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ShutDwn
09-17-2007, 06:28 PM
I don't really disagree with anything you said. Of course, the issue comes back to the draft. I'm sure if we had another DT emerge (or if Jenkins wasn't a fat slob who had rehabbed properly) we don't throw money away on Kemo. I'm sure if Colin Branch was even the least bit competent, he's on this team starting right now. I'm sure if Nate Salley wasn't injured he'd be out there, despite my questions about his ability.

And as you saw, you're ok to go out and buy 1-2 players. Lucas I think fits that bill, provided he plays like he should. Even if he doesn't, Marshall is there who I honestly believe might be the third best player on our team. So we're a Kemoeatu injury away from being no different from the Ravens. Harris could fit under the "got him while he was young" and Cooper is well, whatever, but safeties are basically "role players who fit the coaches philosophy" as your quote indicates under Fox anyway.

Also, it's a bit of a flawed argument because the shelf life of a successful baseball player is a lot longer than that of football. There's guys over 40 in baseball now who have seen 5 different contracts. Of course most teams in the NFL are constructed with homegrown players, once you hit 30 your career is basically over. Mike Minter just retired at 33. Alfonso Soriano just signed an 8 year contract at 31

I think as Panther fans we should be the first to throw the "on paper" argument out the window with regards to our front four. Kemo is Kemo, Jenkins is a question mark at this point but he was NOT pro bowl caliber last year regardless of his selection and Rucker is 32. Objectively, our DLine is Peppers and 3 guys.

I didn't like bringing Morgan back either, but I think that was more Richardson than anyone else, same with Foster. So what now, we have to get rid of the owner?

I love Lucas, and unlike Kemo, I can see that he cares. I am not hating Lucas, We tried to fill the hole without really taking care of it. Your defenses scheme and running it right should be the first priority, not talent, that will come as your team gets better. I think we have failed to get this team to run correctly and have just tried to get guys who we think we can just plug in. Lucas has had a great year here, Kemo hasn't. People will say he doesn't show up in the stats, but that is because he is being pushed 5 yards off the line of scrimmage. (btw, I'm not really using the Baseball argument anyway, it obviously isn't a direct correlation but it has a bit of a point)

Yeah, our "paper lion" defense is not what it is thought to be. Jenkins didn't deserve the pro bowl selection, Rucker has lost a step or three, and Kemo is a fat man.

I would much rather see Damion Lewis in there in replacement of Kemo. At least then we will have someone else who can rush the passer, and though people say he isn't good against the run, neither was Kemo. Actually, twice Lewis brought Green down in the backfield.
_____

Getting Jon Beason was a great pick so far, Kalil will grow, and hopefully Dwayne gives us something to look forward to at the other WR position but I don't know if he is the answer. The whole USC WR thing isn't working out to well for people latley.

I think I said in this thread a while ago that I viewed this year as a growing year and I think I am right about that.

We really need a solid draft next year and we can get back into things. Also, another thing to remember in the John Fox situation is that the Giants job is possibly going to be open soon. I wouldn't doubt that he would jump on it if he doesn't do well here.

I don't really prefer Cohwer, but it looks like that would be a probably move. I would prefer someone from the Ravens or Patriots defensive coaching tree. That, or possibly Ron Rivera, or a guy I just thought of, Mike Singletary.

Singletary would bring some great intensity to our defense, though I don't know if he is qualified. I think I read something about him being DC for someone last year. Just throwin it out there.

JPF
09-17-2007, 08:42 PM
I don't know that Cowher is a good fit. I don't know why, but I just have a feeling that he'll be a letdown for whatever team he goes to when he decides he's ready to coach again.

A name I've milled over some is one of the Ryan brothers. Rex is the DC for the Ravens and Rob is DC for the Raiders. I can't really decide between the two which I'd prefer, though if I had to I'd probably lean towards Rob at this point.

ShutDwn
09-17-2007, 10:10 PM
I don't know that Cowher is a good fit. I don't know why, but I just have a feeling that he'll be a letdown for whatever team he goes to when he decides he's ready to coach again.

A name I've milled over some is one of the Ryan brothers. Rex is the DC for the Ravens and Rob is DC for the Raiders. I can't really decide between the two which I'd prefer, though if I had to I'd probably lean towards Rob at this point.

Yeah, it depends on if they bring their philosophies with them. Some guys like Dick Lebaue (spelled wrong) never made it as HC but are excellent coordinators.

Fox seems like the Cohwer type of coach that is more of the leader then the real schemer behind the scenes like a Belichick, or a Bill Walsh where the HC is really hands on and calls and organizes a side of the ball.

I don't like the idea of Cohwer really either, but he is a better leader, a lot more animated than Fox. We could use some damn emotion. But I don't think we need him, we need someone who will bring an all business attitude and get these guys playing correctly in their defense.

ShutDwn
09-17-2007, 10:26 PM
At least I can be proud that we have such an amazing player like Steve Smith. I mean, that late TD is the best individual effort the league has seen this year.

Damn he brings something else to the game. Too bad he has no running mate.

JPF
09-18-2007, 07:32 AM
What I see is a breakdown in our coaching, and it seems to show up mostly on the defensive side.

The offense I kind of give a pass to since there's a new coordinator and a lack of talent at the receiver position outside of Smitty. Hopefully Jarrett isn't as far back in his development as you would think with having been inactive thus far on gameday with no better than Colbert & Carter are producing. The biggest problem I have on offense is that we can't seem to get our running game going, but with teams knowing they only have to focus on Smitty in the passing game....

Special teams play has seemed to continually decline over the past few years. Especially our coverage. Though returns have been nothing to get excited about either.

The defense is the side I'm the most annoyed with.

Pep is supposedly among the best in the league at his position though he tends to disappear too much at times, Marshall is a nice nickelback, Beason looks like he will end up being an absolute beast on the field.

What annoys me the most I think is how someone continues to ignore the safety position. I've just came to the conclusion that Fox totally undervalues it despite the fact that most of the top defenses in the league tend to have excellent safety play while we can't seem to manage so much as 'decent' play from ours.

As Batman pointed out, it's hard to blitz when you don't have solid safeties, but my problem with us not blitzing is that our safeties are getting beat anyway. At least if we blitzed once in a while it might force the Qb to make a bad decision. I'm not saying we should blitz every down, but more than 3 or 4 times a game would be nice.

I'm curious as to how much our coaching staff hurt Thomas Davis' development when they switched him around 800 times his rookie year.

I'm curious why they brought Morgan back. I hope he stays healthy, but it's almost a given that he'll be done for the season before the season hits double digit weeks. I've also not see him be the difference maker he's always been thought to be. Then again, I'm also curious as to why he was responsible for covering Andre Johnson on that one touchdown (if you didn't read it, check Panthers.com, the Foxhole from yesterday has Fox "explaining", for lack of a better term, that Morgan was responsible for Johnson by design).

I'm curious as to why they seem to have so much faith in Jenkins and Kemo when it seems obvious that we get more out of Damoine Lewis. Jenkins has flashes, but only one or two a game and he nowhere near deserved his Pro Bowl appearance last year.

Gamble and Lucas I have mixed feelings on. One play they have nice tight coverage that Peyton Manning couldn't fit a ball to the receiver in, then the next they're hardly even in the picture when their man catches the ball. I've yet to decipher if that's a breakdown in the scheme or if those two are just that inconsistent. I'm leaning towards a breakdown in the scheme.

It doesn't seem like the defense has any kind of chemistry as a unit either. Watch a Ravens game. What do you see when Ed Reed makes a big play? You see Ray Lewis over there bumping chests with him congratulating him. When was the last time you saw any of that emotion or intensity out of our defense?

SchizophrenicBatman
09-18-2007, 08:55 AM
Gamble and Lucas are hard to decipher because we play so much zone. I don't think that fits Gamble well at all, but he's done better this year I guess since he's finally figured it out a bit. And btw, I saw the first TD pass to Andre Johnson again. What happened? Thomas Davis was sent on a blitz, Schaub picked it up right before he got drilled and Johnson walked into the endzone. Davis wouldn't have been able to break up the pass but Johnson strolled right through the field he vacated for the easy TD.

Of course, if Deke Cooper didnt blow the coverage by running into Gamble, or Chris Harris knew how to take an angle and not be slow as ****, it wouldnt have mattered, but there it is.

On the safety issue, I blame Fox mostly since it seems to be such an inherent part of his mantra and he's probably corrupted the front office into thinking it's not a problem but again, if Marty Hurney was a competent GM it wouldn't matter. If a good safety just fell into Fox's lap, he would play him. He'd still have to be a run first guy, but Michael Griffin is a solid player while being run first in philosophy. Look at the Chargers GM, he had CONTROL of that team so much that he just tossed aside Schottenheimer and hired Norv freakin' Turner in his place. I'm not saying it needs to be taken to that level, since that's probably the other extreme, but the GM needs to have some player control, and it seems ours has none

ShutDwn
09-18-2007, 09:17 AM
The Offense HAS shown improvement. I didn't expect them to be able to be dominant right off the bat. Jake has looked worlds apart from last year, and we finally have a TE in King who is going to be pretty good. But our constant shuffling of the oline doesn't help us at all. Pick a freaking combination and go with it.

I look at it this way. Contrasting the Bears secondary and the Ravens secondary there is an obvious gap in talent. Nobody from the Bears can touch Reed or McAlister. But they are just as effective in their scheme. I don't see that we have an actual scheme other than we spent big bucks on the front four and corners so we can completely neglect the safety position.

Look at the Patriots, they have let guys like Ty Law go and replaced them with third and fourth round picks who are now budding stars. It is because they have a scheme and players come in and learn it and are able to be protected and play with in it.

The Panthers from '03 wasn't as talented as this team right now is.

We were starting:
Reggie Howard
Terry cousin for a while
Ricky manning at the end
Deion Grant
Greg Favors

Ricky Manning was good for that year, and Deion Grant was a little better than what he have now, comparable to Harris.

I'm not ranting about how much more talented we are now, because we aren't a ton more talented. However, I would take that defense over this one any day, because that team played their defense and they played with passion and they played hard.

All of their play or bad play is going to result in less trust in the defense they are playing. Nobody wants to get beat in coverage, but thats what happened to them all game long.

Better question about the defense showing emotion, desire or even a little pride: When was the last time you saw us stop a team on 3rd and one? A goal line stand? Why don't I see guys hit the offense so hard it looks like they ran into a brick wall? I see this from the Patriots and Bears all the time. The Panthers hit him at the first down marker and get pushed back a yard or two.


Gamble and Lucas are hard to decipher because we play so much zone. I don't think that fits Gamble well at all, but he's done better this year I guess since he's finally figured it out a bit. And btw, I saw the first TD pass to Andre Johnson again. What happened? Thomas Davis was sent on a blitz, Schaub picked it up right before he got drilled and Johnson walked into the endzone. Davis wouldn't have been able to break up the pass but Johnson strolled right through the field he vacated for the easy TD.

Of course, if Deke Cooper didnt blow the coverage by running into Gamble, or Chris Harris knew how to take an angle and not be slow as ****, it wouldnt have mattered, but there it is.

On the safety issue, I blame Fox mostly since it seems to be such an inherent part of his mantra and he's probably corrupted the front office into thinking it's not a problem but again, if Marty Hurney was a competent GM it wouldn't matter. If a good safety just fell into Fox's lap, he would play him. He'd still have to be a run first guy, but Michael Griffin is a solid player while being run first in philosophy. Look at the Chargers GM, he had CONTROL of that team so much that he just tossed aside Schottenheimer and hired Norv freakin' Turner in his place. I'm not saying it needs to be taken to that level, since that's probably the other extreme, but the GM needs to have some player control, and it seems ours has none

Gamble hasn't let much up at all, though he could be used better. I think he may be becoming our best corner.

The blitz is a double edged sword. It can burn you, I wouldn't be surprised if a larger percent of offensive big plays in the NFL come during a blitz. But I wouldn't be surprised if a larger percent of big defensive plays is during blitzes.

As much as Fox wants to hides them, we put them on the field and we have to do something to not let them get picked apart because the QB has time to drop back and scan to his third option. But, we are pretty much awful at blitzes, I don't know why they can never work like they do for the Bears, they just always get picked up. I think we show our hands wayyy to early. I also think that our Dline does a bad job of opening holes. Blitzes are organized, but the Panthers just seem to rush the passer and send an extra guy in a random place. Usually that guy just gets caught with an oline man because the dline didn't occupy hem and tear open a lane to blitz through.

ShutDwn
09-18-2007, 09:35 AM
Andre Johnson said this:
“My rookie year we played against Carolina,” Johnson explained. “We knew that if things are going good for them, they’re going to play. When things are not going good, they kind of like just lay back.

“Once we tied the game up, we knew that they were rolling. We didn’t feel like they could stop us.”

It is kind of hard to ignore since it is exactly right.

Fox's luster from the 03 season is fading pretty fast right now. If it weren't for Smitty in 05, I don't think we were .500

JPF
09-18-2007, 01:06 PM
What paper was that interview in?

FirstAndGoal
09-18-2007, 05:21 PM
while everyone's made some good points, i think people tend to overlook the fact that we're 1-1, not 0-342. we could still go 11-5 or 10-6 and make the playoffs.

with that said, we do need to make some improvements. i saw two general problems from last week's game. the run d didn't look horrible, we lost on the pass d. I dont think the secondary played horribly, their problem was that they had all the time in the world to throw because our front four didnt generate any pass rush. the few times we did blitz, we forced schaub to scramble and throw the ball away (i.e. the grounding call). so while we dont have ideal safeties to blitz, it is still better than giving the opposing quarterback all the time in the world to throw.
i think our other problem was our run blocking. foster and deangelo had no holes to run through, which made us one-dimensional. i dont exactly have any idea how to solve this. hopefully its just taking a while to learn the ZBS, or maybe we will do better with Bridges, but i dont know. we ran well against st louis, but we also did last year. i just hope the offensive line can figure out how to open holes, it would do wonders for our offense.

ShutDwn
09-18-2007, 05:40 PM
while everyone's made some good points, i think people tend to overlook the fact that we're 1-1, not 0-342. we could still go 11-5 or 10-6 and make the playoffs.

with that said, we do need to make some improvements. i saw two general problems from last week's game. the run d didn't look horrible, we lost on the pass d. I dont think the secondary played horribly, their problem was that they had all the time in the world to throw because our front four didnt generate any pass rush. the few times we did blitz, we forced schaub to scramble and throw the ball away (i.e. the grounding call). so while we dont have ideal safeties to blitz, it is still better than giving the opposing quarterback all the time in the world to throw.
i think our other problem was our run blocking. foster and deangelo had no holes to run through, which made us one-dimensional. i dont exactly have any idea how to solve this. hopefully its just taking a while to learn the ZBS, or maybe we will do better with Bridges, but i dont know. we ran well against st louis, but we also did last year. i just hope the offensive line can figure out how to open holes, it would do wonders for our offense.


It doesn't matter what our record is. Offensive struggles are accepted because we know they are coming with a new offense. But the defense isn't looking any better than it did. Still absolutely no passion, no desire, no execution, nothing.

People say it is the players job to execute, but it is the coaches job to make them execute. It's the coaches job to get them ready, which they obviously weren't as we got killed be the same thing we always do: An ok TE and the naked bootleg. It was like we didn't know that the Texans coach was the OC for the Broncos.

Blitz the Safeties then, we can't have our guys in coverage that long. You have to be able to devise some kind of blitz.

I can't believe that we would be absolulety unable to get by with Chris Harris and Cooper while the Patriots started rookie Randal G-a-y, a WR playing corner, and I don't even know who was at the other safety position. They didn't back off. I don't see why we should continue to sit back and pretend that our front four is the best in the league and can get pressure against six blockers.

This was a reality check to Fox:

You aren't injured, you are healthy, and you don't have an excuse. Your front four is not elite, and neither are any of the other players.

ShutDwn
09-19-2007, 10:26 AM
You guys should read this. It is a perfect picture of what is going on.


http://www.heraldonline.com/247/story/123888.html

SchizophrenicBatman
09-22-2007, 02:28 AM
Heart and grit articles can suck it in my opinion. I'd love it if we could have Smith's at every position, but I'd be more than fine if we had guys like Holt who just go out there and do their damn job. The Pats get described as "businesslike" because they win, would they be emotionless if they were 1-1 right now? I will say this, if Fox loses the team then it's over, but I'm not convinced he has quite yet

you want a good article?

http://sports.aol.com/story/_a/panthers-much-hyped-defensive-line-has/n20070920080909990002?ecid=RSS0001

touches on what we've been talking about regarding the DLine lately. On a side note, this may be the best piece of journalism I have ever read on the Panthers. That says more about how awful the guys who cover them are than anything else, though

by the way, you do realize who this paragraph is mainly calling out, right?

Over the past few years, they've leaned heavily in the draft toward accomplished players from major programs. Having guys from Southern Cal, Ohio State, Virginia Tech and Miami is a good thing, because that's where the talented kids go. But the flipside to having so many high-profile rookies is they've never had to scrap to be great -- they're maybe a little too cool for the proceedings.

ShutDwn
09-22-2007, 10:11 AM
Heart and grit articles can suck it in my opinion. I'd love it if we could have Smith's at every position, but I'd be more than fine if we had guys like Holt who just go out there and do their damn job. The Pats get described as "businesslike" because they win, would they be emotionless if they were 1-1 right now? I will say this, if Fox loses the team then it's over, but I'm not convinced he has quite yet

you want a good article?

http://sports.aol.com/story/_a/panthers-much-hyped-defensive-line-has/n20070920080909990002?ecid=RSS0001

touches on what we've been talking about regarding the DLine lately. On a side note, this may be the best piece of journalism I have ever read on the Panthers. That says more about how awful the guys who cover them are than anything else, though

by the way, you do realize who this paragraph is mainly calling out, right?

The patriots are not just business like, if you think they are you haven't watched them at all this season of past seasons. They aren't all little Marvin Harrison's out there. They are all play with tenacity and right now a ton of anger. They have desire to win and desire to take the other team out of the game by the second quarter.

You're going to have to deal with heart and grit articles though, because this team has none. I guess you would rather have the Julius Peppers we have now, versus one with a Steve Smith, never say dies mentality? A Peppers that doesn't take half the season off and feels good about his production.

Torry Holt is a finesse WR. Offensive players typically aren't raw raw, pound your fist, on the field intensity guys. You will never find a SB caliber defense that was complacent and just business like. They all wanted to dominate the other teams ass break them.

