MMA Discussion Thread - SPOILERS!

[Tampa 2 4 life]

JDS-Decision
Hughes-UD
Guida-UD
Alves-UD
Sonnen-UD (pulling for the upset)


I think sonnen has a shot in this fight. He will be smart enough to take Silva down. If Henderson and Lutter can do it I think Sonnen will as well. The difference between Sonnen and Henderson/Lutter is that Sonnen wont try to stand and trade w/ SIlva after round 1. And he wont gas terribly like Lutter did after round 1.

Are we forgetting Sonnen-Filho here?

[Ravens1991]

Fihlo>>>>>>>Silva in submissions

[nepg]

Filho might just be plain > Silva (and Anderson used to say as much), but we'll never know. Dude has basically been exiled to Japan since he showed up the way he did in his last WEC fight with Sonnen.

But aside from that, Sonnen's a shittier version of Hendo without KO power for Anderson to fear. Silva's just going to tee-off on this clown, and it's going to be a hilarious beat-down.

[Ravens1991]

yeah Fihlo a few years back possibly could have taken Silva. But Fihlo is all sorts of messed up

[Donno]

Sonnen def Silva via UD (aka lay and pray)
Alves def Fitch via TKO round 1
Dos Anjos def Guida via UD
Hughes def Almeida via TKO round 2
Nelson def Dos Santos via KO round 1 (upset)

[E-Man]

I doubt that a one dimensional guy like Sonnen can implement a gameplan like that against Silva. Silva is the best for a reason, and a lot of that has to do with how smart he is in the cage. His takedown defense is a lot better than people give him credit for. It's not elite like Crocop or GSP, but I think he'll stuff some of Chael's shots.

Even if he did, it'll be Hendo all over again. Hendo didn't throw the game plan out the window guys, Anderson adjusted to where he was going to shoot and beat his ass and stuffed the shots. Same will happen to Chael if he wins the first round on ground and pound. The difference is that Chael's sub defense is not good at all. He's in danger anywhere the fight goes because he'll either get choked out on the ground or knocked out on the feet. Chael is great at what he does, but that's not enough when you're going against Anderson. Anything can happen though, so I'm not saying that Chael has no chance.

Roy has a big chance to win too. His ground game is pretty good, and his striking is decent. He might be the guy that beats JDS on the ground. He's certainly capable of doing it. I don't think he will, but he's not some scrub with no shot.

[fenikz]

lots of rep for a link as always

[Caddy]

I would appreciate one also!

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Me three!!!

[Bengals78]

I might as well get in on the link asking :)
+rep for the first one

[fenikz]

http://atdhe.net/6133/watch-ufc-117-silva-vs-sonnen

[E-Man]

Roy is a warrior! He got his ass beat but kept on coming. JDS will probably learn a ton from this now that he's faced an opponent that doesn't crumble under his will.

[Cicero]

If anyone has an HQ stream I would appreciate the sharing of your link. I have one now, quality is ok.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Lol @ this hyping up of James Toney as a world champion super boxer. He's so washed up, but I guess whatever makes the legions of MMA fanboys(not you guys here, but you know the type of people I mean) happy.

[Bengals78]

WOW.
Matt Hughes is a mans man.

[E-Man]

Wow! Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuughes!!!

[Bengals78]

He was one of my favorite fighters when I first got into this and I hate to say I wrote him off.

[Rob S]

this is a sick link, perfect quality and no lags for me: http://playaslounge.webs.com/rags2richestv.htm

[FuzzyGopher]

If anyone needs a link pm me, I have an awesome one that is basically hd.

[Rob S]

I love Clay Guida, he's f'ing nuts. Good night for fight. Got the Devon Alexander HBO card going on my main TV and UFC here.

[Bengals78]

Guida is a manimal!!!!!

[FuzzyGopher]

Hmm I would call that more of a tapout to strikes than a submission.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Man either Struve sucks or this big guy is a beast.

[FuzzyGopher]

Lol, Herb let that one go on a bit long.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Spoke too soon hah

[MidwayMonster31]

Ballsy comeback by Struve with blood pouring out of his mouth.

[E-Man]

Damn. Struve's lips looked like JJ from Goodtimes, but that was nice that he had the balls to comeback from that beatdown. This is a great card so far.

[jayceheathman]

I love Alves. I hope he wins.

[Cicero]

I hate Fitch. So much. I hope Alves knocks his ***** ass out.

[Bengals78]

I love Alves. I hope he wins.

I hate Alves.
He cheats.
Cant make weight.
And seems like a douche IMO

[FuzzyGopher]

Damn, Fitch's record is insane. His only UFC loss is to GSP, why has he only received one title shot ? Did he **** Dana's wife or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Fitch

[Bengals78]

Damn, Fitch's record is insane. His only UFC loss is to GSP, why has he only received one title shot ? Did he **** Dana's wife or something?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Fitch

He is a Matt Hughes clone. Not exciting. Requires more to get the belt that way.

[Complex]

anyone have a good link so I can watch it?

[jayceheathman]

I hate Alves.
He cheats.
Cant make weight.
And seems like a douche IMO

So I guess you hate GSP for cheating? :)

[Bengals78]

30-27 UD for Fitch - my guess

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Absolute domination. Congrats Fitch, about time he gets another title shot. LOL Rogan quote of the night, "He needs to drop weight and take it easy on the weight training, you don't need those pecs son."

[Bengals78]

So I guess you hate GSP for cheating? :)

I hate him for many reasons. The nipple tweak is only 1.

I do give him credit for admitting he tried to snap Hardy's arm when he wouldnt tap but Hardy kept slipping out. I thought he was afraid to snap it. His last few fights have been underwhelming for a guy considered a P4P great. Same with Silva.

[E-Man]

That's why Fitch is one of the best fighters in the world. He's great at what he does, and there's only one(maybe two in Kos) that could stop him. Call it boring if you want, but to me it's a lot better than seeing amateurs gassing out and throwing haymakers that don't connect.

[Bengals78]

That's why Fitch is one of the best fighters in the world. He's great at what he does, and there's only one(maybe two in Kos) that could stop him. Call it boring if you want, but to me it's a lot better than seeing amateurs gassing out and throwing haymakers that don't connect.

I appreciate Fitch's style because he doesn't just ride it out. He looks to finish. As Rogan said though, he isnt that talented and doesn't always have it in him but he wont ever quit.

[E-Man]

Muther ******* Spider time!:-D

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Sonnen is gonna get shitkicked.

[FuzzyGopher]

Oh ****! Steven Segal, I hope Chael has Chuck Norris in his corner or he is ******!

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Anderson what a pimp, he's got Steven Seagal with him lol, I remember watching that video fo Seagal giving him some lessons.

[LetsGoGiants!]

Anderson is gonna knock him on his *** all night.

[FuzzyGopher]

Silva is going to sub the **** out of him.

[Bengals78]

I think Spider took it lightly...

[FuzzyGopher]

Damn Chael beat the **** out of him but now Silva gets some time to regroup.

[Bengals78]

10-8 Sonnen. Easily.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

What the ****?

[Cicero]

Someone in his corner needs to ******* slap him in the face. GET YOUR ******* HEAD IN THE GAME!

[Bengals78]

Win or Lose, Chael might be my new favorite fighter.

[LetsGoGiants!]

****, this fight is pissing me off. This isn't normal Anderson.

[Caddy]

My internet is so crappy I can't watch it :(

[Bengals78]

My internet is so crappy I can't watch it :(

Sonnen could be up 20-16 right now. I think 20-17.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

****, this fight is pissing me off. This isn't normal Anderson.

Well Sonnen is taking him down at will. Anderson's never faced that.

[Bengals78]

30-26 Sonnen now

[Bengals78]

Fight of the Year.
WOW

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Wow imagine a Sonnen/Okami title fight, least watch card ever.

[jayceheathman]

That cut is bad!

[LetsGoGiants!]

Anderson should have stood up after Sonnen went for the takedown after he got rocked.

