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10-01-2006, 02:10 PM
me and my friend are arguing over whos the best CB in the league.

he says its Deangelo Hall, i say its Champ Bailey.

then he says bailey is too old and i told him hes only 28 and he still said too old. I would take Champ Bailey over any CB in the NFL right now.

who do you think is the best CB?

remix 6
10-01-2006, 02:11 PM
Champ Bailey. A great QB like Tom Brady stayed completely away from him and Champ has been the best for quiet some time now. Hall has the potential to be in a year or 2 but not today

Basileus777
10-01-2006, 02:13 PM
Champ Bailey. A great QB like Tom Brady stayed completely away from him and Champ has been the best for quiet some time now. Hall has the potential to be in a year or 2 but not today

Bailey is the best, but that example isn't great. Obviously Brady isn't going to count on Troy Brown to beat out Bailey.

10-01-2006, 02:15 PM
Champ Bailey. A great QB like Tom Brady stayed completely away from him and Champ has been the best for quiet some time now. Hall has the potential to be in a year or 2 but not today

Bailey is the best, but that example isn't great. Obviously Brady isn't going to count on Troy Brown to beat out Bailey.Still, he didn't even look that way during the game.

Homicide
10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

ShutDwn
10-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Hall isn't even second best. Stop overrating him.

JETS5128
10-01-2006, 02:39 PM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

No, he got all those off of gambles, he got burned twice as many times as the picks he got

remix 6
10-01-2006, 02:42 PM
scientific football book says he allowed least YPC average or up in top 3 i believe..you guys are underrating him because hes not a Jet anymore

JETS5128
10-01-2006, 02:44 PM
scientific football book says he allowed least YPC average or up in top 3 i believe..you guys are underrating him because hes not a Jet anymore

No, i watched the games, there is no stat for trying to jump a route and getting beat

ShutDwn
10-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

He was in years before, but you can't judge CBs by INTs.

Because Deltha Oneal would be considerd a top corner.

A lot of Hall's INTs came from huge over throws.

10-01-2006, 02:48 PM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

INT's are a bad way to measure how good a CB is. Ty Law is not even top 15

jkpigskin
10-01-2006, 02:54 PM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

INT's are a bad way to measure how good a CB is. Ty Law is not even top 15


i agree with the int comment

champ is the best currently but deangleo hall is well on his way to becoming #1

DraftMichaelHuff
10-01-2006, 03:14 PM
Hall played another great game today covering Fitzgerald as well as its possible to cover fitzgerald, he had numerous pass deflection and a vital INT return for a TD
Best CB is still Bailey because of his consistancy but no for long, by that i mean i think my answer would be HALL if this was week 16

Splat
10-01-2006, 03:16 PM
Champ Bailey is the best all around CB he will shut down your best WR and help stop the run.

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 03:17 PM
Terrance Newman, He hasnt been beat for a touchdown pass since the 2004 season.

Denver Bronco99
10-01-2006, 03:28 PM
i mean no homer but after watching the pat game...it shows why champ is the best...he gets respect by all the QB he was not tested at all but once in that cover 2 play and still was not a complettion...he took away a whole half of the field


and not trying to take away anything from hall i actually get to see alot of atl games with sunday ticket, and he gets alot of his INTS from tipped balls not him jumping a route or somthing..

GB12
10-01-2006, 03:32 PM
Al Harris. Hes the best CB in the NFL how can you not even have him as an option. Even Chad Johnson says he's the best, how much more proof do you want.

I am not serious about any of the above.

Splat
10-01-2006, 03:35 PM
I am not serious about any of the above.

Thank God!

remix 6
10-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Al Harris. Hes the best CB in the NFL how can you not even have him as an option. Even Chad Johnson says he's the best, how much more proof do you want.

I am not serious about any of the above.

chad johnson lies. he said he was gonna knock Harrison's helmet off and when he came near him before..he ducked and went down on his own

Boston
10-01-2006, 03:44 PM
scientific football book says he allowed least YPC average or up in top 3 i believe..you guys are underrating him because hes not a Jet anymore

No, i watched the games, there is no stat for trying to jump a route and getting beat

So that means that if a quarterback always throws screen passes or dumpoff passes and his RB's take it all the way each time, he is the best QB in the league?

Staubach12
10-01-2006, 04:27 PM
Age has nothing to do with talent. Your friend is an idiot. He's not good because he's old...psh.

Shane P. Hallam
10-01-2006, 04:29 PM
Champ is still there, but no CB is shutdown and sometimes he gets burned too. My homerself thinks Ike Taylor is underrated, but nowhere near the top of course, but he's young...

njx9
10-01-2006, 04:42 PM
right this very minute? champ wins.

next year? i think deangelo hall could make some VERY good arguments for being number one, assuming that nothing changes between now and then.

ty law at #1 based on ints is a complete joke.

terrance newman not getting beat for a TD is a deceptive stat, unless you can give me a good reason that he doesn't always match up on a team's #1 WR like champ and deangelo do.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-01-2006, 04:46 PM
Terrance Newman, He hasnt been beat for a touchdown pass since the 2004 season.

Not a Homer pick at all, I am a Ravens fans so I could easily say Chris McCalister but the best Corner right now is Champ but DHall is gonna be a stud for the next decade.

