Denver Broncos Discussion

[Timbathia]

Who is all excited for the game tonight ? I am for one stoked.Sadly I gotta watch it on my dam phone ( NFL mobile ) Should be a fun game tonight to see young Tebow light up the Bangles and prove everyone !

lets not get ahead of ourselves. Orton looked good, and hopefully Tebow doesnt suck as hard as Quinn just did.

[Bengals78]

Orton looked like Orton tonight. Great game managing, nothing spectacular. He fits the offense well.
Tebow still has his wind up on the deep throw.
Your LB Atkins looks promising as a back up.

[b316]

Who is all excited for the game tonight ? I am for one stoked.Sadly I gotta watch it on my dam phone ( NFL mobile ) Should be a fun game tonight to see young Tebow light up the Bangles and prove everyone !

Boy he is lighting it up.

Still can't believe he went in the first...he is going to be a long project.

[Bengals78]

Boy he is lighting it up.

Still can't believe he went in the first...he is going to be a long project.

Not his fault the Bengals showed up and that Bangles team got stuck in traffic

[sbh15]

tebow looked pretty damn good, albiet against the 3rd team defense

[Bengals78]

tebow looked pretty damn good, albiet against the 3rd team defense

He looked good against a prevent. They gave him the sides and the underneath with only a 4 man rush.

He looked like he had a slow throwing motion still. Made some decent throws. But really looked lost reading blitzes.

Plus the bonehead run at the end.

[Timbathia]

We learned tonight what we already basically knew. Orton has been great in camp, understands the offense and is making good decisions. Quinn and Tebow have a long way to go. Anyone that expected Tebow to look like an NFL QB tonight really, really knows nothing about football.

[Bengals78]

We learned tonight what we already basically knew. Orton has been great in camp, understands the offense and is making good decisions. Quinn and Tebow have a long way to go. Anyone that expected Tebow to look like an NFL QB tonight really, really knows nothing about football.

I am more worried about his decision making with the ball in terms of running. That last run was dumb. 3 seconds in game you are down by 2 scores and he does that? First preseason game too. I want the kid to succeed but plays like that shorten careers.

[b316]

I am more worried about his decision making with the ball in terms of running. That last run was dumb. 3 seconds in game you are down by 2 scores and he does that? First preseason game too. I want the kid to succeed but plays like that shorten careers.

Shows me is going to go out and win, and that he has the balls to do what it takes to win. Hey he could get injured by pulling up and getting hit.

[sbh15]

Shows me is going to go out and win, and that he has the balls to do what it takes to win. Hey he could get injured by pulling up and getting hit.

i agree with this. didn't you guys see his teammates surround him and give him some props? if he's willing to go that hard in the pre-season, he'll earn a lot of respect, and fast. he shows that he doesn't care what the situation, he wants to win.

[Bengals78]

The will to win a game that cannot be won and it is a preseason game above all else?

I never said pull up. He should have slid.

[Timbathia]

I am more worried about his decision making with the ball in terms of running. That last run was dumb. 3 seconds in game you are down by 2 scores and he does that? First preseason game too. I want the kid to succeed but plays like that shorten careers.

Decision making is exactly what rookie QBs need to develop when they get to the NFL. The game is quicker, hence less time to make decisions. He needs to learn what he can and cant do, should and shouldnt do. For a third string rookie QB that is trying to prove himself, erring on the side of doing a tough silly thing is better than squealing and dropping to the ground.

[Bengals78]

Fine. But I won't feel bad if he does it against a better S than Herbet and gets injured.

[njx9]

brady quinn, still one of the worst qbs in the league.

at least we still have no running game. or special teams. or secondary (at least from the 2nd on).

[Timbathia]

brady quinn, still one of the worst qbs in the league.

at least we still have no running game. or special teams. or secondary (at least from the 2nd on).

that third CB spot looks like it will haunt us again this year.

punting/coverage was god awful


All I am taking from this game is 2010 first preseason game Orton >>>> 2009 first preseason game Orton.......this is a good thing.

[Bengals78]

Orton was impressive.

[njx9]

i didn't see when he was in, but it sounds all right.

reggie rivers shouldn't ever announce another game.

i'm also entertained by tebow's 'reformed' throwing motion.

[Me Likey Rookies]

brady quinn, still one of the worst qbs in the league.

at least we still have no running game. or special teams. or secondary (at least from the 2nd on).

Yes Quinn sucked.

Running game had Moreno, Buckhalter, Clady, Kuper out. Can't blame McD for not running the ball.

Perrish Cox should be the #3 CB.

[Diehard]

brady quinn, still one of the worst qbs in the league.

at least we still have no running game. or special teams. or secondary (at least from the 2nd on).

Quinn isn't giving me much hope either, but it seems like bringing him pushed Orton to take his game up a notch.

Anyway, don't get too carried away with the negativity. Our starting offense and defense both looked good... even with a number of backups plugged in to cover injuries. That is very encouraging.

[njx9]

Quinn isn't giving me much hope either, but it seems like bringing him pushed Orton to take his game up a notch.

Anyway, don't get too carried away with the negativity. Our starting offense and defense both looked good... even with a number of backups plugged in to cover injuries. That is very encouraging.

to be fair, i messed up the the game start, so i missed all the starters. my critcism is entirely after quinn came in for the first time.

[Diehard]

to be fair, i messed up the the game start, so i missed all the starters. my critcism is entirely after quinn came in for the first time.

Ah, then I understand your discontent. Too bad you missed the start, because Orton, the receivers and Champ made some nice plays. We looked better than Cincy (which is why we went up 14-0 with starters in). That surprised me a bit as 1) we were missing a number of our top players, and 2) Cincy already had a preseason game under their belts.

[njx9]

did beadles start? i didn't hear his name at all... i need to find the quinn fumbles and see if it was him or walton...

[Timbathia]

did beadles start? i didn't hear his name at all... i need to find the quinn fumbles and see if it was him or walton...

Walton and Beadles played the entire game. They wont for the rest of the preseason, but apparently McDaniels wanted them to have one full game under their belt before the season started. Seems like they are locked in as starters already.

[njx9]

i'm assuming then, that there weren't any missteps between walton and orton, so i guess i can feel safe in chalking the fumbles up to more brady quinn inability.

anyone get a good look at beadles? i felt like he was yet another crappy robert ayers-esque pick, but even a crappy fit at guard is better than anything we played there last year.

[Diehard]

anyone get a good look at beadles? i felt like he was yet another crappy robert ayers-esque pick, but even a crappy fit at guard is better than anything we played there last year.

IMO, Beadles has been doing pretty well. Both he and Walton held up against Cincy's starters. Both have been getting a good push in the running game. Of course there are some rookie mistakes, particularly in pass protect.

Another encouraging development for the OL is that Batiste is showing that he can be effective as the backup LT, which we definitely need with Clady still on the mend. Not having to rely on Polumbus, who can't pass protect to save his life, is a bit of a relief.

[njx9]

i don't know how many WRs we're going to keep, but i want willis to be one of them. also, can we just cut quinn already? i'd rather get ramsey back.

[CT Bronco Fan]

i don't know how many WRs we're going to keep, but i want willis to be one of them. also, can we just cut quinn already? i'd rather get ramsey back.

Quinn is terrible for sure. But would you be comfortable with just Tebow as the backup?

I can see Willis making the team. Assuming we keep 6, Willis can prob make it. If we only keep 5, It'd be pretty shocking to see him as the 5th. We might even keep 7 with how stacked we are at WR.

Sure Ins:
Jabar Gaffney
Eddie Royal
Eric Decker
Demaryius Thomas

Likely:
Brandon Lloyd

On the Bubble:
Brandon Stokley
Matthew Willis

[njx9]

Quinn is terrible for sure. But would you be comfortable with just Tebow as the backup?

I can see Willis making the team. Assuming we keep 6, Willis can prob make it. If we only keep 5, It'd be pretty shocking to see him as the 5th. We might even keep 7 with how stacked we are at WR.

Sure Ins:
Jabar Gaffney
Eddie Royal
Eric Decker
Demaryius Thomas

Likely:
Brandon Lloyd

On the Bubble:
Brandon Stokley
Matthew Willis

ew, brandon "can't catch/don't want to run" lloyd. another guy i'd love to cut immediately.

and i think i'd be more comfortable with just tebow than with quinn having any possibility of coming into a game.

[Timbathia]

Nice to note that Ayers and Moss both got sacks yesterday. Hopefully even though against backups in the preseason, it gives them a taste for it.

We need to really hope that DJ and Mario stay healthy this season, as the backup LB options look awful.

Clady being back at full strength is essential if we want to have any success this season.

The Broncos may be more dependent on one player than any other team in the NFL. If Orton gets a season ending injury, there is an awesome chance we wouldnt win a game. With him and good luck elsewhere, I can still see us winning half of them. Maybe the Colts win-loss depends on Manning more???

[njx9]

meh. our linebackers are awful even if the starters stay healthy. i'm also really hoping our disgusting pass rush is entirely due to the irrational fear that someone will steal our schemes, and that it's not indicative of another year of trying to get pressure with three mediocre linemen again.

and fricking jarvis moss. gets in, makes a great play, then starts celebrating while the ball is being fumbled. he had no idea the play was even still going on.

[Timbathia]

meh. our linebackers are awful even if the starters stay healthy. i'm also really hoping our disgusting pass rush is entirely due to the irrational fear that someone will steal our schemes, and that it's not indicative of another year of trying to get pressure with three mediocre linemen again.

and fricking jarvis moss. gets in, makes a great play, then starts celebrating while the ball is being fumbled. he had no idea the play was even still going on.

It seems that we are playing a lot of simple base stuff on both sides just to resolve a few starting spots, practicing situational stuff and evaluating which of the backups to keep. We appear to be making very little effort at all to win.

While I prefer players to act like they have been there before, I think Moss getting to the QB is a good start. If half of the positive talk about him from the clubhouse turns into reality this season we may not be as ****** as we thought we were when Doom went down (I know, I know, I am clutching at straws even wishing that Moss can replace a third of Dooms production).

[njx9]

i didn't really even mind the celebrating, i mean, whatever. it's the preseason and i think it's stupid, but that's mostly irrelevant. what annoyed me was the celebration *during* a live play, when he should have been back trying to recover the fumble. it's like, this is **** you should learn in junior high. you celebrate after the whistle.

[Diehard]

It seems that we are playing a lot of simple base stuff on both sides just to resolve a few starting spots, practicing situational stuff and evaluating which of the backups to keep. We appear to be making very little effort at all to win.

This. Also, lots of injuries so we still haven't seen anything close to our true starting 22 yet.

However, I share njx's concerns about the LB corps. Unless some of the new additions really step up, it will be our weakness this year. This goes beyond just pass rush... the inside play is critical to stopping those long runs that really killed us at the end of last year.

[49erNation85]

Does any one have any info on if Tebow is playing 2mrw night ? I hope he so I can get a chance to watch him live this week .

[Timbathia]

Does any one have any info on if Tebow is playing 2mrw night ? I hope he so I can get a chance to watch him live this week .

Orton will play into the third quarter, so with Quinn still in front of Tebow I doubt they will risk him for such a short amount of playing time. Next week he should get almost a half.

[Jimmy]

i think all of you understand why I have had (still have) the most effing enormous man crush on perrish cox for the last 6 months now.

[Timbathia]

Ayers may not be a lost cause after all.

[Timbathia]

Sydquan is making a decent case for Phonz's roster spot. Interesting to see if McD pulls the trigger and cuts him.

[Diehard]

i think all of you understand why I have had (still have) the most effing enormous man crush on perrish cox for the last 6 months now.

That pick has turned out pretty well. Hopefully he can keep out of trouble.

Our secondary is looking like an area of strength. A lot of good young players backing up the savvy veterans.

Ayers may not be a lost cause after all.

Agreed - he looks pretty strong out there... which is good because we really need him to step up with Doom out. Hunter (#52), the DE/OLB we picked up from Detriot, also made some nice plays against the Steelers.

[Diehard]

Sydquan is making a decent case for Phonz's roster spot. Interesting to see if McD pulls the trigger and cuts him.

Syd'quan better make the roster. He's got potential at CB and can definitely help as a returner while he develops as a defensive player.

