MMA Discussion Thread - SPOILERS!

[fenikz]

there is a very simple reason why no one has been a test for JDS

http://i40.tinypic.com/dnbq7c.jpg

[SeanTaylorRIP]

That elbow was sick. Jones seems to throw elbows with such force. Reminds me of Tito back in his hey day.

JDS was ******* quick tonight. What really impressed me was his ability to get back to his feet after getting taken down. I would like to see him work on the ground more, but he has a forte and sticks to it. I think he's the next in line for a shot after Cain. I'd rather see them fight someone else to build to a future matchu-up, but I guess it makes sense to have them fight now.

Unfortunately the heavyweight division isnt really deep like they kept saying last night. There are very few options. If they don't want to put him against Cain right now the only other option may be fightint the loser of Carwin/Mir.

[Rosebud]

I think JDS fights the loser of Carwin/Mir next while Jones will take on Lil nog or Forrest depending on how that fight works out. Both seem like awesome fights although I think JDS will devour Carwin/Mir, he's just too fast and powerful and given that he's from the noguera group I have to awesome he knows enough about the ground game to keep a fight on its feet. Bones has the talent to challenge for a title, the question is is he ready for one, I think he still needs 2 or 3 more wins but if he takes on the Lil nog/Griffin and wins that'll make him a legit contender.

[josh07039]

Unfortunately the heavyweight division isnt really deep like they kept saying last night. There are very few options. If they don't want to put him against Cain right now the only other option may be fightint the loser of Carwin/Mir.I think the HW division actually is pretty deep. I mean think about it, Lesnar is a champ with one title defense so he has by no means cleaned out the division. Then you have to keep in mind that you have JDS, Cain, Mir, and Carwin all vying for a title sot. Having four legit contenders is not bad at all. It will take a while for those four and Lesnar work everything out. By that time there should be a new contender or two. I mean, there aren't many divisions that can say there are 4 guys that you would want to see fighting for the belt.
LHW-deepest division/newish champ
MW-Anderson has cleaned the division out and there aren't many legit contenders
WW-GSP has killed everyone
LW-BJ has killed everyone but if he moves to WW permanently then things should get interesting

With the HW division, I would love to see Cain and JDS fight but I can't see Dana having either one lose. I assume that one of them will fight the loser of Mir-Carwin.

[zachsaints52]

Cains going to rape.

[garrard9]

I don't watch too much MMA but Jon Jones' brother Art and Chandler, both play football at Syracuse. Art is prolly a 2nd rounder this year and Chandler has the look of a future 1st Big East DE. I've heard Jon is a rising star. Is that true?

[Rob S]

I think Cain utterly dominates JDS with his wrestling.

[Rob S]

I don't watch too much MMA but Jon Jones' brother Art and Chandler, both play football at Syracuse. Art is prolly a 2nd rounder this year and Chandler has the look of a future 1st Big East DE. I've heard Jon is a rising star. Is that true?

Yes indeed, Bones Jones is the man and probably the brightest prospect in the sport.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

It's really scary watching him progress so damn fast. I remember just a year ago I was thinking he was on similar grounds as a prospect as a Ryan Bader, but now IMO Bones is top 10 and has already a fairly complete game while Bader is still one dimensional. Only thing I want to see now is how he works off his back but few LHW contenders can take him down. Taking down Vera twice in the short match is nothing to skip on. Vera basically stuffed Randy from taking him down for 3 rounds. His GnP is sick. I also like how he showed he doesn't get rattled when Vera upkicked him on the ground. As funny as it sounds I think his biggest threat is someone who is a more technical striker. I think he would have ease with Forest, but Nog could provide him some trouble with his boxing but Jones reach advantage is massive though. He could possibly fight the loser of Rampage and Rashad. Of course though that would only happen if Rampage was the one who lost.

[djp]

I think we will see Bones vs Forrest next personally.

[djp]

I'm still stinging over the loss of Vitor vs Silva.. we would have seen a spectacular knockout in that one. I am in fear that Silva doesn't KO Maia early and we see another Thales Leites/Silva style of fight.

[Ward]

I think we will see Bones vs Forrest next personally.

I would like to see this assuming it doesn't end like Griffin's bout with Silva did. I think Jones has a lot of physical similarities to Silva w/ the tremendous reach and unorthodox striking and might destroy Griffin before the fight got interesting. However, if Griffin shows up ready to brawl and can take Jones into the third round, I'd love this fight whoever wins. Here's what I'd like to see:

Fights already set
UFC 113 May 8 - Machida vs Rua
UFC 114 May 29 - Jackson vs Evans
UFC 114 May 29 - Griffin vs Lil Nog


Fights I'd like to see after
Winner of Machida/Rua vs Winner of Jackson/Evans
Winner of Griffin/Nogueira vs Jones OR
Loser of Machida/Rua vs Jones

The biggest problem with Jones' next fight is the time delay. Jones just fought a <1 round fight on March 21. The fighters we might want to see him fight are all fighting in May. Are they going to let Jones wait 4-5 months just to get him a premier matchup, or are they going to feed him someone sooner? Thiago Silva is a guy who fought in January, and would be ready much sooner than Griffin/Nog/Jackson/Evans. IIRC the UFC typically wants winners to fight winners, so I don't know if Silva is really a viable option or not. I would like to see that fight however. Someone else throw out an idea. WHAT IS NEXT FOR BONES?

[ccB]

Jon Jones v Luiz Banha Cane makes sense, better than shelving him until Nog/Forrest are healed up and ready to go again.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Jon Jones v Luiz Banha Cane makes sense, better than shelving him until Nog/Forrest are healed up and ready to go again.

I thought I read somewhere a while ago that he's also fighting in may on an undercard. Also not sure you want to put your top prospect against a guy who is dangerous but just came off getting KTFO. I think Jones gets a softie in between to wait for one of these guys fighting in May. There is always Keith Jardine which is a nice win in terms of name recognition but an easy out.

[ccB]

I thought I read somewhere a while ago that he's also fighting in may on an undercard. Also not sure you want to put your top prospect against a guy who is dangerous but just came off getting KTFO. I think Jones gets a softie in between to wait for one of these guys fighting in May. There is always Keith Jardine which is a nice win in terms of name recognition but an easy out.

I just checked and Cane is slated to fight Cyrille "The Snake" Diabate in May.


I think Jones has passed the prospect stage and is going to get big fights without the protection now. I think the UFC could go a couple different directons...

They could put Jones against Thiago Silva, who disspite losing his last fight is a legit top 10 LHW in the UFC. It's always dangerous putting a prospect against a guy coming off a loss, because if they lose you don't gain much in return. But this could be a very exciting match up, though I think Jones would rape with Greco.

Or they could put him against Ryan Bader. Bader and Jones are at a similar place in their careers, both coming off wins against former contenders turned 205 lb gatekeepers in Vera and Jardine. This is probably the safest fight for the UFC to schedule because regardless who wins and who losses a young star will emerge, and after this fight there would be a plethora of available match ups, winner could face the winner of Griffin/Nogueria for next shot at the title after the winner of Rampage/Rashad. Or they could match the winner up against the loser of Machida/Shogun or Rampage/Rashad, there are all kinds of fun match ups. Plus you know how much Zuffa enjoys pitting two undefeated fighters against each other.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

That would definitely be interesting although I don't see any way Bader wins that fight. Bader might be a better technical wrestler but I don't see him being able to take down Jones over again which is all he can do to win. His striking is still so one dimensional. He has nasty power but basically all he has is a predictable overhand right which he wings. Bader also has trouble finishing fights. Especially in the Erik Schaeffer fight. He started off so strong but faded by the end to the point that if there were 3 more minutes he might have lost the fight. I think Jones striking would be too much for Bader. Bader might extend the match by scoring some takedowns, but I don't think he has enough to just keep Jones down. Baders striking is actually well improved to the point that he can use his wrestling in reverse like Chuck did, just not good enough against a striker like Bones. I think better fight scheduling would be if Phil Davis can win his Abu Dhabi fight in a couple weeks, pitting him up against Bader as a co-main event hyping up the two all american wrestlers. I think their skill level is more on par. I think Bones is just too versatile and complete for Bader.

[josh07039]

I dont think Bader can beat Jones, but It would pose an interesting test for Jones. Bader has more of a chance of putting Jones on his back than pretty much anyone. The only thing we haven't seen Jones do is fight off his back. Granted, Im not sure how much he needs to worry about that considering LHW is the one division that isn't dominated by strong wrestlers. Obviously Bader and Phil Davis are on the rise, but right now, the top 5 guys ,outside of maybe Rashad, wont be able to put Jones on his back or even threaten him.

Jones' progression is going to be very interesting because his learning curve is like no other fighter's. Even though he is 22, he has proven he is ready for a jump up in competition with his dismantling of every opponent put in front of him. It would be easy to say he's only been in the sport for a short time and that he needs to learn more, but maybe its time to see if he is just simply a fighting prodigy who is ready to be a world class fighter after his short time in the sport.

[ccB]

Another scary thing about Jones is a lot of the moves in his arsenal are self taught, and now he's with arguably the best trainer in the game.

[fenikz]

Jones seems to be what everyone thought Sokojou was going to be, he has completely taken advantage of his camp and is improving greatly because of the fighters around him

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Sokodjou has been so depressing to watch. He has a freakish build, heavy ass leg kicks, and elite Judo throws, but damn he has made zero progress on his ground game since starting MMA training. He also still has horrible gameplans and cardio. It is frustrating watching him fight. Hendo will scream things to him to get out of bad positions, and he'll just ignore him. I feel the same way about the progression or lack thereof with Melvin Guillard.

[ccB]

Soko getting KO-ed by Minnowaman = Fail of the century.


My new dream match up:

Johnny Jones v Gegard Mousasi

*messes pants*

[E-Man]

I'd love to see Jones vs. Mousassi, but both guys will probably be MMA gods within 2-3 years, so I'd rather wait for that epic showdown. Let's say it takes a year for Mousassi to go to the UFC, and by that time Jones is a title contender with an even more impressive arsenal. Moussasi beats a top contender while Jones gets the belt, and then we have a huge match for the title. Both guys have an epic showdown, and it destroys the world in a 2012 apocalypse. I'm cool with that happening.

[ccB]

I'd love to see Jones vs. Mousassi, but both guys will probably be MMA gods within 2-3 years, so I'd rather wait for that epic showdown. Let's say it takes a year for Mousassi to go to the UFC, and by that time Jones is a title contender with an even more impressive arsenal. Moussasi beats a top contender while Jones gets the belt, and then we have a huge match for the title. Both guys have an epic showdown, and it destroys the world in a 2012 apocalypse. I'm cool with that happening.

