New York Jets Discussion

[Crickett]

I'll say this. The Jets did not look too good against the Bengals. Yeah, they won, but the Bengals played horribly.

But it doesn't matter. Not yet. All that matters is winning right now. If we get to week 12 and the Jets are still eeking out close wins against bad teams, its time to worry. But for now, they just need to get enough wins to go to the post season and a win is a win is a win. Just ask the Giants circa midseason 2007.

[josh07039]

They didn't play consistently wel om either side of the ball over the course of the game. There were times when they were running effectively and then nothing. On D there were times when they looked great but then looked clueless. Im gonna take the win and hope the team keeps improving.

[oldLibid21]

How come the Jets always wear those ugly-ass uniforms?

[AlexDown]

Awful, just awful.

[JETS5128]

Favre looked terrible today, recievers didn't help him much either

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Demoralizing loss. The pass game was atrocious. I liked what i saw from the run game, it got a number of solid gains. Washington's TD run was nice, good to see him pound it in there. But boy was that pass offense bad. We didn't get very good pressure on the QB, and a weak WR core had its first solid game against our DBs. Overall this game was just bad all-around. I thought we might pull out the ugly win, but it didn't happen. Needed a game-changing play from someone. The only one in the game really was the fumbled punt by Washington. Just wasn't good..

[illmatic74]

Frarve was pitiful. He dinked and dunked worse than Pennington.

[diabsoule]

What are you guys thoughts on Justin Miller?

[josh07039]

What are you guys thoughts on Justin Miller?Staying on the field for any amount of time would be nice. He's a good athlete but its hard to know how much his skills have developed considering he hasn't been on the field too much.

[AlexDown]

I seriously want to know what kind of contract offer he is going to get at the end of the year. I really can't tell with this guy at all. He really looked bad as CB earlier in his career and most of the media in NY were saying he would just have to serve as a return man (made pro bowl as one).

In contract year, I seriously can't think of any contributions he has this year. I always wonder what could have been with him, not that I am saying he still can't have a great career, I just don't see him doing anything with the Jets.

[josh07039]

I seriously want to know what kind of contract offer he is going to get at the end of the year. I really can't tell with this guy at all. He really looked bad as CB earlier in his career and most of the media in NY were saying he would just have to serve as a return man (made pro bowl as one).

In contract year, I seriously can't think of any contributions he has this year. I always wonder what could have been with him, not that I am saying he still can't have a great career, I just don't see him doing anything with the Jets.They are really thin at corner so he probably will be given every opportunity to succeed at corner.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

What are you guys thoughts on Justin Miller?

I have no thoughts, as he's never around to evaluate. He appears to be a bandaid. I had high hopes for him coming out. Solidly built athlete with good speed? Sounds good. But he's always injured, so his contributions have been minimal. I like him as a returner, but he is far from proven as a CB. I'd like to see what he has to offer, who knows if we'll get the chance though. I wouldn't want to offer a very big contract given how little he actually sees the field, it would be paying someone to sit on IR.

[AlexDown]

I have no thoughts, as he's never around to evaluate. He appears to be a bandaid. I had high hopes for him coming out. Solidly built athlete with good speed? Sounds good. But he's always injured, so his contributions have been minimal. I like him as a returner, but he is far from proven as a CB. I'd like to see what he has to offer, who knows if we'll get the chance though. I wouldn't want to offer a very big contract given how little he actually sees the field, it would be paying someone to sit on IR.

You seriously have to wonder how much of his talent as a return man came from the Jets ST coaching, considering Leon Washington did the same thing next year when Miller went down. Or maybe they are just both really good....

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Ya, but i'm not willing to pull the Devin Hester and pay a guy based on 'hope' that he can play another position effectively. Can't really compare the two players, since Hester is superior, and Miller is a bandaid, but you get the point.

[josh07039]

Ya, but i'm not willing to pull the Devin Hester and pay a guy based on 'hope' that he can play another position effectively. Can't really compare the two players, since Hester is superior, and Miller is a bandaid, but you get the point.
Miller isn't going to be able to get a big contract from anyone. I see no reason why the jets don't try to keep him around for a reasonable price to see if he can live up to his athletic potential.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

big is a relative word. i didn't mean a contract at the amount of Hester.

[josh07039]

big is a relative word. i didn't mean a contract at the amount of Hester.
I didn't think you did. I meant big for miller. I don't think many teams will take a chance on a good return man from a few years ago with many injuries and no history actually playing corner. Basically, I can't see another team really giving him much money so the Jets shouldn't let him go just out of spite because he hasn't hit his potential. However, teams have done dumb crap in the past, so, who knows?

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I'm going to wait and see what he does the rest of the season before i throw anything at him. As far as i'm concerned, he's done nothing to warrant an offer.....i like him, but he hasn't. Washington fills the void nicely and is a great team guy, why not just keep his involvement up? I like Miller and think he can contribute, but that is all off of athletic ability really, since he hasn't done anything to this point for us. Not good when the thing i remember about a guy is a few bad penalties.....

[josh07039]

I'm going to wait and see what he does the rest of the season before i throw anything at him. As far as i'm concerned, he's done nothing to warrant an offer.....i like him, but he hasn't. Washington fills the void nicely and is a great team guy, why not just keep his involvement up? I like Miller and think he can contribute, but that is all off of athletic ability really, since he hasn't done anything to this point for us. Not good when the thing i remember about a guy is a few bad penalties.....
He obviously hasn't earned anything with his play because he hasn't played. But he is still an intriguing player with regards to his athleticism. If he can play in a limited role for a portion of the season, he may be able to prove that he he still has some talent that the team can develop. Even if he doesn't see the field for any substantial amount of time, I still say we give him a shot because as I mentioned earlier, there is no way he will command any substantial money or years and he has to be familiar with our defense more than a rookie. Why not take a risk on the guy and see if we can cash in on his prodigious athleticism. I mean after all, he has ideal size, is a good hitter, is really fast, and is still young. A 24 year old with this physical ability is not someone you give up on.

Obviously this is all contingent on another team not offering him stupid money.

[bored of education]

you guys got lucky! :)

[T-RICH49]

you guys got lucky! :)


yeah your gift to the officials better be a good one

[TimD]

wow. well lets not give leon the ball more. when he gets it he's nasty but no no no we only give him the ball 3 times... they need to give him more chances

[JETS5128]

one of the least satisfying wins i have ever experienced

[Splat]

Good game.

[AlexDown]

Good game.

It was the Bowe show today.

[vidae]

It was the Bowe show today.

Did you see that Chiefs passing stat? He had 34 receptions and the next closest WR had 5? Man, we need another WR.

That was kind of an aside.. great game. :)

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I agree, although we won, that is about as unsatisfying a victory as i have tasted. If those are the type of games we are going to play, we don't deserve anything. Props to the Chiefs for playing a great game. Boo to Favre who threw some inexcusable passes, just throwing them for grabs. He was atrocious. I almost wish Johnson had picked that and taken it to the house. Not actually, but that is how annoyed i was during that game. He was utter garbage. He saved his own ass by winning the game in the end.

What is with the coaching staff? Why in the world did they overthink the game and hardly run the ball? Some sort of reverse thinking? Again, just terrible. Anyone notice Washington was a weapon out there? Why not get him some more touches. Everytime he touched it he was electic. The screen, the run, the returns, the man was outstanding, but no, lets limit his touches, we don't want to win or anything. The guy can play, give him the ball, i don't think 15 touches is going to wear him out. Get him in space, screens, tosses, whatever, just get him the ball and see if he can keep with the magic.

Ugh, just terrible.
Props to good participation by Chief fans, all the best the rest of the way.

[bigbluedefense]

Maaaan. I was a big fan of Gholston going to the Jets. I thought he was the perfect fit.


.....ouch.


I never seen a lazier player in my life.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Maaaan. I was a big fan of Gholston going to the Jets. I thought he was the perfect fit.


.....ouch.


I never seen a lazier player in my life.

I wasn't super pumped over him, but i too was expecting a whole lot more. I figured he would be a stiff bull rush type guy without enough agility and little pass coverage, but who could at least push the pocket. Thus far he has far from underperformed even my modest expectations. Lazy, lazy, lazy. I can't believe it. There is learning a new position and taking time to adjust, and then there is just straight up a lack of effort.

I don't even want to talk about him.....i'm just going to stop.

[juiceman32]

I liked him leading up to the draft then I started to have some doubts and now I am cursing that pick. We gave him a huge contract and he has done absolutely nothing. Gholston hasn't even showed a flash of being a semi-decent player so far and it is frustrating the sh*t outta me. At least Pace is continuing to be a beast, Thomas has performed better than I expected, and Jenkins is a god.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

The excessive contract is typical of all high draft picks, you know that going in, and is basically another punishment of finishing so poorly. On one hand you get what appears to be an extremely talented player, but on the other hand you have to shell out a rediculous amount of money to someone who has proven nothing and may cripple your cap down the line. We came on the wrong end of this one. I say that based on not just ability, as he can turn it around still, but the appeared lack of effort, which makes me think things will stay this way. I just want to see some hustle, and i don't, that is why i'm demoralized.

Any thoughts on what i percieve to be terrible coaching last game?

[MJK]

Brett Favre and Vernon Gholston:

Two horrible decisions which will probably hurt our franchise long term.

*sigh*

[MJK]

As for coaching, it was absolutely horrible.

Offensively, blatantly obvious that the play calling sucked. Let's rush Leon twice, watch him get 62 yards and a TD, and then not give him another carry. Wait, no, he got one more carry. So 3 carries for 67 yards. That's not the kind of thing you would want to expand on. He also only had 3 receptions. I mean, Leon is definitely not a 20 touch guy, but he should be getting AT LEAST 10, especially in a game with that bad of a rush defense (seeing as they can't tackle, and Leon's specialty just happens to be making people miss). Jones got 14 carries, should have had around 20.

Defensively, there were at least 3 times Lowery was matched up in single coverage against Bowe, where Bowe flat out beat him. Now, I love Lowery, but seriously? KC has ONE wide receiver, and if you're not going to double him, at least have Revis covering him. I understand that with zone it's not going to always work, but then they should always have the double coverage rotated to Bowe's side (and for sure two of the times he was beat it was simply Lowery on Bowe in man, I'm sure of it).

Our gameplan sucked, but we managed to squeak out a win.

Favre also sucks.

That is all.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Glad someone else see's the same thing as me...

[josh07039]

A couple points.
1. Still not enough touches for Leon, so ridiculous. He should be our Reggie Bush, he just doesn't get the ball.
2. I gotta believe that Favre is hurting more than he lets on. He has taken so many hits and some of his throws are just absurd.
3.Defensively we need to get more aggressive. The last few years, with less talent, once we got a better pass rush our defense has greatly improved. For some reason, now that we have better personnel for it, we aren't taking risks.
4. Everyone needs to chill on Gholston. Let's see what happens. It is so early to call him a bust. We all knew that he is a good athlete and really raw.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

4. Everyone needs to chill on Gholston. Let's see what happens. It is so early to call him a bust. We all knew that he is a good athlete and really raw.

Effort, effort, effort. Or lack there of....that is my main beef. I understand difficulties, but he has to increase his effort level to get any kind of respect from me...he seems passive and no sense of urgency.

[MJK]

Exactly. I just don't see any fire to play the game... at all. Football is heart, not talent. To be a great player you have to have the DESIRE to be great. Gholston has the desire to get paid, which means he'll always just do enough to get a contract. Which is why I don't think he'll ever be a premiere player in this league.

[gsorace]

Jets sign Marcus Mason

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/jets/archives/2008/10/jets_sign_a_run.html

[josh07039]

Exactly. I just don't see any fire to play the game... at all. Football is heart, not talent. To be a great player you have to have the DESIRE to be great. Gholston has the desire to get paid, which means he'll always just do enough to get a contract. Which is why I don't think he'll ever be a premiere player in this league.
How do you know he doesn't have desire? He may be working his ass off in practice and in the classrooms. I'm not saying that he is, but you can't say the guy lacks desire unless you have something tangible to back it up.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

How do you know he doesn't have desire? He may be working his ass off in practice and in the classrooms. I'm not saying that he is, but you can't say the guy lacks desire unless you have something tangible to back it up.

i see where you are coming from, but that doesn't make sense. If he was busting ass and doing those things he would be on the field more. And if he was busting ass in those things, he would bust ass on the field to continue to play. It all comes down to on the field production. He must not be doing those things because he's not on the field. OR he is doing those things, and for some reason decides not to do them on the field.....which wouldn't make sense.

No one is saying he's out of position this, or he just isn't seeing the field so he is doing below expectation, its that he isn't seeing the field because when he's on it he is a clear liability who if watched (which he is being the first round pick and many people focus on him) is not appearing as someone putting it all on the line every play. His effort is lackluster, and that is being VERY generous. Enough people have spelled it out, it isn't made up.

Is he a bust? No, because you can't conclude that yet, and it can't be determined for another 2 years, particularly because he's in a position change. However, you CAN assess a players performance as they go, and it has been, to be blunt, bad. No if ands or buts. It has been bad. He CAN turn it around, no doubt, i'm not writing him off. BUT he has to show more effort. Generally, if a guy doesn't look to be putting it all out there, he probably isn't. There are a few exceptions, but those players are only determined to be that way when they actually produce. He hasn't done that, not even close, and therefore doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. I as much as anyone hope that he makes it, but he's got to show somehting soon. Check the stats, check the FILM, check the number of plays he sees the field, it isn't a fluke, they all add up to him not performing.

Bust? No. Disappointing? Extremely. Hope still remains, but he's not the same type of athlete as Woodley, at least not in my eyes, he's to stiff and beefed up. Find a niche and stickl to it. That part may have something to do with the coaching staff, i will admit that, as i am not 100% sold on them either.

[MJK]

How do you know he doesn't have desire? He may be working his ass off in practice and in the classrooms. I'm not saying that he is, but you can't say the guy lacks desire unless you have something tangible to back it up.

Watching him play is tangible enough evidence. He just doesn't seem to finish plays, doesn't seem to care.

