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Caddy
04-15-2007, 12:21 AM
I just thought it would be a good idea to make an entirely new thread where the GM's of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers can discuss ideas and get input from the guys who are not participating.

Caddy
04-15-2007, 08:05 AM
Ok guys (etk, Chuck, T24L) we have to cut this down to 53 men and post in the depth chart thread. I reserved us a spot already so we have a spot high up on the page.

Team Roster

QB: Bruce Eugene, Jeff Garcia, Bruce Gradkowski, Luke McCown, Jake Plummer, Chris Simms
RB: Lionel Gates, Earnest Graham, Michael Pittman, Cadillac Williams
FB: Jon Goldsberry, BJ Askew, Mike Alstott
WR: David Boston, Jovon Bouknight, Michael Clayton, Joey Galloway, Chas Gessner, Efrem Hill, Ike Hilliard, Mark Jones, Chad Lucas, Chad Owens, Kyle Smith, Maurice Stovall, Levon Thomas, Paris Warren
TE: Anthony Becht, Alex Smith, TJ Williams, Keith Heinrich
OT: Chris Colmer, Anthony Davis, Donald Penn, Luke Petitgout, Dennis Roland, Jeremy Trueblood
OG: Dan Buenning, Johnathan Clinkscale, Davin Joseph, Matt Lehr
C: John Wade, Nick Milhauser

DE: Charles Bennett, Kevin Carter, Patrick Chukwurah, Julian Jenkins, Simeon Rice, Greg Spires
DT: Jovan Haye, Ellis Wyms, Chris Hovan, Darrell Campbell, Jon Bradley
OLB: Jamie Winborn, Ryan Nece, Cato June, Antoine Cash, Derrick Brooks, Evan Benjamin
MLB: Barrett Ruud, Shelton Quarles
S: Jermaine Phillips, Kalvin Pearson, Donte Nicholson, Tra Boger, Will Allen
CB: Ronde Barber, Juran Bolden, Phillip Buchanon, Torrie Cox, Sammy Davis, Carlos Hendricks, Brian Kelly, Alan Zemaitas

K: Matt Bryant
P: Josh Bidwell
LS: Adam Johnson, Andrew Economos

Tampa 2 4 life
04-15-2007, 11:04 AM
Here's my cut list:
Bruce Eugene
Luke McCown
Lionel Gates
Jon Goldsberry
Jovon Bouknight
Chas Gessner
Efrem Hill
Mark Jones
Chad Lucas
Chad Owens
Kyle Smith
Levon Thomas
Paris Warren
Donald Penn
Dennis Roland
Charles Bennett
Jon Bradley
Evan Benjamin
Carlos Hendricks
Sammy Davis

That would make 58 left. Any idea on who to cut?

etk
04-15-2007, 08:11 PM
I'm just posting here to report. I'll get back later with more in-depth stuff when I have time.

Three Step Drop
04-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Here's my cut list:
Bruce Eugene
Luke McCown
Lionel Gates
Jon Goldsberry
Jovon Bouknight
Chas Gessner
Efrem Hill
Mark Jones
Chad Lucas
Chad Owens
Kyle Smith
Levon Thomas
Paris Warren
Donald Penn
Dennis Roland
Charles Bennett
Jon Bradley
Evan Benjamin
Carlos Hendricks
Sammy Davis

That would make 58 left. Any idea on who to cut?

I think 2 long snappers is a bit of a luxury - sure you can pick one up if you have an injury

Caddy
04-16-2007, 04:37 PM
It's been done and fixed. Johnson failed to make the cut.

etk
04-16-2007, 06:48 PM
My AIM and MSN are attached to my name, so all you guys can contact me there. We have to start brainstorming our plans for not only the 2nd round but the whole draft. We don't want to take a player early on when there is a player we like that we can get later on. We should go over this together with a positional drafting plan.

Caddy
04-16-2007, 08:48 PM
Try adding me on msn, it won't let me add you and my aim isn't working properly

Booger
04-16-2007, 08:51 PM
Okoye over Quinn?

Boooo!

Caddy
04-16-2007, 08:52 PM
Okoye over Quinn?

Boooo!

It was pretty much unanimous

etk
04-16-2007, 08:59 PM
Okoye over Quinn?

Boooo!

Ahh I just had my first laugh of the day.

It's not like we even took Okoye over Quinn. Quinn isn't even part of the discussion or a possibility, so we didn't take anyone over him. We simply didn't take him, there was no choice or decision.

Tampa 2 4 life
04-16-2007, 09:00 PM
Okoye over Quinn?

Boooo!

I really have nothing to say to this.

Chucky
04-16-2007, 09:13 PM
It was pretty much unanimous

I was never really consulted, and i was the original GM

etk
04-16-2007, 09:14 PM
I was never really consulted, and i was the original GM

Get an AIM account and join our discussion!!

Caddy
04-16-2007, 09:21 PM
My AIM is stuffing up again..Can you guys reinvite me

etk
04-16-2007, 09:22 PM
My AIM is stuffing up again..Can you guys reinvite me

Your comp rejected it...

Caddy
04-16-2007, 09:24 PM
Your comp rejected it...

I know..I'm not sure what is going on

Merlin
04-16-2007, 10:22 PM
It's computer karma for not even "discussing" Brady Quinn.....lols
and Chucky wasn't even consulted, sounds like "our" war-room is in disarray?

Caddy
04-17-2007, 02:11 AM
It's computer karma for not even "discussing" Brady Quinn.....lols
and Chucky wasn't even consulted, sounds like "our" war-room is in disarray?

If the Buccaneers pick Brady Quinn in real life I will personally kick Bruce Allen in the genitals.

Merlin
04-17-2007, 05:26 AM
If the Buccaneers pick Brady Quinn in real life I will personally kick Bruce Allen in the genitals.LMFAO.....

Booger
04-17-2007, 02:07 PM
If the Buccaneers pick Brady Quinn in real life I will personally kick Bruce Allen in the genitals.

