New York Jets Discussion

[GET LOOSE]

I'm just spit-ballin here, but what if he just isn't very good and it showed when he played against better competition? Don't get me wrong, I was high on the guy prior to this week and i still think he posesses the tools, but he looked aweful this week and we don't need another reciever to drop passes. Jmac did enough of that this year to last us for two seasons.

uggggg...dont remind me about...about well you know who....saying his name might be bad luck

[TimD]

Jets Lone Pro Bowler..... is a cheerleader

http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/articles/show/2056--big-dance-linda-s-arrives-in-two-weeks

[thetedginnshow]

I'm just spit-ballin here, but what if he just isn't very good and it showed when he played against better competition? Don't get me wrong, I was high on the guy prior to this week and i still think he posesses the tools, but he looked aweful this week and we don't need another reciever to drop passes. Jmac did enough of that this year to last us for two seasons.

I think that would make more sense if he played for a mid-major or a D2 school, but he played in the Big 12 South, and had some fairly big games against top competition. And it's not as if size-wise he's less than impressive, because he's probably the opposite of that. I'm sure he was just nervous. Of course, he could very well be this year's Derek Hagan, but I still like him and definitely would want him on our team.

[GET LOOSE]

I think that would make more sense if he played for a mid-major or a D2 school, but he played in the Big 12 South, and had some fairly big games against top competition. And it's not as if size-wise he's less than impressive, because he's probably the opposite of that. I'm sure he was just nervous. Of course, he could very well be this year's Derek Hagan, but I still like him and definitely would want him on our team.



yea he has played against good compitition and i dont think thats his problem...i think he is just a little rusty and this is a very big stage...im sure he will start playing better

[Bluedevil$]

yea i would love to see a WR 6'3 or higher that can be a big red zone threat to go along with cotchery and stucky in a couple of years...as for jordy nelson he his tall but does not play like it so i would not like to draft him...i want a WR that can streach the feild and that clemens can throw it up and make him go get it...that would be a great combo with cotch and stucky who are good at YAC
what about James Hardy? I keep seeing his name as a 2nd/3rd round pick. If he somehow slips to the 3rd, he'd be a huge steal. WR isn't the most pressing need, but we wouldn't be able to pass him up.

[Crickett]

what about James Hardy? I keep seeing his name as a 2nd/3rd round pick. If he somehow slips to the 3rd, he'd be a huge steal. WR isn't the most pressing need, but we wouldn't be able to pass him up.

I'd say it depends who the Jets get in free agency. As of now though, I don't want to see them draft anyone who isn't.

A. An offensive lineman
B. A defensive linemen
C. A rush linebacker

day one.

[Bluedevil$]

which is why I said WR isn't a pressing need..

In the case that Hardy goes before the 3rd (most likely the case), I'd say:

1. Gholston
2. DE/RT/NT (Moore? Balmer? Chris Williams?)
3. OG (Albert would be nice)

[derza222]

No OL, DL, or rush OLB on old day one or new day one? As of right now I completely agree, at least for the first two rounds and without seeing any FA. If we make some moves there I think it gives us a little flexibility. I definitely like the idea of Albert though, and I'm starting to think it's pretty likely we look to trade down from the 6 spot.

[TimD]

No OL, DL, or rush OLB on old day one or new day one? As of right now I completely agree, at least for the first two rounds and without seeing any FA. If we make some moves there I think it gives us a little flexibility. I definitely like the idea of Albert though, and I'm starting to think it's pretty likely we look to trade down from the 6 spot.

If Gholston isn't available. If he's available why would we not take him? He's proven himself has a top 10 pick and he's exactly what we need.

[nvot9]

Yea, I'm curious too as to why you'd have us trading down...just wondering how you envision that all playing out in the end...

[derza222]

Not quite that I think we should but I think we will. I guess my thought is a lot of our larger needs can be filled in the mid first-second range. Lots of good right tackles, ends, possibly nose tackles, corners, and wideouts are going to be available in that range and I think if we can we'll try and stockpile those picks to fill needs there and then maybe try a Bruce Davis, Shawn Crable type at OLB and see how that works. Not saying we should or shouldn't but I have a funny feeling we will.

[Crickett]

Not quite that I think we should but I think we will. I guess my thought is a lot of our larger needs can be filled in the mid first-second range. Lots of good right tackles, ends, possibly nose tackles, corners, and wideouts are going to be available in that range and I think if we can we'll try and stockpile those picks to fill needs there and then maybe try a Bruce Davis, Shawn Crable type at OLB and see how that works. Not saying we should or shouldn't but I have a funny feeling we will.

Keep in mind that this is true for all teams in all years. Seriously, how many fans don't want their team to accumulate draft pick and a jazillion late first early second rounders?

[thetedginnshow]

If Gholston isn't available. If he's available why would we not take him? He's proven himself has a top 10 pick and he's exactly what we need.

Well really, he hasn't proven that just yet. If he puts on a show at the combine, then he'd have made a legitimate claim.

[619]

Well really, he hasn't proven that just yet. If he puts on a show at the combine, then he'd have made a legitimate claim.

With the incredible seasons hes had over the last couple of years hes already more than proven hes worthy of a top 10 selection. I think its pretty safe to say hes gonna rip it in the combine as well.

[derza222]

Keep in mind that this is true for all teams in all years. Seriously, how many fans don't want their team to accumulate draft pick and a jazillion late first early second rounders?

Very true. Again just a feeling I have, though it seems I have it every year. Picks are going to be so valuable for us this year depending on what we do in FA.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Very true. Again just a feeling I have, though it seems I have it every year. Picks are going to be so valuable for us this year depending on what we do in FA.

As always, possibly moreso this year, free agency is going to play a huge role in where we go in this years draft. I 100% want to see Stacy Andrews on this team next year, as im sure many teams do as well. I believe we have the upper hand on every team but cinci in that we brought him in prior to this season and gave him the red carpet treatment, which can allow us to act quickly as soon as free agency starts. He is a monster at 6'6 347 and shows his power and dominance as a RT, however he also posesses great athleticism and enough quickness to be able to pull as an OG. By being able to play both LG and RT he allows us to go into the draft and go for either RT or LG, which prevents us from reaching for a player.

Also, by addressing Oline in free agency, we are able to go BPA in the draft; if that happens to be oline than so be it. Two guys that really impressed me this past week at the senior bowl on the defensive side of the ball were Dre Moore and Red Bryant. Dre Moore for his incredible potential to make big plays will still being able to collapse the pocket(absolutel owned people in one on ones) although he has always been inconsistent. Red Bryant for his ability to just stand firm and occupy blockers. I also wouldn't mind seeing either of them take some snaps at NT; even though they both are tall they have the ability to play with good leverage.

I guess the big thing im stressing is that by getting Andrews in as a free agent or someone on the oline, it allows us to take the BPA and not miss out on a great talent. We have many moves for the draft and i'm quite excited.

[thetedginnshow]

With the incredible seasons hes had over the last couple of years hes already more than proven hes worthy of a top 10 selection. I think its pretty safe to say hes gonna rip it in the combine as well.

Well neither of his last two seasons was he the exact focal point of the defense, and while his stats were impressive, he was never terribly dominating for too long. And "safe to say" is different from actually doing. While I have no doubt that he will be impressive, he hasn't done it yet. There's probably too much time being spent on this for irrelevant it is, though.

I think it's almost a given though that we'll either have to address the OL or DL (and maybe even playmakers at skill positions) via FA and trades to have a completely successful off-season.

[thetedginnshow]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/25/could-lance-briggs-roy-williams-be-heading-to-san-francisco/

So basically, since our 2nd is worth more than everyone else's save four teams and no one wants to go to those teams, we should trade our 2nd for Roy and Rogers. This would be huge if we could get something done, and they should be trying to do everything in their power to acquire one, if not both, of these guys.

[Crickett]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/25/could-lance-briggs-roy-williams-be-heading-to-san-francisco/

So basically, since our 2nd is worth more than everyone else's save four teams and no one wants to go to those teams, we should trade our 2nd for Roy and Rogers. This would be huge if we could get something done, and they should be trying to do everything in their power to acquire one, if not both, of these guys.

This was about I was about to write.

This seems a bit too much of a pipe dream. Looking at the end of the first round, I don't see many teams that wouldn't trade a first rounder for Rogers and Roy Williams.

Then I read the link and I can only think one thing about Matt Millen

"WHATS A GUY GOTTA DO TO GET FIRED AROUND HERE?!?!?!?"

I'd actually much rather see the Jets trade their first to Detroit (especially if Gholston is gone) for Roy, KJ and Shaun Rogers. But I'm actually wondering if maybe the Jets could hustle a little more out of Millen. Like their second rounder.

[derza222]

Looking at the pick value chart, Detroit picking 15 has a first rounder worth 1050, we have a first worth 1600 and our second will be worth around 530. So if our second would get it done Roy and Rodgers or at least just Roy, our first is 1070 more, which is almost exactly the same as their third. So if we do our first for their first, Rodgers, and Roy or if they'd rather we throw in a fourth or fifth I'd almost rather do that than with KJ in. Value should work fairly well, we could probably fleece Millen and we get a mid first rounder that we could go OL or DL, possibly OLB if somebody slips. We take care of two big needs and just slide down a couple of picks, I'd definitely love to do that deal or some variation if we could pull it off. Who would they want to get at 5 though to make it work? Edge rusher or CB maybe?

EDIT: Is it just me or do you guys think SF would do that deal for Indy's first in a heartbeat? We could have to compete with them but that deal would be perfect for the Niners...

[thetedginnshow]

If I was a player, looking at it from the standpoint that neither team is all too good, I'd much rather play in the New York spotlight. Plus, I think we can offer more money-wise as well. I don't know. That'd just be my take on it. There is, of course, the strong possibility they may want to already go to a contender, and some team in the late first (or even mid-late second depending on what Millen really wants for these guys) that will offer up the picks. I'm sure most are solely considering Roy though, and that could work in our favor. If we're willing to take on whatever Rogers' contract is as well, they might just take our offer over everyone else's.

And honestly, unless we were to do even more trades for players or FA pick-up's, I'd actually rather trade down in the first than lose the second.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Well i figure i would start if off; apparantly it's rumored that the jets are going to make a strong run at asante again this year. Although i was unable to read the article of Rich Cimini, I do beleive this was more him trying to get more people to read his blog/articles. I wouldn't be surprised to see us make a run at asante, but i do feel that our money would be better spent on the oline. If we were able to get a stacy andrews and possibly a floyd womack or jake scott etc. on the cheap than i can see us making a play for him. I just really can't justify spending the money on a CB when our team has numerous other pressing needs. I'm sure this won't be the last of the rumors to come out surrounding the jets prior to the offseason and i for one am happy rumors are starting to come out again! heres to the offseason boys.

[thetedginnshow]

With a player like that, I don't think I'd care all too much. We have a decent enough space of cap room as is, and I'm sure something will be done with Robertson so that that'll at least be fine for future years. Plain and simple, we need playmakers, and I'd love for us to bring them in at virtually any position. Granted, if we were given the choice between him and significant OL/DL help, then I'd obviously take the latter, but I don't really see a ton of players out there on the open market at his caliber. I'd much rather the Roy/Rogers thing go down, but I'd love to see this. I guess I won't get my hopes up too much, though.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I'm not sure if anyone saw chad johnson just on espn, but they asked him the following questions straight up;

1) where do you stand??
- He answered basically on my own two feet (laugh laugh) But i am just doing what i'm supposed to do and relax and take it easy before the preseason

2)Where do you want to play?
- I want to play on a team that can win and get to the playoffs. I'm letting my agent take care of that etc.

3)Do you beleive the bengals could be a team that gets to the playoffs.
- He basically stuttered and just said i want to win..no comment next question.


Basically it just says he'll play anywhere he thinks he can win and get to the playoffs and doesnt seem to care if it's with the bengals, however he isn't the GM so it doesn't entirely matter. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him; i mention this just becuase there were rumors of chad for vilma.

[Crickett]

Basically it just says he'll play anywhere he thinks he can win and get to the playoffs and doesnt seem to care if it's with the bengals, however he isn't the GM so it doesn't entirely matter. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him; i mention this just becuase there were rumors of chad for vilma.

Based on that interview, if he wants out of Cincinnati, he's going to want to go to a team that had a winning record and is likely to do so again. Now, maybe that could be depending on what they do in free agency, but as of right now, its not.

[gio]

Based on that interview, if he wants out of Cincinnati, he's going to want to go to a team that had a winning record and is likely to do so again. Now, maybe that could be depending on what they do in free agency, but as of right now, its not.

im kinda stuck in the middle as far as chad johnson goes. he is a great player, but he is all for himself. what if we have another disaster of a season again next year? he will quit by week 8 like he did in 07. also he has had a tremendous arm throwing him the ball the last 4 seasons, and even if clemens has all the potential in the world, he is no carson palmer. honestly, i think roy williams is just as good with a lot less mouth.

[thetedginnshow]

Either one will be hard to get, and we'd be lucky to get either. And Chad is hardly all for himself, though people seem to get this impression somehow.

Of course, he reportedly said he wanted to go to Miami, so I'm sure it'll be more about the ties that he may have with people on a team than anything else. Granted, he doesn't really have the leverage in whatever deal, but still.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I wasn't really alluding to him coming here, but just thought it was a fairly interesting interview he had. I would love to have him, but i would need to see significant improvement in our oline in order to justify him coming here.

I was also trying to see if anyone knows/could find Drobs arm length. I was to justify the move to defensive end and was having a tough time without knowing his arm length; it's not the end all characteristic of a 34 DE, but it certainly helps to keep the OTs off of you.

[derza222]

Per rotoworld Sutton is back next year. :(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01312008/sports/giants/sutton_likely_to_remain_with_jets_343400.htm

Hopefully it's wrong, just says it's likely.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I had a feeling this was going to be the case once al davis decided to let his senility get the best of him. It's really not that big of a deal, he'll basically serve has a defensive assistant and mangini will go back to calling the plays the way he did towards the end of the year. We were a decent defense towards the end of the year and i think that's where we will be next year. I'm assuming upgrades will be made as well, which will obviously be beneficial.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

im kinda stuck in the middle as far as chad johnson goes. he is a great player, but he is all for himself. what if we have another disaster of a season again next year? he will quit by week 8 like he did in 07. also he has had a tremendous arm throwing him the ball the last 4 seasons, and even if clemens has all the potential in the world,but he is no carson palmer. honestly, i think roy williams is just as good with a lot less mouth.

eh, Roy has just as big a mouth as Chad, but less endzone celebration and media attention. But Chad's mouth isn't tha tmuch bigger. Either way, i'd give up a #2 for either of them.

[hcbrad08]

I just heard USC had to buy heavier dumbbells bc Sedrick Ellis was so strong and was dominating 100 lbers.

um yes thank you I'd take him or Gholston

I did the size ratio just to see how he matches up vs other NT weight over height

Sedrick Ellis: 308 72.5 inches 4.248 lbs per inch

Dewayne Robertson: 307 lbs 73.5 inches 4.176 lbs per inch
Vince Wilfork: 325 lbs 74.5 inches 4.362 lbs per inch
Jamal Williams: 340 lbs 75 inches 4.533 lbs per inch
Kelly Gregg: 305 lbs 72 inches 4.236 lbs per inch
Shaun Rogers: 335 lbs 76 inches 4.408 lbs per inch

Though a crude estimate, this model does show Ellis as being bigger than Robertson and Gregg and given information about his strength and ability to handle the double team I think he's apt for the position. Remember he's 22 and still has room to grow a little (in terms of putting on GOOD weight..its easier before 25) I think if he added 7 good lbs and got up to 6 feet and 3/4 inches at 315 he could be a force for us effective NTs are typicallly 1st rounders you do have Gregg who was a 6th rounder bc he weighed 20 lbs less when he was drafted. (not to mention he might be effective bc he has ngata playing de and a huge DL helping but hes been said to be effective) I guess my point is are we gonna take aythba rubin in the 4th rd maybe seeing 1 of his games while he played at IOWA STATE or Sedrick Ellis from USC who has been and is considered to be one of if not the best player in the draft (bc hes been on natl tv a lot and never failed to deliver), he's ahrd working and would fill one of our biggest needs.

Im leaning towards him over gholston
YOU BUILD INSIDE OUT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND...look at how the patriots built their team regardless of coaching. Seymore, Wilfork and Warren were all 1st rders. THE D line is so important to the 34 if mangini is committed to it and we are willing to ship out dewayne and his 12million dollar contract then I think this should and will be our pick esp considering pouha progress.

Id like to have options to trade out or take Ellis or Gholston...We'll see but I think Ellis could be an effective 34 NT.

[AlexDown]

Well, would you want to see the Jets make a move for Rodgers and then draft Gholston?

Is there actually any interest by the Jets front office in Rodgers, I have not really heard anything.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Well, would you want to see the Jets make a move for Rodgers and then draft Gholston?

Is there actually any interest by the Jets front office in Rodgers, I have not really heard anything.

I havn't heard of any news about us being interested in Rogers, but what i did read in that article was that the jets seemed to be unbeleivably excited at Ellis' weighin.

Look at this video of Ellis and just check out 1:15 he absolutely frustrates Roy Sheuning, its pretty funny. Granted this doesn't do much for his stock as a 34 NT, but it's just a cool video to show how quick he is for his size.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/2008-senior-bowl-sedrick-ellis/3144973026

I've also been thinking the selection over in my head for a bit and i truly beleive that he might be the best pick for us. THe thing that seperates him from Drob in my mind is that he is just so much stronger. Mangini always talked about having a NT that revolutionized the position; what i got out of this is that the 34 mangini ideally wants to run is different than some of the others. It's different compared to parcells?? or whichever just has the NT eat up space and blockers and doesn't do much penetration, where as i think mangini seems to want to have his Dlineman be able to be stout at the POA but also have the ability to get into the backfield and cause chaos. Of course it takes someone who is extremely quick, with great size and unbelievable strength; you may have to wait a long time for that and Ellis could be our guy.