I've read the AP article, doesn't state anything other than the obvious. Of course our production has gone down, we added a 300 pound punching bag who gets no pass rush and is constantly stuck in on passing downs. Rucker is getting older and got injured last year. Peppers is inconsistent, and Jenkins is not the pass rusher he used to be.

The article should also look at the point that in 02 and 03, we had our most stable Linebackers. In 02, we had so many sacks from non dlineman. Fields was a beast, even Corners had sacks. That is going to open it up quite a bit.

That article still plays into the point that we haven't gone about improving the team the right way. In 03 we had guys who knew the defense and played it so well. We had starters like Grant, Howard, Cousin, Manning Jr. and the other LB who's name escapes me. Cohesion of a unit will lead to better production for all parts of the defense. But instead of building a team or defense, we built a squad of 11 individuals that don't play with any cohesion. Then we go and do things like keep the Reggie Howards out of loyalty rather than keeping the Jarrett Bush's who play with determination.

I don't care if you don't like the articles about heart and grit. It doesn't really matter either, because we haven't played really really well on defense since 04, where this team got a reality check and started playing with passion.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-22-2007, 01:03 PM
I'm not saying theyre meaningless, just that they're way outplayed. I dont want the Peppers we've seen so far, but I'd take Peppers when he's on any day of the week. And when he's on he's really not anymore of an intensity guy than he is now. Attitude matters a whole lot more in football than any other sport, but it still doesnt matter that much. Remember that my favorite guys on the team are Smith, Marshall, McClover, DeAngelo, etc so I'm not completely throwing it out the window. But if we play "fired up" it won't change the fact that our safeties are slower than our LBs, our LBs all have flaws and our DL is mediocre. If anything, it would make it worse since they'd play with one track minds (IE McClover and pass rush vs sucking at run containment)

And remember, I thought getting rid of Jarrett Bush was just as idiotic as anyone here. The one thing that really bothers me about Fox is loyalty, but you're the one preaching cohesiveness (which I dont particularily disagree with, but I wouldnt let it get in the way of having better players out there)

SchizophrenicBatman
09-23-2007, 06:25 PM
MVP today: DeShaun Foster

I wish they had gone to him more earlier, he always destroys the Falcons. Smith got shut down by Hall on all but a couple plays (and he only gets 12 yards on the stat sheet) but that string of penalties was HUGE and turned the game around. Also he did have Hall burned on the PI, that was a sure TD but Hall made a smart play by dragging him down

Other than that, well...I'll try to keep it brief. I want to feel good that we won, but man was that an ugly game other than the result, Foster and Jeff King. Very discouraging play in the first half and I'm starting to teeter on that Fire Fox bandwagon. The soft zone BS on defense is getting old, but we also got burned on blitzes too. It's weird saying this, since it almost never happens in our favor, but I think we were given a game by the refs

To end on a happy note, nice to see that we have a backup who can come in and not be woefully incompetent. Good job subbing in by Carr with the Michael Jackson gloves and all

ShutDwn
09-23-2007, 06:43 PM
MVP today: DeShaun Foster

I wish they had gone to him more earlier, he always destroys the Falcons. Smith got shut down by Hall on all but a couple plays (and he only gets 12 yards on the stat sheet) but that string of penalties was HUGE and turned the game around. Also he did have Hall burned on the PI, that was a sure TD but Hall made a smart play by dragging him down

Other than that, well...I'll try to keep it brief. I want to feel good that we won, but man was that an ugly game other than the result, Foster and Jeff King. Very discouraging play in the first half and I'm starting to teeter on that Fire Fox bandwagon. The soft zone BS on defense is getting old, but we also got burned on blitzes too. It's weird saying this, since it almost never happens in our favor, but I think we were given a game by the refs

To end on a happy note, nice to see that we have a backup who can come in and not be woefully incompetent. Good job subbing in by Carr with the Michael Jackson gloves and all

I'm in complete in agreement. Ugly game on defense, completely awful. I though Jake was playing pretty well, Foster and King were great today too. However, it is hard to tell how it was different because Foster has made running like that a trend against them.

On the other side, the stats don't lie, our record when Foster goes 20 plus carries or over 100 yards is pretty damn good. I don't have the number right now though.

I seriously don't know if the coaches are able to see correctly. Because if they could they would see wide receivers running shallow 5-10 yard routes and picking up good yardage. I don't know how we won with our defense like that. Peppers continues to suck this season, there is no sugar coating it. He got no push, and I'm not surprised that some nobody LT didn't get pushed back at all, seems to happen a lot. When we blitzed we did better in my opinion. Chris Harris was everywhere, the Bears really know how to teach the art of stripping the ball. He does it so well, I'm glad he carried it over here. Although he isn't the most talented, I like his attitude and the play against the run.

Regarding the refs though, I could see why someone would say they gave it to us. But I think both the calls on Hall could be justified in an acceptable way to the Referees commissioner. The shoving one could very well have been trying to stop the yelling and get them to back off. Granted it wasn't in the face, it had nothing to do with the play, the other was described as abusive words towards the ref. They can call that and they did, Steve knows how refs can be bastards and I think he bated Hall.

And yes, Carr needs to cut his hair, shave his facial hair and get rid of the gloves. His jersey also looks stupid.

JPF
09-23-2007, 06:54 PM
I believe we're 21-2 now when Foster gets 15 or more carries.

ShutDwn
09-23-2007, 06:58 PM
I believe we're 21-2 now when Foster gets 15 or more carries.

Yeah, that is correct. We need him to get the ball. He also had a really nice catch, that was fantastic.

Jake played really well, pretty calm even though he had Abraham in his back pocket the whole game.

BTW, if you haven't noticed, we have a TE!!!!!! Great game for Jeff, 4 catches, 56 yards and a TD.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-23-2007, 08:47 PM
The Foster thing is a little misleading. You run the ball to eat clock when you're winning, I imagine most teams have good numbers with their RBs getting a certain threshold of carries. If you forcefeed Foster 20 carries a game that isnt an auto-win. Though it is extremely frustrating when you see us running well and we abandon it for 2 quarters

SchizophrenicBatman
09-23-2007, 11:27 PM
Reading some of the post game quotes reminded me that I forgot to mention Gamble. It's only 3 games, but he has been very impressive this year


PANTHERS CB CHRIS GAMBLE
On his relative shut down corner play:
I just played aggressively and waited to make a play on the ball. They just didnt come my way much today and thats OK. Ill let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Hall get the attention. Im just out there trying to make plays.


I have been his biggest critic but that is a real mature quote, especially for someone like him who has been pegged as a DeAngelo Hall type player at times. Of course you want your CBs to have confidence and be a little cocky but you also dont want them losing you a game with dumb penalties by putting their own play over the team's

Turtlepower
09-24-2007, 12:11 PM
I was watching the Will Ferrell skit with him playing USC's conditioning coach Chuck Berry and I was wondering how well Ryan Kalil is doing. Are his talents being wasted at guard?

ShutDwn
09-24-2007, 02:18 PM
Reading some of the post game quotes reminded me that I forgot to mention Gamble. It's only 3 games, but he has been very impressive this year


PANTHERS CB CHRIS GAMBLE
On his relative shut down corner play:
I just played aggressively and waited to make a play on the ball. They just didnt come my way much today and thats OK. Ill let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Hall get the attention. Im just out there trying to make plays.


I have been his biggest critic but that is a real mature quote, especially for someone like him who has been pegged as a DeAngelo Hall type player at times. Of course you want your CBs to have confidence and be a little cocky but you also dont want them losing you a game with dumb penalties by putting their own play over the team's

Gamble has been amazingly quiet, and I saw that in the absolute most positive way possible. His play has been outstanding really. He seems to be concentrating a great amount and playing with a lot of intelligence rather than relying on athleticism as much.

Lucas has been thrown at a lot more, likely because of Gamble's play, and the fact that Lucas is a little down on confidence and a bigger risk taker now. But a confident Lucas is great, hopefully he gets it back soon.

Gamble is worlds apart from last year, he looks collected instead of constantly frazzled.

Also, I think this is a step in the right direction:


http://www.charlotte.com/panthers/story/290213.html


That was enough to get the Panthers to 2-1 and set up a showdown of NFC South leaders when Tampa Bay comes to Bank of America Stadium next week, but one Carolina player still was harping on the theme of composure in the locker room.

"I don't think how we played on the field today would have been capable of winning the Super Bowl," Jenkins said. "I think that we have a ways to go and that's what we have to work toward."

After a season-opening victory in St. Louis, Jenkins made a similar comment. Then, the Panthers came out and were slugged by Houston in their home opener. Jenkins said the rest of the Panthers need to take a lesson from Smith and not get too caught up in the emotion of a single win in a 16-game season.

"I think some of the things that are the problem with us, we don't adjust to them," Jenkins said. "I'm going to get in trouble for saying that, but it's an honest thing. I think some of the things that we have issues with, we don't address them and I think they need to be addressed.

"I'm not calling out one person or any group. I'm saying every person on this team can do something better -- players, coaches, whoever. If a lot of people can learn to be humble and look at themselves and see what they can do better before they start pointing the finger, I think that will make us a bigger team.".


Finally.

ShutDwn
09-24-2007, 04:04 PM
"It's an issue and I think it's been overlooked in the past," Jenkins said. "The issue is that we don't handle success well. ... We won (Sunday). But can we win again? And that, I guess, is a challenge to my team if I'm saying it in the paper. We won. Can we put two together? Can we put three together? Can we find a way to win without getting all full of ourselves."

http://www.charlotte.com/panthers/story/291141.html

I recommend reading the entire thing. Someone should rip the "c" off Pepper's jersey and sew it to Jenkins.

Players naturally do this usually spare a few teams/players, and it is the coaches job and the leaders of that unit to keep them focused. We have no leader on defense, and our offense has two leaders. The offense looks to be steadily improving, though it is hard to measure against the Falcons defense. The defense seems to be steadily declining.

I don't want to really say it is because of Minter either, because these same problems were here when he was. He was out of position as much as anyone last year.

On a different subject though, I don't think we can just keep rushing four and expect to somehow pull a pass rush out of our ass. Alright, here is how I see it. Big offensive plays happen a lot on blitzes, the secondary and linebackers are most vulnerable. Big defensive plays also happen on blitzes too though.

Now, someone tell me the difference between these two drives

Drive A: without blitzing that lasts 12 plays 80 yards and goes for a TD

Drive B: with blitzing that lasts 6 plays, 80 yards, and goes for a TD

Not much other than TOP and plays. BUT, my point is: why do these "big plays" matter so much? We are already giving up huge drives and we just sit back and watch them march down the field.

Perhaps morale would be worse if we gave up more big plays. But I scratch my head at that because I think letting a team consistently dominate you for that long is demoralizing, a lot more pathetic then a big play.

What about the safeties? They aren't good enough you might say, we have to protect them, blitzing would leave them vulnerable. Yet letting the QB have 6-7 seconds to throw is protecting them? The best way to protect a weak link is to get in a QBs face as fast as possible. Players aren't interested in a defense where they sit back and let jounrymen QBs throw for 300 yards. They are interested in making plays, and blitzing would let them do that.

In my mind I hope that we will start blitzing, and get some rythem going, get some energy in the defense. Then once that happens we may be able to back off a little and hopefully a re-engergized d-line will take over.

Anyway those are my thoughts, I look forward to your guys'.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-24-2007, 05:47 PM
I was watching the Will Ferrell skit with him playing USC's conditioning coach Chuck Berry and I was wondering how well Ryan Kalil is doing. Are his talents being wasted at guard?

Kalil is a rookie and looks the part. He was not good at guard for the first two games of the year and is now on the bench. However, he is doing better than his teammate, Jarrett, who hasn't even made it off the inactive list

re: Blitzing and Jenkins, yesterday was ridiculous. There's a difference between playing "bend, but dont break" and that crap they drew up. It's Joey freaking Harrington! Put some bodies in his face and it's game over. That said, we blitzed some and it didnt help because it just got picked up. It comes down to the front 4. Even on blitzes the line is still 4/5, 4/6 or 4/7 of the equation and they are not doing their job so far. I cant wait til we play the Colts and Manning throws for 700 yards

The thing with the defense we play is that, our safeties are so bad that I dont think it even matters. Remember last year the plays at the end of games with Cooley and Colston where the safeties just ****ed up even in prevent coverage and it lead to long TDs? Well yesterday one of the safeties (I believe Manuel) just fell down in front of Roddy White on his long TD. Lucas still should have made the tackle, but the safety made a bigger error.

ShutDwn
09-24-2007, 06:29 PM
Kalil is a rookie and looks the part. He was not good at guard for the first two games of the year and is now on the bench. However, he is doing better than his teammate, Jarrett, who hasn't even made it off the inactive list

re: Blitzing and Jenkins, yesterday was ridiculous. There's a difference between playing "bend, but dont break" and that crap they drew up. It's Joey freaking Harrington! Put some bodies in his face and it's game over. That said, we blitzed some and it didnt help because it just got picked up. It comes down to the front 4. Even on blitzes the line is still 4/5, 4/6 or 4/7 of the equation and they are not doing their job so far. I cant wait til we play the Colts and Manning throws for 700 yards

The thing with the defense we play is that, our safeties are so bad that I dont think it even matters. Remember last year the plays at the end of games with Cooley and Colston where the safeties just ****ed up even in prevent coverage and it lead to long TDs? Well yesterday one of the safeties (I believe Manuel) just fell down in front of Roddy White on his long TD. Lucas still should have made the tackle, but the safety made a bigger error.

Agreed we didn't get to him on blitzes, but we came closer then we did without.

For what reason I don't know, we aren't good at executing blitzes, and that needs to change. You better be damn good at getting pressure with your front four if you don't know how to perform a blitz. I don't know what it is, but we always get picked up and it just forms a big line with no penetration. We probably only have one blitz play and expect it to work haha.

Seriously though, Harrington had been sacked 13 times in two games!!!! THAT ISN'T FUNNY. If Fox doesn't see some thing is wrong by now, get that man a guide dog, because he is blind.

Enough John, it isn't what it is.

Garcia and Galloway are going to rip us apart.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-25-2007, 12:18 AM
I wanted to put this is in my sig, but it looked too big

I can kind of give an example: When you win a game, you win a game and that's it. It's on to the next game. When you win a game and you go into the next game and come out and score 14 points and then you coast because you feel like you won the Super Bowl, that's when you have a problem and that's what I'm talking about.

I hope Jenkins can do a Bulger on Jeff Garcia early next week because if he doesnt, there is no chance we win

iloxygenil
09-25-2007, 12:26 AM
*hats off* to the Panthers. I blame it on the refs but you guys did what good teams do and took advantage of everything that was given to you. You capitalized on it and got the win. I'm not happy with the ref, I feel like we got jobbed, but I'd rather be in close games and show that winning spirit and end up with a higher draft pick this year lol. I want us to be competitive but this team doesn't seem built offensively for the playoffs yet.

But good job guys, and good luck next week. The Bucs aren't that solid of a squad, a healthy Steve Smith can destroy that defense, and Deangelo Williams is a great back. But here's to a good game next week =)

ShutDwn
09-25-2007, 06:24 AM
I wanted to put this is in my sig, but it looked too big



I hope Jenkins can do a Bulger on Jeff Garcia early next week because if he doesnt, there is no chance we win

It is looking more and more like Bulger getting dinged and Pace going out were larger contributers to that game then previously thought. I wanted to give the Panthers some credit, but it doesn't look like they deserve much.

ShutDwn
09-28-2007, 03:35 PM
James Anderson is starting at MLB ehh? I wonder what happened to Seward? Never panned out I guess.

ShutDwn
09-29-2007, 11:08 PM
Well, this will probably be my last post before at least halftime. Hope we do better than I expect, but I doubt it.

I wonder how Carr will do.

ShutDwn
09-30-2007, 06:44 PM
Comments after game:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA


more later.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-30-2007, 06:55 PM
Comments after game:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA


more later.

sums it up. not really much to add on my side. I didnt fully pay attention to how we lost so much, I was pretty distracted because of the Mets collapse. But this was noticeably ugly (and worst of all...we saw it coming)

ShutDwn
09-30-2007, 07:14 PM
sums it up. not really much to add on my side. I didnt fully pay attention to how we lost so much, I was pretty distracted because of the Mets collapse. But this was noticeably ugly (and worst of all...we saw it coming)

Exactly, it was impossible to take seriously when you know they are going to suck.

So much wrong I don't even know where to start. Obviously I hate Fox right now and he needs to go. This team needs a new start next year. Tired of his same old ********.

This is my impression of Fox after the game:

Asked about the defensive performance:

"Well I thought we played pretty well, we gave up two early touchdowns but after that we were pretty solid limiting them to six points and a TOP of 34 minutes." *chews gum*

Carr is awful, I refuse to believe that their coverage was perfect.

ShutDwn
09-30-2007, 09:05 PM
Jenkins quickly becoming a favorite of mine:

http://blogs.charlotte.com/panthers/

SchizophrenicBatman
09-30-2007, 11:49 PM
haha I hope you made that Fox quote up

The Bucs could have scored 60 on us, but Gruden lightened up after the first two TDs

And I just came here to post that Jenkins speech. Amazing how the only two players who have showed up on defense this year were black sheep in years past, Gamble and Jenkins. It's so funny, because the Panthers season is so similar to the Mets season I just watched crash down. They have a beautiful opportunity in a weak conference and theyre going to throw it away by being gutless underachievers with terrible coaching.

Not going to psychoanalyze the players this week too much because pretty much all of them aside Jenkins and surprisingly Kemo at the goal line sucked. I will say that James Anderson should never, ever play MLB again in his life, and probably hasn't before last week.

JPF
10-01-2007, 12:37 AM
Anderson said in an article I read that he'd never played MLB before. Seems like he said he's played some QB and S, but never MLB.

I really hate the position we're in right now, and don't take what I'm about to say as 'hoping we lose' because I don't.

With our luck we'll probably crap our way to 7 wins, just enough to miss the playoffs and just enough to miss a top 10 pick and grab someone that could come in and make an immediate impact.

I'm tired of being mediocre and that's all we've really ever been.

By keeping Trgo after last season we missed out on a potential great DC in Steve Spagnuolo (was the Eagles LB coach now the Giants DC-and no, I don't base my opinion of him on the Sunday night game, he's someone I've been touting on the Panthers board I usually hang out on as an upgrade over Trgo for two years).

At this point, I really don't know what the answer to our problems are, but I'm becoming more and more convinced John Fox isn't part of it.