Since we all like to put way too much stock in Draft rumours:

Per NFL Draft Blitz:

- Speaking of Quinn, we're being told that it's likely that he would be selected by the Tampa Bay Bucs should he make it to the fourth pick and Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson having already been selected.

If Gruden (the QB guru) sees Quinn as a good enough player to take #4 overall, I would support the pick completely. Trade Simms for a late second/early 3rd, and still take 3 or 4 defensive players on day 1.

Caddy
04-17-2007, 06:27 PM
Since we all like to put way too much stock in Draft rumours:

Per NFL Draft Blitz:

- Speaking of Quinn, we're being told that it's likely that he would be selected by the Tampa Bay Bucs should he make it to the fourth pick and Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson having already been selected.

If Gruden (the QB guru) sees Quinn as a good enough player to take #4 overall, I would support the pick completely. Trade Simms for a late second/early 3rd, and still take 3 or 4 defensive players on day 1.

Like I said, my foot to Allen's genitals.

etk
04-18-2007, 12:32 AM
Like I said, my foot to Allen's genitals.

I'll pin him down and you can gas pedal him!

Tampa 2 4 life
04-18-2007, 09:52 AM
I'll pin him down and you can gas pedal him!

Can I kick him in the face a couple of times???

Merlin
04-18-2007, 02:57 PM
You guys could car share and save a few dollars as well....lols

Chucky
04-18-2007, 03:30 PM
that trade turned out so well for us, we still got kalil, who we wanted at 35

Booger
04-18-2007, 04:30 PM
While I dont love either of your first two picks, it all starts in the trenches, and Okoye/Kalil would be huge for the future.

etk
04-18-2007, 04:32 PM
Kalil is worthless if he's not snapping the ball to Quinn ;)

Caddy
04-18-2007, 05:05 PM
*Applaudes Chucky & 24cadillac24* for working out such a beneficial trade ;)

Booger
04-18-2007, 05:07 PM
Kalil is worthless if he's not snapping the ball to Quinn ;)

Im just giving you a hard time cause I know how much you love Quinn.

Booger
04-18-2007, 10:37 PM
You guys are up in two picks. I like Ray McDonald or Tanard Jackson

etk
04-18-2007, 10:39 PM
You guys are up in two picks. I like Ray McDonald or Tanard Jackson


I like a certain trade scenario, but my CoGMs think otherwise. I like McDonald but we got Okoye. We don't need a CB this early.

Caddy
04-19-2007, 05:29 AM
I like a certain trade scenario, but my CoGMs think otherwise. I like McDonald but we got Okoye. We don't need a CB this early.

One could argue that Tanard Jackson could be moved to safety.

Merlin
04-19-2007, 06:35 AM
Where can I veiw the comings and goings of this draft?

Caddy
04-19-2007, 06:46 AM
right here big fella

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=72

Booger
04-19-2007, 09:25 AM
I like a certain trade scenario, but my CoGMs think otherwise. I like McDonald but we got Okoye. We don't need a CB this early.

McDonald could certainly project to DE, and would provide solid depth.

I like Jackson as a safety as well.

etk
04-19-2007, 09:52 AM
McDonald could certainly project to DE, and would provide solid depth.

I like Jackson as a safety as well.

We have Greg Spires and Kevin Carter, both similar style defensive ends. We don't have room for 3 run stopping DEs, we need a speed rusher to replace Rice. McDonald literally makes no sense if we get Okoye, sorry.

Caddy
04-19-2007, 09:53 AM
We have Greg Spires and Kevin Carter, both similar style defensive ends. We don't have room for 3 run stopping DEs, we need a speed rusher to replace Rice. McDonald literally makes no sense if we get Okoye, sorry.

Which we can get if you look in your inbox :)

Booger
04-19-2007, 11:59 AM
We have Greg Spires and Kevin Carter, both similar style defensive ends. We don't have room for 3 run stopping DEs, we need a speed rusher to replace Rice. McDonald literally makes no sense if we get Okoye, sorry.

I forgot that Spires and Carter are young up and coming players.

The need to replace Spires/Carter is just as big as the need to replace Rice. You expect that a player taken #64 overall should have an immediate place to start?

Merlin
04-19-2007, 01:54 PM
right here big fella

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=72Cheers Aus, your a gent. ;- )

For what it's worth, I agree with Etk concerning McDonald, how about Tim Crowder from Texas?

He was top 10 (at least) in nearly evey drill at the combine, he would still need some work on his pass rushing technique, but he has the tools and is a character athelete, I'd love him on the Bucs.

ks_perfection
04-19-2007, 03:38 PM
Nice Carolina trade :)

etk
04-19-2007, 03:38 PM
I forgot that Spires and Carter are young up and coming players.

The need to replace Spires/Carter is just as big as the need to replace Rice. You expect that a player taken #64 overall should have an immediate place to start?

We can't afford to have a 290+ lb DE in a Tampa 2, sorry. Rice's contract expires after the season and he is coming off an injury. We have no adequate replacements for him that can rush the passer, and McDonald would not fit the bill.

To answer Merlin, yes Crowder would be a good fit as he can play either side and provide solid depth at the very least, but he's long gone. Abi, Crowder & Moses all went right before us, thus putting us in a deep hole.

Tampa 2 4 life
04-19-2007, 04:43 PM
Right now my pick is:
Aundrae Allison
Edit: Oh....We traded that pick...Good trade though.
Edit 2: I would still pick Allison if he's there with our first Third Rounder.

Merlin
04-19-2007, 10:34 PM
To answer Merlin, yes Crowder would be a good fit as he can play either side and provide solid depth at the very least, but he's long gone. Abi, Crowder & Moses all went right before us, thus putting us in a deep hole.In my defence, when I posted Crowder was still on the board ;-)

I'm sorry guys, but I think you blew it with the Kalil pick? theirs plenty of depth at C, and with reports of Buenning in camp, we could have waited, it doesn't matter who we have at S, if we can't pressure the QB.

