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View Full Version : Marc Bulger aka Mr. Under rated


bored of education
05-07-2007, 04:06 PM
Position: QB
Height: 6-3
Weight: 212
Born: 04/05/1977
College: West Virginia
NFL Experience: 7

Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2001 St. Louis Rams 0 0 0 0 --- 0 --- 0 0 0 0/0 0 0 ---
2002 St. Louis Rams 7 7 214 138 64.5 1826 8.53 58 14 6 12/102 26 6 101.5
2003 St. Louis Rams 15 15 532 336 63.2 3845 7.23 48 22 22 37/288 59 5 81.4
2004 St. Louis Rams 14 14 485 321 66.2 3964 8.17 56 21 14 41/302 56 6 93.7
2005 St. Louis Rams 8 8 287 192 66.9 2297 8.00 57 14 9 26/188 25 3 94.4
2006 St. Louis Rams 16 16 588 370 62.9 4301 7.31 67 24 8 49/366 60 10 92.9
TOTAL 60 60 2106 1357 64.4 16233 7.71 67 95 59 165/1246 226 30 91.3


Bulger might be the most under rated/under appreciated QB in the NFL. I would rank him number 4 on my list of Qbs behind Peyton, Brady and Carson. Very solid arm that can make all the throws and a very accurate arm decent velocity. Is goodfor at least 4,000 yards, 24 tds and under 10 INTS, 62-66 completion %.

Has the weapons around him Holt, Bruce, Bennett, McDaniel, Jackson, Klophenstein, Leonard etc.

Does he have the leadership intangibles to lead the team to the promised land?
I think so, the defense is only getting better. Jackson is an elite back, Holt an elite receiver. He doesn't make a lot of mistakes, but takes chances and attempts throws the normal Qb wouldn't attempt. Reminds me of Trent Green 3-4 years ago.

I think he is good for another 6-9 years if he stays healthy.


Why no love? Product of system?

bsaza2358
05-07-2007, 04:08 PM
Bulger just turned 30, and he's taken a huge beating the last few years standing in the pocket to deliver the ball. I think that Bulger is a top 10 QB in the game today, but he can be taken off his game with pressure and his scrambling abilities are not fantastic. I don't think he has another 6-9 years in him as the unquestioned starter of the Rams. I assume he has another 2-3 years, then they'll draft an heir apparent.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 04:10 PM
The addition of Brian Leonard could be huge.

bsaza2358
05-07-2007, 04:18 PM
I'm not sure what the actual point of this thread is. Yes, Bulger is underrated, but really, so what?

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 04:21 PM
I'm not sure what the actual point of this thread is. Yes, Bulger is underrated, but really, so what?

Pretty much. Not to mention that Bulger hasn't even been able to match what Kurt Warner did with the Rams, and as soon as he left that supporting cast he became a career backup again.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 04:21 PM
Ummmm, ummmm I don't know. Maybe the reasons why he is the msot underrated player in the NFL. Mike Vrabel most underrated Defensive player.

bsaza2358
05-07-2007, 04:25 PM
Reasons why Bulger is underrated:

1. People used to talk way too much about Martz being a genius. This meant he took a back seat.

2. Bulger replaced Kurt Warner. Warner had more impressive numbers in a short period of time under Vermiel and Martz. Bulger is more steady.

3. Bulger cannot run a lot, and he doesn't make a lot of the big crazy highlight reel plays. Not a lot of media exposure.

4. Like it or not, St. Louis is a small media market, so they don't get the attention.

5. St. Louis isn't winning games. When you don't win a ton of games, you lose credibility as a top QB.

6. Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce are not crazy media-savvy guys. They do their jobs, catch the ball, and go home. They don't do the stuff like CJ and TO. That leads to less attention.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 04:27 PM
yes, that is what i was eluding to.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 04:45 PM
I have him as my rated #5 Quarterback, only behind Manning, Brady, Palmer, Brees. Actually, I think if you asked most people they would all have him in the top-8 at least. So I don't think he is that underrated, per say.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 05:40 PM
Yeah Brees is toe to toe wiht hiim in my opinion. Brees could easily supplant hiim though. Brees is just dirty.

JCshutEmDown
05-07-2007, 05:40 PM
5. St. Louis isn't winning games. When you don't win a ton of games, you lose credibility as a top QB.


Bingo. But it's not Bulger's fault, he does his part and then some to win games.

etk
05-07-2007, 06:45 PM
Mike Vrabel most underrated Defensive player.

Yeah and GRF is the most underrated poster.

princefielder28
05-07-2007, 06:47 PM
Yeah and GRF is the most underrated poster.

Valid!!! :)

GB12
05-07-2007, 06:49 PM
So are you a KC or St. Louis fan?

Phrost
05-07-2007, 06:50 PM
Pretty much. Not to mention that Bulger hasn't even been able to match what Kurt Warner did with the Rams, and as soon as he left that supporting cast he became a career backup again.

Well Warner had the most dangerous weapon in the NFL, Marshall Faulk, in his prime. He also had Isaac Bruce in his prime, a younger Holt. Yada yada yada.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 06:57 PM
Byron Leftwich is the most under rated giraffe on ice in the NFL.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 07:00 PM
Chiefs but I enjoy the Rams. I made someones sig!!!

niel89
05-07-2007, 07:02 PM
ha! Bulger is only 6'3" that is clearly shorter than 6'6".


although Marc Bulger has a perfect pornstar name

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 07:03 PM
I think Bulger is a good QB, but people say he's underrated so much, that its not really even true anymore.


