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smittyjs
12-24-2006, 04:09 PM
Oh don't worry we will beat that punk from Texas' ass silly and we wont throw 34 times and allow 3 defensive touchdowns. Chalk up the win.

Good luck with that. :roll:

We don't need luck :twisted:

You're right, you need actual talent.

What's with you? Why are you saying that we have no chance when we're playing great right now and have won 4 of 5, are at home, and are favored by 4.5? Why are you saying we have no talent when Losman and Evans have looked great, guys like Royal and Reed are stepping up to help them out, McGahhe is still considered amazing around the league, the line is uncountable amounts better, and our pass D has been outstanding? We're on the rise and have had great coaching, so do you just feel like being an ass for no reason or are you just plain stupid?

I'm not being an ass. I never said the Bills were bad, the last post was a joke. I was originally responding to a post saying you would push around and dominate Vince Young. Your Run D is not very good at all and few teams have been able to stop him on the ground. I just don't see you being able to do it. :P VYisaGod, not MLisaGod

Space Ghost
12-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Oh don't worry we will beat that punk from Texas' ass silly and we wont throw 34 times and allow 3 defensive touchdowns. Chalk up the win.

Good luck with that. :roll:

We don't need luck :twisted:

You're right, you need actual talent.

What's with you? Why are you saying that we have no chance when we're playing great right now and have won 4 of 5, are at home, and are favored by 4.5? Why are you saying we have no talent when Losman and Evans have looked great, guys like Royal and Reed are stepping up to help them out, McGahhe is still considered amazing around the league, the line is uncountable amounts better, and our pass D has been outstanding? We're on the rise and have had great coaching, so do you just feel like being an ass for no reason or are you just plain stupid?

I'm not being an ass. I never said the Bills were bad, the last post was a joke. I was originally responding to a post saying you would push around and dominate Vince Young. Your Run D is not very good at all and few teams have been able to stop him on the ground. I just don't see you being able to do it. :P VYisaGod, not MLisaGod

Nah, I think that it is RMisaGod

12-26-2006, 11:48 AM
anyone wanna do a avatar bet on the game this weekend ? loser wears the other teams avatar for a while. :lol:

SuperMcGee
12-26-2006, 06:10 PM
alright guys, almost time to get really into this stuff, so what does everyone think we'll go for in the first round?

- Cornerback - If Nate leaves(most likely that he will), are we in desperate need of a CB? It is often said that cover 2 teams don't take CBs in the first round, but since when do our drafts follow what others think. We haven't seen much of youboty and mcgee isn't a #1. McCauley has been a popular pick but I would love if we could somehow get Hughes in the 2nd round.

- Wide Receiver - I know most of us have been desiring a nice big wideout (Jarrett), but how keen do you think our guys are on taking an offensive skill position here? I'd say Reed has been having his best year in his role but is not a consistent #2, Price has blown, Parrish is a slot guy along with the aformentioned two guys. Royal is not a great receiver still. Evans is great, but he needs the big guy on the other side to help him out and Losman. I'm a huge advocate of this pick but have no idea as to what the organization thinks of doing when it comes to this need as I see it. We came in to this season without any big WR but I have seen over the course of the season that just that would help out our offense a lot. We have several contributors at WR, but no real #2, and I see no reason as why not to pursue one. A big target that can reliably catch is something that I'd love for us to have.

- O-line - I'm not a fan of Preston as a starter and wouldn't mind someone to take his place there as Villarrial is done. I really hope we re-sign Gandy as I've always been a big advocate of him as a guard. Fowler-Gandy-Peters is a nice left side, but I have not been able to see how Pennington has fared due to all the blackouts :x . I keep hearing that he has showed promise and has "not been in over his head", but is he starter material? Our right side lacks starting experience but I have not been impressed by Duke and have seen little of Pennington. Based on position, our choices could be limited to Blalock and Levi Brown depending on who declares. Its not my favorite pick but it wouldn't be awful.
- D-line - Schobel is god, and I think Denney and Kelsay and even Hargrove have put in a rotation nice enough to ward off serious consideration of an early DE selection. Our DT are not good but are young and to an extent untested. Tripplett has disappointed and Williams has been alright. Our first rounder has barely played in the regular season. I don't think they'll be willing to go for another first round DT so soon, but I'd expect some sort of big move to help out this unit. The whole D-line could use some help in the run game, but sadly I doubt a first round talent will not be the answer.

- Linebacker - I've been thinking that this would be a good and sensible pick, but Ellison seems to have really shown the fans and the organization that he could be a starter. There have been a number of reasons to suspect this pick. Spikes has lost a step, Fletcher is getting up there and might not be here next year, and even Crowell just had a season ending injury. Crowell is a starter next year, and Spikes and Ellison could be an interesting scenario if Crowell is still playing WLB. If London is re-signed then I highly highly doubt LB is a first round pick. There are questions of Fletcher and Spikes still, but with Crowell and Ellison providing the youth and ability on the outside and Fletcher still good enough for now in the middle and Spikes still having the fact that he's Takeo Spikes working for him it just wouldn't seem necessary. Depth would still be nice here and a really early pick is still possible to groom under the veterans and take over for London or even possibly Spikes. If London is lost to free agency, then there is the possibility of a shuffle to Crowell on the inside with Spikes and Ellison on the outside. In this situation, however, Crowell would need to adjust, Spikes would still most likely be playing a step behind and Ellison would be an inexperienced full time starter that is still not the greatest player. There would be an immediate need for talented depth and LB is a huge need. If there is no shuffle in this scenario, then we have no worthy starter for the middle and a guy would be needed immediately. I see no real reason as to not re-signing Fletcher, but a few year deal and an early round replacement to groom seems very likely to me.

Its been hard for me to not see most of the past couple of games, and the more I think about what we might do the less sure I am of anything. So toss in what you think and we might just clear something up.

12-26-2006, 07:18 PM
You realize the Cardinals have some of the best raw talent in the league right?

I realize this, but they don't and them not being able to win shows putting you in no position to talk down upon a team better than yours.

So because the Bills are better than the Cardinals I can't say bad things about them? That's just stupid. :roll:

fischbowl
12-26-2006, 11:44 PM
49ersfan_87 wrote:
Is this game going to be blacked out once again?


Yes....

Id like to promote Booty Yoga Ballet as the most ridiculous blackout Paid Programming yet.....................Thank god for 96.9

rocco31fb
12-27-2006, 05:40 PM
anyone wanna do a avatar bet on the game this weekend ? loser wears the other teams avatar for a while. :lol:

I don't really think anyone cares about the outcome of this game.

Rob S
12-27-2006, 07:43 PM
i have been on the patrick willis bandwagon for a while now. I want Fletch back but dont see it happening.

Rob S
12-27-2006, 07:46 PM
and, for the record, I think Spikes will return to form next year with a whole offseason of rest.

rocco31fb
12-27-2006, 08:15 PM
Lindell was signed to a 5 year $10 mil contract today! Great news. Now they should look toward Fletch and Clemments. Bills have a ton of cap space in the off-season to work with, look for them to make a splash in Free Agency.

Space Ghost
12-27-2006, 08:24 PM
Lindell was signed to a 5 year $10 mil contract today! Great news. Now they should look toward Fletch and Clemments. Bills have a ton of cap space in the off-season to work with, look for them to make a splash in Free Agency.

HAH! not likely bro, I wish, but not likely. We are cheap ass mother *******.

fischbowl
12-27-2006, 10:31 PM
HAH! not likely bro, I wish, but not likely. We are cheap ass mother *******.

Indeed, more Kiwaukee Thomas and Matt Morgan escapades are being seen in the future.

Rob S
12-28-2006, 11:38 AM
HAH! not likely bro, I wish, but not likely. We are cheap ass mother *******.

Indeed, more Kiwaukee Thomas and Matt Morgan escapades are being seen in the future.

I think we will see 1 big signing, whether it be Clements, Fletch or someone else. And we have not really been that cheap, just didnt make flashy signings. Schobel and McGee and Peters got big extensions in the past 2 years. Also, Villareal and Tripplett were not small signings by any means.

SuperMcGee
12-28-2006, 01:04 PM
I'm just so happy about Lindell!!

SuperMcGee
12-28-2006, 01:05 PM
HAH! not likely bro, I wish, but not likely. We are cheap ass mother *******.

Indeed, more Kiwaukee Thomas and Matt Morgan escapades are being seen in the future.

God I hate Kiwaukee Thomas. Our CBs are going to be such garbage next year, unless Youboty is something special that we haven't seen

SuperMcGee
12-28-2006, 01:10 PM
One more overlooked signing that I want to get done is Mike Gandy.

I'm reading an article about Rosenhaus wanting to get serious on McGahee extension talks. Nothing significant about the article really, just some between the lines stuff about it going to be expensive

Space Ghost
12-28-2006, 01:16 PM
sign back clements and fletch fo sho, but hopefully not long-term for fletch, maybe a 2 year deal with the option to extend to a 5 year or something. Clements should get a 4 or 5 year deal probably. I really hope we at least pursue Steinbach. I don't really know what our personel like on the offensive line, but I wouldn't mind seeing Leonard Davis starting on the right side of the line next year either. I just want a good offensive line.

Anyways, I am going to start a pledge to send Rian Lindell to the windiest place on the earth to practice kicking in the off season, anyone agree to this idea?

SuperMcGee
12-28-2006, 01:20 PM
I don't really see how you're going to get much better at kicking into the wind coming directly at you. But if it let's us know his range then that'd be nice to avoid the heartbreak of a whole city (everybody in Buffalo knew we wouldn't convert that 4th down)

Rob S
12-28-2006, 03:14 PM
mcgee, could u post the link to that article if you have it. I am surprised they are talking because someone I know who is friends with willis told me that he is leaving unless he is franchised.

SuperMcGee
12-28-2006, 06:30 PM
mcgee, could u post the link to that article if you have it. I am surprised they are talking because someone I know who is friends with willis told me that he is leaving unless he is franchised.

It was in the newspaper, I don't know if I could find it online. It was more Rosenhaus than McGahee, but McGahee is quoted as to saying "I think I'm due. I don't know if the Bills will do something or not. We'll just have to see. What I've done here should speak for itself."
Rosenhaus said he approached the Bills about an extension earlier in the year, and he hopes to get into serious discussion after the season is over.
Yeah, Willis never seemed thrilled to be in Buffalo and I'm not reading too much into anything right now, but who knows.

Rob S
12-29-2006, 09:33 AM
Anyone know where our draft pick is as of now?

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 11:08 AM
I don't think that Fletcher will be back next year, and you can quote me on that. I am even banking on it. I watched a video of him after the Titans game and when asked about the outlook of the future of the team, he said, "I don't know. We'll see." (or something like that)

Personally, I hope that McGahee doesn't get an extension. He talks too much and doesn't produce enough for me. I really think that he would be much more comfortable playing in the south somewhere, probably Miami. I don't think that he ever liked Buffalo.

I am a HUGE advocate of Michael Turner, but its a shame that he is an RFA. Also, the Jets are very interested in him and McGahee isn't a UFA until next year. It's a real shame because he is going to be a player in this league when he starts for sure. Kinda reminiscent of Earl Campbell with more speed. Runs violently and has top end speed. My kind of back.

Iamcanadian
12-29-2006, 11:32 AM
I don't think that Fletcher will be back next year, and you can quote me on that. I am even banking on it. I watched a video of him after the Titans game and when asked about the outlook of the future of the team, he said, "I don't know. We'll see." (or something like that)

Personally, I hope that McGahee doesn't get an extension. He talks too much and doesn't produce enough for me. I really think that he would be much more comfortable playing in the south somewhere, probably Miami. I don't think that he ever liked Buffalo.

I am a HUGE advocate of Michael Turner, but its a shame that he is an RFA. Also, the Jets are very interested in him and McGahee isn't a UFA until next year. It's a real shame because he is going to be a player in this league when he starts for sure. Kinda reminiscent of Earl Campbell with more speed. Runs violently and has top end speed. My kind of back.

That's what everybody thought about Lamont Jordan of Oakland when he was second string behind Martin. It's a whole different story now that he's the feature back. Nothing is for sure about a second stringer.

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 11:46 AM
As far as Clements is concerned - I like him, but not for Champ Bailey $. Clements had a great season for his contract year if you think about it. Horrible start where he didn't seem to be trying too much, then a great end where he really turned it on and people recognized it. Now he will command top corner $ and we shouldn't give it to him IMO.

Another point - thanks Tom Donahoe! Not something I say alot, but thanks for locking up Schobel. I didn't like it at the time, but he has definitely produced and lived up to the money he got.

I don't think we will sign Clements or Fletcher. I hope we pursue Steinbach, Dielman or Locklear instead. I hope we stay away from Leonard Davis. Unlike SM, I do not like Gandy and hope he doesn't come back. I initially didn't like Fowler, but he has played well enough to start next year.

I really only see 3 players on our line who should be starting next year - Peters, Folwer and Pennington. The 2 guard spots can definitely be upgraded. Villareal looks like he is done. Preston is only an adequate starter and would be better slated as a backup. Gandy may or may not be re-signed. Looks like FA/Draft for the guard spots.

Anderson, Tim DT RFA - Hope to God that he isn't resigned but for some reason I could see if he is. Beaten out by a rookie and shouldn't be re-signed. Not resigned.
Clements, Nate CB UFA - Shouldn't be given top corner $. Not resigned.
Davis, Andre WR UFA - Too many WR's and too much $ put into mediocre WR's already (Price and Reed). Not resigned.
Fletcher-Baker, London LB UFA - Really hope he is re-signed, but doesn't seem like he wants to be here anymore. Not resigned.
Gandy, Mike OL UFA - Hope he isn't resigned; I will be forever scarred from that Lions game where HE GAVE UP 4 SACKS IN ONE GAME TO JAMES HALL. Better alternatives in FA and the draft. Not resigned.
Greer, Jabari CB RFA - Like him for cheap. Re-signed.
Hargrove, Anthony DE RFA - Like him alot, he has fit in well here after coming midseason and not even having a full training camp. Re-signed.
Kelsay, Chris DE UFA - Hope he is re-signed. I like him and Denney's rotation and production togehter. Put them together and they combine for 11.5 sacks, which is good for a starting DE. They are basically the same DE and compliment each other nicely. Seems to fit the system. Should be a priority. Re-signed.
Lindell, Rian PK UFA - Already Re-signed!
Preston, Duke OL ERFA - Hope he isn't re-signed for starter $. I just don't think he will every be a consistent starter. Wouldn't mind if he is signed for the minimum or something cheap like that. I would rather give money to him than Gandy, though. Re-signed.
Shelton, Daimon FB UFA - "The Rock" is a great blocker, not a good reciever. Who cares, we don't need him to catch the ball. Re-signed.
Thomas, Anthony RB UFA - A horse who played well in spot duty. I really think that someone will overpay for him as he is a UFA. Not-resigned.
Thomas, Kiwaukee CB UFA - Where are your hands? Not resigned.
Williams, Shaud RB RFA - Hope he isn't resigned. Too small and doesn't have good enough hands to be a 3DRB. Wouldn't mind if he got the minimum. Probably will be cut in camp. Re-signed.
Wire, Coy S UFA - Great special teamer obviously. Could have a future at LB? Re-signed.

My rough line next year:
Peters - FA (Steinbach/Dielman/Locklear) - Fowler - Draft (Blalock)/Preston/Villarreal - Pennington

My early wish list for the offseason:
1. MICHAEL TURNER
2. Eric Steinbach
3. Kris Dielman
4. Sean Locklear
5. London Fletcher
6. Chris Kelsay

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 11:50 AM
I don't think that Fletcher will be back next year, and you can quote me on that. I am even banking on it. I watched a video of him after the Titans game and when asked about the outlook of the future of the team, he said, "I don't know. We'll see." (or something like that)

Personally, I hope that McGahee doesn't get an extension. He talks too much and doesn't produce enough for me. I really think that he would be much more comfortable playing in the south somewhere, probably Miami. I don't think that he ever liked Buffalo.

I am a HUGE advocate of Michael Turner, but its a shame that he is an RFA. Also, the Jets are very interested in him and McGahee isn't a UFA until next year. It's a real shame because he is going to be a player in this league when he starts for sure. Kinda reminiscent of Earl Campbell with more speed. Runs violently and has top end speed. My kind of back.

That's what everybody thought about Lamont Jordan of Oakland when he was second string behind Martin. It's a whole different story now that he's the feature back. Nothing is for sure about a second stringer.

Jordan doesn't even come close to the speed of Turner and doesn't run as violently. Also, Jordan produced last year behind a very mediocre offensive line. This year the line was even worse this year and he still managed to put up respectable stats. That's beside the point though, because you can't say since this happened to one guy, it will happen to another. Turner should be starting in this league. I guarantee that Turner is a Top 10 back in 2 years if he is given the opportunity to start.

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 02:38 PM
Well, with the season coming to an end I guess it is almost time to look ahead to next season now that we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. It has been a good season and this next game means absolutely nothing to either team really. Baltimore has clinched a top three seed and will probably win on sunday and clinch a first round bye. We exceeded my expectations, but only because of a strong second half to the season.

Well, for our offense, JP took large strides this year and played better than everyone in his draft class except maybe Rivers, yet people still aren't writing Eli Manning off who was much much worse than JP and he obviously has a lot more talent around him, just not as good of coaching and offensive leadership. Quarterback is pretty much not even a possibility in this draft unless we want another backup if Holcomb leaves and that will be a late round guy in the sixth or seventh.

We can all agree that Willis McGahee wasn't who we thought he was before last season finally. He doesn't run with autority unless we are playing against the Jets and doesn't look good running up the gut. Running back could be an area that we address on the second day if there is a guy that we think could start for us some day. The A-Train will probably be gone next year because someone will look and notice that he ran for 100 yards in a game for us and offer him too much money, if not I wouldn't mind having him back but I don't think he will be back. Shaud Williams is as good as gone and I don't see Shelton going anywhere.

Lee Evans had the breakout year finally to compliment the finish he had last year. He will be a great deep threat for years to come for us. We all know that we have depth at receiver because all we have after Evans is a bunch of slot receivers. We will drop Davis in the off season probably, even though I want him back to cover punts and kicks next year because he has been very solid on special teams. We will probably see at least 2 receivers gone next year and the problem with that is that the two that will probably be leaving are Aiken and Davis, the two that don't do much at all to jam up our receivers. We need to get rid of Price IMO because with him out of the way we can get Parrish more involved and Reed is more reliable and can do more in space IMO. Price is just a run, catch and fall over guy unless it is a screen pass. We need to bring in a big lanky target for Losman somehow and I would really like Matt Trannon of Michigan State. Unfortunately I don't think we have a shot at him because we traded our fifth rounder for Hargrove. Trannon could also line up as a tight end and create even bigger mis-matches. I think that we might get Jarrett in round one though. Robert Royal is decent, but I don't think we take a tight end in the draft unless Spaeth, Miller or Newton last until the late third round or early fourth where we could trade up to grab one of them.

The offensive line has been better this year and I like what this staff is doing. I prefer the small lineman that they use, but not small to the extent of the Falcons or Broncos where they can't pass block at all. I don't think that we draft an offensive tackle at all in the first four or five rounds this year unless Baker or Long go against what they have said and come out and fall into our laps with Jarrett off the board. I would like to have Gandy back but only if he will accept to be payed like a backup and not start every game, he is much better at guard than tackle. Fowler has been great this year for us. The right side is the conundrum though. Preston and Pennington are both average. Pennington looks to be promising and I hope that we keep him around and give him some chances. Preston however I would like to see as a backup, he isn't starter material and I hope that we get rid of Villariall in the off season because he was horrible all year.

The defensive ends are fine right now and I don't think we draft one at all unless Gaines Adams falls to us in the draft. We essentially drafted an old, NFL ready player in the fifth round when we traded for Anthony Hargrove. Kelsay and Denney combine to be a pretty solid end and are very good, where Schobel is a great pass rusher and isn't as bad against the run as other ends his size.

The tackles are an issue, but they are young so I don't think we will look for any one. Especially because we got Tripplett last year via-free agency. McCargo looks like he will be pretty good and Williams will be a solid every once in a while guy. I really hope we don't see anymore of Tim Andersen though.

Linebackers are all right, the only problem is Fletcher because if we don't sign him we have an awkward situation. We could draft a guy like Buster Davis who is pretty much the same player with younger legs or we could move Crowell into that role and let Ellison and Spiks play outside. I don't see much of a problem either way and if we resign FLetcher, even better, I wouldn't mind trading up a little in round two and grabbing Buster Davis if he escapes round one which is a very likely possibility with a bunch of 34 defenses at the end of round one or cover-2 teams that won't take him, so no one should reach for him in the early twenties and if we trade up in round two we could definitely get him.

Cornerback is the same as linebacker, I really want Clements back after how he has played lately, more so than I want Fletcher back. If we don't bring Nate back we are left with McGee and Youboty, that isn't an ideal situation unless Youboty gets a lot better in the off season. I think that Kiwaukee Thomas is gone but we resign Greer. I would LOVE to have Daymeion Hughes in the second round, but I don't think we can get him unless we take him in round one and the only way we do that is if he runs faster than he is supposed to in workouts.

Safety, no problem, sign Coy Wire back up and thats all. Whitner and Simpson have been great for rookies and we can only expect more from them with age. They are both young too, for rookies.

Special teams, Lindell and Moorman are both back next year. Parrish and McGee as well. If we get Wire under contract our coverage leader is back again next year. April is the man.

I would really like to see us trade down in the draft to around 25 and pick up another third round pick or something. Then we trade our second round pick and acquired third for an earlier second and a fifth. Could be hard to pull off, but very possible, then our draft could look something like this.

1. Daymeion Hughes CB California
2. Buster Davis LB Florida State
3. James Marten OL Boston College
4. Martrez Milner TE Georgia
5. Matt Trannon WR Michigan State
6. Selvin Young RB Texas
7. Lester Ricard QB Tulane

This pretty much sets us up in a great situation next year whether or not we resign Clements and Fletcher or not. It adds a pass catching tight end and a guy who could evolve into an incredible tight-end or slot receiver who is a massive target with some speed. We get a 3DRB and a third QB if Holcomb is gone, also a guy who went to the same school as Losman.

SuperMcGee
12-29-2006, 03:51 PM
Space Ghost, our write-ups seem to agree on pretty much ever single point (with you offering a more in-depth look by addressing all positions, not just big needs, as well as a mock even, so kudos to you).

SuperMcGee
12-29-2006, 04:00 PM
Davis, Andre WR UFA - Too many WR's and too much $ put into mediocre WR's already (Price and Reed). Not resigned.
Fletcher-Baker, London LB UFA - Really hope he is re-signed, but doesn't seem like he wants to be here anymore. Not resigned.
Gandy, Mike OL UFA - Hope he isn't resigned; I will be forever scarred from that Lions game where HE GAVE UP 4 SACKS IN ONE GAME TO JAMES HALL. Better alternatives in FA and the draft. Not resigned.


Andre Davis has been a great gunner for us, but yeah, thats about it

Why do you say Fletcher doesn't want to be here?

And I definitely want to sign Gandy. He gave up 4 sacks out of position. He's a fine guard and I'd rather have him back than worry about replacing him with some mediocre FA or Merz. Preston needs to be replaced first and with the already-slim chance of drafting a starting caliber guard for the right side, there's no chance we get a LG that I'd be comfortable starting with the remaining draft possibilities and our cheap free agency approach. Gandy is near the top of my re-signing list along with our DEs and the best we can do between Fletcher and Clements

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 05:16 PM
Davis, Andre WR UFA - Too many WR's and too much $ put into mediocre WR's already (Price and Reed). Not resigned.
Fletcher-Baker, London LB UFA - Really hope he is re-signed, but doesn't seem like he wants to be here anymore. Not resigned.
Gandy, Mike OL UFA - Hope he isn't resigned; I will be forever scarred from that Lions game where HE GAVE UP 4 SACKS IN ONE GAME TO JAMES HALL. Better alternatives in FA and the draft. Not resigned.


Andre Davis has been a great gunner for us, but yeah, thats about it

Why do you say Fletcher doesn't want to be here?

And I definitely want to sign Gandy. He gave up 4 sacks out of position. He's a fine guard and I'd rather have him back than worry about replacing him with some mediocre FA or Merz. Preston needs to be replaced first and with the already-slim chance of drafting a starting caliber guard for the right side, there's no chance we get a LG that I'd be comfortable starting with the remaining draft possibilities and our cheap free agency approach. Gandy is near the top of my re-signing list along with our DEs and the best we can do between Fletcher and Clements

Go to:
BuffaloBills.com
Then click on Multimedia
Then go to Page 3 of the Videos
Click on "Fletcher and Lindell Postgame Comments"


Then tell me what you think.

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 05:18 PM
I actually like Davis' skill set as a WR more than Reed, but he won't be re-signed because we invested $20 Million in 2 mediocre WR's last season. He has been a great gunner as well.

SuperMcGee
12-29-2006, 05:32 PM
Davis, Andre WR UFA - Too many WR's and too much $ put into mediocre WR's already (Price and Reed). Not resigned.
Fletcher-Baker, London LB UFA - Really hope he is re-signed, but doesn't seem like he wants to be here anymore. Not resigned.
Gandy, Mike OL UFA - Hope he isn't resigned; I will be forever scarred from that Lions game where HE GAVE UP 4 SACKS IN ONE GAME TO JAMES HALL. Better alternatives in FA and the draft. Not resigned.


Andre Davis has been a great gunner for us, but yeah, thats about it

Why do you say Fletcher doesn't want to be here?

