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bergo23
01-29-2007, 01:18 PM
Unless guys like Blalock or Willis slip to #30, we should get one of the top 5 of either Safety or WR, and some of the guys mentioned (Griffin, Mayweather, Weddle and Wr's like Meachum, Rice and speedster's like Higgins and Stuckey)........those guys could really come in and start right away.

I feel good abo0ut AJ's chances in the draft to come up Gold again. We'll see what he might do in Free Agency for Safety's there are a couple of guys who might fit with us.....Grant (Jax) being one. If he settles for McCree $$ (roughly 15 mill on a 5 year deal).........he may form a Championship safety tandem during our "window" the next 3-4 years to get a Lombardi. Kiel isn't that guy, it will be interesting to see who AJ plugs in to get it done in pass defense.

DonWoods33
01-29-2007, 05:07 PM
I don't think we can go into next year with the same WR corps. Looking back, our suspect WR's screwed us in the Patriots game and this is a function of AJ only drafting one in the last three drafts (VJ). In a draft with as many quality WR's as there are in this one, we should get one of the top 6 or 7, unless we plan on paying a Donte Stallworth in FA (which I doubt AJ will do)

I think you'll see WR Drew Bennett (Titans) signed. I like Stallworth, but there are some problems with him. He'll get a huge number with a lot of years, he's not always healthy, and you be annointing him over Jackson (which I wouldn't mind actually). I got to believe they will bring in some veteran help though, you just can't count on a rookie WR making enough of an impact, and there isn't enough talent on the roster. I also bet you'll see one at least 1st day and one 2nd day WR drafted along with a few extra UDFA, probably like 4-5 guys, brought in. If I am not mistaken they only brought in one or two of them last year.

49ersfan_87
01-30-2007, 08:42 PM
What can you guys tell me about dave manusky, LB coach? I think nolan is going to interview him for DC.

sdpads24
01-30-2007, 08:46 PM
What can you guys tell me about dave manusky, LB coach? I think nolan is going to interview him for DC.
I know we have a good LB core, but thats about it. Take a look at this http://www.chargers.com/team/coaches/greg-manusky.htm

DonWoods33
01-30-2007, 08:57 PM
What can you guys tell me about dave manusky, LB coach? I think nolan is going to interview him for DC.
I know we have a good LB core, but thats about it. Take a look at this http://www.chargers.com/team/coaches/greg-manusky.htm

He did a real nice job with Steve Foley in 04. He had a hell of year then.

DonWoods33
01-30-2007, 09:03 PM
Unless guys like Blalock or Willis slip to #30, we should get one of the top 5 of either Safety or WR, and some of the guys mentioned (Griffin, Mayweather, Weddle and Wr's like Meachum, Rice and speedster's like Higgins and Stuckey)........those guys could really come in and start right away.

I feel good abo0ut AJ's chances in the draft to come up Gold again. We'll see what he might do in Free Agency for Safety's there are a couple of guys who might fit with us.....Grant (Jax) being one. If he settles for McCree $$ (roughly 15 mill on a 5 year deal).........he may form a Championship safety tandem during our "window" the next 3-4 years to get a Lombardi. Kiel isn't that guy, it will be interesting to see who AJ plugs in to get it done in pass defense.

I am getting totally addicted to this site. I can't wait to see Mike Griffin our new free safety. Just think of all the INTs, there are to be had with the pressure this defense creates. I bet he has like 6-8 INTs, with a score or two, and a couple of blocked punts. Hes gonna be great, probably DROY.

bergo23
01-30-2007, 10:30 PM
I am getting totally addicted to this site. I can't wait to see Mike Griffin our new free safety. Just think of all the INTs, there are to be had with the pressure this defense creates. I bet he has like 6-8 INTs, with a score or two, and a couple of blocked punts. Hes gonna be great, probably DROY.[/quote]

I sure hope you are right, I think if he is there, he would be AJ's first pick.............since he didn't stand out at the senior bowl, its definately possible he will slide to us. NE will have to take a Corner, especially with Samuel leaving (unless they franchise him, which given how thin they are, they might have to)....but that still leaves another pick, and they need a safety just as bad as wel do with an aging Harrison who might have one year left in the tank, but that's about it.

If Griffin is not available, I hope we take OLine (assuming Willis is not available), unless maybe Meachum.....but I'd rather get Stuckey or Higgins at the end of round 2.

I know Meachum's #'s were impressive, and he certainly has nice measurables, 3 inches taller than Parker........I am anxiously awaiting Scott's write up on him.

02-01-2007, 12:38 PM
I need an update on Kris Dielman. Anything new? Do you think he will resign or bolt in FA?

I know hes from Ohio and has mentioned playing for his home state.

sdpads24
02-01-2007, 02:25 PM
I need an update on Kris Dielman. Anything new? Do you think he will resign or bolt in FA?

I know hes from Ohio and has mentioned playing for his home state.
I doubt Dielman is going anywhere. The chargers have plenty of salary cap room and I expect them to spend most of it to resign our players.

DonWoods33
02-01-2007, 05:04 PM
I am getting totally addicted to this site. I can't wait to see Mike Griffin our new free safety. Just think of all the INTs, there are to be had with the pressure this defense creates. I bet he has like 6-8 INTs, with a score or two, and a couple of blocked punts. Hes gonna be great, probably DROY.

I sure hope you are right, I think if he is there, he would be AJ's first pick.............since he didn't stand out at the senior bowl, its definately possible he will slide to us. NE will have to take a Corner, especially with Samuel leaving (unless they franchise him, which given how thin they are, they might have to)....but that still leaves another pick, and they need a safety just as bad as wel do with an aging Harrison who might have one year left in the tank, but that's about it.

If Griffin is not available, I hope we take OLine (assuming Willis is not available), unless maybe Meachum.....but I'd rather get Stuckey or Higgins at the end of round 2.

I know Meachum's #'s were impressive, and he certainly has nice measurables, 3 inches taller than Parker........I am anxiously awaiting Scott's write up on him.[/quote]

Griffin didnt play bad in the Senior Bowl, but not as good as Merriweather. Merriweather is going to be a lot like Bob Sanders, elite when he plays but at his size hes going to be nicked up a lot.
NE could go a lot of ways. If they don't trade down like they always seem to do, I could see them drafting two LBers, one inside like Willis or Poz and one outside like Abirani or Jarvis. Hard to say with them. They might look hard at DB Tanard Jackson from Syracuse since he fits their profile of liking guys with versitility.
I like Meachem better then Rice, but really don't like either, not on a team that should win now. If you had a team that was building up, then yeah I would draft one of them, in the hopes that they would be elite within 3 years. But I think its more urgent to get an upgraded starter, even if his upside is not that high, at this point, so you can make your run while the window is open.
I would be more likely to take Ginn in a way though, since hes going to make an impact on returns. If do they trade Turner he could do both KR and PR. I think hes going to be a lot better as a WR then people on this site give him credit for. And you could work in some screens, and other isolation stuff to take advantage of his speed. It should be interesting. If they get say a high second round pick for Turner. I wonder if they might be ballsy enough to trade up into the first and try and secure a top ranked Safety and either one of the top ranked WR or OL.

San Diego Chicken
02-02-2007, 05:47 PM
Sort of OT but who do you guys want winning the Super Bowl? I want the Bears to win, because they have alot of players that I like, and I don't hate the Colts, but I dislike them, because I think the Chargers are better than them.

sdpads24
02-02-2007, 05:58 PM
I want the Bears. I KNOW that if we played the colts we would win. Also not a big fan of the Manning family for obvious reasons. It will be a good game though. Bears 28 Colts 21

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-05-2007, 10:36 AM
So here is my question, it Ben Grubbs falls to us at 30 should we get him? He went to Auburn and has only played OG for 2 years. I would enjoy seeing him replace Goff or Deilman if we don't re-sign him. Then in the second we draft maybe Rouse or if by some miracle Meriweather falls, which I just don't see happening at this point. Then in the third go with a receiver like Johnnie Lee Higgns or Jason Hill. What do you think guys?

bergo23
02-05-2007, 12:52 PM
Grubbs would only be tempting if Dielman doesn't resign. Higgins and the kid from Wazzou may be gone early third.........both very different, but could help our WR group. The dream is to get the safety we want in the first, then get the WR we want (and at the end of the 2nd there will be good ones left in this deep draft class for WR's)........then draft ILB, and OLine at the end of the 3rd.....but if Dielman doesn't resign, I'd like to see a tackle prospect move Olivea inside next too McNeill.....but the tackle prospects will be gone by the third round.....so a guard is more likely.......but if Marten is there in the third, he could be a starting RT.

However it ends up, AJ will get us what we need.

DonWoods33
02-05-2007, 08:59 PM
So here is my question, it Ben Grubbs falls to us at 30 should we get him? He went to Auburn and has only played OG for 2 years. I would enjoy seeing him replace Goff or Deilman if we don't re-sign him. Then in the second we draft maybe Rouse or if by some miracle Meriweather falls, which I just don't see happening at this point. Then in the third go with a receiver like Johnnie Lee Higgns or Jason Hill. What do you think guys?

Summary: "Dielman is an ex-tight end and converted defensive tackle who compensates for a lack of experience with toughness, attitude and desire. Has developed into a solid starter, and at only 25 years old, the arrow is pointing up. Has matured and could be a staple in the Chargers’ line for a long time — a great fit for Marty Schottenheimer, power football."

The more I think about it the more I think you have to resign this guy. Why Smith didn't do it last year, and apply the bonus to last year's cap. I am kind of puzzled

Hope you all like the avaitar for as long as it lasts. If you know how to make them smaller let me know

San Diego Chicken
02-05-2007, 10:26 PM
Here is what I think we will see happen this offseason -

- Kris Dielman will test FA, but eventually re-sign the Chargers. A.J. Smith has already acknowledged that re-signing Dielman is his top priority, and we have plenty of cap space.

- Donnie Edwards leaving via FA. This is a given. I feel sour about this because Donnie is a local guy greatly loved in the community, not to mention he has been a crucial part of this team for five years, but there's almost no chance of him getting a new contract in San Diego.

- Randall Godfrey either retiring or signing a one year deal with the Chargers. I have a feeling he might be back, because it seems like he can't leave the game even though he feels it's time.

- Keenan McCardell's option for 2007 not picked up, and McCardell will retire. Great career Keenan, but you're too expensive to bring back as basically a WR coach.

- Terrence Kiel will be cut. For all we know he will be in federal prison next year, the Chargers don't need that headache and AJ has already hinted that he could be gone.

- Michael Turner will get a 1st round tender, and the Jets will sign him, giving the Chargers the #25 pick in the draft.

- Shaun Phillips tendered with a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and the Chargers will match any offer that he might get, or just re-sign him prior to March 1. Steve Foley retires due to his pending lawsuit.


Free Agency - I don't see us doing much in free agency. The top player available at a position of need is Stallworth. He fits what we need for a vertical passing game, but he has been injured and will probably come at a steep cost. You guys brought up Ken Hamlin, and he is a guy I think could be pursued if he hits the market but ultimately I see the Seahawks re-signing him. Deon Grant and Michael Lewis are guys that will probably hit the market. One thing I could see is us bringing in a backup RB to replace Turner in FA, a guy like Buckhalter or Davenport, but those guys both have had injury concerns.


Draft -

1) Robert Meachem, WR Tennessee. VJ is pretty firm right now as the #1 reciever, but the whole offense would benefit from a real threat as a #2 reciever. Malcolm Floyd will definitely be in the mix, he showed some things last year. Parker is a reliable #3, but underwhelming as a #2. Meachem might be a top 10 pick in a normal draft, but in a WR draft like this you could find him in the 20's. He's just the type of guy to develop with VJ, he has speed, size and hands. The Chargers snag him with the #25 from the Jets.

1) Eric Weddle, SS, Utah. It's obvious that strong safety is the other obvious need and I like Weddle here the most. He is a great athlete, but also a tough guy and leader. We need a bit of a PR lift and Weddle would be a great contrast to Kiel. Merriweather would be a consideration in the 2nd but not here. Griffin and Weddle is probably going to come down to the combine, but I like Weddle more right now.

2) Brandon Siler, ILB, Florida. It looks like Wilhelm and Cooper are ready to step in at ILB with Dobbins behind them but behind those guys, there isn't much, and at OLB we need depth. Siler is a guy who could probably play ILB or OLB in the 3-4.

3) Dwayne Wright, RB, Fresno State. A physical inside runner to replace Michael Turner. He was productive in the WAC and he is also a local kid from San Diego.

3) Steve Breaston, PR/KR, Michigan. The Chargers are pretty desperate for a good return man, and a punt returner in particular. If Sproles can return from his injury, he and Cromartie would be the kick returners, but neither of them are adept at returning punts.

4) Paul Soliei, DT, Utah. Big NT who would be developed behind Jamal Williams and provide depth.

5) Mansfield Wrotto, OG, Georgia Tech. Could provide solid depth behind Dielman and Goff.

6) Laurent Robinson, WR, Illinois State. Sleeper WR who has the talent to work his way into the rotation at some point.

7) Andrew Carnahan, OT, Arizona State. Could have been a first day draft pick if he wasn't injured in his senior year. Depth at T is probably needed.

I'mAHustler
02-06-2007, 09:16 AM
If the Chargers draft Meachem, they will be VERY deadly in the AFC. I just the Dolphins had a chance of getting their hands on a WR in the first two rounds.

I'mAHustler
02-06-2007, 09:17 AM
Sorry for the double post, but do you guys believe you need to imporve on the team?

DonWoods33
02-06-2007, 09:30 AM
Here is what I think we will see happen this offseason -

- Kris Dielman will test FA, but eventually re-sign the Chargers. A.J. Smith has already acknowledged that re-signing Dielman is his top priority, and we have plenty of cap space.

- Donnie Edwards leaving via FA. This is a given. I feel sour about this because Donnie is a local guy greatly loved in the community, not to mention he has been a crucial part of this team for five years, but there's almost no chance of him getting a new contract in San Diego.

- Randall Godfrey either retiring or signing a one year deal with the Chargers. I have a feeling he might be back, because it seems like he can't leave the game even though he feels it's time.

- Keenan McCardell's option for 2007 not picked up, and McCardell will retire. Great career Keenan, but you're too expensive to bring back as basically a WR coach.

- Terrence Kiel will be cut. For all we know he will be in federal prison next year, the Chargers don't need that headache and AJ has already hinted that he could be gone.

- Michael Turner will get a 1st round tender, and the Jets will sign him, giving the Chargers the #25 pick in the draft.

- Shaun Phillips tendered with a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and the Chargers will match any offer that he might get, or just re-sign him prior to March 1. Steve Foley retires due to his pending lawsuit.


Free Agency - I don't see us doing much in free agency. The top player available at a position of need is Stallworth. He fits what we need for a vertical passing game, but he has been injured and will probably come at a steep cost. You guys brought up Ken Hamlin, and he is a guy I think could be pursued if he hits the market but ultimately I see the Seahawks re-signing him. Deon Grant and Michael Lewis are guys that will probably hit the market. One thing I could see is us bringing in a backup RB to replace Turner in FA, a guy like Buckhalter or Davenport, but those guys both have had injury concerns.


Draft -

1) Robert Meachem, WR Tennessee. VJ is pretty firm right now as the #1 reciever, but the whole offense would benefit from a real threat as a #2 reciever. Malcolm Floyd will definitely be in the mix, he showed some things last year. Parker is a reliable #3, but underwhelming as a #2. Meachem might be a top 10 pick in a normal draft, but in a WR draft like this you could find him in the 20's. He's just the type of guy to develop with VJ, he has speed, size and hands. The Chargers snag him with the #25 from the Jets.

1) Eric Weddle, SS, Utah. It's obvious that strong safety is the other obvious need and I like Weddle here the most. He is a great athlete, but also a tough guy and leader. We need a bit of a PR lift and Weddle would be a great contrast to Kiel. Merriweather would be a consideration in the 2nd but not here. Griffin and Weddle is probably going to come down to the combine, but I like Weddle more right now.

2) Brandon Siler, ILB, Florida. It looks like Wilhelm and Cooper are ready to step in at ILB with Dobbins behind them but behind those guys, there isn't much, and at OLB we need depth. Siler is a guy who could probably play ILB or OLB in the 3-4.

3) Dwayne Wright, RB, Fresno State. A physical inside runner to replace Michael Turner. He was productive in the WAC and he is also a local kid from San Diego.

3) Steve Breaston, PR/KR, Michigan. The Chargers are pretty desperate for a good return man, and a punt returner in particular. If Sproles can return from his injury, he and Cromartie would be the kick returners, but neither of them are adept at returning punts.

4) Paul Soliei, DT, Utah. Big NT who would be developed behind Jamal Williams and provide depth.

5) Mansfield Wrotto, OG, Georgia Tech. Could provide solid depth behind Dielman and Goff.

6) Laurent Robinson, WR, Illinois State. Sleeper WR who has the talent to work his way into the rotation at some point.

7) Andrew Carnahan, OT, Arizona State. Could have been a first day draft pick if he wasn't injured in his senior year. Depth at T is probably needed.

Pretty good group. Perhaps they could get that pick from the Jets, it would make sense because of the Jets-Chargers connection. I have Turner going to the Browns for the same reason. New OC Chud was SD's TE coach. A couple of things.
I do think they need to bring in some kind of veteran WR as an insurance policy. Of course they might feel fine with the guys they have, personally I was never a big fan of Parker's, and it looks McCardell is either going to be cut or continuing to be a ? mark. I am all for bring in a FA backup runner. If I do that I think I would wait until the second day to a pick a guy in the draft. I agree with the need for a PR, but I think I would combine that with a CB either Aaron Ross or Josh Wilson. They are going to need a CB in a year or two, since I think DFlo will probably walk. And not a big fan of the underachieving Breston. I would be happy with either Griffin or Weddle.
I have kind of cooled on Solari since I heard he was just another big guy at the Shrine Game and other guys out played him. He doesnt have that much experience, but with his size does have some upside, but I just think you won't getting much out of him for a couple of years. Probably a practice squad player at this point. But overall really a good group and well thought out.

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-06-2007, 09:43 AM
Here is what I think we will see happen this offseason -

- Kris Dielman will test FA, but eventually re-sign the Chargers. A.J. Smith has already acknowledged that re-signing Dielman is his top priority, and we have plenty of cap space.

- Donnie Edwards leaving via FA. This is a given. I feel sour about this because Donnie is a local guy greatly loved in the community, not to mention he has been a crucial part of this team for five years, but there's almost no chance of him getting a new contract in San Diego.

- Randall Godfrey either retiring or signing a one year deal with the Chargers. I have a feeling he might be back, because it seems like he can't leave the game even though he feels it's time.

- Keenan McCardell's option for 2007 not picked up, and McCardell will retire. Great career Keenan, but you're too expensive to bring back as basically a WR coach.

- Terrence Kiel will be cut. For all we know he will be in federal prison next year, the Chargers don't need that headache and AJ has already hinted that he could be gone.

- Michael Turner will get a 1st round tender, and the Jets will sign him, giving the Chargers the #25 pick in the draft.

- Shaun Phillips tendered with a 1st and 3rd round draft pick, and the Chargers will match any offer that he might get, or just re-sign him prior to March 1. Steve Foley retires due to his pending lawsuit.


Free Agency - I don't see us doing much in free agency. The top player available at a position of need is Stallworth. He fits what we need for a vertical passing game, but he has been injured and will probably come at a steep cost. You guys brought up Ken Hamlin, and he is a guy I think could be pursued if he hits the market but ultimately I see the Seahawks re-signing him. Deon Grant and Michael Lewis are guys that will probably hit the market. One thing I could see is us bringing in a backup RB to replace Turner in FA, a guy like Buckhalter or Davenport, but those guys both have had injury concerns.


Draft -

1) Robert Meachem, WR Tennessee. VJ is pretty firm right now as the #1 reciever, but the whole offense would benefit from a real threat as a #2 reciever. Malcolm Floyd will definitely be in the mix, he showed some things last year. Parker is a reliable #3, but underwhelming as a #2. Meachem might be a top 10 pick in a normal draft, but in a WR draft like this you could find him in the 20's. He's just the type of guy to develop with VJ, he has speed, size and hands. The Chargers snag him with the #25 from the Jets.

1) Eric Weddle, SS, Utah. It's obvious that strong safety is the other obvious need and I like Weddle here the most. He is a great athlete, but also a tough guy and leader. We need a bit of a PR lift and Weddle would be a great contrast to Kiel. Merriweather would be a consideration in the 2nd but not here. Griffin and Weddle is probably going to come down to the combine, but I like Weddle more right now.

2) Brandon Siler, ILB, Florida. It looks like Wilhelm and Cooper are ready to step in at ILB with Dobbins behind them but behind those guys, there isn't much, and at OLB we need depth. Siler is a guy who could probably play ILB or OLB in the 3-4.

3) Dwayne Wright, RB, Fresno State. A physical inside runner to replace Michael Turner. He was productive in the WAC and he is also a local kid from San Diego.

3) Steve Breaston, PR/KR, Michigan. The Chargers are pretty desperate for a good return man, and a punt returner in particular. If Sproles can return from his injury, he and Cromartie would be the kick returners, but neither of them are adept at returning punts.

4) Paul Soliei, DT, Utah. Big NT who would be developed behind Jamal Williams and provide depth.

5) Mansfield Wrotto, OG, Georgia Tech. Could provide solid depth behind Dielman and Goff.

6) Laurent Robinson, WR, Illinois State. Sleeper WR who has the talent to work his way into the rotation at some point.

7) Andrew Carnahan, OT, Arizona State. Could have been a first day draft pick if he wasn't injured in his senior year. Depth at T is probably needed.

I agree with almost everything you say, but I would rather draft Grubbs with the 25 because Goff is aging anyway and we need a replacement for him and Grubbs is JUST like Dielman. He is a converted D-lineman/TE and has only played guard for two years and he went to Auburn where he played one year next to Marcus Mcneill. So yeah, then get whatever safety(Griffin, Weddle, or Meriweather AJ will pick the right one with the other 1st rounder. In the 2nd we go with either Siler or one of the other receivers like Jason Hill or Johnnie Lee Higgins. Then with our two 3rd rounders maybe we get Tony Hunt if he is still available and then continue on your path.

bergo23
02-06-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm kinda excited to see somebody other than Rice in round 1 from Scott!!! Meachem could develop into a star alongside VJ........pushing Parker into the slot where his talent fit best.

