Kansas City Chiefs Discussion

[USAF Chief]

If we want tank, we need to take him @ 23 or trade down into the VERY early second round or late first. He will not be there by the time we pick in round two.

Nuff Said.

[adschofield]

I've heard that Tank Tyler is a 2nd-3rd pick

[T-RICH49]

James Reed has reportedly re-signed according to Warpaint

[Hermstheman83]

I think theres a possibility that we might get a third or second round pick for Trent Green....the Longer the Dolphins' wait, the higher it goes...

[Hermstheman83]

Speaking of DT's, what about this guy, Marcus Thomas? Seems like a troubled kid but Herm almost specializes in Kids like that.....plus it says he has "first round talent" could be a "sleeper"

[BPhilb]

Speaking of DT's, what about this guy, Marcus Thomas? Seems like a troubled kid but Herm almost specializes in Kids like that.....plus it says he has "first round talent" could be a "sleeper"


I'm not opposed to him in the third round. He is a defenite risk, but has a ton of talent.

[Ho0k Em']

Speaking of DT's, what about this guy, Marcus Thomas? Seems like a troubled kid but Herm almost specializes in Kids like that.....plus it says he has "first round talent" could be a "sleeper"

Not worth the risk in the 3rd.

[The Legend]

I found this link that about player you guys have on the trade block

1. Trent Green
2. Dante Hall
3. Greg Wesley
4. Larry Johnson

It's not a good year for them to be short a draft pick, which [the Chiefs] are because they sent their fourth-round choice to New Orleans in last season's trade for running back Michael Bennett. ...That's why the Chiefs are offering in trades quarterback Trent Green, starting safety Greg Wesley, kick returner Dante Hall and even running back Larry Johnson.

http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2007/04/21/kansas-city-chiefs-everything-must-go/

[bored of education]

I'd trade all of them away for 6 more 1st day picks and 2 more next year

[Hermstheman83]

Wow, with that agenda, we'd be looking at a 3 win season. I don't think(and hope) that LJ isnt' going anywhere, the others are expendable however.

[villagewarrior]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: trading LJ is a good idea.

[BPhilb]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: trading LJ is a good idea.


Tha part I have an problem with is that if we trade him that's pretty much a sure sign that we are going in rebuilding mode. Though our offseason signings of Edwards, McIntosh, Harris, Edwards, and Reed aren't really moves that indicate that we are planning to punt the season now. It almost seems like the front office waffles on what direction we want to go.

[Hermstheman83]

It is highly unlikely that we trade Larry Johnson, he's pretty much the poster boy for Kansas City. Also, he's a franchise Running back, even if we are in rebuilding mode, we wouldn't throw away our franchise player.

[villagewarrior]

Tha part I have an problem with is that if we trade him that's pretty much a sure sign that we are going in rebuilding mode. Though our offseason signings of Edwards, McIntosh, Harris, Edwards, and Reed aren't really moves that indicate that we are planning to punt the season now. It almost seems like the front office waffles on what direction we want to go.

Yeah, I like the signings of Donnie, McIntosh and Harris, I just don't like the years involved. However, these do seem to indicate that the Chiefs won't be dealing LJ.

[Hermstheman83]

I personally don't understand why guys' like Villagewarrior want to trade away LJ. Based on the RB prospects this year, LJ is still better than Peterson or Lynch. So hypothetically, we trade away LJ to the Browns for #3, and we pick up an injury-prone Running back like AP,we definately would not benefit from that.

[villagewarrior]

I wouldn't draft Peterson in that scenario. Joe Thomas all the way or Calvin Johnson perhaps. I think if you have a strong offensive and defensive line then then you can put any running back behind them and they can gain 1000 yards or any corner back and they will lock down opposing receivers.

Trading a player like LJ will be a blow, no doubt, but sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take 2 steps forward.

[eazyb81]

What's up guys, long time no see.

The sad thing about this situation is that the consensus seems to be that we should trade him. However, no one is going to give us top compensation for him when they will have to turn around and give him a ridiculous contract. It's the same situation as when Seattle was trying to trade Alexander a year or two ago. They wanted a 1st, but the most anyone offered was a 2nd, so they bit the bullet and paid him.

I would love to see us trade him and get a Herschel Walker type package in return, but that's not realistic these days.

[BPhilb]

What's up guys, long time no see.

The sad thing about this situation is that the consensus seems to be that we should trade him. However, no one is going to give us top compensation for him when they will have to turn around and give him a ridiculous contract. It's the same situation as when Seattle was trying to trade Alexander a year or two ago. They wanted a 1st, but the most anyone offered was a 2nd, so they bit the bullet and paid him.

I would love to see us trade him and get a Herschel Walker type package in return, but that's not realistic these days.


