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njx9
11-09-2006, 08:21 AM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/williams_darrent_splash.jpg

RIP Darrent (http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=2027)

slightlyaraiderfan
11-09-2006, 03:49 PM
0 post. :wink: (until now of course)

njx9
11-09-2006, 03:55 PM
i have a feeling this thread will get pruned eventually. most of our pages came from people arguing with me who don't post here anymore.

Namy
11-09-2006, 06:02 PM
If Broncos lose to Raiders this week I'd jump off a cliff

well ok not really. Anyway, this week should be easy. Raiders have been looking awful, and I expect sacks, INTs, and fumbles for our D this game. I want a SHUTOUT and our offense to score 20+ pts.

njx9
11-09-2006, 07:05 PM
yeah, i'll be moderately bitter if we don't break their will by the end of the first half. there's just no excuse this week.

Chris
11-09-2006, 09:43 PM
Well that's crazy. When's Scott going to ask us the no-brainer, "What's their biggest need?" question. . .

njx9
11-09-2006, 09:54 PM
i think we've been vocal enough he won't need to.

Chris
11-11-2006, 07:42 PM
I made a mock and posted it on the Broncos site, but it went like this without the analysis, you'll see it there if you want. I'm the user "Dream"

1) Tim Crowder, LDE
2) Dwayne Bowe, WR
3) Marcus Harrison, LDT (Junior)
3B) Doug Free, OT
4) **Traded to Atlanta**
5) Abraham Wright, RDE
6) Josh Gattis, FS
7) Germaine Race, RB

njx9
11-11-2006, 09:48 PM
LDT? i may just be misinterpreting the acronym after completely losing saturday (bloody international travel), but i didn't realize left defensive tackle needed the specificity.

Chris
11-12-2006, 03:19 PM
LDT? i may just be misinterpreting the acronym after completely losing saturday (bloody international travel), but i didn't realize left defensive tackle needed the specificity.

It doesn't have to be, but he plays left defensive tackle. Warren already is the three technique guy at RT, so I figured a guy next to him would be best. Doesn't matter though, there are some who play where he does who'd be good too, but maybe less effective.

Space Ghost
11-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Wow, I hope Cutler gets in this game, Cutler is 2/8 1TD 2INT. If you guys hadn't traded for Javon Walker I think that Cutler would already be on the field because he is the only one making Plummer not look like a complete bum.

Do you guys think that Kubiak was the reason that Plummer was so good last year and he is so bad this year? Or is he just that bad of a quarterback?

Namy
11-12-2006, 05:41 PM
Wow, I hope Cutler gets in this game, Cutler is 2/8 1TD 2INT. If you guys hadn't traded for Javon Walker I think that Cutler would already be on the field because he is the only one making Plummer not look like a complete bum.

Do you guys think that Kubiak was the reason that Plummer was so good last year and he is so bad this year? Or is he just that bad of a quarterback?
THis is pathetic. It is a rivalry game, but honestly we just look unprepared. The defense is being penetrated with screen passes and the offense is looking as bad as it was in the beginning of the season if not worse.

Namy
11-12-2006, 07:38 PM
So Plummer threw 3 INTs (shoulda been 4). He did go on a nice run, but it shouldn't have taken him so long to get in rythem. Pathetic performance by the offense, and defense also showed some vulnerability in the first half (but I'll give the D a pass because the offense was goin 3&out and the defense had numerous hurting players either in the game or not).

njx9
11-12-2006, 09:01 PM
someone give me a synopsis here... being in australia, i got to see a great rugby match on sunday instead of what appears to be one of the most atrocious performances by any playoff team this late in the season.

was our running game really that disgustingly bad, or did we just stop trying?

was jake as awful as it sounds? 21/30 doesn't sound too bad, but it looks like the interceptions very nearly killed us.

what the &*#^$* are we doing giving up that many points to oakland?

maybe most importantly, how do we score almost at will against a better steelers defense and then eke out victory against oakland?

njx9
11-12-2006, 09:04 PM
LDT? i may just be misinterpreting the acronym after completely losing saturday (bloody international travel), but i didn't realize left defensive tackle needed the specificity.

It doesn't have to be, but he plays left defensive tackle. Warren already is the three technique guy at RT, so I figured a guy next to him would be best. Doesn't matter though, there are some who play where he does who'd be good too, but maybe less effective.

gotcha. i've never heard them mentioned as LDT or RDT, usually NT and UT, but whatever, the terminology isn't all that important to me.

i like the positions (WR seems to high to me, but i seem to be the only one who doesn't think we need another one, so i won't argue), and a S in the 6th seems more logical to me (in reality) than a S early (though i wish we could just get one who was a stud... ferguson still kills me at least twice a game).

Namy
11-12-2006, 10:42 PM
someone give me a synopsis here... being in australia, i got to see a great rugby match on sunday instead of what appears to be one of the most atrocious performances by any playoff team this late in the season.

was our running game really that disgustingly bad, or did we just stop trying?

was jake as awful as it sounds? 21/30 doesn't sound too bad, but it looks like the interceptions very nearly killed us.

what the &*#^$* are we doing giving up that many points to oakland?

maybe most importantly, how do we score almost at will against a better steelers defense and then eke out victory against oakland?
In the first qtr Plummer had two quick stupid INTs that led to the raiders going up 7-0. His other INT tho wasn't THAT bad as it was fourth down anyway and the guy intercepted beyond where we were and it woulda been turnover on downs. Still, Plummer's efficiency is very volatile at this point and it makes me uncomfortable. He did play much better in the second half and made some good short passes under pressure...

The running game was completely gone. I was thoroughly unimpressed. Last week was bad, this week was worse. TBell didn't play much (maybe the injury is bothering him?), and his replacement Nash was pretty much "unspectacular". Anyways, rivalry games should never be expected to be blowouts, but hey, whatevers, we got the WIN which is all that matters temporarily.

njx9
11-13-2006, 02:49 AM
what happened to mike? i completely missed him on the injury report if he was there

Chris
11-13-2006, 02:19 PM
Meadows also got the start over Foster.

Shanahan said he was just tinkering around to see what we had, in regards to that and with the backs. He's said both Bell and Foster have done good stuff, but the others earned that right.

Looks like our whole 2003 class sucked.

1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 19 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 11 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 17 Nicholas Eason DT Clemson
4 31 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 22 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 23 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 21 Aaron Hunt DE Texas Tech
7 13 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 21 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

Also, if he's not happy with Foster, Pears played like **** today, and Meadows wasn't even that great.

Tackle is now an early first-day need for us. . .

njx9
11-13-2006, 04:03 PM
*refrains from dogging shanahan about his draft record*

njx9
11-14-2006, 03:33 PM
bump

Chris
11-15-2006, 11:40 AM
Shanahan wanted to trade back into the first for Maroney (http://www.insidedenver.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5142099,00.html)

I guess NJX and myself were wrong.

They wanted the kid bad.

Can you imagine?

Of course no team would, I mean those picks are worth as half as much as they are since they were future. . . but wow.

WOW.[/url]

njx9
11-15-2006, 03:40 PM
i refuse to admit that anything printed in the rocky mountain news has any vague credibility.

on the other hand, at least it says nothing about us trying to take a TE in the first. and it doesn't look like any of the running backs we could get are worth a first for us (unless the skins are in position to get AD).

johbur
11-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Any news on how Mike Bell is doing? It seemed like he had a great pre-season, but has tailed off.

Chris
11-15-2006, 05:35 PM
i refuse to admit that anything printed in the rocky mountain news has any vague credibility.

on the other hand, at least it says nothing about us trying to take a TE in the first. and it doesn't look like any of the running backs we could get are worth a first for us (unless the skins are in position to get AD).

What?

No, Krieger talked to Shanahan and said he wanted to get Maroney last year. . . by using future picks.

I believe this 100%.

I also think that if Lynch comes out, we'll have a legit shot at him. We have a lot of picks and players to trade. . . so we'll see.

draftguru151
11-15-2006, 07:50 PM
Is Dumervil actually playing well or just geting worthless easy sacks?

njx9
11-15-2006, 08:15 PM
Is Dumervil actually playing well or just geting worthless easy sacks?

his first couple were debatable, but he's been fantastic since. then again, i didn't see the oakland game.

njx9
11-15-2006, 08:16 PM
i refuse to admit that anything printed in the rocky mountain news has any vague credibility.

on the other hand, at least it says nothing about us trying to take a TE in the first. and it doesn't look like any of the running backs we could get are worth a first for us (unless the skins are in position to get AD).

What?

No, Krieger talked to Shanahan and said he wanted to get Maroney last year. . . by using future picks.

I believe this 100%.

I also think that if Lynch comes out, we'll have a legit shot at him. We have a lot of picks and players to trade. . . so we'll see.

i'm just refusing to admit that i was wrong.

i'm also not sure how well lynch fits us. i'll need to try to tivo a cal game at some point and get a look at him.

Namy
11-15-2006, 11:16 PM
i refuse to admit that anything printed in the rocky mountain news has any vague credibility.

on the other hand, at least it says nothing about us trying to take a TE in the first. and it doesn't look like any of the running backs we could get are worth a first for us (unless the skins are in position to get AD).

What?

No, Krieger talked to Shanahan and said he wanted to get Maroney last year. . . by using future picks.

I believe this 100%.

I also think that if Lynch comes out, we'll have a legit shot at him. We have a lot of picks and players to trade. . . so we'll see.

i'm just refusing to admit that i was wrong.

i'm also not sure how well lynch fits us. i'll need to try to tivo a cal game at some point and get a look at him.
I've watched several Cal games, and Lynch imo is overrated. Remember how good J.J. Arrington looked at Cal? Same thing w/Lynch in my opinion. If we get any rb, it should be Michael Bush... his stock might drop due to his injury if he wishes to declare for the draft... or we can wait to get Darren McFadden netxt year... the dude hits the hole with great power and with speed. He'd be perfect in our offense.

Chris
11-16-2006, 11:41 AM
Lynch and Arrington can't even be comparable, and dude. . . Arrington is running behind a crappy line.

Lynch can run, catch hell even pass. He's an excellent fit for us.

njx9
11-17-2006, 08:01 AM
i have to imagine lynch is more nfl ready than arrington. ignoring anything else, i think he's got much better size (5-11/217 vs. 5-9/220ish [apparently? arrington looked much smaller to me]).

smittyjs
11-17-2006, 10:31 AM
Cutler News???

Namy
11-17-2006, 11:42 PM
i have to imagine lynch is more nfl ready than arrington. ignoring anything else, i think he's got much better size (5-11/217 vs. 5-9/220ish [apparently? arrington looked much smaller to me]).
Eh that may be true to some extent, but his production largely benefits from the Cal system... anyways, I'm not saying Lynch is bad... but he's not GREAT. He's a good notch below a healthy Michael Bush and Peterson.

Anyway, the RB who would be PERFECT in our system is Darren McFadden... but he's not eligible lol

So anyway, I find it funny how many ppl on ESPN are liking the Chargers to beat us... not realizing that we always beat them at home, Denver is the best at neutralizing LT, and PHillip Rivers has not played a defense as fast as ours (and in altitude too). I see no way in us losing UNLESS Jake gives the ball away like crazy. Otherwise, i think we easily win contrary to popular belief.

Namy
11-19-2006, 10:37 PM
i have to imagine lynch is more nfl ready than arrington. ignoring anything else, i think he's got much better size (5-11/217 vs. 5-9/220ish [apparently? arrington looked much smaller to me]).
Eh that may be true to some extent, but his production largely benefits from the Cal system... anyways, I'm not saying Lynch is bad... but he's not GREAT. He's a good notch below a healthy Michael Bush and Peterson.

Anyway, the RB who would be PERFECT in our system is Darren McFadden... but he's not eligible lol

So anyway, I find it funny how many ppl on ESPN are liking the Chargers to beat us... not realizing that we always beat them at home, Denver is the best at neutralizing LT, and PHillip Rivers has not played a defense as fast as ours (and in altitude too). I see no way in us losing UNLESS Jake gives the ball away like crazy. Otherwise, i think we easily win contrary to popular belief.
wow. i am stunned. Here's my thoughts:

1. Our defense is clearly overrated
2. Plummer needs to go (he only had two huge mistakes, but he just has too many 3&outs)
3. I really hated the playcalling this game. No playaction/bootleg and going on the fourth down at the 30 yd line with 3+min and 2 TOs?

Props to LT tho. That guy is a beast. The only thing that worries me now is how will we respond against KC on Thanksgiving? I'm unfortunately afraid of an emotional letdown.

sweetness34
11-19-2006, 10:40 PM
After this game I think njx has put the rope, the duct tape, and the bullets in his car. Man I can only imagine how pissed off he is right now.

njx9
11-19-2006, 10:51 PM
plummer absolutely lost us that game. well, plummer and the fact that our defense refuses to cover anyone who starts the play in the backfield. realistically, we would lose every game by fifty points if the other team just lined up its wide receivers as running backs. but plummer has now cost us a crucial game with his complete mis-management of third downs (converting an incredible 40%) and his total lack of ability in the fourth quarter. he completely missed brandon marshall on a huge play. underthrew and generally failed to get the ball to rod smith on numerous occasions. i'm almost rooting for more losses, just so he'll get the hook sooner.

Namy
11-19-2006, 11:37 PM
I think what is being forgotten is how crappy our ST was.

