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D-Fence
04-26-2007, 11:25 AM
Jerry said in his press conference the other day the Cowboys would trade up if the opportunity arose, but who would they be targeting with a trade up? Rumors are it's possibly a RB, but then what happens with Barber/JJ? Just wouldn't make sense to me...Would it be Branch, Hall, possibly Reggie Nelson?

Macarthur
04-26-2007, 11:50 AM
I think Lynch would be a possiblity if he falls into the late teens. I would love Branch at 22, but I don't think I would go up to get him. Frankly, Lynch is the only one I can think of that has a realistic chance of dropping that I would consider going up a few spots to get. Maybe someone come up with a name, but right now he's the only one that comes to mind.

pocketaces
04-26-2007, 12:05 PM
Im pretty sure that Jerrys talking about Peterson if he drops to 10. We would have to give up all three first day picks to get him. The question is, would you make the move to get A.D.? I would personally but Im a O.U. season ticket holder so Im biased. Keep in mind that if we made the same move last year we would have gotten Leinart. Would you trade Carp, Fassano,and Hatcher for Leinart? Going into the draft last year Absolutely I.M.O.

Macarthur
04-26-2007, 12:15 PM
Im pretty sure that Jerrys talking about Peterson if he drops to 10. We would have to give up all three first day picks to get him. The question is, would you make the move to get A.D.? I would personally but Im a O.U. season ticket holder so Im biased. Keep in mind that if we made the same move last year we would have gotten Leinart. Would you trade Carp, Fassano,and Hatcher for Leinart? Going into the draft last year Absolutely I.M.O.


Well, given what we know about Romo now, no, I would not trade Leinart for Romo. However, at the time, I can see your point.

I would love AD, but that's too much to give up.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 12:20 PM
Im pretty sure that Jerrys talking about Peterson if he drops to 10. We would have to give up all three first day picks to get him. The question is, would you make the move to get A.D.? I would personally but Im a O.U. season ticket holder so Im biased. Keep in mind that if we made the same move last year we would have gotten Leinart. Would you trade Carp, Fassano,and Hatcher for Leinart? Going into the draft last year Absolutely I.M.O.

I wouldn't trade Carp, Fasano, and Hatcher for Leinart on this team no, but if I needed a franchise QB sure. We traded a 1st and 3 2nd's for Tony Dorsett and that worked out pretty well, but who knows. Personally I like AD a lot, but like i've said in other threads Lynch at 22 is better value than AD at 10 imo. Of course if AD is there at 10 or 11 we can't say we'll just wait for Lynch at 22 because then we probably get neither one. I just think if you get the opportunity to get one of these guys at the right position for the right price why not.

Macarthur
04-26-2007, 12:27 PM
I agree with you jdnoyes.

And for the record, I like Carp and he's going to be a good one. I also think Fasano is going to be a good one. Sometimes it's hard for a rookie to make an impact at TE. Not sure what his role is going to look like now with Garrett, but I think he will be a good one. I think the same thing about Hatcher. He showed some flashes and lets not forget, he made a big jump in competition so his adjustment time may be lengthened a bit more than normal. I think those three picks will turn out very well.

D-Unit
04-26-2007, 02:54 PM
I don't think it's a matter of just one player. Jerry said there were a few guys on each side of the ball, offense and defense that he would consider moving up for.

AD is the strongest hunch I get.

I wouldn't read too much into it though as a lot of different factors have to fall into place for trades to get accomplished. Too many ifs.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
04-26-2007, 03:24 PM
I dont think trading up to 10 is worth it. I love AD, but I think he is gone at 10. Lynch is overrated to me. I think guys like him come out every year.

If Branch is there at 22, we take him, or I will cut of Jerry head and put it in my pocket.

D-Unit
04-26-2007, 03:53 PM
I dont think trading up to 10 is worth it. I love AD, but I think he is gone at 10. Lynch is overrated to me. I think guys like him come out every year.