Hey EZ good to hear from you. I agree with what your saying, it's almost a detremint to have a star quality running back now days. The best deal I heard was similar to what Miami paid New Orleans for Ricky Williams which would be a first rounder this year plus a conditional 1st rounder next year if he hits 1,500 yards with his new team. If he doesn't hit the conidtion it would be a third next year. I don't necessarly like the deal but the rumor I read was a similar deal to the above with Buffalo.

[Hermstheman83]

I wouldn't draft Peterson in that scenario. Joe Thomas all the way or Calvin Johnson perhaps. I think if you have a strong offensive and defensive line then then you can put any running back behind them and they can gain 1000 yards or any corner back and they will lock down opposing receivers.

Trading a player like LJ will be a blow, no doubt, but sometimes you have to take a step back in order to take 2 steps forward.

Ok, i can see that, but then that means our starting running back, is Michael Bennet, and i see him as a third down, change of pace back. But if gets injured the season would be down the toilet, althought Derrick Ross was a player of the week in the NFLE, that is a world of difference between europe and USA. Then again, we could end up with Michael Bush, which I don't think would be an evil scenario.
That being said, I wouldn't mind having a monster like Joe Thomas anchor the LT position for awhile though

[Splat]

Just One More Day Boys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BPhilb]

Can't wait. It's going to be fun watching guys come off the board because I still have no idea what direction we are going. I'm refreshing ESPN about every 10 minutes today looking for any deals for Trent Green today also hoping that we can aquire another pick before the draft. If there is one thing I'm certain of though it's that we will not have much on the flashy side tomorrow, but will come away with some solid football players that should contribute immediatley.

[eazyb81]

Tomorrow should be a wild day. I can't remember the last time we went into a draft with so many questions of which positions we will target.

WR makes a lot of sense, and Meachem would probably be my choice there.

DT would also make sense, and Harrell would be a good target if they think he can be productive 3-tech guy in our system.

OT is an obvious need, but it depends on whether they think Staley can develop into a top-shelf left tackle. I personally think he can, but that is obviously up for discussion.

CB is deep this year, and I would jump at Revis or Hall if they fell to us. If not, I could see us taking someone like Ross, but if it were up to me I would wait and address the position later on.

DE is a wildcard, as they could select an end to use as leverage in the Allen situation. I wouldn't like it, but I could see it happen.

[BPhilb]

Tomorrow should be a wild day. I can't remember the last time we went into a draft with so many questions of which positions we will target.

WR makes a lot of sense, and Meachem would probably be my choice there.

DT would also make sense, and Harrell would be a good target if they think he can be productive 3-tech guy in our system.

OT is an obvious need, but it depends on whether they think Staley can develop into a top-shelf left tackle. I personally think he can, but that is obviously up for discussion.

CB is deep this year, and I would jump at Revis or Hall if they fell to us. If not, I could see us taking someone like Ross, but if it were up to me I would wait and address the position later on.

DE is a wildcard, as they could select an end to use as leverage in the Allen situation. I wouldn't like it, but I could see it happen.

I agree with your statement of the DE's. I'm hoping we don't go that route because we need to upgrade in so many other areas, but it wouldn't shock me if it happened even in round 1. Heck, even at this point a LB, RB or safety wouldn't be a total shock though those are the postions in which I would be very upset if we addressed early.

[Splat]

I'm reallly high on Justin Blaylock if we go OL.

[villagewarrior]

EZ, welcome back bub.

I am also completely perplexed as to the direction the Chiefs will go. At this point I'm thinking Joe Staley is probably the guy I want the most (depending on who's available). Of course, if we get another first round pick that just makes the draft that much more convoluted.

[eazyb81]

I agree with your statement of the DE's. I'm hoping we don't go that route because we need to upgrade in so many other areas, but it wouldn't shock me if it happened even in round 1. Heck, even at this point a LB, RB or safety wouldn't be a total shock though those are the postions in which I would be very upset if we addressed early.

Same here, i'm not a fan of taking DE two years in a row, but I wouldn't be totally shocked if it happened. Herm took Bryan Thomas in the 1st a few years back when he already had Abraham and Ellis, so the track record is there.

Personally, i'm a Staley fan, but it seems like people either love him or hate him.

WR is obviously a huge need, but we could wait and get a guy like Craig Davis in the 2nd and not see much of a drop in value compared to 1st round guys.

Either way, tomorrow should be fun.

[eazyb81]

EZ, welcome back bub.

Thanks man, glad to be back.

I am also completely perplexed as to the direction the Chiefs will go. At this point I'm thinking Joe Staley is probably the guy I want the most (depending on who's available). Of course, if we get another first round pick that just makes the draft that much more convoluted.

I also like Staley, but a few KC fans on other boards absolutely hate him, so it will be interesting to see the reaction if we take him. He has all the physical tools you look for in an elite left tackle prospect, he just needs some fine tuning on his technique to take the next step. I have faith that Solari and company could help him, but we'll see what happens.

