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Number 10
05-08-2007, 08:49 PM
Alright let's try to get as much good, unbiased conversation going as possible until the likes of the you know whos enter. I will give my pre-preseason thoughts followed by a rough prediction of season records for the 2007 season.

Running Game

1-Philadelphia Eagles

With Barber out of the division, I think it's about time we give the nod to Westbrook as the best RB in the division. The "he is not an every down back" talk needs to stop, he is simply a notch or two ahead of any other RB in the division. He is a big play waiting to happen anytime his body is in between the sidelines whether it be via a reception or rush attempt. One guy I think is going to turn a lot of heads is someone I was high on throughout the entire college season is Tony Hunt. The Eagles have needed someone to consistently really upon for the short yardage situations and while I think Hunt may not ever be an every down back in the NFL, I feel he will thrive in the short yardage role right off the bat. Those two backs combined with an up and coming offensive line has to make you weary when thinking about stopping their run game. The depth isn't great, but I am trying to stick with who is going to be on the field and staying away from "potential" injury scenarios.

2-Washington Redskins

The best 1-2 punch in the division here as I was really impressed with Betts more often than not last year. He rushed for almost 5 YPC and led some to even believe that Portis might be trade bait this past offseason. Portis is obviously still the #1 guy and he has showed glimpses of dominance here and there but I'm not sure the stronger version of him is better than the quicker, slashing version. I understand it has something to do with the scheme, but I simply believe he is not as effective as a power runner. Still a tough player to stop though and if he stays healthy this season, him and Betts could make an argument for being amongst the top rushing duo in the league. Their line took a hit with the loss of Dockery and their line was not as dominant last year as I thought it would be. Still a formiddable group though that will win the trench war more often than not.

3-New York Giants

Perhaps the biggest question mark coming into the season is how the Giants will fare without Tiki. What many don't know is that his replacement Brandon Jacobs is not just a power runner. Many will look at his height and weight and label him a short yardage back but many fail to realize how good of a runner he is. He is faster than Tiki...not as quick and does not cut back the way Tiki did, but he can outrun some DBs downfield. He has also been working with Barber's personal trainer whom many think is THE reason Tiki took his game to an elite level the past few seasons. The concern I have with him is that he may come down with the Eddie George syndrome where his legs are going to take too much of a pounding. He needs to run lower and while he has improved there over the past couple years, he'll have to really apply it to his game if he wants to stay on the field. Not sure what to expect out of Droughns but he did rush for over 1,000 yards in Cleveland behind one of the worst lines in football and he won't have full time duty here. I'd be suprised if Jacobs/Droughns did not combine 1600 yards. The LT situatiuon is still unsolved but if Diehl does end up there, our running game will be even better because he along with Seubert were on the left side last year when our running game was at it's best.

4-Dallas Cowboys

Please don't attack be Cowboys fans for putting you "last" here because I think all four teams have strong running games. In no way do I think the Dallas run game is poor, I just think it is a notch below the rest of the division. Jones...well we all know what he is and you guys have admitted it yourselves, he is a backup RB that has a starting job. He isn't tough enough to run in between the tackles on a consistent basis and he isn't fast enough to get to the edge on a consistent basis. I think Barber is the best RB on your team because I love his angry style he displays. He knows how to finish off runs and fall forward with three guys trying to take him down. But even he has his physical limitations and is much better suited in a role as a complement to someone else, that someone else has to better than Jones. I think your play in the trenches will improve because even though I don't like Leonard Davis, he is a powerful run blocker and can be very effective if utilized correctly.

Passing Game

1-Philadelphia Eagles

Have to give the nod to the Eagles again because they have the best QB in the division by a wide margin. It will be interesting to see how McNabb comes back from his injury and while I would not be suprised to see him struggle, I think he will still be at high level in 07. I think Kevin Curtis is a perfect match for that offense as he runs crisp routes and owns a pair of sure hands. I loved Reggie Brown coming out of college and I think this will be his year to take off, I am expecting big things out of him. LJ Smith has become one of the more underrated TEs in the league and while he does disappear at times, he too is a perfect fit for that offense. Westbrook is the best receiver out of the backfield and might have some of the best hands in the division if you think about it. Again, their line is the best in the division and you have to get a little scared once you analyze how difficult this offense may be to stop should McNabb come back 100%.

2-Dallas Cowboys

Now I still am very skeptical when it comes to Romo because of the way he finished the season. All a defensive mind needs sometimes is a few game films to be able to make a new, hot QB look silly which is what I saw out of Romo at times down the stretch. I am not a defensive guru but even I could realize that once you force him to make decisions under pressure IN the pocket, he struggles. Now I am not saying he is going to be bad this year (hence the #2 spot) but if it weren't for his supporting cast, even Cowboys fans may even realize that he isn't that good. The Cowboys have the best WR duo in Owens and Glenn even though they're both getting up there in age and down there in speed. But if Owens can solve his dropitis, it will spread things out for Glenn and the Cowboys darkhorse, Patrick Crayton who I like a lot. Throw them in the mix with Witten and you have a very strong and reliable unit to make plays all over the field. The only thing that may hold this aspect of their offense back is their line of course. I'm not sold on Flozell being pro-bowl caliber and Davis can easily be beat by an above average pass rusher. The right side is good, but again nothing that will be dominant against a group of solid pass rushers.

3-New York Giants

This will be the last year that I will tolerarte inconsistencies with Eli. After this season, I will expect him to carry this offense for the next 5-6-7 years. His struggles could be attributed to inconsistent play from the line that forces him into poor mechanics, or injuries to his two most reliable targets in Shockey and Toomer, or a horrid scheme that creates no seperation whatsoever for Eli to work with according to Troy Aikman. But despite those roadblocks, Eli needs to progress himself especially with his accuracy. New QB coach Chris Palmer has been making progress with him and Eli has said he already feels more comfortable with the tweaked playbook and new instruction he is receiving. Plax has been up here during the offseason, working with Eli and there are now stories out that these two are working their tails off together to take their game to the next level. If the chemistry is there between the two, the league better watch out because it hasn't been there the past two years and they still have been a more than solid connection. Not sure what to expect out of Toomer because he is aging and coming off an ACL injury, but his role as the chains mover/posession receiver over the middle will remain the same and his probable decrease in speed won't be a big deal. Shockey is primed for a huge season as Gilbride publicly stated that his objective this year will be to get Shockey more involved early and more involved downfield. The line will be what hold this unit back IMO unless Diehl is better than expected as a pass protector at LT. If Shaffer can be brought in, I'd feel much more comfortable because once Eli loses confidence in his line, he thinks too much and is forced into mistakes.

4-Washington Redskins

I was pretty impressed by Campbell's arm strength last year and I think his ceiling is pretty high. He seemed lost at times last year but what can you expect from a youngster being thrown into the fire? A lot will depend on his ability to mentally progress and his ability to fix his accuracy issues. I'm not sure if this will be his year and I'm not sure if he has the targets he needs just yet though. I like Moss a lot and he appears to be closer to Steve Smith than most believe, but there is nothing behind him. Randle El is excellent for trick plays and I guess he is a decent slot option, but him and Lloyd as the other WR options? Thats way too weak IMO. Cooley didn't have the year most were expecting last season and while I still believe he can be a threat in the short and intermediate game, I don't see him making the progression for Campbell any easier than many other TEs in the game. Samuels is the best LT in the division, but I saw Jansen struggle a lot last year and I have a feeling he may be nearing the end. Their pass protection might be a struggle this season and again, I think it will hamper Campbell's progression.

Run Defense

1-Dallas Cowboys

The front seven of the Cowboys defense is downright scary, especially against the run when you consider the youth they have there. I may be in the minority here but I still think Ferguson is a stud as a 3-4 NT and he does the job almost as good as any other NT in the league. It starts with him, along with their abundance of DEs that may not rush the passer well, but they are stout at the point of attack and are able to occupy blockers. I like what James and Ayodele bring to the table and if Carpenter gets the nod in the middle, he'll be much better than he was last year on the outside. Ware is evolving into a premier player on the defensive side of the ball and he really impressed me last year. I put the eyeball on him in run defense he was leaps and bounds ahead of where he was at in 2005. I expect him to get even better this year and close the gap on Merriman. Will Spencer be tough against the run run right away? Probably not but I think he'll be good enough to start on the best run defense in the division, what more do you want out of a rookie? Roy Williams and Ken Hamlin both support the run extremely well and they will come up and lay the wood if a back can rip through a tough front 7. If Dallas makes a lot of noise this year, which they certainly can, I expect this unit to be the reason.

2-New York Giants

The Giants were amongst the league leaders in run defense halfway through the year until the unit was ripped apart by a different injury each week. Barry Cofield came out of nowhere and played an excellent 4-3 NT which allowed Pierce the room to make plenty of tackles. Robbins had a career year not only in the pass rush department, but also against the run with his quick first step that got him into the backfield and cause disruption. Strahan and Umenyiora are amongst the best run defending DEs in the league and that is why they are regarded as the best duo in the league to some. Moving Kiwanuka to OLB will be a learning curve and might be a struggle, but I think the struggles will reside in pass defense more so than playing the run. He was exceptional against the run last year showing the ability to shed blocks and take proper angles, thus I have to believe he will do the same thing as an OLB as well. The WILL position will make or break the run defense IMO with the likes of Mitchell and Wilkinson not exactly spelling a ton of confidence in me, but neither of them will be horrid to the point where it will affect our defense to a deep degree. Like the Cowboys, our safeties are a liability in coverage to be kind, but they support the run well and have a knack for forcing the fumble.

3-Washington Redskins

It was tough for me to put the Skins ahead of the Eagles here, but the Skins LB core bought me over. While Fletcher has lost a step and is near the end, he is still the best LB the Skins have had in the middle since Pierce was there. Put him in the mix with one of the better SAMs in the game (Washington) and an up and comer (McIntosh) and you could have a very much improved unit against the run. The problem however lies with the line where there are simply no bodies that can occupy blockers. Yes, Daniels is tough against the run but he is not an every down player and he too is on the decline. Even if Griffin comes back strong, he is more of a pass rusher and doesn't do much against the run and when you have Salave'a along with some mediocre at best DTs playing beside him, there could be trouble because tight games are won and lost in the trenches and there are not may O-lines that could not push around these guys. But you can't forget about Taylor and Landry whom I fear because they love to come up and lay the wood on a ball carrier. Safeties are not that big of a factor against the run....unless of course your safeties are Laron Landry and Sean Taylor.

4-Philadelphia Eagles

Hey, if I'm wrong about this line against the run then I will admit it. But as of right now, their line is going to get eaten up and Trotter is the only LB on that team worth noting. Sure, he MIGHT be the best MLB in the division but when you look in front of him and look to his left and right, you cannot honestly say their run defense is going to be tough. Now, Spikes was a nice addition but he is not the Spikes of old, not even close actually. A few years of aging and a nasty injury have slowed him down more than just a little bit, and I was hoping the Giants would not get him. Gaither, McCoy, Gocong, Bradley....I mean those guys just don't strike fear into me at all. Plus, they lost a safety that was awful in coverage, but supported the run very well and are replacing him with.....Gaddis? That won't help their run defense either. If there is one thing that will hold the Eagles back other than McNabb's knee, I think it will be this run defense which might come back to haunt them down the stretch in tight games.

Pass Defense

1-Philadelphia Eagles

The best CB duo and the best safety still resides in Philly and the loss of an underachieving SS in coverage won't mean a thing. Brown and Sheppard had another strong year in 2006 and they are both entering their prime. I think James will take a big step this year now that he is fully healthy and back inthe routing of things. Him as a nickel back makes that formation very strong. Dawkins is still the stud he always has been at safety and even though he is old, he is one of those guys that I will not downplay until he actually has a poor season. It will be interesting to see who plays next to him though but honestly, whoever it is won't be much worse than Lewis against the pass. The pass rush will be strong yet again with loads of pass rushers at DE and DT. Johnson is arguably the best in the business in calling blitzes to pressure the QB and there is no reason to think they will not continure to excel there.

2-Dallas Cowboys

The best CB in the division resides in Dallas in Anthony Henry. JK TNew don't flip out. Seriously, Newman is arguably the best player on the defensive side of the ball in this division IMO. I put the eyeball on him last year and I came away very impressed, he is one of the few CBs in the game that has true shut-down ability. While I am not in love with the likes of Roy, Hamlin, Henry, and Glenn in coverage, they are still a respectable core that can get the job done. It is finally becoming apparent to Cowboys fans that Roy is not bad, but downright awful in coverage and while I like Hamlin, I'm not sure he is the CF they need in that secondary. Henry/Glenn will add another year to their bodies and they may struggle down the stretch again, but like Hamlin they can still make plays and hold their own. I expect the pass rush to improve under Phillips in year one with the likes of Ware and Spencer likely combining for 20+ sacks. There does however need to be a better rush from the line though, and we'll see what Phillips can do with Spears who still has the tools to be a great player.

3-New York Giants

This unit was incredibly tough to watch last year, very frustrating. They seemed to be at their worst on 3rd down with absolutely nobody within arms length of any of the receivers. Now that Tim Lewis is finally gone, the team will play to the players strengths and implement more press coverage. Madison is not what he once was in Miami, but he played well when playing the press scheme and I have to think he can bring his game to a higher level than where it was last year. I actually expect Ross to win the other CB spot and while he may go through some rookie struggles, he will upgrade the position right away. We needed a playmaker back there that could come down with the ball as well as run downfield with WRs and those are two things he can do. Demps and Wilson had a rough year and while I expect them to still be picked on as the weakness of our D, the staff has been making an emphasis on Gibril getting back to where he played as a rookie when he didn't have to think so much, just read and react. The pass rush is going to be dynamite this year unless of course we go through another storm of injuries. Osi is primed for a huge year, Spags is going to have fun with Kiwanuka as a blitzing backer, and Strahan has something to prove. They might not be good enough to hide our secondary issues, but they will hinder them enough to make the unit average instead of terrible.

