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Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 07:26 PM
Who is the best QB coming out of the 2008 Draft Class?

Bengals1690
05-03-2007, 07:29 PM
imo its brohm, but he wont go 1st. he will get the leinart/quinn treatment

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 07:31 PM
If Woodson can put up the same kind of numbers again, I'd say he's clearly the favorite.

Brohm needs to step it up, and he'll have to do so without either Kolby Smith or Michael Bush and in a new offense. I don't think Brennan's stock can get a whole lot higher than it was this offseason, and I'd be suprised if he can even match his numbers from last year.

edit - Ah, I misunderstood the question. In regards to who I think is the best, I think that if Brohm can put it all together he would be my pick. I'm pretty taken with Woodson at the moment though.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-03-2007, 07:33 PM
Keller's stock will sky rocket.
But when its all said and done I think Woodson will be the first QB taken.
Id take Colt Brennan over all of them though.Hes not a better prospect but I like him better.

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 07:37 PM
If Woodson can put up the same kind of numbers again, I'd say he's clearly the favorite.

Brohm needs to step it up, and he'll have to do so without either Kolby Smith or Michael Bush and in a new offense. I don't think Brennan's stock can get a whole lot higher than it was this offseason, and I'd be suprised if he can even match his numbers from last year.

edit - Ah, I misunderstood the question. In regards to who I think is the best, I think that if Brohm can put it all together he would be my pick. I'm pretty taken with Woodson at the moment though.



I'm REAL impressed with Woodson myself. Like Kellen Clemens did, he's elevating a subpar team in a tough conference beyond where their talent level should put them. However, the more I read up on it, and the more I research, the more I love Matt Ryan. He just has that feeling of "will be great in the NFL" whenever I watch him. It was a hard choice, but I went with Ryan over Woodson myself.

ElectricEye
05-03-2007, 07:40 PM
I don't feel like doing objective analysis right now with the draft just passed...but as for guys I like..
I like Brohm. I don't think he's an elite prospect, but I think he's probably the best guy out there next year.
Andre Woodson is the guy everyone is looking at to have a huge season and rise up. He has a good chance to do just that, but I would like to see a big win for him...but physically he has everything and he was very productive last year.
My homer pick is Matt Ryan. I really like the kid. Boston College has been a very good program for what seems like forever with our good line play. Ryan is probably the best quarterback we've had here since Flutie. Good live arm, great size, and very accurate. I would like to see some more touchdowns out of him this year, but he has a good chance at the first round.

Play ball
05-03-2007, 07:42 PM
Keller's stock will sky rocket.
But when its all said and done I think Woodson will be the first QB taken.
Id take Colt Brennan over all of them though.Hes not a better prospect but I like him better.

I have my doubts will Keller. His demotion at ASU wasn't entirely due to this on field play.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-03-2007, 07:47 PM
I'm REAL impressed with Woodson myself. Like Kellen Clemens did, he's elevating a subpar team in a tough conference beyond where their talent level should put them.Is that why the only hard team that Oregon beat in 05 while Clemens was QB was ASU.

gbpackers0065
05-03-2007, 07:47 PM
i think when the first team is on the clock, its woodson

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 07:56 PM
Is that why the only hard team that Oregon beat in 05 while Clemens was QB was ASU.


First off, he beat Fresno State, who was ranked.

2nd, you can't blame him for being injured, which is the only reason he wasn't a round 1 QB. And yes I was high on him before he was a Jet.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-03-2007, 08:01 PM
First off, he beat Fresno State, who was ranked.

2nd, you can't blame him for being injured, which is the only reason he wasn't a round 1 QB. And yes I was high on him before he was a Jet.
the same Fresno team that lost to Tulsa,Nevada and Louisiana Tech.

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 08:06 PM
the same Fresno team that lost to Tulsa,Nevada and Louisiana Tech.

He didn't get a shot to beat anyone else ranked. He beat 2 out of the 3 ranked teams he played, and the one he lost to was Southern Cal, and you know he had no shot with that staff agains Bush, Leinart, and crew. You could have given Oregon Carson Palmer and they would have still lost that game.



And why are we even having this argument? I was just saying that he elevated a trash team. Which he did. which Andre Woodson is doing. Which Jay Cutler did. Etc. I like QB's who elevate trash teams. They don't have to go one a tear and win a BCS bowl game. Just elevate their surroundings.

bored of education
05-03-2007, 08:08 PM
Woodson's performance in the Music city Bowl WOWed me.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-03-2007, 08:11 PM
Since when was Oregon ever a trash team their easily one of the best in the Pac Ten.They get plenty of talent to beat teams like Cal,ASU,and UCLA.THe only team they are very likely to lose to is USC.

RaiderNation
05-03-2007, 08:12 PM
JDB,Woodson,Brohm

San Diego Chicken
05-03-2007, 08:48 PM
It's Brohm. I know everyone will spend the next 11 months trying to find ways to criticize him and annoint some other player, but Brohm is a prototypical Air Coryell passer that has amazing accuracy on his deep balls and intermediate to deep passes.

eaglesfan_45
05-03-2007, 09:02 PM
Colt Brennan or John David Booty is who I think are going to be better quarter backs than Brian Brohm Colt had 50+ touchdowns this season and how could you fail with a last name like Booty?

etk
05-03-2007, 09:04 PM
A lot of solid names on that list, but Brohm is the clear-cut leader. Ryan Perrilloux is a wild card IMO.

