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View Full Version : Do the Panthers still have the best Dline in the NFL?


bigbluedefense
09-22-2006, 10:05 AM
Ive brought this up before the season, and my personal belief was no, that the Baltimore Ravens have the best line not only because of how good they are, but also because of their versatility. Im starting to think Jacksonville deserves to be mentioned as well. If they had Hayward, theyd probably easily have the best dline. So what do you think, is the Panthers dline overrated? Whos is better?

NOTE: I forgot to mention the Falcons Dline, they are in the discussion as well. Don't worry about the poll, polls don't work anyway...Im more interested in the responses.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2006, 10:10 AM
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR HOMER HATS!! :lol:


I said the Bears before the season started and I still say Bears. When we have a player that isn't even active on gameday that the Bills wanted to sign as their starter, that says something. The Ravens? Why? I know you don't like the cover 2 BBD but I don't get that at all. The Ravens D-line is probably the weakest part of their defense.

A case could be made for the Jags but they don't get much pressure from the ends, especially now that Heyward is down for the year.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2006, 10:11 AM
Another team that needs mention is the Atlanta Falcons, although I don't know the health situation with Kerney.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2006, 10:18 AM
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR HOMER HATS!! :lol:


I said the Bears before the season started and I still say Bears. When we have a player that isn't even active on gameday that the Bills wanted to sign as their starter, that says something. The Ravens? Why? I know you don't like the cover 2 BBD but I don't get that at all. The Ravens D-line is probably the weakest part of their defense.

A case could be made for the Jags but they don't get much pressure from the ends, especially now that Heyward is down for the year.

I forgot to add the Falcons. Well, the Ravens have their poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata, and they have Suggs who gets great pressure. Pryce is a very versatile DE who can play 3-4 DE and is good against the run and can drop in coverage in zone blitzes. They also have Adalius Thomas who can line up at DE. That Dline coupled with Adalius is so versatile, they can play a 4 man front and 3 man front with no dropoff. THey have the most versatile front in the league.

The Jags DTs are simply unreal. They absolutely devour the run on their own. Yes, they don't have a legit pass rusher out of the front 4 now that Hayward is out, if it wasn't for that imo they'd be the best. But even without Hayward they are doing real good.

The Bears have probably the best front 4 in terms of pass rush. But I question the ability of Oguneye and Brown to hold their position on off tackle runs. You can absolutely make a legit argument for the bear's dline, but as you said, you know where I stand with the Cover 2 front, so thats the reason why I rate Baltimore ahead. I feel baltimore can get you almost as good pressure with better run defense.

P-L
09-22-2006, 10:20 AM
I still think the Panther do. But my mind could change throughout the season.

Vince Lombardi
09-22-2006, 10:22 AM
I love the interior d-line of the Jaguars, it's the best in the league imo. The edges leave something to be desired and there's definately better sets of bookends in the league.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2006, 10:24 AM
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR HOMER HATS!! :lol:


I said the Bears before the season started and I still say Bears. When we have a player that isn't even active on gameday that the Bills wanted to sign as their starter, that says something. The Ravens? Why? I know you don't like the cover 2 BBD but I don't get that at all. The Ravens D-line is probably the weakest part of their defense.

A case could be made for the Jags but they don't get much pressure from the ends, especially now that Heyward is down for the year.

I forgot to add the Falcons. Well, the Ravens have their poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata, and they have Suggs who gets great pressure. Pryce is a very versatile DE who can play 3-4 DE and is good against the run and can drop in coverage in zone blitzes. They also have Adalius Thomas who can line up at DE. That Dline coupled with Adalius is so versatile, they can play a 4 man front and 3 man front with no dropoff. THey have the most versatile front in the league.

The Jags DTs are simply unreal. They absolutely devour the run on their own. Yes, they don't have a legit pass rusher out of the front 4 now that Hayward is out, if it wasn't for that imo they'd be the best. But even without Hayward they are doing real good.