I think the team likes Vaughn as well, which definitely makes the decision about who gets cut a difficult one. I think Vaughn ends up on the PS... I don't think they can try that trick with Syd'quan (especially after tonight). My guess is it will end up like this:

4 safeties - Hill, Dawkins, McBath, Bruton
5 corners - Champ, Goodman, Cox, Smith, Thompson

Carter joins Vaughn on the PS. Nate Jones gets cut for being outplayed by rookies.

[Jimmy]

Sydquan is making a decent case for Phonz's roster spot. Interesting to see if McD pulls the trigger and cuts him.

i would be so happy if we could grow some balls as an organization and cut our losses and get the sting of Alphonso over with before it becomes any more blatantly obvious that he was never worth a 1st round pick, let alone 5th. What does the guy even bring to the table? he's undersized, outmatched physically, too slow, and is mentally handicapped. I was one of those guys who was high on him but at this point.. meh

[Timbathia]

Syd'quan better make the roster. He's got potential at CB and can definitely help as a returner while he develops as a defensive player.

I think the team likes Vaughn as well, which definitely makes the decision about who gets cut a difficult one. I think Vaughn ends up on the PS... I don't think they can try that trick with Syd'quan (especially after tonight). My guess is it will end up like this:

4 safeties - Hill, Dawkins, McBath, Bruton
5 corners - Champ, Goodman, Cox, Smith, Thompson

Carter joins Vaughn on the PS. Nate Jones gets cut for being outplayed by rookies.

I wouldnt disagree or have a problem with what you are saying, though on paper it looks risky to go into a season with a 5th round rookie, a 7th round rookie and a prime candidate for an epic bust as your three back-up corners. Not that Jones is anything even resembling a good corner, but at least he has played in the NFL before.

[Timbathia]

i would be so happy if we could grow some balls as an organization and cut our losses and get the sting of Alphonso over with before it becomes any more blatantly obvious that he was never worth a 1st round pick, let alone 5th. What does the guy even bring to the table? he's undersized, outmatched physically, too slow, and is mentally handicapped. I was one of those guys who was high on him but at this point.. meh

I would like to see more before we cut him as I dont think he has been awful so far this preseason - i still hold out that he could become decent. However, it is becoming more difficult to justify keeping a roster spot for him with the two new rookies showing signs.

[Diehard]

I would like to see more before we cut him as I dont think he has been awful so far this preseason - i still hold out that he could become decent.

In fact, he played pretty well tonight. The PI call against him was straight-up ********. I wish he could've finished in the backfield (then we'd be talking about the great night he had) still, his blitzing disrupted the offense and allowed others to make the plays.

[njx9]

i'm all in for keeping thompson around. and even in his limited action tonight, alphonso was bound and determined to prove he doesn't have any business holding a roster spot in this league.

on the other hand, it should be blindingly obvious that tebow's throwing motion won't ever change, given that he actually regressed from the first game.

i'm a little upset about ball having a few good runs. he's not final roster material (yes, i get the injury thing), but now he'll probably end up making it. to be fair, though, i'd rather keep him than lendale/fargas.

kyle orton... y'all were right. i hadn't had a chance to actually see him throwing, but his arm looks a million times better.

impressive catch aside, brandon lloyd needs to be cut. i don't like his routes. i don't trust his hands. i think he's a douchebag on the field. i could go on.

sad to say, but outside of ayers, our linebackers were garbage. dj williams was/is absolutely horrible. he has no idea what to do in a zone, his first step is wrong on 97% of the snaps he's in for. **** shanahan for ruining one of the best WLBs in the league.

[CT Bronco Fan]

Here is my projected 53 man roster.

QB: (2) Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow
RB: (3) Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, Lance Ball
FB: (1) Spencer Larsen
WR: (7) Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Eddie Royal, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, Matthew Willis
TE: (3) Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson
OL: (8 ) Ryan Clady, Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Paul Duncan, Ross Hochstein, Stanley Daniels

DL: (8 ) Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, Ryan McBean, Ronald Fields, Jarvis Green, Marcus Thomas, LeKevin Smith, Chris Baker
LB: (8 ) D.J. Williams, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, Wesley Woodyard, Mario Haggan, Joe Mays, Jason Hunter, Elvis Dumervil
CB: (6) Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman, Perrish Cox, Alphonso Smith, Syd'Quan Thompson, Nate Jones
S: (4) Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath, David Bruton

ST: (3) Matt Prater, Britton Colquitt, Lonnie Paxton

Suspended: LenDale White

~
Close Calls:
Brady Quinn
Seth Olsen
Eric Olsen
Baraka Atkins

[CT Bronco Fan]

Fargas cut, lol

[Timbathia]

i'm all in for keeping thompson around. and even in his limited action tonight, alphonso was bound and determined to prove he doesn't have any business holding a roster spot in this league.

on the other hand, it should be blindingly obvious that tebow's throwing motion won't ever change, given that he actually regressed from the first game.

i'm a little upset about ball having a few good runs. he's not final roster material (yes, i get the injury thing), but now he'll probably end up making it. to be fair, though, i'd rather keep him than lendale/fargas.

kyle orton... y'all were right. i hadn't had a chance to actually see him throwing, but his arm looks a million times better.

impressive catch aside, brandon lloyd needs to be cut. i don't like his routes. i don't trust his hands. i think he's a douchebag on the field. i could go on.

sad to say, but outside of ayers, our linebackers were garbage. dj williams was/is absolutely horrible. he has no idea what to do in a zone, his first step is wrong on 97% of the snaps he's in for. **** shanahan for ruining one of the best WLBs in the league.

I think Lendale stays. The short yardage thing is too important a facet of the game that knowshon and buck just arent suited for. On that - I liked the push the o-line got on the 2-yd rushing td. Especially Walton, which is encouraging.

[Diehard]

Here is my projected 53 man roster.

Comments:

QB - I'd *like* to see Quinn get cut, but coaches always seem to feel the need to have a vet backup, even if he sucks donkey balls like Quinn/Simms.

WR - I'm not sure Stokely will make it. 6 WR's is just fine, particularly if the return game is in the hands of the DB's

OL - I think Hochstein could be in trouble. Daniels wasn't too bad vs Pitt and Hochstein hasn't been getting much of a push in the running game. I think they are taking a very close look at Russ... it will be interesting to see what happens in the last preseason game.

DB - you've got Nate Jones on the list but also a "close call". If we only carry 9 DB's, I think he's gone

[Diehard]

sad to say, but outside of ayers, our linebackers were garbage.

I don't think it was *that* bad, but yes, there was some awful tackling by the LB corps.

dj williams was/is absolutely horrible. he has no idea what to do in a zone, his first step is wrong on 97% of the snaps he's in for. **** shanahan for ruining one of the best WLBs in the league.

I still think DJ would thrive as a WOLB in a 4-3. His game is all about pursuit. Playing inside exposes his lack of football instincts/IQ.

IMO, we need a real field general *and* a big thumper inside. Wouldn't be surprised if we picked up multiple inside guys in the next draft.

[CT Bronco Fan]

Comments:

QB - I'd *like* to see Quinn get cut, but coaches always seem to feel the need to have a vet backup, even if he sucks donkey balls like Quinn/Simms.

WR - I'm not sure Stokely will make it. 6 WR's is just fine, particularly if the return game is in the hands of the DB's

OL - I think Hochstein could be in trouble. Daniels wasn't too bad vs Pitt and Hochstein hasn't been getting much of a push in the running game. I think they are taking a very close look at Russ... it will be interesting to see what happens in the last preseason game.

DB - you've got Nate Jones on the list but also a "close call". If we only carry 9 DB's, I think he's gone

Ah yea, I added him back because of Fargas getting cut.

I could see Hochstien getting cut if they wanted to go with one of the Olsens for sure. I think Quinn likely will make it, but I can't justify putting him on my roster lol.

[njx9]

i'd hope so... i really wanted mcclain for that role, i think he'd have been an absolute stud at ilb. i'm more bitter at how out of position our entire lb corps looks on nearly every play. on runs, they're 8 yards deep. on passes, they've bitten on the fake, or they have no idea how to play zone. these are things that shouldn't be an issue in the limited plays we were running. i dunno. maybe there was a good reason for it, maybe it won't be an issue. but having watched it be an issue for years now, i'm not encouraged.

[CT Bronco Fan]

My final shot at this after tonights game.

Cuts: Blue = Practice Squad

DL Ben Garland
DL Jeff Stehle
LB Worrell Williams
LB Kevin Alexander
LB Jammie Kirlew
LB Johnny Williams
OL D`Anthony Batiste
OL Seth Olsen
S Kyle McCarthy
TE Rair Greer
TE Nathan Overbay
TE Kory Sperry
WR Alric Arnett
WR Britt Davis
RB Bruce Hall
LB Baraka Atkins
DL Marcus Thomas
OL Ross Hochstien
CB Nate Jones

Final Roster:
QB: (3) Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn
HB: (3) Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, Lance Ball
FB: (1) Spencer Larsen
WR: (7) Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Eddie Royal, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Brandon Stokley, Matthew Willis
TE: (3) Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Marquez Branson
OL: (8 ) Ryan Clady, Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Paul Duncan, Stanley Daniels, Eric Olsen

DL: (7) Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, Ryan McBean, Jarvis Green, Ronald Fields, LeKevin Smith, Chris Baker
LB: (8 ) D.J. Williams, Mario Haggan, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, Wesley Woodyard, Joe Mays, Jason Hunter, Elvis Dumervil
CB: (6) Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman, Perrish Cox, Alphonso Smith, Syd`Quan Thompson, Cassius Vaughn
S: (4) Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, David Bruton, Darcel McBath

ST: (3) Matt Prater, Britton Colquitt, Lonnie Paxton

Injury Reserve:
Darrell Reid

Suspended Reserve:
LenDale White

[njx9]

as much as i think lendale is garbage (hard for me to admit about a guy i almost played against in high school), i hope we drop smith for him, based on your chart (which looks like a fairly good estimation to me).

[Timbathia]

as much as i think lendale is garbage (hard for me to admit about a guy i almost played against in high school), i hope we drop smith for him, based on your chart (which looks like a fairly good estimation to me).

i had warmed to lendale as well - guess it doesnt matter anymore with that achilles injury.

[CT Bronco Fan]

Looks like Dumervil might end up on IR, which would then probably open the spot up for Baraka Atkins on the roster.

[Diehard]

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Roster-Trimmed-to-65/438ae867-28a8-4398-9f6e-2a25f1086951


Wide receiver Alric Arnett, defensive lineman Chris Baker, offensive lineman Paul Duncan, linebackers Jammie Kirlew and Johnny Williams and tight ends Kory Sperry and Nathan Overbay were waived on Friday.


Nothing too surprising there. Baker is probably the most notable casualty as many thought he was a steal as a UDFA.

[Diehard]

I've seen/heard reports that Darrell Reid has been cut, but I don't have a source link. He was out of the picture with an injury anyway, so that's not much of a loss.

Ah, here's a link:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39005371/ns/sports-player_news/

[CT Bronco Fan]

Jarvis Green and Brandon Stokley cut.

Stokley doesn't shock me all that much, but Green getting cut I didn't see coming at all.

[Diehard]

Green couldn't win a starting spot in the 3-man front. IMO, once we brought in Hunter who can play with his hand down in a 4-man front, Green became expendable.

I always felt Stokely was in trouble. We've got plenty of young talent at WR, and with the return duties probably covered by DB's, 6 receivers is plenty

I also saw somewhere that Britt Davis was cut, but no confirmation yet. Other rumor was that Branson is going on IR... which would leave us very thin at TE.

[ChiFan24]

Honest to god, I had a dream last night that Alphonso Smith got cut and McDaniels was fired almost immediately after. Which is weird, since I don't even really care about the Broncos besides my man Orton. So half of that came true. Just thought I'd share that.

[Diehard]

Honest to god, I had a dream last night that Alphonso Smith got cut and McDaniels was fired almost immediately after. Which is weird, since I don't even really care about the Broncos besides my man Orton. So half of that came true. Just thought I'd share that.

He was traded, not cut, though I believe he would've been cut if it came down to that.

Kid's got plenty of talent, but seemed lost out there. Hope he gets with the program in Detroit, otherwise it will be game over for him.

