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View Full Version : calvin johnson will not be the best rookie WR next year.


teneight
05-04-2007, 03:35 PM
that is all.

come back to me at the end on next season with some stats. im sure calvin johnson wont be the top rc WR.


seems to me like a lot of people were riding his sack before the draft. they even seem to call him a 'cant miss'. the best WR in 10 years...he was basically praised like he was GOD himself. lol @ predraft hype.

SFbear
05-04-2007, 03:36 PM
that is all.

come back to me at the end on next season with some stats. im sure calvin johnson wont be the top rc WR

Care to use an arguement?

teneight
05-04-2007, 03:38 PM
Care to use an arguement?




he is just very overhyped...especially after the combine with his overrated 40time.


40times... they should just basically stop running them. a lot of players fall and rise just because of the time...it makes me sick


it would be much better if they actually did drills with pads at the combine.

PoopSandwich
05-04-2007, 03:39 PM
he was basically praised like he was GOD himself.

He isn't? Liar.

OhioState
05-04-2007, 03:43 PM
who will be then? i see no reason why he won't be, he is by far the most talented

WMD
05-04-2007, 03:43 PM
Calvin Johnson was highly touted BEFORE the combine.. before this season, before last season.. Everyone knew what he was..

TheChampIsHere
05-04-2007, 03:44 PM
Umm Calvin Johnson had a stellar career at GT with Reggie Ball as his QB, has all the talent you can ask for, 6'5'', 240, great hands, incredible body control, physical, great leaping ability, can go across the middle, showed he has the straightline speed to beat CBs on go routes and get behind the secondary for the go route, has great character....He deserves the hype. Its not inconceivable that Dwayne Bowe or maybe a different WR could have a better rookie year than him but its ridiculous to go out and announce he wont be the best rookie wideout because he is obviously the best prospect.

Notredameleo
05-04-2007, 03:44 PM
Nice baseless argument, if it was even an argument at all? are you effin ********? Seriously....I agree 40 times can be overrated, but when a 6'5'' 240 lb. WIDE RECEIVER runs a 4.35 40, has a huge vertical and catches everyting near him, he isn't overhyped. Trust me, everything they say about him is true. He had 14 TD's last year with Reggie FRICKIN Ball at QB... Next time you want to make a pointless thread, think first. Is it a guaranteed that he will be the best Rookie WR next year, NO, but you could have made a better attempt of an argument other than saying that he is overhyped, because that is just a joke. THAT IS ALL!!!

etk
05-04-2007, 04:11 PM
I can see Dwayne Bowe outproducing him this year, but that's no knock on CJ. Even Mike Furrey outproduced Roy Williams in Martz's offense, so there's no telling how many passes CJ will see. He will easily lead the rookies and possibly the league in TD catches though. If he was in Tampa Bay this wouldn't even be a question, you could already mark him down in the HOF ;)

Edit: Your sig amuses me almost as much as your post.

Moses
05-04-2007, 05:01 PM
that is all.

come back to me at the end on next season with some stats. im sure calvin johnson wont be the top rc WR.


seems to me like a lot of people were riding his sack before the draft. they even seem to call him a 'cant miss'. the best WR in 10 years...he was basically praised like he was GOD himself. lol @ predraft hype.

Post of the year. I'm convinced.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-04-2007, 05:57 PM
I don't think Johnson will be the top statistical wideout this coming year. He's entering a rather anemic offense and has Williams and Furrey to compete with for catches.

That said, we've all known who Calvin Johnson was since before the 2006 draft, and I was calling him possibly the best wideout prospect even last summer.

SeanTaylorRIP
05-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Jon Kitna should again this year throw for over 4,000 yards so CJ should have atleast 1,000 of that.

bored of education
05-04-2007, 06:55 PM
Impact wise, not stats wise CJ is already the best rookie WR.

RaiderNation
05-04-2007, 07:05 PM
ya with kitna passing to him he wont. once thats changed well u know

ripdw27
05-04-2007, 07:19 PM
have you ever even seen a highligh vid of calvin johnson?? if you have then you kno what he can do with a not so good qb throwing to him imagine what he will do with the likes of kitna (an experienced qb) tossin him the ball... by far the best rookie wr, if not then who is big shooter?

Philliez01
05-04-2007, 08:07 PM
Hell, even if his production isn't on par with a Moss or even Colston; he should still make an impact strictly as a decoy. The fact is, Roy Williams was a pretty hot prospect a few years back and has been a good producer for the Lions. Calvin enters an offense with two good WRs so there is not as much pressure on him and Kitna will probably look like Montana after catching balls from Ball (no pun, well yes, pun intended).

PoopSandwich
05-04-2007, 08:10 PM
ya with kitna passing to him he wont. once thats changed well u know

Kitna isn't bad his o-line is bad, but look at Roy's number's last year...

You were a huge CJ pimp before the draft, and if im not mistaken Kitna went for 4000 yards last year, yet you don't think CJ will lead for rookies?

FilthyRich
05-04-2007, 08:10 PM
nah, lets not start copping pleas now. this dude is in a martz offense with a quarterback that threw for over 4,000 yards. if he doesn't have at least colston numbers he was overhtped. however, i feel he's going to have a tremendous season just based off the lesser talent he's played with his entire life. any idea if stanton will start this season/

Matthew Jones
05-04-2007, 08:12 PM
I don't think Johnson will be the top statistical wideout this coming year. He's entering a rather anemic offense and has Williams and Furrey to compete with for catches.

I agree with this completely. The best wide receiver for this year as far as rookies go in terms of production is going to be either Robert Meachem or Dwayne Jarrett, in my opinion. Both are likely to be rookie starters and will have the benefits of playing with solid wide receivers already. They play with Drew Brees and Jake Delhomme respectively - two solid quarterbacks, to say the least. Steve Smith and Marques Colston will draw attention off of them. I could see Jarrett producing like Keyshawn did last year - they're extremely similar players, for the same team. KJ caught 70-815-4 last year. I think Jarrett could catch around 60 passes for 11 or 12 YPC as well as grabbing even more touchdowns than Johnson.

etk
05-04-2007, 08:17 PM
I agree with this completely. The best wide receiver for this year as far as rookies go in terms of production is going to be either Robert Meachem or Dwayne Jarrett, in my opinion. Both are likely to be rookie starters and will have the benefits of playing with solid wide receivers already. They play with Drew Brees and Jake Delhomme respectively - two solid quarterbacks, to say the least. Steve Smith and Marques Colston will draw attention off of them. I could see Jarrett producing like Keyshawn did last year - they're extremely similar players, for the same team. KJ caught 70-815-4 last year. I think Jarrett could catch around 60 passes for 11 or 12 YPC as well as grabbing even more touchdowns than Johnson.


I'd give Dwayne Bowe the inside track right now as he is NFL ready with his overall game and will receive plenty of touches in KC. Those guys you listed could become monsters in the endzone as well.

Notredameleo
05-04-2007, 09:11 PM
He is going to be in the top 5 in TD catches!!! Lets make another baseless prediction. I predict that REGGIE BALL will have more TD catches than CJ..Hows that?

The Unseen
05-04-2007, 09:13 PM
Atleast give an alternative.

supermario86
05-04-2007, 09:19 PM
Who ever says CJ is not gonna be good is mentally ********

sweetness34
05-04-2007, 09:20 PM
Atleast give an alternative.

James Jones! Dudes got skillz....

supermario86
05-04-2007, 09:21 PM
CJ is a pimp he will be the best WR ever

VoteLynnSwan
05-04-2007, 09:23 PM
he's obviously just saying this because his favorite team passed on him. a move they will regret.

Caddy
05-04-2007, 09:29 PM
CJ is great, there is no denying that. I also think there is a strong possibility he isn't the best rookie receiver this year due to the competition he has in Furrey and Williams. Guys like Bowe and Davis have legitimate shots at producing more on the field this year. But when all is said and done Calvin Johnson will have had the best career.

simms2clayton
05-04-2007, 09:31 PM
He might not have the best rookie season statistically because he is on a team with a few veteran WRs like Furrey and Williams...but I think barring injury he will be one of the most productive rookies.