I don't see how you can watch Gholston play and disagree with the fact that he's a lazy player.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Watching him play is tangible enough evidence. He just doesn't seem to finish plays, doesn't seem to care.

I don't see how you can watch Gholston play and disagree with the fact that he's a lazy player.

he's so rarely on the field (due to the lack of desire and effort he shows to make plays when he's on it) that i can understand if he just hasn't seen him on the field to watch....

[josh07039]

he's so rarely on the field (due to the lack of desire and effort he shows to make plays when he's on it) that i can understand if he just hasn't seen him on the field to watch....Partially It is because I really haven't seen him play much except for a few plays here and there. So because of my lack of sample size I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I have no evidence I'm just speculating. Perhaps it appears like he isn't trying to finish off plays and really he just isn't good enough yet. He doesn't have enough moves to get by lineman and he doesn't know how to cover. Obviously the guy needs to learn how to be an nfl player considering he could just bull rush or blow by everybody in college. Perhaps he doesn't have the desire. It was an issue people discussed in the draft process.

[hcbrad08]

The coaching is terrible...Mangini and Schottenheimer should be fired!
The play calling is awful and the gameplanning is worst

The run game is so inconsistent because the team has no identity

Gholston also doesnt get snaps bc of how far behind he was bc of OSUs trimesters...give him time but i am undoubtedly dissapointed just not calling him a bust bc he doesnt get the snaps another 1st rder gets

I'm more dissapointd in Keller a 1st rounder and he can't catch simple slants!
Sure hes caught TD passes but he can't change the offense and is a dissapointment.

I want Bill Cowher or Brian Billick to come in next season bc this team is not well coached at all. Mangini can do a lot with a little but can't properly use his assests. At least Billick and Cowher both give their teams running smash mouth identities and he allows emotion in the equation. Mangini supresses fire in the locker room and on the field with his 5 second rule which is good when yorue down but you need to get pumped when you play well to get on a streak and be an elite team.

NEEDS:
1)DE
2)RT
3)SS
4)WR
5)DT-to help Jenkins
6)ILB-to help Barton

FAVORITES:
1)Tyson Jackson
2)Phil Loadholt
3)Chip Vaughn
4)Tiquan Underwood
5)BJ Raji
6)Josh Maugua


watching the game: REALLY?!?!?!?!?! A TOSS ON 2nd and 2 TERRIBLE!!!!

[hcbrad08]

THEY SHOULD BE FIRED...A 1 YARD PASS ON 3rd AND 12?

PHIL SIMMS: yea great call take the 3....
UNLESS YOU MISS IT

ANOTHER REASON THE CALL SUCKED BC IT PUT IT ON THE WIDE RIGHT HASH AND HE HAD TO KICK IT LEFT TO MAKE IT AND IT WAS A PULL....

MANGINI, SCHOTTENHEIMER SHOULD BE FIRED...forget the relationship Mangini has with Tannenbaum...Woody needs to step in and tell him either fire Mangini or turn in your papers! The playcalling is awful and unoriginal...1st down... designed screen? when the opposite side was wide open...2nd down run from shotgun when downhill TJ running was working...3rd as you saw above AWFUL...

SCHOTTENHEIMER AND MANGINI THINK THEY ARE SMARTER THAN THEY REALLY ARE!!

[TimD]

ugh feeley strikes again....

[AlexDown]

I can't believe they didn't take that 4th down before.

[TimD]

oh man come on barrett you have to catch that

[AlexDown]

Revis is the man!

Buffalo's D is crazy fast. That was a huge win, against a very good team.

[gsorace]

Kris Jenkins is a monster

[MJK]

Where's Chad? :(

[TimD]

Kris Jenkins stood out this game, and Revis made a brilliant play at the end to seal the victory. very nice to be sitting 5-3

[Sniper]

You guys know who's good? David Harris.

[MJK]

Possibly good Gholston news?!?!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8748640/Glazer:-Gholston-looks-to-LT-for-help

ANYTHING that shows he cares is great news to me.

[josh07039]

Possibly good Gholston news?!?!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8748640/Glazer:-Gholston-looks-to-LT-for-help

ANYTHING that shows he cares is great news to me.
Could my baseless skepticism over his alleged lack of desire be proving true?

[Crickett]

Question: How many game ending in the endzone interceptions has Darrelle Revis had this year? I know it is at least 2, probably 3.

[josh07039]

Question: How many game ending in the endzone interceptions has Darrelle Revis had this year? I know it is at least 2, probably 3.The real question is what deity impregnated his mother to result in his virgin birth?

[derza222]

Question: How many game ending in the endzone interceptions has Darrelle Revis had this year? I know it is at least 2, probably 3.

I believe it's 3. Miami, Arizona, and now Buffalo. He certainly is quite the stud muffin at corner.

Interesting that Lowery got benched towards the end of last week's game, I think teams know he's beatable and don't want to mess with Revis so they just pick on him, which probably makes him look worse than he actually is. Still, it makes who our starter across Revis down the road will be a bit more of a question than it was earlier in the season.

[josh07039]

I have a lot of theories about Brett Favre's poor play, I'm wondering which one people think is the most realistic or if it may be a combination of a few.

1.Favre is just getting old and he is going to be inconsistent. After all, he did just have one amazing game that really inflated his stats

2.The hits he took the last few weeks has him hurt more than he is letting on and it is affecting his play.

3.The poor o-line play just isn't giving him enough time and he keeps getting hit while he throws.(This applies to a few of his ints but i dont think this is the main cause)

4. He still isn't fully in synch with his receivers.

5. The coaches are forcing him into an offense that he isn't familiar with. Perhaps a bit too conservative?

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Possibly good Gholston news?!?!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8748640/Glazer:-Gholston-looks-to-LT-for-help

ANYTHING that shows he cares is great news to me.

That is news i like to see. I'm hoping for the best. Initiative baby. I like the first lesson: 'Even if you are going to screw up, screw up going 100%' That is exactly what i've said i want to see!

[josh07039]

That is news i like to see. I'm hoping for the best. Initiative baby. I like the first lesson: 'Even if you are going to screw up, screw up going 100%' That is exactly what i've said i want to see!
I agree. Whenever you hear a guy come into the 3-4 they always sound tentative and talk about how much more thinking is involved. I think guys struggling not to make mistakes rather than working to make plays is a problem. LT's point is a good one that a mistake you make when trying to make a play and going all out is much better than a mistake made when trying to avoid screwing up.

[The Legend]

If Tim Tebow is there do you want him?

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I certainly don't, but i'm personally not a fan....

[derza222]

I'm with TGJV on this one. Not opposed to a QB if it's the right guy but I don't like Tebow.

[AlexDown]

Not a fan of Tebow either.

[hcbrad08]

Im opposed to drafting a QB for these reasons:
A)Clemens
B)Ratliff
C)Ainge

I know their all young, but realistically if the Jets are going to be competetive next year they're going to have to throw some money at Favre and then give the reigns over to Clemens or Ratliff

Clemens showed great ability to run a 2 minute offense, but struggled seemingly because of poor offensive line play.Another year learning and getting used to things could prove valuable.

Ratliff showed me a lot in the preseason (which is just that preseason) but he made Clowney look really good and lead the league in passing for those 4 games (he kept Ainge on the sideline). Clowney has been injured though which has limited his playing time, but he's been listed as probable the past few games and hasn't played so imagine if Ratliff played with #1's. I think he made some dumb mistakes but some great plays (sound like anyone to you?)

Ainge showed absolutely nothing except being a big pocket passer who is stable enough to make reads but not one who can function with any pressure. That said it is rare that teams draft QBs two years in a row especially with other young QBs. The last thing we need is a high risk/profile Bust at QB...

Let's work with what we have I think Favre will play next season mainly because I think the potential on the team has peaked his curiosity and LC might guilt trip him into coming back.

Additionally, we have a lot of minor needs that could use addressing
3-4 DE, Ellis is playing well, but he and COleman are old and having a rotation would be good for everyone. (Tyson Jackson comes to mind). We need a backup NT with size because Pouha is just not a 34 NT he gets run on too much and can barely get by one blocker let a lone command two. That along with two older DEs doesn't help on the downs he is in (pass rushing 3rd downs when Jenkins is winded) (BJ Raji in the 2nd or 3rd)

I think S is worth addressing in the 2nd or 3rd to compliment Rhodes...Elam and Smith are both ok but not good enough to make teams stop throwing the under route over the middle. Upgrade is definitely a possibility

ILB also bears investment...David Bowens is not the answer for a backup ILB he's ok but Bartion and Bowens are both over 30 and if Harris is out (like he is now) we realize how valuable the position becomes...I would love to get younger, but that said I love Barton's physicality and how he compliments Harris...If Gholston shows strides towards the end of the season don't be surprised to see him or Pace move inside some plays to get the best pass rushing package on the field aka Harris Pace Gholston and Thomas (again if he progresses)...Also if we add another big NT next season we could run a similar package to the Pats 2-5...In my little ideal world...Jenkins, Raji, Thomas, Barton, Harris, Pace, Gholston. That could potentially be a freakishly strong and deceptive STRONG NICKLE package that could attack or stunt from unknown angles or stay back while still applying pressure.

On the offensive side of the ball we should address RT...This could come early and if we address it I hope it does. I would like a Phil Loadholt in the second. I think Woody is a stop gap I don't think he has merited a renewed contract but we'll see down the stretch...RT on the line is most pressing but a backup guard comes to mind as well.

I think the Jets have had some success scouting RBs in the draft...Leon...Ward (Giants) scouted well and loved him but the Giants had a spot and swooped him off the Practice squad...I think a later round back (4th or 5th) who could succeed TJ in a couple of years would be a good pickup. That late would be a good investment for the future and to spell both leon and TJ down the stretch of the season...Jesse Chatman is not the answer for that role, but I do think we need an effective 3rd back on the roster.

Other than those positions:
QB: Addressed above
RB: Addressed right here
FB: I see a potential hole at FB if Richardson leaves (but I would love to see him re-signed), FA can help there if needed
WR: Too many to choose from (LC, JC, Brad Smith, Stuckey, Clowney, Wright)
TE: Baker might be back, but look for Keller and Franks to be the tandem next season
OT: Brick is doing ok this season, but RT addressed above
OG: Faneca is under performing for his contract and Moore is playing ok, but a backup like I said could be a good addition late
C: Solid

DE: Addressed above
NT: Addressed above
OLB: Stacked...if Gholston comes around GODLY...I love Thomas and Pace (although they are spotty with sacks they are constant with pressure and push) and Murrel hasn't played terribly either, especially on special teams
ILB: Addressed above
CB: Revis is a stud, Lowery seems above average, but is thrown at so much plays are bound to be given up...like the way he plays the run. Miller hopefully will play again one day, Poteat and Coleman are adaptable and haven't heard much from Barret except that TD from the SD game so yea he's having a great year like a Long Snapper bc he's not being talked about
FS: STUD
SS: Addressed above

K: OK not problem enough to draft
P: Perhaps a FA or 7th rounder (no one stands out) but Hodges has been great holding and sometimes with his punts

LS: Dearth you rock my world...

Coaching: Can we draft Brain Billick to be our O.C.? or Bill Cowher to be our H.C.

Im getting sick of the style Mangini and Schottenheimer use and I want more consistent plays and mentality as opposed to stretching the offense thin in order to adapt week by week for opponents...sometimes teams are just not as good as yours and you can play your game and they wont beat you regardless of their strengths...You game plan for teams who merit gameplanning, like divisional rivals who know your team or elite teams, not the Raiders...when you try to gameplan specifically for the raiders instead of saying let's play JETS football (whatever that means...which is a problem) you outthink yourself as a coach and don't win a game youre supposed to.

Overall I like the players on our team, not the direction the coached want to take thier skills (Not Favre though, we need to calm down the INTs aka give more touches to TJ whos ripping it up and to Leon who has always deserved more touches)

PS to Leon Washington if you ever read this, that was ABSOLUTELY the most heads up special teams play I've EVER seen in a football game when you stepped out of bounds for that Bills Kickoff. Touchez sir...

Thoughts?

[AlexDown]

hcbrad08 that is a nice write up. When I have time I'd like to actually make some comments about it

Outstanding play by our defense today.

Next week is a BIG game, considering we are tied in the AFC East and that we play the Titans the week after.

[JETS5128]

hcbrad08 that is a nice write up. When I have time I'd like to actually make some comments about it

Outstanding play by our defense today.

Next week is a BIG game, considering we are tied in the AFC East and that we play the Titans the week after.

I love the fact that we have the NE game on thurs, when we're finally hitting our stride, then we have the mini bye before the TEN game. Fortunate scheduling

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Nice to see Rhodes' stats start to come through, he's made some real nice plays on the ball when he's been given a chance, which from what i've seen, hasn't been all that often. He's appeared to soften in run support, not wanting to get dirty, but his coverage skills have looked very solid. Is it me or has his role changed a fair bit over the years.

Elam has made a few game changing plays the last 2 weeks. The sack FF agains the Rams in the end didn't relaly make a huge difference in the outcome, but it came when things were at least still interesting. That along with his INT/TD against Buffalo, and he's looking pretty solid out there. I'll take those types of plays from a 'role' guy anyday. Hope he keeps this up.

[ams]

It's just you....no offense.

I don't think I've ever seen Rhodes play this well. I think he's getting better if anything. I disagree with the run support comment as well, I've seen a number of occasions were he has made big tackles from behind the line or where he's pushed the pile to help stuff the run. Check the stats to see how many tackled he has for a loss....I'd be curious to find out that. But yea, I think Rhodes has been pronominal. Perhaps he's not blitzing AS much as he used to, but I think he's still been equally effective. Plus, we have the third best pass rush and the 5th best run defense in the NFL, so we don't necessarily need him to do that stuff right now, we have something like the 17th best pass defense. And I think he's done his part in coverage, more than done his part actually. A few big plays come to mind, for instance the interception Poteat had in the endzone last game was because Rhodes tipped the ball to Poteat.

