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jCut
12-27-2010, 12:03 AM
I love Tebow, I just hope he doesn't get knocked-the-****-out. He took a shot from Brian Cushing today, and there will be a lot more of those to come. Can't wait to see how he does against a solid San Diego defense next week.

Diehard
12-27-2010, 12:38 AM
I thought Tebow played well today. The jump ball to Lloyd has been part of the offense all year long, so I'm not going to criticize him for taking those shots. He's pretty much the anti-Orton with his mobility and leadership.

On a related note, I noticed Champ was changing his tune a little bit after the game... suddenly he's hoping he'll get to play many more games with Tebow. Interesting.

Jimmy
12-27-2010, 09:03 AM
regardless of what champ does, i'm still of the opinion that we should be taking amukamara or peterson if we pick in the top 3 and there isn't value in a trade down. bowers would be a horrific pick for a 34 DE, and i don't buy that fairley's worth it.

i'm highly interested in dissenting opinions if anyone has one.

Fairley better put on some weight. Dude's strong as it is, but unless we plan on using him as an end, I'd think our starting nose tackle had bettter be at least 315. As for Peterson and Amukamara, I'm not the biggest Prince fan and I honestly don't think he's even a top 10 pick. He gets behind his man a little too much for a top 10 corner pick i.m.o., and gets flat outran sometimes. the good news is that he plays the ball correctly once he's behind. If he had a little more recovery speed, I'd say go for it.

I don't get the big deal with this guy. I'd almost go as far as saying he deserves to slip to the late 1st. I will need to watch his bowl game before I'm able to truly back that up, though.

I'm convinced Peterson is the best corner prospect in at least 5 years and that he is worth a top 5 overall pick. Even at #2.

Jimmy
12-27-2010, 10:02 AM
P.S. I did the math including strength of schedule tie breaking, and the worst we can draft at this point is #5.

MizzouBig12
12-27-2010, 02:54 PM
I loved watching Tebow in this game, his ability to improvise and scrap are extremely fun to watch. Not a whole lot different in how Michael Vick makes something out of nothing. Maybe even more along the lines of Steve Young (Broncos fans can certainly hope).

I noted that some fans were hoping for losses so as to get a better draft pick, that could be traded for a quantity of other picks. It's better to get a win or two, to drop down to a "tradeable" draft slot, such as the number five noted above. It's a rarity when a top 2 or 3 pick can be bartered.

Cunningham
12-27-2010, 04:55 PM
has anyone living in colorado been able to see much of jimmy smith? i've liked what i've seen from him, but i don't get that many cu games. definitely a guy that i wouldn't mind targeting with our high second rounder

Cunningham
12-27-2010, 05:05 PM
what don't you like about him? i know he loses his focus at times and isn't much in run support, is he too raw?

Brent
12-27-2010, 05:13 PM
I hate to admit it, but I was kind of rooting for Timmy towards the end of that game. I have a lot of friends in Denver and I know how much that win meant to them haha.

jCut
12-27-2010, 06:24 PM
I think I may be in the minority here, but I think we need a switch back to the 4-3. Besides Elvis, nobody on our defense fits the 3-4, and Elvis has proven that he can play in either system. Also, there is no way we can afford to take a DB at #2 when we are so god-awful in the trenches. Franchise Champ and go front-seven the first three picks. We still need a MLB. We still need a pass-rush. We still need a disruptive force up-the-middle. Those needs come first, IMO. And Fairley / Bowers / Quinn are all top-5 talents and worthy candidates.

Babylon
12-27-2010, 07:08 PM
bowers and quinn (and really fairley) are, imo, poor choices in the top 5 for a 3-4. if we went back to a 4-3, i'd fully agree, but if we stick in the 3-4, CB would offer us the best potential player for our pick, and i don't believe this is a defense that can't use a great player at any position other than OLB. i think the idea of spending a top 5 pick on a 34 DE is insane. especially when people are suggesting that bowers or quinn should play the spot.

Do you see Peterson playing corner or safety in that defense?

bigbuc
12-28-2010, 12:38 AM
I think if you think he can play Safety then yes take him, resign Champ and don't look back. If not then you draft a DT or DE and go that way... I like PP a lot. But I'm a BPA guy all the way so if someone grades out better I'll take them.

Me Likey Rookies
12-28-2010, 12:42 AM
Keep PP at CB. If Champ re-signs or is franchised, you got Champ and PP at CB which is crazy and Champ can mentor for at least a season.

jCut
12-29-2010, 01:25 AM
there isn't a single 34 DE or NT that would/will grade out higher. period.

I wouldn't go that far just yet. I still think Fairley would make a fine 3-4 end. Let's see what happens after workouts.

jCut
12-29-2010, 04:37 PM
he'd be ok, but he'd be a complete waste. why bother with a guy who will just be ok?

* assuming, of course, we stay in a 34. in a 43, everything changes.

That's my point, kind of. I don't see either PP or Amukamara as GREAT players, and I'm not a big fan of taking DBs that early in the draft. It's a tough position to be in. Most 3-4 prospects just aren't worth a top-5 pick. Hopefully, we either switch back to a 4-3 or trade down.

Bosanac01
12-29-2010, 08:16 PM
What do you guys think about Mike Mularkey?

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/22477/mike-mularkey-could-fit-in-denver

Cunningham
12-29-2010, 10:00 PM
meh, he wouldn't be the most inspiring hire, but i doubt he'd be any worse than someone like nolan or kubiak.

i guess i'm not overly concerned about who the next head coach is, as long as we bring in a legit gm.

DBNYDP
12-30-2010, 03:10 AM
He did throw some good balls. Enough to convince me he might be the guy. He needs to work on his footwork, that hurt him more than the motion, especially getting those feet planted and transferring the power from your hips and everything. Regardless, overcoming that deficit against one of the better second half teams is impressive.

Enough about Tebow.
I for one would like to see a change to the 4-3.
I think we really aren't built for a 3-4. Need to pretty much replace the whole front 7 (with the exception of Doom, Ayers is safe for a year, and Mays might be able to start) but it doesn't fit us.
I know everyone is all like but we payed Doom so we need to stay 3-4, because he is terrible in a 4-3. I think bringing in some talent at DT (Fairley is a beast) will make his job easier, plus I mean he isn't a complete 3-4 OLB either..Ayers looks like a protypical 4-3 DE, and I think he would really prosper with his hand on the ground. He was pretty explosive with his hand on the ground at Tennesse, and I think that would help our pass rush too. I always want the guy who will make the most impact, and unless PP goes to safety I think that is by far Nick Fairley on the defensive side. The guy is a monster, and will improve our defense greatly. I could see us getting a guy like Greg Jones to be an MLB (He's smaller, but he has good speed/instinct/leadership (sorely needed on defense). As for the other OLB position, maybe targeting Bruce Carter, put Woodyard there for now, maybe Donta Hightower would work. The point being we have some options there. And those could all be in the 3rd round. With our other 2nd rounder we could grab a DB on the board, the CB class is pretty deep,and who knows a guy like Moore/Tate might drop there. Or we can use it to get another DT, someone like Nevis might drop (especially if his combine is bad, which wouldn't be a surprise). Otherwise we could go after a TE there, and get a safety/DB guy later Another option is to put Jones as an OLB in the 4-3 (It would fit fine) and then get someone like Shepard to play in the middle. Shepard is kind of slow but great instincts/leadership/good tackler/has a lot of strength/fights off blockers well..
Love to sign Eric Weddle.

If we stay 3-4 I suggest something like...
A: Take Peterson draft normal
B: Trade down/stock pile picks
I can't really project the value of Option B, but A would look something like...
Peterson - 1st round
Moch (It would make a nice pass rush duo, he can immediately contribute as pass rush specialist/with good tackling skills he can be starting OLB, maybe Ayers moves inside/trade baited/or becomes depth) -2nd
Taylor/Powe (Need for 3-4 NT, I have both as my top linemen) 2nd
Shepherd (or some sort of ILB here, draft is kind of weak here, so I wouldn't even mind getting another linemen) 3rd
and then just go for value past that point
Sign an ILB at least as stop gap and use Mays/Ayers/D.J for the other position


Also what do you guys think about Champ staying? I know he expressed disappointment and said he was going to go,but that was when the Broncos were probably at the lowest part of their season. He stated before this year that he had wanted to remain a Bronco, and given the recent "success" of the team maybe he stays. He seems to have a mancrush on Tebow as well.

I'd like to see Rivera in some form on this team.
And I would like to keep Ben McDaniels, he seems to be doing a good job with QBs..
Everyone else needs to be fired. I wouldn't mind Kubiak as OC, he can coach QBs, and I think his system would work well for Tebow. He might be able to resurrect our running game.

MattyFos
12-30-2010, 09:25 AM
He did throw some good balls. Enough to convince me he might be the guy. He needs to work on his footwork, that hurt him more than the motion, especially getting those feet planted and transferring the power from your hips and everything. Regardless, overcoming that deficit against one of the better second half teams is impressive.

Enough about Tebow.
I for one would like to see a change to the 4-3.
I think we really aren't built for a 3-4. Need to pretty much replace the whole front 7 (with the exception of Doom, Ayers is safe for a year, and Mays might be able to start) but it doesn't fit us.
I know everyone is all like but we payed Doom so we need to stay 3-4, because he is terrible in a 4-3. I think bringing in some talent at DT (Fairley is a beast) will make his job easier, plus I mean he isn't a complete 3-4 OLB either..Ayers looks like a protypical 4-3 DE, and I think he would really prosper with his hand on the ground. He was pretty explosive with his hand on the ground at Tennesse, and I think that would help our pass rush too. I always want the guy who will make the most impact, and unless PP goes to safety I think that is by far Nick Fairley on the defensive side. The guy is a monster, and will improve our defense greatly. I could see us getting a guy like Greg Jones to be an MLB (He's smaller, but he has good speed/instinct/leadership (sorely needed on defense). As for the other OLB position, maybe targeting Bruce Carter, put Woodyard there for now, maybe Donta Hightower would work. The point being we have some options there. And those could all be in the 3rd round. With our other 2nd rounder we could grab a DB on the board, the CB class is pretty deep,and who knows a guy like Moore/Tate might drop there. Or we can use it to get another DT, someone like Nevis might drop (especially if his combine is bad, which wouldn't be a surprise). Otherwise we could go after a TE there, and get a safety/DB guy later Another option is to put Jones as an OLB in the 4-3 (It would fit fine) and then get someone like Shepard to play in the middle. Shepard is kind of slow but great instincts/leadership/good tackler/has a lot of strength/fights off blockers well..
Love to sign Eric Weddle.

If we stay 3-4 I suggest something like...
A: Take Peterson draft normal
B: Trade down/stock pile picks
I can't really project the value of Option B, but A would look something like...
Peterson - 1st round
Moch (It would make a nice pass rush duo, he can immediately contribute as pass rush specialist/with good tackling skills he can be starting OLB, maybe Ayers moves inside/trade baited/or becomes depth) -2nd
Taylor/Powe (Need for 3-4 NT, I have both as my top linemen) 2nd
Shepherd (or some sort of ILB here, draft is kind of weak here, so I wouldn't even mind getting another linemen) 3rd
and then just go for value past that point
Sign an ILB at least as stop gap and use Mays/Ayers/D.J for the other position


Also what do you guys think about Champ staying? I know he expressed disappointment and said he was going to go,but that was when the Broncos were probably at the lowest part of their season. He stated before this year that he had wanted to remain a Bronco, and given the recent "success" of the team maybe he stays. He seems to have a mancrush on Tebow as well.

I'd like to see Rivera in some form on this team.
And I would like to keep Ben McDaniels, he seems to be doing a good job with QBs..
Everyone else needs to be fired. I wouldn't mind Kubiak as OC, he can coach QBs, and I think his system would work well for Tebow. He might be able to resurrect our running game.


There can NEVER be enough Tebow! He got me like 28 points in my Fantasy Football league. Timmy T (as I've taken to calling him) is my dude. Wanted the Browns to take him in the second. Angry that the Broncos stole him!

MattyFos
12-30-2010, 09:28 AM
In all seriousness I hope Timmy T becomes a great NFL QB. No player, who comes to mind, deserves to be as good at his profession as he is at being a person. I have developed a big man crush on him since his final year at Florida. Can't wait to see the ESPN documentary I heard about.

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 09:16 AM
Prince is officially out of the equation at #2. He yet again proved that he isn't worthy of a top 10 pick, had MAYBE an above average game last night. I'd attribute his success to the complete inability of any Washington WR's to get off the l.o.s. (Dennard is the better, more physical Nebraska corner, btw) I watched Prince once again get outrun by several times, and the QB just simply missed the throw/read. Any team that takes this guy top 15 for that matter is NUTS. PP is really our only option at #2.

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 09:30 AM
Da'Quan Bowers is playing at 12:00 EST, for anyone who wants a chance to see him play. Not the best fit, but if we go back to a 4-3 I think he is a more appropriate pick than PP at #2-5.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGO2T8VOYF0

DBNYDP
12-31-2010, 09:59 AM
If we go back to 4-3, then we need Fairley.

Dennard could be a nice late round pick for the Broncos if he declares/slips to later rounds.
Haggs is worth a look.
Helu had a terrible game. I was pretty high on him before this, not as much now.

Who was the Washington DT? And I didn't see if Mason Foster was too impressive, was he? Worth a look as a 4-3 MLB/3-4 ILB?

If we pick Bowers, I would assume we trade Doom, as many use him as the reason to not switch to 4-3. A Marshall like trade? 2 2nds perhaps? Best pass rusher in the league is pretty useful imo.

Morton
12-31-2010, 10:48 AM
i really don't want fairley. i'm hugely wary of taking a guy who's had one good season (outside of, for instance, a senior qb who didn't start until his final year). i don't really like bowers at all, but i'll check out the game later today...


But Fairley is just a flat-out beast. One year or not, you can't ignore that level of production and elite athletic ability.

DBNYDP
12-31-2010, 11:20 AM
I can see where you are coming from.
I disagree but I don't think there is much point in debating it.
I'd look at Jenkins from Clemson too.

Cunningham
12-31-2010, 11:27 AM
given how terrible we are on defense, i really don't want to trade away the only proven player that we can build around. seems too much like a lateral move

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 11:36 AM
If we go back to 4-3, then we need Fairley.

Dennard could be a nice late round pick for the Broncos if he declares/slips to later rounds.
Haggs is worth a look.

Dennard is sadly coming back for his senior year. I think he'd go on the first day. 3rd. Round. Is that even the first day anymore?

As for Hagg, he looked slow as hell, his steps were short and choppy, and all i remember from him was watching him getting toasted by a second rate slot receiver on a routine post route.

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 11:40 AM
Also, outside of Bowers, I think we should take a look at this DT McClain from USF the 4th or 5th. 310 LBS and looks really quick. Take a look if you happen to flip on the game.

DBNYDP
12-31-2010, 12:01 PM
Dennard is sadly coming back for his senior year. I think he'd go on the first day. 3rd. Round. Is that even the first day anymore?

As for Hagg, he looked slow as hell, his steps were short and choppy, and all i remember from him was watching him getting toasted by a second rate slot receiver on a routine post route.
Hagg has actually looked really good before last night though.
I'm pretty sure he is one of the reasons why Prince has looked as good as he is.

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 12:08 PM
given how terrible we are on defense, i really don't want to trade away the only proven player that we can build around. seems too much like a lateral move

I really don't envision switching to a 4-3 being a problem for Doom. He posted something like (edit) 17 sacks as a senior at UL in a 4-3, and really showed promise in his rookie or second season and posted 10 sacks.

jCut
12-31-2010, 01:24 PM
And I didn't see if Mason Foster was too impressive, was he? Worth a look as a 4-3 MLB/3-4 ILB?

I like what I saw out of Mason Foster. He showed the ability to get off blocks against a good Nebraska OL.

