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pav
08-15-2006, 01:18 PM
Panthers - Julius Peppers, Kris Jenkins, Kemoeatu, Rucker

or

Vikings - Erasmus James, Pat williams, kevin williams, Udeze

i'd personally have to take the vikings. what do you think?

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 01:20 PM
What the hell? Only two options and one of them is the Vikings?

08-15-2006, 01:21 PM
What the hell? Only two options and one of them is the Vikings?

LOL

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 01:22 PM
Udeze and James are still relatively unproven. And Pat Williams is about over the hill. I'll take the Panthers.

Raiderz4Life
08-15-2006, 01:23 PM
What the hell? Only two options and one of them is the Vikings?

lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

slightlyaraiderfan
08-15-2006, 01:26 PM
Only 2 options and you choose the Vikings over the Panthers, hmm.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 01:29 PM
How about the Baltimore Ravens? I think they have the best dline in the NFL. They have a poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata, they have Suggs who can play both DE and OLB, they have Adalius Thomas who can also do both, and they have Trevor Pryce who can play DE in the 4-3 and 3-4, and has the ability to drop into coverage. Their versatility is sick. They can literally throw any type of front 7/8 front at you and execute it with great results.

2nd place is Carolina IF Jenkins can stay healthy...they probably would be 1 on the list if Jenkins stays healthy...and theyre the more talented line overall...but I'm an Xs and Os guy, and the versatility of the Ravens line is where its at. They are near the level of Carolina's line, but also much more versatile.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:31 PM
What the hell? Only two options and one of them is the Vikings?

If you have some other team in mind, please feel free to put it up for discussion.

Also, was Kemoeatu a Raven last year??

Shiver
08-15-2006, 01:31 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 01:33 PM
Well with the Ravens you are counting on Ngata to be successful which some people may or may not agree with. The Panthers also have a very good Damoine Lewis who can come in a spell one of the two pick guys every once in a while. As a threesome they are very very good.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:34 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.

danman253
08-15-2006, 01:36 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
I wouldn't take the Panthers or the vikes over them. The Bears or Jaguars have the best DL in the NFL. I'd take the bears in a second

pav
08-15-2006, 01:38 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
I wouldn't take the Panthers or the vikes over them. The Bears or Jaguars have the best DL in the NFL. I'd take the bears in a second

Who are the jaguar defense ends?

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 01:38 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
How old are you?

I like the Vikings D-line a lot but at this point you can't say they are better than the Bears. If James and Udeze have seasons comparable to the ones O-Gun and Alex Brown had last year then you could make that argument, but they haven't yet.

And Ian Scott is the other starter. If you want to make a list like this you should at least inform yourself on the other teams. Not to mention that depth is a HUGE component in terms of ranking defensive lines.

Here are some other options for consideration besides the Bears:
Jaguars
Chargers
Ravens
Steelers
Seahawks
Bucs (not really but I'll throw them out there anyway)

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 01:39 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
I wouldn't take the Panthers or the vikes over them. The Bears or Jaguars have the best DL in the NFL. I'd take the bears in a second

Who are the jaguar defense ends?
Seriously kid, if you don't know anything about football, don't waste the space on the board to start a thread like this. No offense, but try to observe and learn a little bit before you start making threads of this nature.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:41 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
How old are you?

I like the Vikings D-line a lot but at this point you can't say they are better than the Bears. If James and Udeze have seasons comparable to the ones O-Gun and Alex Brown had last year then you could make that argument, but they haven't yet.

And Ian Scott is the other starter. If you want to make a list like this you should at least inform yourself on the other teams. Not to mention that depth is a HUGE component in terms of ranking defensive lines.

Here are some other options for consideration besides the Bears:
Jaguars
Chargers
Ravens
Steelers
Seahawks
Bucs (not really but I'll throw them out there anyway)

why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.

danman253
08-15-2006, 01:42 PM
They are Reggie Hayward and Paul Spicer. I personally find Hayward very underrated, and SPicer is a decent starter. The problem with Carolina is that Jenkins is always hurt. Peppers is dominant, but Kemoeatu and Rucker are decent starters. Jacksonville has the most dominant pair of DTS in the NFL, and a pair of above average DE's makes them apretty good OL.

But as I said, the Bears are clearly number one. Tommie Harris is becoming an elite tackle in the NFL. Alex Brown is the most underrated end n the league. Ogunleye is a sack machine who dominates, and Tank Johnson and Ian Scott are strong #2's.

SuperMcGee
08-15-2006, 01:42 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.

its tank johnson, and as BF_51 said Ian Scott is the starter and he's pretty good in his role

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 01:42 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
How old are you?

I like the Vikings D-line a lot but at this point you can't say they are better than the Bears. If James and Udeze have seasons comparable to the ones O-Gun and Alex Brown had last year then you could make that argument, but they haven't yet.

And Ian Scott is the other starter. If you want to make a list like this you should at least inform yourself on the other teams. Not to mention that depth is a HUGE component in terms of ranking defensive lines.

Here are some other options for consideration besides the Bears:
Jaguars
Chargers
Ravens
Steelers
Seahawks
Bucs (not really but I'll throw them out there anyway)

why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
At least half the teams I named are unquestionably better than the Vikings D-Line.

Dillen
08-15-2006, 01:42 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

danman253
08-15-2006, 01:43 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
How old are you?

I like the Vikings D-line a lot but at this point you can't say they are better than the Bears. If James and Udeze have seasons comparable to the ones O-Gun and Alex Brown had last year then you could make that argument, but they haven't yet.

And Ian Scott is the other starter. If you want to make a list like this you should at least inform yourself on the other teams. Not to mention that depth is a HUGE component in terms of ranking defensive lines.

Here are some other options for consideration besides the Bears:
Jaguars
Chargers
Ravens
Steelers
Seahawks
Bucs (not really but I'll throw them out there anyway)
The Seahawks will be beastly as soon as Daryl Tapp Replaces either Winstrom or Fischer. Bernard and Tubbs are one of the best pair of young DTs in the NFL

The Unseen
08-15-2006, 01:44 PM
The Ravens are a good choice, although Ngata has not yet played a down in the NFL. I think the Bears have the most complete line in the NFL. Other lines have question marks, this one pretty much doesn't. The Jaguars are second IMO. They have the premier DT duo in the NFL, along with Reggie Hayward and Paul Spicer. Spicer you could call the line's question mark, because he's getting older and isn't a top pass-rusher like others on good lines are. But he is still an excellent run stuffer. He is comparable to Mike Rucker in these regards, although I don't think he's should be considered as good as Mike.

The Jaguars also have great depth at D-line: back-up DT/DE Rob Meier had 6 sacks in limited action last season, and third-down DE Bobby McCray has 9 sacks in his two seasons in the NFL in his limited time, along with 4 forced fumbles. If he shows more run-stopping ability, he could be considered the "REotF". Fifth-round pick Brent Hawkins, the DE from Illinois State, has been moved to OLB, but will get time as a "designated pass-rusher": lining up at DE on passing downs, coming off the edge on blitzes, that stuff. He's look great so far in TC and in the first game. Seventh-rounder DE James Wyche also seems to have potential in this department.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:46 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

yourfavestoner
08-15-2006, 01:47 PM
The Vikings? Really? Come on now. The best d-line in the NFL is a 3-way between Chicago, Carolina, and Jacksonville.

danman253
08-15-2006, 01:48 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

yourfavestoner
08-15-2006, 01:49 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Right. Because the difference between 18 and 21 is astronimical.

Contrary to a lot of idiots' beliefs, the internet isn't just a place for kids. This message board is a place for intelligent football fans to network, exchange ideas and opinions, and gather information regarding the draft.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 01:49 PM
The reason I rate the Ravens over the bears is my personal dislike for the Cover 2. I just don't like the front. Theyre a little thin, and while the speed is there, that line is vulnerable to power runners and can get overwhelmed by big physical lines. If you have a dominant LT like Roaf or Jones, you can run off tackle runs at their small DEs all day. Yes, they generate a crazy pass rush, but theyre a little too thin for my liking when talking about rush defense.

I think Baltimore gives you just as much pass rush, couple with much more versatility (which will confuse the heck out of the qb) and better rush defense. They can outpower zone blocking lines, they can hold their ground against powerful olines, and they have the speed around the edge to generate a pass rush...they can do it all. I understand Ngata has some question marks, but he hasn't really shown me anything to make me believe that he is a bust yet. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Im not saying Chicago's dline is bad...I just think theyre not the best. Theyre a little too undersized for my liking.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:52 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:53 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Right. Because the difference between 18 and 21 is astronimical.

Contrary to a lot of idiots' beliefs, the internet isn't just a place for kids. This message board is a place for intelligent football fans to network, exchange ideas and opinions, and gather information regarding the draft.

football is just a game. don't get too worked up over it.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 01:53 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
Believe it or not, you can do both.

danman253
08-15-2006, 01:54 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
You'd be suprised how many people go on this site at their jobs.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 01:56 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
Believe it or not, you can do both.

Lol, I was just about to say that. Alot of us here on the board come on this board during work as a way to cool off from the stress of the work environment and just have something to do while working. Work gets VERY boring,redundant, and stressful sometimes, and I use the forum as a way of keeping myself entertained while working. Don't worry, you'll learn what I'm talking about when you get there.

pav
08-15-2006, 01:57 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
Believe it or not, you can do both.

Well if you work on a computer.
My brother was a die-hard football fan a few years back. As soon as he reached 20, it was grow up time. Now he works 10 hours a day, and discusses important things such as politics and the economy. Seems kind of dull to me, but i think that is what growing up is.

Flyboy
08-15-2006, 01:57 PM
What the hell? Only two options and one of them is the Vikings?

My thoughts exactly. :lol:

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 01:58 PM
I have so much down time at work it is rediculous. I would probably go crazy if not for this forum and other sites. It is actually when I am home that I rarely go on. I have better options of things to do then.

Dillen
08-15-2006, 01:58 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 02:00 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
Believe it or not, you can do both.

Well if you work on a computer.
My brother was a die-hard football fan a few years back. As soon as he reached 20, it was grow up time. Now he works 10 hours a day, and discusses important things such as politics and the economy. Seems kind of dull to me, but i think that is what growing up is.

Please, trust me, Ive been there before...and discussing politics is the biggest waste of time. Especially since most of the people who discuss politics really know nothing about it and talk out of their ass half the time, and economy...you think we all think about football all the time? Come on man, obviously we talk and discuss finances as well. Thats not really a great way of letting off steam. Football boards like this is a nice leasure activity to enjoy while your working at your office desk. Im at my desk about 2 hours out of my 10 hour day, and while Im working on paper work, I like checking out what is going on in the football world. Like I said, you'll understand when you get into the work environment.

pav
08-15-2006, 02:01 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 02:02 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
Believe it or not, you can do both.

Well if you work on a computer.
My brother was a die-hard football fan a few years back. As soon as he reached 20, it was grow up time. Now he works 10 hours a day, and discusses important things such as politics and the economy. Seems kind of dull to me, but i think that is what growing up is.
I'm getting my PhD in history. I discuss theory all day long. The last thing I want to do when I come home is deal with it even more. Don't sell out to the corporate model man. Do what you want and enjoy your life. We all die in the end anyway.

pav
08-15-2006, 02:02 PM
well, we sure did get off topic quickly. I hate to be some sort of counselor or psycologist. All i know is that if i'm on here when i'm 20, i'm a loser. You can hold me to that. 24 year old person on a message board can be described as... irrelevant. Now i'm sure some of you have great reasons to be on here, and more power to you. But don't you have work and job and wife and kids to take care of. Most people don't have time for this. Damn, i've probably offended a ton of people on here. I am sincerely sorry if i did. I'll shut up now.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 02:04 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Yet Cowherd is the ultimate person like us. He does that to fire people up and get ratings. Come on now.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 02:04 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

danman253
08-15-2006, 02:04 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

No it doesn't. Just cuz you graduate does not mean you can't stop enjoying the things you love. Yeah you pay attention to the economy and all that fun stuff, but you still can talk about sports once you grow up.

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 02:06 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 02:08 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

pav
08-15-2006, 02:08 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

If you don't like your job, get a different one. You seem like a real productive member of the work force. I'm sure your boss would be thrilled. LOL. Alright man, i really am sorry for offending you. We're cool right?

Dillen
08-15-2006, 02:08 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 02:10 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

If you don't like your job, get a different one. You seem like a real productive member of the work force. I'm sure your boss would be thrilled. LOL. Alright man, i really am sorry for offending you. We're cool right?

My boss knows I surf this site all day. Very few people love what they do for a living. If you do, you are very lucky. I enjoy the paycheck and people I work with, but I'm not about to say I love my job. If I could sit on mybutt and do what I want all day and still collect a paycheck I would.

pav
08-15-2006, 02:12 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

If you don't like your job, get a different one. You seem like a real productive member of the work force. I'm sure your boss would be thrilled. LOL. Alright man, i really am sorry for offending you. We're cool right?

My boss knows I surf this site all day. Very few people love what they do for a living. If you do, you are very lucky. I enjoy the paycheck and people I work with, but I'm not about to say I love my job. If I could sit on mybutt and do what I want all day and still collect a paycheck I would.

