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Scott Wright
11-09-2006, 08:31 AM
Discuss the Raiders here.

I'll start!

Do they need offensive line help bad, really bad or desperately? :D

jmanz
11-09-2006, 08:44 AM
Desperately. I've never seen such bad O-Line play I don't think. Davis needs to open up the pocket book this offseason.

njx9
11-09-2006, 08:48 AM
i can't wait for dumervil to overpower either one of your tackles this week.

any chance you'll cover the spread?

Scott Wright
11-09-2006, 08:54 AM
As I mentioned in my blog the other day it's kind of crazy that the Raiders o-line is so bad because they have invested draft picks there, including a lot of high ones. So if you ask me the problem then comes down to either coaching or scouting. I am inclined to say coaching isn't the problem because they have had two coaching staffs with the same problem and now there are Hall of Fame o-linemen trying to whip them into shape. That leaves poor scouting as the reason for me...

jmanz
11-09-2006, 08:55 AM
i can't wait for dumervil to overpower either one of your tackles this week.

any chance you'll cover the spread?

I see a replay of the steelers game comin :lol:

Komp
11-09-2006, 09:25 AM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

njx9
11-09-2006, 10:09 AM
i can't wait for dumervil to overpower either one of your tackles this week.

any chance you'll cover the spread?

I see a replay of the steelers game comin :lol:

which? i think the denver offense will collectively tyler brayton the raiders jerramy stevens of a defense. =P

jmanz
11-09-2006, 10:34 AM
i can't wait for dumervil to overpower either one of your tackles this week.

any chance you'll cover the spread?

I see a replay of the steelers game comin :lol:

which? i think the denver offense will collectively tyler brayton the raiders jerramy stevens of a defense. =P

lol good one....I guess I was refering to the raiders-steelers game but only in good fun. I'm sure it won't be a pretty sight, offensively anyways.

Komp
11-09-2006, 11:21 AM
What is the over/under for Denver's sack total anyways? 10?

slightlyaraiderfan
11-09-2006, 11:23 AM
Very nice, Oak vs Den this week and also me vs njx in fantasy football.

I would make a wager on these, if the Raiders didn't suck so badly.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 11:31 AM
Very nice, Oak vs Den this week and also me vs njx in fantasy football.

I would make a wager on these, if the Raiders didn't suck so badly.

hmmm, do you have a lot of the raiders players on your fantasy team?

slightlyaraiderfan
11-09-2006, 11:39 AM
Very nice, Oak vs Den this week and also me vs njx in fantasy football.

I would make a wager on these, if the Raiders didn't suck so badly.

hmmm, do you have a lot of the raiders players on your fantasy team?
I don't have any Raiders, but I do have Doug Gabriel though! My fantasy team isn't doing so great either, 11 out of 14. (njx last place)

njx9
11-09-2006, 11:41 AM
just because i counted on your ugly team to at least occasionally give jordan the ball... i mean, you'd think shell would realize that half of these games are out of reach before they start. =P

slightlyaraiderfan
11-09-2006, 11:52 AM
Put Lamont in this week, he's going to run over the Denver D.

njx9
11-09-2006, 11:53 AM
if by "run over" you mean "get 4 carries for 20 yards in the first quarter and then not be put back in the game" then yes, yes you're right.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 11:58 AM
Very nice, Oak vs Den this week and also me vs njx in fantasy football.

I would make a wager on these, if the Raiders didn't suck so badly.

hmmm, do you have a lot of the raiders players on your fantasy team?
I don't have any Raiders, but I do have Doug Gabriel though! My fantasy team isn't doing so great either, 11 out of 14. (njx last place)

Somehow I don't feel sorry for njx9 aka the raider basher :wink:

slightlyaraiderfan
11-09-2006, 11:59 AM
He's going to break stupid little Dumervil's face, just watch.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 12:09 PM
Not to mention Moss burning Champ for 2-3 touchdowns. 8)

njx9
11-09-2006, 12:14 PM
that would involve moss trying, which you should know by now won't happen

jmanz
11-09-2006, 12:17 PM
no doubt, can we trade him straight up for Javon? We could probably throw in Whitted for ya too.

portermvp84
11-09-2006, 01:21 PM
No because Whitted at least try give them randal Williams he's a waste.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 01:22 PM
No because Whitted at least try give them randal Williams he's a waste.

ok you convinced me, that works.

nobodyinparticular
11-09-2006, 01:23 PM
Not to mention Moss burning Champ for 2-3 touchdowns. 8)

You mean TDs dropped? I can't really argue with that. TDs caught? Doubtful. He didn't get up for last Denver game, what makes you think he'll get up for this one?

jmanz
11-09-2006, 01:28 PM
Not to mention Moss burning Champ for 2-3 touchdowns. 8)

You mean TDs dropped? I can't really argue with that. TDs caught? Doubtful. He didn't get up for last Denver game, what makes you think he'll get up for this one?

I was being most sarcastic. If the offense scored one touchdown in any fashion, I'd be surprised at this point.

portermvp84
11-09-2006, 01:40 PM
Lamont needs to get more yards last denver game he had around 60 thanks to those penalties. I wanna see a hundred yard game out of him.

nobodyinparticular
11-09-2006, 02:06 PM
As I mentioned in my blog the other day it's kind of crazy that the Raiders o-line is so bad because they have invested draft picks there, including a lot of high ones. So if you ask me the problem then comes down to either coaching or scouting. I am inclined to say coaching isn't the problem because they have had two coaching staffs with the same problem and now there are Hall of Fame o-linemen trying to whip them into shape. That leaves poor scouting as the reason for me...

I would say poor coaching actually. These guys do have talent. Just as Scott Wright about Robert Gallery and Jake Grove. (that would be you) And Langston Walker was very highly rated as well when we drafted him. Kevin Boothe has actually been playing well and Sims... Well, he actually was performing well under Kromer.

The Raiders' offensive line needs 1 of 2 things. They need more time. Or they need a new coaching staff. After going out and drafting Boothe and McQuistan this year, they've got 4 offensive linemen with less than 3 full years of service time, and a fifth with just a year or two more in Langston Walker. In those 3 years, Grove, Gallery and Walker have actually had 4 offensive line coaches. They had Aaron Kromer in 2004, Jim Colletto in 2005 and now they have Jackie Slater (Hall of Fame player, not coach) and Irv Eatman (Pro Bowl player, but not necessarily a good coach), not to mention Art Shell trying to jump in and "help" them out when he has the chance.

Under Kromer, the offensive line that consisted of Sims at LT, Brad Badger at LG, Adam Treu/Jake Grove at C, Ron Stone at RG and Robert Gallery the rookie at RT gave up only 30 sacks on the whole season--and that's with Mr. Immobility Jr. Kerry Collins at QB for every single game after halftime in Week 3. (Sr. being Drew Bledsoe) That was good for 6th in the league.

Then, under Jim Colletto, with the same personnell, the offensive line gave up a total of 45 sacks--that's 15 extra sacks, good for an extra 50%--dropping the unit down to 24th in the league, tied with such offensive line powerhouses as Cleveland and Arizona.

Now, under the "Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers" the Raiders have reached a total of 44 sacks halfway through the season. They have completely shifted the line around, but with such "great coaches" you would expect them to be able to at least get something out of little or no talent right? So far they have been able to get the least amount of results with nearly the same talent that Aaron Kromer and Jim Colletto had.

Oh, and did I mention that the Raiders ranked last in rushing yards and rushing attempts in 2004? They didn't even try to fool the opposing defenses that they were running the football, ranking 4th in passing attempts with 582.

So adding in the failed pass attempts that ended in sacks, they had the QB drop back 612 times. The sack rate per pass play was once every 20.4. That was definitely among the best in the league.

In 2005, the Raiders' offense was once again pass happy, ranking 6th in pass attempts with 591. They actually ranked 5th in pass plays when adding their sacks allowed into the equation. The sack rate per play under coach Jim Colletto dropped to a less than stellar 14.1. And once again, the Raiders ranked near last in the league in rushing attempts at 31, and 29th in rushing yards.

This year, under the "Hall of Famers and Pro Bowler" the Raiders rushing attack ranks middle of the pack, at 18 in yards per game and 23 in attempts. Certainly not a "grind-it-out" offense, but definitely an improvement on the ground over the last two years, but it certainly hasn't been fooling the opposing pass rushers. Ranking 2nd to last in pass attempts, the Raiders are giving up a sack once every 5.8 pass plays. That makes Jim Colletto's 24th ranked unit look like All-Pros.

But wait, these are nearly identical units... The only new player is Kevin Boothe, and he has been doing arguably the best job of all the 5 of them, so we can't really blame it on the talent, now can we? If we can't blame it on the talent the players have, we can't bring out the argument that the ineptitude of this offensive line is caused by poor scouting.

So assuming that you are correct Scott, and the Raiders' offensive line problems stem from one of two things, we must then assume that the Raiders have a poor offensive line because the Raiders' offensive line has poor coaching.

If you want visual evidence of this, watch the Raiders' offensive line during the game, particularly Robert Gallery and Jake Grove. They have had five different voices in their ears over the course of two and a half years. From the second they get set on the line to the end of the play, watch their faces--their eyes in particular. They are out there trying to think. It's like they have a calculus problem they are trying to work out in their heads. On the football field, especially on the offensive line, the last thing you should have to be doing is thinking. This is caused by two things. First, it would be caused by the previously stated lack of continuity in their coaches. And secondly, it would be caused by an extremely difficult style of coaching that they are attempting to learn this year. Likely, I would say it is a combination of both of these factors.

By these numbers, one could argue that the talent is not the problem, the talent is there because it is the same talent that was one of the best units in pass protection just two years ago, but rather that it is a problem with coaching. Thus, the best solution may not be the easy solution of draft or signing a completely new offensive line, but rather the tough solution of taking the time to let this unit get used to this coaching staff and style of blocking.

Xonraider
11-09-2006, 02:24 PM
firewalsh.blogspot.com

My blog!

Xonraider
11-09-2006, 02:28 PM
And NIP: I mentioned that on another forum, how Kromer actually had our so called offensive (more like girls line) line doing pretty good.

locseti
11-09-2006, 02:54 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 03:03 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.

njx9
11-09-2006, 03:05 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.

how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 03:20 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.

how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.

We'll just have to take a couple picks back to the house since our offense can't do jack. :D

nobodyinparticular
11-09-2006, 03:23 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.

how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.

I don't know about Sarf, but I know I could even get to Jake Plummer as long as those ********************************** on the Denver line didn't slide 3 guys over to take my knees out. I'm just a studmuffin like that.

njx9
11-09-2006, 03:27 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.

how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.