Edit: As for his strength this is something i just came across; Extremely strong – 510 lbs max on the bench (recently hit 42 reps at 225lbs.)

[Bluedevil$]

Speaking of the Asante, i'd welcome him signing with us. With a little better pass rush (Gholston anybody?), think of the coverage sacks we'd get with a Samuel/Revis/Rhodes d-backfield.

[thetedginnshow]

Not that I think Ellis will be around at our pick, but I don't think it'd utilize his talents at all to be in the 3-4, and his repertoire seems much more suited for that of a pass-rushing monster, rather than some space-eater in the middle.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Not that I think Ellis will be around at our pick, but I don't think it'd utilize his talents at all to be in the 3-4, and his repertoire seems much more suited for that of a pass-rushing monster, rather than some space-eater in the middle.

But that's the thing, it doesn't matter if he'd be better in a 43 if he's still great in a 34. He would be our pick and ours to do what we want with him and if he can be a great NT than i don't see the harm in picking him. I want to know exact reasons that he can't play a 34 NT not just that he doesn't weigh 15 pounds more. He is as strong or stronger than Hampton, Wilfork, Williams etc. and he is shorter than Wilfork but his arms are half an inch longer, which means it's easier for him to get his pads lower and get better leverage and still not get engulfed by the bigger interior lineman because of 'gator arms. If there is something technically i'm missing than I would gladly rethink my position on him.

[throwback54milkman]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=research/080128

this article is weird

[BroadwayJoe10]

GREATEST FEELING IN THE WORLD!! this city will actually be liveable tommorrow morning!!!!!

[tishdog]

Its good that the Pats didnt win but the Giants fans around me are annoying as hell. They will just rip on the Jets all day for no reason now.

[throwback54milkman]

GREATEST FEELING IN THE WORLD!! this city will actually be liveable tommorrow morning!!!!!

this makes me sick

[hugegmenfan]

Jets- Thank you for exposing the Patriots for what they really were early in the season. If you guys never did, who knows if we would have beaten them tonight cuz they probably would have cheated

[thetedginnshow]

Not that I really like the Patriots, but it's too bad that the Giants had to win. On average, I know more d-bag Giants fans than Pats, but oh well. It was a lose-lose in that regard, so at least we were given a good game.

[AlexDown]

What some of you have to realize is that the only reason you hold any animosity towards the Giants is because of a few loud mouth fans they have, which is the same as any other team.

I am not expecting you to be jumping up and down, but this was a great win against an 18-0 team.

I think our organization has a bright future, and we ourselves have a lot to look forward to.

[gio]

hey i am just glad that a ny team finally won something against a boston based team..the look on belicheat's face was priceless..see? bad karma follows you when you cheat!! good job g-men and i'd rather deal with a few loudmouth giants fans than to see the pompous, arrogant pats along with their fans etched in history as the only 19-0 team ever. now the jets 4-12 season doesnt feel so horrible any more because the pats get nothing either..

[Crickett]

Its good that the Pats didnt win but the Giants fans around me are annoying as hell. They will just rip on the Jets all day for no reason now.

Its just the opposite here. My family is full of Jets fans, Giants fans and now, even a few Dolphins fans and you know what? We all get along just fine, especially after that superbowl. Nobody rags on anyone.

I wore a Jets shirt all day and nobody said boo.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

[BroadwayJoe10]

this makes me sick

Try living here in boston through two pats superbowls and two red sox world series and then tell me that's sickening. I am a die hard jets fan, but if i have to choose between the giants winning and the pats losing, it's not even a contest.

I have 0 anamosity towards the giants; they don't play in our division, they havn't beaten us in a superbowl and i could care less strahan beat kleckos sack record. Ya there are a lot of annoying giants fans, but there are a ton of annoying jets fans as well. I love the fact that the patriots lost and it made going to class absolutely enjoyable today and I know hcbrad will agree with me that if we had to deal with all the annoying nonfans talking about the pats and sox for an entire year it would be the worst thing ever. Obviously i would rather the jets win the superbowl, but the second best thing to me is the pats losing.

[gio]

the mo lewis curse is broken!!! as im sure others have read, no ny team since the "hit" has won any championships in any sport, while boston won 3 super bowls and 2 world series. hopefully the pats bad luck will continue and the jets can get an upper hand on the division..hey anything can happen, the proof was yesterday's game!

[thetedginnshow]

The only good that came out of this is that maybe their LBs will retire, Moss will leave, Samuel will leave, and maybe someone else. Maybe Brady will get into a fight with Belichick and go to his one true love, Eric Mangini.

[gio]

The only good that came out of this is that maybe their LBs will retire, Moss will leave, Samuel will leave, and maybe someone else. Maybe Brady will get into a fight with Belichick and go to his one true love, Eric Mangini.

well, in all honesty that is a good reality that both LBs will retire, a possibility that moss will be gone, and samuel is gone. since the pats didn't win, i think samuel how has a better chance coming over to the jets than if they did win, and he would have bigger demands- not that he is gonna come cheap anyway.

[BroadwayJoe10]

If i were a betting man, I would say that moss is staying 100%, Asante is gone, to where i have no idea but he'll be gone, randall gaay will be gone, stalworth will be gone, kelly washington my stay in stalworths place but i dunno and i think seau and bruschi stay but get limited playing time when the pats get a new lb.

[katnip]

I'd love to see us get Terrell Suggs or Karlos Dansby for a OLB spot if the price don't go too high.

[TimD]

I'd love to see us get Terrell Suggs or Karlos Dansby for a OLB spot if the price don't go too high.

If we can get one of those two guys then our entire draft strategy changes which would be great because we can focus on DL, OL, CB, and WR

[Crickett]

If we can get one of those two guys then our entire draft strategy changes which would be great because we can focus on DL, OL, CB, and WR

Although at the same time, I'd like to see the Jets focus on the OL so they can draft Gholston in the first round. Because how good of a fit are any of the first round defensive linemen (Dorsey, Long, S. Ellis) for the Jets?

[TimD]

Well let's say we get Dansby in FA. Then we could possibly trade down to acquire a late 1st as well as other draft picks (probably a 2nd). Then with our first 3 pick we could focus on OL and DL.

[nvot9]

Well let's say we get Dansby in FA. Then we could possibly trade down to acquire a late 1st as well as other draft picks (probably a 2nd). Then with our first 3 pick we could focus on OL and DL.

Both will likely get franchised...

[derza222]

I really think it makes the most sense to focus on OL in FA because we need guys that can step in now to protect Clemens. That said, if we're going to go big money in FA I'd rather go for a LB than say, Asante Samuel. Going OLB gives us, as stated, the option to trade down. I think if we could go OL and OLB in FA it gives us a lot of flexibility to move down and add talent at multiple positions: DL, CB, WR, and possibly positions like RB, TE, and S depending on who is available. And really, we could have bigger problems than being forced to make a pick at 6 and take a guy like Gholston with two solid OLB's already though I think if we did draft an OLB somebody would be on the board (Dorsey, DMC) that a team would want to trade up for.

[thetedginnshow]

I think we should just take whatever big-name talent we can get. I don't think we're such an attractive franchise that we can just pick and choose. Ideally, there's certain things they should focus on, but we have more positions than just those that everyone brings up that could use a significant upgrade.

As for Suggs, there's almost no way he goes, but I did hear that if he did, he wanted to play in Arizona. I guess a Dansby/Suggs trade would work out nicely, but I'd love it if we could get Karlos.

I don't know if I necessarily want to overpay for older OL in FA though. In the draft, it'd just be a matter of them finding the right guys to fit. The two positions we currently need aren't franchise-breaking ones, so there's a good possibility of finding steals later on in the draft so long as we draft smart. For me, ideally, I'd want to be bringing in playmakers through FA, whether it's a RB, WR, TE, OLB, DB, or D-Lineman.

[TimD]

I think whether we address OL will make or break our season next year. Young QBs need time and have to have confidence that they will not get crushed every time they drop back. Clemens will develop nicely if he's given time and a chance this season.

[thetedginnshow]

If we could get Gross (he's still a UFA, right?), that would be absolutely ideal. If not, Max Starks would be a fantastic consolation. After that, I'm not too interested in anybody. I don't really think there's a LG worth it out there for the price, age, and ability.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I am not a huge fan of Max starks, he is great in run blocking, but his pass protection needs plenty of work. He would definately be an upgrade over clement and could be someone callahan could mold. I think right now he would be my third RT choice, behind Stacy Andrews and Jordan Gross. I think for LG, my ideal situation would be sign Floyd Womack for couple year dear for decent money; he has a problem of getting hurt and is a tad old at 31 (i beleive) so he could be had for less and then also draft an OG to groom behind him. Maybe a converted neil cousins or someone in the middle rounds.

[thetedginnshow]

Womack's only 29, but he's not very good. Just trust me there. We'd be much better off drafting some random guy the second day of the draft. As for Andrews, I didn't know he was a free agent. I'd only want him as a LG, though, because he really wasn't that great at RT. He'd be a great pick-up though and probably the only guy I'd be interested in at OG.

With Starks though I think he'd develop fine within our system. I just don't think enough emphasis was put on pass protection over there. And really, we're not heavy on the pass anyway. Ideally, we'd get Andrews and Gross, but that seems to be asking a bit too much.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Womack's only 29, but he's not very good. Just trust me there. We'd be much better off drafting some random guy the second day of the draft. As for Andrews, I didn't know he was a free agent. eI'd only want him as a LG, though, because he really wasn't that great at RT. He'd be a great pick-up though and probably the only guy I'd be interested in at OG.

With Starks though I think he'd develop fine within our system. I just don't think enough emphasis was put on pass protection over there. And really, we're not heavy on the pass anyway. Ideally, we'd get Andrews and Gross, but that seems to be asking a bit too much.

Yaa, mangini brought andrews in prior to this season but didn't sign him becuase it would have cost us a 2nd rounder, which landed us david harris. Maybe you didn't see all of Andrews' games at RT, becuase he is a lot better at passpro than max starks, not to mention he is still fairly raw. I would love to have Andrews and Starks at LG and RT, respectively, but both are going to get very large contracts. Besides the bengals i see us as the favorites to land andrews, because of him coming in earlier last year.

However, I am worried that the he may just stay with the bengals. They have a better QB, WR etc. and are under the cap more than we are. Now, i don't know if they have anyone to sign to contract that will take up the space, but it seems they have the means to sign him long term as wll.

[thetedginnshow]

Yaa, mangini brought andrews in prior to this season but didn't sign him becuase it would have cost us a 2nd rounder, which landed us david harris. Maybe you didn't see all of Andrews' games at RT, becuase he is a lot better at passpro than max starks, not to mention he is still fairly raw. I would love to have Andrews and Starks at LG and RT, respectively, but both are going to get very large contracts. Besides the bengals i see us as the favorites to land andrews, because of him coming in earlier last year.

However, I am worried that the he may just stay with the bengals. They have a better QB, WR etc. and are under the cap more than we are. Now, i don't know if they have anyone to sign to contract that will take up the space, but it seems they have the means to sign him long term as wll.

Oh, I might've mislead you there. I don't think Starks is by any means better than Andrews in terms of pass-protection or maybe even as a RT in general, but considering our need at both LG and RT, I'd rather put Andrews at his more natural position with Starks as a fine consolation.

And while continuity with the system, the QB, and the rest of the OL should be important to him (if Chad leaves though, I'm not necessarily sure they'd be better at WR, and I don't think WRs really factor into the decision with OL anyway), I think there's some things going for us. One would be him staying a Bengal. Their troubles have been widely publicized and I'm not so sure many players would want to stay there given the opportunity to leave. Another is money. While you say they're more under the cap than us, they also spend less. Cincinnati isn't a big market and they're penny-pinchers. Realistically, if we were that interested, there's almost no way they'd spend more on Andrews than us. They're already not that happy about all the money they've had to spend on Carson, the receivers, and Levi.

So if we were in fact the leading candidate of the other 31 teams, I'd have to stay there's a very strong chance he'd choose us.

[TimD]

2008 FA

QB Marques Tuiasosopo UFA
FB Stacy Tutt RFA
TE Sean P. Ryan UFA
C Wade Smith UFA
LB Victor Hobson UFA
CB Hank Poteat UFA
FS Erik Coleman UFA

Got his list from

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=By+Team&y=2008

I think Ryan, Hobson, and Coleman are definitely gone.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I'll agree with that, although i would personally like to see hobson slide on into ILB next to harris, but that wish hasn't come true for a couple years now. I think tui will stay, he knows the offense and is a decent 3rd stringer. I also have a feeling wade smith will stay due to his ability to play everywhere on the line, especially center. I also see poteat hanging hangin around. Man i can't wait till free agency starts.

[TimD]

I like Hobson (Michigan guy) and I think he has real potential. But even though OLB is one of our biggest needs, ILB is basically stacked. We have 4 guys that are ILBs and we're making 1 of them play outside. Vilma, Harris, Barton (who did real well inside this year), and Hobson (who we force to play outside). If Vilma leaves, we should keep Hobson because it gives us depth and versatility in the LB position.

[TimD]

In case you guys didn't see this. I posted this in another thread. Your thoughts, please.

New York Jets

Head Coach Weeb Ewbank

All-Time Team:
QB - Joe Namath ('65-'76) HOF
RB - Curtis Martin ('98-'06)
FB - Richie Anderson ('93-'02)
WR - Keyshawn Johnson ('96-'99)
WR - Al Toon ('85-'92)
WR - Wayne Cherbet ('95-'05)
OL - Joe Fields ('75-'87)
OL - Winston Hill ('63-'76)
OL - Kevin Mawae ('98-'05)
OL - Dan Alexander ('77-'89)
OL - Marvin Powell ('77-'85)

DL - Joe Klecko ('77-'87)
DL - Gerry Philbin ('64-'72)
DL - Mark Gastineau ('79-'88)
DL - Marty Lyons ('79-'89)
LB - Mo Lewis ('91-'03)
LB - Larry Grantham ('60-'72)
LB - Greg Buttle ('76-'84)
DB - Marcus Coleman ('96-'01)
DB - Aaron Glenn ('94-'01)
DB - Darrol Ray ('80-'84)
DB - James Hasty ('88-'94)

K - Pat Leahy ('74-'91)

Honorable Mention:
QB - Vinny Testaverde ('98-'03, '05)
RB - John Riggins ('71-'75) HOF
WR - Don Maynard ('60-'72)
OL - Randy Rasmussen ('67-'81)
OL - Paul Crane ('66-'72)
DL - Abdul Salaam ('76-'83)
DL - John Abraham ('00-'05)
DB - Ronnie Lott ('93-'94) HOF

Current Players:
(who have a chance at this list)
WR - Laveranues Coles ('00-'02, '05-?)
WR - Jerricho Cotchery ('04-?)
OL - Nick Mangold ('06-?)
DL - Shaun Ellis ('00-?)
LB - David Harris ('07-?)
LB - Jon Vilma ('05-?)
DB - Kerry Rhodes ('05-?)
DB - Darrelle Revis ('07-?)

[gio]

I like Hobson (Michigan guy) and I think he has real potential. But even though OLB is one of our biggest needs, ILB is basically stacked. We have 4 guys that are ILBs and we're making 1 of them play outside. Vilma, Harris, Barton (who did real well inside this year), and Hobson (who we force to play outside). If Vilma leaves, we should keep Hobson because it gives us depth and versatility in the LB position.

i agree with you on hobson..sign him now and let him play along side harris on the inside..he won't demand a ton of money because he has had his ups and downs i think as a jet, but this will give him a chance to prove that he can control the ILB position. the jets i think can still get pretty good value for vilma so they are going to shop him around..however, since we are at #6 and the 3 or 4 desired picks will most likely be gone, there isn't much to move up for if youre another team thinking of making a deal with vilma involved. jets can easily get a 2nd rounder for him.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Well, apparantly the report outta the probowl is Chad Johnson is causing some problems out their in hawaii. Half of me is wondering if he is trying to be the biggest pain in the a*s in order to force the bengals hand to trade him. He used to be one of my favorite players not on the jets and he's quickly falling down the list.



Chad Johnson shoved a Bengals media relations employee following Pro Bowl practice Thursday, according to FOXSports.com's Alex Marvez.
T.O. II? Marvez, with Bengals employee Michael Lipman beside him, asked Johnson if he felt better after venting at the Super Bowl last week. Johnson walked away, and when Lipman tried to ask again, Chad reportedly shoved Lipman and "stared him down." Johnson proceeded to admit on the NFL Network that he's "gotten out of line every now and then" behind the scenes, adding "what great one doesn't? Find me a great one that doesn't do the same things I've done and I'll stop playing. Period."

[Crickett]

Chad Johnson shoved a Bengals media relations employee following Pro Bowl practice Thursday, according to FOXSports.com's Alex Marvez.
T.O. II? Marvez, with Bengals employee Michael Lipman beside him, asked Johnson if he felt better after venting at the Super Bowl last week. Johnson walked away, and when Lipman tried to ask again, Chad reportedly shoved Lipman and "stared him down." Johnson proceeded to admit on the NFL Network that he's "gotten out of line every now and then" behind the scenes, adding "what great one doesn't? Find me a great one that doesn't do the same things I've done and I'll stop playing. Period."