1. You have a great boss, you are very lucky.
2. I'm sorry you don't enjoy your work, i hope i will enjoy mine.
3. If you are willing to sit on your butt all day and collect a paycheck, you are a part of the problem not part of the solution. Join welfare
4. I really need to get off this topic because i'm making enemies by the second.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 02:13 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

If you don't like your job, get a different one. You seem like a real productive member of the work force. I'm sure your boss would be thrilled. LOL. Alright man, i really am sorry for offending you. We're cool right?

Lol, don't worry about it. We're cool. Im just trying to explain to you how the workplace is. Trust me, when you get there you'll understand. Alot of times, youll want to just relax and unwind. You're not gonna think about finances and work all the time. And trust me...work is work...no matter how much you love it, lol. These type of forums provides a way for some of us to unwind and relax a little while at work. The environment is very stressful, and sometimes you need a break. Oh...and screw my boss, lol. F*ck him, I need a raise, lol. Well, I don't really...but I still want one.

pav
08-15-2006, 02:15 PM
I'm really getting left out in the cold in this poll.

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 02:15 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

sweetness34
08-15-2006, 02:15 PM
Panthers - Julius Peppers, Kris Jenkins, Kemoeatu, Rucker

or

Vikings - Erasmus James, Pat williams, kevin williams, Udeze

i'd personally have to take the vikings. what do you think?

Carolina Panthers...4 proven Pro Bowl caliber players. Mike Rucker, Brenson Buckner, Kris Jenkins, and Julius Peppers.

I'd take Carolina over Minnesota 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Udeze and Erasmus have not proven themselves to be dominant players yet. They have potential, but Carolina's D-Line have proven themselves to be top tier defensive lineman in the NFL.

Chicago needs to be in the discussion. Tommie Harris, Adawale Ogunleye, Ian Scott, and Alex Brown. Although Carolina still is #1 in my book.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 02:15 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

If you don't like your job, get a different one. You seem like a real productive member of the work force. I'm sure your boss would be thrilled. LOL. Alright man, i really am sorry for offending you. We're cool right?

My boss knows I surf this site all day. Very few people love what they do for a living. If you do, you are very lucky. I enjoy the paycheck and people I work with, but I'm not about to say I love my job. If I could sit on mybutt and do what I want all day and still collect a paycheck I would.

1. You have a great boss, you are very lucky.
2. I'm sorry you don't enjoy your work, i hope i will enjoy mine.
3. If you are willing to sit on your butt all day and collect a paycheck, you are a part of the problem not part of the solution. Join welfare
4. I really need to get off this topic because i'm making enemies by the second.

Ha. If a welfare check was the same size as the one I get now, I would. But the is hardly the case. You'll get it one day. Like bigblue said, most jobs are painfully redundant. Ever see Office Space?

Dillen
08-15-2006, 02:17 PM
1. You have a great boss, you are very lucky.
2. I'm sorry you don't enjoy your work, i hope i will enjoy mine.
3. If you are willing to sit on your butt all day and collect a paycheck, you are a part of the problem not part of the solution. Join welfare
4. I really need to get off this topic because i'm making enemies by the second.
1. It isnt completely out of the question to have a nice boss. I've had two completely different jobs, but both of the guys I worked for were nice guys. At work it isnt like you are working hard all the time.
3. He doesnt do that, though. How many people wouldnt sit on their ass and get paid for it?
4. Not necessarily.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 02:17 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

pav
08-15-2006, 02:18 PM
Panthers - Julius Peppers, Kris Jenkins, Kemoeatu, Rucker

or

Vikings - Erasmus James, Pat williams, kevin williams, Udeze

i'd personally have to take the vikings. what do you think?

Carolina Panthers...4 proven Pro Bowl caliber players. Mike Rucker, Brenson Buckner, Kris Jenkins, and Julius Peppers.

I'd take Carolina over Minnesota 7 days a week and twice on Sunday. Udeze and Erasmus have not proven themselves to be dominant players yet. They have potential, but Carolina's D-Line have proven themselves to be top tier defensive lineman in the NFL.

Chicago needs to be in the discussion. Tommie Harris, Adawale Ogunleye, Ian Scott, and Alex Brown. Although Carolina still is #1 in my book.

Buckner is gone. The Giants might be trying to land him as a free agent. If the giants had better interior lineman, i'd have to go with them for the best defensive line. Unfortunately they are loaded at DE, but none of the DT's are proven, or deserve to start in the NFL.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2006, 02:18 PM
Even if a job isn't redundant I still like to come on here and relax. I'm working towards my PhD and teach classes part time and while I love my job that doens't mean I don't have other interests. If you really want to talk about sad, I think it's sad when people change who they are in order to conform to societal expectations. I don't ever want to be one of those lame ass people that just blathers about the weather or politics or whatever just so I can be palatable for the general public. The real beauty in being a grown adult is living your own life by your standards.

Dillen
08-15-2006, 02:19 PM
Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.
Not at all, I'm glad he's gone. You can pay Simon $30M or whatever it is to work himself into shape around November.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2006, 02:21 PM
Colts Dline? Come on dude, you cannot seriously believe they are the best. Freeney can't stuff the run at all, Mathis is a situational pass rusher, Simon is over the hill. That defense as a whole is extremely overrated. It still stinks. They had the benefit of having a large lead and having to only defend the pass almost all the time. Youll get turnovers that way. When they played good offenses, they got WHOOPED. The Colts and Defense don't belong in the same sentence, let alone best dline discussion.

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 02:40 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.
Not at all, I'm glad he's gone. You can pay Simon $30M or whatever it is to work himself into shape around November.

Keep in mind that most of that is getting paid off this year. Work his way into shape by November? Is that why he's already lost 25 pounds?

Colts Dline? Come on dude, you cannot seriously believe they are the best. Freeney can't stuff the run at all, Mathis is a situational pass rusher, Simon is over the hill. That defense as a whole is extremely overrated. It still stinks. They had the benefit of having a large lead and having to only defend the pass almost all the time. Youll get turnovers that way. When they played good offenses, they got WHOOPED. The Colts and Defense don't belong in the same sentence, let alone best dline discussion.

You said they weren't top 5. I disagreed with that. Still do. Mathis doesn't play every down, Brock, who is also an instrumental part of the DL, will see a large chunk of PT there. Simon may have looked over the hill last year, but considering he played the entire year overweight, I have a hard time believeing he is at age 29. You need to go back and look at the games if you actually believe that the Colts defense had large leads in every game, because early in the season, that couldn't be further from the truth. As for getting "whooped" by good offenses, would you consider the 9th best scoring offense in the NFL a "good offense"? Because the Colts defense only allowed 7 points to them, and that was on a drive that began 7 yards away from a touchdown. Would you consider the 12th best scoring offense in the NFL a "good offense"? Because the Colts defense held them to 3 points in a dominating performance. I'm surprised at the lack of respect the Colts defense still gets. So they outperformed what you thought they were capable of. Did you ever think that your assessment could be wrong?

yourfavestoner
08-15-2006, 02:41 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.

What you have to understand is that your personal life doesn't stop as soon as you enter the workforce. Unless you have a job that you love, work is simply going to be a place where you go to collect a paycheck, and that's how most people actually like it. They don't want their jobs playing a huge part in their personal life.

Also, you don't have to talk about politics or economics to prove anything. If they're things that you're genuinely interested in, then more power to you. I happen to find politics, economics, and religion to be fascinating topics of conversation, just as I do with football.

Personally, I've always found the business/economic side of football far more intriguiging than what actually happens on the field on Sundays. As far as politics and economics go, you'd be amazed at the internal workings of the NFL.

bearfan
08-15-2006, 02:43 PM
Wow..who is this Pav kid?
Vikes defense is good, but there are better d-lines in the league than them. Udezi and James are at this point unproven, though Kevin Williams and Pat Williams are good, I would take Harris over Kevin Williams any day.

Here is how I see it (top 4, no particular order):
Bears
Panthers
Ravens
Jaguars

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 02:44 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Freeney is the cornerstone of the defense? What does that say anyway? I would say Manning does more for that defense than Freeney does. True, Osi may not be the best DE on his team or cornerstone of our defense. All that says is we have two DEs better than Freeney.

remix 6
08-15-2006, 02:46 PM
Patriots

Seymour-Wilfork-Warren

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 02:46 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Freeney is the cornerstone of the defense? What does that say anyway? I would say Manning does more for that defense than Freeney does. True, Osi may not be the best DE on his team or cornerstone of our defense. All that says is we have two DEs better than Freeney.

:lol: Now I see why you have that title.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 02:48 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Freeney is the cornerstone of the defense? What does that say anyway? I would say Manning does more for that defense than Freeney does. True, Osi may not be the best DE on his team or cornerstone of our defense. All that says is we have two DEs better than Freeney.

:lol: Now I see why you have that title.

Its not so much praise for the Giants DEs, but more criticism of Freeney. I think he is the most overrated player in the NFL. I have said that numerous times on these forums. He thinks he can get a big pay day somewhere else? Let him try. He wouldn't be nearly as good on most teams. In fact on some teams he would probably be regulated to a role similar to what Mathis plays for your team. Besides the two DEs on the Giants, there are quite a few other DEs I would rather have on my team than Freeney.

Ho0k Em'
08-15-2006, 02:48 PM
So youre saying that once you go into college/graduate, sports become almost irrelevant? It doesnt work that way if you actually care and werent just a casual fan.

I'm saying that once you go to college/graduate from college, sports should take a back seat in your life. You should look forward to a brighter future for yourself, not your team. Sure you could watch the games, but going on forums and getting all worked up over defensive lines? Thats not what i'd call grown up. If you ever listen to Collin Cowherd on ESPN radio, he rips guys like us very often.

Buddy, didn't you MAKE the thread? What are you talking about? Why ask everyone what they think if youre gonna get so defensive about it? And trust me, when you get into the work place...you'll learn how redundant everything becomes. No one here is putting football before work or themselves. If we did, we wouldn't have jobs. If anyone here is acting like a kid, its you. You are showing your immaturity by talking about things you really have no experience in.

If you don't like your job, get a different one. You seem like a real productive member of the work force. I'm sure your boss would be thrilled. LOL. Alright man, i really am sorry for offending you. We're cool right?

My boss knows I surf this site all day. Very few people love what they do for a living. If you do, you are very lucky. I enjoy the paycheck and people I work with, but I'm not about to say I love my job. If I could sit on mybutt and do what I want all day and still collect a paycheck I would.

1. You have a great boss, you are very lucky.
2. I'm sorry you don't enjoy your work, i hope i will enjoy mine.
3. If you are willing to sit on your butt all day and collect a paycheck, you are a part of the problem not part of the solution. Join welfare
4. I really need to get off this topic because i'm making enemies by the second.

Another idiot that thinks most the people on welfare are trying to cheat the system. :roll:

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 02:59 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Freeney is the cornerstone of the defense? What does that say anyway? I would say Manning does more for that defense than Freeney does. True, Osi may not be the best DE on his team or cornerstone of our defense. All that says is we have two DEs better than Freeney.

:lol: Now I see why you have that title.

Its not so much praise for the Giants DEs, but more criticism of Freeney. I think he is the most overrated player in the NFL. I have said that numerous times on these forums. He thinks he can get a big pay day somewhere else? Let him try. He wouldn't be nearly as good on most teams. In fact on some teams he would probably be regulated to a role similar to what Mathis plays for your team.

Good for you. I guess you don't take into account the value of a player that commands a double team? Because if you don't double Freeney, he will eventually break through and make a play, even if he is contained for a half or so. If you don't believe that, watch the Rams MNF game, which pretty much swung on a play Freeney made by finally getting into Pace's head and beating him. On most teams, he would easily be the starting RE. At 6'1" 268, Freeney is about the average height and weight of the starting NFL RE in 4-3s, but also possesses a speed and explosiveness that most don't. Combine that with his array of moves, and he's deadly. He generally doesn't make plays against the run, granted, although he does have his moments (stuffing Jamal Lewis in the backfield, forcing the game changing Steven Jackson fumble), but that's more of a product of the scheme and the coaching staff than it is an indictment on his run defending abilities, as the staff and the scheme always call for him to play pass first. The only defenses he wouldn't be starting at DE on in the NFL would be 3-4s, but that's because he, like most 4-3 DEs, is too small to play 3-4 DE. In a 3-4 however, he would likely be the playmaking OLB that every 3-4 covets. If you don't believe that, you've never watched him play.

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 03:03 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Freeney is the cornerstone of the defense? What does that say anyway? I would say Manning does more for that defense than Freeney does. True, Osi may not be the best DE on his team or cornerstone of our defense. All that says is we have two DEs better than Freeney.

:lol: Now I see why you have that title.

Its not so much praise for the Giants DEs, but more criticism of Freeney. I think he is the most overrated player in the NFL. I have said that numerous times on these forums. He thinks he can get a big pay day somewhere else? Let him try. He wouldn't be nearly as good on most teams. In fact on some teams he would probably be regulated to a role similar to what Mathis plays for your team.

Good for you. I guess you don't take into account the value of a player that commands a double team? Because if you don't double Freeney, he will eventually break through and make a play, even if he is contained for a half or so. If you don't believe that, watch the Rams MNF game, which pretty much swung on a play Freeney made by finally getting into Pace's head and beating him. On most teams, he would easily be the starting RE. At 6'1" 268, Freeney is about the average height and weight of the starting NFL RE in 4-3s, but also possesses a speed and explosiveness that most don't. Combine that with his array of moves, and he's deadly. He generally doesn't make plays against the run, granted, although he does have his moments (stuffing Jamal Lewis in the backfield, forcing the game changing Steven Jackson fumble), but that's more of a product of the scheme and the coaching staff than it is an indictment on his run defending abilities, as the staff and the scheme always call for him to play pass first. The only defenses he wouldn't be starting at DE on in the NFL would be 3-4s, but that's because he, like most 4-3 DEs, is too small to play 3-4 DE. In a 3-4 however, he would likely be the playmaking OLB that every 3-4 covets. If you don't believe that, you've never watched him play.