The Bears have probably the best front 4 in terms of pass rush. But I question the ability of Oguneye and Brown to hold their position on off tackle runs. You can absolutely make a legit argument for the bear's dline, but as you said, you know where I stand with the Cover 2 front, so thats the reason why I rate Baltimore ahead. I feel baltimore can get you almost as good pressure with better run defense.
Yeah I understand that, and that's actually a pretty good argument for Baltimore. It is worth noting, however, that in the games we lost last year, we lost almost all of them by the deep ball. Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Santana Moss, etc. The only game that we lost on the ground is against Jerome Bettis, and there aren't that many (or any) Jerome Bettis' in the league today. If you look at the moves we made in the offseason (Daniel Manning, Ricky Manning Jr, Devin Hester) it was to proivide speed to a slow secondary, not to bolster our run defense.

Even in the game, early in the year when we weren't that good, against the Bengals and Rudi Johnson, we did a nice job against a big bruising back like Rudi, we just got beat by Carson Palmer and the deep ball.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2006, 10:29 AM
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR HOMER HATS!! :lol:


I said the Bears before the season started and I still say Bears. When we have a player that isn't even active on gameday that the Bills wanted to sign as their starter, that says something. The Ravens? Why? I know you don't like the cover 2 BBD but I don't get that at all. The Ravens D-line is probably the weakest part of their defense.

A case could be made for the Jags but they don't get much pressure from the ends, especially now that Heyward is down for the year.

I forgot to add the Falcons. Well, the Ravens have their poor man's Stroud/Henderson in Gregg/Ngata, and they have Suggs who gets great pressure. Pryce is a very versatile DE who can play 3-4 DE and is good against the run and can drop in coverage in zone blitzes. They also have Adalius Thomas who can line up at DE. That Dline coupled with Adalius is so versatile, they can play a 4 man front and 3 man front with no dropoff. THey have the most versatile front in the league.

The Jags DTs are simply unreal. They absolutely devour the run on their own. Yes, they don't have a legit pass rusher out of the front 4 now that Hayward is out, if it wasn't for that imo they'd be the best. But even without Hayward they are doing real good.

The Bears have probably the best front 4 in terms of pass rush. But I question the ability of Oguneye and Brown to hold their position on off tackle runs. You can absolutely make a legit argument for the bear's dline, but as you said, you know where I stand with the Cover 2 front, so thats the reason why I rate Baltimore ahead. I feel baltimore can get you almost as good pressure with better run defense.
Yeah I understand that, and that's actually a pretty good argument for Baltimore. It is worth noting, however, that in the games we lost last year, we lost almost all of them by the deep ball. Chad Johnson, Steve Smith, Santana Moss, etc. The only game that we lost on the ground is against Jerome Bettis, and there aren't that many (or any) Jerome Bettis' in the league today. If you look at the moves we made in the offseason (Daniel Manning, Ricky Manning Jr, Devin Hester) it was to proivide speed to a slow secondary, not to bolster our run defense.

Even in the game, early in the year when we weren't that good, against the Bengals and Rudi Johnson, we did a nice job against a big bruising back like Rudi, we just got beat by Carson Palmer and the deep ball.

I think if we take depth into account, Chicago definately has the best. If I remember correctly, Chicago constantly subs in dlinemen to keep everyone fresh. That definately helps the run defense. And you make a great point about the pass game beating Chicago and not the run game. The bears's Cover 2 is somewhat different from the conventional Cover 2 I noticed. The players other than the DEs and NT are not undersized like Tampa's and Indys. That makes Chicago's Cover 2 much more tolerable to me.

The Unseen
09-22-2006, 10:32 AM
Chicago or Baltimore.

I love the Jags', of course, but I think they just fall short in comparison.

Then there's the Falcons, then the Panthers.

Nitschke-Hawk
09-22-2006, 10:35 AM
I have to go with Atlanta since they added Gravy and Abe.