-black
05-03-2007, 09:06 PM
I sitll dont think Perriloux will start this year. Tho Im hearing he made great strides this spring

Grizzlegom
05-03-2007, 09:10 PM
i think john david booty will be the best, if for no other reason than his name is booty.

princefielder28
05-03-2007, 09:14 PM
I've always been high on Brohm; he's my pick

dRaFtDoRk
05-03-2007, 09:16 PM
Right now its defenitly Brian Brohm, but I think Andre Woodson is going to wow some scouts and could rise all the way up by draft day. His physical attributes are just a hair shy than JaMarcus Russell, so if he can prove to be a consistent all year, then he might be the best ranked QB, he won't be taken first though.

ChiFan24
05-03-2007, 09:18 PM
1. Brohm
2. Woodson
3. Brennan
4. Ainge
5. Ryan

PalmerToCJ
05-03-2007, 09:27 PM
Woodson is the man.

I see Brohm's stock slipping, Brennans not gaining and I don't think Henne or Ainge take big steps. IMO it'll come down to Booty and Woodson.

-black
05-03-2007, 09:32 PM
you see Brohms stock falling....why?

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 09:33 PM
It's Brohm. I know everyone will spend the next 11 months trying to find ways to criticize him and annoint some other player, but Brohm is a prototypical Air Coryell passer that has amazing accuracy on his deep balls and intermediate to deep passes.

I disagree. I think Brohm benefits too much from having the most talented offense in a very very defensively weak offense. Mario Urrutia and Hank Williams are the best WR duo in the Big East, and having Michael Bush / Kolby Smith (and even George Stripling) behind him packed a powerful punch. Especially in that weak Big East.

If Brohm had had the season he had in the SEC, against real teams, I would have no doubts about him. But dominating the JV team doesn't make you the best guy on the varsity roster.

PalmerToCJ
05-03-2007, 09:35 PM
you see Brohms stock falling....why?

The new coaching staff makes me weary. I think when all is said and done he'll be the 3rd QB off the board. Maybe I shouldn't have worded it that I think his stock will slip, just that I feel others (Woodson/Booty) could surpass him.

P-L
05-03-2007, 09:37 PM
I'm going to have to go with Andre Woodson on this one. I've been saying that Brohm is overrated since the middle of last year.

-black
05-03-2007, 09:38 PM
I disagree. I think Brohm benefits too much from having the most talented offense in a very very defensively weak offense. Mario Urrutia and Hank Williams are the best WR duo in the Big East, and having Michael Bush / Kolby Smith (and even George Stripling) behind him packed a powerful punch. Especially in that weak Big East.

If Brohm had had the season he had in the SEC, against real teams, I would have no doubts about him. But dominating the JV team doesn't make you the best guy on the varsity roster.

who?.......................

Michigan
05-03-2007, 09:39 PM
surprised Henne hasn't been mentioned yet. i know alot of guys don't like him on this board, but his physical tools should put him towards the top of the list.

P-L
05-03-2007, 09:42 PM
who?.......................

I think he meant Urrutia and Harry Douglas. They are one of the top receiving tandems in college football.

etk
05-03-2007, 09:43 PM
surprised Henne hasn't been mentioned yet. i know alot of guys don't like him on this board, but his physical tools should put him towards the top of the list.

In that case, Kyle Wright should win this thing. He has all the physical tools on the planet, but who really cares?

I'm surprised there haven't been any votes for "Saviour Lee"......chuckle

-black
05-03-2007, 09:46 PM
Cant wait to see what the haters have to say about Brohm after he shuts them up. Only on message boards will they critique a player for playing his scheduel and choosing his school. He had offers from every program, and IMO WOULD HAVE beaten out Brady Quinn for the job had he went to Notre Dame....prolly best he didnt tho, he would be hated on even more than he is now.

Soooo.....im guessing every QB has to play in the SEC before they can be considered a good QB.....smh its been 2 weeks I have endured this Brohm hating on here, and I still have yet to see a good arguement for why he is overated or wont be a good QB. All I seem to see is people not liking to go with a popular choice

-black
05-03-2007, 09:52 PM
I think he meant Urrutia and Harry Douglas. They are one of the top receiving tandems in college football.

Harry Douglas is indeed one of the most underated receivers in the country. Much more consistent than Urrutia. But exactly how is this a critque to Brohm? what is your beef with Brohm, break him down and why he is overated? VERY interested

are you and him implying that Kolby Smith, Urrutia, and Harry make Brohm look better than what he is?

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 09:52 PM
I think he meant Urrutia and Harry Douglas. They are one of the top receiving tandems in college football.

Damn it! I don't know why I said Hank Williams..... lol

-black
05-03-2007, 09:54 PM
In that case, Kyle Wright should win this thing. He has all the physical tools on the planet, but who really cares?

I'm surprised there haven't been any votes for "Saviour Lee"......chuckle

OUR SAVIOR!

future number 1 overall pick

mix of Jamrcus Russell, Vince Young, and Daunte Cullpeper!!!!


:)


http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q243/turkblack/Xlee-1.jpg

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 09:56 PM
Harry Douglas is indeed one of the most underated receivers in the country. Much more consistent than Urrutia. But exactly how is this a critque to Brohm? what is your beef with Brohm, break him down and why he is overated? VERY interested

are you and him implying that Kolby Smith, Urrutia, and Harry make Brohm look better than what he is?

I'm saying a good QB had the best set of weapons in his entire conference, which just happens to have the most terrible defenses possible. You don't think all these factors might make his numbers a tad inflated?