And I definitely want to sign Gandy. He gave up 4 sacks out of position. He's a fine guard and I'd rather have him back than worry about replacing him with some mediocre FA or Merz. Preston needs to be replaced first and with the already-slim chance of drafting a starting caliber guard for the right side, there's no chance we get a LG that I'd be comfortable starting with the remaining draft possibilities and our cheap free agency approach. Gandy is near the top of my re-signing list along with our DEs and the best we can do between Fletcher and Clements

Go to:
BuffaloBills.com
Then click on Multimedia
Then go to Page 3 of the Videos
Click on "Fletcher and Lindell Postgame Comments"


Then tell me what you think.

Hasn't convinced me

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 05:34 PM
I actually like Davis' skill set as a WR more than Reed, but he won't be re-signed because we invested $20 in 2 mediocre WR's last season. He has been a great gunner as well.

I like him as a deep threat and that is it, but I really want him back as a special teamer, he is lights out covering punts. I hope we can get him to settle for base salary. I want to get rid of Price more than any other receiver, then after him probably Aiken because Reed is a better Special Teamer than him anyways.

Oh, and that video didn't really convince me of anything Art. I just don't think that we will get Fletcher back for some reason, I think signing Clements will be the larger task at hand and we will want to try and get that done first.

glazeduck
12-29-2006, 05:34 PM
I essentially agree on most points. However, I think Davis should be resigned, he offers us a great deal on special teams and w/ our team so devoted to STs I think we'll keep him around.

Would love to see Fletch resigned and hopefully see Nate tendered because it seems like teams are going to be willing to pay a pretty penny for him. If not, he's not worth breaking the bank for. As for Hughes, I think he'll slip, he doesn't seem like a 1st rounder to me but I guess we'll see. Anderson is a FA so one way or another we'll need to acquire another DT.

I had a slightly different idea as to the draft. Trannon seems like a guy that will go undrafted and really never be any good. Everytime I see him play he looks slow, lazy, and unable to use his body as he should.

Assuming we lose to Baltimore (which I hope we do, just no injuries) that puts us in the 10-15 range. Assuming we get the 13th pick, we could trade down to the 22nd pick and pick up that teams 2nd round pick as well (according to the draft value chart). If this played out (w/out getting picks for Nate) we'd be in good shape to do the following i think...

1. Sidney Rice- something about him excites me more than jarrett.
2a. Josh Beekman- less ?s than Blalock, less salary than Blalock, just as solid (if not moreso)
2b. Hughes/best available CB- lots of cb depth in the draft, good spot to nab one
3. Joe Newton- TEs will fall because of no standouts and similar depth among 6 or 7 of them, i like newton the best.
4. Best available LB- fletch back or not, seems like a good idea to grab a LB for depth
6. Isaiah Stanback? Athletic freak. QB? WR? 6'4 Randall El? I'd pay a 6th round pick to find out w/ him in a Billls uni.
7. Jordan Kent?- Potential out the A$S, hard worker, great guy and seen a lot of improvement in just 1 1/2 yrs of playing football.

Seems like a good draft to me, and fairly realistic. This is without getting picks from Nate (which i really hope we do...imagine a productive draft like this and adding another 1st and 3rd...makes a bills fan drool...)

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 05:54 PM
Wow glazeduck , how did you fit Rice, Beekman, Hughes, Newton and Waters into that, they are pretty much my favourite players at their positions in this draft. Are you watching me right now?

I would LOVE to have Beekman on our line next year, IMO, he is the best interior lineman in this draft, better than Joseph last year as well. He just has that IT that you want in an offensive lineman, he dominates the line all night long. If we got him I would rather he played on the left side beside Peters than on the right side proably.

I would faint if we drafted Sidney Rice, to me, not to everyone else though, he will be the best receiver out of this draft class behind only Calvin Johnson. Turn on your TV he is dominating right now, even if it is pretty bad competition, he would start out against teams number two corners because of Lee Evans. He is the kind of big target we need for Losman to throw it towards. Unfortunately I don't believe he will be coming out this year, but I wouldn't say it is 100 percent yet.

I can't see Nate being tagged again this year, his salary would be more than just giving him a long term contract and no one would want to trade for him probably. Our best plan with Nate is offer him a suitable contract or let him walk and sign with Houston or Washington or some team that will give him big money.

After today's game and wonders I can't see Newton lasting until the third round. He was incredible and scored the game winning touchdown as well as another catch for a score against a solid Mizzoo defense. I would love to have him on the team, but I can't see him lasting thru 2 rounds of the draft.

I don't really know much about Trannon, but if we could get him as an UDFA I would be pumped because we could let him learn and get in shape and you know with our coaching staff they would expect that, I just don't know if they would want to take on such a project like him. He just has incredible size for the position which really jumped out at me.

glazeduck
12-29-2006, 06:17 PM
I agree w/ Rice. He seems like he has a lot better burst and better hands. The guy I really want is Marcus Monk, but I don't even think he's eligible to come out.

As for tagging Nate, we wouldn't have to pay him anything if he signed w/ another team, we'd simply get compensated for him. I don't know that it will happen, maybe its a pipe-dream, but it seems like a better answer than letting him walk for free (I don't consider a future comp pick as of being much worth to us at the moment.)

Newton is tough to gauge, i don't think any of the TEs will be taken w/ the first 40 picks or so, but its tough to tell, they're all so close that it could simply come down to a teams preference as to who falls and who goes, but one thing is certain in my mind and thats that we need to give JP weapons (Robert Royal is NOT a weapon). Newton reminds me of Tony Gonzalez, and I like that. As for Hughes and Waters, those were just gueses, but I agree they'd both be good and I think both have a shot at being available there.

Finally, Kent would be my wish for a project wr, not Trannon. All state High Jumper in HS, still long jumps for an elite track school (until the combine came calling). World class sprinter, legit 6'5" body with basketball athleticism and length. I have a feeling that after the combine though, he'll be a 4th rounder.

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 06:20 PM
What do you guys have against Price?? He has been great for us this year. Also, I watched the Fletcher video again and I am sure that he won't be back. "I don't know, we'll have to see" is not a very convicing statement when asked about the bright future of the team. You guys must at least be less assured that he will stay after that video.

art vandelay
12-29-2006, 06:27 PM
I think that we will be relatively cheap in FA, but we will make one big signing. I do not think the signing will be either Clements or Fletcher. If anything, I think it will be Clements. If I were GM though, I would go after Fletcher instead. I really think that we will end up regretting signing Clements in a few years when we are in cap trouble from his "top corner" contract. I really hope that the signing is on the offensive line somewhere.

glazeduck
12-29-2006, 06:39 PM
What I have against Price is that he doensn't offer anything special, he's short, fastish, has ok hands, but I just described Andre Davis, Josh Reed, Roscoe Parrish, and George Wilson. Honestly, he offers less. Davis offers great special teams play and probably more speed, Reed has better hands and runs better routes, parrish is a great returner, slot wr, and just great w/ the ball in his hands. Price is none of this. We need a redzone threat and w/ Lee double teamed and 8 in the box to stop willis, we need a guy thats better than mediocre w/ some size to keep moving the chains and score tds, somethine else that Price does not offer.

glazeduck
12-29-2006, 06:45 PM
As for free agency, if we can hang onto Gandy, Fletch, and get something in return for Nate, I really don't see much that we have to do. The right side of the OL needs fixing, but one signing and one draft pick can fix that, our depth would be good. I think drafting Beekman and signing Leonard Davis would fix that problem. Wouldn't be suprised to see us go after Max Starks w/ our OL coach being an ex steeler.

Other than the right side of the line... DJ Hackett? Pass rushing DE? Maybe a DT? CB if not addressed in the draft?

Our team has pretty good youth and depth everywhere so I don't really see a need to make a huge splash in Free agency, aside from Davis or Starks perhaps.

Rob S
12-29-2006, 08:25 PM
Marv will not draft a WR in round 1, No way. We will go defense, no doubt in my mind. Also, I love Gandy as a fairly cheap solution to OG, he has been very solid.

SuperMcGee
12-29-2006, 08:47 PM
Marv will not draft a WR in round 1, No way. We will go defense, no doubt in my mind. Also, I love Gandy as a fairly cheap solution to OG, he has been very solid.

Pretty much my thoughts on both points. I have made it very clear that I would love a WR in the first, but also that I doubt it happens.

Rob S
12-29-2006, 09:05 PM
Also, how do we sure up our run D, that is a huge problem for us. I say we need a big ass DT in there to clog it up, I say **** the system, but thats just me. A guy like Branch would look awfully nice in buffalo imo.

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 09:09 PM
Ok, glazeduck, I agree after some revisiting that Kent looks like a much better project than Trannon. He just physically dominates and he doesn't have that laziness like Trannon. Seems like a solid possibility, but a lot of teams will probably look at him in the very late stages of the draft, especially if they are old in the WR position.

I too don't think that round one is the route we will take in finding a receiver to play opposite Evans. That is why I like looking at potential project players in later rounds. I think that we might pull a move and trade a late round pick or two to move down and get more late round picks and pick a few project players for later on that we can hide on our practice squad for 2 years when half our receivers will be gone.

I don't think we will get any big name free agents this year, I don't think Ralph will be able to out bid people well enough. Even with all the cap space we have, everyone else is looking good there as well.

I think our biggest priority this off season is taking steps towards building an offense that can defeat the 34 defense. All three other teams in the division run it now and we run the cover-2. We need an offensive line that can handle that and that is why I think that we could see an offensive guard coming in via the draft on day one, hopefully Josh Beekman or Ben Grubbs in round two. We are already pretty good for defending it with a fast LT in Peters and a quarterback who can escape pressure, but we need some help at guard and I think we will be able to find one long term starter at guard this off season.

I really wouldn't mind not signing any free agents this year because in a few years a lot of teams are going to be in cap hell with all this newly freed up money. Teams are going to be over paying guys and will pay for it down the road. If we draft smart and save this cap space for a couple years, especially once Pennington and Brady are over the hill and Losman is hitting his prime and the Dolphins having no identity at quarterback, we could be a legit super bowl team and win the division very easily in about 3 years and be able to do it for a 3 year span tidly.

After saying that, I would like to add that I would love to see Eric Steinbach in a Bills jersey next year as well as Kris Dielman anchoring our interior line beside Fowler. If those were our only two purchases I would be very excited. A kind of strange scenario I just made up in my head, we could do what the Vikings and Seahawks did last year with Hutchinson and Burleson but we could do it with Clements and Turner instead, the only thing we would have to do is make the Chargers think that they need Nate and the easiest way to do that would be to convince them that Quentin Jammer is a free safety and that Marlon McCree can play strong safety. Very unlikely just thought I would share that for the people who don't want to pay Nate and don't like McGahee long term.

As for where I stand with Peerless Price, I like the guy and all, but he isn't a starting receiver. Reed is just as good and has better hands and can use his body better. If we moved Price into the slot Parrish would prove that he is a better slot receiver with his open field ability. Then we would have him as our fourth receiver doing nothing but earning cash for doing nothing. At least Davis and Aiken add something on special teams. He isn't better than any of the three receivers behind him other than Aiken and he doesn't add something to the team that the other guys can't match or better. They all have something on him wether it is speed, hands, muscle, returning, special teams, etc. He is just there and fills up a 7 man deep receiver position. I didn't even mention Wilson's potential either.

To Rob, I agree that we need a presence in the middle, the thing that I hate about people who say 'won't fit the system' is that they base that on standards and size. Unfortunately with Mr. Branch he meets the requirements in terms of athletic ability and that is all that matters especially in our defense because he also adds 335 pounds of run stuffing ability coupled with defensive end pass rushing ability. He is the perfect fit for a cover-2 nose tackle IMO.

Rob S
12-29-2006, 09:24 PM
Ok, glazeduck, I agree after some revisiting that Kent looks like a much better project than Trannon. He just physically dominates and he doesn't have that laziness like Trannon. Seems like a solid possibility, but a lot of teams will probably look at him in the very late stages of the draft, especially if they are old in the WR position.

I too don't think that round one is the route we will take in finding a receiver to play opposite Evans. That is why I like looking at potential project players in later rounds. I think that we might pull a move and trade a late round pick or two to move down and get more late round picks and pick a few project players for later on that we can hide on our practice squad for 2 years when half our receivers will be gone.

I don't think we will get any big name free agents this year, I don't think Ralph will be able to out bid people well enough. Even with all the cap space we have, everyone else is looking good there as well.

I think our biggest priority this off season is taking steps towards building an offense that can defeat the 34 defense. All three other teams in the division run it now and we run the cover-2. We need an offensive line that can handle that and that is why I think that we could see an offensive guard coming in via the draft on day one, hopefully Josh Beekman or Ben Grubbs in round two. We are already pretty good for defending it with a fast LT in Peters and a quarterback who can escape pressure, but we need some help at guard and I think we will be able to find one long term starter at guard this off season.

I really wouldn't mind not signing any free agents this year because in a few years a lot of teams are going to be in cap hell with all this newly freed up money. Teams are going to be over paying guys and will pay for it down the road. If we draft smart and save this cap space for a couple years, especially once Pennington and Brady are over the hill and Losman is hitting his prime and the Dolphins having no identity at quarterback, we could be a legit super bowl team and win the division very easily in about 3 years and be able to do it for a 3 year span tidly.

After saying that, I would like to add that I would love to see Eric Steinbach in a Bills jersey next year as well as Kris Dielman anchoring our interior line beside Fowler. If those were our only two purchases I would be very excited. A kind of strange scenario I just made up in my head, we could do what the Vikings and Seahawks did last year with Hutchinson and Burleson but we could do it with Clements and Turner instead, the only thing we would have to do is make the Chargers think that they need Nate and the easiest way to do that would be to convince them that Quentin Jammer is a free safety and that Marlon McCree can play strong safety. Very unlikely just thought I would share that for the people who don't want to pay Nate and don't like McGahee long term.

As for where I stand with Peerless Price, I like the guy and all, but he isn't a starting receiver. Reed is just as good and has better hands and can use his body better. If we moved Price into the slot Parrish would prove that he is a better slot receiver with his open field ability. Then we would have him as our fourth receiver doing nothing but earning cash for doing nothing. At least Davis and Aiken add something on special teams. He isn't better than any of the three receivers behind him other than Aiken and he doesn't add something to the team that the other guys can't match or better. They all have something on him wether it is speed, hands, muscle, returning, special teams, etc. He is just there and fills up a 7 man deep receiver position. I didn't even mention Wilson's potential either.

To Rob, I agree that we need a presence in the middle, the thing that I hate about people who say 'won't fit the system' is that they base that on standards and size. Unfortunately with Mr. Branch he meets the requirements in terms of athletic ability and that is all that matters especially in our defense because he also adds 335 pounds of run stuffing ability coupled with defensive end pass rushing ability. He is the perfect fit for a cover-2 nose tackle IMO.

Me too, you will find that many people will disagree though.

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 09:31 PM
He is the perfect fit for a cover-2 nose tackle IMO.

Me too, you will find that many people will disagree though.

Ugh.. I know, I started saying it after the Notre Dame - Michigan game on here in one of my mock drafts and everyone bashed me for it. Bill Belicheck said it best when he said size doesn't matter, it is how they play and how they play into the scheme or something like that. Branch is athletically more gifted than any of the 290 pound defensive tackles in this years draft but he is 6-6 330 so people go bonzai when you say he could play in a cover-2 yet fail to realize that he is faster than most 34 defensive ends and even some 43 defensive ends, I bet he is faster than Ryan Denney. He would solve a lot of our run defense problems, but unfortunately I can't see him falling out of the top 10 or even top 6 or 7 for that matter.

Rob S
12-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Yeah, i cant see him falling either. We can dream though.

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 09:39 PM
Insert Alan Branch

http://www.alaska.net/~sleddog/Resources/Copy%20(4)%20of%20Dreaming.jpg

Rob S
12-29-2006, 10:25 PM
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copy4ofdreamingkw7.jpg

Rob S
12-29-2006, 10:26 PM
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=copy4ofdreamingkw7.jpg

Rob S
12-29-2006, 10:27 PM
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2976/copy4ofdreamingvo8.jpg

Rob S
12-29-2006, 10:28 PM
finally worked

Space Ghost
12-29-2006, 10:30 PM
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2976/copy4ofdreamingvo8.jpg

All night long, baby.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 12:27 AM
I hope to god we don't sign Max Starks, Leonard Davis or Jordan Black. Both are big, unathletic lineman who give up alot of sacks. The OL that I would go after:

1. OG Eric Steinbach (Bengals): 16 Games Started, 3.5 sacks allowed, 4 penalties
2. OG Kris Dielman (Chargers): 15 GS, 2 sacks allowed, 5 penalties
3. OG Jake Scott (Colts) - 16 GS, 2 sacks allowed, 6 penalties, RFA, 5th Round Tender (we'd have to give up our 4th because we have no 5th)
4. OG Derrick Dockery (Redskins): 16 GS, 3 sacks allowed, 7 penalties
5. RT/OG Sean Locklear (Seahawks) - 10 GS, 6.5 sacks allowed, 3 penalties, RFA, 3rd Round Tender

All of these guys are athletic lineman who would come in and start right away. I really think that we could get Jake Scott, who I really like, but we would probably have to give up a mid-rounder for him and we already gave one up for Hargrove, but he is worth it.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 01:03 AM
Very Early Offseason

Not re-signed: Clements, Fletcher, A-Train
Signed: OG Jake Scott (4th Round Comp), OLB Cato June (experience in the Cover 2), DT Cory Redding

Draft:
1) CB Josh Wilson (Maryland)
2) OG Josh Beekman (Boston College)
3) RB Lorenzo Booker (Florida State)
4) Compensation for Jake Scott
5) Traded for Anthony Hargrove
6) CB DeAndre Jackson (Iowa State)
7) DT Conrad Bolston (Maryland)


Backfield: Losman - McGahee - Shelton - Booker (3DRB)
Secondary: McGee - Whitner - Simpson - Wilson (McGee, Wilson, Youboty, Greer, Jackson)
Linebackers: Spikes - Crowell - June (Ellison backup)
O-Line: Peters - Scott - Fowler - Beekman - Pennington

SuperMcGee
12-30-2006, 01:20 AM
Wilson's only chance at the first round is his speed, which is not a reason for us to take him
And why do you want to replace Gandy so much? He's fine at guard, and a 4th round pick sure would be nice to have

glazeduck
12-30-2006, 02:26 AM
couple thoughts on the last few posts...

1. Kris Dielman has been locked up for a very very long time (and at a very reasonable rate I might add)

2. Obviously I'd love Alan Branch. I'd love Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas, Leon Hall, and probably even Brady Quinn and Adrian Peterson, but I don't believe any of those players are realistic to consider where we'll be drafting.

Barring alot of early entries, we'll have our choice of a handful of 2nd round cbs, 2nd rd Olinemen, 2nd rd (or overrated) Dlinemen, a few possible linebackers (not a need if we can reup Fletch), a large group of 2nd-3rd rd TEs, or several 1st rd WRs. Seems like a pretty easy answer to me, but I also agree that we'll probably go DEF, i just don't want us to.

3. I don't understand how we're supposed to not sign any free agents and then turn around and sign the two best guards on the market (one actually isn't)...Steinbach will demand a big payday and he'll get it. While I'd be stoked to get him, I'd be just as happy resigning Gandy, drafting Beekman, and finding a RT.

Alot of people have been saying Ben Grubbs lately, I guess I haven't seen enough of him, but I'm not a fan and would say he's more of a late day 1 pick at best.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 10:14 AM
Wilson's only chance at the first round is his speed, which is not a reason for us to take him
And why do you want to replace Gandy so much? He's fine at guard, and a 4th round pick sure would be nice to have

Dude, no offense, but do you know anything about Josh Wilson? If you watch Wilson, he is so much more than speed. Speed (4.28 40) is like the icing on the cake. He actually has cover skills, is physical and is a great tackler as well. Even though we don't need another one, he is a great returner and special teamer (has blocked a kick this year). He even won the Jim Tatum Award in the ACC for the top student-athlete (3.24 GPA). His downside is that his hands aren't too great (12 PD and only 3 INT's) and he is short. He's basically Antoine Winfield with speed. He also has the confidence and swagger to be a top "shutdown" corner in the NFL. He calls himself "The Truth." They barely threw to his side last night and he still got an INT when they did. He will be a first rounder by the time the draft rolls around.

I want to replace Gandy because he has let up 10.5 sacks this year and simply put is a mediocre o-lineman who should not be starting in the NFL. Why settle for "fine" at guard when you can get a lineman with potential and consistency? In 3 years, Jake Scott has only given up 6 sacks. Even if you subtract that dreadful Lions game from Gandy's resume, he still would have 6.5 sacks in ONE year. I personally have had enough with Donahoe Era players where he brought in cheap fixes of the OL. I'm willing to solidify the line for at least 5 more years if it means giving up a 4th round pick.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 10:19 AM
couple thoughts on the last few posts...

1. Kris Dielman has been locked up for a very very long time (and at a very reasonable rate I might add)

2. Obviously I'd love Alan Branch. I'd love Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams, Joe Thomas, Leon Hall, and probably even Brady Quinn and Adrian Peterson, but I don't believe any of those players are realistic to consider where we'll be drafting.

Barring alot of early entries, we'll have our choice of a handful of 2nd round cbs, 2nd rd Olinemen, 2nd rd (or overrated) Dlinemen, a few possible linebackers (not a need if we can reup Fletch), a large group of 2nd-3rd rd TEs, or several 1st rd WRs. Seems like a pretty easy answer to me, but I also agree that we'll probably go DEF, i just don't want us to.

3. I don't understand how we're supposed to not sign any free agents and then turn around and sign the two best guards on the market (one actually isn't)...Steinbach will demand a big payday and he'll get it. While I'd be stoked to get him, I'd be just as happy resigning Gandy, drafting Beekman, and finding a RT.

Alot of people have been saying Ben Grubbs lately, I guess I haven't seen enough of him, but I'm not a fan and would say he's more of a late day 1 pick at best.

Link? I'm 99.9% sure that he's an unrestricted free agent after this year.

Also, I think that we are set at RT and won't be upgrading it. Pennington has actually played well and will only improve and Butler can back him up. Peters, Folwer and Pennington should remain the starters and we should upgrade both guard positions.

Space Ghost
12-30-2006, 12:30 PM
I don't think we will be able to get 2 new guards for next year. I am more in favor of drafting or signing a right guard and giving Gandy a full year of work at left guard. Then in 2008 we will know wether or not we are going to keep at it with Pennington and wether or not Gandy can play ball. Then we can pick up a guy in rounds 2-4 and pluck them in at left guard or possibly right tackle if Pennington isn't working out.

glazeduck
12-30-2006, 12:42 PM
http://www.chargers.com/team/roster/kris-dielman.htm

"The Chargers think so highly of the former Hoosier that they extended the restricted free agent a first-round tender in 2006 and signed Dielman to a one-year contract in March."

My fault, I thought for sure they'd locked him up w/ a long term extension. Strange because this happened a day or two before they extended Gates, Parker and Phillips long term and they made a big deal about him being the most important extension.

Oh well...guess we do have another target...highly doubt we'll get him though

As far as link requests go...I'd like to see a link of Gandy's performance SINCE being moved to LG...

I've watched every Bills game this year and since the move Gandy seems to have been playing very well at LG, I personally think he, Peters, and Fowler can gel into a fabulous left side, and I also agree about Pennington being decent, I think the front office has enough faith in him to let him keep the job and grow over the offseason and next year.