I kinda think if Griffin is available, we'd go with him at #30, the safety need seems bigger.........but we'll see what may happen in Free Agency (Hamlin, Grant).

I have no idea what to think of Siler can he pass defend?

DonWoods33
02-06-2007, 01:37 PM
I'm kinda excited to see somebody other than Rice in round 1 from Scott!!! Meachem could develop into a star alongside VJ........pushing Parker into the slot where his talent fit best.

I kinda think if Griffin is available, we'd go with him at #30, the safety need seems bigger.........but we'll see what may happen in Free Agency (Hamlin, Grant).

I have no idea what to think of Siler can he pass defend?

I watched Florida a couple of times, and I like Siler he was very aggressive all over the field against Tenn. and GA as I recall, but I dont remember him esp. in pass defense.

FA Dielman resigned, Phillips resigned. Godfrey resigned, Jordan resigned, Bingham resigned. New FA Drew Bennett WR, Cory Buckhalter RB, Floyd Womack OG

RB Mike Turner traded to Cleve. for 2nd round, 6th round, and conditional 2-4th round pick 08.

Heres my new Chargers Mock.

1) FS Michael Griffin, Texas
2) WR Craig Davis, LSU (Pick aquired from Cleve. for M. Turner)
2) CB Aaron Ross, Texas
3) DE/OLB Dan Bazuin, Central Michigan
3) SS John Wendling, Wyoming
4) ILB Buster Davis, FSU
5) NT Quentin Echols, Kansas St
6) OT Stephon Heyer Maryland (Pick aquired from Cleve. for M. Turner)
7) WR Maurice Price, Charleston Southern

Griffin is a nice coverage safety, and pretty physical. The other thing is his Special teams skills, excellent gunner on punt coverage and he has blocked like nine punts in the last three years. I cant ever remember a blocked punt by the Chargers in my 30+ years of watching them. Davis gets over looked by Bowe but a lot of folks think he has first round tools, and he also has punt return skills, and was LSU's main PR this year. Ross is climbing up the boards, is kind of physical and has been Texas' leading punt returner for the last three years. Bazuin is an excellent pass rusher and could play the strong side in a 3-4. Wendling is very solid at 220# and has awareness in coverage. LB Davis is short but makes a lot of plays, kind of like Donnie Edwards who will probably wind up in AZ. He was being touted real high during the season but that has really cooled off. Echols has the prototype NT body and was productive during the Shrine Bowl according to reports. Heyer is big 6'6".330 and graded out better then the more heralded Jared Gaither on the MD line, and infact kept Gaither on the Right side. Price has an NFL body 6'1" 210#, big hands, and is fast, and played well at the Texas vs. the Nation All-star game.

DonWoods33
02-06-2007, 02:38 PM
Sorry for the double post, but do you guys believe you need to imporve on the team?

A ball hawking safety, and #1 WR, some OL depth. And a feeling of urgency that championship windows in the NFL don't stay open very long and that the meter is running to get it done.

San Diego Chicken
02-06-2007, 03:23 PM
Good mock DW. I like the Ross pick alot, I totally forgot about him. Maybe he could be our version of Terrence McGee.

sdpads24
02-06-2007, 05:10 PM
1) FS Michael Griffin, Texas
2) WR Craig Davis, LSU (Pick aquired from Cleve. for M. Turner)
2) CB Aaron Ross, Texas
3) DE/OLB Dan Bazuin, Central Michigan
3) SS John Wendling, Wyoming
4) ILB Buster Davis, FSU
5) NT Quentin Echols, Kansas St
6) OT Stephon Heyer Maryland (Pick aquired from Cleve. for M. Turner)
7) WR Maurice Price, Charleston Southern
I would pay money for the draft to happen in that way. Nice Job

sdpads24
02-06-2007, 08:57 PM
what do you guys think about Mike Doss coming to the chargers via free agency?

FOOTBALLFAN09
02-07-2007, 09:34 AM
what do you guys think about Mike Doss coming to the chargers via free agency?

No thank you.

sdpads24
02-07-2007, 02:28 PM
what do you guys think about Mike Doss coming to the chargers via free agency?

No thank you.
We are working on a Fantasy Off-season with the chargers over in the Fantasy Forum if any of you guys want to help out.

Canadian_kid16
02-08-2007, 06:55 PM
what do you guys think about Mike Doss coming to the chargers via free agency?

No thank you.
We are working on a Fantasy Off-season with the chargers over in the Fantasy Forum if any of you guys want to help out.

I'm also thinking of Ken Hamlin...

Tubby
02-10-2007, 04:14 AM
what do you guys think about Mike Doss coming to the chargers via free agency?

No thank you.
We are working on a Fantasy Off-season with the chargers over in the Fantasy Forum if any of you guys want to help out.

I'm also thinking of Ken Hamlin...

No

I'mAHustler
02-10-2007, 08:01 AM
Has Antonio Cromartie been doing well so far?

sdpads24
02-10-2007, 11:04 AM
Has Antonio Cromartie been doing well so far?
He has been playing like a rookie is expected to play. Next year he will get more playing time which will help him mature faster.

Ray Finkle
02-11-2007, 10:03 PM
How about Michael Lewis from the Eagles? Any interest in bringing him in as a free agent?

sdpads24
02-12-2007, 12:52 AM
How about Michael Lewis from the Eagles? Any interest in bringing him in as a free agent?
I think we would have better success getting a player through the draft which is what AJ likes doing rather than go and tangle in free agency.

bergo23
02-12-2007, 08:41 AM
Deon Grant has the better fit in terms of skill set for our needs at FA safety, maybe Hamlin.......I think McCree can slide over to SS, and give a "true center fielder" type FS a shot to improve our secondary and allow Jammer and DFlo to roam more freely knowing they have help over the top.

IndyColtScout
02-12-2007, 08:03 PM
Marty is out in SD.

sdpads24
02-12-2007, 08:33 PM
What the hell is going on? I wanted this to happen right after the playoff game not now. We better get someone good.

DWhitner20
02-12-2007, 09:28 PM
Didn't he get a 1 yr extension? wtf happened?

Ray Finkle
02-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Wow, did not see that coming.

Now sdpads24 needs to get a new sig.

sdpads24
02-12-2007, 11:10 PM
Wow, did not see that coming.

Now sdpads24 needs to get a new sig.
thanks for reminding me

bergo23
02-13-2007, 11:35 AM
sdpads24 may need another sig if Godfrey decides not to come back....and with no coaches to lead this team, why would he?! I would love to see Norm Chow lead us, he could co-exist with AJ, and make Rivers into a HOF'er QB.

Jimmy Johnson was another interesting name thrown around in the SDUT forums.....his relationship with the spanos' would be an in for him........if you want to coach in the NFl, I can't imagine a better job: 10 pro bowlers, a stud GM who will continue to get you good young talent in the draft. He obviously has the Lombardi's on his resume.

Cottrel sounds like a good coach for our 3-4, we'd have 3 minorities leading us (Chow, Shelmon, Cottrel) which would be very PC these days!!!!

Apriori
02-13-2007, 12:31 PM
sdpads24 may need another sig if Godfrey decides not to come back....and with no coaches to lead this team, why would he?! I would love to see Norm Chow lead us, he could co-exist with AJ, and make Rivers into a HOF'er QB.

Jimmy Johnson was another interesting name thrown around in the SDUT forums.....his relationship with the spanos' would be an in for him........if you want to coach in the NFl, I can't imagine a better job: 10 pro bowlers, a stud GM who will continue to get you good young talent in the draft. He obviously has the Lombardi's on his resume.

Cottrel sounds like a good coach for our 3-4, we'd have 3 minorities leading us (Chow, Shelmon, Cottrel) which would be very PC these days!!!!

chow would be a good coach since he is asian..and san diego has a big arse navy base here..im thinking san diego will go after an offensive minded coach myself...just praying its not HOLE in the face norv

bergo23
02-14-2007, 06:17 AM
I like what AJ is doing focusing on D head coach in his initial search. Rivera and Singletary would be good coaches for the long haul....and this team is built for the long haul.

Shelmon will do fine as a OC, but we need a good young talent behind him next year in case he leaves after a poor season offensively. Chow would be the dream coordinator down the line.

I am getting super excited about John Wendling as an end of the second round pick for us..........if he runs a sub 4.4 at the combine, he could be our guy, I love his size and speed combo. Super smart kid too: recruited by Harvard, Stanford coming out of HS. He may not be as good in coverage as Weddle........but he would be a solid fit of need/value at the end of the second round.....and Weddle should be gone, heck the Pats may look at him as a combo guy in the first round, especially if they don't franchise Samuel.

SDSupaChargers
02-14-2007, 11:10 PM
I want Rex Ryan or Singeltary. Both are familiar with the 3-4 and I think that both would do a great job in San Diego.

I also like Wendling a lot, but I would rather have Meriweather at the end of the first. He just as so much talent.

sdpads24
02-14-2007, 11:45 PM
I want Rex Ryan or Singeltary. Both are familiar with the 3-4 and I think that both would do a great job in San Diego.

I also like Wendling a lot, but I would rather have Meriweather at the end of the first. He just as so much talent.
I would love to have Meriwather but do you really think AJ is gonna take another risk with a character guy at safety right after the release of Terrence Kiel? I kinda doubt it. Best case scenario is that maybe Ginn falls to 30 and and either Wendling or Weddle or even Rouse in the 2nd. Also, what do you guys think about the possibility of hiring Pete Carroll and firing AJ right after the draft and giving Caroll more decision making ability? I heard rumors of that happening but I think we would be much better off keeping AJ and getting a guy like Rex Ryan and hope that Shelmon works out as OC.

DonWoods33
02-15-2007, 04:13 PM
I want Rex Ryan or Singeltary. Both are familiar with the 3-4 and I think that both would do a great job in San Diego.

I also like Wendling a lot, but I would rather have Meriweather at the end of the first. He just as so much talent.
I would love to have Meriwather but do you really think AJ is gonna take another risk with a character guy at safety right after the release of Terrence Kiel? I kinda doubt it. Best case scenario is that maybe Ginn falls to 30 and and either Wendling or Weddle or even Rouse in the 2nd. Also, what do you guys think about the possibility of hiring Pete Carroll and firing AJ right after the draft and giving Caroll more decision making ability? I heard rumors of that happening but I think we would be much better off keeping AJ and getting a guy like Rex Ryan and hope that Shelmon works out as OC.

Carroll is being kicked around a lot, but he's going to want huge coin, and all the say. Which is why were are in the fine mess, now. Looks like Singletary or Ryan too me. I think I like Mike. Of course I wanted them to draft him in 81 and was po'd when they took another RB. Oh the other hand if they fire Marty, to hire Ted Cotrell I think I might have to shoot somebody. The offensive guy I like is Ralph Friedgen, OC under Bobby Ross, now head coach at MD. He's done a real nice job there, and was the Chargers best play caller I ever saw. But the only offensive guy's name I have seen thrown around is Norv Turner. I haven't seen where they asked to talk to Chow.

Cerni88
02-15-2007, 04:58 PM
i haven't heard them talk to norm chow either. but norm chow did coach philip rivers when he was at NC State. so the current candidates are mike singletary, rex ryan, mike zimmer, norv turner and ron rivera. two coaches who i don't think will be hired are norv turner and ron rivera. norv turner has never been a very good head coach. i would have no problem if he became the offensive coordinator, but his history tells us that he just isn't a good head coach. ron rivera, IMO is gonna be a good head coach...for somebody else. he runs the 4-3 and i don't think we are going to make a change considering our front 7 has been so good the last couple years. (then again, i guess we ought to consider that the linebacker unit might be a little thin come next year. merriman is really the only star. i don't think phillips is that great. and edwards is most likely not coming back.) i think rex ryan and mike zimmer would be the two best coaches because they have had great defenses the last few years and learned from two very good coaches in bill parcells and brian billick. mike singletary is a mystery to me right now. idk what to think of him. he doesn't have very much experience as a coach. if it were up to me, i'd take ryan or zimmers.

San Diego Chicken
02-15-2007, 09:56 PM
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/16/government/794chargers021507.txt

Good read here about the Chargers stadium situation. Since the Jan 1st when other cities could begin talking to the Chargers, nowhere else has made a legitimate offer and it looks like the main contenders are the SD suburbs, National City, Chula Vista and Oceanside.

For guys in the area, which of these locations would you guys prefer? National City seems close enough to downtown and the harbor attractions to be a good spot for a stadium.

sdpads24
02-15-2007, 10:14 PM
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/16/government/794chargers021507.txt

Good read here about the Chargers stadium situation. Since the Jan 1st when other cities could begin talking to the Chargers, nowhere else has made a legitimate offer and it looks like the main contenders are the SD suburbs, National City, Chula Vista and Oceanside.

For guys in the area, which of these locations would you guys prefer? National City seems close enough to downtown and the harbor attractions to be a good spot for a stadium.
Boy I'm glad the chargers are staying in san diego. That whole talk of possibly moving to LA really scared me. As for the location of the stadium, I would like too see it in National City because it's closer to me and the whole dontown area would be cool, but where would they put it? I've heard they would take out a golf course but that involves all kinds of work. Oceanside would be a good possibility aswell with all kinds of lansd out there. It would help attract a lot of LA chargers fans but the majority of the charger fans that go to the stadium live in Chula Vista so all of them have their pro's and con's.

San Diego Chicken
02-15-2007, 11:15 PM
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2007/02/16/government/794chargers021507.txt

Good read here about the Chargers stadium situation. Since the Jan 1st when other cities could begin talking to the Chargers, nowhere else has made a legitimate offer and it looks like the main contenders are the SD suburbs, National City, Chula Vista and Oceanside.

For guys in the area, which of these locations would you guys prefer? National City seems close enough to downtown and the harbor attractions to be a good spot for a stadium.
Boy I'm glad the chargers are staying in san diego. That whole talk of possibly moving to LA really scared me. As for the location of the stadium, I would like too see it in National City because it's closer to me and the whole dontown area would be cool, but where would they put it? I've heard they would take out a golf course but that involves all kinds of work. Oceanside would be a good possibility aswell with all kinds of lansd out there. It would help attract a lot of LA chargers fans but the majority of the charger fans that go to the stadium live in Chula Vista so all of them have their pro's and con's.


Here is the site that I've heard proposed -

proposed site (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=bay%20marina%20drive%20national%20city%20ca&ie=UTF-8&z=14&ll=32.655708,-117.11709&spn=0.021968,0.066605&t=k&om=0&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl)

The land is currently owned by the SD port authority, and as you can see there is not alot of space there, so it would be a big project in terms of infastructure. But it's a nice locale, right off the 5, close to water, with a view of the skyline, and the bridge.

Right now National City is probably the leader in the clubhouse, but as long as the team stays somewhere in the county, I'm happy.

San Diego Chicken
02-15-2007, 11:30 PM
Here is the proposed Oceanside site -

link (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=2323%20Greenbrier%20Dr%2C%20Oceanside%2C%20CA&ie=UTF-8&z=14&ll=33.207885,-117.361965&spn=0.021831,0.066605&t=k&om=0&iwloc=addr&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl)


Chula Vista has proposed a few different locations according to the Union Tribune.

bergo23
02-16-2007, 05:42 PM
If we go with one of the candidates from this week, I hope its Singletary....or Rivera with Singletary as DC...........we need #50 to help lead at least our D.

I think our O will be fine with Shelmon no matter who takes over.

I would have liked to see Chow interviewed, but he may be like Norm with no HC experience..........just a milktoast type, not a strong enough leader....those guys can be great coordinators, but lousy head coaches.

Ultimately I hope we go with a D minded head coach, and leave the offense alone.

SDSupaChargers
02-17-2007, 12:16 PM
I want Rex Ryan or Singeltary. Both are familiar with the 3-4 and I think that both would do a great job in San Diego.

I also like Wendling a lot, but I would rather have Meriweather at the end of the first. He just as so much talent.
I would love to have Meriwather but do you really think AJ is gonna take another risk with a character guy at safety right after the release of Terrence Kiel? I kinda doubt it. Best case scenario is that maybe Ginn falls to 30 and and either Wendling or Weddle or even Rouse in the 2nd. Also, what do you guys think about the possibility of hiring Pete Carroll and firing AJ right after the draft and giving Caroll more decision making ability? I heard rumors of that happening but I think we would be much better off keeping AJ and getting a guy like Rex Ryan and hope that Shelmon works out as OC.

From what I've heard, Meriweather's character issues are blown out of proporsion and that he has been interviewing very well. We've all heard it before but he legally owned the gun and the stomping incident was a very heat of the moment immature act and most of his team was partaking in similar actions. But yeah, I hear he interviews very well and I think he's going to sneak into the first and I think it will probably be to us unless Griffin is there or a top talent drops to us i.e. Willis, Ginn, or Carriker.

I think Caroll is going to want too much control and I honestly don't think he would be very successful.

sdpads24
02-17-2007, 09:05 PM
I want Rex Ryan or Singeltary. Both are familiar with the 3-4 and I think that both would do a great job in San Diego.

I also like Wendling a lot, but I would rather have Meriweather at the end of the first. He just as so much talent.
I would love to have Meriwather but do you really think AJ is gonna take another risk with a character guy at safety right after the release of Terrence Kiel? I kinda doubt it. Best case scenario is that maybe Ginn falls to 30 and and either Wendling or Weddle or even Rouse in the 2nd. Also, what do you guys think about the possibility of hiring Pete Carroll and firing AJ right after the draft and giving Caroll more decision making ability? I heard rumors of that happening but I think we would be much better off keeping AJ and getting a guy like Rex Ryan and hope that Shelmon works out as OC.

From what I've heard, Meriweather's character issues are blown out of proporsion and that he has been interviewing very well. We've all heard it before but he legally owned the gun and the stomping incident was a very heat of the moment immature act and most of his team was partaking in similar actions. But yeah, I hear he interviews very well and I think he's going to sneak into the first and I think it will probably be to us unless Griffin is there or a top talent drops to us i.e. Willis, Ginn, or Carriker.

I think Caroll is going to want too much control and I honestly don't think he would be very successful.
I hope that's true about Merriweather because he would be a great addition to our team. I heard somewhere that he didn't really respond to coaching that well at the senior bowl and that could be a problem. I'm hoping that he has a bad combine and drops to us in the second.

jivixzoner
02-17-2007, 11:37 PM
The coaching staff is falling apart :(

M.O.T.H.
02-17-2007, 11:44 PM
The coaching staff is falling apart :(

what coaching staff?

jivixzoner
02-17-2007, 11:47 PM
they lost almost all of the coaches..

sdpads24
02-17-2007, 11:47 PM
The coaching staff is falling apart :(
In AJ I trust

M.O.T.H.
02-17-2007, 11:50 PM
they lost almost all of the coaches..

obviously... i was attempting to make a joke at your lack of a coaching staff.

Anyway...

Brian Stewart is next.

jivixzoner
02-17-2007, 11:52 PM
they lost almost all of the coaches..

obviously... i was attempting to make a joke at your lack of a coaching staff.

Anyway...

Brian Stewart is next.

Well obviously the joke was lame...so i thought u were serious

Anyway...

sdpads24
02-17-2007, 11:53 PM
they lost almost all of the coaches..

obviously... i was attempting to make a joke at your lack of a coaching staff.

Anyway...

Brian Stewart is next.
Thats an interesting possibility, I personaly would rather see Wayne Nunnely, our d-line coach as a def. coordinater.

M.O.T.H.
02-17-2007, 11:57 PM
I really wanted Greg Manusky for the boys d. coord but, JJ waited so long to name Big Wade HC... that we missed out on our chance.

Like I said...

Brian Stewart (my top choice) and John Pagano are still two possibilities for the Boys job.

sdpads24
02-19-2007, 01:29 AM
It has been reported that Rex Ryan and Norv Turner are front-runners for the head coaching job. I have my fingers crossed for Ryan. I think we'll know in the next several days.

jivixzoner
02-19-2007, 03:17 AM
Well off the coaching subject i think chargers need a WR very badly i think they should get, Robert Meachem, Tennessee.

sdpads24
02-19-2007, 11:17 AM
Well, it looks like Norv Turner is our coach. He isn't the guy I was looking forward to and it makes me sick at the mere mention of his name. I don't understand this. He better bring us deep into the playoffs next year or he's outta here.

Cerni88
02-19-2007, 11:19 AM
Well, it looks like Norv Turner is our coach. He isn't the guy I was looking forward to and it makes me sick at the mere mention of his name. I don't understand this. He better bring us deep into the playoffs next year or he's outta here.

word...

amiyahomiojs
02-19-2007, 12:55 PM
Well, it looks like Norv Turner is our coach. He isn't the guy I was looking forward to and it makes me sick at the mere mention of his name. I don't understand this. He better bring us deep into the playoffs next year or he's outta here.

word...
Jeez this sucks, have fun missing the playoffs.

cheesehead10790
02-19-2007, 01:04 PM
The coaching staff is falling apart :(
In AJ I trust



:lol:

jivixzoner
02-19-2007, 02:57 PM
Well, it looks like Norv Turner is our coach. He isn't the guy I was looking forward to and it makes me sick at the mere mention of his name. I don't understand this. He better bring us deep into the playoffs next year or he's outta here.

word...
Jeez this sucks, have fun missing the playoffs.

We're not going to miss the playoffs LT won't allow that.

amiyahomiojs
02-19-2007, 03:32 PM
Well, it looks like Norv Turner is our coach. He isn't the guy I was looking forward to and it makes me sick at the mere mention of his name. I don't understand this. He better bring us deep into the playoffs next year or he's outta here.

word...
Jeez this sucks, have fun missing the playoffs.

We're not going to miss the playoffs LT won't allow that.

I hope he won't this, but I really don't like the idea of Norv.

Good Luck.