Freeney is more of a product of the scheme and coaching staff than anything else.

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 03:07 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?

Sorry...Colts dline is not even top 5...but nice try though

I disagree. That 2nd best scoring defense had to come from somewhere, and the Colts DL is by far the best defensive unit they have. The fact that they hadn't even been mentioned when teams like the Vikings and Ravens were was ridiculous IMO.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?
Corey Simon is not even close to Pro Bowl level anymore.

Disgruntled Eagles fan? Simon has lost almost all the extra weight he played with last season, and from what I've heard from Eagles fans, Simon generally uses that time to shed the pounds. If he gets in shape, which he's pretty close to doing, he could again be the force he once was.

Colts defense is only a high scoring defense, because Peytong gets them such a big league, that the majority of the DL can forget about playing the run. Ha. Trying to stop the run is almost an afterthought to them. Also which player got 2nd if DOPY voting? They certainly didn't deserve it.

I'm sure you think Osi deserves it more than Freeney, despite the fact that Freeney is the cornerstone of his defense, while Osi isn't even the best DE on his team.

Freeney is the cornerstone of the defense? What does that say anyway? I would say Manning does more for that defense than Freeney does. True, Osi may not be the best DE on his team or cornerstone of our defense. All that says is we have two DEs better than Freeney.

:lol: Now I see why you have that title.

Its not so much praise for the Giants DEs, but more criticism of Freeney. I think he is the most overrated player in the NFL. I have said that numerous times on these forums. He thinks he can get a big pay day somewhere else? Let him try. He wouldn't be nearly as good on most teams. In fact on some teams he would probably be regulated to a role similar to what Mathis plays for your team.

Good for you. I guess you don't take into account the value of a player that commands a double team? Because if you don't double Freeney, he will eventually break through and make a play, even if he is contained for a half or so. If you don't believe that, watch the Rams MNF game, which pretty much swung on a play Freeney made by finally getting into Pace's head and beating him. On most teams, he would easily be the starting RE. At 6'1" 268, Freeney is about the average height and weight of the starting NFL RE in 4-3s, but also possesses a speed and explosiveness that most don't. Combine that with his array of moves, and he's deadly. He generally doesn't make plays against the run, granted, although he does have his moments (stuffing Jamal Lewis in the backfield, forcing the game changing Steven Jackson fumble), but that's more of a product of the scheme and the coaching staff than it is an indictment on his run defending abilities, as the staff and the scheme always call for him to play pass first. The only defenses he wouldn't be starting at DE on in the NFL would be 3-4s, but that's because he, like most 4-3 DEs, is too small to play 3-4 DE. In a 3-4 however, he would likely be the playmaking OLB that every 3-4 covets. If you don't believe that, you've never watched him play.

Freeney is more of a product of the scheme and coaching staff than anything else.

You really think someone with his speed, explosiveness, and moves wouldn't succeed elsewhere?

The Legend
08-15-2006, 03:29 PM
where none of the above

psub10champs
08-15-2006, 03:31 PM
4-3 Carolina

3-4 Steelers (call me a homer or not I don't care, 3-4 defense they are the best)

The Legend
08-15-2006, 03:34 PM
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS

Jughead10
08-15-2006, 03:47 PM
Freeney is more of a product of the scheme and coaching staff than anything else.

You really think someone with his speed, explosiveness, and moves wouldn't succeed elsewhere?

I do think that. There is more to being a great defensive lineman than all that. The man can't play the run at all. Sure he will get the occasional big play behind the line, but he is all pass rush. He is up to field so quick that he takes himself out of plays all the time. Two years ago I was so worried about the same thing with Osi. I honestly didn't think Osi was going to be a great player because he used to take himself out of running plays all the time. He adapted. Freeney has shown he hasn't. He GREATLY benefits from playing with Manning and having a lead all the time. And he benefits even more by playing indoors on that turf. He is in a perfect situation to shine right now, but on most other teams he wouldn't have that novelty. And I really think he will see this if he ever hits the open market. Teams won't be making him the highest defensive player in the game. He should just ride a good thing out and resign with the Colts now, so more people don't realize how one dimensional he is.

DMWSackMachine
08-15-2006, 03:49 PM
Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.

pav
08-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS

That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.

pav
08-15-2006, 04:14 PM
Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.

A personal shot. Cute. It's a line from a song. Oh and regarding the ridiculous idea that julius jones is a better and more productive running back than tiki barber shows your ignorance. Look at the stats, genious boy.

The Legend
08-15-2006, 04:19 PM
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS

That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.

that proves you have no football knowledge...

did you forget who lead in sacks in the nfl?

Grant Wistrom
Marcus Tubbs
Rocky Bernard
Bryce Fisher

buccs


Rice
White
Spires
McFarland
Hovan

jags

there end had more sacks then the whole vikings dline

gaints

no i just forgot to list them simple they should be on the list

ravens

Pryce
Suggs
Nagta
Green
Thomas
Gregg

you have to remember the ravens run a diffrent defence 4-6

the player above had a total of 25 sacks last year

panthers

not to take anything away from them cause they got a nice line but there starter have total of 19 sacks last year

yourfavestoner
08-15-2006, 04:34 PM
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS

That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.

See? This is why Pro Bowl voting is so screwed up. People like you see names that you recognize and assume that he's better than somebody you don't know.

Oh yeah, and those pure pass rushers you love so much on the Vikings? They combined for five sacks.

Meanwhile, Seattle led the league in sacks, and Jacksonville led the league in sacks per pass attempt. But you don't know their defensive linemen, so they must not be good.

D4rk 0ne
08-15-2006, 05:08 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.
So if that's true, you should be leaving soon..? I mean you must be pretty close to 20 if you're in college. :roll:

What is wrong with the Colts? No need to explain Freeney or Simon. Mathis is a good end who is overlooked because of Freeney, and I think Brock is also better than a lot of DTs in the NFL. I'm not saying they're the best, but they deserve mention. Plus they've proven themselves as a unit...

And if you think Julius Jones is less productive than Tiki Barber, I don't know why I'm even posting here... Even if Jones has some obscure stat that is better than Tiki's, there's no comparison. I like Jones, but he is not comparable to Tiki at this point.

njx9
08-15-2006, 05:31 PM
this is officially the worst thread on this board.

pav: please grow up before even thinking about telling me how to live my life. i'm sorry, but the idea that a 16-19 year old has any vague idea what life is like at 24 is absolutely laughable. the fact that you're even defending what you think is even worse.

and no, i haven't even gotten to the worst part. you've displayed such an utter lack of football knowledge by creating this poll and "defending" it, that you should really probably watch a few games before posting here again. better would be to take some time and read through what people with a significantly better understanding of football have said about the sport in other places.

GermanSaint
08-15-2006, 05:35 PM
panthers ok , but the second and only other option are the viqueens ?

there are the steelers , the giants , the bears , the pats , and maybe also the saints ( with 2 good DEs ) and you choose the vikes ?

elway777
08-15-2006, 05:37 PM
Vikings may have the most talented D-line,but they do not play up to it.

how bout the browncos?lol,jk

Paranoidmoonduck
08-15-2006, 05:42 PM
I am a big fan of the line the Falcons are putting out there. Coleman is arguably the best pass rushing defensive tackle in the NFL, Kerney is great all around, and Abraham is one of the top sack artists in the entire league. Until Jenkins or Kevin Williams prove they can stay healthy and dominant, I'm going with Atlanta.

ruthlessrussian
08-15-2006, 05:42 PM
why don't we just throw all 32 teams into the poll? And do you seriously want to know my age? i'll tell you if you tell me.
11?

Well if i was 11, i'd be a pretty darn smart 11 year old. Let's just say that it's summer vacation and i'm waiting for college to start. I personally wouldn't be very proud if i was over the age of 20 and on a football forum, no offense.

Why? I am 18 so i'm not speaking from Personal Experiance, but its a place where you can talk about football with people who share the same interests. I mean would you talk to your girlfriend about this stuff? No. Age doesn't really matter IMO

Agreed. But, i would like to think that men over the age of 20 have jobs and responsibilities. Arguing on a football forum is a no no if you are over 20, in my opinion. Heck, even i feel like a loser on here. In retrospect i really regret not getting a summer job.
You'd be suprised how many people go on this site at their jobs.


Pretty much the reason i come to work....
P

elway777
08-15-2006, 05:54 PM
I am a big fan of the line the Falcons are putting out there. Coleman is arguably the best pass rushing defensive tackle in the NFL, Kerney is great all around, and Abraham is one of the top sack artists in the entire league. Until Jenkins or Kevin Williams prove they can stay healthy and dominant, I'm going with Atlanta.


Pass rushing their great at,stopping the run is a WAY different story.

DMWSackMachine
08-15-2006, 06:08 PM
Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.

A personal shot. Cute. It's a line from a song. Oh and regarding the ridiculous idea that julius jones is a better and more productive running back than tiki barber shows your ignorance. Look at the stats, genious boy.

:lol: Nice, I'm glad to see that your reaction is consistent with my previous judgment of your mental faculties. Bravo.

Canadian_kid16
08-15-2006, 06:15 PM
The Bucs have one of the most underrated Dlines in the NFL. No wonder you don't know about them...

Sure Rice is the only one you know, and he deserves it. Rice routinely puts up 10+ sacks a year, when most teams know he is our best D lineman. The fact is Rice has 10 less career sacks than Strahan, and Strahan has played 3 more years, and he had 22 in one year. Strahan has had 7 seasons with 10 or les sacks, and Rice has one while playing with ARIZONA and us. So Rice is better than Strahan.

Our DTs have the potential to be very good. Chris Hovan played really well for, when he was though to be "washed up". Our future NT, Anthony Bryant, is a 335 pound force who will, IMO, produce similar to Warren sapp in his prime in 2 years.

Our other DE rotation is also very good. Greg Spires is Mr. Underrated, he really plays the run well and also provides with with a decent pass rush. Our other DE, Dewayne, is another young player on our DL who will break out as soon as he gets the chance to play every day.

Call me a homer, I really don't care, but I believe that the Bucs DL is Top 5 material, and will be Top 3 Material in 2 years

DMWSackMachine
08-15-2006, 06:31 PM
No offense there dude, but you can't just list sacks as the sole barometer for how good a DE is. Especially over a career. Strahan was a late bloomer, and had to be shifted over to the strong side before he truly started to excel. Also, Rice isn't even average when it comes to playing the run, and he doesn't have the repertoire that Strahan has. Either way, I think you could possibly make a case that Rice is a better pass rusher than Mike is, but definitely not a better total package.

With that said, I actually do agree with you about the Bucs DLine. They are very good, and since Sapp left they have kind of flown under the radar a bit. However, they still don't come in the top 3. But they are among the best.

Canadian_kid16
08-15-2006, 06:42 PM
No offense there dude, but you can't just list sacks as the sole barometer for how good a DE is. Especially over a career. Strahan was a late bloomer, and had to be shifted over to the strong side before he truly started to excel. Also, Rice isn't even average when it comes to playing the run, and he doesn't have the repertoire that Strahan has. Either way, I think you could possibly make a case that Rice is a better pass rusher than Mike is, but definitely not a better total package.

With that said, I actually do agree with you about the Bucs DLine. They are very good, and since Sapp left they have kind of flown under the radar a bit. However, they still don't come in the top 3. But they are among the best.

No offence taken, IDK how Strahan does against the run, so I can't comment on that...but I agree with your entire post

Titans10
08-15-2006, 07:22 PM
It makes me mad to say this but the Hags have to be up there with Stroud and Henderson clogging up the middle of the d-line

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 07:25 PM
Freeney is more of a product of the scheme and coaching staff than anything else.

You really think someone with his speed, explosiveness, and moves wouldn't succeed elsewhere?

I do think that. There is more to being a great defensive lineman than all that. The man can't play the run at all. Sure he will get the occasional big play behind the line, but he is all pass rush. He is up to field so quick that he takes himself out of plays all the time. Two years ago I was so worried about the same thing with Osi. I honestly didn't think Osi was going to be a great player because he used to take himself out of running plays all the time. He adapted. Freeney has shown he hasn't. He GREATLY benefits from playing with Manning and having a lead all the time. And he benefits even more by playing indoors on that turf. He is in a perfect situation to shine right now, but on most other teams he wouldn't have that novelty. And I really think he will see this if he ever hits the open market. Teams won't be making him the highest defensive player in the game. He should just ride a good thing out and resign with the Colts now, so more people don't realize how one dimensional he is.

