PDA

View Full Version : Chicago Bears Discussion


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15

bigbluedefense
09-13-2007, 10:53 AM
Is it a safe bet to assume that the Bears will go after Keith Rivers in this year's draft as their #1 pick? I know its early to talk about the draft, but that fit just makes too much sense to me. Its like we might as well give him to the Bears right now.

The only guy I can see being taken other than Rivers is a qb, but I don't like this qb class. And I feel Angelo would be reaching if he got one.

VoteLynnSwan
09-13-2007, 12:42 PM
Is it a safe bet to assume that the Bears will go after Keith Rivers in this year's draft as their #1 pick? I know its early to talk about the draft, but that fit just makes too much sense to me. Its like we might as well give him to the Bears right now.

The only guy I can see being taken other than Rivers is a qb, but I don't like this qb class. And I feel Angelo would be reaching if he got one.

Keith Rivers would be a very interesting pick, and a great fit, but it all depends on how Lovie and Jerry Angelo feel about Jamar Williams and Michael Okwo as replacements for Briggs... they both had excellant training camps, and i really don't think we need to spend a 1st round pick on a WLB because Lance Briggs won't be as hard to replace as many might think.

As far as the 1st rounder goes, I'd look at OL or QB depending on how Rex Grossman does down the stretch. I really don't see a QB in the 1st because we could always have Brian Griese start for a year or two and develop a mid-round guy.

sweetness34
09-13-2007, 01:49 PM
Ron Rivera is a smug piece of crap IMO. Very talented coach but a cancer as well. He'll soon be SD's head coach and he'll probably be very successful but he's in it for himself, he thinks he's gods gift to coaching, and I'm glad he's gone.

SFbear
09-13-2007, 03:08 PM
Rivera denies calling Grossman a "mental midget". He says the player misquoted him.

'cuse-213
09-13-2007, 07:33 PM
Hey, would you guys trade Derrick Ward for Olsen? Im not sure about his knee injury, and would like your guys opinion. I have good depth at RB too.

Smokey Joe
09-13-2007, 09:06 PM
Hey, would you guys trade Derrick Ward for Olsen? Im not sure about his knee injury, and would like your guys opinion. I have good depth at RB too.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NOOOOOOOOO!

bearsfan_51
09-13-2007, 09:48 PM
I don't even know who the **** Derrick Ward is.

As for drafting an OLB in the 1st round, I don't see it. Even if Grossman performs well this year, we've got too many starters on the wrong side of 30 to not start drafting their replacements.

Hurricane Ditka
09-13-2007, 09:50 PM
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm NOOOOOOOOO!
I'm pretty sure he's talking about fantasy football.

DaBears9654
09-13-2007, 10:02 PM
I don't even know who the **** Derrick Ward is.

As for drafting an OLB in the 1st round, I don't see it. Even if Grossman performs well this year, we've got too many starters on the wrong side of 30 to not start drafting their replacements.
I also noticed Okwo listed on the strong side according to the depth chart before he was put on IR. I'm thinking the team is planning on him and Williams being the OLBs of the future. This is pure speculation on my part, but it is the gut feeling that I have.

bearsfan_51
09-13-2007, 10:44 PM
Hunter is awesome. People have been talking about his replacement for years now. Ain't happenin'. Okwo was playing SLB so that he could get reps on the 2nd team. The positions are pretty interchangeable anyway.

bigbluedefense
09-14-2007, 09:06 AM
Hunter is awesome. People have been talking about his replacement for years now. Ain't happenin'. Okwo was playing SLB so that he could get reps on the 2nd team. The positions are pretty interchangeable anyway.

I know Angelo is committed to keeping a dominant defense however, opposed to building a balanced team. If Rivers is as great as people say he is, you can plug him in and not miss a beat.

Rivers is built for Cover 2 as well, he's a perfect fit.

I guess I can see you guys going after Tackles as well, your OTs are getting old and this is a great Tackle class. This could be a make or break year for Benson too. So RB isn't out of the question either.

If Im Angelo, I stay away from these quarterbacks. So far, none of them catch my eye.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2007, 04:10 PM
My very very verrrrrry early 1st day mock would go something to the tune of:

1st round- Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College

-Big size, fills a need, good program producing lineman. Can't be scared off by the Columbo failure, this guy has much more ability.

2nd round- D.J Hall, WR, Alabama

-We've done a nice job of adding speed to our offense, but personally I think it's time to bring a little more balance back. Hall could be a contributor right off the bat that can move the chains ala Moose.

3rd round- Quintin Demps, S, UTEP

-Probably not a ton of upside, but he fits the system and we need the depth. Mike Brown should have been cut in March, I said it then.

3rd round- Amir Pinnix, RB, Minnesota

-A little early? Maybe. But Minnesota produces good runningbacks, and Pinnix is a talented player.


By the way, my early mock last year was 1)Michael Griffin 2)Justin Durant 3)Brandon Mebane and all three ended up going earlier than when we picked, so we'll see how things develop this year.

princefielder28
09-14-2007, 06:02 PM
I watched Pinnix play last Saturday and I would find it hard to believe he'll be a first day pick. Physically he might have the ability but the Frosh Bennett impressed me more at RB.

'cuse-213
09-14-2007, 10:42 PM
I'm pretty sure he's talking about fantasy football.

Nope. I now run the Bears organization and go to the fans to see what to do.

Hurricane Ditka
09-15-2007, 11:17 AM
Nope. I now run the Bears organization and go to the fans to see what to do.You'll have to excuse Smokey, he's how you say, ********.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-15-2007, 10:49 PM
I'd love a shot at Andre Woodson.

What a baller. He owned Louisville today.

Smokey Joe
09-15-2007, 11:41 PM
I'd love a shot at Andre Woodson.

What a baller. He owned Louisville today.

If Grossman has a season similar to last season and we lose the big game again or don't even make it, my no. 1 wish is a trade up for Andre' Woodseon. No. 2 would have McNabb cut by the Eagles and we bring him in.

GB12
09-15-2007, 11:44 PM
If Grossman has a season similar to last season and we lose the big game again or don't even make it, my no. 1 wish is a trade up for Andre' Woodseon. No. 2 would have McNabb cut by the Eagles and we bring him in.

If I was a Bears fan I'd say the other way around. They are ready to win now, not wait for a rookie QB to develop.

Smokey Joe
09-15-2007, 11:45 PM
Hunter is awesome. People have been talking about his replacement for years now. Ain't happenin'. Okwo was playing SLB so that he could get reps on the 2nd team. The positions are pretty interchangeable anyway.
I have been raving about HH for a while now, going back to last year. He isn't flashy or anything, but all he does is go out there, and does his job. He isn't gonna make any huge plays, but he does what he's asked to do.

As far as WILL goes, from what I had heard Jamar Williams looked great in camp and he did look very good in preseason, and if he was on another team he'd probably be starting right now. Next year he will most likely be the starting WILL and Okwo will be the back up, and possibly come in on passing downs (from what I have heard Williams is great in run support and taking on blocks but lacks in pass coverage, however Okwo is pretty much the opposite.

Smokey Joe
09-15-2007, 11:46 PM
If I was a Bears fan I'd say the other way around. They are ready to win now, not wait for a rookie QB to develop.
I know, but Bear fans have waited soooooo long for a franchise QB.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 12:00 AM
My very very verrrrrry early 1st day mock would go something to the tune of:

1st round- Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College

-Big size, fills a need, good program producing lineman. Can't be scared off by the Columbo failure, this guy has much more ability.

2nd round- D.J Hall, WR, Alabama

-We've done a nice job of adding speed to our offense, but personally I think it's time to bring a little more balance back. Hall could be a contributor right off the bat that can move the chains ala Moose.

3rd round- Quintin Demps, S, UTEP

-Probably not a ton of upside, but he fits the system and we need the depth. Mike Brown should have been cut in March, I said it then.

3rd round- Amir Pinnix, RB, Minnesota

-A little early? Maybe. But Minnesota produces good runningbacks, and Pinnix is a talented player.


By the way, my early mock last year was 1)Michael Griffin 2)Justin Durant 3)Brandon Mebane and all three ended up going earlier than when we picked, so we'll see how things develop this year.
not bad, not bad. I like Gosder a lot and our right side could be a couple of BC guys (Beekman and Gosder). Miller is pretty much done if you ask me.

I like the Hall idea as well. Moose only has a little left in the tank and a replacement will be needed. I'd like someone like Limas Sweed in the first if he was there probably better, but OT is probably a bigger need then WR.

I have been thinking about RB as well, but if we were to bring one in, who would be the odd man out? Lets say Benson has a decent first full season (1,000+ rushing yards), plus with his contract he wouldn't be going anywhere. Peterson is beloved on this team, and Wolfe was drafted in the 3rd round. But a duo of Peterson and Wolfe being our no. 2 option if Benson goes down gives me much, if any, comfort. Now, I am a big James Davis fan, but even if he is there for our second round pick, that could be to early to take a RB.

And finally, I wouldn't mind seeing a FB like Owen Schmidt be brought in the middle rounds.

Side note about HH, he leads the team w/ 9 tackles.

bearsfan_51
09-16-2007, 09:50 AM
We could keep 4 runningbacks, it's not that uncommon. Either way I have absolutely no confidence that Garrett Wolfe will ever be a contributor at runningback (maybe as a pass catcher out of the backfield) so this really only adds a more legit RB to the mix.

It was either that, a DT, or another OLB and I'm not ready to give up on Dusty and feel like we already have enough mid-round linebackers on the roster.

Bearsfan123
09-16-2007, 10:06 AM
The runningback I think fits us best is Jonathan Stewart. The guy's a beast. But since in the most likely case hes gone. Ian Johnson also would seem to fit us pretty well.

As to OT it looks like its gonna be a good crop this year especially for seniors. So it might be a good idea to trade up in the second for one that falls.

WR I dont think we can afford to use our 1st or 2nd rd picks on. We are already holding 6 on the roster. I dont think its likely we will carry 7.

bearsfan_51
09-16-2007, 10:48 AM
WR I dont think we can afford to use our 1st or 2nd rd picks on. We are already holding 6 on the roster. I dont think its likely we will carry 7.
Hester is basically an x-factor, we would carry him regardless. As for the other 5, Berrian is the only one that can be assumed to have a spot locked up next year, and he's up for free agency. If Bradley doesn't come on this year we're going to need to find someone to play across from Berrian, or god forbid he leaves.

As for the QB position, I would prefer we sign/trade for a veteran like Chad Pennington and let him compete with Griese and Orton (assuming Grossman doesn't work out). Drafting a franchise QB would be nice but I just don't think it's a luxury we'll have this year. If Colt Brennan impresses he'll likely go too early, and if he doesn't I dont' think I'd want him. Henne, JDB, or Ryan would be fine in the 2nd, but none of them get me really excited either.

The notion that we would even have enough to trade up for Woodson seems very far fetched, unless you're thinking we only win 8-9 games this year, which I suppose isn't out of the question.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 11:32 AM
Hester is basically an x-factor, we would carry him regardless. As for the other 5, Berrian is the only one that can be assumed to have a spot locked up next year, and he's up for free agency. If Bradley doesn't come on this year we're going to need to find someone to play across from Berrian, or god forbid he leaves.

As for the QB position, I would prefer we sign/trade for a veteran like Chad Pennington and let him compete with Griese and Orton (assuming Grossman doesn't work out). Drafting a franchise QB would be nice but I just don't think it's a luxury we'll have this year. If Colt Brennan impresses he'll likely go too early, and if he doesn't I dont' think I'd want him. Henne, JDB, or Ryan would be fine in the 2nd, but none of them get me really excited either.

The notion that we would even have enough to trade up for Woodson seems very far fetched, unless you're thinking we only win 8-9 games this year, which I suppose isn't out of the question.
Yeah, Woodson will likely follow in the footsteps of Vince Young and LaMarcus Russell and go top 3-5 and Brohm will probably follow in the footsteps of Lienart and Quinn and fall top 10-15 range, or possibly lower.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 11:34 AM
We could keep 4 runningbacks, it's not that uncommon. Either way I have absolutely no confidence that Garrett Wolfe will ever be a contributor at runningback (maybe as a pass catcher out of the backfield) so this really only adds a more legit RB to the mix.

It was either that, a DT, or another OLB and I'm not ready to give up on Dusty and feel like we already have enough mid-round linebackers on the roster.
I wonder if Wolfe might be converted to WR, that would probably be a better fit for him. Then again, I could see him being a waste of a 3rd round pick and getting cut next season.

bearfan
09-16-2007, 06:42 PM
A win is a win, but I felt rather unimpressed today.

The offense:
Sure Benson had 100 yards, good for him, I thought he played a lot better than last week, and 4.0ypc is nice, but I wanna see him up near 4.5-5ypc.
Grossman..... UNIMPRESSED TO THE MAX. He is making short throws, makes his stats look good, but he still is making bad decisions. He doesnt do ANYTHING above and beyond, and hasnt up to this point in the season.
WRs I like, a few drops are ok.

Defense:
Played very well, not as fired up as last week, but still good. What hurts us is the quick throws, and the underneath throws for 6-8 yards.

ST:
DEVIN HESTER BABY. Holy *****, I seriously was jumping up and down on the couch watching him play. MVP of the game IMO.

bearsfan_51
09-16-2007, 06:46 PM
It was an ok win. Nothing impressive but they performed about how I expected (I actually said 20-10). I just don't know how long they are going to stick with Grossman. We're winning just enough to not bench him. I dunno...maybe Griese wouldn't be any better, but it's not like Grossman is giving us much now, or has for weeks. I'll give him the Dallas game, hopefully with a healthy Olsen, and if we lose it's time to make a change before the season gets out of hand.


And our runningbacks really need to learn how to pick up blitzes, it's hard to put the sacks on Grossman when he's getting blown up by the linebacker blitz.

Defense and Hester looked good, as always.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 06:53 PM
I don't call him bad Rex or good Rex, I call him Mediocre Rex.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 06:57 PM
It was an ok win. Nothing impressive but they performed about how I expected (I actually said 20-10). I just don't know how long they are going to stick with Grossman. We're winning just enough to not bench him. I dunno...maybe Griese wouldn't be any better, but it's not like Grossman is giving us much now, or has for weeks. I'll give him the Dallas game, hopefully with a healthy Olsen, and if we lose it's time to make a change before the season gets out of hand.


And our runningbacks really need to learn how to pick up blitzes, it's hard to put the sacks on Grossman when he's getting blown up by the linebacker blitz.

Defense and Hester looked good, as always.

This years Defense kicks ass big time. This years offense sucks ass. A lot of the play calling by Turner left me scratching my head, and taking out Benson every time he got into a rhythm just pissed me off.

bearsfan_51
09-16-2007, 07:21 PM
I had no problem with Turner, I actually liked the way they used both runningbacks.

The only real problem was the failure to adjust to the blitzing. They tried with the screen passes and what not, but largely failed.

SFbear
09-16-2007, 07:30 PM
You guys notice Benson has zero balance. He gets knicked in the shoulder and he goes into a full out belly flop. It could be because of the extra 10 lbs he put on. The oline could have done a better job run blocking.

Yeah our RBs definitely need to go back to school on blitz pickup.

I would have no problem if Devin Hester impregnated my future wife. Infact I would insist.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 07:32 PM
I hate that whenever we try a screen pass we fail miserably. However, whenever a team does a screen pass against us, it works beautifully.

Smokey Joe
09-16-2007, 07:33 PM
You guys notice Benson has zero balance. He gets knicked in the shoulder and he goes into a full out belly flop. It could be because of the extra 10 lbs he put on. The oline could have done a better job run blocking.

Yeah our RBs definitely need to go back to school on blitz pickup.

I would have no problem if Devin Hester impregnated my future wife. Infact I would insist.
Thie thing you are talking about Benson is because of his low running still. He just keeps his head down and goes.

bearsfan_51
09-16-2007, 07:35 PM
He reminds me of Sonic the Hedgehog. I half expect coins to come bursting out of him everytime he takes a hit.

In other news, Thomas Jones continues to struggle with the Jets. Looks like Chris Harris got picked on all day by the Texans as well.

Hurricane Ditka
09-16-2007, 07:46 PM
Dibs on a St Clair sig, that was epic.

sweetness34
09-16-2007, 07:54 PM
Impressed With:

- Benson's toughness. Got a bunch of yards after contact, and had some horrible run blocking today.

- Rex checking down. KC gave him nothing deep and he kept the passes short.

- Defense all the way around, awesome job.

- Gould as always

- Hester of course

- ST tackling and coverage

- Punting

Unimpressed With:

- Play calling on offense. There is no flow or rhythm with Turner. He doesn't know clock control either.