I think we need to find a shutdown corner opposite Revis though. Lowery has more than held his own this year, but he's not starting material..yet at least. He's made some tremendous plays, absolutely, but he's blown coverage and made some dumb penalties as well. I'd prefer him as a nickel. We also need an LB who can cover the middle of the field. Maybe it's because we lost Harris recently, but I think our LB's are doing a pretty poor job in coverage.

Is Elam good or not? I can't tell if safety is a position we need to draft or not, I mean I feel like part of the reason our pass defense is not great is because of him....because it's clearly not because of our pass rush, Rhodes, or Revis, but I've only sen good plays from Elam, so where is it going wrong? Why is our pass defense not great?

[JETS5128]

It's just you....no offense.

I don't think I've ever seen Rhodes play this well. I think he's getting better if anything. I disagree with the run support comment as well, I've seen a number of occasions were he has made big tackles from behind the line or where he's pushed the pile to help stuff the run. Check the stats to see how many tackled he has for a loss....I'd be curious to find out that. But yea, I think Rhodes has been pronominal. Perhaps he's not blitzing AS much as he used to, but I think he's still been equally effective. Plus, we have the third best pass rush and the 5th best run defense in the NFL, so we don't necessarily need him to do that stuff right now, we have something like the 17th best pass defense. And I think he's done his part in coverage, more than done his part actually. A few big plays come to mind, for instance the interception Poteat had in the endzone last game was because Rhodes tipped the ball to Poteat.

I think we need to find a shutdown corner opposite Revis though. Lowery has more than held his own this year, but he's not starting material..yet at least. He's made some tremendous plays, absolutely, but he's blown coverage and made some dumb penalties as well. I'd prefer him as a nickel. We also need an LB who can cover the middle of the field. Maybe it's because we lost Harris recently, but I think our LB's are doing a pretty poor job in coverage.

Is Elam good or not? I can't tell if safety is a position we need to draft or not, I mean I feel like part of the reason our pass defense is not great is because of him....because it's clearly not because of our pass rush, Rhodes, or Revis, but I've only sen good plays from Elam, so where is it going wrong? Why is our pass defense not great?

On that note, we just signed Ty Law and he's expected to play Thurs

http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/11/10/jets-sign-cb-law/

Don't really know what to think. Surprised to say the least

[josh07039]

On that note, we just signed Ty Law and he's expected to play Thurs

http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/11/10/jets-sign-cb-law/

Don't really know what to think. Surprised to say the least
Not so sure he's the answer.

[AlexDown]

Anyone own a Ty Law jersey? Might be time to break that bad boy out one more time LOL.

[JETS5128]

Not so sure he's the answer.

Which is why i am perplexed by the signing...

[josh07039]

Which is why i am perplexed by the signing...
I was agreeing, but rather than being a goon and simply saying" I agree" I decided to use my own words to illustrate the same point and by doing that I thought that would portray my agreement.

[JETS5128]

I was agreeing, but rather than being a goon and simply saying" I agree" I decided to use my own words to illustrate the same point and by doing that I thought that would portray my agreement.

Ahhhh, makes sense

[hcbrad08]

We cut Justin Miller to do this don't be surprised if the Pats pick him up off of waivers bc of how bad their secondary is and bc they would stick it to the Jets at least on kickoffs with Miller and Hobbs.

Mangini said Miller was just an outside RCB and couldnt play nickle or move to safety to add to his value for the team. Now Law will play inside at nickle and dime he'll also play some safety. Apparently, Mangini thought Law could have some impact in this game.

-Barrett
-Poteat
-Coleman
-Law

All play both S and CB... I like it

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

It's just you....no offense.

I don't think I've ever seen Rhodes play this well. I think he's getting better if anything. I disagree with the run support comment as well, I've seen a number of occasions were he has made big tackles from behind the line or where he's pushed the pile to help stuff the run. Check the stats to see how many tackled he has for a loss....I'd be curious to find out that. But yea, I think Rhodes has been pronominal. Perhaps he's not blitzing AS much as he used to, but I think he's still been equally effective. Plus, we have the third best pass rush and the 5th best run defense in the NFL, so we don't necessarily need him to do that stuff right now, we have something like the 17th best pass defense. And I think he's done his part in coverage, more than done his part actually. A few big plays come to mind, for instance the interception Poteat had in the endzone last game was because Rhodes tipped the ball to Poteat.


I didn't by any means say that Rhodes has played poorly....far from it, i think he has done very well, but his role in the defense has changed. He is far more deep man coverage than i remember. As a result of that, his role in the run game has decreased, even though i agree, he has been efficient when playing the run. It isn't so much how he's played that i was referring to, it is how the defense is using him. Regardless, i'm happy with how he's done, but i do feel on the regular, he doesn't hit with the aggressiveness that he once did.

[TimD]

My post regarding Lawrence Maroney and the Jets.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1309678&postcount=25

What do you guys think?

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

i'd be down for it. My concern is that he seems to be injury prone....but when he is used to a sufficient degree he seems to be pretty effective. I like the way he runs, and i think he has talent. As usual, it depends on the required offer, but i think he would be a solid addition, and could be cheaper than a draft selection, get division rival info, and go somewhere else in the draft, if that is somewhere we are looking. Jones isn't getting younger, but isn't in need of an immediate replacement, but i guess it never hurts since Maroney has never been an actual feature back. I like Maroney, but i also hate him because he's a Patriot.....

[SubNoize]

so as a raiders fan i was just wondering if justin miller was worth signing. I think they picked him up as a nickel/dime back and as a return man, is he still a viable option as a returner or has he flamed out already and how are his man cover skills?

[AlexDown]

We cut him for Ty Law. Lets keep that in mind.

I wish I could give you more info, but I can't honestly remember the last time I saw him play. I only hear what everyone else hears.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

He has been injured the majority of the time. He was hard to get a read on as a DB because of that. Nice return guy, but the way Washington has excelled, who knows how special he is. He has physical ability, I liked him coming in, but like i said maybe 2 weeks ago when we were discussing him, it is tough to gauge because he's always hurt. He wasn't adding anything to the team....he is however, a typical Raider guy. Physical attributes and speed in the secondary...

[AlexDown]

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/1113/nfl_a_favre2_412.jpg

BIG WIN.

We needed this considering we play Tennessee next week.

[holt_bruce81]

Brad Smith needs to run the ball more for you guys, the man is electric.

[josh07039]

Even though they gave up a lead and did all they could to blow the game in the second half, the Jets stayed tough and won the game. They were able to drive down the field when they needed to and this could be a win that defines the identity of the team. Favre played well because we didn't ask him to do too much. We were able to combine the pass heavy/aggressive offense and the overly conservative offense we used against the bengals to create a balanced attack. The last two weeks have shown that Keller is a huge weapon that can help be a safety valve for Favre rather than having him force it into double and triple coverage.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I really like what i've seen from the offense, they have put up points, and appear to be reliable when it counts. However, i'm not impressed with the defensive play-calling in that last drive. It was basically, lets play to hopefully win in the end, or 'lets hope they run out of time'. You play to win the game, don't play like pansy's, what was that overly prevent defense crap. 3 man rush? The Watson TD was pathetic. Moss is shut down, but lets try something new on the last play. I know it was super close and an outstanding catch, but the opportunity presented itself because of the defense called.

Weak, that's all i can say.

Huge win though, i'm very happy, even if i don't show it here

[derza222]

I really like what i've seen from the offense, they have put up points, and appear to be reliable when it counts. However, i'm not impressed with the defensive play-calling in that last drive. It was basically, lets play to hopefully win in the end, or 'lets hope they run out of time'. You play to win the game, don't play like pansy's, what was that overly prevent defense crap. 3 man rush? The Watson TD was pathetic. Moss is shut down, but lets try something new on the last play. I know it was super close and an outstanding catch, but the opportunity presented itself because of the defense called.

Weak, that's all i can say.

Huge win though, i'm very happy, even if i don't show it here

The D really was absolutely awful, especially that last drive. Is it just me or did the level of intensity seem to come down a little bit after we went up 24-6? We kind of seemed content to let the game play itself out without being super aggressive offensively or defensively, and it almost cost us big time. It would've been nice to put 60 minutes of high-level football together.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

The D really was absolutely awful, especially that last drive. Is it just me or did the level of intensity seem to come down a little bit after we went up 24-6? We kind of seemed content to let the game play itself out without being super aggressive offensively or defensively, and it almost cost us big time. It would've been nice to put 60 minutes of high-level football together.

I agree. This wasn't the first game this year where we came out flat in the second half, after establishing solid leads in the first.....that needs to be corrected, both Arizona and NE gave us battles, and they shouldn't have been close.

[derza222]

I agree. This wasn't the first game this year where we came out flat in the second half, after establishing solid leads in the first.....that needs to be corrected, both Arizona and NE gave us battles, and they shouldn't have been close.

I don't really think the players are to blame though. The playcalling just looked to be uber-conservative. It's happened in a lot of games where we've taken a big lead, we start to call a really conservative game and then our opponents come back and we have to scrap for the win.

If you think about it we were even flat offensively in the second half against the Rams. Or the Dolphins game for example, where we were all over them for three quarters then stopped blitzing Pennington and needed the pick in the endzone from Revis to seal it. The Arizona game was just one where after the opposing team came back we had time to get aggressive again and really go after it and take the lead.

I just think the opposing coaching staff needs to get the memo that just because we have a big lead doesn't mean other teams are going to roll over and let us win. It's the NFL, if you aren't aggressive you can get snakebit. We need to keep our foot on the gas until the game is over, not just probably out of reach because we've dominated and have a big lead. If we keep letting opponents stay alive, we are going to get burned.

[AlexDown]

I'm wondering from my fellow Jets fans, how do the Jets rank, to you, amongst the other teams in the NFL?

My view is that they are a slightly above average team in the league, considering a few things.

The general AFC powerhouse teams have had slow starts and/or are struggling/suffering from injuries. Last couple of seasons, 10-6 wasn't even a guarantee to make playoffs in the AFC, but I'm less concerned about that now.

The Jets were able to split with NE, and take the first from both Miami and Buffalo. This is HUGE, considering how close the division is. Everyone in the AFC East, even with Buffalo's struggles recently, has been playing competitive football.

The reason I would hesitate to say anything more then slightly above average is the fact that the Jets, besides this last game, haven't really beaten a dominate team yet. Blown out against SD as well poor play against Oakland and KC still does concern me. I said at the start of the season that if the Jets wanted a shot at making playoffs, they have to take advantage of their easy schedule like they have every other previous year and win the games they "should".

It was great to win against NE, and this weeks game will really tell us a lot about where we stand. However, the Jets still can take advantage of their schedule, with the amount of winnable games they have left.

I'm not really using their 7-3 record to rate them either. The Jets are in a great position to make a run for the playoffs.

So, where do you guys rank them? Top 10 team in the NFL? Top 15? Do you see them as divisional winners, wild card, or missing playoffs?

[JETS5128]

Prior to the year, i thought that we just needed to survived the early struggles that were obviously going to come with all the new faces. I think we did that, and are obviously hitting our groove at a good time. I'm trying not to get too excited, but i really think that the sky is the limit this year. Right now we are a top 10 team, but we still have alot of improvements to make and we are just starting to form a real identity.

[derza222]

I'd say we're a fringe top 10 team, maybe in the 8-13 range. Should make the playoffs, hopefully as a division winner if we take care of business. One win that gets slightly underrated IMO is the victory over a very solid Arizona team. And all divisional wins are good ones in my eyes, this is a solid division and divisional games in the AFC East are always rough anyways. Because of the parity in the league right now I think we are capable of being competitive with every team in the league right now. We've good, and next week will do a lot in telling us where exactly we stand in the scheme of things. I do wish we would really put games away for good instead of let teams hang around with conservative playcalling, though. Just don't see that killer instinct that great teams have yet, but I'm not sure if that's the coaching staff or not.

[josh07039]

I think that if the coaching staff allowed the team, especially the defense, to stay aggressive throughout the game then we could beat anyone. We are a completely different team than the one that was blown out by SD at the beginning of the season. They really have gotten better with each game(minus a few exceptions). The biggest issue is the secondary. It always gets revealed when the coaching staff calls off the blitz and gets conservative. Lowery, Poteat, Law are all decent, but they are going to get abused without a big time pass rush.

Little Team Summary
Offense- It can be explosive in the air or pound it on the ground. Thomas Jones has been one of the most prolific backs in the league and Leon is a great weapon. If the attack is balanced then Favre makes fewer mistakes. He is still a great qb who can win games on his own, but he does much better with a strong running game(as is the case with all qbs). Our receiving group is one of the best in the league with the emergence of Keller. Last week it was clear that other people were open because he forced the pats to pay more attention to him.

Defense- Pressure is the key. Ellis, Bowens, Pace, etc. We need a lot of pressure on the qb. The corner opposite Revis will always be exploited. And whoever our safety opposite Rhodes is(Smith/Elam) can't cover. It might be smart to try Law/Barrett more at safety. The biggest thing for the D, as many have mentioned, is play calling and intensity.

Special Teams-Leon. Feely is really talented and has been clutch but can be inconsistent. Hodges is pretty average. Leon=God.

[hcbrad08]

To address a few posts randomly in bullet point form...

-The D in the 2nd half of the Pats game was playing PREVENT (That's bad coaching)

-Jets are a top 10 team (Should be 8-2, which is why theyre not a top 5)

-Great matchup position by position this sunday (it will be close)

[AlexDown]

-Jets are a top 10 team (Should be 8-2, which is why theyre not a top 5)



I'm not a fan of this argument, as I could also just as easily say they should be 4-6. (Lucky Favre toss up TD against Miami, which we won by six, close game against KC we could have just as easily lost, as well as saying we COULD have lost to NE).

Just because it was a close game, doesn't mean we should have won by any means.

[derza222]

Ainge suspended for steroids/related substances.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3718028

[josh07039]

Ainge suspended for steroids/related substances.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3718028
Just opening the door for Brett Ratliff a little more.