[Bengals78]

40-35 Sonnen.
Won every round. First was a 10-8.
Cant wait for this 5th round

[jayceheathman]

Nooooooooooooo Way!!!!

[SeanTaylorRIP]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[E-Man]

Yessssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fenikz]

wow...mother ******* magician

[MidwayMonster31]

Cruelest ending ever.
By this I mean, everything Sonnen did for 23 minutes, taken away in a split second.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Rematch baby can't wait. Wow Sonnen got careless.

[Bengals78]

Wow. Spider is beatable very beatable. Great win.
Amazing fight.
I think in the end, the winner is Sonnen.

[LetsGoGiants!]

Yeah baby!

[E-Man]

Man you guys have NO idea how happy I am. That was..........wow! YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FuzzyGopher]

My internet went out in the 2nd round and it just came back on. FML

[Bengals78]

Amazing show of class by Silva.

[Caddy]

Someone explain!

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Anderson is a humble guy. Even though he got beat bad, he could easily be a dick head to Sonnen right now.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Wow. Spider is beatable very beatable. Great win.
Amazing fight.
I think in the end, the winner is Sonnen.

No not at all.

[Cicero]

Anderson Silva = dat dude.

[Complex]

OMG! Silva

What a comebackk

[Bengals78]

Someone explain!

Sonnen pounded the piss out of Silva for 4 rounds. With like 2 minutes left, he got caught in a triangle and right as it seemed he was out of it, he tapped. Epic

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Nog bro's bjj!

[E-Man]

Damn that was going to be the most heart wrenching loss for me as a Spider fan, but man he found a way and came back and won. Man that's why I love this sport. Great comebacks like that are exciting as ****!

[jayceheathman]

Someone explain!

Silva was getting destroyed for all 4 rounds and with about a minute and a half left he pulls off a triangle for the victory.

[Bengals78]

At first I thought Chael slipped it and was grabbing the leg. The replay showed tap.
I wonder how much of that is trained reaction from grappling sessions. He looked fine and both kept going.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Anderson's gonna bring in a hell of a lot of wrestlers in his camp.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Lmao is this real? I get pissed and turn it off and Spider wins? ****.

[Bengals78]

Lmao is this real? I get pissed and turn it off and Spider wins? ****.

You missed the best fight of the year.

[LetsGoGiants!]

Wow. Spider is beatable very beatable. Great win.
Amazing fight.
I think in the end, the winner is Sonnen.

It's quite the opposite actually.

[soybean]

um... can someone tell me who that girl is in the back? http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0806/mma_a_silva_sonnen_b1_576.jpg

[Rob S]

Anderson Silva, giving me the early b-day present. Love it.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Anderson needs to drop Munoz as his wrestling coach, jk, lol.

Haha love Anderson shouting out the Nog brothers bjj coaching since Chael said the Nog's were frauds.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

You missed the best fight of the year.

I watched up until he was taken down in the 5th. I saw all of Chael's dominance though in the first ~4.5.

Maybe it's cuz I'm partial to Brock, but I think his fight vs. Carwin was better than this one. Then again, I didn't catch the finish to this one.

[Bengals78]

It's quite the opposite actually.

How?
If Sonnen had better BJJ, he would have just had another 10-8 round in a five round beat down of the most dominating champ ever in the UFC.
He gained a **** ton of fans tonight.
He has the skills to beat Silva.
He will get a rematch and I think he takes it.
Sonnen showed, if you are the aggressor early, you can get on him later. Silva was quite gun-shy after being rocked in round 1. Opened up the takedown.

Silva obviously got the W. But in terms of bettering their career, gaining fans and having the edge in a rematch, I give it to Sonnen.

[Ravens1991]

****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am pissed, but this fight showed why wrestling is the best base for MMA. and why MMA is the most exciting sport out there.

It seemed like Sonnen only tapped once I am kind of shocked they stopped the fight.

[Bengals78]

I watched up until he was taken down in the 5th. I saw all of Chael's dominance though in the first ~4.5.

Maybe it's cuz I'm partial to Brock, but I think his fight vs. Carwin was better than this one. Then again, I didn't catch the finish to this one.

Gotcha. I owe you rep for the link but I have to wait.

[Bengals78]

****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am pissed, but this fight showed why wrestling is the best base for MMA. and why MMA is the most exciting sport out there.

It seemed like Sonnen only tapped once I am kind of shocked they stopped the fight.

I thought it was a slip at first. But replay showed a tap.
I think a 3 tap rule should be put in. Avoid any confusion.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

This fight was almost like King Mo/Moussasi. I hate his guts but have to give props to Sonnen. He deserves a rematch ASAP. Unfortunately I don't feel a bit sorry for him with the crap he talked.

[Bengals78]

This fight was almost like King Mo/Moussasi. I hate his guts but have to give props to Sonnen. He deserves a rematch ASAP. Unfortunately I don't feel a bit sorry for him with the crap he talked.

I think the smack talk is show. I mean, he is Chael Sonnen. Before tonight who knew about him? How many people tuned in to watch Silva destroy him?
I dont think the smack talk will be as bad in the rematch.

[Ravens1991]

no casual fan would have watched if it wasnt for Sonnen trash talk. He is by far the best and funniest trash talker I have ever seen. I love Sonnen. I am sad that he lost

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I think the smack talk is show. I mean, he is Chael Sonnen. Before tonight who knew about him? How many people tuned in to watch Silva destroy him?
I dont think the smack talk will be as bad in the rematch.

I understand trash talking to hype a fight like Brock and Mir but when you start getting stupid like calling the Nog's frauds and calling an all time great like Big Nog UFC's punching bag, that's beyond hyping a fight with Anderson. Poetic justice that Silva tapped him.

The Rematch though is going to be fire, can't wait. Sonnen will be more focused, Anderson will game plan better, fireworks!!!

[ccB]

um... can someone tell me who that girl is in the back? http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0806/mma_a_silva_sonnen_b1_576.jpg

Arianny Celeste

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Oh and I forgot Penn+Edgar this month, can't wait. I'm just waiting to when I can see the Phil Davis fight.

[soybean]

Arianny Celeste

I'm in love.

[Ravens1991]

I understand trash talking to hype a fight like Brock and Mir but when you start getting stupid like calling the Nog's frauds and calling an all time great like Big Nog UFC's punching bag, that's beyond hyping a fight with Anderson. Poetic justice that Silva tapped him.

The Rematch though is going to be fire, can't wait. Sonnen will be more focused, Anderson will game plan better, fireworks!!!

I think we will see Silva more focused. I think Silva will win the match up.


Maybe Sonnen talked so much trash Silva thought it was all a big joke and instead of getting pissed he just laughed at it. I think this will light a fire under the spider and the spider wins the re match

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Silva needs to work better and keeping distance and not closing in unless he absolutely can finish the fight. He'll probably end up in his guard again, he needs to work the elbows earlier in the fight. A fight like this will only make Silva more dangerous though than if he ko'ed Sonnen in the first. And I don't get when people say Silva has been exposed and now there is a game plan to beat him, Sonnen is a one of a kind wrestler in his weight class, no one else could control Anderson like that.

[E-Man]

I gotta give Sonnen props. He put on a clinic against Anderson like nobody ever has. That's the type of things that make you champion. On any other night he would've ended the greatest UFC championship reign in history, but tonight he got caught. There should be a rematch, but considering how Anderson looked tonight there might not be. If he fights Vitor that same way he'll get knocked out. Hopefully it really is just a rib injury because if father time has caught up to him he's not keeping that belt by the end of the year.

[Rob S]

Mad props to Sonnen, but whoever said Anderson was gun shy after the 1st is wrong. Anderson was moving nicely on his feet (when he was upright) for most of the fight and if anything increased his work rate on his feet as the rounds progressed. He just couldn't stay upright. If they did stay on their feet for all 5 rounds (despite the success Sonnen had), I have little doubt Anderson would have caught him eventually.

[Ravens1991]

I love team quest but Sonnen should go to brazil for like 6 months and train sub defense. Because he could easily be a undefeated fighter right now if he had sub defense right now.

[ccB]

I'm in love.