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 04:50 PM
Terrance Newman, He hasnt been beat for a touchdown pass since the 2004 season.

Not a Homer pick at all, I am a Ravens fans so I could easily say Chris McCalister but the best Corner right now is Champ but DHall is gonna be a stud for the next decade.

Sarcasm?

Too me there is no definitive "Best" cornerback in the NFL right now. Terrance newman isnt the best but he is up there. Just watch him play.

ShutDwn
10-01-2006, 04:59 PM
Champ is still there, but no CB is shutdown

No one is like me. :lol:


Unless you are a scout who has looked at every CB in every situation with absolutely zero bias, then I don't think you can determine who is best.

dcarey20
10-01-2006, 05:42 PM
Chris McAlister should get some mention...anyone who has watched him thus far knows what I'm talking about. I'm not being a homer.

-He shut down Galloway - 0 catches - and he has a 50 yard INT return for TD
-Randy Moss only had 2 catches against him
-Cleveland Game: he makes the play of the game as he intercepted a Frye pass that gave the Ravens the ball back.
-Today: Goes up against McCardell and he has 0 catches

Daniel Adams
10-01-2006, 05:54 PM
I say after watching Hall cover Larry Fitzgerald today, Hall is on his way to being a top 3 corner in the NFL. He shut him out for most of the day and plays with a passion. I haven't seen enough of this to say that he's better than Champ Bailey, though. I'd say Bailey is the best shutdown WR in the NFL though.

-DA

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 05:56 PM
McAlister is right up there in the top 5 in my books...

Daniel Adams
10-01-2006, 06:11 PM
McAlister is heavily gifted and a top 3 CB but I think he's a little too aggressive at times and you can't rank him above Champ Bailey. I'd say he's 2nd with Rashean Mathis or Nate Clements as 3rd. Not sure between the last two. DeAngelo would wrap up my top five.

sodar21
10-01-2006, 06:23 PM
Top 5 (no order):
Chris McAlister
Nate Clements
Champ Bailey
Antoine Winfield
Ken Lucas

10-01-2006, 06:40 PM
Hall played another great game today covering Fitzgerald as well as its possible to cover fitzgerald, he had numerous pass deflection and a vital INT return for a TD
Best CB is still Bailey because of his consistancy but no for long, by that i mean i think my answer would be HALL if this was week 16i said no homer picks.

jackalope
10-01-2006, 07:22 PM
Bailey is the best CB in the leauge

Shiver
10-01-2006, 07:34 PM
Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

JETS5128
10-01-2006, 07:38 PM
scientific football book says he allowed least YPC average or up in top 3 i believe..you guys are underrating him because hes not a Jet anymore

No, i watched the games, there is no stat for trying to jump a route and getting beat

So that means that if a quarterback always throws screen passes or dumpoff passes and his RB's take it all the way each time, he is the best QB in the league?

?

D4rk 0ne
10-01-2006, 07:46 PM
Bailey is number 1. Chris McCallister, IMO, is 2... Clements is 3.

keylime_5
10-01-2006, 08:06 PM
I think Hall is better than Bailey, or at least I'd rather have Hall on my team anyways. Rashean Mathis is pretty darn good too

HawkeyeFan
10-01-2006, 08:21 PM
Champ Bailey hands down.

njx9
10-01-2006, 08:27 PM
Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

that's not true across the board. certain schemes don't keep a corner matched up. some coaches like to keep a guy matched up. for instance, until he got re-injured, bailey was on owens all game. foxworth spent 90% of the nfc championship game on cedrick wilson.

duckseason
10-01-2006, 08:30 PM
Champ Bailey hands down.

What exactly separates him so clearly from a guy like Antoine Winfield? His popularity?

10-01-2006, 08:31 PM
In terms of overall play i would say Nate Clements, but just purely coverman i would say Chris Gamble or Champ Bailey.

RCAChainGang
10-01-2006, 08:32 PM
I am kinda gettin sick of these threads... Like Sean Taylor of Brian Dawkins. It's always the older guy but the younger guy in a few years. Sigh....

Shiver
10-01-2006, 08:33 PM
Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

that's not true across the board. certain schemes don't keep a corner matched up. some coaches like to keep a guy matched up. for instance, until he got re-injured, bailey was on owens all game. foxworth spent 90% of the nfc championship game on cedrick wilson.

Pro Football Prospectus cataloged statistics on strategic tendencies, for example "CB1 on WR1." From last year: The Denver Broncos only had CB1, or Bailey, on the WR1 51% of the time, 9th most total in the NFL. The Falcons had Hall on the WR1 56% of the time, or 5th most in the NFL. So take that.

duckseason
10-01-2006, 08:34 PM
I am kinda gettin sick of these threads... Like Sean Taylor of Brian Dawkins. It's always the older guy but the younger guy in a few years. Sigh....

Yeah, there's rarely (if ever) a definitive answer. A real exercise in futility.

DHVF
10-01-2006, 08:37 PM
I am kinda gettin sick of these threads... Like Sean Taylor of Brian Dawkins. It's always the older guy but the younger guy in a few years. Sigh....I'd rather have Taylor for the present and future. :lol:

njx9
10-01-2006, 08:45 PM
Corner is a very difficult position to judge. Because no statistic covers, well, covering ability. All I know, no Receiver has been at all successful against Hall, and he's faced very good receivers. He's up there, but it's too subjective for any of the corners in today's game to be the definitive "best."