I don't know about Sarf, but I know I could even get to Jake Plummer as long as those ********************************** on the Denver line didn't slide 3 guys over to take my knees out. I'm just a studmuffin like that.

dang it. "we" does NOT refer to the raiders. =P just because my team thread sucks and i'm forced to post in yours...

nobodyinparticular
11-09-2006, 03:36 PM
Well we know the D will play well, probably even better than last week. But if we can't score on Seattle, I don't know how we are gonna score on Denver. Maybe Moss won't feel like playing hot potato this week....

As for the OL, I don't know enough about the position to really know what is wrong. My guess is the lack of coaching stability within the organization has adversely affected their development.

Denvers Defense is decimated with injuries...We have a chance, especially with the game being at home.

There is always a chance I spose.....we held them down decently earlier at their house.

how many points did you score again?

we could line up NIP and sarf at DE and probably still get pressure on walter.

I don't know about Sarf, but I know I could even get to Jake Plummer as long as those ********************************** on the Denver line didn't slide 3 guys over to take my knees out. I'm just a studmuffin like that.

dang it. "we" does NOT refer to the raiders. =P just because my team thread sucks and i'm forced to post in yours...

I know. I'm just making a point that it's not really saying much about the Raiders' offensive line since I could get the Broncos' offensive line. Geez... You totally ruined the joke by making me explain it.

njx9
11-09-2006, 03:54 PM
I know. I'm just making a point that it's not really saying much about the Raiders' offensive line since I could get the Broncos' offensive line. Geez... You totally ruined the joke by making me explain it.

muahahaha.

no, i won't act like that was intentional.

i don't know... if i remember right, keak thinks they'd see your knees coming from 20 miles away.

on the other hand, gallery could see you coming from that far out and he still wouldn't be able to stop the bull rush.

nobodyinparticular
11-09-2006, 04:00 PM
I know. I'm just making a point that it's not really saying much about the Raiders' offensive line since I could get the Broncos' offensive line. Geez... You totally ruined the joke by making me explain it.

muahahaha.

no, i won't act like that was intentional.

i don't know... if i remember right, keak thinks they'd see your knees coming from 20 miles away.

on the other hand, gallery could see you coming from that far out and he still wouldn't be able to stop the bull rush.

Ouch... You're mean...

Komp
11-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Yah I didn't know Denver had lots of injuries. Really its up to the OL and Moss. If Moss feels like showing up and the OL blocks 2 out of every 3 downs we will do well.

PS - Testing my new sig

Komp
11-09-2006, 05:18 PM
Nice, the Jack Tatum sig works...

locseti
11-09-2006, 05:18 PM
one things for sure : the Rats gameplan will be infinitely more intrical than ours; its gonna be up to our superior athletes to offset the Rats coaching prowess - and our offensive staffs lack there of.

Windy
11-09-2006, 05:26 PM
What do you guys think of Schweigert's play? A lot of mocks have us taking a safety early but I dont think he needs to be replaced yet

locseti
11-09-2006, 05:28 PM
If Rouse falls to us, Id prefer him over Stewie Shweigey

jmanz
11-09-2006, 05:31 PM
I think we should go elsewhere early on other than safety.

locseti
11-09-2006, 05:48 PM
i know we wont pick a safety that early, but I really like Rouse - He's a hitter not a quitter

jmanz
11-09-2006, 06:27 PM
i know we wont pick a safety that early, but I really like Rouse - He's a hitter not a quitter

I guess I haven't seen him play often enough to comment on him.

nobodyinparticular
11-09-2006, 07:57 PM
this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.

Komp
11-09-2006, 08:19 PM
I agree. I wouldn't mind going defense in the 1st rd and taking one of the elite DT/DE prospects [Gaines Adams, Branch, Woodley] and than taking a good OT/G in the 2nd, TE in the 3rd, grab a big hitter SS to come in for Nickel situations and maybe try to find some small school gems for some offensive skill positions.

I don't think we should use our early picks for skill positions on offense. Jordan has at least 2 years left in at RB [plus I'm a HUGE fan of his] and our WR is more a problem of dysfunction than it is a lack of skill at the position. TE is obviously lacking and has been for years. If we fix that OL we have a good enough offense to win games considering the way our defense is progressing. They will be even better next year with another year of experience plus a 1st rd stud DT/DE.

That's my two cents on next years draft....

locseti
11-09-2006, 08:26 PM
this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.

What if Rouse fell to the third or fourth round though, and was the best player available, regardless of what our team needs are, you have to pick the best player available, especially if its an upgrade IMO. Shweigy gets burnt alot and is not a real physical presence, Rouse seems to me to be a Sean Taylor type.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 11:07 PM
this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.

yup pretty much on the money I'd say.

Komp
11-09-2006, 11:18 PM
Yah, I know nothing about this Rouse player either. Like I said, I don't mind taking a physical DB in the 4th or later....but we need DL/OL/TE way before secondary, where we already have a lot of youth.

jmanz
11-09-2006, 11:30 PM
Yah, I know nothing about this Rouse player either. Like I said, I don't mind taking a physical DB in the 4th or later....but we need DL/OL/TE way before secondary, where we already have a lot of youth.

Help on the DL wouldn't be bad at all with the way teams have been running on us. And on the offensive side, where do I begin......

locseti
11-10-2006, 12:26 AM
Address OL in free agency, we've wasted enough draft picks on Olinemen and have a bunch of young Olinemen that can maybe learn from some proven vets. i hope we dont draft any Olinemen

Komp
11-10-2006, 01:09 AM
I definitely wouldn't risk a 1st rd pick on an OL, but if there is a Marcus McNeil type talent [I KNEW He'd be good for some reason] that drops to rd2, that would be hard to turn down. Where else do you go in rd2? WR or TE?

jmanz
11-10-2006, 09:54 PM
I'm not sure who's gonna be out there for free agents on the O-line but yeah that would be great if we could land someone. Also, if we could pick up a TE somewhat in the mold of a Joe Klopfenstein in the later rounds we'd be doing good. I think he's gonna be a good player in a couple years.

Vespasian
11-11-2006, 12:21 PM
Discuss the Raiders here.

I'll start!

Do they need offensive line help bad, really bad or desperately? :D

What is desperately Pat?

Vespasian
11-11-2006, 12:40 PM
As I mentioned in my blog the other day it's kind of crazy that the Raiders o-line is so bad because they have invested draft picks there, including a lot of high ones. So if you ask me the problem then comes down to either coaching or scouting. I am inclined to say coaching isn't the problem because they have had two coaching staffs with the same problem and now there are Hall of Fame o-linemen trying to whip them into shape. That leaves poor scouting as the reason for me...

I would say poor coaching actually. These guys do have talent. Just as Scott Wright about Robert Gallery and Jake Grove. (that would be you) And Langston Walker was very highly rated as well when we drafted him. Kevin Boothe has actually been playing well and Sims... Well, he actually was performing well under Kromer.

The Raiders' offensive line needs 1 of 2 things. They need more time. Or they need a new coaching staff. After going out and drafting Boothe and McQuistan this year, they've got 4 offensive linemen with less than 3 full years of service time, and a fifth with just a year or two more in Langston Walker. In those 3 years, Grove, Gallery and Walker have actually had 4 offensive line coaches. They had Aaron Kromer in 2004, Jim Colletto in 2005 and now they have Jackie Slater (Hall of Fame player, not coach) and Irv Eatman (Pro Bowl player, but not necessarily a good coach), not to mention Art Shell trying to jump in and "help" them out when he has the chance.

Under Kromer, the offensive line that consisted of Sims at LT, Brad Badger at LG, Adam Treu/Jake Grove at C, Ron Stone at RG and Robert Gallery the rookie at RT gave up only 30 sacks on the whole season--and that's with Mr. Immobility Jr. Kerry Collins at QB for every single game after halftime in Week 3. (Sr. being Drew Bledsoe) That was good for 6th in the league.

Then, under Jim Colletto, with the same personnell, the offensive line gave up a total of 45 sacks--that's 15 extra sacks, good for an extra 50%--dropping the unit down to 24th in the league, tied with such offensive line powerhouses as Cleveland and Arizona.

Now, under the "Hall of Famers and Pro Bowlers" the Raiders have reached a total of 44 sacks halfway through the season. They have completely shifted the line around, but with such "great coaches" you would expect them to be able to at least get something out of little or no talent right? So far they have been able to get the least amount of results with nearly the same talent that Aaron Kromer and Jim Colletto had.

Oh, and did I mention that the Raiders ranked last in rushing yards and rushing attempts in 2004? They didn't even try to fool the opposing defenses that they were running the football, ranking 4th in passing attempts with 582.

So adding in the failed pass attempts that ended in sacks, they had the QB drop back 612 times. The sack rate per pass play was once every 20.4. That was definitely among the best in the league.

In 2005, the Raiders' offense was once again pass happy, ranking 6th in pass attempts with 591. They actually ranked 5th in pass plays when adding their sacks allowed into the equation. The sack rate per play under coach Jim Colletto dropped to a less than stellar 14.1. And once again, the Raiders ranked near last in the league in rushing attempts at 31, and 29th in rushing yards.

This year, under the "Hall of Famers and Pro Bowler" the Raiders rushing attack ranks middle of the pack, at 18 in yards per game and 23 in attempts. Certainly not a "grind-it-out" offense, but definitely an improvement on the ground over the last two years, but it certainly hasn't been fooling the opposing pass rushers. Ranking 2nd to last in pass attempts, the Raiders are giving up a sack once every 5.8 pass plays. That makes Jim Colletto's 24th ranked unit look like All-Pros.

But wait, these are nearly identical units... The only new player is Kevin Boothe, and he has been doing arguably the best job of all the 5 of them, so we can't really blame it on the talent, now can we? If we can't blame it on the talent the players have, we can't bring out the argument that the ineptitude of this offensive line is caused by poor scouting.

So assuming that you are correct Scott, and the Raiders' offensive line problems stem from one of two things, we must then assume that the Raiders have a poor offensive line because the Raiders' offensive line has poor coaching.

If you want visual evidence of this, watch the Raiders' offensive line during the game, particularly Robert Gallery and Jake Grove. They have had five different voices in their ears over the course of two and a half years. From the second they get set on the line to the end of the play, watch their faces--their eyes in particular. They are out there trying to think. It's like they have a calculus problem they are trying to work out in their heads. On the football field, especially on the offensive line, the last thing you should have to be doing is thinking. This is caused by two things. First, it would be caused by the previously stated lack of continuity in their coaches. And secondly, it would be caused by an extremely difficult style of coaching that they are attempting to learn this year. Likely, I would say it is a combination of both of these factors.

By these numbers, one could argue that the talent is not the problem, the talent is there because it is the same talent that was one of the best units in pass protection just two years ago, but rather that it is a problem with coaching. Thus, the best solution may not be the easy solution of draft or signing a completely new offensive line, but rather the tough solution of taking the time to let this unit get used to this coaching staff and style of blocking.

Excellent post NIP!