[SuperKevin]

That clipboard must be really heavy if Ainge needed to bulk up with steroids

[TitanHope]

Heys guys. Just wanted to wish ya'll luck tomorrow (*crosses fingers behind his back* :D ). I'm stoked about it!

[derza222]

Heys guys. Just wanted to wish ya'll luck tomorrow (*crosses fingers behind his back* :D ). I'm stoked about it!

Best of luck to you guys too. Hopefully it ends up being a good game, because I've got high hopes for it! Certainly will tell us a lot about what kind of a team the Jets actually are, especially with their extra time to prepare and rest. You guys are about as good a measuring stick as we could play after a big win against a divisional rival.

[CashmoneyDrew]

I don't know why Ainge would need to be on roids. He's already a pretty good sized guy with pretty good arm strength.

[Crickett]

I don't know why Ainge would need to be on roids. He's already a pretty good sized guy with pretty good arm strength.

Because he's the fourth string QB and had probably the weakest arm among them.

[CashmoneyDrew]

Because he's the fourth string QB and had probably the weakest arm among them.

True. But still, it just doesn't seem like it would fit his character from what I saw while he was at UT.

[TitanHope]

The Titans have forgotten their identity. Good game guys - ya'll fully deserved it. Good luck on the rest of the season. We'll just have to take our frustration out of the Lions...they're always good for that. :D

[AlexDown]

Good game. The Jets played well, I'm very impressed.

I feel bad for the Lions always having to play on Thanksgiving. They have always lost the last couple of years, and the season has already been determined by this point. Takes a lot to not be with your family and having to show up for a game at that time.

The Jets have really put themselves in a great scenario. We are the only team in the AFC East with the capability to go 5-1 in our division, and we get to play Seattle and San Francisco who have been struggling.

[derza222]

I was very impressed with the performance as well. For a little it looked like coaching was going to kill us again but we managed to pull it together and close out the game.

One thing that bears keeping in mind about our Seattle and San Fran games is, unless I'm wrong, they're both out on the west coast. Both of our games against opponents out west were losses to Oakland and San Diego. The flight and time change can cause problems, so while those are both very winnable games there are other factors that come into play and I hope we don't overlook the teams because we could certainly get upset.

[hcbrad08]

We have lost both games out west Maybe Mangini will go out west a day or two early but I think unlike the SD game where wwe werent gelling as an offense and Jenkins got hurt on defense or like the OAK game where our coaches took us out of our game by trying to outsmart the Raiders instead of playing our way...I want good prep for those games and some acknowledgement that they are playing on the west coast...rush defense has to be good we cant wear down out there

[Crickett]

I don't want to jinx it but omg, the Jets have a legit shot at the Superbowl. :eek: :eek: :eek:

['cuse-213]

I would do anything to lose our first round pick :)

[derza222]

I would do anything to lose our first round pick :)

...except using it to acquire Doug Jolley.

Seriously though, if we remain focused we will a tremendous football team. I'm not sure I can point to any team in the league right now and say that we would not have a very good chance of winning a game against them. It's a nice feeling for a change of pace, I'm so used to us having one fatal flaw that will kill us against the elite teams.

Speaking of change of pace, it's nice to be able to stop the run, rush the passer, run the ball, throw downfield...the Jets doing any of these used to be such a foreign concept it's awesome to have a team that has those capabilities.

[bigbluedefense]

if we meet in the SB (getting way ahead of ourselves), they should play it at Giants Stadium.

[AlexDown]

Not even thinking about it. Lets make playoffs. All the teams in the AFC East played really good football today.

Good to see Denver struggling yesterday also.

[josh07039]

Kris Jenkins should be the defensive mvp. He may be the single most important player in the league on either side of the ball. Even though we got some de/lb and we had guys get better, I think Jenkins alone has transformed our defense from above average to elite.

I think what really separates this team from other possible playoff teams is special teams. Our Return game is absolutley amazing. Feely has been really great. Hodges has been at least average. Over all, our special teams play has been a real asset. Look at the cardinals and you'll see how important special teams are.

[timewaster]

Kris Jenkins should be the defensive mvp.

Yup.

Favre could be in contention also. If he were to win i would like to and expect him to dedicate it to the entire team and front office. The genius's that they are proving to be.

Best offseason ever.

As for lately, DOMINATING TEAMS! I like this Jets team

[AlexDown]

The Jets were getting a lot of flack from people on this board about their off season signings, especially with regards to the amount of money spent. I know a lot of people were ragging on the Pace acquisition mostly, but even Faneca and Jenkins. So far so good.

I wasn't a huge supporter of the Favre acquisition either, but admittedly a lot of that has to do with the bad rap Pennington gets. Favre hasn't even thrown down the field the last couple of games that much, but the threat is there and he can get the ball quickly, with some zip, to our receivers right off the line.

I actually saw Gholston chasing Collins on a play......

[timewaster]

19th ranked running offense last year. I cursed the name Thomas Jones for most of his 1 touchdown season. Now, he is the leading rusher in the AFC. Added Fanaca and Woody. Four of the Jets starting o-line men are first rounders. Mangold and D'Brick have excelled this year, with some thanks to Fanaca i would assume.

Defense is ranked 3rd against the run in the NFL. As compared to 29th last year. Jenkins is a beast.

Havent seen many sacks in recent games. Pace has 6 on the year.

Not a fan of the Favre move at first either. But how can you complain now? Hopefully Ratliff is learning something. As this might be the last year a back up QB can. Does Ratliff have a quick release in his game? Does Kellen Clemens? Would be nice to emulate what this years Jets are doing, every year.

[josh07039]

Before the Jets traded for him I was saying that I didnt want him and I wanted to see what we had in clemens. Once we got him, I just got caught up in the wave of hysteria and I still haven't come down from it.

As for all the other moves, in the offseason I knew it would make us better but I didn't know how much. Honestly, I had my doubts about Jenkins because I was nervous he would just get fatter and lazier than he already was at some points in his career.

I think without Favre, the other moves might have proven to not be enough to justify the spending. While he hasn't been the best qb in the league, he has done things that none of our other quarterbacks could do(I assume) and is playing great football when it counts.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

As for all the other moves, in the offseason I knew it would make us better but I didn't know how much. Honestly, I had my doubts about Jenkins because I was nervous he would just get fatter and lazier than he already was at some points in his career.

That was a definite thought in my mind also. The fit was right, as we needed a run plugging goliath, but his weight has always been an issue, as have injuries, so it seemed to be a fairly risky move. It has turned out to be the right one though, he is playing to his highest ability right now. His pass rush has impressed me too....

[JETS5128]

Although everyone is going to make a HUGE deal about todays game, it really doesn't bother me. We played terribly on D, terribly on O, and had literally every single call go against us. Yet we were still in the game for three and a half quarters. As long as there is no hangover from this game and San Fran is handled next week, the loss doesn't mean too much. We were bound to lose ventually, and it's a good thing that our loss came at the same time as NE's. This loss doesn't change the way i view our team. We should still finish out 4-0/3-1 and be in a good position for a playoff run

[AlexDown]

Figures! Typical Jets!

Jets5128, I have no idea how you can even stay confidently the Jets should finish out 4-0, 3-1. We still have 2 tough divisional games, one of them on the road against MIA and Buffalo. We SHOULD be able to beat SF and Seattle.

These types of games just frustrate the hell out of me. The Jets have played so well as of late, it was really hard watching them not being able to score or stop Denver at ALL. This really is a two faced team, and I really do wonder why that is.

[bigbluedefense]

Sooo...

you have a killer run game and are playing against a terrible run defense.

After some hiccups, you get back in the game with the run game, both of your TDs came from the run game.....


...and you decide to air it out to get back in the game....

Mangini is such a moron some times.

[josh07039]

I really thought that got this crap out of the way over the last 3 weeks or so. It seemed like the team was finally getting together some consistency on both sides of the ball. Now I'm not sure if we are just had a bad day in the rain after 2 great victories or are we just an inconsistent team that can't keep it together.

The most surprising part of the loss was the run defense. I mean even in other games that we lost, the run defense has still pretty much been good. On top of that, we got zero pass rush. Cutler had like 20 minutes in the pocket every play. I thought it was so stupid when Jenkins kept getting taken out because the Broncos were doing some hurry up. Jenkins is the anchor of the d, he can't be out for as long as he was for some stretches.

I'm not going to panic because of this game, and I think a lot of the loss had to do with nothing going our way in terms of fumbles, challenges, etc. However, the play calling was still kinda ****** and that is a problem that may not get better any time soon.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Let's face it, we were terrible in pretty much all facets, including coaching. Some more particular things i'm going to 'complain' about:
1. The Cotchery fumble - I'm not sure how a guy can be on the ball, with the ball in his possession (it was weak for a second, but let's be real) and then 2 guys jump on him and somehow it is still a live ball? Then the good old fashion, 'this play is not reviewable'. What is that? The point is to get the calls correct, don't give me that crap. What was the reasoning behind it not being reviewable?

2. Denver Injuries - Give me a break....either they are very unlucky, full of wussies, or had some stroke of convenience that whenever we went to a hurry up, that some guy would go down to let them sub, but be able to come back 2-3 plays later. That should be watched going forward, it was far to often and far to convenient. Rest, subs, throw off the rhythm of an offense, all that crap.

3. Pass game - We weren't all that consistent on the run game, but that is where the big plays came from. We had it going for a stretch. The pass wasn't working all that well, except for some nice screens. Why does the coaching staff force certain issues? Against KC, 'they must think we'll run because they suck at defending it, so lets pass'. Seemed fairly similar this game. Stick with the run, control the tempo, enforce your will. That was pathetic out there, especially with all those 'nobody's' on their D.

4. Abram Elam - I'll cut him some slack because the previous weeks he had been making some big plays. However, this week showed that he's very inconsistent. I would rate his play yesterday as an F. He and Law were picked on constantly. His tackling was far from good (one effort in particular stays in my mind that would make me say pathetic but i won't), and he blew a few plays in coverage that cost us big (see Royal and Stokley). Terrible showing and he better get it together.

5. Pass Rush - Where? What was that? Invisible out there.
6. Run D - Wasn't any. Hiller had like 3 19-yard runs in the first half. It wasn't one big play that got the yardage, they just abused us.

7. Revis - IMO another outstanding game. All the pass attack damage was against Law and Elam on the other side. Revis had numerous pass breakups and had very good coverage. I understand why they were doubling Marshall, but why not have Revis man up, and then put Elam over the top? I think we would have been better served to have Rhodes man the other side of the field to 'spread the wealth'. Instead, we let Elam get burned multiple times, and Rhodes had no chances to play the ball in the air where Revis wasn't already shutting down his man.

8. WRs - Coles was non-existant. Did Bly really shut him down? Cotchery has been reliable all season, but his hands weren't what they have been all season. Keller continued to be a bright spot.

9. Barton - It didn't cost us, but i will say that if it had, him being a complete moron and throwing that football would have made my head explode. Instantly i started thinking of Ruud for the Browns a few years ago. Bone-headed play.

10. David Harris - When do we get him back? This week, or next week?

I'll leave it at that. What a frustrating game from numerous fronts. Get it out of the way and move on. Big stretch run coming, we're just lucky the Patriots and Bills both lost...

[gsorace]

Mangini is such a moron some times.

I have no faith in the Jets coaching staff at all.

Thomas Jones, the leading rusher in the AFC, only gets 16 carries...Ty Law blitzing...only rushing 3 linemen...at no point in the game was Cutler even close to getting sacked.

[AlexDown]

Ellis was arrested on marijuana possession.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3746304

I wonder what kind of punishment he will get by the team or the league. Really, unfortunate news.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Definitely not something we need. Ugh. Terrible.

[josh07039]

Ellis was arrested on marijuana possession.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3746304

I wonder what kind of punishment he will get by the team or the league. Really, unfortunate news.
Im kinda shocked actually, Ellis has always seemed like a smart guy and a good guy off the field. Losing him for any amount of time is awful. He has been great this year and it will be hard to replace him for any amount of time.

[timewaster]

Im still pissed i went to the Denver game. Didnt want to go but was "peer pressured".

[AlexDown]

Im still pissed i went to the Denver game. Didnt want to go but was "peer pressured".

I'm going to the Miami game, which is the last game of the season. Did you stay for the entire game?

[derza222]

This has been a pitiful performance today, especially given the huge playoff implications that it has.

[JETS5128]

I put the last two games 100% on mangini and co.

Complete lack of preparation and sense of urgency. TJ has 10 carries today?? WTF??? Defensive playcalling has been absolutely terrible, getting zero pressure on the QB and playing soft coverage on every play. This team has shown no passion the last two weeks and it's painful to watch

This entire year we have completely sucked whenever we are the favorite, that is 100% on the coaching staff.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

10 carries for TJ? Is this some sort of joke? It was never a blow out situation. What the hell is wrong with Mangini? I'm getting really annoyed with Mangini and his stupidity, i can't even describe it. Honestly, i know he had a real good first year, and we have a solid record this season, but i really don't think he knows what the hell he's doing. There have been a number of games where he just seems to abandon the run game for no reason....and it is getting on my damn nerves!

[josh07039]

I want to die. How are they not going to make the playoffs? I always had it in the back of my head that it was possible, but I didn't fully believe it as more than an outside shot until now.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Well, Buffalo is on a slide, which helps. Seahawks aren't very good in any facet, and we get to play Miami for what could be the game that determines whether we make it. Basically, our fate is in our hands, and if the team is good enough, we should make it, if not, we only lose a 3rd for Favre (a way of looking positively) and we know we didn't deserve it (and maybe Mangini gets fired, which i wouldn't be saddened by)

[josh07039]

A bit close for comfort today, but a win is a win.

[AlexDown]

Those tickets I got for week 17 are looking more and more important.....

I'm pretty sure the Jets are 0-3 on their trips to the West Coast this year. I hope they are ready.

[derza222]

Those tickets I got for week 17 are looking more and more important.....

I'm pretty sure the Jets are 0-3 on their trips to the West Coast this year. I hope they are ready.

Yup. Chargers, Raiders, 49ers. They'd best be ready and fired up. It'd also be nice if we started to run the ball some. And Leon Washington needs more touches.