Also, to diffuse any potential re-buttals to that statement, Joey Galloway did all his damage away from Hall. Against popular belief, corners only play against the "1" receiver about 50% of the time, so you cannot just look at the statsbook and assume which yardage came against which corner. Such as the Terrell Owens game, he had three of his seven catches against zone defenses, not Hall.

that's not true across the board. certain schemes don't keep a corner matched up. some coaches like to keep a guy matched up. for instance, until he got re-injured, bailey was on owens all game. foxworth spent 90% of the nfc championship game on cedrick wilson.

Pro Football Prospectus cataloged statistics on strategic tendencies, for example "CB1 on WR1." From last year: The Denver Broncos only had CB1, or Bailey, on the WR1 51% of the time, 9th most total in the NFL. The Falcons had Hall on the WR1 56% of the time, or 5th most in the NFL. So take that.

sure, i believe that, i'm just saying that across the board, that's not a universsally appliable stat. for instance, does anyone think bailey followed troy brown around all game? i can't imagine there was any point. the same might go for the falcons playing the cardinals, where hall should cover either fitzgerald or boldin and it typically might (might because i don't know if mora thinks it does) not matter which hall is on.

on the other hand, in a big game, bailey is typically locked down on the #1. terrance newman on the other hand, is not because parcells does not believe in playing match-ups (*). i wouldn't blame bailey because we played some wr-poor teams last year.

* - from the dallas morning news, i can try to find the article if anyone cares.

The Unseen
10-01-2006, 08:47 PM
I've decided that determining a better defensive player is almost useless. Unless a player is completely dominant (Deion Sanders), you can't really know.

Number 10
10-01-2006, 08:48 PM
I'd take Hall over anyone.

Shiver
10-01-2006, 08:48 PM
Oh, okay njx9, I see your point. I didn't grasp what you were saying. Speaking of what you said; Owens was having a big game last year, then after half-time, Hall was on Owens the whole second half and shut him down.

10-01-2006, 09:05 PM
Oh, okay njx9, I see your point. I didn't grasp what you were saying. Speaking of what you said; Owens was having a big game last year, then after half-time, Hall was on Owens the whole second half and shut him down. :roll: you know McNabb was injured right?

dcarey20
10-01-2006, 09:12 PM
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
DeAngelo Hall
Ken Lucas
Dunta Robinson

P-L
10-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Rashean Mathis is a top 5 corner. He could very well be the most underrated player in football.

The Unseen
10-01-2006, 09:17 PM
Rashean Mathis is a top 5 corner. He could very well be the most underrated player in football.

I'm not sure about that...but he is making a case for elite status.

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 09:19 PM
Dunta Robinson and Ken Lucas? Lol

Dunta got scorched by Stallworth a couple times and totally bit on the McNabbs pump fakes. Ken Lucas, well good teams just dont let top 5 cornerbacks walk, he has some weaknesses and isnt a top 5 corner.

Top 5
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
Dre Bly
Terrence Newman
DeAngelo Hall

10-01-2006, 09:32 PM
Chris McAlister should get some mention...anyone who has watched him thus far knows what I'm talking about. I'm not being a homer.

-He shut down Galloway - 0 catches - and he has a 50 yard INT return for TD
-Randy Moss only had 2 catches against him
-Cleveland Game: he makes the play of the game as he intercepted a Frye pass that gave the Ravens the ball back.
-Today: Goes up against McCardell and he has 0 catchesyou forget that it was against the raiders that moss only had two receptions.and moss beat him in the endzone but walter overthrew him.

in the upcoming years fabion washinton will be a huge shutdown corner.

Shiver
10-01-2006, 09:35 PM
Chris McCallister is in the discussion for sure. He has rebounded from his sub-par season last year.

10-01-2006, 09:35 PM
Dunta Robinson and Ken Lucas? Lol

Dunta got scorched by Stallworth a couple times and totally bit on the McNabbs pump fakes. Ken Lucas, well good teams just dont let top 5 cornerbacks walk, he has some weaknesses and isnt a top 5 corner.

Top 5
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
Dre Bly
Terrence Newman
DeAngelo Halldre would probably be even better if he had not gone to detroit.

America
10-01-2006, 10:15 PM
Dunta Robinson and Ken Lucas? Lol

Dunta got scorched by Stallworth a couple times and totally bit on the McNabbs pump fakes. Ken Lucas, well good teams just dont let top 5 cornerbacks walk, he has some weaknesses and isnt a top 5 corner.

Top 5
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
Dre Bly
Terrence Newman
DeAngelo Hall

If you actually watched the game, C.C. Brown was the one who bit on the fake. Dunta has 0 help in the secondary, he's the only one who can do something. He's not top 5, but he's a good corner. And Ken Lucas is widely respected across the league and known for being a top 5 corner. He drastically improved his play in CAR, he fit better there, plus in SEA he was on bad defenses. He's great in run support and consistant in coverage, plus comes away with the big play. Champ is the best in the business, DHall is close, but he's not as good in run support. CMac has rebounded from a bad season, during which he just was angry and lazy.

