PDA

View Full Version : AFC North Thread


kalbears13
05-09-2007, 08:50 AM
Talk about the AFC North here.

Quick Prediction:

1) Bengals (11-5)
2) Ravens (10-6)
3) Browns (7-9)
4) Steelers (7-9)

PoopSandwich
05-09-2007, 09:00 AM
I was in the process of making a large thread when you made this one :/

portermvp84
05-09-2007, 09:29 AM
1. Ravens 12-4
2. Bengals 10-6
3. Browns 9-7
4. Steelers 7-9

Bengals1690
05-09-2007, 09:39 AM
i am typing a thingy up right now,

ricky bobby
05-09-2007, 09:43 AM
You forgot the "IT"S BACKKK!!!" part.

Bengals1690
05-09-2007, 10:05 AM
AFC North Preview

Passing Game-
1. Cincinnati Bengals- The Cincinnati Bengals have one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the league in Carson Palmer. They also have one of the top receivers in Chad Johnson, and a great possession guy in TJ Houshmanzadeh. Even with Chris Henry out, the Bengals have the top passing game in the AFC North.
2. Cleveland Browns- This may shock some people, but the Browns have the 2nd best passing game in the AFC North. Charlie Frye is disappointing, but he has all the weapons to be successful. Braylon Edwards, Joe Jurevicious, and Kellen Winslow are a great group for Charlie to throw to. Brady Quinn is also waiting in the wings to be his successor.
3. Pittsburgh Steelers- The Steelers are looking to rebound from a disappointing season last year. They have a decent passing game. Ben Roethlisberger is a good quarterback, but he lacks weapons. Hines Ward is consistent, but the rest of the receiving corps has to pick up some of the slack. If Santonio Holmes develops into a more legitimate deep threat, this team’s passing game will be a force. If not, then it will be there downfall.
4. Baltimore Ravens- If the Ravens have a weakness, it’s in there passing attack. Steve McNair is the perfect type of quarterback for the Ravens. He won’t make many mistakes, but he won’t light up any score boards either. He doesn’t have any top receivers either; his best target is TE Todd Heap. The Ravens are a run first team, and their passing game reflects that/

Rushing Attack
1. Baltimore Ravens- The Ravens picked up stud running back Willis McGahee from the bills, and revamped their offensive line with the draft. Barring a major injury, there is no way this team does not have the best running game in the AFC North, they may have one of the best in all of football.
2. Cincinnati Bengals- The depth of Cincinnati’s running attack sets them apart from the lower half of the division. Rudi Johnson is a workhorse, but they also have change of pace backs like Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, and rookie Kenny Irons.
3. Pittsburgh Steelers- Willie Parker had a great season last year, and is a stud NFL running back. But there is no depth behind him. Najeh Davenport isn’t explosive enough to be the Jerome Bettis-type pile mover that they missed last season. They are playing behind a solid but aging offensive line. But if Parker is injured, this team is in deep trouble.
4. Cleveland Browns- Reuben Droughns wasn’t very successful last year, so they brought in Jamaal Lewis. Trouble is, Jamaal wasn’t successful last year either. I doubt he will rebound from his recent struggles with the Browns behind a offensive line that is in shambles.

Overall Offense
1. Cincinnati Bengals- The Bengals have one of the top offenses in the NFL.
2. Baltimore Ravens- Baltimore may lack in the passing department, but their revamped rushing attack should pick up on the slack.
3. Pittsburgh Steelers- The Steelers aren’t hurting in too many areas, but nobody on offense really scares you other than Willie Parker.
4. Cleveland Browns- The Browns have one of the worst rushing attacks and offensive lines in the country.

Front Seven
1. Baltimore Ravens- The Ravens have arguably one of the best front sevens is the country. Ray Lewis is aging but is still a top NFL MLB. Terrell Suggs is a young stud OLB. Bart Scott, Haloti Ngata, and Trevor Pryce also are above average. The loss of Adaluis Thomas undoubtedly huirst, but the Ravens still have enough talent to make up for it.
2. Pittsburgh Steelers- Pittsburgh’s being ranked this high has less to do with their own goodness and more to do with the division’s weakness. Their 34 defense was great, but it lost its star pass rusher in Joey Porter. Farrior and Larry Foote are still solid, but the Steelers front seven isn’t looking as scary as it usually has this time of year.
3. Cincinnati Bengals- The Bengals front seven improved last season, and things are slowly looking up. LB Ahmad Brooks looks to be solid, Domata Peko is only getting better, and they have one of the best pairs of DE’s in the country with Justin Smith and Robert Geathers. Their lack of stud linebakers hurts though.
4. Cleveland Browns- Kameiron Wimbley, Andra Davis, and Willie McGinest should be solid, but no one else on the front seven really will scare anybody. Cleveland did little to improve its pass rush in the draft, and it will still be one of the team’s Achilles Heels.

Secondary
1. Baltimore Ravens- McAlister, Rolle, Reed, and Landry might just be the best secondary in the nation. Reed is a playmaking ballhawk, and Mcalister is a top 3 CB in the country. The other two guys aren’t two shabby either, and they have another rising star in the secondary in fifth round steal Dawan Landry.
2. Cincinnati Bengals- Jonathon Joseph can stick on receivers like glue, even if he plays patty cake with balls in the air. Deltha Oneal is solid, but Leon Hall should have the starting job by the end of the season. Madieu Williams is one of the most underated players in the game. Dexter Jackson is a question mark, and I excpect Marvin White to take over his job by mid season
3. Pittsburgh Steelers- Ike Taylor was disappointing, but if returns to his 2005 form, this teams secondary will be a force. I don’t see that happening though. The only thing that prevents this team from being last is Troy Polamalu, who, when healthy is a top 5 safety in this league.
4. Cleveland Browns- The Browns have one of the games best kept secrets in safety Sean Jones, who racked up over 100 tackles. But the oft injured Leigh Bodden leaves this team hanging up to dry. He is like Mark Prior, he has the potential to be great but he can’t seem to stay healthy. This team could have a great secondary, and Eric Wright is promising, but tooo many things have to happen for them to be solid.

Overall Defense-
1. Baltimore Ravens- Organized Chaos is easily they best defense in the division.
2. Cincinnati Bengals- The Bengals have promising stars at every position, but the question remains if they can play up to their potential.
3. Pittsburgh Steelers- The Steeler’s defense pales in comparison to the Super Bowl team’s of 2005.
4. Cleveland Browns- No way this team’s defensive questions all get positive answers.

Final Predictions
1 Cincinnati Bengals- 11-5
2. Baltimore Ravens- 11-5
3. Cleveland Brown-6-10
4. Pittsburgh Steelers- 6-10

PalmerToCJ
05-09-2007, 11:07 AM
I'll say...

1. Bengals 12-4
2. Ravens 10-6
3. Steelers 8-8
4. Browns 6-10

1690: I agree with most of your list, although I think the Bengals should be first in rushing, Steelers second and Ravens third. The Bengals get it due to depth over the Steelers who have at this moment who appears to be the best RB in the division.

Also given how much our defense is relying on potential and 'maybes' the Steelers are an easy second in defense.

I'll probably write up a big one later.

keylime_5
05-09-2007, 11:24 AM
Hmmm....
1-Baltimore (11-5)
2-Cincinnati (10-6)
3-Pittsburgh (9-7)
4-Cleveland (7-9)

Baltimore has the best defense in the league. Cincy probably has one of the 2 or 3 best offenses in the league.

Cleveland finally has a decent offensive line with depth and everything, but their running game will only be average with a young rookie starting at QB in all likelyhood.

Pittsburgh has talent on both sides of the ball, but not as much as they did last year. I expect the pass rush to be bad in Pittsburgh but the run defense to be outstanding, while the offense should be better than last year with Parker going to the pro bowl again while Santonio Holmes breaks out and helps Roethlisberger rebound.

keylime_5
05-09-2007, 11:27 AM
As for how each team's units should rank:

Passing Offense:
1-Cincinnati
2-PIttsburgh
3-Cleveland (I think Quinn is ready to start as a rookie and let Edwards/WInslow make plays)
4-Baltimore

Rushing Offense:
1-Pittsburgh
2-Cincinnati
3-Baltimore
4-Cleveland

Overall Offense:
1-Cincinnati
2-Pittsburgh
3-Baltimore
4-Cleveland

Passing Defense:
1-Baltimore
2-Cleveland (yes their pass defense is actually pretty decent, Mel Tucker great DBs coach)
3-Pittsburgh
4-Cincinnati

Rush Defense:
1-Pittsburgh
2-Baltimore
3-Cincinnati (lousy against run)
4-Cleveland (very lousy against run)

Overall Defense:
1-Baltimore
2-Pittsburgh
3-CLeveland (very underrated unit, Crennel actually gets them to overachieve)
4-Cincinnati

mikehop05
05-09-2007, 01:11 PM
i say...

Bengals 10 - 6
Steelers 10 - 6
Ravens 9 - 7
Browns 4 - 12

The teams will do well outside of their conference, especially playing the NFL's JV team... I mean the NFC west. But inside the conference the teams will beat each other up.

Other Predictions:

McNair misses 4 - 6 weeks with injury (thus the Ravens struggles).
Bengals again have great offense, but their lack of defense hurts them again.
Brady Quinn is the starter after the browns are out of playoff contention, and playing with nothing to lose the Brown's actually start to look decent enough for Romeo to keep his job for one more year.
Ben doesn't get into a motorcycle accident, however,
A guy who pretended to be Ben, Did (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2860426&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos2) and gave the city of Pittsburgh another heart attack.

Paul
05-09-2007, 01:24 PM
i say...

Bengals 10 - 6
Steelers 10 - 6
Ravens 9 - 7
Browns 4 - 12



God I hope your right on that part.

niel89
05-09-2007, 01:26 PM
McNair misses 4 - 6 weeks with injury (thus the Ravens struggles).


some would say the ravens are better off with kyle boller

bigbluedefense
05-09-2007, 01:55 PM
I'll chime in on this later. I wish we had more fans from this division on here. Id love to hear more thoughts on it.

PalmerToCJ
05-09-2007, 01:57 PM
some would say the ravens are better off with kyle boller

haha Bollermania is alive and well, I can actually see that arguement (at least I don't feel they lose much with Boller out there).

Whoever said the Bengals run D is horrible... It isn't. We were top half of the league in run D last year, our biggest problem was that Tory James was out there 'covering' WR's and it seemed like we had new guys starting at LB every week.

I have a VERY hard time believing the Ravens top the Bengals in the division. This is not saying the Ravens are not the same talent as the Bengals, that's not the case. It's just that our two additional games are @TEN and KC while theirs are @SD and IND, that's a big difference there and the Bengals really couldn't have had much more go against them this year than they did last year while the Ravens had most everything go their way, especially in terms of health.

Either way I expect Cincinnati and Baltimore in the playoffs, I'm not sure what to expect out of Pittsburgh though.

It'll never happen, but it would be AMAZING if Odell Thurman was allowed to contribute next year. I'm hoping about midseason he earns his spot back or moves to WLB since Ahmad is in the middle.

SeanTaylorRIP
05-09-2007, 02:09 PM
I'll do a big writeup when I have time, but the Ravens are the class of the division. Arguably the best defense and special teams in the NFL is backed up by a solid veteran QB in Steve McNair, an elite TE Todd Heap, a pro bowler in the making Mark Clayton as well as a former pro bowler Derrick Mason and rising star Demetrius Williams, and their line has potential for greatness and at the very least solid.

PoopSandwich
05-09-2007, 02:26 PM
This is copied from my thread that got locked that I made when this one was made I guess.

Well since there is an NFC East and someone wanted an AFC North one I figured I might as well do it.

Run Game - This is the trickiest thing in the AFC North to rank just because of all of the uncertainties. Is Chris Perry going to be healthy? Will the Browns o-line hold up, can Jamal Lewis return to his own form? Will McGahee emerge as a top 5 back in Baltimore, will Fast Willie Parker run wild this year?

1. Pittsburgh Steelers - Like I said this is a tough thing to rank, but Pittsburgh is known for running the ball and Willie Parker is a homerun hitter. He may not be the biggest of guys, but he has a decent offense around him, I was tempted to put the Bengals in the slot but I don't know if Chris Perry will be there to back up Rudi Johnson.

2. Cincinnati Bengals - Rudi Johnson is on a team that has a top 5 passing attack in the league, even though they lost Chris Henry for half a year, the pass will open up the run game, and the run will open up the pass. If Chris Perry does manage to come back and play to the level I think he can, this team will have a great run game.

3. Baltimore Ravens - Adding a rookie left guard (Who I respect and like) to replace Mulitalo was a good move, but Ogden is getting older and doesn't play at the level he used to. I really think McGahee is a good back, but the line isn't good enough in my mind to put them above the Bengals.

4. Cleveland Browns - Just not enough to rank them ahead of anyone, their o-line should be a ton better this year, but no one knows if Jamal Lewis will be back to what he used to be.

Passing Game

1. Cincinnati Bengals - There is no explanation needed here, they have one of the best passing games in the league with CJ and TJ and with Palmer throwing them the ball. When Chris Henry gets back look out NFL.

2. Pittsburgh Steelers - I Don't believe that the passing game for the Steelers is too great, but they have Ward, Holmes, and Miller with Roethlisberger throwing the ball. If Ben can stay healthy all year I think they will have a consistant year throwing the ball.

3. Cleveland Browns - This could be #2 but the question marks are too large to put them ahead of Pittsburgh. Winslow and Edwards are both coming into their own, the problem is no one knows who is going to be throwing them the ball. Frye or Quinn, it could be good, or it could be really bad.

4. Baltimore Ravens - I don't have any more faith in Steve McNair, and the only target I really trust is Todd Heap, so this is why they are ranked last.

Run Defense

1. Baltimore Ravens - They have tremendous speed and size in their front seven, not to mention DB's who are willing to come up and help stop the run.

2. Pittsburgh Steelers - Even though they lost a great player in Porter they got 2 rookies that I believe can have an impact from the first game, I rank them ahead of the Browns/Bengals poor defense.

3. Cincinatti Bengals - Pollack and Thurman probably wont play this year ( I haven't heard otherwise ) so I believe their front 7 is in trouble.

4. Cleveland Browns - Good linebackers, very questionable D-Line.

Pass Defense

1. Baltimore Ravens - Ed Reed, Chris McCalister, Landry, Samari Rolle... The only weak link is Rolle here, I give the Ravens my #1 spot.

2. Cleveland Browns - Big surprise maybe? Leigh Bodden is my boy and a shut down corner in my mind, Eric Wright should start day one, he may get abused early in the season, but I think he turns out to be a good player THIS year. Sean Jones is a stud and could have made the pro-bowl last year. Brodney Pool is the biggest question mark and he has been deemed the best athelte on our team, so I hope he lives up to the hype.

3. Pittsburgh Steelers - Not great but not bad.

4. Cincinnati Bengals - The big question here is whether or not Leon Hall can contribute from game 1.

Special Teams

1. Cleveland Browns
2. Baltimore Ravens
3. Pittsburgh Steelers
4. Cincinnati Bengals

Place in the division

1. Ravens
2. Bengals
3. Steelers
4. Browns

I don't like posting records this far away from the season, but thats how I see the division panning out.

Like the other guy I ran out of time towards the end and have to go, tear it apart and have fun

neko4
05-09-2007, 02:31 PM
1) Cincy
2) Baltimore
3) Pittsburgh
4) Cleveland
This division will have the best combined record out of division

SeanTaylorRIP
05-09-2007, 02:37 PM
I don't know why the Ravens are worse than the Browns in the passing game. Te's Winslow isn't that much better than Heap and Heap is more consistent and gets more TD's. Mark Clayton who had 1,000 yards last year is Derrick Mason in the making and they have Derrick Mason too as well as young gun Demetrius Williams and hopefully Yamon Figurs could do something. Lastly I'd take McNair or even Boller for that fact over Frye and day as well as over Quinn, I expect Quinn to have high INT numbers and inconsistency problems as all rookie QB's do, plus I didn't have Quinn as that super prospect.

mikehop05
05-09-2007, 02:41 PM
I'll do a big writeup when I have time, but the Ravens are the class of the division. Arguably the best defense and special teams in the NFL is backed up by a solid veteran QB in Steve McNair, an elite TE Todd Heap, a pro bowler in the making Mark Clayton as well as a former pro bowler Derrick Mason and rising star Demetrius Williams, and their line has potential for greatness and at the very least solid.
what about their line is so great??, i see a lot of young guys who were good in college, but havnt done much yet in the pros

ogden is the best one on the line, and he almost didnt comeback this year... he's old

adam terry will moat likely have to step in as you all lost pasos, and he is relatively new in starting on the line

who will the guards be?
grubbs.. a rookie

brown who again is youing and unproven or
vincent who is solid, but nothing to write home about

then you got chester at center, again is young and unproven

im not going to say your line is bad by anymeans, and yes it can eventually be a good line, but you have really a new line, how can that not be a question mark for you all?

bearsfan_51
05-09-2007, 02:48 PM
Hmmm....
1-Baltimore (11-5)
2-Cincinnati (10-6)
3-Pittsburgh (9-7)
4-Cleveland (7-9)

It's almost inconcievable for a division to be five games over .500 collectively with the way the schedule is set up. I highlly doubt all four teams' records will be that good.

In fact, since the new schedule came out in 2002 it hasn't happened yet. 4 games above .500 happens once every year or every other year, but with the strength of the AFC I don't see it this year. In fact last year the highest any division was above .500 was 2 games.

steelernation77
05-09-2007, 03:37 PM
Just to address a few things regarding the steelers:
From what I see here, I can gather that people have identified a few similar weakness with the team, namely the pass rush, the pass defense, offensive weapons and RB depth.

1. The pass rush
I honestly believe the pass rush will be much improved this year even with the loss of Porter. Porter and Haggans were sluggish last year and it was obvious that their age was starting to catch up to them. The coaches have made a commitment to improving this as evident in our first two selections. Expect Timmons and Woodley to see lots of action in pass rushing situations with Woodley coming off the end either with his hand or off the ground and Timmons lined up in a wider variety of positions. Rookie linebackers have been shown to be able to make an immediate impact as pass rushers and I believe that the new youth at the position will be like a shock for our pass rush and greatly increase our ability to get after the quarterback which in turn will help our...

