MMA Discussion Thread - SPOILERS!

[killxswitch]

That may be a long time, if ever. I knew MMA fighters made much less than boxers but I had no idea that MMA fighters made so little. Knowing that I kinda feel like Dana White is exploiting these fighters.

He'd better start giving a bonus for having to fight Lesnar otherwise no one will want to do it. I'm not sure $45K would be worth all the training that goes into it.

[Ravens1991]

OK, I got to get this off my chest, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of some MMA fans. I understand that people dislike Bisping because they think he is disrespectful and doesn't have class. But how does punching a KO'd opponent and then saying you did it to shut him up constitute class? It's a shame because I usually like Hendo as well, but that wasn't a good thing to do.

That is a good point, doing things like that wont help MMA be licsensed in all states

[ChezPower4]

He'd better start giving a bonus for having to fight Lesnar otherwise no one will want to do it. I'm not sure $45K would be worth all the training that goes into it.

I don't think that risking my life against the best fighters in the world is worth 45K. We still have to take into account that these guys are fighters and they love what they do and money may just be an added bonus. It would seem hard for some of these guys to make a decent living on the amount that they're getting paid.

[ironman4579]

Is the $45k just what they're getting paid by the UFC though? Because I'd think most of these guys are getting money from at least some form of sponsor as well. Obviously it might not be that much for the average fighter. But if it's even say, $10k, is $55k really not enough to live on?

[ChezPower4]

Is the $45k just what they're getting paid by the UFC though? Because I'd think most of these guys are getting money from at least some form of sponsor as well. Obviously it might not be that much for the average fighter. But if it's even say, $10k, is $55k really not enough to live on?

You can definitely live off of 55k if your really smart with your money. I'm just saying that these fighters are some of the best in world at what they do. Look at what other top athletes make, top CEOs or most anyone that is at the top of their restive craft for that matter.

[fenikz]

that's just for the fight, sponsors are where people get the money

[ironman4579]

You can definitely live off of 55k if your really smart with your money. I'm just saying that these fighters are some of the best in world at what they do. Look at what other top athletes make, top CEOs or most anyone that is at the top of their restive craft for that matter.

No, I agree that they should be paid more. I'm just pointing out it wouldn't really be "hard" to make a living, other than the difficulty of fighting for money, which would kind of be hard regardless of what you're making IMO.

[Wootylicous]

I know for sure that GSP made something like 400k for this fight

[ChezPower4]

I know for sure that GSP made something like 400k for this fight

GSP is UFC superstar.....

[Saints 4 Lyfe]

don't know how it works but i know you get bonuses for KO of the night, fight of the night, etc and when Kyle Bradley beat Nover Dana called him to the back and gave him an undisclosed bonus and i dont think he had any of the nights awards.

I could be wrong though.

OK, I got to get this off my chest, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of some MMA fans. I understand that people dislike Bisping because they think he is disrespectful and doesn't have class. But how does punching a KO'd opponent and then saying you did it to shut him up constitute class? It's a shame because I usually like Hendo as well, but that wasn't a good thing to do.

because this is america that's why.




damn that's a good excuse for damn near anything.





i'm being sarcastic obviously for those who cant tell...

[comahan]

I didn't like nor dislike Lesnar coming into his last fight. His antics after beating Mir were ridiculous and over the top. I happen to now think that he's a flaming douche bag and hope that some kicks his ass and shuts him the **** up.

Thats the beuty of playing up a character. Now more people will pay to see his fights in the hope of seeing him get his ass kicked. Its a time tested theory on a ton of different platforms.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Is the $45k just what they're getting paid by the UFC though? Because I'd think most of these guys are getting money from at least some form of sponsor as well. Obviously it might not be that much for the average fighter. But if it's even say, $10k, is $55k really not enough to live on?

Plus, Dana is famous for giving Locker Room Bonuses.

[nrk]

OK, I got to get this off my chest, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of some MMA fans. I understand that people dislike Bisping because they think he is disrespectful and doesn't have class. But how does punching a KO'd opponent and then saying you did it to shut him up constitute class? It's a shame because I usually like Hendo as well, but that wasn't a good thing to do.

While I love Henderson, that was really classless of him. No one should be bashing Lesnar and praising Hendo. If anyone should be apologizing it should be Hendo. I bet he was just caught up in the moment with his adrenaline pumping, similar to Lesnar, but that is just wrong what he did. Also, Frank Mir is a cocky ass mofo who shouldn't have talked trash (I really got annoyed of Michael Bisping's trash talking also). What really upset me about Lesnar is how he didn't touch gloves at the beginning. At least he admitted to being a sore loser. He made me crack up when he won with the whole horseshoe up Frank Mir's ass though.

While I say what Hendo did was classless, its hilarious and awesome to watch. I can't stand Bisping after the ultimate fighter.

[FuzzyGopher]

On the subject of payouts...
UFC 100 Payouts

Brock Lesnar -- $400,000 (no win bonus)
def. Frank Mir –- $45,000

Georges St. Pierre –- $400,000 (including $200,000 win bonus)
def. Thiago Alves –- $60,000

Dan Henderson –- $350,000 (including $150,000 win bonus, $100,000 knockout bonus)
def. Michael Bisping –- $150,000

Jon Fitch -- $90,000 (including $45,000 win bonus)
def. Paulo Thiago –- $8,000

Yoshihiro Akiyama –- $160,000(including $20,000 win bonus, $100,000 fight of night bonus)
def. Alan Belcher –- $119,000 (including $100,000 fight of night bonus)

Mark Coleman –- $100,000 (including $50,000 win bonus)
def. Stephan Bonnar –- $25,000

Jim Miller -- $22,000 (including $11,000 win bonus)
def. Mac Danzig -- $20,000

Jon Jones –- $18,000(including $9,000 win bonus)
def. Jake O'Brien –- $13,000

Dong Hyun Kim –- $58,000 (including $29,000 win bonus)
def. T.J. Grant -- $5,000

Tom Lawlor –- $116,000 (including $8,000 win bonus and $100,000 submission bonus)
def. CB Dollaway –- $14,000

Shannon Gugerty –- $10,000(including $5,000 win bonus)
def. Matt Grice -- $7,000


http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/lesnar-st-pierre-lead-ufc-100-payouts-18495

[E-Man]

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:eek:


lol

[aNYtitan]

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:eek:


lol

Can someone give me my time back? Can't believe Joe Rogan actually spent time on this

[ChezPower4]

On the subject of payouts...
UFC 100 Payouts



Jon Jones –- $18,000(including $9,000 win bonus)
def. Jake O'Brien –- $13,000





Jon Jones will soon be making much more than that choke change.

[E-Man]

The thing to remember with MMA pay is that fighters are housed under an organizational umbrella. MMA fighters won't make as much as boxers, because there is no boxing org that has to pay over 100 fighters. The UFC, Strikeforce, Sengoku, DREAM, etc. have too many fighters under contract to pay two fighters 20 million a piece. I've heard about fighters getting pay per view bonuses though, so their still getting paid pretty well. There's an article that I'm too lazy to look up that was talking about Brock making $3 million for UFC 100, and GSP making like $2.5 million based on projected buyrates. Supposedly Couture and Chuck make over a million a fight too, and I'm sure there are bonuses in their contract that pay them incentives for things like having a winning record for the year.

[El Peefs?????]

OK, I got to get this off my chest, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of some MMA fans. I understand that people dislike Bisping because they think he is disrespectful and doesn't have class. But how does punching a KO'd opponent and then saying you did it to shut him up constitute class? It's a shame because I usually like Hendo as well, but that wasn't a good thing to do.

Honestly, I have no problems with this. You don't stop fighting until the ref pulls you away. I've seen Hendo do this in Pride. I've seen tons and tons of fights where a fighter is out and his opponent is hitting him until the ref stops it.

You've probably seen a few of the fights where a fighter landed a huge shot and assumed the fight was over after the other guy dropped, but the ref allowed him time to try and recover. Then you see an awkward exchange where the winning fighter stops his celebration and runs back over to try and 'finish' the fight.

I've got no problem with a fighter fighting until the fight is officially over.

[soybean]

Honestly, I have no problems with this. You don't stop fighting until the ref pulls you away. I've seen Hendo do this in Pride. I've seen tons and tons of fights where a fighter is out and his opponent is hitting him until the ref stops it.

You've probably seen a few of the fights where a fighter landed a huge shot and assumed the fight was over after the other guy dropped, but the ref allowed him time to try and recover. Then you see an awkward exchange where the winning fighter stops his celebration and runs back over to try and 'finish' the fight.

I've got no problem with a fighter fighting until the fight is officially over.

hmm i forgot which fight it was, but it was pretty recent where a fighter clearly knocked out the opponent but the ref didn't stop it so the fighter kept hitting him then looked at the ref to stop it, in which (i think it was herb dean) finally did stop it.

[Ravens1991]

was it pete sell VS. Matt brown? I remember Brown knocked out sell but the ref didnt call it, thus leading to the wierdest couple of seconds in MMA.

[E-Man]

Looking at the heavyweight division, the winner of Carwin/Velasquez should be the clear cut number one contender unless I'm missing someone. Randy and Nog are fighting next month, and it would be hard to sell any of them against Brock. Brock just beat Randy two fights ago, and a Nog fight with Brock would be pretty hard to sell since Mir stopped him. Kongo lost to Velasquez, so you can't put him ahead of the winner of Shane vs. Cain. Herring is still nursing an injury I think. The winner of Fedor vs. Barnett is in another org, and I don't see either getting signed before the year is over. So who else would it be for a title shot? There's the Cro Cop vs. Dos Santos winner, but the Carwin vs. Velasquez winner would seem to be ahead in the rankings.

I'd also like to make an early prediction about Shane vs. Cain. For now I'm going with Cain to out wrestle Carwin to a late stoppage. I know people are seeing a knockout for Carwin since Kongo buckled Cain a few times, but I'm leaning towards Cain's wrestling to win the day. Of course this is pretty early, so I might change my pick.

[Rob S]

Honestly, I have no problems with this. You don't stop fighting until the ref pulls you away. I've seen Hendo do this in Pride. I've seen tons and tons of fights where a fighter is out and his opponent is hitting him until the ref stops it.

You've probably seen a few of the fights where a fighter landed a huge shot and assumed the fight was over after the other guy dropped, but the ref allowed him time to try and recover. Then you see an awkward exchange where the winning fighter stops his celebration and runs back over to try and 'finish' the fight.

I've got no problem with a fighter fighting until the fight is officially over.

I know what you are saying and would totally agree with you except for the fact that Hendo, after the fight, said he absolutely knew he was out cold when he landed the punch. Sometimes you just know, he did, so you dont risk seriously hurting a guy. If he had even a small doubt tho, I have no problem with the punch.

[UKfan]

If you are swinging when a guy is down but you don't know if he is out, go for it, but with a swing like that, he knew Bisping was ******, and he still hit him, that's akin to holding a choke when a guy taps in my book, very low.

[MaxV]

UKFan, I agree with you, somewhat. But it might be difficult to tell sometimes.

The last Herring-Nog fight comes to mind. Herring head-kicks Nog and just stands there, thinking that it's over. He ended up losing the fight.

[Rob S]

Yeah its tough.........honestly when you are in the midst of a fight its really tough to just stop until the ref steps in.

[fenikz]

UKFan, I agree with you, somewhat. But it might be difficult to tell sometimes.

The last Herring-Nog fight comes to mind. Herring head-kicks Nog and just stands there, thinking that it's over. He ended up losing the fight.

Nog is well known for playing possum to sucker people into his ground game

[ironman4579]

If you are swinging when a guy is down but you don't know if he is out, go for it, but with a swing like that, he knew Bisping was ******, and he still hit him, that's akin to holding a choke when a guy taps in my book, very low.

Personally, I'd hold a choke or a submission until the ref steps in as well. I've seen a guy in the early days get a guy to tap, let go, and the ref didn't see it. The guy that tapped, once he was released and realized the ref hadn't stopped the fight, turned over and kept fighting and ended up winning the fight. If I had to break an arm or choke someone completely out before the ref stopped the fight, regardless if a guy's tapping or not, I'd do it.

[UKfan]

Personally, I'd hold a choke or a submission until the ref steps in as well. I've seen a guy in the early days get a guy to tap, let go, and the ref didn't see it. The guy that tapped, once he was released and realized the ref hadn't stopped the fight, turned over and kept fighting and ended up winning the fight. If I had to break an arm or choke someone completely out before the ref stopped the fight, regardless if a guy's tapping or not, I'd do it.

Sorry you are right, I was thinking more BJ Penn holding on to Jens after the bell was rung, or Sobral as well. Once the ref stops it, holding on is low.

[ironman4579]

Sorry you are right, I was thinking more BJ Penn holding on to Jens after the bell was rung, or Sobral as well. Once the ref stops it, holding on is low.

I agree. As much as I used to love Royce Gracie, he was notorious for holding on once the ref had jumped in.

[ironman4579]

Just rewatched the Akiyama/Belcher fight. I still don't see how anyone could think Belcher won that fight. Akiyama clearly won the first 2 rounds. Belcher clearly won the 3rd round. I agree that the judge that scored it 30-27 is out to lunch, but Akiyama still clearly took that fight IMO.

[MetSox17]

I agree. As much as I used to love Royce Gracie, he was notorious for holding on once the ref had jumped in.

You stated earlier yourself why he would do that. Did you ever see the fights of UFC 1? No one knew people could do things that would make their opponent tap, much less the referee. His first few fights he made his opponent tap little a little girl, and the referee was no where to be found. After that, Gracie made sure that he was the victor by holding on until he was absolutely certain that the fight was over.

[ironman4579]

You stated earlier yourself why he would do that. Did you ever see the fights of UFC 1? No one knew people could do things that would make their opponent tap, much less the referee. His first few fights he made his opponent tap little a little girl, and the referee was no where to be found. After that, Gracie made sure that he was the victor by holding on until he was absolutely certain that the fight was over.