San Diego Chicken
02-20-2007, 01:32 AM
Overall guys, you can't be terribly dissapointed with how this all worked out. The team is keeping both offensive and defensive playbooks, and adds two coaches generally considered to be top coordinators around the league.

I think we can all agree that the loss of both coordinators was bigger than the loss of Marty. Therefore finding guys who could replace Wade and Cam would be ultimately most important. Shelmon doesn't seem ready, so Turner was brought in and has a great playcalling pedigree. He also is not changing the offensive playbook; Cam is adequently replaced. Wade's understudy Cottrell brought in to preserve the defensive playbook, and as an extra bonus, Rivera is brought in to add another creative mind to the fold. Wade adequently replaced.

The only question becomes the leadership, and team spokesman, but LT is the overall team spokesman and team leader, and Rivers and LT are solid offensive leaders. If Godfrey stays, he and Merriman are the defensive leadership. The team has a good mix of veterans and young players that are professionals and don't need a bunch of rah rah stuff.

Overall the pieces are here as a staff to get to a Super Bowl next season. That should be the goal and it should be on the players and not the coaches if they underachieve again. There won't be any excuse of having to learn a new scheme, both schemes are intact and two head coach-quality coaches were brought on board, and the relationships all around look harmonious so far. Rivera calling Turner and asking in is a VERY positive sign, no ego's there and AJ signing off on it just affirms that. It looks like everyone is going to be all business going into the draft and training camp. If we address our needs in the draft sufficiently as we always do, nothing to worry about here in 2007.

bergo23
02-20-2007, 11:11 AM
Norv will be fine, no he doesn't have much charisma....but neither do Billichick and Dungy. He didn't have any where near the talent we have in Washington and Oakland.

Now lets focus on building a championship D further with getting a safety and ILB in the draft. OLine will be a concern as well with Dielman almost for sure leaving.

Rivera will only make our D stronger, and he will be a great HC candidate if Norv doesn't get us to the playoffs.

Cerni88
02-20-2007, 01:38 PM
third time's the charm.

San Diego Chicken
02-21-2007, 03:47 AM
Good news -- Shaun Phillips extended -

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=chargersphillips&prov=st&type=lgns

Here's a cool stat for you - Phillips has started only 17 career games, but he has 22.5 career sacks. Not to shabby for a 4th round draft choice.

bergo23
02-21-2007, 09:07 AM
Phillips was definately the more important sign than Dielman, who I think is gone....which will make trading Burner to get another day one pick for a guard or RT (moving Olivea inside) imperative. AJ will get R dun!!!!

I am excited to see who we add at safety and WR. We need another good young WR to develop alongside VJ.

C-Thomas
02-21-2007, 09:33 PM
as a jets fan i have a quick question for all the chargers fans....would u rather get a high round 2 pick for michael turner, or put a first tound tag on him and keep him as a backup for a year then lose him to free agency the next year and get nothing in return?? i can see the positives of keeping LT healthy especially with all the talent u guys have and the best shot at winning the superbowl next year...just wondering what ya all think

sdpads24
02-21-2007, 10:14 PM
as a jets fan i have a quick question for all the chargers fans....would u rather get a high round 2 pick for michael turner, or put a first tound tag on him and keep him as a backup for a year then lose him to free agency the next year and get nothing in return?? i can see the positives of keeping LT healthy especially with all the talent u guys have and the best shot at winning the superbowl next year...just wondering what ya all think
I would love to keep Turner. Without him, LT would not of had the great season he did. I think it's very reallistic that we would keep him for one more year to keep LT as healthy as possible as he gets older. Knowing AJ Smith though, it's likely that he would give him up with the way he values draft picks. I could easily see either way happening and it''s too hard too know for sure right now.

bergo23
02-22-2007, 06:15 AM
That #37 pick or whatever the Jets have might yield a player we could use....but we could get the Browns early round 2 pick as well. I do believe we can find a serviceable RB late in day 1 to replace turner if we go that route.

It would be hard to pass up a top 40 pick for Turner....especially if Dielman goes and we can get a guy like Blaylock to place him.

Cerni88
02-22-2007, 05:11 PM
i think maybe we should keep turner. I have a feeling LT is going to be on the cover of Madden. I hope they put Peyton manning on there instead though. or Rex Grossman, he pretty much won it for them...

but anyway, Keeping LT healthy is a big priority. I also think, that we shouldn't draft a safety, at least not in the 1st. Has no one noticed our ILB problem? Donnie Edwards is likely gone and he was our ILB.

JAllen18MVP
02-22-2007, 06:35 PM
Norv Turner is great

sdpads24
02-22-2007, 09:55 PM
Norv Turner is great
Well, right now and it might look like a good hire too us, it will be a very bad hire if we miss out on the playoffs

immuhguy10
02-22-2007, 09:59 PM
hey im in this gm league thing and im the chargers gm...and i have the #11 pick in the draft after a bunch of trades and all this stuff happening....anwyays...im still thin at safety...i got offered this trade:

Indy gets: #11 pick
SD gets: Bob Sanders, #32 pick

to me its a no brainer and i take it but i got this guy on my staff and hes a chargers fan and says sanders isnt what the chargers need...said he doesnt fit their defensive scheme. i wanna hear from more chargers fans...let me know what U all think...thanks...

sdpads24
02-22-2007, 10:13 PM
hey im in this gm league thing and im the chargers gm...and i have the #11 pick in the draft after a bunch of trades and all this stuff happening....anwyays...im still thin at safety...i got offered this trade:

Indy gets: #11 pick
SD gets: Bob Sanders, #32 pick

to me its a no brainer and i take it but i got this guy on my staff and hes a chargers fan and says sanders isnt what the chargers need...said he doesnt fit their defensive scheme. i wanna hear from more chargers fans...let me know what U all think...thanks...
Are you doing this fantasy league on this site? I think it's a great trade and an impact player like Sanders would make a difference no matter what scheme is might be in. What did you give up do be in the 11th pick?

immuhguy10
02-22-2007, 10:16 PM
nah its a different site...

in this league ive traded so that, phillips is gone, turner gone, florence gone,kiel gone

but i brought in demarcus ware, deion branch, bob sanders, nathan vasher, got the #32 pick, #40 pick, no 3rd and some later picks...

crazy offseason for me..and thanks for the sanders response...that was my thoguth...that was too good an offer to pass up...yea his health is a concern, but a rish worth taking to me.

i gave up shaun phillips and a mid/late 2nd for #11.

i wouldnt have givin up phillips but i got ware and i couldtn pass him up.

sdpads24
02-22-2007, 10:41 PM
nah its a different site...

in this league ive traded so that, phillips is gone, turner gone, florence gone,kiel gone

but i brought in demarcus ware, deion branch, bob sanders, nathan vasher, got the #32 pick, #40 pick, no 3rd and some later picks...

crazy offseason for me..and thanks for the sanders response...that was my thoguth...that was too good an offer to pass up...yea his health is a concern, but a rish worth taking to me.

i gave up shaun phillips and a mid/late 2nd for #11.

i wouldnt have givin up phillips but i got ware and i couldtn pass him up.

Great Off-season No doubt about it. Getting Ware is quite impressive. If that actually happened, I would expect nothing less than the superbowl. (I already do)

bergo23
02-24-2007, 05:23 PM
I just remember Allen being a 2-3 round guy then the combine showed he was back from injury and the phins picked him in the middle of the first.

If Wendling's 40 is 4.4 or below and his triangle #'s are what they are projected.....this kid may have what we are looking for.......on the football field which is most important, but the peripherals are exciting!!! I am also glad we got this new secondary coach, apparently well respected around the league as one of the best in the biz!!!! We'll get somebody who will help us in the secondary....if its not Wendling, it will be Mike Griffin.........and I'd be happy with Weddle too!!!

jivixzoner
02-25-2007, 09:07 PM
i think maybe we should keep turner. I have a feeling LT is going to be on the cover of Madden. I hope they put Peyton manning on there instead though. or Rex Grossman, he pretty much won it for them...

but anyway, Keeping LT healthy is a big priority. I also think, that we shouldn't draft a safety, at least not in the 1st. Has no one noticed our ILB problem? Donnie Edwards is likely gone and he was our ILB.

I know you didn't say Rex won it for them, cause it was the defense that won it
and they did it without tommie harris.

snobdmat
02-26-2007, 12:21 PM
maybe i forgot already, but didnt the bears lose???

CC.SD
02-26-2007, 03:38 PM
He's saying that Rex won the Superbowl for the Colts. Which is pretty much true.

SDSupaChargers
02-26-2007, 09:11 PM
I just remember Allen being a 2-3 round guy then the combine showed he was back from injury and the phins picked him in the middle of the first.

If Wendling's 40 is 4.4 or below and his triangle #'s are what they are projected.....this kid may have what we are looking for.......on the football field which is most important, but the peripherals are exciting!!! I am also glad we got this new secondary coach, apparently well respected around the league as one of the best in the biz!!!! We'll get somebody who will help us in the secondary....if its not Wendling, it will be Mike Griffin.........and I'd be happy with Weddle too!!!

Even with a good combine I doubt he sneaks into the first. Lack of competition is definitely a concern even if he puts up big workout numbers. I say go with Griffin, Weddle, or Meriweather in the first or if we want to go reciever, guard, or ILB in the first then get either Wendling or Michael Johnson from Arizona in the end of the second.

bergo23
02-27-2007, 09:06 PM
Even with a good combine I doubt he sneaks into the first. Lack of competition is definitely a concern even if he puts up big workout numbers. I say go with Griffin, Weddle, or Meriweather in the first or if we want to go reciever, guard, or ILB in the first then get either Wendling or Michael Johnson from Arizona in the end of the second.

Now that the combine is done.....Weddle and Wendling are two S's I hope we get one of 'em if Griffin is gone at #30 (I just don't see AJ rolling the dice with Merriweather, although I'd love him too!!). The two W's both look to have measurables and intanglibles that we need at safety...both will be available at #30, and one will probably still be there at #62. If we get one of those guys and Jason Hill that would be an awesome tandem going into our two 3rd round picks, which could be OLine (dielman replacement) and ILB (backup behind Coop, Wilhelm and Dobbins)...I'd really like James Marten at RT, move Olivea inside to replace Dielman. We succeeded with a rookie LT, why not a RT?!

If we trade Burner, we could get Blalock or Grubbs potentially to replace Dielman..but the above scenario with Marten (or Oben if the rook can't beat him out) would be workable.

DonWoods33
02-28-2007, 10:44 AM
Now that the combine is done.....Weddle and Wendling are two S's I hope we get one of 'em if Griffin is gone at #30 (I just don't see AJ rolling the dice with Merriweather, although I'd love him too!!). The two W's both look to have measurables and intanglibles that we need at safety...both will be available at #30, and one will probably still be there at #62. If we get one of those guys and Jason Hill that would be an awesome tandem going into our two 3rd round picks, which could be OLine (dielman replacement) and ILB (backup behind Coop, Wilhelm and Dobbins)...I'd really like James Marten at RT, move Olivea inside to replace Dielman. We succeeded with a rookie LT, why not a RT?!

If we trade Burner, we could get Blalock or Grubbs potentially to replace Dielman..but the above scenario with Marten (or Oben if the rook can't beat him out) would be workable.

I am hoping we get both Griffin and Wendling. I am not a big McCree fan, and only see him playing at the level he is now, which is average. I would not be surprised if he doesnt make it to the end of his current deal. In a year or two I think Wendling at SS and Griffin at FS would be a real good tandem. Have to see if either of them is available at 30 and 62 respectively.

bergo23
02-28-2007, 02:51 PM
I am hoping we get both Griffin and Wendling. I am not a big McCree fan, and only see him playing at the level he is now, which is average. I would not be surprised if he doesnt make it to the end of his current deal. In a year or two I think Wendling at SS and Griffin at FS would be a real good tandem. Have to see if either of them is available at 30 and 62 respectively.

That would be AWESOME!!! I just got from Griffin's chat on ESPN.com...he said he is best in Tampa 2 or Cover 2 (which I know about) and "Man Free"....do the Bolts play "man free"........seemed like his preference would be for teams that don't play our style?!

DonWoods33
02-28-2007, 04:41 PM
That would be AWESOME!!! I just got from Griffin's chat on ESPN.com...he said he is best in Tampa 2 or Cover 2 (which I know about) and "Man Free"....do the Bolts play "man free"........seemed like his preference would be for teams that don't play our style?!

Not sure. I believe "Man Free" is the FS playing the deep center, and either he picks up the deepest pattern, or free roams to the ball. I would think most the Tampa 2 stuff is covering a specific area on the field, depending on down and distance. The main thing is him covering over the top (deepest pattern), while also being able to make plays in front of him too. So not biting on play action and other recognizion stuff is very important. I think he using techinical terms to say "I can play in any system"

bergo23
03-04-2007, 06:45 AM
With them getting Adalius Thomas and likely Welker (I don't see the cap strapped Dolphins matching 7 year s38.5mill, which is ironically a similar contract Deion Branch got)....I see them going DB (likely Griffin or Nelson) with one of those 2 picks, I thought they might have to take a WR or OLB with their first two picks before they got Thomas and likely Welker.

I think our chances of getting Griffin just shrunk, but they may have taken the guy even without these signings, as Harrison is ancient...and their other safety needs upgrading.

The Pats are loaded for one more run with that D, and Welker may be a perfect slot receiver for Brady.......ugh. Nobody said it would be easy, I just hope we go up to New England and show 'em one more time who the better team is.

sdpads24
03-04-2007, 06:33 PM
I think that our chances of getting either one of the top 4 safeties is pretty good right now. Ie-Landry, Nelson, Griffen, Merriweather.

bantx
03-04-2007, 06:35 PM
If we get griffen, we should really think about getting a wr, phillip needs more targets other than gates.

sdpads24
03-04-2007, 06:51 PM
If we get griffen, we should really think about getting a wr, phillip needs more targets other than gates.
Ya we really got lucky this year because the S and WR positions are so deep coming out of the draft. If we can't get a good safety, a good WR is sure to be there and then we can get a very good safety in the second. AJ is setting himself up for another fantastic draft.

San Diego Chicken
03-05-2007, 04:21 AM
Ya we really got lucky this year because the S and WR positions are so deep coming out of the draft. If we can't get a good safety, a good WR is sure to be there and then we can get a very good safety in the second. AJ is setting himself up for another fantastic draft.

I was doing a mock a few days ago, and there was a big run on safeties, to the point where I'm not sure a good one would be there at the bottom of round 2. In the end I had us taking Tanard Jackson and moving him to FS (which I'm not sure is feasible or not)

BoltHype
03-05-2007, 12:18 PM
I was doing a mock a few days ago, and there was a big run on safeties, to the point where I'm not sure a good one would be there at the bottom of round 2. In the end I had us taking Tanard Jackson and moving him to FS (which I'm not sure is feasible or not)

dont want tanard jackson. could be a headcase. we need someone like Gattis who is a model citizen on and off the field.

DonWoods33
03-05-2007, 03:40 PM
dont want tanard jackson. could be a headcase. we need someone like Gattis who is a model citizen on and off the field.

Your riding the Gattis bandwagon long and hard. Got to say you stick to your guns. What exactly was the problem with Jackson? Syracuse was awful this year. Ex Donkey DC Gregg Robinson is the HC.

BoltHype
03-05-2007, 05:35 PM
Your riding the Gattis bandwagon long and hard. Got to say you stick to your guns. What exactly was the problem with Jackson? Syracuse was awful this year. Ex Donkey DC Gregg Robinson is the HC.

i see absolutely no downsides to Gattis. Even Scott's report says that most of the flaws in his game are correctable. he doesnt do anything flashy, but is just a solid, smart, steady player. and he also plays a mean special teams gunner.

as for jackson, i want to stay away from anyone with character questions. we had too many off-the-field incidents last year and we dont need those types of distractions.

LTCharger21
03-05-2007, 08:24 PM
I've been dreaming of us drafting Michael Griffin for a while now and I think he would make a great impact on our secondary, but it looks like our chances at getting him are slipping away fast. NE has addressed their LB and partially thier WR concerns (with the signings of Adalius Thomas and Wes Welker) and it is looking as though their going to address safety with one of their first round picks (and if they do Im pretty sure they will take him). The only way I see us still getting him is if we trade up, but even the chances at that are bleak. We tendered Turner with a 1st and 3rd and most teams looking for a back got one or will get one in the draft.
I know there are other safeties in this draft, but I think he would make the biggest impact. What do you all think of this?

bantx
03-05-2007, 08:32 PM
I've been saying this and i will keep saying it he's coming to chargers end of story. No one better get him.

LTCharger21
03-05-2007, 08:40 PM
I really want him too, but our chances at him are shrinking by the day, because it really looks like the Patriots are planning on drafting a safety in the first and Griffin seems like a kind of guy they would sign. I would REALLY hate if they drafted him.

sdpads24
03-05-2007, 08:41 PM
I really want him too, but our chances at him are shrinking by the day, because it really looks like the Patriots are planning on drafting a safety in the first and Griffin seems like a kind of guy they would sign. I would REALLY hate if they drafted him.

It is very possible that he could go earlier than that.

LTCharger21
03-05-2007, 08:48 PM
Yeah, it all depends on what the other teams want to address though. Im just hoping everything works out where we get him.
There are some that project him as a second round pick (I don't know why) so I hoping we can get Griffin

bantx
03-05-2007, 10:05 PM
theres alot of saftys out i can see patriots prossibly pick up, reggie nelson, brandon merriweather, eric weddle, aaron rouse, josh gattis, just some of the saftys that could be picked up if they fall that far. chances are still high for me.

bergo23
03-06-2007, 11:55 AM
yeah, Griffin is not going to be possible at #30....I have a feeling the S and WR we would like to add, just aren't going to match value: Jason Hill and Wendling aren't rated high enough to pick at #30, but will be gone by #62 (likely). I just hope AJ salvages something better than Sammy Davis at #30....there could be some good guards to groom behind Goff at #30, I wouldn't mind that.

San Diego Chicken
03-06-2007, 03:37 PM
yeah, Griffin is not going to be possible at #30....I have a feeling the S and WR we would like to add, just aren't going to match value: Jason Hill and Wendling aren't rated high enough to pick at #30, but will be gone by #62 (likely). I just hope AJ salvages something better than Sammy Davis at #30....there could be some good guards to groom behind Goff at #30, I wouldn't mind that.

I dont think taking Hill at #30 would be a reach at all. In fact, he is the perfect guy to put next to VJ for the forseeable future.

LTCharger21
03-06-2007, 06:17 PM
I don't know about Hill. I just don't think anyone would be talking about him if he didn't run a 4.3. He may be a good one in the future, but everyone talked about his speed before that 40, football speed and 40 times are different things. I don't know if his 40 time translates to the field. But maybe Im just rambling because I never saw him play.

San Diego Chicken
03-06-2007, 06:50 PM
I don't know about Hill. I just don't think anyone would be talking about him if he didn't run a 4.3. He may be a good one in the future, but everyone talked about his speed before that 40, football speed and 40 times are different things. I don't know if his 40 time translates to the field. But maybe Im just rambling because I never saw him play.

I've seen him play quite a bit. He had a better career than Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe, and arguably Ted Ginn (as a reciever). He was the best deep threat reciever in the Pac 10, especially in his junior and senior years. We need a deep threat reciever -- Turner's offense needs field stretchers who can get downfield and make plays. You guys saw the transition last year when Rivers took over. With Brees, it was alot of dink and dunk. With Rivers and his stronger arm, our playcalling really changed and stressed more intermediate and deep routes, but to mixed results because of a lack of speed and playmaking ability downfield. That's why some of the bigger guys, like Jarrett, Bowe, Rice etc., dont interest me as much. We already have VJ, he's our big guy and he's quicker and faster than all of those guys anyway. The only WR's I really want are Meachem and Ginn (probably out of range) Hill (in our 1st round range) or Allison (2nd round range)

For his career, Hill averaged over 18 yards per catch. He is also very good at running after the catch and taking short plays or reverses and turning them into big plays. Speed isnt the only good thing about him. He produced in college and was a noteworthy player, but unlike some recievers, he has the physical skillset to back it up.

LTCharger21
03-06-2007, 10:21 PM
I've seen him play quite a bit. He had a better career than Robert Meachem, Dwayne Bowe, and arguably Ted Ginn (as a reciever). He was the best deep threat reciever in the Pac 10, especially in his junior and senior years. We need a deep threat reciever -- Turner's offense needs field stretchers who can get downfield and make plays. You guys saw the transition last year when Rivers took over. With Brees, it was alot of dink and dunk. With Rivers and his stronger arm, our playcalling really changed and stressed more intermediate and deep routes, but to mixed results because of a lack of speed and playmaking ability downfield. That's why some of the bigger guys, like Jarrett, Bowe, Rice etc., dont interest me as much. We already have VJ, he's our big guy and he's quicker and faster than all of those guys anyway. The only WR's I really want are Meachem and Ginn (probably out of range) Hill (in our 1st round range) or Allison (2nd round range)

For his career, Hill averaged over 18 yards per catch. He is also very good at running after the catch and taking short plays or reverses and turning them into big plays. Speed isnt the only good thing about him. He produced in college and was a noteworthy player, but unlike some recievers, he has the physical skillset to back it up.

Thanks for the info on Hill, but do you know what happened to him his senior year? He didn't put up very good numbers. I agree with you on getting a reciever to stretch the field, but Meachem and Hill are the only two Im interested in for the 1st (if and only if Griffin is gone), but I DON'T want Ginn. He may do good on special teams, but I don't believe in drafting returns in the 1st.

San Diego Chicken
03-06-2007, 11:37 PM
Thanks for the info on Hill, but do you know what happened to him his senior year? He didn't put up very good numbers. I agree with you on getting a reciever to stretch the field, but Meachem and Hill are the only two Im interested in for the 1st (if and only if Griffin is gone), but I DON'T want Ginn. He may do good on special teams, but I don't believe in drafting returns in the 1st.

His senior year, he started getting alot of attention from defensive coordinators , and he battled some injuries, and WSU's #2 Michael Bumpus saw more passes go his way.

Also, I disagree about Ginn, just because in our position without a ton of needs, a lights out special teamer could really take our team to the next level (think Devin Hester). Someone needs to return punts, Eric Parker only gives us a fair catch guy, and only if the sun isn't out.