If we had taken care of the front-four earlier on, I wouldn't have a problem with Wendling, but as things stand, Jeesh?.

And WTF are we doing selecting Jacoby Jones in the third?...holy ****!

etk
04-19-2007, 10:41 PM
In my defence, when I posted Crowder was still on the board ;-)

I'm sorry guys, but I think you blew it with the Kalil pick? theirs plenty of depth at C, and with reports of Buenning in camp, we could have waited, it doesn't matter who we have at S, if we can't pressure the QB.

If we had taken care of the front-four earlier on, I wouldn't have a problem with Wendling, but as things stand, Jeesh?.

And WTF are we doing selecting Jacoby Jones in the third?...holy ****!

Crowder was long gone when you posted. We got tremendous value with all of our picks and filled all of our needs with many picks left. We traded down and still got he guy we wanted (Kalil). We were able to trade down, get J. Thomas and still get the guy we wanted in Wendling. We got a steal in Jacoby Jones, we needed a WR. We are not done addressing the DE position either. All of our picks and moves were made on a consensus, so obviously we all agree that we have done a great job and you don't really understand Forum Mocks.

Caddy
04-19-2007, 11:41 PM
Crowder was long gone when you posted. We got tremendous value with all of our picks and filled all of our needs with many picks left. We traded down and still got he guy we wanted (Kalil). We were able to trade down, get J. Thomas and still get the guy we wanted in Wendling. We got a steal in Jacoby Jones, we needed a WR. We are not done addressing the DE position either. All of our picks and moves were made on a consensus, so obviously we all agree that we have done a great job and you don't really understand Forum Mocks.

I think his decision is based more on opinion than it is on facts. We have addressed the trenches which is crucial and with UT being arguably the most important position of a Cover 2 defense, we took the best available player. We could have taken Adams with our first pick, but that would leave us with possibly Brandon Mebane or worse.

Merlin
04-20-2007, 04:30 AM
Crowder was long gone when you posted. We got tremendous value with all of our picks and filled all of our needs with many picks left. We traded down and still got he guy we wanted (Kalil). We were able to trade down, get J. Thomas and still get the guy we wanted in Wendling. We got a steal in Jacoby Jones, we needed a WR. We are not done addressing the DE position either. All of our picks and moves were made on a consensus, so obviously we all agree that we have done a great job and you don't really understand Forum Mocks.If?.....that was the case with Crowder, then I appologise, actually no I don't!

When I looked at the list on page 1 of the Draft selection thread, Denver was next up with pick 56, maybe it hadn't been updated? as for understanding Forum Mocks, I guess I don't, however I'm not following the comings and goings as closely as I could, so I'll put my hand up.

Outstanding value, am I missing something? I don't know what you got for the Philly trade? trade down to get Thomas...I'm lost? as for Jacoby Jones, I'm stunned, why the hell are you so high on a 6'2 - 210 - 4.5 (combine) he runs poor routes to boot.

Caddy
04-20-2007, 05:43 AM
If?.....that was the case with Crowder, then I appologise, actually no I don't!

When I looked at the list on page 1 of the Draft selection thread, Denver was next up with pick 56, maybe it hadn't been updated? as for understanding Forum Mocks, I guess I don't, however I'm not following the comings and goings as closely as I could, so I'll put my hand up.

Outstanding value, am I missing something? I don't know what you got for the Philly trade? trade down to get Thomas...I'm lost? as for Jacoby Jones, I'm stunned, why the hell are you so high on a 6'2 - 210 - 4.5 (combine) he runs poor routes to boot.

The reason you are lost is because you don't understand the comings and goings of a forum mock.

Merlin
04-20-2007, 06:17 AM
The reason you are lost is because you don't understand the comings and goings of a forum mock.Obviously not then...lols, please feel free to bring me upto speed, what trades have we made and who have we picked etc, I'm all ears.

I see we picked up the 90th pick from Philly, Bazuin is slightly undersized and will need to polish up his run defense IMO, but he should be a solid situational pass rusher for the time being.

Caddy
04-20-2007, 08:49 AM
Obviously not then...lols, please feel free to bring me upto speed, what trades have we made and who have we picked etc, I'm all ears.

I see we picked up the 90th pick from Philly, Bazuin is slightly undersized and will need to polish up his run defense IMO, but he should be a solid situational pass rusher for the time being.

I'm not talking specifics, I am talking forum mocks in general. They are unrealistic with numerous trades involving draft picks and players which wouldn't happen in real life.

We've boostered our D-line with situational pass rusher Juqua Thomas, added a sleeper at WR in Jones, taken our center of the future in Kalil, an amazing prospect in DT, a playmaking safety in Wendling and a developmental project at DE in Bazuin.

There are some things that obviously didn't go our way (CJ anyone), but we have done a quality job with what has been made available.

Booger
04-20-2007, 10:11 AM
so obviously we all agree that we have done a great job and you don't really understand Forum Mocks.

Wow, a little sensitive about the criticism of your draft?

Here is my Day 1 draft review:

1 (4). Okoye (C+) - I would personally select Quinn or Adams ahead of Okoye, but I know how you guys feel about both of those players. I see Okoye as a reach, but nobody can argue his potential or the value of an UT on this team. Bottom line is that at #4 you need to pick an elite prospect, and you did not.

2 (45). Kalil (B-) - Kalil provides A+ value at pick #45, but with Buenning healthy and ready to play centre, Kalil is no longer a need. Buenning was our best OL two seasons ago, and has a huge future.

3 (68). Wendling (B+) - solid player at a major position of need. I personally like Tanard Jackson a lot better, but still a good pick.

3 (83). Jones (C) - Jones does nothing for me, and I would be surprised if he could even make the active roster ahead of guys like Warren or Boston.

3 (90). Dan Bazuin (B+) - I like "Buzz", and he provides good value at pick 90. But I still cant believe that you passed on Spencer at pick 35.

