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jCut
10-26-2011, 12:36 PM
That's fair enough.

The thing about the offense is this: if we are dead set on the run - dropback playaction - punt routine then we might as well bring someone else in. I don't see Tebow ever developing into a great dropback passer.

Tebow is made for the spread. If you want him under center, then build in the rollouts and bootlegs to go with the handoffs. Jake Plummer wasn't much of a dropback passer, but Shanahan installed/called plays that made the most of his strengths. Fox and Co need to take a page from that book, even if it puts them outside their comfort zone.

Totally agree. They need to take a page out of Carolina's offensive playbook. Tebow cannot succeed in Orton's offense. GET CREATIVE PEOPLE

Diehard
10-27-2011, 09:47 AM
i don't know what we need that would make this offense more effective for tebow to... do what he does. we need a rb, if we're going to run fox's offense. moreno is a 3rd down back, on his best day, and mcgahee shouldn't be a #1 rb.

An upgrade at RB is almost mandatory, regardless of who is under center. McGahee's relative success should indicate what kind of RB we need - strong with the vision/patience to read blocks.

In terms of helping Tebow, it's play selection more than personnel. The wide open version of our current offense is a great fit, it's just a matter of installing those plays. I assume that was McD's plan before everything went to hell.

the defense is... getting there. i think it's clear the team needs cb help. and more talent at dt.

Xanders was on 104.3 and he mentioned the need for CB, either through the draft or a younger guy in FA. Another DT would be nice as well.

jCut
10-27-2011, 11:15 AM
Another concern of mine is DE. Elvis, it seems, cannot be counted on anymore to stay healthy. He has been a shadow of himself this season, due to injuries. If Elvis can eventually return to form, I think it should be as a third-down pass-rushing specialist. And I think we've finally learned this year that Ayers simply cannot play. I think we need two base-formation DEs that are stout against the run.

Diehard
10-27-2011, 01:50 PM
Another concern of mine is DE. Elvis, it seems, cannot be counted on anymore to stay healthy.

Sadly, this is true. I've been somewhat deluding myself that he just needs that opportunity to get healthy and then we'll have the twin terrors we need on defense. Then the next injury happens...

Champ isn't entirely reliable either. When those two were both out, it was a huge chunk of our salary just watching from the sidelines. Something needs to be done about that.

And I think we've finally learned this year that Ayers simply cannot play.

I don't agree with that. He's solid at strongside DE. Yeah, he's not flashy and won't get a lot of sacks, but that's not the role he's asked to play. Was he worth a 1st rounder? Nope. But he can still contribute.

jCut
10-30-2011, 12:47 AM
I guess it's just the disappointment in spending a 1st round pick on a "serviceable rotation guy". Especially considering he was known as a guy who lived behind the opponent's line of scrimmage in college. Maybe saying he can't play was harsh, but I still think we could do better.

Jimmy
10-30-2011, 06:58 PM
We wanted Tebow to play to at least find out if he could play well. I don't need to see anymore, regardless of the fact that Tebow's barely gotten a chance. For all I care, we can go back to Orton, Quinn or Weber.


Counter arguments?

jCut
10-30-2011, 09:49 PM
It's one thing to do well when you're replacing somebody at the end of a game and the defense doesn't have a game-plan against you. It's quite another thing to do well when a defense has a week to prepare, game-film to study, etc. The luster on Tebow is starting to wear. I wonder if they give Quinn a chance if there's another Timmy implosion next week.

Jimmy
10-30-2011, 11:10 PM
I wonder if they give Quinn a chance if there's another Timmy implosion next week.

Quinn will never start as long as Orton is under contract. The entire roster knows that Orton is far superior to Quinn, and Fox would instantly loose the locker room playing anybody but TT or Orton.

With Tebow, you could at least play the "It-Factor" / "winner" card when starting him over Orton.

Quinn... offers nothing. No intangibles, no mega-work ethic, no upside.

Tebow will have one more chance versus Oakland in my opinion. Somewhere in the near future, he will get demoted, and Orton will step back in.

Then, we will have to watch Orton play his average ass off just so he can empty his locker out, take a dump in it, and cash in during FA, where Seattle will pay him Whitehurst money to be a poor man's Matt Hasselbeck.

Jimmy
10-31-2011, 09:16 AM
nope. i'm pretty sure tebow's exactly who i thought he was. terrible passer. poor decision maker. 3-4 MORE years off from actually being able to play the position well. just watching him, these aren't minor issues. he has the worst footwork of any qb i've ever seen play in an actual nfl game. his arm motion may have actually gotten worse. due to those, he rarely gets a ball anywhere near a receiver, let alone makes it catchable. his arm is absurdly weak, which i think comes down a little bit to footwork again, but even then, he doesn't have a cannon. things started to go poorly, and the leadership facade vanished.

all that said? i'd rather have tebow out there sucking at qb than orton or quinn. at least with tebow playing, we'll know exactly what we have going into the offseason. we already know that orton is generally completely mediocre and that quinn is the worst qb in nfl history.

what's worse is that we'll be faced with a choice between like, landry jones and griffen, and i'm not sure i want either.

I will say this... There is a glimmer of hope, albiet one that is really just me trying shed a little hope on everyone.

If there is any higher up in the NFL willing to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade to get Luck, it is Elway. His career began (and was formed) when the Denver Broncos emptied ship, trading QB Mark Herrmann, rights to OL Chris Hinton and a first-round pick (OG Ron Solt) in the 1985 draft on May 2, 1983.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying we will alwaysbe the favorite of 32 teams to make a trade up like that as long as Elway is on board... until Luck is taken off the board this April by another team.

J-Mike88
10-31-2011, 02:40 PM
I will say this... There is a glimmer of hope, albiet one that is really just me trying shed a little hope on everyone.

If there is any higher up in the NFL willing to pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade to get Luck, it is Elway. His career began (and was formed) when the Denver Broncos emptied ship, trading QB Mark Herrmann, rights to OL Chris Hinton and a first-round pick (OG Ron Solt) in the 1985 draft on May 2, 1983.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, I'm just saying we will alwaysbe the favorite of 32 teams to make a trade up like that as long as Elway is on board... until Luck is taken off the board this April by another team.
For that to happen, you really want the Rams with Sam Bradford, to get that pick.
Because Miami needs Luck so badly, and I feel there's a 50-50 chance Peyton is done, so Indy needs him too.

I love Tebow and defend him all the time.
He's a great competitor, athlete, person. The best. And a winner.

But as an NFL QB, he's the worst passer of the football I've seen throw the ball ever, and that includes halfback-options.
That's something that can't and won't be fixed.

I personally wonder if he could be made into a new thing like an H-back/fullback who throws occasional passes. Not sure.

Sidenote, my buddy was talking to Tony Scheffler last night, and he said he was booed to start the game there yesterday, but they chanted his name by games-end.
I feel like Bronco fans should sue Josh McDaniels because he flatout ruined that team from Shef to Cutler to Marshall.

Timbathia
10-31-2011, 06:47 PM
I feel like Bronco fans should sue Josh McDaniels because he flatout ruined that team from Shef to Cutler to Marshall.

You know what, most Broncos fans I know do not think the Broncos were ruined by getting rid of those guys. Cutler is not an elite QB and Marshall is a complete tool. Talented sure, but they have had huge issues since leaving and in many ways we are better off without them. I liked Schef, but he isnt the reason we are ruined, or even Hillis for that matter. All of these guys are better players than most of what we have now, but none are elite.

What has ruined us is what with McDaniels did with the bounty of picks we got from the Cutler and Marshall trades.

jCut
10-31-2011, 08:01 PM
You know what, most Broncos fans I know do not think the Broncos were ruined by getting rid of those guys. Cutler is not an elite QB and Marshall is a complete tool. Talented sure, but they have had huge issues since leaving and in many ways we are better off without them. I liked Schef, but he isnt the reason we are ruined, or even Hillis for that matter. All of these guys are better players than most of what we have now, but none are elite.

You are full of it if you think we are better off without them. We had one of the top offenses in all the league. Yeah we weren't perfect, but if you added a solid defense to compliment the offense, we would've been a playoff team for years to come. Now look at us, and look how far we've fallen.. I actually miss being 8-8.

Timbathia
10-31-2011, 08:41 PM
You are full of it if you think we are better off without them. We had one of the top offenses in all the league. Yeah we weren't perfect, but if you added a solid defense to compliment the offense, we would've been a playoff team for years to come. Now look at us, and look how far we've fallen.. I actually miss being 8-8.

I said in many ways we are better off, based on their on and off the field flaws. Maybe I should have said in some ways. This has nothing to do with how good the offense is now compared to Shanny's last year. Obviously it is worse. However, if the picks we got in return were used well, then the trades could easily have made us a better team.

Diehard
10-31-2011, 10:59 PM
Touching on various points made in the above posts:

1. Tebow is done. They aren't going to make it work for him and he's not a good enough QB to compensate for the questionable scheme fit.

2. The individual moves made by McD were questionable, but often defensible. However, in combination they were the death blow to the team. Stuff like trading Cutler for picks when you knew you weren't well enough prepared for the draft is pretty inexcusable.

3. Any blockbuster trade for Luck would be a ******* farce. The team is **** overall, so you burn your war chest to bring in a QB? You don't have the other pieces in place already and you also won't have the picks to build around him. ******* genius. If the team does this I'm burning my Broncos gear and giving up on football.

The thing that bothers me about #3 is that I already get the feeling that this season doesn't matter much to the powers-that-be because they don't have "their guy" yet. I don't see them building toward anything this season. It seems like they're just kinda going through the motions waiting for next year. Of course, they're still quite happy to take your money to come to games where the team isn't going to be competitive.

jth1331
11-01-2011, 09:09 AM
sorry to double post, but i don't want to edit the last one again and go off on another tangent. as far as the draft, let's say we're not getting barkley or luck (as i think we're all pretty much in agreement that tebow's not really our qb next year, for whatever reason). there isn't another player that's worth our pick at that point. i mean, kalil? i think we're doing ok at T these days. another diva wr? no thanks. i just hate the idea of taking a guy who isn't adrian peterson in the top 5-8, so i'm not all that interested in richardson. no dts. bleh. this is a terrible year to only sort of suck.

I think absolutely look at OT, however I don't know about taking one really high. Franklin is showing to me he can't be a RT in the league. He's getting abused. Beadles is also showing he's terrible at G. Put Franklin at G, and get a capable RT.
I honestly think right now, this team would look at drafting Landry Jones/Matt Barkley with their pick.
I agree with you on Richardson. We need a freakin RB that doesn't dance, but is he worth a top 10 pick? I don't think so. I would actually love Blackmon, but I don't think he'd be available.
I wish there was a stud DT worth taking. Right now, to me, we should look at QB or CB with the pick.

jCut
11-01-2011, 08:43 PM
sorry to double post, but i don't want to edit the last one again and go off on another tangent. as far as the draft, let's say we're not getting barkley or luck (as i think we're all pretty much in agreement that tebow's not really our qb next year, for whatever reason). there isn't another player that's worth our pick at that point. i mean, kalil? i think we're doing ok at T these days. another diva wr? no thanks. i just hate the idea of taking a guy who isn't adrian peterson in the top 5-8, so i'm not all that interested in richardson. no dts. bleh. this is a terrible year to only sort of suck.

Landry Jones?

Punisher
11-02-2011, 12:18 PM
Please no Landry Jones. I'd rather get Tannehill or Foles in the later rounds than go all out for a risky spread QB from the Bob Stoops system.

Matt Barkley is very comparable to Eli Manning. I think if we draft Barkley we better be willing to wait for his transition to the NFL.

Andrew Luck is not going to happen. ugh

Punisher
11-02-2011, 01:22 PM
no point in getting a 2nd round (or later) qb. the odds of getting a real quarterback that late are basically nill and at that point, we'd be better off focusing back on the rest of the team. pick up some stopgap in free agency and hope we can find someone in next year's draft.

I agree completely. Me saying I rather we pick a QB in the later rounds instead of Landry in the 1st is just me showing how much I cringe at the thought of bringing Landry Jones in for our franchise QB.

Alot of good MLB's in this draft NJX. What would you think of picking up Luke Keuchly or Manti Teo in the top of the 2nd round if they slip?

Punisher
11-02-2011, 02:14 PM
If DJ does end up leaving us, I would love to pick up Zach Brown from North Carolina. Pairing him and Von Miller at both OLB spot's would give us the fastest bunch in the league.

That being said, we need a cog in the D-Line. I feel DaJohn Harris from USC would be a good fit in the 3rd round.

jCut
11-03-2011, 12:09 AM
If DJ does end up leaving us, I would love to pick up Zach Brown from North Carolina. Pairing him and Von Miller at both OLB spot's would give us the fastest bunch in the league.

I think LB is the least of our worries right now. We need reinforcements at just about every position and we just used two premium selections on LBs last year. No use in having the best LB core in the league when your defensive front, secondary and offense aren't worth a damn.

jCut
11-03-2011, 06:13 PM
see, i think that's flawed thinking. the team is bad enough we should basically be going BPA at every single pick. there's no position where we don't need talent, and i think (hypothetically, i know you're not directly suggesting it) that to pass on a top LB just to get the 15th best DT (or another alphonso smith) would be... a poor use of our resources. i'd much rather have the best lb corps in the league and a mediocre interior dline than have a decent set of lbers and a mediocre interior dline. *shrug*

Your points are well made, I just hope that situation doesn't arise.

Jimmy
11-06-2011, 06:41 PM
I was just about ready to analyze the hell out of this game and then I realized...

WE ARE ONE GAME OUT OF FIRST PLACE One. 1. Uno. Un.

How.

Diehard
11-06-2011, 07:38 PM
I was just about ready to analyze the hell out of this game and then I realized...

WE ARE ONE GAME OUT OF FIRST PLACE One. 1. Uno. Un.

How.

The AFC West is a mess right now. All the teams are very uneven with their play. Rivers is head and shoulders above the other QB's in terms of talent and experience, but he's also been self destructing in key situations.

I assume someone is eventually going to get their game in gear and start playing with consistency... but I have no idea which team it will be.

Diehard
11-06-2011, 08:18 PM
My take...

Overall

We trampled the Raiders defense into the ground and grabbed 3 INTs - that's a pretty good recipe for a great Sunday.

Offense

The first half wasn't pretty, but we wore them down and ran away with it at the end. That zone run inside handoff from the shotgun is a great play for both McGahee and Ball - they have the patience to move along the line to find the hole. Combined with the Tebow option from the same look and the Raiders were really back on their heels by the end of it.

Decker was the only receiver with his head in the game the whole time. Royal and D. Thomas both played poorly early, but improved as the game went on.

Up front, there was a serious lack of discipline by both the Broncos OL and the Raiders DL. Clady in particular had too many penalties and could've been called for more.

There was one series in the 3rd where the playcalling was excellent. They mixed up the run and pass, used the rollout and generally just kept the Raiders off balance. Unfortunately, they immediately went back to "Foxball" after scoring. It pains me with how conservative our coaching staff is on offense. That has to change.

Oh yeah, and that Tebow kid. Well, if he had gotten a little more help in the first half from some of the receivers and the OL, the game could've been a huge blowout. I think he improved a lot over the ugliness of last week.

Defense

I generally like what Dennis Allen is trying to do on defense. It's really a matter of players executing. There were too many plays where it was very close, but it always went the way of the opposing offense.