4-Washington Redskins

The lack of pass rush here is the main reason I have them ranked last. One of the worst pass rushes in NFL history gets upgraded with....um, nobody? There is some promise at CB with Rogers and I think Springs/Smoot could do well on the other side, but they are not good enough to play with such a horrid line. Landry and Taylor will make it tough for passing plays across the middle for a variety of reasons, but Taylor struggled last year and you cannot deny that. Was it a fluke or has he been figured out in coverage? Landry was decent in coverage at LSU and while I compare him to a young Brian Dawkins...he too will need help in that department. They don't compliment each other very well in coverage and with QBs having all day to pick that secondary apart, there could be some huge plays downfield week in and week out.

Special Teams

*I don't feel like typing much more, so I'll just rank them.

1-Philadelphia Eagles
2-Dallas Cowboys
3-New York Giants
4-Washington Redskins

2007 NFC East Predictions

1-Philadephia Eagles (11-5)

I think McNabb is going to have a huge year despite the knee recovery he is undergoing. The maturation of that line will make things a lot easier and Westbrook is evolving into a star, if he isn't one already. The defense may be getting a little on the old side with the best player at each level well into their 30's, but they are still going strong and haven't showed any signs of slowing down. Best coaching staff as well.

2-Dallas Cowboys (10-6)

A lot will be on Romo's shoulders this year and I am anxious to see how he responds. I'd be suprised to see him play at a high level all year, but I think that could be minimized by a strong, strong defense and a nice supporting cast on offense.

3-New York Giants (9-7)

Questions all over this place, more so than any year in recent memory. LT is still unsolved although I am not worrying too much about it because Diehl has played good enough there if nobody else steps up to the plate. Eli has to take that next step and Jacobs has to prove that he can get the job done as a full time back. The defense will be better without the injuries of course and a new scheme that the players are raving about right now.

4-Washington Redskins (6-10)

A young QB is in a situation that just doesn't seem too attractive right now. Unless I am wrong about his accuracy and they have a replacement for Dockery and Jansen can get back to where was a couple years ago, I see that offense struggling. The defense will be decent but their line will let them down in more ways than one.



Alright ladies, let's get this going!!!!

D-Unit
05-08-2007, 08:51 PM
Helluva post, I'll disect it later. Been waiting for this... Tired of browsing your team forums. The Cowboys forum has turned into a huge homer fest and I'm sick of it.

nobodyinparticular
05-08-2007, 08:54 PM
Nice post. I'll work on the AFC West as soon as I finish my draft write-up. Which will happen sometime after I start it. Hmmm...

elway777
05-08-2007, 08:58 PM
Can't wait NIP!

FloridaFootball
05-08-2007, 09:01 PM
I being a Redskins fan would like to argue that the redskins have the best running game in the division. Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts are now both proven 1000 yard rushers behind an offensive line that has been together for 3 years, the only question mark for the skins rushing game will be how well Todd Wade steps in and replaces Dockery.

The Unseen
05-08-2007, 09:02 PM
An AFC South thread would be absolutely boring and non-confrontatial. Considering that such is the criteria for a rivalry thread, it would be a waste.

btw, nice write-up Number Osi

Eagles own the NFC East
05-08-2007, 09:03 PM
good post dude... no homerism at all but one thing i disagree with, Eagles 4th in run defense. We have a better D-Line then the Redskins, and we also got Takeo Spikes whose a very solid OLB. We could be worse but i dont know...

My predictions:
1. Eagles 12-4
We have improved our defense via FA and added Curtis to the offense despite losing injury prone Stallworth.

2. Dallas Cowboys 9-7
They have made some upgrades, however I question the teams transition to a strict coach in Parcells to a very laid back one in Wade Phillips who can't match Parcells in coaching ability. Was Tony Romo a fluke?

3. Washington Redskins 7-9
I think they arent as bad as their record from last season shows. They had some injuries, and had a bad QB situation with struggling Brunell and young Campbell. I think Campbell will make strides this season, however on defense they really needed to upgrade their pass rush and D-Line but they failed to.

4. New York Giants 6-10
They lost Tiki Barber, replaced him with Droughns... Can Jacobs take the full work load? Did they solve their problems at LB? Can Ross upgrade the secondary right away? Their offensive line got worse without Pettigout, and they still have Coughlin has coach. How will Eli play to is the question.

remix 6
05-08-2007, 09:05 PM
sigh..most overrated division each year. Cowboys suck..Giants suck..Skins are dumb and Eagles are pretty good

wanna talk about an East team? Come see AFC East..blow you out anyday

portis_clinton
05-08-2007, 09:05 PM
It annoys me when people say the Redskins did nothing to upgrade their pass rush situation.

skinzzfan25
05-08-2007, 09:06 PM
I being a Redskins fan would like to argue that the redskins have the best running game in the division. Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts are now both proven 1000 yard rushers behind an offensive line that has been together for 3 years, the only question mark for the skins rushing game will be how well Todd Wade steps in and replaces Dockery.

I agree, Redskins should no question be number 1 running team. Our run defense was, and probably still will be average at best when healthy. Our pass though was already good and just got better with Landry.

Bump up run offense
Bump down run defense and bump up pass defense.

Other than that, good assessment.

Aftermath
05-08-2007, 09:06 PM
Start an AFC North one someone.

SeanTaylorRIP
05-08-2007, 09:07 PM
Portis, Betts, Blaylock, Rock, Sellers over Westbrook and Hunt any day.

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 09:08 PM
Running Game
1. Redskins - Two legit starters
2. Eagles - Simply Westbrook
3. Cowboys - Added a runblocker in Davis, but Barber and Jones aren't stars yet.
4. Giants - I see the potential for greatness in Jacobs, but I'd be a homer to rank us higher due to potential.

Passing
1. Eagles - McNabb obviously, Westbrook helps
2. Giants - Eli has way more weapons with Moss and Smith expected to step up
3. Cowboys - Owens and Glenn are older, not sure how much longer they can last
4. Redskins - Very speedy WRs, but nobody that can really go over the middle. Campbell is not there yet.

Run Defense
1. Cowboys - Great LB corp. in Carpenter, Ware, and Spencer
2. Eagles - Takeo Spikes + great young DTs
3. Giants - Shaking up the LB corp a bit, added DT depth.
4. Redskins - LBs are old, DT depth is lacking

Pass Defense
1. Eagles - Great young corners + Dawkins
2. Cowboys - They didn't play up to their potential last year
3. Giants - Young and athletic guys in Ross, Webster and Wilson
4. Redskins - Great safties, don't like their corners

Records
1. Eagles 10-6
2. Giants 9-7
3. Cowboys 9-7
4. Redskins 5-11

Eagles own the NFC East
05-08-2007, 09:08 PM
I agree, Redskins should no question be number 1 running team. Our run defense was, and probably still will be average at best when healthy. Our pass though was already good and just got better with Landry.

Bump up run offense
Bump down run defense and bump up pass defense.

Other than that, good assessment.
Yeah thats true easily surprised he put Eagles for best running game, Skins got a perrenial pro bowler, and a guy who could start on a lot of teams.

GB12
05-08-2007, 09:08 PM
Yeah the run game is a little mixed up. I think this order is more accurate:

1.Washington
2.Philladelphia
3.Dallas
4.New York

jkpigskin
05-08-2007, 09:09 PM
nice read.... i find this division the hardest to gauge

check your pm's number 10!

SeanTaylorRIP
05-08-2007, 09:10 PM
Also Skins special teams I think is really good other than Kicker but Suisham showed promised. Frost bounced back last year and is an above average punter, Randle El is arguably the most dangerous return man in the division, Thrash and Rock are some of the best gunners in the league, and Rock and Ladell each had kick return TD's last season. I know you don't want to put the skins #1 at anything but they have run game for sure.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 09:12 PM
Regarding the running game-

The Eagles line is better then Skins line, and that was before the departure of Dockery. Add that to the fact that the Eagles have the best RB in the division.....

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 09:13 PM
Regarding the running game-

The Eagles line is better then Skins line, and that was before the departure of Dockery. Add that to the fact that the Eagles have the best RB in the division.....
Eagles O-line is better at pass blocking, I don't know about run blocking.

SeanTaylorRIP
05-08-2007, 09:15 PM
I'd take a back capable of 1500+ yards and a back who ran for over 1,000 yards in 9 games over Westbrook a guy who has never rushed for over 1250 yards. Betts almost had as many yards as him last season. Sure Westbrook gives the huge advantage in the passing game but running game skins take it, our line is fine Todd Wade is average at worst. Our left side of the line Chris Samuels, Randy Thomas, Rabach were opening 10 yard holes last year.

Bengals1690
05-08-2007, 09:19 PM
Start an AFC North one someone.

ill do it tommorrow

Number 10
05-08-2007, 09:19 PM
I'd take a back capable of 1500+ yards and a back who ran for over 1,000 yards in 9 games over Westbrook a guy who has never rushed for over 1250 yards. Betts almost had as many yards as him last season. Sure Westbrook gives the huge advantage in the passing game but running game skins take it, our line is fine Todd Wade is average at worst. Our left side of the line Chris Samuels, Randy Thomas, Rabach were opening 10 yard holes last year.

I'd take Westbrook over Portis any day.

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 09:21 PM
I'd take Westbrook over Portis any day.
Me too. Westbrook is more dynamic.

Aftermath
05-08-2007, 09:22 PM
ill do it tommorrow

Sounds good my fellow Bengal.

Eagles own the NFC East
05-08-2007, 09:23 PM
Eagles O-line is better at pass blocking, I don't know about run blocking.
We have one of the best run blockers in the game... Shawn Andrews.

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 09:27 PM
We have one of the best run blockers in the game... Shawn Andrews.
Our left side of the line Chris Samuels, Randy Thomas, Rabach were opening 10 yard holes last year.
Redskins are better as a whole. (no pun intended)

Sniper
05-08-2007, 09:30 PM
I'd take a back capable of 1500+ yards and a back who ran for over 1,000 yards in 9 games over Westbrook a guy who has never rushed for over 1250 yards. Betts almost had as many yards as him last season. Sure Westbrook gives the huge advantage in the passing game but running game skins take it, our line is fine Todd Wade is average at worst. Our left side of the line Chris Samuels, Randy Thomas, Rabach were opening 10 yard holes last year.


If the Redskins had a competent passing offense, neither of them would have as many yards. Philly also throws the ball 98.3% of the time, which kinda hurts Westbrook's rushing total. I was also doubtful of the Eagles line run blocking, but when they found out what a running game was, they looked pretty decent. Westbrook is more a multi-purpose back instead of a pure back, as evidenced by his 700 rec yards last year

1. Philly (11-5)
2. Dallas (9-7)
3. New York (7-9)
4. Washington (6-10)

Sniper
05-08-2007, 09:31 PM
Redskins are better as a whole. (no pun intended)

This is a filthy lie. Shawn Andrews counts as 11 people

Number 10
05-08-2007, 09:32 PM
http://www.khanhdom.com/cms/htmlos/0655.26.46157316920619360102/1000190_brandonjacobs

For all of the Jacobs doubters. He is a lot faster and a lot more agile than you think.

GiantRutgersFan
05-08-2007, 09:35 PM
Very nice write up Number 10. heres my take


Running Game-

1. Eagles- Westbrook is a great player, and they have a very good line. I hope that Reid doesnt keep a balanced attack this year.

2. Redskins- Clinton Portis and Ladell Betts are a damn good tandem

3. Giants- The line is very good at run blocking and I got faith in Jacobs. Droughns isnt bad either

4. Cowboys- Marion Barber and Julius Jones are both fairly mediocre. Not terrible, but not a great running game either.

Passing Game

1a. Cowboys- TO and Terry Glenn is a pretty fierce group of WRs and Witten is a good pass catching TE. They have the weapons, but it comes down to Romo and if he can handle it.

1b. New York Giants- A lot of depth in the WR ranks this year. Moss and Smith should be nice additions to the passing game (Moss being injured last year). I want to see what Eli can do with some good receivers.

1c. Philadelphia- Mcnabb is Mcnabb, and if he stays healthy the Eagles should have a good passing game. If he gets injured again, Idk how much a backup QB can do with Phillys weapons

4. Redskins- Jason Campbell is a young Qb and they dont have all that great recievers outside of Moss

Run Defense

1. Giants- the D-line is very, very good. Pierce is good in stopping the run, and Kiwi should do a good job in terms of stopping the run (he was great at it last year at DE). Only question is our WILL backer who should be adaquete (whether its Wilkinson, Blackburn, or Mitchell). Safetys contribute pretty nicely as well

2. Dallas- they got a very good defense on paper for next year. The LBs should be pretty good next year. the weak spot of the front 7 is the DEs, who arent terrible, but arent great either.

3. Eagles- solid for sure

4. Redskins- not bad. I like their LBs, but upfront there not that great.

Pass Defense

1. Redskins- damn good secondary. safety tandem is insane....

2. Eagles- pretty good

3. Cowboys- also pretty good.

4. Giants- we have a terrible secondary, but hopefully its improved this year.


Predictions


1. Giants (10-6)- much easier schedule, Eli should improve, defense should improve, and provided we dont get killed with injurys, we should be a good team whos gonna surprise a lot of people next year.

2. Cowboys (10-6)- I think Romo is gonna sputter a bit, but the Cowboys are good enough besides that to make the playoffs.

3. Eagles (9-7)- Mcnabb is a huge question mark. Im not sold that he is gonna be unaffected by all these injurys. In addition he wasnt winning games before going down next year. plus another injury wouldnt surprise me

4. Redskins (7-9)- I think they are gonna be a little better then last year. they should be a solid enough team and would probably contend for a wildcard if not in the East.

cunningham06
05-08-2007, 09:36 PM
http://www.khanhdom.com/cms/htmlos/0655.26.46157316920619360102/1000190_brandonjacobs

For all of the Jacobs doubters. He is a lot faster and a lot more agile than you think.

I know that he's fast, but his style of running may make him easy to contain to inside running lanes.

The Eagles and Cowboys look like they are the favorites of the division, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Redskins do better than expected.

ricky bobby
05-08-2007, 09:36 PM
http://www.khanhdom.com/cms/htmlos/0655.26.46157316920619360102/1000190_brandonjacobs

For all of the Jacobs doubters. He is a lot faster and a lot more agile than you think.
You still can't put him over proven running backs. I'm sure he'll do great this season, but most people won't give him the benefit of the doubt until he has a great year.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 09:38 PM
You still can't put him over proven running backs. I'm sure he'll do great this season, but most people won't give him the benefit of the doubt until he has a great year.