DBNYDP
12-31-2010, 01:29 PM
I really don't envision switching to a 4-3 being a problem for Doom. He posted something like (edit) 17 sacks as a senior at UL in a 4-3, and really showed promise in his rookie or second season and posted 10 sacks.
Yes, I don't get those who say he will have problems rushing the passer in a 4-3. He prefers pass rushing with his hand on the ground if anything. He had like 12 sacks, when used nearly exclusively on the third down, and that was with a terrible Broncos line.

I think the legitimate concern is his ability to stop the run. Though I think with a strong enough defensive line (really my key concern with the draft) it isn't a problem. We can always at least count on him to take up the blocker, he might not get off the blocker but if he can make the blocker stay on him, he is still taking away a gap, and is allowing the LBs to make plays.

I've never been more anxious for an offseason. I'm actually really excited. I guess that is what being on the bottom does for you. Can only look one way.
And I want to know what defense we are going to use so my posts don't have to stop being so long, and can be more pointed to a specific system/players.

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 07:10 PM
Honestly, after watching Bowers today... Unimpressed. I Know there's more to him than I saw, you don't just become NCAA DPOY for no reason. But he really wasn't all that explosive, wasn't as fast as I expected. At this point, I want a sure thing with a top 5 pick. I'm sure Bowers will have a solid career, but I think we need an explosive player who can hit the corner and rush the passer using power AND speed. maybe I'm overthinking this, he did have at least a sack (although I had to miss an hour to drive my brother to the train station) and has posted 16-17 sacks this year so clearly he can rush, but I wonder if he will be able to do so at the next level as effectively.

Another user put it wisely when they stated that he probably will never put up crazy numbers, and that he lacked an elite first step that you'd expect out of someone who was a running back in high school. I could not agree more.

I really hope to see how he weighs/what his body fat is and how fares at the combine because he needs to prove it to me. I would pass on the kid seeing what I saw today.

PP or bust.

Jimmy
12-31-2010, 07:14 PM
I just found out that the half sack he recorded wasn't given to him. He was held sackless.

DBNYDP
01-01-2011, 01:05 PM
I wasn't really looking at Bowers this year. Just for the fact that if we go to 4-3, we better be getting Fairley. And if we go to 3-4, I'm worried about his ability to be a gamechanging 3-4 linemen with a top 5 pick.

Jimmy
01-01-2011, 02:52 PM
Dareus is an *absolute stud*, if I may for a moment steal the asterisks for purposes of emphasis. After watching this game, it'd be hard for me to defend us not taking him, regardless of value. Maybe we trade down a few spots. Anyone who puts Fairley ahead of him after this game (barring a Suh like performance from Fairley in the National Championship Game) is out of their mind. Dareus played the entire game on a 3 man front at end, and absolutely dominated. I have no question this guy can play end in our system anymore. The only question that remains is related to character/motivation issues, and those are things that just might have to be ignored.

At this point, this is what our draft board/priority sheet should look like.

1. Marcel Dareus (trade down a few spots?)
-or-
2. Patrick Peterson (terrific value & the sexier pick, but we all know we just need to go DL, DL, Dl, MLB this year.

DBNYDP
01-01-2011, 03:33 PM
Dareus is an *absolute stud*, if I may for a moment steal the asterisks for purposes of emphasis. After watching this game, it'd be hard for me to defend us not taking him, regardless of value. Maybe we trade down a few spots. Anyone who puts Fairley ahead of him after this game (barring a Suh like performance from Fairley in the National Championship Game) is out of their mind. Dareus played the entire game on a 3 man front at end, and absolutely dominated. I have no question this guy can play end in our system anymore. The only question that remains is related to character/motivation issues, and those are things that just might have to be ignored.

At this point, this is what our draft board/priority sheet should look like.

1. Marcel Dareus (trade down a few spots?)
-or-
2. Patrick Peterson (terrific value & the sexier pick, but we all know we just need to go DL, DL, Dl, MLB this year.
I don't know how getting Dareus would work.
Some scouts have him in the second at this point.
Also..how were Hightower/Jones?

Jimmy
01-01-2011, 03:41 PM
I don't know how getting Dareus would work.
Some scouts have him in the second at this point.
Also..how were Hightower/Jones?

Julio was amazing, although his stats didn't show it. All 3 of his catches came on 1 drive I believe, had a 30 yard td run. Really as dominant as you can get when your team is running the ball over and over in a 49-7 whipping. As dominant as you can get physically for a WR.

Hightower got overshadowed by Dareus, Upshaw and Nico Johnson.

As for scouts having Dareus in the 2nd, I believe you, but I'm just curious... who in their right mind would have that guy anywhere out of their top 15? You could easily justify reaching for him at #2-5 at this point.

BamaFalcon59
01-01-2011, 03:56 PM
I agree, I've been saying for over a year now that Dareus is easily the most impressive player on that defense and should be a top pick.

Jimmy
01-01-2011, 04:26 PM
I agree, I've been saying for over a year now that Dareus is easily the most impressive player on that defense and should be a top pick.

Rightly so, nobody really likes him right now because he didn't give a flying **** this season. He played his cards right and gave it his all his last game. In two weeks or so, (or whenever Kiper/McShay/Scott release their updated mocks) I guarantee you that the general consensus on this board will be that Dareus is a top 10 lock again, and I'd bet on 2:1 odds that he's a top 5 pick come April if he stays in shape and doesn't roll up to the Indy combine in a stolen Hummer.

edit: all of this, of course, assuming he declares

Jimmy
01-01-2011, 04:41 PM
which is exactly why i don't want him anywhere near denver. let him go infect some other locker room.

In any event, I have no proof one way or the other that he was a lazy ****, I'm just going on what I've read. That's why I'd love to get a chance to interview the kid and really see what he's like. There's always a chance he's been so "bleh" simply because he's been injured, although that's just speculation as well. That's where the combine and personal interviews will come in handy.

DBNYDP
01-01-2011, 06:15 PM
I meant Greg Jones :D

Jimmy
01-01-2011, 06:23 PM
I meant Greg Jones :D

Greg Jones was okay, certainly not all over the place like I expected early on, but he was flying around giving it his all despite MSU being down by 40. Not particularly amazing at getting into the backfield and stopping the ballcarried, but good enough.

jCut
01-01-2011, 11:48 PM
Anyone who puts Fairley ahead of him after this game (barring a Suh like performance from Fairley in the National Championship Game) is out of their mind.

You serious? Fairley was dominant all season. So Dareus finally showed up this year.. Count me as not impressed. I still think he will be a top-10 pick, but I don't get how this one game against an overrated Michigan State team makes him the best DL in the draft.

Jimmy
01-02-2011, 08:59 AM
You serious? Fairley was dominant all season. So Dareus finally showed up this year.. Count me as not impressed. I still think he will be a top-10 pick, but I don't get how this one game against an overrated Michigan State team makes him the best DL in the draft.

To be honest (but not to make excuses) my guess would be that he got double teamed a lot more this year just because of his play last year. At his best (whether that means he was finally healthy, or whether it means he actually tried) he's a more talented prospect than Fairley, and in my humble opinion, that is completely undeniable. He's a game changer, and unlike Fairley, he's been playing at this high of a level since high school as well, which leads me to believe he isn't just a one year wonder.

It wasn't just the one game against an overrated Michigan State team, it was the fact that he literally tore through double teams like newspaper. It's the fact that he's done it multiple times earlier in his collegiate career. If Fairley had one more year of quality play, I'd definitely have a different opinion of him. It's a very neutral opinion I have at this point in time. Dareus has the higher ceiling, is bigger, and is more explosive. I really do think he will be one of the best 3-4 DE's in the league if he wants to be.

Diehard
01-04-2011, 01:00 PM
I really don't envision switching to a 4-3 being a problem for Doom. He posted something like (edit) 17 sacks as a senior at UL in a 4-3, and really showed promise in his rookie or second season and posted 10 sacks.

He's a good pass rusher from a 4-man front. However, he's terrible at holding the point of attack as a DE in a traditional 4-3 scheme.

The 3-4 is a better fit overall for him, IMO.

Timbathia
01-04-2011, 04:36 PM
Mularkey to be interviewed.

Orton up for grabs for a second round pick.

Lots of change coming.

jCut
01-05-2011, 11:11 AM
Broncos are set to interview two head coaching candidates, Greg Williams and Perry Fewell, that use the 43 system. A telling sign of things to come?

Diehard
01-05-2011, 06:18 PM
what's sad is that i'm not actually sure that our defense is in any worse shape than it was when shanahan got canned. as much as i hate mcdaniels, i think shanny did far more damage to this team.

Shanahan destroyed the defense. No question about that. Terrible drafting, DC-as-scapegoat, constant scheme changes.... ugh.

Diehard
01-05-2011, 06:28 PM
Broncos are set to interview two head coaching candidates, Greg Williams and Perry Fewell, that use the 43 system. A telling sign of things to come?

The 4-3 is a better fit for our talent overall. 3-4 is better for Doom.

That being said, Williams and Fewell both know how to use pass rushers and bring pressure. I'm confident they'd both be able to find ways to use Doom effectively in their schemes.

Of the HC candidates mentioned so far, I like Williams the best. I remember the Redskins playing some good D under him, and he's done well with the Saints despite injuries and some questionable parts.

DBNYDP
01-05-2011, 06:53 PM
I still think Doom needs another chance as an every down guy in a 4-3 with some talent around him, and good DC scheming with his weakness in mind.

I would like to point out...that Robert Ayers is a really good prospect at 4-3 DE. And you know the Giants took JPP last year, if Fewell comes in he might take a guy like...Allen Bailey from Miami. The guy is an animal, and if he is developed there he can be special. Plus he might be available in the 3rd at this point..
Something like Ayers/Fairley/Nevis or Veteran/Doom or Bailey and we would have a great starting 4.

Williams defense didn't have the best pieces last year but he still got it done. Very aggressive, and capitalizes on how the other offense needs to match our defense to create turnovers. I'd be happy with him/Fewell. I'm low on Nolan because of the fallout of our defense, and I'm also really high on Rivera, who can do both schemes.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-05-2011, 09:55 PM
I think I might be the worst fan in sports, when it comes to teams. I'm a fan of:

Us(2nd worst in the league)
New Jersey Devils(worst team in NHL by 8 points)
Cleveland Cavaliers
Canada(******* biggest choke of all time. Yes, bigger than us choking our 3 game lead with 3 games to go, and our 6-0 start to finish 8-8. COMBINED)

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 10:16 AM
I think I might be the worst fan in sports, when it comes to teams. I'm a fan of:

Us(2nd worst in the league)
New Jersey Devils(worst team in NHL by 8 points)
Cleveland Cavaliers
Canada(******* biggest choke of all time. Yes, bigger than us choking our 3 game lead with 3 games to go, and our 6-0 start to finish 8-8. COMBINED)


I say it was the original name change you made. everything went down hill right around the time you got rid of chris, and it keeps getting worse.

Cunningham
01-06-2011, 12:31 PM
schefter saying we cancelled/postponed our interview with mularkey. this is interesting...he seemed to be the early favorite for the job. i'm hoping for rivera, but for some reason we haven't expressed interest in him as far as i know.

Diehard
01-06-2011, 02:10 PM
schefter saying we cancelled/postponed our interview with mularkey. this is interesting...he seemed to be the early favorite for the job. i'm hoping for rivera, but for some reason we haven't expressed interest in him as far as i know.

From the stuff the Atl J-C has been posting, it looks like he is out of the running for the job.

I keep hearing rumors that that our top choice is someone who we haven't gotten permission to speak to yet. Perhaps Mularkey got wind of that and decided he didn't want to be a token candidate?

I don't think this is a huge loss.

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 04:04 PM
the luck decision obviously sucks. we no longer have the choice of any player we want.

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 04:18 PM
meh. i don't think it changes much. i have to guess bowers or like, green goes first. that still leaves us pretty open.

you're right, idk. i guess knowing luck was going #1 was almost like having a #1 pick of our own though. chances are we get our guy.

btw- can't wait to see PP play tomorrow. 8 PM EST. he's really the only guy that we are likely to draft that would fit flawlessly regardless of the headcoach. not sure if drafting a corner is the best way to turn this team around as even Champ himself couldn't get this team where it needed to be even in his prime. but he certainly would be great building block

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 04:24 PM
Also, i'm sure you guys know already but in case you don't-
tune into ESPN 7 PM EST tonight. There's some Tebow documentary on.

49erNation85
01-06-2011, 06:51 PM
Also, i'm sure you guys know already but in case you don't-
tune into ESPN 7 PM EST tonight. There's some Tebow documentary on.

I expected more on the documentary .But it was still a fun show to watch just see and learn how much mental crap he had go threw in changing his motion and up to draft day.I was hoping they would have done more of the first two of his starts in Denver was still a good watch.

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 07:12 PM
I expected more on the documentary .But it was still a fun show to watch just see and learn how much mental crap he had go threw in changing his motion and up to draft day.I was hoping they would have done more of the first two of his starts in Denver was still a good watch.

it was created way before his first two starts though. filming ended a while ago. i LOVED it. definitely makes me a fan of the guy.

Timbathia
01-06-2011, 08:51 PM
i dunno about that. for a while, champ was the only thing making the defense even remotely respectable. i have no doubt, for instance, we wouldn't have come anywhere near the AFCCG a few years ago without him.

For what it is worth (which is probably not much), Woody Paige in the Denverpost believes that Champ will be back with the Broncos. Apparently Champ would come back as long as he doesnt have to take a pay cut and he thinks the Broncos are heading in the right direction.

I only find this interesting as I had thought it was a done deal that Champ would leave.

DBNYDP
01-06-2011, 08:56 PM
I just don't think a corner has the impact other guys do. I'd love to take him if he could play safety.
The draft has a lot of good defensive linemen so trading down..

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 09:10 PM
i dunno about that. for a while, champ was the only thing making the defense even remotely respectable. i have no doubt, for instance, we wouldn't have come anywhere near the AFCCG a few years ago without him.

How are we any better off than back in 2006 if we draft PP and loose Champ, though? Here we are, talking about how we need to put the pieces together, and were looking to essentially construct a team with the same foundation as when we started to plummet.

When I said Champ couldn't get us where we needed to be, I meant winning a Superbowl, not simply being "respectable" as a unit. Champ was the best corner in the game a few years ago, but he couldn't do it alone, and that should tell everyone upstairs that PP won't be able to do it alone either.

Darrent Williams. Kelly Herndon. Dre Bly. Andre Goodman. Perrish Cox.

I think it's become blatantly apparent that no matter how locked down the left side is, teams can just stay away from Champ and pick on #2, even if PP develops into the next #24, we still have to address our front 7. Do we need to address the corner position eventually? Yep, but at this point in time, we all know it's not the most pressing need.

One thing that has remained constant the last few years is that we've had atrocious pass rush. No matter how good Champ plays, we've always had issues on the other half of the field. We've never been the stellar pass defense that you'd expect with him. We've had a few top 10 seasons pass defense wise. Nothing that would make me ooh or ahh.

Back too PP, he will have to work his ass off to touch where Champ was 4 years ago, and even then, we will need a more talented front 7... Having a stud corner is a luxury, but it is nowhere near as important as having a solid front 7, IMO.

I just don't think corner is the most pressing need. Do I think Padlock Peterson or whatever we want to call him is the BPA? Yes, I have him slightly higher than Dareus at this point. I think he's the best corner prospect in years, and I LOVE me a talented corner. But if we take him and don't address the front 7, we're back in 2006 again, with an elite corner and a mediocre to subpar defense.

I will not complain or be upset if we draft him. We'd be getting a future pro bowler. I'd just prefer a stud DL.

Timbathia
01-06-2011, 09:16 PM
I will not complain or be upset if we draft him. We'd be getting a future pro bowler. I'd just prefer a stud DL.

I think the counter-argument though is that it is debatable how much of a stud DL you are getting this year at #2. None of the DL guys this year are as good of a prospect as Suh or McCoy from last year. Will they be dominant in the NFL, or just good? There will also be DL guys available at the start of the second that will make good NFL starters. The question then becomes which combination are we better off with - DL/CB or CB/DL with our first two picks.