Von Miller was a one-man wrecking crew out there. He absolutely embarassed some of the Raider linemen. Ayers was solid as well. Dumervil had some sacks, but he still looks like he's trying to find his way back to game shape... I wonder if he'll ever live up to his huge contract.

Overall run defense was good. First down runs in particular - lots were stuffed at the line. Opposing RB's hurt us a lot more in the passing game.

The DB's had a mixed day. Getting 3 INTs is always nice, but coverage still needs to improve. Wilhite and Harris in particular both had their bad moments.

Special Teams

The flub on the punt was terrible, capping off what had been a pretty pathetic offensive series. Prater's miss from 40-something was also ugly.

On the flip side, the punting was generally for excellent yardage, coverage was good and, of course, Royal's PR for a TD sealed the game. After years of special teams futility under Shanahan, we actually look like we know what we are doing in this aspect of the game.

Other Comments

The Broncos and Raiders really, really hate each other. There was a lot of nastiness going on, especially up front.

Moreno looks like he can't hack it at this level. He clearly doesn't know how to read a block or hit the hole properly. With him, everything starts with a dance move. I wonder if they could give him a try at receiver.

I think Decker is really turning into a player. He and Tebow need to develop some chemistry... but when that happens, look out.

Diehard
11-06-2011, 08:55 PM
meh

We put up 38 points and 300 yards on the ground against the Raiders in their own house, and you bring out the "meh"?

For the love of god, njx, snap out of it!

lolz

Diehard
11-06-2011, 09:11 PM
to be just a little bit positive: i love mcgahee. i was completely wrong on that signing. he's been terrific since we stopped trying to act like moreno should play and he definitely makes the offense go.

McGahee is the anti-Moreno: a strong, patient runner who gets the most out of the blocking. The way he picks through the line then bursts into the open field is pretty much a clinic on how to play the RB position.

We need to look for someone with the same kind of profile in the draft.

jth1331
11-07-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm just happy to see an improvement in Tebow's game this week. That was a huge plus.

Punisher
11-08-2011, 11:45 AM
god. jay cutler. i hate you so much mcdaniels.

He would've developed better too had he stayed here. I know were in a bad situation, but I have got to imagine he misses Clady blocking his blindside.

vidae
11-13-2011, 03:09 PM
Good game you guys. Sorry njx.

Zycho32
11-13-2011, 03:32 PM
Whelp, I think Denver is out of the 'Suck for Luck' sweepstakes now, barring an epic second-half meltdown.

What do you guys think about that?

Jimmy
11-13-2011, 06:45 PM
First time since 2009 we've won back to back games. I'm just going to shut my mouth, enjoy it, and smile.

http://img.slate.com/media/50000/50535/DENVER_BRONCOS-salute.jpg

Diehard
11-13-2011, 08:09 PM
we've been out since our third victory. now we're out of the 'any other good qb' sweepstakes. which means we get another year of having the worst starting qb in the nfl.

I don't know about "worst". Definitely the most "unpolished", though...

At least he can throw the deep ball. Both Royal and Decker had their hands on deep strikes that they couldn't bring in, then they got it right with that second shot to Decker.

If we could hit a half dozen downfield strikes a game, our offense would be a tough matchup for a lot of teams. Much like that one game against the Jets under Shanahan's regime - Cutler throwing deep and Hillis pounding away inside was a hell of a combination.

Diehard
11-13-2011, 08:10 PM
i wish i could. but if KC had someone with a pulse at DC, we'd have lost that game.

They did make some adjustments. However, they straight up lost the battle in the trenches. Our OL hasn't been great pass blocking, but their zone blocking in the run game is starting to look really good.

Timbathia
11-13-2011, 11:43 PM
We have been ****** for years now. We just beat the Raiders and Chiefs back to back. I am only thinking happy thoughts until thursday.

vidae
11-14-2011, 12:23 AM
our o line did look good. but there's no reason the chiefs shouldn't have consistently had 9 on the LOS and dared us to throw other than a complete coaching failure on their part. we were barely hitting hitch passes. meanwhile that read option was just gashing them over and over. if i were in charge in KC, the DC wouldn't be coming back to work tomorrow.

I couldn't have said it better myself. None of the coaching staff would be coming back after these last two weeks.

Sorry to derail! Congrats again.

Diehard
11-14-2011, 01:36 AM
so the difference in your example as that cutler actually could throw. so team's had to respect it. i have no idea why team's are still acting like they need to care about tebow throwing.

Because when they don't, suddenly Decker is hauling in a 56 yarder for a score. Oakland got burnt as well last week with two 25+ yard TD strikes.

Yes, Tebow is a serious developmental project as a passer. But he flashes enough to make me think he could be the guy here. Christ, he's 3-1 as a starter on a team that was going nowhere fast with a crumbling Orton at the helm.

My main concern is that he's not really going to develop much as a passer if we only feed him 5-10 opportunities a game. Fox said this week they aim to go 60% run / 40% pass. Clearly, that was complete BS in light of the playcalling against the Chiefs, but I'd like to see them move towards that balance as I think we'd get a better sense of where Tebow is at by the end of the year.

MidwayMonster31
11-14-2011, 01:54 AM
I think McDaniels getting fired and the lockout happening were two things that really slowed Tebow's development. That throw to Decker was terrific, but the fact remains that he only attempted 8 passes so they don't really want to pass. The biggest issue with him so far has been his timing. The other issue is that he is a little too eager to run when pressure shows up, instead of keeping his eyes downfield. Both of these things are fixable with more reps and film study.
It doesn't look like the Broncos can get their hands on one of the top quarterbacks with their wins, so how Tebow progresses in practice and how he handles this offseason will go a long way for how good he can be.

Jimmy
11-15-2011, 08:07 PM
how many times are you really going to call a pass when tebow spends 94% of the game skipping the ball in front of his receiver's feet

saw this really ... just... blah... video posted on the Mane regarding that throw. (yeah, i started a new user name and cooled my jets over there)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d82425339/Fox-on-Tebow-s-smarts

Does Fox actually believe Tebow has the mental capability to make that decision? If he does, we are F****d.

Namy
11-17-2011, 03:48 PM
saw this really ... just... blah... video posted on the Mane regarding that throw. (yeah, i started a new user name and cooled my jets over there)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d82425339/Fox-on-Tebow-s-smarts

Does Fox actually believe Tebow has the mental capability to make that decision? If he does, we are F****d.

Dock his accuracy all you want, but I don't see anything to warrant judging his mental capability.

All QBs make mistakes, especially young QBs. NFL football IQ is gained through experience, which, quite frankly, Tebow doesn't have much of. Even as a Tebow supporter, I have my reservations about his accuracy for obvious reasons. But I have no doubt that he can make the smart play (e.g. he has 7 or 8 TDs to only 1 INT through 4.5 games).

Jimmy
11-17-2011, 04:31 PM
Dock his accuracy all you want, but I don't see anything to warrant judging his mental capability.

All QBs make mistakes, especially young QBs. NFL football IQ is gained through experience, which, quite frankly, Tebow doesn't have much of. Even as a Tebow supporter, I have my reservations about his accuracy for obvious reasons. But I have no doubt that he can make the smart play (e.g. he has 7 or 8 TDs to only 1 INT through 4.5 games).

You have to remember we're not asking him to make many tough/risky throws that would produce INTS. I don't know if that's smart play on his part, or just routine dink and dunk passes.

We're not asking him to go through triple progressions most of the time, and as of later, we're really not even asking him to throw the ball.

I'm assuming that most of that has to do with his ability to throw a football. I'd imagine that some of it has to do with what information he has retained thus far, his ability to read defenses, though. I'm no expert, I just get the sense that he isn't the most cerebral QB out there.

Hurricanes25
11-17-2011, 10:56 PM
Good game guys.

And yeah, Von Miller is a monster. Fantastic player.

Diehard
11-17-2011, 11:43 PM
i will be happy that we won this week. i will wait at least three, maybe four days to berate tebow (i should say, i'll try). i'm ecstatic that denver is winning.

and i ******* love von miller.

Holy ****. You're happy. I'm finding that a little disturbing...

Diehard
11-17-2011, 11:46 PM
does it help that i posted through the virtual equivalent of clenched teeth?

Yes, that makes me more comfortable with the situation... <grin>

Diehard
11-18-2011, 12:52 AM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/795018/ryan.gif

Priceless...

Namy
11-18-2011, 03:31 PM
iand i ******* love von miller.

Same! Marcel Dareus and Patrick Peterson will be great, but Miller is going to be SPECIAL. I'll gladly eat my words and say that Denver made an excellent draft pick!

Punisher
11-18-2011, 03:33 PM
And he is only going to get better guys :)

Namy
11-18-2011, 04:37 PM
If our defense continues to play as well as it has recently, how much will that change our drafting strategy after the season?

We may no longer be in contention for Trent Richardson, but if he somehow fell in our laps or if he was within reasonable reach, I don't see how we can pass up not getting him. He's one of the most gifted and polished college RBs I've watched, and with how much we like to run, that escalates the value of a strong RB.

McGahee and Moreno are serviceable--when healthy. Their durability concerns scare me more than "just a bit," though.

I know that we still have some huge gaps on defense, but we need to move the chains on offense. Having regular 3-and-outs hurts our defense just as much as not having enough talent. Hope you don't crucify me for saying this, njx!

Thoughts?

CT Bronco Fan
11-18-2011, 06:46 PM
Von Miller is a manbeast, that is all.

Timbathia
11-18-2011, 09:39 PM
From a drafting strategy i think you almost need to leave the offense alone. While Tebow is starter, the effectiveness of the offense will pretty much hinge on his development. I would hate the idea of drafting to "help" him in this offense, as their is no guarantee of how long it will last. The defense is showing signs of life, so lets turn it into a genuine top flight defense. Tebow magic depends on having a defense that can keep his ****** play in the game until the last quarter. Take a cb, take dt, or take a mlb.

Diehard
11-19-2011, 01:24 AM
If our defense continues to play as well as it has recently, how much will that change our drafting strategy after the season?

I think we'll still go BPA to some extent. If that means we end up adding another playmaker to the D, great.

We may no longer be in contention for Trent Richardson, but if he somehow fell in our laps or if he was within reasonable reach, I don't see how we can pass up not getting him.

There are enough teams needing offensive playmakers that he won't slide very far. I'd much prefer we avoid trading up, which is related to the BPA thing. There will be good players available at our draft spot if we aren't picky about addressing need. Really, our "need" is talent across the board.

Diehard
11-19-2011, 01:48 AM
From a drafting strategy i think you almost need to leave the offense alone. While Tebow is starter, the effectiveness of the offense will pretty much hinge on his development. I would hate the idea of drafting to "help" him in this offense, as their is no guarantee of how long it will last.

While I agree we shouldn't go too overboard on personnel decisions that are Tebow-specific, there are some more general offensive fits to consider. For example, our OL has been zone blocking (whether option or not) pretty well - that's something that should factor into the team's RB evaluations. Similarly, it's pretty clear the team wants to run, so skill position guys who are willing and able blockers become more valuable.

Jimmy
11-19-2011, 10:23 AM
I think we also need to discuss the re-emergence of this guy:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OvUx53kd8hM/TGb28jR2zbI/AAAAAAAAAXU/sYzcVC2jCRA/s1600/ElvisDumervil.jpg

In the last 3 weeks, Elvis has 3.5 sacks and a hefty number of QB pressures.

Von takes the cake for D-MVP, but I think he'd see more double teams if not for Elvis on the other side.

Just wanted to give some props to a guy who's really stepped it up the last 3 weeks.

Jimmy
11-22-2011, 03:28 PM
Well, we just released Kyle Orton and basically handed him to Kansas City or Chicago. Two teams we had much greater shots at beating when they were quarterbackless.

Timbathia
11-22-2011, 03:32 PM
Are we just being good guys and giving Orton (who has done nothing wrong in all of this) a chance to get a starting job (or am I missing something)? I like Orton and glad if he gets a chance somewhere else, however, this could come back and bite us depending on where he lands.

Jimmy
11-22-2011, 03:45 PM
Are we just being good guys and giving Orton (who has done nothing wrong in all of this) a chance to get a starting job (or am I missing something)? I like Orton and glad if he gets a chance somewhere else, however, this could come back and bite us depending on where he lands.

The ONLY bright side to releasing him now as opposed to later is that another team is much more likely to claim him now, and hence pick up his remaining $2.6 Million salary. That probably doesn't happen in week 15-17.

Jimmy
11-22-2011, 03:59 PM
When you really look at it, though.. even though this improves Kyle's life tenfold... We really kinda insulted the **** outta him by doing this now. Essentially telling him we aren't worried about him coming back and beating us down the road and all...

Namy
11-22-2011, 04:08 PM
Are we just being good guys and giving Orton (who has done nothing wrong in all of this) a chance to get a starting job (or am I missing something)? I like Orton and glad if he gets a chance somewhere else, however, this could come back and bite us depending on where he lands.

I'm not the slighest bit worried about Orton.

We were 1-4 with him and 4-1 with a QB who supposedly "can't pass a football accurately."

Diehard
11-22-2011, 05:01 PM
If someone picks him up off waivers, we save $2.5 million. Combined with the ugly string of injuries to QB's and I suspect the team felt this was a good business opportunity.

Diehard
11-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Well, we just released Kyle Orton and basically handed him to Kansas City or Chicago. Two teams we had much greater shots at beating when they were quarterbackless.

He may want to go to Chicago, but if he does the combination of poor OL and lack of mobility is going to be ugly.

KC is just throwing away money if they pick him up.

vidae
11-22-2011, 05:40 PM
The Chiefs have no shot at winning any more games, regardless of if we pick up Orton or not.

I didn't think I could be any more disgusted by the Chiefs, but they'd reach an all time new low if they claimed Orton. God I hate this team and the sick part of it is that I'll be a fan of theirs until the day that I die.

Stupid football. Change my username to njx2.

Jimmy
11-22-2011, 05:54 PM
The Pro Football Hall of Fame announced on Tuesday its semifinalists for induction into the 2012 class. Two former Denver Broncos reached the semifinal round for the first time in their eligibility periods: safety Steve Atwater and linebacker Karl Mecklenburg.

Atwater and Mecklenburg's first time on the semi-finalist list! Alright! (and Terrell Davis!)

The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

Steve Atwater, S – 1989-1998 Denver Broncos, 1999 New York Jets

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers

Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins

Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers

Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings

Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos

Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-2000 San Francisco 49ers

Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers

Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers

Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys

Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

Clay Matthews, LB – 1978-1993 Cleveland Browns, 1994-96 Atlanta Falcons

Karl Mecklenburg, LB – 1983-1994 Denver Broncos

Bill Parcells, Coach – 1983-1990 New York Giants, 1993-96 New England Patriots, 1997-99 New York Jets, 2003-06 Dallas Cowboys

Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins

Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs

Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers

Will Shields, G – 1993-2006 Kansas City Chiefs

Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League

Steve Tasker, ST/WR – 1985-86 Houston Oilers, 1986-1997 Buffalo Bills

Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams

Ron Wolf, Contributor – 1963-1974, 1978-1990 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders, 1975-77 Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 1990 New York Jets, 1991-2001 Green Bay Packers

George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

Jimmy
11-22-2011, 06:12 PM
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/photo_images/4029677/90208_Raiders_Broncos_Football.jpg

also, who shalt take the "C" that Kyle Orton has left vacated? I think we all know who it is going to be, but who would it be if "player-x" was out of the picture? (it has to be an offensive captain)

Diehard
11-23-2011, 12:16 AM
also, who shalt take the "C" that Kyle Orton has left vacated? I think we all know who it is going to be, but who would it be if "player-x" was out of the picture? (it has to be an offensive captain)

Of course it will be Tebow, as the starting QB has an inside track on a "C".

