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View Full Version : Now Whose the Better OLB


jsagan77
10-25-2006, 04:10 PM
With all the alegations surrounding Marriman, the debate of who is better should arise between him and Ware.

Just to let you know, the steroid found in his body wasn't considered a steroid a year ago. It was a pro-hormone that you could buy over the counter at any GNC. Just recently the communist govn't of the US passed a bill making it, along with about 13 other harmless performance enhancers, illegal. Still it is just illegal to buy now, not to take so if he stocked up on it before it became illegal then he probably shouldn't get in trouble. But i'm guessing the NFL's list of performance enhancers is probably much more strict than the governments..

bearfan
10-25-2006, 04:14 PM
Ware cause he is all natural....as far as we know :D

jsagan77
10-25-2006, 04:15 PM
Ware cause he is all natural....as far as we know :D

Everyone in college and NFL are natural... :lol:

Staubach12
10-25-2006, 04:33 PM
Ware

Shiver
10-25-2006, 04:39 PM
It's a bit unfair to bury Merriman right now. There is no indication that he's a creation of steroids. Last time I checked, it's innocent until proven guilty. Even then, it's entirely likely that he got a mix-up of supplements.

That said, they are very close. They are both great 3-4 Rush LBs, and I would say the best two in the game right now. I voted for Ware, but it was a toss up to me. Overall, I think Ware is much improved over last year.

BrownsTown
10-25-2006, 04:40 PM
It's a bit unfair to bury Merriman right now. There is no indication that he's a creation of steroids. Last time I checked, it's innocent until proven guilty. Even then, it's entirely likely that he got a mix-up of supplements.

That said, they are very close. They are both great 3-4 Rush LBs, and I would say the best two in the game right now. I voted for Ware, but it was a toss up to me. Overall, I think Ware is much improved over last year.
No, the people who did the test said it was straight up steroids, not supplements or other stuff.

Shiver
10-25-2006, 04:44 PM
You can get mix-ups, when you use supplements. Patrick Kerney was on JRIB and said that if you aren't careful, you can accidentally take in something you aren't aware of. Which is why he goes to reputable, NFL approved, supplements to avoid those kinds of mix-ups. I think most people are ASSuming Shawne Merriman intentionally was taking Nandrolone.

LonghornsLegend
10-25-2006, 04:46 PM
i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....

Space Ghost
10-25-2006, 05:13 PM
I like Ware more, i admit he wasn't as good last year, but they were rookies. If it weren't for the steroids I would have voted Merriman, but I don't like voting for cheaters. Before the draft I had Ware pegged as better. After last year Merriman. After this week, Ware again.

NIN1984
10-25-2006, 05:15 PM
Ware now

10-25-2006, 05:18 PM
There's no way to know how much the substance helped him so I still vote Merriman.

VoteLynnSwan
10-25-2006, 05:35 PM
I voted Merriman just because i'm tired of cowboy homers.

SeanTaylorRIP
10-25-2006, 05:45 PM
Oh how the board has turned on Merriman the once worshiped is now hated, I'm still staying with my boy from the MD he was a beast at Maryland and as far as I know wasn't on steroids.

Pokeys
10-25-2006, 05:51 PM
Ware is a much more balanced player and better all round. If Merriman isnt blitzing than he isnt effective.

Jonathan_VIlma
10-25-2006, 05:53 PM
i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....
The only argument you can make for Ware is that he's could be the better edge rusher. Merriman is one of the best tacklers in the league and is often blowing up run plays, as well as pass.

thetedginnshow
10-25-2006, 05:54 PM
i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....
The only argument you can make for Ware is that he's could be the better edge rusher. Merriman is one of the best tacklers in the league and is often blowing up run plays, as well as pass.

I'd say Ware's better against the pass. But anyway, I'd go Ware, but I may be biased, because I've never liked Merriman.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2006, 07:26 PM
First, before evaluating the players, in terms of the positive steroid test, I think we cannot write off Merriman just yet. It couldve very well have been a mistake, or a dumb attempt at recovering quickly from an injury, but regardless, we cannot negate all his past success unless we see a dramatic dropoff in his on field production from now on. Then we can conclude that he was using steroids all along, and he isn't a great player without them. Last time I checked, Peppers was suspended too his rookie year for substance violation. Oh how quickly we forget, don't we? Fastforward 4 years, and Peppers has more ***** riders than Ron Jeremy. As far as the HGH accusations go...look, A LOT of players use it. Id say anywhere from 35-40% of the league uses it. So we can't single him out on that.

