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LSUALUM99
04-30-2007, 02:47 PM
If the Cowboys pass defense is not rated in the top 10 in the NFL next year, I will personally call this draft a failure. No ifs ands or buts.

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 02:47 PM
I agree. With the players we have in the secondary, and the pass rush we are going to generate, we should own. We should be in the top 5 in the league in INT's as well.

robert_in_bigd
04-30-2007, 03:07 PM
Well, I at least I have something to hold you guys accountable for.

I don't believe the prediction for a minute unless Roy Williams overcomes his coverage problems by playing at 215lbs and Hamlin plays around 200 and focuses purely on coverage.

I hope we are number 1. O and D.

duckseason
04-30-2007, 03:07 PM
Agreed. (op) I'm excited to see what kind of pass rush we'll have. I'm glad we went with Spencer, because I think it addressed 2 needs with one pick. If he turns out to be a sack artist, then that alone should greatly improve our overall DB play. Hamlin and Roy will be scary if allowed to roam free. Newman's shutdown skills will be more apparent, and Henry won't need to worry about getting beat deep as much. He can play more physical, which is his strength. Love the Spencer pick. Makes a ton of sense. No excuses for Wade if he can't bring some major heat with the personnel we have at LB. So yeah, if our pass defense isn't excellent, I'll be highly disappointed.

jdnoyes
04-30-2007, 03:14 PM
LSU, I know you were in favor of secondary help, so i'm curious to know what your strategy would have been this weekend? ie who you would had picked instead, if you liked the Quinn deal etc.

Macarthur
04-30-2007, 04:04 PM
I think given their talent level, that is a reasonable expectation.

D-Unit
04-30-2007, 04:36 PM
Forget the pass defense ranking. I want W's!

Paul
04-30-2007, 05:01 PM
If the Cowboys pass defense is not rated in the top 10 in the NFL next year, I will personally call this draft a failure. No ifs ands or buts.

Alright I'm going to bring up the "ifs, ands or buts" here. Hypothetically, let's say that our pass def is ranked 15th, but Spencer gets 15 sacks and DROY, Nick Folk goes 24/25 FGA, Anderson plays like the second coming of Lorenzo Neal, Courtney Brown shows flashes of being a stud and we go 12-4. By your comments, that would be an unsuccessful draft?

LSUALUM99
04-30-2007, 05:15 PM
jdnoyes,

I would have traded down at 22, I don't have a problem with that. I liked the Quinn deal. But, I would have stayed at 36 and taken Weddle or Houston. I don't hate Spencer, I just think that trading down for a SECOND time in the second round was getting too cute and I wouldn't have traded the 36th pick to move up to 26. I would have either traded different picks or not moved up. If we could have gotten Houston I'd have been extatic. I even would have loved the Eric Wright pick at 53, but we moved down again.

I don't like the draft as a whole, I don't really like any one player. Free is probably the best draft pick we made in my mind and even that is a 'so so' pick with McQuistan on the roster.

Paul,

To answer your question, if we're #15 pass defense and Spencer has 15 sacks and is DROY that almost assuredly means that my supposition that we needed DB's as priority number 1 is true. If you have Spencer and Ware and you still rank less than top 10 it means your secondary is just HORRID.

I know that you were playing Devil's Advocate with your scenario but in my mind it just simply solidifies the supposition that DB's are our problem. Even if Folk plays like that and Anderson plays like Neal, we'll still have a glaring weakness in our team.

Again, if you have holes in your team, and you do not address them when the players you could have addressed them with are there, I consider it a failed draft.

D-Unit
04-30-2007, 05:30 PM
I think a major bonus about making that second trade that will have much bigger ramifications that anything else was the fact that with that trade the Eagles ended up taking KEVIN KOLB!

Seriously, they wouldn't have taken him in any other scenario. Kolb as the future of the Eagles makes me extremely happy!!! :D

...and I'll say Spencer > Houston > Weddle

Dcboys94
04-30-2007, 05:30 PM
we will be the # 4 O, and the #1 D, those are my predictions. we need a stud at RB then we'd definately be the #1 O, with our 2 back system we wont get 1 but close...thats why we get Mcfadden next year.