-black
05-03-2007, 10:00 PM
I'm saying a good QB had the best set of weapons in his entire conference, which just happens to have the most terrible defenses possible. You don't think all these factors might make his numbers a tad inflated?

well I dont kno about you, but I dont judge QB's off stats and ESPN Highlights. I actually watch them closely from week to week. Season to season, pass attempt to pass attempt. And I judge my feelings on Brohm from that. I could care less what his stats are (inflated or grounded). Just watch him play, and you see the QB I see.

Non_Sequitur
05-03-2007, 10:06 PM
well I dont kno about you, but I dont judge QB's off stats and ESPN Highlights. I actually watch them closely from week to week. Season to season, pass attempt to pass attempt. And I judge my feelings on Brohm from that. I could care less what his stats are (inflated or grounded). Just watch him play, and you see the QB I see.


I have watched him play, I'm not going to pretend I saw all his games, but I saw 3. And a lot of the completions he made weren't amazing passes. They were slightly off target passes to wide open WR's.

draftguru151
05-03-2007, 10:11 PM
Cant wait to see what the haters have to say about Brohm after he shuts them up. Only on message boards will they critique a player for playing his scheduel and choosing his school. He had offers from every program, and IMO WOULD HAVE beaten out Brady Quinn for the job had he went to Notre Dame....prolly best he didnt tho, he would be hated on even more than he is now.

Soooo.....im guessing every QB has to play in the SEC before they can be considered a good QB.....smh its been 2 weeks I have endured this Brohm hating on here, and I still have yet to see a good arguement for why he is overated or wont be a good QB. All I seem to see is people not liking to go with a popular choice

I think the people that actually don't like Brohm and know what they are talking about have beef with him other than the the other players on his team and the conference he is in. Brohm has a lot of questions to answer next year.

Xonraider
05-03-2007, 10:16 PM
Brohm is probably the one that is considered the ''safest'' pick this year.. while Brennan and Woodson may take the ''boom/bust'' role.

DJohnson56
05-03-2007, 10:17 PM
Keller is a stud and will be a top ten pick......Callahan has him lined up to have a monster year plus the fact that he is such a physical specimen. But if I had to pick the best QB I would say Brennan.

-black
05-03-2007, 10:19 PM
he has four questions to answer for me

1. How will he perform without Petrino (he still has his bro as QB coach which helps)

2. Can he stay healthy for an entire season

3. How will he handle the pressure of being everyone preseason number 1 QB

4. Can he have that breakout statistical year

im not sitting here acting as if he is flawless or perfect. EVERY prospect in the entire country has questions to answer. But Brohm is as good as a QB as you will find next year and IMO I like his skill and intagibles better than Quinn and Jamarcus. IMO will have a Carlson Palmer type impact in the NFL. Im really ready to see him play this year though. No matter what, he will find a way to get hated on (ala Quinn/Manning)

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 10:28 PM
My issue with Brohm is simply that he has gobs of hype and in terms of on the field performance he has done little to deserve it. He has all the talent to be an elite prospect, but I get the sense he is riding the hype from his recruitment rather than from how he has actually performed in college.

He has all the ability to be the 1st overall pick though.

porter20
05-03-2007, 10:30 PM
Key games include:

Louisville vs Kentucky (Brohm vs Woodon - this head-to-head matchup will be a big factor for the #1 QB much like ND vs LSU last year)

USC vs Nebraska (Keller vs JD Booty should be very interesting....especially Keller's stock if Nebraska pulls the upset. )

-black
05-03-2007, 10:33 PM
he has performed outstanding in college. Injuries have kept him from putting up those monster final season numbers. But when healthy, he has averaged like 280 yards passing and over 60%.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 10:36 PM
he has performed outstanding in college. Injuries have kept him from putting up those monster final season numbers. But when healthy, he has averaged like 280 yards passing and over 60%.

But in the Big East, those number don't scream "elite quarterback", especially not in the offense Brohm was functioning in.

-black
05-03-2007, 10:42 PM
wow, so i guess numbers are the underlining measuring stick to what is impressive and whats not. Forget the fact that Louisville actually was more of a balanced run/pass team than people would like to give them credit for.

-black
05-03-2007, 10:43 PM
gurenteed

Brohm could throw for 350 yards a game and 5 TD's and that would be a critique also with people saying "ewww, he padded his stats against inferrior Big East teams. He is a system QB". Seems to me like he cant win no matter what

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 10:44 PM
wow, so i guess numbers are the underlining measuring stick to what is impressive and whats not. Forget the fact that Louisville actually was more of a balanced run/pass team than people would like to give them credit for.

No, but elite production is the underlying measuring stick for crowning elite quarterback prospects.

Brohm could throw for 350 yards a game and 5 TD's and that would be a critique also with people saying "ewww, he padded his stats against inferrior Big East teams. He is a system QB". Seems to me like he cant win no matter what

If he did that I would shut up entirely. I'm not expecting Brohm to go above and beyond the situation he is presented with, nor are my expectations unrealistic. For me to consider Brohm an elite quarterback prospect, I'd like to see him produce like one.

I don't think that's asking too much.

-black
05-03-2007, 10:47 PM
no.....actually intagibles are by far more important

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 10:49 PM
no.....actually intagibles are by far more important

Since they're intangible, how do you expect to analyze them?

Production is step 1. If a player cannot produce, all his physical skills and intangibles are pointless. Production is obviously not the most important step (or Jason White would be an NFL starter), but it has to be the first step.

Especially for a player we're talking about going #1 overall.

-black
05-03-2007, 10:51 PM
so your saying Brohm hasnt produced? or he just hasnt produced video game numbers...which one?