Space Ghost
12-30-2006, 12:46 PM
How did you watch every Bills game, they all get blacked out, the only reason I saw the last 2 games is because I went to the games.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 01:07 PM
Updated Mock

Rd. 1) WR Jeff "Shark" Samardzjia (Notre Dame) - Amazing body control, size and hands. Great red zone target, which we obviously lack. Not slow by any means, but is a great compliment to Lee Evans' speed. Evans and Shark. Now those are just scary good WR's. Pro Comparison: Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals

Rd. 2) CB Josh "The Truth" Wilson (Maryland) - Shutdown corner with great speed, tackling and return ability. Great student as well. Would compete with Youboty for the #2 CB role. Pro Comparison: Antoine Winfield, Vikings

Rd. 3) RB Lorenzo Booker (Florida State) - Underrated RB who was a top recruit coming out of HS. His skill set is very comprable to Reggie Bush - great hands, speed and jukes. Also, he has never "carried the load" like Reggie never did and sometimes makes too many jukes and loses yards like Reggie has been in the NFL. Going to FSU was probably the worst choice that Booker made, I truly believe that he would have produced much more at a different college. At the very least, Booker would come in as a 3 Down RB. Hopefully, he would prove good enough for the organization to let McGahee walk in FA or at least push McGahee to get better. Pro Comparison: Reggie Bush, Saints (Obviously less talented)

Rd. 4) Compensation for OG Jake Scott

Rd. 5) Traded for DE Anthony Hargrove

Rd. 6) CB DeAndre Jackson (Iowa State) - Has the talent that warrants a first day selection but his injury will drop his stock. A ball hawk cover corner who also is a great kick returner. Had 105 tackles, 18 pass defended, 6 INT's and 4 forced fumbles in 2 years as a starter and was 33rd nationally in returning. As we all know, you can never have enough CB's, and our corps would be young and talented with McGee, Youboty, Wilson, Greer and Jackson. Pro Comparison: Deltha O'Neal, Cincinnati Bengals

Rd. 7) Some depth in TE or LB

glazeduck
12-30-2006, 01:26 PM
Ghost-

I watched all the games because I'm on the West coast and am the manager of a sports bar. Its a good life on sunday :)

Art-

I'd need a gaurantee from Shark that he'd be ok w/ playing football and only football before i picked him anywhere in the 1st day, let alone rd. 1. Where we'll be picking we would have a decent shot at Dwayne Jarrett or Ted Ginn (not a huge fan b/c of his lack of size but he's certainly an explosive playmaker), and should have no problem at having Rice be available (assuming he comes out) so anything less from JS would be...BS

Iamcanadian
12-30-2006, 01:33 PM
Updated Mock

Rd. 1) WR Jeff "Shark" Samardzjia (Notre Dame) - Amazing body control, size and hands. Great red zone target, which we obviously lack. Not slow by any means, but is a great compliment to Lee Evans' speed. Evans and Shark. Now those are just scary good WR's. Pro Comparison: Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals

Rd. 2) CB Josh "The Truth" Wilson (Maryland) - Shutdown corner with great speed, tackling and return ability. Great student as well. Would compete with Youboty for the #2 CB role. Pro Comparison: Antoine Winfield, Vikings

Rd. 3) RB Lorenzo Booker (Florida State) - Underrated RB who was a top recruit coming out of HS. His skill set is very comprable to Reggie Bush - great hands, speed and jukes. Also, he has never "carried the load" like Reggie never did and sometimes makes too many jukes and loses yards like Reggie has been in the NFL. Going to FSU was probably the worst choice that Booker made, I truly believe that he would have produced much more at a different college. At the very least, Booker would come in as a 3 Down RB. Hopefully, he would prove good enough for the organization to let McGahee walk in FA or at least push McGahee to get better. Pro Comparison: Reggie Bush, Saints (Obviously less talented)

Rd. 4) Compensation for OG Jake Scott

Rd. 5) Traded for DE Anthony Hargrove

Rd. 6) CB DeAndre Jackson (Iowa State) - Has the talent that warrants a first day selection but his injury will drop his stock. A ball hawk cover corner who also is a great kick returner. Had 105 tackles, 18 pass defended, 6 INT's and 4 forced fumbles in 2 years as a starter and was 33rd nationally in returning. As we all know, you can never have enough CB's, and our corps would be young and talented with McGee, Youboty, Wilson, Greer and Jackson. Pro Comparison: Deltha O'Neal, Cincinnati Bengals

Rd. 7) Some depth in TE or LB

You'll need to revise this. Samardzija signed a guaranteed 7 million dollar baseball contract. While he has stated that he'd like to play both sports professionally, no GM is going to draft him in round 1 unless he is fully committed to pro football. He could fall all the way to round 3/4.
Because of the huge cap $$$ each team received this season, very few FA's will change hands. It is going to be a very poor year for FA's as many teams are 20 million under the cap.
You also don't pay compensation in the year you sign a FA, you pay that the following year.
I completely agree with you on Booker. Totally under utilized at Florida St.

Space Ghost
12-30-2006, 01:38 PM
Also, I don't think a fourth round pick will cut it for Scott. The Colts know taht he is good and will want to keep him around. Because they don't have a second round pick anymore, they are probably going to give him close to a maximum tender so that if anyone wants to get him they will need to give up a second round pick or something. Just a thought.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 01:55 PM
Also, I don't think a fourth round pick will cut it for Scott. The Colts know taht he is good and will want to keep him around. Because they don't have a second round pick anymore, they are probably going to give him close to a maximum tender so that if anyone wants to get him they will need to give up a second round pick or something. Just a thought.

Maximum tender is a 1st rounder and 3rd rounder. Middle is just a 1st. General is at least the round that they were drafted in. So since we don't have a 5th, we would have to give up a 4th.

Space Ghost
12-30-2006, 01:59 PM
Also, I don't think a fourth round pick will cut it for Scott. The Colts know taht he is good and will want to keep him around. Because they don't have a second round pick anymore, they are probably going to give him close to a maximum tender so that if anyone wants to get him they will need to give up a second round pick or something. Just a thought.

Maximum tender is a 1st rounder and 3rd rounder. Middle is just a 1st. General is at least the round that they were drafted in. So since we don't have a 5th, we would have to give up a 4th.

Why would they give him such a ****** offer though, they are just asking teams to steal him away, they might as well not offer him anything and sign him as a UFA, I think you can do that anyways.

glazeduck
12-30-2006, 02:04 PM
-I think a better comparison for Booker is Michael Turner. As much as I like him I think some team will reach for him in the mid-late 2nd (giants maybe?) due to his performance in the bowl game and a good showing at the combine.

I can promise you that DeAndre Jackson won't fall to the 6th round. 3rd or 4th maybe, but certainly not the 6th.

Space Ghost
12-30-2006, 02:06 PM
-I think a better comparison for Booker is Michael Turner. As much as I like him I think some team will reach for him in the mid-late 2nd (giants maybe?) due to his performance in the bowl game and a good showing at the combine.

I can promise you that DeAndre Jackson won't fall to the 6th round. 3rd or 4th maybe, but certainly not the 6th.

Jackson is an early fourth round guy for me, before the injury he was a potential first rounder and lock for mid day one pretty much, he has excellent size and can make plays in the cover-2 scheme, I think he is the 3-6 best cover-2 corner behind Leon Hall and Daymeion Hughes and maybe Darrelle Revis, Tanard Jackson and Josh Wilson.

12-30-2006, 03:57 PM
does anyone wanna do a sig or avatar bet on the game ?

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 04:15 PM
Also, I don't think a fourth round pick will cut it for Scott. The Colts know taht he is good and will want to keep him around. Because they don't have a second round pick anymore, they are probably going to give him close to a maximum tender so that if anyone wants to get him they will need to give up a second round pick or something. Just a thought.

Maximum tender is a 1st rounder and 3rd rounder. Middle is just a 1st. General is at least the round that they were drafted in. So since we don't have a 5th, we would have to give up a 4th.

Why would they give him such a *********** offer though, they are just asking teams to steal him away, they might as well not offer him anything and sign him as a UFA, I think you can do that anyways.

If the Colts didn't want anyone to get him, they would probably have to offer him the middle tender, which is a 1 year deal worth 1.55 million and the compensation is a 1st Round pick. This is opposed to the general tender 1 year deal worth $712,000 which would require 4th Round compensation from us. Keep in mind that their other starting guard, Ryan Lilja, is an RFA and they drafted 2 OL in last year's draft. Just something to think about.

art vandelay
12-30-2006, 04:25 PM
-I think a better comparison for Booker is Michael Turner. As much as I like him I think some team will reach for him in the mid-late 2nd (giants maybe?) due to his performance in the bowl game and a good showing at the combine.

I can promise you that DeAndre Jackson won't fall to the 6th round. 3rd or 4th maybe, but certainly not the 6th.

Booker is nothing like Michael Turner. They are almost complete opposites. Booker is light and elusive while Turner is powerful and fast. Booker has great hands out of the backfield while on the other hand Turner's hands need some work. Turner also has about 40 pounds on Booker. Booker's running style, strengths and weaknesses are all very similar to Reggie Bush. For Turner, Earl Campbell is a good comparison.

SuperMcGee
12-30-2006, 05:30 PM
Wilson's only chance at the first round is his speed, which is not a reason for us to take him
And why do you want to replace Gandy so much? He's fine at guard, and a 4th round pick sure would be nice to have

Dude, no offense, but do you know anything about Josh Wilson? If you watch Wilson, he is so much more than speed. Speed (4.28 40) is like the icing on the cake. He actually has cover skills, is physical and is a great tackler as well. Even though we don't need another one, he is a great returner and special teamer (has blocked a kick this year). He even won the Jim Tatum Award in the ACC for the top student-athlete (3.24 GPA). His downside is that his hands aren't too great (12 PD and only 3 INT's) and he is short. He's basically Antoine Winfield with speed. He also has the confidence and swagger to be a top "shutdown" corner in the NFL. He calls himself "The Truth." They barely threw to his side last night and he still got an INT when they did. He will be a first rounder by the time the draft rolls around.

I want to replace Gandy because he has let up 10.5 sacks this year and simply put is a mediocre o-lineman who should not be starting in the NFL. Why settle for "fine" at guard when you can get a lineman with potential and consistency? In 3 years, Jake Scott has only given up 6 sacks. Even if you subtract that dreadful Lions game from Gandy's resume, he still would have 6.5 sacks in ONE year. I personally have had enough with Donahoe Era players where he brought in cheap fixes of the OL. I'm willing to solidify the line for at least 5 more years if it means giving up a 4th round pick.

Eh, I wouldn't call Wilson a great tackler, but him in the 2nd in your revised mock seems better to me, if he's there. I just don't want him in the first as much.
And Gandy gave up those sacks out of position. I have no problem with him starting at guard.

Rob S
12-30-2006, 06:05 PM
Gandy is very solid at OG, at LT he sucks, but he is a starting caliber OG.

SuperMcGee
12-31-2006, 12:02 PM
How awesome was the first play of the year

Space Ghost
12-31-2006, 12:20 PM
That play owned.

cooter
12-31-2006, 10:13 PM
If we did cut Price, how much of a salary cap hit would we take?? If I remember correctly, we signed him to a 3 year/10 mill deal right?

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-01-2007, 12:16 AM
Ok, I know its long, but here is my (extended) Buffalo Bills offseason plan:

Our own Players
-Resign Clements: This one is huge. I don't care if we have to overpay. There is no one else out there, and we can't afford to burn our first pick on a CB.
-Try to resign Fletcher to a 2-3 year deal, if he wants a longer one let him walk and Ellison becomes a starter (Crowell to MLB).
-Trade or cut TKO. As much as I hate to say it, I think it is time to move on. IMO he is this years Lawyer Milloy. During our run of dominant defenses he was a key player. However, his injury has really prohibited him. He now has trouble recognizing plays, and is a poor tackler. Additionaly, he is due a HUGE roster bonus in may, I'd rather not take a chance with that one.
-Resign Gandy, he is suitable at guard. Let him fight with Preston for the LG spot.
-Resign Hargrove, Andre Davis, and the other roll players.
-Resign Kelsay if there's no better option (A bigger guy).
-Release Villarial. Injured too often and isn't a dominant runblocker anymore. He's only decent, and I'd rather move on and save some money.
-Resign Lindel: duh
-Let Shelton go
-Cut everett, Ceislak and Royal are both better than him.
-Let Anderson walk
-Cut Kelly Holcomb: no real need for him, save salary. Good luck elsewhere.
-Resign Anthony Thomas

Free Agency
I really don't see us making a lot of big FA moves, but the ones we do make I would like to be huge.
-Sign a big name G: I don't care who it is, but I want a real wuality guard. Not a stop-gap like Reyes, or Anderson, or some of the other guards we've brought in, but a real quality guard. Steinbach tops my list, if we can get him.
-Sign Nick Goings. IMO Nick Goings is one of the most under-rated players in the league. He can play both FB and HB, and is a good player at both positions. He hasn't seen a lot of time at HB do to the revolving door of RB's on the panthers (Williams, Davis, Foster) but whenever he's had to come in due to injury he has been very effective. What I want him more for is FB though. He splits time at FB in carolina with hoover, but goings is a nasty lead blocker who can put people on there backs. He also is a dynamic receiver out of the backfield.
-Sign Grahm or Johnson, TE. Neither of them are amazing blocking TE's, though they are decent, but their specialty is receiving, something we need. Both will not be retained because of Watson and Davis, but both are adequate players. Doesn't matter which one.
-Sign Terdell Sands, DT Oakland. Sands is a high-motor guy with some meet to him. He won't put a ton of presure on the QB, but he is a good run-stuffer who has been stuck behind more popular (notice I didn't say better) players than him in Oakland. He is DEFINETLY an upgrade over Anderson.

Draft
-I'm going to assume we got around a 3rd rounder for Spikes. I then want us to package that pick and our 2nd rounder to move up into the later first round.

-1st Round: Dwayne Jarett; WR USC: A big receiver who can give us some consistancy. Runs solid routes and knows how to get open. Will help out in the redzone and on short yard plays.
-1st RoundB: Paul Posluszny; OLB Penn State: I know a lot of people don't like this pick and would rather have Willis, but this is a player we can get with a WR. Poslunszny we can get in the back end of round one. He also fits our scheme perfectly.
-3rd Round: Ryan Harris; OT ND: A good OT for us as far as his ability to get outside and set up screens and sweeps. He can fight with Pennington (and I'm pretty sure he'll win) for the RT spot.
-4th Round: Drew Tate; QB Iowa: I know a lot of people don't have Tate going until the 5th, but after his bowl game I think he'll raise his stock. Had he been on a good team this year there would be no doubt in my mind he's be a 1st or 2nd round pick. This is more of a pick looking for a long-term back-up, and an inssurance policy, just in case.
-6th and 7th round picks not sure about yet. I'd like to get a DE and center in them though.

Projected 2007 (Dream) Team
QB: Losman, Nall, Tate
RB: McGahee, Thomas, (Goings)
FB: Goings, (Cieslak)
XWR: Jarett, Price
YWR: Evans, Davis
ZWR: Reed, Parrish

TE: Royal, Grahm, Ceislak
LT: Peters, Butler
LG: Gandy, Preston
C: Fowler, (preston), late round center
RG: Steinbach, preston
RT: Ryan Harris, Pennington

LDE: Schobel, Hargrove
DT: Triplett, Williams, Sands, McCargo, (Hargrove)
RDE: Denny, Kelsay/FA
LOLB: Paul Posluszny, Hagan
MLB: Fletcher/Crowell, Digi
ROLB: Crowell/Ellison, Wire, Hagan
CB: Clements, McGee, Youboty, Greer, KThomas
SS: Whitner, Bowen
FS: Simpson, Leonhard

-ST remains the same
-Name in () means its not their actual position.

I know its a reach, but the fact is we can afford it, the only problem is if the players are willing to come to buffalo.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 12:51 AM
Why does everyone hate Price so much? I would MUCH rather have him than Josh Reed. Hell, I'll take George Wilson over Josh Reed. Everytime I watch Reed he drops the ball. I've never seen him make one great catch or move after the catch. One the other hand, that's what I see everytime from Price. Very reliable hands and quick, just not big or physical. Would you really rather have Reed over Price?

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-01-2007, 12:55 AM
Wow, where do I start? Reed hardly drops the ball "everytime you watch," in fact he's had only 3 drops all year, which is well below league average. Reed hasn't had drop problems in quite a few years.

Price has some explosion, but is VERY inconsistant. He runs poor routes and struggles to get open. He is only good as a deep fly runner when the other guy is double teamed.

Reed, for 3 years now, has lead our team in 1st down completions. He runs amazing routes, and is our best blocking wide receiver. Also, how can you say he makes no moves after the catch? He's been given the name the human pinball by his team-mates because of the way he bounces of defenders. Do you not remember the Ne game last year? He is a good receiver for YAC.

Albeit, Price is a better #2 option than Reed, but Reed is by far the better slot option. Price is not good ennough to be a solid #2, which is why I say we draft a big WR who price can alternate with.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 12:58 AM
After watching the Marv Levy show yesterday, I am absolutely positive that we will sign or draft a big-name, big boy DT. Marv kept saying that our #1 problem was stopping the run. If Branch enters and somehow falls to the 12th pick, there is no doubt in my mind that we will take him. Also, don't overlook Amobi Okoye either. Remember, Whitner was a projected mid to late 1st rounder when we took him with the 8th pick. I personally would be very happy with either Branch or Okoye.

Thoughts?

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-01-2007, 01:04 AM
I don't think we will take a DT in the first round. We just drafted McCargo in the first round last year, and its usualy a general rule you don't take the same position two years in a row. We have 3/4 DT's we need for our rotation, now all we need is a 4th one to replace anderson and rotated with Williams, someone who can stop the run.

As I pointed out, I really like Sands from Oakland. He is a big guy who can excell in stopping the run, but hasn't gotten a lot of recognition because he's been (unfairly) stuck behind warren sapp. Additionaly he's a high-motor guy who never takes a play off and gets to the ball. He would be the perfect fit, making our DT rotation Triplett/McCargo and Williams/Sands.

I have to say our problems stopping the run are just as much the LB's(specificly spikes) as the DT's. As much as I hate to say it this team can't move forward with spikes on the team. He isn't physical anymore, struggles in recognition, and lacks big-play ability. Drafting Poz would really help. A core of Poz-Crowell-Ellison or Poz-Fletcher-Crowell would be very impressive.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 01:20 AM
Cutting Holcomb would be idiotic, he only has 1 year left and is a great backup. Losman, Holcomb and Nall makes our QB rotation set and we have too many needs to cut a QB and then draft another. Also, what's so special about Drew Tate? Please don't try comparing him to Drew Brees either like others have. Tate obviously has passion for the game but in my mind is no more than a "gamer" and is too short and unskilled for the NFL. I would be suprised if he even got drafted. I would even take Ken Dorsey over Tate.

Signing Clements hurts our team more than it helps us. He has come out and said that he deserves Champ Bailey type money (7 years, $63 million) and we simply cannot afford that. Plus, Clements is NOT CONSISTENT. We all know this. We just cannot give him that kind of money. We can find a suitable, albeit not better, alternative in the draft or FA. Josh Wilson in the 2nd would be ideal.

Not sure why you want another blocking TE. Royal is a blocking TE. We need a playmaker at TE and Daniel Graham is not that. Who's Johnson?

Obviously, I disagree with re-signing Gandy and I think a team will overpay for the A-Train. I agree with letting Tim Anderson go. If we re-sign him, I will seriously wonder what Marv is doing. I still don't understand why he invested 20 million in 2 medicore WR's last year. That still bothers me. Releasing Villareal is a good move but why not re-sign Shelton? You would put Goings at FB? Ehh...

I would like to know what kind of bonus TKO is owed. If it was a ridiculous amount of money I would agree to part ways but I think that we should retain him because we are already thin at LB and I am almost positive that Fletcher won't be back. Terdell Sands? Ehhh more of a NT for a 3-4 in my mind. Check out Cory Redding of Detroit.

I'm not high on Jarrett or Poz, I actually think both will have disappointing careers and are overrated as prospects. Can you explain how Poz fits the Cover 2? Because I really don't think he does. I'm not enamored with Jarrett. He had one great game against a weak Notre Dame secondary and has actually been terribly inconsistent all season for USC. He really has had alot of drops. His amazing 1 handed catch really put him back on the map because his stock was dropping for a long time. He doesn't live up to his measurables like Calvin Johnson does. I really see Mike Williams in him - inconsistent hands and slow.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 01:26 AM
I don't think we will take a DT in the first round. We just drafted McCargo in the first round last year, and its usualy a general rule you don't take the same position two years in a row. We have 3/4 DT's we need for our rotation, now all we need is a 4th one to replace anderson and rotated with Williams, someone who can stop the run.

As I pointed out, I really like Sands from Oakland. He is a big guy who can excell in stopping the run, but hasn't gotten a lot of recognition because he's been (unfairly) stuck behind warren sapp. Additionaly he's a high-motor guy who never takes a play off and gets to the ball. He would be the perfect fit, making our DT rotation Triplett/McCargo and Williams/Sands.

I have to say our problems stopping the run are just as much the LB's(specificly spikes) as the DT's. As much as I hate to say it this team can't move forward with spikes on the team. He isn't physical anymore, struggles in recognition, and lacks big-play ability. Drafting Poz would really help. A core of Poz-Crowell-Ellison or Poz-Fletcher-Crowell would be very impressive.

I am not advocating drafting a DT in the 1st but I would not be suprised at all if we did. DT is a very important position in the Tampa 2. Remember, bigger is not always better with DT's. Strength over fat. Sands is huge, but so is Ted Washington. Obviously it's not all muscle. Remember Brodrick Bunkley? Modrak thought he could play NT in our scheme because of his strength and he is under 300 lbs.

Also, those trades you mentioned would never happen and we won't have two 1st round picks this year.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 01:32 AM
Wow, where do I start? Reed hardly drops the ball "everytime you watch," in fact he's had only 3 drops all year, which is well below league average. Reed hasn't had drop problems in quite a few years.

Price has some explosion, but is VERY inconsistant. He runs poor routes and struggles to get open. He is only good as a deep fly runner when the other guy is double teamed.

Reed, for 3 years now, has lead our team in 1st down completions. He runs amazing routes, and is our best blocking wide receiver. Also, how can you say he makes no moves after the catch? He's been given the name the human pinball by his team-mates because of the way he bounces of defenders. Do you not remember the Ne game last year? He is a good receiver for YAC.

Albeit, Price is a better #2 option than Reed, but Reed is by far the better slot option. Price is not good ennough to be a solid #2, which is why I say we draft a big WR who price can alternate with.

You've made some good points, I won't argue, but I'll just say this: I would take Price over Reed anyday. Neither are great WR's, and they should probably both be slot WR's in the NFL. Again, I am just so mad that we invested $20 Million in both of these guys because we have Roscoe Parrish as a slot WR. It's a shame we are paying our 4th WR that much money. Plus, every fan wants a posession guy so that would bump a $10 million WR to the 5th spot on the roster! That is absurd. Behind that we have very good recievers too - namely Andre Davis, Sam Aiken and George Wilson. It's such a strange situation that I think we will look for a playmaker and red zone target at the TE position and keep Evans, Price and Reed as our top 3 for next year, even though I don't condone it. Neither Price or Reed have played poorly enough to be cut this year so it will be an interesting offseason at the WR position for sure.

pysseddoph
01-01-2007, 04:15 PM
WOW ....
thats about all i can say about these last 3 posts.
but everyone has their opinion regardless how well worded and wrong they may be.

couple of points ....
chances are nate will be resigned for more than a couple of reasons. marv has mr wilson's ear, marv has stated its more important to retain your own than to go get someone elses. mr wilson wont let snyder sign nate away and washington is the leading spot for nate to go if for no other reason than because its snyder and what he represents. also k. thomas has said he doesnt think he wants to come back to buffalo, he wants to play closer to home which is in georgia. the other reason is the bills are in great shape cap wise and nate is going to get something. there arent many teams in better cap position than the bills so the notion of being too expensive doesnt fly.

the bills and their run defense = out to drafting a dt. ummmm .... no. the bills staff has already stated that it is the linebacking unit that they are going to have to take a real hard look at and reports from the bills inside reporter have stated that dont be surprised if the whole entire unit is revamped. which makes sense considering in the cover 2 the bills run it is the job of the linebackers when it comes to run support. people tend to think of the bears when they want to compare the bills cover 2. think more to the colts because personel wise we match up better with how they try to run it. besides that ... the bills traded back into the 1st round this past draft to get a DT who is a question mark because he went out on ir just as he was getting into the regular rotation.

along with talking about the linebackers ... fletcher is all but gone. hes looking for a finacial payday and a long term contract. fletcher is also upset that the bills didnt offer him an extension last year and his tone in his press conference today suggests that his approach boarders on "when hell freezes over" . the play of tko has to be looked at with the amount of money he actually is going to cost the team then you also have to balance the fact he is coming of an achilles injury and then a hamstring injury but with all that you cant ignore the fact the tko was replaced and outplayed by a 5th round rookie. tko was taken out of the game in obvious passing situations because he was a liability. linebackers in this bills cover 2 ar required to be able to pass defend.

this thing of drafting a receiver with the 1st rd pick .... i dont know. the bills are not looking for a #1 receiver ... they have that, they are in need of a solid #2. free agency or later in the draft should be able to give them that. big tall possession receivers have a strong tendancy to be boom or bust. not many inbetween. charles rogers , mike williams to name a few. at the same time that would be too much cap tied up into the receiver position with the bills. your still going to have to do something with lee evan's contract come next year because you dont want to get into a bidding war with the one receiver that your qb is on the same page with.

so reading the writting on all the walls .... it seems the bills are pretty much looking to go lb with their 12th pick in this coming draft.

oline? it would be a guard. peters and pennington are pretty much locks to the tackle positions they know the offense and the calls, anybody else would have to beat them out for their jobs. i dont see that happening. audition time was this past offseason with the bills. the bills will spend this ota, minicamp and preseason getting better with their starters ... not trying to see who their starters are going to be.

which brings us to kelly holcomb. with the job being jp's and his alone going into next season as per the coach, gm and the owner .... kelly may be the odd man out. IF it wasnt for the fact nall got hurt he would have been putting pressure on jp for the starting position. the simple fact that nall basically split time with jp those final 2 preseason games pretty much tells me holcomb wont be able to hold off nall for the #2 spot with the bills. holcomb gets paid too much to be 3rd string on this team so holcomb maybe cut.

all of this is my opinion and i could be wrong as well but i take mine from what i see and what i hear coming out of the mouths of the people envolved.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 05:21 PM
WOW ....
thats about all i can say about these last 3 posts.
but everyone has their opinion regardless how well worded and wrong they may be.

couple of points ....
chances are nate will be resigned for more than a couple of reasons. marv has mr wilson's ear, marv has stated its more important to retain your own than to go get someone elses. mr wilson wont let snyder sign nate away and washington is the leading spot for nate to go if for no other reason than because its snyder and what he represents. also k. thomas has said he doesnt think he wants to come back to buffalo, he wants to play closer to home which is in georgia. the other reason is the bills are in great shape cap wise and nate is going to get something. there arent many teams in better cap position than the bills so the notion of being too expensive doesnt fly.

the bills and their run defense = out to drafting a dt. ummmm .... no. the bills staff has already stated that it is the linebacking unit that they are going to have to take a real hard look at and reports from the bills inside reporter have stated that dont be surprised if the whole entire unit is revamped. which makes sense considering in the cover 2 the bills run it is the job of the linebackers when it comes to run support. people tend to think of the bears when they want to compare the bills cover 2. think more to the colts because personel wise we match up better with how they try to run it. besides that ... the bills traded back into the 1st round this past draft to get a DT who is a question mark because he went out on ir just as he was getting into the regular rotation.

along with talking about the linebackers ... fletcher is all but gone. hes looking for a finacial payday and a long term contract. fletcher is also upset that the bills didnt offer him an extension last year and his tone in his press conference today suggests that his approach boarders on "when hell freezes over" . the play of tko has to be looked at with the amount of money he actually is going to cost the team then you also have to balance the fact he is coming of an achilles injury and then a hamstring injury but with all that you cant ignore the fact the tko was replaced and outplayed by a 5th round rookie. tko was taken out of the game in obvious passing situations because he was a liability. linebackers in this bills cover 2 ar required to be able to pass defend.

this thing of drafting a receiver with the 1st rd pick .... i dont know. the bills are not looking for a #1 receiver ... they have that, they are in need of a solid #2. free agency or later in the draft should be able to give them that. big tall possession receivers have a strong tendancy to be boom or bust. not many inbetween. charles rogers , mike williams to name a few. at the same time that would be too much cap tied up into the receiver position with the bills. your still going to have to do something with lee evan's contract come next year because you dont want to get into a bidding war with the one receiver that your qb is on the same page with.

so reading the writting on all the walls .... it seems the bills are pretty much looking to go lb with their 12th pick in this coming draft.

oline? it would be a guard. peters and pennington are pretty much locks to the tackle positions they know the offense and the calls, anybody else would have to beat them out for their jobs. i dont see that happening. audition time was this past offseason with the bills. the bills will spend this ota, minicamp and preseason getting better with their starters ... not trying to see who their starters are going to be.

which brings us to kelly holcomb. with the job being jp's and his alone going into next season as per the coach, gm and the owner .... kelly may be the odd man out. IF it wasnt for the fact nall got hurt he would have been putting pressure on jp for the starting position. the simple fact that nall basically split time with jp those final 2 preseason games pretty much tells me holcomb wont be able to hold off nall for the #2 spot with the bills. holcomb gets paid too much to be 3rd string on this team so holcomb maybe cut.

all of this is my opinion and i could be wrong as well but i take mine from what i see and what i hear coming out of the mouths of the people envolved.