5HH9g5-VIuw

[E-Man]

Either way it goes, I don't want Chael to retire. He's clearly an elite guy at 185 for beating Okami, Nate, and owning Anderson for 4.5 rounds before the sub. If there's no immediate rematch like Edgar and Penn, then he should only have to fight and win once to get another title shot.

[Bengals78]

Mad props to Sonnen, but whoever said Anderson was gun shy after the 1st is wrong. Anderson was moving nicely on his feet (when he was upright) for most of the fight and if anything increased his work rate on his feet as the rounds progressed. He just couldn't stay upright. If they did stay on their feet for all 5 rounds (despite the success Sonnen had), I have little doubt Anderson would have caught him eventually.

It took Silva until the 3rd to really let loose again. Until then Sonnen took him down at will because Silva wasn't engaging.
I was simply saying, the fact that he didnt use his normal aggressive approach after he got tagged, allowed Sonnen to shoot easier. He was moving nice but never tried to close the distance for a round or 2.

[LetsGoGiants!]

How?
If Sonnen had better BJJ, he would have just had another 10-8 round in a five round beat down of the most dominating champ ever in the UFC.
He gained a **** ton of fans tonight.
He has the skills to beat Silva.
He will get a rematch and I think he takes it.
Sonnen showed, if you are the aggressor early, you can get on him later. Silva was quite gun-shy after being rocked in round 1. Opened up the takedown.

Silva obviously got the W. But in terms of bettering their career, gaining fans and having the edge in a rematch, I give it to Sonnen.

Yes, but how does getting fans or having the edge in a match that hasn't happened or may not happen make you win in a night where you've lost a fight. I understand what your saying, but if I were Sonnen, I'd feel like **** tonight after loosing and feel like I've won nothing.

[Bengals78]

Either way it goes, I don't want Chael to retire. He's clearly an elite guy at 185 for beating Okami, Nate, and owning Anderson for 4.5 rounds before the sub. If there's no immediate rematch like Edgar and Penn, then he should only have to fight and win once to get another title shot.

If he retires:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ggo9_VVtU0Y/SdzDL55oXpI/AAAAAAAAAk8/yu0ti7uawsE/s400/ihasamega128627047974349078.jpg

If this is an immediate rematch, IDK what is.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Dana's saying he's basically gonna force Alves to fight 185.

[Bengals78]

Yes, but how does getting fans or having the edge in a match that hasn't happened or may not happen make you win in a night where you've lost a fight. I understand what your saying, but if I were Sonnen, I'd feel like **** tonight after loosing and feel like I've won nothing.

That is probably why Chael just beat the piss out of a guy considered the P4P best in all of MMA for 4.5 rounds and you post here.

[Bengals78]

Dana's saying he's basically gonna force Alves to fight 185.

Good. If he cant make weight without the diuretic, he should move up. Im all for dropping weight but it was obviously too much for Alves.

[LetsGoGiants!]

Dana's saying he's basically gonna force Alves to fight 185.

Good. Everything Joe Rogan said appeared true tonight.

[Ravens1991]

STRIP, Alves TDD wasnt there like usual. I agree it has to be 185 for Alves.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Thaigo+Leben should be made.

[LetsGoGiants!]

That is probably why Chael just beat the piss out of a guy considered the P4P best in all of MMA for 4.5 rounds and you post here.

Yeah cause in the post fight press conference, he's going to be peachy as hell for what he did tonight. He should feel proud, but he won nothing tonight. Maybe fans, but I'm sure he'd rather have the belt.

[Toan]

Sonnen just pulled a Rosencopter!!

[Bengals78]

Over under on Alves failing to make weight?
Weighs in at 186?

[Bengals78]

epic martian-train-crash-on-Jupiter failure.

I bet you were one of the guys chanting Silva Silva Silva, then switching to USA; Sonnen 2 minutes later.

Uh no.
I picked Sonnen to win. So you fail.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Over under on Alves failing to make weight?
Weighs in at 186?

186 would be fine, lol.

[Bengals78]

Yeah cause in the post fight press conference, he's going to be peachy as hell for what he did tonight. He should feel proud, but he won nothing tonight. Maybe fans, but I'm sure he'd rather have the belt.

You dont think he is gonna be at home thinking, man I had that fight. I cant wait for the rematch and take it?
Seriously. What kind of attitude is that for a fighter to have. Oh I lost, I should probably not fight him again. It's not like I wasnt pounding his ass for the whole fight before I got caught in a triangle. That is a losers mentality. Sonnen did what virtually no one thought he could do. 1. He made it past the 1st. 2. He straight dominated Silva for 4.5 rounds. 3. Until the sub, he showed great defense.

[jayceheathman]

um... can someone tell me who that girl is in the back? http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0806/mma_a_silva_sonnen_b1_576.jpg

Joe Rogen.

[Bengals78]

186 would be fine, lol.

186.5 ;)
I understand not making weight once.
But come on, after the first time you should know to change your training or something. Lift less, do more running. Become more lean not bulky like Joe said, you dont need those pecs lol. Start cutting a little early. Something.

[jayceheathman]

Sonnen just pulled a Rosencopter!!

haha Dont remind me of that game.

[Bengals78]

Joe Rogen.

He is hawt sawce.
Gotta love anyone with the chemical make up of THC tattooed on his arm.

[Toan]

um... can someone tell me who that girl is in the back? http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2010/0806/mma_a_silva_sonnen_b1_576.jpg

Her name escapes my mind, but I believe she specializes in the 'Hyakuretsu Kyaku' kicks and holds a strong grudge against a guy named Bison.

[LetsGoGiants!]

You dont think he is gonna be at home thinking, man I had that fight. I cant wait for the rematch and take it?
Seriously. What kind of attitude is that for a fighter to have. Oh I lost, I should probably not fight him again. It's not like I wasnt pounding his ass for the whole fight before I got caught in a triangle. That is a losers mentality. Sonnen did what virtually no one thought he could do. 1. He made it past the 1st. 2. He straight dominated Silva for 4.5 rounds. 3. Until the sub, he showed great defense.

I think we agree on a lot of the things he did, it just sounds like your saying that Anderson is a looser and Sonnen feels like he's he best fighter. He probably feels like **** cause he lost a heart breaker. And when you say the winner is Sonnen, that makes no sense because he LOST this fight.

[Bengals78]

I think we agree on a lot of the things he did, it just sounds like your saying that Anderson is a looser and Sonnen feels like he's he best fighter. He probably feels like **** cause he lost a heart breaker. And when you say the winner is Sonnen, that makes no sense because he LOST this fight.

I think Anderson kneeling at Sonnen's feet kinda makes me think he knows he got his ass whooped and probably SHOULD have lost that fight. And I doubt he will feel much like a winner tomorrow.

When I say Sonnen is a winner, I mean outside the ring. He will win a lot in the eyes of fans and other fighters. More importantly, who did Dana White run to right after the fight? Sonnen. Sonnen was the better fighter. But he got caught. Silva won the fight yes, but by no means is Chael a loser all around.
I am speaking beyond a piece of paper here.

[jayceheathman]

I think Sonnen heard the boos from the fans when he had the mount and wasnt doing much other than wasting time for a little bit. The second the boos started he went in for more punches and got caught.

[FuzzyGopher]

186.5 ;)
I understand not making weight once.
But come on, after the first time you should know to change your training or something. Lift less, do more running. Become more lean not bulky like Joe said, you dont need those pecs lol. Start cutting a little early. Something.

Dana ripped him in the press conference and said it was ******** that he can't make weight.

[LetsGoGiants!]

I think Anderson kneeling at Sonnen's feet kinda makes me think he knows he got his ass whooped and probably SHOULD have lost that fight. And I doubt he will feel much like a winner tomorrow.

When I say Sonnen is a winner, I mean outside the ring. He will win a lot in the eyes of fans and other fighters. More importantly, who did Dana White run to right after the fight? Sonnen. Sonnen was the better fighter. But he got caught. Silva won the fight yes, but by no means is Chael a loser all around.
I am speaking beyond a piece of paper here.