I'm not putting him ahead of Portis or Westbrook, but I will put him ahead of Jones/Barber because they have not established much more than mediocrity.

Sniper
05-08-2007, 09:40 PM
By the way Number 10 hell of a job on the thread

D-Unit
05-08-2007, 09:47 PM
It annoys me when people say the Redskins did nothing to upgrade their pass rush situation.
In terms of beefing up the secondary, that should help the pass rush some, however, what people are referring to is the lack of elite talent or added talent at DE... the position most responsible for pressuring the QB.

Sniper
05-08-2007, 09:49 PM
So who do you guys think the first WR will be brave enough to run across the middle on the Redskins is? Here's hoping it's T.O, and he gets decapitated. Those safeties can hit, holy smokes

Number 10
05-08-2007, 09:50 PM
So who do you guys think the first WR will be brave enough to run across the middle on the Redskins is? Here's hoping it's T.O, and he gets decapitated. Those safeties can hit, holy smokes

Shockey will and he will hurt one of them.

cunningham06
05-08-2007, 09:52 PM
Westbrook is great and is a home-run threat every time he touches the ball, but I don't know if I would say we've got a better run game than the Redskins. Portis and Betts both did extremely well as starters. That being said the Eagles are pretty stacked at RB this season, so I think the gap between us and the Redskins isn't very big at all. Westbrook, Buckhalter, Hunt, and Ilaoa are going to be fun to watch this season. Ilaoa especially because for a big guy he's pretty versatile.

D-Unit
05-08-2007, 09:52 PM
I would take Westbrook over Portis. Portis is a bit overrated. He doesn't create yardage on his own, is not a good pass blocker nor a good receiver out of the backfield. He's a better in between the tackle runner than Westbrook, but Portis seems to have a hard time getting into the endzone. I consider Westbrook a better playmaker that will open the offense more.

D-Unit
05-08-2007, 09:55 PM
So who do you guys think the first WR will be brave enough to run across the middle on the Redskins is? Here's hoping it's T.O, and he gets decapitated. Those safeties can hit, holy smokes
I think the QB that leads his receivers first will cause it... and that QB will be Eli Manning. Sooo Eli + a rookie WR = Poor ole Steve Smith. That's my bet.

Roy and Hamlin will also be looking to turn the lights off.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 09:55 PM
I would take Westbrook over Portis. Portis is a bit overrated. He doesn't create yardage on his own, is not a good pass blocker nor a good receiver out of the backfield. He's a better in between the tackle runner than Westbrook, but Portis seems to have a hard time getting into the endzone. I consider Westbrook a better playmaker that will open the offense more.

I think Portis was better as a slasher but now that he has added all this muscle....I don't know...he just doesn't scare me with the ball in his hands. Any time Westbrook has the ball, I'm scared. Simply put.

critesy
05-08-2007, 10:05 PM
I would take Westbrook over Portis. Portis is a bit overrated. He doesn't create yardage on his own, is not a good pass blocker nor a good receiver out of the backfield. He's a better in between the tackle runner than Westbrook, but Portis seems to have a hard time getting into the endzone. I consider Westbrook a better playmaker that will open the offense more.


last year in 7 games started he had 7 touchdowns

year before in 16 games started he had 11

now that isnt great but i dont think he is having trouble finding the endzone by any means.

cunningham06
05-08-2007, 10:09 PM
I think Portis was better as a slasher but now that he has added all this muscle....I don't know...he just doesn't scare me with the ball in his hands. Any time Westbrook has the ball, I'm scared. Simply put.

I don't know it seems like Portis is being underrated by many which tends to happen a lot after a player is injured for most of the season. Westbrook was really good last season, but he REALLY turned it on in the playoffs. If he can be that dynamic during the regular season this year, then I agree he is better than Portis, but Portis up until now has been more consistent.

bearsfan_51
05-08-2007, 10:12 PM
No way that three teams in the East have winning records. It didn't happen last year, and each team is arguably worse than the year before.

Moses
05-08-2007, 10:19 PM
No way that three teams in the East have winning records. It didn't happen last year, and each team is arguably worse than the year before.

I agree. I think this division is slightly overhyped. Yes, it's a very tough division with 4 teams that could win any given year. That said, the chance of the division producing 3 winners is slim to none. My early predictions are Philadelphia winning the divisions and the Cowboys possibly grabbing a Wild Card.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 10:21 PM
No way that three teams in the East have winning records. It didn't happen last year, and each team is arguably worse than the year before.

Their schedules are all easier...and the Giants were 8-8 with I think the 3rd toughest schedule in the league and the worst injury situation on the league.

bored of education
05-08-2007, 10:22 PM
I'd take Portis over any other RB in the NFC EAST

diabsoule
05-08-2007, 10:22 PM
I'll probably be doing one of these write-ups for the NFC South.

LitoSheppard
05-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Dead on Eagles predictions!!! plus rep

Sniper
05-08-2007, 10:23 PM
Number 10, your earlier post about Shockey across the middle is accurate. What an animal. Him and Barber were the only Giant offensive players with any fire last year....I'd love him in Eagle green though;)

Shiver
05-08-2007, 10:25 PM
I'll probably be doing one of these write-ups for the NFC South.

I would too, and I probably will, but the NFC South doesn't generate near the hype and controversy as the overrated NFC East.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 10:28 PM
Though there are a ton of Bucs fans for whatever reason.

Paul
05-08-2007, 10:42 PM
I was looking for a opportunity to pounce N10, but your write up was definitely well thought out and concise. Dammit.

But I do want to talk about the Cowboys Defense. There were times last year where we looked so lethargic and slow it was frustrating. We got away with it for most of the year until Sean Peyton came to town, and exposed our vulnerabilities. And boy did other teams take note. Even more frustrating, was the defenses inability to make that key 3rd down or 4th down stop, which was apparent in the playoff game against the Seattle. The fault for that could be spread around from Zimmer, right down to the execution by the players, but not one should be spared from the scrutiny. Now what have we done to improve Our D? Key addition IMO was Wade Phillips, a real 3-4 mind who has the ability of taking full of advantage of the personnel we have. I heard nothing but "He will let D. Ware loose" type conversation when he was hired, but until I see it I will hold my tongue. As for getting Hamlin, I was not totally excited about the acquisition, but I was happy we finally got an experienced FS who can line others up and knows the assignments. I do agree with skepticism of his ability to be that center field guy, but if he can be the "defenses QB" as Jerry and Wade eluded to, then I will be happy. And finally, to me the biggest addition was the pick of Anthony Spencer. I loved this kid coming out, and with health of Ellis in question and Carp possibly moving inside, this was a no brainer for me. You can look at the stats and all that and be impressed, but the most important stat that I saw was the 21 third-down stops and five fourth-down tackles he executed in 2006. Like I said, our inability to make that key stop was one of biggest faults of our defense last year, and I know Spencer wont single handedly fix that, but he will surely improve it.

With that said, I feel very good about our D this year. We finally plugged that hole at FS, we have great depth at LB, good youth and talent at DE, and we have a coach who has a reputation of putting the right players at the right places at the right times. Now of course I do have my worries about the lack of depth at NT, a vital part of the 3-4, and the productivity we will get out of DEs, but if all the parts fall into place I truly see a top 5 defense.

Paul
05-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Helluva post, I'll disect it later. Been waiting for this... Tired of browsing your team forums. The Cowboys forum has turned into a huge homer fest and I'm sick of it.

Aside from Achilles/Tnew and one or two of the newer guys, I don't really see that much homerism there. Much less a "homer fest".

etk
05-08-2007, 10:53 PM
I'll probably be doing one of these write-ups for the NFC South.

I'll probably create enough commotion to make it survive :D

bearsfan_51
05-08-2007, 10:55 PM
I'll make one about the NFC Bears...I mean the NFC North.

etk
05-08-2007, 10:56 PM
Though there are a ton of Bucs fans for whatever reason.

Quality not quantity ;)

Why are there no Panthers posters?

Shiver
05-08-2007, 10:59 PM
Quality not quantity ;)

Why are there no Panthers posters?

Who cares, I know I don't mind. I hear enough about how great the Panthers are as is.

neko4
05-08-2007, 10:59 PM
Clinton Portis=Brian Westbrook
Ladell Betts>TOny Hunt(for now)
Betts is a 1000 yd rusher, so basically your saying Westbrook who had 1900 yd's and Hunt who is still unproven(tho I like very much) is better than Portis and Betts, both 1000 yd rushers.

Campbell just got his first starts and will have experience. Santana Moss is a WR who can hit 1300-1400 yards. Cooley is one of the better TE's. Lloyd and Randle El should have more chemistry this year w/ the QB's and Lloyd is a solid #2, and Randle El a borderline 2.

Rodgers, Springs, Smoot, Macklin
Landry, Taylor, Prielou?
Whether or not the pass rush is bad that is an amazing secondary and can make up for the pass rushes flaws.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:02 PM
Clinton Portis=Brian Westbrook
Ladell Betts>TOny Hunt(for now)
Betts is a 1000 yd rusher, so basically your saying Westbrook who had 1900 yd's and Hunt who is still unproven(tho I like very much) is better than Portis and Betts, both 1000 yd rushers.

Campbell just got his first starts and will have experience. Santana Moss is a WR who can hit 1300-1400 yards. Cooley is one of the better TE's. Lloyd and Randle El should have more chemistry this year w/ the QB's and Lloyd is a solid #2, and Randle El a borderline 2.

Rodgers, Springs, Smoot, Macklin
Landry, Taylor, Prielou?
Whether or not the pass rush is bad that is an amazing secondary and can make up for the pass rushes flaws.

Well, there's #1

etk
05-08-2007, 11:05 PM
Who cares, I know I don't mind. I hear enough about how great the Panthers are as is.

It seems like they are the NFC favourites every year but injuries have hurt them badly. Occasionally so has Jake Delhomme, the former feel-good story of the 21st century of football (for reasons that are beyond my knowledge). The rule changes on celebrations were nice because Steve Smith finally shut his arrogant little trap.

Paul
05-08-2007, 11:08 PM
A good secondary cannot make up for a flawed pass rush anymore. Ever since the rule changes over the years that pretty much handcuff defensive backs, a pass rush is must have for a successful defense.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:11 PM
A good secondary cannot make up for a flawed pass rush anymore. Ever since the rule changes over the years that pretty much handcuff defensive backs, a pass rush is must have for a successful defense.

And the Skins secondary is average at best in terms of coverage.

neko4
05-08-2007, 11:15 PM
A good secondary cannot make up for a flawed pass rush anymore. Ever since the rule changes over the years that pretty much handcuff defensive backs, a pass rush is must have for a successful defense.

I just dont believe they should 4th

Also Campbell's career is already reminiscent of Carson Palmer's. Like Palmer he sat out a year and then had an okay 2nd year. Also had Campbell started as many games as Palmer did in '04(13 for Palmer, 7 for Campbell) then Campbell would have more than likely had less INT's but more TD's.

Campbell
7 starts
10 TD's
6 Picks

Palmer
13 Starts
18 TD's
18 Picks

And Palmer was in a similar situation. Palmer had Chad, but outside of that was a developing TJ, and a draft bust.
Campbell has a dominate #1 and then two questionable WR's. (Tho Cooley does give Campbell a bit better WR core than Palmer)

neko4
05-08-2007, 11:17 PM
And the Skins secondary is average at best in terms of coverage.

even w/ a healthy Springs, and the additions of Smoot and Macklin?

Shiver
05-08-2007, 11:18 PM
Number 10, these are the things I disagree on:

Running Game

Your Ranking


1. Philadelphia
2. Washington
3. New York
4. Dallas

My Ranking


1. Washington
2. Philadelphia
3. Dallas
4. New York


Rationale: I think Westbrook and Portis is close, although I would give the edge to Brian Westbrook. However, the deal breaker is Ladell Betts versus Tony Hunt. No doubt I would take Betts, he's a proven 1,000 yard commodity.

Passing Game

After Philadelphia it is too close to definitively call. Thus I am inclined to agree with your order.

Run Defense

In agreement.

Pass Defense

I agree that Philadelphia is at the top. Though Sean Considine leaves a lot to be desired.

As for Dallas, their safeties lack ideal coverage skills. The only reason the pass defense will be good is if the pass rush masks all of their deficiencies.

New York, likewise with Dallas, require the pass rush to cover up the porous secondary. Unless Aaron Ross plays much better, right away, than I anticipate this should be a problem area if teams can hold up on the O-Line.

Indications are that Washington will trade for a Defensive End, and I've heard Alex Brown. If that is the case, I would put them ahead of Dallas. Otherwise you are right, the pass rush will hold them back.

Either way, all three secondaries are weak behind Philadelphia.

Overall

Very solid write up. So sound in fact, that it will be hard for the homers to find much to nitpick about.

bearsfan_51
05-08-2007, 11:19 PM
Also Campbell's career is already reminiscent of Carson Palmer's. Like Palmer he sat out a year and then had an okay 2nd year.
The funny thing is that you actually believe this garbage. You realize this applies to about 75% of all rookie QB's right? For every one that develops like Palmer, who was an elite prospect, something Campbell was not, there are 100 that continue to have mediocre NFL careers.

I mean honestly, after saying that, I can't imagine how anyone could ever take you seriously. And I'm not trying to be mean...but seriously....

That's like saying Jesus and Bob Villa had similar careers because they both started off as carpenters.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:20 PM
even w/ a healthy Springs, and the additions of Smoot and Macklin?

Smoot wasn't good enough for a poor secondary in Minny and Macklin...? What has he ever done to warrant anything notable?

Paul
05-08-2007, 11:20 PM
I would too, and I probably will, but the NFC South doesn't generate near the hype and controversy as the overrated NFC East.

Think of us as the AL East in baseball. Were not win the championship every year, but when you see one of us on TV, your going to watch.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 11:22 PM
East coast bias!

Paul
05-08-2007, 11:22 PM
Pass Defense

I agree that Philadelphia is at the top. Though Sean Considine leaves a lot to be desired.

As for Dallas I also think that your claim about Henry being the best corner is absurd, quite frankly. Teams targeted him relentlessly last year, and were rewarded. Teams generally avoided Terrence Newman, because with the rest of the secondary, why would you test him? Their safeties lack ideal coverage skills. The only reason the pass defense will be good is if the pass rush masks all of their deficiencies.


