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pocketaces
05-02-2007, 09:42 PM
Pat jones who was head coach at Oklahoma state and an assistant coach in Oakland and Miami is now on our sports talk radio. He said that he talked to some people from the Dolphins and they told him that Quinn was rated so far away from their #9 pick that they couldn't justify taking him. They also told him they had Beck rated closer to Quinn than they had Quinn rated to the #9 pick. Just thought that was interesting and wanted to share.

757Dawg
05-02-2007, 10:03 PM
Typical Miami Dolphins.

They picked this kid apart until they somehow convinced themselves he just isn't that good. That's sad.

Same thing happened to Dan Marino. Miami was lucky enough to be the team to take advantage.

Fast forward 24 years and it's the Dolphins making the same mistake. This time around...the Browns are the ones taking advantage.

D-Unit
05-02-2007, 11:15 PM
Typical Miami Dolphins.

They picked this kid apart until they somehow convinced themselves he just isn't that good. That's sad.

Same thing happened to Dan Marino. Miami was lucky enough to be the team to take advantage.

Fast forward 24 years and it's the Dolphins making the same mistake. This time around...the Browns are the ones taking advantage.
HOMER ALERT! HOMER ALERT!

tbraton
05-07-2007, 08:35 AM
HOMER ALERT! HOMER ALERT!

TURD ALERT! TURD ALERT!

Macarthur
05-07-2007, 11:23 AM
Norm on the Ticket said one of his NFL "deep throats" said all things being equal, he would probably take Beck straight up over Quinn.

bigbluedefense
05-07-2007, 12:13 PM
I think Brady will prove alot of people wrong once he gets on that field.


Thats barring the Cleveland curse though.

I have him as the best qb from this class, followed by Beck. Im not a big Russell fan.

Its amazing though, just a month before the draft Beck was being pegged as a round 4 qb, then he shoots up the board all the way to round 2, being compared to Quinn. How does that happen?

Sometimes I think we as draft dorks overanalyze things and once we get too much time to think about things, we go against our initial gut instinct and I think Brady Quinn is a prime example of that.

Burns336
05-07-2007, 01:07 PM
Quarterbacks chosen in the first round over the past 15 years or so have a 50% bust potential. There was an entire article listing all of the QB's taken in the first round w/ analysis talking about why they were/weren't busts and I found that pretty interesting. I thought given some of the names on there the bust potential could have been much higher, but they were going off of someone being a total flop, not just being average even though expecations for them were enormous. So statistically speaking, Either Russell or Quinn should end up failing in this league. Now stats don't mean much, and both could turn out to be great, but the current trend implies that one of these guys will fail... Im willing to bet, and hoping for our sake that its Quinn.

bigbluedefense
05-07-2007, 01:17 PM
Quarterbacks chosen in the first round over the past 15 years or so have a 50% bust potential. There was an entire article listing all of the QB's taken in the first round w/ analysis talking about why they were/weren't busts and I found that pretty interesting. I thought given some of the names on there the bust potential could have been much higher, but they were going off of someone being a total flop, not just being average even though expecations for them were enormous. So statistically speaking, Either Russell or Quinn should end up failing in this league. Now stats don't mean much, and both could turn out to be great, but the current trend implies that one of these guys will fail... Im willing to bet, and hoping for our sake that its Quinn.

I think however, what that stat fails to acknowledge is that the "bust" rate of later round qbs is probably even higher than 1st round qbs.

While it may be 50% for 1st round qbs, later round qbs who go on to become solid to great NFL qbs is more close to 20%.

I think the bottomline is you shouldn't go after the "franchise" qb until you have the pieces around him that can put him in a position to be successful.

D-Unit
05-07-2007, 01:26 PM
I liked Quinn over Russell, who I often teased is the next Quincy Carter. LOL. Honestly, I think Russell and Quinn will have decent careers, just not HOF careers.

bigbluedefense
05-07-2007, 01:29 PM
Me personally, Im just more of a fan of the intangibles over the measureables. Especially at the qb position.

Im honestly not a fan of qbs to begin with. Im a defensive buff. As long as my qb can manage the game and limit mistakes, and come through when need be, thats all I want out of the qb position.

I rather build through defense and the run game. Another reason why Im not a fan of Tom Coughlin...

D-Unit
05-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Me personally, Im just more of a fan of the intangibles over the measureables. Especially at the qb position.

Im honestly not a fan of qbs to begin with. Im a defensive buff. As long as my qb can manage the game and limit mistakes, and come through when need be, thats all I want out of the qb position.