- 2 of Grossman's passes

- The hands of our WR's

- Dumb penalties

I'll give our team a B today. It would've been a D without the win. Didn't play that well, but we got the W and that's all that counts. Rex didn't play horrible, but he didn't play good either. WR's need to help him out too by catching balls in their hands. Moose dropped a gorgeous pass from Rex, and the next play Rex threw the pick. Davis and Peterson both dropped short passes. We need to pound the rock up the middle. Yes, run the ball outside on a toss once in a while but when Benson is eating up the middle, don't run him outside. Our run blocking needs to get better. Too many times Ced got hit in the backfield. Hester needs more plays on offense (reverses, screens, etc).

Lance, Urlacher, Harris, Tillman, Vasher, and Walker are studs. Like to see Wale and Anderson pick it up. Hillenmeyer solid as usual and Manning and Archuleta were great up in the secondary. Nothing special but made ZERO mistakes.

HUGE GAME on Sunday Night against the Cowgirls. GO BEARS!

bearsfan_51
09-16-2007, 09:15 PM
Hester needs no plays on offense. I never bought into him being useful this year..he's simply far too one-dimensional. Mark Bradley, on the other hand, needs to see the field on offense. Why Hester got a ball thrown towards him and Bradley didn't makes no sense to me.

Windy
09-16-2007, 11:11 PM
congrats on your victory.

love,

elton john

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/tv/us/img/site/17/59/0000001759_20060919151223.jpg

Bearsfan123
09-16-2007, 11:44 PM
Hester needs no plays on offense. I never bought into him being useful this year..he's simply far too one-dimensional. Mark Bradley, on the other hand, needs to see the field on offense. Why Hester got a ball thrown towards him and Bradley didn't makes no sense to me.


agreed on Bradley.

Anyone else feeling like Grossman and Berrian are out of touch on deep routes? They havent seemed to be in sync at all on those deep throws. Grossman has looked mediocre to bad through the first two games, now I want him to start looking decent to fine. I like that we arent trying to run up the gut every play. I am of the opinion that a healthy Olsen will improve our offense (at least in the passing department). Our O-line has looked old in the last two games. Benson looked pretty good this week, but im still not letting him off the hot seat. He needs to look as good against Dallas. When Grossman is not getting flattened hes looked okay, now we just have to stop him from getting flattened. (Maybe throw Gilmore in as an H-back?)

sweetness34
09-17-2007, 12:33 PM
Hester needs no plays on offense. I never bought into him being useful this year..he's simply far too one-dimensional. Mark Bradley, on the other hand, needs to see the field on offense. Why Hester got a ball thrown towards him and Bradley didn't makes no sense to me.

Yes he does. I realize that the return game is his #1 duty, but you need to get that guy the ball on offense. Give him a reverse or a WR screen early and if he breaks one, keep putting him on the field as a "dummy." Because defenses will be eyeing him all game long. You don't have to give him the ball but you could use him as a decoy.

bearsfan_51
09-17-2007, 12:41 PM
He only works as a decoy if teams think they will throw to him. You can only throw to him if you can create plays for him. You can only create plays for him if he learns to run more routes than just hitches and screens.

Hester has looked like a joke on offense every single time he's seen the field in the regular season (which granted isn't much). The two plays they ran yesterday ended with a ball going right through Hester's hands, and the defender almost intercepting it because it was obvious what they were trying to do (suprise suprise..another hitch pass).

You can't take a guy that's never been a real reciever in his life and throw him in there and expect defenses to respect him simply because he's a really good returner.

awfullyquiet
09-17-2007, 04:45 PM
Hester needs no plays on offense. I never bought into him being useful this year..he's simply far too one-dimensional. Mark Bradley, on the other hand, needs to see the field on offense. Why Hester got a ball thrown towards him and Bradley didn't makes no sense to me.

Definitely.

Somewhere in me, i can just see berrian running crappier routes, berrian can't react to the ball while it's in the air. at all, and it's frustrating... I also agree. i have NO idea what turner has been up to. the playcalling is a lot different than last year, alot less deep shots down field... and i wanted that in the SD game... i wanted them to expose the corners/safety early and often. instead we ran. and ran. and ran.

and the part that really suprised teams last year the most was that we were willing to throw... the fact that were not willing to throw and putting grossman on such a short leash i think is what is killing him. YES he will cause interceptions... I would rather him be 20TD's and 20INT's than 10TDs and 10INT's... our defense is good enough to recover from mistakes... when we hit the fifty yard line, it should go into tom brady mode and that is aim for the end zone right here right now from 60 to 30 out, all you do is aim aim aim for the deep ball, when grossman throws lots of TD's he throws less INTs. I know, that's a ridiculous thought, but when you get the guys confidence flowing with something he's good at (killing seam routes), and not that he's particuarly horrible at the short routes (although some of the flat routes to mckie (which i was very very very happy he was in the passing game this week) were off like crazy).

and his decision skills are lacking, yes. that's an obvious, they're not horrible, but they're not much worse than brett favre's ever were... some of the times he's trying to thread the ball and gets picked off, the receivers do nothing to play the ball. so. kick the WR's asses. Moose has been a non-target for both games. Granted he was stuck on ty law yesterday, but, i dunno. i can't tell what he's up to ever with the damn tv.

Hurricane Ditka
09-17-2007, 06:05 PM
I think we're all missing the point and that is the sleeping monster on offense known as John St Clair. Leading the team in TD receptions, I hope we see this monster catch a few more this season.

bearsfan_51
09-17-2007, 06:42 PM
I think we're all missing the point and that is the sleeping monster on offense known as John St Clair. Leading the team in TD receptions, I hope we see this monster catch a few more this season.

Yeah but teams will be keying in on him now that the secret is out.

bearsfan_51
09-17-2007, 06:45 PM
Definitely.

Somewhere in me, i can just see berrian running crappier routes, berrian can't react to the ball while it's in the air. at all, and it's frustrating... I also agree. i have NO idea what turner has been up to. the playcalling is a lot different than last year, alot less deep shots down field... and i wanted that in the SD game... i wanted them to expose the corners/safety early and often. instead we ran. and ran. and ran.

and the part that really suprised teams last year the most was that we were willing to throw... the fact that were not willing to throw and putting grossman on such a short leash i think is what is killing him. YES he will cause interceptions... I would rather him be 20TD's and 20INT's than 10TDs and 10INT's... our defense is good enough to recover from mistakes... when we hit the fifty yard line, it should go into tom brady mode and that is aim for the end zone right here right now from 60 to 30 out, all you do is aim aim aim for the deep ball, when grossman throws lots of TD's he throws less INTs. I know, that's a ridiculous thought, but when you get the guys confidence flowing with something he's good at (killing seam routes), and not that he's particuarly horrible at the short routes (although some of the flat routes to mckie (which i was very very very happy he was in the passing game this week) were off like crazy).

and his decision skills are lacking, yes. that's an obvious, they're not horrible, but they're not much worse than brett favre's ever were... some of the times he's trying to thread the ball and gets picked off, the receivers do nothing to play the ball. so. kick the WR's asses. Moose has been a non-target for both games. Granted he was stuck on ty law yesterday, but, i dunno. i can't tell what he's up to ever with the damn tv.
Watch the tape (or the game if you don't tape) they're blanketing the Berrian deep route. It's not that they aren't trying, it's that it's not there. The one time they did the Berrian deep route last week Grossman underthrew it and Berrian had three guys running with him.

They are daring Grossman to play smart and work his underneath routes, knowing that eventually he'll **** it up and throw an interception or two, or five.

I really don't know why more teams didn't do it last year.

bearfan
09-17-2007, 06:45 PM
Yeah but teams will be keying in on him now that the secret is out.

The question is: Who will be able to stop him? ;)

Hurricane Ditka
09-17-2007, 07:30 PM
I'd like to see the play-action used to open up the deep pass, the offense telegraphs every play.

Bearsfan123
09-17-2007, 11:29 PM
i think with the return of Olsen, our in the middle passing game will be better. With him and Clark running routes on passing plays I feel confident Grossman will get them the ball.

bearfan
09-18-2007, 06:20 AM
i think with the return of Olsen, our in the middle passing game will be better. With him and Clark running routes on passing plays I feel confident Grossman will get them the ball.

with all the short passes he makes, I agree 100%

Hurricane Ditka
09-18-2007, 10:42 AM
Why is Bradley our fifth wide receiver?

SFbear
09-18-2007, 11:20 AM
Why is Bradley our fifth wide receiver?

Because Lovie Smith is an offensive genius.

Bearsfan123
09-18-2007, 03:25 PM
Why is Bradley our fifth wide receiver?

Thats my question. Especially considering how good he has been in limited action his first two years. We need him on the field more than Davis IMO.

bearsfan_51
09-18-2007, 03:52 PM
I can think of two possible reasons...

1) They don't want to rely on someone that has been unreliable the last two years (though that doesn't stop them from dragging Mike Brown's carcass out every week).

2) They're set with Berrian-Moose as the flanker and WE and Bradley can't play the slot (where Davis is suited).

Either way, if Bradley can't at least get SOME playing time over Moose at this point in his career, it's all the more reason to think that we need to draft WR in the first 2-3 rounds next season.

robert_in_bigd
09-18-2007, 07:26 PM
Any chance in hell Tank Johnson can play Nose Tackle in a 3-4??

awfullyquiet
09-18-2007, 07:51 PM
Any chance in hell Tank Johnson can play Nose Tackle in a 3-4??

no.
he's not.
he won't.
he might play DE. but that's it.

Smokey Joe
09-20-2007, 10:08 PM
I'm officially gonna stay out of the NFC NORTH Discussion forum so I don't get banned. Lions/Packer/Viking fans just piss me off so much.

D-Unit
09-21-2007, 04:55 PM
I'm really looking forward to this game Sunday. It's a good litmus test to see how meaningful our 2-0 record really is. Being on the road, especially up in Chicago is going to be tough.

At least it's not the time of year yet when there's a lot of snow.


Keys to the Game
DAL Offense

1. Win the 3rd down conversion war. I'm guessing that there will be many 3rd downs for Dallas in this game. They must win that battle to have a chance at winning. The key is for Witten to be able to gain separation from CHI LBs. Not an easy task.

2. Romo has to limit interceptions and hold onto the ball without having it knocked out of his hand. JJ and Barber are pretty good at holding onto the ball, but Romo can get careless. He can't force things to happen. He needs to play a smart, passive, and strategic game. I don't think an aggressive game plan is the way to go.

3. OL has to weather the storm. The DAL OL will be tested. They will face possibly the best front 7 in the NFC. They have to play cohesively and be on the same page. Also, silly offsides penalties and holding calls will kill momentum and field position.


DAL Defense
1. Contain Benson. DAL has a harder time defending bigger backs than smaller backs. The DL is weakened by the loss of Jason Ferguson, so the ILBs will have to shoot the gaps to stop Benson at the LOS. If Benson gets beyond that first line of defense, he'll be in the secondary and that can't happen to often.

2. Rattle Grossman. Grossman is pretty good at being mindful of throwing the ball away and has some elusiveness, but the defense has to hit constantly hit him even if they are not getting sacks. Once he gets rattled, he loses it. With Berrian being the only deep threat, we should be sending more corner and safety blitzes to get at Rexy boy.

3. DeMarcus Ware has to show up. The guy has been nearly non-existent 2 games into the season. He needs to be moved around and be mixed and matched and put into position to gain the best advantage he can gain over the opposition.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2007, 07:51 PM
lets be frank here... no. 1, the Bears front 7 is probably the best in the whole NFL, not just the NFC.

no. 2, this years B defense is sick as hell even without Mike Brown and Dusty D.

no. 3, if Dallas wins this game, it will be by rattling grossman and getting turnovers. As we have seen throughout the first two weeks, trying to score against this Bears D and actually going into end zone seems nearly impossible. However, if the offense can't hold onto the ball and keeps putting the defense out there on a short field, it is very possible to put up points against D.

no. 4, the only way you beat this team on special teams is if you get a lucky ass hop that hits one of the punt return players in the back when they're block. Robbie Gould, Devin Hester, Brandon Ayanbadejo... good luck!

I want the Bears to win, but the offense is pretty damn bad. We need a BIG game out of Benson and the line, and non-suckage out of Grossman.

Should be a good game.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2007, 09:54 PM
D-Unit's analysis > Smokey's analysis

D-Unit
09-22-2007, 02:33 AM
D-Unit's analysis > Smokey's analysis
Wow, this is new territory. A compliment from bearsfan_51?

Just for that, I'll give my thought on the keys for the game from CHI's perspective.

Offense
1. Terrence Newman will be making his season debut. If the Bears are smart they will try to test him early and often to see if he's rusty or if his injury still has an effect on his play. If they see signs of weakness and can have success throwing the ball his way, Dallas will have a long day ahead.

2. OL has to keep Rex's jersey clean. They have to prevent DAL from getting to Rex. The Tackles can be beaten, so they have to be sharp. They also need to be aware of the inside blitzes that Phillips has in his playbook (something Parcells rarely did).

3. Keep the DAL Defense off balance. DAL's strength is in the LB core and playing 8 or 9 in the box by bringing the safeties up. The DL is soft and the secondary's soft zone coverage can be easily torched. Chicago's game plan should be to give the ball to Benson to pound through DAL's first level of defense until they are forced to bring their safeties up. Then take deep shots downfield to Berrian. If they can keep the DAL D off balance by pounding the ball on the ground and then going deep, they should have success.

Defense
1. Stay off the field. If the CHI D can make quick work and force 3 and outs for the Cowboys, their offense will win the time of possession battle and that would be a better game plan for the CHI offense than trying to win a shootout. How do they do that? CHI needs to double team TO and Urlacher needs to contain Witten in the passing game. Witten is most often found open in the middle of the field. If he can't gain separation and be an outlet for Romo, DAL will have to make adjustments that they won't want to do. If Terry Glenn were on the field it would be a different story, but he is still out.

2. Keep the Barbarian in his cave. Marion Barber can swing the momentum and attitude of the offense in any single run. If he has success, he will force attention away from focusing on TO and Witten. That would give the advantage to the Cowboys.

3. Control the Red Zone. They cannot afford to give the Cowboys TDs in the red zone. If the Cowboys are forced to kick field goals all day and Marion Barber cannot gain ground in the red zone, then it shouldn't take too many points to beat the Boys. 17 points from Rex's offense should seal the deal.

thule
09-22-2007, 03:37 AM
My questions to D is....

Why throw at Newman when you know Reeves will be on the field?

Random Notes from me...

How much of a factor will be having Wade Wilson and Tank Johnson be for disecting some of the bears unknowns to other teams.

Dallas's gameplan to start the game will be to pass against 8 men in the box to open up the run. Our strength is our passing game....not many teams use the pass to open up the run.

The bears have a stingy defense....but Dallas has a productive offense...great matchup.

Everyone knows turnovers win ballgames. Look for it to be a factor in this game. Dallas leads the league with a +4 TO differential. Chicago has a -3...

Dallas has won the TOP in both of their wins. TOP is going to be big in this game as well...team with the freshest defense is going to pull it out in the end of the game.

This game is great....I can't f'n wait.

D-Unit
09-22-2007, 03:44 AM
My questions to D is....

Why throw at Newman when you know Reeves will be on the field?

Random Notes from me...

How much of a factor will be having Wade Wilson and Tank Johnson be for disecting some of the bears unknowns to other teams.

Dallas's gameplan to start the game will be to pass against 8 men in the box to open up the run. Our strength is our passing game....not many teams use the pass to open up the run.

The bears have a stingy defense....but Dallas has a productive offense...great matchup.

Everyone knows turnovers win ballgames. Look for it to be a factor in this game. Dallas leads the league with a +4 TO differential. Chicago has a -3...

Dallas has won the TOP in both of their wins. TOP is going to be big in this game as well...team with the freshest defense is going to pull it out in the end of the game.

This game is great....I can't f'n wait.
Throw to Newman because he should be rusty.

I wouldn't get carried away with Dallas' + turnover margin. Trent Green basically threw gifts last week. Dallas' D lacks playmakers. They are solid, but unspectacular. Always have been. They need to be lucky to get turnovers. They don't "create" turnovers. It takes a certain mentality that our guys just don't have. Only guy that might have it on D is Hamlin, who actually tries to strip the ball away. The rest of them are incapable or too young trying to figure out the game still.

thule
09-22-2007, 03:52 AM
Throw to Newman because he should be rusty.

I wouldn't get carried away with Dallas' + turnover margin. Trent Green basically threw gifts last week. Dallas' D lacks playmakers. They are solid, but unspectacular. Always have been. They need to be lucky to get turnovers. They don't "create" turnovers. It takes a certain mentality that our guys just don't have. Only guy that might have it on D is Hamlin, who actually tries to strip the ball away. The rest of them are incapable or too young trying to figure out the game still.

Lack of playmakers...ok maybe depending on which glasses you look through...I surely won't argue the point.

Although you talk about getting turnovers because of trent green. Last I checked Benson and Peterson had a handful of fumbles...a couple of which they simply just didn't hold onto the ball. Grossman has been good this year so far...he still tends to force throws. Trent Green is a winning QB because he gets the ball out quick. Grossman doesn't have the same pocket awareness that Green has. So I wouldn't be too worried to see a couple of gift opportunities come our way once again.