[Diehard]

Branson was cut, not IR'd:

http://twitter.com/postbroncos

Also:


Other players cut: LB Kevin Alexander, WR Britt Davis, TE Riar Geer, S Kyle McCarthy, OL Seth Olsen, DL Jeff Stehle, LB Worrell Williams


There also seems to be some confusion about whether Stokely was cut or on IR.

[njx9]

hooray for losing alphonso smith. but for yet another garbage tight end? really?

[njx9]

stokley's on ir

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=1501&line=180611&spln=1

[Diehard]

I suspect more changes are to come... Hall seems like a placeholder for whatever RB we pick up from the discard pile.

QB (3) - Orton, Tebow, Quinn

RB (5) - Moreno, Buckhalter, Ball, Hall, Larsen [FB]

TE (3) - Graham, Quinn, Gronkowski

WR (6) - Royal, Gaffney, Lloyd, Willis, Decker, Thomas

OL (9) - Clady, Harris, Batiste, Kuper, Beadles, Walton, Daniels, Hochstein, E. Olsen

DL (6) - Bannan, McBean, Smith, J. Williams, Fields, Thomas

LB (8 ) - D.J. Williams, Haggan, Woodyard, Mays, Ayers, Moss, Hunter, Atkins

DB (10) - Dawkins, Hill, McBath, Bruton, Bailey, Goodman, Cox, Thompson, Vaughn, Jones

ST (3) - Paxton, Prater, Colquitt

[CT Bronco Fan]

Final Roster:

QB: (3) Kyle Orton, Tim Tebow, Brady Quinn
RB: (4) Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, Lance Ball, Bruce Hall
FB: (1) Spencer Larsen
WR: (6) Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Eddie Royal, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Matthew Willis
TE: (3) Daniel Graham, Richard Quinn, Dan Gronkowski
OL: (9) Ryan Clady, Zane Beadles, J.D. Walton, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris, Stanley Daniels, Russ Hochstien, Eric Olsen, D`Anthony Batiste

DL: (6) Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams, Ryan McBean, LeKevin Smith, Marcus Thomas, Ronald Fields
LB: (8 ) D.J. Williams, Robert Ayers, Mario Haggan, Jarvis Moss, Wesley Woodyard, Joe Mays, Jason Hunter, Baraka Atkins
CB: (6) Champ Bailey, Andre Goodman, Perish Cox, Nate Jones, Syd`Quan Thompson, Cassius Vaughn
S: (4) Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, Darcel McBath, David Bruton

ST: (3) Matt Prater, Britton Colquitt, Lonnie Paxton.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Stupid broncos. As if we gave up a first for a guy who is off the tea one year later.

[ChiFan24]

He was traded, not cut, though I believe he would've been cut if it came down to that.

Are you calling my dream a liar?

edit: I will say though, I always thought Smith would be a nice fit with Schwartz, he's got some Pacman in him, he's just completely failed to show it.

[Timbathia]

What I really like from these roster cuts is that McDaniels seems able to accept when he makes a bad decision and can move on from it. I think one of Broncosland's big fears was that he was too arrogant for his own good - but I think this proves he is not.

Now, we just need someone to help him with his first round picks, and we should be okay (cause the later round ones seem okay).

[njx9]

edit: I will say though, I always thought Smith would be a nice fit with Schwartz, he's got some Pacman in him, he's just completely failed to show it.

no he doesn't. pacman is athletic. alphonso smith is nothing approaching athletic.

[Diehard]

Stupid broncos. As if we gave up a first for a guy who is off the tea one year later.

He was expendable because of good drafting this time around. Win some, lose some.

[CT Bronco Fan]

Broncos claimed Andre Brown off of waivers from the Giants.

This likely will mean Hall/Ball one of them will be cut.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Broncos claimed Andre Brown off of waivers from the Giants.

This likely will mean Hall/Ball one of them will be cut.

Brown is a good get! We thought we could sneak him thru waivers and then sign him to our PS. But since you guys need RBs, I think Brown, if developed can be a good player.

[AntoinCD]

hooray for losing alphonso smith. but for yet another garbage tight end? really?

If he's even half the player his brother is then the Broncos got themselves a Hall of Famer

[Diehard]

I just heard on the radio that Harris will be out for a few weeks with a sprained ankle. Great player, unfortunately he seems to be made of glass.

Overall, the injury situation is just brutal and we haven't played a down in a real game yet. Not encouraging.

[Timbathia]

I just heard on the radio that Harris will be out for a few weeks with a sprained ankle. Great player, unfortunately he seems to be made of glass.

Overall, the injury situation is just brutal and we haven't played a down in a real game yet. Not encouraging.

Starting a rookie center, rookie RT and a journeyman LG does seem a tad worrying, especially when you factor in our LT will be starting off the season less than 100% fit. I hope Graham is healthy, cause I think he may be spending a lot time standing next to Zane on sunday.

[Smooth Criminal]

Any news about Moreno? I havn't heard anything since he didn't play the last preseason game. Is he supposed to start and take most of the carries?

[njx9]

most of the carries? seems pretty unlikely. get 5-10 carries? possibly. though his last quote (something along the lines of "i dunno, it's my hamstring, i may decide i can play on sunday or i may not" [yes, i editorialized slightly]) didn't seem highly encouraging. i'd sit him unless you don't have anything else.

[Timbathia]

most of the carries? seems pretty unlikely. get 5-10 carries? possibly. though his last quote (something along the lines of "i dunno, it's my hamstring, i may decide i can play on sunday or i may not" [yes, i editorialized slightly]) didn't seem highly encouraging. i'd sit him unless you don't have anything else.

I am having scary thoughts about a preseason opener in 90 degree heat where MJD runs for 200 yards, we get beat by about 20 points, and we lose both Clady and Moreno for half the season after re-aggravating their injuries.

I hope it is just preseason jitters.

[njx9]

i wouldn't ever be scared of losing moreno, but i'm definitely scared we'll lose clady again. at that point we might as well put in tebow and forget winning a game. i have a weird feeling our defense will start out strong again.

[ThePudge]

How much action does Eric Decker expect to see this year? I thought that was the Broncos best pick of the last draft & a guy who could hold down a starting role there.

[Timbathia]

How much action does Eric Decker expect to see this year? I thought that was the Broncos best pick of the last draft & a guy who could hold down a starting role there.

It is a really excellent question. I dont think any of us really know how the receivers will get used early on, apart from Gaffney being there every down. The coaches seem willing to give Lloyd a chance, and Royal should start in the slot. Willis and Decker have been great in the preseason though. I get the feeling that there will be a lot of rotations until it sorts itself out.

[njx9]

i actually sort of like our wrs, assuming someone replaces lloyd soon. willis and decker are awesome at the 4/5 or 5/6 (depending on thomas) spots. and i hate gaffney less. i'd like to see decker in an eddie mac role (cue: zomg white wrz), as i think he'd be a perfect fit for that kind of #2 spot.

[The Unseen]

Good game y'all. Brandon Lloyd is a manbeast.

[njx9]

god ******* dammit. another season opener, another flight to new york. so glad i'm here in time to watch the bloody packers/eagles game, instead.

looks like our rushing game, outside of one carry by moreno, was still useless. looks like our linebackers were garbage (though they held mjd to <100, lewis looks like he ate them up in the red zone). but on the plus side, it looks like royal played a big part in the offense... orton looks to have played well?

anything i'm missing?

[Cunningham]

god ******* dammit. another season opener, another flight to new york. so glad i'm here in time to watch the bloody packers/eagles game, instead.

looks like our rushing game, outside of one carry by moreno, was still useless. looks like our linebackers were garbage (though they held mjd to <100, lewis looks like he ate them up in the red zone). but on the plus side, it looks like royal played a big part in the offense... orton looks to have played well?

anything i'm missing?
that's pretty much the gist of it.

royal and ayers both looked better today than they did all of last season. our offensive line provided little push, not a huge surprise considering we had three guys starting their first ever game.

definitely a disappointing loss, especially since the things we struggled with today were the same things that stung us last season. i'm still pretty optimistic about the season. the running game should improve when we get harris back and as our young guys become better adjusted to playing at this level. i don't see us repeating a lot of the stupid **** we did either, e.g. buck's fumble, mcbean's two facemask calls within a minute of each other, quinn looking lost and forcing orton to waste a timeout...

[Timbathia]

that's pretty much the gist of it.

royal and ayers both looked better today than they did all of last season. our offensive line provided little push, not a huge surprise considering we had three guys starting their first ever game.

definitely a disappointing loss, especially since the things we struggled with today were the same things that stung us last season. i'm still pretty optimistic about the season. the running game should improve when we get harris back and as our young guys become better adjusted to playing at this level. i don't see us repeating a lot of the stupid **** we did either, e.g. buck's fumble, mcbean's two facemask calls within a minute of each other, quinn looking lost and forcing orton to waste a timeout...

Important aspects of the game

Opening drive:
third and 1 at the Jags 18 - holding call on Beadles
third and 11 - Orton sacked for -8 yards (line let everyone through)
4th down - punt instead of FG because of the above.

third drive:
second and 6 at the Jags 32 - Buck runs for 7 yards to get the first down and fumbles

Score was still 0-0 at this stage and we were totally dominating the game.

Jax had 4 scoring drives - 3 were set up by a punt or kickoff return that started their drive close to the halfway line, while the other one had two face masks to help them along the way. Most of our drives all day started inside our 30 (and a few inside the ten). Special teams were not special at all.

The defense was okay, but no turnovers and nowhere near enough pressure on Garrard (especially compared to what they got on Orton).

Orton looked awesome when he had time - the o-line leaked badly most of the game. Considering we were in the redzone 3 times with no points, we should have won this game.

[Diehard]

We're starting this season with a bad combination of injuries and rookies holding down starting jobs. The OL is the most impacted - 3 first time starters, Clady is still a work in progress, Harris is out and Kuper got dinged up again. Given that both our decent RB's also missed most of camp with injuries, it's a ******* miracle Moreno got the yards he did on the ground.

On defense, I'm concerned about Dawkins in the passing game. He looked bad out there at times. McBath could cover this responsibility, but of course he's injured. McBean's double facemask **** was unacceptable and IMO had a big impact on the outcome of the game. The DL as a whole needs to provide more pressure up front and play with discipline.

Special team coverage was hideous. As always. It's getting pretty ******* old.

The good: Orton (apart from the final series), WR's, Ayers, Prater

[Jimmy]

god ******* dammit. another season opener, another flight to new york. so glad i'm here in time to watch the bloody packers/eagles game, instead.

looks like our rushing game, outside of one carry by moreno, was still useless. looks like our linebackers were garbage (though they held mjd to <100, lewis looks like he ate them up in the red zone). but on the plus side, it looks like royal played a big part in the offense... orton looks to have played well?

anything i'm missing?

^ at least we didn't win ^
now we can't have a late season collapse

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

^ at least we didn't win ^
now we can't have a late season collapse

We'll find a way...

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Also I didn't get to watch, but I'm pretty sure I saw the one good run by Knowshon that he talked about. And damn is he slow. Like he looked like a high school RB. Zero explosion on that. WTF.

[Timbathia]

Also I didn't get to watch, but I'm pretty sure I saw the one good run by Knowshon that he talked about. And damn is he slow. Like he looked like a high school RB. Zero explosion on that. WTF.

This is sort of true, but in his defense there were never any actual holes for him to hit at full speed. It pretty much looked like he had to hesitate for a second when he got the ball to try and figure out where (if anywhere) a hole was going to open up. The ZBS was much better for backs to just hit holes at full speed.

I know njx wont believe me, but I thought DJ actually looked pretty good out there today. He did some nice things in coverage, showed good speed in limiting damage once the back got past the line, and even blew up MJD on the 4th and inches by actually anticipating where the play was going to be and getting there on time. It is refreshing to see that our top 4 tacklers were the 4 linebackers, as opposed to it normally being our safeties and corners leading the count. The only downside is Mario looks pretty slow out there, and cant cover for ****.

[njx9]

i don't *not* believe you, but i have a hard time believing you. =P

if DJ has actually learned to step forward every so often instead of instantly backpedaling, even after it's clear the play is a run, i'd be happy.

[Diehard]

i don't *not* believe you, but i have a hard time believing you. =P

LOL. I can confirm what Tim is saying - DJ played pretty well. He and Ayers were the bright spots on the defense.