I feel he's gained confidence and fans definitely. But he still lost and he probably is heart broken over it. That's what I mean by he felt like ****. I think I understand what you mean know by him "winning".

[Bengals78]

Dana ripped him in the press conference and said it was ******** that he can't make weight.

I heard. Good for Dana. He is a great business man. Publicly taking it to these guys is the best way sometime.
Loved how he handled the Paul Daley situation too.

[Bengals78]

I feel he's gained confidence and fans definitely. But he still lost and he probably is heart broken over it. That's what I mean by he felt like ****. I think I understand what you mean know by him "winning".

Yeah. I never meant he should have the W on the record but, tomorrow ask who feels like the winner, I bet neither say yes but Chael will feel a whole lot better saying it.

[Rob S]

Nah, Anderson will feel like a winner. He won the fight completely fairly. It was a stoppage and stoppages are a huge part of MMA. He should, and will be, disappointed in his performance, but he still knows he won and Sonnen would have had an arm broken or passed out had the fight continued.

Now, if you meant literally "feel". Then, yeah, Anderson is gonna feel like death.

[Bengals78]

Nah, Anderson will feel like a winner. He won the fight completely fairly. It was a stoppage and stoppages are a huge part of MMA. He should, and will be, disappointed in his performance, but he still knows he won and Sonnen would have had an arm broken or passed out had the fight continued.

Now, if you meant literally "feel". Then, yeah, Anderson is gonna feel like death.

Anderson will feel like hell physically and mentally. He won. But he got his **** stomped for 4.5 rounds. He will be a winner yes, but I dont see him going around like "Wooo I won."

I think it would be more like, "I won, but God damn, winning shouldn't feel like this"

[Bengals78]

Lost in all of this is the fact that Matt Hughes went all beast mode on Almeida.

[jayceheathman]

Lost in all of this is the fact that Matt Hughes went all beast mode on Almeida.

And the fact that Alves got dominated. :(

[Bengals78]

Amazing card overall.
Every fight was exciting and all the aspects of MMA were on full display tonight.

[fenikz]

My friend pointed this out while drinking, who do you think did the most damage in the fight?

after watching it again despite Sonnen's complete dominance, Silva somehow did more damage off his back and the few moments he was standing than Sonnen did in his "efforts" on top

[nepg]

Ya, Silva had him in zombie mode but for some ******** reason tried to take him down and work a sub from the top... Silva should have learned from Mousassi's efforts against King Mo... Just stand up and beat his ass, don't put yourself in a position to be taken down.

[bernbabybern820]

Im surprised Silva didn't triangle him sooner. He basically had Sonnen's right arm controlled and tucked in the entire 4th and 5th rounds. It looked like Sonnen was basically giving it to him in the 5th.

[Ravens1991]

My friend pointed this out while drinking, who do you think did the most damage in the fight?

after watching it again despite Sonnen's complete dominance, Silva somehow did more damage off his back and the few moments he was standing than Sonnen did in his "efforts" on top

It was just 1 elbow though. And sonnen didnt lay and pray like he has done before.

[AHungryWalrus]

Im surprised Silva didn't triangle him sooner. He basically had Sonnen's right arm controlled and tucked in the entire 4th and 5th rounds. It looked like Sonnen was basically giving it to him in the 5th.

Yeah, something about this fight just didn't feel right. With how easily the (probably) quickest man in UFC was taken down, how lackadaisical he looked most of the time, whatever. Not saying he was intentionally not trying for the first 4 rounds, but there were so many things that a legit Anderson Silva would have taken advantage of easily, that he simply passed up.

Maybe the rib injury really messed him up?

[Rob S]

Fenikz, I would have easily rather of been Sonnen from a damage aspect. Silva certainly responded well to being hit, but he got hit with some bombs on the ground.

[Bengals78]

Fenikz, I would have easily rather of been Sonnen from a damage aspect. Silva certainly responded well to being hit, but he got hit with some bombs on the ground.

For sure. Id rather have 1 cut and a few scratches from the leather of the gloves (happens a lot) than take some of those bombs on the ground. Silva did a great job keeping his head moving so Sonnen couldnt just tee off with non stop bombs on the floor.

And I have to say props to Sonnen for not pulling a Carwin and gassing in 5 minutes.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Well Sonnen is one of the best conditioned fighters plus he is 185 pounds. Carwin is so massive and has so much muscle it's understandable that he'd gas early with the energy he expended even if he does a lot of cardio training. Plus Carwin was going all out. Sonnen was maintaining position. While he landed a bunch of bombs Silva did a good job at controlling him, half of the match his punches were from such close distance and had no power behind them they didn't damage Silva much. BTW Lol at the ear slaps. That rings your bell for sure but he could have done that for an entire round and it would be more of an annoyance to Silva than anything.

[Hollywood]

How?
If Sonnen had better BJJ, he would have just had another 10-8 round in a five round beat down of the most dominating champ ever in the UFC.
He gained a **** ton of fans tonight.
He has the skills to beat Silva.
He will get a rematch and I think he takes it.
Sonnen showed, if you are the aggressor early, you can get on him later. Silva was quite gun-shy after being rocked in round 1. Opened up the takedown.

Silva obviously got the W. But in terms of bettering their career, gaining fans and having the edge in a rematch, I give it to Sonnen.


This is such a dumb ******* post and totally not worth reading after 'if Sonnen had better BJJ'.

[Hollywood]

You dont think he is gonna be at home thinking, man I had that fight. I cant wait for the rematch and take it?
Seriously. What kind of attitude is that for a fighter to have. Oh I lost, I should probably not fight him again. It's not like I wasnt pounding his ass for the whole fight before I got caught in a triangle. That is a losers mentality. Sonnen did what virtually no one thought he could do. 1. He made it past the 1st. 2. He straight dominated Silva for 4.5 rounds. 3. Until the sub, he showed great defense.


He should be thinking he just gave a guy his absolute best, could not possibly be any better and yet still lost by weakly tapping with a minute and a half left. It's nobodies fault but his own. Learn how to fight BJJ and you wouldn't have such a mediocre record with 11 losses.

[Hollywood]

Just to clarify my last couple posts, I don't understand the love for Sonnen right now. Did he handily win the first 4 rounds? Absolutely but when you don't do your job (and learn from your past 9-10 mistakes!) and fail to execute in the last couple minutes of a fight, that really should be all that matters.

He is the loser and I hate this idea that is floating around that it is some sort of moral victory. If anything it makes me less of a fan knowing this guy is dumb enough to lost the same ******* way so many times and not learn from it and makes me gain even more respect for the best fighter in the world.

Watch what happens in the rematch when a true champ like Silva learns from his mistakes and actually improves from them. I admire that more than winning rounds.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Yep while unfortunate for him being so close to the finish line, him getting tapped out was not a fluke or lucky, if anything it could have happened much earlier. Anyone who's watched Sonnen's career knows that he's blown several fights by being unable to guard submissions.

[nepg]

Sonnen got caught, but there wasn't too much he could else he could do. He had to keep the fight on the ground because he was starting to get tagged hard on the feet, and in order for him to keep it on the ground, he had to keep working. Just a great fight. Nothing more.

[Ravens1991]

About Alves his reach is 69.5 inches and he is 5'9. He should lose some muscle and stay 170.

[nepg]

Ya, that guy's in a bad spot. We've already seen that he's not able to match up with guys who are naturally bigger than him with Fitch and GSP... If anything, he needs to go down a class, but that's just impossible at this point.

[fenikz]

It was just 1 elbow though. And sonnen didnt lay and pray like he has done before.

nah he was wrecking him in the 3rd or 4th when they were standing, Sonnen could of been KOed at any moment

and it was more or less LnP after the 1st round, he wasn't attempting to finish him

[Rob S]

Ya, that guy's in a bad spot. We've already seen that he's not able to match up with guys who are naturally bigger than him with Fitch and GSP... If anything, he needs to go down a class, but that's just impossible at this point.

Fitch and GSP are not bigger than Alves. Unless you mean height, that is. He should stick at 170 tho, just dump some muscle.