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 10:56 PM
so your saying Brohm hasnt produced? or he just hasnt produced video game numbers...which one?

To this date, Brohm has not produced like a top 10 pick quarterback should.

-black
05-03-2007, 11:00 PM
3,000 yards while missing games due to injury.

the first few games were the first games back from his ACL inuury. The others were the first few games back from breaking a finger.

seems like great production to me (despite having a physical and mental learning curve)

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 11:02 PM
3,000 yards while missing games due to injury.

the first few games were the first games back from his ACL inuury. The others were the first few games back from breaking a finger.

seems like great production to me (despite having a physical and mental learning curve)

I really could care less about Brohm's setbacks, I need to see him have big games against big teams and I need to see him consistently dominate. In the NFL, you don't get points for trying hard.

simms2clayton
05-03-2007, 11:02 PM
It's Brohm. I know everyone will spend the next 11 months trying to find ways to criticize him and annoint some other player, but Brohm is a prototypical Air Coryell passer that has amazing accuracy on his deep balls and intermediate to deep passes.

So does Dre'.

Andre has all of Brohm's tools and he has a whole lot less talent around him. The only reason we talk about Brohm is because he is on ESPN every Thursday playing a nobody in the Big LEast.

-black
05-03-2007, 11:06 PM
I really could care less about Brohm's setbacks, I need to see him have big games against big teams and I need to see him consistently dominate. In the NFL, you don't get points for trying hard.

didnt seem to affect your boy Jamarcus Russell.......

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 11:08 PM
didnt seem to affect your boy Jamarcus Russell.......

Russell put together a better year than Brohm has managed against drastically better competition. He was fairly consistent and came up big both in the SEC Championship and in the Sugar Bowl.

:confused:

simms2clayton
05-03-2007, 11:10 PM
Brohm is probably the one that is considered the ''safest'' pick this year.. while Brennan and Woodson may take the ''boom/bust'' role.

What about Woodson would make him boom/bust?

He has gotten a lot better reading defenses and he is great at audibles at the LOS. Usually fans get pissed he doesn't hike it and he changes a few plays, but they are usually for a 4 down gain on an inside running play which is pretty rare for our team lol

San Diego Chicken
05-03-2007, 11:11 PM
I disagree. I think Brohm benefits too much from having the most talented offense in a very very defensively weak offense. Mario Urrutia and Hank Williams are the best WR duo in the Big East, and having Michael Bush / Kolby Smith (and even George Stripling) behind him packed a powerful punch. Especially in that weak Big East.

If Brohm had had the season he had in the SEC, against real teams, I would have no doubts about him. But dominating the JV team doesn't make you the best guy on the varsity roster.

Statistically, the Big East was the 2nd best conference in the nation last year. There was a conference thread not too long ago, and the numbers juxtaposed, the Big East was 2nd only to the SEC in conference strength.

Not that any of that matters. It's about translatable skills to the NFL, not what conference you play in. That's about as big a joke as it gets. I'm sick of seeing SEC players get more kudos just because of the conference affiliation. After a certain point it becomes more hype than something tangible. It's a wonder anyone from any other conference even makes an impact in the NFL.

simms2clayton
05-03-2007, 11:13 PM
Keller is a stud and will be a top ten pick......Callahan has him lined up to have a monster year plus the fact that he is such a physical specimen. But if I had to pick the best QB I would say Brennan.

Keller has serious character issues and will be lucky to be a 2nd round pick.

-black
05-03-2007, 11:15 PM
Russell put together a better year than Brohm has managed against drastically better competition. He was fairly consistent and came up big both in the SEC Championship and in the Sugar Bowl.

:confused:

here comes the double standards.

most (especially on here) say the ND was the most overated team in the country and they had a God awful defense in which teams like UCLA and Michigan State abused for yardage. Then in his supposed "big games" against Florida/Auburn...........you get the point


so tell me how this fits

need to see him have big games against big teams and I need to see him consistently dominate

so did he have big games against big time teams and did he consistently dominate? he still went number 1 right?

and Jamarcus didnt play in the SEC Championship game (and when he did in 2005) he threw for 120 yards and threw 0 TD's and 1 INT

Brohm was having a comparable year to Jamarcus but he got injured

Paranoidmoonduck
05-03-2007, 11:23 PM
Brohm went three games before getting injured, and he failed to throw more than 1 touchdown in each of them. Like I said before, Brohm does not have the overwhelming talent of a Russell. He doesn't have the production of Quinn.

For all I know he could put Colt Brennan's last season to shame this year, and put up enough numbers for 2 Heismans. However, at this point, I think he is undeserving of the hype he receives.

-black
05-03-2007, 11:27 PM
Brohm went three games before getting injured, and he failed to throw more than 1 touchdown in each of them. Like I said before, Brohm does not have the overwhelming talent of a Russell. He doesn't have the production of Quinn.

For all I know he could put Colt Brennan's last season to shame this year, and put up enough numbers for 2 Heismans. However, at this point, I think he is undeserving of the hype he receives.

so you admit, production isnt what made jamarcus number 1...but arm strrength? Brohm didnt have to throw a TD, if you watched the games he was leading them down to the 5 yard line, and the RB ran it in for a TD. Stop looking at the ESN state line buddy for everything.

he desevres the hype of the best QB going into this system, certaintly more than Woodson....

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 12:02 AM
so you admit, production isnt what made jamarcus number 1...but arm strrength? Brohm didnt have to throw a TD, if you watched the games he was leading them down to the 5 yard line, and the RB ran it in for a TD. Stop looking at the ESN state line buddy for everything.

he desevres the hype of the best QB going into this system, certaintly more than Woodson....