CC.SD
05-04-2007, 10:23 PM
I would say he won't be the best because he is on the LIONS, but I actually don't believe it.

In Detroit, they sling it, because Mike Martz is really in charge.

Roy Williams is Absolut (tm) Baller, and Furrey is a great complimentary target, which means Calvin won't see that many double teams, and he will subsequently dominate.



I think the most productive rookie wideouts will be from teams that aren't desperately depending on them. Guys like Meachem, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez, and of course Calvin have some other serious weapons on their offenses, and that counts for a lot.

Finsfan79
05-04-2007, 10:36 PM
cj killed jennings for da u last year and killed us this year too as well

toonsterwu
05-04-2007, 11:57 PM
James Jones! Dudes got skillz....

I think James Jones may surprise. They took a lot of bashing for that pick ... but he's a pick that makes sense for the offense ... and he's got some good size to use. I could see real solid numbers from James Jones.

As for the OP, I don't disagree. With how Mike Martz spreads the ball around, plus Roy and Furrey (to a lesser extent, Shaun McDonald), I don't see Calvin Johnson putting up the best numbers. I'm not even certain he'll ever live up to what's expected as the number 2 overall pick as a WR (which is basically a HOF caliber career). That said, to critique him as a person that rose based on the combines is ridiculous. He's been one of the most talented players in college since his freshman year. The difference between him and Dwayne Jarrett, though, is that he has top caliber pro tools.

If I had to bet money on top numbers for rookie receiver, I'd go with Bowe. Sort of by default. Payton and Brees spread the ball around and they have a strong running game. Reggie will get a bunch of catches, along with Colston. Meachem's liabilities may limit his numbers. Gonzalez and Davis will both be secondary options within versatile offenses. CJ has been noted above. Ted Ginn is too raw to see huge numbers as a receiver (now, as a returner, that's a separate issue).

gyzmo
05-05-2007, 12:02 AM
I expect Anthony Gonzalez to possibly have better statistics than CJ.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-05-2007, 01:11 AM
Whoever said he would be.Craig Davis will have the best rookie year at WR.CJ wasnt put into nearly as good situation.He has Kitna as his QB.

Geo
05-05-2007, 02:01 AM
1996 rookie wide receivers rec-yards-TDs
Terry Glenn 90-1132-6
Eddie Kennison 54-924-9
Meshawn Johnson 63-844-8
Marvin Harrison 64-836-8

Shiver
05-05-2007, 02:06 AM
1996 rookie wide receivers rec-yards-TDs
Terry Glenn 90-1132-6
Eddie Kennison 54-924-9
Meshawn Johnson 63-844-8
Marvin Harrison 64-836-8

Typo?


Haha

Caddy
05-05-2007, 03:28 AM
Typo?


Haha

That's no typo :D

WMD
05-05-2007, 04:44 AM
Not that this has anything to do with CJ being the most productive rookie, but I like this quote from Mike Martz::

"I've got goose bumps," Detroit offensive coordinator Mike Martz said on Saturday night, already plotting plays to take advantage of Johnson's skills. "I've never been so excited for a season to start." The orchestrator of the Greatest Show on Turf as coach of the Rams eight years ago, Martz took out a sheet of paper and drew a formation he expected to become a staple of his 2007 game plan: Roy Williams (the No. 7 pick in 2004) wide left, free-agent pickup and former Ram Shaun McDonald in the left slot, Mike Furrey (who combined with Williams for 180 catches and 2,396 yards last year) in the right slot and Johnson set wide right. "In this formation," Martz said, "you're going to get either Roy or Calvin deep, with no safety help. How do you defend that? Maybe Shaun on a shallow curl and Furrey down the field on a post taking the safeties with them." Marinelli said scatback Tatum Bell, acquired from Denver, should flourish in formations like this one, with the defense spread and running lanes open.
"This is the day," Martz said, "the franchise turns around."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/05/01/nfldraft0507/index.html

Addict
05-05-2007, 06:19 AM
Not that this has anything to do with CJ being the most productive rookie, but I like this quote from Mike Martz::

"I've got goose bumps," Detroit offensive coordinator Mike Martz said on Saturday night, already plotting plays to take advantage of Johnson's skills. "I've never been so excited for a season to start." The orchestrator of the Greatest Show on Turf as coach of the Rams eight years ago, Martz took out a sheet of paper and drew a formation he expected to become a staple of his 2007 game plan: Roy Williams (the No. 7 pick in 2004) wide left, free-agent pickup and former Ram Shaun McDonald in the left slot, Mike Furrey (who combined with Williams for 180 catches and 2,396 yards last year) in the right slot and Johnson set wide right. "In this formation," Martz said, "you're going to get either Roy or Calvin deep, with no safety help. How do you defend that? Maybe Shaun on a shallow curl and Furrey down the field on a post taking the safeties with them." Marinelli said scatback Tatum Bell, acquired from Denver, should flourish in formations like this one, with the defense spread and running lanes open.
"This is the day," Martz said, "the franchise turns around."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/05/01/nfldraft0507/index.html

please Mike... Be right!
CJ wide right... does that mean he's #1?

Iamcanadian
05-05-2007, 07:43 AM
Jon Kitna should again this year throw for over 4,000 yards so CJ should have atleast 1,000 of that.

I completely agree, Martz's offense puts up passing yards and Johnson will see a lot of balls coming his way. He's bound to have a pretty good year.

Notredameleo
05-05-2007, 08:38 AM
Even if he doesnt have the best statistical advantage of the rookies, he will definitely have the biggest impact, and I expect Roy to have a HUGE year...

Addict
05-05-2007, 08:56 AM
I completely agree, Martz's offense puts up passing yards and Johnson will see a lot of balls coming his way. He's bound to have a pretty good year.

did you hear the one in which Kitna says to CJ 'catch my balls?'

*chuckles at his own lame joke*

etk
05-05-2007, 09:22 AM
CJ wide right... does that mean he's #1?

No, it just means that in multiple WR sets he will be a split end because of his size. Furrey and McDonald will be the smaller slot receivers.

regoob2
05-05-2007, 10:17 AM
stat wise i think gonzalez will have the best year because of peyton. he makes a stud out of everybody

SenorGato
05-05-2007, 10:21 AM
Johnson will be a beast.

The end.

Addict
05-05-2007, 11:06 AM
No, it just means that in multiple WR sets he will be a split end because of his size. Furrey and McDonald will be the smaller slot receivers.

I have no idea what a split end is, but thanks for the info.

Notredameleo
05-05-2007, 11:11 AM
It means he will be on the outside!!!

Acreboy
05-05-2007, 02:21 PM
Umm Calvin Johnson had a stellar career at GT with Reggie Ball as his QB, has all the talent you can ask for, 6'5'', 240, great hands, incredible body control, physical, great leaping ability, can go across the middle, showed he has the straightline speed to beat CBs on go routes and get behind the secondary for the go route, has great character....He deserves the hype. Its not inconceivable that Dwayne Bowe or maybe a different WR could have a better rookie year than him but its ridiculous to go out and announce he wont be the best rookie wideout because he is obviously the best prospect.He didn't have a stellar career. He didn't really light it up until 2006.

He is touted so highly because he's a physical freak.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-05-2007, 02:36 PM
He didn't have a stellar career. He didn't really light it up until 2006.

He is touted so highly because he's a physical freak.

More catches and yards than Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson and more touchdowns than everyone but Fitzgerald. His college numbers are pretty spectacular.

Acreboy
05-05-2007, 02:41 PM
More catches and yards than Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson and more touchdowns than everyone but Fitzgerald. His college numbers are pretty spectacular.

2004-7 TD's

2005- 6 TD's

2006- 15 TD's

Didn't blow up until 2006

I was talking in terms of TD's. I'm sure all of you other stats are true.

etk
05-05-2007, 02:45 PM
More catches and yards than Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson and more touchdowns than everyone but Fitzgerald. His college numbers are pretty spectacular.


