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View Full Version : Gaines Adams not a good idea???


Bootland27
04-23-2007, 07:05 PM
http://blog.mlive.com/highlightreel/

One draft expert believes its not such a good idea.

Draft expert interviews: Nawrocki's sobering assessment of Lions
Posted by Bill Emkow April 23, 2007 05:30AM
Categories: NFL Draft

In our third Lions draft interview series, Bob Gaunt talks with one of our favorite reporters in our annual series, Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly. While he believes the Lions will take Gaines Adams with the No. 2 overall pick, he doesn't think it's a good idea. Not just because he admitted in interviews with teams that he's used marijuana.

"I do think he grades out as a Top 5 pick, I think he's a very good pass rusher - an elite pass rusher, and as long as he can keep his focus he'll be a great defensive end at the pro level. My concerns, primarily, are his toughness, his ability to play the run, and character as well. I think all three lows are concerns to me...

"Me personally, I'd feel uncomfortable drafting him in the Top 10. Having done a lot of homework on him for the past year, having studying the draft closely, but that's not to say there aren't a lot of decision-makers in this league that have a different risk tolerance level. I fully expect him to be a strong consideration for the Detroit Lions at No. 2, or No. 4, 5, or 6. Where ever they end up."

So he wouldn't take him, and he admits he's likely in the minority. Why is he so hesitant about Adams? It's a combination of his concerns with the person and the failings of the Lions' front office. He even believes Rod Marinelli, whom he thinks is a good coach, will eventually fail as head coach because of the dysfunctional front office led mainly by Matt Millen.

"It's the nature of the business. You've got to have the right decisions being made at the top, and until somebody comes in who can do that for the Detroit Lions, I don't see it getting any better."

As for the draft, he says even if the Lions have a stellar draft day (which he doesn't think they'll do given their track record), they're at least two years away from being any good. Nawrocki also doesn't believe there will be any teams willing to trade up to No. 2. He believes there are more teams trying to move down than up.

These are only short quotes of the lengthy explanations and analysis of Gaines Adams and the Lions' future. He also discusses the status of the NFC North and Josh McCown's future.

asmitty45
04-23-2007, 07:18 PM
Interesting, ive never heard of this guy though. He really seems to hate on the lions, where are his alligiances? Is he a packers fan or who does he normally cover?

I think he doesnt give gaines enough credit, there arent any major concerns with his attitude or else Marinelli wouldnt be looking at him at all, he doesnt stand for that kind of stuff.

Good article though

Xiomera
04-23-2007, 07:23 PM
I am against taking Gaines Adams . . . I have had an epiphany today.

Xiomera
04-23-2007, 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiomera http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=334862#post334862)
Is Gaines Adams worthy of a top five selection, all things considered. I am becoming increasingly worried about Detroit selecting him after learning that he smoked pot, has been labeled by many as lazy, and for his inability to hold up in the run game. In your scouting report, one statement stands out for me . . . "Intelligence???"

Bottom Line: Can a guy who is purely a pass rusher be worthy of such a high pick? And how big of a bust factor does he have?

-----------------------------
Scott's reply:

Great question!

No, I don't think he is worth a Top 5 pick and based on talent he should never go ahead of guys like Quinn, Peterson, and Thomas. Need is king in the NFL these days though so it looks like he will go either #2 or #4 overall. I am really starting to think that the Lions might get stuck at #2 and have to take him there unless they are willing to take a lot less than the chart value from Tampa.
__________________


Some brand new insight from Scott himself . . .

Bootland27
04-23-2007, 08:59 PM
How would the top 3 or 5 prospects be rated, on the defensive side of the ball??

Mythos
04-23-2007, 09:22 PM
I am against taking Gaines Adams . . . I have had an epiphany today.

I'm curious. What pushed you over the edge?!!

Xiomera
04-23-2007, 09:25 PM
I'm curious. What pushed you over the edge?!!

It's really a combination of things. I have never been completely sold in him as the correct pick. I went along with things a bit because he is the best pass rusher and fits into a cover 2, but that doesn't make him a good choice.

I am concerned about hearing that he is lazy and not the most intelliegent guy. And the fact that he smoked pot doesn't do anything to help his image in my mind.

There are a lot of reasons. I just don't see him as worthy of a top 5 pick since he is not good against the run, and he has always reminded me of Kalimba pt. 2.

Mythos
04-23-2007, 10:05 PM
It's really a combination of things. I have never been completely sold in him as the correct pick. I went along with things a bit because he is the best pass rusher and fits into a cover 2, but that doesn't make him a good choice.

I am concerned about hearing that he is lazy and not the most intelliegent guy. And the fact that he smoked pot doesn't do anything to help his image in my mind.