Stop over simplifying other peoples' arguments.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-04-2007, 12:30 AM
Stop over simplifying other peoples' arguments.

Don't worry about it.

Black is going to believe what he wants to believe about Brohm. I'm not even sure he's wrong about how good the kid is, I just don't think he deserves the hype he's gotten so far.

We disagree on this and I'm fine with leaving it at that. It isn't worth getting hot under the collar for.

-black
05-04-2007, 12:31 AM
im not hot or bothered (no ****)......lol

have no problem agreeing to disagree. The fact is if Brohm doesnt deserve to be mentioned as the top QB, neither does Woodson...

Paranoidmoonduck
05-04-2007, 12:36 AM
have no problem agreeing to disagree. The fact is if Brohm doesnt deserve to be mentioned as the top QB, neither does Woodson...

Well, I'd say that no one has clearly established themselves as of yet. I don't think Brennan or Henne are going to end up at the top. Ryan stands a solid chance.

I think Woodson has the momentum though. You put up those kind of numbers in the SEC, people take notice. You do it two years in a row, and people take you very high in the draft.

-black
05-04-2007, 12:38 AM
you do what Brohm has done, get to a BCS bowl, and dont get injured. You get taken high in the draft :)

Paranoidmoonduck
05-04-2007, 12:39 AM
you do what Brohm has done, get to a BCS bowl, and dont get injured. You get taken high in the draft :)

Hell, lots of college quarterbacks have done that. Once again, I'm not saying Brohm won't be the next big thing since Jesus invented sliced bread. I'm just saying that, to date, he hasn't really been all that impressive.

P-L
05-04-2007, 12:40 AM
Anyone who doesn't think Brian Brohm in the clear cut #1 QB next year is a hater. Please, come up with a decent argument or stop talking. Sorry, but I can't take someone seriously when they call people haters for not being in love with their favorite prospects.

-black
05-04-2007, 12:42 AM
oh, you dont have to be in love with them. In fact, I could care LESS who you like as a prospect. But saying "he hasnt been all that impressive" is a hater comment.....

P-L
05-04-2007, 12:47 AM
He has been impressive, but not as impressive as his hype would lead one to believe. I understand everyone has different opinions, but I have never seen anything out of Brohm that has made me stop and say, "Wow. He could be better than Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell." I gave you my reasoning for why I thought Brohm wasn't as good as his hype suggested. It was a 4-5 sentance blurb in another thread. You never responded to it. I can't remember which thread it was in, but feel free to look it up. I have no problem with you having an opinion. I have a problem with people who accuse other people of hating just because they don't share opinions.

-black
05-04-2007, 12:48 AM
and this isnt comment directly from this thread...but from threads the past week

have heard

"is a system QB"
"is overated"
"Will be a bust"
"should not be a 1st round pick"

and ect. Those comments have fueled my defense for Brohm. I dont care if you like a QB better, but the above quoted comments, plus many others are rediculous and sound like the hate from Quinn is shifting to Brohm. Anyone with a valid critique, fine. But the fan club of "he just doesnt have that it, i dont know what it is, but he just seems overated"....no

Paranoidmoonduck
05-04-2007, 12:49 AM
I think that we all get a little tired of homerism around this time of year (not referring to you Black, just in general), when these forums get infested with people just dying to pimp their favorite prospects.

It makes everyone, especially myself, very edgy.

edit -

Black, you do realize I've never said any of those things about Brohm, correct? I just want to make sure, because my only issue is that I perceive the general public opinion of him is mainly based on the fact that he's been talked about since before playing a snap of college football, rather than the actual football he's played.

P-L
05-04-2007, 12:50 AM
I'm sorry. I can understand your defense against comments like that. I personally just kind of skim over those and ignore those. My opinion is that if someone can't add more to an argument then that they aren't worth arguing with.

-black
05-04-2007, 12:53 AM
I think that we all get a little tired of homerism around this time of year (not referring to you Black, just in general), when these forums get infested with people just dying to pimp their favorite prospects.

It makes everyone, especially myself, very edgy.

edit -

Black, you do realize I've never said any of those things about Brohm, correct? I just want to make sure, because my only issue is that I perceive the general public opinion of him is mainly based on the fact that he's been talked about since before playing a snap of college football, rather than the actual football he's played.


yes I do, I guess my defense for him is covering any and everybody disagreeing with me lol....sorry

Paranoidmoonduck
05-04-2007, 12:55 AM
yes I do, I guess my defense for him is covering any and everybody disagreeing with me lol....sorry

No worries dude, it happens. With any luck both Brohm and Woodson will have amazing years and we'll reconvene back here in 11 months to argue about who deserves to go first.

;)

BengalsPwn
05-04-2007, 01:19 AM
I'm saying a good QB had the best set of weapons in his entire conference, which just happens to have the most terrible defenses possible. You don't think all these factors might make his numbers a tad inflated?

You could make that comment about every QB that has been from USC he past years. The pac-10 does not have better defenses than the big east and Brohm doesn't have more weapons than JDB. JDB has just about every 5 star RB prospect in his backfield from the past 2 years and I don't hear the haters on him. He did throw that horrible pass in the 2OT that got batted against OSU, when he was throwing to the tallest guy on the field. Physically Woodson is the best prospect, but im tired of him getting this Cutler treatment, he hasn't really beaten anybody and hes not polished at all. His decision making is a little better as he now knows how to throw the ball away, but hes far from being the prospect Brohm is.

geaux tigers
05-04-2007, 01:31 AM
Could a lot of Brohm's success be the system? When he got hurt, Cantwell came in for about 2.5 games. Numbers real close to Brohms first 2.5 games.