DON'T DO IT CHAD!!!!!! THATS WHY BARRY RETIRED!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Not really.

[BroadwayJoe10]

DON'T DO IT CHAD!!!!!! THATS WHY BARRY RETIRED!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Not really.

I am leaning towards him being a pain just to get traded, but i don't see that working to his advantage. I find it hard to beleive that any team in the NFL, let alone the AFC would actively try to improve the pats; i only mention pats, because that's what he's mentioned most. Ahh well, I can't wait for the dammn combine to roll along and then free agency.


I don't think there's a player i've grown more attached to getting in the draft or FA than Stacey Andrews. If we a team that isn't the bengals ends up gettinng him I know i am going to be miserable for atleast a couple of days.

[Crickett]

I don't think there's a player i've grown more attached to getting in the draft or FA than Stacey Andrews. If we a team that isn't the bengals ends up gettinng him I know i am going to be miserable for atleast a couple of days.

Eh, I'd still prefer Alan Faneca and drafting a right tackle. Yeah, Stacey Andrews is younger, but assuming the Jets do draft a right tackle, they will have plenty of youth all along the offensive line. Faneca can provide veteran leadership to the Jets OL and IMO, I think to a slightly lesser extent, Faneca would provide to the Jets offensive line what Steve Hutchinson does for Minnesota.

[thetedginnshow]

Eh, I'd still prefer Alan Faneca and drafting a right tackle. Yeah, Stacey Andrews is younger, but assuming the Jets do draft a right tackle, they will have plenty of youth all along the offensive line. Faneca can provide veteran leadership to the Jets OL and IMO, I think to a slightly lesser extent, Faneca would provide to the Jets offensive line what Steve Hutchinson does for Minnesota.

Granted, Hutch was the best Guard in the league and in perfect condition. Faneca's a little older, not as talented, will cost a pretty penny, and will be much harder to get. To me, that seems like a dead end. It's not as if we're a team with its window closing; we're just the opposite, in fact. If we'd want some veteran leadership, we could do it by getting someone that would cost a considerably lesser amount. And still, realistically, it seems as though we'd probably have a better chance with Andrews. The only real reason it'd seem for Faneca to come to the Jets would be for a boatload of money, and that certainly wouldn't make sense from our side, at least to me anyway.

[Crickett]

Granted, Hutch was the best Guard in the league and in perfect condition. Faneca's a little older, not as talented, will cost a pretty penny, and will be much harder to get. To me, that seems like a dead end. It's not as if we're a team with its window closing; we're just the opposite, in fact. If we'd want some veteran leadership, we could do it by getting someone that would cost a considerably lesser amount.

Yes, but not someone even close to being as good as Faneca, who while not as good as Hutch who is the A #1 LG in the NFL, he is still one of the 3-5 best LG's in the NFL IMO.

And still, realistically, it seems as though we'd probably have a better chance with Andrews.

Realism and preference seldom coincide. :cool:

The only real reason it'd seem for Faneca to come to the Jets would be for a boatload of money, and that certainly wouldn't make sense from our side, at least to me anyway.

And for once, I think it would be worth the boatload of money to get him. I think he'd provide that much of a boost to the offense as a whole. The aid he'd provide to the run game would be immeasurable, as a pass blocker, well, anyone's better than Clarke it seems.

I'm not saying Stacey Andrews would be a horrible signing or that I would even be opposed to it. But my preference is for the Jets to go and get Faneca, even if it means an obscene contract like some of the guards got last offseason.

[thetedginnshow]

I don't think there's very many stand-out LGs in the league, so he's probably in the top five. Well, maybe not. I'd say Hutch, Waters, Dockery, Mankins, Dielman, Steinbach, and potentially, Allen, Manuwai, and Lilja are all better than him now.

But in any case, I just don't see the point in bringing the older, on-the-decline player in for more money if you already have a connection with a younger, above-average player you could get for less. Plus, he'd be good for what, three seasons? Four if he's lucky, and probably less. D'Brick and Mangold are going to be around for quite a while, and if we could develop some chemistry at the very least on that side of the line for years to come, they could become a franchise left side and, as a result, a franchise line, for many years, giving us quite the opportunity to get into the playoffs for several years, especially for the chance of an easier emergence into the top spot in the AFC East most probably coming in about 3-4 years. I don't know. I'd be more inclined for us to pay the hefty amount if in fact Faneca was so much greater than say, Andrews, but since I don't see it that way, I can't figure that it'd be so great of an idea. And plus, this'd fail to mention how easy it is to find a franchise Guard if you find the right guy for your system (like Jahri Evans for the Saints) later on in a draft, which would also come significantly cheaper.

[thetedginnshow]

Oh and how come there's been no talk of Lance Briggs? Does no one think he could fit in the 3-4 on the inside? I personally think he could, and I think he'd be a terrific acquisition. He's only 27 and a playmaker. Obviously the demand for him would be high, and he'd probably favor a place like Arizona or something, but I think if we gave him the right amount of money, he'd come. What does everyone think?

[TimD]

Like I said before, ILB is not a concern at all for the Jets. We have 4 guys on the roster that have the potential to be good to great starters. Yes 2 of them have a chance of leaving, but we aren't going to go out and pay a big name FA to fill a need that is not a concern. I wouldn't be surprised to see us draft someone Day 2 at ILB for depth.

[thetedginnshow]

Yeah, if we did keep Vilma or Hobson, I wouldn't see the need (I'm not a huge fan of Barton), but just in the scenario they did happen to leave. I just wouldn't be opposed if they did get him, but I'd much rather them spend their time on some of the players that have already been discussed.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Barton actually had a pretty solid year; i personally would rather see hobson in their as i think he's just as physical but a bit more athletic. I really think vilma needs to go, but i'm not gonna get into that one again, i'll just wait and see what happens to him.

I fully agree with faneca not being a top 5 LG and not wanting to pay him as one as well.

It is also my beleive that Brick and Mangold don't need a vet between them, but a good LG. They are going to be entering their 3rd year in the NFL and they don't need someone to hold their hand/help with the counts; yes it would definately benefit them, but i think what they need more than anything is a good LG. I firmly beleive that a branden albert or roy schuening could come in here and do twice as good of a job as clarke did last year. I think we don't need to go the route of overpaying for declining vets, but instead get young good talent.

[Crickett]

I don't think there's very many stand-out LGs in the league, so he's probably in the top five. Well, maybe not. I'd say Hutch, Waters, Dockery, Mankins, Dielman, Steinbach, and potentially, Allen, Manuwai, and Lilja are all better than him now.

But in any case, I just don't see the point in bringing the older, on-the-decline player in for more money if you already have a connection with a younger, above-average player you could get for less. Plus, he'd be good for what, three seasons? Four if he's lucky, and probably less. D'Brick and Mangold are going to be around for quite a while, and if we could develop some chemistry at the very least on that side of the line for years to come, they could become a franchise left side and, as a result, a franchise line, for many years, giving us quite the opportunity to get into the playoffs for several years, especially for the chance of an easier emergence into the top spot in the AFC East most probably coming in about 3-4 years. I don't know. I'd be more inclined for us to pay the hefty amount if in fact Faneca was so much greater than say, Andrews, but since I don't see it that way, I can't figure that it'd be so great of an idea. And plus, this'd fail to mention how easy it is to find a franchise Guard if you find the right guy for your system (like Jahri Evans for the Saints) later on in a draft, which would also come significantly cheaper.

Well, I guess I have a high opinion of Faneca, who IMO out of your list of LG's is better than most of them such as Allen, Lilja, Waters, Dielman and most of the others. In fact, out of those, the only ones I could really say are better are Hutch, Steinbach, Manuwai and possibly Mankins. I do see him as that much better than Andrews and as for trying to find a cheaper guard to fit the system, well, thats what the Jets have been trying to do. With Marko Cavka, with Dave Yovanovits, with Jacob Bender and with Adrian Clarke. I'd say its not working all that well. I'd rather have the great guard and address the position again in 3-4 years then getting a pretty good guard and having to address the position 5-6.

If the Jets aren't going to wait 4 seasons to try to make a serious run, well, then I need to stop being a Jets fan. Not in a league where teams go from being at the bottom of the barrell to playoff or superbowl caliber teams from one year to the next.

The Jets are in bad shape right now, but there is no team in the league, not ONE who is four years away from contending for a playoff spot if they have a clue what they're doing*.





*Obviously excluding the Detroit Lions and Arizona Cardinals

[thetedginnshow]

I'll just respectfully disagree about Faneca. We'll see how it all shakes out in the end.

But to be clear about the playoff thing, I wasn't saying that we'd make our run for the playoffs in four or so years. I'm just of the belief that Brady will begin his decline around that time and the division will be there for the taking, and at that point we could reign over the East for quite a while after that. But that's just the East. As far as playoffs go, realistically, we could get there next year, but I think that as far as veterans go, if we're going to spend a good deal of money on someone, preferably, I'd like to use it on guys at impact positions, such as WR or, well, anything defense.

[gio]

Oh and how come there's been no talk of Lance Briggs? Does no one think he could fit in the 3-4 on the inside? I personally think he could, and I think he'd be a terrific acquisition. He's only 27 and a playmaker. Obviously the demand for him would be high, and he'd probably favor a place like Arizona or something, but I think if we gave him the right amount of money, he'd come. What does everyone think?

i have said it in the past and i'll agree that i would definitely pursue briggs and compete with the rest of the nfl to nab him. also, i have mentioned in the past that i believe that eric barton was the unsung mvp of the 04 season and even though he was plagued with injuries in 05, he is still a force in the middle. he may be a little slower in his step than hobson because he may have a couple of years on hobson, but he has that ex-raider fierceness and attitude that i loved even when he was in oakland. if he stays and vilma and or hobson goes, and we acquire briggs, we would be solid with LBs.

[Crickett]

i have said it in the past and i'll agree that i would definitely pursue briggs and compete with the rest of the nfl to nab him. also, i have mentioned in the past that i believe that eric barton was the unsung mvp of the 04 season and even though he was plagued with injuries in 05, he is still a force in the middle. he may be a little slower in his step than hobson because he may have a couple of years on hobson, but he has that ex-raider fierceness and attitude that i loved even when he was in oakland. if he stays and vilma and or hobson goes, and we acquire briggs, we would be solid with LBs.


Keep three things in mind though about Briggs.

1. He's played exclusively in the 4-3 since he entered the NFL. Who knows how he'd adjust to the 3-4.
2. He has had the benefit of playing next to Brian Urlacher. Now while David Harris is a stud, he's no Urlacher.
2. Lance Briggs is going to want boatloads of money. Much more than he is worth IMO.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I'm not a huge proponent of getting briggs, i don't feel that shelling out that type of money for an ILB in our system is truly worth it. We have our stud in Harris, we just need to find a nice compliment to him, which could be hobson. I think barton did an admirable job last season and if he stays than we'll just need to find a younger more athletic version.

As Scott pointed out our team needs, not that it was a surprise to anyone on our team because we've been mentioning the same 4 positions (OLB, NT, LG, RT) for months now, but ILB isn't exactly one of our needs. I just feel that acquring a LG, RT and OLB would have a tremendous affect on our team. The Oline would be set and we could finally evaluate Clemens a little better as well as give him a running game to work with.

I just found this on youtube actually..Gholston from the BCS game. The parts that really stuck out to me where ~30 secs where he just bullrushed the RT and than ~ 1:00 where he has a TE Chip him and the RT try to block him down the field while running a stretch play to the outside..gholston gets moved a yard or two and still makes the tackle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJAOY9iLsno

[TimD]

Yeah shelling out tons of money for an ILB is just dumb. We need to concentrate on DL, OLB, OG, and OT... Hopefully we get a FA in at least 2 of those positions and then draft the 2 other positions round 1 and 2... that'd be best case scenario. then we can address WR, CB, RB, etc. in the later rounds and with 2nd tier FAs

[gio]

as far as FA goes, i would rather throw my money toward briggs than samuels, especially if the jets are going to shop around vilma. the quality at NT and DE in the first round are not worth the pick, so if the OG position is the most important position to draft, which i agree is also necessary, than the jets really need to make a move up and grab jake long, end of discussion. faneca is going to want a boatload of cash and he is on the decline of his career. if the jets want an OG in the 2nd, then they should just trade down in the first..i still think dorsey is too small as a NT and that is pretty much the only option possibly worth picks 1-10. im tired of the jets dancing around their needs at the O-line and just take care of it already.

[TimD]

I'm not really impressed by Dorsey or Ellis. Yes they are good players, but they aren't fit for the 3-4. Robertson is a good player and look what happened to him when they put him in the 3-4. Systems have to fit the players not the other way around, and we should be drafting guys who fit our system and team needs.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I'm not really impressed by Dorsey or Ellis. Yes they are good players, but they aren't fit for the 3-4. Robertson is a good player and look what happened to him when they put him in the 3-4. Systems have to fit the players not the other way around, and we should be drafting guys who fit our system and team needs.

I think the important thing to do is trust that mangini knows what type of 34 he wants to run. I specifically remember mangini asking pouha to lose some weight earlier in the year because he wanted him quicker; mangini also talked quite a bit about how drob could be a revolutionary NT in the league. I still think he is waiting for his prototypical NT and possibly a DE or OLB to fit his system. I think it's tough to rule anyone out, becuase honestly i have no idea what he's thinking, he's very tight lipped. (which i like) As of right now, if I had to venture a guess, I would say their "mancrush" would be chris long.

[AlexDown]

I'm pretty confident, especially after last draft, that we will have a fine draft. I am interested to see if / what the Jets do in FA.

[Bluedevil$]

The o-line crop of FA's looks pretty deep this year. It's a good oppurtunity for us... let's just hope Tannenbaum isn't going to be stingy yet again.

[Crickett]

The o-line crop of FA's looks pretty deep this year. It's a good oppurtunity for us... let's just hope Tannenbaum isn't going to be stingy yet again.

Alan Faneca
Jordan Gross
Jacob Bell
Stacey Andrews

Any would provide a massive massive upgrade to the Jets offensive line. Alan Faneca is my preference, but I'd be happy if the Jets signed any of them.

Some other options

Ryan Lilja
Max Starts
Travelle Wharton
Justin Smiley
Maurice Williams
Stockar McDougle
Torrin Tucker
Sean Locklear
Rick DeMulling

although I have top question whether these guys are really the answer in the starting lineup. Although I'd like to see the Jets take a chance on Torrin Tucker for depth purposes.

[TimD]

Jacob Bell is a FA? I didn't know that. I would love it if we could get him. I always thought he was underrated.

[Crickett]

Jacob Bell is a FA? I didn't know that. I would love it if we could get him. I always thought he was underrated.

Its entirely possible that the Jets will be able to get him. I've heard that the Titans have a lot of cap room which is all fine and well, but they also have a ton of free agents.

[TimD]

I really hope the Jets spend some money this year. It seems like we are the big market team that is sort of cheap.

[Crickett]

I really hope the Jets spend some money this year. It seems like we are the big market team that is sort of cheap.

Its not even that the Jets are cheap, but they're spending the big money on the wrong guys. DeWayne Robertson, Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis (especially Robertson) are three of the highest paid players in the NFL why?

[AlexDown]

Its not even that the Jets are cheap, but they're spending the big money on the wrong guys. DeWayne Robertson, Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis (especially Robertson) are three of the highest paid players in the NFL why?

They gave Pennington that contract before his first rotator cuff surgery.

[TimD]

I can't wait for FA to start. I just want to forget last season and look to the future again.

[gio]

Its not even that the Jets are cheap, but they're spending the big money on the wrong guys. DeWayne Robertson, Chad Pennington and Shaun Ellis (especially Robertson) are three of the highest paid players in the NFL why?

you can thank terry bradway and herm for robertson contract. i think ellis is the only consistently average or above average player on our D line for the last 7 years, so i dont mind the money we give him. bryan thomas wasnt worth the money , and how can we forget the nightmare known as john abraham- thank god we never signed him back. our D line needs a lot of help and we need young players who are willing to sign a multi year contract who are already established in the league...we don't need any more "driftwood", players who are just floating downstream toward retirement, like kimo von whatever his name is (or for guys who were fans in the 90s, who can forget tony castillas from dallas? omg, i can't believe i said that name..lol..)

[Crickett]

you can thank terry bradway and herm for robertson contract. i think ellis is the only consistently average or above average player on our D line for the last 7 years, so i dont mind the money we give him. bryan thomas wasnt worth the money , and how can we forget the nightmare known as john abraham- thank god we never signed him back. our D line needs a lot of help and we need young players who are willing to sign a multi year contract who are already established in the league...we don't need any more "driftwood", players who are just floating downstream toward retirement, like kimo von whatever his name is (or for guys who were fans in the 90s, who can forget tony castillo from dallas? omg, i can't believe i said that name..lol..)

But Ellis, like Vilma belongs in the 4-3. In the 4-3, he's an above average to pro bowl caliber defensive end. In the 3-4, he's part of a defensive line that gets mauled regularly. It saddens me to think that he was tied for the teams sack lead with FIVE

:mad:

As for Bryan Thomas, I put some of the blame on people who touted how much better of a run blocker he was than John Abraham and that he was "always getting pressure on a QB but was one step away from getting the sack". That was never true.

[BroadwayJoe10]

But Ellis, like Vilma belongs in the 4-3. In the 4-3, he's an above average to pro bowl caliber defensive end. In the 3-4, he's part of a defensive line that gets mauled regularly. It saddens me to think that he was tied for the teams sack lead with FIVE

:mad:

As for Bryan Thomas, I put some of the blame on people who touted how much better of a run blocker he was than John Abraham and that he was "always getting pressure on a QB but was one step away from getting the sack". That was never true.