:lol: At least I know I'm dealing with a hopeless case now. What part of "the scheme and the staff call for him to play that way" do you not understand? A big part of the Tampa 2 is to generate pressure, and a player who is playing pass first, especially one with the talent of Dwight Freeney, is going to accomplish that goal much better than a player who has a run responsibility before he tries to get to the QB. Considering that the Tampa 2 almost NEVER uses a blitz, getting that pressure with the DL is essential, so the scheme leaves it to the LBs and secondary to clean up any runs that get by. That's why the safeties in Tampa 2 schemes are generally very fast, and tend to be hard hitters. Also, the Colts coaching staff preaches to the DL to get to the QB first, and worry about the run if and/or when it happens. So, if a DE is playing in a scheme that requires him to get to the QB as fast as he can, and his coaches are telling him to play the pass invariably, doesn't it stand to reason that he's very likely to overrun a lot of running plays, and look like a bad run defender because of it?

effthiskid11
08-15-2006, 07:30 PM
I dono, the Vikes Interior line is pretty hard to beat, Henderson/Stroud is the only DT combo better than that, but overall I'd say its the Panthers, if everyone is healthy.

Ravens1991
08-15-2006, 07:35 PM
I dono, the Vikes Interior line is pretty hard to beat, Henderson/Stroud is the only DT combo better than that, but overall I'd say its the Panthers, if everyone is healthy.

I agree, Peppers is a absolute beast, Ma'ake Memouta is a very good run stuffer, if Kris Jenkins is healthy he will be a very good DT.

effthiskid11
08-15-2006, 07:39 PM
I dono, the Vikes Interior line is pretty hard to beat, Henderson/Stroud is the only DT combo better than that, but overall I'd say its the Panthers, if everyone is healthy.

I agree, Peppers is a absolute beast, Ma'ake Memouta is a very good run stuffer, if Kris Jenkins is healthy he will be a very good DT.

They both are excellent run stuffers, and the thing I like a lot about them is they should free up Peppers

Ace
08-15-2006, 08:00 PM
Can't believe none of ya'll mentioned the Phins DL.

Jason Taylor
Vonnie Holliday
Keith Traylor
Dan Wilkinson
Kevin Carter
David Bowens
Matt Roth
Jeff Zgonina

Don't no bout the rest of you, but that's a pretty good DL group right there. Who cares if only two of them are below 30, they still play well when it's gametime.

yourfavestoner
08-15-2006, 08:02 PM
Apparently "don't mess with Pav" is more of a plea for mercy than statement of caution.

What a juvenile point of view.

A personal shot. Cute. It's a line from a song. Oh and regarding the ridiculous idea that julius jones is a better and more productive running back than tiki barber shows your ignorance. Look at the stats, genious boy.

There's a story behind his Julius Jones quote. You should really think of spending some time reading observing the board before you come online and start posting useless dribble.

danman253
08-15-2006, 08:04 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

danman253
08-15-2006, 08:08 PM
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS

That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.



The Seahawks DL is better than the Vikings. We led the league in sacks last year. That doesn't make us the best but we are still o ne hell of a line. Rocky Bernard is a quick DL who penetrates well. Marcus Tubbs when healthy is a beast. Winstrom may be getting older but has gas in tha tank. Bryce Fischer may be the weakest of them all, and he had a great season last year, he had one of the highest sack totals on our team. James and Udeze are unproven. Pat Williams is on the downfall. Kevin Williams is good, but i'd take Bernard over him

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 08:58 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

njx9
08-15-2006, 09:05 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 10:01 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

08-15-2006, 10:03 PM
I skipped over a few pages, any mention of the Atlanta Falcons? I'd swallow my pride and say they're easily top-5 in the league with Kerney and Abraham as the bookends, and the best UT in the league, Rod Coleman.

This is how I'd rank the top 5:

1. Carolina
2. Philadelphia
3. Atlanta
4. Chicago
5. Jacksonville

danman253
08-15-2006, 10:04 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 10:05 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

You're calling the Colts DL overrated now, and you've called Wayne overrated many times in the recent past.

cunningham06
08-15-2006, 10:08 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

The Colts defense HUGELY benefits from the offense. The offense had very little trouble scoring points, and would put opposing teams in huge holes. The front 7 of the Colts are pretty much geared towards pass defense, they aren't great at run stuffing. Their defensive line is good but it only really excells at pass rushing and isn't great against the run. The Colts defense is pretty good, but don't think for a second that it could carry the team like defense has for the Ravens in the past.

njx9
08-15-2006, 10:11 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

nope, but i think the fact that you're basically denying that the offense may have helped the defense is a bit homeristic. you don't have to hate your team, but if you're going to call someone out for constantly underrating a team that has failed completely in games that matter... well.

danman253
08-15-2006, 10:16 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

You're calling the Colts DL overrated now, and you've called Wayne overrated many times in the recent past.Thats true on wayne, cuz he is. But i never said the Line was overrated. I said they were good, but not top 5 at all

08-15-2006, 10:27 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

You're calling the Colts DL overrated now, and you've called Wayne overrated many times in the recent past.Thats true on wayne, cuz he is. But i never said the Line was overrated. I said they were good, but not top 5 at all

I'm not a Colts fan, but I don't know how you can call Reggie Wayne overrated. It's not like he's considered a top 5 receiver. He's generally considered a top 10 or 15 receiver in the league, and that's exactly what he is.

sweetness34
08-15-2006, 10:30 PM
My bad on Buckner. Yea, I remember hearing about him being an F/A this season. But still, Carolina has 3 top tier D-Lineman in Peppers, Rucker, and Jenkins.

They're stiil #1 in my book...

yodabear
08-15-2006, 10:35 PM
Panthers. Rams are the best though.

Basileus777
08-15-2006, 10:36 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

You're calling the Colts DL overrated now, and you've called Wayne overrated many times in the recent past.Thats true on wayne, cuz he is. But i never said the Line was overrated. I said they were good, but not top 5 at all

The Colts have a good dline for pass defense, its what it is set up for. The offense getts a big lead, and Freeney and co are unleashed. Their run D amounts to: get a 3 TD lead, and the other team won't be able to run much. So when they have a good lead their Dline is great. The problem is, you dont get many 3 td leads in the playoffs.

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 10:39 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

The Colts defense HUGELY benefits from the offense. The offense had very little trouble scoring points, and would put opposing teams in huge holes. The front 7 of the Colts are pretty much geared towards pass defense, they aren't great at run stuffing. Their defensive line is good but it only really excells at pass rushing and isn't great against the run. The Colts defense is pretty good, but don't think for a second that it could carry the team like defense has for the Ravens in the past.

They carried the team when the Colts offense was nonexistant in the first part of the season, but I guess that doesn't count? Just because they're not geared toward run defense doesn't mean they're a bad defense. That's what the scheme calls for.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

nope, but i think the fact that you're basically denying that the offense may have helped the defense is a bit homeristic. you don't have to hate your team, but if you're going to call someone out for constantly underrating a team that has failed completely in games that matter... well.

I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

cunningham06
08-15-2006, 10:50 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

The Colts defense HUGELY benefits from the offense. The offense had very little trouble scoring points, and would put opposing teams in huge holes. The front 7 of the Colts are pretty much geared towards pass defense, they aren't great at run stuffing. Their defensive line is good but it only really excells at pass rushing and isn't great against the run. The Colts defense is pretty good, but don't think for a second that it could carry the team like defense has for the Ravens in the past.

They carried the team when the Colts offense was nonexistant in the first part of the season, but I guess that doesn't count? Just because they're not geared toward run defense doesn't mean they're a bad defense. That's what the scheme calls for.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

nope, but i think the fact that you're basically denying that the offense may have helped the defense is a bit homeristic. you don't have to hate your team, but if you're going to call someone out for constantly underrating a team that has failed completely in games that matter... well.

I'm not denying that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

Peyton played well in the first game, he played badly against Jax, Cle, and SF. Jax was the only good team in that group. During Peytons off games the Edge was carrying the offense along with their awesome offensive line. The Colts special teams could probably carry them against CLE and SF. Both teams were terrible last season, the former losing to the Texans. The Colts defense didn't need to carry the team in those games and did well shutting down untalented offenses. :roll: They carried the team in the Jax game but that's the only real accomplishment, they aren't close to as necessary to win games as the Bears defense is. The Bears defensive line owns the Colts defensive line BTW. If a d line can't stop the run, then it isn't the best. As for the missing time argument, the Eagles starters got almost no playing time in the last two games of the season in 2004, but they made it all the way to the superbowl. If the players can't stay motivated it's their problem, it's not like they aren't practicing.

Dam8610
08-15-2006, 11:08 PM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

The Colts defense HUGELY benefits from the offense. The offense had very little trouble scoring points, and would put opposing teams in huge holes. The front 7 of the Colts are pretty much geared towards pass defense, they aren't great at run stuffing. Their defensive line is good but it only really excells at pass rushing and isn't great against the run. The Colts defense is pretty good, but don't think for a second that it could carry the team like defense has for the Ravens in the past.

They carried the team when the Colts offense was nonexistant in the first part of the season, but I guess that doesn't count? Just because they're not geared toward run defense doesn't mean they're a bad defense. That's what the scheme calls for.

I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

nope, but i think the fact that you're basically denying that the offense may have helped the defense is a bit homeristic. you don't have to hate your team, but if you're going to call someone out for constantly underrating a team that has failed completely in games that matter... well.

I'm not denying that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

Peyton played well in the first game, he played badly against Jax, Cle, and SF. Jax was the only good team in that group. During Peytons off games the Edge was carrying the offense along with their awesome offensive line. The Colts special teams could probably carry them against CLE and SF. Both teams were terrible last season, the former losing to the Texans. The Colts defense didn't need to carry the team in those games and did well shutting down untalented offenses. :roll: They carried the team in the Jax game but that's the only real accomplishment, they aren't close to as necessary to win games as the Bears defense is. The Bears defensive line owns the Colts defensive line BTW. If a d line can't stop the run, then it isn't the best. As for the missing time argument, the Eagles starters got almost no playing time in the last two games of the season in 2004, but they made it all the way to the superbowl. If the players can't stay motivated it's their problem, it's not like they aren't practicing.

Yeah, James "carried the offense" to a "huge" 7 point lead against Jacksonville. I know Cleveland and SF are not the best of offenses, but it's not like those are the only games the Colts defense was good in either. Take, for example, the Steelers, who had the 9th ranked scoring offense in the NFL, but only scored 7 points against the Colts defense, and that was only due to the defense putting them 7 yards away from the endzone. I never said the Colts DL was the best, I just think it's top 5 and deserves to be mentioned before such lines as Minnesota or Baltimore. As for your argument countering mine, if a team doesn't play a meaningful game in over a month, they're bound to be rusty. In their first 3 drives the Steelers scored 2 TDs. In the rest of the game, they scored 1. You don't find that odd in any way? Maybe that had something to do with not playing a meaningful game in over a month?

danman253
08-16-2006, 12:25 AM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

You're calling the Colts DL overrated now, and you've called Wayne overrated many times in the recent past.Thats true on wayne, cuz he is. But i never said the Line was overrated. I said they were good, but not top 5 at all

I'm not a Colts fan, but I don't know how you can call Reggie Wayne overrated. It's not like he's considered a top 5 receiver. He's generally considered a top 10 or 15 receiver in the league, and that's exactly what he is.

I don't consider him that at all. Many people believe he can be a number 1 receiver in the NFl, which i don't buy for a second. The Colts offense is so talented the secondary players Like Him Stokely and Clark seem better than they really are. I would maybe have him at 15, but i just don't really think Reggie Wayne is a true #1 WR, as some people feel.

jsagan77
08-16-2006, 12:39 AM
Get ready to put the skins on this list soon. Daniels, Griffin, Salve'a and Carter. They are about to have a breakout season..

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 12:52 AM
I am a DL that has 3 Pro Bowlers in it's starting lineup, and had a player finish 2nd in DPOY voting last year. My team finished 2nd in scoring defense, due in large part to me. I have not been mentioned on this thread yet. Who am I?Nice try, Colts DL is not top 5, not even close

You underrate every player and/or unit on the Colts.

and i'm sure that your opinion is completely unbiased :roll:

Well, he calls pretty much everyone on the team overrated. I don't think a team that scored the 2nd most points and allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL while playing at full strength in the regular season for only 13 of 16 games can be as bad as he wants to make them out to be. Does that make me a homer?

When did i call anyone overrated?

You're calling the Colts DL overrated now, and you've called Wayne overrated many times in the recent past.Thats true on wayne, cuz he is. But i never said the Line was overrated. I said they were good, but not top 5 at all

I'm not a Colts fan, but I don't know how you can call Reggie Wayne overrated. It's not like he's considered a top 5 receiver. He's generally considered a top 10 or 15 receiver in the league, and that's exactly what he is.

I don't consider him that at all. Many people believe he can be a number 1 receiver in the NFl, which i don't buy for a second. The Colts offense is so talented the secondary players Like Him Stokely and Clark seem better than they really are. I would maybe have him at 15, but i just don't really think Reggie Wayne is a true #1 WR, as some people feel.

Hell I had him at 16 in my WR rankings back when the "make your own rankings" thread was up. He's an awesome possession WR, but doesn't have gamebreaking speed. True #1? Maybe not. Could be the #1 option on a few teams? I think so.

Watchman
08-16-2006, 12:53 AM
The Bucs have one of the most underrated Dlines in the NFL. No wonder you don't know about them...

Sure Rice is the only one you know, and he deserves it. Rice routinely puts up 10+ sacks a year, when most teams know he is our best D lineman. The fact is Rice has 10 less career sacks than Strahan, and Strahan has played 3 more years, and he had 22 in one year. Strahan has had 7 seasons with 10 or les sacks, and Rice has one while playing with ARIZONA and us. So Rice is better than Strahan.