I agree. And yes, I pretty much watched every UFC from 1-10. You have to admit though, there were a couple times that Gracie was really holding on while the ref was attempting to wrench him off the guy. Anyway, I really have no problem with it. That was the early days, as you said.

[themaninblack]

I just watched that Fedor: Baddest Man on the Planet thing on youtube and it was very interesting to actually see him talk and learn a little bit about his training.

[Rob S]

Gracie did hold on to be an ass at times, no doubt about it.

[E-Man]

I just realized that August has a big MMA event every weekend. Think about what we're gettin. UFC 101 and 102. Strikeforce has three belts on the line. WEC 41, I think it's 41, but WEC is always good regardless. We get to see a relaly good matchup in Fedor vs. Barnett, and some other nice fights from Affliction, and Sengoku and DREAM has cards as well.......at least I know Sengoku does.

[Rob S]

MMA Draft posted in Fantasy.

[ironman4579]

So to get a little discussion going, I figured I'd post Fight! magazine's rankings. I thought I'd post one weight class every couple days. Keep in mind, this was released previous to UFC 100. I'll start with the heavyweights:

1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Andrei Arlovski
3.Josh Barnett
4.Frank Mir
5.Brock Lesnar
6.Jeff Monson
7.Alistair Overeem
8.Tim Sylvia
9.Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
10.Shane Carwin

So at first blush, obviously Lesnar should be over Mir at this point. I don't think I'd have Arlovski #2 either. Probably have Josh Barnett there instead. I think I'm more of a fan of Carwin than Sylvia right now as well.

[UKfan]

On very quick viewing, those rankings suck.

[ironman4579]

On very quick viewing, those rankings suck.

Yea, I'd agree. I think they rank based on some point system. Unfortunately, I have no idea how said point system works.

[MaxV]

Were this rankings before the AA-Rogers fight?

[ironman4579]

Were this rankings before the AA-Rogers fight?

It just says June 2009 rankings, so I'm assuming it was either beginning of June or end of June.

[josh07039]

So to get a little discussion going, I figured I'd post Fight! magazine's rankings. I thought I'd post one weight class every couple days. Keep in mind, this was released previous to UFC 100. I'll start with the heavyweights:

1.Fedor Emelianenko
2.Andrei Arlovski
3.Josh Barnett
4.Frank Mir
5.Brock Lesnar
6.Jeff Monson
7.Alistair Overeem
8.Tim Sylvia
9.Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
10.Shane Carwin

So at first blush, obviously Lesnar should be over Mir at this point. I don't think I'd have Arlovski #2 either. Probably have Josh Barnett there instead. I think I'm more of a fan of Carwin than Sylvia right now as well.
Just very quickly, without much thought, my HW rankings would be
1.Fedor-Pretty easy choice
2.Barnett-Kinda by default
3.Brock-Can't really put anyone else ahead of him. I don't like him, but he has done a lot with his limited fighting experience.
4.Mir-With improved striking and good cardio, he can be very dangerous. He needs to put on some weight in a healthy way and improve his wrestling.
5.Couture-Getting so old, but losing to Lesnar doesn't bump him down as much as Nog losing to Mir because of Lesnar's destruction of Mir.
6.Nog
7.Carwin-He hasn't lost and he just performed great in a fight that was a big step up in competition. Read.
8.Arlovski-In my opinion his loss to Fedor didn't hurt him at all. The loss to Rogers was a fluke in terms of skill, but it shows that he will not be elite because of his chin/stupidity.
9.Overeem-Some good wins, nothing spectacular. That's enough in the heavyweight division.
10.Monson-The guy has fought some legit competition and his only recent loss came against #2 Barnett.

In reality Couture and Nog are pretty much tied for 5th but I don't do ties.

Honorable mention-
Cain-Not yet. I was very unimpressed against kongo.
Rogers-If he beats Werdum or Overeem then he is legit.
Junior-If he hadn't taken a step down in competition after Werdum he would have the 10 spot. This is not his fault, just reality.
Werdum-Inactive since his loss. A convincing win against Overeem flip flops them.

[UKfan]

No Gonzaga Josh? He'd be sniffing my top 10 no doubt.

[E-Man]

My heavyweight rankings are similar to Josh's. Fedor is obvious, Barnett is basically #2 by default, and Brock's kinda the same with #3. The only thing I'd change is putting Rogers in there over Arlovski, but I'm not too keen on his skills yet either. It's just that rankings for me is from that school of thought of recent wins, and in my book if you beat a guy you're ahead of him. Sylvia shouldn't even sniff the top 10 anymore. I know fluke's happen, but Ray Mercer probably wouldn't have even been ranked if there was a top 50. Not tying to diss Mercer, but he's 48 with only one MMA fight against Kimbo. I respect his boxing skills a ton, but MMA is a different game, and he'd get owned by most guys.

A more interesting ranking system to the 205 rankings. You've got alot of recent champions there that make things interesting. Mine go like this:

1. Lyoto Machida- This is obvious.
2. Rampage- A recent champ with a good winning streak going. Should be the number 1 guy, but lord knows what happened behind the scenes there.
3. Rashad Evans- Most recent champ who just lost his belt.
4. Forrest Griffin- Recent champ who just lost his belt again Rashad. Interesting thing is if both he and Rashad win their next fights. Both would win over high quality opponents, so it would be interesting to see what win holds more credibility. A win over the number 2 guy in the division, or a win over an unranked guy division wise, but the number 1 P4P guy on many people's lists?
5. Keith Jardine- Now we get interesting here. Some people have Shogun here, but Keith has a better record in the UFC. Plus he has some recent top 10 wins.
6. Luiz Cane- He's got a good winning streak going, and he looks like a good prospect. I have him ranked over Shogun based on recent performance.
7. Shogun- Some people have him higher, but his UFC career needs another big win for me. The Coleman fight a atrocious, and he's only looked good in the Chuck fight. If he beats Lyoto, then he'll undoubtedly be #1. If he loses, depending on how he loses determines his ranking.
8. Renato "Babalu" Sobral- He's on a decent winning streak now, and his talent has always been top 10. Some will have Little Nog here, but neither have beat better competition than the other. The difference is that Babalu just beat a guy who put Little Nog to sleep.
9. Little Nog- Same with Babalu.
10. Rich Franklin- This spot is tough, because you have a number of contenders to consider. Rich hasn't done much at 205 recently outside of beating Hamill and losing to Dan Henderson. The Wanderlei fight was at 195, so it doesn't have much bearing. This spot is more about skills. Brandon Vera has the talent, but he's been too inconsistent in addition to needing to prove himself at 205. A win over Hamill would help since Hamill has been more steady at 205. Jon Jones is too raw right now, and has only been impressive from a prospect standpoint. Vlad is old, and hasn't done much recently. Mousasi hasn't even fought at 205 yet, and Sokoudjou isn't even top 15. I went with Franklin's skill set, history, and recent win over Hamill.

[fenikz]

just some quick top 10s

HW
Fedor
Barnett
Lesnar
Couture
Mir
Nog
Carwin
Gonzaga
AA
Rogers

LHW
Machida
Rampage
Evans
Shogun
Cane
Forrest
Lil Nog
Franklin
Wandy
Sobral
Jones

MW
Silva
Okami
Maia
Henderson
Mousasi
Marquardt
Leites
Santiago
Lawler
Belfort

[E-Man]

A really interesting division to rank is the 155 division. There's some heavy dispute over who to put where there, and it's a little different from the heavyweight division. With the heavy's it's more of people being top 10 because there are no other people to think of. With the lightweights it's a matter of a ton of people being talented enough to be top 10. Some favor the UFC, some favor Japan. The Japanese lightweights seem to have the experience edge slightly, but the UFC seems to have wrestlers that are hard to submit.

[fenikz]

I would lean towards US lightweights, generally they come from a wrestling background and due to weight cuts end up being much larger than Japanese lightweights, while these 2 fighters aren't lightweights it was a great example of this

vxgPW8djs0c
KzBhYY4VKZU

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Let's do this

HW:
Fedor
Barnett
Lesnar
Couture
Mir
Nogeira
Overeem
Carwin
AA
Werdum

LHW:
Machida
Rampage
Evans
Griffin
Franklin
Cane
Shogun
Mousasi
RTS
Babalu

MW:
Silva
Hendo
Okami
Maia
Marquardt
Belfort
Lawler
Mcdonald
Leites
Sexiyama

WW:
GSP
Fitch
Shields
Alves
Koscheck
Swick
Hazelett
Kampmann
Hughes
A. Johnson


LW:
Penn
Florian
Sanchez
Sherk
Maynard
Aoki
Edgar
Griffin
Alvarez
Joachim Hansen

Feel free to call me an idiot.

[The_Dude]

OK, I got to get this off my chest, but I can't believe the hypocrisy of some MMA fans. I understand that people dislike Bisping because they think he is disrespectful and doesn't have class. But how does punching a KO'd opponent and then saying you did it to shut him up constitute class? It's a shame because I usually like Hendo as well, but that wasn't a good thing to do.

I couldn't agree more... i hate that ****. Someone is going to get seriously injured from a post-ko-punch/kick that is totally unneccessary.

[josh07039]

No Gonzaga Josh? He'd be sniffing my top 10 no doubt.
Gonzaga needs 2 good performances in a row for me. He is more talented than a lot of the guys on the list, but he is so damn inconsistent. In his last 5 fights he has 3 losses to good competition and 2 wins against unimpressive competition. He is big, athletic, and well rounded, but he doesn't fight up to his capabilities often enough
as for other divisions
LHW:
1.Machida
2.Jackson
3. Rashad-only because Forrest hasn't been able to fight again. I might move Forrest ahead of him even with an impressive loss to Silva.
4.Forrest
5.Shogun
6.Cane
7.Little Nog
8.Jardine
9.Babalu
10.Franklin-One good win at 205 would vault him over a few people.

In my opinion, if Wand stays commited to moving down, he no longer belongs in the 205 rankings. If he changes his mind, he would still be out of the top 10 because either Mousassi or Bablu would be coming off a big win at 205.

MW
1.Silva
2.Okami
3.Hendo
4.Marquardt-Would vault hendo with a win
5.Maia-Same deal as Nate
6.Leites-He is still really talented. If Silva had finished him in the first round, people wouldn't be as down on him.
7.Santiago
8.Belfort
9.Lawler-Still really talented, but made a really stupid decision.
10.Akiyama

WW
1.GSP
2.Fitch
3.Alves
4.Shields
5.Kampmann
6.Thiago
7.Swick
8.Koscheck
9.Condit
10. Marcus Davis-In the world of Josh, he didn't lose. Really, he was robbed.

Too tired for more weight classes.

[ironman4579]

Well, I guess I'll throw out my rankings as well then.

HW
Fedor
Barnett
Lesnar
Rogers
Couture
Nogueira
Carwin
Overeem
Velasquez
Gonzaga

AA's chin just scares me alot even though Gonzaga has been inconsistent.


LHW
Machida
Rampage
Evans
Forrest
Cane
Franklin
Shogun
Jardine
Nogueira
Jon Jones

Yea, I put Jon Jones on there. I'm probably buying the hype, but I like him.


MW
Silva
Okami
Henderson
Maia
Marquardt
Akiyama
Santiago
Leites
Lawlor
Belfort

Akiyama wasn't impressive in his debut, but I still think he got the win, and I've been impressed enough in the past to give him a shot.


WW
GSP
Alves
Fitch
Kampmann
Shields
Koscheck
Condit
Thiago
Swick
Hughes

Yea, I still have Alves #2. Despite thinking he had no shot against GSP, at least he lasted 5 rounds, and Fitch was not impressive against Thiago IMO.


LW
Penn
Alvarez
Aoki
Florian
Sanchez
Kitaoka
Hansen
Maynard
Edgar
Varner

The LW division is always a struggle for me to rank. I'm probably out to lunch on this one.

[josh07039]

The big reason I didn't include Jones is because no matter how tantalizing his talent is, I firmly believe if he were put in there with a top ten fighter, he would have major problems. He often telegraphs his leg kicks and realistically he can't count on spinning backfists and elbows to consistently damage his opponents. Obviously his wrestling/throws are pretty impressive, and his reach will pose problems for any fighter, but I don't see him as a top ten guy just yet.

If he keeps progressing, the sky is the limit, but I hope the UFC doesn't put him against big time competition just yet.

[jared]

@ironman

I have a couple glaring problems with your otherwise acceptable rankings. You have Rogers as your #4 HW?? Personally, I'd have him below every other HW on your list and behind Monson, Rothwell, and Frank Mir (where's he on your list?!).

LHW:
Jon Jones is promising and all, but his resume' does not place him above guys like Thiago Silva (!), Gegard Mousasi, or even Brandon Vera and Mike Whitehead.

edit: also cosign with josh's above comments on Jones.

WW:
It's a more minor quibble, but Fitch completely controlled Alves in their fight. I really don't think a rematch would look any different. Both went 5 rounds with GSP and were beat up all throughout. I give the edge to Fitch for a W over Alves and a more impressive record (23-3 vs. 16-4).

[Ravens1991]

I agree I hope he gets a couple more not elite opponents. 1) He is still extremly young so he needs time to develop 2) It is fun as hell to watch him kill people

[Saints 4 Lyfe]

so i hear Tito might be coming back to get his ass kicked yet again.

[jared]

so i hear Tito might be coming back to get his ass kicked yet again.

I think there's quite a few wins Tito could still pick up in the LHW division. He'll never advance past gatekeeper status, but he's not trash by any means. He would have won the Rashad fight without the point deduction.

[Ravens1991]

I heard he is fighting Rich Franklin. That would be a interesting fight

[fenikz]

I listed Mousasi at MW just because of what he accomplished there, does he intend to stay in the LHW/HW stuff? I assumed it was just for the tourney

[PACKmanN]

no love for Nick Diaz?