I wouldn't say so, he was very inconsistent until his Junior year. Eric Weddle completely shut him down in the Emerald Bowl, for example (2 catches for 19 yards I think). He was always well decorated but he didn't have the kind of production one would expect from a #2 pick until his Junior year. Dwayne Jarrett's numbers>>>>CJ's.

foozball
05-05-2007, 05:36 PM
I wouldn't say so, he was very inconsistent until his Junior year. Eric Weddle completely shut him down in the Emerald Bowl, for example (2 catches for 19 yards I think). He was always well decorated but he didn't have the kind of production one would expect from a #2 pick until his Junior year. Dwayne Jarrett's numbers>>>>CJ's.

jarrett also had a heisman QB and a heisman RB that teams had to focus on.

P-L
05-05-2007, 05:55 PM
I'm having a hard time wondering why a lot of people think Anthony Gonzalez is going to have the best rookie year. I know he has Peyton Manning throwing to him, and the Colts throw a lot. But still, do people forget who else the Colts have at WR? Gonzalez is going to be competing with a Hall of Famer and one of the best #2 receiver in football for catches. Not to mention that Dallas Clark is going to get his fair share of catches. I think Gonzalez will eventually be an upgrade over Stokley, but in Stokley's best year he got 1000 and 10. And I don't think anyone expects Peyton Manning to go for 4500 and 49 again. I like Gonzalez, but I think that Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, and even Craig Davis have better opportunities to out-produce him.

princefielder28
05-05-2007, 05:57 PM
I'm having a hard time wondering why a lot of people think Anthony Gonzalez is going to have the best rookie year. I know he has Peyton Manning throwing to him, and the Colts throw a lot. But still, do people forget who else the Colts have at WR? Gonzalez is going to be competing with a Hall of Famer and one of the best #2 receiver in football for catches. Not to mention that Dallas Clark is going to get his fair share of catches. I think Gonzalez will eventually be an upgrade over Stokley, but in Stokley's best year he got 1000 and 10. And I don't think anyone expects Peyton Manning to go for 4500 and 49 again. I like Gonzalez, but I think that Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, and even Craig Davis have better opportunities to out-produce him.

Gonzalez will certainly produce and put up decent numbers but I think out of rookie wideouts Robert Meachem could thrive quite a bit in the Saints offense.

eaglesfan_45
05-05-2007, 06:04 PM
I Don't Know if he'll produce the most but he is still the best there are only two more WRs who could possibly beat him out Robert Meacheam (? spelling) or Dwayne Bowe because they are in offenses that should produce good WRs but CJ is in a system like that too. There id a WR in this class that are going to be a sad story. Sidney Rice he would have been in the first round next year if he would have stayed in school and now he goes to a team that has Tavarias Jackson (? spelling)

Smokey Joe
05-05-2007, 06:40 PM
Yep, he is over hyped as hell. How often do you get 235 lbs, 6'5" receivers who can run 4.35 40's, and can put up very good numbers, especially when they have someone like Reggie Ball throwing to them? Hell, I could even find someone like that down the street.

Addict
05-05-2007, 07:07 PM
Yep, he is over hyped as hell. How often do you get 235 lbs, 6'5" receivers who can run 4.35 40's, and can put up very good numbers, especially when they have someone like Reggie Ball throwing to them? Hell, I could even find someone like that down the street.

HA you have to walk down the street. My neighbor's 6'7'' 255 lbs and he runs a 4.29 forty.

Really, there is NOTHING special about CJ.

WMD
05-05-2007, 10:32 PM
My Grandma is 6'10", 289 and runs a 3.82... and SHE was cut from my High School Football team because we had a 7'5" 310 WR that ran a .5

Phrost
05-05-2007, 10:39 PM
Agree with thread starter.

WMD
05-05-2007, 11:03 PM
He didn't say which WR's would out perform him.. or why CJ wouldn't be the best.

Okay, he thinks CJ is overhyped.. give us proof.. Is there a game where he played against top competition when he didn't show up? Did he drop a Game Winning pass in a clutch moment on more than one occasion?

It's just a stupid thread, everyone knows he's in an offense that had a ton of passing yards without him last year.. He is not going to be counted on, he's got two other WR's to compete with for catches.

asmitty45
05-05-2007, 11:04 PM
there is no rookie WR who is as talented AND CJ is in Martz's system. Count on at least 10 tds.

Shiver
05-05-2007, 11:14 PM
The Lions are going to throw it 620+ times I am sure. Calvin Johnson will have plenty of opportunities to dominate. Especially with Williams keeping the coverage honest. He has the physical tools to destroy corner backs in 1v1 situations. I would bet on at least 800 yards for him.

WMD
05-05-2007, 11:29 PM
I gave a reason why he wouldn't be the best Rookie WR this year.. but I think he will be up there. He's got everything, size, speed, jumping, catching, a good head on his shoulders. Not to mention Martz' system, and he's taking Furrey's spot at #2.. He should rack up the TD's, at the least. He's our biggest WR and should be our #1 Red Zone target. Roy Williams is still going to get his, and Furrey will get his too..

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
05-05-2007, 11:30 PM
I think him or Meachem will lead the league in rookie receiving stats. Meachem might be a starter with a better QB, OL, and a worse alternate option.

OzTitan
05-06-2007, 12:18 AM
I can easily see CJ not leading rookie WR's in stats - he's good but he's going up against a fair few players, some of which are on better overall teams with worse WR depth than the Lions.

geaux tigers
05-06-2007, 12:26 AM
we are talking about the detroit lions here though. something always goes wrong. maybe kitna will get hurt leaving stanton at qb.

sodar21
05-06-2007, 12:33 AM
Seems to me that Meachem is most likely to lead rookie in recieving (assuming he isn't a bust).

Phrost
05-06-2007, 12:35 AM
I'm having a hard time wondering why a lot of people think Anthony Gonzalez is going to have the best rookie year. I know he has Peyton Manning throwing to him, and the Colts throw a lot. But still, do people forget who else the Colts have at WR? Gonzalez is going to be competing with a Hall of Famer and one of the best #2 receiver in football for catches. Not to mention that Dallas Clark is going to get his fair share of catches. I think Gonzalez will eventually be an upgrade over Stokley, but in Stokley's best year he got 1000 and 10. And I don't think anyone expects Peyton Manning to go for 4500 and 49 again. I like Gonzalez, but I think that Dwayne Bowe, Calvin Johnson, and even Craig Davis have better opportunities to out-produce him.

The two best corners on Wayne and Harrison...opens things up.

D-Rod
05-06-2007, 03:33 AM
The guy who is going to win big from this is Mike Furrey.

Roy Williams - pretty much needs a double team.
Calvin Johnson - pretty much needs a double team.
Mike Furrey - going to abuse some nickelback all by his lonesome.

etk
05-06-2007, 09:44 AM
I'm having a hard time wondering why a lot of people think Anthony Gonzalez is going to have the best rookie year. I know he has Peyton Manning throwing to him, and the Colts throw a lot. But still, do people forget who else the Colts have at WR? Gonzalez is going to be competing with a Hall of Famer and one of the best #2 receiver in football for catches. Not to mention that Dallas Clark is going to get his fair share of catches.

Joseph Addai could potentially out-catch Gonzalez as well. They have way too many other weapons for a rookie #3 WR to make a big impact.

LitoSheppard
05-06-2007, 09:47 AM
My Grandma is 6'10", 289 and runs a 3.82... and SHE was cut from my High School Football team because we had a 7'5" 310 WR that ran a .5

Plus Rep!
-----------------------

Moses
05-06-2007, 10:08 AM
The guy who is going to win big from this is Mike Furrey.

Roy Williams - pretty much needs a double team.
Calvin Johnson - pretty much needs a double team.
Mike Furrey - going to abuse some nickelback all by his lonesome.

It's way too early to say that CJ will demand a double team. Williams will draw a constant double team on one side but CJ is still unproven. It could take him 2-3 years like most receivers to adjust to the NFL.