What does that mean?

SuperMcGee
01-01-2007, 05:27 PM
Why does everyone hate Price so much? I would MUCH rather have him than Josh Reed. Hell, I'll take George Wilson over Josh Reed. Everytime I watch Reed he drops the ball. I've never seen him make one great catch or move after the catch. One the other hand, that's what I see everytime from Price. Very reliable hands and quick, just not big or physical. Would you really rather have Reed over Price?

Price does not have very reliable hands, and takes more penalties than he's worth. He's not starting caliber. He's pretty good in the slot, but we have a way better slot guy in Roscoe and even Reed has shown to be better in that role this year (finally).

Rob S
01-01-2007, 05:49 PM
Why does everyone hate Price so much? I would MUCH rather have him than Josh Reed. Hell, I'll take George Wilson over Josh Reed. Everytime I watch Reed he drops the ball. I've never seen him make one great catch or move after the catch. One the other hand, that's what I see everytime from Price. Very reliable hands and quick, just not big or physical. Would you really rather have Reed over Price?

Price does not have very reliable hands, and takes more penalties than he's worth. He's not starting caliber. He's pretty good in the slot, but we have a way better slot guy in Roscoe and even Reed has shown to be better in that role this year (finally).

Our WR are OK. Not the greatest, but decent. Next year, teams will have to focus and Lee, thereby freeing other WR. I just dont see it as a huge need. If Willis finally decided to play like the stud RB we think he can be, then that will help out the passing game as well, so will a good OL. My point is that there are factors other than WR that can be fixed easier that will help our passing game.

SuperMcGee
01-01-2007, 06:03 PM
Why does everyone hate Price so much? I would MUCH rather have him than Josh Reed. Hell, I'll take George Wilson over Josh Reed. Everytime I watch Reed he drops the ball. I've never seen him make one great catch or move after the catch. One the other hand, that's what I see everytime from Price. Very reliable hands and quick, just not big or physical. Would you really rather have Reed over Price?

Price does not have very reliable hands, and takes more penalties than he's worth. He's not starting caliber. He's pretty good in the slot, but we have a way better slot guy in Roscoe and even Reed has shown to be better in that role this year (finally).

Our WR are OK. Not the greatest, but decent. Next year, teams will have to focus and Lee, thereby freeing other WR. I just dont see it as a huge need. If Willis finally decided to play like the stud RB we think he can be, then that will help out the passing game as well, so will a good OL. My point is that there are factors other than WR that can be fixed easier that will help our passing game.

I just want at least one WR that is a different, larger mold then everyone that we have now

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 06:07 PM
How does everyone feel about Lawrence Timmons from Florida State? If you don't know much about him, check out this article: http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110506aaf.html After watching the UCLA game, I remember thinking "this guy is a beast." He is really fast to the ball and seems to be the perfect LB for our scheme. If we really are going to go LB in Round 1, I hope we pick him. He's only 20 and has a world of upside and is pretty well polished anyway. After the combine, I think he will move up into the mid-1st for sure. Willis is obviously going to be a popular pick, but how is he in coverage? He's a really inspiring story and great tackler, but he is 23. I would like either. I really don't like Poz though, he's the one LB I hope we don't pick. Here's how I hope our LB's are next year:

SLB MLB WLB
Timmons - Crowell - TKO/Ellison


If Ellison starts, that would be a really young and talented group of LB's who could start for a long time. Remember, we drafted alot of Juniors and early entrees last year, which I do not think was a coincidence. Marv wants to make this team younger.

SuperMcGee
01-01-2007, 06:14 PM
How does everyone feel about Lawrence Timmons from Florida State? After watching the UCLA game, I remember thinking "this guy is a beast." If we really are going to go LB in Round 1, I hope we pick him. He's only 20 and has a world of upside and is pretty well polished anyway. After the combine, I think he will move up into the mid-1st for sure. Willis is obviously going to be a popular pick, but how is he in coverage? He's a really inspiring story and great tackler, but he is 23. I would like either. I really don't like Poz though, he's the one LB I hope we don't pick. Here's how I hope our LB's are next year:

SLB MLB WLB
Timmons - Crowell - TKO/Ellison


If Ellison starts, that would be a really young and talented group of LB's who could start for a long time. Remember, we drafted alot of Juniors and early entrees last year, which I do not think was a coincidence. Marv wants to make this team younger.

Why not Puz?

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 06:19 PM
How does everyone feel about Lawrence Timmons from Florida State? After watching the UCLA game, I remember thinking "this guy is a beast." If we really are going to go LB in Round 1, I hope we pick him. He's only 20 and has a world of upside and is pretty well polished anyway. After the combine, I think he will move up into the mid-1st for sure. Willis is obviously going to be a popular pick, but how is he in coverage? He's a really inspiring story and great tackler, but he is 23. I would like either. I really don't like Poz though, he's the one LB I hope we don't pick. Here's how I hope our LB's are next year:

SLB MLB WLB
Timmons - Crowell - TKO/Ellison


If Ellison starts, that would be a really young and talented group of LB's who could start for a long time. Remember, we drafted alot of Juniors and early entrees last year, which I do not think was a coincidence. Marv wants to make this team younger.

Why not Puz?

Nothing against Poz, I just like the other two better. Timmons is a phyiscal specimen and a great talent - very similar (but better) player to Ernie Sims of last year. Timmons is bigger and has less concussions. Willis seems like a great person and is great tackler - I am not sure about his coverage though.

I think one of my main concerns with Poz is the lack of success that former Penn State players have encountered in the NFL. Maybe he will break the mold, I don't know. Courtney Brown, Michael Haynes, Anthony Adams and even to some extent - LaVar Arrington - just scare me. I don't know. He would be an ok pick, but not one I would make. I just have a hunch that he will not be as good of a pro as the other two.

Rob S
01-01-2007, 07:01 PM
Why does everyone hate Price so much? I would MUCH rather have him than Josh Reed. Hell, I'll take George Wilson over Josh Reed. Everytime I watch Reed he drops the ball. I've never seen him make one great catch or move after the catch. One the other hand, that's what I see everytime from Price. Very reliable hands and quick, just not big or physical. Would you really rather have Reed over Price?

Price does not have very reliable hands, and takes more penalties than he's worth. He's not starting caliber. He's pretty good in the slot, but we have a way better slot guy in Roscoe and even Reed has shown to be better in that role this year (finally).

Our WR are OK. Not the greatest, but decent. Next year, teams will have to focus and Lee, thereby freeing other WR. I just dont see it as a huge need. If Willis finally decided to play like the stud RB we think he can be, then that will help out the passing game as well, so will a good OL. My point is that there are factors other than WR that can be fixed easier that will help our passing game.

I just want at least one WR that is a different, larger mold then everyone that we have now

I know what you are saying but I dont feel that drafting a WR in the 1st is the answer. They have a high bust rate and often take 3 years to develop, we dont have 3 years. I think that by improving the OL it will help boost the passing game than a 1st round WR, and the OL will help Willis too. Stopping the run is also a huge problem......

Rob S
01-01-2007, 07:04 PM
As for Patrick Willis, I think he is our guy if Fletch goes. Great character guy and can rack up tackles. His coverage isnt great, but it is adequate.

Jguarino24
01-01-2007, 07:18 PM
As for Patrick Willis, I think he is our guy if Fletch goes. Great character guy and can rack up tackles. His coverage isnt great, but it is adequate.



The more and more I start reading and I keep seeing the name Partick Willis. He is real interesting to me. As much as I love Fletcher a young stud middle linebacker would really make me happy. I see alot of people saying that we need WR in the first round. I dont agree. We need to work on our MLB and DE.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 07:56 PM
As for Patrick Willis, I think he is our guy if Fletch goes. Great character guy and can rack up tackles. His coverage isnt great, but it is adequate.



The more and more I start reading and I keep seeing the name Partick Willis. He is real interesting to me. As much as I love Fletcher a young stud middle linebacker would really make me happy. I see alot of people saying that we need WR in the first round. I dont agree. We need to work on our MLB and DE.

DE is fine. With Schobel anchoring one side the rotation of Kelsay/Denney/Hargrove is actually a decent pass rush. DT, LB and CB are problems on defense. On offense - WR, TE, LG, RG, FB, even RB could all use upgrades/adjustments.

Ravens1991
01-01-2007, 08:02 PM
gg

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 08:05 PM
gg

Hell of a defense you guys got over there. You need to work on your red-zone offense though.

Jguarino24
01-01-2007, 09:10 PM
As for Patrick Willis, I think he is our guy if Fletch goes. Great character guy and can rack up tackles. His coverage isnt great, but it is adequate.



The more and more I start reading and I keep seeing the name Partick Willis. He is real interesting to me. As much as I love Fletcher a young stud middle linebacker would really make me happy. I see alot of people saying that we need WR in the first round. I dont agree. We need to work on our MLB and DE.

DE is fine. With Schobel anchoring one side the rotation of Kelsay/Denney/Hargrove is actually a decent pass rush. DT, LB and CB are problems on defense. On offense - WR, TE, LG, RG, FB, even RB could all use upgrades/adjustments.


So saying CB I take it you dont think the bills should offer Clements a new deal?

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 09:58 PM
As for Patrick Willis, I think he is our guy if Fletch goes. Great character guy and can rack up tackles. His coverage isnt great, but it is adequate.



The more and more I start reading and I keep seeing the name Partick Willis. He is real interesting to me. As much as I love Fletcher a young stud middle linebacker would really make me happy. I see alot of people saying that we need WR in the first round. I dont agree. We need to work on our MLB and DE.

DE is fine. With Schobel anchoring one side the rotation of Kelsay/Denney/Hargrove is actually a decent pass rush. DT, LB and CB are problems on defense. On offense - WR, TE, LG, RG, FB, even RB could all use upgrades/adjustments.


So saying CB I take it you dont think the bills should offer Clements a new deal?

We can offer him a deal, but it better not be Champ Bailey-type money. The said thing is though, someone will offer him Champ Bailey money and he will go there. Even if we do sign Clements, we still could use some CB depth. Kiwaukee Thomas hopefully wont be back and pysseddoph said that he wouldn't, which leaves Clements, McGee, Youboty, Greer and room for 1 more.

Rob S
01-01-2007, 11:09 PM
As for Patrick Willis, I think he is our guy if Fletch goes. Great character guy and can rack up tackles. His coverage isnt great, but it is adequate.



The more and more I start reading and I keep seeing the name Partick Willis. He is real interesting to me. As much as I love Fletcher a young stud middle linebacker would really make me happy. I see alot of people saying that we need WR in the first round. I dont agree. We need to work on our MLB and DE.

DE is fine. With Schobel anchoring one side the rotation of Kelsay/Denney/Hargrove is actually a decent pass rush. DT, LB and CB are problems on defense. On offense - WR, TE, LG, RG, FB, even RB could all use upgrades/adjustments.


So saying CB I take it you dont think the bills should offer Clements a new deal?

We can offer him a deal, but it better not be Champ Bailey-type money. The said thing is though, someone will offer him Champ Bailey money and he will go there. Even if we do sign Clements, we still could use some CB depth. Kiwaukee Thomas hopefully wont be back and pysseddoph said that he wouldn't, which leaves Clements, McGee, Youboty, Greer and room for 1 more.

my god they will be disappointed :lol: Lets just hope its not us

Space Ghost
01-01-2007, 11:14 PM
I think that we will resign Nate regardless. Generally, Ralph resigns all of our big name players and isn't cheap there, but when it comes to the free agenct market he is a penny pinching bastard. He doesn't mind shelling out cash to guys already on the team and draftees usually. That is why I can see us resigning Nate to a hefty contract of like 7 years 50-54 Mil. I wouldn't be unhappy with that, really. Especially if he makes around 12 Mil a year early in the contract because we have a lot of cap space right now, so he could get lots of cash while we have room and then gets closer to around 4 Mil at the 6 or 7 year mark. If we paid him 12 Mil on a 7 year 54 Mil contract for the first 3 years in the final 4 years we would only be paying him an average of 4.5 Mil a year and I think that that deal could work out well for both sides. We have the cash now and don't have the talent yet, lock him up to a deal like that maybe. I bet we would have caved to whatever he wanted last year if we knew we would have 30 Mil in cap space.

art vandelay
01-01-2007, 11:29 PM
I think that we will resign Nate regardless. Generally, Ralph resigns all of our big name players and isn't cheap there, but when it comes to the free agenct market he is a penny pinching bastard. He doesn't mind shelling out cash to guys already on the team and draftees usually. That is why I can see us resigning Nate to a hefty contract of like 7 years 50-54 Mil. I wouldn't be unhappy with that, really. Especially if he makes around 12 Mil a year early in the contract because we have a lot of cap space right now, so he could get lots of cash while we have room and then gets closer to around 4 Mil at the 6 or 7 year mark. If we paid him 12 Mil on a 7 year 54 Mil contract for the first 3 years in the final 4 years we would only be paying him an average of 4.5 Mil a year and I think that that deal could work out well for both sides. We have the cash now and don't have the talent yet, lock him up to a deal like that maybe. I bet we would have caved to whatever he wanted last year if we knew we would have 30 Mil in cap space.

Nate is NOT worth $12 mil/year.

Leon Sandcastle
01-01-2007, 11:38 PM
To tell you the truth I don't think we are going to retain Nate Clements or London Fletcher. Both are going to ask for too much money and I think we'll be better served if we build through the draft.

Primary Needs
DT
LB
CB
OG

Secondary Needs
WR
RT
C
RB

Now we'll be picking 12th in the draft and we could be in a great position to address some of our needs.

Alan Branch, Patrick Willis, Marcus McCaulley, Justin Blalock, Dwayne Jarrett could all be available if things fall into place.

One guy that I really like that people have forgotten about is Michael Bush. He was a legitamte 1st rounder at the start of the season but that horrible injury in the first game really killed his stock. He could possibly be had in the 2nd or 3rd round and with McGahee and Rosenhaus already chirping about getting a new deal this is an option that Levy will have to look at.

art vandelay
01-02-2007, 12:27 AM
To tell you the truth I don't think we are going to retain Nate Clements or London Fletcher. Both are going to ask for too much money and I think we'll be better served if we build through the draft.

Primary Needs
DT
LB
CB
OG

Secondary Needs
WR
RT
C
RB

Now we'll be picking 12th in the draft and we could be in a great position to address some of our needs.

Alan Branch, Patrick Willis, Marcus McCaulley, Justin Blalock, Dwayne Jarrett could all be available if things fall into place.

One guy that I really like that people have forgotten about is Michael Bush. He was a legitamte 1st rounder at the start of the season but that horrible injury in the first game really killed his stock. He could possibly be had in the 2nd or 3rd round and with McGahee and Rosenhaus already chirping about getting a new deal this is an option that Levy will have to look at.

I don't see C or RT as a need because we have a starter and then pretty good depth.

C - Fowler > Preston > Merz
RT - Pennington > Butler

I agree that we won't retain either but for different reasons. Clements because of the money and Fletcher because he simply doesn't want to be here anymore.

Jarrett will never become a Bill. First off, he will be taken by Minnesota before us. Second, he is a showoff and that isn't Marv's type of player. Third, we won't draft offense in Round 1.

Willis, Blalock and Branch would be great picks IMO, but I would go with Lawrence Timmons. I don't really like McCauley. As far as Bush goes, he might be granted another year of eligibility and I don't think we will pick another RB coming off a leg injury.

essential
01-02-2007, 02:43 AM
am i the only one who wants greg olsen out of miami? i think this kid could be a stud, and i think we could get him in the 2nd ... possibly even the third. he would be the pass catching TE to royal's blocking. with losman coming around, i think olsen could be a real weapon. i think he has the potential to be mentioned with gates/gonzo/shockey/witten within two years if our offense keeps shaping up under JP.

oslen was cursed with bad QBs at miami and only started for one full year, but had he played more at miami with a good qb, i think he's be a lock first round pick, and the first TE off the board. since he has flown under the radar, i think he'd be a steal in the 2nd.

originally i wanted josh beekman in the 2nd, and he's the only one i'd be happy with over olsen, but if we can sign steinbach, i think olsen in the 2nd could pay off huge this year.

SuperMcGee
01-02-2007, 03:28 PM
Alright, this may have swayed my view on the whole Fletcher re-signing deal

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070102/1045821.asp

"I wasn't happy about having to play this year without having a contract extension," Fletcher said. "I was not happy at all. . . . I was not at all happy about having to be forced to play out my contract when my performance four years prior to that, three years prior to that, two years prior to that, should have merited an extension well before this."

Fletcher clearly thinks that if the Bills were determined to keep him they would have done it before now - either last summer or during the season.

"You've extended other guys, why not extend me?" Fletcher said. The Bills got every bit of value out of the five-year, $17 million contract they gave Fletcher in 2002. He never has missed a game in his nine NFL seasons. He leads the NFL in tackles over the past seven years, according to NFL game day statistics. He has been a team leader on the field and in the locker room since the day he arrived in Buffalo.

He also will be 32 when next season rolls around. He surely will be signing his last major contract when he hits the free-agent market in March. He wants what he believes is fair market value and he wants to win.

"I've always put the team first, and I've always sacrificed myself and things that I've wanted from an individual standpoint and goal-wise to benefit the good of the team," Fletcher said. "But I told [the Bills' management] in this situation, this is the one time I have to be selfish. This is about me, and I have to be selfish with this decision and do what's best for myself and my family. . . . I have to make sure I secure the best future for us beyond the NFL. This is something I have to be selfish about."

art vandelay
01-02-2007, 06:39 PM
Alright, this may have swayed my view on the whole Fletcher re-signing deal

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20070102/1045821.asp

"I wasn't happy about having to play this year without having a contract extension," Fletcher said. "I was not happy at all. . . . I was not at all happy about having to be forced to play out my contract when my performance four years prior to that, three years prior to that, two years prior to that, should have merited an extension well before this."

Fletcher clearly thinks that if the Bills were determined to keep him they would have done it before now - either last summer or during the season.

"You've extended other guys, why not extend me?" Fletcher said. The Bills got every bit of value out of the five-year, $17 million contract they gave Fletcher in 2002. He never has missed a game in his nine NFL seasons. He leads the NFL in tackles over the past seven years, according to NFL game day statistics. He has been a team leader on the field and in the locker room since the day he arrived in Buffalo.

He also will be 32 when next season rolls around. He surely will be signing his last major contract when he hits the free-agent market in March. He wants what he believes is fair market value and he wants to win.

"I've always put the team first, and I've always sacrificed myself and things that I've wanted from an individual standpoint and goal-wise to benefit the good of the team," Fletcher said. "But I told [the Bills' management] in this situation, this is the one time I have to be selfish. This is about me, and I have to be selfish with this decision and do what's best for myself and my family. . . . I have to make sure I secure the best future for us beyond the NFL. This is something I have to be selfish about."

I'm not suprised at all. How could you not see how mad he was in that press conference after the Titans game? I'm happy for London. Puff your chest out this year, you really made the Bills front office look like idiots for not extending you. I totally understand if he goes somewhere else in the offseason.

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-02-2007, 06:44 PM
Now I want fletcher gone more-so than ever. He's acting like a little baby. If you have a contract you're obligated to play through its extent, the team shouldn't have to give you a knew one. See ya Fletcher, and you can take your home-boy spikes with you.

SuperMcGee
01-02-2007, 07:26 PM
I'm as disappointed as anyone by TKO this year, but he wasn't exactly playing healthy, and we sure could use a veteran leader and his presence in the LB core if Fletcher leaves. He might not be the best for the scheme overall, but he can still be a great player and with possibly no MLB, a 6th round OLB that hasnt started a full season, and Crowell coming off a season ending injury, I'd say it'd be smart to keep Spikes around. Yeah, he was upset that Vincent was put on IR and probably will be that Fletcher will most likely be gone. But he's a gamer and I would expect at least somewhat of a rebound for him in a LB core that became suddenly suspect in recent times. We may never extend his contract again but we probably could use him for at least one more year. Then we will have a better idea of our soon to be young LB core and also some tutelage to a possible stud LB that we draft this year

Rob S
01-02-2007, 08:58 PM
I'm as disappointed as anyone by TKO this year, but he wasn't exactly playing healthy, and we sure could use a veteran leader and his presence in the LB core if Fletcher leaves. He might not be the best for the scheme overall, but he can still be a great player and with possibly no MLB, a 6th round OLB that hasnt started a full season, and Crowell coming off a season ending injury, I'd say it'd be smart to keep Spikes around. Yeah, he was upset that Vincent was put on IR and probably will be that Fletcher will most likely be gone. But he's a gamer and I would expect at least somewhat of a rebound for him in a LB core that became suddenly suspect in recent times. We may never extend his contract again but we probably could use him for at least one more year. Then we will have a better idea of our soon to be young LB core and also some tutelage to a possible stud LB that we draft this year

thats what it boils down to for me. Fact is that we cant lose Fletcher and Spikes, that is way too young, especially with young safeties as well. That leaves us inexperienced down the middle. One has to stay and fact is that Spikes has a contract and Fletch does not.....

But, a LB crew of:

Spikes- Patrick Willis- Angelo Crowell looks mighty nice to me.

pysseddoph
01-02-2007, 09:46 PM
I'm as disappointed as anyone by TKO this year, but he wasn't exactly playing healthy, and we sure could use a veteran leader and his presence in the LB core if Fletcher leaves. He might not be the best for the scheme overall, but he can still be a great player and with possibly no MLB, a 6th round OLB that hasnt started a full season, and Crowell coming off a season ending injury, I'd say it'd be smart to keep Spikes around. Yeah, he was upset that Vincent was put on IR and probably will be that Fletcher will most likely be gone. But he's a gamer and I would expect at least somewhat of a rebound for him in a LB core that became suddenly suspect in recent times. We may never extend his contract again but we probably could use him for at least one more year. Then we will have a better idea of our soon to be young LB core and also some tutelage to a possible stud LB that we draft this year

thats what it boils down to for me. Fact is that we cant lose Fletcher and Spikes, that is way too young, especially with young safeties as well. That leaves us inexperienced down the middle. One has to stay and fact is that Spikes has a contract and Fletch does not.....