He is a product of the system to an extent, and he has a GREAT supporting cast. I dont see him leading drives to win games or anything like that either (although I admittedly dont watch the Rams every week)


If I had to rank him among QBs, I would probably put him somewhere from 9 to 11

LitoSheppard
05-07-2007, 07:10 PM
Marc Bulger has a perfect pornstar name

+ Reputation.

etk
05-07-2007, 07:14 PM
+ Reputation.

Dude, you do this in every thread you post in. Your rep doesn't count, don't bother to say "+rep" and don't bother to give the rep in the first place.

Oh wait, if that was the case you would have 100% homer-only posts. Nevermind, continue post whoring and looking like an idiot.

fenikz
05-07-2007, 07:38 PM
under rated, no

90 of his completions went to Steven Jackson(not hard to throw a ball 10 yards)
93 of his completions went to Torry Holt(now he is under rated)

so over half of his completions are because of them, and Bruce & Curtis aren't to shabby of 3rd and 4th options, i'm not buying into the product of the system thing but he could & should be putting up top 3 numbers

Shiver
05-07-2007, 07:42 PM
I think Bulger is a good QB, but people say he's underrated so much, that its not really even true anymore.


He is a product of the system to an extent, and he has a GREAT supporting cast. I dont see him leading drives to win games or anything like that either (although I admittedly dont watch the Rams every week)


If I had to rank him among QBs, I would probably put him somewhere from 9 to 11

I want to see your actual 1-12 QB rankings, just for my edification.

Neo
05-07-2007, 07:46 PM
If McNabb isnt in your top five you are cleary insane... talk about injuries etc... when healthy to claim bulger is half the player McNabb is, is quite clearly lunacy.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 08:03 PM
Who has played the most recent full season. No if healthy, gimme Bulger on my team to lead my team for a complete season.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 08:03 PM
If McNabb isnt in your top five you are cleary insane... talk about injuries etc... when healthy to claim bulger is half the player McNabb is, is quite clearly lunacy.

Even when healthy, McNabb is only slightly better. Secondly, whenever you preface a statement with the "when healthy" line, it already defeats your argument. The "when healthy" line is an admission that missing time is a significant issue with your aforementioned player. When your starting QB is missing significant time, that is certainly a significant factor in grading.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 08:05 PM
Exactly, Shiver thank you! I made a thread pertaining to the phrase if healthy in the off topic last week. If healthy nulls and voids any argument.

fenikz
05-07-2007, 08:08 PM
here is where i'd rank him

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Carson Palmer
4. Drew Brees
5. Mark Bulger
6. Phillip Rivers
7. Brett Favre

etk
05-07-2007, 08:11 PM
You don't rank any position based on talent alone, and that's what the "injury" line promotes. Players are ranked based on performance and other factors. If a player cannot stay healthy he shouldn't be a highly valued player and his rank status should reflect that. "If he was on the field" is the same as saying "If he reached his potential". If that's how people want to treat rankings I will come out and say it: Michael Vick is the best QB in football.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 08:26 PM
here is where i'd rank him

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Carson Palmer
4. Drew Brees
5. Mark Bulger
6. Phillip Rivers
7. Brett Favre
Favre has no business being that high. You'd rather have Favre than McNabb? I would take McNabb for 10 games than Favre for 16. People that still have Favre ranked that high are either doing it sentimentally or they don't watch him play.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 08:34 PM
Favre is in the middle tier of Qb's if we were gonna split it up into 3rds.

HawkeyeFan
05-07-2007, 08:45 PM
GRF lets see your Top 8.

This thread really has no point, but yes he is underrated.

Phrost
05-07-2007, 08:49 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning


Finally someone with some sense.

661rep
05-07-2007, 08:55 PM
Finally someone with some sense.

Bulger would be in my top 10 obviously and I really don't think you could consider him underated anymore and if he is its because he hasn't led the Rams to the playoffs in the last two years.. I had a chat with a Ram fan not to long ago and he was trying to tell me Bulger was the 2nd best QB in the league after Manning... and that Bulger was much better then Brady. To each his own I guess

fenikz
05-07-2007, 08:56 PM
this is getting off topic, but if you throw in all the intangibles that are Bret Favre he is still a top tier QB

great arm, tough as nails, team leader, excellent in the clutch.

the only negative is he is a risk taker, which is kinda a BS negative

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:06 PM
I want to see your actual 1-12 QB rankings, just for my edification.

1. Peyton Manning- obviously Manning and Brady are 1 and 2

2. Tom Brady- see above

3. Drew Brees- I give him the edge over Palmer. Palmer didnt seem quite as good this season.

4. Carson Palmer- one of the best

5. Donovan Mcnabb- when healthy..... If you include injuries as a factor, he's off this list. Cause an injury prone QB is not a good thing at all.

6. Big Ben Roethlisberger- this guy is good, yet very underrated. I am considering last year a fluke due to the motorcycle accident. He has been great 2/3 years in the league.

7. Marc Bulger- He's a little higher up on my list then I thought now that I am actually making a list.

8. Eli Manning- He is incredibly underrated. Modern day king of the 4th quarter comeback (if only the Defense could hold up....)