[jmess15]

Yup. Chargers, Raiders, 49ers. They'd best be ready and fired up. It'd also be nice if we started to run the ball some. And Leon Washington needs more touches.

I agree Leon needs more touches. Seemed they got away from that in the two losses.

Did you see Vernon was inactive today. Can't say as I blame them, but wow...really liked him coming out. Hopefully he just needs time to develop.

[disgruntledjetsfan]

I agree Leon needs more touches. Seemed they got away from that in the two losses.

Did you see Vernon was inactive today. Can't say as I blame them, but wow...really liked him coming out. Hopefully he just needs time to develop.


Yeah and we had no pass rush today. We need to do something to pressure the QB, I know Buffalo has a massive OL, but JP Losman appeared to have massive amounts of time to throw the ball (so did Brett Favre - our OL looked great). That needs to change. I wish Gholston was ready to contribute like we hoped he would be.

[D-Unit]

Here are the results from the Forum Mock. Being the Gm was fun. Why didn't any of you apply? Jbond just gave me a team that nobody took, but I enjoyed it.

Grade this:

New York Jets

Trades:

"Selling High"
Trade: Sent RB Thomas Jones to the Houston Texans in exchange for a 3rd round pick (#90 Overall)
Logic: Jones is coming off a great season after an otherwise pedestrian career. We credit his success to Favre's impact on the game. He has hit the dreaded 30 year old mark for a RB. So we consider trading him now as "selling high". This is a great way to score some value and cap off his 2 year rental considering the minimal cost it took to get him and the production we've received in return.

"Finding the right fit at the right value"
3 way Trade (NYJ-ATL-BAL): Sent our First Rounder (18 overall) in exchange for LB Jarrett Johnson, a First Rounder (28 overall) and a Third Rounder (83 overall)
Logic: At the 18 overall pick, we did not see a player available that could blow us away. Honestly, we liked Taylor Mays, Brandon Spikes, and Herman Johnson (as a RT prospect). With Mays off the board, we looked for a trade down and found a deal we liked and still ended up with Spikes who we really wanted badly. Jarrett Johnson was more than just a toss in, as we like his youth and the depth he provides in addition to his experience as a 3-4 OLB.


"On Attack"
Trade: Sent our 2nd Round pick (51 overall) and 3rd Round pick (90 overall) for Jacksonville's 2nd Round pick (40 overall).
Logic: We had 1 player in mind and 1 player only who we were desperately pursuing. RB Shonn Greene. We were discussing with teams who had picks in the late 1st to the early 2nd to see if we could move up. We felt strongly that we had to jump ahead of Philly at the least. We finally found a partner in JAX and were elated to grab Greene.


Draft Picks:

28. New York Jets (f/ BAL) – Brandon Spikes LB/Florida
Logic: Brandon Spikes is an incredible player who has proven to be one of the country's elite LB prospects. We wanted to pair him inside the heart of our Defense alongside David Harris in our 3-4 scheme to give us one of the brightest duos in the league for a very long time.

40. New York Jets (f/ JAC) - Shonn Greene RB/Iowa
Logic: With Leon "Sparky" Washington we wanted to add a back that better compliments his "breakaway" ability. Shonn Greene reminds us of Marion Barber's violent running style. He's got great balance and power in a compact frame, always falls forward, has a great spin move, stiff arm... and most off all never goes down upon first contact. He was the ONE player in the draft that we set out to get from the very beginning. Landing him set the War Room in celebration.

79. New York Jets (f/ NO) - Derrick Williams WR/Penn State
Logic: Laverneous Coles is getting old, Jericho Cotchery is a nice possession receiver, Dustin Keller is more like a tall WR than TE and he gives us a big receiving target. What's missing is a speed burner to turn up the sidelines and stretch the field. We targeted him going into the draft and landing him brought great satisfaction. D-Will will get time in the slot from the start but has the potential to become much more than that if he develops. We feel the WRs corps is now well rounded with nice talent.

83. New York Jets (f/ ATL) - Vance Walker DT/Georgia Tech
Logic: Our front 3 got a boost with the addition of Kris Jenkins, but at DE, Shaun Ellis is our only capable end. Kenyon Coleman is a depth guy being asked to start. At 6-3, 295, Vance Walker not only has ideal size for the 3-4 DE position, but he has the pass rushing mentality. There were other prospects with similar size, but Walker had the pass rushing skillset and repitoire that separated him from other available prospects and fit what we were looking for. His addition will boost our front 7 and Mangini can continue to add complexities to his schemes now that the right people and the right talents are in place.

[derza222]

I like it. My one and only criticism is that Derrick Williams, while talented, doesn't address the size issue in the receiving corps. Obviously at that point in the draft you can't really go for size and speed and get some polish as well at that point in the draft and Williams isn't a bad player, but size there would be nice as well. We really only have the tight ends for size and they aren't that big either (6'2 for Keller and 6'3 for Baker I believe). Also not exactly sure where Johnson fits in with Pace, Thomas, Gholston, and a little Bowens as well who flips back and forth between ILB and OLB, can play both, and is more of a natural OLB, but you can't have too many pass rushers and he's solid so it's tough to question. Overall if that actually happened come draft day I'd be really, really happy with it. Spikes is an awesome fit next to Harris in the middle and I absolutely love Shonn Greene for us. Great to get an end in there as well. Kind of tough to part with Jones especially because of his locker room presence and what he's done this year but better to get rid of a guy a year too early I guess.

[gsorace]

Did you see Vernon was inactive today. Can't say as I blame them, but wow...really liked him coming out. Hopefully he just needs time to develop.

He needs better coaches.

[AlexDown]

I posted before that I would have applied but it was during finals. Did you do this draft assuming that Favre would stay another year? Did this effect your draft at all / the talent of senior QBs in this draft.

[D-Unit]

I posted before that I would have applied but it was during finals. Did you do this draft assuming that Favre would stay another year? Did this effect your draft at all / the talent of senior QBs in this draft.
I did assume Favre would be back. I think he'll be back for at least 2 more seasons too. I figured with Clemens and Ainge that you had enough young untested arms. I wouldn't have drafted any QBs in the first 3 rounds.

[D-Unit]

I like it. My one and only criticism is that Derrick Williams, while talented, doesn't address the size issue in the receiving corps. Obviously at that point in the draft you can't really go for size and speed and get some polish as well at that point in the draft and Williams isn't a bad player, but size there would be nice as well. We really only have the tight ends for size and they aren't that big either (6'2 for Keller and 6'3 for Baker I believe). Also not exactly sure where Johnson fits in with Pace, Thomas, Gholston, and a little Bowens as well who flips back and forth between ILB and OLB, can play both, and is more of a natural OLB, but you can't have too many pass rushers and he's solid so it's tough to question. Overall if that actually happened come draft day I'd be really, really happy with it. Spikes is an awesome fit next to Harris in the middle and I absolutely love Shonn Greene for us. Great to get an end in there as well. Kind of tough to part with Jones especially because of his locker room presence and what he's done this year but better to get rid of a guy a year too early I guess.
Johnson was strictly a toss in in that trade. I tried to get Demetrius Williams or Antwan Barnes, but they weren't biting. With D-Will it was a speed vs size thing. I did consider Heyward-Bey in round 1, but I liked Spikes a lot more. So it was between D-Will and Brian Robiskie in the 3rd and I pulled the trigger on D-Will factoring in how much he impacted Penn St. Without him, they'd be a different team. Without Robiskie, OSU wouldn't have missed a beat. Williams also has versatility in the return game... and the plan is to give Leon Washington more snaps... I think that is important... and with more snaps, that means you have to relieve him of some kick return duties. D-Will can easily help out in that department. Also, Robiskie isn't that much taller than Keller... but no one on the Jets roster has the kind of speed and talent that Williams has. Stretching the field helps to keep defenses honest... preventing them from keeping 8 in the box which helps the run. ...and with Favre's arm, there's no one currently who really allows Brett to take advantage of his deep throws... and that's not a good thing.

[derza222]

Johnson was strictly a toss in in that trade. I tried to get Demetrius Williams or Antwan Barnes, but they weren't biting. With D-Will it was a speed vs size thing. I did consider Heyward-Bey in round 1, but I liked Spikes a lot more. So it was between D-Will and Brian Robiskie in the 3rd and I pulled the trigger on D-Will factoring in how much he impacted Penn St. Without him, they'd be a different team. Without Robiskie, OSU wouldn't have missed a beat. Williams also has versatility in the return game... and the plan is to give Leon Washington more snaps... I think that is important... and with more snaps, that means you have to relieve him of some kick return duties. D-Will can easily help out in that department. Also, Robiskie isn't that much taller than Keller... but no one on the Jets roster has the kind of speed and talent that Williams has. Stretching the field helps to keep defenses honest... preventing them from keeping 8 in the box which helps the run. ...and with Favre's arm, there's no one currently who really allows Brett to take advantage of his deep throws... and that's not a good thing.

Ah gotcha on Johnson. You had me fooled in your writeup with the "Johnson was more than just a toss-in" comment there. Like I said even though I'm not sure how much he'll see the field it can't hurt to add another guy that can get after the quarterback.

I understand the logic behind the Williams pick, especially the return value with Leon Washington getting more touches on offense. Just pointing out that our WR corps is missing more than just speed. Obviously it's tough to get a guy with both size and speed at that point so to take a guy that's good at one rather than medicre at both who will impact special teams on top of it is obviously a nice find at that point. One name to keep in mind, though, is David Clowney. A little raw at the moment and he hasn't gotten on the field until last game mostly due to injury, but he's the one guy with legit speed on our roster that can get deep. Unfortunately at this point he can't make much of an impact so I'm not saying we don't need to get more speed at the position at all, but we do have a talented fast guy on the roster, albeit just one.

[derza222]

So...we got seven guys in the Pro Bowl. Five alternates. Not bad...

[AlexDown]

Did we have any guys in the Pro Bowl last year?

[gsorace]

Nope, Rhodes and maybe Leon as a returner should have made it last year, but didn't

[derza222]

Nope, Rhodes and maybe Leon as a returner should have made it last year, but didn't

Yup, Leon made it as the return guy this year but Rhodes is still missing his elusive Pro Bowl berth, one of our five alternates. Hope he gets one eventually, he really deserves it.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Yup, Leon made it as the return guy this year but Rhodes is still missing his elusive Pro Bowl berth, one of our five alternates. Hope he gets one eventually, he really deserves it.

Doesn't deserve it based on this season. Throw in the season Polamolu is having, and the big plays Reed has made, and there was no chance in hell. He hasn't been a playmaker this season.....

[derza222]

Doesn't deserve it based on this season. Throw in the season Polamolu is having, and the big plays Reed has made, and there was no chance in hell. He hasn't been a playmaker this season.....

Right, he just hasn't had his opporunities on this defense this season. It's unfortunate really, because he certainly has the talent to he just hasn't been put in that kind of position. Has been a bit more of a diva this year though, or at least it seems like it. Hopefully he gets one eventually because he's deserved it more than once...

I think NT might become a bit more of a priority this offseason with how the run defense has faltered some, I think we may have leaned a bit on Jinx too much and worn him down a bit, it would be nice to have a high level guy to develop and spell him so they both stay fresh.

[josh07039]

I agree with both of those comments. Rhodes has been good, but he hasn't been getting in there at the line of scrimmage blowing guys up and he hasn't been breaking up as many passes as he used to. That may change if they get a guy that is better to play next to him.

As for NT, we definitley need another guy. As good as Jenkins has been(MVPesque until the last few games), Im still nervous he'll get fat and lazy in a year or two. Even if he doesn't the backups we have can't be our starter on a regular basis. So whether it's an injury or Jenkins just getting old, we need a guy that's ready to step in.

[AlexDown]

Totally off topic but Josh, I still crack up every time I see Brooks Bollinger in your sig. Time for a new sig?

Lets go Jets!

[derza222]

Totally off topic but Josh, I still crack up every time I see Brooks Bollinger in your sig. Time for a new sig?

Lets go Jets!

The sig makes me crack up every time I see it too.

As far as NT's I have a feeling Raji is gone by the time we pick and he's got academic issues anyway so we may steer away from him. His teammate Brace is big and could be available around the third, some think he's actually a better NT prospect than Raji. And then you have Cody who is a monster but I think weight and academic concerns could have us avoiding him unless he's a good value, and with the hype he's getting unless he starts to slip big time I'm not sure you're going to get a good value on him. Other than that I'm not sure about draftable NT's, at least we have a good one but there's so few out there and not many teams really have a good one.

Finally, lets hope we prepared well for Seattle and are focused for todays game. Hopefully we can finally pull one out on the West Coast!

[josh07039]

Totally off topic but Josh, I still crack up every time I see Brooks Bollinger in your sig. Time for a new sig?

Lets go Jets!I thought about it once or twice, but then decided against it. This sig is so old school and ridiculous. After all, even though Chrebet is retired, Bollinger no longer plays for the Jets, and Leonard graduated, the point still stands. Those three men represent a level of greatness that is not easily attainable. I should consider updating to add someone like leon washington or maybe Jericho. However, it just wouldn't be right to look down and not see that sig.

[derza222]

Agreed, that sig is a classic. It just wouldn't be the same reading your posts without it. Still gets a laugh from me, though.

Game time!

[derza222]

That was embarassing.

[JETS5128]

Fire Mangini

[Crickett]

That was embarassing.

Fire Mangini

QFT.

If you cant beat the backups on one of the worst team in the league, you don't deserve to go to the playoffs. And Mangini deserves the pink slip. Sadly, because the Jets have improved so much record wise, its not going to happen.

[AlexDown]

This loss doesn't change the way i view our team. We should still finish out 4-0/3-1 and be in a good position for a playoff run

Nope..................

[JETS5128]

QFT.

If you cant beat the backups on one of the worst team in the league, you don't deserve to go to the playoffs. And Mangini deserves the pink slip. Sadly, because the Jets have improved so much record wise, its not going to happen.

I don't know about that, this is one time when the intense scrutiny of new york may actually be beneficial

[JETS5128]

Nope..................