2. Pass defense
True, Taylor had a sub-par year last year but the guy had a solid year in 2005 and has all the physical tools he needs to be a solid cover corner. Mike Tomlin has a history of improving young CBs (including Ronde Barber) and I think that under his tutelage, Taylor could do good things. Opposite him, look for Bryant McFadden to take over for an aging Deshea Townsend and bring with him a swagger in to the position. McFadden has shown very promising ability and like Taylor I believe he will improve under Tomlin. The real wild card in this secondary is whether Anthony Smith will take over for Ryan Clark right away at FS. Clark was solid last year but unspectacular while Anthony Smith has quickly emerged as a fan favorite and has shown the ability to both be a ballhawk and level receivers over the middle. However, he did make some mistakes in coverage last year but that is to be expected from a rookie. Plus he did a high-steppin boombox.

3. Offensive weapons
The two most intriguing stories for the Steelers' passing game this year could be the development of Santonio Holmes and the new roles of the TEs. Santonio had a very solid rookie season amassing over 800 yards even though he did not see siginificant PT much of the beginnning of the season. This year I look for him to have a break out season and emerge as a very solid compliment to Hines on his way to becoming a legitimate number one in the coming years. Heath Miller has shown that he can be a very solid receiving TE but under Cowher the TE has not seen many opportunities since Eric Green. The new o-coordinator Bruce Arians has made a commitment to running more multiple TE sets which will allow Heath to do many different things including splitting out wide. While some may see this as just talk, I believe Arians cemented his commitment to this new scheme with the selection of Matt Spaeth in the third round. Spaeth is a solid receiver and lined up with Miller he will give the Steelers two big 6-5 and 6-7 TEs with reliable hands that could do wonders in the red zone.

4. RB depth
Its common knowledge that the Steelers don't have much behind Willie but the team didn't feel like there was a RB worth taking when they selected in the draft. Instead, they signed a couple UDFA RBs including Gary Russell, who if motivated, could prove to be a steal in a couple years. Apparently he's already down to 217, which is a promising sign being that he was 230 at the combine. In the short term, its been widely reported that the Steelers are close to signing Kevan Barlow to a one year deal. He could be a solid back-up to Willie this year. With Parker, Barlow, and Davenport, the Steelers could have some solid depth for this year and the team could look to add another young back in next year's depth.

So those are my opinions on some of the weaknesses that people have addressed.
However, my main concern with the team this year is the line's ability to protect Ben in the pocket, something that they did a very poor job of last year. Hartings retired, and while he was solid for many years, he played too long on those old knees and could not handle big NTs. I think that Mahan, while unspectacular, will be an upgrade over Hartings in pass blocking and if a big mauler like Chris Kemoeatu or Willie Colon takes over for Kendall Simmons, they could do a much better job helping the center deal with big interior lineman than Simmons did last year. On the outsides, Max Starks was a typical Russ Grimm o-lineman, huge and sluggish, and Marvel Smith is better suited at RT. Willie Colon, although I feel he would make a better G, could possibly take over for Starks at RT and would show a nasty demenor that Starks lacks. I think the biggest upgrade the team made to their pass protection this year was the commitment to multiple TE sets. With extra TEs on the field it could cause opposing teams LBs to have to drop back into coverage instead off all out blitzing like they did much of last year.

So these are just a few of my thoughts on the Steelers this year, take them as you will.

ccB
05-09-2007, 04:44 PM
what about their line is so great??, i see a lot of young guys who were good in college, but havnt done much yet in the pros

ogden is the best one on the line, and he almost didnt comeback this year... he's old

adam terry will moat likely have to step in as you all lost pasos, and he is relatively new in starting on the line

who will the guards be?
grubbs.. a rookie

brown who again is youing and unproven or
vincent who is solid, but nothing to write home about

then you got chester at center, again is young and unproven

im not going to say your line is bad by anymeans, and yes it can eventually be a good line, but you have really a new line, how can that not be a question mark for you all?

Brown and Chester both got a considerable amount of playing time last year. Alot of people are saying we downgraded with the loss of Edwin Mulitalo last year but he didnt even play most of the year.

bored of education
05-09-2007, 05:14 PM
I really think Pittsburgh gonna win this Division. Cinncy and Baltimore 9-10 win area and Browns 4-6 wins.

Ravens1991
05-09-2007, 05:20 PM
LT- Ogden is coming off of a pro bowl year, I definetly think he will do well but maybe not pro bowl quality
LG- Jason Brown had a lot of improvment and gain expierence, I think he can play around Mulatalos level at LG
C- Ask ERU, Chester will probably be a improvment over Flynn
RG- Vincent isnt that great, Vincent used on a lot of pulls so I think Grubbs will accell at RG
RT-This is tough and up in the air because Terry is a converted LT.

America
05-09-2007, 06:56 PM
I don't feel like going into specifics in terms of records but Cinci and Baltimore should duke it out for 1st place and then Cleveland and Pittsburgh should be going for 3rd. On paper, that's how it all looks. Everyone except Cleveland has a pretty good running game. Cleveland has a pretty solid line, but Jamal is just trash. Big Ben will determine much of the Steeler's success. If he can be the efficient play he used to be, they are almost a lock for a record over .500. Injuries will happen and screw some team unfortunately. I like Cinci's offense, but I still don't like their D, they give up too many points and arent the same as they were in 05 in terms of turnovers. They will be able to replace Steinbach and Irons should be a big play threat. The loss of Henry will hurt for those first 8 games. They need a TE to step it up or Perry to come back to provide that missing production. Their Dline is still not great at run stopping, although they have significantly improved, and Peko was great. They lost some proven vets on D and will have trouble replacing their leadership. Raven's O is questionable, but Grubbs will solidify that left side and Ogden, despite not being as great as he used to, is still one of the better lineman in the league. Brown who started 12 games last year will start at the other guard and vet Mike Flynn will most likely start out as the C. Only question mark is how well Terry makes the transition from LT to RT. Other than that, they have good weapons and a servicable backup Qb in case McNair gets hurt. And their D should be good again. Steelers have to pass protect better and the C position is up in the air. They added good youth to the D thru the draft. Kevin Barlow will be a good addition to the backfield. Their corners have to step it up. Their D is still 3-4 but did not play as well last season against the pass in general and were lacking in big plays. Very inconsistant. Browns have good depth on the DL, but not a bigtime playmaker. Wimbley will become a great player and they have other good LBs. Their secondary is good. Sean Jones is very underrated and Brodney Poole is solid. If Baxter and Bodden return well from injuries and don't get hurt again, they'll have a solid pass defense. And Winslow and Edwards aren’t making the big plays they need, plus they have too much youth at QB.

Bohleive
05-09-2007, 07:37 PM
what about their line is so great??, i see a lot of young guys who were good in college, but havnt done much yet in the pros

ogden is the best one on the line, and he almost didnt comeback this year... he's old

adam terry will moat likely have to step in as you all lost pasos, and he is relatively new in starting on the line

who will the guards be?
grubbs.. a rookie

brown who again is youing and unproven or
vincent who is solid, but nothing to write home about

then you got chester at center, again is young and unproven

im not going to say your line is bad by anymeans, and yes it can eventually be a good line, but you have really a new line, how can that not be a question mark for you all?

As someone already said, all these guys you're calling inexperienced other than Grubbs saw significant action last year. The whole thread is premised in speculation and a logical person would speculate that our line will be improved next season.
Do you really think Grubbs won't be an upgrade? If so you've obviously never seen or interior OL play. Flynn=worst center in football, so anyone, Chester, Brown, whoever, will be an upgrade there. Terry is at least as good a talent as Pashos who was no more than average, and he's had three years now to get comfortable with playing on the right side. Our OL will be better, there's no question about it, barring injury.

EdReedUnstoppable
05-09-2007, 07:40 PM
Should McNair stay healthy and play all year then the division looks like this...

1. Cincinnati
2. Pittsburgh
3. Baltimore
4. Cleveland

If McNair misses some games and we get a chance to have Kyle in there getting the ball downfield to our playmakers in Clayton and DWill then...

1. Cincinnati
2. Baltimore
3. Pittsburgh
4. Cleveland

PalmerToCJ
05-09-2007, 07:42 PM
I like Cinci's offense, but I still don't like their D, they give up too many points and arent the same as they were in 05 in terms of turnovers. They will be able to replace Steinbach and Irons should be a big play threat. The loss of Henry will hurt for those first 8 games. They need a TE to step it up or Perry to come back to provide that missing production. Their Dline is still not great at run stopping, although they have significantly improved, and Peko was great. They lost some proven vets on D and will have trouble replacing their leadership.

Most of this is spot on for the Bengals. Losing Henry does hurt, he's such a weapon on this offense.

Losing Brian Simmons on D hurts from a leadership standpoint but not a play standpoint and Tory James was a locker room cancer who couldn't play on the field.

Our interior D line was great against the run last year. Where we struggled was off the ends and when our LB's had to bring the guys down. Once a RB got off the edge and into the LB's area that's when tackles weren't made. I'm hoping we'll get some stability out of the LB's last year. For something like 6 straight weeks the LB's had a different alignment last year (Caleb Miller, Ahmad Brooks, Landon Johnson, Brian Simmons, Rashad Jeanty, David Pollack all started at some point and many at multiple positions).

Deltha O'Neal was PO'd last year with his contract situation. The Oline got paid and he didn't, most of us believe he's one of the 'selfish' players Marvin pointed out at the end of last year. If/When Leon Hall shows he can play near Delthas level he will start.

Johnathan Joseph, Ahmad Brooks and Madieu Williams really need to step it up next year. If they can manage that the defense can be adequate enough when accompanied with our offense to be a serious force. Joseph needs to learn how to catch at least 1/4 of the balls he gets his hands on, Brooks needs to mature and become a playmaker to an extent at MLB and Madieu Williams needs to play at the level he did in '05 before hurting his shoulder. Madieu was the charge in our defense but last year he was merely above average, he just didn't play at the level he did before being hurt in '05.

Bottom line is our defense is full of potential but the guys have a long way to go before it is reached. Robert Geathers, Ahmad Brooks, Madieu Williams, Johnathan Joseph, Domata Peko and Rashad Jeanty all have high ceilings... Our defense is really banking on at least a few of them to grow a great deal next year. That's a lot to ask for.

Our offense will be better than it was last year. Believe it or not Carson really didn't play to the level he can reach last year. The addition of Irons is big for our running game. Marvin likes the 2 back systems and Rudi really needed a change of pace guy last year to break things up. Having Levi Jones back is massive and although the injuries slaughtered the Oline last year it has strengthened them in terms of depth and the ability to adapt to new lineups.

I fully expect the offense to improve and I expect the defense to improve as well... To what extent I'm not sure.

bored of education
05-09-2007, 07:48 PM
I remember Kyle Boller, ERU, I remember.

BengalsPwn
05-09-2007, 07:58 PM
My predictions record wise:

1. Bengals - 12-4
2. Ravens - 10-6
3. Steelers - 8-8
4. Browns - 3-13

PoopSandwich
05-09-2007, 08:18 PM
My predictions record wise:

1. Bengals - 12-4
2. Ravens - 10-6
3. Steelers - 8-8
4. Browns - 3-13

If the Browns go 3-13 I will make my signature say "The Browns suck and are the worst Franchise in NFL history"

Thats how sure I am it won't happen.

mikehop05
05-09-2007, 08:25 PM
As someone already said, all these guys you're calling inexperienced other than Grubbs saw significant action last year. The whole thread is premised in speculation and a logical person would speculate that our line will be improved next season.
Do you really think Grubbs won't be an upgrade? If so you've obviously never seen or interior OL play. Flynn=worst center in football, so anyone, Chester, Brown, whoever, will be an upgrade there. Terry is at least as good a talent as Pashos who was no more than average, and he's had three years now to get comfortable with playing on the right side. Our OL will be better, there's no question about it, barring injury.

well due to your outrageous optimism, i really hope you are right

but due to me being a steeler fan, i really really hope you are wrong

Number 10
05-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Cincinnati--11-5
Baltimore--10-6
Pittsburgh--7-9
Cleveland--6-10

PalmerToCJ
05-09-2007, 08:26 PM
Ahhh, I thought you were a Bollermania member ERU haha

I'm not sure Boller would be a big upgrade but I honestly don't think he'd hurt the offense.

keylime_5
05-09-2007, 08:39 PM
Here's what I think the starting rosters will be on paper at this point, so you guys can compare them in one glance instead of thinking about last season:

Baltimore
QB-Steve McNair_______DE-Trevor Pryce
RB-Willis McGahee______DT-Kelly Gregg
FB-Justin Green________DT-Haloti Ngata
WR-Derrick Mason______DE-Terrell Suggs
WR-Mark Clayton______ SLB-Jarrett Johnson
TE-Todd Heap_________MLB-Ray Lewis
LT-Jonathan Ogden_____WLB-Bart Scott
LG-Jason Brown________LCB-Chris McAlister
C-Chris Chester________RCB-Samari Rolle
RG-Ben Grubbs_________FS-Ed Reed
RT-Adam Terry________SS-Dawan Landry

Cincinnati
QB-Carson Palmer______DE-Bryan Robinson
RB-Rudi Johnson_______DT-Sam Adams
FB-Jeremi Johnson_____DT-John Thornton
WR-Chad Johnson______DE-Justin Smith
WR-TJ Houshmandzadeh_SLB-Rashad Jeanty
TE-Reggie Kelly________MLB-Ahmad Brooks
LT-Levi Jones_________WLB-Edgerton Hartwell
LG-Andrew Whitworth__LCB-Johnathan Joseph
C-Eric Ghiaciuc________RCB-Deltha O'Neal
RG-Bobbie Williams_____FS-Madieu WIlliams
RT-Willie Anderson_____SS-Dexter Jackson

Pittsburgh
QB-Ben Roethlisberger__DE-Aaron Smith
RB-Willie Parker_______NT-Casey Hampton
FB-Dan Kreider_______DE-Brett Kiesel
WR-Hines Ward_______LOLB-Clark Haggans
WR-Santonio Holmes___LILB-James Farrior
TE-Heath Miller_______RILB-Larry Foote
LT-Marvel Smith______ROLB-Lawrence Timmons
LG-Alan Faneca_______LCB-Ike Taylor
C-Sean Mahan_______RCB-Bryant McFadden
RG-Kendall Simmons____FS-Ryan Clark
RT-Max Starks________SS-Troy Polamalu

Cleveland
QB-Brady Quinn________DE-Orpheus Roye
RB-Jamal Lewis________NT-Ted Washington
FB-Lawrence Vickers___DE-Robaire Smith
WR-Braylon Edwards___LOLB-WIllie McGinest
WR-Joe Jurevicius_____LILB-Andra Davis
TE-Kellen Winslow_____RILB-D'Qwell Jackson
LT-Joe Thomas_______ROLB-Kamerion Wimbley
LG-Eric Steinbach_____LCB-Leigh Bodden
C-Hank Fraley________RCB-Eric Wright
RG-Ryan Tucker_______FS-Brodney Pool
RT-Kevin Shaffer______SS-Sean Jones

PalmerToCJ
05-09-2007, 08:42 PM
The Bengals is mostly correct. I REALLY hope John Thornton doesn't start. I'd really like to see Domata Peko in there, he was our best DT last year anyway but Thornton started for some stupid reason.

Brian Robinson may start at DE but hopefully Robert Geathers can be a 3 down guy.

PoopSandwich
05-09-2007, 08:44 PM
Browns always look at least good on paper, they never let it transition to the field though...

mikehop05
05-09-2007, 08:49 PM
for pitt i think anthony smith starts over clark

Xonraider
05-09-2007, 08:54 PM
Cincinnati Bengals ::: 10-6
Solid team, very impressive offense and I think they will be able to replace Steinbach and not suffer much. Leon Hall will not only replace Tory, but will be an improvement over him. Their Linebackers are not really impressive. Hartwell is not all that great, and has been injured for many games this past couple of years. Earl Everret, who was signed via UDFA, could be a nice back-up for the team, he is the UDFA I'll keep my eye on this year. If Hartwell is kept healthy and performs well, same goes to Ahmad Brooks, this team could be good. Their defensive line is nothing impressive either, IMO.

Even though the team has taken a league, they had two really close games towards the end of the season (including that Denver one no one likes to talk about) but if their defense improves and their offense is consistent, I see them winning the division.

Baltimore Ravens ::: 9-7.
The team has the talent for more.. that is for sure, but I don't see them putting it together consitently. Steve McNair is not the playmaker he used to be. He isnow washed up, and not good enough for his team. The Ravens will rely heavily on McGahee on offense, and since they lost Mulitalo and Mughelli, I don't see him being able to dominate. With this being said, their defense will hold the responsability of winning/keeping them in the games. They lost Adalius and that is going to be a pretty big hit to the team. Lewis' is a good player, but is declining with age. The rest of the defense is simply dominant... which is why they'll win 9 games. Have McNair do good, they can easily win 10 or even 11 games.

Pittsburgh Steelers ::: 8-8
I think they could be better than this. The OL isn't exactly great, but it's decent, and most of the players are on their prime. Big Ben is back, and hopefully healthy. Santonio Holmes has a season under his belt and Hines Ward is not exactly old and Wilson is a decent WR. Willie Parker is a very good RB, and he has Davenport to take in the short yardage situations.

Right now what I am thinking could go wrong are two things.
One of them is the defense taking an overall step back. Losing Joey Porter was very big for him, and Timmons won't fill his shoes this season. I am not a really big fan of Deshea Townsend either. I think he may be the weak spot of the defense.
What I also didn't like was hiring Mike Tomlin as a head coach. I don't see why he deserved a job over some other guys... again, I could be wrong, but I don't know if Tomlin was a good hire for the Steelers.

Cleveland Browns ::: 5-11
Quinn won't be put into a really favorable situation. Jamal Lewis isn't a solid back anymore, Jurevicious has his time in the league, and Braylon himself can't be the only receiver. I think Winslow may be the biggest threat this team could show on offense this year. Steinbach is a nice OG, Thomas could be solid from day 1, but the rest is not as good.