Time is a dream fights worst enemy, see: Couture v Fedor, Yamamoto v Faber etc. I'd rather see it asap as opposed to waiting and having one of their hype trains derail before the match can happen. It's all well wishing on my part anyway because I read Mousasi is about to re-up with Strikeforce for another 7 fights. 7 fights in strikeforce might as well be 7 years.

[Ward]

They could put Jones against Thiago Silva, who disspite losing his last fight is a legit top 10 LHW in the UFC. It's always dangerous putting a prospect against a guy coming off a loss, because if they lose you don't gain much in return. But this could be a very exciting match up, though I think Jones would rape with Greco.

Or they could put him against Ryan Bader. Bader and Jones are at a similar place in their careers, both coming off wins against former contenders turned 205 lb gatekeepers in Vera and Jardine. This is probably the safest fight for the UFC to schedule because regardless who wins and who losses a young star will emerge, and after this fight there would be a plethora of available match ups, winner could face the winner of Griffin/Nogueria for next shot at the title after the winner of Rampage/Rashad. Or they could match the winner up against the loser of Machida/Shogun or Rampage/Rashad, there are all kinds of fun match ups. Plus you know how much Zuffa enjoys pitting two undefeated fighters against each other.

After breaking it down, I think Silva is the best next fight for Jones. Even though Silva lost to Evans, that's basically losing to the #1 contender (if we're putting Machida/Rua together at the title spot). IMO Bader would be a step down for Jones from the Vera fight. Bader's best opponent has been a fading Jardine. Jardine is coming off 3 straight losses (5 out of his last 7), and to put Jones in the same cage as him would just be embarassing.

So if you want to keep amping up the competition for Jones, give him Silva. Silva IMO needs some legitimacy in the division, because his two highest profile fights both ended as losses. His only "big" wins are over Jardine and Alexander. Not exactly a mind-blowing resume. A win for Silva would mean continued relevancy in the LHW division, and a win for Jones confirms that he would belong in the cage against an opponent like Page, Evans, Machida, or Rua.

[BlindSite]

I agree the next set of match ups realistically has to be Thiago or maybe Bader against Jones and JDS vs Brown Pride.

There's not one in LHW who's not either booked or under Jones' ability. Bader will likely neutralise his wrestling, and Thiago is a dangerous enough strike to hurt Jones early, but I think the UFC doesn't want to burn or derail either of these guys too quickly.

The JDS and Velasquez match up will be a good test for both fighters but I'd see JDS knocking out Velasquez because he has a tendency to try and trade rather than wrestle outright and JDS is much much faster and heavier in his hands than nog is at this point.

JDS though working on his Jits with the best in the world, hasn't had his takedown defense legitimately tested, Gonzaga shot once, early and took him down, he got up sure, but what happens in round 2 or 3 when he's not landing that knockout blow and he's facing a wrestler? I suppose it's a moot point being able to knock everyone out so quick, but I can't see him defending the take down against someone like Lesnar or Carwin just yet. He's only 25 despite how old he looks, so he's got a bright future, but anointing him against wrestlers just yet is a little premature.

[Rosebud]

I think Cain utterly dominates JDS with his wrestling.

If he doesn't get himself KTFO standing and trading before he even shoots, still I think JDS should have enough experience getting back to his feet working with the nogueras. To give himself a chance to use his monster hands.

[E-Man]

JDS' takedown defense would definitely be tested by Cain. I'd favor Cain, because there really hasn't been too many times to where we have seen JDS on work on the ground. We know Cain has a high level wrestling background, and he has a pace that could wear out most heavyweights. JDS is the better striker, but Cain's striking is good too.

His hands are quick, he works good combinations, and he's constantly moving so he isn't easy to hit. JDS is the better all around striker than Cain though, so it's not too hard to see him tagging Cain bad on the feet. The two big problems that JDS does for me is his tendency to stick his head out when he throws body shots, and us never seeing him grapple. Cain's got quick hands, so he could make JDS pay if he goes for some body shots. JDS is so quick though, and he seemed to be even faster against Gonzaga. He also was very quick to stay off the ground, so he just may be able to stay on his feet against Cain.

In truth, I love both guys. I want to see them fight, but I want to wait due to the thinness of the heavyweight division. It's not as thin as it used to be back in the Sylvia days, but it's not the 205 division either. Charm City Byrdgang did make a good point about time hurting good match-ups. If we don't get the Cain/JDS match-up now, then we might not get it until it's too late.

[Rob S]

JDS' takedown defense would definitely be tested by Cain. I'd favor Cain, because there really hasn't been too many times to where we have seen JDS on work on the ground. We know Cain has a high level wrestling background, and he has a pace that could wear out most heavyweights. JDS is the better striker, but Cain's striking is good too.

His hands are quick, he works good combinations, and he's constantly moving so he isn't easy to hit. JDS is the better all around striker than Cain though, so it's not too hard to see him tagging Cain bad on the feet. The two big problems that JDS does for me is his tendency to stick his head out when he throws body shots, and us never seeing him grapple. Cain's got quick hands, so he could make JDS pay if he goes for some body shots. JDS is so quick though, and he seemed to be even faster against Gonzaga. He also was very quick to stay off the ground, so he just may be able to stay on his feet against Cain.

In truth, I love both guys. I want to see them fight, but I want to wait due to the thinness of the heavyweight division. It's not as thin as it used to be back in the Sylvia days, but it's not the 205 division either. Charm City Byrdgang did make a good point about time hurting good match-ups. If we don't get the Cain/JDS match-up now, then we might not get it until it's too late.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see it too.....great matchup. I have no doubt JDS could knock him absolutely senseless. That said, how many times have we seen a dominant wrestler crush a dominant striker in a matchup we though was close. If Cain decides to trade and test his striking, I think we will have a fight on out hands. If he does the smart thing and takes him down, I honestly think it a pretty easy night's work for him save for the time at the beginning of every round when it starts standing. If Cain fights the right fight, I really don't see him losing.

[Rosebud]

I'd like to see JDS on the ground before I comment, just because we've never seen him on the ground doesn't mean he'll let Cain push him around, we never see Machida on the ground yet he's a great at it. For all we know JDS is just as good as the noguera's on the ground, he just knows that his hands and highlight reel KOs are what'll build his hype.

[Ravens1991]

Matt Hammil VS. Jardine confirmed. If Jardine gets KO'd he is probably out of the UFC for his personal safety.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Matt Hammil VS. Jardine confirmed. If Jardine gets KO'd he is probably out of the UFC for his personal safety.

Either Jardine Ko's Hammil or Hammil gets the decision with GnP. I still wouldn't trust Hammil's stand up against Jardine, at some point they will have to exchange and Jardine will likely get the better of that. I was hoping for a Jardine/Bonnar matchup. BTW it sucks but Alves pulled out of this saturday's card against Fitch. Would have loved to see Fitch go against an elite striker like that. Ben Saunders is replacing Alves. Saunders is a beast, but this has potential to be another snooze fest Fitch fight. Fitch is a top 5 WW no doubt but I do understand why he's usually on the undercard, his fights are so boring.

[Ravens1991]

Hammil hits hard, he has the ability to KO Jardine. But in a 3 round kickboxing match Jardine would win.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I guess it doesn't matter against a guy like Jardine, but Hammil is so damn slow. His kicks are almost in slow motion. He's a tough SOB though. I was shocked how Bones took him down and kept him down so easily.

[The_Dude]

I am looking for a website to stream the fights tonight.

I am quite the re-tard when it comes to these things, and I know you guys could help me out with this.

Thanks

[josh07039]

Im really excited for tonight. This will be my first and probably the only UFC event I will be going to for the foreseeable future. Im really psyched for Mir Carwin. If Mire loses, I advise you all to look very closely at the screen for the guy jumping to his death at the Prudential center.

[SwagU]

Big fight for Mir, since Carwin is a big strong guy similar to Brock. This match will really tell us if Mir is ready to face Brock, and deal with his brute strength. Apparently though Mir has a new weight training regiment, and is in the best shape of his life. Pulling for Mir tonight, always liked him, and wan't him to face Brock and kick his ass.

[fenikz]

Mir has put on like 30 pounds or something, it will be interesting to see how it affects his stamina and mobility, not every is made to carry that kind of weight like Lesnar

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Mir has put on like 30 pounds or something, it will be interesting to see how it affects his stamina and mobility, not every is made to carry that kind of weight like Lesnar

Maybe 30 pounds since the Lesnar fight, but he was already a great looking 265 against Kongo.

[fenikz]

when ever someone gets one, link me

[bored of education]

same here please i love you all

[The_Dude]

Prowler suggested justin.tv but that it said that the content was removed...

[LTgiants]

i am also going 2 need a link + rep for who ever helps me.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

WOW. If anyone is watching the prelims on Spike, wow Diaz looked amazing with his first fight at 185. Markham is no slouch either.

[The_Dude]

nate diaz is a badass.

any luck finding a link anyone? i can't find ****...

[MidwayMonster31]

Can someone PM me with a link? This might take a while.

[FuzzyGopher]

Check your pms

[OSUGiants17]

pm me one please

[djp]

Please send me link +rep near 1,000 points

[UKfan]

Love getting the UFC for free live here in the UK, even if it is 3am here!

Some cool walkout songs just now, Miller's was perfect.

[FuzzyGopher]

That body triangle with the arm in is soooo sick.

[OSUGiants17]

**** I can't watch it

[UKfan]

That body triangle with the arm in is soooo sick.

Definitely, think first time I have seen it, only other times I remember an arm being taken out of play was in the crucifix

[FuzzyGopher]

Definitely, think first time I have seen it, only other times I remember an arm being taken out of play was in the crucifix

And whatever it was Lesnar did to Mir.

[fenikz]

And whatever it was Lesnar did to Mir.

rape i believe is the legal term

[The_Dude]

arghh... can't get it going, even with fuzzy's link.

help, anyone?

[UKfan]

arghh... can't get it going, even with fuzzy's link.

help, anyone?

Move to England?

[FuzzyGopher]

Lol, ref is horrible.

[UKfan]

Miragliotta is SUCH a bad referee, the crowd boo so you stand the guys up, even though the top guy is working and clearly kicking ass? Rogan is right, meathead factor at its finest!

(not naming names as dont want to spoil)

[The_Dude]

finally got it!!!! yahoo!

[FuzzyGopher]

You didn't miss anything in the last fight, it was a snoozer.

[MetSox17]

Can someone help a brotha out?

[UKfan]

Nice walk in music for Carwin, pretty apt given his penchant for Rd 1 wins...

[MetSox17]

Thanks guys!

[The_Dude]

i showed up just in time.

I hope that mir gets his ass kicked

[FuzzyGopher]

Mir looked beastly at weigh ins. We'll see if the extra size helps him.