Addict
05-06-2007, 10:26 AM
My Grandma is 6'10", 289 and runs a 3.82... and SHE was cut from my High School Football team because we had a 7'5" 310 WR that ran a .5

BS I didn't go to school with you.

ChefMike
05-06-2007, 10:34 AM
Jon Kitna should again this year throw for over 4,000 yards so CJ should have atleast 1,000 of that.

OMG I think that Kitna is underrated... I mean look what he did with the other "CJ" in Cincy Chad Johnson otherwise known as "Ocho Cinco" and CJ is going to be better then him I think.

CJ could have 2000yds with Mike Martz and Kitna throwing to him !!!

I mean to the guy that started this thread... Did you see his Bowl Game this year against WVU ? The guy was playing like Jerry Rice against a Middle School Team !!!

aheineken
05-06-2007, 10:36 AM
Johnson was the considered the best WR prospect in the last decade BEFORE he ran his 40 time. He has the perfect size, amazing hands, ball control, route running...he has it all. Top it off by the fact that he's playing in the Air Martz offense. Pending injury, he's pretty much a lock for 90 catches and 1200 yards.

Moses
05-06-2007, 10:40 AM
Johnson was the considered the best WR prospect in the last decade BEFORE he ran his 40 time. He has the perfect size, amazing hands, ball control, route running...he has it all. Top it off by the fact that he's playing in the Air Martz offense. Pending injury, he's pretty much a lock for 90 catches and 1200 yards.

Are you kidding? No rookie receiver is a lock for anything, especially 90 catches and 1200 yards. Roy Williams who is a solidified superstar in the league only recorded 82 catches and 1310 yards last season.

ChefMike
05-06-2007, 10:47 AM
The OTHER argument that can be made against most WR's coming out that get drafted High (as in 1st rd) is that they are fast but arent strong, this guy is the size of a TE and Most TE's arent as Tall as him !! and he Bench Pressed 335lbs at his Pro Day just to put that in prospective...
Gaines Adams 350lbs
Patrick Willis 365lbs
Jarvis Moss 265lbs
LaMar Woodley 355lbs

Those guys are DE's and LB's !!!! This guy is not going to have a problem breaking free from a CB trying to jam him or a LB trying to cover him in the flat or a Safety trying to clean him out over the middle thus keeping him wide open for catching the ball and his hands are unquestionable.

This guy is going to make the Raiders really mad in about 3 years when Russell has No One to throw to and they still arent in the Playoffs and Detroit is.. albeit with a different QB probably not Drew Stanton but defintely not Jon Kitna !

ChefMike
05-06-2007, 10:52 AM
My Grandma is 6'10", 289 and runs a 3.82... and SHE was cut from my High School Football team because we had a 7'5" 310 WR that ran a .5

Damn I thought my Sister was a better prospect but she is only 6'8 560lbs and runs a 4.1 and plays DT... but she does have a 55 inch vertical leap and scored 400 on the wonderlic test...shes not Vince Young (Mr. 6 on the Wonderlic)

Smokey Joe
05-06-2007, 11:04 AM
The guy who is going to win big from this is Mike Furrey.

Roy Williams - pretty much needs a double team.
Calvin Johnson - pretty much needs a double team.
Mike Furrey - going to abuse some nickelback all by his lonesome.
It's cool... Vasher will lockdown Williams by his lonesome, and Tillman will welcome Johnson to the NFL Bears still. And Ricky Manning will east Furrey for breakfast. And then you got Brown And Archuletta waiting to lay the wood.

etk
05-06-2007, 11:05 AM
Johnson was the considered the best WR prospect in the last decade BEFORE he ran his 40 time. He has the perfect size, amazing hands, ball control, route running...he has it all. Top it off by the fact that he's playing in the Air Martz offense. Pending injury, he's pretty much a lock for 90 catches and 1200 yards.

Have fun with that.....

dcarey20
05-06-2007, 04:13 PM
There is a chance that CJ is not the best rookie receiver. I obviously think he will be, but there's a chance he won't be. If you went back to last year and said that Reggie Bush wouldn't be the best rookie back, people would have said you were crazy. Fastforward to now, and there are 2 rookie RB's who you could argue had better seasons than Bush. (Maurice Jones-Drew and Joseph Addai)

etk
05-06-2007, 04:17 PM
Fastforward to now, and there are 2 rookie RB's who you could argue had better seasons than Bush. (Maurice Jones-Drew and Joseph Addai)

Try telling that to any of the numerous Saints fans on this board who think Reggie Bush is better than Brian Westbrook or any rookie RB. It's quite laughable how homer-driven some teams and their fans are.

Acreboy
05-06-2007, 05:34 PM
I think Buster Davis will be the best rookie WR this season for a few reasons.

He's coming into the #1 WR role. He's the go to guy. He's in the best situation not being Anthony Gonzales. he has teams focusing on LT and not him.

Most talented? No.

Best overall season? Yes.

Try telling that to any of the numerous Saints fans on this board who think Reggie Bush is better than Brian Westbrook or any rookie RB. It's quite laughable how homer-driven some teams and their fans are.Bush didnt have better a better season than Addai or Jones-Drew but he's still a better player and thats all that counts.

etk
05-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Bush didnt have better a better season than Addai or Jones-Drew but he's still a better player and thats all that counts.

I'd take MJD on my team over Bush any day. Addai is a product of the system but MJD is a better and more valuable player than Bush.

WMD
05-06-2007, 10:14 PM
Yeah, but people questioned Reggie Bush's size.. Plus, he was on a real real good team at USC.. Calvin played with a butt QB, and still dominated. And he has basically no faults. Size is there, catching, speed, jumping, everything..

frisby213
05-06-2007, 10:19 PM
i'm a colts fan, so i have to think that anthony gonazlez could be the best statistical WR rookie this year...peyton manning's throws + marvin/reggie/dallas taking away defenders + talented kid with crazy speed = win.

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
05-06-2007, 10:22 PM
I think Buster Davis will be the best rookie WR this season for a few reasons.

Isn't Buster Davis a linebacker?

Are you thinking of Craig Davis from LSU?

Acreboy
05-06-2007, 10:22 PM
I'd take MJD on my team over Bush any day. Addai is a product of the system but MJD is a better and more valuable player than Bush.
I don't know 1 team that has ever or will ever game plan just to stop MJD. Every team that the Saints play will game plan to stop Bush.

Thats what separates them IMO.

Bush is more valuable and more versatile than all other RB's.

Once he starts running inside more he will be the undisputed best once LT retires of course.

Isn't Buster Davis a linebacker?
Craig "Buster" Davis

devinhester=R.O.Y 2006
05-06-2007, 10:25 PM
I don't know 1 team that has ever or will ever game plan just to stop MJD. Every team that the Saints play will game plan to stop Bush.

Thats what separates them IMO.

Bush is more valuable and more versatile than all other RB's.

Once he starts running inside more he will be the undisputed best once LT retires of course.


Craig "Buster" Davis

My bad I didn't know his nickname was Buster Davis.

Ho0k Em'
05-06-2007, 10:25 PM
Isn't Buster Davis a linebacker?

Are you thinking of Craig Davis from LSU?

Craig "Buster" Davis

Edit: i posted before he responded

Caddy
05-06-2007, 10:26 PM
Isn't Buster Davis a linebacker?

Are you thinking of Craig Davis from LSU?

They call the Davis out of LSU 'Buster' too.

JT Jag
05-06-2007, 10:55 PM
If the Lions were smart, they'd do due diligence to get Calvin Johnson on the field as often as possible.

That is, start him at wide receiver and start him at linebacker, too.

What could it hurt?

JT Jag
05-06-2007, 10:57 PM
I don't know 1 team that has ever or will ever game plan just to stop MJD. Every team that the Saints play will game plan to stop Bush.

Thats what separates them IMO.

Bush is more valuable and more versatile than all other RB's.

Once he starts running inside more he will be the undisputed best once LT retires of course.


