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StaticGator
04-30-2007, 07:45 AM
I was praying the Falcons would mortgage their whole draft on Calvin Johnson but instead they used all their picks and got almost all players that fit in great for them. Anderson will be starting in place of Kerney week one, Blalock may have been the best guard in the draft and helps Petrino beef up the line, Houston will be a great second banana to Hall and then they can move Jimmy Williams to free safety, I'm not counting on much from Laurent Robinson, but Stephen Nicholas and Martrez Milner are pretty solid picks too. This sucks. Was anyone else impressed with Carolina or New Orleans?

-black
04-30-2007, 08:08 AM
Carolina had one of the best drafts in the NFL. I think easily IMO had the best draft in the division

Charles Johnson
Jon Beason
Dwayne Jarrett
Ryan Kalil

all of them are first round worthy. All of them will start at one point next season (except for maybe Jarrett, but he will play alot)

I'd rather have THEIR draft than ours

only picks I truly like with us is Adams, Tanard Jackson, and Peterson. Im having to grow to like the other picks. If I give us a C+, I give them a A-

StaticGator
04-30-2007, 08:14 AM
Yeah, I forgot who all Carolina drafted. I don't like Jarrett but the other 1st day picks are great. I was screaming for Charles Johnson all day and now we have to try to block him after we try to block Peppers.

As for New Orleans, I thought the wide receiver pick in round one was bad as Colston, Henderson, and Copper look like a pretty good trio.

-black
04-30-2007, 09:06 AM
New Orleans had a bad draft, got a great player in Meachem. But didnt adress their defense (which makes me happy). They needed impact at CB, DT, and LB and didnt get it IMO

the Falcons had a good draft though....very good

Merlin
04-30-2007, 03:00 PM
Carolina had one of the best drafts in the NFL. I think easily IMO had the best draft in the division

Charles Johnson
Jon Beason
Dwayne Jarrett
Ryan Kalil

all of them are first round worthy. All of them will start at one point next season (except for maybe Jarrett, but he will play alot)

I'd rather have THEIR draft than ours

only picks I truly like with us is Adams, Tanard Jackson, and Peterson. Im having to grow to like the other picks. If I give us a C+, I give them a A-I think Carolina's draft was good....for them!

We got our pass rusher, potentialy the best in the draft?

Our coaching staff, are obviously more than happy with our depth and personnel at C. (Buenning, Lehr and Wade)

Jarrett IMO wouldn't give us anything we haven't already got.
Some might argue that we needed a WR, and I would agree....to a point!
Ask yourself who you would sacrifice out of our current crop of picks, and then see who would have been available to us at the time, I wouldn't change Sears for either Rice or Smith, and IMO Black has more potential then any of the WR's picked in the #3rd.

I love our draft.

Caddy
04-30-2007, 04:31 PM
I think the NFC South as a whole had great drafts. I think we Buc fans are playing down how good our own draft was. USA Today and CBS Sportsline have all had us in their Top 4 drafts so from an outside perspective we are obviously doing something right.

etk
04-30-2007, 05:59 PM
One of the things that really pissed me off about our draft was how we passed up on so many great players and our division rivals picked them all up. Carolina and Atlanta had tremendous drafts (minus L. Brown) and we can only blame ourselves in the future for passing up guys like Blalock, Kalil, Johnson, Jarrett & Houston.

Chucky
04-30-2007, 06:15 PM
One of the things that really pissed me off about our draft was how we passed up on so many great players and our division rivals picked them all up. Carolina and Atlanta had tremendous drafts (minus L. Brown) and we can only blame ourselves in the future for passing up guys like Blalock, Kalil, Johnson, Jarrett & Houston.

Regarding Blalock, i would personally rather have sears at LG. Kalil i agree we probably should have taken. And Houston just would not be a good fit for the cover 2 IMO

Shiver
04-30-2007, 06:44 PM
I still don't understand why you guys took Arron Sears over Justin Blalock. Evidently Atlanta tried desperately to trade up to #28 for him, and fortunately he fell to them.

That said; I like what Tampa Bay did. They grabbed a lot of nice 'scheme' fits. Some in the media call them "reaches," however those players grade higher on the Bucs' board. Besides, that defense needed a lot of work.