I rather build through defense and the run game. Another reason why Im not a fan of Tom Coughlin...
I share the exact same sentiment. Alls I want at QB is a smart guy who won't committ turnovers. Defense and the Running game rule all.

bigbluedefense
05-07-2007, 04:07 PM
I share the exact same sentiment. Alls I want at QB is a smart guy who won't committ turnovers. Defense and the Running game rule all.

Yup. Thats what wins championships. It doesn't have to look pretty. All that matters is the final score.

Especially if youre a team in the Northeast or Midwest. Over there, unless you play in a dome, you'd be a moron to build your team on the high power offensive philosophy.


*Sigh....I hate Tom Coughlin...

JoeMontainya
05-07-2007, 06:17 PM
Quarterbacks chosen in the first round over the past 15 years or so have a 50% bust potential. There was an entire article listing all of the QB's taken in the first round w/ analysis talking about why they were/weren't busts and I found that pretty interesting. I thought given some of the names on there the bust potential could have been much higher, but they were going off of someone being a total flop, not just being average even though expecations for them were enormous. So statistically speaking, Either Russell or Quinn should end up failing in this league. Now stats don't mean much, and both could turn out to be great, but the current trend implies that one of these guys will fail... Im willing to bet, and hoping for our sake that its Quinn.

They are not bust because of their skills. They just dont develope because
#1 - there usually drafted high in RD1 to bad teams
#2 - And the bad teams have little weapons to help them along.

Burns336
05-07-2007, 06:48 PM
They are not bust because of their skills. They just dont develope because
#1 - there usually drafted high in RD1 to bad teams
#2 - And the bad teams have little weapons to help them along.

I never said he didnt have skills, I just pointed out the trend that implies one of these guys should be a complete bust. The only stat Having to do with brady quin that really holds any weight with me is 0-4 against USC and 0-3 in Bowl games. 0-7 in what I think are 7 of the biggest games of his career. (USC is important every year for Notre Dame and of couse the Bowl Game is important) I just think he may have been a bit overhyped due to playing at an overhyped program. Im glad we didn't take him.

Achilles33
05-07-2007, 06:58 PM
Hell yea BBD. Quinn is a good QB. Russell is a freakin fat, stupid, bust.

j05son
05-08-2007, 02:35 AM
I never said he didnt have skills, I just pointed out the trend that implies one of these guys should be a complete bust. The only stat Having to do with brady quin that really holds any weight with me is 0-4 against USC and 0-3 in Bowl games. 0-7 in what I think are 7 of the biggest games of his career. (USC is important every year for Notre Dame and of couse the Bowl Game is important) I just think he may have been a bit overhyped due to playing at an overhyped program. Im glad we didn't take him.

Notre Dame overhyped; yes.

However, without Brady Quinn, the Irish would have been a .500 team.

Seriously, how good would Jamarcus have done in the Sugar Bowl if he was going up against his own defense. Russell probably struggled in practice trying to go up against that defense. Notre Dame is a popular team, and plays good competition. A lot of which is on another level than they are.

Without Quinn, USC would have lost to UCLA, Michigan State, and Georgia Tech [that comes to mind]...Also, a Reggie Bush push beat ND.

If Notre Dame wasn't Notre Dame, they wouldn't have been playing in the Sugar Bowl. Quinn's collegiate career was quite good. The coaching he has had was quite good. His teammates, defense, offensive line, etc; not so much.

I don't think you can emphasis those games as much as people are trying too. ND wasn't suppose to win. Their name is big, but the talent differentials between them and LSU/USC/Michigan/OSU are vast...

j05son
05-08-2007, 02:36 AM
I think however, what that stat fails to acknowledge is that the "bust" rate of later round qbs is probably even higher than 1st round qbs.

While it may be 50% for 1st round qbs, later round qbs who go on to become solid to great NFL qbs is more close to 20%.

I think the bottomline is you shouldn't go after the "franchise" qb until you have the pieces around him that can put him in a position to be successful.

I loved this post...

leroyisgod
05-08-2007, 08:12 AM
Hell yea BBD. Quinn is a good QB. Russell is a freakin fat, stupid, bust.

Great intelligent post

Macarthur
05-08-2007, 09:43 AM
I share the exact same sentiment. Alls I want at QB is a smart guy who won't committ turnovers. Defense and the Running game rule all.

I would disagree slightly. I do believe you have to have a QB capable of making plays. You don't have to have Brady or Manning, but it sure helps your odds. Really, you can count on one hand the number of teams that have won a SB with the "bus driver" QB. Your odds go way up with a top QB that can make plays.