Paul
04-30-2007, 05:35 PM
Why the hell is everybody giving us McFadden?! Like I said It's only April, who says Julius won't have monster year? Jesus, alteast wait until November before you start masturbating to McFadden.

jdnoyes
04-30-2007, 05:35 PM
I don't care if we are 32nd in both if we at least win a playoff game i'll be happy.

D-Unit
04-30-2007, 05:39 PM
I don't care if we are 32nd in both if we at least win a playoff game i'll be happy.
I'm with you there. Alls I want is consistent progress.

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 05:41 PM
LSU, Spencer can take a dump on Houston and Weddle's chest. Are you a former DB? Becuase you sure as hell love them.

jdnoyes
04-30-2007, 05:44 PM
jdnoyes,

I would have traded down at 22, I don't have a problem with that. I liked the Quinn deal. But, I would have stayed at 36 and taken Weddle or Houston. I don't hate Spencer, I just think that trading down for a SECOND time in the second round was getting too cute and I wouldn't have traded the 36th pick to move up to 26. I would have either traded different picks or not moved up. If we could have gotten Houston I'd have been extatic. I even would have loved the Eric Wright pick at 53, but we moved down again.

I don't like the draft as a whole, I don't really like any one player. Free is probably the best draft pick we made in my mind and even that is a 'so so' pick with McQuistan on the roster.


I could have definately handled not doing the second trade down and taken Wright there, I think he could be the best CB in this class, but I just think the character concerns scared them off, but I don't think they should have. Like Savage said if you can stay clean in Vegas, you can stay clean anywhere.

He was the only CB worthy of being selected in that spot though, so I definately see your point. I think Jerry tends to get too cute at times, and the chance to get the high 4th round pick was huge in his eyes. Of course that pick became Stanback, a pick I really didn't like and still don't. I would have definately been happy with Wright instead of Marten and Stanback.

jdnoyes
04-30-2007, 05:44 PM
LSU, Spencer can take a dump on Houston and Weddle's chest. Are you a former DB? Becuase you sure as hell love them.

Interesting way to put it.

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 05:46 PM
Isn't it???

jdnoyes
04-30-2007, 05:47 PM
I was really hoping Weddle would have made it to 53, but I shoulda known better, he's the type of guy NFL teams fall in love with. I promise you they would've made that pick had he been there.

duckseason
04-30-2007, 05:50 PM
Why the hell is everybody giving us McFadden?! Like I said It's only April, who says Julius won't have monster year? Jesus, alteast wait until November before you start masturbating to McFadden.

Yeah, I agree. But I think a lot of the talk you see around here is based on the assumption that Jerry is the one with a McFadden highlight tape and a bottle of lube. Just seems like a distinct possibility. All things considered. I mean, we don't know what will happen at any position, so talking about RB is just as pointless as anything else. It just appears that we could be close to parting ways with JJ, and the whole McFadden idea is the most obvious scenario right now. But yeah, any talk right now about next years draft is beyond premature. Still fun to speculate from time to time though. That's essentially what this forum is based on. Without speculation, Scott would need another day job.

robert_in_bigd
04-30-2007, 05:54 PM
Stewart's time speed is 4.34 on a HAND WATCH .... which is usually a little slower. The 4.5 was an estimate coming out of high school -- not even a real number.

Love all of them next year be happy with one them (Slaton, McFadden or Stewart)

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 05:57 PM
Dude, that 4.34 is from wikipedia. I never believe wikipedia. I could go write McFadden runs a 1.5 40 right now. To be honest, Stewart looks more like a 4.5 to me. McFadden is definitly 4.3 on the field.

jdnoyes
04-30-2007, 05:59 PM
Might as stop arguing about who is faster, you'll know in about 11 months at the 2008 combine.

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 06:06 PM
No, they won't run, because they will both be top 10 picks. If I were the NFL, I would make the players run. If they are so good, what do they have to hide? Unless they are injuried, and I would have the NFL take their own X-Rays, to be sure.

robert_in_bigd
04-30-2007, 06:07 PM
Point taken - Slaton, McFadden and Stewart are all real fast. Let us move on. Will enjoy CFB 2007.