Jhasley10
03-07-2007, 11:05 AM
if san diego can sign or get a safety somehow worth a damn this offseason i think san diego should still try to trade up for wr ....i mean offensive and defensive line depth helps...but come on...san diego only has 2 true needs

sdpads24
03-07-2007, 03:33 PM
if san diego can sign or get a safety somehow worth a damn this offseason i think san diego should still try to trade up for wr ....i mean offensive and defensive line depth helps...but come on...san diego only has 2 true needs

When you say trade up, who who you want to trade up for? One of the top 3 or 4 WR are probably going to fall to us and I can't see AJ wasting picks to move up several spots. I think that trading up for a safety is a better option.

bergo23
03-07-2007, 04:57 PM
We'd have to move up alot to get Nelson, he ran a 4.35 at his ProDay, MUCH, MUCH better than his time at the combine. Both he and Landry are flat studs. Griffin and Merriweather are good also, but Dallas and New England will gobble them up too if we don't move up. Time to start focusing on Jason Hill as our best bet at #30.........dream would be Bowe, but its doubtful he will fall. With New England getting Welker, they may pass on Bowe......but I doubt Philly would.

I think Jason Hill is my new favorite at #30 for us.

LTCharger21
03-07-2007, 05:26 PM
We'd have to move up alot to get Nelson, he ran a 4.35 at his ProDay, MUCH, MUCH better than his time at the combine. Both he and Landry are flat studs. Griffin and Merriweather are good also, but Dallas and New England will gobble them up too if we don't move up. Time to start focusing on Jason Hill as our best bet at #30.........dream would be Bowe, but its doubtful he will fall. With New England getting Welker, they may pass on Bowe......but I doubt Philly would.

I think Jason Hill is my new favorite at #30 for us.

You can't really go by pro day 40 times, they are almost always a lot better than the combine times because they are on a track, which is faster than turf. But I have to agree with taking Hill at 30, unless someone like Griffin, Meachem, or Bowe were to fall to us.

Edit: I take that back about Nelson, his 40 was actually done on grass at the Pro Day, so that was a huge improvement.

Vikes99ej
03-09-2007, 09:44 PM
You guys have some sweet new uniforms!!

The Dynasty
03-09-2007, 11:26 PM
Aww ej you beat me to it i just saw them. Its like the New and Old Combined.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/LTJersey.jpg

bantx
03-11-2007, 03:17 AM
Thats pretty sick

JK17
03-15-2007, 12:08 AM
When you say trade up, who who you want to trade up for? One of the top 3 or 4 WR are probably going to fall to us and I can't see AJ wasting picks to move up several spots. I think that trading up for a safety is a better option.

I would like to see your second suggestion, trading up for the safety. I know AJ values his picks, and I trust everything he does, with everything he has done for the organization so far, but staying at #30 doesn't make sense to me. At this point we are looking at the bulkier recievers, which we already have. If we are looking WR, I would like Hill, and although a lot of people are big on him here, he is a reach at 30, and could be available mid second round. Perhaps some scenario where we could get a pick around 15-20 in the 1st , and mid 2nd round to snag Nelson/Griffen and Hill in the second? I'd like to see that, assuming we don't sacrifice too much for it.

bergo23
03-15-2007, 10:04 AM
Is a dream, Griffin and Jason Hill would be PERFECT....but I still think New England will take Griffin......leaving us with a tough decision to make at #30. I think a big question facing AJ in that scenario is whether to roll the dice on Merriweather.

I would like to see a speedy LB'er chosen for the inside who can cover, to make up for some of Donnie's deficit, maybe Shaw or Quincy Black.....for one of our 3rd round picks.....but McBean looks to be a solid DLineman, and if Igor ever moves in to replace Big Jamal, then we will need another 3-4 DE.

neko4
03-18-2007, 03:52 AM
Hey Charger fans new "fantasy offseason-type" game starting up
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4174

bantx
03-18-2007, 05:13 AM
Hey Charger fans new "fantasy offseason-type" game starting up
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4174

....spam this is Fantasy section....

bergo23
04-04-2007, 04:51 PM
Anybody notice that the #19, and #30 is almost enough on the value chart to get up to #6 where the Redskins now have no deal with Briggs. That is the perfect slot to get Landry, as he could very well go to Minny at #7........that would be a coup man!!!!! Trade Turner gets the Titans #19 and our #30 and get on the phone with Dan Snyder!!! That would be a dream come true!!!! We could be left with #62 to take a receiver, and with this draft's depth, we'd get a good one....maybe not one who would push Parker in year 1, but year 2 or 3.....a guy like Andrea Allison.

SuperKevin
04-08-2007, 04:51 PM
I'm a long time Buffalo Bills fan who now lives in the San Diego area with the Marine Corps and I have to say the Chargers are starting to wear on me. I recently got season tickets for a wedding gift and look forward to going to the games.

bantx
04-08-2007, 10:49 PM
you get to see the LT show!

CC.SD
04-10-2007, 10:35 PM
I'm a long time Buffalo Bills fan who now lives in the San Diego area with the Marine Corps and I have to say the Chargers are starting to wear on me. I recently got season tickets for a wedding gift and look forward to going to the games.

Something wearing on you is a bad thing though. Growing on you?

SuperKevin
04-11-2007, 12:11 AM
Something wearing on you is a bad thing though. Growing on you?

Well for now it's kind of a bad thing because I still want to remain loyal to the Bills but pretty soon I think it'll be hard and I'll learn to accept that I actually like the Chargers more

SuperKevin
06-22-2007, 02:27 AM
I'm seriously worried about the overall lack of speed on offense. I'm not sure if I'm sold on Craig Davis being our only speed guy at WR.

bantx
06-22-2007, 02:47 AM
eh we did fine last year with not too many fast guys....with craig it can only get better

JK17
06-22-2007, 10:15 AM
I'm seriously worried about the overall lack of speed on offense. I'm not sure if I'm sold on Craig Davis being our only speed guy at WR.

I'm not too concerned with the speed being a huge problem. Like Bantx said, we did fine without a lot of it last year, not to mention although he is a big guy with his frame, VJax still runs a 4.4 range 40 if I'm correct, if i recall correctly. Plus with the addition of Craig Davis, although still a rookie I doubt he'll have much of an impact at all, but he does bring more speed to the offense anyway.

It's definitely one of our biggest weaknesses in the WR core, but our TEs and RBs are pretty fast, so I wouldn't say the whole offense is necesarily too slow.

CC.SD
06-24-2007, 02:16 PM
I'm not too concerned with the speed being a huge problem. Like Bantx said, we did fine without a lot of it last year, not to mention although he is a big guy with his frame, VJax still runs a 4.4 range 40 if I'm correct, if i recall correctly. Plus with the addition of Craig Davis, although still a rookie I doubt he'll have much of an impact at all, but he does bring more speed to the offense anyway.

It's definitely one of our biggest weaknesses in the WR core, but our TEs and RBs are pretty fast, so I wouldn't say the whole offense is necesarily too slow.

Vincent Jackson isn't slow at all. If he were 5 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter, people would call him a speed guy.

He and Craig Davis will light it up for a long time.

In an absolute nightmare scenario where all of our fast guys on offense go down, I wouldn't be steadfastly opposed to letting Cromartie run some 9s. He has jets.

bantx
07-02-2007, 05:15 AM
im expecting big things from vincent jackson this year with his size he should be a huge threat in the red zone him n gates is killer duo in the red zone

JK17
07-06-2007, 11:21 PM
So this team forum is very slow, and in the offseason theres not much else going on....

Which game do you guys look forward to the most this year...After all the divisional rivals, I gotta say Its not gonna get any better then revenge in New England.

bantx
07-06-2007, 11:22 PM
baltimore def

sdpads24
07-07-2007, 02:07 PM
Im just ready to get this season underway. Bring them all on, it's gonna be fun to watch.

JK17
07-08-2007, 03:43 PM
baltimore def

Oh yeah, especially now...

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 03:54 PM
im expecting big things from vincent jackson this year with his size he should be a huge threat in the red zone him n gates is killer duo in the red zone

I'm afraid of both now though because rivers does not throw the ball to gates like brees did. I fear that gates will gravitate down to earth and VJ will see too many balls come his way. Don't get me wrong i love VJ, just he has not proved he is a possession reciever who can catch a high percentage of balls. In that same respect hes a great downfield reciever, but in the same light it sorta diminishes his value as a true number one because he hasn't shown he can do it all. Much like a peerless price.

JK17
07-08-2007, 04:06 PM
I'm afraid of both now though because rivers does not throw the ball to gates like brees did. I fear that gates will gravitate down to earth and VJ will see too many balls come his way. Don't get me wrong i love VJ, just he has not proved he is a possession reciever who can catch a high percentage of balls. In that same respect hes a great downfield reciever, but in the same light it sorta diminishes his value as a true number one because he hasn't shown he can do it all. Much like a peerless price.

Rivers worked the ball to Gates much better towards the end of the year though, and Gates wasn't a slouch last season either. I know your not knocking VJ but not many receivers show so much so early on anyway, and considering Rivers does a good job spreading the ball around, I don't think you'll see VJ being overloaded with too many passes. Part of the reason Gates didn't see as much action was because Rivers spreads the ball well.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 04:12 PM
Rivers worked the ball to Gates much better towards the end of the year though, and Gates wasn't a slouch last season either. I know your not knocking VJ but not many receivers show so much so early on anyway, and considering Rivers does a good job spreading the ball around, I don't think you'll see VJ being overloaded with too many passes. Part of the reason Gates didn't see as much action was because Rivers spreads the ball well.

thats very true but it also proves my point. Rivers spreads the ball around to who.. eric "the muffer" parker .. unproven VJ and scrubs off hte practice squad when he should be throwing it to the best reciever in the league gates. When gates had that huge year with brees it was because he was so diffifuclt to guard and brees gave him the ball as much as possible. Rivers hasn't got that into his head yet that he doesnt have to spread the ball around and he can throw it to gates alot more.

Take this into consideration, when brees was throwing, Champ bailey moved off of his corner position to man up with gates. Champ bailey. My good god. Now gates is practically covered by rivers with his need to pass around to scrub players. foolish.

JK17
07-08-2007, 04:16 PM
thats very true but it also proves my point. Rivers spreads the ball around to who.. eric "the muffer" parker .. unproven VJ and scrubs off hte practice squad when he should be throwing it to the best reciever in the league gates. When gates had that huge year with brees it was because he was so diffifuclt to guard and brees gave him the ball as much as possible. Rivers hasn't got that into his head yet that he doesnt have to spread the ball around and he can throw it to gates alot more.

Take this into consideration, when brees was throwing, Champ bailey moved off of his corner position to man up with gates. Champ bailey. My good god. Now gates is practically covered by rivers with his need to pass around to scrub players. foolish.

I think your being a little to harsh on the other receivers. If Carson Palmer only through to Chad Johnson would we ever find out that T.J. Housh was any good?

If you think the other guys are scrubs wouldn't you rather have Champ Bailey forced to stay matched up on them rather then taking Antonio Gates out of the game? I would'nt say Gates is covered by Rivers rather then Rivers opens up more options then Brees did. Not to mention in Gates' two great years he had with Brees (his last year was great too, but I'm speaking more of '04 and '05), we were 12-4 and 9-7. Granted the defense is different now, and the offense has improved a good deal, but with Rivers' style at QB we managed to work our way to a 14-2 record. Do you think Brees would have lead that comeback in Cincy if he only through to Gates? Or In Denver? or would Gates have been open all the way down field in the Seattle game if Rivers threw to him every single play?

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 04:24 PM
I think your being a little to harsh on the other receivers. If Carson Palmer only through to Chad Johnson would we ever find out that T.J. Housh was any good?

If you think the other guys are scrubs wouldn't you rather have Champ Bailey forced to stay matched up on them rather then taking Antonio Gates out of the game? I would'nt say Gates is covered by Rivers rather then Rivers opens up more options then Brees did. Not to mention in Gates' two great years he had with Brees (his last year was great too, but I'm speaking more of '04 and '05), we were 12-4 and 9-7. Granted the defense is different now, and the offense has improved a good deal, but with Rivers' style at QB we managed to work our way to a 14-2 record. Do you think Brees would have lead that comeback in Cincy if he only through to Gates? Or In Denver? or would Gates have been open all the way down field in the Seattle game if Rivers threw to him every single play?

Now watch out here. I had no intention of saying that rivers should throw to gates every single play cause thats just foolish. in that case what you have said is correct, pretty much all of it actually. But since it isn't, its all irrelevant. I'm talking about the 71 receptions gates had in 16 games playing with rivers. For those of you keeping track thats a little over 4 catches a game. Now, we're talking about the hardest player to defend in the league not your averagge number one option.

Gates is without a doubt hte top recieving option on the team (LT is in the backfield he simply doesnt count although i know hes god) and you cant be throwing to guys like VJ and EP just as much as gates.

JK17
07-08-2007, 04:35 PM
Now watch out here. I had no intention of saying that rivers should throw to gates every single play cause thats just foolish. in that case what you have said is correct, pretty much all of it actually. But since it isn't, its all irrelevant. I'm talking about the 71 receptions gates had in 16 games playing with rivers. For those of you keeping track thats a little over 4 catches a game. Now, we're talking about the hardest player to defend in the league not your averagge number one option.

Gates is without a doubt hte top recieving option on the team (LT is in the backfield he simply doesnt count although i know hes god) and you cant be throwing to guys like VJ and EP just as much as gates.

Saying Gates is the hardest player to defend in the leauge is a stretch, though obviously he's the hardest player to defend we have, and obviously he's up there with the best in the league.

Now 71 catches can be chalked up to a bunch of things, the most obvious being Rivers' inexperience early on. Gates had 7 games with 5+ catches, which is all you can really ask out of a TE. He's not going to keep getting 80+ catches a year but if you notice, his YPC jumped up to 13.0 this year, mainly because he was able to do more without the defense knowing it was coming to him everytime we had the ball. He was still top 25 in the league in receptions, so its not like he isn't getting the ball. He still is, and his catches are now more impactful.

Plus, he doesn't throw to VJ and EP as much as Gates, but when he does, its usually a good time for it, and it usually helps Gates in the long run get more open on long plays, or even sets the other ones up for more plays. Vincent Jackson's catch in Seattle could be attributed to them not knowing the ball was going to him, whereas with Brees they knew it would go to Gates in presure situations. That's not to say he doesn't work it to Gates in those situations though, because he does that also.

Our disagreement stems from what we think a QB should be doing. I like the idea of him spreading the ball and distributing whereas you like the idea of him looking to get the ball to the best player every play. If it could always work out that way I'd agree with you, but when it gets to the point Bailey is covering Gates its overkill, because now they have us matched up to the point where everyone knows where the ball is going.

Look at what Brady, Palmer, Manning do. They all work the ball around to the other receivers so that each one of them can be open at any given time. We may not have comparable WRs to Manning and Palmer, but we did to Brady before this offseason. I'd rather have what those guys bring then what Brees' brought.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 04:53 PM
Saying Gates is the hardest player to defend in the leauge is a stretch, though obviously he's the hardest player to defend we have, and obviously he's up there with the best in the league.

Now 71 catches can be chalked up to a bunch of things, the most obvious being Rivers' inexperience early on. Gates had 7 games with 5+ catches, which is all you can really ask out of a TE. He's not going to keep getting 80+ catches a year but if you notice, his YPC jumped up to 13.0 this year, mainly because he was able to do more without the defense knowing it was coming to him everytime we had the ball. He was still top 25 in the league in receptions, so its not like he isn't getting the ball. He still is, and his catches are now more impactful.

Plus, he doesn't throw to VJ and EP as much as Gates, but when he does, its usually a good time for it, and it usually helps Gates in the long run get more open on long plays, or even sets the other ones up for more plays. Vincent Jackson's catch in Seattle could be attributed to them not knowing the ball was going to him, whereas with Brees they knew it would go to Gates in presure situations. That's not to say he doesn't work it to Gates in those situations though, because he does that also.

Our disagreement stems from what we think a QB should be doing. I like the idea of him spreading the ball and distributing whereas you like the idea of him looking to get the ball to the best player every play. If it could always work out that way I'd agree with you, but when it gets to the point Bailey is covering Gates its overkill, because now they have us matched up to the point where everyone knows where the ball is going.

Look at what Brady, Palmer, Manning do. They all work the ball around to the other receivers so that each one of them can be open at any given time. We may not have comparable WRs to Manning and Palmer, but we did to Brady before this offseason. I'd rather have what those guys bring then what Brees' brought.


now i've bolded what i think is wrong and ill go through it step by step.

First gates is the hardest player to defend in the league because hes too fast for a LB and too big for a CB. Those attributes are what makes Calvin Johnson such an intruiging prospect because he is those things and plays WR.

Secondly just because he was top 25 in the league doesnt mean he got his fill. I will say this one time, Antonio Gates, the best TE in the league and one of the most difficult covers in the league, did not recieve 1,000 yards and thats pathetic. last year he didnt play the first game because of a contract dispute yet he still put up 89 rec 1101 yards 10 tds and 62 first downs. This year he had 71 rec 924 yards 9 tds and 49 first downs.. the numbers speak for themselves.

This next point is a little nitpicky but i feel i should say it anyway, i dont think that gates should be the target every play. Thats just foolish. I think he should be a bigger part of the offense, like a number one option should be.

Lastly you name 3 quarterback that are famous for spreading the ball around, right? wrong. I know what you meant to say but just using big name successful quarterbacks as your examples to further your argument wont fly here. Marvin harrison has a lot of catches under his belt right? alot. maybe the most ever in one season. Hes like the ichiro of NFL he just gets a lot of catches. Now a days peyton has reggie wayne and he throws to both alot, but because they're both very very good. in my opinion its like too antonio gates and everyone else is just there to capitalize. The year he broke the TD record he spread the ball around, 3 wr with 1,000 yards. pretty much because they threw the ball alot and with alot of success not because he was being nice and throwing everyone the ball like rivers.
As for palmer he throws to CJ alot theres no doubt about that. there situation is alot like indy's so i dont feel like typing it alll out.
Now palmer and peyton were probably just extras i bet you really just thought of brady and threw in the other names too. Brady passes the ball around because he doesnt have a good number one. he just doenst. he has no gates. Hes great because he finds ways around that. He doesnt pass to other players because he is spreading it around, he does because he doesnt have a recieving option good enoug to get open on a consistant basis.

JK17
07-08-2007, 05:02 PM
now i've bolded what i think is wrong and ill go through it step by step.

First gates is the hardest player to defend in the league because hes too fast for a LB and too big for a CB. Those attributes are what makes Calvin Johnson such an intruiging prospect because he is those things and plays WR.

Secondly just because he was top 25 in the league doesnt mean he got his fill. I will say this one time, Antonio Gates, the best TE in the league and one of the most difficult covers in the league, did not recieve 1,000 yards and thats pathetic. last year he didnt play the first game because of a contract dispute yet he still put up 89 rec 1101 yards 10 tds and 62 first downs. This year he had 71 rec 924 yards 9 tds and 49 first downs.. the numbers speak for themselves.

This next point is a little nitpicky but i feel i should say it anyway, i dont think that gates should be the target every play. Thats just foolish. I think he should be a bigger part of the offense, like a number one option should be.

Lastly you name 3 quarterback that are famous for spreading the ball around, right? wrong. I know what you meant to say but just using big name successful quarterbacks as your examples to further your argument wont fly here. Marvin harrison has a lot of catches under his belt right? alot. maybe the most ever in one season. Hes like the ichiro of NFL he just gets a lot of catches. Now a days peyton has reggie wayne and he throws to both alot, but because they're both very very good. in my opinion its like too antonio gates and everyone else is just there to capitalize. The year he broke the TD record he spread the ball around, 3 wr with 1,000 yards. pretty much because they threw the ball alot and with alot of success not because he was being nice and throwing everyone the ball like rivers.
As for palmer he throws to CJ alot theres no doubt about that. there situation is alot like indy's so i dont feel like typing it alll out.
Now palmer and peyton were probably just extras i bet you really just thought of brady and threw in the other names too. Brady passes the ball around because he doesnt have a good number one. he just doenst. he has no gates. Hes great because he finds ways around that. He doesnt pass to other players because he is spreading it around, he does because he doesnt have a recieving option good enoug to get open on a consistant basis.


Gates may be the hardest player to defend in the leauge, I'll say I may be wrong on that, but saying he's the absolute hardest to defend is just an extreme statement to make.

He may not have had the 89 catches, but where did those 89 catches get us too? 9-7? Who cares what he does personally. Rivers spreading the ball around means more all-around success for the Chargers offense, not just Antonio Gates' numbers.

You may want him to be a number one option, but he's a TE, not a WR. He's better then a great TE is, but he's not the same level as a Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt in terms of receiving. If you're throwing to him that often, it means your overusing him, like Brees did. It may mean good things for Gates' individually, but for the team, its not nearly as beneficial. I'd like to see him get 70-80 catches a year, and I would be thrilled with that.It means hes getting 4-6 balls a game on average, which is plenty.

Palmer and Peyton aren't just two other names. The point is they have their Marvin Harrisons, Reggie Waynes, CJ's, TJ Housh's, etc., but they don't forget about getting the ball to the Brandon Stokley's, Dallas Clarks, Ben Utechts, etc. Maybe not Palmer as much as Peyton, but when I say spread the ball around, I don't mean everyone gets the same amount of passes. I like the idea of Gates getting a lot of work but to expect him to be getting 90+ receptions a year is too much. I'm not calling for VJ and EP to be getting the same amount of work, but I have no problem with the distribution of the ball last year, it balanced well for us.

What you say about Brady not having the true #1 carries weight, and it makes the situation different, but what I am trying to show is that a system of spreading the ball works much better then a systme of cramming it all to one receiver.