I distinctly remember being opposed to cutting Sauerbrun, but it seemed like everyone else here liked Ernster. Well he has done crap. His punts are horrible and wobbly, and his kickoffs rarely go into the endzone unless the wind is behind him. But it's not all Ernster's fault, our ST coverage was pathetic. Numerous times we couldnt ******* tackle Turner and he always got up to the 35-40 yard line.

njx9
11-20-2006, 11:05 AM
our tackling overall was a complete joke. LT running through literally 8 members of our defense because NO ONE wrapped up was awful.

i think chukwurah's absence on the special teams was a serious blow (sort of like when burns left for the year or two). on the other hand, ernster did average something like 45 yards per punt (47.8 actually).

the biggest problem regardless, imo, was that jake was 2 for 9 in converting 3rd downs through the air. that's pathetic. no, that's worse than pathetic. it's either terrible play-calling or it's awful execution, and we stand no chance whatsoever in the playoffs with that kind of performance from our QB/offense.

bigbluedefense
11-20-2006, 11:08 AM
Can we see Cutler now please?

And you guys clearly need a pass rush out of your front 4. You cannot be a consistent defensive if you rely on the blitz every game like you guys do. You need a rush out of the front 4.

Namy
11-20-2006, 07:40 PM
Can we see Cutler now please?

And you guys clearly need a pass rush out of your front 4. You cannot be a consistent defensive if you rely on the blitz every game like you guys do. You need a rush out of the front 4.
lmao. Um... thanks for stating the obvious?

Anyway... through thanksgiving break I had predicted before the season for us to have an 8-3 record... of course my losses that I thought would be were @NE, @Pitt, and @KC. Right now we are 7-3, so if we can beat KC on Thanksgiving, it should be all good... my only concern is that they are damn near unbeatable for us at Arrowhead.

Btw... did anyone notice LT's pants falling down? I must've seen his crack like 5 times that game. It was not too pleasant...

njx9
11-20-2006, 10:17 PM
my hope is that, because the game is in november, that we've got a chance.

and i don't mean to be gloom and doom, 7-4 wouldn't be the end of the world, but the way this team is playing, they'll get torched in the playoffs by anyone who actually cares about winning.

Chris
11-21-2006, 12:46 PM
Nick Ferguson is done for the year with a knee injury. No official link, but CBS4 and multiple sources including ESPN are reporting this.

Looks like one is coming early in the draft or in FA.

If you guys wanted to see my site that just is dedicated to Broncos drafting. . .

www.broncosdraft.blogspot.com

I hope Scott's okay with me posting that. :D

Chris
11-21-2006, 01:03 PM
FYI: That's the draft without me knowing anything about the injury to Ferguson. . .

njx9
11-21-2006, 02:55 PM
i intensely disagree with another mid-round WR at this point. how many do we really need? all of these guys take so long to develop (or at least, take so long before shanahan plays them) that it seems like we've got an almost never-ending parade of #3 and #4 receivers who still never quite beat out guys like todd devoe and charlie adams (at least, till recently). i'd be much happier with targetting a WR like kircus in free agency, at least to have a veteran presence, rather than pissing away another pick on a guy who isn't going to see the field for any meaningful amount of time. especially given that the team has been absolutely atrocious at drafting and developing talent at the position.

elway777
11-21-2006, 07:27 PM
Nick Ferguson is done for the year with a knee injury. No official link, but CBS4 and multiple sources including ESPN are reporting this.

Looks like one is coming early in the draft or in FA.

If you guys wanted to see my site that just is dedicated to Broncos drafting. . .

www.broncosdraft.blogspot.com

I hope Scott's okay with me posting that. :D

Love your picks,especially Ryan Harris,he'd be a great fit in Denver.

Chris
11-21-2006, 07:38 PM
i intensely disagree with another mid-round WR at this point. how many do we really need? all of these guys take so long to develop (or at least, take so long before shanahan plays them) that it seems like we've got an almost never-ending parade of #3 and #4 receivers who still never quite beat out guys like todd devoe and charlie adams (at least, till recently). i'd be much happier with targetting a WR like kircus in free agency, at least to have a veteran presence, rather than pissing away another pick on a guy who isn't going to see the field for any meaningful amount of time. especially given that the team has been absolutely atrocious at drafting and developing talent at the position.

Piss poor special teams.

Bad receivers.

A guy who is good at both.

I agree, FA would be nice. . . but what are the chances we land a good guy in FA?

njx9
11-21-2006, 07:43 PM
sure, and i kind of get it, i just don't like the idea. and logically, it'd be a shanahan move.

meh.

i think a 5/6th round linebacker would be a better special teams guy, since we need the depth and we've had great luck with chukwurah and burns.

Namy
11-21-2006, 07:52 PM
I think if Woodley is available we should try to get him. He's a very good Dlineman who gets overshadowed by Alan Branch.

Chris
11-21-2006, 08:22 PM
sure, and i kind of get it, i just don't like the idea. and logically, it'd be a shanahan move.

meh.

i think a 5/6th round linebacker would be a better special teams guy, since we need the depth and we've had great luck with chukwurah and burns.

Wright out of Colorado is the guy I think I'll have us getting in the 5th when I do my updated mock draft in a week or so.

Hixon hasn't had he chance to show what he can do as a returner, but the Broncos seriously need help at the position.

It's almost impossible to please everyone though.

Some people are saying the Broncos like Kenny Irons and John Wendling a lot. . .

njx9
11-22-2006, 09:07 AM
i'd love woodley, though i'm not sure how well he would fit in as a 4-3 DE in the NFL... it sounded to me (and looked, in the two UM games i've been able to see) like he was more suited for a 3-4 OLB role. on the other hand, i'd take just about anything capable of pressuring the QB right now.

i do like abraham wright a lot, as bad as CU's been, the LBers are still pretty fantastic.

does irons fit us at all? the only time i saw auburn play, i was FAR more impressed with his back-up (who's a RB i'd LOVE to see us get in two years) than with him. i don't recall him hitting the hole particularly hard, but this was much earlier in the year, maybe he's gotten better since.

realistically, i would MUCH rather trade away picks and players and move up as far as we can in the first to get someone who can help on the d-line. i'm coming around a bit on the RB issue (although, i think if shanny just stuck with mike bell we'd look a bit better), but DE has got to be the #1 biggest need, and clearly, shanahan won't take one unless he can get a premier player. let's move into the top ten (maybe the redskins want jake?) and get someone who can anchor the line for a few years.

Chris
11-22-2006, 10:13 AM
We don't need an elite guy on the line really and there's no shot we get Moses or Adams anyways at this point in time.

It'll come down to Abiamiri, Crowder or Woodley at DE.

Tank Tyler is the DT I'm hoping for; if we go there in the first.

Titans10
11-22-2006, 06:06 PM
Looks like Cutler will be starting soon :D

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9823256

njx9
11-22-2006, 06:19 PM
i'm sort of ambivalent, but then, i may be overrating the seahawks defense... i guess i'd just have thrown him in at arizona, especially with our beat up backfield and o-line.

whatever, give it time to soak in and i'll be stoked.

Ravens1991
11-22-2006, 06:28 PM
Speaking of Cutler, how did he look in training camp and in pre-season? I know he looked good in that Lions game but how did he look at other times?

njx9
11-22-2006, 06:33 PM
absolutely amazing.

he had incredible poise (which really, is what i was mostly looking at, since it's tough to judge other things when he's both playing with and against guys who weren't even going to make their respective teams).

he also has a fantastic arm. if/when he starts, it's unlikely you'll see the 30 yard ducks plummer regularly heaved up for walker to try to come back for.

i'll add more as i think of them.

Titans10
11-22-2006, 06:37 PM
The numbers speak for themselves

Cutler's preseason stats

40 of 62
561 yrds
comp- 64.5%
4 TD 1 INT
QB rating-108.3

Namy
11-22-2006, 06:41 PM
Looks like Cutler will be starting soon :D

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9823256
Wow. I guess I saw it coming... but I didnt realy expect it to happen... if u kno wat i mean =/

However... IF, by some weird chance, Plummer plays well and wins the game for us against KC... what will Shanny do then? This is THE make or break game for Plummer...

njx9
11-22-2006, 06:53 PM
i think mistake is done regardless of how he performs (i'm, of course, assuming he doesn't go out and throw 30/30 for 500 yards and 14 tds). if shanny really did have to dumb down the playbook that much, i can't imagine he'll have the patience to do that all year.

and from what i've heard on the radio, cutler has been thoroughly outplaying jake in practice.

Shane P. Hallam
11-22-2006, 08:22 PM
Need some fantasy help in a 20 team league.

Will Brandon Marshall get the same amount of looks he got last week? Is he healthy? Decent shot to get some yards?

njx9
11-22-2006, 08:51 PM
it's plummer throwing him the ball, so he'll likely catch one out of every three. not a bad play if you've got nothing else.

rcpbawler
11-22-2006, 09:07 PM
I must admit, I've been waiting on the move to Cutler for a few weeks now... but I'm not sure now is the time to come out with it.

I'm not sure how Plummer will perform knowing this could quite possibly be his last start as a Denver Bronco. I'm not saying he will go out there and try and lose or anything, but this can't sit right in his mind.

I don't know, maybe it's all a part of Shannahan's master plan.

Shane P. Hallam
11-22-2006, 09:14 PM
it's plummer throwing him the ball, so he'll likely catch one out of every three. not a bad play if you've got nothing else.

It's between him, Michael Clayton or Vincent Jackson.

njx9
11-22-2006, 09:16 PM
blech, those are awful options. flip a coin.

njx9
11-22-2006, 09:18 PM
I must admit, I've been waiting on the move to Cutler for a few weeks now... but I'm not sure now is the time to come out with it.

I'm not sure how Plummer will perform knowing this could quite possibly be his last start as a Denver Bronco. I'm not saying he will go out there and try and lose or anything, but this can't sit right in his mind.

I don't know, maybe it's all a part of Shannahan's master plan.

seeing how plummer's responded this year to it, it wouldn't surprise me to see him go out and have an absolutely awful game.

on another note, it was interesting hearing him (jake) compared mentally to brian griese. i think the pressure of playing QB here in denver screwed them both up pretty good.

Shane P. Hallam
11-22-2006, 09:27 PM
blech, those are awful options. flip a coin.

It's a 20 team league, and I have a pretty beast team behind them. If only Colston didn't get hurt, I'd be fine.

Namy
11-23-2006, 12:27 AM
it's plummer throwing him the ball, so he'll likely catch one out of every three. not a bad play if you've got nothing else.

It's between him, Michael Clayton or Vincent Jackson.
Vincent Jackson. Watched him when he played here at UNColorado and tore it up. V-Jackson also has the QB with the hot hand so I'd choose him... but honestly I wouldn't expect any of your options to give you many if any points consistently.

Stats
11-23-2006, 08:52 AM
I am so freakin' ready for the Cutler era to begin!

Flyboy
11-23-2006, 09:04 AM
it's plummer throwing him the ball, so he'll likely catch one out of every three. not a bad play if you've got nothing else.

It's between him, Michael Clayton or Vincent Jackson.

Go with Jackson.

njx9
11-23-2006, 10:09 AM
I am so freakin' ready for the Cutler era to begin!

word.

i'm just hoping ALL of the veterans on the team have been watching game film and fully realize that jake was either costing or nearly costing the team games.

Namy
11-23-2006, 02:11 PM
Wow Looking at our injury list, there are a lot of "questionable" key players such as ... Rod Smith, D-Willl, the Bells, K-Lang, Cooper Carlisle, and Brandan Marshall...

Hope they are feeling better... lol


Also on a side note... WHEW Thankfully I live in the Denver area and can watch the game lol.

njx9
11-23-2006, 10:39 PM
this team is, if it continues to play this way, out of the playoffs no matter who's behind center. that was just disgusting.

njx9
11-23-2006, 10:45 PM
i just wanted to reiterate: after that game, no one in the front seven should start next week. john lynch should NEVER play deep with cox at the line again. larry coyer should be banned from calling any defensive plays until the other team is in the red zone. ian gold should only come in on passing downs.

essentially, we should get 4 400 lb linemen to take up space and just let champ play the whole field, as he's the only guy who appears to consistently care about making a play.

i don't even know where to start on the running game and the offensive line.

Namy
11-23-2006, 11:23 PM
You know, as tempting as it is... I cant lay all the blame on Plummer. Our performance has just gone ******. It's pathetic...

Our Special teams again was horrific... our coverage is so pathetic... the starting averages of our opponents in comparison to us is just inexcusably bad. THIS MUST BE FIXED IMMEDIATELY!

Our defense is overrated. It's that simple. As much as it pains me to say it, it's the obvious truth. Indy and SD exposed us... but to allow KC to rush for 220+?? It's horrible.

Our offensive line is looking bad. Our rushing is looking even worse. It really has never been that "great" this whole season.

Our team is looking very shaky. I'm concerned... hopefully bringing in Cutler can reviatlize the team...

jmanz
11-24-2006, 01:50 PM
It's too bad I'm gonna have to hate Cutler since he's with the broncs. At any rate, he'll be a great QB for you guys.

ejruiz777
11-25-2006, 01:11 AM
Yes, the Chargers and the Colts lit our defense up. Quick question: does anyone deny that those are the two best offenses in the entire league, headed by the best players at QB, RB, TE and maybe even WR? Yes, the Chiefs ran all over us. By the way, I've heard that Larry Johnson is a pretty good RB and that they've been running the ball quite well in KC for a couple of years now. Yes, we went 0-3 in our last three games against those teams mentioned above, but they're all playoff caliber teams and we lost by an average of just 7 points.

My point is, why is it that every time the Broncos lose a game, all of their fans lose their heads?! Our team is still pretty good. They've had a chance to win against the best teams in the league and I see no reason for that to change.