9. Matt Hasselbeck- he had a down year, but he has been consistently good for a while, and I cant toss him aside yet

10. Phil Rivers- first year starting, so I am hesitant to put him on here. has a great supporting cast as well. People should take a wait and see approach before crowning his ass...

11. Jay Cutler- he's a rookie, so like Rivers I am hesitant, but I cant see him being anything less then a solid NFL QB, so he makes the cut

12. Mike Vick- He's not a good passer, but he's a damn good runner. He hasnt lived up to potential, and if he doesnt in the next couple years never will, but he's decent enough and the running ability gives him something a little different then other QBs.

Honorable Mention- James Chadwick Pennington- this guy is accurate as hell. just needs to stay healthy.

Vince Young, Chadwick Pennington,, Mike Vick, Jay Cutler

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:09 PM
Eli Manning 8th...give me a break.

HawkeyeFan
05-07-2007, 09:10 PM
Ok. So he went from 9 - 11 in your opinion to 7th. Wow, not only is Eli Manning inconsistent on the field but your very inconsistent on your opinions!

Oh, and sorry but Roethlisberger is not better than Bulger.


Oh yea also, Eli isn't better than Rivers, Pennington or Hasselchoke.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:12 PM
Ok. So he went from 9 - 11 in your opinion to 7th. Wow, not only is Eli Manning inconsistent on the field but your very inconsistent on your opinions!

Oh, and sorry but Roethlisberger is not better than Bulger.


Oh yea also, Eli isn't better than Rivers, Pennington or Hasselchoke.
Eli isn't better than Rex Grossman or J.P Losman. If you didn't know where Eli was drafted there's no way you could make a case for him in the top 10, none.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:12 PM
1. Peyton Manning- obviously Manning and Brady are 1 and 2

2. Tom Brady- see above

3. Drew Brees- I give him the edge over Palmer. Palmer didnt seem quite as good this season.

4. Carson Palmer- one of the best

5. Donovan Mcnabb- when healthy..... If you include injuries as a factor, he's off this list. Cause an injury prone QB is not a good thing at all.

6. Big Ben Roethlisberger- this guy is good, yet very underrated. I am considering last year a fluke due to the motorcycle accident. He has been great 2/3 years in the league.

7. Marc Bulger- He's a little higher up on my list then I thought now that I am actually making a list.

8. Eli Manning- He is incredibly underrated. Modern day king of the 4th quarter comeback (if only the Defense could hold up....)

9. Matt Hasselbeck- he had a down year, but he has been consistently good for a while, and I cant toss him aside yet

10. Phil Rivers- first year starting, so I am hesitant to put him on here. has a great supporting cast as well. People should take a wait and see approach before crowning his ass...

11. Jay Cutler- he's a rookie, so like Rivers I am hesitant, but I cant see him being anything less then a solid NFL QB, so he makes the cut

12. Mike Vick- He's not a good passer, but he's a damn good runner. He hasnt lived up to potential, and if he doesnt in the next couple years never will, but he's decent enough and the running ability gives him something a little different then other QBs.

Honorable Mention- James Chadwick Pennington- this guy is accurate as hell. just needs to stay healthy.

Vince Young, Chadwick Pennington,, Mike Vick, Jay Cutler

No comment.

HawkeyeFan
05-07-2007, 09:14 PM
Eli isn't better than Rex Grossman or J.P Losman. If you didn't know where Eli was drafted there's no way you could make a case for him in the top 10, none.
Yea true. OR Byron Leftwich, Tony Romo, Trent Green, or Delhome.

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:17 PM
No comment.

its his name..... what is there to not comment about....



And Eli is a top 10 QB imo. people asked me to post my opinions, so i did so.

Scotty D
05-07-2007, 09:18 PM
Bulger will be starting for the Lions next year.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 09:19 PM
And Eli is a top 10 QB imo. people asked me to post my opinions, so i did so.

An opinion that is contrary to the evidence will always draw an adverse reaction.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:22 PM
its his name..... what is there to not comment about....



And Eli is a top 10 QB imo. people asked me to post my opinions, so i did so.

Should I call every Ed, Edward? Every Jim, James? Every Bill, William? Every Bob, Robert?

The "no comment" is for the ridiculously exasperating headcase that you are. Or should I say, 20 year old playa. Mmmhm.

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:26 PM
An opinion that is contrary to the evidence will always draw an adverse reaction.

thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....

ricky bobby
05-07-2007, 09:28 PM
thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....
Give it up GRF. I'm a huge Eli fan, but he clearly isn't a top 10 QB until he proves that he can be consistant all season long. I've fought this battle before, you'll never win. There are way more Eli haters than Eli fans.

HawkeyeFan
05-07-2007, 09:29 PM
Ooh! 24 Touchdowns! Wow, and 18 interceptions with a 77% Passer Rating, he's great!.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 09:29 PM
This thread has nothing to do with Eli Manning. If you want to rant, go elsewhere. (hint; you know, maybe the Eli Manning thread?)

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:30 PM
thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....

What kind of intangibles, pray tell?

HawkeyeFan
05-07-2007, 09:32 PM
Ok. Also, even when Bulger had 22 interceptions in 2003, he had a 81.4 rating, much better than that 77 rating of Manning.

Xonraider
05-07-2007, 09:32 PM
And Eli is a top 10 QB imo. people asked me to post my opinions, so i did so.