Tits, Ass, Piss out of my Ass

[josh07039]

**** **** **** **** Kill Me Now ****

[AlexDown]

They could not beat Oakland, could not beat San Francisco, could not beat Seattle!

This team is so frustrating to watch. Score on the first drive of the game and do nothing after.

Maybe Buffalo will actually win a divisional game this coming week.

[AlexDown]

Saw this on another board.....

You know your coach is a ****** when you have more ProBowlers standing with their hands on their hips than you do points on the scoreboard!

[JETS5128]

Just did some research, and i found out that we are undefeated when we call more runs than passes. Which makes me ask, where the **** has the running game gone? Every game TJ should be getting 20+ touches and Leon around 10. The running game was the key to our offense when we were on our five game winning streak, and the coaches inexcusably abandoned it.

[josh07039]

Ok now that I've calmed down Im gonna say things that aren't going to be censored. I know the team was in trouble when Mangini decided to not go for it on that 4th and 1 on the first drive. They were deep in the redzone and as the "superior" team, you need to come out and show no respect. The offense was clicking on the first drive and moved the ball down the field and the coach who has gone for it on 4th pretty often with a lot of success just decides against it for no reason. I know you can say that on the first drive you have to come out with points but you cant wimp out when so much if on the line.

The moronic theme throughout the game was that they generated no pass rush all game against a line that was decimated by injury to an extent that I can't say I have ever seen. It wasn't simply that the players didn't perform, Mangini didn't send enough guys to get pressure. I mean, SENECA WALLACE. REALLY?

The fg was not such an awful decision but at the time I did want Feely to take it but I wasn't as adamant as I was when I wanted them to go for it on 4th. Its those judgment calls that the average fan is somewhat unsure about is the call that the good coaches need to get right.

I really don't understand how this team could lose to the Raiders, Seahawks, Niners, and Chargers. Its pretty clear that it was a problem of mindset or preparation, two things that the coach needs to take care of.

I don't see Mangini getting fired by any means. The record will definitely save him, but next year could be problematic. Not awful, but maybe bad enough to get rid of Mangini. The moment when LC couldn't come down with that deep ball, there was a shot of Favre and it just looked like he wasn't coming back. Obviously at the end of a tough loss, he isn't going to have perspective, but it seems likely that if the team misses the playoffs in this embarrassing way, Favre will just get the hell out. Then next season we face a qb battle of Ratliff, Ainge, and Clemens. We have a lot of players that are borderline old so our window is closing, I'm not sure we have time to groom a young qb right now.

That whole thing was rambling and didn't really lead to any logical conclusion. I'm assuming I'll look back and see that some of this was a bit pessimistic, however, I'm a lifelong Jets fan that's how it has to be.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Screw the Jets, they don't deserve playoffs. Give me a damn break. Get Mangini out of here. Can anyone here honestly say that they think the Jets can ever win a championship with Mangini leading them? Losing to the teams they have this year, the ways they have lost, and the stupid ass 'gameplan' and playcalling have been inexcusable. Does anyone here see the players having 'respect' for someone like Mangini? He isn't a guy who commands respect and shows leadership. Maybe i'm wrong, but when you see, when you hear, and when you watch someone, you get a feeling of 'This guy wants to win, i trust him, i'll follow him!' and he doesn't give me any of those tihngs. His gameplans have been average at best. He has won some big games, yes. However, do some big wins compensate enough to cover the inexcusable loses? I don't know if they do.

I'm very frustrated with everything. Am i overreacting? Maybe. But these aren't things that i have only thought about recently. At least it is only a 3rd rounder for Favre......we don't deserve playoffs. I hope we do make it though, and it appears as though we can beat the 'good' teams, but we get some sort of ego and mindset that we are superior when we play the poor teams....

[jmess15]

Generally speaking I am usually in favor of stability, and don't like to rush to judgement. Not rushing to judgement worked for the Giants with Coughlin and to an extent with Cowher in Pitt..hell it even worked for Chuck Knoll and Tom Landry too-though obviously they are far superior coaches to what we have.

However I have never been a big Mangini guy. Going back to his first press conference i doubted his abilities. Usually coaches inspire the fan base on their introductory press conference, but all he did was stammer through it and make very little sense. Heck, even Rich Kotite inspired Jets fans for a few days after he got the job. Obviously not withstanding that, he has not really differentiated himself. He consistently tried to fit square pegs in round holes but we always thought he had the pedigree to coach.

But now I think his weaknesses are being shown (will not rehash them now). If they make the playoffs I think he comes back (but both coordinators should be gone..especially Sutton) if they don't make the playoffs then he should be gone on Monday.

I wonder if Bill Cowher would take Woody's money?

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I never mention it, but Cowher would be an amazing addition. However, i don't see that happening, we are far from that lucky...

Mangini doesn't have the long standing record of the other individuals mentioned where patience paid off. I still hold a grudge from him being an idiot and foring the 3-4 when clearly we had next to nothing that fit that mold. He couldn't wait, he had to push it and be stupid. I see far to many consistently stupid things from him where he just keeps forcing it to maintain his ego.

If i'm a football player (or anyone), i am not thinking 'leader' when i see/hear him. You need someone who can take charge and command respect to manage a football team. I don't see him as a 'players coach' either....so where does he fit.

[gsorace]

bringcowhertony.com

[Crickett]

The head coach I'd like to see the Jets bring in is Marvin Lewis. I think between the distractions, what has happened to the Bengals OL and the loss of Carson Palmer, he has lost that team, but the Jets have better defensive talent now than the Bengals ever have under Lewis' reign there and I think he would be a better fit as the Jets HC than he did as the Bengals HC.

[josh07039]

The head coach I'd like to see the Jets bring in is Marvin Lewis. I think between the distractions, what has happened to the Bengals OL and the loss of Carson Palmer, he has lost that team, but the Jets have better defensive talent now than the Bengals ever have under Lewis' reign there and I think he would be a better fit as the Jets HC than he did as the Bengals HC.
The guy to ask about this is Derza. He is a Bengals fans as well as a Jets fan, so he would know both sides. But I would be conflicted. I LOVE how he handled Chad; I always hate when players can get whatever they want just by demanding stuff under threat and then having coaches give in. However, as you said, he lost the the team. Even under extreme adversity, you need to hold your team together. Also, I dont like a lot of the guys he has brought in in terms of character. I don't think I need to mention names.

[Crickett]

Also, I dont like a lot of the guys he has brought in in terms of character. I don't think I need to mention names.

Yeah, I know, but I always figured he wasn't the guy bringing them in. I mean, if he was, I'd think they'd have done more for that front seven in the draft and free agency.

[derza222]

Lewis is an interesting guy to bring up here. You can say he lost his team, but they play pretty hard. Obviously the character there sucks but that's Mike Brown doing his "I like to give guys second chances" thing. I think Lewis is starting to get to choose what direction he wants to go in with players, but ultimately he generally ends up getting screwed. They employ almost no scouts, leak everything (remember the interest in Derrick Harvey last year that everyone here even knew about, and resulted in the the Jags trading up one pick ahead of them and stealing him? Sed Ellis, too. Not that Rivers was an awful consolation prize, but still...), and Brown still has the final call bringing back guys like Chris Henry. He definitely isn't to blame this year because their offensive line is testicles and they lost Carson Palmer. He's done an alright job handling 85, better of late but at the same time he isn't producing. So Lewis has him under control but what good is it when he's doing next to nothing? For all the trouble Chad gets from the media he's harmless, he just likes to run his trap which can cause problems but isn't a huge deal.

Anyways the guys play hard for Lewis, or at least they have this year, and the defense has improved slightly as the talent has. The offense has been their bright spot, which is interesting for a defensive coach. On one hand that's what he had when he started in Cincy, but on the other hand he's been bringing in defensive guys all the time and just has been unable to find the right fit. So it kind of makes you wonder what exactly he could have done to improve the defense, and what kind of defensive mind he is if he keeps bringin in guys to improve his team and doesn't get the job done. Now in New York could he rally the troops and motivate his players to play better than we have towards the end of the season and do a little more with a higher level of talent? Maybe. But he hasn't shown he really knows what he's doing with a defense, so I'm not sure. They have been playing alright this season though. One thing that I love is this is a team who has, granted playing the Browns last week and possibly the Chiefs this week, played hard all year. They have won two meaningless games, one of which was against a decent Redskins team, and have been in a lot of the games that they've played this year.

So I guess to sum up, he handles players alright but not great. However it's hard to judge him because first of all there are pretty much no guys out there like 85 and Coach Lew wouldn't have a situation like that out here. He'd have better scouts, more access to high-level coordinators (Bratkowski needs to be shown the door), and wouldn't have low-character guys forced on him. The players have played hard this year but at the same time I haven't seen the ability to develop a defense. Perhaps that's due to the Bengals being cheap among other things. If he came in here I do think he would keep the 3-4 but find a new coordinator to run it. However I think it's a moot point because IMO both of our coaches stick around, Brown wants to give Lew all the time he needs and while Mangini could be fired because of media/fan pressure I think Woody keeps him along to try and find some consistency. Ultimately I think he'd be a solid hire, you could certainly do worse with a lot of the unknowns out there.

[AlexDown]

I originally thought we need the Patriots to lose and for us to win to be playoff bound. But I just heard on the news that if the Ravens lose, it doesn't matter if the Patriots win or not. One of those teams losses and we win, Jets are in. Can anyone confirm that?

['cuse-213]

I originally thought we need the Patriots to lose and for us to win to be playoff bound. But I just heard on the news that if the Ravens lose, it doesn't matter if the Patriots win or not. One of those teams losses and we win, Jets are in. Can anyone confirm that?

Yes.

sdgadh

[jetvilma51]

Yes.

sdgadh

But the Ravens are playing the Jags and the Jags havnt looked that good recently

['cuse-213]

But the Ravens are playing the Jags and the Jags havnt looked that good recently

Any given Sunday my man. Just think.. THIS very Jets team was once 8-3 and had a ticket written to the Superbowl.

[josh07039]

Any given Sunday my man. Just think.. THIS very Jets team was once 8-3 and had a ticket written to the Superbowl.
I always had a voice i n my head saying they wouldn't make the playoffs. For a while I was kinda taken in by the Favre aura. I thought that if anyone could get rid of the tradition of losing it was him. However, in the back of my mind I knew that this was still the same old Jets. Even if we do make the playoffs, it will be in the Jets way. Backing in is how the Jets do it.

[shavedaeyebrow2]

We suck. Chad showed us why we never should have gotten rid of him today. Favre better retire and Mangini better either grow a pair and learn to be a little risky once and a while or he better be fired.

['cuse-213]

I am not on board with firing Mangini. He really is a solid coach. We do need a great 3-4 DC though.

['cuse-213]

Shonn Greene and Leon Washington.

Pray.

[illmatic74]

I am not on board with firing Mangini. He really is a solid coach. We do need a great 3-4 DC though.Schottenheimer has to go though

['cuse-213]

Schottenheimer has to go though

I wouldnt be too disappointed. Could most likely find an upgrade.

[josh07039]

Schottenheimer has to go thoughI agree, I think we witnessed today what an inventive offense can do to a team.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

We suck. Chad showed us why we never should have gotten rid of him today. Favre better retire and Mangini better either grow a pair and learn to be a little risky once and a while or he better be fired.

Give me a break. Change of scenery can do wonders. Don't act like this is the same Pennington we got last season....because it isn't. MAybe better play calling, but Pennington was a whole step down last year and it cost us more than once. Pennington did well and i'm happy for him, but don't just think that we didn't get rid of him for a reason, he wasn't performing that great....

I don't think lack of being 'risky' is what cost us today....

[gio]

goodbye to mangina!! i mean, who else is to blame for this collapse besides the coaching staff?!? what a real disappointment he was; stubborn as a mule and too smart for his own good. there is absolutely no excuse when you are 8-3 and top of the east and lose to dogsh!t teams like niners and hawks. i'm sure this will be repeated over and over again by everyone on this blog, but i have to get it off my chest. bring on cowher, billick, or gruden (if he eventually gets sh!tcanned also). all 3 are champs and favre would come back for them for at least another year. on another note, what pick do we get for vilma, now that he became a stud and played the whole season for the saints? is it a 2nd rounder?

[AlexDown]

goodbye to mangina!! i mean, who else is to blame for this collapse besides the coaching staff?!? what a real disappointment he was; stubborn as a mule and too smart for his own good. there is absolutely no excuse when you are 8-3 and top of the east and lose to dogsh!t teams like niners and hawks. i'm sure this will be repeated over and over again by everyone on this blog, but i have to get it off my chest. bring on cowher, billick, or gruden (if he eventually gets sh!tcanned also). all 3 are champs and favre would come back for them for at least another year. on another note, what pick do we get for vilma, now that he became a stud and played the whole season for the saints? is it a 2nd rounder?

They are not going to resign him. They are going to let him hit FA and on the first day probably just sign him. The Jets will get a 3rd round for him.

[gio]

i'll take a 3rd rounder. we need WRs in the worst way. i hope we don't sign back coles..idk who didn't want to be here more at the start of the season-favre or coles. looks like they both won't be here.

[Crickett]

If you cant beat the backups on one of the worst team in the league, you don't deserve to go to the playoffs. And Mangini deserves the pink slip. Sadly, because the Jets have improved so much record wise, its not going to happen.


Shows what I know. :p

[CC.SD]

Okay Jets fans, out of pure curiosity I ask; what is the deal with Vernon Gholston.

I can understand taking time to get acclimated or whatever, but he's not even playing special teams? What is going on with this kid?

[Crickett]

Okay Jets fans, out of pure curiosity I ask; what is the deal with Vernon Gholston.

I can understand taking time to get acclimated or whatever, but he's not even playing special teams? What is going on with this kid?


Watching him play, it made me wonder how he got any sacks in college. I mean, his repitoire seemed to consist of.......... nothing.