[nepg]

Yes, height. GSP and Fitch are naturally bigger than him. GSP outweighs him, too. Fitch has far more functional strength and doesn't come in to the actual fight much lighter than Alves. Along with Shields now, those are two of the only guys that are highly skilled that have a real advantage over Alves in the size department at WW. So, ya, Dana's being silly by saying he needs to go to 185. He'd get wrecked there.

[Brent]

About Alves his reach is 69.5 inches and he is 5'9. He should lose some muscle and stay 170.
I dont know if he could lose any more weight/muscle.

[Rob S]

I dont know if he could lose any more weight/muscle.

He can dump some muscle, his arms are huge. Before the fight he probably couldn't, but we are saying for the future.

[Ravens1991]

True by fat and water weight I dont think he can. But if he stopped lifting then he maybe able to lose the necessary weight. He looked almost dead out there. He used to have elite TDD but it wasnt threre against Fitch.

[Brent]

Roy Nelson vs. Dos Santos: I really dont like Dos Santos because he seems like a douche (who points at the ring when they're saying your name like that?), but he was laying a beating on Nelson. I kept waiting for Dos Santos to throw an uppercut after one of Roy's "swinging for the fences" punches. What's ridiculous is watching Roy take hit after hit after hit and I'm sitting there thinking, "how good could he be if he actually lost that weight?"

Matt Hughes vs. Ricardo Almeida: What can you say? How ******* awesome is Matt Hughes?

Clay Guida vs. Dos Anjos: with the speed these two throw punches at, I was hoping it was going to be a bunch of striking. Glad to see Guida winning, either way. Also, broken jaw: good lord that has to hurt.

Jon Fitch vs. Thiago Alves: Alves looked out of it (I guess because of the weight loss stuff they were talking about), but Fitch was looking really good. Outside a few takes downs on Fitch's part, that was a pretty boring fight.

Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen: Chael came out with a ******* vengeance. The first four rounds definitely went to Sonnen, he looked awesome. I hate that's how it ended. I still dont even know it that was meant to be a tap. Either way, that was a crazy fight.

[Ravens1991]

It was a tap no doubt, but it was only 1 tap. Then Sonnen looked confused like maybe he tapped once and then said "**** it Ill either pass out or get out of this triangle". But when the ref stopped I guess he didnt want to complain like the first fihlo fight.

[Brent]

It was a tap no doubt, but it was only 1 tap. Then Sonnen looked confused like maybe he tapped once and then said "**** it Ill either pass out or get out of this triangle". But when the ref stopped I guess he didnt want to complain like the first fihlo fight.
Fair enough, either way, it was kind of anti-climatic because they kept saying "silva could get out of this blah blah blah" and then it happened.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

He should be thinking he just gave a guy his absolute best, could not possibly be any better and yet still lost by weakly tapping with a minute and a half left. It's nobodies fault but his own. Learn how to fight BJJ and you wouldn't have such a mediocre record with 11 losses.

I agree with this. That fight went exactly how it went in every one of Silva's nightmares. But he still won. He's still the winner. Sure, Sonnen got some fickle bandwagoners to jump on him, but they all probably jumped off as soon as Silva sunk that triangle in.

I really don't have any sympathy for Sonnen at all. He talked mad **** to the greatest champion in the UFC, the best fighter in the world, and it blew up in his face with an embarassing loss.

[ccB]

Team Quest is notorious for quick taps then playing them off like they didn't happen, Matt Lindland (who was Chael's cornerman) did it during his fight with Murilo Bustamante, and it worked to his advantage, instead of having the fight ended, the Ref stood them up (Bustamante went on to win though)

I think Anderson was aware of how they roll and that's why he didn't let go right away.

[nepg]

I don't think it was a genuine tap, but it didn't matter. He was going to sleep - and was probably going to wake up with a broken arm - if they didn't stop the fight right then.

[E-Man]

Alves isn't really the right build to be a middleweight, but he's put himself in that situation by gaining so much weight. That's all fine and dandy as long as you can still make weight, and he's missed weight twice now in some high profile fights. If Dana forces him to 185 it would be bad for his career, but Alves should get his **** together and not miss weight. I'd say to give him a third chance, but it he messes that up he can't be taken seriously as a contender to the title again. They have weight classes for a reason.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

Anyone know if there is any truth to him having a messed up rib? I felt like from the start of the fight Silva looked slow and not really into the fight. Just didn't look like the same Silva.

[nepg]

I'm sure it's true, I just think it's a ***** move to say anything about pre-fight injuries in a post-fight interview. Silva did look bothered by it, and he came into the fight lighter and smaller-looking than I've ever seen him.

[RAVENS/WIZARDS/ORIOLES]

He looked like something was bothering him and I was so confused watching him. I would def love to see a rematch even though Sonnen didn't seem so up for it when they asked him

[Donno]

I honestly don't know why Chael tapped, of course he wasn't breathing or anything but when you have that much on the line you should fight it off until you pass out.

[nepg]

He looked like something was bothering him and I was so confused watching him. I would def love to see a rematch even though Sonnen didn't seem so up for it when they asked him

Sonnen put everything he had into that fight. The idea of doing it again probably wasn't the most pleasant thought going through his mind after the loss.

[Rob S]

I honestly don't know why Chael tapped, of course he wasn't breathing or anything but when you have that much on the line you should fight it off until you pass out.

Thats utterly stupid, even more so because Silva had transitioned to an armbar and was about to snap that *****.

[E-Man]

http://mmarecap.com/news/UFC_123_Likely_Headed_To_United_Center_In_Chicago_ Illinois-2458

MMA Recap (www.mmarecap.com) has learned from several sources that the UFC is likely headed back to Chicago for UFC 123. According to sources, a deal has not been finalized mainly due to rules and regulations by the state with regards to how far in advance a promotion can declare an event. Those same sources have indicated that the event will be held at the United Center and will probably be headlined by two light-heavyweight fights: Lyoto Machida versus Quinton Jackson and Jon Jones versus Forrest Griffin.

If the UFC does in deed come back to Chicago for UFC 123 it will be the second time the city has played host to the organization. UFC 90 took place at the Allstate Arena in November of 2008. Unlike the previous trip, the venue is scheduled to be the United Center, which plays home to both the Chicago Bulls and Chicago Blackhawks.

The United Center can house over 23,000 fans when set up for concerts and the UFC will likely exceed that capacity.

The only fights rumored at this point for the event are the Jackson-Machida and Jones-Griffin fights.

Stay tuned to MMA Recap for the latest on this story as it unfolds.

I don't know how reliable this source is, but if true this will be a really good test for Jones. Forrest could really tear his legs up with kicks all night.

[FuzzyGopher]

That has the making of a pretty sick card if those rumors are true. I think Lyoto will pick apart Rampage and Forrest is a great test for Jones.

[fenikz]

Someone on Rogan/Redban's show today brought up the possibility of Jon Jones vs Anderson Silva, if Silva sticks around for another year that could be such an amazing fight

[MidwayMonster31]

The card for UFC 123 sounds like fun. I hope Clay Guida gets into that one. He's a local boy, and will get a ton of fan support. It is going to be during the circus trip, so there will be a lot of commotion during the day.
As for picks, I think Rampage is done, Machida will have the same resurgence that many other greats have had after losing their first fights.
Jones-Griffin will be very tough for Jones, since Griffin is very tough against takedowns and can take him into a slugfest. I want to say that Griffin will win, but we'll see how Jones improves from fight to fight.

[Ravens1991]

Rampage is too slow and not technical enough for Machida. Machida will tear him a new one. Not a KO but a dominant decision.


I am pumped for GRiffin Jones. A great test for Jones. I wonder how long he can still make 205. His style can give anyone problems it will be interesting to see Forrests gameplan. And to see if Greg Jackson will differ his gameplan from the one Rashad used a while back.

[Hollywood]

Jones will win within the first two rounds (probably the first) against Forrest. Don't care that he may be inexperienced, IMO he is a top 5 fighter in the world right now and will soon be considered the GOAT in this sport.

