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freebirdsrams02
04-29-2007, 08:09 PM
So now that the Draft is over which teams have had the best off-season.

lionsfan81
04-29-2007, 08:18 PM
So now that the Draft is over which teams have had the best off-season.

patriots and san fran, no doubt about that.

MasterShake
04-29-2007, 08:19 PM
patriots and san fran, no doubt about that.

without a doubt, SF and NE.

See how I reworded that to form my own opinion.

Wootylicous
04-29-2007, 08:21 PM
Bills have a good one for sure

thule
04-29-2007, 08:32 PM
I don't know about best. But just to add some input.

Dallas's biggest need going into the offseason was backup QB and a mauler RG.
They landed Davis who they got ripped for but he was a local guy and actually has good remarks from playing inside vs. outside.
Brad Johnson as a proven player to spot start if needed. Not to mentor Romo.
We resigned our C Gurode before FA...and got a steal money wise which many people don't realize.
We also resigned our RT Columbo who was argueably our best offensive line player for a 2 year 1 million dollar deal.

In the draft we got out pass rusher that Wade "needed" for our defense. Another high character guy.
Marten can play 4 positions along the line..gave us a swing tackle we lost in Fabini.
Future LT in Free which was a overlooked need by most.
Got out future kicker and current KOS in Folk.
Landed our nickel replacement for Glenn in Brown late in the draft.

As far as assessing needs in the offseason...I would say dallas has had an A. Maybe not the best...but definatly top 1/3 of the league.

KILLERSANTA
04-29-2007, 08:35 PM
I think the lions had the best Draft ;)

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
04-29-2007, 08:39 PM
The Browns had a pretty good offseason, along with NE, SF, ATL, Detroit, and the Jets.

HawkeyeFan
04-29-2007, 08:39 PM
San Fransisco. But I'll add some input because its my job.


Rams: Additions through Free Agency.
WR Drew Bennett
TE Randy McMichael
LB Chris Draft
S Todd Johnson
DE James Hall
WR/KR/PR Dante Hall
CB Mike Rumph
CB Lenny Walls
RB Travis Minor
P Donnie Jones

Rams: Additions through Draft:
DL Adam Carriker
FB/HB Brian Leonard
CB Jonathan Wade
C Dustin Fry
DT Clifton Ryan
OT Ken Shackleford
DT Keith Jackson (Possibly the steal of Day 2)
WR Derek Stanley

Rams: Subtractions
Kevin Curtis
Shaun McDonald
Brandon Green

KWill93
04-29-2007, 08:43 PM
New England.

RaiderNation
04-29-2007, 09:09 PM
New England
49ers
Raiders

757Dawg
04-29-2007, 09:27 PM
The New England Patriots have had a phenomenal offseason.

Call me a homer if you will though, but I feel the Browns had the best 'overall' offseason.

Ask any Browns fan that has followed this team. Since 1999 we have struggled to put even just a quality offensive line on the field. The Tim Couch saga was a disaster in large part because of the lack of importance placed on the guys up front. The David Carr era in Houston is eerily similar. If you draft a QB high, you better have a solid line in place to protect your investment. Both franchises chose a QB with their first pick, failed to address the OL, and suffered the consequences.

This offseason we signed Eric Steinbach, who is one of the premier OGs in this league and is still just 27 years of age. His presence alone will make the OL better as we have gotten putrid play from our guards in recent years.

Then we hit the grand slam and drafted Joe Thomas. Someone who is dubbed as a bookend left tackle who will start for the next 10+ years. When you receive comparisons to Tony Boselli, you're a special player.

LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Eric Steinbach

I know I speak on behalf of all Browns fans when I say, "Oh....my.....God."

And then we just happened to draft a franchise caliber QB in Brady Quinn, someone who is about as NFL ready as a college QB can be. Mentioned in the same breath as Carson Palmer and Tom Brady.

Phil Savage, I thank you. In just a matter of months you have changed the entire dynamics of the Cleveland Browns. We've been suffering for years, but I think this is when it all comes to together and we finally bring the Browns back to the level where they should be.

rainbeaukid2
04-29-2007, 09:42 PM
San Francisco

-offseason acquisitions
tully banta-cain
michael lewis
nate clements
ashlie lelie
darrell jackson

-draft
patrick willis
joe staley
jason hill
ray mcdonald
jay moore
dashon goldson
joe cohen
tarell brown
thomas clayton

with this offseason, the niners filled basically all of their needs including
SS-michael lewis
cb-nate clements,tarrell brown
OT-joe staley
RB-thomas clayton
LB-jay moore, patrick willis, tully banta-cain
WR-ashley lelie, darrell jackson, jason hill
FS-dashon goldson
DE-ray mcdonald
NT-joe cohen

with this offseason, the niners filled all of their needs and now have very few pressing needs

MasterShake
04-29-2007, 09:48 PM
San Francisco

-offseason acquisitions
tully banta-cain
michael lewis
nate clements
ashlie lelie
darrell jackson

-draft
patrick willis
joe staley
jason hill
ray mcdonald
jay moore
dashon goldson
joe cohen
tarell brown
thomas clayton

with this offseason, the niners filled basically all of their needs including
SS-michael lewis
cb-nate clements,tarrell brown
OT-joe staley
RB-thomas clayton
LB-jay moore, patrick willis, tully banta-cain
WR-ashley lelie, darrell jackson, jason hill
FS-dashon goldson
DE-ray mcdonald
NT-joe cohen

with this offseason, the niners filled all of their needs and now have very few pressing needs

All very true, but don't forget NT Aubrayo Franklin. ;)

Don Vito
04-29-2007, 09:55 PM
I am a Pats fan and we did have a great off-season. We added a great deal of talent into our WR corps (Randy Moss, donte Stallworth, Wes Welker, and Kelly Washington) to help out Tom Brady. We needed a safety and we picked up versatile Brandon Meriweather who can play both spots ad also corner. We needed a DE/OLB so we picked up perhaps one of the best 'tweeners in the game, Adailus Thomas. But we really failed to address one of our biggest needs, ILB. Tedy Bruschi shouldn't be playing football anymore, you can see it every time he steps on the field. He is old and worn out, he had a great career but must end it before he really hurts himself. Vrabel is solid, but he is getting up there in age and wear as well.

The draft was really a confusing ordeal. We traded away 2 out of our 3 day 1 picks. We used our first pick to take Brandon Meriweather, which was great. We also traded our 4th for Randy Moss, which appears to be a good move. The rest of the draft was basically used to add depth at already strong positions and to let the new players sit and develop.

Hopefully the team has enough ammo to gear up for a super bowl run, the Patriots still have a bad taste in their mouthes from the way last season ended.

Xiomera
04-29-2007, 09:57 PM
Detroit improved . . . their only significant subtraction was backup safety Terrance Holt.

I'd say they are top ten in terms of most improved this offseason, but I still don't see us winning more than 6 games in 2007.

Billingsley26
04-29-2007, 09:57 PM
Thought Buffalo had a great Offseason. As bad as many think it is, it really wasnt.

Lost-
Willis Mcgahee
Nate Clements
Takeo Spikes
London Fletcher-Baker
Kelly Holcomb

Gained-
Derrick Dockery
Langston Walker
Jason Whittle
Darwin Walker

Draft picks-
Marshawn Lynch
Paul Posluszny
Trent Edwards
John Wendling
AJ Wright
CJ Ah You
Derrick Schouman

We lost 2 LB, Spikes and Fletcher. Spikes was on the downside, and Ellison is an up and coming LB and should be more than a replacement. Fletcher racked up alot of tackles, but many were WAY off the LOS. Pos will perform much better than Fletcher did, as Pos will be playing the MLB. We lost Willis, who was a cancer to the team and wasnt at all near the hype he made himself out to be. Lynch should be more than an adequate replacement for him along with Thomas and Wright. The OL was upgraded HUGE. Should help the run game, JP Losman get time, and let the TE be free so they dont have to stay in and block. We lost NAte Clements, who I think was the biggest lost. But for a cover 2 corner, he wasnt worth 80 million. Ashton Youboty is still solid, and will be good as the cover 2 corner. I think they had a very solid off season.