Overall I think both Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Carolina won this weekend. I think Atlanta and Tampa Bay were smart by not getting suckered into trading up for Calvin Johnson, at Detroit's asking price. (two 2nd round picks in '07, 2nd round pick in '08). And because of that, they both improved the youth, talent, and depth of their respective teams.

TwOne
04-30-2007, 07:17 PM
I still don't understand why you guys took Arron Sears over Justin Blalock. Evidently Atlanta tried desperately to trade up to #28 for him, and fortunately he fell to them.

That said; I like what Tampa Bay did. They grabbed a lot of nice 'scheme' fits. Some in the media call them "reaches," however those players grade higher on the Bucs' board. Besides, that defense needed a lot of work.

Overall I think both Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Carolina won this weekend. I think Atlanta and Tampa Bay were smart by not getting suckered into trading up for Calvin Johnson, at Detroit's asking price. (two 2nd round picks in '07, 2nd round pick in '08). And because of that, they both improved the youth, talent, and depth of their respective teams.
well they took Davin over Winston last year and "reached" for Trueblood in the second and he did good last season. I myself felt like the guard position rankings were 1) Grubbs, 2) Sears, 3) Blalock. I thought Blalock was getting hyped up alot. That being said I have faith in Sears because of how Tampa did last year drafting OL. So I'm happy with the pick.

-black
04-30-2007, 07:30 PM
I think Carolina's draft was good....for them!

We got our pass rusher, potentialy the best in the draft?

Our coaching staff, are obviously more than happy with our depth and personnel at C. (Buenning, Lehr and Wade)

Jarrett IMO wouldn't give us anything we haven't already got.
Some might argue that we needed a WR, and I would agree....to a point!
Ask yourself who you would sacrifice out of our current crop of picks, and then see who would have been available to us at the time, I wouldn't change Sears for either Rice or Smith, and IMO Black has more potential then any of the WR's picked in the #3rd.

I love our draft.

Carolina's draft would look good in Pewter

after brooks retired

ILB-Beason
WLB-June
SLB-Rudd

Gaines isnt going to start anyway so

LDE-Spires, C. Johnson

I dont think Jarrett would be a GREAT pick, but he would be a Keyshawn Johnson like prescence.

and finally Kalil would bolster our interrior on the OL.

Im optimistic about our draft picks, but the Panthers draft seems like at least half of those guys should be ours

etk
04-30-2007, 07:34 PM
Justin Blalock has everything you look for in a football player. His only real weakness was his quickness and ability to pull but he worked very hard in the offseason to to improve in that department and it showed at the combine. Sears, on the other hand, is loaded with question marks and weaknesses.

Just to recapl: Set a school record by starting 51 straight games. 4 year starter at RT and RG where he was a finalist for the Outland and Lombardi awards. Team captain and unanimous All-American. Punishing blocker with tenacity and nastiness on impact, especially on pulls. Technically sound with good knee bend as well as a thick frame. Terrific run blocker who comes out of his stance at a good level and maintains leverage well. Good balance, quickness and agility for his size. Uses his hands well in all facets of blocking. As far as testing goes, he's in a class of his own. He was a monster on the bench press, had a surprisingly good 40 time, and he aced the Wonderlic (best in class).

Blalock in a nutshell: Hard worker, leader, great character, strong, quick, smart and nasty.

Sorry guys, Arron Sears can't even hold his jock. Not even close.

He will be an absolute stud for years under Bobby Petrino in Atlanta, not only on the field but in the locker room as well.

etk
04-30-2007, 07:37 PM
And Houston just would not be a good fit for the cover 2 IMO

I agree that the Cover 2 is not the best fit for him, but he's a heck of a player regardless and would fit in any scheme. I was pointing him out because of his value in the early 2nd, but I would be concerned about his playmaking abilities in a Cover 2.

Caddy
04-30-2007, 10:49 PM
No use crying over spilled milk now.

zCaddyz
05-01-2007, 03:23 AM
im just mad they got beason cuz he's from the U it's gonna hurt me when caddy makes him look dumb

Merlin
05-01-2007, 07:59 AM
Carolina's draft would look good in Pewter

after brooks retired

ILB-Beason
WLB-June
SLB-Rudd

Gaines isnt going to start anyway so

LDE-Spires, C. Johnson

I dont think Jarrett would be a GREAT pick, but he would be a Keyshawn Johnson like prescence.

and finally Kalil would bolster our interrior on the OL.