Jimmy
01-06-2011, 10:32 PM
I think the counter-argument though is that it is debatable how much of a stud DL you are getting this year at #2. None of the DL guys this year are as good of a prospect as Suh or McCoy from last year. Will they be dominant in the NFL, or just good? There will also be DL guys available at the start of the second that will make good NFL starters. The question then becomes which combination are we better off with - DL/CB or CB/DL with our first two picks.

I think Dareus will be a Suh type talent if he plays 3-4 end. I say Suh because I can't think of a powerful, stud 3-4 DE off the top of my head for w/e reason. BUT I mean it when I say it; I have no clue if the kid is a complete headcase with no work ethic, or if he's really truly got his head on straight. We'll have to wait for the media to expose that, one way or another.

So, maybe we trade down a few spots and grab him. I think he's worth the #2 if it turns out he's a good guy. But... I'd rather stockpile anyway. If he does play 4-3 tackle for us, I truly believe he is a pro bowl level talent coming out, and has the potential to be as good as anyone.

Jimmy
01-07-2011, 11:29 AM
dareus is nothing like suh, and 34 DEs will never have that kind of impact.

Statistically, they will never have an impact. I don't really care about stats in this situation, because presence wise, they have an enormous impact. Do I care if a corner will make our team a little better than a 3-4 end singlehandedly would? No, not really. Because there are 10 (edit: 10 other) men on the field, and like I said, I don't want to be back in '06, where CB is our strength, with a bunch of questions everywhere else. We can't ignore the front 7 any longer, and the main thing is that taking a CB and putting off the front 7 till round 2 or 3 increases the odds that we won't have a solid front 7 any time soon.

now, why is there this false choice? what, we take PP, then go TE, TE, TE the rest of the draft? there are some fantastic values for the 34 from the 2-3 round, imo,

Like I said, going 3-4 round 2 or 3 decreases the odds that we have a solid front 7 any time soon, as opposed to selecting a guy round 1, whether it be trading down or not. IMHO.

and i don't think it's even a little unreasonable to take peterson first

I don't think it's unreasonable either. I've expressed my PP opinion serveral times, I think he's the best corner prospect in years. I agree with you and this entire board here.

given that he presents a FAR better return on the pick than dareus or fairley ever would.


Awesome to see somebody finally developed time travel.

further, champ made that defense respectable, rather than the worst defense in the league by far. sort of like dumervil did last year. that's a MASSIVE contribution from one guy out of eleven.

I'm not looking for individual contributions though, I'm looking for someone to make our defense as a whole better, in the run and the pass game. That's what we need. I think were better off as a unit in 2-3 years with an extra piece in the front 7, as opposed to Champ 2.0. Once again, having an elite CB is a luxury, having a front 7 is a necessity to win in this league. I'd rather address necessity. For me, once again, it's a matter of odds, and odds are have a better front 7 if we take a better prospect.

i don't give a flying **** if the qb just goes the other way. that's like saying, 'i'd rather have jarvis moss, because if we had asomugha or revis, the qb would just throw to someone else'. yes, it's that silly.

That's just an attempt to make me look stupid (which you're usually very good at) but it really has nothing to do with what I said.

Seriously though... Jarvis Moss? The biggest bust in Broncos history? At the very least, you could substitute an elite DE in that sentence and still make exact the same point. You may think I'm stupid, I don't know. I'm not Terry Schaivo, though.

Let me *for the final time* reconstruct that sentence for you:
"I'd rather have a solid DE (Jarvis Moss, apparently) because at least that way, we can generate some sort of pressure, whether it be through run defense or pass rush. We both know those two things make it harder for said quarterback to pick apart defenses, defenses that said quarterback would easily be able to pick apart, even with a star corner like Bailey. Sure, we can take a solid DT later, but we can also take a solid corner later. Obviously, PP is dynamic, but I'm convinced Dareus is almost as talented at his respective position.

I agree with you, players like Champ prove it is possible to make a unit look half decent when underneath it all, they suck. However, one more stud DE/DT is one more stud player where we truly need it... If we pull the trigger round 1 as opposed to round 2, we're better off in that sense.

if we want to go DL in the first (and stay 34), we trade down. period.

I'd rather stockpile and get our guy, whoever it may be for sure. But making this finite statement that "we absolutely MUST trade down if were gonna take a DE/DT, when it's only JANUARY, with plenty of room for draftniks for jizz their pants over any prospect, is just plain premature. Especially when Dareus' stock is rising at this point.

there isn't any way any 34 DL has really ever been worth the #2 overall pick.

Okay, well in that case, CB has never been worthy of the #2 overall pick, either. There has been 1 corner in history selected before #3 overall, and that was in 1956.

and especially not one who basically took the season off and has lazy red flags all over the place.

Well, as I've stated countless times, lets give the guy a chance. There's rumor, and there's fact. At this point, we can both admit that we don't know Dareus' character. So let's wait for some dirt to be dug up. I've stated that if the guy is in fact an issue, we should pass on him. If he's not an issue, however, he's not an issue, and that's that. He's just a beast. And we should take him ahead of PP if everything fine and dandy (by the way, comparing Dareus to Haynesworth is no better a comparison than Dareus to Suh, he can stay in a game for 2 plays without needing a breather, for one. Let's keep in mind these character issues are unproven)

if we go to the 43 (which i still think would be stupid, but whatever), then you can start talking about a bowers or fairley having #2 kind of value.

God forbid we go back to the 4-3, I'd actually prefer PP in that situation just because I don't think they are sure fire enough to be building blocks, although my personal jury is still up in the air on that one.

Anyways, I'm not saying you're wrong in your points (except for your claim that PP already presents the best return, despite never having stepped on an NFL field.)

I'm just saying, I'm not wrong either. It's January 7th. It's too early to write people off for character and laziness issues if the ammo isn't sufficient enough for the media to make something of it, because the media will blow up ANYTHING. Champ Bailey is not proof alone that elite CBs are "better overall impact wise" than elite 3-4 DE's. And even if they were, if you draft an elite DE, each legit front 7 guy you draft from that point on magnifies in importance, IMO.

Here are the top 10 defenses. All but one get by without a super elite CB. Most of them have amazing front 7's. Just Sayin'

1. San Diego Chargers
2. Pittsburgh Steelers
3. New York Jets
4. New Orleans Saints
5. Green Bay Packers
6. Miami Dolphins
7. New York Giants
8. Minnesota Vikings
9. Chicago Bears
10. Baltimore Ravens

LonghornsLegend
01-07-2011, 01:00 PM
I've been stopping in here to read the debates and opinions on Dareus from you guys. I think he has a decent chance of falling to #9 if you guys pass him up so I'm really intrigued by him. I didn't know as much about those red flags, but I do know he'd be a monster in the 3-4 at the end spot, ESPECIALLY if you can still provide 2 pass rushers at the end spots.


Dallas is in the same spot, probably looking at both Prince & Dareus.

Jimmy
01-07-2011, 02:00 PM
I've been stopping in here to read the debates and opinions on Dareus from you guys. I think he has a decent chance of falling to #9 if you guys pass him up so I'm really intrigued by him. I didn't know as much about those red flags, but I do know he'd be a monster in the 3-4 at the end spot, ESPECIALLY if you can still provide 2 pass rushers at the end spots.


Dallas is in the same spot, probably looking at both Prince & Dareus.

I'd strongly suggest passing on Prince. If it turns out the red flags are indeed red flags, then he should probably fall past #9 too. Lack of effort is lack of effort, no matter how talented the guy is, if he doesn't give a damn, he's good for nothing. If he is in fact a legitimately clean guy, he won't make it past 5 I don't think, but if he does, you immediately pull the trigger at #9.

The big debate as far as im concerned is whether or not Dareus alone would improve a defense as much as a first rate corner (some people think Prince is that first rate corner, although im clueless as to why) and as I stated before, I think it's hard to that argue a 3-4 DE will make a unit better overall right off the bat, and individually as opposed to a CB. However, (and here's the main reason why I think 3-4 DE is so key) once you start to surround that 3-4 DE with other front 7 pieces, his importance magnifies, and his so called individual importance really starts to come to fruition. He enables the rest of those guys to do their jobs with a MUCH greater amount of ease. Later down the road, if you decide to spend another 1st on another 3-4 DE or DT, or some linebackers, that's when you really see a return on that investment, because the unit as a whole improves exponentially from that 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 4th piece of the front 7. Whereas, you use a pick on a corner, sure. You may get a GREAT return on him, and he may outperform that DE statistically and individually (even though it's really apples and oranges to begin with) but you're not getting that exponential return that I believe exists.

You think that Lions pass defense went from 32nd to 16th because of Chris Houston, Nathan Vasher, Spievey and Delmas? (Delmas is solid, ill give him that) Better yet, you think they went from 29th in the league in sacks to 6th solely because of Suh? Partially, but Avril stepped it up too, and the unit improved exponentially. That's what I'm trying to get at, the more pieces you get in that front 7, the better your individual return is.

You guys best go for Dareus if he's sane and there at #9.

after that, I think you're S.O.L. and can't really afford to draft based on need, because I'm not that sold on quinn, bowers. You'd have to go BPA or trade back and stockpile and go Watt later.

Diehard
01-07-2011, 05:41 PM
A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

All of these have been mentioned by either Elway or Xanders.

Jimmy
01-07-2011, 05:43 PM
A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

And of course the guy we need the most doesn't have permission to interview.

Diehard
01-07-2011, 05:57 PM
And of course the guy we need the most doesn't have permission to interview.

The Chargers can't actually deny the opportunity to interview for a promotion. However, they will definitely drag their heels on this one.

Jimmy
01-07-2011, 06:04 PM
The Chargers can't actually deny the opportunity to interview for a promotion. However, they will definitely drag their heels on this one.

Well in that case, that's great. This would be by far the best hire, IMO. There's a reason they should be dragging their heels, he's well respected, well seasoned, & defensive minded. And we'd retain the 3-4.

Jimmy
01-07-2011, 06:49 PM
PP show in 10 minutes.

jCut
01-07-2011, 09:09 PM
A fair amount of info is coming out now about the potential HC candidates:

Eric Studesville - interview scheduled
Perry Fewell - interview scheduled
Rick Dennison - granted permission to interview
Dick Koetter - granted permission to interview
Ron Rivera - do not yet have permission to interview
Gregg Williams - have to wait until the Saints are done
Mike Mularkey - have to wait until the Falcons are done

All of these have been mentioned by either Elway or Xanders.

A very underwhelming list, in my opinion. Dirk Koetter? Really?

Cunningham
01-07-2011, 11:27 PM
peterson just had a disappointing game. he played poorly against alabama earlier in the year, and i'm pretty sure he played just as poorly in last year's bowl game. i'm not sure if he's poorly coached, or maybe his 220+ lb frame is hampering his performance, but the dude has been beat too many times for how talented he is. i really want to see what he weighs in at at the combine.

Jimmy
01-07-2011, 11:42 PM
peterson just had a disappointing game. he played poorly against alabama earlier in the year, and i'm pretty sure he played just as poorly in last year's bowl game. i'm not sure if he's poorly coached, or maybe his 220+ lb frame is hampering his performance, but the dude has been beat too many times for how talented he is. i really want to see what he weighs in at at the combine.

Check out the PP thread tomorrow. I D.V.R.'d the game and will have a full summary of plays he was in on. First quarter stuff is up, too tired to finish the rest of the game right now.

Quick analysis: He got thrown at 3 times in the 1st Q
1. First completion he game he stood no chance as he was 10 yards off at the snap, and kept that 10 yard buffer once Fuller (his man) started running the fly portion of his comeback. Whether that was something his coaches had him do, or it was a misdiagnosed play read by PP himself is something we will never know as casual viewers.
2. He hit Fuller on the sideline as he tried to reel in the pass. Showed nice strength and effort. Not sure if he was the reason the pass was incomplete, Fuller might have dropped it before Peterson got a body on him. Too lazy to check.
3. Peterson jammed Fuller, bailed, and then almost recovered to swat the comeback but got beat again on a pretty routine play. He will get beat on simple plays like this his rookie year, he's not superman. But he did show nice presence and almost turned it into an incompletion.

The one thing that bothers me is that when he tries to make cuts when he's return, it looks like he's on ice or something. He even puts his hand out, as if to stabilize/balance himself. He's not as quick as he is fast, and that does translate into his coverage.

Cunningham
01-07-2011, 11:51 PM
The one thing that bothers me is that when he tries to make cuts when he's return, it looks like he's on ice or something. He even puts his hand out, as if to stabilize/balance himself. He's not as quick as he is fast, and that does translate into his coverage.
yea, it was pretty obvious tonight on one of his first half returns and i've noticed that it's an issue for him on hook routes and such. i still really like him as a prospect, and you have to remember that the dude is only twenty years old, he has a lot of time yet to become a polished football player.

Diehard
01-07-2011, 11:55 PM
A very underwhelming list, in my opinion. Dirk Koetter? Really?

JAX has quietly put up solid offensive production over the time Koetter has been there. When you consider the very modest talent they've had at QB and WR, being somewhere in the top 10-15 in overall production and top 5 in 3rd down conversions is a pretty decent accomplishment.

Anyway, here's a more flashy addition:

The Broncos’ head coaching candidate list now has a profile name: John Fox.

The team is seeking permission to interview the Carolina Panthers’ head coach, according to an NFL source.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2011/01/07/john-fox-on-broncos-radar/6466/

Chris
01-08-2011, 01:58 AM
They have not been anywhere near the top fifteen or ten in overall production in Koetter's time as OC in Jacksonville outside his first year there when they were sixth in points and seventh in yards respectively.

18, 24 and 24 the past three years in points.

15, 18 and 20 in yards the past three years.

Like I said, completely underwhelming outside his first year there. Do you honestly believe an offensive coordinator who cannot even muster up average offenses deserves a shot at our job?

I think not.

Chris
01-08-2011, 02:46 AM
Broncos are set to interview two head coaching candidates, Greg Williams and Perry Fewell, that use the 43 system. A telling sign of things to come?

Elway had said in his presser that he would like to stick with the 3-4 given the pieces we have in store there already. Seems funny, because I think we have piss on defense as far as talent goes, but over the past few years there have been quite a few moves in that area. I'm not sure switching schemes again is something that the Broncos are interested in doing, if -- and only if they feel that a change to a 4-3 would bring more continuity down the road.

It will be interesting to see. Player evaluations from the position coaches will be a big factor in this, regardless if those guys are not retained.

Denver has perhaps one "elite" player on defense, Bailey -- who might not even be here next year. After that, you have one good player in DJ Williams (and yes, I consider DJ good -- I feel horrible on him having to switch spots multiple times and have a different DC almost every year) and after that there isn't much.

Dawkins play clearly slipped this year and the only way I see us picking up his option is for leadership capabilities and to help the younger players (and potential draft pick) at the selection groom in for the future. The Denver Post and news outlets like to sensationalize things regarding Dawkins saying, "They lost all the games he has not played in." -- but the more important aspect of it all is how well does he play in the games he is in? This year, clearly not well at all.

Hill was average all season long, but we probably have to keep him because Bruton is not a starter and McBath can never stay healthy.

Goodman is extremely inconsistent and not dependable. I think Perrish Cox is likely to be a starter for this team next year, especially if Bailey goes -- that is, if he isn't in jail. I'm encourage with Thompson in a furthered nickel role and Vaughn being delegated duties in dime packages. If Bailey goes, this could all change. Corner is highly ambiguous for us.

Everybody knows the defensive line is an absolute joke. Kevin Vickerson was our best performer this year and he was a rotational player. Williams and Bannan were underwhelming, but Bannan is just a solid pro. Williams is clearly past his prime. Every position on that line needs upgrading, whether it is NT or the 5T.

Linebacker is also iffy. As I said, we have Williams and that is about it. I have hopes for Ayers, who was playing pretty well before his injury. Cross our fingers he can put it together next year. Who knows how well Dumervil will recover from his injury? Regardless if it is good, we need another quality pass-rusher. Mario Haggan did surprisingly well this year, but isn't a long-term answer to any position. He is versatile though.