[ironman4579]

@ironman

I have a couple glaring problems with your otherwise acceptable rankings. You have Rogers as your #4 HW?? Personally, I'd have him below every other HW on your list and behind Monson, Rothwell, and Frank Mir (where's he on your list?!).

Meh, I like Rogers. He only has one impressive win, over AA, but personally I just have an overall disdain for the HW division at this point and most of the fighters in it. I am not a fan of Monson at all. At least Rogers has a win over a decent opponent. Everytime Monson steps in against one of the better HW's, he loses. To be quite honest, I feel the same way about Rothwell. To me he hasn't beaten anyone of note. As for Mir, I just completely forgot about him somehow. I'd drop Gonzaga off and put Mir at #4 just behind Lesnar I think.

LHW:
Jon Jones is promising and all, but his resume' does not place him above guys like Thiago Silva (!), Gegard Mousasi, or even Brandon Vera and Mike Whitehead.

edit: also cosign with josh's above comments on Jones.

Like I said, I'm probably buying the hype at this point on Jones. I wouldn't fight you too much. I have Silva at #11. He's another guy that really hasn't beaten anyone of note other than James Irvin IMO. I'd like Mousasi to actually beat someone at LHW before I put him in a top 10 list. And I'm no fan of Vera or Whitehead. The only guy there I'd feel comfortable calling a top 10 LHW is Silva at this point.

WW:
It's a more minor quibble, but Fitch completely controlled Alves in their fight. I really don't think a rematch would look any different. Both went 5 rounds with GSP and were beat up all throughout. I give the edge to Fitch for a W over Alves and a more impressive record (23-3 vs. 16-4).

They fought 3 years ago. I absolutely think that a rematch would look different. I've never been a big fan of Fitch. He just doesn't dominate the way I'd like to call him the #2 guy in the division.


Left some notes for you there.

[josh07039]

I listed Mousasi at MW just because of what he accomplished there, does he intend to stay in the LHW/HW stuff? I assumed it was just for the tourneyHe didn't take a fight with Belfort because he said he doesn't intend on staying at middleweight. Im pretty sure he has said that the cut is just too hard as he continues to grow. Also, in a video leading up to Affliction Trilogy, he told Fedor he would probably come up to heavyweight in 3 years.

Packman-I don't consider diaz as a top ten contender because of the competition he has beaten. Scott Smith and Frank Shamrock aren't even close to the top ten. Diaz has talent, but i really think his stand up is overrated and, like his brother, can be dominated by a good wrestler.

[Rob S]

I hate rankings in the traditional sense. They are necessary no doubt, but it pains me that some guys have to be so high up even tho I think lower guys would crush them.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Why exactly is Gonzaga a top 10 HW again?

[Ravens1991]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/hendo-franklin-2-announced-for-ufc-103-18633


Hendo VS. Franklin re-match.

does anybody wonder why this is happening?

[Tampa 2 4 life]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/hendo-franklin-2-announced-for-ufc-103-18633


Hendo VS. Franklin re-match.

does anybody wonder why this is happening?

Everybody. Can I start talking about the DREAM 10 results yet?

[E-Man]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/hendo-franklin-2-announced-for-ufc-103-18633


Hendo VS. Franklin re-match.

does anybody wonder why this is happening?

Why? I'd rather see Hendo vs. Marquardt or Maia, and I'd rather see Franklin against Luiz Cane. I know their first fight was close, but this seems to be getting neither nowhere. If Hendo wins again, it won't do much for a title shot at 185 or 205. If Franklin wins he still wouldn't have a top 10 win at 205 to get him into title talk.

[josh07039]

Why? I'd rather see Hendo vs. Marquardt or Maia, and I'd rather see Franklin against Luiz Cane. I know their first fight was close, but this seems to be getting neither nowhere. If Hendo wins again, it won't do much for a title shot at 185 or 205. If Franklin wins he still wouldn't have a top 10 win at 205 to get him into title talk.
I think they may want to slow Hendo's ascent up the middleweight rankings. For some reason, they don't seem enthused about a rematch. I think they are hoping Maia can win because they can build him as the biggest test of Silva's career rather than hype a rematch of a fight that ended definitively in the second round. I personally think of all the guys talked about as contenders(Maia, Marquardt, Hendo), Hendo has the best shot to beat Silva.

Also in terms of the immediate, a rematch of a closely disputed fight between two popular fighters seems more main event worthy than Franklin vs insert good 205er with no mainstream draw here. I would love to see Franklin start climbing the ladder at 205, but I think the UFC is more concerned with putting together a main event for UFC 103 that can draw.

One last thing, lately, Franklin seems to be in main events that don't have a ton of meaning for rankings. Hendo 1, Wand at catch, and now Hendo 2. Perhaps the UFC just sees him as a popular fighter that can draw, but not as a legitimate contender anymore.

[ironman4579]

I think they may want to slow Hendo's ascent up the middleweight rankings. For some reason, they don't seem enthused about a rematch. I think they are hoping Maia can win because they can build him as the biggest test of Silva's career rather than hype a rematch of a fight that ended definitively in the second round. I personally think of all the guys talked about as contenders(Maia, Marquardt, Hendo), Hendo has the best shot to beat Silva.

Also in terms of the immediate, a rematch of a closely disputed fight between two popular fighters seems more main event worthy than Franklin vs insert good 205er with no mainstream draw here. I would love to see Franklin start climbing the ladder at 205, but I think the UFC is more concerned with putting together a main event for UFC 103 that can draw.

One last thing, lately, Franklin seems to be in main events that don't have a ton of meaning for rankings. Hendo 1, Wand at catch, and now Hendo 2. Perhaps the UFC just sees him as a popular fighter that can draw, but not as a legitimate contender anymore.

I feel like Rich is becoming something of a gatekeeper/gate draw at 205. He doesn't really seem to be getting fights that move him up in the rankings at all. I love Ace, but the UFC might be shutting him down a bit.

[Ravens1991]

I agree, because he is just a level below Silva and Lyoto. I think he can take anyone at 185(except Silva, he has a shot against Henderson) and he can beat most of 205.

I would love to see a Franklin Thiago Silva match up.

[josh07039]

I agree, because he is just a level below Silva and Lyoto. I think he can take anyone at 185(except Silva, he has a shot against Henderson) and he can beat most of 205.

I would love to see a Franklin Thiago Silva match up.
The scenario I would like would be Thiago Silva vs. Vera and Jardine vs. Franklin. Then have Hendo take on the winner of Marquardt v. Maia to truly decide who will be deserving of a title shot.

[Ravens1991]

that would work. I just dont get Franklin Henderson re-match. I feel it would be best for 185 to just get Rich Franklin the hell away from it. He will beat anyone at 185(except anderson, and he is about 50/50 with Henderson). For the rest of his career he will be nothing but a **** block so to say. Except he will just mess up the division. I say make him a 205 gatekeeper permanently

[E-Man]

**** on a giant shingle, this can't be happening!

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/fedor-barnett-bout-in-jeopardy-18663

Affliction Entertainment and M-1 Global are looking for a new opponent to face Fedor Emelianenko at Affliction “Trilogy” on Aug. 1 at the Honda Center in Anaheim, Calif.

Multiple sources have told Sherdog.com that the California State Athletic Commission will not license Josh Barnett after testing positive in an undisclosed test. Calls to the California State Athletic Commission and Affliction Entertainment were not immediately returned.

Barnett said he had not been notified of any issues with his eligibility as of Tuesday evening.

“I took my test three weeks ago. I would have thought I would have heard something by now,” Barnett told Sherdog.com.

However, the former UFC heavyweight champion said he had not checked his phone messages recently and later added, “No matter what happens with this, I can assure you I will clear my name. This will not be something that I am defined by.”

Both Bobby Lashley and Vitor Belfort have agreed in principle to face the world’s No. 1 heavyweight on 11 days’ notice, according to two separate sources close to the negotiations. One source told Sherdog.com that Emelianenko will have the opportunity to choose between the two replacements.

Belfort, a former UFC light heavyweight champion, is scheduled to face American Top Team standout Jorge Santiago in a middleweight bout on the Aug. 1 card. Lashley, a former World Wrestling Entertainment star, is 4-0 since his professional debut seven months ago.

Greg Savage and Jeff Sherwood contributed to this report.

[ChezPower4]

**** on a giant shingle, this can't be happening!

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/fedor-barnett-bout-in-jeopardy-18663

That ******* sucks ass!!!! I'm gonna go jump off a bridge now

[themaninblack]

Affliction is prolly ****** now.

[Caddy]

It would be a absolutely terrible decision for Lashley to fight Fedor on 11 days notice. He would get absolutely dominated.

[ironman4579]

It would be a absolutely terrible decision for Lashley to fight Fedor on 11 days notice. He would get absolutely dominated.

It would be a mistake for anyone to fight guy of Fedor's calibre on 11 days notice. Belfort might do a little better simply because he's a more veteran fighter, but anyone is asking for a beating.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Really Vitor??? How much is he even weighing around now in his training??? This is horrible for Affliction.

[Caddy]

It would be a mistake for anyone to fight guy of Fedor's calibre on 11 days notice. Belfort might do a little better simply because he's a more veteran fighter, but anyone is asking for a beating.

Definitely true. But Lashley has hardly made a name for himself and he wants to take on the best in the world? Incredibly foolish and naive on his part. I think it is best for his career if he just keeps slowly working his way into the sport.

[ironman4579]

Definitely true. But Lashley has hardly made a name for himself and he wants to take on the best in the world? Incredibly foolish and naive on his part. I think it is best for his career if he just keeps slowly working his way into the sport.

True, getting dummied up in 30 seconds doesn't do much for anyone's reputation.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

At the same time though if he was actually offered a chance which I'm highly doubting, it's a low risk high reward fight for him. If he gets pwned everyone expected it and it's back to fighting lower level competition and building up, but if he at least does alright he will gain a lot of respect. Still though I can't fathom why he of all people would get a shot. It will probably end up being Vitor, but as much as I like him he just doesn't stack up at this point in his career even with his rejuvenation.

[MaxV]

So Fedor-Barnett fight is off? Is this official or just a rumor?

[E-Man]

At the same time though if he was actually offered a chance which I'm highly doubting, it's a low risk high reward fight for him. If he gets pwned everyone expected it and it's back to fighting lower level competition and building up, but if he at least does alright he will gain a lot of respect. Still though I can't fathom why he of all people would get a shot. It will probably end up being Vitor, but as much as I like him he just doesn't stack up at this point in his career even with his rejuvenation.

You're right on the money with this. Lashley is in a good position here. He doesn't need the money, so he doesn't have to take it. Whatever he does will be respected by fans, fighters, trainers, and organizations alike. If he turns it down everyone understands, because he's only had 4 fights in his first year. If he takes the fight then he is in a no lose situation. Everyone expects him to get seriously owned, and rightfully so. There's no shame in losing to the best heavyweight ever and one of MMA's best fighters of all time. Plenty of people have, and Lashley is in his first year. If he puts up a valiant effort in a loss, he'll always have the heart of the fans for displaying much heart. If he somehow wins, it'll be the upset of the year, and he's instantly an MMA legend. Lashley has everything going against him, but what if he really was some ultra strong badass that goes balls to the wall and pulls out something big? It's highly unlikely, but anything can happen.

Vitor is somewhat in the same position as Lashley. Vitor may have a very crazy fans thinking he's the old Vitor, and that he can own Anderson Silva in 12 seconds. Still, most people know he's an inconsistent fighter that's offers a decent threat standing. Not many people even rank him top 10, even after beating Lindland so quick. If he loses he won't lose much. Everyone expects it anyway, so he can only go balls to the wall hoping for a knockout. Fedor does throw looping punches that open him up to straight counters, so it's possible to beat Fedor. Of course that probably won't happen, but there's a very small chance it could.

The big loser here is Fedor. Not because he gets to fight either the big ripped pro wrestler, or the Brazilian Mike Tyson. I think he'd beat either badly. The sad thing is that this will probably be a waste of his time. He's been training for God knows how long, and his opponent get's busted for something stupid that's happened before. I know the substance that Barnett supposedly tested positive for isn't official yet, but he should know better. The ****** got popped after he beat Randy Couture some years back, so he should know that they're checking his piss like crazy. Now Fedor will have to either take a fight to where he gains nothing, or waste his training on a non fight. Fedor doesn't gain much from beating Vitor or Lashley. They're not on his level at all, so it's not like he'll get brownie points for beating them outside of Fedor's rabid fanboys. If he somehow loses it'll be the biggest upset in MMA history, and he'll be haunted by it for the rest of his career. People still can't get over Serra beating GSP. Can you imagine Fedor losing to Vitor or Lashley of all people? The only bright side would be some of Fedor's most annoying fans offing themselves.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Fedor Vs. Monson probably is the most interesting matchup that's feasibly possible.

[SuperKevin]

Nothing better than having to release a press statement disproving reports that you died like Kimo Leopoldo did

[Rob S]

this really sucks. a lot. ugh. Get Fedor to the UFC immediately. At least they would have replacements like Mir, Randy, Kongo, Velasquez, etc.

[ironman4579]

Nothing better than having to release a press statement disproving reports that you died like Kimo Leopoldo did

Why even bother? Has Kimo been relevant since like 1995? Was he even relevant then?

[SuperKevin]

Why even bother? Has Kimo been relevant since like 1995? Was he even relevant then?

Seriously. He's probably worth more dead than he is alive. Should have kept his mouth shut and watched the cash roll in

[ironman4579]

this really sucks. a lot. ugh. Get Fedor to the UFC immediately. At least they would have replacements like Mir, Randy, Kongo, Velasquez, etc.

This actually brings up a somewhat interesting discussion. If you could bring 2 fighters to the UFC, who would they be? I think Fedor is an obvious one for sure. I think my other one would be Eddie Alvarez. As Peefs said in the MMA draft thread, not only is he a great fighter, but he has a style that is very casual fan friendly, and he almost never has a boring fight.