LSUALUM99
04-30-2007, 06:08 PM
LSU, Spencer can take a dump on Houston and Weddle's chest. Are you a former DB? Becuase you sure as hell love them.

No, I just recognize that the reason we didn't make a run in the playoffs and the reason we didn't win the division was the secondary. I'm in love with a team with few areas that can be exploited by the opposition. Every NFL team that played us after New Orleans found the exact whole to exploit and we haven't gotten appreciably more talented in that area.

duckseason
04-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Dude, that 4.34 is from wikipedia. I never believe wikipedia. I could go write McFadden runs a 1.5 40 right now. To be honest, Stewart looks more like a 4.5 to me. McFadden is definitly 4.3 on the field.

No. The 4.34 most people refer to was from a Nike camp. And he has been timed in the 4.3's more than once. The accuracy of 40 times is always up for debate, but I think you're underestimating his speed. He has ridiculous burst, and btw, have you ever seen him on kick returns? 4.5 guys don't take it to the house with regularity.
Regardless, after watching both kids, I think the difference in speed is minute.

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 06:15 PM
Oh, I did not know it was from a Nike camp.

LSU, the reason we got torched is because the QB could freakin fall asleep in the backfield and still not get touched. With that now fixed, our secondary will be fine.

duckseason
04-30-2007, 06:19 PM
No, I just recognize that the reason we didn't make a run in the playoffs and the reason we didn't win the division was the secondary. I'm in love with a team with few areas that can be exploited by the opposition. Every NFL team that played us after New Orleans found the exact whole to exploit and we haven't gotten appreciably more talented in that area.

Just to play devil's advocate, do you think that our coaching and/or lack of pass rush might deserve a substantial chunk of the blame for why our secondary struggled last year? I think the talent level of our DB's is matched by just a handful of other teams. But I could be wrong.

LSUALUM99
04-30-2007, 06:23 PM
Yes, it could be from a lack of pass rush, it could be because we had a bad scheme, it could be because of many factors.

Since everything in football is interrelated it's impossible to give all the blame to any one factor. Spencer may have 15 sacks and become DROY and that may propel our pass defense to a top 5 unit because of the pressure. If that happens I'm ecstatic.

I do think that we over estimate our talent level in the secondary and I want to upgrade the most obviously weak point. Perhaps we did by adding Hamlin.

As they say, time will tell, but I'm just saying that if the results aren't there, then this draft is a failure because going into it we knew the problem and didn't address it.

duckseason
04-30-2007, 06:32 PM
Yes, it could be from a lack of pass rush, it could be because we had a bad scheme, it could be because of many factors.

Since everything in football is interrelated it's impossible to give all the blame to any one factor. Spencer may have 15 sacks and become DROY and that may propel our pass defense to a top 5 unit because of the pressure. If that happens I'm ecstatic.

I do think that we over estimate our talent level in the secondary and I want to upgrade the most obviously weak point. Perhaps we did by adding Hamlin.

As they say, time will tell, but I'm just saying that if the results aren't there, then this draft is a failure because going into it we knew the problem and didn't address it.

Agreed. It's tough to really place the blame on one party for such a big collapse. It was likely a joint effort. One thing that scares me going into this year is what happens if one of our corners goes down. Not sure I have faith in anybody but the big 3. I wanted a top talent at the position pretty badly coming into the draft. I love the Spencer pick and obviously believe that it will improve our secondary play in itself, but I still want a big time corner. It'll be interesting to see how all this develops.

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 06:38 PM
Yes it is. Pass rush is everything. And it wasn't our defense's fault in the playoff game. Our offense should have put up at 35 on that defense.

robert_in_bigd
04-30-2007, 06:59 PM
Achilles, you need to put down the mocha latte. 35 points on Seattle in the rain with a QB who could not throw the ball well?