If it couldn't be Tebow, my vote would be for McGahee.

Namy
11-23-2011, 02:03 PM
wait, "supposedly"? he *can't* pass a football accurately.

We might be disagreeing over semantics.

Yes, Tim Tebow is wildly inconsistent at the moment, but could he develop his accuracy in the coming years? I believe so. He has the potential, even though he's not there yet.

Diehard
11-23-2011, 03:28 PM
http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=200024

McGahee gets the C.

shylo3716
11-27-2011, 11:58 AM
What are your thoughts on this heading into the draft?

"Lamar Miller RB Miami: Elway will be upset that they played their way out of a top QB however the Tebow era continues. Meanwhile he will go BPA to try and get himself some top talent on the team with which to build around."-Sweater-vest mafia

CT Bronco Fan
11-27-2011, 07:14 PM
Unreal. (10)

Jimmy
11-27-2011, 07:17 PM
What are your thoughts on this heading into the draft?

"Lamar Miller RB Miami: Elway will be upset that they played their way out of a top QB however the Tebow era continues. Meanwhile he will go BPA to try and get himself some top talent on the team with which to build around."-Sweater-vest mafia


I do not like the Clinton Portis comparisons Miller is getting. Both went to Miami, have similar builds, and are fast. After that, the comparisons end. Portis never relied that much on his speed. He was 10 times the pass blocker coming out of college.

Prospect wise, he is more of a Tatum Bell. Bell could outrace Portis, but he was a terrible blocker.
Miller and Bell share these traits:
They hit wide open holes and then, more often than not, go down on first contact against strong competition. Against weaker teams, Miller will break poor arm tackles and then go down.

He, like Bell, doesn't create much for himself. He will have a few highlight reel cutbacks here and there, but doesn't have "it" as a runner. He doesn't have a sixth sense of where to go next.

One thing I am not sold on is that Miller is this great blend of power and speed. Despite his weight, the dude just simply isn't a power back. He plays like he is 10 pounds lighter than he really is. (Like Tatum Bell) Doesn't use his 212 pounds as much as he should.

I know there are people who have a huge affinity for guys who can run 4.35's. And I know there's this affinity for guys like that who carry a bit of weight. That's really easy to get caught up in. When you look at the film, he isn't the same back as Chris Polk.

Also, Miller doesn't fit our current system as much as Chris Polk. He has little to no experience with the read option, and hey, he can't catch out of the backfield like Polk can. He's not going to be as good as Polk. Or Richardson. Or Cyrus Gray, if you want a speed guy. Or Robert Turbin. Or Vick Ballard.

Give me any of those guys any day over Lamar Miller. All will have better careers in the NFL.

Chris Polk should be our guy if he declares and is available round 2. Watch his highlights starting at 3:00. They are not the product of an o-line, they are self made.

LEafHF0IwqU

I'll admit, Trent Richardson is a hell of a back who packs more of a punch. This guy, however, has a lot of lateral quickness (in the mold of a Matt Forte), and can make defenders miss as they hone in on him.

Richardson will likely be gone by the time we pick, keep in mind that is why I revert to the next guy.

Polk is very good in space. He almost always makes the right decison, and has great balance, unlike another player we recently drafted (who was supposedly great in space).

He does not have "breakaway speed" going by the definition of the word. But if you give him open space, essentially any defender who can't run a 4.3 won't catch him, or they will have to at the very least dive at his feet from behind. You won't be catching up to him, like with Knowshon or perhaps McGahee.

What I like about this guy's highlights is that they aren't a product of his offensive line. You don't see him burst through any holes and run down the field untouched. That's the product of a great o-line. Almost all of his plays were self created. He just makes guys miss, or runs them over. That's the sign of a back that can do well in any system.

http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Chris-Polk-UW-vs.-Arizona.jpg

He played with Price in his last year at Washington, and Locker the year before. What this means is that he has PLENTY of experience with the read option, which we probably will run a bit next year. Not only is he quite good at it, but many of his best runs came out of the read.

Added bonus: Willis McGahee has crossed the dreaded 30 year old line for a runningback. Whether or not you agree with me that he only has a few years left, you have to agree with this: Fox loves having a 2nd RB worked in. The only reason it wasn't being done more is because after Slowshon went down, our reserves just weren't that great.

Polk is somewhere in between Deshaun Foster/DeAngelo Williams/Jonathan Stewart. All backs that Fox picked up on the first day of the NFL Draft. So if you think defense is a more pressing need, consider Fox's priorities.

Jimmy
11-27-2011, 07:44 PM
he seems to run... high. not like, chris brown high, but high. i dunno. and he seems slow out of his cuts. but i haven't paid a ton of attention to UW, so maybe that's way too knee jerk.

i'd rather get lamichael in the 2nd. mostly because i think he'd fit into our current offense really well and be a perfect change up from mcgahee.

I remember you saying that a bit back. I went on youtube (yeah... i know...) and watched his game highlights against tough competition. He's a great back, but we have to consider that

1. Fox likes big backs and he cannot lie, should be interesting to see if he is willing to compromise so we get a guy who fits the offense.
2. We only have 1 truly good running back right now.
3. That running back will be 31 next year.
4. At 180 whatever pounds, James may not fit the profile of "the heir apparent" to Willis.
5. All of this should be thrown out the window is James is the BPA when we come up to draft round 2.

Gay Ork Wang
11-27-2011, 08:11 PM
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/804962/tebow1.gif

I thought youd enjoy this incredibly well used spin

Jimmy
11-27-2011, 08:35 PM
fify

I thought youd enjoy this incredibly well earned win

10char

Diehard
11-27-2011, 09:05 PM
My feel good moment of the day was realizing that we've beaten all of our divisional rivals on their home turf this season. Also, seeing Tebow throw the ball a little better today was very encouraging.

Re: running back - we need one, no question about it. Who we get should depend on 1) value and 2) how the team feels about the tread on McGahee's tires. If they think his reduced workload over the past few years gives him some extra life, then I'd say get a back that complements him and the system (e.g. James). Given the relative value of the RB position right now, I think we can afford to be patient and look for someone to slide.

Jimmy
11-27-2011, 09:18 PM
i can agree with most of that, and i may still be stuck too much in the shanahan offense, where i think james would be perfect (and fairly portis-like). realistically, i just want to feel good that whoever we take (since i'd bet a lot that we take a rb), he's the guy the coaching staff thought was the best player. i really don't want (in spite of what i said above) to take a guy just because he'll fit into this current offense, if he's not actually the best guy there.

I'd actually prefer a guy like Denard Robinson who could be used as... essentially a Percy Harvin for TT. Now I know he's being considered here because he fits our current offense (or could be/potential offense) more than anyone, but the kid has Harvinesque talent running the ball.

Could make for some interesting packages with he and Teebs if we stick with the option next year.

Cunningham
11-27-2011, 10:53 PM
i like lamar miller quite a bit. he's a great speed back who has a good build and a decent amount of wiggle.

luke kuechly is a guy that i'd want us to target, should he declare. he's not an elite athlete, but i love everything else about him. he'd give our defense smart and consistent play in the middle, something mays definitely struggles with.

Diehard
11-28-2011, 10:22 AM
i like lamar miller quite a bit. he's a great speed back who has a good build and a decent amount of wiggle.

I think a home-run hitter at RB would be a great combination with what we already have.

luke kuechly is a guy that i'd want us to target, should he declare. he's not an elite athlete, but i love everything else about him. he'd give our defense smart and consistent play in the middle, something mays definitely struggles with.

After seeing our LB's overpursue and get burned by the cutback repeatedly, a steadying presence inside would be very helpful.

That being said, I don't think we should "target" or draft for need. We'd benefit from talent pretty much across the board. I can see us going BPA, with maybe a few positions off the radar (e.g. S).

Timbathia
11-28-2011, 07:13 PM
i would also like to take this opportunity to apologize to champ bailey for thinking, two years ago, that he was done at CB and should just move to FS. he's not revis, but i think he's still a top 5 db in the league right now, and has been tremendous. i'm sure the first decent pass rush we've had in nearly his entire career (sorry, as awesome as doom was a couple years ago, one player does not a pass rush make) is helping.

You mean he tackles guys when they run at him rather than that ole move Revis has?

Diehard
11-28-2011, 09:01 PM
i'm sure the first decent pass rush we've had in nearly his entire career (sorry, as awesome as doom was a couple years ago, one player does not a pass rush make) is helping.

It's certainly helping Goodman... he also looks refreshed. Mind you, he still can't tackle worth ****, but his coverage ability and ball skills are much more meaningful when the QB doesn't have the time to make the perfect throw downfield.

Jimmy
11-30-2011, 05:52 PM
Bros. I just joined the Broncos season ticket list today. I'm actually kinda pissed I didn't do it around the time I registered for this site as the waiting time is 7-10 years, according to the wiki page.

I'll be 27-30 and hopefully in a position to afford them/hopefully I'll be living in Denver.

I strongly recommend that, even if you are not currently in financial position to afford these tickets, you join the list once a year. Never know, you might be able to afford it in a few years.

Jimmy
11-30-2011, 08:43 PM
i always thought about it, but it's generally really easy for me to find single game tickets when i want to go to a game (at decent prices). it's hard to justify spending that much when a good part of football coincides with outdoor season.

well if there's a nuclear winter or if (god forbid) you lose function of your legs, you'll be glad you joined.

i'm not a skier or snowboarder or a hunter myself, so there's nothing i'd rather do on a sunday than head to mile high, dare i say, even if tebow is cloned to start at every position.

another thing. even if you want to attend just 2 games, can't you sell your tickets for profit? or is there a rule against that?

Diehard
12-03-2011, 03:47 AM
Check out the coverage map for the Fox early game this weekend.

http://www.the506.com/temp11.html

Craziness. The team hasn't had this kind of attention in a long time.

Namy
12-03-2011, 10:45 AM
Check out the coverage map for the Fox early game this weekend.

http://www.the506.com/temp11.html

Craziness. The team hasn't had this kind of attention in a long time.

Everyday, there's a topic about Tebow on ESPN or NFL.com. Even I'm getting tired of it, but it is nice to have the spotlight on the Broncos for a change.

Jimmy
12-03-2011, 11:05 AM
Everyday, there's a topic about Tebow on ESPN or NFL.com. Even I'm getting tired of it, but it is nice to have the spotlight on the Broncos for a change.

I honestly miss the days when half the Broncos population wasn't bat**** crazy. (see orangemane. why the **** do i even put up with that place?) It's kinda embarrasing to have to prove my santity / defend my views every time it is revealed I root for the Orange and Blue. Especially in Patriots country.

Jimmy
12-04-2011, 12:28 PM
wait, you have to defend yourself to patriots fans? approximately 3 of them were even watching in 2000.

You'd think that would be a good defense, but apparently they've all been diehard fans since the Andre Tippett days.

As a non-Boston sports fan, there is no worse city (Except maybe Philly) to live in.

As a college student, it all balances out.

Diehard
12-04-2011, 03:38 PM
Interesting game. The offense made an error on pretty much every play in the 1st half, but pulled it together and came out on fire in the 2nd half.

Tebow looked good throwing the ball downfield. Seeing him hook up with Thomas on a few big plays was a nice surprise - hopefully that's something that we'll see more of as time goes on.

The defense really missed Von Miller. Quinton Carter going out also hurt - McCarthy looked like a ******* *** trying to tackle Harvin.

The refs were a little dubious today... a more paranoid Broncos fan might think they had something against us.

Anyway, another week, another road win. With Oakland getting crushed in Miami the AFC West title is a very realistic goal. Now we've got to make it happen.

Timbathia
12-04-2011, 03:41 PM
A movie will be made about this season.

Diehard
12-04-2011, 05:36 PM
The difference in the D w/o Von proves the point that one pass rusher is not enough. Doom is effective, but it's Von + Doom that really makes things happen.

With that in mind, I'd like to see us acquire some interior pass rush in the draft. Grab a stud DT in round 1, or look for a nickle DT later on who can bring the heat. Either way, I think it would help the defense a lot.

Philliez01
12-04-2011, 06:31 PM
I am no frontrunner, as I'm a Colts fan and sticking to them forever, but I got to say that I'm really starting to enjoy watching Denver. Not because of 15 but I like the guys on the team.

Lots of young talent too. Von Miller seemed to be really into the game when they showed him. Or at least, that's what I thought. Wish you guys the best.

Diehard
12-04-2011, 06:48 PM
I am no frontrunner, as I'm a Colts fan and sticking to them forever, but I got to say that I'm really starting to enjoy watching Denver. Not because of 15 but I like the guys on the team.

Lots of young talent too. Von Miller seemed to be really into the game when they showed him. Or at least, that's what I thought. Wish you guys the best.

Thanks bro. We've got the wily old veterans (Champ, Dawkins), but overall the team is young. Some of the moves over the past few years have been hard to take, but it did get rid of some of the more selfish personalities and, IMO, really helped team chemistry.

I think the biggest thing is that the team believes they can win, even when they are down. That's a refreshing change from McD's tenure when the team folded too many times in the face of adversity.

CT Bronco Fan
12-05-2011, 05:25 PM
qNC8xRo9vXY

Jimmy
12-05-2011, 07:20 PM
I think it's really easy to forget that even Josh McDaniels was able to win 6 games in a row. I'm rooting for Tim, but it's too damn early to say that this will go on for the rest of the year.

vidae
12-05-2011, 07:50 PM
i am so sick of other nfl fans telling me what to think of my team, after watching a couple of sportscenter highlights and listening to the talking heads. it feels like 2006 (i think?) when everyone was proclaiming champ as one of the worst cbs in the league because they saw him get beat twice on sportscenter completely out of context.

But he just winz gamez njx!

Seriously, I hate Tebow.

Diehard
12-05-2011, 10:13 PM
i can't even hate tebow anymore (take that people who didn't think i would keep my word after that post i made after the lions game). i just hate his legion fans who know nothing about the team and keep spouting off about it. i feel like we've inherited the worst fans of every other team suddenly.

Tebow seems like an honestly good person, but his hype has a way of bringing out the worst in people... and that's true on both sides. Look how many folks in the media (and on this site) went all in against Tebow succeeding. Now that he's having some success, they're becoming as unreasonable as the once-Gator-now-Bronco fans spellbound by Tebow's cult of personality.

If I could, I'd turn down the volume on the hype and the hate. It's not productive and tends to push down the real story about how the team has come together in all facets of the game. Sure, Tebow has a big part to play in that, but so does McGahee, the OL, Decker, Colquitt, Von Miller, Doom, Champ and Dawkins (who, for an old geezer, is playing out of his mind right now).

Cunningham
12-06-2011, 04:33 PM
after seeing how our defense has been vastly improved through the first three quarters of the season, it got me to think about who will become the leader of the defense when dawkins retires. von miller is the only guy that came to mind. as cliche as it sounds, i think that having at least one vocal leader on defense is extremely important.

Timbathia
12-07-2011, 03:14 AM
we need a stud mlb. i just don't see von having that kind of vocal leadership. he's struck me more as a champ bailey.

Seems a bit more vocal that champ, but i agree a stud mlb that took control of the defense would be the biggest piece we could add right now.