[ironman4579]

Seriously. He's probably worth more dead than he is alive. Should have kept his mouth shut and watched the cash roll in

Yea, people probably would have paid good money for something from one of the first guys to actually give Royce Gracie a decent fight...................

[SuperKevin]

This actually brings up a somewhat interesting discussion. If you could bring 2 fighters to the UFC, who would they be? I think Fedor is an obvious one for sure. I think my other one would be Eddie Alvarez. As Peefs said in the MMA draft thread, not only is he a great fighter, but he has a style that is very casual fan friendly, and he almost never has a boring fight.

I wish UFC would add the featherweight class so Urijah Faber and Mike Brown could get some more mainstream exposure among casual MMA fans.

[Rob S]

There are plenty of exciting, good LW in the UFC. As awesome as Alvarez is, he isnt really needed. What is needed is someone to fight GSP or Anderson. UFC already has all the top 185ers, but Jake Shields deserves a shot. He isnt all that exciting, but the guy is really, really good. Is he going to beat GSP, probably not, but I would rather see him fight GSP than anyone else.

**** If it counts, I will say Miguel Torres hands down because the guy is mean.

[Rob S]

I wish UFC would add the featherweight class so Urijah Faber and Mike Brown could get some more mainstream exposure among casual MMA fans.



Mike Brown > Uriah

[ironman4579]

I wish UFC would add the featherweight class so Urijah Faber and Mike Brown could get some more mainstream exposure among casual MMA fans.


Good point. I was just thinking of current UFC weight classes, but yea, featherweight would be great.


There are plenty of exciting, good LW in the UFC. As awesome as Alvarez is, he isnt really needed. What is needed is someone to fight GSP or Anderson. UFC already has all the top 185ers, but Jake Shields deserves a shot. He isnt all that exciting, but the guy is really, really good. Is he going to beat GSP, probably not, but I would rather see him fight GSP than anyone else.

**** If it counts, I will say Miguel Torres hands down because the guy is mean.


Of course I agree that the LW division is pretty stacked in the UFC. I really wasn't thinking in that respect, just like I wasn't thinking about the featherweight division as a whole. I was just thinking of a guy I really like and would like to see fight some of the top guys in the UFC.

[SuperKevin]

Mike Brown > Uriah

I'll agree but Urijah is much more marketable in my opinion.

[Ravens1991]

Here are some fighters I want in the UFC.

A ton of LW in Japan(they would make 155 more exciting then it is now)
Sakurai,Zoromskis WW
Manhoef at MW(I especially want him, he makes Wand look like a *****)
King Mo at LHW
Overeem,Fedor at HW

[MaxV]

What about Aleksander Emelianenko?

[Ravens1991]

I would take him, I remember rumors of his going up against Kimbo now that would have been hilarious.

[UKfan]

Fedor vs Vitor confirmed, Vitor will at least be in fight shape having been training for Santiago. WAR VITOR!!!

http://www.thefightnetwork.com/news/mma/4020/exclusive__emelianenko_vs_belfort_official

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Fedor vs Vitor confirmed, Vitor will at least be in fight shape having been training for Santiago. WAR VITOR!!!

http://www.thefightnetwork.com/news/mma/4020/exclusive__emelianenko_vs_belfort_official

Tom Atencio said it wasn't confirmed. I doubt that they'd do it anyways.

[UKfan]

Lindland fought Fedor, Vitor beat Lindland, it could be their argument right there. I would do a HW vs Fedor obv, but we shall see. Tompkins from Xtreme Couture should be a reliable source IMO.

[Ravens1991]

This means bye bye affliction after this show.

[E-Man]

People outside the UFC I would love to see are Jacare, Eddie Alvarez, Shinya Aoki, Gilbert Melendez, Josh Thompson, Jake Shields, and some nice prospects like King Mo, Roger Gracie, and Joe Warren. Of course there's the obvious of Fedor.

There's a chance that Brett Rogers could be the guy to fight Fedor. I don't know how big a chance, but according to Dave Meltzer there is.

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/10021/

Tom Atencio, at the 3:30 p.m. press conference which just started, stated they are in negotiations with three different potential opponents, but would not list their names, and that no fight had been finalized.

One source in the middle of the negotiations has said no deal is completed and noted red tape attempting to cut through in getting Brett Rogers.
Shawn Tompkins, one of the trainers of Vitor Belfort, told Fight Network radio moments ago that Belfort had signed to face Fedor Emelianenko, replacing Josh Barnett, in the Affliction main event on 8/1.

Atencio would not mention any names being discussed, but did admit to them being in talks with Strikeforce (who Rogers is under contract with). He said he learned from the commission yesterday that Barnett had tested positive for a banned substance, but did not know the substance. He said the commisison is having Barnett's "B" sample tested and in the event the sample comes up clean, it is possible Barnett would fight. In California, there has never been a sitution where the results of the "B" sample didn't match the results of the "A" sample.

Atencio said managers everywhere are offering names and that he would have no problems finding an opponent and that Emelianenko was open for whoever they decided upon.

"Until I have a contract signed, it's all rumors," he said today.

I'd rather see Fedor fight Rogers than Belfort or Lashley. Lashley is too green, and Vitor is too small and inconsistent. Rogers isn't someone that I would pick to upset Fedor, but he poses better threats than both of them. He's got good power, size, and a chin. I'd pick Fedor to sub him early, but he has a better chance of tagging Fedor with a good shot that may end it.

[Ravens1991]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb235/kusokosla/Picture2-1.png

[Tampa 2 4 life]

I'd rather see Fedor fight Rogers than Belfort or Lashley. Lashley is too green, and Vitor is too small and inconsistent. Rogers isn't someone that I would pick to upset Fedor, but he poses better threats than both of them. He's got good power, size, and a chin. I'd pick Fedor to sub him early, but he has a better chance of tagging Fedor with a good shot that may end it.

Apparently Monson's people are talking to Atencio, I really think he's the best option.

[Rob S]

Fedor would rip Monson. I would rather see Vitor tbh......at least he has explosiveness that maybe could catch Fedor off guard. I am sure Fedor is devastated about this btw, he and Josh are real good friends.

[jayceheathman]

It would be a absolutely terrible decision for Lashley to fight Fedor on 11 days notice. He would get absolutely dominated.

It wouldnt be a bad decision for an up and coming fighter. If you beat him or at least put out a good fight then you get your name out there and can potentially make a lot of money. No one blamed Koscheck for losing to Alves since he didnt get too much training notice so its not like whoever takes it has anything to lose. Fedor will be the huge favorite for whoever takes it. Everyone is talking about Brock vs Fedor when Lashley is just as inexperienced as Lesnar is and has a great wrestling background as well. Missouri Valley is no University of Minnesota but he still won 3 National Championships. If anything, Lashley or whoever takes it comes out with a ton of experience of getting to fight one of the top fighters in the world.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Fedor would rip Monson. I would rather see Vitor tbh......at least he has explosiveness that maybe could catch Fedor off guard. I am sure Fedor is devastated about this btw, he and Josh are real good friends.

I dunno, if Monson could somehow get Fedor to the ground, it could get interesting.

[Ravens1991]

there have been rumors of a Bisping Wand fight at UFC 105. And that would be a nice fight. I got Wand by KO!!!!

[jayceheathman]

It would be a absolutely terrible decision for Lashley to fight Fedor on 11 days notice. He would get absolutely dominated.

Was it you that I made that sig bet with over the GSP vs Alves fight? I think it was you but I dont want to go searching through all the pages again. You can send me the sig whenever you find one.

[E-Man]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb235/kusokosla/Picture2-1.png
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
I dunno, if Monson could somehow get Fedor to the ground, it could get interesting.
Monson has a better ground game than Fedor. I think he'd win in a grappling match against Fedor, but of course this is MMA. I'd pick Fedor, but it would be really interesting to see if Monson can avoid the stand up.
there have been rumors of a Bisping Wand fight at UFC 105. And that would be a nice fight. I got Wand by KO!!!!

That fight could go either way, but Wand by KO seems like the best pick. Bisping doesn't have the power to knock out Wanderlei, and Wanderlei always goes for the kill. I see him going balls to the wall until he gets the KO.

[Caddy]

Was it you that I made that sig bet with over the GSP vs Alves fight? I think it was you but I dont want to go searching through all the pages again. You can send me the sig whenever you find one.

Definitely wasn't me. Maybe you'll have to go searching through those pages?

[ChezPower4]

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb235/kusokosla/Picture2-1.png

That's awesome

[Ravens1991]

Yea have fun being a freak show in Japan Josh.

[josh07039]

Obviously it would have been dishonest and taken away from the integrity of the even, but I almost would have preferred for the fight to have taken place, and Barnett to have gotten caught afterward. If it had been under the UFC's testing policy, there is a very good chance he wouldn't have gotten caught at all or been allowed to fight and then caught, which does raise some questions about whether or not random drug tests should be added to the UFC.

[MaxV]

I've always liked Josh. I hope this doesn't force him into obscurity or end his career all together.

I want Josh to be in UFC also. Unfortunately, there is bad blood between him and Dana, so that won't happen.

[E-Man]

Obviously it would have been dishonest and taken away from the integrity of the even, but I almost would have preferred for the fight to have taken place, and Barnett to have gotten caught afterward. If it had been under the UFC's testing policy, there is a very good chance he wouldn't have gotten caught at all or been allowed to fight and then caught, which does raise some questions about whether or not random drug tests should be added to the UFC.

I could've sworn they did drug tests before UFC 91. I remember people making a big deal about it because they wanted to see if Brock was going to test positive. As for the Barnett test being random or not, that's a little up in the air. Barnett says it's not, and some CSAC guy says something about it being random. At this point who knows? It's a weird situation.

[UKfan]

Rob, Bisping has confirmed the Wand fight on his facebook. :( I think Mike loses.

[Ravens1991]

wow that will be a good fight. I see Bisping using the same strategy he used for Leben. It will also be interesting to see how he returns from the vicious KO..

[E-Man]

I'd give Bisping a better chance if I didn't see him lose his mind during the Henderson fight. Seriously, who expected him to move towards Dan's right hand all fight long? If Bisping fought like he did against Leben he'd have a real good chance to beat Wanderlei. I'm wondering if he's going to do something crazy, and try to brawl with Wand like a nutjob.

[Rob S]

Monson has a better ground game than Fedor. I think he'd win in a grappling match against Fedor, but of course this is MMA. I'd pick Fedor, but it would be really interesting to see if Monson can avoid the stand up.


I think people overrate JJguys so much its crazy. I mean, how many times have we seen a great JJ guy get it to the ground and just get pounded. It happens all the time. If it goes to the ground Fedor would GnP the crap out of him......even if Monson was on top, no way Fedor doesnt escape.....he is too fast and too smart. Monson has no shot at beating Fedor in my mind.

[E-Man]

Monson is an ADCC champ. That's why I think his ground game is better than Fedor's. Fedor has a good ground game, but on a pure grappling standpoint he's not spectacular. The key word is grappling though. This isn't a grappling match, and Fedor as an MMA fighter is light years ahead of where Monson will ever be. I agree that he would destroy Monson, but Monson does have a chance to do something.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Monson is an ADCC champ. That's why I think his ground game is better than Fedor's. Fedor has a good ground game, but on a pure grappling standpoint he's not spectacular. The key word is grappling though. This isn't a grappling match, and Fedor as an MMA fighter is light years ahead of where Monson will ever be. I agree that he would destroy Monson, but Monson does have a chance to do something.

I expect Monson just dive at Fedor's legs at the start of the fight if it happens.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

WTF???:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/affliction-cancels-trilogy-18705

Looks like Josh Barnett just ended affliction, probably for good now. We already knew they were going into the dumps but I at least wanted to see this event happen. Gosh there were so many good fights aside from the Fedor match. I am pissed.

[josh07039]

WTF???:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/affliction-cancels-trilogy-18705

Looks like Josh Barnett just ended affliction, probably for good now. We already knew they were going into the dumps but I at least wanted to see this event happen. Gosh there were so many good fights aside from the Fedor match. I am pissed. I doubt it, but I'm hoping it is rescheduled when they can get Fedor a legit heavyweight opponent. Maybe a few months after the Strikeforce show, they can get Werdum or perhaps Strikeforce will let them use Rogers later on down the road. The thing is, there aren't many heavyweights out there that are tough competition and have any kind of name in the U.S. I assume Affliction is done promoting though after this fiasco.

I'm not sure I believe it, but the saying there is no such thing as bad publicity may be applicable here. Perhaps this will work in Affliction's favor if they do intend to reschedule this event.

[E-Man]

Mannnnnnnn **** Josh Barnett!!!

[JF4]

Just get your ass to a real organization Fedor! He better be in the UFC within the year!

[E-Man]

I think Fedor goes to Sengoku after this.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

I think Fedor goes to Sengoku after this.

To fight Josh Barnett? That could be big for Japanese MMA if it happens.

[bernbabybern820]

Wtf is going on?

No Overeem vs. Werdum
Riggs is hospitalized so he can't fight Nick Diaz anymore
Affliction is canceled

[Rob S]

Card is done.....Affliction is done

[E-Man]

To fight Josh Barnett? That could be big for Japanese MMA if it happens.

I was thinking that too. Fedor fights Barnett in Japan later in the year, and he starts the year off next year by fighting Satoshi Ishii. I have a feeling that we won't see Fedor ever fight in a cage. I hope I'm wrong, but the Japanese orgs uses rings(lol Rings), and I think that DREAM and Sengoku are chomping at the bit to get Fedor back in Japan. Barnett will never fight in the U.S. again I bet. Japan will probably welcome him with open arms.

[JF4]

Card is done.....Affliction is done

I read that Affliction is still set on having more shows even after this debacle. Unlike EliteXC i'm sure they probably still have the cash to do it but I think their mistake is just trying to compete with UFC, which cannot happen.

Strikeforce's approach on the other hand is probably much smarter. Still a quality fight league but you don't really see them trying to compete directly with the UFC. They realize they are more of a stepping-stone/ fall back organization and they aren't trying to become much more than that.