Now, their games. A 3-4 OLB's ability is based on the following. His ability to stuff the run, rush the passer, drop in coverage, tackle, versatility, and "it" factor.

Run Stuffing - edge - Ware. Only slightly though. Merriman is a great run stuffer too, but Ware never misses a tackle and raps up real good. He can do a better job sideline to sideline, and is nearly impossible to run at. Merriman sometimes overpursues and misses his gap.

Pass rushing - edge - Merriman. Merriman is fast enough to burn the edge, strong enough to bull rush. Thats why he can line up inside and bullrush a guard, or bullrush a LT if need be. He is simply a better rusher at the moment. Thats not saying Ware is bad, but Merriman is just better. Ware still has a hard time disengaging off a Tackles blocks sometimes, Merriman releases better and gets better push.

Coverage - edge - Ware. By a mile. He's a much better defender in coverage. No explanation needed really.

Tackling - edge - Ware. Ware is a more sound tackler. He does a better job wrapping up. Merriman too many times tries to put a big hit instead of wrapping up. Ware's tackles aren't as fancy, but the bottomline is he makes all of them, whereas Merriman can miss one here and there.

Versatility - edge - Tie. Ware's better in coverage. Both can play OLB and DE, both can rush standing or kneeling. Because Merriman can bullrush better, he's able to play more ILB pass rushing roles than Ware. At least thats what we've seen. Parcells doesn't use Ware like that but I think he could do it too. I think in terms of versatility its too close to call.

IT factor - edge - Merriman. Lets face it, up to this point, he's made more plays, and has had bigger moments in big games. Because of that, at the moment you gotta give it to Merriman.

Right now, I honestly don't know which one Id take. Ware is catching fire, and I think if Parcells was more creative with him, Ware would have better numbers. But Merriman is also beastly, and has the numbers. Right now its a tie as far as talent goes. Take the off the field stuff for whats its worth, but on the field its a tie as of right now.

yourfavestoner
10-25-2006, 08:33 PM
BBD, Peppers was caught using ephedra, which is a stimulant, not a performance enhancing substance.

bigbluedefense
10-25-2006, 08:57 PM
BBD, Peppers was caught using ephedra, which is a stimulant, not a performance enhancing substance.

Yeah, but with the widespread use of HGH in trhe NFL, we'd be foolish to assume that he's not a prime suspect. And also, remember, a doctor for Carolina gave out steroids, plus he plans on writing a book with more high profile names included in it. That story is far from over.

moc182
10-25-2006, 09:19 PM
Ware was always the more complete player. Merriman got alot of the attention and acclaim because of his pass rushing ability. Although I love Ware's all around game, I'd still probably prefer Merriman, because rushing the passer is so, so important.

Jughead10
10-25-2006, 09:20 PM
Ware was always better even before all this broke.

njx9
10-25-2006, 09:32 PM
You can get mix-ups, when you use supplements. Patrick Kerney was on JRIB and said that if you aren't careful, you can accidentally take in something you aren't aware of. Which is why he goes to reputable, NFL approved, supplements to avoid those kinds of mix-ups. I think most people are ASSuming Shawne Merriman intentionally was taking Nandrolone.

so he's a moron for putting something into his body without having any idea what it actually was. in the nfl (as people have pointed out for years, just ask lance) you dang well better know what you're putting into your body. i do not buy the "accident" BS for one second, unless we're going to call merriman an absolute moron, which, imo, ends this argument anyways.

San Diego Chicken
10-25-2006, 09:41 PM
I get to watch Merriman more than Ware, but I think that Merriman is much more dominant. Ware is well balanced, but doesn't change the game like Merriman does. His upside is greater than Ware's as well being two years younger.

draftguru151
10-25-2006, 09:44 PM
Seriously, I would have taken Ware before the whole steroid issue.