There are a lot of reasons. I just don't see him as worthy of a top 5 pick since he is not good against the run, and he has always reminded me of Kalimba pt. 2.


I don't know anything about the guy's off the field life, but there's gotta be plenty of stuff on tape that should be sending the red flags up. The first time I got to see the guy play was his junior year. There was talk that he might declare after his junior year, detroit needed a pass rusher .... so I spent a lot of time just watching him. I was double checking the roster when I got home b/c I couldn't believe that guy was the same guy I had read favorable things about. I would say on about 50% of the pass plays he would take a two step outside rush, get stoned and then just straighten up and separate and look to bat passes down. He never showed any of that relentless stuff that Freeney or Taylor show. Even less talented guys like Kampman and McCreary (and Hall a few yrs ago) show that relentless desire and it shows up in the stat column.

This situation just has Millen bust special written all over it. Whatever it is about the environment in detroit that just brings this out it people + Millen's propensity for drafting bums = ....

WMD
04-23-2007, 10:15 PM
I agree on Gaines Adams.. I just hope the coaching staff feels the same way.

boisefan
04-23-2007, 10:20 PM
I just hope the Skins don't take Adams at the 6th spot, I want to see LaRon Landry or Okoye get taken by the skins. I dont think the Skins need a lazy player, and I dont think other teams do either...

boisefan
04-23-2007, 10:23 PM
As for Lions trading to Tampa...they wouldn't get as much as they want for that pick, so that leaves the Lions in a very interesting position on draft day.

I'm looking forward to that number 2 pick.

jbombul
04-23-2007, 10:42 PM
thank you everyone, finally iv'e been saying adams is kalimba all over again for a while. and just to prove my point, i did some research on the both of them a while back and they are very comparable heres what i found:

just to prove my point, lets take a trip down memory lane. gaines adams vs kalimba edwards-

Kalimba- 6-5 3/8, 265, 4.7
Gaines- 6-4 3/4 258 4.64

Kalimba positives-

Very good all-around athlete. Smooth and fluid for his size. Looks like he was built to rush the passer with excellent height and arms down to his knees. As a full-time end, should be able to carry 275-280 pounds when he is finished growing and filling in. Both quick off the ball and fast and has a second gear he can turn on when closing in on or chasing the quarterback or ballcarrier. Uses his hands well and can counter as a pass rusher and change directions when chasing the ball without much wasted motion. Edwards also looks like he can turn his hips OK when he drops off into coverage, but he will generally move up and play defensive end on passing downs.

Gaines Adams positives-

An outstanding athlete... Extremely quick and agile with very good speed... has a tremendous first step and a great burst to close...has very long arms and uses his hands well...has the frame to get bigger and develop physically...looks fluid while dropping into coverage...a terror in opponents backfields and just has a knack for getting the quarterback...productive and disruptive...versitale and also has the ability to play outside linebacker in the 3-4

kalimba negatives-

Coming off a knee injury. Did not make many big plays or really stand out as a senior before he was hurt. Does not have a great frame for growing. Is a little narrow and has thin bones. Lacks functional playing strength when he plays down and has a hard time shedding blocks if he does not win with his first move and the offensive lineman gets his hands on him. Could be ’tweener, and is a player who a team must have a plan for if he is to realize his potential in the NFL.

gaines negatives-

does not have the ideal weight you would look for and needs to add some weight...does not play the run nearly as well as the pass...needs to get stronger...can play with better pad level and leverage...struggles when blockers can lock on...might be a DE/OLB tweener...becomes somewhat one dimensional at times...will get overly aggressive and run himself out of plays

hmm sounds like kalimba all over again. I don't know about you guys, but i can't live with another kalimba, let alone one of them. And calling for us to select him in the first is absurd.......I DON'T WANT ANOTHER MARIJUANA SMOKER ON THIS TEAM!

Xiomera
04-23-2007, 10:53 PM
I couldn't possibly have single handedly turned everyone against Adams could I? lol

WMD
04-23-2007, 10:54 PM
So you don't want Calvin Johnson either?? I don't care if he smokes weed or not. He's just too much like Kalimba Edwards to me..

I'd much much rather go DE in Round 2. A lot of you guys like Spencer, I'd rather go with Abiamiri.. DE in Round 2 is safer than the big risk in the Top 5.

WMD
04-23-2007, 10:57 PM
I couldn't possibly have single handedly turned everyone against Adams could I? lol

Not me.. I turned against him a little while ago.

jbombul
04-23-2007, 11:03 PM
i was actually against him for a while i've had many arguments with IAC about it..........and yea i would rather not take calvin johnson i would like to see the lions go defense first round either landry or willis

Xiomera
04-23-2007, 11:13 PM
So you don't want Calvin Johnson either?? I don't care if he smokes weed or not. He's just too much like Kalimba Edwards to me..