As an aside, I went back and watching some parts of the game again and noticed that, at times, the defense had a hard time getting lined up. There seemed to be some confusion on who was supposed to go where, even on the part of savvy veterans like Dawkins. Working out that kind of stuff is the purpose of TC / preseason, but apparently between the slew of injuries and the extra rest given to the old timers, the D is still very much a work in progress.

[Timbathia]

LOL. I can confirm what Tim is saying - DJ played pretty well. He and Ayers were the bright spots on the defense.

As an aside, I went back and watching some parts of the game again and noticed that, at times, the defense had a hard time getting lined up. There seemed to be some confusion on who was supposed to go where, even on the part of savvy veterans like Dawkins. Working out that kind of stuff is the purpose of TC / preseason, but apparently between the slew of injuries and the extra rest given to the old timers, the D is still very much a work in progress.

Did you see what happened on the first TD to Lewis (I think the first). The one where Vickerson ran off right before it was snapped? Did we have ten men on the field? It seemed like no-one on the defense had a clue what the **** was going on in that play.

[Cunningham]

Did you see what happened on the first TD to Lewis (I think the first). The one where Vickerson ran off right before it was snapped? Did we have ten men on the field? It seemed like no-one on the defense had a clue what the **** was going on in that play.
yep, definitely had ten men on the field.

this is a team that, given the general lack of proven playmakers, can ill-afford to make those kinds of mistakes. hopefully there won't be too many games this season where we beat ourselves....otherwise it will be a long year

[njx9]

i'm stoked to hear that our defense had no idea what was going on. it makes me really happy that we pushed nolan out. god forbid our players, after a major transition (43 to 34), have enough time in one version of the system to actually learn it.

i hated the shanahan front office because he stopped having any clue what to do in the offseason. i'm starting to hate the xanders front office for the exact same reason (though i generally like this draft/free agency more than almost every shanahan draft from 98-05).

[Diehard]

i'm stoked to hear that our defense had no idea what was going on. it makes me really happy that we pushed nolan out. god forbid our players, after a major transition (43 to 34), have enough time in one version of the system to actually learn it.

As an aside, McD said that he would've run the 4-3 if there pieces were there, but since they had to start from pretty much scratch anyway, they chose to go with the 3-4.

It speaks volumes that at the end of Shanahan's tenure, we didn't have the personnel needed for *any* NFL defensive scheme. Simply mindboggling.

[njx9]

As an aside, McD said that he would've run the 4-3 if there pieces were there, but since they had to start from pretty much scratch anyway, they chose to go with the 3-4.

It speaks volumes that at the end of Shanahan's tenure, we didn't have the personnel needed for *any* NFL defensive scheme. Simply mindboggling.

it is sad, and i sort of agree. we had a will in the 43 and a rush in the 34, and jack **** else in the front seven. seems like so long ago (though, i guess 12 years is a long time) since we had alfred williams, neil smith, trevor pryce and robert traylor dominating the LOS, and an actual competent linebacker group (romo and mobley) behind them. amazing to me how quickly shanahan lost it in the front office.

[CT Bronco Fan]

Broncos acquired RB Laurence Maroney and a 6th round pick from the Patriots for a 4th round pick.

[njx9]

Broncos acquired RB Laurence Maroney and a 6th round pick from the Patriots for a 4th round pick.

are you ******* kidding me? a 4th round pick for that piece of garbage? he'll actually make our running game WORSE. god i ******* hate mcdaniels.

[Diehard]

it is sad, and i sort of agree. we had a will in the 43 and a rush in the 34, and jack **** else in the front seven. seems like so long ago (though, i guess 12 years is a long time) since we had alfred williams, neil smith, trevor pryce and robert traylor dominating the LOS, and an actual competent linebacker group (romo and mobley) behind them. amazing to me how quickly shanahan lost it in the front office.

Not paying Berry or Hayward was the beginning of the downfall. It's hard to believe how shortsighted those moves were. Pass rushers are a precious commodity. We didn't replace them with anyone.

Since we're fondly reminiscing about the old days:

Broncos 2003 Draft

1 - George Foster, Georgia
2 - Terry Pierce, Kansas State
4 - Quentin Griffin, Oklahoma
4 - Nicholas Eason, Clemson
4 - Bryant McNeal, Clemson
5 - Ben Claxton, Mississippi
5 - Adrian Madise, Texas Christian
6 - Aaron Hunt, Texas Tech
7 - Clint Mitchell, Florida
7 - Ahmaad Galloway, Alabama

A thing of beauty, in a perverse, Bizarro-World kinda way...

[Diehard]

are you ******* kidding me? a 4th round pick for that piece of garbage? he'll actually make our running game WORSE. god i ******* hate mcdaniels.

He knows the system and, at times, played well under McDaniels. I've got very mixed feelings about it. I wanted the Broncos to draft him back in 2006 instead of Cutler, but his injuries and fumbling in the NFL make it difficult to like this move.

[njx9]

i've hated maroney pretty much his entire career (and, since my roommate is a worthless pats fans, i've watched nearly every game of theirs for about 5 years). dude is the epitome of a soft runner. he goes down at first contact on all but a handful of carries in his entire career. he hits the hole worse than moreno. he's useless in the passing game.

i should sum it up as: as much as i think moreno is the terrible, i always consoled myself knowing that maroney is ten times worse.

[Timbathia]

Not paying Berry or Hayward was the beginning of the downfall. It's hard to believe how shortsighted those moves were. Pass rushers are a precious commodity. We didn't replace them with anyone.

Since we're fondly reminiscing about the old days:

Broncos 2003 Draft

1 - George Foster, Georgia
2 - Terry Pierce, Kansas State
4 - Quentin Griffin, Oklahoma
4 - Nicholas Eason, Clemson
4 - Bryant McNeal, Clemson
5 - Ben Claxton, Mississippi
5 - Adrian Madise, Texas Christian
6 - Aaron Hunt, Texas Tech
7 - Clint Mitchell, Florida
7 - Ahmaad Galloway, Alabama

A thing of beauty, in a perverse, Bizarro-World kinda way...

I really liked Q - the kinda guy you want to succeed.

I had to google Terry Pierce. I cant for the life of me remember him even existing.

[Timbathia]

Saw a quote from Xanders that I need to remember next time some knob in the general forum spouts off about how McDaniels ruined the Broncos when he took over from Shanny. It basically cites the fact that the Broncos released 32 players from the 2008 roster and practice squad that never again played in the NFL.

At least now when we release players someone else picks them up.

[Cunningham]

Saw a quote from Xanders that I need to remember next time some knob in the general forum spouts off about how McDaniels ruined the Broncos when he took over from Shanny. It basically cites the fact that the Broncos released 32 players from the 2008 roster and practice squad that never again played in the NFL.

At least now when we release players someone else picks them up.
don't tell that to shiver. he doesn't care

[njx9]

Saw a quote from Xanders that I need to remember next time some knob in the general forum spouts off about how McDaniels ruined the Broncos when he took over from Shanny. It basically cites the fact that the Broncos released 32 players from the 2008 roster and practice squad that never again played in the NFL.

At least now when we release players someone else picks them up.

i still have never understood why everyone thought dumping shanahan was the best possible move for denver. sure, it sucked losing a great qb and a great wr. but we were *never* going to be better than 9-7/10-6 with him around.

[Cunningham]

i still have never understood why everyone thought dumping shanahan was the best possible move for denver. sure, it sucked losing a great qb and a great wr. but we were *never* going to be better than 9-7/10-6 with him around.
did you mean to say you never understood why everyone thought dumping shanahan was the worst possible move?

[njx9]

did you mean to say you never understood why everyone thought dumping shanahan was the worst possible move?

umm... yeah. wow. can't even blame that on poor typing.

[njx9]

so i think i finally understand why moreno sucks. dude has the worst vision of any starting running back i've ever seen. the 2nd and goal play in the 2nd quarter? makes a terrible cutback to run into the 4 defenders who were standing there waiting. the long screen pass? makes a horrendous cut to avoid going all the way. dude has absolutely no idea where to run to.

on the other hand, i ******* love thomas. if he can keep this up, i won't even remember brandon marshall's name in two months.

[Timbathia]

so i think i finally understand why moreno sucks. dude has the worst vision of any starting running back i've ever seen. the 2nd and goal play in the 2nd quarter? makes a terrible cutback to run into the 4 defenders who were standing there waiting. the long screen pass? makes a horrendous cut to avoid going all the way. dude has absolutely no idea where to run to.

on the other hand, i ******* love thomas. if he can keep this up, i won't even remember brandon marshall's name in two months.

I am excited and completely disheartened at the same time.

I love how our passing offense played today. Great clock control to keep our lousy defense off the field, great third down conversion, Thomas looks awesome, Royal, Lloyd and Gaffney also look really good, and Orton is really playing well.

I still cant decide if our running game is Moreno and Bucks fault or not. I agree Know is missing yards that are available, but we really do a terrible job at opening things up for him. It seems to be play-calling more than execution, but it may be that both suck. Apparently we pass the ball to gain yards, and run it to eat up the clock and give players a rest.

It seems we cant cover punts, and have no ability to gain yards on punt returns. This is very concerning.

I had high hopes for the run defense being improved this year with the o-line additions. I also hoped that Ayers and Moss could at least look threatening in passing situations. I hoped that our defensive backs could play as well as last year. Turns out I was wrong on all accounts. Apparently teams can three and five- step drop us to death and we cant do anything to stop them.

I think that Hasselbecks play in the first half as well as that punt fumble had more to do with us winning that anything else. We appear to be a team that can be competitive with most, but really need the turnovers and penalties to go our way if we are going to win.

[Diehard]

Our running game wasn't bad today. The stats tell a bit of a lie, as we had some awful runs at the end when it really didn't matter anymore.

We did take a few significant hits in the backfield, though, where there were multiple Seattle players on the RB immediately after the handoff. That should not happen. I'll chalk that up to the OL still being a patchwork unit.

I was encouraged by our interior tandem of Daniels and Walton, though - on that first rushing TD Daniels handled his guy effectively and then Walton blasted the LB deep into the endzone.

The simple fact is this is a passing team. The old Erhardt-Perkins mantra of "pass to score, run to win" is in full effect. And why not? We've got a great stable of receivers and even our current makeshift line is quite capable of pass blocking.

My main concern is still the front seven, particularly the interior play. We really have no difference makers up front right now. One impact DL and/or LB would make a huge difference.

[njx9]

yeah. i'm really liking the idea of a heyward or darius in the first. add someone to the front three to complement doom. cut alphonso smith (nice effort on that tate catch, couldn't even be bothered to push him out of bounds after getting beat), hope cox and whats his name become serviceable starters... and that'll be just in time for dawkins and bailey to retire.

it's insane how little talent we have on our defense.

as far as the offensive line, sure. there were some holes that didn't get open. but on the goalline play i referenced above, moreno didn't even try to follow the literal wall of broncos players trying to pave a road into the end zone. and he's way too slow to make a cut like that work (i think portis could've done it before washington turned him into a power back, but he had pretty rare speed). it was to the point that i was actually thinking that royal would be a significant upgrade at halfback, since he might actually be able to do more than grind 3 yards. even buck was pretty much awful. i think running right is pretty much a lost cause, but i thought we were opening holes otherwise, the backs just weren't bothering with trying to *use* the holes.

i do like our passing game. and really, if we had a 3rd down back worth ****, i'd be ok with turning this team into the old patriots offense (5 wide 80% of the time, rarely running the ball, using the short passing game to replace the running game) since we do that really well (and it plays into orton's strengths).

but yeah. thomas. awesome. i'm happy to know that, so far, i don't need to eat crow on that pick.

[Me Likey Rookies]

Royal and DT looked awesome.

Champ might be out for Indy which has to be really scary...

[phlysac]

You guys signed Diyral Briggs to your PS today. I think you'll like his potential. I think he could have a legit shot at seeing time on your 53 if he continues to show as he had with the 49ers this offseason.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8373/diyralbriggs.jpg

[Timbathia]

You guys signed Diyral Briggs to your PS today. I think you'll like his potential. I think he could have a legit shot at seeing time on your 53 if he continues to show as he had with the 49ers this offseason.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8373/diyralbriggs.jpg

what more can you tell us? seems he is a pass-rushing linebacker, but is a liability against the run, or in coverage???