And he would have been beat out if we didn't figure out david harris could rush the passer 3/4 of the way through the season haha. I know some don't like Coleman, but he's one of the few dlineman i think fills his role very well, however I beleive with a true 34 DE taking the place of ellis we could see a lot more out of our OLB. Well, maybe not hobson, but bryan thomas and whoever we get for our new OLB could see a lot of 1 on 1 matchups if our DEs could take on two blockers every down like they're suppose to.

As for Travelle Wharton or Jordan gross, I'm pretty interested to see what carolina does with them. One of them is going to have to be let go and even though gross wants to stay and is probably better, he is the RT. I have a feeling gross could be moved over to LT and they draft a RT or draft a LT and keep gross there. My point is, I'm pretty sure one of them is going to be let loose and it will increase the depth of the oline class.

[jmess15]

I'm not really impressed by Dorsey or Ellis. Yes they are good players, but they aren't fit for the 3-4. Robertson is a good player and look what happened to him when they put him in the 3-4. Systems have to fit the players not the other way around, and we should be drafting guys who fit our system and team needs.

There are two schools of thought here...I think implementing the system around your personnel is the better route. I hate when these coaches are married to systems and force it on their teams often setting them back until they get the right personnel. The Jets tried to morph guys into 3-4 players, when most people knew that two of their better players (Vilma & Robertson) were poor fits. Heck, when Robertson & Vilma were drafted everyone said they were perfect fits for Herm's 4-3 cover 2. A similar thing happened with Hobson, when he was coming out people said he would be a good fit for the ILB in the 3-4, so what happens? When we get the 3-4 they leave him outside...

JM

[Crickett]

There are two schools of thought here...I think implementing the system around your personnel is the better route. I hate when these coaches are married to systems and force it on their teams often setting them back until they get the right personnel. The Jets tried to morph guys into 3-4 players, when most people knew that two of their better players (Vilma & Robertson) were poor fits. Heck, when Robertson & Vilma were drafted everyone said they were perfect fits for Herm's 4-3 cover 2. A similar thing happened with Hobson, when he was coming out people said he would be a good fit for the ILB in the 3-4, so what happens? When we get the 3-4 they leave him outside...

JM

We Jets fans are blasted for turning on Mangini two years in, but here is the reason why. With the exception of David Harris and Kenyon Coleman, is there anyone on the Jets defense better suited to the 3-4?

[TimD]

Its ridiculous because all the players pre-Mangini are 4-3 players. All the post-Mangini players are 3-4. If Mangini would have given in we would have an entire defense of 4-3 guys and they might be very successful.

Front 7

4-3 Players
Shaun Ellis
Dwayne Robertson
Jonathon Vilma

3-4 Players
David Harris
Kenyon Coleman
Sione Pouha

Can Play Either
Eric Barton
Victor Hobson
Bryan Thomas

[gio]

We Jets fans are blasted for turning on Mangini two years in, but here is the reason why. With the exception of David Harris and Kenyon Coleman, is there anyone on the Jets defense better suited to the 3-4?

im not turning on mangini after 2 seasons, but i think he is trying too hard to implement something he doesnt have the personnel for..if he would have stuck with the 4-3, he would have better results, at least on the defensive side of the ball..if he was going to drag out this 3-4 ideology for the 3rd season, obviously he is, than he should have s**tcanned the whole defense in 06 and start from scratch, not try and plug in players to see if they can change their role.

[hcbrad08]

I don't see us being a top 10 43 defense so why not let mangini at this point implement his system... Why not mask some of our blitzing packages and coverage schemes to keep teams guessing if our 43 is going to be middle of the pack...I could see the 1st year questions as the team was set up to play 43 and some 2nd year questions but to be honest there wasn't much of a way to change the D to an exclusive 34 last year but the thing is a 34 can turn into a 43 with one blitzer and a slide of the linebackers. We haven't been playing traditional 34 defense anyway there are a significant number of times when the D lines up in a straight 43 as opposed to the 34 and more times when the 34 turns into the 43 bc its easier to rush one more than to have a DE put his hand down and then drop into coverage. Im fine with our defense moving forwarda and frankly the criticism of our system is getting tired...we have 43 players and a 34 coach thats not manginis fault he cant just firesale the players. Also his methodology and approach stating that a 34 is better than a 43 is proven. 34 defenses when traditionally assembled over the course of 3 or 4 years have been proven to be better than 43 Ds which was mhy mike tomlin who was a defensive coordinator who knew the 43 cover 2 stayed with the 34...he saw the success the 34 brings when implemented or schemed properly...he also was able to motivate his players much better and that's what he could offer besides being a defensive coord. (unlike mangini whos known to be a brain)
teams who use a full on 34
-Patriots
-Chargers
-Steelers
-Ravens
-Dallas

their success percentage is much better than the rest of the league who uses 43s or teams like us or san fran who have hybrid Ds.


my point is that with last years draft and the year befores cap situation we could not replace our weaknesses on D ie NT DE OLB. Yet our defense has shown that it can keep us in games 2 years ago and last season was ranked 1st against the pass after the bye week. This season should be transformative for the defense we have the money and the Draft sets up perfectly for us to go and sign or draft players for the 34. I truly think if we can get a NT Vilma (like Ray Lewis) is fine to play in the 34 despite being a 43 player...DL like DROB and Ellis can't adjust or hide weaknesses in such a system bc no one is there to keep them CLEAN. Finally, I think with a good draft which we've seen is more than likely with our FO that we can turn our D asround and build from within which is the ultimate key to unlocking the door to the superbowl.

Our 43 front 7
Ellis Drob Coleman Thomas
Hobson Vilma Harris

Our 34 front 7

Ellis Drob Coleman
Hobson Vilma Harris Thomas

for me thats negligable neither is top flight and one may be able to say oh that 43 is much better than that 34 but how much what is that 43 15th in the NFL the 34 (which can mask and morph) is close to 15th.

Guys we should target in the draft and FA

DE
Pat Sims (IMO the best 34 DE prospect in the draft)
Kentwan Balmer
Dre Moore
Paul Spicer (FA)
Tommy Kelly (FA)
Corey Williams (FA)

NT
Sedrick Ellis
Ahytiba Rubin
Marcus Harrison
Frank Morton
Shaun Rogers (Pot. FA)

OLB
TONS

we can make this a 34 defense the best way to start would be to get rid of DRob via trade or release and to sign or trade for shaun rogers

if we had shaun rogers we would not needd to draft ellis rubin or anyone else at NT in fact with Shaun Rogers (the subsequent and overly cautious draft picks....(no Gholstons falling to the 3rd rd if you know what i mean) I believe we can be a playoff contender right away. There are a lot of moves to be made lets forget about saying that mangini should switch to a 43 bc its not going to happen and it probably wouldn't bode well for the team.

1)Vernon Gholston
2)Pat Sims
3)Carl Nicks
4)Mike McGlynn
5)Adrian Arrington
6)Darnell Terrell

Our 34 front 7 is then
Sims Rogers Coleman
Gholston Vilma Harris Thomas

you would also have ellis to come in at the hybrid position they found lineing him up in a stand up position as well as a pass rushing DE. You also have Barton to give you not only depther inside or out but a decent started if need be. With Sims and Rogers and Gholston rushing Thomas would probably revert back to his 8 sack season form. Vilma would be blocked off and could make plays next to the best rookie LB in football this year (well at the very least the best in the AFC...that side note is for any trollers who want to start something I genuinely believe Harris is more valuable to the Jets than Willis to the 49ers) anyway the defense is much better off for a 34 and there are piece to allow it to morph and excel as a 43 too so IMO...we should not worry or complain but look at the immense amount of possibilities.

[nvot9]

I think in the end though, the 3-4 defense is generally perceived as a better shutdown defense and the dominance of his alma matters defense was reason to change as well. We can play the "what if" game all we want, and it's true that we'll never know for sure, but I can almost guarantee you that our team would not be that much difference had we been in the 4-3, our defense was aging and aside from Vilma, we had no real good players in the 4-3 who COULDN'T transition to the 3-4. We were never a standout D prior to the 3-4, whereas now we are on our way to being a top defense.

[thetedginnshow]

For whomever was talking about the Panthers' OT's, Gross is said to almost certainly be franchised. I'd expect Wharton to get signed on, but maybe not. I'm not sure he'd be terribly effective at RT anyway, but who knows.

As for the 3-4 defense, there's no point in looking back now. I think we could very easily convert to the 3-4 defense. With an excellent off-season, we could really turn the defense around so long as we get the right pieces in place. I don't think it's quite as hard as some may make it sound.

[Mr.Regular]

Hey Jets fans, I was making a mock and it when it came to your pick I hit a roadblock. Gholston, Ellis, McFadden, Jake Long, and Chris Long were all gone. Who do you think youd take there? I was thinking Harvey, but not entirely sure. Can you help me out?

[nvot9]

Hey Jets fans, I was making a mock and it when it came to your pick I hit a roadblock. Gholston, Ellis, McFadden, Jake Long, and Chris Long were all gone. Who do you think youd take there? I was thinking Harvey, but not entirely sure. Can you help me out?

Ellis is a likely choice, Harvey is my preferred choice.

[thetedginnshow]

Ellis is a likely choice, Harvey is my preferred choice.

He said Ellis was gone.

I'm almost undoubtedly along on this, but I'd rather see Dorsey than Harvey. Dorsey just has something about him that can't be measured with tests that makes me believe he could be special, regardless of the situation. With Harvey, I think he's terribly overrated, but oh well.

On a side-note, this is what I fear will happen in the actual draft. All of those players being drafted, that is. The most we could hope for is someone like the Bengals or Lions wanting to trade up for Dorsey.

[gio]

Hey Jets fans, I was making a mock and it when it came to your pick I hit a roadblock. Gholston, Ellis, McFadden, Jake Long, and Chris Long were all gone. Who do you think youd take there? I was thinking Harvey, but not entirely sure. Can you help me out?

trade the pick, get players or picks

[nvot9]

Jets Off-Season (FA only)

Sign Tommy Kelly - I think this move would be HUGE. Kelly is such a tremendous run stopper and would really help our DLine, I think he'd be a great NT.

Sign Calvin Pace/Clark Haggans - I think we're going to have to get TWO OLB's this off-season. One in the draft, and another in FA. Obviously not getting Dansby or Suggs, I'd love Calvin Pace (he's huge...272 lbs and a great pass rusher off the edge) to be a starter, and I'd love Clark Haggans to be a back-up or even starter...can still get 5-8 sacks I believe...upgrade over Thomas?

Sign Shawn Andrews/Shane Locklear/Alan Faneca/Jacob Bell - I really don't know if we've got a shot at any of these guys, all but Faneca seem like they'll be resigned, and with Faneca's age, is he worth ALL the money that he's gunna ask/be given due to bidding wars? I dnno..Jets have tons of cap space but I just don't know the likelihood. I'd love any of these guys though...no other OLman via FA though.

Sign Randall *** - Seems like a perfect fit...we need a veteran CB who's actually good, sucked in the Jags game though so I dnno.

[thetedginnshow]

Hmm. I don't know if the Cards would get rid of Pace considering how they've changed around their defense. DTs off knee surgeries are pretty sketchy though, so I don't know how I feel about that. And it's Stacy Andrews, now Shawn. I'm not sure what to think of Sean Locklear. I don't think he'll be leaving Seattle, but if he does, it's because he's not very good. He got beat quite a bit on the right side there this season.

[thetedginnshow]

Did anyone hear about us getting offered Roy for Vilma straight up? I saw it on some other message board, but no link. That'd almost be too good to be true, but I sort of doubt it. Anyone want to make my day and say they've heard about this?

[Crickett]

I don't see us being a top 10 43 defense so why not let mangini at this point implement his system... Why not mask some of our blitzing packages and coverage schemes to keep teams guessing if our 43 is going to be middle of the pack...I could see the 1st year questions as the team was set up to play 43 and some 2nd year questions but to be honest there wasn't much of a way to change the D to an exclusive 34 last year but the thing is a 34 can turn into a 43 with one blitzer and a slide of the linebackers. We haven't been playing traditional 34 defense anyway there are a significant number of times when the D lines up in a straight 43 as opposed to the 34 and more times when the 34 turns into the 43 bc its easier to rush one more than to have a DE put his hand down and then drop into coverage. Im fine with our defense moving forwarda and frankly the criticism of our system is getting tired...we have 43 players and a 34 coach thats not manginis fault he cant just firesale the players. Also his methodology and approach stating that a 34 is better than a 43 is proven. 34 defenses when traditionally assembled over the course of 3 or 4 years have been proven to be better than 43 Ds which was mhy mike tomlin who was a defensive coordinator who knew the 43 cover 2 stayed with the 34...he saw the success the 34 brings when implemented or schemed properly...he also was able to motivate his players much better and that's what he could offer besides being a defensive coord. (unlike mangini whos known to be a brain)
teams who use a full on 34
-Patriots
-Chargers
-Steelers
-Ravens
-Dallas


their success percentage is much better than the rest of the league who uses 43s or teams like us or san fran who have hybrid Ds.


my point is that with last years draft and the year befores cap situation we could not replace our weaknesses on D ie NT DE OLB. Yet our defense has shown that it can keep us in games 2 years ago and last season was ranked 1st against the pass after the bye week. This season should be transformative for the defense we have the money and the Draft sets up perfectly for us to go and sign or draft players for the 34. I truly think if we can get a NT Vilma (like Ray Lewis) is fine to play in the 34 despite being a 43 player...DL like DROB and Ellis can't adjust or hide weaknesses in such a system bc no one is there to keep them CLEAN. Finally, I think with a good draft which we've seen is more than likely with our FO that we can turn our D asround and build from within which is the ultimate key to unlocking the door to the superbowl.

Our 43 front 7
Ellis Drob Coleman Thomas
Hobson Vilma Harris

Our 34 front 7

Ellis Drob Coleman
Hobson Vilma Harris Thomas

for me thats negligable neither is top flight and one may be able to say oh that 43 is much better than that 34 but how much what is that 43 15th in the NFL the 34 (which can mask and morph) is close to 15th.

Guys we should target in the draft and FA

DE
Pat Sims (IMO the best 34 DE prospect in the draft)
Kentwan Balmer
Dre Moore
Paul Spicer (FA)
Tommy Kelly (FA)
Corey Williams (FA)

NT
Sedrick Ellis
Ahytiba Rubin
Marcus Harrison
Frank Morton
Shaun Rogers (Pot. FA)

OLB
TONS

we can make this a 34 defense the best way to start would be to get rid of DRob via trade or release and to sign or trade for shaun rogers

if we had shaun rogers we would not needd to draft ellis rubin or anyone else at NT in fact with Shaun Rogers (the subsequent and overly cautious draft picks....(no Gholstons falling to the 3rd rd if you know what i mean) I believe we can be a playoff contender right away. There are a lot of moves to be made lets forget about saying that mangini should switch to a 43 bc its not going to happen and it probably wouldn't bode well for the team.

1)Vernon Gholston
2)Pat Sims
3)Carl Nicks
4)Mike McGlynn
5)Adrian Arrington
6)Darnell Terrell

Our 34 front 7 is then
Sims Rogers Coleman
Gholston Vilma Harris Thomas

you would also have ellis to come in at the hybrid position they found lineing him up in a stand up position as well as a pass rushing DE. You also have Barton to give you not only depther inside or out but a decent started if need be. With Sims and Rogers and Gholston rushing Thomas would probably revert back to his 8 sack season form. Vilma would be blocked off and could make plays next to the best rookie LB in football this year (well at the very least the best in the AFC...that side note is for any trollers who want to start something I genuinely believe Harris is more valuable to the Jets than Willis to the 49ers) anyway the defense is much better off for a 34 and there are piece to allow it to morph and excel as a 43 too so IMO...we should not worry or complain but look at the immense amount of possibilities.

I'll start first by saying that the difference being that these teams that you mention (probably with the exception of Dallas) someone who can properly play the role of nose tackle.... and the Jets don't. Yeah, teams that run the 3-4 defense on the whole are more successful, but thats because those teams have the personel to run those defenses. It's not going to matter what the scheme is if you don't have the personel to properly run it.

Now maybe that'll change this offseason (believe me, there is no Jets fan on this board who is a bigger fan of a trade with Detroit for Shaun Rogers and possibly Roy Williams and Kevin Jones than me), but right now, thats the way it is.

Also, I'd think in a 4-3 defense, either Kenyon Coleman, C.J. Mosley or Sione Pouha would be the nose tackle. The difference between the 4-3 and the 3-4 isn't just one DE/OLB with his hand down or not. People have different responsibilities and different matchups. It would allow DeWayne Robertson to move back to undertackle where he always belonged and allow Shaun Ellis better opportunities to rush the passer.

I'll also say that I think Sedrick Ellis as I see him as someone who has the versatility to play either DT position in the 4-3, but none in the 3-4.

[TimD]

Okay so if Chad leaves, who do you think we'll pick up to be the backup? I don't think Tui is good enough to be the backup

[BroadwayJoe10]

I personally wouldn't mind seeing trent greeg; i'm not sure how many teams want him to be the QB they are relying on to start and win the entire season. I'm not sure how he feels about being a backup, probably not too fondly, however he could be enticed to play in NY due to the large market and the fact that he has opportunity to earn his starting job. Granted tannenbaum may have no intentions of Green starting, but given the idea that he could earn the right might make him like the prospect of the jets as opposed to other teams where he would 100% be the backup.

