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Shiver
01-18-2007, 03:39 PM
I dunno what to think. I definitely don't want that kind of pub around our 'leader'

I have no problem in defending him as our on the field Quarterback. Or the nonsensical constant "controversy," regarding his merits as a passer, I could deal with. But with this and the finger flip, he is making it hard for me to like him. You cannot have your Quarterback creating all kinds of extracurricular problems, and I am just a fan, I cannot imagine how Arthur Blank is feeling. If he was just some defensive back, or something, this wouldn't be an issue. There is a double standard for the position, and rightfully so.

The NFL counts things like this as a positive test, they counted the "WHIZZINATOR" against Onterrio Smith. The first positive test is anonymous. So if he's tested positive, he is suspended. Either way; this situation is embarrassing. This is the last thing you want, your HC and QB meeting face to face for the first time, not about Football but about this! Rich McKay descriped it as "stressful." This will only add fuel to the 'Vick's future in Atlanta may be coming to a climax' thought that has been among the whisperings of NFL sources.

Shiver
01-18-2007, 04:20 PM
An update on ESPNEWS. Mort said that the Falcons', Petrino and McKay, met with Vick and were "very upset." He said that this could be the final nail in the coffin, long term. If he struggles at all in Petrino's offense, he would be pulled in favor of Schaub. Then he would be traded next year, when it wouldn't kill the cap situation.

This just keeps getting worse... :|

We will be able to read the tea leaves, if the Falcons tender Schaub with the highest contract and DON'T trade him. That will confirm this thought, that the end is indeed here.

01-18-2007, 04:29 PM
not here to bash, just want some honest answers.

if Vick starts to struggle, will he get booed? Most Falcon fans (not saying any of you) are such vick defenders its getting pretty ridiculous, i honestly don't see how he still is on the team. If you were the HC and owner how long would you give him until you pulled him?

And also if falcon fans always complain the WRs arent any good then why dont they want to draft a WR in the 1st round this year? I dont understand that.

Shiver
01-18-2007, 04:35 PM
not here to bash, just want some honest answers.

It's alright, as long as you don't start dropping racist remarks like the last Bucs fan. :lol:

if Vick starts to struggle, will he get booed? Most Falcon fans (not saying any of you) are such vick defenders its getting pretty ridiculous, i honestly don't see how he still is on the team. If you were the HC and owner how long would you give him until you pulled him?

He has been booed before, actually. He is stuck on the team for this season. The team is 12$ under the cap, and his cap hit would be 20$ Million, enough said. That said; if he doesn't amaze Petrino and take to his offense, and is on good behavior from here on out, he is gone as of the '08 off-season.

And also if falcon fans always complain the WRs arent any good then why dont they want to draft a WR in the 1st round this year? I dont understand that.

They were inconsistent, they showed flashes of great play. The Falcons have a lot invested in them, they have talent, they've shown it. They have had some rough games, the Giants, Lions, Browns, Saints games in particular. Those negative performances gloss over the great games they had against Washington, Dallas, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Roddy White was in his 2nd year, Jenkins in his third, it's too early to abandon them. They are hoping the addition of Hue Jackson, who molded the Bengals receivers, will do similar work with them.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-18-2007, 04:53 PM
not here to bash, just want some honest answers.

if Vick starts to struggle, will he get booed? Most Falcon fans (not saying any of you) are such vick defenders its getting pretty ridiculous, i honestly don't see how he still is on the team. If you were the HC and owner how long would you give him until you pulled him?

And also if falcon fans always complain the WRs arent any good then why dont they want to draft a WR in the 1st round this year? I dont understand that.

Like I told you, Vick doesnt do well this year, I'd have no problem saying goodbye.

Shiver
01-18-2007, 04:56 PM
not here to bash, just want some honest answers.

if Vick starts to struggle, will he get booed? Most Falcon fans (not saying any of you) are such vick defenders its getting pretty ridiculous, i honestly don't see how he still is on the team. If you were the HC and owner how long would you give him until you pulled him?

And also if falcon fans always complain the WRs arent any good then why dont they want to draft a WR in the 1st round this year? I dont understand that.

Like I told you, Vick doesnt do well this year, I'd have no problem saying goodbye.

Same here. Either he lives up to his talent, paycheck, stops creating controversy, or he can go. This and the flip have cost him a ton of equity, from the fans and team a like.

Merkurius
01-18-2007, 06:29 PM
i just can't imagine vick wearing a different jersey...

scar988
01-18-2007, 06:37 PM
move Omiyale to LG. then we only need a LT IMO. and the Vick thing is just gettign down right annoying.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-18-2007, 07:21 PM
i just can't imagine vick wearing a different jersey...


Neither can I. He is my favorite player. But this is enough. Off the field problems added in with inconsistency on the field, isnt a good combo. In the end he put up a good year, but there was a few GREAT games, a few BAD ones. And a few ok ones.

Shiver
01-18-2007, 11:10 PM
i just can't imagine vick wearing a different jersey...


Neither can I. He is my favorite player. But this is enough. Off the field problems added in with inconsistency on the field, isnt a good combo. In the end he put up a good year, but there was a few GREAT games, a few BAD ones. And a few ok ones.


Who knows, maybe all of this will wake him up. Maybe the whispers of him being replaced, will wake him up to the fact that he isn't the best Quarterback in the NFL. He thinks he is. If that were to happen, I would be so happy. But I am not counting on it.

iloxygenil
01-18-2007, 11:14 PM
I think I just screwed up the whole NFLDC interactive mock by selecting Jamarcus Russell at #10. But he's by far the BPA, I should be able to get something for Vick or Schaub or Russell...if not...we're set at QB =) lol

Shiver
01-18-2007, 11:44 PM
I am going to put this out there; If Matt Schaub outperforms Michael Vick in the OTAs and Training Camp, would he be the starter? How would you feel about it? I feel this merits some legitimate discussion.

My Thoughts; Start the Quarterback who runs the offense the best.

This feels like blasphemy to me. I've been in Vick's corner for such a long time. I am just tired of it. He has been inconsistent, even in his '3rd year in the WCO' which I and others were harping on as a debating point this past off-season, he was just as inconsistent as ever. He wasn't a better passer, he didn't improve. I could live with an inconsistent passer, dominant rusher, in the past. But with all this controversy and 'slap in the face' moments to the organization and fans, it's harder to justify it. Whether it be the 'I didn't give my full effort' about the finale against Carolina. Or the finger flip. Or this drug bust. Even the Administrator of the Atlanta Falcons Message Board has soured on Michael Vick!

iloxygenil
01-19-2007, 12:04 AM
I am going to put this out there; If Matt Schaub outperforms Michael Vick in the OTAs and Training Camp, would he be the starter? How would you feel about it? I feel this merits some legitimate discussion.

My Thoughts; Start the Quarterback who runs the offense the best.

This feels like blasphemy to me. I've been in Vick's corner for such a long time. I am just tired of it. He has been inconsistent, even in his '3rd year in the WCO' which I and others were harping on as a debating point this past off-season, he was just as inconsistent as ever. He wasn't a better passer, he didn't improve.
I agree with you. But Vick was going through his reads and showed HUGE progress...but he's got a lot of good football to play to get a LOT of critics off his back, since he's been acting so juvenile.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 12:07 AM
The only stat of his that says he 'improved' were his Touchdown passes. Yet, if you honestly look at it, the real explanation seems to be that TJ Duckett's missing touchdowns had to go somewhere, down in the red-zone to Michael Vick in the passing game. Even so, he was only t-10th in the NFL in that regard, and no other Quarterback would brag about being 10th in a stat. Yes he had dropped passes that hurt him, but it isn't as if he is alone in that regard. I will agree with you, he didn't force as many passes into coverage as he has in the past. So his reads were a bit better.

It's not as if I don't think he's a good player, I do. But he is directly 'inconsistent' in nature. When he is on, he is unstoppable. "When" being the focal point. I could live with that, in the past he was truly "a winner," a leader on and off the field, who had "it" on the gridiron. He hasn't been that since '04. Seriously; he hasn't thrown a touchdown, or led a 4th Quarter comeback in how long??! What happened to the "when the game is on the line, Vick is money," player I remember from year's back? I haven't seen him in a long, long time. We came up short in every, single, game, in which we were behind in the 4th Quarter. That is absurd, especially when any one of those games and we are in the playoffs. I remember a few years back, if Michael had the ball, with the game on the line, I had complete confidence he would get it done. I remember the '02 season, I remember in '04 when he would be mediocre as a passer but lead the team back from behind to win. Even in early '05 he did that, that game against the Saints where he lead his team down the field for the winning FG, going 4-4 passing, and rushing for another first down in a minute. That just hasn't been the case in recent years. What's the point of throwing a career high in Touchdown passes, when ZERO of them occur in the Quarter that matters most?

So combine that with the off the field antics, I just am not sure what future he has. I want him to succeed, I really do. That would mean two things;

He decided to live up to his potential and become one of the best players in the NFL. Obviously that would be great to see, game in, game out.

In extension, if Vick was to harness that ability, it would lead to wins for the Falcons. I will be bold and say if Vick was woken up by recent events, took his game to the next level, that would lead to a Super Bowl championship.


I guess I need to channel my 'good fan' and be cautiously optimistic. I will try.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-19-2007, 04:56 AM
I honestly think this should be the last year Mike Vick doesnt have to fight for his job.

iloxygenil
01-19-2007, 09:13 AM
I honestly think this should be the last year Mike Vick doesnt have to fight for his job.
I think we're looking that right in the face, if he struggles this year, then I think we'll move him somewhere, because in 2008 we can afford to actually trade him...But he was significantly better in his reads and stuff this season, he didn't have problems with accuracy, and our WRs dropped WAY WAY WAY too many balls, I think Alge only caught just over 50% of balls tossed his way (yes I know that includes overthrows etc) and 20 TD passes is decent, that's pretty good for a QB than ran for over 1000 yards. He had what 3500+ total yards? That's pretty good...if a QB has 3500+ passing yards everyone would have been happy with that. But he is under serious scrutiny because his winning percentage dropped and stuff, but look at the players around him. Many times last season it looked as if Vick was the only player on the field who cared about the game. It's pathetic and our coaching staff is to be blamed. If Vick does however struggle again this season, I think it's time to bring in a real answer and let Vick go if we can. We can't live with this up and down week in and week out.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 01:08 PM
BLANK "UPSET" BY VICK ANTICS

In an item on ESPN.com, Falcons G.M. Rich McKay describes owner Arthur Blank as "upset" regarding the news that Quarterback Michael Vick had in his possession a water bottle with a secret compartment that smelled of marijuana and that contained a substance that is being tested by police.

"We are an organization that prides itself on not having off-the-field issues," McKay said. "I think we have done a pretty good job of bringing the right people in here so we don't have to face these types of issues. We don't like it. We don't accept it. It is not what we want."

Coincidentally, Vick met with new coach Bobby Petrino for the first time on Thursday, a day after Vick's water bottle was fished from a recycling bin and inspected. The ESPN.com article mentions that Petrino could open training camp by giving Matt Schaub a chance to win the starting quarterback job.

As a practical matter, though, the process of Vick and Schaub competing will start much earlier. For all practical purposes, it's already begun; and Vick has lost the first round.

After Vick directed an obscene gesture at home fans after a game in November, we did some number crunching regarding the cap consequences of moving him. We'll track that down and dust that off at some point over the weekend.

We're not suggesting that Vick won't be a Falcon when the 2007 season starts, but based on recent events it makes sense to be thinking about the possible results of a divorce.

Surely, the Falcons are doing the same thing.

Honestly, an open competition could bring out the best from Michael Vick, and by default, the Atlanta Falcons. I am all for it. Let him redeem himself. Most people feel as if Vick's 'celebrity,' untouchable status, and his view of himself ("the best Quarterback in the buisness"), has stunted his development as a Quarterback. That's why his first year is still his best year. If he was forced to play for his job, he would have to step it up.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 02:43 PM
I honestly think this should be the last year Mike Vick doesnt have to fight for his job.
I think we're looking that right in the face, if he struggles this year, then I think we'll move him somewhere, because in 2008 we can afford to actually trade him...But he was significantly better in his reads and stuff this season, he didn't have problems with accuracy, and our WRs dropped WAY WAY WAY too many balls, I think Alge only caught just over 50% of balls tossed his way (yes I know that includes overthrows etc) and 20 TD passes is decent, that's pretty good for a QB than ran for over 1000 yards. He had what 3500+ total yards? That's pretty good...if a QB has 3500+ passing yards everyone would have been happy with that. But he is under serious scrutiny because his winning percentage dropped and stuff, but look at the players around him. Many times last season it looked as if Vick was the only player on the field who cared about the game. It's pathetic and our coaching staff is to be blamed. If Vick does however struggle again this season, I think it's time to bring in a real answer and let Vick go if we can. We can't live with this up and down week in and week out.

My only problem with what he did on the field is his horrible production in the 4th Quarter. That is something I never thought I would think that. He used to be a stud in the crucial period.

iloxygenil
01-19-2007, 04:33 PM
I honestly think this should be the last year Mike Vick doesnt have to fight for his job.
I think we're looking that right in the face, if he struggles this year, then I think we'll move him somewhere, because in 2008 we can afford to actually trade him...But he was significantly better in his reads and stuff this season, he didn't have problems with accuracy, and our WRs dropped WAY WAY WAY too many balls, I think Alge only caught just over 50% of balls tossed his way (yes I know that includes overthrows etc) and 20 TD passes is decent, that's pretty good for a QB than ran for over 1000 yards. He had what 3500+ total yards? That's pretty good...if a QB has 3500+ passing yards everyone would have been happy with that. But he is under serious scrutiny because his winning percentage dropped and stuff, but look at the players around him. Many times last season it looked as if Vick was the only player on the field who cared about the game. It's pathetic and our coaching staff is to be blamed. If Vick does however struggle again this season, I think it's time to bring in a real answer and let Vick go if we can. We can't live with this up and down week in and week out.

My only problem with what he did on the field is his horrible production in the 4th Quarter. That is something I never thought I would think that. He used to be a stud in the crucial period.
When we call the same plays in the 4th quarter of EVERY game ALL season long, and don't change ANYTHING about our offense all game long, it's like duh, by the 4th quarter nothing is going to happen. I can't stand Greg Knapp, and I really think this season we'll be able to see to see what Vick offers as a QB, I hated our offense with Knapp running it, I could call the plays from my couch, so I definitely knew the Professionals running the opposing defenses were able to do the same thing.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 06:01 PM
Merrill Hoge said exactly what I think. Open the Quarterback competition, let whomever operates the offense more effectively, start.

iloxygenil
01-19-2007, 06:44 PM
Merrill Hoge said exactly what I think. Open the Quarterback competition, let whomever operates the offense more effectively, start.
I agree, but it's hard to do when you pay one guy the $$$ you pay Vick. Not to mention we need to move Schaub for some draft picks. We have to trust that Vick isn't going to do anything like that anymore.

He has been nothing but GREAT for this organization. The flipping off the fans, I fully support him in, we have some of the worst fans in the world, prolly the worst, not to mention the fact that so many people are so racist that we have a black QB. I wish people could quit playing the race card, but it's like an issue no matter what.

falconsrule
01-19-2007, 07:14 PM
Merrill Hoge said exactly what I think. Open the Quarterback competition, let whomever operates the offense more effectively, start.
I agree, but it's hard to do when you pay one guy the $$$ you pay Vick. Not to mention we need to move Schaub for some draft picks. We have to trust that Vick isn't going to do anything like that anymore.

He has been nothing but GREAT for this organization. The flipping off the fans, I fully support him in, we have some of the worst fans in the world, prolly the worst, not to mention the fact that so many people are so racist that we have a black QB. I wish people could quit playing the race card, but it's like an issue no matter what.

I agree with you 100%....We need to move Schaub for draft picks right now there is no need to have him just sitting on the bench...and about the Vick situation...Actually when Vick gave the bird it was to some saints fan who called him a racist remark...Im still on Vick side after this incident because I believe your inocent until proven other wise but I still think that it should be an open competition because i want this team to win no matter who is the QB.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 07:35 PM
There is no way we trade Schaub. At the very least we need the insurance in case Vick fails a drug test.

iloxygenil
01-19-2007, 09:04 PM
There is no way we trade Schaub. At the very least we need the insurance in case Vick fails a drug test.
4 games? c'mon...that's the max for first time offender. I refuse to keep Schaub for only 4 games. I don't care if we start 0-4 doesn't mean we are out of the playoffs. I would MUCH rather end up with a 2nd and 3rd or even an additional first from Schaub than I would have him for 4 games.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-19-2007, 09:07 PM
I'd like Shaub to go as well. But I highly doubt that he is going anywhere.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 09:17 PM
I'd like Shaub to go as well. But I highly doubt that he is going anywhere.


Because he isn't. That's why I didn't get my hopes up that Schaub was going to be traded. Whispers from around the NFL said the Falcons were keeping Schaub as an insurance policy in case Vick didn't succeed in Petrino's offense, and that was before this latest incident, that makes any deals outrageously unlikely. It isn't even conjecture at this point.

There is a reason Marcus Vick wasn't drafted. When you are a Quarterback in the National Football League, you cannot create off the field, self inflicted incidents. Michael isn't quite to that point, yet. Michael has a lot of 'ballin to do to restore him image and trust. The Falcons aren't going to get rid of their only insurance that more negative things, on or off the field, pops up.

Shiver
01-19-2007, 11:16 PM
Okay; back to normal discussions for now. Everyone knows this Vick thing is going to be hovering over the team all off-season.

Here is my plan. Stay at #10, draft a Free Safety. However I was thinking; I would be awfully torn if Adrian Peterson were there, and McKay was to not take him.

Shiver
01-20-2007, 03:17 AM
A positive article for a change;

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=168590


College head coaches, we all know, cannot make the transition to the NFL.

Bobby Petrino has no chance to succeed in Atlanta.

The Falcons would have been better served hiring a former NFL head coach or promoting an NFL coordinator.

Today, I offer you my magic glasses so you can see through these illusions. Clear vision will reveal the facts:

College head coaches can make the transition.

Over the past 20 years, 16 college head coaches have been hired to lead an NFL team. Of those, seven have had winning records with the team that hired them. Jimmy Johnson won two Super Bowls, Barry Switzer won one, Bobby Ross won an AFC championship, and Dennis Green was a missed field goal away from winning an NFC title. Tom Coughlin, Steve Mariucci and Jack Pardee had winning records.

Bobby Petrino has a very good chance to succeed in Atlanta.

When critics talk about the failures of head coaches who went from college to the NFL, they often point to Steve Spurrier and Butch Davis. Petrino's situation is completely different.

Spurrier was doomed by a Redskins infrastructure that also has failed three other head coaches. Since Dan Snyder has owned the team, none of his coaches has had a winning record, including Hall of Famer Joe Gibbs and Marty chottenheimer, who has the fifth-most regular-season victories in NFL history. The Falcons have a strong infrastructure. Owner Arthur Blank is willing to provide whatever resources are necessary, Rich McKay is one of the game's finest general managers, and the Falcons have an outstanding college scouting director in Phil Emery. Petrino has no choice but to depend on the expertise of his support people.