Jughead10
09-22-2006, 10:42 AM
If I was confident that Abraham wouldn't miss any more time for the rest of the year, I would say Atlanta. But I'm not confident in that. Chicago it is.

therock6000
09-22-2006, 10:48 AM
i like New England's front 3 of Warren, Wilfork, and Seymour.

LonghornsLegend
09-22-2006, 11:28 AM
when healthy, the front 4 of ATL is very scary....now thats just starters, like BBD said if depth is taken into account it almost HAS to be chicago because they can sub and their backups could start on alot of teams, and it keeps the starters fresh which is even better....

but abraham and kerney on the ends with grady in the middle is your ideal line, definately better then baltimore to me, and close with chicago because tommie harris is a top 4 DT in the NFL right now

1. Jenkins
2. Stroud
3. Henderson
4. Harris

after that shaun rodgers, casey hampton, and others come to mind, but i think those are the 4 top DT right now


but ATL possesses one of the top DE's, and another a top 10, with big Grady clogging up holes for the run game, and i like that mix

Shiver
09-22-2006, 11:32 AM
Bears are the best, with Atlanta second. I give the edge to the Bears in terms of depth. Atlanta has the best starting four, but the Bears have better rotational players. Had Kearse not went down the Eagles would've been a contender.

sodar21
09-22-2006, 12:01 PM
How about the Eagles.

njx9
09-22-2006, 12:11 PM
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR HOMER HATS!! :lol:


i don't know how denver hasn't been mentioned.




........

portermvp84
09-22-2006, 12:16 PM
I still think the Panther do. But my mind could change throughout the season.

I'm with you on that, I think it's still to early to detrimine that.

Splat
09-22-2006, 12:33 PM
The Jags are pretty dam good.

Bearsfan123
09-22-2006, 12:45 PM
Actually Id say the Jags. There are a couple of great DTs out there, to name the top 5 id say 1. Jenkins 2. Henderson 3 Stroud 4 Shaun Rogers and 5 Tommie Harris. The Jags have 2 of them. All they need is to pay two D-ends that are in the upper echelion of good and they would have the most dominating d-line. If they pulled Alex Brown away, and another solid D-end (cant think of any other non-premiere ones) that would be terrifying.

Shiver
09-22-2006, 12:48 PM
Actually Id say the Jags. There are a couple of great DTs out there, to name the top 5 id say 1. Kerney 2. Henderson 3 Stroud 4 Shaun Rogers and 5 Tommie Harris. The Jags have 2 of them. All they need is to pay two D-ends that are in the upper echelion of good and they would have the most dominating d-line. If they pulled Alex Brown away, and another solid D-end (cant think of any other non-premiere ones) that would be terrifying.


I'd fix that, assuming you didn't mean Patrick Kerney is the best DT in the NFL.. :shock:

Bearsfan123
09-22-2006, 12:53 PM
Actually Id say the Jags. There are a couple of great DTs out there, to name the top 5 id say 1. Kerney 2. Henderson 3 Stroud 4 Shaun Rogers and 5 Tommie Harris. The Jags have 2 of them. All they need is to pay two D-ends that are in the upper echelion of good and they would have the most dominating d-line. If they pulled Alex Brown away, and another solid D-end (cant think of any other non-premiere ones) that would be terrifying.


I'd fix that, assuming you didn't mean Patrick Kerney is the best DT in the NFL.. :shock:

yeah thanks. I meant to put Jenkins but I somehow got him mixed up with Kerney. Sorry bout that.

Basileus777
09-22-2006, 01:16 PM
With Hayward its the Jags, but as it is now the Bears have the best dline. The Panthers line was a bit overrated coming into the season, Jenkins isn't playing like he was a few years ago and Kemo is nothing special. Peppers is a beast, but right now he is the only one on that line playing up to his potential.