[gio]

did he even play a whole game this season where he rotated in and out of plays? i mean, i know they aren't going to start him, but gimme a break, he was like a ghost. lots of jets fans including myself were very satisfied with drafting him. obviously the same people are disappointed and i think we should have taken the other route and traded the pick..but it's easy to monday moring qb everything. i just hope they don't make the same mistake they made with farrior and let him walk, thinking that he wouldn't add up to anything significant. farrior was a stud LB, and has had a great career with Pitt. the jets just never, never ever used the guy when he was here.

[illmatic74]

Okay Jets fans, out of pure curiosity I ask; what is the deal with Vernon Gholston.

I can understand taking time to get acclimated or whatever, but he's not even playing special teams? What is going on with this kid?He made a nice tackle on a punt on Sunday.

[CC.SD]

Watching him play, it made me wonder how he got any sacks in college. I mean, his repitoire seemed to consist of.......... nothing.

But the guy has speed, and size, and I know he was working out with Lawrence Freaking Taylor, so how is the sum of all that...0?

['cuse-213]

He made a nice tackle on a punt on Sunday.

Nice.. meaning he actually made the tackle.

[Crickett]

But the guy has speed, and size, and I know he was working out with Lawrence Freaking Taylor, so how is the sum of all that...0?

I don't know what LT taught him, but whatever it was, it wasn't shown on the field.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

He made a nice tackle on a punt on Sunday.

i don't know if it was a 'nice' tackle, but it was a tackle non-the-less. i guess since he never makes tackles it would be 'nice' just because he made it.

[josh07039]

I don't know what LT taught him, but whatever it was, it wasn't shown on the field.It could be a couple of things.
1.Their working relationship has been overrated and he's not really what could be defined as LT's protege.
2. Gholston is a slow learner and will continue working in the offseason and will be able to show his skills next year.
3. He would've been able to make an impact relying on athleticism and the skills he's learning from LT if given more of a shot.
4.He's never gonna be a 3-4 olb and would be much better at 4-3 de.

[Crickett]

It could be a couple of things.
1.Their working relationship has been overrated and he's not really what could be defined as LT's protege.
2. Gholston is a slow learner and will continue working in the offseason and will be able to show his skills next year.
3. He would've been able to make an impact relying on athleticism and the skills he's learning from LT if given more of a shot.
4.He's never gonna be a 3-4 olb and would be much better at 4-3 de.


Its sad, but I think he's going to be a bust. And to think I wanted the Jets to draft him. :(

Whenever I saw him on the field, he just sort of engaged with the offensive linemen and just stood there. And when he did get free, he looked like he would lose a footrace to a slow motion Drew Bledsoe.

[josh07039]

Its sad, but I think he's going to be a bust. And to think I wanted the Jets to draft him. :(

Whenever I saw him on the field, he just sort of engaged with the offensive linemen and just stood there. And when he did get free, he looked like he would lose a footrace to a slow motion Drew Bledsoe.I'm not so quick to give up on the guy. He is so athletic, I am not going to write him off as a bust just yet. I really think he just needs time in the 3-4 if that is inded what we have next year or if we go back to the 4-3, he should be able to contribute more as a defensive end. I would be more apt to agree with you if not for the article about him learning from LT. It shows that even if he doesn't have a natural feel for the game, he is willing to learn and develop his instincts with the best at his position.

Im not going to pile on Mangini and this is wishful thinking, but perhaps he would've done better if he were given more time to play. I'm not saying he should've played more because the guys in front of him were clearly better. However, it is possible if he were on a worse team with less talent in front of him, he may have been able to make some plays that showed flashes of his potential.

[Race for the Heisman]

I know you just got the 3-4 working, but if you bring in a 4-3 guy you could see an explosive season from Gholston. He was always going to be better as a down lineman.

[josh07039]

I know you just got the 3-4 working, but if you bring in a 4-3 guy you could see an explosive season from Gholston. He was always going to be better as a down lineman.100% agree. As a DE he can live by his athleticism a little more.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

100% agree. As a DE he can live by his athleticism a little more.

not sure that is the correct way to say it, as OLBs in a 3-4 have to be very athletic. However, he is stiff and hasn't done coverage before, nor has he rushed from a stand up position. He has the stength and ability (and experience) from the down lineman position that would better conform to his skills.

['cuse-213]

It sounds like Spags is in the lead for HC job.

[jmess15]

While I am no big fan of Mangini, one thing does annoy me about all of this is. We had two unproductive years molding a 4-3 team into a 3-4 team, and then we finally land a few parts to make it a 3-4 (and spend money) and we fire the coach. If I knew Cowher was a no go I think i would have leaned towards keeping Mangini..Its like we wasted 3 years...

[Crickett]

It sounds like Spags is in the lead for HC job.


Shaun Ellis________ Kris Jenkins _______ Kenyon Coleman ________ Bryan Thomas/Vernon Gholston

Eric Barton ________ Jonathan Vilma (I wish) _________ Calvin Pace

David Harris = Cleveland Browns or San Diego Chargers first rounder?

[gsorace]

Harris would be fine in Spags' scheme.

[TimD]

I think we'll have a formidable defense with spags at the helm. like gsorace said, Harris fits in spags system. its not a 4-3 cover 2.

It looks pretty good. But it does change how we draft. Do we try to get an OLB to spell Pace and Barton?

Ellis - Jenkins - Mosley - Thomas
Bowens? - Puoha - Coleman - Gholston

Barton - Harris - Pace
idk about backups for LB

[TimD]

Okay let's assume Spags becomes our next head coach. Now I don't know who he'll choose for an o-coordinator but this is what I think our top 3 draft needs are. (I'm not listing QB because of the question mark with favre)

1. WR
2. FS/CB
3. OLB

[Crickett]

Okay let's assume Spags becomes our next head coach. Now I don't know who he'll choose for an o-coordinator but this is what I think our top 3 draft needs are. (I'm not listing QB because of the question mark with favre)

1. WR
2. FS/CB
3. OLB

I actually list CB as a lower need than most because they at the very least have Lowry as the #2 CB.

At WR, Coles disappointed me a lot this past season and the Jets need a long term home run threat.

At FS, well, both of the Jets starting safeties are free agent.

At OLB, even if they bring Eric Barton back, he's not getting any younger if you know what I mean.

[bigbluedefense]

uggghhhhh.

word on the street is Spags likes the Jets. he's a northeast guy and would like to stay here.

maybe he can motivate Gholston's worthless ass into something. if he can't do it, no one can.

[derza222]

I do think we can convert to a relatively successful 4-3 provided it's a guy like Spags coaching. Harris would be alright at MLB and I think he could do some stuff with Pace at SLB kind of like he did with Kiwi. Thomas would have to become a down end as would Gholston, who Spags could hopefully light a fire under. Ellis sticks at strongside end with the other two on the weak side. Not sure where a backup type like Bowens ends up but he could probably back up at SLB and play a little end. Jinx obviously sticks inside at tackle with Mosely and Pouha. Coleman maybe slims down some and plays strongside end? Not sure where DeVito ends up. Barton would start at WLB if we re-sign him but he's not getting any younger and that's not a guarantee. Not sure if we really have another good WLB type. That spot and tackle are probably the biggest question marks on the front 7 if we to switch to a 4-3, with FS a need and corner not a huge need but not exactly a stable position either. If we pick up another 4-3 guy though I'll be pretty disappointed.

[TimD]

Yeah if we move to Spags 4-3 D we should only have to fill those 3 spots (WLB, FS, DT). And to be honest that isn't bad at all for changing defenses. Those 3 spots and WR are our only true needs this offseason. I'm hoping for Spags or the Chin

[josh07039]

I do think we can convert to a relatively successful 4-3 provided it's a guy like Spags coaching. Harris would be alright at MLB and I think he could do some stuff with Pace at SLB kind of like he did with Kiwi. Thomas would have to become a down end as would Gholston, who Spags could hopefully light a fire under. Ellis sticks at strongside end with the other two on the weak side. Not sure where a backup type like Bowens ends up but he could probably back up at SLB and play a little end. Jinx obviously sticks inside at tackle with Mosely and Pouha. Coleman maybe slims down some and plays strongside end? Not sure where DeVito ends up. Barton would start at WLB if we re-sign him but he's not getting any younger and that's not a guarantee. Not sure if we really have another good WLB type. That spot and tackle are probably the biggest question marks on the front 7 if we to switch to a 4-3, with FS a need and corner not a huge need but not exactly a stable position either. If we pick up another 4-3 guy though I'll be pretty disappointed.
I think you might end up seeing some of those guys like DeVito and Coleman Slim down slightly and rotate in at De and also Dt one some plays. Spags used(not sure if he still does) DEs like Justin Tuck at tackle on passing downing to create a greater pass rush. Granted, those guys aren't Justin tuck, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Also, I not only think Harris could fit, I think he'd be better. If he has fewer responsibility's in terms of coverage, I think he would be more comfortable. He frequently was pretty weak in coverage this year.

[TimD]

Yeah that's a good point. We def need to add another productive guy to the DL.

[derza222]

I think you might end up seeing some of those guys like DeVito and Coleman Slim down slightly and rotate in at De and also Dt one some plays. Spags used(not sure if he still does) DEs like Justin Tuck at tackle on passing downing to create a greater pass rush. Granted, those guys aren't Justin tuck, but I'm just throwing it out there.

Yeah definitely, that's what I was thinking last night after I posted that but before I fell asleep. Even Gholston, with his strength, could potentially move inside on passing downs to allow for a guy like Bowens or Pace to slip in from the bench/linebacker and rush the passer. Defensive tackle is absolutely a need. An attacking potential WLB that could be interesting for us if he declares in the draft is Herzlich from BC, Spikes could fit as well though he's more of an ILB. He does blitz well, though. Really depends on his speed I guess. I'm really warming up to Spags though he's easily my favorite candidate right now, though I like Rex Ryan as well.

[GB12]

Yeah that's a good point. We def need to add another productive guy to the DL.
Like this guy?
http://andybwarren.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/352082.jpg

[josh07039]

Like this guy?
http://andybwarren.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/352082.jpgThe guy looks familiar, but I don't think I've seen him on a football field in a while.

['cuse-213]

The guy looks familiar, but I don't think I've seen him on a football field in a while.

you must have bot have seen the specila twemas tackle he madwe the other day then. it was a beasttt

[neko4]

Hey just seeing if anyone would like to join the new Forum Mock.
Right now nobody only one person has signed up to be the GM of the Jets and there is also an expansion team in this forum mock. So go check it out. Signups are scheduled to end Sunday night.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28445

[derza222]

Anybody know where Donnie Henderson's at right now? I was thinking about our previous coaching search and he was pretty awesome while he was here.

Star Ledger says Tannenbaum really likes Schottenheimer (Brian) and he's got a good shot to be our head coach. Frankly I'd be disappointed. Thoughts?

Of the head coaching candidates I like Spags and Rex Ryan the best. The major perk to Ryan is that we get to keep the 3-4. Both are well liked by their players and have had solid defenses, Ryan's over a slightly longer period but I'm impressed with how well the Giants have done without their two starting defensive ends from last year. Back to the scheme switch, I think our players could adjust to a Spags 4-3 with Pace playing a Kiwi role at SLB and Harris could be alright in the middle (he can't be much slower than Pierce) but unless we get a really fast WLB we'd have really slow players everywhere on that front seven.

Apparently Jenkins was slowed by a hernia injury in his back late in the season, the injury from the San Diego game, so at least that doesn't mean he began to wear down over the year. I still think we could use a legit backup to spell him, though.

Anybody know how much cap space we'd have for free agents/rookies if Favre does/doesn't come back? I know his cap number is like $12 million but how much do we have outside of that?

Finally, do you guys think we're going to re-sign Barton? If we don't that opens up a pretty big need at WLB or ILB regardless of scheme.

Sorry for the choppy post but I figured it'd be better to put the seperate thoughts in 1 than like 6.

[jetvilma51]

Anybody know how much cap space we'd have for free agents/rookies if Favre does/doesn't come back? I know his cap number is like $12 million but how much do we have outside of that?


Im not possitive how much we have but by the looks of are players that are free agents, it dosnt look like we have many players leaving that take up much cap room except Favre and Barton
And heres a list of are FA just to show everyone

Eric Barton -------------Abram Elam
Bubba Franks -----------Brett Ratliff
Mike Nugent -----------David Clowney
Cody Spencer ----------Marques Murrell
CJ Mosley--------------- Wallace Wright
Ahmad Carroll------------ JR Reed
Tony Richardson--------- Ty Law
Jesse Chatman-----------Jay Feely
Hank Poteat

[josh07039]

Anybody know where Donnie Henderson's at right now? I was thinking about our previous coaching search and he was pretty awesome while he was here.

Star Ledger says Tannenbaum really likes Schottenheimer (Brian) and he's got a good shot to be our head coach. Frankly I'd be disappointed. Thoughts?

Of the head coaching candidates I like Spags and Rex Ryan the best. The major perk to Ryan is that we get to keep the 3-4. Both are well liked by their players and have had solid defenses, Ryan's over a slightly longer period but I'm impressed with how well the Giants have done without their two starting defensive ends from last year. Back to the scheme switch, I think our players could adjust to a Spags 4-3 with Pace playing a Kiwi role at SLB and Harris could be alright in the middle (he can't be much slower than Pierce) but unless we get a really fast WLB we'd have really slow players everywhere on that front seven.

Apparently Jenkins was slowed by a hernia injury in his back late in the season, the injury from the San Diego game, so at least that doesn't mean he began to wear down over the year. I still think we could use a legit backup to spell him, though.

Anybody know how much cap space we'd have for free agents/rookies if Favre does/doesn't come back? I know his cap number is like $12 million but how much do we have outside of that?

Finally, do you guys think we're going to re-sign Barton? If we don't that opens up a pretty big need at WLB or ILB regardless of scheme.

Sorry for the choppy post but I figured it'd be better to put the seperate thoughts in 1 than like 6.
Donnie is secondary coach for the Jags. I was always sorry to see him go. He had an digressive blitzing style I loved and I'm surprised he hasn't begun to rise in the ranks of assistants/coordinators.