Diehard
12-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Seems a bit more vocal that champ, but i agree a stud mlb that took control of the defense would be the biggest piece we could add right now.

It's a good draft to be looking for an ILB. The talent is there and 'backers tend to slide a bit on draft day.

Overall, we're in a good position to be patient. Some of the needs at the top (QB, OT, WR) are going to push down some nice prospects for us.

Timbathia
12-07-2011, 02:08 PM
It's a good draft to be looking for an ILB. The talent is there and 'backers tend to slide a bit on draft day.

Overall, we're in a good position to be patient. Some of the needs at the top (QB, OT, WR) are going to push down some nice prospects for us.

It is going to be strange to only have one pick per round early on. Getting used to having a plethora of early picks each year.

Punisher
12-11-2011, 06:38 PM
Group hug guys?

CT Bronco Fan
12-11-2011, 06:40 PM
There are no words.

Prater is money.

Timbathia
12-11-2011, 07:55 PM
A movie will be made about this season.

and I cant wait to see it, even if everything that happens in it is way too far-fetched for anyone to believe real.

Diehard
12-11-2011, 08:12 PM
Whatever divine force exists, it appears to be on our side...

The offense played like garbage. The receivers in particular should hang their heads in shame - it's been a long time since I've seen that many drops. I also noticed McGahee hesitating a lot at the LOS - that's a huge mistake against a swarming defense like the Bears. I'm thinking he's still banged up.

The defense played well, except that series that resulted in Chicago's TD - from the punt return to the score, the D looked like the Keystone Cops on that one.

Despite the blocked kick, the combo of Prater and Colquitt makes me very, very happy. Those two, along with generally good special teams coverage, are making a difference this year.

Timbathia
12-11-2011, 08:48 PM
It's a good draft to be looking for an ILB. The talent is there and 'backers tend to slide a bit on draft day.

Overall, we're in a good position to be patient. Some of the needs at the top (QB, OT, WR) are going to push down some nice prospects for us.

At this rate though we may miss all the top LBer and Cb prospects. Oh well, rather playoffs than high draft picks.

jCut
12-12-2011, 12:43 AM
It's a good draft to be looking for an ILB. The talent is there and 'backers tend to slide a bit on draft day.

Overall, we're in a good position to be patient. Some of the needs at the top (QB, OT, WR) are going to push down some nice prospects for us.

Don't you think it's a little early to give up on Irving?

jCut
12-12-2011, 05:43 PM
i don't think it's a give up on irving, but i don't think mays is better than depth. if a stud appears, things could be worse than having two good mlbs. i'd say the same about any position on the team.

I'm getting deja vu here. I think we may have discussed this before.

Diehard
12-13-2011, 12:17 PM
I think Irving can play any of the LB spots, so bringing in a stud MLB isn't a huge issue. Let people compete and see how things shake out. That being said, Te'o going back to ND hurts the talent pool at LB.

At the end of the day, I doubt we are going to target any particular need anyway. Just take an impact player and find a way to work him into the mix.

Diehard
12-13-2011, 06:13 PM
Apparently the team agrees:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7341718/sources-denver-broncos-closer-committing-tim-tebow-2012


"If the best player is a cornerback, then that's who we'll take; if the best player is a quarterback, then that's who we'll take," said a team source.

Jimmy
12-18-2011, 07:00 PM
We need to immediately cut Quan Cosby. He muffed and lost a punt, muffed a kickoff, and made an atrocious decision running a kick out of the end zone.

He is indecisive and constantly runs straight into walls. Terrible returner.

I don't care who we put back there, but it can't be him again.

Tebow made some very nice plays. I distinctly remember one beautiful pass down the right sideline to Demaryius that couldn't have been placed better.

He is improving and I am glad we aired it out more. We actually had a shot at Tebow time if we hadn't turned the ball over 3 times in our own end zone.

Final score 42-23.

Subtract a minimum of 9 points (3 field goals) from the Patriots total score for those 3 unfortunate, atrocious fumbles, and they end up with 33 points and we get an extra 3 possessions. Coulda been right in that thing, although it would have been tough.

Demaryius isn't playing half bad. Andre Goodman needs to go immediately. I wish we'd just start Harris.

Moore and Carter can't tackle worth a lick. Our run defense was excellent for the most part.

It's tough not having a great tight end. I feel like Tebow could really use a Hernandez-esque player.

Diehard
12-18-2011, 07:20 PM
We need to immediately cut Quan Cosby. He muffed and lost a punt, muffed a kickoff, and made an atrocious decision running a kick out of the end zone.

I agree 100%. Royal needs to be the full time returner.

Tebow made some very nice plays. I distinctly remember one beautiful pass down the right sideline to Demaryius that couldn't have been placed better.

Tebow played well, other than the fumble. I'm sure the haters are gloating that we lost, but it would be difficult to fault our QB play.

He is improving and I am glad we aired it out more. We actually had a shot at Tebow time if we hadn't turned the ball over 3 times in our own end zone.

Yup. The game summary could be "3 fumbles = game over". We couldn't afford to make those errors against an offense like the Patriots.

Demaryius isn't playing half bad.

He has elevated his game over the past few weeks and seems to have good chemistry with Tebow.

Andre Goodman needs to go immediately. I wish we'd just start Harris.

He teases with a savvy play or two, then gets burnt badly. I think he's right at his "best before date" and I'd be very surprised if he is starting for us next season.

Moore and Carter can't tackle worth a lick. Our run defense was excellent for the most part.

Carter can tackle, but didn't today. Two rookie safeties was not going to get it done against the Pats offense in any case.

jCut
12-20-2011, 01:11 AM
Wasn't Rahim Moore supposed to have tremendous ball-skills? I mean, nobody ever said he was supposed to be able to tackle worth a lick, but the guy was hyped up as a terrific coverage safety. He's still a rookie, but I'm not the least bit impressed. That throw that hit him in the face, in the 1st quarter, could have been a game-changing interception.

Diehard
12-20-2011, 11:09 AM
Wasn't Rahim Moore supposed to have tremendous ball-skills? I mean, nobody ever said he was supposed to be able to tackle worth a lick, but the guy was hyped up as a terrific coverage safety. He's still a rookie, but I'm not the least bit impressed. That throw that hit him in the face, in the 1st quarter, could have been a game-changing interception.

The rookies in the secondary played like, well, rookies. I thought Moore looked decent earlier in the season, but since his concussion (or whatever the injury was) he's struggled.

jCut
12-20-2011, 10:44 PM
The rookies in the secondary played like, well, rookies. I thought Moore looked decent earlier in the season, but since his concussion (or whatever the injury was) he's struggled.

Hmm. I wasn't aware that he got injured. I thought he was benched in favor of Carter.

crossroads
12-24-2011, 09:42 PM
anyone catch the game? i was busy in the mountains, but the stats didn't look pretty... should i assume we stopped running the ball due to the score (looked like mcgahee was running well).

McGahee ran well on the first drive, but as the game went on the Bills were giving up less and less in the running game. I think Denver had something like five straight drives go three and out in the first half, and in that time the Bills scored about 17 straight in the 2nd quarter. Also in the 2nd quarter Royal had a kick return for a TD that was called back for one of the worst block in the back calls I've ever seen on Rosario. He literally didn't even touch the guy (not that it mattered in the end.)

In the second half the Broncos just couldn't stop Spiller, although they did a good job of holding them to FG's in the red zone. They opened up the offense more than usual in the second half, and the results were less than spectacular, eventually leading to the implosion that saw the Bills scoring defensive touchdowns on back-to-back plays. All in all, it was fairly similar to the game against the Lions.

Timbathia
12-25-2011, 05:59 AM
anyone catch the game? i was busy in the mountains, but the stats didn't look pretty... should i assume we stopped running the ball due to the score (looked like mcgahee was running well).

Basically another game without Dawkins. Defense looks very different when he is not there (different in a bad way).

jCut
12-25-2011, 09:28 PM
I think we got exposed defensively, in addition to Tebow and the offensive line regressing. At this point, I more or less expect us to blow the KC game and miss out on the playoffs, a' la the 2008 Donkeys. Yes, the sky is falling.

Timbathia
12-26-2011, 02:03 PM
I think we got exposed defensively, in addition to Tebow and the offensive line regressing. At this point, I more or less expect us to blow the KC game and miss out on the playoffs, a' la the 2008 Donkeys. Yes, the sky is falling.

Dont worry chicken little, some of us are right there with you.

Diehard
12-26-2011, 03:07 PM
McGahee ran well on the first drive, but as the game went on the Bills were giving up less and less in the running game. I think Denver had something like five straight drives go three and out in the first half, and in that time the Bills scored about 17 straight in the 2nd quarter.

This is pretty much the story of the season... and the coaching staff need to bear the brunt of the blame. They should be able to coach and gameplan to get the team out of this rut, but unfortunately its more of the same. I think McCoy may be the single worst playcaller in the league. run-run-run-punt until you're 2+ scores in the hole, then pass-pass-pass-int? Ridiculous. The special teams played like **** which really should've thrown any thought of a close, field-position game out of the window. Yet, there they were, trying to do just that for 3 quarters. Is the team really this stupid?

Timbathia
12-30-2011, 12:55 AM
Pretty quiet in here considering we are about to have our biggest game for a few years.

What do we all think - win or lose?

I think win, but will not be remotely suprised if we lose.

Jimmy
01-01-2012, 03:42 PM
Chris Kuper is done for the playoffs, even if we make them.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't ready for the season opener.

Just completely shattered his ankle. Completely. Got taken off in an aircast. ****.

Jimmy
01-01-2012, 06:23 PM
We have a better shot of beating Pittsburgh if we start Brady Quinn.*

Discuss this thought that I don't necessarily agree with:

CT Bronco Fan
01-01-2012, 07:19 PM
playoffs!!!

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-01-2012, 07:45 PM
quinn and gabbert are quite literally the only qbs in the entire league who could make the team worse.

now y'all see why the play-calling is limited? because tebow's not bloody capable of running anything remotely approximating an offense. he's completely incapable of making a read. there's *far* more than a single offseason of 'fixing' there.

Yeah, Quinn is balls. He's Tebow without the ability to pull insane moments out of his ass. AKA the Tebow we've seen the past 3 weeks. Today was actually the first time I've watched a full game of Tebow's this season, and wow... he is awful. I think we should bring in a veteran this year, let us see what miracle Tebow can achieve in the offseason, and if its underwhelming, give up on the experiment.

Our only chance next week is if McGahee can go nuts enough to let Tebow escape the pocket and work. Unfortunately, our opponent is the Steelers, giving that a 0.4% chance of happening.

Jimmy
01-01-2012, 09:20 PM
I think we should bring in a veteran this year, let us see what miracle Tebow can achieve in the offseason, and if its underwhelming, give up on the experiment.

My #1 choice right now is Jason Campbell. He was decent for Oakland... I actually like him more than Orton. Sign him to a 3 year deal and go from there.

Timbathia
01-01-2012, 10:50 PM
I think we have to accept another year of tebow. I say we stack the defense in the draft and FA this offseason, and then see what the offense does under Tebow next year. Start rebuilding it next offseason if necessary.

I will be watching the playoffs next week very embarassed that our team is there.

Timbathia
01-01-2012, 10:50 PM
Chris Kuper is done for the playoffs, even if we make them.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't ready for the season opener.

Just completely shattered his ankle. Completely. Got taken off in an aircast. ****.

Tis really sucks if he is not rigt next year. We have enough weak spots for new ones to open up.

jCut
01-02-2012, 01:46 PM
I think Matt Flynn is for real. I know he had a lot of weapons to throw to yesterday, but that was an epic performance nonetheless . He's a free agent next year, so why not throw some money at him?

J-Mike88
01-02-2012, 01:53 PM
I think Matt Flynn is for real. I know he had a lot of weapons to throw to yesterday, but that was an epic performance nonetheless . He's a free agent next year, so why not throw some money at him?
yes. just yes.
Flynn's top target yesterday was #87 Jordy Nelson.
Denver's #87 is very similar in size, speed, and style.
And then there's Demaryious Thomas.

Flynn would have won that game for you yesterday, and beaten Buffalo.

We'll take your #21 pick for Flynn, or Elvis Dumervil.
Elway will love Flynn. He's a winner.
And he can throw the football like a quarterback.

jCut
01-02-2012, 03:30 PM
no. just no. he's the next kevin kolb. don't want. doesn't fit. doesn't help anything.

edited to add: and will cost WAY too much.

Yep. He's the next Kevin Kolb, because he's a backup QB that has performed well when given opportunities. That makes sense. Everytime I've seen this kid, he's done good things. And we don't have to trade for him.

CT Bronco Fan
01-02-2012, 05:24 PM
Broncos signed OL Ryan Harris today, when healthy the kid played great, when healthy that is.

Wonder if he's just for depth or if he'll plug into the RG.

jCut
01-02-2012, 06:06 PM
and he doesn't fit any part of the offense we're in. but yeah, i ONLY called him kolb because he's a backup http://www.booleansoup.com/images/emoticons/eyeroll.gif.

Well, you called him the next Kevin Kolb without illustrating your comparison. And I don't think it's a given that Mike McCoy and his god-awful offensive scheme is retained next year. I doubt Elway is comfortable with a conservative offense in a passing league.

Timbathia
01-02-2012, 10:14 PM
at this point, tebow will still be our qb to start next year. i can't imagine our offense changing dramatically.

it is worth mentioning (and I just did in another forum), that we have an exceptionally inexperienced offense from a personnel standpoint. Tebow, Decker, DT, Beadles, Walton and Franklin have all less than 2 seasons experience, and [insert TE name in here] isnt exactly a seasoned vet either. Obviously Tebow's development as a passer will be the limiting variable next year, but as a whole the offense left as is should get considerably better next year just from an experience standpoint (obviously that doesnt necessarily mean much considering how bad this year).

jCut
01-02-2012, 10:37 PM
at this point, tebow will still be our qb to start next year.

I really hope you're wrong.

Diehard
01-02-2012, 11:44 PM
i really agree with both of you. but, from where i sit, tebow is what he is. it's like watching vince young as a passer (except that vince young was an idiot). there are just some habits that you can't un-teach. tebow's throwing motion, and consequently, his inability to reliably throw the football is one of those things, imo.

We'll have to see if they'll give him a full offseason to prove otherwise. I'm not sold on his job security at this point. As long as he was clutch in crunch time, it would be hard to go against him, but the last few weeks have been ugly and he needs to bear a lot of the blame.

as such, if we're going to do more than throw in the towel next year, we'll likely be running the exact same system. yes, probably with a few changes, but i think it'll be the same base.

With a full offseason there would be no excuse to continue the patchwork mess they've "installed" (and I use that term loosely). Despite all the talk about the spread/option, they keep sliding back towards that run&playpass conservative **** that Fox likes.

so, that said, it's just a crap year to do anything at the position.

That was pretty the case as soon as we started winning some games. However, a number of the teams who cleaned house have legit QBs but we all know new leadership tends to want to put their stamp on things. Could result in a wierd game of musical chairs at the QB spot.

DBNYDP
01-03-2012, 12:25 AM
Ideally I would want to be done with the whole drama regarding Tebow and just get rid of him. But that being said I'm also optimistic and want to make sure he is a bust before I would get rid of him. I want to see what happens with a full offseason and some better playcalling (I wouldn't blame the playcalling for Tebow's failure but I find it hard to believe it is doing him any favors establish any rhythm or momentum for him).