Davis, on the other hand, was given complete authority over the Browns, which was kind of like putting the kid who cuts your lawn in charge of landscaping. Davis may be a good coach, but he was undone by his failures as a general manager. "Many college head coaches have been given authority they were not prepared for because of the leverage they had," McKay says.

Petrino is taking over a team that has been a playoff contender each of the past three seasons -- and that might say more about his chances of succeeding than anything. Six of the college coaches who went pro and failed to win -- Davis, Rich Brooks, Dennis Erickson (with the Seahawks, not the 49ers), Dick MacPherson, Ray Perkins and Mike Riley -- took over dog teams that were incapable of anything other than rolling over and playing dead.

The Falcons would not necessarily have been better served hiring a former NFL head coach or an NFL coordinator.

There is no question NFL experience helps, and Petrino has that: He was an assistant with the Jaguars from 1999 to 2001. Of the seven college head coaches who had winning records in the NFL, five had previous experience in the league.

It also helps college coaches making the jump to surround themselves with assistants who have NFL experience, and Petrino is doing that. He hired Mike Zimmer, with 13 years in the NFL, to run his defense, and Hue Jackson, with six years of NFL experience, to run his offense.

Hiring a former NFL head coach may give you a more complete picture about what you are getting, but it is no guarantee of success. Former NFL head coaches have been given second, third or fourth chances 50 times over the last 20 years (not including interim coaches), and 70 percent of them had worse records with their subsequent teams. And only 30 percent of them had winning records on their second, third or fourth go-around.

Promoting a coordinator is the most common way to fill a head coaching spot. NFL teams have hired 32 offensive coordinators and 40 defensive coordinators to be head coaches over the past 20 years. But just because the coordinator pool begets the most head coaches doesn't mean it's the best way to go. Only 34 percent of the offensive coordinators who became head coaches had winning records with their first teams, and only 40 percent of the defensive coordinators had winning records with their first teams.

The numbers say the best chance for success, surprisingly enough, is with a college coach. But what a coach is surrounded by has a lot more to do with his success than where he comes from.

For Petrino and the Falcons, that's good news.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-20-2007, 06:37 AM
Okay; back to normal discussions for now. Everyone knows this Vick thing is going to be hovering over the team all off-season.

Here is my plan. Stay at #10, draft a Free Safety. However I was thinking; I would be awfully torn if Adrian Peterson were there, and McKay was to not take him.

Adrian is first on my draft wants. It's definately possible that he falls to 10, and I would snag him right away. LaRon is my next pick, and after that is the 2 DE's. If none of them are there (I think 1 of them will) it would leave drafting Reggie Nelson, or trading down and getting a Blalock, Brown, etc.

Merkurius
01-20-2007, 10:25 AM
shiver, curious to know which safety you would prefer the falcons pick with the 10. landry or nelson?

Shiver
01-20-2007, 04:28 PM
Probably Landry. But I wouldn't mind either.

Shiver
01-20-2007, 10:22 PM
http://www.zshare.net/download/zimmer-jan-18-mp3.html


There you can download an interview with Mike Zimmer. I love it. Press mano-a-mano coverage. No "rope a dope," and I quote from him, soft zone coverages. It also doesn't sound good for Ed Hartwell, he wants faster linebackers.


8)


BTW I am on the "Bring Adrian to the A.T.L McKay" bandwagon.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-21-2007, 07:10 AM
http://www.zshare.net/download/zimmer-jan-18-mp3.html


There you can download an interview with Mike Zimmer. I love it. Press mano-a-mano coverage. No "rope a dope," and I quote from him, soft zone coverages. It also doesn't sound good for Ed Hartwell, he wants faster linebackers.


8)


BTW I am on the "Bring Adrian to the A.T.L McKay" bandwagon.

Ha, me as well. My ultimate bigboard for this draft in round 1 is something like.

1. Calvin
2. Adrian
3. LaRon


BTW Shiver if you want you can wear this Adrian Sig I made the other day

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9261/adrianpetersoncopy0nk.png

D-Rod
01-21-2007, 09:49 AM
View on the Vick nonsense:

Annoying, but it's not as if we didn't know that Vick wasn't the smartest cookie... (and i mean that in a non-footballing sense). The major downside is that we can probably forget about trading Schaub, unless someone offers a 1st and 3rd and we have no choice, because they'll want to cover their backs in case Vick falls off the deep-end.

Potential silver lining: Vick's problem the past couple of years has been a lack of accountability. He has occasionally needed a good kick in the arse, and noone has given him that. He goes on about being Superman, but needs a dose of humility. Firstly, it seems that Petrino has no problem getting in his face when he screws up. Secondly, Vick has something to prove again, hopefully it will motivate him to really excel himself next season.

Other annoyance: AFMB is even worse than usual...

As to the draft:

With Schaub now out of the equation, I'd be even more keen to trade down.

Quick mock:

Late 1st (trade down): Justin Blalock
High 2nd: Eric Weddle (slightly ambitious)
Late 2nd: Ryan Harris (also slightly ambitious)
High 3rd: Dan Bazuin

MUST FIX OLINE!

Shiver
01-21-2007, 11:00 AM
Hopefully, Michael is motivated. My point of view is let the best Quarterback start for the team, whoever runs Petrino's offense better. Give Michael the impression that he isn't invincible, and has to compete like everyone else. Some of that is already happening with the "Falcons aren't married to Michael Vick" talk. Getting his best effort is the key for Bobby to unlocking the enigma of Michael "tease" Vick. The whispers are that Michael Vick hasn't been a very hard worker. Which is in sharp contrast to Dan Reeves' saying he was the most competitive person he knew. I think the contract is a big reason for that.

falconsrule
01-21-2007, 11:51 AM
http://www.zshare.net/download/zimmer-jan-18-mp3.html


There you can download an interview with Mike Zimmer. I love it. Press mano-a-mano coverage. No "rope a dope," and I quote from him, soft zone coverages. It also doesn't sound good for Ed Hartwell, he wants faster linebackers.


8)


BTW I am on the "Bring Adrian to the A.T.L McKay" bandwagon.

Good interview thanks for posting...I tried to get a better sense on who we might draft from the interview here we go....1)If we get a good offer I think we would trade down if not....
2) Landry or Nelson....I personally feel Landry is the front runner & would know how to play the posistion better then Nelson.
but Yeah it really doesnt sound to good for Hartwell....worst case scenario for him....Beck out performs him and win the starting posistion would his cap hit hurt us if we decide to trade him?

ATLDirtyBirds
01-21-2007, 12:34 PM
Trade Hartwell, move Brooking to MLB and go with a core of


Demo-Brooking-Boley

scar988
01-21-2007, 12:42 PM
Trade Hartwell, move Brooking to MLB and go with a core of


Demo-Brooking-Boleytrue that. I would love that again. move Hartwell out and bring in a 3rd from a 3-4 team and then get us a guy who is a Demo clone in the 4th. I will say, McKay knows his linebackers.

Shiver
01-21-2007, 12:46 PM
Hartwell definitely doesn't seem to be a fit in Zimmer's scheme. I wonder if this is Jordan Beck's time to shine?

D-Rod
01-21-2007, 05:51 PM
does anyone know what it would actually cost us to offload Hartwell, either in a trade or released?

I'd love to see Brooking moved to MLB. the former staff were set that he was WLB, rain or shine, but hopefully the new staff will re-evaulate him from a neutral perspective. he has lost a step, but has the size, tenacity and diagnostics to slot in at MLB perfectly.

question is, can we afford the cap hit of getting rid of Hartwell, plus paying Demorrio starter-money?

---- and as for today, at least we won't have to watch the saints in the SB. only that could make this season even worse...

49ersfan_87
01-21-2007, 06:07 PM
So is releasing or trading vick in the next year/2, if he keeps his current play at the same level, a viable option?

Shiver
01-21-2007, 07:16 PM
So is releasing or trading vick in the next year/2, if he keeps his current play at the same level, a viable option?


It is viable to trade him in early '08. Hopefully it won't come to that. If it does, that means Vick didn't pick up Petrino's offense and was a liability to the team.

The more likely result would be a trade (with a renegotiated contract) in early 2008, when the Falcons would take a net cap hit of $7.18 million.

I will stress, however, that Michael Vick needs a "'ballin" '07 season to secure his future. I wouldn't even rule out that he could lose his job with a poor camp. He needs to perform, and mature, from the get go. The diapers are coming off, it's time for Michael Vick to step up and be who he can be. I am staying optimistic that he will.

Shiver
01-21-2007, 07:45 PM
Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was not carrying marijuana or another illegal substance at the Miami airport and will be exonerated, league sources told ESPN's Chris Mortensen on Sunday.

On Wednesday, Vick surrendered a water bottle to security at Miami International Airport that authorities believed smelled like marijuana and contained a substance in a hidden compartment. Vick was not arrested and was allowed to board his flight to Atlanta.

Miami police had said it could take weeks to decide whether charges would be filed against Vick, a three-time Pro-Bowler.

A Falcons team source confirmed that the team expects to hear something formal by Monday.

Alright, maybe everyone overreacted a bit. :lol:

iloxygenil
01-21-2007, 08:59 PM
Yeah, I love it, and I'm very excited about it. Now we can finally deal Schaub and get what it is we want. I really like the idea of shipping Hartwell somewhere. He can't cover anyone, and it's time to find out if Jordan Beck can do it. I LOVE watching him play, he's the most intense player out there, and he's sideline to sideline, I mean we all remember his first NFL tackle was a forced fumble. I want him on the field. He had like 3 turnovers in 2 games in the preseason when he was healthy. It's time to let him play.

Shiver
01-21-2007, 09:31 PM
I still don't think we intentionally trade Schaub. If someone wants him, they will have to pay a ransom to get him.

iloxygenil
01-21-2007, 09:49 PM
Schaub HAS to be moved.

Shiver
01-21-2007, 09:52 PM
Don't get your hopes up.

iloxygenil
01-21-2007, 10:15 PM
Don't get your hopes up.
HAS to happen. We can't afford to lose him for nothing. Even if it's only a 2nd rounder, that's fine. I just want him gone and to be able to get something in return.

scar988
01-21-2007, 11:13 PM
not MJ.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2738494
I bet you it was Salvia he had. it smells kinda like MJ and has the effects similar but is legal for over 18. Anyway, this was poor judgment. Also, for those saying why did he fly airtran, well it's because he gets free flights as part of an endorsement deal with them. Laughing
I think this makes Schaub very tradable again.

49ersfan_87
01-21-2007, 11:18 PM
So are you guys thinking of drafting a tackle at 10? Doesnt seem to be a very deep draft class for tackles and you might have to reach for 1 to get a high quality one, because gandy is pretty old and declining.

scar988
01-21-2007, 11:48 PM
So are you guys thinking of drafting a tackle at 10? Doesnt seem to be a very deep draft class for tackles and you might have to reach for 1 to get a high quality one, because gandy is pretty old and declining.no. we are goign to get the BPA at 10. whether it is a T, DE, WR, S or RB . right now though it is looking like a RB, S or DE. I woudl say the big board is this:
1) Calvin Johnson
2) Joe Thomas
3) Jamaal Anderson
4) Gaines Adams
5) LaRon Landry
6) Reggie Nelson
7) Marshawn Lynch
8) Allen Branch
expecting JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn in the top 10 and we have a pretty good chance at one of those 8.

falconsrule
01-22-2007, 12:21 AM
Unit by Unit analysis

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/teams/nflteamreport.php?teamid=2&section=STRATEGY%20AND%20PERSONNEL

ATLDirtyBirds
01-22-2007, 04:55 AM
So are you guys thinking of drafting a tackle at 10? Doesnt seem to be a very deep draft class for tackles and you might have to reach for 1 to get a high quality one, because gandy is pretty old and declining.no. we are goign to get the BPA at 10. whether it is a T, DE, WR, S or RB . right now though it is looking like a RB, S or DE. I woudl say the big board is this:
1) Calvin Johnson
2) Joe Thomas
3) Jamaal Anderson
4) Gaines Adams
5) LaRon Landry
6) Reggie Nelson
7) Marshawn Lynch
8) Allen Branch
expecting JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn in the top 10 and we have a pretty good chance at one of those 8.

I'm thinking that Adrian Peterson is at 3.

D-Rod
01-22-2007, 05:10 AM
good news about vick. still, i hope he'll get a motivational kick in the arse from Petrino and co, because even if it wasn't illegal, it wasn't clever.

assuming that quinn and russell are gone, these are my top 11 options:

1. Calvin Johnson
2. Joe Thomas
3. Jamaal Anderson
4. Gaines Adams
5. Adrian Peterson
6. Alan Branch
7. Laron Landry
8. Reggie Nelson
9. Leon Hall
10. Amobi Okoye
11. Marshawn Lynch

D-Rod
01-22-2007, 06:54 AM
Interestingly, Nelson is now at #7 on Kiper's board.

I know that Kiper flip-flops a lot until right before the draft - basically covering his behind for any eventuality - but it does suggest that Nelson at least has top-10 potential in the eyes of NFL guys (for whatever you may think of Kiper's tactics, he does know his stuff). Also, Kiper's board is actually beginning to look vaguely sensible.

Nevermind trading down for him, perhaps Nelson won't even be there at #10!

georgiafan
01-22-2007, 07:43 AM
I wish they were a OL worth the #10 pick

I would like to see us go WR in round 2

iloxygenil
01-22-2007, 09:52 AM
It's all going to depend on if we trade down or not. Justin Blaylock is a MONSTER and he'd be great to have here, and if we trade down he's someone I think we should take. But other than that, no Tackles (and I know he's a Guard) is worth the top 10 pick. We are going to have to make sure we go BPA this year, because our most pressing needs are very shallow in the draft, except for DE, which is abundant. So we can't make reaches and hitch our trailer to a player who doesn't really have that kind of potential, if we start reaching in the draft and taking less quality players it messes up the organization. Even if we don't get the position we need, the most, we can cover it if we have good football players.

That being said, I don't think we have anything to worry about that. This draft will have players available at our picks, such as Tony Ugoh in the 2nd / 3rd and we still have FA to iron a lot of stuff out.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 11:06 AM
I want to hear if we are resigning Kerney. If not, that will be a major factor on draft day.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 11:51 AM
Falcons | Rosburg hired as ST coach
Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:00:52 -0800

AtlantaFalcons.com reports the Atlanta Falcons have hired Jerry Rosburg as their new special teams coach. Rosburg spent the last six seasons in the same role with the Cleveland Browns.


Football Outsiders' Special Teams Rank:

Cleveland

10th
8th
12th
20th
11th
18th

Looks pretty good to me.

iloxygenil
01-22-2007, 11:52 AM
I want to hear if we are resigning Kerney. If not, that will be a major factor on draft day.
I think we have a few things that are going to make our draft day calendar clear up for us.

1.) What happens to Schaub
2.) What happens with Kerney (I hope he's gone)
3.) What the coaching staff thinks of Hartwell's inability to function in our defense.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 11:53 AM
As for 3, we have plenty of linebackers.

SimonRath
01-22-2007, 11:58 AM
you hear the trade offer::

Oakland gets:
Michael Vick
1st round pick

Atlanta Gets:
Randy Moss
Jerry Porter
1st round pick

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/scorecard/01/22/truth.rumors.nfl/index.html

Shiver
01-22-2007, 12:20 PM
I think Ben Maller turned the salary cap off in his Madden trade. :roll: That trade makes no sense from a fiscal standpoint.

iloxygenil
01-22-2007, 12:58 PM
Looking at last year's draft, it makes me sick. We could have had an AMAZING draft, of players I had targeted.

1.) go back in time then...watch this.

1.) John Abraham (I know he got hurt, but he'll be fine)
2.) Jimmy Williams
3.) Jerious Norwood
4.) Pat Watkins (don't trade for Crocker, Watkins had only 38 tackles this season, but 2 FF and 3 INT, and didn't get to play every game.)
5.) Mark Anderson
6.) who cares
7.) Marques Colston

These are all players I had targeted throughout the draft...wow.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-22-2007, 12:58 PM
That's the worst trade I've seen in a while, not even including the $$$.

Two WR, probaly worth a 3rd and a 4th and move up 9 spots

for

a franchise qb

iloxygenil
01-22-2007, 01:35 PM
That's the worst trade I've seen in a while, not even including the $$$.

Two WR, probaly worth a 3rd and a 4th and move up 9 spots

for

a franchise qb
I was intrigued shortly by it, but it would have to be Schaub instead of Vick.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 01:44 PM
I still wouldn't like trading for the number one pick. It would cost our 10th pick, our insurance option at Quaterback, and another day one draft pick to trade up.

Merkurius
01-22-2007, 01:57 PM
what would we do with all the wrs?! porter, moss, white, jenkins, and potentially cj! i guess the spread offense would work. the source is foxsports, they are a complete joke.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 02:13 PM
I say on Draft Day we trade down and take Tony Ugoh. Both Mike Mayock and Mel Kiper have him as a first round Left Tackle. I have seen him anywhere between 15-40. But at his size, with an impressive senior season in the SEC, I love him.

Ward
01-22-2007, 02:13 PM
Uh... can we have Zimmer back now? :cry:

Shiver
01-22-2007, 02:14 PM
OWNED

ATLDirtyBirds
01-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Uh... can we have Zimmer back now? :cry:

You will get nothing and like it.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 03:18 PM
Mike Mayock showed some game-tape of Levi Brown, he says he's a dominant Left Tackle and with a good week will be a top-10 pick. He's 6'5", 325-lbs with "the feet of a ballerina." That's it, that is who I want. 8) Him and Tony Ugoh, both would be fantastic. We need a franchise Left Tackle. Atlanta hasn't invested, properly, in the O-Line in a long time. Too long.

D-Rod
01-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Mike Mayock showed some game-tape of Levi Brown, he says he's a dominant Left Tackle and with a good week will be a top-10 pick. He's 6'5", 325-lbs with "the feet of a ballerina." That's it, that is who I want. 8) Him and Tony Ugoh, both would be fantastic. We need a franchise Left Tackle. Atlanta hasn't invested, properly, in the O-Line in a long time. Too long.

It sounds like Levi Brown is going to be one of those guys who divides the opinion of scouts. Boom or bust, to slip into cliche. Some will have him top 10, some will have him out of the 1st round.

Frankly, I'd love to see him rise into the top 10. But I'm still not convinced. There are issues, no doubt. But everyone is always slightly wary of tackles...

On a side note, it looks like Okoye may have slipped down, and possibly off our draft board. Weighing in at 287 means that he is really more in a UT mold rather than a 4-3 NT to eventually replace Grady, and in Babs we already have the UT of the future. Of course, they might consider that Okoye could put on weight eventually - he is only 19, and has yet to reach the real bulking out age - but for the moment I think he is probably somewhat off the radar.

-----

As a comment on general draft strategy, we know that McKay will not enter April with holes that must be filled in the draft. Let's look at the three main issues...

It means that we will almost certainly sign an OG in free agency. It may not be a standout - Dielman, Steinbach and Dockery are the big three - but there will be someone better qualified than Lehr or Clabo.

It also means that we will also sign a FS in free agency, unless we think that Crocker would be serviceable for another year (admittedly, he did improve somewhat towards the end of the season). Again, it will probably not be a star, but it will be someone who can start so that we are not forced to take Nelson/Landry unless we like the value.