Dude, he was kidding.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:23 PM
Number 10, these are the things I disagree on:

Running Game

Your Ranking


1. Philadelphia
2. Washington
3. New York
4. Dallas

My Ranking


1. Washington
2. Philadelphia
3. Dallas
4. New York


Rationale: I think Westbrook and Portis is close, although I would give the edge to Brian Westbrook. However, the deal breaker is Ladell Betts versus Tony Hunt. No doubt I would take Betts, he's a proven 1,000 yard commodity.

Passing Game

After Philadelphia it is too close to definitively call. Thus I am inclined to agree with your order.

Run Defense

In agreement.

Pass Defense

I agree that Philadelphia is at the top. Though Sean Considine leaves a lot to be desired.

As for Dallas -My Bad- The only reason the pass defense will be good is if the pass rush masks all of their deficiencies.

New York, likewise with Dallas, require the pass rush to cover up the porous secondary. Unless Aaron Ross plays much better, right away, than I anticipate this should be a problem area if teams can hold up on the O-Line.

Indications are that Washington will trade for a Defensive End, and I've heard Alex Brown. If that is the case, I would put them ahead of Dallas. Otherwise you are right, the pass rush will hold them back.

Either way, all three secondaries are weak behind Philadelphia.

Overall

Very solid write up. So sound in fact, that it will be hard for the homers to find much to nitpick about.

hahaha....2 things-

Go read the Cowboys pass defense write up regarding Henry again, I think you missed something.

And I think you have to take into account the lines of Washington and Philly. Samuels is the best OL of the two groups, but from LG to RT I'd take every Philly lineman.

neko4
05-08-2007, 11:25 PM
The funny thing is that you actually believe this garbage. You realize this applies to about 75% of all rookie QB's right? For every one that develops like Palmer, who was an elite prospect, something Campbell was not, there are 100 that continue to have mediocre NFL careers.

I mean honestly, after saying that, I can't imagine how anyone could ever take you seriously. And I'm not trying to be mean...but seriously....

That's like saying Jesus and Bob Vila had similar careers because they both started off as carpenters.

I was trying to say that Campbell and Palmer had similar starts. People have compared players careers before.

neko4
05-08-2007, 11:27 PM
Smoot wasn't good enough for a poor secondary in Minny and Macklin...? What has he ever done to warrant anything notable?

Macklin wont have to even start. He would definitly be a good dime cb and smoot should do good enough at nickel

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:30 PM
Macklin wont have to even start. He would definitly be a good dime cb and smoot should do good enough at nickel

But you called them a great secondary, they are hardly good if that.

If you don't have a good secondary, you need a good pass rush unless your defense against the pass will be weak. Your secondary is average and your pass rush is horrid, end of argument.

Shiver
05-08-2007, 11:31 PM
hahaha....2 things-

Go read the Cowboys pass defense write up regarding Henry again, I think you missed something.



Yikes, how did I miss that one.

bearsfan_51
05-08-2007, 11:31 PM
I was trying to say that Campbell and Palmer had similar starts. People have compared players careers before.
It's a baseless comparison, the stats you pulled up mean next to nothing. As I said, that applies to so many Quarterbacks it's not even funny, you just want to use Carson because he's a successful QB that blossomed in a way that it's completely unrealistic to assume that Campbell will.

Plus the Jesus/Villa line was slammin'.

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:31 PM
It's a baseless comparison, the stats you pulled up mean next to nothing. As I said, that applies to so many Quarterbacks it's not even funny, you just want to use Carson because he's a successful QB that blossomed in a way that it's completely unrealistic to assume that Campbell will.

Plus the Jesus/Villa line was slammin'.

Yes it was .

neko4
05-08-2007, 11:36 PM
But you called them a great secondary, they are hardly good if that.

If you don't have a good secondary, you need a good pass rush unless your defense against the pass will be weak. Your secondary is average and your pass rush is horrid, end of argument.

And they are a great secondary. They have a solid #1 and 2 and Smoot and Macklin to be solid Nickels and dimes. Plus a pro bowl S and a potential pro bowler. Washington has 6 guys that can all do their job, and do it well.


Plus the Jesus/Villa line was slammin'.

Yeah it was

Sniper
05-08-2007, 11:40 PM
hahaha....2 things-

Go read the Cowboys pass defense write up regarding Henry again, I think you missed something.

And I think you have to take into account the lines of Washington and Philly. Samuels is the best OL of the two groups, but from LG to RT I'd take every Philly lineman.

Samuels is the best OL of the bunch? Shawn Andrews says hello

PACKmanN
05-08-2007, 11:40 PM
its time we have a nfc north thread :)

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:47 PM
And they are a great secondary. They have a solid #1 and 2 and Smoot and Macklin to be solid Nickels and dimes. Plus a pro bowl S and a potential pro bowler. Washington has 6 guys that can all do their job, and do it well.

SOlid # 1 and # 2?

Neither Rogers or Springs can be a true #1 IMO. Smoot wasn't good enough for a team that was in need of a CB. Macklin was mediocre in Arizona. Taylor struggled last year.

Nothing about that secondary as a whole is great.

bearsfan_51
05-08-2007, 11:50 PM
I think Laron Landry will be great, but I agree with you on the rest.

thule
05-08-2007, 11:54 PM
Any word on what the Giants are going to be running on defense. Will they be attacking?

Number 10
05-08-2007, 11:56 PM
Any word on what the Giants are going to be running on defense. Will they be attacking?

Eagles-like from what I hear out of Spags.

thule
05-09-2007, 12:00 AM
Eagles-like from what I hear out of Spags.

4 attacking defenses should make for some interesting games. All of the teams still have a TE that can stretch the seem...which makes it hard for us to match up our LB's against them. Bringing a safety up to man up...really hamstrings the defense leaving one guy deep in cover 1 or even cover 0 sometimes. Just because of this I think the Eagles have the best chance at the division. The best OL of the group.

OL
1- Eagles, solid all around
2- Cowboys, no loses and 3 key offseason additions
3- Redskins, Dockery will hurt
4- Giants, how will Mannings backside be

This is the key to the division in my eyes.

neko4
05-09-2007, 12:02 AM
SOlid # 1 and # 2?

Neither Rogers or Springs can be a true #1 IMO. Smoot wasn't good enough for a team that was in need of a CB. Macklin was mediocre in Arizona. Taylor struggled last year.

Nothing about that secondary as a whole is great.

Washington doesnt need Smoot or Macklin to be #1's or 2's.
Macklin and Smoot were mediocre as starters, but not backups.
Rogers is still young and is still developing, and Springs is on the way down but can still play #2

Number 10
05-09-2007, 12:07 AM
Washington doesnt need Smoot or Macklin to be #1's or 2's.
Macklin and Smoot were mediocre as starters, but not backups.
Rogers is still young and is still developing, and Springs is on the way down but can still play #2

So who is this "solid #1" you speak of?

Please don't say Rogers is a solid #1 CB.

Ewing
05-09-2007, 12:19 AM
1. Giants (10-6)- much easier schedule, Eli should improve, defense should improve, and provided we dont get killed with injurys, we should be a good team whos gonna surprise a lot of people next year.

2. Cowboys (10-6)- I think Romo is gonna sputter a bit, but the Cowboys are good enough besides that to make the playoffs.

3. Eagles (9-7)- Mcnabb is a huge question mark. Im not sold that he is gonna be unaffected by all these injurys. In addition he wasnt winning games before going down next year. plus another injury wouldnt surprise me

4. Redskins (7-9)- I think they are gonna be a little better then last year. they should be a solid enough team and would probably contend for a wildcard if not in the East.


How is McNabb a question mark but Eli isn't? Coughlin is ruining Manning's development and he's only going to screw it up more for him. There's no way the Giants finish first in the division without Tiki Barber. That team is finishing somewhere between 6-10 and 8-8 and Coughlin is going to be fired.

thule
05-09-2007, 12:21 AM
How is McNabb a question mark but Eli isn't? Coughlin is ruining Manning's development and he's only going to screw it up more for him. There's no way the Giants finish first in the division without Tiki Barber. That team is finishing somewhere between 6-10 and 8-8 and Coughlin is going to be fired.

As much of a concern is about the QB situation and the RB situation I still think Eli's backside is the biggest question mark going into TC.

Sniper
05-09-2007, 12:28 AM
Come on dude, you're dealing with GRF. The same guy who called Eli Manning "Mr. Clutch".

cunningham06
05-09-2007, 12:32 AM
SOlid # 1 and # 2?

Neither Rogers or Springs can be a true #1 IMO. Smoot wasn't good enough for a team that was in need of a CB. Macklin was mediocre in Arizona. Taylor struggled last year.

Nothing about that secondary as a whole is great.

Taylor did match up against #1 receivers a lot though last season.

niel89
05-09-2007, 12:33 AM
How is McNabb a question mark but Eli isn't? Coughlin is ruining Manning's development and he's only going to screw it up more for him. There's no way the Giants finish first in the division without Tiki Barber. That team is finishing somewhere between 6-10 and 8-8 and Coughlin is going to be fired.

i agree. Barber was an amazing running back and missing him would be a big issue. GRF you say eli should progress but that is not guaranteed. its very possible he says where he is or even regresses.

another fine point to ponder that BBD said before, look at how all 4 defenses are now aggressive defenses. Now look at the offenses run, the eagles with their WCO have the advantage in this respect compared to the opposing defensives.

thule
05-09-2007, 12:36 AM
i agree. Barber was an amazing running back and missing him would be a big issue. GRF you say eli should progress but that is not guaranteed. its very possible he says where he is or even regresses.

another fine point to ponder that BBD said before, look at how all 4 defenses are now aggressive defenses. Now look at the offenses run, the eagles with their WCO have the advantage in this respect compared to the opposing defensives.

The WCO might have the advantage...but jamming a WR on the line would lower it's effectiveness. I think the OL is the biggest factor in this division. If you can stop or delay the rush...the qb's can make plays.

niel89
05-09-2007, 12:37 AM
The WCO might have the advantage...but jamming a WR on the line would lower it's effectiveness. I think the OL is the biggest factor in this division. If you can stop or delay the rush...the qb's can make plays.

yeah i agree that oline play is important, but the eagles also have an excellent line also

thule
05-09-2007, 12:41 AM
yeah i agree that oline play is important, but the eagles also have an excellent line also

I said that about 8 posts ago man.

niel89
05-09-2007, 01:01 AM
I said that about 8 posts ago man.

did you know that the eagles have a good o line?

thule
05-09-2007, 01:04 AM
did you know that the eagles have a good o line?

you don't make any sense.

GiantRutgersFan
05-09-2007, 01:05 AM
How is McNabb a question mark but Eli isn't? Coughlin is ruining Manning's development and he's only going to screw it up more for him. There's no way the Giants finish first in the division without Tiki Barber. That team is finishing somewhere between 6-10 and 8-8 and Coughlin is going to be fired.


Well, Eli hasnt had a terrible season yet. in fact he has had exactly the same (solid) number of TDs/INTs 2 years in a row. even with major injuries on offense last year.


I think the chances of Eli being less then a decent starter are slim, while the chances of Mcnabb getting injured yet again, are high.

critesy
05-09-2007, 01:20 AM
now that smoot is back in washington in a defense that he loves and knows...i think his performance will go back up to what it was like in 01-04, he'll be very solid for #2 or 3 corner

and rogers can handle #1's, may not be the greatest or even great but he will handle them.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-09-2007, 01:25 AM
The only team I think from the NFL East that will get to the playoffs is Dallas.
NYG lost Tiki Barber which meant it lost all of its offensive firepower.
McNabb will once again get injured.
Washington wont get to the playoffs this year but will be better.

neko4
05-09-2007, 01:33 AM
So who is this "solid #1" you speak of?

Please don't say Rogers is a solid #1 CB.

Well Springs isnt anymore, but Rogers has the potential to become one this year
Plus the S's will help alot

neko4
05-09-2007, 01:36 AM
Well, Eli hasnt had a terrible season yet. in fact he has had exactly the same (solid) number of TDs/INTs 2 years in a row. even with major injuries on offense last year.


I think the chances of Eli being less then a decent starter are slim, while the chances of Mcnabb getting injured yet again, are high.

Eli hasnt been terrible but he hasnt become Peyton yet. But I do think McNabb will get hurt and while it was good that PHI took a QB, I dont think Kolb was the right one to pick

yourfavestoner
05-09-2007, 01:42 AM
I still don't understand why people think that adding another in the box safety is going to help the Redskins' pass defense.

D-Unit
05-09-2007, 02:12 AM
Instead of having a pissing contest, why don't we talk about our own teams' weaknesses.

For Dallas, I'm really worried about our depth at NT. Jason Ferguson is already not an ideal NT. He doesn't command a double team and that is the foundation of the 3-4. Behind him, we have some projects that could either be a surprise or be a major disappointment. It's a complete mystery, but the idea of a disappointment scares me.

At Center, we are also lacking quality depth. Behind Gurode, there is nobody with experience. I'm fairly satisfied with the rest of the OL and the depth there.

I'd also be lying if I said I wasn't worried about our running game. Julius Jones has had his ups and downs. His career has been a roller coaster ride. In all fairness, the line he played behind was not very good. They were a better pass protecting line and Bledsoe won't give them much credit for that. So that goes to show how bad they were. We're lacking that go to guy at RB, but the committee makes up for some of the deficiencies.

Our starting receivers are getting older, but it shouldn't affect us next season. We have some nice young players begging for a chance to show what they got.

I'm also worried about the cohesiveness of the team. A lot of our players, especially starters will only be in the 2nd or 3rd year of playing with each other. The turnover rate was dramatic through the Parcells era, but now many of the peices seem to be in place. This year players should start to feel more comfortable playing with each other, but regardless, there's still a growing curve.

And one more thing... New coaching staff = Adjustment Year. No going around that. It's definately not rare for a new coach to succeed a previous coaching staff, but the challenge is there. At least this time, we're overhauling the defense. Parcells change to the 3-4 was a big time move. At least we finally have the right personel for the scheme.

D-Unit
05-09-2007, 02:20 AM
I still don't understand why people think that adding another in the box safety is going to help the Redskins' pass defense.
Then you must misunderstand each of their capabilities in pass support. Landry and Taylor are both complete packages. Don't be mislead about their coverage skills because of their excellent tackling skills. We're not talking Roy Williams here.