But more importantly there really isn't any viable option to replace him with. There are two franchise QBs in the draft and I think it would take the farm which I'm not really willing to part with to get either one (even though if it does happen I'll be happy we took care of the QB position). But besides those two I think we'd be settling for a subpar or average QB which isn't what I want to do (I rather just wait it out and if Tebow is really that bad we'll be in the position to draft a great QB the next year) as the draft class with QB looks like **** to me after Griffin. I just don't think signing free agents is a good option for the QB position as rarely are there any quality guys in the FA market. Some fans are getting infatuated with Flynn which just has bad idea written all over him. He's going to get paid a lot, and I doubt he comes close to matching his salary with his play. If he plays well we probably won't be in a position to draft a good QB next year and if he plays bad then we probably will be in a position to draft a guy next year.

Diehard
01-03-2012, 09:06 AM
yeah, i just don't see a lot of options... like, landry jones? can't see elway sinking that low, no matter how little he likes tebow. tannehill's a project and we don't really need yet another one at qb.

I'm thinking more about a bunch of trades involving QB's already in the league, though of course the draft would have some bearing on that as well. Something is going to happen with Manning, and that will likely have cascading effects. Sam Bradford is an interesting one - he, like Tebow, could find himself with few supporters after the leadership change and the Rams hold a top pick.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I think a lot will depend on whether we can move Tebow for a non-trivial amount of ammunition.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-03-2012, 10:57 AM
Hopefully if Tebow stinks it up this weekend(which we can only assume he will), people will see that the last 4 awful games are far more indicative of who Tebow is than the random 6 game winning streak he pulled from his ass.

jCut
01-03-2012, 11:56 AM
Brandon Weeden could be a nice pickup in the 2nd round. The guy is much older than the average prospect, but I think the added maturity could work to his advantage. It seems like he doesn't have any obvious holes in his game, but his age will make him drop a little bit.

Timbathia
01-03-2012, 02:39 PM
i'd like bradford in the fox offense... no need to take big risks, decent pieces in place to support him... i dunno, i'm warming more to the idea of selling out a bit for a qb. the only major difference between any of the afc west teams is having an elite qb (the only reason san diego is relevant) and coaching (why we've been completely irrelevant). i think we have enough pieces in place now (and young pieces) to be a serious team every single year with a proper qb (i hate you mcdaniels), and i wouldn't be opposed to making a move, presuming we can effectively 'move on' from tebow prior to the start of the season. if he's still here, i'd rather wait another year.

You are probably right, and maybe I am just too old, but I really really want a good defense again. Getting lit up by opposing offenses infuriates me more than not scoring. Right now our defense is almost okay. I would not be happy if we sold out the next few years of drafting by taking a QB (and in the process watched the defense go backwards).

Jimmy
01-03-2012, 03:15 PM
You are probably right, and maybe I am just too old, but I really really want a good defense again. Getting lit up by opposing offenses infuriates me more than not scoring. Right now our defense is almost okay. I would not be happy if we sold out the next few years of drafting by taking a QB (and in the process watched the defense go backwards).

But as all of these experts are now saying... the game has evolved... guys are now dropping back 50 times a game, and it is not out of the ordinary.

The best defense is a good offense. Not that I buy into that word for word, but it is partly true. Having an elite offense certainly aids the defense more than it hurts it.

While it would be wonderful to get the orange crush defense back, let's be real: that defense was first and foremost a run stopping defense, in fact, it was very weak against the pass, at least at certain points.

The game has changed; that defense wouldn't do much today. Invest in some top flight pass rushers like we have, or get an elite quarterback. That is the only way you stand a chance anymore in this league.

Question: Has there ever been a historically famous that was super-elite against the pass? Or have all the memorable defenses (76 steelers, 85 bears, 00 ravens) been run first stoppers?

DBNYDP
01-04-2012, 01:51 AM
Not going to lie being on break and all has given me a lot of time to think and trading the farm for Luck seems better and better every time I think about it. I mean I think we have talented if inconsistent youth on this thing, and the holes that we do have can definitely be filled with guys who aren't first rounders these next few years. A franchise QB can carry a team with a lot more holes than I think we have, and I have a lot of confidence in Luck's ability. Obviously though if he doesn't work out than we are screwed but I mean if it pays off we're good for the next 10-15 years...that's a lot of reward...

Diehard
01-04-2012, 11:16 AM
Not going to lie being on break and all has given me a lot of time to think and trading the farm for Luck seems better and better every time I think about it. I mean I think we have talented if inconsistent youth on this thing, and the holes that we do have can definitely be filled with guys who aren't first rounders these next few years. A franchise QB can carry a team with a lot more holes than I think we have, and I have a lot of confidence in Luck's ability. Obviously though if he doesn't work out than we are screwed but I mean if it pays off we're good for the next 10-15 years...that's a lot of reward...

That whole "we're screwed" thing is a big, big downside...

Selling the farm for a player makes sense if all the other pieces are in place for a championship run. We aren't in that position. We have question marks all over the place due to the amount of youth on the team. From what I've seen so far, I'm certainly not comfortable with the succession plan for all the old guys we have in our secondary. Another pass rusher would help greatly. On offense we've got QB, RB, TE and at least one OL spot to upgrade... and that's assuming these receivers pan out which is not a given as their play has been very inconsistent.

We don't need to sell the farm to be competitive in the AFC West. Let's keep building on strength (defense, running game). If we are patient, an opportunity will arise to address the QB position at a reasonable cost.

Diehard
01-04-2012, 05:07 PM
for a truly weird analogy, i think fox's offense would value qbs like most people value wine. there's a certain minimum standard you need to not be drinking the virtual equivalent of md 20/20, but at the same time, at a certain point you'd be paying astronomically more for next to no true benefit. why spend more for the $200 bottle if you can't actually taste the difference between it and the $8 bottle?

Protect the ball, execute the intermediate/deep playaction passes and manage the offense. If the $8 bottle does the trick, why spend more? Mind you, I think even Fox would be open to the $200 bottle *if* it was at a huge discount. But value-for-money is definitely a factor here.

Hm, the more I think about it the more Brandon Weeden seems like a possibility. Mature, steady in the pocket, can hit receivers downfield and probably comes at a price that wouldn't make you feel bad about replacing him a few years down the road.

jCut
01-04-2012, 06:26 PM
in the second? that seems like a massive over-rating of his draft slot. he'd be a good pick-up in the 6th.

I've heard he will be a high 2nd round pick, I guess we'll see once the draft process begins. But, aside from RG3 and Luck, I think he's the best QB available.

As far as Luck is concerned, the guy is as sure of a thing as I've ever seen. I would be all in to get him.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-04-2012, 06:41 PM
Yeah I wouldn't mind a 28(?) year old in the later rounds, but as a second rounder, it's a waste IMO. Even if he pans out, he's going to take a few years to understand playing in the pros. So let's say he's 30 when he figures it all out and starts balling. That gives him 3-5 years as a top echelon player and that's generous. For most positions, that's a good run, but from a QB you want at least a decade.

DBNYDP
01-05-2012, 01:54 PM
I like Luck a lot as a prospect and I think his floor is going to be a Matt Ryan type player. So I mean there isn't that huge of a risk when it comes to him for me, but I completely understand the skepticism as he could definitely bust which will screw us long term. It is one of the reasons I'm so conflicted on trading up there. Not only would we dominate the AFC West yearly but I think great QB play would put as a consistent force in the AFC.

I agree with NJX regarding the value of a QB in Fox's system. But at some point he is going to have to understand that you can't win in this league without a solid passing attack. We've seen that ball control/great rushing attacks cannot win against elite QBs anymore. The fact that these guys can fairly easily lead 1 or 2 minute drives with ease means that you need to have a guy that you can count on to lead your team right back via passing the ball. I think we've seen even with a very sketchy QB, Fox is definitely starting to change his game a bit. A couple years ago Tebow would have passed the ball like 10 times a game, and while there isn't a huge change in terms of attempts I think we are definitely see this Fox offense trying to pass more. At the very least I think Elway/Xanders really value a good QB and understand you need to be able to pass as well as run the ball, I think both are going to eventually try to make passing a much bigger part of the offense.

Brandon Weeden is a weird option for me. I think if you told me he was 24 or younger I'd be balls deep in love. But coming from that system I definitely see him having rookie growing pains, and I'm not sure how long that is going to last. I think he'll put it together but will that be halfway through next year or 3 years down the road which really could happen. Then you are left with a 31 year old QB going into his breakout year? While QBs can go into their late 30's, I just see a lot of risk there even for the second round.

Diehard
01-05-2012, 04:08 PM
Yeah I wouldn't mind a 28(?) year old in the later rounds, but as a second rounder, it's a waste IMO.

I don't like the 2nd round for QB's in general. If you think the guy can start immediately, then take him in round 1. Developmental guys / question marks should be punted the mid-late rounds.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't like getting a deal - if you had a first round grade on the guy and he's still kicking around in round 2, then by all means, have at it.

Diehard
01-06-2012, 11:35 AM
Interesting bit from DP:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/01/05/forget-broncos-drafting-a-qb-in-first-round/11633/


All the other quarterbacks available in the upcoming draft? They’re reaches at No. 21. The Broncos like Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill, Oklahoma State’s Brandon Weeden, Arizona’s Nick Foles, Arizona State’s Brock Osweiler and Arkansas’ Tyler Wilson (if he bypasses his redshirt senior season) but more as second-round picks. They love Boise State’s Kellen Moore somewhere in the middle rounds.

But first round? The Broncos will take a cornerback, or a defensive tackle, or a linebacker or a running back.


I'd take the accuracy of this with a rather large grain of salt, but it's still food for thought.

DBNYDP
01-06-2012, 02:59 PM
It seemed like the Post was reaching they literally just named every QB after Griffin. Then they just labeled a bunch of "need" positions.

Hines
01-08-2012, 07:27 PM
Good game, all. You clearly deserved it. Now do me a favor and knock out the Patriots.

Timbathia
01-08-2012, 07:29 PM
Good game, all. You clearly deserved it. Now do me a favor and knock out the Patriots.

Thanks man. Too excited still to type anything meaningful. I like being in the playoffs again.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-08-2012, 07:40 PM
I'm so psyched we won. Good game to the Steelers, it's a real shame you guys couldn't put out your best team tonight because of injuries and health issues.

If I can be real for a second, I was very impressed by Tebow today. He was making throws on the money down the field. He definitely missed a few, and I absolutely HATE when he lifts his back foot before throwing, but he showed me something for sure. That was the NFL's #1 pass defense, and yes it was missing Ryan Clark, but still.

Anyway, with a guy like Tebow, the way he changes the way a defense plays, he doesn't need to become a Peyton Manning throwing the ball. Obviously that would be awesome, but unrealistic. If he can just somehow practice and work with the coaches and John Elway this off-season and become just an average passer, all of a sudden he's an above average QB. And in year 3, I'd be happy with that. After today, I'm actually excited for what Tim Tebow, and the rest of this very young offense, can do for next year. And I was ready to write off next season until the 2nd quarter today.

Let's see some more Tebow magic in Foxborough!!

J-Mike88
01-08-2012, 08:18 PM
Everybody misses passes, and bad footwork will hurt any QB.

If you don't see A LOT of improvement in Tebow's passing from his first start until today, I don't know what you're watching.

He's developing in a positive manner here. You can't ask for more than that in this amount of time.

Steve Mariucci just raved about him.... Deion loves Timmy's running ability and ballz he shows.

So do I.

Tebow is absolutely unbelievable.... one-of-a-kind.... never been anyone like him, so complicated.

I'm very happy you guys won, but will be pissed if they lay an egg in Foxboro because I hate everything about the Patriots.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-08-2012, 08:20 PM
my problem is still that his footwork and motion destroy his accuracy almost every time. he did make some good throws today, and if he could hit those throws repeatedly, i'd think we'd be ok. but then he BADLY misses on a play we had to have at the end of the 4th.

Yeah, definitely. It's gonna be all about consistency for Tim. He showed the flashes today, he just needs to make that the norm, so when he has games like this we aren't freaking out going HOLY **** TEBOW

DBNYDP
01-08-2012, 09:10 PM
I think consistency is going to come after a full offseason to properly work on his footwork. I think we've seen that he's completely changed his throwing motion, and that is what he's been focusing on since he really entered the NFL. It definitely shows as his throwing motion is definitely a lot better than it was when he entered the league, and is more compact. Now I think he needs to tackle footwork which will improve his accuracy, and with footwork he is going to have to improve his pocket awareness as well. And he's just going to get better and better at going through his progressions/reading coverages as he plays more. The important thing right now is to improve his footwork though, the other parts of the game will come after he gets these fundamentals down.

I'm fairly confident that Tebow will be the starter next year.

Punisher
01-08-2012, 09:23 PM
This season is limiting my life span by atleast 2 years. Wow.

Punisher
01-08-2012, 09:37 PM
NJX how do you feel after this win? I've seen many of your posts though the years, but honestly does this win make you believe we should build behind Tebow? With his inconsistencies do you believe his upside is worth it?

Punisher
01-08-2012, 09:40 PM
It should also be noted that John Fox,Mike
McCoy, ( to an extent ) and Dennis Allen are keepers.

Punisher
01-08-2012, 09:45 PM
meh. don't get me wrong, i'm stoked we won and are still playing (i think it hasn't sunk in that that actually happened yet). and i think tebow's bought himself another year as the guy. but i'm hesitant. until he can string together a couple of decent performances, it's tough to see him as the full future. i mean, he was just AWFUL to end the season. and this is really the first game he threw like an nfl qb, and he still couldn't hit a short pass to save his life.

I'm not one to usually get caught up over a single game but how do you not feel that excitement at all over this game. It was clearly David vs. Goliath. I may be in the moment now, but I hope we keep working with Tebow. I truly believe that this young man along with the this new set of coaches has elevated the motivation game in and game out of this squad.

DBNYDP
01-08-2012, 10:02 PM
I think his throwing motion really did get better so I'll disagree there. It isn't pretty but it is functional and it works well enough. I think footwork is a much bigger concern and in general is much more important than throwing motion which gets a lot of attention because it is easier for a lay person to notice. Anyway I'm excited to see what he can do with an offseason, I've never been a Tebow fanatic but I'm an overall optimist for the Broncos.

Also I read this article because it appeared on Aziz Ansari's twitter. It isn't really about football but you can definitely relate it to us http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/11/090511fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=1

HEISMANHERSCHEL
01-08-2012, 10:14 PM
Forget all the sports writers. You should enjoy this. Tebow has you guys playing in the second round of the playoffs. There are a lot of teams that would trade with you right now. Like my team, for instance.

Diehard
01-08-2012, 11:23 PM
I'm down in Mexico this week, and had the pleasure of watching this game at one of the many poolside bars at the resort. 2 for 1 gin and tonics and a bunch of pissed off Steelers fans made my day a particularly sweet one... :)

The first round combo of DT and Tebow was money today. We need to see more of that. Credit to McCoy for calling a much better game after ugliness of the first few series... It seemed like the handcuffs were suddenly taken off and the offense really responded well.

McGahee really needs to do a better job securing the ball. Mays also looked awful at times, whiffing on a bunch of tackles.

Anyway, it's all good and I'm flying high on a combination of euphoria and alcohol. I'm sure I'll pay the price tomorrow, but nothing a poolside nap and some greasy food won't fix.

Oh yeah.... GO BRONCOS!!!