BuckNaked
04-29-2007, 09:58 PM
Vinny Ciurciu + Vishante Shiancoe = Championship

portermvp84
04-29-2007, 10:30 PM
I can tell you who had the worst off season the Packers.

rainbeaukid2
04-29-2007, 10:56 PM
Detroit improved . . . their only significant subtraction was backup safety Terrance Holt.

I'd say they are top ten in terms of most improved this offseason, but I still don't see us winning more than 6 games in 2007.

they also lost dre bly

PACKmanN
04-29-2007, 11:19 PM
I can tell you who had the worst off season the Packers.

trying to take a cheap shot like how i did lol, we signed our own, Jenkins and Barnett so im happy with what we did.

Football Fan
04-29-2007, 11:41 PM
I can tell you who had the worst off season the Packers.
Agreed, absolutely terrible.

BoltsOnTheBeach
04-30-2007, 05:36 AM
Chargers certainly used the term off-season pretty literally. No one acquired in FA, but resigning a few quality players, and no movement of Michael Turner....

Then comes draft day and with the first pick they use it on a guy projected by many as a late 2nd to early 3rd rounder.

Then give up a bunch of picks to acquire Eric Weddle, who i definitely like but would have rather taken 1st over Davis.


way off-season guys

Non_Sequitur
04-30-2007, 06:01 AM
Thought Buffalo had a great Offseason. As bad as many think it is, it really wasnt.

Lost-
Willis Mcgahee
Nate Clements
Takeo Spikes
London Fletcher-Baker
Kelly Holcomb

Gained-
Derrick Dockery
Langston Walker
Jason Whittle
Darwin Walker

Draft picks-
Marshawn Lynch
Paul Posluszny
Trent Edwards
John Wendling
AJ Wright
CJ Ah You
Derrick Schouman

We lost 2 LB, Spikes and Fletcher. Spikes was on the downside, and Ellison is an up and coming LB and should be more than a replacement. Fletcher racked up alot of tackles, but many were WAY off the LOS. Pos will perform much better than Fletcher did, as Pos will be playing the MLB. We lost Willis, who was a cancer to the team and wasnt at all near the hype he made himself out to be. Lynch should be more than an adequate replacement for him along with Thomas and Wright. The OL was upgraded HUGE. Should help the run game, JP Losman get time, and let the TE be free so they dont have to stay in and block. We lost NAte Clements, who I think was the biggest lost. But for a cover 2 corner, he wasnt worth 80 million. Ashton Youboty is still solid, and will be good as the cover 2 corner. I think they had a very solid off season.



So by your own description, the long and short of it is that you guys only lost a little bit. That's not really something to be happy with.

portermvp84
04-30-2007, 09:33 AM
trying to take a cheap shot like how i did lol, we signed our own, Jenkins and Barnett so im happy with what we did.

Hey don't forget about Frank Walker, he's nothing to shake a stick at.

tomh1991
04-30-2007, 11:01 AM
PATRIOTS -
Adalius Thomas
Randy Moss
Donte Stallworth
Brandon Merriweather

NUFF SAID

JoeMontainya
04-30-2007, 11:34 AM
BROWNS HAD THE BEST:

horrible OL in 2006?

we got
LT - Joe Thomas
LG - Eric Steinbach
resigned Hank Fraley to play center

No future QB?
We drafted Brady Quinn to take over soon.

No RB?
Jamal Lewis is a great fill over Ruben Droughns and our OL is alot better than Baltimores and Lewis is now healthy.

DL problems?
We signed Robaire Smith at DE to replac a horrible Alvi nMckinley.
We also got our NT of the future in Saun Smith.
Finally a back-up OLB incase McGinnest gets hurt in Antwan Peek.

Secondary problems?
We drafted a 1st RD talent in Eric Wright.

tEk
04-30-2007, 11:37 AM
PATRIOTS -
Adalius Thomas
Randy Moss
Donte Stallworth
Brandon Merriweather

NUFF SAID
49ers NUFFF SAID l337 pwnz0rz`111!!!!111

portermvp84
04-30-2007, 01:56 PM
PATRIOTS -
Adalius Thomas
Randy Moss
Donte Stallworth
Brandon Merriweather

NUFF SAID

Thats pretty tough to beat. I'm taking the Patriots to win the SB.

#1chiefs_fan
04-30-2007, 07:12 PM
new england and san fran by far. They filled every weakness through the draft and FA.

Another team to look out for offensivly next year is the rams. Just about every skilled position is stacked and a they have a solid oline.

princefielder28
04-30-2007, 07:13 PM
Patriots are now the Super Bowl favorites in my book, thus they get the nod from me

Shiver
04-30-2007, 07:20 PM
The Falcons, obviously. Since it is en vogue to name whatever team you cheer for.

DChess
04-30-2007, 07:31 PM
i gotta go with the patriots, they offense is going to be unstoppable, brady had 4000+ without big name wideouts, imagine two of the best now

Bengals1690
04-30-2007, 08:23 PM
Bills have a good one for sure

yea cause losing your best rb, cb, and your 2 best lbs is always a great thing to do.



49ers and rams both had killer offseasons, but i like SF's draft more. But the deal for moss was pretty sweet. i say NE did.

cardsalltheway
04-30-2007, 08:24 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the Patriots.

Bengals1690
04-30-2007, 08:24 PM
BROWNS HAD THE BEST:

horrible OL in 2006?

we got
LT - Joe Thomas
LG - Eric Steinbach
resigned Hank Fraley to play center

No future QB?
We drafted Brady Quinn to take over soon.

No RB?
Jamal Lewis is a great fill over Ruben Droughns and our OL is alot better than Baltimores and Lewis is now healthy.

DL problems?
We signed Robaire Smith at DE to replac a horrible Alvi nMckinley.
We also got our NT of the future in Saun Smith.
Finally a back-up OLB incase McGinnest gets hurt in Antwan Peek.

Secondary problems?
We drafted a 1st RD talent in Eric Wright.


all the players will help in the future (except Lewis), but wont have an immediate impact.


btw who is Robaire Smith?

Jay
04-30-2007, 08:44 PM
I think the Patriots did a great job adding three HUGE pieces to a team that was already one of the top two or three in the league that were obvious positions of need, and while they made amazing moves that clearly will make them the Super Bowl favorites across the board from just about, if not every media outlet, they actually had the second best off-season.

The slam dunk best off-season of 2007 HAS to go to the San Francisco 49ers. The difference between what the Patriots did and what the 49ers did is separated by the fact that the Patriots were already in the Championship picture, regardless. San Francisco has completely turned over their team, adding three really solid WR's to the collection, making huge additions to the defensive back field and a whole new corps of LB's to go with Manny Lawson. On top of that, they were able to give Alex Smith more protection by bringing in a guy who will be one hell of a LT in Joe Staley.

These moves helped reinvent their franchise and will help turn them into a legit, playoff contender out of the NFC West as opposed to having been complete pushovers the last few years. The Patriots filled in the blanks on a three page essay, the 49ers wrote page three. I didn't like Ashlie Lelie as a #1, but he'll make an adequate #2 behind Darrell Jackson, and both are better than anything San Francisco had going for them last year...

Notredameleo
04-30-2007, 09:15 PM
It seems like everyone thinks the Lions had a great off-season except for Lions fans.

go_ravens94
04-30-2007, 10:06 PM
CJ is your offseason and that pulls you up to a B right there.

Anyway: Best Offseason:

Patriots

throwback54milkman
04-30-2007, 10:09 PM
i'm not saying this cuz I hate the Giants, but they probably had the worst offseason:

TheChampIsHere
05-01-2007, 01:47 AM
SF and NE obviously had big offseasons. They brought in all kinds of talent and really improved their teams and IMO, they both made quality signings and didnt just foolishly throw around money b/c they could afford to.

However, you dont have to sign marquee players to have a good offseason and a number of teams had low-key but very strong offseaons.