Top 10
1. Champ Bailey
2. DeAngello Hall
3. Ken Lucas
4. Chris McAlister
5. Ronde Barber
(rest not necessarily in order)
6. Nate Clements
7. Al Harris
8. Samari Rolle
9. Rashean Mathis
10. It's like a 10 person tie.

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 10:23 PM
Dunta Robinson and Ken Lucas? Lol

Dunta got scorched by Stallworth a couple times and totally bit on the McNabbs pump fakes. Ken Lucas, well good teams just dont let top 5 cornerbacks walk, he has some weaknesses and isnt a top 5 corner.

Top 5
Champ Bailey
Chris McAlister
Dre Bly
Terrence Newman
DeAngelo Hall

If you actually watched the game, C.C. Brown was the one who bit on the fake. Dunta has 0 help in the secondary, he's the only one who can do something. He's not top 5, but he's a good corner. And Ken Lucas is widely respected across the league and known for being a top 5 corner. He drastically improved his play in CAR, he fit better there, plus in SEA he was on bad defenses. He's great in run support and consistant in coverage, plus comes away with the big play. Champ is the best in the business, DHall is close, but he's not as good in run support. CMac has rebounded from a bad season, during which he just was angry and lazy.

Top 10
1. Champ Bailey
2. DeAngello Hall
3. Ken Lucas
4. Chris McAlister
5. Ronde Barber
(rest not necessarily in order)
6. Nate Clements
7. Al Harris
8. Samari Rolle
9. Rashean Mathis
10. It's like a 10 person tie.

I did watch the game, actually a couple times and I wasnt just referring to one play. I know Brown got burnt to but Dunta was biting hard on pump fakes as well.

America
10-01-2006, 10:24 PM
I did watch the game, actually a couple times and I wasnt just referring to one play. I know Brown got burnt to but Dunta was biting hard on pump fakes as well.

I got what you're saying, he did make some errors, but he takes a lot of chances, which is why he was so good as a #2 when AGlenn was in Houston. But we had no pass rush in the first games, and no help from anyone else. He would be dominant on the Bears.

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 10:26 PM
Yeah, Hes good but I wouldnt label Dunta Robinson as a top 5 or top 10 cornerback for that matter. Maybe a couple years down the road who knows, hes still a pretty young guy.

America
10-01-2006, 10:28 PM
Yeah, Hes good but I wouldnt label Dunta Robinson as a top 5 or top 10 cornerback for that matter. Maybe a couple years down the road who knows, hes still a pretty young guy.

Yeah he's not top 10 yet, he's 24, so he's got time to get better. He will be better as the Texans D as a whole gets better.

dre1614
10-01-2006, 10:28 PM
TNew is definatly a top 5 corner possibly top 3.

he was the best "cover" corner last year by Dr Z
and was the most consistent ccorner last year by KC Joyner.

So far this year he is right where he left off

Pokeys
10-01-2006, 10:40 PM
TNew is definatly a top 5 corner possibly top 3.

he was the best "cover" corner last year by Dr Z
and was the most consistent ccorner last year by KC Joyner.

So far this year he is right where he left off

Yes finally somebody giving T-New some love! And that pass interference on him today was bull. Terrence is easily one of the most underrated players in the NFL, even Madden says that. And im not going to deny the fact that his first two years in the league he looked like bad draft pick.

Basileus777
10-01-2006, 11:19 PM
I don't get the Dunta Robinson hype. The guy has only had 1/2 of a good year. He isn't close to being elite.

And Ken Lucas and Terrence Newman are both top 5 cbs.

duckseason
10-01-2006, 11:23 PM
TNew is definatly a top 5 corner possibly top 3.

he was the best "cover" corner last year by Dr Z
and was the most consistent ccorner last year by KC Joyner.

So far this year he is right where he left off

Yeah, but he's never been mentored by Darrell Green or featured on "6 days to Sunday", so he's yet to reach elite status.

bltbjdd
10-02-2006, 12:11 AM
Any Bills fan could point out that Clements is not as good as advertised, he is a great tackler and probably top 15 in coverage maybe overall, probably 11th corner in the league, same goes for Winfield when he left and signed with the Vikings, he is good, but his tackling abilities as a corner make people go nuts and he gets a little over rated as a cover corner.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAllister
3. DeAngelo Hall
4. Terrence Newman
5. Ken Lucas
6. RasheanMathis
7. Dunta Robinson
8. Marcus Trufant
9. Ronde Barber
10. Sheldon Brown

Thats just me though. I even put Ronde up there even though he pretty much has only ever played cover-2 in his entire career.

nobodyinparticular
10-02-2006, 12:31 AM
Raiders CB Fabian Washington was getting hyped by a lot of media as ready to "make the lead to shutdown corner" this season and he is pretty darn good so far.

Not anywhere near the top 10 here, but if you get a chance, take a look at him. The Raiders aren't completely devoid of talent.

elway777
10-02-2006, 12:55 AM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

Interceptions dont tell how great a corner is,just look at Deltha O'neal.

Mr. Stiller
10-02-2006, 04:31 AM
Homerism or not Ike Taylor should be on the top 10 either this season or next.

Chris McAlister should get some mention...anyone who has watched him thus far knows what I'm talking about. I'm not being a homer.