Achilles33
04-30-2007, 08:34 PM
T.O. and Glenn on Kelly Jennings and Pete Hunter? ANd they didn't have a great pass rush, so we should have owned. atleast 28 points.

pocketaces
04-30-2007, 09:02 PM
T.O. and Glenn on Kelly Jennings and Pete Hunter? ANd they didn't have a great pass rush, so we should have owned. atleast 28 points.


Yeah I agree with this. Parcells handcuffed us in this game. Should have been going to Chicago.

Modano
05-01-2007, 02:32 AM
Yes, it could be from a lack of pass rush, it could be because we had a bad scheme, it could be because of many factors.


I like your point. You believe our pass defense problems were most related with our DBs, that's a rationable point. Others believe they were related with our lack of pass rush. If their scenario is true, we should have a better pass defense this year, if your scenario is true we won't make improvement in this area.
I think our problems were most related with having zero pass rush, even if I think we should have grabbed a CB in the draft. So I take your "bet", because I believe our pass defense will be better because of the heat we'll bring to opposite QBs. I'm sure of that because of the Chargers last year, they had less talent on their DBs repart (Newman is better than Jammer and Henry is better than Florence - Cromartie, who's a ton of potential, barely played - and their starting safeties were McCree and Kiel). But I still believe that our line needs to play better in order to make our LBs effective on blitzs.

robert_in_bigd
05-01-2007, 08:49 AM
So Parcells stopped Romo from throwing one accurate pass with zip in the 1st Quarter of the Seattle game? Tony Romo played a horrible game in Seattle and in spite of it we would have won had we not turned over the ball.

Pass Rush will help the Corners. Pass Rush will not help TE and RB coverage. If you can not cover a TE or RB in this league (or slot receiver) you will be toasted.

Stop comparing our secondary (smarter to say COVERAGE) to SD. Donnie Edwards and Godfrey could cover a RB and TE. Roy and Bradie could not cover a ham sandwhich.

SD had much better coverage in 2006 even if they had worse talent at DB.

pocketaces
05-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Robert it amazes me that you actually like a team that can do no right. We dont have a G.M. We over value our players. Every move we make is stupid. We have too many of X kind of players and not enough of Y kind of players. I mean seriously if we suck so bad just go find another team. Go root for New England or the Colts. Go jump on the bandwagon. From day 1 you havent had anything good to say (overall) about Dallas and apperently I.Y.O. its hasnt and won't get any better as long as Jerry's here so why do you stay? It seems to me you actually hope we do bad so you can be the first one to say "I told you so." Its just seems so sad that you look for bad things to happen to prove a point even if it means "your team" is doing bad. Jerry's not going anywhere anytime soon so maybe you should.

Modano
05-01-2007, 03:25 PM
So Parcells stopped Romo from throwing one accurate pass with zip in the 1st Quarter of the Seattle game? Tony Romo played a horrible game in Seattle and in spite of it we would have won had we not turned over the ball.

Pass Rush will help the Corners. Pass Rush will not help TE and RB coverage. If you can not cover a TE or RB in this league (or slot receiver) you will be toasted.

Stop comparing our secondary (smarter to say COVERAGE) to SD. Donnie Edwards and Godfrey could cover a RB and TE. Roy and Bradie could not cover a ham sandwhich.

SD had much better coverage in 2006 even if they had worse talent at DB.

No, Godfrey can't cover a good TE or a good RB. Godfrey is a run thumper and if he cover an athletic RB o TE he get burned bad. Even Bradie James can cover Dan Campbell and this type of TEs or a RB like TJ Duckett, Jamal Lewis or Lamont Jordan.
But there are only a few LBs and safeties who can cover Shockey, LJ Smith, Cooley. We face these guys 2 times a year.
And Terrence Kiel sucks. There's absolutely no way he can be the same player as Roy Williams. Even if Roy Williams isn't that good in coverage, Kiel is by far the worst player.

robert_in_bigd
05-01-2007, 03:43 PM
Pocketaces, I want to win Superbowls. That is all I care about and since Jerry Jones took over as GM this team has gone nowhere. Part of the problem is how he builds his roster and the resulting holes. Jerry does not understand football. Building a team is a delicate balance. Words like delicate and balance are not understood by Jerry. And with respect to going somewhere well --- you know where you can go. Sorry the truth hurts. Just put me on ignore if you can't handle it. Always love this team and root for it.