I'd much much rather go DE in Round 2. A lot of you guys like Spencer, I'd rather go with Abiamiri.. DE in Round 2 is safer than the big risk in the Top 5.

It's not the fact that he smoked pot that concerns me. That is one more strike on this guy that most other prospects don't have. It's a factor, but there are pleanty of others.

I would take CJ and hope to god Tampa is surprised enough to deal for him (assuming they don't wanna trade in the first place).

I like Spencer more than Abiamiri. Abirmiri could perhaps be had at 66. Scott has him going mid 3rd I think.

WMD
04-23-2007, 11:14 PM
I think if we're stuck at #2, that Calvin Johnson is the best pick. We'll make room for him. Or we can hold him hostage and give him to the highest bidder.

WMD
04-23-2007, 11:16 PM
It's not the fact that he smoked pot that concerns me. That is one more strike on this guy that most other prospects don't have. It's a factor, but there are pleanty of others.

I would take CJ and hope to god Tampa is surprised enough to deal for him (assuming they don't wanna trade in the first place).

I like Spencer more than Abiamiri. Abirmiri could perhaps be had at 66. Scott has him going mid 3rd I think.

My post was directed at jbombul.. he said he didn't want another marijuana smoker on our team..

LionSmack
04-23-2007, 11:40 PM
On the other Lions sites I go to, hatred of Adams started ramping up about 10 days ago, and now it's totally out of control.

Does the guy have risks? Yes. Is he overrated because there's really not a can't miss dominating D player in this draft? Yes. Are there a few guys I'd take before him at #2 and maybe at #4 too? Yes.

But people saying he's Kalimba part 2, I think that's crazy. Edwards had 15 career sacks. Adams had 12.5 last season, and 28 in his career. He's a whole other level as a DE prospect, with proven long term production at a high-level program.

If anything, he's probably the player we wish Kalimba could have been, but which you rarely get in the second round. He's not perfect by any means. He's a risk. But he can also really play.

P-L
04-24-2007, 12:01 AM
I too am actually souring on Adams. I wouldn't say that I don't want him, but he isn't ideal imo. Infact, there is no one in the top 10 that I want right now. Actually, I'd honestly just rather draft a QB and be done with it.

Jagonsucker
04-24-2007, 12:08 AM
Ive never wanted the guy.

woodnick
04-24-2007, 01:11 AM
Heck I'll take Adams, but not if CJ21, Thomas, or even Peterson are still on the board.

jbombul
04-24-2007, 02:36 AM
My post was directed at jbombul.. he said he didn't want another marijuana smoker on our team..

thats because i don't.... idk if you remember but when charles rogers dropped at his combine, he had a watered down sample, now im not saying that what happened with rogers could be the same with adams, but it is certainly a possibility, it jus adds on to the other risks with him

tlanderson
04-24-2007, 08:09 AM
1st off why this is all wrong is that these two players didn't even play the same position in college. Edwards at South Carolina was a OLB/DE and his best season was around 4 sacks. Adams has been a hand in the dirt DE and had more sacks in one season than Edwards did in his whole college career.

So no it isn't Edwards all over again.

Also your size and weight chart is kind of silly because -
DE Jason Taylor is 6-6 255 (Miami) 106 career sacks and has averaged 8.5 or more sacks since 2000
DE Mark Anderson 6-4 258 (Chicago) 12 sacks last year
DE Dwight Freeney 6-1 268 (Indy) 56.5 career sacks

Plus on a note smaller DE's are normally used in the cover 2.

Also almost all the DE's in this years draft don't play the run very well
with maybe the exception of Spencer from Purdue, he had 93 tackles
and around 25 TFL which is pretty impressive for a 6-3 260+ DE.

Personally I would rather the Lions trade down past Adams and take Patrick Willis who is the best MLBer in this draft. The problem is finding a trade partner and getting value with the trade.

Terry


thank you everyone, finally iv'e been saying adams is kalimba all over again for a while. and just to prove my point, i did some research on the both of them a while back and they are very comparable heres what i found:

just to prove my point, lets take a trip down memory lane. gaines adams vs kalimba edwards-

Kalimba- 6-5 3/8, 265, 4.7
Gaines- 6-4 3/4 258 4.64

Kalimba positives-

Very good all-around athlete. Smooth and fluid for his size. Looks like he was built to rush the passer with excellent height and arms down to his knees. As a full-time end, should be able to carry 275-280 pounds when he is finished growing and filling in. Both quick off the ball and fast and has a second gear he can turn on when closing in on or chasing the quarterback or ballcarrier. Uses his hands well and can counter as a pass rusher and change directions when chasing the ball without much wasted motion. Edwards also looks like he can turn his hips OK when he drops off into coverage, but he will generally move up and play defensive end on passing downs.