[gpngc]

Moreno doesn't look like he's improved at all? I know it's only a highlight, but I never saw that kind of explosiveness from him on the screen pass before. Thomas made a heck of a play to backpedal and wrap him up to prevent 6...

?

[njx9]

it helped that moreno cut the wrong direction and let the tackle be made. he's looked better on the screens, but i think the screen plays in general have looked better. he's still garbage between the tackles.

but please, feel free to wait for one of the other guys to post. i think they all have a much more moderate view of moreno.

[Timbathia]

I am still not convinced how much is his fault and how much is the play-calling/o-line. You look at a guy like Foster in Houston, or any of the old Broncos backs in the Shanny days who were successful straight away - all they are told to do is grab the football and as soon as you see a cutback lane hit it as hard as you can.

this power **** we are playing right now, with o-lineman that are far from dominant in power run blocking, is not that simple. I see Moreno get panned for not hitting holes hard enough, and I see him getting panned for not being patient enough, and I see him getting panned for not having the vision to see the right holes. This is not the Broncos ZBS where the holes look like the entry to the eisenhower tunnel - I think it is just more a case of the holes are never in the same place or time when we run the same play, and they are never that big. I dont doubt that some of this is in his head as well, as he is probably over-thinking things rather than just trusting his instincts, but I think writing him off is not fair.

There were a couple of nice plays, especially early on sunday, and I thought he looked good. He is never going to be a breakaway game-changer, but he had some good 5 -10 yard runs that is exactly what we need (as well as the screen pass plays). After that, it seemed he was getting hit in the backfield more often than not. He needs to better, and it would be nice if he was quite a lot better - but a good portion of that will come IMO with the o-line getting healthy, better and more experienced (in the case of JD and Zane).

[Timbathia]

Now Moreno is out this week against the Colts. This year is turning into a ******* disaster injury wise. Oh well njx, it looks like we get to see this week how bad Maroney is.

I am also starting to think we will soon be in the market for a RT - Harris just looks like he will become one of those guys that never stays healthy.

[njx9]

Oh well njx, it looks like we get to see this week how bad Maroney is.

he's totally going to run for 180/3 and then i'll have to root for him.

[phlysac]

what more can you tell us? seems he is a pass-rushing linebacker, but is a liability against the run, or in coverage???

He has limited experience at both. He was barely over 230lbs last season when he was signed as a UDFA out of Bowling Green. He was a speed rusher ONLY. He has since bulked up to over 250 and is getting more comfortable in space. He has improved dramatically in coverage. He even had an interception this preseason. He still is inconsistent setting the edge in the run game as he has yet to get comfortable with his added strength. He is far from a safe bet to ever make an impact but if he continues to improve as he has the past year, I see no reason he shouldn't, at least, become a serviceable 3-4 OLB reserve.

[Timbathia]

he's totally going to run for 180/3 and then i'll have to root for him.

how about 20 odd yards on 12 carries, with 3 attempts for zero yards at the one?

I hate our ******* run game.

How do we pass for 476 yards for 1 TD?

Now we go off to get smashed on two very hard road games.

[Diehard]

Poor execution cost us the game, pure and simple. The fumbled return, INT and firing blanks in the end zone were the architects of defeat.

[njx9]

i'm *shocked* that we still don't have a red zone offense. or something.

also, why the hell is gronkowski playing? i've seen solid blocks of marble with better moves and speed.

[Cunningham]

**** off, maroney

[bigbluedefense]

So like...Peyton Hillis is better than any RB you have on the roster.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

So like...Peyton Hillis is better than any RB you have on the roster.


We know :(

Also I just looked at the schedule, and odds are we are 1-5 before going to London. Faaaaaantastic.

[njx9]

So like...Peyton Hillis is better than any RB you have on the roster.

stop it. mcdaniels is a genius. best offensive mind ever. ever.

[WinslowBodden]

I know some of you guys were pissed about the Broncos trading Hillis, but did he look this good when he was with you guys? I saw some stats and whatever and I know you're RB situation wasn't the greatest, I just don't get why the Broncos would trade him if he showed ANY of what he is showing right now with us with you guys...

Not trying to be a dick, I'm just wondering.

EDIT : I didn't even read the posts before mine didn't even know people were already talking about him.

[Diehard]

I know some of you guys were pissed about the Broncos trading Hillis, but did he look this good when he was with you guys? I saw some stats and whatever and I know you're RB situation wasn't the greatest, I just don't get why the Broncos would trade him if he showed ANY of what he is showing right now with us with you guys...

Not trying to be a dick, I'm just wondering.

Because he ****** up repeatedly while learning the new offense, which put him in McD's doghouse pretty quickly.

[jCut]

so i think i finally understand why moreno sucks. dude has the worst vision of any starting running back i've ever seen.

Dude also has toothpick-legs.

[CT Bronco Fan]

I know some of you guys were pissed about the Broncos trading Hillis, but did he look this good when he was with you guys? I saw some stats and whatever and I know you're RB situation wasn't the greatest, I just don't get why the Broncos would trade him if he showed ANY of what he is showing right now with us with you guys...

Not trying to be a dick, I'm just wondering.

EDIT : I didn't even read the posts before mine didn't even know people were already talking about him.

He looked quite good in the few starts he got a few years ago under Shanny.

He quickly got into McD's doghouse though, and basically he traded him away for nothing (read Brady Quinn lol)

I like the guy, and hoping he has a monster year for the Browns.

[TitanHope]

Good game guys. :(

[Diehard]

Good game guys. :(

Thanks bro. I was thinking it would be a close game, but I didn't expect it to be quite that tight.

I was somwhat surprised we held your running game in check other than the big run by Ringer. That allowed us to make the adjustment to bring Dawkins as the blitzer/spy on Young to shut down the bootleg action when it really counted.

[TitanHope]

CJ is sucking. I'm mad at him.

But yeah, it was an awesome game though. I'd go from jumping with joy, to screaming in frustration, to complete apathy every other play.

I wish they would've been more aggressive with VY and the passing game. Ya'll were swarming the run, we only had a 4 point lead, and typical Fisherball, then run-run-run. VY's been playing well. Why they choose to handcuff him, thus making the offense predictable, blows my mind.

But yeah, it's good to see Orton have success. Chris and Njx are mah boys, so if we have to lose, it can be to you guys. Looks like McDaniels found a guy who fits what he wants to do well in Brandon Lloyd. That's what I don't get with McDaniels: Why not just pickup the FA guys who fit your scheme like Lloyd and be so proactive and make silly trades for the likes of Maroney, Quinn, etc? That's what Fisher, Cecil, and DL Coach Jim Washburn do on DEF. Ya'll saw guys on DEF like Tony Brown, Dave Ball, and Jason Babin? All were vet FA's we got at rock bottom prices and they're awesome now. McDaniels should do that on offense for ya'll, but it seems like he wants to be the smartest person in the room. I dunno...

Hopefully ya'll keep with Buckhalter. Maroney is just a clinic on futility. I think Demaryius Thomas will end up being a good player though. He may not be heavily involved in the offense yet, but when I've seen him this year, I thought he looked fluid. Kid's an athlete.

[Diehard]

But yeah, it was an awesome game though. I'd go from jumping with joy, to screaming in frustration, to complete apathy every other play.

I know what you mean. My 2 year old son was napping on my lap, which was the only thing that stopped me from jumping up in disgust / joy a dozen or more times...


I wish they would've been more aggressive with VY and the passing game.


I was wondering about that. Our pass rush sucked and if you had a more downfield passing attack, it could've really hurt us.

Why they choose to handcuff him, thus making the offense predictable, blows my mind.


Trust is earned, not given? At times during the 2nd half it seemed like they were concerned more about *not* giving up a turnover than taking shots to move the ball downfield.


Looks like McDaniels found a guy who fits what he wants to do well in Brandon Lloyd.

Yeah, he's really been a revelation this year. He's always been capable of a highlight reel play, but he was so inconsistent and really played like utter **** at times. Orton said something in the offseason about Lloyd learning humility over the past few years when he was a bottom feeder on the depth chart. Maybe that's what he needed.

McDaniels should do that on offense for ya'll, but it seems like he wants to be the smartest person in the room. I dunno...

McD has done a decent job on defense in that respect, but you're right, his offensive moves have been hit or miss. I think Maroney is very much a bandaid for what has been a very tough offseason/early season for our RB's. We needed someone we could plug in who knew the system, and Maroney was one of the few guys out there who fit the bill.

[njx9]

so i was totally wrong about brandon lloyd. in one case, i'm really glad i'm not in charge of our personnel department.

on the other hand, i'm starting to wonder why we even bother running the ball. every single back on our roster is awful. our o-line sucks at run blocking. and with maroney averaging under half a yard per carry, i can't imagine we're even 'keeping teams guessing' or whatever by running occasionally. they could put 8 guys back to stop the pass, and we'd still have a hard time getting over 2 ypc.

and as much as i groaned about having thomas back to return kicks when i heard it on the radio, guy was really impressive. too bad we still need to can our special teams coach for yet another pathetic effort on kick coverage (from what i saw, i guess there's a chance we sucked less at points in the 4th after i had to turn off my phone).

really happy royal is involved again.

[Timbathia]

We really just keep repeating the same **** in here every week.

passing game and orton look awesome, except in the red zone.

run game is horrible (though perhaps horrible is a generous term).

Run def is better than expected - Ayers is really starting to play well.

Pass rush is non-existent. (side-note - if Doom was healthy we would actually have a quite good defense. DJ is also playing okay right now, so if we can find a good ILB from somewhere and Doom comes back as his old self next year...........)

special teams is still awful at coverage.

another game where we play well enough for it to be decided by a few big plays. i think we need to get used to this, as we arent good enough to dominate anyone, but most of the time are good enough to not get dominated by anyone.

[Jimmy]

run game is horrible (though perhaps horrible is a generous term).

Peyton Hillis *clap* *clap* *clap-clap-clap*

[Jimmy]

this may be one of the strangest feeling games ive ever watched.

i feel like our offense is playing great despite the inability to run, yet we have 10 points and are down by 2 scores. i can't explain it. and the defense isn't even playing that atrociously, baltimore is just murdering us with situational runs.

[Timbathia]

Nothing to talk about that we didnt already know. Almost like a bye this week.

[njx9]

our coaches are abysmal at best. might as well just take a knee on half of those third down 'attempts'. and any other play we consider a hand off on. or a screen. dj still looking lost. loved the penalties. so happy thomas was returning kicks. does gaffney have any idea how to run hard after a catch, or has someone been letting him hang out with maroney?

[Diehard]

The injury situation is ridiculous:

http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/five-defenders-out/


Robert Ayers, Brian Dawkins, Andre’ Goodman, Darcel McBath and Wesley Woodyard will miss Sunday’s home game against the Jets due to injury, Head Coach Josh McDaniels announced Monday.


Seriously, WTF? It was bad enough loosing Doom and having the backs and veteran OL banged up to start the season. Now the defense is completely in ruins.

I think Sunday will be a good day to get caught up on the yard work...

[njx9]

figures, that's the game i bought tickets for.

at least i won't feel bad about getting hammered in the parking lot before the game.

[Timbathia]

Broken foot for Ayers too. The talk is he is out for the rest of the season. We are seriously ******.

We may as well treat this week as a bye, concede the game and rest a bunch of key players for the Raiders game the week after.

[Diehard]

figures, that's the game i bought tickets for.

at least i won't feel bad about getting hammered in the parking lot before the game.

LOL. I wonder if this orange pep rally thing they just announced was always on the schedule or if it is a direct response to the ****** Balt game + injuries. It certainly smells like a desperation ploy to me.

[njx9]

LOL. I wonder if this orange pep rally thing they just announced was always on the schedule or if it is a direct response to the ****** Balt game + injuries. It certainly smells like a desperation ploy to me.

there's a pep rally? jesus.

no, we know the guys who have the bus that was in the bud light commercials last year (if anyone remembers those), so we'll probably be there.

at this point, the only upside is that my buddy, who's a massive pats fan, will be forced to root for the broncos. and the weather should be decent. i'd be selling my ticket if it was going to snow.

[Timbathia]

What chance do you think we use a 4-3 this week?