Do you realize that our "pathetic" running game averages 4.5 ypc (6th best), 132.8 yards per game (7th best) and has scored 9 TDs (7th best)? Oh, and the o-line that gets so much grief has also only allowed 17 sacks (9th least). We run the ball well, we protect the QB (even if it is with our play calling) and we still play good D. I mean, there are only four teams that give up less points per game than the Broncos. Are we flawed? Yes, but who isn't. Can we still compete? Absolutely. Get a grip guys, that's all I'm saying.

Namy
11-25-2006, 03:07 PM
Yes, the Chargers and the Colts lit our defense up. Quick question: does anyone deny that those are the two best offenses in the entire league, headed by the best players at QB, RB, TE and maybe even WR? Yes, the Chiefs ran all over us. By the way, I've heard that Larry Johnson is a pretty good RB and that they've been running the ball quite well in KC for a couple of years now. Yes, we went 0-3 in our last three games against those teams mentioned above, but they're all playoff caliber teams and we lost by an average of just 7 points.

My point is, why is it that every time the Broncos lose a game, all of their fans lose their heads?! Our team is still pretty good. They've had a chance to win against the best teams in the league and I see no reason for that to change.

Do you realize that our "pathetic" running game averages 4.5 ypc (6th best), 132.8 yards per game (7th best) and has scored 9 TDs (7th best)? Oh, and the o-line that gets so much grief has also only allowed 17 sacks (9th least). We run the ball well, we protect the QB (even if it is with our play calling) and we still play good D. I mean, there are only four teams that give up less points per game than the Broncos. Are we flawed? Yes, but who isn't. Can we still compete? Absolutely. Get a grip guys, that's all I'm saying.
Are you kidding me? All those great stats were padded by playing pathetic teams. Are we still a playoff team? Sure... but tha'ts not good enough for me. We made it to the AFCC last season with a home field advantage... we had a vaunted defense at the beginning of the season... if you can't tell that the Broncos are slowly collapsing then maybe we're not watching the same games...

1. Loss to St. Louis: W/E, I didn't even watch this game so I can't really give much analysis here... but the Rams aren't a very good team and we let them beat us by scoring only field goals.

2. Indy: This is THEe team that our defense was supposed to beat. Bringing in the Browns DLine? Drafting DWill and Foxworth? Bringing back Ian Gold? Our whole defense was composed as a direct result of our embarass9ing losses to the Colts. While we stayed competitive, I would've been MUCH happier if we would've lost in a defensive game. Instead, while our offense scored on their piss poor defense, Manning shredded our highly touted defense as if it were nothing. At that point we held opponents to the least amt of ppg... but the Colts game clearly indicated that our defense was overrated and it was only so good b/c we played teams like the Browns, Raiders, Ravens, etc.

3. San Diego: Where to start... in the RECENT PAST... LT averaged about 60 yards per game against us at Invesco Field. San Diego hardly ever wins in Denver. Despite our loss to Indy, I gave our defense another chance to stop the Chargers... after a 17 point lead in the middle of the third, we let them blow us out 28-3 in 1 1/2 quarters? Are you kidding me?

4. KC: LJ is good, and so is there running game. Plus this was a rivalry game. I had us pinned down for a loss anyways, but to allow them to rush for 225+yds and us like... wat 30 yards rushing? That's pathetic. I'm surprised it was only a 19-10 loss really.

So basdically...

Our defense can stop offenses that aren't worth a damn but seem to completely blow it against playoff caliber teams? That's not good =/

Our offense may have good rushing statistics but if you watch the games you should know that it's just not hte same as it used to be. We can't move the chains anymore and are always plagued by third and longs.

I still think we will make the playoffs. But our chances aren't good to win any games. Honestly, we have shown that while we can compete, we ALWAYS come up short. That's just not enough in the playoffs.

njx9
11-25-2006, 05:07 PM
Yes, the Chargers and the Colts lit our defense up. Quick question: does anyone deny that those are the two best offenses in the entire league, headed by the best players at QB, RB, TE and maybe even WR? Yes, the Chiefs ran all over us. By the way, I've heard that Larry Johnson is a pretty good RB and that they've been running the ball quite well in KC for a couple of years now. Yes, we went 0-3 in our last three games against those teams mentioned above, but they're all playoff caliber teams and we lost by an average of just 7 points.

My point is, why is it that every time the Broncos lose a game, all of their fans lose their heads?! Our team is still pretty good. They've had a chance to win against the best teams in the league and I see no reason for that to change.

Do you realize that our "pathetic" running game averages 4.5 ypc (6th best), 132.8 yards per game (7th best) and has scored 9 TDs (7th best)? Oh, and the o-line that gets so much grief has also only allowed 17 sacks (9th least). We run the ball well, we protect the QB (even if it is with our play calling) and we still play good D. I mean, there are only four teams that give up less points per game than the Broncos. Are we flawed? Yes, but who isn't. Can we still compete? Absolutely. Get a grip guys, that's all I'm saying.

all valid points if you hadn't actually watched the last three games. for instance, against KC, we couldn't tackle LJ. it wasn't even that he was just playing well, there were at least two plays when 4+ guys missed tackles. that's not LJ's talent so much as it was our complete inability to execute.

on special teams, we are absolutely awful. i don't think there's any way that you can convince me it's not as bad as it looks. it's usually much worse. we can't cover a kick off, we can't return a kick off, our players make bonehead plays (witness cecil sapp fielding the ball at the 1). again, this is not an indicator of a team that will even compete in the playoffs.

our offense has gotten worse and worse over the season. how are you possibly going to excuse our worst rushing output in years last week? or the way the running game has simply failed to help denver hold onto the ball in critical situations? i give jake a lot of grief for not ever converting 3rd downs, but on the flip side, the running game should NOT be putting him into so many third and long situations. playoffs teams simply don't have as many third and longs as we've had lately.

and again, great, they're amazing offenses. what do you think we'd face if we made the playoffs? the cleveland browns again?

i don't recall us doing much of anything for jake last week. keep in mind that, as many dumb plays as he may make after the fact, he avoids a LOT of sacks simply by being mobile. matt lepsis erik pears is not. our right tackle situation has just been weak this year.

denver has all the talent to turn it around, but most of thing i see are lack of execution and poor coaching (pointing specifically to the defense). if those get turned on again, anything's possible, but from the last three weeks, broncos fans have a good reason to be a bit pessimistic.

ejruiz777
11-25-2006, 06:54 PM
So far we're 3-3 against likely AFC playoffs teams. Our three losses have come to SD, KC and Indy by an average of just under 7 points. Our three wins have come over NE, KC and Baltimore by an average of just over 7 points. Sure, it's looked worse than that, but the only stats that truly matter are wins, loses and the score. If the season ended today we'd be in the playoffs with those same teams listed above and we'd still have a shot at beating every single one of them, just as we did the first time around. The only teams that could change that are Jacksonville and Cincinnati, two teams that are just as flawed as we are. We're making the playoffs and, when we do, we'll make some noise. All of this doomsday talk is just a bit annoying. The only change that I think we can make at this point would be to bench Plummer in favor of Cutler in the hopes of creating the same sort of spark that Dallas got from their new QB.

njx9
11-26-2006, 08:51 PM
i don't think anyone believes this team doesn't have a chance. in fact, i even JUST said they have the talent. but you're absolutely insane if you think we can play as poorly as we have recently the rest of the season and still beat anyone in the playoffs, let alone even make it that far.

ejruiz777
11-27-2006, 01:57 AM
Now that Cutler is apparently our starting QB, I'd like to take this oportunity to turn the corner, change the topic and hopefully the tone of this thread. It's time to let og of the past and embrace the future. With that in mind, this sort of QB change has resulted in a positive bump for pretty much every team that's tried it this season. All the players seem to step it up when they see their coach is doing it in time to salvage the season instead of simply tanking it. This is what I'm looking for from the Broncos at this point.

Our remaining schedule is pretty brutal, with the Arizona game being the only thing close to a guaranteed win. If we're still in the playoff hunt and the 49ers are not by the time that last week of the regular season comes around (both of which I think will be true) I think that one is in the bag as well. Beating Cincy would be a huge win as far as a potential wildcard is concerned and winning in San Diego, while improbable, could vault us back into contention in the division. The Seattle game is looking tougher and tougher as they get healthy and we break in a new QB, but it's at home and both Hasselbeck and Alaexander should be rusty.

If you're a pessimist, it's easy to think we'll go 1-4 in those last five and finish up at .500. If you're an optimist like me, you see us going 3-2 and sneaking into the playoffs with some momentum. Maybe it will take a solid performance against the Seahawks (or even a win) to make believers out of the rest of you, but I'm hopeful. I mean, what's the point of being a fan if you're not hopeful?

Namy
11-27-2006, 06:44 PM
If the Broncos get back into the shape they were before they lost to the Chargers, we can easily go 4-1. In fact, I do not underestimate us. We have the TALENT to go 5-0. In my opnion, we are more talented than the Chargers, Bengals, Seahawks, 49ers, and Cardinals.

However, aside from that talent, in the pass week, after assessment, it's clear that penalties, mental lapses in special teams coverage, poor tackling, struggling running game, and boneheaded QB play brought us down against SD and KC (and those losses were still an avg of a little over one TD). These are all problems that we are now facing but werre not problems before we lost to SD.. which basically means all of these problems are fixable. Sorry if I sounded "pessimistic" earlier, it's just my usual reaction right after a loss...

I really hope Cutler brings in the spark. THere is no question he has the talent. In the preseason, we also saw that he had the poise. If he can come in with confidence and efficiency (which is all that is really asked for), with the talent we have on both sides of the ball, we can win out our schedule. Chargers are good, but we can beat them... if our offense was able to just move the chains score a few FGs at least and run out more clock, it would've rested our defense more too and we would've easily won. The Cowboys responded well to a QB change, and hopefully so will this Broncos team.

I look forward to playing against the Seahawks. But trust me, with 10 days to practice for the Seahawks, I assure you that the Broncos will not let anyone rush on them like KC and SD did again.

ejruiz777
11-28-2006, 03:01 AM
Alexander was UNGODLY tonight on MNF. I really hope this long week of practice and preparation, along with a team-wide spark due to the QB change, will correct the problems that let KC and, to a lesser and more forgivable extent, SD run all over us. Hasselback looked terrible, but those spread sets are going to put a lot of stress on our DBs in pass coverage and on the front seven as they try to slow Alexander down. The Pack scored plenty and they left even more points on the field, so an efficient performance by our offense should yield a solid output. I see this one being another shootout, which concerns me because we haven't won one of those all year. That said, I still have faith. So long as we play well, I think we can pull a playoff spot out of a hat with enough momentum to be able to surprise some people then. Let's Go Broncos!

The Fat Kid
11-28-2006, 10:20 PM
let the trash talking begin. is tatum set to come back yet?

smittyjs
11-28-2006, 10:25 PM
Cutler..................... 8) :D

M
11-28-2006, 11:18 PM
Does anyone remember what exactly the trade with Washington was for this years draft picks. I believe it was part of the Lelie to Atlanta, Duckett to Washington and Washington to Denver was . . . Thanks I am curious to look ahead.

njx9
11-29-2006, 12:27 AM
Does anyone remember what exactly the trade with Washington was for this years draft picks. I believe it was part of the Lelie to Atlanta, Duckett to Washington and Washington to Denver was . . . Thanks I am curious to look ahead.

i believe chris has quoted it to denver and washington swap 1sts if both make the playoffs, if washington doesn't (or i believe if we don't) we get their third this year. i believe either way we get their 4th next year. and chris alluded to some situations where we wouldn't get their third this year, but i can't imagine what those would be.

njx9
11-29-2006, 12:28 AM
let the trash talking begin. is tatum set to come back yet?

doubtful, he'll probably step outside and get cold and then be inactivated.

Chris
11-29-2006, 02:00 PM
The Broncos no matter WHAT NOW, are getting the Redskins 3rd rounder. And it's likely they'll get the 2008 Fourth-Rounder as well.

Either a third and a fourth; or just a third.

njx9
11-29-2006, 02:02 PM
The Broncos no matter WHAT NOW, are getting the Redskins 3rd rounder. And it's likely they'll get the 2008 Fourth-Rounder as well.

Either a third and a fourth; or just a third.

how do we miss the 4th?

Chris
11-29-2006, 02:03 PM
Probably if the Redskins finish in the bottom 3 teams in the league where the value is so high we don't need the extra pick to compensate for the "250" value points we'll be getting.

njx9
11-29-2006, 02:09 PM
gotcha.

Chris
11-29-2006, 02:11 PM
All I have to say is Yay for Cutlah.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
11-29-2006, 10:32 PM
i'm excited to have Cutler playing. i still think he will be better than Young and Leinart. i might eat my words, but i stick with what i've thought from the start, regardless of how those 2 are playing

best of luck

ejruiz777
11-29-2006, 11:35 PM
I'm trying not to get too excited about Cutler's first start, but I'm just so happy that he's starting in place of Jake that it's getting harder as game time inches closer.

Honestly, I'm not expecting a win against the Seahawks, but I am expecting a better performance from the team than what we've all seen these past few weeks. If everyone plays better, then I'll hold out hope for the rest of the season. If the team looks as flat as it has been recently, then (no matter how well Cutler plays) I don't like our playoff chances.

Namy
11-29-2006, 11:57 PM
I think our team will respond well to Cutler.

Also, do u think Plummer will stay as a backup to continue to help Cutler out? Or if he does leave (which is more prpobable), where will he go do u thinK?

njx9
11-30-2006, 08:42 AM
i hope, for his sake, that he's gone after this season. he deserves a chance to start someplace else.