Their defense will be lead by Wimbley and Davis, two solid defensive linemen. Pool and Jones may be a nice couple of safeties out there, but Teddy W. is way old, so is McGinnest... To be honest, I don't like this team very much, the the future may be bright.. with players like Brady Quinn, Joe Thomas, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow, Rodney Pool, Sean Jones and Kamerion Wimbley. If they draft Jake Long, Sam Baker or Darren McFadden, and build up more next offseason, watch out for the Browns.

keylime_5
05-09-2007, 08:59 PM
Well Long and Baker and McFadden are all top 15 picks, and Cleveland's first pick next year will probably be somewhere around #40. But one of the Felix Jones, James Davis, Steve Slaton, and Jonathan Stewart group will definitely be available at that pick next draft. But let's not discuss 2008, let's think about 2007 instead.

Ravens1991
05-09-2007, 09:16 PM
can I get other team fans view beside baltimore, who do you think is the better QB, McNair or Boller?

Chucky
05-09-2007, 09:26 PM
I really think BOller is a lost cause, but thats just me, i think Mcnair might be servicable at the most for the next year, but i wouldnt rely on him for any more than that. I think they should really considering spending a 1st round pick on QB next year.

Ravens1991
05-09-2007, 09:29 PM
I think the FO may actually like Troy Smith as the future.

cunningham06
05-09-2007, 09:31 PM
Here's the order in which I expect the AFC North teams to finish.

1. Ravens- One of if not the most athletic defenses in the NFL, this is an extremely talented group. Plus the addition of McGahee will improve the running game. I expect McGahee to have a better season than last, maybe all he needed was a change of scenery. He's certainly an improvement over Jamal Lewis who seems to have lost all burst and quickness.
2. Cincinatti- Great offense, but I just don't buy the defense. The defensive line and LB corps seem weak, so I expect Cinci to have a weak run defense this season. Having a weak run defense vs. Baltimore with McGahee could turn out in two losses for the Bengals.
3. Steelers- They will probably rebound from last season, but won't improve by that much. The secondary as a whole seems pretty suspect. Polamalu is great but you need more than one great player in the secondary. I really like the front 7 and versatility that the Steelers will have by being able to switch from 4-3 to 3-4 at will. This team is a wildcard to win the division, we'll see how they do.
4. Browns- I like the improvements the Browns have made, but just don't see them beating out any of the teams in this division. The offense for the Browns will probably be a lot better than expected. This offense has the franchise LT and QB, a really good TE, and a so far undeachieving WR who could just need the right arm to throw to him. The defensive unit while unspectacular is solid.

cunningham06
05-09-2007, 09:36 PM
can I get other team fans view beside baltimore, who do you think is the better QB, McNair or Boller?

McNair easily, Boller is awful. Mentally he can't handle the game, he just loses his cool and makes really stupid mistakes. He has a strong arm but is inaccurate. He almost never covers up the ball when getting sacked, and as a result fumbles a lot. He has absolutely no leadership ability, and probably won't be able to inspire his teammates. He has shown little to no improvement, his career has remained stagnant since he came into the NFL.

McNair at least you know what you're going to get, with Boller you don't know. The team could be up by a touchdown, but then BAM a bonehead play like only Boller can make resulting in a TD for the other team and a tie game. McNair is slipping and there needs to be an upgrade, but he is better than Boller. Troy Smith is an interesting option, I look forward to watching him in preseason.

keylime_5
05-09-2007, 09:39 PM
I think the FO may actually like Troy Smith as the future.

And rightfully so, he's the best QB in this draft. The kid is 6', SO WHAT?!? Drew Brees is 6' but wasn't as good in college and doesn't have as strong of an arm. And sitting for 2 years behind Steve McNair will only make him a better player.

cunningham06
05-09-2007, 09:47 PM
And rightfully so, he's the best QB in this draft. The kid is 6', SO WHAT?!? Drew Brees is 6' but wasn't as good in college and doesn't have as strong of an arm. And sitting for 2 years behind Steve McNair will only make him a better player.

True, but Drew Brees is amazingly accurate, Troy Smith isn't bad but he isn't on Brees level accuracy wise.

America
05-09-2007, 09:54 PM
Here's the order in which I expect the AFC North teams to finish.

1. Ravens- One of if not the most athletic defenses in the NFL, this is an extremely talented group. Plus the addition of McGahee will improve the running game. I expect McGahee to have a better season than last, maybe all he needed was a change of scenery. He's certainly an improvement over Jamal Lewis who seems to have lost all burst and quickness.
2. Cincinatti- Great offense, but I just don't buy the defense. The defensive line and LB corps seem weak, so I expect Cinci to have a weak run defense this season. Having a weak run defense vs. Baltimore with McGahee could turn out in two losses for the Bengals.
3. Steelers- They will probably rebound from last season, but won't improve by that much. The secondary as a whole seems pretty suspect. Polamalu is great but you need more than one great player in the secondary. I really like the front 7 and versatility that the Steelers will have by being able to switch from 4-3 to 3-4 at will. This team is a wildcard to win the division, we'll see how they do.
4. Browns- I like the improvements the Browns have made, but just don't see them beating out any of the teams in this division. The offense for the Browns will probably be a lot better than expected, I like what they've got in the running game. While not having a marquee back, they have a very versatile one-two punch in Jamal Lewis and Kenny Irons. Jamal runs with power but lacks quickness. Kenny Irons is extremely quick. I'm sure the Browns will come up with many inventive ways to use both of them. This offense has the franchise LT and QB, a really good TE, and a so far undeachieving WR who could just need the right arm to throw to him. The defensive unit while unspectacular is solid.

Kenny Irons is a Bengal.

steelernation77
05-09-2007, 09:59 PM
After reading all the posts on here its pretty obvious that no one attempted to read my post at all. While it is long, it may provide a better insight to the steelers than some of these posts that clearly don't demonstrate an understanding of the team at this point.

Xonraider
05-09-2007, 10:27 PM
Well Long and Baker and McFadden are all top 15 picks, and Cleveland's first pick next year will probably be somewhere around #40. But one of the Felix Jones, James Davis, Steve Slaton, and Jonathan Stewart group will definitely be available at that pick next draft. But let's not discuss 2008, let's think about 2007 instead.

Big mistake on that part.. I forgot they gave up their next years pick.
Guess thats what happens when you don't watch all of the draft.

cunningham06
05-09-2007, 11:18 PM
Kenny Irons is a Bengal.

Whoops fixed it.

America
05-09-2007, 11:19 PM
Whoops fixed it.

Good deal. The Brown's really don't have a backup to Jamal Lewis. When he starts sucking, they'll realize they are screwed.

PalmerToCJ
05-09-2007, 11:22 PM
I was PO'd when the Ravens released him because I realized he was one of if not the weakest link they had. He sure went downhill in a hurry.

cunningham06
05-09-2007, 11:24 PM
Yea it was wierd how he got so bad so fast. Either too much weightlifting and got too swole to be quick, or to much "shower time" in prison affected his running style.

mikehop05
05-10-2007, 01:08 AM
After reading all the posts on here its pretty obvious that no one attempted to read my post at all. While it is long, it may provide a better insight to the steelers than some of these posts that clearly don't demonstrate an understanding of the team at this point.

its straight... teams/people are underestimating the steelers right now and thats fine, we'll "surprise" em all come spet / oct / nov... and we'll sit back and tell em...

i told ya so

again

steelers 10-6
bengals 10 - 6
ravens 9-7
browns 4 - 12

niel89
05-10-2007, 01:29 AM
its straight... teams/people are underestimating the steelers right now and thats fine, we'll "surprise" em all come spet / oct / nov... and we'll sit back and tell em...

i told ya so

again

steelers 10-6
bengals 10 - 6
ravens 9-7
browns 4 - 12

losing to the raiders will do that:rolleyes:

Mr. Stiller
05-10-2007, 01:30 AM
I think people are underselling the Steelers a bit.

I'm not saying we'll win the division, but I think that we're the underdog and the last time that happened we went as a #6 seed and won the superbowl.

I'll give you a run down per position so maybe you guys will get some better perspective.

Offense:

Ben had a poor season and I'm not making excuses, he sucked. However, we are using a more Indy-Style oriented offense, which is going to help excel our passing and running game. He streamlined the playbook and it's supposed to keep everyone on the same page.

QB:

We have arguably the best depth at QB in the AFC.. and possibly the NFL. I Can't think of 1 guy that is a better backup QB other than Charlie Batch. Ben has been putting tons of input in with Arians, has been studying non-stop and has been working with WR's in the offseason.. which is something he's never done. When he's in the zone, he's a top 3 QB in QB Rating. He was Top 5 his rookie season and top 3 his Soph season. Last year he was horrendous. However now, he's also calling his own protections.. What is going to motivate him more to save his own ass then calling his own protections?

RB:

Willie Parker was the #3 RB in the NFL last year.. the top 3 were in the AFC. I don't like the amount of Carries he had, and I don't like how early we abandoned the run early on the road. The new offense will spread the defense out a lot more and allow Willies elusiveness to really shine. As for depth? We have Najeh Davenport who is an Excellent ST return man, a solid 3rd down back and pass blocker. However he's injury prone. We have 2 UDFA's which I have high hopes for. In Russells short time at Minnesota he outplayed Laurence Maroney. If he returns to form, that'll be our second UDFA Steal at RB. As for Mosley, from Baylor. He's a 6'2 240lb Short Yardage Specialist and I thought he'd be our Short Yardage guy. However, on Wednesday we signed Kevan Barlow.

Now I know there's going to be crap about "Barlow Sucks" and He's never had a great season since his 1,000 yard season.. but he's coming to a perfect situation.. He's coming to a former Power running team, that still has the power running line. He may have had a 2.8 ypc average last year, but he was a short yardage specialist.. I'm excited, Barlow and Davenport give us 2 solid "bigger" guys that are solid blockers and receivers at RB.

FB:

Dan Kreider is one of the most underrated FB in the league. We also have John Kuhn and Aaron Robbins (We lost Gijon Robinson, who would've been a great weapon at FB).

WR:

With us using more 3-4 WR sets.. we're pretty set at WR. Hines Ward is either the #1 or #2 WR in the AFCN, Santonio Holmes was a beast last year and actually won us the game to knock the Bengals out of the playoffs last year. I think this year with a better grasp of the offense he'll be a better deep threat.

Cedrick Wilson, Nate Washington, Willie Reid, Dallas Baker, Eric Fowler, Eric Deslauriers will vye for the 3, 4 and 5 spots. Personally I think UDFA Fowler could really surprise some people.. He was the Dwayne Jarrett of D2. Unstoppable. Wilson likely will start at 3, Washington/Reid will fight for 4.

Now speaking of Reid, I can't wait to throw out the 1 thing this thread is completely lacking.. Talk of Special Teams.

TE:

I Think Heap is the best TE in the AFCN now, but I think Pittsburgh has the best duo. With Heath Miller and Matt Spaeth, we can let Miller split out and create more mismatches. Spaeth is a huge red-zone target and monster blocker. I think this is going to throw some teams off.

OT:

Marvel Smith is a lock at LT and I hope Capizzi can challenge him next year.

Max Starks, Jason Capizzi and Willie Colon will battle for RT. Don't forget, Rookie Willie Colon, kept Adalius Thomas AND Trevor Pryce out of the backfield against us the 2nd time.

OG:

I hope we re-sign Faneca which, is rumored to be close to done. At RG, I think they removed the weak-link. Kendall Simmons is competing for Center and They're going to throw Kemoeatu in there. Either Kemo or Colon will give us a more powerful, bigger bodied Guard that can compete with the bigger NT's that gave us issues.

OC:

Some see Hartings retirement as a blow.. I don't, we knew it was coming. We probably have the most depth at G/C in the league. I have a feeling Mahan or Okobi run away with the C job, which IMO Okobi outplayed Hartings last year. Outside Chance for Marvin Phillip.. who shut down Haloti Ngata all through College.

DEFENSE:

LeBeau's loyalty in Pittsburgh has been rewarded with 2 Young and talented Linebackers, a High-motor DE, and a Solid Corner.. I have no idea what the hell he's going to do with them, but he is supposedly created 35 new plays, just for Timmons, Woodley, and Keisel.

DE:

I think we have one of the most underrated DE duo's in the league. Aaron Smith is a beast and holds the point as good as anyone. He's not much of a pass rusher, but we did add Ryan McBean behind him. Keisel was probably our best defensive player last year. He put up stats similar to Luis Castillo/Richard Seymour. He's going to be doing some key stuff this year as LeBeau is cooking up tons of new material. As much as Timmons and Woodley are being pumped up for LeBeaus Schemes, LeBeau is creating some interesting stuff for Keisel. I was worried about depth.. but we added 3 this offseason.. 2 rooks and Nick Eason.

NT:

Casey Hampton, IMO is top 2 in the league, the only guy I may rank higher is Jamal Williams and thats only because of Williams Sheer size/power. Hampton is a beast and his backup Chris Hoke isn't a slacker either. He was our Starting NT in our 15-1 Season.

OLB:

Losing Porter was a blow, but I don't know how this will work.. It's my question mark right now... I'll know more after I head to Latrobe for TC.

James Harrison is labeled the Starter as of right now. Grayback, is the guy that both body slammed the Browns Fan, and Chad Johnson last season.. There was a few games he started for Porter.. and in those games, he led the Steelers in almost every defensive category... Tackles and Sacks, he would make some forget Porter.

Timmons was to replace Porter... but he gives us flexibility. He's supposedly going to be used like Polamalu.. He'll just be walking around and you don't know if he's coming or not.

Woodley, even if he's horrible in coverage, which is supposedly his con about being a Linebacker.. he can't be worse than Clark Haggans.. he's faster, more powerful, and was more accomplished coming out of college. Plus he gives us the ability to seamlessly switch to a 4-3. Perhaps a poor mans Freeney, he can play standup or with his hand down.

ILB:

Farrior is a probowler at Buck and Though he's old, I think he'll be fine one more season, until we add Jasper Brinkley (I hope).. Foote was probably our most consistant Linebacker last year.. 90 Tackles, 4 sacks 1 INT and 1 Fumble is a pretty good season for Him.

Rumor has it that after this season or sometime this season.. Foote will be moving to Buck and Timmons at Mack. That would be interesting..

The fact remains Lebeau has an infusion of Young talent and no one has a clue how he's going to use them.

CB:

Ike had a bad season (who in Pitt didn't), but a lot of our secondary issues were from a lack of Pass rush. Which is why most steelers fans never understood the CB pick. Don't forget who the coach is.. Mike Tomlin, who is supposed to be one of the best defensive backs coach in the league. His tutelage to Ike, Bryant, Rico, An Smith, Troy, Willie *** and Anthony Madison could mean big things.

Ike shut down everyone our superbowl year. Of course his hands come pre-equipped with grease as he can't catch anything (Ironically he intercepted a pass in the superbowl). Bryant McFadden is a solid #2. Ricardo Colclough was looking as if he was coming around before his neck injury. DeShea is a solid vet and even though his physical stature and speed isn't anything to brag about, he's very intelligent. Apparently thats what they see in ***. They see him as a very strong and intelligent player who can contribute in Nickel/Dime Packages his rookie season.

S:

We have a solid Safety Duo. Anthony Smith had 2 INT's in 3 games Started. He also earned the #5 Top hit of the season per NFLN on the hit on TJ Howsmoozilly. He also was a punisher to Reuben Droughns, Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards. He's perfect in both the zone blitz scheme and Tampa2 scheme. He's a great midfielder that brings the pain everytime he's in on a play.

Troy Polamalu needs no introduction.

Ryan Clark was solid for us, not great, but he did his job breaking in Anthony Smith. He'll provide Nickel Coverage and Gives us great depth if an injury occurs.

Tyrone Carter is a solid backup.. Undersized, but when Troy was out last season, he single-handedly won us a game with a Forced fumble and recovery.. and he was playing exactly like Troy did, not as great, but solid.


Here's the part that everyone is overlooking

Special Teams.

We were absolutely HORRENDOUS last year. Tomlin has made it his personal agenda to fix ST. Timmons, Woodley, McBean and *** can contribute right away.. Don't forget We added Daniel Sepulveda.. the best Punter in the draft.

I don't think people realize how awful Gardocki was. He was hands down the worst punter in the league last year and if not, he was in the worst 2. Adding Sepulveda gives us the "Hidden Yardage" advantage.. no more 22 Yard Punts.

Sepulveda also allows us to have 11 coverage guys on the field, not 10 and a punter.. See:
http://www.baylortv.com/streaming/000641/300kbps_ref.mov

Also, Willie Reid our 3rd round pick last year, who we drafted as a return specialist, is back. I can count on 2 hands how many games Special teams lost us.

Even as bad as we were playing last year, we were still in ALL the games (except Baltimore), until it came to ST's.. Our coverage sucked, our Punter Sucked, Our returners (Holmes/Coke) fumbled almost EVERY return.


So since we improved our ST.. I think a 10-13 win season is very much in the reach for the Steelers this year.

steelernation77
05-10-2007, 08:46 AM
I think people are underselling the Steelers a bit.

I'm not saying we'll win the division, but I think that we're the underdog and the last time that happened we went as a #6 seed and won the superbowl.

I'll give you a run down per position so maybe you guys will get some better perspective.

Offense:

Ben had a poor season and I'm not making excuses, he sucked. However, we are using a more Indy-Style oriented offense, which is going to help excel our passing and running game. He streamlined the playbook and it's supposed to keep everyone on the same page.

QB:

We have arguably the best depth at QB in the AFC.. and possibly the NFL. I Can't think of 1 guy that is a better backup QB other than Charlie Batch. Ben has been putting tons of input in with Arians, has been studying non-stop and has been working with WR's in the offseason.. which is something he's never done. When he's in the zone, he's a top 3 QB in QB Rating. He was Top 5 his rookie season and top 3 his Soph season. Last year he was horrendous. However now, he's also calling his own protections.. What is going to motivate him more to save his own ass then calling his own protections?

RB:

Willie Parker was the #3 RB in the NFL last year.. the top 3 were in the AFC. I don't like the amount of Carries he had, and I don't like how early we abandoned the run early on the road. The new offense will spread the defense out a lot more and allow Willies elusiveness to really shine. As for depth? We have Najeh Davenport who is an Excellent ST return man, a solid 3rd down back and pass blocker. However he's injury prone. We have 2 UDFA's which I have high hopes for. In Russells short time at Minnesota he outplayed Laurence Maroney. If he returns to form, that'll be our second UDFA Steal at RB. As for Mosley, from Baylor. He's a 6'2 240lb Short Yardage Specialist and I thought he'd be our Short Yardage guy. However, on Wednesday we signed Kevan Barlow.