Craig "Buster" DavisTell the Colts that it's dumb to gameplan to stop Maurice Drew. It's what they're going to do twice next year.

etk
05-06-2007, 11:08 PM
I don't know 1 team that has ever or will ever game plan just to stop MJD. Every team that the Saints play will game plan to stop Bush.

Thats what separates them IMO.

Bush is more valuable and more versatile than all other RB's.

Once he starts running inside more he will be the undisputed best once LT retires of course.




Bush is a very unaccomplished runner and I really don't envision him ever being a dominant back in that aspect. If I was running a defense I would feel pretty confident that I could neutralize him in the passing game, which is where he really dominates. If he was the full-time feature back at this stage it would be easy to gameplan against him because teams could stack up with extra DBs against the pass. MJD is very hard to tackle on the other hand and much more consistent of a runner. He has a low center of gravity and a powerful trunk, not to mention his exceptional vision. As a linebacker I know how hard it is to tackle strong 5'7 backs in the open field. He's a fine and capable receiver as well to go along with his breakaway return ability.

If I had to choose one of the two to build my team around it would be MJD. Bush is much more effective with McAllister on the field with him because teams have to account for both of them. That's the main reason why Bush has so many receptions and Deuce has such a high YPC. MJD can dominate on his own and is more versatile as a power/speed back with receiving and return ability.

kmartin575
05-07-2007, 01:04 AM
stat wise i think gonzalez will have the best year because of peyton. he makes a stud out of everybody

I don't think so.

Gonzalez will still be the 4th target behind Harrison, Wayne, and Clark.

kmartin575
05-07-2007, 01:06 AM
I think Buster Davis will be the best rookie WR this season for a few reasons.

He's coming into the #1 WR role. He's the go to guy. He's in the best situation not being Anthony Gonzales. he has teams focusing on LT and not him.

Most talented? No.

Best overall season? Yes.

Bush didnt have better a better season than Addai or Jones-Drew but he's still a better player and thats all that counts.


How is he coming into the #1 WR role? It is very unrealistic to expect a rookie to start as the #1 WR. Also, from what I have read the Chargers are going to try and use Craig Davis as the slot receiver this year.

Johnson, Bowe, and Meachem will all finish with more yards and/or touchodwns IMO.

661rep
05-07-2007, 06:42 PM
I think Dwayne Jarrett will have the best WR rookie season.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 06:55 PM
Craig 'Buster' Davis - good for at least 70 rec. 10 TD, 1200 yards lol.

I really think he will be a very productive target.

thebow305
05-07-2007, 07:00 PM
who will be then? i see no reason why he won't be, he is by far the most talented

Simple: Ted Ginn Jr.

<----------------- homer

ChefMike
05-07-2007, 07:01 PM
WOW are you guys forgetting that you arent going to be a super star in terms of stats as a freshman regardless... Adrian Peterson's and Maurice Clarett's are the exception not the norm... and when he was a Soph. he was putting up those numbers that albeit arent world beating but still extremely impressive for a Soph. WR playing against big time competition and in an offense that was not directed at him with that he still was a threat and Teams in the ACC had to change game plans for him...

thebow305
05-07-2007, 07:04 PM
It's cool... Vasher will lockdown Williams by his lonesome, and Tillman will welcome Johnson to the NFL Bears still. And Ricky Manning will east Furrey for breakfast. And then you got Brown And Archuletta waiting to lay the wood.

LMAO. Hey.... aren't you the same guy that argued with me about the Bears not taking a TE like hmmmm.... Greg Olsen. Glad to see that worked out for you. You were so sure too!

By the way, did you just say Ricky Manning? He's still in the league!? Coulda fooled me!

etk
05-07-2007, 07:12 PM
By the way, did you just say Ricky Manning? He's still in the league!? Coulda fooled me!

3 interceptions in one playoff game is more than any Dolphin CB could do in their whole career. I'd love to see how all 178 lbs. of Ted Ginn Jr. would handle Ricky Manning Jr. and his physicality.

thebow305
05-07-2007, 07:31 PM
3 interceptions in one playoff game is more than any Dolphin CB could do in their whole career. I'd love to see how all 178 lbs. of Ted Ginn Jr. would handle Ricky Manning Jr. and his physicality.

WOW... I mean WOW! YOU really showed me......:D

That was like 2 or 3 years ago, the man hasn't done **** since. Stop living in the past.

The dolphins CB's? Ok, are you talking about the ones we have now? Because we havent made it to the playoffs reently so it's not a fair argument. But if we are comparing Ricky Manning to any previous Dolphin cornerbacks, he couldn't even touch the level that Surtain and Madison played on for all those years, hell, he ain't ain't any better than Will or Jason Allen are right now. Dude is a scrub right now.

If he can get a hand on Ginn maybe he could match up with him. But he won't. Ginn would abuse him with his speed all day, then Ricky could pump his gas after the game. I can't believe you're talking about Ricky Manning like he actually means something.

Good one. Don't embarrass yourself please.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 07:33 PM
This is tantamount to a 'my Dad could beat up your Dad' argument.

thebow305
05-07-2007, 08:09 PM
more to the point, no wonder dg hates most of the phins fans here.

Why because I'm right? I don't know what you said in your last two post, it all sounds like gibberish to me. Ricky Manning hasn't proved **** yet, if that's what you mean. He had one good game a couple years ago. Ginn hasn't either, but I liek to think he will.

Yeah dg just hates that I was right about Ginn to the Dolphins, as a matter of fact, everyone does.

etk
05-07-2007, 08:17 PM
Excuse me while I grab a bucket of popcorn, thebow's posts are amusing enough to be movie theatre material.

I know they say "don't feed the troll", but my earlier post was so worth it:

Ginn would abuse him with his speed all day, then Ricky could pump his gas after the game


Classic.

sdpads24
05-07-2007, 08:33 PM
Craig Davis will be the best......

MP123
05-07-2007, 08:33 PM
that is all.

come back to me at the end on next season with some stats. im sure calvin johnson wont be the top rc WR.


seems to me like a lot of people were riding his sack before the draft. they even seem to call him a 'cant miss'. the best WR in 10 years...he was basically praised like he was GOD himself. lol @ predraft hype.

Who will be then?

frisby213
05-08-2007, 12:04 AM
Yeah dg just hates that I was right about Ginn to the Dolphins, as a matter of fact, everyone does.

That's only and impressive prediction if, on your mock, you had Quinn falling past #9. I think 90% of the people here would have the Dolphins taking Ginn if Quinn was already gone, that wasn't what was controversial...

kmartin575
05-08-2007, 12:36 AM
LMAO. Hey.... aren't you the same guy that argued with me about the Bears not taking a TE like hmmmm.... Greg Olsen. Glad to see that worked out for you. You were so sure too!

By the way, did you just say Ricky Manning? He's still in the league!? Coulda fooled me!


What does that mean? Ricky Manning is a young, talented corner. He is better than anybody on Miami's roster.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 01:20 AM
That's only and impressive prediction if, on your mock, you had Quinn falling past #9. I think 90% of the people here would have the Dolphins taking Ginn if Quinn was already gone, that wasn't what was controversial...

Uhhh.... no they didn't. Most had useless picks like Jamaal Anderson, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, or Okoye who I said for months wouldn't be the picks and you guys were wasting your time with them.

Every once in a blue moon, one or two brave souls would go out on a limb and say Ginn was possible. I said it for months, that it wasn't possible, it was reality.

**Thebow takes a bow** Thank you!

thebow305
05-08-2007, 01:22 AM
What does that mean? Ricky Manning is a young, talented corner. He is better than anybody on Miami's roster.

Good argument. Care to back that up? Oh that's right, you can't!

frisby213
05-08-2007, 01:34 AM
Uhhh.... no they didn't. Most had useless picks like Jamaal Anderson, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, or Okoye who I said for months wouldn't be the picks and you guys were wasting your time with them.

Every once in a blue moon, one or two brave souls would go out on a limb and say Ginn was possible. I said it for months, that it wasn't possible, it was reality.