Such a unique set of skills combined with the proper training ethic.

[BlindSite]

Jon Jones at this point wouldn't get past Machida or Shogun, so lets not anoint him as the GOAT just yet. He hasn't beaten anyone in the top 10 at LHW.

The Forrest fight rumor is an interesting one, he didn't seem too keen on facing jones as it's a bad stylistic match up for him on paper. Maybe, but I won't believe it till it's signed like the Rampage Machida fight has been.

[Bengals78]

Jones will win within the first two rounds (probably the first) against Forrest. Don't care that he may be inexperienced, IMO he is a top 5 fighter in the world right now and will soon be considered the GOAT in this sport.

Such a unique set of skills combined with the proper training ethic.

How?
That is like declaring Suh the best DT in the NFL because of how he played at Nebraska and that he has such a unique skill set.

Bones' best win: Brandon Vera.
When Vera is a fighters best win, he can't be anywhere close to top 5.
His other UFC wins:
Stephan Bonnar - Nothing special here. Solid win but just that.
Vladimir Matyushenko - Beat up an old dude who didn't seem into the fight.
Jake O'Brien - Garbage.
Andre Gusamo - Not UFC caliber. Solid fighter but nothing to hang JBJ's coat on.

Let's see him fight top comp first.

[nepg]

He beat Hamill, too. Should have been an NC instead of DQ, imo. Not that I think Hamill's a great opponent, but the guy is clearly ready to move up and fight more Top 10 guys (Vera is borderline Top 10).

[Bengals78]

He beat Hamill, too. Should have been an NC instead of DQ, imo. Not that I think Hamill's a great opponent, but the guy is clearly ready to move up and fight more Top 10 guys (Vera is borderline Top 10).

No it should not be a NC.
A fight ending due to illegal strikes is a DQ. That is why they have rules.
This isn't Nam.
Vera was never borderline top 10 for 205. He was sluggish and tired looking since moving out of HW.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

You have to look past more than just who he's beaten. Who the hell has been able to throw Jake O'Brien, Brandon Vera, Matt Hamill, and Maty like rag dolls? No one. Randy Couture couldn't even take down Vera in a 3 round fight that he would have lost if it weren't for his name. Bones had Vera on the ground in seconds. He might not be a great fighter but Jake O'Brien is a strong as MoFo who is a good wrestler. No one's ever been able to control Hamill. It's not just about who he's beaten but it's the fact that he's outwrestled guys who are considered great MMA wrestlers. Also Hamill was done before the illegal elbows so yes it's a loss and no one can argue that but to think Hamill would have got out of that situation is ridiculous.

[Bengals78]

So that makes him a top 5 LHW? Being able to out wrestle mediocre fighters with good wrestling backgrounds?

Bones is a great prospect but he is not top 5. Could he be? Sure. But he hasn't even fought a top ten LHW.

[FuzzyGopher]

I just realized that if Forrest fights in November it will have been a year since his last fight. I'm a believer of ring rust so I think that could play a big factor in how he performs.

[Hollywood]

How?
That is like declaring Suh the best DT in the NFL because of how he played at Nebraska and that he has such a unique skill set.

Bones' best win: Brandon Vera.
When Vera is a fighters best win, he can't be anywhere close to top 5.
His other UFC wins:
Stephan Bonnar - Nothing special here. Solid win but just that.
Vladimir Matyushenko - Beat up an old dude who didn't seem into the fight.
Jake O'Brien - Garbage.
Andre Gusamo - Not UFC caliber. Solid fighter but nothing to hang JBJ's coat on.

Let's see him fight top comp first.

nah. It's more like saying Suh is a top 5 DT in the league after say 8 games in the NFL where he dominates. Yes he hasn't proven much, but when I say top 5 I mean would I take him and four others over any other DT in the league and yes...I would.

Same with Jones. Sure he hasn't fought a top level guy yet, but I just truly believe his skills are high enough that there isn't many in his weight class he would have trouble with. And I would absolutely put my money on Jones against any fighter in his weight class except a healthy shogun and Silva, and even in that scenario I would simply just not bet on the fight.

[Bengals78]

nah. It's more like saying Suh is a top 5 DT in the league after say 8 games in the NFL where he dominates. Yes he hasn't proven much, but when I say top 5 I mean would I take him and four others over any other DT in the league and yes...I would.

Same with Jones. Sure he hasn't fought a top level guy yet, but I just truly believe his skills are high enough that there isn't many in his weight class he would have trouble with. And I would absolutely put my money on Jones against any fighter in his weight class except a healthy shogun and Silva, and even in that scenario I would simply just not bet on the fight.

What are your other 4?
Thats just the AFCN
Shaun Rogers
Casey Hampton
Haloti Ngata
Domata Peko

LHW I would consider better than Jones:
Shogun
Page
Machida
Evans
Lawal
Mousasi

I would put Jones on the tier of fighters like T. Silva and Ryan Bader. Great records but either haven't fought the best comp or haven't BEATEN the best comp

[Hollywood]

I think you are having a problem with differentiating between 'better' and 'more established'. So if Jon Jones is fighting Rampage Jackson you are putting your money on Rampage?

[Bengals78]

If the fight was tomorrow? Yes I would put my money on Page.
But I am also not a gambling man...anymore.

[nepg]

No it should not be a NC.
A fight ending due to illegal strikes is a DQ. That is why they have rules.
This isn't Nam.
Vera was never borderline top 10 for 205. He was sluggish and tired looking since moving out of HW.

Jones was beating the **** out of him. There was no way Hamill was getting out of that spot, and the only reason the fight ended is because of the way he was coming down with those elbows...which is no more dangerous or damaging than a legal elbow...it just looks worse. Jones was landing everything he threw from that spot. If the result of the fight was up in the air if not for the "illegal" strikes, sure, DQ. But it was obvious Jones could do whatever he wanted to Hamill and just chose the "illegal" style of elbows. NC.

Vera had edged himself back into the Top 10 in UFC's 205 division after a nice performance against Randy Couture which Vera clearly won (wtf judges?). Vera was finally looking like he was getting back on track in the Couture fight, then Jones tore him apart.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

I remember watching Bones' loss. It was like he was looking at the ref and saying, "what is it gonna take for you to push me off of this guy?" while repeatedly punching Hamill in the face. Then he threw some elbows hoping that would end it.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I love Bader and think his potential is crazy with his super powerful right hand and elite wrestling. But he's no where near Bones right now. Bones has embarrassed all of his opponents. Bader's 3 post TUF fights in the UFC, 2 decisions against Carmelo Marrero, and Eric Schaffer, and a 3rd round KO of Keith Jardine. Bader hasn't been able to finish low tier fighters. IMO Bader is on the same level of a Phil Davis not a Bones Jones. They both are insane wrestlers who can control low end talent but they haven't proven to be able to finish fights and their standup is rather one dimensional, Bader with his big overhand right and Davis with his head kicks. Difference is Bader has the hype from TUF. Both of these guys are sure fire top 10 fighters in a couple of years but right now I wouldn't have them anywhere near Bones level. If people complain about Bones level of competition Ryan Bader shouldn't even be mentioned.

[nepg]

Ya, Bader's not ready for big time competition yet. Bader probably should fight someone like Vera or Bonnar. Jones is ready for a Top 10 opponent. Give him Thiago Silva or Rich Franklin.

[BlindSite]

Bader's ready for a step up which is why he's facing Nogueira.

Jones should probably face someone like Brilz or Thiago Silva before he's thrown in with Forrest.

[nepg]

Forrest should probably face someone like Brilz before he's thrown in with Jones.

[Bengals78]

Forrest should probably face someone like Brilz before he's thrown in with Jones.

Well, you need to let go of Jones' nuts so he can train now.....

Forrest is an established fighter who is a former champ and has fought and beaten some of the best in the game. Jones has beaten....Brandon Vera.
I would not be surprised at all to see Forrest take this fight with a UD.

[djp]

Well, you need to let go of Jones' nuts so he can train now.....