I think he is barely Top-15.. people in this board seem too hate him too much.

Xonraider
05-07-2007, 09:33 PM
Ok. Also, even when Bulger had 22 interceptions in 2003, he had a 81.4 rating, much better than that 77 rating of Manning.

The rating is a horrible way to measure QBs.

Wootylicous
05-07-2007, 09:33 PM
thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....

How many INT'S did he have last season ? (Hawkeye Fan beat me to it)

Eli is not a top 10 QB in the NFL right now that's it

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:34 PM
The rating is a horrible way to measure QBs.

"Horrible"? How? It combines relevant stats into an easy, comparable number. Is that why it's horrible?

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:35 PM
thats why he's 4th in TD passes...

Its not even stats. its the intangibles more then anything. Give me a list of the top 15 or so QBs and see how many are legitimately better then Eli....
Intangibles are the worst part of Eli's game. He shows no leadership, he has no pocket presence, he's a *****, and he generally locks up in the clutch. His stats actually make him look better than he really is. As for your list.

People definately better:
1)Peyton
2)Brady
3)Palmer
4)Brees
5)Bulger
6)McNabb
7)Big Ben
8)Cutler
9)Hasselbeck
10)Vick
11)Pennington
12)Philip Rivers

People probably better:
13)Tony Romo
14)J.P Losman
15)Vince Young

People at about Eli's level:
16)Damon Huard
17)Steve McNair
18)Brett Favre
19)Rex Grossman
20)Alex Smith
21)Byron Leftwich

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:37 PM
I think he is. He's more of a game changer then most of the QB's you guys mentioned. I watch him week in, week out. and I am telling you that theres something about the guy. I see the guy come through and put us in a position to win games a hell of a lot....

Im done with this topic and dont need to be baited into continuing this topic. I said my piece, and thats it. agree/disagree i dont really care.....

Shiver
05-07-2007, 09:37 PM
"Horrible"? How? It combines relevant stats into an easy, comparable number. Is that why it's horrible?

Any statistical formula is horrible, when used as the sole evaluating factor. Unless you think David Carr was a better QB last year than Tom Brady was. Even the NFL when they set up the system, stated this:

It is important to remember that the system is used to rate pass-ers, not quarterbacks. Statistics do not reflect leadership, play-calling, and other intangible factors that go into making a successful professional quarterback.

NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/981202qbrate.html)

So they never intended the Passer Rating as the primary way to quantify the Quarterback position.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 09:37 PM
Wheres the Eli Manning Forum?

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:38 PM
This thread has nothing to do with Eli Manning. If you want to rant, go elsewhere. (hint; you know, maybe the Eli Manning thread?)
This thread really has no point either way.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:39 PM
I think he is. He's more of a game changer then most of the QB's you guys mentioned. I watch him week in, week out. and I am telling you that theres something about the guy. I see the guy come through and put us in a position to win games a hell of a lot....

Im done with this topic and dont need to be baited into continuing this topic. I said my piece, and thats it. agree/disagree i dont really care.....
The something about him is the fact that you're a Giants fan.

And yes, he's a game changer, he helps the Giants lose games.

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:40 PM
Intangibles are the worst part of Eli's game. He shows no leadership, he has no pocket presence, he's a *****, and he generally locks up in the clutch. His stats actually make him look better than he really is. As for your list.

People definately better:
1)Peyton
2)Brady
3)Palmer
4)Brees
5)Bulger
6)McNabb
7)Big Ben
8)Cutler
9)Hasselbeck
10)Vick
11)Pennington
12)Philip Rivers

People probably better:
13)Tony Romo
14)J.P Losman
15)Vince Young

People at about Eli's level:
16)Damon Huard
17)Steve McNair
18)Brett Favre
19)Rex Grossman
20)Alex Smith
21)Byron Leftwich

the difference in my list and yours being that your apparently ready and willing to crown peoples asses after 1 good season....

and thats it. Eli's demeanor is one of a calm, cool and collected individual. Its his personality. There are enough vocal guys on this team, and Eli is the guy who calms everyone down and leads IN THE HUDDLE NOT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.


and i cant even believe that you said Eli locks up in the clutch... you obviously dont watch much Giants cause that is far and away his strong point. And it has something to do with the calm demeanor that you are bashing him for.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:41 PM
Any statistical formula is horrible, when used as the sole evaluating factor. Unless you think David Carr was a better QB last year than Tom Brady was. Even the NFL when they set up the system, stated this:



NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/news/981202qbrate.html)

So they never intended the Passer Rating as the primary way to quantify the Quarterback position.