Timbathia
01-08-2012, 11:30 PM
I'm down in Mexico this week, and had the pleasure of watching this game at one of the many poolside bars at the resort. 2 for 1 gin and tonics and a bunch of pissed off Steelers fans made my day a particularly sweet one... :)

The first round combo of DT and Tebow was money today. We need to see more of that. Credit to McCoy for calling a much better game after ugliness of the first few series... It seemed like the handcuffs were suddenly taken off and the offense really responded well.

McGahee really needs to do a better job securing the ball. Mays also looked awful at times, whiffing on a bunch of tackles.

Anyway, it's all good and I'm flying high on a combination of euphoria and alcohol. I'm sure I'll pay the price tomorrow, but nothing a poolside nap and some greasy food won't fix.

Oh yeah.... GO BRONCOS!!!

Mays is awful. He ends up in the right spot at times, but if defenses are always as bad as the worst player we still have a ways to go to have a good one.

Sounds like a nicer place to watch the game than I had. I was in the gym lobby at work by myself (only tv at work I could watch discretely). Game started at 8:30am (monday morning here). Missed the second quarter while at a meeting, then back to the gym. Many strange looks by people walking past while I was standing on the sofa, fist pumping after DTs catch and run.

descendency
01-09-2012, 12:10 AM
Congrats on the win.

Just curious... how does everyone feel about McDaniels trading Cutler and Marshall for Tebow and Thomas now?

Timbathia
01-09-2012, 03:20 AM
Congrats on the win.

Just curious... how does everyone feel about McDaniels trading Cutler and Marshall for Tebow and Thomas now?

I am in the minority here in that I didnt like Cutler (maybe because I liked Plummer better, or maybe because he was a flopsy haired mopey tool). Not particularly upset when we traded him. Marshall needed to be traded for his actions. He is an overgrown 5th grader. He was a handy player, but whatever.

That being said, today doesnt really change anything as njx said. For better or worse we have moved on and too much football has been played for respospective whatifs. Cutler and marshall are still better players than tebow and DT, but the broncos today are very different from when we had them.

Diehard
01-09-2012, 08:42 AM
to be clear, i don't think any broncos fan really regrets losing marshall, after the **** he pulled towards the end. dude appeared to be on a massive downward spiral before mcdaniels even got here.

Yeah, BM was a head case even by WR standards... And that's saying something.

Getting rid of the douche bags has created a real team. Check out that video of the Broncos locker room after the game to see what I mean. credit John Fox as well - he seems to have played a big role in bringing all the guys together.

Punisher
01-09-2012, 12:37 PM
So it's the day after...

Any predictions on this upcoming weekend fellas?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-09-2012, 12:44 PM
New England's defense is a lot worse than Pittsburgh's, even a gimpy Pittsburgh's. If Tebow can make the throws he made yesterday, we're going to put up points. If the safeties drop back, we should be able to run the ball, too. If Tebow plays with that confidence and ability, the Pats D will need to pick their poison. It's going to be difficult but I'm hoping for a much better showing offensively than in week 15. We need to have no turnovers.

Defense is going to need to be better. They weren't bad yesterday, but a not bad defense gets shredded for 50 points by the Patriots. I'm hopeful for this one, and think we have a puncher's chance, but obviously odds are New England wins big.

DBNYDP
01-09-2012, 03:46 PM
I don't know what to think of Jay Cutler to be honest. I'm not really sure what would have happened if he stayed in Denver.

I don't regret Marshall though, I think Thomas can be a better player than him TBH. Thomas is a better a deep threat though I think Marshall is more dangerous after the catch, but Thomas isn't too bad there either.

I think as long as we don't lose the turnover battle like we did versus the Pats the first time it will at least be pretty close. I think it is complete ******** that people said that Belicheck stopped Tebow, he didn't do that and I think it was one of the games that Tebow actually looked like a good passer. If we don't make those dumb mistakes and our defense makes some plays this is a winnable game, but I think it is definitely a tougher matchup than the Steelers. The biggest reason is just that there is going to be a lot of pressure on our offense to score and keep up with the Patriots.

Diehard
01-15-2012, 03:24 PM
Eh, no big surprise we got smacked by the Pats. Scrubs in the secondary + scrubs on the OL left us wide open.

I missed the whole game stuck on the plane back from Mexico, but just spent some time catching up. A few thoughts re: the draft / FA...

OL - both guards got pushed back too often and Franklin got beat badly off the snap in pass protect. Getting Kuper back off IR will help, but I think a good case could be made to punt Franklin to G, punt Beadles to the bench and then bring in someone to man the RT spot. If not, grab someone to man the LG spot.

MLB - May is crap. Coverage is sucking and he's whiffing on tackles. Since they basically redshirted Irving, we've got a big question mark here. Another body to compete for the starting spot would be wise.

S - Ugh. IMO Carter will be good, but the rest is a mess. Bruton, Moore, Bush... they're crap and got torn apart by Brady. Maybe Moore gets his confidence back, but I wouldn't want to count on it. Dawkins is too old to rely on to stay healthy.

Jimmy
01-16-2012, 10:10 AM
Pardon the irrelevancy and poor timed nature of this post, but I've been for 7 years and I still have no clue what any of you guys really do for a living, or what states you live in. Any of you care to fill me in? There's going to be a significant lul on this board over the next few months on account of the fact that our season just ended. Might as well talk about something.

I'll start – I started posting here (in Connecticut) a month before my 14th birthday, mainly as a way to procrastinate/avoid school work. At one point (around the time I joined)NFLDC was the #1 object of distraction for me, and the reason why my grades were so poor. That and Madden.

I then went off to an all-guys boarding school a year after I joined this site, and after repeating freshman year and spending 4 years there, I graduated and now I'm a sophomore journalism major at a school in Boston, surrounded by a bunch of self righteous Patriots fans. Still posting, but I've never repeated my posts-per-day numbers that I put up back in the middle-late portion of the previous decade.

Why I'm a Broncos fan in CT: My father moved out to Jackson Hole in the 70's and later went on to Boulder, where he became a Broncos fanatic. He moved back to the east coast in the 80's, and when I was born I wanted to be just like dad. By the age of 6 I knew the entire Broncos starting line up. I was the only kid east of the mississippi who wrote about the Broncos in his weekly composition/show and tell book.

Timbathia
01-16-2012, 02:40 PM
After watching the niners on saturday, it shows that to play defense against an elite offense you need to be getting in the face of the QB every play. Cant do that with only ends that can rush - needs to come from inside as well. Also need dbs that can catch.

So you are right njx, a disruptive dt and a cb that can flat out play is high on the list for me. I have also banged on about how important a mlb is for a year or two (man i wish al wilson was still around).

Offense - who knows. The oline is really young. They may be okay to leave for the time being. It would be good to get a rb that is a threat to score whenever he touches the ball. Even if he is only a ten touch a game guy. Ball, johnson or moreno coming in to backup mcgahee or on thrid downs is not inspiring.

Diehard
01-16-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: CB - keep in mind that we have two young guys on IR (Syd and Vaughn), so we have some depth there. I'm not sold on either one as a solution to the #2 spot, though, so if there's good value at CB when we pick then I think we should pull the trigger.

I think S is better addressed in FA. I don't think we can afford to burn another pick at that position. We've got a slew of young guys who are all unproven commodities already.

In terms of impact, though, I think inside pass rush would make the biggest difference to the success of the defense. It's not a great draft to be looking for a DT, though. Fletcher Cox could be a guy to look at in the 2nd (if he slides that far...)

@ Jimmy - I live in Edmonton, Alberta, which is the northern wing of the Broncos Nation. I'm a manager with the department of education - my team crunches data and evaluates the performance of the system. I have lots of connections with Colorado (old friends living in both Ft. Collins and Springs), which is where my interest in the Broncos came from.

Timbathia
01-16-2012, 03:53 PM
@Jimmy - I moved to Australia about 6 years ago to work at a University in the engineering department (lecturing/research/etc.). Was at Colorado School of Mines before that (living in Golden).

Timbathia
01-16-2012, 04:39 PM
Kinda sucks that teams are after our OC and DC. Hurts to lose good coordinators in a rebuilding phase.

Diehard
01-16-2012, 04:59 PM
Kinda sucks that teams are after our OC and DC. Hurts to lose good coordinators in a rebuilding phase.

I think Allen would be a pretty significant loss. I'm not sure about McCoy... our playcalling was very predictable, but that could very well be Fox's influence.

Punisher
01-16-2012, 05:04 PM
I'd hate to lose Dennis Allen. He seems to get alot of the little we have on D.

As long as we have Tebow I think McCoy is the man. Then again, what OC would come in to work around Tebow if we lost McCoy?

Timbathia
01-16-2012, 06:38 PM
i don't think either CB we currently have is more than a future nickel guy. if i'm wrong, great, i think our ends with a serviceable DT and some great CBs would be terrifying. but it's a position we need to be ready to plug talent into, since who knows how much longer champ will want to stick around.

i'd also suggest that, if we just want interior pass rush, we should also be looking at bigger DEs and watch what, say, the giants did with their linemen (guys who would've been ends on other teams were shifted down and in to create pressure, for instance) a couple of years ago. if warren's remotely healthy and bunkley can play, i'd be less worry about the running down guys.

personally, live in denver, but work a job with a **** ton of travel. grew up just west of denver, went to school for two hellish years in western mass before finishing up my drinking/burning things at CU.

I really hope we have no problems resigning him. Both Bunkley and Marcus Thomas are FAs.

jCut
01-16-2012, 07:13 PM
-I think the DTs are solid, but I don't think any of them excel at getting up-field and creating pressure. We need to finally address that need and bring in a game-changer.

-Chris Harris has played his way into a role next year, but I think he is a nickel corner at best. Syd'Quan and Vaughn should provide depth and nothing more. We need a starter opposite Champ.

-McGahee is good, but with his age and running style it's obvious that he's going to have a very tough time staying healthy. We need reinforcements. LaMichael James is good, but can he be anything more than a complimentary back?

-Literally every other position needs help in some form or fashion.

-@Jimmy I am a 23 year old photographer/dj. I have lived in Denver my whole life. I have been posting here for a very long time. I used to have a different screen name, but I don't remember what it was. Cutthroat or something like that.

Diehard
01-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Chris Harris made the all-rookie team... as a safety?

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/harris-and-miller-named-to-all-rookie-team/

Might as well just have general categories, in that case (e.g. OL, DB, DL, etc). Probably makes more sense.

Anyway, another late round / UFA CB find for us. At least we're doing something right...

Roddoliver
01-17-2012, 12:08 PM
1st round pick: pass rush. DT/DE

Diehard
01-17-2012, 12:15 PM
Literally every other position needs help in some form or fashion.

... and this is why we can safely go BPA. However, I suspect that means no DT for us in round 1. OL, LB and secondary seem more likely.

i'll keep rolling with the prospect crush... i think he fits a tim tebow style offense perfectly. where he can get a crease or a hole, i think he hits it well, and he hits it with more speed than just about anyone else i've seen in the draft.

Yes, speed at RB would be a big boost. Lamar Miller would be another nice fit, but his availability will probably be an issue at pick #25. James may slide into the 3rd, which could be a very nice value pick.

Diehard
01-17-2012, 12:19 PM
1st round pick: pass rush. DT/DE

I think that's highly desirable, but the DT pool is weak at the top and pass rushers tend to generate a lot of interest. #25 might not be a great spot to be looking for those things.

Diehard
01-17-2012, 02:34 PM
i think this is a perfect year to trade down. presuming the draft plays out as expected, that is. i don't see any overwhelming BPA value at our position, and anything we drafted for need would, for the most part, be a massive overdraft.

I think this will be the draft day approach. See who slips down to 25, then make the decision. If the obvious value isn't there, then trade down instead of reaching on a need.

However, I believe that someone will slip down to us. A few teams will gamble on potential, a few will go strongly with need and positional value will influence others.

Diehard
01-17-2012, 02:38 PM
regarding miller, i'd like him in the late second. i think he'd be an atrocious, moreno-like (in value, not in talent) pick in the first. but he just looks like he'll go way earlier than he should.

He's getting a lot of buzz around here, but we've all seen how RB's slide on draft day. I think Richardson is the only RB that's a lock for round 1.

jCut
01-18-2012, 12:09 AM
i'll keep rolling with the prospect crush... i think he fits a tim tebow style offense perfectly. where he can get a crease or a hole, i think he hits it well, and he hits it with more speed than just about anyone else i've seen in the draft. i *don't* think he's a 3 down back in a standard offense, but there are only a bare handful of guys in the nfl who are, and i don't see anyone in this draft who i think is on that level (i really don't like richardson, but i'm willing to concede the point if anyone wants to force it). to be honest, i think he would've fit the old shanahan offense perfectly, too.

all that said, if he's a guy i want, he'll go to the patriots. the nfl draft hates me.

I remember when his stock was much higher and was considered a probable first round pick. Any idea why his stock fell? Just curious, I didn't watch a whole lot of college football this year (though i did watch a few oregon games, and i thought he looked good).

jCut
01-18-2012, 12:18 AM
However, I suspect that means no DT for us in round 1. OL, LB and secondary seem more likely..

Hmm.. what makes you say that? Poe, Still, Thompson, Worthy, Brockers, etc. would represent good value @ #25.

Diehard
01-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Hmm.. what makes you say that? Poe, Still, Thompson, Worthy, Brockers, etc. would represent good value @ #25.

Which one of those guys brings the pass rush we need inside? There are a lot of big, solid bodies there but I'm not convinced that's what we need. Worthy is the obvious fit but he's inconsistent. Brockers has big potential, but probably goes before we pick.

Maybe I'm selling some of these guys short, but it seems like we're overvaluing them simply because the talent pool is weaker this time around.

Diehard
01-18-2012, 06:40 PM
i don't recall him as a first round pick, but at 5'9", he's undersized to start with.

Size and scheme... people saying he's go huge holes to run through because of the zone option and pace of the Oregon attack.

jCut
01-18-2012, 07:47 PM
Which one of those guys brings the pass rush we need inside? There are a lot of big, solid bodies there but I'm not convinced that's what we need. Worthy is the obvious fit but he's inconsistent. Brockers has big potential, but probably goes before we pick.

Maybe I'm selling some of these guys short, but it seems like we're overvaluing them simply because the talent pool is weaker this time around.

I'm not convinced any of the ones I mentioned are future stars either, but I'm also not sold on the available corners, Alfonzo Dennard or Janoris Jenkins. Or Vontaze Burfict at ILB.

Diehard
01-19-2012, 01:35 PM
McCoy cancels Raiders interview:

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19768569

Rumor has it the CU AHC / QB coach Rip Scherer is being lined up to join the Broncos staff if McCoy leaves:

http://www.milehighsports.com/?p=8267

I think Scherer would be a fine QB coach, but I'm not sold on Gase as OC. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Diehard
01-20-2012, 06:02 PM
oh god why... from cu? didn't anyone on the broncos staff watch our team last year? blech.

God granted your request - McCoy stays with us... unless the Raiders are willing to take a chance after he snubbed them.

Punisher
01-23-2012, 04:48 PM
Dennis Allen to the Raiders? He's on his 2nd interview w/ them.

Keeping Allen should be a major priority IMO.

jCut
01-24-2012, 11:52 AM
ok, so given that we never spend on free agency. and given that he wouldn't come here. etc.:

would you, if you were our GM, seriously pursue mario williams to play opposite doom and von?

Hell yes..........