Now I know there's going to be crap about "Barlow Sucks" and He's never had a great season since his 1,000 yard season.. but he's coming to a perfect situation.. He's coming to a former Power running team, that still has the power running line. He may have had a 2.8 ypc average last year, but he was a short yardage specialist.. I'm excited, Barlow and Davenport give us 2 solid "bigger" guys that are solid blockers and receivers at RB.

FB:

Dan Kreider is one of the most underrated FB in the league. We also have John Kuhn and Aaron Robbins (We lost Gijon Robinson, who would've been a great weapon at FB).

WR:

With us using more 3-4 WR sets.. we're pretty set at WR. Hines Ward is either the #1 or #2 WR in the AFCN, Santonio Holmes was a beast last year and actually won us the game to knock the Bengals out of the playoffs last year. I think this year with a better grasp of the offense he'll be a better deep threat.

Cedrick Wilson, Nate Washington, Willie Reid, Dallas Baker, Eric Fowler, Eric Deslauriers will vye for the 3, 4 and 5 spots. Personally I think UDFA Fowler could really surprise some people.. He was the Dwayne Jarrett of D2. Unstoppable. Wilson likely will start at 3, Washington/Reid will fight for 4.

Now speaking of Reid, I can't wait to throw out the 1 thing this thread is completely lacking.. Talk of Special Teams.

TE:

I Think Heap is the best TE in the AFCN now, but I think Pittsburgh has the best duo. With Heath Miller and Matt Spaeth, we can let Miller split out and create more mismatches. Spaeth is a huge red-zone target and monster blocker. I think this is going to throw some teams off.

OT:

Marvel Smith is a lock at LT and I hope Capizzi can challenge him next year.

Max Starks, Jason Capizzi and Willie Colon will battle for RT. Don't forget, Rookie Willie Colon, kept Adalius Thomas AND Trevor Pryce out of the backfield against us the 2nd time.

OG:

I hope we re-sign Faneca which, is rumored to be close to done. At RG, I think they removed the weak-link. Kendall Simmons is competing for Center and They're going to throw Kemoeatu in there. Either Kemo or Colon will give us a more powerful, bigger bodied Guard that can compete with the bigger NT's that gave us issues.

OC:

Some see Hartings retirement as a blow.. I don't, we knew it was coming. We probably have the most depth at G/C in the league. I have a feeling Mahan or Okobi run away with the C job, which IMO Okobi outplayed Hartings last year. Outside Chance for Marvin Phillip.. who shut down Haloti Ngata all through College.

DEFENSE:

LeBeau's loyalty in Pittsburgh has been rewarded with 2 Young and talented Linebackers, a High-motor DE, and a Solid Corner.. I have no idea what the hell he's going to do with them, but he is supposedly created 35 new plays, just for Timmons, Woodley, and Keisel.

DE:

I think we have one of the most underrated DE duo's in the league. Aaron Smith is a beast and holds the point as good as anyone. He's not much of a pass rusher, but we did add Ryan McBean behind him. Keisel was probably our best defensive player last year. He put up stats similar to Luis Castillo/Richard Seymour. He's going to be doing some key stuff this year as LeBeau is cooking up tons of new material. As much as Timmons and Woodley are being pumped up for LeBeaus Schemes, LeBeau is creating some interesting stuff for Keisel. I was worried about depth.. but we added 3 this offseason.. 2 rooks and Nick Eason.

NT:

Casey Hampton, IMO is top 2 in the league, the only guy I may rank higher is Jamal Williams and thats only because of Williams Sheer size/power. Hampton is a beast and his backup Chris Hoke isn't a slacker either. He was our Starting NT in our 15-1 Season.

OLB:

Losing Porter was a blow, but I don't know how this will work.. It's my question mark right now... I'll know more after I head to Latrobe for TC.

James Harrison is labeled the Starter as of right now. Grayback, is the guy that both body slammed the Browns Fan, and Chad Johnson last season.. There was a few games he started for Porter.. and in those games, he led the Steelers in almost every defensive category... Tackles and Sacks, he would make some forget Porter.

Timmons was to replace Porter... but he gives us flexibility. He's supposedly going to be used like Polamalu.. He'll just be walking around and you don't know if he's coming or not.

Woodley, even if he's horrible in coverage, which is supposedly his con about being a Linebacker.. he can't be worse than Clark Haggans.. he's faster, more powerful, and was more accomplished coming out of college. Plus he gives us the ability to seamlessly switch to a 4-3. Perhaps a poor mans Freeney, he can play standup or with his hand down.

ILB:

Farrior is a probowler at Buck and Though he's old, I think he'll be fine one more season, until we add Jasper Brinkley (I hope).. Foote was probably our most consistant Linebacker last year.. 90 Tackles, 4 sacks 1 INT and 1 Fumble is a pretty good season for Him.

Rumor has it that after this season or sometime this season.. Foote will be moving to Buck and Timmons at Mack. That would be interesting..

The fact remains Lebeau has an infusion of Young talent and no one has a clue how he's going to use them.

CB:

Ike had a bad season (who in Pitt didn't), but a lot of our secondary issues were from a lack of Pass rush. Which is why most steelers fans never understood the CB pick. Don't forget who the coach is.. Mike Tomlin, who is supposed to be one of the best defensive backs coach in the league. His tutelage to Ike, Bryant, Rico, An Smith, Troy, Willie *** and Anthony Madison could mean big things.

Ike shut down everyone our superbowl year. Of course his hands come pre-equipped with grease as he can't catch anything (Ironically he intercepted a pass in the superbowl). Bryant McFadden is a solid #2. Ricardo Colclough was looking as if he was coming around before his neck injury. DeShea is a solid vet and even though his physical stature and speed isn't anything to brag about, he's very intelligent. Apparently thats what they see in ***. They see him as a very strong and intelligent player who can contribute in Nickel/Dime Packages his rookie season.

S:

We have a solid Safety Duo. Anthony Smith had 2 INT's in 3 games Started. He also earned the #5 Top hit of the season per NFLN on the hit on TJ Howsmoozilly. He also was a punisher to Reuben Droughns, Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards. He's perfect in both the zone blitz scheme and Tampa2 scheme. He's a great midfielder that brings the pain everytime he's in on a play.

Troy Polamalu needs no introduction.

Ryan Clark was solid for us, not great, but he did his job breaking in Anthony Smith. He'll provide Nickel Coverage and Gives us great depth if an injury occurs.

Tyrone Carter is a solid backup.. Undersized, but when Troy was out last season, he single-handedly won us a game with a Forced fumble and recovery.. and he was playing exactly like Troy did, not as great, but solid.


Here's the part that everyone is overlooking

Special Teams.

We were absolutely HORRENDOUS last year. Tomlin has made it his personal agenda to fix ST. Timmons, Woodley, McBean and *** can contribute right away.. Don't forget We added Daniel Sepulveda.. the best Punter in the draft.

I don't think people realize how awful Gardocki was. He was hands down the worst punter in the league last year and if not, he was in the worst 2. Adding Sepulveda gives us the "Hidden Yardage" advantage.. no more 22 Yard Punts.

Sepulveda also allows us to have 11 coverage guys on the field, not 10 and a punter.. See:
http://www.baylortv.com/streaming/000641/300kbps_ref.mov

Also, Willie Reid our 3rd round pick last year, who we drafted as a return specialist, is back. I can count on 2 hands how many games Special teams lost us.

Even as bad as we were playing last year, we were still in ALL the games (except Baltimore), until it came to ST's.. Our coverage sucked, our Punter Sucked, Our returners (Holmes/Coke) fumbled almost EVERY return.


So since we improved our ST.. I think a 10-13 win season is very much in the reach for the Steelers this year.

Quality post, I agree with you that improved special teams could make a HUGE difference for this team. There were a few games last year, I can think of the first Bengal game off the top of my head, that special teams cost us the game. Sepulveda should really help us with field position and if Reid can stay healthy, he's a dynamite returner.

ccB
05-10-2007, 09:08 AM
Can I just make it clear to you people that by losing Edwin Mulitalo the Ravens did not downgrade. Its obvious that you people did not watch many Ravens games last year because Mulitalo played I think all of 4 games. So I really dont see how losing him will effect us at all.

portermvp84
05-10-2007, 09:36 AM
The Ravens will win the divison. Last year the Raven's defense was unstopable and their offense was too. I think the Benagls will finish second if they can get their defense in order. The Browns are up in coming, they got a good young QB, decent rb, and a sturdy oline. I'm not sure about the defense but I could easily see them finishing 3rd. The Steelers are still rebuilding, I'm not sure about Mike Tomlin we could turn the team around and get them to the playoffs. You never know.

bored of education
05-10-2007, 09:52 AM
I'm huge on the Steelers this year. I think Big Ben will get back to his playing ways of a few years ago. Big Ben to Santonio is something Stiller fans wil be hearing alot. They will be making noise.

Bohleive
05-10-2007, 10:51 AM
well due to your outrageous optimism, i really hope you are right

but due to me being a steeler fan, i really really hope you are wrong

Outrageous optimism? How is that outrageously optimistic? Did I say any of these guys were gonna be probowlers? The word was upgrade, if you've seen the Ravens interior OL over the past 3 years then you know i speak the truth.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 11:00 AM
Here's what I think the starting rosters will be on paper at this point, so you guys can compare them in one glance instead of thinking about last season:

Pittsburgh
QB-Ben Roethlisberger__DE-Aaron Smith
RB-Willie Parker_______NT-Casey Hampton
FB-Dan Kreider_______DE-Brett Kiesel
WR-Hines Ward_______LOLB-Clark Haggans
WR-Santonio Holmes___LILB-James Farrior
TE-Heath Miller_______RILB-Larry Foote
LT-Marvel Smith______ROLB-Lawrence Timmons
LG-Alan Faneca_______LCB-Ike Taylor
C-Sean Mahan_______RCB-Bryant McFadden
RG-Kendall Simmons____FS-Ryan Clark
RT-Max Starks________SS-Troy Polamalu
Kendall Simmons, Lawrence Timmons, and Ryan Clark won't be starting.

BigDawg819
05-10-2007, 11:05 AM
Before I make a more detailed post in here I would like to point out the fact that rookie Ben Grubbs is a RIGHT GUARD and in no way be a solution to the cutting of Ed Mulitalo. He was cut due to the impeccable play of Jason Brown, who is our starting Left Guard. Grubbs' drafting will make an interesting scenario for Keydrick Vincent, who may very well be a cap casualty in June. So once again Ben Grubbs is a RIGHT GUARD for all those who can't seem to grasp that concept.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 11:16 AM
Before I make a more detailed post in here I would like to point out the fact that rookie Ben Grubbs is a RIGHT GUARD and in no way be a solution to the cutting of Ed Mulitalo. He was cut due to the impeccable play of Jason Brown, who is our starting Left Guard. Grubbs' drafting will make an interesting scenario for Keydrick Vincent, who may very well be a cap casualty in June. So once again Ben Grubbs is a RIGHT GUARD for all those who can't seem to grasp that concept.
NO you're a RIGHT GUARD!!

p.s. i feel like this paragraph was a deoderant commercial.

ccB
05-10-2007, 11:56 AM
I like Pittsburgh to improve this year but I am not sure if they have the offensive firepower and the loss of Joey Porter isnt going to help regardless if he wasnt that great last year but he was still able to get everyone pumped up and his prescence on the field will be missed.

I think its a toss up between the Ravens and the Bengals for the division though. The Bengals have the offense the Ravens have the defense. I give the edge to the Ravens because I am a homer and I feel our Offense is better than their defense.

I also feel this board has really overrated the Browns. They have improved in areas but I do not feel it is enough to make a run at the division title. Their whole season will rely on Jamal Lewis being the Jamal of old and not the Jamal of last year, I think they are getting the Jamal of last year though.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 12:07 PM
being a RB of the Bengals and/or Browns in the division is hard to do anything. Ravens and Steelers were #2 and #3 respectively against the run last year and consistently are that good. and when you can't run the ball in our division it is hard to get division wins. i think it is between the two teams that can run the ball and stop the run. that is what our division is about.

PalmerToCJ
05-10-2007, 01:35 PM
i think it is between the two teams that can run the ball and stop the run. that is what our division is about.

That's what 2 of the teams in our 4 team division are about. The past 2 years the Bengals have done pretty well for themselves not being elite in stopping the run going 9-3 in the division.

mikehop05
05-10-2007, 01:44 PM
That's what 2 of the teams in our 4 team division are about. The past 2 years the Bengals have done pretty well for themselves not being elite in stopping the run going 9-3 in the division.

9 - 4

if you count the loss to the steelers in the playoffs ;)

mikehop05
05-10-2007, 01:45 PM
losing to the raiders will do that:rolleyes:

ouch, low blow.. hahah

PoopSandwich
05-10-2007, 02:23 PM
Good deal. The Brown's really don't have a backup to Jamal Lewis. When he starts sucking, they'll realize they are screwed.

Jason Wright is fine, he was the only one to avoid hits behind a horrible offensive line, I consider him a reliable back-up and actually think he would have started the last 2 games if he hadn't gotten a cheap shot from the Baltimore player (I don't remember his name.)

bored of education
05-10-2007, 02:27 PM
a horrible o-line. i thought you said they will be top 5 or an awesome line.

PoopSandwich
05-10-2007, 02:31 PM
a horrible o-line. i thought you said they will be top 5 or an awesome line.

No I didn't say that don't put words into my mouth, secondly their line did suck last year, I said he" WAS the only one to avoid hits behind a horrible offensive line."

bored of education
05-10-2007, 02:36 PM
well some browns homer said it, you're all the same to me sorry.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 02:37 PM
That's what 2 of the teams in our 4 team division are about. The past 2 years the Bengals have done pretty well for themselves not being elite in stopping the run going 9-3 in the division.
granted the bengals haven't done bad, but yall still haven't won the division. its either been the us or the ravens the past 6 yrs.

RoyHall#1
05-10-2007, 02:41 PM
This division is all about the running game, on both sides of the ball. The Browns will have a good offensive running game next year with a star in Lewis and two decent backups in Harrison and Wright. Look at the BRown's line and tell me it is not one of the top 10 in the league on paper. It is. On the defensive side... we can't stop the run. WE have a good corps of LB's but not great yet and our d-line will still be bad even with the addition of Robaire Smith. Our d-line is flat out washed up.

Sean Jones will make the Pro Bowl next year. Guaranteed. Barring injuries of course. Leigh Bodden might also.

RoyHall#1
05-10-2007, 02:43 PM
well some browns homer said it, you're all the same to me sorry.

Wait, they said the Brown's had a good o-line last year?

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 02:47 PM
This division is all about the running game, on both sides of the ball. The Browns will have a good offensive running game next year with a star in Lewis and two decent backups in Harrison and Wright. Look at the BRown's line and tell me it is not one of the top 10 in the league on paper. It is. On the defensive side... we can't stop the run. WE have a good corps of LB's but not great yet and our d-line will still be bad even with the addition of Robaire Smith. Our d-line is flat out washed up.

Sean Jones will make the Pro Bowl next year. Guaranteed. Barring injuries of course. Leigh Bodden might also.
since when has Lewis been a star?? the ravens line is better than the browns and he hasn't been anything in a while. Lewis is not the answer to yalls running back problem. luckily for yallthe running back stock in next years draft is deep, so you can pick up a running back with your 2nd round pick.

RoyHall#1
05-10-2007, 02:54 PM
Lewis was a star since... 3 years ago? OK, he's not a star now but he is a definte upgrade over Droughns and is still only 27, I think.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 02:59 PM
yea 3 yrs but that is a while to go from 2000+ yrds to averaging under 4 a carry and barely breaking a grand. but yes he is an upgrade over droughns.

Smooth Criminal
05-10-2007, 03:27 PM
I really feel the Browns line is being overrated. Its better than it has been in the past but spending more money doesn't make it better. Steinbach is very overrated in my mind. He is not as great as the contract makes him out to be. Bentley is likely to miss this season. Thomas has never played in the NFL so we really don't know what he will be. It could be a good line but right now it is a huge question mark.

This entire division is a question mark really. Will the Steelers play like they did last year or can they rebound to closer to the Superbowl team? Will the Ravens team start to show their age at key positions and fall off? Will the Bengals be able to get their defense going?

This is going to be an exciting year to watch the AFC North because there isn't a team that is truly dominant like in most divisions. We have had 3 different teams win this division in the last 3 years. All depends on which team comes out to play and avoids injuries.

ccB
05-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Lewis was a star since... 3 years ago? OK, he's not a star now but he is a definte upgrade over Droughns and is still only 27, I think.

Hes older than his age leads you to believe, we wore him down while he was here. He is not the same player he once was and if you believe your getting the Jamal Lewis that used to kill the browns regularly than your going to most likely be let down.

Bengals1690
05-10-2007, 03:33 PM
granted the bengals haven't done bad, but yall still haven't won the division. its either been the us or the ravens the past 6 yrs.

we won it year before last...good job.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 03:34 PM
we won it year before last...good job.
yea i remembered that after i posted it. i figured someone would call it out. i can't believe i forgot though, yall had a whole superbowl parade for it didn't you?? ;)

Bengals1690
05-10-2007, 03:36 PM
yea i remembered that after i posted it. i figured someone would call it out. i can't believe i forgot though, yall had a whole superbowl parade for it didn't you?? ;)

damn you.... lol. then ****** kimo had to hurt carson...aaaahhh that was such an anticlimatic year.

terribletowel39
05-10-2007, 03:36 PM
damn you.... lol. then ****** kimo had to hurt carson...aaaahhh that was such an anticlimatic year.
just like i paid him to.

RoyHall#1
05-10-2007, 03:38 PM
Hes older than his age leads you to believe, we wore him down while he was here. He is not the same player he once was and if you believe your getting the Jamal Lewis that used to kill the browns regularly than your going to most likely be let down.

Definitely not expecting anything great, I just wanted to make a point with his age although he is washed up, definitely.

PoopSandwich
05-10-2007, 04:22 PM
well some browns homer said it, you're all the same to me sorry.

Except for I'm not a Browns homer, I see it like it is.

BigDawg819
05-10-2007, 04:25 PM
Definitely not expecting anything great, I just wanted to make a point with his age although he is washed up, definitely.