[T-RICH49]

I'm thinking Bowe is going to be our pick.everything Herm likes in a WR.Size, good hands, decent speed and can BLOCK in the running game.That alone might seperate him from the other WR's

[BPhilb]

I'm thinking Bowe is going to be our pick.everything Herm likes in a WR.Size, good hands, decent speed and can BLOCK in the running game.That alone might seperate him from the other WR's

Wouldn't suprise me at all. His blocking ability is a huge selling point for our offense. He wouldn't upset me even though I feel we need to shore up the interior first.

[Splat]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=rotowire-arryohnsonouldbeoren&prov=rotowire&type=fantasy

Update: Coach Herm Edwards wants to get Johnson more involved in the passing game and would like to see the running back catch 60 passes this season, the Kansas City Star reports.

Recommendation: Johnson has proven himself to be a capable receiver, grabbing 41 passes for 410 yards last season. The Chiefs would like to cut down on Johnson's carries this season to keep him fresh, but the added receptions could help compensate for the likely decrease in rushing yards. An extra 20 catches could add around 200 yards to his receiving totals.

[villagewarrior]

Better have a capable back up ready to go. LJ is a big strong dude, but there is only so much the human body can endure.

[Splat]

Better have a capable back up ready to go. LJ is a big strong dude, but there is only so much the human body can endure.

I'm going to be keeping an eye on Kolby Smith at the open practice I hope he steps up as the #2 RB.

[T-RICH49]

I'll be watching Tank Tyler personally.I wanna see how he does against veterans

[Hermstheman83]

Yea, I would like to see him. He seems like he'll be an anchor of the KC line for a long, long time. Two guys' that I will be intrigured by(and I think doesn't get alot of attention) are Turk McBride and Chris Harris.

[Hermstheman83]

So, being a resident in Iowa, and an Iowa State Fan, I see the scouting report on Deandre Jackson and he seems like a guy who will fit a cover 2 scheme really well. He has been injured alot, but I haven't seen anyone pick him up, even as an undrafted FA...does anyone know about this guy? Here's his scouting report...
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/deandrejackson.html

Obviuosly herm knows best, but I was just wondering why he's not around ANYWHERE and we have Breckenridge(of whom I have never heard of.)

[Splat]

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/191073.html

Jared Allen was planning to treat the first month of the Chiefs’ schedule as the off season. He was going to head back to Arizona and work out with a trainer much as he did during the spring.

Allen, a starting defensive end, will have to rethink that strategy after learning that the NFL — after hearing his appeal — reduced his season-opening suspension from four games to two.

Allen will not be paid for the two games he misses.

[bhaarat316]

Any of u guys suprised the Preist Holmes is back

[Hermstheman83]

Well, I am more surprised that Turley came back, where would he start I wonder? He was a dominant left tackle in his prime(what..two years ago?)

[villagewarrior]

I'm not surprised, Priest is a tough SOB. I don't think he'll ever be the same old Priest, but I think he will be useful.

[Hermstheman83]

Yea, if anyone fits that description as a "tough and stubborn" Priest Holmes is it. I'm just worried that him being so tough and stubborn will end up killing him in the NFL(spinal injuries are pretty serious). I always though of Bennett as Holmes' Replacement, Holmes is/was the better overall back, and Bennett has more speed.

[villagewarrior]

Yea, if anyone fits that description as a "tough and stubborn" Priest Holmes is it. I'm just worried that him being so tough and stubborn will end up killing him in the NFL(spinal injuries are pretty serious). I always though of Bennett as Holmes' Replacement, Holmes is/was the better overall back, and Bennett has more speed.

Spinal injuries are serious, but the doctor's wouldn't let him back on the field if he wasn't ok to play.

[T-RICH49]

speaking of Priest


http://www.uwrf.edu/chiefs/photogallery/070729am/full/070729-AM-089.jpg

Good to see No. 31 back in a Red and White jeresey

[TitleTown088]

Hey that's great, but who are the chefs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U_EfE-mqgE

[T-RICH49]

I Got 2 Tickets To The Saints Game!!!! :D

[Splat]

This is going to be a very very long season.

[adschofield]

This is going to be a very very long season.

It's the PRE-SEASON!!!!!!

It doesn't matter at all, we looked this crappy if not worse last pre-season

[Splat]

It's the PRE-SEASON!!!!!!

It doesn't matter at all, we looked this crappy if not worse last pre-season

30 to 7 we did not look this bad last year we are going to suck it up we have no QB,LT or RT and the WR's drop balls left and right. The 3rd pre season game is the most real like game you play they even game plan some and we got lit up on both sides of the ball.

[bored of education]

It just maybe a long season.

[Crickett]

Hey that's great, but who are the chefs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U_EfE-mqgE

Great googly moogly!

[villagewarrior]

I dislike naming Huard the starting QB, granted, he gives the Chiefs the best chance of winning now, but frankly I would be very, very surprised if the Chiefs were able to win this year. The offensive line is horrid, will McIntosh be that much of a boost when he returns? I hope so, but I'm sceptical.