Jason Hunter, whatever. He can be upgraded. Woodyard only deserves a roster spot because of ST play. Mays can be a nice two-down thumper for us (GO BISON!) -- but we could upgrade over him too.

In short, our defense is poop. To me, it really doesn't matter what scheme we go to because we have crap there regardless and it will take multiple drafts to fix. It will be absolutely depressing if Champ doesn't stay here.

I agree that DL needs to be the forefront priority, but if Bailey goes -- a guy like Peterson has to be considered. I cannot advocate Fairley at #2 when he isn't a good fit for a 5T in our defense. If we switched, perhaps. I like Dareus a lot, and I would not be against him at #2 if we "had to" because he has proven effective at the 5T, even while hurt this year.

In all honesty, I would prefer a trade down to accumulate more picks. It would be in our best interest.

Despite Peterson's showing tonight in the bowl game, he is still a tremendous prospect, but his talents would almost be useless if we can't get a line to help him. We would still have three other early picks to give him that help though.

Who knows.

Jimmy
01-08-2011, 08:31 AM
It will be absolutely depressing if Champ doesn't stay here.

At what price do you keep him around though? He'll be 33 next year, and he's gonna demand at least 4 years, and he's going to want to stay payed as a top 5 corner. That's a huge investment to make in a player.

It's almost like were in a famine, and the only grocery store for miles is charging $100 for a loaf of bread that is just starting to go stale. Shouldn't we just try to grow our own food?

Jimmy
01-08-2011, 01:11 PM
Well this... sucks...
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17028788

Jimmy
01-08-2011, 01:17 PM
meh. it was bound to happen sooner or later. dude couldn't ever stay on the field.

So... do we kick out beadles and draft a bunch of interior linemen? Or do we draft an interior lineman and a tackle? Or do we address this in free agency?

Diehard
01-08-2011, 01:19 PM
Like I said, completely underwhelming outside his first year there. Do you honestly believe an offensive coordinator who cannot even muster up average offenses deserves a shot at our job?

I think not.

I'm not saying he should be the hire, but IMO he's worth interviewing. He's been known as a very strong X's and O's guy since his college days. He's not stuck on a particular scheme (e.g. ASU aired it out), which is somewhat appealing considering he'd be coming in to a situation where the need on the defensive side of things is going to make it very difficult to justify bringing in a lot of new guys on offense.

The downside is that I think he'd need to be willing to bring in a strong, veteran DC and delegate considerable authority to him. If his ego could handle that, it might work.

Chris
01-08-2011, 01:46 PM
(A) Price doesn't really matter for me. It is Champ Bailey. I have even read rumors (ESPN from another forum) that he would be interested in moving to safety to prolong his career. I don't worry about salary like a lot of people do. The money is there to sign him and others. There are ways to construct a contract that would alleviate any hit we would have to take if he ended up not doing well.

(B) Sucks to see Harris go, but his play was off and on and he has had injury problems in his four years with the Broncos. I would continue to grow Beadles at LG and draft a RT. Or, we could draft a player capable of playing either spot, giving us versatility. There are a lot of second to third round starting tackles in this draft, I think we would have our choice of any of them with our three picks after #2. I'll wait until our coaches are hired and see if we switch back to the ZBS (a guarantee if Dennison is or choice) before I come up with any players in mind.

(C) Pass on Koetter at all costs.

Jimmy
01-08-2011, 01:50 PM
Full PP vs. Jeff Fuller analysis is finally up in the PP thread. Really not a whole lot you can take from it, seeing that Fuller ran 1 route on him the whole game.

Timbathia
01-08-2011, 03:09 PM
(B) Sucks to see Harris go, but his play was off and on and he has had injury problems in his four years with the Broncos. I would continue to grow Beadles at LG and draft a RT. Or, we could draft a player capable of playing either spot, giving us versatility. There are a lot of second to third round starting tackles in this draft, I think we would have our choice of any of them with our three picks after #2. I'll wait until our coaches are hired and see if we switch back to the ZBS (a guarantee if Dennison is or choice) before I come up with any players in mind.


The annoying thing though is that we will have to blow a pick in the first three rounds on a tackle now, unless we get one in FA. We have so many holes that we need this draft to fill, that losing a reasonable starter to FA just makes the rebuilding process all that much harder.

Diehard
01-08-2011, 03:36 PM
It is annoying, but honestly, Harris' constant injury problems were pretty annoying as well.

I'd rather have someone who can play a full season so we can finally get the OL to gel.

I think Doug Free is someone to look at in FA if we go back to a ZBS. Dallas was a wierd fit for him in the first place.

Chris
01-08-2011, 04:26 PM
Prior to Harris departure, I had offensive line pegged as one of our selections in our top four because we lack serious quality depth there and I believe that they need a serious challenge based on their play this year. Eric Olsen, whom could be a good reserve, was inactive every game this year, matching the Trevor Pryce rookie record. Inconsistency was all over the line.

I like the Doug Free option at tackle in FA. I also like getting a TE in FA as well. Those should be relatively cheap options, since they aren't top performers. Bo Scaife (from Denver) might be a logical pick-up in that regard if we miss out on a high profile name. I'm not really aware of the other names on the OL who could press for starting time.

Right now, with four selections this is how I see it shaking out:

OL, DL (2) and whatever quality player is there. I think it is safe to say we do not need another receiver -- that position seems to be one of talent and strength for us. LB/S I'm all for, that would probably be the bigger priority over anything else since we need talent on defense. Even a dynamic running back if that is at all possible. Just depends on what we do in free agency. However, I like Elway stating he wants to build through the draft.

I'm confident we will be able to add another early round selection to our mix and that would help. At any case, like I said earlier, this rebuild for the team is going to take more than one off-season. Hopefully free agency happens on time and we can get one or two players that fit needs that can help us be more focused in our draft needs.

If I'm correct, we have 1, 2A, 2B, 3 and sixth rounders from New England and Detroit. (Maroney and Smith trades)

Our original six is with Cleveland for Quinn. Our seventh got flipped to Detroit and we got their sixth and Gronkowski. Our fourth is to New England and we got their sixth. No fifth rounder because that goes to Tampa Bay to acquire the two sevenths we spent on Thompson and Kirlew.

Simply not enough at this point in time. I hope we trade down from #2.

DBNYDP
01-08-2011, 04:30 PM
Meh, I think Harris has been playing a lot better, I would try to make some attempt to keep him.
Beadles need to stay on the inside, he isn't very good on the outside, and isn't fast enough to be the blindside tackle.
I think we should resign Bailey, I mean he is a talented guy and is absolutely dynamite while playing zone. So as a FS he would be pretty good I think.
Also I don't think he is done at corner yet so we can still use him there for a bit.

DBNYDP
01-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Trade Orton for a 3rd.

1st Round: Nick Fairley DT Auburn
2nd Round: Adrian Clayborne DE Iowa
2nd Round: Greg Jones LB Michigan State
3rd Round: Jabal Sheards DE Pittsburgh
3rd Round: Davon House CB New Mexico
6th Round: Coby Fleener TE Stanford
7th Round: Charles Clay FB Tulsa

Free Agency:
Re-Sign Champ
Sign Barry Coffiel
Sigh Eric Weddle
Resign Ryan Harris
Let Dawkins retire

Team:
QB: Tim Tebow/Brady Quinn
HB: Knowshown Moreno/Lance Ball/Lendale White
FB: Charles Clay/Spencer Larsen
WR: Brandon Lloyd/DeMaryious Thomas/Eddie Royal/Jabar Gaffney/Eric Decker/Mathew Willis/Britt Davis
TE: Daniel Graham/Coby Fleener/Richard Quinn
OT: Ryan Clady/Ryan Harris/Chris Clark
G: Chris Kuper/Zane Beadles/Eric Olsen/Stanley Daniels
C: J.D Walton/Jeff Byers

DT: Nick Fairley/Barry Coffiel/Marcus Thomas/Justin Bannan/Kevin Vickerson
DE: Elvis Dumervil/Robert Ayers/Adrian Clayborne/Jabal Sheards
OLB: D.J Williams/Greg Jones/Wesley Woodyard/David Veikune
MLB: Joe Mays
S: Eric Weddle/David Bruton/Darcel McBath/Kyle McCarthy
CB: Champ Bailey/Andre Goodman/Perrish Cox/Davon House/Syndquan Thompson
K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Collquit
LS: Lonnie Paxton

Overall, I think this would cover the pressing offensive needs (Pass Catching TE/FB), while making our defensive considerably better.

Comments?

Diehard
01-09-2011, 09:21 PM
Comments?

If we are shifting to a 4-man front (which is what your post seems to indicate), it weakens the argument for going big on DL. IMO, both Ayers and Hunter would do better with their hands down in a 4-3. We'd still want a significant interior presence, so a DT in round 1 would remain the most likely situation, and I could see us picking up another body in the mid rounds.

I certainly don't mind a lot of the moves you're proposing, but some are borderline wishful thinking (e.g. Harris staying). I'm not sure about the safety group - some decent potential, but would have lots to prove.

DBNYDP
01-09-2011, 10:43 PM
If we are shifting to a 4-man front (which is what your post seems to indicate), it weakens the argument for going big on DL. IMO, both Ayers and Hunter would do better with their hands down in a 4-3. We'd still want a significant interior presence, so a DT in round 1 would remain the most likely situation, and I could see us picking up another body in the mid rounds.

I certainly don't mind a lot of the moves you're proposing, but some are borderline wishful thinking (e.g. Harris staying). I'm not sure about the safety group - some decent potential, but would have lots to prove.
I just wanted to make sure that we would have a fallback option in case if Doom just flopped as a 4-3 end. I think Ayers will be great in a 4-3, but like I said, insurance policy.
I can't say I've seen Jason Hunter play too much as a 4-3 end.
Originally I had Nevis with our first second.
Any suggestions?
I was thinking signing Doug Free would be our best option if Harris leaves, but personally I would franchise Harris and just see what happens with him.

Cunningham
01-10-2011, 03:29 PM
well, it looks like the list of head coaching candidates comes down to this:
eric studesville
perry fewell
dirk koetter
rick dennison
gregg williams
mike mularkey
john fox

it's definitely an uninspiring group, although i wouldn't mind if we end up going with fewell. i think it's fair to say that the team's future is looking bleak at this point.

Diehard
01-10-2011, 09:17 PM
it's definitely an uninspiring group, although i wouldn't mind if we end up going with fewell. i think it's fair to say that the team's future is looking bleak at this point.

Nothing like some good ole doomsaying....

Seriously, though, was there a "sexy" hire out there? Gruden or Cowher look like they aren't in play at all, the interim guys in Dallas and Minny got promoted and Rivera's had a number shots at the big chair in various places and for whatever reason hasn't made the cut.

Cunningham
01-10-2011, 09:36 PM
Nothing like some good ole doomsaying....

Seriously, though, was there a "sexy" hire out there? Gruden or Cowher look like they aren't in play at all, the interim guys in Dallas and Minny got promoted and Rivera's had a number shots at the big chair in various places and for whatever reason hasn't made the cut.
i'm just saying that with the inexperience of elway/xanders, coupled with the ****** group of players we have right now, it wouldn't be surprising if we really struggle as an organization for the next however many years

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-10-2011, 09:53 PM
On a more positive note, Fairley looks amazing tonight. I'd be happy with either one of him or PP.

DBNYDP
01-11-2011, 01:03 AM
Another plan...3-4 this time
The Denver Broncos trade Kyle Orton to Arizona for the 69th pick
The Denver Broncos trades #2 of the NFL draft to the Dallas Cowboys in exchange for #9, #41, #73, and a future 2nd

#9: Marcel Dareus DE Alabama
#36: Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame
#40: Phil Taylor NT Baylor
#46: Jerrell Powe DE Ole Miss
#67: Kelvin Shepherd ILB LSU
#69: Johnny Patrick CB Louisville
#192: Shaun Chapas FB Georgia
#194: Andrew Fleener TE Stanford

Resign Champ Bailey
Resign Ryan Harris
Sign Paul Soliai
Sign Paul Posluszny
Sign Eric Weddle

QB: Tim Tebow/Brady Quinn
RB: Knowshown Moreno/Lance Ball/Lendale White
FB: Shaun Chapas/Spencer Larsen
WR: Brandon Lloyd/Jabar Gaffney/DeMaryious Thomas//Eddie Royal/Eric Decker/Britt Davis or Matthew Willis
TE: Kyle Rudolph/Andrew Fleener/Richard Quinn
RT: Ryan Harris
RG: Chris Kuper/Stanley Daniels
C: J.D Walton/Jeff Byers
LG: Zane Beadles/Eric Olsen
LT: Ryan Clady/Chris Clark

RDE: Marcus Thomas/Marcel Dareus
NT: Paul Soliai/Phil Taylor/Jamal Williams
LDE: Justin Bannan/Kevin Vickerson/Jerrell Powe
ROLB: Elvis Dumervil/Wesley Woodyard
RILB: D.J Williams/Paul Posluszny
LILB: Joe Mays/Kelvin Shepherd
LOLB: Robert Ayers/Mario Haggan
CB: Champ Bailey/Johnny Patrick
CB: Andre Goodman/Perrish Cox
NCB: Syd'Quan Thompson/Cassius Vaughn
FS: Eric Weddle/Darcel McBath
SS: David Bruton/Kyle McCarthy

K: Matt Prater
P: Britton Colquitt
LS: Lonnie Paxton

jCut
01-11-2011, 05:23 PM
i don't care what else happens, kyle rudolph is a horrible pick. not quite on the clarett level, but certainly on the quinn level.

I wouldn't go that far. At least Rudolph can play. I don't think most people even knew who Quinn was. And still don't.

Timbathia
01-11-2011, 06:37 PM
I wouldn't go that far. At least Rudolph can play. I don't think most people even knew who Quinn was. And still don't.

I guess TE and OL are both offensive positions that need help (whether Harris leaves or not) and drafting someone of good value wouldnt upset me (no more Beadles-type reaches please). Nowhere near as big a need as everywhere on the defense though.

Timbathia
01-11-2011, 07:11 PM
we have no business drafting yet another TE who will have an extremely limited role in the offense, when nearly every other position on the team could just use warm bodies. we might as well draft devlin in the second. i mean, we need a second string qb, right?

This is the unknown of course, as we really dont know what kind of an offense we will run next year.

If I were running an offense with Tebow at the helm, then a quality TE (who can hold his ground, block downfield, act as a reliable safety valve, catch screen passes and catch downfield) would figure very highly on my list of needs.

jCut
01-11-2011, 08:01 PM
I think we could definitely use a TE, as Graham is just an overpaid swing tackle and Quinn / Gronkowski are garbage. But, with the amount of holes on our defense, I will not advocate taking one with a high draft pick.

DBNYDP
01-11-2011, 11:44 PM
Our offense needs to be more efficient, having an every-down TE helps. If Tebow is going to be the future of this team, drafting an every-down TE helps. Graham is not very good, and is overpaid, should be cut. Grownkowski has done ****. Quinn is strictly a blocker.
The defense gets improved in the draft by bringing a lot of youth and talent on the team. I don't like think any other player in the draft would be available at that position that would have a better impact than Rudolph.
Overpaying for a TE like Marcedes Lewis or Owen Daniels this offseason isn't smart. We can't fill every hole on defense this year, that is just a stupid sentiment. A lot of the positions aren't very deep in this draft, and we should just be patient for next year.
This team is a middle of the pack offense as well..so really..it does need help (not as much as the defense, and as you can see I mostly devote the draft to defense, and the FA to defense)

DBNYDP
01-11-2011, 11:57 PM
I don't get what the problem is.
I get two defensive ends, and a NT in this draft.
Draft a CB who I really like. Draft an ILB who can hit/lead.
Sign a proven NT.
Sign a good linebacker.
And a pretty good free safety.