-He shut down Galloway - 0 catches - and he has a 50 yard INT return for TD
-Randy Moss only had 2 catches against him
-Cleveland Game: he makes the play of the game as he intercepted a Frye pass that gave the Ravens the ball back.
-Today: Goes up against McCardell and he has 0 catches

And during Crunch time last season Ike Taylor shut down Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Rod Smith and Darrell Jackson. Not to mention how many people during the season. if the Kid had a pair of hands he'd be great with INT's but he can't catch a cold. However, his physicallity and coverage abilities are on par with almost every guy everyone is putting on their top 10 list. I would say he's a much more raw Marcus Trufant. So he should be getting some top 10 love.

GermanSaint
10-02-2006, 09:28 AM
Top 5 (no order):
Chris McAlister
Nate Clements
Champ Bailey
Antoine Winfield
Ken Lucas

winfield is garbage , for about 2 years he gave up 75% of the passes throwed on his side. and that was AFTER he received the big contract from the vikes

Nitschke-Hawk
10-02-2006, 09:37 AM
is Chris Gamble top 10 yet?

DMWSackMachine
10-02-2006, 12:15 PM
We need to retire this argument. Fact is that not a single person on this forum is qualified to argue this point. The only way you can accurately judge a corner's ability is by watching his game film. The vast majority of the work that a corner does is done OFF CAMERA from the network feeds. The only time you see them is when the ball is thrown their way, and even then you rarely see what happens leading up to the pass.

As a result of all this, we are basically forced to rely upon the evaluations of others. This is the tricky part. Most laymen watch maybe 1 or 2 programs a week on the NFL. They see some tool like Mark Schlereth or Sean Salisbury, who spend much more time in production meetings and makeup chair than they do in the film room, hyping up someone based upon ONE OR TWO plays that they pulled out of their ass, and the layman's response is "wow, that CB is bad ass". I would caution against this. The people to trust are the types who are light on the "media" part, and heavy on the "expert" part. KC Joyner seems pretty legit to me. He doesn't spend ass loads of time in front of the camera yapping at the mouth. He studies. Scott seems to know the college guys quite thoroughly, but it doesn't sound like he watches much coach's film on the NFL. He seems fairly reliable to me, though, when he does his homework.

There are others out there that I trust, but if people are listening to the Mark Schlereths, Salisburys, and Mike Golic's of the world then you are being tricked. That's all I'm gonna say. That someone like Hall, who has been burned multiple times in the last two years, could make a Pro Bowl and be considered as a top player at his position is nothing if not a supreme testament to the misperceptions of the media on this subject. That's all I'm gonna say on this one.

Basileus777
10-02-2006, 12:18 PM
Homerism or not Ike Taylor should be on the top 10 either this season or next.

Chris McAlister should get some mention...anyone who has watched him thus far knows what I'm talking about. I'm not being a homer.

-He shut down Galloway - 0 catches - and he has a 50 yard INT return for TD
-Randy Moss only had 2 catches against him
-Cleveland Game: he makes the play of the game as he intercepted a Frye pass that gave the Ravens the ball back.
-Today: Goes up against McCardell and he has 0 catches

And during Crunch time last season Ike Taylor shut down Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Rod Smith and Darrell Jackson. Not to mention how many people during the season. if the Kid had a pair of hands he'd be great with INT's but he can't catch a cold. However, his physicallity and coverage abilities are on par with almost every guy everyone is putting on their top 10 list. I would say he's a much more raw Marcus Trufant. So he should be getting some top 10 love.

Ike is defintely on the way to becoming an elite CB. He has shut down Chad Johnson, what 4 times in the last 2 years? He has the same problem as Newman though, he doesn't get alot of INTs or have a loudmouth so he doesn't get the hype.

LonghornsLegend
10-02-2006, 12:34 PM
I gotta put T newman top 5, he is under rated for as fast as he is, he was a track star at k state, and is finally getting his fundamentals under his belt, i love how he plays...


its hard for me to say whose the best, id have to watch film, but champ and hall are probaly top 3

Mr. Stiller
10-02-2006, 02:29 PM
Homerism or not Ike Taylor should be on the top 10 either this season or next.

Chris McAlister should get some mention...anyone who has watched him thus far knows what I'm talking about. I'm not being a homer.

-He shut down Galloway - 0 catches - and he has a 50 yard INT return for TD
-Randy Moss only had 2 catches against him
-Cleveland Game: he makes the play of the game as he intercepted a Frye pass that gave the Ravens the ball back.
-Today: Goes up against McCardell and he has 0 catches

And during Crunch time last season Ike Taylor shut down Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Rod Smith and Darrell Jackson. Not to mention how many people during the season. if the Kid had a pair of hands he'd be great with INT's but he can't catch a cold. However, his physicallity and coverage abilities are on par with almost every guy everyone is putting on their top 10 list. I would say he's a much more raw Marcus Trufant. So he should be getting some top 10 love.

Ike is defintely on the way to becoming an elite CB. He has shut down Chad Johnson, what 4 times in the last 2 years? He has the same problem as Newman though, he doesn't get alot of INTs or have a loudmouth so he doesn't get the hype.

yea the kid doesn't have hands whatsoever. He dropped a gimme INT against miami. But when we need him most he comes up big (INT during the Ryan Clark hit on Chris Henry)

jsagan77
10-03-2006, 01:37 AM
I'm a skins fan and I say that Terrance Newman is the real deal.. In a year or maybe by next he will be the top CB in the leage but right now I believe that it is Hall. Bailey is overated with a capital 'O'. Don't get me wrong he is good, but what has he done lately that people are all over his pills for?