EDIT: Also, I'm saying this assuming Gates gets more then 71 catches next year, beacuse I feel Rivers will get him the ball more as he becomes adjusted to the NFL. I'm not thrilled with 71 catches, I just oppose the idea of overdoing the passes to him. 80 would be ideal, IMO.

bantx
07-08-2007, 05:51 PM
gates is one fast and big target rivers will find him in the end zone no doubt, that was first year with rivers and gates had together they will become more comfortable with each other just like payton is to harrison, he'll get gates the ball. rivers will have a big year this year i know he will.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 08:08 PM
Gates may be the hardest player to defend in the leauge, I'll say I may be wrong on that, but saying he's the absolute hardest to defend is just an extreme statement to make.

He may not have had the 89 catches, but where did those 89 catches get us too? 9-7? Who cares what he does personally. Rivers spreading the ball around means more all-around success for the Chargers offense, not just Antonio Gates' numbers.

You may want him to be a number one option, but he's a TE, not a WR. He's better then a great TE is, but he's not the same level as a Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt in terms of receiving. If you're throwing to him that often, it means your overusing him, like Brees did. It may mean good things for Gates' individually, but for the team, its not nearly as beneficial. I'd like to see him get 70-80 catches a year, and I would be thrilled with that.It means hes getting 4-6 balls a game on average, which is plenty.

Palmer and Peyton aren't just two other names. The point is they have their Marvin Harrisons, Reggie Waynes, CJ's, TJ Housh's, etc., but they don't forget about getting the ball to the Brandon Stokley's, Dallas Clarks, Ben Utechts, etc. Maybe not Palmer as much as Peyton, but when I say spread the ball around, I don't mean everyone gets the same amount of passes. I like the idea of Gates getting a lot of work but to expect him to be getting 90+ receptions a year is too much. I'm not calling for VJ and EP to be getting the same amount of work, but I have no problem with the distribution of the ball last year, it balanced well for us.

What you say about Brady not having the true #1 carries weight, and it makes the situation different, but what I am trying to show is that a system of spreading the ball works much better then a systme of cramming it all to one receiver.


EDIT: Also, I'm saying this assuming Gates gets more then 71 catches next year, beacuse I feel Rivers will get him the ball more as he becomes adjusted to the NFL. I'm not thrilled with 71 catches, I just oppose the idea of overdoing the passes to him. 80 would be ideal, IMO.

Again, never did i ever say we should throw ever pass to antonio gates, thats just foolish. I dont know why you keep saying it but i know its something i have not said. My intention is to get gates more involved in the offense since 71 receptions is just simply inexcusable. On a team that lacks a real threat at the recieving core often time you'll see one player get alot of receptions. That player for us is antonio gates and in my opinion we dont use him enough. Hes obviously the best player and yet we give him the ball only 4times a game. The first down drop off from this year to last is inexcusable and is larely what im pointing at. A year ago we were among the best in the league in third down situations, this year to continue that we need to throw to a sure handed reciever named gates, not parker, not jackson.

To say that gates is over used is stupid, to say hes only a TE is also stupid.

In my opinion the only other player id like to see get the ball on a consistant basis is LT. However the problem remains that throwing to a RB and runniing constantly does not serve well for the defensive coverages. It allows them to crowd the line and cover both the pass and run. To avoid this we need to get the ball to gates early and often, and let our other players feed off his greatness like stokely feeds off wayne and harrison, and like TJ did from CJ in cincy.

JK17
07-08-2007, 11:26 PM
Again, never did i ever say we should throw ever pass to antonio gates, thats just foolish. I dont know why you keep saying it but i know its something i have not said. My intention is to get gates more involved in the offense since 71 receptions is just simply inexcusable. On a team that lacks a real threat at the recieving core often time you'll see one player get alot of receptions. That player for us is antonio gates and in my opinion we dont use him enough. Hes obviously the best player and yet we give him the ball only 4times a game. The first down drop off from this year to last is inexcusable and is larely what im pointing at. A year ago we were among the best in the league in third down situations, this year to continue that we need to throw to a sure handed reciever named gates, not parker, not jackson.

To say that gates is over used is stupid, to say hes only a TE is also stupid.

In my opinion the only other player id like to see get the ball on a consistant basis is LT. However the problem remains that throwing to a RB and runniing constantly does not serve well for the defensive coverages. It allows them to crowd the line and cover both the pass and run. To avoid this we need to get the ball to gates early and often, and let our other players feed off his greatness like stokely feeds off wayne and harrison, and like TJ did from CJ in cincy.

I understand the point about needing more receptions from Gates, that was a mistake my me in misreading your initial comments. 71 I don't feel satisfied with, but 80-85 I'm fine with him getting.

My only concern is being afraid to throw to the receivers because we feel Gates is the only one who can get it done, when all of them have to for our offense to gel and work.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 11:36 PM
I understand the point about needing more receptions from Gates, that was a mistake my me in misreading your initial comments. 71 I don't feel satisfied with, but 80-85 I'm fine with him getting.

My only concern is being afraid to throw to the receivers because we feel Gates is the only one who can get it done, when all of them have to for our offense to gel and work.

so then i suppose that beckons the question who is a reliable option behind gates and LT, the answer will determine how successful we are as a team this year.

JK17
07-08-2007, 11:37 PM
so then i suppose that beckons the question who is a reliable option behind gates and LT, the answer will determine how successful we are as a team this year.

I suppose so. I believe VJ can be, but what I imagine is you don't believe so.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 11:42 PM
I suppose so. I believe VJ can be, but what I imagine is you don't believe so.

no i dont and i dont know how yo ucould believe such a thing, all VJ has proven is that he has no fear to spike the ball without being tackled, and catching shaky lame duck passes when hes wide open

JK17
07-08-2007, 11:45 PM
no i dont and i dont know how yo ucould believe such a thing, all VJ has proven is that he has no fear to spike the ball without being tackled, and catching shaky lame duck passes when hes wide open

Because considering the potential prospect he was, and considering last year was his second year, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on the kind of plays he showed us he could make.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 11:49 PM
Because considering the potential prospect he was, and considering last year was his second year, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on the kind of plays he showed us he could make.

but what plays are those? He cant run crisp routes, doesnt have elite speed, and doesnt catch very well. I can say this, he is an exceptional athlete and can go and get a jump ball, so he did bail out rivers a couple times when rivers just threw a jump ball in the endzone. I dont know if he can be a complete reciever though. What have you seen that makes you so confident

JK17
07-08-2007, 11:52 PM
but what plays are those? He cant run crisp routes, doesnt have elite speed, and doesnt catch very well. I can say this, he is an exceptional athlete and can go and get a jump ball, so he did bail out rivers a couple times when rivers just threw a jump ball in the endzone. I dont know if he can be a complete reciever though. What have you seen that makes you so confident

His play towards the end of the year, specifcially the Seattle game, the chemistry he's shown at times with Rivers, and his overall athletic abilities. As far as him being a complete receiver, I think it will come in time. Coming out of college he was a potential player, not a polished product. Two years isn't gonna polish all his potential he needs time to develop, and last year was his first year with real playing time.

Average OT LB
07-08-2007, 11:57 PM
His play towards the end of the year, specifcially the Seattle game, the chemistry he's shown at times with Rivers, and his overall athletic abilities. As far as him being a complete receiver, I think it will come in time. Coming out of college he was a potential player, not a polished product. Two years isn't gonna polish all his potential he needs time to develop, and last year was his first year with real playing time.

well we are a winning team with a new coach who has to show he can win now. We have a lot of pressure on us to preform and playoffs should just be the bottom step thise year. Do you think we have the time to sit around and wait for this kid to develop or are you saying hes where he is because of his potential and thats it. Right now i would say push him to a 3 spot or something and pick up a veteran to start ahead of parker.
Everyone knows parkers a hands guy who lacks the speed to beat anyone or the quickness to burn someone route running. We have no consistant threat other than LT and gates.

JK17
07-09-2007, 12:02 AM
well we are a winning team with a new coach who has to show he can win now. We have a lot of pressure on us to preform and playoffs should just be the bottom step thise year. Do you think we have the time to sit around and wait for this kid to develop or are you saying hes where he is because of his potential and thats it. Right now i would say push him to a 3 spot or something and pick up a veteran to start ahead of parker.
Everyone knows parkers a hands guy who lacks the speed to beat anyone or the quickness to burn someone route running. We have no consistant threat other than LT and gates.

Well who do you supposed we go after. Any proven veteran whose a number one was unavailble or would break the bank. We don't have much of a choice but to let him develop he's the closest guy we got to being there.

Average OT LB
07-09-2007, 12:07 AM
Well who do you supposed we go after. Any proven veteran whose a number one was unavailble or would break the bank. We don't have much of a choice but to let him develop he's the closest guy we got to being there.

Then i suppose its up to the defense. Since starting potential guys who probably suck, i bet youd wanna start weddle.. a rookie.. over hart..

JK17
07-09-2007, 12:11 AM
Then i suppose its up to the defense. Since starting potential guys who probably suck, i bet youd wanna start weddle.. a rookie.. over hart..

I'd like to see Hart start, I don't think I ever said anything about only wanting potential players. But on that same note how much more has Hart proven then Weddle?

No team has the perfect player at every position, or a proven player everywhere. We are lucky enough to have only one or two.

Why do you feel Weddle and VJ will suck, what reason have they given you to believe so?

Average OT LB
07-09-2007, 12:18 AM
I'd like to see Hart start, I don't think I ever said anything about only wanting potential players. But on that same note how much more has Hart proven then Weddle?

No team has the perfect player at every position, or a proven player everywhere. We are lucky enough to have only one or two.

Why do you feel Weddle and VJ will suck, what reason have they given you to believe so?

actually there are alot of teams that dont have to start rookies and unproven players... just think about it. Most of them are good so it shouldnt be too hard for you..

as for not starting weddle right away means only one thing.. i can recognize the difference between just coming into the NFL and hanging around a franchise for awhile. Hart knows the system, wont get burned by double moves and stuff like that cause hes been around the league alot longer. Its almost like hes been playing this whole time so the adjustment is miminal for him. As for weddle, not only does he have to get a deal and get into camp, he has to memorize playbooks, read film and adjust to receivers. Who knows if he can even match up with NFL recievers. He isnt exactly a talented guy who played at a big time school..

JK17
07-09-2007, 12:20 AM
actually there are alot of teams that dont have to start rookies and unproven players... just think about it. Most of them are good so it shouldnt be too hard for you..

as for not starting weddle right away means only one thing.. i can recognize the difference between just coming into the NFL and hanging around a franchise for awhile. Hart knows the system, wont get burned by double moves and stuff like that cause hes been around the league alot longer. Its almost like hes been playing this whole time so the adjustment is miminal for him. As for weddle, not only does he have to get a deal and get into camp, he has to memorize playbooks, read film and adjust to receivers. Who knows if he can even match up with NFL recievers. He isnt exactly a talented guy who played at a big time school

He was a four year starter at Utah?!

Anyway, all teams have weak links, no matter how good they are. Ours are WR and S. I know Hart is a better option to start I agreed with you on that. I remember last year though everyone who said Rivers wouldn't be able to do anything, he was to inexperienced, but that seemed to work out fine. Clearly not the same situation, but its not like its unprecdented for a guy to succeed early on, like VJ can in his third year, and Weddle can towards the end of the year.

Average OT LB
07-09-2007, 12:31 AM
He was a four year starter at Utah?!

Anyway, all teams have weak links, no matter how good they are. Ours are WR and S. I know Hart is a better option to start I agreed with you on that. I remember last year though everyone who said Rivers wouldn't be able to do anything, he was to inexperienced, but that seemed to work out fine. Clearly not the same situation, but its not like its unprecdented for a guy to succeed early on, like VJ can in his third year, and Weddle can towards the end of the year.

Benefits Rivers had
was in the league for 2 years prior, as well as a few off season traing camps
Amazing running game best RB and FB in the game
Strong offensive line with pro bowl caliber players across the line
Outstanding defense to get him back onto the field quickly. that helps him keep his rhythm
a winning team, so he doesnt have to press alot
the most winning head that was coaching at the time
learning behind brees who is also an outstanding quarterback
time to digest the playbook
ability to learn in practice the difference between NCAA and NFL
the best TE in football, thats usually a good crutch

theres probably a bit more but you get hte idea

For weddle hes got alot of things going to like..
steady playing time?
time to digest the playbook?
time to adjust to the speed and athletic ability of the NFL?
offseason training camp?
An outstanding coach??
other playrs to bail him out when he cant cover his man?

a little differnt..

JK17
07-09-2007, 12:37 AM
Benefits Rivers had
was in the league for 2 years prior, as well as a few off season traing camps
Amazing running game best RB and FB in the game
Strong offensive line with pro bowl caliber players across the line
Outstanding defense to get him back onto the field quickly. that helps him keep his rhythm
a winning team, so he doesnt have to press alot
the most winning head that was coaching at the time
learning behind brees who is also an outstanding quarterback
time to digest the playbook
ability to learn in practice the difference between NCAA and NFL
the best TE in football, thats usually a good crutch

theres probably a bit more but you get hte idea

For weddle hes got alot of things going to like..
steady playing time?
time to digest the playbook?
time to adjust to the speed and athletic ability of the NFL?
offseason training camp?
An outstanding coach??
other playrs to bail him out when he cant cover his man?

a little differnt..

Almost all of those advantages you listed for Rivers though going into the season can be applied for VJ going into the season this year, except subsitute the crutch of Gates with Rivers, and he doens't have the same coaching.

I'm not responding to Weddle because I in no way led you to think that I want him to start.

Average OT LB
07-09-2007, 12:42 AM
Almost all of those advantages you listed for Rivers though going into the season can be applied for VJ going into the season this year, except subsitute the crutch of Gates with Rivers, and he doens't have the same coaching.

I'm not responding to Weddle because I in no way led you to think that I want him to start.

look a little closer.. none of the positive htings for rivers can help weddle.. and as far as him starting yeah whatever the negatives still apply to some degree

JK17
07-09-2007, 12:48 AM
look a little closer.. none of the positive htings for rivers can help weddle.. and as far as him starting yeah whatever the negatives still apply to some degree

Stop putting words in my mouth, I said nothing about them applying to Weddle or anything about Weddle starting, whatsoever.

Average OT LB
07-09-2007, 12:53 AM
Stop putting words in my mouth, I said nothing about them applying to Weddle or anything about Weddle starting, whatsoever.

dont jump all over me my bad, i didnt see that you wrote VJ's name instead of weddles.. a simple misunderstanding..

for VJ yeah i suppose a few things can apply to him as well, but not exactly. He has to preform indivusually and whe nthe ball is thrown hes gotta catch it. he cant his oline to block his defender.. his coach to tell him what the defense is doing.. or ask LT or gates to catch the ball for him.. hes a wide out hes all on his own. As far for getting open its all on him, yeah hes got crutches i get that im not an idiot although youll probably still point that out

his positional simply doesnt allow for people to help him out. Rivers makes his throws yeah i see that one coming, but hes got other options.. VJs other option is to drop the ball or dont get open..

JK17
07-10-2007, 10:21 AM
dont jump all over me my bad, i didnt see that you wrote VJ's name instead of weddles.. a simple misunderstanding..

Fair enough, though what I was saying really had no relevance to Weddle, and don't know why he is in the conversation to begin with.

for VJ yeah i suppose a few things can apply to him as well, but not exactly. He has to preform indivusually and whe nthe ball is thrown hes gotta catch it. he cant his oline to block his defender.. his coach to tell him what the defense is doing.. or ask LT or gates to catch the ball for him.. hes a wide out hes all on his own. As far for getting open its all on him, yeah hes got crutches i get that im not an idiot although youll probably still point that out

Almost all can. He's show good potential going in to his third season now, he's had time to learn the play book, he has a line to keep Rivers up so he can get open, he has a running game that could bring 8 in the box, making it easier for him to get open, and he's been learning under Keenan McCardell the past two years. Plus, with Gates on the field, he'll never be the main focus of the defense. Not to mention the strong D, that will get him more reps, the time he's had to learn the pro game, and the overall winning team to pick him up if he falters here and there.

his positional simply doesnt allow for people to help him out. Rivers makes his throws yeah i see that one coming, but hes got other options.. VJs other option is to drop the ball or dont get open..

Rivers makes throws, Gates draws attention, LT draws attention, the O-Line gives him time to get open....all those are people helping him out.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 04:07 PM
Fair enough, though what I was saying really had no relevance to Weddle, and don't know why he is in the conversation to begin with.



Almost all can. He's show good potential going in to his third season now, he's had time to learn the play book, he has a line to keep Rivers up so he can get open, he has a running game that could bring 8 in the box, making it easier for him to get open, and he's been learning under Keenan McCardell the past two years. Plus, with Gates on the field, he'll never be the main focus of the defense. Not to mention the strong D, that will get him more reps, the time he's had to learn the pro game, and the overall winning team to pick him up if he falters here and there.



Rivers makes throws, Gates draws attention, LT draws attention, the O-Line gives him time to get open....all those are people helping him out.

yeah but what i mean is when it comes down to it, he has only 2 options, drop the pass or catch it. And before that even happens hes gotta get open. Now Gates doesnt draw attention that can force a defense to change because we dont use him enough. LT makes people put a soft 8 in the box, and what that means is that the safety isnt playing at theline but instead has moved up a few steps. Its kinda the reason why LT just killed teams because they really couldn't have a hard core stop the run defense like the KC cheifs had the game they beat us. Rivers cant make throws to him if hes not open, and the OLine isnt blocking for VJ to get open, its the NFL you cant sit back for 10 seconds and just wait. If the Oline is doing a good job what that means is its allowing rivers the room to step up to make the throw to an open wr, not to allow everyone to wait for VJ to get open.

These NFL cliches are slightly exaggerated in your case and dont play out to have such a dramatic effect like you have them doing. Yes, there is a reason for them they do exist, but its not like madden or something there is no real cause and effect scenario in the NFL to the effect of run run playaction bomb for a TD.

bantx
07-10-2007, 04:10 PM
how the crap did u already get a red bar

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 04:23 PM
how the crap did u already get a red bar

ive been a little too cavalier in my posts about other teams and what i think of their players... my bad

JK17
07-10-2007, 10:38 PM
yeah but what i mean is when it comes down to it, he has only 2 options, drop the pass or catch it. And before that even happens hes gotta get open. Now Gates doesnt draw attention that can force a defense to change because we dont use him enough. LT makes people put a soft 8 in the box, and what that means is that the safety isnt playing at theline but instead has moved up a few steps. Its kinda the reason why LT just killed teams because they really couldn't have a hard core stop the run defense like the KC cheifs had the game they beat us. Rivers cant make throws to him if hes not open, and the OLine isnt blocking for VJ to get open, its the NFL you cant sit back for 10 seconds and just wait. If the Oline is doing a good job what that means is its allowing rivers the room to step up to make the throw to an open wr, not to allow everyone to wait for VJ to get open.

These NFL cliches are slightly exaggerated in your case and dont play out to have such a dramatic effect like you have them doing. Yes, there is a reason for them they do exist, but its not like madden or something there is no real cause and effect scenario in the NFL to the effect of run run playaction bomb for a TD.


This conversation will go nowhere, so why don't we just end it now. It comes down to you not thinking VJ has what it takes, and me having confidence he'll develop like he should.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 10:43 PM
This conversation will go nowhere, so why don't we just end it now. It comes down to you not thinking VJ has what it takes, and me having confidence he'll develop like he should.

actuallly, i would rather it end like this. I would prefer it if the chargers stuck to their guns that got them to a 14 and 2 record and not overly rely on VJ. He is 6'5 and if you throw him alot of passes he'll put up numbers like any player would. What i would like to see is keep him where he should be, 2nd on the wr depth chart and 4th in the passing proggressions. If he has a breaking out year (3rd year wr) it should be for no more than 50 catches and 5+ tds. If hes getting 1,000 yards, 60 rec, or 10 tds, we're not a 14 win team.

THE END

JK17
07-10-2007, 10:48 PM
actuallly, i would rather it end like this. I would prefer it if the chargers stuck to their guns that got them to a 14 and 2 record and not overly rely on VJ. He is 6'5 and if you throw him alot of passes he'll put up numbers like any player would. What i would like to see is keep him where he should be, 2nd on the wr depth chart and 4th in the passing proggressions. If he has a breaking out year (3rd year wr) it should be for no more than 50 catches and 5+ tds. If hes getting 1,000 yards, 60 rec, or 10 tds, we're not a 14 win team.

THE END

See thats the thing, you're getting so obsessed with these players numbers, you're failing to realize stats correlate very little to wins. I don't care what their numbers are, as long as the team wins. You say you want him 2nd wr on the depth chart, but you've failed to give a good option who you want ahead of him. I don't mind if he's the third guy in the progression...Look to Gates first, LT second, but don't be afraid to look to VJ third, EP fourth, Davis, 5th, you have to have faith in these guys if you want 14 wins again. I'm not saying to force it to VJ if he's not there, but if he's developing as i personally expect, why be afraid to throw to him?

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 10:53 PM
See thats the thing, you're getting so obsessed with these players numbers, you're failing to realize stats correlate very little to wins. I don't care what their numbers are, as long as the team wins. You say you want him 2nd wr on the depth chart, but you've failed to give a good option who you want ahead of him. I don't mind if he's the third guy in the progression...Look to Gates first, LT second, but don't be afraid to look to VJ third, EP fourth, Davis, 5th, you have to have faith in these guys if you want 14 wins again. I'm not saying to force it to VJ if he's not there, but if he's developing as i personally expect, why be afraid to throw to him?

sigh, i listed the numbers only to show what he should be getting if the team expects to win.. as far as the depth chart goes, im pretty sure hes the 2nd wideout behind EP. hes not bad, in fact sometimes hes very good, just hes not consistantly reliable like the other guys.

JK17
07-10-2007, 10:56 PM
sigh, i listed the numbers only to show what he should be getting if the team expects to win.. as far as the depth chart goes, im pretty sure hes the 2nd wideout behind EP. hes not bad, in fact sometimes hes very good, just hes not consistantly reliable like the other guys.

You've said on other posts though, that you don't think the other guys are reliable (unless you're referring to LT and Gates)......

He's not the 2nd wideout either, he's been given the #1 role this season. Also, I just don't understand why you assume that there are specific numbers that must be achieved for players to win...it doesn't make sense to me at least.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:00 PM
You've said on other posts though, that you don't think the other guys are reliable (unless you're referring to LT and Gates)......