I think we do a pretty good job on improving the defense in the draft. 3-4 ends in the 1st aren't always a waste, some have been huge beasts ala Haloti Ngata
Brady Quinn is one of the better backup QBs, then grab a guy as an UDFA to come and be #3...I don't put backup QB on the same level as a starting TE who has the potential to be a Pro Bowler...

Timbathia
01-12-2011, 04:08 AM
I don't get what the problem is.
I get two defensive ends, and a NT in this draft.
Draft a CB who I really like. Draft an ILB who can hit/lead.
Sign a proven NT.
Sign a good linebacker.
And a pretty good free safety.

I think we do a pretty good job on improving the defense in the draft. 3-4 ends in the 1st aren't always a waste, some have been huge beasts ala Haloti Ngata
Brady Quinn is one of the better backup QBs, then grab a guy as an UDFA to come and be #3...I don't put backup QB on the same level as a starting TE who has the potential to be a Pro Bowler...

I think possibly another problem we may have this year is signing free agents. I mean, who the **** is going to want to come and play for us this season?

Diehard
01-12-2011, 05:49 PM
It looks to me like it is down to Rick Dennison, Dirk Koetter and John Fox. I'd have to think Fox is the favorite, given his coaching experience... but it sounds like the other two both impressed during the interviews.

As for TE, I like Lance Kendricks from Wisconsin if he falls to the middle rounds. The guy can block and catch.

DBNYDP
01-12-2011, 05:54 PM
Rudolph is pretty good blocker, and he is a good receiver...
Jason Witten type player.

Ngata was a high pick, not exactly top 10 but it was pretty close..Dareus is a really great player, I have no clue why you are so down on him. His experience/talent makes him a very valuable player, most drafts have him going around there.
Our line this year was totally out of sync, with several different starting combinations. Once the line was more or less set, the running game improved as evidence by Moreno's success (averaging 5 YAC the last 5 games of the year?
Beadles/Kuper/Walton are fine on the interior, and Beadles/Walton are going to continue to get better. The linemen in this draft are very unimpressive, and I wouldn't jump to take any of them. Soliai is a solid player, I say sign him to a shorter term deal so he is more of a stop gap till Phil Taylor becomes the starter.

jCut
01-12-2011, 07:11 PM
I think we need to bring in a respected defensive mind. I'm hoping for John Fox!

DBNYDP
01-12-2011, 10:11 PM
beadles will kick out to RT (i sincerely hope i'm wrong. if he doesn't, we need a RT), kuper is garbage and has been for a while. soliai has had one decent year and has been on the verge of getting cut every other year he's been in the nfl. and moreno sure looked good against houston. and oakland.
Beadles would be terrible at RT, he will get abused by speed rusher. Kuper is fine, he was one of the best performers on our line this year. I think Harris comes back, if not I'll take Free, Clabo or the guy for NO.
I'm not saying overpay Soliai, but I think we can get him at a reasonable price in a short term contract. If not we only need a guy to rotate with Jamal and keep him fresh. Worst comes to worst, Powe can rotate into the NT position too..
Moreno looked great against the Chiefs. The running game has looked fine when people have been healthy (sadly that is the biggest problem..)

Daniel Graham has cost this team. He has had some costly drops where the pass has been fine and he has just dropped it. He has been slow, and has had trouble getting down and blocking. And even when he is there to make the block, he isn't amazing anymore. I like Quinn's blocking enough to make him our blocking TE, he is better than Graham at this point. Rudolph adds an every down TE, who is still a great blocker.
I'd consider taking a safety/CB/OLB at Rudolph's position, and I'm not sure we get the best value there (CB isn't a huge position of need in my opinion). I don't like any linemen enough to take them there, the whole class is just terrible in that area.

Jimmy
01-13-2011, 03:00 PM
Fox is our guy.

bigbluedefense
01-13-2011, 03:06 PM
i'm not really all that excited. although i'm not quite as nervous as i was two years ago.

As a Giants fan who has been a Fox supporter for a long long time, I'm jealous. Fox is a great HC, you guys got one hell of a coach.

I was hoping he'd be the heir to Coughlin, but now that's no longer an option.

bigbluedefense
01-13-2011, 03:24 PM
why is that? i don't know much about him other than that he's had really, really sporadic success in carolina.

He was an incredible DC for the Giants. Our Spagnuolo of the late 90s. He's also done an incredible job with that Panther organization. Let's be real, while he had ok talent there, the talent on those Panthers teams never stood out on paper. He squeezed every drop he could out of those teams.

That 08 team that was the 2 seed? Come on. They rode a run game, Steve Smith, and a middle tier defense all the way to the 2 seed.

The reason why he was inconsistent is bc in this league, talent lends to consistency. You can be a flash in the pan, win more than you should and overachieve every other year with good coaching, but if you want consistent success, you need talent. And a good qb. And the Panthers in my opinion, were mediocre in both those areas.

Fox is widely respected amongst league circles. NFL guys know the real deal. They know far more than we know. For Fox to have the type of respect he has amongst organizations says a lot about what kind of football coach he is.

You guys have one hell of a coach. Congrats. I'd be lying to you if I said I wasn't jealous.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Even if his success continues to be sporadic, I'd much rather have sporadic success than constant failure. So he's a definite upgrade over McD.

Diehard
01-13-2011, 06:01 PM
Fox is our guy.

Doesn't surprise me at all and it's a good move for the team.

Apparently, he's been rounding up his coaching staff today. Sounds like Jim Mora Jr. is the leader for the DC spot and we may end up retaining McCoy.

jCut
01-13-2011, 06:33 PM
Great news. I'm relieved that Dennison didn't get the job solely on his "roots" here in Denver. Retaining McCoy makes me a bit nervous, though. But I think this takes the speculation out of which defensive system we will run, as Fox has always used the 43. Quite successfully I might add. I have to admit, I am very excited for the future now.

Cunningham
01-13-2011, 07:20 PM
yea, this is definitely good news. anyone have info on his contract numbers?

DBNYDP
01-13-2011, 09:57 PM
I don't know.
Fox said that he is willing to use the 3-4 in Denver.
Just saying.
I wonder who is the offensive coordinator now, and I really hope we don't get DeAngelo Williams.

Timbathia
01-13-2011, 10:01 PM
I don't know.
Fox said that he is willing to use the 3-4 in Denver.
Just saying.
I wonder who is the offensive coordinator now, and I really hope we don't get DeAngelo Williams.

While he may have said he was willing, he is now officially the most knowledgeable defensive mind in the Broncos organization (and by a long way). If Elway, etc. are smart they will let Fox do whatever the heck he wants on that side of the ball, no matter what their preferences are.

jCut
01-14-2011, 01:21 AM
I like DeAngelo, but there are legitimate questions about his durability. We would probably have to give up a high draft pick, and he's just not worth it.

Diehard
01-14-2011, 12:41 PM
why would we give up any draft pick? i was pretty sure he was udfa at the end of the season.

The talk I've heard from some Panthers fans is that they'll franchise and then try to trade him. There are a number of problems with that:

1. The CBA chaos may make that impossible
2. Trading a player who is not under contract is a lot trickier, due to the negotiation of a new contract as part of the trade
3. Carolina's ownership is very stingy... I don't see them wanting to be stuck with paying out the franchise tag $$$ if a trade can't be worked out

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Williams isn't really a "complementary" back to Knowshon, but he's a good player and the extra firepower wouldn't hurt.

Jimmy
01-14-2011, 06:36 PM
and I really hope we don't get DeAngelo Williams.

Deangelo Williams is a 1,400+ yard back when healthy. There. I said it.

I'm all for hauling the dude in. 2 times the player slowshon is.

diabsoule
01-14-2011, 06:45 PM
Do you guys think there is a possibility that Robert Quinn could be the pick at #2? He seems to fit a position of need and can project to a 3-4 or 4-3.

jCut
01-14-2011, 07:06 PM
Do you guys think there is a possibility that Robert Quinn could be the pick at #2? He seems to fit a position of need and can project to a 3-4 or 4-3.

I think he would have to blow up the combine for us to take him that high. But, I think it is possible. He might be the best pass-rusher in the draft, which says a lot.

DBNYDP
01-15-2011, 02:10 AM
why? he'd be far better than anything we have.
He is about to fall apart.
Plus money..

He's been a workhorse and he has absolutely been run down.

crossroads
01-15-2011, 08:44 AM
He is about to fall apart.
Plus money..

He's been a workhorse and he has absolutely been run down.

A workhorse? He's only had more than 250 carries once, and only over 200 carries in a season twice. He's only had 841 carries in 5 seasons. He's been far from run down.

DBNYDP
01-15-2011, 12:20 PM
A workhorse? He's only had more than 250 carries once, and only over 200 carries in a season twice. He's only had 841 carries in 5 seasons. He's been far from run down.
969 carries in college as well.
He's reaching the age when most running backs break down. Add in the fact that we are going to have to pay him a good deal to come...
I rather get a cheaper/younger guy in FA or the draft.

DBNYDP
01-16-2011, 01:41 PM
He'll cost too much. Hightower will be cheaper.
McDermott is the new DC prob.

Timbathia
01-16-2011, 04:24 PM
i'm guessing this makes bowers the pick and pretty well eliminates the peterson/dareus argument.

I think I at the point now where I would be happy with Fairley or Bowers. This is still a bad year to get the second pick, but I think these are the two guys most worth taking a punt on based on where we are. Everyone else would be a bad idea in my mind.

Cunningham
01-16-2011, 06:57 PM
I think I at the point now where I would be happy with Fairley or Bowers. This is still a bad year to get the second pick, but I think these are the two guys most worth taking a punt on based on where we are. Everyone else would be a bad idea in my mind.
agreed with taking fairley or bowers, but i think this is far from a bad year to have the second overall pick. imagine if we were in the same situation, except replace this year's class with the class of '09. that would defnitely be a no-win situation.

Cunningham
01-16-2011, 07:00 PM
i'm still on peterson. i think he's clearly the BPA in the draft, and when you need talent at every position on defense....

that said, if we shift to a 43 look, i'm ok with bowers or fairley. i don't like either in a 34 look.
i think it's pretty much a given that we'll switch to a 43, considering fox's background and our reported interest in mora and mcdermott

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-16-2011, 07:02 PM
I'd be happy with either PP or Fairley. Disappointed with anyone else. Also I don't mind the move to the 4-3 much at all. If you look at our front 7, it's probly gonna benefit both DJ Williams and Robert Ayers. It's gonna hurt Doom, but only slightly, as he's proven he can get the sacks any way he wants. Yeah he'll suffer in run support, but as of now, so will our entire D so whatever.

Diehard
01-17-2011, 01:47 PM
all reports i've seen indicate that we'll stick with a 34 flavor, but that it'll be more of a hybrid (doom will have his hand in the dirt at times).

We kept Nunnelly as DL coach, which is a signal that the 3-4 will still be in effect to some degree. Other coaching appointments:

OC - Mike McCoy
OL - Dave Magazu
TE - Clancy Barone
RB - Eric Studesville
WR - Tyke Tolbert
Off Quality Control - Brian Callahan

DL - Wayne Nunnelly
Def Quality Control - Jay Rodgers

Jim Skipper (RB, Running game coordinator in Carolina) is rumored to be coming (maybe AHC?) and from what I've heard it sounds like Adam Gase will move from WR's to QB coach. Both would be good moves.

DC looks to be either McDermott from Philly or Mora Jr. Either one is significantly more legit than Wink.

crossroads
01-17-2011, 02:45 PM
I really don't like McDermott, but I imagine he'd be running John Fox's schemes and not his own, so it might not be too bad. Also it should be noted that Magazu is a zone blocking guy, so it looks like we'll be a zone blocking team again.

Diehard
01-17-2011, 03:21 PM
I really don't like McDermott, but I imagine he'd be running John Fox's schemes and not his own, so it might not be too bad.

No question that Fox will strongly influence the D, which would probably be good for a young guy like McDermott. We'll see how it plays out.

Also it should be noted that Magazu is a zone blocking guy, so it looks like we'll be a zone blocking team again.

Carolina has run a mix of things the last few years. However, I believe Fox mentioned the return of a strong zone approach during one of his media sessions. I think that's a good thing. Not so much zone running, but the focus on doing a few things well. Commit to a certain approach. Repetition helps execution. This was an area of weakness under McD. Hopefully that will change.

Cunningham
01-17-2011, 03:24 PM
sorry for being out of the loop on this, but does anyone know how free agency will work with the current cba issues? will there be any signings before a new one is worked out?

Timbathia
01-17-2011, 04:10 PM
I really don't like McDermott, but I imagine he'd be running John Fox's schemes and not his own, so it might not be too bad. Also it should be noted that Magazu is a zone blocking guy, so it looks like we'll be a zone blocking team again.

McDermott gone to Carolina.

jCut
01-17-2011, 10:37 PM
Denver Post is reporting that Jim Mora will likely be named the new DC.

Diehard
01-18-2011, 02:38 AM
sorry for being out of the loop on this, but does anyone know how free agency will work with the current cba issues? will there be any signings before a new one is worked out?

My understanding (which may be flawed) is that there is basically no trading of players or unrestricted FA until a new CBA is in place.

D-Unit
01-18-2011, 07:48 PM
What do you guys think of Amakumara?

Morton
01-19-2011, 01:15 PM
But Amukamara has been nothing but a shutdown corner for Nebraska this year. How can you not be impressed by him?

Timbathia
01-23-2011, 08:56 PM
it may be a long time before we get a DC if we wait around to talk to Trgovac.

crossroads
01-23-2011, 09:00 PM
it may be a long time before we get a DC if we wait around to talk to Trgovac.

Can't they talk to coaches on the superbowl teams during the bye week this week?

Timbathia
01-23-2011, 09:09 PM
Can't they talk to coaches on the superbowl teams during the bye week this week?

Not completely sure of the rules, but I definitely read on espn that we have to wait until the Packers season is over.

Diehard
01-24-2011, 01:04 PM
Can't they talk to coaches on the superbowl teams during the bye week this week?

They can interview during that bye week, but couldn't finalize anything until the season is over.

Diehard
01-24-2011, 01:34 PM
don't they still need the team's permission? which, i'd imagine, isn't real easy to get.

Yes, you'd need to get permission first.

Diehard
01-24-2011, 01:38 PM
After further research, I may be wrong. Those rules may only apply to filling HC vacancies.


As there is an urgency to hire new head coaches for some non-playoff teams, the NFL does allow teams to request permission to interview a postseason participant's assistants during the wild card week for teams who have the bye that week. They can also request permission to do so during the first week of Super Bowl preparations as long as there is a two-week break between the conference championships and the Super Bowl. The team only has one chance to talk to the assistant coach, once permission is granted, before the coach's team is eliminated from the playoffs.


If it is only HC's, then we'll have to wait until after the Superbowl.

Cunningham
01-24-2011, 01:38 PM
i'm keeping an eye on greg jones this week during the senior bowl. definitely seems like a potential pick for us in round 2.

VoiceofReason
01-26-2011, 11:00 PM
dennis allen was named defensive coordinator on monday.. thoughts?

he was previously on the saints as the secondary coach, not to mention the saints were 4th in pass d. and tuesday ron milus (secondary) and richard smith (linebackers) were also signed onto the staff.

i wonder what this means for the whole 43/34 scheme?

jCut
01-27-2011, 02:43 AM
i said this in the other thread, but it means i want peterson even more now.

With all of the front-seven talent on the board, why go corner?

Diehard
01-27-2011, 12:36 PM
i wonder what this means for the whole 43/34 scheme?

My guess: we'll run 4 man fronts (vs run/pass) and some 3-3-5 looks (mainly vs pass). Even though the 3-3-5 has 3 DL, it doesn't require the same kind of skillset as the rare-and-mysterious 3-4 NT. A 4-3 DT who can get some push on the pocket would be just fine.

To make this work, I suspect we'll be looking for some DB's who can tackle and DL who can rush the passer.

Timbathia
01-27-2011, 04:11 PM
My guess: we'll run 4 man fronts (vs run/pass) and some 3-3-5 looks (mainly vs pass). Even though the 3-3-5 has 3 DL, it doesn't require the same kind of skillset as the rare-and-mysterious 3-4 NT. A 4-3 DT who can get some push on the pocket would be just fine.