D-Unit
09-22-2007, 04:05 AM
Lack of playmakers...ok maybe depending on which glasses you look through...I surely won't argue the point.

Although you talk about getting turnovers because of trent green. Last I checked Benson and Peterson had a handful of fumbles...a couple of which they simply just didn't hold onto the ball. Grossman has been good this year so far...he still tends to force throws. Trent Green is a winning QB because he gets the ball out quick. Grossman doesn't have the same pocket awareness that Green has. So I wouldn't be too worried to see a couple of gift opportunities come our way once again.
...and I won't argue that a gift or two could come our way either. Mostly likely from Rex, is my guess.

thule
09-22-2007, 04:10 AM
...and I won't argue that a gift or two could come our way either. Mostly likely from Rex, is my guess.

I could also use the same arguement. Would you say that Chicago's defense has playmakers capable of causing TO's. I'm assuming your answer is yes....but yet they still have a -3 TO margin. We still are in favor no matter which team has more playmakers on defense. Facts are that we are favored at this point in TO differential regaurdless.

D-Unit
09-22-2007, 04:16 AM
I could also use the same arguement. Would you say that Chicago's defense has playmakers capable of causing TO's. I'm assuming your answer is yes....but yet they still have a -3 TO margin. We still are in favor no matter which team has more playmakers on defense. Facts are that we are favored at this point in TO differential regaurdless.
My answer would be yes, and I would also say that it's still early to start determining which D has more playmakers based off 2 weeks of play. Based off recent history and player attributes, I would have to give the Bears the advantage, even though I do love my Cowboys.

thule
09-22-2007, 04:20 AM
Everyone has been talking about special teams in this game.

I just find it funny all the talking the special teams players are doing...and how no offense or defensive players are talking.

Hester says it's football kick it to me and prove your better.

Keith Davis says I just want to hit Hester and show whos better.

Deon Anderson says...i'll be ready to play FB but I really just want to hit hester.

Bragging rights here....I give the edge to hester :P

Smokey Joe
09-22-2007, 09:31 AM
I could also use the same arguement. Would you say that Chicago's defense has playmakers capable of causing TO's. I'm assuming your answer is yes....but yet they still have a -3 TO margin. We still are in favor no matter which team has more playmakers on defense. Facts are that we are favored at this point in TO differential regaurdless.
we have a -3 turnover margin right now because the offense keeps giving the ball back to the other team via interceptions (3), fumbles (2), and the special teams muffed a punt.

Smokey Joe
09-22-2007, 09:32 AM
D-Unit's analysis > Smokey's analysis
It wasn't analysis, it was random thoughts and observations... jerk

:)

bearfan
09-22-2007, 09:46 AM
Yeah, Thule I think you are underrating the playmakers on the bears. Every single play if a guy is held up they are ripping at the ball, probably the best at this is Urlacher, and Tillman. The only ? in the secondary is Daniel Manning, and how he will do taking over for Brown, he did have an interception last week though *tipped*. And Hunter played very well against Gates, hopefully he will do the same w/ Witten

bearsfan_51
09-22-2007, 11:27 AM
Wade Wison will be too busy taking steroids to get his wang up to help the Cowboys with anything.

Is Newman going to play? I saw him listed as questionable.

toonsterwu
09-22-2007, 11:28 AM
Hi, my name is toonsterwu. I used to post quite a bit. What's going on ...

On a semi-serious note, glad to see Olsen back. While I wasn't gung ho about him as I thought he was more physical numbers (granted, Kyle Wright's inconsistency didn't help him, amongst other things), he does provide the possibility of a lot more looks, and will be curious to see what Ron Turner can do with it. We can go with 2 TE sets that will force serious attention now. Put him and Berrian on the same side ... and someone likely will find some space.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2007, 11:31 AM
Hi tooney.

Since you weren't around for the draft (at least I don't think you were) what was your general opinion? What would you have done with the 1st rounder?

toonsterwu
09-22-2007, 12:25 PM
Hi tooney.

Since you weren't around for the draft (at least I don't think you were) what was your general opinion? What would you have done with the 1st rounder?

uh I was around for the draft

stopped posting afterwards

i don't remember my initial thoughts after the draft ... i do know that I wasn't gung ho about it ... but that I liked it enough ...

I like the Olsen pick ... Bazuin I like personally but I didn't see a point there if we were planning on keeping the big three ... I remember wanting Mebane or Tank Tyler to provide some depth ... or someone like Quincy Black who they were rumored to really like if I remember correctly ... or someone like James Marten for the OL ... or a RB like Brandon Jackson or Lorenzo Booker

That said, I didn't hate the Bazuin pick ... as Alex Brown isn't going to be here long term ... Now, with Olsen and Bazuin as the top picks, I was fine with Wolfe and Okwo ... I might've, at that point in time, preferred someone like Antonio Pittman ... but Wolfe was understandable as he provided some tools Benson lacks ... and he wouldn't challenge Benson ... Okwo made the most sense of the remaining LB's ... I still might've liked adding an OL guy ... like a Doug Free ... but I can't complain ... there wasn't a DT guy that I loved enough to want here (not a huge Pitcock fan) ...

I was fine with Beekman ... solid player and solid value in the 4th ... there didn't seem to be a DT or OT that stood out ... maybe a gamble on Antonio Johnson would've been interesting ... or maybe a look at Ryan McBean ...

I really liked the Payne and Graham picks ... adds depth and picked up good, heady players ... the only reason I didn't love those picks is because I really liked Michael Coe ... McBride was fine in the 7th ... Brant was a "hey it's the 7th round ... don't really care ... " moments ...

all in all, I didn't hate the draft ... i didn't love the draft ... it was what it was in many respects ... and that's a decent draft filling holes ... with one high potential guy in Greg Olsen ... and the hope for overachievers in Bazuin/Wolfe/Beekman

so you are in Minny now huh?

D-Unit
09-22-2007, 12:47 PM
uh I was around for the draft

stopped posting afterwards

i don't remember my initial thoughts after the draft ... i do know that I wasn't gung ho about it ... but that I liked it enough ...

I like the Olsen pick ... Bazuin I like personally but I didn't see a point there if we were planning on keeping the big three ... I remember wanting Mebane or Tank Tyler to provide some depth ... or someone like Quincy Black who they were rumored to really like if I remember correctly ... or someone like James Marten for the OL ... or a RB like Brandon Jackson or Lorenzo Booker

That said, I didn't hate the Bazuin pick ... as Alex Brown isn't going to be here long term ... Now, with Olsen and Bazuin as the top picks, I was fine with Wolfe and Okwo ... I might've, at that point in time, preferred someone like Antonio Pittman ... but Wolfe was understandable as he provided some tools Benson lacks ... and he wouldn't challenge Benson ... Okwo made the most sense of the remaining LB's ... I still might've liked adding an OL guy ... like a Doug Free ... but I can't complain ... there wasn't a DT guy that I loved enough to want here (not a huge Pitcock fan) ...

I was fine with Beekman ... solid player and solid value in the 4th ... there didn't seem to be a DT or OT that stood out ... maybe a gamble on Antonio Johnson would've been interesting ... or maybe a look at Ryan McBean ...

I really liked the Payne and Graham picks ... adds depth and picked up good, heady players ... the only reason I didn't love those picks is because I really liked Michael Coe ... McBride was fine in the 7th ... Brant was a "hey it's the 7th round ... don't really care ... " moments ...

all in all, I didn't hate the draft ... i didn't love the draft ... it was what it was in many respects ... and that's a decent draft filling holes ... with one high potential guy in Greg Olsen ... and the hope for overachievers in Bazuin/Wolfe/Beekman

so you are in Minny now huh?
I thought the Cowboys did a good job of shoring up the depth along the OL with the pick ups of Marten (who I thought was one of the better RT prospects) and Free (a potential LT or OG). Nice to see Toonster had them in his thoughts. If one of them actually pans out, I would call that a success.

sweetness34
09-22-2007, 01:02 PM
toony! Welcome back buddy!

Should be a good game on Sunday, Soldier Field will be rockin' for that game. I was almost going to go, but the ticket deal fell through. My grandparents live in Texas and are huge Cowboy fans, they've been talking crap all week long, so some karma would be nice against Dallas on Sunda Night!

Bear Down Chicago Bears!

bearsfan_51
09-22-2007, 01:04 PM
so you are in Minny now huh?
Yup. The cold hasn't come yet but I dread it every day.

I have to think the Bazuin pick was added insurance if they traded Brown. After updating and overlooking the depth chart you've got to think Brown is gone for whatever they can get for him this offseason.

LonghornsLegend
09-22-2007, 04:33 PM
Im very excited about this game, huge stage, our offense vs the bears D, cant wait to see how some of the matchups measure up...Will Barber still be as effective and agressive? Will Romo be rattled and look like a rookie again or poised and calm?


On a side not I reallly love Bradley for you guys, and im looking forward to him staying healthy and seeing what he can do...I would welcome him on our team as our #2 anyday and his athleticism is incredible along with making things happen with the ball...


I think this game will be close, and hard hard fought, I would love to see barber get a 70/30 split of the carries because I think you guys will lock down JJ and he wont break any tackles, his speed will be nullified by your D, so we need Barber to use his vision and strength and see what he can open up for our passing game

bearfan
09-22-2007, 04:39 PM
On a side not I reallly love Bradley for you guys, and im looking forward to him staying healthy and seeing what he can do...I would welcome him on our team as our #2 anyday and his athleticism is incredible along with making things happen with the ball...




I wish the coaches thought the same thing....

toonsterwu
09-22-2007, 08:23 PM
Yup. The cold hasn't come yet but I dread it every day.

I have to think the Bazuin pick was added insurance if they traded Brown. After updating and overlooking the depth chart you've got to think Brown is gone for whatever they can get for him this offseason.

Hell ... I wouldn't be all that shocked that, if the Bears somehow had a huge need by week 6, that we try and flip Alex Brown to address that need.

That being said, if we have a huge need by week 6, something bad's happened. But yeah, I think Alex is gone this upcoming offseason. Bazuin was definitely insurance, but system wise, I really wonder if we could've wait to pick up our third DE next year ... I imagine that the front office knew at the draft (at least, from what I remember, this was the case) that Alex wasn't going anywhere. And the thing with Bazuin is ... I like him, but at best, he's a complementary end to a dominant guy, and probably better off as a wave end type.

Again, didn't hate the pick ... just didn't love it.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2007, 10:30 PM
No I didn't like it either. It was an arrogant pick that assumed we had no other needs. While the staff was high on Wolfe (apparently) and Brandon Jackson hasn't done much so far, I was hoping that we'd have taken him at #62 instead. He seems like a much more capable #2 back than Wolfe.

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 06:37 PM
No I didn't like it either. It was an arrogant pick that assumed we had no other needs. While the staff was high on Wolfe (apparently) and Brandon Jackson hasn't done much so far, I was hoping that we'd have taken him at #62 instead. He seems like a much more capable #2 back than Wolfe.

But ... then Cedric Benson might've been threatened!

In all honesty, I really felt that they did the Wolfe pick to complement Benson ... and because he's not going to threaten for a starting job, particularly not in Ron Turner's offense.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 09:59 PM
Honest to god we should cut Grossman. He's not going to be here next year anyway. ******* cut him, let Orton get the 2nd team reps, and move on. It's over. He's over. Jesus ******* christ almighty when is it enough?

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 10:03 PM
nice knowing ya Rex ... i've got to think the Brian Griese era is coming soon ... followed by the new QB from the draft era ... okay maybe Rex gets one more game to turn it around ... but eh ... I doubt it ...

pocketaces
09-23-2007, 10:08 PM
Honest to god we should cut Grossman. He's not going to be here next year anyway. ******* cut him, let Orton get the 2nd team reps, and move on. It's over. He's over. Jesus ******* christ almighty when is it enough?


Yeah everybody told you that last year too but all bear fans defended him. Anyway good game and GO BOYS! :)

princefielder28
09-23-2007, 10:09 PM
Honest to god we should cut Grossman. He's not going to be here next year anyway. ******* cut him, let Orton get the 2nd team reps, and move on. It's over. He's over. Jesus ******* christ almighty when is it enough?

2 game lead over Da Bears after 3 weeks!

lod01
09-23-2007, 10:10 PM
Put the sig back the way it has been for 6+ months.

Originally Posted by LOD01
Packers will easily win the division next year.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 10:14 PM
Put the sig back the way it has been for 6+ months.

Originally Posted by LOD01
Packers will easily win the division next year.



Put it in your own sig if you want. Haven't you been banned yet?

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 10:14 PM
Yeah everybody told you that last year too but all bear fans defended him. Anyway good game and GO BOYS! :)

Who the hell defended Grossman (other than Sweetnes...who defends everyone on the Bears).

GB12
09-23-2007, 10:16 PM
I didn't agree with it at the time or even now, but he does have a point. If you're going to have that all offseason you should stick with it and not pull out now that the Packers are playing well.

Bearsfan123
09-23-2007, 10:19 PM
We sucked in all phases today. Even Hester looked like ****. Boys played a good game and beat us.

Defense- Im severely disappointed outside the twenties. No rush on Romo for the most part, especially up the gut. Urlacher came there twice and it was pretty effective. Terrel Owens just dominated us. Rush D was solid in the beginning.

Offense- Looked okay. Then Grossman threw into triple coverage. Benson looked great at times but not very consistent running the ball. Plus he seems to be getting pulled WAY too much if hes going to be the man. I thought we were gonna start moving the ball better in the second half but beyond our first drive we sucked.

ST- Awful, Hester went from Jesus to pitiful in a week. Muffed two clean plays and then got stripped on another. Coverage was decent, but definately not as good as usual.

Overall: We sucked. Plain and simple. Grossman made a couple nice throws but I think we need to start planning for the future and looking for a Quarterback because throwing into triple coverage is a moronic move. Benson still looked only okay. I expect more from him. 3 yards a carry doesnt cut it. O-line looked better but the stunts still seem to perplex a vet line which is sad. D-line looked pretty bad. The injuries depending on how severe might kill us. Didnt get a good look at Olsen but im glad he caught a pass.

Bearsfan123
09-23-2007, 10:21 PM
Who the hell defended Grossman (other than Sweetnes...who defends everyone on the Bears).


i defended Grossman, and we need to man up and admit it. The Packers are outplaying us. Sad as it is, they have outplayed us by far on the offensive end. Defensively its only equal if not a smidge towards us.

lod01
09-23-2007, 10:22 PM
I didn't agree with it at the time or even now, but he does have a point. If you're going to have that all offseason you should stick with it and not pull out now that the Packers are playing well.

Exactly. I know my football which is why I made the statement.

Smokey Joe
09-23-2007, 10:22 PM
Adam Archuletta sucks ass.

Smokey Joe
09-23-2007, 10:24 PM
so does Grossman.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 10:26 PM
Exactly. I know my football which is why I made the statement.

You're a homer and you got lucky. I'm sure you were the same Packer fan that said you'd win the division last year too. Gimme a break. If you want me to admit you're right...sure..it looks like you'll end up being right (easily still seems a bit much but who knows). That said, why would I keep it in my sig all year long if I know I'll likely be wrong? That makes sense....

GB12
09-23-2007, 10:31 PM
You're a homer and you got lucky. I'm sure you were the same Packer fan that said you'd win the division last year too. Gimme a break. If you want me to admit you're right...sure..it looks like you'll end up being right (easily still seems a bit much but who knows). That said, why would I keep it in my sig all year long if I know I'll likely be wrong? That makes sense....

I think that's right, and I don't think it'll necessarily be easy. However you obviously put that into your sig to make him and Packer fans look bad. If we were say 0-3 there's no doubt you'd still have it there. Since we're doing well though you backed out like a *****. I wouldn't have expected that out of you, I thought you'd take it like a man.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 10:33 PM
I think that's right, and I don't think it'll necessarily be easy. However you obviously put that into your sig to make him and Packer fans look bad. If we were say 0-3 there's no doubt you'd still have it there. Since we're doing well though you backed out like a *****. I wouldn't have expected that out of you, I thought you'd take it like a man.
Haha...take what like a man? You realize this is the internet right?

I'll likely end up being wrong, he'll likely end up being right. I just said that. Why would I keep that in my sig though? You want to put that I said I was wrong in your sig, knock yourself out. If that's not manly enough for I guess I'll take my e-cred and go home.

Boston
09-23-2007, 10:36 PM
Haha...take what like a man? You realize this is the internet right?

I'll likely end up being wrong, he'll likely end up being right. I just said that. Why would I keep that in my sig though? You want to put that I said I was wrong in your sig, knock yourself out. If that's not manly enough for I guess I'll take my e-cred and go home.

At least switch Rex Grossman with Brett Favre.