As for OT, there is not really any way we can upgrade in FA. I suspect that we enter the draft expecting a competition between Gandy, Omiyale, and possibly Ojinnaka. Gandy may not ideal, but he's not the worst starting LT in the league, and it doesn't constitute an immediate "hole".

In short, anyone talking about NEED is premature. We will have no idea about need until April 28th, and even then, if McKay has done his job properly, there will be no NEED, only OPPORTUNITY.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 05:01 PM
Gandy may not ideal, but he's not the worst starting LT in the league, and it doesn't constitute an immediate "hole".


I disagree, as I cannot think of much worse. Also his age, he is as close to done as the position gets.

As for the divisive nature of the Offensive Tackle position; last year most people thought Marcus McNeil couldn't play the Left Tackle position. We see how that turned out.

D-Rod
01-22-2007, 05:42 PM
Gandy may not ideal, but he's not the worst starting LT in the league, and it doesn't constitute an immediate "hole".


I disagree, as I cannot think of much worse. Also his age, he is as close to done as the position gets.

As for the divisive nature of the Offensive Tackle position; last year most people thought Marcus McNeil couldn't play the Left Tackle position. We see how that turned out.

Yes, Gandy was playing badly at the end of the year, and I want him replaced... but there are just no realistic options in FA to do that. But I'm with you in hoping that McKay pulls a rabbit out of the hat...

As for McNeil, I think most people rated him as a prospect, but having a serious back injury weighing over you as an OT is a huge negative. In fact, it's somewhat surprising that he didn't fall further than the 2nd round. San Diego reaped the rewards of the gamble this year, but his problem is a long-term one, and while I really hope for his sake that it does not resurface, there remains every chance that it does at some point.

As for Tackles in general, there is always a huge divide in opinion. I think we can agree on that. There is a lot of guesswork when it comes to OT's ability to handle the freaky speed-rushers in the NFL on a regular basis. A few examples of recent busts: K.Walker, Mike Williams, Gallery (though the jury is still out on him).

When it comes to Levi, I'm totally on the fence. I just don't know. I value Mayock's opinion, so that reassures me somewhat. As I said, I WANT Levi to silence the doubters and prove himself to be worthy of the #10 pick. We certainly need a LT. But there are doubts, and I think that it is best to admit that. His performance in the Senior Bowl, against elite talent, will be a great barometer. Go Levi!

Shiver
01-22-2007, 06:03 PM
What I saw was impressive. He dominated Lamarr Woodley, multiple times. Woodley is a hybrid DE/OLB type, so it showed he had the nimble feet and arm length to keep him at bay. He obviously has the size and strength. With a good combine, though, he might shoot too far up. :(

d34ng3l021
01-22-2007, 07:51 PM
I heard Brown is really unathletic and might even play guard at the next level.

btw, who is the guy in your sig Shiver?

Shiver
01-22-2007, 08:14 PM
All Day


And no, Levi Brown is plenty athletic. He dominated Lamarr Woodley from the LT position today. At 6'5" 325-lbs, he has prototype size for Left Tackle.

d34ng3l021
01-22-2007, 08:18 PM
All Day


And no, Levi Brown is plenty athletic. He ted Lamarr Woodley from the LT position today. At 6'5" 325-lbs, he has prototype size for Left Tackle.

Id love to draft him. Jeez. Him and Norwood compliment each other really well.

iloxygenil
01-22-2007, 10:39 PM
What do you guys think of my NFLDC draft so far? Aside from JaMarcus, but I just couldn't pass him up lol. I still may trade him.

Traded Schaub for
SS - Kennoy Kennedy
T - Jon Scott

Traded Kerney for
Pick 66
Pick 100
Pick 117

#10 Jamarcus Russell
#42 Tony Ugoh
#66 Brian Leonard
#74 Michael Johnson

Not a bad first day, but in reality, if things fell the way they did ATL would have gotten a better offer for #10 overall and I would have traded down, but if the picks went the same I would have selected Nelson at 10 and Johnnie Lee Higgins at 74 if I wasn't able to trade down from 10. But I think in this Fantasy world, its looking pretty good. 2 Offensive Linemen 2 Safetys a Power Runningback / FB to replace McCrary to spell Griffith and an elite backup QB.

Tubby
01-22-2007, 10:43 PM
Hows Demorrio Williams doing? Do you still consider him a top young OLB?

Shiver
01-22-2007, 10:51 PM
He is awesome in Nickel packages, he sucks on run downs. Teams run at him, that's the main reason Tiki Barber and Kevin Jones had big games, when he was in the line-up. They run counters, get him to over-pursue and get a body on him.

Tubby
01-22-2007, 10:57 PM
So do you think he's worth taking in a NFLDC dynasty fantasy draft, becuase the impression I got from your post was "definately no"

Shiver
01-22-2007, 10:58 PM
So do you think he's worth taking in a NFLDC dynasty fantasy draft, becuase the impression I got from your post was "definately no"

Well I don't like Demorrio Williams, but some here do. I think he would be a nice fit in a Tampa 2, flow to the ball, defense.

Shiver
01-22-2007, 11:00 PM
So do you think he's worth taking in a NFLDC dynasty fantasy draft, becuase the impression I got from your post was "definately no"

Well I don't like Demorrio Williams all that much, but some here do. In certain schemes I would like him. In a fast flow, aggressive one.

49ersfan_87
01-22-2007, 11:00 PM
Wow i suggested levi brown before most falcons fans did. Impressive :P

What are some of your other big needs besides a tackle. Im presuming a FS and RB? Will you guys also get a MLB, or do you think hartwell will play a full season next year?

Shiver
01-22-2007, 11:02 PM
Wow i suggested levi brown before most falcons fans did. Impressive :P

What are some of your other big needs besides a tackle. Im presuming a FS and RB? Will you guys also get a MLB, or do you think hartwell will play a full season next year?

I don't think Hartwell is a fit with what Mike Zimmer wants in Atlanta, but obviously I do not know for sure. If he isn't, we drafted Jordan Beck to be 'the guy' back in '05, in round three, almost took him a round earlier. Linebacker is one of the few spots in which we don't need anybody.

NEEDS:

Left Tackle
Left Guard

WANTS:

Free Safety; with more range
Running Back; with more punch in short yardage
Defensive End; if Kerney doesn't come back

DEPTH:

Nose Tackle; to rest Jackson
Strong Safety; for the future

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 12:37 AM
I disagree with Shiver. Demorrio Williams is our best linebacker. He just needs to bulk up a little bit more, but it's hard for him, he can't keep weight on. He leads our team in tackles whenever he is on the field, he is disruptive and causes lots of turnovers. He's a very sure tackler, rarely misses, and even at 225 or so he causes lots of problems.

He doesn't get off blocks well from OL (not many do) but he also struggles with bigger TEs. He has incredible instincts, and blows up a LOT of plays in the backfield. He reads cutback lanes MUCH better than Shiver gives him credit for, and fills them up most of the time. Yes, he can over pursue, but he can also run with most RBs and WRs in the league. He excels in coverage, and can run down any ball carrier from behind. (He ran 50+ yards right on Jerious Norwood's tail) before Norwood pulled away at the end. You can't teach speed like that, and he plays the game very well. I think he's getting the shaft here in ATL, and if we let him go, he's going to kill us. If we think Chris Draft hurts us when he plays us, Demorrio will destroy us.

As far as needs, LT and LG are definitely 1 and 2, but I say FS is a need as well. We don't have one. Crocker cost us TONS of points last season because he came under instead of staying over. If he were the Strong Safety he'd have been great, but he wasn't, we need a coverage FS, and this draft has a couple. Look for Zimmer to push for one. But look for ATL to go Offensive Line early and often. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted 3 OL. Oh, and a goal line back, that's something I want, but it's almost a need. Without TJ our redzone production was PITIFUL. I want to re-sign him, if Washington doesn't, either that or draft Leonard.

d34ng3l021
01-23-2007, 12:43 AM
FS is definetly a need. We got beat deep SO many times this season. I agree with everything else.


I also think Demorrio Williams is a good playmaker, but like other people said, he needs to bulken up.

And lil, I dont like the Leonard pick...and you better find someone for Russell.

d34ng3l021
01-23-2007, 01:12 AM
How much speed do you think Laron Landry would have in Madden?

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 01:38 AM
FS is definetly a need. We got beat deep SO many times this season. I agree with everything else.


I also think Demorrio Williams is a good playmaker, but like other people said, he needs to bulken up.

And lil, I dont like the Leonard pick...and you better find someone for Russell.
Why don't you like Leonard? And I'd say 86 or so on Madden for Landry. He's not overly fast, I wouldn't doubt Demorrio would torch him in a foot race.

But Leonard is a baller, he's the next A-Train, he's a friggin beast. BIG dude, VERY powerful, amazing blocker, and can catch exceptionally well. I wouldn't doubt if he goes round 2 on Draft day. His capability as a goal line back is great.

d34ng3l021
01-23-2007, 01:44 AM
FS is definetly a need. We got beat deep SO many times this season. I agree with everything else.


I also think Demorrio Williams is a good playmaker, but like other people said, he needs to bulken up.

And lil, I dont like the Leonard pick...and you better find someone for Russell.
Why don't you like Leonard? And I'd say 86 or so on Madden for Landry. He's not overly fast, I wouldn't doubt Demorrio would torch him in a foot race.

But Leonard is a baller, he's the next A-Train, he's a friggin beast. BIG dude, VERY powerful, amazing blocker, and can catch exceptionally well. I wouldn't doubt if he goes round 2 on Draft day. His capability as a goal line back is great.

86? Thats disgusting. I need fast guys as safety cause its the position I use. I have like 6 user picks in 6 games with Michael Huff so far 8) . I wouldnt achieve the same with Landry. Nelson, definetly.

I wouldnt have a problem with Leonard, and I think he is gonna be a great fullback (man his leaps over defenders are great), but I think we have other needs than an all around FB (hey that sounds familiar...). Maybe if he drops far enough. I drafted him in Madden because he dropped to the 7th round for some reason (he was projected 2-3). So at that time, I had 3 more than capable FBs with Griffith, Vickers (he is like 77 overall but progresses hella well. Hadda sign him when Griffith got injured) and Brian Leonard. I traded Griffith and started Leonard. Hes too good in Madden.

Shiver
01-23-2007, 03:08 AM
Petrino's offense has not been based around the Full back position, I don't know that we even resign Griffith. Let alone draft Leonard. Although Leonard could be our 'Bruiser" back.

D-Rod
01-23-2007, 03:14 AM
I'd hate to see Griff leave, but you're right, it's not impossible. Problem is, he's the best young FB in the game, and someone will make him a pretty good offer in FA.

Talking of FB's, it was interesting to see that Kolby Smith (from Louisville) spent some time at FB at Senior Bowl practice. Could be an interesting replacement for Griff... actually quite similar to him in many ways (but without the fumble problems). 4th round, perhaps. He'd be able to take the power running role, and develop as a FB. Perhaps Freddie Mac could take front line duty at FB for a year...

falconsrule
01-23-2007, 07:40 AM
LT is our biggest need and I would say FS is our next....If we can trade schaub for a 2-3 round pick I would be satisfied with that but I dont see to many teams who will give us a 1-3 for Schaub....I say we take a LT in the 1st and draft a FS in the 2nd or visa versa....Asfar as Power RB...Remember Marlion Jackson had a pretty good preseason but he really didnt get a chance to show us what he could do(along with alot of other players under "jim mora")and we probally could bring T.J. Duckett back because T.J. was a pretty good back until we went to the zone blocking scheme and im also thinking griffith probally want sign back but he would be another option.

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 12:26 PM
I don't know, but Brian Leonard is the best FB available and he'd be a great pickup in round 3 imo.

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 12:35 PM
One of the most impressive defensive backs on the field was definitely Eric Weddle of Utah, who was intense, showed some leadership qualities and made a number of nice plays versus the run that drew positive notice from the coaches. Say what you want about him but Weddle is simply a football player and the type of guy who will help some team one way or another.

I really like this guy, I have had him targeted for months, and I love it, I want him in ATL if we can manage.

Also impressive was Johnnie Lee Higgins of U.T.E.P., who ran smooth routes, showed great speed and quickness and was terrific when it came to leaping ability and body control. Chris Davis of Florida St. ran very good routes, was aggressive and attacked the ball and also worked as a punt returner.

Both of these are guys I've been talking about, and Chris Davis is going to be a major impact for where he will be drafted.

Along the offensive line Central Michigan's Joe Staley was athletic and displayed excellent feet in pass pro while Arron Sears of Tennessee was quick off the snap and played with good pad level. Justin Blalock of Texas saw action at both tackle and guard

Any of those would help our team greatly.

Shiver
01-23-2007, 03:16 PM
According to both Mike Mayock and Pat Kirwan, Levi Brown has been a beast, and has virtually assured a top-15 selection. Good thing; we could draft him. Bad thing; he could overshoot past us to Houston or Arizona. :?

ATLDirtyBirds
01-23-2007, 03:20 PM
According to both Mike Mayock and Pat Kirwan, Levi Brown has been a beast, and has virtually assured a top-15 selection. Good thing; we could draft him. Bad thing; he could overshoot past us to Houston or Arizona. :?

Which might land us Adrian

Shiver
01-23-2007, 03:27 PM
According to both Mike Mayock and Pat Kirwan, Levi Brown has been a beast, and has virtually assured a top-15 selection. Good thing; we could draft him. Bad thing; he could overshoot past us to Houston or Arizona. :?

Which might land us Adrian

Those are my top two guys, well, Joe Thomas and Calvin Johnson, but in terms of realistic options I like Brown and Peterson.

Shiver
01-23-2007, 03:32 PM
http://www.zshare.net/download/bobby_senior_bowl-mp3.html


There is the SIRIUS interview with Bobby Petrino. Specifically, I was intent to hear what he had to say about Michael Vick. He mentioned what we alreadly know; strong arm, amazing athlete, quick release. But what he mentioned that they need to work with him is his work in the pocket. It seems more evident that pocket awareness will be stressed. He mentioned that he needs to work with him to make sure he drops to the right depth on a consistent basis and be in the right place in the pocket. Phil Simms sent his son to Louisville because Bobby Petrino was the best developer of Quarterbacks.

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 03:48 PM
Well, we have a LOT to look forward to. I can't wait to see how this plays out. I would be fine with getting a LT @ 10...but All Day would be incredible as well. Peterson + Norwood + Vick = 4000 rushing yards / season. I mean we'd have more rushing than most teams in the NFL would in total offense.

Vick = 1000
Norwood = 1500
Peterson = 1500

I mean that's potential, and I know it's not possible to REALLY happen, but we'd EASILY have the #1 rush in the league for the rest of time, and would allow Vick to move up from #32 in pass attempts, because our RBs average would go from 3.5 to 6.3 Dunn to Norwood...then we have Peterson who has more power than most power backs, and has the top end speed to take it to the house every run, not like Norwood, but oh well.

Shiver
01-23-2007, 04:35 PM
I don't want Michael Vick to be a 1,000 yard rusher. That means that he is abandoning the pocket too much. I think an emphasis is being put on making Michael more of a true Quarterback, using less of the run/pass option boots that Greg Knapp used. A more consistent passing Michael Vick, with 500-ish rushing yards, will win more games than the kind of player he was last year.

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 05:14 PM
I don't want Michael Vick to be a 1,000 yard rusher. That means that he is abandoning the pocket too much. I think an emphasis is being put on making Michael more of a true Quarterback, using less of the run/pass option boots that Greg Knapp used. A more consistent passing Michael Vick, with 500-ish rushing yards, will win more games than the kind of player he was last year.
I agree...but only to an extent. I think his best year came last year if so many passes weren't dropped. He looked MUCH better last season, and still ran for 1000 yards. I'd love to see him about 700 with an additional 700 or so passing yards That'd be good.

D-Rod
01-23-2007, 05:22 PM
well, shiv, it is looking good for levi. must say i'm thrilled too. scott had only good things to say about brown, and particularly about his major concern - feet and lateral movement.

keep it up, levi.

but yes, the concern is that he might do so well that houston take him (doubt he does enough to deserve cards at #5!). however, i suspect that kubiak will be too closely linked to the denver philosophy to take an OT early. hoorah. leave him to us (if he keeps it up...).

Shiver
01-23-2007, 06:37 PM
I don't want Michael Vick to be a 1,000 yard rusher. That means that he is abandoning the pocket too much. I think an emphasis is being put on making Michael more of a true Quarterback, using less of the run/pass option boots that Greg Knapp used. A more consistent passing Michael Vick, with 500-ish rushing yards, will win more games than the kind of player he was last year.
I agree...but only to an extent. I think his best year came last year if so many passes weren't dropped. He looked MUCH better last season, and still ran for 1000 yards. I'd love to see him about 700 with an additional 700 or so passing yards That'd be good.

I just want him to be more consistent. In the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Dallas games he didn't run that much. It's not a good thing that over 50% of his touchdown passes came in just those three games. We need more of that Michael Vick, on a more consistent basis.

iloxygenil
01-23-2007, 09:26 PM
Oh I know that isn't a good thing, but I just think if you look back, those were the games when our OL and WRs were more consistent. It's crazy, how much 1 man can do to help a team and still get put on blast.

Shiver
01-23-2007, 09:42 PM
well, shiv, it is looking good for levi. must say i'm thrilled too. scott had only good things to say about brown, and particularly about his major concern - feet and lateral movement.

keep it up, levi.

but yes, the concern is that he might do so well that houston take him (doubt he does enough to deserve cards at #5!). however, i suspect that kubiak will be too closely linked to the denver philosophy to take an OT early. hoorah. leave him to us (if he keeps it up...).


I want a LT in round one, if there isn't value in Rich McKay's eyes, trade down. Atlanta hasn't drafted a first round lineman since '93 and '92! :shock: That was Bob Whitfield and Lincoln Kennedy. It has been far too long. Look at the Left Tackles in the divisional round of the playoffs;

Jammal Brown - 13th overall
Tarik Glenn - 19th overall
Walter Jones - 6th overall
William "Tra" Thomas - 11th overall
Jonathan Ogden - 4th overall
Marcus McNeil - 50th overall
John Tait - 14th overall
Matt Light - 48th overall

See a trend there? Yeah, with exception of McNeil and Light, six of the eight playoff teams had a first round Left Tackle. Even the exceptions were 2nd round picks!

d34ng3l021
01-23-2007, 11:56 PM
well, shiv, it is looking good for levi. must say i'm thrilled too. scott had only good things to say about brown, and particularly about his major concern - feet and lateral movement.

keep it up, levi.

but yes, the concern is that he might do so well that houston take him (doubt he does enough to deserve cards at #5!). however, i suspect that kubiak will be too closely linked to the denver philosophy to take an OT early. hoorah. leave him to us (if he keeps it up...).


I want a LT in round one, if there isn't value in Rich McKay's eyes, trade down. Atlanta hasn't drafted a first round lineman since '93 and '92! :shock: That was Bob Whitfield and Lincoln Kennedy. It has been far too long. Look at the Left Tackles in the divisional round of the playoffs;

Jammal Brown - 13th overall
Tarik Glenn - 19th overall
Walter Jones - 6th overall
William "Tra" Thomas - 11th overall
Jonathan Ogden - 4th overall
Marcus McNeil - 50th overall
John Tait - 14th overall
Matt Light - 48th overall

See a trend there? Yeah, with exception of McNeil and Light, six of the eight playoff teams had a first round Left Tackle. Even the exceptions were 2nd round picks!

zomg.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 03:39 AM
couldn't agree more. there's no realistic way to fix LT in Free Agency, so it has to be the draft.