Our DTs have the potential to be very good. Chris Hovan played really well for, when he was though to be "washed up". Our future NT, Anthony Bryant, is a 335 pound force who will, IMO, produce similar to Warren sapp in his prime in 2 years.

Our other DE rotation is also very good. Greg Spires is Mr. Underrated, he really plays the run well and also provides with with a decent pass rush. Our other DE, Dewayne, is another young player on our DL who will break out as soon as he gets the chance to play every day.

Call me a homer, I really don't care, but I believe that the Bucs DL is Top 5 material, and will be Top 3 Material in 2 years

As a fellow Bucs fan I gotta disagree with the the top 5 ranking. Rice is the only superstar on the line. I agree that Spires is solid and underrated, but he doesn't create much of a pass rush. Hovan was a nice suprise and really helps vs. the run, but gets no pressure on the QB. Booger has never lived up to his draft status or is paycheck. I like White as a potential replacement for Spires next year.

I think they are probably a top 10 d-line, and really stepped up the run D last year, but other than Rice there is no consistent pass rush from the d-line.

I gotta go with the Bears with the best d-line, Jags probably 2nd.


To touch on the other topic going on in this thread:

I love my job, I'm driven to do my job and do it well. I guess that makes me one of the lucky ones. However, the best part about my job is it helps me provide for my family. And if the job I had now didn't allow me to do that, despite the fact that I love it, I would find a different job. That's the priority in life, that is the "center of the universe". Still that doesn't mean you don't get to enjoy other things in life. For example I was able to look at this assinine poll tonight and get a good laugh out of it.

Pav - you are making me laugh, and I remember being like you. Nothing wrong with that at all, it is part of being young.

The Legend
08-16-2006, 02:02 AM
Bears
Ravens
Eagles
Falcons
Buccs
Colts
Seahawks
Jags

TEAMS OVER VIKINGS

That's just plain ridiculous Jags and Bears might be close, other than but other than that, you are dillusional. And i'm considered the insane one on here. You must have a grudge agianst the Vikings. I don't even know who the Seahawks or Buccs have playing on there lines other than simeon rice. Call me arrogant, but if i've never heard of them, they are irrelevant. Falcons, John Abraham and Kerney are great, but who is stuffing the run? Yeah falcons have a horrible run defense, but somehow you manage to rate their line over that of the vikings. Jags, two great runstuffers who get into the backfield, but their ends aren't exactly household names. The Giants have a better line than The buccs, Hawks, Eagles, and Falcons, but you somehow forgot to mention them. And don't say that i'm a Giants homer, because if i'm not mistaken the 3 DE in the Probowl from the NFC were Peppers, Osi and Strahan. The Ravens have Suggs and an unproven Haloti on the team and you are putting them ahead of Pat and Kevin Williams, Udeze, and James. I tried to find the most well rounded NFL defensive Line in the league and this is what i got. Let's be reasonable people. If i am starting a team and i had to pick a Defensive Unit to play for me, It is Udeze and James, pure young passrushers, Pat Williams a veteran NT who not only stuffs the run, but gets into the backfeild, and Kevin Williams, another young DT who routinely disrupts plays in the backfeild and made it to the probowl at a very young age. Give me a break people. I agree, i should have put the bears in, don't give me buccs or ravens or jags or colts or anybody else.

that proves you have no football knowledge...

did you forget who lead in sacks in the nfl?

Grant Wistrom
Marcus Tubbs
Rocky Bernard
Bryce Fisher

buccs


Rice
White
Spires
McFarland
Hovan

jags

there end had more sacks then the whole vikings dline

gaints

no i just forgot to list them simple they should be on the list

ravens

Pryce
Suggs
Nagta
Green
Thomas
Gregg

you have to remember the ravens run a diffrent defence 4-6

the player above had a total of 25 sacks last year

panthers

not to take anything away from them cause they got a nice line but there starter have total of 19 sacks last year


See? This is why Pro Bowl voting is so screwed up. People like you see names that you recognize and assume that he's better than somebody you don't know. Oh yeah, and those pure pass rushers you love so much on the Vikings? They combined for five sacks.

Meanwhile, Seattle led the league in sacks, and Jacksonville led the league in sacks per pass attempt. But you don't know their defensive linemen, so they must not be good.

The Seahawks DL is better than the Vikings. We led the league in sacks last year. That doesn't make us the best but we are still one hell of a line. Rocky Bernard is a quick DL who penetrates well. Marcus Tubbs when healthy is a beast. Winstrom may be getting older but has gas in tha tank. Bryce Fischer may be the weakest of them all, and he had a great season last year, he had one of the highest sack totals on our team. James and Udeze are unproven. Pat Williams is on the downfall. Kevin Williams is good, but i'd take Bernard over him

njx9
08-16-2006, 06:56 AM
I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

Finsfan79
08-16-2006, 07:46 AM
how about seattle or miami , the two teams that lead the NFL in sacks last year for 1 and 2?

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 12:53 PM
I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

Jughead10
08-16-2006, 01:15 PM
I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

That and the Colts don't play exceptionally well coming from behind. That is how you beat the Colts. Get up by 10 early. Then you run the ball right down their throat and you can eat up huge chunks of time of possesion because no one can stop the run on that team. Brings me back to Freeney. They Steelers ran right at him that whole game and it worked.

KBear
08-16-2006, 01:22 PM
Of course I will say the Bears have the best DLine, because they are my team,but if I would not consider them, then I like the Panthers and Falcons Dlines, and I love the Jags DTs.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-16-2006, 01:25 PM
I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

That and the Colts don't play exceptionally well coming from behind. That is how you beat the Colts. Get up by 10 early. Then you run the ball right down their throat and you can eat up huge chunks of time of possesion because no one can stop the run on that team. Brings me back to Freeney. They Steelers ran right at him that whole game and it worked.


Let's not forget how San Diego occasionally used that to their advantage as well. As soon as the ball was snapped Freeney was 5 yards down the field, and was way out of position to stop the run. I was so mad at that, I actually wanted to see an undefeated team.

Don Vito
08-16-2006, 04:59 PM
1. Bears
2. Patriots
3. Panthers
4. Vikings
5. Pittsburgh

njx9
08-16-2006, 05:21 PM
I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

That and the Colts don't play exceptionally well coming from behind. That is how you beat the Colts. Get up by 10 early. Then you run the ball right down their throat and you can eat up huge chunks of time of possesion because no one can stop the run on that team. Brings me back to Freeney. They Steelers ran right at him that whole game and it worked.

enough said.

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 09:45 PM
I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

That and the Colts don't play exceptionally well coming from behind. That is how you beat the Colts. Get up by 10 early. Then you run the ball right down their throat and you can eat up huge chunks of time of possesion because no one can stop the run on that team. Brings me back to Freeney. They Steelers ran right at him that whole game and it worked.

Do you know anything about the Colts? Honestly, do you? Because if you do, you certianly don't display it. The Colts don't play well from behind? Is that why they beat the Buccaneers in 2003 after being down by 21 with 4 minutes left? Is that why Peyton Manning is at or near the top of the league in career 4th quarter game tying or game winning drives, and comeback wins? It's also extremely evident that you didn't watch that game AT ALL, because it was the Steelers' passing game that got them up early, and it was their run game that almost wound up costing them the game.


I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

That and the Colts don't play exceptionally well coming from behind. That is how you beat the Colts. Get up by 10 early. Then you run the ball right down their throat and you can eat up huge chunks of time of possesion because no one can stop the run on that team. Brings me back to Freeney. They Steelers ran right at him that whole game and it worked.


Let's not forget how San Diego occasionally used that to their advantage as well. As soon as the ball was snapped Freeney was 5 yards down the field, and was way out of position to stop the run. I was so mad at that, I actually wanted to see an undefeated team.

Let's not forget how the Colts sat 3-4 defensive starters in that game, all of which could have played if it was a must win game. I know it's unfortunate, but the Colts really didn't care about the undefeated season.


I'm not denying the fact that the Colts defense gets help from the offense, just the opinion that they get more help from their offense than other defenses do from theirs. As for failing in games that matter, the Colts never seem to have a problem with the Broncos. They wouldn't have had a problem with the Steelers if they hadn't been on a 35 day hiatus prior to the game either.

excuses and a shot at the donkeys... boy, i'm convinced. :roll:

and come on. do you really believe that having one of the best offenses in the HISTORY of the nfl isn't a bigger advantage for the colts than having the third worst offense in the nfl in chicago? are you serious?

I don't recall saying that the Colts defense is better than the Bears defense, and I'd like you to show me where I did. Since when is a combination of logic and facts "excuses"? Fact: The Steelers scored 14 of their 21 points on their first 3 drives. Fact: The Colts outscored the Steelers 18-7 after the first quarter, and 15-0 in the 4th quarter. Fact: The Colts had shut down this same offense earlier in the season. All of that corrolates with my conclusion that the 35 day hiatus had a great deal to do with the Colts not winning the game.

That and the Colts don't play exceptionally well coming from behind. That is how you beat the Colts. Get up by 10 early. Then you run the ball right down their throat and you can eat up huge chunks of time of possesion because no one can stop the run on that team. Brings me back to Freeney. They Steelers ran right at him that whole game and it worked.

enough said.

Sure, if you want to look like you don't know what you're talking about.

njx9
08-16-2006, 09:47 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 09:59 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

njx9
08-16-2006, 10:06 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

the jags, who put a whopping three points and had an incredibly average rushing attack and a rams team with no power running game (barely any running game, averaging 96 yards per game) and a 6 point lead going into the third? what does this prove about their defense's ability to play from behind?

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 10:28 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

the jags, who put a whopping three points and had an incredibly average rushing attack and a rams team with no power running game (barely any running game, averaging 96 yards per game) and a 6 point lead going into the third? what does this prove about their defense's ability to play from behind?

They were down by much more than 6 points in the Rams game, but I suppose that doesn't count because the offense made up some of that ground before halftime? I also suppose the Jaguars game doesn't count as a comeback win because it was only a 3 point defecit? Don't raise your standards just because I proved you wrong.

njx9
08-16-2006, 10:38 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

the jags, who put a whopping three points and had an incredibly average rushing attack and a rams team with no power running game (barely any running game, averaging 96 yards per game) and a 6 point lead going into the third? what does this prove about their defense's ability to play from behind?

They were down by much more than 6 points in the Rams game, but I suppose that doesn't count because the offense made up some of that ground before halftime? I also suppose the Jaguars game doesn't count as a comeback win because it was only a 3 point defecit? Don't raise your standards just because I proved you wrong.

they were down by 17 after one quarter, 6 after 2, up 4 after 3 and up 25 before an irrelevant rams score at the end.

so wow... yeah. a team that didn't really run the ball and doesn't have a power game, and a team without much of any offense to speak of that was up by 3?

sorry, these are not impressive.

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 10:45 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

the jags, who put a whopping three points and had an incredibly average rushing attack and a rams team with no power running game (barely any running game, averaging 96 yards per game) and a 6 point lead going into the third? what does this prove about their defense's ability to play from behind?

They were down by much more than 6 points in the Rams game, but I suppose that doesn't count because the offense made up some of that ground before halftime? I also suppose the Jaguars game doesn't count as a comeback win because it was only a 3 point defecit? Don't raise your standards just because I proved you wrong.

they were down by 17 after one quarter, 6 after 2, up 4 after 3 and up 25 before an irrelevant rams score at the end.

so wow... yeah. a team that didn't really run the ball and doesn't have a power game, and a team without much of any offense to speak of that was up by 3?

sorry, these are not impressive.

That's what I mean about raising your standards when I proved you wrong. First you want comeback wins. Then, when I give you comeback wins, you want "impressive" comeback wins.

Easy
08-16-2006, 10:46 PM
Dam, your avatar name should be changed from "Veteran" to "Homer."

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 10:54 PM
Dam, your avatar name should be changed from "Veteran" to "Homer."

When have the arguments I've presented not been based in fact?

Easy
08-16-2006, 11:05 PM
Dam, your avatar name should be changed from "Veteran" to "Homer."

When have the arguments I've presented not been based in fact?

Every thread lately that has dealt with the best at something, guess what your answer has been to every one? Yep, you got it, whoever plays for the Colts.

Dam8610
08-16-2006, 11:11 PM
Dam, your avatar name should be changed from "Veteran" to "Homer."

When have the arguments I've presented not been based in fact?

Every thread lately that has dealt with the best at something, guess what your answer has been to every one? Yep, you got it, whoever plays for the Colts.

Can someone please quote the post where I said the Colts' DL was the best? I don't think I ever did, so I'll need to be proven wrong before I believe that I did. As for best QB, the Colts do have that. That's pretty much the only time I said any player on the Colts was the best in the NFL.

njx9
08-17-2006, 04:25 AM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

the jags, who put a whopping three points and had an incredibly average rushing attack and a rams team with no power running game (barely any running game, averaging 96 yards per game) and a 6 point lead going into the third? what does this prove about their defense's ability to play from behind?

They were down by much more than 6 points in the Rams game, but I suppose that doesn't count because the offense made up some of that ground before halftime? I also suppose the Jaguars game doesn't count as a comeback win because it was only a 3 point defecit? Don't raise your standards just because I proved you wrong.

they were down by 17 after one quarter, 6 after 2, up 4 after 3 and up 25 before an irrelevant rams score at the end.

so wow... yeah. a team that didn't really run the ball and doesn't have a power game, and a team without much of any offense to speak of that was up by 3?

sorry, these are not impressive.