Sniper
05-09-2007, 03:26 AM
The only team I think from the NFL East that will get to the playoffs is Dallas.
NYG lost Tiki Barber which meant it lost all of its offensive firepower.
McNabb will once again get injured.
Washington wont get to the playoffs this year but will be better.

Funny, I don't recall making the playoffs with McNabb as the QB last year. What makes Dallas so great? Their overhyped QB who went 1-4 down the stretch? Their aging WR corps led by T.O's 15 drops? Philly will win the division, 5-1 or 6-0 in the division, new season, same story

skinzzfan25
05-09-2007, 04:42 AM
Then you must misunderstand each of their capabilities in pass support. Landry and Taylor are both complete packages. Don't be mislead about their coverage skills because of their excellent tackling skills. We're not talking Roy Williams here.

Exactly, name a time you've seen Landry get beat deep at LSU.

D-Unit
05-09-2007, 04:46 AM
Funny, I don't recall making the playoffs with McNabb as the QB last year. What makes Dallas so great? Their overhyped QB who went 1-4 down the stretch? Their aging WR corps led by T.O's 15 drops? Philly will win the division, 5-1 or 6-0 in the division, new season, same story
The depth of your insight is truly astonishing! Wow, way to contribute to this thread.

Dallas isn't great, but no other team in the league besides the Colts can honestly say that.

Overhyped QB? Geez, who would've thought with the amount of bashing he gets? 1-4 down the stretch? Suuure, let's blame it all on Romo! Dallas got blown out by the Saints but let's throw out the fact that Sean Payton had no idea how to attack us, right? Riiiiiiiight.... Beating ATL 38-28 in their home is not something you want to talk about, so I'll move on... Philly handed us a loss and we'll take it fair and square... Oh, oh! He lost a game!!! It must mean a Tony Romo MELTDOOOOWN!!! Detroit beat us 39-31. Damn that Romo for only helping the offense to score 31 points! What a piss poor excuse for a QB.... OVER-RATED! Oh and let's not forget the 21-20 loss caused by his bobbled snap... Freakin Seattle D truly exploited him for all he's worth. Damnit, Romo is now fully exposed to the rest of the NFL... I can just see DC's across the league now... scheming against his kick holding weakness. Defensive Coordinators can now sleep at night.

Oh oh... an aging WR corps! Is that the best you got? Weak sauce. Did any of these playoff teams last year have anything above an average WR corp? NE, NYJ, BAL, SAN, KC, PHI, NYG, CHI, NOR, SEA? The WR position is so overrated. Besides, TO had 2 offseason surgeries on that hand. Damn him for not catching balls with his broken hand!

Philly can continue to win the division. It hasn't helped them win any Superbowls, so who gives a rip?

D-Unit
05-09-2007, 04:49 AM
Exactly, name a time you've seen Landry get beat deep at LSU.
Before you get ahead of yourself, Scott may have something to say about that...

"Lacks a burst to recover when beat..."
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/s/laronlandry.html

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 07:44 AM
I can't see the Giants going from the best running game to the worst just because of Tiki Barber. Your RB is only half of the equation when it comes to the running game. Tiki wasn't really anything but mediocre until Coughlin got here. Our running game will be fine. Our O-line is extremely underrated. Better than the Skins in my opinion. We just don't have big name guys with price tags so people assume it isn't that great. We also have some of the best downfield blockers when it comes to WRs in the game. Thank you Hines Ward for teaching Plax this aspect of the game!

Sniper
05-09-2007, 07:52 AM
The depth of your insight is truly astonishing! Wow, way to contribute to this thread.

Dallas isn't great, but no other team in the league besides the Colts can honestly say that.

Overhyped QB? Geez, who would've thought with the amount of bashing he gets? 1-4 down the stretch? Suuure, let's blame it all on Romo! Dallas got blown out by the Saints but let's throw out the fact that Sean Payton had no idea how to attack us, right? Riiiiiiiight.... Beating ATL 38-28 in their home is not something you want to talk about, so I'll move on... Philly handed us a loss and we'll take it fair and square... Oh, oh! He lost a game!!! It must mean a Tony Romo MELTDOOOOWN!!! Detroit beat us 39-31. Damn that Romo for only helping the offense to score 31 points! What a piss poor excuse for a QB.... OVER-RATED! Oh and let's not forget the 21-20 loss caused by his bobbled snap... Freakin Seattle D truly exploited him for all he's worth. Damnit, Romo is now fully exposed to the rest of the NFL... I can just see DC's across the league now... scheming against his kick holding weakness. Defensive Coordinators can now sleep at night.

Oh oh... an aging WR corps! Is that the best you got? Weak sauce. Did any of these playoff teams last year have anything above an average WR corp? NE, NYJ, BAL, SAN, KC, PHI, NYG, CHI, NOR, SEA? The WR position is so overrated. Besides, TO had 2 offseason surgeries on that hand. Damn him for not catching balls with his broken hand!

Philly can continue to win the division. It hasn't helped them win any Superbowls, so who gives a rip?

It's odd. Everyone was so willing to give Romo all the credit for the Cowboys turnaround, yet when they lose it's not his fault? Okkkkkkkk then. McNabb would love to have that luck. I just fail to see why the Cowboys are being made out to be so good. They have little running game, a QB who, yes, is overrated. You have NO pass defense after Newman, Roy Williams is a joke for a safety. Yes yes we know he can hit like a truck.

New Orleans game....Your boy Tony couldn't beat up on one of the worst secondaries in the league? Impressive. Atlanta? You serious? Atlanta is terrible, the Eagles third stringers beat them. Philly swept Dallas, which is always nice;) Imagine that, Romo had to play against a half decent secondary and submitted this Pro Bowl caliber line 14-29, 142 yards, 1 TD, 2 picks poof! We're not talking about enshrining him in the Ring of Fame anymore! The Lions is so damn laughable I'm not even gonna address that. Seahawks game, well, he choked. You know damn well if McNabb would have pulled that stunt Cowboys fans would be all over him. Never knew it was so tough holding a ball. Sorry if I don't buy into the Romo hype after he throws 5 td's vs. the Bucs (I'm aware the Bucs beat the Eagles...fluke)

etk
05-09-2007, 08:09 AM
Eli hasnt been terrible but he hasnt become Peyton yet. But I do think McNabb will get hurt and while it was good that PHI took a QB, I dont think Kolb was the right one to pick

Kolb was a great pick, he fits perfectly.

Paul
05-09-2007, 08:24 AM
It's odd. Everyone was so willing to give Romo all the credit for the Cowboys turnaround, yet when they lose it's not his fault? Okkkkkkkk then. McNabb would love to have that luck. I just fail to see why the Cowboys are being made out to be so good. They have little running game, a QB who, yes, is overrated. You have NO pass defense after Newman, Roy Williams is a joke for a safety. Yes yes we know he can hit like a truck.

New Orleans game....Your boy Tony couldn't beat up on one of the worst secondaries in the league? Impressive. Atlanta? You serious? Atlanta is terrible, the Eagles third stringers beat them. Philly swept Dallas, which is always nice;) Imagine that, Romo had to play against a half decent secondary and submitted this Pro Bowl caliber line 14-29, 142 yards, 1 TD, 2 picks poof! We're not talking about enshrining him in the Ring of Fame anymore! The Lions is so damn laughable I'm not even gonna address that. Seahawks game, well, he choked. You know damn well if McNabb would have pulled that stunt Cowboys fans would be all over him. Never knew it was so tough holding a ball. Sorry if I don't buy into the Romo hype after he throws 5 td's vs. the Bucs (I'm aware the Bucs beat the Eagles...fluke)

I'm gonna put your homerism aside for second, and let other deal with that.

Let's talk about the text I bolded on your comment. Now have you ever wondered how the Cowboys go into FG position in the first place? Romo led us 70 yards in the final minutes of the 4th quarter, in the playoffs, to put us in the perfect position to win. Now he botched the snap, no ifs, and or buts about it, but for a rookie QB in his first time the playoffs, leading the team down the field to give us a opportunity to win like that is very encouraging.

Now did he struggle in the tailend of the season, yes of course. When your the toast of the NFL after a few great games, others teams are going to notice, and you are not going to take them by surprise anymore. But even his struggles, Cowboy fans are not going to jump all over him and call for his head. We, more the anybody else, know what he can do, we know what he is capable of.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 08:26 AM
Well, Eli hasnt had a terrible season yet. in fact he has had exactly the same (solid) number of TDs/INTs 2 years in a row. even with major injuries on offense last year.


I think the chances of Eli being less then a decent starter are slim, while the chances of Mcnabb getting injured yet again, are high.

Holy crap! A coherent, well-reasoned post from GRF. I'm shocked...

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 08:31 AM
I honestly don't think I can handle the sheer bulk of homerism and overall misguided analysis in this thread. I read the first page and got a headache.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 08:35 AM
I honestly don't think I can handle the sheer bulk of homerism and overall misguided analysis in this thread. I read the first page and got a headache.
Ouch man, Ouch.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 08:37 AM
This wasn't directed at anyone specifically, but there are some painfully horrible posts there. Too many to take my time reading.

bored of education
05-09-2007, 08:40 AM
I'd take Tony Romo over McNabb. Who is McNabb piping? I think Romo is the old plummer in the Carrie Underwood household. I'm + repping Romo on that alone.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 08:44 AM
I'd take Tony Romo over McNabb. Who is McNabb piping? I think Romo is the old plummer in the Carrie Underwood household. I'm + repping Romo on that alone.

Screw that. I'll take Eli's future wife over Underwood anyday.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 08:47 AM
Screw that. I'll take Eli's future wife over Underwood anyday.
It's useless without pics.

....I'm too lazy. Anybody?

bored of education
05-09-2007, 08:48 AM
Yeah I need pics?????????????????????????????????

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 08:50 AM
http://www.alumni.olemiss.edu/photos/NYC%20-%20new/NYC%20-%20new-Images/4.jpg

Hell I'd even take our 3rd string QB's wife over Underwood.

http://www.giants.com/uploads/assets/news/07_0508_th.jpg

Number 10
05-09-2007, 08:52 AM
This wasn't directed at anyone specifically, but there are some painfully horrible posts there. Too many to take my time reading.

It hasn't gotten too bad yet.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:01 AM
I didn't read pages 2-4 of the thread. I fear for my IQ if I do.

scottyboy
05-09-2007, 09:08 AM
we all know this is the most, well dicussed division with really the most "exciting" fans. NFC East discussions can literally go on for months, and possibly years.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:20 AM
I think the NFC East has the most "excitable" fans, rather than the most exciting fans. I will say that the longstanding division rivalries between all 4 teams makes for a very heated discussion. Unfortunately, it is next to impossible to have a reasonable conversation about it.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 09:23 AM
I didn't read pages 2-4 of the thread. I fear for my IQ if I do.
Well instead of insulting everyone in general, why don't you point out specific instances where people were wrong. It's easy to accuse others of being homers, especailly when they go agianst your team. Give us your rankings and stay objective.

scottyboy
05-09-2007, 09:30 AM
bsaza- your right, excitable fits better. its hard because when discussing division rivals, its extremly hard to not show you inner homerism and you do tend to lose respect for other posters by putting- "this team sucks, and their QB is awful". its a good thing TNewfan41 is gone too...

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 09:34 AM
Wow. I log off like 3 minutes before this thread was created and we're already at 6 pages. Well, I read the analysis and skipped over most of the commentary, I'll just go straight to some additional points Id like to add to what Number 10 said. I think what he said was a fair assessment in all honesty. Don't really disagree with any of it.

First and foremost, let me copy and paste a response I made in another thread of why I feel that Philly will win the division.

Philly is winning the East, even without McNabb.

Whats lost in all the NFC East discussions is how schematically, Philadelphia has a HUGE advantage over the rest of the teams in our division.

The Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, and Redskins (in all likelihood) will be employing defenses that are based heavily on blitzing.

Thats great and all, but let's look at the offenses that each team runs.

Dallas: Ernhardt/Perkins vertical pass game
NYG: Air Coryell vertical pass game
Washington: Air Coryell verticall pass game
Philly: WCO


Who has the schematic advantage? Philly does. Philly's WCO is taylor made to take on the blitzing nature of all our defenses. Our vertical pass games do not.

Also, when looking at how much pressure each defense plans on generating, its important to look at the olines.

Who has the best oline? Easily Philadelphia. Another advantage.


What about dlines?

Id say NYG and Philly are 1 and 2 in this aspect. So Philly is strong on both lines, has a scheme that can expose weaknesses in all our defenses, and is easily the best coached team of the group.

Sounds like the odds are in their favor to me.

Ok, having that said, let's break down each team.


Philadelphia:


-Best offensive line. Reid runs a great scheme thats qb friendly (has had continued success over many years even without McNabb in the lineup). Westbrook has emerged as the best RB in this division. And most importantly, I think giving playcalling responsibilitys to the OC has helped dramatically. There is a much stronger commitment to the run game now. Plus, with Tony Hunt they finally have a bruiser who can "close" games for them.

-Defense could use improvement. I don't have too much faith in Spikes, Trotter is getting older. I like Stewart Bradley, I wouldve liked him more in a 3-4, but oh well. Their dline should be improved this year. Adding Abriamiri should help, but more importantly, they need to get stronger at the point of attack.

The issue with this defense is the aggressive nature of it. Its constant blitzing makes it difficult to stop the run bc linebackers are overshooting their gaps. Trotter made it tolerable, but his tires are running thin now. The dline has to improve and the OLBs have to be more gap sound. Its not easy in this scheme, so a solid TC is needed.


Dallas:

-All around balanced team. They look great on paper. But the issues could be alot deeper than we think. TO, and Glenn are both old. The chances for injury are higher with each year. Im not a big fan of Jones, but Barber is a stud. I think he should get majority carries this year. Fasano should improve this year, and I think if they can make a bigger commitment to hitting the TE, this offense will be even better this upcoming year barring injuries to their aging WRs. I felt when analyzing Romo, that he wasn't feeding Witten the ball enough. Too many times I saw Witten open but rather than hitting him for 10/15 yards, Romo would force something downfield to Owens. Witten needs to be the centerpiece of this 2 TE base. It will increase the production of the offense.