[bernbabybern820]

I read that Affliction is still set on having more shows even after this debacle. Unlike EliteXC i'm sure they probably still have the cash to do it but I think their mistake is just trying to compete with UFC, which cannot happen.

Strikeforce's approach on the other hand is probably much smarter. Still a quality fight league but you don't really see them trying to compete directly with the UFC. They realize they are more of a stepping-stone/ fall back organization and they aren't trying to become much more than that.

IDK. Ive been reading reports that Affliction is going back to becoming a sponsor for the UFC. I highly doubt Dana would agree to this if Affliction wasn't going to fold.

[JF4]

IDK. Ive been reading reports that Affliction is going back to becoming a sponsor for the UFC. I highly doubt Dana would agree to this if Affliction wasn't going to fold.

Lol what a difference a couple hours makes...I read that earlier on today and I just checked www.mmajunkie.com to see that you are exactly right! Kind of surprising actually

Here's the article for anyone who hasn't seen it...
http://mmajunkie.com/news/15625/affliction-folds-mma-promotion-will-sponsor-ufc.mma

Fedor please do the right thing!!!!!!

[E-Man]

Affliction is folding, but they were probably done for anyway after this. They've been hemorrhaging money, and they weren't selling much to see any progress. This should be a lesson to future MMA promoters. You've gotta market to be successful. I know Affliction's existence was to have a few MMA shows to market their clothing line, but they completely missed the marketing part. They grossly overpaid fighters beyond their market value, while they could've spent that money on marketing their event instead. You can't pay fighters two or three times their market value if you don't have the money to let people know they're fighting. Affliction was bad for MMA and the fighters. Alot of people will blame Josh Barnett. He deserves some blame for ******* up royally like this, but Affliction's faults as an organization are the reason why there's no event next weekend. In any other notable organization this wouldn't have happened. I hope that some of these elitist MMA fans/UFC haters realize why companies like Affliction are bad for the sport. All these dumbasses bashing Dana and the UFC should realize that the UFC wouldn't be so grossly incompetent to leave fighters in the situation they're in now. Things like this is why I really hated Affliction as an org. There was some good fighters there, but they were just totally doing wrong by them behind the scenes.

[themaninblack]

Apparently Dana White is going to be making some big announcements in a press conference next Friday. I'm hoping this includes Fedor? Tito is probably a given at this point.

[UKfan]

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9221&zoneid=2

Affliction is now officially a UFC sponsor

[MaxV]

I hope Fedor is UFC bound.

[ChezPower4]

I hope Fedor is UFC bound.

Don't we all

[josh07039]

Just a couple of my thoughts on the whole thing, even if no one asked for them.
1. Even with Affliction gone, I'm not too confident about Fedor coming to the UFC sooner or later. I really think his management team jsut doesn't want him in the UFC. The exclusive contract argument is nonsense, especially now, because I'm sure the UFC will pay him more than anyone else. Additionally, the UFC is never going to cross promote with M-1, another big sticking point. However, I never though Tito would be coming back and that seems like a distinct possibility.

2. Outside of canceling the last card, which was more showtime's doing than Afflcition's, Afflcition treated their fighters well. They paid them a crazy amount over market value that will support them for a while compared to what they will be making, even in the UFC. This shows that the UFC's payroll system may be on the low side, but is much more reasonable. It's clear that salaries will take time to go up as it did in other sports. I think the key will be fighters unionizing rather than having competition from other organizations.

3. I read an article about how the Japanese press is not going to give Barnett a pass on this. He may have trouble finding big fights, even in Japan.

4. From the stuff I read on the steroids Barnett was using, the UFC needs to institute more rigorous testing policy. Having a test right before or directly after the fight is just window dressing. If a guy used steroids for training, he can cycle off by the time of the fight.

[E-Man]

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This is comedy gold! Haha!

[SuperKevin]

Ugh. With every organization that folds, Dana White becomes even more of an asshole. When is someone going to take him to court for monopolizing the American MMA market?

[josh07039]

Ugh. With every organization that folds, Dana White becomes even more of an asshole. When is someone going to take him to court for monopolizing the American MMA market? Yes Dana White is an asshole, but I see what is happening with MMA as no more illegal than the stranglehold of the NBA, NFL, or MLB on their respective sports. The UFC brand is already like the Ipod of MMA. Many people say UFC fighting instead of MMA just like people will say Ipod instead of MP3 player. It's not like the UFC has engaged in unfair business practices as far as I know. I mean, buying Pride was not even borderline illegal, it was an acquisition of a dieing brand. Affliction and EliteXc had very poor business models centered around overpaying a few choice fighters to base the company off of. True the UFC is ruthless, but most successful businesses are. It would be downright hypocritical for Dana to get sued while the other major sports leagues can operate with immunity.

[Ravens1991]

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This is comedy gold! Haha!


that was funny, the fight they were watching w/ Wand and Mark Hunt is one of my favorite pride fights ever. I still dont know how Mark Hunt won that fight, horrible decision. When people claim the refs were all for Wand in pride I tell them to watch that fight

[E-Man]

I've gotta watch that fight again. It's been awhile since I've seen it, and I really can't remember thinking who won between Wanderlei and Hunt.

[E-Man]

Here's some good news.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/sobral-mousasi-moved-to-strikeforce-18748

Renato “Babalu” Sobral will defend his light heavyweight title against Gegard Mousasi at Strikeforce “Carano vs. Cyborg” on Aug. 15 at the HP Pavilion in San Jose, Calif.

The bout was originally scheduled for Affliction’s “Trilogy” event on Aug. 1 in Anaheim, Calif. Affliction announced the cancellation of its third event Friday, and signed a brand sponsorship deal with the UFC instead. The cancelled event left 22 fighters in limbo, including the world’s No. 1 heavyweight, Fedor Emelianenko.

Sobral (35-8) submitted Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou via a second-round brabo choke at Affliction’s final event on Jan. 24.

Mousasi (25-2-1), a former Dream middleweight champion, will make his U.S. debut against the Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt. The 23-year-old Armenian-born fighter submitted Mark Hunt with a first-round armbar at Dream 9 on May 26.

The title bout will join two others on Strikeforce's Aug. 15 card. In the main event, Gina Carano and Cristiane “Cyborg” Santos vie for the first-ever Strikeforce 145-pound women's championship. Lightweight champion Josh Thomson will also tangle with interim champion Gilbert Melendez in a rematch of their highly regarded June 2008 tilt.

[themaninblack]

Why isn't Babalu in the UFC anymore?

[josh07039]

Why isn't Babalu in the UFC anymore?He refused to let go of a choke on David Heath even after Heath clearly tapped. I believe he stopped when Heath passed out.

[fenikz]

Here's some good news.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/sobral-mousasi-moved-to-strikeforce-18748

that's not a bad card

[josh07039]

that's not a bad cardIt could be pretty great if they get interesting match ups for Diaz and Werdum. I was pretty unenthusiastic about Diaz against Riggs, so I assume that the replacement will be better. As for Werdum, the replacement is a little trickier.

[Ravens1991]

Does anyone think Dana will stack the UFC 103 card because Mayweather is fighting the same day? Mayweather has talked sh!t on MMA and I could see Dana putting the best out there to get more buys then the Mayweather fight so he can get the last laugh.

[Rob S]

The card is already set:

-Dan Henderson (25-7; #5 Middleweight)* vs. Rich Franklin (25-4)†
-Josh Koscheck (12-4; #5 Welterweight)* vs. Frank Trigg (19-6)
-Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic (25-6-2; #7 Heavyweight)* vs. Junior dos Santos (8-1)
-Martin Kampmann (15-2; #7 Welterweight)* vs. Mike Swick (14-2; #9 Welterweight)*
-Tyson Griffin (13-2) vs. Hermes Franca (19-7)
-Sean Sherk (33-4-1) vs. Gleison Tibau (17-7)
-Efrain Escudero (11-0) vs. Cole Miller (15-3)
-Drew McFedries (8-5) vs. Tomasz Drwal (16-2-1)
-Jason Brilz (17-1) vs. Eliot Marshall (7-1)

[josh07039]

The card is already set:

-Dan Henderson (25-7; #5 Middleweight)* vs. Rich Franklin (25-4)†
-Josh Koscheck (12-4; #5 Welterweight)* vs. Frank Trigg (19-6)
-Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic (25-6-2; #7 Heavyweight)* vs. Junior dos Santos (8-1)
-Martin Kampmann (15-2; #7 Welterweight)* vs. Mike Swick (14-2; #9 Welterweight)*
-Tyson Griffin (13-2) vs. Hermes Franca (19-7)
-Sean Sherk (33-4-1) vs. Gleison Tibau (17-7)
-Efrain Escudero (11-0) vs. Cole Miller (15-3)
-Drew McFedries (8-5) vs. Tomasz Drwal (16-2-1)
-Jason Brilz (17-1) vs. Eliot Marshall (7-1)Actually apparently, there is some question regarding the main event. Supposedly the main event was taken down from UFC.com, causing rumors about possibly adding Tito or Belfort or both to the card. I think it has been mostly speculation, but Tito v. Franklin and Belfort v. Henderson as co main events would make for a phenomenal card. I assume that the ideal scenario of those two fights won't happen, because I'm not sure about Belfort's contract or Tito's health and condition. However, I expect this card to be improved because of how competitive Dana is.

[Rob S]

See......I actually would rather have Franklin vs Hendo. Franklin destroys Tito. Belfort-Hendo is slightly more interesting, but only because of Vitor's recent form, how quickly we forget when Vitor was almost unanimously considered done. Hendo could very well give us all (and Vitor) a reality check. I would rather see Franklin and Hendo get it on.............I love that fight actually. Hell, add Tito-Vitor to the card and then the winner will garner some legitimacy and will have earned a shot at a top 5 contender.

[josh07039]

See......I actually would rather have Franklin vs Hendo. Franklin destroys Tito. Belfort-Hendo is slightly more interesting, but only because of Vitor's recent form, how quickly we forget when Vitor was almost unanimously considered done. Hendo could very well give us all (and Vitor) a reality check. I would rather see Franklin and Hendo get it on.............I love that fight actually. Hell, add Tito-Vitor to the card and then the winner will garner some legitimacy and will have earned a shot at a top 5 contender.I would actually prefer to not have Hendo Franklin this soon. Additionally, I don't think the bout makes much sense for either guy. Both want to move up in their respective divisions and claim a title shot. Franklin won't move up in 205 by beating a ranked middleweight and Hendo won't be any closer to a shot at Silva if he beats Franklin.

Franklin fighting Tito makes sense because, before his injury lay off, Tito was a fringe top ten 205er and Franklin is in the 7-10 range depending upon who you ask. If Franklin beats Tito, he beats a big name at 205 and gains momentum for a big bout to set him up for a title shot. If Tito wins, he shows that he is healthy and ready to make a run. It's a win win for the UFC, because either way a fighter that can draw will move up and gain more legitimacy in the division.

Belfort against Hendo also makes perfect sense because it will either set up Silva against an exciting guy that has yet to fight Siva in Belfort or it will prove beyond a doubt that Hendo is ready for a rematch.

Belfort v. Tito can't work, because Tito is a huge 205er and I don't there is any way he could cut to 205. Belfort has said that he won't jump around in weight class and that he is comfortable at 185.

[Ravens1991]

yea I really think there will be some changes to the card. Dana won't let Mayweather get more PPV buys then him.

[Rob S]

I think the UFC will do more buys regardless...........they have been hitting over 1 million with big cards for the last ten shows or so. As long as they market it hard, they will win. If they dont tho, May will kill them. Mayweather did around 850,000 vs Hatton and I would expect it to be close to that again for him. I just hope my friend gets both! I will be happy just watching the boxing tho.

[Rob S]

I would actually prefer to not have Hendo Franklin this soon. Additionally, I don't think the bout makes much sense for either guy. Both want to move up in their respective divisions and claim a title shot. Franklin won't move up in 205 by beating a ranked middleweight and Hendo won't be any closer to a shot at Silva if he beats Franklin.

Franklin fighting Tito makes sense because, before his injury lay off, Tito was a fringe top ten 205er and Franklin is in the 7-10 range depending upon who you ask. If Franklin beats Tito, he beats a big name at 205 and gains momentum for a big bout to set him up for a title shot. If Tito wins, he shows that he is healthy and ready to make a run. It's a win win for the UFC, because either way a fighter that can draw will move up and gain more legitimacy in the division.

Belfort against Hendo also makes perfect sense because it will either set up Silva against an exciting guy that has yet to fight Siva in Belfort or it will prove beyond a doubt that Hendo is ready for a rematch.

Belfort v. Tito can't work, because Tito is a huge 205er and I don't there is any way he could cut to 205. Belfort has said that he won't jump around in weight class and that he is comfortable at 185.

I see were you are coming from, but I just want to see the best fighters fight each other. Sure your plan makes total sense from a Marketing perspective and what not, but I dont think the quality is there, I just dont. Now, the weight are an issue (I still think of Vitor as 205), but I just hate sacrificing quality for marketing. Maybe people will buy a Tito fight, but to be honest I could care less about seeing Tito right now. He is probably in it for a payday anyway.

[E-Man]

I certainly hope that the UFC 103 card is stacked, because i've got a really good chance to go see it live. Tito vs. Franklin is a decent test for both. If Tito wins he gets a win over a top 10 205 guy in Franklin. If Franklin wins, it's not the best win ever, but it would prove that size wouldn't be an issue at 205. Tito is pretty big at 205, and he's always had some really good strength.

I really don't care to see Hendo fight Belfort again. He already destroyed him at PRIDE 33, and I'm still not sold on Belfort's recent wins. I think Belfort is a viable guy at 185, but I don't think he could contend with top 5 guys like Henderson. I'd rather see Hendo wait a little bit to fight the loser of Marquardt and Maia, or the winner of Okami vs. Miller. Belfort I'd rather see fight someone that could test his ground game, or a gatekeeper like Leben. Leben gets alot of hate, but people forget that he has an 8-4 UFC record. If he beats Rosholt at UFC 102, he'll have 9 wins inside the octagon. He'll be a good test to Belfort's consistency.