Shiver
09-22-2006, 01:23 PM
With Hayward its the Jags, but as it is now the Bears have the best dline. The Panthers line was a bit overrated coming into the season, Jenkins isn't playing like he was a few years ago and Kemo is nothing special. Peppers is a beast, but right now he is the only one on that line playing up to his potential.


Don't forget, Rucker is past his prime as well.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2006, 01:26 PM
With Hayward its the Jags, but as it is now the Bears have the best dline. The Panthers line was a bit overrated coming into the season, Jenkins isn't playing like he was a few years ago and Kemo is nothing special. Peppers is a beast, but right now he is the only one on that line playing up to his potential.


Don't forget, Rucker is past his prime as well.
Rucker had a prime?

Shiver
09-22-2006, 01:28 PM
I guess '02-'03 could be considered "it," those were his only double digit sack seasons. Which considering that Peppers is acrossed from him, isn't that impressive.

P-L
09-22-2006, 01:34 PM
I guess '02-'03 could be considered "it," those were his only double digit sack seasons. Which considering that Peppers is acrossed from him, isn't that impressive.

Well sacks don't directly relate to performance. We are talking about the Bears as a top 5 DL aren't we? I'm pretty sure there were at least 5 teams who's DL recorded more sacks last year, and this year too. Yet, the Bears still have one of, if not, the best DL in football despite the sack numbers. Rucker was always a pretty good DE, never elite, but pretty good.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2006, 01:36 PM
I guess '02-'03 could be considered "it," those were his only double digit sack seasons. Which considering that Peppers is acrossed from him, isn't that impressive.

Well sacks don't directly relate to performance. We are talking about the Bears as a top 5 DL aren't we? I'm pretty sure there were at least 5 teams who's DL recorded more sacks last year, and this year too. Yet, the Bears still have one of, if not, the best DL in football despite the sack numbers. Rucker was always a pretty good DE, never elite, but pretty good.
The Bears D-Line probably gets 95% of their sacks though because they almost never blitz their linebackers (except for Urlacher from time to time). Look at the Lions game just last week. 6 sacks. All of them from the D-line.

Does Skip Bayless really think that Kyle "I should have been a" Boller is funny? What an asshole.

Shiver
09-22-2006, 01:51 PM
I guess '02-'03 could be considered "it," those were his only double digit sack seasons. Which considering that Peppers is acrossed from him, isn't that impressive.

Well sacks don't directly relate to performance. We are talking about the Bears as a top 5 DL aren't we? I'm pretty sure there were at least 5 teams who's DL recorded more sacks last year, and this year too. Yet, the Bears still have one of, if not, the best DL in football despite the sack numbers. Rucker was always a pretty good DE, never elite, but pretty good.


When your across from the best DE in football, sacks do relate to performance because your facing no double teams.

Smooth Criminal
09-22-2006, 01:53 PM
While the Panthers line is really good I think the Jaguars is better, esspecially if they have Hayward. The Ravens line is very good as well with big guys in the middle and alot of guys that can rush the passer on the ends.

Basileus777
09-22-2006, 02:07 PM
If the Jags have the best line, its because of this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugJ62hxtNm4

bigbluedefense
09-22-2006, 02:42 PM
No love for the Ravens eh? I guess I stand alone in my reasoning.

The Legend
09-22-2006, 02:50 PM
EVERYONE PUT ON YOUR HOMER HATS!! :lol:


I said the Bears before the season started and I still say Bears. When we have a player that isn't even active on gameday that the Bills wanted to sign as their starter, that says something. The Ravens? Why? I know you don't like the cover 2 BBD but I don't get that at all. The Ravens D-line is probably the weakest part of their defense.

A case could be made for the Jags but they don't get much pressure from the ends, especially now that Heyward is down for the year.


http://www.garmentdistrict.com/store/popculture/simpsons/patches/homer-hat.jpg

i have my homer hat
and i will say the ravens - jags line and bears line dont have a INT

the ravens line has like 125 return yards :D

Basileus777
09-22-2006, 02:51 PM
No love for the Ravens eh? I guess I stand alone in my reasoning.