That's what I mean about raising your standards when I proved you wrong. First you want comeback wins. Then, when I give you comeback wins, you want "impressive" comeback wins.

not true. you were talking about how peyton had all these come from behind wins that proved that the colts were really good at playing from behind. i asked for recent examples. neither was a worthwhile, representative example of the colts coming from behind because of the play of their defense. i've moved back to the original point in the conversation, if you hadn't noticed.

Dam8610
08-17-2006, 03:39 PM
how many come from behind wins did the colts have last season, exactly?

vs. Jaguars (4th quarter comeback)
vs. Rams

So two. Not the most in the league, but certainly not the least.

the jags, who put a whopping three points and had an incredibly average rushing attack and a rams team with no power running game (barely any running game, averaging 96 yards per game) and a 6 point lead going into the third? what does this prove about their defense's ability to play from behind?

They were down by much more than 6 points in the Rams game, but I suppose that doesn't count because the offense made up some of that ground before halftime? I also suppose the Jaguars game doesn't count as a comeback win because it was only a 3 point defecit? Don't raise your standards just because I proved you wrong.

they were down by 17 after one quarter, 6 after 2, up 4 after 3 and up 25 before an irrelevant rams score at the end.

so wow... yeah. a team that didn't really run the ball and doesn't have a power game, and a team without much of any offense to speak of that was up by 3?

sorry, these are not impressive.

That's what I mean about raising your standards when I proved you wrong. First you want comeback wins. Then, when I give you comeback wins, you want "impressive" comeback wins.

not true. you were talking about how peyton had all these come from behind wins that proved that the colts were really good at playing from behind. i asked for recent examples. neither was a worthwhile, representative example of the colts coming from behind because of the play of their defense. i've moved back to the original point in the conversation, if you hadn't noticed.

In case you were unaware, those still count as comeback wins, whether you think they're "unimpressive" or not. You want impressive, how about a 21 point comeback in the span of 4 minutes, something that has never happened in NFL history, save once, when the Colts did it against the defending champions on the road in 2003. I suppose that doesn't count because it was in 2003? Also, the Jaguars game is a great example of the defense keeping the Colts in a game. Sure, it was only 3 points, but Peyton Manning had the worst game of his career. Had that been defenses of the recent past for the Colts, the Jaguars' lead would have been much larger in the 4th quarter. The 2005 Colts' defense, however, held them in check and gave the offense oppurtunity after oppurtunity to break through, which they eventually did en route to the 10-3 win. It would not have been possible without the outstanding play of the defense though.

njx9
08-17-2006, 07:52 PM
do you even read, or are you in such a rush to defend your precious ponies that you forget to bother arguing anything? when the hell did i say it wasn't a comeback win? i said it was a terrible example in relation to this argument. both were.

the jags offense was awful. we're debating the effectiveness of the colts run defense in a game like the steelers game, in which the other team attempted to shove the ball down their throat. you have yet to give me a positive example of any time the colts shut down a team with a good running attack.

but hey, when you're done skimming this, whine and cry about how i won't give the colts any credit for comeback wins that have no bearing on the argument at hand. remember that one? the one you're still not winning?

Dam8610
08-17-2006, 11:12 PM
do you even read, or are you in such a rush to defend your precious ponies that you forget to bother arguing anything? when the hell did i say it wasn't a comeback win? i said it was a terrible example in relation to this argument. both were.

the jags offense was awful. we're debating the effectiveness of the colts run defense in a game like the steelers game, in which the other team attempted to shove the ball down their throat. you have yet to give me a positive example of any time the colts shut down a team with a good running attack.

but hey, when you're done skimming this, whine and cry about how i won't give the colts any credit for comeback wins that have no bearing on the argument at hand. remember that one? the one you're still not winning?

:lol: Oh, so you're still clinging to the false notion that the Steelers' run game is what won them that game?

Tell me, how did the Steelers score their first two TDs of the game? How many points did they score after the first quarter? How many points did they allow after the first quarter? How did they give the ball back to the Colts to attempt their final drive?

If you answer these questions correctly, you'll realize just how "effective" the Steelers' run game was in that game, and how "poorly" the Colts' run defense performed in it.

randymoss18
08-18-2006, 07:08 AM
giants

njx9
08-18-2006, 09:13 AM
do you even read, or are you in such a rush to defend your precious ponies that you forget to bother arguing anything? when the hell did i say it wasn't a comeback win? i said it was a terrible example in relation to this argument. both were.

the jags offense was awful. we're debating the effectiveness of the colts run defense in a game like the steelers game, in which the other team attempted to shove the ball down their throat. you have yet to give me a positive example of any time the colts shut down a team with a good running attack.

but hey, when you're done skimming this, whine and cry about how i won't give the colts any credit for comeback wins that have no bearing on the argument at hand. remember that one? the one you're still not winning?
:lol: Oh, so you're still clinging to the false notion that the Steelers' run game is what won them that game?

Tell me, how did the Steelers score their first two TDs of the game? How many points did they score after the first quarter? How many points did they allow after the first quarter? How did they give the ball back to the Colts to attempt their final drive?

If you answer these questions correctly, you'll realize just how "effective" the Steelers' run game was in that game, and how "poorly" the Colts' run defense performed in it.


so they had nearly 9 more minutes of posession because their passing game was so effective? are you kidding? you don't think their running game was effective because of a single, unforced bettis fumble? take off the blue and white glasses man. jesus.

let me guess... next you're going to say something obnoxious along the lines of "well they only had 112 rushing yards! that means we were awesome!!!!!" spare me. they ran (not counting roethlisberger's 5 "carries"), 37 for 115 yards. that's a lot of clock eating. as evidenced by the time of posession.

the steelers ran the ball down the colts throat, over and over, and really should have won the game 28-18 if bettis hadn't dropped the ball on the ground.

oh... right. lastly, you'll probably say something about how few yards the steelers got. steelers fans correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't recall anyone calling this a dynamic rushing attack. they shoved the ball down your throat, and you couldn't stop them. the fact that they converted two 4th downs by running the ball straight at you confirms that. if that defensive line had had any guts, they would've stopped at least one of those, and more so since both were in the 4th quarter when indy was very much still in the game.

please, keep trying to prove to me that indy's d-line is even marginally effective against the run. this is getting to be fairly entertaining.

Jags#7
08-18-2006, 10:19 AM
I gotta say i like the Patriots DL

DE Richard Seymour
DT-Vince Wilfork
DE Ty Warren

It is solid at every position

Jags is in the top 5.....the problem is that the have 2 elite DT, 1 very good DE and 1 average DE (paul spicer)....if we had trevor price or someone like that there i would say jags are #1

Dam8610
08-18-2006, 11:14 AM
do you even read, or are you in such a rush to defend your precious ponies that you forget to bother arguing anything? when the hell did i say it wasn't a comeback win? i said it was a terrible example in relation to this argument. both were.

the jags offense was awful. we're debating the effectiveness of the colts run defense in a game like the steelers game, in which the other team attempted to shove the ball down their throat. you have yet to give me a positive example of any time the colts shut down a team with a good running attack.

but hey, when you're done skimming this, whine and cry about how i won't give the colts any credit for comeback wins that have no bearing on the argument at hand. remember that one? the one you're still not winning?
:lol: Oh, so you're still clinging to the false notion that the Steelers' run game is what won them that game?

Tell me, how did the Steelers score their first two TDs of the game? How many points did they score after the first quarter? How many points did they allow after the first quarter? How did they give the ball back to the Colts to attempt their final drive?

If you answer these questions correctly, you'll realize just how "effective" the Steelers' run game was in that game, and how "poorly" the Colts' run defense performed in it.


so they had nearly 9 more minutes of posession because their passing game was so effective? are you kidding? you don't think their running game was effective because of a single, unforced bettis fumble? take off the blue and white glasses man. jesus.

let me guess... next you're going to say something obnoxious along the lines of "well they only had 112 rushing yards! that means we were awesome!!!!!" spare me. they ran (not counting roethlisberger's 5 "carries"), 37 for 115 yards. that's a lot of clock eating. as evidenced by the time of posession.

the steelers ran the ball down the colts throat, over and over, and really should have won the game 28-18 if bettis hadn't dropped the ball on the ground.

oh... right. lastly, you'll probably say something about how few yards the steelers got. steelers fans correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't recall anyone calling this a dynamic rushing attack. they shoved the ball down your throat, and you couldn't stop them. the fact that they converted two 4th downs by running the ball straight at you confirms that. if that defensive line had had any guts, they would've stopped at least one of those, and more so since both were in the 4th quarter when indy was very much still in the game.

please, keep trying to prove to me that indy's d-line is even marginally effective against the run. this is getting to be fairly entertaining.

I don't think their running game was effective, because not only was it NOT the reason they won the game, but it almost WAS the reason they lost the game, and you'd know that had you answered the questions I gave you instead of ignoring them. Unforced Bettis fumble? Yeah, I suppose Gary Brackett's helmet hitting the football squarely had NOTHING to do with that fumble. :roll: So, you're saying 3.1 YPC is a good average? Seems like a pretty low average to me, since league average is about 4.1. So what if they converted 2 4th downs? Did it really matter in the end? Considering the Colts had 2 more possessions in which they had the ability to tie the game after that, which is what the Steelers were trying to avoid by going for those 2 4th downs, I don't think it mattered too much. Go back and answer the questions I posed to you in my last post, and once you do, maybe we can continue this argument with both of us having an understanding of what happened in that game instead of just one.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-18-2006, 11:24 AM
do you even read, or are you in such a rush to defend your precious ponies that you forget to bother arguing anything? when the hell did i say it wasn't a comeback win? i said it was a terrible example in relation to this argument. both were.

the jags offense was awful. we're debating the effectiveness of the colts run defense in a game like the steelers game, in which the other team attempted to shove the ball down their throat. you have yet to give me a positive example of any time the colts shut down a team with a good running attack.

but hey, when you're done skimming this, whine and cry about how i won't give the colts any credit for comeback wins that have no bearing on the argument at hand. remember that one? the one you're still not winning?
:lol: Oh, so you're still clinging to the false notion that the Steelers' run game is what won them that game?

Tell me, how did the Steelers score their first two TDs of the game? How many points did they score after the first quarter? How many points did they allow after the first quarter? How did they give the ball back to the Colts to attempt their final drive?

If you answer these questions correctly, you'll realize just how "effective" the Steelers' run game was in that game, and how "poorly" the Colts' run defense performed in it.


so they had nearly 9 more minutes of posession because their passing game was so effective? are you kidding? you don't think their running game was effective because of a single, unforced bettis fumble? take off the blue and white glasses man. jesus.

let me guess... next you're going to say something obnoxious along the lines of "well they only had 112 rushing yards! that means we were awesome!!!!!" spare me. they ran (not counting roethlisberger's 5 "carries"), 37 for 115 yards. that's a lot of clock eating. as evidenced by the time of posession.

the steelers ran the ball down the colts throat, over and over, and really should have won the game 28-18 if bettis hadn't dropped the ball on the ground.

oh... right. lastly, you'll probably say something about how few yards the steelers got. steelers fans correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't recall anyone calling this a dynamic rushing attack. they shoved the ball down your throat, and you couldn't stop them. the fact that they converted two 4th downs by running the ball straight at you confirms that. if that defensive line had had any guts, they would've stopped at least one of those, and more so since both were in the 4th quarter when indy was very much still in the game.

please, keep trying to prove to me that indy's d-line is even marginally effective against the run. this is getting to be fairly entertaining.

I don't think their running game was effective, because not only was it NOT the reason they won the game, but it almost WAS the reason they lost the game, and you'd know that had you answered the questions I gave you instead of ignoring them. Unforced Bettis fumble? Yeah, I suppose Gary Brackett's helmet hitting the football squarely had NOTHING to do with that fumble. :roll: So, you're saying 3.1 YPC is a good average? Seems like a pretty low average to me, since league average is about 4.1. So what if they converted 2 4th downs? Did it really matter in the end? Considering the Colts had 2 more possessions in which they had the ability to tie the game after that, which is what the Steelers were trying to avoid by going for those 2 4th downs, I don't think it mattered too much. Go back and answer the questions I posed to you in my last post, and once you do, maybe we can continue this argument with both of us having an understanding of what happened in that game instead of just one.


What he means is that it was 37 carries, and that eats the clock up a fair bit. And converting on fourth down obviosuly DOES mean something. It means the Colts couldn't stop them when they needed to. And come on, you know that if that play happened 100 times, Bettis might have fumbled just once or twice more. That was some luck they had there.

njx9
08-18-2006, 11:31 AM
:roll:

two touchdowns through the air (the gamewinner was on the ground, but you didn't ask, so it must've been an irrelevant part of the game, right?).