Twiddler
09-23-2007, 10:39 PM
I must admit, I was fully looking forward to playing Rex Grossman twice this year. Oh well, guess we didn't have that luxury. Seriously though, how can you guys watch this as a successful team who has almost everything except a steady QB? Anyways, how do you guys think Griese will play assuming he takes over next week?

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 10:41 PM
If Griese doesn't take over next week....ugh...I don't even know.

I noticed that Benson was benched after he fumbled. I love how every position on this team is accountable except the QB.

bearfan
09-23-2007, 10:45 PM
ohh my lanta.

My analysis:

Offense: sucked because of grossman. He is NOT the QB of the future, and we need to move on. We cannot rely on him to do ANYTHING for the team, and he is more of a liability than anything else. So far in 3 games he hasnt done anything to win the games, and he has hurt us more than anything.

Benson played ok. nothing special, I thought his fumble was a bad call, but it was close.

WRs played OK, they dropped a lot of passes, but a lot of the drops were the ones where they went up for it, and we immediatly hit.

Defense:
I thought played pretty good. Romo is just amazing, we had him in our hands numerous times, and he just slipped out, and bought more time, so his WRs were wide open. And then everyone started to get injured, so the lapse at the end wasnt cause we played bad defense, we were missing Briggs, Vasher, Harris *though it was the last 5 minutes when it didnt matter*.

ST:
sucked. Hester tried to do to much, I said at the beginning of the game that he looked way to cocky.

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 10:46 PM
Well ... this has been a disappointing start to the year. As bad as Grossman has been, though, and I do expect him to be switched (and just to be clear ... i've never been a huge supporter of Rex ... i thought 2 years ago, Orton should've been given the opportunity down the stretch. Last year, I did prefer Rex, because at some point, you gotta see what you have, as Brian isn't the future). I think Griese can be alright ... but his decision making isn't always the best. To be honest, I really wouldn't mind a Shoopian offense at this point. Pound the ball with Benson and Peterson, with a few timely throws in the seams to the TE's, and an occasional bomb down the field.

But back on point. Where's the run game? I know a lot of people were clamoring for Benson ... so where's the run game? To be honest ... I thought Benson would be alright as well (I believe my exact words, during the ABC campaign of the spring of 2005) was that he was Anthony Thomas-plus. Does some fault like with the passing game? Sure. Does some lie with the OL? Sure. Does some lie with Ron Turner? Sure. But some of the onus is on Benson ... and this team was going to be run-oriented. So ... where is it?

It's a good thing we drafted Garrett "I'm not going to push Benson legitimately in this offense" Wolfe and have Adrian "not that one ... the guy with the commericals" Peterson as our backup RB's.

To be honest, if we are a mess by week 6 (meaning, say, 1-5 or 2-4 perhaps), I'd make a couple spare part deals to try and get picks. Something like Alex Brown could likely bring a decent in-season bounty ... and perhaps Desmond Clark could as well.

Granted, i hope we are doing well by that point, because this team does have the talent to do damage in the NFC (granted, i didn't pick us for SB this year).

Smokey Joe
09-23-2007, 10:52 PM
I can't say I disagree with tooney at all. They seem to take out Benson after every couple of runs, and I don't get it. Like the first 2 plays, Benson gets 18 yards on 2 runs. Then, he gets replaced by Adrian Peterson and Benson disappears for a quarter. How do you expect him to get into any type of rhythm?

Smokey Joe
09-23-2007, 10:55 PM
If Griese doesn't take over next week....ugh...I don't even know.

I noticed that Benson was benched after he fumbled. I love how every position on this team is accountable except the QB.
Watch, Grossman will play vs. the Lions and light it up against the piss poor Lions D, and then the org. will say Grossman is fine and garbage like that until he starts to suck vs. real defenses once again.

Also, it seemed to me that Benson was pretty muched benched the whole game. Not technically, but they never just let Benson stay in there and play. Lovie has some sort of stupid *** ass man crush on Adrian Peterson.

Bearsfan123
09-23-2007, 11:02 PM
Maybe its because he cant pass protect? I remember last game against the Chiefs he let a Lber go right by him and blast Grossman for a sack. Unfortunately, we need to see what he can do, so that requires Lovie to leave him in, but someone needs to tell Lovie that.

Grossman has no more time. He needs to be let go, I supported him, but he hasnt limited his mistakes when hes had time let alone work under pressure. He stared down Moose today in horrible fashion on his triple coverage pick. This team needs to move on.

On the positive note, we have now entered the Brian Brohm, Andre Woodson, Sam Baker, Jake Long race...wait thats not good news....

bearfan
09-23-2007, 11:06 PM
if we do enter that race, I would take OL 1st round. Then JDB, Ryan or Ainge 2nd round, and then Marcus Monk or another OL in the 3rd round.

I mean, I dont want to think like that, but its definantly a possibility because our offense cant do squat

Bearsfan123
09-23-2007, 11:09 PM
if we do enter that race, I would take OL 1st round. Then JDB, Ryan or Ainge 2nd round, and then Marcus Monk or another OL in the 3rd round.

I mean, I dont want to think like that, but its definantly a possibility because our offense cant do squat

Yeah thats what I was thinking. But do we really want to bring in another young QB? Is there anybody in FA who could do a good job?

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 11:09 PM
In terms of drafting a QB - I'd wait. I don't trust this coaching staff to develop a toolsy young QB right now ... and the 2nd tier of QB's are strong. I'd wait till the 2nd or 3rd round to find one. Maybe a JD Booty. Heck ... we might finid a toolsy QB in those rounds as well.

I think OL has to be an early consideration next year ... or once ... no matter what. I think, depending on how Benson does this year, RB may be a day 1 consideration. I'd make safety a consideration as well ... as I'm tired of Archuleta already ... and Mike Brown is done. I'm fine with giving Danieal Manning time at one spot ... and maybe Keith Payne develops at the other, but finding another guy to be in the mix should be the priority.

Bearsfan123
09-23-2007, 11:12 PM
In terms of drafting a QB - I'd wait. I don't trust this coaching staff to develop a toolsy young QB right now ... and the 2nd tier of QB's are strong. I'd wait till the 2nd or 3rd round to find one. Maybe a JD Booty. Heck ... we might finid a toolsy QB in those rounds as well.

I think OL has to be an early consideration next year ... or once ... no matter what. I think, depending on how Benson does this year, RB may be a day 1 consideration. I'd make safety a consideration as well ... as I'm tired of Archuleta already ... and Mike Brown is done. I'm fine with giving Danieal Manning time at one spot ... and maybe Keith Payne develops at the other, but finding another guy to be in the mix should be the priority.


Dont forget that if this team drafts a QB in the first round the fans instantly dub him the "savior of the franchise" and crush him with pressure until his head splits ^_^

bearfan
09-23-2007, 11:16 PM
Dont forget that if this team drafts a QB in the first round the fans instantly dub him the "savior of the franchise" and crush him with pressure until his head splits ^_^

JDB plays at USC, I think he can handle it ;)

Bearsfan123
09-23-2007, 11:20 PM
JDB plays at USC, I think he can handle it ;)

I didnt think i could laugh tonight, but somehow you pulled it off. Thank you.

SFbear
09-23-2007, 11:27 PM
Anybody think we get a new OC next year or does Turner get another chance with a new QB?

DaBears9654
09-23-2007, 11:32 PM
In terms of drafting a QB - I'd wait. I don't trust this coaching staff to develop a toolsy young QB right now ... and the 2nd tier of QB's are strong. I'd wait till the 2nd or 3rd round to find one. Maybe a JD Booty. Heck ... we might finid a toolsy QB in those rounds as well.

I think OL has to be an early consideration next year ... or once ... no matter what. I think, depending on how Benson does this year, RB may be a day 1 consideration. I'd make safety a consideration as well ... as I'm tired of Archuleta already ... and Mike Brown is done. I'm fine with giving Danieal Manning time at one spot ... and maybe Keith Payne develops at the other, but finding another guy to be in the mix should be the priority.
Actually, his first name's Kevin but whatever. This is coming from some1 named Justin who's been called Jason countless times (probably quad-digit) before.

Back to the real point. I think if Grossman continues to play like this (which I'm finding more likely every week), drafting a QB at some point next year is a very real possibility.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 11:35 PM
I actually think Archuleta is having a solid year so far. Maybe I'm watching different games.

Geo
09-23-2007, 11:37 PM
I can't say I disagree with tooney at all. They seem to take out Benson after every couple of runs, and I don't get it. Like the first 2 plays, Benson gets 18 yards on 2 runs. Then, he gets replaced by Adrian Peterson and Benson disappears for a quarter. How do you expect him to get into any type of rhythm?
Good question. I'm actually worried about the opposite with Joseph Addai and the workload the Colts are giving him.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2007, 11:39 PM
On the positive note, we have now entered the Brian Brohm, Andre Woodson, Sam Baker, Jake Long race...wait thats not good news....
I've been wrong plenty of times already, but I would be VERY suprised if we picked in the top 10. I still think the absolute worst this team can do is 8-8. Although negative momentum and injuries can sink any ship I suppose.

As for QB's..if we're picking in the 15-25 range, I take Matt Ryan. Toonster is right that there are decent QB's available in the 2nd round, and that may be more prudent, but I'm not feeling very prudent right now.

Smokey Joe
09-23-2007, 11:47 PM
This season has **** written all over it. A la 04. Just a bunch of defensive injuries that hurt us a ton of defense, and poor QB/Offense/Coordinator. I like to think this team will still make the playoffs and such, but I can definitely see this team just implode and pick in the top 10.

Also, Archuletta had a decent first two games, but today he sucked dung.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-23-2007, 11:50 PM
I am all for tanking if we're only going to win 8 games. I know that sounds bad, but I have been somewhat of a Rex defender, but tonight was just too much.

Did anyone else just laugh out loud at the Griese chants?

With that said if we're looking for a back early next year say 2nd round - Rashard Mendenhall. Local kid who has put up some mind boggling #s in the B10 last year and through the first 3 games this season & somehow he is still going unnoticed by most people. (That is if he declares he's only a Junior)

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 11:51 PM
Anybody think we get a new OC next year or does Turner get another chance with a new QB?

He probably gets another chance ... because the other question to ask is ... who? Inside the organization, I don't see anyone. Perhaps outside, but my thought on who are options is a bit limited these days. I forget who our QB coach is right now, but perhaps making a switch there would be the scapegoat option.

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 11:51 PM
Actually, his first name's Kevin but whatever. This is coming from some1 named Justin who's been called Jason countless times (probably quad-digit) before.

Back to the real point. I think if Grossman continues to play like this (which I'm finding more likely every week), drafting a QB at some point next year is a very real possibility.

ah yes ... you are right. Keith is UVA's big RB.

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 11:53 PM
This season has **** written all over it. A la 04. Just a bunch of defensive injuries that hurt us a ton of defense, and poor QB/Offense/Coordinator. I like to think this team will still make the playoffs and such, but I can definitely see this team just implode and pick in the top 10.

Also, Archuletta had a decent first two games, but today he sucked dung.

I haven't seen enough to make a fair judgement, but I just think, of what I've seen, that Archuleta is still the same 1-dimensional (if that can be said for a safety) player that I saw with the Skins last year.

Smokey Joe
09-23-2007, 11:53 PM
He probably gets another chance ... because the other question to ask is ... who? Inside the organization, I don't see anyone. Perhaps outside, but my thought on who are options is a bit limited these days. I forget who our QB coach is right now, but perhaps making a switch there would be the scapegoat option.
That would be Pep Hamilton...

Geo
09-23-2007, 11:55 PM
Did anyone else just laugh out loud at the Griese chants?
I cringed, actually.

With that said if we're looking for a back early next year say 2nd round - Rashard Mendenhall. Local kid who has put up some mind boggling #s in the B10 last year and through the first 3 games this season & somehow he is still going unnoticed by most people. (That is if he declares he's only a Junior)
There's some very good RB talent to be had in the 08 Draft after the 1st round, I think.

Hurricane Ditka
09-23-2007, 11:55 PM
Our next draftee QB better be a big SOB. Chicago needs a Rothelsburger type quarterback.

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 11:56 PM
I've been wrong plenty of times already, but I would be VERY suprised if we picked in the top 10. I still think the absolute worst this team can do is 8-8. Although negative momentum and injuries can sink any ship I suppose.

As for QB's..if we're picking in the 15-25 range, I take Matt Ryan. Toonster is right that there are decent QB's available in the 2nd round, and that may be more prudent, but I'm not feeling very prudent right now.

My preference is still going OT, but I've been saying that for awhile.

On a side note, if we are picking top 10, I'd try for Kenny Phillips, as I think he's too good to pass up, and match him up with Danieal Manning back there.

If we are picking in the top 5 ... I'd make a push for McFadden, even with Benson. If McFadden's gone, then my guess is that they'd go with Long, although I'd probably prefer Baker still. Although ... Ryan Clady is the guy I really like ... and Gosder Cherilus seems like the type of OL guy they'd take.

ALthough, as I type this, I'd also say that, if we are in the 6-10 range .. I'd try dealing down. Actually, I'd deal down before Kenny Phillips.

toonsterwu
09-23-2007, 11:59 PM
I am all for tanking if we're only going to win 8 games. I know that sounds bad, but I have been somewhat of a Rex defender, but tonight was just too much.

Did anyone else just laugh out loud at the Griese chants?

With that said if we're looking for a back early next year say 2nd round - Rashard Mendenhall. Local kid who has put up some mind boggling #s in the B10 last year and through the first 3 games this season & somehow he is still going unnoticed by most people. (That is if he declares he's only a Junior)

Mendenhall is quite interesting. Rumored mid-4.4 speed to go with a solid frame. Is he worth it in the 2nd? It'll be something to watch, as this senior RB class sucks. As of now, I'd probably lean no, as someone like James Davis (if he came out) might be in the 2nd round, and I like Davis better than Mendenhall.

Either way, the one thing we need to do is draft someone to challenge Benson ... which Wolfe simply isn't going to do.

VoteLynnSwan
09-24-2007, 12:20 AM
Our next draftee QB better be a big SOB. Chicago needs a Rothelsburger type quarterback.

I'd love to see someone with some athletic ability as well... Andre Woodson would be perfect i think, I also don't think we'll be picking high enough to get him though.

Hurricane Ditka
09-24-2007, 12:28 AM
I'd love to see a guy that can see over the offensive line. With the makeup of this team I think a guy like Matt Ryan would be the way to go. Looking at our schedule I see about an 8-8 with this level of play. Depending on where we pick, we have some of the ammunition to move up a few slots if theres a guy we think is worth it. Using Alex Brown, and the third rounders as possible deal makers.

SFbear
09-24-2007, 01:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PrOu-YBv0

RockJock07
09-24-2007, 01:37 AM
I'm not a bears fan, but here is an outside view. Forget Rex for a moment, the bigger problem now is the injuries mounting on the Defense. Losing Harris for anytime is a big blow to run defense which makes urlacher less effective. Tillman looked pretty good tonight, but if Vasher miss time, then Ricky manning has to move up, which he is way better as a nickle anyways.

But everyone knows the Bears OL is old and has no real depth, that could make putting Rex or anyone else at QB a non-issue. KC got after him last week and Dallas did more of the same tonight.

I don't really care for the Cowboys but they attacked the one spot in the Cover 2 that can be exposed, middle of the field 15-20 yards. TO just ran wild on crossing routes in that area and no one seem to pay any attention to him.

HAving family in the area, I know there aren;t alot of people on the fence about rex. You guys have the Lions next week, a team Rex needs to light up or i think you guys might have another starting QB in for the Packers. Lovie stayed with him last year, but this year they aren't winning and they look completely unfocused on offense. It will be interesting to see what happens.

D-Unit
09-24-2007, 04:11 AM
Good game guys. My attitude going into the game was to see how good the Cowboys really are. Your team will still get far with your defense and running game. Not real sure why the Bears got away from the running game after having early success. I also don't know why the Bears didn't try to mix up different types of running plays. It seemed like you ran one run play all night... straight up the middle. I'm probably wrong, but it sure seemed that way.

Don't get too discouraged. This top 10 draft talk sounds very premature. A win against Detroit next week will lift your spirits right back up.

From an outsiders point of view, Rex was bad, but the WRs were bad too. Muhsin's age is showing. Berrian is a one trick pony. What's wrong with Mark Bradley? Why can't he get on the field? I think the route running of your receivers are below average. It seemed they had a hard time gaining separation... either that or were constantly running in double or triple coverage making it look like Rex was screwing up. I mean he was, but... his targets were poor and when they were open, those drops were costly.

bearfan
09-24-2007, 06:27 AM
D, thanks for the encouraging words, but if you have seen the way the offense has played over the past 3 weeks, you can see why we are talking like this. We have no QB, unless Griese can lead us. Our run game isnt great, I think benson has around 150 rushing yards in 3 games, with 2 fumbles. I like our recievers, and then our OL is aging.