LJ is a good runner, but as of now, with no offensive line, he is the only weapon the Chiefs have on offense. Gonzo will be nonexistent, he will be asked to block like when Roaf went down. Huard isn't that good of a QB, and he will not have the time to find any open receivers down field.

If the Chiefs hope to have a chance, they need to be like the Ravens of 2000 or whatever year they won the Super Bowl in. The defense must be dominant, and the offense must be able to control the ball and not turn it over. If either side is less then excellent then this team will fail in 2007.

Failure in 2007 will put the Chiefs a year behind in development. Eventually Brodie Croyle is going to have to go through his growing pains, all we are doing by not letting him play this year is delaying the inevitable. Bad move by starting Huard, in my opinion.

[bored of education]

I think it is a bad move as well. I must say at this point, where the Chief's are as an organization, throwing Croyle at the helm would allow for the Chiefs to determine if he is the guy for the next 6-10 years. If he doesn't suffice, we have plenty of draft picks to snag a QB first round even. But if they don't throw him in now, its only stalling his development process and the organizations ability to assess his abilities.

[BPhilb]

I think it is a bad move as well. I must say at this point, where the Chief's are as an organization, throwing Croyle at the helm would allow for the Chiefs to determine if he is the guy for the next 6-10 years. If he doesn't suffice, we have plenty of draft picks to snag a QB first round even. But if they don't throw him in now, its only stalling his development process and the organizations ability to assess his abilities.


I disagree. I think we still have to try to win this season and Huard gives us the best chance to do so. I we are going to fall this year we should know pretty early as our schedule is pretty tough. If we are 1-3 or so we should be in a position to play Croyle and do so when we determine the situation is the best (most likely at home). We still have a vetren team and starting a young QB that hasn't looked great in the preseason is probably not the way we want to start the season. We should have plenty of time to evaluate Croyle before the year is out anyway. I don't think even Bret Farve could last 16 games behind our line.

[Hermstheman83]

That's very true, our line is much improved from last year, but unless we get Damion Mcintosh back, Croyle would get hurt with Svitek blocking for him. You can tell Herm likes Croyle though, I think he'll be good, just have patience.

Byron Leftwich???Thoughts?

[BPhilb]

I actually like Leftwich and wouldn't mind him getting a shot. He's pretty young still and a lot of the stat guys such as KC Joyner and Football Outsiders have always said he is vastly underrated. That said I don't think there is a chance Peterson will sign him as it appears that they are tying our future strictly to Croyle. The only good thing about this is that if we would happen to have a terrible year Brian Brohm would be our next QB and all of these conversations would be rendered pointless.

[Hermstheman83]

I actually like Leftwich and wouldn't mind him getting a shot. He's pretty young still and a lot of the stat guys such as KC Joyner and Football Outsiders have always said he is vastly underrated. That said I don't think there is a chance Peterson will sign him as it appears that they are tying our future strictly to Croyle. The only good thing about this is that if we would happen to have a terrible year Brian Brohm would be our next QB and all of these conversations would be rendered pointless.

That's ok too, I think Croyle will be very good in this league. I hate it that people put so much emphasis on pre-season. I agree about Brohm, then again, if our offense kills us this next year, then we could solidify our O-line with a guy like Sam Baker or that oneguy from Michigan. Ideally, that's what I'd like to do(but it's way to early to be talking top ten draft choices).

[T-RICH49]

can someone please explain WHY we cut Hannon and Printers?

[Splat]

can someone please explain WHY we cut Hannon and Printers?

Hannon I don't know we wanted to put CP on the PS and he said no just cut me he is thinking of going back to the CFL.

[Splat]

That's very true, our line is much improved from last year

What???????????????????? I would take Jordan Black over WS at this point and people keep saying wait till D-Mac gets back did you watch Miami last year he is not that good. Is he better then Black and WS sure but he is far from a pro bowler it is going to be a long year for our line.

[Hermstheman83]

The rest of our line is pretty solid with Vets. Weigman, Turley(a little shaky), Waters(Pro-Bowler and at least the second best guard in the league) and Mac, he will solidify that position this year, he's not too good of a pass blocker but it's the running game he's really good at.....he's a stop gap and hopefully Sam Baker falls to where we land in the draft...

Side note, I wonder why Svitek just sucks, I mean, he dominated in NFLE, perhaps this is the reason it got shut down?

[Splat]

The rest of our line is pretty solid with Vets. Weigman, Turley(a little shaky), Waters(Pro-Bowler and at least the second best guard in the league) and Mac, he will solidify that position this year, he's not too good of a pass blocker but it's the running game he's really good at.....he's a stop gap and hopefully Sam Baker falls to where we land in the draft...

Side note, I wonder why Svitek just sucks, I mean, he dominated in NFLE, perhaps this is the reason it got shut down?