Gaines Adams positives-

An outstanding athlete... Extremely quick and agile with very good speed... has a tremendous first step and a great burst to close...has very long arms and uses his hands well...has the frame to get bigger and develop physically...looks fluid while dropping into coverage...a terror in opponents backfields and just has a knack for getting the quarterback...productive and disruptive...versitale and also has the ability to play outside linebacker in the 3-4

kalimba negatives-

Coming off a knee injury. Did not make many big plays or really stand out as a senior before he was hurt. Does not have a great frame for growing. Is a little narrow and has thin bones. Lacks functional playing strength when he plays down and has a hard time shedding blocks if he does not win with his first move and the offensive lineman gets his hands on him. Could be ’tweener, and is a player who a team must have a plan for if he is to realize his potential in the NFL.

gaines negatives-

does not have the ideal weight you would look for and needs to add some weight...does not play the run nearly as well as the pass...needs to get stronger...can play with better pad level and leverage...struggles when blockers can lock on...might be a DE/OLB tweener...becomes somewhat one dimensional at times...will get overly aggressive and run himself out of plays

hmm sounds like kalimba all over again. I don't know about you guys, but i can't live with another kalimba, let alone one of them. And calling for us to select him in the first is absurd.......I DON'T WANT ANOTHER MARIJUANA SMOKER ON THIS TEAM!

LikeWaterForChocolate
04-24-2007, 10:18 AM
I'm not really a Lions fan but I was wondering why I haven't heard anything of them and Joe Thomas? I wouldnt know this for sure but was Dline a far bigger concern than Oline? At the times I did see the lions the line seemed shaky, or is that Marinelli is happy with Backus and Scott as the bookends?

woodnick
04-24-2007, 12:53 PM
thats because i don't.... idk if you remember but when charles rogers dropped at his combine, he had a watered down sample, now im not saying that what happened with rogers could be the same with adams, but it is certainly a possibility, it jus adds on to the other risks with him

The three guys admitted to using marijuana in the past in a confidential interview, C-rog tested negatively at the combine with a diluted sample. If any of these three tested negative then they might drop similar to Warren Sapp did with his diluted sample, but they DIDN'T have a negative test so this won't affect them.

woodnick
04-24-2007, 12:55 PM
I'm not really a Lions fan but I was wondering why I haven't heard anything of them and Joe Thomas? I wouldnt know this for sure but was Dline a far bigger concern than Oline? At the times I did see the lions the line seemed shaky, or is that Marinelli is happy with Backus and Scott as the bookends?

No, the Lions aren't happy with Scott and Backus at the Tackle spots which is why we aquired George Foster and are looking closely at Joe Thomas. Scott looks like he has potential, but we'll see how he develops.

dreadedluck
04-24-2007, 09:43 PM
All I got to say is JUSTICE at last!!!

jbombul
04-24-2007, 10:55 PM
1st off why this is all wrong is that these two players didn't even play the same position in college. Edwards at South Carolina was a OLB/DE and his best season was around 4 sacks. Adams has been a hand in the dirt DE and had more sacks in one season than Edwards did in his whole college career.

So no it isn't Edwards all over again.

Also your size and weight chart is kind of silly because -
DE Jason Taylor is 6-6 255 (Miami) 106 career sacks and has averaged 8.5 or more sacks since 2000
DE Mark Anderson 6-4 258 (Chicago) 12 sacks last year
DE Dwight Freeney 6-1 268 (Indy) 56.5 career sacks

Plus on a note smaller DE's are normally used in the cover 2.

Also almost all the DE's in this years draft don't play the run very well
with maybe the exception of Spencer from Purdue, he had 93 tackles
and around 25 TFL which is pretty impressive for a 6-3 260+ DE.

Personally I would rather the Lions trade down past Adams and take Patrick Willis who is the best MLBer in this draft. The problem is finding a trade partner and getting value with the trade.

Terry

the heights and weights i listed were directly from scouting websites including this one, i didn't make them up off the top of my head. the thing you left off is speed, strength, other measureables. gaines adams is lazy and he takes plays off, doesn't play the run well etc....

Tampatwo434
04-25-2007, 03:26 PM
New here, Hi everyone

While I don't agree with drafting Adams at the two slot for the simple reason that with the depth at end in this class we can get good value at the postion in the early second round. It just makes the most sense to sit on the phone lines until the last possible second and see if some one offers a Rivers-Manning type trade to secure the rights to Calvin Johnson. If that doesn't work out I believe that we should take Calvin and hold him hostage. Even if this blows up in our face the worst that happens is we are left with a once in a generation type prospect inside the Martz offence.