[UKfan]

I'm rooting for Mir, but then I love the jits guys from way back. Also think it is pretty cool how he has come back from the bike injuries and rededicated himself

[LTgiants]

Carwin Ftw!

[UKfan]

Go Murrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[UKfan]

Miragliotta needs to stop reacting to boos from the crowd, I agree with Rogan

[FuzzyGopher]

That is the worst ref job I have ever seen,

[The_Dude]

carwin v brock will be epic

[SwagU]

Wow Carwin just exploded on Mir.

[UKfan]

I would not want to be that back of that mans head, it got pounded!

[MetSox17]

Damn Mir got taken like a *****.

[fenikz]

wow please fire Miragliotta please, he literally is going to get someone killed and then the ufc will have that on their hands

[FuzzyGopher]

They keep calling Carwin huge, but Lesnar is a god damn giant.

[LTgiants]

I hope josh07039 didn't go through with his jump of death

[UKfan]

Ah man, they showed that damn leglock again *shudders* Palhares is a beast, but man!

[MetSox17]

Oh hell that leg-lock was dirty. What part of "let him go" did he not understand?

[FuzzyGopher]

Can't wait for GSP's entrance, they are always awesome.

[fenikz]

french rap for the loss

Oh hell that leg-lock was dirty. What part of "let him go" did he not understand?

the part where he doesn't speak english

[UKfan]

Despite being from a town 30 mins from Hardy's, I REALLY hope GSP KTFO him

[SwagU]

Goona be a sick fight between Carwin and Lesnar. Lesnar is goona have a tough time with Carwin, It is almost like he is fighting himself. Though I think Carwin could knock Lesnar out.

[FuzzyGopher]

I was starting the like Hardy a little and now I remember why I hated him so much.

[MetSox17]

the part where he doesn't speak english

I'm sure tapping on the leg and a referee pulling your arms off of the guy is universal for let him the **** go.

[Rosebud]

I'm sure tapping on the leg and a referee pulling your arms off of the guy is universal for let him the **** go.

In some cultures that's actually the signal for stop rubbing your dick on my leg...the more you know...

[The_Dude]

God, Bruce Buffer is such a tool.

[UKfan]

Man I am hyper, its 5am here and this is what I have been waiting for, WAR GSP!!

[OSUGiants17]

my 2 fave fighters, idk who I want to win, leaning towards GSP

[FuzzyGopher]

How did he not tap.

[OSUGiants17]

I love Hardy's additude, he never gives up, and finds a way to win. But GSP is the ******* man

[The_Dude]

Wow... can't believe that Hardy got out of that!

[OSUGiants17]

How did he not tap.

cause he always finds a way to win

[MetSox17]

Complete ownage.

GSP had no bridge in that armbar though.

[OSUGiants17]

solid fight so far after 2

[OSUGiants17]

as long as this fight doesn't go to decission, I'm happy

[OSUGiants17]

his takedowns are nasty.

You can start every round standing up with GSP, but in the end, you'll be laying down on the mat with the greatest welterweight in the UFC hovering over you.

[FuzzyGopher]

Pure rape for GSP so far.

[MetSox17]

I love watching GSP dominate like this. So fun to watch.

[slightlyaraiderfan]

Gsp is such a boring fighter now.

[OSUGiants17]

fffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

my feed froze

[Bengals78]

mine too
:( :(

[FuzzyGopher]

Hardy is a straight bad ass.

[fenikz]

hardy has zero takedown D, GSP is like 12-12

pretty clear that he didnt deserve a shot before this and its been proven during the fight

[The_Dude]

hardy's pretty damn tough, but GSP dominated him from start to finish

[OSUGiants17]

so fight over?

[FuzzyGopher]

The look on GSP's face during those sub attempt is hilarious.

[SwagU]

Well GSP just continues to dominate. I was impressed by Hardy though, awesome defense.

[OSUGiants17]

is it over? I'm assuming GSP won by ud

[LTgiants]

na hardy ko him out cold





of course gsp won by ud

[bored of education]

anyone can get their ass kicked!

[MetSox17]

I was impressed by Hardy though, awesome defense.

Did we see the same fight?

[bored of education]

Did we see the same fight?

yeah you might as well have put me out there

i wouldnt tap .. id die first too

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Did we see the same fight?

Hardy Vs. Ben Henderson battle of people who for some reason don't tap.

[Ravens1991]

UFC should stop acting like Carwin is the same size as brock, the guy is probably 5'10 240 not 6'5 265 who cuts a lot of weight.

[SwagU]

Did we see the same fight?

Relax dude submission defense. He improved from what I thought he would be, and got out of some tough jams. Maybe the training with Serra made a difference.

[BlindSite]

UFC should stop acting like Carwin is the same size as brock, the guy is probably 5'10 240 not 6'5 265 who cuts a lot of weight.

He's definitely not the same height or weight as brock, but I think Brock is bigger than 6"3 and walks around much bigger than 265.

[Ravens1991]

yeah Iam pumped for the fight, but Frank Mir is probably on suicide watch right now.

[BlindSite]

I didn't like Mir's strategy at all, he was way too inactive in the clinch and it got him KO'd

[Prowler]

that was an awesome fight after the GSP one. the little ball of muscle vs the giant goofy guy. total lack of technique, plus after watching GSP have his way with Hardy, it was just funny to watch.

[E-Man]

It was great seeing GSP dominate. I just love watching the guy fight, he's an all time legend right in front of our eyes.

I don't hate Mir at all, but I'm glad Carwin won to give us more options. Mir will be back, just hopefully not too deranged and ripping guys arms off.

Hey Josh, I know you went to the event. How fun was it?

[Ward]

Haven't yet watched Hardy vs GSP yet, but I have some pretty strong feelings about Mir-Carwin. Some of the shittiest refereeing I've ever seen in an MMA fight.

1. Breaking up the clinch on the cage because the Affliction wearing retards started to boo.
2. Not penalizing Carwin for blows to the back of the head.
3. Not keeping his fighters reasonably safe. Allowing a guy to take blows to the back of the head while lying prone and motionless on the mat is disgusting.

[josh07039]

Haven't yet watched Hardy vs GSP yet, but I have some pretty strong feelings about Mir-Carwin. Some of the shittiest refereeing I've ever seen in an MMA fight.

1. Breaking up the clinch on the cage because the Affliction wearing retards started to boo.
2. Not penalizing Carwin for blows to the back of the head.
3. Not keeping his fighters reasonably safe. Allowing a guy to take blows to the back of the head while lying prone and motionless on the mat is disgusting.I agree with all of that and it was nonsense. Not all the blows were to the back of the head, but there were enough that it should have been paused.

A couple of other observations on the night.
-The crowd at the Prudential Center was amazing. Tons of energy and was fairly knowledgeable with several exceptions. Unlike some crowds who boo every time it hits the ground, tonight's fans recognized the difference between exciting ground fighting and boring plodding crap.
-One of the big exceptions was the GSP fight. There were a majority of fans who have so bought into the crap the UFC hype machine is putting out that they think anything GSP does is the greatest spectacle ever. The same fans who were booing Fitch for grinding out a decision and sighing at the repeated takedowns were cheering at each of the 50456 takedowns GSP had.
-I'm happy Jim Miller won as a Jersey guy, but Im not so sure he deserved that win. Ill have to rewatch it, but at the time I was sure Bocek had it on boring humping.
-If you didn't see hamman vs. Wallace, I suggest you watch it. Hell of a fight.
-I think referees need to be better educated about the rules and need to be willing to stand up or separate fighters more easily. I understand that improving position takes time, but refs often take way too long before standing guys up.
- I think the Fitch fight when Miragliotta stood it up, he was just giving in to the crowds booing and did so at a time when fitch was still working even moreso than many stretches with GSP laying on top of Hardy.
-I will always respect GSP for his work ethic and athleticism, but at this point I think he is content to win safely. He is so afraid of losing that he just wants to win with the least amount of risk. I understand that is smart for his career and the overall brand he has become, but at some point fans are going to have to turn on him and realize how boring he is.
-Speaking of boring, I love him but Jon Fitch fights are not fun. I think he is, without a doubt the second best WW in the world but I never want to see him fight GSP again. The only way he can improve at this point is by changing camps. It is clear he has gone as far as AKA can take him. He'll never leave, but that is most likely his only shot at ever being able to even compete with GSP.
-The only type of fighter that I think will be able to defeat GSP is a BJJ guy with a dangerous game off his back. Im at the point where I cant see anyone staying off his back against GSP so why not a guy that can finish that Frenchie from his back? Im not sure how his game off his back is(I dont fully remember the Fitch fight, but I remember him getting shut down off the back) but Thiago has more chance of pulling out a miracle submission than the punchers chance of koshcek or daley because they wont be standing long enough.

[fenikz]

you act as if GSP didnt nearly finish that fight 2 times, Hardy wasn't going to tap and i think GSP just lacked the killer instinct to break his arm

[Prowler]

i think GSP didn't realize that he was fighting gumby or stretch armstrong. he would have broken the leg if he would have gotten a hold of it in the final few seconds.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

HW division finally has some major contenders. No way IMO Brock can make it through Carwin, Cain, and JDS. I feel kind of bad for Mir though even though I don't like him. He's stuck, he can beat almost any HW but can't handle the new breed of super strength wrestlers. He might become the new Kongo. Bad thing for him is that it will be killing him not being a title contender while Kongo is happy collecting his checks.

[Ravens1991]

2. Not penalizing Carwin for blows to the back of the head.
3. Not keeping his fighters reasonably safe. Allowing a guy to take blows to the back of the head while lying prone and motionless on the mat is disgusting.

That is true, Carwin got like 6 shots in the back of the head and Mirgliatta didnt stop it. It was a horribly late stoppage. It is very strange that Mirgliatta still has a job he is the worst ref I have ever seen.

[josh07039]

you act as if GSP didnt nearly finish that fight 2 times, Hardy wasn't going to tap and i think GSP just lacked the killer instinct to break his arm I understand he had him deep in submissions twice that would have finished a lot of guys, but my point is that GSP seems to treat fights as a grappling/position battle. He barely tries to damage his opponent. GSP is amazing, he dominates opponents from bell to bell and barely takes damage, but the point is that he just seems so unwilling to potentially put himself in a somewhat dangerous position to go for the finish. I mean, I get being a wrestler and having great takedowns, but he just won't trade at all with anyone. I get that winning is important but the reason people love Liddell and Wanderlei and some of the other more popular fighters is because they are willing to do dangerous things to finish fights. Obviously those two are extreme examples and I am not suggesting GSP just start striking with people, abandoning his wrestling. He is just so plodding on the ground. After the fight GSP was talking about how the reason he couldnt finish is because he was looking for the submission too much just like a boxer going for the knockout too much wont get it, but the fact is that maybe he didn't get the submission because he didn't mix up grappling with any GNP.