robert_in_bigd
05-01-2007, 03:45 PM
No, Godfrey can't cover a good TE or a good RB. Godfrey is a run thumper and if he cover an athletic RB o TE he get burned bad. Even Bradie James can cover Dan Campbell and this type of TEs or a RB like TJ Duckett, Jamal Lewis or Lamont Jordan.
But there are only a few LBs and safeties who can cover Shockey, LJ Smith, Cooley. We face these guys 2 times a year.
And Terrence Kiel sucks. There's absolutely no way he can be the same player as Roy Williams. Even if Roy Williams isn't that good in coverage, Kiel is by far the worst player.

Modano, SD had much better coverage in 2006 than the Cowboys. Maybe have less talent but ..... either way I am not sure what all the hubbalo is about. Wade is here and we will see how things change.

D-Unit
05-01-2007, 03:46 PM
Another reason why I love the move of Carp to ILB. Carp CAN cover... or at least he was asked to at OSU. The promise is there. Spencer can also cover and was actually the scouted as the best coverage tweener in this draft despite his awesome pass rush numbers. He was second on his team in Passes Blocked with 6.

pocketaces
05-01-2007, 04:06 PM
Pocketaces, I want to win Superbowls. That is all I care about and since Jerry Jones took over as GM this team has gone nowhere. Part of the problem is how he builds his roster and the resulting holes. Jerry does not understand football. Building a team is a delicate balance. Words like delicate and balance are not understood by Jerry. And with respect to going somewhere well --- you know where you can go. Sorry the truth hurts. Just put me on ignore if you can't handle it. Always love this team and root for it.

THIS TEAM HAS GONE NOWHERE? Name 1 owner thats in the N.F.L. that has more superbowls than Jerry? Jerry hired Jimmy that was a great hire. Jerry hired Bill that was a great hire. Bill didnt work out the way we all hoped but it was still a great hire. Now we have Wade which i think is a great hire and I.M.O. Jerry had a great draft. Has he made mistakes? Sure but alot of teams/G.M.'s have. We have a great young team and a great futre all thanks to Jerry.

Modano
05-01-2007, 04:11 PM
Modano, SD had much better coverage in 2006 than the Cowboys. Maybe have less talent but ..... either way I am not sure what all the hubbalo is about. Wade is here and we will see how things change.

I think they had much better coverage because they had the best defense rushing the QB. It's easy to cover when opposite QBs have like 3 seconds to throw...

Achilles33
05-01-2007, 07:17 PM
We will have san diego's pressure, but a better overall D because our secondary is way more talented. Pshhht, please, Terence Newman can take a dump on Quentin Jammer.

Dcboys94
05-01-2007, 11:07 PM
come on TNEW Jammer aint that bad, but yes terence is better. yes i think wayy more talented as well but until they are productive it's up in the air

thule
05-02-2007, 04:36 PM
53 was really a toss up for me. Eric Wright would have been a excellent pick. I know I was high on McCauley...but either guy woulda been great. I'm still sticking to my guns that we were targetting Usama Young when we traded down...damn NO...but still can't really argue that much...CB talent was trash after Wright and McCauley went off the board...Wade was the next best guy...and he won't ever be a number 2 guy in this league. We got hamstringed by NO...in which case we brought in our depth factor on the OL...both were big needs but we went with the higher rated player. Only thing that keeps me from getting mad...is thinking that Marten can backup every position on the line outside of center.

Achilles33
05-02-2007, 04:46 PM
I was lobbying for McCauley as well. I would take him over Marten in the 3rd as well, because we got Free.

thule
05-02-2007, 04:59 PM
I was lobbying for McCauley as well. I would take him over Marten in the 3rd as well, because we got Free.

That's hindsight...we had no idea that Free would be available with our third.

Achilles33
05-02-2007, 05:01 PM
I know, but I still think I still would have taken McCauley. Is potential just makes me drool.