ShutDwn
10-01-2007, 06:09 AM
Some kind of spark is needed here, and going out and overpaying free agents isn't the answer. It's time to send the message that the Panthers are serious about winning.

ShutDwn
10-02-2007, 05:05 PM
Anyone else really dissapointed in DeAngelo Williams? He isn't making too many plays and breaking many tackles...

Modano
10-03-2007, 01:38 PM
Anyone else really dissapointed in DeAngelo Williams? He isn't making too many plays and breaking many tackles...

I wanna ask you Panthers fan a question about DeAngelo, because I have him on my fantasy team in a dinasty league. I've drafted him last year and I thought he outplayed Foster but he wasn't getting the majority of the carries because Fox never bench a veteran for a rookie. I expected an increase of work for him this year, but he's getting just a few touches so far. Do you think his workload will increase?

ShutDwn
10-03-2007, 02:31 PM
I wanna ask you Panthers fan a question about DeAngelo, because I have him on my fantasy team in a dinasty league. I've drafted him last year and I thought he outplayed Foster but he wasn't getting the majority of the carries because Fox never bench a veteran for a rookie. I expected an increase of work for him this year, but he's getting just a few touches so far. Do you think his workload will increase?

Not if Foster keeps doing well with his touches and Williams not as well.

JPF
10-04-2007, 10:37 PM
I gotta agree with Shutdown.

Foster's on pace for 1200+ yards rushing & almost 300 yards receiving. The only knock on him is the fumbles, but he's much more effective as a runner right now and the fumbles are as much on our coaching staff as they are him. It was a knock he had coming into the league and they've done nothing to fix it.

ShutDwn
10-06-2007, 01:00 AM
I gotta agree with Shutdown.

Foster's on pace for 1200+ yards rushing & almost 300 yards receiving. The only knock on him is the fumbles, but he's much more effective as a runner right now and the fumbles are as much on our coaching staff as they are him. It was a knock he had coming into the league and they've done nothing to fix it.

It is funny because I was saying he worries the hell out of me when he runs like he does. This was after the Giants game on another board, and someone was saying it is fine and he hasn't had a history.

Foster holds the ball a foot or more away from his body some times, that is awful protection. Thankfully we do have the coach that taught Tiki how to hold the ball, maybe Foster will too.

JPF
10-06-2007, 08:23 AM
Actually, we don't have the coach that taught Tiki how to hold the ball. It's Jerald Ingram who's still with the Giants that Tiki credits for helping him reduce his fumbles.

We have Jim Skipper who was the Rb coach with the Giants till 2000. Skipper has been here Foster's whole career and hasn't seemed to make much of a difference in that area.

ShutDwn
10-06-2007, 09:10 AM
Actually, we don't have the coach that taught Tiki how to hold the ball. It's Jerald Ingram who's still with the Giants that Tiki credits for helping him reduce his fumbles.

We have Jim Skipper who was the Rb coach with the Giants till 2000. Skipper has been here Foster's whole career and hasn't seemed to make much of a difference in that area.

Well someone lied to me then. Phuey

JPF
10-06-2007, 12:58 PM
Yea, someone lied to ya. Tiki's first year as the starter (2000) was Skipper's last year with NY. He rushed for over a 1000 yards but fumbled 9 times. And he continued to fumble badly for the next 3 years (26 times over those 3 years).

It wasn't until Ingram joined the Giants in 2004 that Tiki's fumbles decreased. He had 9 fumbles total the 3 years he was there with Ingram as his position coach.

ShutDwn
10-07-2007, 10:51 AM
Beason is starting at MLB, hopefully for good. Morgan is done, bringing him back only hinders development. However I wouldn't be surprised if the team moves him back if he isn't an instant sensation. They have absolutely no patience.

FirstAndGoal
10-07-2007, 03:58 PM
Beason (or Beaston, as I like to call him) looked very good in the game today. he led the team with 13 tackles. I was glad we could get a win, but it wasnt pretty. David Carr just isnt that good, smitty had a down game, the running game wasnt good, and the defense, while better than it has been, still has to get better in certain areas. but i'll take the win. hopefully we can beat arizona next week and go into the bye week 4-2.

ShutDwn
10-07-2007, 04:34 PM
Beason (or Beaston, as I like to call him) looked very good in the game today. he led the team with 13 tackles. I was glad we could get a win, but it wasnt pretty. David Carr just isnt that good, smitty had a down game, the running game wasnt good, and the defense, while better than it has been, still has to get better in certain areas. but i'll take the win. hopefully we can beat arizona next week and go into the bye week 4-2.

Smith has had down weeks because Carr just flat out sucks. He is too scared to get Smith the ball, he doesn't realize that there are always going to be guys around Steve and you have to stick it in there. Carr's play is also frustrating Smith and leading to drops.

Beason was listed at 15 tackles during the game, I won't be surprised when his total goes up after evaluation. Morgan is done, and Seward will never be as good as Beason. Fox better not move him. The thing is, he can still play better, and he won't have to face such hard running backs to cover.

Gamble continues to shut people down. I didn't see a catch on him, though there was probably a few. The point is, I didn't hear his name and that is great.

FirstAndGoal
10-07-2007, 09:28 PM
yeah, gamble has played well. so has richard marshall, he had the interception on the bad pass at the beginning of the game (which actually wasn't his best play because brees should have completed that pass) but he was also did well against the run and he is an absolute beast on special teams. basically every special teams play he is in on the tackle.

ShutDwn
10-08-2007, 02:09 PM
IMO Jakes injury just bought Fox another year. Which sucks because this organization doesn't seem to realize that every team has injuries.

Also, is it me or is looking the team screwed up AGAIN and is wasting another pick with Jarrett? I know Fox doesn't like playing rookies, but get the hell over it. COLBERT AND CARTER SUCK!!! Bring up whoever we kept on the practice squad, put Dwayne in, do we still have Horn?

Seriously, we need some ***** receivers.

fenikz
10-08-2007, 03:21 PM
Just wondering how long is Delhomme out for? Because I'm really hoping that the Cardinals get to play against Carr, you guys just seem like a completely different team with out Jake.

JPF
10-08-2007, 03:22 PM
Nope, Horn was cut to make room for Manuel I believe.

ShutDwn
10-08-2007, 04:00 PM
Just wondering how long is Delhomme out for? Because I'm really hoping that the Cardinals get to play against Carr, you guys just seem like a completely different team with out Jake.

Well yeah, Carr can't run an offense at all. There is a difference between making plays and running an offense, but he can't do either.

Delhomme is done for the season though.

dammit @ Horn being cut

fenikz
10-08-2007, 04:20 PM
ouch, too bad, you guys were my surprise pick to go to the superbowl

ShutDwn
10-08-2007, 04:22 PM
ouch, too bad, you guys were my surprise pick to go to the superbowl

hahahaha... Not looking to good for ya haha.

I didn't think it would be a great year, around 8-8, maybe wild card. Now it is going to be hard to win 7 games IMO.

JPF
10-08-2007, 07:22 PM
Honestly, I'll be surprised if we win 7 games. The D looked like they may be starting to get it together, but with Carr starting....

FirstAndGoal
10-08-2007, 07:49 PM
At least with Delhomme our passing game looked fine, but nothing else did. now everything looks bad. i'm really surprised at how poorly carr has played. i'm not ready to pull the plug on the season yet, but if carr and our defense dont get it together soon (which the defense looked like it maybe was getting there- or maybe the saints just suck) then we're in major trouble.

ShutDwn
10-08-2007, 09:11 PM
The offense as a whole is going to suffer. Carr isn't going to make defenses afraid of putting 8 or even 9 in the box. Smith usually would, but teams aren't going to worry as much with Carr throwing to him.

fenikz
10-08-2007, 09:41 PM
I expect the Cardinals to put 8 in the box with Holt and Hood doubling Smith all game and A Dub to roam around and kill people as usual

FirstAndGoal
10-09-2007, 07:09 PM
I expect the Cardinals to put 8 in the box with Holt and Hood doubling Smith all game and A Dub to roam around and kill people as usual

Thats a good strategy- I would just make one change. triple steve smith and dont put anyone on any of our other receivers. it really wont matter.

ShutDwn
10-09-2007, 08:08 PM
Anyone else really want to see Dwayne Jarret get a chance? I'm a bit tired of Fox not even letting the rookies see the field unless they are ready superstars.

JPF
10-10-2007, 01:07 AM
I really don't see how Jarrett could do worse than Carter and Colbert have for the majority of the season.

ShutDwn
10-10-2007, 06:25 AM
I really don't see how Jarrett could do worse than Carter and Colbert have for the majority of the season.

He also has better if not very good hands.

But of course, if you aren't having a dramatic impact on the offense within the 5 plays your given as a rookie you automatically fail.

The Panthers always fail at developing rookies, IMO it is because they practically refuse to play them and give them experience because they are rookies. I believe any rookie that has done well for us was pretty much a self made success. Prior failures make me think that the team coaching really doesn't have anything to do with them doing well.

JPF
10-10-2007, 03:37 PM
We signed a Qb that's older than our OC.

ShutDwn
10-10-2007, 04:11 PM
We signed a Qb that's older than our OC.

Fantastic.

Hopefully Moore will see time on Sunday after the Cardinals take out there starters ( :) )

I heard that Jaws had Moore rated as the best QB after Quinn, Russel, and Edwards. Pretty good if you ask me.

IMO I think a rookie might actually be better at "running" this offense than Carr is. But of course that tight throw probably took away all the confidence of the coaches. Doesn't matter that Carr threw an awful interception either, he wins by loyalty and years in the league.

Moore wasn't afraid to throw it though...

JPF
10-10-2007, 08:33 PM
I'd prefer to give Moore a chance. I've been less than impressed with what I've seen from Carr this season (dating back to the pre-season), and with Jake having Tommy John surgery I'm more worried about the future than I am winning games this year with Vinny (which I don't think is a very legitimate chance anyway).

This season sure has turned to crap.

FirstAndGoal
10-11-2007, 06:08 PM
i'd also like to see more of moore and not testaverde, but i would most like to see deangelo at qb. we did well with it last year in a somewhat similar situation, and it would be nice to see him get a good about of chances in this offense with delhomme and carr out.

d-dave
10-12-2007, 07:15 AM
While I wouldn't mind seeing Moore, it's going to take some extraordinary circumstances to see him out there Sunday. We're in a tight division where its anyone's to loose. The key is to win all the game you can, no matter what. Oh, or isn't that how life is in the NFL?

Anyways, we could see Moore if:
1. We're down by 4 scores in the 4th and the D is getting pummeled by Az.
2. We're up by 4 scores and Warner looks like the guy run out of NYG...
3. Viny is broken in half at some point during the game...

I hope those three aren't going to happen, but it could. I want us to Win this game and go into the Indy game 4-2 with a chance to really compete for the division in December. If it takes a 900 year old QB to do it, then I'll take it.

JPF
10-12-2007, 06:56 PM
At this point for us it should really as much about looking at players for the future as it is trying to win the division. We can't end this season without knowing what we have in some of our younger players, especially with the amount of key players we have that become free agents over the next two off-seasons.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us get our heads out of our butt and win it all, but if it means answering questions and addressing issues to give us a streak of winning seasons....then I'm willing to sacrifice this year. Especially since I don't expect much out of Vinny and/or Carr at Qb.

ShutDwn
10-12-2007, 11:55 PM
At this point for us it should really as much about looking at players for the future as it is trying to win the division. We can't end this season without knowing what we have in some of our younger players, especially with the amount of key players we have that become free agents over the next two off-seasons.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see us get our heads out of our butt and win it all, but if it means answering questions and addressing issues to give us a streak of winning seasons....then I'm willing to sacrifice this year. Especially since I don't expect much out of Vinny and/or Carr at Qb.

Wow, your in my head. I really thought this year would turn out in this way. Not Jake getting injured, but that is would be an ok year with young guys hopefully getting shots.

I am willing to see if we actually have a talented WR other than Smith, I really don't want to go into the draft unaware of what Jarrett or someone else can do.

I'd like to know if Moore is anything worth developing. I know Testeverde is old and isn't the answer, and David Carr is not going to be "reborn".

angelsdontkill
10-14-2007, 06:28 PM
I'm convinced Williams should be getting a majority of the touches. Foster is inconsistent and fumbles way too much.

Also, if Vinny keeps it up, I wouldn't mind him finishing the year instead of Carr.

ShutDwn
10-14-2007, 06:43 PM
I'm convinced Williams should be getting a majority of the touches. Foster is inconsistent and fumbles way too much.

Also, if Vinny keeps it up, I wouldn't mind him finishing the year instead of Carr.

Proclaiming him starter after a slow game for Foster is dumb. Foster didn't have any blocking though he should hang onto the ball.

Williams loses yards quite a bit though.

fenikz
10-14-2007, 06:45 PM
Good game, The Cardinals are screwed now unless Warner's injury is minor, Vinny looked pretty good, espcially for only playing a week or so with your team.

angelsdontkill
10-14-2007, 06:57 PM
It's not from one game. I've been saying this since LAST YEAR. He's simply put a better, and more consistent running back.

ShutDwn
10-14-2007, 07:12 PM
It's not from one game. I've been saying this since LAST YEAR. He's simply put a better, and more consistent running back.

If not for a few big runs his average is much lower. DeAngelo has not consistently gotten yards like he did today. He got stuffed a lot against the Saints and went backwards some too.

Either way, he and Foster need to be better on first down, because it doesn't matter who wants more carries if they are picking up a yard or losing some. We have to stay ahead of the chains if we want to be able to feed either of them the ball 20 times a game.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-14-2007, 07:32 PM
Foster gets a lot of 0s and DeAngelo gets a lot of -2s. They both aren't good enough right now, but I'd list DeAngelo the #1 because he's not as fumble prone and there's actually a chance he might not suck in the future. For now, they need to be mixed up like they are now, except I'd give DeAngelo the amount of carries Foster is getting (let DeShaun start the first series to keep him happy, I could care less about that) with Foster getting more carries if he's hot or we're going up against a team with terrible run DTs like the Rams, Giants, etc

As for the game, wow. Hard to believe we're 4-2. Even though we won 25-10 it was still close until the 4th quarter, but damn, I'll take it. Great job by Vinny to come in after 3 days and do just enough. Nice to see Pep is more or less back too. I'm still skeptical of this team but we're not that much worse than the Bucs and the rest of the division blows. Man, if the Titans could have beaten Tampa today I'd feel a lot better about Indy coming off the bye...

ShutDwn
10-14-2007, 08:55 PM
We should work more of the direct snap stuff in the offense. It is being used so much in College and it is something that will work in the NFL too.

Running the ball is playing a man down because the QB isn't involved at all. If we could start working that in with Smith and Williams we might have something. Hell, have an option with Smith and Williams once in a while. (Way to risky for John Fox)

JPF
10-14-2007, 11:53 PM
How do we keep winning?

ShutDwn
10-15-2007, 02:45 PM
How do we keep winning?

I don't know, and it makes me a bit mad because these are hollow victories IMO. Ones that shouldn't help Fox keep his job but probably will. These wins only set us up for more failure. They make the team lazy and think that they don't have to play great every game.

fenikz
10-15-2007, 02:51 PM
How do we keep winning?

Short Anwser:
Tim Rattay

Long Answer:
Tim Rattay sucks huge donkey dick

ShutDwn
10-15-2007, 04:04 PM
Short Anwser:
Tim Rattay

Long Answer:
Tim Rattay sucks huge donkey dick

very true. We have also come across some very LUCKY interceptions. The last one by Deke was rediculous.

fenikz
10-15-2007, 06:05 PM
Ya Fitz, Pope & Urban all basically just handed you the ball

ShutDwn
10-15-2007, 08:04 PM
My beef with Deangelo is I want to see more power behind his runs. Sure he had some stiff arms but that isn't what I consider power.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-16-2007, 04:35 PM
That's not his game though. He's what DeShaun should have been. The shifty guy who can get more than 5 yards when he dances his way past the line of scrimmage. The lack of an effective bruiser on this team isn't his fault, he's never been that kind of back and will never even be able to grow into it like Foster has tried to

ShutDwn
10-16-2007, 05:03 PM
That's not his game though. He's what DeShaun should have been. The shifty guy who can get more than 5 yards when he dances his way past the line of scrimmage. The lack of an effective bruiser on this team isn't his fault, he's never been that kind of back and will never even be able to grow into it like Foster has tried to

Doesn't mean he can't break a tackle in the hole or dragging a guy an extra yard. If he can't, I don't see him as a superstar in the league. If he could run with at least the same power Brian Westbrook does I would be happy, he outweighs Brian by about 13 pounds too.

ShutDwn
10-28-2007, 10:32 AM
Freeney has his first double sack day in a while today. If I am right that he hasn't had one in a while.

ShutDwn
10-28-2007, 01:58 PM
Well the 3rd quarter has started, Vinny is out, Carr is in. The team has already called it in. Down by ten they are running draws.

Carr is awful, he will only throw check downs and get sacked.

SchizophrenicBatman
10-28-2007, 04:16 PM
Well I'm not that upset about today. We owned the Colts in the first half, the 10-7 score was because they got a lot of breaks to go their way (and because Ryne Robinson is a moron) but we outplayed them. Them being ahead didn't matter in the long run because we got curbstomped in the 2nd half, so yea. Also we were due for some crappy luck like that first half after the Falcons + Saints games so hopefully karma is back to normal for us and it used a game we werent going to win anyway to screw us

But still, ugh, it's disappointing. That first drive got my hopes up. And the defense was up to the task for a while too. The Special Teams still BLOWS ASS. Crossman has to be the worst coach to ever be employed in the NFL. I almost wish the whole game had been like the 2nd half, because that's what I was expecting, and I could have just turned the game off in the middle of the 2nd quarter and wrote the week off as a 2nd bye week (I already had us pencilled in as 4-3 two weeks ago).

Anyway, I'll try to draw out the positives:

- I really liked the playcalling on the first drive. I hope Davidson is still learning on the job, because he showed some flashes today and that's promising for the future. The first drive was still conservative in how it was set up, but it was good

- Wharton didn't get owned by Freeney. Pass protection all around was decent today. Not great, but a solid effort against the Colts D.

- Harris is a player. After today I'm convinced. The toss on the fumble return was stupid as hell, but I'm talking in general. I wasn't sure how good he was before just because he got a few FFs (some of it has to do with how he attacks the ball on tackles, but 4 in 6 games also has to do with getting a little lucky) but he was solid out there vs a good offense and can handle pass coverage. I hope we keep him for a long time. He'll never be an elite player, but he can be a solid staple back there like Minter was for a long time

- Kemoeatu did his job for most of the game. He's still a waste because he's a liability as a 2 down player (see that play the Colts quick snapped as he was running off the field) who's not even that great for the 2 downs he plays, but oh well.