My rankings as of right now are

1. Hall
2. McCallister
3. Newman
4. Mathis
5. Bailey

Shiver
10-03-2006, 02:43 AM
Newman is a legit elite corner, as is Leigh Bodden. As for Ike Taylor, he has been eaten alive this season, I have seen two games and he definitely didn't look the part of an 'elite' corner.

Denver Bronco99
10-03-2006, 06:46 AM
I'm a skins fan and I say that Terrance Newman is the real deal.. In a year or maybe by next he will be the top CB in the leage but right now I believe that it is Hall. Bailey is overated with a capital 'O'. Don't get me wrong he is good, but what has he done lately that people are all over his pills for?


My rankings as of right now are

1. Hall
2. McCallister
3. Newman
4. Mathis
5. Bailey


lol he was a fianlist in dmvp last year..and he was injured with a disloacted shoulder...no he is healthy teams are not really even testing him...so i guess tacking half thje field away is nothing... :roll:

smittyjs
10-03-2006, 08:57 AM
Other Pacman :wink:

P-L
10-03-2006, 09:03 AM
Newman is a legit elite corner, as is Leigh Bodden. As for Ike Taylor, he has been eaten alive this season, I have seen two games and he definitely didn't look the part of an 'elite' corner.

If you consider Leigh Bodden an elite corner, may I ask who else you consider elite?

draftguru151
10-03-2006, 11:23 AM
I'd take D Hall over anyone else. Champ, Lucas, and Winfield are my other top guys.

Ward
10-03-2006, 11:24 AM
Chris McAlister.

Burned_By_Santana
10-03-2006, 05:59 PM
You all are all over DeAngelo Halls jock right now. Rashean Mathis is amazing. Him and D Hall will be the best in a couple of years.

The Legend
10-03-2006, 06:06 PM
im a Chris McAlister fan so i will go with as he is my fav cb also he was never tackle by a tight end :D

Nitschke-Hawk
10-03-2006, 06:30 PM
is Chris Gamble top 10 yet?

Denver Bronco99
10-03-2006, 07:17 PM
im a Chris McAlister fan so i will go with as he is my fav cb also he was never tackle by a tight end :D tacking that in consideration i would go out on a limb and argue that ben watson is probally faster then chris mccallister....

jsagan77
10-03-2006, 07:40 PM
I'm a skins fan and I say that Terrance Newman is the real deal.. In a year or maybe by next he will be the top CB in the leage but right now I believe that it is Hall. Bailey is overated with a capital 'O'. Don't get me wrong he is good, but what has he done lately that people are all over his pills for?


My rankings as of right now are

1. Hall
2. McCallister
3. Newman
4. Mathis
5. Bailey


lol he was a fianlist in dmvp last year..and he was injured with a disloacted shoulder...no he is healthy teams are not really even testing him...so i guess tacking half thje field away is nothing... :roll:






He was a finalist because of his name.. You as a Broncos fan should know that Baily isn't better (right now) than the other guys I listed.. Notice I didn't list put Lucas up there because he has sucked ass. Be unbiased for once..

njx9
10-03-2006, 07:55 PM
I'm a skins fan and I say that Terrance Newman is the real deal.. In a year or maybe by next he will be the top CB in the leage but right now I believe that it is Hall. Bailey is overated with a capital 'O'. Don't get me wrong he is good, but what has he done lately that people are all over his pills for?


My rankings as of right now are

1. Hall
2. McCallister
3. Newman
4. Mathis
5. Bailey


lol he was a fianlist in dmvp last year..and he was injured with a disloacted shoulder...no he is healthy teams are not really even testing him...so i guess tacking half thje field away is nothing... :roll:

He was a finalist because of his name.. You as a Broncos fan should know that Baily isn't better (right now) than the other guys I listed.. Notice I didn't list put Lucas up there because he has sucked ass. Be unbiased for once..

are you a stathead or have you not noticed that no one throws at him anymore? speaking of "unbiased" :roll:

we won't even go into last year as you've clearly got little to no idea what makes a good cornerback because youre too blinded by champ-sucksism.

yet another person who hasn't added anything interesting to a conversation.

ShutDwn
10-03-2006, 07:59 PM
I'm a skins fan and I say that Terrance Newman is the real deal.. In a year or maybe by next he will be the top CB in the leage but right now I believe that it is Hall. Bailey is overated with a capital 'O'. Don't get me wrong he is good, but what has he done lately that people are all over his pills for?


My rankings as of right now are

1. Hall
2. McCallister
3. Newman
4. Mathis
5. Bailey




lol he was a fianlist in dmvp last year..and he was injured with a disloacted shoulder...no he is healthy teams are not really even testing him...so i guess tacking half thje field away is nothing... :roll:






He was a finalist because of his name.. You as a Broncos fan should know that Baily isn't better (right now) than the other guys I listed.. Notice I didn't list put Lucas up there because he has sucked ass. Be unbiased for once..