He's not the 2nd wideout either, he's been given the #1 role this season. Also, I just don't understand why you assume that there are specific numbers that must be achieved for players to win...it doesn't make sense to me at least.

The group figures to be led by six-year veteran Eric Parker, who caught 105 passes for 1,384 yards over the past two seasons, the most among Chargers wide receivers. His tireless work ethic and ability to lead by example has endeared him to teammates, and Parkers reliability has allowed him to gain the utmost confidence of his quarterback.

"I'm excited about them, Rivers said. They're both big, strong, fast guys. To me, they're real streaky. When they get hot, they're really hot.

Being big, fast, running and jumping is all great, Philip Rivers said. But if you're not dependable, it doesn't matter. Eric is a guy I know I can count on. Hes always going to be in the right place.

this is all from chargers.com its what ive gone by.

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:05 PM
The group figures to be led by six-year veteran Eric Parker, who caught 105 passes for 1,384 yards over the past two seasons, the most among Chargers wide receivers. His tireless work ethic and ability to lead by example has endeared him to teammates, and Parkers reliability has allowed him to gain the utmost confidence of his quarterback.

"I'm excited about them, Rivers said. They're both big, strong, fast guys. To me, they're real streaky. When they get hot, they're really hot.

Being big, fast, running and jumping is all great, Philip Rivers said. But if you're not dependable, it doesn't matter. Eric is a guy I know I can count on. Hes always going to be in the right place.

this is all from chargers.com its what ive gone by.

IDK when the dates on that are, and I don't have the time to be honest, to find links right now, but from what I've seen and heard VJ expects to be the number one wide receiver.....

So should I interpret that though to mean you have faith in Parker if you'd rather see him then VJ, because your prior posts don't seem to big on him?....I mean if you're so much more confident with him being the #1 you must like him better, is that a correct assumption or no? And there's nothing wrong with Parker, I have faith in him...as a #2/#3 guy. But if we're looking for the all-around #1 guy you've said you wanted, its VJ. You knocked VJ for not being all-around, but is EP so much better? He's slow and undersized, which is okay for what he does, but not if you want the true #1 you've been calling for.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:08 PM
IDK when the dates on that are, and I don't have the time to be honest, to find links right now, but from what I've seen and heard VJ expects to be the number one wide receiver.....

So should I interpret that though to mean you have faith in Parker if you'd rather see him then VJ, because your prior posts don't seem to big on him?....I mean if you're so much more confident with him being the #1 you must like him better, is that a correct assumption or no? And there's nothing wrong with Parker, I have faith in him...as a #2/#3 guy. But if we're looking for the all-around #1 guy you've said you wanted, its VJ. You knocked VJ for not being all-around, but is EP so much better? He's slow and undersized, which is okay for what he does, but not if you want the true #1 you've been calling for.

that link is 2 days old

EP is more of an all around number 1 and like the quote says hes dependable. The quote im talking about eludes to VJ's abilities, and then refers to EP's reliability. Thats what a number 1 is all about. VJ is not that yet so he is not yet a number 1. By the end of the year, if he grows sure. Not now. EP isnt fantastic (not physically gifted) so i dont love him, but hes better than VJ and hsould be the number one.

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:10 PM
that link is 2 days old

EP is more of an all around number 1 and like the quote says hes dependable. The quote im talking about eludes to VJ's abilities, and then refers to EP's reliability. Thats what a number 1 is all about. VJ is not that yet so he is not yet a number 1. By the end of the year, if he grows sure. Not now. EP isnt fantastic (not physically gifted) so i dont love him, but hes better than VJ and hsould be the number one.

So the guy you just referred to a couple pages back as Eric "the muffer" Parker you believe should be the number one? I trust you on the link, but I don't believe for a second EP is more of a #1 then VJ is. VJ can potentialy have it all, whereas you know what you're getting from EP...a guy who can make the catch on third and 5-10 yards, but will never be the explosive threat, never be the guy you go to when you need a huge play. He'll be the consistent guy you can count on to get you the small, improtant first downs....but not a number one threat.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:15 PM
So the guy you just referred to a couple pages back as Eric "the muffer" Parker you believe should be the number one? I trust you on the link, but I don't believe for a second EP is more of a #1 then VJ is. VJ can potentialy have it all, whereas you know what you're getting from EP...a guy who can make the catch on third and 5-10 yards, but will never be the explosive threat, never be the guy you go to when you need a huge play. He'll be the consistent guy you can count on to get you the small, improtant first downs....but not a number one threat.


um what you just said EP was is exactly what we want at the number one spot. What you said VJ is, is exactly what we need in a two spot. You dont make devery henderson Bryant Johnson or Bernard berrian your number one guy, they arent whole recievers yet. They are good to have on the team, but not number ones. TWo is good.

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:18 PM
um what you just said EP was is exactly what we want at the number one spot. What you said VJ is, is exactly what we need in a two spot. You dont make devery henderson Bryant Johnson or Bernard berrian your number one guy, they arent whole recievers yet. They are good to have on the team, but not number ones. TWo is good.

EP is a whole receiver? Since when? You were just so hard on him in recent posts for choking in the playoffs, or not being good enough to get a fair amount of catches, and now you want him to be the number one guy?!

I'm not saying VJ has already shown he is a number one guy, I'm saying he's our best shot at having one. It's too late now to go get a real #1, it's been too late for a while. You have to accept we won't be perfect at every position. VJ gives us the best shot to be a perfect 1-2-3 WR core with VJ/EP/Davis....but having EP as your #1 is a handicap. I like EP because he's there on the third downs, and he works hard, all the time, to make sure he's on top of his game. But he can only do so much. He's not a number one and you know that, you've all but said so in your other posts.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:27 PM
EP is a whole receiver? Since when? You were just so hard on him in recent posts for choking in the playoffs, or not being good enough to get a fair amount of catches, and now you want him to be the number one guy?!

I'm not saying VJ has already shown he is a number one guy, I'm saying he's our best shot at having one. It's too late now to go get a real #1, it's been too late for a while. You have to accept we won't be perfect at every position. VJ gives us the best shot to be a perfect 1-2-3 WR core with VJ/EP/Davis....but having EP as your #1 is a handicap. I like EP because he's there on the third downs, and he works hard, all the time, to make sure he's on top of his game. But he can only do so much. He's not a number one and you know that, you've all but said so in your other posts.

okay before i accuse you ill admit i'm guilty for doing it too. read my posts and respond to them for what they say dont twist my words.

Let me recap: EP is the number one - I dont like him at number one hes not physically gifted enough - VJ isnt a number either but because EP is more dependable hes gotta be number one - Becasue EP is number one doesnt mean i want him getting alot of catches like ive said - LT and Gates should ge the majority of catches - VJ should stick to being the deep threat - EP should get the important catches - In the future VJ should be number one cause he has the right body for it - the future isnt now, hes not ready - 20 catches for him in 7 starts is number 2 stuff.

and let me add - i like craig davis, not at first but hes grown on me. hopefully he can be what we want him to be and get the amount of catches as both EP and VJ.

SuperKevin
07-10-2007, 11:34 PM
No offense but when you have to depend on Eric Parker to be your #1 WR you have serious question marks at the position. Honestly Parker is best suited for a slot role where he can use his after the catch skills and elusiveness to take advantage of linebackers in coverage. The starters should be Jackson and Craig Davis to spread the field.

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:34 PM
okay before i accuse you ill admit i'm guilty for doing it too. read my posts and respond to them for what they say dont twist my words.

I don't think I've twisted to much, but fair enough, I will only respond to exactly what you said.

Let me recap: EP is the number one - I dont like him at number one hes not physically gifted enough - VJ isnt a number either but because EP is more dependable hes gotta be number one - Becasue EP is number one doesnt mean i want him getting alot of catches like ive said - LT and Gates should ge the majority of catches - VJ should stick to being the deep threat - EP should get the important catches - In the future VJ should be number one cause he has the right body for it - the future isnt now, hes not ready - 20 catches for him in 7 starts is number 2 stuff.

No, thats second year WR stuff, as he gets ready to take on the role of being a number one. He's a potential guy, that's what he was drafted as, don't expect a huge impact in his first two years.

You agree that EP is not a prototypcal number one. That's because he isn't he's made to be a #2/#3 guy. The jobs you gave him, being the important catch, first down guy, are stuff you can expect out of a #2 WR/#3 WR. The deep play, and all-around guy, which is what VJ has given us no reason to believe he won't be, his what you want from a number one. If what your saying is EP is the number one because he is the guy Rivers trusts, then I can't disagree with that. EP has shown he is Rivers' comfort guy, look at the games EP was out, and see Rivers' production decline. But when I say number one, I mean the guy with the total package, and thats what VJ is showing us. The future is now at WR, they have to be ready now, but we won't know until the season starts.

and let me add - i like craig davis, not at first but hes grown on me. hopefully he can be what we want him to be and get the amount of catches as both EP and VJ.

I agree with you on Craig Davis, I hated the pick at first but he's grown on em too. Where I see him is the #2 guy eventually, with VJ #1, and EP in the slot, where he can be mismatched on a CB and get us the big key first downs. But again, our disagreemnt comes over VJ and where he is at, and that won't be proven til this year, so there is no point in further debating this.


If what you want from your #1 is the guy your QB can trust, but doesn't have the tools of a #1, then I agree with you completely its EP. But What I see as the #1 is the guy who can have it all, and thats VJ. EP may be the go to guy, but VJ is still the #1 because of what he brings to the table.

bantx
07-10-2007, 11:35 PM
No offense but when you have to depend on Eric Parker to be your #1 WR you have serious question marks at the position. Honestly Parker is best suited for a slot role where he can use his after the catch skills and elusiveness to take advantage of linebackers in coverage. The starters should be Jackson and Craig Davis to spread the field.

agreed, have gates play a slot on some plays and we will be set

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:39 PM
It sure is nice to see some active Chargers dicussion though...not enough of it on the boards...

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:42 PM
I don't think I've twisted to much, but fair enough, I will only respond to exactly what you said.



No, thats second year WR stuff, as he gets ready to take on the role of being a number one. He's a potential guy, that's what he was drafted as, don't expect a huge impact in his first two years.

You agree that EP is not a prototypcal number one. That's because he isn't he's made to be a #2/#3 guy. The jobs you gave him, being the important catch, first down guy, are stuff you can expect out of a #2 WR/#3 WR. The deep play, and all-around guy, which is what VJ has given us no reason to believe he won't be, his what you want from a number one. If what your saying is EP is the number one because he is the guy Rivers trusts, then I can't disagree with that. EP has shown he is Rivers' comfort guy, look at the games EP was out, and see Rivers' production decline. But when I say number one, I mean the guy with the total package, and thats what VJ is showing us. The future is now at WR, they have to be ready now, but we won't know until the season starts.



I agree with you on Craig Davis, I hated the pick at first but he's grown on em too. Where I see him is the #2 guy eventually, with VJ #1, and EP in the slot, where he can be mismatched on a CB and get us the big key first downs. But again, our disagreemnt comes over VJ and where he is at, and that won't be proven til this year, so there is no point in further debating this.

If what you want from your #1 is the guy your QB can trust, but doesn't have the tools of a #1, then I agree with you completely its EP. But What I see as the #1 is the guy who can have it all, and thats VJ. EP may be the go to guy, but VJ is still the #1 because of what he brings to the table.


i completely agree wit hyou there. My opinion is that even if EP is the number two, rivers would throw to him more often anyways because hes more comfertable, why fight it. If Vj can show hes not gonna spike footballs in the middle of a play, then yeah hes the number one. Not now.

bantx
07-10-2007, 11:43 PM
off season is slow so we wont get much, wait till the season starts hopefully more will come

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:44 PM
i completely agree wit hyou there. My opinion is that even if EP is the number two, rivers would throw to him more often anyways because hes more comfertable, why fight it. If Vj can show hes not gonna spike footballs in the middle of a play, then yeah hes the number one. Not now.

Agreed, i have no problem with Rivers being more comfortable in Parker, I've been an EP fan for a while. I just think the time for VJ is now, but thats not a statement on what he has done, rather a statement on what I think he will do this season, based on what I have personally seen.

bantx
07-10-2007, 11:45 PM
we just need to make moves so we can win a SB soon cause LT isnt getting younger

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:48 PM
Agreed, i have no problem with Rivers being more comfortable in Parker, I've been an EP fan for a while. I just think the time for VJ is now, but thats not a statement on what he has done, rather a statement on what I think he will do this season, based on what I have personally seen.

Okay so then i guess that finally puts it to an end, and the result was im a pessimist and you dont see eye to eye with me. Thats fine with me.

JK17
07-10-2007, 11:49 PM
we just need to make moves so we can win a SB soon cause LT isnt getting younger

Amen. I hate being real about it, but he's not getting younger, and thirty really is right around the corner for him. I'm shaky as to if he's 27 or 28, but that leaves him only a couple more years we can expect him to be dominant at the level he is, especially considering the workload he's had...Even though there is all the talk about how great AJ Smith has done getting players signed through 2009, that really may be the end of our window...

SuperKevin
07-10-2007, 11:51 PM
If Vj can show hes not gonna spike footballs in the middle of a play, then yeah hes the number one. Not now.

You have to cut him some slack on that. After years of being considered down when your knee hits the ground, it probably takes some getting used to being downed by contact.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:53 PM
You have to cut him some slack on that. After years of being considered down when your knee hits the ground, it probably takes some getting used to being downed by contact.

haha i didnt mean to say it all that seriously but now that you mention it, it is his second year he should be fine. VJ just needs to get better and more reliable, then im okay with him being a number one.

sdpads24
07-10-2007, 11:57 PM
Amen. I hate being real about it, but he's not getting younger, and thirty really is right around the corner for him. I'm shaky as to if he's 27 or 28, but that leaves him only a couple more years we can expect him to be dominant at the level he is, especially considering the workload he's had...Even though there is all the talk about how great AJ Smith has done getting players signed through 2009, that really may be the end of our window...

As much as it would be nice to retain all of our incredible players, i agree with you and I can't see that happening. We are stacked and I find it funny how fans from other teams try to say they are even close to the team we are.

SuperKevin
07-10-2007, 11:59 PM
People here will crucify me for saying this but what about a starting lineup of Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd? They are probably the two best run blocking WRs they have and being an offense that revolves aroudn the run it seems important to have them out there. Plus both are huge targets who create mismatches for smaller CBs. Then you let EP and Craig Davis rotate in the slot and use their speed to burn linebackers and safeties.

Average OT LB
07-10-2007, 11:59 PM
As much as it would be nice to retain all of our incredible players, i agree with you and I can't see that happening. We are stacked and I find it funny how fans from other teams try to say they are even close to the team we are.

Did big ben win it all his second year? i dont see any reason why we shouldnt be victorious next year, Super Bowl or Bust

Average OT LB
07-11-2007, 12:01 AM
People here will crucify me for saying this but what about a starting lineup of Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd? They are probably the two best run blocking WRs they have and being an offense that revolves aroudn the run it seems important to have them out there. Plus both are huge targets who create mismatches for smaller CBs. Then you let EP and Craig Davis rotate in the slot and use their speed to burn linebackers and safeties.

thats not stupid at all, in fact the chargers do that often, or did last year. I dont expect floyd to start games considering we have EP, but the lineup you mentioned is one we used last year often times in the redzone.

bantx
07-11-2007, 12:01 AM
yeah its bad when gates isnt a good run blocker but we work thru it

SuperKevin
07-11-2007, 12:02 AM
thats not stupid at all, in fact the chargers do that often, or did last year. I dont expect floyd to start games considering we have EP, but the lineup you mentioned is one we used last year often times in the redzone.

It's a smart gameplan for the running game. What people need to realize is that this team is a running team first and the starting WRs will never rack up huge numbers here so it really should come down to who will help the current offense the most

sdpads24
07-11-2007, 12:06 AM
People here will crucify me for saying this but what about a starting lineup of Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd? They are probably the two best run blocking WRs they have and being an offense that revolves aroudn the run it seems important to have them out there. Plus both are huge targets who create mismatches for smaller CBs. Then you let EP and Craig Davis rotate in the slot and use their speed to burn linebackers and safeties.

That lineup is probably one that we would only use in the redzone because if I recall correctly we had a lineup similar to that in our second game against the raiders and the speed of their secondary just destroyed us.

JK17
07-11-2007, 10:28 AM
It's a smart gameplan for the running game. What people need to realize is that this team is a running team first and the starting WRs will never rack up huge numbers here so it really should come down to who will help the current offense the most

That's true, a lot of the reason that LT had such a great year last year was because of all the down the field blocking he got. I don't know if I'd like to see Floyd out there every play, but certainly in some running situations it wouldn't hurt to have extra blocking.

Hines
07-12-2007, 01:09 PM
you guys got oliver in the fourth

iloxygenil
07-12-2007, 01:20 PM
You guys think Oliver will even make your team? Obviously he will because well, he's a 4th round pick...but are you guys happy you picked him?

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 01:21 PM
you guys got oliver in the fourth

From what I've read its a steal. Hopefully he can come in and contrubute right away.

sdpads24
07-12-2007, 01:26 PM
You guys think Oliver will even make your team? Obviously he will because well, he's a 4th round pick...but are you guys happy you picked him?

Sure I don't have a problem with this pick at all. I don't know much about this guy, but if he can live up to his 1st or 2nd round draft pick potential and be a decent character guy it will be definitely worth a 4th round pick.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
07-12-2007, 01:28 PM
I think that is a great use of a fourth. I was supprised that someone didnt offer a higher 4th, or a 3rd for that matter.

I dont know if he will start, but I would bet he will contribute.

JK17
07-12-2007, 11:37 PM
You guys think Oliver will even make your team? Obviously he will because well, he's a 4th round pick...but are you guys happy you picked him?

Thrilled now. I don't see an immediate need for a corner so i was shocked we got him. I mean Jammer just proved he can do it, Florence is there this year in case Cromartie is not ready, though he's shown a lot already so he could very well be.

A fourth round pick next year though, was a depth pick for us anyway. Why not get depth here on Oliver, a guy who rumors say could go as high as first round next year (though I'm not so sure on that), who is better then any player we would've got in the fourth next year? The only thing that sucks is we don't have a third or fourth next year now...

Average OT LB
07-13-2007, 01:54 AM
Thrilled now. I don't see an immediate need for a corner so i was shocked we got him. I mean Jammer just proved he can do it, Florence is there this year in case Cromartie is not ready, though he's shown a lot already so he could very well be.

A fourth round pick next year though, was a depth pick for us anyway. Why not get depth here on Oliver, a guy who rumors say could go as high as first round next year (though I'm not so sure on that), who is better then any player we would've got in the fourth next year? The only thing that sucks is we don't have a third or fourth next year now...


Yeah wow no third and fourth that really sucks for us, but i dont mind because we dont need the picks anyway. I just wonder if this guy can contribute or even play.

JK17
07-13-2007, 11:23 PM
Yeah wow no third and fourth that really sucks for us, but i dont mind because we dont need the picks anyway. I just wonder if this guy can contribute or even play.

To be honest, I just know what everyone else says about him...the whole "shut down Calvin Johnson" and could've been a first rounder kind of talk...

What are the knocks on Oliver, other then the intelligence, I assume, since he was inelligible and all that...in other words, why would this be a bad pick...

Average OT LB
07-14-2007, 01:35 AM
To be honest, I just know what everyone else says about him...the whole "shut down Calvin Johnson" and could've been a first rounder kind of talk...

What are the knocks on Oliver, other then the intelligence, I assume, since he was inelligible and all that...in other words, why would this be a bad pick...


From this very site...

Paul Oliver
Height: 5-10 5/8 | Weight: 195 | 40-Time: 4.55

Official Bio

Strengths:
Adequate height and good bulk..Very good natural athlete...Has long arms...Able to flip his hips to turn and run with the best of them...Good playmaking ability and ball skills...Strong and pretty physical...A good tackler who will also support the run...Still has a lot of upside and seemed to be just starting to come into his own.

Weaknesses:
Just one year of starting experience...Timed speed is just average...Not a great leaper (33.5-inch vertical)...Average instincts...Can run hot and cold and is not as consistent as you'd prefer...Can he handle a man scheme or is he more of a zone coverage type?...Safety might be his best position...Intelligence may be a factor.

Notes:
Was rated as the #1 defensive back in the nation coming out of high school by Rivals100.com...Redshirted as a freshman and had to bide his time behind future pros DeMario Minter and Tim Jennings...Held #2 overall pick Calvin Johnson to just 2 catches for 13 yards in 2006...Did not work out nearly as well as expected but that can be at least partially attributed to a lack of proper prep time...Would have been the early favorite to be the #1 rated senior at his position for the 2008 NFL Draft...Could wind up being a steal and has the talent to start at the next level.

JK17
07-14-2007, 02:52 PM
From this very site...

Paul Oliver
Height: 5-10 5/8 | Weight: 195 | 40-Time: 4.55


Weaknesses:
Just one year of starting experience...Timed speed is just average...Not a great leaper (33.5-inch vertical)...Average instincts...Can run hot and cold and is not as consistent as you'd prefer...Can he handle a man scheme or is he more of a zone coverage type?...Safety might be his best position...Intelligence may be a factor.

Notes:
Was rated as the #1 defensive back in the nation coming out of high school by Rivals100.com...Redshirted as a freshman and had to bide his time behind future pros DeMario Minter and Tim Jennings...Held #2 overall pick Calvin Johnson to just 2 catches for 13 yards in 2006...Did not work out nearly as well as expected but that can be at least partially attributed to a lack of proper prep time...Would have been the early favorite to be the #1 rated senior at his position for the 2008 NFL Draft...Could wind up being a steal and has the talent to start at the next level.

The first two negative things I bolded our what concerns be most right now, the speed, and if that speed will limit him in coverage. Interesting note though that they say Safety might be his best position...I wonder if they're going to consider using him as a safety rather then Cornerback...

The next two though give a lot of confidence, at least that it was a good pick. #1 D-back going into college, and then being the early favortie to be #1 his senior year is more then we can really hope for out of a 4th ruonder next year.