Look at Matt Hughes, he is a wrestler. He is a pretty crappy striker even now. However, he got people to the ground and worked to finish them.

[FuzzyGopher]

GSP dominates people with his style. Why should he change it up? People call him boring but I find him very entertaining to watch. No one passes guard as easily as he does and his take downs are unreal. I understand that people want to see KO's and choke outs, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[josh07039]

GSP dominates people with his style. Why should he change it up? People call him boring but I find him very entertaining to watch. No one passes guard as easily as he does and his take downs are unreal. I understand that people want to see KO's and choke outs, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.I understand all that but I think my biggest gripe is that GSP is so great he can do anything. I look at a guy like Jon Fitch and realize that he is trying his best, but he just isn't good enough to finish people. He is a great wrestler and that is all. Fitch is trying to work and pound his opponent out on the ground, but he is what he is. GSP on the other hand is clearly capable of more. For example, I have no gripe about him not finishing Fitch because he pounded him into oblivion, I have fewer problems with the Alves fight compared to this one as well because he wasn't just playing it safe. There are times when fights are going to go to decision and its no ones fault. Some guys are just tough as hell and have great defense. Hardy was completely outclassed and GSP had so many dominant positions but did nothing with it.

[Ward]

josh think about it like this - if GSP goes all out, then the fight becomes more high risk. You can't simultaneously open up your offense without weakening your defense. Add that to the fact that GSP doesn't have to go 100% to beat guys, AND he's already got the damn belt! Why risk it? What does he have to gain by being known as a finisher? He's already the champion and he's already got the endorsement deals. All he has to do is keep winning, it doesn't even matter how.

[josh07039]

josh think about it like this - if GSP goes all out, then the fight becomes more high risk. You can't simultaneously open up your offense without weakening your defense. Add that to the fact that GSP doesn't have to go 100% to beat guys, AND he's already got the damn belt! Why risk it? What does he have to gain by being known as a finisher? He's already the champion and he's already got the endorsement deals. All he has to do is keep winning, it doesn't even matter how.I understand all that. I think if I were in his position I would do exactly the same. Then again, Im not a fighter so I would want to avoid punishment at all costs because I dont have the borderline insane mentality that is necessary to put your body on the line like these guys do. I just feel like especially against Dan Hardy, once on the ground, there isn't a huge amount of risk to posturing up a bit and raining down blows on the guy or one of the 50 times he had Hardy's back trying to pound him out. I mean, I can't believe that GSP was worried about Hardy pulling off a submission from his back.

[Rosebud]

I wish the UFC scoring system gave more credence to fighters trying to finish the fight. If that played a bigger role in the scoring I think we'd see more exciting fights as a guy playing it safe and just dominating the position battle won't have his victory as secure as the guy who takes some chance from those dominant positions when he gets them.

[Ward]

I wish the UFC scoring system gave more credence to fighters trying to finish the fight. If that played a bigger role in the scoring I think we'd see more exciting fights as a guy playing it safe and just dominating the position battle won't have his victory as secure as the guy who takes some chance from those dominant positions when he gets them.

To me it seems like you could punish a fighter by calling those fights draws. Get rid of judges completely, let draws be judged by the fans who watched them. Belt can't change hands, but there's no bogus win steak either by the champion.

[RaiderNation]

I want GSP vs Anderson Silva so bad

[Donno]

I was not happy that GSP won by decision, he needs to actually KO someone in one of his title defenses. Carwin showed he was the real deal I liked Carwin-Mir way more.

[Ward]

I count 8 strikes to the back of the head, consecutively:

http://i40.tinypic.com/15zjqix.jpg

[FuzzyGopher]

I was not happy that GSP won by decision, he needs to actually KO someone in one of his title defenses. Carwin showed he was the real deal I liked Carwin-Mir way more.

But he doesn't need to KO anyone to win. And until they change the rules he is going to keep fighting to his strengths and dominating people.

[MetSox17]

All this talk about GSP reminds me of the guys on the court when you're playing ball and you're doing something that they can't stop (shooting the ball, posting up, dribbling), then they hit you with the "well, if you're so good, why don't you do ___(opposite of what you're tearing them up with)___!!!!"

Give it a rest, please.

[E-Man]

All this talk about GSP reminds me of the guys on the court when you're playing ball and you're doing something that they can't stop (shooting the ball, posting up, dribbling), then they hit you with the "well, if you're so good, why don't you do ___(opposite of what you're tearing them up with)___!!!!"

Give it a rest, please.

This is a pretty damn good analogy. :up:

[BlindSite]

All this talk about GSP reminds me of the guys on the court when you're playing ball and you're doing something that they can't stop (shooting the ball, posting up, dribbling), then they hit you with the "well, if you're so good, why don't you do ___(opposite of what you're tearing them up with)___!!!!"

Give it a rest, please.

GSP shouldn't wrestle and Peyton Manning shouldn't throw touchdowns.

[djp]

I want GSP vs Anderson Silva so bad

I really think GSP would beat Silva at this point. His wrestling/takedown O is just so dominant. I don't think Anderson is good enough or GSP is bad enough from his back to get GSP in a vulnerable position. In this current UFC scoring system, I think GSP would shoot immediately and partake in the same type of fight as he's been doing. He's simply content with taking down his opponent and slowly breaking his will with numerous small damage strikes in other people's guard.

[Prowler]

I count 8 strikes to the back of the head, consecutively:

http://i40.tinypic.com/15zjqix.jpg

i remember thinking that but seeing a replay where 5-6 landed on the ears and only about 2-3 struck the back of the head. before he falls down he was hit in the back of the head, then another couple sneak in.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I only think 1 or 2 landed on the back of the head before Mir was Knocked out. They won't call that. It looked bad because Mergliottta(sp?) should have stopped it way sooner. Those punches looked pretty good to me. He was trying to punch the side but Frank was out.

[Rob S]

GSP is fine doing what he's doing if he is happy where he is at. Unless he fights Anderson, tho, it will be hard for him to take the p4p crown when Silva is knocking people senseless and finishing fights.

[josh07039]

All this talk about GSP reminds me of the guys on the court when you're playing ball and you're doing something that they can't stop (shooting the ball, posting up, dribbling), then they hit you with the "well, if you're so good, why don't you do ___(opposite of what you're tearing them up with)___!!!!"

Give it a rest, please.I disagree with that analogy because the guys who talk like that are out of bitterness that they are getting beat. At least with me, I am not a GSP hater, I just think that the guy is so talented and could be doing so much more and instead is just afraid of doing anything but playing it safe since he got clipped by Serra.

I think a good comparison would be if you are in a pickup game in a gym and one guy is 6'8 and a good player and all he does is back smaller guys down and dunk every time. Yeah hes big so he can do that, but cmon he can win in other ways.

[Hollywood]

I think a good comparison would be if you are in a pickup game in a gym and one guy is 6'8 and a good player and all he does is back smaller guys down and dunk every time. Yeah hes big so he can do that, but cmon he can win in other ways.

haha so basically you ARE the whining kid in his analogy. 'hey come on! you're so big! it's not fair that you can score this way so easily...do something more difficult for yourself!'

You score the easiest way possible if you are playing to win.

[UKfan]

Slightly off topic, but not sure if you guys know or not, all 10 series of the Ultimate Fighter are online at www.ultimatefighter.com, on a day off from work and just watching some old seasons now.

I forgot how big a douche Marlon Sims was!

[Rob S]

GSP is clearly a top fighter in the world and there is no need to change anything about his style. He wins clearly while putting himself in as little danger as possible, I'm not going to come out and say the guy has to change it. I will say tho, that until Silva loses or stops finishing guys regularly in brutal fashion, GSP can never pass him in the rankings p4p. Finishing guys is a very big part of MMA and contributes to a guys dominance. Right now, Anderson has that and GSP doesnt. Thats not a real knock on GSP, but more a testament to how great Silva has been the past few years. GSP has the ability to end fight if he opens up his GnP a bit.....it would be riskier, yes, but it would show me a killer instinct that is just about the only thing he is lacking (that is still splitting hairs a bit tho, I think GSP tries to finish fight, but not with the same tenacity of guys who really get after it on the ground like Brock, Carwin, Silva, Jon Jones etc.)

[Bengals78]

I only think 1 or 2 landed on the back of the head before Mir was Knocked out. They won't call that. It looked bad because Mergliottta(sp?) should have stopped it way sooner. Those punches looked pretty good to me. He was trying to punch the side but Frank was out.

Brock Lesnar disagrees.
They called it in his first fight with Mir.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Brock Lesnar disagrees.
They called it in his first fight with Mir.

Haha I still thought that was a stupid stand up. And then Mazzagati let Frank hold on to the lock like 10 seconds after Brock was tapping, lol.

[MetSox17]

Brock Lesnar disagrees.
They called it in his first fight with Mir.

Which was a total joke. Who was that ref, btw? Totally ruined the flow of that fight, Mir was getting rocked by a guy that had nearly zero experience in an MMA ring.

[Ravens1991]

Which was a total joke. Who was that ref, btw? Totally ruined the flow of that fight, Mir was getting rocked by a guy that had nearly zero experience in an MMA ring.

Mazzagatti I believe.

[Ward]

Dan Miragliotta. Let's not besmirch Mazzagatti's good name.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Dan Miragliotta. Let's not besmirch Mazzagatti's good name.

I think they were talking about Brock/Mir fight which was definitely Mazzagatti I believe. I think Mario is the most knowledgeable UFC ref right now. Mirgliotta poked Heath in the eye for goodness sakes. No refs are perfect including Big John, but as for current UFC refs Migliotta is the worst, while Mazzagatti and Yves Lavigne have made some horrible decisions. Herb Dean appears to be the most solid ref right now, he used to stop fights prematurely a lot, but he appears to be one of the best at this point. Again though you can't completely blame a ref because it's a split second judgment kind of thing. You want to protect the fighters but at the same time I'm sure they feel pressure from the organization especially in championship fights to give the fallen fighter every chance to try to regain. What happened though in the Carwin fight was inexcusable. Also the stoppages is not my biggest problem with Mirgliotta, I just can't stand how he breaks up so easy. Just because guys aren't brawling doesn't mean you can take someone out of dominant position.

[Ravens1991]

yeah I thought he meant lesnar/mir 1 and that was Mazzagatti.


But yeah why does Miragliotta still have a job? I thought Mir was gonna die in there.

[Bengals78]

Maz was the first Mir/Lesnar
In the second fight Brock refused to let him ref it.