D-Unit
05-08-2007, 12:40 PM
I would disagree slightly. I do believe you have to have a QB capable of making plays. You don't have to have Brady or Manning, but it sure helps your odds. Really, you can count on one hand the number of teams that have won a SB with the "bus driver" QB. Your odds go way up with a top QB that can make plays.
How many of those QBs won without a very strong defense and strong running game? Often times those 2 things can make a QB look better than he is. I would even venture to say that Troy Aikman was exactly what I said... A smart QB that won't make turnovers. ...a bus driver type? Maybe true.

thule
05-08-2007, 04:43 PM
How many of those QBs won without a very strong defense and strong running game? Often times those 2 things can make a QB look better than he is. I would even venture to say that Troy Aikman was exactly what I said... A smart QB that won't make turnovers. ...a bus driver type? Maybe true.

Aikman was the most accurate passer of all time if I'm not mistaken...he was far from a Trent Dilfer type quarterback.

Macarthur
05-08-2007, 05:19 PM
How many of those QBs won without a very strong defense and strong running game? Often times those 2 things can make a QB look better than he is. I would even venture to say that Troy Aikman was exactly what I said... A smart QB that won't make turnovers. ...a bus driver type? Maybe true.

But it's a chicken and egg situation. There's no question Dilfer would not have won one without that great defense. The problem is that with championship teams the two are not mutually exclusive. There's a reason why great teams win. I just think history shows that most of the teams that win have QBs that are at least in the upper third of the league.

And I would agree with Rule. Aikman made big-time throws very consistently.

j05son
05-08-2007, 09:58 PM
I think if you're going to talk Super Bowl winners, then you have a well rounded team. With all that said, a quarterback is one of the most important positions and is needed for that well rounded team (as is the LT, RB, playmaker on offense, that guy that is money whenever you need him to be, clutch kicker, good defense, superb coaching, etc).

I think if you're talking Super Bowl caliber teams, they are almost complete packages [even if it's JUST that year]. The field general of the offense is almost a staple in those caliber of teams...

LSUALUM99
05-12-2007, 07:32 PM
Here's the deal. To be a consistantly winning team you need good QB play.

Any team that has been good for 4+ years in a row has a very good QB during that stretch. Any team can catch lighting in a bottle and win for one year without one (Baltimore, Tampa Bay, etc) but the consistant winners all have one thing in common; QB play.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2007, 07:47 PM
Here's the deal. To be a consistantly winning team you need good QB play.

Any team that has been good for 4+ years in a row has a very good QB during that stretch. Any team can catch lighting in a bottle and win for one year without one (Baltimore, Tampa Bay, etc) but the consistant winners all have one thing in common; QB play.

I think me and D-Unit are being mistaken as saying that a "bus driver" qb equates to Trent Dilfer.


Im not trying to say that at all. What Im saying is, that a team built on minimizing the need for stellar qb play, built on defense and the run game are often the more successful teams as a whole.

If you want consistent success, you need a defense and a run game. Look at Philadelphia. Theyve won without McNabb in a pass happy WCO not just this past year, but even prior to that. Because of stellar defense, and in their case, great oline play.

Now to be a championship team, of course you need that qb to get you over the hump. But you don't need a Peyton Manning. You can win championships with a bus driver type of qb who can make plays when need be. Bus driver is often considered a derogatory term for a qb. I don't feel that way at all. Thats what I want out of my offense.

Just because a qb is given the role of bus driver, doesn't mean he can't make plays. I would favor a bus driver type of offense run by a qb who can make plays when called upon. I think to a certain extent, Aikman was a bus driver. Simms was a busdriver. Bradshaw was a bus driver. All the SB teams by the Skins had bus driver qbs.

robert_in_bigd
05-13-2007, 12:41 PM
Pat jones who was head coach at Oklahoma state and an assistant coach in Oakland and Miami is now on our sports talk radio. He said that he talked to some people from the Dolphins and they told him that Quinn was rated so far away from their #9 pick that they couldn't justify taking him. They also told him they had Beck rated closer to Quinn than they had Quinn rated to the #9 pick. Just thought that was interesting and wanted to share.


Is this the same Dolphins team that fell in love with Ronnie Brown -- a guy they now hate in South Florida -- when they had the more productive Cadillac Williams to pick.

SO instead of Quinn they go Ted Ginn? Huh?

That franchise has some very very dumb football people.