You make some good points, but the Ravens dline isn't that great at rushing the passer. Suggs (and AD when he lines up there) is the only real pass rusher on that line.

The Legend
09-22-2006, 02:53 PM
No love for the Ravens eh? I guess I stand alone in my reasoning.

i say ravens

Suggs - 2 FF / 2 SACKS / 1 FR

Gregs 1 FF / 2 FR

Pryce - 1 Sack

Nqata - 1 INT

1 INT / 3 SACKS / 3 FR / 3 FF

Shiver
09-22-2006, 03:09 PM
No love for the Ravens eh? I guess I stand alone in my reasoning.

i say ravens

Suggs - 2 FF / 2 SACKS / 1 FR

Gregs 1 FF / 2 FR

Pryce - 1 Sack

Nqata - 1 INT

1 INT / 3 SACKS / 3 FR / 3 FF


They padded those stats a bit, facing off against two of the worst O-Lines in football.

Number 10
09-22-2006, 03:10 PM
No way.

I'd take the Bears D-line in a heartbeat.

The Unseen
09-22-2006, 03:12 PM
To be honest, you can't include Hayward in this discussion, because this is all about right now. Rob Meier has been a very good situational DT, and is now starting at LE, which he has done before. Although he's a good player, he isn't Reggie Hayward. He's probably better against the run, but pass-rushing is most likely lesser. Not only that, he's not an every-down guy like Reggie is. On third down he's replaced by guys like Bobby McCray and Brent Hawkins. He also shares time with Marcellus Wiley. Rob Meier is also often moved inside on third-downs, replacing both Henderson and Stroud at times.

Shiver
09-22-2006, 03:27 PM
The Bears D-Line is what makes their defense. It allows their coordinator to put everyone back into coverage, while still effective at getting to the QB. Unlike other Tampa 2 teams, they have so much depth on the D-Line they don't wear down against the run either.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-22-2006, 03:37 PM
No Vikings on this poll? Are you guys all high? pav wouldnt be happy.

Shiver
09-22-2006, 03:39 PM
The Vikings could be in the debate, if it was solely interior D-Line. They dont have the DEs these other defenses have.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-22-2006, 03:45 PM
The Vikings could be in the debate, if it was solely interior D-Line. They dont have the DEs these other defenses have.

Yeah I know, I was being sarcastic :lol: . IMO, the Bears or Jags have the best when healthy. But without Hayward, ive gotta go with the Bears.

SuperMcGee
09-22-2006, 04:55 PM
overall I like the Bears

homer post script - Bills lead the AFC in sacks and Ryan Denney loves the cover 2

draftguru151
09-22-2006, 06:52 PM
No Vikings on this poll? Are you guys all high? pav wouldnt be happy.

draftguru152? :lol: What a loser.

I would go with Atlanta.

Ravens1991
09-22-2006, 06:56 PM
I think the Ravens have a top one, perhaps #1 due to the versatility of it. But the think I like is that the dline is probably the weakest part of the Ravens defense.

BlindSite
09-22-2006, 11:38 PM
I'm going to say no...

Next year with Peppers, Jenkins and Maake having a year back/in the system and Rucker we'll be the best. This year, Jenkins and Kemoeatu aint up to scratch just yet. That said, we're probably the deepest at defensive tackle in the NFL. Kemo and Jenk could arguably start on any team (except perhaps JAX) and then we've got carstens and Lewis. Who've made their prescence felt early this year. Especially carstens who took Hutchinson to school last week on two plays.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-22-2006, 11:39 PM
No Vikings on this poll? Are you guys all high? pav wouldnt be happy.

draftguru152? :lol: What a loser.

I would go with Atlanta.

Don't forget he was also draftguru153. Although I dont think he got around to posting with that one.