To make this work, I suspect we'll be looking for some DB's who can tackle and DL who can rush the passer.

Gee it would be nice to have someone who could rush the passer besides Doom.

Trivia question - who is the only Bronco (besides Doom) to have more than 5.5 sacks in a season since 2004 (when Reggie Hayward had 10.5)?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-27-2011, 04:51 PM
Gee it would be nice to have someone who could rush the passer besides Doom.

Trivia question - who is the only Bronco (besides Doom) to have more than 5.5 sacks in a season since 2004 (when Reggie Hayward had 10.5)?

Bertrand Berry?

Timbathia
01-27-2011, 04:54 PM
Bertrand Berry?

No, his 11.5 sacks in 2003 earned him a ticket straight out of Denver.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-27-2011, 05:08 PM
No, his 11.5 sacks in 2003 earned him a ticket straight out of Denver.

Dang. I knew he was around there, missed him by a year I guess.

It couldn't be that you just read the career total by mistake instead of a season and you mean Jarvis Moss, right? No, because he has 3.5. Wow. Just realized how unbelievably pathetic that is. I'm stumped. Trevor Pryce? Just checked and nope. Damn.

Chris
01-27-2011, 06:24 PM
(A) Bowers wouldn't be playing behind Ayers if he was selected at #2 overall. I'm sort of baffled by comments like this. What has Ayers ever proved for this team on the field so far? Do you think when the staff is evaluating the players, he is listed as an irreplaceable starter? Get real.

(B) Dareus might not be worth it at #2, but if we needed a tackle on the inside, he fills the void. He played through the whole year with an injury and did quite well, and when he was healthy again he dominated.

(C) Xanders has already said we are going to take the BPA at a position of need. My guess is that it is going to be a front seven player. I would be absolutely fine with Peterson, but if Fairley goes #1, Denver is probably going to do their best to trade down or select one of the higher rated DL playrs before the run on top tier DL starts.

Timbathia
01-27-2011, 06:42 PM
Dang. I knew he was around there, missed him by a year I guess.

It couldn't be that you just read the career total by mistake instead of a season and you mean Jarvis Moss, right? No, because he has 3.5. Wow. Just realized how unbelievably pathetic that is. I'm stumped. Trevor Pryce? Just checked and nope. Damn.

Actually the career totals would be interesting over that period (and by interesting I mean pathetic). The guy I am asking about may actually have the second highest number of sacks by a Bronco over the past 7 years.

It really highlights how pathetic we have been at rushing the passer for the past 7 years. Everyone in the other forums keeps spouting off about how Doom will be no good to us when we go back to the 4-3, but truth be told when playing in a 4-3 he is light years ahead of anyone else we have had since the days of Pryce and Berry.

Chris
01-27-2011, 07:22 PM
Elvis was able to produce with nobody around him in a 4-3. He probably won't do as well as he did in the 3-4, but whatever.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-27-2011, 07:26 PM
Actually the career totals would be interesting over that period (and by interesting I mean pathetic). The guy I am asking about may actually have the second highest number of sacks by a Bronco over the past 7 years.

It really highlights how pathetic we have been at rushing the passer for the past 7 years. Everyone in the other forums keeps spouting off about how Doom will be no good to us when we go back to the 4-3, but truth be told when playing in a 4-3 he is light years ahead of anyone else we have had since the days of Pryce and Berry.

Ebenezer Ekuban!

Timbathia
01-27-2011, 07:27 PM
Elvis was able to produce with nobody around him in a 4-3. He probably won't do as well as he did in the 3-4, but whatever.

17 sacks is pretty much out of the question, but 10 to 12 is certainly realistic.

Timbathia
01-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Ebenezer Ekuban!

Nice! Who would have thought a Brownco would be our second best pass rusher over the past 7 years.

Timbathia
01-27-2011, 08:16 PM
the alternate answer was kenard lang, fwiw.



ayers was a 43 end when he came out, it was only due to mcdaniels idiocy that he had to play out of position. given that he was relatively highly rated, i have to imagine they want to give him a chance.

to be fair, this is partially based on my being unimpressed with bowers. at 6-10? i think he'd be a good pick. i'd think the same about dareus. but pretty much every DL this year just screams massive bust to me. fairley is an idiot on the field, as disruptive as he is. i think dareus is lazy. meh.

i think, in all likelihood, i'm completely wrong when it comes to draft day. but all of those players make me really nervous at 2.

Good call - forgot about Lang. I suppose it doesnt change the basic premise in that we are ******* hopeless at sacking people.

As long as we can get a legit DLine starter at the start of the second, I have no issue with Peterson at #2. Add in a legit LB starter with the Dolphins pick in the mid second, and we are in much better shape. I suppose the main unknown is how aggressive Fox will be in FA, as that could shape the draft more than anything.

DBNYDP
01-27-2011, 08:59 PM
I think it makes a lot of sense to play Bowers + Ayers every down and use Doom as a situational pass rusher. Kick Bowers in on that play.

Chris
01-28-2011, 12:21 AM
ayers was a 43 end when he came out, it was only due to mcdaniels idiocy that he had to play out of position. given that he was relatively highly rated, i have to imagine they want to give him a chance.

He was rated as a player who had that versatility to play in either scheme, and we just so happened to run a 34. His transition came with some growing pains. Could he start at LDE for us and be successful? Quite possibly. I think he will more than likely get that opportunity. Can he be upgraded over? Absolutely.

to be fair, this is partially based on my being unimpressed with bowers. at 6-10? i think he'd be a good pick. i'd think the same about dareus. but pretty much every DL this year just screams massive bust to me. fairley is an idiot on the field, as disruptive as he is. i think dareus is lazy. meh.

The conundrum in all of this is that Denver fans have pined for DL over the past five drafts and haven't gotten their wish, yet when they are in the chance to take several premium players at the position, fans start getting overly critical about them because we are selecting so high.

The pressure is on, no doubt, to get a quality player at the #2 selection. Where we select the player in my eyes is irrelevant, they just have to pan out. Moving down and acquiring more picks doesn't lessen the risk of who we take, wherever it is in the top ten. It just helps compensate for the potential bust ratio of that prospect.

i think, in all likelihood, i'm completely wrong when it comes to draft day. but all of those players make me really nervous at 2.

Everyone makes me nervous at #2 to be quite honest, and hopefully we can sucker a trade down and still land Bowers, Dareus or Peterson thereafter. (I'm guessing Fairley goes #1)

In all honesty, I would not be surprised if Peterson ends up being the pick. The Broncos might be confident enough in some of that DL talent being there in round two and could wait until then, but hopefully they don't.

I think it makes a lot of sense to play Bowers + Ayers every down and use Doom as a situational pass rusher. Kick Bowers in on that play.

Dumervil is not going to be a situational player for us with the contract he signed. If we are able to get a quality DT inside, it is going to help him out tremendously.

If Bowers was drafted, I would start him at LDE and have Dumervil at RDE. Ayers could kick it in on passing downs. I think that makes the most sense, especially for the type of defense Fox has been known to run.

All and all, the Broncos would have to be ******** to **** this pick up.

bigbluedefense
01-28-2011, 09:19 AM
I like the staff Fox put together.

I reiterate my jealousy of your coaching staff.

DBNYDP
01-28-2011, 11:56 AM
Best player should play
Doom is a great pass rusher, we know this. But he has never been good against the run. Ayers + Bowers are two everydown DE. Personally if Doom gets 12-15 sacks this year (not that hard to imagine even if he is a situational pass rusher) then he is playing his contract for me.
We simply cannot play a guy simply because of his contract if he is going to hurt us on the run game.
Maybe Fox fixes him up, but until Doom can stop the run as a 4-3 DE, he is not going to be a very good DE.

Chris
01-28-2011, 02:59 PM
Best player should play
Doom is a great pass rusher, we know this. But he has never been good against the run. Ayers + Bowers are two everydown DE. Personally if Doom gets 12-15 sacks this year (not that hard to imagine even if he is a situational pass rusher) then he is playing his contract for me.
We simply cannot play a guy simply because of his contract if he is going to hurt us on the run game.
Maybe Fox fixes him up, but until Doom can stop the run as a 4-3 DE, he is not going to be a very good DE.

Teams were still running to Dumervil's side as a 3-4 OLB and doing it with success. Upgrade the interior of our defensive line and that will help alleviate the problem.

Timbathia
01-28-2011, 07:40 PM
Teams were still running to Dumervil's side as a 3-4 OLB and doing it with success. Upgrade the interior of our defensive line and that will help alleviate the problem.

It didnt help that Doom had Kenny Peterson as the DE on his side. If Doom is the only weak link in the run game we will be fine.

DBNYDP
01-30-2011, 11:24 AM
I think we'll be fine but he would be a good pickup (Bowers).
I'm a huge fan of Dareus right now too..much better pick than Peterson IMO.

jCut
01-30-2011, 11:50 AM
pipedream: can we please, please move DJ back to WLB?

I would say that is likely. I would expect for us to draft or sign a MLB.

Cunningham
01-30-2011, 04:56 PM
i'm starting to lean towards taking martez wilson in the second if he's there. greg jones had a disappointing senior bowl week and he's looking more like a mid-round type of guy, same goes for quan sturdivant. there's some good potential free agents, but i doubt any of them actually hit free agency.

Timbathia
01-30-2011, 05:01 PM
i'm starting to lean towards taking martez wilson in the second if he's there. greg jones had a disappointing senior bowl week and he's looking more like a mid-round type of guy, same goes for quan sturdivant. there's some good potential free agents, but i doubt any of them actually hit free agency.

In some ways our biggest problem is going to be our LBs next season with our current roster. Ayers, Bannan, Thomas and Doom actually makes me much, much more comfortable than DJ, Mays and Haggan (who all look on paper like our starting 4-3 front 7). Mays and Haggan are huge liabilities in coverage, and it sounds like we will play a lot of cover-2, cover-3, zone stuff next season.

Namy
01-30-2011, 05:03 PM
As long as the Broncos are committed to defense, I would be surprised if the Broncos mess up this draft (at least for the first two rounds).

If we go for either Bowers/Dareus with our first pick (assuming Fairley goes #1 overall), we can always grab a solid CB in round 2 like Aaron Williams or even CU's Jimmy Smith.

If we go for Peterson with our first pick, then we can still possibly grab a solid DE/DL prospect such as Cameron Hayward, Allen Bailey, Cory Liuget with our next pick.

I'd be content with either scenario. With that said, trading down our #2 pick for a few spots down would be ideal.

Diehard
01-31-2011, 12:03 PM
If were are looking for someone inside whose coverage responsibilities would be limited to short zones, Kelvin Sheppard from LSU looked like quite a thumper at the Senior Bowl. He's got the natural leadership you like to see from a MLB.

There are actually quite a few nice 4-3 LB prospects who will probably make it out of rounds 1-2. Trading down at some point to get an extra 3rd or 4th would be a wise idea, IMO.

jCut
02-02-2011, 11:25 AM
I would love to get a guy like Mason Foster in the second round. I think he could be a starting ILB in John Fox's defense, similar to Beason. Not the biggest guy, but quick and instinctive.

Diehard
02-02-2011, 03:46 PM
I would love to get a guy like Mason Foster in the second round. I think he could be a starting ILB in John Fox's defense, similar to Beason. Not the biggest guy, but quick and instinctive.

I think he could play any of the 4-3 LB spots. He's one that should be on our radar.

DBNYDP
02-06-2011, 03:11 PM
Honestly I wouldn't be sad if our draft looked something like..
Dareus/Austin/Foster/Shepperd

crossroads
02-10-2011, 06:44 PM
Well, this is just ******* terrific.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/10/demaryius-thomas-ruptures-achilles-tendon/

Cunningham
02-10-2011, 06:56 PM
Well, this is just ******* terrific.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/10/demaryius-thomas-ruptures-achilles-tendon/
wow, just wow

Jimmy
02-10-2011, 07:59 PM
http://images.memegenerator.net/FUUUU/File/189795/FUUUU.jpg

Diehard
02-11-2011, 10:49 AM
That flushing you hear is the sound of two drafts going down the tubes...

I'm tired of all these injuries. Dump guys who can't stay healthy. If someone slides in the draft due to injury concerns, *IGNORE THEM*. It's not a "steal" if they don't see the field.

Diehard
02-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Apparently, negotiations are back on with Champ. That sends some interesting signals about the CBA...

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17398281

Jimmy
02-18-2011, 08:44 AM
4-3 it is...
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17418393

p.s. if we sign bob sanders imma kill a *****

Jimmy
02-20-2011, 04:58 PM
this mayock quote angers me:

"You mentioned two incredibly talented guys that each have boom-or-bust potential," said Mike Mayock, a draft analyst for the NFL Network. "Da'Quan Bowers is a one-year wonder. It was a wonderful one year, but you better make sure because he didn't have production prior to that."

Cunningham
02-20-2011, 11:41 PM
this mayock quote angers me:

"You mentioned two incredibly talented guys that each have boom-or-bust potential," said Mike Mayock, a draft analyst for the NFL Network. "Da'Quan Bowers is a one-year wonder. It was a wonderful one year, but you better make sure because he didn't have production prior to that."
yea, that seems a little harsh. how many defensive linemen come in and dominate in their first or second year out of high school? it's definitely one of the harder positions to make the transition from high school to college

Jimmy
02-21-2011, 09:59 PM
yea, that seems a little harsh. how many defensive linemen come in and dominate in their first or second year out of high school? it's definitely one of the harder positions to make the transition from high school to college

yep. and let's not forget that "one year wonder" is a term relegated to players to emphasize the fact that they may have just had a fluke year, and haven't really played that well in years past

Bowers was a monster senior year, 9th in the ACC in sacks junior year despite missing 3 games, and was ranked the #1 ****ing overall high school football prospect by ESPN.com in 2008 I want to slap mayock, it's just soooo mindblowing how he'd say that.
how are you going to tell me that a guy who was allegedly the #1 high school player in the USA in '08 hasn't played well in years past?
sure, it was his first and only super productive college season, but i've never heard the term "one year wonder" slapped on a player who was a 5-star prospect in high school (edit: whom at 265 lbs, posted 16 sacks and 21 touchdowns on offense), it's usually guys who came out of nowhere.
i'm angry because i love mayock and that really makes me wonder if he's any smarter than some of the idiots posting here
/end rant. i gotta lay off the 5 hour energy

Cunningham
02-21-2011, 11:54 PM
yep. and let's not forget that "one year wonder" is a term relegated to players to emphasize the fact that they may have just had a fluke year, and haven't really played that well in years past

Bowers was a monster senior year, 9th in the ACC in sacks junior year despite missing 3 games, and was ranked the #1 ****ing overall high school football prospect by ESPN.com in 2008 I want to slap mayock, it's just soooo mindblowing how he'd say that.
how are you going to tell me that a guy who was allegedly the #1 high school player in the USA in '08 hasn't played well in years past?
sure, it was his first and only super productive college season, but i've never heard the term "one year wonder" slapped on a player who was a 5-star prospect in high school (edit: whom at 265 lbs, posted 16 sacks and 21 touchdowns on offense), it's usually guys who came out of nowhere.
i'm angry because i love mayock and that really makes me wonder if he's any smarter than some of the idiots posting here
/end rant. i gotta lay off the 5 hour energy
mayock is as good as anyone, but he has his "moments". like last year, having earl thomas over berry, or being all over ayer's nuts a few years back

Jimmy
02-22-2011, 08:29 AM
wait. what? why would mayock put ANYTHING into what bowers did as a high school player? i can't think of anything less relevant to his future pro performance (except, maybe, his pop warner numbers). he *was* apparently a one year wonder in college. by your own admission. if you don't think that matters, that's one thing, but to try to argue that he *wasn't* based on high school stats is, well, silly.

this is how i see it. Joe mcknight never put up elite numbers at usc. let's say he does nothing his first two years, despite getting some pt. Now, lets say all of a sudden, he puts up 1500 yards and 15+ TD's his junior year, and then declared, i would't invision people labeling him a 1 year wonder. it doesn't seem right to me, no matter if he just had 1 good college season. no former top 5 h.s. player, in my mind, deserves that label

and no, bowers was not a one year wonder. he was arguably a one year wonder, by some people's admission. i'm not willing to debate over stats right now, and partially recant supporting the fact that he isn't a 1yw with high school stats. BUT he was solid for at least 2 years. i've just never heard of someone labeling a somebody a one year wonder after arguably just one good season when they were previously a top 10 recruit. i just can't remember the last time i've heard that, nor do i think it makes sense. usually, guys who were super elite in high school, on the same level as Joe McKnight in terms of national recognition, aren't labeled like that. people don't wonder if they have elite talent. back to the stats, I was simply using a few offensive numbers to lightly reinforce the idea that he has always been an athletic freak who has produced, albiet in high school.

still, the main idea remains, when was the last time you heard of a top 10 high school recruit get the one year wonder label? it just seems odd.