The only not shaky spot is LG Weigaman is a small center and does not fit our system he gets pushed around by bigger DT's. I don't want you to get me wrong I like him alot he was great under DV he just doesn't fit in with the power running game. People keep saying we have alot of Vets on the line just a nice way of so they are old IMO. As for Svitek and NFLE it is not the same game Scanlon (SP?) was a stud over there as well.

[Hermstheman83]

But the guy behind him we drafted and sounds pretty good(Nuiswanger) is a power type center that does fit our system. I do agree that our line isn't as good as it was under DV, but I also argue that that line was one of the best in the NFL history.
Welbourn is back at his natural position. Granted, our Line isn't very good, that's a fair assumption, but has it improved from last year with I-65? Absoluetly! KC has a lot of talent,and I think they will surprise a lot of people. That being said, I hope the youth movement focuses on Tackles in next years draft(Sam Baker perhaps)....

[villagewarrior]

I still have hope for Svitek, but it's dwindling. He may be too lean to play offensive line in the league, he doesn't seem to have the power to kick back and hold his ground against aggressive bullrushers. He does fine against guys who try to just run around him, Svitek is extremely athletic for a guy his size, but he doesn't have enough bulk to hold his ground against a bull rush.

[jbombul]

hey chiefs fans, i was curious if johnny baldwin has played at all this year. he looked very promising in the preseason and we cut him for reasons unkown to me. if you could let me know if hes played or how hes looked, i'd appreciate it thanks guys!

ps- i always knew lj would eventually carry my fantasy team :)

[T-RICH49]

he has been in on special teams when he has played

[jbombul]

thank you for your input +rep

[Hermstheman83]

Does anyone know how Herb Taylor and Rudy are doing? I was stoked when we picked up Rudy, but he hasn't shown anything..anyone?

[bored of education]

I like Rudy as a G or C. I'd be curious as well.

[TitanHope]

Good game today guys.

[T-RICH49]

I thought Brodie looked really good vs a great defense

[bored of education]

I didnt get to watch it again. But i was watching gamecast. I was shocked at the amount of passes he threw. Much down field action or mostly short throws?

[TitanHope]

I thought Croyle looked good also, and his WR's came through for him big. He's always had a great arm. His late INT's hurt him, though. Before then, he was making the Titans DEF look amateur. Haynesworth barely played, but even when he was in, he couldn't even make an impact.

BoE, most of his passes were short. A lot of dink and dunk early on, but he attempted to throw it 40+ yards downfield to Bowe two or three times but just couldn't connect. It think his Y/A was around 5 for the game. Smith ran the ball well, but KC elected to throw it mostly.

[bored of education]

thanks man for that

[BroadwayJoe10]

Hey guys, I was just reading this and I figured it would be important info for your team as well:

Chad Pennington & Laveranues Coles to be Traded to Kansas City?

JetNation.com has learned that the Jets have had conversations with the Kansas City Chiefs about a blockbuster trade. The Jets would send both Chad Pennington and Laveranues Coles to Kansas City in exchange for the Chiefs 1st round pick. The Jets would also receive a 4th rounder and a possible 2nd day pick in the 2009 draft. The 2009 pick would be tied in some way to performance. We are told that a deal is essentially in place and it will be announced in the off-season.

Max notes that this is the same story that broke the information on Andre Wadsworth … so take that for what it’s worth …





From your point, I am not 100% sure how i'd feel. A first and a 4th is a lot to give up. But you'd get coles who is my favorite player in this league and i think probably one of the toughest. Chad has proven to be able to lead a team given the right surrounding cast and would definately be a great tudor for croyle. I have a feeling if i were a chiefs fan i don't think i would like it.

[bored of education]

Coles, Bowe, Gonzo, LJ would be nice for Croyle around him. I dont know how i feel about giving up a 1st. I think O-Line is needed desperately.

[bored of education]

i could see giving up a 4th and 5th for them though. not 1st and 4th lol

[BroadwayJoe10]

i could see giving up a 4th and 5th for them though. not 1st and 4th lol

Ya, i really can't see a 1st and a 4th either, but maybe that's why i'm here and they're there. (amongst many other reasons im sure) I know i've heard herm is under pressure to get the offense moving and coles would certainly help, but i don't know how much more affective Chad could be without a solid Oline. Granted his recievers will be better in kansas city and the running game will be better. haha Oh well Herm is your head coach now and no longer our problem to worry about, we've got plenty of our own.

[bored of education]

we both have plenty of issues haha

[hcbrad08]

-what became excessive for me is the idea of future picks in 2009.