[njx9]

can't imagine there's any chance. we were bad enough last year with 3-4 personnel twho didn't know what they were doing. i can only imagine how ugly it would be to see 3-4 personnel trying to figure out a 4-3. especially since i don't think our defensive coach has any real idea how to run one.

[Timbathia]

can't imagine there's any chance. we were bad enough last year with 3-4 personnel twho didn't know what they were doing. i can only imagine how ugly it would be to see 3-4 personnel trying to figure out a 4-3. especially since i don't think our defensive coach has any real idea how to run one.

True, though I heard in the offseason we were using some 4-3 stuff in practice. Thought since about the only healthy position we have these days in the d-line, it might be better that starting two practice squad OLBs in a 3-4.

[njx9]

heh, i figure they might as well just start holding tryouts. some local folks really couldn't be much worse than the crap we've been trotting out there (ayers as an exception, as little as i want to admit it).

[Timbathia]

heh, i figure they might as well just start holding tryouts. some local folks really couldn't be much worse than the crap we've been trotting out there (ayers as an exception, as little as i want to admit it).

I hate it when you reach the point of the season when your attention starts focusing towards next year.

I just dont see how we can fix the running game this season, and with no prospect of Doom or Ayers being back this season, I dont see how the defense can be solid enough to keep us in games against anyone that is not especially crap.

[njx9]

i don't know how we can fix the running game at all. yes, getting rid of every back on our current roster and replacing them would probably help. but if we insist on making more 'tebow' picks, and then settling for a guy like beadles, our o-line will continue to suck inside. now we apparently need a full time RT. and a defense.

bleh. and i'm convinced that mcdaniels will piss away our first round pick again.

[Diehard]

McD mentioned the 4-3 when he was on Sirus earlier. I guess they've been working on it, probably starting around the time Doom went down.

McD also pretty much admitted the Jets game is particularly important to the team, so don't be surprised if they come out swinging even if it is a somewhat hopeless cause given our current plague of injuries.

[D-Unit]

PM me if interested in being the GM of your team in our forum mock!

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43261

[Diehard]

Goddamn it. We overcame a ******** of adversity to almost win that game, then got dumped on by the football gods. What a bunch of ******* ****.

[Timbathia]

Goddamn it. We overcame a ******** of adversity to almost win that game, then got dumped on by the football gods. What a bunch of ******* ****.

what is it about turning the ******* ball over in the first ******* quarter when we are in scoring position? **** me we are ******* hopeless in the ******* red ************* zone. ****!

[Diehard]

Yes, the follies in enemy territory have gotten pretty old: Moreno's fumble, the buggered FG and that final failure of a snap that sealed the game. I'd rather have my eyes burned out that have to watch that **** again.

Our execution is total ******* garbage right now. The injuries are a big part of it, as we haven't had any consistency in personnel since the very beginning of training camp. Having to rely on rookies in key positions doesn't help either.

We absolutely have to beat the Raiders next week.

[njx9]

after seeing the game live, i'm more sure that josh mcdaniels doesn't have any idea how to call a game, given the broncos personnel. but then, that's not news to anyone here.

awesome plays with tebow in, though... *eyeroll*

[Diehard]

Speaking of playcalling, what happened to the screen and hitting the back in the flats? Some of the blitzes the Jets dialed up were so ******* obvious, yet we were still looking for the downfield pass.

As an aside, it looks to me all too often the hot read is the outside receiver in man-to-man. That can work, but then again that guy is *always* covered which means you aren't fully exploiting the holes in the blitzing coverage.

[njx9]

and when that guy (in man, one on one) is darelle revis, you're just not going to win the matchup very often. blech. whatever. time to start thinking about april. given injuries, remaining talent level, and coaching, i don't think there's any possibility that this team wins more than 3 more games this season.

[njx9]

wow. just stat digging...

as a team, we're averaging 2.7 ypc. our 'running backs' are averaging 2.4 ypc. not even a first down every four carries. this is by 0.8 yards, the worst running game in the nfl. by OVER a full yard if you're just looking at the running backs.

and maroney's leading us in worthlessness with 2.1 ypc (2.2 for buck, 3.1 for moreno).

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

3.8 for Tebow. Give the man the ball!!!!

Seriously though, it's annoying seeing how abysmal our running game is with how many runners we've had on this team that are enjoying moderate success elsewhere. Obviously Hillis, and Mike Bell was good last season. Our problems aren't the RBs, but the RBs clearly aren't helping either. I'm actually starting to come around on Moreno, but that's probably because he's surrounded by total **** and looks decent by comparison.

Actually statistically, he's surrounded by such **** that he doesn't even look decent by any measure other than comparison.

[njx9]

[insert predictable moreno diatribe here]

it just makes me more and more angry that we used a pick on fricking tebow or alphonso smith, instead of trying to grab a guy like iupati. then we drastically overdraft beadles. then we continue to push running plays that have zero chance of success in obvious running situations. then we expect the play action to actually fool someone.

[njx9]

also, does anyone find scott's latest mock pick horrifyingly likely?

[the decider13]

I'd be pretty sad if we ended up with Rudolph with a guy like Heyward still on the board.

[Timbathia]

Agree - I have to believe that we can find a decent TE in FA easier and cheaper than we can find a playmaking defensive front 7 guy.

[njx9]

i don't diagree with any of that. i just don't think mcxanders care(s).

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

I hate the idea of picking a TE. We essentially traded a first rounder for one before the season. Plus we traded away Tony Scheffler, who I was a big fan of. Not to mention, the passing offense is not even close to our problem right now. I can't think of a single good reason to draft Rudolph.

Which makes it the most likely option.

[Timbathia]

I hate the idea of picking a TE. We essentially traded a first rounder for one before the season. Plus we traded away Tony Scheffler, who I was a big fan of. Not to mention, the passing offense is not even close to our problem right now. I can't think of a single good reason to draft Rudolph.

Which makes it the most likely option.

Add to that is if we pick up a TE early, it means that Quinn is regarded as a lost cause, which would pretty much make the 2009 draft as one of the worst ever.

[Timbathia]

1-4 hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

who is 1-4? Are you the guy that is jealous because Orton >>>>> Kolb?

[Diehard]

I'm done with this team.

[njx9]

yeah, looks like i'll be doing a lot of sunday skiing this year.

[Jimmy]

@Josh McDaniels-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g1KcOw7zas

[Diehard]

Time for McD to get fired. Seriously. Lack of heart and discipline were some of the things that particularly bothered me about the end of Shanahan's tenure, and this game has all the same hallmarks.

If you give up when you get some bad breaks, then the team needs a big shakeup.

I wonder if Bill Parcells is willing to come and do one of his patented rebuild jobs?

[Cunningham]

ffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[RaiderNation]

Wtf happened to you guys???

[njx9]

Time for McD to get fired. Seriously. Lack of heart and discipline were some of the things that particularly bothered me about the end of Shanahan's tenure, and this game has all the same hallmarks.

If you give up when you get some bad breaks, then the team needs a big shakeup.

I wonder if Bill Parcells is willing to come and do one of his patented rebuild jobs?

fully agree. the injuries suck, but no one out there even cares.

[Diehard]

Wtf happened to you guys???

Most of the Broncos players gave up after the fumble when we were down 14-0 already. That's when my TV went off - no point in me holding out hope when the team has already quit for the day.

[49erNation85]

WHy the hell is Tebow not in the game yet ! I mean come on , your down so many points and Orton ain't doing **** . Bring in superman and let him try to run the offense and see wht he can do for crying out loud .

[Diehard]

WHy the hell is Tebow not in the game yet ! I mean come on , your down so many points and Orton ain't doing **** . Bring in superman and let him try to run the offense and see wht he can do for crying out loud .

Probably because McD heard the fans booing and chanting for Tebow at the end of the first half.

I originally typed that in jest, but now, with a little more consideration, I think it might actually be the truth.

[njx9]

WHy the hell is Tebow not in the game yet ! I mean come on , your down so many points and Orton ain't doing **** . Bring in superman and let him try to run the offense and see wht he can do for crying out loud .

because he's not ready? because he still can't throw? because he doesn't know the offense, beyond the idiotic half-spread **** mcdaniels keeps trying to run?

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

because he's not ready? because he still can't throw? because he doesn't know the offense, beyond the idiotic half-spread **** mcdaniels keeps trying to run?

With the faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains. So hopefully the faith of a Tim Tebow can move the Broncos offense.

[CT Bronco Fan]

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/ap/96/fullj.a030dadded260179b643065a51261ac7/b6148067086a4a92b9871b29e6ff4fe8.jpg

This picture summarizes most of my feelings toward McDaniels entire tenure as our head coach.

[Diehard]

Interesting article:

http://www.denverpost.com/krieger/ci_16425206

Basically, his point is that there is a direct contradiction between what McD preaches (intelligence, physical play, mental toughness) and what is on display on the field (mental errors, focus on finesse passing, folding in the face of adversity).

[njx9]

all right, so this season is a complete loss. we finish at something around 6-10. pat bowlen executes xanders. then, he gets really drunk somewhere in Lodo, and throws up on your shoes. in an effort to make amends, he hires you as the GM and gives you complete player/personnel control, as well as control over the (new?) coaching staff.

what do you do?

[jCut]

I throw whatever it takes at Cowher/Gruden/Billick (in that order) to be the head coach. Then, I shift Tebow to TE. Come draft day, I load up on lineman and draft a real heir to Orton. Maybe make a trade for a RB like DeAngelo Williams or Jonathan Stewart.

[Timbathia]

I keep starting to comment on things, and then the nausea wave hits and I have to stop.

**** football, **** it right in the ass.

[Cunningham]

all right, so this season is a complete loss. we finish at something around 6-10. pat bowlen executes xanders. then, he gets really drunk somewhere in Lodo, and throws up on your shoes. in an effort to make amends, he hires you as the GM and gives you complete player/personnel control, as well as control over the (new?) coaching staff.

what do you do?
-if the second half of the season resembles the first half in any way, shape or form, fire mcdaniels. there's no sense in bringing back a coach whose team has quit on him
-look to hire urban meyer if mcdaniels is fired. i'm probably in the minority here
-fire clancy barone and mike priefer. both are trash
-i have no idea who's in the upcoming free agent class so i'll leave this area open
-target marcell dareus in the draft, trade up for him if need be. dareus would be a cornerstone for the dline and for the defense as whole

[Me Likey Rookies]

A new coach should get 3 years to build his team, especially when you completely rebuild it the way Josh McDaniels and Raheem Morris have done. 2-5 sucks but (close) losses to the Colts and Jets are understandable especially with all the injuries on both sides of the ball. On the other hand, the Ravens and Raiders (blowout) losses should never happen.

The second half of the schedule is way easier but even if they keep struggling, McD should get a 3rd year. Having Moreno, DT, Kuper, Harris, Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Goodman all missing significant time is a huge reason for 2-5.

[Timbathia]

A new coach should get 3 years to build his team, especially when you completely rebuild it the way Josh McDaniels and Raheem Morris have done. 2-5 sucks but (close) losses to the Colts and Jets are understandable especially with all the injuries on both sides of the ball. On the other hand, the Ravens and Raiders (blowout) losses should never happen.

The second half of the schedule is way easier but even if they keep struggling, McD should get a 3rd year. Having Moreno, DT, Kuper, Harris, Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Goodman all missing significant time is a huge reason for 2-5.

I am going to agree with this. As much as last week has made me want to do anything I can to make me forget about the fact a football season is underway, it is too early to pull the plug on the Josh experiment just yet. He has made a ******** of mistakes, but has also shown enough promise to ride this one out.

What do we need? Some impact players on defense. If Doom and Ayers come back healthy next year, and from somewhere we get a quality MLB and D-lineman that can make plays, then I think we can be okay on that side of the ball. Healthy and especially more experienced o-line, then I think we are okay on that side of the ball. We arent strong enough on either side of the ball to carry the other one, so if one is depleted we get blown the **** out.



"I'm not sugarcoating this. I'm going to be as honest as can be and tell it to you straight. It's not Josh. I've never been more prepared as a player from a head coach. And I've been through five or six already. We knew when the screen play was coming. We just didn't stop it. We knew when it was run-toss and they were going to try to hit the edge. We just didn't stop it. It's not him. People may not understand that, but I'm telling you that's the way it is."