Romo's development is integral as well. Defenses employed strategies to keep him in the pocket and his played dipped when that strategy was employed. He has to improve in the pocket. I think he will, he suffered a dip at the end of the year, but thats common with first year starters. One thing to note though, this could be important. I remember hearing an interview with him on the Dan Patrick Show espn radio. They asked him what he'll miss the most about Bill Parcells. He said that BP would get on every WRs ass for half assing routes, dropping balls not being focused etc. He said it made his job alot easier, because he just had to go out there and throw it, and let BP be the vocal leader of the group. Well, BP is gone now, and in comes Wade Phillips, who isn't exactly a great leader of men. The owness is on Romo now, can he handle the personalities of TO and Glenn? Only time will tell.

The defense will be improved in terms of pass rush. However, they will take a dip in rush defense compared to last year and theyll give up more big plays compared to last year. Run defense will decrease because of the blitzing nature, and benching Bradie James.

Blitzing is great and all but what I think everyone forgets is how dominant SD's line was. Dallas tried blitzing last year. The 2 games they did that I saw (@ Philly and Detroit), they wound up giving up more yards and points than any other game. Their secondary is too vulnerable and their dline isn't occupying blockers the way it should. Ive said before, and Ill say it a million times over. This defense will not improve simply with a scheme change. Training camp and the development of the young players, in particular the DEs, will develop the fate of this defense. Simply blitzing more is not gonna solve the problems unless the basics are perfected in TC.

Let's not forget that this team was blessed with very few injuries this past year. Whats the chances that it happens 2 years in a row? Not likely in the NFL. Theyre not deep in some positions, so their lack of depth could be a big factor this upcoming year.



Ok, Im gonna have lunch, then discuss the Giants and Redskins.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 09:35 AM
bsaza- your right, excitable fits better. its hard because when discussing division rivals, its extremly hard to not show you inner homerism and you do tend to lose respect for other posters by putting- "this team sucks, and their QB is awful". its a good thing TNewfan41 is gone too...
Alright, i'm just going to say it how it is

Giants 16-0
Eagles 0-12-4
Cowboys 0-12-4
Redskins 0-12-4

(/sarcasm)

I was being completely objective before. I don't know what bsaza is going off about.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:44 AM
I think the NFC East has the most "excitable" fans, rather than the most exciting fans. I will say that the longstanding division rivalries between all 4 teams makes for a very heated discussion. Unfortunately, it is next to impossible to have a reasonable conversation about it.

The NFC East also has the most tradition. I'd have to think that out of all the divisions in football the NFC East has the most Super Bowls titles between it. Maybe the Eagles can help out one day and add to that number.

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 09:47 AM
The NFC East also has the most tradition. I'd have to think that out of all the divisions in football the NFC East has the most Super Bowls titles between it. Maybe the Eagles can help out one day and add to that number.

Lets pray that day never happens :p

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 09:47 AM
The NFC East also has the most tradition. I'd have to think that out of all the divisions in football the NFC East has the most Super Bowls titles between it. Maybe the Eagles can help out one day and add to that number.
There's no way you can win in this sort of situation. Unless you rank your team 4rth in every category, you'll be called a homer.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:49 AM
I wouldn't say the Eagles hands down have the best O-line anymore. Runyan and Thomas are getting older and aren't the same players they were when the Eagles reached the Super Bowl and all those NFC Championships. Andrews is a monster. And the other two guys are decent now with promise. I know everyone is huge on Justice. But he dropped for a reason. Some of it character. He is no lock to be a stud when he plays full time. Cowboys thought they had a good RT too when they took Jacob Rogers out of USC.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:49 AM
Well, Jug, you can thank the Eagles for all the success! haha

Giants have 2, Cowboys 5, Redskins 3. Can any other division really stack up?

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:51 AM
Well, Jug, you can thank the Eagles for all the success! haha

Giants have 2, Cowboys 5, Redskins 3. Can any other division really stack up?

Off the top of my head no.

The AFC East I guess is close. Jets have 1, Pats 3, and Dolphins have 2 right? Phins may have three can't remember.

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 09:52 AM
I wouldn't say the Eagles hands down have the best O-line anymore. Runyan and Thomas are getting older and aren't the same players they were when the Eagles reached the Super Bowl and all those NFC Championships. Andrews is a monster. And the other two guys are decent now with promise. I know everyone is huge on Justice. But he dropped for a reason. Some of it character. He is no lock to be a stud when he plays full time. Cowboys thought they had a good RT too when they took Jacob Rogers out of USC.

He looked real impressive in PS last year. I think at the very least, he adds valuable depth to the Tackle positions in case one of the 2 go down. And while the names aren't that famous, I think they play with great cohesion. Theyre a great run blocking line, and their pass protection is fine in their WCO.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:53 AM
He looked real impressive in PS last year. I think at the very least, he adds valuable depth to the Tackle positions in case one of the 2 go down. And while the names aren't that famous, I think they play with great cohesion. Theyre a great run blocking line, and their pass protection is fine in their WCO.

They are good but I wouldn't say they are hands down the elite Oline unit of the NFC East anymore like the way they used to be. And I don't really think that O-line fits the skills of Westbrook. If Westbrook ran behind our O-line I think he would actually perform better. We have guys that can get down the field and to the outside better.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:53 AM
The Eagles aren't a lock for the best OLine, but they had the best line last year, and they haven't lost anyone from that group. They're the only team in the division returning all 5 players. There is also pretty good depth there. There is a chance that the OT's could decline, but I don't see the wheels coming off this season. Remember, Andrews can play RT, Heremens can play LT, LG, RG, and RT, and Scott Young and Max Jean Giles are there as depth. The only question marks on the Eagles Oline is the age of their OT's. Given the Eagles' willingness to cut loose players that are over 30 and the overall success of their FA moves for the last 8 years, are you really willing to bet against both Thomas and Runyan falling apart this season?

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 09:54 AM
I think the NFC East and AFC North are probably the 2 most storied divisions in the NFL.

NFC North sort of. Its the Packers, Bears, and the rest though. Vikings/Lions aren't really any legit sort of "rival". I think the East and AFC North are the 2 divisions where all 4 teams are genuine rivals of each other. At a national level at least. Of course diehard fans of any division hate everyone in their division, but you get what Im saying.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 09:54 AM
I wouldn't say the Eagles hands down have the best O-line anymore. Runyan and Thomas are getting older and aren't the same players they were when the Eagles reached the Super Bowl and all those NFC Championships. Andrews is a monster. And the other two guys are decent now with promise. I know everyone is huge on Justice. But he dropped for a reason. Some of it character. He is no lock to be a stud when he plays full time. Cowboys thought they had a good RT too when they took Jacob Rogers out of USC.
These threads aren't fun when everybody is objective. Where's GRF?

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:55 AM
They are good but I wouldn't say they are hands down the elite Oline unit of the NFC East anymore like the way they used to be.

Jug, you're making a projection based on the age of the OT's. If there was really an issue with the OLine, don't you think the Eagles would have drafted at least 2 OT's in this draft? They're preparing for Runyan and Thomas to leave, but if they had any thought that either was done, they'd already be out.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:56 AM
Wasn't Scott Young awful when he came in last year?

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:56 AM
I think the NFC East and AFC North are probably the 2 most storied divisions in the NFL.

NFC North sort of. Its the Packers, Bears, and the rest though. Vikings/Lions aren't really any legit sort of "rival". I think the East and AFC North are the 2 divisions where all 4 teams are genuine rivals of each other. At a national level at least. Of course diehard fans of any division hate everyone in their division, but you get what Im saying.

The AFC East has a lot of old school ties. You really can't discount that.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 09:57 AM
Wasn't Scott Young awful when he came in last year?

Scott Young had 2 false start penalties in the Superdome in the playoffs when he came in to replace an injured Andrews. Besides that, he was very solid. Very few OG's can step into that environment and succeed. The fact that he had to replace the best RG in the game made his weaknesses stand out that much more.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:58 AM
Jug, you're making a projection based on the age of the OT's. If there was really an issue with the OLine, don't you think the Eagles would have drafted at least 2 OT's in this draft? They're preparing for Runyan and Thomas to leave, but if they had any thought that either was done, they'd already be out.

I don't think they are done but they certainly aren't the players they used to be. Haven't Eagles fans been trying to get rid of Thomas?

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 09:59 AM
Scott Young had 2 false start penalties in the Superdome in the playoffs when he came in to replace an injured Andrews. Besides that, he was very solid. Very few OG's can step into that environment and succeed. The fact that he had to replace the best RG in the game made his weaknesses stand out that much more.

Ok I watched that game with Eagles fans. Yes I have friends that like the Eagles, I am ashamed. I just remember them flipping out on Young. I'm not sure Andrews is the best RG in the game. Maybe the largest.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 10:00 AM
Osi Umenyiora recent quote:

"I, Chief Osi Umenyiora, have officially declared myself to be the best defensive end in the NFL. To prove that fact, I will have one of the best seasons ever by a defensive end. If not, I will jump off the George Washington Bridge. I do not want to jump off the George Washington Bridge because it would be detrimental to my health. Thanks for listening."

He'll make offensive lines look bad.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 10:01 AM
I don't think they are done but they certainly aren't the players they used to be. Haven't Eagles fans been trying to get rid of Thomas?

Eagles fans are usually surprised when the team lets FA's go in their supposed primes. They always try to second guess the front office. Given Thomas's age and past health issues, they wanted to move him now before he declined to get value. If I thought Justice could do the job just as well, I would move Thomas. However, I cannot stress the importance of continuity enough. I'd much rather have the depth and experience on the team already.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Ok I watched that game with Eagles fans. Yes I have friends that like the Eagles, I am ashamed. I just remember them flipping out on Young. I'm not sure Andrews is the best RG in the game. Maybe the largest.

I am quite sure that Andrews is the best RG in the game right now. I don't know any other RG who is as dominant in every facet of blocking as he is.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 10:05 AM
I am quite sure that Andrews is the best RG in the game right now. I don't know any other RG who is as dominant in every facet of blocking as he is.

The guy can't move well. He is good because he is so damn big. When you are that big on the inside and have people playing on both side of you, you are gonna be good. I'm not sure if he would be as effective at RT as everyone thinks. RG is arbitrary. If you put some of the guys who play LG at RG he easily wouldn't be the best.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 10:10 AM
I am quite sure that Andrews is the best RG in the game right now. I don't know any other RG who is as dominant in every facet of blocking as he is.
He made the probowl. Enough said. However, an offensive line is made up of 5 guys.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 10:15 AM
There's no way you can win in this sort of situation. Unless you rank your team 4rth in every category, you'll be called a homer.

I haven't been called a homer...look at my rankings.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 10:16 AM
For a man of his size, Andrews is amazingly athletic. Watch some game film on him from 2006. You'll see the extent of his overall body of work. His size is part of his overall success, but his agility, acceleration, and top end speed are freakish.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 10:17 AM
He made the probowl. Enough said. However, an offensive line is made up of 5 guys.

Andrews is the best offensive linemen on the Eagles line. He was also a first team All Pro, which is an even higher honor. If you read anything about the Eagles offensive line, all of the writers and scouts are high on him. He is an incredible talent.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 10:18 AM
For a man of his size, Andrews is amazingly athletic. Watch some game film on him from 2006. You'll see the extent of his overall body of work. His size is part of his overall success, but his agility, acceleration, and top end speed are freakish.

I agree....I remember watching him in his first preseason game as a rookie, there is not a lineman in the game that gets the initial punch that Andrews does and his first two steps are as quick as any guard in the league as well. Does he struggle at the second level with mobility? Yes, but that isn't as important with in his role.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 10:19 AM
I agree....I remember watching him in his first preseason game as a rookie, there is not a lineman in the game that gets the initial punch that Andrews does and his first two steps are as quick as any guard in the league as well. Does he struggle at the second level with mobility? Yes, but that isn't as important with in his role.

With a running back like Westbrook I think mobility at the second level would be somthing you would covet in a guard.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 10:25 AM
With a running back like Westbrook I think mobility at the second level would be somthing you would covet in a guard.

You can hide those weaknesses if it is just one guard that does not have top notch mobility on the second level.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 10:36 AM
Andrews is the best pull guard in the league, and he has the best first step and probably the best top speed. How could that really affect his overall second level blocking ability? If you recall his rookie season (when he was injured when Strahan rolled Westbrook up on his leg), Andrews was 8 yard upfield on an inside run when that freak accident occurred. I don't think there is a problem with his second level blocking. If it's the weak point in his game, he's at least average at it. Given his other skills, I'll accept it as his primary area to improve on. Let's not forget that he's also only 24-25.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 11:56 AM
I can't believe this thread is already dying. Unbelievable!

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 12:05 PM
I can't believe this thread is already dying. Unbelievable!
That's what happens when everyone is objective. We need something to stir up controversy, otherwise it will be as exciting as Marc Bulger.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:09 PM
I think the lack of Redskins and Cowboys fans is the key. Giants and Eagles fans on this site are generally too rational to have engaging conversations for long periods of time. There's too much grudging respect.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:10 PM
I wanna kick mama McNabb in her FUPA. (I hope that gets things going).

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 12:10 PM
I think the lack of Redskins and Cowboys fans is the key. Giants and Eagles fans on this site are generally too rational to have engaging conversations for long periods of time. There's too much grudging respect.
Especially Giant fans. :)

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:11 PM
I wanna kick mama McNabb in her FUPA. (I hope that gets things going).

You mean the fleshy fun bridge? You monster!!!

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:12 PM
Well, I'm the only consistent posting Eagles fan, though Creek is now back. I would much prefer to have the numbers of Giants fans. Kind of sucks.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:13 PM
You mean the fleshy fun bridge? You monster!!!

I'm not sure what fleshy fun bridge is but FUPA is Fat Upper P**** Area.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm not sure what fleshy fun bridge is but FUPA is Fat Upper P**** Area.

I was referring to the 'taint', but I catch your drift now. Even so, YOU MONSTER!!!!

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm not sure what fleshy fun bridge is but FUPA is Fat Upper P**** Area.
Thanks for the mental image.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:17 PM
Even generally skinny girls get FUPA sometimes. They just get a little puffy in the mound above the funhole.

Now that I have brought this great thread completely off topic.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:19 PM
I was referring to the 'taint', but I catch your drift now. Even so, YOU MONSTER!!!!