The Good News:

It is becoming clear from Senior Bowl practices that there are three legitimate 1st round LTs: Brown, Ugoh, and Staley.

I'd be happy with any one of the three. Problem is the value, since none of them right now would really be worth the #10 pick (but yes, Brown could/will be if he continues in this vein - though there is some nasty talk of the Dolphins wanting to draft linemen. it would kill me for Brown to prove himself an elite tackle, only to get picked one before us! in fact, the three teams ahead of us could all do with an OT!).

Shiver, you've suggested the trade down, as has McKay. I'm keen on that too. But another team has to have a reason to trade up with us - and with us, rather than another team. Therefore a team would only really trade up with us to grab a player they thought the team after us - the 49ers - might grab. So let's look at how that might work out...

The Niners main needs, according to Scott, are WR, CB and NT. Now here's the problem. There's not going to be any NT worth trading up for. Perhaps if Leon Hall falls - as is looking likely - some team might want to grab him ahead of SanFran, but somehow I doubt it. There are plenty of other CB options for teams later in the draft.

The best chance, IMO, is that some team falls in love with either Ginn or Jarrett, and is worried that the Niners will take him. However, even then, there is such depth to this WR class that a trade up wouldn't be a very sensible decision.

Some team might be more willing to trade up if we give them a very good deal value-wise, but that rather diminishes the point of trading down. In short, a trade down would be nice, but I suspect that we will be struggling for partners.

Of course, the best result would be a mid-late 1st for Schaub... :D

----------------------------

My personal opinion - when it comes to a need as central as LT, what matters is the player, not the pick. If our scouts think that Brown, Ugoh, or Staley are able to succeed at LT in the NFL, then they are worth the #10 pick in the draft. It's that simple. I know that McKay likes to be in a position where he doesn't have to draft for need, but in this case the state of Free Agency may force his hand. So let's hope that all three excel over the next couple of months.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 03:55 AM
Looking at the trade down again, and particularly the WR option, I think that the best bet would be the Titans, at #19. They have a range of needs - possibly too many to want to surrender picks in a trade up - but they are certainly lacking a no.1 WR. If they decide that they want to give Young a real weapon, they might fall in love either with Jarrett (whom Norm Chow coached, remember) or with Teddy Ginn (to make use of Young's deep ball). It is not likely, but it is the most likely trade scenario I can come up with...

In that case, #19 would be PERFECT position for us. The 9 spot drop should (by the chart) get us the Titans 2nd and more, though I doubt we'd get that much.

Then we'd be in position to select whichever of Brown (if still there), Ugoh or Staley (or Sears, though I'd put him a level below) we preferred. The other teams competing with us for an LT are mainly below that. The Bills could take an OT at #12, and the Stillers just might look at Brown as a RT at #15, but otherwise no-one between 10 and 19 is likely to want an OT.

As I've said, a successful LT is never bad value, but if we get an extra 2nd to trade down and still get our guy, that would be the sweetness and the light.

Shiver
01-24-2007, 03:55 AM
I remember in '02, the Bengals were scolded for "reaching" on Levi Jones. Now, he is a pro-bowl caliber Left Tackle, on one of the premier offenses in football.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 06:44 AM
FREE AGENCY ISSUES

Patrick Kerney is resigned, for a contract that is rewarding but not suffocating, and reflects his age.

Griffith is resigned.

Free Safety is also addressed: I'm not sure who, but someone like Ken Hamlin would be great addition. Deon Grant is another possibility. Also, I wouldn't rule out McKay expecting Crocker to be improved in his deep duties from last year. It was his first year playing FS, remember, and he seemed to have resolved the issues by the end of the year. He has the speed, it was his awareness bringing us down. We shall see, but I don't see us addressing FS in the 1st round of the draft.

Left Guard is the key FA acquisition. The three top targets are Steinbach, Dielman and Dockery. All three would be major upgrades. Steinbach will demand more than we can afford, Dielman will also be very costly, so I'm going with the more affordable Derrick Dockery. He's a 340lb mauler in the middle, and will both dominate in the run game and shore up the pocket against the big guys who have been flicking away Lehr for the past two years.

Hartwell stays (one last chance to stay healthy and perform, otherwise he can be cut more easily in 2008) as does Dunn (three mill isn't too bad for what he contributes).

Demorrio Williams is signed to a 1st round tender, so stays. But unless Brooking really tails off this coming year, we are going to have to accept that Demo is with us for the final year.

Lelie is not resigned. He still thinks he deserves No.1 money, and we send him packing.

Mathis, sadly, will surely retire. I'd like to resign Cash, and see what he can do once he is finally healthy.

I'd love to add a Schaub trade in, but that seems unlikely for the moment.

POTENTIAL CUTS

These guys could be cut, depending on how the salary cap is shaping up.

Jason Webster - he'd probably make a pretty solid nickelback, but he is ridiuclously injury prone, and far too expensive to be a no.3. he's worn out his welcome in atlanta, and it will be a good way for the new staff to draw a line after the mora era.

Eric Beverly - he's just not a TE in Petrino's system, and he's paid too much.

Wayne Gandy - he was not getting it done at the end of the season. He seems to have finally given in to age. $4 mill cap hit can be instantly removed without penalty.

Allen Rossum - he was explosive at times last season, but bombed when he was given CB responsibilities. May be given another chance, but Jennings might be ready to take over. Being paid like an elite returner, so that what he should deliver.

THE DRAFT

First round: Maybe we take Levi Brown at #10. I'd be happy with that. But McKay has stressed that he'd be keen to trade down, and I've spotted a potential trade down option: Titans offer #19, and their 2nd round pick, in return for #10. They don't have a no.1 WR, and should look to give Young a major receiving weapon. They could be looking either for Jarrett (whom OC Norm Chow coached at USC) or for Teddy Ginn (whose speed would utilize Young's deep ball). The 49ers (who pick behind us) are also targetting WR, so the Titans would want to jump them to get their man. Why do we do it? Because between #10 and #19, there is only one team likely to pick O-line, and that is the Bills, who have greater needs, principally at CB (with Clements leaving).

Trades are always difficult to predict, but you have to admit that this is feasible and sensible.

Therefore, at #19, the Falcons have the choice of Levi Brown, Tony Ugoh, and Joe Staley (who will rocket up into the first round, just watch). Any of those three would do me, but I'm going to select: LEVI BROWN, Penn State.

Second round (A): At this point, there are going to be a bevy of talented passrushers still left on the table. That fills a need for us perfectly. We saw this season that if Abe or Kerney are injured, our DE depth is solid but with very limited passrush ability. If we can add a talented pass-rush specialist to the depth of davis, carrington and mallard, we would be set at DE, and he could be groomed to replace Kerney and Abe as a starter in a couple of years.

Jarvis Moss, Charles Johnson, Quintin Moses, Victor Abiamiri - there's no doubt that they are all first round talent, but ask yourself this: with Jamaal Anderson and Gaines Adams also thrown in, are SIX passrushers (seven if you include Carricker)really going to go in the first round? I doubt it. One will fall. Even in the worst case scenario, we are left with a choice of Lamarr Woodley or Anthony Spencer, who would also fit the passrushing need.

It's impossible to know which one will fall, but my choice is VICTOR ABIAMIRI, Notre Dame.

Second round (B): Now the value is all about Cornerback, and that is a position we need to fill now with the departure of Webster. Again, there are a number of different options, of whom one is likely to fall: Josh Wilson, Aaron Ross, Chris Houston, Fred Bennett. They're all being touted as high 2nd round, possibly even late 1st, but it is very unlikely that all of them have gone by this point. I'm not going to be too ambitious, and I'm going to take arguably the lowest rated of them, who doesn't have the greatest college production but has major upside: FRED BENNETT, South Carolina.

Third round: Now the value has evened out a little, but in my mind it is time for our power RB. This is where we took Norwood last year, and this is where we will find his future running mate. There are two options that stand out: Tony Hunt, and Kolby Smith. Hunt has the edge in pure power, but Smith is quicker, a much better receiver, and has worked with Petrino before. The pick is KOLBY SMITH, Louisville. This is perfect: we have a stable of Dunn, Norwood and Smith, but it is very affordable because the rookies are only on 3rd round contracts (around $500k).

Fourth round (A): Now it is time to take a low-risk gamble on a receiver. Even if Roddy and Jenks develop into solid starters (as I expect), that only leaves us with Finneran as a 3rd WR and Jennings as the 4th. Petrino will want more options than that. At this stage in the draft, we are looking for small school talent with the chance to really blossom. David Ball has put up record-setting performances throughout college, and Jacoby Jones is another guy from a small school who is ready to make his mark. They both impressed in the Shrine game. Some people will say that they could be grabbed later, but thanks to the impact of Colston, I doubt it. From the larger schools, Steve Smith (USC) is an option, if still there. What we need is someone consistent, with great hands. That man is DAVID BALL, New Hampshire. Can anybody say 4,655 yards, 58 TDs?

Fourth round (B): Now we address depth on the O-line. With Dockery added, Lehr retained as OG/C depth, Clabo passable, and Ojinnaka looking more like an OG than OT, our depth inside looks fine. What we need is another OT. It's difficult to say who will be available at this point, but I'm going to say - JAMES MARTEN, Boston College. That college has a great Oline pedigree, and Marten has really shown his nasty streak at the Senior Bowl. He's more RT than LT, and has plenty of room to bulk up. Perhaps he'll be the man to take over from Weiner in a couple of years. At worst, he'll be a solid quality backup.

Fifth round: Time for another depth-filler, this time on a safety, to be groomed. I see Crocker as first line of depth at both safety positions, but there is little after him. J.D. Nelson of Oregon comes to mind, as does Marvin White of TCU. I'm looking for a serious athletic talent, who perhaps hasn't produced as expected, or from a small school. Give me: J.D. NELSON, Oregon.

Sixth round traded to NO for Gandy.

Seventh round: Finally, we turn to depth on the D-line. Personally, I'm excited about TJ, and look forward to seeing what he can do. But then, last year I was excited about Shropshire, and he regressed this year. Maybe Shropshire will emerge from his sophomore slump? Maybe TJ will really emerge? Who knows? But that's the point. We don't know, so we can't rely on them. We need to draft some more depth. But who? Again, very difficult to call. I'm going to take a player few of you might of heard of, but he's got the ideal build to replace Grady Jackson, and really tore up the Shrine game: QUINTIN ECHOLS, Kansas State.

FINAL DEPTH CHART

QB: Vick, Schaub, Shockley

RB: Norwood (yes, the starter!), Dunn, Kolby Smith

FB: Griffith, McCrary

TE: Crumpler, Blakley, Fells

WR: White, Jenkins, Finneran, Ball, Jennings, Youngblood

LT: Levi Brown, Omiyale

LG: Derrick Dockery, Clabo

C: McClure, Lehr, King (both also OG depth)

RG: Forney, Ojinnaka (also OT depth)

RT: Weiner, James Marten

LE: Kerney, Davis, Mallard

RE: Abraham, Victor Abiamiri, Carrington

UT: Coleman, Babineaux, Shropshire

NT: Grady Jackson, Tommy Jackson, Quintin Echols

LOLB: Boley, Reese

MLB: Hartwell, Beck

ROLB: Brooking, Williams

CB: Hall, Williams, Fred Bennett, Cash, Lowe

SS: Milloy, Crocker, Nelson

FS: Ken Hamlin, Crocker, Lowe

K: Morten Anderson

P: Michael Koenon

There, ready for a SuperBowl run! :D

Now, any comments? Constructive criticism as well as positive comments welcome.

PS. If you really object to the trade down, we'd just draft Levi Brown at #10, and keep Webster for nickel instead of draft Bennett with the trade-down compensation (and grab a CB in the 4th to develop).

iloxygenil
01-24-2007, 09:49 AM
Looks like you really put a lot of thought into this. I like the effort, but imo the players you have us picking just aren't the makeup I'd like to see of this Falcons team. I think if All Day is available at #10 we'd be foolish to trade down away from him, I know we need a LT, and there are a few good ones, but none who are supreme except for Joe, who is going to go VERY early. Unless somehow Levi proves to be THAT good, and people are worried about Joe's knee or something. Then he could slip to the #10 spot, but I just don't see 3 or 4 teams needing OL help passing on Joe Thomas.

I know it's not a glamour pick, but I really do think we need to go OL in the first round, even if we select Levi @ #10, its a reach, but we need linemen badly. I think my favorite scenario is to trade down and get JUSTIN BLALOCK. Then pickup an additional 2nd or 3rd rounder (depending how far down we go) get a 2nd and 3rd for Schaub. Leaving us with 2 2nds and 3 3rds or 3 2nds and 2 3rds. Anyway, going with the first scenario of 2 2nds and 3 3rds, it would give the Falcons the opportunity to take Blalock in the first round, then in the 2nd they could get whichever the top LT was available, hopefully Tony Ugoh, or Joe Staley, if one of those guy see a slip come draft day. Then we'd be able to start addressing some other needs. There are a plethora of 2nd round options, we keep hearing all this talk about players really impressing scouts...well...fact is...only 32 of them can go first round...even then...there are already prolly 20 players who are LOCKED into the first round no doubters. So that leaves us with about 30 more players with 1st round talent trying to fit into 12 spots. This draft looked pathetic before 40 juniors declared, and about 15 of those are 1st round caliber players with another 15-20 being first day locks.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 10:31 AM
Sorry Oxy, but there's no way i would take OG ahead of OT in the 1st.

1. OG is MUCH more easily addressed in Free Agency that LT. Steinbach, Dielman and Dockery are all available. There is very little at LT in FA.

2. In your scenario, you are hoping that Ugoh and Staley drop to the mid-2nd. It might happen, but if it doesn't - more likely that not - then we continue to be screwed at LT for another season.

Unless we decide that Steinbach is worthy of playing LT, and are willing to shell out $6 mill per year to get him, then we are going to have to draft a 1st round LT.

I still don't know whether Brown, Ugoh, or Staley will turn out best. But I really do think that we need to draft one of them, and it won't be in the 2nd round.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 10:37 AM
I won't be surprised if, long run, the 2nd best LT ends up being Doug Free or James Marten. Maybe even someone like Mario Henderson. I'm not sold on Ugoh/Brown becoming dominant tackles, and while I like Joe Staley's LT potential, the more I look, the more I have a hunch that he might be better off with a shift inside, but will have to wait and see on that.

As of now, though, if I had to take someone relative to draft value and their potential for LT, after Joe Thomas, I'd go with Joe Staley, followed by perhaps Tony Ugoh, then Levi Brown.

hmm, not what i wanted to read from someone as well respected as toonster. it's annoying, there's just so much room for dispute with tackles...

iloxygenil
01-24-2007, 12:33 PM
Sorry Oxy, but there's no way i would take OG ahead of OT in the 1st.

1. OG is MUCH more easily addressed in Free Agency that LT. Steinbach, Dielman and Dockery are all available. There is very little at LT in FA.

2. In your scenario, you are hoping that Ugoh and Staley drop to the mid-2nd. It might happen, but if it doesn't - more likely that not - then we continue to be screwed at LT for another season.

Unless we decide that Steinbach is worthy of playing LT, and are willing to shell out $6 mill per year to get him, then we are going to have to draft a 1st round LT.

I still don't know whether Brown, Ugoh, or Staley will turn out best. But I really do think that we need to draft one of them, and it won't be in the 2nd round.
Justin Blalock may be the best OL in the draft. He's playing OG and OT. We could see where he fit better for us. But when you can get an elite OL you get it. I see Blalock as one of 2 ELITE offensive linemen in this draft. I see Brown as excellent, but not ELITE. If we got the chance to get him that'd be great. Not to mention who knows what exactly we'll get from Schaub, so I'm not sure. But when there are 2 elite talents then there are 4 or 5 very good ones atLEAST 1 of those has to fall to our pick in the 2nd round. There aren't that many teams who are going to take tackles and there will always be a question that causes one of them or two of them to fall. Blalock is the kind of OG I want, he blocked for Vince Young and knows how to protect a mobile QB. That's what we need. Guys to keep a pocket and keep their assignments instead of worrying so much about where the QB is and causing people to get knocked into the QB.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 02:10 PM
some more good stuff on Levi, from Scott: "Along the offensive line Levi Brown of Penn St. is working hard, even coming out before practice started for some one-on-one coaching, and it's paying off because he's gotten better each day."

Keep it coming, Levi.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 02:16 PM
Justin Blalock may be the best OL in the draft. He's playing OG and OT. We could see where he fit better for us. But when you can get an elite OL you get it. I see Blalock as one of 2 ELITE offensive linemen in this draft. I see Brown as excellent, but not ELITE. If we got the chance to get him that'd be great. Not to mention who knows what exactly we'll get from Schaub, so I'm not sure. But when there are 2 elite talents then there are 4 or 5 very good ones atLEAST 1 of those has to fall to our pick in the 2nd round. There aren't that many teams who are going to take tackles and there will always be a question that causes one of them or two of them to fall. Blalock is the kind of OG I want, he blocked for Vince Young and knows how to protect a mobile QB. That's what we need. Guys to keep a pocket and keep their assignments instead of worrying so much about where the QB is and causing people to get knocked into the QB.

You're not considering my point: it is MUCH easier to address OG in free agency than in the draft. We don't have unlimited picks, so we have to prioritise. Hence OT is much more important in the draft.

As for Blalock, I really don't think he is elite. I'd like him on the team, for sure, but not ahead of a top class tackle. Have a look at this thread for some other opinions. If Toonster is to be believed, he may even be available with our 2nd round pick. I somehow doubt it, but it's not impossible.

http://nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34144

Shiver
01-24-2007, 02:26 PM
I don't even think Blaylock is that great. I think there is supremely better odds that he slips to our 2nd, then Ugoh or Staley.

D-Rod
01-24-2007, 02:33 PM
I don't even think Blaylock is that great. I think there is supremely better odds that he slips to our 2nd, then Ugoh or Staley.

Agreed - main problem is that a lot of teams ahead of us in the 2nd round need an OT... as can be seen from Scott's mock.

Shiver
01-24-2007, 03:26 PM
I wonder if any team signs Matt Schaub to a first round tender?

iloxygenil
01-24-2007, 04:25 PM
I wonder if any team signs Matt Schaub to a first round tender?
I'm ready for this speculation to be over. It's pissing me off because too many people on this MB are like Schaub haters and don't value a QB at his proper value because they all say he's unproven, but he's infinitely more proven than any QB comin in via the draft. But I think it may be draft day before we see a move made, which would be really annoying.

Shiver
01-24-2007, 09:37 PM
I think what tender the Falcons sign him to will be indicative of how they plan to use him. If they sign him to the (1st & 3rd) he isn't going anywhere.

Shiver
01-24-2007, 11:36 PM
I hope you guys saw Levi Brown on Path to the Draft. Extensive game-tape on Levi Brown, top-15 pick.


8)

d34ng3l021
01-25-2007, 12:21 AM
I hope you guys saw Levi Brown on Path to the Draft. Extensive game-tape on Levi Brown, top-15 pick.