Jimmy
02-22-2011, 01:03 PM
some thoughts a day later...it's a "w/e" argument that you shouldn't waste your time on, nor will i waste my time defending after this. i'm not going to argue that high school stats count as production at the college level because that's... well... pointless. i'm just going to stick with the above idea that it just "feels odd" that mayock would label a guy who was a former all american is being labeled a 1yw. that's all.

Jimmy
02-22-2011, 01:25 PM
wait. what? why would mayock put ANYTHING into what bowers did as a high school player? i can't think of anything less relevant to his future pro performance (except, maybe, his pop warner numbers)

just to add on though, contradicting everything i said about not wanting to continue this... i will point out (once again with a mcknight reference)
that Mayock, Kiper and Scott all put SOMETHING into what McKnight did as a high school player, otherwise they wouldn't have him ranked so high. you can argue mcknight is a freak, but i'd argue bowers isn't far off position wise. His performance at USC didn't merit that high of a look. so why shouldn't they put anything into Bowers?

Namy
02-22-2011, 04:16 PM
The DP suggests that the Broncos take a hard look at Von Miller of A&M. He was never on my radar, despite his production throughout college.

The article I read argued that he was a player, who, because of his consistency in college as a pass rusher, would transition well to the NFL. We could expect him to have similar numbers in the pros. Any thoughts?

My preferences personally are Bowers and Dareus, with Fairley and Paterson close behind.

DBNYDP
02-22-2011, 04:56 PM
Von would play perhaps the one position on defense that I feel good about (WLB).

Diehard
02-22-2011, 05:57 PM
The deal is done.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Bailey-Stays-a-Bronco/11c1308f-3585-42b3-82a9-1189d913686b

It appears the new regime made a big difference in this decision.

Cunningham
02-22-2011, 06:41 PM
i'm smiling for what might be the first time all year regarding denver sports. all right, second time, considering we fired mcdaniels.

though this only makes me want peterson more.
but dude! what about the front seven!

Cunningham
02-22-2011, 06:52 PM
spend every pick after round one on it. seriously.
we definitely need help at defensive tackle and mlb.

can you imagine haggan or mays playing in the middle? hell, even having dj there makes me want to cry

DBNYDP
02-22-2011, 06:58 PM
Please if we get Peterson we'll still get abused. Just that we'll get abused on the ground or after the 10 secs a QB has to look for an open guy.
But I'm thrilled he's back

Cunningham
02-22-2011, 07:24 PM
Please if we get Peterson we'll still get abused. Just that we'll get abused on the ground or after the 10 secs a QB has to look for an open guy.
But I'm thrilled he's back
yeah, if you didn't notice, last year's defense was atrocious. it's not going to be fixed in one year. let's stop pretending that drafting a dl with every single pick would change that.

we need talent at all levels. look at all of the best defenses in the league. the jets, ravens, steelers, and packers all have at least one stud defensive back. we don't have that guy right now (no, a 33 year old champ doesn't count), and we have the perfect opportunity to get one with peterson.

DBNYDP
02-22-2011, 08:25 PM
yeah, if you didn't notice, last year's defense was atrocious. it's not going to be fixed in one year. let's stop pretending that drafting a dl with every single pick would change that.

Where did I say our defense was going to be fixed in a year? We have very little talent in the front 7 and it takes time to build quality players/depth there.

we need talent at all levels. look at all of the best defenses in the league. the jets, ravens, steelers, and packers all have at least one stud defensive back. we don't have that guy right now (no, a 33 year old champ doesn't count), and we have the perfect opportunity to get one with peterson.
You really are kidding yourself if you don't think front 7 has a bigger role in those teams success. They also have some of the biggest studs in the front 7, and especially on their defensive line e.g Ngata/Raji/Jenkins (when healthy)/Hampton. They have great linebackers Lewis, Suggs, Matthews, Harris, Harrison, and Woodley.
The talent that they have in their front 7 is immense and the depth is outstanding...

I'm not going to deny that someone like Polamalu has a huge impact for the Steelers just because as a roaming safety we've seen how many plays he can make. But frankly that is at safety. I'll say it again and again, corners do not have the impact that other plays like safeties/tackles/linebackers/ends have. Now you may want to convert Peterson which might be a good idea but that would mean you literally are drafting him for his athletic talent and hope he learns a position that requires a lot of football knowledge and decision making ability. As a corner he simply won't have the impact Fairley or Dareus or even Bowers will have. He won't help us a whole lot against the run. Nor will he be able to lock his man down for ever if the QB still has all day to throw.

NJX made a great point, we have more than one draft pick, lets use the rest on defensive linemen! Too bad the drop off is still considerable from the 1st to the second and so forward. We need two tackles, an end is probably a good idea, and probably 2 linebackers. All that with just 3 picks. Not to mention the gap we will still have at safety (we could get Moore/McDaniels/Carter in the second, and possibly get that huge playmaker). Oh and most likely we will want to try to fill out the blindside tackle spot asap as well. Oh and if we have other picks to use, why not simply get a corner later in the draft? The same logic applies there, and we might actually get a safer pick later (some do question Peterson's ability to be a corner because of his weight) in someone like Johnny Patrick or Davon House.

Right now the defensive line is the biggest need and there will be high quality linemen available when we pick. Secondary might still be an issue, especially the cornerback position but if we have Goodman next year, we are fine for the position for now. Add in the fact that Cox has shown good play at times (keep in mind it takes time for corners to come into their own generally), it is not close to our biggest need. Then you might comeback with HEY BUT PETERSON IS THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE,and I'd say that is the same logic that got Millen in so much trouble. There is a point where you need to fill your biggest needs.

Cunningham
02-22-2011, 09:22 PM
Where did I say our defense was going to be fixed in a year? We have very little talent in the front 7 and it takes time to build quality players/depth there.


You really are kidding yourself if you don't think front 7 has a bigger role in those teams success. They also have some of the biggest studs in the front 7, and especially on their defensive line e.g Ngata/Raji/Jenkins (when healthy)/Hampton. They have great linebackers Lewis, Suggs, Matthews, Harris, Harrison, and Woodley.
The talent that they have in their front 7 is immense and the depth is outstanding...

I'm not going to deny that someone like Polamalu has a huge impact for the Steelers just because as a roaming safety we've seen how many plays he can make. But frankly that is at safety. I'll say it again and again, corners do not have the impact that other plays like safeties/tackles/linebackers/ends have. Now you may want to convert Peterson which might be a good idea but that would mean you literally are drafting him for his athletic talent and hope he learns a position that requires a lot of football knowledge and decision making ability. As a corner he simply won't have the impact Fairley or Dareus or even Bowers will have. He won't help us a whole lot against the run. Nor will he be able to lock his man down for ever if the QB still has all day to throw.

NJX made a great point, we have more than one draft pick, lets use the rest on defensive linemen! Too bad the drop off is still considerable from the 1st to the second and so forward. We need two tackles, an end is probably a good idea, and probably 2 linebackers. All that with just 3 picks. Not to mention the gap we will still have at safety (we could get Moore/McDaniels/Carter in the second, and possibly get that huge playmaker). Oh and most likely we will want to try to fill out the blindside tackle spot asap as well. Oh and if we have other picks to use, why not simply get a corner later in the draft? The same logic applies there, and we might actually get a safer pick later (some do question Peterson's ability to be a corner because of his weight) in someone like Johnny Patrick or Davon House.

Right now the defensive line is the biggest need and there will be high quality linemen available when we pick. Secondary might still be an issue, especially the cornerback position but if we have Goodman next year, we are fine for the position for now. Add in the fact that Cox has shown good play at times (keep in mind it takes time for corners to come into their own generally), it is not close to our biggest need. Then you might comeback with HEY BUT PETERSON IS THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE,and I'd say that is the same logic that got Millen in so much trouble. There is a point where you need to fill your biggest needs.
not going to address the whole thing, because njx already made SOME GREAT POINTS, but you said before...

Please if we get Peterson we'll still get abused. Just that we'll get abused on the ground or after the 10 secs a QB has to look for an open guy
let's say you weren't talking about next season. who are you to say that we'll still be abused on defense, let's say in the '12 or '13 season, because we took peterson instead of a dl? you're not taking anything else into consideration when you make a claim like that.

also, please stop with the front seven ****. find me one person who believes or has made a statement indicating that having a good secondary is more important than having a good front seven.

DBNYDP
02-22-2011, 09:33 PM
And why not get Peterson this year and wait for Jenkins or Kilpatrick next year? Two prospects that have pretty high upsides but aren't as risky at Peterson is?

We need top talent in the front 7 now, and frankly I don't see great linemen like we have in this draft in the next couple years

Next year is deeper at corner so why not wait..
And we can arguably turn this ship around to maybe a team that can break even if we dramatically improve our front 7. It takes a lot of time and a lot of picks to build the front 7.

We have a nice CB crew right now, I'd like to give them a shot before we go using the 2nd pick of the draft there.

Cunningham
02-22-2011, 09:44 PM
And why not get Peterson this year and wait for Jenkins or Kilpatrick next year? Two prospects that have pretty high upsides but aren't as risky at Peterson is?

We need top talent in the front 7 now, and frankly I don't see great linemen like we have in this draft in the next couple years

Next year is deeper at corner so why not wait..
And we can arguably turn this ship around to maybe a team that can break even if we dramatically improve our front 7. It takes a lot of time and a lot of picks to build the front 7.

We have a nice CB crew right now, I'd like to give them a shot before we go using the 2nd pick of the draft there.
you've probably already said it somewhere, but who would you want out of the dl for our first pick?

Jimmy
02-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Wow. I really thought he wanted a championship. The loyalty of that guy. So awesome.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
02-22-2011, 10:11 PM
The way I see it, we need talent and playmakers on our defense. Period. We don't have enough of them. I'd be happy with either Peterson or Fairley. I don't think Bowers and Dareus are worth #2, and I'm not convinced our DE situation is anywhere near as bad as DT and DB.

Timbathia
02-22-2011, 10:48 PM
I still think our LBs are the worst line of the defense. The secondary will look better if the front 4 can put pressure on the QB, and the front 4 will be better if Doom is there to provide a pass-rush. In a 4-3, Ayers, Bannan, etc. will be much, much less of a negative influence on our def performance IMO than Mays and Haggan will be. Hopefully the answer at LB is in FA, or else we can hope we get a guy in the second that can contribute right away. Otherwise, I dont think it matters if we get a stud DT or CB, as we will suck great big donkey balls.

Diehard
02-22-2011, 11:32 PM
Xanders on the Fan talking about the deal with Champ:

http://www.1043thefan.com/channels/audioOnDemand/Story.aspx?ID=1368603

Some interesting stuff in there about the new defense. He also described the player they are looking for at #2 in the draft: disruptive playmaker, gets tfl's and sacks, loves football, wants to be a Bronco for next 15 years.

LonghornsLegend
02-23-2011, 01:00 AM
Wow. I really thought he wanted a championship. The loyalty of that guy. So awesome.

Weren't people trying to report how he put his house up for sale and how that meant he didn't want to play for Denver anymore? Just shows you how the media can huff up any story and read into it what they want to.

jCut
02-23-2011, 02:14 AM
i don't buy that at all. i think the talent level drops off FAR less sharply on the DL (for a 43) than it does at any other position in the entire draft. i think there will be 1st round caliber 43 players available in the 2nd round this year. and i don't believe that fairley or dareus are anywhere near suh-level (or even mccoy-level) prospects.

You are fooling yourself if you don't think Fairley is "anywhere near McCoy-level". That's just a silly thing to say.

Due to this draft having a strong DL class, there will most definitely be a run on lineman throughout the first round. There is no guarantee that any of these 1st round caliber prospects will drop to us. In my opinion, I would say it's more likely that 1st round caliber prospects of other positions are more likely to drop, due to said run.

bigbluedefense
02-23-2011, 07:31 AM
To compound on njx9's point, don't forget that 4-3 UT has become a position that falls in the draft bc of the demand of the 3-4.

You can most likely grab Nevis with your 2nd rounder. I much rather go Peterson in the 1st and Nevis in the 2nd.

CBs are like pass rushers. You can never have enough. And how great would it be for Peterson to learn under Champ Bailey?

Namy
02-23-2011, 10:22 AM
To compound on njx9's point, don't forget that 4-3 UT has become a position that falls in the draft bc of the demand of the 3-4.

You can most likely grab Nevis with your 2nd rounder. I much rather go Peterson in the 1st and Nevis in the 2nd.

CBs are like pass rushers. You can never have enough. And how great would it be for Peterson to learn under Champ Bailey?

Good points BBD. Definitely, the most attractive thing about drafting PP, imo, is not his atheletic ability. It's that Champ Bailey would have a worthy protoge (for once). I think the sky is the limit for PP were he to learn under Champ Bailey.

With that said, I still think that having two stud DBs is more of a luxury than a necessity. Not to mention, I think that some of the DBs that could fall into the second round are more than competent (e.g. CU's Jimmy Smith or Aaron Williams).

This train of thought may be overplayed, but I think the game is still won at the trenches. If we can get a strong push on the DL, it will naturally play in favor of ALL of our DBs. The more I read about Bowers, the more I want him. He seems to be the best of the bunch on the DL. Size, speed, pass rush, and run support. He seems to have Julius Peppers upside. My only concern with him is injury related. Hopefully, he's a player who can stay healthy.

For reasons that NJX gave, I would not want Fairley. He seems immature and I don't see him working hard enough to maximize his potential. But I do like Dareus. The guy's a beast and has had consistent production in college. And DT is a bigger need than DE anyway.

That's why personally it's a toss-up between Bowers and Dareus for me. But I wouldn't be bummed if we got Peterson or Fairley either. All four of them are great players.

EDIT: BBD, I also agree with your signature that Amare is better than Bosh. Like Durant said, Bosh is a fake tough guy LOL. With that said, I just noticed that I still have my signature from like 4 years ago. How embarassing, we don't have Melo or AI now.

Congrats on getting Melo. No matter what all the haters say, he took the Nuggets to the playoffs every single year. And you got Chauncey Billups. He's a true winner.

jCut
02-23-2011, 12:47 PM
i just don't buy it. fairley is lazy and 'stupid' on the field (dumb penalties and mental mistakes). mccoy was very nearly on a level with suh, as far as i'm concerned, and fairley isn't anywhere near any of them. in watching auburn last year and texas/nebraska the year before, there isn't a single thing that i think fairley does as well as either of the guys last year.

further, what run on 43 defensive linemen? most of the league runs a 34 now. do you think they're all as bad at drafting as mcxanders was (see: ayers, robert)?

So was Suh lazy and stupid when he took several personal fouls last year? Nick Fairley was the most dominant DT in college football last year and helped his team to a national title. Don't be so quick to write him off because of a few dumb penalties.

And I'd say most of these lineman are not system-specific. Bowers and Fairley maybe, but beyond that it's a very versatile DL group.

edit: also, do you really think bowlen will invest as much as 90 million in two cornerbacks? not likely in my opinion.

jCut
02-23-2011, 01:35 PM
lolwut?

there will be a rookie wage scale in place.