Chris
11-30-2006, 11:08 AM
Trading him would count for about 6-7 million against our cap; his value wouldn't even be high, and a fourth or fifth-rounder *which at best is what we'd get* isn't worth that hit.

Release him, take the 2 million dollar hit.

M
12-01-2006, 12:42 AM
Trade Plummer to Washington - Snyder makes terrible deals that just gives away draft picks for the last three years to the Broncos - make it four for four!

Hope springs eternal.

ejruiz777
12-01-2006, 02:26 AM
Plummer will be either the Broncos back-up or a place holder for another team that's not quite ready to compete yet next year. I honestly don't see any teams that would start him, so my money's on his being in a Broncos uniform next season. He'd be a nice back-up for another year and then he walks as a free agent, right?

A-Dub4President
12-01-2006, 03:11 AM
One of the Arizona papers has reported that Jake would like to end his career back in the valley backing up Leinart.

njx9
12-01-2006, 09:09 AM
i have a tough time believing jake wants to back anyone up right now.

additionally, i'd just as soon he gets that chance, rather than having to ride the bench here for a year. the dude, whatever i've thought of his actual play (and chris and namy have probably heard it from me enough), played at 100% every single play. if it costs $2 million, i'd just as soon see him get a chance someplace else.

Chris
12-01-2006, 02:09 PM
One of the Arizona papers has reported that Jake would like to end his career back in the valley backing up Leinart.

We'll take ya first-rounder for him.

Namy
12-01-2006, 05:40 PM
While I hated Plummer's guts when he was starter, I apprecaite his effort and winning percentage thus far, and I'd like to see him have an opportunity to start somewhere else. In retrospect, I have sympathy on him. Even though he screwed up, the dude played under so much pressure and criticism (and had a very good winning %). I think he can be a suitable starter someplace else... he just wasnt a SHannahan type of QB, that's all.

draftguru151
12-01-2006, 10:39 PM
http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/nfl/draft06/photos/200/9296.jpg

<3.

Chris
12-02-2006, 02:33 PM
It's interesting, if the Broncos lost today and some 6-5 teams and 7-4 teams won. . . we could go from picking #27 to as high as #18. . . NUTS.

elway777
12-03-2006, 11:22 AM
Excited and nervous for Cutlers debut,what should we (broncos fans) be expecting from Jay?

Namy
12-03-2006, 11:14 PM
I guess we all had our expectations too high thinking that Jay could come in as a rookie and immediately show that he was superior to Plummer. However, I was looking for some flashes of brilliance, but I didn't see much of that either. But, I'll be patient and withold judgment. So this game really sickens me. Not only is it our third loss in a row, it's also ouir third home loss. What gives? We were, again, terrible on all three aspects of the game...

Offense: Tatum Bell was our only bright spot before he got injured. His rushing was phenomenal in the first half. However, Mike Bell's and Rod Smith's fumbles really killed us. Rookie mistakes by Cutler such as that horrible INT (eerily similar to wat Jake would do), really killed us. When a good home team loses, it's usualy b/c of turnovers, and that was clearly the case.

Defense: Not too bad in the first half, but the defense still wasn't even that great in the first half. The Seahawks offense was horrible first half... more than our defense being good. Also, in the second half, our defense is just awful. You're right NJX, get rid of Coyer NOW. Also, we need to fix our DLine first round. It's beyond pathetic... great rushing D, but in critical moments on third downs in the fourth quarter, our DLine was nonexistant and it really killed us.

Special Teams: HORRIBLE. Like I mentioned a ways back. Losing Sauerbrun will hurt us. Ernster sucks. When he kicks off, the ball reaches the five yard line. Every other kicker that kicks at mile high at least kicks the ball five yards into the endzone. Also, our ST coverage needs to learn to tacke. It's absotuiltely painful to watch. Also, get rid of DWill as a returner. He's jsut awful. Every other game he commits a stupid fumble on ST.

M
12-04-2006, 12:30 AM
I thought he was fine. Made good reads as to when to take ball and run out of bounds versus throw into good or double coverage. Obviously the interception was a mistake but unlike Plummer, Jake was in his seventh year, Cutler was in first game.

Good to see Marshall take on the contact after the catch. I think Marshall will be a solid WR after the offseason to add some more bulk. If he will go over the middle, he will have a career here in Denver. It will be interesting to see how the chemistry between all the backups works (Cutler, Marshall, and second round tight end). It is amazing how many of us had Marshall in our mocks - most in third round not 4th round.

He does have visibly more speed on the ball, and a nice release when he plants, squares shoulders and steps into throw. Good mechanics for the most part but needs to square up to be more accurate.

Thought it was respectfull of Shanahan to jump on the sword after the game at take blame for not putting calls in for Cutler. Not true but respect when Shanahan does that.

Not sure we will make playoffs but, like having a core of good players. I cointinue to wonder why Lynch is out on the field in coverage and our other safety is playing the run? Lynch is the one player I would most like to see us replace this year as he is a liability with his speed as WRs just run by him (see touchdown and without even bumping the guy he was 10 yards behind reciever 30 yards down the field) He needs to go and a 1st rounder on Safety would be my choice for now - think LSU in 1st round or a few good second rounders will be available.

rickscott
12-04-2006, 04:14 AM
I know Jake drove you guys crazy but as a Bengal fan, I feel you had a better chance at the playoffs with Jake rather than Jay. Rookies are going to have some real bad games and I almost see it like throwing in the towel by putting Jay out there. We'll see. I know the Bengals game with you worries me but I look at it as a must win to get us in the playoffs.

njx9
12-04-2006, 08:15 AM
I know Jake drove you guys crazy but as a Bengal fan, I feel you had a better chance at the playoffs with Jake rather than Jay. Rookies are going to have some real bad games and I almost see it like throwing in the towel by putting Jay out there. We'll see. I know the Bengals game with you worries me but I look at it as a must win to get us in the playoffs.

throwing in the towel? what on earth has given you the impression that, at any point this season, jake played significantly better than jay just did? the point was, in a way, that jay couldn't be much worse, and that all things being equal, it was better to get cutler some snaps. keep in mind that jay had nothing to do with our first consecutive losses in who knows how long.

njx9
12-05-2006, 08:33 AM
bump

draftguru151
12-05-2006, 08:34 AM
bump

Post booster.

Who is Jay gonna tear up this week (who are you guys playing)?

Chris
12-05-2006, 01:25 PM
If the Broncos were to draft today, these would be our selections. . .

Broncos Draft Selections

Round One: #23 Overall
Round Two: #55 Overall
Round Three: #71 Overall [Selection Via Redskins]
Round Three: #87 Overall
Round Five: #151 Overall
Round Six: #183 Overall
Round Seven: #215 Overall

Total Value Points: 1554

draftguru151
12-05-2006, 04:40 PM
Don't you get the Redskins 4th too?

Chris
12-05-2006, 04:47 PM
Don't you get the Redskins 4th too?

In 2008.

Addict
12-05-2006, 04:49 PM
I thought Cutler played well... He'll be a good QB for the Broncos.

I do doubt they'll go far into the playoffs THIS year (he IS just a rookie), but Cutler will be just fine...

njx9
12-05-2006, 05:13 PM
us going to the playoffs has nothing to do with jay cutler and everything to do with atrocious defensive play-calling and horrible offensive line and special teams play.

and that all assumes that the fumbles last week were an aberration.

Namy
12-05-2006, 08:13 PM
So Elway approves of Cutler. I think Cutler was just nervous. His passes were wobbly and short/overthrown. We saw that he can make those throws tho so I think once he adapts to the game a bit more he'll be great. My only concern is that now he's gonna go against the Chargers....

Btw, what does QFT mean?

njx9
12-05-2006, 08:37 PM
quoted for truth.

i think jay got the shaft, in getting thrown in with a terrible offensive line against two good defenses with excellent pass rushers. he won't look good this week either, imo, but at least we have arizona and san francisco on the schedule to help him get into a groove before next year.

Chris
12-07-2006, 06:20 PM
Darren McFadden loves da Broncos.

Lose all games in 2008; grab him. Weeewtt.

njx9
12-07-2006, 06:27 PM
meh, we should just pull a reverse-redskins, since it seems like there's little to no chance we'll address o-line or defensive line in the first this year. just trade our first for someone's next year so that we'll have the ammo to move up and get him or slaton.

Namy
12-07-2006, 08:43 PM
meh, we should just pull a reverse-redskins, since it seems like there's little to no chance we'll address o-line or defensive line in the first this year. just trade our first for someone's next year so that we'll have the ammo to move up and get him or slaton.
As good as Slaton and McFadden are (I wouldn't mind getting them), I think Bell is really turning it around. His improvement has been great this season. His ability to stay injury free is a concern, but Mike Bell is showing that he is a decent backup (he has a minor fumbling problem, but it's more of a rookie problem imo than his own problem). I think our aging OL is a huge need and obviously getting a big time pass rushing DL would help.

One thing funny I noticed is that the Broncos love making teams one dimensional. They love stopping the run and forcing them to pass. Unfortunately, our pass rush isn't worth a damn in the second half and they proceed to kill us with the one dimension we force them to use.

njx9
12-07-2006, 10:06 PM
sure, and i like bell a lot when he's 100%. i just have so little trust right now that he will be all year.

and i think we're in agreement in bro9ncoland in general, that we have to get help on both lines or there are some ugly seasons ahead of us. it hink it's also intersting that losing lepsis made a HUGE difference in the play of our line. it seemed like, early in the year, guys (by which i mean foster) were getting beat occasionally (albeit at inopportune moments). now they seem to get beat every time we throw the ball.

Chris
12-08-2006, 02:59 PM
With the injuries to the offensive line, the age. . . also the injuries to the defensive line and the age; if the Broncos don't address those in round one, they're dumb. Safety would classify as a huge need now too, injuries. . . and age.

njx9
12-08-2006, 03:59 PM
i think so, but with cox playing more often, i think they give him a chance before they draft anyone for mroe than depth.

Chris
12-08-2006, 06:45 PM
i think so, but with cox playing more often, i think they give him a chance before they draft anyone for mroe than depth.

Ferguson is old and injured and Lynch is just plain old.

Even though I think Zbikowski is overrated, if he was there in the second or with our first third, take him. He can be a returner too and have an impact on several different levels.

Namy
12-09-2006, 02:08 PM
We need a real good return man... guys like Charlie Adams, DWill, Clark, and whoevers just aren't cutting it. They suck. Think how much better we could've been w/Devin Hester... (not being sarcastic either)

Stats
12-09-2006, 08:50 PM
Next year I want us taking Marshawn Lynch, O-Line, and a safety.

Marshawn Lynch is comparable to Laurence Maroney imo and would be a stud in our offense(or in anyone's).

Chris
12-10-2006, 06:31 PM
Darrent Williams has been just bad.

Get a new CB.

Namy
12-10-2006, 06:38 PM
yup. DWill has been horrible unfortunately. Ever since the Colts game, it seems like he has just diminished more and more.

That 3rd qtr was good enough for me tho. I didn't really expect to win, but to see some of Cutler's throws was really good. If we can get him some better protection, he will be very solid next year. but, we must address the lines. Our 4th qtr D is just pathetic, and our OLine has been really hurting lately w/o Lepsis.

njx9
12-10-2006, 10:17 PM
i think williams could still be a very good nickel guy, but i think he's shown, the last several games, that he's just either not good enough or not ready to be a starting guy. unfortunately, foxworth hasn't, imo, looked any better.

in terms of zbikowski, i'm just not sold. from what i've seen, he's been abysmal in coverage (though, because i hate notre dame, i can't say i've seen more than a few minutes of a couple of games).

i'd love lynch, but i think tatum's great if he's actually healthy. i dunno, i go back and forth there.

either way, o-line seems like our #1 need. two of cutler's fumbles were almost entirely on pears, and while he was blocking merriman, i'd still hope he could give jay at least 4 full seconds. then again, it was carlisle getting run over on the 4th down play.

i'm just so disappointed in this season right now. between our play-calling on both sides of the ball, jake playing like a rookie and jay getting thrown in against two great pass rushing defenses immediately, our o-line being unable to block a pee-wee team... one would hope that missing the playoffs motivates shanny a bit and some heads roll in the coaching ranks. anyone know who the hell is coaching our special teams? the guy should be holding a cardboard sign on colfax right now. awful. coyer should, until today, have had his play-calling privileges revoked. and really, today, they should've been revoked in the first half.

i guess lastly, to re-harp on something i think everyone's said at least five times this year, we need someone who can return a kick. pony up some cash and sign someone proven, since i think it's become apparent that we have absolutely terrible luck drafting people for the spot (o'neal, middlebrooks, who knows how many 4th round and up guys who never made it).

smittyjs
12-10-2006, 10:19 PM
they need to call more rollout passes for Cutler.

njx9
12-10-2006, 10:22 PM
they need to call more rollout passes for Cutler.

i'd agree if i thought our o-line was capable of giving him enough time to throw on them.

Namy
12-10-2006, 11:09 PM
Eh.. i hate the Chargers. They commenced the fall of the Broncos by beating us in Invesco... a once promising 7-2 start crumbled to 7-6. However, I think the next season holds promise. We just got unlucky with injuries imo. As long as we get a good ST unit and draft not so stupidly, we will be in good position to take the division nxt year. IMO, the Chargers are overrated. Sure, they beat us pretty badly, but they weren't that spectacular.