- I hope we keep Moorehead. He's been good this year as a back up and that's all we need out of him. I'm not sure if we'll be able to afford to bring Lewis back, so we gotta get him for another year or two.

- Peppers wasn't invisible. Not a good game for him stats wise, but he was able to get some pressure. Manning is just too good at getting rid of the ball...even old man Rucker couldnt get to him against a back up LT. Manning's stats were UGLY until the 3rd quarter, so they were getting the job done...for half the game.

- Jon Beason is a great player. The only thing he doesnt excel at is taking blockers on straight ahead, but he is a beast everywhere else. I'm very excited to have him at MLB for the next 10 years.

- Carr wasn't dysfunctional at QB for once. He wasn't good by any stretch of the imagination, but he wasn't awful. He was able to escape pressure without running 20 yards backward and getting sacked, etc. Only problem is you can tell the offense doesnt believe in him at all. The team feeds off Vinny like they fed off Delhomme.

The Bad:

- Lucas' 2005 was a fluke. He was a solid, but unspectacular CB in Seattle. He sucked last year, but had the injury excuse. Today, he just got abused by Reggie Wayne. I think it's time to give up hope that he can be 2005 good and just face facts. He's decent enough for a #1 CB, but he's not elite or even very good.

- Inconsistent running game. Foster broke a couple 10+ yard runs, but got stuffed a lot. DeAngelo didnt get many touches, but didnt do much with what he got. FWIW, I liked that breakdown of touches. The Colts D is fast, but small. If we were going to run on them, it'd be with Foster. But we didnt

- Our team has too many players that are good enough to play, but not good enough to make a difference. This is why we're a .500 team. We have no HUGE holes (except maybe Deke Cooper and QB) but too many guys like Davis, Diggs, Kemo, Rucker at his age, Hartwig, Gross, DeAngelo, DeShaun etc. Now that I mentioned him though, Diggs has been pretty good the last two games. Diggs/Beason/Davis > Beason/Morgan/Davis RIGHT NOW, please dont put Morgan back in the middle after he's rested up on his barcalounger.

- We still suck at disguising blitzes. I knew we were screwed on that obvious blitz where Manning just lobbed the ball up to Wayne

- NFL games are 60 minutes long, not 25

- This is our last chance at the playoffs. The NFC South is wide open, and a WC spot probably will be too. Don't bank on that happening next year. If the Falcons get a QB who doesn't suck, they could pull what the Saints did last year. This is our chance. And as a baseball fan, I know what TJ surgery does to a player. You're gone for a while, and even when you come back, it takes you a year to get back to where you were before the surgery. In other words, Delhomme won't be the guy we saw with the 8 TD:1 INT ratio until at least 2009. Maybe we get the guy from 2006 next year if he comes back, but we don't want that guy. After I took a look at the QBs in the 09 class, we MUST take a guy this year. Ryan/Woodson/Brohm, it doesnt matter which, we have to get one. The guys that will be available in round 1 in 2009 might be worse than the guys available in round 2 this year.

On that last point, I dont really care if we fire Fox after this year. I honestly dont believe he deserves it (though he isn't convincing me NOT to fire him either), but it doesn't matter because I see us having no shot in 2008. It's basically a wasted year in my mind no matter what, so if we suffer through it with a new coach and a rookie QB, oh well. As long as it isn't Bill Cowher

ShutDwn
11-11-2007, 03:15 PM
This game should have lost Fox his job. But:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7433688?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=4973

We would owe him 20 million. Way to go Hurney! Way to freaking go...

freaking a

SchizophrenicBatman
11-11-2007, 03:57 PM
I've been saying it for a while now. Hurney is more of a bane on this team than Fox is. Just firing John Fox won't do a damn thing. We'll see the same garbage with the next coach if they don't have a GM who can make player evaluations (and for that matter, Hurney overpays for EVERYONE. What the hell is he good at?). They need to clean house. Get rid of everybody from Hurney to the janitors. And I'd rather bring in a young guy like Garret who might not be ready than a retread like Schottenheimer or Cowher but either way if they do something they need to replace the entire front office and staff.

The thing that really pushes me over on Fox is how god damn boring watching his games are. It's great if you're winning but that crap turns a fanbase on you quick when you start dropping games. I mean, who the **** am I supposed to root for on this team? They take no risks, they wait forever to play promising young talent (key on promising, sitting Dwayne Jarrett's lazy ass on the bench for 10 weeks is a positive in my book) and still lose anyway.

We lose that game with Matt Moore, at least it's entertaining. We lose it with Vinny and we have what to take from it? That Dwayne Jarrett can't run anything but fade routes and stop passes after nearly a year in the NFL? Honestly the only real positives I can think of are Beason and Lucas, but I gave up on Lucas ever being 2005 good again last week and we already knew Beason was good so that seems kind of hollow

ShutDwn
11-11-2007, 04:09 PM
I've been saying it for a while now. Hurney is more of a bane on this team than Fox is. Just firing John Fox won't do a damn thing. We'll see the same garbage with the next coach if they don't have a GM who can make player evaluations (and for that matter, Hurney overpays for EVERYONE. What the hell is he good at?). They need to clean house. Get rid of everybody from Hurney to the janitors. And I'd rather bring in a young guy like Garret who might not be ready than a retread like Schottenheimer or Cowher but either way if they do something they need to replace the entire front office and staff.

The thing that really pushes me over on Fox is how god damn boring watching his games are. It's great if you're winning but that crap turns a fanbase on you quick when you start dropping games. I mean, who the **** am I supposed to root for on this team? They take no risks, they wait forever to play promising young talent (key on promising, sitting Dwayne Jarrett's lazy ass on the bench for 10 weeks is a positive in my book) and still lose anyway.

We lose that game with Matt Moore, at least it's entertaining. We lose it with Vinny and we have what to take from it? That Dwayne Jarrett can't run anything but fade routes and stop passes after nearly a year in the NFL? Honestly the only real positives I can think of are Beason and Lucas, but I gave up on Lucas ever being 2005 good again last week and we already knew Beason was good so that seems kind of hollow

You can't forget about Harris, the man is the reason we were even in the game. Gamble has been playing well also. Basically, our secondary, Diggs (as of late) and Beason have been the only ones worth anything.


It really speaks to how much Fox lacks a pair, when he starts an injured 44 year old over a kid who has shown he has the pair to throw the ball 15 yards down field. Sure he will get picked, but so does Carr and he only throws 3 yard passes.


It really pissed me off though, that they said that Smith talked to Robinson and worked with him. What happens? Robinson actually makes some plays and looks good. That just tells me that the coaching on this team is bottom of the ******* barrel.

It also angered me when they said Fox doesn't know what is wrong with Peppers. You better figure out what the **** is wrong with him if you guys are going to pay him the amount you do.

This entire team needs an overhaul, I don't like Hurney either. It is just that Fox is the HC and the team's face.

I don't know if I will be wasting my time if they don't make changes. I could be doing something useful.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-11-2007, 04:41 PM
Gamble, Diggs and Harris have been playing well lately but I dont see them as key cogs. If a new coach comes in here next year I could easily see any of them gone after the 08-09 season if they don't fit the system. Granted, I guess Lucas fits in that bill too.

Harris didn't really do his job on the last play against Crumpler but he did have a good game, another FF. Has his flaws but makes plays. Expendable, but a bright spot for the year.

I guess that's the thing though. Who really isn't expendable on this team?

Beason and Smith are the only two I'd be pissed if we lost. I love Marshall so I'm trying not to be biased by putting him in that untouchable tier but he's next in line. After that, who? Obviously Peppers has to be considered but he's been a waste the entire year. I think then it actually drops down to Gamble/Lucas, Harris and Davis, and that's pretty sad.

ShutDwn
11-11-2007, 04:48 PM
Gamble, Diggs and Harris have been playing well lately but I dont see them as key cogs. If a new coach comes in here next year I could easily see any of them gone after the 08-09 season if they don't fit the system. Granted, I guess Lucas fits in that bill too.

Harris didn't really do his job on the last play against Crumpler but he did have a good game, another FF. Has his flaws but makes plays. Expendable, but a bright spot for the year.

I guess that's the thing though. Who really isn't expendable on this team?

Beason and Smith are the only two I'd be pissed if we lost. I love Marshall so I'm trying not to be biased by putting him in that untouchable tier but he's next in line. After that, who? Obviously Peppers has to be considered but he's been a waste the entire year. I think then it actually drops down to Gamble/Lucas, Harris and Davis, and that's pretty sad.

Gamble and Lucas have been a lot better than Marshall. He has been good, but not spectacular, and has been bailed out a few times. He has made some great tackles on special teams though.

I like Lucas' demeanor though, I have always liked him, but it is hard for me to ignore Gamble's play.

Beason and Smith are definitely the guys to build the team around. Harris isn't a superstar, but he is one of those support guys that you need to win championships. Not everyone can be a star.

I don't know how much I care about Peppers coming back. I'd rather find someone with a better motor and plays with more emotion and urgency. They would also be cheaper. I'm not too keen on paying a guy big bucks to disappear for a half year, or in this case, the entire year.

SchizophrenicBatman
11-11-2007, 08:49 PM
Lucas has had a couple of bad games this year. Reggie Wayne completely smoked him last week for instance. He has a few solid days too though and was great today. I agree on that I've always liked him, but it's time to see past that and be impartial. The reason I have him and Gamble so low is because I was thinking you can live without one but not both while Marshall still has the unknown factor since he hasnt really been unleashed vs top WRs and he's pretty much the sole reason we aren't the absolute worst special teams in the history of the NFL

But yea, I think Marshall has become a little overrated from last year. He was damn good then but I'm pretty sure he was guarding #2s or 3s most of the time. Gamble stayed healthy for all but a couple games, he was just extremely bad while Lucas was out

ShutDwn
11-12-2007, 02:01 PM
Yeah, but they are all playing really well now. Lucas is my favorite out of the three, though I like them all.

After the last game, Smith apparently shed tears. Steve is extremely frustrated. He is trying his best, and isn't getting results. It is a tribute to his maturity now that he is not being destructive. DeAngelo Hall said it, Smith is the best receiver in the league because he always goes 100%. I don't know how you can disregard that statement. The two are not friends at all now. Smith's emotions are why I would take him over anyone right now, he really loves the game and he loves to win. The odds are stacked against him and he is still trying to make plays. Randy Moss would be injured by now, he would be taking himself out of games. Owens would be doing sit ups in this driveway, throwing his QB under the bus. Smith has David Carr, and he has not even complained about it publicly.

Smith is a very rare competitor.

GB12
11-13-2007, 10:28 PM
What's the word on Sunday's starter?

ShutDwn
12-04-2007, 03:59 PM
Beason had a good game vs san fran.

Nothing like beating a team like the 49ers to give a team false hope/confidence. I'm sure we will think everything is corrected now and we will just win all the time now.

The Unseen
12-09-2007, 07:34 PM
Good game, brothas-from-another-figurative-franchise-expansion-motha. Get a QB and you should go places. An some consistency on defense, too.

ShutDwn
12-10-2007, 06:24 PM
Beason had a good game vs san fran.

Nothing like beating a team like the 49ers to give a team false hope/confidence. I'm sure we will think everything is corrected now and we will just win all the time now.

HAHHAHAHAHAHAH

ny10804
12-16-2007, 07:09 PM
Think you guys could beat the Cowboys for us (Packers)?

GB12
12-16-2007, 07:10 PM
Think you guys could beat the Cowboys for us (Packers)?
There aren't any Pather fans on the site to answer you.

ny10804
12-16-2007, 07:34 PM
There aren't any Pather fans on the site to answer you.

Well, there's ShutDown/ShtDwn/ShutDwn or whatever it is and... and...

SchizophrenicBatman
12-16-2007, 08:32 PM
i highly doubt we beat the cowboys

ShutDwn
12-16-2007, 09:19 PM
If by beat them you mean lose by 45 points than yes, yes we can.

Todays game is great, we beat a decent team. Too bad the conditions played a bigger role than we probably did.

joercky
12-24-2007, 01:15 AM
Moore looked decent. Fox should be canned for starting Foster over Williams.

ShutDwn
12-24-2007, 11:24 AM
Moore looked decent. Fox should be canned for starting Foster over Williams.

The problem with that is, what did Williams do other than one run? He got the same as Foster.

Fosters average: 2.25
Deangelo's without the big run: 2.3

Yes, his big run is to his credit, but other than that he isn't clearly the better option. He did better than he did in this game against the Cardinals, but he isn't consistent in his big runs, or even his decent ones. So many times do I see him get stuffed for a loss or nothing. Foster gets stuffed too, but I see more 4 yard gains then Williams gets.

Foster has more chance at being consistent, though you can't tell because of our offensive line.

DeAngelo isn't consistent but can bust one play once in a while.

Also, DeAngelo is not up to speed in pass protection or receiving. If you want to blame someone, blame Deangelo.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-24-2007, 03:09 PM
shutdwn youre just trying to overjustify this

DeAngelo gets these big runs because he has big play ability. Remember the reason everyone (especially footballoutsiders) used to hate on DeShaun is because he was like DeAngelo early in his career. He'd get stuffed at the line 4 plays out of 5, then break off a 30 yard run to barely save his ypc.

Now DeShaun is the same player, without that big play ability. It's all gone. 1 20+ yard run all year. He runs with a little more power now, but not much. This is the guy that takes 3 carries on the 1 yard line to score a touchdown, right (and sometimes cant even do that)? He NEVER gets a 3rd and 1. Throw on top of that all of the fumbles. Why in the hell does anyone defend him? He sucks, worst RB in the league who gets over 100 carries a year by far

If you dont think DeAngelo is what we need at RB, that's fine. He may not be, boom/bust is not a great gameplan because you bust more than you boom. But he is BY FAR a better option than Foster who is basically bust/bust/fumble.

Go get a guy who gets you 3-4 yards a run when there's nothing there. Don't stick with Foster, who actually averages 3.5 YPC (worst in the league besides Warrick Dunn).

Maybe the OLine is the problem, which I think is your bigger point. But it's not all the line. It's a good part Foster. I'd rather have Nick Goings as our #2 RB next season. And I think if you fix the Oline DeAngelo can get you positive yardage more often. Foster is a lost cause, though.

ShutDwn
12-24-2007, 03:26 PM
shutdwn youre just trying to overjustify this

DeAngelo gets these big runs because he has big play ability. Remember the reason everyone (especially footballoutsiders) used to hate on DeShaun is because he was like DeAngelo early in his career. He'd get stuffed at the line 4 plays out of 5, then break off a 30 yard run to barely save his ypc.

Now DeShaun is the same player, without that big play ability. It's all gone. 1 20+ yard run all year. He runs with a little more power now, but not much. This is the guy that takes 3 carries on the 1 yard line to score a touchdown, right (and sometimes cant even do that)? He NEVER gets a 3rd and 1. Throw on top of that all of the fumbles. Why in the hell does anyone defend him? He sucks, worst RB in the league who gets over 100 carries a year by far

If you dont think DeAngelo is what we need at RB, that's fine. He may not be, boom/bust is not a great gameplan because you bust more than you boom. But he is BY FAR a better option than Foster who is basically bust/bust/fumble.

Go get a guy who gets you 3-4 yards a run when there's nothing there. Don't stick with Foster, who actually averages 3.5 YPC (worst in the league besides Warrick Dunn).

Maybe the OLine is the problem, which I think is your bigger point. But it's not all the line. It's a good part Foster. I'd rather have Nick Goings as our #2 RB next season. And I think if you fix the Oline DeAngelo can get you positive yardage more often. Foster is a lost cause, though.

The offensive line gets no push, that really isn't debatable.

Williams is a big play threat, but the problem is with him is that its that or nothing. A few games ago they were talking about how he is just now realizing that coaches want 4 yards.

Foster has been pretty good against some defenses, like the Colts for instance. His ypc doesn't show it, but he did well in that game. A lot better than DeAngelo.

Foster hasn't been spectacular, his fumbles have been bad. Funny because I pointed his ball safety in the first preseason game on another forum and people just said he has never had a problem.

Williams has had a few moments. While those were great, they should not excuse his inconsistency. He has a 4.8 average this year, but anyone who has watched Williams knows that his average is closer to two if that.

I wish Deangelo would be the guy, but honestly, he has been disappointing in his first two years. He has had some memorable plays like the one against Dallas or Philly last year. But he hasn't done much outside of that.


Foster has done a lot to not deserve a starting spot, and DeAngelo hasn't done enough to really earn it. Unless people just want the chance of at least one big play per game and then the rest of the carries are little to no gain.

If you want DeAngelo to be the guy, we need a very good offensive line.

joercky
12-24-2007, 04:36 PM
The problem with that is, what did Williams do other than one run? He got the same as Foster.

Fosters average: 2.25
Deangelo's without the big run: 2.3

Yes, his big run is to his credit, but other than that he isn't clearly the better option. He did better than he did in this game against the Cardinals, but he isn't consistent in his big runs, or even his decent ones. So many times do I see him get stuffed for a loss or nothing. Foster gets stuffed too, but I see more 4 yard gains then Williams gets.

Foster has more chance at being consistent, though you can't tell because of our offensive line.

DeAngelo isn't consistent but can bust one play once in a while.

Also, DeAngelo is not up to speed in pass protection or receiving. If you want to blame someone, blame Deangelo.
Agreed DeAngelo in that sense is similar to Willie Parker. The Panthers suffer from not being able to convert third downs and turnovers the same things we have been saying for years. Foster has like 7-8 fumbles while DeAngelo has 1. If Foster is coughing up the ball he shouldn't be playing. You know what you get w/ Foster but not Williams. He is a bonus baby lets see if he can play. Ideally though Williams will be paired up with somebody like Mike "The Burner" Turner in a 2 back system.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-24-2007, 05:51 PM
i dont think you guys understand

deangleo may be a net zero because his negative yardage runs offset his big plays but foster SUCKS

it's like Colbert vs Carter. Sure, Carter isn't that great but Colbert shouldnt be on an NFL roster

you remember foster getting 4 yards more "consistently" because that's his big plays. And you're right, he does have big games...against teams with terrible run defenses like the Rams, Giants and Falcons. Everyone else, he is completely worthless.

look here, it tries to measure overall effect without giving extra weight to 80 yard runs:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.php

Foster is the second to last ranked RB with more than 75 carries. Williams isn't great, but he's a net positive.