Punisher
01-24-2012, 11:53 PM
Who do you guys think we should go after for our new D coordinator now with Allen gone?

CT Bronco Fan
01-24-2012, 11:57 PM
Who do you guys think we should go after for our new D coordinator now with Allen gone?

If I was a betting man I'd bet on Mike Trgovac.

jCut
01-25-2012, 09:51 AM
knowing the kind of contract it's going to take to sign him?

I'm not too worried about the money, but then again, I'm not Pat Bowlen. Take a look at the Giants and the way they've built their defense. They have four legit pass-rushers and they cycle them, keeping them fresh and consistent. Their linebackers and secondary are ok, but the strength of that defense is the edge rushers. If we add Mario Williams into the mix, we become great in one area on defense. And that is the foundation of a dominant defense, and the best way to counter the QB-friendly offenses of the NFL.

And I'm going to go with Jack Del Rio as the new DC. The two (Fox and Del Rio) have worked together before, back in Carolina.

Diehard
01-26-2012, 01:26 PM
And I'm going to go with Jack Del Rio as the new DC. The two (Fox and Del Rio) have worked together before, back in Carolina.

I'd like the see Del Rio as well, my only concern being how long will a guy with his kind of experience be content to be DC before he takes another shot at a HC gig.

Then again, Allen was only a DC for a year and look what happened there...

Timbathia
01-26-2012, 02:18 PM
I'd like the see Del Rio as well, my only concern being how long will a guy with his kind of experience be content to be DC before he takes another shot at a HC gig.

Then again, Allen was only a DC for a year and look what happened there...

Richard Smith? More continuity, has enough experience and unlikely to leave unless fired.

Diehard
01-26-2012, 05:36 PM
Richard Smith? More continuity, has enough experience and unlikely to leave unless fired.

My concern about that is this: if you thought Smith was DC material, why did you need to bring in Allen in the first place?

Cunningham
01-27-2012, 08:57 PM
del rio has been named the new defensive coordinator. i'm really happy with this, and i think that this offsets losing allen very nicely. not sure if this changes our offseason approach at all, but i hope that efx are more apt to spend money on free agents than they were last year.

Diehard
01-28-2012, 04:38 PM
Del Rio is a fine hire. He's a guy who's seen the benefit of impact DT play during his career as a coach... maybe he can convince the rest of the gang to put some significant resources into that position.

Diehard
01-28-2012, 04:49 PM
Interesting article from the DP:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_19822111

More specifics about their draft board than I've seen in the past.

The missing piece is how they come up with the combined board from the within-position ranks provided by the scouts.

Diehard
02-16-2012, 11:39 AM
Some minor adds:

OG C.J. Davis

https://twitter.com/#%21/RavensInsider/status/169909187764158464

WR Jason Hill

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2012/02/15/broncos-sign-former-jacksonville-wr-jason-hill/12179/

jCut
02-16-2012, 08:08 PM
Jason Hill might be a nice, under-the-radar addition.

Diehard
02-16-2012, 10:21 PM
Jason Hill might be a nice, under-the-radar addition.

He's got talent, but he's had problems with dropped passes... hmm, that seems like a rather familiar story.

Diehard
02-23-2012, 11:18 AM
blech. not liking all of the 'denver drafts a qb in round 2/3' crap.

Round 2 is the worst, IMO, unless it's a case of lack of need causing someone to slide substantially. Lots of legit starting talent in round 2 at some of the less valued positions (RB, OL, LB, etc).

As far as QB's go, either grab an immediate starter in round 1 or take a flyer on a developmental guy in the mid-late rounds.

Diehard
02-23-2012, 05:21 PM
that's where i'm at. anyone we draft, barring the case you mentioned, outside the first is almost by definition, not starting material.

I think the whole "QB completion in TC" is pretty much bogus anyway. Tebow will either be the guy or they will explicitly acquire his replacement in the draft or FA. After the QB mess last year, I think they will avoid any sort of ambiguity in this area.

Rcee
02-24-2012, 06:24 AM
sorta' curious if any of you have any 'crushes' that you'd love to see in a broncos uni.

i'm really diggin' some fletcher cox right now, and the more i watch lamar miller, the more i wouldn't mind grabbing him either. it's a shame we used 2 draft picks last year on TEs because i've developed quite the fondness for fleener and allen as well.

Jimmy
02-24-2012, 06:45 AM
sorta' curious if any of you have any 'crushes' that you'd love to see in a broncos uni.

i'm really diggin' some fletcher cox right now, and the more i watch lamar miller, the more i wouldn't mind grabbing him either. it's a shame we used 2 draft picks last year on TEs because i've developed quite the fondness for fleener and allen as well.

For a reasonable 2 year contract, Jason Campbell would be a great signing and he would give Tim an immediate slap in the ass to get moving. OR he would steal his job, fair and square. May the best quarterback start. Short term, it's a better solve than a late round guy, and we still need to add a second quarterback in the draft.

2. http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/2436947.jpg
Would provide excellent value in the 4-5 area, but something tells me he will be gone long before then. Probably my biggest draft crush aside from Chris Polk. If Polk doesn't run well in INDY, he has my endorsement for a round 3 plummet selection.

3. Janoris Jenkins- His hips don't lie. Not concerned with his character issues. I hope that he somehow gets to 25.
R06Kj8ACvIM&feature=related

4. Mark Barron- Won't fall to #25, but if he did... He'd most likely be the BPA. Without getting into details, I think he's one of the 10 best players in the draft.

Lamar Milller (and I think I've said this a bunch of times...) is another Tatum Bell, at least from what I've seen. He lacks a great change of direction on most plays. This isn't because he's physically incapable of making quick cuts, because he can actually stop on a dime. But because his vision isn't up to par. He will just as soon run into his blocker as he will make a one cut into a hole. Nobody can deny the fact that he has superior speed, but he plays about 5-10 pounds less than he weighs in. He goes down easily on a regular basis. Not a ton of leg drive. I think he needs to be treated like a Lamichael James, somebody who I think packs just as much power as Miller, but far most consistent elusiveness and ability to see the hole. Off to watch some highlights again.

If he puts on 5 pounds before the year and performs well in the positional drills and bench at indy, I wouldn't be incredibly opposed.

Rcee
02-24-2012, 01:31 PM
forgot about jenkins, he's probably my favorite possibility at 25.

not a lamichael fan. would prefer someone like rainey in the 4th as opposed to james in the 2nd.

Diehard
02-24-2012, 02:51 PM
not a lamichael fan. would prefer someone like rainey in the 4th as opposed to james in the 2nd.

I think LaMike would be a good fit as our second RB, but I'd like to see him slide into the 3rd before picking him up. I'd rather see our 2nd rounder used to acquire a starter.

Jimmy
02-25-2012, 11:21 AM
Guys that won't be there at 25, but should be taken if they are, based on value:

Kirkpatrick, Ingram, Kuechly, Kendall Wright, Devon Still, Cordy Glenn

If any of the following guys are there at #25, I think it's a no brainer as well.

I just really really hope we go BPA. None of these guys could hurt.

Diehard
02-27-2012, 04:40 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/02/27/combine/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a2



I think Denver picks a quarterback in the first two rounds


Hmm. That doesn't make sense to me unless we move Tebow. Even then, we have zero shot at the top 2 guys, so who is going to walk in and take the starter job? Weeden? Cousins? Osweiler? Tannehill has talent but he's a project... and is probably also long gone before we pick.

Diehard
02-27-2012, 05:04 PM
i would actually vomit. the only qb we should be taking in the first two rounds won't make it past the first pick.

I agree... and I am reminded that Peter King made this same prediction when we ended up taking Tebow. Perhaps he knows something we don't?

Diehard
02-27-2012, 08:30 PM
god i hope not. if we take some garbage like osweiler in the first, we'll be back to the #2 overall pick inside of 3 years.

I'm actually warming up to the Osweiler pick if the value is right. However, taking him in the first would be a serious reach. At the same time, it would definitely mean we've shipped Tebow out for picks as there's no way you could justify taking a guy early just to create some competition in TC.

Cunningham
02-28-2012, 09:07 PM
i have a feeling that one of either jenkins or kirkpatrick will fall to 25. gilmore's also intriguing, but it's hard to find a whole lot of info on the guy. also, what the ****, vontaze? what could've been...

I'm actually warming up to the Osweiler pick if the value is right. However, taking him in the first would be a serious reach. At the same time, it would definitely mean we've shipped Tebow out for picks as there's no way you could justify taking a guy early just to create some competition in TC.
taking osweiler anywhere before day three would be a serious reach, imo.

Diehard
02-29-2012, 01:00 AM
i would kill to get dre in the first. i wouldn't like his value in the top 15, but at 25? sign me up, especially with a couple of seasons to play under champ. realistically, i like the cbs that i think will be available for us a lot more than the DTs i expect to be available.

Unless there's a big run on DT's, we should have some choice at 25 if we're set on that position. The big potential guys (Poe, Brockers) will be gone, but that leaves plenty - Cox, Worthy, Still, Ta'amu, Thompson. Take your pick. Even better, trade back a bit and still have some choices.

I think defense will be solid at 25 as long as we aren't too picky about position. Offensive options will be a lot weaker - too many teams seem to be looking for playmakers on offense this time around.

Diehard
02-29-2012, 02:04 PM
i dunno, i don't really do mocks (or pay much attention at this point), but i have a feeling DT will be a hotter commodity, and i'm unconvinced some of those guys would have value at our pick (now, if we could trade back a bit, i'd be all for a guy like still). meh. it's march, i think FA will tell us a lot, pretty quickly.

I think the best approach would be to see if someone with really good value drops to 25, and if not, trade back a bit. We could use an extra 3rd, especially if we're going to burn a pick somewhere on a QB.

Having the Steelers picking right ahead of us is a bit annoying, as they have some very similar needs (OL, DL, CB, ILB). Makes the trade back situation a little more likely.

Jimmy
02-29-2012, 10:47 PM
i'd be in. i'd be happy to pitch our first for a first next year straight up, but that's mostly because i expect we'll need to draft a real qb next year and would want the ammo to move around if necessary.

Matt Barkley? Landry Jones? Tyler Bray? Aaron Murray?

Diehard
03-01-2012, 02:35 PM
Talking about the next draft like this isn't exactly inspiring my confidence about the coming season...

Anyway, the thinking is right:

If it is truly Tebow's year to sink or swim, look at drafting a QB early in 2013 if the sinking thing happens.

If you've already written off Tebow behind closed doors, then ship him out now and draft his replacement in 2012. Unfortunately, the talent pool and our draft position are not very favorable to this approach.

Taking a flyer on a guy mid-late in this year's draft is fine either way, as you need someone to groom as a backup (or more than that if you get lucky).

Timbathia
03-01-2012, 06:25 PM
Someone go get Bush.

Jimmy
03-02-2012, 08:11 AM
Someone go get Bush.

Do want. As long as we don't overpay, I think it would be a solid addition. Still think there's a ton of talent at RB in the 2nd-4th round that we need to consider.

Also, what are our feelings regarding going after positions of lesser importance with early picks if they are the BPA?

e.g. wideout and defensive end and safety. If the BPA truly is at one of those lesser needed places, do we take the guy anway? Guys like Vinny Curry, Mohammed Sanu are incredible talents, but likely won't be there at 57. Would we pull the trigger despite a lack of need if they somehow were?

or, what if a guy like Kendall Wright/Mark Barron/Perry fell to 25?

Jimmy
03-02-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm actually terrified that we had some part in a saints type bounty program, and that we'll get found out and lose picks.

Diehard
03-02-2012, 10:48 PM
I'm actually terrified that we had some part in a saints type bounty program, and that we'll get found out and lose picks.

Maybe, but the link was weak and already severed now that Allen is in Oakland.

I think if the NFL brings the hammer down on the Saints that will be enough to deliver the message. A league-wide witch hunt involving every team touched by Williams and his assistants isn't going to be productive.

Diehard
03-02-2012, 11:13 PM
Also, what are our feelings regarding going after positions of lesser importance with early picks if they are the BPA?

I'm on board with BPA. We need difference-makers.

However, if that's the case then I think you can rule out QB, WR, TE and RB at 25:

* top 3 QB's will be long gone
* only solid 1st rounders I have at WR are Blackmon and Floyd
* no TE is worth a 1st
* Richardson goes early, Lamar Miller goes to Cincy

So that leaves OL, DL, LB, S, CB as the potential slide positions. We could use help at all these spots so I think we are in pretty good shape.

Jimmy
03-03-2012, 07:40 AM
I'm on board with BPA. We need difference-makers.

However, if that's the case then I think you can rule out QB, WR, TE and RB at 25:

* top 3 QB's will be long gone
* only solid 1st rounders I have at WR are Blackmon and Floyd
* no TE is worth a 1st
* Richardson goes early, Lamar Miller goes to Cincy

So that leaves OL, DL, LB, S, CB as the potential slide positions. We could use help at all these spots so I think we are in pretty good shape.

I'm not sold with this whole Tannehill going in the top 15 thing. Absolutely nothing this kid has done has warranted him as a top 15 pick, although everyone and their mothers generally agree he's a lock in the 1st. Dare I say, NJX, that Tannehill has a slight leg up on Gabbert as a prospect. In any event, If KC, Seattle and Arizona pass up on him, he would technically be passed up until the second round, unless we took him or someone traded up for him. If he take him, I will cry blood.

Lamar Miller isn't that good anyway, perhaps for the best.

Anyway, at this point my favorite is Cordy Glenn / Mark Barron .

Diehard
03-03-2012, 10:47 AM
I'm not sold with this whole Tannehill going in the top 15 thing. Absolutely nothing this kid has done has warranted him as a top 15 pick, although everyone and their mothers generally agree he's a lock in the 1st.

Yeah, he hasn't done much but his potential is the draw. I think he's gone by the teens. If he starts to slide I can see someone trading in to grab him. If he makes it to 25 the Broncos will probably do something stupid and my brain will explode.

Lamar Miller isn't that good anyway, perhaps for the best.

He's a speed back. He'll be overdrafted because of it. I'd happily take him with our 2nd rounder, but that won't be an option. Doesn't really matter because there will be plenty of good options for offensive skill guys in round 2.

Anyway, at this point my favorite is Cordy Glenn / Mark Barron .

I think those are both pretty good guesses. Even with the new rookie contracts, the positional value will still discourage teams from taking interior OL or SS early. Barron fits the description well (tough, smart, team leader, good tackler) but as njx said, can we justify burning yet another early pick on a safety?

Timbathia
03-03-2012, 02:59 PM
I think those are both pretty good guesses. Even with the new rookie contracts, the positional value will still discourage teams from taking interior OL or SS early. Barron fits the description well (tough, smart, team leader, good tackler) but as njx said, can we justify burning yet another early pick on a safety?

if the brass dont think the safetys we currently have are good enough, then we have to bring in another one. The previous picks are gone so really it is irrelevant how many we have used recently on that positiom. Looking at the roster now, if a special safety was available we could use them.

Timbathia
03-03-2012, 08:28 PM
see, but that's my problem with it. do we really have any idea what we have? half of them have played one year, a couple have played 2 years. is that enough to get a read, and to basically give up on them? is barron good enough that it doesn't matter what we have?

I dont know the answer to any of those questions. Hopefully EFX does, but my point remains that IF Barron is considered a significant upgrade then we shouldnt avoid him just because we have taken a heap of safetys in the last few drafts.