Chris
12-11-2006, 01:24 PM
What's the deal on Kia?

njx9
12-11-2006, 07:46 PM
kia??

j-croz
12-12-2006, 11:54 AM
Anyone know what the Broncos cap situation is like heading into this offseason? Are they going to have money to spend, or are they gonna have to shed some salary to stay within the cap?

njx9
12-12-2006, 03:07 PM
iirc, the cap should go up a good bit this offseason, and i believe that we're doing pretty well as of right now.

Chris
12-13-2006, 11:14 AM
Don't forget Walker's and Bailey's contracts escalate. ;)

njx9
12-13-2006, 03:48 PM
by NFLPA, bailey's escalated this season from 540k to 5.5m. it should stay the same till 08 when it jumps to 7.5m. walker's should drop to 600k next year, though he'll probably want a raise.

i know NFLPA is notorous for not accurately counting various bonuses and incentives, but at base, there shouldn't be a big difference.

steelcrew43
12-13-2006, 11:11 PM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f212/steelcrew43/desean_broncos.jpg

njx9
12-14-2006, 12:01 AM
looks nice, but i don't really want anything to do with a receiver drafted in the first round.

M
12-14-2006, 12:08 AM
Because it NEVER is too early to look ahead to the draft I would suggest the following order of picks:

1/2 Running Back / Safety

2/1 Safety / Running Back

3 DE


I break it this way because obviously, we need to see who is available. I think Lynch or Bush (it doesn't hurt to dream as Peterson will be gone) would be very successful in our system and I am convinced (evey year he proves it correct) that Tatum cannot handle the number 1 spot physically as he breaks down. Remember how sucessful he was coming out late in games as a change of pace back with his speed and fresh legs after starting back has pounded the line for first half. That is Tatums role and he does it well, just accept it and deal with it. Remember Shanahan said he would have taken Maroney if he did not trade up last year. I know he does not take a number 1 round pick on a back but, it is time for a change as he sees what a number 1 back can do to his defense (what would LT or LJ be like behind this offense even with this line).

I believe that Safety is actually a position with some depth this year in the draft (two good juniors will come out Reggie Nelson, Florida and Tom Zbikowski, Notre Dame and Michael Griffin from Texas - Griffin who at the combine could unfortunatly really rise due to his speed and size) so you may get a quality safety in second round, however, you may have to use first round pick to get a safety capable of starting day 1 (dream LSU but more likely think Florida or Texas). I like John Lynch as a player and a person however, he is nothing but a liability on pass defense, basically he has been good for 10 points in the last 4 games. That is terrible. Part of Williams coverage problems is that Lynch has to play 7 yards deeper than he should be playing to offset his lack of speed when in a zone. This leaves a gap between Williams and Lynch that is getting exploited. One on one, Lynch is beat within 10 yards off the line. How many games have you seen Lynch in the endzone running behind the guy the just caught teh touchdown. If you were gameplanning against the Broncos would you honestly not try to get Lynch matched up one on one with any of you receivers a few times a game and take your shot. Unfortunatly his leadership will be missed but it would allow Williams to play more bump and run and actually have support in the zone coverages.

We need both of these issues fixed.

O line needs help but more pressing needs for top two rounds and DL is always a problem. When a 5 10 guy is leading your team in sacks you are running on gimmick defensive line play, with no push. Either a DT or a DE is a necessity this year and will be done in the first three rounds (Marcus Thomas, DT, Florida in the 3rd would be a great player who hopefully wont be drinking grey goose during the scrimmage). Gold is also getting older but we cannot affort to replace him just yet.

Thoughts anyone?

njx9
12-14-2006, 09:28 AM
i'd replace S in 1/2 with OT. i just don't see how this team can survive with no pass protection for another season. we desperately need help on the line, either to keep foster off the field or in case lepsis is unable to come back at 100%. I think with cox and perhaps with foxworth playing the position during training camp, our safety situation could be ok. and really, mroe to the point, as long as coyer is coaching the defense, lynch will continue to be given coverage responsibilities and nick ferguson will likely continue to suck at just about anything involving defense.

Chris
12-16-2006, 12:39 PM
Bumpssssss.

Namy
12-16-2006, 05:09 PM
We so need trhese next three games. Even tho we'd get destroyed in the playoffs, just that glimmer of hope is enough to try to make it.. plus, it'd be good to give Cutler the taste of an NFL playoff system. I'm kinda worried about Cardinals game tho. We don't do well under warm weather it seems like (altho it is in a dome), plus, I'm worried about D-Will vs. Fitzgerald. If our pressure is weak again, we lose again (thank god that the Cardinals OLine may be more pathetic than our DLine).

draftguru151
12-17-2006, 07:22 PM
How did Jay look? I saw that one beautiful bomb. Wow.

Stats
12-17-2006, 08:23 PM
My goodness that was the best passing display I've seen for Denver in a long time.

Namy
12-18-2006, 01:04 AM
Finally... :D

Jimmy
12-18-2006, 05:58 AM
1/2 Running Back / Safety

2/1 Safety / Running Back

3 DE

what about RT? Foster sucks. And i think were set with pears at lt.
but #1 priority goes to safety, cause our pass defense sucks two thirds of the field every play. we need a taller corner still, i miss walls.

njx9
12-18-2006, 08:46 AM
yippee, we won.

we would've lost that game to any marginally competent team in the nfl. how in the hell do we manage to fumble every three plays? why can't our o-line block anyone? jimmy, do you honestly think we're "set" with pears? i'd like to recommend glasses. blech.

it's not all gloom and doom in nj-land, but we just haven't looked good enough since... well... last season. i don't feel like there's a single game in which the entire team played like it wanted to win a game this year. and as much as i understand about getting jay playoff reps, i just can't imagine it will help when any team we play should absolutely dominate us. i'm so over this season.

Namy
12-18-2006, 01:20 PM
yippee, we won.

we would've lost that game to any marginally competent team in the nfl. how in the hell do we manage to fumble every three plays? why can't our o-line block anyone? jimmy, do you honestly think we're "set" with pears? i'd like to recommend glasses. blech.

it's not all gloom and doom in nj-land, but we just haven't looked good enough since... well... last season. i don't feel like there's a single game in which the entire team played like it wanted to win a game this year. and as much as i understand about getting jay playoff reps, i just can't imagine it will help when any team we play should absolutely dominate us. i'm so over this season.
Eh. You never know. We still have 2 games left against Cincy and SF. Those are winnable games. Cincy has been looking good, but they may have a hangover coming into Invesco after facing the Colts. If we can win the next two (which is a must to go to the palyoffs), we will have some momentum so who knows.. momentum is so important in the playoffs. If we go in the playoffs, we will likely draw Baltimore/Indy/NE. I think Baltimore and NE are teams we can beat. I think we can beat SD as well... just not Indy lol.

eacantdraft
12-18-2006, 01:50 PM
yippee, we won.

we would've lost that game to any marginally competent team in the nfl. how in the hell do we manage to fumble every three plays? why can't our o-line block anyone? jimmy, do you honestly think we're "set" with pears? i'd like to recommend glasses. blech.

it's not all gloom and doom in nj-land, but we just haven't looked good enough since... well... last season. i don't feel like there's a single game in which the entire team played like it wanted to win a game this year. and as much as i understand about getting jay playoff reps, i just can't imagine it will help when any team we play should absolutely dominate us. i'm so over this season.
Eh. You never know. We still have 2 games left against Cincy and SF. Those are winnable games. Cincy has been looking good, but they may have a hangover coming into Invesco after facing the Colts. If we can win the next two (which is a must to go to the palyoffs), we will have some momentum so who knows.. momentum is so important in the playoffs. If we go in the playoffs, we will likely draw Baltimore/Indy/NE. I think Baltimore and NE are teams we can beat. I think we can beat SD as well... just not Indy lol.

The Broncos always match up well against New England. They don't do well against the Colts. Yet the Patriots usually do well against the Colts. Funny way matchups in sports go.

njx9
12-18-2006, 03:40 PM
yippee, we won.

we would've lost that game to any marginally competent team in the nfl. how in the hell do we manage to fumble every three plays? why can't our o-line block anyone? jimmy, do you honestly think we're "set" with pears? i'd like to recommend glasses. blech.

it's not all gloom and doom in nj-land, but we just haven't looked good enough since... well... last season. i don't feel like there's a single game in which the entire team played like it wanted to win a game this year. and as much as i understand about getting jay playoff reps, i just can't imagine it will help when any team we play should absolutely dominate us. i'm so over this season.
Eh. You never know. We still have 2 games left against Cincy and SF. Those are winnable games. Cincy has been looking good, but they may have a hangover coming into Invesco after facing the Colts. If we can win the next two (which is a must to go to the palyoffs), we will have some momentum so who knows.. momentum is so important in the playoffs. If we go in the playoffs, we will likely draw Baltimore/Indy/NE. I think Baltimore and NE are teams we can beat. I think we can beat SD as well... just not Indy lol.

- larry coyer will lose any tough playoff game just like he's lost several tough regular season games.

- our offensive line couldn't stop a tub of jello from getting a sack.

- quincy morgan has, hopefully, solved one of our problems, but it'll take more than one week to convince me.

- the offense will find at least 16 different ways to fumble.

those four things all have to drastically change (or remain changed) before we can even think about beating a single team in the playoffs, let alone winning the super bowl. i just don't see it.

Namy
12-18-2006, 05:02 PM
yippee, we won.

we would've lost that game to any marginally competent team in the nfl. how in the hell do we manage to fumble every three plays? why can't our o-line block anyone? jimmy, do you honestly think we're "set" with pears? i'd like to recommend glasses. blech.

it's not all gloom and doom in nj-land, but we just haven't looked good enough since... well... last season. i don't feel like there's a single game in which the entire team played like it wanted to win a game this year. and as much as i understand about getting jay playoff reps, i just can't imagine it will help when any team we play should absolutely dominate us. i'm so over this season.
Eh. You never know. We still have 2 games left against Cincy and SF. Those are winnable games. Cincy has been looking good, but they may have a hangover coming into Invesco after facing the Colts. If we can win the next two (which is a must to go to the palyoffs), we will have some momentum so who knows.. momentum is so important in the playoffs. If we go in the playoffs, we will likely draw Baltimore/Indy/NE. I think Baltimore and NE are teams we can beat. I think we can beat SD as well... just not Indy lol.

- larry coyer will lose any tough playoff game just like he's lost several tough regular season games.

- our offensive line couldn't stop a tub of jello from getting a sack.

- quincy morgan has, hopefully, solved one of our problems, but it'll take more than one week to convince me.

- the offense will find at least 16 different ways to fumble.

those four things all have to drastically change (or remain changed) before we can even think about beating a single team in the playoffs, let alone winning the super bowl. i just don't see it.
Eh. I'm not thinking about the Superbowl, cuz it's not going to happen. I just want to see Cutler get some playoff reps and am saying that I think we can actually do alright. We match up well w/some of the teams believe it or not, and if Cutler's performance continues to escalate, who knows, hojpefully it can spark our entire team to play better. We always match up well against the Patriots. We beat the Ravens this season w/Plummer so it's not beyond comprehension to beat them again. We have a lot of prpoblems, but so do a lot of other teams.

-Coyer sucks and needs to go, but we have the talent on defense to overcome some of his stupidies

-O-Line is a concern, but if Jay can spread the defense jsut a little more as he progresses it'll alleviate a lot of pressure off the O-Line.

-Not sure about Morgan either.

-Fumbling has been a unique problem for us. However, I expect Shanny to drill this into our RB's heads... he did bench T-Bell for quite awhile after his fumble. I'm sure he gets it now. Better sooner than later.

njx9
12-18-2006, 05:26 PM
meh, then maybe it's just ideological differences. getting jay reps would be nice, but in all honesty, i just don't care about getting to the playoffs anymore. we've done it so often lately, that it's just not a big deal. if we're not going to win the super bowl, i'd just as soon miss the playoffs and get some heads rolling.

keep in mind i'm not rooting against the broncos at all, but i'm just not one of the "getting there is better than nothing" people. i want to get there and win.

it's too bad, imo, that shanny knows that he's here till he wants out. i think he's gotten too comfortable since elway left and needs a bit of a shake-down (not to get fired, i don't believe there's anyone better for the team right now).

Namy
12-18-2006, 05:56 PM
True. but I don't think Shanny is relaxing too much... we all know that if Shanny can win one more SB, he's a lock for the hall of fame. He wants that SB for that reason AT LEAST. Also, I usually would agree that I don't want to go to the playoffs if we don't win, but gikving Jay a taste of playoff intensity is an important experience even if he sucks it up.

For example: Big Ben. He sucked against the Jets and Patriots his first playoffs, but absolutely stunned the Colts, us, and the Seahawks in his second time around. For that reason alone, I want Cutler to experience the playoffs so that once we're superbowl contenders next year, Jay's inexperience w/the playoffs won't be our shortcoming next season.

DBuck
12-18-2006, 08:41 PM
Who should we Draft.

njx9
12-18-2006, 10:58 PM
any LT, DE or DT in the first round. then rotate. eventually a safety.

i'm longer advocating that we draft a KR. i think that, if morgan doesn't work out, we should just go for the block.

also, one step closer to your wish Namy

Namy
12-19-2006, 06:48 PM
Eh, seeing how I didn't watch the game on Sunday, I was surprised that Walker was injured in the game... a separated shoulder? Yikes... we need hiim to beat the Bengals.