8)

lol. Dude. Brown and then Grubbs.

zomg.

SimonRath
01-25-2007, 06:14 AM
i know you guys have been saying that the Falcons are not gonna draft a WR on day 1 unless he has the name Calvin Johnson.. Buut maybe, just maybe, if Sydney Rice falls to us in round 2(maybe).. would you guys consider getting him, especially if we trade Schaub for another round 2 pick.

iloxygenil
01-25-2007, 09:59 AM
i know you guys have been saying that the Falcons are not gonna draft a WR on day 1 unless he has the name Calvin Johnson.. Buut maybe, just maybe, if Sydney Rice falls to us in round 2(maybe).. would you guys consider getting him, especially if we trade Schaub for another round 2 pick.
You have to consider a guy like that. He's a great talent, and at a position of need. So, we have to consider him. But to be honest, I'd rather have Johnnie Lee Higgins, he's my top choice WR, aside from Teddy Ginn.

SimonRath
01-25-2007, 12:00 PM
i know you guys have been saying that the Falcons are not gonna draft a WR on day 1 unless he has the name Calvin Johnson.. Buut maybe, just maybe, if Sydney Rice falls to us in round 2(maybe).. would you guys consider getting him, especially if we trade Schaub for another round 2 pick.
You have to consider a guy like that. He's a great talent, and at a position of need. So, we have to consider him. But to be honest, I'd rather have Johnnie Lee Higgins, he's my top choice WR, aside from Teddy Ginn.

ted Ginn?? i dont like him at all... all he can do is run fast... My man would be Davis Ball in the later rounds... he not very fast, not a deep threat. but he is very dependable and can catch really good.

D-Rod
01-25-2007, 02:55 PM
hmmm, food for thought.

at senior bowl practices, gbn draft report has described levi as very good in tight, but lacking lateral movement in space.

and sigmund bloom just said that he thinks ugoh is now the #2 LT prospect, showing great footwork.

and yet, still, there is mayock, who is all over levi.

so many different opinions. but the only one which really counts is the falcons OT scout... if only he would tell us what he thinks! :P

iloxygenil
01-25-2007, 03:06 PM
I really like Ugoh, but they are saying that Levi is pushing into the top 10.

Shiver
01-25-2007, 03:08 PM
I have heard varying things regarding Ugoh. Some people say his stock is rising, some people say he is having a rough Senior Bowl.

Shiver
01-25-2007, 05:24 PM
Good news;

Petrino said Vick has been in steady communication with new offensive coordinator Hue Jackson, mainly to outline off-season plans and schedules.

"I know how he feels and what his teammates feel about him and how important it is for him to be successful and be one of the best players in the NFL," Petrino said. "He's going to be very dedicated and motivated going into the off-season."

Hopefully all of the hoopla that has surrounded him, the trade talks, the rumors, the speculation will be the key towards unlocking the Michael Vick that needs to be unlocked.

scar988
01-25-2007, 06:42 PM
hopefully thisis the average week for Vick up to training camp:
Monday - weights with other skill players
Tuesday through Friday - film study and throwing practice with WR's and TE's and RB's.
Saturday - rest
Sunday - film study

d34ng3l021
01-25-2007, 08:30 PM
Good news;

Petrino said Vick has been in steady communication with new offensive coordinator Hue Jackson, mainly to outline off-season plans and schedules.

"I know how he feels and what his teammates feel about him and how important it is for him to be successful and be one of the best players in the NFL," Petrino said. "He's going to be very dedicated and motivated going into the off-season."

Hopefully all of the hoopla that has surrounded him, the trade talks, the rumors, the speculation will be the key towards unlocking the Michael Vick that needs to be unlocked.

Maybe. He seems to work well under fire.

iloxygenil
01-25-2007, 11:17 PM
I just want the friggin team to rock it this year. I want a defense that makes everyone forget about Michael Vick. I want a defense that just tears teams apart and makes people drop their jaw. I wanna see hits that leave teams scared to cross the middle and run those stupid skinny posts. I want a Safety who can cover deep center, but when he does come up, he just pops you, not every time, but like once a game or two just so you see it on tape all week long.

Shiver
01-25-2007, 11:27 PM
I concur. I think our two "needs" are Free Safety and Left Tackle. So in the draft, in which ever order, I want those to be our top two picks. According to PFW; Atlanta's coaches are planning to move Chris Crocker to back-up Strong Safety.

Ideally though, I will disagree, we want to be hearing about Michael Vick. We want to hear that he became more rounded and consistent as a player. If Zimmer can work his "water into wine" routine on defense, and Michael Vick takes to Petrino/Jackson's offense, we can play with anyone in the NFC.

iloxygenil
01-26-2007, 09:04 AM
That's very true, but I want him to be the undertone. You'll always hear about the QB, but I want a defense that's #1 in the NFL and in the paper.

Shiver
01-26-2007, 02:51 PM
I keep flip-flopping on Reggie Nelson vs Laron Landry. Apparently that is what we are targeting with our first pick. Then we move Chris Crocker behind Lawyer Milloy at Strong Safety. That is from PFW.

Merkurius
01-26-2007, 05:20 PM
i really prefer landry. i dont wanna go based on one game's performance but during each team's bowl games, landry looked a lot sharper than nelson did. i keep hearing and reading about the pros of nelson but he didnt perform well in the one game where i really focused on his performance. whereas landry played physical and covered well against perhaps the best qb entering the draft this year. i must admit i despise both lsu and fla but respect the players coming out of the sec because they truly perform top notch in the nfl.

as for the whole lt/o-line first round talk, i really wish this organization would go for the standout tackle but i just dont see it happening. i would love to trade down and pick up levi brown who is supposedly kicking butt down in mobile but i just dont see the move being made. i also want something for schaub. its obvious what his role on the team is and for the sake of vick knowing there is someone waiting on your heels to take your job if you fail in the new offense isnt so reassuring. the media is blowing everything with vick out of proportion and the falcons 'fans' who join in and hop on the ludicrous 'trade vick' bandwagon drives me up the wall.

as i was looking through the mock draft on si, i flipped out because they had the falcons going for dwayne jarrett. this better not happen. another wr would be a horrendous choice. i hope roddy plays with the intensity and focus he did in the latter half of the season and i really freaking hope jenkins and white and finn can get confident and the 'swagger' as some call it. dont get me wrong, i dont want a t.o. on this team but like the db position, i think wr should talk some trash and rub it in the face of defenders when they pick up a big first down. the falcons receivers do not do this. i want some momentum shown within the team. i want a defense who plays a little dirty. a defense where after a humiliating loss, the opponent's fans on monday complain about the aggresiveness of the falcons d.

also, if peterson does fall to 10, is there any legit chance we would take him? he is a huge talent but isnt norwood our future back? i think it would just cause more controversy over another position on the team.

and whats the details on kerney? hes getting no media attention. is he leaning on coming back?

im so excited for the season. but as people on the atl falcons forum have been saying constantly, this team just seems to let down when there are high expectations. i hate the feeling i get in the spring on the days leading to the draft anticipating the kickoff of the season wondering what will happen because the falcons in the previous year failed to match expectations. we need to get to the superbowl with vick as our leader.

falconsrule
01-26-2007, 07:10 PM
Looks like Lelie not coming back next season..man this sucks


Jay Glazer of Fox Sports has learned that Atlanta FalconsÂ’ wide receiver Ashley Lelie voided his contract on Friday and is now scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent. He had play-time incentives that allowed him to void the final year remaining on his contract. This likely makes him the top free agent wide out on the open market.

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Lelie became expendable when the Broncos traded for Javon Walker but wanted out before that trade was ever made. Atlanta traded, in essence, RB T.J. Duckett through Washington, for Lelie during the preseason.


Lelie played in 15 games for the Falcons. He had 28 receptions for 430 yards and 1 TD.

Shiver
01-26-2007, 07:28 PM
The "top" free agent? Donte Stallworth? Jay Glazer must owe Lelie's agent, for the free publicity. :roll: I say we use our extra 4th to pick up a 4th receiver.

49ersfan_87
01-26-2007, 07:57 PM
The "top" free agent? Donte Stallworth? Jay Glazer must owe Lelie's agent, for the free publicity. :roll: I say we use our extra 4th to pick up a 4th receiver.

So whats the falcons WR situation like next year, without lelie?

I am assuming jenkins and white as the starters, and finneran as the 3?

iloxygenil
01-26-2007, 09:53 PM
i really prefer landry. i dont wanna go based on one game's performance but during each team's bowl games, landry looked a lot sharper than nelson did. i keep hearing and reading about the pros of nelson but he didnt perform well in the one game where i really focused on his performance. whereas landry played physical and covered well against perhaps the best qb entering the draft this year. i must admit i despise both lsu and fla but respect the players coming out of the sec because they truly perform top notch in the nfl.

as for the whole lt/o-line first round talk, i really wish this organization would go for the standout tackle but i just dont see it happening. i would love to trade down and pick up levi brown who is supposedly kicking butt down in mobile but i just dont see the move being made. i also want something for schaub. its obvious what his role on the team is and for the sake of vick knowing there is someone waiting on your heels to take your job if you fail in the new offense isnt so reassuring. the media is blowing everything with vick out of proportion and the falcons 'fans' who join in and hop on the ludicrous 'trade vick' bandwagon drives me up the wall.

as i was looking through the mock draft on si, i flipped out because they had the falcons going for dwayne jarrett. this better not happen. another wr would be a horrendous choice. i hope roddy plays with the intensity and focus he did in the latter half of the season and i really freaking hope jenkins and white and finn can get confident and the 'swagger' as some call it. dont get me wrong, i dont want a t.o. on this team but like the db position, i think wr should talk some trash and rub it in the face of defenders when they pick up a big first down. the falcons receivers do not do this. i want some momentum shown within the team. i want a defense who plays a little dirty. a defense where after a humiliating loss, the opponent's fans on monday complain about the aggresiveness of the falcons d.

also, if peterson does fall to 10, is there any legit chance we would take him? he is a huge talent but isnt norwood our future back? i think it would just cause more controversy over another position on the team.

and whats the details on kerney? hes getting no media attention. is he leaning on coming back?

im so excited for the season. but as people on the atl falcons forum have been saying constantly, this team just seems to let down when there are high expectations. i hate the feeling i get in the spring on the days leading to the draft anticipating the kickoff of the season wondering what will happen because the falcons in the previous year failed to match expectations. we need to get to the superbowl with vick as our leader.
Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding. Based on their bowl games? Reggie didn't allow a catch. He did botch a run though. Landry allowed a Touchdown and cost his team an interception? His best hit came against his own teammate and he looked like a 5th round project. Reggie allowed nothing in the passing game, that's what we need. laron looks like another strong safety who doesn't finish plays, I don't want him in ATL. I want Reggie, he's the one who plays with intensity.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-27-2007, 06:37 AM
i really prefer landry. i dont wanna go based on one game's performance but during each team's bowl games, landry looked a lot sharper than nelson did. i keep hearing and reading about the pros of nelson but he didnt perform well in the one game where i really focused on his performance. whereas landry played physical and covered well against perhaps the best qb entering the draft this year. i must admit i despise both lsu and fla but respect the players coming out of the sec because they truly perform top notch in the nfl.

as for the whole lt/o-line first round talk, i really wish this organization would go for the standout tackle but i just dont see it happening. i would love to trade down and pick up levi brown who is supposedly kicking butt down in mobile but i just dont see the move being made. i also want something for schaub. its obvious what his role on the team is and for the sake of vick knowing there is someone waiting on your heels to take your job if you fail in the new offense isnt so reassuring. the media is blowing everything with vick out of proportion and the falcons 'fans' who join in and hop on the ludicrous 'trade vick' bandwagon drives me up the wall.

as i was looking through the mock draft on si, i flipped out because they had the falcons going for dwayne jarrett. this better not happen. another wr would be a horrendous choice. i hope roddy plays with the intensity and focus he did in the latter half of the season and i really freaking hope jenkins and white and finn can get confident and the 'swagger' as some call it. dont get me wrong, i dont want a t.o. on this team but like the db position, i think wr should talk some trash and rub it in the face of defenders when they pick up a big first down. the falcons receivers do not do this. i want some momentum shown within the team. i want a defense who plays a little dirty. a defense where after a humiliating loss, the opponent's fans on monday complain about the aggresiveness of the falcons d.

also, if peterson does fall to 10, is there any legit chance we would take him? he is a huge talent but isnt norwood our future back? i think it would just cause more controversy over another position on the team.

and whats the details on kerney? hes getting no media attention. is he leaning on coming back?

im so excited for the season. but as people on the atl falcons forum have been saying constantly, this team just seems to let down when there are high expectations. i hate the feeling i get in the spring on the days leading to the draft anticipating the kickoff of the season wondering what will happen because the falcons in the previous year failed to match expectations. we need to get to the superbowl with vick as our leader.
Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding. Based on their bowl games? Reggie didn't allow a catch. He did botch a run though. Landry allowed a Touchdown and cost his team an interception? His best hit came against his own teammate and he looked like a 5th round project. Reggie allowed nothing in the passing game, that's what we need. laron looks like another strong safety who doesn't finish plays, I don't want him in ATL. I want Reggie, he's the one who plays with intensity.



Landry has been a great player, and a leader of a good defense for the last 4 years. Reggie Nelson has had one great year. Gimme Landry any day of the week.

iloxygenil
01-27-2007, 10:12 AM
i really prefer landry. i dont wanna go based on one game's performance but during each team's bowl games, landry looked a lot sharper than nelson did. i keep hearing and reading about the pros of nelson but he didnt perform well in the one game where i really focused on his performance. whereas landry played physical and covered well against perhaps the best qb entering the draft this year. i must admit i despise both lsu and fla but respect the players coming out of the sec because they truly perform top notch in the nfl.

as for the whole lt/o-line first round talk, i really wish this organization would go for the standout tackle but i just dont see it happening. i would love to trade down and pick up levi brown who is supposedly kicking butt down in mobile but i just dont see the move being made. i also want something for schaub. its obvious what his role on the team is and for the sake of vick knowing there is someone waiting on your heels to take your job if you fail in the new offense isnt so reassuring. the media is blowing everything with vick out of proportion and the falcons 'fans' who join in and hop on the ludicrous 'trade vick' bandwagon drives me up the wall.

as i was looking through the mock draft on si, i flipped out because they had the falcons going for dwayne jarrett. this better not happen. another wr would be a horrendous choice. i hope roddy plays with the intensity and focus he did in the latter half of the season and i really freaking hope jenkins and white and finn can get confident and the 'swagger' as some call it. dont get me wrong, i dont want a t.o. on this team but like the db position, i think wr should talk some trash and rub it in the face of defenders when they pick up a big first down. the falcons receivers do not do this. i want some momentum shown within the team. i want a defense who plays a little dirty. a defense where after a humiliating loss, the opponent's fans on monday complain about the aggresiveness of the falcons d.

also, if peterson does fall to 10, is there any legit chance we would take him? he is a huge talent but isnt norwood our future back? i think it would just cause more controversy over another position on the team.

and whats the details on kerney? hes getting no media attention. is he leaning on coming back?

im so excited for the season. but as people on the atl falcons forum have been saying constantly, this team just seems to let down when there are high expectations. i hate the feeling i get in the spring on the days leading to the draft anticipating the kickoff of the season wondering what will happen because the falcons in the previous year failed to match expectations. we need to get to the superbowl with vick as our leader.
Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding. Based on their bowl games? Reggie didn't allow a catch. He did botch a run though. Landry allowed a Touchdown and cost his team an interception? His best hit came against his own teammate and he looked like a 5th round project. Reggie allowed nothing in the passing game, that's what we need. laron looks like another strong safety who doesn't finish plays, I don't want him in ATL. I want Reggie, he's the one who plays with intensity.



Landry has been a great player, and a leader of a good defense for the last 4 years. Reggie Nelson has had one great year. Gimme Landry any day of the week.
He was great his freshman and sophomore year, his junior and senior years he became complacent and took it all fore granted. He played very lazy, and really looks like a real good Strong Safety, but we have 2 of those already. The only Strong Safety I would want is Aaron Rouse. He's a monster and he'd be better to take over for Milloy than Crocker.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-27-2007, 11:41 AM
i really prefer landry. i dont wanna go based on one game's performance but during each team's bowl games, landry looked a lot sharper than nelson did. i keep hearing and reading about the pros of nelson but he didnt perform well in the one game where i really focused on his performance. whereas landry played physical and covered well against perhaps the best qb entering the draft this year. i must admit i despise both lsu and fla but respect the players coming out of the sec because they truly perform top notch in the nfl.

as for the whole lt/o-line first round talk, i really wish this organization would go for the standout tackle but i just dont see it happening. i would love to trade down and pick up levi brown who is supposedly kicking butt down in mobile but i just dont see the move being made. i also want something for schaub. its obvious what his role on the team is and for the sake of vick knowing there is someone waiting on your heels to take your job if you fail in the new offense isnt so reassuring. the media is blowing everything with vick out of proportion and the falcons 'fans' who join in and hop on the ludicrous 'trade vick' bandwagon drives me up the wall.

as i was looking through the mock draft on si, i flipped out because they had the falcons going for dwayne jarrett. this better not happen. another wr would be a horrendous choice. i hope roddy plays with the intensity and focus he did in the latter half of the season and i really freaking hope jenkins and white and finn can get confident and the 'swagger' as some call it. dont get me wrong, i dont want a t.o. on this team but like the db position, i think wr should talk some trash and rub it in the face of defenders when they pick up a big first down. the falcons receivers do not do this. i want some momentum shown within the team. i want a defense who plays a little dirty. a defense where after a humiliating loss, the opponent's fans on monday complain about the aggresiveness of the falcons d.

also, if peterson does fall to 10, is there any legit chance we would take him? he is a huge talent but isnt norwood our future back? i think it would just cause more controversy over another position on the team.

and whats the details on kerney? hes getting no media attention. is he leaning on coming back?

im so excited for the season. but as people on the atl falcons forum have been saying constantly, this team just seems to let down when there are high expectations. i hate the feeling i get in the spring on the days leading to the draft anticipating the kickoff of the season wondering what will happen because the falcons in the previous year failed to match expectations. we need to get to the superbowl with vick as our leader.
Are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding. Based on their bowl games? Reggie didn't allow a catch. He did botch a run though. Landry allowed a Touchdown and cost his team an interception? His best hit came against his own teammate and he looked like a 5th round project. Reggie allowed nothing in the passing game, that's what we need. laron looks like another strong safety who doesn't finish plays, I don't want him in ATL. I want Reggie, he's the one who plays with intensity.



Landry has been a great player, and a leader of a good defense for the last 4 years. Reggie Nelson has had one great year. Gimme Landry any day of the week.
He was great his freshman and sophomore year, his junior and senior years he became complacent and took it all fore granted. He played very lazy, and really looks like a real good Strong Safety, but we have 2 of those already. The only Strong Safety I would want is Aaron Rouse. He's a monster and he'd be better to take over for Milloy than Crocker.