I personally liked what the Raiders did this off-season a lot. Al did a great job managing the situation IMO. The pickings were slim at HC but Al brought in a good young offensive mind and got an experienced OC to assist him. We didnt cash out for big name FAs, but we had some very solid additions to help our offense. Cooper Carlisle and Jeremy Newberry are both good vets who can help the O-line right away and Rhodes is a nice weapon to add to the offense and then in the draft we get our franchise QB, our TE and then possibly our future HB and a talented pass-rusher. We get Mike Williams and McCown for a 4th to solidify our QB situation and get a chance to revive BMWs career and then we dump Randy, even though I felt we shoulda got more for him. Overall though, we really changed the face of the team without making any huge moves and I like the direction were headed in.

TheChampIsHere
05-01-2007, 04:17 AM
Thought Buffalo had a great Offseason. As bad as many think it is, it really wasnt.

Lost-
Willis Mcgahee
Nate Clements
Takeo Spikes
London Fletcher-Baker
Kelly Holcomb

Gained-
Derrick Dockery
Langston Walker
Jason Whittle
Darwin Walker

Draft picks-
Marshawn Lynch
Paul Posluszny
Trent Edwards
John Wendling
AJ Wright
CJ Ah You
Derrick Schouman

We lost 2 LB, Spikes and Fletcher. Spikes was on the downside, and Ellison is an up and coming LB and should be more than a replacement. Fletcher racked up alot of tackles, but many were WAY off the LOS. Pos will perform much better than Fletcher did, as Pos will be playing the MLB. We lost Willis, who was a cancer to the team and wasnt at all near the hype he made himself out to be. Lynch should be more than an adequate replacement for him along with Thomas and Wright. The OL was upgraded HUGE. Should help the run game, JP Losman get time, and let the TE be free so they dont have to stay in and block. We lost NAte Clements, who I think was the biggest lost. But for a cover 2 corner, he wasnt worth 80 million. Ashton Youboty is still solid, and will be good as the cover 2 corner. I think they had a very solid off season.

I am very critical of the Bills' offseason, it was easily the worst in the league IMO.

My number 1 criticism of the Bills' offseason:
Overpaying for Dockery and Walker. Dockery gets nearly 50 mill, Walker nearly 40 mill. Dockery is a guy who never did anything special in his career until he was in a contract year and even then he wasnt that great. Even if he continues to play like he did in 06, hes still not worth the 49 mill and chances are he wont, that was a career year for him. And let me tell you as a Raider fan Walker is awful. He was probably the worst starting OT in the league last year, in fact, he was EASILY the worst. I watched him get blown by almost every third down last year. It actually got to a point where I could predict he would get blown by and his man would sack the QB on a consistent basis and I would be right a lot of the time. Those were by far the worst signings of this offseason...

Letting Clements walk I dont have a problem with. You free up cap room, and you have his replacement ready with Youboty, and it woulda cost a lot to get him to resign rather than hit the open market. And 80 mill is a lot to spend on a CB when youre runnig the cover 2. But if youre gonna use that freed up cap room to sign Walker and Dockery, then im very critical of letting Clements walk b/c he is a top 10 player at a valuable position while Walker is one of the worst RTs in the league and Dockery is a quite average player at one of the least important positions, and he has bust/1 year wonder written all over him. So the money management was awful is my point.

Letting Fletcher walk I believe is the right move. He was good but I think his stats were somewhat misleading and hes not as good as they expected. Crowell will slide inside and should be as good as or maybe even better than Fletcher.

The Spikes trade I dont like. OK, Spikes is not the player he used to be and he might have been a little bit on the outs with the team, but they pretty much gave him away and he was still a damn good LB on a team that was pretty thin at the position. The Eagles I think were gonna cut Darwin Walker at some point this offseason and I just feel the value on the trade was awful and its not as if Spikes was a poor character player who was hurting team chemistry that they needed to get rid of.

Then we've got the McGahee trade. I dont have a major problem with it. While Im a big fan of McGahee and think hes one of the more underrated backs in the league, I recognize he was on the outs with the Bills and would be a FA last year and they'd lose him without compensation so getting 2 3rd rounders for him was not a bad deal really.

What I dont like is the way they dealt with the HB situation afterwards. Bear in mind that I am a big Marshawn Lynch fan...But the way I feel about it is they trade away a former 1st round pick at HB who has proven himself to be an excellent starter at the position and get 2 3rd rounders for him. Keeping in mind that HB is one of the most easily replacable positions in the league, I expected they would adress HB thru FA and later in the draft. Instead, they use their first rounder on Lynch. To me, it doesnt make sense to draft a talented HB coming off a gruesome injury in the 1st round, watch him get healthy and develop him into a star and then after 1 dissapointing season trade him away for two 3rd rounders and spend another first rounder on a HB. Even though I like Lynch, I just dont like what they did overall.

One move I did like was trading up for Poz, I think he should help the team a lot and was a very nice value in the 2nd round. Trent Edwards I suppose was a good pick but Lossman had a nice year and I feel is the future at QB so Im not as hyped on the pick as some people are. I like the CJ Ah You pick late and John Wendling was a nice value and I like Wright. Very solid draft.

Overall, I think the Bills did a bad job of managing cap and made some poor choices. B/c they spent big dollars on Walker and Dockery they wont get high comp picks for losing Fletcher and Clements. They coulda upgraded that OL much more intelligently and efficiently and I think they should have added a WR and more depth at CB. Evans is a rising star but Price stinks and Parrish is only really a slot guy and there were a lot of solid wideouts on the market and in the draft who could have fit into their system and been effective no. 2s but the Bills passed on all of em and they dont have enough targets in their passing game. And while I disagreed with those that called CB a round 1 or even day 1 need, they didnt draft a single CB and are quite thin at the position now. Youboty, McGee, Kiwaukee Thomas and Greer just doesnt sound too good to me.

JCutlery
05-01-2007, 09:21 AM
I really like what Oakland has done. They once had a wreck of an offense and a clueless coach to go along with it. Since then, Al has given power (say in the draft?) to aspiring young offensive guru Lane Kiffin. With the defense already playing at a high level, they now have the pieces set in place to become a good, young team in the near future.

nobodyinparticular
05-01-2007, 10:14 AM
Gained-
Derrick Dockery
Langston Walker

The OL was upgraded HUGE. Should help the run game, JP Losman get time, and let the TE be free so they dont have to stay in and block.

Langston Walker should be in the negative column, not the positive column.

In all seriousness, the guy was flatout terrible last year. I kid you not. Sure he's huge, but the man just can't handle anything that moves faster than a tortoise. He gets beat on any and every kind of move and he's just not that special in run blocking either.

nobodyinparticular
05-01-2007, 10:15 AM
No RB?
Jamal Lewis is a great fill over Ruben Droughns and our OL is alot better than Baltimores and Lewis is now healthy.

I'm not so sure that Jamal Lewis is going to be any better than Droughns was for you. He is slow, he's lost a lot of his power and he just doesn't have any kind of moves. He is not even close to the same player he was when he had 2,000 yards rushing.

High Roller
05-01-2007, 11:23 AM
Patriots & Niners in that order.

P-L
05-01-2007, 12:26 PM
How can it not be the Patriots? They came within one drive of going to the Super Bowl last year and got three impact players in free agency/trade and another one in the draft. This year their #3 WR (Wes Welker) is going to be better than their #1 WR last year (Reche Caldwell). Not to mention they got arguably the best Free Agent available in Adalius Thomas.

diabsoule
05-01-2007, 12:35 PM
Patriots and San Francisco. There can be no doubt about it.

Titans10
05-01-2007, 05:47 PM
Denver

Gained
Travis Henry
Dre Bly
Brandon Stokley
Daniel Graham
Patrick Ramsey
Troy Fleming

Drafted
Jarvis Moss
Tim Crowder
Ryan Harris

Denver gave Cutler a few more options on offense by signing Daniel Graham and Brandon Stokley and the addition of Travis Henry will really help out the young QB and is just what Denver has been missing at running back for a few seasons. Also signed a proven backup with Ramsey

on the defensive side which was already strong, the signing of Bly gives the Broncos the best CB tandom in the NFL and with a strong draft they addressed their week defensive front by getting Jarvis Moss who reminds me of another former Gator Javon Kearse then in the second they got Tim Crowder which now gives Denver a good pair of defensive ends...good luck throwing on denver

Larry
05-01-2007, 06:32 PM
Pats and Niners

Non_Sequitur
05-01-2007, 06:39 PM
I don't know how you want to define best. The Patriots added the most big names on paper, so they have the best face value.