Namy
12-20-2006, 03:32 PM
whoo it's snowing hard.. too bad it'll all stop by the time the Bengals come to town

rickscott
12-21-2006, 03:42 AM
Cincy fan here; Is the snow expected to stop altogether for our game? Our defense has been playing very tentative in our losses. We rarely play an attacking style, rather seem to look for the QB to make errors that we can take advantage. I think this philosphy lost games for us to Atl, SD, Tampa and maybe even Indy too although our offense sucked there also. We should get Levi Jones back at LT for this game and all in all we will be relatively healthy. We are pretty happy where we are when you consider we lost our entire starting LBing corp (Pollack, Thurman and Simmons)for most of this season and also 3 O-linemen (Braham, Jones, Williams) for about 6-7 games. I feel we've hung in there but a loss to you would be pretty demoralizing. Good Luck, but I hope we kick the snot out of you.

Namy
12-21-2006, 01:31 PM
Cincy fan here; Is the snow expected to stop altogether for our game?
Snowfall stops today. Game should be fine.

njx9
12-21-2006, 07:13 PM
Cincy fan here; Is the snow expected to stop altogether for our game?
Snowfall stops today. Game should be fine.

depends, if the high sticks around and the flow from the gulf gets caught, there could be more by sunday. it's a nasty system.

Stats
12-22-2006, 08:17 PM
- larry coyer will lose any tough playoff game just like he's lost several tough regular season games.



Especially when he has "studs" like Ekuban and Lang rushing the QB. DC isn't our problem. Lack of pass rushers is.

njx9
12-22-2006, 08:35 PM
- larry coyer will lose any tough playoff game just like he's lost several tough regular season games.



Especially when he has "studs" like Ekuban and Lang rushing the QB. DC isn't our problem. Lack of pass rushers is.

i'm sorry, a drop 9 zone isn't going to work even if the two pass rushers are reggie white and bruce smith. i definitely don't disagree that our pass rush is a disgusting joke, but the play-calling has been awful any time we have a lead. we immediately shift into a prevent for some inexplicable reason, then proceed to let the other team back into the game. maybe not scoring early in the year was a blessing in disguise, in terms of keeping games clsoe so coyer couldn't start playing a 15 yard fence.

Stats
12-23-2006, 09:24 AM
I don't really see a whole lot of "drop 9 zone's" being played out there.

The fact is we have a cycle going on. Fire a DC. Hire a new one. Not improve the quality on the D-Line. Blame DC. Fire DC. Hire a new one.

It's been going on for the entire decade. Fire Coyer. I don't really care. I don't really like or dislike him. I'd like to see someone else do better with the talent we've had up front. The fact is we're not going to be a truly elite defense until we upgrade the talent on the D-Line. I don't care who the DC is.

rickscott
12-23-2006, 01:08 PM
You guys sound like the same thing we discuss. There's plenty of talk in Cincy about firing the DC since the games we have lost this year are pretty much due to a very passive style of defense employed in games where it was if he "feared" Vick so we sat back and let him look for a receiver all day long. Same with Manning, same with SD in the 2nd half, and so on and so on. If we rush the QB and throw in an occasional blitz from an OLB or Safety, we are OK. If we sit back, we will lose to you too

njx9
12-23-2006, 01:57 PM
I don't really see a whole lot of "drop 9 zone's" being played out there.

The fact is we have a cycle going on. Fire a DC. Hire a new one. Not improve the quality on the D-Line. Blame DC. Fire DC. Hire a new one.

It's been going on for the entire decade. Fire Coyer. I don't really care. I don't really like or dislike him. I'd like to see someone else do better with the talent we've had up front. The fact is we're not going to be a truly elite defense until we upgrade the talent on the D-Line. I don't care who the DC is.

ah, so you're totally ok with the fact that our DC refuses to blitz once we have the lead? or the blown 4th quarter leads that were a direct result of his inability to be aggressive?

i'm curious, how many times have you seen him make half-time adjustments to what the other team is doing? how many times have you seen him play anything but zone once we have the lead?

or let's get really specific: do you honestly believe that he was being agressive against san diego in the 4th quarter in week 11 when we gave up 14 4th quarter points? or against seattle when we let in 16 4th quarter points? both games were completely winnable until we played prevent for the ENTIRE 4th quarter.

wait, i can see the response, "no we didn't" or "i don't recall us doing that". fine. prove to me that there's a vast difference in the team from early in the season, when, because the games were close throughout, he couldn't drop into a prevent, and now. i'm talking about the talent level. since, if the entire problem is the defensive line, there must have been a major change in personnel or ability, right? or maybe, just maybe, our DC has been letting the team down to the tune of 2 big losses?

Titans10
12-25-2006, 12:17 AM
bump

Congrats Denver on the big win, Im glad to see my boy J.C. playing better each week, you guys have a bright future on offense with all those rookies contributing

...and one more thing, Champ Baily :shock:, I dont understand why teams even consider throwing to his side

Namy
12-25-2006, 12:25 AM
bump

Congrats Denver on the big win, Im glad to see my boy J.C. playing better each week, you guys have a bright future on offense with all those rookies contributing

...and one more thing, Champ Baily :shock:, I dont understand why teams even consider throwing to his side
Eh... the temptation to "burn" Bailey is too great I suppose. Also, Bailey does get beat tho... but momentarily... his make up speed is faster than what QBs perceive.

It was a "Christmas" win for sure. Some good drives. And Cutler is showing his arm beautifully. However, he got lucky several times. Same thing w/our defense. Palmer made some horrible throws and our defense got lucky. Also, to win b/c the snap was bad is credit to the mile high weather and luck. But, I'll take it. A win is a win.

Now... no letdown to SF.

Titans10
12-25-2006, 12:54 AM
bump

Congrats Denver on the big win, Im glad to see my boy J.C. playing better each week, you guys have a bright future on offense with all those rookies contributing

...and one more thing, Champ Baily :shock:, I dont understand why teams even consider throwing to his side

It was a "Christmas" win for sure. .

A Christmas win for a quarterback from Santa Claus, Indiana

And I dont think there will be a let down for San Fran due to the fact that you control your own destiny, if you win your in, and the players will respond to that

Stats
12-25-2006, 09:09 AM
I don't really see a whole lot of "drop 9 zone's" being played out there.

The fact is we have a cycle going on. Fire a DC. Hire a new one. Not improve the quality on the D-Line. Blame DC. Fire DC. Hire a new one.

It's been going on for the entire decade. Fire Coyer. I don't really care. I don't really like or dislike him. I'd like to see someone else do better with the talent we've had up front. The fact is we're not going to be a truly elite defense until we upgrade the talent on the D-Line. I don't care who the DC is.

ah, so you're totally ok with the fact that our DC refuses to blitz once we have the lead? or the blown 4th quarter leads that were a direct result of his inability to be aggressive?

i'm curious, how many times have you seen him make half-time adjustments to what the other team is doing? how many times have you seen him play anything but zone once we have the lead?

or let's get really specific: do you honestly believe that he was being agressive against san diego in the 4th quarter in week 11 when we gave up 14 4th quarter points? or against seattle when we let in 16 4th quarter points? both games were completely winnable until we played prevent for the ENTIRE 4th quarter.

wait, i can see the response, "no we didn't" or "i don't recall us doing that". fine. prove to me that there's a vast difference in the team from early in the season, when, because the games were close throughout, he couldn't drop into a prevent, and now. i'm talking about the talent level. since, if the entire problem is the defensive line, there must have been a major change in personnel or ability, right? or maybe, just maybe, our DC has been letting the team down to the tune of 2 big losses?

So you're a fan of the cycle.

Fine. Lets fire Coyer. I can't wait to see the next guy get it done with our current D-Line. Should be fun. :)

Chris
12-25-2006, 06:31 PM
Getting a top ten pick in the third from the Redskins is awesome. I guess according to Gibbs, we don't get their fourth next year because they played so bad. Oh well. . . :D

njx9
12-26-2006, 08:47 AM
So you're a fan of the cycle.

Fine. Lets fire Coyer. I can't wait to see the next guy get it done with our current D-Line. Should be fun. :)

i'd much rather address both, but i don't believe for one second that the crap coyer ran in the 4th quarter on sunday (carson palmer tore us up and, by my radio stopwatch, didn't take more than 4 seconds on a single third down) would work with anyone manning our d-line. there's just no way you're ever going to get to the quarterback in 3ish seconds every single play.

clearly darrent or foxworth has to step up at the corner opposite champ and actually, you know, cover someone. the safeties have to be upgraded (or at the very least, lynch needs to stop being asked to cover anyone man-to-man, another problem i have with coyer).

someone on the front seven has to tackle at least every once in a while. we're not going to beat very many good teams if champ is having to come up and make every tackle.

i'm not by any means saying that our ONLY problem is DC, but i think it's ridiculous to believe that he doesn't have any part in the problems with this team.

njx9
12-26-2006, 08:48 AM
Getting a top ten pick in the third from the Redskins is awesome. I guess according to Gibbs, we don't get their fourth next year because they played so bad. Oh well. . . :D

i wonder if they'll take jake for their first...

mattrob
12-26-2006, 06:45 PM
Getting a top ten pick in the third from the Redskins is awesome. I guess according to Gibbs, we don't get their fourth next year because they played so bad. Oh well. . . :D

i wonder if they'll take jake for their first...

Nah, the Redskins aren't that stupid...they'll hold out until we include Foster in the deal. 8)

49ersfan_87
12-26-2006, 08:47 PM
We got you guys on sunday. Should be a great matchup. Even though we will most likely get blown out, i want to see how our team matches up with a superior team, on the road in one of the toughest stadiums to play no less. Heres to a good game with no injuries.

rickscott
12-26-2006, 08:49 PM
Bengal fan here counting on the Niners to beat up on Denver. I actually think Frank Gore can have success and the 49ers will give the Broncos a great game.

njx9
12-26-2006, 09:08 PM
Bengal fan here counting on the Niners to beat up on Denver. I actually think Frank Gore can have success and the 49ers will give the Broncos a great game.

does that help you in some way i'm unaware of? i thought your best chance was for the jets to drop since we now have the head to head game.

smittyjs
12-26-2006, 09:26 PM
Well i don't like to see Cutler lose, but lets go 49ers!!! :( :(

elway777
12-27-2006, 01:44 PM
Bengal fan here counting on the Niners to beat up on Denver. I actually think Frank Gore can have success and the 49ers will give the Broncos a great game.


why do you think we care?

njx9
12-27-2006, 02:57 PM
Well i don't like to see Cutler lose, but lets go 49ers!!! :( :(

i can't believe you're selling out Jay like that.

smittyjs
12-27-2006, 03:11 PM
Well i don't like to see Cutler lose, but lets go 49ers!!! :( :(

i can't believe you're selling out Jay like that.Titans>Cutler

njx9
12-27-2006, 04:11 PM
Well i don't like to see Cutler lose, but lets go 49ers!!! :( :(

i can't believe you're selling out Jay like that.Titans>Cutler

bah. who let's their favorite team win out over a player they kind of sort of like.

elway777
12-28-2006, 03:34 PM
Well i don't like to see Cutler lose, but lets go 49ers!!! :( :(

i can't believe you're selling out Jay like that.Titans>Cutler

bah. who let's their favorite team win out over a player they kind of sort of like.


:lol:

njx9
12-29-2006, 02:57 PM
bump

njx9
12-30-2006, 11:57 PM
*sigh* re-bump.

anyone else think we stand a 50/50 shot of losing to the 49ers?

Namy
12-31-2006, 12:30 AM
*sigh* re-bump.

anyone else think we stand a 50/50 shot of losing to the 49ers?
No. In addition to superior talent...

The reason:
Broncos have the playoffs on the line at home
49ers don't really have much too play for

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-31-2006, 12:33 AM
*sigh* re-bump.

anyone else think we stand a 50/50 shot of losing to the 49ers?
No. In addition to superior talent...

The reason:
Broncos have the playoffs on the line at home
49ers don't really have much too play for

Meh, I have a feeling Frank Gore will have a nice day, and of course whoever Darrent Williams is covering is gonna have a good day.

I'd say 50/50 is a good choice. What needs to happen for us to make it if the 9ers win?

njx9
12-31-2006, 12:35 AM
KC loss, Cinci loss, Jax loss, Jets loss... i dunno, but i think that would cover it.

my problem with this game is that we play down to the level of nearly everyone we play, and as was poitned out elsewhere, san francisco seems to play up. i mean, if we can't even cover the spread against oakland i have a difficult time seeing anything as a gimme.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-31-2006, 05:27 PM
Wow.

elway777
12-31-2006, 06:25 PM
Im looking at the game from nfl.com


why is plummer in the game?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
12-31-2006, 07:04 PM
Im looking at the game from nfl.com


why is plummer in the game?

Cutler got hurt for a bit. He's back now though.



Good call njx.

Namy
12-31-2006, 07:34 PM
i'm speechless

njx9
12-31-2006, 08:36 PM
our entire offensive line should be shot. the officials should be shot (although i don't believe for one second they affected the outcome of the game adversely for us). our defensive line should be gutted completely. larry coyer should never be a defensive coordinator again. did i miss anyone? that was the single worst performance i've seen out of this team in the last few years.

SeanTaylorRIP
12-31-2006, 10:32 PM
That was a tough loss.

alca1992
01-01-2007, 07:17 AM
im not a bronco fan but you guys lost a good player

RIP Darrent

GaMeTiMe
01-01-2007, 07:28 AM
Yes, Darrent Williams shot and killed in Denver

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2716385

RIP..I just watched the kid play what seems like hours ago, its shocking. That poor family, and way to add even more to the Broncos' woes. Of course the player's lives are more important than the game, but just as you say how could it be any worse. Sheesh

Jimmy
01-01-2007, 07:58 AM
njx, you jinxed him man

RIP

01-01-2007, 08:24 AM
Sorry about Darrent Williams he was going to be a great player :cry:

RIP

villagewarrior
01-01-2007, 12:19 PM
RIP Darrent Williams.