Average OT LB
07-14-2007, 11:29 PM
The first two negative things I bolded our what concerns be most right now, the speed, and if that speed will limit him in coverage. Interesting note though that they say Safety might be his best position...I wonder if they're going to consider using him as a safety rather then Cornerback...

The next two though give a lot of confidence, at least that it was a good pick. #1 D-back going into college, and then being the early favortie to be #1 his senior year is more then we can really hope for out of a 4th ruonder next year.

Its worth it to take the risk, but where do you put him? dime back? wouldnt he be man up on some speedy wr.. or put him at the nickel safety but isnt that why we specifically drafted weddle? i dunno.. the speed thing is a big concern

He reminds me of jimmy williams who i htink went to atlanta

princefielder28
07-15-2007, 07:40 AM
Any Padres fan interested?????

JK17
07-15-2007, 09:16 AM
Its worth it to take the risk, but where do you put him? dime back? wouldnt he be man up on some speedy wr.. or put him at the nickel safety but isnt that why we specifically drafted weddle? i dunno.. the speed thing is a big concern

He reminds me of jimmy williams who i htink went to atlanta

The only saving grace I can think of on the speed aspect of his report, is like it says, lack of preparation time, but even so its a concern. Still worth the risk nonetheless.

Average OT LB
07-15-2007, 01:49 PM
The only saving grace I can think of on the speed aspect of his report, is like it says, lack of preparation time, but even so its a concern. Still worth the risk nonetheless.


so where does he play, hes more of a second corner then anything else and after that maybe a strong safety. Actually now that i think of it i think hes gonna be a backup saftey, that sounds about right.

JK17
07-15-2007, 09:44 PM
so where does he play, hes more of a second corner then anything else and after that maybe a strong safety. Actually now that i think of it i think hes gonna be a backup saftey, that sounds about right.

Then maybe thats what he ends up being, but if he's a solid backup, I don't know what more we could get out of a fourth rounder....no fourth rounder was gonan come in here and start....For all we know, he could end up being a second corner down the road somewhere...Shaun Phillips just broke out this year in what could be considered a similar situation, with a fourth rounder who had knocks on him, started as a backup, then became a solid player.

Average OT LB
07-15-2007, 10:05 PM
Then maybe thats what he ends up being, but if he's a solid backup, I don't know what more we could get out of a fourth rounder....no fourth rounder was gonan come in here and start....For all we know, he could end up being a second corner down the road somewhere...Shaun Phillips just broke out this year in what could be considered a similar situation, with a fourth rounder who had knocks on him, started as a backup, then became a solid player.

yeah sure its possible... i doubt it though but i guess we'll see...

As far as charger backsup turn starters go, how do you think our FS and ILBs will preform

JK17
07-15-2007, 10:14 PM
yeah sure its possible... i doubt it though but i guess we'll see...

As far as charger backsup turn starters go, how do you think our FS and ILBs will preform

I have much more faith in Wilhelm/Cooper then I do in Hart. Wilhelm I've liked for a while, and I liked the rumors of him starting last year. He's athletic, and he could be a guy who can step in for Edwards' role, with a little better impact in the run game then Edwards' had. Cooper I'm not as thrilled about, he's an okay player, who I don't see much potential to be great at anything...although he could be just "good enough" to keep our defense at a high level.

Hart I don't know. I'm just not sold on him that he can do it. Eventually Weddle will take that spot (though I get the sense you're not a Weddle fan), but Hart has to be able to hold his own this year. Then again, we've had a weak secondary for a while now, and this year its probably stronger then its ever been, so who knows, maybe he can hold down the spot, at least for a year, without too many problems.

Average OT LB
07-16-2007, 07:01 PM
I have much more faith in Wilhelm/Cooper then I do in Hart. Wilhelm I've liked for a while, and I liked the rumors of him starting last year. He's athletic, and he could be a guy who can step in for Edwards' role, with a little better impact in the run game then Edwards' had. Cooper I'm not as thrilled about, he's an okay player, who I don't see much potential to be great at anything...although he could be just "good enough" to keep our defense at a high level.

Hart I don't know. I'm just not sold on him that he can do it. Eventually Weddle will take that spot (though I get the sense you're not a Weddle fan), but Hart has to be able to hold his own this year. Then again, we've had a weak secondary for a while now, and this year its probably stronger then its ever been, so who knows, maybe he can hold down the spot, at least for a year, without too many problems.


Well you're right i dont like weddle. Its not like i know all that much about him but all everyone says is that hes 'so good' and that bothers me. I look at him like a undersized guy who isnt very fast or very strong and he made a few plays on a okay team against average opponents. Alot of his 'strengths' pages mentioned repeatedly that he was a playmaker. Yeah like that means anything to me. What exactly does someone have to do to have a knack for making big plays, especially on defense. In my opinion you cant say that about an average ncaa athlete going to the nfl because fumbles that they were at some time the first to get to, they no longer will be.

JK17
07-16-2007, 11:09 PM
Well you're right i dont like weddle. Its not like i know all that much about him but all everyone says is that hes 'so good' and that bothers me. I look at him like a undersized guy who isnt very fast or very strong and he made a few plays on a okay team against average opponents. Alot of his 'strengths' pages mentioned repeatedly that he was a playmaker. Yeah like that means anything to me. What exactly does someone have to do to have a knack for making big plays, especially on defense. In my opinion you cant say that about an average ncaa athlete going to the nfl because fumbles that they were at some time the first to get to, they no longer will be.

I see him as an athletic guy, and a hard worker. I know this could be viewed as a knock on him, saying he reached his peak in college, but he was always prepared, and always ready for whatever he had coming his way. When you combine his athleticism, and his preparedness for games, its something that is going to translate well, at least IMO. The thing I like msot about him is he just always seems to be the guy you can count on to make a big play, whether its offense or defense, he is a player. You say it won't work in the NFL, but I don't know, Edwards always seemed to be around the ball, and McCree, when he wasn't fumbling, was always around the ball as well...Weddle could be that guy for us.

Average OT LB
07-16-2007, 11:33 PM
I see him as an athletic guy, and a hard worker. I know this could be viewed as a knock on him, saying he reached his peak in college, but he was always prepared, and always ready for whatever he had coming his way. When you combine his athleticism, and his preparedness for games, its something that is going to translate well, at least IMO. The thing I like msot about him is he just always seems to be the guy you can count on to make a big play, whether its offense or defense, he is a player. You say it won't work in the NFL, but I don't know, Edwards always seemed to be around the ball, and McCree, when he wasn't fumbling, was always around the ball as well...Weddle could be that guy for us.

I didnt say there werent any big play guys on the chargers team, i didnt say that edwards wasnt a playmaker and i didnt say that mccree wasnt either. What i did say was that weddle will find out quickly that in the NFL everyone is alot faster then in college and the time that a ball is loose on the ground wont be for long. I attribute playmaking ability to athletic skills and preperation. Hes got one down, but unfortunately for him the one he doesnt have is the one you cant teach.

JK17
07-16-2007, 11:37 PM
I didnt say there werent any big play guys on the chargers team, i didnt say that edwards wasnt a playmaker and i didnt say that mccree wasnt either. What i did say was that weddle will find out quickly that in the NFL everyone is alot faster then in college and the time that a ball is loose on the ground wont be for long. I attribute playmaking ability to athletic skills and preperation. Hes got one down, but unfortunately for him the one he doesnt have is the one you cant teach.

Which one do you feel he doesn't have? Athleticism and Preparation are what I feel are his strongest suits....Size is where I would be concerned with Weddle, not his athletic capabilities/preparation.

As far his finding out the NFL is quicker, yeah he definitely will, but I'm sure, or at least hopeful, as all people are with rookies, he can learn the speed of the game. Not even LaRon Landry will know NFL speed for sure until he gets there.

Average OT LB
07-16-2007, 11:42 PM
Which one do you feel he doesn't have? Athleticism and Preparation are what I feel are his strongest suits....Size is where I would be concerned with Weddle, not his athletic capabilities/preparation.

As far his finding out the NFL is quicker, yeah he definitely will, but I'm sure, or at least hopeful, as all people are with rookies, he can learn the speed of the game. Not even LaRon Landry will know NFL speed for sure until he gets there.

i was talking about athletic capabilites which i believe directly correlates with size speed and strength.. now you seem to know alot about weddle.. tell me if he is big enough fast enough and strong enough to play S for the chargers and preform equal to his value (remember we traded to get him in the early second)

JK17
07-16-2007, 11:59 PM
i was talking about athletic capabilites which i believe directly correlates with size speed and strength.. now you seem to know alot about weddle.. tell me if he is big enough fast enough and strong enough to play S for the chargers and preform equal to his value (remember we traded to get him in the early second)

I don't know if he'll ever equal his value, we gave a lot up for him. I'm not saying if it was a good draft day move or not, but I do know that I like his athletic abilities. He ran a 4.48 at the combine, which isn't blazing speed, but I like his agility and on the field use of his abilities. Watching his films he's quick to the ball, and when he gets the ball in his hands, watch out, cause he's tough to touch.

His versatility is another big thing the organization, and draft experts, loved about him.

From Wikiepedia...

Turner also had this to say about Weddle: "First of all Eric is a guy makes a strong impression on you right away. Hes a confident guy. Hes an outgoing guy. I think the fact that this guy can line-up and play safety, play on the slot and hes played outside and corner at Utah. They showed one of the clips and we caught some of it but they showed one of him lined-up at quarterback on third down and taking a shotgun snap and running with the ball. Hes a highly intelligent player and he has a knack. Some guys have it and some guys dont. There were a couple plays that we were looking at and Ted Cottrell (defensive coordinator) called me in one day and said look at this play and he tackles the guy from behind, spins him and when they both bounce off the ground Eric has the ball in his hand and he never touches the ground, he picks it up and runs it in for a touchdown. As Buddy said, he had four returns for touchdowns. Hes a guy that finds a way to make plays. He gives us versatility in the secondary, and obviously gives us a guy that will be a playmaker on special teams. Our defensive coaches were really excited when we walked down the hall and said were going to get this player

In an interview with Chargers.com after the draft, Buddy Nix and new head coach Norv Turner were asked about their opinion of Weddle. When asked what he liked about him most, Nix responded, "I think his versatility is one thing. Our defense, instead of having to substitute and guess when you start getting full of wide-outs and that kind of thing, this guy can walk up and play the slot man which is hard to do without having to substitute, like on third down when we would play nickel or dime. But if they throw it out there at you and dont have somebody that can go down and play on the slot, then it causes you problems."

According to Gil Brandt of NFL.com and NFL Draft Scout.com, at 203lbs [5], Weddle timed a 40-yard dash at 4.48 seconds, had a 4.12s 20yd shuttle, and 6.78s in the three cone drill, 33 1/2" vertical jump, and lifted 225 lbs. 11 times at the 2007 NFL Combine.[6]

Compared with Landry's pro day/combine numbers, Weddle was slower in the 40, but quicker in both the 20 yard shuttle, and three cone drill. Landry has no record I can find of bench press, but I'm sure he is stronger then Weddle. Basically, its his agility I like more then speeed.

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 12:18 AM
I don't know if he'll ever equal his value, we gave a lot up for him. I'm not saying if it was a good draft day move or not, but I do know that I like his athletic abilities. He ran a 4.48 at the combine, which isn't blazing speed, but I like his agility and on the field use of his abilities. Watching his films he's quick to the ball, and when he gets the ball in his hands, watch out, cause he's tough to touch.

His versatility is another big thing the organization, and draft experts, loved about him.

From Wikiepedia...







Compared with Landry's pro day/combine numbers, Weddle was slower in the 40, but quicker in both the 20 yard shuttle, and three cone drill. Landry has no record I can find of bench press, but I'm sure he is stronger then Weddle. Basically, its his agility I like more then speeed.

What did you mean when you said watching his films? like a few minutes of highlight footage on like youtube or chargers.com ... or actual films..

yeah so basically this confirms that the guy is versitile.. and that he was a playmaker in college.. can he be the guy we need on defense can he be a playmaker on a 3-4 SD defense? I breezed through the articles but im pretty sure the only thing they said about his transition to the nfl was that he was smart and could attribute immediately on special teams... and that he was versitile of course..

JK17
07-17-2007, 12:23 AM
What did you mean when you said watching his films? like a few minutes of highlight footage on like youtube or chargers.com ... or actual films..

yeah so basically this confirms that the guy is versitile.. and that he was a playmaker in college.. can he be the guy we need on defense can he be a playmaker on a 3-4 SD defense? I breezed through the articles but im pretty sure the only thing they said about his transition to the nfl was that he was smart and could attribute immediately on special teams... and that he was versitile of course..

I mean watching what I can find, I don't have unlimited footage of Utah's season, but from what I've seen he looks explosive, and looks like he can make an impact on the team. When you contrast Weddle with other safeties who you may feel we'd be better off with, are you watching all their plays, because I doubt you have an entire archive of college film on your television.
I'm just reporting what I've seen from him.

I don't rememeber ever saying he would contribute anywhere else his first year, but his versatility is huge. Look at what Nix, Cotrell, Norv all said about the guy, and how many door he opens up for them. His awareness too, makes him more likely to be able to contribute quicker, as well as the fact that he prides himslef on his preparation. The guys not going to be a day one starter, but he could develop into a solid safety. I don't know what else you want, we're not going to have pro-bowlers everywhere, and maybe Weddle won't be worth his trade, but what else could we have done in the draft?

Plus in terms of showing his athleticism, he's more agile, according to his combine numbers, then the #1 safety in the draft, that says something about him.

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 12:32 AM
I mean watching what I can find, I don't have unlimited footage of Utah's season, but from what I've seen he looks explosive, and looks like he can make an impact on the team. When you contrast Weddle with other safeties who you may feel we'd be better off with, are you watching all their plays, because I doubt you have an entire archive of college film on your television.
I'm just reporting what I've seen from him.

I don't rememeber ever saying he would contribute anywhere else his first year, but his versatility is huge. Look at what Nix, Cotrell, Norv all said about the guy, and how many door he opens up for them. His awareness too, makes him more likely to be able to contribute quicker, as well as the fact that he prides himslef on his preparation. The guys not going to be a day one starter, but he could develop into a solid safety. I don't know what else you want, we're not going to have pro-bowlers everywhere, and maybe Weddle won't be worth his trade, but what else could we have done in the draft?

Plus in terms of showing his athleticism, he's more agile, according to his combine numbers, then the #1 safety in the draft, that says something about him.

First maybe the number 1 safety isnt exactly agile.. maybe hes good for other reasons .. like .. everything else

anyways.. the film i ahve on all the other safeties isnt college stuff.. its gameday stuff. No, i dont tivo the games (actually i do but not this next part) and then study the footage and breakdown preformance. But the thing is i have never seen weddle play a game in my life, but i have seen every other safety play, and ive seen them quite a bit (remember pre season too, plus they've been in the nfl awhile).

Also, what are our coaches supposed to say about a player they traded alot to get? hes bad, he sucks, hes terrible? i dont think they'd go that way. cause its not like they can say they love his speed, size, or strenth..Instead i think they'd say stuff that you cant really counter.. like saying hes a playmaker..

JK17
07-17-2007, 12:45 AM
First maybe the number 1 safety isnt exactly agile.. maybe hes good for other reasons .. like .. everything else

It was just an example of one player who he was more agile then, and by extension, maybe more athletic. He was within .02 of Griffin's 40 yard shuttle, and .17 of his 3-cone drill. He beat Merriweather in every category (by a good amount), except the 40, which he lost by .01. So those other two safeties he was just as, or more agile then, so its not just the number one guy. And besides, we're talking agility, not overall ability, so thats just two more top "safeties" he could be considered more athletic then. I'm not trying to prove he's better then them, or should be number one, just that he has the same athletic gifts they do.

anyways.. the film i ahve on all the other safeties isnt college stuff.. its gameday stuff. No, i dont tivo the games (actually i do but not this next part) and then study the footage and breakdown preformance. But the thing is i have never seen weddle play a game in my life, but i have seen every other safety play, and ive seen them quite a bit (remember pre season too, plus they've been in the nfl awhile).

So then now I'm a little confused...are you comparing Weddle to already pro safeties, because thats what it sounds like is going on...If so then no wonder Weddle doesn't look as good as them, he hasn't had any time to become accustomed to the pro game yet anyway, and its going to take him some time, as it does most rookies. So I don't know how you can be judging him on pro-standards already, when all I was saying was that Weddle looks explosive on flims I've seen of him. Really, any film your watching there thats not about Weddle, or another college safety, has no significance to the conversation at all. All I used his film for was to justify his play-making abilities, not that he was the second Ed Reed or anything.

Also, what are our coaches supposed to say about a player they traded alot to get? hes bad, he sucks, hes terrible? i dont think they'd go that way. cause its not like they can say they love his speed, size, or strenth..Instead i think they'd say stuff that you cant really counter.. like saying hes a playmaker..


I hate this argument too, what are the coaches supposed to say. No they're not going to say he's a bad player obviously, but they're going to answer thruthfully why they like him. They like his versatility and his ability to make plays happen. Those are things you can't counter because they are true. He was a versatile player in college, and he did make loads of plays. They can say they like his size too, he's 5-11 205, thats not exactly terrible safety size. It's not huge, but I'm sure he can survive at that size. His speed and agility sure aren't bad either, see him in comparison to some of the other prospects. He's a little slower then Merriweather and Griffin (granted,a lot slower then Nelson and Landry), but his speed is nothing to scoff at, and his agility makes up for the lack of speed he may have. The only thing you acually cant say you like there is his strength.

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 12:56 AM
It was just an example of one player who he was more agile then, and by extension, maybe more athletic. He was within .02 of Griffin's 40 yard shuttle, and .17 of his 3-cone drill. He beat Merriweather in every category (by a good amount), except the 40, which he lost by .01. So those other two safeties he was just as, or more agile then, so its not just the number one guy. And besides, we're talking agility, not overall ability, so thats just two more top "safeties" he could be considered more athletic then. I'm not trying to prove he's better then them, or should be number one, just that he has the same athletic gifts they do.



So then now I'm a little confused...are you comparing Weddle to already pro safeties, because thats what it sounds like is going on...If so then no wonder Weddle doesn't look as good as them, he hasn't had any time to become accustomed to the pro game yet anyway, and its going to take him some time, as it does most rookies. So I don't know how you can be judging him on pro-standards already, when all I was saying was that Weddle looks explosive on flims I've seen of him. Really, any film your watching there thats not about Weddle, or another college safety, has no significance to the conversation at all. All I used his film for was to justify his play-making abilities, not that he was the second Ed Reed or anything.




I hate this argument too, what are the coaches supposed to say. No they're not going to say he's a bad player obviously, but they're going to answer thruthfully why they like him. They like his versatility and his ability to make plays happen. Those are things you can't counter because they are true. He was a versatile player in college, and he did make loads of plays. They can say they like his size too, he's 5-11 205, thats not exactly terrible safety size. It's not huge, but I'm sure he can survive at that size. His speed and agility sure aren't bad either, see him in comparison to some of the other prospects. He's a little slower then Merriweather and Griffin (granted,a lot slower then Nelson and Landry), but his speed is nothing to scoff at, and his agility makes up for the lack of speed he may have. The only thing you acually cant say you like there is his strength.

okay so you're first paragraph proved exactly why he was picked ahead of all those players right? why he was a first round pick? no.. well maybe it proves why he was picked ahead of those players, but at a later time? oh he was the last one?
So maybe hes pretty quick and not so slow, but maybe he needs to be if hes not a big guy. Whatever he is, theres one thing you and i can agree on, is that hes not flashy whatsoever.

You're next paragraph was kind of confusing. I am comparing the him to pro safeties, because that's how you're supposed to do it. Hes gotta be better than hart and jue to play.. how am i supposed to figure all that out by not watching them play in the nfl.. and instead digging up college stuff..
to say its irrelevant is silly.. instead i think its irrelevant to say that he was 'explosive' in college. what does explosive mean anyway? maybe it meant he was a playmaker...

lastly, i feel that his only hope at being anything special is to be a john lynch. There is still hope for weddle by no means am i writting him off. I'm just hoping to show you that there isn't anything to be getting excited about and that he (shouldnt) deserve high praise. To continue what i was saying about lynch, i think weddle is either a hit or miss prospect; hit = john lynch // miss = bust

JK17
07-17-2007, 01:10 AM
You are wrong right now on so many levels.

okay so you're first paragraph proved exactly why he was picked ahead of all those players right? why he was a first round pick? no.. well maybe it proves why he was picked ahead of those players, but at a later time? oh he was the last one?
So maybe hes pretty quick and not so slow, but maybe he needs to be if hes not a big guy. Whatever he is, theres one thing you and i can agree on, is that hes not flashy whatsoever.

First of all, I just want to bring to your attention, in case you missed it when I clearly stated it...

I'm not trying to prove he's better then them, or should be number one, just that he has the same athletic gifts they do.

So why in the world you would act like I'm trying to say he was a better safety then those guys is beyond me, maybe you should read more carefully though. What I'm saying though is what my first paragraph showed. That he is just as, if not more, athletic then those other guys. Isn't that what the argument was originally about, that you said he was not an athletic player? Yet his agility and speed would seem to show otherwise. Then, since you actually know that he is athletic you try to cover it up by saying he doesn't have the right size... Well I'm sure you looked at all the other prospects then too right....did you?

1. LaRon Landry L.S.U. 6-0 1/2 213 4.35
2. Michael Griffin Texas 5-11 3/4 202 4.45
3. Brandon Meriweather Miami (FL) 5-10 5/8 195 4.47
4. Reggie Nelson Florida 5-11 3/8 198 4.48
5. Eric Weddle Utah 5-11 1/4 203 4.48

Well He's the same height as Nelson and Griffin, taller then Merriewather and only an inch shorter then Landry. He's also the second biggest out of all of them, so if he's undersized, which prospect isnt?

And how is he not flashy? What I like most about him is his playmaking, his touchdown returns, his versatility...thats flashy to me.


You're next paragraph was kind of confusing. I am comparing the him to pro safeties, because that's how you're supposed to do it. Hes gotta be better than hart and jue to play.. how am i supposed to figure all that out by not watching them play in the nfl.. and instead digging up college stuff..
to say its irrelevant is silly.. instead i think its irrelevant to say that he was 'explosive' in college. what does explosive mean anyway? maybe it meant he was a playmaker...