However, I disagree to some extent. Given your research I'll go with the notion that the coaching has a negative impact upon the Oline. With that being said I can't say that any of these guys is a top flight talent. IMO they have taken a step backwards but I think that we have seen them at their peak. I'm not holding my breath for any of these guys develop into a great player.

Also, we've all seen highly touted draft propects who didn't pan out in the NFL so just because they were 'highly touted' means nothing. Therefore I think that scouting does play a part in this. A good scout looks beyond the hype and KNOWS quality players. Players that have a better than average shot of making it in the NFL. Given the number of busts that the Raiders have produced I think its fair to say that our scouting staff is rather suspect.

Vespasian
11-11-2006, 12:46 PM
this team has way too many needs elsewhere to think about anywhere in the secondary. Schwig has been playing very well and everyone in the secondary is growing. Basically, we could use a NT, a DE and minorly (as a luxury) a strongside LB upgrade. Other than that, the defense is fine. The offense is the one to worry about. Look at RB, TE, WR, WR, RT, FB. (note: if McQuistan is going to move to RT, then we need another OG) We may need a center, allowing Grove to move to OG.

Agreed.

We have too many needs elsewhere to start thinking about another DB early.

Our defense is doing well but we suck at stopping the run so for my money I'd invest in a DT long before another DB.

Vespasian
11-11-2006, 12:49 PM
Address OL in free agency, we've wasted enough draft picks on Olinemen and have a bunch of young Olinemen that can maybe learn from some proven vets. i hope we dont draft any Olinemen

that's a great idea in principle but who do we go after? Where are the stud lineman that are FA's this year? There aren't any, so while the idea may be sound (even though we haven't really been succesful at it) with no real quality people available we're gonna need to look somewhere else for help. Which means either a trade or through the draft.

locseti
11-11-2006, 02:29 PM
Address OL in free agency, we've wasted enough draft picks on Olinemen and have a bunch of young Olinemen that can maybe learn from some proven vets. i hope we dont draft any Olinemen

that's a great idea in principle but who do we go after? Where are the stud lineman that are FA's this year? There aren't any, so while the idea may be sound (even though we haven't really been succesful at it) with no real quality people available we're gonna need to look somewhere else for help. Which means either a trade or through the draft.

There may not be any marquee names like a Steve Hutchinson out there, but Im sure some proven veterans will be available. There always are.

11-11-2006, 02:30 PM
Address OL in free agency, we've wasted enough draft picks on Olinemen and have a bunch of young Olinemen that can maybe learn from some proven vets. i hope we dont draft any Olinemen

that's a great idea in principle but who do we go after? Where are the stud lineman that are FA's this year? There aren't any, so while the idea may be sound (even though we haven't really been succesful at it) with no real quality people available we're gonna need to look somewhere else for help. Which means either a trade or through the draft.

Eric Steinbach will be available.

locseti
11-11-2006, 02:41 PM
Vespian - chew on these OL names that are slated to be FA's next year.

Max Starks, OT Steelers (starting tackle for a super bowl champion, 6'8 337lbs)
Leonard Davis, OT Arizona Cardinals (mountain of a man)
Mike Gandy, OT Buffalo Bills (relaitvely young, proven blocker for Mcgahee)
Roman Oben, SD
Shane Locklear, SEA
Floyd Womack, SEA
Todd Steussie, STL
Eric Steinbach, CIN
Jordan Black, KC
Chris Gray, SEA

All these names I've listed are unrestricted free agents except for Locklear and Starks. All these names would also be upgrades.

nobodyinparticular
11-11-2006, 03:00 PM
Vespian - chew on these OL names that are slated to be FA's next year.

Max Starks, OT Steelers (starting tackle for a super bowl champion, 6'8 337lbs)
Leonard Davis, OT Arizona Cardinals (mountain of a man)
Mike Gandy, OT Buffalo Bills (relaitvely young, proven blocker for Mcgahee)
Roman Oben, SD
Shane Locklear, SEA
Floyd Womack, SEA
Todd Steussie, STL
Eric Steinbach, CIN
Jordan Black, KC
Chris Gray, SEA

All these names I've listed are unrestricted free agents except for Locklear and Starks. All these names would also be upgrades.

The only nameon there who is worthwhile is Eric Steinbach. I would love to stick him at LG next to Gallery and get rid of Sims' massive contract. Other than that, those guys are pretty pedestrian.

locseti
11-11-2006, 03:59 PM
Starks and Davis are big veterans that have talent. Gandy is by no means an elite player, but he is a solid starter. Oben is a seasoned vet. Steinbach will cost a pretty penny, but it would be worth it. And Locklear is a solid starter as well. The rest are certainly pedestrian players, but IMO would be an upgrade over our current starters. The point is, we have to do something come offseason, cause our guys are not getting it done.

Don Killuminati
11-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Davis might re-find his groove after being moved back inside to guard. I'd definitely give him a shot.

Don Killuminati
11-11-2006, 04:07 PM
As I mentioned in my blog the other day it's kind of crazy that the Raiders o-line is so bad because they have invested draft picks there, including a lot of high ones. So if you ask me the problem then comes down to either coaching or scouting. I am inclined to say coaching isn't the problem because they have had two coaching staffs with the same problem and now there are Hall of Fame o-linemen trying to whip them into shape. That leaves poor scouting as the reason for me...

Great players do not necessarily great coaches make.

We never should have let Aaron Kromer get away.

nobodyinparticular
11-11-2006, 05:06 PM
Starks and Davis are big veterans that have talent. Gandy is by no means an elite player, but he is a solid starter. Oben is a seasoned vet. Steinbach will cost a pretty penny, but it would be worth it. And Locklear is a solid starter as well. The rest are certainly pedestrian players, but IMO would be an upgrade over our current starters. The point is, we have to do something come offseason, cause our guys are not getting it done.

Starks was benched. He's washed up. As is Roman Oben.

nobodyinparticular
11-11-2006, 05:15 PM
Davis might re-find his groove after being moved back inside to guard. I'd definitely give him a shot.

He and Steinbach are the only guys to whom I would give any amount of money. But only to play offensive guard. Both of them would be fine additions, but with Kevin Boothe playing so well, I can't see us grabbing two of them. We've got McQuistan who may or may not be in the process of being groomed to play RT.

On a side note, does anyone know where Aaron Kromer is right now?

Raiderz4Life
11-11-2006, 06:45 PM
i know this is way off topic but...do any of you guys who still play football have the cutters gaunlet gloves?

locseti
11-11-2006, 11:20 PM
Starks and Davis are big veterans that have talent. Gandy is by no means an elite player, but he is a solid starter. Oben is a seasoned vet. Steinbach will cost a pretty penny, but it would be worth it. And Locklear is a solid starter as well. The rest are certainly pedestrian players, but IMO would be an upgrade over our current starters. The point is, we have to do something come offseason, cause our guys are not getting it done.

Starks was benched. He's washed up. As is Roman Oben.

The Steelers also benched Mcfadden, who they just signed to a fat multiyear extension...Does this mean he's washed up? And Starks is back starting. They're having a bad year, just like us, Cowher's just seeing what he has.

locseti
11-11-2006, 11:24 PM
I dont see how he can be washed up after just 3 yrs in the league...Anyway, dont mean to argue, GO RAIDERS - BEAT DENVER!!

slightlyaraiderfan
11-12-2006, 02:29 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

njx9
11-12-2006, 02:35 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

heh, the raiders can't even get televised in california :)

slightlyaraiderfan
11-12-2006, 02:43 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

heh, the raiders can't even get televised in california :)
well, the 2 times the games were televised in la; they won. so..

locseti
11-12-2006, 02:54 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

heh, the raiders can't even get televised in california :)
well, the 2 times the games were televised in la; they won. so..

Wait, Im from Norcal, but im in LA for the wknd and am planning on watching the game tomorrow while my girl goes out for lunch w/ friends...is the game gonna be blacked out?? I had to sit at the bar tonite and watch my beloved Ducks get served up a slice by USC. Needless to say I was surrounded by a bunch of Trojan fans...I need to salvage my wknd by watching the Raiders play, say it aint so!

slightlyaraiderfan
11-12-2006, 02:59 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

heh, the raiders can't even get televised in california :)
well, the 2 times the games were televised in la; they won. so..

Wait, Im from Norcal, but im in LA for the wknd and am planning on watching the game tomorrow while my girl goes out for lunch w/ friends...is the game gonna be blacked out?? I had to sit at the bar tonite and watch my beloved Ducks get served up a slice by USC. Needless to say I was surrounded by a bunch of Trojan fans...I need to salvage my wknd by watching the Raiders play, say it aint so!
I checked the guide earlier, and it wont be shown on regular tv.

Komp
11-12-2006, 03:03 AM
Why don't you just go to a sports bar or something?

njx9
11-12-2006, 03:05 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

heh, the raiders can't even get televised in california :)
well, the 2 times the games were televised in la; they won. so..

every dog has its day. and then ben roethlisberger occasionally gives it another one.

locseti
11-12-2006, 03:06 AM
PS - Nate Longshore is garbage.

locseti
11-12-2006, 03:10 AM
Dammit, i'm not getting the game on tv.

heh, the raiders can't even get televised in california :)
well, the 2 times the games were televised in la; they won. so..

Wait, Im from Norcal, but im in LA for the wknd and am planning on watching the game tomorrow while my girl goes out for lunch w/ friends...is the game gonna be blacked out?? I had to sit at the bar tonite and watch my beloved Ducks get served up a slice by USC. Needless to say I was surrounded by a bunch of Trojan fans...I need to salvage my wknd by watching the Raiders play, say it aint so!
I checked the guide earlier, and it wont be shown on regular tv.

I bet they play Charger games down here huh...Wait, SD is playing in Cincy. What game are they gonna show?

locseti
11-12-2006, 03:13 AM
Why don't you just go to a sports bar or something?

Ya Ill go to the bar and demand they put on the Raider game ! "But sir, that game isnt being televised down here" "I dont care dammit! Put on the Raider game!"

rainbeaukid2
11-12-2006, 03:40 AM
PS - Nate Longshore is garbage.

he is normally pretty good, dont know how he did today though

Komp
11-12-2006, 11:40 AM
Why don't you just go to a sports bar or something?

Ya Ill go to the bar and demand they put on the Raider game ! "But sir, that game isnt being televised down here" "I dont care dammit! Put on the Raider game!"