Cantwell 45/70 700yds 5td/2int
Brohm 45/74 742 3td/1int

I dont watch too much of Louisville, so beats me. I did see that pick 6 vs Rutgers.

xUFxGATORxUFx
05-04-2007, 08:05 AM
I gotta go with Colt, He has been lighting it up

jnew76
05-04-2007, 08:42 AM
Matt Ryan is my pick. I think his skills are very underrated. I love his leadership ability and accuracy with nice zip. I don't think he will be the first QB taken, but he could easily figure into round one. He is my favorite pro-style prospect.

I think the best #'s this year outside of Colt Brennan will be put up by Chase Daniel, but he is only a junior and has height issues.

ricky bobby
05-04-2007, 09:43 AM
Nate Longshore is my favorte college QB. 6'5" 240 pound QB out of Cal. Great character, great leader, one of the most charismatic players i've ever seen. At this point, I don't think that he's the best QB coming out, but I have a feeling that he will have a huge season, and maybe compete for the Heisman. I know that's a pretty bold prediction.

Play ball
05-04-2007, 12:00 PM
Keller has serious character issues and will be lucky to be a 2nd round pick.

Correct...

etk
05-04-2007, 01:29 PM
Could a lot of Brohm's success be the system? When he got hurt, Cantwell came in for about 2.5 games. Numbers real close to Brohms first 2.5 games.

Cantwell 45/70 700yds 5td/2int
Brohm 45/74 742 3td/1int

I dont watch too much of Louisville, so beats me. I did see that pick 6 vs Rutgers.

When Lefors got injured as a Senior, Brohm stepped in and played well too. It doesn't mean both aren't talented.

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 01:31 PM
Anyone who doesn't think Brian Brohm in the clear cut #1 QB next year is a hater.

Wow, such an insulting and bias argument from a head moderator.


JK I kid! I kid!

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 01:34 PM
You could make that comment about every QB that has been from USC he past years. The pac-10 does not have better defenses than the big east and Brohm doesn't have more weapons than JDB. JDB has just about every 5 star RB prospect in his backfield from the past 2 years and I don't hear the haters on him. He did throw that horrible pass in the 2OT that got batted against OSU, when he was throwing to the tallest guy on the field. Physically Woodson is the best prospect, but im tired of him getting this Cutler treatment, he hasn't really beaten anybody and hes not polished at all. His decision making is a little better as he now knows how to throw the ball away, but hes far from being the prospect Brohm is.


I disagree with the premise of your argument. I would take Cal.... heck, I'd take Oregon State, over any team in the Big East on the defensive side of the ball.

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 01:37 PM
Nate Longshore is my favorte college QB. 6'5" 240 pound QB out of Cal. Great character, great leader, one of the most charismatic players i've ever seen. At this point, I don't think that he's the best QB coming out, but I have a feeling that he will have a huge season, and maybe compete for the Heisman. I know that's a pretty bold prediction.



I'm pretty sure he's a Junior, and aside from him absolutely destroying the competition this year, it'd be suicide to come out early with this QB class.

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 01:41 PM
and this isnt comment directly from this thread...but from threads the past week

have heard

"is a system QB"
"is overated"
"Will be a bust"
"should not be a 1st round pick"

and ect. Those comments have fueled my defense for Brohm. I dont care if you like a QB better, but the above quoted comments, plus many others are rediculous and sound like the hate from Quinn is shifting to Brohm. Anyone with a valid critique, fine. But the fan club of "he just doesnt have that it, i dont know what it is, but he just seems overated"....no



You seemed to have plenty of problems with my perfectly valid "he plays against cupcake defenses with a superior offense" argument.

I've also said that I don't think he's bad, his numbers and hype are just inflated and higher than they should be.






Sorry about the multiple posts all.

-black
05-04-2007, 01:52 PM
I def have pretty problems with that arguement

as should Roethisberger, McNabb, Steve Young, and any Pac 10 QB. But then again, you wouldnt understand that

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 02:26 PM
I def have pretty problems with that arguement

as should Roethisberger, McNabb, Steve Young, and any Pac 10 QB. But then again, you wouldnt understand that



Lol, how you don't have tons of neg rep is beyond me.

-black
05-04-2007, 02:30 PM
because I know what im talking about

how does production for McNabb sound in the supposed "cupcake Big East"

Miami was on Probation, and not making bowl games

Virginia Tech was basically what West Virginia is now. Was up and coming but not a power

in fact, the Big East now is better than the teams fielded in 94-98. McNabb still went 2 overall (while also playing in a "system" option offense)

Steve Young played for BYU, the ultimate "system" palace for QB's and video game numbers. What about Brett Favre at Southern Miss? Big Ben dominating the Mac conference?

try again loser

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 03:28 PM
because I know what im talking about

how does production for McNabb sound in the supposed "cupcake Big East"

Miami was on Probation, and not making bowl games

Virginia Tech was basically what West Virginia is now. Was up and coming but not a power

in fact, the Big East now is better than the teams fielded in 94-98. McNabb still went 2 overall (while also playing in a "system" option offense)

Steve Young played for BYU, the ultimate "system" palace for QB's and video game numbers. What about Brett Favre at Southern Miss? Big Ben dominating the Mac conference?

try again loser


Loser? Lol. You seriously need to stop insulting people.

