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View Full Version : Taking a WR in the 1st


Bohleive
04-16-2007, 08:45 PM
Just a thought... if we were to take, say, Bowe with our first, I think it would have to be a precursor to trading Mason. I mean the guy's already a borderline malcontent with his role now, imagine how he'd be losing another 20-30 balls or so.
I know this has already been discussed, but with the possibility of Bowe or maybe even another WR, though he's the only one I'd want, slipping to us and more of us calling for that pick, the notion of Mason as trade bait has more weight to it. I'm curious as to what we could get for Mason, I think/hope maybe a third from a team like SD. Regardless, I'd be pretty receptive toward the idea of taking Bowe and shopping Mason. Bowe, if he were available at our pick, would likely be the best player available. Food for thought. Reactions?

EdReedUnstoppable
04-16-2007, 08:49 PM
I say take Bowe or Ginn and trade Mason for a 3rd if we can find a team to give that up (doubtful), or 4th rd pick.

ChefMike
04-16-2007, 08:53 PM
I have been preaching this for a few weeks now.. as Bowe would be a good pick I think that Ginn will be available and I think he would be a better pick, he would be able to come right in and make an impact on Special Teams...Mason though I think we keep him for one more season and then trade him next year...I think he will have a good value to a team looking for that veteran to help solidify young talent like Joe Horn is doing for the Falcons..

Bohleive
04-16-2007, 09:15 PM
I have been preaching this for a few weeks now.. as Bowe would be a good pick I think that Ginn will be available and I think he would be a better pick, he would be able to come right in and make an impact on Special Teams...Mason though I think we keep him for one more season and then trade him next year...I think he will have a good value to a team looking for that veteran to help solidify young talent like Joe Horn is doing for the Falcons..

I think it would have to be this season. If Bowe (not a huge Ginn fan, and I think we already have someone with a very similar skill-set in Clayton) was drafted, you'd have to think he'd get at least 20 balls and those wouldn't be taken from anyone but Mason. As I said, if he's a borderline problem now, wait till that happens. Besides, his value can only depreciate after this season.

ChefMike
04-16-2007, 10:00 PM
I see your point but trading him would hurt our cap which is delicate as it is right now...but utilizing him this season and bringing along slowly the WR we draft then if we can trade him next off season then do so if not release him and not have to take the full cap hit in one season take over the life of what the contract would have been which would be just another 2 seasons..trading him would cause his signing bonus to be accelerated and take the hit all in one season...

As far as Clayton and Ginn being similar I think they are very different Clayton is quick but Ginn is simply put a game breaker... he is greased lightening on the field with the ball in his hands..having he and D-Will playing behind Clayton would insane !! We would have QB's jumping at the chance to come here and throw to those WR's along with Heap !! Then couple that with McGhee in the backfield... scary..very scary !

BigDawg819
04-17-2007, 01:16 AM
Personally I'd prefer Meachem over Bowe and I'm totally against getting rid of Mason.

EdReedUnstoppable
04-17-2007, 05:01 AM
If we have a chance to get Ginn, IMO we have too.

There aren't any players o our team offense or defense with his speed, and not too many in the league who have his speed either, he would really open our offense up.

RaVeNFaNaCtIc
04-17-2007, 05:36 AM
Ginn or Bowe INO are the only 2 we should look at. I wouldn't mind either of them if there is no OT availible.

ccB
04-17-2007, 07:42 AM
I've been a fan of going WR for a while now. A WR is going to drop farther than he should (Ginn, Meachem, Bowe, or Jarrett) and I think we should take one. IMO they all compliment Williams and Clayton well. Robert Meachem is my favorite personally. If Ted Ginn is there we take cannot pass him hes a flat out playmaker.

go_ravens94
04-17-2007, 08:44 AM
Personally I'd prefer Meachem over Bowe and I'm totally against getting rid of Mason.

1. Meachem
2. Bowe
3. Ginn
4. Jarrett

bennybee38
04-17-2007, 09:51 AM
I'd hate getting a receiver in the 1st.. soooo much. but if we had to get one I like meachem

ccB
04-17-2007, 12:04 PM
I'd hate getting a receiver in the 1st.. soooo much. but if we had to get one I like meachem

Its a total BPA move. Either we can reach for a need (which often turns out bad) or take the best player on the board and address the need when theres a player of that rounds value there. If Staleys off the board (which is highly likely at this point) then there is no reason for us to reach for the next best OT prospect which is likely to be a player with a mid-late 2nd round grade. With the abundance of quality WR's its likely a high caliber player will be at our pick that is worth more than a late first round pick but because of how things fall out he took a draft stock drop. Whether it is a WR or any other position I have been and will remain in full BPA mode. I want the best player possible reguardless of position. Asside from OT I dont see another glaring need on our team so lets take the best prospect and see how he develops. If Teddy Ginn takes a draft day plunge down the first round we would be fulls not to take him on potential alone.