But, a LB crew of:

Spikes- Patrick Willis- Angelo Crowell looks mighty nice to me.

but how good is experience without ability?

consider fletcher gone. even so .... how many of his many tackles were 6, 7 and 8 yards past the line of scrimmage. fletcher doesnt have the range to cover the area in the middle of the bills defense. fletcher doesnt read and react, he guesses and sometimes hes right but more times hes wrong. i point to the green bay game, fletcher made a great read and jump on the pass he intercepted from bret BUT i felt it was luck, and green bay felt it was luck to because they went back to the very same pass with the very same personel and fletch was 2 steps off the play the next time around.

tko should be gone. his cap numbers do not equate to value play out of him and i dont buy his smoke screen team leadership role. when he came back in the ota's. he said he wasnt going to rush it. he was going to take his time and make sure everything was ok. in preseason ... he said he wasnt going to rush it he was going to take his time. the coaches said you were going to see tko in the preseason ... tko said he wasnt playing til the games counted when regular season started. guess what ... tko played in the last couple of preseason games. regular season starts and tko has a great play on tom brady in the opener then a couple plays later tko is lost for a couple of games due to his hammy ( hmmmm ... looks like somebody was out of shape .... should have either played more in preseason or not come back so soon, but thats my opinion ). tko blows a gasket to all that would hear how wrong the bills were for puting troy on IR after he blew his hammy. he even went as far as to say he should be put on ir too. he suggested the bills had other motives and they were wrong. funny thing is vincent was ok with the whole thing and actually stuck around to help bring the rookies along. tko comes back and is so much a liability to the pass defense he comes out on 3rd downs because the rookie ellison has been playing a better all around game.

now tko was never great in pass coverage when he was in great shape .. the fact that that is something the bills want and expect out of his position says alot when they feel better having a rookie come in during obvious passing situations. injury or not ... tko makes too much money to be a situational player in this defense as a backer.

in my opinion tko didnt know who he was playing for coach wise and front office wise. he tried to dictate things like it was the old front office and staff here, mularkey isnt here anymore. to me tko is just all bark no bite. talks a good game to the media and whoever will listen but actions speak louder than words .... before angelo went out spikes was a spectator during the most important downs of a series. did anybody see that ravens game where he went for almost 7 yards on a piggyback ride ... coudnt bring anderson down. now if the man cant even tackle anymore what good is he.

BUT in tko's defense ... he did after all was said and done after the ravens game .... he stated that he really wasnt 100% during the season and he expects to be better next year after he has had some time to rest. he said from his rehab to when the season started he really hasnt had anytime to rest his body. hmmmmm .... ota's .... he rode a bike, preseason .... he rode a bike .... 1st game of the regular season he got hurt again ... and rode a bike. tko ... ( now pay attention here ) said that he didnt get a chance to learn the defense as well as he should because he missed so much time leading up to the season. hmmmmm ....isnt that like saying its not his fault he missed so much time and then not remember he basically took a voluntary layoff. yeah i know he was coming off injury ... but its kinda funny the bills medical staff said he was cleared to do certain things .... tko ..... rode a bike.

i say let them both go. fletch because he deserves to get paid and tko because he comes across as bigger than the team. you just have to listen. hes a self promotion machine.

art vandelay
01-02-2007, 10:07 PM
I agree with pysseddoph on this one. Let TKO go and let Fletch walk. Neither fit our defense that well anyway. Then maybe, just maybe, we will re-sign Clements with the cap room we save with TKO's salary. I still would be very iffy to give Clements a lot of money simply because of his lack of consistency and focus.

I still say Lawrence Timmons over Patrick Willis. Willis is a better fit in our defense than Fletcher is, but Timmons is the best fit because he is fluid in coverage. Plus, he's only 20 and after the combine he is going to shoot up draft boards due to his incredible measurables. But the difference between him and most "workout warriors" is that he lives up to his measurables and more.

Besides the LB issue, which most if not all agree that we will address in Round 1, we should look at the Willis McGahee and Lee Evans situations. Do you give McGahee a top RB salary? What do you do with him? And for Evans - get him extended ASAP. We CANNOT afford to lose him in FA when his contract expires.

Rob S
01-02-2007, 10:14 PM
I agree with pysseddoph on this one. Let TKO go and let Fletch walk. Neither fit our defense that well anyway. Then maybe, just maybe, we will re-sign Clements with the cap room we save with TKO's salary. I still would be very iffy to give Clements a lot of money simply because of his lack of consistency and focus.

I still say Lawrence Timmons over Patrick Willis. Willis is a better fit in our defense than Fletcher is, but Timmons is the best fit because he is fluid in coverage. Plus, he's only 20 and after the combine he is going to shoot up draft boards due to his incredible measurables. But the difference between him and most "workout warriors" is that he lives up to his measurables and more.

Besides the LB issue, which most if not all agree that we will address in Round 1, we should look at the Willis McGahee and Lee Evans situations. Do you give McGahee a top RB salary? What do you do with him? And for Evans - get him extended ASAP. We CANNOT afford to lose him in FA when his contract expires.

I like Timmons, but i want to keep tko and think he can regain his form, so the need will be at MLB, therefore i go with willis. I really think we will regret letting TKO go if we do.

Rob S
01-02-2007, 10:15 PM
also, does timmons have any character concerns?

rocco31fb
01-02-2007, 10:18 PM
I agree with pysseddoph on this one. Let TKO go and let Fletch walk. Neither fit our defense that well anyway. Then maybe, just maybe, we will re-sign Clements with the cap room we save with TKO's salary. I still would be very iffy to give Clements a lot of money simply because of his lack of consistency and focus.

I still say Lawrence Timmons over Patrick Willis. Willis is a better fit in our defense than Fletcher is, but Timmons is the best fit because he is fluid in coverage. Plus, he's only 20 and after the combine he is going to shoot up draft boards due to his incredible measurables. But the difference between him and most "workout warriors" is that he lives up to his measurables and more.

Besides the LB issue, which most if not all agree that we will address in Round 1, we should look at the Willis McGahee and Lee Evans situations. Do you give McGahee a top RB salary? What do you do with him? And for Evans - get him extended ASAP. We CANNOT afford to lose him in FA when his contract expires.

We wouldn't save that much by cutting TKO, maybe about $1 mil. And since we have around $29-31 mil in cap room, big deal.

As for Clemments, I think we should throw him the money he deserves. He is a little inconsistant, but he has big play ability.

I wouldn't give McGahee the big contract. I would offer him an extension at a mid-range level but nothing more. I think he'll be as good as gone. They need to wrap up Evans as soon as they can. He's worth a good deal of money.

As for the draft, they should draft a LB in Rd 1 and then a RB in the later rounds. Replacing McGahee is important. A-Train isn't the answer although he's good with Jauron. I don't like Posluskny and think he'll drop out of round one. Maybe a Lozenzo Booker on Day 2 could be a steal.

pysseddoph
01-02-2007, 10:18 PM
as time goes by and more thoughts come into the equation. i say you dont give willis an extension .... if you ... you give him another year to prove his self. non exclusive tag him if need be. i say that with the thinking of the 2nd year and rookie backs that have come out and performed in the last 2 years.

guess there is alot of truth to todays rb's being a dime a dozen. 1 thing is for sure. dont allow this training at the u thing every season to go on without some cause in effect. i know ota's are voluntary but if willis expects a committment to him from the bills then its only fare the bills expect the same from him.

hell .... i was one of the ones that was all for willis over travis .... now, im thinking we may have made a hastey wrong choice.

Space Ghost
01-02-2007, 10:40 PM
I really think that Willis McGahee deserves a new contract and chances are that he gets one this off season. 1, he sells more jerseys than any other Bill and that is always a bonus, Jauron is in love with the kid, he is only 25 and was injured late this year, missed some games and was 10 rushing yards short of a thousand. With solid guards he will be able to run up the middle better and we already know he can get it done on the outside.

TKO doesn't need to be released, yet at least. We aren't going to get rid of both him and Fletch in the same off season, that would be way to much change for a young defense to handle IMO. It is one or the other, and what it comes down to is one of them has a contract and one doesn't. TKO was hurt all year along with the fact that achilles injuries take longer than a year to recover from, he should be in top form by mid-season in 2007. If only Timmons stayed in school so we could potentially have him and Patrick Willis. Oh well. Personally I would rather have P-Willie in the middle of our defense. Timmons can be taught, but he won't excell in a cover-2 defense.

I don't see why you wouldn't want Nate back. I didn't say he was worth 12 Million and if you did some math you would realize that that contract adds up to an average of 7.71 Million a year. I could live with him making that kind of money. I was saying that while our defense is young and we have all this cap space we can get away with paying him more of his contract early in the contract so that we don't have to pay him as much when his play goes down after he hits 30. It isn't worth letting him go, we wouldn't be able to find a replacement unless we could sign Peanut Tillman who could be released by the Bears this off season and probably wouldn't mind playing under Jauron.

art vandelay
01-02-2007, 11:03 PM
also, does timmons have any character concerns?

Obviously I don't know the guy personally, but I have been reading up on him and it seems he is a quiet, to himself player off the field who likes to hang out with his teammates. Seems like a respectful guy as well. This article is pretty interesting and is worth a read:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/12/25/a1c_fsu_1225.html

rocco31fb
01-03-2007, 07:46 AM
also, does timmons have any character concerns?

Obviously I don't know the guy personally, but I have been reading up on him and it seems he is a quiet, to himself player off the field who likes to hang out with his teammates. Seems like a respectful guy as well. This article is pretty interesting and is worth a read:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2006/12/25/a1c_fsu_1225.html

Good read, thanks AV.

I wouldn't put it past Marv to "reach" for another guy who he likes. If he really is the cool guy in that article, I can see him being pretty high on the Bills Big Board.

Rob S
01-03-2007, 10:48 AM
Timmons sounds awesome. I just differ with you because I think TKO will be a good player next year. I still prefer willis, but I would be happy with a Timmons pick.

rocco31fb
01-03-2007, 12:44 PM
Timmons sounds awesome. I just differ with you because I think TKO will be a good player next year. I still prefer willis, but I would be happy with a Timmons pick.

I had read somewhere that Crowell could move to MLB...no source but I thought I heard that.

Space Ghost
01-03-2007, 12:46 PM
Timmons sounds awesome. I just differ with you because I think TKO will be a good player next year. I still prefer willis, but I would be happy with a Timmons pick.

I had read somewhere that Crowell could move to MLB...no source but I thought I heard that.

He was drafted as a MLB, pretty sure he played it for the Cav's in college as well.

Rob S
01-03-2007, 12:57 PM
Timmons sounds awesome. I just differ with you because I think TKO will be a good player next year. I still prefer willis, but I would be happy with a Timmons pick.

I had read somewhere that Crowell could move to MLB...no source but I thought I heard that.

He was drafted as a MLB, pretty sure he played it for the Cav's in college as well.

i dont like shifting a young guy right after a great season, especially after a major injury and with him being so young.

Space Ghost
01-03-2007, 01:22 PM
Timmons sounds awesome. I just differ with you because I think TKO will be a good player next year. I still prefer willis, but I would be happy with a Timmons pick.

I had read somewhere that Crowell could move to MLB...no source but I thought I heard that.

He was drafted as a MLB, pretty sure he played it for the Cav's in college as well.

i dont like shifting a young guy right after a great season, especially after a major injury and with him being so young.

I don't think he should switch positions either, I was just saying that he could if we needed him to. He wouldn't be as good inside probably.

art vandelay
01-03-2007, 02:05 PM
He's another article on Timmons and some things I found interesting from it:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/college/seminoles/orl-fbcfsu2306dec23,0,1365042.story?coll=tf-seminoles


He smiles at the contradiction between Timmons' off-field demeanor and his on-field reputation as one of the team's nastiest hitters.

"You get him on the field," he said, "and he just turns it loose, goes crazy on you."

Quarterback Xavier Lee, Timmons' roommate and best friend since the two arrived on campus three years ago, calls it Timmons' "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" persona.


"He ought to be a great senior player, a great leader," defensive coordinator Mickey Andrews said. "He's a guy who never said a word, but if you can get guys to play with the intensity and effort and ability that he has -- what a value to your team, for a young guy to see how you're supposed to play the game."

art vandelay
01-03-2007, 02:08 PM
I could definitely see Crowell moving to MLB if/when Fletcher leaves. Would we really start a rookie at MLB? I truly don't think we would.

Space Ghost
01-03-2007, 02:16 PM
I could definitely see Crowell moving to MLB if/when Fletcher leaves. Would we really start a rookie at MLB? I truly don't think we would.

:lol: We wouldn't start a rookie mlb, how many rookie's started for us this year?

art vandelay
01-03-2007, 02:35 PM
I could definitely see Crowell moving to MLB if/when Fletcher leaves. Would we really start a rookie at MLB? I truly don't think we would.

:lol: We wouldn't start a rookie mlb, how many rookie's started for us this year?

How many rookie LB's started on opening day? That would be 0. Starting a rookie MLB for a team looking to make the playoffs is very, very rare.

Space Ghost
01-03-2007, 03:12 PM
I could definitely see Crowell moving to MLB if/when Fletcher leaves. Would we really start a rookie at MLB? I truly don't think we would.

:lol: We wouldn't start a rookie mlb, how many rookie's started for us this year?

How many rookie LB's started on opening day? That would be 0. Starting a rookie MLB for a team looking to make the playoffs is very, very rare.

Fact is that we started a bunch of rookie's this year and a lot weren't due to injury.

art vandelay
01-03-2007, 03:16 PM
I could definitely see Crowell moving to MLB if/when Fletcher leaves. Would we really start a rookie at MLB? I truly don't think we would.

:lol: We wouldn't start a rookie mlb, how many rookie's started for us this year?

How many rookie LB's started on opening day? That would be 0. Starting a rookie MLB for a team looking to make the playoffs is very, very rare.

Fact is that we started a bunch of rookie's this year and a lot weren't due to injury.

I understand that but I am very sure that we won't start a rookie MLB on opening day unless he has a hell of a camp. I mean a hell of a camp.

Jguarino24
01-03-2007, 03:41 PM
Has Crowell ever played MLB? Why is everyone saying he'd move to another postion...his 2nd postion change in 2 years? I think they'd keep him at OLB and try and get Patrick Willis!!

SuperMcGee
01-03-2007, 03:58 PM
Posluszny's versatility would allow us to experiment at who we'd want to play at MLB if we don't just take Willis.

art vandelay
01-03-2007, 04:27 PM
Has Crowell ever played MLB? Why is everyone saying he'd move to another postion...his 2nd postion change in 2 years? I think they'd keep him at OLB and try and get Patrick Willis!!

He played MLB for 4 years at Virginia.

By second position change what do you mean? Do you mean that when he filled in for Spikes when he got injured he played WILL and then when Spikes came back he played SAM?

art vandelay
01-03-2007, 04:27 PM
Posluszny's versatility would allow us to experiment at who we'd want to play at MLB if we don't just take Willis.

As would Timmons', but the point still is, do you start a rookie MLB?

SuperMcGee
01-03-2007, 04:38 PM
Posluszny's versatility would allow us to experiment at who we'd want to play at MLB if we don't just take Willis.

As would Timmons', but the point still is, do you start a rookie MLB?

Eh. Rookie MLBs have had recent success. If you really want to have Crowell in the middle, then either way our OLB will be a combo of Spikes/Ellison/rookie (Poz or Timmons)

Jguarino24
01-03-2007, 08:15 PM
Has Crowell ever played MLB? Why is everyone saying he'd move to another postion...his 2nd postion change in 2 years? I think they'd keep him at OLB and try and get Patrick Willis!!

He played MLB for 4 years at Virginia.

By second position change what do you mean? Do you mean that when he filled in for Spikes when he got injured he played WILL and then when Spikes came back he played SAM?


I could be wrong but didnt he play Spikes postion last year and then this year he switched sides?

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-03-2007, 08:25 PM
Has Crowell ever played MLB? Why is everyone saying he'd move to another postion...his 2nd postion change in 2 years? I think they'd keep him at OLB and try and get Patrick Willis!!
He's a natural MLB...

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-03-2007, 08:27 PM
Has Crowell ever played MLB? Why is everyone saying he'd move to another postion...his 2nd postion change in 2 years? I think they'd keep him at OLB and try and get Patrick Willis!!

He played MLB for 4 years at Virginia.

By second position change what do you mean? Do you mean that when he filled in for Spikes when he got injured he played WILL and then when Spikes came back he played SAM?


I could be wrong but didnt he play Spikes postion last year and then this year he switched sides?
Lasy year spikes position was the weak side, possey was strong. This year people say spikes is strong, crowell is weak, but I don't put much into it.

If you watch the games they play more by sides than off the offensive package. Crowell/Ellison are the left, Spikes is the right.

Jguarino24
01-03-2007, 09:20 PM
Ok...I knew someone switched postions last year...It ended up being Spikes. sorry for the confusion

Rob S
01-03-2007, 10:59 PM
MLB is actually not that hard for a rookie to play...

drmoyer421
01-04-2007, 04:27 PM
NTERESTING COMMENTS FROM CROWELL: In talking with Angelo Crowell on his way out the door at One Bills Drive, I found his desire to become more of a leader on this team very interesting. He said he was tutored on how to lead by Spikes and Fletcher, and while I respect his desire to lead, I got the feeling from the way he was talking that he didn't expect one or possibly either of them to be here to lead.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, that's just the feeling I got and I could be right or I could be wrong.

This comment was the most intriguing to me when he referred to Spikes and Fletcher and their great leadership abilities.

"I think it’s time for me to break away and become a leader like those guys were. The opportunity has been given to me and I’m going into this offseason with that on my mind."

Someone has given him the opportunity to lead next season?

Very interesting

This was from Chris Brown, the Bills reporter...

very interesting.

Space Ghost
01-04-2007, 05:31 PM
NTERESTING COMMENTS FROM CROWELL: In talking with Angelo Crowell on his way out the door at One Bills Drive, I found his desire to become more of a leader on this team very interesting. He said he was tutored on how to lead by Spikes and Fletcher, and while I respect his desire to lead, I got the feeling from the way he was talking that he didn't expect one or possibly either of them to be here to lead.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, that's just the feeling I got and I could be right or I could be wrong.

This comment was the most intriguing to me when he referred to Spikes and Fletcher and their great leadership abilities.

"I think it’s time for me to break away and become a leader like those guys were. The opportunity has been given to me and I’m going into this offseason with that on my mind."

Someone has given him the opportunity to lead next season?

Very interesting

This was from Chris Brown, the Bills reporter...

very interesting.

Interesting indeed.

Jguarino24
01-04-2007, 05:57 PM
Concerns me that they might get rid of 2 LB's a DE and a CB...this is a team rebuilding and we are losing way to much I think

art vandelay
01-04-2007, 06:43 PM
NTERESTING COMMENTS FROM CROWELL: In talking with Angelo Crowell on his way out the door at One Bills Drive, I found his desire to become more of a leader on this team very interesting. He said he was tutored on how to lead by Spikes and Fletcher, and while I respect his desire to lead, I got the feeling from the way he was talking that he didn't expect one or possibly either of them to be here to lead.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, that's just the feeling I got and I could be right or I could be wrong.

This comment was the most intriguing to me when he referred to Spikes and Fletcher and their great leadership abilities.

"I think it’s time for me to break away and become a leader like those guys were. The opportunity has been given to me and I’m going into this offseason with that on my mind."

Someone has given him the opportunity to lead next season?

Very interesting

This was from Chris Brown, the Bills reporter...

very interesting.

Hell ya, I love to hear stuff like this. He wants to step up and be the leader of our D. How can you not love the guy? He'll be going to a few Pro Bowls in his career if he can regain his form prior to his injury. This is obviously not a given, but I hope that his injury wasn't as serious as Spikes' was.

It is obvious that at least one of them (Fletcher and Spikes) won't be back. I don't think either will be. Crowell is going to be our MLB, I just have a feeling. Then Ellison at WLB and then a rookie (hopefully Timmons) at SLB.

art vandelay
01-04-2007, 06:44 PM
Concerns me that they might get rid of 2 LB's a DE and a CB...this is a team rebuilding and we are losing way to much I think

I think we will lose Fletcher and Spikes, but keep Kelsay and Clements. I wouldn't re-sign Clements, but I think we will.

SuperMcGee
01-04-2007, 09:59 PM
NTERESTING COMMENTS FROM CROWELL: In talking with Angelo Crowell on his way out the door at One Bills Drive, I found his desire to become more of a leader on this team very interesting. He said he was tutored on how to lead by Spikes and Fletcher, and while I respect his desire to lead, I got the feeling from the way he was talking that he didn't expect one or possibly either of them to be here to lead.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, that's just the feeling I got and I could be right or I could be wrong.

This comment was the most intriguing to me when he referred to Spikes and Fletcher and their great leadership abilities.

"I think it’s time for me to break away and become a leader like those guys were. The opportunity has been given to me and I’m going into this offseason with that on my mind."

Someone has given him the opportunity to lead next season?

Very interesting

This was from Chris Brown, the Bills reporter...

very interesting.

Hell ya, I love to hear stuff like this. He wants to step up and be the leader of our D. How can you not love the guy? He'll be going to a few Pro Bowls in his career if he can regain his form prior to his injury. This is obviously not a given, but I hope that his injury wasn't as serious as Spikes' was.

It is obvious that at least one of them (Fletcher and Spikes) won't be back. I don't think either will be. Crowell is going to be our MLB, I just have a feeling. Then Ellison at WLB and then a rookie (hopefully Timmons) at SLB.

Crowell had a broken leg. I'm pretty sure that's easier to come back form than a torn achilles. Plus Spikes had other injuries plaguing him this year as well

pysseddoph
01-05-2007, 08:04 AM
NTERESTING COMMENTS FROM CROWELL: In talking with Angelo Crowell on his way out the door at One Bills Drive, I found his desire to become more of a leader on this team very interesting. He said he was tutored on how to lead by Spikes and Fletcher, and while I respect his desire to lead, I got the feeling from the way he was talking that he didn't expect one or possibly either of them to be here to lead.

I don't want to put words in his mouth, that's just the feeling I got and I could be right or I could be wrong.

This comment was the most intriguing to me when he referred to Spikes and Fletcher and their great leadership abilities.

"I think it’s time for me to break away and become a leader like those guys were. The opportunity has been given to me and I’m going into this offseason with that on my mind."

Someone has given him the opportunity to lead next season?

Very interesting

This was from Chris Brown, the Bills reporter...

very interesting.

Hell ya, I love to hear stuff like this. He wants to step up and be the leader of our D. How can you not love the guy? He'll be going to a few Pro Bowls in his career if he can regain his form prior to his injury. This is obviously not a given, but I hope that his injury wasn't as serious as Spikes' was.

It is obvious that at least one of them (Fletcher and Spikes) won't be back. I don't think either will be. Crowell is going to be our MLB, I just have a feeling. Then Ellison at WLB and then a rookie (hopefully Timmons) at SLB.

Crowell had a broken leg. I'm pretty sure that's easier to come back form than a torn achilles. Plus Spikes had other injuries plaguing him this year as well

crowell has already been medically cleared to play. they staff actually said if we had one more game to play that crowell could play in that game based only on his pain lvl.

Rob S
01-05-2007, 12:45 PM
Interesting stuff on JP:

J.P. Losman finished the season as the league's 11th best rated passer (84.9) ahead of QBs like Chad Pennington, Steve McNair, Eli Manning, Matt Hasselback, Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick, Rex Grossman and Brett Favre.

Losman was 7th in fourth quarter passer rating (89.7).

He was 9th in completion percentage (62.5), 11th in TDs and 11th in avg. gain per pass play.

Sounds to me like we have our QB

art vandelay
01-05-2007, 02:26 PM
Interesting stuff on JP:

J.P. Losman finished the season as the league's 11th best rated passer (84.9) ahead of QBs like Chad Pennington, Steve McNair, Eli Manning, Matt Hasselback, Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick, Rex Grossman and Brett Favre.

Losman was 7th in fourth quarter passer rating (89.7).

He was 9th in completion percentage (62.5), 11th in TDs and 11th in avg. gain per pass play.

Sounds to me like we have our QB

Dude, did you really not already know this? Before the last two games his passer rating was in the 90's. Obviously JP is our QB. Were you considering drafting another one? It's not even the stats though. He actually looks like an NFL QB on the field in terms of leadership, confidence and poise. He also has ridicuolus chemistry with Evans which helps as well. The only problem I have with JP is that he needs to cutdown on the boneheaded throws that he has made. Also, with the Bears game, it kinda seemed like he lost his head. Other than that, I love JP and have been his biggest supporter for a while now.

Rob S
01-05-2007, 02:45 PM
Interesting stuff on JP:

J.P. Losman finished the season as the league's 11th best rated passer (84.9) ahead of QBs like Chad Pennington, Steve McNair, Eli Manning, Matt Hasselback, Ben Roethlisberger, Michael Vick, Rex Grossman and Brett Favre.

Losman was 7th in fourth quarter passer rating (89.7).

He was 9th in completion percentage (62.5), 11th in TDs and 11th in avg. gain per pass play.

Sounds to me like we have our QB

Dude, did you really not already know this? Before the last two games his passer rating was in the 90's. Obviously JP is our QB. Were you considering drafting another one? It's not even the stats though. He actually looks like an NFL QB on the field in terms of leadership, confidence and poise. He also has ridicuolus chemistry with Evans which helps as well. The only problem I have with JP is that he needs to cutdown on the boneheaded throws that he has made. Also, with the Bears game, it kinda seemed like he lost his head. Other than that, I love JP and have been his biggest supporter for a while now.

I knew he had a good passer rating, but had no clue he was pretty much top 10 in every category.

fischbowl
01-05-2007, 07:02 PM
What would y'all think about trading down and getting Eric Weddle?

SuperMcGee
01-05-2007, 07:10 PM
What would y'all think about trading down and getting Eric Weddle?

He's certainly the type of guy we'd go after - plays above what's expected of him, great character, can just flat out play the game. Also fits a most likely need. Seems like more of a guy that we'd trade up from the 2nd for a la McCargo than down from the first if we did any such thing. Doubt it happens, but I put nothing past our guys when they find a guy they like, and Weddle seems like he could be just that. I'd rather just wait it out and hope for a guy like Weddle or Hughes to be there in the second round.

DWhitner20
01-05-2007, 08:26 PM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-05-2007, 08:38 PM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?
I think it'd be a pretty bad idea since mcgahee is still under contract for one more year.

DWhitner20
01-05-2007, 08:47 PM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?
I think it'd be a pretty bad idea since mcgahee is still under contract for one more year.