In that case, I guess I would just like Xonraider to clarify his comment. I don't think it should be the sole evaluating factor. My question then is if that's what Xonraider meant.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:43 PM
the difference in my list and yours being that your apparently ready and willing to crown peoples asses after 1 good season....

and thats it. Eli's demeanor is one of a calm, cool and collected individual. Its his personality. There are enough vocal guys on this team, and Eli is the guy who calms everyone down and leads IN THE HUDDLE NOT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.


and i cant even believe that you said Eli locks up in the clutch... you obviously dont watch much Giants cause that is far and away his strong point. And it has something to do with the calm demeanor that you are bashing him for.
Yes, I would take a player with one good season over a player that has yet to have a good season. Color me crazy.

kalbears13
05-07-2007, 09:43 PM
10 Reasons Marc Bulger is Underrated
1) He wasn't drafted early so didn't get a lot of spotlight (6th round)
2) Hasn't won a Super Bowl (Peyton Manning & Big Ben)
3) Hasn't won 3 Super Bowls (Tom Brady and the circus)
4) Hasn't really won in the playoffs
5) Hasn't fumbled a snap and costed the team the playoffs (Tony Romo)
6) Didn't lead a team who was 3-13 the year before to NFC Championship game (Drew Brees)
7) Doesn't do anything special. (No cannon arm or Chevrolegs)
8) Came in for Kurt Warner who was a total stud. Wasn't anything more special. It went from a 10 to an 8. People might have seen it as a downgrade even though he is still really good.
9) Hasn't established himself by playing for a gazillion years (Brett Favre)
10) He plays in the NFC.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:44 PM
the difference in my list and yours being that your apparently ready and willing to crown peoples asses after 1 good season....

And you're ready and willing to crown Eli Manning's after 0 good seasons.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 09:44 PM
My personal rankings:

Tier 1 Players that can perform on a MVP level


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Drew Brees


Tier 2 Players that are very good, and they help their team's play at a higher level


Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Matt Hasselbeck


Tier 3 Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive


Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Michael Vick
Chad Pennington
Ben Roethlisberger


Tier 4 They have the potential to advance, but aren't there yet


Eli Manning
JP Losman
Vince Young
Alex Smith
Byron Leftwich
Rex Grossman
Jay Cutler

nfrillman
05-07-2007, 09:45 PM
Okay, the person who said that Bulger isn't underrated because he is not matching what Warner did with the Rams is a fool. Yes, how dare Bulger not be able to duplicate the greatest three year stretch for a QB ever sans Manning 2003-present. Oh, and before you comment back with something questioning my statement about Warner's three year stretch, do some research and look at the stats.

As for Eli being a top 10 QB, that is assanine. How can a guy that was outplayed by Jon Kitna be a top 10 QB. Eli had a 77.0 QB rating, good for 18th in the league last year. How bout the year before last? A rating of 75.9, 23rd in the league, behind Plummer, Brad Johnson, Brunell, Warner (yes the very one he replaced even though the Giants were 4-3 at the time and winning the division), Holcomb, Bledsoe, Simms, Collins, and Dilfer. Yes, Eli is truly amazing.

Manning/Brady
Palmer
Bulger
Brees
McNabb
Then I think there is a significant drop-off to the next group that contains the Hasselbecks, Romos, Rivers, and Losmans of the world, and Manning is towards the bottom of this tier.

kalbears13
05-07-2007, 09:46 PM
I think Vince Young should be in the Tier 3 because he is the definition of "Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more than otherwise they are productive"

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:47 PM
I think Vince Young should be in the Tier 3 because he is the definition of "Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more than otherwise they are productive"

I think you're taking Shiver's line a bit too strictly. He thinks that Vince Young is a fourth tier QB.

Am I correct?

etk
05-07-2007, 09:47 PM
Bruce Gradkowski is the best QB in the league. I just can't put my fingertips on why it's so, but it just is what it is. He's the best in the game, there's just something about the guy. He's so calm and cool on the field, his demeanor says it all. I just watch him week in/week out and think "wow, he's unstoppable". The only reason Brucey isn't well-liked is because of that calm demeanor. Everyone just hates calm people. Did I mention he has very dark, tan skin? I know I shouldn't crown his ass after one good season, but he is just special, you wouldn't understand.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:47 PM
Okay, the person who said that Bulger isn't underrated because he is not matching what Warner did with the Rams is a fool. Yes, how dare Bulger not be able to duplicate the greatest three year stretch for a QB ever sans Manning 2003-present. Oh, and before you comment back with something questioning my statement about Warner's three year stretch, do some research and look at the stats.
I never said he wasn't underated, but that has certainly held him back, and to act like it hasn't is what is foolish.

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:49 PM
My personal rankings:

Tier 1 Players that can perform on a MVP level


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Drew Brees


Tier 2 Players that are very good, and they help their team's play at a higher level


Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Matt Hasselbeck


Tier 3 Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive


Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Michael Vick
Chad Pennington
Ben Roethlisberger


Tier 4 They have the potential to advance, but aren't there yet


Eli Manning
JP Losman
Vince Young
Alex Smith
Byron Leftwich
Rex Grossman
Jay Cutler


Thats a fair assessment I suppose.... But does anyone actually think that any of the guys you listed with Eli are better then him (minus rookies who are kind of an unknown)? I have him a "tier" up from you and its apparently a huge deal to this board....

Wootylicous
05-07-2007, 09:50 PM
Im done with this topic and dont need to be baited into continuing this topic. I said my piece, and thats it. agree/disagree i dont really care.....

(10 characters)

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:52 PM
Thats a fair assessment I suppose.... But does anyone actually think that any of the guys you listed with Eli are better then him (minus rookies who are kind of an unknown)? I have him a "tier" up from you and its apparently a huge deal to this board....

Yes, pretty much everyone.

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 09:53 PM
Yes, pretty much everyone.

how about anyone whos not a flamboyant Bears groupie?

Shiver
05-07-2007, 09:53 PM
I think you're taking Shiver's line a bit too strictly. He thinks that Vince Young is a fourth tier QB.