At this stage ALL of the recent ones we have taken look like special teamers. I dont see them at practice or know what they were supposed to be doing each play. I really havent seen anywhere near enough to know if any of them can make the jump to quality starter level.

Timbathia
03-03-2012, 08:33 PM
i assume we're talking about michael bush? meh. why? he fits no role (see: mcgahee).


Willis had 250 out of 550 carries last year and got nicked up a lot. Even if he stays that healthy next season, which is best case scenario, there is still 200 carries for Bush and a hundred for a third down or speed back.

He isnt worth breaking the bank for, unless Willis couldnt go, but I think he would be very useful.

Diehard
03-04-2012, 11:02 AM
Willis had 250 out of 550 carries last year and got nicked up a lot. Even if he stays that healthy next season, which is best case scenario, there is still 200 carries for Bush and a hundred for a third down or speed back.

He isnt worth breaking the bank for, unless Willis couldnt go, but I think he would be very useful.

If we are looking to replace McGahee, then definitely bring Bush in. But having both on the roster seems like a lot of the same. I'd rather see a fast guy in the 2nd RB spot, with the 3rd RB being well-rounded enough to spell either spot.

Anyway, I'm almost certain we'll end up with a RB in the draft. Whether they are the complement to McGahee or his eventual successor remains to be seen.

Diehard
03-08-2012, 10:23 AM
So I've seem three sources (Lombardi, Schefter, Freeman) say that Denver is one of the main players in the Manning hunt.

Does Elway remember how a powerful run game gave him two Championships at the end of his career? I think he does. I can actually see this working if they play their cards right. For example, on offense add:

Manning / Wayne / FA TE / Draft RB / Draft OL

That would leave the majority of draft picks to build the defense.

Whether or not we keep Tebow is a bit of a zero sum equation, because if they trade him you know they'll just draft another QB to groom behind Manning.

Of course, everything depends on a clean bill of health for Manning and a committment to protecting him with a solid OL / potent run game.

FlyingElvis
03-08-2012, 10:30 AM
Just posted in another thread, so plz excuse the lazy quote:

As for Denver . . .

If Peyton (via his daddy :sarcastic:) didn't want to be on the same team as Andrew Luck, what makes any of you think it's even remotely possible he would join the Tebow circus?

The only way he goes to Denver is if Tebow is shipped somewhere else.

FlyingElvis
03-08-2012, 10:37 AM
I agree there's a difference but think the pressure is all on Peyton, regardless. Having a big name "backup" has to be a concern for a guy his age w/potential arm strength concerns. Basically, I think he ends up looking over his shoulder with Tebow, too, and that just isn't happening. He'll have too many options available to choose a situation like that over Arizona or Seattle, where the QB options have proven they can't win.

Diehard
03-08-2012, 10:50 AM
Vic Lombari touched on this in his report on the Manning situation.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/video/6821983-broncos-interested-in-manning/

I tend to agree with him that Tebow would be traded in this situation:

1. Tebow's value is relatively high after our playoff run

2. Tebow was never Elway's guy, so this provides a good excuse to move him

3. Peyton won't want Tebow looking over his shoulder

Bascially, the team gets the kind of passing attack they want (Peyton does the P/A as well as anyone) while resolving the internal dilemma re: Tebow. I can see that being a very appealing solution.

Jimmy
03-08-2012, 02:39 PM
Vic Lombari touched on this in his report on the Manning situation.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/video/6821983-broncos-interested-in-manning/

I tend to agree with him that Tebow would be traded in this situation:

1. Tebow's value is relatively high after our playoff run

2. Tebow was never Elway's guy, so this provides a good excuse to move him

3. Peyton won't want Tebow looking over his shoulder

Bascially, the team gets the kind of passing attack they want (Peyton does the P/A as well as anyone) while resolving the internal dilemma re: Tebow. I can see that being a very appealing solution.

It would be somewhat of a cleansing feeling, at least in my opinion, if this were to unfold.

By no means is Manning "the future" of any franchise. He has 4 years left in his tank. I still think that he will elevate relatively any team he signs with into Superbowl contenders.

As much as I want to see him succeed, my humble opinion is that Tebow will not be an effective NFL quarterback from this point on. I am in the minority, but I am led to believe the EFX troop is on my side.

There are a few reasons why I think Peyton could end up in Denver:

1. Many of his other destinations have negatives attached to them

Washington- This would involve playing against his brother 2 times a year. He reportedly wants to avoid this if possible. He also would like to stay in the AFC.

“A couple of different sources inside the organization have told me that Manning’s camp made it pretty clear to Redskins officials he doesn’t want to come here,” Russell said Thursday on SportsCenter (via ProFootball.com). "… There’s lots of reasons for that. His brother Eli, the colder weather, the whole situation down in Miami and so on and so forth. But unless that changes -- and I’m taking my sources at their word -- I don’t think Manning’s coming here to D.C.”



Read into that, and it's clear that Peyton isn't a fan of cold weather. So maybe Denver isn't the place he ends up, or Washington. Maybe Miami is the spot.

2. Miami
There's also the chance that he doesn't want to go up against Tom Brady 2 times a year, but that does not seem to be as strong of a deterrent as playing his brother. It depends on how much another ring matters to the guy.

All in all, I have no objections to signing Peyton Manning if he somehow ends up here. We should eat his enormous salary for 2-3 years. He's proven what he can turn a ****** club into. We'd have a legitimate chance to get to the super bowl, and we'd improve our odds twofold to win the division, regardless of our other shortcomings.

I'm a firm believer that a solid QB is, by far, the best way to win a division.

2. Tebow is in no way, shape or form, an obstacle to Manning getting here.
Elway doesn't want him, let's not fool ourselves with a single quote.

Sloopy
03-08-2012, 02:47 PM
I encourage you all to check out my latest four round mock :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51453

Jimmy
03-08-2012, 02:54 PM
I encourage you all to check out my latest four round mock :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51453


25. Denver Broncos – Michael Brockers DT LSU: The Tebow era is in full swing in Denver. Since Elway won’t be able to convince anyone of drafting a QB (especially this late) he will go BPA at a position of need to try and improve the overall talent level of the team. Brockers will be an impact player on the interior of that DL and add another element to that already mean defense.

25. Denver Broncos – LaMichael James RB Oregon: There may be no better fit in this draft than James to the Broncos. Certainly will add another wrinkle to this unorthodox offense.

Denver Broncos – Leonard Johnson CB Iowa State: Hurst himself a bit in the combine but I think he will be a steal here and it would be nice to get some promising youth into that secondary

25. Denver Broncos – Donte Paige-Moss DE North Carolina: This Tarheel comes with some baggage and this might be a bit early for him as a selection but was once considered a first rounder and might be worth the risk at this point in the draft.



You're going to make NJX happy, I can tell you that.

I'm not a huge LMJ fan, don't think he'd be the BRA before the mid 3rd. I'd rather see someone with a little more meat on their bones, a typical Fox/Studesville back. I don't see how we don't pull the trigger on Lamar Miller or Doug Martin in late round 2, though. I almost want to say that you forgot about Miller in your draft and slipped him in a little late. Not to say that I particularly love him.

Diehard
03-08-2012, 03:01 PM
There are a few reasons why I think Peyton could end up in Denver:

1. Many of his other destinations have negatives attached to them

Apparently, Washington is out. The brother-vs-brother thing appears to hold significant weight.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/report-manning-doesnt-want-to-play-for-the-redskins/

Russell appeared on SportsCenter Thursday and, citing multiple sources, reported that Manning doesn’t want to play in the nation’s capital and has already informed the team.

Looks like Miami and Denver in the lead right now.

2. Tebow is in no way, shape or form, an obstacle to Manning getting here.
Elway doesn't want him, let's not fool ourselves with a single quote.

Agreed. As I said earlier, it actually solves the Tebow problem for the team.

I encourage you all to check out my latest four round mock :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51453

Nice work. I'll post comments in the thread.

Jimmy
03-08-2012, 03:01 PM
i don't buy lamar miller as being all that good.

regarding peyton, i don't want a 38 year old, broken qb if it precludes in any way whatsoever, us drafting one next year.

As someone who has previously compared Lamar to Tatum, neither do I. But I still recognize that most people think he has enormous potential. I think round 3 is about a round too late.

Peyton Manning- I think drafting a 36 year old, broken (but soon to be cleared) QB (who probably still has it) is a great move, and would improve our chances of drafting a young QB

1. It improves the likelihood that we get rid of TT enormous (this ties into #4)
2. It reduces the need for a veteran QB
3. It makes drafting a young QB so much more logical and appealing - throwing a quarterback better than Jim Sorgi under the arms of one of the best film hawks ever can only help.
4. Your starting QB is 36 years old. You have to consider the future soon.

Edit: Added bonus, we get rid of all the Gainesville Transplants
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/dancing/smith4.gif

Diehard
03-08-2012, 04:16 PM
the only other reason i'm scared of picking up peyton is because i think his play-calling has been terrible over the last few years. if he's willing to play in a more run-dominant offense, then i have less reservations in that regard.

If I was Elway, I'd be selling Peyton on the same thing that worked at the end of Elway's career - go heavy on the run game to soften up the defense and take pressure off Peyton, then take some shots downfield. I think this is the offense Fox wants to run anyway.

Jimmy
03-08-2012, 04:21 PM
If I was Elway, I'd be selling Peyton on the same thing that worked at the end of Elway's career - go heavy on the run game to soften up the defense and take pressure off Peyton, then take some shots downfield. I think this is the offense Fox wants to run anyway.

Who would be our TD?



the only other reason i'm scared of picking up peyton is because i think his play-calling has been terrible over the last few years. if he's willing to play in a more run-dominant offense, then i have less reservations in that regard.

back to the TD thing... we get into the issue of a run heavy scheme without a future back.

would you be ok with moreno getting 10 carries a game and mcgahee 15? i say **** that. moreno is a #3 back at best from the standpoint that the nfl is now a 2 back league and you don't want him touching the ball.

Do you prefer someone other than lamichael if we take peyton? like an edgerrin/td type back who can do a little of everything? *cough*turbin*cough

Jimmy
03-08-2012, 05:40 PM
either way, moreno should've been released 3 weeks ago.

What I'm about to say is almost the quivalent of saying that we should extend BQ's contract to 2 years 2 million.

you can almost make the case that Knowshon is worth his 2012 salary numbers
Base salary of 855k, 832k signing bonus, totaling 1.687 mil against the cap in '12.

that's almost reasonable for a 3rd string running back. As far as what he deserves, though, he should have been cut 3 weeks ago.

also, let's just all take some time to laugh-


could you imagine ponying up the money to pay him without an injury clause...shipping out Tebow and then watching Manning go down in Week 5??

could set the franchise back 5 years or so? scary thought

:rofl: associating setting a franchise back 5 years and getting rid of tebow

not to say i'm not rooting for him.

Timbathia
03-08-2012, 05:52 PM
If Manning turns up in Denver and plays well, then I will be happy very quickly.

That being said, it feels all wrong to think about Manning and potentially Reggie Wayne turning up here. We spent several years trying to put together a defense specifically to STOP these guys (obviously we failed miserably). I have never been overly fond of legends moving franchise and to be honest would rather it didnt happen here.

Jimmy
03-08-2012, 05:53 PM
i have to imagine the mane is in a frenzy over losing tebow.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/6/24/128903747407067803.jpg
so Manning plays defense now too?



GB put up 49 on us.
DET put up 45 on us.
MIN put up 32 on us.
NE put up 41 and 45 on us.
BUF put up 40 on us.

we need help on defense. spending money on Manning and satisfying his additional offensive requirements would set this franchise back at least 5 or 6 years.

Why do people think it is logical to kick Tebow to the curb or trade him for Manning when the Colts themselves aren't doing that either... and Manning gave them his whole career...

And regardless of the hype... Andrew Luck is far far less proven than Tebow... the only reason Luck is so hyped is because he hasn't had the opportunity to get exposed that Tebow faced all through college and in the NFL.

Yet people act as if you would be nuts to let Manning go and play Tebow instead.. the Colts are doing that with Luck...

Gabbert is the Prototype. He's a hell of a lot closer to what Elway has hinted he's looking for than Tebow.

Sign Manning, trade for Gabbert to study him?

How about Tim for Gabbert and and a pick/picks. We let Gabbert sit behind Manning for a few years and see what he can do. Or maybe draft a QB in the third.

Either way I don't see this happening.

Sloopy
03-08-2012, 07:54 PM
You're going to make NJX happy, I can tell you that.

I'm not a huge LMJ fan, don't think he'd be the BRA before the mid 3rd. I'd rather see someone with a little more meat on their bones, a typical Fox/Studesville back. I don't see how we don't pull the trigger on Lamar Miller or Doug Martin in late round 2, though. I almost want to say that you forgot about Miller in your draft and slipped him in a little late. Not to say that I particularly love him.

I definitely didn't forget him (Forgot Reuben though)

As I explained in my mock:

I have Miller as the #4 RB on my board but he went as the 5th off the board because I really do like LaMichael James to you guys.

Add in the fact that I personally don't really value the RB position early in the draft (With few exceptions) and I think he falls pretty far on draft day.

Diehard
03-08-2012, 10:44 PM
gabbert? :sarcastic:

this is the problem with team-specific forums.

The Mane is particularly bad. Too much douchebaggery, posturing and pettiness. There are some sharp football guys there (Khan, EddieMac) but their posts get drowned in the morass of crap.

Jimmy, I notice you've taken another shot at raising the quality of football discussion there. Just avoid getting baited and drawn into the ****... remember that's the craft they've been honing over there at the expense of actual football talk.

Jimmy
03-09-2012, 06:15 AM
The Mane is particularly bad. Too much douchebaggery, posturing and pettiness. There are some sharp football guys there (Khan, EddieMac) but their posts get drowned in the morass of crap.

Jimmy, I notice you've taken another shot at raising the quality of football discussion there. Just avoid getting baited and drawn into the ****... remember that's the craft they've been honing over there at the expense of actual football talk.

It's my charity work. Managed to go a whole two weeks without having a colossal blow-up and, remarkably, some people actually aren't so bad. Unless Tebow goes, there is no way I last past the off-season, though. I'll probably snap at jhns or somebody with equal lack of brain tissue.

Also, thoughts on Peyton "Covert-Ops" Hillis rejoining the team? I have my opinions, I'll just save them for later.

http://i.imgur.com/KEBk7.jpg

Diehard
03-09-2012, 11:47 AM
I don't see Hillis coming back. He left under a dark cloud and his actions in Cleveland didn't exactly paint him as a team-first kind of guy.

I think drafting a RB somewhere in rounds 2-5 is probably going to give you a lot more bang for your buck. Maybe look at someone like Vick Ballard to give you that more physical running style.

We've also still got Mario Fannin who looked pretty decent in TC last year before he got injured.

Diehard
03-09-2012, 04:41 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/VicLombardi/status/178247731926679552

Six games each for violating the substance abuse policy.

EDIT: Virgil Green got 4 as well

Some roster trimming is being done for us, it seems. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Jimmy
03-09-2012, 04:44 PM
http://twitter.com/#!/VicLombardi/status/178247731926679552

Six games each for violating the substance abuse policy.

They're suing, I hope it is overturned.

Diehard
03-09-2012, 04:55 PM
meh, nothing of value was lost.

True:

* DJ was already on thin ice and has Woodyard waiting to take his spot

* McBean was a FA anyway

* Green going gives us an open TE slot to bring in Dallas Clark... ;)