Wow your first post is all gungho about how Lewis is a star and the line is one of the best and now you have minimal expectations. So which one is it or do you not even have a clue as this page of posts indicates?

BengalsPwn
05-10-2007, 04:25 PM
The browns line on paper still isn't top 10. The right side still blows, you have no center, and your blindside protector is a rookie. Maybe next year if Bentley can finally come back. The browns won't break 4 wins bet that. By mid season you will have a rookie QB starting, no running game, and a worn down defense.

niel89
05-10-2007, 04:50 PM
NO you're a RIGHT GUARD!!

p.s. i feel like this paragraph was a deoderant commercial.

http://www.auravita.com/prodimages/GILL/gill13890.jpg

asasasasa

RoyHall#1
05-10-2007, 06:04 PM
The browns line on paper still isn't top 10. The right side still blows, you have no center, and your blindside protector is a rookie. Maybe next year if Bentley can finally come back. The browns won't break 4 wins bet that. By mid season you will have a rookie QB starting, no running game, and a worn down defense.

LT- Thomas
LG- Steinbach
C- Fraley
RG-Mckinney
RT- Schaffer

Granted there is a weak spot at RG but how is that line not top 10? Fraley is very underrated but Thomas, Steinbach, and Schaffer have pro bowl potential. Obviously you have not watched Hank Fraley play if you think we don't have a center, I'd say he was best on the line last year.

RoyHall#1
05-10-2007, 06:09 PM
Wow your first post is all gungho about how Lewis is a star and the line is one of the best and now you have minimal expectations. So which one is it or do you not even have a clue as this page of posts indicates?

Are you kidding me? Yes I said Lewis is a star but I took that back, all I really meant was that he's an upgrade over Droughns if you would've read my other post. Secondly, I said the line is top 10 not one of the best. And I said I wasn't expecting anything great from Lewis in my last post, I didn't say the running game or anything about minimal expectations.

How do you have that much rep? You say stupid stuff everytime I see your posts. I -repped you before but you got all hissy and -repped me back just because I did it to you.

BigDawg819
05-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Are you kidding me? Yes I said Lewis is a star but I took that back, all I really meant was that he's an upgrade over Droughns if you would've read my other post. Secondly, I said the line is top 10 not one of the best. And I said I wasn't expecting anything great from Lewis in my last post, I didn't say the running game or anything about minimal expectations.

How do you have that much rep? You say stupid stuff everytime I see your posts. I -repped you before but you got all hissy and -repped me back just because I did it to you.

Sorry my posts aren't pleasing to you, I apparently dumb then down so you can understand them. Every post you made on this post is a flip flop on your part and you have the audacity to question others? A top 10 line, which you have claimed, would be one of the better lines in the league as I stated and now you once again your trying to flip flop your statement. And I - repped you then out of spite but now I will because of your repeated moronic statements.

BigDawg819
05-10-2007, 06:21 PM
LT- Thomas
LG- Steinbach
C- Fraley
RG-Mckinney
RT- Schaffer

Granted there is a weak spot at RG but how is that line not top 10? Fraley is very underrated but Thomas, Steinbach, and Schaffer have pro bowl potential. Obviously you have not watched Hank Fraley play if you think we don't have a center, I'd say he was best on the line last year.

Let's see:

Thomas is a rookie and unproven
Steinbach is a decent guard but won't be worth that contract, not mention how much of his success was a result of teaming with Willie Anderson
Fraley I hate to break it to you is not the All-Star you make him out to be, he was solid in Philly's run to the Super Bowl but there is a reason they gave up on him; and the entire right side is laughable.

How is that a top 10 line in the NFL?

Mr. Stiller
05-10-2007, 06:36 PM
I like Pittsburgh to improve this year but I am not sure if they have the offensive firepower and the loss of Joey Porter isnt going to help regardless if he wasnt that great last year but he was still able to get everyone pumped up and his prescence on the field will be missed.

Offensive Firepower? Willie Parker #3 in the NFL as a RB last year, added to Kevan Barlow and Najeh Davenport who are solid as backups...

We have Heath Miller and Matt Spaeth, 2 very talented and young TE's that are great blockers and still receiving threats.

We have A Pro-Bowl WR, a 2006 first round pick who, put up 800+ yards and only started the last Quarter of the season. Our WR depth is pretty solid. Ced Wilson, Willie Reid (3rd rounder in 06), Nate Washington..Add Red zone threat Dallas Baker and 1 UDFA with a terrific Chance to make the roster in Eric Fowler.

Joey Porter is my question mark.. Who on defense will lead.. and I think you'll see 2-4 Guys do it.. Anthony Smith, even though Young, is very instinctive and smart, James Harrison who's possibly even more fiery than Porter, Troy Polamalu who is all over the place.. and Veteran James Farrior...

I think its a toss up between the Ravens and the Bengals for the division though. The Bengals have the offense the Ravens have the defense. I give the edge to the Ravens because I am a homer and I feel our Offense is better than their defense.

Don't forget Chris Henry is out the first 8 games.

I also feel this board has really overrated the Browns. They have improved in areas but I do not feel it is enough to make a run at the division title. Their whole season will rely on Jamal Lewis being the Jamal of old and not the Jamal of last year, I think they are getting the Jamal of last year though.

Again.. I think people are underselling Pittsburgh.. I understand.. No Porter and new Coach...

I think we're actually more talented this year than last.

PalmerToCJ
05-10-2007, 08:38 PM
granted the bengals haven't done bad, but yall still haven't won the division. its either been the us or the ravens the past 6 yrs.

Bengals = 2005 AFC North Division Champions.

The only team that really has given us challenges is the Steelers, giving us 3 of the last 4 divisional game losses.

mcdlaxbonz13
05-10-2007, 09:33 PM
as a browns fan i to believe people are overrating the browns, fact of the matter is untill the team proves that they are different they will be the cleveland clowns no matter how much money we invest, or how good of players we draft, if it doesn't result in wins it means squat

bored of education
05-10-2007, 09:36 PM
plus rep for you sir..thank you for being a realist.

kalbears13
05-10-2007, 09:39 PM
plus rep for you sir..thank you for being a realist.

I can't take you as a realist having Reuben Droughns rushing for 700 yards.

BigDawg819
05-10-2007, 10:29 PM
I can't take you as a realist having Reuben Droughns rushing for 700 yards.

Its a sig quote from another user.........DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PoopSandwich
05-11-2007, 08:33 AM
plus rep for you sir..thank you for being a realist.

Sigh... You call him a realist yet bash me, when I flat out say the Browns aren't going to do anything special this year, but that they have improved.

Amazing.

RoyHall#1
05-11-2007, 09:23 AM
Sorry my posts aren't pleasing to you, I apparently dumb then down so you can understand them. Every post you made on this post is a flip flop on your part and you have the audacity to question others? A top 10 line, which you have claimed, would be one of the better lines in the league as I stated and now you once again your trying to flip flop your statement. And I - repped you then out of spite but now I will because of your repeated moronic statements.

"I apparently dumb then down so you can understand them"

What? I assume "then" should be them. Even so, that doesn't make sense. It means you have dumbed them down so I can understand them, which doesn't make sense because you don't think I understand what you are saying.

"One of the better lines" is what I took to mean an elite line, maybe top 5. I don't think the Brown's are there yet, I said I think we are top 10.

That's the only thing you said I flip-flopped on, which I didn't, and then you end your post with

"Now you once again your trying to flip flop your statement."

No, I didn't, and how can it be "again" if you only said 1 thing you think I flip-flopped on?

RoyHall#1
05-11-2007, 09:32 AM
Let's see:

Thomas is a rookie and unproven
Steinbach is a decent guard but won't be worth that contract, not mention how much of his success was a result of teaming with Willie Anderson
Fraley I hate to break it to you is not the All-Star you make him out to be, he was solid in Philly's run to the Super Bowl but there is a reason they gave up on him; and the entire right side is laughable.

How is that a top 10 line in the NFL?


Let's see,

Thomas is the #3 overall pick as an olinemen. How many olinemen taken that high bust?

Steinbach is good. Thank you.

Fraley is not an all-star, I never said he was if you read my post. But you can't write him off as crappy because Philly cut him. Michael Jordan was cut, you can't use that argument.

How is Schaffer laughable? Granted, RG, is a weakness but show some intelligence in your posts and don't just call it "laughable"

keylime_5
05-11-2007, 09:49 AM
Fraley wasn't cut, we traded a 2008 draft pick for him. And he did make the pro bowl a few years ago, plus he was our best offensive lineman last year (though that's not saying a lot). Tucker usually is a very good, solid OT and will be better as a guard this year now that he is past his prime as a pass blocker. Tucker would be a below average pass blocker at RT, but an above average one at RG. Shaffer was not good at LT last year, but wasn't as bad as some make him out to be, plus he was playing next to a terrible LG. Put him on the right and he'll be much better. Steinbach is a very good young guard. Thomas is gonna be great, but as a rookie he'll only be good.

If you think about it we have 3 guys who could start at LT for us on our O-Line this year in Thomas, Shaffer, and Steinbach, so the Browns' pass blocking will be MUCH much better this year compared to last.

terribletowel39
05-11-2007, 11:46 AM
but you are in a division that needs to be able to block for the run.

ccB
05-11-2007, 12:05 PM
Let's see,

Thomas is the #3 overall pick as an olinemen. How many olinemen taken that high bust?

Steinbach is good. Thank you.

Fraley is not an all-star, I never said he was if you read my post. But you can't write him off as crappy because Philly cut him. Michael Jordan was cut, you can't use that argument.

How is Schaffer laughable? Granted, RG, is a weakness but show some intelligence in your posts and don't just call it "laughable"

Just recently? Ugh....Leonard Davis, Robert Gallery,and Mike Williams just to name a few.

RoyHall#1
05-11-2007, 12:37 PM
Just recently? Ugh....Leonard Davis, Robert Gallery,and Mike Williams just to name a few.

You have to admit that other positions have a much higher bust rate.

Davis would not be a bust except for the injuries, and Gallery got asked way too much of him. Besides, Texas players are almost always overrated coming into the draft. They ususally don't do well because Texas isn't at all like an NFL team.

terribletowel39
05-11-2007, 01:19 PM
You have to admit that other positions have a much higher bust rate.

Davis would not be a bust except for the injuries, and Gallery got asked way too much of him. Besides, Texas players are almost always overrated coming into the draft. They ususally don't do well because Texas isn't at all like an NFL team.
i agree with everything except that last sentence. not because i think Texas is like an NFL team, but because that is a moot point. most of the colleges in America are not at all like an NFL team.

mikehop05
05-11-2007, 01:23 PM
only reason texas players are overrated is because they come from a big time school that gets a lot of publicity...

but seriously texas players suck, just look at that vincent young character

jkpigskin
05-11-2007, 01:29 PM
You have to admit that other positions have a much higher bust rate.

Davis would not be a bust except for the injuries, and Gallery got asked way too much of him. Besides, Texas players are almost always overrated coming into the draft. They ususally don't do well because Texas isn't at all like an NFL team.

you asked how many high pick OL have been busts and he named some... doesnt matter the situation, because its usually the situation that makes a player a bust

Bohleive
05-11-2007, 01:50 PM
You have to admit that other positions have a much higher bust rate.

Davis would not be a bust except for the injuries, and Gallery got asked way too much of him. Besides, Texas players are almost always overrated coming into the draft. They ususally don't do well because Texas isn't at all like an NFL team.

The real problem is you're claiming the Browns have a top ten OL. That statement is just absurdly homeristic. Wake up. They are working towards mediocrity, not top 10. Name one elite player on that OL, one.

RoyHall#1
05-11-2007, 02:55 PM
Eric Steinbach

terribletowel39
05-11-2007, 02:59 PM
Eric Steinbach
naw man. to me there are only two elite G's in the NFL. and to me elite is defined as if someone was to make a team to have for a year 90% of the NFL fan base would pick these ppl. thats Hutchinson, and Faneca. i don't think that many ppl would take someone outside of those two for a super team to have for one year. you might take some other G's if you were dealing with more than one year but if you were just talking about one year, it would have to be one of those two. those are the only elite guards in the NFL.

RoyHall#1
05-11-2007, 03:10 PM
If that's elite, then not every top 10 oline in the league has an elite lineman.

terribletowel39
05-11-2007, 03:33 PM
no i wouldn't say that they do. but one elite guy doesn't make an o-line top 10. look at ours. Faneca is the best in the business arguably. our o-line (as a whole) looked like the upside of a donkey's taint sometimes out there last year.

Smooth Criminal
05-11-2007, 03:43 PM
People tend to overrate teams with high draft picks on this board because it's a draft website. Thomas and Quinn will not make the immdiate impact that many people think they will just because they were ranked highly.

I really can't see the Browns being good this year. Next year will be an even better situation because Thomas and Quinn will have some experience and Bentley will be back. Plus they need some D-line help before I'll take the front 7 seriously. They adressed the linebackers with Wimbley and Jackson but the D-line is lacking.

mikehop05
05-11-2007, 05:23 PM
People tend to overrate teams with high draft picks on this board because it's a draft website. Thomas and Quinn will not make the immdiate impact that many people think they will just because they were ranked highly.

I really can't see the Browns being good this year. Next year will be an even better situation because Thomas and Quinn will have some experience and Bentley will be back. Plus they need some D-line help before I'll take the front 7 seriously. They adressed the linebackers with Wimbley and Jackson but the D-line is lacking.

couldnt agree more

Bohleive
05-11-2007, 06:39 PM
People tend to overrate teams with high draft picks on this board because it's a draft website. Thomas and Quinn will not make the immdiate impact that many people think they will just because they were ranked highly.

I really can't see the Browns being good this year. Next year will be an even better situation because Thomas and Quinn will have some experience and Bentley will be back. Plus they need some D-line help before I'll take the front 7 seriously. They adressed the linebackers with Wimbley and Jackson but the D-line is lacking.
I hate agreeing with steeler fans.
As for Steinbach, no. Simply no. Put down the peacepipe ricky jr., how many pro bowls has he been to?

PoopSandwich
05-11-2007, 07:18 PM
People tend to overrate teams with high draft picks on this board because it's a draft website. Thomas and Quinn will not make the immdiate impact that many people think they will just because they were ranked highly.

I really can't see the Browns being good this year. Next year will be an even better situation because Thomas and Quinn will have some experience and Bentley will be back. Plus they need some D-line help before I'll take the front 7 seriously. They adressed the linebackers with Wimbley and Jackson but the D-line is lacking.

You nailed it head on.

I don't see the Browns going more than 7-9 this year, 8-8 would be if everything panned out. Quinn and Thomas probably won't begin to become great until 2-3 years, any earlier than that we are lucky (More Quinn than Thomas because offensive linemen can come in and contribute right away more than a QB can.)

I am one who is saying the Browns will be good in 2008 or 2009, I'm not expecting anything over .500 this year, .500 would be a treat, but I do think our o-line has upgraded and were headed in the right direction, for once.

PoopSandwich
05-11-2007, 07:19 PM
how many pro bowls has he been to?

Did Tom Brady make the Pro-bowl last year?

That answers that.

Also, who the hell did Romo get in over, another point why the pro-bowl is stupid and just a fan vote.

Bohleive
05-11-2007, 08:05 PM
Did Tom Brady make the Pro-bowl last year?

That answers that.

Also, who the hell did Romo get in over, another point why the pro-bowl is stupid and just a fan vote.

Look, if he's an elite G don't you think he would've at least been to a probowl, incidently, pretty much the only numerical stat used to measure OL?
Romo and Brady have nothing to do with Steinbach. If the majority of the players, coaches and fans of the NFL's opinions are less significant than your own in your opinion, that says something about you.

mikehop05
05-11-2007, 08:56 PM
Did Tom Brady make the Pro-bowl last year?

That answers that.

Also, who the hell did Romo get in over, another point why the pro-bowl is stupid and just a fan vote.

tom brady turned it down, he got an invite though

PoopSandwich
05-11-2007, 10:30 PM
Look, if he's an elite G don't you think he would've at least been to a probowl, incidently, pretty much the only numerical stat used to measure OL?
Romo and Brady have nothing to do with Steinbach. If the majority of the players, coaches and fans of the NFL's opinions are less significant than your own in your opinion, that says something about you.

Are you serious? You ignored the entirety of my post, the point is you don't measure anything by pro-bowls, the moment Tony Romo made it I considered it a popularity contest, and then Tom Brady not making it? He is one of the best QB's of our era and had a great season last year.

Steinbach may not have been the best guard or worthy of a pro-bowl in the AFC, I never said he was worthy of a pro-bowl, I'm saying that judging a player on the Pro-Bowl is ignorant and stupid IMO.

PoopSandwich
05-11-2007, 10:30 PM
tom brady turned it down, he got an invite though

Ah, that is something I did not know...

I thought Rivers got invited over him, or am I mistaken?

Bengals1690
05-11-2007, 10:32 PM
Ah, that is something I did not know...

I thought Rivers got invited over him, or am I mistaken?

no he declined, which is why vince young went. he had some type os injry i belive.

mcdlaxbonz13
05-11-2007, 11:20 PM
being a browns fan i almost bought into this oh we may do good this year, but then i remembered one thing, we are the cleveland browns. And if you go back and look at all the times the browns were considered good they had one thing in common, an amazing running game and to be honest i have no confidence that jamal lewis will provide that for us. you have to remember that when he ran for 2k he got 500+ yards against cleveland because as always our run Defense is laughable. so like its already been stated until we can stop the run and make teams pass we have very slim chance of getting towards 500. (sidenote it is only may for cryin out loud, who knows how things are going to be come september, some things do change)

PoopSandwich
05-12-2007, 12:22 PM
no he declined, which is why vince young went. he had some type os injry i belive.

Yeah I knew that about Rivers, but I thought initially that Rivers got invited over Brady but I'm probably wrong, I'm not a big fan of the pro-bowl, best players don't always get the first invite.

Bohleive
05-12-2007, 01:35 PM
Are you serious? You ignored the entirety of my post, the point is you don't measure anything by pro-bowls, the moment Tony Romo made it I considered it a popularity contest, and then Tom Brady not making it? He is one of the best QB's of our era and had a great season last year.

Steinbach may not have been the best guard or worthy of a pro-bowl in the AFC, I never said he was worthy of a pro-bowl, I'm saying that judging a player on the Pro-Bowl is ignorant and stupid IMO.
Re-read what I said.
Alright so give me some other relatively objective statistical measurement showing he is an ELITE player. Just got your opinion? Thought so.