**Thebow takes a bow** Thank you!

Are you kidding? I saw Ginn at #9 everywhere in versions that Quinn was already gone. The guys at NFL.com, many mocks here, even Kiper pointed it out as a likely possibility and he's an idiot. Picking Ginn wasn't a shock at all, it was just picking him OVER Quinn. Seeing as how your lack of a response to the real question I asked tells me you had Quinn going in the top 8, your prediction wasn't impressive at all.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 01:54 AM
Are you kidding? I saw Ginn at #9 everywhere in versions that Quinn was already gone. The guys at NFL.com, many mocks here, even Kiper pointed it out as a likely possibility and he's an idiot. Picking Ginn wasn't a shock at all, it was just picking him OVER Quinn. Seeing as how your lack of a response to the real question I asked tells me you had Quinn going in the top 8, your prediction wasn't impressive at all.

Did you get dropped on your head a lot when you were a baby?

Or are you just completely ignoring everything I say now? Because I tell you that some people had him to us as a possibility. But I've been saying for months that no matter what he was the pick. I was saying the same on draft day when Brady Quinn was staring the Phins right in the face at number nine. I know that we would take Beck/Edwards in the second so Ginn would be the pick no matter what at number 9. And look what happened. And I am also right about almost no one having Ginn at nine, everyone had either Leon Hall or Branch as the top possibilities if Quinn was gone, or Levi if he was still there. Ask anyone. Ask around. Go right ahead! Make my day because you will make yourself look bad in the process, just like you are doing now. YES!

"High score, what does that mean? Did I break it!?"

tEk
05-08-2007, 02:26 AM
Did you get dropped on your head a lot when you were a baby?

Or are you just completely ignoring everything I say now? Because I tell you that some people had him to us as a possibility. But I've been saying for months that no matter what he was the pick. I was saying the same on draft day when Brady Quinn was staring the Phins right in the face at number nine. I know that we would take Beck/Edwards in the second so Ginn would be the pick no matter what at number 9. And look what happened. And I am also right about almost no one having Ginn at nine, everyone had either Leon Hall or Branch as the top possibilities if Quinn was gone, or Levi if he was still there. Ask anyone. Ask around. Go right ahead! Make my day because you will make yourself look bad in the process, just like you are doing now. YES!

"High score, what does that mean? Did I break it!?"
this guy likes to toot his own horn, cuz he called one pick in the draft. so he has a ginn sig and thinks he is the draft god. gooooo thebow.

Moses
05-08-2007, 08:11 AM
Uhhh.... no they didn't. Most had useless picks like Jamaal Anderson, Leon Hall, Alan Branch, or Okoye who I said for months wouldn't be the picks and you guys were wasting your time with them.

Every once in a blue moon, one or two brave souls would go out on a limb and say Ginn was possible. I said it for months, that it wasn't possible, it was reality.

**Thebow takes a bow** Thank you!

You got one pick right. And you weren't the only one. Do you honestly think that the Dolphins had decided to take Ginn Jr. MONTHS before the draft? Get over yourself.

draftguru151
05-08-2007, 08:56 AM
Why because I'm right? I don't know what you said in your last two post, it all sounds like gibberish to me. Ricky Manning hasn't proved **** yet, if that's what you mean. He had one good game a couple years ago. Ginn hasn't either, but I liek to think he will.

Yeah dg just hates that I was right about Ginn to the Dolphins, as a matter of fact, everyone does.

I hated you all long before we took Ginn.

draftguru151
05-08-2007, 08:59 AM
Good argument. Care to back that up? Oh that's right, you can't!

Our DBs are terrible, please stop talking. Manning is better than any CB we have. You're not backing anything up. All you're doing is saying so and so is better, so and so sucks. Please do every one a favor and either learn how argue or just stop posting.

Acreboy
05-08-2007, 09:57 AM
That's only and impressive prediction if, on your mock, you had Quinn falling past #9. I think 90% of the people here would have the Dolphins taking Ginn if Quinn was already gone, that wasn't what was controversial...
No, I don't think they would have had them taking a WR..

The right pick would have been Jamal Anderson or Darrelle Revis. Leon Hall is way overrated.

The Phins just had Ginn rated way too highly. I mean he won't even be ready for TC..

thebow305
05-08-2007, 11:18 AM
You got one pick right. And you weren't the only one. Do you honestly think that the Dolphins had decided to take Ginn Jr. MONTHS before the draft? Get over yourself.

Maybe not for sure, but they were definitely thinking about it, and that's not why I'm tooting my own horn it's the fact that I made that bold predicition and continued to back it up with good reasoning. Then it happened. Kiper didn't see it happening and neither did Mayock, then they were both shocked at the outcome. Why were they shocked? Because they felt it was the wrong move, well, the teams are not always gonna go with what the "experts" think they should do, it's what they felt was right for the team, so they went with Ginn. These "experts" need to get over themselves sometimes. that's all.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 11:25 AM
Our DBs are terrible, please stop talking. Manning is better than any CB we have. You're not backing anything up. All you're doing is saying so and so is better, so and so sucks. Please do every one a favor and either learn how argue or just stop posting.

How bitter you are. How do you know Manning is better than anyone we have. That's not an argument at all almighty Draft Guru. He had one good game in the playoffs a couple years ago and hasn't done anything since. He doesn't start. If he was all that good, he would beat out Charles Tillman who is not that great, and is one of the more overrated corners in the league, just because his front seven is so dominating, it makes him look better than he is. (See: Asante Samuel) Jason Allen hasn't started a whole season yet and Will Allen is very talented and continued to progress as the season moved along, and last time I checked, they are starting for their team. He lost the position battle to Gamble and Lucas in Carolina, then was traded, and now he's not starting over Tillman and Vasher. Dude is a washup and saying he is better than anyone we have is being very hypocritical. What a terrible fan you are. How's that for an argument? Or would you not know what one looked like if you saw one? Last time I checked, you had no argument here.

OhioState
05-08-2007, 11:27 AM
dude, i like Ginn alot too but this is just too much

OhioState
05-08-2007, 11:34 AM
I don't think so.

Gonzalez will still be the 4th target behind Harrison, Wayne, and Clark.

brandon stokely got 1000 from peyton when he was healthy and Gonzo is a bigger faster and better version of him

SFbear
05-08-2007, 05:13 PM
Im really confused how a Calvin Johnson thread turned into a thread of Non Bears fans arguing about our third string cornerback.


These "experts" need to get over themselves sometimes. that's all.

I would suggest following the same advice.

draftguru151
05-08-2007, 08:14 PM
How bitter you are. How do you know Manning is better than anyone we have. That's not an argument at all almighty Draft Guru. He had one good game in the playoffs a couple years ago and hasn't done anything since. He doesn't start. If he was all that good, he would beat out Charles Tillman who is not that great, and is one of the more overrated corners in the league, just because his front seven is so dominating, it makes him look better than he is. (See: Asante Samuel) Jason Allen hasn't started a whole season yet and Will Allen is very talented and continued to progress as the season moved along, and last time I checked, they are starting for their team. He lost the position battle to Gamble and Lucas in Carolina, then was traded, and now he's not starting over Tillman and Vasher. Dude is a washup and saying he is better than anyone we have is being very hypocritical. What a terrible fan you are. How's that for an argument? Or would you not know what one looked like if you saw one? Last time I checked, you had no argument here.

You haven't said anything about Manning other than he doesn't start. Does that mean he sucks? He is one of, if not the best nickel back in the league. He plays nickel because he lacks the size. He is still better than our CBs. Jason Allen? You want to talk about doing nothing, he hasn't even played CB in the NFL. Will Allen? The guy who is pretty much a guarantee to either get burnt of have a PI a game? And the guy who can't catch or make a play on the ball to save his life. The only decent CB we had last year you didn't mention, which was Andre Goodman. Manning is a great nickel back, and both of the starters in Chicago are very good players. He is very physical and can actually make plays, unlike any defensive back on Miami. I'm sorry I don't go around screaming blind homer statements like you.

neko4
05-08-2007, 08:21 PM
Im really confused how a Calvin Johnson thread turned into a thread of Non Bears fans arguing about our third string cornerback.