Also I refer to to the taint as the grundel. It is always funny to hear different peoples' names for these things.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:19 PM
Ah, I call that the GUNT.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:20 PM
Also I refer to to the taint as the grundel. It is always funny to hear different peoples' names for these things.

On "Jackass", they call it the 'gootch'. haha

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:21 PM
Charlie Weis would have the ultimate FUPA if he was a woman.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:23 PM
Who says he doesn't have a FUPA?

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Who says he doesn't have a FUPA?

His son, who it is pretty clear has the same genes as Charlie because he seems to going down the same path as far as physique.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:26 PM
Ah, the father-son FUPA. Imagine it!

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 12:43 PM
Over / Under

Eli Manning 24 TDs
Brandon Jacobs 1200 Yards
Osi Umenyiora 13 Sacks
Jeremy Shockey 900 Yards
Michael Strahan 10 Sacks
Mathias Kiwanuka 100 Tackles

Pick over or under.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:48 PM
Manning: Over
Jacobs: Push
Osi: Under
Shockey: Just under
Strahan: Just over
Kiwanuka: Way under

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:52 PM
Manning: Over
Jacobs: Over
Osi: Push
Shockey: Under
Strahan: Under approaching Push
Kiwanuka: Under

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 12:53 PM
Manning: Over
Jacobs: Push
Osi: Under
Shockey: Just under
Strahan: Just over
Kiwanuka: Way under

Osi quote (I posted it, but don't know if you saw it):

I, Chief Osi Umenyiora, have officially declared myself to be the best defensive end in the NFL. To prove that fact, I will have one of the best seasons ever by a defensive end. If not, I will jump off the George Washington Bridge. I do not want to jump off the George Washington Bridge because it would be detrimental to my health. Thanks for listening."

Less than 13 sacks isn't going to cut it.

Kiwanuka is going to be a LB now, I think he'll get 100.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 12:56 PM
Kiwi is the first linebacker off the field in nickel packages. Unless he sees some serious time at DE when the pull the LB off the field I don't think he touches 100.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 12:57 PM
Kiwi will be a "package" player and will not be a full timer right away. He'll play some at LB and some at DE. I don't think he'll be around for 100 tackles. I would put the over/under at 80.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 01:00 PM
Kiwi will be a "package" player and will not be a full timer right away. He'll play some at LB and some at DE. I don't think he'll be around for 100 tackles. I would put the over/under at 80.

He's a full time Linebacker. In base formations with three LBs on the field, he will always be a Linebacker.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:01 PM
Fair enough. Even so, I don't think he will have the overall experience or technique to notch 100 tackles. Over/under 80 is much easier to talk about.

Paul
05-09-2007, 01:03 PM
First off Kiwanuka converting to OLB is a surprise to me, I did not know that. But 100 tackles for a hybrid is a bit much. I mean guys like Merriman and Ware didn't record there 100th career tackle until the tailend of the 2nd season. Not really sure how you guys are gonna use Kiwanuka, but did he play any LB last year?

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 01:03 PM
I think Kiwi will have a big year. He made plays last year and he was only a rookie. I'm expecting great things from both him and Osi this year.

Cowboys LB situation, Are Spencer and Carpenter going to start?

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:05 PM
The Cowboys have a lot of depth, and they're going to be rotating guys in and out a lot to get matchups. I don't think starting necessarily means a lack of PT.

Paul
05-09-2007, 01:06 PM
Bobby will have to compete against Bradie James, and Spencer will go compete Ellis. But I hope both of the young guys get the starting spot.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 01:09 PM
First off Kiwanuka converting to OLB is a surprise to me, I did not know that. But 100 tackles for a hybrid is a bit much. I mean guys like Merriman and Ware didn't record there 100th career tackle until the tailend of the 2nd season. Not really sure how you guys are gonna use Kiwanuka, but did he play any LB last year?

Outside Linebackers in the 3-4 won't make as many tackles as a OLB in a 4-3. I wouldn't really call Kiwi a hybrid either. He is in a sense that he has played DE all his life. But for now he is a Linebacker. Thats it. The plan isn't to use him at DE much at all unless because of injury. I think 80 tackles is more realistic with maybe 6 or 7 sacks and a couple picks.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 01:13 PM
Outside Linebackers in the 3-4 won't make as many tackles as a OLB in a 4-3. I wouldn't really call Kiwi a hybrid either. He is in a sense that he has played DE all his life. But for now he is a Linebacker. Thats it. The plan isn't to use him at DE much at all unless because of injury. I think 80 tackles is more realistic with maybe 6 or 7 sacks and a couple picks.
Not giving Kiwi enough credit here. As a DE and non-starter last year he racked up 53 tackles, 4 Sacks, 2 INTs. I think he can easily, easily double those stats as a LB. He gets to play in open space where he can use his athleticism to make plays + he will get more playing time.

Paul
05-09-2007, 01:15 PM
Outside Linebackers in the 3-4 won't make as many tackles as a OLB in a 4-3. I wouldn't really call Kiwi a hybrid either. He is in a sense that he has played DE all his life. But for now he is a Linebacker. Thats it. The plan isn't to use him at DE much at all unless because of injury. I think 80 tackles is more realistic with maybe 6 or 7 sacks and a couple picks.

Understood, its just whenever I think of Kiwanuka, I think 6-5 265 DE of BC.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 01:15 PM
Not giving Kiwi enough credit here. As a DE and non-starter last year he racked up 53 tackles, 4 Sacks, 2 INTs. I think he can easily, easily double those stats as a LB. He gets to play in open space where he can use his athleticism to make plays + he will get more playing time.

Kiwi started 9 games out of 16.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Understood, its just whenever I think of Kiwanuka, I think 6-5 265 DE of BC.

Now think of 6-5 265 pound strongside linebacker for the NY Giants.

Paul
05-09-2007, 01:18 PM
Now think of 6-5 265 pound strongside linebacker for the NY Giants.

I rather not.

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 01:20 PM
Kiwi started 9 games out of 16.
Ok. If you do the ratio, he'd get 94 Tackles at that rate.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:27 PM
1. Dallas 13-3
2. Philly 9-7
3. Redskins 7-9
4. Giants 6-10

You guys really don't notice how good the Cowboys are this year. We don't have 1 hole in the starting line-up.

People are really overrating the Eagles. McNabb won't be healthy for week 1, and if he does play, he won't be close to 100%. They have no WR's, and no LB's. Trotter is all hype, his play is nothing now in this point of his career.

niel89
05-09-2007, 01:27 PM
1. Dallas 13-3
2. Philly 9-7
3. Redskins 7-9
4. Giants 6-10

You guys really don't notice how good the Cowboys are this year. We don't have 1 hole in the starting line-up.

you dont have any holes in the run game either

Paul
05-09-2007, 01:29 PM
Ahh I was awaiting the arrival of Tnew to this thread.

niel89
05-09-2007, 01:29 PM
Ahh I was awaiting the arrival of Tnew to this thread.

yeah me too. his massive homer-ness is funny

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:34 PM
Actually no it's not. Give me a whole in our starting line-up. People just assume I am being a homer, but it is true. I'll be waiting....

And our run game is nasty. Julius and Marion are fine, and with Davis at guard, we will be dominant. Rivera sucked ass last year, and Davis will be a top 3 guard in the NFL. And the chemistry will get better, and Flozall Adams will just get better like he did at the end of the year recovering from his ACL from 2 years ago.

I don't see how people aren't picking us to win the division. It is pretty easy IMO.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:37 PM
Is it possible for T-AchillesFan33 to be more of a homer? Yes, the Cowboys have potential, but there is complete coaching turnover. Jason Garrett is a wildcard as the OC. Wade Phillips is a great defensive mind, but he's the head coach. Davis is a decent OG, but that is no guarantee of a great running game. After all, an OLine is 5 guys.

Ewing
05-09-2007, 01:38 PM
1. Dallas 13-3
2. Philly 9-7
3. Redskins 7-9
4. Giants 6-10

You guys really don't notice how good the Cowboys are this year. We don't have 1 hole in the starting line-up.

People are really overrating the Eagles. McNabb won't be healthy for week 1, and if he does play, he won't be close to 100%. They have no WR's, and no LB's. Trotter is all hype, his play is nothing now in this point of his career.

How about your safeties? Roy Williams can't play the ball in the air, period. Don't even try to say he can.

As for the Eagles. They had no WR's for three years and made the NFC Championship all three of them.

Ewing
05-09-2007, 01:41 PM
Actually no it's not. Give me a whole in our starting line-up. People just assume I am being a homer, but it is true. I'll be waiting....

And our run game is nasty. Julius and Marion are fine, and with Davis at guard, we will be dominant. Rivera sucked ass last year, and Davis will be a top 3 guard in the NFL. And the chemistry will get better, and Flozall Adams will just get better like he did at the end of the year recovering from his ACL from 2 years ago.

I don't see how people aren't picking us to win the division. It is pretty easy IMO.

Davis a top three guard? That fat **** has no feet at all. Keep dreaming.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:41 PM
Exactly, and last year Gurode was a top 5 center, and Colombo was a waulity RT, and will only get better. And in the 2nd half of the season, Flozall Adams was dominant. The only player that isn't that great is kosiar, but he is average. Our o-line should be dominant.

All I am saying is, right now on paper, the Cowboys are the best team in the East. I don't think you can really question that. And as of right now, you have to go by paper, so it is easily the Cowboys right now.

Oh and as for the coaching staff, I think it will only make us better. Parcells held us back. Garrett and Wade are both agressive, that is what this team needs. Our offense and defense both have the players too be top 3 in the league. Parcells restricted us. You saw San Diego's defense last year, we should be just as good, if not better, because our secondary is better.

DI
05-09-2007, 01:42 PM
The NFC East is always one of the most hotly contested divisions in the NFL and it is way to early to be predicting who will win the division but I will say that, being a Giant fan, nobody really strikes fear into me in this division and that I feel confident as a Giant fan going into any game against a division rival that were going to come out victorious. I don't know if that's just me but nobody really strikes me as a dominant, no doubt about it Super Bowl Contender from the East or a division winner for that matter. One thing is for sure though and that is winning the division and predicting who wins the division sure as hell won't be easy.

Ewing
05-09-2007, 01:45 PM
Exactly, and last year Gurode was a top 5 center, and Colombo was a waulity RT, and will only get better. And in the 2nd half of the season, Flozall Adams was dominant. The only player that isn't that great is kosiar, but he is average. Our o-line should be dominant.

All I am saying is, right now on paper, the Cowboys are the best team in the East. I don't think you can really question that. And as of right now, you have to go by paper, so it is easily the Cowboys right now.

Oh and as for the coaching staff, I think it will only make us better. Parcells held us back. Garrett and Wade are both agressive, that is what this team needs. Our offense and defense both have the players too be top 3 in the league. Parcells restricted us. You saw San Diego's defense last year, we should be just as good, if not better, because our secondary is better.

Gurode wasn't even close to being a top three center. The offensive line is average at best. The Cowboys aren't the best team on paper because of that o-line. The Eagles are.

T.O. is going to go crazy on the coaching staff and team now that he doesn't have a hardass like Parcells keeping him in his place. Your offensive top three? Keep dreaming. San Diego's front seven last year was light years ahead of yours.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:45 PM
Davis at guard is a freakin beast. I pity all of you who think he was a bad FA signing. He will be dominant. And actually, he has great athletiscism and feet for his size. And now he is a right guard, not a left tackle. He should be dominant.

And as for Roy Williams, he sucked in the 2nd half because WE HAD NO PASS RUSH. Now we will have one of the best pass rushes in the NFL with the addition of Spencer and Wade Phillips. Roy will return to form.

San Diego's front 7 was better because they had Wade Phillips. Wade Phillips is a 3-4 genius. We have him now. hahahahahaha........

Ewing
05-09-2007, 01:47 PM
Davis at guard is a freakin beast. I pity all of you who think he was a bad FA signing. He will be dominant. And actually, he has great athletiscism and feet for his size. And now he is a right guard, not a left tackle. He should be dominant.

And as for Roy Williams, he sucked in the 2nd half because WE HAD NO PASS RUSH. Now we will have one of the best pass rushes in the NFL with the addition of Spencer and Wade Phillips. Roy will return to form.

Davis is a fatass who has never done anything in the NFL. He has no feet at all. Horrible FA signing.

He's always sucked in coverage. I'm not denying he's good at hitting people or good against the run but he's always been bad in pass coverage.

You honestly think San Diego's front seven was dominant because of Wade Phillips and not because of the best 3-4 OLB in the league with Merriman, not to mention the best NT in the league with Williams, possibly the best 3-4 MLB and 3-4 DE with Edwards and Castillo?

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:48 PM
Exactly, and last year Gurode was a top 5 center, and Colombo was a waulity RT, and will only get better. And in the 2nd half of the season, Flozall Adams was dominant. The only player that isn't that great is kosiar, but he is average. Our o-line should be dominant.

All I am saying is, right now on paper, the Cowboys are the best team in the East. I don't think you can really question that. And as of right now, you have to go by paper, so it is easily the Cowboys right now.

Oh and as for the coaching staff, I think it will only make us better. Parcells held us back. Garrett and Wade are both agressive, that is what this team needs. Our offense and defense both have the players too be top 3 in the league. Parcells restricted us. You saw San Diego's defense last year, we should be just as good, if not better, because our secondary is better.

Um, Colombo is over 30 and has never played up to his first round potential since he tore up his knee over 5 years ago. The fact that he played well in 2006 was a blessing. Even his playing well was not dominant in any way. Colombo is a servicable RT at best. Gurode is a very good center, you could argue that he's #5 overall, but he's not so good that he's not replacable. Adams is a very good run blocker, but due to injuries and age, he is not as agile and fast as he once was. He struggles with second level blocking and speed rushers. He is still capable, but he's not dominant. At his age, he's not going to get that much better that it will make a discernable difference. Kozier is probably underrated, but he's passable as a LG. The Cowboys have a good OLine, but it's not the best in the division. Arguably #2, fighting with the Redskins. That's not to say it's not a top 10 unit overall because it is, assuming the older guys stay healthy and don't regress, and Davis can actually remember how to block.