Generally most sports bars will have satellite or NFL Sunday Ticket, and as a paying customer there is no reason why they wouldn't switch one TV out of the 25+ they have in the bar to a game you want to watch [if it's a good place, they will have every game on simultaneously anyways]. LA must have a few good places to watch football.

jmanz
11-12-2006, 12:05 PM
I'm happy its televised up north!

nobodyinparticular
11-12-2006, 01:41 PM
2 hours, 20 minutes til gametime....

locseti
11-12-2006, 02:04 PM
im in santa monica, any suggestions?

locseti
11-12-2006, 03:16 PM
Man, Im watching the Bengals and Chargers play right now and Eric Steinbach is a beast. You dont hear the announcers call out a Olinemens name that often, but hes been making key block after key block. Thats who we should target this offseason for sure.

rainbeaukid2
11-12-2006, 03:37 PM
Man, Im watching the Bengals and Chargers play right now and Eric Steinbach is a beast. You dont hear the announcers call out a Olinemens name that often, but hes been making key block after key block. Thats who we should target this offseason for sure.

the raiders will have to offer him a ton of money as he will probably be the most highly sought after OL in FA this year.

locseti
11-12-2006, 03:52 PM
Man, Im watching the Bengals and Chargers play right now and Eric Steinbach is a beast. You dont hear the announcers call out a Olinemens name that often, but hes been making key block after key block. Thats who we should target this offseason for sure.

the raiders will have to offer him a ton of money as he will probably be the most highly sought after OL in FA this year.

Ya, well Al Better pony up the dough because if we cant protect our playmakers, those invesments wont yield anything.

locseti
11-12-2006, 03:54 PM
Steinbach just blew up another Charger

locseti
11-12-2006, 05:08 PM
DId Janikowski really just hit a 58 yarder?

bernbabybern820
11-12-2006, 05:09 PM
DId Janikowski really just hit a 58 yarder?

55 yarder

portermvp84
11-12-2006, 06:10 PM
Way to go to Randal Williams he's actually doing something other then dropping passes. I think we could see an upset here.

jmanz
11-12-2006, 08:09 PM
man, tough loss there. I didn't get to see the first three quarters but the last one was painful. Defense played well again, Fabian had two picks, should have been three. Can't believe they didn't overturn that on replay...

portermvp84
11-12-2006, 08:10 PM
Can somebody tell me how we fumble two times on two straight drives?

njx9
11-12-2006, 09:05 PM
man, tough loss there. I didn't get to see the first three quarters but the last one was painful. Defense played well again, Fabian had two picks, should have been three. Can't believe they didn't overturn that on replay...

what happened? i didn't get to see the game.

jmanz
11-12-2006, 09:23 PM
man, tough loss there. I didn't get to see the first three quarters but the last one was painful. Defense played well again, Fabian had two picks, should have been three. Can't believe they didn't overturn that on replay...

what happened? i didn't get to see the game.

Plummer threw a bad one over near the sideline. Washington jumped up for the int, got one foot down and the other came down real close to the sideline. They called it incomplete on the field but after the replay, it was pretty clear he was in. Even the unbiased anouncers were stunned when they let the play stand. It was 4th down after that play so after the punt, they probably didn't lose that much yardage anyways but it would have been a momentum changer in the 4th quarter.

jmanz
11-12-2006, 09:46 PM
So how did Walter look the first three quarters? The announcers commented that he was holding on to the ball too long in the 4th quarter.

Komp
11-12-2006, 10:02 PM
Yah I didn't watch the game either. I'm curious to see hear from the guys on here how we did. Sounds like the OL and Walsh failed us again in the 2nd half. I looked at the stats and our running game didn't do anything, granted its against Denver, but still.

So guys, reviews?

portermvp84
11-12-2006, 11:28 PM
Defense played good Fabian Washington almost had three picks last one both feet were in i think the refs were blind.

jmanz
11-12-2006, 11:32 PM
Defense played good Fabian Washington almost had three picks last one both feet were in i think the refs were blind.

how about walter though?

NIN1984
11-13-2006, 12:43 AM
Ahhhhhhhh we have no offense at all they can't do anything right!!!

Rob Ryan should kick Tom Walsh in the nuts

slightlyaraiderfan
11-13-2006, 01:55 AM
So close..

Another good defensive effort gone to waste.

locseti
11-13-2006, 02:19 AM
Ryan should be the HC, hire Fassel to run the offense. Its pretty clear that the players repond to Ryan

Don Killuminati
11-13-2006, 10:00 AM
On a side note, does anyone know where Aaron Kromer is right now?

Back with Gruden.

http://www.buccaneers.com/team/coachdetail.aspx?listid=coaches&coach=Kromer,Aaron

jmanz
11-13-2006, 11:30 AM
Just think how different our record would be if we had a little offense this year.

Komp
11-13-2006, 12:21 PM
Yah we've definitely lost some closer games this year. Just imagine how good the defense would play if the time of possession was 50/50 and they weren't always defending a short field. :shock:

Number 10
11-13-2006, 01:42 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?

jmanz
11-13-2006, 01:54 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?

Well Washington is playing pretty well of late, actually both corners are. Huff is still learning how to play in this league. He'll gain valuable experience each game he plays. I have no problems with those draft picks.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-13-2006, 01:54 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?
Fab has been playing great this year(did good last year too, butjust did get the INTs), Huff is playing alright...he will come along, once he fully understands his role. We are building a strong defense, and these two will play a huge role in that.

jmanz
11-13-2006, 04:25 PM
Wouldn't that drive Al crazy if in the future we were winning with a grind it out, ball control offense with a tough defense that doesn't give up many points?

nobodyinparticular
11-13-2006, 04:27 PM
Ryan should be the HC, hire Fassel to run the offense. Its pretty clear that the players repond to Ryan

That's certainly a solid idea...

I know this is heresy, but I'm starting to wonder if the Raiders need to get rid of all the Raider HOFers who are position coaches right now...

nobodyinparticular
11-13-2006, 04:27 PM
On a side note, does anyone know where Aaron Kromer is right now?

Back with Gruden.

http://www.buccaneers.com/team/coachdetail.aspx?listid=coaches&coach=Kromer,Aaron

Darn that Gruden guy...

nobodyinparticular
11-13-2006, 04:32 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?

1) I think they are doing fairly well
2) Absolutely

During the 2005 draft, I was absolutely stunned and extremely irritated (to put it mildly, just ask njx) that the Raiders took Fabian Washington over a number of key players. However, Fabio played pretty well last year and has played even better this year. He seems to have a slight problem with injuries (calf, hip, hamstring...) but he's shutting down the WRs and he's getting the interceptions.

As for Huff, he's been an above average safety for us so far, but yesterday he made about 3 or 4 key hits in the game. A couple of them were absolutely huge stops on 3rd and shorts where he came up and stopped the running backs in their tracks each time to force the 4th down, and another where he laid a nice hit on a receiver right when the ball got there. A developing presence like that can really help to shut off the middle of the field. If that happens, it plays right into the hands of our CBs and allows Ryan to let Morrison blitz or freelance a little more.

Kurve
11-13-2006, 04:43 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?

Well Washington is playing pretty well of late, actually both corners are. Huff is still learning how to play in this league. He'll gain valuable experience each game he plays. I have no problems with those draft picks.

Washington played pretty well this week but id have to say Huff played very well this week as well yeah he hasnt come up with INTs and what not but he really has played well with some great hits this guy definatly will be a huge player down the road for us and being a rookie he played extremely well yesterday!

locseti
11-13-2006, 04:44 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?

1) I think they are doing fairly well
2) Absolutely

During the 2005 draft, I was absolutely stunned and extremely irritated (to put it mildly, just ask njx) that the Raiders took Fabian Washington over a number of key players. However, Fabio played pretty well last year and has played even better this year. He seems to have a slight problem with injuries (calf, hip, hamstring...) but he's shutting down the WRs and he's getting the interceptions.

As for Huff, he's been an above average safety for us so far, but yesterday he made about 3 or 4 key hits in the game. A couple of them were absolutely huge stops on 3rd and shorts where he came up and stopped the running backs in their tracks each time to force the 4th down, and another where he laid a nice hit on a receiver right when the ball got there. A developing presence like that can really help to shut off the middle of the field. If that happens, it plays right into the hands of our CBs and allows Ryan to let Morrison blitz or freelance a little more.

Did you just call him Fabio?? haha, I am completely satisfied with those picks, (although I was skeptical during the actual draft) because solid DB's are so hard to come by in this league...That position is right up there with quarterback on the degre of difficulty scale - they are so often playing all alone on an island (especially in our heavy man-to-man emphasis under Coach Ryans scheme.) I can just imagine what kind of lopsided affairs our games would have been without the solid play of Fabian and Huff...I only saw Fabian get burned one time this yr, and that was against Super Bowl MVP Deion Branch...I think overall thats pretty damn good.

Xonraider
11-13-2006, 05:37 PM
What's your take on Huff and Washington? Are you guys glad to have spent first rounders on D-Backs?

Washington and Huff are part key part for the young developing defense we have. Washington has been outstanding in coverage and seems to have that "ball-hawking" ability he didn't have last year and it shows with his three.. should be four.. interceptions. His hip movement is just outstanding. I remember this play in the Seattle gave he was about 7 yards well behind Branch and he just read the pass and moved terrifically to knock the pass out. I also remember how he showed he just wasn't a weak guy in last years game when he managed to hit Plaxico some times and forced incompletions. He has been a shut down corner, and honestly I did like it when we drafted him.

Huff is looking like a very good player, and like my boy NIP said, his presence is shown in the middle of the field with some good hits forcing incompletions. He just needs to tune up that playmaking and ball hawking ability a notch to become a really good safety. I'm expecting him to be a pro bowler in a few years from now.

Windy
11-13-2006, 05:44 PM
I hope Al realizes Ryan should be our coach. He is a true raider

NIN1984
11-13-2006, 06:02 PM
Fabian Washington is playing really good and so is Nnamdi Asomugha they are playing better than Woodson and Blowtime

slightlyaraiderfan
11-13-2006, 06:05 PM
I hope Al realizes Ryan should be our coach. He is a true raider
Yeah, his players are really responding to him. Imagine if they had that kind of motivation on offense. :shock: (still would need the play-calling though)

locseti
11-13-2006, 06:59 PM
OK guys, if we have the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd overall pick in next years draft, who do you think we will take? Im assuming Michael Bush and AD are going to enter, so they are available. Im not necessarily asking you who you think we should take, (but you can include that as well) but who you think the organization will take...Can you see us giving up on Walter and taking Brady if we have the number one pick? Or can you see us taking another top Tackle and selecting Joe Thomas if we have the number 3? What about giving up on Lamont and taking Bush or AD? Calvin Johnson seems like a prospect that Al would get all googely eyed over, where does he stand??

Can we pass on a possible pro bowler like Brady Quinn? This is shaping up to be a very interesting draft and I think we all can agree on hoping that we dont take Joe Thomas, regardless of where we draft in the top 3 (I think its pretty clear we'll be drafting in the top 3.)

raiderfan4life
11-13-2006, 07:09 PM
What about Asomugha in the 1st round back in 2003. He is a very good DB for us and he got his 4th int. this year.

Xonraider
11-13-2006, 07:27 PM
OK guys, if we have the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd overall pick in next years draft, who do you think we will take? Im assuming Michael Bush and AD are going to enter, so they are available. Im not necessarily asking you who you think we should take, (but you can include that as well) but who you think the organization will take...Can you see us giving up on Walter and taking Brady if we have the number one pick? Or can you see us taking another top Tackle and selecting Joe Thomas if we have the number 3? What about giving up on Lamont and taking Bush or AD? Calvin Johnson seems like a prospect that Al would get all googely eyed over, where does he stand??