[E-Man]

Dana bashes Mazagatti a lot, and I can't say I disagree with him. He's made a ton of mistakes in the past. I remember one fight to where Gonzaga knocked out Hendricks. He was clearly KOed, and Gonzaga just looked at Maz and asked if he wants him to hit him again. Maz was like, "Sure."

Yves Lavinge is a pretty good ref. His one glaring mishap was stopping the fight between Matt Brown and Pete Sell, and then restarting it again. He's normally a good guy. Herb Dead and Yamasaki are the best though.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Herb Dean is a g.

[Tampa 2 4 life]

Herb Dean is a g.

Herb Dean is bar none the best.

[Ravens1991]

I miss Big John McCarthy.


It is just plain strange that Mirgliatta still has a job

[E-Man]

Mirgliatta having a job is sad. He's messed up so many times that I think he's trolling the MMA community.

[E-Man]

I love Tom Lawlor for doing this. lol

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[FuzzyGopher]

New season of TUF starts tonight, there is also a card on Spike that starts @ 8et.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

New season of TUF starts tonight, there is also a card on Spike that starts @ 8et.

I don't think at this point in his career Gomi can take on KenFlo. As for Nelson and Struve, Nelson should win. He's a better boxer and has a better chin. As far as getting caught in a submission in Struve's slick guard, I doubt that would happen to Nelson. Nelson is a great grappler and his mass along will restrict Struve from advancing positions. I see Nelson winning a decision with some mediocre GnP.

[josh07039]

Struve v. Nelson may be the greatest fight I have ever seen.

[SwagU]

Awesome KO by Nelson. Don't be fooled, behind that fat is muscle lol.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Lol Murgliotta was the ref.

[josh07039]

I just couldn't stop laughing at all the ridiculousness in the cage. First you have Roy, who in himself, is just an absurd figure. With the fat, the hair, the nickname, and the personality, he is already hilarious, but when you add in the height difference between him and Struve, and Miaraglotta being the ref in the tight shirt, it was a lethal combo. Then when Nelson just started whinging overhands, it just got over the top.

Sadly, Nelson will never be a champ, but he sure is fun to have around.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I think Roy gets a huge upgrade in competition next. Maybe another tuneup for JDS, or maybe Mir or Kongo.

[Caddy]

Kyle Noke is going to take everyone to town in TUF!

[E-Man]

Man last night's TUF has some good fights. That was probably the best first day of fights since they started having qualifying fights to get in the house.

[El Peefs?????]

Mirgliatta having a job is sad. He's messed up so many times that I think he's trolling the MMA community.

Its almost as sad as Cecil Peoples still being allowed to judge fights.

[Bengals78]

I just couldn't stop laughing at all the ridiculousness in the cage. First you have Roy, who in himself, is just an absurd figure. With the fat, the hair, the nickname, and the personality, he is already hilarious, but when you add in the height difference between him and Struve, and Miaraglotta being the ref in the tight shirt, it was a lethal combo. Then when Nelson just started whinging overhands, it just got over the top.

Sadly, Nelson will never be a champ, but he sure is fun to have around.

He will get his shot. He will run through the B level people. He savvy enough in the octagon to know who to stand with and who not to.
His high will probably be a bout with Mir/other top contender and be a great test for the UFC to find legit HW contenders.

[josh07039]

He will get his shot. He will run through the B level people. He savvy enough in the octagon to know who to stand with and who not to.
His high will probably be a bout with Mir/other top contender and be a great test for the UFC to find legit HW contenders.Ill agree with that. There is a lot of talk about him against Mir or JDS for his next bout. I would love for him to beat JDS, not because I have anything against JDS, just for the sheer novelty of having Big Country derail one of the more hyped prospects in the company. The thing with Nelson is that compared to the top guys in the division, he is just woefully undersized and underpowered. You look at Mir against Carwin and say that he just go overpowered, imagine what would happen to Nelson.

[Bengals78]

Ill agree with that. There is a lot of talk about him against Mir or JDS for his next bout. I would love for him to beat JDS, not because I have anything against JDS, just for the sheer novelty of having Big Country derail one of the more hyped prospects in the company. The thing with Nelson is that compared to the top guys in the division, he is just woefully undersized and underpowered. You look at Mir against Carwin and say that he just go overpowered, imagine what would happen to Nelson.

I think Nelson can take a punch unlike Mir.
So he could potentially use his underrated ground game to beat Carwin.

[JF4]

I think Nelson can take a punch unlike Mir.
So he could potentially use his underrated ground game to beat Carwin.

haha no chance. Carwin would KO him so fast it wouldn't be funny.

It didn't come down to Mir not being able to take a punch, it came down to Carwin having refrigerators for hands and unleashing his freakish power on Mir.

[Bengals78]

haha no chance. Carwin would KO him so fast it wouldn't be funny.

It didn't come down to Mir not being able to take a punch, it came down to Carwin having refrigerators for hands and unleashing his freakish power on Mir.

Carwin's entire game is 1 punch.
He was getting tooled by Gonzaga until he landed 1 punch.
Nelson will avoid it better than Mir.
Lesnar will expose Carwin

[UKfan]

I think JDS would give Carwin fits, for a HW he is very fast and Carwin, whilst clearly a beast doesnt seem to quick. Cain might also cause issues too...

Also, damn Brock, he's ruined Frank Mir for me, everytime I see Mir, I think "Murrrrrrrrrr"

[JF4]

Carwin's entire game is 1 punch.
He was getting tooled by Gonzaga until he landed 1 punch.
Nelson will avoid it better than Mir.
Lesnar will expose Carwin

You highly overrate Nelson. His standup IMO is worse than Mir's. Like Mir though he is very smart and technical but still I can't see him avoiding the punch any better than Mir. Nelson has beaten absolutely nobody in his career that has been close to top tier.

Carwin was hardly getting tooled, but yes Gonzaga landed a couple good shots.

Lesnar might just expose Carwin as he most likely will take him down. Carwin did show the ability to get back to his feet against Gonzaga, but his ground game in general is still a mystery.

[Bengals78]

If Lesnar gets you down, you dont get back up unless:
A. He wants you to.
B. Steve Mazagatti is the ref.

[josh07039]

I think Nelson can take a punch unlike Mir.
So he could potentially use his underrated ground game to beat Carwin.I'm not going to argue that Mir has a good chin, but I can't see any human being but Prime Nog or Fedor (Not really humans) taking the beatings Mir has from Lesnar and Carwin. I do agree that with his heavy hands and good ground game, Nelson has the possibility of pulling an upset, I just don't know how likely it is.

[E-Man]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1196/ceauw.jpg

[Bengals78]

I'm not going to argue that Mir has a good chin, but I can't see any human being but Prime Nog or Fedor (Not really humans) taking the beatings Mir has from Lesnar and Carwin. I do agree that with his heavy hands and good ground game, Nelson has the possibility of pulling an upset, I just don't know how likely it is.

Its as a big of a chance as any of the surprise fights.
I wouldnt say Nelson is a favorite or that I would pick him, but I do think he has a better shot than anyone outside the UFC's top 3 HW. Lesnar, Cain & Dos Santos.

[josh07039]

Its as a big of a chance as any of the surprise fights.
I wouldnt say Nelson is a favorite or that I would pick him, but I do think he has a better shot than anyone outside the UFC's top 3 HW. Lesnar, Cain & Dos Santos.I'll buy it. My thoughts exactly.

Just to keep the thread rolling, I know it is unlikely to happen because Dana wants to avoid risk to GSP because he's such a valuable property, but who would you want him fighting at middleweight and what do you believe the outcome would be.

Also, more likely-Penn to WW, who is his first fight and what happens.

For GSP, I would want Belfort and despite my negative comments about him, I think GSP would most likely win it. I think the comments about his chin being weak are overrated and it wouldn't come into play anyhow.

For Penn, I would want Fitch to see if Penn can prove that he can beat a really big wrestler. I think Fitch would win due to size and top control, but if Penn won, I could see him beating GSP.

[fenikz]

if penn beats fitch he can finally beat gsp?

how do you figure

[josh07039]

if penn beats fitch he can finally beat gsp?

how do you figureI think that GSP is done striking with anyone so even if he can beat Penn striking based on his reach advantage, he probably wont bother.If Penn can handle the top control or stop the TDs of fitch I feel like that shows that perhaps his new strength program has given him the chance to not be completely nullified by GSP's wrestling. I wouldn't pick Penn to win even if he beat Fitch, but for me to believe any man has a shot against GSP, I think he needs to beat fitch.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I'm actually interested in seeing the winner of Daley/Kos to get a title shot. Obviously Kos has the better chance because he's one of the most well rounded WW's and has that wrestling pedigree, but it would be interesting to see Daley go up against GSP and try to knock him out. 99% likelihood though that it would be a repeat of Hardy/GSP but GSP could easily finish Daley on the ground. Too bad he's tied down to Strikeforce because I'd love to see Jake Shields have a go at GSP.

[Bengals78]

Once GSP loses his strength and takedowns - which fighting a legitimate 185'er would cause - he is a very average boring fighter.

He doesnt show a killer instinct anymore.
He doesnt always seem to try to advance position, but more or less happy with what his opponents give him.
Thats why Chuck Liddell was so well liked. Wasnt just the knockouts but the killer instinct and desire to finish a guy than leave it to judges.

[MetSox17]

He doesnt always seem to try to advance position, but more or less happy with what his opponents give him.


What? The only time GSP ever stayed in Hardy's guard was when he chose to stay cause his corner told him to. When he wanted to advance, he did. If Hardy tried rolling, he'd take his back. How exactly is that not trying to advance position? He does that pretty much every fight, no one can keep their full guard on GSP.

[Rob S]

St. Pierre ALWAYS works to advance position, every fight he tries. My issue with him is that he works to get into great sports, but wont go all out to try and finish a guy when he has them in danger.

[BlindSite]

Once GSP loses his strength and takedowns - which fighting a legitimate 185'er would cause - he is a very average boring fighter.

He doesnt show a killer instinct anymore.
He doesnt always seem to try to advance position, but more or less happy with what his opponents give him.
Thats why Chuck Liddell was so well liked. Wasnt just the knockouts but the killer instinct and desire to finish a guy than leave it to judges.

Two bad posts one after the other.

GSP is the best p4p fighter in the world right now, he's better than anderson silva and he's better than Fedor Emilienko, he fights anyone the UFC puts in front of him and in the past few defenses hasn't broken a sweat doing it.

Daley in the title shot would be boring because his wrestling is so abhorrent it would be GSP / Hardy 2.0 but with a faster decision with Daley tapping out.

Koscheck would be a good fight IF Koscheck has improved enough to keep the fight standing, Fitch, Kos are the two best wrestlers other than GSP in the division and having each other as training partners is going to change the next fight with GSP should either of them get a shot soon dramatically.