Bad idea to have a replacment with expirience ready?

Space Ghost
01-05-2007, 09:49 PM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?
I think it'd be a pretty bad idea since mcgahee is still under contract for one more year.

Bad idea to have a replacment with expirience ready?

Bad idea to not fill an area of need with a first round pick.

art vandelay
01-05-2007, 11:34 PM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?

That would be an absoultely horrible pick. While I do not like McGahee, I think that we should spend a mid-late round RB to push him.

rocco31fb
01-05-2007, 11:55 PM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?

That would be an absoultely horrible pick. While I do not like McGahee, I think that we should spend a mid-late round RB to push him.

I would rather find a Leon Washington/Mike Bell than draft an already crowned talent.

SuperMcGee
01-06-2007, 12:14 AM
well everyone would like some of their stars to come as later picks, thats base of a good team from within. But we can't just hope to get lucky like that. Washington and Bell aren't even full starters anyway, and our Willis situation would call for one of those for the future if we so needed another RB

art vandelay
01-06-2007, 11:39 AM
What would you guys think of drafting Marshawn Lynch?

That would be an absoultely horrible pick. While I do not like McGahee, I think that we should spend a mid-late round RB to push him.

I would rather find a Leon Washington/Mike Bell than draft an already crowned talent.

I love Lorenzo Booker. However, I don't think we are very intent on getting our RB's involved in the passing game. It seems we like big bruising backs to move the chains and pick up first downs to set up the big pass play.

drmoyer421
01-06-2007, 01:08 PM
well everyone would like some of their stars to come as later picks, thats base of a good team from within. But we can't just hope to get lucky like that. Washington and Bell aren't even full starters anyway, and our Willis situation would call for one of those for the future if we so needed another RB
I really dont care either way about our RB issue, because I think our defensive problems far exceed.
but..
We could re-sign Anthony Thomas, then trade McGahee for a first day pick. Then the Bills could run a duo back system like in Indy or Jacksonville. With an older veteran RB and a young RB, until the younger RB could handle more of the work and is accustom to the blocking in the NFL

Space Ghost
01-06-2007, 01:49 PM
I think we just resign Willis this off season long-term (5 years) so that once he is 30 we can wave bye bye and pick up a new guy. I don't really see why you guys want to get rid of him, sure we have Thomas, his yards per carry are worse, we could draft a day one back, not likely this year, this years running back class blows. Willis is almost averaging 4 yards behind a pretty average offensive line and he was hurt for a few games this year. He missed some games and still got 990 yards on the ground. I don't see a problem with Willis and believe that if we let him go we will pay for it. He is only 25 and hitting his prime. He has also switched running styles from speedy slasher to power and back to speedy slasher, once he gets settled back into his natural speedy slasher role that he worked his way into this year he should be a lot better, especially if we can find a suitable right guard.

SuperMcGee
01-06-2007, 02:33 PM
Things like "averaging almost 4 yards a carry" are not the type of things that impress, especially considering how much he may eventually want for a new deal. RB is not something to largely act on now, but there are those who have their doubts about Willis for as soon as this upcoming season. Anthony Thomas obviously isnt the answer, but we'll just have to wait and see on what is, Willis or not, because nobody knows what we plan on doing with McGahee. I'm not hoping for or predicting anything right now because Willis has disappointed me but still has great talent and like I said, who really knows?

Rob S
01-06-2007, 02:59 PM
Willis is going to want top 5 money, he is barely top 15 imo and may not be.

fischbowl
01-06-2007, 03:04 PM
Fischbowl Bills Mock:

((Pictures To Come))

*Franchise Nate, Trade Him for A Second
**Trade Denney for a 5th, With Hargrove, I do Not Believe Denney is a factor unless Kelsay leaves
***Trade Down In First Round Acquire A Second

1. Eric Weddle, DB, Utah
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/utah/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/371578.jpeg
2a. Brandon Siler, MLB, Florida
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/20/209559.jpg
2b. Jeff Samardzija, WR, Notre Dame
http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/paper660/stills/g8865561.jpg
2c. Joe Staley, OT, CMU
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/cmu/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/229200.jpeg
3. Stephen Nicholas, LB, USF
http://graphics.fansonly.com/confs/bige/graphics/footbl-usf-preview.jpg
4. Daniel Bazuin, DE, CMU (Falling In My Opinion Due to Great DE Class)
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/cmu/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/463505.jpeg
5. Arkee Whitlock, RB, Southern Illinois
http://www.thesouthern.com/content/articles/2005/11/27/sports/10001922.jpg
6. Lyle Sendlein, C, Texas
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/images/2004_05/009/sendlein_lyle_400_11.jpg
7. Chad Upshaw, TE, Buffalo
http://www.ubathletics.buffalo.edu/football/pics/2004/action/Upshaw-IMG_5731w.jpg

SuperMcGee
01-06-2007, 03:09 PM
Eh. It all makes sense I guess but nothing excites me about it too much. The CMU boys and Upshaw would be cool, though

drmoyer421
01-06-2007, 04:13 PM
Dr. Z of SI wrote an article the other day about the best players at each posistion in the NFL.

There were two Bills who made it.
Brian Moorman as the #1 Punter
Jason Peters as the #4 OT

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/01/04/all.pros/index.html

SuperMcGee
01-06-2007, 04:32 PM
I disagree with a lot of it, but Jason Peters getting top tier recognition is unheard of, so great article!

Jimmy
01-06-2007, 07:50 PM
hey i have a question i know at least 1 of u wants wilson, but eactly how fast is he

Space Ghost
01-06-2007, 08:31 PM
hey i have a question i know at least 1 of u wants wilson, but eactly how fast is he

Josh Wilson?

art vandelay
01-06-2007, 10:26 PM
hey i have a question i know at least 1 of u wants wilson, but eactly how fast is he

Josh Wilson?

He runs a 4.3

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-06-2007, 10:39 PM
What do you guys think of Nick Harper? He can play the C2 scheme, and while he would only be a stop-gap, it would give us time to see what we have in youboty.

DWhitner20
01-06-2007, 10:56 PM
What do you guys think of Nick Harper? He can play the C2 scheme, and while he would only be a stop-gap, it would give us time to see what we have in youboty.

That would actually be really good, he's a solid starter and can let Youboty work his way in.

art vandelay
01-06-2007, 11:40 PM
I don't like that draft at all. We don't need to trade down in the 1st Round to get Weddle - I think he will be available in the 2nd. I do like him and Samardzija as prospects though. Nobody is going to trade for Denney, especially for a 5th, and we wouldn't trade him anyway. We won't franchise Nate either, Levy promised him that we wouldn't and he is a man of his word.

Nicholas is a bad fit for the Cover 2 - he's a blitzing LB. I really think that Crowell will shift to MLB. I don't see OT, C and DE being needs for us - we need to address TE on Day 1. I don't know who Whitlock is but I am a huge advocate of drafting a RB early.


Here's how I see it shaping out:

1. Timmons/Willis
2. Wilson/Hughes/Ross/Weddle
3. RB/TE/OG

art vandelay
01-06-2007, 11:43 PM
I really think that we will re-sign either Clements or McGahee long-term. Not both, but one. I truly believe this. One of them will be on the team in two years and one will not. I hope to God that it is Clements, not because I am in love with the guy at all, but because McGahee does not deserve to be given a huge contract - he has not earned it in my book.

Iamcanadian
01-06-2007, 11:52 PM
I don't like that draft at all. We don't need to trade down in the 1st Round to get Weddle - I think he will be available in the 2nd. I do like him and Samardzija as prospects though. Nobody is going to trade for Denney, especially for a 5th, and we wouldn't trade him anyway. We won't franchise Nate either, Levy promised him that we wouldn't and he is a man of his word.

Nicholas is a bad fit for the Cover 2 - he's a blitzing LB. I really think that Crowell will shift to MLB. I don't see OT, C and DE being needs for us - we need to address TE on Day 1. I don't know who Whitlock is but I am a huge advocate of drafting a RB early.


Here's how I see it shaping out:

1. Timmons/Willis
2. Wilson/Hughes/Ross/Weddle
3. RB/TE/OG

I agree with most of what you say, however neither Timmons nor Willis is considered a top 20 pick at this time. The combine might change that but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'd say OT, OG and OC are problem areas but outside of Blalock, or Brown, there isn't any others worth picking.
CB has to be addressed for sure either in round 1 or 2.
TE is a possibility in round 3 but if the Bills aren't committed to throwing the ball to their TE and feel they can get by with a blocker, then round 4 is more probable.
You can forget Weddle, safety isn't a real need.
The draft is full of top notch WR's, so you cannot count out that position.

Rob S
01-07-2007, 12:52 AM
I don't like that draft at all. We don't need to trade down in the 1st Round to get Weddle - I think he will be available in the 2nd. I do like him and Samardzija as prospects though. Nobody is going to trade for Denney, especially for a 5th, and we wouldn't trade him anyway. We won't franchise Nate either, Levy promised him that we wouldn't and he is a man of his word.

Nicholas is a bad fit for the Cover 2 - he's a blitzing LB. I really think that Crowell will shift to MLB. I don't see OT, C and DE being needs for us - we need to address TE on Day 1. I don't know who Whitlock is but I am a huge advocate of drafting a RB early.


Here's how I see it shaping out:

1. Timmons/Willis
2. Wilson/Hughes/Ross/Weddle
3. RB/TE/OG

I agree with most of what you say, however neither Timmons nor Willis is considered a top 20 pick at this time. The combine might change that but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'd say OT, OG and OC are problem areas but outside of Blalock, or Brown, there isn't any others worth picking.
CB has to be addressed for sure either in round 1 or 2.
TE is a possibility in round 3 but if the Bills aren't committed to throwing the ball to their TE and feel they can get by with a blocker, then round 4 is more probable.
You can forget Weddle, safety isn't a real need.
The draft is full of top notch WR's, so you cannot count out that position.

Willis definitely is top 20 and timmons is very close, if not there already.

art vandelay
01-07-2007, 08:21 AM
I don't like that draft at all. We don't need to trade down in the 1st Round to get Weddle - I think he will be available in the 2nd. I do like him and Samardzija as prospects though. Nobody is going to trade for Denney, especially for a 5th, and we wouldn't trade him anyway. We won't franchise Nate either, Levy promised him that we wouldn't and he is a man of his word.

Nicholas is a bad fit for the Cover 2 - he's a blitzing LB. I really think that Crowell will shift to MLB. I don't see OT, C and DE being needs for us - we need to address TE on Day 1. I don't know who Whitlock is but I am a huge advocate of drafting a RB early.


Here's how I see it shaping out:

1. Timmons/Willis
2. Wilson/Hughes/Ross/Weddle
3. RB/TE/OG

I agree with most of what you say, however neither Timmons nor Willis is considered a top 20 pick at this time. The combine might change that but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'd say OT, OG and OC are problem areas but outside of Blalock, or Brown, there isn't any others worth picking.
CB has to be addressed for sure either in round 1 or 2.
TE is a possibility in round 3 but if the Bills aren't committed to throwing the ball to their TE and feel they can get by with a blocker, then round 4 is more probable.
You can forget Weddle, safety isn't a real need.
The draft is full of top notch WR's, so you cannot count out that position.

Both Willis and Timmons are Top 20 picks at this time. OT is not really a huge need - We have locked up Peters at LT and Pennington played very well at RT and we have Butler behind him. All I see a "need" for is a backup LT who would only play if Peters got hurt, so I see that as a very late round pick. We have Fowler and Merz at OC so I see no need for a draft pick there. As far as WR goes, I see a late Day 1/early Day 2 pick (mid-round). Weddle can play CB or S, hell, he can even play offense.

cowboysforever
01-07-2007, 08:30 AM
I don't like that draft at all. We don't need to trade down in the 1st Round to get Weddle - I think he will be available in the 2nd. I do like him and Samardzija as prospects though. Nobody is going to trade for Denney, especially for a 5th, and we wouldn't trade him anyway. We won't franchise Nate either, Levy promised him that we wouldn't and he is a man of his word.

Nicholas is a bad fit for the Cover 2 - he's a blitzing LB. I really think that Crowell will shift to MLB. I don't see OT, C and DE being needs for us - we need to address TE on Day 1. I don't know who Whitlock is but I am a huge advocate of drafting a RB early.


Here's how I see it shaping out:

1. Timmons/Willis
2. Wilson/Hughes/Ross/Weddle
3. RB/TE/OG

I agree with most of what you say, however neither Timmons nor Willis is considered a top 20 pick at this time. The combine might change that but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I'd say OT, OG and OC are problem areas but outside of Blalock, or Brown, there isn't any others worth picking.
CB has to be addressed for sure either in round 1 or 2.
TE is a possibility in round 3 but if the Bills aren't committed to throwing the ball to their TE and feel they can get by with a blocker, then round 4 is more probable.
You can forget Weddle, safety isn't a real need.
The draft is full of top notch WR's, so you cannot count out that position.

Both Willis and Timmons are Top 20 picks at this time. OT is not really a huge need - We have locked up Peters at LT and Pennington played very well at RT and we have Butler behind him. All I see a "need" for is a backup LT who would only play if Peters got hurt, so I see that as a very late round pick. We have Fowler and Merz at OC so I see no need for a draft pick there. As far as WR goes, I see a late Day 1/early Day 2 pick (mid-round). Weddle can play CB or S, hell, he can even play offense.

How did Simpson, Yooo-booty and Whitner play this season?

art vandelay
01-07-2007, 08:32 AM
Simpson and Whitner played great, they did not play like rookies at all, and they both were effective in run support and pass coverage.

Youboty missed most of training camp with the death of his mom and then got injured so he didn't play until around Week 14 or so. He looked pretty good in his limited playing time, he didn't get burned or anything.

cowboysforever
01-07-2007, 08:39 AM
Simpson and Whitner played great, they did not play like rookies at all, and they both were effective in run support and pass coverage.

Youboty missed most of training camp with the death of his mom and then got injured so he didn't play until around Week 14 or so. He looked pretty good in his limited playing time, he didn't get burned or anything.

Yeah Buffalo got roasted for its draft but right now it is looking pretty good -- less the injuries to McCargo and Yooo-Booty who woulda known.

art vandelay
01-07-2007, 08:46 AM
Simpson and Whitner played great, they did not play like rookies at all, and they both were effective in run support and pass coverage.

Youboty missed most of training camp with the death of his mom and then got injured so he didn't play until around Week 14 or so. He looked pretty good in his limited playing time, he didn't get burned or anything.

Yeah Buffalo got roasted for its draft but right now it is looking pretty good -- less the injuries to McCargo and Yooo-Booty who woulda known.

True...we also started Keith Ellison, Terrance Pennington and Kyle Williams - all whom have played very well.

DWhitner20
01-07-2007, 11:56 AM
Don't forget Aaron Merz, who played a few times and actually started one game and held his own.

glazeduck
01-07-2007, 03:30 PM
HYPOTHETICALS...

Ok bills fans, just for fun, and perhaps to start some new convos... here are 2 hypothetical situations that I could see possibly happening in real life.

Scenario #1... If Calvin Johnson slips a bit. Say the top 5 is Russell, Quinn, Peterson, Adams and Thomas in some order (wouldn't be completely unheard of), maybe Branch or somebody goes too, again, doubtful, but not completely outside the realm of possibility...would you want the bills to overpay and trade up to nab Calvin Johnson at 6 or 7, even if it cost us our #1 and maybe #2 and 3 or something? What about Clements and our #1 for CJ? I'd do just about anything to get him in a bills jersey.

Scenario #2... Assuming we decide to use our draftpicks elsewhere than on a big red zone receiver, pissing me off, but probably likely...would you be ok w/ the Bills taking a flyer on Mike Williams if/when he gets cut from Detroit? I'd be up for this if we put things into his contract that gave him incentive to get into shape, but he looked good for Detroit when he actually got to play.

Your thoughts?

fischbowl
01-07-2007, 03:34 PM
Weddle would be switched to CB.

Space Ghost
01-07-2007, 03:35 PM
HYPOTHETICALS...

Ok bills fans, just for fun, and perhaps to start some new convos... here are 2 hypothetical situations that I could see possibly happening in real life.

Scenario #1... If Calvin Johnson slips a bit. Say the top 5 is Russell, Quinn, Peterson, Adams and Thomas in some order (wouldn't be completely unheard of), maybe Branch or somebody goes too, again, doubtful, but not completely outside the realm of possibility...would you want the bills to overpay and trade up to nab Calvin Johnson at 6 or 7, even if it cost us our #1 and maybe #2 and 3 or something? What about Clements and our #1 for CJ? I'd do just about anything to get him in a bills jersey.

Scenario #2... Assuming we decide to use our draftpicks elsewhere than on a big red zone receiver, pissing me off, but probably likely...would you be ok w/ the Bills taking a flyer on Mike Williams if/when he gets cut from Detroit? I'd be up for this if we put things into his contract that gave him incentive to get into shape, but he looked good for Detroit when he actually got to play.

Your thoughts?

No, we go defense rounds one and two. I wouldn't mind having Mike Williams in Buffalo, but only if he worked hard and earned his roster spot. I would want him as a FA though, not acquired thru a trade.

art vandelay
01-07-2007, 04:03 PM
#1) CJ would NEVER slip to #5. No way in hell. He might stay in school if the Raiders want him with the 1st pick.

#2) Mike Williams ehhh...doesn't seem like our kind of guy. He is lazy and that won't be tolerated at 1 Bills Drive. I would take him as a FA but he would have to come very cheap.

essential
01-07-2007, 05:03 PM
HYPOTHETICALS...

Ok bills fans, just for fun, and perhaps to start some new convos... here are 2 hypothetical situations that I could see possibly happening in real life.

Scenario #1... If Calvin Johnson slips a bit. Say the top 5 is Russell, Quinn, Peterson, Adams and Thomas in some order (wouldn't be completely unheard of), maybe Branch or somebody goes too, again, doubtful, but not completely outside the realm of possibility...would you want the bills to overpay and trade up to nab Calvin Johnson at 6 or 7, even if it cost us our #1 and maybe #2 and 3 or something? What about Clements and our #1 for CJ? I'd do just about anything to get him in a bills jersey.

Scenario #2... Assuming we decide to use our draftpicks elsewhere than on a big red zone receiver, pissing me off, but probably likely...would you be ok w/ the Bills taking a flyer on Mike Williams if/when he gets cut from Detroit? I'd be up for this if we put things into his contract that gave him incentive to get into shape, but he looked good for Detroit when he actually got to play.

Your thoughts?

i would totally trade up for CJ, however there is no way he slips past 3/4, wherever the Bucs end up picking. we would have to trade to 2/3 overall to get him, which i wouldn't mind doing, but it would cost us two first rounders, and prob a 2nd and 3rd somewhere. if we could tag clements somehow we could trade him and our first for the 4th overall pick to the Bucs. the Bucs tried to trade us for clements in the offseason, clements for mcfarland.

anyway, i can't see up trading up for CJ, it would take too much, there is no way he falls out of the top 4.

i wouldn't mind giving mike williams a shot either if it was for the right price, he's still full of talent, just needs the right environment, he never had character concerns.

DWhitner20
01-07-2007, 05:29 PM
About Mike Williams:
While growing up, he rooted for the Buffalo Bills. His favorite player was Barry Sanders, who he enjoyed watching have some of his best games against Tampa, his hometown team.

from http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=272&season=8

As for moving up to take Calvin, I'd rather not pay as much as we'd need to to do so. This class is getting deep at WR, I'd like to grab someone in round 2 like either Rice, Meachem, or Bowe who could be a number 2 to Lee Evans.

essential
01-07-2007, 06:31 PM
About Mike Williams:
As for moving up to take Calvin, I'd rather not pay as much as we'd need to to do so. This class is getting deep at WR, I'd like to grab someone in round 2 like either Rice, Meachem, or Bowe who could be a number 2 to Lee Evans.

i would LOVE rice in the second, but i just can't see him being there, especially after the combine and personal workouts.

also, a lot of people want timmons now, but how far do you think he could fall if we didn't pick him at 12? anyone think we can get willis at 12 and get back into the late first round for timmons like we did last year with mccargo, would he fall that far?

as long as we sign steinbach in FA, i'm fine taking 2 linebackers on day one, as long as they are projected starters, not projects.

Rob S
01-07-2007, 06:40 PM
I know everyone is clammoring for a good red zone WR, but perhaps the cheaper solution to our redzone woes is a stud TE. Greg Olsen or Zach Miller will probably fall to the 2nd. I would rather see one of them then yet another WR.

glazeduck
01-07-2007, 08:39 PM
with as deep as the wr and te classes are in this draft I don't see why we can't possibly add one of both, but I think WR is a bigger need

rocco31fb
01-07-2007, 08:52 PM
with as deep as the wr and te classes are in this draft I don't see why we can't possibly add one of both, but I think WR is a bigger need

WR is a bigger need, especially since Losman got on a good rhythm with Royal end of the season. A young TE to back him up and maybe start in a year would be grand. I think we should find a starting LB in Round one, and fill skill positions such as WR, RB and TE later in the draft.

SuperMcGee
01-07-2007, 09:34 PM
If Pennington can start to hold his own consistently without help from our tight ends then a TE would be a nice option, but we'd get a lot more out of a receiver, a bigger guy that can work down the middle, work to get the ball, but also get downfield where JP does his best work, which is one of the advantages of going WR instead of a TE that would need to take the time to chip somebody or get through box traffic before getting out there

BuffaloDraftGeek
01-07-2007, 09:48 PM
Does anyone think its a possibility we won't go after a bigger guy? Fairchild has said before he prefers speed over size, I think we may end up with another speed receiver.

rocco31fb
01-07-2007, 10:05 PM
Does anyone think its a possibility we won't go after a bigger guy? Fairchild has said before he prefers speed over size, I think we may end up with another speed receiver.

Marv makes the call. Thats why we resigned Josh Reed. He doesnt fit the "speed" type. Need that posession WR.

SuperMcGee
01-07-2007, 10:10 PM
Does anyone think its a possibility we won't go after a bigger guy? Fairchild has said before he prefers speed over size, I think we may end up with another speed receiver.

Its very possible, I just think thats its sensible to have one. The number of times Losman tried to throw it over the middle or toss a high one to his biggest target (Royal) only to have it dropped, along with the number of times that he wasn't able to put it somewhere where his receiver could just use his body to get to the ball leave me with hope for a bigger guy out there

art vandelay
01-07-2007, 10:32 PM
What about both size and speed aka Robert Meachem.

DWhitner20
01-07-2007, 11:08 PM
What about both size and speed aka Robert Meachem.

I'd love that. I really think we need a WR, because even though Price signed a 5 year deal to come in I don't think he'll be around that long. Parrish, while he shows flashes and we definetly need to work him in more won't ever be a consistent target, I like Josh Reed a lot but he's best working from the slot. I think we need a true number 2 guy whom we could find in FA (DJ Hackett) or the draft in round 2.

Iamcanadian
01-08-2007, 04:30 AM
HYPOTHETICALS...

Ok bills fans, just for fun, and perhaps to start some new convos... here are 2 hypothetical situations that I could see possibly happening in real life.

Scenario #1... If Calvin Johnson slips a bit. Say the top 5 is Russell, Quinn, Peterson, Adams and Thomas in some order (wouldn't be completely unheard of), maybe Branch or somebody goes too, again, doubtful, but not completely outside the realm of possibility...would you want the bills to overpay and trade up to nab Calvin Johnson at 6 or 7, even if it cost us our #1 and maybe #2 and 3 or something? What about Clements and our #1 for CJ? I'd do just about anything to get him in a bills jersey.

Scenario #2... Assuming we decide to use our draftpicks elsewhere than on a big red zone receiver, pissing me off, but probably likely...would you be ok w/ the Bills taking a flyer on Mike Williams if/when he gets cut from Detroit? I'd be up for this if we put things into his contract that gave him incentive to get into shape, but he looked good for Detroit when he actually got to play.

Your thoughts?

1st, when Jauron was HC at Detroit, he wouldn't play him although Millen asked him to, Mariuchi wouldn't play him and now Martz who loves offensive players wouldn't play him. When 3 HC 's refuse to play you, your a total flop with no upside. He certainly won't be coming to Buffalo with Jauron as our HC.

DWhitner20
01-08-2007, 12:47 PM
Notable FA Pickups:
Nick Harper, CB - Indy
OG (Dockerry, Steinbach, Manuwai, or Deilman)
Ian Scott, DT - Chicago

Round 1: Patrick Willis, ILB - Ole Miss
http://taken2thextreme.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/willis.jpg.w300h421.jpg

Round 2: Sidney Rice, WR - SC
http://www.espn.go.com/media/ncf/2005/1102/photo/a_rice_195.jpg

Round 3: Tony Hunt, RB - PSU
http://www.thegusbus.com/2004wildcats/PSUtonyhuntRB2.jpg

Round 4: Nate Harris, ILB - Louisville
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/257860.jpg

- 5th round pick traded to St. Louis for Anthony Hargrove -

Round 6: Conrad Bolston, DT - Maryland
http://media.scout.com/Media/Player/64_Bolston,Conrad.JPG

Round 7: Le'Ron McClain, FB - Alabama
http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/photo/MCCLAINL_MUG05_ML150.JPG

fischbowl
01-08-2007, 01:25 PM
Rice in ROund 2?

DWhitner20
01-08-2007, 02:33 PM
Rice in ROund 2?