If we hire Brian, I'm going to be pissed. He hasn't been the inventive offensive genius that people pegged him as when hired. I don't think he's as bad a coordinator as people think, I just don't think he's ready to be a head coach.

Honestly, I think Ryan is the safer pick, but I think I would prefer Spags. Over the 3 Mangini years, I've started to realize how much harder the 3-4 is to execute well. The personnel needs to be both physically and mentally just right. I've already said that I think our personnel could pretty easily switch to the 4-3 and perhaps excel at it. My other reason is that I would love to steal the Giants' wunderkind.

[derza222]

Donnie is secondary coach for the Jags. I was always sorry to see him go. He had an digressive blitzing style I loved and I'm surprised he hasn't begun to rise in the ranks of assistants/coordinators.

If we hire Brian, I'm going to be pissed. He hasn't been the inventive offensive genius that people pegged him as when hired. I don't think he's as bad a coordinator as people think, I just don't think he's ready to be a head coach.

Honestly, I think Ryan is the safer pick, but I think I would prefer Spags. Over the 3 Mangini years, I've started to realize how much harder the 3-4 is to execute well. The personnel needs to be both physically and mentally just right. I've already said that I think our personnel could pretty easily switch to the 4-3 and perhaps excel at it. My other reason is that I would love to steal the Giants' wunderkind.


Yeah I'm very surprised Donnie hasn't moved up very much, he was an awesome DC for us.

I definitely go back and forth on Spags and Ryan. Spags I really like for the reasons you do. The one real worry I have with the 4-3 is our front 7 would be so slow everywhere, Harris and Pace would have less than ideal speed at linebacker, Ellis is pretty slow at end, Gholston hasn't been very explosive, Thomas is alright but I think you get the point. Perhaps it wouldn't be an issue in his scheme, who knows. I'd be happy with either but happier with Spags.

To answer one of my own questions apparently PFT says that we'll be like 10 million over the cap with Favre next year, possibly more, and maybe 3 millionish under without him. Pretty ridiculous, I thought we'd be more under the cap than that. Not sure what we'd do if he doesn't retire but I'd imagine some vets will be on their way out one way or another, just depends how many.

[josh07039]

Yeah I'm very surprised Donnie hasn't moved up very much, he was an awesome DC for us.

I definitely go back and forth on Spags and Ryan. Spags I really like for the reasons you do. The one real worry I have with the 4-3 is our front 7 would be so slow everywhere, Harris and Pace would have less than ideal speed at linebacker, Ellis is pretty slow at end, Gholston hasn't been very explosive, Thomas is alright but I think you get the point. Perhaps it wouldn't be an issue in his scheme, who knows. I'd be happy with either but happier with Spags.

To answer one of my own questions apparently PFT says that we'll be like 10 million over the cap with Favre next year, possibly more, and maybe 3 millionish under without him. Pretty ridiculous, I thought we'd be more under the cap than that. Not sure what we'd do if he doesn't retire but I'd imagine some vets will be on their way out one way or another, just depends how many.I think that its a pretty easy fix and the speed factor may be a little overrated. David Harris' instincts should help him maintain a high level of play in the 4-3. Furthermore, I know 40 time isn't the most important thing, but he did run a 4.59 at the combine and instinct make you seem faster. Also, I know this may seem stupid, but I think as a DE Gholston could be great. In his first year, at the very least he would show more or his speed and athleticism in a more comfortable role. Besides those two, just a few athletic linebackers and a defensive tackle and we're in business. Also, another safety that can cover(perhaps merely a converted big corner-Lowery?) will free up Rhodes to make plays in the box.

[princefielder28]

The Newark Star-Ledger is reporting Brian Schottenheimer has emerged as the favorite be the Jets next head coach

Strange

[derza222]

I think that its a pretty easy fix and the speed factor may be a little overrated. David Harris' instincts should help him maintain a high level of play in the 4-3. Furthermore, I know 40 time isn't the most important thing, but he did run a 4.59 at the combine and instinct make you seem faster. Also, I know this may seem stupid, but I think as a DE Gholston could be great. In his first year, at the very least he would show more or his speed and athleticism in a more comfortable role. Besides those two, just a few athletic linebackers and a defensive tackle and we're in business. Also, another safety that can cover(perhaps merely a converted big corner-Lowery?) will free up Rhodes to make plays in the box.

There has to be a safety that can cover we can find this draft...maybe that guy from Mississippi State, Pegues? A move to the 4-3 gives us a lot of needs. I'd imagine guys like Coleman, maybe even Ellis or Bowens, and possibly Coles get cut if we change schemes just because they just don't fit and/or we have no money to sign free agents that fit the scheme. Then you're looking at trying to get a DT, WLB, FS, WR as all positions that legit need to be addressed. Hard to address them all right now, could work out alright though.

The Newark Star-Ledger is reporting Brian Schottenheimer has emerged as the favorite be the Jets next head coach

Strange

I'd cry.

[Crickett]

I'd cry.

I would too.

[nyjets5125]

now that the seasons over and this is a crucial offseason im coming back to the blogs haha...

for coach, i like rex ryan over spags just because i like the improvement our 3-4 is showing and dont think we should switch back, i like the foundation weve built and think we just need to expand on it, and rex ryan would be great for this, he blitzes a lot and very well-designed blitzes which we need, cuz later in the season we were getting no pressure and werent sending enough guys, also i could see kerry rhodes doing very well as our ed reed... i read were interviewing billick which i wouldnt mind...brian schottenheimer would just be terrible though, dont even like him as the OC

[Rob S]

one of you should do the forum mock

[josh07039]

one of you should do the forum mock
I would but I don't think I have the expertise or the attention span.

[FlutiesDropKick]

Im not possitive how much we have but by the looks of are players that are free agents, it dosnt look like we have many players leaving that take up much cap room except Favre and Barton
And heres a list of are FA just to show everyone

Eric Barton -------------Abram Elam
Bubba Franks -----------Brett Ratliff
Mike Nugent -----------David Clowney
Cody Spencer ----------Marques Murrell
CJ Mosley--------------- Wallace Wright
Ahmad Carroll------------ JR Reed
Tony Richardson--------- Ty Law
Jesse Chatman-----------Jay Feely
Hank Poteat

I'd keep around preseason stars Ratliff and Clowney. Barton and Nugent if we can get them on the cheap and I'd make the effort to keep around Richardon and probably Mosley who was a certainly doable backup.

[TimD]

Clowney, Ratliff, Mosley, Richardson, Poteat, and Elam should all be resigned. Should be interesting to see what happens with Feeley and Nugent tho

[FlutiesDropKick]

Clowney, Ratliff, Mosley, Richardson, Poteat, and Elam should all be resigned. Should be interesting to see what happens with Feeley and Nugent tho

yeah somehow I missed Elam. I don't know If I like him too much but playing a little bit of backer late in the year brings versatility even if we land another safety to go with Rhodes

[TimD]

yeah versatility and depth is always a good thing (especially guys like him who can play 2 positions). plus he's great on special teams. i think elam's impact for the jets is underrated

[thetedginnshow]

We HAVE to keep Nugent! He's a Buckeye!

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

I would too.

throw me on that boat as well. That would be the worst possible outcome IMO.

[derza222]

throw me on that boat as well. That would be the worst possible outcome IMO.

My initial reaction was it could get worse, but given our candidates I don't think so. Maybe if we hire Jagz purely in an attempt to get Favre to come back because of his connection.

If Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford all come out, do you guys think it's likely we go quarterback? I'd imagine it's quite possible one of them is available at 17. Who would you guys want out of the three?

[TimD]

If B-Shott is coach he seriously needs to rethink our offense. I wonder who the players want. Probably Spagz or Ryan.

[derza222]

If B-Shott is coach he seriously needs to rethink our offense. I wonder who the players want. Probably Spagz or Ryan.

I'd imagine Ryan, maybe Grimm. Not sure if the defensive guys want to go through a major scheme switch which is why I'm not sure if they really really want Spags. Ryan is similar, gets less pub, but still a good coach and runs a more similar scheme.

Also, not sure if anybody checked out the interview with Jenkins on nfl.com but that was pretty cool. He actually really put in a good word for Mangini which I thought was very interesting.

[thetedginnshow]

My initial reaction was it could get worse, but given our candidates I don't think so. Maybe if we hire Jagz purely in an attempt to get Favre to come back because of his connection.

If Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford all come out, do you guys think it's likely we go quarterback? I'd imagine it's quite possible one of them is available at 17. Who would you guys want out of the three?

Even if they were all available, the only one I'd want would be Sanchez. But again, unless the FO has changed their philosophy, I wouldn't expect him to be taken.

[derza222]

Even if they were all available, the only one I'd want would be Sanchez. But again, unless the FO has changed their philosophy, I wouldn't expect him to be taken.

Agreed on the second part, though Stafford has impressed me as well and given our uncertainty at the position I'd be alright giving him a look at 17 given his value would be pretty nice. He's got the tools along with some accuracy but his decision making bothers me at times. I wouldn't mind giving him a look to develop at 17 with our uncertain situation, at the moment I do prefer Sanchez though and I'm not a big Bradford guy.

[BroadwayJoe10]

If I could have any of them it would without a doubt be Stafford. He improved every year he was in college, performed well in bowl games, has the perfect frame and an absolute cannon for an arm. He reminds me a lot of Cutler actually.

That having been said, I would like to see what Clemens and Ratliff could do if they were given the same offensive schemes. Not to mention play behind our new offensive and with the running game.

I would love to see our team impliment a run-oriented attack with either Clemens or Ratliff and slowly give them more responsibility as they progressed. It worked very well for the pats with brady and cassel and the steelers with big ben...we have the defense and oline/tailbacks to do it.

[derza222]

If I could have any of them it would without a doubt be Stafford. He improved every year he was in college, performed well in bowl games, has the perfect frame and an absolute cannon for an arm. He reminds me a lot of Cutler actually.

That having been said, I would like to see what Clemens and Ratliff could do if they were given the same offensive schemes. Not to mention play behind our new offensive and with the running game.

I would love to see our team impliment a run-oriented attack with either Clemens or Ratliff and slowly give them more responsibility as they progressed. It worked very well for the pats with brady and cassel and the steelers with big ben...we have the defense and oline/tailbacks to do it.

Definitely agree that Stafford seems like Cutler to an extent, not sure how good that is though. I do really like him a lot I go back and forth with him and Sanchez.

A run-oriented attack is definitely appealing. I wouldn't mind adding a back in the mid rounds, maybe fourth or fifth, a guy with size to pound a little and take some carries. I'd love Washington to see more touches as well. Do think you give our defense a bit too much credit, but if we add the right pieces we should be solid enough to make it work relatively well and help the quarterbacks out a bit. I hope if we focus on defense and maybe find a wideout to stretch the field (though that's perhaps more of a luxury) in this draft.

[BroadwayJoe10]

Definitely agree that Stafford seems like Cutler to an extent, not sure how good that is though. I do really like him a lot I go back and forth with him and Sanchez.

A run-oriented attack is definitely appealing. I wouldn't mind adding a back in the mid rounds, maybe fourth or fifth, a guy with size to pound a little and take some carries. I'd love Washington to see more touches as well. Do think you give our defense a bit too much credit, but if we add the right pieces we should be solid enough to make it work relatively well and help the quarterbacks out a bit. I hope if we focus on defense and maybe find a wideout to stretch the field (though that's perhaps more of a luxury) in this draft.

I would love for a bigger back that could pound the defense, but it was hard enough finding enough carries for TJ and Leon. Hopefully without Favre we will be able to go to a more run-oriented offense.

Our defense was great the first 3/4 of the season and than after the denver game it was terrible. That could be do to Jenkins' injury or mangini overhauling the defensive play calling, but who knows.

I personally think that a WR is one of our top needs. We have absolutely no one that can get consistent downfield separation and that was very evident towards the end of the season. Once teams started keeping safeties or LBs in the 5 yard bubble to disrupt our short passing game, we were unable to do anything. I feel that a Jeremy Maclin or DHB should be our top priority. I understand we need another CB to pair with revis and another S, but i just think WR would have a bigger overall impact on our offense.

[josh07039]

I would love for a bigger back that could pound the defense, but it was hard enough finding enough carries for TJ and Leon. Hopefully without Favre we will be able to go to a more run-oriented offense.

Our defense was great the first 3/4 of the season and than after the denver game it was terrible. That could be do to Jenkins' injury or mangini overhauling the defensive play calling, but who knows.

I personally think that a WR is one of our top needs. We have absolutely no one that can get consistent downfield separation and that was very evident towards the end of the season. Once teams started keeping safeties or LBs in the 5 yard bubble to disrupt our short passing game, we were unable to do anything. I feel that a Jeremy Maclin or DHB should be our top priority. I understand we need another CB to pair with revis and another S, but i just think WR would have a bigger overall impact on our offense.I think finding carries wasn't so much the problem as our coaching staff forgetting that the team was at its best when we ran the ball 20+ times. If we get a coach that is interested in a run heavy offense we can pick up a mauler late in the draft just in case. Keep in mind, if TJ gets injured, we don't want Leon as our feature back. He is a phenomenal weapon, but he can't handle the load for an extended period.

I think our defense needs a few guys, but not too much. Unless of course we go back to 4-3, then we need a bit more help. With Jenkins we will have to be concerned with conditioning and motivation. After a disappointing season, who knows if he'll stop working and get fat again. We need to find someone that is a viable backup. Mosley is a good guy to have, but I don't want him playing a huge role.

As for WR, i think that is more of a luxury than a need. LC is definitley on a decline. Cotchery is clearly a great 2. We need more weapons, however, with the possibility of stuckey and clowney and brad smith(losing hope in him b/c he just isnt progressing much), we may have a good slot guy on our roster already who can stretch the field. Clowney showed a lot of explosiveness in the preseason and stuckey showed some promise during the beginning of the year. Keep in mind that with a tight end like Keller, he can stretch defenses deep because of his matchups. I just don't know if WR is an incredibly pressing need that needs to be addressed now, however, i wouldn't necessarily be upset if we took one(especially Britt).