Can we pass on a possible pro bowler like Brady Quinn? This is shaping up to be a very interesting draft and I think we all can agree on hoping that we dont take Joe Thomas, regardless of where we draft in the top 3 (I think its pretty clear we'll be drafting in the top 3.)

Bush in the top 3 :lol:

Maybe AP.. I can see it.

Brady Quinn :lol:

Joe Thomas? No way we draft another OL early. Al probably thinks its a pretty bad idea.

locseti
11-13-2006, 07:43 PM
OK guys, if we have the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd overall pick in next years draft, who do you think we will take? Im assuming Michael Bush and AD are going to enter, so they are available. Im not necessarily asking you who you think we should take, (but you can include that as well) but who you think the organization will take...Can you see us giving up on Walter and taking Brady if we have the number one pick? Or can you see us taking another top Tackle and selecting Joe Thomas if we have the number 3? What about giving up on Lamont and taking Bush or AD? Calvin Johnson seems like a prospect that Al would get all googely eyed over, where does he stand??

Can we pass on a possible pro bowler like Brady Quinn? This is shaping up to be a very interesting draft and I think we all can agree on hoping that we dont take Joe Thomas, regardless of where we draft in the top 3 (I think its pretty clear we'll be drafting in the top 3.)

Bush in the top 3 :lol:

Maybe AP.. I can see it.

Brady Quinn :lol:

Joe Thomas? No way we draft another OL early. Al probably thinks its a pretty bad idea.

Hey, our organization has made some pretty questionable choices (remember when we selected a kicker in the first round? 2 picks later, Shaun Alexander was taken) ... I said we can prolly all agree on hoping we dont take Thomas. Our organization is a different story.

And Bush is a Hog!! If he doesent get injured, he wins the Heisman Trophy and Louisville beats Rutgers on their way to an undefeated season and a BCS National Championship Title.

And AD is the moniker for Peterson, short for "all day"

Do you think we take him?

locseti
11-13-2006, 07:43 PM
So if we have the number one, you think we draft CJ huh.

Kurve
11-13-2006, 08:26 PM
if we get the number 1 overall pick i hope we trade it down i mean cj would be a pick i can see al doing but i hope trade down 3 - 5 spots pick up adams or branch and picking up few high picks with it

locseti
11-13-2006, 09:00 PM
This is what I think we should do as well, but can almost gurantee it wont happen...

On another note, has anyone heard the comments by Walter after the game yesterday?? They're right on target!!! -

ALAMEDA, Calif. -- Art Shell took issue with quarterback Andrew Walter's criticisms of the Oakland Raiders' struggling offense and appears ready to make a switch back to Aaron Brooks.

Walter took shots at coordinator Tom Walsh's offense after Sunday's 17-13 loss to Denver, saying there is not enough "depth" in the playbook, the offense was too predictable, and that the team needed to utilize more quick-developing plays than five- and seven-step drops.

"We need to make it more complex," Walter said, referring to the Raiders' playbook. "I'd like more swing routes, flat routes, short stuff. There are certain things I'd like to see."

This is the exact thing we have been talking about all year!! Man, this guy is smart. You guys really should read this article from ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2660848

The only bad thing is that Art Shell got offended and is probably going to sit Walter for speaking his mind, and making suggestions that could really help the team! Shell is such a lackwit

Kurve
11-13-2006, 09:25 PM
This is what I think we should do as well, but can almost gurantee it wont happen...

On another note, has anyone heard the comments by Walter after the game yesterday?? They're right on target!!! -

ALAMEDA, Calif. -- Art Shell took issue with quarterback Andrew Walter's criticisms of the Oakland Raiders' struggling offense and appears ready to make a switch back to Aaron Brooks.

Walter took shots at coordinator Tom Walsh's offense after Sunday's 17-13 loss to Denver, saying there is not enough "depth" in the playbook, the offense was too predictable, and that the team needed to utilize more quick-developing plays than five- and seven-step drops.

"We need to make it more complex," Walter said, referring to the Raiders' playbook. "I'd like more swing routes, flat routes, short stuff. There are certain things I'd like to see."

This is the exact thing we have been talking about all year!! Man, this guy is smart. You guys really should read this article from ESPN.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2660848

The only bad thing is that Art Shell got offended and is probably going to sit Walter for speaking his mind, and making suggestions that could really help the team! Shell is such a lackwit

yeah i would somewhat agree with him as well Tom Walsh has been terrible as a OC not sure id say its all his fault or the fault of shell not expecting more out of his OC. I wouldnt take away the full blame on walters either he did mess up 2 snaps that caused turnovers in crucial times he also holds on the ball way to long he needs to make the decisions much faster and have that ball out. I would think he would do much better with a OC that designs the playbook to walters benifits.

locseti
11-13-2006, 09:34 PM
yes, i would say we have to adjust the play calls to cater to our strengths...Adjustment is a word that is obviously not in Walsh's vocabulary.

Komp
11-13-2006, 10:43 PM
We should either draft a DE or DT with our first pick. Then OL/RB/TE/WR [get the best player available] and maybe another DLineman or LB for depth.

If we get the 1st/2nd pick, we should absolutely trade down within the top5-10 and get another pick in the 2nd or something. It's going to be a really good draft for RB's and DLineman so we should take advantage of that.

Namy
11-13-2006, 10:50 PM
We should either draft a DE or DT with our first pick. Then OL/RB/TE/WR [get the best player available] and maybe another DLineman or LB for depth.

If we get the 1st/2nd pick, we should absolutely trade down within the top5-10 and get another pick in the 2nd or something. It's going to be a really good draft for RB's and DLineman so we should take advantage of that.
You need OLinemen. After watching that game, I kinda felt sorry for Andrew Walter. He looks like a potentially solid QB but he gets little time to throw, and he is right.. your playcalling was predictable.

locseti
11-13-2006, 10:54 PM
We should either draft a DE or DT with our first pick. Then OL/RB/TE/WR [get the best player available] and maybe another DLineman or LB for depth.

If we get the 1st/2nd pick, we should absolutely trade down within the top5-10 and get another pick in the 2nd or something. It's going to be a really good draft for RB's and DLineman so we should take advantage of that.

If we have the 1st overall pick, 1. there is no way we pick a DT or DE and 2. No way in hell Al Davis trades it away, definitely not his style (though I certainly think it would be the best thing to do)

bernbabybern820
11-14-2006, 08:37 AM
if we dont sign a big name o-lineman free agent in the offseason we better draft a lineman in the first or second round.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 08:52 AM
if we dont sign a big name o-lineman free agent in the offseason we better draft a lineman in the first or second round.

I tend to agree with you.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 10:33 AM
By the way, no Gonzo this week for the Chiefs. Now, if we can just stop L J

portermvp84
11-14-2006, 01:00 PM
Theres a good chance that we can stop LJ after all we held Tatum Bell t only 36 yards.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-14-2006, 01:05 PM
Theres a good chance that we can stop LJ after all we held Tatum Bell t only 36 yards.
They're totally different type of running backs, our defense has a lot of speed...so they were able to contain Tatum this time. I don't see us holding LJ to only 36 yards or anywhere near that.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 01:18 PM
Yeah we are gonna have to make some gang tackles on L J. That guy is just an animal. He's the type of runner that can wear down defenses and that can be trouble if our offense goes 3 and out almost every time.

portermvp84
11-14-2006, 01:23 PM
I could see us doing it our defense has been on a roll, I've been happy with the job Derrick Burgess and Warren Sapp have done.

Komp
11-14-2006, 01:34 PM
We should either draft a DE or DT with our first pick. Then OL/RB/TE/WR [get the best player available] and maybe another DLineman or LB for depth.

If we get the 1st/2nd pick, we should absolutely trade down within the top5-10 and get another pick in the 2nd or something. It's going to be a really good draft for RB's and DLineman so we should take advantage of that.
You need OLinemen. After watching that game, I kinda felt sorry for Andrew Walter. He looks like a potentially solid QB but he gets little time to throw, and he is right.. your playcalling was predictable.

No way we take another OL with a top5 pick while still trying to fix Gallery. I have no problem taking one in the 2nd rd/3rd rd. If you regularly read this thread you'd know I advocate change on the Oakland OL in the upcoming offseason.

And yes we need a new OC NOW...

portermvp84
11-14-2006, 01:53 PM
What are the chances we win this game?

Xonraider
11-14-2006, 02:28 PM
OK guys, if we have the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd overall pick in next years draft, who do you think we will take? Im assuming Michael Bush and AD are going to enter, so they are available. Im not necessarily asking you who you think we should take, (but you can include that as well) but who you think the organization will take...Can you see us giving up on Walter and taking Brady if we have the number one pick? Or can you see us taking another top Tackle and selecting Joe Thomas if we have the number 3? What about giving up on Lamont and taking Bush or AD? Calvin Johnson seems like a prospect that Al would get all googely eyed over, where does he stand??

Can we pass on a possible pro bowler like Brady Quinn? This is shaping up to be a very interesting draft and I think we all can agree on hoping that we dont take Joe Thomas, regardless of where we draft in the top 3 (I think its pretty clear we'll be drafting in the top 3.)

Bush in the top 3 :lol:

Maybe AP.. I can see it.

Brady Quinn :lol:

Joe Thomas? No way we draft another OL early. Al probably thinks its a pretty bad idea.

Hey, our organization has made some pretty questionable choices (remember when we selected a kicker in the first round? 2 picks later, Shaun Alexander was taken) ... I said we can prolly all agree on hoping we dont take Thomas. Our organization is a different story.

And Bush is a Hog!! If he doesent get injured, he wins the Heisman Trophy and Louisville beats Rutgers on their way to an undefeated season and a BCS National Championship Title.

And AD is the moniker for Peterson, short for "all day"

Do you think we take him?

It's not that they're bad, lol.. they just wont happen, the Raiders dont do that stuff.

I know who AD or AP is. Of course we take him if we get a top-3 [ick, I'm almost sure of that.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 02:36 PM
What are the chances we win this game?

I'd like the chances better if it was in Oaktown. Arrowhead is always tough, especially for an offense that can't do anything.

Komp
11-14-2006, 02:53 PM
I hate the Chiefs waaay more than the Broncos and Chargers, so I'd love see us beat them. But they have two really good motor guys in Allan and Hali on their DL that are going to give our OL fits. I hope Walsh pulls his head out of his ass and calls some short curls and slants for the offense to run. Our defense should be ok, stack the box and make Huard throw it. Without Gonzo the Chiefs passing game doesn't scare me all that much, but they are well coached and always seem to know when to roll the dice and go deep.