The thing you're making a big deal out of is called success rate. And you're right, Foster is more consistent at getting positive yards. But he's still not good. He's ranked 36 with a 43% rate while Williams is 47 with a 39% rate (and those numbers will probably change after this week...notice how Foster played a crappy game when he only got 4 carries too? hmmm).

The point is, neither is any good at what you want. And Williams is better at big plays. The way to go is to ditch Foster and get another RB to go with Williams

Also I dont understand the DeAngelo is bad at pass pro criticism. He's not Clinton Portis but I haven't noticed him as a liability out there. Foster is better in that area right now, I agree, which is why he should be the 3rd down back and Williams the 1st/2nd until we ditch him

joercky
12-25-2007, 09:52 PM
Like I said D-Will and da Burner Turner would make a killer combo, Williams is a home run threat while Turner can just run people over.

ShutDwn
12-26-2007, 10:33 PM
i dont think you guys understand

deangleo may be a net zero because his negative yardage runs offset his big plays but foster SUCKS

it's like Colbert vs Carter. Sure, Carter isn't that great but Colbert shouldnt be on an NFL roster

you remember foster getting 4 yards more "consistently" because that's his big plays. And you're right, he does have big games...against teams with terrible run defenses like the Rams, Giants and Falcons. Everyone else, he is completely worthless.

look here, it tries to measure overall effect without giving extra weight to 80 yard runs:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.php

Foster is the second to last ranked RB with more than 75 carries. Williams isn't great, but he's a net positive.

The thing you're making a big deal out of is called success rate. And you're right, Foster is more consistent at getting positive yards. But he's still not good. He's ranked 36 with a 43% rate while Williams is 47 with a 39% rate (and those numbers will probably change after this week...notice how Foster played a crappy game when he only got 4 carries too? hmmm).

The point is, neither is any good at what you want. And Williams is better at big plays. The way to go is to ditch Foster and get another RB to go with Williams

Also I dont understand the DeAngelo is bad at pass pro criticism. He's not Clinton Portis but I haven't noticed him as a liability out there. Foster is better in that area right now, I agree, which is why he should be the 3rd down back and Williams the 1st/2nd until we ditch him

Against the 49ers, the play-by-play announcer asked why Williams isn't getting more carries and playing more. I forget who the color commentator was, but he said, Williams is not all the way there in pass protection or running more consistently.

Foster is not trash, he is a decent starter. His offensive line isn't much to brag about they aren't road graders, and they are in a new scheme. Add in the fact that nobody is scared of the passing game and you have a recipe for a very low average. However, once in a while a defense will over pursue and DeAngelo has the ability to cut it back. Foster has had some good games against good defenses as well, such as Green Bay and Jacksonville. He also played well against the colts for the a while before we just gave in.

Both players have much better seasons if Jake stays healthy. Deangelo is the better playmaker, and Foster is decent at getting an ok or moderate gain when he has blocking.

I think at this point we are both are just going to agree to disagree though..

On another subject, I really like Matt Moore. I actually like him better than any other prospect out right now. Best of all, Steve likes him.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-27-2007, 10:57 PM
pbp announcers constantly spew nonsense and I think, at best, that commentator was fed the "not up to speed" line by the Panthers coaching staff, which is a questionable source at best. i do agree he's not great in the pass pro area but that's not a reason to keep him off the field (you can just roll him out to open up an option in the flat) and i don't agree that he's hurts you by being out there on passing downs (it's not like other teams go out of their way to attack him when they see him out there...like they do to deshaun's arms when he's running with the ball)

foster is trash, i cant see how you can argue otherwise. he's never been an impact player and this is the first year he has a shot at 1000 yards, and it's arguably been his worst yet. Is he worthwhile to keep around as a back up? Sure, but not at the 5 million pricetag we gave him

conversely, ive liked moore since we picked him up. I remember Jaws liked him coming out and a lot of Cowboy fans like what they saw of him in preseason. He has that "IT" factor you look for in QBs and I dont see any problems physically that limit him. Seems he fell through the cracks in the draft because he only played 2 years at Oregon State. Good to know we have a back up we can count on for once, since I still don't think Jake will be ready for Week 1 next year

BlindSite
12-28-2007, 02:21 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if his pass blocking wasn't great, but if that's the case then the staff only have themselves to blame. We used to use the tight end more than anyone else to block but they got rid of everyone and had to bring in Fauria.

ShutDwn
12-28-2007, 01:25 PM
I hope Jake can come back for next year, that would be the best scenario. I like Moore, but Jake is still our best option if he is available. Moore has plenty of time ahead of him if he keeps his play up.

jdb1972
12-28-2007, 06:54 PM
3.5 YPC is a trash number. Moreover, Foster's gotten worse as the season has worn on. Stick a fork in him.

I expect the team will pick up a veteran on a one year contract to back up Delhomme and spot start if necessary.

ShutDwn
12-29-2007, 11:24 AM
3.5 YPC is a trash number. Moreover, Foster's gotten worse as the season has worn on. Stick a fork in him.

I expect the team will pick up a veteran on a one year contract to back up Delhomme and spot start if necessary.

YPC is a trash statistic because Williams isn't close to averaging four yards a carry and everyone knows it.

I guess you can use it if you want to claim it points out big play ability. But plays over 20+ do that much better. The yards per carry statistic is stupid and rarely accurate the median would be much better. Foster's may be almost there, but DeAngelo's isn't.

jdb1972
12-29-2007, 11:46 AM
Er... YPC is an average by definition.

Yes, in Williams' case, it is padded by a few long runs. However, that was also the case with Foster prior to his injury a couple of years ago. Now, Foster just lacks the big runs. Lots of 2 yard or less runs with a few big plays is better than lots of 2 yard runs without the big plays.

I think Williams makes a fine scat/3rd down back, just as Foster did back before he was hurt. Neither is the ultimate solution at RB for the Panthers, though.

Incidentally, footballoutsiders.com came up with a stat a few years back that weighted the long runs less. IIRC, they also did weighting by down and distance. Foster was rated one of the worst backs in the NFL by that stat - and that was before he began his decline of the past couple of seasons.

ShutDwn
12-29-2007, 11:57 AM
Er... YPC is an average by definition.

Yes, in Williams' case, it is padded by a few long runs. However, that was also the case with Foster prior to his injury a couple of years ago. Now, Foster just lacks the big runs. Lots of 2 yard or less runs with a few big plays is better than lots of 2 yard runs without the big plays.

I think Williams makes a fine scat/3rd down back, just as Foster did back before he was hurt. Neither is the ultimate solution at RB for the Panthers, though.

Incidentally, footballoutsiders.com came up with a stat a few years back that weighted the long runs less. IIRC, they also did weighting by down and distance. Foster was rated one of the worst backs in the NFL by that stat - and that was before he began his decline of the past couple of seasons.

I'm not stupid, I know that YPC is the average. But I'm saying that it is an awful statistic when you are trying to describe a player. DeAngelo supposedly had a YPC of six yards a carry against Dallas. SIX! Now, I don't know if you watched the game, but I didn't see those carries. Take away that 39 yard run and your looking at a 2.3 YPC. That is why I don't trust that statistic, one run throws everything off, the median is much better than the mode.

Foster isn't that bad, he is playing with an offensive line that is just frustrating, and David Carr, a QB that defenses want to throw the ball. He isn't obviously good enough to be like Frank Gore and run over people regardless of QB play. Though he did have some big guys up front.

jdb1972
12-29-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm not disagreeing with you about Williams, as I noted above. The difference is that Williams is Foster with big plays (or Foster from a couple of years ago).

Blaming it on the line is irrelevant; they both play behind the same line. Blaming it on Carr is likeise; he's played one game since week 9, and they both have the same issue re: QB.

In any case, Foster will be gone next year, and Williams isn't an every down back. We'll have to look elsewhere for a back to use on 1st and 2nd down.

ShutDwn
12-30-2007, 12:58 PM
Moore looks pretty good today so far, one pick though.

And man, Rosario is looking good in the last few weeks. Some really nice catches in the last few games and he looks like he can run pretty well. A much better mid range threat than King who is more of a short 5-7 yards guy.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-30-2007, 03:36 PM
I'm not stupid, I know that YPC is the average. But I'm saying that it is an awful statistic when you are trying to describe a player. DeAngelo supposedly had a YPC of six yards a carry against Dallas. SIX! Now, I don't know if you watched the game, but I didn't see those carries. Take away that 39 yard run and your looking at a 2.3 YPC. That is why I don't trust that statistic, one run throws everything off, the median is much better than the mode.

Foster isn't that bad, he is playing with an offensive line that is just frustrating, and David Carr, a QB that defenses want to throw the ball. He isn't obviously good enough to be like Frank Gore and run over people regardless of QB play. Though he did have some big guys up front.

the point isnt that deangelo is good (I agree that his YPC makes him look much better than he really is), it's that foster sucks no matter which way you cut it. like jdb said, Foster is still one of the worst RBs in the NFL by metrics that value consistently picking up 4 yards on 1st down, 1 yard on 3rd and 1, etc more than getting one big run every other game. I dont see how thats surprising because DeShaun has never been a guy who gets you positive yards every run, he's the same type of runner as DeAngelo...he's just worse at it

anyway I couldnt watch the game today because I'm out of town and was travelling for part of it but the results look encouraging again. Moore with another decent game. I'm not too upset with the draft position dropping with the win because the talent from 5-15 is usually not a big dropoff. Once you get past the ELITE prospects the ridiculous contracts for unproven players offset the supposed lesser talent until you get really far down in the 1st round IMO

ShutDwn
12-30-2007, 05:22 PM
There is no franchise caliber player in this draft to me, McFadden maybe. I like Moore and I see him being better than any of the other guys, he won't have the price tag or the attitude that big name guys tend to have.

Rosario has been a "pleasant surprise" for Fox, that is what the commentators said anyway. He has made an athletic catch in the last three games and he can move really well for a guy his size. He seems to have a connection with Moore, probably from their third team reps.

Robinson fumbled, but he had a huge return. He has done enough lately to make be believe he was worth the pick now, especially with a 40 yard return last week and than a 60 this week. He was indecisive when he started, but has gotten a lot better. Every rookie return man is going to get compared to Hester, and Hester is phenomenal, but like any return man, he is not a big threat without good blocking. If we get Robinson better blocking he will play even better.

Kalil played pretty well for a change. The Bucs have a good interior and he did well except for a snap.


Our top needs have got to be these:

PASS RUSH - Our secondary is amazing for doing as well as they did sometimes with the lack of pressure. Peppers needs to get his ass in gear and learn some pass rush moves and be a lot more consistent.

Second option at receiver - We need someone to come in somehow. I don't have enough faith in anyone on the roster to just let it go. Carter is the only one worth putting any stock in. Colbert is gone, Jarrett doesn't deserve it, and Robinson hasn't played enough.

It is amazing to say that Safety isn't our biggest flaw. Cooper did a serviceable job, and Harris was a play maker. However, we could really use a kid who has the talent to play center field.

Left Tackle may be our best position to draft, maybe a defensive end.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-31-2007, 12:56 AM
here's my preliminary end of season rundown. im going to assume the coaching staff stays mostly intact:

QB - For once, I feel ok here depth wise. The one thing that concerns me is that I'm not so sure Delhomme will be 100% (or even 70%) Week 1 next season. For this reason I think we need to bring in a journeyman type vet who fits the system to compete with Basanez. I like Baz's intangibles, but he doesnt really strike me as a guy with the physical skills to last as a starting QB. Moore DOES have both traits which is why I'm fine with him all but pencilled in for a spot. So Delhomme/Moore/Baz/Chris Redman-type.

RB - We've gone through this already so I'll keep it short. I'm fine with the two back system. I'm not fine with the two backs that compose it. Their run styles are too similar and Foster's attempt to transition into a Stephen Davis-type has been a failure. Keep DeAngelo as the big play threat and look to fill the other spot with a guy who's really good at falling forward for 3 yards. I dont care who gets more carries between the two of them.

FB - I'm fine with Hoover for another year but it'd be nice to look for a replacement. I think Davidson would prefer to feature the FB less and 2 TE, H-backs, etc more with his offense, so it's also fine not to do anything here.

TE - King is a good option for short passes. Rosario seems to have potential in the intermediate game and the rapport with Moore doesnt hurt. I don't think either is Antonio Gates, but by this time next year we should be good enough at this position that mock drafts will finally stop giving us TEs in the first two rounds. Ironically, we're a little weak in the blocking department here. Well, Fauria is adequate there, but he's old. One thing I'll add on Rosario - I didn't like the pick initially but early in ST you could tell he was a guy we took to fit the system. This is what makes the Patriots great, finding guys that fill the holes perfectly for them. I am pro-BPA because I dont think our organization is smart enough to pick for our system, but if they do it more in the future, I'm all for it.

WR - Back to Steve and the scrubs again. Colbert is gone and I wouldnt care too much if Carter goes too. I do think Carter is worth keeping...but only as a #3/4. Too early to call Jarrett a bust, but early returns are not looking good. FWIW, I remember thinking from Ryne's draft videos and preseason action that he'd be a better slot WR than returner. He showed some potential in both areas late in the year after being dangerously close to the waiver wire early. I take those four and add either a mid round WR or a vet (slim pickings though...Andre Davis? Justin Gage? I'm not buying the Bryant Johnson hype)

OL - Ugh. Gross getting re-signed is almost a certainty so I'm just going to assume it happens. Beyond that, the rest of the line is up in the air IMO. Wahle is over the hill and expensive. Wharton is FA. Kalil looked like a rookie. Hartwig is injury prone and replaceable. Bridges is not a RG.

I'd cut Wahle and demote Bridges to back up tackle. Wharton can come back if he's relatively cheap and wants to move back to guard. I dont like Hartwig but I've read cutting him isn't financially beneficial until next offseason so he gets to stay. Pray that Kalil bulks up in the offseason. Get a LT in the draft and see if bringing in a road grader at guard is possible. The tackle prospect I like most so far (after Jake Long, who isnt possible) is Jeff Otah. Unfortunately, he's kind of raw and not really a fit for the ZBS. I'll take a more in depth look at guys who fit our scheme better. I just really hope we don't take Sam Baker. Scott's scouting report makes it sound like his ceiling is Gross and the whole USC connection doesn't turn me on him either. Long story short - I'd like a line (from LT to RT) of Draft Pick/New Guy or Wharton/Kalil/Hartwig or New Guy/Gross. I know Wahle will never get cut, though

DE - I don't like it, but we need to extend Peppers this offseason. We can't ride his $16M or whatever it is cap figure into next year without crippling our payroll. Also, while Peppers is saying this year doesn't hurt his contract demands...he's wrong...AND it certainly doesn't increase them. I think at worst we're looking at giving him Freeney's contract.

I'm off the McClover bandwagon, he's basically worthless in run D and I think he may hurt us by being out there with the way he runs himself out of plays. Charles Johnson is almost the opposite, good in run D...hasn't shown much of a pass rush. An interesting pick at 13 may be Calais Campbell but I'm not a fan. We don't need another guy like Peppers who's an athletic freak but only shows up to play X numbers of games a year. What we really need is a guy to replace what Rucker was in his prime - a good pass rusher, very good run supporter who comes to play every game. Johnson MAY be that guy but if we look elsewhere I wouldn't object. Remember, we need an Al Wallace type (top tier back up) here, too

DT - Kemoeatu has come on of late and the LBs have looked good this year, so he survives cuts this year. Jenkins is back on track, though I really wish someone would slap those dumbass offsides out of him. Also, keeping one of Damione Lewis or Kindal Moorehead should be a priority. And even if we keep all 4 of these guys we should look to improve here.

LB - Fine as is IMO. If we see someone we really like in the later rounds of the draft for WLB/ST depth, pull the trigger. Otherwise, leave this unit alone.

CB - Key stat here (also applies to LB): 12th ranked total defense, 32nd ranked in sacks. Gamble was spectacular before he got injured, Lucas is still good and Marshall is Marshall. Just imagine how much better these guys would look if we had any pass rush whatsoever.

S - Lock Chris Harris up!! He basically replaces Mike Minter as not only a good contributor in the secondary but a leader in the clubhouse (reading through the lines of clubhouse quotes). Deke can stay, but I don't want him starting next year. Quinton Teal seems like nice depth too. Screw Marquand Manuel. We were warned about his suckiness by Packers fans just like we were warned about David Carr from Texan fans.

K/P - Kasay can still kick FGs but his kickoffs killed us this year. Either Baker needs to takeover KO duties or we need a kickoff specialist. I've read we brought in a guy named Lloyd who did that, and did it well, vs the Bucs today. Good. And I'll be sad if Kasay gets beat out by Lloyd or a new kicker next year, but objectively it might be time to move on.

Rest of ST - We brought in some guys who started making plays at the end of the year. Donte Curry, Brandon Jamison and Adam Seward returned from injury. Ryne also started getting longer returns as this year went on. Coincidence? I think not. I still believe firing Crossman would be prudent, but those guys need to be retained for next year

My draft needs listed in order of importance: OT, DE, FS, WR, DT, RB

ShutDwn
12-31-2007, 09:46 AM
I'd also like to point out that Diggs played pretty well coming down the stretch. He was making plays just like Davis and Beason.

I think your order of need is right, it also fits into amount of impact that it would make as well as availability. Receiver rarely makes instant impact, and FS is not deep at all.

We need someone who will get to the QB with some god damn consistency.

Kenny Phillips -S
Sedrick Ellis- DT
Ryan Clady -OT
Jeff Otah- OT
Derrick Harvey- DE
Vernon Gholston- DE

And there is always Limas Sweed and Malcom Kelly. But I have mixed feelings on first round receivers. Could offer a lot of help, or a lot of disappointment. I really like Harvey and Gholston a lot on that list, Calias Campbell is out there too, but he seems like another Peppers, he didn't do much this past year.

SchizophrenicBatman
12-31-2007, 06:59 PM
Well the intriguing thing about Campbell is that he has 1st overall pick talent and it might be possible to steal him at 13. But yea, like we've both said, the problem is that he hasn't lived up to his hype and given our situation on the DLine we really can't take a risk like that

Harvey is a guy I haven't thought about much lately. He completely destroyed Ohio State in the NC last year. I wouldn't mind him at all

I've liked Kenny Phillips for a long time but he never really took that next step to be an elite safety prospect. I wonder where he would get picked in a year with a few more good prospects at his position (it's pretty barren after him) but 13 sounds about right for him value-wise the way this draft is set up. Remember, Beason didn't have a lot of hype around him either out of Miami because the team has fallen on tough times of late...