It's possible, but I guess Meachem is more realistic. :(

SuperMcGee
01-08-2007, 02:33 PM
Rice in the 2nd would be nice but unlikely
I'm not a big fan of Tony Hunt. I don't think its worth it for us to go after him on day one
some tough FA pickups there. Also, Manuwai already re-signed with the Jaguars

fischbowl
01-08-2007, 04:32 PM
Here's Another Bills Mock, along the same basis as the other, just utilizing your comments:

The Buffalo Bills: Let The Sexy War Room Orgy Begin!
* Franchise Nate Clements; trade him for a 2nd Round Pick
**Trade Ryan Denney for a 5th
***Trade Down from 12th Overall. Acquire Late 1st, 3rd Round Pick
^Denotes Underclassman

1. Robert Meachem, WR, Tennessee^
http://www.netitor.com/photos/schools/tenn/sports/m-footbl/04-05action/a-meachem_1844.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3625/meachemkg5.th.jpg (http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=meachemkg5.jpg)

2a. Eric Weddle, CB, Utah
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/utah/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/371578.jpeg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3051/weddlevx8.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=weddlevx8.jpg)

2b. Rufus Alexander, OLB, Oklahoma
http://sooner.nmn.speedera.net/pics28/200/LU/LUBCPNFZNGZNVHY.20041217181020.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/783/alexanderxo8.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=alexanderxo8.jpg)

3a. Doug Free, OT, NIU
http://www.nationalchamps.net/2005/sub/pics/small/northernillinois_doug_free_sm.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1788/freeoo3.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=freeoo3.jpg)

3b. Joe Newton, TE, Oregon State
http://gregkeene.typepad.com/keene/images/20060410-30D-IMG_1439.jpg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/3479/newtonxk2.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newtonxk2.jpg)

4. Daniel Bazuin, DE, CMU
http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/cmu/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/45535.jpeg
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1659/bazuinma0.th.jpg (http://img382.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bazuinma0.jpg)

5. Corey Hilliard, OL, Oklahoma State
http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/photo/2006COREYHILLIARDOSU2001.JPG
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3563/hilliardss0.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hilliardss0.jpg)

6. Arkee Whitlock, HB, Southern Illinois
http://www.thesouthern.com/content/articles/2005/11/27/sports/10001922.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4696/whitlockrf9.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whitlockrf9.jpg)

7. Akieem Jolla, WR, New Mexico State
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/21/211707.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1157/jollamf1.th.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jollamf1.jpg)

ENJOY!

SuperMcGee
01-08-2007, 04:44 PM
No Chad Upshaw :(

fischbowl
01-08-2007, 07:10 PM
Sorry McGee. There are always UDFAs.

DWhitner20
01-08-2007, 07:50 PM
No chance we trade Denney, he's solid depth and for a 5th? No one would pay that.

fischbowl
01-08-2007, 08:03 PM
No chance we trade Denney, he's solid depth and for a 5th? No one would pay that.

Anthony Hargrove has really impressed me, that's all.

DBeebe82
01-08-2007, 08:11 PM
Hey guys. Ive been a buffalo bills fan ever since i can remember and have always used this site to look over mock drafts or what you have been arguing about concerning the team.

I'm another fan hoping for a large redzone target for jp losman as i believe it will truly help his confidence in the long run though i doubt marv goes that route. I would absolutly love CJ (i can dream right), Jarrett, or Rice in the late first or early second if we decide to pull a trade. Otherwise im all for leon hall (im a huge michigan fan) or a linebacker in Willis or Timmons.

fischbowl
01-08-2007, 08:28 PM
Whats up Don Beebe?

As for Leon Hall, i really dislike him. Id prefer a more raw prosepct such as Darelle Revis or Marcus McCauley if we were to go true corner. As you can see from my mocks, my favorite is Eric Weddle. To me he's the complete package for this year.

Thanks for Joining!

FISCHBOWL

art vandelay
01-08-2007, 09:01 PM
No chance we trade Denney, he's solid depth and for a 5th? No one would pay that.

Anthony Hargrove has really impressed me, that's all.

It doesn't matter, we won't trade him. We might not re-sign Kelsay though.

art vandelay
01-08-2007, 09:11 PM
Free is a bad pick, simply because he is vastly overrated. Not sure about the DE pick, I think we could go somewhere else with that pick, like another LB. I am not a big fan of Joe Newton, I basically see Tim Euhus Jr. Also, no chance we draft 2 WR's. We already have plenty. Again, WE WILL NOT FRANCHISE NATE and WE WON'T TRADE DENNEY. Also, a trade down is pretty unlikely in my mind and also I doubt that we go WR in the 1st simply for the fact that we have alot of $ invested there and have good depth. Other than that, I like Meachem, Weddle and Alexander as prospects.

art vandelay
01-08-2007, 09:20 PM
Notable FA Pickups:
Nick Harper, CB - Indy
OG (Dockerry, Steinbach, Manuwai, or Deilman)
Ian Scott, DT - Chicago

Round 1: Patrick Willis, ILB - Ole Miss
http://taken2thextreme.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/willis.jpg.w300h421.jpg

Round 2: Sidney Rice, WR - SC
http://www.espn.go.com/media/ncf/2005/1102/photo/a_rice_195.jpg

Round 3: Tony Hunt, RB - PSU
http://www.thegusbus.com/2004wildcats/PSUtonyhuntRB2.jpg

Round 4: Nate Harris, ILB - Louisville
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/25/257860.jpg

- 5th round pick traded to St. Louis for Anthony Hargrove -

Round 6: Conrad Bolston, DT - Maryland
http://media.scout.com/Media/Player/64_Bolston,Conrad.JPG

Round 7: Le'Ron McClain, FB - Alabama
http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/photo/MCCLAINL_MUG05_ML150.JPG

I like the Nick Harper pickup because it is semi-realistic and he fits the scheme well. Manuawi already got resigned and it would be tough to get any of the O-Lineman you listed. I do think that we will sign an OG, but it might not be any of the guys you listed. I don't think that we will sign Scott - I think he will be re-signed - but if we can somehow get him I would like to have him.

As far as the draft goes, Willis is a solid pick but I am really not a Sidney Rice fan. Rice reminds me too much of Ashley Lelie with not as good speed and he comes from a pass-happy offense that does not have a good track record with WR's in the NFL. I am not a Tony Hunt fan either and I don't know much about Harris or Bolston but they are picks that fill needs which is good. I think Crowell is moving to MLB so you might consider an OLB instead of a MLB in Harris. I love McClain, I think he is one of the most underrated players in the entire draft. Overall, a decent mock, and pretty realistic.

SuperMcGee
01-08-2007, 09:43 PM
Free is a bad pick, simply because he is vastly overrated. Not sure about the DE pick, I think we could go somewhere else with that pick, like another LB. I am not a big fan of Joe Newton, I basically see Tim Euhus Jr. Also, no chance we draft 2 WR's. We already have plenty. Again, WE WILL NOT FRANCHISE NATE and WE WON'T TRADE DENNEY. Also, a trade down is pretty unlikely in my mind and also I doubt that we go WR in the 1st simply for the fact that we have alot of $ invested there and have good depth. Other than that, I like Meachem, Weddle and Alexander as prospects.

Joe Newton is a kazillion times better than Euhus

art vandelay
01-08-2007, 09:53 PM
Free is a bad pick, simply because he is vastly overrated. Not sure about the DE pick, I think we could go somewhere else with that pick, like another LB. I am not a big fan of Joe Newton, I basically see Tim Euhus Jr. Also, no chance we draft 2 WR's. We already have plenty. Again, WE WILL NOT FRANCHISE NATE and WE WON'T TRADE DENNEY. Also, a trade down is pretty unlikely in my mind and also I doubt that we go WR in the 1st simply for the fact that we have alot of $ invested there and have good depth. Other than that, I like Meachem, Weddle and Alexander as prospects.

Joe Newton is a kazillion times better than Euhus

Jonny Harline is da truph.

DWhitner20
01-08-2007, 10:38 PM
I think Crowell is moving to MLB so you might consider an OLB instead of a MLB in Harris.

I think this is likley to happen too but then again Crowell is a very good fit at OLB in this system and played awesome this year so I don't know if the coaches will come to tinkering with that even though he's played MLB before. When I put the Harris pick in I was thinking about him or KaMichael Hall but I chose Harris cause it was in my gut and since we simply need LB depth anywich way.

If Crowell moves inside I would love to pickup a OLB, I like Timmons but I'm not as high on him as you are, I want to learn a bit more about him.

What I've seen of Patrick Willis has been awesome, especially the one clip of him just form tackling Joseph Addai at it's best, he could be a real good MLB for us.

Needless to say, I'm really excited about this draft and the many scenarios...

SuperMcGee
01-08-2007, 10:45 PM
I think Crowell is moving to MLB so you might consider an OLB instead of a MLB in Harris.

I think this is likley to happen too but then again Crowell is a very good fit at OLB in this system and played awesome this year so I don't know if the coaches will come to tinkering with that even though he's played MLB before. When I put the Harris pick in I was thinking about him or KaMichael Hall but I chose Harris cause it was in my gut and since we simply need LB depth anywich way.

If Crowell moves inside I would love to pickup a OLB, I like Timmons but I'm not as high on him as you are, I want to learn a bit more about him.

What I've seen of Patrick Willis has been awesome, especially the one clip of him just form tackling Joseph Addai at it's best, he could be a real good MLB for us.

Needless to say, I'm really excited about this draft and the many scenarios...

If Crowell did go to MLB then Willis would play OLB in his scenario and we'd have no special depth at any of the LB positions (in a Spikes-gone scenario) or would have either Willis for a little while or Ellison at backup for OLB and could use depth at MLB (digiorgio = nothing) in a Spikes-stays scenario
And I also have Timmons beneath Willis and Posluszny by a nice margin

art vandelay
01-08-2007, 10:54 PM
I think Crowell is moving to MLB so you might consider an OLB instead of a MLB in Harris.

I think this is likley to happen too but then again Crowell is a very good fit at OLB in this system and played awesome this year so I don't know if the coaches will come to tinkering with that even though he's played MLB before. When I put the Harris pick in I was thinking about him or KaMichael Hall but I chose Harris cause it was in my gut and since we simply need LB depth anywich way.

If Crowell moves inside I would love to pickup a OLB, I like Timmons but I'm not as high on him as you are, I want to learn a bit more about him.

What I've seen of Patrick Willis has been awesome, especially the one clip of him just form tackling Joseph Addai at it's best, he could be a real good MLB for us.

Needless to say, I'm really excited about this draft and the many scenarios...

If Crowell did go to MLB then Willis would play OLB in his scenario and we'd have no special depth at any of the LB positions (in a Spikes-gone scenario) or would have either Willis for a little while or Ellison at backup for OLB and could use depth at MLB (digiorgio = nothing) in a Spikes-stays scenario
And I also have Timmons beneath Willis and Posluszny by a nice margin

Here's my LB rankings (both MLB and OLB)

1. Lawrence Timmons, Florida State
2. Patrick Willis, Ole Miss
3. Paul Posluzny, Penn State
4. Earl Everett, Florida
5. Jon Beason, Miami
6. Rufus Alexander, Oklahoma

Rob S
01-08-2007, 10:55 PM
I think Willis is by far the best LB in this draft

pysseddoph
01-09-2007, 07:50 AM
i think the team needs are still wrong for the bills. if it were me id have it ..


LB: with the potential loss of London Fletcher and the rumored upcoming release of tko, the bills will look to address this position both in free agency as well as the draft.

DT: Tim Anderson is for the most part done in buffalo and the bills run defense ranked 28th this past year. all this leaves the bills really thin inside the tackles.


OG: speaking of inside the tackles. Duke Preston may be best suited as a depth player and the bills rushing offense was very offensive. that along with the pass protection break downs thru the middle makes this an area of upgrading as well. peters is a lock for now at the LT position and the play of Pennington at the RT as the year went on gives him the inside track to keep his starting job.

glazeduck
01-09-2007, 01:40 PM
OK, so my response to some of the things said lately...

1. Joe Newton = Tim Euhus Jr...WTF? why? because they went to the same school? So did Todd Heap and Everett, and we've see how well thats worked out so far. I see a ton of Newton being from Oregon, and quite honestly, the best comparrison I see is Tony Gonzalez, I really think he's that good.

1b. Jonny Harline? Got to watch this kid in the Vegas bowl and I've got bad news for his fans...Kid's got terrific hands, but if he gets drafted at all (I don't think he will), it'll be as an Hback, there is no way that kid is 6'4 240. I'd say he's more like 6'2 210, really don't see him getting drafted, and if he does not before rd 6.

2. Robert Meachem, not a huge fan, I'd prefer CJ, Jarrett, Ginn (even though he's small, he's a hell of a playmaker) and Rice in the 1st and Bowe and Baker in the 2nd over Meachem, I have a feeling he'll measure in closer to 6'1 than 6'3. I'd also prefer to sign DJ Hackett over drafting Meachem...just not a huge fan.

3. As far as corner goes, there are so many good ones in this draft that we should easily be able to find a starter, Hall, McCaulley, Revis, Ross, Houston, Wilson, Bennett, Hughes, Jackson, Wright, Brown...one of them should be there in the 3rd. If not, DeAndre Jackson will be a hell of a steal a little later.

4. Notice i didn't mention Weddle. From what I've seen this kid is a safety and a safety only, at best he's a tweener and doesn't look as athletic as any of the 11 or 12 guys I just mentioned above. Kid seems like a good player, just not at a position that we need him in.

5. LB...If we draft Willis, Buster Davis, or another college MLB, they will play MLB. It makes zero sense to me to move one guy in from a position he was playing and another guy out. I don't have too many strong feelings either way about LB, i feel that we should probably keep TKO for leadership, i still think he's got some gas left, with him, Ellison, and Crowell i really only see us needing one more. An interesting idea that i haven't seen being mentioned would be for us to draft Rouse or Sabby Piscitelli, both SSs in college, but both are bigger than Ellison, good in coverage, and both have builds to put on more weight.

6. I see us drafting one OL day one. If Front Office doesn't see Pennington as the answer I feel we'll draft a tackle...Imagine if Gaither fell to the 2nd?! W/ his rawness and the quality of this draft its not impossible to imagine, although he'll probably show up at the combine and really help his stock. At any rate, I'm hoping and praying we use our cap money to sign a vet RT, and resign Gandy, i think the less we shake up our line the faster they'll gel next year.

7. Finally... With the talent in this draft, I'd love for us to trade down, at 12 we could realistically (at least according to the value chart) get a lower 1st AND a 2nd or a 1st and multiple thirds or later round picks, with us trying to go younger, this seems like the draft to do it in

1. (trade down into 20s for extra 2nd) Jared Gaither
2a. Dwayne Bowe
2b. Daymeion Hughes (Or Houston if he's there)
3. Joe Newton
4. Sabby P (or Rouse if he's there...doubt it though)

art vandelay
01-09-2007, 01:56 PM
Todd Heap and Kevin Everett didn't go to the same schoo. Everett went to Da U and Heap went to Arizona State.

glazeduck
01-09-2007, 07:28 PM
yeah i realized that after i posted... I think maybe i was thinking of Shockey? Not sure.

Anyways, the point remains, Newton and Euhus is an awful comparison, really the only things they have in common is school, ethnicity, and position...thats about where the similarities end

toonsterwu
01-09-2007, 07:35 PM
I know a lot of Bills fans on this board are pulling for LB. Here's my case against it, and what I plan on adjusting my pick to whenever I revamp my unfinished mock (well, the rough copy was finished).

Anyhow, my case against LB is

1. Fit.

By all accounts, the Bills are looking to shore up run D, and they feel that London Fletcher-Baker can be improved on. The ideal is to find a guy big enough to be good against the run, while also having the depth to drop back and cover. In short, the ideal would be homerun Brian Urlacher type addition.

Of course, that's next to impossible this year. The names being tossed around seem to be Timmons at weakside linebacker. Summarily, the corresponding move would be Angelo Crowell to MIKE. Would Crowell be better against the run? I think so. Would he be significantly better? I don't think so as of right now. This leads to ...

2. Necessity

Crowell excelled at WLB this year. They seem quite big on Keith Ellison, so there is a weakside option on the roster already. System wise, LB is not that difficult to learn, relatively speaking of course. Especially when ...

3. Value

The top values likely are Timmons/Beason, at least, on paper right now. Willis/Pos are more late first round types ... and neither really is a good fit. Timmons/Beason could be, but as noted, why make such thorough changes, especially when Ellison is someone they seem to really like.

Now, I'm not saying LB is possible, but that's why, at this early stage, I'm not sold on it. As Levy/Modrak/Jauron have shown, though, they'll go for their guy, so who knows.

What would I do at LB? Personally, I'd slide Spikes to MLB and look for a SAM.

What I think I am changing my pick to: DT. In particular, Amobi Okoye. Okoye gets a mixed response right now from many people, but I tend to think that the upside of Amobi is great enough that, at the end of the day, he'll be a mid-first round value. Who does Amobi remind me of? Somewhat of a young Booger McFarland (back in the Sapp in Bucs uniform days). He would add some size to the middle of the line. Kyle Williams is more of a "wave", "plugger", whatever you want to call it, type, and McCargo was brought in more to be the 3-tech disruptor. Demarcus Tyler is another thought (and would be paired with his collegiate teammate), but I'm not sure Tyler can work his way up there.

This didn't come out as clear as I wanted, but too lazy to go back and retype.

art vandelay
01-09-2007, 08:03 PM
yeah i realized that after i posted... I think maybe i was thinking of Shockey? Not sure.

Anyways, the point remains, Newton and Euhus is an awful comparison, really the only things they have in common is school, ethnicity, and position...thats about where the similarities end

1. School
2. Position
3. Ethnicity
4. Pass-Catching TE
5. Doesn't have great speed
6. Can't block well

Sure, Newton is more talented, but it is still a good comparison.

Space Ghost
01-09-2007, 08:18 PM
Toonster, I appreciate the post in here and I am one of the few Bills fans on here who wnat to add a defensive tackle again in round one this year, however I would much rather Glenn Dorsey if/when he declares over Amobi Okoye, that is for sure, and I would take Branch in a heart beat (I know all you haters say he is too big but size doesn't matter at all, it is what you do with that size, Urlacher is a giant LB for a cover-2 yet he is one of the best cover-2 middle linebackers ever).

Personally, I don't want a linebacker in round one, but I can see how it is a possibility and it would be my second choice behind defensive tackle and until Dorsey declares it is number one right now. I am expecting Baker to be gone and we either a) draft a middle linebacker in the first four rounds or b) shift Crowell over and draft depth in rounds four-seven as backups, that gives us either: Crowell/New Kid/Spikes or Ellison/Crowell/Spikes. There is also a possibility that both Spikes and Fletcher are gone next year, even though I can't see Spikes getting cut, some guys on here think he will be for some reasons; so there could be a situation with Crowell being the leader and having a new guy come in somewhere either inside or outside to replace either Crowell if he moves over or Baker if he leaves and then Ellison would take Spikes spot.

At this point, our draft picks in round one are either Alan Branch, Glenn Dorsey, Patrick Willis or Lawrence Timmons, possibly Okoye as you mentioned, but I don't know if he is worth the 12th overall pick yet.

Rob S
01-09-2007, 08:29 PM
You make a good case Toon, as always. However, I think Fletcher will be gone for a variety of reasons, not just the run defense you mentioned. He seemed to want out of Buffalo, we are generally stingy, and we have shown a preference to younger players under the new regime. This leads me to believe that Clements will be the man returning. So that leaves a hole at MLB. You said to slide TKO over, but it is possible that we may even cut him too. Our LB are just crazy now. I think it is a crazy situation and we will have to wait until it is resolved to have a clearer idea of what the Bills will target.

As far as DT goes, I dont think Marv will take one. Marv is a big DL guy, so it is possible, but I think he likes the guys he brought in, and want to stay true to the system with both DT being fast, quick types (I dont agree, byt thats what I see happening). I do think DE is a possibility. I dont know how your mock shakes out, but if you have Gaines Adams or Jamaal Anderson or Moses falling to 12, I would think Marv would take them. He makes multiple references in his book regarding his love of DE's and how they are the most critical defensive position.

As far as out top options for our pick ( from marv's perspective, not mine), I think we are looking at:

1. DE( If one of the big three falls, I bet Marv jumps on them)
2. MLB(I am convinced Fletch is gone, and TKO is not a sure thing)
3. OLB (Lower than MLB because TKO has a better chance of staying than Fletch)
4. OG (resigning Gandy would be a good move, but we still need one more as Preston is a backup)
5CB (If Clements walks this moves up, but we need depth regardless)

Just my 2 cents.

Also, I would like to get your opinion on McGahee Toonster. I think he doesn't deserve a big contract at all, and think we may be better off looking elsewhere after his contract expires.

DollarBill3181
01-09-2007, 09:41 PM
In house: Dont reoffer Fletcher or Clements ones too old ones too much, maybe release spikes, but usually it takes over a year to recov from achilles, so i woudl have no problem keepin him, but with money its a thought, anyway....

ReSign: Greer, Hargrove, Kelsay, Preston, Sheltin, Wire, A-train or S.Williams
*Possibly let Kelsay go and make a play for Freeney? (there is cap room to get a nice DE tandum in Schobel/Freeney)
........A.Davis, T.Anderson, M.Gandy we can do without

Free Agency:
OG: sign one or two (Steinbech out there, a couple other decent guys are Chris Gray, Todd Steuisee, Reuben Brown...yes cheaper lol, etc.)
OT: sign a compliment to Peters, a few FAs are Leonard Davis, Jon Stitchencomb, etc.
LB: Brandon Short, Kawaika Mitchell, Cato June, Lance Briggs, Boss Bailey are a few guys that could help give us depth and overall help.
CB: Roderick Hood (him with McGee and Youboty is fine as a CB trio), David Macklin, Ricky Manning Jr., Asante Samuel, Phillipp Buchanon, Ahmad Carroll are a few to add help (maybe sign a couple cheaper ones, that takes out Samuel)

Draft:
Round 1:
WR - depends on what we fix in Free Agency, if we take care of enough starting holes, which is MLB, CB, and at least 2 OL, then grab Dwayne Jarrett to help bolster the offense.
LB - IF a couple holes remain then Pat Willis (Ole Miss-MLB) is your best best at LB, maybe Paul Posluszny (PennSt-OLB/MLB).
CB - If we didnt getta corner then LEon Hall (Mich) or Darell Revis would mayeb be a good call....i think a sleeper is Aaron Ross (Tex), trading down to get a 2nd or 3rd round pick would be nice.
OL- i hate grabbing OL rd1, so overpriced, you can get much better value in rd 2 or 3 (or even a vet FA).

Round 2:
OT/OG - so many good possibilities here to grab a good young hog for a decent price, a few would be OT's Ryan Harris (ND), Doug Free (N.I.) or OG's Ben Grubbs (Aub), Manuel Ramirez (TT).
LB - Some 2nd rd LB potential includes...OLB's Earl Everett (FL) or Rufus Alexander (OU)*stud* or at MLB H.B, Blades (Pitt)...........Alexander or Blades would be a steal here.
CB - I cant imagine Aaron Ross falling that far (thats why itd be better to trade dwon in rd 1 if we wanted him, or trade up from here, cause he'll go btwn here and #12, but he is #4 ranked CB behind Hall McCauley and Revis, but again i cant see him falling this far).....in that case there isnt too good of a 2nd rd option at CB as Fred Bennett (SoCar)is more of a 3rd rd type and he is worth the pick there, but could not be relied on with mcgee/youboty/him as a starting 3 trio.
FB - If we dont resign shelton Brian Leonard (Rutgers) would be a great pickup as he can block so well then be a good rec. back and run darn good too.

Round3:
CB - Fred Bennett (SoCar) a great pick ehre can be a viable CB to help us if we getta decent FA as well (him, a FA, mcgee, youbouty would make aup a fine CB core)
LB - Nate Harris (Louisville) would be a great MLB as he could possibly start week1, and that woudl be an immense gap to fill in round 3, if not start soo a med.FA could hold teh spot till hes ready, but nonetheless hes a viable future option at MLB, no OLB sticks out as a great pick here.
WR - Dallas Baker (FL), a bigger guy who coudl develop into a nice compliment splitend to Evans or at least turn into what Aiken was supposed to be. Steve Smith (USC) if we got a shifty smaller type, but i dotn reccomend as we have that already in reed and a better one in parrish.
OT - A few decent options here such as Chrsi Denman (FresnoSt) where Logan Mankins came outta, or Mike Otto (Purdue), as well as Chase Johnson (Wyoming) all are decent 3rd rd OTs

Day2: a DT we coudl use
Beyond that is anyones guess and really ahrd to tell depending on FA and Day1 Draft

Undrafted FA:
Chad Upshaw (TE-UB)...could help with TE depth and a possible diamond in teh rough, Matt Trannonn (WR-MichSt)....tall (6'6) guy that could also help as a WR if we dont address it sooner.

QB in draft - I dont mind grabbing a QB somewhere as Holocomb is no good to us anymroe and Nall's status is unknown to me, but i think Nall woudl bea good #2, as a #3 id rccomend a vet, but incase we woudl let go both Holocomb or Nall, or keep Nall and not getta FA a sugg for a QB pick 4 or beyond (cause tkaing oen erlier is obv not a option lol) a few noteable worthy late QBs are...
Chris LEak (FL)...prob day1 after BCS Title, Tyler Palko (Pitt)...another probable day1 guy but who knows, Jordan Palmer (UTEP)...Carson's bro, but again prob a day1 guy.
2 guys that will def go late in day2 are Jared Zabransky (BoiseSt) and Drew Tate (Iowa) both have great intangibles and decent physical tools, could be gems for teh prac squad at least if we gotta vet to be our 2 or 3.