But I'm not a fan of Redskin style offseasons.


Personally I like what the Rams and Falcons did this offseason. And unlike most, I don't like what the Patriots and 49ers did.

McNabbFan2009
05-01-2007, 09:23 PM
I would have to say the patriots had the best or the 49ers. People think that randy moss is over in his career but I think he has alot of tread left on those tires. He is running a 40yrd dash in 4.28-4.30 that is faster than most of the wide-outs. PATS HAD THE BEST OF SEASON

broncofan4lyfe
05-02-2007, 07:32 PM
i would like to point out that first of all the Patriots have had the best off-season. But being a denver fan i would like to point out that

1. Travis Henry has the potential to be a top 10 RB next year, due to the fact that he fits in perfectly with the ZBS.

2. Dre Bly + Champ Bailey= Best CB tandem in the NFL. This was a great move by Shanny especially after d-will go shot.

3. Jarvis Moss + Tim Crowder + Marcus Thomas= Potential for the Broncos to be able to actually be able to put pressure on the Qb for once. This will definatly improve our pass-d drastically b/c we could never get any pressure on the QB last year.

4. Brandon Stokley= With Rod Smith aging, and Brandon Marshall showing real potential to be our #2 WR. Brandon Stokley is a great pick-up for a slot reciever. He was extremely succesful in Indy ( I know he had Peyton) bu the fact that he knows how to get open is key.

5. Daniel Graham- Not the best TE at catching the ball. But he is definatly a beast at blocking. So now with a blocking te (graham) and a catching te (sheaffer sp?). So now the broncos can run 2-TE formation that will inevitably boost our run and pass game.

Just a few points, but i will say that i do believe the pats had a better/equal post season

Jay
05-02-2007, 07:42 PM
I have a feeling Daniel Graham is going to have a breakout year....

Geo
05-02-2007, 08:37 PM
There's no guarantee that Bailey can re-create the absolutely superb year he had last year, when everything went right for him, and I'm waiting to see how Dre Bly performs in Bates' scheme (especially after getting paid) before crowning the duo just yet.

I would recommend curbing your enthusiasm that three rookie lineman will instantaneously transform a sub-par defensive line into that of championship caliber. Especially if they can't stop good offenses from running the ball like last year, as that eliminates the pass-rushing Moss from the equation by a good deal (but that won't be the case long-term as he develops under Bates, I think). Also, Thomas needs to do a better job of not getting penalized, that's not mentioned in all the talk of his considerable missteps.

As for Stokely, I have my doubts as to how much he'll actually contribute in 2007 when he's trying to recover from his Achilles injury (nevermind the guy unfortunately has a hard time staying healthy as it is).

BlindSite
05-02-2007, 08:40 PM
i would like to point out that first of all the Patriots have had the best off-season. But being a denver fan i would like to point out that

1. Travis Henry has the potential to be a top 10 RB next year, due to the fact that he fits in perfectly with the ZBS.

2. Dre Bly + Champ Bailey= Best CB tandem in the NFL. This was a great move by Shanny especially after d-will go shot.

3. Jarvis Moss + Tim Crowder + Marcus Thomas= Potential for the Broncos to be able to actually be able to put pressure on the Qb for once. This will definatly improve our pass-d drastically b/c we could never get any pressure on the QB last year.

4. Brandon Stokley= With Rod Smith aging, and Brandon Marshall showing real potential to be our #2 WR. Brandon Stokley is a great pick-up for a slot reciever. He was extremely succesful in Indy ( I know he had Peyton) bu the fact that he knows how to get open is key.

5. Daniel Graham- Not the best TE at catching the ball. But he is definatly a beast at blocking. So now with a blocking te (graham) and a catching te (sheaffer sp?). So now the broncos can run 2-TE formation that will inevitably boost our run and pass game.

Just a few points, but i will say that i do believe the pats had a better/equal post season

I'm sure Carolina, and Baltimore would disagree.

broncofan4lyfe
05-02-2007, 08:48 PM
Well the best tandom is just my opinion, and i do beleive that both Carolina and Baltimore have less than or equal to the broncos CB in Dre Bly and Champ Bailey. But last year Champ was the best CB, and now with Bly (who is very good but not great) they are very good. But Rolle and McCallister and Gamble and Lucas are both really good in their own rights.I would recommend curbing your enthusiasm that three rookie lineman will instantaneously transform a sub-par defensive line into that of championship caliber. Especially if they can't stop good offenses from running the ball like last year, as that eliminates the pass-rushing Moss from the equation by a good deal (but that won't be the case long-term as he develops under Bates, I think). Also, Thomas needs to do a better job of not getting penalized, that's not mentioned in all the talk of his considerable missteps

And btw IMO the addition of moss,crowder, and thomas however rookies, greatly add to our less than impressive D-line. Coupled with Warren, Lang, Dumervil, and Ekuban those three can greatly improve our defense. Not saying that they are going to make us amazing. But if they play good its still better than the DE's that we have. And thomas and warren are still a pretty decent DT tandem. Not great or amazing. But most likely unless all three are complete busts. They will improve us from last year.

PalmerToCJ
05-02-2007, 09:07 PM
I'm not dumb enough to chime in and say the Bengals did but I do have to mention how much greater our offseason is this year than last year.

A. We don't have daily updates on our franchise players knee.
B. We don't have rumors swirling that our star LB is going to be suspended.
C. We don't have Chris Henry getting arrested every other day.
D. We don't have speculation about our star WR getting in a fight with a coach.

Ahhh.. The calm is relieving.

Zim3031
05-02-2007, 09:08 PM
I really liked what the Raiders did in the offseason. If they had a veteran quarterback, I'd pick them to make the playoffs.

bearsfan_51
05-02-2007, 09:09 PM
I don't buy that simply because the Niners did a lot of things and spent a lot of money that they had a good offseason. Usually it's the teams that make a few small but prudent and practical moves that do the best in the end.

bearsfan_51
05-02-2007, 09:10 PM
I'm sure Carolina, and Baltimore would disagree.After last year Carolina isn't even in the discussion.

icantackleclaret
05-02-2007, 09:21 PM
I would say top 5 are : Pats, 49ers, Broncos, Browns and Raiders
Bottom 3: Titans, Giants, Ravens (lost alot)

bored of education
05-02-2007, 09:26 PM
Broncos, Pats, Niners

keylime_5
05-02-2007, 09:33 PM
Patriots, Niners, Cowboys, Browns and Broncos in such order.

Yung Flippa
05-02-2007, 09:58 PM
The Patriots and 49ers probably had the best
Off-Season

Billingsley26
05-02-2007, 10:34 PM
I am very critical of the Bills' offseason, it was easily the worst in the league IMO.

My number 1 criticism of the Bills' offseason:
Overpaying for Dockery and Walker. Dockery gets nearly 50 mill, Walker nearly 40 mill. Dockery is a guy who never did anything special in his career until he was in a contract year and even then he wasnt that great. Even if he continues to play like he did in 06, hes still not worth the 49 mill and chances are he wont, that was a career year for him. And let me tell you as a Raider fan Walker is awful. He was probably the worst starting OT in the league last year, in fact, he was EASILY the worst. I watched him get blown by almost every third down last year. It actually got to a point where I could predict he would get blown by and his man would sack the QB on a consistent basis and I would be right a lot of the time. Those were by far the worst signings of this offseason...

Letting Clements walk I dont have a problem with. You free up cap room, and you have his replacement ready with Youboty, and it woulda cost a lot to get him to resign rather than hit the open market. And 80 mill is a lot to spend on a CB when youre runnig the cover 2. But if youre gonna use that freed up cap room to sign Walker and Dockery, then im very critical of letting Clements walk b/c he is a top 10 player at a valuable position while Walker is one of the worst RTs in the league and Dockery is a quite average player at one of the least important positions, and he has bust/1 year wonder written all over him. So the money management was awful is my point.

Letting Fletcher walk I believe is the right move. He was good but I think his stats were somewhat misleading and hes not as good as they expected. Crowell will slide inside and should be as good as or maybe even better than Fletcher.