If we take a WR in the draft next year it needs to be more of a guy who is closer to his ceiling than a guy who runs a 4.3 and gets 1st round hype (Chad Jackson from a couple years back). Of course, the team probably thought that's what they were getting in Jarrett. The prospects I like here are Steve Johnson, Davone Bess types. Good route runners with solid hands. Keary was a guy like this before his hands turned to brick. And while his overall career has been a bust, remember he was able to come in and play as a rookie.

I'm also quietly on the Jordy Nelson bandwagon thats making rounds on this board. I dont think he's a 1st rounder but I dont see why he wouldnt be worth a 3rd or 4th. He has good hands, good size, can run away from DBs and had the production this year. His routes don't look all that sharp, though...so he might not be a guy who contributes immediately

ericcartman
12-31-2007, 11:54 PM
What do u guys think about Rex Ryan as our D-Coordinator, now that he does not have a job?

ShutDwn
01-01-2008, 12:13 AM
James Hardy is a good route runner, he is huge and has amazing hands despite what he did in the Insight bowl. Adarius Bowman is a great blocker, but it is really hard to judge receivers who are in an option offense and so much of their separation is a product of the play action.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-01-2008, 12:41 AM
What do u guys think about Rex Ryan as our D-Coordinator, now that he does not have a job?

id love Ryan as our DC but are we sure he got canned? ive heard mixed reports on what happened to the better assistants in balt

ive been intrigued with bowman for a while, but key on intrigued. hard to go wrong with guys who are excellent blockers, however

I really think WR might be better fit in FA for us, though. They wont give up on Jarrett already and Robinson seems like he can play on offense a little bit at least. Gotta bring in a guy we can count on instead of more question marks

ShutDwn
01-01-2008, 12:28 PM
ESPN reported that Ryan lost his job. But he won't be brought in, because Fox is a defensive guy and Ryan would want control.

ericcartman
01-01-2008, 04:33 PM
ESPN reported that Ryan lost his job. But he won't be brought in, because Fox is a defensive guy and Ryan would want control.

..not even when John's job is also on the line??????

I've also heard somewhere that Rex Ryan has aspirations of becoming a HC. Carolina might be a good bet for him within the next couple of years.

Why is the ST coach still with Carolina?

jdb1972
01-01-2008, 07:44 PM
If Ryan doesn't get a HC job somewhere, you have to think he'll wind up in Miami.

I'd love for the Panthers to take a shot at him, but Ryan's still more of a 3-4 guy, he would want more control than Fox would be likely to give up, and the Fox model is to promote from within whenever possible. If Trgo walks, I think Tim Lewis will move up.

FirstAndGoal
01-02-2008, 12:18 AM
I'd love to get RYan, but is there any reason to think he would come to Carolina? I haven't heard anything linking him and the Panthers. But it would be nice.
Trgovac needs to go. Our D hasnt played up to its potential since Del Rio left and Trgovac has been over his head the whole time. We shouldnt have promoted from within in the first place. I haven't heard much about his job being on the line, though.

ShutDwn
01-02-2008, 12:40 AM
I don't know why Trgo gets a pass for a defense that had the least amount of sacks in the league. I don't think it is a coincidence that when we bring in a new secondary coach, our secondary becomes our strong point and played like allstars behind that pass rush.

I just don't understand how you keep the guy who's defense is last in sacks when you have Julius Peppers and Kris Jenkins. I know that our front four has been over rated, but still, the amount of money and credentials to those names is ridiculous.

jdb1972
01-02-2008, 11:24 AM
We keep Trgo the same way we kept Colbert and Foster. Actually doing your job (or not) doesn't mean much in Foxland.

ShutDwn
01-02-2008, 01:10 PM
Colbert has to be gone. Now we have a more talented receiver from USC who isn't playing like they should.

Hopefully Ryne steps up, he could be pretty good in the slot.

FirstAndGoal
01-03-2008, 07:42 PM
i hope we give jarrett a chance. i think with a year of learning the system and playbook (which he had trouble with) should do him good and hopefully he will have a better year next year.

Stash
01-03-2008, 09:36 PM
How do you guys feel about Wharton? I think he's a FA so I was just wondering how he performed and if you want your team to keep him.

BlindSite
01-04-2008, 02:19 AM
He's pretty decent. IMO he's not going to ever make a probowl and if you lined up all the 32 left tackles in the NFL he'd be somewhere around 13, 14.

He's not a world beater, but he's very solid at times and for a former 3rd round pick who spent a year at guard he's extremely solid.

BlindSite
01-04-2008, 02:20 AM
Oh right, forgot why I clicked this thread.

As for Kenny Philips, I'd kind of prefer a veteran safety who can set a backfield and make adjustments on the field. We missed Minter's ability to read a play and know where to be to help a corner. With a rookie we won't get that back even if we get more highlight reel plays.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-04-2008, 04:56 PM
i dont know if id give him top half of the league

18-19 more realistic

he doesnt really hurt you, but doesnt help either

he struggles with speed rushers but other than that is solid

BlindSite
01-04-2008, 05:59 PM
You're forgetting he's a great run blocker. Better than most.

ShutDwn
01-08-2008, 03:34 PM
i dont know if id give him top half of the league

18-19 more realistic

he doesnt really hurt you, but doesnt help either

he struggles with speed rushers but other than that is solid

He doesn't struggle with speed rushers, he fails. I hate playing John Abraham, Wharton can't touch him. Actually, I blame Delhomme's injury on Wharton.


I don't think we need Phillips to be honest. We could find someone later in the draft to play this year or next. Guys like DeCoud or Reggie Smith who I have liked. Also, Aqib Talib or Tracy Porter are guys that could switch to safety. I wonder how the team looks at

Right now I really like Derrick Harvey, he is someone who could really bring fire to the pass rush. Lawrence Jackson is also out there, but he does not have the explosiveness Harvey does, though he is better against the run. I also think that Harvey's ceiling is higher, he can add some weight and get better versus the run. Not many rookie DE are great against the run, Peppers wasn't really until his third season. Charles Johnson seemed like a good guy against the run but lacked pass rush. Mcclover wasn't good at much, he just ran himself out of every play, run or pass.

My list right now:

Derrick Harvey
Lawrence Jackson - not sure where he projects, not top 15 I don't think

Peyton Hillis- this guy is a beast blocked for Jones and Mcfadden, but he is a legitmate runner and great receiver as well. He would be a nice addition late and possibly a power running option.

James Hardy- You want a big guy to replace Keyshawn? Here he is, the blocking isn't there yet, but Hardy does not need to be taught how to use his size. His hands are huge as he is 6-7, and he uses them well. His routes are good and he will go across the middle. He is possibly a first rounder with a good 40. Probably 1-2 round.

Adarius Bowman- Not as tall as Hardy, but is built like a tank. He is a lot like Anquan Boldin in Arizona, great after the catch and an absolutely nasty blocker.

My player that I want but know won't fall is Vernon Gholston who I think is going to be an absolute beast. (I know I'm not alone or going out on a limb much ha)

SchizophrenicBatman
01-09-2008, 11:02 AM
Generally you don't need Tommy John surgery because you've fallen hard on your arm. It's something that builds over time and eventually you just throw out by throwing too much or with a weird motion. I don't blame Wharton for that injury, though I won't be sad when he leaves

I have to admit I am not fond on using a pick as high as 13 on a safety that isn't an elite prospect. I'm going to pay more attention to Phillips from here on out though, because I felt Whitner was worth it for the Bills at 8 when most people didn't. Regardless I dont think itll matter since I doubt the current regime looks this way

I'd like to see us target a FB this offseason for sure. It's a criminally underrated facet to a good running game and if you get a guy who has some accessory skills (run ability, can catch passes) it's not like the pick is that much of a waste since you can move him around

ericcartman
01-11-2008, 08:52 AM
I might sound a little crazy, but what do you think about grabbing Rex Grossman off the FA market (only if he is cheap) to backup Jake?

ShutDwn
01-11-2008, 03:32 PM
I might sound a little crazy, but what do you think about grabbing Rex Grossman off the FA market (only if he is cheap) to backup Jake?
Please, no. He has already played in one of the easiest offenses and failed, why would he be better here?

Plus, Moore is the second back up as of now, no way I take Grossman over Moore. I would even say that Basanez is the third guy.

jdb1972
01-12-2008, 02:58 PM
He doesn't struggle with speed rushers, he fails. I hate playing John Abraham, Wharton can't touch him. Actually, I blame Delhomme's injury on Wharton.
Didn't Delhomme say that his elbow just popped all of a sudden? The play where he first started acting like it was hurting, no one hit him. He just threw the ball, then grabbed his arm.

ShutDwn
01-12-2008, 06:46 PM
sigh.. I was joking that it was Wharton's fault. The way I remember it was Jake got hit by Abraham and tried to continue playing.

Abraham should send Wharton gift baskets for letting him dominate two weeks every season.

ShutDwn
01-12-2008, 09:47 PM
I was looking at stats and man did Harris get robbed.

97 tackles, 1 INT, 8 FF, 5 PD

I guess fumbles aren't as fancy as interceptions. He deserves to go ahead of Sharper and Williams.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-13-2008, 12:32 AM
I dont think Grossman is that terrible of an idea. Basically the premise is that he can just chuck it deep and let Steve go get it. The problem is I think what you see is what you get with Rex. He's always going to have the games where he's just immeasurably terrible (even moreso than the way Jake is) and I'm not sure if that's what you want out of a vet back up. We already have the upside play with Moore and while I'd like to bring in a vet to fight with Basanez and push Jake/Matt, I'd prefer more of a...you know, "vet." Crafty guy who's been around the block and doesn't make mistakes.

BlindSite
01-13-2008, 03:24 AM
The question is though can Grossman improve from what he is now, to where he has the potential to be.

there's no point bringing him in if he's only going to be the same QB he was in chicago.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-14-2008, 10:54 AM
Yea and I worked through in my post. I just don't see him being capable of taking that next step, unless he was playing under a QB guru (and even then...). Plus, we already have an upside play in Moore. I don't think the idea is complete nonsense, but I don't think it's worth doing

ShutDwn
01-14-2008, 02:16 PM
I think bringing in Grossman is about the same as David Carr, except instead of throwing 2 yard passes without even going through his progressions Rex chucks it deep.

I would much rather look at McCown or Lemon than Grossman.

simmy1989
01-16-2008, 09:00 AM
I hope the Panthers have these 5 things on there to do list this offseason. We have a lot of talent that can get us far but we need to stay injury free and get a few players here and there.

1. Re-sign Jordan Gross-He's a franchise OT that we need to have success and go far

2. Get a power running back to go along with DeAngelo and then get rid of DeShaun Foster

3. Get a Saftey that can play opposite Chris Harris- AKA Kenny Phillips

4. Get a OLB to play with Beason and Davis-Sorry but if we want to win a super bowl Diggs won't cut it, I might be bias but being a season ticket holder and a big Illinois fan J lemen would be a steal and could make a big impact in 1-2 year + he can play OLB or ILB.

5. Get a TE-I'm not impressed enough with King but one interesting player that we could draft that might make Mike Rucker's decision to stay or retire eaiser is his brother Martin Rucker, he's a big time receiving TE and the coaches can work on his blocking, he could really stretch the field I think

ShutDwn
01-16-2008, 02:00 PM
I hope the Panthers have these 5 things on there to do list this offseason. We have a lot of talent that can get us far but we need to stay injury free and get a few players here and there.

1. Re-sign Jordan Gross-He's a franchise OT that we need to have success and go far

2. Get a power running back to go along with DeAngelo and then get rid of DeShaun Foster

3. Get a Saftey that can play opposite Chris Harris- AKA Kenny Phillips

4. Get a OLB to play with Beason and Davis-Sorry but if we want to win a super bowl Diggs won't cut it, I might be bias but being a season ticket holder and a big Illinois fan J lemen would be a steal and could make a big impact in 1-2 year + he can play OLB or ILB.

5. Get a TE-I'm not impressed enough with King but one interesting player that we could draft that might make Mike Rucker's decision to stay or retire eaiser is his brother Martin Rucker, he's a big time receiving TE and the coaches can work on his blocking, he could really stretch the field I think

You don't win with a LB like Diggs? I guess I can understand that, you'll never get to the superbowl with Reggie Howard or Terry Cousin either. Wait a second...

I highly doubt we draft Phillips, we don't need him as much as people think, we did pretty well with Cooper and I am guessing we can do it again. People talk like Phillips will come in and play like a 5 year veteren and fix all our problems. He isn't, he will be a rookie and a liability for a while. Also a safety won't help sack the QB or protect him so I don't see him being the choice.

Besides, I hope you don't expect this team to get to the superbowl next year.

WDJD10
01-16-2008, 03:05 PM
Are there any decent FA for the panthers to consider signing?

jdb1972
01-16-2008, 08:46 PM
Are there any decent FA for the panthers to consider signing?
Plenty of them. Probably not a ton they can afford, though.

I like these guys, though some will cost too much:

Justin Fargas (UFA)
Vertrand Morency (RFA)
Bryant Johnson (UFA)
Drew Carter (UFA, ours)
Jordan Gross (UFA, ours)
Jake Scott (UFA)
Terrell Suggs (UFA)
Ken Hamlin (UFA)

WDJD10
01-17-2008, 08:02 AM
Plenty of them. Probably not a ton they can afford, though.

I like these guys, though some will cost too much:

Justin Fargas (UFA)
Vertrand Morency (RFA)
Bryant Johnson (UFA)
Drew Carter (UFA, ours)
Jordan Gross (UFA, ours)
Jake Scott (UFA)
Terrell Suggs (UFA)
Ken Hamlin (UFA)
Does anyone think we can get a good trade for Deshaun Foster?
And does anyone think its possible to pick up dixon later in the draft

ShutDwn
01-17-2008, 02:06 PM
Does anyone think we can get a good trade for Deshaun Foster?
And does anyone think its possible to pick up dixon later in the draft

Foster won't get anything and I would probably say that we definitely won't get Dixon.

simmy1989
01-18-2008, 08:48 AM
You don't win with a LB like Diggs? I guess I can understand that, you'll never get to the superbowl with Reggie Howard or Terry Cousin either. Wait a second...

I highly doubt we draft Phillips, we don't need him as much as people think, we did pretty well with Cooper and I am guessing we can do it again. People talk like Phillips will come in and play like a 5 year veteren and fix all our problems. He isn't, he will be a rookie and a liability for a while. Also a safety won't help sack the QB or protect him so I don't see him being the choice.

Besides, I hope you don't expect this team to get to the superbowl next year.

No i don't think J lemen would make an impact right away, but i do expect these guys to contend in 2-3 years and Diggs is not that great of a player, he's ok but he just doesn't cut it in my mind

simmy1989
01-18-2008, 08:52 AM
Does anyone think we can get a good trade for Deshaun Foster?
And does anyone think its possible to pick up dixon later in the draft

Foster is done in this league has a RB or at least should be, he fumbles too much and deangelo is much better, we need a power back to complement DW not a fumbling problem thats not done that much in his career, he's a No.2 RB for a decent team at best and we treat him like a No.1 when DeAngelo should be No.1

jdb1972
01-18-2008, 10:27 PM
Does anyone think we can get a good trade for Deshaun Foster?
3.5 YPC, led all running backs in fumbles.

He'll be lucky if anyone signs him after we cut him.

BlindSite
01-19-2008, 11:49 PM
IMO Ken Hamlin and Terrell Suggs would be a marvellous option, I know at DE we've already got Johnson and McClover but we'd be better served taking Suggs and plugging him in at RDE, using McClover in a Mathias Kiwanuka type rushing linebacker role and using Charles Johnson as the guy to spell Peppers and Suggs to keep them fresh.

Gross ought to be resigned as he's a franchise RT and really is worth the money, this year he only gave up 3 sacks and helped in the run game tremendously when acting as the lead blocker.

I'd allow wharton to walk and cut Mike Wahle, I'd use Kalil as our centre and shift hartwig out to left guard. The first round pick would go on a LT, even if we had to trade up to get one.

The next move I'd make is to sign Ken Hamlin, the probowl is going to hurt his price tag, but realistically we lost out a lot this year because we didn't have enough experience or play calling players in the secondary.

IMO minter's loss hurt us more as an onfield defensive quarterback if you will than his play as a safety.

ShutDwn
01-20-2008, 12:50 AM
IMO Ken Hamlin and Terrell Suggs would be a marvellous option, I know at DE we've already got Johnson and McClover but we'd be better served taking Suggs and plugging him in at RDE, using McClover in a Mathias Kiwanuka type rushing linebacker role and using Charles Johnson as the guy to spell Peppers and Suggs to keep them fresh.

Gross ought to be resigned as he's a franchise RT and really is worth the money, this year he only gave up 3 sacks and helped in the run game tremendously when acting as the lead blocker.

I'd allow wharton to walk and cut Mike Wahle, I'd use Kalil as our centre and shift hartwig out to left guard. The first round pick would go on a LT, even if we had to trade up to get one.

The next move I'd make is to sign Ken Hamlin, the probowl is going to hurt his price tag, but realistically we lost out a lot this year because we didn't have enough experience or play calling players in the secondary.

IMO minter's loss hurt us more as an onfield defensive quarterback if you will than his play as a safety.

I don't think we lack leadership as much anymore because of Harris, I think he will step up as leader this next year. Hamlin would add a another solid and a bit more talented guy.

BlindSite
01-20-2008, 09:24 PM
Harris is no where near the field general minter was.

ShutDwn
01-21-2008, 12:13 AM
Harris is no where near the field general minter was.

Harris has started two seasons now, once on a Bears team with an already clearly defined leader and then as the new guy here.

Minter wasn't as great field general as people think. He himself wasn't always in position and that is part of being a leader.

BlindSite
01-22-2008, 02:58 AM
You're missing the point. Harris has had one and a half seasons starting in two completely different schemes.

Minter had time in 3 different defensive schemes under three different coaches, he had experience.

He could recognise plays and adjust our corners and linebackers. No one on the team can currently do that without Morgan or Minter there.

SchizophrenicBatman
01-23-2008, 11:07 PM
We missed the boat on Hamlin (though go back and you'll see I was all for signing him before this year) but I would love Suggs. I really think we need to consider the 2nd DE spot a big hole. If we get a top rusher and Peppers returns to form, what's wrong with having two elite DEs? And say Johnson or someone else develops more than we think...again, how is that bad? Look at the Giants, they have 4 really good DEs. It's a good problem to have. Worst case scenario Johnson plays tackle some.