[Crickett]

I wouldn't mind Billy Volek. I think San Diego made a huge mistake not going with him against the Patriots considering Rivers' injury. Not only would Volek provide the Jets a quality backup, but I think Volek could potentially start for the Jets if Mangini thinks Clemens needs a bit more time.

Alas, with the signing of Heimerdinger, I have a feeling that he's heading back to Tennessee. We should never have let him go. :(

[AlexDown]

You would really want either of those guys over Pennington? Really, honestly?

[TimD]

I have another question. Have we expressed any interest in possible FA full backs or anyone in the draft? I like Owen Schmidt

[Crickett]

You would really want either of those guys over Pennington? Really, honestly?

Depends on the $$$$$$$

I know Pennington has restructed before, so I don't know what his current numbers are.

[hcbrad08]

a$$ load of guys cut by the dolphins and parcells which probably mean they suck but there are a ton of NT and RT including Joe Toledo former Washington T from a couple of years ago. any thoughts on signing any of the guys in this article

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3241124

[AlexDown]

Depends on the $$$$$$$

I know Pennington has restructed before, so I don't know what his current numbers are.

I think Pennington will be on the roster next season. I could definitely be wrong, but I feel he will be. Guess it is just a hunch. I don't think it would be really surprising if he beat out Clemens for the starting job or even starts of few games due to situational circumstances.

[Crickett]

a$$ load of guys cut by the dolphins and parcells which probably mean they suck but there are a ton of NT and RT including Joe Toledo former Washington T from a couple of years ago. any thoughts on signing any of the guys in this article

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3241124

Don't know enough about them to form an opinion, but if they were cut from a team that wasn't exactly known for its brick wall offensive line, thats not a good sign.

[AlexDown]

Also, how do you see Justin Miller contributing this year?

[Crickett]

Also, how do you see Justin Miller contributing this year?

I'll let you know after the preseason. I hope he can be a #2 corner, but as of right now, I doubt it. Funny when you think that once upon a time, he was supposed to be the answer to the Jets woes at CB. And that at the draft, we were literally chanting his name.

[AlexDown]

I'll let you know after the preseason. I hope he can be a #2 corner, but as of right now, I doubt it. Funny when you think that once upon a time, he was supposed to be the answer to the Jets woes at CB. And that at the draft, we were literally chanting his name.

This is an older, but interesting article on Mike Westhoff.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/sports/football/28jets.html

It really is amazing when you see how well both Miller and Washington have done on kickoffs. Both were playing at pro bowl levels in this regard.

['cuse-213]

I'll let you know after the preseason. I hope he can be a #2 corner, but as of right now, I doubt it. Funny when you think that once upon a time, he was supposed to be the answer to the Jets woes at CB. And that at the draft, we were literally chanting his name.

He just has so much potential. So fast and such a hard hitter. He was doing great before he got hurt last year. *Potentialy* I think we have a top 5 secondary. Remember potentialy. This is with us getting a pass rush and Miller and Smith/Elam improve.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I don't like the idea of Penny coming back and I think it would be in poor taste. I fully believe Clemens will beat him out in training camp as he had a phenomenal one last year. I don't think that having chad sit on the bench for 16 games would be in the best interest in the team; yes he is a team player, but for a guy who wants to start and beleives he can start, i doubt he takes wasting an entire year on the bench. I expect penny to be traded prior to training camp and the jets to bring in a quality backup quarterback.

Miller has/had a ton of potential as it has yet to be seen how he comes back from his injury. If he comes back in the same form, he has all the tools to be a #2 CB, a good #2 CB. Continuing with our secondary; Elam surprised me and I think with a whole offseason of preparation of training and watching films his production will only increase. I'll be interested to see if darnell bing can mount any type of competition between elam and smith, but i still expect elam to be the favorite to start.

Two other guys i'll be eager to see are Kareem Brown and Stuckey. If stuckey can stay healthy I expect him to surpass Brad Smith as our #3 receiver and make a significant contribution. I don't have any expectations for brown except to hopefully turn into a solid backup.

[Crickett]

Jets Off-Season (FA only)

Sign Tommy Kelly - I think this move would be HUGE. Kelly is such a tremendous run stopper and would really help our DLine, I think he'd be a great NT.

Sign Calvin Pace/Clark Haggans - I think we're going to have to get TWO OLB's this off-season. One in the draft, and another in FA. Obviously not getting Dansby or Suggs, I'd love Calvin Pace (he's huge...272 lbs and a great pass rusher off the edge) to be a starter, and I'd love Clark Haggans to be a back-up or even starter...can still get 5-8 sacks I believe...upgrade over Thomas?

Sign Shawn Andrews/Shane Locklear/Alan Faneca/Jacob Bell - I really don't know if we've got a shot at any of these guys, all but Faneca seem like they'll be resigned, and with Faneca's age, is he worth ALL the money that he's gunna ask/be given due to bidding wars? I dnno..Jets have tons of cap space but I just don't know the likelihood. I'd love any of these guys though...no other OLman via FA though.

Sign Randall *** - Seems like a perfect fit...we need a veteran CB who's actually good, sucked in the Jags game though so I dnno.


First, yes Tommy Kelly would be a huge signing. But IIRC, he was a DE when the Raiders used to the 3-4 and at 6'6 300, probably not a good fit for the nose.

Second, no, I wouldn't want the Jets to sign Haggins or Pace, who have only topped only topped six sacks once each. To me, that seems like the wrong direction i.e. mediocrity. The Jets don't need someone who might be a 5-7 or a 6-8 sack guy. They need an 8-10 or a 10-12 sack guy.

Third: With the number of free agents Tennessee has, Jacob Bell is a very real possibility for the Jets. And while Shawn Andrews isn't a free agent, I don't see why Stacey Andrews is off the radar.

Fourth: This has nothing to do with this post, but when I wrote what I did about the cuts from Miami, I didn't take a good enough look at the list. I saw names like Anthony Bryant and Joe Toledo and had no idea who they were. But yes, I wouldn't be upset if the Jets took a look at L.J. Shelton and Marty Booker.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I'm pretty sure I posted this a while ago, but wanted to gauge everyones reactions to it. Are there any holes that people see in gholston as a player?? The only thing i could think of would be his drive as a player and I've heard rumors he is a bit of a loner?? No red flags as far as character concerns, but I was just wondering what the negatives would be on him. I've seen that he was a bit stiff in coverage, but more fluid than merriman seemed to be when he came out.


* The parts that really stuck out to me where ~30 secs where he just bullrushed the RT and than ~ 1:05 where he has a TE Chip him and the RT try to block him down the field while running a stretch play to the outside..he gets moved a yard or two and still makes the tackle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJAOY9iLsno

[Crickett]

I'm pretty sure I posted this a while ago, but wanted to gauge everyones reactions to it. Are there any holes that people see in gholston as a player?? The only thing i could think of would be his drive as a player and I've heard rumors he is a bit of a loner?? No red flags as far as character concerns, but I was just wondering what the negatives would be on him. I've seen that he was a bit stiff in coverage, but more fluid than merriman seemed to be when he came out.

From what I've heard, he's not the most consistant bloke on the planet. Also, he kinda looks like he comes from the David Boston and Bill Romonowski school of working out if you know what I mean.

Those are my biggest concerns about him.

[BroadwayJoe10]

From what I've heard, he's not the most consistant bloke on the planet. Also, he kinda looks like he comes from the David Boston and Bill Romonowski school of working out if you know what I mean.

Those are my biggest concerns about him.


From what i've heard and seen regarding a lot of his inconsistency, is more a misconception from teams gameplanning around him and viewers having no idea what's going on. I spefically remember watching a game where Gholston had no sacks, but 4 qb hurries, all of which forced the qb to throw the ball away and than viewers saying he didn't do anything because he only had a few tackles and no sacks. Teams throughout the year, like LSU did, ran a lot of slants and short passing routes to negate his speed as well as ran stretch plays to the opposite side he was on. However, he possesses the athletic ability to stunt and do creative things to counteract the gameplanning; LSU just outcoached tOSU this year.

I know what ya mean about his body shape, but from what i've heard he's looked like that ever since highschool. Apparantly, he was big into weightlifting and didn't play any sports in highschool until the football coach found out he wasn't a teacher and begged him to come play. I find it hard to beleive someone as smart as he is would take steroids since he was in 9th grade and continue to do so, but i've heard of plenty more stupid things, so it wouldn't surprise me. I think the same thing whenever i see guys like vernon davis and even now jstew, but i guess we'll see.

[thetedginnshow]

He probably took a ton of supplements, but I doubt he juiced. Now Antonio Pittman, that was a guy that did...

In any case, I got to watch him up close at the 'Shoe this year and I'd say he's essentially a monster. Yeah, he's a little stiff in the hips, but with his ridiculous muscles, I think you have to kind of expect that, not to mention he's like 250-260. Of course, there were times where he was covering guys 15+ yards downfield, so I think he's got solid range. When he's able to stand up as a pass rusher (as he did on many occasions at Ohio State), he really is most effective. He certainly doesn't have motor problems, but I do think that if a bigger, budding elite Tackle locked onto him, he'd have issues for the fact that his array of pass rush moves is somewhat limited since he could get by on speed and strength so often. But that can all be taught, so I don't see anything else wrong with him. He's a "lead by example" sort of guy and real quiet, but great character. Just an all-around solid prospect with a cool name.

I really wish we could get him, but that almost seems too good to be true. It's hard imagining him slipping to us.

[gio]

I don't like the idea of Penny coming back and I think it would be in poor taste. I fully believe Clemens will beat him out in training camp as he had a phenomenal one last year. I don't think that having chad sit on the bench for 16 games would be in the best interest in the team; yes he is a team player, but for a guy who wants to start and beleives he can start, i doubt he takes wasting an entire year on the bench. I expect penny to be traded prior to training camp and the jets to bring in a quality backup quarterback.

Miller has/had a ton of potential as it has yet to be seen how he comes back from his injury. If he comes back in the same form, he has all the tools to be a #2 CB, a good #2 CB. Continuing with our secondary; Elam surprised me and I think with a whole offseason of preparation of training and watching films his production will only increase. I'll be interested to see if darnell bing can mount any type of competition between elam and smith, but i still expect elam to be the favorite to start.

Two other guys i'll be eager to see are Kareem Brown and Stuckey. If stuckey can stay healthy I expect him to surpass Brad Smith as our #3 receiver and make a significant contribution. I don't have any expectations for brown except to hopefully turn into a solid backup.

i agree, just cut your ties with chad already, and it will also split the locker room like i'm sure it did this past year. as far as who would be our #2, i think we should still be concerned about who will be our #1- i'm not too impressed with clemens, even though he was running for his life since he started..if we can acquire volek somehow, that would be great-we wanted him to begin with a couple years ago to replace chad anyway. would be a nice fit, and he won a hell of a playoff game against indy @ indy coming in as a backup.

[TimD]

Just an all-around solid prospect with a cool name.

A very cool name... haha

[gio]

zach thomas is most likely going to be released..even though he is passed his prime, he wouldn't be a bad asset if vilma is gone. he has the experience to mentor harris. i'm sure other teams are going to give him reasonable offers, but how great would it be to have him play his old team twice a year?

[BroadwayJoe10]

Even though he is a fin, I have always loved zach thomas and most likely always will, however he is not the right fit for our scheme and I would imagine he'll probably end up on a team that's ready to make a push. He is a bit undersized for our 34 and personally, after all the years he's put into the dolphins I hope he ends up with a good team that gives him a shot to get a ring (although if it's us keeping him from getting a ring that screw him hah).


1,000th post...i thought about waiting around for the perfect post, some kind of sublime information that we signed Stacy Andrews for 2 mill a year, however this ain't the case haha. Free agency starts soon boys, here's to a great offseason and season for the jets.

[nvot9]

Coles's is reportedly going to hold out this year....I say we trade him, geta pick (KC's 2nd rounder maybe lol, doubt it) and replace him in the draft or FA.

[Crickett]

Coles's is reportedly going to hold out this year....I say we trade him, geta pick (KC's 2nd rounder maybe lol, doubt it) and replace him in the draft or FA.

Holding out? What is he holding out for? Didn't he not want to continue his career that much longer? :confused:

[nvot9]

Holding out? What is he holding out for? Didn't he not want to continue his career that much longer? :confused:

No, quite the opposite I believe...

http://www.nj.com/jets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1203140141304900.xml&coll=1

[AlexDown]

Well, he says they would take care of him with a long term contract. He has only been in the league for 8 years, I thought it was a lot longer then that for some reason...

[TimD]

Wow Pete Kendall all over again? Just pay the man, he deserves it. Give him the extension and keep him in NY. If not trade him for high picks.

[AlexDown]

Well, Pete Kendall was asking for a new contract the year right after he was given one.....

[BroadwayJoe10]

He says the jets lied to him, but when you sign a 5 year contract extension and only play 3 without complaining and refuse to play the last two, isn't that lying??

"Coles got a $13 million bonus in 2003, a $5 million bonus in 2005 and total base salaries of more than $9 million over the last five years, meaning he's averaged about $5.5 million a year since the expiration of his rookie contract while averaging about 950 receiving yards a season." ~NYJB

He's 30 years old and coming off a injury riddled season. I love coles just as much as the next guy, but i'm tired of players signing a very nice contract, than wanting a new one halfway through it. If he's gonna hold out/act like this, than i think moving him for high value is the best option.

Edit: I would rather him be happy and on the team, but if he's gonna be a malcontent than i dunno how i feel how it.

[gio]

He says the jets lied to him, but when you sign a 5 year contract extension and only play 3 without complaining and refuse to play the last two, isn't that lying??

"Coles got a $13 million bonus in 2003, a $5 million bonus in 2005 and total base salaries of more than $9 million over the last five years, meaning he's averaged about $5.5 million a year since the expiration of his rookie contract while averaging about 950 receiving yards a season." ~NYJB

He's 30 years old and coming off a injury riddled season. I love coles just as much as the next guy, but i'm tired of players signing a very nice contract, than wanting a new one halfway through it. If he's gonna hold out/act like this, than i think moving him for high value is the best option.

Edit: I would rather him be happy and on the team, but if he's gonna be a malcontent than i dunno how i feel how it.

i said it as well, just get rid of him. he is an above average player, but not great..maybe herm wants him-hell, we can package something with him and penny to some team that needs WR and/or QB and get draft picks. i agree with you also when all these players sign 4-5 year deals, than midway start crying how they deserve more. coles is barely a #1 WR anyway, most other teams he would be #2 (ex. lions, pats, gb, nyg, cincy). quick question- what are your thoughts of possibly getting in the mix for crumpler?

[AlexDown]

No to Crumpler. Not saying he won't be good but he is not going to be worth what we would have to give him juts to upgrade over Baker. He reports to training camp every year out of shape and he drops so many passes.

If we traded Coles, our WR core would be god awful.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I'll say a definate no to crumpler and i want to make it clear that i do want coles on this team, but not for a long contract extension. Our WR core would be terrible, but this is the best time to get good value for him. He is aging, banged up and isn't worth the type of money and extension that he seems to want. He has always been after the bigger better deal and i don't think this is any exception. I love him, but i refuse to forget when he left us for the redskins for more money and badmouthed us in the papers. We will see i guess.

[Gang Green]

You can remember how he left us for the Reskins, or you can look at all of the miraculous plays and catches he made for the Jets this season when the season was long gone. I'm not sure many other recievers would do that in the league. If he left we would quite possibly have the worst offense in the league along with a subpar defense.

[Crickett]

You can remember how he left us for the Reskins, or you can look at all of the miraculous plays and catches he made for the Jets this season when the season was long gone. I'm not sure many other recievers would do that in the league. If he left we would quite possibly have the worst offense in the league along with a subpar defense.

Bingo. Right now, receiver is not a big need for the Jets. Take Coles out of the picture and its probably the biggest need on the team. And not one thats going to be truly filled through the draft.

[BroadwayJoe10]

No one is advocating getting rid of coles, but what good is a guy to the team if he won't be able to stay on the field or if he sits out?? Yes coles is our best reciever, but he was getting paid extremely well to be our best reciever. You don't give a guy extra years and more money just because you like him. You give him more money and extra years if you think he can stay on the field and be productive.

I definately agree that our offense would be aweful without him, but it won't be any better if he's sitting out whining about not getting a new contract that it doesn't seem he deserves. Our FO has guaranteed him the last 2 years and 11 million dollars, which is pretty amazing as far as general managers are concerned. This is also the same guy who said he wasn't sure how much longer he was going to be able to play, but now he wants to play more years on top of the two years he has remaining?? That doesn't seem right. It seems more like a player who sees his career dwindeling down and wants to cash in on a bigger contract. I don't blame him at all, but you can't blame our front office for not giving in either.

[TimD]

If we trade Coles we need to take a WR with one of the picks we get in return for him. Sweed, Manningham, etc. in Round 2 would help. But is Cotchery really a number 1? I mean if we get rid of Coles, we'll have Cotchery, Smith, Wright, and Stuckey. Not good.

[Crickett]

If we trade Coles we need to take a WR with one of the picks we get in return for him. Sweed, Manningham, etc. in Round 2 would help.

Not a fan of this. First, the Jets aren't going to get a whole lot for Coles. Maybe a third rounder because of his age. Second, I don't think any of these guys would be able to fill the hole in the offense losing Coles would cause. Especially Manningham, who I want no part of.

in Round 2 would help. But is Cotchery really a number 1? I mean if we get rid of Coles, we'll have Cotchery, Smith, Wright, and Stuckey. Not good.

Cotchery is a great #2 receiver. But thats all he is IMO.