Playa Hata <_<

D-Rod
01-27-2007, 03:00 PM
i want to wait for the combine before i decide on my preference between landry and nelson.

however, i've also been somewhat rethinking my approach to jimmy williams, who i always wanted to keep at CB.

yes, he could be a good corner, and a solid complement to Hall. However, with the changes to pass interference rules, the job of a corner is less to actually shut down a receiver, as to hang with him for long enough to make a completion difficult, and give the D-line time to hit the QB.

therefore, in my opinion, it is actually easier to get a solid CB, someone who can hang for 4 seconds or so, and not let the guy get wide open; the difference maker, in that case, becomes the safety (as well as the pass-pressure). I've been thinking about the great defences, and I am starting to think more and more that the changes to the rules have made safety arguably a more important position than CB - and that traditional NFL drafting value has perhaps not yet caught up with the reality of the new environment.

many people will disagree, but look at most of the great defences, and there is a safety at their heart.

JW, in my mind, could be our Brian Dawkins. Could Reggie or Laron? Yes, possibly, but I think that JW would probably grade out as a better S prospect than either of them.

Also, the flexibility would be astonishing. For example, you could regularly send CB blitz, and coudl trust Jimmy to slide over at the moment of the snap to cover - and pick off - the quick flick to the uncovered man.

So perhaps we could sign a solid #2 CB in free agency, then move Jimmy to FS, where he could become a perennial Probowler.

That would free up our 1st rounder for O-line help.

If we do draft a safety high, it is interesting that Kiper thinks that Weddle and Griffin are more 2nd-3rd round guys than 1st-2nd. Quite right - safeties do always tend to fall...

Getting Brown and Griffin/Weddle with our first two picks could be great.

Options, options. Bring on the combine.

SimonRath
01-27-2007, 04:45 PM
I know everyone is saying that if we get a Safety in the 1st round we are gonna eith get Landry or Nelson, but my favorite is Michael griffin... I think we should trade down and get Griffin

scar988
01-27-2007, 05:09 PM
i want to wait for the combine before i decide on my preference between landry and nelson.

however, i've also been somewhat rethinking my approach to jimmy williams, who i always wanted to keep at CB.

yes, he could be a good corner, and a solid complement to Hall. However, with the changes to pass interference rules, the job of a corner is less to actually shut down a receiver, as to hang with him for long enough to make a completion difficult, and give the D-line time to hit the QB.

therefore, in my opinion, it is actually easier to get a solid CB, someone who can hang for 4 seconds or so, and not let the guy get wide open; the difference maker, in that case, becomes the safety (as well as the pass-pressure). I've been thinking about the great defences, and I am starting to think more and more that the changes to the rules have made safety arguably a more important position than CB - and that traditional NFL drafting value has perhaps not yet caught up with the reality of the new environment.

many people will disagree, but look at most of the great defences, and there is a safety at their heart.

JW, in my mind, could be our Brian Dawkins. Could Reggie or Laron? Yes, possibly, but I think that JW would probably grade out as a better S prospect than either of them.

Also, the flexibility would be astonishing. For example, you could regularly send CB blitz, and coudl trust Jimmy to slide over at the moment of the snap to cover - and pick off - the quick flick to the uncovered man.

So perhaps we could sign a solid #2 CB in free agency, then move Jimmy to FS, where he could become a perennial Probowler.

That would free up our 1st rounder for O-line help.

If we do draft a safety high, it is interesting that Kiper thinks that Weddle and Griffin are more 2nd-3rd round guys than 1st-2nd. Quite right - safeties do always tend to fall...

Getting Brown and Griffin/Weddle with our first two picks could be great.

Options, options. Bring on the combine.D-Rod what you expalined is exactly what we coudl do with either Landry or Nelson as both are former corners.

Who Dat Nation
01-27-2007, 06:23 PM
what would you guys think of selecting Amobi Okoye at #10 then trade Okoye, 2nd round draft pick, 2008 1st, and 2008 4th or 5th to the Bucs for Calvin Johnson...

SimonRath
01-27-2007, 06:28 PM
what would you guys think of selecting Amobi Okoye at #10 then trade Okoye, 2nd round draft pick, 2008 1st, and 2008 4th or 5th to the Bucs for Calvin Johnson...

HOLY CRAP.... um, no... we would be sooooooo stupid to do that,, as great as Calvin is, he aint worth that

Who Dat Nation
01-27-2007, 06:38 PM
why not- if you get CJ, that 1st probably becomes a late 1st anyway...

ATLDirtyBirds
01-27-2007, 06:46 PM
Or we could just take Okoye at 10 ourselves...

D-Rod
01-28-2007, 02:47 AM
didn't get to see the game.

any observations on the various O-line guys, and defensive backs?

iloxygenil
01-28-2007, 05:05 AM
Only person who did get to see the game was ATLDirtyBirds I think. I don't have the NFL Network, because Charter Sucks. They used to have it now they don't =(

ATLDirtyBirds
01-28-2007, 06:31 AM
I saw it. Ask me about a player and I'll let you know.

D-Rod
01-28-2007, 06:37 AM
I saw it. Ask me about a player and I'll let you know.

Levi Brown

I know that Ugoh got abused, Grubbs was good, Okoye was awesome, Hall was solid.

But I haven't heard anything about Brown.

I did read something nice on Foxsports about Levi making himself a clear top-15 overall pick this week.

DraftMichaelHuff
01-28-2007, 06:51 AM
Aaron Rouse
Brendan Merriweather

ATLDirtyBirds
01-28-2007, 08:57 AM
I saw it. Ask me about a player and I'll let you know.

Levi Brown

I know that Ugoh got abused, Grubbs was good, Okoye was awesome, Hall was solid.

But I haven't heard anything about Brown.

I did read something nice on Foxsports about Levi making himself a clear top-15 overall pick this week.

Levi Brown looked good, great footwork. Dominated Crowder. And Okoye looks like another defensive ends flying of the DT position.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-28-2007, 08:58 AM
Aaron Rouse
Brendan Merriweather


Rouse didn't make any plays to stand out. Merriweather was all over the place and looked great.

D-Rod
01-28-2007, 09:13 AM
Levi Brown looked good, great footwork. Dominated Crowder. And Okoye looks like another defensive ends flying of the DT position.

Good good. Crowder was reportedly having a great week, so to shut him down was no mean feat. And Mayock was putting Levi at 10-12 at the end of the Bowl. Now will our scouts see the same thing..?

Starting to wonder whether we could be facing Okoye twice a year... Gruden has been salivating over him all week long. And we know what happened with Cadillac. But could they really pick him over CJ..?[/quote]

ATLDirtyBirds
01-28-2007, 12:38 PM
Levi Brown looked good, great footwork. Dominated Crowder. And Okoye looks like another defensive ends flying of the DT position.

Good good. Crowder was reportedly having a great week, so to shut him down was no mean feat. And Mayock was putting Levi at 10-12 at the end of the Bowl. Now will our scouts see the same thing..?

Starting to wonder whether we could be facing Okoye twice a year... Gruden has been salivating over him all week long. And we know what happened with Cadillac. But could they really pick him over CJ..?[/quote]

I'd hate to vs Okoye, if the man gets up the say 300-310, he might be the best DT in a long time.

Deveraux
01-28-2007, 08:00 PM
I saw it. Ask me about a player and I'll let you know.

Levi Brown

I know that Ugoh got abused, Grubbs was good, Okoye was awesome, Hall was solid.

But I haven't heard anything about Brown.

I did read something nice on Foxsports about Levi making himself a clear top-15 overall pick this week.

Levi Brown looked good, great footwork. Dominated Crowder. And Okoye looks like another defensive ends flying of the DT position.

Along with Brown, Manuel Ramirez also intrigues me. I read a lot of great things about him, and think both him and Brown could totally secure the left side of our Oline. I am curious where do you think he will end up being taken. I have heard anywhere from round 2-4.

Also I read about Johnnie Lee Higgins all week, but didn't hear much about how he did in the game. How did he look?

Shiver
01-28-2007, 09:20 PM
Bravo gents. I was gone all weekend and you guys not only kept this thread up, but active. 8)

d34ng3l021
01-29-2007, 12:03 AM
Bravo gents. I was gone all weekend and you guys not only kept this thread up, but active. 8)

We missed you.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-29-2007, 05:58 AM
I saw it. Ask me about a player and I'll let you know.

Levi Brown

I know that Ugoh got abused, Grubbs was good, Okoye was awesome, Hall was solid.

But I haven't heard anything about Brown.

I did read something nice on Foxsports about Levi making himself a clear top-15 overall pick this week.

Levi Brown looked good, great footwork. Dominated Crowder. And Okoye looks like another defensive ends flying of the DT position.

Along with Brown, Manuel Ramirez also intrigues me. I read a lot of great things about him, and think both him and Brown could totally secure the left side of our Oline. I am curious where do you think he will end up being taken. I have heard anywhere from round 2-4.

Also I read about Johnnie Lee Higgins all week, but didn't hear much about how he did in the game. How did he look?


I dont think Higgins had a catch... and Manny Ramirez looked like a pretty good player, I wouldn't mind taking him in round 3.

iloxygenil
01-29-2007, 08:59 AM
What about Josh Wilson, Marquice Cole, and David Irons?

iloxygenil
01-29-2007, 09:51 AM
Kiper is ranking some of my favorite players REALLY low, like WAY lower than I thought they were going to project, like Eric Weddle in the 3rd or 4th he's got him listed. Well, that's INSANELY low to me. I would take him in the 2nd no doubt, kid is a great football player, forget measure ables, I want him in ATL REALLY bad. Lining him up as Free Safety would be a beautiful thing, especially if that means we get him in the 3rd round, so our first 2 rounds could be.

1- Jamaal Anderson
2- Justin Blalock (according to Kiper's rankings)
3- Eric Weddle

Wow, if that's not a pipe dream draft I don't know what is. But realistically if we get him in the 2nd round that'd be a great addition to our team.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-29-2007, 12:55 PM
What about Josh Wilson, Marquice Cole, and David Irons?


I liked Josh Wilson. He looked pretty good, and the other 2 did nothing to stand out from the crowd

iloxygenil
01-29-2007, 04:36 PM
That's cool. I'm not sold on him, and everything else I've read was he's just like another Allen Rossum...which in that case I'd be okay with that, as long as we ditch the current one.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-29-2007, 05:19 PM
That's cool. I'm not sold on him, and everything else I've read was he's just like another Allen Rossum...which in that case I'd be okay with that, as long as we ditch the current one.

Yeah, I'd definately like to see him as a nickle back for us.

D-Rod
01-29-2007, 05:23 PM
mate, too tired to comment further, but josh wilson is a world apart from rossum.

on a tangent: if JW moves to FS, how about Houston at Cb in the 2nd?

ATLDirtyBirds
01-29-2007, 05:47 PM
mate, too tired to comment further, but josh wilson is a world apart from rossum.

on a tangent: if JW moves to FS, how about Houston at Cb in the 2nd?


How are Josh Wilson and Rossum so different? Both arent tall and medicore tacklers, but make up for it with their tremendous speed. And I still prefer JDub at corner

Shiver
01-29-2007, 06:15 PM
mate, too tired to comment further, but josh wilson is a world apart from rossum.

on a tangent: if JW moves to FS, how about Houston at Cb in the 2nd?

I think Houston will end up being a top-15 pick in the draft.

iloxygenil
01-29-2007, 06:37 PM
mate, too tired to comment further, but josh wilson is a world apart from rossum.

on a tangent: if JW moves to FS, how about Houston at Cb in the 2nd?

I think Houston will end up being a top-15 pick in the draft.
Wow...top 15? Seriously? That'd be insane. I'm not so sure he goes so high.

I think there is no chance that JW plays anything but corner, he's off the chain there and is SO physically different than other corners in the league, he's so strong, and he's going to cause match up problems for everyone, and he can jam the hell out of WRs inside 5 yards. So he can be very physical still and take care of eliminating a WR with his strength.

d34ng3l021
01-29-2007, 06:52 PM
Kiper is ranking some of my favorite players REALLY low, like WAY lower than I thought they were going to project, like Eric Weddle in the 3rd or 4th he's got him listed. Well, that's INSANELY low to me. I would take him in the 2nd no doubt, kid is a great football player, forget measure ables, I want him in ATL REALLY bad. Lining him up as Free Safety would be a beautiful thing, especially if that means we get him in the 3rd round, so our first 2 rounds could be.

1- Jamaal Anderson
2- Justin Blalock (according to Kiper's rankings)
3- Eric Weddle

Wow, if that's not a pipe dream draft I don't know what is. But realistically if we get him in the 2nd round that'd be a great addition to our team.

That would be quite amazing, but pretty unrealistic. Kipers rankings this early are bogus anyway. We could get Grubbs with our 2nd pick and trade up to the end of the 2nd incase Weddle fell.

Shiver
01-29-2007, 09:17 PM
mate, too tired to comment further, but josh wilson is a world apart from rossum.

on a tangent: if JW moves to FS, how about Houston at Cb in the 2nd?

I think Houston will end up being a top-15 pick in the draft.
Wow...top 15? Seriously? That'd be insane. I'm not so sure he goes so high.

I think there is no chance that JW plays anything but corner, he's off the chain there and is SO physically different than other corners in the league, he's so strong, and he's going to cause match up problems for everyone, and he can jam the hell out of WRs inside 5 yards. So he can be very physical still and take care of eliminating a WR with his strength.

There is always a couple of corners who bolt up the draft boards late. This year I think Chris Houston and Aaron Ross are those corners.

iloxygenil
01-29-2007, 09:55 PM
I'm not a fan of Aaron Ross. I was watching a few of their games and watched him get beat a few times. Not saying he can't be good, because he has the tools, I'm just not his biggest fan at this point. I do like his game though.

Shiver
01-30-2007, 01:58 AM
Ugh, the Vick "huggers vs haters" AFMB discussions are so irritating. I disagree with both extremes. I think Michael Vick should be held accountable to at least some of the offensive woes. As well as held to a high standard, due to his potential to be a great player, that he hasn't fufilled, yet is being paid as if he has. However, the haters are extreme in the other way. Not giving Vick any credit, or any credence to the inconsistency of some of the supporting cast.

d34ng3l021
01-30-2007, 02:52 AM
Ugh, the Vick "huggers vs rs" AFMB discussions are so irritating. I disagree with both extremes. I think Michael Vick should be held accountable to at least some of the offensive woes. As well as held to a high standard, due to his potential to be a great player, that he hasn't fufilled, yet is being paid as if he has. However, the rs are extreme in the other way. Not giving Vick any credit, or any credence to the inconsistency of some of the supporting cast.

I never read threads there anymore. Thank god for Pure Football.

D-Rod
01-30-2007, 04:55 AM
How are Josh Wilson and Rossum so different? Both arent tall and medicore tacklers, but make up for it with their tremendous speed. And I still prefer JDub at corner

I prefer JW at corner too, just floating the notion.

Wilson is only an inch shorter than D-Hall, and is taller than Rossum. He's also significantly heavier, and - most importantly - has far better instincts in coverage right now than Rossum has ever had.

As for which Cbs will rise into the first round, that will all depend on the combine (more so than for any other position). Houston, who will run very quick, has as good a chance as any.

D-Rod
01-30-2007, 05:09 AM
A few thoughts on Knapp as the OC for Oakland.

Firstly, ha, good luck Raiders!

Secondly, does this make Oakland a more feasible destination for Schaub?

I doubt that they would hire Knapp unless they were planning to run a WCO, but presumably Davis will insist on a decent vertical aspect.

Some have said that Russell wouldn't really fit in a WCO, but I'm not sure that's true. However, Schaub certainly would fit, and the Raiders might think that they could better improve their Offence by drafting CJ and then trading for Schaub.

They might be willing to offer their 2nd round pick, and maybe a 3rd or 4th as well. However, even if they wanted Schaub, McKay's public demeanour very much suggest that he does not want to lose Schaub unless he is forced to by a team matching the highest tender.

He may be right that a solid backup QB is more valuable than a high draft pick - certainly, the Iggles and Garcia proved that this year. Or he may be bluffing to raise Schaub's trade value. We shall see.

iloxygenil
01-30-2007, 12:33 PM
I dunno, Al is crazy, so we'll see what happens, he could take Schaub there, and keep Randy, and that would give Matt plenty of WR to work with, and he's played behind a poor OL and was able to make it work. I think it would be a good pickup there, but I don't know, Al's going to want a big name.

falconsrule
01-30-2007, 12:36 PM
A few thoughts on Knapp as the OC for Oakland.

Firstly, ha, good luck Raiders!

Secondly, does this make Oakland a more feasible destination for Schaub?

I doubt that they would hire Knapp unless they were planning to run a WCO, but presumably Davis will insist on a decent vertical aspect.

Some have said that Russell wouldn't really fit in a WCO, but I'm not sure that's true. However, Schaub certainly would fit, and the Raiders might think that they could better improve their Offence by drafting CJ and then trading for Schaub.

They might be willing to offer their 2nd round pick, and maybe a 3rd or 4th as well. However, even if they wanted Schaub, McKay's public demeanour very much suggest that he does not want to lose Schaub unless he is forced to by a team matching the highest tender.

He may be right that a solid backup QB is more valuable than a high draft pick - certainly, the Iggles and Garcia proved that this year. Or he may be bluffing to raise Schaub's trade value. We shall see.

I personally think a 2nd,3rd,and a 4th is asking too much for schaub but I would take it in a sec...I would even take a 2nd & 3rd for schaub right now.....I think D.J. can step up in the #2 spot if he needed to....man im really hype about this offseason...i like the petrino hire along with the rest of the hires....hopefully we can get everything on the right track this year.

Shiver
01-30-2007, 01:34 PM
As I've said, I will believe a Schaub trade happens, when I see it. I think the only way a team gets Schaub is with a 1st and a 3rd, and I don't see that being realistically feasible for any team. Either that, or the Raiders swap 1st for 10th and Schaub straight up.

Shiver
01-30-2007, 03:23 PM
Here is the most bizarre statistical anomaly is Michael Vick's passer rating, differential between Home and Road. On the road he had an 84.9 Passer Rating on the road. Meanwhile he had the 4th worst home Passer Rating in the NFL, with 67.2! That's nearly a 20-point differential. That is very odd. Maybe we should play every game on the road. :lol:

Shiver
01-30-2007, 05:58 PM
Here is the most fun thing about the draft, with Rich McKay. We know he will grab any player that has an unexpected "slip." So if that is a Adrian Peterson, or Gaines Adams, he will be a Falcon. I certainly wouldn't mind adding Adams, even if Kerney is resigned. We need depth and rotation.

Man_Of_Steel
01-30-2007, 06:05 PM
Dude no way is AP gonna fall to 10, its a reach to say Adams will be there as well. Keep Williams at corner and go after either Laundry or Nelson. I'd take Laundry.

d34ng3l021
01-30-2007, 06:16 PM
Here is the most fun thing about the draft, with Rich McKay. We know he will grab any player that has an unexpected "slip." So if that is a Adrian Peterson, or Gaines Adams, he will be a Falcon. I certainly wouldn't mind adding Adams, even if Kerney is resigned. We need depth and rotation.

Thats what Ive been saying...some other kids on footballs future keep telling the mockers we will take Nelson over Branch or Anderson or Peterson. Its really annoying trying to correct them.

Geo
01-30-2007, 06:16 PM
Adrian Peterson at 10th overall is a steal if it happens, much like the Arizona Cardinals making out like bandits with Matt Leinart at the 10th overall pick last year.