Am I correct?

Vince Young needs to improve before I raise him to tier-3.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 09:54 PM
how about anyone whos not a flamboyant Bears groupie?

JP Losman, maybe Jay Culter and Vince Young, and I could see an argument for Leftwich.

etk
05-07-2007, 09:55 PM
how about anyone whos not a flamboyant Bears groupie?

The only player on that list that might be worse than Manning is Grossman. They are both very erratic and inconsistent but Grossman is more of a winner so I'd take him.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 09:56 PM
how about anyone whos not a flamboyant Bears groupie?
I'm not falmboyant, I'm actually pretty demure. This is flamboyant:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/sheino/sparkplugged/posts/chg2.jpg

Xonraider
05-07-2007, 09:57 PM
In that case, I guess I would just like Xonraider to clarify his comment. I don't think it should be the sole evaluating factor. My question then is if that's what Xonraider meant.

I thought your argument was that because his Rating was better Bulger was automatically a better QB. I was saying that it is not something that should be a big factor when defining QBs.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 09:57 PM
John Beck is already more successful than Eli.

etk
05-07-2007, 09:58 PM
Eli's demeanor is one of a calm, cool and collected individual. Its his personality. There are enough vocal guys on this team, and Eli is the guy who calms everyone down and leads IN THE HUDDLE NOT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA.




http://www.gatorcountry.org/wearetheboys/images/eli_drunk.jpg

He's a great calm leader in front of the camera as well, GRF.

cunningham06
05-07-2007, 09:59 PM
Thats a fair assessment I suppose.... But does anyone actually think that any of the guys you listed with Eli are better then him (minus rookies who are kind of an unknown)? I have him a "tier" up from you and its apparently a huge deal to this board....

Vince, Losman, and Alex Smith. Oh yea Cutler too.

GiantRutgersFan
05-07-2007, 10:02 PM
http://www.gatorcountry.org/wearetheboys/images/eli_drunk.jpg

He's a great calm leader in front of the camera as well, GRF.

he's also with a chick who's hotter then any girl you would ever get....

Wootylicous
05-07-2007, 10:03 PM
he's also with a chick who's hotter then any girl you would ever get....

that is seriously the worst insult i've ever seen of my life...

etk
05-07-2007, 10:05 PM
he's also with a chick who's hotter then any girl you would ever get....

I only dream of looking as purdy as Eli Manning. Don't you just love those gorgeous little eye-squints he does in his pregame warm-up? I think I might even have jaw surgery to model after Eli's beautiful face.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:05 PM
GRF is so godly

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:06 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/peter_king/11/21/mailbag/p1_manning_eli_si.jpg

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:07 PM
http://www.oddjack.com/wp-content/manning_joke.jpg

cunningham06
05-07-2007, 10:08 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/peter_king/11/21/mailbag/p1_manning_eli_si.jpg

I can just hear a spoiled Paris Hilton esque voice saying "Oh no you didn't!" in the background for this picture.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:10 PM
http://misunderestimation.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/EliSack.jpg

Shiver
05-07-2007, 10:11 PM
Alright, seriously, the Eli Manning pictures thing has been done to death lately.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:12 PM
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I37685-2004Dec05

the [blank] artist?

dirk cannot answer this question

Wootylicous
05-07-2007, 10:12 PM
http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2004-12/15439110.jpg

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:12 PM
ok ill stop sorry, Shiver.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 10:13 PM
Eli Manning should be on The View, letting out his emotions about Tom Coughlin and his boyfriend GRF.

bored of education
05-07-2007, 10:14 PM
The Giants trade Eli Manning and a future 1st round draft pick to the View for Barbara Walters

Shiver
05-07-2007, 10:15 PM
Let's get this back on topic. You know, Marc Bulger.

The Unseen
05-07-2007, 10:16 PM
Let's get this back on topic. You know, Marc Bulger.

Who's Marc Bulger?

49ersfan_87
05-07-2007, 10:16 PM
The Giants trade Eli Manning and a future 1st round drat pick to the View for Barbara Walters

Quit post whoring. Your becoming even more annoying than GRF.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 10:19 PM
This is getting annoying regardless. Now I know why njx has become so jaded.

bearsfan_51
05-07-2007, 10:23 PM
This is getting annoying regardless. Now I know why njx has become so jaded.
You act as if there was ever a time when he wasn't jaded.

Shiver
05-07-2007, 10:26 PM
I'd like to think so.

niel89
05-07-2007, 10:51 PM
maybe as a boy....

niel89
05-07-2007, 10:52 PM
Who's Marc Bulger?

a famed pornstar for the RAMS

kalbears13
05-07-2007, 10:55 PM
a famed pornstar for the RAMS

Dang! I was gonna say the exact same thing.

PACKmanN
05-07-2007, 11:08 PM
wheres yodachu when u need him? he the only one that can settle this.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 12:41 AM
The only player on that list that might be worse than Manning is Grossman. They are both very erratic and inconsistent but Grossman is more of a winner so I'd take him.

Yeah, there isn't a lot that separates Grossman, Losman, Manning, Smith. The only reason Michael Vick is considered to be above them is he is every bit as erratic a passer, except he has Barry Sanders like elusiveness to somewhat make up for it. There is a cluster of "talented, but...." Quarterbacks.