And I never said that players couldn't come from small conference teams. Jerry Rice came from Mississippi Valley State after all. And I've said he's a good QB, which he is. But for you to think his numbers aren't inflated from playing against smaller, slower athletes, then you are sadly mistaken.

You can keep throwing out good players from schools that traditionally don't produce them, such as Pennington and Moss from Marshall, or you can come to the realization that I am right, that his numbers are a little inflated but that he's still a good QB prospect.

Have a nice day.

etk
05-04-2007, 03:30 PM
Loser? Lol. You seriously need to stop insulting people.

And I never said that players couldn't come from small conference teams. Jerry Rice came from Mississippi Valley State after all. And I've said he's a good QB, which he is. But for you to think his numbers aren't inflated from playing against smaller, slower athletes, then you are sadly mistaken.

You can keep throwing out good players from schools that traditionally don't produce them, such as Pennington and Moss from Marshall, or you can come to the realization that I am right, that his numbers are a little inflated but that he's still a good QB prospect.

Have a nice day.

So every QB with a good supporting cast has inflated numbers? I assume you've never seen an elite QB prospect in your lifetime then, because all great QBs with great production have a good supporting cast.

fenikz
05-04-2007, 04:14 PM
i think it's a toss up in Kentucky, between Brohmn & Dre

-black
05-04-2007, 04:21 PM
Loser? Lol. You seriously need to stop insulting people.

And I never said that players couldn't come from small conference teams. Jerry Rice came from Mississippi Valley State after all. And I've said he's a good QB, which he is. But for you to think his numbers aren't inflated from playing against smaller, slower athletes, then you are sadly mistaken.

You can keep throwing out good players from schools that traditionally don't produce them, such as Pennington and Moss from Marshall, or you can come to the realization that I am right, that his numbers are a little inflated but that he's still a good QB prospect.

Have a nice day.

no, your making it seem like Brohm's suppporting players MAKE HIM. Claiming that Bush/Kolby and Haryy/Urrutia are the reason Brohm has good numbers (aside from a so called "crappy conference"). Thats rediculous and does not fly. If anything Brohm makes those two receivers better. Brohm was highly touted and was Brian Brohm before he got to Kentucky. Who was Mari Urrutia and Harry Douglas?

My statements (from a few pages ago still stands)

Brohm is a great QB with a very good supporting cast. But his system and his supporting cast does not MAKE him what he is now (if they do, then why wasnt it the same for Troy Smith, Jamarcus Russell, ect, ect). You ant crituqie Brohm for playing his scheduel. According to some of you he minds well not even play the season becuz no matter what he cant win in ur eyes since he plays in the Big East

Acreboy
05-04-2007, 04:28 PM
Nate Longshore is my favorte college QB. 6'5" 240 pound QB out of Cal. Great character, great leader, one of the most charismatic players i've ever seen. At this point, I don't think that he's the best QB coming out, but I have a feeling that he will have a huge season, and maybe compete for the Heisman. I know that's a pretty bold prediction.Very inconsistent

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 05:10 PM
So every QB with a good supporting cast has inflated numbers? I assume you've never seen an elite QB prospect in your lifetime then, because all great QBs with great production have a good supporting cast.

Don't oversimplify my statement. Every QB with a good supporting cast whilst playing almost exclusively vs defensively inferior teams has inflated numbers.

Only Elite QB I have seen live in college is Carson Plamer. But that's because I don't classify Leinart, Clemens, Rodgers, McPherson, or Rivers as elite. Rivers sure was close though.....

etk
05-04-2007, 05:16 PM
Only Elite QB I have seen live in college is Carson Plamer. But that's because I don't classify Leinart, Clemens, Rodgers, McPherson, or Rivers as elite. Rivers sure was close though.....

So basically you just admitted that you have minimal experience watching live college football. Makes a lot of sense, since your only argument towards Brohm is that "he played weak defenses", even though that is not entriely the case and if you really did watch extensive action of Brohm you would know that he would succeed in any offense against any defense. He has all the tools and intangibles.

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 05:18 PM
no, your making it seem like Brohm's suppporting players MAKE HIM. Claiming that Bush/Kolby and Haryy/Urrutia are the reason Brohm has good numbers (aside from a so called "crappy conference"). Thats rediculous and does not fly. If anything Brohm makes those two receivers better. Brohm was highly touted and was Brian Brohm before he got to Kentucky. Who was Mari Urrutia and Harry Douglas?

My statements (from a few pages ago still stands)

Brohm is a great QB with a very good supporting cast. But his system and his supporting cast does not MAKE him what he is now (if they do, then why wasnt it the same for Troy Smith, Jamarcus Russell, ect, ect). You ant crituqie Brohm for playing his scheduel. According to some of you he minds well not even play the season becuz no matter what he cant win in ur eyes since he plays in the Big East

I never said they "MAKE HIM." In fact, I've maintained all along that he is a good QB. You are misrepresenting my case. The only thing I don't understand is what exactly you are attempting to prove. That Brohm is better than Woodson and Ryan (the only guys I like above him)? Well if that's your point, then you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree, and that's my opinion. If you are, instead, trying to persuade me into believing he is better than Woodson and Ryan, you are never going to be able to; especially not with redundant and insulting posts. The only 3 people who can change my opinion on the way they rank are Ryan, Woodson, and Brohm.

So what exactly is your objective?


So basically you just admitted that you have minimal experience watching live college football. Makes a lot of sense, since your only argument towards Brohm is that "he played weak defenses", even though that is not entriely the case and if you really did watch extensive action of Brohm you would know that he would succeed in any offense against any defense. He has all the tools and intangibles.