L6
10-25-2006, 10:28 PM
the people on this forum are so fickle

Shiver
10-25-2006, 10:38 PM
You can get mix-ups, when you use supplements. Patrick Kerney was on JRIB and said that if you aren't careful, you can accidentally take in something you aren't aware of. Which is why he goes to reputable, NFL approved, supplements to avoid those kinds of mix-ups. I think most people are ASSuming Shawne Merriman intentionally was taking Nandrolone.

so he's a moron for putting something into his body without having any idea what it actually was. in the nfl (as people have pointed out for years, just ask lance) you dang well better know what you're putting into your body. i do not buy the "accident" BS for one second, unless we're going to call merriman an absolute moron, which, imo, ends this argument anyways.


I lean towards the lapse of judgement, aka moron, rather than cheater.

P-L
10-25-2006, 10:42 PM
I would've taken Merriman by a small margin before the steroids, and that hasn't changed. I still take him by a little.

bearsfan_51
10-25-2006, 10:45 PM
Whose is a possesive. Like, "whose socks are these?".

You want who is, or who's.

Thank you.

jackalope
10-26-2006, 05:22 PM
if it's true that Merriman's always been taking them, then Ware

10-26-2006, 05:58 PM
Untill I see Merriman become worse when he's of the 'roids then I still pick him.

CC.SD
10-26-2006, 07:12 PM
Merriman makes more plays, and will continue to make more plays his entire career.

snobdmat
10-27-2006, 12:42 AM
wow one incident and merriman is discredited for his numbers last year.


i would still take lights out merriman over ware any day of the week and twice on sunday

10-27-2006, 12:44 AM
wow one incident and merriman is discredited for his numbers last year.


i would still take lights out merriman over ware any day of the week and twice on sunday

well you are a chargers fan...

snobdmat
10-27-2006, 12:45 AM
great observation but i would still take merriman b/c of the numbers

villagewarrior
10-27-2006, 03:31 AM
You guys are crazy, Derrick Johnson is the best linebacker of that class. :D

soybean
10-27-2006, 05:01 AM
is tatupu an olb?

portermvp84
10-27-2006, 08:13 AM
I hate them both, but I'll take Ware.

OzTitan
10-27-2006, 09:12 AM
Ware, I've always really liked him, he seems like a more rounded player to me.

XxXdragonXxX
10-27-2006, 03:10 PM
is tatupu an olb?

No.

Shiver
10-27-2006, 07:04 PM
You guys are crazy, Derrick Johnson is the best linebacker of that class. :D


I agree with that. All the morons who said he couldn't tackle before the '05 draft. :roll:

The Panthers took Thomas Davis over him.. :lol:

thule
10-27-2006, 07:08 PM
You guys are crazy, Derrick Johnson is the best linebacker of that class. :D


I agree with that. All the morons who said he couldn't tackle before the '05 draft. :roll:

The Panthers took Thomas Davis over him.. :lol:

Tackle....do you mean couldn't shed blocks and didn't really have great tackling technique?

Shiver
10-27-2006, 07:09 PM
A few analysts, Hoge for example, said he was afraid of contact and didn't like the tackle or shed blocks.

thule
10-27-2006, 07:11 PM
A few analysts, Hoge for example, said he was afraid of contact and didn't like the tackle or shed blocks.

Ya but didn't like to...is alot different then saying he couldn't.

yourfavestoner
10-27-2006, 07:29 PM
A few analysts, Hoge for example, said he was afraid of contact and didn't like the tackle or shed blocks.

I remember Hoge saying that Derrick Johnson would be out of the league in three years.

Johnson's problem wasn't that he couldn't tackle, or didn't want to. It's just that he didn't have that good of technique, and would try to land big hits, instead of just wrapping up and making the safe play. That's easily correctable.

BlindSite
10-27-2006, 10:18 PM
BBD, Peppers was caught using ephedra, which is a stimulant, not a performance enhancing substance.

Yeah, but with the widespread use of HGH in trhe NFL, we'd be foolish to assume that he's not a prime suspect. And also, remember, a doctor for Carolina gave out steroids, plus he plans on writing a book with more high profile names included in it. That story is far from over.

Shortt gave steroid creams and nothing else to everyone except for Toddles...

Oh and you're foolish just to assume he's a prime suspect, other than using ephedra in his rookie season he's been 100% clean in every test ever done. Don't be a hater just because he's ten times the defensive end either of New Yorks are...