EdReedUnstoppable
04-17-2007, 01:15 PM
1. Meachem
2. Bowe
3. Ginn
4. Jarrett

Mine would be:

1. Ten Ginn Jr.
2. Dwayne Bowe
3. Robert Meachem
4. Sidney Rice
5. Jarrett


But if we get Staely in rd 1 and take a WR in the mid rounds my list would be:

1. Aundrae Allison
2. David Clowney
3. Jordan Kent
4. Steve Breaston
5. Ryan Moore

dcarey20
04-17-2007, 06:20 PM
if it's ted ginn jr. at 29, i'd be ecstatic because he'd be amazing value and would electrify our offense and special teams. we'd get to see some exciting and creative play calling with him.

if it's jarrett, meachem, or bowe, i wouldn't be overly pleased, but i wouldn't be overly happy either. i think all 3 of those guys will at least be solid contributors, and i don't think you can ever have enough weapons.

if ginn is off the board, which he should be, the ideal situation for me would be a late rounder like david ball out of new hampshire, matt trannon out of michigan state, or mike walker out of central florida.

Bohleive
04-18-2007, 05:44 PM
I see your point but trading him would hurt our cap which is delicate as it is right now...but utilizing him this season and bringing along slowly the WR we draft then if we can trade him next off season then do so if not release him and not have to take the full cap hit in one season take over the life of what the contract would have been which would be just another 2 seasons..trading him would cause his signing bonus to be accelerated and take the hit all in one season...

As far as Clayton and Ginn being similar I think they are very different Clayton is quick but Ginn is simply put a game breaker... he is greased lightening on the field with the ball in his hands..having he and D-Will playing behind Clayton would insane !! We would have QB's jumping at the chance to come here and throw to those WR's along with Heap !! Then couple that with McGhee in the backfield... scary..very scary !

You have a good point about the cap implications but let me put it this way; either way we're getting something in return for Mason's cap number, whether it's through his production or through a draft pick. Me, personally, I'd rather take the draft pick and a smaller, more spread out cap hit if this scenario went down. I mean the guy's gone after next season anyways, why not take the hit now? Our situation will likely be worse next offseason.

ChefMike
04-18-2007, 06:14 PM
You have a good point about the cap implications but let me put it this way; either way we're getting something in return for Mason's cap number, whether it's through his production or through a draft pick. Me, personally, I'd rather take the draft pick and a smaller, more spread out cap hit if this scenario went down. I mean the guy's gone after next season anyways, why not take the hit now? Our situation will likely be worse next offseason.

He should have one season left after this season on his current deal. With at that point we will be in position to need to resign Clayton and or Ngata I would not want to have to some lingering cap room not available because we just traded away Mason. You are correct anything we trade is going to have cap implications too but not to the degree that Mason would have. Being he is a vet and we would have a rookie filling that slot...

BigDawg819
04-18-2007, 06:19 PM
He should have one season left after this season on his current deal. With at that point we will be in position to need to resign Clayton and or Ngata I would not want to have to some lingering cap room not available because we just traded away Mason. You are correct anything we trade is going to have cap implications too but not to the degree that Mason would have. Being he is a vet and we would have a rookie filling that slot...

Its a bit early to worry about re-signing Clayton and Ngata considering Clayton is entering his 3rd year and Ngata is only entering his 2nd. I appreciate you looking ahead, but you seem to pushing the envelope just a bit far. Step back take a deep breath and do some yoga or something.

Bohleive
04-18-2007, 06:21 PM
He should have one season left after this season on his current deal. With at that point we will be in position to need to resign Clayton and or Ngata I would not want to have to some lingering cap room not available because we just traded away Mason. You are correct anything we trade is going to have cap implications too but not to the degree that Mason would have. Being he is a vet and we would have a rookie filling that slot...

I think you're not quite getting me. Mason will have, I believe, 2 more years on his deal after next season. There is no way we don't cut him after next season with our cap the way it is, and that will also produce a cap hit. Why not take the cap hit now and have another young piece in place (the draft pick) with a year under his belt? Basically, a certain amount is allotted towards Mason for our cap this year either way, I'm saying in this scenario, I'd rather have the pick than Mason's production, prolonging the inevitable and increasing the cap hit next year when well be in worse shape.

ChefMike
04-18-2007, 06:27 PM
LOL Its not that I am looking to far ahead... but if we sign them to an extension earlier then expected (obviously not too early) you can save a little bit of money and show some incredible loyalty to those players that your commited to them.

BigDawg819
04-18-2007, 06:29 PM
LOL Its not that I am looking to far ahead... but if we sign them to an extension earlier then expected (obviously not too early) you can save a little bit of money and show some incredible loyalty to those players that your commited to them.