RB in draft: idk where we might grab one and i didnt include it anywhere there, but as a future guy with Willis leaving there are a few options 3 and beyond (cause rd2 would be a waste to grab one so early with other needs, possibly 3 even)
4 stick out to me as good day2 picks who coudl eb ncie sleepers:
Garrett Wolfe (North Ill.) - great speed and shifty good ahnds did well vs Mich and OhioSt.....another is Lorenzo Booker (FlaSt), Tyrone Moss (MiaFL), and Selvin Young (Tex), bigtiem big school RBs that go late arent alwasy too abd to grab late.



My dream situation:
FA: L.Davis OT, E.Steinbach OG, R.Hood CB
DRAFT:
1-Dwayne Jarrett - WR, USC - Needs at OL, LB, and CB are met, now get that offense going.
2-H.B. Blades - MLB, Pitt - Fills that MLB hole and with the MLB FA we get we still have decent depth too.
3-Fred Bennett - CB, SoCar - Ko Simpson has a teammate (as we have the OhioSt Whinter/Youboty thing as well lol)
Day2 Picks - Get OL depth behind the FAs we signed, and a DT

My realistic situation:
FA: Sign one big OL (OG, E.Steinbach), and get a lesser of another (OT),a s well as a decend CB, if not a Rod Hood type, then possib Phil Buchanon or some1 idk
1 - Pat Willis(OleMiss) OR Paul Posluszny(PennSt) - Fills MLB hole.
2 - Doug Free, OT (N.I.)
3 - Fred Bennett - still, get him here, lol
Day2 - a DT somewhere

...well, thats my take at least....oh and forgive teh sp errors it was alot to type, lol

Space Ghost
01-09-2007, 09:51 PM
Get a damn spell check, mine highlights mistakes whenever I make them right away, I ignore them half the time though :P

Pretty much you wrote general ideas that are way to vague to criticize so I will aplaud your efforts, should get easier later in the off season and closer to the draft, I hope at least :S

Rob S
01-09-2007, 10:03 PM
download Firefox, they have a spell checker built in.

SuperMcGee
01-09-2007, 10:04 PM
LB could easily not be a top need, but I still enjoy me some Posluszny. I think he can become a good size improvement over what Fletcher was and be much better in coverage. Not perfect for the bigger run stopper you described but I think he can get close enough to it for our tastes and become the best overall pick for what we may be looking for at LB

And also I wouldn't mind going after a DT at all. I've stated countless times that I basically flat out hate our DTs. I've just doubted its likelihood, though I didn't like McCargo as a prospect and was less than impressed from what I saw from him early in the year. I wouldn't mind bringing in someone new. Okoye could be golden for us, if our organization so feels like going after DT again

toonsterwu
01-10-2007, 04:55 AM
Toonster, I appreciate the post in here and I am one of the few Bills fans on here who wnat to add a defensive tackle again in round one this year, however I would much rather Glenn Dorsey if/when he declares over Amobi Okoye, that is for sure, and I would take Branch in a heart beat (I know all you haters say he is too big but size doesn't matter at all, it is what you do with that size, Urlacher is a giant LB for a cover-2 yet he is one of the best cover-2 middle linebackers ever).

Personally, I don't want a linebacker in round one, but I can see how it is a possibility and it would be my second choice behind defensive tackle and until Dorsey declares it is number one right now. I am expecting Baker to be gone and we either a) draft a middle linebacker in the first four rounds or b) shift Crowell over and draft depth in rounds four-seven as backups, that gives us either: Crowell/New Kid/Spikes or Ellison/Crowell/Spikes. There is also a possibility that both Spikes and Fletcher are gone next year, even though I can't see Spikes getting cut, some guys on here think he will be for some reasons; so there could be a situation with Crowell being the leader and having a new guy come in somewhere either inside or outside to replace either Crowell if he moves over or Baker if he leaves and then Ellison would take Spikes spot.

At this point, our draft picks in round one are either Alan Branch, Glenn Dorsey, Patrick Willis or Lawrence Timmons, possibly Okoye as you mentioned, but I don't know if he is worth the 12th overall pick yet.

Oh, I should've noted some small things about what the rough copy of my draft looked like ... namely, Glenn Dorsey was out and Alan Branch were gone at DT. I think Alan Branch would be a solid fit for the role. Think what Detroit will do with Shaun Rogers next year basically, at the NT role next to Cory Redding. And I do agree that it's hard to tell if Okoye will work his way up. Mixed schools of thought on it right now, it seems.

toonsterwu
01-10-2007, 05:02 AM
You make a good case Toon, as always. However, I think Fletcher will be gone for a variety of reasons, not just the run defense you mentioned. He seemed to want out of Buffalo, we are generally stingy, and we have shown a preference to younger players under the new regime. This leads me to believe that Clements will be the man returning. So that leaves a hole at MLB. You said to slide TKO over, but it is possible that we may even cut him too. Our LB are just crazy now. I think it is a crazy situation and we will have to wait until it is resolved to have a clearer idea of what the Bills will target.

As far as DT goes, I dont think Marv will take one. Marv is a big DL guy, so it is possible, but I think he likes the guys he brought in, and want to stay true to the system with both DT being fast, quick types (I dont agree, byt thats what I see happening). I do think DE is a possibility. I dont know how your mock shakes out, but if you have Gaines Adams or Jamaal Anderson or Moses falling to 12, I would think Marv would take them. He makes multiple references in his book regarding his love of DE's and how they are the most critical defensive position.

As far as out top options for our pick ( from marv's perspective, not mine), I think we are looking at:

1. DE( If one of the big three falls, I bet Marv jumps on them)
2. MLB(I am convinced Fletch is gone, and TKO is not a sure thing)
3. OLB (Lower than MLB because TKO has a better chance of staying than Fletch)
4. OG (resigning Gandy would be a good move, but we still need one more as Preston is a backup)
5CB (If Clements walks this moves up, but we need depth regardless)

Just my 2 cents.

Also, I would like to get your opinion on McGahee Toonster. I think he doesn't deserve a big contract at all, and think we may be better off looking elsewhere after his contract expires.

I am a huge fan of McGahee and I'm a huge believer that for another year that Losman needs a strong run game to lean on. But it does depend on what Willis wants. If he wants elite RB money, it's tough to say yes to that right now, it's tough to say yes to, as he's been very average at times (and very good at other times). Granted, that's been in difficult circumstances on occasion (with the offensive issues that have been there). I can't say I've followed closely, but if he's looking elite money, I'd say no.

While Rosenhaus has the media persona, I don't think he's going to advise Willis to hold out too long considering Willis' own medical history and the circumstances. Thus, I'd hold firm against giving him "elite" money and make him play out this year. That said, in the midrounds, a RB certainly should be a thought to prepare oneself for future issues. If McGahee is on the market, he would draw a fair amount of interest, I think.

thule
01-10-2007, 05:49 AM
You make a good case Toon, as always. However, I think Fletcher will be gone for a variety of reasons, not just the run defense you mentioned. He seemed to want out of Buffalo, we are generally stingy, and we have shown a preference to younger players under the new regime. This leads me to believe that Clements will be the man returning. So that leaves a hole at MLB. You said to slide TKO over, but it is possible that we may even cut him too. Our LB are just crazy now. I think it is a crazy situation and we will have to wait until it is resolved to have a clearer idea of what the Bills will target.

As far as DT goes, I dont think Marv will take one. Marv is a big DL guy, so it is possible, but I think he likes the guys he brought in, and want to stay true to the system with both DT being fast, quick types (I dont agree, byt thats what I see happening). I do think DE is a possibility. I dont know how your mock shakes out, but if you have Gaines Adams or Jamaal Anderson or Moses falling to 12, I would think Marv would take them. He makes multiple references in his book regarding his love of DE's and how they are the most critical defensive position.

As far as out top options for our pick ( from marv's perspective, not mine), I think we are looking at:

1. DE( If one of the big three falls, I bet Marv jumps on them)
2. MLB(I am convinced Fletch is gone, and TKO is not a sure thing)
3. OLB (Lower than MLB because TKO has a better chance of staying than Fletch)
4. OG (resigning Gandy would be a good move, but we still need one more as Preston is a backup)
5CB (If Clements walks this moves up, but we need depth regardless)

Just my 2 cents.

Also, I would like to get your opinion on McGahee Toonster. I think he doesn't deserve a big contract at all, and think we may be better off looking elsewhere after his contract expires.

I am a huge fan of McGahee and I'm a huge believer that for another year that Losman needs a strong run game to lean on. But it does depend on what Willis wants. If he wants elite RB money, it's tough to say yes to that right now, it's tough to say yes to, as he's been very average at times (and very good at other times). Granted, that's been in difficult circumstances on occasion (with the offensive issues that have been there). I can't say I've followed closely, but if he's looking elite money, I'd say no.

While Rosenhaus has the media persona, I don't think he's going to advise Willis to hold out too long considering Willis' own medical history and the circumstances. Thus, I'd hold firm against giving him "elite" money and make him play out this year. That said, in the midrounds, a RB certainly should be a thought to prepare oneself for future issues. If McGahee is on the market, he would draw a fair amount of interest, I think.

Going after a RB in the mid-round is not only a good insurance policy on McGahee but also good in terms of leverage. They can use the younger back as leverage to show McGahee that he isn't necesarily a need.

DollarBill3181
01-10-2007, 01:54 PM
LB could easily not be a top need, but I still enjoy me some Posluszny. I think he can become a good size improvement over what Fletcher was and be much better in coverage. Not perfect for the bigger run stopper you described but I think he can get close enough to it for our tastes and become the best overall pick for what we may be looking for at LB

And also I wouldn't mind going after a DT at all. I've stated countless times that I basically flat out hate our DTs. I've just doubted its likelihood, though I didn't like McCargo as a prospect and was less than impressed from what I saw from him early in the year. I wouldn't mind bringing in someone new. Okoye could be golden for us, if our organization so feels like going after DT again

Some hate Triplett as a signing as well, saying that was a waste of money...
And then McCargo to a further extent....is not releaseable due to the contract we'd eat up - plus we barely saw anything outta him due to the inj.
Tripplett and McCargo may not be every1s top option, including me, but we're stuck with them as our best two (at least most paid) these no viable way to pay another DT money, its just poor business and team management......let Jauron coach them up, not scrap them both after one year because there WAY WAY MORE NEEDS THAN DT lol (OL, CB, LB, WR to name a few).

Rob S
01-10-2007, 03:44 PM
Great blog entry from Bad Lands Meanie of the BB.com message boards

The Ball Burglar Rap Sheet
BadLandsMeanie Thinks About The Draft and the Offseason [Poor] [Poor] [Fair] [Fair] [Average] [Average] [Good] [Good] [Excellent] [Excellent]
Hello Brother and Sister Bills fans! I have a few posts in me. This one will be about where we stand and where we might go with respect to the draft, with a couple other things tossed in. There isn't that much Bills related to read lately so this will be long, but hopefully interesting. Lots of it is just my opinion but there are enough facts in it I think to make it worth reading.

I want us Bills fans to be known around the NFL for something besides being the plucky fans of a losing team. I want us to be known as the most intense fans of all. I think if we put a cash bounty on the football, that will help our reputation. Nobody does that, and it seems pretty crazy to me. The fans in Buffalo pay cash when the defense takes the ball away. Is it just me who thinks that would be cool?

Do this, ok? Get a mayo jar and put a dollar a week in it. Just a buck's worth of your spare change. Talk a couple of your friends into doing it. Get your parents to do it. Then next year at the start of the season you will have plenty of money to put your share of the bounty on the football, and you won't hardly notice the missing change at all.

What will get noticed if we actually get going and do this is the big amount of the bounty we all come up with. The whole NFL will notice it if we do it. But it starts with each one of us. Be a Ball Burglar, ok? Just do it. Ok? Yes?

The more I have been thinking about the coming off-season, the more I have been stumped about how many areas we have needs in. It seems like we dodged quite a few bullets, and a LOT went well for us.

JP is an NFL caliber QB.
Lee Evans is a legit #1 Receiver
Jason Peters is a legit, and maybe elite, NFL Left Tackle
Donte Whitner can play
A whole crop of our rookies can play. We had 5 starting on defense.
Jauron turned the team around and it looks like we have a very solid coaching staff
Marv Levy is looking like a superb GM. We had a great draft and he hired a good coach and there is stability and no turmoil at One Bills Drive.

And there is more. A lot went well.

So looking at all of that, I wondered how it is that we now have issues with both the Defensive and Offensive lines, our linebacking corps, and maybe at cornerback. Marv Levy says that to win you must be able to run and stop the run. We can't do either one well.

Take the new "penetrating" defensive line scheme. At the start of the season, the coaches said the idea was to rotate guys, and as the game wore on, the opposing offense would wear down.

Well, that was true. I watched and on the sidelines those other teams were exhausted. Unfortunately it was from running all day. Travis Henry had to be carried back to the airplane. 140 yards or so a game teams averaged against us.

We put a lot in the bucket, but it's still half full. Part of that is free agency. We will likely lose some good guys this offseason. But I also looked back at our draft.

Now since part of what I want to do here is to try and predict what will happen for us come draft day, I will review some of Marv Levy's beliefs based on his book. A lot has changed in how you build a team since he was in Kansas City, and with the Bills, because of free agency. But his core beliefs likely have not changed since they were based on his lifetime of experience and he was already 300 years old when he wrote his book.

Marv Levy has always believed that defense wins championships. He says that offenses have good days and bad days, but defenses tend to play more consistantly. If you have a bad defense they will play badly, and if you have a good defense you can count on them to play well week after week. Offenses, take the Colts for a recent example, can be shut down.

Marv wrote that when he got to Kansas City as head coach, one could see the root of thier problems in their draft. They had for years used the great bulk of their first and higher round picks on offensive players.

So now, let me look with you at our 4 drafts from 2002-2005, keeping in mind my question about why our bucket is still half empty, and Marv's idea that you get in trouble by focusing on offense with your draft.

Nex to each player's name I will put some letter keys. O= Offense. D=Defense. N= Nonfactor. Someone who in my mind has had little impact on the team. X=no longer on the team.

2005

2 Roscoe Parrish O
3 Kevin Everett O, N
4 Duke Preston O
5 Eric King X
6 Justin Geisinger X
7 Lionel Gates X

2004

1 Lee Evans O
1 J.P. Losman O
3 Tim Anderson Soon to be X
4 Tim Euhus X
7 Dylan McFarland X
7 Jonathan Smith X

2003

1 Willis McGahee O
2 Chris Kelsay D
3 Angelo Crowell D
4 Terrence McGee D
4 Sam Aiken O
5 Ben Sobieski X
6 Lauvale Sape X
7 Mario Haggan D

2002

1 Mike Williams X
2 Josh Reed O
2 Ryan Denney D
3 Coy Wire D
5 Justin Bannan X
6 Kevin Thomas X
7 Mike Pucillo X
7 Rodney Wright X
7 Jarrett Ferguson X
7 Dominique Stevenson X

So when I look at that, my question about why our bucket is still half empty is answered. We have gotten close to nothing from our lower round draft picks. By and large we waited for them to develop and they never did. We did get some guys, most notably Jason Peters, from the ranks of the undrafted. But I don't think you can be a healthy NFL team when you nearly never get a good return on your lower round picks.

When Marv looked at that, I think he thought he knew why we were losing. The great bulk of all of our higher round draft picks were on offense.


So if I had been on my toes last year, I would have known what Marv would do in his first draft. He got to Kansas City and drafted defense. He got to Buffalo as coach and they drafted defense. Now he became GM here and ...



1 Donte Whitner D
1 John McCargo D
3 Ashton Youboty D
4 Ko Simpson D
5 Kyle Williams D
5 Brad Butler O,N
6 Keith Ellison D
7 Terrence Pennington O
7 Aaron Merz O,N

......we drafted defense big time. Also very noteworthy is that 5 of those players have started games. We got production from our lower round draft picks, and for some of them in their very first year. That is a drastic change from how things have been.

One reason I think that we got production from our guys so quickly is Marv's long time philosophy of bringing in smart players. He has always believed in that, but I think maybe in this new age, that practice can be even more important. Teams that have to wait a few years for their guys to learn enough to play in games will be at a big disadvantage. You can lose your drafted players after 3 or 4 years. If they spend 2 years of that on the bench learning, you lose half of what they might have contributed.

I think also that the defensive drafting trend will continue. I think they will have to talk Offensive Coordinator Steve Fairchild down off the Jumbotron again this year.

We have defensive line issues. We are likely to need linebackers. Our run defense was bad. And Nate Clements, who is a very funny guy by the way, might be leaving. Add to that Coach Jauron is a defensive minded coach, and I think we will see defensive players again this year in our top picks. I don't think Marv Levy will want to leave us with big problems on defense. That has never been they way he has operated.

There are other forces at work though. One is we will hopefully get McCargo back, healthy, and in better shape next year. So that could help.

Something else I found interesting was Ralph Wilson's comment after the Ravens game that poor JP was running for his life and we needed to get talent on the O-line to help him.

From my study of Marv, my guess is that from a football standpoint he would be content to let JP run for his life another year while he stoked up the defense. But Ralph Wilson is the boss, and no dummy about football either. So if Ralph wants O-line help that will factor in.

Another of Marv's maxims is "Offense sells tickets". So now Marv will have some internal tension as well. The Bills could do with selling a few more tickets. As GM he has an obligation to consider that aspect. He needs to think about exciting the fan base. A defensive lineman isn't likley to get people whipped up into a lather.

Heres' my guess about our draft. Somehow Marv will want to shore up our defense while hyping the offense to sell some tickets. I think Marv Will get a free agent Defensive Tackle. He will get a free agent offensive player and over-hype him to sell some tickets. Our first round pick will be the highest rated player available at Defensive End, Linebacker, or Cornerback. Obviously cornerback only if we can't keep Nate and Youboty doesn't look ready.

I think Marv will want a linebacker but it will depend on who they can get at our #12 spot. I am also looking for them to trade up back into the first round for another player just like we did last year. But my money says we will use our first round pick on a linebacker this year.

So maybe that leaves you asking, what about our offensive line?

My take on that is, when you negelect your offensive line for years and years. When you invest in low round draft picks as projects, and they do not turn out, you stick it to your team for years. And there is no way out of it. We will not have a dominant offensive line for years. That's the lesson I take from what has happened.

You have 3 linebackers. Two cornerbacks. One quarterback. Two Safties. Two Defensive tackles on the field at any given time. You can fix up those spots with one or two players.

The offensive line is five people who all have to work together as a unit. Offensive lineman also take a long time to develop. Even if you draft nothing but offensive linemen with your first round picks for five years, and they all turn out, by the time you get the line all set, one leaves in free agency. You can't draft nothing but O-linemen, but you have to keep after it and we did not. Not successfully anyway.

So I think we can't fix it in this offseason. We can maybe get one more guy in there to get a little more push in the run game, Chip away at fixing our line for the next few years. But the offensive line I think takes the most to put together because a team can not afford to pay for five top tier offensive free agent linemen.

So in my mind our O-line is better than it was. Next year it will hopefully be a little better still. But it won't be fixed up totally this year or maybe not even the year after that. I think Marv's legacy as GM will depend to a great degree on how well he and his staff can pick O-line sleepers to develop. We have seen something from Penningtion, and little from Mertz or Butler so far.
We can't afford to have them wither on the vine like our drafted project O-line guys did for the 4 years prior to Marv Levy.

Which brings me to Willis McGahee. I like Willis as player and a person. I think he is an explosive back. But I watch the tapes of the games and the man does not get holes to run through. If he was in Denver or someplace like that where he could use his vison to find and explode through the holes that develop, I think he would be a household name.

But he doesn't have holes like that, and he isn't going to get them any time soon. Meantime, he has been unable so far to adjust his style of running to be the sort of back to plunge through tiny holes and leverage his way through. Personally, I think he is too big for that. The runners I have seen up close who could do that, Thurman Thomas, Travis Henry, have been shorter and stout and compact. Hard to tip over. I don't think Willis can do that because I don't think he is built for that.

So in my mind we can not fix the line up to make holes for Willis before his contract here expires. His production next year probably will not be dazzling because of that. Somebody with a good running O-line, and a not so good running back will most likely be willing to pay a good penny for him when he hits free agency. We will not be willing to match it because to us he will not be worth it to us with our type of line.

So I think he will be leaving in free agency because we neglected our line for so long, we can't fix it fast enough, and he doesn't fit the style of back we need with a line like ours.

What interests me is what will Marv do? Say for some wild coincidence he sees things like I do. He might want to trade Willis this offseason to get something in return, instead of losing him for free after a tense year of Willis wanting an extension and the Bills not giving one.

That might make sense from one standpoint. But from the standpoint of selling some season tickets and advertising and luxury boxes, trading Willis away would anger a lot of people. Top a move like that off with letting Nate Clements go, and your ticket salesmen will have a high mountain to climb.

I hope Marv is talkative this offseason. He has often said to his players that winning football games is simple, but not easy.
Being general manager is niether simple or easy and I am looking forward to see what Marv Levy and his staff do this offseason. I hope he keeps us in the loop with what he is thinking.

Go Burglars! GO BILLS!!

DollarBill3181
01-10-2007, 07:50 PM
Get a damn spell check, mine highlights mistakes whenever I make them right away, I ignore them half the time though :P

Pretty much you wrote general ideas that are way to vague to criticize so I will aplaud your efforts, should get easier later in the off season and closer to the draft, I hope at least :S

i know idk why it didnt, and i didnt wanna check thats why i typed that in the end lol

its not that vague, jsut leaving options for different direction, but sa you said/noticed....it being so early its hard to take the 2nd and 3rd step before teh 1st, u no?

SuperMcGee
01-11-2007, 06:19 PM
OMG!!

THE TRIUMPHANT RETURN OF NONE OTHER THAN CHRIS DENNEY!!

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4568

Looks like its time to start watching NFL Europe

I predict he'll be the most prolific NFL Europe player ever and immediately step in as our #2

Rob S
01-11-2007, 06:35 PM
nice, good to see denney get a shot.

art vandelay
01-11-2007, 10:09 PM
I'd rather have Daunta Peterson :P .

SuperMcGee
01-11-2007, 10:12 PM
I'd rather have Daunta Peterson :P .

Blasphemy :evil:

Iamcanadian
01-11-2007, 11:20 PM
As I review many team sites they all talk about signing FA's. The truth is, that this will be one of the worst years for FA's leaving their original teams that has ever happened. Tennessee has the most cap money available to spend, it is estimated to be 40 million and the vast majority of NFL teams have in the neighbourhood of 20 million in unspent cap dollars. This is a result in a huge jump in cap dollars resulting from increased revenue from TV. Most teams easily have the money to retain any FA's they really want to sign.
Each team will make the choice whether or not to resign their FA's but don't expect many to change teams and those who do switch teams, will command unheard of dollars, making it pretty hard for a small market team like Buffalo to sign FA's.
For this year at least, any improvement will have to come from the draft.

essential
01-11-2007, 11:49 PM
now that jamaal anderson has declared, he is now on the top of my wish list for the 2007 nfl draft. okay ... calvin johnson is at the top, but jamaal anderson is on top of the reasonable list, heh.

in the tampa two, getting pressure on the QB is the number one priority, and prior to jamaal anderson declaring, patrick willis/lawrence timmons, was at the top of my list with a lot of you, but now i think jamaal anderson could be the simeon rice of our defense, and with schobel on the other side, good luck offensive tackles who play us.

i think tampa two style LBs can be had in the second/third round, and if anderson falls to twelve, i can't see not taking him. we can still grab earl everett or someone in the second.

unfortunalty, for anderson to fall to twelve, we'd need gaines adams to stay the number one ranked DE, which after kipers latest big board, he may not be. he has jamaal anderson at #5, and gaines adams at #9, overall.

although, i don't know how much kiper knows. on the bills forums someone posted a piece of the latest kiper live chat, and kiper said this:
Mel Kiper's live chat.

State College, PA: Where do you think Paul Posluzny will go in the draft?

Mel Kiper: (1:32 PM ET ) The OLB is very weak this year, which helps him. I think second round is probable at worst third round.

it we could get Pos in the second, i would be very happy, but i think he's a sure fire first rounder, and have no idea what kiper is talking about.

i want a OG in free agency, and defense in the draft, unless a stud o-line falls to us (joe thomas), or a stud receiver (calvin johnson in the first, or sidney rice in the second), all three of which are very unlikey.

anyway, would anyone else take anderson over patrick willis/lawrence timmons, or do you all feel that LB is the priority?

art vandelay
01-12-2007, 06:46 AM
Anderson is really not a "pure" pass rusher, he is more of a complete DE. Plus, we have good DE's. We don't need to spend a 1st Rounder on him.

Schobel
Kelsay
Hargrove
Denney

Even if we lose Kelsay in FA, we still have 2 good starters and 1 good backup.

art vandelay
01-12-2007, 09:32 AM
Gonzo is the perfect WR for us.

I'm done :lol:

Leon Sandcastle
01-12-2007, 11:58 AM
Assuming we don't spend a 1st on a WR which is probably a good assumption we can really address our #2 reciever in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

Dwayne Bowe, Anthony Gonzalez, Robert Meachem, Sidney Rice could all be there when we're picking.

SuperMcGee
01-12-2007, 07:17 PM
Chris Denney just doesn't stop! Two stories in two days, and I couldn't be happier

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=4569