Lucas is a top 3 corner right now.

I don't know where everyone is getting this "Deangelo hall is the most amazing corner ever" crap.

I guess everyone just believes everything he says.

Shiver
10-04-2006, 12:02 AM
Newman is a legit elite corner, as is Leigh Bodden. As for Ike Taylor, he has been eaten alive this season, I have seen two games and he definitely didn't look the part of an 'elite' corner.

If you consider Leigh Bodden an elite corner, may I ask who else you consider elite?

Bailey
Hall
Newman
Bodden
Mathis
McCallister

jsagan77
10-05-2006, 10:20 AM
Ken Lucas has sucked so bad against the run this year to the point that a rookie will be starting over him...

LonghornsLegend
10-05-2006, 01:41 PM
Newman is a legit elite corner, as is Leigh Bodden. As for Ike Taylor, he has been eaten alive this season, I have seen two games and he definitely didn't look the part of an 'elite' corner.

If you consider Leigh Bodden an elite corner, may I ask who else you consider elite?

Bailey
Hall
Newman
Bodden
Mathis
McCallister


your sig is awesome, it would be even better if it was a little bigger, and had a clip of deion doing his dance after a TD as well on the other side, and say something like passing the torch, just a thought :wink:

The Fat Kid
10-05-2006, 01:43 PM
i think ken lucas is one of the more underatted corners in the league.

Shiver
10-05-2006, 03:37 PM
Most overrated corner: Nate Clements. He's oft-targeted, teams throw towards him, they do not fear him at all.

d34ng3l021
10-06-2006, 10:34 PM
i think ken lucas is one of the more underatted corners in the league.

Still unde when he is benched for a 2nd or 3rd round rookie because his tackling sucks?

The Legend
10-07-2006, 12:05 AM
im a Chris McAlister fan so i will go with as he is my fav cb also he was never tackle by a tight end :D tacking that in consideration i would go out on a limb and argue that ben watson is probally faster then chris mccallister....

what you smoking can i get some of that?

chris is one of the fastest cb out there

and your trying to say Ben is faster?????

oh ya but realy can i get smoke of that

suff you smokeing???? :D :D :lol: :D :D

TheChampIsHere
10-07-2006, 02:24 AM
gotta go with Champ, he's been the best or one of the best CBs in the league every year for a long time now. He is a big time playmaker but also doesnt get beat often, he tackles well and he has all the tools.

But I gotta show love to my boy Ken Lucas, one of the most underrated players out there.

TheChampIsHere
10-07-2006, 02:25 AM
i think ken lucas is one of the more underatted corners in the league.

Still unde when he is benched for a 2nd or 3rd round rookie because his tackling sucks?

Where did you ever get the idea Ken Lucas' tackling sucks? IMO, he's the best run support/hard hitting CB in the league.

art vandelay
10-07-2006, 08:13 AM
Cover Corners:
DeAngelo Hall
Rashean Mathis

Zone Corners:
Ken Lucas
Ronde Barber

Tacklers:
Nate Clements
Antoine Winfield

Pokeys
10-22-2006, 02:32 PM
Deangelo Hall owned by Hines Ketchup Ward on a BATCH pass for a 70 yard touchdown pass... lol

remix 6
10-22-2006, 03:16 PM
asante samuel = 2nd best

best= champ

Memorex
10-22-2006, 04:05 PM
Al Harris. Hes the best CB in the NFL how can you not even have him as an option. Even Chad Johnson says he's the best, how much more proof do you want.

I am not serious about any of the above.

Al Harris is just physical he gets burned and has way too many penalties on him.

T-RICH49
10-22-2006, 05:31 PM
Ty Law. He had like what 10 interceptions last year. He has been one of the most consistant CBs over his career.

I agree

d34ng3l021
10-22-2006, 08:50 PM
i think ken lucas is one of the more underatted corners in the league.

Still unde when he is benched for a 2nd or 3rd round rookie because his tackling sucks?

Where did you ever get the idea Ken Lucas' tackling sucks? IMO, he's the best run support/hard hitting CB in the league.

This is a while back, but so was my post.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/20061003-0015-fbn-panthers-lucas.html

So yeah...

remix 6
10-22-2006, 09:08 PM
i think ken lucas is one of the more underatted corners in the league.

Still unde when he is benched for a 2nd or 3rd round rookie because his tackling sucks?

Where did you ever get the idea Ken Lucas' tackling sucks? IMO, he's the best run support/hard hitting CB in the league.

This is a while back, but so was my post.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/20061003-0015-fbn-panthers-lucas.html

So yeah...

yeah..he was hurt and they didnt think eh can tackle well enough to be starter while hurt so they put him in slot till hes healthy so he doesnt ahve to tackle as much. nt..just because Hall is overrated

Shiver
10-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Deangelo Hall owned by Hines Ketchup Ward on a BATCH pass for a 70 yard touchdown pass... lol


Most of the damage done through the air was away from Hall, except for that play.

Pokeys
10-22-2006, 09:42 PM
Deangelo Hall owned by Hines Ketchup Ward on a BATCH pass for a 70 yard touchdown pass... lol


Most of the damage done through the air was away from Hall, except for that play.