HawkeyeFan
09-22-2006, 11:40 PM
No. When healthy its the Jaguars. There is no better, and dominate Defensive Tackle Duo than Marcus Stroud and John Henderson. Add Reggie Hayward and Paul Spicer, there you have it.

Beans
09-23-2006, 08:21 AM
It's gotta be the Bu... oh, why even bother?

09-23-2006, 08:23 AM
I think its still the Panthers but the Falcons are a close second

sweetness34
09-23-2006, 09:56 AM
when healthy, the front 4 of ATL is very scary....now thats just starters, like BBD said if depth is taken into account it almost HAS to be chicago because they can sub and their backups could start on alot of teams, and it keeps the starters fresh which is even better....

but abraham and kerney on the ends with grady in the middle is your ideal line, definately better then baltimore to me, and close with chicago because tommie harris is a top 4 DT in the NFL right now

1. Jenkins
2. Stroud
3. Henderson
4. Harris

after that shaun rodgers, casey hampton, and others come to mind, but i think those are the 4 top DT right now


but ATL possesses one of the top DE's, and another a top 10, with big Grady clogging up holes for the run game, and i like that mix

Cough Shaun Rogers Cough....

09-23-2006, 09:58 AM
when healthy, the front 4 of ATL is very scary....now thats just starters, like BBD said if depth is taken into account it almost HAS to be chicago because they can sub and their backups could start on alot of teams, and it keeps the starters fresh which is even better....

but abraham and kerney on the ends with grady in the middle is your ideal line, definately better then baltimore to me, and close with chicago because tommie harris is a top 4 DT in the NFL right now

1. Jenkins
2. Stroud
3. Henderson
4. Harris

after that shaun rodgers, casey hampton, and others come to mind, but i think those are the 4 top DT right now


but ATL possesses one of the top DE's, and another a top 10, with big Grady clogging up holes for the run game, and i like that mix

Cough Shaun Rogers Cough....

i dont agree with him but:
after that shaun rodgers, casey hampton, and others come to mind, but i think those are the 4 top DT right now

Shiver
09-23-2006, 01:12 PM
Even Panthers fans, at least some, will agree Kris Jenkins isn't fully back yet. The best defensive tackle play this season has been from Shaun Rogers by far. He is the best, because he's a load, while still distrupive in the backfield.

Handel
09-23-2006, 01:35 PM
I would say Patriots DL but I would be an homer. :oops: :lol:

Btw, it's the team's deepest unit.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2006, 07:01 PM
I would say Patriots DL but I would be an homer. :oops: :lol:

Btw, it's the team's deepest unit.

3-4 teams don't count when you talk about Dlines. The fact that theres one less person on the line simply makes it impossible for a 3-4 team to have the best dline.

If we did talk about best 3-4 Dlines though, Id give it to San Diego. Castillo, Williams, Olshanksky is one sick core. Dallas is solid at the End position, but lack a dominant NT, and Pitt has a dominant NT but lack strength at End. NE has the 2nd best 3-4 line.

jkpigskin
09-23-2006, 08:58 PM
I think the Ravens have a top one, perhaps #1 due to the versatility of it. But the think I like is that the dline is probably the weakest part of the Ravens defense.

but being the weakest in out D is not a bad thing.. especially looking at our secondary(reed, mcalister, roole, landry) and lb's (lewis, at, scott)....

skill wise there is no team that matches the D as a whole, but i wouldnt say the ravens have the best DLine(its close though)

BlindSite
09-23-2006, 09:28 PM
Even Panthers fans, at least some, will agree Kris Jenkins isn't fully back yet. The best defensive tackle play this season has been from Shaun Rogers by far. He is the best, because he's a load, while still distrupive in the backfield.

Shaun Rogers is probably the best DT I've ever seen.

Like I said, Kemo isn't used to the system yet and Jenkins isn't 100%, when they both click, we'll be hard to go past imo.

YoJoeBucsFan
09-23-2006, 10:59 PM
I have a feeeling the Bucs offensive line will make the Panthers d-line look like the best in the league.