Peterson would be at the top of the depth chart, but Jerious Norwood would spell carries whenever possible as well as take the field on 3rd downs. Or at least, that's how I would approach it.

ATLDirtyBirds
01-30-2007, 06:17 PM
Dude no way is AP gonna fall to 10, its a reach to say Adams will be there as well. Keep Williams at corner and go after either Laundry or Nelson. I'd take Laundry.


Don't sass Shiver. Second of all Adrian can fall. It happens all the time, add into the fact that Adrian didnt even play. And 3rd of all L-A-N-D-R-Y

Shiver
01-30-2007, 06:22 PM
Adrian Peterson at 10th overall is a steal if it happens, much like the Arizona Cardinals making out like bandits with Matt Leinart at the 10th overall pick last year.

Peterson would be at the top of the depth chart, but Jerious Norwood would spell carries whenever possible as well as take the field on 3rd downs. Or at least, that's how I would approach it.


That's Rich McKay's M.O. He takes the guy who slips due to mitigating circumstances. I am not saying it's likely, but at this point, who knows. All I know is we aren't going to reach on need. It simply is against everything we draft for. He made Tampa Bay with those kind of picks. Warren Sapp being the foremost example, while everyone else was scared due to "character" concerns. Although it's to be determined how his recent classes will shape up, that pretty much depends on how Roddy White and Jimmy Williams develop. We have made several mid-round steals like Michael Boley, even though we already had plenty of Linebackers, and it's paid off. Even with strong play from Defensive Tackle, if Alan Branch somehow falls, we would take him in a second.

falconsrule
01-30-2007, 06:32 PM
Dude no way is AP gonna fall to 10, its a reach to say Adams will be there as well. Keep Williams at corner and go after either Laundry or Nelson. I'd take Laundry.

I guess you was one of the people who thought Matt Leinart would fall to #10 and Donte Whitner would move up to the #8 spot huh?....I think it is possible but overall the Combine will decide which players move up & down but I agree with you...If AP fall we should get him...If Gaines fall we should get him..Even if DT Branch fall I think we should consider him too.

falconsrule
01-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Draft Theory...Somebody usually falls

1. Oakland - Logic seems to be at QB with Quinn or Russell. I'll say Russell.

2. Detroit - could be a variety of directions. I'll say BPA, the other QB, Quinn.

3. Tampa Bay - BPA - Calvin Johnson. Could go Jamaal Anderson, Gaines Adams or Alan Branch they really need help at Dline.

4. Cleveland - tough choice between Branch, Anderson, Peterson, Thomas. I will give them Branch.

5. Arizona - doubt he slips but Joe Thomas lands in Arz.

6. Washington - must bolster pass rush and dline. BPA dline is Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams. Maybe Glenn Dorsey here hes a great pass rushing d-tackle. I'll give them Jamaal Anderson.

7. Minnesota - needs offensive playmaker badly. BPA would be either Ginn or Jarrett. Personally i like Ginn better so its Ginn. They could go Gaines Adams here as Udeze had 0 sacks all season.

8. Houston - Biggest need is safety. Maybe Nelson? Could bolster D tackle with Dorsey. Maybe another d-end with Adams. But BPA would be Adrian Peterson i think. Lets give them Peterson.

9. Miami - The miami forum is praying Brian brohm comes out. If that happens he fits in here. Brohm is the pick.

10. ATLANTA - GAINES ADAMS, DE CLEMSON. Its possible! Adrian Peterson could even slip to us becuase Miami isnt taking him after Houston and noone besides Cleveland needs a RB this early. Reggie Nelson is still on the board for us too. we have a serious chance of getting a top notch talent at #10.

Who would you want at #10?

1. Gaines Adams, DE
2. Adrian Peterson, RB
3. Reggie Nelson, S

SimonRath
01-30-2007, 06:43 PM
Draft Theory...Somebody usually falls

1. Oakland - Logic seems to be at QB with Quinn or Russell. I'll say Russell.

2. Detroit - could be a variety of directions. I'll say BPA, the other QB, Quinn.

3. Tampa Bay - BPA - Calvin Johnson. Could go Jamaal Anderson, Gaines Adams or Alan Branch they really need help at Dline.

4. Cleveland - tough choice between Branch, Anderson, Peterson, Thomas. I will give them Branch.

5. Arizona - doubt he slips but Joe Thomas lands in Arz.

6. Washington - must bolster pass rush and dline. BPA dline is Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams. Maybe Glenn Dorsey here hes a great pass rushing d-tackle. I'll give them Jamaal Anderson.

7. Minnesota - needs offensive playmaker badly. BPA would be either Ginn or Jarrett. Personally i like Ginn better so its Ginn. They could go Gaines Adams here as Udeze had 0 sacks all season.

8. Houston - Biggest need is safety. Maybe Nelson? Could bolster D tackle with Dorsey. Maybe another d-end with Adams. But BPA would be Adrian Peterson i think. Lets give them Peterson.

9. Miami - The miami forum is praying Brian brohm comes out. If that happens he fits in here. Brohm is the pick.

10. ATLANTA - GAINES ADAMS, DE CLEMSON. Its possible! Adrian Peterson could even slip to us becuase Miami isnt taking him after Houston and noone besides Cleveland needs a RB this early. Reggie Nelson is still on the board for us too. we have a serious chance of getting a top notch talent at #10.

Who would you want at #10?

1. Gaines Adams, DE
2. Adrian Peterson, RB
3. Reggie Nelson, S

Might just be me but didn't Brohm say he was staying?

falconsrule
01-30-2007, 06:57 PM
Draft Theory...Somebody usually falls

1. Oakland - Logic seems to be at QB with Quinn or Russell. I'll say Russell.

2. Detroit - could be a variety of directions. I'll say BPA, the other QB, Quinn.

3. Tampa Bay - BPA - Calvin Johnson. Could go Jamaal Anderson, Gaines Adams or Alan Branch they really need help at Dline.

4. Cleveland - tough choice between Branch, Anderson, Peterson, Thomas. I will give them Branch.

5. Arizona - doubt he slips but Joe Thomas lands in Arz.

6. Washington - must bolster pass rush and dline. BPA dline is Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams. Maybe Glenn Dorsey here hes a great pass rushing d-tackle. I'll give them Jamaal Anderson.

7. Minnesota - needs offensive playmaker badly. BPA would be either Ginn or Jarrett. Personally i like Ginn better so its Ginn. They could go Gaines Adams here as Udeze had 0 sacks all season.

8. Houston - Biggest need is safety. Maybe Nelson? Could bolster D tackle with Dorsey. Maybe another d-end with Adams. But BPA would be Adrian Peterson i think. Lets give them Peterson.

9. Miami - The miami forum is praying Brian brohm comes out. If that happens he fits in here. Brohm is the pick.

10. ATLANTA - GAINES ADAMS, DE CLEMSON. Its possible! Adrian Peterson could even slip to us becuase Miami isnt taking him after Houston and noone besides Cleveland needs a RB this early. Reggie Nelson is still on the board for us too. we have a serious chance of getting a top notch talent at #10.

Who would you want at #10?

1. Gaines Adams, DE
2. Adrian Peterson, RB
3. Reggie Nelson, S

Might just be me but didn't Brohm say he was staying?

Yeah my bad..take Brohm out and put Leon Hall,Amobi Okoye,and LaRon Landry in Miami spot.

Shiver
01-30-2007, 11:14 PM
I wonder how much Petrino will try and talk McKay into taking Amobi Okoye?

scar988
01-30-2007, 11:19 PM
I wonder how much Petrino will try and talk McKay into taking Amobi Okoye?probably a lot but the fact is that there will be better players available. Also, I could easily see Okoye going in the 2nd round.

Shiver
01-30-2007, 11:19 PM
:shock:

I've heard he may not even be there at #10, because Tampa Bay will drop a few slots and take him. They are enamored with him, they need a UT, and Gruden likes to take the players he's coached at the Senior Bowl.

As for Okoye, he will likely bloom into a dominant 310-lbs, 4-3 Nose Tackle. we could definitely use more of a rotation at that position. We overworked Grady Jackson this past year, very lucky he held up. Of course, they had to, neither Shropshire or (Tommy) Jackson are what you want in the game more than you have to.

Shiver
01-30-2007, 11:27 PM
Were 9th in Team Board popularity. Let's get up to the top-5 by next season. 8)

ATLDirtyBirds
01-31-2007, 04:55 AM
I really like Okoye, I think he is very much in the mold of Tommie Harris.

D-Rod
01-31-2007, 06:40 AM
I think that DE and DT are the most likely spots to be addressed at #10.

Remember, McKay hates to have a need unfilled when he reaches the draft. That means that, come April 27th, we will have a starting FS, LT and LG with whom McKay is reasoanbly content. They may be new guys, they may be old guys that McKay expects to up their game (eg. Crocker and Lehr). But whatever happens, we will have 22 starters.

Therefore it will just be a question of BPA.

Personally, I would be surprised if Anderson, Adams, Branch and Okoye did not all rate higher than Landry, Brown and Nelson (the need guys right now). I would also be surprised if at least one of those D-liners did not fall. And it's not as if we couldn't make use of them. Both DE and DT benefit hugely from a great rotation.

But even if they are all gone, we are still operating from a position of strength.

If we have signed Deon Grant as a FA, and Reggie Nelson is the highest rated player on their board still available at #10, they will take him (unless able to trade down, perhaps). Is that a bad thing? Not really. Great players can always be utilised.

In that scenario, one option would be this:

Base defense secondary:
SS Milloy
FS Grant (or Nelson, he would actually compete straight away, I'd guess)
CB Hall
CB Williams

But then for nickel on obvious passing downs:
SS Grant
FS Nelson
CB Hall
CB Williams
CB Webster

That's crazy secondary speed and coverage ability. Great players fit, whatever.

It all depends on McKay finding the cap cash to fill holes in FA, but I'm very confident that he will get it done. The cap is always malleable if the owner is willing to stump up bonus money, and Blank has always been willing to do that to help the Falcons win.

iloxygenil
01-31-2007, 10:50 AM
I don't see ANY way that Okoye is there beyond pick 12 honestly if he's there at 10 and Anderson and Adams are gone I think we get him

Shiver
01-31-2007, 11:21 AM
I don't see ANY way that Okoye is there beyond pick 12 honestly if he's there at 10 and Anderson and Adams are gone I think we get him


I agree. Personally, I don't think the drop-off from Nelson, Landry to Griffin, Meriweather is that worth taking one of them with the #10 pick. Free Safety is just not that important of a position, and good ones can always be found later.

SimonRath
01-31-2007, 12:13 PM
we should either get Ken Hamlin or Deon Grant as 1 of our safety spots

ATLDirtyBirds
01-31-2007, 01:04 PM
I don't see ANY way that Okoye is there beyond pick 12 honestly if he's there at 10 and Anderson and Adams are gone I think we get him


I agree. Personally, I don't think the drop-off from Nelson, Landry to Griffin, Meriweather is that worth taking one of them with the #10 pick. Free Safety is just not that important of a position, and good ones can always be found later.


Eh, we might have to take a saftey. Chances are, Nelson, Landry, Griffin and Meriweather will be gone. Meriweather might last but the otf issues..

IndyColtScout
01-31-2007, 01:19 PM
:shock:

I've heard he may not even be there at #10, because Tampa Bay will drop a few slots and take him. They are enamored with him, they need a UT, and Gruden likes to take the players he's coached at the Senior Bowl.

As for Okoye, he will likely bloom into a dominant 310-lbs, 4-3 Nose Tackle. we could definitely use more of a rotation at that position. We overworked Grady Jackson this past year, very lucky he held up. Of course, they had to, neither Shropshire or (Tommy) Jackson are what you want in the game more than you have to.

From what I heard TB liked Brandon Mebane more than Okoye. I heard TB is targeting Mebane w/ their early 2nd. I heard Coyer spent tons of time personally coaching Mebane.

I have to ask ATL fans some questions. I have you guys taking Okoye @ 10 right now in my mock. ATL's 2nd round pick is currently Josh Wilson. I made these picks because I have heard that ATL staff memebers see Jimmy as more of a FS and thinks he lacks man coverage skills. I also got to believe that Jason Webster will be gone sooner rather than later. Would these picks fit into ATL defensive plans, or should I go another route? I feel that even if ATL kept Williams @ Cb, they could go safety round two w/ Weddle/Rouse or even round 3. ATL fans help me out.

SimonRath
01-31-2007, 01:33 PM
I got a pretty good idea. We sign Michael Lewis for Phi. he will be pretty cheap after his not so good year.. he's still a good plaer, he just had a off year.. We sign Hamlin or Grant.. So in the draft he get Gaines Adams

S: Lewis
S: Hamlin/Grant
CB: Hall
CB: Williams

DE: Abrahams
DT: Coleman
DT: Jackson/Babinaux
DE: Adams

SimonRath
01-31-2007, 02:00 PM
Or we draft Gaines Adams in the first round and get Meriweather in round 2?

falconsrule
01-31-2007, 02:42 PM
:shock:

I've heard he may not even be there at #10, because Tampa Bay will drop a few slots and take him. They are enamored with him, they need a UT, and Gruden likes to take the players he's coached at the Senior Bowl.

As for Okoye, he will likely bloom into a dominant 310-lbs, 4-3 Nose Tackle. we could definitely use more of a rotation at that position. We overworked Grady Jackson this past year, very lucky he held up. Of course, they had to, neither Shropshire or (Tommy) Jackson are what you want in the game more than you have to.

From what I heard TB liked Brandon Mebane more than Okoye. I heard TB is targeting Mebane w/ their early 2nd. I heard Coyer spent tons of time personally coaching Mebane.

I have to ask ATL fans some questions. I have you guys taking Okoye @ 10 right now in my mock. ATL's 2nd round pick is currently Josh Wilson. I made these picks because I have heard that ATL staff memebers see Jimmy as more of a FS and thinks he lacks man coverage skills. I also got to believe that Jason Webster will be gone sooner rather than later. Would these picks fit into ATL defensive plans, or should I go another route? I feel that even if ATL kept Williams @ Cb, they could go safety round two w/ Weddle/Rouse or even round 3. ATL fans help me out.

Yeah its possible that we go safety in round two...As of right now I really dont know....We could go LT,LG,Power RB,or Safety in round two.

falconsrule
01-31-2007, 02:44 PM
Or we draft Gaines Adams in the first round and get Meriweather in round 2?

I would love that or either some O-Line help in the 2nd round...

iloxygenil
01-31-2007, 04:42 PM
:shock:

I've heard he may not even be there at #10, because Tampa Bay will drop a few slots and take him. They are enamored with him, they need a UT, and Gruden likes to take the players he's coached at the Senior Bowl.

As for Okoye, he will likely bloom into a dominant 310-lbs, 4-3 Nose Tackle. we could definitely use more of a rotation at that position. We overworked Grady Jackson this past year, very lucky he held up. Of course, they had to, neither Shropshire or (Tommy) Jackson are what you want in the game more than you have to.

From what I heard TB liked Brandon Mebane more than Okoye. I heard TB is targeting Mebane w/ their early 2nd. I heard Coyer spent tons of time personally coaching Mebane.

I have to ask ATL fans some questions. I have you guys taking Okoye @ 10 right now in my mock. ATL's 2nd round pick is currently Josh Wilson. I made these picks because I have heard that ATL staff memebers see Jimmy as more of a FS and thinks he lacks man coverage skills. I also got to believe that Jason Webster will be gone sooner rather than later. Would these picks fit into ATL defensive plans, or should I go another route? I feel that even if ATL kept Williams @ Cb, they could go safety round two w/ Weddle/Rouse or even round 3. ATL fans help me out.
Jimmy's Man Coverage isn't the problem even remotely, he's actually exceptional in man press coverage, the problem is Ed Zonatel always had him back in space in zone coverage, which he's not great with yet, going to take him some more time to learn his role, but he really played exceptionally well at corner and if we move him I think we lose a HUGE player in our defense, a guy who can make plays and destroy WRs physically from the snap and never let them get off routes, he is smothering in press coverage, and causes TONS of matchup problems. You can't throw on a guy who is 6'3 like you can on a guy who's 5'10. I love Deangelo Hall and he's insanely good, but Jimmy is the PERFECT compliment to him. I know speed kills, but Jimmy has PLENTY of speed and plays with TONS of heart. I want him to remain at corner more than anything.

However, the importance of a Free Safety in this league is PARAMOUNT. 2 Words 1 Name, Bob Sanders, he is the biggest reason the Colts are playing for the Super Bowl, without him, they were going to get bounced round 1. He makes plays EVERYWHERE and energizes that team. Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed, I mean all these guys change the faces of their defense. You can't throw on them, and if you do they will destroy your WRs. Safety is THE most important defensive position in football anymore, because even without great pass rush, if you have a good Safety, he's going to cause a different set of problems, and makes your pass rush better by forcing things to take longer to develop. When you have a guy like Chris Crocker in deep coverage, and he blows it and comes up under the WR where Deangelo already had cut off, but you let him get free over the top, and bam, that's 7 points right there. Your Safetys are the last line of defense, and you HAVE to have elite Safetys in this league, they make up for SO many other problems that go on and allow your corners to take more chances, which in turn ends up in them making more plays.

Shiver
01-31-2007, 05:09 PM
Agree to disagree. I don't see the value of taking a Safety that high. They never live up to it. Roy Williams has disappointed. Sean Taylor has disappointed. Michael Huff and Donte Whitner don't scream "elite" to me. The really good Safeties in the NFL were usually 2nd round picks, like Brian Dawkins. Or as you mentioned, Bob Sanders wasn't a first round pick. Let alone a top-10 pick. Safety just isn't worth that kind of value. I would be very surprised if Rich McKay takes a Safety. It just doesn't fit his "B.P.A" M.O.

You need dominant trench play in the NFL. I stand by that opinion. I would love to trade down and draft a Offensive Lineman. But if we stay at #10, I want one of the D-Lineman if they fall. Look at the Bears, they have a plethora of great players, with plenty of quality depth, in a rotation. We were way too shallow last year. With no depth behind Grady Jackson, or at End. Because of that, run defense and pass rush eroded, leading to defensive lapses.

iloxygenil
01-31-2007, 06:22 PM
I want a great defense...way more than offense. Vick is WAY better than Grossman, and if we gave him the Bears defense we wouldn't lose a game. I'm all for defense, and I know that you can get great Safetys outside the top 10, outside the first round, but it's because the value of the Safetys hasn't caught up to what they are worth on the field yet. When it does, they will go top 10 constantly. Huff had a great season, and so did Whitner. I know it was a reach, but man, I'd LOVE to get Anderson more than anything, him or Branch. Last year my favorite player was Bunkley, and he'd have paid off BIG time for us. Watch out for Fluellen from FSU as well, he's a late round guy who could be a good rotational player. I'm not sure who my favorite player is in this draft yet, but right now Eric Weddle is towards the top of my list, he's a baller.

If we for some reason lose Demorrio Williams, Lawrence Timmons will jump to the top of my list right away.

Shiver
01-31-2007, 06:42 PM
The main reason we won't trade Matt Schaub: Jeff Garcia. He is a more ready made, already proven, West Coast Offense, Quarterback. He is a free agent. Why would you trade for Schaub, yielding a heavy price, when you can sign Garcia for free?