[Rob S]

Two bad posts one after the other.

GSP is the best p4p fighter in the world right now, he's better than anderson silva and he's better than Fedor Emilienko, he fights anyone the UFC puts in front of him and in the past few defenses hasn't broken a sweat doing it.

Daley in the title shot would be boring because his wrestling is so abhorrent it would be GSP / Hardy 2.0 but with a faster decision with Daley tapping out.

Koscheck would be a good fight IF Koscheck has improved enough to keep the fight standing, Fitch, Kos are the two best wrestlers other than GSP in the division and having each other as training partners is going to change the next fight with GSP should either of them get a shot soon dramatically.

I agree with most of your post, but I see no way in hell GSP is over Silva p4p. Silva has done everything you said about GSP except he has done it in 2 weight classes and has stopped almost everyone in brutal fashion. GSP can't be put over him until Silva loses, looks terrible winning in consecutive fights or GSP starts stopping guys at both WW and MW.

[josh07039]

I agree with most of your post, but I see no way in hell GSP is over Silva p4p. Silva has done everything you said about GSP except he has done it in 2 weight classes and has stopped almost everyone in brutal fashion. GSP can't be put over him until Silva loses, looks terrible winning in consecutive fights or GSP starts stopping guys at both WW and MW.Yeah as much as I bash GSP for being unbelievably boring, he is a great fighter. He is not number one though. GSP dominates for five rounds, Anderson Sivla just brutalizes everyone. Outside of friendship, I see no reason why Silva couldn't easily be champ at LHW too. With GSP, I dont see him beinga dominant champ at MW, even if Silva were too permanently move up. GSP is a great fighter and p4p #2, but he has nothing on Silva.

I was just thinking, isn't it funny how Silva got such a crazy backlash from the public with two "boring" fights and GSP hasn't gotten the same level of vitriol after 3 5 rounders in a row.

[MetSox17]

I agree with most of your post, but I see no way in hell GSP is over Silva p4p. Silva has done everything you said about GSP except he has done it in 2 weight classes and has stopped almost everyone in brutal fashion. GSP can't be put over him until Silva loses, looks terrible winning in consecutive fights or GSP starts stopping guys at both WW and MW.

Hm, i see where you're coming from, but where i disagree is the fact that you're placing more value on how a fight is dominated in the standup. I don't think there should be more weight given to you dominating in striking, wrestling, or bjj. GSP absolutely demolishes people, the same way Silva would when he initially came into the UFC (from a wrestling standpoint). I disagree that being a dominant striker makes you a better p4p guy over a dominant wrestler, when neither fighter even comes close to losing in their title defenses.

I don't have an argument against Silva being #1, but i think your logic is a little fallacious as to why you think he is.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

My Top 5 P4P:

1) Anderson Silva
2) Fedor
3) Aldo
4) GSP
5) Penn

[Rob S]

Hm, i see where you're coming from, but where i disagree is the fact that you're placing more value on how a fight is dominated in the standup. I don't think there should be more weight given to you dominating in striking, wrestling, or bjj. GSP absolutely demolishes people, the same way Silva would when he initially came into the UFC (from a wrestling standpoint). I disagree that being a dominant striker makes you a better p4p guy over a dominant wrestler, when neither fighter even comes close to losing in their title defenses.

I don't have an argument against Silva being #1, but i think your logic is a little fallacious as to why you think he is.

My logic isnt that Silva is a better striker and should be higher. Sure strikers may lend themselves to higher finishing rates, but with GSP's wrestling and amazing skill at passing guard, he should be able to use GnP to finish more guys. Look at Matt Hughes, his finish rate was terrific due to great wrestling and being willing to get after it once he got you down. If GSP opened up his GnP and really went after guys on the ground he could have just as good a stoppage rate as Silva. This is where the difference between the 2 lies.....despite both men having the ability to do it, Silva ends fights with regularity, GSP doesn't. Stoppages are HUGE in MMA when 1 punch can end a fight (look at the Serra fight....what if Hardy cracks him like Serra did early rd.5). It's not bc Silva is a striker, its because GSP isn't as aggressive on the ground. I am taking nothing away from GSP by the way, I think him vs Silva would be a tough fight to call, but at the moment Silva is clearly # 1 p4p when you look at stoppages and wins in multiple classes.

[Rob S]

Also, for the record, GSP is my #2 p4p fighter right now. He flat out dominates people. Fedor is in contention, and while he stops people (which I value), he hasn't looked nearly as dominant as GSP has recently.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Also, for the record, GSP is my #2 p4p fighter right now. He flat out dominates people. Fedor is in contention, and while he stops people (which I value), he hasn't looked nearly as dominant as GSP has recently.

GSP does dominate his opponents, but how was Fedor not dominant in his most recent fights, i.e. Sylvia, Arlovski, Rogers. Granted the competition wasn't amazing but he won all 3 fights in spectacular fashion and 2 of them were over as soon as they started.

[Rob S]

GSP does dominate his opponents, but how was Fedor not dominant in his most recent fights, i.e. Sylvia, Arlovski, Rogers. Granted the competition wasn't amazing but he won all 3 fights in spectacular fashion and 2 of them were over as soon as they started.

Sylvia he destroyed.....with Arlovski and Rogers I got the feeling watching the fight that Fedor could lose. Both guys looked decent enough standing with him that I could see him losing. I have never felt that way recently when watching GSP. That said, nobody made it past 8 min. with him, which is insane, but I was still nervous at times. I see your argument tho.

Also, the competition is a pretty big issue. Fedor wasnt fighting scrubs, but GSP and Silva have both cleaned out divisions more recently than Fedor has. Here is another reason why I put GSP ahead: If you match up GSP with the #2 WW, he is favored by a massive margin. If you do the same Fedor and match him with Brock, it is probably a pick-em fight.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Even though he's still so damn young, I have Aldo right up there in the mix for the top spot. I mean Mike Brown was top 10 p4p before their fight and he made Brown one of the toughest fighters out there look like a baby. Also c'mon call it luck but beating Cub Swanson in 8 seconds, ridiculous. Aldo just has vicious fight finishing ability. If he can dominate Faber in his upcoming match I'd have no problem having him right there at the top. I really wish we could see an Aldo, B.J. fight.

[Rob S]

Even though he's still so damn young, I have Aldo right up there in the mix for the top spot. I mean Mike Brown was top 10 p4p before their fight and he made Brown one of the toughest fighters out there look like a baby. Also c'mon call it luck but beating Cub Swanson in 8 seconds, ridiculous. Aldo just has vicious fight finishing ability. If he can dominate Faber in his upcoming match I'd have no problem having him right there at the top. I really wish we could see an Aldo, B.J. fight.

I honestly dont watch enough of those guys so I can't comment. I could certainly see it tho. My one knock may be that the FW class tends to see a lot turnover so I could see another unknown coming along and knocking off Aldo. Again tho, I dont watch enough of those guys right now.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Well over the past 5 years or so there hasn't really been a huge changing of the guards. Urijah dominated the division for 2 or 3 years and then Brown had it for a little bit, and now Aldo.

[Rob S]

Well over the past 5 years or so there hasn't really been a huge changing of the guards. Urijah dominated the division for 2 or 3 years and then Brown had it for a little bit, and now Aldo.

Yeah I mean since Urijah really. Plus, I think I was confusing it with BW a bit haha.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Yeah I mean since Urijah really. Plus, I think I was confusing it with BW a bit haha.

Batamweight definitely has been crazy. I thought Torres would have a stronghold on the division for a while, but apparently not. Oh and Bowles losing the title was shocking.

[Ward]

Just wanted to get in on this P4P list:

1. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Anderson Silva
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. B.J. Penn
5. Lyoto Machida
6. Shogun Rua
7. Thiago Alves
8. Gegard Mousasi
9. Jose Aldo
10. Jon Fitch

[E-Man]

The thing with Anderson, GSP, and Fedor is that all three are great. You can make an argument for either guy being #1 P4P within reason. I think Anderson is the highest because he's so great at one thing that it easily shuts down others so well. No one in MMA can last on the feet against Anderson, and his ground game keeps him well rounded enough to stay dangerous everywhere. Look at the fight with Leites. It was boring as hell, but when Leites took Anderson down in the *** he nearly got subbed. Anderson pulled out some nice transitions, and got back to his feet without being in any trouble. Outside of top guys like Maia and Palhares, Anderson may be able to sub dudes right now. You can't really go anywhere with him without being in danger.

GSP is more well rounded than Anderson and Fedor. He's really good at everything, kinda like Fedor but more technical. I find it funny that people question his striking. Do you really think a guy that's put in so much work being great at wrestling would suck at striking? GSP is good at it. He's not the greatest striker like a Machida or Anderson, but he's got good head movement and combos. What keeps him behind Anderson is that he doesn't have that devastating game like Anderson or Fedor. GSP will dominate anyone, but he won't outright destroy him like those guys. Anderson steals souls, and Fedor just makes guys his *****. GSP saps people's will, but it's more methodical. Nothing wrong with that at all. I put him ahead of Fedor just because of his competition. GSP has probably beaten the best comp of all time so far in MMA.

Fedor is good all around like GSP. He may be a little "sloppy" in some aspects, but he's a threat everywhere you go. He also has a killer mentality to destroy people, and it's like he won't stop until he's accomplished his mission. He's also great at taking damage. He's gotten hit with things that would hurt or finish most guys, but came back and won in impressive fashion. Randleplex anyone? How many dudes would get slammed like that without dying?

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

The thing with Anderson, GSP, and Fedor is that all three are great. You can make an argument for either guy being #1 P4P within reason. I think Anderson is the highest because he's so great at one thing that it easily shuts down others so well. No one in MMA can last on the feet against Anderson, and his ground game keeps him well rounded enough to stay dangerous everywhere. Look at the fight with Leites. It was boring as hell, but when Leites took Anderson down in the *** he nearly got subbed. Anderson pulled out some nice transitions, and got back to his feet without being in any trouble. Outside of top guys like Maia and Palhares, Anderson may be able to sub dudes right now. You can't really go anywhere with him without being in danger.

GSP is more well rounded than Anderson and Fedor. He's really good at everything, kinda like Fedor but more technical. I find it funny that people question his striking. Do you really think a guy that's put in so much work being great at wrestling would suck at striking? GSP is good at it. He's not the greatest striker like a Machida or Anderson, but he's got good head movement and combos. What keeps him behind Anderson is that he doesn't have that devastating game like Anderson or Fedor. GSP will dominate anyone, but he won't outright destroy him like those guys. Anderson steals souls, and Fedor just makes guys his *****. GSP saps people's will, but it's more methodical. Nothing wrong with that at all. I put him ahead of Fedor just because of his competition. GSP has probably beaten the best comp of all time so far in MMA.