Im optimistic about our draft picks, but the Panthers draft seems like at least half of those guys should be oursAs far as I know Brooks is still with us, at least for this year, and if the rumours are to be believed Q.Black will be getting preped to take on his role? otherwise we have FA next year and another Draft to look forward to.

Even if Gaines doesn't start, he'll contribute from day 1, probably as a situational pass rusher at worst.

As for KJ, Stovall has the potential to fill that role, we didn't need Jarrett....period!

As for Kalil, I wouldn't of shed any tears had we selected him, but we didn't, we can only come to our own conlusions as to why not, our staff had their reasons, and made no effort to address the position in 7 rd's, that must count for something.

Merlin
05-01-2007, 08:13 AM
Justin Blalock has everything you look for in a football player. His only real weakness was his quickness and ability to pull but he worked very hard in the offseason to to improve in that department and it showed at the combine. Sears, on the other hand, is loaded with question marks and weaknesses.

Just to recapl: Set a school record by starting 51 straight games. 4 year starter at RT and RG where he was a finalist for the Outland and Lombardi awards. Team captain and unanimous All-American. Punishing blocker with tenacity and nastiness on impact, especially on pulls. Technically sound with good knee bend as well as a thick frame. Terrific run blocker who comes out of his stance at a good level and maintains leverage well. Good balance, quickness and agility for his size. Uses his hands well in all facets of blocking. As far as testing goes, he's in a class of his own. He was a monster on the bench press, had a surprisingly good 40 time, and he aced the Wonderlic (best in class).

Blalock in a nutshell: Hard worker, leader, great character, strong, quick, smart and nasty.

Sorry guys, Arron Sears can't even hold his jock. Not even close.

He will be an absolute stud for years under Bobby Petrino in Atlanta, not only on the field but in the locker room as well.I'm sure Blalock will do a fine job for the birds, but to say Sears couldn't hold his jock is just....wrong!

Arron Sears was the cornerstone of the Tennessee offensive line as a senior. He played left tackle as a senior, and is very versatile, having played all positions apart from C, he was a Team Captain and the unquestioned leader of the line. He's a smart and driven player who puts in the extra work to be successful. Has exceptional lower body strength and once he drops anchor, he's not moving. He shows decent explosiveness and short area quickness. He uses his hands well to lock onto defenders and neutralize them quickly. He delivers a jolting punch to get defenders off balance. He is a technician who uses leverage and angles very effectively. He's an effective drive blocker with the strength to wall off defenders. As an All-American he also won the Jacobs Award, (given to the best blocker in the Southeastern Conference) he's also exhibited great durability, missing only two games due to injury since his freshman year, whats not to like?

etk
05-01-2007, 10:32 AM
I'm sure Blalock will do a fine job for the birds, but to say Sears couldn't hold his jock is just....wrong!

Arron Sears was the cornerstone of the Tennessee offensive line as a senior. He played left tackle as a senior, and is very versatile, having played all positions apart from C, he was a Team Captain and the unquestioned leader of the line. He's a smart and driven player who puts in the extra work to be successful. Has exceptional lower body strength and once he drops anchor, he's not moving. He shows decent explosiveness and short area quickness. He uses his hands well to lock onto defenders and neutralize them quickly. He delivers a jolting punch to get defenders off balance. He is a technician who uses leverage and angles very effectively. He's an effective drive blocker with the strength to wall off defenders. As an All-American he also won the Jacobs Award, (given to the best blocker in the Southeastern Conference) he's also exhibited great durability, missing only two games due to injury since his freshman year, whats not to like?

That's not nearly as impressive as Blalock. Blalock has better accolades and less weaknesses.

StaticGator
05-01-2007, 11:38 AM
That's not nearly as impressive as Blalock. Blalock has better accolades and less weaknesses.

They are different players. Sears is a better pass blocker and on the left side will face pass rushing DTs like Rod Coleman. Blalock is a better run blocker and on the right side has to deal with the more hold-your-ground nose tackle types and stouter defensive ends. They are different players. There is no reason to be having this pissing match.

etk
05-01-2007, 12:17 PM
They are different players. Sears is a better pass blocker and on the left side will face pass rushing DTs like Rod Coleman. Blalock is a better run blocker and on the right side has to deal with the more hold-your-ground nose tackle types and stouter defensive ends. They are different players. There is no reason to be having this pissing match.