The stuff humans do to each other... :cry:

Windy
01-01-2007, 01:31 PM
RIP


I cant believe it. One of my favorite players even if he was a bronco.

RIP

jmanz
01-01-2007, 01:37 PM
terrible situation....so much life left to live and a great player. Very sad.

PanteraMunKy
01-01-2007, 02:16 PM
R.I.P. D-Will One of my favorite O-State Players of all time, the Broncos lost one hell of a playmaker. He was going 2 be great

Jimmy
01-01-2007, 04:09 PM
Will the Broncos get an form compensation pick for Darrent.?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-01-2007, 04:54 PM
I dunno, I would think not, or if anything, a third rounder or later.

This opens up a big hole in the secondary, Darrent was most likely going to progress and be suitable for next year, so the Broncos could address DL and maybe even pick up a RB. Now they're in the market for good DL and CB, which makes it very difficult when you're drafting where they're drafting.

RaiderNation
01-01-2007, 04:56 PM
damn this sucks that he died. he was very good player and will be missed. it also opens up a huge hole for u guys cuz he was a top 15 CB in my opinion

M
01-01-2007, 05:24 PM
I suspect that with Pat Bowlen's role on the NFL TV contracts we will get a third round pick as compensation, near the end of the third round however.

I was thinking Safety or RB (how many times were they inside the 5 and had nobody that could punch it in), with first round pick. Now I suspect that it is either a free agent or a high pick in first round (or package 3rd round from washington and compensatory pick to move up a few spots in first round) for CB as what we have is not the answer to play opposite Champ.

This will also likely quash the rumor that we were shopping Lynch.

RaiderNation
01-01-2007, 05:30 PM
does any1 have info of why some1 killed him? i just heard he got shot and died

alca1992
01-01-2007, 05:36 PM
does any1 have info of why some1 killed him? i just heard he got shot and died

no but my guess is he got in an argument in the club or something

M
01-01-2007, 05:45 PM
I believe he was at Safari for Kenyon Martins invitatin only party for his birthday and an argument occurred. Whether Williams was involved in argument, and with whom, has not been clarified. Witnesses from the club are being interviewed. The only other Bronco player they have announced was in the vehicle was Javon Walker and he was not injured but who else was in the limo was not yet announced. Apparently white Suburban pulled beside them and fired automatic weapon at car. The rest is not being told.

bearfan
01-01-2007, 05:45 PM
RIP D.WIlliams

I was really high on his talent, its to bad that his life was cut so short with so much to live.

You guys do have Dominique Foxworth? Last year, him and D.Williams as rookies did a very good job IMO.Could he be a possible replacement or would a CB in the 1st or 2nd be best?

rickscott
01-01-2007, 06:20 PM
I saw last week where LT of the Chargers said that there isn't anything good that can happen by me going out to a club at night....It's too bad every single NFL player doesn't think that way.

Namy
01-01-2007, 08:55 PM
RIP Darrent. I can't believe it had to end this way. Death happens to everyone, but it's unfair to happen at the age of 24. As much as this is devastating to me, how much more will this affect our team? I was upset about our loss last night, but obviously his death rightfully puts things into perspective. I only hope that losing against SF has no correlation to this event.

njx9
01-02-2007, 12:19 AM
RIP Darrent. I can't believe it had to end this way. Death happens to everyone, but it's unfair to happen at the age of 24. As much as this is devastating to me, how much more will this affect our team? I was upset about our loss last night, but obviously his death rightfully puts things into perspective. I only hope that losing against SF has no correlation to this event.

that was my first thought this morning.

slightlyaraiderfan
01-02-2007, 01:09 AM
I was in shocked when I heard about Darrent, RIP.

Jimmy
01-02-2007, 10:09 AM
i think that the broncos should wear #27 stickers on their helmets, and dedicate next season to him. i have no clue what the organization's plans are yet, and the thing that scares me the most about it is that darrent died in JAvon Walkers lap, with brandon marshall in the car too

elway777
01-02-2007, 05:10 PM
http://denverbroncos.com/game_day_images/dwilliams.jpg

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-02-2007, 05:12 PM
Nice sig, Jimmy, I'm guessing by the line under it I can use it too? Let me know if I can't.

njx9
01-02-2007, 06:10 PM
clearly one of you saw it, but if you haven't, www.denverbroncos.com put up a nice tribute/memorial page.

elway777
01-02-2007, 06:21 PM
clearly one of you saw it, but if you haven't, www.denverbroncos.com put up a nice tribute/memorial page.

Most those pictures reminded me of how much the team loved Darrent.
Champ was his role model the past years.The relationship him and Dominique had coming in as rookies and competing against each other yet still being great friends off the field.I remember John Lynch commenting on how Darrent was instantly respected when he laid out a runningback during practice.

njx9
01-02-2007, 06:38 PM
and all the big hits he had last year on blitzes... i still think we used him wrong all season this year. i'll miss that intensity.

elway777
01-02-2007, 06:54 PM
I remember being upset when we drafted Darrent Williams in the 2nd because I wanted Justin Miller.

mattrob
01-02-2007, 07:09 PM
I saw last week where LT of the Chargers said that there isn't anything good that can happen by me going out to a club at night....It's too bad every single NFL player doesn't think that way.

What's too bad is that he HAS to think that way. There is absolutely no rational reason a professional athlete, or anyone for that matter, should have to think twice about going to a club, but, unfortunately, the reality is that these incidents are happening more and more frequently and people have to take their personal safety into consideration when they're going out. It's such a tragic loss, but to say DW shouldn't have put himself in that situation is ridiculous.

T-RICH49
01-02-2007, 07:59 PM
I don't care what team you root for this is a tragedy and I hope the scumbag who did this is caught and kill him like he had no problem killing Darrent.RIP Darrent Williams

Ravens1991
01-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Do you think that you guys will retire Williams #? I mean he died in one of the most tragic ways a person can die at so young.

njx9
01-02-2007, 09:07 PM
i can't imagine his number is retired, we've only retired 3 numbers ever, but it wouldn't surprise me if he got a ring of fame type memorial (clarification: i don't think he'll be IN the ring of fame, but his name and number will likely be memorialized in a similar way, imo).

rocco31fb
01-02-2007, 09:39 PM
njx9,

To explain why I thought benching Plummer was a bad move, I wasn't saying that Plummer was playing well. I agree with everyone that he wasn't playing well, but playing Cutler, especially at the part of the schedule they did, was the wrong move. Cutler may have improved the offensive stats, but he didn't get the job done when it mattered. Plummer was benched when the Broncos were 7-4. IMO he would have done a good enough job the rest of the season to put the Broncos in the playoffs. That is why I think the decision by Shanahan to start Cutler was wrong. You are free to call me an idiot, and yes I'm not a huge Bronco fan, but from an outsiders POV, that's what I think.

coolrider8193
01-02-2007, 09:41 PM
My heart goes out to the Williams family, the Denver broncos organization for loosing a member of their family. I hope that in some way that the NFL will honor him and his family.

njx9
01-02-2007, 09:56 PM
njx9,

To explain why I thought benching Plummer was a bad move, I wasn't saying that Plummer was playing well. I agree with everyone that he wasn't playing well, but playing Cutler, especially at the part of the schedule they did, was the wrong move. Cutler may have improved the offensive stats, but he didn't get the job done when it mattered. Plummer was benched when the Broncos were 7-4. IMO he would have done a good enough job the rest of the season to put the Broncos in the playoffs. That is why I think the decision by Shanahan to start Cutler was wrong. You are free to call me an idiot, and yes I'm not a huge Bronco fan, but from an outsiders POV, that's what I think.

i'm not going to call you an idiot, but you're 100% wrong. our offense was a joke for 10/11 games this season with plummer in. plummer wasn't really getting the job done. realistically, cutler did VERY well in bringing the team back two nights ago for a game tying touchdown in the 4th quarter, and had our offensive line and defense not been terrible, we likely win. the biggest problems this season were a) losing matt lepsis b) having no push from our defensive line whatsoever c) TERRIBLE defensive calls d) no consistency from our running game. none of those things were QB dependant. that said, jake was terrible all year. he's in the bottom five qbs in basically every metric that exists. he converted something like 24% of the third downs we passed on (i calculated this earlier in the season and can find it again if need be). jay bettered both of those numbers significantly.

that said, the reasons we aren't in the playoffs are pretty clear and have nothing to do with plummer sriding the bench:

1) our defensive line lacks talent in every way. warren is good occasionally, dumervil was decent as a situational rusher, but we have absolutely no one who can make plays on the line.

2) our running backs were consistently awful all season. tatum couldn't hang onto the ball late in games, mike had a hard time remembering to actually HIT holes.

3) our offensive line was disgusting. george foster should not be starting. erik pears had no business starting this season. i still think cooper carlisle sucks. foster's inability to block made it tough on our running backs and led to his benching. erik pears would've been benched if we'd had anyone else who could play the position.

4) larry coyer has terrible defensive schemes (whether you'd like to blame that on the d-line or not, running zones with everyone 8-10 yards off the LOS is not a good way to maintain a lead). it's almost funny how many teams were able to come back against us this season.

benching jake was a great move that should've come two weeks earlier.

rocco31fb
01-02-2007, 10:11 PM
njx9,

To explain why I thought benching Plummer was a bad move, I wasn't saying that Plummer was playing well. I agree with everyone that he wasn't playing well, but playing Cutler, especially at the part of the schedule they did, was the wrong move. Cutler may have improved the offensive stats, but he didn't get the job done when it mattered. Plummer was benched when the Broncos were 7-4. IMO he would have done a good enough job the rest of the season to put the Broncos in the playoffs. That is why I think the decision by Shanahan to start Cutler was wrong. You are free to call me an idiot, and yes I'm not a huge Bronco fan, but from an outsiders POV, that's what I think.

i'm not going to call you an idiot, but you're 100% wrong. our offense was a joke for 10/11 games this season with plummer in. plummer wasn't really getting the job done. realistically, cutler did VERY well in bringing the team back two nights ago for a game tying touchdown in the 4th quarter, and had our offensive line and defense not been terrible, we likely win. the biggest problems this season were a) losing matt lepsis b) having no push from our defensive line whatsoever c) TERRIBLE defensive calls d) no consistency from our running game. none of those things were QB dependant. that said, jake was terrible all year. he's in the bottom five qbs in basically every metric that exists. he converted something like 24% of the third downs we passed on (i calculated this earlier in the season and can find it again if need be). jay bettered both of those numbers significantly.

that said, the reasons we aren't in the playoffs are pretty clear and have nothing to do with plummer sriding the bench:

1) our defensive line lacks talent in every way. warren is good occasionally, dumervil was decent as a situational rusher, but we have absolutely no one who can make plays on the line.

2) our running backs were consistently awful all season. tatum couldn't hang onto the ball late in games, mike had a hard time remembering to actually HIT holes.

3) our offensive line was disgusting. george foster should not be starting. erik pears had no business starting this season. i still think cooper carlisle sucks. foster's inability to block made it tough on our running backs and led to his benching. erik pears would've been benched if we'd had anyone else who could play the position.

4) larry coyer has terrible defensive schemes (whether you'd like to blame that on the d-line or not, running zones with everyone 8-10 yards off the LOS is not a good way to maintain a lead). it's almost funny how many teams were able to come back against us this season.

benching jake was a great move that should've come two weeks earlier.

I think if Cutler had started a couple weeks earlier we may not be talking about this. I think throwing him into the part of the schedule that was the toughest without any game experience was the biggest mistake. Also I think the only Broncos games we got in Ontario were the ones where Cutler looked the worst. Like I said before, I thought a lot of his TD throws were just jump balls that he was lucky weren't picked off.

I still think if they left Plummer in they would have finished 10-6 and made the playoffs. If they started Cutler maybe two weeks earlier I could say the same thing. We could go back and forth on this, but hearing more about the deeper issues in Denver is helpful, so thanks.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-02-2007, 10:12 PM
njx9,

To explain why I thought benching Plummer was a bad move, I wasn't saying that Plummer was playing well. I agree with everyone that he wasn't playing well, but playing Cutler, especially at the part of the schedule they did, was the wrong move. Cutler may have improved the offensive stats, but he didn't get the job done when it mattered. Plummer was benched when the Broncos were 7-4. IMO he would have done a good enough job the rest of the season to put the Broncos in the playoffs. That is why I think the decision by Shanahan to start Cutler was wrong. You are free to call me an idiot, and yes I'm not a huge Bronco fan, but from an outsiders POV, that's what I think.

i'm not going to call you an idiot, but you're 100% wrong. our offense was a joke for 10/11 games this season with plummer in. plummer wasn't really getting the job done. realistically, cutler did VERY well in bringing the team back two nights ago for a game tying touchdown in the 4th quarter, and had our offensive line and defense not been terrible, we likely win. the biggest problems this season were a) losing matt lepsis b) having no push from our defensive line whatsoever c) TERRIBLE defensive calls d) no consistency from our running game. none of those things were QB dependant. that said, jake was terrible all year. he's in the bottom five qbs in basically every metric that exists. he converted something like 24% of the third downs we passed on (i calculated this earlier in the season and can find it again if need be). jay bettered both of those numbers significantly.

that said, the reasons we aren't in the playoffs are pretty clear and have nothing to do with plummer sriding the bench:

1) our defensive line lacks talent in every way. warren is good occasionally, dumervil was decent as a situational rusher, but we have absolutely no one who can make plays on the line.