Fedor is good all around like GSP. He may be a little "sloppy" in some aspects, but he's a threat everywhere you go. He also has a killer mentality to destroy people, and it's like he won't stop until he's accomplished his mission. He's also great at taking damage. He's gotten hit with things that would hurt or finish most guys, but came back and won in impressive fashion. Randleplex anyone? How many dudes would get slammed like that without dying?

I don't think people question his striking as much as they question his chin. I honestly believe he is afraid to stand up with a lot of people. Plus he won't move up in class so to me he doesn't want to test how good he really is.

[Rob S]

I don't think people question his striking as much as they question his chin. I honestly believe he is afraid to stand up with a lot of people. Plus he won't move up in class so to me he doesn't want to test how good he really is.


Agreed, GSP has proved to be a good striker when he chooses to stand. He just doesnt do it anymore because I think he questions his own chin a little after the Serra debacle. That and the fact that he doesnt need to stand bc his wrestling is so damn good now.....I think its a combination of both factors. I don't think you can knock him for the class thing....He has said he wont go up to 185 unless he does it the right way, if he spends the 3-4 months or so that would be necessary to do it the right way, he may have some trouble getting back to 170, and even if he did, he would have to train like a lunatic to regain the muscle if he went back to 185. If he doesnt feel ready or want to move up 15 pounds thats fine in my book and doesnt reflect negatively on his p4p ranking......it does enhance Silva's ranking tho.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Agreed, GSP has proved to be a good striker when he chooses to stand. He just doesnt do it anymore because I think he questions his own chin a little after the Serra debacle. That and the fact that he doesnt need to stand bc his wrestling is so damn good now.....I think its a combination of both factors. I don't think you can knock him for the class thing....He has said he wont go up to 185 unless he does it the right way, if he spends the 3-4 months or so that would be necessary to do it the right way, he may have some trouble getting back to 170, and even if he did, he would have to train like a lunatic to regain the muscle if he went back to 185. If he doesnt feel ready or want to move up 15 pounds thats fine in my book and doesnt reflect negatively on his p4p ranking......it does enhance Silva's ranking tho.

Agree completely. He IMO can not be higher than Silva because of that reason.

[MaxV]

Anderson is the man. He is more dominant then either GSP or Fedor.

The only beef against him is that he isn't a MW.

[ironman4579]

Agreed, GSP has proved to be a good striker when he chooses to stand. He just doesnt do it anymore because I think he questions his own chin a little after the Serra debacle. That and the fact that he doesnt need to stand bc his wrestling is so damn good now.....I think its a combination of both factors. I don't think you can knock him for the class thing....He has said he wont go up to 185 unless he does it the right way, if he spends the 3-4 months or so that would be necessary to do it the right way, he may have some trouble getting back to 170, and even if he did, he would have to train like a lunatic to regain the muscle if he went back to 185. If he doesnt feel ready or want to move up 15 pounds thats fine in my book and doesnt reflect negatively on his p4p ranking......it does enhance Silva's ranking tho.

I wouldn't put GSP above Silva at this point either. However, there's definately a difference between GSP moving up, and Silva moving up. GSP walks around at about 195 from what I've heard. At 185 he'd be one of the smaller guys. I've heard from a couple places recently that Silva actually walks around at about 230-240, and then cuts a ton to get down to 185. When Silva moves up to LHW, he's still a pretty big LHW.

[Rob S]

I wouldn't put GSP above Silva at this point either. However, there's definately a difference between GSP moving up, and Silva moving up. GSP walks around at about 195 from what I've heard. At 185 he'd be one of the smaller guys. I've heard from a couple places recently that Silva actually walks around at about 230-240, and then cuts a ton to get down to 185. When Silva moves up to LHW, he's still a pretty big LHW.

doesnt matter.....he puts the work in to get down to 185. If he didn't do the cut correctly he could look like crap at the lower weight ala Miguel Cotto in his last few fights at 140 (for boxing fans). As I said you cant hold it against GSP, but it is a bonus for Anderson.

[ccB]

1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St Pierre
3. BJ Penn
4. Fedor Emelianenko
5. Jose Aldo
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Mauricio Rua
8. Gegard Mousasi
9. Dan Henderson
10. Dominick Cruz

[E-Man]

Silva's walk around weight isn't the 230 that people think it is. There was one interview to where he said he got up to 230, but there are other interviews to where he says he normally walks around 210. The guy probably doesn't have the frame to be 230. That's the same size as Donovan McNabb, and Donovan's frame probably dwarfs Silva's. Anderson is a really skinny guy. If Anderson is 230, Tito and Forrest must be 250 out of training. Remember that he fought at 167 before. I have a hard time believing that this guy walks around at such a high weight, and then diets down to 185. I would really fear for his safety if he did that consistently. That's a large amount of weight to be consistently dieting and cutting.

[ccB]

Silva cuts to 185 from 220, Forrest cuts to 205 from 230-240.

[josh07039]

No way Silva has the build of Forrest or Donovan, but he has said that when he isn't training he loves to eat and get fat. Maybe when h does nothing, Anderson get a big ass belly, who knows? I mean, i know there are other fighters that get fat when they don't train (Rampage for example).

[ironman4579]

doesnt matter.....he puts the work in to get down to 185. If he didn't do the cut correctly he could look like crap at the lower weight ala Miguel Cotto in his last few fights at 140 (for boxing fans). As I said you cant hold it against GSP, but it is a bonus for Anderson.

For sure. I'm not holding it against Silva by any means. I said I'd still put Silva over GSP. To be honest, my point was more directed at a possible Silva/GSP matchup than anything. It seems like a catch weight would be tough to find that would be fair for both fighters.

[ccB]

When Silva goes up to 205 it's not necessarily fair, when BJ moves up to 170 and fights a GSP who's weighing in at 190 its not fair, why can't GSP move up to 185 and test himself like those 2 guys have?

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

When Silva goes up to 205 it's not necessarily fair, when BJ moves up to 170 and fights a GSP who's weighing in at 190 its not fair, why can't GSP move up to 185 and test himself like those 2 guys have?

He is afraid to take a punch at the class he is in now. We all know the reason

[Ward]

1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St Pierre
3. BJ Penn
4. Fedor Emelianenko
5. Jose Aldo
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Mauricio Rua
8. Gegard Mousasi
9. Dan Henderson
10. Dominick Cruz

Unique list. Penn over Fedor is bold, and I'm a huge Penn fan. Care to justify your 9 and 10?

[fenikz]

might as well

1. Anderson Silva
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. George St. Pierre
4. BJ Penn
5. Jose Aldo
6. Lyoto Machida
6a. Maurico Shogun Rua
8. Brock Lesnar
9. Gegard Mousasi
10. Jon Fitch

[SwagU]

When Silva goes up to 205 it's not necessarily fair, when BJ moves up to 170 and fights a GSP who's weighing in at 190 its not fair, why can't GSP move up to 185 and test himself like those 2 guys have?

I belive GSP does not wan't to go up to 185 because he knows he wil not have that huge strength advantage over the competition like he does at welterweight, putting a hault to some of his gameplan.

[ccB]

Unique list. Penn over Fedor is bold, and I'm a huge Penn fan. Care to justify your 9 and 10?

I always value the lighter fighters more in a P4P list, add in the fact that Fedor hasn't been fighting the best of the best, and doesn't fight regularly, I bumped him down to 4.

As for 9 and 10, there were a lot of guys who you could put there. I considered Velasquez, Lesnar, Aoki, Nick Diaz, Kenny Florian, and Fitch but I value Hendersons versatility, being able to compete at a high level at 185 and 205, there aren't many other fighters in the world who could be in the top 5 of 2 different weight classes. His only losses in the last 3 years were to Rampage and Anderson Silva, both of which were championship fights, and unlike Jon Fitch, Dan Henderson finishes fights. I believe if Hendo had been re-signed he'd be fighting Anderson Silva now in place of Demian Maia, and that would be a winnable fight for Dan, not saying he would win, but if anyone can beat Anderson Silva it's Dan Henderson. It's an unconventional way to pick someone for a P4P list, but P4P lists are pretty pointless anyway.

As for number 10, Dominick Cruz is a beast. His only loss as a professional was to Uriah Faber and that was at 145. He's now fighting at 135 and is the WEC Bantamweight champion, beating the likes of Brian Bowles and Joseph Benavides, both of which were/are top 5 fighters in the division.

[ccB]

I belive GSP does not wan't to go up to 185 because he knows he wil not have that huge strength advantage over the competition like he does at welterweight, putting a hault to some of his gameplan.

Exactly, which in my mind is a ***** move.

[josh07039]

Exactly, which in my mind is a ***** move.I agree that it is a ***** move but I also understand that losing costs GSP more than most fighters because he is such a brand name. If he gets brutalized at middleweight or loses some legitimacy in another way, gatorade and under armor might not keep calling him for ads. Im not justifying what I believe is kinda cowardly just saying I understand his perspective.

[Rob S]

It's not cowardly if he knows he is going to get beat, its smart. You should never take a fight you think you will lose, ever. GSP knows best as to if he can cut the mustard at 185.....if he knows he cant and will get beat by even borderline top guys, I don't blame him. Now, if he legit thinks he can win vs MW fighters, I see the point.

[JF4]

I belive GSP does not wan't to go up to 185 because he knows he wil not have that huge strength advantage over the competition like he does at welterweight, putting a hault to some of his gameplan.

Why is everyone saying that GSP doesn't want to move up when he has said that he would if asked to?

He hasn't stepped up and called for it to happen asap but it will happen soon enough. UFC has been more than happy to make fights with him at WW because there are some pretty marketable guys below him like Hughes, Fitch, Alves or even Hardy. That isn't the case in MW where you had Silva fighting guys like Cote, Leites and now Maia.

If I were to guess, GSP is going to have 1 or possibly 2 more title defenses before UFC asks him to go up and fight Silva who I think is going to fight Belfort eventually.

In reality, GSP is doing exactly what the UFC is asking him and he would not be scared to move up to another weight class nor is he avoiding it.

[JF4]

1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St Pierre
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. BJ Penn
5. Jose Aldo
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Mauricio Rua
8. Gegard Mousasi
9. Dan Henderson
10. Brock Lesnar

[SwagU]

UFC gave him the possibilty of fighting Silva last year I believe, and GSP told them not right now. To be honest every fighter will give the speech they will welcome any fight, but we do not know what happens behind closed doors.