Overall (C+) - Kalil provides the best value, but selecting him over a DE didnt make any sense to me. While Bazuin and Juqua Thomas improve our DE situation, they dont make up for passing on guys like Spencer, Johnson, Abiamiri, or Crowder in round 2.

Merlin
04-20-2007, 12:42 PM
I'm not talking specifics, I am talking forum mocks in general. They are unrealistic with numerous trades involving draft picks and players which wouldn't happen in real life.

We've boostered our D-line with situational pass rusher Juqua Thomas, added a sleeper at WR in Jones, taken our center of the future in Kalil, an amazing prospect in DT, a playmaking safety in Wendling and a developmental project at DE in Bazuin.

There are some things that obviously didn't go our way (CJ anyone), but we have done a quality job with what has been made available.I appreciate your comments on forum mocks Aus, and I agree they are just a bit of fun, but I think Booger has pretty much nailed "our" draft.

I like Okoye as much as the next guy, but I completely agree with Booger's comments about this pick.

Having picked Okoye, this is where we needed to address our DE situation, we had the opportunity but failed miserably IMO.
As I already pointed out Buenning is making all the snaps in camp, and the draft is loaded with quality C's, admittedly Kalil is top prospect, but we really could and should of picked one lower down, this was an awful pick.

I can't bemoan Wendling, S is a need, and if we had taken a DE in Rd 2, I would be patting you guys on the back for this pick, but like I said, it doesn't matter who we have at S if we can't pressure the QB.

Why the hell are "we" picking "a sleeper" in the 3rd?....I'm dumbstruck by this pick.....lost for words? I hate it!

As for Thomas, he did record 6 sacks last year, but he only has a total of 11 in his 7 year career, to then to go and pick another situational pass-rushing DE, especially after we got Patrick Chukwurah in the off-season, I mean how many "situational" DE's do we need? that said he has potential.

(C -)

etk
04-20-2007, 01:42 PM
I see no reason to move Dan Buenning from LG, the position he played as a rookie when he was our best lineman. Kalil, Buenning & Joseph is an exciting young group of interior linemen. As far as Jacoby Jones goes: we needed a WR, and if we didn't take him there was no one left that really satisfies. Galloway is old and an injury-risk, Clayton is another injury risk and inconsistent, and behind them the only sure bet to make the roster is Stovall. Jacoby Jones has size and speed, which is what Gruden looks for in his receivers. I understand the criticism of passing up a DE, it was a difficult decision but we made it knowing that we could still get Bazuin and make trades. We're happy with Bazuin so passing up a DE was a bit easier, whereas passing up Jacoby could have been brutal because the talent dropoff.

I think 24cadillac24 called him a sleeper because you guys don't appreciate his talent, not because that's his value.

I'm also really excited about John Wendling because he is a dynamic athlete and can play both positions. Right now he is at FS but that could change with plenty of other guys still on the board. I love flexibility.

-black
04-20-2007, 02:18 PM
when is the GM Mock draft?

Tampa 2 4 life
04-20-2007, 02:39 PM
Okay, The pick in the fourth. My first choice would be a guy who I'm always really high on.

Stephen Nicholas LB USF

Caddy
04-20-2007, 06:22 PM
when is the GM Mock draft?

It started days ago

SeanTaylorRIP
04-20-2007, 06:25 PM
6th-7th round you have to take Marcus Hamilton, learn under his mentor Ronde Barber they are such similar players.

Caddy
04-20-2007, 06:27 PM
If you honestly believe that Dan Buenning is the answer at center then you have a problem. He has little to no experience at center and we had the chance to grab a potential first round center in the middle of the 2nd round.

Caddy
04-20-2007, 06:31 PM
This just posted in the Draft forum under "Winners and Losers of the draft". Surprising for some, not surprising for others was we fell in the top 5 in the winners category.


Winners


Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Simply a great day. Having 5 1st day picks helps, but all were put to good use. Okoye and Bazuin are both fantastic fits for that defense, and Wendling could provide a Lynch-esque presence in the secondary. Add in the stealing of Kalil at #45 and a nice pickup in Jones, and you got a great 1st day.

etk
04-20-2007, 07:04 PM
6th-7th round you have to take Marcus Hamilton, learn under his mentor Ronde Barber they are such similar players.

We'll definitely look into it.

Thank you Caddy, I couldn't agree more about Buenning. If we didn't get Kalil and Buenning was playing C, we would have Davis at LG (new position) and Buenning at C (new position). Neither guy is better than above-average either so that would be taking a step backwards IMO.

Read the winners post Merlin.....

-black
04-20-2007, 07:13 PM
im late as heck smh

-black
04-20-2007, 07:28 PM
This just posted in the Draft forum under "Winners and Losers of the draft". Surprising for some, not surprising for others was we fell in the top 5 in the winners category.

where is the winners and losers thread at?

Merlin
04-21-2007, 03:24 AM
WHOA...take it easy gent's, don't shoot the messenger, it's the Tampa Bay coaching staff who have had Buenning playing at C, not me...lols, with Peti at LT, maybe they have the idea that Davis will move back inside to LG, I'm sure they have a plan, so relax.

With this in mind (as things currently stand) I just think Kalil was a poorly thought out pick, I won't list my reasons again though.

As for Jones, what talant are you talking about etk? his 4.5 at the combine, his poor route running, or his questionable character? ST talant at best IMO.
You guys even passed on Johnnie Lee Higgins, or how about Mike Walker another guy who had a great combine to back up his production at UCF?

I'm not argueing WR is a need, just your choice of player???

Who's Paraniodmoonduck anyway?

Merlin
04-21-2007, 03:26 AM
where is the winners and losers thread at?

I couldn't find the original post, but here's a copy.

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck
It's April 20th, you gotta give me a break. But since the people are insisting (and that time of the day) has not yet approached on the west coast, I'll go for it. Keep in mind these are just the top 5 and bottom 5, and since most everyone has drafted well, some got named losers simply because I had to name someone. Please don't get all butthurt. These are not in order.