[Gang Green]

I honestly think that there is no way that Coles is leaving New York anyway, so this isn't the biggest issue.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I would think that we would look to free agency to fill a need and possibly a draft pick if he leaves. I don't think our front office, and rightly so, will give into his contract demands. Is this the new way players demand more money?? It's pathetic. He signs a very lucrative deal and then halfway through it when he doesn't get what he wants, he chooses to sit out instead of get 5 million a year. We all know coles means a lot to this team, but he has an inflated sense of his worth, his 5 mill a year is a good deal. He isn't an elite reciever who is going to get 8+ million a year.

I see no reason why an ernest wilford or bryant johnson can't be had for the same amount of money and do the same thing coles did. They're younger and fit the rebuilding mode of our team moreso than an aging veteran.

Now, if coles wants to strap it up for two more years where he would make 11 million total, than i'm all for it. But, if he won't play without a contract extension than i see no reason not to trade him.

[gio]

you know what? they said the same thing about john abraham, that if the jets dont sign him to a big contract they were crazy..he had a career year in 05 when they were dogs**t, just like coles had an average to above average year at best in 07. doesnt mean he deserves the keys to the bank though. the jets were fine without abraham and they will be fine without coles AGAIN just like they were fine in 04 without him.

[Crickett]

you know what? they said the same thing about john abraham, that if the jets dont sign him to a big contract they were crazy..he had a career year in 05 when they were dogs**t, just like coles had an average to above average year at best in 07. doesnt mean he deserves the keys to the bank though. the jets were fine without abraham and they will be fine without coles AGAIN just like they were fine in 04 without him.

I'm not saying the Jets give Coles a blank check, but he doesn't have the same injury problems that Abraham did and the concerns that we had about Abraham leaving (the pass rush going down the crapper) have been realized. As for the Jets being fine in '04 without Coles, the Jets WR group was a heck of a lot better in '04 than it is now withour Coles.

Back then we had Chrebet and Moss and McCareins wasn't dropping everything thrown at him.

Now without Coles we have Cotchery and a whole lot of nothing.

[AlexDown]

Muhsin Muhammad was just cut by the Bears. Any opinions on him?

[Crickett]

Muhsin Muhammad was just cut by the Bears. Any opinions on him?

Old
Over the hill
Has never really excelled except in contract years
Someone I want the Jets to stay away from.

[thetedginnshow]

If he could stay healthy, D.J. Hackett would be a steal (for the contract I assume he'll command, anyway).

[TimD]

What is McCareins deal? What happened to the guy. He wasn't that bad the first few years. I thought he had some potential.

[TimD]

JW

who is our Team Leader? I mean for the New York Jets Forum

[AlexDown]

It was a poster named frogstomp, but he was banned a while ago.

[jetsman309]

hey guys I don't know if some of you remember me but I was here a while ago and I start becoming more active around the draft time. I read the last 2 pages of this thread and just wanted to chime in on the whole coles situation. I think that we should take a look at stallworth when he will probably be released by the patriots and trade coles for a pick. I think that having cotchery #1 and stallworth #2 would be great for us.

[Crickett]

hey guys I don't know if some of you remember me but I was here a while ago and I start becoming more active around the draft time. I read the last 2 pages of this thread and just wanted to chime in on the whole coles situation. I think that we should take a look at stallworth when he will probably be released by the patriots and trade coles for a pick. I think that having cotchery #1 and stallworth #2 would be great for us.

Stallworth might be nice as would Kelley Washington even though we'd be accused of copying the Patriots. The question you have to ask though is how much would they cost?

[hcbrad08]

The fact that the Patriots offered a contract to Zach Thomas proves that you can run a 34 with undersized LBs as long as the beef up front is substantial... Again...Championships are won in the trenches

Ty Warren 6'5'' 300
Vince Wilfork 6'2'' 325
Richard Seymour 6'6 315

If we can get some beef up front and as long as Vilma can be kept in check I want him on the team. Shaun Rogers in FA and Pat Sims in the 2nd Rd of the draft would do WONDERS....Thoughts.

[jetsman309]

Just looked at some news that we are interested in Asante Samuel. I remember last year we were also interested and we all thought it sounded good. what are your thoughts on getting him this year?

http://www.kffl.com/team/27/nfl

edit-link to where i saw it

[Crickett]

Just looked at some news that we are interested in Asante Samuel. I remember last year we were also interested and we all thought it sounded good. what are your thoughts on getting him this year?

http://www.kffl.com/team/27/nfl

edit-link to where i saw it

http://www.sarahbaingallery.com/monks/Arm.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Gray1240.png

This is how much its going to cost for the Jets to get Asante Samuel. Given that, I'd say I hope they don't sign him.

[gio]

hey guys I don't know if some of you remember me but I was here a while ago and I start becoming more active around the draft time. I read the last 2 pages of this thread and just wanted to chime in on the whole coles situation. I think that we should take a look at stallworth when he will probably be released by the patriots and trade coles for a pick. I think that having cotchery #1 and stallworth #2 would be great for us.

samuel i think is a little overrated, but he is probably the best FA on the market at his position..but you are right, i wouldn't give up everything just for one player, we have a few more important holes i think on both sides of the line...as far as stallworth, he always seems to be hurt, and when he was successful, it was because guys were doubling welker and moss. cotchery isn't a #1, and if you were to compliment his speed, i would look at a guy like justin gage from tennessee or even berrian (who is also fast). the reasons why i like berrian so much is because he posted a lot of catches last year, had almost 1000 yards, and scored almost as much as coles. more importantly, he plays in cold weather, stays healthy, and caught from 3 different QBs last year, so he can adjust from, lets say, chad to clemens, or who ever our QB is next year. just a thought.

[Crickett]

samuel i think is a little overrated, but he is probably the best FA on the market at his position..but you are right, i wouldn't give up everything just for one player, we have a few more important holes i think on both sides of the line...as far as stallworth, he always seems to be hurt, and when he was successful, it was because guys were doubling welker and moss. cotchery isn't a #1, and if you were to compliment his speed, i would look at a guy like justin gage from tennessee or even berrian (who is also fast). the reasons why i like berrian so much is because he posted a lot of catches last year, had almost 1000 yards, and scored almost as much as coles. more importantly, he plays in cold weather, stays healthy, and caught from 3 different QBs last year, so he can adjust from, lets say, chad to clemens, or who ever our QB is next year. just a thought.

Stallworth was underutilized as a Patriot as was great in Philly when he was McNabb's only legitimate receiving option. I don't want the Jets to get Berrian, because I don't think he is as good as his numbers indicate and that he benefits from Rex "throw it up and pray" Grossman. As for Justin Gage, the Titans had the worst receiver group in the NFL. They couldn't catch and they were never open. Gage was their #1 guy by default. They simply didn't have anyone better and by better I mean less awful.

[AlexDown]

If anyone is interested, NFL Total Access did an interview with D'Brickashaw.

http://www.nfl.com/videos

I don't know the direct link, but if you follow that one, it is on the bottom of the page.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I didn't know frogstomp got banned, i was wondering what happened to a lot of the guys from a year ago.

Anyways, I think stallworth could be a great addition, but it all depends on how much he'll cost. He is only 27 and has all the ability in the world, but never could stay healthy prior to this year. He can stretch the field and is a legit deep threat, which opens up the underneath stuff for cotchery and hopefully stuckey this coming season.

I have been completely turned off from shaun rogers. He is too lazy and isn't someone you can rely on. I also don't think your usual space eater is exactly what mangini is looking for; he asked pouha too lose weight this past offseason and it seems he wants a DROb, but stouter at the point of attack. He wants someone to collapse the pocket, hold his ground and be able to shoot gaps when asked to. I admit that Rogers can do that if he wants to, but i just don't think he wants to.

I also am off the samuel bandwagon. He's going to command a nate clements type contract and i don't think he's worth it for this team. We have a #1 cb in the making and we've been playing more man to man this past year as opposed to zone. Samuel is a playmaker and ball hawk, but he is too undersized for my liking to constantly be playing man to man. I'm not saying he's bad at it, but i don't want to spend 9 or 10 million a year on a guy who's essentially going to be a #2 or #1b QB.

[Crickett]

I have been completely turned off from shaun rogers. He is too lazy and isn't someone you can rely on. I also don't think your usual space eater is exactly what mangini is looking for; he asked pouha too lose weight this past offseason and it seems he wants a DROb, but stouter at the point of attack. He wants someone to collapse the pocket, hold his ground and be able to shoot gaps when asked to. I admit that Rogers can do that if he wants to, but i just don't think he wants to.

Here is what I'll say about Rogers. What you just read are the same things I read about Ted Washington before he became a Patriot. Thats why the Patriots got him for a fourth rounder. I don't think Rogers is a three down guy, but I'd rather have a dominant nose tackle for two downs than three downs of crap.

As for Mangini doesn't want a space eater and would rather have a DRob, well...... I have to wonder if what is trying to do will ever work. Yeah, there are good 3-4 defenses (not sure about the plural there, it may just be Dallas) without the space eating giganto nose tackle manning the middle, but not many.

[nvot9]

Yea, I agree with what Crickett said...those guys seem like products of their system to an extent.

I'd like to give Bryan Johnson a try as a big physics number 3 option, I think he can be very good there.

I also think this whole Cole's situation will determine a lot for us, I think we gotta see how that pans out before we decide if we wanna go for a number 1 WR or a number 2/3 WR.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I can certainly see that cricket and i'm all with you if we can get him on the ceap, but i don't want to give up a high pick if he's gonna take plays off the entire year. If he can get into shape than he'd definately be an asset, but we'll have to see what's up.


nvot i tried giving ya some rep, but your thing is gone to give ya some. I know it doesn't have any baring on how you are as a poster, becuase we all know your good, but it's still a shi*ty thing to have. If you get your thing back we'll try to get ya in the green. (also, what ever happened to frogstomp, howd he get banned??)

I do like Bryant johnson a lot and i think he has the potential to be a good #2 and possibly #1; he has all the tools you look for, but was constantly overshadowed by fitzy and boldin. I also wouldn't mind bringing ernest wilford in for a look, he'd be a good red zone threat who's a tough reciever and can make plays after the catch.

[AlexDown]

He was negative repped by a mod or admin, which incase you didn't know rep wise, is like the wrath of a 1,000 suns.

When I last talked to frogstomp, he told me he was banned because, his exact quote was "Hating DChess is against the rues". To bad, he was a really big contributer to the forum.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Yaa, I just read about it on the other forum, pretty rough.

And about frogstomp, that's also terrible. I remember disagreeing with him about a number of things, but he was always a great contributer and we need more jets fans like that.

[thetedginnshow]

I think Stallworth is a bit overrated, and especially for whatever he'll be asking. I don't know, I'm not a big fan. I still think we need bigger receivers, either physical enough or able to out-jump DBs enough to be dependable options in a more intermediate passing game. Bryant Johnson would not be a bad idea in my mind. I'm not sure what's happening with Crayton, but I don't think he'd be bad either. And of course, the draft is loaded with bigger receivers, so even if we took a guy in the 4th, 5th, even 6th round, I think we could potentially get a steal provided he has the potential.

[AlexDown]

In general, especially during the 2006 draft, while many of this did not agree on anything really lol, there were a LOT more people active on the Jets forum throughout the season. Once FA and the draft is in full swing though, I think it will get a more lively in these areas.

I don't know if you remember any of these guys or if they were before you were here but there was MyLostIntention, JetsFan3, Frogstomp, WildDude, just off the top of my head, all contributed a lot.

However, we have gained a lot of really strong posters as well.

[Crickett]

I think Stallworth is a bit overrated, and especially for whatever he'll be asking. I don't know, I'm not a big fan. I still think we need bigger receivers, either physical enough or able to out-jump DBs enough to be dependable options in a more intermediate passing game. Bryant Johnson would not be a bad idea in my mind. I'm not sure what's happening with Crayton, but I don't think he'd be bad either. And of course, the draft is loaded with bigger receivers, so even if we took a guy in the 4th, 5th, even 6th round, I think we could potentially get a steal provided he has the potential.

I'd like to see the Jets take a chance on Bryant Johnson. I like BroadwayJoe thinks he never got a fair shake after being permanently demoted to slot receiver in only his second season after the Cards drafted Fitz third overall. At worst he's a good slot receiver. At best, maybe he can establish himself like other former Cardinals draft picks did after they left (Kyle Vanden Bosch and Thomas Jones).

Not such a big fan of Crayton who when it mattered most began to have a horrid case of the dropsies.

[BroadwayJoe10]

In general, especially during the 2006 draft, while many of this did not agree on anything really lol, there were a LOT more people active on the Jets forum throughout the season. Once FA and the draft is in full swing though, I think it will get a more lively in these areas.

I don't know if you remember any of these guys or if they were before you were here but there was MyLostIntention, JetsFan3, Frogstomp, WildDude, just off the top of my head, all contributed a lot.

However, we have gained a lot of really strong posters as well.

Haha, ya i remember people not really agreeing on anything in the 2006 draft, but i didn't start posting till a little more than a year ago, but was viewing for about 2. I remember all of them cept for mylostintention, but we have a solid group of fans posting, but more is always welcome. Especially since a lot of us tend to agree on most of the same things, we don't have too much diversity...I mean hell, i could start playing devils advocate to just disagree with everyone, but yaa i don't see it happening.


Has anyone seen enough of the 49ers to give any info about isaac sopoaga?? From what i've seen, he seems at most a backup, but he is beastly strong and solid measurables. Not sure if he could be anything more than a backup or a pouha, just wondering what you've seen.

[bigbluedefense]

Any news on Vilma? Whats the plan with him? I figure, if he's really going to be traded, the rumors would start swirling right about now.

Vernon Gholston just makes too much sense for you guys. Im waiting until the combine to see how i feel about Ellis, but as of right now, I don't see him fitting your 2 gap scheme.

Even if he does, it would waste his talents. Gholston is the best 3-4 front 7 player in this draft, and he'll look real good in Jet green. It just makes too much sense.

[Crickett]

Any news on Vilma? Whats the plan with him? I figure, if he's really going to be traded, the rumors would start swirling right about now.

Vernon Gholston just makes too much sense for you guys. Im waiting until the combine to see how i feel about Ellis, but as of right now, I don't see him fitting your 2 gap scheme.

Even if he does, it would waste his talents. Gholston is the best 3-4 front 7 player in this draft, and he'll look real good in Jet green. It just makes too much sense.

I'd really really like to see Vilma as a Jet next year. As for Gholston, the question we have is no if the Jets would draft him, but will he be there at #6. Well, okay there is still a question if they'll draft him, but that would be a "We want Sapp!!!!" kinda deal IMO.

[AlexDown]

Any news on Vilma? Whats the plan with him? I figure, if he's really going to be traded, the rumors would start swirling right about now.

Vernon Gholston just makes too much sense for you guys. Im waiting until the combine to see how i feel about Ellis, but as of right now, I don't see him fitting your 2 gap scheme.

Even if he does, it would waste his talents. Gholston is the best 3-4 front 7 player in this draft, and he'll look real good in Jet green. It just makes too much sense.

I have not heard anything reliable about Vilma at all. I am really interested to see what the Jets do in FA. I still think Vilma can be effective. However, his stock right now is probably at an all time low. If traded, I don't see him getting much more then a mid / late 2nd. I very well could be wrong though.

[bigbluedefense]

I'd really really like to see Vilma as a Jet next year. As for Gholston, the question we have is no if the Jets would draft him, but will he be there at #6. Well, okay there is still a question if they'll draft him, but that would be a "We want Sapp!!!!" kinda deal IMO.

This might sound crazy, but if he has a sick combine, I can see him having a Mario Williams type of rise in stock and go #1 overall to Miami. He's either going #1 overall, or he'll fall to you guys at #6.

I don't think Chris Long is the guaranteed #1 if the Phins stand pat like everyone says he will be. He's not big enough to play DE, he's a little too big to play OLB in the 3-4, and even if he does slim down, I think Gholston will make a more dominant 3-4 OLB than Long will. To me Long has LE in the 4-3 written all over him at the NFL level.

So I wouldn't put it past Parcells to get Gholston over Long. I wouldn't count that possibility out.

[bigbluedefense]

I have not heard anything reliable about Vilma at all. I am really interested to see what the Jets do in FA. I still think Vilma can be effective. However, his stock right now is probably at an all time low. If traded, I don't see him getting much more then a mid / late 2nd. I very well could be wrong though.

Vilma is one of my favorite players, but he just has no business playing in this scheme. He's just too small. You guys don't even run a 4-2 nickel that could use him effectively. He just doesn't fit. Harris is a future stud, he'll make the absence of Vilma hurt a little less.

I just think, as long as you guys are a 3-4 team and Mangini is coach, it just won't work with Vilma. Youre better off cutting your loses and getting as much as you can out of him. I love the guy, and would hate to see him leave the NY market, but it has to be done if Mangini is your guy long term.

[Crickett]

This might sound crazy, but if he has a sick combine, I can see him having a Mario Williams type of rise in stock and go #1 overall to Miami. He's either going #1 overall, or he'll fall to you guys at #6.

I don't think Chris Long is the guaranteed #1 if the Phins stand pat like everyone says he will be. He's not big enough to play DE, he's a little too big to play OLB in the 3-4, and even if he does slim down, I think Gholston will make a more dominant 3-4 OLB than Long will. To me Long has LE in the 4-3 written all over him at the NFL level.

So I wouldn't put it past Parcells to get Gholston over Long. I wouldn't count that possibility out.


The team I'm actually most worried about selecting Gholston is St. Louis.

Defensive tackle isn't as big of a need.
I don't think Adam Carriker can move back outside.
And if Orlando Pace comes back, either Jake Long is stuck at guard or on the bench.