The Spikes trade I dont like. OK, Spikes is not the player he used to be and he might have been a little bit on the outs with the team, but they pretty much gave him away and he was still a damn good LB on a team that was pretty thin at the position. The Eagles I think were gonna cut Darwin Walker at some point this offseason and I just feel the value on the trade was awful and its not as if Spikes was a poor character player who was hurting team chemistry that they needed to get rid of.

Then we've got the McGahee trade. I dont have a major problem with it. While Im a big fan of McGahee and think hes one of the more underrated backs in the league, I recognize he was on the outs with the Bills and would be a FA last year and they'd lose him without compensation so getting 2 3rd rounders for him was not a bad deal really.

What I dont like is the way they dealt with the HB situation afterwards. Bear in mind that I am a big Marshawn Lynch fan...But the way I feel about it is they trade away a former 1st round pick at HB who has proven himself to be an excellent starter at the position and get 2 3rd rounders for him. Keeping in mind that HB is one of the most easily replacable positions in the league, I expected they would adress HB thru FA and later in the draft. Instead, they use their first rounder on Lynch. To me, it doesnt make sense to draft a talented HB coming off a gruesome injury in the 1st round, watch him get healthy and develop him into a star and then after 1 dissapointing season trade him away for two 3rd rounders and spend another first rounder on a HB. Even though I like Lynch, I just dont like what they did overall.

One move I did like was trading up for Poz, I think he should help the team a lot and was a very nice value in the 2nd round. Trent Edwards I suppose was a good pick but Lossman had a nice year and I feel is the future at QB so Im not as hyped on the pick as some people are. I like the CJ Ah You pick late and John Wendling was a nice value and I like Wright. Very solid draft.

Overall, I think the Bills did a bad job of managing cap and made some poor choices. B/c they spent big dollars on Walker and Dockery they wont get high comp picks for losing Fletcher and Clements. They coulda upgraded that OL much more intelligently and efficiently and I think they should have added a WR and more depth at CB. Evans is a rising star but Price stinks and Parrish is only really a slot guy and there were a lot of solid wideouts on the market and in the draft who could have fit into their system and been effective no. 2s but the Bills passed on all of em and they dont have enough targets in their passing game. And while I disagreed with those that called CB a round 1 or even day 1 need, they didnt draft a single CB and are quite thin at the position now. Youboty, McGee, Kiwaukee Thomas and Greer just doesnt sound too good to me.

Well, let me say this. Considering the market that was out there for OL, I say they had to pay Dockery big money to get him to come to Buffalo. There wasnt much else other than Steinbach, who I would rahter have had, but Dockery was the next best thing, and if they didnt give that money, the OL would be no different than it was last year. Walker was overpaid BIG TIME! He probably wont even be used that much. I would say he would just try to mentor as much as possible, and he'll probably still suck at that. Jason Whitlle speaks for himself, he just adds depth. But Dockery, I like it, they needed to do that.

The spikes deal, I odnt have a problem with. Word out of Buffalo is that a)he wanted out and b)he was a FA after this year and they weren't going to re sign him. Spikes is VERY injury prone, and as far as Im concerned, I havent heard any news that he is ready to go in top shape this year. So until I do, he won't be the TKO that I knew! Darwin Walker is allright, but hes just another one to help in the DT cycle. Walker was allright playing DT, and I think he has shown good ability to play the position well. I dont mind the trade, this one is kind of a write off as I really dont see either players having that great of an impact this year.

Are you sure your watching the same Willis Mcgahee as I am? He has not proven himself. Since when does having ONE DECENT (not great) but decent season, and good games against only the Jets, considerg you as proven? I do not like Willis Mcgahee, and he was nothing in Buffalo. He was a cancer and wanted out, let him go. They got Trent Edwards for him as well as Paul Posluszny (One 3rd was theirs and the other from Bal to trade up). Pretty good in my eyes. That was great to me, not to mention they have LYnch and A-Train, as well as Dwayne Wright in short yardage situations, which they havent had in a while.

They did have a great draft, and I agree with you about drafting a CB. I have been saying for a while that they dont need one at all. Pos can help immediately, so their LB's are set for years with Crowell (SLB), Pos (MLB) and Ellison (WLB). DB's are good for years as well with Witner, Simpson, Mcgee and Youboty. Schobel is great, and they got Hargrove, Denney and Kelsey as the others. DT is a by comitee which scares me.

WR they could've added, and I agree with you, but OL was helped with Dockery. The OL last year, seemed to improve, and adding Dockery will help even more. I have never been more confident in the RB than right now. This team will surprise many, I think they are on the right track. Mark it here, their defense will be top D this year!

Larry
05-03-2007, 12:43 PM
I don't buy that simply because the Niners did a lot of things and spent a lot of money that they had a good offseason. Usually it's the teams that make a few small but prudent and practical moves that do the best in the end.

Then How do you explain the Saints making a playoff run. The Saints brought in a lot of new personnel and they did just fine last season.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 12:54 PM
Then How do you explain the Saints making a playoff run. The Saints brought in a lot of new personnel and they did just fine last season.
Great. One example. Try making a mathmatical formulation out of that.

It's also worth noting that nobody thought much of the moves the Saints made other than Brees and Bush.

bigbluedefense
05-03-2007, 12:57 PM
I don't buy that simply because the Niners did a lot of things and spent a lot of money that they had a good offseason. Usually it's the teams that make a few small but prudent and practical moves that do the best in the end.

And thats exactly why I feel that the Niners are this year's Redskins.

They make a big splash in FA and all of a sudden theyre good? Theyre being massively overrated. Michael Lewis doesn't solve anything. They didn't address the dline. They lost their OC. Clements is overrated. They overspent on one of the worst FA years in recent memory.

I still haven't done a full offseason evaluation of all the teams, but at first glance, I think SF is my early favorite for getting the overrated tag.

Shiver
05-03-2007, 12:59 PM
Atlanta had a very good off-season. That is all.

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 01:02 PM
I don't think you can declare a "best" offseason until a few years down the road. But you can declare good and bad (like NYJ, San Fran, Denver good, Buffalo, Cleveland, New England bad).

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 01:32 PM
Why are so many Jets fans such massive homers? Is it just a New York thing?

Geo
05-03-2007, 01:35 PM
Well, the 49ers have improved their team as well as anybody, from a talent standpoint.

Offensively, they said farewell to Antonio Bryant and actually constructed a receiver corps of Darrell Jackson, Ashley Lelie, and Jason Hill. In addition to Vernon Davis now having a year under his belt. The addition of Joe Staley ultimately means they can get rid of Kwame Harris (there's a "highlight" vid online that everyone should see to stress this point).

But as one of the first and foremost to stress the loss of Norv Turner, I think that will hurt the entire offense as a whole, both the passing game and the running game, barring a miraculous performance by the mediocre-quarterbacks-coach-turned-first-time-NFL-offensive-coordinator they promoted.

Defensively, I like what they've done with the exception of the Michael Lewis signing. Nate Clements and Patrick Willis strengthen the secondary and linebacker corps respectively by a great deal, and Aubrayo Franklin gives them much-needed talent at NT. Banta-Cain gives them another player at OLB. They are still a few players away from Nolan having the great defensive unit he envisions, but I think there's a good chance that they can be the best in the division sooner rather than later with Nolan at the helm (I'm not big on the influence of Singletary on the defense as a whole).

If the offense can be reasonably functional instead of Frank Gore And 10 Other Guys, and the team stays healthy because I'd be worried about their depth at particular positions, I think the 49ers can seriously challenge for the division and/or the wild card given the state of NFC this year.

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 01:41 PM
Why are so many Jets fans such massive homers? Is it just a New York thing?

It's an arrogance thing. NYC is the best city in the world, and we're from the, for all intents and purposes, capitol of the world. So we're arrogant.

At least I'm honest.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 01:43 PM
I know that you're aware of this, but simply adding or subtracting talent does not make a good "team". Most teams (Saints of last year excluded) need to develop chemistry, fit needs, schemes and appropriate roles, and you can never discount how a guy is going to react when he changes an enviroment or gets a big fat signing bonus.