Blalock is quicker and longer than Sears. He started at RT for over 3 years, successfully protecting Vince Young and leading a dynamic pass offense. As a Senior he moved to RG to become a lead blocker on pulls as Texas planned to become a more run-oriented team with a freshman QB at the helm. I don't think Sears is a better pass blocker, frankly I don't see any part of his game that Blalock isn't better at.....

StaticGator
05-01-2007, 12:40 PM
Blalock is quicker and longer than Sears. He started at RT for over 3 years, successfully protecting Vince Young and leading a dynamic pass offense. As a Senior he moved to RG to become a lead blocker on pulls as Texas planned to become a more run-oriented team with a freshman QB at the helm. I don't think Sears is a better pass blocker, frankly I don't see any part of his game that Blalock isn't better at.....

Sears played left tackle. I'll take that as a sign he's a better pass blocker.

Merlin
05-01-2007, 12:57 PM
That's not nearly as impressive as Blalock. Blalock has better accolades and less weaknesses.Well in that case we're screwed!.......It kinda makes you wonder how Tampas staff have jobs in the NFL?

etk
05-01-2007, 12:58 PM
Well in that case we're screwed!.......It kinda makes you wonder how Tampas staff have jobs in the NFL?

It does, maybe we need an overhaul in our scouting/team management departments.....

Merlin
05-01-2007, 01:06 PM
It does, maybe we need an overhaul in our scouting/team management departments.....Or maybe we're not in the best position to judge?....don't get me wrong, I'd love every pick to be justified, but if we were as good as we all thought, I know I wouldn't be here typing in a fan forum about it!

-black
05-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Or maybe we're not in the best position to judge?....don't get me wrong, I'd love every pick to be justified, but if we were as good as we all thought, I know I wouldn't be here typing in a fan forum about it!

that arguement is really played. Its as if our opinions can not be better or mean anything since we are not in position of management. I suppose you think Matt Millen has a better opinion than Scott.

since im taking up Sports Journalism this fall, you may see my opinions in print one day....then maybe it will be justified :)

Caddy
05-01-2007, 04:11 PM
that arguement is really played. Its as if our opinions can not be better or mean anything since we are not in position of management. I suppose you think Matt Millen has a better opinion than Scott.

since im taking up Sports Journalism this fall, you may see my opinions in print one day....then maybe it will be justified :)

Where are you going to study?

-black
05-01-2007, 07:01 PM
my major will be journalism

Canadian_kid16
05-01-2007, 07:39 PM
One of the things that really pissed me off about our draft was how we passed up on so many great players and our division rivals picked them all up. Carolina and Atlanta had tremendous drafts (minus L. Brown) and we can only blame ourselves in the future for passing up guys like Blalock, Kalil, Johnson, Jarrett & Houston.

honestly dude, I was saying the exact same thing about last years draft...you learn to like these guys after a while...

Caddy
05-01-2007, 10:18 PM
my major will be journalism

I assume you are going to do a bachelor of communications then? Which school are you heading to?

Merlin
05-02-2007, 06:28 AM
that arguement is really played. Its as if our opinions can not be better or mean anything since we are not in position of management. I suppose you think Matt Millen has a better opinion than Scott.

since im taking up Sports Journalism this fall, you may see my opinions in print one day....then maybe it will be justified :)I wouldn't say he has a better opinion, only that he's in a better position to judge and make formulated decisions.

We are all entitled to an opinion obviously, but some are better placed than others within the boundaries of the subject matter, ie, if my car breaks down, I'm more inclined to listen to a mechanics advice than a doctors......

StaticGator
05-02-2007, 08:54 AM
I wouldn't say he has a better opinion, only that he's in a better position to judge and make formulated decisions.

We are all entitled to an opinion obviously, but some are better placed than others within the boundaries of the subject matter, ie, if my car breaks down, I'm more inclined to listen to a mechanics advice than a doctors......

Team executives may be in better postions to make decisions while they are being made, but 4-5 years after the fact it's obvious to anyone whether it was a good or bad decision.

Merlin
05-02-2007, 12:57 PM
Team executives may be in better postions to make decisions while they are being made, but 4-5 years after the fact it's obvious to anyone whether it was a good or bad decision.Err....yeh, whats your point?