PoopSandwich
05-12-2007, 01:56 PM
Re-read what I said.
Alright so give me some other relatively objective statistical measurement showing he is an ELITE player. Just got your opinion? Thought so.

"The $49.5 million man appears likely to begin his Browns career starting at the left guard spot."

ccB
05-12-2007, 02:27 PM
"The $49.5 million man appears likely to begin his Browns career starting at the left guard spot."So because he got overpaid that makes him great?

PalmerToCJ
05-12-2007, 02:39 PM
Steinbach is good... Don't get me wrong. But he's no Hutchinson.

He can pass block with the best of them (except on Kimo) but he's not going to be a 'force' in the offensive line. He had tons of talent around him here and he was simply replacable.

I'm not saying the Browns made a mistake, they're doing the right thing in addressing their Oline first but Steinbach is just one piece of the puzzle.

ccB
05-12-2007, 02:47 PM
Thats the thing people are not getting. He played on a line with Levi Jones and Willie Anderson. Nows hes going to a team where hes the best guy on the line and not the 3rd best. Theres going to be a drop off in his play but it was still a good move imo because the browns line was that bad.

PoopSandwich
05-12-2007, 03:21 PM
So because he got overpaid that makes him great?

Well, like the Ravens fan said, the opinions of the Browns organization and the other teams in the league that made his price tag go up doesn't matter?

icantackleclaret
05-12-2007, 04:59 PM
Steinbach is good... Don't get me wrong. But he's no Hutchinson.

He can pass block with the best of them (except on Kimo) but he's not going to be a 'force' in the offensive line. He had tons of talent around him here and he was simply replacable.

I'm not saying the Browns made a mistake, they're doing the right thing in addressing their Oline first but Steinbach is just one piece of the puzzle.

Are you really putting the blame on Palmers knee on Steinbach?

PoopSandwich
05-12-2007, 06:43 PM
If he is it's fine because that play went for like 73 yards anyways it was after the play that Palmer got hurt.

Bohleive
05-12-2007, 07:09 PM
"The $49.5 million man appears likely to begin his Browns career starting at the left guard spot."

So really salaries are a better measure of how good a player is than pro bowls. That's just an awesome deduction. So Leonard Davis must be the best guard in the league.

PoopSandwich
05-12-2007, 09:02 PM
So really salaries are a better measure of how good a player is than pro bowls. That's just an awesome deduction. So Leonard Davis must be the best guard in the league.

No, you just asked for a stat that showed that support that he was an Elite Player correct?

So I provided a stat that shows he gets payed like an elite player.

Now, like your stat, my stat can be proven a fluke as yours can, that was in a way my point.

Stats don't always tell the stories, everyone will find an excuse why a player is amazing or why he sucks, right now if Steinbach was a Raven you would find the same money stat to counter the pro-bowl argument or you would go look up pancakes or sacks allowed, and then someone would counter that with well the Bengals have good offensive line support.

It's pointless to even argue at this point, because I know you are a Ravens fan, and you don't like the Browns, and I am a Browns fan, and believe the player we just invested 49.5 million in was worth every penny.

Smooth Criminal
05-12-2007, 09:03 PM
Nate Clements is by far the best corner to.

Bengals1690
05-12-2007, 09:08 PM
Nate Clements is by far the best corner to.

micheal vick is only behind peyton as a QB

PalmerToCJ
05-13-2007, 10:43 AM
Are you really putting the blame on Palmers knee on Steinbach?

It was more a joke... But it was Steinbachs guy so technically you could say yes.

ChazMonk
05-13-2007, 12:28 PM
The browns line on paper still isn't top 10. The right side still blows, you have no center, and your blindside protector is a rookie. Maybe next year if Bentley can finally come back. The browns won't break 4 wins bet that. By mid season you will have a rookie QB starting, no running game, and a worn down defense.

I'll "bet that" in a heart beat. This is a team that should have beaten the Steelers and the Ravens at home, played very close games against the Panthers and Chargers and only got blown out 3-4 times. I say this because this wasn't the case very often since 1999. We very well could have finished with 6-8 wins.

And I disagree with almost everyone here; this team will win a minimum 6 games, most likely 7-9 games. We didn't regress and no one in this division got incrementally better, save maybe Baltimore.

And your not giving the Oline enough credit. Even if Thomas doesn't start right away (though I think he will), the biggest key to the puzzle is Ryan Tucker, a very solid RT who is finally healthy again. Fraley is underrated and McKinney, also healthy, will fill in nicely at RG.

Our only major defficiency is the DL and even that was improved over the offseason.

I'll take all bets here that our running game will be better than you think, we will finish with a .500 record (give or take a game), and we don't finish last in the division, leaving that title to the Steelers, who if you haven't been paying attention, have some disgruntled players, are switching to a 4-3 defense, and have the most overrated QB of all time.

I'm not claiming division winner, playoffs or Super Bowl contenders, but the days of Carmon Policy and Butch Davis are over. You all will have to contend with the fact that we are much better and soon will be winning on a regular basis. What will you do?

BengalsPwn
05-13-2007, 02:13 PM
Are there any realistic browns fans here seriously. You guys are overrating your mediocre O-line, lack of a RB, no proven QB, injury prone players, and a decent defense. At least as a bengals fan I am realistic, we are the old colts. All offense and not much defense. Our offense is going to carry us to a great regular season record but the defense will cripple us in the playoffs unless we can buckle down and stop someone on third down. Our special teams is the best in the division as long as Tab can be healthy this year after missing all of last year. Our defense is full of potential, hopefully they can pan out this year and step it up. The browns whole team is based on A LOT of potential, and when your hoping for a lot of unproven players to play good in the best division in football, your looking at a very bad record.

PS: nobody in the NFC better contest there division is harder because the NFC blows so you NFC east homers don't try it.

PoopSandwich
05-13-2007, 02:39 PM
Are there any realistic browns fans here seriously.

..... I give up.

PoopSandwich
05-13-2007, 02:44 PM
At least as a bengals fan I am realistic, we are the old colts. All offense and not much defense. Our offense is going to carry us to a great regular season record but the defense will cripple us in the playoffs unless we can buckle down and stop someone on third down.

Yeah you guys did great in the playoffs last year.

Our special teams is the best in the division as long as Tab can be healthy this year after missing all of last year.

No, that would be Cleveland's, nice try though, we are good at something.

Our defense is full of potential, hopefully they can pan out this year and step it up.

Potentially not the worst in the league, you added Leon Hall congratulations you get a cookie, how does your linebacking corps look?

The browns whole team is based on A LOT of potential, and when your hoping for a lot of unproven players to play good in the best division in football, your looking at a very bad record.

Or, if they match their potential, you end up with a very good team, although I won't believe it until I see it, like I said I understand the Browns aren't likely to finish 3rd 2nd or 1st in the division, so stop just generalizing every Browns fan as one because they have some hope.

PS: nobody in the NFC better contest there division is harder because the NFC blows so you NFC east homers don't try it.

!!! YOU WIN !!!

I AGREE WITH YOU !!!

Space Ghost
05-13-2007, 03:01 PM
Well, I was really bored and did this the other day after I did the same thing for the AFC East so I wrote this up. Enjoy.

Woooooot!!!! AFC NORTH FTW!!!

Record Predictions:

Bengals 11-5 3-3
Ravens 10-6 4-2
Steelers 8-8 4-2
Browns 4-12 1-5

The Bengals offense is going to keep on putting up points and a healthy Carson Palmer from day one will certainly help get the ball rolling a little earlier. The quarterback position is set in stone for the Bengals. As is the running back position and the starting receivers. Chris Henry wonít be with the team for the first eight games, but they have some depth with Antonio Chatman and Tab Perry, both of whom battled injuries last season. They donít have much to offer in the passing game at tight-end, but they like the extra protection for Palmerís knees, but Reggie Kelly can get the job done well enough as a receiver. The offensive line lost Eric Steinbach to the Browns, but they still have their all-pro tackles as well as a bunch of young guys who can play as well and provide some depth. I think that the interior line will lead to a decrease in Rudi Johnsonís yards per carry and goal line efficiency, but he should still be able to run through the middle like he does so well. Pretty much the only thing that might stop them from putting up points is Palmer getting injured and even if he does a backup will be able to put up at least two scores for them probably.

The defense isnít great, but it is getting better. The line up front is average. Justin Smith is a good all around player who can rush the passer as well as stop the run. Robert Geathers is a good pass rusher and Frostee Rucker can contribute if he has no issues, he might get suspended though. The linebackers are young with a lot of potential. The defensive tackles are all pretty old aside from Domata Peko, a good young player who will see a lot of time on the field this season for the Bengals. Ahmad Brooks could have a huge year after gaining some understanding of what he is doing out there, he didnít get a training camp last year because he was in the supplemental draft. David Pollack is a good player and if he has no repercussions from his injury should be a very solid player. Rashad Jeanty, the expected starting SAM is a good player as well. Then they have Landon Johnson and Odell Thurman who both play pretty well, but Thurman might not end up being with the team next year. Edgerton Hartwell was signed, but he is kind of a question mark in terms of how he plays because he hasnít been consistent since leaving Baltimore. Caleb Miller and AJ Nicholson are both good players, but both might not see a lot of time behind all of the depth. The secondary got a good guy in Leon Hall. He might start as the number two guy, but more likely will be the third behind Deltha OíNeal. Jonathan Joseph is a very good young corner though and gets his hands on a lot of balls, if only they stuck. At safety they have Madieu Williams who can play and Dexter Jackson, who may not be what he was in the Bucs Super Bowl season, but he fits their defense well and is a good stop-gap until they can find his replacement. The defense has a lot of potential, and should cause a bunch of turnovers still and get the offense on the field. As long as they donít play like they did against the Chargers the defense should be alrights.

The Ravens offense is in a weird way. They have Steve McNair, who definitely isnít that good anymore, an odd situation with Kyle Boller who many think should get an opportunity and many have already labeled as a bust. Willis McGahee has a lot of face value, but really isnít worth the money unless his knees somehow got a few years younger. They lost Ovie Mughelli, a very good fullback, but brought in another good one in LeíRon McClain of Alabama. They have some good talent at receiver with a surging Mark Clayton, the young fiery Demetrius Williams and the veteran Derrick Mason. They have a great starting tight-end, Todd Heap, but not much depth to speak of behind those four receivers other than the fastest player in the draft, Yamon Figurs, who will probably only see time as a return man early on. The offensive line is trying to get younger, but I think the team needed to go after a tackle before a guard in the draft. Ben Grubbs is a hell of a player, but they really need to find Ogdenís replacement unless their entire scouting team is already watching tape on next years potential left tackles. I obviously donít have much faith in who they have as backup tackles. The interior should be fine though with Chris Chester moving to centre and Ben Grubbs playing one guard spot. Then I think they will end up with Keydrick Vincent at the other guard spot. This offense wonít blow you away, but if teams key on McGahee early, look for them to take advantage of their talent at receiver and try to get the ball to Clayton and Williams as much as possible.

The defense, you know their defense, the best defense in football, lead by the immortal god of football, Ray Lewis. The defensive front is still intact with Haloti Ngata, Kelly Gregg and Trevor Pryce with Terrell Suggs possibly putting his hand down on any given down. They also have depth with Justin Bannan and Dwan Edwards. Theyíve also got Jarrett Johnson who can play Suggsí role on defense as well who they resigned. Dan Cody should replace the departed Adalius Thomas. Inside you have Ray Lewis and Bart Scott who takes over the outside linebacker duties when they play the 43. The secondary is just incredible. Ed Reed just straight up dominates the safety position. He is like superman. Then they have Dawan Landry, a surprise star from last yearís draft. He should be even better this year now that he has the organized chaos down to a fine art. Chris McAllister is a top five corner in the NFL and even though he has gotten older is still playing at a very high level. Samari Rolle had some issues last year, but you are bound to be exposed when teams are afraid to throw at the other corner. The team has a lot of corners behind them like Corey Ivy and Ronnie Prude who see most of the action as backups. This defense will continue to dominate like it always does and keep them in games and ultimately win the Ravens most of their schedule. It is hard to get as many talented defenders as they do and I doubt many will be able to match them.

The Steelers are a little hard for me to read right now, but not as hard offensively. Big Ben will have all the glitches of the near-fatal accident out of the system probably. If he doesnít there is the faithful Charlie Batch backing him up who is a good backup quarterback. Fast Willie Parker will continue to get it done on the ground, hopefully for the Steelers he will do something more on the road games. Kevan Barlow and Najeh Davenport should battle it out in training camp and pre-season for goal line duties. Dan Kreider is a very good run blocker and will clear some holes for whoever has the ball in their mits. Hines Ward is still a very good receiver and helps out in all phases of the game and isnít afraid to run anywhere and will be good for near a thousand yards or more. Santonio Holmes will probably get off to a better start and then those 800 yards he caught for as a rookie wonít go unnoticed, hopefully he doesnít field punts, or at least gets some glue. Nate Washington and Cedrick Wilson are solid backups for them as well and can contribute. Heath Miller should get more balls thrown his way this season. He started off fantastically against the Dolphins, but nothing really happened after that. There is some good depth there as well with Jerame Tuman and Matt Spaeth. The offensive line isnít happy because Alan Faneca isnít happy, and well, he pretty much runs that offensive line. If he leaves it could be disastrous. Kendall Simmons isnít great and the only other quality player they have really is Marvel Smith. Max Starks is pretty good for a large mound of earth I guess. The offense will struggle if the offensive line struggles, and I have a feeling that it will unless then please Faneca. If Willie Parker gets injured they are doomed as well.

The defense, ugh, this is going to suck. Mike Tomlin isnít a 34 guy. Thankfully Dick Lebeau stayed to be the defensive coordinator though. The defensive front is Casey Hampton in the middle who is very very good at his job. Aaron Smith is almost as good as they get at his position as well. Brett Keisel isnít great though. Travis Kirschke isnít all that worthy either. Ryan McBean could be good for them as a 34 end though and I think he will get some playing time as a rookie. They brought in two outside linebackers with their first two picks in the draft when they picked up LaMarr Woodley and Lawrence Timmons. Both can be very good players, but I donít like Woodley as a linebacker, if they switch to a cover-2, he is a great fit as a pass rushing end. They have all the same guys though with James Farrior, Larry Foote and Clark Haggans. My money is on Timmons taking over where Porter left. James Harrison is a good contributor, as are most of the backups. The secondary is different too. Ike Taylor was pretty bad last year for the Steelers and was in the dog house. Ricardo Colclough was constantly in the dog house too. Deshea Townsend is consistently decent but is best suited as a nickel corner probably. Bryant McFadden and Ike Taylor will probably be the starters. Troy Polamalu is a great football player and one heck of a safety. Unfortunately he lost a lot of cred due to his injuries last year which really set him back. Anthony Smith will take the free safety spot and it seems like Steelers fans love him because they constantly rave about him and how he along with Polamalu will be a top ten, top five safety duo. The defense will really have to rely on confusion and blitz packages to be successful. The secondary is good, but the linebackers arenít great in coverage and if they canít get a pass rush and make quarterbacks uncomfortable teams are just going to pick on their average corner play.

The Browns are a really annoying franchise. I really hate their homer fans, but I like their players. Quarterback is deep with Quinn, Frye and the weirdo, Derek Anderson. I think that Frye will start the season for the Browns, but Quinn will take over at some point and make a lot of teams wish that they hadnít passed on him. He has some weapons to work with too and will have good coaching from the get go. Jay Lewis definitely wonít run for 2,000 again, but he could be good for around a four figure number. Oddly enough, he will have his fullback in front of him again, Alan Ricard who is alright. The depth at running back isnít good though. If William Green can play half decently, or even use any of his talent it will help a lot, and Jerome Harrison looked good in the preseason last year, so they have some potential behind JLew, but they have no guarantees. At receiver they have Braylon Edwards who should finally break out and prove worthy of his draft selection. Joe Jurevicius will probably be the number two receiver and he has good hands, which will prove to be a great asset for a young quarterback, much better than last years number two, his complete opposite, Dennis Northcutt was. Travis Wilson might get some PT this year for the Browns. After that it pretty much falls off though, not much depth at all. KW2 is a soldier, and we all know that. He will be good for who ever is at quarterback. I donít know if he can get them 89 receptions again, but I am going to guess that he can get them over ten yards per catch and more scores than this year. Behind him theyíve got Steve Heiden who is also a reliable option. The offensive line has vastly improved upon last year. They added Joe Thomas in the draft as well as Eric Steinbach in free agency. They should couple to become a very talented left side of the line and make some nice running lanes and block for whoever is behind them. Kevin Shaffer should take over at right tackle for Ryan Tucker, I think and then Seth McKinnie can take right guard to himself. There isnít really any depth up front though other than at right tackle where Shaffer and Tucker will battle it out. This offense is set up nicely, if Bentely recovers entirely for 2009 they will be set up up front to dominate. They should look for depth next year in the draft. If Edwards comes into his own and they can find a suitable number two to play with him this offense will move chains all day long in the near future, unfortunately, I donít believe this will be their year.

Defensively the Browns are a mess in the front and back, the middle is pretty good and hopefully that will help them a lot this year. Ted Washington is good for a few downs a game in the middle still. Then they have a bunch of question marks along side Washington as to who will get snaps at NT during the regular season. As of now it appears like Alvin Smith could take most of the snaps after Washington. The Ends arenít great either. Robaire Smith was a good acquisition for them because he has some experience playing there, and they have a lot of potential at end, but I donít think they will solve their puzzle up front this season, they will just conclude who to keep and who to throw out. At linebacker they have some skill though. Andra Davis is probably the veteran leader of the group and is a machine on the inside. Kamerion Wimbley quietly put up over ten sacks as a rookie last year for the Browns. DíQwell Jackson and Leon Williams are both good young guys on the inside and they have a nice three man rotation going there now. Willie McGinnest isnít anything to talk about really anymore, but he can help out the young guys and is a decent pass rusher. Then you have Chaun Thompson who is pretty good and Matt Stewart who is decent but doesnít fit the defense well. There are a lot of young guys who contribute on special teams behind them as well. The secondary is a bit of a wreck. Sean Jones is a future star safety and Leigh Bodden is very good, but was injured a lot last year. Gary Baxter is probably done for the Browns at this point. Eric Wright will have to play very well as a rookie to help this secondary out. Brodney Pool is a very athletic safety who if he fills out most of his potential could make for a fantastic duo with Jones. The young guys are going to have to elevate their game a lot if this defense is going to at least be respectable or else it will be up to the front seven to put a ridiculous amount of pressure on the opposing teams quarterbacks. This defense isnít near being done and I am sure that Romeo Crennel thought that he would have more talent on his defense by now when he took the job. This defense is still in pieces and I am willing to bet that Romeo will be gone before the defense is settled with good players who fit the positions. The defense will struggle and so will the offense, this team is too young and inexperienced to do anything significant yet. It is a lot harder for an inexperienced 34 defense to be decent than a 43 team so I am wondering how long it will take the Browns to have this team all set up defensively.