CC.SD
05-08-2007, 01:00 AM
Eli going number 1 in 2004 is going to be like Keyshawn going number 1 in 1996. Yeah, serviceable career, but ultimately there were a lot better options at the position.

What? This is a Bulger thread?

Shiver
05-08-2007, 01:04 AM
Eli going number 1 in 2004 is going to be like Keyshawn going number 1 in 1996. Yeah, serviceable career, but ultimately there were a lot better options at the position.

What? This is a Bulger thread?

Funny isn't it?

awfullyquiet
05-08-2007, 05:03 AM
eight cents.
divided four ways

1) Marc Bulger is underrated. Really. The man's never thrown below 50% completion rating in his life. So he dumps it to Jackson for 10 yards. big deal. that's 10 yards. i'm sure you could dump it to a tight end or reciever, but, hey, they're plan is to sent holt and bruce deeper and it opens up jackson on the inside.

2) i'm actually really perturbed that number 4 isn't on the 'tier'ed list. favre is better than eli. period. shiver. shame on you for nixing him over huard. 56% comp, 18/18 ratio. 3900 yards? Eh. and he has yet to miss a game? Injury line? He's one of the best leaders on the field, and i'd take him now over quite a few of the listed players. and stats aren't everything (if they were, we'd have kitna included in this conversation, but he's more just a byproduct of the system than a good quarterback...)

3) i am saying this: healthy quarterback = good quarterback. its their job to run the offense, lead the offense, and throw the G-D ball. if they're not healthy, they go the way of culpepper. who in some regards may be a good quarterback, but can't really stand on two feet anymore. when he's healthy is the lamest excuse. and christ, if i had a nickle for every time i heard... 'when grossman is healthy...' i'd have probably enough for a decent bottle of bordeaux.

4) as my last 2 cents come in. not under the same standard shiver put it under. but, as general groupings of skill qb ranks: 1) Manning/Brady/Brees/Palmer 2) Farve/Bulger/Hassleback 3) Pennington/Vick/Ben 4) McNabb/Rivers/Grossman/Losman/Smith 5) Romo/Cutler/Leftwich 6) Delhomme/Manning2/VY. Great recievers pad stats all the time. Great systems pad stats all the time.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 07:26 AM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/peter_king/11/21/mailbag/p1_manning_eli_si.jpg

This was probably taken after Plax gave up on a catchable TD pass.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 07:26 AM
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I37685-2004Dec05

the [blank] artist?

dirk cannot answer this question

Dunno the point of this picture. I hope a penalty was called on that play because it certainly is one.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 07:29 AM
My personal rankings:

Tier 1 Players that can perform on a MVP level


Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Drew Brees


Tier 2 Players that are very good, and they help their team's play at a higher level


Marc Bulger
Donovan McNabb
Matt Hasselbeck


Tier 3 Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive


Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Michael Vick
Chad Pennington
Ben Roethlisberger


Tier 4 They have the potential to advance, but aren't there yet


Eli Manning
JP Losman
Vince Young
Alex Smith
Byron Leftwich
Rex Grossman
Jay Cutler


"Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive"

I have a problem with that and some of the players you list under there. How many games has Romo started. How can you say more oftehn than not he is productive. Same thing for Vick. I didn't know two out of 6 seasons in the NFL makes him more often than not productive. Ben is also coming off a horrible season. A season where they didn't dumb down the offense for him the first time of his career. He certainly has the physical tools but we'll see if his brain holds him back another year.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 09:53 AM
"Players that are either unproven, or inconsistent, but more often than not they are productive"

I didn't exactly write up the tiers throughly. I basically just typed it up, on the fly.

How many games has Romo started. How can you say more oftehn than not he is productive.

You're right, I should have him in tier-4.

Same thing for Vick. I didn't know two out of 6 seasons in the NFL makes him more often than not productive.

Accumulative stats aren't the best way to judge Michael Vick. Usually about 3/4 of the time he is not that bad of a passer. He just manages to stink up the joint a few games a year, which ruins his stats. He is basically Rex Grossman, with wheels.

Ben is also coming off a horrible season. A season where they didn't dumb down the offense for him the first time of his career. He certainly has the physical tools but we'll see if his brain holds him back another year.

Well, I know you aren't exactly a proponent of Ben Roethlisberger.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 10:00 AM
I know stats don't judge Vick the best either so I like to go by wins with him a bit. He didn't really perform there as well. It seems like it is every other year with him.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 10:02 AM
Don't get me started on judging a QB on W-L. That's one of my pet peeves.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 10:03 AM
Don't get me started on judging a QB on W-L. That's one of my pet peeves.

I know its a team sport. But people say you can't judge Vick on stats because he just flat out wins games for his team. So if you can't judge him on stats and his team isn't winning, I can't consider him productive.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 11:28 AM
That's an old excuse, that originated back in '04. In actuality, defense, special teams, easy schedule contributed as much as Michael Vick did.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 12:02 PM
I'd love to hear Vick's new excuse. He seems to have an endless amount of them. And they come in all forms. Excuses on the field and excuses pertaining to the law.

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 12:51 PM
Eli Manning and Michael Vick have the ability to sneak into any thread any time they want.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 01:01 PM
Because Marc Bulger isn't controversial enough. He needs to beat up a stripper, and become infinitely more interesting to discuss.

awfullyquiet
05-08-2007, 02:01 PM
Because Marc Bulger isn't controversial enough. He needs to beat up a stripper, and become infinitely more interesting to discuss.

or magically also start dating paris hilton...