If Branch is there at 22, we take him, or I will cut of Jerry head and put it in my pocket.
Yeah, other than AD I can't imagine Jerry actually making the move. I tried to say that above, but I guess I didn't.

Lynch should fall to 22. As may Branch.

Paul
04-26-2007, 04:09 PM
I dont think trading up to 10 is worth it. I love AD, but I think he is gone at 10. Lynch is overrated to me. I think guys like him come out every year.

If Branch is there at 22, we take him, or I will cut of Jerry head and put it in my pocket.

Is it me, or are the threats towards Jerry Jones' life and well-being becoming more and more prevalent, as we inch closer towards the draft.

reigle9
04-26-2007, 04:30 PM
I listened to Jerry on the Ranch Report (or whatever). After listening to that, I think I know what we're going to do.

1. The player he wants to trade up for is AD.
2. I don't think we're trading down, but he wouldn't mind it.
3. If we stay at 22, it's going to be Jarvis Moss.

D-Unit
04-26-2007, 04:34 PM
I listened to Jerry on the Ranch Report (or whatever). After listening to that, I think I know what we're going to do.

1. The player he wants to trade up for is AD.
2. I don't think we're trading down, but he wouldn't mind it.
3. If we stay at 22, it's going to be Jarvis Moss.
I'd be happy with Moss and Ware attacking backfields. Then rotating Carp with Moss in pass coverage assignments.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 04:34 PM
Is it me, or are the threats towards Jerry Jones' life and well-being becoming more and more prevalent, as we inch closer towards the draft.

I would just lobotmize him. The courts would not be able to tell and you would go scott free.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 04:42 PM
Not sold on Moss... I really, really dont want to see us give up on Carp. He should be the starter at OLB...we drafted him for a reason and that was to get after the QB... he was phenominal at the college level... it's too early to bring another one of these hybrid guys in, IMO... at least not in the 1st round. Damn.... this draft is going to be crazy. :)

reigle9
04-26-2007, 04:42 PM
I'd be happy with Moss and Ware attacking backfields. Then rotating Carp with Moss in pass coverage assignments.
I'm warming up to that idea too.

I'd rather take your sig (assuming we can't trade down and out), but I think Moss could work like that.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 04:46 PM
I much prefer Spencer to Moss, just don't see why people like him so much, the measurables are in Spencer's favor or at least equal, and he has better college production.

Paul
04-26-2007, 04:49 PM
I like Spencer as well. Alot actually. Just a questions about his ability in coverage.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 04:51 PM
I like Spencer as well. Alot actually. Just a questions about his ability in coverage.

I agree with you two... Spencer is nasty... at times damn near unblockable sure, at times he can become engulfed as well but, there is not a doubt in my mind that he has the bigger upside....I like my boys mean, ha.

That being said...OLB/DE, not at the top of my list.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 04:53 PM
I like Spencer as well. Alot actually. Just a questions about his ability in coverage.

Jerry has mentioned several times that Wade doesn't place near as much emphasis on on coverage skills in his OLB's as Bill did, if Spencer plays on the strong side for Dallas he will very rarely be in coverage. By the way he does have some experience dropping into coverage as he did it some as a Jr. at Purdue.

D-Unit
04-26-2007, 05:09 PM
Jerry has mentioned several times that Wade doesn't place near as much emphasis on on coverage skills in his OLB's as Bill did, if Spencer plays on the strong side for Dallas he will very rarely be in coverage. By the way he does have some experience dropping into coverage as he did it some as a Jr. at Purdue.
Wade has said himself that he likes to build from the inside out. That to me, says he values in this order NT, ILB, DE, OLB.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 05:14 PM
Wade has said himself that he likes to build from the inside out. That to me, says he values in this order NT, ILB, DE, OLB.


In which case Branch does not get past us.... in which case we go Tyler, Soliai or Thomas at some point in the draft.