Think about the market value for QBs...
you guys traded Trent Green a 37 year Old Concussion prone QB with a bad TD to INT ratio in his last season witht KC for a 4th rd pick

Pennington is a 31 year old QB (yes he was injury prone[but in his defense some have been freak injuries], and has a small arm but) he has shown he can win and not make mistakes that will lose you a game. His conenction to Herm also helps this rumor hold a bit of water. If you look at the Jets forum you'll see a lot of people saying the Jets coaching staff has been doing what they want as opposed to what would work for the team (ex. not modifying any part of the defense to fit J. Vilmas playmaking ability...amongst others) the same happened with Chad. He is a west coast offense QB who works best out of play action. The Jets did nothing in terms of schemeing or play calling to help this with Larry Johnson he would hurt a lot of people with it.
I grade him based on market value at a low 2nd high 3rd round draft choice.

Laverneus Coles is not the biggest but he plays like it. He is one of the most sure handed recievers I've ever seen. He is one of the best in the NFL at YAC (ill reference you to any clip of him he will catch the ball with his body toward the QB then make a turn up field but the turn consists of a pump fake turn one way and run the other and it works 99% of the time. He is gritty, tough (and like Randy moss makes catches with his fingertips...he has very strong hands...look at clips and he explcitily catches balls away from his body and even if a cb is there they cant take it away) if Bowe wasn't on your team Coles would be the best WR KC has seen in a while. No Offense to Kennison and his numbers with you guys but Coles is better. Theres a reason that if you ask alot of Jets fans who the best Jet is theyd say Coles and if you ask NFL personnel who the toughest WR is theyd say Coles.
I'd grade him at a late 1st early 2nd rd draft pick.

Considering their cap numbers it would be an easy deal and the Cheifs would get the QB they want for a short time to help groom Croyle and a WR that will be a threat to be a security blanket for the short (pennington) and long (croyle) term

Im not syaing its going to happen Im just trying to present you with the rationale that the crazy Jets fan who came up with this rumor was using. Im a huge Jets fan and I love Coles and I know how good Pennington can be if he has a halfway decent line and a o coordinator with 1/2 a brain who uses play action. I think the trade makes sense in some ways but in other ways it doesnt Itll be intersting to see if it happens, but even if it does I doubt its for a 1st and a 4th. I think part of the details of the trade might have gotten lost maybe there were escalators dictating how much the Jets would give back in the 2009 draft left out maybe the 4th rd pick is too much, but a deal based around a 1st round pick for these two is not out of the question, its just not exactly realistic either given the needs of the teams, but carl peterson and herm have a connection with doing deals with the jets so the rumors could have some truth to them

WHATEVER
we'll see how things pan out if it happens. If not the only thing lost is acouple if minutes talking about it. Best of luck and I'll see you guys on Decemeber 30th at the meadowlands.

[BPhilb]

-what became excessive for me is the idea of future picks in 2009.

Think about the market value for QBs...
you guys traded Trent Green a 37 year Old Concussion prone QB with a bad TD to INT ratio in his last season witht KC for a 4th rd pick

Pennington is a 31 year old QB (yes he was injury prone[but in his defense some have been freak injuries], and has a small arm but) he has shown he can win and not make mistakes that will lose you a game. His conenction to Herm also helps this rumor hold a bit of water. If you look at the Jets forum you'll see a lot of people saying the Jets coaching staff has been doing what they want as opposed to what would work for the team (ex. not modifying any part of the defense to fit J. Vilmas playmaking ability...amongst others) the same happened with Chad. He is a west coast offense QB who works best out of play action. The Jets did nothing in terms of schemeing or play calling to help this with Larry Johnson he would hurt a lot of people with it.
I grade him based on market value at a low 2nd high 3rd round draft choice.

Laverneus Coles is not the biggest but he plays like it. He is one of the most sure handed recievers I've ever seen. He is one of the best in the NFL at YAC (ill reference you to any clip of him he will catch the ball with his body toward the QB then make a turn up field but the turn consists of a pump fake turn one way and run the other and it works 99% of the time. He is gritty, tough (and like Randy moss makes catches with his fingertips...he has very strong hands...look at clips and he explcitily catches balls away from his body and even if a cb is there they cant take it away) if Bowe wasn't on your team Coles would be the best WR KC has seen in a while. No Offense to Kennison and his numbers with you guys but Coles is better. Theres a reason that if you ask alot of Jets fans who the best Jet is theyd say Coles and if you ask NFL personnel who the toughest WR is theyd say Coles.
I'd grade him at a late 1st early 2nd rd draft pick.

Considering their cap numbers it would be an easy deal and the Cheifs would get the QB they want for a short time to help groom Croyle and a WR that will be a threat to be a security blanket for the short (pennington) and long (croyle) term

Im not syaing its going to happen Im just trying to present you with the rationale that the crazy Jets fan who came up with this rumor was using. Im a huge Jets fan and I love Coles and I know how good Pennington can be if he has a halfway decent line and a o coordinator with 1/2 a brain who uses play action. I think the trade makes sense in some ways but in other ways it doesnt Itll be intersting to see if it happens, but even if it does I doubt its for a 1st and a 4th. I think part of the details of the trade might have gotten lost maybe there were escalators dictating how much the Jets would give back in the 2009 draft left out maybe the 4th rd pick is too much, but a deal based around a 1st round pick for these two is not out of the question, its just not exactly realistic either given the needs of the teams, but carl peterson and herm have a connection with doing deals with the jets so the rumors could have some truth to them

WHATEVER
we'll see how things pan out if it happens. If not the only thing lost is acouple if minutes talking about it. Best of luck and I'll see you guys on Decemeber 30th at the meadowlands.