...while in jail.

</lame>

tom
05-08-2007, 02:57 PM
most under rated QB Ben Roethlisberger
most under rated RB Willie Parker
most under rated FB Dan Kreider
most under rated TE Heath Miller
most under rated WR Hines Ward
most under rated band QUEEN
most under rated fruit Tomato
most under rated colour Bordeaux
most under rated rated under The Undertaker!

bsaza2358
05-08-2007, 03:02 PM
Well, I can agree with 3 of the last 4...

PACKmanN
05-08-2007, 03:27 PM
why does every thread not related to Vick or Eli turn into a Vick/Eli bashing fest???

bored of education
05-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Who is Marc Bulger?

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 03:40 PM
Who is Marc Bulger?
Who cares?

Change the title of this thread to Eli Manning vs. Michael Vick.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 03:50 PM
Who cares?

Change the title of this thread to Eli Manning vs. Michael Vick.

Already been done. It was the greatest thread ever; never will there be another to defame its legacy. It was before your time, and BBD's as well.

Jughead10
05-08-2007, 03:51 PM
The greatest thread ever, never will there be another to defame its legacy.

There was a big one about Terrence Newman that came close.

etk
05-08-2007, 03:51 PM
The greatest thread ever, never will there be another to defame its legacy.

Now that you're a Mod can you make a thread under that title and Sticky it for the whole season? That would be legendary......

Phrost
05-08-2007, 04:25 PM
Eli Manning > Michael Vick > Chris Simms

Michael Vick is a runningback.


Fixed

Phrost
05-08-2007, 04:33 PM
Because Marc Bulger isn't controversial enough. He needs to beat up a stripper, and become infinitely more interesting to discuss.

Maybe he needs to refer to Jeff Wilkins as the idiot kicker...

Shiver
05-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Eli Manning > Michael Vick > Chris Simms

Michael Vick is a runningback.


Fixed


http://www.orlyowl.com/ohnoes.jpg

Phrost
05-08-2007, 05:22 PM
http://www.orlyowl.com/ohnoes.jpg

Jeff Garcia>Eli Manning>Michael Vick

http://www.orlyowl.com/ohnoes.jpg

Shiver
05-08-2007, 05:24 PM
Get your own ORLY owl!

The Unseen
05-08-2007, 05:41 PM
Get your own ORLY owl!

http://www.orlyowl.com/rutrippin.jpg

SFbear
05-08-2007, 05:53 PM
Marc Bulger is so underrated that he doesn't even get talked about in a thread dedicated to him.

Flyboy
05-08-2007, 05:59 PM
Marc Bulger is so underrated that he doesn't even get talked about in a thread dedicated to him.

... ... Who?

NGSeiler
05-08-2007, 09:12 PM
Marc Bulger is so underrated that he doesn't even get talked about in a thread dedicated to him.

Sounds about right, well played.

Stash
05-08-2007, 09:35 PM
Just because a guy isn't talked about in these kind of conversations doesn't mean he's underrated. Everyone who ranked QB's had him in the top 5-10 which is pretty accurate. I think his QB skills are rated just fine, he just plays in a small market and keeps a low profile.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 09:57 PM
christ, i'm getting indigestion just thinking about that. mostly because i know there will be at least 5-6 more of those threads this summer.

That was the most fired up I've gotten on this forum, hands down. That thread infuriated me like none since.

cunningham06
05-08-2007, 10:04 PM
Jeff Garcia>Eli Manning>Michael Vick

http://www.orlyowl.com/ohnoes.jpg

Jeff Garcia is so overrated, he was playing in an offense that was perfect for him that he was very familiar with in Philly, and had a great line in front of him. I will be surprised if he could achieve half that success in Tampa Bay if he gets any starts.

etk
05-08-2007, 10:46 PM
Chris Simms>all

Michael Vick is a runningback.


Fixed

Your hate for Chris Simms disgraces Bucs fans and all football fans alike.

yodabear
05-08-2007, 10:50 PM
I wanna be the mother of Marc's babies.

CC.SD
05-09-2007, 12:04 AM
Why the hell does no one talk about Alex Smith he is the number 1 overall that has been totally forgotten. Maybe its because he is the only QB in the NFL who eats more Raisin Bland than Marc Bulger.

I'mAHustler
05-09-2007, 06:51 AM
That was the most fired up I've gotten on this forum, hands down. That thread infuriated me like none since.What exactly happened?

Phrost
05-09-2007, 11:32 AM
Your hate for Chris Simms disgraces Bucs fans and all football fans alike.

A moderator did that, not me.

Shiver
05-09-2007, 12:16 PM
What exactly happened?

Eli Manning, alone fires people up. Michael Vick, likewise. Imagine the magnitude of a Eli Manning versus Michael Vick thread.

nfrillman
05-09-2007, 08:57 PM
Marc Bulger is so underrated that he doesn't even get talked about in a thread dedicated to him.

Haha, that is definitely the best line so far.

yodabear
05-09-2007, 09:45 PM
Why the hell does no one talk about Alex Smith he is the number 1 overall that has been totally forgotten. Maybe its because he is the only QB in the NFL who eats more Raisin Bland than Marc Bulger.

Cuz he was the #1 pick, he is supposed to perform.