DraftMichaelHuff
01-31-2007, 07:41 PM
Why would we take okoye at 10 with Rod Coleman and the ever improving Jonathan Babineaux at 4/3 UT The only DT id like is this draft is a huge guy, a NT to replace Grady who will really be a week to week propect as he ages at his weight. To me at #10 i wouldnt mind Alan Branch if he is there because he is in more of a position to help the team win IMO.

This might sound weird but mi ideal selection at number 10 really depends on who is there at our 2nd round pick and if we are able to trade Shaub (unlikley).
If brendan merriweather is goin to be there at pik 42 then i would just take BPA in round one ideally IMO not okoye but any of Anderson, Adams, Branch, Peterson or Levi Brown.

I dont want another stop-gap solution at S i want a day 1 starting quality FS in this draft and a project SS for the future, im sick of worrying about both safeties year after year after year

Im tossing up between 2 scenarios #1
10 Any of Branch Anderson, Adams, Peterson if they slip
IF NOT Levi Brown.
42 Brendan Merriweather FS
74 Manuel Remirez OG
96-98?? comp Aaron Rouse SS

And... Without a FS available in rd two
10 Reggie Nelson FS may not be a reach after the combine we could also trade down a few spots too and get him
42 Joe Staley (with Merriweather selected earlier)
78 Manuel Remirez
96-98?? comp Aaron Rouse
with Walter Tomas DT who weighed in at 6"4 370 at Texas v The Nation and Tyrone Moss two of our day 2 picks

Ideally a trade for Shaub for a high 2nd rounder could possibly give us a DE like Charles Johnson or help a grab a FS before our original 2nd rounder, howvever this is a situation i see as being less and less realistic

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
01-31-2007, 08:03 PM
Reggie Nelson would be a much bigger pick up than Okoye. Nelson is the best safety in this draft, and I think in a couple of drafts. He is a big time player.

Shiver
01-31-2007, 08:21 PM
Amobi Okoye will be a 315-lbs 4-3 Defensive Tackle when he grows. That's why we would need him. He's only 19 years old. Most Defensive Lineman aren't even sophomores yet. He can get a lot bigger, and he will be a 4-3 NT. Not to mention I could see Bobby Petrino and Mike Zimmer wanting to have him.

IndyColtScout
01-31-2007, 08:23 PM
Amobi Okoye will be a 315-lbs 4-3 Defensive Tackle when he grows. That's why we would need him. He's only 19 years old. Most Defensive Lineman aren't even sophomores yet. He can get a lot bigger, and he will be a 4-3 NT.

That's one of the reasons I think ATL could pick Okoye. He will provide depth & rotation @ UT for right now, and by the time he's 22 maybe 21, he could probably start @ NT.

Shiver
01-31-2007, 08:24 PM
All I want is a Trench player with our first pick. Whether that be O/D-Line. I could live with Laron Landry or Adrian Peterson. But I really want to build a physically tough football team. We already have the team speed. All that is left is shedding the "finesse" label that Jim Mora seemed to embrace.

falconsrule
01-31-2007, 09:57 PM
All of you guys have made very good points....I strongly believe whoever we pick should be able to come in and help us out in week 1 and have a major impact....I want that type of player at the number 10 spot....but if it came down to D-Line help vs. Secondary help...I have to go with the D-Line...We all know about John Abraham...He is a great player when healthy but you never know when he might go down with a injury....I want a player who can be that insurence that we need if Ab happens to go down again..Hopefully Anderson,Gaines,or Branch fall down to the number 10 spot.

iloxygenil
01-31-2007, 10:06 PM
The main reason we won't trade Matt Schaub: Jeff Garcia. He is a more ready made, already proven, West Coast Offense, Quarterback. He is a free agent. Why would you trade for Schaub, yielding a heavy price, when you can sign Garcia for free?
Simple...Garcia's career is up and down, and now is over, he's like almost 40...he's done in the NFL. He couldn't handle 16 games in the NFL anymore. Schaub has MASSIVE potential, and is already playing very well. Yes, Garcia is good, but he has 0 upside. Schaub on the other hand has almost 100% upside. That's why a team will come knocking for Schaub.

iloxygenil
01-31-2007, 10:14 PM
Anderson is ALL over my radar screen right now, but Gaines Adams is as well. Basically all DEs are on my radar, and that monster from Florida is all over my screen as well, can't even remember his name, just watched him play, Moss I think is his name, and wow, he's a baller. 2nd round, he'd be amazing. Nelson in the first with him in the 2nd, wow. That'd be wonderful. But yeah, I want some strength all together, we have TONS of speed, but our Safetys are in shambles, we need the help.

scar988
02-01-2007, 07:44 AM
From what I heard TB liked Brandon Mebane more than Okoye. I heard TB is targeting Mebane w/ their early 2nd. I heard Coyer spent tons of time personally coaching Mebane.

I have to ask ATL fans some questions. I have you guys taking Okoye @ 10 right now in my mock. ATL's 2nd round pick is currently Josh Wilson. I made these picks because I have heard that ATL staff memebers see Jimmy as more of a FS and thinks he lacks man coverage skills. I also got to believe that Jason Webster will be gone sooner rather than later. Would these picks fit into ATL defensive plans, or should I go another route? I feel that even if ATL kept Williams @ Cb, they could go safety round two w/ Weddle/Rouse or even round 3. ATL fans help me out.
what? ATL's staff drfted Williams because of his man cover skills. he can't play zone. We won't be moving Williams to S. we also won't waste a pick on Okoye i nthe first. as much as he dominated at the senior bowl he still isn't worth a first IMO.

Shiver
02-01-2007, 02:36 PM
Anderson is ALL over my radar screen right now, but Gaines Adams is as well. Basically all DEs are on my radar, and that monster from Florida is all over my screen as well, can't even remember his name, just watched him play, Moss I think is his name, and wow, he's a baller. 2nd round, he'd be amazing. Nelson in the first with him in the 2nd, wow. That'd be wonderful. But yeah, I want some strength all together, we have TONS of speed, but our Safetys are in shambles, we need the help.


I wonder when we are going to hear about Patrick Kerney. If we re-sign him, we only need depth at Rush End. If not, we need a new starter at Strong-side End, like a Jamaal Anderson. As well as depth behind Abraham, like a Mark Anderson mid-round value. We just need more depth on the D-Line. I am tired of having some injury and the whole defense self-destructs because of the drop-off of talent.

SimonRath
02-01-2007, 02:50 PM
Anderson is ALL over my radar screen right now, but Gaines Adams is as well. Basically all DEs are on my radar, and that monster from Florida is all over my screen as well, can't even remember his name, just watched him play, Moss I think is his name, and wow, he's a baller. 2nd round, he'd be amazing. Nelson in the first with him in the 2nd, wow. That'd be wonderful. But yeah, I want some strength all together, we have TONS of speed, but our Safetys are in shambles, we need the help.


I wonder when we are going to hear about Patrick Kerney. If we re-sign him, we only need depth at Rush End. If not, we need a new starter at Strong-side End, like a Jamaal Anderson. As well as depth behind Abraham, like a Mark Anderson mid-round value. We just need more depth on the D-Line. I am tired of having some injury and the whole defense self-destructs because of the drop-off of talent.

I like C.J Ah Yu (sp.) from Oklahoma as the next Mark Anderson

Shiver
02-01-2007, 02:55 PM
My point is this; You add more depth to the D-Line, at End and Tackle, and the run defense and pass defense will play a lot better than it has. If you improve the Left Side of the O-Line, then the offense will likewise improve. We have the team speed, at the skill positions. Now we need physical, tough, dominating trench play to create a well rounded team. The finesse, speed, Line play we had under Mora made us a "soft" team. Especially on offense. Struggles in the Red-Zone, on short yardage, and in obvious pass protection are the Achilles' Heal of the Alex Gibbs scheme.

SimonRath
02-01-2007, 03:01 PM
My point is this; You add more depth to the D-Line, at End and Tackle, and the run defense and pass defense will play a lot better than it has. If you improve the Left Side of the O-Line, then the offense will likewise improve. We have the team speed, at the skill positions. Now we need physical, tough, dominating trench play to create a well rounded team. The finesse, speed, Line play we had under Mora made us a "soft" team.

you got a good point there... I'f your D-line is getting pressure to the QB and making him throw earlier and to the spot he dont wanna throw to, then your secondary will look better

Shiver
02-01-2007, 03:12 PM
When you cannot generate pressure with your front four, then you have to blitz. That is why our pass defense self destructed. When Kerney, Abraham and Coleman all got hurt, we started blitzing more often. We started out the season giving up 2 Touchdowns to 8 Interceptions, with both of the Touchdowns being in the red-zone to Jeremy Shockey. We finished the year, yielding 18 Touchdowns to 4 Interceptions in the final nine games! :shock: When you have to rely on UDFA's to play a significant amount of snaps, and you have to sell out on blitzes, you cannot succeed as a defense. Anyone that has read Gregg Easterbrook's TMQ, or Football Outsiders, knows that blitzing hurts more than it helps.

SimonRath
02-01-2007, 03:19 PM
yea it dont matter if you got amazing CB's and S's if your DE's and DT's suck rear end. Then you got to blitz with your LB's and then it's 1 on 1 coverage

ATLDirtyBirds
02-01-2007, 04:02 PM
yea it dont matter if you got amazing CB's and S's if your DE's and DT's suck rear end. Then you got to blitz with your LB's and then it's 1 on 1 coverage

And 1-1 coverage is ALWAYS at a WR advantage, becuase Roy Williams (Lions WR) said about our 1-1 coverage. We are never going to lose, because we know exactly where we are going, but they dont.

Shiver
02-01-2007, 04:43 PM
Here is what I want to do; draft Gaines Adams, or whichever of the premier D-Line prospects fall. Then trade our 2nd round pick and Demorrio Williams, to a Tampa 2 team in the low 1st, to insure we get Joe Staley to be our Left Tackle of the future.

SimonRath
02-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Here is what I want to do; draft Gaines Adams, or whichever of the premier D-Line prospects fall. Then trade our 2nd round pick and Demorrio Williams, to a Tampa 2 team in the low 1st, to insure we get Joe Staley to be our Left Tackle of the future.

hey thats a very god idea.. i never thought of that trade.. that would be frickin good

Shiver
02-01-2007, 04:50 PM
After doing so reading, maybe Quinn Ojinnaka could start at Left Tackle for us. Here is his NFL.com prospect profile;

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/ojinnaka_quinn

Ojinnaka is a talented athlete who has all the tools to become a good starting offensive tackle in the NFL, but he needs to greatly improve his technique and footwork and must block more aggressively in order to play up to his ability. While he clearly looks thin on film, he has enough of a frame to bulk up and add approximately 10-15 pounds, which will be enough for him to play strong in the NFL. He is frustrating to evaluate because he is not a highly competitive offensive lineman who attacks his man and fights to the death to eliminate him from the play. For him to succeed without being a warrior-type aggressive player, he needs to learn to play with his knees bent and good technique/footwork on every play. Overall, Ojinnaka is the type of athlete that cannot be overlooked because, despite his inconsistent play and bad technique/footwork, he has all the physical tools you can ask for. In a season or two in the NFL, he will develop into a solid starting left tackle who can make all the blocks. He will be very valuable for an offensive tackle because of his ability to pull, trap and block in space consistently well.

That would be great, if he steps up to the plate, and impresses the coaching staff in OTAs..

SimonRath
02-01-2007, 05:17 PM
After doing so reading, maybe Quinn Ojinnaka could start at Left Tackle for us. Here is his NFL.com prospect profile;

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/ojinnaka_quinn

Ojinnaka is a talented athlete who has all the tools to become a good starting offensive tackle in the NFL, but he needs to greatly improve his technique and footwork and must block more aggressively in order to play up to his ability. While he clearly looks thin on film, he has enough of a frame to bulk up and add approximately 10-15 pounds, which will be enough for him to play strong in the NFL. He is frustrating to evaluate because he is not a highly competitive offensive lineman who attacks his man and fights to the death to eliminate him from the play. For him to succeed without being a warrior-type aggressive player, he needs to learn to play with his knees bent and good technique/footwork on every play. Overall, Ojinnaka is the type of athlete that cannot be overlooked because, despite his inconsistent play and bad technique/footwork, he has all the physical tools you can ask for. In a season or two in the NFL, he will develop into a solid starting left tackle who can make all the blocks. He will be very valuable for an offensive tackle because of his ability to pull, trap and block in space consistently well.

That would be great, if he steps up to the plate, and impresses the coaching staff in OTAs..

I'd rather get Staley

d34ng3l021
02-01-2007, 07:33 PM
I am kind of iffy of Quinn...Dont know if he is ready yet. And what the hell happened with Omiyale?

I agree with Shiver when he said we need a guy in the trenches with our first pick. There are always good safeties in later rounds...Seeing how Merriweather pwned up at the senior bowl I wouldnt mind having him @ 42. I would be estatic if we got Levi Brown/ Gaines Adams/ Jamaal Anderson/ Alan Branch/ maybe Okoye and then Merrieather or Weddle.

iloxygenil
02-01-2007, 10:10 PM
There is NOTHING worth giving up Demorrio for, he's TOO good, WAY too good to give up for next to nothing. I'd love to keep him here in ATL, he's got WAY too much potential and he's our only real depth at the only position we're deep enough at.

UtepMiner
02-01-2007, 11:02 PM
Dang I'm at pick 10 in my mock, and I have absolutely no clue who the Falcons should take.. Anderson, Adams, Landry are all off the board.

what would be the best option for them? Okoye, Nelson, L.Brown?

iloxygenil
02-01-2007, 11:30 PM
We want to address the OL, but I really think if Nelson is BPA we'd take him.

morknolle
02-02-2007, 12:07 AM
You guys aren't going to be switching to a 3-4 defense with Zimmer as your D-Coordinator now are you? Coming from Dallas they obviously ran a 3-4, but I think you guys are much more suited to stay in a 4-3 at least for now, but have any of you heard whether they plan to start phasing into a 3-4 or anything? Just trying to put together some free agency and draft ideas.

Also, it sounds like you guys are planning to bring in a new type of OLineman now that Petrino is in charge. If this is true, are there any linemen that you currently have that are likely to be released and are especially good for a zone blocking scheme like we are running here in Houston and that would be available to us in the near future?

I appreciate any comments you guys have regarding these issues. Thanks.

iloxygenil
02-02-2007, 12:42 AM
Lehr I hope will be released, but we don't know yet.

We are staying 4-3, Zimmer is a 4-3 coordinator and was forced into a 3-4 in Dallas. So he's going back to his 4-3 where he is more comfortable.

Shiver
02-02-2007, 12:49 PM
There is NOTHING worth giving up Demorrio for, he's TOO good, WAY too good to give up for next to nothing. I'd love to keep him here in ATL, he's got WAY too much potential and he's our only real depth at the only position we're deep enough at.

Jordan Beck?

Shiver
02-02-2007, 12:50 PM
Dang I'm at pick 10 in my mock, and I have absolutely no clue who the Falcons should take.. Anderson, Adams, Landry are all off the board.

what would be the best option for them? Okoye, Nelson, L.Brown?


I would rather have Levi Brown. As for whom we will take, in reality, I just don't know.

D-Rod
02-02-2007, 01:33 PM
I would rather have Levi Brown. As for whom we will take, in reality, I just don't know.

Fact is, we're just not going to have any idea until FA is done. Still, nothing wrong with speculation, and if we don't fill ANY needs in FA, then it would have to be Levi Brown, IMO.

D-Rod
02-02-2007, 01:46 PM
Now here's a scenario to drool over. I know it won't happen, but...

Let's just dream that Omiyale is ready to start at LT, and Ojinnaka is ready to start at LG. That's the line sorted out. Gandy is cut, leaving us with $16 mill cap room.

We resign Kerney and Griffith, but that still leaves us with around $10 mill cap room.

Then, we make the one big FA splash: Nate Clements. Hello.

Then we draft Reggie Freaking Nelson at #10.

Then we draft one of the many pass-rushing ends at #44 to fill out the rotation, and a CB at #75 to play dime.

Williams CAN play corner, yes, but if we have Clements then he could became a GREAT SS. Milloy gets on the field in certain situations, but Williams is the starter.

Hall-Williams-Nelson-Clements: can you even imagine how great that secondary would be for years and years? Could be the greatest of all time in a couple of years...

And we'd still have a crazy pass-rush to go with it... and great LBers. Defense!

Shiver
02-02-2007, 01:58 PM
The progress of Omiyale and Ojinnaka could make or break our off-season. Both of them have potential, and both could replace Gandy and actually out-perform him.

IndyColtScout
02-02-2007, 02:13 PM
From what I heard TB liked Brandon Mebane more than Okoye. I heard TB is targeting Mebane w/ their early 2nd. I heard Coyer spent tons of time personally coaching Mebane.

I have to ask ATL fans some questions. I have you guys taking Okoye @ 10 right now in my mock. ATL's 2nd round pick is currently Josh Wilson. I made these picks because I have heard that ATL staff memebers see Jimmy as more of a FS and thinks he lacks man coverage skills. I also got to believe that Jason Webster will be gone sooner rather than later. Would these picks fit into ATL defensive plans, or should I go another route? I feel that even if ATL kept Williams @ Cb, they could go safety round two w/ Weddle/Rouse or even round 3. ATL fans help me out.
what? ATL's staff drfted Williams because of his man cover skills. he can't play zone. We won't be moving Williams to S. we also won't waste a pick on Okoye i nthe first. as much as he dominated at the senior bowl he still isn't worth a first IMO.

I watched a couple ATL games, I know I didn't watch them all. I saw Williams gets burned twice in the PIT game at home, and again against NO. He was playing man. I don't think his man coverage skills are as great as they could be w/ his measurables. Hopefully Petrino gets the best out of him.

iloxygenil
02-02-2007, 04:39 PM
From what I heard TB liked Brandon Mebane more than Okoye. I heard TB is targeting Mebane w/ their early 2nd. I heard Coyer spent tons of time personally coaching Mebane.

I have to ask ATL fans some questions. I have you guys taking Okoye @ 10 right now in my mock. ATL's 2nd round pick is currently Josh Wilson. I made these picks because I have heard that ATL staff memebers see Jimmy as more of a FS and thinks he lacks man coverage skills. I also got to believe that Jason Webster will be gone sooner rather than later. Would these picks fit into ATL defensive plans, or should I go another route? I feel that even if ATL kept Williams @ Cb, they could go safety round two w/ Weddle/Rouse or even round 3. ATL fans help me out.
what? ATL's staff drfted Williams because of his man cover skills. he can't play zone. We won't be moving Williams to S. we also won't waste a pick on Okoye i nthe first. as much as he dominated at the senior bowl he still isn't worth a first IMO.

I watched a couple ATL games, I know I didn't watch them all. I saw Williams gets burned twice in the PIT game at home, and again against NO. He was playing man. I don't think his man coverage skills are as great as they could be w/ his measurables. Hopefully Petrino gets the best out of him.
You obviously didn't watch the game. He got burned 1 time by Hines Ward, and it was his first play in the game. That was the only time he was on the field, they put him in in the redzone and it was obvious what was going to happen, he had his position over the top, but definitely got smoked, his man coverage is not the problem at all, and when you toss a guy in from the bench, then he's bound to get bet, 10 year pro, or rookie.