Our defense, and ST are good, but they dont seem like they will be able to carry us like they did last year. They will get us good field goal position, but thats about it, and w/ a bad offense like ours, we arent going to be able to do much.

And we know better w/ the Lions. If we beat them (and we should), we know its the lions, and I dont think it can get our spirits up to much.

bigbluedefense
09-24-2007, 11:13 AM
Hey guys, I usually don't break down Bears games, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents if you don't mind.

- First and foremost, Grossman has got to go. He's horrible. No pocket presence, he can't make 2 reads, he's inaccurate at times, just let him go. He's horrible. All you need is a busdriver, and he can't even do that. Its time to move on.

- Benson is a back that needs 30 carries. He's not proving his worth because you have no pass game to keep defenses honest, but here's my issue with him. He's eerily similar to Ron Dayne. For a bruiser, he goes down way too easy. Instead of delivering the blow someitmes, he just falls to the floor. Whats up with that?

- This defense got much better at run support with Arch, but as you seen, you'll take a hit in the pass game with him too. Its a fine line. You want elite coverage, your run defense will take a hit later in the year because that smaller SS won't hold up. If you get a bigger SS who can deliver in the run game all year, you'll take a hit in the pass game.

- I feel this defense can be much better if they don't run so much Cover 2. I know i know, i sound like Im hating. But Im not, just hear me out. If they went out and got an elite man coverage CB, and used a mix of man and zone opposed to a heavily zone dependent scheme, they would be better. That front 7 is sick, and isn't the typical traditional Cover 2 front. The problem is you guys don't have anyone who can man up against elite WRs all game so that forces you to run so much zone.

And you saw what Dallas did to take advantage of it. They attacked the 2 deep safety shell all game. They sent deep posts, quick slants, or crossing patterns with both Witten and TO on one side all game, and kept splitting the 2 safeties with it. And they primarily attacked Arch's side. Now if you had a shutdown CB, you couldve done something about it. But having CBs who can't cover TO forced you into too much zone, and they just picked it apart. Chicago shouldve just put Urlacher man up with Witten, and doubled up TO with man coverage. I don't get why they didn't do that.

- The main issues are on offense though. Berrian is not stepping up this year, Mushin looks like he's toast, and the run game has no game changer/big play threat. And of course, the qb is crap. I think Griese could turn this thing around, but it has to be done sooner than later.

TitleTown088
09-24-2007, 12:07 PM
My preference is still going OT, but I've been saying that for awhile.

On a side note, if we are picking top 10, I'd try for Kenny Phillips, as I think he's too good to pass up, and match him up with Danieal Manning back there.

If we are picking in the top 5 ... I'd make a push for McFadden, even with Benson. If McFadden's gone, then my guess is that they'd go with Long, although I'd probably prefer Baker still. Although ... Ryan Clady is the guy I really like ... and Gosder Cherilus seems like the type of OL guy they'd take.

ALthough, as I type this, I'd also say that, if we are in the 6-10 range .. I'd try dealing down. Actually, I'd deal down before Kenny Phillips.


I dont think the Bears Bears pick in the top 10. They are still a good team that just hasnt been able to put it together and has battled injuries and such. I still have a hard time writing them off as favorites for the norris. Who is going to win it? Da Vikings? Lions? Of course the "favorites" are the Packers because they undefeated, but they can't run the damn ball and arn't going to be able to pass it every sunday. I guess well just have to wait and see what happens. But for now i'll slate them in at 20 to 14 range.

SFbear
09-24-2007, 01:19 PM
Hey guys, I usually don't break down Bears games, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents if you don't mind.

- First and foremost, Grossman has got to go. He's horrible. No pocket presence, he can't make 2 reads, he's inaccurate at times, just let him go. He's horrible. All you need is a busdriver, and he can't even do that. Its time to move on.

- Benson is a back that needs 30 carries. He's not proving his worth because you have no pass game to keep defenses honest, but here's my issue with him. He's eerily similar to Ron Dayne. For a bruiser, he goes down way too easy. Instead of delivering the blow someitmes, he just falls to the floor. Whats up with that?

- This defense got much better at run support with Arch, but as you seen, you'll take a hit in the pass game with him too. Its a fine line. You want elite coverage, your run defense will take a hit later in the year because that smaller SS won't hold up. If you get a bigger SS who can deliver in the run game all year, you'll take a hit in the pass game.

- I feel this defense can be much better if they don't run so much Cover 2. I know i know, i sound like Im hating. But Im not, just hear me out. If they went out and got an elite man coverage CB, and used a mix of man and zone opposed to a heavily zone dependent scheme, they would be better. That front 7 is sick, and isn't the typical traditional Cover 2 front. The problem is you guys don't have anyone who can man up against elite WRs all game so that forces you to run so much zone.

And you saw what Dallas did to take advantage of it. They attacked the 2 deep safety shell all game. They sent deep posts, quick slants, or crossing patterns with both Witten and TO on one side all game, and kept splitting the 2 safeties with it. And they primarily attacked Arch's side. Now if you had a shutdown CB, you couldve done something about it. But having CBs who can't cover TO forced you into too much zone, and they just picked it apart. Chicago shouldve just put Urlacher man up with Witten, and doubled up TO with man coverage. I don't get why they didn't do that.

- The main issues are on offense though. Berrian is not stepping up this year, Mushin looks like he's toast, and the run game has no game changer/big play threat. And of course, the qb is crap. I think Griese could turn this thing around, but it has to be done sooner than later.

I agree with your assesment of the D. We were absolutely suffocating on D on the first two downs when we brought Archuletta up to the box and let the corners play one on one with single safety over the top. But then on third and long we would drop back into the cover two zone and let Dallas gash us with crossing patterns and deep posts. I think a big part of Dallas being so successful on third down is Romo's remarkable pocket presence and mobility. The Bears D-line was having a party in the backfield but they jsut couldn't get their hands on Romo before he could get a pass off to TO or Witten in the soft spots of the zone. The Dline has to get their hands on the QB inorder for the zone to be succesful. A low mobility QB would have been absolutely mauled in that game so props to Romo.

Finding a shut-down CB is a lot easier said than done especially one that can be put on an island with TO. Clearly we have bigger needs on Offense. Our gameplan would have worked if our D-line could have just gotten to Romo sooner.

Honestly when we have an offense that does everything in their power to hurt this team and put the D in bad position, I just don't have enough frustration left over to complain about the defensive scheming. You could tell the D gave up hope of winning the game as soon as Dallas scored 17 points.

bearsfan_51
09-24-2007, 02:52 PM
Looking at it objectively I tend to agree with HDitka, this is a 7-9 win team unless things change dramatically. If there are serious injuries on defense it could get even worse, but at this point there's no need to speculate too much. Toonster...please don't even start talking about getting McFadden. If we're picking in the top 5 again I might not even be able to watch football for the rest of the season.

Let's assume for a second we're picking at #16. Here's my brief mock of who I think may be picking ahead of us and who they would be looking at.

1)Bills - Jake Long. They might go QB, but I'd lean O-line.
2)Raiders- McFadden. If I was the Raiders I'd actually go for Dorsey, as I think they have bigger problems on defense, but I don't think that's what they'll do.
3)Falcons- Brohm. Seems obvious, which means it likely won't happen.
4)Dolphins- Dorsey. That D-line is old as sin.
5)Cowboys (via Browns)- Kenny Phillips. Secondary is terrible.
6)Giants- Calais Campbell- Top prospect, replaces Strahan.
7)Rams- Sam Baker. Assuming that Pace is done.
8)Saints- Dan Conner. They need linebackers dearly.
9)Vikings- Andre Woodson. Tavaris Jackson sucks.
10)Chiefs- Ryan Clady. O-line help.
11)Cardinals- Chris Long. Hustle guy...might help transition to the 3-4.
12)Jets- Desean Jackson. Clemmens needs weapons.
13)Detroit- Derrick Harvey. Lots of holes on this defense, but a legit pass rusher is needed for Marinelli's offense. Kalimba Edwards doens't cut it. "The Animal" would be a good fit here too.
14)Cincy- Sedrick Ellis. Beastly.
15)Tennessee- Steve Slaton. It's not that I don't like Lendale, it's that I think he works better in tandom. With he, Slaton, and Young they can run the ball down people's throats.
16)Chicago- Matt Ryan. He can actually see over the offensive lineman!! Of course Lovie will probably push for another D-lineman.
17)Washington- Gosder Cherilus. It seems that Jansen can never stay healthy, and as long as Gibbs is there they'll need some big hog-mollys.
18)Houston- Limas Sweed. This is turning out to be a good team. But they need another WR across from Johnson. Why not bring in another Texan?
19)Broncos- Keith Rivers- the offense probably needs more help than the defense, but there isn't much available at this point.
20)New England (from San Fran)- James Laurinaitis- Some punishment eh?
21)Tampa Bay- Frank Okam. The defense is actually playing at a high level but they're getting older and are relatively easy to run on.
22)Carolina- Malcolm Jenkins- Their secondary needs all the help it can get.
23)Jacksonville- Colt Brennan. I don't know what to make of the Jaguars, or Brennan. This probably won't happen, but that defense is too good for a mediocre QB.
24)Philadelphia- Quentin Groves. He'd be a great value here. Javon Kearse and Darren Howard have never fully earned their paychecks.
25)San Diego- Antonine Cason. This secondary needs help.
26)Baltimore- Tommy Blake. See Scott's comments.
27)Seattle- John Carlson. Makes sense here for a lot of reasons.
28)Green Bay- Aqib Talib. They need youth and depth at the corner position.
29)San Fran- Earley Doucet. Another target for Alex Smith to not throw to.
30)Pittsburgh- Barry Richardson- Big Mauler type for the RT position.
31)Dallas- Terrell Thomas. Plays the nickel for now, but could challenge Henry.



Ryan appears to be the #3 QB of choice, and I don't see anyone pushing up to get him, though if he has a good combine/workouts, or someone else does, this is a QB heavy class so I expect 3 to be gone by the mid 1st (ala two years ago).

Hopefully Clady comes out, and that other junior OT too (can't remember his name).

Although things aren't looking so bright now...at least the draft is heavy in QB's and OT's. Something we need.

bearfan
09-24-2007, 06:10 PM
yeah, or if we wanted to go OL in the 1st. I have a huge man crush on Eric Ainge, he is 6'5 I think, nice accuracy and all. I would be happy w/ just about anyone right now.

So
1st: QB
2nd: OL
3rd: Wr/OL/RB
*I like that 3 round mock where we got Tashard Choice in the 3rd

Vince Lombardi
09-24-2007, 07:43 PM
Wow you guys are already resigning yourselves to a top 5 pick? I just don't see it with this schedule. With the Lions & Vikings twice still and struggling Raiders, Giants, and Saints teams I would expect 8-8 at worst. And with several other very winnable games you could very easily have a winning record. You lost to two very good teams, the rest of your schedule is extremely favorable though. Overreact much? lol

http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/chargers.gif 9/9 @ SAN DIEGO L 3-14 (http://www.chicagobears.com/gameday/gamecenter.asp?game_id=99&game_week=)
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/chiefs.gif 9/16 VS. KANSAS CITY W 20-10 (http://www.chicagobears.com/gameday/gamecenter.asp?game_id=101&game_week=)
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/cowboys.gif 9/23 VS. DALLAS L 10-34 (http://www.chicagobears.com/gameday/gamecenter.asp?game_id=102&game_week=)
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/lions.gif 9/30 @ LIONS, Noon
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/packers.gif 10/7 @ PACKERS, 7:15 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/vikings.gif 10/14 VS. VIKINGS, Noon
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/eagles.gif 10/21 @ EAGLES, 3:15 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/lions.gif 10/28 VS. LIONS, Noon
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/raiders.gif 11/11 @ RAIDERS, 3:15 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/seahawks.gif 11/18 @ SEAHAWKS, 7:15 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/broncos.gif 11/25 VS. BRONCOS, Noon
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/giants.gif 12/2 VS. GIANTS, 3:15 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/redskins.gif 12/6 @ REDSKINS, 7:15 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/vikings.gif 12/17 @ VIKINGS, 7:30 PM
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/packers.gif 12/23 VS. PACKERS, Noon
http://assets.chicagobears.com/images/side_schedule/saints.gif 12/30 VS. SAINTS, Noon

Hurricane Ditka
09-24-2007, 07:48 PM
I think we'll be picking somewhere around 14-18, finishing with around 7-9 wins, we might have to throw in one of our thirds and Alex Brown to move in a better spot to get a guy like Ryan. We're in a similar position to the Broncos 2 years ago, only Grossman's hasn't been around as long or at times even been as good as Plummer at times. I think bringing in a guy like Matt Ryan, and easing him into the job next year, so he's game manager ready by '09 is our most legitimate shot, considering the pieces we already have in place.

Smokey Joe
09-24-2007, 08:04 PM
Looking at it objectively I tend to agree with HDitka, this is a 7-9 win team unless things change dramatically. If there are serious injuries on defense it could get even worse, but at this point there's no need to speculate too much. Toonster...please don't even start talking about getting McFadden. If we're picking in the top 5 again I might not even be able to watch football for the rest of the season.

Let's assume for a second we're picking at #16. Here's my brief mock of who I think may be picking ahead of us and who they would be looking at.

1)Bills - Jake Long. They might go QB, but I'd lean O-line.
2)Raiders- McFadden. If I was the Raiders I'd actually go for Dorsey, as I think they have bigger problems on defense, but I don't think that's what they'll do.
3)Falcons- Brohm. Seems obvious, which means it likely won't happen.
4)Dolphins- Dorsey. That D-line is old as sin.
5)Cowboys (via Browns)- Kenny Phillips. Secondary is terrible.
6)Giants- Calais Campbell- Top prospect, replaces Strahan.
7)Rams- Sam Baker. Assuming that Pace is done.
8)Saints- Dan Conner. They need linebackers dearly.
9)Vikings- Andre Woodson. Tavaris Jackson sucks.
10)Chiefs- Ryan Clady. O-line help.
11)Cardinals- Chris Long. Hustle guy...might help transition to the 3-4.
12)Jets- Desean Jackson. Clemmens needs weapons.
13)Detroit- Derrick Harvey. Lots of holes on this defense, but a legit pass rusher is needed for Marinelli's offense. Kalimba Edwards doens't cut it. "The Animal" would be a good fit here too.
14)Cincy- Sedrick Ellis. Beastly.
15)Tennessee- Steve Slaton. It's not that I don't like Lendale, it's that I think he works better in tandom. With he, Slaton, and Young they can run the ball down people's throats.
16)Chicago- Matt Ryan. He can actually see over the offensive lineman!! Of course Lovie will probably push for another D-lineman.
17)Washington- Gosder Cherilus. It seems that Jansen can never stay healthy, and as long as Gibbs is there they'll need some big hog-mollys.
18)Houston- Limas Sweed. This is turning out to be a good team. But they need another WR across from Johnson. Why not bring in another Texan?
19)Broncos- Keith Rivers- the offense probably needs more help than the defense, but there isn't much available at this point.
20)New England (from San Fran)- James Laurinaitis- Some punishment eh?
21)Tampa Bay- Frank Okam. The defense is actually playing at a high level but they're getting older and are relatively easy to run on.
22)Carolina- Malcolm Jenkins- Their secondary needs all the help it can get.
23)Jacksonville- Colt Brennan. I don't know what to make of the Jaguars, or Brennan. This probably won't happen, but that defense is too good for a mediocre QB.
24)Philadelphia- Quentin Groves. He'd be a great value here. Javon Kearse and Darren Howard have never fully earned their paychecks.
25)San Diego- Antonine Cason. This secondary needs help.
26)Baltimore- Tommy Blake. See Scott's comments.
27)Seattle- John Carlson. Makes sense here for a lot of reasons.
28)Green Bay- Aqib Talib. They need youth and depth at the corner position.
29)San Fran- Earley Doucet. Another target for Alex Smith to not throw to.
30)Pittsburgh- Barry Richardson- Big Mauler type for the RT position.
31)Dallas- Terrell Thomas. Plays the nickel for now, but could challenge Henry.



Ryan appears to be the #3 QB of choice, and I don't see anyone pushing up to get him, though if he has a good combine/workouts, or someone else does, this is a QB heavy class so I expect 3 to be gone by the mid 1st (ala two years ago).

Hopefully Clady comes out, and that other junior OT too (can't remember his name).

Although things aren't looking so bright now...at least the draft is heavy in QB's and OT's. Something we need.
I think you are thinking of Michael Oher? Ole Miss if I'm not mistaken.

Also, I'd still prefer a possibility of getting McNabb and drafting either a RT or LT with our first pick and cutting Miller (if LT, cut Miller and move Tait back to the rightside).

Smokey Joe
09-24-2007, 08:11 PM
Right now my dream scenario is something like:

-I can see this team picking anywhere from 12-22. Maybe make the playoffs but not do much.