Winners

Washington Redskins - Just a magnificent job not only adding players and picks, but putting those picks to great use. Abiamiri, Beekman and Crosby were all great values where they were selected and the players traded for are a huge addition to the team's short and long term future.

Detroit Lions - Despite trading down for quite cheap in the 1st, the Lions got a great steal in Quinn and then proceeded to have a wonderful 1st day. Weddle and Moss are very nice fits for the Tampa 2, and DeOssie, although a bit of a reach, was a perfectly fine pick.

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Simply a great day. Having 5 1st day picks helps, but all were put to good use. Okoye and Bazuin are both fantastic fits for that defense, and Wendling could provide a Lynch-esque presence in the secondary. Add in the stealing of Kalil at #45 and a nice pickup in Jones, and you got a great 1st day.

New England Patriots - The Pats managed to acquire the sensational Patrick Willis, who should be a force on that defense, deal away malcontent Asante Samuel, pick up both rookie Aaron Ross and veteran Shawn Springs to fortify their secondary, and managed to get a possible steal in Michael Bush. A very nice job overall.

Oakland Raiders - I hope this isn't presumptuous. Oakland managed to get the top player in the draft in Johnson, got a great value trading up for Staley in the late 1st, plucked Pitcock at the start of the 3rd round and managed to add a real power back in Hunt with the last pick of the 1st day.

Honorable Mentions: Minnesota, Cleveland, Atlanta, Tennessee


Losers

San Francisco 49ers - The Niners seemed to fail to get good value at almost all their picks. Nelson at #11 was a baffling move, and the Niners failed to address their defensive line issue until very late in the 3rd. My personal distaste for both Nelson and Rice colors this, but I think they had one of the weaker draft.

Houston Texans - Obviously hindered by having only 2 1st day picks, the Texans picked a very poor fit for their offense in Levi Brown and then made a decent selection in Tanard Jackson, although the switch to safety will likely be a bit rough and won't yield immediate returns.

Indianapolis Colts - Although their team is good enough to withstand a poor draft, it sure doesn't help. Dave Harris appears to be a very poor fit in a role that will require more coverage skills than he has, Mansfield Wrotto is a major project who likely could have been taken later on, and Paul Williams is a great athlete who has yet to learn how to be even a good receiver.

St. Louis Rams - A tough call, but the Rams possibly reached on a questionable player in Branch, selected a poor fit in Daymeion Hughes, and made a wholly underwhelming pick in Marshal Yanda. Didn't do a whole lot to help their current team and the group is lacking in overall potential.

San Diego Chargers - Although an average draft overall, San Diego makes the list for two very questionable moves. The first, selecting Marcus McCauley with the intent of moving him to safety, something he is most unfit for, was confusing, especially with players like Weddle on the board. The second, taking TE Scott Chandler with the 97th pick, seemed utterly pointless.

Unhonorable Mentions: None

This was really hard to do, everyone had a pretty solid 1st day.

Merlin
04-21-2007, 03:46 AM
For what it's worth, players who I haven't seen drafted yet who I like.

LB - Antwan Barnes - Florida International
6-0.5 240...Barnes put on a show at the combine and probably had Scouts and NFL teams scrambling for tape of him, he displayed a great combination of speed and strength he ran a super fast 4.46 forty at 240 pounds and recorded 31 reps at 225 pouinds on the bench, he then topped it off with a solid workout displaying quick feet, balance and explosiveness, his 10 yd time was an outstanding 1.50 and a 35" vertical and 10-2" broad jump was also impressive, he played both the OLB and DE positions at FIU but his transition to a LB'er position at the next level will likely take time, IMO, some NFL team will likely take a chance on Barnes possibly as early as the 3rd round.

TE - Kevin Boss - Western Oregon
6-6.4 252 Since Antonio Gates came into the league NFL scouts have been on the look out for basketball players who they feel can make the transition to TE in the league...well they might have found one, Kevis Boss was a multi-sport athlete at W. Oregon playing both TE on the football team and forward on the basketball team, he played both sports in 2004 and in 2005 but just football in 2006 because his season was cut short after 6 games due to a torn labrum in his shoulder, Kevin's stock must be rising up the charts since the Combine, when NFL personnel found out just how athletically talented he is, he didn't perform on the bench (because of his shoulder) but was able to run a 4.78 forty, record a 35" vertical, a 9-8" broad jump, a 4.41 short shuttle and had the best 3 cone of ALL the TE's at 6.96 which is amazing for his size, at his pro day he ran a faster forty time of 4.71 and was able to bench 15 at 225 which was less than his personal best of 21 because his shoulder is still in recovery stage (not 100% strength-wise) he also turned in an outstanding performance in his position drill displaying athleticism, soft hands and polished route-running ability, IMO, he'd be a possible steal in rd5.

CB - Usama Young - Kent State
5-11 196 Usama didn't receive an invitation to the Combine but made the most of his chance to impress the Scouts and NFL teams at his pro day workout, Young ran a pair of blazing fast forty times being clocked at 4.38 and 4.39 and wasn't finished there, he continued to impress the Scouts in attendance with a 43" vertical jump, a 10-11" broad jump, a 6.65 three cone and a 4.34 short shuttle, he recorded 15 reps at 225 on the bench and was timed in the long shuttle at 11.98 which was faster then any DB at the Combine, Young was a three year starter at Kent and had 26 career starts in the MAC, he recorded 60 tackles with 2 int's in 2006 and was named to the All-MAC 2nd team as a CB in 2006, Rumour has it that he's gone from an undrafted priority free agent to a possible 4th round pick in the up-coming Draft with the Chiefs, Bengals, Jaguars and Buccaneers showing the most interest in his services.

Caddy
04-21-2007, 04:17 AM
Who's Paraniodmoonduck anyway?

A respected poster with an unbiased opinion on the drafts of each respective team.