BengalsPwn
05-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Or, if they match their potential, you end up with a very good team, although I won't believe it until I see it, like I said I understand the Browns aren't likely to finish 3rd 2nd or 1st in the division, so stop just generalizing every Browns fan as one because they have some hope.

If you say they finish last in the division there is no possible way they will finish with any record close to what you guys keep claiming like 7-9 or 8-8. No last place team has ever had that kind of record so keep dreaming.

TitleTown088
05-13-2007, 03:22 PM
NFC north has th top 4 DT combos in the NFL according to this.....

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=205736

BengalsPwn
05-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Thats NFC only not the whole NFL. In the whole NFL its the Jags, nobody can touch Henderson/Stroud. Also, I hope that wasn't a point to say NFC north is the best because they are obviously the worst division in all of football.

PoopSandwich
05-13-2007, 04:43 PM
Double post my bad.

PoopSandwich
05-13-2007, 04:44 PM
If you say they finish last in the division there is no possible way they will finish with any record close to what you guys keep claiming like 7-9 or 8-8. No last place team has ever had that kind of record so keep dreaming.

....

I said 6-9 wins and that I don't EXPECT them to finish higher than 4th, that doesn't mean it will happen.

6 is what I expect, 7-9 would be if we don't get the string of bad luck that we always get.

Obviously if they get 7-9 wins theres a good chance they aren't last in the division...

Just keep generalizing everyone instead of actually dealing with the argument at hand and avoiding what others say :)

BigDawg819
05-13-2007, 04:55 PM
Bottomline this thread should not allow Browns' fans comments until they can field an actual decent team and until they reach a .500 record the conversation merely consists of the Ravens, the Bengals, and the Steelers in that order.

steelernation77
05-13-2007, 05:21 PM
I'll take all bets here that our running game will be better than you think, we will finish with a .500 record (give or take a game), and we don't finish last in the division, leaving that title to the Steelers, who if you haven't been paying attention, have some disgruntled players, are switching to a 4-3 defense, and have the most overrated QB of all time.



Well apparently you haven't been paying attention to the Steelers because we are not switching to a 4-3 defense this year and there has been no indications from any of the coaching staff that we will anytime soon.
We have a disgruntled guard, and quality backups behind him who could step in, although he will probably play out the last year of his contract. And please don't call Ben the most overrated QB because of one bad season that was marred by injury, especially since you Stains fans think a rookie QB is your savior.
You have no reasons at all to think the Browns will be better than the Steelers.

Oh yeah, we own you.
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/09/steelerimage22.jpg

And also the guy who said Bret Keisel is bad has no idea what he's talking about. He was solid last year and one of the few bright spots of the D. Also, Woodley is a prototypical 3-4 LOLB in the Steelers scheme.

keylime_5
05-13-2007, 05:25 PM
Bottomline this thread should not allow Browns' fans comments until they can field an actual decent team and until they reach a .500 record the conversation merely consists of the Ravens, the Bengals, and the Steelers in that order.

Ravens fans shouldn't be allowed on this thread either until they develop a winning history as rich as Cleveland's. If it wasn't for Browns then there would be no ravens so be more grateful, team robber. :)

BigDawg819
05-13-2007, 05:30 PM
Ravens fans shouldn't be allowed on this thread either until they develop a winning history as rich as Cleveland's. If it wasn't for Browns then there would be no ravens so be more grateful, team robber. :)

We didn't steal a team clown, that was Indianapolis so get your facts right. You lost your team because your city was too cheap and are just still mad that we have a Super Bowl title while all your team has is the memory of Jim Brown! Your winning history as you describe certainly isn't with this incarnation of the Browns so stop posting since you are obviously delusional.

Ravens1991
05-13-2007, 07:34 PM
We didn't steal a team clown, that was Indianapolis so get your facts right. You lost your team because your city was too cheap and are just still mad that we have a Super Bowl title while all your team has is the memory of Jim Brown! Your winning history as you describe certainly isn't with this incarnation of the Browns so stop posting since you are obviously delusional.

Dang, keylime was joking, I am not sure if you were serious or not but I got a chuckle out of that anyway.

BigDawg819
05-13-2007, 07:53 PM
Dang, keylime was joking, I am not sure if you were serious or not but I got a chuckle out of that anyway.

I am always here for the entertainment value. :D

kalbears13
05-13-2007, 09:35 PM
Well apparently you haven't been paying attention to the Steelers because we are not switching to a 4-3 defense this year and there has been no indications from any of the coaching staff that we will anytime soon.
We have a disgruntled guard, and quality backups behind him who could step in, although he will probably play out the last year of his contract. And please don't call Ben the most overrated QB because of one bad season that was marred by injury, especially since you Stains fans think a rookie QB is your savior.
You have no reasons at all to think the Browns will be better than the Steelers.

Oh yeah, we own you.
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2006/09/steelerimage22.jpg

And also the guy who said Bret Keisel is bad has no idea what he's talking about. He was solid last year and one of the few bright spots of the D. Also, Woodley is a prototypical 3-4 LOLB in the Steelers scheme.


http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/kaddyescalade/winslowporter.jpg

steelernation77
05-13-2007, 10:51 PM
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/kaddyescalade/winslowporter.jpg

Didn't want to include Winslow getting laid out later in the game? Or maybe one of his cheap shots to players backs?

Steelers 27 Browns 7

"Yeah, I don't give a hell. It's about this U, man. I don't give a flyin' you-know-what about a Vol. I don't give a damn! He would do the same thing to me. It's war. They don't give a freakin' you-know-what about you. They will kill you. They're out there to kill you. So I'm 'a kill 'em. You write that in the paper. You write that. You make money off that. No, man, I'm pissed. All y'all take this down. I'm pissed, man. We don't care about nobody except this U. We don't. If I didn't hurt him, he'd hurt me. They were gunnin' for my legs. I'm 'a come right back at 'em. I'm a f***** soldier!"

Real class act.

mcdlaxbonz13
05-13-2007, 11:29 PM
just letting you know that game where winslow is throwing porter off him is the one in cleveland not the 27-7 beating the browns received in pittsburgh where winslow gave i think it was farrior, maybe foot don't remember who the cheap shot in the back

bearsfan_51
05-13-2007, 11:38 PM
We didn't steal a team clown, that was Indianapolis so get your facts right. You lost your team because your city was too cheap and are just still mad that we have a Super Bowl title while all your team has is the memory of Jim Brown! Your winning history as you describe certainly isn't with this incarnation of the Browns so stop posting since you are obviously delusional.

If you honestly believe this your knowledge of the history of football is pathetic.

Mr. Stiller
05-14-2007, 01:39 AM
The Steelers are a little hard for me to read right now, but not as hard offensively. Big Ben will have all the glitches of the near-fatal accident out of the system probably. If he doesnít there is the faithful Charlie Batch backing him up who is a good backup quarterback. Fast Willie Parker will continue to get it done on the ground, hopefully for the Steelers he will do something more on the road games. Kevan Barlow and Najeh Davenport should battle it out in training camp and pre-season for goal line duties. Dan Kreider is a very good run blocker and will clear some holes for whoever has the ball in their mits. Hines Ward is still a very good receiver and helps out in all phases of the game and isnít afraid to run anywhere and will be good for near a thousand yards or more. Santonio Holmes will probably get off to a better start and then those 800 yards he caught for as a rookie wonít go unnoticed, hopefully he doesnít field punts, or at least gets some glue. Nate Washington and Cedrick Wilson are solid backups for them as well and can contribute. Heath Miller should get more balls thrown his way this season. He started off fantastically against the Dolphins, but nothing really happened after that. There is some good depth there as well with Jerame Tuman and Matt Spaeth. The offensive line isnít happy because Alan Faneca isnít happy, and well, he pretty much runs that offensive line. If he leaves it could be disastrous. Kendall Simmons isnít great and the only other quality player they have really is Marvel Smith. Max Starks is pretty good for a large mound of earth I guess. The offense will struggle if the offensive line struggles, and I have a feeling that it will unless then please Faneca. If Willie Parker gets injured they are doomed as well.

Don't forget Willie Reid, Our Return Specialist, Drafted Rd 3 of 2006 is healthy again, so don't worry about our ST's. Heath Miller didn't get a chance to go out for receptions because he was stuck blocking For Max. I would think between Spaeth and Colon (TE and RT respectively) that Right side will be fixed. Colon held off Pryce and Thomas in his first start so, He has the potential.


The defense, ugh, this is going to suck. Mike Tomlin isnít a 34 guy. Thankfully Dick Lebeau stayed to be the defensive coordinator though. The defensive front is Casey Hampton in the middle who is very very good at his job. Aaron Smith is almost as good as they get at his position as well. Brett Keisel isnít great though.

You'll never see Keisel at a Pro-Bowl, but he's damn good.

40 Tackles, 3 Sacks, 1 Fumble Recovery
55 Tackles, 5.5 Sacks, 1 Fumble Recovery

Guess which one is Richard Seymours (All-Pro/Pro-Bowler) and which one is Keisels.. I'll give you a hint.. Seymour only had 40 tackles.

Travis Kirschke isnít all that worthy either. Ryan McBean could be good for them as a 34 end though and I think he will get some playing time as a rookie. They brought in two outside linebackers with their first two picks in the draft when they picked up LaMarr Woodley and Lawrence Timmons. Both can be very good players, but I donít like Woodley as a linebacker, if they switch to a cover-2, he is a great fit as a pass rushing end. They have all the same guys though with James Farrior, Larry Foote and Clark Haggans. My money is on Timmons taking over where Porter left. James Harrison is a good contributor, as are most of the backups.

People don't think Woodley can play LOLB in our system, but thats bunk... The Michigan 3-4 was designed from the Pittsburgh 3-4. So Woodley's years in the 3-4, he played the same position he will for us, so he has experience, plus people say he's too slow. Well Haggans was our LOLB for I believe the last 5 years, he ran a 5.04 40' and ungodly slow SS and 3-Cone times, Woodley is way faster, they're both stiff in the hips, and I'm not saying he'll be great in coverage, but he's a better pass rusher/run stopper than Haggans and he's much much faster. James Harrison is the starter and he's a beast. He's not mouthy like Porter, but he's just as Fiery. Timmons hasn't really been given a clear-cut position. They're looking at Mack and ROLB.. though they said they may move him around like they do Troy, so thats another thing to watch out for. Harrison is the starter at ROLB, and ironically every game he started for the Steelers in his career, he was the leader in Tackles and sacks for the game, so, FWIW.

The secondary is different too. Ike Taylor was pretty bad last year for the Steelers and was in the dog house. Ricardo Colclough was constantly in the dog house too. Deshea Townsend is consistently decent but is best suited as a nickel corner probably. Bryant McFadden and Ike Taylor will probably be the starters. Troy Polamalu is a great football player and one heck of a safety. Unfortunately he lost a lot of cred due to his injuries last year which really set him back. Anthony Smith will take the free safety spot and it seems like Steelers fans love him because they constantly rave about him and how he along with Polamalu will be a top ten, top five safety duo. The defense will really have to rely on confusion and blitz packages to be successful. The secondary is good, but the linebackers arenít great in coverage and if they canít get a pass rush and make quarterbacks uncomfortable teams are just going to pick on their average corner play.

Timmons is solid in coverage, as is Farrior. Haggans not so much and Foote is more of a plugger.

If I had to call it.. watch for us to run a cover 2 scheme on 3rd downs with Woodley sliding up along Aaron Smith, Foote to SLB, Farrior at MLB and Harrison/Timmons at WLB.

I'm not saying we'll have a top 10/5 duo of safeties yet. But Anthony Smith nearly killed JR Reid in the pre-season, he had 2 INT's in 3 games that he started (along with 18 tackles), not to mention the #5 Jacked Up hit of the season...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c342/PittFan86/smith02.gif

I think everyone is forgetting how good of a DB coach Tomlin was.

Supposedly William G@@Y (Scott turn that word filter off!), is goign to push DeShea at Nickel, though Ryan Clark/Tyrone Carter can also play Nickel as well.

Don't forget Field position, we get Reid back for KR, Najeh was a damn good KR on kickoffs as well.. and we added Sepulveda.. no more 22 yard punts!

Mr. Stiller
05-14-2007, 01:43 AM
just letting you know that game where winslow is throwing porter off him is the one in cleveland not the 27-7 beating the browns received in pittsburgh where winslow gave i think it was farrior, maybe foot don't remember who the cheap shot in the back

I believe it was a short pass to Braylon or Joe J. and after he was out of bounds, Winslow cheap shotted Farrior in the back... The next play, They put Winslow on a slant and Curl Pattern right in front of Farrior and he got knocked into next week.

I don't think anything was better than when Anthony Smith layed KWII out.

Who Dey
05-14-2007, 05:11 AM
People don't think Woodley can play LOLB in our system, but thats bunk... The Michigan 3-4 was designed from the Pittsburgh 3-4. So Woodley's years in the 3-4, he played the same position he will for us, so he has experience, plus people say he's too slow.

Michigan abandoned the 3-4 pretty much because of Woodley. He played much better with his hand on the ground. Thats not to say he can't play LB, but I don't think he will be anything special at that position. He performed much better as a 4-3 DE.

BigDawg819
05-14-2007, 07:52 AM
If you honestly believe this your knowledge of the history of football is pathetic.

Well since it was a response to a comical statement my beliefs were not in question but the it was based on facts.

The "New" Cleveland Browns, the ones that were brought back in 1999, do not have a winning record.

Financial disagreements over a new stadium were a major contributing factor to Modell moving the franchise to Baltimore.

The Colts in essence were stolen from the city of Baltimore in the dead of night, whereas Modell announced his intentions to Cleveland and the world prior to moving to Baltimore.

So as for your pathetic statement, maybe it wasn't my post that was pathetic maybe it was someone trying to come in with a quick one liner that was lacking instead?

steelernation77
05-14-2007, 08:22 AM
just letting you know that game where winslow is throwing porter off him is the one in cleveland not the 27-7 beating the browns received in pittsburgh where winslow gave i think it was farrior, maybe foot don't remember who the cheap shot in the back

Either way the Steelers won.

I'm sorry but Steelers' fans don't really cling to things like cheap shots for fleeting moments of glory.

PoopSandwich
05-14-2007, 11:22 AM
I believe it was a short pass to Braylon or Joe J. and after he was out of bounds, Winslow cheap shotted Farrior in the back... The next play, They put Winslow on a slant and Curl Pattern right in front of Farrior and he got knocked into next week.


I'm pretty sure it was a short pass to Droughns and I don't think K2 knew the play was over, but nonetheless it was late.

And yes, Farrior destroyed Winslow.

j_Tress
05-14-2007, 11:43 AM
where are the mods at? none of this is productive or interesting to read.

BigDawg819
05-14-2007, 11:55 AM
where are the mods at? none of this is productive or interesting to read.

The only non productive and uninteresting post I've seen is yours so maybe you should just stay away from this thread...

Ravens1991
05-14-2007, 07:29 PM
Who do you all think will be the AFC north rushing leader? I think it can be a good battle between Rudi, Willie, and Willis.

Mr. Stiller
05-14-2007, 07:40 PM
Michigan abandoned the 3-4 pretty much because of Woodley. He played much better with his hand on the ground. Thats not to say he can't play LB, but I don't think he will be anything special at that position. He performed much better as a 4-3 DE.

Hes an upgrade over Haggans. He'll also be our "Jason Taylor" a guy that will seamlessly switch from 3-4 LOLB to 4-3 LDE.

Mr. Stiller
05-14-2007, 07:44 PM
Who do you all think will be the AFC north rushing leader? I think it can be a good battle between Rudi, Willie, and Willis.

This will sound like homerism, but read my points.

Cincy has 4 Solid Runningbacks.. they have Johnson, Perry and Irons..I expect Johnson to lose some Carries...

Also Cincy lost Henry for 8 games and he was a key cog on 3rd downs... that could be the nail in the coffin.

Willis hasn't run over 1300 yards yet, and has never finished a full 16-game season. Add that to the fact that Baltimore lost the right side of their oline to Free-Agency (Though they added rookies and still have Ogden) I don't think Willis is a powerful enough runner to be "Their type of RB". Frankly I was more worried about Jamal Lewis, because he would run over people.. Willis doesn't.

So, I have to go with Parker. He was 6 yards away from 1500, doesn't have an injury history (Knock on wood) and we're basically designing an offensive scheme around him. So, thats my thoughts.

kalbears13
05-14-2007, 07:56 PM
Cincy has 4 Solid Runningbacks.. they have Johnson, Perry and Irons..I expect Johnson to lose some Carries...

Who's the fourth? Sam Adams?

Ravens1991
05-14-2007, 07:58 PM
The Ravens are switching to more athletic olineman so they will suit Willis better then Jamal. Besides with those talented RB you really cant call anybody a homer.

bearsfan_51
05-14-2007, 08:03 PM
Well since it was a response to a comical statement my beliefs were not in question but the it was based on facts.

The "New" Cleveland Browns, the ones that were brought back in 1999, do not have a winning record.

Financial disagreements over a new stadium were a major contributing factor to Modell moving the franchise to Baltimore.

The Colts in essence were stolen from the city of Baltimore in the dead of night, whereas Modell announced his intentions to Cleveland and the world prior to moving to Baltimore.

So as for your pathetic statement, maybe it wasn't my post that was pathetic maybe it was someone trying to come in with a quick one liner that was lacking instead?
The Cleveland Browns are the Cleveland Browns. They had a great history prior to the move. To try to sum it down to Jim Brown is either flippent or ignorant. Maybe both.