[bigbluedefense]

The team I'm actually most worried about selecting Gholston is St. Louis.

Defensive tackle isn't as big of a need.
I don't think Adam Carriker can move back outside.
And if Orlando Pace comes back, either Jake Long is stuck at guard or on the bench.

St. Louis is a hot mess on defense, horrible direction with their drafting. They draft Carriker, a 3-4 DE to play NT in a 4-3 Cover 2. Now they still need interior help. They might draft Dorsey and have Carriker and Dorsey as penetrating UTs in a front with no true NT (alot of Tampa 2 teams do this).

I don't see Gholston on that team. He's not worth that kind of investment in a Tampa 2, where you just have your DEs shoot up the field anyway. They have Little for that, they need interior push.

[AlexDown]

St. Louis is a hot mess on defense, horrible direction with their drafting. They draft Carriker, a 3-4 DE to play NT in a 4-3 Cover 2. Now they still need interior help. They might draft Dorsey and have Carriker and Dorsey as penetrating UTs in a front with no true NT (alot of Tampa 2 teams do this).

I don't see Gholston on that team. He's not worth that kind of investment in a Tampa 2, where you just have your DEs shoot up the field anyway. They have Little for that, they need interior push.

What value do put on Vilma as of right now?

[bigbluedefense]

What value do put on Vilma as of right now?

Id say at worst a late 2nd round pick. Maybe someone gives up a 1st for him, he's still young and we all know what he's worth in a 4-3 scheme.

The thing is the injury hurt his stock a little bit. But he's better than any 4-3 ILB in the draft when healthy, so that should help his stock out. Maybe a late 1st can be had for him.

Either way, its better than nothing.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I agree that his value is probably higher than a lot of people are agreeing with, but that's just because i've worked in a PT clinic and ortho lab for a couple years. I've seen my fair share of bone chip removals as well as their rehabs and it's no where near the dangers of microfracture and he should come back the same if not stronger. Barring freak accident of course.


I am hoping that Chris Long puts up good enough numbers to kind of force parcells hand to take him. He already has everything going for him except for the elite measurables, which if he puts up the correct agility and cone drills as well as the 40 he could make it very hard for the fins to not select him.


Edit: I agree that it makes too much sense for the jets. He has the potential to be an elite 34 OLB, which just so happens to be one of the biggest things the jets need. It's hard to script it any better, however you're right, if he blows up at the combine he could very well go #1 overall.

[Crickett]

St. Louis is a hot mess on defense, horrible direction with their drafting. They draft Carriker, a 3-4 DE to play NT in a 4-3 Cover 2. Now they still need interior help. They might draft Dorsey and have Carriker and Dorsey as penetrating UTs in a front with no true NT (alot of Tampa 2 teams do this).

I don't see Gholston on that team. He's not worth that kind of investment in a Tampa 2, where you just have your DEs shoot up the field anyway. They have Little for that, they need interior push.


For the Jets sake, I hope you're right.

[thetedginnshow]

Like some people have mentioned elsewhere, it's not really for certain that the Dolphins will run the 3-4 (unless word of that just came out). So if they in fact run the 4-3, there's a strong possibility they'll be taking one of the two top DTs, or possibly even Jake Long when it comes down to it. It's funny though with the Rams because I was thinking that they could conjure up memories of Merlin Olsen by taking one of the stud DTs, but then I reminded myself of Deacon Jones and got all worried again. I really think Carriker makes more sense on the outside rather than the inside, so I'd think that they should take Dorsey or Ellis, but who knows. I still doubt that Gholston will be there for our pick, but I'm still giving it hope for fear of what the Jets would draft instead.

[TimD]

Gholston would be the perfect pick. This is how I hope the draft works out.

Miami - Chris Long
St. Louis - Glenn Dorsey
Oakland - Sedrick Ellis (so we're not tempted)
Atlanta - Matt Ryan
Kansas City - Jake Long
Jets - Vernon Gholston

That'd be so nice for us.

[BroadwayJoe10]

For the Jets sake, I hope you're right.

Me too man, me too. I am not sure where guys like Dre Moore and Red Bryant are projected to go, my guess is high 2nd and high 3rd, but if there's a possiblity to come away with gholston and a solid 34 DE to take over from Ellis, than we could have drastically imrpoved our pass rush in one draft. The key to a great pass rush in a 34 is obviously a great pass rushing OLB, but having a 34 DE who can collapse the pocket and occupy two blockers just makes the OLB that much better.


Just a little reference I thought was halarious and saddening at the same time...I was watching house and he was talking about a pointless endeavor and he said the following, which made me die laughing than get painfully depressed haha "But when you're fourth down and a hundred to go, in the snow, you don't call a running play up the middle unless you're the Jets."

[thetedginnshow]

My hope is that beyond Matt Ryan, this QB class will look so pathetic that someone will want to throw a 2nd rounder our way for Pennington, then we could potentially take Cherilus and Moore in the 2nd with Gholston in the 1st, all the while picking up Shaun Rogers somehow. If that happened, I might just have to fly to New York to shake the hand of every member of our FO.

[hcbrad08]

Gholston would be the perfect pick. This is how I hope the draft works out.

Miami - Chris Long
St. Louis - Glenn Dorsey
Oakland - Sedrick Ellis (so we're not tempted)
Atlanta - Matt Ryan
Kansas City - Jake Long
Jets - Vernon Gholston

That'd be so nice for us.

If that were the case we would be tempted by Darren McFadden not to take him but to trade down to Dallas as Jerry Jones (an Arkansas alum) loves McFadden. I would love that situation for the Jets but I would not like the pick given the situation. I would love to drop down to 22 and 28 and draft

1a) Limas Sweed WR
1b) Branden Albert LG
2) Gosder Cherilus RT
3) Dre Moore DE
4)Tommy Blake OLB
5) Darnell Terrell CB
6) Bernard Morris QB

For those advocating taking Aythba Rubin...I really don't see how he could be better after playing at Iowa State than a Sione Pouha or Robertson if he's back or a 340 lb keith traylor at 39. We could also trade for Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers who have legitimate success in the NFL. Also if we draft a NT this year it would prevent us from drafting a NT next season for the future despite using one from the NFL this season...

That said unless we get McFadden to fall to us we will not get offers from other teams to trade up. Still Im not a huge advocate of drafting a NT I thought Sedrick Ellis had potential but Ive seen his style of playa nd we would be wasting talent.

List of NTs for 2009 draft
-Terrance Taylor: 6'0'' 315 (Michigan)
-Myron Pryor: 6'0'' 310 (Kentucky)
-B.J. Raji: 6'2'' 340 (BC)
-Antonio Dixon: 6'3'' 340 (Miami)

List of DEs for 2009 draft
Tyson Jackson: 6'5'' 295 (LSU)
Fili Moala: 6'5'' 300 (USC)
Jeff Owens: 6'3'' 295 (Georgia)
Demonte Bolden: 6'6'' 295 (Tennessee)
Pannel Egboh: 6'6'' 290 (Stanford)

Ultimately my point is next season there are 34 DL prospects coming out that could fortify our future and theyre are all from big schools and will play great competition. Im not saying forfeit this season but Im saying we can be competetive without forcing something at a position we can get a short term solution or long term and then have great options for the future. But if we should try to draft sub par prospects in terms of the grand scheme then the argument comes up well we drafted a NT last year or a DE last year (which I think we should do 2 years in a row very little depth to speak of for future) and now were going to draft another one, are we admitting last year was a failed experiment. I want the best franchise for a long time. and we need to invest in this draft in OL and some DL and whatever we favor in this draft we should favor the other in the next. Id love to combine som key FA signings but with good sources telling me Fanecas gonna be Cheif and other OL are B prospects in one way or another well I like to look to the draft and a young but discplined and huge/physical team.

[thetedginnshow]

If we traded down to get that, I'd probably cry.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Well Boys, we are one more day closer to figuring out who we will be selecting. I don't care that i have a nephrology exam today, the combine starts!! Here's to hoping when the day for DEs come that Chris long puts up fantastic numbers so the fins have to take him and gholston falls to us! hah

[AlexDown]

Ha!

I have a HUGE Shakespeare test tomorrow and I really don't know what to expect. Damn this site......

[Crickett]

I have absolutely no exams today. I have seven in them month of March (including the last day of February). Hooray. :rolleyes:

[thetedginnshow]

I had an Econ exam on Monday and I'm fairly sure I bombed that, so hooray for caring more about this site and the draft.

It's funny though. Living in Seattle all those years, I hated the Rams, even before the Seahawks happened to be in their conference. Just nothing to like about them. And here they are again. Just can't get away from them. If the Dolphins take Gholston, I'll be moderately pissed. If the Raiders do, I'll just curse at the sky and yell, "WHY GOD WHY?!?!?!" If the Rams take him or the Pats trade up to take him, I'll probably kill someone on campus.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Ha!

I have a HUGE Shakespeare test tomorrow and I really don't know what to expect. Damn this site......

Haha that's aweful, mine deals with the function and diseases of the kidney, and I would bet good money that's easier to understand than shakespeare. That's why i majored in bio/biochem, because when my books say something that's what it means, when your book says something, there's what.. 5 different meanings for each sentence?? Good luck bro.

Anyywayss..speaking of the combine, does anyone know who tests tommorrow?? Isn't it generally Dlineman for a couple days, than Olineman another couple days, or do they run everyone together??

[BroadwayJoe10]

I had an Econ exam on Monday and I'm fairly sure I bombed that, so hooray for caring more about this site and the draft.

It's funny though. Living in Seattle all those years, I hated the Rams, even before the Seahawks happened to be in their conference. Just nothing to like about them. And here they are again. Just can't get away from them. If the Dolphins take Gholston, I'll be moderately pissed. If the Raiders do, I'll just curse at the sky and yell, "WHY GOD WHY?!?!?!" If the Rams take him or the Pats trade up to take him, I'll probably kill someone on campus.

Haha me too, and i'm going to school to help people live...go figure right?

I can just see us gettin gholston, him turning into a super sack machine and injurs brady, much to the delight of jets fans across the country, however matt cassel turns out to be better than brady and curse our franchise again. Seriously though, would it kill them to draft a bust??

[Crickett]

I had an Econ exam on Monday and I'm fairly sure I bombed that, so hooray for caring more about this site and the draft.

It's funny though. Living in Seattle all those years, I hated the Rams, even before the Seahawks happened to be in their conference. Just nothing to like about them. And here they are again. Just can't get away from them. If the Dolphins take Gholston, I'll be moderately pissed. If the Raiders do, I'll just curse at the sky and yell, "WHY GOD WHY?!?!?!" If the Rams take him or the Pats trade up to take him, I'll probably kill someone on campus.

Given the events of the past year, I'd ask that you please not joke about that.

[hcbrad08]

THETEDDGINNSHOW why would you cry?

[hcbrad08]

Added this to my last post dont think anyone saw it...
For those advocating taking Aythba Rubin...I really don't see how he could be better after playing at Iowa State than a Sione Pouha or Robertson if he's back or a 340 lb keith traylor at 39. We could also trade for Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers who have legitimate success in the NFL. Also if we draft a NT this year it would prevent us from drafting a NT next season for the future despite using one from the NFL this season...

That said unless we get McFadden to fall to us we will not get offers from other teams to trade up. Still Im not a huge advocate of drafting a NT I thought Sedrick Ellis had potential but Ive seen his style of playa nd we would be wasting talent.

List of NTs for 2009 draft
-Terrance Taylor: 6'0'' 315 (Michigan)
-Myron Pryor: 6'0'' 310 (Kentucky)
-B.J. Raji: 6'2'' 340 (BC)
-Antonio Dixon: 6'3'' 340 (Miami)

List of DEs for 2009 draft
Tyson Jackson: 6'5'' 295 (LSU)
Fili Moala: 6'5'' 300 (USC)
Jeff Owens: 6'3'' 295 (Georgia)
Demonte Bolden: 6'6'' 295 (Tennessee)
Pannel Egboh: 6'6'' 290 (Stanford)

Ultimately my point is next season there are 34 DL prospects coming out that could fortify our future and theyre are all from big schools and will play great competition. Im not saying forfeit this season but Im saying we can be competetive without forcing something at a position we can get a short term solution or long term and then have great options for the future. But if we should try to draft sub par prospects in terms of the grand scheme then the argument comes up well we drafted a NT last year or a DE last year (which I think for DE we should do 2 years in a row very little depth to speak of for future) and now were going to draft another one, are we admitting last year was a failed experiment. I want the best franchise for a long time. and we need to invest in this draft in OL and some DL and whatever we favor in this draft we should favor the other in the next. Id love to combine som key FA signings but with good sources telling me Fanecas gonna be Cheif and other OL are B prospects in one way or another well I like to look to the draft and a young but discplined and huge/physical team.

[thetedginnshow]

Given the events of the past year, I'd ask that you please not joke about that.

Fair enough. I'll angrily punch someone on campus in delicate areas.


And as for why I would cry, if we traded down for Sweed and Albert, while nice prospects, that would be an absolute waste.

In other news, we should all hope than Clady tests well, because if he does, he could easily be KC's pick, which could potentially allow Jake Long to fall to us. Granted, none of you seem to be quite as alright with taking an OT at this point in the draft as I am, but eh. In the event we can't trade down and Gholston is in fact gone along with Ellis (that I'm not really all that high on in the first place for us) and Chris Long, I'd much rather draft Jake Long than the alternative, whether that be Run DMC, Derrick Harvey, or whomever else.

Well... for now at least. If Merling reminds me enough of Richard Seymour from now until draft day, there might just be a change of heart.

[AlexDown]

Although Scott was really ragging on the Jets for winning that last game, I don't think it will effect us. His reasoning was mainly that we would miss out on McFadden ( although he mentioned both Longs). However realistically, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the three were still there, not that I am advocating picking any of them.

I feel confident in our ability to have a good draft. I am not that worried. I am anxious to see what the Jets do in FA though.

[hcbrad08]

And as for why I would cry, if we traded down for Sweed and Albert, while nice prospects, that would be an absolute waste.


I guess I just don't see how getting a 6'5'' WR who jumps out of the gym and represents all that is lacking in our offense esp. the red zone and the best LG prospect (2 of our biggest needs) is a waste when drafting at 6 would really define waste as we would be taking BPA waaay outside of our needs or reaching for a good but not elite prospect, which is the main reason why a lot of teams like to trade out of the 6 7 and 8 picks.

I just want to know why you think its a waste not that it is a waste you mentioned that but why or how it falls under such a designation?

[gio]

i wouldnt mind getting sweed if it meant that we traded down and got rid of coles, vilma, or robertson for more picks/players. there is also a lot of talk that we are taking mckelvin at 6..i wouldnt mind that - we would save $$ trying to get samuel and put the cash toward someone else.

[jetsman309]

We signed Artrell Hawkins yesterday from the pats. I think we may be starting to copy them. Does anybody know anything about Hawkins? Where will he fit on our depth chart?

[Crickett]

i wouldnt mind getting sweed if it meant that we traded down and got rid of coles, vilma, or robertson for more picks/players. there is also a lot of talk that we are taking mckelvin at 6..i wouldnt mind that - we would save $$ trying to get samuel and put the cash toward someone else.

I would. I'm not convinced Sweed is all that and I don't see why the Jets should get rid of their best receiver in favor of an unproven who will require an additional investment beyond what the Jets get for Coles. I don't see the point in filling a lesser need (WR) when it means opening up a bigger one (ILB). And I really hope the Jets don't spend the #6 overall pick on a #2 cornerback.

[gio]

I would. I'm not convinced Sweed is all that and I don't see why the Jets should get rid of their best receiver in favor of an unproven who will require an additional investment beyond what the Jets get for Coles. I don't see the point in filling a lesser need (WR) when it means opening up a bigger one (ILB). And I really hope the Jets don't spend the #6 overall pick on a #2 cornerback.

im not saying picking up a rookie to replace an above average player is the answer to anything; i'm just preparing for the worst in the event that LC wants to hold out or be traded. as for picking a corner at #6, that would be if gholston or ellis is no longer available, and/or samuel is off the FA market. all i know is we have bad luck picking up players who were great on other teams, then s**t the bed or get injured when they came over to the jets (mccareins, boomer, o'donnell, casillas, the list could go on forever). the only player i know of that had a positive impact on the jets in the last decade is curtis martin.

[thetedginnshow]

I guess I just don't see how getting a 6'5'' WR who jumps out of the gym and represents all that is lacking in our offense esp. the red zone and the best LG prospect (2 of our biggest needs) is a waste when drafting at 6 would really define waste as we would be taking BPA waaay outside of our needs or reaching for a good but not elite prospect, which is the main reason why a lot of teams like to trade out of the 6 7 and 8 picks.

I just want to know why you think its a waste not that it is a waste you mentioned that but why or how it falls under such a designation?

Because while a large receiver is a need, it's certainly not one of our biggest needs. I could name five other positions I'd rather be addressed first. And plus, I think Sweed is overrated. Personally, one of the few places I think he could actually succeed is with the Titans simply because of that connection with Young. And personally, I think we need a physical receiver, more so than just some tall guy. And to be quite honest, I'd almost undoubtedly expect Cherilus to go before Albert. And unless he doesn't do well at the combine (and then he might not be worth taking, since so much of his stock is based on his athleticism), there's virtually no way Moore lasts until the 3rd. If we were to trade down, we'd better be addressing the line (either side) and/or OLB with those picks.

[Crickett]

Ryan Lilja is apparently off the market. I'm not too upset. I look at him like Rick DeMulling as a product of the Colts sytem.

[AlexDown]

Anyone see the cover of ESPN today?