You are talking about two pretty good players, but if Randy Moss is going for a 4th rounder I don't know how you can put Coles as a 1st or 2nd. He's a nice player, but he has a big contract and isn't all that young for a WR. We are rebuilding here and I don't see the Chiefs taking on two vetren players. Pennington is very similar to Huard for us and we locked him up this past offseason for a pretty sizeable 3 year deal for a backup that we can't get out of until after next season. I'm sure it's fun to think about the possibilty of two first round picks from your side, but it just doesn't make any sense for us.

[bored of education]

I will be at that game in the Meadowlands!!!!!!!!!!!!

[villagewarrior]

No way do the Chiefs trade an extremely high first round pick for these players, let alone additional picks as well. Although, I should preface this by saying this trade is contingent on who wins the power struggle currently being played out at 1 Arrowhead Drive. Carl wants to put together a team that will win now for Lamar, but Herm wants to blow it up and build through the draft. If Herm wins I see no way he trades picks for aging players. And I don't see a possible top 5 pick traded for that level of player. No offense against Coles, but would you draft him with the 5th overall selection?

[CannedToast]

i could see giving up a 4th and 5th for them though. not 1st and 4th lol

A 4th and a 5th? Seriously? While a first and a fourth is high, two second day picks doesn't even come close to their value. Especially seeing how many horrible starting QB's there are in this league, I can pretty much guarantee we could get a 3rd for Pennington alone.

[CannedToast]

You are talking about two pretty good players, but if Randy Moss is going for a 4th rounder I don't know how you can put Coles as a 1st or 2nd. He's a nice player, but he has a big contract and isn't all that young for a WR. We are rebuilding here and I don't see the Chiefs taking on two vetren players. Pennington is very similar to Huard for us and we locked him up this past offseason for a pretty sizeable 3 year deal for a backup that we can't get out of until after next season. I'm sure it's fun to think about the possibilty of two first round picks from your side, but it just doesn't make any sense for us.

Yeah, and Chris Chambers was traded for a 2nd. People have to stop using the Moss deal, because it was special. No one wanted him, because of the perceived personality problems.

Coles is a hell of a lot more consistent than Chambers, too.

[bored of education]

Yeah I would go with a 2nd and 5th maybe. I don't know. Pennington 4th rounder, Coles 2/3rd maybe I dunno.

[hcbrad08]

On Moss: It wasn't that Moss' talent was going for a 4th rd pick it was that he was unhappy and unwilling to play in Oakland and his general disposition 'lockerroom cancer' wasn't wanted ...Seeing the production now I think everyone would have given up a 1st rd. My point was that coles is good and enough of a leader to merit that type of pick although I could see the market falling out bc of precedents like that but bc of chads value its not unbelieveable for BOTH Chad and Coles (considering their relationship, and chemistry on the field. coles is hius favorite reciever...no sexual inuendo intended) to garner a 1st rounder.

I think the only reason KC might do this is bc Huard was exposed this season and in order to protect your investment in Croyle (not hindering his progress by putting him out there too soon. to let him learn from an experienced QB esp considering Croyle's iunjury concerns is not a bad idea...haha maybe him and pennington can swap stories...but looks at my posts on kellen clemens in the jets forum, a QB and a high ceiling can be ruined by rushing him in there) Carl Peterson might trade for pennington as opposed to bringing in a fa vet bc it would be cheaper for a better product.

I understand the hoels you guys have on the OL, and the myriad of needs you guys need to address before a trade like this would ever happen, but I think with the trade you could combine the philosophys of herm and peterson bc Coles and Pennington are vets and know how to play good hard mistake free drive the ball down tthe field football and It would allow you a safety blanket of winning now and bringing in younger talent on the line and elsewhere and then in a year or two bringing in Croyle with a drafted G and T who have played for a year (protects his health w less sacks and a better run game)

AS THE DRAFT COMES up I see their needs as... (maybe the order is screwed up but from what ive watched of the chiefs thats what I think needs improveemnt)
1)OT
2)OG
3)WR
4)DT
5)CB

If the trade happened there are guys in the draft to take that could thrive in your system.
2)Sam Baker/Chris Williams -OT
3)Dejuan Dribble-CB
4)Drew Radovich -OG


That said I hoep whatever happens works out well for both clubs again not saying itll happen one way or the other just explaining where this may have come from and the reasoning behind it...

Good luck next week and...