I would suggest following the same advice.

someone said how EVEN Manning could cover so-and-so Wide reciever and i guess someone took offense to that. It went down something like that.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 09:09 PM
You haven't said anything about Manning other than he doesn't start. Does that mean he sucks? He is one of, if not the best nickel back in the league. He plays nickel because he lacks the size. He is still better than our CBs. Jason Allen? You want to talk about doing nothing, he hasn't even played CB in the NFL. Will Allen? The guy who is pretty much a guarantee to either get burnt of have a PI a game? And the guy who can't catch or make a play on the ball to save his life. The only decent CB we had last year you didn't mention, which was Andre Goodman. Manning is a great nickel back, and both of the starters in Chicago are very good players. He is very physical and can actually make plays, unlike any defensive back on Miami. I'm sorry I don't go around screaming blind homer statements like you.

I already made out a whole paragraph explaining why Manning sucks, it's just your hate for me that blinded you from seeing it. But that's ok, I'll retate it for you.

I told you how Manning hasn't had a good game since that playoff game in Carolina against the Eagles. He lost the position battle in Carolina to Chris Gamble and Ken Lucas, then got traded, and is not even starting over Charles Tillman, who is one of the more overrated corners in the league. Don't give me the size excuse, that's the worst argument you can make. The late Darrent Williams was 5'8" and about the same exact size of Manning, as is Dre Bly, and both were/are shutdown corners in this league. I can't believe you compare him to Jason Allen, who never got the chance to play last year (at cornerback) he will be making the switch this year, so that comparison is completely unfair. You said Tillman is a very good player? HAHA.... LMAO! He is a perfect example of the product of the team around him. His front seven do all the dirty work and make him look terrific in the process (just like Asante Samuel).

I said all this before, but once again you chose to ignore it. You're right you don't go around screaming blind homer statements, you just say nothing at all. Terrible argument on your part once again, but should I have expected any more?

thebow305
05-08-2007, 09:12 PM
darrent williams was a shutdown cornerback? uh, what?

He was sure on his way to being one. If you watched any of his games in Denver you would've seen that.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 09:26 PM
i'm a denver fan you blithering... i've watched more of them in one week than you've likely seen in an entire season. but hey, nice backtrack from he "was" to he "was becoming one". maybe your next post will step all the way back to "well he was pretty good".

Ok, then you know how good he was, why are you arguing with me?

I am so impressed by how much you've watched of them.... really... i am! Unbelievable! What a cool guy.....

***applause***

thebow305
05-08-2007, 09:44 PM
i was wrong, you were going to play the "let's have a different discussion in which i'm not clearly wrong" card. awesome.

darrent williams was absolutely no where near shutdown level last year or the year before. period. you're wrong.

Ok then you weren't watching the same DW that I was last season, as well as many other people who felt he was one of the fast rising stars in the league and very well on his way to becoming one of the great corners in this league. Keep it up... Job well done! I am still clapping for you by the way! You are awesome!

"Sh*t's weak! WIZZZEEEAK!"

JK17
05-08-2007, 09:59 PM
Ok then you weren't watching the same DW that I was last season, as well as many other people who felt he was one of the fast rising stars in the league and very well on his way to becoming one of the great corners in this league. Keep it up... Job well done! I am still clapping for you by the way! You are awesome!

"Sh*t's weak! WIZZZEEEAK!"

For some reason I think I'm going to take the moderator/huge Bronco fans side on this one....

Not to mention that just as a Charger fan I've seen enough of DW to know he wasn't shutdown.....I remember a lot of Broncos fans not being to thrilled wtih him...

draftguru151
05-08-2007, 10:01 PM
I already made out a whole paragraph explaining why Manning sucks, it's just your hate for me that blinded you from seeing it. But that's ok, I'll retate it for you.

I told you how Manning hasn't had a good game since that playoff game in Carolina against the Eagles. He lost the position battle in Carolina to Chris Gamble and Ken Lucas, then got traded, and is not even starting over Charles Tillman, who is one of the more overrated corners in the league. Don't give me the size excuse, that's the worst argument you can make. The late Darrent Williams was 5'8" and about the same exact size of Manning, as is Dre Bly, and both were/are shutdown corners in this league. I can't believe you compare him to Jason Allen, who never got the chance to play last year (at cornerback) he will be making the switch this year, so that comparison is completely unfair. You said Tillman is a very good player? HAHA.... LMAO! He is a perfect example of the product of the team around him. His front seven do all the dirty work and make him look terrific in the process (just like Asante Samuel).

I said all this before, but once again you chose to ignore it. You're right you don't go around screaming blind homer statements, you just say nothing at all. Terrible argument on your part once again, but should I have expected any more?

Just because you say he has bad games doesn't make it true. Just like saying Williams was good last year doesn't make it true. You said Jason Allen is a better CB that Manning. He hasn't played CB in the NFL so how could you possible know that. Once again, just because you keep saying things doesn't mean they are true. Manning had more than twice the INTs of anyone on our team last year. As a nickel back he almost had as many tackles as Will Allen. If any of our DBs were on teams with a decent CB they wouldn't start. You keep saying Tillman benefits from the Bears front 7, the Dolphins front 7 is better than the Bears and our CBs still look bad.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 10:05 PM
*sigh*



you weren't wacthing him last season because you weren't watching more than 2 minutes of denver football. i could probably count on one hand the number of times we were televised outside of local markets, which at BEST says you saw 1/3 as much bronco football as i did. and you're STILL backtracking, now all the way back to "rising star". so what was he? a shutdown corner? about to be a shutdown corner? getting good? you're a coward without either a strong opinion or any actual evidence ("many people" thought he was? QUOTE THEM). again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. i challenge you to prove that wrong with an actual breakdown of a game (you know him so much better than i do, that shouldn't be too much to ask) and some quotes from these "many people" backing you up. don't have it or can't find it? stop posting.

I have Sunday Ticket, smart guy. You really didn't think about that very much did you? HAH! You seemed so sure of yourself. Please. To be completely honest, I know very little about DW, although I watched a bunch of him last season because I like watching D.J. Williams (As I am a huge UM fan) and DW stuck out to me as one of the better Denver defenders not named Champ Bailey. I'm not an expert on NFL cornerbacks, nor do I claim to be. I am glad to see you are though, and you know SOOOOOOOO much about them. That's good for you. I love that I am sticking up for a Denver defender (not to mention a deceased one, at that) against a Bronco fan. And I don't really know why we are talking about him so much.... let me get back to what I was really saying... Ricky Manning sucks.

draftguru151
05-08-2007, 10:08 PM
You are defending him because you made a stupid point that njx called out and he isn't a homer like you and actually realized Williams was nowhere near as good as you made him sound.

thebow305
05-08-2007, 10:11 PM
You are defending him because you made a stupid point that njx called out and he isn't a homer like you and actually realized Williams was nowhere near as good as you made him sound.

A double-team! Yes! I like it!

Come on Moderators... stop picking on a poor little old Veteran like me. IT'S JUST NOT FAIR. :D

You're just jealous of my sig aren't you? Guru, I can have one made for you just like it. How would you like that? I know how much you love Ginn, so I'll get that going for you!

Canuck
05-08-2007, 10:16 PM
Reggie Ball made him look good. Without Ball, CJ is nothing. HOWEVER, if the Lions, who signed Ball, realize that he is everything you could ever want in a QB and decide to hand him the reins to the franchise, then I fully expect CJ, and any other WR to flourish.

Reggie Ball is a franchise QB...



















... and anybody that thought that I was being serious is either a moron or Reggie Ball's mom. :D

-black
05-08-2007, 10:18 PM
im not going to search thru all of these posts....but wat was it that turned a CJ thread into a discussion on Ricky Manning?

-black
05-08-2007, 10:24 PM
Calvin Johnson is a beast..........


carry on

thebow305
05-08-2007, 10:29 PM
Calvin Johnson is a beast..........


carry on

*****Cosign*****

etk
05-08-2007, 10:39 PM
He was sure on his way to being one. If you watched any of his games in Denver you would've seen that.