[Rob S]

UFC gave him the possibilty of fighting Silva last year I believe, and GSP told them not right now. To be honest every fighter will give the speech they will welcome any fight, but we do not know what happens behind closed doors.

idk if a Silva fight was officially on the table, but GSP was offered a fight at 185 in the UFC.....he said he didn't have adequate time to gain the weight the right way and would not change divisions unless he did. I don't blame him for this, but to say he has never been asked or had the opportunity is incorrect.

[josh07039]

It's not cowardly if he knows he is going to get beat, its smart. You should never take a fight you think you will lose, ever. GSP knows best as to if he can cut the mustard at 185.....if he knows he cant and will get beat by even borderline top guys, I don't blame him. Now, if he legit thinks he can win vs MW fighters, I see the point.Well GSP and Firas always talk about how no 170 pounder can compete with him in training and he must go after marquardt and cote and other bigger guys because the WWs just arent a challenge. I think GSP is just constantly afraid of losing and knows 185 will pose a bigger risk. WEll that is the case wtih any fighter movign up. Look at penn or silva or couture. Greater risk gets you greater respect and glory. If GSP wants to be the best ever, he needs to stop playing it safe.

[Chucky]

idk if a Silva fight was officially on the table, but GSP was offered a fight at 185 in the UFC.....he said he didn't have adequate time to gain the weight the right way and would not change divisions unless he did. I don't blame him for this, but to say he has never been asked or had the opportunity is incorrect.

I mean...there is nothing wrong with gaining weight the right way. Look at what happened to BJ when he did it the wrong way. However doing it the right way takes tons of time and effort which is maybe something Dana doesn't want him doing

[Rob S]

I mean...there is nothing wrong with gaining weight the right way. Look at what happened to BJ when he did it the wrong way. However doing it the right way takes tons of time and effort which is maybe something Dana doesn't want him doing

Yeah, for sure man. I don't blame him for that. If he moves up, he should do it the right way (although GSP's diet is **** anyway, so it probably won't matter bc he just doesn't put on fat). My point was just that if he thinks he can win at MW he should move up and test himself bc WW, for all intensive purposes, is wiped out.

[E-Man]

GSP is two wins away from beating Matt Hughes' title defense record. If Anderson loses to Maia, it will be an even bigger deal. He should stay at welter to break that record, because it would really solidify his legacy. If he moves up without doing that, then people will look back wondering why he didn't break that record. I think it would be a cloud hanging over his career to newer fans.

[Rob S]

GSP is two wins away from beating Matt Hughes' title defense record. If Anderson loses to Maia, it will be an even bigger deal. He should stay at welter to break that record, because it would really solidify his legacy. If he moves up without doing that, then people will look back wondering why he didn't break that record. I think it would be a cloud hanging over his career to newer fans.

I guess, if he wants that personally, but I dont think anyone would wonder why he chose to challenge himself at 185 rather than beat up 2 more scrubs that don't have a snowballs chance in hell vs him.....plus if he loses at 185, just do what BJ did, keep the title and go back down.

[E-Man]

I think Koscheck or Fitch again would be a decent match-up for GSP again. It's not the most appealing thing, but I have a feeling that GSP wouldn't be too good at middleweight. He'd probably have a nice record, but I think the top guys would keep him middle of the road. We'll see when he eventually tries it out though. I think he'll move up next year after the title defense record is his.

[Donno]

1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St Pierre
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. BJ Penn
5. Jose Aldo
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Mauricio Rua
8. Gegard Mousasi
9. Dan Henderson
10. Brock Lesnar

Why is Fedor not number one? He has defeated everyone put in front of him. (Fujita fight does not count)

[Rob S]

Why is Fedor not number one? He has defeated everyone put in front of him. (Fujita fight does not count)

His opposition and activity level over the past few years has been subpar and it is near impossible to justify having him in the top spot now.

[fenikz]

just wondering since i've only been watching MMA regularly since 2007 if Fedor would be considered the greatest P4P fighter of all time?

[Rob S]

just wondering since i've only been watching MMA regularly since 2007 if Fedor would be the great P4P fighter of all time?

I still have to think so. He has never had a legit loss and cleaned out his division in PRIDE in dominant fashion. If Silva or GSP were to move up and clean out a division in addition to their current one, I think that wins the argument for them.

[nepg]

It's been better comp than the other 3 champs have faced. Only the LHW's can really claim to have faced better competition than Fedor, and neither Machida nor Moussasi has done it for long enough to make claims at #1.

[nepg]

I think Koscheck or Fitch again would be a decent match-up for GSP again. It's not the most appealing thing, but I have a feeling that GSP wouldn't be too good at middleweight. He'd probably have a nice record, but I think the top guys would keep him middle of the road. We'll see when he eventually tries it out though. I think he'll move up next year after the title defense record is his.
The bigger fighters and better wrestlers at MW would cause GSP serious problems. At WW, he out-sizes everyone and just takes them down and beats them for 25 minutes. He just wouldn't be able to do that to some of the better fighters at 185.

He needs to fight more submission fighters. They keep putting him up against guys who want to strike with him, but then GSP just takes them down. If I'm not mistaken, the Hendo fight is the last on Jake Shields's contract with Strikeforce. He'd be the ideal match-up for GSP...especially now that he's bulked up and can come closer to matching his size.

[Rob S]

It's been better comp than the other 3 champs have faced. Only the LHW's can really claim to have faced better competition than Fedor, and neither Machida nor Moussasi has done it for long enough to make claims at #1.

Aside from the fact that their opposition is limited only bc they have whooped almost everyone, your still wrong....Fedor has only fought 3 times since 2008 and none of those fight were against top 5 HW opposition. Since 2008, Silva has fought 5 times and has beat Hendo and Forrest at 205 (Both these guys were on some p4p top 10's when Silva ran through them). GSP has also fought 5 times since 2008 and has dominated often top 10 ranked p4p guys in Alves and Fitch, and a p4p stalwart in BJ Penn (don't give me BS about BJ moving up.....their previous fight was competitive and many people were picking BJ, GSP got better and put on an impressive performance against one of the best fighters in the world- don't us the weight to discredit GSP's win, if anything, give BJ props for trying).

Also, Mousasi? High level of competition? You clearly don't know what good comp. looks like. Gergard is amazingly skilled, but his competition SUCKS. He is very active, but has fought like one guy ranked in the divisional top 10 since he started fighting.

I think you have been tuned out of MMA for the past couple of years or so.

[nepg]

Arlovski was #3 or 4 when he fought Fedor. Tim was still a Top 10 HW. He'll fight Werdum in June, and he's #5 or 6.

[Rob S]

Arlovski was #3 or 4 when he fought Fedor. Tim was still a Top 10 HW. He'll fight Werdum in June, and he's #5 or 6.

Arlovski was probably like 5th or 6th, but everyone knew his chin was absolute glass by then. And so what? How does this matter? I just ran down legit top 10 p4p guys that Silva and GSP have fought in the last 2 years. They have been more active and faced better comp. than Fedor the past 2 years and its pretty obvious.

And how the hell is Werdum 5 or 6?....he is yet another borderline top 10 guy.

[Rob S]

I love Fedor too and am somewhat of a PRIDE nuthugger, but you gotta get off Fedor's **** man, the facts just aren't there.

[nepg]

I didn't say Moussasi's faced a high level of competition (his MW comp was on par with Silvas MW comp), but if he stays at LHW, he will.

I'm not a Fedor nut hugger, it's just annoying when people say he hasn't fought anyone because those people don't know who the people he's fought are. They associate good with UFC and since Fedor isn't fighting guys in the UFC, he's fighting guys that aren't good. The reality of the situation is that there's better comp at HW outside of the UFC (though that's starting to change).

Yes, Werdum is 5 or 6. People downgrade him way too much for his loss to Cigano. Turns out that Cigano is legit. His only other losses are to Big Nog, Arlovski, and Sergei (when Sergei 13-1 - only loss being to Big Nog). He's got wins over Napao, Big Foot (who is underrated), and he put Vera out of HW (plus, his career resume is much more impressive).

Arlovski was #3 behind Fedor and Barnett when he fought Fedor. Nog got TKO'd a month earlier by Frank Mir and a staph infection.

[Rob S]

I didn't say Moussasi's faced a high level of competition (his MW comp was on par with Silvas MW comp), but if he stays at LHW, he will.

I'm not a Fedor nut hugger, it's just annoying when people say he hasn't fought anyone because those people don't know who the people he's fought are. They associate good with UFC and since Fedor isn't fighting guys in the UFC, he's fighting guys that aren't good. The reality of the situation is that there's better comp at HW outside of the UFC (though that's starting to change).

Yes, Werdum is 5 or 6. People downgrade him way too much for his loss to Cigano. Turns out that Cigano is legit. His only other losses are to Big Nog, Arlovski, and Sergei (when Sergei 13-1 - only loss being to Big Nog). He's got wins over Napao, Big Foot (who is underrated), and he put Vera out of HW (plus, his career resume is much more impressive).

Arlovski was #3 behind Fedor and Barnett when he fought Fedor. Nog got TKO'd a month earlier by Frank Mir and a staph infection.

Regarding Moussasi: You did say that (or at least thats how it read here:"Only the LHW's can really claim to have faced better competition than Fedor, and neither Machida nor Moussasi has done it for long enough to make claims at #1 (p4p)"), but regardless: Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt, and Dan Henderson are amongst Anderson's victims and are better than anyone Moussasi has ever faced at MW.

With Regards to UFC not having the best HW: This proves your knowledge sucks regarding current MMA. Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS, Mir, and Nog reside in the UFC. Add in guys like Big Country and Kongo and you have the strongest group of HW comp. in the world (probably 5 of the top 6 HW in the world and one, in Lesnar, that most could easily see beating Fedor).

Werdum at 5 is solely your opinion and it is contrary to what most MMA experts believe. Big Foot sucks, his best win might be Justin Eilers and he takes horse steroids.

[nepg]

Werdum is not opinion, contrary to what the "experts" (lol) believe. Aside from stating Big Foot is underrated by the "experts", none of the rankings I've stated have any opinion involved. And with that said, I'll correct myself in that Werdum is 6 or 7 depending on whether you include Barnett or not.

With Regards to UFC not having the best HW: This proves your knowledge sucks regarding current MMA.

The reality of the situation is that there's better comp at HW outside of the UFC (though that's starting to change).

Meaning, when Fedor fought those guys he fought, the UFC heavies were trash. Some of the prospects have become legit top fighters (4 - Cain, Carwin, JDS, Lesnar). Until recently, the UFC had Big Nog, a borderline-retired Couture (who wasn't fighting), Mir, and Napao. The UFC has also started to pick up some of the strong mid-carders that helped make "Outside the UFC" stronger. Like Buentello, Nelson, Rothwell, Yvel, and Cro Cop.

(doesn't add anything to the conversation, but I laughed @ Mir & Kongo)

This has all happened over the course of about a year or less.