-black
05-02-2007, 01:30 PM
I wouldn't say he has a better opinion, only that he's in a better position to judge and make formulated decisions.

We are all entitled to an opinion obviously, but some are better placed than others within the boundaries of the subject matter, ie, if my car breaks down, I'm more inclined to listen to a mechanics advice than a doctors......

apples and oranges

I have played football for over 10 years, I have been around coaching and talent evaluators and I seriously doubt any GM watches exclusively more college football then me....I didnt have to go get a degree to understand college football players. ...I live, breath, and eat college football so I do know (and many others, like Mods of this board) know about these players. We can critisize picks and not have to just say "oh since he is a GM, he is right and im wrong"

Merlin
05-02-2007, 03:16 PM
apples and oranges

I have played football for over 10 years, I have been around coaching and talent evaluators and I seriously doubt any GM watches exclusively more college football then me....I didnt have to go get a degree to understand college football players. ...I live, breath, and eat college football so I do know (and many others, like Mods of this board) know about these players. We can critisize picks and not have to just say "oh since he is a GM, he is right and im wrong"OK, let me put it this way, what do your/mine opinion's count for exactly to an NFL franchise?

To be honest, I'm not gonna say I watch more college or pro ball than you, but I'm a fan with an opinion just like everyone else on here, but for what it's worth I have played and coached for 25 years in the UK and Europe.

I'm not saying that Carolinas picks are poor, far from it, I just think we had as good a draft as anyone, acctually the NFC South in general was of very high quality IMO.

Merlin
05-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Just found this http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=2854030

Caddy
05-02-2007, 04:18 PM
apples and oranges

I have played football for over 10 years, I have been around coaching and talent evaluators and I seriously doubt any GM watches exclusively more college football then me....I didnt have to go get a degree to understand college football players. ...I live, breath, and eat college football so I do know (and many others, like Mods of this board) know about these players. We can critisize picks and not have to just say "oh since he is a GM, he is right and im wrong"

I somehow doubt that any of our opinions would be as good or as knowledgeable. You live and breathe football or whatever, so do the college scouts but to a much larger degree. They watch the stuff everyday for crying out loud so I think the decisions they are making are being done for a reason.

Oh, and I think you give the mods a little more credit than they deserve.

-black
05-02-2007, 06:08 PM
I somehow doubt that any of our opinions would be as good or as knowledgeable. You live and breathe football or whatever, so do the college scouts but to a much larger degree. They watch the stuff everyday for crying out loud so I think the decisions they are making are being done for a reason.

Oh, and I think you give the mods a little more credit than they deserve.

i'm not comparing myself to a NFL scout. But a NFL GM. They have their team to run, and I gurentee they dont put as much time, effort, or scouting themselves into college football then me and many others. They get most of their scouting reports from scouts anyways.

Like I said, this is what i will be doing for a living so when my name is in print, then I guess I will be able to critisize something I dont like without someone saying "well the GM made the pick, so he is right"

ks_perfection
05-02-2007, 06:16 PM
Just found this http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=2854030

When Analysist give out those marks they don't take into consideration how high/low the teams picks were going into the draft. All they base there grades on are how much the team improved itself. TB had one of the strongest starting position, top 4 in each round and additional 2nd rounder. According to the grades we did almost as well as Carolina & Atlanta, but they managed to do it starting off in a much weaker position.

Watchman
05-02-2007, 07:09 PM
i'm not comparing myself to a NFL scout. But a NFL GM. They have their team to run, and I gurentee they dont put as much time, effort, or scouting themselves into college football then me and many others. They get most of their scouting reports from scouts anyways.

Like I said, this is what i will be doing for a living so when my name is in print, then I guess I will be able to critisize something I dont like without someone saying "well the GM made the pick, so he is right"

So you are comparing yourself to an NFL GM who has a staff of scouts, coaches, and talent evaluators at his disposal?

-black
05-02-2007, 09:06 PM
obviously no, but im too tired to go in circles with someone only wanting to quarell.

I stated my opinion, my opinion holds weight, and plenty of others agree with that opinion. Its just frustrating (and stupid IMO) to be debating something and when someone is backed into a corner and has no other information they resort to the "well the GM picked this guy, so he knows something we dont" and use that reason to say that im wrong and he is right. That last resort backpedaling doesnt ride with me.