Peyton and Wayne beg to differ......

jared
05-08-2007, 11:19 PM
Peyton and Wayne beg to differ......
That's what I was about to say. I remember the announcers pointing out how bad DW was getting picked apart.

CC.SD
05-09-2007, 12:00 AM
Ok then you weren't watching the same DW that I was last season, as well as many other people who felt he was one of the fast rising stars in the league and very well on his way to becoming one of the great corners in this league. Keep it up... Job well done! I am still clapping for you by the way! You are awesome!

"Sh*t's weak! WIZZZEEEAK!"

I will step in and offer some support because anybody who drops a grandma's boy reference on a football board is ok by me.

Darrent Williams had some raw talent, and considering his youth and relative inexperience played well; he was opposite Champ! come on. Nobody is going to look good playing opposite of Champ Bailey. Not even Dre Bly...from 5 years ago.

He wasn't shutdown, but he wasn't a total screwup, and given a couple more years would have been a great player.

teneight
05-09-2007, 04:17 AM
just get back to me at season ends.

CJ wont break 75catches...or 1000 yards


MARK MY ******* WORDS !!#$@#^*((&*()

I'mAHustler
05-09-2007, 06:44 AM
lol @ idiotic Ginn homers getting owned...

And I love how people do not realize a good argument requires information and support, not blanket vitriolic statements attempting to insult the intelligence of the poster (you can only do that AFTER you prove their an idiot).

thebow just got http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/owned.gif

I'mAHustler
05-09-2007, 06:45 AM
Anyways, Calvin is going to have a decent rookie year.

thebow305
05-09-2007, 10:44 AM
lol @ idiotic Ginn homers getting owned...

And I love how people do not realize a good argument requires information and support, not blanket vitriolic statements attempting to insult the intelligence of the poster (you can only do that AFTER you prove their an idiot).

thebow just got http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/owned.gif

I did provide information, or did you fail to see that? Who are YOU anyway?

Addict
05-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Calvin Johnson is a beast..........


carry on

*****Cosign*****

surrender noted.

just get back to me at season ends.

CJ wont break 75catches...or 1000 yards


MARK MY ******* WORDS !!#$@#^*((&*()

He will, he's either #1 or #2 in a pass-happy offense co÷rdinated by Martz. He'll make it, he'll end up with 75-90 catches, 1000-1200 yards and 8-10 tds. Fingers crossed.

Wyndham
11-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Maybe not.

Solomon
11-28-2007, 06:13 PM
I love how Etk predicted Dwayne Bowe would be the best back in May. And Sweetness predicted James Jones (although he may have been sarcastic).

P-L
11-28-2007, 06:21 PM
I love how Etk predicted Dwayne Bowe would be the best back in May. And Sweetness predicted James Jones (although he may have been sarcastic).

I predicted Dwayne Bowe as well, although not in this thread (I'm going to try and find another thread in which I did). Obviously I felt Calvin Johnson was BY FAR the best WR prospect but I also felt he was very overhyped and that Bowe would have a better career. Obviously, it's way too early to determine who will have the better career.

Also, that was a good call by sweetness on James Jones. I never could've imagined he would put up the numbers he has. Then again, I don't think anyone thought Brett Favre would get extraordinarily better and have the season he has either.

mqtirishfan
11-28-2007, 06:32 PM
James Jones! Dudes got skillz....

Pretty good call. :D

LonghornsLegend
11-28-2007, 07:12 PM
I can see Dwayne Bowe outproducing him this year, but that's no knock on CJ. Even Mike Furrey outproduced Roy Williams in Martz's offense, so there's no telling how many passes CJ will see. He will easily lead the rookies and possibly the league in TD catches though. If he was in Tampa Bay this wouldn't even be a question, you could already mark him down in the HOF ;)

Edit: Your sig amuses me almost as much as your post.

good call on Dwayne Bowe

TyronePoole38
11-28-2007, 07:26 PM
I can see Dwayne Bowe outproducing him this year, but that's no knock on CJ. Even Mike Furrey outproduced Roy Williams in Martz's offense, so there's no telling how many passes CJ will see. He will easily lead the rookies and possibly the league in TD catches though. If he was in Tampa Bay this wouldn't even be a question, you could already mark him down in the HOF ;)

Edit: Your sig amuses me almost as much as your post.

your prediction is looking good :cool:

GB12
11-28-2007, 08:22 PM
Sweetness was not being serious when he said that. toonster is the one that got that, and pretty much hit everything perfectly.
I think James Jones may surprise. They took a lot of bashing for that pick ... but he's a pick that makes sense for the offense ... and he's got some good size to use. I could see real solid numbers from James Jones.

As for the OP, I don't disagree. With how Mike Martz spreads the ball around, plus Roy and Furrey (to a lesser extent, Shaun McDonald), I don't see Calvin Johnson putting up the best numbers. I'm not even certain he'll ever live up to what's expected as the number 2 overall pick as a WR (which is basically a HOF caliber career). That said, to critique him as a person that rose based on the combines is ridiculous. He's been one of the most talented players in college since his freshman year. The difference between him and Dwayne Jarrett, though, is that he has top caliber pro tools.

If I had to bet money on top numbers for rookie receiver, I'd go with Bowe. Sort of by default. Payton and Brees spread the ball around and they have a strong running game. Reggie will get a bunch of catches, along with Colston. Meachem's liabilities may limit his numbers. Gonzalez and Davis will both be secondary options within versatile offenses. CJ has been noted above. Ted Ginn is too raw to see huge numbers as a receiver (now, as a returner, that's a separate issue).

Travis 24
11-28-2007, 09:37 PM
My prediction other than Calvin Johnson, who I think is gonna be a beast, was Johnnie Lee Higgins...I had him rated extremely high last year. I see him being a Marvin Harrison type guy.

But going by this year, how can you not go with James Jones?..that guy is electric, and he has some of the best hands I've seen all year..and he separates from defenders soooo quickly. He's gonna be a GREAT player..

619
11-28-2007, 09:46 PM
My prediction other than Calvin Johnson, who I think is gonna be a beast, was Johnnie Lee Higgins...I had him rated extremely high last year. I see him being a Marvin Harrison type guy.

But going by this year, how can you not go with James Jones?..that guy is electric, and he has some of the best hands I've seen all year..and he separates from defenders soooo quickly. He's gonna be a GREAT player..

higgins is mainly just a deep threat and i dont he will ever be the complete receiver id hope he would be

etk
11-28-2007, 10:21 PM
I love how Etk predicted Dwayne Bowe would be the best back in May. And Sweetness predicted James Jones (although he may have been sarcastic).

good call on Dwayne Bowe

your prediction is looking good :cool:

I can't believe this, when did I say that!?!?! I always thought Bowe was the most NFL-ready WR in that class, but I also thought he was overrated on this site. Wow, props to me :D

etk
11-28-2007, 10:23 PM
I'd give Dwayne Bowe the inside track right now as he is NFL ready with his overall game and will receive plenty of touches in KC. Those guys you listed could become monsters in the endzone as well.

Things are getting a bit clearer now...

Travis 24
11-29-2007, 05:47 AM
higgins is mainly just a deep threat and i dont he will ever be the complete receiver id hope he would be

Well its still early...He wasn't just a deep threat at UTEP

drowe
11-29-2007, 07:58 AM
Sweetness was not being serious when he said that. toonster is the one that got that, and pretty much hit everything perfectly.

wow. toonster pretty much nailed every WR taken in the first round. of all his great posts, that MAY have been the most impressive.

Finsfan79
11-29-2007, 08:00 AM
ginn has been better then I thought he has progressed and grown each week.

of course I was expecting randal Hill so I guess I didnt give him very high standards to eclipse

Jughead10
11-29-2007, 08:27 AM
I just wish Steve Smith was on the field so I could see where he stands with some of these guys. He might be back this week. FINALLY!