As for the moving stuff that's just a matter of perspective. I think Modell had the right to move the Browns, but I think he was a little ***** about it, which was part of the problem.

I will say this though...as for the Colts stuff...shut up. I'm so sick of people from Baltimore still crying about the Colts but trying to rationalize the move of the Browns. First of all it was 25 years ago. Absolutely none of you that post on this board remember the Baltimore Colts. But the worst of it is to act as if there's any differentiation. Baltimore knew well in advance that there were financing problems with the Irsay's and did nothing about it. The time of night that the team moved has nothing to do with it.

Mr. Stiller
05-14-2007, 08:10 PM
Who's the fourth? Sam Adams?

Kenny Watson.

niel89
05-14-2007, 09:37 PM
The Cleveland Browns are the Cleveland Browns. They had a great history prior to the move. To try to sum it down to Jim Brown is either flippent or ignorant. Maybe both.

As for the moving stuff that's just a matter of perspective. I think Modell had the right to move the Browns, but I think he was a little ***** about it, which was part of the problem.

I will say this though...as for the Colts stuff...shut up. I'm so sick of people from Baltimore still crying about the Colts but trying to rationalize the move of the Browns. First of all it was 25 years ago. Absolutely none of you that post on this board remember the Baltimore Colts. But the worst of it is to act as if there's any differentiation. Baltimore knew well in advance that there were financing problems with the Irsay's and did nothing about it. The time of night that the team moved has nothing to do with it.

I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

PalmerToCJ
05-14-2007, 10:05 PM
This will sound like homerism, but read my points.

Cincy has 4 Solid Runningbacks.. they have Johnson, Perry and Irons..I expect Johnson to lose some Carries...

Also Cincy lost Henry for 8 games and he was a key cog on 3rd downs... that could be the nail in the coffin.

Willis hasn't run over 1300 yards yet, and has never finished a full 16-game season. Add that to the fact that Baltimore lost the right side of their oline to Free-Agency (Though they added rookies and still have Ogden) I don't think Willis is a powerful enough runner to be "Their type of RB". Frankly I was more worried about Jamal Lewis, because he would run over people.. Willis doesn't.

So, I have to go with Parker. He was 6 yards away from 1500, doesn't have an injury history (Knock on wood) and we're basically designing an offensive scheme around him. So, thats my thoughts.

I do agree with you.

Rudi is finally going to get some breathers via Irons. Perry will start off on the PUP so I don't think he'll factor in big. Rudi's YPC should go up but his carries should go down so I expect production around last year in terms of yardage.

Willis I'm not sold on, I think health could be a factor and he's not a top back. With that said.... He's definetely an upgrade on Jamal.

Parker is carrying the load on a rushing team, I see no reason why if healthy he won't rush for the most yards.

keylime_5
05-14-2007, 10:06 PM
Who do you all think will be the AFC north rushing leader? I think it can be a good battle between Rudi, Willie, and Willis.

I wish I could say Jamal Lewis, but I don't see that happening even behind Cleveland's newer better line with a new OC. I say it's gonna be Willie Parker again.

Mr. Stiller
05-14-2007, 10:41 PM
I wish I could say Jamal Lewis, but I don't see that happening even behind Cleveland's newer better line with a new OC. I say it's gonna be Willie Parker again.

If he gets re-signed and they draft a mid-round RB to couple with him, i could see it, but Jerome Harrison is not an answer as a backup in the AFC North.

Look at the backups around the AFC North.

Najeh Davenport/Kevan Barlow/Carey Davis/Gary Russell all are atleast 220-230 lbs..

Same with Perry/Irons/Watson

Same with Musa Smith/Mike Anderson..

The Unless the browns get some sort of passing game going, teams are going to be able to stuff Jamal.

j_Tress
05-14-2007, 11:59 PM
The only non productive and uninteresting post I've seen is yours so maybe you should just stay away from this thread...

big talk coming from some guy over the internet.

all i'm saying is the team bashing is boring, and nobody's gonna win that.

ccB
05-15-2007, 12:02 AM
In the end arent we all just guys on the internet?

BigDawg819
05-15-2007, 08:04 AM
big talk coming from some guy over the internet.

all i'm saying is the team bashing is boring, and nobody's gonna win that.

All I'm saying is your trying to whine in a thread where people who are fans of rival teams are actually getting along and having an intelligent conversation. Bottomline just ignore this thread and you will be happier.

Bengals1690
05-15-2007, 10:32 AM
Didn't want to include Winslow getting laid out later in the game? Or maybe one of his cheap shots to players backs?

Steelers 27 Browns 7

"Yeah, I don't give a hell. It's about this U, man. I don't give a flyin' you-know-what about a Vol. I don't give a damn! He would do the same thing to me. It's war. They don't give a freakin' you-know-what about you. They will kill you. They're out there to kill you. So I'm 'a kill 'em. You write that in the paper. You write that. You make money off that. No, man, I'm pissed. All y'all take this down. I'm pissed, man. We don't care about nobody except this U. We don't. If I didn't hurt him, he'd hurt me. They were gunnin' for my legs. I'm 'a come right back at 'em. I'm a f***** soldier!"

Real class act.

seems his pissed because of all the cheap shots steelers hand out....yes this is a kimo reference, and yes im still bitter.

keylime_5
05-15-2007, 10:37 AM
If he gets re-signed and they draft a mid-round RB to couple with him, i could see it, but Jerome Harrison is not an answer as a backup in the AFC North.

Look at the backups around the AFC North.

Najeh Davenport/Kevan Barlow/Carey Davis/Gary Russell all are atleast 220-230 lbs..

Same with Perry/Irons/Watson

Same with Musa Smith/Mike Anderson..

The Unless the browns get some sort of passing game going, teams are going to be able to stuff Jamal.

The only Steelers backs you mentioned who are gonna make that team are Davenport and Barlow, so.... Oh yeah, and Irons weighs about 198 or so. And even if the Browns get some passing game going, teams will probably stuff Jamal anyway.

steelernation77
05-15-2007, 11:29 AM
seems his pissed because of all the cheap shots steelers hand out....yes this is a kimo reference, and yes im still bitter.

That was an accident and anyone watching with any objectivity could see it.

Mr. Stiller
05-15-2007, 12:09 PM
seems his pissed because of all the cheap shots steelers hand out....yes this is a kimo reference, and yes im still bitter.

I actually applaud Kimo... If you watch, he was falling and tried with everything in his power to turn out of the way. Kimo was a great guy, former Bengal and IMO would be the last person on that defense to cheapshot. Porters gone so I can't think of a cheap shot artist on our defense with him out.

I think we're a really classy team and I can't remember a guy since the 70's that was bad with cheapshots. But in the 70's, everyone cheap shotted.

Smooth Criminal
05-15-2007, 02:01 PM
The only Steelers backus you mentioned who is gonna make that team are Davenport and Barlow, so.... Oh yeah, and Irons weighs about 198 or so. And even if the Browns get some passing game going, teams will probably stuff Jamal anyway.

One of the other two will aswell. We will have 4 RBs so unless you think Kuhn makes it one of those two guys will be on the team.

Bengals1690
05-15-2007, 03:14 PM
That was an accident and anyone watching with any objectivity could see it.

i know. but you cant stop me being bitter lol.


POST 1000!!! WOOT WOOT. only 23000 away from draftguru.

terribletowel39
05-15-2007, 03:16 PM
i would be bitter too. i mean the same team knocking you out of the playoffs two years in a row.

i personally have never felt what that feels like but i can only imagine. don't stop being bitter it will probably happen again this year. :D

Smooth Criminal
05-17-2007, 05:45 PM
http://www.steelernation.com/forums//attachment.php?attachmentid=9270&d=1179427103

I saw this on a steeler forum and just had to bring it here.

Anyone wanna make this into sig size for me?

terribletowel39
05-17-2007, 06:01 PM
thats pretty bad ass. i will see what i can get one of my roomates to do for you. pm me so i remember when i sign in once i get home. (rubs hands mischeviously, thinking about stealing it while laughing) muwahahaha

themaninblack
05-17-2007, 06:35 PM
rudi may not lead the AFCN in rushing but the War Eagle duo shall combine for around 1600-1800 yards HAHA!

terribletowel39
05-17-2007, 06:40 PM
rudi may not lead the AFCN in rushing but the War Eagle duo shall combine for around 1600-1800 yards HAHA!
a good comedian never laughs at his own jokes.

Bengals1690
05-18-2007, 05:43 PM
i absoluletly refuse to let this fall to the second page. Cmon, AFC North fans. Our NFC counterpart's thread has more posts than this one. we should be ashamed

terribletowel39
05-18-2007, 05:47 PM
are you serious 50% of the forum is made up of NFC East fans. we would have to constantly post straight BS to even make an attempt to keep up with them.

Bengals1690
05-18-2007, 05:51 PM
are you serious 50% of the forum is made up of NFC East fans. we would have to constantly post straight BS to even make an attempt to keep up with them.

im talking about the NFC North, the worst divsion in football.


idc how much bull crap would have to be put in here. we will have more posts than the NFC North thread. lets get an argument started!


The Steelers blow! The got absolutley no pass rush last year and i am a better corner than Ike Taylor!!

(now show stats that are manipulated to show your argument in a better light. Thats what they do in the NFC East thread.)

terribletowel39
05-18-2007, 05:56 PM
i have a question for all the other AFC north fans other than the steelers. do each of you dislike the Steelers the most?? like as a Brown, Bengals and Ravens fan, do you hate the Steelers the most?? i think that is how it is even with the players. i think all three of those teams hate the steelers the most.

Bengals1690
05-18-2007, 05:59 PM
i have a question for all the other AFC north fans other than the steelers. do each of you dislike the Steelers the most?? like as a Brown, Bengals and Ravens fan, do you hate the Steelers the most?? i think that is how it is even with the players. i think all three of those teams hate the steelers the most.

it was the ravens, but that was until the KVO incident. Plus, all the people down here in Knoxille Tennessee who "Have really been a steeler fan all there life" must have only found there Pittsburgh shirts after the steelers made there miracle run. The same people now are wearing colts shirts. god i hate bandwagoners.

terribletowel39
05-18-2007, 06:02 PM
i'm not good with my acronyms. what is the KVO incident??

nevermind, i got it now. still bitter about the the knee.

Bengals1690
05-18-2007, 06:03 PM
i'm not good with my acronyms. what is the KVO incident??

Kimo Van Olhoffen or however you spell it


im not mad at him. im sure he tried to not do it. but i feel better being bitter about it and saying "if Carson was in the game, we would have one the Super Bowl.".

themaninblack
05-18-2007, 06:34 PM
a good comedian never laughs at his own jokes.

who ever claimed to be a good comedian? and who took the gem out of your donut. just salty y'all are gonna get owned twice this season?

terribletowel39
05-18-2007, 06:36 PM
you can't be serious?? i can't even believe i am responding to your comment its so ridiculous.

Mr. Stiller
05-19-2007, 12:22 PM
who ever claimed to be a good comedian? and who took the gem out of your donut. just salty y'all are gonna get owned twice this season?

How many seasons have we been "Owned twice" by the same team?

Losses:
01 - Jax, Balt, Cincy
02 - NE, Oak, NO, Ten, Houston (We owned Balt Twice, WITH TOMMY MADDOX!)
03 - KC, Cincy, Ten, Cle, Den, STL, Sea, SF, Cincy, NY, Bal (Cincy 2x, with Tommy maddox)
04 - Bal - Would've won had Ben started
05 - NE, Jax, Bal, IND, Cin, - Won Superbowl.


We've lost to the same team twice in the past 5-6 years. You have lost to us twice in 02, Same with Cle/Cincy. Had Ben Started in 04, could've well had beaten you twice in 04 as well.

themaninblack
05-20-2007, 08:47 PM
i was talking about the coming year, but whatever you wanna do. ill just say you lost to Jon Kitna at home, wow.

Smooth Criminal
05-20-2007, 09:28 PM
How many times did Stewart or Maddox beat you guys?

Mr. Stiller
05-21-2007, 09:36 AM
i was talking about the coming year, but whatever you wanna do. ill just say you lost to Jon Kitna at home, wow.

Kitna is still in the league.. Maddox can't even make it as a 3rd stringer.. he was our starter..

Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox.. them some great QB's. The sad thing is our worst season with them was 6-10.

niel89
05-21-2007, 03:32 PM
http://www.yinzluvsteelers.com/storage/tommy-maddox-cereal-box.jpg

Smooth Criminal
05-21-2007, 08:00 PM
I remember when everyone in Pittsburgh thought he was a great QB. Really puts into perspective just how bad our QB situation was between Bradshaw and Ben.

keylime_5
05-21-2007, 10:16 PM
i have a question for all the other AFC north fans other than the steelers. do each of you dislike the Steelers the most?? like as a Brown, Bengals and Ravens fan, do you hate the Steelers the most?? i think that is how it is even with the players. i think all three of those teams hate the steelers the most.

I think I hate the Ravens the most, but when we play Pittsburgh that's when I get the most excited to win. In other words I really want us to beat PIttsburgh when we play them more than any other team. I dislike PIttsburgh, but I gotta respect their classy organization and the fact that they play a great style of football with good defense and great lines, and running the ball smashmouth style like at Ohio State. But I can't stand the Ratbirds.

757Dawg
05-21-2007, 10:22 PM
I feel the same.

I probably 'hate' the Ravens more so than the Steelers, but when we play the Steelers, I want us to beat them more than any other team.

The Rivalry has been a joke for way too long now. Hopefully we can bring it back to where it should be and kick off the season with a big win against them in Cleveland on September 9th.

Mr. Stiller
05-22-2007, 12:21 AM
I remember when everyone in Pittsburgh thought he was a great QB. Really puts into perspective just how bad our QB situation was between Bradshaw and Ben.

"Hope is the thin thread we hang our dreams on".

Apparently Tommy's, Neils' and Kordell's thread was too thin.

AFC Norths Opinion.

Is Ben a top 10 QB and Top 10 in arm strength. Bias Aside. I want to hear opinions from the teams who've seen him the most.

kalbears13
05-22-2007, 12:23 AM
"Hope is the thin thread we hang our dreams on".

Apparently Tommy's, Neils' and Kordell's thread was too thin.

AFC Norths Opinion.

Is Ben a top 10 QB and Top 10 in arm strength. Bias Aside. I want to hear opinions from the teams who've seen him the most.

I wouldn't consider him to be a Top 10 but darn close. He's definitely one of the more successful quarterbacks, probably in the top 5 in success if you don't have last season.

BigDawg819
05-22-2007, 12:27 AM
"Hope is the thin thread we hang our dreams on".

Apparently Tommy's, Neils' and Kordell's thread was too thin.

AFC Norths Opinion.

Is Ben a top 10 QB and Top 10 in arm strength. Bias Aside. I want to hear opinions from the teams who've seen him the most.

Ben prior to last season: Debateable

Ben last season: Hell NO!

He has a lot to prove this upcoming season and the Steelers' hopes for a successful season cling on him proving something.

Mr. Stiller
05-22-2007, 12:33 AM
Ben prior to last season: Debateable

Ben last season: Hell NO!

He has a lot to prove this upcoming season and the Steelers' hopes for a successful season cling on him proving something.

Looking at last season, does anyone honestly think that Anyone but Parker was playing at their normal level?

we gave up 9 sacks in 1 game, thats more than the first half of his 2 prior seasons.

I think there was a lot of **** going on last year.

Like I said though, I'm not trying to make excuses for him and I know that He needs to work, I'll be the first to say that. I just hate how people think he's the most incapable QB in the pro's.

kalbears13
05-22-2007, 12:35 AM
I just hate how people think he's the most incapable QB in the pro's.

Woah...so far...we have that spot.

BigDawg819
05-22-2007, 12:38 AM
Looking at last season, does anyone honestly think that Anyone but Parker was playing at their normal level?

we gave up 9 sacks in 1 game, thats more than the first half of his 2 prior seasons.

I think there was a lot of **** going on last year.

Like I said though, I'm not trying to make excuses for him and I know that He needs to work, I'll be the first to say that. I just hate how people think he's the most incapable QB in the pro's.

I never said he was incapable but after his first 2 seasons and then the nightmare that was last season, he has to prove that he is the Ben of old and not just a flash in the pan. With his mounting injuries last season, lack of protection, and the loss of Bettis and Randle El, its not surprising that the Steelers fell of like they did. They could possibly be entering a rebuilding mode and that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for them.

Mr. Stiller
05-22-2007, 12:45 AM
I wouldn't consider him to be a Top 10 but darn close. He's definitely one of the more successful quarterbacks, probably in the top 5 in success if you don't have last season.

I think judging by:

Arm Strength, Leadership, Talent, Achievements..

He's in the 6-11 Range. Only because of last season.

he's 34-14 Career with a 5-1 Postseason record. Thats a 63% winning average. In a given season he's going to win 11 Games.

He's won OROY, Youngest QB to win more than 10 Straight games (16), Youngest QB to win a superbowl.

But I agree last year knocked him down a notch (Though I think there was more than just bad play by him.. Coaching not caring, fumbles on punt returns (Anyone have a clue how many? 11 fumbles on punt returns, not even KR).)

If he does well in Arians new offense (Which is basically a half copy of New England, Indianapolis, and the offense he cooked up in Cleveland), and Faneca Plays hard, we could very well be a dark horse.

themaninblack
05-23-2007, 09:30 PM
Kitna is still in the league.. Maddox can't even make it as a 3rd stringer.. he was our starter..

Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox.. them some great QB's. The sad thing is our worst season with them was 6-10.

my point was we were terrible and you had an older version of big ben with all three of them essentially because of your defense.

niel89
05-23-2007, 10:07 PM
my point was we were terrible and you had an older version of big ben with all three of them essentially because of your defense.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Mr. Stiller
05-23-2007, 11:33 PM
my point was we were terrible and you had an older version of big ben with all three of them essentially because of your defense.

I'll give you O'Donnell, Stewart.. Maddox showed that because he's incompetent that the defense can't always bail you out.

And to compare Ben to any of those three, just proves you shouldn't comment on football.

Smooth Criminal
05-24-2007, 02:44 PM
Maddox found ways to lose in spite of having a good defense. Best example is his OT performance against Jacksonville where he threw two INTs. After the defense bailed him out of the first one the second went back for a touchdown.