I'm going to the game at the meadowlands too B.O.E

[bored of education]

niceeee go Chiefs!! lol

[TitanHope]

I don't see why the Cheifs would trade for Pennington or Coles.

I think Brodie gives them just as good of a chance as Pennington, and would undoubtedly play once Pennengton's spleen spontaneously explodes ala Simms style, and he's placed on IR. They have a veteran QB already on the roster in Huard. The only basis for this would be the Herm Edwards connection.

Coles is more plausible, but why would the Jets trade their best WR when they have a young QB who needs all the help he can get? Then, the Cheifs already have their #1 WR in Bowe and many more holes to fill besides a #2 WR.

Also, I don't think that Pennington and Coles are worth a 1st RD pick alone. The Chiefs are looking at 6-10 if they win out, which is a Top 10 pick. If they lose out, they have a Top 5 pick. Coles and Pennington don't equate to a that high of a pick. Pennington is too old, too injury prone, and despite someone knocking Trent Green's ratio, Chad only has 2 more TD's than INT's over the past 3 seasons and missed 21 games in that span. Coles is a great WR, but would be a luxury. I wouldn't trade anything more than a 4th RD pick for Pennington. Due to how early KC's pick is and the lack of need, I wouldn't trade higher than a 3rd RD pick for Coles, though another team with a WR need would undoubtedly trade more. If the Jets value Pennington and Coles higher than that, then they should just hold onto them.

I think anything higher than a 3rd and a 4th would be generous.

[adschofield]

No offense to Jets fans, but that trade will never happen.

First, Herm and Carl both love Brodie, and I think it's quite apparent that Brodie is a lot better than Pennington ever was.

Second, with the emergence of Dwayne Bowe, WR is not a huge need. We have 3 legit receivers with Bowe, Gonzo, and Kennison.

Third, this deal does not address our biggest need, and there is no way that we trade high draft picks for a game manager and an expensive WR. We are just too far away from competing to be trading away top 10 picks.

Pennington is average at best and Coles is past his prime. Brodie and Bowe>>>>>>>>Pennington and Coles

[Ho0k Em']

No offense to Jets fans, but that trade will never happen.

First, Herm and Carl both love Brodie, and I think it's quite apparent that Brodie is a lot better than Pennington ever was.

Second, with the emergence of Dwayne Bowe, WR is not a huge need. We have 3 legit receivers with Bowe, Gonzo, and Kennison.

Third, this deal does not address our biggest need, and there is no way that we trade high draft picks for a game manager and an expensive WR. We are just too far away from competing to be trading away top 10 picks.

Pennington is average at best and Coles is past his prime. Brodie and Bowe>>>>>>>>Pennington and Coles

Did you not watch Chad Pennington play before his injury? He was EASILY better than Brodie is right now, and it's not close.

[hcbrad08]

I agree pennington is and probably always will be better than croyle, who is also frail and has an interception problem. But for those of you talking about a 3rd and a 4th for those two...Wes welker was traded for a 2nd and a 7th alone and Coles is a better reciever, plus Pennington bumps that up and like I said before I think it was misreported the jets would trade Penn Coles and next years 4th rd to KC for 1st this year... well that makes sense to me in terms of value as to why they would do it. beats me?

[adschofield]

I disagree...Croyle has a much stronger arm than Pennington, and Pennington has never really been impressive in my eyes. Croyle's potential is much better than Pennington's talent right now

[TitanHope]

Croyle had one of the strongest arms in the '06 Draft, probably moreso than Cutler. He has a much bigger arm than Pennington. Also, this is Croyle's first year starting, so it's a bit early to say he has a INT problem. Brodie will get a 2nd offseason to improve, and he'll be a better QB. If Croyle is the QB of the future, Pennington is coming to KC to be a backup.

As for Wes Welker being traded for picks, that is skewed as that wasn't a trade; it was a tender reimbursement. Welker was a RFA and Miami tendered him at 2nd RD and 7th RD picks. New England signed him to an offer sheet, Miami didn't match it, and NE had to give them, not trade them, the picks. Was Welker worth it? No, but NE was in a position where they could be generous in order to get a player who would make their team better. San Diego is similar as they are a good team that can give up an early pick for a player they want, which was Chris Chambers. As for Coles being a better receiver than Welker, I disagree. Welker is having a far better year than Coles as the Slot WR for the Patriots, is a KR/PR, and is much younger. Coles certainly has the bigger name and better career, but he is not worth a 2nd RD pick right now unless he's traded to a team that has a big need at WR. Not to mention, KC's 2nd RD pick will be in the 30's, which will be a spot that 1st RD talent can be had.

If KC traded the 5th Overall pick for Coles (3rd RD value), Pennington (4th RD value), and a 2009 4th RD pick (5th RD value), I would riot if I was a KC fan. Even if Coles was valued at a 2nd, the value doesn't match. A Top 5 pick is about the value of two mid-late 1st RD picks.