Who knows with our OL. I keep waiting for them to make progress and have a breakthrough game. If we can run the ball we should have a good shot, but who knows if that is going to happen.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-14-2006, 02:57 PM
At the begining of the season, I knew we were going to suck(not this badly), but all i wanted was a win againist a AFC West team...sigh.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 03:01 PM
I hate the Chiefs waaay more than the Broncos and Chargers, so I'd love see us beat them. But they have two really good motor guys in Allan and Hali on their DL that are going to give our OL fits. I hope Walsh pulls his head out of his ass and calls some short curls and slants for the offense to run. Our defense should be ok, stack the box and make Huard throw it. Without Gonzo the Chiefs passing game doesn't scare me all that much, but they are well coached and always seem to know when to roll the dice and go deep.

Who knows with our OL. I keep waiting for them to make progress and have a breakthrough game. If we can run the ball we should have a good shot, but who knows if that is going to happen.

I have a hard time deciding if I dislike the Broncos or the Chiefs more.....Pretty sure its the Broncos.

Windy
11-14-2006, 03:02 PM
This is my order. With the teams i like more first. I still hate them


Chiefs
Chargers
Broncos

locseti
11-14-2006, 05:30 PM
I think the Broncos are defintely the most hated team in Raider Nation. Then come the Chiefs and Chargers. Every game against an AFC West opponent is a rivalry game, kind of like the Cowboys in every NFC East game. We need at least one win against an AFC opponent, but its gonna be hard to get it this week in Arrowhead against a hungry Chiefs team that is basically fighting for their playoff lives.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 07:55 PM
Jerry McDonald, of ANG Newspapers, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss gave a reason for why he has dropped so many passes this year. "Maybe because I'm unhappy and I'm not too excited about what's going on, so my concentration and focus level tends to go down sometimes when I'm in a bad mood. So all I can say is that if you put me in a good situation and make me happy, man, you get good results," said Moss.

What a joke.

D4rk 0ne
11-14-2006, 08:47 PM
Jerry McDonald, of ANG Newspapers, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss gave a reason for why he has dropped so many passes this year. "Maybe because I'm unhappy and I'm not too excited about what's going on, so my concentration and focus level tends to go down sometimes when I'm in a bad mood. So all I can say is that if you put me in a good situation and make me happy, man, you get good results," said Moss.

What a joke.
Frankly, I completely understand. Either get Walsh out or make him change his scheme and add plays that Walter and the offense can run efficiently. Although I don't think there's any excuse that justifies Moss's performance this year... IMO we should dump Walsh and hire someone new (Fassel?)... It's hard to tell where we actually need help on offense because no plays ever develop. If Walsh and Davis want a deep threat stretch-the-field passing game, we have to open it with trap runs, screens, slants, and other quick plays to keep the D on their heels. Walsh is running a flat offense and I definitely see where Moss is coming from.

Also, I agree with Walter's statement that was posted (obviously). If Shell benches Walter for that, we need to have a rebellion or something... I don't want to say that Shell can't coach anymore, but sometimes business means hiring the best man for the job, and Walsh doesn't fit that description. He should have to earn his position and work to keep it, or this organization will go nowhere anytime soon.

fondoffilm
11-14-2006, 08:54 PM
I wonder if Tom Walsh's bed-and-breakfast is nice.

jmanz
11-14-2006, 08:54 PM
Jerry McDonald, of ANG Newspapers, reports Oakland Raiders WR Randy Moss gave a reason for why he has dropped so many passes this year. "Maybe because I'm unhappy and I'm not too excited about what's going on, so my concentration and focus level tends to go down sometimes when I'm in a bad mood. So all I can say is that if you put me in a good situation and make me happy, man, you get good results," said Moss.

What a joke.
Frankly, I completely understand. Either get Walsh out or make him change his scheme and add plays that Walter and the offense can run efficiently. Although I don't think there's any excuse that justifies Moss's performance this year... IMO we should dump Walsh and hire someone new (Fassel?)... It's hard to tell where we actually need help on offense because no plays ever develop. If Walsh and Davis want a deep threat stretch-the-field passing game, we have to open it with trap runs, screens, slants, and other quick plays to keep the D on their heels. Walsh is running a flat offense and I definitely see where Moss is coming from.

Also, I agree with Walter's statement that was posted (obviously). If Shell benches Walter for that, we need to have a rebellion or something... I don't want to say that Shell can't coach anymore, but sometimes business means hiring the best man for the job, and Walsh doesn't fit that description. He should have to earn his position and work to keep it, or this organization will go nowhere anytime soon.

Well i can see why he would be frustrated but his venting to the media about it is BS. I guess maybe i've seen too much of his bitching from his Viking days being up North close to that scene. It gets old.

Komp
11-14-2006, 10:52 PM
You Canadian jmanz? I'm from Edmonton.

Look at the Ravens improvement on offense after firing their OC. I don't know why Davis is hesitant on firing him. I understand we've had a high turnover in the past couple years, but Walsh is flat out doing a horrible job.

RaiderNation
11-14-2006, 11:21 PM
its time to get rid of moss.

Paranoidmoonduck
11-15-2006, 04:27 AM
Due to some computer trouble (ie: exploding), I just got back on this site.

The Broncos game was nothing short of incredibly frustrating. During the first half Walsh's play calling was greatly improved, and the offense was running smoothly (it took by such suprise that I suspected I had missed the announcement of a replacement for Walsh). The plays were varied (fake handoff to fake reverse to screen play...genius) and effective. I don't know what happened at half-time, but Walsh reverted to his old self, trying stuff that obviously hadn't worked all year. Terribly frustrating.

On the bright side, I'm convinced this defense is for real.

jmanz
11-15-2006, 10:44 AM
You Canadian jmanz? I'm from Edmonton.

Look at the Ravens improvement on offense after firing their OC. I don't know why Davis is hesitant on firing him. I understand we've had a high turnover in the past couple years, but Walsh is flat out doing a horrible job.

No sir, from North Dakota actually.

jmanz
11-15-2006, 11:41 AM
Due to some computer trouble (ie: exploding), I just got back on this site.

The Broncos game was nothing short of incredibly frustrating. During the first half Walsh's play calling was greatly improved, and the offense was running smoothly (it took by such suprise that I suspected I had missed the announcement of a replacement for Walsh). The plays were varied (fake handoff to fake reverse to screen play...genius) and effective. I don't know what happened at half-time, but Walsh reverted to his old self, trying stuff that obviously hadn't worked all year. Terribly frustrating.

On the bright side, I'm convinced this defense is for real.

welcome back....interesting that they would do some tricky plays in the first half but go dormant in the second half. I only saw the last quarter so I wasn't fortunate enough to see the brief flash of life from Walsh's playbook.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-15-2006, 01:46 PM
Due to some computer trouble (ie: exploding), I just got back on this site.
That sounds interesting. :|

locseti
11-15-2006, 01:51 PM
If I could go to one away game, it'd be at Arrowhead

Windy
11-15-2006, 01:54 PM
I really hope the line plays like they did against pittsburgh

locseti
11-15-2006, 04:42 PM
Looks like Green is starting for the Chiefs...I guess he wants another concussion...

Komp
11-15-2006, 05:11 PM
lol the man in the cape...nice....

Paranoidmoonduck
11-15-2006, 05:40 PM
welcome back....interesting that they would do some tricky plays in the first half but go dormant in the second half. I only saw the last quarter so I wasn't fortunate enough to see the brief flash of life from Walsh's playbook.

It really confused me. The play calling in the first was plays I hadn't seen get called all year. Zone-blocking sweep to Zach Crockett? That reverse I mentioned? It appeared as if Walsh had rubbed the bed n' breakfast out of his eyes. Sadly, that was not the case. I'd be very interested in knowing what happened though. The offense looked really good with real playcalling.

That sounds interesting.

Not really, considering I'm operation on a terrible little laptop which can barely handle me running this site and some music to go along with it. New computer's in the mail though, so wohoo.

Komp
11-15-2006, 09:39 PM
We're not starting Brooks this weekend are we?

portermvp84
11-16-2006, 09:58 AM
its time to get rid of moss.

No it's time to get rid of Jerry Porter.

jmanz
11-16-2006, 12:07 PM
We're not starting Brooks this weekend are we?

Gosh I hope not.

portermvp84
11-16-2006, 01:10 PM
I say we should at least give him one more shot at it, if he does bad like did at San Diego, then we should bench him and start Walter again.

locseti
11-16-2006, 01:54 PM
no way! Lets not give him another shot, hes been off for weeks, is no doubt rusty, and looked ****** in both preseason and against SD. Plus Aaron Brooks is just not a good QB, I dont know why we didnt go after Joey Harrington in the offseason!!

We have nothing to gain by starting him, hes not sticking around, and we're not gonna make the playoffs, so we have nothing to lose by playing Walter. He needs the year of experience to get fully acclimated to the NFL.

That being said, I think that our comatosed coach will give the nod to Brooks b/c of Walter's remarks regarding our playcalling (which were right on by the way) and the fact that he's a "vet" - even if hes a mediocre vet at best.

Windy
11-16-2006, 03:05 PM
What are your opinions on Chris Simms?

He most likely will be on the market

jmanz
11-16-2006, 03:37 PM
no way! Lets not give him another shot, hes been off for weeks, is no doubt rusty, and looked *********** in both preseason and against SD. Plus Aaron Brooks is just not a good QB, I dont know why we didnt go after Joey Harrington in the offseason!!

We have nothing to gain by starting him, hes not sticking around, and we're not gonna make the playoffs, so we have nothing to lose by playing Walter. He needs the year of experience to get fully acclimated to the NFL.

That being said, I think that our comatosed coach will give the nod to Brooks b/c of Walter's remarks regarding our playcalling (which were right on by the way) and the fact that he's a "vet" - even if hes a mediocre vet at best.

I agree, there is no reason for Brooks to be playing at this point. No shot at the playoffs, lets see what the kid can do.

Smooth Criminal
11-16-2006, 04:53 PM
Found this on another site and thought you'd get a laguh out of it.

Raiders DT Warren Sapp recently told a group of fifth-graders that his job is to "kill the man with the ball." (And then one of the kids asked, "How do we give the ball to Art Shell?")

jmanz
11-16-2006, 04:54 PM
Found this on another site and thought you'd get a laguh out of it.

Raiders DT Warren Sapp recently told a group of fifth-graders that his job is to "kill the man with the ball." (And then one of the kids asked, "How do we give the ball to Art Shell?")

lol that is fricken funny.

AlexDown
11-16-2006, 04:56 PM
If the Raiders put Brooks in over Walter and the season doesn't get much better, do you still think they won't draft a QB? I mean, the Jets kept Bollinger in for the rest of the season, might as well give him the experience and see if he can develop. If the Raiders bench him, what message do you think they are saying?

Smooth Criminal
11-16-2006, 05:05 PM
Just because they bench Walter doesn't mean they have no faith in him. it could be they just want to get their moneys worth out of Brooks.