On the Jerry comment about Wade not caring as much about LB in coverage let me correct Jerry --- OLB, not ILB.

Wade's system relies on good ILB in coverage and a dominant NT.... so draw you own conclusions about how well we will play in this system given what we have.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 05:26 PM
Wade has said himself that he likes to build from the inside out. That to me, says he values in this order NT, ILB, DE, OLB.

Jerry made it pretty clear he's picking out the groceries not Wade. I agree though, and I think they'd really be after a NT if there was one worth drafting in this draft. The reason I think they are shopping for an OLB somewhere in the first day is that Wade has already figured out Bradie isn't gonna work very well in his scheme, so he is hoping Carp can do what he needs his ILB's to do.

Of course if Branch falls in their lap, then they have got to take him don't they?

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 05:34 PM
Jerry made it pretty clear he's picking out the groceries not Wade. I agree though, and I think they'd really be after a NT if there was one worth drafting in this draft. The reason I think they are shopping for an OLB somewhere in the first day is that Wade has already figured out Bradie isn't gonna work very well in his scheme, so he is hoping Carp can do what he needs his ILB's to do.

Of course if Branch falls in their lap, then they have got to take him don't they?

I dont know about all that... Bradie may not be the ideal fit for this defense but, he does have a fresh new contract and is one of our co-captains... they wont sit him and I dont see him getting cut anytime soon. I cant see any scenario unfolding where Adoyele and James are not the ILBs week 1.

thule
04-26-2007, 05:38 PM
Well lets break it down....Jerry said there was 4 impact players on offense and 3-4 impact players on defense....those are the guys he will move up for.

Offense is easy...obviously one of the QB's didn't make the list or but look.
CJ
AD
Thomas
now the 4th could either be a QB...or maybe since that wasn't a need he didn't consider them and instead has a guy like Ginn or Meachem on there.

On defense it gets a lot harder
Laron Landry is a for sure guy he was talking about
Branch could be one but i'm not buying it
Gaines Adams I'll buy this
Adam Carriker with his numbers he is a guy jerry would like...although not a need.
the last one gets hard...CB maybe is it branch?
Patrick Willis I'm gonna guess it's willis with his pro day
Darrelle Revis is my next pick but i don't buy it

So I think thats a pretty clear assessment on whats going on. The hard part is the last guy on offense....he said 3-4 guys on defense...so maybe willis is or isn't on that list as the last guy.

Of those guys I think it's pretty safe to say that we would have to move up to that 10-13 range like Jerry said to land them.

Now I don't buy QB because we would never move up for one....so I really think that last player has to be a guy who strikes the word impact. I know the rumors are that we love Meachem...but I wouldn't go as far to call him impact. If there was one offensive guy in NCAA last year it was Ginn...so I'm gonna buy this.

As far as for the priority of moving up...I'll rank them by what I see
CJ
AD
Thomas
Landry
Carriker
Adams
Ginn
Willis

Now we are getting somewhere. Of those 8 guys...who could we honestly see Jerry giving up the necessary to get there. To move up to pick 10 it's about 500 pts equivalent to pick 40 in the draft...so lets say an early second.

To move up to pick 13 it's about 400 pts which is equivalent to pick 50 or a mid 2nd round pick.

Now when you break it down like that...you can factor in players values too and what not. For instance...Julius is probably rated at a mid-late second...So I'd say he is pretty close to 400 value pts. A guy like Burnett is probably around that same value...just for the simple fact that he hasn't done anything to lose his draft value and the lack of OLB's in this draft.