7 (the 7 that won the game).

what's funny is that you don't understand football well enough to understand that those two facts make my argument stronger. not to mention the fact that you'd rather just talk louder in the hopes that SOMEONE will come to your rescue and say SOMETHING that makes the colts defensive line look like it can actually stop a determined power running game.

they scored two quick touchdowns. then, they ground out the rest of the clock time. this is called, winning the game with the run. what are you trying to prove here? that the colts couldn't stop the pass in the first quarter but they stopped the run so well after that that they couldn't ever seem to get the ball back? that the time of posession difference all occured in the first quarter when the steelers were throwing monster 6 and 7 yard touchdown passes? that you don't have the first clue about how a running team uses short runs to wear down a defense and control the ball (which they did to the tune of 9 extra minutes of possession)?

tell me, how the running game didn't win them that game, when it a) kept the colts team off the field for almost an entire quarter's worth of play and b) scored the winning touchdown? is it because the colts d-line was so superb in getting the colts the ball back? was it because bettis coughed the ball up for only the second time all year (which is, surprisingly, NOT indicative of a strong run defense in this case)? maybe it's because you really won that game and no one noticed?

how do the 4th downs matter?!?!?! YOU WERE BEHIND IN THE GAME AT THAT POINT. do you think dungy told the defense to just go out and let the steelers convert? YOU ABSOLUTELY FAILED TO STOP THEM IN TWO KEY SITUATIONS. period. endc of discussion. full stop. your defensive line was nto up to the task of stopping the steelers run game that day.

*yawn*

does ignorance actually hurt, or is it more of a dull ache?

Dam8610
08-18-2006, 11:53 AM
:roll:

two touchdowns through the air (the gamewinner was on the ground, but you didn't ask, so it must've been an irrelevant part of the game, right?).

7 (the 7 that won the game).

what's funny is that you don't understand football well enough to understand that those two facts make my argument stronger. not to mention the fact that you'd rather just talk louder in the hopes that SOMEONE will come to your rescue and say SOMETHING that makes the colts defensive line look like it can actually stop a determined power running game.

they scored two quick touchdowns. then, they ground out the rest of the clock time. this is called, winning the game with the run. what are you trying to prove here? that the colts couldn't stop the pass in the first quarter but they stopped the run so well after that that they couldn't ever seem to get the ball back? that the time of posession difference all occured in the first quarter when the steelers were throwing monster 6 and 7 yard touchdown passes? that you don't have the first clue about how a running team uses short runs to wear down a defense and control the ball (which they did to the tune of 9 extra minutes of possession)?

tell me, how the running game didn't win them that game, when it a) kept the colts team off the field for almost an entire quarter's worth of play and b) scored the winning touchdown? is it because the colts d-line was so superb in getting the colts the ball back? was it because bettis coughed the ball up for only the second time all year (which is, surprisingly, NOT indicative of a strong run defense in this case)? maybe it's because you really won that game and no one noticed?

how do the 4th downs matter?!?!?! YOU WERE BEHIND IN THE GAME AT THAT POINT. do you think dungy told the defense to just go out and let the steelers convert? YOU ABSOLUTELY FAILED TO STOP THEM IN TWO KEY SITUATIONS. period. endc of discussion. full stop. your defensive line was nto up to the task of stopping the steelers run game that day.

*yawn*

does ignorance actually hurt, or is it more of a dull ache?

Again you only choose to read what you want. What you don't want to acknowledge is that in the time they scored all of 7 points, they allowed 18 and the Colts back into the game. Their pass game is what got them up big, but when they went away from that pass game, they struggled to move the ball, didn't continue to put points on the board, and as a result, came very close to letting a game they had in control after a quarter completely slip away. Had Vanderjagt's field goal attempt been made, that would have been called losing the game with the run. How do you win a game with a run game when that run game isn't accomplishing the goals you want it to? In the second half and 4th quarter specifially, they were trying to play keep away from the Colts, yet found themselves outscored 15-7 in the half and 15-0 in the final quarter. On the drive where they converted those two 4th downs you're so adamant about, the goal was to try to limit the Colts to one possession in which to drive the ball down the field. They ended up with two after that, one of which they drove successfully into field goal range with. You're right, that running game sure did what it set out to do in those two situations. Ignorace is a condition caused by ignoring the factual evidence, even when overwhelmed by it, and continuing to argue against it. I've given you just about all the facts there are from that game, all of which countering what you're saying, yet you continue to argue against it.

yourfavestoner
08-18-2006, 12:08 PM
I gotta say i like the Patriots DL

DE Richard Seymour
DT-Vince Wilfork
DE Ty Warren

It is solid at every position

Jags is in the top 5.....the problem is that the have 2 elite DT, 1 very good DE and 1 average DE (paul spicer)....if we had trevor price or someone like that there i would say jags are #1

Trevor Pryce is living off of his name at this point in his career. Rob Meier was more effective in his DE/DT role than Pryce was, and Meier only played part time.

Paul Spicer is a really underappreciated part of the Jaguars' offensive line. He had 7.5 sacks, which is really good for a run-stopping defensive end who plays in a rotation. It's even more impressive considering that he plays RE on run downs, so he's usually facing the opposing teams' best pass blocker.

elway777
08-18-2006, 01:03 PM
I gotta say i like the Patriots DL

DE Richard Seymour
DT-Vince Wilfork
DE Ty Warren

It is solid at every position

Jags is in the top 5.....the problem is that the have 2 elite DT, 1 very good DE and 1 average DE (paul spicer)....if we had trevor price or someone like that there i would say jags are #1

Trevor Pryce is living off of his name at this point in his career. Rob Meier was more effective in his DE/DT role than Pryce was, and Meier only played part time.

Paul Spicer is a really underappreciated part of the Jaguars' offensive line. He had 7.5 sacks, which is really good for a run-stopping defensive end who plays in a rotation. It's even more impressive considering that he plays RE on run downs, so he's usually facing the opposing teams' best pass blocker.

Ever since that injury Pryce has gotten out of shape and and doesn't rush the QB as he used to.

D?ja V?
08-18-2006, 02:03 PM
Teams with better defensive lines than the Vikings IMO:

Seahawks: Their entire rotation of Rocky Bernard, Bryce Fisher, Grant Wistrom, Marcus Tubbs, Chartric Darby, Craig Terrill, throw in new comers, rookie Darryl Tapp and Cardinal import Russell Davis, this line could lead the league in sacks again.

Falcons: The addition of John Abraham helps, no doubt, and it could make Rod Coleman and Patrick Kerney even more dangerous, now they just need a skilled Nose Tackle and this could be the best line in football.

Giants: Osi Umenyiora and Michael Strahan are sack machines, Mathias Kiwanuka and Justin Tuck are two more dangerous ends that they have as well. If William Joseph can get into first round form and they can get another DT to do something for them, watch out NFC East.

Jaguars: The best interior line in the league without a doubt and a sack artist and a run stuffer outside, yeah, I'd take that.

Dolphins: Jason Taylor is still putting up great numbers, Kevin Carter got back into his old self last season and Vonnie Holliday looked good again too, lets find something other than size that we can credit Keith Traylor for. Then they have some solid backups in Jeff Zgonia, newly acquired Dan Wilkinson, Matt Roth and David Bowens.

Panthers: Julius Peppers is a beast in all aspects of the game, Kris Jenkins is amazing, when healthy, they down graded at tackle opposite Jenkins by letting Buckner go and Rucker is a producer because the rest of the defense makes him look better.

Ravens: Ngata is huge, Pryce can play any spot on the line well, T-Sizzle and Adalius Thomas are pass rushing DE/OLB who can drop into coverage, this line can get it done.

Eagles: The Freak will or should get back into his sack monster form when he was with the Titans now that there are some other players on the line. Darren Howard is good, Mike Patterson and Darwin Walker can get it done. The backups are probably best in the league, up there with the Seahawks and Dolphins. Ed Jasper, Brodrick Bunkley, Jerome McDougle and Trent Cole (OLB/DE).

The Vikings line has a lot of potential with Udeze and James both being very young and only entering their third and second seasons and Kevin Williams is a great pass rushing tackle, but until they can get Udeze and James rolling and a good replacement for Pat Williams who is well past his prime, they aren't that great. And I don't know if I would rather have Kevin Williams or Terrell Suggs who was picked one spot after Williams, meh.

haccess
08-18-2006, 05:57 PM
Panthers: Julius Peppers is a beast in all aspects of the game, Kris Jenkins is amazing, when healthy, they down graded at tackle opposite Jenkins by letting Buckner go and Rucker is a producer because the rest of the defense makes him look better.
I'll admit Buckner played a big role as far as leadership and inspiration goes, but Ma'ake Kemoeatu is a pretty huge upgrade in ability. Having 700 lbs worth of Jenkins and Kemo clogging up the middle is going to be awe-inspiring.

Basileus777
08-18-2006, 06:24 PM
Kemoeatu has become way overrated. He is a good run stuffer and a solid tackle, nothing more.

Canadian_kid16
08-18-2006, 07:44 PM
The Pats D has an amazing front 3

Seymour, best 3-4 DE
Wilfork, perenial Pro Bowler
Warren, will emerge this year

tylaw24
08-21-2006, 11:49 AM
The Pats D has an amazing front 3

Seymour, best 3-4 DE
Wilfork, perenial Pro Bowler
Warren, will emerge this year
Not many people are posting NE as a top d-line in their lists. I'd have to say it's between the Bears, the Seahawks, and the Giants.

Smooth Criminal
08-21-2006, 07:57 PM
The Pats D has an amazing front 3

Seymour, best 3-4 DE
Wilfork, perenial Pro Bowler
Warren, will emerge this year
Not many people are posting NE as a top d-line in their lists. I'd have to say it's between the Bears, the Seahawks, and the Giants.

Thats cause they run a 3-4. 3-4 defenses never really get respect along the line.

Shiver
08-21-2006, 08:07 PM
Falcons: The addition of John Abraham helps, no doubt, and it could make Rod Coleman and Patrick Kerney even more dangerous, now they just need a skilled Nose Tackle and this could be the best line in football

Ahem..

Concerned about buttressing their defensive front, the Falcons have contacted behemoth nose tackle Grady Jackson, a free agent who played with the Green Bay Packers last season.

"I'm talking to them a little bit," said Angelo Wright, Jackson's agent out of Hayward, Calif. "Atlanta is a good situation."

Jackson visited the New York Jets and the New York Giants last week and is drawing interest from other teams, according to Wright. Jackson visited the Falcons back in March but was not offered a contract.

Jackson, at 6-feet-2, 355 pounds, is a run-stopper who keeps blockers off the linebackers. He has also played for Oakland and New Orleans during his nine-year career. He played parts of the 2003 season in Green Bay under current Falcons defensive coordinator Ed Donatell.

The Falcons have started Darrell Shropshire at defensive tackle in two exhibition games. Chad Lavalais started 14 games at the position last season. The Falcons have also taken long looks at undrafted rookie free agents Tommy Jackson and Michael Bozeman in the two exhibitions.

Grady Jackson would play in obvious running situations with the hope that he'd occupy two blockers and penetrate into the backfield.

Falcons coach Jim Mora wants to use a six- or seven-man defensive line rotation. He plans to play Chauncey Davis in relief of the ends and Johnathan Babineaux for Rod Coleman at defensive tackle.

"I want to try to utilize at least a six- or seven-man rotation up front and do it early in the game so those guys are fresh late," Mora said. "We want to start working on that now."

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/0822falrail.html

Add that 350-pounder to the Falcons D-Line, they're easily the best. I have my fingers crossed Rich McKay signs him.

RE - John Abraham
NT - Grady Jackson
UT - Rod Coleman
LE - Patrick Kerney

*drools*

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-21-2006, 08:27 PM
Falcons: The addition of John Abraham helps, no doubt, and it could make Rod Coleman and Patrick Kerney even more dangerous, now they just need a skilled Nose Tackle and this could be the best line in football

Ahem..

Concerned about buttressing their defensive front, the Falcons have contacted behemoth nose tackle Grady Jackson, a free agent who played with the Green Bay Packers last season.

"I'm talking to them a little bit," said Angelo Wright, Jackson's agent out of Hayward, Calif. "Atlanta is a good situation."

Jackson visited the New York Jets and the New York Giants last week and is drawing interest from other teams, according to Wright. Jackson visited the Falcons back in March but was not offered a contract.

Jackson, at 6-feet-2, 355 pounds, is a run-stopper who keeps blockers off the linebackers. He has also played for Oakland and New Orleans during his nine-year career. He played parts of the 2003 season in Green Bay under current Falcons defensive coordinator Ed Donatell.

The Falcons have started Darrell Shropshire at defensive tackle in two exhibition games. Chad Lavalais started 14 games at the position last season. The Falcons have also taken long looks at undrafted rookie free agents Tommy Jackson and Michael Bozeman in the two exhibitions.

Grady Jackson would play in obvious running situations with the hope that he'd occupy two blockers and penetrate into the backfield.

Falcons coach Jim Mora wants to use a six- or seven-man defensive line rotation. He plans to play Chauncey Davis in relief of the ends and Johnathan Babineaux for Rod Coleman at defensive tackle.

"I want to try to utilize at least a six- or seven-man rotation up front and do it early in the game so those guys are fresh late," Mora said. "We want to start working on that now."

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/0822falrail.html

Add that 350-pounder to the Falcons D-Line, they're easily the best. I have my fingers crossed Rich McKay signs him.

RE - John Abraham
NT - Grady Jackson
UT - Rod Coleman
LE - Patrick Kerney

*drools*

*thanks god im not a QB in the NFC South*

08-22-2006, 08:57 PM
dude where r the jaguars they got Marcus Stroud and John Henderson plus the underatted Reggie Hayward they r the @nd best behind the panthers

08-23-2006, 04:12 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
How old are you?

I like the Vikings D-line a lot but at this point you can't say they are better than the Bears. If James and Udeze have seasons comparable to the ones O-Gun and Alex Brown had last year then you could make that argument, but they haven't yet.