-Hopefully McNabb gets cut by the Eagles since unless he has just a terrific season (which I doubt since they have little offensive weapons) he will get cut to save cap and the Eagles will likely go into rebuilding mode with Kevin Kolb. If so, I'd sign McNabb right away. Grossman would have been long gone by now as well, and I'd cut Griese to save some cap, and have Kyle as the backup. Also, I'd draft someone like Keller or JDB if available in the 3rd to just develop for a couple of seasons.

-In the draft, I'd go for OT first. If we pick higher up, hopefully we can get someone like Clady, Baker, or Oher with our pick, all of whom are top LT prospects. I'd also move Tait back to RT and cut Fred Miller. If all those top LT prospects are gone by the time we pick, then go with Gosder and just have him be our RT and leave Tait at LT.

---MORE SOON!---

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-25-2007, 07:42 PM
Right now my dream scenario is something like:

-I can see this team picking anywhere from 12-22. Maybe make the playoffs but not do much.

-Hopefully McNabb gets cut by the Eagles since unless he has just a terrific season (which I doubt since they have little offensive weapons) he will get cut to save cap and the Eagles will likely go into rebuilding mode with Kevin Kolb. If so, I'd sign McNabb right away. Grossman would have been long gone by now as well, and I'd cut Griese to save some cap, and have Kyle as the backup. Also, I'd draft someone like Keller or JDB if available in the 3rd to just develop for a couple of seasons.

-In the draft, I'd go for OT first. If we pick higher up, hopefully we can get someone like Clady, Baker, or Oher with our pick, all of whom are top LT prospects. I'd also move Tait back to RT and cut Fred Miller. If all those top LT prospects are gone by the time we pick, then go with Gosder and just have him be our RT and leave Tait at LT.

---MORE SOON!---

I agree with all of this. I would cut Moose for $$ as well.

Does anyone know a site with an accurate list for FA's next year? We could really save some money by cutting Griese, Moose, & some others who are useless. Also, won't Darwin Walker get cut? He got signed to a pretty big deal that was back-loaded I don't quite remember the details.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-25-2007, 07:49 PM
Faneca is a FA - damn he would be nice.

C - Kreutz
LG - Faneca
RG - Ruben Brown
RT - John Tait
LT - Oher

That would be a nasty OL.

Hurricane Ditka
09-25-2007, 07:58 PM
Faneca is a FA - damn he would be nice.

C - Kreutz
LG - Faneca
RG - Ruben Brown
RT - John Tait
LT - Oher

That would be a nasty OL.
Ruben's done, and Faneca will be too expensive. Hopefully Beekman's ready to step in.

bearsfan_51
09-25-2007, 08:21 PM
We just signed Griese two years ago to a contract that has 3 more years on it. Cutting him wouldn't save money.

Moose on the other hand wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. Then again Mark Bradley is so far in the dog house who knows who will replace him.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-25-2007, 08:27 PM
Faneca will cost a significant amount, no doubt. But with the money we can save it may be worth it.

With that said it's a long shot and I have a feeling this will be the OL in '08:

C - Kreutz
LG - Garza
LT - Tait
RG - Metcalf
RT - First round pick

LonghornsLegend
09-25-2007, 08:33 PM
I like the thought of you guys going after Mcnabb, then you can keep super bowl aspirations during the era of your defense, but that mock bearsfan_51 posted was pretty good, except i dont think we take two secondary players with the first 2 rd picks, one pick will be CB, one will be D line, if we did take philllips we would have to get a CB 2nd no later at least, its an area of need and we cant afford to wait too long

Smokey Joe
09-25-2007, 09:14 PM
http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html

That is where I find info on NFL free agents.

I think we have two options with Moose, either cut him or have him restructure his contract. He is getting paid way to much to just put up decent numbers. He's a no. 3/possession guy at this point in his career.

However, I think signing WR Byrant Johnson would be a great move. He still has no. 1 potential, but has been stuck behind Larry Fitz and Bolden these past 2 years or so. He has preformed when given the opportunity, so I think it would be very wise to sign him.

And with Griese, he would save us some cap, and cutting him wouldn't be mainly about cap but rather he is old and not that good anymore. In fact there were rumors about Griese possibly getting demoted to 3rd string because of suckiness. I think Orton is better and would be a better backup option if we were to sign McNabb.

bearfan
09-26-2007, 09:07 PM
Heard on the radio *espn* that Tillman is out for a few weeks.

So pretty much we lose:
Vash
Till
Harris

We are screwed

TitleTown088
09-27-2007, 05:38 AM
I didn't realize the Bears had that many serious injures, they got ******.




-Hopefully McNabb gets cut by the Eagles since unless he has just a terrific season (which I doubt since they have little offensive weapons) he will get cut to save cap and the Eagles will likely go into rebuilding mode with Kevin Kolb. If so, I'd sign McNabb right away. Grossman would have been long gone by now as well, and I'd cut Griese to save some cap, and have Kyle as the backup. Also, I'd draft someone like Keller or JDB if available in the 3rd to just develop for a couple of seasons.




If you're going to sign Cinderella you better have a better backup than Orton.

Addict
09-28-2007, 02:11 AM
Heard on the radio *espn* that Tillman is out for a few weeks.

So pretty much we lose:
Vash
Till
Harris

We are screwed

well as I said earlier in the lions forum: with your roster intact, there's very little chance in this one for the lions, but with both your CB's and your starting DT out of the game, you may be vulnerable to our offensive style (pass, pass, pass, punt).

Offensively you guys should be allright though, Griese will give you more composure and hopefully less mistakes than Grossman, although benson may hve trouble against our DT's the passing game with Berrian and Moose should be doing fine. Greg Olsen could have himself a field day against his.

In all, I don't think you guys are screwed, but this game is going to be closer than it would normally, due to your injury list.

bearfan
09-28-2007, 06:22 AM
well as I said earlier in the lions forum: with your roster intact, there's very little chance in this one for the lions, but with both your CB's and your starting DT out of the game, you may be vulnerable to our offensive style (pass, pass, pass, punt).

Offensively you guys should be allright though, Griese will give you more composure and hopefully less mistakes than Grossman, although benson may hve trouble against our DT's the passing game with Berrian and Moose should be doing fine. Greg Olsen could have himself a field day against his.

In all, I don't think you guys are screwed, but this game is going to be closer than it would normally, due to your injury list.

You guys are beasts at passing. We just lost 2 of some of the better CBs in the league.

What we have to combat CJ, RW, SM, MF: Ricky Manning, Daniel Manning, Trumane McBride, Adam "I suck in coverage" Archuleta. Mannings are dec, especially Ricky, but I dont think a rookie, and Adam will have what it takes to take on Mike Furrey, Calvin Johnson, Shaun McDonald, and Roy

Notredameleo
09-28-2007, 11:22 AM
Good Luck this weekend, and i hope there are no more injuries for either teams...!

DaBears9654
09-28-2007, 09:18 PM
What really sucks about losing both our starting CBs is that RMJ can fill in at one spot, but who on the other side of the field? McBride or Graham, 2 rookies?

bearsfan_51
09-29-2007, 11:19 AM
RMJ and Danieal Manning are the two starting corners. Archuleta and Kevin Payne are the starting safties. Trumaine McBride will play the nickel.

Smokey Joe
09-29-2007, 06:01 PM
tomorrow is gonna be one long day....

Smokey Joe
09-29-2007, 06:26 PM
What do you guys think of possibly going for WR Byrant Johnson in the offseason?

DaBears9654
09-29-2007, 09:11 PM
2002 all over again I'm afraid. :(

bearsfan_51
09-29-2007, 11:16 PM
Nawh...we won't be nearly that bad. Even with the injuries this team is faaaaaaaar more talented than the 2002 team. But yeah...we could potentially be in for 7 wins or so. 4 wins seems out of the question at this point. If for no other reason than there are too many bad teams on our schedule.

bearfan
09-30-2007, 01:15 AM
KissingSuzyKolber is so funny



http://bp2.blogger.com/_3ZJuj_RcIcI/RvprE4jXZEI/AAAAAAAAAcE/ReK5a77Ee24/s320/grossman+stabbed.jpg

And... that'll be all for the Sex Cannon. It made sense to lionize our friend Rex Grossman back when he threw up the occasional 3 TD game. Unfortunately Sexy Rexy is, in reality, just another **** QB. So take care, Cumslinger. It was fun while it lasted. But I think we're all looking for something a bit more stable now.

But could there be another potential Sex Cannon on the Bears roster?
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RPG0Xn621Go/RvpxBOBUpuI/AAAAAAAAArc/tEI5YMW1uhA/s400/grossman+solution.jpg

Well, I'll be damned.

Geo
09-30-2007, 01:36 AM
On the FSN Pro Football Preview, Jay Glazer (the best info man today) said that Grossman and Griese weren't even close in practice, Grossman severely outplayed him and that Griese was horrible. The problem is that Grossman wouldn't play as well on Sunday.

So yeah, good luck with that.

awfullyquiet
09-30-2007, 10:52 AM
On the FSN Pro Football Preview, Jay Glazer (the best info man today) said that Grossman and Griese weren't even close in practice, Grossman severely outplayed him and that Griese was horrible. The problem is that Grossman wouldn't play as well on Sunday.

So yeah, good luck with that.

Ergo, why I may be the only one left on the bandwagon who still thinks grossman is a (the?) solution. And hell, i bet we can get him for a good deal this year too... haha... ron turner still should be shot...


oh.
and because all of you have missed it.

Calvin Johnson is a game time decision, i took him out of my roster, because i don't think Marinelli will play him today. why spend all that on the best WR to enter the game as a rookie (and at least have a few games of looking like it), and have him go out and play injured... That catch though where he landed on his back... pretty crazy...

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 11:17 AM
On the FSN Pro Football Preview, Jay Glazer (the best info man today) said that Grossman and Griese weren't even close in practice, Grossman severely outplayed him and that Griese was horrible. The problem is that Grossman wouldn't play as well on Sunday.

So yeah, good luck with that.
That's cool..when we have a "practice off" I'll call for Grossman to start. Untill then I want him nowhere near a football field in Bears jersey.

awfullyquiet
09-30-2007, 11:24 AM
That's cool..when we have a "practice off" I'll call for Grossman to start. Untill then I want him nowhere near a football field in Bears jersey.

I think your missing the point.
The problem isn't just grossman (as everyone wants to see it as), it's the coaching... if he isn't prepared to play on sunday, (which has been evident by the ****** play calling week in week out), that's not ALL his fault.

He's the better quarterback plain and simple.

I want to see griese get hurt and them have to throw either orton or grossman in and win the starting job back.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 11:32 AM
I think your missing the point.
The problem isn't just grossman (as everyone wants to see it as), it's the coaching... if he isn't prepared to play on sunday, (which has been evident by the ****** play calling week in week out), that's not ALL his fault.

Yes it is. This is a guy that admitted to not preparing because of New Years Eve. He's a jackass...I've always said that. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. The franchise has put SOOOO much behind Grossman and he never held up even the slightest bit of his end of it.

And wishing anyone to get injured is wrong, but I'm not suprised.

awfullyquiet
09-30-2007, 11:54 AM
Yes it is. This is a guy that admitted to not preparing because of New Years Eve. He's a jackass...I've always said that. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. The franchise has put SOOOO much behind Grossman and he never held up even the slightest bit of his end of it.

And wishing anyone to get injured is wrong, but I'm not suprised.

are you kidding me?

the franchise lost all support in him in week nine last year. they didn't let him play, and now they're suffering the consequences... they've been tightening and tightening his noose since arizona and haven't stopped, when they clearly showed that in the beginning (yes, last season) and in the pre-season, the less you focus on what you're going to have him NOT do, the less he does it. Make him make deep passes. He can. Make him make tight throws. He can. Make sure the receivers don't drop the god damn ball when their in the end zone. i think you make as many excuses for the opposite as i do.

if a player loses focus... who is there to help him? the coaching. lack of discipline that the players have been experiencing this year is due to lax coaching. it's been seen on both sides of the ball. don't give me the bologna and tell me that it's a steak.

and besides, the game was against the green bay packers. he shouldn't have played anyway. period. home field was clinched. bad coaching decision. besides, it should have just been a trial period to see if griese could do better with a little less.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm not going to argue football with you. You've been here for months now and demonstrated you know nothing about it.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 03:37 PM
Scratch that...we're pretty terrible. Hard to really read much of that game because we were missing over half the defense and were breaking in a new QB.

Still...the intangibles that won us almost every close game last year are failing us now. All of the penalties...all of the mental errors...the turnovers..dropped passes..etc. It's like this team forgot how to win...or just lost their heart. Pretty sad.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 03:45 PM
Ron Turner is a garbage play caller. I really hope he won't be back next season. We need a whole retooling on offense next season...

New OC, a couple new linemen (Garza and Miller have been garbage this season), a new QB, and a new WR(s).

However, no matter how bad this team is this year, I think with a good offseason this team can still become the top team in the NFC next year.

Also, like I stated before, Griese isn't the answer, give me Kyle!

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 03:49 PM
I just don't see the logic in going to Orton now. At this point Griese gives us the best chance to win. Grossman is completely inept and Orton is unproven at best, terrible at worst. While Griese threw a couple of bad picks, at least he showed the ability to run a real NFL offense. If the defense can get healthy and back to form, I'll take the dinking and dunking if he can cut down on the turnovers.

If we really start to slide, sure, throw Orton in there and see what he can do, but at this point I want the team on the field most likely to win.

I'm also starting to turn on Turner too. I think the criticisms last year were stupid quite frankly given the talent level, but his play-calling just never seems to find any sync. Then again when there's no blocking and people can't catch the ball I don't think it matters much.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 03:57 PM
Yeah, I kinda overreacted about the Griese thing, as he does have the best chance of leading us to victory now, but perhaps just needs a game or two to shake out the cobwebs.

SFbear
09-30-2007, 03:59 PM
I think were treading into Andre Woodson/Franchise OT territory. Ugh. Seriously? The Lions? How did we go from a pretty robust roster to needing to completely rebuild our offense.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 04:04 PM
I think the defense played extremely well today to be honest. The defense pretty much held one of the better offenses to only 23 points actually. They got 14 points from the pick 6 and botched onside kick. I think the defense holding the Lions to only 23 points with as many people hurt and out was quite impressive.

k0ng
09-30-2007, 04:08 PM
Seriously, I don't think I've seen our offensive line pick up a blitz since week 3 in Minnesota last year. They are always getting pushed backwards(run or pass). Most of our problems on offense start with them, but that's not to say the rest of the O isn't equally as bad.

Benson is not the answer at running back. It's obvious the guy doesn't have it mentally and that the rest of the team doesn't believe or much less like him. He has the physical skills...he just doesn't get "it".

As I see it right now(I know it's only week 4), we're going to need a QB, RB, 2-3 olineman, and a WR in the offseason.

The Defense is stacked when everyone is healthy. The defense that showed up in the first 3 quarters of the San Diego game could have been special. Depending on how well Dusty recovers and how they feel Mike is doing, we might need a DT and a S. Oh yea, we absolutely need to resign Briggs.

Injuries are always the first sign of a long season, and we have plenty of those.

If the offense gets it together, we get healthy on defense, and the injuries stop then we could be a playoff team. That's alot of 'ifs' for the 4th week of the season, especially the injury part. Who knows what will happen from here on out. Orton could come in and light it up. :rolleyes: Best case scenario = 10-6. The way things are looking now = 5-11.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 04:14 PM
Well, I'm not really gonna criticize Benson yet because he only got 15 carries today and they were all pretty much spread out. That has been pretty much the story for Benson except for the KC game. Plus, it doesn't help that the blocking has been terrible and Benson has had very few holes to run through. Last time I checked, it doesn't matter how good a RB is, it all depends on the blocking first and foremost. You can't do real well no matter how good you are when all the holes are filled up and there is a guy already in the backfield.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 04:17 PM
Regarding the O-Line, I hope Tait isn't hurt seriously and will be back next year. Ruben has played well for being 1,000. Kreutz has been surprisingly mediocre and Garza and Miller have been terrible. I think it is a matter of time before Beekman or even Metcalf take over for Garza. I don't know about Miller as I don't think St. Clair would be any better... I think we need a franchise LT and move Tait over to RT.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-30-2007, 04:21 PM
I'm all for losing 12 games this year if we can get a real Quarterback.

We need to sign a LT in the offseason. Who's the big guy from Pittsburgh that's a free agent?

Andre Woodson, a Left Tackle, Move Tait to RT, and draft a WR in round 2.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 04:27 PM
I'm still hoping for McNabb in the offseason as our QB so we won't have to go through that QB training process... however, if we pick in the top 5 or so, Kenny Phillips would be awfully tempting.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 04:29 PM
I don't think Orton makes sense now, but if we lose a few more games and the season is toast, then yes, at that point, I think we go Orton. Actually, to be honest, if we get to if we lose to Green Bay next week, I wouldn't mind shedding some guys, if possible, for draft picks. This draft should have good depth that a midround pick could find a useful project. I mean, say we are at 1 in going into week 6. Do we need Griese around? At 1-5 ... our season's pretty much toast. A team might take an interest in him as protection. Would we need Alex Brown? Probably not ... he's got better value in season than after the season. Heck ... I'd try to move Briggs as well, and if anyone wants Archuleta, be my guest. I'd even consider shipping Muhammad out because, well, he's not getting any younger. Oh, I'd consider shipping out Desmond Clark as well.