Back to who would we move up to get.
CJ - Jerry already said he wouldn't trade the house...so this isn't happening.
AD - If CLE passes and ATL goes LT or DT...Houston is our target and this could happen on draft day.
Thomas - Not going to fall out of the top 5 can't see it.
Landry - If he is sitting there at 13 I could see us hoping CAR...but lets not kid ourselves he is a lock at a top 10 pick so no.
Carriker - If he fell pass Pitt maybe...but not that 10-13 area so no.
Adams - Adams is virtually a lock at a top 5 pick just because of the needs of those teams so no.
Ginn - Here is a guy who is targetted by a few teams here...but could slide as late as 18 to the titans....if this is Jerry's horse I wouldn't be surprised to see us jump a team like STL to land him.
Willis - Here is another guy that seemingly every team 11-15 is salvating at getting...so I also think he is an option...but our need here is small...I'll still buy this as my dark horse.

That leaves us with 4 guys we have a chance at moving up for in that 10-13 range Jerry was talking about.
Landry
AD
Ginn
Willis

Now landry is a really outside shot...so I'm gonna eliminate him. Which leaves us with three guys. Now a team like Houston could really buy into JJ...they need a RB...AD isn't the best fit in a ZBS...JJ would be a great fit because of his cutback....I could see a 22/JJ/future 2nd getting the job done possibly. Now thats not close to selling the house...I mean even a 3rd and second day pick could get it done...but that is a lot of whatif's.

Now Ginn is completely what our board looks like. If we are high on him...I think we make our move...after all have we even heard Ginn's name this offseason...I sure haven't...could Jerry be waiting for his horse to fall?

Willis...if this is truly Jerry's guy...wat does that mean for Brady. One comment about the Press conference I found interesting was the Whats the difference between Wade's and Parcells draft strategys. He said well Wade tends to go with more speed. Now that right there is my reasoning for putting Willis as an impact player. His proday really showed what he could do. I almost think we got to get to pick 11 to make this happen...and it's not even a lock he will be available.

After all the typing..it makes me realize....we are going to have to get lucky to land OUR guy...aka AD. We may surprise and land Ginn or Willis...I can only imagine the reaction on the board. I'll break this down as far as our draft options.
20% - move up
45% - stay put
35% - move down

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 05:39 PM
I dont know about all that... Bradie may not be the ideal fit for this defense but, he does have a fresh new contract and is one of our co-captains... they wont sit him and I dont see him getting cut anytime soon. I cant see any scenario unfolding where Adoyele and James are not the ILBs week 1.


You're taking my post the wrong way, I think Bradie starts in week 1, but it seems fairly obvious he won't be a 3 down LB, Carp will be inside and outside, but I think by the end of the season he will be sitting on the bench for the majority of the snaps because I just think he's a liability in this defense.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 05:50 PM
Thule, i dont see how Julius has the equivalency of a mid-late 2nd rounder. Mcgahee was traded for two 3rds and a 7th, probably equivlant to about 265 points...that's less than any late 2nd rounder... factor in that players value decreases during the actual draft and Julius' value is considerably lower than that.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 05:52 PM
I dunno Thule, I think him throwing out numbers was just that throwing out numbers. I don't put a ton of stock in a lot of what he said, except that sure if a guy we like starts falling he'd trade up, which is the same every year.

Good call on the Wade likes speed thing though, he said this several times. We want to add speed. As to Willis I like the guy a lot, he loves to hit people, and would fit well in the scheme, even if it is overkill, I still really think if they aren't happy with Bradie they already have the answer to that on the roster (Carp) who San Diego was interested in as an ILB. So I think if we are making a move to replace Brady its gonna be a SOLB aka Spencer.

thule
04-26-2007, 05:53 PM
Thule, i dont see how Julius has the equivalency of a mid-late 2nd rounder. Mcgahee was traded for two 3rds and a 7th, probably equivlant to about 265 points...that's less than any late 2nd rounder... factor in that players value decreases during the actual draft and Julius' value is considerbally lower than that.

Willis came with baggage...he has character concerns...about 5 kids with 4 different females...his stats have decreased since he came in the league.

JJ is a high character guy....who has improved every year in the league.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 05:55 PM
Thule, i dont see how Julius has the equivalency of a mid-late 2nd rounder. Mcgahee was traded for two 3rds and a 7th, probably equivlant to about 265 points...that's less than any late 2nd rounder... factor in that players value decreases during the actual draft and Julius' value is considerbally lower than that.