Yes because the Ravens are notorious for not re-signing young home-grown talent or being loyal to their players. :rolleyes:

ChefMike
04-18-2007, 06:31 PM
I think you're not quite getting me. Mason will have, I believe, 2 more years on his deal after next season. There is no way we don't cut him after next season with our cap the way it is, and that will also produce a cap hit. Why not take the cap hit now and have another young piece in place (the draft pick) with a year under his belt? Basically, a certain amount is allotted towards Mason for our cap this year either way, I'm saying in this scenario, I'd rather have the pick than Mason's production, prolonging the inevitable and increasing the cap hit next year when well be in worse shape.

Ok I get that... but I still would rather have Mason here at least another year with along with that young WR because having that veteran on the team is always a plus. He is a proven comodity where as that rookie could turn out to be Travis Taylor !! Not sure about you but if you tell me you would rather have Travis Taylor then Mason... I need some of the drugs your on !

ChefMike
04-18-2007, 06:36 PM
Yes because the Ravens are notorious for not re-signing young home-grown talent or being loyal to their players. :rolleyes:

No but as close to the edge as we manage the salary cap every couple of hundred thousand $ helps !

Talent aquisition has been Ozzie's strength not Cap management...I know that we can resign them... I just want to get them back and not have to pay Top Dollar to every 1st rd pick we draft ! Clayton is good and going to get better but I don't see him as the next Jerry Rice ! Ngata could be more special then he gets credit for outside of Baltimore. I mean we have a poor history with contract negoiation and cap management. Thats how we ended up with players like Elvis Grbac and contracts that keep us stuck...

BigDawg819
04-18-2007, 06:54 PM
No but as close to the edge as we manage the salary cap every couple of hundred thousand $ helps !

Talent aquisition has been Ozzie's strength not Cap management...I know that we can resign them... I just want to get them back and not have to pay Top Dollar to every 1st rd pick we draft ! Clayton is good and going to get better but I don't see him as the next Jerry Rice ! Ngata could be more special then he gets credit for outside of Baltimore. I mean we have a poor history with contract negoiation and cap management. Thats how we ended up with players like Elvis Grbac and contracts that keep us stuck...

Are you serious?!? Pat, his last name escapes me, is one of the best in managing the cap and they do a fantastic job of signing cap friendly contracts. Your facts are flawed majorly and I wonder where you get them from. The only time we we're in cap trouble was in 2001 when we mortgaged the future season for a chance to repeat as champs. Please get real facts before you post such nonsense.

America
04-18-2007, 07:04 PM
The only problem that I have with our cap management is the amount of money we throw out sometimes. I mean when we signed Ed Reed - biggest S deal ever. When did the same with Heap. We signed Jarret Johnson to a 6 year deal probably worth ~25 million. We signed McNair to a huge deal and he's declining. We signed Willis to a gigantic deal, and we let so many young players from our team leave. I have no problem with signing our own guys long term, I just don't like when we shell out the big contracts to FAs or in trades.

BigDawg819
04-18-2007, 07:08 PM
The only problem that I have with our cap management is the amount of money we throw out sometimes. I mean when we signed Ed Reed - biggest S deal ever. When did the same with Heap. We signed Jarret Johnson to a 6 year deal probably worth ~25 million. We signed McNair to a huge deal and he's declining. We signed Willis to a gigantic deal, and we let so many young players from our team leave. I have no problem with signing our own guys long term, I just don't like when we shell out the big contracts to FAs or in trades.

The huge deal as you call it for McNair was mainly a signing bonus so its pro-rated and not as big of a cap hit.

ChefMike
04-18-2007, 10:18 PM
The only problem that I have with our cap management is the amount of money we throw out sometimes. I mean when we signed Ed Reed - biggest S deal ever. When did the same with Heap. We signed Jarret Johnson to a 6 year deal probably worth ~25 million. We signed McNair to a huge deal and he's declining. We signed Willis to a gigantic deal, and we let so many young players from our team leave. I have no problem with signing our own guys long term, I just don't like when we shell out the big contracts to FAs or in trades.

What young players have we let leave ? Adalius Thomas is the only impact FA that we have let go ?!? I don't count Jamal....or Travis Taylor...or Kemu ? I am sorry but we do a great job of resigning our players better then anyother...

I do see your point of the big contract..but where the problem arises is in Signing Bonus not in salary...

BigDawg819
04-18-2007, 10:21 PM
What young players have we let leave ? Adalius Thomas is the only impact FA that we have let go ?!? I don't count Jamal....or Travis Taylor...or Kemu ? I am sorry but we do a great job of resigning our players better then anyother...

I do see your point of the big contract..but where the problem arises is in Signing Bonus not in salary...

4 posts ago your complaining about the cap management of Ozzie and now your applauding it? Make up your mind dude...