It's funny now that the Redskins have become everyone's kicking dog people go apeshit when they overspend on players, but when another team does it they are just "acquiring talent". Usually the team that "wins" the offseason ends up .500 or below. Just look at the Panthers of last year.

Shiver
05-03-2007, 01:44 PM
The 49ers were 7-9 last year, and beat Denver and Seattle on the road to close out the season. They're young players; Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, are only going to get better. They drastically improved their receivers, to where their receptions leader (Arnaz Battler, yikes) last year may be the #3/4. They added Patrick Willis and Banta-Cain at LB. Nate Clements is probably a top-5 cover corner, to tandem with Walt Harris.

Geo
05-03-2007, 01:45 PM
Why are so many Jets fans such massive homers? Is it just a New York thing?
Giants fans were the same last year, the team makes the playoffs and fans go batshit insane about their team. Somehow the fact that the team was signing mediocre at best free agent after another - in the secondary particularly - was overlooked. At least last year has made Giants fans more reasonable this year, especially as they realize the team's upswing starts in 2008 after they dump Coughlin. Getting rid of one of the worst defensive coordinators of the last 5 years, Tim Lewis, was a step in the right direction already.

In the Jets case, while they did do a handful of very good things, it's not enough. They still don't have a TE who can help Pistol Pennington or actual/eventual starter Kellen Clemens, and they still don't have enough talent in the front seven to make their 3-4 defense playoff-caliber. They might sneak into the playoffs again, although I doubt it, but they'll get bounced handedly like last year if they do.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 01:46 PM
It's an arrogance thing. NYC is the best city in the world, and we're from the, for all intents and purposes, capitol of the world. So we're arrogant.

At least I'm honest.

I'm really not a fan of New York City. East coast cities are overrated to me, the only one I really enjoy is Philadelphia. D.C is entertaining but not at all safe, and Boston has tons of cool historical stuff, but is way too crowded, the traffic is terrible, and most people are assholes. Actually most American cities are overrated in general. Not to mention that the Jets currently play in New Jersey, the armpit of America.

But that's cool...being a homer is a relative thing anyway.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 01:48 PM
The 49ers were 7-9 last year, and beat Denver and Seattle on the road to close out the season. They're young players; Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, Manny Lawson, are only going to get better. They drastically improved their receivers, to where their receptions leader (Arnaz Battler, yikes) last year may be the #3/4. They added Patrick Willis and Banta-Cain at LB. Nate Clements is probably a top-5 cover corner, to tandem with Walt Harris.

http://www.cooqy.com/blog/images/crystalball.jpg

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 01:49 PM
I know that you're aware of this, but simply adding or subtracting talent does not make a good "team". Most teams (Saints of last year excluded) need to develop chemistry, fit needs, schemes and appropriate roles, and you can never discount how a guy is going to react when he changes an enviroment or gets a big fat signing bonus.

It's funny now that the Redskins have become everyone's kicking dog people go apeshit when they overspend on players, but when another team does it they are just "acquiring talent". Usually the team that "wins" the offseason ends up .500 or below. Just look at the Panthers of last year.


This is exactly why I do not like the Pats' offseason. I feel they added tons of talent (I even like their pick of Meriweather) but they are trading chemistry and attitude for talent, which I do not like. The Jets did not add the same number of players, but all 3 big additions (draft and trade) are character, quality, hard working guys with good attitudes. I'll take that over a couple more players that have talent.

And I'm not being a homer when I say this, I'd say it if it was any other team (Cowboys, Chargers, etc). This is the first year I looked at the Pats' offseason and was not impressed. Well, last year I wasn't particularly impressed, but I didn't have any issues with it, but this year is the first year I truely didn't envy the Pats'.

Well, except their tastey 1st round pick next year which will probably be top 15.

Shiver
05-03-2007, 01:52 PM
http://www.cooqy.com/blog/images/crystalball.jpg

Tis the off-season. We have four months of nonstop inane banter, flame wars, and conjecture about the upcoming season.

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 01:55 PM
I'm really not a fan of New York City. East coast cities are overrated to me, the only one I really enjoy is Philadelphia. D.C is entertaining but not at all safe, and Boston has tons of cool historical stuff, but is way too crowded, the traffic is terrible, and most people are assholes. Actually most American cities are overrated in general. Not to mention that the Jets currently play in New Jersey, the armpit of America.

But that's cool...being a homer is a relative thing anyway.


The Jets' play in NJ because NYC is too about the business to use the land for sports. Which is unfortunate. But the Patriots don't play in Boston, yet Bostonians (that's how you say it right?) feel free to call them a Boston team. And I'm pretty sure the Cowboys don't play in Dallas.

But that's all beside the point. The best place to live is New Hampshire. The best place to work and be around is NYC. It's got everything. Culture, art, broadway, history, wall street... anything you want. Boston might be a more "historic" city (I've been there and enjoyed it), but so is Charleston, South Carolina. That doesn't make it a better place to be, just a fun place to visit.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Tis the off-season. We have four months of nonstop inane banter, flame wars, and conjecture about the upcoming season.
Oh I know, I just wanted to use that picture. Haha...

I just don't like it when people say "so and so is only going to get better" just because they are young. Very often young players don't develop, and in the case of Lawson and Davis, neither of them showed enough of a curve last year to know one way or another except for pure talent and where they were drafted. At least Alex Smith has shown sustained development, but I think some people are acting like he was John Elway last year because he threw more touchdowns than interceptions. Rex Grossman did the same thing, where his cookie and adulation?

Shiver
05-03-2007, 02:00 PM
Probably because perception was Grossman (or Eli Manning for that matter) was holding his team back. Whereas the media is more willing to praise Smith, because they think, and probably so, that his supporting cast isn't very good.

Ryan_K
05-03-2007, 02:15 PM
Great. One example. Try making a mathmatical formulation out of that.

It's also worth noting that nobody thought much of the moves the Saints made other than Brees and Bush.

"Other than Brees and Bush." lol

Dude you are kinda on another planet here with your 49er-hating. I haven't seen you make a single logical point but your posts are all over threads on this site trying to mock the 49ers.

Your "formula" for winning was adding small contract players. Which is exactly what the 49ers did that last year. They signed Walt Harris and Larry Allen. Both of whom went to the Pro Bowl. They were so far under the salary cap this year they spent their money signing their nucleus of young talent to long term deals including Gore, Spencer, Snyder etc. etc.

Their only big free agent signing was Clements. Whose deal is structured so that he is only making league minimum this year and the last two years are cap friendly years to cut him or restructure. If you look at the actual contract it works out to about 8 million a year.

Unlike the Redskins they signed a number of young players. All of their FA pick ups are under 27 and moving towards their NFL prime. All come from winning programs and are high character people. The've had two 1st round picks the past two years, and the #1 pick overall in 2005. So they have a very stong young nucleus.

Whether or not they win next year is up in the air, but you cannot knock the front office. They put this time in a very nice position to compete playing in the weaker conference in its weakest division.

Ryan_K
05-03-2007, 02:25 PM
Oh I know, I just wanted to use that picture. Haha...

I just don't like it when people say "so and so is only going to get better" just because they are young. Very often young players don't develop, and in the case of Lawson and Davis, neither of them showed enough of a curve last year to know one way or another except for pure talent and where they were drafted. At least Alex Smith has shown sustained development, but I think some people are acting like he was John Elway last year because he threw more touchdowns than interceptions. Rex Grossman did the same thing, where his cookie and adulation?

The media basically haven't even coverred the 49ers in the past few years.
Smith was considered a bust after his first year and not coverred much. They only started picking up coverage once he led the team to that comeback against Seattle on the NFL Network. Even then few have given him credit as being the next John Elway. Virtually every commentator still has Young/Leinart/Cutler well ahead of him. I'd rather he fly under the radar for a while. Losing Turner may hurt, but they are keeping his system and those close to the team seem to feel Dilfer had a lot more to do with Smith's development than Turner did. There really are no excuses for Smith this year, which I'm sure is scary. He finally has starting calibre NFL receivers and Kwame is heading to the bench (and Harris may be the only player in NFL history to have his holding calls negate 70+ yard TD passes twice in the same season.)