Good point, I think we naturally overvalue our players. I don't see JJ bringing anything better than 3rd round value especially on draft day. Only way I see you getting a 2nd for him is a desperate team nearing the season with trouble at RB due to injuries and lack of depth need a guy to plug in.

Burnett is doubtful second round value, he hasn't started a game in the NFL, and was drafted in the second round, I can't see somebody giving up a pick higher than his draft status.

Jerry said he won't be trading players on draft day, he could be lying but I doubt it.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 05:56 PM
Willis came with baggage...he has character concerns...about 5 kids with 4 different females...his stats have decreased since he came in the league.

JJ is a high character guy....who has improved every year in the league.

Willis Mcgahee may come with a little baggage but, he is the better running back of the two. I dont think JJ has a lot of value, maybe a 3rd...maybe.

thule
04-26-2007, 06:04 PM
Good point, I think we naturally overvalue our players. I don't see JJ bringing anything better than 3rd round value especially on draft day. Only way I see you getting a 2nd for him is a desperate team nearing the season with trouble at RB due to injuries and lack of depth need a guy to plug in.

Burnett is doubtful second round value, he hasn't started a game in the NFL, and was drafted in the second round, I can't see somebody giving up a pick higher than his draft status.

Jerry said he won't be trading players on draft day, he could be lying but I doubt it.

The only reason Burnett has a mid 2nd round grade...is because of the lack of depth at OLB in this draft...I mean think about it....Beason, Timmons, PP, and then the next best guy is some scrub from Hamton....Durant doesn't have half the talent that Burnett does. So I don't think he would better his draft status pick 42...however he could bring like a 55-60 pick...IDK if we would trade him for that...but I think i'm pretty dead on about his value.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 06:06 PM
Burnett also has 2 torn ACLs on his resume.

I dont think we're gonna trade any players.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 06:06 PM
The only reason Burnett has a mid 2nd round grade...is because of the lack of depth at OLB in this draft...I mean think about it....Beason, Timmons, PP, and then the next best guy is some scrub from Hamton....Durant doesn't have half the talent that Burnett does. So I don't think he would better his draft status pick 42...however he could bring like a 55-60 pick...IDK if we would trade him for that...but I think i'm pretty dead on about his value.

Sorry I have to disagree with ya Thule, currently in the NFL players are like new cars, soon as you drive em off the lot the value goes way down. I don't see either of these guys fetching more than a 3rd on draft day. Like I said maybe to a team facing an injury situation later, but on saturday I don't buy it.

thule
04-26-2007, 06:08 PM
Burnett also has 2 torn ACLs on his resume.

I dont think we're gonna trade any players.

I don't either...but I do have JJ as my slight chance pick.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 06:11 PM
I don't either...but I do have JJ as my slight chance pick.

I agree with you there.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 06:11 PM
I don't either...but I do have JJ as my slight chance pick.

Burnett has huge value to Chicago and Tampa Bay right now.

Chicago could pick up Burnett, give us their number 1 and trade Briggs for Washington's #1.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 06:14 PM
I don't either...but I do have JJ as my slight chance pick.

We have to unload him at some point if we manage to get AD or Lynch, the question is does his stock go way down if we add one of those guys. Teams know we don't need him so they might not be as willing to give up a high pick. Would be an interesting situation.

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 06:15 PM
Burnett has huge value to Chicago and Tampa Bay right now.

Chicago could pick up Burnett, give us their number 1 and trade Briggs for Washington's #1.

What? Burnett for a #1.... that would never happen.

Briggs is coming off a 125+ tackle pro bowl season; Burnett is a back up with a history of horrific injuries.

jdnoyes
04-26-2007, 06:16 PM
Burnett has huge value to Chicago and Tampa Bay right now.