As for the Mayweather vs. UFC thing, I think Mayweather sells more PPVs but loses many to the UFC. Mayweather is a big star in a more recognizable sport, and he hasn't fought in almost two years. His return is guaranteed to do big numbers, but the UFC has grown so tremendously in the past three years that he'll lose out to many viewers. UFC is pretty damn popular, and it's getting more recognizable by the day. The thing that really breaks ground now is that UFC 103 will be in one of America's biggest metro areas. If the UFC does great around here, they'll tap into one of the biggest markets there is. Mayweather would be wise to shut his mouth about the UFC before this fight, because he'll only bring more attention to them. He'll just be giving them free advertising, and if Tito gets on that PPV he's digging the hole even further.

[Rob S]

Mayweather vs Miguel Torres would be so sweet tho. Admit it, you wanna see it :) Miguel may be dumb enough to stand with him.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Miguel Torres would eat him alive in the cage. He would just knee the **** out of him.

[Ravens1991]

I think the UFC will do more buys regardless...........they have been hitting over 1 million with big cards for the last ten shows or so. As long as they market it hard, they will win. If they dont tho, May will kill them. Mayweather did around 850,000 vs Hatton and I would expect it to be close to that again for him. I just hope my friend gets both! I will be happy just watching the boxing tho.


I could see that now, if they get more buys Dana will say we get more buys when we dont have any mega star or a title fight.

[josh07039]

I see were you are coming from, but I just want to see the best fighters fight each other. Sure your plan makes total sense from a Marketing perspective and what not, but I dont think the quality is there, I just dont. Now, the weight are an issue (I still think of Vitor as 205), but I just hate sacrificing quality for marketing. Maybe people will buy a Tito fight, but to be honest I could care less about seeing Tito right now. He is probably in it for a payday anyway. Obviously it does work from a marketing perspective, but I'm not really concerned with that. My point was that both fights make sense within the structure of finding contenders. Hendo and Franklin has no bigger purpose outside of a grudge match. If both guys are seen as legitimate contenders in their respective weight classes, they need to be fighting opponents that will help them earn title shots. It would be almost like a catchweight bout in that it won't do much to help the winner of the fight.

I think Belfort v. Henderson would be more of a fight to boost perception of Hendo a bit than a legit fight to earn a title shot. I think many people don't remember Hendo's fight with Silva beyond getting choked out in the second. I think Hendo has already earned a title shot based on the fact that he won the first from Silva and has beaten 3 tough opponents(even if one was at 205). I think the UFC isn't very enthusiastic about giving him another shot until he erases some of the perceived stench of losing to Silva once already.

If Tito is healthy, that fight might not be as easy for Franklin as people think. If Tito is prepared and healthy he has the ability to beat Franklin. I don't think that Tito is much of a contender anymore, but he could serve as a really good gatekeeper. Granted, he was one really competitive against Machida in his last bout and he was supposedly fighting with a terribly messed up back then. If Tito can be believed about his condition, having a repaired back will only make him better, even if he is a bit older.

[E-Man]

Mayweather vs Miguel Torres would be so sweet tho. Admit it, you wanna see it :) Miguel may be dumb enough to stand with him.

Man who wouldn't want to see that epic battle? Torres is hands down one of MMA's best, and Mayweather had legitimate claim to being the pound for pound best when he was boxing. I'll always think that an MMA fighter could beat a boxer in MMA, but Maywether is so skilled that he always has a chance. I don't think Torres would be dub to stand with Mayweather either. Torres has a really good clinch game, great body movement, and he's got a damn good chin. He could destroy Mayweather in the clinch all night if he chose to. Of course Torres' ground game is ultra sick, so if it goes to the ground it's over in a few seconds.





......and I'm seeing the LA Times mentioning that Fedor is close to finalizing a UFC deal. I'm not going to post the article out of fear that it may jinx this, but since the LA Times is a pretty credible source, I thought I'd mention it.

[Rob S]

He might not even be able to get Mayweather in a clinch and he would get eaten alive standing if Mayweather can keep the distance. Torres would have to shoot imo and get an easy, easy sub. Boxers are so superior on their feet. You dont realize it unless you have been in with a guy who is an elite level boxer, they are just so fast, so elusive and hit so freaking hard. Not to mention they actually have good technique with their puches (holy ****! straight punches in MMA).............Look, I love MMA. I am not a boxing fan that hates on it. That said, if you think any MMA fighter can box with the elite, your crazy. Now, the clinch game is an answer to this, but I really think an elite boxer's jab, movement, and general ring generalship and agility would rule on the feet.

Now, would I ever pick a boxer over an MMA fighter than has any inkling of a ground game, hell no.

[E-Man]

I don't think Miguel would box with Mayweather though. That would be literally insane to do that. I think standing though, he could use his Muay Thai game to work Mayweather over. Mayweather has never been kicked before, and that would put him at a serious disadvantage. I know what you're saying with boxers being so elusive and hard hitting, and that's a big threat to Torres. But Torres can use so much that Mayweather hasn't seen before, and that's just standing. I know boxers work the clinch, but not like Thai guys. It would be a hell of an adjustment having a guy's forearms dragging you toward his knees. Looking at how Torres worked those knees to Mizugaki's body, I can't see Mayweather lasting long with that.

[Rob S]

The clinch would be death for FMJ, that for sure. The issue is Torres getting close enough to touch him without lunging in leaving his chin exposed. I have been in with a pretty good slick boxer (Golden Glove winning caliber) and I can tell you it would be tough to even get close if his gameplan was to keep the distance. Not saying Torres cant do it, but boxers know how to move incredibly well. It would be interesting. Leg kick could be an issue actually, but again, most MMA fighters will drop their lead hand when throwing a leg kick and that could be big troule if a guy as quick as Mayweather is in counterpunch mode.

[E-Man]

You're right about boxer's footwork. It's so damn incredible to watch. I've really fallen off my boxing knowledge in recent years, but I still like to watch a fight every now and then. It's called the Sweet Science for a reason. I wish we could see some top level boxers take a stab at MMA, but the way both sports are set up makes it next to impossible.

[Rob S]

Yeah man, boxing is what I love. Nothing beats a great boxing fight in all of sports. The crossover is something that would interest me, but like I said, I dont see many boxers winning if their opponent has any semblance of a ground game.

[E-Man]

Yeah that ground game is pretty hard to learn, and I can't see top level guys like Pacman making the transition while they're making millions already in what they're good at. The money is the bigger issue though. No org has the money to pay a guy like Mayweather $20 million to fight. The UFC could pay the most, but they have way too many other fighters to pay before givng a guy that type of money.

[Rob S]

Oh, no way a boxer would ever fight for MMA money. It would need to be a cross promotion between Golden Boy or Top Rank and the UFC I would think.

[Ravens1991]

apparently Fedor and UFC are extremly close. also UFC removed the 103 fights from the website. It will be interesting what the announcement is friday

[E-Man]

Dana apparently has a "laundry list of things to mention," but I'm not holding my breath that one will be Fedor. I really hope that Fedor signing is one of the things that will happen, but I've learned not to get too amped for it.

[Rob S]

I have to feel like it will get done. Fedor does want to fight the best, I dont doubt that. I will start doubting that, however, if he doesnt go to the UFC now. He really doesnt have any other legit option aside from Barnett in Japan. Get in the UFC and get the Brock fight done first fight. Dont risk a Cro Cop incident.

[themaninblack]

Please make it happen. PLEASE!

[Saints 4 Lyfe]

so can i get confirmation on Fedor to UFC before i officially cum in my pants?

[E-Man]

Fedor is supposed to be holding a press conference today about his future, and Dana is holding a press conference Friday about "a laundry list of things to mention." I think we'll see alot of things happen Friday, so that'll be the day. Everything now is speculation and rumors from unconfirmed sources.

[themaninblack]

Oh my god if this happens I will be sooo happy.

[Rob S]

http://sherdog.com/news/articles/white-on-fedor-we-tried-everything-18850

Well, this looks promising :(

[MaxV]

Jeez, Fedor is just too loyal to this Vadim Finkelstein character.

I'm going to be pissed if this deal doesn't happen.

[josh07039]

Jeez, Fedor is just too loyal to this Vadim Finkelstein character.

I'm going to be pissed if this deal doesn't happen.
It looks like it just isn't happening. The UFC will not co promote and M-1 will only co-promote. It could be that I'm biased, but M-1 is being unreasonable. The UFC is easily the biggest organization and has done the most to help the sport grow. M-1 is a piddling little nothing that is not even close to the same level as the UFC. Why would the UFC agree to split the profits with M-1 and have half of their cards be nobodies from the M-1 roster. The UFC does not need Fedor to be successful, they want him largely for the sake of the fans. Additionally, the UFC's proposed deal, regardless of which leaked proposal you believe, had many concessions(Sambo tournaments, he could advertise M-1 with clothing and banners, etc). M-1 really has an unrealistic view of its standing in the MMA world.

Vadim is supposed to look out for Fedor and the company, however, it seems like he just wants to use Fedor as his meal ticket, rather than doing what would be best for his monetary future and legacy.

[JF4]

It looks like it just isn't happening. The UFC will not co promote and M-1 will only co-promote. It could be that I'm biased, but M-1 is being unreasonable. The UFC is easily the biggest organization and has done the most to help the sport grow. M-1 is a piddling little nothing that is not even close to the same level as the UFC. Why would the UFC agree to split the profits with M-1 and have half of their cards be nobodies from the M-1 roster. The UFC does not need Fedor to be successful, they want him largely for the sake of the fans. Additionally, the UFC's proposed deal, regardless of which leaked proposal you believe, had many concessions(Sambo tournaments, he could advertise M-1 with clothing and banners, etc). M-1 really has an unrealistic view of its standing in the MMA world.

Vadim is supposed to look out for Fedor and the company, however, it seems like he just wants to use Fedor as his meal ticket, rather than doing what would be best for his monetary future and legacy.

You are not biased and pretty much hit it right on the head.

If Fedor truly want's to prove he is the best in the world he has no choice other than to come to UFC. If he wants to continue to fight mostly mid-level fighters than that's his choice too, but it will only tarnish his reputation in the long-run. He needs to take a step back and think for himself a minute. I know he is a true warrior and, pun intended, an ultimate figther, and as that he needs to take the next step in his career. At this point there is no other organization that can come close to competing with the UFC. Because I think Fedor might have that mentality of wanting to prove himself more I still hold out hope that this deal can be done at one point.

[josh07039]

You are not biased and pretty much hit it right on the head.

If Fedor truly want's to prove he is the best in the world he has no choice other than to come to UFC. If he wants to continue to fight mostly mid-level fighters than that's his choice too, but it will only tarnish his reputation in the long-run. He needs to take a step back and think for himself a minute. I know he is a true warrior and, pun intended, an ultimate figther, and as that he needs to take the next step in his career. At this point there is no other organization that can come close to competing with the UFC. Because I think Fedor might have that mentality of wanting to prove himself more I still hold out hope that this deal can be done at one point. The reason I don't think arguing that he is the best of all time and he should fight the best will work is because Fedor doesn't seem to view himself in a historical context. Unless its false modesty, Fedor just sees himself as another fighter, a good fighter, but just another fighter that doesn't have a responsibility to the overall sport.

[E-Man]

This Fedor and M-1 stuff is way past sad for me. I can't blame M-1 for trying at first, but at some point you have to be reasonable. M-1 has nothing to offer the UFC besides Fedor(and maybe Mousasi), so the UFC stands to gain almost nothing from co-promoting. What if Fedor comes in and gets smashed by someone like Cro Cop? Then you've just wasted profits with a company that has nothing else to offer you. Besides, it's not like Fedor is a huge draw anyway. People keep acting like a Fedor/Brock pay per view will be the biggest UFC ever. Fedor has almost no drawing history, so that ppv would draw on Brock's name and whoever else is marketable. The only thing the UFC stands to gain is a really good fighter who could lose at any moment.

[Rob S]

I think the deal will get done, just a hunch tho.

Also, Fedor is the greatest of all time right now......its not really that close. GSP has a definite chance at catching him tho. Even that will be tough tho, Fedor is undefeated in the eyes of almost every hardcore MMA fan.

[El Peefs?????]

The thing that Fedor has going for him is that hes a cybernetic organism with a living, breathing, human endoskeleton.

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/ethon711/mma/fedor/fedor-termintor.jpg

[themaninblack]

I saw a video interview with Fedor earlier and it seemed like he was REALLY trying to make it clear that he only has 3 fights left on his M1 contract. Maybe it was just the way that his language was being translated but it did rly seem like he was trying to get that point across. Maybe in a year or so he will be without M1? And I do realize he is a part owner, btw.

[MetSox17]

Fedor is a little scared prick ass *****. Oh, you're part owner of M-1? Well wake the **** up and realize that UFC will NEVER, EVER in the existence of the sport partner up with another promoter as crappy as M-1. At the end of the day, this is all on Emilianenko. Dana White has offered everything to him, money, the ability to promote during fights, a title shot right way, and he still declines. How ******** can he be? White has already made it as clear as possible that there is no way in hell that M-1 is gonna co-promote and essentially take a huge chunk of profits, so why doesn't he just agree to the terms?

There's no other possible reason than him being scared of fighting the best in the world.

[fenikz]

Fedor definitely isn't scared of anyone in the UFC, the fact is he makes more money than the 3 mil that the UFC offered him when he gets 50% of sales, plus he is getting paid by EA for there MMA game certainly upwards of a mil

[MetSox17]

Fedor definitely isn't scared of anyone in the UFC, the fact is he makes more money than the 3 mil that the UFC offered him when he gets 50% of sales, plus he is getting paid by EA for there MMA game certainly upwards of a mil

Well no ****, but he's borderline ******** if he thinks the UFC is gonna cough up 50% of their sales. This ain't some Japanese kraker jack pay per view. This is the biggest selling PPV sport in the world.