-black
04-21-2007, 08:44 AM
I dont think I have any say or whatever, but I also dont like the pick of Jones

hopefully we got after Bobby McCracy who is a FA for the Jags now :)

etk
04-21-2007, 09:04 AM
Who gives a **** what his combine time was. Jacoby Jones has speed and everyone knows that. What character problems? In PFW he's described as having "high character" and "good work ethic". The only negative I see on him is his small hands, but he has long arms to combat that.

IMO you know absolutely nothing about Jones or Kalil for that matter, and I couldn't care a less about your opinion because you have just proven how worthless it is. Ryan Kalil is an elite C prospect and that is a position of need. John Wade absolutely stinks and Dan Buenning would be new to the position. Kalil was the best lineman on a terrific pro-style offense, he's athletic and he's one of the best technicians ever to come out on the OLine, period. He's steady and consistent and has improved his strength, what more do you want? Everyone commended that pick because of the value and the fact that we traded down and still got him. What's your beef? That we didn't take a mediocre DE instead when the value was poor, please.

Booger
04-21-2007, 09:43 AM
IMO you know absolutely nothing about Jones or Kalil for that matter, and I couldn't care a less about your opinion because you have just proven how worthless it is.

What's your beef? That we didn't take a mediocre DE instead when the value was poor, please.


Come on man, quit being so defensive. I love how somebody's positive opinion of your mock draft is taken as gospel, but somebody else's criticism is worthless.

The bottom line is that you took a centre, which isnt really a need anymore with Wade, Buenning, and Lehr potentially playing the position. Our biggest need was a pass rushing DE, and you passed on some of the best in the draft. Anthony Spencer is hardly a "mediocre DE".

-black
04-21-2007, 09:48 AM
if we took a center and then signed Bobby McCracy (hypathetically) would you like the pick more Booger?

etk
04-21-2007, 10:11 AM
Come on man, quit being so defensive. I love how somebody's positive opinion of your mock draft is taken as gospel, but somebody else's criticism is worthless.

The bottom line is that you took a centre, which isnt really a need anymore with Wade, Buenning, and Lehr potentially playing the position. Our biggest need was a pass rushing DE, and you passed on some of the best in the draft. Anthony Spencer is hardly a "mediocre DE".

The fact is that we got Kalil knowing that we could get Dan Bazuin and Juqua Thomas down the road. Juqua Thomas is an explosive pass rusher that can put up at least 8 sacks lining up opposite Rice on passing downs. Dan Bazuin put up 74 tackles, 26.5 TFLs & 16 sacks in 11 games as a junior. Let's compare that to the other DEs available:

Abiamiri: 8 sacks in 12 games
Crowder: 3 sacks in 13 games
Spencer: 3 sacks in 11 games
Johnson: 9.5 in 13 games
Woodley: 7 sacks in 11 games

Bazuin dwarfs the other DEs as far as production goes, and at almost 6'3" 266 he is perfectly sized for our defense. His combine numbers were disappointing but we see him as another Aaron Kampman. Instinctive, smart, savvy and a leader.

In the words of PFW: "Bazuin is best when he is playing in gaps, slanting and angling and would be best in a fast-flowing scheme like that of the Colts, Eagles, Bears or Buccaneers.

The gap between those aforementioned DEs and Bazuin is very small IMO, but the gap between Kalil & Satele/Datish is immense. Kalil & Bazuin>Satele & Spencer. Satele wouldn't even have been available with the pick we used to take Bazuin, so it would've cost us another player at a different position to get him anyway. We needed a C no matter what because Wade is old and mediocre, and Lehr is not the depth we're looking for. Buenning will compete with Davis at LG, so he doesn't count here.

Booger
04-21-2007, 10:23 AM
I like Bazuin, but give me a break on the statistical comparison. Comparing a guy's production from Central Michigan is like saying Damon Allen is the greatest QB of all time because of the numbers he put up in the CFL.

Spencer: 93 tackles, 26.5 for a loss, and 10.5 sacks against real competition

If you guys feel like centre is that big of a need, then you drafted a tremendous player in Kalil. I cant argue his value at pick #45.

Personally, I actually like Spencer/Satele over Kalil/Bazuin.

Merlin
04-21-2007, 10:46 AM
Who gives a **** what his combine time was. Jacoby Jones has speed and everyone knows that. What character problems? In PFW he's described as having "high character" and "good work ethic". The only negative I see on him is his small hands, but he has long arms to combat that.

IMO you know absolutely nothing about Jones or Kalil for that matter, and I couldn't care a less about your opinion because you have just proven how worthless it is. Ryan Kalil is an elite C prospect and that is a position of need. John Wade absolutely stinks and Dan Buenning would be new to the position. Kalil was the best lineman on a terrific pro-style offense, he's athletic and he's one of the best technicians ever to come out on the OLine, period. He's steady and consistent and has improved his strength, what more do you want? Everyone commended that pick because of the value and the fact that we traded down and still got him. What's your beef? That we didn't take a mediocre DE instead when the value was poor, please.WOW!!!
If I thought your opinion was worth a ****, I'd be pretty upset right now....lols, lucky for me then that I don't.

I've already said Kalil is the top prospect for his position, but, like Booger I would have prefered Spencer/Satele over Kalil/Bazuin, I've already pointed out that it's the Bucs current coaching staff who have moved Buenning...not me, maybe if Kalil is available next weekend, we might see him in a Bucs uni, who know's?, I just don't like your selections as things stand, I doubt anyone will be losing sleep over it, you and I included, so get over yourself...lols

IMO, Kalil will be best suited in a zone blocking scheme anyway, which I don't believe we use, however I'm sure he could do a job for the Bucs.

As for Jones, lets wait and see who gets selected first, Jones, Higgins or Walker, IMO both the latter will go earlier.

Merlin
04-21-2007, 10:49 AM
A respected poster with an unbiased opinion on the drafts of each respective team.I respect you and your posts Aus, but even PMD, says under the 9er's, "My personal distaste for both Nelson and Rice colors this",......hardly unbiased mate.