Obviously WR2 needs to be of the same perspective. If I were the Panthers staff, I'd go into this offseason thinking the only WR we have on the roster is Smith. If Robinson turns into a good slot guy or if by some miracle Jarett or Carter become a legit #2 on top of the guy(s) we added...again, how is this an issue? An embarrasment of riches is never a bad thing. The Pats have it on offense with guys like Stallworth and Maroney not seeing as much time as they would on a lesser team.

There's nothing wrong with looking at a problem we have and overkilling it. Ultimately, the goal should be to have a Richard Marshall at every position. A guy capable of starting who just can't crack a loaded depth chart (whether or not he should actually have cracked it by now aside).

QB - bring in someone to compete with Basanez
RB - dump Foster, bring in a FA AND draft a guy like Matt Forte
WR - bring in a FA or two, AND draft one if he's BPA
OT - draft two guys if you can
DE - stopgap FA + draft pick?
DT - hell we need help here too
etc

granted with this strategy we're out of draft picks fast so you have to decide which positions are the largest problems and just find ways to get by elsewhere.

ShutDwn
01-24-2008, 02:33 PM
We missed the boat on Hamlin (though go back and you'll see I was all for signing him before this year) but I would love Suggs. I really think we need to consider the 2nd DE spot a big hole. If we get a top rusher and Peppers returns to form, what's wrong with having two elite DEs? And say Johnson or someone else develops more than we think...again, how is that bad? Look at the Giants, they have 4 really good DEs. It's a good problem to have. Worst case scenario Johnson plays tackle some.

Obviously WR2 needs to be of the same perspective. If I were the Panthers staff, I'd go into this offseason thinking the only WR we have on the roster is Smith. If Robinson turns into a good slot guy or if by some miracle Jarett or Carter become a legit #2 on top of the guy(s) we added...again, how is this an issue? An embarrasment of riches is never a bad thing. The Pats have it on offense with guys like Stallworth and Maroney not seeing as much time as they would on a lesser team.

There's nothing wrong with looking at a problem we have and overkilling it. Ultimately, the goal should be to have a Richard Marshall at every position. A guy capable of starting who just can't crack a loaded depth chart (whether or not he should actually have cracked it by now aside).

QB - bring in someone to compete with Basanez
RB - dump Foster, bring in a FA AND draft a guy like Matt Forte
WR - bring in a FA or two, AND draft one if he's BPA
OT - draft two guys if you can
DE - stopgap FA + draft pick?
DT - hell we need help here too
etc

granted with this strategy we're out of draft picks fast so you have to decide which positions are the largest problems and just find ways to get by elsewhere.

I would say that seeing as we should have been last in the league in sacks, that our biggest hole is at the RDE position. (We were technically second to last, but only because we got a few against Tampa in the last game).

The way this league is going you have got to be able to get to the QB by sending as few people as possible. The Chargers did we because they got pressure on Manning and Brady, the same goes for the Giants.

I would really love Derrick Harvey or a miracle with Vernon Gholston. Johnson didn't get enough looks for me to say that I am even close to comfortable starting him, and McClover runs himself out of every play. I am going into the draft and free agency with the mindset that I have nobody. The same goes for receiver other than Smith like you said.

ShutDwn
02-03-2008, 09:40 PM
The Super Bowl only furthers my point that drafting front four is the way to go. If you want to beat high power offenses you must have pressure from the front four. A safety did not win the Giants that game.

We should also look into getting some blitz packages that work.

jdb1972
02-08-2008, 11:42 AM
Then we must look into getting a DC willing and able to call blitzes.

ShutDwn
02-08-2008, 02:13 PM
Then we must look into getting a DC willing and able to call blitzes.

We call them, they just aren't executed correctly and they aren't at the right time. We do blitz more than people think

jdb1972
02-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Somewhat agree. Trgo called more blitzes the last 8 games of last year than he had in the previous 24 games combined.

His problem is that his idea of blitzing usually seems to be to walk a LB up to the line at exactly the point he's going to attack 10-20 seconds before the ball is snapped. Again, seemed to me this got better late last season. I even saw Beason fake a couple, though I have to wonder if that was done independent of Trgo. There was even one where they sent two LBs and a corner; I was so happy I almost cried.

ShutDwn
02-09-2008, 10:11 PM
Somewhat agree. Trgo called more blitzes the last 8 games of last year than he had in the previous 24 games combined.

His problem is that his idea of blitzing usually seems to be to walk a LB up to the line at exactly the point he's going to attack 10-20 seconds before the ball is snapped. Again, seemed to me this got better late last season. I even saw Beason fake a couple, though I have to wonder if that was done independent of Trgo. There was even one where they sent two LBs and a corner; I was so happy I almost cried.

Thank you for saying that. I have been thinking that for a while. We telegraph or intentions so much it is rediculous. We show exactly where we are blitzing far before the play and the QB simply points him out and the line picks him up.

Davis and Marshall are our best blitzers right now, I don't know how good Beason is though.

SchizophrenicBatman
02-11-2008, 08:04 PM
We blitz a good amount, we are just TERRIBLE at it.

I'm so happy we cut Wahle. Hopefully this signifies we're moving away from the blind loyalty.

ShutDwn
02-12-2008, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I love your sig. Especialy the screen part.

SchizophrenicBatman
02-21-2008, 05:49 PM
DeShaun Foster released.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5941/screenhunter019fd7.jpg

ShutDwn
02-21-2008, 11:00 PM
Saw that. Looks like it is going to be DeAngelo as the man. I have no problem with that, but I think we need and we will pursue someone to be a powerback and a compliment to DeAngelo.

I love Peyton Hillis

SchizophrenicBatman
02-22-2008, 01:01 AM
Hurney insinuates Jarrett as the #2 WR next year

wtf

I'm happy we're cutting the dead weight and all but it means nothing if we don't actually improve the team with those free spots. This is absurd and better just be smokescreens.

With regards to RB, my plan from day one of the offseason has been to cut Foster's sorry ass, sign an underappreciated FA on the cheap (Derrick Ward, Mewelde Moore, Chris Brown come to mind) then pick up another guy in the loaded draft. The mid-late round guy I've been on the most is Matt Forte but it seems his bandwagon is getting a little too much steam of late.

Anyway, with regards to depth chart that's perfect since we really didnt have a #3 RB last year. Goings can be hidden as the #2 FB if he doesn't miss next year with Morgan-itis, plus he has value on ST so I don't see a problem with having 4 guys.

ShutDwn
02-27-2008, 01:51 PM
I like that we signed Muhammed back to the team. I don't expect him to be like he was in 04, but I do hope he can get to around 600 yards. He obviously isn't the long term answer, but I think he is a familiar guy and one we can rely on to be at least dependable at the number two. We just need him to be good enough until someone takes the spot from him.

ShutDwn
02-27-2008, 06:59 PM
some quotes from nfl.com

"I did talk to Steve and he felt like he needs another complement on the other side of him," Muhammad said at a news conference. "He kind of coerced me into coming back. He welcomed me back with open arms. ... We're excited about playing again with each other. We've always maintained our friendship outside of football."


"If I'm the No. 3 receiver, they're going to have a real good No. 3 receiver on the field," said Muhammad, who is 64 yards shy of 10,000 yards receiving in his career.

"Everybody is extremely excited that he's back," Hurney said. "He brings an attitude. He brings a work ethic. He was somebody that was extremely highly regarded when he was here. It was a sad day when he left and it's a happy day now that he's back."


Whether or not he will be as effective in the passing game as we hope is unknown, however I do believe we can count on him to be a good blocker. Not to mention it should make Smith quite happy.

JPF
02-29-2008, 06:56 AM
Jenkins to the Jets for a 3rd & a 5th.

JustJoe2k5
03-01-2008, 08:32 AM
Long time no speak? A season like that just sucked all of the life out of me. However, I do like the moves this team has made early in the offseason. Glad to see Muhammad back, that is one mistake that never should have been made in the first place. Very happy to see Foster and Jenkins out, although I would've liked to have seen a little more in return for Jenkins.

Any word on who we plan to start at linebacker? I expect Beason in the middle and Davis in one of the outside spots, will we give the other job to another youngster or will a veteran be brought in to add a little experience to the group?

JustJoe2k5
03-01-2008, 08:39 AM
Don't like the Mendenhall pick in Wright's latest mock draft. He states that DeAngelo Williams hasn't shown that he can carry the load, but I would argue that he still hasn't been given a fair opportunity to carry the load. I would give Williams this season as the #1 ball-carrier, with a veteran free agent behind him, to prove whether he can be a starting runningback in the NFL. That first-round pick could be put to better use to address the defense or offensive line.

ShutDwn
03-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Don't like the Mendenhall pick in Wright's latest mock draft. He states that DeAngelo Williams hasn't shown that he can carry the load, but I would argue that he still hasn't been given a fair opportunity to carry the load. I would give Williams this season as the #1 ball-carrier, with a veteran free agent behind him, to prove whether he can be a starting runningback in the NFL. That first-round pick could be put to better use to address the defense or offensive line.

I don't think Scott understand needs very well. Fact is we were second to last in sacks and we just traded Jenkins. To me that has to put defensive line in the first. OT could be a second round pick.

I am disappointed that we didn't trade Jenkins for Huff. It would have worked for both teams very well.

pantherfreak
03-02-2008, 10:52 AM
Here's my plea for Fox/Hurney to draft App. State FS Corey Lynch. He's one of the best pure cover safeties in the NCAA. Dude is just one big ball of instincts and tackles.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AQZqkcubYjQ

* Started free safety (10 games) as Freshman (2003)
* Only Freshman named to the all Southern Conference team
* Six interceptions as a Freshman (2003)
* Thirteen interceptions by the end his Sophomore year
* One National Championship in 2005
* 2005 all American team
* Eighteen interceptions (18) totaled by Junior year
* 2006 all American team
* Helped Appalachian to their second National championship in
2006
* 2006 broken elbow needing surgery with pins. Played in a cast,
only missed 27 days (tough as nails)
* Begins Senior season among all time ASU leaders in interceptions
#3, fumble recoveries #2, and kick blocks #2
* 2007 pre season all American
* First Appalachian player since Dexter Coakley named Three time
all American?
* Avg. 85 tackles per year, on a team full of all American (how is
that possible)
* Appalachian has not lost a home game with him on the field

Brothgar
03-02-2008, 07:56 PM
Hey guys I'm trying to get a mock FA/ Draft goin and the Panthers are astill open

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18848

JustJoe2k5
03-03-2008, 07:52 AM
Any chance we take a look at Warrick Dunn, who most assume will be released shortly? He fits my bill as a veteran player who could serve as a mentor to DeAngelo Williams.

ShutDwn
03-03-2008, 03:17 PM
We don't need another small back though, we need some power

pantherfreak
03-03-2008, 08:20 PM
We don't need another small back though, we need some power

Just a thought, we should see if the Falcons are entertaining trade offers for Jerious Norwood. It's not like they gave Michael Turner $36 million to split carries.

pantherfreak
03-04-2008, 11:34 AM
We need a starting LT, DE, 2nd WR, and FS. Fox/Hurney have done nothing to address these needs in FA. I'd be ok with building through the draft if Hurney knew how to draft. Here's my two cents:

1. T Ryan Clady/T Jeff Otah/T Chris Williams/T Carl Nicks
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bz9k1hE_-aQ

2. DT Trevor Laws
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Y5UwdnpW3sA

3. RB Matt Forte
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_bbaIF22NGQ

3. DE Calais Campbell
4. WR Dexter Jackson
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GeuCmr5dfns

6. FS Corey Lynch
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AQZqkcubYjQ

7. FB Jacob Hester
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PRJczt7YZF4

ShutDwn
03-04-2008, 03:56 PM
I think we are going to pick an end lineman. Whether that is DE or LT I don't know right now, the FO is in idaho checking out Clady today.

ShutDwn
03-08-2008, 10:21 AM
So we signed Lebrandon Toefield and Landon Johnson. Johnson could turn out very well or at worst a good backup.

Toefield could bust out or just be average.

I think that we will pick DE and LT in the first two picks

JustJoe2k5
03-08-2008, 12:37 PM
From the report on KFFL, it would appear the Panthers are very interested in Clady. I suppose Wharton would be reverted to guard once more.

I wouldn't be against the move. Most seem to think Clady is one of those rare prospects who God created specifically for the left tackle position.

An improved offensive line can only help the offense, which I think many will underrate this season. I don't think the rest of the NFL realizes just how important Muhammad was to Delhomme and likewise.

68-17 Was The Score
03-10-2008, 04:56 PM
With the departure of Kris Jenkins, I think we need to add a proven DT such as Rod Coleman. He isn't the run stopper Kris was but certainly a better pass rusher. And with him as a pass rusher and Maake as our run stopper this could also put less pressure on Julius Peppers

JPF
03-12-2008, 10:14 PM
Hartwig released, Carter signed with Oakland....

We're bringing Hackett in for a visit, and had Chris Carr in Monday.

ShutDwn
03-12-2008, 11:39 PM
I wouldn't mind signing both those guys. Carr can be a good return man and special teamer.

JustJoe2k5
03-14-2008, 11:34 AM
Has the front office already given up on Dwayne Jarrett?

With Muhammad back in the fold, I figured wide receiver would be fairly low on the priority list. I'd like to see what Jarrett and Robinson are able to do in their second season before we give their spot to someone else.

JPF
03-14-2008, 11:53 AM
With Jarrett getting that DWI, I'd imagine they're considering that strike 2 (strike 1 being his lack of ability to get on the field last year).

ShutDwn
03-14-2008, 01:18 PM
With Jarrett getting that DWI, I'd imagine they're considering that strike 2 (strike 1 being his lack of ability to get on the field last year).

I don't see it as a strike, that would be way to hasty. We are looking at signing Hackett right now, maybe we will. Receivers should always be given at least three years to make the transition, unless it is behavioral (and a DWI should is not that big a crime, though some argue it is)

ShutDwn
03-17-2008, 03:43 PM
Love the signing of Hackett. If he gets injured, oh well we got him for cheap, if not, than we got a great deal. Hackett, Moose and Smith give us a formidable receiving core, and if Jarrett can step up it will be even better. (Who knows maybe Robinson would over take Jarrett?) This signing I think is tied for my favorite along with Johnson. Our LBs and our Receivers are now pretty nice on paper.

This only continues what has been a drastically different offseason from years past. No overspending on guys like Whale or Lucas, just good deals for decent players who may have some more potential.

Hackett-
Johnson
Toefield
Moose
Brayton

To me this is how you use free agency, you add solid veterans who contribute steadily, you don't break the bank for one star.

It still looks like we are going to draft Oline in the first, and probably defensive line after.

JustJoe2k5
03-18-2008, 09:11 AM
Any idea about what the team plans to do at safety? Chris Harris was a nice surprise last season, but no one stepped up and really proved they deserved the spot across from him. I'd love to pick up Kenny Phillips in the draft, but that only happens if we trade down again.

ShutDwn
03-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Any idea about what the team plans to do at safety? Chris Harris was a nice surprise last season, but no one stepped up and really proved they deserved the spot across from him. I'd love to pick up Kenny Phillips in the draft, but that only happens if we trade down again.

While an athletic safety would be nice, I don't see how he would help. We had good coverage, we just couldn't hold it long enough, and no one can cover for that long anyway. We need to get to the QB better, and also protect the QB. Those to me should be the main goals.

Hines
03-18-2008, 06:53 PM
Tell me about Justin Hartwig.

ShutDwn
03-18-2008, 10:05 PM
Injured some and didn't really get much push for us. Hard to tell though if that was because teams went at Whale so much. However we definitely hurt when he was injured and rookie Kalil took over.

ShutDwn
04-28-2008, 07:47 PM
Stewart- He has been compared it Ladanian Tomlinson and is probably the best runner in the draft. He offers a great one two punch with Williams.

Otah- At least our run game will be better, assuming Wharton moves inside to his best position. Hopefully he can pick up the passing game quickly, or at least be so punishing at run blocking the defense is too tired.

Godfrey- Fox has officially said that Godfrey will play safety and compete to start. (radio show). He is finally the athlete we have been wanting, good tackler, best in zones, and a ball hawk.

Connor- I guess that Anderson and Seward are out basically. We have a tremendous group now though with Beason, Davis, Diggs, Johnson and Connor. Where Connor goes I have no idea, but if he plays he must be legitimately better than both Johnson and Diggs, because they are both solid guys who will make plays once in a while.

brat316
04-28-2008, 08:00 PM
Will Dwayne Jarrett play this year...

SchizophrenicBatman
04-29-2008, 12:08 AM
Will Dwayne Jarrett play this year...

not much. id put the odds on him getting 25 catches lower than him getting cut after camp

ShutDwn
04-29-2008, 08:56 PM
I must say that this offseason has been nothing short of spectacular in my eyes.

Free Agents

Tyler Brayton
Landon Johnson
LeBrandon Toefield
Muhsin Muhammed
D.J. Hackett
Terrance Holt
Darwin Walker
Ian Scott
Ricardo Colclough

Draft
Jonathan Stewart
Jeff Otah
Charles Godfrey
Dan Connor
Gary Barnidge
Nick Taylor
Hilee Taylor
Goeff Swartz
Mackenzy Bernadeau

Plus we locked up Harris for 4 years

I think that we should be able to expect everyone on that list up to Barnidge to contribute in some way. We added good veteran depth as well as young extremely talented guys like Stewart, Otah and Godfrey. I think the team has a great mix of role players and and possible stars. All our defensive line free agents will look 10x better if Peppers decides to play like he should (which is better than he ever has)

Vikes99ej
05-02-2008, 01:20 PM
Where is Connor going to play in your defense? You LB core looks locked up for years with Thomas Davis, Beason, and Connor.

ShutDwn
05-02-2008, 01:50 PM
He probably won't play for a while but maybe strongside? I don't know, putting players at their best positions isn't always our strong point

ShutDwn
05-04-2008, 12:16 PM
I hate how people keep saying that we should switch to the 3-4 because we have some good linebackers. They don't freaking fit the scheme. If we do that we are looking at another Vilma with Beason. In my eyes Thomas Davis is the only one who could fit.

xooberon
05-04-2008, 12:55 PM
lol, someone's been reading too much of the huddle

but yeah i agree, it is annoying when people keep constantly bringing it up

Aftermath
05-10-2008, 12:04 AM
Hows Rosario been for you guys? Im an Oregon fan and now the Panthers are my second favorite team after picking up Stewart.