2) our running backs were consistently awful all season. tatum couldn't hang onto the ball late in games, mike had a hard time remembering to actually HIT holes.

3) our offensive line was disgusting. george foster should not be starting. erik pears had no business starting this season. i still think cooper carlisle sucks. foster's inability to block made it tough on our running backs and led to his benching. erik pears would've been benched if we'd had anyone else who could play the position.

4) larry coyer has terrible defensive schemes (whether you'd like to blame that on the d-line or not, running zones with everyone 8-10 yards off the LOS is not a good way to maintain a lead). it's almost funny how many teams were able to come back against us this season.

benching jake was a great move that should've come two weeks earlier.

I agree with all of this. Another point I'd like to add to my one in the Rivers thread where I showed that Denver scored 7 more points per game with Cutler in. On defense, with Plummer in, they allowed 15 points per game. With Cutler in? 28 ppg against. Not alot of QBs would win with that many points being scored against them.

rocco31fb
01-02-2007, 10:19 PM
njx9,

To explain why I thought benching Plummer was a bad move, I wasn't saying that Plummer was playing well. I agree with everyone that he wasn't playing well, but playing Cutler, especially at the part of the schedule they did, was the wrong move. Cutler may have improved the offensive stats, but he didn't get the job done when it mattered. Plummer was benched when the Broncos were 7-4. IMO he would have done a good enough job the rest of the season to put the Broncos in the playoffs. That is why I think the decision by Shanahan to start Cutler was wrong. You are free to call me an idiot, and yes I'm not a huge Bronco fan, but from an outsiders POV, that's what I think.

i'm not going to call you an idiot, but you're 100% wrong. our offense was a joke for 10/11 games this season with plummer in. plummer wasn't really getting the job done. realistically, cutler did VERY well in bringing the team back two nights ago for a game tying touchdown in the 4th quarter, and had our offensive line and defense not been terrible, we likely win. the biggest problems this season were a) losing matt lepsis b) having no push from our defensive line whatsoever c) TERRIBLE defensive calls d) no consistency from our running game. none of those things were QB dependant. that said, jake was terrible all year. he's in the bottom five qbs in basically every metric that exists. he converted something like 24% of the third downs we passed on (i calculated this earlier in the season and can find it again if need be). jay bettered both of those numbers significantly.

that said, the reasons we aren't in the playoffs are pretty clear and have nothing to do with plummer sriding the bench:

1) our defensive line lacks talent in every way. warren is good occasionally, dumervil was decent as a situational rusher, but we have absolutely no one who can make plays on the line.

2) our running backs were consistently awful all season. tatum couldn't hang onto the ball late in games, mike had a hard time remembering to actually HIT holes.

3) our offensive line was disgusting. george foster should not be starting. erik pears had no business starting this season. i still think cooper carlisle sucks. foster's inability to block made it tough on our running backs and led to his benching. erik pears would've been benched if we'd had anyone else who could play the position.

4) larry coyer has terrible defensive schemes (whether you'd like to blame that on the d-line or not, running zones with everyone 8-10 yards off the LOS is not a good way to maintain a lead). it's almost funny how many teams were able to come back against us this season.

benching jake was a great move that should've come two weeks earlier.

I agree with all of this. Another point I'd like to add to my one in the Rivers thread where I showed that Denver scored 7 more points per game with Cutler in. On defense, with Plummer in, they allowed 15 points per game. With Cutler in? 28 ppg against. Not alot of QBs would win with that many points being scored against them.

Does that number include the picks for six Cutler gave up?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-02-2007, 10:32 PM
njx9,

To explain why I thought benching Plummer was a bad move, I wasn't saying that Plummer was playing well. I agree with everyone that he wasn't playing well, but playing Cutler, especially at the part of the schedule they did, was the wrong move. Cutler may have improved the offensive stats, but he didn't get the job done when it mattered. Plummer was benched when the Broncos were 7-4. IMO he would have done a good enough job the rest of the season to put the Broncos in the playoffs. That is why I think the decision by Shanahan to start Cutler was wrong. You are free to call me an idiot, and yes I'm not a huge Bronco fan, but from an outsiders POV, that's what I think.

i'm not going to call you an idiot, but you're 100% wrong. our offense was a joke for 10/11 games this season with plummer in. plummer wasn't really getting the job done. realistically, cutler did VERY well in bringing the team back two nights ago for a game tying touchdown in the 4th quarter, and had our offensive line and defense not been terrible, we likely win. the biggest problems this season were a) losing matt lepsis b) having no push from our defensive line whatsoever c) TERRIBLE defensive calls d) no consistency from our running game. none of those things were QB dependant. that said, jake was terrible all year. he's in the bottom five qbs in basically every metric that exists. he converted something like 24% of the third downs we passed on (i calculated this earlier in the season and can find it again if need be). jay bettered both of those numbers significantly.

that said, the reasons we aren't in the playoffs are pretty clear and have nothing to do with plummer sriding the bench:

1) our defensive line lacks talent in every way. warren is good occasionally, dumervil was decent as a situational rusher, but we have absolutely no one who can make plays on the line.

2) our running backs were consistently awful all season. tatum couldn't hang onto the ball late in games, mike had a hard time remembering to actually HIT holes.

3) our offensive line was disgusting. george foster should not be starting. erik pears had no business starting this season. i still think cooper carlisle sucks. foster's inability to block made it tough on our running backs and led to his benching. erik pears would've been benched if we'd had anyone else who could play the position.

4) larry coyer has terrible defensive schemes (whether you'd like to blame that on the d-line or not, running zones with everyone 8-10 yards off the LOS is not a good way to maintain a lead). it's almost funny how many teams were able to come back against us this season.

benching jake was a great move that should've come two weeks earlier.

I agree with all of this. Another point I'd like to add to my one in the Rivers thread where I showed that Denver scored 7 more points per game with Cutler in. On defense, with Plummer in, they allowed 15 points per game. With Cutler in? 28 ppg against. Not alot of QBs would win with that many points being scored against them.

Does that number include the picks for six Cutler gave up?

Okay, so 25.2. Forgot about those. Did Plummer throw any pick-sixes? I can't remember.

M
01-03-2007, 01:18 AM
Good to see a fellow Canadian on the Broncos thread.

With regards to Cutler, I think it is important to look at the Broncos big picture. Around here it is win the division, win the AFC and to the superbowl or bust. I think the arrogance of Shanahan realized that he would NEVER get to a superbowl with Plummer, and division and the AFC were at that stage out of the question. Jake regressed not progressed this season, and it was apparent to all. It was a very noticable step backwards in his game ability this year. Part of it was Kubiac's absence, part of it was Jakes fault, and part of it was Shanahan trying to see what Jake could do. Jake failed so Shanahan, knowing that he had raw talent decided to put Cutler in hoping to just make it to the playoffs to give Cutler the experience this year. Obviously, Shanahan wanted to see what Cutler could do in a real game and evaulate the talent that was apparent on the practice squad. He also wanted to push Plummer to see if he would respond and rise to the challenge. Plummer did the opposite he felt the pressure and forced the reads and throws, and then he told Shanahan where to go in front of the team. Again see arrogance of Shanahan comment.

So he put in Cutler and just hoped to see talent and make it to the playoffs for experience for Cutler to have him see that the speed gets turned up another notch in the playoffs. Shanahan also had to cut down the playbook for Plummer due to his arm limitations (deep outs and enough zip on the ball for cover two passes down the sidelines or before the safety). Bottom line is he now knows with Cutler that he has a raw talent that he can work with for future.

Economically, a team loses money by playing a road playoff game yet makes about 2-4 million (depending upon contracts for parking and concessions) for hosting a playoff game. He put Cutler in after speaking to Bowlen and they realized that they would not be hosting a playoff game (unless a miracle happened) so financially, it was the right decision at the right time. As far as talent goes, Shanahan has openly stated that this if the first time the entire playbook is available to him since Elway because all the other QB's had physical limitations (Griese could never throw a short out over 15 yards let alone a deep out).

Trust that makes some sense to you - just follow the money.

Jimmy
01-03-2007, 06:23 AM
Do you think that you guys will retire Williams #? I mean he died in one of the most tragic ways a person can die at so young.

it crossed my mind, but i didnt want to say it cause i thought people would bombard me as a complete idiot for bringing it up

Jimmy
01-03-2007, 06:25 AM
would you rather have cutler questionably starting opening day next year, with no experience or would you rather have some experience under his belt?


personally, im glad we did even though we had a shot at the playoffs with plummer

njx9
01-03-2007, 06:38 AM
i still don't get why people think this was a playoff team with a worse qb under center. what on earth did jake do this season to make anyone think he could've led this team to ANY wins late in the season?

Namy
01-03-2007, 06:07 PM
i still don't get why people think this was a playoff team with a worse qb under center. what on earth did jake do this season to make anyone think he could've led this team to ANY wins late in the season?
It's easy to point the finger at the QB, especially if he's a rookie. They just don't relaly know any better. However, I'm guessing that most of their accusations are based off of Cutler's two critical INTs for TDs against the Seahawks and 49ers. I'm bummed that we didn't make the playoffs tho. It would've been a great experience for Cutler even if he sucked it up. At least to have it under the belt woulda been good.

Anyway, one thing I find pretty humerous in retrospect is when Plummer came in for the SF game, some fans cheered a bit... then within his first few passes he throws a pick... I don't know why, but it's just pretty amusing.

njx9
01-03-2007, 06:25 PM
i saw it coming. the guy, for whatever reason this year, was completely unable to respond to any kind of pressure. too bad for him, but hopefully NFL teams are as backwards as NFLDC users and we can get something for him.

M
01-03-2007, 11:37 PM
i saw it coming. the guy, for whatever reason this year, was completely unable to respond to any kind of pressure. too bad for him, but hopefully NFL teams are as backwards as NFLDC users and we can get something for him.

I do not think I understand your comment regarding NFLDC users being backwards - care to elaborate?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
01-04-2007, 12:23 AM
i saw it coming. the guy, for whatever reason this year, was completely unable to respond to any kind of pressure. too bad for him, but hopefully NFL teams are as backwards as NFLDC users and we can get something for him.

I do not think I understand your comment regarding NFLDC users being backwards - care to elaborate?

People thinking Plummer is actually good, and we might have actually made the playoffs with him. IMO if Plummer stays in, Denver finishes 8-8, no playoffs.

49ersfan_87
01-04-2007, 12:26 AM
i saw it coming. the guy, for whatever reason this year, was completely unable to respond to any kind of pressure. too bad for him, but hopefully NFL teams are as backwards as NFLDC users and we can get something for him.

I do not think I understand your comment regarding NFLDC users being backwards - care to elaborate?

People thinking Plummer is actually good, and we might have actually made the playoffs with him. IMO if Plummer stays in, Denver finishes 8-8, no playoffs.

Jake Plummer sucks. I saw a couple of games and he was horrid. Bad decision making. Cutler actually played better and promises to get better as time goes on. IMO plummer should go to houston and reunite with kubiak, he had his best year of his career under kubiak last year.

njx9
01-04-2007, 07:11 AM
I do not think I understand your comment regarding NFLDC users being backwards - care to elaborate?

people on this board seem to believe this team was much better with plummer in. this is demonstratably not true. thus, i hope that their respective team owners feel the same way (backwards) about jake plummer so that come April, we can trade him for something of much higher value.

M
01-04-2007, 11:00 AM
Thank you for clarification.

One can only hope that a 2rd round offer for Plummer will be available. I am not optomistic however that he will go for that high. Personlly, I would take LenDale White for Plummer in a heartbeat. I believe that in our system he would be a very effective runner.

njx9
01-04-2007, 11:17 AM
i wouldn't mind that, although realistically, i'd take a 4th or 5th for him just to get him off salary (5.3, 4.8 and 5.8 million over the next three seasons).

M
01-04-2007, 01:27 PM
Realistically, you will not get more than a 4th for him. Kubiac might give us a 6th is what I am hearing.

Namy
01-04-2007, 07:38 PM
Realistically, you will not get more than a 4th for him. Kubiac might give us a 6th is what I am hearing.
Hm. I wonder... how demoralizing is it for a player to be in trade talks for a sixth or seventh rounder? Or "possibly" a fourth rounder but not "worth" a 3rd rounder lol.

Man... I Don't know what is more important to address right away in the draft or FA... OLine or DLine...

njx9
01-04-2007, 08:21 PM
i have to believe it's the d-line. the o-line can probably survive another year (i'm assuming lepsis will be able to play next year) while it develops a younger guy. the d-line needs talent three years ago.

M
01-04-2007, 10:17 PM
Now we are finally talking about the draft great!

I want to know what the analytical minds out there think we will do in the first 2 rounds? People let your voices be heard. I was greatly impressed with the braintrust that picked last year. I think the pretrading moves, and moves during the draft were very skilled. Personally I think it was Shanahans best draft and, as it played out on the field, it looked like it was he best draft since he has been in Denver. How do you follow that up - I want you to speculate.

Tell me you best draft guess, and of course what will do with Washington or Atlanta this year as every year we seem to get involved somehow with them? Take some time and impress us with your insights.

For examply we trade Plummer Tatum and Lynch in a package deal to get a second round draft pick this year or Sean Taylor (the nickle headed all world safety). Tell me about why you are thinking that trade of Tatum Bell and Mike Bell for LenDale White would make sense and could happen (I know I am very high on this kid).

Personally, I think this could be the year Shanahan finally takes a RB in the first round (if only Bush would drop that far to us) and a DE in round 2 (as I think we are picking up a FA O-lineman with the money we have from trading / releasing Plummer.

Tell us your thoughts?