A lot of blame can go to Ron Turner, but Benson and the other players need to be taken to task. I still fully believe we need a better RB to push Benson. If Bradley is still in the doghouse, then the WR spot has to be upgraded, even if we assume that Hester can improve. Funny thing is, with Hester, Berrian, and Davis, we have guys more fit for Terry Shea's old offense ... which sort of makes me laugh. We need a young tackle to begin with, and a young OG as well, preferably more than 1 OG, as Ruben Brown might not be around.

Defensively, end is fine, but I still think we need better DT depth. Lb is about the only spot on the defense I feel okay with even if Briggs is gone ... although a depth guy would be nice (I do like Williams and Okwo, though). I like our young CB's ... can't really fault them today that much because it was a tough situation, but we need to give a long look to our safety position. I think with Payne/McGowan/Manning, we have some promise, but another young guy is needed in that mix because all three are question marks.

Maybe a bit pessimistic now ... but that said, I think one thing we have to understand, to a certain extent, is that, this roster isn't that much different from last year's, and to the extent that we are underachieving now, we overachieved last year to a certain extent, and it's the parity in the NFL. A good offseason, and we can be strong again. Even if we somehow end in the playoffs, which I doubt, this team needs work ... but whether or not Angelo is willing to admit it, I'm not sure.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 04:30 PM
I'm all for losing 12 games this year if we can get a real Quarterback.

We need to sign a LT in the offseason. Who's the big guy from Pittsburgh that's a free agent?

Andre Woodson, a Left Tackle, Move Tait to RT, and draft a WR in round 2.


Uh ... Faneca is the impending FA from Pittsburgh, and he's an OG. As good as he is, I think I'll pass. I think we can put our money to better use elsewhere, unless he comes at a discount that I don't expect at this moment in time.

k0ng
09-30-2007, 04:31 PM
Well, I'm not really gonna criticize Benson yet because he only got 15 carries today and they were all pretty much spread out. That has been pretty much the story for Benson except for the KC game. Plus, it doesn't help that the blocking has been terrible and Benson has had very few holes to run through. Last time I checked, it doesn't matter how good a RB is, it all depends on the blocking first and foremost. You can't do real well no matter how good you are when all the holes are filled up and there is a guy already in the backfield.

Its not that, it's his whole demeanor. The guy seems like he just doesn't give a ****. I'd hate to see what he'd be like or the garbage that would spew from his mouth with a little success.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-30-2007, 04:32 PM
Uh ... Faneca is the impending FA from Pittsburgh, and he's an OG. As good as he is, I think I'll pass. I think we can put our money to better use elsewhere, unless he comes at a discount that I don't expect at this moment in time.

Not Faneca.

They have a Tackle who is HUGE that is a FA.

EDIT: Max Starks is his name. He's like 6'9 350.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 04:32 PM
Regarding the O-Line, I hope Tait isn't hurt seriously and will be back next year. Ruben has played well for being 1,000. Kreutz has been surprisingly mediocre and Garza and Miller have been terrible. I think it is a matter of time before Beekman or even Metcalf take over for Garza. I don't know about Miller as I don't think St. Clair would be any better... I think we need a franchise LT and move Tait over to RT.

I think the best situation is probably finding that franchise LT, but starting him at RT next year, and in 09-10, flip Tait. Unless Tait just can't hack it anymore, I think it's best to give the youngster the safer area.

There is enough depth in this draft to address our OL needs. To be honest, I wouldn't mind trying St. Clair inside at guard, although Beekman/Metcalf should get first shots if we opt to replace Garza inside.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 04:32 PM
Not Faneca.

They have a Tackle who is HUGE that is a FA.

EDIT: Max Starks is his name. He's like 6'9 350.

Oh, Starks ... eh ... not so big on him. Decent OT I guess ... it'll depend on what he costs.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 04:37 PM
I don't think Orton makes sense now, but if we lose a few more games and the season is toast, then yes, at that point, I think we go Orton. Actually, to be honest, if we get to if we lose to Green Bay next week, I wouldn't mind shedding some guys, if possible, for draft picks. This draft should have good depth that a midround pick could find a useful project. I mean, say we are at 1 in going into week 6. Do we need Griese around? At 1-5 ... our season's pretty much toast. A team might take an interest in him as protection. Would we need Alex Brown? Probably not ... he's got better value in season than after the season. Heck ... I'd try to move Briggs as well, and if anyone wants Archuleta, be my guest. I'd even consider shipping Muhammad out because, well, he's not getting any younger. Oh, I'd consider shipping out Desmond Clark as well.

A lot of blame can go to Ron Turner, but Benson and the other players need to be taken to task. I still fully believe we need a better RB to push Benson. If Bradley is still in the doghouse, then the WR spot has to be upgraded, even if we assume that Hester can improve. Funny thing is, with Hester, Berrian, and Davis, we have guys more fit for Terry Shea's old offense ... which sort of makes me laugh. We need a young tackle to begin with, and a young OG as well, preferably more than 1 OG, as Ruben Brown might not be around.

Defensively, end is fine, but I still think we need better DT depth. Lb is about the only spot on the defense I feel okay with even if Briggs is gone ... although a depth guy would be nice (I do like Williams and Okwo, though). I like our young CB's ... can't really fault them today that much because it was a tough situation, but we need to give a long look to our safety position. I think with Payne/McGowan/Manning, we have some promise, but another young guy is needed in that mix because all three are question marks.

Maybe a bit pessimistic now ... but that said, I think one thing we have to understand, to a certain extent, is that, this roster isn't that much different from last year's, and to the extent that we are underachieving now, we overachieved last year to a certain extent, and it's the parity in the NFL. A good offseason, and we can be strong again. Even if we somehow end in the playoffs, which I doubt, this team needs work ... but whether or not Angelo is willing to admit it, I'm not sure.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. That said I just don't buy the trading of veterans for a few reasons.

1)Unless we're willing to accept the fact that next season is lost too, shipping of veteran leadership at the first sign of turmoil might send the wrong message in the locker room. The players could take it as a motivator or a detractor, but I'm generally against knee-jerk reactions, and I believe the FO feels the same way.

2)It just never happens. One player maybe, but looking at the trading deadline it's so rare to expect that anything will get done.

I do think a more likely solution would be to continually trade back and fill the depth as best as we can. The core of the team is still rather solidly in tact I think (when healthy) but as you mentioned, there are a lot of positions that need more competition.

I think the biggest issue is that the franchise has developed a bit of a country club attitude, especially for veterans. I think this can be attributed to the injuries we've had, and the way the team seems to completely fade in the 4th quarter. I've always had issues with the way Lovie coddles his vets, and I think Angelo has slipped into the mentality of ordaining his starters more on draft status than performance.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 04:49 PM
I don't mean to imply that we'd be able to ship out all those vets (although if that happened, I'd be okay with it). That said, few of those vets I've named are really critical to 2008, IMO. Archuleta's liability in coverage was long known, Bazuin was a 2nd round pick and has to be given a chance to at least be the 3rd end, so Brown gone is okay.

Briggs would be nice to have, but I don't think many of us expect him around, if any of us do. And, it's not really critical. I really doubt Muhammad gets moved, although I wouldn't be against it. Griese and Clark might be the two guys I think would be critical to 2008, but at some point, Olsen has to given the top job, and Clark's got solid value to trade, whether it be at the deadline, or offseason.

As to the loss of leadership, I've always found that a bit overrated, particularly if the team is struggling. As bad as Rex was, I think Muhsin somewhat threw him under the bus.

Pittbc7
09-30-2007, 04:55 PM
Why has Hass been inactive? He is clearly better than the wrs playing. He also has built up a raport with Griese from preseason and catches everything. Great coaching move lovie

Addict
09-30-2007, 04:55 PM
I think were treading into Andre Woodson/Franchise OT territory. Ugh. Seriously? The Lions? How did we go from a pretty robust roster to needing to completely rebuild our offense.

I don't think the bears are nearly as bad as their record. That said, your offense looks terrible and you definately need a new QB. But there's plenty of good QB's and quite some good o-linemen too, so with a good draft you guys should be right on top.

I would still say the bears are going to turn this around and start winning some games.

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 04:58 PM
On a side note, as lukewarm as I am about Jake Long's potential as a LT, he does make some sense for our offense, and if we are picking that high, may be a Angelo type of pick, and would allow Angelo to argue that adding a strong run blocker like Long could make Benson better (and allow Angelo to avoid picking a RB to high). That would disappoint me, but I could see that happening. I'd rather move down and draft another OT in that situation, and hope for picks, but trading down doesn't always happen, if we are that high.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 05:18 PM
On a side note, as lukewarm as I am about Jake Long's potential as a LT, he does make some sense for our offense, and if we are picking that high, may be a Angelo type of pick, and would allow Angelo to argue that adding a strong run blocker like Long could make Benson better (and allow Angelo to avoid picking a RB to high). That would disappoint me, but I could see that happening. I'd rather move down and draft another OT in that situation, and hope for picks, but trading down doesn't always happen, if we are that high.
while Long would be great to have, I think a situation of moving down about 10 picks and picking up another pick or two in the first day would be really ideal. Like Ryan Clady or Sam Baker at 15 or so and another pick late in the first or an early 2nd rounder and a 3rd rounder.

However, if McNabb isn't available in the offseason or any other vet/good QB for that matter, I think QB would have to be the pick in the 1st no matter where we pick.

As far as trades go, I wouldn't mind seeing a trade of Grossman at the deadline. Something similar to what happened to Fyre. Hell, if Fyre can get a 5th, we should be able to get something for Grossman (perhaps a 4th rounder?). Some playoff contending team probably would like to have Grossman as their backup.

Alex Brown is likely gone in the offseason. I think we could get a 3rd rounder for him. As for SS, I think Archuletta stays for another season as there isn't anyone really appealing in the draft besides Phillips at safety, and there isn't anyone in the free agent market. Plus, his only real bad game thus far has been the Dallas game.

I really don't see any other trades to be honest except perhaps a small one here or there.

bearsfan_51
09-30-2007, 05:28 PM
Frye got a 6th, and he had two years left on his contract. Nobody is going to give anything up for Grossman. Would you?

toonsterwu
09-30-2007, 05:43 PM
I agree, don't see anyone giving up anything for Grossman ... UNLESS someone has a catastrophic injury. That being said, even if that did happen, I think more teams would have interest in Griese than Grossman.

I think Alex Brown getting a third round pick is possible, although I wouldn't be surprised if all we could get is a day 2 pick. That said, if we deal him, I expect a 3rd/4th rounder.

As for Archuleta, no, he hasn't been that bad this year. But he's still a liability in pass coverage, and he's really a bit overrated in run support as well. It's a shame Mike Brown's always hurt, as he was a player.

Smokey Joe
09-30-2007, 06:23 PM
Lets say we pick in the top 5 who are some teams we could possibly trade down with who have needs at either OT (Long), QB (Woodson/QB would likely be the pick for us however if we can't get someone in free agency), or S (Phillips)?

However, with that being said, I still doubt that we end up in the top 5, I think we will get at least 6-7 wins which should be good for around pick no. 10. If so, Sam Baker would look to be the ideal pick. (and looking at WR, Earl Bennett would be a good choice in the second if he is there and does come out... either him or Malcolm Kelly.)

awfullyquiet
09-30-2007, 07:45 PM
I think the defense played extremely well today to be honest. The defense pretty much held one of the better offenses to only 23 points actually. They got 14 points from the pick 6 and botched onside kick. I think the defense holding the Lions to only 23 points with as many people hurt and out was quite impressive.

Agreed 100%.

For how beat up it was, I'm impressed at the moxie and composure of the linebackers and DB's... It also didn't hurt that Kitna only threw, say, 24 times... I woulda thrown 50 times against the young DB's. 20/24 for 247? I coulda bet we would have gotten eviscerated if Kitna woulda thrown more... Sure, then, Bell and Jones wouldn't have gotten as much as they did (and a bit more respect for next week)... but they would have scared people worse.

Now. Onto griese... Thanks BF51 for the kind words that i know nothing about football.

Griese looked like crap. Yes, he reached for the check down more often (going to mckee and clark a few times in the flats), but has shown he wasn't any more productive against a rather crappy defense... he telegraphed his throws (no lie.), didn't have the zip that grossman on his passes either... sure. i think it's completely loaded question to say... by the stats, grossman didn't do much worse than griese... got lucky with a fumble that garza picked up (you should have heard me arguing with myself saying that was the most bogus call).... the receivers STILL haven't shown up (and by them i really mean Berrian, and by show up i mean don't have a case of dropsies every few passes)...

the big loser in my book, as i've said over the past few weeks is ron turner.
i'd trade him for norv please thank you.

bearfan
09-30-2007, 08:56 PM
I thought Griese played well today. 2 of his INTs were what I think is a product of rust, and they were just behind the recievers. Other than those, I think he did a good job, especially leading the offense down on the last drive.

Benson needs more freaking carries. I know the Oline isnt doing much for him, but everytime he makes a mistake (fumbles) they completly take him out of the game. Benson is one of those guys who is supposed to get stronger as the game goes on, and when he wears the defense down...and he isnt givin that opprotunity.

I thought the defense played extremly well today, the 2ndary wasnt bad despite the injuries. I seriously thought we were going to get dominated in the worst way through the air, but our DL came through.

But hey, I think this game shows that we probably wont make the playoffs. Our defense isnt going to pull us through like last year. Hester is a man amongst boys, but I think that the Lions figured out how to completley negate him on kickoffs: squib to him.

bearfan
09-30-2007, 09:05 PM
Alright, just thinking, depending on where we draft, probably anywhere from 8-16, what would you think of this:

1st: Sam Baker/best OT avaliable
2nd: Dennis Dixon
3rd: Marcus Monk/OL

If Dennis Dixon were to fall, I would definantly like the possibility of taking him. I mean, he is more of a potential pick, but he can move, he is 6'4, and has a good arm.

VoteLynnSwan
09-30-2007, 09:09 PM
get rid of that sig, it is really ******* annoying.

bearfan
09-30-2007, 09:15 PM
i hope it gives you a seizure

VoteLynnSwan
09-30-2007, 09:44 PM
i hope it gives you a seizure

and i hope you die a horrible horrible death.

bearfan
09-30-2007, 09:46 PM
your eyes burned out yet?

and I posted this on the last page, but someone had to complain about my sig.

Alright, just thinking, depending on where we draft, probably anywhere from 8-16, what would you think of this:

1st: Sam Baker/best OT avaliable
2nd: Dennis Dixon
3rd: Marcus Monk/OL

If Dennis Dixon were to fall, I would definantly like the possibility of taking him. I mean, he is more of a potential pick, but he can move, he is 6'4, and has a good arm.

johbur
10-01-2007, 03:15 AM
i hope it gives you a seizure

I love your sig.

On a serious note, who is evaluating the QB talent out there for the Bears? They could have made a play for a guy like Schaub or Carr. Not saying Carr would have been any better or that you could have gotten Schaub as he was in-conference, but it just seems that there is so little attention paid to the QB position.

bigbluedefense
10-01-2007, 12:14 PM
Ron Turner did a horrible job. When youre up for 3 quarters, theres NO EXCUSE for throwing it that much.

Wasn't Griese supposed to manage the game? Game managers dont throw it 50 times Turner. Turner is doing a horrible job coordinating the offense this year.

Benson, while he isnt playing as well as he should, isn't playing poorly either. He's not a big play threat, thats all. But his #s aren't that bad considering the touches he's getting. Turner is doing a horrible job.

If you want to point the finger at anybody, point it at Turner right now.

Geo
10-01-2007, 12:59 PM
I've hated what Turner has done this season and yesterday was no different. He has this cute offense in his mind that he's adamant in implementing, instead of building the offense this team needs with the personnel they have. He's essentially the polar opposite of Norm Chow.

But the offensive line needs to play better, they can't have dropped off that much over one offseason. As I said, the whole Grossman or Griese thing is way overdone, if the Bears can't run the ball then they can't win. I'm still baffled as to why Benson doesn't get at least 20 carries, he needs to pound the ball. That's his game, that was his game coming out of Texas and that's his game now. This isn't a freaking revelation.

The Bears remind me of when the Steelers went through their litte Tommy Gun era, where they threw the ball around and put up a lot of passing yards (at least the Steelers went to the playoffs one year of it) - a cute little experiment that's not really going to last and will ultimately fail.