LOLZ

At this point there isn't a CBA in place, let alone a rookie wage scale.

jCut
02-23-2011, 02:04 PM
... right. so i'm assuming that, since the rookie salaries benefit no one, it will be taken care of in the new CBA. but hey, fair enough. you're right, it's unlikely that bowlen will want to tie up $238947329847329498237 in the cornerback position. *eyeroll*

It's the same reason the Jets are likely to let Cromartie walk.

Cunningham
02-23-2011, 06:55 PM
So was Suh lazy and stupid when he took several personal fouls last year? Nick Fairley was the most dominant DT in college football last year and helped his team to a national title. Don't be so quick to write him off because of a few dumb penalties.

And I'd say most of these lineman are not system-specific. Bowers and Fairley maybe, but beyond that it's a very versatile DL group.

edit: also, do you really think bowlen will invest as much as 90 million in two cornerbacks? not likely in my opinion.
i don't think dirty play in general is reflective of one's intelligence, but you can look at any interview with fairley and you can tell he's a dumb kid. additionally, fairley has one year of production. he had done jackshit before this past season, and he is absolutely the definition of a one year wonder. i'm not guaranteeing he'll be a bust, but not too many people would be shocked if he ends up disappointing in the nfl. there's no way he can touch suh or mccoy as a prospect.

jCut
02-24-2011, 01:22 AM
is it the same reason they didn't draft a CB in the first round last year?

Hell, Perrish Cox had a more effective year than Kyle Wilson. Wilson had a terrible rookie season and did nothing to earn a starting job. His skill-set is ideal for nickel duties anyway, and that's what they drafted him to be. My point being; they are allowing Cromartie to walk because other positions of need (mainly re-signing Santonio Holmes, addressing their aging front-seven) need to be addressed. Having two premium corners is a very nice luxury, but not necessary.

i don't think dirty play in general is reflective of one's intelligence, but you can look at any interview with fairley and you can tell he's a dumb kid. additionally, fairley has one year of production. he had done jackshit before this past season, and he is absolutely the definition of a one year wonder. i'm not guaranteeing he'll be a bust, but not too many people would be shocked if he ends up disappointing in the nfl. there's no way he can touch suh or mccoy as a prospect.

Fairley was a JUCO transfer, and spent his sophomore year in Division-1 adjusting to higher competition. In his junior year he dominated.

Cunningham
02-24-2011, 11:07 AM
Hell, Perrish Cox had a more effective year than Kyle Wilson. Wilson had a terrible rookie season and did nothing to earn a starting job. His skill-set is ideal for nickel duties anyway, and that's what they drafted him to be. My point being; they are allowing Cromartie to walk because other positions of need (mainly re-signing Santonio Holmes, addressing their aging front-seven) need to be addressed. Having two premium corners is a very nice luxury, but not necessary.



Fairley was a JUCO transfer, and spent his sophomore year in Division-1 adjusting to higher competition. In his junior year he dominated.
i know he was a juco transfer. it doesn't change the fact that he only had one season worth a damn at the collegiate level.

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Quick thought of mine just now.

1. Peterson CB
2. Nevis DT
3. Quan MIKE

move DJ to WILL. Thoughts on that 3 round mock?

Cunningham
02-24-2011, 11:37 AM
Quick thought of mine just now.

1. Peterson CB
2. Nevis DT
3. Quan MIKE

move DJ to WILL. Thoughts on that 3 round mock?
it's good, but we have miami's 2nd rounder as well. any reason for having nevis over paea and liuget?

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 11:51 AM
it's good, but we have miami's 2nd rounder as well. any reason for having nevis over paea and liuget?

Didn't know you had an extra 2nd. Shoot, I'd use that 2nd on Nate Irving and ditch Quan in the 3rd if that were the case.

I assumed Paea and Liuget may both be gone. Plus Nevis reminds me of Geno Atkins in a way. I admit I'm not entirely sold on Nevis, but he is a great fit as a pass rusher inside in a 4-3. He's very exclusively a 4-3 DT, and I highly doubt he's gone in the 1st.

jCut
02-24-2011, 12:06 PM
so they drafted another DB in the first because having a nickel back was that important (apparently more important than addressing an aging front seven)?

what does perrish cox have to do with anything?

In case you didn't know, a nickel corner is basically a starter in the NFL.

I'm just pointing out that Perrish Cox is more deserving of a starting job than Kyle Wilson is, based on last years play.

I just don't get the insistence that we draft Peterson. It won't happen. Count on it.

jCut
02-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Didn't know you had an extra 2nd. Shoot, I'd use that 2nd on Nate Irving and ditch Quan in the 3rd if that were the case.

I assumed Paea and Liuget may both be gone. Plus Nevis reminds me of Geno Atkins in a way. I admit I'm not entirely sold on Nevis, but he is a great fit as a pass rusher inside in a 4-3. He's very exclusively a 4-3 DT, and I highly doubt he's gone in the 1st.

Nevis just doesn't do it for me. We need a dominant run-stuffer, and that's why we should target a DT earlier.

bigbluedefense
02-24-2011, 12:13 PM
Nevis just doesn't do it for me. We need a dominant run-stuffer, and that's why we should target a DT earlier.

run stuffing nose tackles in a 4-3 defense can be had in later rounds. in a 43, you want your Under to be a pass rusher first and foremost.

He can develop into a run stuffer when he puts on more weight and gets some NFL coaching.

I agree though, Nevis needs some work. We'll have a better idea of where guys will fall once the combine comes around. It would not surprise me if you can get Nevis in the 3rd when all the dust settles.

Geno fell to the 4th bc he was strictly a pass rushing DT who was undersized. But those guys thrive in a 4-3.

Diehard
02-24-2011, 12:52 PM
run stuffing nose tackles in a 4-3 defense can be had in later rounds. in a 43, you want your Under to be a pass rusher first and foremost.

I'd say an inside pass rusher is right at the top of our needs. Too many times our DL gets stonewalled by the OL on passing downs. Dumervil coming back gives us the outside rush, but having some push inside as well would make it difficult for the QB to step up to avoid Doom.

Timbathia
02-24-2011, 04:04 PM
see, this is why i think we take (i mean, why *i* would take) peterson in the first. i think there are a LOT of guys we could target with those two seconds and third to play upfront.

anyone have thoughts on jamal williams as a run-down guy? he's a big body, but i dunno what his role would be (maybe 'how he would fit in' would be more accurate) in a 43...

I would think that Bannan and Williams could split reps as a 4-3 NT. I am not even sure that we need to draft someone this year for that role. Pass rushing DT is the real need, with LB, CB, and S all more important than the run stuffing DT.

jCut
02-24-2011, 04:41 PM
Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I don't see Williams making the team. Bannan is the only guy I think is assured of a spot.

Timbathia
02-24-2011, 04:47 PM
Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I don't see Williams making the team. Bannan is the only guy I think is assured of a spot.

You may be right, but based on our lack of quality depth it might be worthwhile to keep Williams there for goal-line and obvious running down duties.

jCut
02-24-2011, 07:16 PM
You may be right, but based on our lack of quality depth it might be worthwhile to keep Williams there for goal-line and obvious running down duties.

Definitely a good point, but I think we may just cut him, considering he is owed $5 million this year and none of it is guaranteed. He's definitely not worth the money and I don't know if he wants to be part of our rebuilding process in moving to a 43.

Diehard
02-27-2011, 10:37 AM
Xanders talking about changes in how they are approaching the draft:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17493183

I'm glad the shortlist approach is gone. It was obvious we reached on some players using that system (e.g. Quinn).

The "speed and athleticism" bit is interesting. MLB, SLB and SS are all in dire need of an upgrade if that is what we are looking for in our back 7.

DBNYDP
02-27-2011, 12:23 PM
Lately I've been conflicted.
If we drafted Peterson I wouldn't mutilate myself. It would give us a great corner, and that is pretty rare to find.
Especially if we can get a combination of Paea/Nevis/Austin/Wilkerson/Taylor with our 2nd round picks.
I'd keep Williams as a backup NT. He's a solid leader on this team, and should be able to mentor guys on this line. He's also a high character guy so maybe he can make sure that some of the "questionable characters" at defensive tackle learn to behave themselves as professionals.

jCut
02-27-2011, 12:38 PM
Xanders talking about changes in how they are approaching the draft:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17493183

I'm glad the shortlist approach is gone. It was obvious we reached on some players using that system (e.g. Quinn).

The "speed and athleticism" bit is interesting. MLB, SLB and SS are all in dire need of an upgrade if that is what we are looking for in our back 7.

Wow. Interesting read.

I wonder if Woodyard could be a stop-gap at SLB. He definitely has the speed and athleticism. He was obviously miscast as a 34 ILB.

CT Bronco Fan
02-27-2011, 02:05 PM
The good news is that no matter who we draft at 2, they will be an immediate upgrade.

The bads news is that the good news is pretty pathetic.

I think Carolina goes with Bowers/Quinn, I personally have my eye on Dareus anyways, so that'd be fine by me. Either one of the DL imo.

Diehard
02-27-2011, 02:26 PM
I wonder if Woodyard could be a stop-gap at SLB. He definitely has the speed and athleticism. He was obviously miscast as a 34 ILB.

Taking on the TE (in the running game and in coverage) is the bread-n-butter of a 4-3 SLB. Woodyard gives up a lot of weight in that matchup... he's only 220 or so.

Diehard
02-27-2011, 11:42 PM
Yes, I think Lawson would work. FA is the right place to be looking for a SLB - reasonable value for money since you aren't overpaying for pass rush and there are some options available this time around (assuming FA happens).

We haven't been able to cover a TE in, well, forever it seems. Would be nice to change that.

Timbathia
02-27-2011, 11:46 PM
Yes, I think Lawson would work. FA is the right place to be looking for a SLB - reasonable value for money since you aren't overpaying for pass rush and there are some options available this time around (assuming FA happens).

We haven't been able to cover a TE in, well, forever it seems. Would be nice to change that.

Good - either you or njx get the paperwork moving on this so that as soon as the CBA stuff is sorted out we can get him to Dove Valley. It sounds like a much better option than Mario or Joe.

Diehard
02-27-2011, 11:49 PM
Good - either you or njx get the paperwork moving on this so that as soon as the CBA stuff is sorted out we can get him to Dove Valley. It sounds like a much better option than Mario or Joe.

I'll get my secretary working on it tomorrow when I get to the office. She'll of course have no ******* idea what I'm talking about. Should be amusing.

Cunningham
03-01-2011, 11:47 AM
so that patrick peterson is pretty good....

RaiderNation
03-01-2011, 01:55 PM
Fairley or Dareus?

Diehard
03-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Fairley or Dareus?

I think they'd go the more conservative route and pick Dareus.

Cunningham
03-01-2011, 06:16 PM
how'd he look in drills? all i can see are the numbers... eye-popping....
i didn't see it, but mayock said he looked good for what it's worth

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-01-2011, 06:28 PM
I want PP really bad now.

Namy
03-02-2011, 11:37 AM
Reports seem to indicate that Dareus and PP had some of the better showings. Hopefully, we'll target one of these two.

Fairley seemed to be too light. And Bowers' injury is not recovering as quickly as people thought it would. That is scaring me away from drafting him, to be honest.

If we can trade down, I wouldn't mind drafting Von Miller either as he looks like the real deal.

Diehard
03-02-2011, 01:58 PM
Fox on KOA:

http://www.850koa.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes&mps=cmn.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/29876/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/29876/668/richmedia/2-2_JOHN_FOX.mp3?CCOMRRMID=20915794&CPROG=RICHMEDIA&MARKET=DENVER-CO&NG_FORMAT=&NG_ID=&OR_NEWSFORMAT=&OWNER=668&SERVER_NAME=www.850koa.com&SITE_ID=668&STATION_ID=KOA-AM&TRACK=

Said that having the second pick allows them to hit both positional need and get value in terms of talent, and that they have 5-6 guys they like at #2.

Also said the 40 was pretty important in terms of draft stock. Interesting.

Diehard
03-02-2011, 05:38 PM
Daniel Graham cut:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Graham-Released/0029ab07-f1f7-4307-883e-726aa8a83e20

Qualifying offers for RFA's Woodyard, Harris, Thomas, Vickerson, Prater:

http://twitter.com/johnelway

Namy
03-02-2011, 08:42 PM
5-6? dareus, fairley, bowers, quinn... peterson... ???

Perhaps Von Miller?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
03-02-2011, 09:19 PM
Cam Newton? This is the Broncos after all.

jCut
03-02-2011, 11:13 PM
Fairley seemed to be too light.

Huh? He's 291 lbs. That's about average for a 43 UT.

People were first saying he will eat his way out of the league, and now he's too light.

Diehard
03-03-2011, 12:03 AM
5-6? dareus, fairley, bowers, quinn... peterson... ???

I wouldn't be surprised if one of Quinn and Fairley isn't on their list. The organization is definitely risk-adverse right now and I could see how the team might be scared off by the off-the-field questions or bust factor.

I think Von Miller is probably on the list. There was a thing in the Denver Post yesterday about DJ as WLB or MLB, with the writer's sense being the organization was learning towards him playing *MLB* based on the talent that was available in the draft and FA. That's pretty much the opposite of what I was thinking, but if it is true, it could be setting things up for potentially bringing in Miller to play a more blitz-focused role on the outside in Allen's defense (which I'm sure will incorporate some of the things he learned from Gregg Williams in NO).

DBNYDP
03-03-2011, 12:19 AM
Frankly from what I've seen Von Miller is really nothing more than average maybe slightly above average when it comes to playing in coverage and stopping the run. I think there are going to be 4-3 OLBs as good as him, if not better because of experience such as Foster, Carter, or Wilson in later rounds. What makes him a special player is his pass rushing abilities which I don't so used effectively enough to justify a top pick.
Also I think you'd be replacing D.J with Von Miller is somewhat silly to me. I don't think he is a very good MLB or SLB, but as a WLB I think he is a top 5 WLB. He really used his athleticism well when he played there, and doesn't have to worry as much about shedding blocks/playing against TEs.

Timbathia
03-03-2011, 02:50 AM
Von Miller seems better suited to a team that will use him in blitz packages. All indications are that we will use our front 4 to get pressure, and not our LBs. I think he will be a very good player, but doesnt seem the ideal impact option for us at #2.

I dont think Quinn can even be in the conversation.

I dont think it matters who we get out of the other 4. Legit arguments for any - it will probably come down to the interviews, so we have no way of knowing who it will be until the draft. We just need to make sure that the second round picks turn into good starters (one of them almost has to be a LBer).

Diehard
03-03-2011, 09:42 AM
Some prospects we're keeping an eye on according to the DP:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17522231

* Dareus
* J.J. Watt
* Dontay Moch
* Von Miller
* Patrick Peterson
* Da'Norris Searcy

A bit of a fluff piece but it is interesting to hear we interviewed Moch at the combine. He's fits the bill for "increasing team speed and athleticism". SLB?

Diehard
03-03-2011, 10:23 AM
seems like moch is a worse fit than miller, unless we want a pure rush down backer... or we think he can be had pretty late.

Agreed. It's curious that the team appears to have an interest in a rushbacker type player despite the comments about moving to a 4-3. Maybe Allen is influencing the defensive scheme than we think? Moch or Miller could be quite effective in 3-3-5 looks where they can come off the edge.

Diehard
03-03-2011, 03:51 PM
Bannan and JWall gone:

http://twitter.com/Denver_Broncos

I knew Williams would be a goner - too old, too much money. Bannan is a little more of a surprise. DL was never a position of strength, but with both Thomas and Vickerson RFA's (and potentially FA's depending on how the CBA shakes out) and now these cuts, we could very well have a complete turnover at DT.

Babylon
03-03-2011, 04:18 PM
makes dareus seem a lot more likely...

Allright bigman give me your take on Elway's less than ringing endorsement of Tim Tebow? or is there nothing there.