Broncos LB Mario Haggan responding to a suggestions that the Broncos didn't adequately prepare for the Raiders game

[njx9]

i don't frankly care if they don't think it's josh. the entire ******* team quit in the first ******* quarter. that's the absolute hallmark of a poorly coached team. that's the kind of **** the raiders have done for the last 8 years.

though, i'm entertained by the idea that missing a barely #2 cb, a rb averaging 3.3 ypc, a rt who hasn't been healthy in 4 years, and an over the hill safety is why we're 2-5. this team is 2-5 because there isn't any talent at key positions and because the coaching (on both sides of the ball) is atrocious.

i see no reason whatsoever to give a guy an extra year to remove even more talent from the team and dig it even deeper into a hole. i see no reason to spend another 16 games watching a guy who couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag repeatedly call draw plays and screen passes that haven't worked once in the 2 years he's been calling them.

mcdaniels is, as far as i've seen, the worst coach in the nfl right now. period. sometimes, you just have to admit you're wrong, as a franchise.

[Timbathia]

i don't frankly care if they don't think it's josh. the entire ******* team quit in the first ******* quarter. that's the absolute hallmark of a poorly coached team. that's the kind of **** the raiders have done for the last 8 years.

though, i'm entertained by the idea that missing a barely #2 cb, a rb averaging 3.3 ypc, a rt who hasn't been healthy in 4 years, and an over the hill safety is why we're 2-5. this team is 2-5 because there isn't any talent at key positions and because the coaching (on both sides of the ball) is atrocious.

i see no reason whatsoever to give a guy an extra year to remove even more talent from the team and dig it even deeper into a hole. i see no reason to spend another 16 games watching a guy who couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag repeatedly call draw plays and screen passes that haven't worked once in the 2 years he's been calling them.

mcdaniels is, as far as i've seen, the worst coach in the nfl right now. period. sometimes, you just have to admit you're wrong, as a franchise.

And the poll on the Denverpost website about getting rid of Josh shows that 80% of respondents agree with you. I will not be upset in the slightest if he is fired, but, but, I am prepared to give him until the end of next season as I think what he is trying to do can work (not will mind you, but can). A new coach and system right not would be a ******* disaster with the roster we have.

[Cunningham]

let's say that mcdaniels is fired and we don't hire a big name such as gruden or cowher for whatever reason. any good alternatives in that situation?

[njx9]

let's say that mcdaniels is fired and we don't hire a big name such as gruden or cowher for whatever reason. any good alternatives in that situation?

i think gruden would be a terrible choice here. i *hate* his offense. and i'm not really convinced that cowher would be a good fit.

realistically, the most important person in our front office is the gm. xanders should've been canned last april. he should certainly be kicked out after this season. and mcdaniels should be told in no uncertain terms that he will have no input whatsoever into future player/personnel decisions.

And the poll on the Denverpost website about getting rid of Josh shows that 80% of respondents agree with you. I will not be upset in the slightest if he is fired, but, but, I am prepared to give him until the end of next season as I think what he is trying to do can work (not will mind you, but can). A new coach and system right not would be a ******* disaster with the roster we have.

i don't disagree, but i don't think the current coach is anything less than an utter disaster either. i think mcdaniels gets far too much credit for orton and far too little blame for the running game (featuring his hand-picked running backs and the offensive line he chose repeatedly to not address).

that said, i don't think the 80% number is indicative of anything other than the over-reaction of denver fans to any loss to the raiders.

edited to add... yes. i know that part of my reaction to this season is probably 'overreaction'. i agree that a coaching carousel in denver would be a terrible idea. but the mcdaniels/xanders team have already done almost irreparable harm to a team that could've been a serious playoff team every single year. now i just find myself hoping we can win 6 total games. and i'm only still hoping we win because i don't trust anyone in our front office to not butcher yet another day one/two of the draft.

[Diehard]

Clean out all the executives. Joe Ellis is a cockface. Xanders is a piece of ****. Bring in veteran execs to rebuild the management layer. Let them pick a coach who they can work with effectively to renew the team.

I'd really like to see them to bring in new execs now, as it gives them half a season to evaluate the team.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

A new coach should get 3 years to build his team, especially when you completely rebuild it the way Josh McDaniels and Raheem Morris have done. 2-5 sucks but (close) losses to the Colts and Jets are understandable especially with all the injuries on both sides of the ball. On the other hand, the Ravens and Raiders (blowout) losses should never happen.

The second half of the schedule is way easier but even if they keep struggling, McD should get a 3rd year. Having Moreno, DT, Kuper, Harris, Doom, Ayers, Dawkins, Goodman all missing significant time is a huge reason for 2-5.

Raheem Morris completely rebuilt the team because he had to. It was aging, and the cupboard was left pretty bare by Gruden. McD, on the other hand, had a fairly solid team in place. Lots of pieces were there. A 25 year old Pro Bowl QB, a dominant young WR, really only the defense had to be overhauled, that and the offensive line. If we could have improved the interior OL and the redzone playcalling from the year before, we'd have been golden.

When he retooled the defense, which was awful, good things happened. It was pretty clear that Mike Nolan knew what he was doing with the defense. So McD let him walk...

We had franchise cornerstones at QB and WR, and a defensive co-ordinator that made a defense with little talent into a dominant unit for the first few weeks before tailing off. He got rid of them all. Yes, I know there are quotes dating back years about Brandon Marshall wanting the hell out of Denver. But we all saw how happy he was while the team was winning. I don't think he'd have been such a malcontent if the team didn't implode at the end of the year.

Bottom line is we're much worse now than we were then. It isn't age catching up to players, it's McDaniels replacing our best players with inferior ones. Yes, the team is deeper, as has been pointed out. But you can't win with just depth. Depth is a very important part of the puzzle, teams win championships with a combination of great players and depth. But ask yourself, which players are harder to find? Franchise QBs and elite WRs, or adequate replacements if a guy goes down with an injury/fresh legs to rotate in when starters get tired?

PS we still aren't that deep. Just look at what happened when Doom went down.

If, after 2 seasons, a team is worse off now than they'd have been by keeping their old coach, I think it's time to part ways. If this team can't show that they can compete, week in and week out, and start winning games, then it's time to say goodbye to Josh.

[Jimmy]

I feel terrible for all the blokes in england who came to this game expecting to see professional football. What a boring game between two extremely mediocre teams.

edit after half time: game got a lot better obviously

On another note... This is the worst Broncos team I can ever remember in my short 19 year life. Maybe the 1999 or 2000 team was worse... maybe... but this team rivals it. The only positive twist I can see is that for once my team will likely have a top 7 pick in the draft. Maybe we can land the superstar we so desperately need.

My question is.. lets say we get the 5-7th pick in the draft. what is our most pressing need? what do we draft?

I think Da'Quan Bowers may be the safest pick. But do you guys prefer clayborn? Whether or bowers fits in the 3-4 is almost irrelevant since we are just as likely to be running the 4-3 next year with a new head coach. thoughts?

[Jimmy]

deep to lloyd. the only thing we've done well this season. and yet it took us a half to go to him.

edit: and with that, Lloyd has broken his career high receiving yards in a season

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

http://www.ourhonordefend.com/wp-content/uploads/timtebow_diedformysins-234x300.png

[Diehard]

I think Da'Quan Bowers may be the safest pick. But do you guys prefer clayborn? Whether or bowers fits in the 3-4 is almost irrelevant since we are just as likely to be running the 4-3 next year with a new head coach. thoughts?

It's hard to care given the pathetic state of this organization.

Anyway, a lot of our pieces are better suited to a 4-3, but Doom is not which creates a big problem. Maybe he plays a SLB role similar to what Julian Peterson used to do in Seattle? I don't know.

[njx9]

It's hard to care given the pathetic state of this organization.

this.

it pretty much doesn't matter to me, especially if mcxanders get another year.

realistically, we might be best off going back to a 43 and trading doom to some 3-4 team in the nfc. at least then he might have a chance at a winning season before he retires and, if we ask for a pick in 2013, mcdaniels and xanders may not be around to waste it.

[Diehard]

Just thinking about what a bunch of ******* and pussies this team has turned into is pissing me off to no end. **** McD, that **** looks totally lost on the sidelines. It would bring me great satisfaction to see his ******* throat slashed and eyes gouged out.

There. I feel better now. For a moment, at least.

[njx9]

it's incredible to me that, an organization that was one of the best in the league has been utterly and completely destroyed by basically two coaches. so frustrating.

might as well start auctioning off vets and do a full on rebuild. i don't know that i'd keep anything on the entire defensive side of the field. i certainly wouldn't keep much on the offensive side.

[Diehard]

The moves made on the defensive side of the ball are particularly galling, as we brought in a lot of veteran guys who have little to no value if we go into full rebuild mode.

There's a lot of youth on offense, so we could be okay there if we found a QB who didn't crumble under pressure.

[njx9]

meh. we have some WR talent, maybe. we have a LT. and we 'have' tebow.

i think beadles is trash. walton might be ok if he wasn't a starter. but that's about all i see there.

and the worst part is, i really like all three of the top qbs for us this year. and we won't draft any of them because we have a guy we won't even let throw the football.

[Cunningham]

meh. we have some WR talent, maybe. we have a LT. and we 'have' tebow.

i think beadles is trash. walton might be ok if he wasn't a starter. but that's about all i see there.

and the worst part is, i really like all three of the top qbs for us this year. and we won't draft any of them because we have a guy we won't even let throw the football.
luck would be awesome, but i'm not sure why you'd be excited about the other two qbs. locker seems like a project (albeit less of one than tebow) and mallett reminds me too much of cutler.

at this point i'm hoping we draft a stud on defense, a guy like dareus, peterson, amukamara, ect.

[njx9]

luck would be awesome, but i'm not sure why you'd be excited about the other two qbs. locker seems like a project (albeit less of one than tebow) and mallett reminds me too much of cutler.

at this point i'm hoping we draft a stud on defense, a guy like dareus, peterson, amukamara, ect.

mallett is my low in the group, but i think he's coachable. i love locker and think he's 60x the player luck is. and i like luck, but he has a pretty limited ceiling, imo.

the few times i've seen alabama, dareus has looked like ****. unmotivated, lazy, and just counting the days until he gets paid. now, i haven't seen a lot of alabama games, so maybe i just saw the wrong ones. i don't think drafting a corner in the top 5 does anything for us.

*shrug*

as of now, it basically has to be a DL, imo. i don't see any way we can continue to neglect the position. there won't be a linebacker worth a pick that high, but that'd likely be my 2nd round pick.

though, as i think about it, it really doesn't make any difference. there are so many holes, that we're looking at at least a 3 year rebuilding process (unless we get *really* lucky in FA). i guess i'd change my opinion to "BPA unless BPA is at an offensive skill position, then go to the next BPA".

[Cunningham]

mallett is my low in the group, but i think he's coachable. i love locker and think he's 60x the player luck is. and i like luck, but he has a pretty limited ceiling, imo.

the few times i've seen alabama, dareus has looked like ****. unmotivated, lazy, and just counting the days until he gets paid. now, i haven't seen a lot of alabama games, so maybe i just saw the wrong ones. i don't think drafting a corner in the top 5 does anything for us.

*shrug*

as of now, it basically has to be a DL, imo. i don't see any way we can continue to neglect the position. there won't be a linebacker worth a pick that high, but that'd likely be my 2nd round pick.

though, as i think about it, it really doesn't make any difference. there are so many holes, that we're looking at at least a 3 year rebuilding process (unless we get *really* lucky in FA). i guess i'd change my opinion to "BPA unless BPA is at an offensive skill position, then go to the next BPA".
i'm not sure if mallett is that "coachable". maybe his decision making can be improved, but i see him as a guy who will always lack touch and have heavy feet. but who cares, it's a moot point

dareus has been nursing an ankle sprain that he suffered earlier in the year, that might explain some of what you saw. i've still seen a lot of good things from him. out of the top three dline prospects, i think he's the most natural fit at the five tech

i know taking a cb that high isn't ideal, but if peterson and amukamara are the best prospects available then i'd be fine with taking one of them instead of reaching on someone else

[Timbathia]

I have lost my will to discuss such things as the future of this team. Perhaps in the offseason I will get excited about football again.

[Cunningham]

http://www.profile-comments.com/images/quotes/images/keep-your-head-up.gif

[Diehard]

I have lost my will to discuss such things as the future of this team. Perhaps in the offseason I will get excited about football again.