On paper, Dallas has a ton of talent, but much of that same talent was inconsistent for a lot of 2006. You can blame that on coaching, but there is also a coaching adjustment that needs to be made. New offensive scheme, new playcaller, new defensive playcalling, plus new players. There are some chemistry concerns there. The age of the roster should also be somewhat of a concern for you. Regardless, paper has never won a damn thing . Just ask the 1997-2007 Redskins.

Shiver
05-09-2007, 01:50 PM
San Diego's front 7 was better because they had Wade Phillips. Wade Phillips is a 3-4 genius. We have him now. hahahahahaha........

Wade Phillips was the DC in Atlanta, when we had the worst defense in football. So try again, in no way is he a genius. Anytime you have that much talent, you look smart.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 01:52 PM
Dallas fighting with Redskins for the #2 O-line? So everyone just assumes the Giants have the worse O-line. I love that. I hope your teams underestimate them as much as the fans are.

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 01:52 PM
Jeez, looks like this thread went straight to the pooper scooper.....

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:52 PM
Actually Colombo is 28. And he has been hurt, that is why he hasn't made any noise. And Davis is not a freakin blob. AS A GUARD he is a great signing. He will be in the pro-bowl.

And Ware is easily better than Merriman. Merriman is a freakin joke. All he does is run at the QB. He can't cover anything. Ware covers like a CB. Parcells held Ware back, that is why he doesn't look as good. Don't give the sack numbers, I don't care about that crap. Ware easily has more potential, and I think Wade Phillips will show that this season.

As far as talent goes, Cowboys easily lead that category.

Ewing
05-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Actually Colombo is 28. And he has been hurt, that is why he hasn't made any noise. And Davis is not a freakin blob. AS A GUARD he is a great signing. He will be in the pro-bowl.

And Ware is easily better than Merriman. Merriman is a freakin joke. All he does is run at the QB. He can't cover anything. Ware covers like a CB. Parcells held Ware back, that is why he doesn't look as good. Don't give the sack numbers, I don't care about that crap. Ware easily has more potential, and I think Wade Phillips will show that this season.

As far as talent goes, Cowboys easily lead that category.

Sorry, any further arguement goes out the window. You're a ****ing idiot.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Davis at guard is a freakin beast. I pity all of you who think he was a bad FA signing. He will be dominant. And actually, he has great athletiscism and feet for his size. And now he is a right guard, not a left tackle. He should be dominant.

And as for Roy Williams, he sucked in the 2nd half because WE HAD NO PASS RUSH. Now we will have one of the best pass rushes in the NFL with the addition of Spencer and Wade Phillips. Roy will return to form.

San Diego's front 7 was better because they had Wade Phillips. Wade Phillips is a 3-4 genius. We have him now. hahahahahaha........

Davis at guard is a pretty good option, but he's not dominant. He didn't dominate when he played RG in Arizona, so why the change now? Regardless, most teams don't pay their OG's as much as Davis. The Eagles do, but that's because they have the best RG in the league in Shawn Andrews, who is vastly superior to Davis in everything except for being a massive first round bust.

Roy Williams sucked in pass coverage in every game last year, regardless of pass rush. He's a great safety for run support and blitz, but his coverage skills and range are very limited. It is just fact. He is probably underrated in coverage, but he's still below average. That is just fact. The pass rush can help mask his deficiencies, but that won't make him a better player.

Phillips is an excellent DC, but his tenure as a HC has been suspect. He has problems controlling a lockerroom, and his game management skills are very poor historically. I love him as a DC, but I'm not sold on him as a HC. As a HC, he is not responsible for defensive playcalls. He is a game manager. That is not his strong suit.

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Right here right now, if I had to choose, I'd take Merriman over Ware until Ware could show me a better pass rush.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Dallas fighting with Redskins for the #2 O-line? So everyone just assumes the Giants have the worse O-line. I love that. I hope your teams underestimate them as much as the fans are.

Every OLine in the NFC East is top 12 at worst. At this point, it's just about overall depth, quality, coaching, and execution. It's not an insult in any way.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Davis at guard is a freakin beast. I pity all of you who think he was a bad FA signing. He will be dominant. And actually, he has great athletiscism and feet for his size. And now he is a right guard, not a left tackle. He should be dominant.

And as for Roy Williams, he sucked in the 2nd half because WE HAD NO PASS RUSH. Now we will have one of the best pass rushes in the NFL with the addition of Spencer and Wade Phillips. Roy will return to form.

San Diego's front 7 was better because they had Wade Phillips. Wade Phillips is a 3-4 genius. We have him now. hahahahahaha........

Then please tell me why Davis wasn't a beast as a guard in Arizona.....

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:56 PM
Actually Colombo is 28. And he has been hurt, that is why he hasn't made any noise. And Davis is not a freakin blob. AS A GUARD he is a great signing. He will be in the pro-bowl.

And Ware is easily better than Merriman. Merriman is a freakin joke. All he does is run at the QB. He can't cover anything. Ware covers like a CB. Parcells held Ware back, that is why he doesn't look as good. Don't give the sack numbers, I don't care about that crap. Ware easily has more potential, and I think Wade Phillips will show that this season.

As far as talent goes, Cowboys easily lead that category.

AS A GUARD, Davis is overpaid at best. He will have to be the best OG in the league to even come close to justifying his salary. Given his history, he was slightly overpaid as a LT.

Again, paper doesn't win championships.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:56 PM
Ware has more talent thatn Merriman. Merriman is so overrated. All Merriman does is run at the QB. What don't people get about that? I guess it is to over their heads.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Davis was a LT in Arizona. Also, all the other o-lineman sucked on his team, we have other good lineman. Also, Arizona sucked. Everyone leaves arizona and becomes good. He will be way more motivated in Dallas.

People will be in for a big suprise with Davis this year. Starting RG in the pro-bowl.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 01:57 PM
Every OLine in the NFC East is top 12 at worst. At this point, it's just about overall depth, quality, coaching, and execution. It's not an insult in any way.

Considering overall depth, quality, coaching and execution there is no way we are worse than the Cowboys O-line. Fat POS Leonard Davis or not.

Shiver
05-09-2007, 01:58 PM
Ware has more talent thatn Merriman. Merriman is so overrated. All Merriman does is run at the QB. What don't people get about that? I guess it is to over their heads.

The fact that you believe this nonsense is the funny part...

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 01:59 PM
Ware has more talent thatn Merriman. Merriman is so overrated. All Merriman does is run at the QB. What don't people get about that? I guess it is to over their heads.

You do realize that Wade plans on doing THE EXACT SAME THING with Ware this year right?

Does that make Ware overrated now too?

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 01:59 PM
Considering overall depth, quality, coaching and execution there is no way we are worse than the Cowboys O-line. Fat POS Leonard Davis or not.

I'd really like to see the Giants make an addition at LT before I finalize that arugment. If they trade with the Browns, I would probably be more inclined to agree.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:02 PM
Davis was a LT in Arizona. Also, all the other o-lineman sucked on his team, we have other good lineman. Also, Arizona sucked. Everyone leaves arizona and becomes good. He will be way more motivated in Dallas.

People will be in for a big suprise with Davis this year. Starting RG in the pro-bowl.

Achilles, Davis was such a horrible LT in Arizona that they moved him to RG for much of his tenure there. At RG, he was decent. When Denny Green came in, he said that Davis was being paid like a franchise LT, so he would have to play there. He played there on a better OLine and was subpar in 2005 and 2006. He is not the answer to your prayers.

Sidebet on the Pro Bowl: If both Chris Snee and Shawn Andrews are healthy all season, and Davis is the starting RG in the Pro Bowl, I'll delete my account. If Davis doesn't make the pro bowl roster, you'll delete yours.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 02:03 PM
But Ware can cover. Ware is also a beast against the run. Merriman isn't, and he never will be. Ware is a lot more fluid.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 02:03 PM
Davis was a LT in Arizona. Also, all the other o-lineman sucked on his team, we have other good lineman. Also, Arizona sucked. Everyone leaves arizona and becomes good. He will be way more motivated in Dallas.

People will be in for a big suprise with Davis this year. Starting RG in the pro-bowl.

Davis played G in Arizona as well....but you probably didn't know that. Who leaves Arizona and becomes good again?

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 02:03 PM
Well, we'll see what Guy Whimper is made of this year. I have a feeling that we'll keep Diehl at OG and give Whimper the nod at LT. Unless he bombs in PS.

Jughead10
05-09-2007, 02:03 PM
I'd really like to see the Giants make an addition at LT before I finalize that arugment. If they trade with the Browns, I would probably be more inclined to agree.

Diehl at LT at this point is no better or worse than Flozell Adams. He played there the last two games of the season and was fine. In fact Tiki went on to have his best game in his career rushing behind Diehl for most of the game.

Honestly I don't see Shaffer as an upgrade at LT over Diehl. I look at it as providing depth. Than Seubert could be amazing depth instead of a starter.

Ewing
05-09-2007, 02:03 PM
But Ware can cover. Ware is also a beast against the run. Merriman isn't, and he never will be. Ware is a lot more fluid.

3-4 OLB's don't need to be good at coverage.

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 02:04 PM
I don't care, he still can do it, Merriman can't. Merriman just runs at the QB. He isn't even a football player in my mind. He just runs upfield. Thats all.

I won't make that deal Bsaza because the fans voting for the pro-bowl is horrible. Davis will be dominant, but the fans are stupid.

LMAO at the people who are saying Davis is a fat POS. Just wait for week 1 giants fans when w win by 4 TDs.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:04 PM
But Ware can cover. Ware is also a beast against the run. Merriman isn't, and he never will be. Ware is a lot more fluid.

Prove it. This is all subjective. Where are the stats and scouting reports and video to prove this. Show me proof, and I'll leave you alone.

Shiver
05-09-2007, 02:05 PM
But Ware can cover. Ware is also a beast against the run. Merriman isn't, and he never will be. Ware is a lot more fluid.

Shawne Merriman is excellent against the run. The only thing Ware is better is in coverage.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:05 PM
I won't make that deal Bsaza because the fans voting for the pro-bowl is horrible. Davis will be dominant, but the fans are stupid.

Fair point. How about signature dap. If Davis makes the pro bowl, I will admit defeat and admit that the Cowboys made a good signing. If he doesn't, you will sport a pro-Eagles message in your sig for the month of February 2008?

SeanTaylorRIP
05-09-2007, 02:06 PM
Jeez the blatant homerism in this thread is making me sick. You can root for your team but be real. I will admit the skins have a questionable LG, Questions at QB although I think JC will surprise, and the worst D-line in the NFL but some of these comments I am reading here by flaming homers just make me sick.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 02:07 PM
Diehl at LT at this point is no better or worse than Flozell Adams. He played there the last two games of the season and was fine. In fact Tiki went on to have his best game in his career rushing behind Diehl for most of the game.

Honestly I don't see Shaffer as an upgrade at LT over Diehl. I look at it as providing depth. Than Seubert could be amazing depth instead of a starter.

It's not that Shaffer is better than Diehl at LT...but Shaffer at LT and Diehl at LG with Seubert as a backup to the interior spots is better than Diehl at LT and Seubert at LG with Ruegamer as a backup to the interior spots.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 02:08 PM
I don't care, he still can do it, Merriman can't. Merriman just runs at the QB. He isn't even a football player in my mind. He just runs upfield. Thats all.

I won't make that deal Bsaza because the fans voting for the pro-bowl is horrible. Davis will be dominant, but the fans are stupid.

LMAO at the people who are saying Davis is a fat POS. Just wait for week 1 giants fans when w win by 4 TDs.

You wan to gamle your account on that?

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 02:08 PM
But Ware can cover. Ware is also a beast against the run. Merriman isn't, and he never will be. Ware is a lot more fluid.

Merriman may not have the coverage abilities of Ware, but he is definately a force against the run as well. Not as good as Ware, but maybe slightly below him as far as run stuffing goes.


However, as a pass rusher, Merriman is infintely better than Ware. And nobody held Ware back. Ware is holding himself back by not improving his arsenal of pass rush moves. You can count on your fingers how many times he did a move to get the qb last year. I saw all the games too. He either does a bullrush or a speed rush off the edge. He never sets his man up. Right now, he's not a great pass rusher.


So right now, I give the edge to Merriman. If i told you before they were both drafted that Merriman would be the better pass rusher, but Ware would be better in coverage, I HIGHLY doubt anyone would still choose Ware over Merriman. You don't draft em for coverage, you draft em for pass rush.

Can Ware become better? Yes he can. But like I said a million times, it has very little to do with the scheme change. It has more to do with his development in TC than anything else.


And remember, don't bring up the "it takes 3 years to make the DE/OLB transition" thing, because thats referring to coverage and getting used to standing up. As a pass rusher, theres barely any time of adjustment. And Ware is having a hard time as a pass rusher, not the other things. So until he works on his pass rush and his moves, he'll probably continue to be second fiddle to Merriman. But like I said, its still possible to fix. It all depends on his individual development.

Paul
05-09-2007, 02:09 PM
That's what happens when everyone is objective. We need something to stir up controversy, otherwise it will be as exciting as Marc Bulger.

You asked, and goddanmit did you receive.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:09 PM
Ooh! Do the account gamble. I remember ST21 did it and got crushed. It was glorious!

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 02:09 PM
Deal Bsaza, but you also h ave to wear a Davis sig.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:10 PM
I'm so angry right now, but the day is flying by. HOOWAH!!!

Achilles33
05-09-2007, 02:10 PM
Ware also has the potential to be better as a pass rusher. He is faster, quicker, and more fluid. And yes, Parcells and Zimmer were horrible last year. Wade will make Ware a beast.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:11 PM
Deal Bsaza, but you also h ave to wear a Davis sig.

No sig. Sig quote of the winner's choice.

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:11 PM
Ware also has the potential to be better as a pass rusher. He is faster, quicker, and more fluid. And yes, Parcells and Zimmer were horrible last year. Wade will make Ware a beast.

For the love of the game, I hope you're right. Ware has room for improvement.

Number 10
05-09-2007, 02:12 PM
Deal Bsaza, but you also h ave to wear a Davis sig.

What about me? Let's gamble our accounts on your 4 TD margin of victory statement. Or do you realize it was stupid?

bsaza2358
05-09-2007, 02:14 PM
I'm sure he will qualify his statement with some sort of lesser prediction. Be careful, #10...