I know you want to defend you're boy and all but HALL was absolutely TORCHED in that game. He was beat on 3 touchdowns passes, 2 by Hines Ward and the other 1 by Washington. But hey at least he looked pretty while getting burnt... :roll:

Shiver
10-22-2006, 09:45 PM
Hines Ward had one td on Hall, one on Webster, one on Jimmy Williams. The Nate Washington TD was in the seam on zone coverage, DeAngelo couldn't quite come over in time from his Cover-3 shell, but couldn't, he wasn't "burned." Right now it is:

1. Champ Bailey
2. DeAngelo Hall

......


Everybody else, according to Scouts Inc.

Pokeys
10-22-2006, 09:48 PM
Well ill have to watch the tapes later but he did get torched a few times.

Shiver
10-22-2006, 09:49 PM
Yes he did, up until this point he hadn't given up a TD, Ward soundly beat him on that 70-yarder.

Windy
10-22-2006, 09:50 PM
Walt Harris...nuff said.

BPhilb
10-22-2006, 09:51 PM
Champ Baily is probalby still the best all things said...but being a Chiefs fan and getting to watch nearly every snap for Ty Law I'm not so sure that he isn't one of the best corners to ever play the game. His instincts are incredible and outside of him slipping on Sonotino Holms last year he has sniffed out every screen pass that has been thrown against us which is a play that killed us the last couple of years. I know he was a bit hobbled last year, but I can't understand why Jets fans always talk about how he was so bad last season. I'm not seeing that at all.

On the flip side Lenny Walls may be the worst DB to ever put on a uniform.

10-22-2006, 09:52 PM
i thought Hall was suppose to be super fast? Ward isn't the fastest WR in the league by far yet he outran hall?

Shiver
10-22-2006, 09:52 PM
Law is better this year than last, his foot injury kept him from 100% with the Jets last year.

snuff
10-22-2006, 10:12 PM
Charles Woodson.

He won the Heisman!

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-22-2006, 10:28 PM
Charles Woodson.

He won the Heisman!


Jason White>>Peyton Manning.

10-22-2006, 11:13 PM
Charles Woodson.

He won the Heisman!charles woodson always good as long as he can stay healthy thats why we had to let him go.

10-22-2006, 11:13 PM
Champ Baily is probalby still the best all things said...but being a Chiefs fan and getting to watch nearly every snap for Ty Law I'm not so sure that he isn't one of the best corners to ever play the game. His instincts are incredible and outside of him slipping on Sonotino Holms last year he has sniffed out every screen pass that has been thrown against us which is a play that killed us the last couple of years. I know he was a bit hobbled last year, but I can't understand why Jets fans always talk about how he was so bad last season. I'm not seeing that at all.

On the flip side Lenny Walls may be the worst DB to ever put on a uniform.fabian washington will be the champ bailey in a couple of years.

jsagan77
10-22-2006, 11:14 PM
Ok i'm here to eat crow.. Champ Bailey is the best CB in the league..

Shiver
10-22-2006, 11:30 PM
He is, no real way to argue against it. Although last year, with his injuries, he wasn't good.

BrownsTown
10-22-2006, 11:33 PM
Rashean Mathis.

Snaznits
10-22-2006, 11:37 PM
Ronde Barber! He had two TDS today!

Pit Bull #53
10-22-2006, 11:44 PM
Rashean Mathis.

Mathis is a stud no doubt, but I don't think he's the best. He seems to have trouble containing the quick, shifty receivers.

Champ is definately the best in my opinion. He's gotten to the point where he's basically just baiting QB's to throw the ball his way. With his speed and athleticism, he can stay in his backpedal longer than pretty much anyone else in the league and still keep up wit the WR before he actually has to turn and run, which lets him break on the underneath routes so well.

I'll take this moment to throw Reynaldo Hill under the bus. He's the polar opposite of Bailey, because he turns his hips to run with the WR after about 5 yards. That's why he gets eaten alive with comeback routes and 10-15 yard outs.

Pokeys
10-22-2006, 11:49 PM
Was anyone watch "NFL Countdown" On espn today before the games? lol

It showed when they were coming back from commercial a little clip of DeAngelo Hall talking to the camera as he was walking to the locker room I was guessing and he said something like "Im going to get 2 Picks, 1 Touchdown, and we are going to win".... Lol I laughed.

Namy
10-23-2006, 12:18 AM
In terms of best CB it's Champ no question. I think DeAngelo is similar to Champ at being a cover corner, but in supporting against the run, I've heard that Hall is not that great (I may be wrong, I dont watch ATL games). Bailey is a high level all around CB.

thetedginnshow
10-23-2006, 01:37 AM
It's without a doubt Kelly Jennings.

GO RUSKELL

Shiver
10-23-2006, 01:41 AM
In terms of best CB it's Champ no question. I think DeAngelo is similar to Champ at being a cover corner, but in supporting against the run, I've heard that Hall is not that great (I may be wrong, I dont watch ATL games). Bailey is a high level all around CB.


I'd give the edge to Bailey, but Hall is no slouch in tackling abilities. Overall, Hall is getting better each year, but when healthy Champ is still the best and will be until he gets older.

Romarville
10-23-2006, 07:14 PM
Champ is hands down the best. If you think Hall is better, then go ask Hines Ward how great Hall is. IMO Champ is one of the best of all time.