Like I said, a ravid fan of the sport can be just as knowlegable about a player as ANY GM...and thats a fact. You do not need a title on a NFL team to be able to critisize decision making or state an opinion that differs greatly. You cant tell me there arent people, fans, and posters who are not more knowlegable about college football players and prospects than say a Matt Millen

etk
05-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Oh, and I think you give the mods a little more credit than they deserve.

After commie became a Mod (yesterday) they completely lost all credit in my books.

etk
05-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Many of you are giving GMs too much credit. Most of them hardly follow any prospects and their progress until after the season. The majority of their knowledge comes from the scouts and evaluators around them. GMs have to focus on roster management and the salary cap so they don't watch nearly as much tape or scout nearly as much as one would think. I think -black is bringing up an important point about growing up around football and knowing and understanding the game. I can relate as I have been playing, watching and following football since I was 8 years old. GMs might have more resources but fans like me, -black, etc. understand the game and business of the draft too. It's frustrating to argue with some of you over our recent draft class because I've been watching Justin Blalock dominate college football for years and I know he has the complete package for a G. Sears is a good player too but not nearly the same caliber, but many of you argue with me defending Gruden & Co. when I have doubts over how much direct knowledge you have of Arron Sears compared to Justin Blalock. It may be an exception, but I question Jon Gruden's authority in scouting when he takes a guy like Sears over Blalock. It really makes me wonder whether or not a spectator like -black knows more than he does.....

-black
05-02-2007, 09:31 PM
true, true, and yep...true

I'm done with this subject though. work and school is wearing me out, and I cant get worn out through discussions that are suppose to be fun :)

Caddy
05-02-2007, 10:16 PM
So you are comparing yourself to an NFL GM who has a staff of scouts, coaches, and talent evaluators at his disposal?

I personally value the opinions of GM's solely because they themselves, are able to receive information from numerous college scouts, coaches and talent evaluators. There is a reason why guys like A.J. Smith get so much credit for the drafting abilities which is that they have assembled a great staff whose opinions are generally a lot more in-depth and correct than fans of football.

Trying to determine whether a college player can transfer their skill sets to the pro game and the only way you can really find out is by giving them experience at the pro-level. I for one trust Allen/Chucky/etc that they saw something in Sears that Blalock did not have and hopefully it translates to the pro level.

etk
05-02-2007, 10:17 PM
I for one trust Allen/Chucky/etc that they saw something in Sears that Blalock did not have and hopefully it translates to the pro level.

Blind faith, I thought you were better than that.....

Caddy
05-02-2007, 10:28 PM
Blind faith, I thought you were better than that.....

I apologise for being optimistic about the future of the Buccaneers instead of being a pessimist.

Watchman
05-03-2007, 01:07 AM
I personally value the opinions of GM's solely because they themselves, are able to receive information from numerous college scouts, coaches and talent evaluators. There is a reason why guys like A.J. Smith get so much credit for the drafting abilities which is that they have assembled a great staff whose opinions are generally a lot more in-depth and correct than fans of football.

Trying to determine whether a college player can transfer their skill sets to the pro game and the only way you can really find out is by giving them experience at the pro-level. I for one trust Allen/Chucky/etc that they saw something in Sears that Blalock did not have and hopefully it translates to the pro level.

Hey I was just joking around. It is all a matter of opinion, especially when it comes to the fans. I think the main piece of information we, as fans, are lacking is the motivation each team has for selecting a specific player. There could be a long list of reasons why the Bucs targeted Sears over the other guards available, or it may just be that they had him ranked as the #1 guard in the draft.

I know that a lot of Buc fans were hoping they would draft Marcus Thomas, but the PR guys have said that Thomas wasn't even on their board because of character concerns. I've seen more than a few fans blasting the team for not taking Thomas, when apparently they never had any intention of selecting him in any round.

I'm optimistic after this draft, but I'm optimistic after every draft.

etk
05-03-2007, 07:04 AM
I know that a lot of Buc fans were hoping they would draft Marcus Thomas, but the PR guys have said that Thomas wasn't even on their board because of character concerns. I've seen more than a few fans blasting the team for not taking Thomas, when apparently they never had any intention of selecting him in any round.