A demoralized team just going through the motions, pretty much expecting to lose, is a fan's worst nightmare. Yet that is what we have and will likely continue to have until the end of the season.

I don't begrudge any fan who chooses to do something more productive with their time on Sunday afternoon.

[Jimmy]

The most frustrating thing (at least to me) is that every single position outside of left tackle and "Doom" needs an upgrade. Bailey will be gone next season anyways, and likely Dawk to retirement.

What is most frustrating is that there is no easy solution to this problem. We will draft players that fill in our most pressing needs, and half of those players will amount to nothing. Of the players that succeed, we will still need to bring in a bunch of other players just to win 8 games, since the players that we deemed "not necessary to replace in the draft" are still mediocre at best.

If you ask me, this is at least a 5-7 year rebuilding project, because half of our ****ing team is comprised of youngsters of whom we still need to give another 2-3 years to prove that they aren't worth squat.

Worse case, we may loose 83 games in the next 7 years like the Raiders of last decade, but the only thing we can do as Broncos fans is to support and remain loyal. After all, there's no point in rooting for the team when we win superbowls if we just ditch when they suck. Lets all hang in there, for all we know, Tebow decides teaching is his passion, and then the next Elway could be right around the corner.

Realistically, we're probably doomed, but there's always hope. Stay loyal.

[EvilNixon]

Even McXanders isn't as bad as Al Davis...Hold your heads up Bronco fans.

[Timbathia]

A demoralized team just going through the motions, pretty much expecting to lose, is a fan's worst nightmare. Yet that is what we have and will likely continue to have until the end of the season.

I don't begrudge any fan who chooses to do something more productive with their time on Sunday afternoon.

I am still going to watch, I will still get excited when we score or make a big play, I will still swear when we **** up, or the other team does something good, or the ref calls a chop block when our RB is trying to get out of his QBs way.

I just cant gather the will to discuss what is going wrong, or how to fix it, or blah, blah. Thinking about this stuff just does my head in at the moment. I need to just watch games on sundays and then pretend football doesnt exist until the next sunday. For some ******* reason though I keep reading stuff about why we lost another ******* game. It is a bad habit I need to break.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

So which sucks more? This season, where we have no hope?

Or the last two seasons, where we had so much hope that we were in the playoffs barring an absolutely catastrophic meltdown of historical significance and then doing just that?

[Jimmy]

So which sucks more? This season, where we have no hope?

Or the last two seasons, where we had so much hope that we were in the playoffs barring an absolutely catastrophic meltdown of historical significance and then doing just that?

At least we have some peace of mind, and at least our hearts won't be broken this year. And I can almost promise all of you that you will be happier by the end of week 17 this year. At least we have that top 10 pick looking like a godsend. Honestly. When was the last time we had a top 10 pick that we truly earned?

In any event, I may have been naive to believe we were a top 5 team after a 6-2 start last year, but I was in a lot more pain week 14 last year than I will be this year.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

At least we have some peace of mind, and at least our hearts won't be broken this year. And I can almost promise all of you that you will be happier by the end of week 17 this year. At least we have that top 10 pick looking like a godsend. Honestly. When was the last time we had a top 10 pick that we truly earned?

In any event, I may have been naive to believe we were a top 5 team after a 6-2 start last year, but I was in a lot more pain week 14 last year than I will be this year.

Not just 6-2, 6-0!

I never thought we were top 5, but winning that 6th game made me believe in the team. I was expecting us to be absolute dog ****, and so when we won the first one i was like, great, 1-15. Even at 5-0 I wasn't sold. 6-0? Yeah, looked at the schedule and saw that 4-6 the rest of the way and a playoff berth would have been a disappointment. I saw another 6 wins there, easy. And instead we went on 2 separate 4 game losing streaks, and **** the bed in the last game, when we were still alive going in. FML.

Season before was awful too. 3 game lead with 3 to go. I was so excited to finally see Cutler in the playoffs... FML.

Even this season getting a premium pick will suck. We're gonna be in range for a QB I think, but we can't take one because we have NO IDEA what Tebow looks like. I think we absolutely need to give Tebow some starts at the end of the season, just enough to see if we have anything at all to work with there or if we should have him work on a new position.

[njx9]

blech. this season is worse. because it's painfully clear this team will not compete for the next 5-10 years. for anything.

and as long as we leave mcdaniels and xanders in place, the team will not be getting any better. having a top 3-5 pick is completely irrelevant when we keep pissing away our picks on trash like moreno, smith, tebow, quinn and just about every other player we've drafted. the only thing that could be worse would be to bring back shanahan as a draft consultant. then we'd have what are probably the three worst player/personnel people in the nfl, instead of just having two of the three worst.

[Diehard]

Nothing sucks worse than a season where the players give up... and that is what seems to have happened. To me, that's a sign of rotten leadership.

Tebow definitely needs to get some time on the field. The thing is McD isn't going to play him until he is absolutely, mathematically certain we can't win the AFC West. Right now, that looks like it could be wrapped up quickly, but every time one of our division foes loses it will create that little glimmer of false hope. You see Tebow is McD's final hand, and he's not going to be keen to play it. McD knows he's immediately dead in the water if Tebow doesn't play well.

The most important upgrades are the core of the defense: DL, ILB and S. Of course, these have been the most important upgrades for about four years now. If McBath can avoid injury, I think he has one safety spot nailed down... but the other is up for grabs.

Speaking of injuries, they are killing this team. All the lost time in TC is showing up on the field now. The defense is finally healing up a bit, though some of those players (e.g. Goodman) still look like they're not ready to go.

Anyway, not a fun time to be a Broncos fan. A coping strategy: if you simply expect everything to go wrong, you won't be disappointed when it does.

[Diehard]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16523671

Ellis added that Bowlen is confident McDaniels can turn around the Broncos, but he stopped short of guaranteeing the coach would return next season.


My read is that McD needs to really turn things around in the second half of the season or he's gone.

Enjoy the hotseat, Josh.

[Timbathia]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_16523671



My read is that McD needs to really turn things around in the second half of the season or he's gone.

Enjoy the hotseat, Josh.

I predict we will beat the Chiefs next week, go 4-4 down the stretch and Josh will keep his job.

[Diehard]

I predict we will beat the Chiefs next week, go 4-4 down the stretch and Josh will keep his job.

A bold prediction. The confidence difference between the Chiefs and Broncos right now is huge. The Broncos are just expecting / waiting for something to go wrong. When you have that mindset, you will lose.

4-4 may be enough to save McD. However, if the team gives up again (ala the Raiders game), he's pretty much done regardless of record.

[njx9]

i don't buy that it matters. bowlen chucked wade phillips after two mediocre seasons. shanahan stuck around by getting better each of his first four years, and even rebounding after elway's retirement before his bad drafting finally caught up with him.

basically, mcdaniels has spent his time in denver making the team, in every possible way, worse than it was before he got here. i don't buy that 8-8 is necessarily enough to save him unless the team looks dramatically different, or because he finally starts tebow to win the last 6 games of the season. for a team and owner who haven't had a substantial down period since 1972, i don't see bowlen as being overly patient with the abject failure this team has been this season.

[Timbathia]

So we are playing the best running team in the NFL and our leading tackler has just been done for his second DUI. If would be quite annoyed if I still cared about how we did this season.

[Diehard]

When it rains...

It will be interesting to see if the team actually shows up for this game. I suspect McD is pretty much done if they don't.

[Timbathia]

When it rains...

It will be interesting to see if the team actually shows up for this game. I suspect McD is pretty much done if they don't.

I think it will actually be a good game. Without Ayers, and possibly DJ, we are going to struggle to contain them on the ground (at least Vickerson is back), though even if all healthy we would struggle.

I am interested to see how Beadles does at LG, and a hopefully now healthy Harris at RT. This is our best line, and with a now healthy Moreno, the offense doesnt really have any excuses (i.e. if we cant move the ball this week then we are just not able to move the ball against a decent defense period).

Hali is a worry - I predict we might get a few holding calls this week trying to stop him from killing Orton.

I honestly think we will either win this or go very close. If we dont, then I suspect you are right and McDaniels will be very close to the edge.

[vidae]

Just wanted to say good luck today guys. Should be a fun game to watch. I love these AFC West rivalries. :)

[ATLDirtyBirds]

How's Ryan Clady been playing this year?

[vidae]

Good game guys.

Well, not really. Good game on your part. We got the **** beat out of us. This one is over before halftime.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/tebowcreation.jpg

And the Lord said, it was good.

[Cunningham]

http://uranus.ckt.net/~gochiefs/oak/haley2.gif

[Me Likey Rookies]

Haley's vagina hurts.

[San Diego Chicken]

Great win yesterday guys, the city of San Diego appreciates it. Wink.

[Diehard]

Haley's vagina hurts.

He grabbed that opportunity to look like a **** on national TV with both hands. Well done.

He should save his angry ***** act for his own players, particularly those on the defensive side of the ball.

[Diehard]

Great win yesterday guys, the city of San Diego appreciates it. Wink.

It will be interesting to see if you appreciate the next game we play.

[Timbathia]

It will be interesting to see if you appreciate the next game we play.

I have been trying not to think about abuse that our secondary is gonna get from Rivers. Lets just enjoy the fact we had an easy win for a few more days.

[Diehard]

I have been trying not to think about abuse that our secondary is gonna get from Rivers. Lets just enjoy the fact we had an easy win for a few more days.

Yes, I am enjoying the win. Even if it turns out to be our last...

Speaking of secondary play, Champ looked like **** out there. He's giving a big cushion and turning his back on the receiver. Not a great combination. Yes, he still has his moments (e.g. 2 pt conversion), but he's not as quick or focused as we've seen him in the past.

[Jimmy]

Yes, I am enjoying the win. Even if it turns out to be our last...

Speaking of secondary play, Champ looked like **** out there. He's giving a big cushion and turning his back on the receiver. Not a great combination. Yes, he still has his moments (e.g. 2 pt conversion), but he's not as quick or focused as we've seen him in the past.


this is precisely why I hope we don't resign him. He is still a damn good corner, but he is likely going to want top corner money. I don't know if it's worth it when the guy is clearly on the decline. He is my favorite denver bronco of all time, but i think this may be his last year.

[Diehard]

He grabbed that opportunity to look like a **** on national TV with both hands. Well done.

Haley apologizes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5809550

Wise decision. The media picked up on this one so it was good to put the fire out immediately.

[Diehard]

this is precisely why I hope we don't resign him. He is still a damn good corner, but he is likely going to want top corner money. I don't know if it's worth it when the guy is clearly on the decline. He is my favorite denver bronco of all time, but i think this may be his last year.

It should be his last year. Honestly, he's lacked focus since that deal got pulled off the table. That was a good financial decision for the franchise in the long run, because he's going to get paid way too much money based on his reputation rather than his recent play on the field.

[Timbathia]

Well after several years of contributing absolutely nothing, Jarvis Moss is no longer a Bronco.

Now watch him go to [insert some **** other NFL team name here] and get 10 sacks in the second half of the season.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Well after several years of contributing absolutely nothing, Jarvis Moss is no longer a Bronco.

Now watch him go to [insert some **** other NFL team name here] and get 10 sacks in the second half of the season.

The sad thing is I see that happening. Well not the 10 sacks this season part, but I could see a team like the Giants picking him up and turning him into a solid contributor.

[Jimmy]

I really hope Moss can turn it around, he seems like a really nice guy who just can't hack it in the league. Seems really soft and sensitive, I'm pretty sure he's dealing with depression too. It'd be a fell good story if he played well and things started going his way.

BRANDON LLOYD HIGHLIGHT VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIuuNBG7CfM

[Timbathia]

Thoughts on tomorrow nights game?

Part of me thinks it will be a close game separated by a penalty flag or special teams mishap, while the other half thinks we lose by about 20 points. I just hope that Joe Mays puts his helmet into Rivers sternum at some point during the game.

[njx9]

i think it will be made clear that last week was a complete aberration and that this team is exactly as bad as everyone thought they were 2 weeks ago.

[CT Bronco Fan]

i think it will be made clear that last week was a complete aberration and that this team is exactly as bad as everyone thought they were 2 weeks ago.

Always the Optimist. =)