The Bears are all over the place and they seem to have everything in place except for QB where Grossman was historically up and down and had one of the more abysmal seasons in recent memory. He's also surrounded by an A+ supporting cast whereas Smith had expansion level teammates for his first two years. And Chicago fans in general can be loud and obnoxious and have called for Rex's head on more than one occasion so the national media just picks up on it.

Personally, I'm pulling for Rex to do well and shove it down everyone's throat. It's funny watching old Superbowls and seeing how horrible Elway was in them (especially against the 49ers in '89) He seemed to bounce back and be OK in the end. Neil O'Donnell on the other hand - not so much.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 02:41 PM
I'm not "hating" on the Niners at all. I'm completely objective in this debate, as they aren't even a rival or are playing the Bears next year, perhaps you should consider that as well. I'm also not alone in my opinion. This could be any team, I don't buy into hype, and that's what the Niners are right now.

In terms of logic, you're wrong on a few fronts. The deal for Lewis was massive for his current value, and Banta-Cain was overpaid as well.

Your assertion that the Redskins are more prone to sign older players is also incorrect. Lloyd, Randel-El, Carter, and Archuleta were all under 30 last year. That is why the Redskins don't draft, because they sign players with only 3-5 years experience in the league. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the rationale.

I'm also not knocking the Niners front office, or even their fans, I'm knocking the perception that they have achieved anything at this point. Bringing in players is always a risk, and the success rate of being active in free agency is low. And that is a fact, that is backed up by statistics, so while you can talk about "logic", almost everything I've said so far has a pretty strong historical precedence to it, you just don't like it because you're a Niners fan.

And if you consider Desmond Clark and Muhsin Muhammad an A+ staff, you are an awful generous fellow.

Larry
05-03-2007, 06:11 PM
And thats exactly why I feel that the Niners are this year's Redskins.

They make a big splash in FA and all of a sudden theyre good? Theyre being massively overrated. Michael Lewis doesn't solve anything. They didn't address the dline. They lost their OC. Clements is overrated. They overspent on one of the worst FA years in recent memory.

I still haven't done a full offseason evaluation of all the teams, but at first glance, I think SF is my early favorite for getting the overrated tag.

Explain to me How Clements is overrated?

A two time Pro Bowler who's great in coverage and great in Run Support.

bigbluedefense
05-03-2007, 06:17 PM
Explain to me How Clements is overrated?

A two time Pro Bowler who's great in coverage and great in Run Support.

He's had a not so great past 2 years. He's top 10, but not top 5.

More importantly, I know Nolan loves running Cover 3, and Clements is more of a man coverage defender. He struggled in zone coverages in Buffalo. Unless Nolan uses him in more man coverage, he won't live up to expectations.

Add the fact that Im not sure if the pass rush is where it needs to be. Buffalo's pass rush was infinitely better than SF's and he still had some trouble.

So that could be a problem. Mix zone with less pass rush, and things could get ugly for Clements.

Ryan_K
05-03-2007, 06:46 PM
I'm not "hating" on the Niners at all. I'm completely objective in this debate, as they aren't even a rival or are playing the Bears next year, perhaps you should consider that as well. I'm also not alone in my opinion. This could be any team, I don't buy into hype, and that's what the Niners are right now.

Objectivity wasn't an issue. I just think you aren't well aware of the situation and are looking to fill space and sound important. Every thread I open I see you talking about how the 49ers are over-hyped. You seem to be very interested in a team that you supposedly don't care about. You also expressed problems with Alex Smith getting more press than Rex Grossman.

I just don't understand where you are coming from. The team hasn't exactly been getting tons of praise. Major media coverage has been on the Patriots and all the guys they have signed. For the most part SF has been under the radar in their moves.

Your connection to the Redskins doesn't hold water because the team was built through the draft. SF doesn't trade away draft picks for players like the Redskins. I can't remember the last time they gave up draft pick fors players.

In terms of logic, you're wrong on a few fronts. The deal for Lewis was massive for his current value, and Banta-Cain was overpaid as well.

You are aware there's a new salary cap correct? And that the 49ers were so far under the cap the needed to spend money to even hit the salary floor established under the new CBA? Should they have just sat on that money and did nothing? Because some of the other teams 30+ million in cap space sat on their hands and weren't aggressive and have little to show for it.

"Overpaid" is a relative term that is better assessed down the line once we actually see what these guys can do. SF had no pass rush and Thomas went to NE so there weren't exactly a lot of options. Would it have been better to stay with Roderick Green
based on your generalized fear of spending a lot of money on free agents? How exactly would that press conference go?

I live in Philly. I see a majority of the Eagles games. Michael Lewis got a raw deal in Philly and was benched as a scapegoat. Franklin Field used to be full of Lewis jerseys and everyone loved him as a hard hitter and stand up guy.

And in case the media outside of Philly hasn't picked up on it, the natives are getting restless and Andy Reid's super micro-managing has alienated a lot of his players and the team is on the verge of imploding. I think Lewis will be fine in SF and he's making 600 k this year in base salary. Its not like they broke the bank for him.

Your assertion that the Redskins are more prone to sign older players is also incorrect. Lloyd, Randel-El, Carter, and Archuleta were all under 30 last year. That is why the Redskins don't draft, because they sign players with only 3-5 years experience in the league. I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's the rationale.

The Redskins have notoriously signed older veteran players going back to the "over the hill" gang.


I'm also not knocking the Niners front office, or even their fans, I'm knocking the perception that they have achieved anything at this point. Bringing in players is always a risk, and the success rate of being active in free agency is low.


The 1994 SF 49ers would disagree. They seemed to do pretty well bringing in a number of expensive free agents - Ken Norton, Deion Sanders, Richard Dent etc. etc.

Nevertheless, I really think you are mis-characterizing SF's offseason. The team from day 1 in SF has been built through the draft and they have added 4 - 5 players in FA. The difference this year is that they added one big ticket player.

And that is a fact, that is backed up by statistics, so while you can talk about "logic", almost everything I've said so far has a pretty strong historical precedence to it, you just don't like it because you're a Niners fan.

I'm pretty sure you meant precedents. I don't like it because you talk down to people a lot and act like you are something special. It's the whole "ego" issue. Y

And yes I'm a 49ers fan, so I can pick apart your arguments. But 49er fans fight fiercely over this stuff as well.

And if you consider Desmond Clark and Muhsin Muhammad an A+ staff, you are an awful generous fellow.

Compared to what SF has had, it certainly is.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 07:00 PM
8 wins isn't ****. Big deal. So if they win one or two more games that means they've had the best offseason? They would have to at least win 10-11 games and the division for this to be considered a real success. Otherwise they are just treading water. Even based on the law of averages they'll be .500 or so next year.

So with that being said, you can put your money where your mouth is and bet me that the Niners will win the division. If not, then the rest of your points are irrelevant and you're wasting my time.

Ryan_K
05-03-2007, 07:12 PM
8 wins isn't ****. Big deal. So if they win one or two more games that means they've had the best offseason? They would have to at least win 10-11 games and the division for this to be considered a real success. Otherwise they are just treading water. Even based on the law of averages they'll be .500 or so next year.

So with that being said, you can put your money where your mouth is and bet me that the Niners will win the division. If not, then the rest of your points are irrelevant and you're wasting my time.

You are aware that 8 wins could have easily won the division last year?

Honestly, I think you could use some time away from the keyboard. Upon looking up your posts you just seem like the angry guy who spouts off about everything. Too much anger.

I guess I'll just move on and let you be. I guess there isn't much to do in the off-season around here so people pick fights.

We'll see what happens once they actually start playing football.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 07:15 PM
You are aware that 8 wins could have easily won the division last year?

Honestly, I think you could use some time away from the keyboard. Upon looking up your posts you just seem like the angry guy who spouts off about everything. Too much anger.

I guess I'll just move on and let you be. I guess there isn't much to do in the off-season around here so people pick fights.

We'll see what happens once they actually start playing football.
So after telling me I need to put my money where my mouth is, you in the end don't have enough faith in your team to think that with the "best offseason in the NFL" they can't win a crummy division like the NFC West? Ooooooh...bold prediction...eight wins.

Ok, good one, bye bye.