I find that very hard to believe, especially considering how we got Jackson in the 4th instead. Where do these idiots reside?

StaticGator
05-03-2007, 07:33 AM
I personally value the opinions of GM's solely because they themselves, are able to receive information from numerous college scouts, coaches and talent evaluators. There is a reason why guys like A.J. Smith get so much credit for the drafting abilities which is that they have assembled a great staff whose opinions are generally a lot more in-depth and correct than fans of football.

The proof is in the pudding. AJ Smith's pick work because his players make the Pro Bowl and his team wins lots of games. The Bucs' picks don't work because they haven't drafted a Pro Bowler since 1998 (a kicker at that) and went 4-12 last year.

Merlin
05-03-2007, 08:11 AM
obviously no, but im too tired to go in circles with someone only wanting to quarell.

I stated my opinion, my opinion holds weight, and plenty of others agree with that opinion. Its just frustrating (and stupid IMO) to be debating something and when someone is backed into a corner and has no other information they resort to the "well the GM picked this guy, so he knows something we dont" and use that reason to say that im wrong and he is right. That last resort backpedaling doesnt ride with me.

Like I said, a ravid fan of the sport can be just as knowlegable about a player as ANY GM...and thats a fact. You do not need a title on a NFL team to be able to critisize decision making or state an opinion that differs greatly. You cant tell me there arent people, fans, and posters who are not more knowlegable about college football players and prospects than say a Matt MillenJeesh....you and etk take yourselves way to seriously, everybody's opinion holds weight to a degree, even mine!....lols, it just depends on what side of the fence you line up on.

Who's been backed into a corner?

Do you really believe that you have more information regarding players and the day to day workings of an NFL franchise, (which in case you didn't know play a part in any Draft/FA signing) you are either arrogant beyond belief, or just stupid!

Maybe you and etk can start your own club? I'm sure we've had a similar discussion with that FSU fan and his 60'000 mates?

And Static your last post is probably the most narrow minded piece of tosh I've read....you might want to look at the ingredients of the pudding before tasting it!

Caddy
05-03-2007, 08:46 AM
Jeesh....you and etk take yourselves way to seriously, everybody's opinion holds weight to a degree, even mine!....lols, it just depends on what side of the fence you line up on.

Who's been backed into a corner?

Do you really believe that you have more information regarding players and the day to day workings of an NFL franchise, (which in case you didn't know play a part in any Draft/FA signing) you are either arrogant beyond belief, or just stupid!

Maybe you and etk can start your own club? I'm sure we've had a similar discussion with that FSU fan and his 60'000 mates?

And Static your last post is probably the most narrow minded piece of tosh I've read....you might want to look at the ingredients of the pudding before tasting it!

That is some quality stuff Merlin. I actually laughed a little bit. :D

StaticGator
05-03-2007, 09:20 AM
Do you really believe that you have more information regarding players and the day to day workings of an NFL franchise, (which in case you didn't know play a part in any Draft/FA signing) you are either arrogant beyond belief, or just stupid!

Of course we don't but 3-4 years after the fact it is obvious to anyone with half a brain which draft picks or free agent signings were good and which weren't.

And Static your last post is probably the most narrow minded piece of tosh I've read....you might want to look at the ingredients of the pudding before tasting it!

So you don't think the moves the Bucs have made in the last 6-7 or so years are responsible for the team stinking on ice right now?

-black
05-03-2007, 09:48 AM
Jeesh....you and etk take yourselves way to seriously, everybody's opinion holds weight to a degree, even mine!....lols, it just depends on what side of the fence you line up on.

Who's been backed into a corner?

Do you really believe that you have more information regarding players and the day to day workings of an NFL franchise, (which in case you didn't know play a part in any Draft/FA signing) you are either arrogant beyond belief, or just stupid!

Maybe you and etk can start your own club? I'm sure we've had a similar discussion with that FSU fan and his 60'000 mates?

And Static your last post is probably the most narrow minded piece of tosh I've read....you might want to look at the ingredients of the pudding before tasting it!

what does this have to do with knowing, watching, and following college football (and cfball prospects) more than your average NFL GM?