Chicago could pick up Burnett, give us their number 1 and trade Briggs for Washington's #1.

Ummm....if you think Burnett could fetch a 1st round pick, even a late one, well....... not gonna bag on you if thats your opinion good for you.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 06:19 PM
What? Burnett for a #1.... that would never happen.

Briggs is coming off a 125+ tackle pro bowl season; Burnett is a back up with a history of horrific injuries.

OK, not sure you followed. Let me try again.

Briggs would be traded to get a top 10 pick. Chicago gets a number 1.

Chicago now has a big hole at OLB. Burnett can play and is a Tampa 2 OLB. Chciago would need to decide whether a Poslusny is better than a Burnett. NOT. Burnett is 23 and Poz also blew out his knee

So ............... not crazy. Tampa 2 OLB are in short supply this draft.

Im_a_Romosexual
04-26-2007, 06:21 PM
Burnett is 23 and Poz also blew out his knee


Burnett did it twice...

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 06:21 PM
OK, not sure you followed. Let me try again.

Briggs would be traded to get a top 10 pick. Chicago gets a number 1.

Chicago now has a big hole at OLB. Burnett can play and is a Tampa 2 OLB. Chciago would need to decide whether a Poslusny is better than a Burnett. NOT. Burnett is 23 and Poz also blew out his knee

So ............... not crazy. Tampa 2 OLB are in short supply this draft.

No, I pretty much got you...Burnett, would never conjure us up a 1st rounder, regardless of how large a need it would be for the Bears.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 06:21 PM
Ummm....if you think Burnett could fetch a 1st round pick, even a late one, well....... not gonna bag on you if thats your opinion good for you.

So who is going to play OLB for Chicago? Go with a Burnett or go with a Pos?

Again, not saying Burnett is a number 1. Just saying a Burnett is perfect fit for a bad situation Chicago may be in.

This draft is light in Tampa 2 OLB and that is Burnett if you ask me.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 06:23 PM
No, I pretty much got you...Burnett, would never conjure us up a 1st rounder, regardless of how large a need it would be for the Bears.


Deion Branch went for 1 and I think he is at best mediocre. Not likely but not that crazy either.

Burnett can play. He needs the opportunity. Let us leave it at that.

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 06:24 PM
Ummm....if you think Burnett could fetch a 1st round pick, even a late one, well....... not gonna bag on you if thats your opinion good for you.

So what about Burnett for Tampa's 2nd rounder? What do you think about that?

Im_a_Romosexual
04-26-2007, 06:27 PM
Burnett would be worth a 4th rounder if he were traded for a draft pick. He has had 2 knee surgeries, he hasn't performed (although he never really has had a good opportunity), and no GM would be dumb enough to do that trade for a second rounder let alone a first

robert_in_bigd
04-26-2007, 06:34 PM
Burnett would be worth a 4th rounder if he were traded for a draft pick. He has had 2 knee surgeries, he hasn't performed (although he never really has had a good opportunity), and no GM would be dumb enough to do that trade for a second rounder let alone a first

Fair enuff. I guess I value Burnett very highly.

Im_a_Romosexual
04-26-2007, 06:39 PM
Fair enuff. I guess I value Burnett very highly.

I like him too, but a first or second is insanely high for him

HEISMANHERSCHEL
04-26-2007, 07:36 PM
I am glad we are all not in the war room. All of us are split on who is good and who isn't. Can you imagine if we were in there? We would probably miss out pick, just like the Vikqueens did a few years ago.:)

Paul
04-26-2007, 07:57 PM
I am glad we are all not in the war room. All of us are split on who is good and who isn't. Can you imagine if we were in there? We would probably miss out pick, just like the Vikqueens did a few years ago.:)

I would dominate you guys. :)

M.O.T.H.
04-26-2007, 07:59 PM
I would dominate you guys. :)

pfttttt....:)

thule
04-27-2007, 05:13 AM
It would be fun...that is for sure.