Forrest is an established fighter who is a former champ and has fought and beaten some of the best in the game. Jones has beaten....Brandon Vera.
I would not be surprised at all to see Forrest take this fight with a UD.

Depending on the odds, I'd take Forrest as well, assuming he is in good shape and not f'd up on ludes.

[djp]

By the way, I'm sure most of you guys know about MMAjunkie, but their medical columnist is absolutely fantastic and I love reading his stuff. Some of you guys probably know most of the stuff that he writes about, but for a guy that is a relatively new MMA fan like myself (~2 years), it's pretty fascinating stuff.

[ccB]

Jon Jones is better at every aspect of MMA than Forrest Griffin, true story.

[Bengals78]

Jon Jones is better at every aspect of MMA than Forrest Griffin, true story.

He probably is. And yet, Forrest has had a better career and is still very dangerous to a lot of fighters.

But after going 11-1 against a bunch of low key and record fluffers, it is far too soon to say he is top 5 in one of the most stacked division in the UFC or MMA.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

He probably is. And yet, Forrest has had a better career and is still very dangerous to a lot of fighters.

But after going 11-1 against a bunch of low key and record fluffers, it is far too soon to say he is top 5 in one of the most stacked division in the UFC or MMA.

You can say he's 11-1, and yeah he lost, but he's never been beaten. He's beat everyone he's gone up against and done it in dominant fashion. I don't think Forrest will be too much of a challenge. The dude can bring it, and is completely relentless.

[Bengals78]

Relentless against nobodies. Forrest will bring the fight. And of all the top guys the UFC could give Jones this is the safest one. People bitched about Chuck being babied and protected, well Jones is too. They are yet to give a challenger with any semblance of striking skills. Forrest is a wild swinger with little power. As we saw with Brock, it is all easy until you get punched in the face by someone who hits as hard as you do.

[fenikz]

Jones would utterly destroy Griffin, silly TUF people

[Rob S]

It's pretty easy with regards to Jones. He is def. top 5 talent wise, the way rankings work tho you can't put him there yet.

That said, I give him a great chance against any 205er.

[Bengals78]

Jones would utterly destroy Griffin, silly TUF people

Seriously?
Now it is back to that? I pray for sarcasm here.

[djp]

Jones would utterly destroy Griffin, silly TUF people

I love Bones, but Forrest is a pretty well rounded fighter, and I could see him tapping Bones if he's not careful. Not to mention, he can hold his own standing, and while Jones is extremely athletic and can deal some unorthodox and devastating strikes, I still got some love for Forrest.

Don't get me wrong, if you give me even odds on Bones/Forrest, I'd take Bones, but if he's a huge favorite, betting Forrest is not a bad play at all, especially with the wide variety of fights that Forrest can get into and not feel totally overmatched.

[E-Man]

The reason why you can't count out Forrest is because he's got much more experience than Jones. Also, when's the last time Jon Jones got kicked in the legs and ribs over and over? Forrest is also bigger than Jones, so that could be an issue in the fight if he gasses carrying Forrest's weight.

I think the world of Jones, but nothing is a guarantee with him yet. He's steamrolled guys impressively, but you gotta remember that there are still aspects of his defense that we haven't seen yet.

[nepg]

Relentless against nobodies. Forrest will bring the fight. And of all the top guys the UFC could give Jones this is the safest one. People bitched about Chuck being babied and protected, well Jones is too. They are yet to give a challenger with any semblance of striking skills. Forrest is a wild swinger with little power. As we saw with Brock, it is all easy until you get punched in the face by someone who hits as hard as you do.

That's ridiculous. Are you seriously saying Forrest is a better striker than Brandon ******* Vera? That's ridiculous, dude. I'm not drinking any Bones Kool-Aid, I'm being a realist. Forrest is a resilient dude and has a few nice (fairly lucky) wins, but Bones will **** him up. Forrest can't hurt him standing, and all he can do on the ground is put up a solid defense against Jones' GnP.

I'm not putting him in any Top 5, but he'll rip Forrest a new one.

[Bengals78]

That's ridiculous. Are you seriously saying Forrest is a better striker than Brandon ******* Vera? That's ridiculous, dude. I'm not drinking any Bones Kool-Aid, I'm being a realist. Forrest is a resilient dude and has a few nice (fairly lucky) wins, but Bones will **** him up. Forrest can't hurt him standing, and all he can do on the ground is put up a solid defense against Jones' GnP.

No I am not saying that. But ever since dropping to 205 Vera has been largely unimpressive and looks sluggish cutting the weight.
Forrest is a scrappier fighter compared to Vera and has more quality wins because he is also more well rounded. I don't even know how you jumped to that conclusion. Seriously. I don't see how.

What does it take to be a kool-aid drinker if not declaring someone who has 1 solid career win will run over a former champ?

[fenikz]

But you won't stop sucking the nuts of the guy who has 2 solid career wins

[nepg]

They are yet to give a challenger with any semblance of striking skills.

You keep saying Bones doesn't have 1 solid career win. Which is ********. Vera and Hamill were on top of their game when he annihilated them.

Vera's just as well-rounded as Forrest (and when he's on his game, a much better fighter), but until recently, he's been pretty lazy. He turned it around for the Couture fight and was robbed of a win. Jones put him on the ground, where Vera's very comfortable, and cracked his eye with an elbow.

I don't like Hamill, but Jones took down a wrestler and made his face into a cherry pie.

Jake O'Brien's no chump. The guy has some quality wins and his 4 losses are to Andrei Arlovsky, Cain Velasquez, Jon Jones, and Gegard Moussasi... Not exactly losses to be embarrassed about.

Stephan Bonnar is a slightly less-lucky version of Forrest Griffin. We all know that.

Gusmao's not UFC-level, but he was a legitimate first opponent.

It's tough to tell where the Janitor's at these days, so whatever... Reputable guy in any event.

How can Jones have destroyed all of those guys and not have one solid career win? I'd lose my job if I took a hit off your pipe.

[ccB]

He probably is. And yet, Forrest has had a better career and is still very dangerous to a lot of fighters.

But after going 11-1 against a bunch of low key and record fluffers, it is far too soon to say he is top 5 in one of the most stacked division in the UFC or MMA.

First of all let's be real here, the guys 12-0, not 11-1 (FU 12-6 Elbow)

Second of all Matt Hammill, Vladdy, and Brandon Vera are not "record fluffers" I'll give you Gusmao and O'Brien, but do you know who Forrest Griffins first post TUF fighters were against? Elvis Sinosic and Bill Mahood.

Of course you can't rank Jon Jones top 5 right now based on credentials, but on talent alone there is no doubt in my mind the guy is in the top 5 of that division, he is a once in a life time prospect, a phenom if you will.

Let's be honest...what was more impressive...Jones' complete domination over Vladdy and Brandon Vera, or Forrest sneaking a SD out against Tito Ortiz?

Like I said I give Jones the edge in every area of the game aside from submissions off the back, and that's only because I've never seen Jones on his back for an extended amount of time.

I don't think a Jon Jones v Forrest Griffin fight would go much different than the Jon Jones v Stephan Bonnar fight went.

EDIT: I also don't know how Forrest is more well rounded than Vera, not saying he's better but Vera has top level muay thai, is a black belt in BJJ under Lloyd Irvin, and has pretty high amateur wrestling credentials.

[Ravens1991]

I dont think we should count forrest out because you can never count him out. But Jones is far more explosive and athletic in striking, and I doubt forrest can take Jones down. Also Forrest wont have a big size advantage like he usually does at 205. I got Jones willing as well.

[E-Man]

Brandon Vera on paper looks like an all time MMA great. Too bad he's never put it together. For the hell of it I'd love to see him against Machida or Shogun just to see if he'd step his game up against an elite guy. His mind is what fails him.

[Rob S]

WEC is absolutely sick right now.

[ccB]

Yeah that Pickett v Jorgensen fight was ******* awesome

[Rob S]

Yeah that Pickett v Jorgensen fight was ******* awesome

I knew you would be watching. Pickett's face is going to be hurting soooo bad in the morning.