AlexDown
11-16-2006, 05:10 PM
Just because they bench Walter doesn't mean they have no faith in him. it could be they just want to get their moneys worth out of Brooks.

No, there isn't hope for the Raiders to make playoffs this season. Benching him does say they don't have faith in him.

locseti
11-16-2006, 05:32 PM
Found this on another site and thought you'd get a laguh out of it.

Raiders DT Warren Sapp recently told a group of fifth-graders that his job is to "kill the man with the ball." (And then one of the kids asked, "How do we give the ball to Art Shell?")

bahahahhahaahhahahahahahhahahahaaaaaa

Windy
11-16-2006, 05:39 PM
Just because they bench Walter doesn't mean they have no faith in him. it could be they just want to get their moneys worth out of Brooks.

No, there isn't hope for the Raiders to make playoffs this season. Benching him does say they don't have faith in him.


If Walter is getting benched it's because of his words to the media

locseti
11-16-2006, 05:48 PM
thats what happens when you speak your mind. Is there a timetable for Shells emergence out of his coma?

slightlyaraiderfan
11-16-2006, 05:57 PM
I love Walter for coming out and said what he did, everything he said is true...somebody has to let Shell know what is going on, because he is obviously stubborn as hell.

locseti
11-16-2006, 07:44 PM
I love Walter for coming out and said what he did, everything he said is true...somebody has to let Shell know what is going on, because he is obviously stubborn as hell.

Preach on brother

D4rk 0ne
11-16-2006, 08:49 PM
Yeah, I agre.. I thought he had said that he doesn't care if players give opinions as long as they are like appropriate or something? Like when Moss said something and the media was all over it but it wasn't a big deal and Shell just said that he didn;t care because it wasn;t disrespectful...

Well what's wrong with what Walter said? He didn't call Walsh any names or even say that he is a bad OC. He just questioned the play call, and with good reason. Shell needs to snap out of it; it's not the 80s. It's not a chance to relive your days of hardnose Raider football (I wish) but rather, a chance to take what the Raiders have and make it work by playing off of our strengths rather than ONLY trying to test our weaknesses. And It's really Walsh to blame, not Shell. But Shell needs to dump Walsh or at least have someone tell him to shape it up or he's out... 2 old men can not destroy a franchise with tens of thousands of fans...

Komp
11-16-2006, 11:43 PM
I dunno, if they bench Walter that pretty much says to me they want to go in a different direction OR they want to give Brooks a shot. Brooks had a chance and he was a trainwreck, but Shell is old school and prolly gives seniority to Brooks. Brooks is not even a temporary answer at QB. We need to figure out whether Walter can handle the load THIS SEASON, not 2 years from now. There is a franchise QB [Quinn] that is sitting in the top5 who I think would be a perfect fit for the Raiders and if they don't want Walter, than get him now.

If management doesn't like Walter that is fine, but don't half ass it and maybe play him this week or that week or maybe Brooks next week and so on. Make a decision and stick with it. Make a commitment one way or the other. Half-assing it and buying free agents just b/c they played well in the Super Bowl has been like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound. Temporary solutions are not acceptable. I'm not interested in a franchise that wins temporarily, I want to win consistently and always be in a position to win. Now I'm pissed off cause thinking about it, I know Shell will put Brooks in and we're gonna do the hokey pokey at QB the rest of the season. We will get no answers and waste next year doing the same ******* thing. I swear to God if Brooks starts, I'm writing a strongly worded email to the Raiders! :P


PS - Sorry about the rant, I don't even know who is gonna start. But it gets frustrating when you see ppl make the same stupid decisions over and over again. I think most of the ppl in this thread could build a winning franchise again in Oakland quicker than those in charge at the moment.

661rep
11-16-2006, 11:52 PM
I love Walter for coming out and said what he did, everything he said is true...somebody has to let Shell know what is going on, because he is obviously stubborn as hell.

Preach on brother

I also agree with what Walter said.

Windy
11-17-2006, 12:30 AM
Shell got fined 12,500 for criticizing the officials. hats off to him

nobodyinparticular
11-17-2006, 12:44 AM
Shell got fined 12,500 for criticizing the officials. hats off to him

After months of biting his tongue, he comments on something that everyone saw (as well as the Fabian INT) and gets fined for it. He was right about the Raiders getting screwed.

portermvp84
11-17-2006, 09:57 AM
I love Walter for coming out and said what he did, everything he said is true...somebody has to let Shell know what is going on, because he is obviously stubborn as hell.

I don't blame him one bit he's tired of getting sacked every time he drops back.

jmanz
11-17-2006, 03:48 PM
I've been trying to keep an eye on the headlines to see who we are starting...haven't run across anything yet. Better not be Brooks. We need to give Walter more PT to see if we need to draft Quinn or not.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-17-2006, 04:21 PM
I've been trying to keep an eye on the headlines to see who we are starting...haven't run across anything yet. Better not be Brooks. We need to give Walter more PT to see if we need to draft Quinn or not.
Shell hasn't announced who is going to start yet.

Raiders quarterback Aaron Brooks, out two months with a bruised chest muscle, was deemed healthy enough to play again Wednesday, and he shared first-team snaps in practice with Andrew Walter.

But, Art Shell isn't ready to name Brooks his starting quarterback. Not yet, anyway, and this is a decision that could stall out until Sunday's game at Kansas City.

jmanz
11-17-2006, 04:29 PM
I've been trying to keep an eye on the headlines to see who we are starting...haven't run across anything yet. Better not be Brooks. We need to give Walter more PT to see if we need to draft Quinn or not.
Shell hasn't announced who is going to start yet.

Raiders quarterback Aaron Brooks, out two months with a bruised chest muscle, was deemed healthy enough to play again Wednesday, and he shared first-team snaps in practice with Andrew Walter.

But, Art Shell isn't ready to name Brooks his starting quarterback. Not yet, anyway, and this is a decision that could stall out until Sunday's game at Kansas City.

ah yes, thank ya sir!

Paranoidmoonduck
11-17-2006, 05:17 PM
You have to think that even if Brooks gets the start, he'll be on a really short leash.

jmanz
11-17-2006, 05:47 PM
You have to think that even if Brooks gets the start, he'll be on a really short leash.

I would hope so, he had the butter fingers early on. Fumbled all the time it seemed.

Xonraider
11-17-2006, 06:48 PM
Raiders DT Warren Sapp recently told a group of fifth-graders that his job is to "kill the man with the ball." (And then one of the kids asked, "How do we give the ball to Art Shell?")

:lol: :lol:

slightlyaraiderfan
11-17-2006, 09:52 PM
Raiders DT Warren Sapp recently told a group of fifth-graders that his job is to "kill the man with the ball." (And then one of the kids asked, "How do we give the ball to Art Shell?")

:lol: :lol:
Future Raider fans, pissed off and ruthless.

portermvp84
11-18-2006, 10:36 AM
What are the chances of us winning this game?

11-18-2006, 10:42 AM
What are the chances of us winning this game?
Trent's first game back. Possibly some rust on his part. So if the Defense plays lights out, and the offense can manage one scoring drive I'd say you have a pretty good chance.

jmanz
11-18-2006, 10:55 AM
If we can slow L J down, we've got a shot.

Don Killuminati
11-18-2006, 11:00 AM
Green has been on the shelf for a long time now. Their O-line is banged up. Burgess has to have a big game for us to win. The run D definitely will be the key to this week's game, though.

Offensively, we need to lock Tom Walsh out of the building. That's about it.

Windy
11-18-2006, 10:26 PM
**** !!!!! brooks is starting :x

slightlyaraiderfan
11-19-2006, 02:47 AM
*********** !!!!! brooks is starting :x
Saw that on espn's bottomline, and wasn't really surprised after Walter's comments this week.

Don Killuminati
11-19-2006, 05:57 AM
Just one more reason to despise Art Shell.

jmanz
11-19-2006, 10:49 AM
*********** !!!!! brooks is starting :x

what a load of garbage

bernbabybern820
11-19-2006, 11:49 AM
*********** !!!!! brooks is starting :x

what a load of garbage

in all honesty our offense cant go anywhere but up.

Windy
11-19-2006, 12:40 PM
i cant believe brooks is still that elusive

nobodyinparticular
11-19-2006, 01:14 PM
Raiders' offense is actually moving....

NIN1984
11-19-2006, 01:24 PM
Wow Aaron Brooks is looking good, I hope he can keep this up

Kurve
11-19-2006, 02:54 PM
MOSS totally stoped running right before the ball was thrown and then lead to the INT............ lost the game for us ....trade moss now he is worthless! Give it up for Brooks played much better then walters did all year gave us some life our defense didnt really play all that well they played much better all year. Im pissed we could of won that game oh well! another loss to the cheifs and of the year!

NIN1984
11-19-2006, 03:31 PM
Randy Moss is worth a 3rd pick at best

slightlyaraiderfan
11-19-2006, 03:40 PM
Looks like Gallery is done for the season, that was kind of sick.

nobodyinparticular
11-19-2006, 04:15 PM
Today was the same story we've seen since Week 4. We had a good all-around day in the 1st half, but in the 2nd half the opposing team made adjustments and the Raiders did not. Brooks looked pretty terrible throughout the second half (the same way Walter did last week, and many other times) and we lost the game that we had in hand.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-19-2006, 04:59 PM
Our DLine got toally dominated today. That's something we really need to improve on..

Oaktown1981
11-19-2006, 05:01 PM
Brooks did everthing he could to help the Raiders win today.

If Walter would of started the game he would of been sacked at least 7 times. Raiders probably wouldn't of scored either.


Raiders have a better chance to win with Brooks because he is mobile.

After the game Brooks said Moss ran the wrong route. Raiders need to trade Moss ASAP.

Don Killuminati
11-19-2006, 05:15 PM
Jordan is done. Gallery probably is too. (http://www.thenflforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=330989&posted=1#post330989)

Windy
11-19-2006, 05:17 PM
Jordan is done. Gallery probably is too. (http://www.thenflforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=330989&posted=1#post330989)

Calvin Johnson can start looking for real estate around the bay

Windy
11-19-2006, 05:32 PM
I have no doubt in my mind that Moss and Porter will be gone next year.
Where does that leave us?

Curry
CJ
Whitted
?
?

What if CJ doesnt declare?

Do we trade down?

11-19-2006, 05:33 PM
I know that Al Davis doesn't draft first round QB's and all of that but would you guys want him to take Quinn if you were the GM? Or do you have faith in Walter?

LookItsAlDavis
11-19-2006, 05:36 PM
I think Brooks proved that it's possible to move the ball with Tom Walsh calling the plays, and that it was Andrew Walter holding on to the ball too long that was messing the offense up.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-19-2006, 05:42 PM
I think Brooks proved that it's possible to move the ball with Tom Walsh calling the plays, and that it was Andrew Walter holding on to the ball too long that was messing the offense up.
Well, Brooks has the legs to buy more time. Walter doesn't have the luxury, which lead to him struggling behind our weak ass line.