The Legend
10-27-2006, 10:39 PM
well Lights Out is good but overrated

but ware is also goos but a lil bit underated but

out of the to listed im going with 56

bigbluedefense
10-30-2006, 10:07 AM
BBD, Peppers was caught using ephedra, which is a stimulant, not a performance enhancing substance.

Yeah, but with the widespread use of HGH in trhe NFL, we'd be foolish to assume that he's not a prime suspect. And also, remember, a doctor for Carolina gave out steroids, plus he plans on writing a book with more high profile names included in it. That story is far from over.

Shortt gave steroid creams and nothing else to everyone except for Toddles...

Oh and you're foolish just to assume he's a prime suspect, other than using ephedra in his rookie season he's been 100% clean in every test ever done. Don't be a hater just because he's ten times the defensive end either of New Yorks are...

Ah, name calling, the best type of argument. I believe that alot of players are using HGH, so maybe I was wrong in singling out Peppers here. The point I was trying to make is that Merriman isn't the only one, and I cited Peppers as one example. You don't think Peppers is on something? Come on, if he was all natural we would see at least 3 other players in the league with at the very least comparable athleticism. But he's not the only one I accuse. I wouldn't be surprised at all if theres guys on my team using it too.

Back on topic, Merriman had 3 sacks yesterday. That gives him 8.5 for the season. He is outperforming DeMarcus Ware on the field this year, thats hard to argue. He is a much better pass rusher from what Ive seen as well. DWare was pretty unimpressive rushing the passer last night. Of course Ware is more balanced, but rushing the passer is a such a premium.

If the steroid results didn't come out, it would be impossible to argue that DWare is the better player this year. Now because of the test, you gotta take Merriman's performance with a grain of salt. I do think however, that even after the test that this man will continue to play beastly, even when off the roids. That test was done awhile ago, and I doubt he's still doing roids before this game, yet he still put up 3 sacks. But still, evaluating him as a player has gotten a little bit tougher because of the "what ifs".

I think right now Merriman is still the better player. The season is still young though, and Ware is still damn good. I need to see more pass rush out of Ware, he's been disappointing me in that area. He doesn't disengage off linemen very well on pass rushes.

San Diego Chicken
10-30-2006, 04:22 PM
If Merriman didn't have the suspension to worry about, he'd be on his way to a 19 sack season. The year Lawrence Taylor won league MVP, he had a 20 1/2 sack season. I don't think it's even a question that Merriman is one of a handful of game changers on the defensive side of the ball. I really don't think Ware makes close to the impact on a football game that Merriman does. Let's be honest here, if the steroid scandal hadn't broke last week the results of this poll would be flipped around.

LonghornsLegend
10-30-2006, 04:43 PM
i would of been more interested in this poll before the accusations....i like both players, ALOT....more complete is ware though....i see ware rushing the passer from the down lineman position and upright as the OLB, merriman is usually rushing standing up, ware seems to be able to do more, and get to the passer both ways, he is getting to the point where he is going to be impossible to stop unless you use 2 blockers....
The only argument you can make for Ware is that he's could be the better edge rusher. Merriman is one of the best tacklers in the league and is often blowing up run plays, as well as pass.


no thats not the only argument....merriman is REALLY great at blitzing standing up, thats it....


he's not better at rushing the passer in a down stance, nor is he better in pass coverage

The Legend
10-30-2006, 09:14 PM
i think there diffrent

Ware is a better tackler
Merriman is a better pass rusher

jmanz
10-31-2006, 02:54 PM
I'd take Merriman. Not that Ware isn't great, but Merriman is just awesome.

dcarey20
10-31-2006, 03:52 PM
if we are just talking about how good they are, no steroids, merriman is much better than ware...do you guys watch them? ware is no where near as dominant as shawne. shawne has 8.5 sacks and ware has 3

and shawne has more tackles and is in on way more plays.....to say ware is a more complete player is crazy.

but i can understand that everyone will vote against merriman because of the steroids.

Shiver
10-31-2006, 03:56 PM
Merriman is also stellar against the run, he just isn't oft-noticed for it. I think Dick Vermeil did a great job highlighting just how good he is on run defense in week one.

Flyboy
10-31-2006, 08:47 PM
I'd still take Merriman.

k2isasoldier
11-08-2006, 02:34 AM
I'd take Merriman. Not that Ware isn't great, but Merriman is just awesome.


LIGHTS OUT BABY HES AWESOME WARE IS AWFUL