[thetedginnshow]

Anyone see the cover of ESPN today?

Yeah. They're right beyond the part about us having to bring in a young QB. Or at least I don't think we have to anyway.

That was a big blow to our FA OL help when Andrews got franchised though. Hopefully we'll start to bring guys in fairly soon.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Ryan Lilja is apparently off the market. I'm not too upset. I look at him like Rick DeMulling as a product of the Colts sytem.

I'm not upset at all either. I like lilja, but as cliche as it might sound, i want some size at our LG. I would bet good money that Dbrick weighs in under 300 lbs towards the end of the season and I wouldn't doubt that lilja did as well, i don't like the idea of two less than 300 pounders on the blind side of our quarterback.

[gio]

Yeah. They're right beyond the part about us having to bring in a young QB. Or at least I don't think we have to anyway.

That was a big blow to our FA OL help when Andrews got franchised though. Hopefully we'll start to bring guys in fairly soon.

i would at least want some insurance for clemens, though..even if it is an older vet - not tui..

[hcbrad08]

Looks like Chris Sims will be available. I like him as a backup a lot. I would not mind signing Chris Redman either. Both are formittable backups and I think better than they get credit for, when playing both had some success as well as consistency and the team around them was simply not great. that said im not saying theyll be the starter or franchise QB we've been looking for but theyrre an upgrade over TUI and will compete with Clemens in a good and realistic way as opposed to saying competition breeds better players and have Tui a def 3rd string in camp you have a good number 2 and a guy who could take yoou job if you slack. Also wouldn't mind Todd Collins as a vet QB but at the same time I think Redskins will keep him.

[bigbluedefense]

If Jason Ferguson gets cut by the Cowboys, you guys should give him serious consideration.

[BroadwayJoe10]

If Jason Ferguson gets cut by the Cowboys, you guys should give him serious consideration.

I don't think our FO would give him that much of a look. I personally felt Grady Jackson deserved a shot and it didn't seem as if our FO gave it any thought. Also, for as bad as drob seems, his play is certainly magnified by ellis' poor play and some games he actually plays well. I havn't seen ferguson play much as of late, but if he can be an upgrade over pouha than by all means we should take a look.

[hcbrad08]

Parcells once said of Ferguson to the Dallas Press...I brought him from NY because he knows how to play the NT position. I don't care if you think he's undersized I know how to use him and it's at NT. He'll be a big part of this Cowboy Defense.

Considering Tannenbaum and Mangini seem to act at times like Parcells (and seek his advice about players ie. Kenyon Coleman) I think Ferguson could be brought in for an audition and given a chance to be a stop gap 2 down player. He's 33 and coming off of tearing both his biceps so his effectiveness has to be in question but a guy who knows the position seems like someone we should tryout at least. We'll see I agree with Joe I thought JAckson would have been a good NT but Tangini didn't.

[bigbluedefense]

I don't think our FO would give him that much of a look. I personally felt Grady Jackson deserved a shot and it didn't seem as if our FO gave it any thought. Also, for as bad as drob seems, his play is certainly magnified by ellis' poor play and some games he actually plays well. I havn't seen ferguson play much as of late, but if he can be an upgrade over pouha than by all means we should take a look.

jackson is an attacking DT, even though he's big. he doesn't fit the scheme.

i will discuss it all with you guys once the combine numbers come out and i have some free time on my hands. our PM discussion will be included in it all.

[BroadwayJoe10]

jackson is an attacking DT, even though he's big. he doesn't fit the scheme.

i will discuss it all with you guys once the combine numbers come out and i have some free time on my hands. our PM discussion will be included in it all.

I always thought that mangini wanted an attacking DT, which was why i thought he asked pouha to lose some weight in the offseason. I could be completely off and mangini truly wants a NT to just eat space and pouha was just outta shape, but he kept talking about Drob being a revolutionary type of NT who can occupy blockers (which he can't do too well) and shoot the gap. It also could have been a nice way of saying he isn't at all what i'm looking for, but he's here and we're going to use him.

Definately lookin forward to the conversation, because you're always able to give us the best direction you see our defense moving in and post combine will shake out a lot of things.

[gio]

Looks like Chris Sims will be available. I like him as a backup a lot. I would not mind signing Chris Redman either. Both are formittable backups and I think better than they get credit for, when playing both had some success as well as consistency and the team around them was simply not great. that said im not saying theyll be the starter or franchise QB we've been looking for but theyrre an upgrade over TUI and will compete with Clemens in a good and realistic way as opposed to saying competition breeds better players and have Tui a def 3rd string in camp you have a good number 2 and a guy who could take yoou job if you slack. Also wouldn't mind Todd Collins as a vet QB but at the same time I think Redskins will keep him.

if we would get chris sims, i would START him, not use him as a #2..i think he fits in with that whole "run first, pass second" gameplan, and i would like to see alot more of that for 08 with thomas jones..alot of people are saying TJ is overrated, but in a few situations last year he was barely used in the 2nd half, and the Oline sucked..anyway, sims has a decent arm and has a game under his belt in the playoffs, even though it was a loss. but the question is will chad be here, and alot of fans want him on the roster, especially if the only qbs some fans know are vinny and chad...chad is like that girlfriend everyone has had- the one that would do anything for you, the family loves her, but she isnt that hot and it would be hard as hell to break up with her but you know you have to get rid of her...lol...idk...maybe my analogy sucks but you get my point.

[Crickett]

if we would get chris sims, i would START him, not use him as a #2..i think he fits in with that whole "run first, pass second" gameplan, and i would like to see alot more of that for 08 with thomas jones..alot of people are saying TJ is overrated, but in a few situations last year he was barely used in the 2nd half, and the Oline sucked..anyway, sims has a decent arm and has a game under his belt in the playoffs, even though it was a loss. but the question is will chad be here, and alot of fans want him on the roster, especially if the only qbs some fans know are vinny and chad...chad is like that girlfriend everyone has had- the one that would do anything for you, the family loves her, but she isnt that hot and it would be hard as hell to break up with her but you know you have to get rid of her...lol...idk...maybe my analogy sucks but you get my point.


Depending on the price, I wouldn't mind if the Jets (or the Giants) signed Chris Simms. I feel he is a player who has received heaps of undue criticism since he got into the league. If the Jets did did sign Simms, well, may the best man win (the starting QB job). People forget that Phil didn't exactly light the league on fire his first few years.

Although to be truthful, I'd much rather see Chris Simms on the Giants for obvious reasons.

[TimD]

Chris Simms to the Jets would be a good idea. He has the arm strength to go down field, but does pretty well with the short passes. I think he would really develop if we get a better offensive line in front of him and TJ and Washington can carry the offense. Him to Cotchery could have some chemistry together...

[gio]

Chris Simms to the Jets would be a good idea. He has the arm strength to go down field, but does pretty well with the short passes. I think he would really develop if we get a better offensive line in front of him and TJ and Washington can carry the offense. Him to Cotchery could have some chemistry together...

what other teams would be interested in sims? the only one i see right now is miami because i can't see them spending a 1st rounder on a QB, and plus sims is in florida already, it would be a smooth transition to drive a few hours south. i know there are other teams who need a QB, but an opportunity to play in his own backyard would be a bigger benefit. how much do you think he would demand?

[jmess15]

Jets finally hired a replacement for Westhoff, which I believe will be our biggest loss in several years


http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/articles/show/2070-jets-name-kevin-o-dea-special-teams-coordinator

[BroadwayJoe10]

Jets finally hired a replacement for Westhoff, which I believe will be our biggest loss in several years


http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/articles/show/2070-jets-name-kevin-o-dea-special-teams-coordinator

Too bad he couldn't have brought hester with him. He seemed like he was a big part of the success in chicago, but i've also read that his ST struggled heavily out in 'zona i beleive it was in '04 and '05 or something around that time.

I just hope he can keep it respectable, because he's taking the place of arguably the best special teams coach in the league.

[hcbrad08]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/02/22/2008-02-22_jonathan_vilma_can_fly_away.html

big news...vilma has been given permission to shop himself for a trade

[Crickett]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/02/22/2008-02-22_jonathan_vilma_can_fly_away.html

big news...vilma has been given permission to shop himself for a trade

Big news? Yes.
Good news? No.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Big news? Yes.
Good news? No.

I think it's amazing news personally. We aren't going to get an elite NT and DE this year, which is the only way vilma could be succesfull in this scheme. If he struggled for 1 more year with us, why would he resign with us instead of enter free agency and get bigger money. There are a lot of potential teams, but I think the jaguars may emerge as the favorite; they have the massive dtackles as well as vilma's old DC donnie henderson. Plus it's in his home state. I will always like vilma and hope he suceeds wherever he goes, outside of the AFC east of course.

[hcbrad08]

I don;t know if Jacksonville is a given bc i read this morning that shaun rogers is seriously going to be traded and 5 or 6 teams including the jets are in the mix....considering the jets inactivity in trades in the past (excluding last year) i find it hard to believe they would trade vilma and then trade for rogers. we'll see i hope we get him hes a beast.

[BroadwayJoe10]

I wouldn't mind getting rogers, but it seems as though the broncos are the favorites as of now, but i have no idea. I havn't heard that the jets were interested, but that would be good news.

I also heard that the jets interviewed and were very interested in james hardy. http://www.jetscentral.com/?p=992

I'm not sure even if he's there with our top 2nd that we pull the trigger, but he sure would be a great addition, especially in the red zone.

[gio]

I wouldn't mind getting rogers, but it seems as though the broncos are the favorites as of now, but i have no idea. I havn't heard that the jets were interested, but that would be good news.

I also heard that the jets interviewed and were very interested in james hardy. http://www.jetscentral.com/?p=992

I'm not sure even if he's there with our top 2nd that we pull the trigger, but he sure would be a great addition, especially in the red zone.

it's a shame because i think vilma is a classy guy and a great player, but it had to be done..now is the time if we want anything for him.

[Crickett]

I wouldn't mind getting rogers, but it seems as though the broncos are the favorites as of now, but i have no idea. I havn't heard that the jets were interested, but that would be good news.

I also heard that the jets interviewed and were very interested in james hardy. http://www.jetscentral.com/?p=992

I'm not sure even if he's there with our top 2nd that we pull the trigger, but he sure would be a great addition, especially in the red zone.

Can he do a swanton? Twist of Fate? No? Then I'm not interested in the Jets drafting him.

Seriously though, it would be interesting to see the Jets draft him. He's very.... very tall, but can someone tell me his vertical? However, this makes me worried that this means that they're not going to address one of these three things in day one of the draft.

OL
DL
pass rusher

[BroadwayJoe10]

Can he do a swanton? Twist of Fate? No? Then I'm not interested in the Jets drafting him.

Seriously though, it would be interesting to see the Jets draft him. He's very.... very tall, but can someone tell me his vertical? However, this makes me worried that this means that they're not going to address one of these three things in day one of the draft.

OL
DL
pass rusher

I have no idea what a swanton is, nor interested to find out, but if he's bpa than i don't see the problem. We can address pass rusher or dline with our first and we still have 6 picks to shore up the other positions. We don't need to address oline with only our 2nd round pick, there are very solid players to have in the 3rd and lower. ALthough, if oline is bpa at our high 2nd than by all means, but i don't want to give up the opportunity for a great player (who can be anyone not just hardy) just because he isn't oline or dline. Once a week or so goes by and free agency starts, I'm sure we'll be able to tell what direction we'll be going in.

[thetedginnshow]

"Swanton" and "Twist of Fate" are in reference to Jeff Hardy, a wrestler.

In any case, if we get Gholston, I'm not sure I terribly care all too much about how the rest of the draft goes. Yeah, we all have our perfect scenario, but with Gholston, I'm already pretty content with the draft. Granted, I view Hardy as the best WR in the class and, if given a real QB, would have put up ridiculous numbers at Indiana. If he adds on about ten lbs. he could be a monster, IMO. I view him very highly though, so I don't know. I definitely wouldn't have a problem with it, but I wouldn't be terribly pleased if someone such as Cherilus was on the board at the time (unless he developed into a Pro-Bowler).

[BroadwayJoe10]

As i'm sure we've all heard the rumors that the jets are allowing vilma to shop himself, the recent news that marinelli is "interested" in Vilma and the jets are among the teams interested in Rogers. Well, I just found something else extremely interesting, which could tie it all together.

per Draft Daddy:

N.F.L. Combine News/Rumor Mill, Directly From Indy [Part Six B]:
"Additionally, there were some rumors in Indy about Jacksonville and the New York Jets talking about a Dwayne Robertson for Mike Peterson swap."



If the jets have any interest at all in shopping Drob than they must either be going after Rogers hard or be extremely secure with Pouha and Mosley as our starters. As much as i like both Pouha and MOsley and beleive they made some strides last year, i don't think they are satisfied with those two as the starters. I also do not like a straight up peterson for drob swap, but if we are going to get rogers, than trading drob frees up a whole lot of cap space. These are all just rumors, but it seems like something might happen considering our team has been named in many many rumors. I'm not saying anything is a sure thing, but it seems like we could be instore for an interesting offseason.

[thetedginnshow]

Mike Peterson? That seems like sort of an odd one. I'm not sure we necessarily win there unless he would work in our 3-4. If we were to rid ourselves of Vilma though, with his talent, if he were to come back healthy, Peterson could be a solid veteran addition. But in any case...

http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_encroachment/97/20080204/forecasting_offseason_moves/

Will the Shaun Rogers for Jonathan Vilma deal really go down?

I have it on reliable sources that this deal very nearly happened last summer, but Lions' management didn’t want to give up on Rogers just yet. They’re more than ready now, and Vilma finds himself in the same status with the Jets. This deal makes far too much sense on all sides for it to actually happen; both Rogers and Vilma are highly talented young players misfit with their current teams and schemes, with acrimony and questions about injuries and dedication floating around them. The Jets desperately need Rogers’ active bulk to anchor their 3-4 DL while the Lions sorely need Vilma’s quickness and ability to operate in space in their LB corps. I put the odds on this particular deal at about 30% although it is a certainty neither Rogers nor Vilma will be back in their former locker rooms in 2008.

As they said, it makes too much sense not to happen. I feel like at this point, we should be getting something along with Rogers to even it out, but I'll take him regardless.

[Crickett]

Mike Peterson? That seems like sort of an odd one. I'm not sure we necessarily win there unless he would work in our 3-4. If we were to rid ourselves of Vilma though, with his talent, if he were to come back healthy, Peterson could be a solid veteran addition. But in any case...

It's seems more like sort of an odd one for the Jacksonville, considering that the strength of their defense is defensive tackle and DeWayne Robertson is making a bajillion dollars.

As they said, it makes too much sense not to happen.

Which is why it won't.

[thetedginnshow]

It's seems more like sort of an odd one for the Jacksonville, considering that the strength of their defense is defensive tackle and DeWayne Robertson is making a bajillion dollars.

I didn't think of it from their end, but that's sort of true. Granted, he's several years younger than them and could potentially be a much better player in the 4-3 that I could see them seeing something in. Stroud and/or Henderson are getting up there and are hurt so often that it's rare seeing them both on the field and at full strength. And, it could give them the option of trading one, maybe running some of the 5-2, or at the very least having another DT to sub in so as to keep those guys going longer. I'm sure Del Rio sees the D-Line as the most important aspect of that defense and he probably wants to bolster it, seeing linebacker as more of an expendable position. Who knows. I wouldn't rule it out though.

Which is why it won't.

Blasphemy. Millen needs radical changes and the new-age Jets FO are doing big things. It HAS to happen!

[BroadwayJoe10]

It does make far too much sense and we are both fairly snake bitten franchises, so it seems like it won't happen.

As for jax; i read, i beleive on draft daddy but not sure, that stroud was on the outs and could be shopped or something along those lines. So if that is true, than it makes some sense.

I'm not exactly sure how well peterson would fit as an ILB, but he has missed most of the last two seasons with injuries so he doesn't have the same wear and tear as most 31 year old lbs. The best thing about a drob trade would be getting rid of his enormous bloated contract.

[rascal]

So the Jets are shopping Robertson...interesting. I'd rather have him than Rogers personally. What are your opinions of him being in a 4-3 scheme?

[hcbrad08]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080223/SPORTS0101/802230423/1004

in the article marianelli calls vilma one heck of a player and it seems like theres a chance he goes to the lions. My question is that after reading about the Jets interest in NT Rubin, if they trade Vilma for a pick or for NT Rogers. I don't know what will happen but I can only see good things from getting another pick or by addressing one of our needs with one of the best players in the league. Expect big things to happen after the FEB 29th FA startup point. The Jets will probably be active with one FA and then deal Vilma to set up a clear list of needs for the draft.

Oh BTW: The Jets told Vilma he could seek a trade with 30 teams the one team missing from that list. THE NE PATRIOTS. I love the bitterness between these two franchises.

Also rumors are stirring (according to an article yesterday in the NY DAILY NEWS) that the Patriots brought in the Jacksonville Jaguars coach Dom Capers...Capers was a leading candidate before Belichick was hired and was said to have developed a repor with Bob Kraft. The rumors surfacing is that Capers was brought in as an assistant/ emergency head coach should Belichick be suspended for a long period of time for future evidence that comes out about spygate. Personally that seems too good to be true but is welcomed news/rumor.

[Crickett]

So the Jets are shopping Robertson...interesting. I'd rather have him than Rogers personally. What are your opinions of him being in a 4-3 scheme?

He didn't have a choice in that matter. I think Rogers can succeed in the 3-4. He has the size, he has the strength and while there are concerns with his physical conditioning and laziness, the same was true about Ted Washington circa his time with the Chicago Bears.