Booger
04-21-2007, 10:56 AM
With the benefit of knowing where everybody got drafted I would have done the following:

1(4) QB Brady Quinn
2(35) DE Anthony Spencer
2 (64) CB/S Tanard Jackson
3 (68) DE/DT Ray McDonald
4(102) S Sabby Piscitelli

Im not saying that it is any better or worse than what you guys did, but I like it a lot more.

Merlin
04-21-2007, 11:04 AM
Abiamiri: 8 sacks in 12 games
Crowder: 3 sacks in 13 games
Spencer: 3 sacks in 11 games
Johnson: 9.5 in 13 games
Woodley: 7 sacks in 11 games
As I've already pointed out, Thomas has only registered 11 sacks in 7 YEARS! and if he's that good, why did you go and select Bazuin?
We already picked up Chukwurah in the off-season, so I'll ask again, how many situational DE's do we need?...lols

etk
04-21-2007, 12:04 PM
With the benefit of knowing where everybody got drafted I would have done the following:

1(4) QB Brady Quinn
2(35) DE Anthony Spencer
2 (64) CB/S Tanard Jackson
3 (68) DE/DT Ray McDonald
4(102) S Sabby Piscitelli

Im not saying that it is any better or worse than what you guys did, but I like it a lot more.

Replace Quinn with Okoye and Piscitelli with anyone. We have not only drafted great players but we also acquired additional picks and players.

etk
04-21-2007, 12:07 PM
As I've already pointed out, Thomas has only registered 11 sacks in 7 YEARS! and if he's that good, why did you go and select Bazuin?
We already picked up Chukwurah in the off-season, so I'll ask again, how many situational DE's do we need?...lols

Chukwurah is a special teamer and a worthless pass rusher. I selected Bazuin because Thomas will never be a starter because of his size, but Bazuin has the potential to be like Aaron Kampman or Kyle Vanden Bosch. We need a future starter at DE and Bazuin can replace Spires or Rice. We need more speed on our defense, is that a problem for you? Do you want a bunch of oversized and slow DEs?

Merlin
04-21-2007, 12:49 PM
Chukwurah is a special teamer and a worthless pass rusher. I selected Bazuin because Thomas will never be a starter because of his size, but Bazuin has the potential to be like Aaron Kampman or Kyle Vanden Bosch. We need a future starter at DE and Bazuin can replace Spires or Rice. We need more speed on our defense, is that a problem for you? Do you want a bunch of oversized and slow DEs?Well we agree on something then, I have already said Bazuin has potential, but he still needs alot of work before he can be named alongside Kampman and Vaden Bosch.

As for the additional players and picks, I'd take quality over quantity any day of the week, as I'm sure we all would.

So who are you guys targeting next? do any of the players I mentioned have a chance?
(Barnes/Boss/Young)

etk
04-21-2007, 01:00 PM
We're definitely not taking a TE, but Barnes is good value although we don't really have room for him. I don't know who Young is, so maybe you can enlighten me. We got the additional picks not because we needed them, but rather because we wanted quality and value with our picks. The guys we were targeting were available in our trade downs, so we got the quality we wanted and quantity on top. I wish we would've traded down to get Okoye, but I wasn't online when the pick was made so I don't know what went down. That's the only pick where the value was disappointing.

As far as your earlier statement goes, I will bet any amount of money that Jacoby Jones goes well ahead of Higgins and that other guy (Walker?). Higgins is undersized and slow, no thanks. Jones is big, fast and adjusts well to the deep ball. He also posted the longest broad jump out of all the WRs. He's the perfect fit for Gruden's offense as long as he consistently catches the ball, which I think he will in time.

Tampa 2 4 life
04-21-2007, 01:01 PM
1(4) QB Brady Quinn
2(35) DE Anthony Spencer
2 (64) CB/S Tanard Jackson
3 (68) DE/DT Ray McDonald
4(102) S Sabby Piscitelli


1: Simms had an injured offense to work with. He'll be back in 2005 form next year.
2a: Don't disagree, but Petitgout-Buenning-Kalil-Joseph-Trueblood sounds like a D*** fine offensive line to me.
2b: I like Rouse better.
3: Day one is too early for him.
4: We don't need to replace both safeties.

etk
04-21-2007, 01:07 PM
1: Simms had an injured offense to work with. He'll be back in 2005 form next year.
2a: Don't disagree, but Petitgout-Buenning-Kalil-Joseph-Trueblood sounds like a D*** fine offensive line to me.
2b: I like Rouse better.
3: Day one is too early for him.
4: We don't need to replace both safeties.
1. Agree
2a. Agree
2b: Disagree, we need a FS more than a SS
3. Disagree, McDonald is the 3rd best UT prospect in the draft.
4. Partially true, but we might be doing that soon :)

Merlin
04-21-2007, 01:12 PM
We're definitely not taking a TE, but Barnes is good value although we don't really have room for him. I don't know who Young is, so maybe you can enlighten me. We got the additional picks not because we needed them, but rather because we wanted quality and value with our picks. The guys we were targeting were available in our trade downs, so we got the quality we wanted and quantity on top. I wish we would've traded down to get Okoye, but I wasn't online when the pick was made so I don't know what went down. That's the only pick where the value was disappointing.

As far as your earlier statement goes, I will bet any amount of money that Jacoby Jones goes well ahead of Higgins and that other guy (Walker?). Higgins is undersized and slow, no thanks. Jones is big, fast and adjusts well to the deep ball. He also posted the longest broad jump out of all the WRs. He's the perfect fit for Gruden's offense as long as he consistently catches the ball, which I think he will in time.
I understand what your saying about Barnes, and I would add he still needs some work, but with Brooks closing in on the end of his career, now might be the time to coach up a possible replacement, he's a fantastic athelete.

As for Young.