I got a question, do you think Matt Millen knew more about Ernie Sims (a player I have followed since his junior year in HS....plus have watched every game of his at least twice and seen him play many times in person) then me when he drafted him last season? Just awnser the question, because I have a follow up

Watchman
05-03-2007, 12:56 PM
I got a question, do you think Matt Millen knew more about Ernie Sims (a player I have followed since his junior year in HS....plus have watched every game of his at least twice and seen him play many times in person) then me when he drafted him last season? Just awnser the question, because I have a follow up

I couldn't tell you if Millen knew more about Sims that you. I think a more appropriate question is did the Detroit Lions organization know more about Ernie Sims than you? If I had to bet I'd say the Lions were more informed than you.

-black
05-03-2007, 01:21 PM
I couldn't tell you if Millen knew more about Sims that you. I think a more appropriate question is did the Detroit Lions organization know more about Ernie Sims than you? If I had to bet I'd say the Lions were more informed than you.

http://www.under-the-gun.org/captainrex/Bullet-Time.jpg

Watchman
05-03-2007, 02:26 PM
Hey for all I know Millen has been following Sims since he was in diapers. I couldn't tell you one way or the other. But, he was probably still better informed about Sims than you were when they drafted him despite how long you've been following his career. Unless of course you are Ernie Sims, then I would have to say that you knew more about yourself, but Millen probably still new more about how you would fit within the Lions organization, defensive scheme, etc., etc.

Now stop making me defend Matt Millen, he's a clown.

-black
05-03-2007, 02:29 PM
ok............

Merlin
05-03-2007, 03:04 PM
Of course we don't but 3-4 years after the fact it is obvious to anyone with half a brain which draft picks or free agent signings were good and which weren't.



So you don't think the moves the Bucs have made in the last 6-7 or so years are responsible for the team stinking on ice right now?

Obviously after 3/4 years, but Black and I were talking about each years draft picks in general, and specifically Carolina's choices this year.

I certainly think they are a part of it....to a point!, but your post read in a specific way concerning the lack of pro-bowlers we have drafted, the pro bowl is a joke, ask yourself how Troy P made it after missing 90% of last season?

I would like to appologise though for being a bit blunt earlier "tosh" etc.

Merlin
05-03-2007, 03:05 PM
I couldn't tell you if Millen knew more about Sims that you. I think a more appropriate question is did the Detroit Lions organization know more about Ernie Sims than you? If I had to bet I'd say the Lions were more informed than you.Thank you!

etk
05-03-2007, 04:10 PM
Hey for all I know Millen has been following Sims since he was in diapers.

I've been following Ernie Sims since he was a HS Junior tearing it up so hard that they limited his practice reps to preserve his teammates. Do 16/17 year olds wear diapers?

Watchman
05-03-2007, 06:22 PM
I've been following Ernie Sims since he was a HS Junior tearing it up so hard that they limited his practice reps to preserve his teammates. Do 16/17 year olds wear diapers?

I'm sure there is a 16/17 year old that wears diapers somewhere, what I said was Millen may have been following Sims' career since he was in diapers. Look man, here's my point. I'm sure you are very familiar with Ernie Sims given that you have been following his career since forever. And I'm sure that on draft day last year you could have recalled games from Sims' career that Millen never even knew about. But, Millen was still more informed about Sims than you were. He has a staff of scouts, coaches, and personnel people working for him, ranking players, and developing their draft board. They all review tape, the scouts go to games. They, including Millen, attend the combine, Senior Bowl, pro days, bring the player in for workouts, take him out to dinner, conduct numerous personal interviews, tour him around the facilities, talk to the players college coaches, etc., etc., etc.

So you know a lot about Sims career, but Millen has a staff that has bascially dissected every aspect of this kid, and then provided that information to him. I get that you were a really big fan of his, but I just don't think that compares to the process and NFL team, picking at the top of the draft, goes through.

Now if I'm to suspend belief for a moment and presume that Millen is making draft choices in a vaccum then sure you know more about Ernie Sims than Matt Millen does. I just don't think that is the case though.

etk
05-03-2007, 08:58 PM
Millen is an ignorant buffoon. He might know 1000000 times more about Sims' character, background, etc. but all that matters is whether or not there is a big wideout available for him to spank the monkey to.

Watchman
05-04-2007, 12:41 AM
Millen is an ignorant buffoon. He might know 1000000 times more about Sims' character, background, etc. but all that matters is whether or not there is a big wideout available for him to spank the monkey to.

I agree.........