[Rob S]

yeah, that may be the case metsox, but he certainly isnt scared to fight anyone. I agree it is pretty dumb not taking the UFC's deal (if it is what has been reported), but its not because he is afraid of Lesnar. The dude fought (and dismantled) a prime Cro Cop who was pretty much the scariest mofo ever.

[MetSox17]

I agree that he might not be scared of anyone in the world, but he's being a little ***** during these negotiations. That idiot manager of his is gonna be his downfall.

[Rob S]

Honestly, I think this is mostly his manager and the fact that Fedor still is contracted for 3 more fight with him/M-1. In a sense, he is tied to him. I mean, if Fedor laid down the law, Vadim would probably fold, but on the off chance he didnt, where does Fedor go from there after pissing off the guy he is contracted too? It is a bit of a messier situation than it appears. Now, I still think Fedor should just demand the deal gets done, but its not totally cut and dry.

[josh07039]

Honestly, I think this is mostly his manager and the fact that Fedor still is contracted for 3 more fight with him/M-1. In a sense, he is tied to him. I mean, if Fedor laid down the law, Vadim would probably fold, but on the off chance he didnt, where does Fedor go from there after pissing off the guy he is contracted too? It is a bit of a messier situation than it appears. Now, I still think Fedor should just demand the deal gets done, but its not totally cut and dry.
I disagree that it is mostly the manager. Fedor is very far from blameless. He continually adds fuel to the fire like saying that the UFC was trying to **** him. Also, he continually says that he trusts Vadim fully and all kinds of stuff like that. If Fedor didn't fully agree with Vadim, contract or no, he wouldn't say things that support Vadim to such an extent. If he really wanted to get into the UFC, he would say so.

Just one other fact, Fedor is a part owner of M-1, possibly as high as a 20% stake. So, its not like he is just a fighter, he is management. Also, for all the stuff he says about not being the greatest ever or even the top heavyweight, he has to know the position he is in in terms of applying pressure to M-1. He would have to be an absolute moron to not know that he is their meal ticket.

[Rob S]

****!

http://sherdog.com/news/news/fedor-signs-with-strikeforce-18883

[MetSox17]

I hope he loses to a scrub, for being a money hungry idiot. I guess Strikeforce was the only one willing to part with half their profits. Whatever, i hope he rots away against mediocre competition for the rest of his career. **** that guy.

[josh07039]

Strikeforce does have a legitimate heavyweight division. No its not as deep as the UFC, but Rogers, Overeem, Werdum will keep Fedor busy for around a year and a half. I know he's very green, but in about two years, Roger Gracie may have some wins under his belt and they can promote him as deserving competition. Additionally, I know everyone is down on them, but Arlovski and Sylvia are dirt cheap after embarrassing defeats and both can still put on some good fights. Sylvia went from fighting Fedor to being seen as a can, if he's motivated, I still think he can be a good heavyweight. If Arlovski learns to move his head, he can be decent too. If Strikeforce remains fiscally responsible and promotes the **** out of Fedor, they have a chance to grow. The big thing will be getting Fedor on a countdown show on showtime and fighting on CBS.

Strikeforce has always been a smart promotion in terms of not going crazy with money and staying under the UFC's radar. This is no longer the case. I'm sure Dana is going to start talking trash and counter promoting strikeforce events. It will be interesting to see if this is the beginning of the end or the moment we can look at that Strikeforce became a substantial secondary promotion.

All this said, I wanted Fedor v. Brock badly, but having him fight strikeforce's heavyweights in America isn't an awful consolation prize. Him in the UFC would've been ******* awesome though.

[Rob S]

Yeah I agree, Strikeforce is not horrendous, but Fedor - Brock is the dream.

I cant say I blame the guy tho unless the money was close. If I was in a career like fighting I would be out for the money because God know how much longer you have left.

[Ravens1991]

since he is locked up w/ a M-1 deal he might not have had a choice to go into UFC it is all up to the co-promoter douche

[MaxV]

This blows.

Well, I hope they resume their negotiations in a year or so.

Unless that bridge is already burnt.

[Rob S]

Dana is furious.......he called Fedor "a ******* joke" and said he will be "fighting nobodies for no money."

[josh07039]

This blows.

Well, I hope they resume their negotiations in a year or so.

Unless that bridge is already burnt.Until Fedor is no longer a fighter fans want to see, Dana will always be willing to take him. Dana at his heart will always be a fan first. Look at when he overpaid for Pride when it was almost bankrupt. He would love to see Fedor fight Brock and he really wants to do it for the fans. If Fedor ever becomes a free agent again, and he is still undefeated and Brock is still champ, Dana will jump back into the Fedor pool hard once again.

[ironman4579]

The issue is that Fedor and alot of hardcore MMA fans (and Fedor nuthuggers) overrate his appeal to the average UFC fan (notice I said UFC fan, not MMA fan). The average fan is the same as the average fan of any sport. The vast majority of people that buy PPV's and tickets to UFC events only know the top UFC fighters, and have no clue about anything outside that.

The UFC is the major league's. Every other promotion is the minors. How many NFL fans do you think have a clue who their draft picks are before they get praised or ripped apart by the local radio idiots? I have little doubt that if Fedor ever came to the UFC, his opponent would be the draw for most fans in his first few fights, and not him.

[MaxV]

Well, it depends who his first opponent is. Lesnar, Couture, Mir and Nog are bigger names, but others aren't.

Fedor isn't a big name by any means, but he has garnered enough attention to bring in a pretty decent crowd with him into the fight.

[MetSox17]

Until Fedor is no longer a fighter fans want to see, Dana will always be willing to take him. Dana at his heart will always be a fan first. Look at when he overpaid for Pride when it was almost bankrupt. He would love to see Fedor fight Brock and he really wants to do it for the fans. If Fedor ever becomes a free agent again, and he is still undefeated and Brock is still champ, Dana will jump back into the Fedor pool hard once again.

If that's the case, then he better hope Lesnar is the complete package. Brock is the ONLY heavyweight that can really boost PPV purchases if you pit him against Emilianenko. Anyone else and you're looking for a relatively small draw.

The issue is that Fedor and alot of hardcore MMA fans (and Fedor nuthuggers) overrate his appeal to the average UFC fan (notice I said UFC fan, not MMA fan). The average fan is the same as the average fan of any sport. The vast majority of people that buy PPV's and tickets to UFC events only know the top UFC fighters, and have no clue about anything outside that.

The UFC is the major league's. Every other promotion is the minors. How many NFL fans do you think have a clue who their draft picks are before they get praised or ripped apart by the local radio idiots? I have little doubt that if Fedor ever came to the UFC, his opponent would be the draw for most fans in his first few fights, and not him.

Which is why now was the time to buy Emilianenko. When Lesnar's popularity is rising daily, and Fedor's negotiations are front page news. Now he's gonna go and disappear again for at least a year and a half, if not two, and by then, who knows who's gonna be at the top of the UFC Heavyweight line.

[MaxV]

Fedor vs. Couture, even if it's not for the title, would NOT be a small draw.

[MaxV]

who knows who's gonna be at the top of the UFC Heavyweight line.

I'm calling it now, a year from now we'll be saying:

"Fedor vs. Kimbo, make it happen Dana."




















:)

[MetSox17]

Fedor vs. Couture, even if it's not for the title, would NOT be a small draw.

In two years, Couture will be swinging on a hammock drinking margaritas staring at the Gulf of Mexico.

[ironman4579]

Well, it depends who his first opponent is. Lesnar, Couture, Mir and Nog are bigger names, but others aren't.

Fedor isn't a big name by any means, but he has garnered enough attention to bring in a pretty decent crowd with him into the fight.

You're looking at it throught the lense of someone who is a fan of MMA as a whole, and a fan of Fedor. I guarantee that you and others that post in this thread are the very small minority exception to the rule.

We all post on this site because we are interested in the NFL and the draft, and we want to know everything we can about the most obscure prospect. But we do not represent even a small portion of the NFL's fanbase. I guarantee that most Lions fans had no idea who Brandon Pettigrew was before he was drafted, despite being the top TE in the draft. Alot of Lions fans wanted Tim Tebow for Christ' sake! Next year fans will be calling for Taylor Mays because he plays for a well known, media darling program, while most will have no idea who Eric Berry is, or a very general knowledge.

It's the same thing with MMA. Most of the PPV buys and gate sales are from people that have no or very limited knowledge of anything outside the UFC, and even outside of the top UFC fighters.


Fedor vs. Couture, even if it's not for the title, would NOT be a small draw.

As Metsox said, Couture will be retired before that ever happens. But I'll say that Couture would be by far the main draw for that fight at this point, not Fedor.

[MaxV]

You're looking at it throught the lense of someone who is a fan of MMA as a whole, and a fan of Fedor. I guarantee that you and others that post in this thread are the very small minority exception to the rule.

We all post on this site because we are interested in the NFL and the draft, and we want to know everything we can about the most obscure prospect. But we do not represent even a small portion of the NFL's fanbase. I guarantee that most Lions fans had no idea who Brandon Pettigrew was before he was drafted, despite being the top TE in the draft. Alot of Lions fans wanted Tim Tebow for Christ' sake! Next year fans will be calling for Taylor Mays because he plays for a well known, media darling program, while most will have no idea who Eric Berry is, or a very general knowledge.

It's the same thing with MMA. Most of the PPV buys and gate sales are from people that have no or very limited knowledge of anything outside the UFC, and even outside of the top UFC fighters.

Yeah and I conceded the point that Fedor isn't a HUGE name in the States, but he has ENOUGH of a following to be a good draw.

Like I've said, Lesnar, Couture, Mir and Nog are bigger names, but no one else.

Are you telling me that guys like Heath Herring, Brandon Vera, Cheick Kongo and Cain Velasquez are bigger names at this point? And are bigger draws?

A main event with those guys would generate an enormous amount of PPV buys? Really?

I don't think so.

[josh07039]

Here's the thing about Fedor being a draw. He clearly isn't a signifcant moneymaker in the U.S and may not even be one in Japan anymore, but if the UFC had gotten him, the hype machine would have gone into overdrive to educate the mainstream fans about him. Keep in mind that the UFC owns the pride video library, so they could make all kinds of specials showing his impressive fights. They could do a Fedor top ten fights along with a countdown special. I guarantee you, at the very least, for the Brock fight, Fedor would be part of the draw. The UFC would definitely educate the public to the extent that, at the very least, people would be intrigued at seeing who is the best heavyweight in the world. In the UFC Fedor would probably be a very limited draw, similar to Andreson Silva. No English, no draw.

As for Strikeforce, they are going to have big issues educating the mainstream. They will need to create some special to hype him up, but that hasn't been their M.O. in the past.

[ironman4579]

Are you telling me that guys like Heath Herring, Brandon Vera, Cheick Kongo and Cain Velasquez are bigger names at this point? And are bigger draws?

To the average UFC fan? Quite probably yes.



A main event with those guys would generate an enormous amount of PPV buys? Really?

I don't think so.


Vera's really a LHW now anyway, but whatever. A main event with say, Herring VS Kongo would not draw, no. But a main event with Lesnar VS Kongo would probably only draw slightly less that a Lesnar VS Fedor fight at this point. Note that I said at "at this point" ie. coming into the UFC cold.

Take the Fedor blinders off for a minute. The average fan of the UFC, and the people that are the vast majority of the PPV buys and gate sales, have little to no knowledge of anything outside of the UFC, be it fighters or organizations.

[MetSox17]

Here's the thing about Fedor being a draw. He clearly isn't a signifcant moneymaker in the U.S and may not even be one in Japan anymore, but if the UFC had gotten him, the hype machine would have gone into overdrive to educate the mainstream fans about him. Keep in mind that the UFC owns the pride video library, so they could make all kinds of specials showing his impressive fights. They could do a Fedor top ten fights along with a countdown special. I guarantee you, at the very least, for the Brock fight, Fedor would be part of the draw. The UFC would definitely educate the public to the extent that, at the very least, people would be intrigued at seeing who is the best heavyweight in the world. In the UFC Fedor would probably be a very limited draw, similar to Andreson Silva. No English, no draw.

As for Strikeforce, they are going to have big issues educating the mainstream. They will need to create some special to hype him up, but that hasn't been their M.O. in the past.

I agree wholeheartedly. And the thing with the UFC is, they have the power of Spike TV. What the hell does Strikeforce have? 30 minute NBC spots at 4 in the morning? They pass UFC Unleashed re-runs all the damn time, they would do the same with Fedor, to get interest in him. He could have an enormous career in the UFC, but he refused over greed. In the long run he would have made so much more with Dana White than what he'll make with their share of profits from Strikeforce.

[ironman4579]

Here's the thing about Fedor being a draw. He clearly isn't a signifcant moneymaker in the U.S and may not even be one in Japan anymore, but if the UFC had gotten him, the hype machine would have gone into overdrive to educate the mainstream fans about him. Keep in mind that the UFC owns the pride video library, so they could make all kinds of specials showing his impressive fights. They could do a Fedor top ten fights along with a countdown special. I guarantee you, at the very least, for the Brock fight, Fedor would be part of the draw. The UFC would definitely educate the public to the extent that, at the very least, people would be intrigued at seeing who is the best heavyweight in the world. In the UFC Fedor would probably be a very limited draw, similar to Andreson Silva. No English, no draw.

As for Strikeforce, they are going to have big issues educating the mainstream. They will need to create some special to hype him up, but that hasn't been their M.O. in the past.

This I agree with, although the bolded portion somewhat contradicts everything else. It's actually a good point though. Silva is considered one of the top 3 pound for pound fighters in the world right now. Yet, when he fought for the title after only one fight, how many UFC fans thought it was crazy and Franklin was going to kill him? It's because almost no one knew who he was. Again, the average fan likely has no idea who Fedor is.