[ccB]

wowwwww what a finish by Anthony Pettis.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Hah I tuned in tonight just for Anthony Pettis. I love him, he's so slick on the ground and his combination of explosive athletic ability really aids his ground game as well as unorthodox striking. I wish more people watched WEC. Hardly ever a dull fight.

[Rob S]

wowwwww what a finish by Anthony Pettis.

Twas nice. Roller lunged blindly into his guard a few times , so dumb against a guy like Pettis.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Pettis vs Ben Henderson would definitely be a fight I'd pay for even if it's not on Versus.

[josh07039]

Pettis vs Ben Henderson would definitely be a fight I'd pay for even if it's not on Versus.

Pettis has really improved his wrestling, really should be interesting if and when he gets a shot at Henderson.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Don't see how that was a split, not overly impressed with Cruz but he did dominate although the height difference just made it nearly impossible.

[E-Man]

They should put WEC on Spike one night. It could really help them get more exposure. I'm sure the UFC on Versus is helping, but putting it on Spike would be great for them.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

The Faber vs Aldo card had the prelims on spike. Of course the Korean Zombie vs Leonard Garcia and they also showed Pettis. That Faber vs Aldo WEC card was one of the greatest top to bottom events ever.

[themaninblack]

I also think they would do themselves a lot by hosting an event on Spike. It is very, very entertaining every time I watch and I think it would reach a much wider audience. Most people I know don't even know what the WEC is.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

The problem though is that Americans are still strangely fascinated by big men. I think many casual viewers are turned off by the WEC being so limited weight class wise. I know a lot of people who think the WEC 155 class is just a 2nd tier for guys who can't make it into the UFC, when in actuality Ben Henderson would probably be near the top of the heap in the UFC's 155 division. Still though just like in boxing even if Pacman and Floyd were to happen it wouldn't be as big as a Tyson fight. People just have a fascination with hulking brutes. Personally I love the WEC.Everyone is more explosive, the fights are at a quicker pace, guys are so much quicker at pulling guard and attempting submissions off their backs. Better yet it's rare to find a guy at these weight classes that has 1 punch KO power so you most often really see the more technical and talented striker winning out. I do often get bored with many 185 and 205 matches with wrestlers who are satisfied controlling from the top for 3 rounds. There's nothing wrong with that and it takes an insane amount of talent to keep a guy down and avoid getting subbed, but as a fan it's not exciting to watch.

[nepg]

UFC could solve a lot of problems with injuries and fighters cancelling by having WEC showcase fights on UFC cards.

[Donno]

UFC would be ridiculously better with head stomps and soccer kicks, a fights a fight in my eyes except kicks in the balls and eye gauging lol

[ccB]

The WEC will eventually fold into the UFC, this has been the plan for a while.

UFC would be ridiculously better with head stomps and soccer kicks, a fights a fight in my eyes except kicks in the balls and eye gauging lol

RIP PrideFC :(

[Ravens1991]

I miss the good ole Chute Box from Pride. greatest camp ever!!!

[E-Man]

The problem though is that Americans are still strangely fascinated by big men. I think many casual viewers are turned off by the WEC being so limited weight class wise. I know a lot of people who think the WEC 155 class is just a 2nd tier for guys who can't make it into the UFC, when in actuality Ben Henderson would probably be near the top of the heap in the UFC's 155 division. Still though just like in boxing even if Pacman and Floyd were to happen it wouldn't be as big as a Tyson fight. People just have a fascination with hulking brutes. Personally I love the WEC.Everyone is more explosive, the fights are at a quicker pace, guys are so much quicker at pulling guard and attempting submissions off their backs. Better yet it's rare to find a guy at these weight classes that has 1 punch KO power so you most often really see the more technical and talented striker winning out. I do often get bored with many 185 and 205 matches with wrestlers who are satisfied controlling from the top for 3 rounds. There's nothing wrong with that and it takes an insane amount of talent to keep a guy down and avoid getting subbed, but as a fan it's not exciting to watch.

I think what you say is true, but what also hurts WEC is that Versus isn't a popular channel. From what I understand, they get good ratings for Versus, but the exposure is limited considering that Versus is still pretty young. Hopefully they get a chance to grow bigger with the channel. I love both the WEC and Versus. It's such a great place to watch some extra college football that wasn't being shown some years back when I was in high school.

[ccB]

I think with the UFC now doing shows on Versus it will help bring attention to the WEC, but I know Dana White has plans to eventually put on multiple PPV shows a month, and if this is to happen he'd definitely have to bring the 135 and 145 divisions to the UFC.

[Rob S]

The interest would be there for the lower weights. Once they get exposure and people see the absolute wars they put on, Dana will have no problem selling the little guys to the average UFC fan imo.

I am really hoping WEC folds into UFC. I know a kid thats gonna be fighting WEC soon so possibly I could have myself a ticket hookup.

[ccB]

The interest would be there for the lower weights. Once they get exposure and people see the absolute wars they put on, Dana will have no problem selling the little guys to the average UFC fan imo.

I am really hoping WEC folds into UFC. I know a kid thats gonna be fighting WEC soon so possibly I could have myself a ticket hookup.

Who? (letters)

[Rob S]

Who? (letters)

Nick Pace. One of my best friends is a big guy in TSK, so I meet everyone through him. I have partied with Nick several times and Lyman Good/Rich Boine/Uriah Hall as well.

[ccB]

Nick Pace. One of my best friends is a big guy in TSK, so I meet everyone through him. I have partied with Nick several times and Lyman Good/Rich Boine/Uriah Hall as well.

Awesome, I'll look out for him, any idea who he's fighting? and at what class? Lyman Good is a beast, can't wait to see his showdown with Ben Askren.

[Rob S]

Awesome, I'll look out for him, any idea who he's fighting? and at what class? Lyman Good is a beast, can't wait to see his showdown with Ben Askren.

Lyman and Uriah are insane. Pace is considered the best from TSK tho from a few guys I know.

No announcement yet, he is stuck in Bellator and Ring of Combat for 1 or 2 more fights.

Here is an article on him tho and a sick flying knee KO he had: http://www.sherdog.com/news/r/Sherdog-Prospect-Watch-Nick-Pace-24927

[ccB]

would anyone be interested in doing an MMA fantasy draft for shits and giggles?

[Caddy]

I'd be up for that.

[ccB]

I'd be up for that.

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2265381#post2265381

we got three people so far need at least one more max 3 more.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Wow Lashley just quit at the end of the 2nd round because of fatigue basically. Horrific. He has powerful wrestling but has nothing else. His ground and pound is a joke. He had full mount for a whole round and did nothing. Griggs is alright but in strikeforce hw terms he's a cupcake. A shame though because he definitely won the first two rounds.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

WTF weirdest fight. KJ Noons decks Gurge right after the bell. 2nd round Noons floors Gurge. Ref doesn't stop the fight though so he takes a few more punches, while the ref is then pushing him away Noons kicks Gurge in the head while he's on the ground. Horrendous officiating and Noons is a complete D-bag. He obviously was superior to a BJJ guy who wants to bang but he fights like such a ***. A rematch with Diaz though will be exciting. LOL KJ is talking wanting a fight with pretty boy Floyd. The guy is a freakishly skilled striker but he just comes across as a dirt bag.

[Donno]

Love how before the Lashley fight they announced he was a 2 time WWE Champion. If my memory serves me correctly WWE is fake as **** that is something to be embarrassed about in the MMA world.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

I know they announce him as an army veteran and then a WWE champion, lol. Jacare vs Kennedy!!!

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Extremely close. We'll see. Personally I have Jacare taking rounds 1+2 and Kennedy taking 3+4. 5th round I give to Jacare despite the last takedown. Any of the rounds can go either way though. I think Jacare should win but wouldn't surprise me to see Kennedy win.

[ccB]

V1R50LpFh_M

[SeanTaylorRIP]

OMG Mo lost. That's what he gets for being a cocky mofo with his awful striking stance. Mo just got creamed. Mo just needs to wrestle 100% or even a guy like Antwain Britt can KO him cold.