Windy
11-19-2006, 05:43 PM
I know that Al Davis doesn't draft first round QB's and all of that but would you guys want him to take Quinn if you were the GM? Or do you have faith in Walter?

Brooks played well today and I believe a mobile qb is key for the offense we run. I could see us drafting a young mobile qb rounds 3-4. I still like Walter though

Raiderz4Life
11-19-2006, 06:24 PM
I know that Al Davis doesn't draft first round QB's and all of that but would you guys want him to take Quinn if you were the GM? Or do you have faith in Walter?

Brooks played well today and I believe a mobile qb is key for the offense we run. I could see us drafting a young mobile qb rounds 3-4. I still like Walter though

Maybe Troy Smith?

11-19-2006, 06:25 PM
I know that Al Davis doesn't draft first round QB's and all of that but would you guys want him to take Quinn if you were the GM? Or do you have faith in Walter?

Brooks played well today and I believe a mobile qb is key for the offense we run. I could see us drafting a young mobile qb rounds 3-4. I still like Walter though

Maybe Troy Smith?

Won't be around 3rd round.

LookItsAlDavis
11-19-2006, 06:43 PM
I hope we have a draft like the Chargers did back in 01. Trade down take a standout offensive player. (CJ or AP) and take a QB of the future (Troy Smith.) I truly believe Andrew Walter isn't the answer.

jmanz
11-19-2006, 07:00 PM
I'm still undecided in the draft direction. I'm starting think Quinn would be tempting....now Jordan is getting nicked up and we can't stop the run.....Choices choices.

Windy
11-19-2006, 07:00 PM
Could this happen or am I just dreaming?

1. Calvin Johnson

2. Troy Smith

2. (Randy Moss Trade) Amobi Okoye

nobodyinparticular
11-19-2006, 08:29 PM
Could this happen or am I just dreaming?

1. Calvin Johnson

2. Troy Smith

2. (Randy Moss Trade) Amobi Okoye

Dreaming. If the Raiders still don't draft Quinn, after today I have to think it will be Peterson or Thomas.

raiderfan4life
11-19-2006, 08:38 PM
Fuuck Joe Thomas, dont draft the tackle in the high 1st round cause look at Gallery. FUUCK NO. I rather get Peterson, Troy Smith, Calvin or Alan Branch...

Raiderz4Life
11-19-2006, 09:04 PM
Hey guys i need some help, wehave this fantasy thing going in my gemetry class, and if our players get hurt for the season we're allowed to drop 'em and pick up new ones, i had McNabb and Jordan which are now out for the season, i need some help on who should i pick up

jmanz
11-19-2006, 09:50 PM
Hey guys i need some help, wehave this fantasy thing going in my gemetry class, and if our players get hurt for the season we're allowed to drop 'em and pick up new ones, i had McNabb and Jordan which are now out for the season, i need some help on who should i pick up

That would basically depend on who is out there in the free agent list for ya.

Raiderz4Life
11-19-2006, 09:51 PM
Hey guys i need some help, wehave this fantasy thing going in my gemetry class, and if our players get hurt for the season we're allowed to drop 'em and pick up new ones, i had McNabb and Jordan which are now out for the season, i need some help on who should i pick up

That would basically depend on who is out there in the free agent list for ya.

wedont really have that, we can have 2 teams with the same QB and stuff, so i can virtually pick whoever i want, but there's a catch, i only have certain amount of money, but with the money i get from realising mcnabb and jordan i have enough to get pretty much anyone to replace them cuz i add their cost to w.e. i had left over

Komp
11-19-2006, 10:03 PM
I didn't watch the game but from all the writeups it looks like we continue to find new ways to lose football games [penalties, lazy route running]. I hate the Chiefs more than any team in the NFL [with the exception of maybe the Bucs] so it kills me that once again we lose a close game to them. It seems to happen every time we play them.

Looks like the Chiefs just plain ran the ball down our throat. It's going to be a difficult choice come draft time whether to grab Quinn or take a DT/DE. I think Quinn is going to be a great QB in the NFL, we don't have the line to protect him yet but we could put Brooks out there for one more season while Quinn learns the offense. I dunno....next week at San Diego, yikes.

PS - I'm glad Brooks called out Moss on his ********. I don't care if you're unhappy, run the damn route properly. It's not just about you, its about the other 40 guys who busted their ass for 59 minutes so you could be in a position to win the game.

Don Killuminati
11-20-2006, 07:53 AM
I know that Al Davis doesn't draft first round QB's and all of that but would you guys want him to take Quinn if you were the GM? Or do you have faith in Walter?

No, not unless he magically becomes a scrambler. Until our O-line starts blocking and our coaches call an intelligent game, no pocket passer is going to have success. I realize Quinn can move around pretty well, but he's not going to do the athletic dips and slips Brooks had to do to stay in one piece Sunday.

I think Brooks proved that it's possible to move the ball with Tom Walsh calling the plays, and that it was Andrew Walter holding on to the ball too long that was messing the offense up.

Sounds to me like you really don't have a good grasp of what's going on out there.

I have no doubt in my mind that Moss and Porter will be gone next year.
Where does that leave us?

Curry
CJ
Whitted
?
?

What if CJ doesnt declare?

Do we trade down?

Al won't trade down unless someone offers him a lottery of draft picks and/or players. He's never traded down. Ever. Word is that he entertains offers, but asks for way too much.

If CJ doesn't declare, I'd look for AP. If neither declares, Alan Branch. If he doesn't declare, fates help us. We may have no other option but to take Joe Thomas or Gaines Adams.

Ideally, we go with Branch in 1 and Kenny Irons in 2, although I figure Peterson in 1 and some off the wall pick in 2 is more likely.

Komp
11-20-2006, 01:05 PM
Ideally, we go with Branch in 1 and Kenny Irons in 2, although I figure Peterson in 1 and some off the wall pick in 2 is more likely.

Have a little faith. I think we've done well the past two season in the draft. Gallery should have been the stud that everyone thought he was. I don't see any reason why we won't have a great draft this year. Especially with a possible #1 pick.

portermvp84
11-20-2006, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Troy Smtih or Chris Leak. Aarron Brooks def didn't better than Andrew Walter would of done. Brooks actually moved the ball down the field, thats something that Walter can't do. The thing I can't belive is we can hold T Bell to 34 yards, but Larry Johnson just walks all over us,what's up with that?

jmanz
11-20-2006, 01:43 PM
I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Troy Smtih or Chris Leak. Aarron Brooks def didn't better than Andrew Walter would of done. Brooks actually moved the ball down the field, thats something that Walter can't do. The thing I can't belive is we can hold T Bell to 34 yards, but Larry Johnson just walks all over us,what's up with that?

I figured L J would feast on our D line. He's just a brute.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-20-2006, 01:44 PM
I wouldn't mind taking a chance on either Troy Smtih or Chris Leak. Aarron Brooks def didn't better than Andrew Walter would of done. Brooks actually moved the ball down the field, thats something that Walter can't do. The thing I can't belive is we can hold T Bell to 34 yards, but Larry Johnson just walks all over us,what's up with that?
I say hell no to Leak. I'll look at Smith in the 2nd or 3rd.

eazyb81
11-20-2006, 01:54 PM
I know that Al Davis doesn't draft first round QB's and all of that but would you guys want him to take Quinn if you were the GM? Or do you have faith in Walter?

Brooks played well today and I believe a mobile qb is key for the offense we run. I could see us drafting a young mobile qb rounds 3-4. I still like Walter though

What about trading down and picking up Jamarcus Russell in the middle of the 1st, assuming he comes out? He seems like he would be a good fit for your scheme, and is the type of player Al likes.

diabsoule
11-20-2006, 04:18 PM
Don't know if you guys have seen it on the NFL page or not but LaMont Jordan is done for the season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2668378

jmanz
11-20-2006, 04:46 PM
Don't know if you guys have seen it on the NFL page or not but LaMont Jordan is done for the season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2668378

yeah saw that earlier, just what we needed :cry:

slightlyaraiderfan
11-20-2006, 04:54 PM
Adrien Peterson time. :wink:

jmanz
11-20-2006, 04:54 PM
Adrien Peterson time. :wink:

That might have sealed the deal. Hard to say yet I guess.

Komp
11-20-2006, 05:32 PM
Am I the only one scared of taking Peterson due to health concerns. I know he's awesome, but Oklahoma ran him like a rented mule.

diabsoule
11-20-2006, 05:49 PM
Am I the only one scared of taking Peterson due to health concerns. I know he's awesome, but Oklahoma ran him like a rented mule.

They ran him hard and he pretty much carried that offense. DeAngelo Williams did the same thing with the offense at Memphis and he has started to wear down this season. I'd be kinda unsure about AD due to the amount of carries he received at Oklahoma. I think Calvin Johnson would be the safe bet if you guys pick at #1.

slightlyaraiderfan
11-20-2006, 05:58 PM
Am I the only one scared of taking Peterson due to health concerns. I know he's awesome, but Oklahoma ran him like a rented mule.
Yeah, that's the biggest thing with AP. 3 year at OU, 3 serious injures. :?

LookItsAlDavis
11-20-2006, 06:25 PM
Maybe we can trade Moss for Cedric Benson, just an idea.

11-20-2006, 06:27 PM
Maybe we can trade Moss for Cedric Benson, just an idea.

Not happening.

jmanz
11-20-2006, 06:27 PM
Yeah AP worries me a bit as well....

NIN1984
11-20-2006, 07:26 PM
This is why I like Marshawn Lynch more and plus he is from Oakland it would be the perfect fit if we go RB

RaiderNation
11-20-2006, 07:52 PM
i think taking troy smith in the 2nd or 3rd round would be great. mobile enough to ecscape d-linemen, good arm. hes faster and better than brooks.

i also want CJ in the draft if we trade moss or porter

if we keep one of them or both i'd want to take AD or lynch. we need to trade jordon too

11-20-2006, 07:53 PM
i think taking troy smith in the 2nd or 3rd round would be great. mobile enough to ecscape d-linemen, good arm. hes faster and better than brooks.

i also want CJ in the draft if we trade moss or porter

if we keep one of them or both i'd want to take AD or lynch. we need to trade jordon too

What do you think you would get for Jordan?

RaiderNation
11-20-2006, 07:58 PM
id think mayb like a 3rd rounder


but id want to get either a o linemen or d linemen for him instead of a draft pick

jmanz
11-20-2006, 08:29 PM
I noticed Huff had quite a few tackles. I didn't get to see the game but was he impressive out there?

11-20-2006, 08:35 PM
id think mayb like a 3rd rounder


but id want to get either a o linemen or d linemen for him instead of a draft pick

That seems like a bit much. That's what Michael Turner will go for.

Your avy is too big.