I'm confused. Have I been saying he won't succeed at the pro level? Have I been arguing "against" Brohm? Or have I been saying he's a good QB, I just like a couple of other QB's better?

etk
05-04-2007, 05:23 PM
I'm confused. Have I been saying he won't succeed at the pro level? Have I been arguing "against" Brohm? Or have I been saying he's a good QB, I just like a couple of other QB's better?

What makes the other QBs better? I'm seeing the Jay Cutler syndrome all over again, guys just can't accept that the highest-rated and most well-known player at his position is the best.

Staubach12
05-04-2007, 05:30 PM
These are my rankings as of now.

1.Brian Brohm
2.Colt Brennan
3.Andre Woodson
4.John David Booty
5.Erik Ainge
6.Chad Henne
7.Matt Ryan
8.Sam Keller
9.Matt Flynn

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 05:33 PM
What makes the other QBs better? I'm seeing the Jay Cutler syndrome all over again, guys just can't accept that the highest-rated and most well-known player at his position is the best.

I've already stated that I really like Woodson because he has improved his surroundings in a hostile environment like Jay Cutler did.

I like Ryan because he has excelled in a tough ACC. He was good from the moment he stepped onto the field in a legit conference and has improved.



All 3 QB's have the tools to succeed on the next level. Brohm has no monopoly on having the tools.

ironman4579
05-04-2007, 05:40 PM
As a Michigan fan, I'd love to say Henne, but I just couldn't. I had to go with Woodson on this one. As has already been said, I just love his tools, and how he's elevated his team.

SeanTaylorRIP
05-04-2007, 05:43 PM
I thought he would be a mid-late first rounder if he left this year, so I have to go Andre Woodson, Brohm is hurt by the Brady Quinn disorder, in that he is considered #1 by every media outlet for Heisman and #1 pick but he will make a steady decline.

geaux tigers
05-04-2007, 05:47 PM
Doesnt Louisville and Kentucky play again this yr? that'll be a good one. Brohm better hope he looks good this yr, or else he'll fall even faster than Quinn with all the other big name QB's coming out.

Non_Sequitur
05-04-2007, 05:53 PM
Doesnt Louisville and Kentucky play again this yr? that'll be a good one. Brohm better hope he looks good this yr, or else he'll fall even faster than Quinn with all the other big name QB's coming out.

It'll be the first and only time 75% of Football fans watch either Louisville or Kentucky.

ripdw27
05-04-2007, 07:20 PM
tyler donovan, wisconsin

-black
05-04-2007, 07:21 PM
I never said they "MAKE HIM." In fact, I've maintained all along that he is a good QB. You are misrepresenting my case. The only thing I don't understand is what exactly you are attempting to prove. That Brohm is better than Woodson and Ryan (the only guys I like above him)? Well if that's your point, then you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree, and that's my opinion. If you are, instead, trying to persuade me into believing he is better than Woodson and Ryan, you are never going to be able to; especially not with redundant and insulting posts. The only 3 people who can change my opinion on the way they rank are Ryan, Woodson, and Brohm.

So what exactly is your objective?


whats my objective? responding to this nonsense

I think Brohm benefits too much from having the most talented offense in a very very defensively weak offense. Mario Urrutia and Hank Williams are the best WR duo in the Big East, and having Michael Bush / Kolby Smith (and even George Stripling) behind him packed a powerful punch. Especially in that weak Big East.

If Brohm had had the season he had in the SEC, against real teams, I would have no doubts about him. But dominating the JV team doesn't make you the best guy on the varsity roster

I could care less who you have in order of rankings. I have ZERO problem with anyone liking a different QB better. But I will step in when you have to trash another QB for no reason in order to get your point across. So far you have brought zero anaylisis to the table. If your going to break down a QB, then do so. In another thread I spent 3 paragraphs talking about Brohms strengths and weaknesses. All you have done is say "he plays in the Big East, and his teamates make him have better stats than he should have" . I dont have any problem if someone critiques his mechanics, technique, footwork, or any other tangibles.intagibles. But dont sit and make a whole thread about what conference he plays in.

and then YOU insult ME talking about my rep and expect me not to lash back? (then again, maybe if you would not have repped me a few weeks ago maybe it wouldnt be high lol)

I'm NOT trying to convince anyone Brohm is better than anybody. Im defending him anytime someone comes in a thread trashing him with ignorant posts that are hater-based. I have no problem if someone wants to critique or say another player is better. But you do not have to degrade the next player to do so.

-black
05-04-2007, 07:33 PM
oh yeah, and everyone STOP saying Brohm is receiving his hype because of "inflatic statistics". Brohms statistics arent even overwelming to begin with. People are hyping him because of his smarts and intagibles. Who looks at Brohm's statistics and says "wow look at those numbers, he should be a top pick". Its funny, half of you arent even on the same page. One guy in here is saying his statistics arent impressive, and the other is saying he is getting hype because he is padding his stats. So which is it? Sounds like a double edged sword to me. If he has great numbers, then its against weak competition so who cares? if he has only solid numbers, then he isnt productive.......so he is basically screwd in a lose/lose situation right?

Stats is NOT what makes Brohm the consensus top QB going into the pre-season, its his intagibles and the way he plays the game.

Travis 24
05-05-2007, 09:35 AM
I'd usually say Brohm...Being he is my #1 rated QB...but I have Andre Woodson a VERY close #2...and I think he will be right there at the end.