EDIT:My point has been lost here and I'm trying to argue that Fedor isn't a draw when that wasn't my original point. My point was that people think Fedor can just go wherever he wants and make it a good promotion. But the UFC is the major leagues at this point. If you want to be the best fighter and make the big money, you need to get in the biggest league. Certainly he could have a great career and be a huge draw in the UFC. But he has to actually get there instead of settling for the minor promotions so he can make more short term money and stay loyal to someone who clearly doesn't have his best interests at heart.

[josh07039]

This I agree with, although the bolded portion somewhat contradicts everything else. It's actually a good point though. Silva is considered one of the top 3 pound for pound fighters in the world right now. Yet, when he fought for the title after only one fight, how many UFC fans thought it was crazy and Franklin was going to kill him? It's because almost no one knew who he was. Again, the average fan likely has no idea who Fedor is.

EDIT:My point has been lost here and I'm trying to argue that Fedor isn't a draw when that wasn't my original point. My point was that people think Fedor can just go wherever he wants and make it a good promotion. But the UFC is the major leagues at this point. If you want to be the best fighter and make the big money, you need to get in the biggest league. Certainly he could have a great career and be a huge draw in the UFC. But he has to actually get there instead of settling for the minor promotions so he can make more short term money and stay loyal to someone who clearly doesn't have his best interests at heart.It does come off a bit contradictory, but what I meant was that if Fedor were to fight Brock, the UFC would be able to hype him up to the extent where people would pay for the whole package of two champions meeting, rather than Brock carrying the ppv buys. My point was that Fedor against Brock would appeal to the mainstream not just because of Brock's popularity.

In the future, even if he were to beat Brock, Fedor probably wouldn't be able to carry a card on his own.

I hope Strikeforce doesnt make the same mistake as Bodog/Affliction, and think they can just throw Fedor out there and get a crazy amount of buys.

[MaxV]

To the average UFC fan? Quite probably yes.

Ok, once again, I concede that Fedor isn't a huge name, but you make it sound like NO ONE knows him. That's a ridiculous statement.

No, Fedor can't carry a PPV on his back, but he would bring more people then Herring and Kongo. A LOT MORE.

I mean, ok, Fedor wasn't big enough to save Affliction, but he was the main draw of the company that featured former UFC champs.

Kongo and Herring would've done better? Really?

Yeeeeeaaaaah, suuuuuurrrrrrre.

[ironman4579]

Ok, once again, I concede that Fedor isn't a huge name, but you make it sound like NO ONE knows him. That's a ridiculous statement.

No, Fedor can't carry a PPV on his back, but he would bring more people then Herring and Kongo. A LOT MORE.

I mean, ok, Fedor wasn't big enough to save Affliction, but he was the main draw of the company that featured former UFC champs.

Kongo and Herring would've done better? Really?

Yeeeeeaaaaah, suuuuuurrrrrrre.

Note that you didn't quote the portion of my post that said Lesnar VS Kongo would do less than Lesnar VS Fedor, or that two of the smaller names as a main event would not draw more than a Fedor fight. If you want to make a point, at least quote my whole point and acknowledge that I agreed with a point you made.

And I don't in any way make the point that NO ONE knows Fedor. Plenty of people that are actually true MMA fans know him. But that average fan that only knows the UFC does not, or at least not enough to buy a $50 PPV on name recognition alone.

[MetSox17]

Ok, once again, I concede that Fedor isn't a huge name, but you make it sound like NO ONE knows him. That's a ridiculous statement.

No, Fedor can't carry a PPV on his back, but he would bring more people then Herring and Kongo. A LOT MORE.

I mean, ok, Fedor wasn't big enough to save Affliction, but he was the main draw of the company that featured former UFC champs.

Kongo and Herring would've done better? Really?

Yeeeeeaaaaah, suuuuuurrrrrrre.

I actually agree, that Herring/Kongo vs. Lesnar, wouldn't be that far off in PPV buys, everything constant right now, than Fedor vs. Lesnar.

Ironman explained it perfectly. The people that buy PPVs are not the same guys that are here posting on this thread, or follow news related to events. Hell, most of us just watch the fights online. The average idiot thinks the only way to see teh ufcz is to buy the PPV. I know a lot of people like this. I've never bought a single fight in my life, and i know/follow UFC more than any of my friends.

[El Peefs?????]

Cro Cop had many less MMA fights than Fedor and had never fought in the US when he signed with the UFC. He fought a no name and it was still a big draw. Look at Rampage, he had one fight in the UFC before he main evented the biggest drawing card, at the time, in MMA PPV history.

When you get an undefeated HW with as much hype as Fedor has, its going to draw viewers. I bet a decent amount of casual MMA fans have heard the name 'Fedor' without really knowing who he is, or his whole deal. When Joe Rogan and UFC commercials are talking about 'the Undefeated best HW in MMA history' against whoever is UFC HW champ at the time.... you don't think that is going to pique more casual fans interests? Really?

[MetSox17]

First off, using Rampage as an example is ridiculous. They're two completely different personalities, and the charisma and showmanship that Rampage has is what garnered such unique interest in fans.

Fedor is a big white Russian that doesn't speak English (i think). He isn't an in your face, talk trash to you guy.

[El Peefs?????]

Cro Cop is a big white (something wrong with this by the way? you listed it among Fedor's weaknesses) Croatian who likes to speak as little as possible. He was fighting Eddie Gonzalez and was a draw. Youre undervaluing word of mouth quite a bit.

By the way, what is considered a casual MMA fan these days? I sure didnt notice the majority of you posting on this thread the first hundred pages :)

[comahan]

Fedor choking out a broomstick in the Main Event would draw.

[El Peefs?????]

Fedor choking out a broomstick in the Main Event would draw.

He could choke his own broomstick and I would still watch.

Wait.. what?

[Rob S]

Fedor would draw and your crazy if you dont think he would imo. If he wouldnt the UFC wouldnt have offered him such a crazy deal if what Dana says is true. It just wouldnt add up, soory I dont but Fedor not being a draw.

What sucks is that I really dont know quite how long Fedor has left. 1.5 years from now with 3 or 4 more fight under his belt who knows if he will be depleted or not.

[ironman4579]

Cro Cop is a big white (something wrong with this by the way? you listed it among Fedor's weaknesses) Croatian who likes to speak as little as possible. He was fighting Eddie Gonzalez and was a draw. Youre undervaluing word of mouth quite a bit.

By the way, what is considered a casual MMA fan these days? I sure didnt notice the majority of you posting on this thread the first hundred pages :)

I personally think the reason Cro Cop was a draw was the hype of his kicks. I know, stupid, but seriously. How many people do you think bought PPV's just in hopes of seeing a famous Cro Cop head kick? That and of course the fact that he was absolutely hyped prior to his fights. It' s not like he came in, the UFC and Spike and whoever never said a word about him, and then he drew.

Cro Cop, Rampage etc. drew because the UFC hyped these guys before their fights. My point is not that Fedor wouldn't draw with a month or so of hype on Spike TV. My point is that right now, coming in cold with no hype other than word of mouth, I really don't believe he'd draw as much as people think.

Anyway, it's kind of a pointless debate at this point. Fedor is not coming to the UFC, and honestly might never come to the UFC.

[Rob S]

If Fedor came to the UFC and they were paying him a ton of cash, the hype machine would be in full swing. Moreso even than CroCop and Rampage. The UFC could hype up anyone to the masses, Fedor would be easy.

[josh07039]

If Fedor came to the UFC and they were paying him a ton of cash, the hype machine would be in full swing. Moreso even than CroCop and Rampage. The UFC could hype up anyone to the masses, Fedor would be easy.I can just picture Joe Rogan talking about Fedor on a spike special with his eyes bulging.

"This guy is like a robot created for fighting, he shows no emotion or pain."
"He trains in the mountains somewhere in Russia. It's like Rocky IV."
"In his years in Pride, this guy was an unstoppable force, just obliterating some of the best heavyweights of all time."

[ironman4579]

Hah, that was funny. They just showed BJ Penn doing the same pool jump as Jarron Gilbert on the UFC 101 Countdown show.


EDIT: I do have to say though, I've heard all this from BJ's camp before. His conditioning is always "much improved" or "world's better than it was," and then he gasses after 2 or 3 rounds.

[Rob S]

eh...........it was better at all his fights at 155........tbh he has looked like a flat out beast since changing classes with the exception of GSP of course. And, who wouldnt get tired having to hold off GSP from the bottom for 5 minute rounds? BJ's cardio is fine so long as he is in shape, which you can always see with BJ. Some fighters are not like that, BJ is tho. If he looks trim and muscular, he is fine, if he looks pudgy (as he did for most of his stint at 170) it is a good bet he gasses.

[YAYareaRB]

Hah, that was funny. They just showed BJ Penn doing the same pool jump as Jarron Gilbert on the UFC 101 Countdown show.


EDIT: I do have to say though, I've heard all this from BJ's camp before. His conditioning is always "much improved" or "world's better than it was," and then he gasses after 2 or 3 rounds.

Since his conditioning is ****** to begin with, it's easy to be a world's better than it was lol

[MetSox17]

eh...........it was better at all his fights at 155........tbh he has looked like a flat out beast since changing classes with the exception of GSP of course. And, who wouldnt get tired having to hold off GSP from the bottom for 5 minute rounds? BJ's cardio is fine so long as he is in shape, which you can always see with BJ. Some fighters are not like that, BJ is tho. If he looks trim and muscular, he is fine, if he looks pudgy (as he did for most of his stint at 170) it is a good bet he gasses.

Could it be that there's just nothing to compete with him at 155? That's why he looks so "amazing" and "in condition?"

[josh07039]

Florian best chance is to be smart, make Penn work, and survive into later rounds. Penn's cardio is obviously better at 155 because he doesn't carry extra weight, but his cardio is still not close to Florian's level unless his new training is actually legit, unlike every other time he has talked about being in great condition.

[Rob S]

Could it be that there's just nothing to compete with him at 155? That's why he looks so "amazing" and "in condition?"

I guess, but just look at the guy and its obvious. At 170, he usually looks pudgy and like your average guy. At 155 he is pretty lean and cut. Maybe being so much better than other 155ers helps, but he just looks healthier at 155. I think thats obvious.

[TheGM]

The question is whether Florian can make it deep enough to make BJ's cardio an issue. Jens Pulver and Matt Hughes were both saved by the bell while BJ had them in a submission. In both those fights BJ gassed and got whipped in the later rounds. If kenny can take it to four rounds he will eat BJ up.

[Rob S]

Unless he stopped training a shard after the GSP fight, BJ's cardio wont be a big issue unless Kenny pushes an insane pace. It just wont.

[Wootylicous]

I'm gonna ahead and say florian and griffin! i love blind predictions :P

[El Peefs?????]

I don't think working in KenFlo's guard for most of the fight is going to gas BJ anyway.

[Saints 4 Lyfe]

hope forrest wins

[MetSox17]

I guess, but just look at the guy and its obvious. At 170, he usually looks pudgy and like your average guy. At 155 he is pretty lean and cut. Maybe being so much better than other 155ers helps, but he just looks healthier at 155. I think thats obvious.

See, i call ******** on that. When he fights at 155 that means he has to cut the weight he normally walks around at. Meaning you dehydrate your body, and are never completely 100% fight time. On top of that, he probably comes in weighing closer to 170 than to 155 on fight night.

I don't get this "leaner" look junk, because if he fights at 170, it's not like he comes into the ring at 185.

To me, it's no surprise that BJ looks like a stud when he fights scrubs like Joe Daddy and a past his prime Jens Pulver, then looks like trash against Hughes and St. Pierre.

[Rob S]

See, i call ******** on that. When he fights at 155 that means he has to cut the weight he normally walks around at. Meaning you dehydrate your body, and are never completely 100% fight time. On top of that, he probably comes in weighing closer to 170 than to 155 on fight night.

I don't get this "leaner" look junk, because if he fights at 170, it's not like he comes into the ring at 185.

To me, it's no surprise that BJ looks like a stud when he fights scrubs like Joe Daddy and a past his prime Jens Pulver, then looks like trash against Hughes and St. Pierre.

huh? First off, he never looked dry, so thats not an issue. And, yeah, he has to cut the weight, but that alone will make you better conditioned wont it. Try running with a 15 lb weighted vest. Also, if you cant see the difference in his body composition from LW to WW you are crazy.

BTW, Sherk was in dominating form until he met BJ and BJ destroyed him. And of course BJ isnt going to look amazing vs Hughes and GSP at 170. First off it isnt his ideal weight class and second off, they were both (GSP and BJ) probably top 5 p4p at the time of the fight (Hughes was for sure). They were pick em fights and the 1st vs GSP was close, he was doing fine in the Hughes fight until he gassed, and GSP just showed his class with the last fight.

[Ravens1991]

I am calling it right now Johnny Hendricks beat Amir tomorrow night!!!!!

[E-Man]

Man my computer has been acting up lately. I've missed a ton of stuff. I never expected Fedor to sign with Strikeforce. Looks like we'll finally see him in the cage after all.

I can't remember all of the UFC 01 card, but my comp is acting too slow so I'll just say that I have B.J. and Anderson winning tonight.

[McGahee]

Any live streams?

[ChezPower4]

Any live streams?

I never have problems finding them. I always find one after about 10-15 min of searching. If I find one I'll PM you the link.

[Wootylicous]

War Florian!

[McGahee]

I never have problems finding them. I always find one after about 10-15 min of searching. If I find one I'll PM you the link.

Thanks dude

[MetSox17]

I never have problems finding them. I always find one after about 10-15 min of searching. If I find one I'll PM you the link.

Me too please. Is JustinTv not working?

[A Perfect Score]

War Florian!

While I dont expect it, I would love to see him kick the **** out of Penn. I love me some Kenflo.

[A Perfect Score]

if anyone finds a stream, Id appreciate the PM.