ShutDwn
05-10-2008, 02:35 PM
He did very well on special teams and really became a favorite to break out next year with some really nice catches at the end of the year.

xooberon
05-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Hows Rosario been for you guys? Im an Oregon fan and now the Panthers are my second favorite team after picking up Stewart.

he played alot of ST but he did break into the offense for the last few games, i think he ended up with like 6 catches for about 100+ yards and 2 TDs. displayed good athleticism and is more of the receiving TE than king is. seemed to develop some chemistry with matt moore that could help him out if delhomme goes down again.

so yeah... we've got high hopes for him =)

ShutDwn
05-13-2008, 05:43 PM
The Panthers third-round draft pick, safety Charles Godfrey, looks fluid and comfortable on the field. He's a glider with 4.4 speed and has a smooth, agile backpedal. And he seems to wield a quiet confidence reminiscent of Richard Marshall.

I am really excited for Godfrey. He has some GREAT guys to learn from in the secondary, all of them can help him. Harris also gets better if Godfrey learns quickly and is able to play deeper in coverage and Harris closer.

I am also really excited about Stewart and DeAngelo. I think they are going to be a big topic by midseason.

My only question marks other than rookies is the performance of both lines. Otah is the big one on the offensive line, and someone stepping up at the opposite end of Peppers. I have also heard of moving Peppers to Rucker's old spot. I think that would help him because he would be coming at most QB's blindsides.

ShutDwn
05-14-2008, 03:57 PM
Fox made it clear that third-round pick Charles Godfrey of Iowa made a strong impression in his first minicamp. Godfrey practiced at free safety with the first-team defense after playing cornerback the past two seasons in college.

"He adapted well," Fox said of Godfrey. "It didn't look like it was too big for him. He fit in well. Our players liked him."

Fox said receiver Steve Smith came back to the huddle at one point, saying, "Man, (number) 30 is pretty good."

"Smitty doesn't give out a lot of compliments," Fox said, smiling.

Man, he is making me excited. I tend to take most compliments in training camp/mini camp with a grain of salt but when Smith says it, I usually take it more seriously as he is not one to give other guys, especially defensive guys, too much credit.

eaglesfan_45
06-01-2008, 09:13 PM
Panthers Madden Rankings:

http://www.pastapadre.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/madden-09-player-ratings/pantherso.jpg
http://www.pastapadre.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/madden-09-player-ratings/panthersd.jpg

xooberon
06-03-2008, 03:18 PM
chris harris can't get no respect lol

also where be otah...

ChezPower4
06-27-2008, 09:58 AM
Man, he is making me excited. I tend to take most compliments in training camp/mini camp with a grain of salt but when Smith says it, I usually take it more seriously as he is not one to give other guys, especially defensive guys, too much credit.

I liked Godfrey a lot during the draft and really hoped that the Packers would take him with the one of their second round picks. I knew that he would be a good player. It sounds like he has done very well in the OTA's. Just wondering is he going to stay at safety or are they going to use him at both Safety and corner?

ShutDwn
06-27-2008, 10:16 PM
I liked Godfrey a lot during the draft and really hoped that the Packers would take him with the one of their second round picks. I knew that he would be a good player. It sounds like he has done very well in the OTA's. Just wondering is he going to stay at safety or are they going to use him at both Safety and corner?

He is going to stay at safety. He is really excelling there and is already the most talented safety. Steve Smith has complimented him in the OTAs too and that isn't easy to achieve.

ChezPower4
07-09-2008, 03:38 PM
He is going to stay at safety. He is really excelling there and is already the most talented safety. Steve Smith has complimented him in the OTAs too and that isn't easy to achieve.

Nice to see that he's doing well, will definitely keep and eye out for him this season and if i'm not mistaken i believe that we play you guys this season

FirstAndGoal
07-15-2008, 12:47 PM
If the Packers trade/release Favre, should the Panthers try to get him? Will they?

I'm torn on the issue. Delhomme is not young, but he is a good bit younger than Favre, who would only play one, *maybe* two more seasons. Delhomme hopefully will play a bit longer. But Delhomme is recovering from surgery and we dont know how he will do in a game situation. Plus, while he had a fine start to last season, people tend to forget his horrible year before when some people wanted to bench him for Chris Weinke. I say take Favre if possible, he is one of the best QBs to ever play.

xooberon
07-16-2008, 11:21 AM
In my opinion no,

1) We'll be giving up another (probably high) draft pick
2) His contract will be massive
3) Could cause locker room problems, if delhomme does prove his fitness i don't think favre would be happy playing second fiddle to him.
4) He said he doesn't want to come to a contender (:cool:)
5) Personally i hate the guy

ShutDwn
07-26-2008, 11:35 AM
Thomas Davis moved from strong side to weakside.

IMO he should have been there when he first was moved.

iworshipbender
07-27-2008, 07:34 PM
Rookie running back Jonathan Stewart made a strong first impression on veteran cornerback Ken Lucas during the opening practice of Panthers' training camp Saturday morning.

Lucas came up to pursue Stewart and was greeted with an aggressive stiff-arm from the first-round pick who bench presses over 400 pounds, weighs 235 and has run the 40-yard dash in less than 4.5 seconds.

"I went over to the sidelines and told the guys, weve got us something here. Hes going to be able to get a lot of those tough yards for us when we need them. The more we stay off the field, it helps us out as a defense. I welcome him.Enjoy :Drbgljsfkdgjhsl

ShutDwn
08-10-2008, 12:04 AM
well, I typed out some observations and then lost them. I'll summarize I guess.

Peppers was good
Godfrey was good from what I could tell
Deangelo was decisive
Jarrett was tough, caught 4 passes, one out of bounds but held on.
Jason Carter has shifty-ness, liked him
Thomas Davis got some pressure, hope for more
Starting DBs were in for like 3 plays, except Godfrey
Goings will be the third runningback
If Stewart is as good as we hear, we will have a truly nasty combination, as long as the line is good.

SchizophrenicBatman
08-11-2008, 03:55 PM
Yea that was a nice preseason game other than the fact that other backups got roughed up pretty hard by the Colts' Not a good sign imo since Indy is renown for having no depth and we always lose a ton of people to injury

Peppers looks to be back, the Toefield signing was a waste. Birmingham is the best RB to wear 26 in this teams history and Goings, when he isn't Morgan'd, is about as a solid a bet as there is in the NFL to get positive yardage...it's just his max gain is about 5 yards

Jarrett had some good plays and some bad ones. The almost INT where he got owned by the DB was Moore's fault more than anything, but still. You can see the potential though, and I really doubt he's headed the way of Shelton after yesterday

Carter looked more like one of those pesky possession receivers than a mini-Smith as he was billed from camp, but that's better than Biddle or Efrem Hill I guess. Not sure how long he'll stick around, but he could be a Jabar Gaffney type for us if he improves some more

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-11-2008, 06:03 PM
Just thought i'd drop a line and let you guys know that i ordered my Jon Beason jersey online today and am pretty pumped. I loved the guy as a Hurricane and he did nothing but increase the love last season. I expect big things, and look forward to seeing the Panthers again this season with their new additions and healthy lineup. I've always promoted the Panthers as my 'NFC team'. Can't compete with my Jets, but i love the Panthers style and players.

All the best to an injury free season.

ShutDwn
08-12-2008, 10:51 AM
Just thought i'd drop a line and let you guys know that i ordered my Jon Beason jersey online today and am pretty pumped. I loved the guy as a Hurricane and he did nothing but increase the love last season. I expect big things, and look forward to seeing the Panthers again this season with their new additions and healthy lineup. I've always promoted the Panthers as my 'NFC team'. Can't compete with my Jets, but i love the Panthers style and players.

All the best to an injury free season.

nice, he should continue to get better and and become a even better leader. I don't know about other rookies, but I do know that Beason started being viewed as the leader in the last few games.

In other news, Jarrett went down without being touched and was carted off. Now, it sounds very bad, but I don't know any more and they have carted every injury off it seems

EDIT
found out just now that it was a bruise or something? Must have been bad

xooberon
08-15-2008, 12:21 PM
so i was out last night and missed the game. ive heard deangelo looked good again but how did everyone else look?

ShutDwn
08-15-2008, 12:55 PM
so i was out last night and missed the game. ive heard deangelo looked good again but how did everyone else look?

He looked good when he had the room to move.

The defense was hard to judge with all the DBs out, the fron four was getting okay pressure but not good enough.

Jake had pressure on him, but didn't really have anyone to throw it to with all those receivers out.

Godfrey looked good in run support, sticking Westbrook once.

Otah didn't let much pressure in, was good in run blocking.

Stewart got time against second team. I think the eagles are a lot deeper across their front four, he had no room to even take his first step.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-15-2008, 03:08 PM
Moose okay after taking that lick from Dawkins?

xooberon
08-15-2008, 04:01 PM
thanks for the recap shutdwn. how bad was the hit that moose took?

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-15-2008, 04:03 PM
it was pretty nice, with a tad of a helmet to helmet impact. It was in the endzone, provided by Brian Dawkins. It did end up jarring the ball lose, and Moose did play after the hit, so i don't see it making him miss any time, but it was a vicious hit.

ShutDwn
08-16-2008, 10:44 AM
it was pretty nice, with a tad of a helmet to helmet impact. It was in the endzone, provided by Brian Dawkins. It did end up jarring the ball lose, and Moose did play after the hit, so i don't see it making him miss any time, but it was a vicious hit.

I'd say it was full on helmet to helmet. Definitely a fine-able hit.

ShutDwn
08-18-2008, 10:53 PM
I really hope we can sure up another defensive line position, if we can, I love our defense. Perhaps we can find someone who doesn't make the final cut. There could be a guy like Javon Haye, or Tony Brown. Not that I want guys just like them, but quality players who get snubbed at the final cut. Hopefully that player is a defensive end.

JustJoe2k5
08-24-2008, 10:55 AM
-Even after his breakout performance last night, I would still say DeAngelo Williams should be the starter this season. If last night was any indication, we have finally found the perfect combination at the runningback position.

-Dwayne Jarrett was solid last night and I could definitely see a chemistry develop between him and Delhomme similar to the chemistry Delhomme has with Muhammad.

-All-around, I thought the defense played one of the best games I have ever seen them play last night. The defensive line rendered Washington's running game useless and the secondary was on the spot at every reception to make sure there weren't any yards after the catch.

When is D.J. Hackett expected to be back on the field?

ShutDwn
08-24-2008, 01:48 PM
-Even after his breakout performance last night, I would still say DeAngelo Williams should be the starter this season. If last night was any indication, we have finally found the perfect combination at the runningback position.

-Dwayne Jarrett was solid last night and I could definitely see a chemistry develop between him and Delhomme similar to the chemistry Delhomme has with Muhammad.

-All-around, I thought the defense played one of the best games I have ever seen them play last night. The defensive line rendered Washington's running game useless and the secondary was on the spot at every reception to make sure there weren't any yards after the catch.

When is D.J. Hackett expected to be back on the field?

I think he should be back by the opener.


Game notes:

+ Jake looked bad at first, but pulled it together. Our run game is going to be huge in calming him down and letting him make plays.

+ Stewart and Williams, these guys are going to be good. They are threats to go all the way and they seem fine with being a duo. Also, on the Rosario Touchdown, Stewart made a block that let it all happen, hitting the linebacker right in the hole.

+ Rosario was very good, I have said it all offseason, he is going to be a good receiving tightend for us. Once again he makes the athletic catches and also shows speed up the seam.

+ Jarrett played well again making nice catches short and down the field. He also made a nice block on Stewart's touchdown. Hopefully he continues this into the regular season because he will undoubtedly be the third receiver while Smith is gone.

+ The offensive line was outstanding. The opened holes and sealed off tacklers all night.

+ The defensive line was also very good. They dominated the redskins offensive line especially against the run. Hopefully I see more of what Charles Johnson displayed, we need lots of energy on the other side of the defensive line.

+ Jason Carter will make the team because of Robinson and Smith both being out for the time being. He also gets a decent return when he gets the chance.

+ Lloyd looks ridiculous. I don't want to see us letting him go. Those touchbacks are huge. They are awesome for field position, as well as the health of our players. If the team is taking touchbacks, that means less hitting for them and they stay healthy. It is also very frustrating for the other team.
___________________________________


For the next game, obviously the starters won't play much more than a few plays. So I want to see some guys like Dicario Birmingham who has looked good, better than Toefield in my opinion. We will also have to watch Coulclough and Wilson.

SchizophrenicBatman
08-24-2008, 03:11 PM
http://www.wcsv.org/Education/Success/crow.jpg

I was wrong about Jarrett. I never liked the pick to begin with but I wrote him off way too early. Looks like he can at least be solid for us

Could Williams/Stewart = Taylor/MJD?

And yes, Rhys Lloyd is WAY more important to this team than back up linebacker #6

ShutDwn
08-24-2008, 03:27 PM
I was wrong about Jarrett. I never liked the pick to begin with but I wrote him off way too early. Looks like he can at least be solid for us

Could Williams/Stewart = Taylor/MJD?

And yes, Rhys Lloyd is WAY more important to this team than back up linebacker #6

Once he started disappointing in TC last year I didn't really like him either, but he has proven a lot to me this preseason. I wish he could have played last week. He has shown up in more than just receiving too. I hope Hackett will be well enough to be effective, because Jarrett could really do damage against a nickle back. I hope for Moose to get rough with Cromartie or Jammer.

I like that comparison for Stewart, but I don't know if anyone is comparable to Taylor, he is just ridiculous. I think they will blaze their own path and be very popular by midseason. I want to see some of Stewart's pass catching ability.

The player I want to show me something the most right now is probably Charles Johnson. I want he and Brayton to combine for at least 10 sacks, if they do that I think our defense will be superb.

iloxygenil
08-24-2008, 04:40 PM
I'm not going to lie...as a Falcons fan the Panthers are the team that I'm worried about this year. I know we'll at least split with NO and Tampa...but you guys...not so sure about that. We're a much better team than people are giving us credit for, but I can't say that I like the prospect of Williams and Stewart for the next decade. Delhomme I couldn't care less about, he's less than scary, but the fact that he's only got to throw the ball 12 yards out to Smith on a screen to score a touchdown...well that makes your passing offense one to worry about.

Your defense is frightening though, because Julius isn't going to have another off year, he's going to be a terror again, especially with Big Bully helping spell him etc. Atlanta's OL is MUCH better than it has been, but it's still not on the level to compete with the possible level of where your DL can be. I'm hoping for a good couple of games this year, but I'm crossing my fingers hoping for a split.

ShutDwn
08-24-2008, 06:03 PM
I'm not going to lie...as a Falcons fan the Panthers are the team that I'm worried about this year. I know we'll at least split with NO and Tampa...but you guys...not so sure about that. We're a much better team than people are giving us credit for, but I can't say that I like the prospect of Williams and Stewart for the next decade. Delhomme I couldn't care less about, he's less than scary, but the fact that he's only got to throw the ball 12 yards out to Smith on a screen to score a touchdown...well that makes your passing offense one to worry about.

Your defense is frightening though, because Julius isn't going to have another off year, he's going to be a terror again, especially with Big Bully helping spell him etc. Atlanta's OL is MUCH better than it has been, but it's still not on the level to compete with the possible level of where your DL can be. I'm hoping for a good couple of games this year, but I'm crossing my fingers hoping for a split.

Without Hall I don't know how well you guys can contain Smith.. However, John Abraham should have some nice games against Gross. Otah against Anderson should be interesting, those guys are mammoths.

iloxygenil
08-24-2008, 06:47 PM
To be completely honest, Grimes looks better so far than Hall has. He doesn't have the ball skills, no one will debate that, but in coverage he's been glue. Of course Smith is a different animal and I think that Hall may be the best matchup one on one with him. I'm not worried about him getting that deep ball, I'm more worried about the screens, but Grimes has proven that he has NO problem tackling reference the Arizona game last year.

Abe is going to get his, I don't care who you have over there, you just have to contain the other side, if you shift too much help that way then Jamaal will get him some. He's by NO means Abraham, but he's not nearly as bad as most of the Falcons fans here say he is. He's still got a lot to learn, but the good thing is, he's 22, he should be a rookie this year, he does have time to grow.

The thing I'm most worried about is stopping that run up the middle. Grady does a great job, but he can't do it alone. I believe that Lofton will be a terror to run against and will cause them to bounce outside, but that's our only hope.

SchizophrenicBatman
08-25-2008, 12:02 PM
Abraham always destroys us, we just have to hope he misses time against or something.

Also, a few posts up, I wasnt comparing our duo to Taylor and MJD specifically, just saying they could equal their impact and production

ShutDwn
08-25-2008, 01:34 PM
Abraham always destroys us, we just have to hope he misses time against or something.

Also, a few posts up, I wasnt comparing our duo to Taylor and MJD specifically, just saying they could equal their impact and production

Yeah I get ya.

Alright guys so Jason Carter is done for the year. This complicates two positions now, both the punt return position and the 3rd or 4th receiver position depending on Hackett.

Right now we have Travis Taylor, Hannon, or Dominique Thompson to choose from to take his place on the final roster. None of them are particularly appealing, but Taylor has experience at least, so he won't be scared. Bringing another receiver in won't help right away because they won't know the playbook. If a return man turns up on the wire though, we should take him. Otherwise Coulclough is probably the punt returner, which isn't too bad.

I think that Hackett will be ready for the opener. In which case I expect to be starting Moose, Hackett and Jarrett. One thing we could do is put DeAngelo out there at receiver in the slot on some plays, even as a distraction. I would also try and get Rosario into the passing game more, he has tons of athleticism and is big enough to shield defenders. He may even get some slot action.

Something I really want to see is DeAngelo and Stewart in the backfield at the same time, but without Jake. If they can work on the zone read play, they would be deadly. I would have DeAngelo taking the snaps because I like his burst if that defensive end chases down the line.

For now, I think those are the types of things this offense needs to really get some big plays.

JustJoe2k5
08-25-2008, 05:14 PM
I would probably put Rosario at wide receiver before Williams. Our offense will likely lean very heavily on the Stewart/Williams combination out of the backfield for those first two games. I also like Rosario's potential as a pure receiver and think his size could give him quite the advantage against cornerbacks or safeties.

ShutDwn
08-25-2008, 05:46 PM
I just worry because we now have no receiver who can threaten the defense deep. The Chargers will undoubtedly put eight in the box and leave their corners on an island.