And Ian Scott is the other starter. If you want to make a list like this you should at least inform yourself on the other teams. Not to mention that depth is a HUGE component in terms of ranking defensive lines.

Here are some other options for consideration besides the Bears:
Jaguars
Chargers
Ravens
Steelers
Seahawks
Bucs (not really but I'll throw them out there anyway) i think your lost why did u put the chargers on there they have no defense

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-23-2006, 04:30 PM
The Chicago Bears, hands down.

ogunyele, brown, harris, tank williams (is he the other dt?)

i don't know about that, i'd take vikings and panthers over the bears d-line. The linebackers are probably the best, but not the d-line.
How old are you?

I like the Vikings D-line a lot but at this point you can't say they are better than the Bears. If James and Udeze have seasons comparable to the ones O-Gun and Alex Brown had last year then you could make that argument, but they haven't yet.

And Ian Scott is the other starter. If you want to make a list like this you should at least inform yourself on the other teams. Not to mention that depth is a HUGE component in terms of ranking defensive lines.

Here are some other options for consideration besides the Bears:
Jaguars
Chargers
Ravens
Steelers
Seahawks
Bucs (not really but I'll throw them out there anyway) i think your lost why did u put the chargers on there they have no defense


They have one of the best NT's around, and 2 very good 3-4 DEs. The best line, no, but deserving of mention? I'd say so. He listed 6 others, so to name them isnt a stretch.

P-L
08-23-2006, 04:33 PM
I like the Bears DL. I think they are top 3. But to say they are the undisputed #1 is a complete joke of a comment. They were out-produced by at least 4 or 5 other DL last year. If you are just judging on sacks than I believe the Bears had the #2 or #3 pair of DE last year. If you base it on total production there were about the 4th or 5th best. Again, I still think they are top 3 (I know you can't just judge on production) but to say it is not even close is just foolish.

Smooth Criminal
08-23-2006, 05:13 PM
You can't compare a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line. Its just not fair. Tehy have different jobs.

The best 3-4 line is either the Steelers or the Pats.

The Steelers have the best NT and a very good DE in Aaron Smith. Brett Keisel is good and will show it this year.

The Pats have the best 3-4 DE and a good NT in Vince Wilfork who has a ton of potential. Warrne should emerge and be good this year4 aswell.

as the 4-3 I think the Panthers are 1, Bears 2, Jaguars 3, Ravens 4 and Falcons come in 5th. The Vikings have potential and will crack the top 5 eventually.

Moses
08-23-2006, 05:53 PM
You can't compare a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line. Its just not fair. Tehy have different jobs.

The best 3-4 line is either the Steelers or the Pats.

The Steelers have the best NT and a very good DE in Aaron Smith. Brett Keisel is good and will show it this year.

The Pats have the best 3-4 DE and a very good NT in Vince Wilfork. Warrne should emerge and be good this year4 aswell.

as the 4-3 I think the Panthers are 1, Bears 2, Jaguars 3 and Vikings 4.

Don't forget about the San Diego Chargers if you're talking about great 3-4 defensive lines.

DE: Luis Castillo
NT: Jamal Williams
DE: Igor Olshansky

America
08-23-2006, 06:20 PM
In the 3-4, the Chargers and Pats have the best lines. In the 4-3, the Panthers and Falcons have the best lines. Several others(Bears, Jags) are as good or close to as good as those 2 though. The Vikings line is overhyped. The Ravens have the most versitile line and the Bears have the best young talent on their line IMO.

Smooth Criminal
08-23-2006, 06:38 PM
You can't compare a 3-4 line to a 4-3 line. Its just not fair. Tehy have different jobs.

The best 3-4 line is either the Steelers or the Pats.

The Steelers have the best NT and a very good DE in Aaron Smith. Brett Keisel is good and will show it this year.

The Pats have the best 3-4 DE and a very good NT in Vince Wilfork. Warrne should emerge and be good this year4 aswell.

as the 4-3 I think the Panthers are 1, Bears 2, Jaguars 3 and Vikings 4.

Don't forget about the San Diego Chargers if you're talking about great 3-4 defensive lines.

DE: Luis Castillo
NT: Jamal Williams
DE: Igor Olshansky

I don't think they are the top yet. When you look at the Steelers and Pats they have established guys while the Chargers have some young guys with a ton of potential. I'd like to see more of Castillo and Olshansky before we call this line the best 3-4 D-line.

Smooth Criminal
08-23-2006, 06:40 PM
In the 3-4, the Chargers and Pats have the best lines. In the 4-3, the Panthers and Falcons have the best lines. Several others(Bears, Jags) are as good or close to as good as those 2 though. The Vikings line is overhyped. The Ravens have the most versitile line and the Bears have the best young talent on their line IMO.

The Vikings have two DEs with alot of potential. Since this is a NFL draft board people tend to overrated the early draft picks early in their career. Their DEs have alot of potential but they arn't among the best in the league yet. Same goes for the Chargers with Castillo.

America
08-23-2006, 07:37 PM
In the 3-4, the Chargers and Pats have the best lines. In the 4-3, the Panthers and Falcons have the best lines. Several others(Bears, Jags) are as good or close to as good as those 2 though. The Vikings line is overhyped. The Ravens have the most versitile line and the Bears have the best young talent on their line IMO.

The Vikings have two DEs with alot of potential. Since this is a NFL draft board people tend to overrated the early draft picks early in their career. Their DEs have alot of potential but they arn't among the best in the league yet. Same goes for the Chargers with Castillo.

Well with the Chargers, Castillo hasn't developed, but he played on a very good level last year. He, unlike the Vikings young DEs, has proven to be a solid player. Olshanksy is almost as good as he will ever be. Williams is one of the top NTs. In NE, Warren and Wilfork are fairly young and have room to grow, as they have massive potentials. Seymour is already established. In Pittsburgh, Keisel is a 1st time starter with much less potential than the other dlineman being mentioned. Smith and Hampton are both solid Pro Bowlers. Pat Williams isn't nearly as good as he used to be. Kevin Williams has to step it up, he's still got loads of potential. Udeze and James aren't proven on any level. They're also both going into a new system. Not that they aren't a good line, I just think they are overrated and unproven at this point.

Smooth Criminal
08-23-2006, 07:52 PM
In the 3-4, the Chargers and Pats have the best lines. In the 4-3, the Panthers and Falcons have the best lines. Several others(Bears, Jags) are as good or close to as good as those 2 though. The Vikings line is overhyped. The Ravens have the most versitile line and the Bears have the best young talent on their line IMO.

The Vikings have two DEs with alot of potential. Since this is a NFL draft board people tend to overrated the early draft picks early in their career. Their DEs have alot of potential but they arn't among the best in the league yet. Same goes for the Chargers with Castillo.

Well with the Chargers, Castillo hasn't developed, but he played on a very good level last year. He, unlike the Vikings young DEs, has proven to be a solid player. Olshanksy is almost as good as he will ever be. Williams is one of the top NTs. In NE, Warren and Wilfork are fairly young and have room to grow, as they have massive potentials. Seymour is already established. In Pittsburgh, Keisel is a 1st time starter with much less potential than the other dlineman being mentioned. Smith and Hampton are both solid Pro Bowlers. Pat Williams isn't nearly as good as he used to be. Kevin Williams has to step it up, he's still got loads of potential. Udeze and James aren't proven on any level. They're also both going into a new system. Not that they aren't a good line, I just think they are overrated and unproven at this point.

I agree with almost everything you said there. Plus you proved my point as to why the Steelers line is the best 3-4 right now. Not in a year or two but right now they are.
But I agree that the Vikings are overrated. I don't think they are in the top 5 4-3 D-lines. They have potential to be great with the pair of DEs they have there.

America
08-23-2006, 08:12 PM
In the 3-4, the Chargers and Pats have the best lines. In the 4-3, the Panthers and Falcons have the best lines. Several others(Bears, Jags) are as good or close to as good as those 2 though. The Vikings line is overhyped. The Ravens have the most versitile line and the Bears have the best young talent on their line IMO.

The Vikings have two DEs with alot of potential. Since this is a NFL draft board people tend to overrated the early draft picks early in their career. Their DEs have alot of potential but they arn't among the best in the league yet. Same goes for the Chargers with Castillo.

Well with the Chargers, Castillo hasn't developed, but he played on a very good level last year. He, unlike the Vikings young DEs, has proven to be a solid player. Olshanksy is almost as good as he will ever be. Williams is one of the top NTs. In NE, Warren and Wilfork are fairly young and have room to grow, as they have massive potentials. Seymour is already established. In Pittsburgh, Keisel is a 1st time starter with much less potential than the other dlineman being mentioned. Smith and Hampton are both solid Pro Bowlers. Pat Williams isn't nearly as good as he used to be. Kevin Williams has to step it up, he's still got loads of potential. Udeze and James aren't proven on any level. They're also both going into a new system. Not that they aren't a good line, I just think they are overrated and unproven at this point.

I agree with almost everything you said there. Plus you proved my point as to why the Steelers line is the best 3-4 right now. Not in a year or two but right now they are.
But I agree that the Vikings are overrated. I don't think they are in the top 5 4-3 D-lines. They have potential to be great with the pair of DEs they have there.

I think the Steelers should look into Adam Carikker and Amobi Okoye. Smith is 30, Hampton 29, Keisel I think is 28 or 29 as well. Orien Harris was a great pick in the 4th though, however, more pieces are needed.

ny10804
08-23-2006, 08:29 PM
They have a poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata

By those standards, Jon Kitna is a poor man's Peyton Manning.

draftguru151
08-23-2006, 08:42 PM
They have a poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata

By those standards, Jon Kitna is a poor man's Peyton Manning.

:lol: Seriously.

08-23-2006, 08:43 PM
They have a poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata

By those standards, Jon Kitna is a poor man's Peyton Manning.

:lol: :lol: nice

draftguru151
08-23-2006, 08:45 PM
Falcons: The addition of John Abraham helps, no doubt, and it could make Rod Coleman and Patrick Kerney even more dangerous, now they just need a skilled Nose Tackle and this could be the best line in football.

Well?

Smooth Criminal
08-23-2006, 09:07 PM
In the 3-4, the Chargers and Pats have the best lines. In the 4-3, the Panthers and Falcons have the best lines. Several others(Bears, Jags) are as good or close to as good as those 2 though. The Vikings line is overhyped. The Ravens have the most versitile line and the Bears have the best young talent on their line IMO.

The Vikings have two DEs with alot of potential. Since this is a NFL draft board people tend to overrated the early draft picks early in their career. Their DEs have alot of potential but they arn't among the best in the league yet. Same goes for the Chargers with Castillo.

Well with the Chargers, Castillo hasn't developed, but he played on a very good level last year. He, unlike the Vikings young DEs, has proven to be a solid player. Olshanksy is almost as good as he will ever be. Williams is one of the top NTs. In NE, Warren and Wilfork are fairly young and have room to grow, as they have massive potentials. Seymour is already established. In Pittsburgh, Keisel is a 1st time starter with much less potential than the other dlineman being mentioned. Smith and Hampton are both solid Pro Bowlers. Pat Williams isn't nearly as good as he used to be. Kevin Williams has to step it up, he's still got loads of potential. Udeze and James aren't proven on any level. They're also both going into a new system. Not that they aren't a good line, I just think they are overrated and unproven at this point.

I agree with almost everything you said there. Plus you proved my point as to why the Steelers line is the best 3-4 right now. Not in a year or two but right now they are.
But I agree that the Vikings are overrated. I don't think they are in the top 5 4-3 D-lines. They have potential to be great with the pair of DEs they have there.

I think the Steelers should look into Adam Carikker and Amobi Okoye. Smith is 30, Hampton 29, Keisel I think is 28 or 29 as well. Orien Harris was a great pick in the 4th though, however, more pieces are needed.

Once again I agree completely. Carikker is a huge guy and a great 3-4 DE. Me and another Steeler fan on another board talked about him earlier as our first rounder. I actually just drafted him in Madden. I love the Orien pick to. I was so mad when we picked Reid over him in the 3rd because I wanted him to be the pick.

I think you have the ages right other than Keisel is only 27.

RCAChainGang
08-23-2006, 09:43 PM
Panthers no question.

Shiver
08-23-2006, 10:50 PM
Falcons: The addition of John Abraham helps, no doubt, and it could make Rod Coleman and Patrick Kerney even more dangerous, now they just need a skilled Nose Tackle and this could be the best line in football.

Well?


*clears throat*

thetedginnshow
08-24-2006, 02:11 AM
You know, skimming through all the garbage, I'm surprised the Seahawks were mentioned. We have arguably the greatest DT depth and one of the best tandems out there (nowhere near the level of Stroud/Henderson, though), but our DEs are really lacking. Wistrom is probably the second most active person on that defense, but he doesn't do anything. He's like the short kid in the gang that talks all this game but lets everyone else do stuff for him. And Fisher led the team in sacks, but he didn't create those. That was all his DTs, his LBs, and surprisingly, even some coverage sacks. Though we were the league leader in sacks, it was definitely not brought about by our D-line. The only point in time where it became the D-line was when we started changing things up in the playoffs and sending 3-man fronts, where Rocky Bernard dominated (which leads me to believe that he should go to some 3-4 team where he could be a real force, for some odd reason). So as far as a complete defense, yeah, the Seahawks are up there. And as a front seven, yeah, they're still up there. But simply as a D-line? Nah.

...Oh and the Vikings D-line is inferior to half the league at this point, if anyone was wondering.