And I didn't pick a fight with anyone. You're the one that came after me for what I thought about your team. Even though in the end you seemingly agree with me since you think they'll have about the same record as they had last year.

Ryan_K
05-03-2007, 07:29 PM
So after telling me I need to put my money where my mouth is, you in the end don't have enough faith in your team to think that with the "best offseason in the NFL" they can't win a crummy division like the NFC West? Ooooooh...bold prediction...eight wins.

Ok, good one, bye bye.

And I didn't pick a fight with anyone. You're the one that came after me for what I thought about your team. Even though in the end you seemingly agree with me since you think they'll have about the same record as they had last year.

No, I just had second thoughts about having an active wager with what appears to be a relatively unstable individual across the internet.

But feel free to keep trying to bait me back into it.

MasterShake
05-03-2007, 08:16 PM
Mix zone with less pass rush, and things could get ugly for Clements.

If there is one thing I'm confident in...its Mike Nolan's ability to best utilize his defensive players.

He took a defense last year that had nearly nothing talent-wise and was ready to set a points allowed record and turned them around into a decent unit in the second half of the year. He knows his defense, I'm certainly interested and excited to see what he can do with some talent and finally getting his 3-4 running.

Larry
05-03-2007, 09:18 PM
You are aware that 8 wins could have easily won the division last year?

Honestly, I think you could use some time away from the keyboard. Upon looking up your posts you just seem like the angry guy who spouts off about everything. Too much anger.

I guess I'll just move on and let you be. I guess there isn't much to do in the off-season around here so people pick fights.

We'll see what happens once they actually start playing football.

He's mad because you owned him in the argument.

bearsfan_51
05-03-2007, 09:30 PM
He's mad because you owned him in the argument.
I'm not mad at all. I listed my reasons why I think this is all hype and flawed arguments.

He had an inane rant about me being mean and arrogant and then challenged me to the lamest bet ever.

I made a real bet, he chickened out and justified it by saying I was "unstable" and angry, as if I'm going to beat his ass with my laptop.

But again, you are all Niners fans, I understand your desire to stick up for your team and desire to think the best thoughts possible, it's not a big deal to me at all, just don't say I'm picking fights and being angry when you're the one that takes an argument up with me and then tells me to "put my money where my mouth is" and then **** out. That's lame, really lame.

But yeah, I was owned. Whatever.

sweetness34
05-03-2007, 09:50 PM
I'm really not a fan of New York City. East coast cities are overrated to me, the only one I really enjoy is Philadelphia. D.C is entertaining but not at all safe, and Boston has tons of cool historical stuff, but is way too crowded, the traffic is terrible, and most people are assholes. Actually most American cities are overrated in general. Not to mention that the Jets currently play in New Jersey, the armpit of America.

But that's cool...being a homer is a relative thing anyway.

Chicago is the greatest city in the world 51!! :D

Anywho...I like what SF has done, I really do but I truly don't believe they're ready to make any kind of jump yet. Pretty much all of their skill positions have inexperienced players. Sure they have a bunch of potential, but that word is thrown around way too much in the NFL. The only sure thing on that team right now offensively is Frank Gore who is one of the most underrated players in the NFL right now. Alex Smith will need to raise his game even more, and that is without a real #1 target. Vernon Davis is a question mark at TE, who knows what he's going to do. The WR's haven't really proven much to me. Their OL is ok but nothing special. And switching to the 3-4 defense in the offseason may take some time to adjust to, although I hear they're still going to implement the 4-3 in there as well.

Things in SF are sunny, but I just don't see them as a threat for another year or so personally.

Ryan_K
05-04-2007, 12:01 AM
I'm not mad at all. I listed my reasons why I think this is all hype and flawed arguments.

He had an inane rant about me being mean and arrogant and then challenged me to the lamest bet ever.

I made a real bet, he chickened out and justified it by saying I was "unstable" and angry, as if I'm going to beat his ass with my laptop.

But again, you are all Niners fans, I understand your desire to stick up for your team and desire to think the best thoughts possible, it's not a big deal to me at all, just don't say I'm picking fights and being angry when you're the one that takes an argument up with me and then tells me to "put my money where my mouth is" and then **** out. That's lame, really lame.

But yeah, I was owned. Whatever.

I am a grown ass man and I was getting into a fight with some guy on the internet over something rather trivial. I thought better of it and backed away. Plus my profession doesn't look kindly on gambling.

But I'll be more than happy to show up here game after game and update you on how the team is doing.

bearsfan_51
05-04-2007, 12:55 AM
your "profession" frowns on making simple internet wagers that don't, typically, involve money? you could've made up a better excuse than that.
Sig bets are a big deal in the "real" world. You wouldn't know about that because you aren't a grown ass man.

Phrost
05-04-2007, 01:46 AM
If you can't prevent the government from monitoring your internet actions you shouldn't get on the internet.

Zbikowski_9
05-04-2007, 05:21 AM
I am not saying the Vikes had the top offseason, they were basicly asleep during free-agency, but, as Chilly claimed, they did build through the draft and did a decent job. We will have a great bases for the year, we are just lacking some real playmakers and an offensive identity.

Additions through free agency:

Vinny Ciurciu (Special Teamer) OLB
Vishante Shiancoe (I think he will do realy well) TE
Bobby Wade WR / KR
Mike Doss S
Cortez Hankton KR / Special Teamer / WR
Todd Towber WR Project

Draft:

Adrian Peterson HB
Sidney Rice WR
Marcus McCaughly CB
Brian Robinson DE / Special Teamer Specialist
Aundrae Allison WR
Rufus Alexander OLB
Chandler Williams WR / KR
TYler Thigpen QB / WR
Extra 3rd rounder next year

Loses:

Napolean Harris MLB
Mike Rosenthal T
Marcus Robinson WR
Travis Taylor WR
Brad Johnson QB
Fred Smoot CB
Jeramaine Wiggins TE

Than there are the guys who didn't play last year due to injury. This is like
getting a bunch of extra rookies and free agents

Extras: (People who were on IR last year)
Chad Greenway (Ist Round las year) OLB
Erasmus James (Ist Round the year before) DE
Tank Williams SS


Overall, I think we have a vastly improved team than last year.

Salami
05-04-2007, 09:36 AM
So by your own description, the long and short of it is that you guys only lost a little bit. That's not really something to be happy with.


Losing McGahee made it a great off season. The rest of the moves were icing on the cake.

portermvp84
05-05-2007, 12:09 AM
I am not saying the Vikes had the top offseason, they were basicly asleep during free-agency, but, as Chilly claimed, they did build through the draft and did a decent job. We will have a great bases for the year, we are just lacking some real playmakers and an offensive identity.

Additions through free agency:

Vinny Ciurciu (Special Teamer) OLB
Vishante Shiancoe (I think he will do realy well) TE
Bobby Wade WR / KR
Mike Doss S
Cortez Hankton KR / Special Teamer / WR
Todd Towber WR Project

Draft:

Adrian Peterson HB
Sidney Rice WR
Marcus McCaughly CB
Brian Robinson DE / Special Teamer Specialist
Aundrae Allison WR
Rufus Alexander OLB
Chandler Williams WR / KR
TYler Thigpen QB / WR
Extra 3rd rounder next year

Loses:

Napolean Harris MLB
Mike Rosenthal T
Marcus Robinson WR
Travis Taylor WR
Brad Johnson QB
Fred Smoot CB
Jeramaine Wiggins TE

Than there are the guys who didn't play last year due to injury. This is like
getting a bunch of extra rookies and free agents

Extras: (People who were on IR last year)
Chad Greenway (Ist Round las year) OLB
Erasmus James (Ist Round the year before) DE
Tank Williams SS


Overall, I think we have a vastly improved team than last year.



It just seems like the Vikings get all of these good players and they can never do anything with them. You would at least think they'll make it too the playoffs.

jkpigskin
05-05-2007, 08:13 AM
no question it was the pats

when one of the best organizations starts to decide to spend some money, it can become pretty scary

Jimmy
05-05-2007, 08:22 AM
I'm sure Carolina, and Baltimore would disagree.

you must be kidding.
champ is better than any CB in the league, including mcallister...
he EASILY compensates for their #2 corners

bailey > mcallister> lucas > rolle> bly > gamble