CB - Usama Young - Kent State
5-11 196 Usama didn't receive an invitation to the Combine but made the most of his chance to impress the Scouts and NFL teams at his pro day workout, Young ran a pair of blazing fast forty times being clocked at 4.38 and 4.39 and wasn't finished there, he continued to impress the Scouts in attendance with a 43" vertical jump, a 10-11" broad jump, a 6.65 three cone and a 4.34 short shuttle, he recorded 15 reps at 225 on the bench and was timed in the long shuttle at 11.98 which was faster then any DB at the Combine, Young was a three year starter at Kent and had 26 career starts in the MAC, he recorded 60 tackles with 2 int's in 2006 and was named to the All-MAC 2nd team as a CB in 2006, Rumour has it that he's gone from an undrafted priority free agent to a possible 4th round pick in the up-coming Draft with the Chiefs, Bengals, Jaguars and Buccaneers showing the most interest in his services.

As for Jones, let's have a sportsman's bet, if Jones go's before Higgins (and deleated) or Walker, I'll make up and use, a sig singing your praises for a month, something along the lines of, "etk knows more about football than me", and if I'm right, you do the same for me, what do you say, up for a gamble?

etk
04-21-2007, 01:23 PM
As for Jones, let's have a sportsman's bet, if Jones go's before Higgins and Walker, I'll make up and use, a sig singing your praises for a month, something along the lines of, "etk knows more about football than me", and if I'm right, you do the same for me, what do you say, up for a gamble?

I like what I saw about Young, he's a possibility as we haven't taken a CB yet. I'm definitely up for that "gamble" bet.

-black
04-21-2007, 01:33 PM
lol its funny reading and watching this play out


but regardless of 40 time, Higgans is not slow

Merlin
04-21-2007, 01:35 PM
I like what I saw about Young, he's a possibility as we haven't taken a CB yet. I'm definitely up for that "gamble" bet.

Excellent, it will add some spice and a giggle to draft day, I have noticed I put "and" between Higgins - Walker, would you be confident enough to allow me to use "or" instead?

etk
04-21-2007, 01:39 PM
Excellent, it will add some spice and a giggle to draft day, I have noticed I put "and" between Higgins - Walker, would you be confident enough to allow me to use "or" instead?

Absolutely. I know for a fact that Higgins will go behind Jones, it's Walker I'm worried about. I didn't realize how productive and fast he was, so it should be exciting!

Merlin
04-21-2007, 01:42 PM
Absolutely. I know for a fact that Higgins will go behind Jones, it's Walker I'm worried about. I didn't realize how productive and fast he was, so it should be exciting!Cool, should be fun ;- )....in a slightly nervous way...lols

etk
04-21-2007, 02:23 PM
Cool, should be fun ;- )....in a slightly nervous way...lols

lol, I'm fine with a "Merlin knows more football than me", in my sig. I'll post the quote in front of it too. Most people will be like "who's Merlin"?

Merlin
04-21-2007, 04:37 PM
lol, I'm fine with a "Merlin knows more football than me", in my sig. I'll post the quote in front of it too. Most people will be like "who's Merlin"?
I guess that will work for out ok for both of us then, but should anyone ask, you can tell them he's the guy that "knows more about football than me"....lols

Well I guess we can forget about Young as Dallas picked him two spots after you.

So what was your thinking about selecting Marvin White, Texas-Christian play a 4-2-5 and theirs not many of them in the NFL.

Hey, I've just noticed Chris Henry is still available???

Caddy
04-21-2007, 06:21 PM
I'm taking etk in this bet :)

etk
04-21-2007, 08:50 PM
I guess that will work for out ok for both of us then, but should anyone ask, you can tell them he's the guy that "knows more about football than me"....lols

Well I guess we can forget about Young as Dallas picked him two spots after you.

So what was your thinking about selecting Marvin White, Texas-Christian play a 4-2-5 and theirs not many of them in the NFL.

Marvin White is good in run support and coverage, and he has prototypical size and athleticism for our defense. His main weakness is his football intelligence (that's why his stock is lower), but he will have simple deep-half duties in our coverage so he has greater value on our board.

We could have gone many ways, but I really liked how White fits in our defense, and we need someone to challenge Will Allen and provide depth. At this point we are picking for immediate depth and S is our weakest spot where depth is concerned. Wendling will play SS, I drafted him hoping I could get White later on. I don't think we've ever had an athlete like him at SS, and he will share minutes with Phillips as a rookie.

As far as Young goes, I trusted your judgement but I was shocked to see him picked so early. He would've been near the top of our board in the 5th for sure.

etk
04-21-2007, 08:51 PM
Hey, I've just noticed Chris Henry is still available???

So are some other RBs, but shh :)

Caddy
04-22-2007, 01:55 AM
So are some other RBs, but shh :)

The guy you want is pretty similar to what we already have in Pittman. Maybe taking a flyer on a guy like ^ wouldn't be too bad.

Merlin
04-22-2007, 04:34 AM
The guy you want is pretty similar to what we already have in Pittman. Maybe taking a flyer on a guy like ^ wouldn't be too bad.Who are you targeting? PM me if you like.

Caddy
04-22-2007, 05:46 AM
Who are you targeting? PM me if you like.

You would be quite familiar with him

Merlin
04-22-2007, 09:23 AM
You would be quite familiar with him

Hmm...I have two options ;- )

etk
04-22-2007, 10:43 AM
The guy you want is pretty similar to what we already have in Pittman. Maybe taking a flyer on a guy like ^ wouldn't be too bad.

That's true, but Pittman is old and drops/fumbles too many passes for my liking.

Merlin
04-22-2007, 02:11 PM
I see Detroit have just picked up Kevin Boss (TE I mentioned) and Mike Walker has gone to the Panthers.

Merlin
04-23-2007, 03:29 AM
Can't complain I guess, Walker is a proven rec, and will do well as a 3rd down RB, though I just think Henry has so much more potential, anyway nice pick.

I can't believe Barnes is still available as well?

Caddy
04-23-2007, 04:50 AM
Can't complain I guess, Walker is a proven rec, and will do well as a 3rd down RB, though I just think Henry has so much more potential, anyway nice pick.

I can't believe Barnes is still available as well?

Maybe someone will take him in the 7th...