SFbear
10-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Ron Turner likes to run what I call the "They'll never see it coming!" offense. Its 2nd and 2 and the running game has been successful the entire drive, time for a long bomb to Berrian! Cedric Benson strengths are between the tackles so lets bounce him out to the side or pass to him in the flats. Garrett Wolfe straight up the gut. A little shaky at the QB position? Its time to abandon the run and throw up 50+ pass attempts.

Only time this worked was the beginning of last year when teams literally didn't see it coming. But that grinded to a halt as soon as teams figured out Turner's idiotic tendencies.

awfullyquiet
10-01-2007, 04:43 PM
I also like that Turner said (yes, said...) that he was planning on implementing Olsen, Wolfe, and Hester more into the offense... I understand if Olsen is pretty much down with residual injuries, understandable... But he lead us all on with these grand plans of putting hester and wolfe into space and letting their agility... attacking the middle of the cover twos with lots of 2TE offenses...

he needs to set standards, down distance time points, of what he calls, nothing off the cuff whatever it may be, but he has to really actually pay attention to what he calls. he calls plays like my kid brother does in madden... whatever looks fun, and not what's smart.

bearfan
10-01-2007, 06:07 PM
Turner needs to be fired if this keeps up. He has been terrible, and there is no reason that a Chicago QB should be throwing 50+ times a game. period.

I also think that if we draft a new QB, that we should bring in someone who can actually develop him. That way when he comes on the field, he will get better as his career goes on...not worse.

SFbear
10-01-2007, 08:12 PM
Gentleman our offensive woes are over...

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=3906

"With the Bears offense struggling to score points, coach Lovie Smith vowed Monday to get speedy playmakers Devin Hester and Greg Olsen more involved in the game plan."

Brilliant!!! This is why Lovie gets paid the big bucks.

bearsfan_51
10-01-2007, 08:16 PM
I still say getting Hester involved more on offense is a bad idea. Someone will have to explain to me the merits of Hester as a reciever over Mark Bradley. I mean....I really like banana pudding, but I wouldn't use it as a flotation device if I got in a plane crash. Let him do what he does. We need to simplify the offense, not add even more gimmicks to it.

Geo
10-01-2007, 08:19 PM
The answer is inexperienced players who are new to the offense? :shrug:

Completely agree with the Bradley mention. Is something wrong with Desmond Clark? The guy can still play, and play well.

SFbear
10-01-2007, 08:28 PM
I still say getting Hester involved more on offense is a bad idea. Someone will have to explain to me the merits of Hester as a reciever over Mark Bradley. I mean....I really like banana pudding, but I wouldn't use it as a flotation device if I got in a plane crash. Let him do what he does. We need to simplify the offense, not add even more gimmicks to it.

I just think its funny that the coaches have been saying this every week since training camp, and then Lovie comes out with "But this time I REALLY mean it" to quell the discontent.

The whole Mark Bradley thing has me stumped. Lovie clearly doesn't know what he's doing on offense. If he really believed in the run first philosophy he espouses he would have smacked Ron Turner across the face a long time ago.

VoteLynnSwan
10-02-2007, 12:41 AM
The answer is inexperienced players who are new to the offense? :shrug:

Completely agree with the Bradley mention. Is something wrong with Desmond Clark? The guy can still play, and play well.

he's played fine, he's just not the dynamic playmaker that Greg Olsen is supposed to be.

toonsterwu
10-02-2007, 09:18 PM
A bit bored ... random thought i had ...

let's say you could keep only 10 current Bears for the 2008 season ... who do you keep? let's leave the contract situations out of it ... maybe most people will put up the same things ... btw, assume that the coaching staff stays in place in the critical areas ...

Me, I think my 10 (and why) would be (random order btw)

1. LT John Tait - Even if we draft a youngster, it'll take time for them to really be ready. I mean, we could push a guy in, but that probably isn't the best move if Tait is capable.

2. C Olin Kreutz - I think a strong center makes an OL better, and while I don't think Kreutz is as good as he has been, he's still, well, one of the better C's, in the league, IMO.

3. MLB Brian Urlacher - Heart and soul of that defense. Still probably has 3 or so top tier years left.

4. DT Tommie Harris - The potential is too high to not keep when he suits the defense perfectly.

5. DE Mark Anderson - Steal of a pick (still not sure how he fell that year ... I know why ... but it still didn't seem to make sense). Showing his rookie year wasn't a flash in the pan.

6. WR Bernard Berrian - Our real only receiving threat right now. Still in his prime, and the deep speed to help push the ball.

7. TE Greg Olsen - Talent is too much to not keep ... even if I wasn't the biggest fan of him as a prospect.

8. WR/KR/PR Devin Hester - Again, more of an upside pick ... but it's worth the gamble.

9. CB Nathan Vasher - I like Vasher better than Tillman and so he gets the nod here. That said, keeping one is needed.

10. K Robbie Gould - A nice kicker is always good if we're breaking in a QB.

619
10-02-2007, 09:24 PM
i kno hes havin a down year but what bout lance briggs? also left out a high potential guy in cedric benson who i think can still turn it around

toonsterwu
10-02-2007, 09:35 PM
ah, i probably should put why i wouldn't keep some guys around

Cedric Benson - It's actually nothing against him even though I'm not a big fan, but the way we utilize RB's, and the RB position in general, is one that can be found with good scouting. Again, not factoring money into this equation (which is, in many ways, ridiculous, but I was bored).

Any of our QB's - The Brian Griese's of the world (decent veteran QB) can be found in FA each year. The Kyle Orton's of the world (raw QB with upside) can be found in day 2 of each draft. And uh, I think the Grossman thing doesn't need mentioning.

Desmond Clark - Keeping 2 TE's if we are limiting to 10 is just too much, and Olsen's upside gets the nod.

The rest OL/RB/FB/TE - the latter 3 spots, our depth charts aren't anything extraordinary right now ... as for the OL, I'm a believer that G's and RT's can be found

WR, and in particular, Mark Bradley - This was a tough call ... I really like Bradley, and I'll even assume in the hypothetical that he gets out of the doghouse ... it's just, Hester's upside and value is so high that, as raw as he is, if I keep Berrian, I just can't justify keeping a potential 3rd receiver when the guy's role would be to complement Berrian in many respects ...

LB's - WIthin the system, I just think LB's can be replaced. Urlacher gets kept for his uniqueness and leadership ... just don't think Briggs is needed.

Rest of DL - Remember, only keeping 10. So had to be strict. I would've liked to keep another end, but one strong end/tackle combination can often make a line, and thus Anderson/Harris, and they have the upside/youth.

Rest of DB's - Was tempted to put Danieal Manning in there. Brown and Archuleta just are too risky, IMO, to fit into a 10, and the young guys are, well young guys, and we can find raw young guys on day 2 of a draft (heck, McBride/Payne/Graham were all day 2). I don't see the point of keeping too many CB's, as I think they can be found to fit into the scheme, so keeping one was enough.

The toughest one might've actually been ... "Mr. Sexiest Bear" Brad Maynard (I completely missed this article, until I googled Brad Maynard to see his punting stats ... http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/215883,CST-NWS-hotbears18.article) . I like a strong K/P tandem. But eh ... punter is more replaceable than K, IMO, at least, relative to finding a decent one.

VoteLynnSwan
10-02-2007, 10:25 PM
Bernard Berrian is far sexier than Maynard.

toonsterwu
10-02-2007, 11:21 PM
Thanks for sharing ...

bearsfan_51
10-02-2007, 11:38 PM
Good question Tooney. I'll spare the analysis in picks that corespond with yours.

This is in order btw, not sure if yours was but it seemed to be.


1)Urlacher
2)Tommie Harris
3)Mark Anderson
4)Tait
5)Bernard Berrian
6)Briggs (if contract is of no significance here)
7)Tillman
8)Kruetz
9)Olsen
10)Hester

So...my primary differences would be Tillman over Vasher (didn't realize you were in the Vasher camp)...I personally feel that Tillman is drastically more valuable as both a prospect and even scheme wise. Vasher, to me, is much more replaceable.

I also can't leave out Briggs. While that may be a luxury, it's a luxury well worth keeping. Also, considering that Briggs shows up more than anyone else on defense a lot of the time, he provides a consistancy that Urlacher quite frankly does not.

I also can't justify putting Gould on there. Sorry. I love Gould, but he's a kicker, and a kicker that can't hit jack over 50 yards at that. It's a nice safety net for this team, but I hardly consider him harder to replace than a special talent like Hester or even Olsen for that matter.


I also flirted with leaving Kruetz off in favor of Benson, as blasphemous as that sounds, assuming that this would be a team in a drastic rebuilding mode. However, Benson has shown little to nothing so far, so he's infinately more replaceable than Kruetz, even if Kruetz's shelf life is slightly more limited.

I also flirted with Danieal Manning over Hester (and think that might be my biggest error) because Manning can return and contribute on defense. The thought of Hester not on the Bears makes me sad though. This team would be much less interesting to watch if nothing else.

NATIONALchamps
10-03-2007, 03:37 AM
it has come to my attentions that many chicago? bears players have good physiques. i don't speak good english but i think you get my point.

NATIONALchamps
10-03-2007, 03:51 AM
it is a must to sign re bernard berrian. he brings a dimension that is different from other match up well. i can't believe cbs usa don't like the give ted danson shows.

DChess
10-03-2007, 04:20 AM
it is a must to sign re bernard berrian. he brings a dimension that is different from other match up well. i can't believe cbs usa don't like the give ted danson shows.

hahah i love this guy

DChess
10-03-2007, 04:21 AM
it has come to my attentions that many chicago? bears players have good physiques. i don't speak good english but i think you get my point.

hahahhahhaah

bearsfan_51
10-03-2007, 10:18 AM
I agree dude...Becker was awesome.

Geo
10-03-2007, 01:15 PM
Lovie Smith: "Cedric is the type of back who needs a lot of carries, so we’re going to try to get him more carries.” (http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?STORY_ID=3908)

That would be a wise (and overdue) course of action.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 01:24 PM
They showed a highlight on NFL Live i believe last night, where on a run play, 2 offensive linemen just stood there talking to eachother during the play instead of blocking, or...giving a damn.

I don't think Ive ever seen that in my life.

awfullyquiet
10-03-2007, 01:39 PM
Lovie Smith: "Cedric is the type of back who needs a lot of carries, so we’re going to try to get him more carries.” (http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?STORY_ID=3908)

That would be a wise (and overdue) course of action.

No kidding.
you think lovie in his infinite awfesnive wisdom has to pressure ron turner to figure that out.

i have no idea why he'd have less than 27 touches a game. period. 23 carries per game should not 15 last week, or 74 over 4 games... totally unacceptable... because every game we've played we haven't been blown out.... grind the running game, up until the last minute of the fourth quarter...

and BBD if you find that link there'd be much love.
because i'll write some letters to those boys yelling at them.

SFbear
10-03-2007, 04:09 PM
They showed a highlight on NFL Live i believe last night, where on a run play, 2 offensive linemen just stood there talking to eachother during the play instead of blocking, or...giving a damn.

I don't think Ive ever seen that in my life.

Do you know which lineman? Was Benson the runner? I have heard rumors that the entire team pretty much hates Benson but I would think we were a more professional team than that.

bigbluedefense
10-03-2007, 04:14 PM
Do you know which lineman? Was Benson the runner? I have heard rumors that the entire team pretty much hates Benson but I would think we were a more professional team than that.

Honestly I don't know. I just remember them showing the clip on NFL Live. Or it may have been sportscenter...I don't know, it was definately on ESPN.

It was a run to the left, and I believe it was the RG and RT (can't confirm it) who rather than block, or show they gave a damn, just stood there talking to eachother while the play went on. I understand the play was away from their side, but still, you don't do that. That was real bad.

I believe it was Benson running as well.

Smokey Joe
10-03-2007, 10:02 PM
Honestly I don't know. I just remember them showing the clip on NFL Live. Or it may have been sportscenter...I don't know, it was definately on ESPN.

It was a run to the left, and I believe it was the RG and RT (can't confirm it) who rather than block, or show they gave a damn, just stood there talking to eachother while the play went on. I understand the play was away from their side, but still, you don't do that. That was real bad.

I believe it was Benson running as well.
That would be Roberto Garza and Fred Miller. They have sucked pretty much all season so them doing stupid **** like that wouldn't surprise me.

Geo
10-03-2007, 10:48 PM
At least Garza gives old people carpool rides ...

BUSTKUNTLAWL
10-03-2007, 11:14 PM
Garza is the worst starting guard in football.

Fred Miller is absolutely done. I wouldn't mind seeing St Clair at this point.

SFbear
10-04-2007, 11:27 AM
At least Garza gives old people carpool rides ...

Yeah but I hear he steals their pills when the cameras not rolling.

SFbear
10-05-2007, 08:19 PM
That would be Roberto Garza and Fred Miller. They have sucked pretty much all season so them doing stupid **** like that wouldn't surprise me.

Just saw it on NFL live. It was Kreutz and Brown. They probably wouldn't have significantly affected the play but seriously they just stood there and talked. WTF?

Smokey Joe
10-06-2007, 09:23 AM
Well, Kreutz has been surprisingly bad this season... Ruben, he's just old and a BA, I can't get mad at him.

bigbluedefense
10-06-2007, 01:39 PM
Yeah, after I saw it the 2nd time, Kreutz was definately one of them. Its just weird to see that. I don't think Ive ever seen that in my life.

At least pretend to block.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
10-07-2007, 07:34 PM
Darwin Walker was PATHETIC on that opening series.

How much $$ did JA pay this guy?

toonsterwu
10-07-2007, 07:55 PM
Boy ... our offense is ugly. Ugh ... maybe it is time to overhaul this team ... the defense has holes ... the offense looks downright pathetic ...

toonsterwu
10-07-2007, 08:04 PM
wow ... it's been awhile since i sat down and watched the beginning of a bears game ... i think i'm about to go find the walmart to walk around ... man, our offense is ridiculously pathetic ... and I can't even blame the OL in the series that i saw ... does benson know how to run forward? isn't he supposed to be a smashmouth running back, between the tackles type? he looks awful ... what's with ron turner calling a pathetic play action leaving only one deep target, which allowed Berrian to be doubled ...

man ... the packers should be up by a lot, if it wasn't for james jones and charles tillman ...

BUSTKUNTLAWL
10-07-2007, 08:16 PM
3rd n 6 we spread em out and hand it off to Peterson..

I am at a loss for words.

toonsterwu
10-07-2007, 08:18 PM
yeah, i don't understand that at all, the drive was showing some creativity and aggressiveness to compensate for our deficiences, but come on, 3rd and 6 and run it with Peterson?

BUSTKUNTLAWL
10-07-2007, 08:19 PM
TD Benson.. nice run.

bearsfan_51
10-07-2007, 08:20 PM
Other than the AP run that was a very creative and well executed drive. If that's what Turner is talking about I'll take it, though I still feel like we need more Greg Olsen.

Nice to see Bradley see the field too.

toonsterwu
10-07-2007, 08:22 PM
Yeah, that was a good drive. And even though I'm not a fan of Benson, that was a dang good run he made at the end, showing good patience and drive. If he can run like that consistently, even with an average OL, we can have a decent offense. Honestly, all he needs to do is be an average back. Go in there, run hard, get 3-4 yards per carry, and our offense looks better. In short, be what ANthony Thomas was all those years ago (man ... was it really that long ... time sure goes by quick ... )

toonsterwu
10-07-2007, 08:26 PM
Other than the AP run that was a very creative and well executed drive. If that's what Turner is talking about I'll take it, though I still feel like we need more Greg Olsen.

Nice to see Bradley see the field too.

I'd like to see Olsen a bit more on the field too. Not only does it potentially give us more diversity in looks, you put Olsen on the same side with, say, Muhammad, and maybe Muhammad finds some more holes if Olsen stretches. Put Olsen with Berrian, and maybe Berrian can find some 1 v 1 matchups deep. But most importantly, especially tonight, 2 TE's could help chip against their ends and provide some safety valves for Griese.

Bearsfan123
10-07-2007, 09:03 PM
so pathetic offensively, if not for Tillman defensively as well. Just bad. Lets face it this year we are BAD. Also, Griese is running short on leash left. Hes doing nothing to make the offense move.

bearsfan_51
10-07-2007, 09:12 PM
I actually think the offense has been alright. It's the defense that is letting us down.

awfullyquiet
10-07-2007, 09:55 PM
finally we see a little out of bradley.
and momentum. and getting a positive turnover ratio.
we should win this then.

this is the winning game right here... we win this, i think we are the top of the NFC again. showing that we can grind it out again, and make a tough win vs a good team in the packers.

bearsfan_51
10-07-2007, 09:57 PM
Woah...slow down. This is a team with lots of problems.

awfullyquiet
10-07-2007, 10:19 PM
Woah...slow down. This is a team with lots of problems.

the team has consistently underperformed. when they stop underperforming, like they are now, the problems will disappear (oh, and the return of some injured starters too will help).

i think you're overly-nay-saying here.