Well why would you compare him that way, when I specifically said, I'm not expecting him to walk in right away and start. I'll try to make it very simple. I don't care, at this point in his career how he looks next to Ed Reed, Bob Sanders, even Marlon McCree. I care how he looks in comparsion to the guys we could have potentially had in thi draft class. Furthermore, I'm confused how you even judge his film against NFL players, being as he has no NFL film. Just because you feel he may struggle doesn't magically make NFL film of him appear where he does bad. All you can do is compare the guys who were in the same, or similar spots as him, and he looks just as explosive or just as much of a playmaker, as they all did. Which is all I was saying in the first place! Not that he was better then a pro safety, not that he should start from day one, not that he was even better then Michael Griffin, but that he is an explosive guy, a playmaker, so stop changing the argument to pro-production, when I agree he won't be a productive safety his first year.

lastly, i feel that his only hope at being anything special is to be a john lynch. There is still hope for weddle by no means am i writting him off. I'm just hoping to show you that there isn't anything to be getting excited about and that he should deserve high praise. To continue what i was saying about lynch, i think weddle is either a hit or miss prospect; hit = john lynch // miss = bust

I don't rememeber annointing him the second coming or anything like that. In fact, I even said specifically,
not that he was the second Ed Reed or anything.

The guys not going to be a day one starter, but he could develop into a solid safety.

I'm not overly excited about him being anything special at all, I'm perfectly happy with him being just a solid starter. The potential for him to be great is obviously there also, he was a draft pick who everyone agreed needs time to develop, so why don't you give him that time? I don't know why we are even talking about this though, since I keep repeating, I'm not arguing his conversion to the NFL, just that he is an athletic and explosive guy.

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 01:21 AM
You are wrong right now on so many levels.



First of all, I just want to bring to your attention, in case you missed it when I clearly stated it...



So why in the world you would act like I'm trying to say he was a better safety then those guys is beyond me, maybe you should read more carefully though. What I'm saying though is what my first paragraph showed. That he is just as, if not more, athletic then those other guys. Isn't that what the argument was originally about, that you said he was not an athletic player? Yet his agility and speed would seem to show otherwise. Then, since you actually know that he is athletic you try to cover it up by saying he doesn't have the right size... Well I'm sure you looked at all the other prospects then too right....did you?

1. LaRon Landry L.S.U. 6-0 1/2 213 4.35
2. Michael Griffin Texas 5-11 3/4 202 4.45
3. Brandon Meriweather Miami (FL) 5-10 5/8 195 4.47
4. Reggie Nelson Florida 5-11 3/8 198 4.48
5. Eric Weddle Utah 5-11 1/4 203 4.48

Well He's the same height as Nelson and Griffin, taller then Merriewather and only an inch shorter then Landry. He's also the second biggest out of all of them, so if he's undersized, which prospect isnt?

And how is he not flashy? What I like most about him is his playmaking, his touchdown returns, his versatility...thats flashy to me.




Well why would you compare him that way, when I specifically said, I'm not expecting him to walk in right away and start. I'll try to make it very simple. I don't care, at this point in his career how he looks next to Ed Reed, Bob Sanders, even Marlon McCree. I care how he looks in comparsion to the guys we could have potentially had in thi draft class. Furthermore, I'm confused how you even judge his film against NFL players, being as he has no NFL film. Just because you feel he may struggle doesn't magically make NFL film of him appear where he does bad. All you can do is compare the guys who were in the same, or similar spots as him, and he looks just as explosive or just as much of a playmaker, as they all did. Which is all I was saying in the first place! Not that he was better then a pro safety, not that he should start from day one, not that he was even better then Michael Griffin, but that he is an explosive guy, a playmaker, so stop changing the argument to pro-production, when I agree he won't be a productive safety his first year.



I don't rememeber annointing him the second coming or anything like that. In fact, I even said specifically,




I'm not overly excited about him being anything special at all, I'm perfectly happy with him being just a solid starter. The potential for him to be great is obviously there also, he was a draft pick who everyone agreed needs time to develop, so why don't you give him that time? I don't know why we are even talking about this though, since I keep repeating, I'm not arguing his conversion to the NFL, just that he is an athletic and explosive guy.

okay so im not gonna bother with the first stuff cause you'll probably just not understand what im saying again.. what i will say is this all of those guys were picked ahead of him for a reason...

My whole argument is based around you keep saying hes explosive! i just dont understand how you can say that at all. I'm not even gonna bother with oyur whole NFL/college film thing thats all just silly... Each one of those other guys has something explosive that sets them apart of weddle. to name just a few: Nelson - speed, Landry- alot, merriweather - hits, Griffin i think is outstanding

What does weddle have?! okay so hes in the same ballpark.. we traded to get him cause if we didnt we would be stuck with no possible upgrade (theres no saftey after him) ...

JK17
07-17-2007, 01:31 AM
okay so im not gonna bother with the first stuff cause you'll probably just not understand what im saying again.. what i will say is this all of those guys were picked ahead of him for a reason...

Or you just don't have an answer, since I disproved your theory about his size being to small, or him not being athletic enough. I'm not dumb I get what your saying about people being picked ahead of him, but I can't find anywhere in this thread where I said I liked any of those guys less then Weddle. Give me any of them over Weddle, I agree with that, but it has no relevance to our argument.

My whole argument is based around you keep saying hes explosive! i just dont understand how you can say that at all. I'm not even gonna bother with oyur whole NFL/college film thing thats all just silly... Each one of those other guys has something explosive that sets them apart of weddle. to name just a few: Nelson - speed, Landry- alot, merriweather - hits, Griffin i think is outstanding

Okay, so you just backed up me saying he's not explosive...by saying...there are players who have things above him. Call me crazy, but where is your proof he is not explosive, other then you just making a blanket statement like you can't understand why I say he's explosive? I could find you plenty of scouting reports or clips (I have) that reference his playmaking, awareness on the field, touchdown returns, etc. that would indicate he is explosive. But you saying that those other guys each have something over Weddle, is just ridiculous and in no way relates to Weddle's explosiveness, all it proves is that you feel they are better then Weddle, something I agreed wtih you on!

Nelson-Speed-Yes, I said that.
Landry-Everything except agility-clearly, he was a #6 pick for a reason
Meriweather-Hits-I find it hard to belive you know this for certain, since you already said you haven't seen Weddle play, and don't know what he can and cannot do. So for all you know Weddle blows Meriweather out of the water there.
Griffin-You think he's outstanding-Great I think Weddle is outstanding. It's opinion and has no reasion to be presented as fact.

Please, don't take that as me saying he's better then them, He's not, yet at least. I know that, I've said that.

What does weddle have?! okay so hes in the same ballpark.. we traded to get him cause if we didnt we would be stuck with no possible upgrade (theres no saftey after him) ...

Weddle has better preparation then all those guys and he's more agile. There, there's something he has, and its more provebale then anything you said about the other guys having over him.

Yes, that's why we traded to get him. I know that, what did you want us to do?



Clearly we have very different views on this, so our argument will go back and forth forever...anyone else have views on this, I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong, but with what I'm saying I don't see how I can be, I'm not saying he's better then any of these guys...Anyone?

sdpads24
07-17-2007, 01:40 AM
You two could go all day couldn't you?

JK17
07-17-2007, 01:40 AM
You two could go all day couldn't you?

Absolutely :p....the offseason is very boring without some arguments.

sdpads24
07-17-2007, 01:49 AM
Absolutely :p....the offseason is very boring without some arguments.

I really enjoy reading what both of you have to say, you're obviously both great fans. Im really looking forward to seeing Weddle play, hopefully he's going to be a fun player to watch for many years.

JK17
07-17-2007, 01:51 AM
I really enjoy reading what both of you have to say, you're obviously both great fans. Im really looking forward to seeing Weddle play, hopefully he's going to be a fun player to watch for many years.

Haha, I can't wait to see him either...and yeah, AOTLB, obviously you know what your talking about and understand football...I'm stubborn though, if you haven't noticed and don't do the whole backing down thing...nice to have some new Charger fans around here though...

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 02:12 AM
Or you just don't have an answer, since I disproved your theory about his size being to small, or him not being athletic enough. I'm not dumb I get what your saying about people being picked ahead of him, but I can't find anywhere in this thread where I said I liked any of those guys less then Weddle. Give me any of them over Weddle, I agree with that, but it has no relevance to our argument.



Okay, so you just backed up me saying he's not explosive...by saying...there are players who have things above him. Call me crazy, but where is your proof he is not explosive, other then you just making a blanket statement like you can't understand why I say he's explosive? I could find you plenty of scouting reports or clips (I have) that reference his playmaking, awareness on the field, touchdown returns, etc. that would indicate he is explosive. But you saying that those other guys each have something over Weddle, is just ridiculous and in no way relates to Weddle's explosiveness, all it proves is that you feel they are better then Weddle, something I agreed wtih you on!

Nelson-Speed-Yes, I said that.
Landry-Everything except agility-clearly, he was a #6 pick for a reason
Meriweather-Hits-I find it hard to belive you know this for certain, since you already said you haven't seen Weddle play, and don't know what he can and cannot do. So for all you know Weddle blows Meriweather out of the water there.
Griffin-You think he's outstanding-Great I think Weddle is outstanding. It's opinion and has no reasion to be presented as fact.

Please, don't take that as me saying he's better then them, He's not, yet at least. I know that, I've said that.



Weddle has better preparation then all those guys and he's more agile. There, there's something he has, and its more provebale then anything you said about the other guys having over him.

Yes, that's why we traded to get him. I know that, what did you want us to do?



Clearly we have very different views on this, so our argument will go back and forth forever...anyone else have views on this, I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong, but with what I'm saying I don't see how I can be, I'm not saying he's better then any of these guys...Anyone?

im sure as you've noticed ive been trying to keep my posts shorter and shorter becasue apparently you like to take any non-perfect thing i say and throw it completely into the fire. Its very frustrating to argue with you since you're basically saying that hes better than all those other guys, but isnt.. (let me explain that since surely you'll have a problem with it. WHat i mean to say is that you have all these stats pointing towards how equal they are and also point to other things that make him so great..so you might not come out and say hes the best but you'll definitely say it indirectly) and then saying its irrelevant when i talk..

As for the explosive issue and the playmaking issue i think i said earlier that there is no counter for it.. or did you forget that.. and then didnt i ask what explosiveness was? your answer was what? how can i dissprove something that has no stat! thats just why i said there is no counter for playmaking because its all instincts and physical abilitiy.. instincts can also be related to preperation.. (< i threw that in because i knew i said it earlier and i have to be oh so perfect when i disagree with you) oh right you have a bunch of other peoples opinion that say hes a playmaker.. great that really means that he was a playmaker in college! something i have agreed to a thousand times! lets see it in the NFL. Also let me say this- i have not said he wasnt explosive, i said i found it frustrating how you keep saying he is. What i did say was that he was not flashy. and he isnt. you said he was flashy cause he scored tds. thats great, my contention is that you wont see him scoring 4 tds or w/e it was in the nfl .. because everyones really good (and fast).

As for the NFL films thing... i did not say i was looking at games of ed reed or anyone like that.. im not saying this guy will come in and flop.. i am not saying he is not explosive.. what i am saying is that i have seen our players and they are good, i dont htink weddle wil lcome in and be what you think he will be. i dont think that he can be a playmaker in the nfl. the whole films part of you're argument is kind of confusing because i think you just misunderstood.

AS for the athletic thing, everyone in the nfl is like 6'0 200 pounds and runs like a 3.2. Thats the nfl. in college everyone is spread out and the stars can really really shine. I am not saying that weddle was not a good college athlete. I do point to the fact that the players around him were not as good and the teams were not as complex as the ones he will face in the NFL. This guy is one i can see being a bust very easily because hes not great at anything. hes not faster bigger or stronger then the next guy. you hope he can be a solid starter. I say that if these gret preperation skills hold up and all that junk you had coaches praising than he will be amazing. Because if hes not amazing, he will be a bust. Why? because he has no skill set to fall back on. There is no medium ground for this player in my opinion. He needs those skills you talked about to keep him in the game, casue like i said if he doesnt have those skills hes very very average.

JK17
07-17-2007, 02:21 AM
im sure as you've noticed ive been trying to keep my posts shorter and shorter becasue apparently you like to take any non-perfect thing i say and throw it completely into the fire. Its very frustrating to argue with you since you're basically saying that hes better than all those other guys, but isnt.. (let me explain that since surely you'll have a problem with it. WHat i mean to say is that you have all these stats pointing towards how equal they are and also point to other things that make him so great..so you might not come out and say hes the best but you'll definitely say it indirectly) and then saying its irrelevant when i talk..


I'm alll about shortening it down now, since its so late and all. I get what you mean but all I'm intending to do with my stats is explain that he is athletic, or at least on par with the others in terms of speed, agility, etc. Where he differs is that he isn't the same player as them on the field, yes he's explosive but he's not nearly as polished or as accomplished a safety as the others.

As for the explosive issue and the playmaking issue i think i said earlier that there is no counter for it.. or did you forget that.. and then didnt i ask what explosiveness was? your answer was what? how can i dissprove something that has no stat! thats just why i said there is no counter for playmaking because its all instincts and physical abilitiy.. instincts can also be related to preperation.. (< i threw that in because i knew i said it earlier and i have to be oh so perfect when i disagree with you) oh right you have a bunch of other peoples opinion that say hes a playmaker.. great that really means that he was a playmaker in college! something i have agreed to a thousand times! lets see it in the NFL. Also let me say this- i have not said he wasnt explosive, i said i found it frustrating how you keep saying he is. What i did say was that he was not flashy. and he isnt. you said he was flashy cause he scored tds. thats great, my contention is that you wont see him scoring 4 tds or w/e it was in the nfl .. because everyones really good (and fast).

My answer for his explosiveness is what he's done in college, since there really is no other way to judge him right now. Its too early to say he can do it in the NFL, and to early to say he can't. I think what you just said shows he is flashy, at least now, because taht's what he was in college. What more can he prove until he hits the NFL. That's where the disagreement is here. Im content with the explosiveness he's shown in college, whereas you don't care about it, because you feel it can't be done in the NFL. Neither of us are wrong here, he was explosive in college, and hasn't shown he can't do it in the NFL, but he hasn't shown he can either.

As for the NFL films thing... i did not say i was looking at games of ed reed or anyone like that.. im not saying this guy will come in and flop.. i am not saying he is not explosive.. what i am saying is that i have seen our players and they are good, i dont htink weddle wil lcome in and be what you think he will be. i dont think that he can be a playmaker in college. the whole films part of you're argument is kind of confusing because i think you just misunderstood.

Yeah, I'd agre mostly there that he's not as good as the guys we have yet, the only disagreemnt I would have there is the playmaker thing. I don't know how you can say he won't be, when he has given you no reason to believe he can't be.

AS for the athletic thing, everyone in the nfl is like 6'0 200 pounds and runs like a 3.2. Thats the nfl. in college everyone is spread out and the stars can really really shine. I am not saying that weddle was not a good college athlete. I do point to the fact that the players around him were not as good and the teams were not as complex as the ones he will face in the NFL. This guy is one i can see being a bust very easily because hes not great at anything. hes not faster bigger or stronger then the next guy. you hope he can be a solid starter. I say that if these gret preperation skills hold up and all that junk you had coaches praising than he will be amazing. Because if hes not amazing, he will be a bust. Why? because he has no skill set to fall back on. There is no medium ground for this player in my opinion. He needs those skills you talked about to keep him in the game, casue like i said if he doesnt have those skills hes very very average.

More stuff about college vs pros. I like Weddle, and think he can adjust his game. You're not sold on him until he actaully does it, and are scared he'll bust big-time. I don't think he'll do it right away, but I have faith that our scouting department and GM knew what they were doing when they tried to get him, and if they feel hes got the attitude to become a star/solid player in the NFL, I'll trust them, for now.


I say we ditch the subject, and hold off the debate on Weddle for at least until TC or preseason, since nothing new will come up until then....

What's next on the Chargers' discussion agenda?

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 02:31 AM
I'm alll about shortening it down now, since its so late and all. I get what you mean but all I'm intending to do with my stats is explain that he is athletic, or at least on par with the others in terms of speed, agility, etc. Where he differs is that he isn't the same player as them on the field, yes he's explosive but he's not nearly as polished or as accomplished a safety as the others.



My answer for his explosiveness is what he's done in college, since there really is no other way to judge him right now. Its too early to say he can do it in the NFL, and to early to say he can't. I think what you just said shows he is flashy, at least now, because taht's what he was in college. What more can he prove until he hits the NFL. That's where the disagreement is here. Im content with the explosiveness he's shown in college, whereas you don't care about it, because you feel it can't be done in the NFL. Neither of us are wrong here, he was explosive in college, and hasn't shown he can't do it in the NFL, but he hasn't shown he can either.



Yeah, I'd agre mostly there that he's not as good as the guys we have yet, the only disagreemnt I would have there is the playmaker thing. I don't know how you can say he won't be, when he has given you no reason to believe he can't be.



More stuff about college vs pros. I like Weddle, and think he can adjust his game. You're not sold on him until he actaully does it, and are scared he'll bust big-time. I don't think he'll do it right away, but I have faith that our scouting department and GM knew what they were doing when they tried to get him, and if they feel hes got the attitude to become a star/solid player in the NFL, I'll trust them, for now.


I say we ditch the subject, and hold off the debate on Weddle for at least until TC or preseason, since nothing new will come up until then....

What's next on the Chargers' discussion agenda?


for a change i agree with you completely across the board. I'm glad you were able to pinpoint our differences and just label them instead of attempting to further the argument. It appears quite obvious to me and to you that we just wont agree and there are no stats left to prove the other wrong. I truley am a pessimist and you are not.
Although you didnt cave i agree to a standoff lol. I agree that its too early to tell anything and that if AJ smith likes him than he must be good. IF there is one thing i will never question, its the work of AJ SMith. I think the man is a proven genius and everything he touches goes to gold. He probably lives in a glass house and has no broken windows. The man is untouchable. Hes a higher being, a god perhaps.

..yeah i like aj..

operation wait till pre season has commenced.. JK17 could make a wolverine purr..

bergo23
07-17-2007, 11:06 AM
Anybody think Oliver could play safety? He might help with depth there down the line as well, for a late 4th round pick....it was another AJ Heist!!!!

Average OT LB
07-17-2007, 04:50 PM
Anybody think Oliver could play safety? He might help with depth there down the line as well, for a late 4th round pick....it was another AJ Heist!!!!

i dont see him being high on the depth chart for either S or CB. at best he'd be the number 5 safety and the number 4 cb depending on what we do with the guys we got.

JK17
07-17-2007, 11:02 PM
i dont see him being high on the depth chart for either S or CB. at best he'd be the number 5 safety and the number 4 cb depending on what we do with the guys we got.

He'll prob be on the roster as the number four corner, and I think that means cuts for guys like Cletis Gordon....

Any suprise cuts you guys expect to come this year?

JK17
07-20-2007, 12:17 AM
Okay well that sure didn't fire up any discussion lets try somethign new....

Do you guys think LT will put the same numbers, or not same, since they were so good, but close to as high numbers as he did, or will Rivers development and additional touchdowns, yards, plays, etc. take too much away from that.

I think LT is going to be at around 1700 yards this year and 22 TD rushing, with maybe 25 total, because we should expect at least 3-5 more TDs from Rivers (along with more INT as the reigns still come off him), as he'll be a growing part of the offense.

sdpads24
07-20-2007, 12:33 AM
Okay well that sure didn't fire up any discussion lets try somethign new....

Do you guys think LT will put the same numbers, or not same, since they were so good, but close to as high numbers as he did, or will Rivers development and additional touchdowns, yards, plays, etc. take too much away from that.

I think LT is going to be at around 1700 yards this year and 22 TD rushing, with maybe 25 total, because we should expect at least 3-5 more TDs from Rivers (along with more INT as the reigns still come off him), as he'll be a growing part of the offense.

I definitely expect a sort of down year from LT. When I say down year I don't mean a ''bad year', just signs of being human. I think Norv will try and get Micheal Turner involved as much as possible and that will be a decrease in numbers for LT. I also think we will see a lot more dump off passes from Rivers alowing Lt or Turner to run in the open field so we won't see as many rushing TD's. As far as predictions go, for Lt I'll say 1500 yards rushing and 20 total td's. I don't see us having any big name cuts, but I'll go out on the limb and say Bhawoh Jue will get cut. Not sure why I said that, but it seems this guy is always injured and that may factor into the decision.

Xenos
07-20-2007, 01:57 AM
okay so you're first paragraph proved exactly why he was picked ahead of all those players right? why he was a first round pick? no.. well maybe it proves why he was picked ahead of those players, but at a later time? oh he was the last one?
So maybe hes pretty quick and not so slow, but maybe he needs to be if hes not a big guy. Whatever he is, theres one thing you and i can agree on, is that hes not flashy whatsoever.

You're next paragraph was kind of confusing. I am comparing the him to pro safeties, because that's how you're supposed to do it. Hes gotta be better than hart and jue to play.. how am i supposed to figure all that out by not watching them play in the nfl.. and instead digging up college stuff..
to say its irrelevant is silly.. instead i think its irrelevant to say that he was 'explosive' in college. what does explosive mean anyway? maybe it meant he was a playmaker...

lastly, i feel that his only hope at being anything special is to be a john lynch. There is still hope for weddle by no means am i writting him off. I'm just hoping to show you that there isn't anything to be getting excited about and that he (shouldnt) deserve high praise. To continue what i was saying about lynch, i think weddle is either a hit or miss prospect; hit = john lynch // miss = bust
Well, Weddle isn't John Lynch even though they're both white. For one thing he seems to be a safety who can cover in space as opposed to John who is better in the box. A coverage safety is what we need after all.
Weddle's greatest attribtutes is his hard work ethic and intellgience. It's something that Bradley has praised Weddle for. That despite the fact that Weddle may be overmatched physically at times in practice, he never seems overwhelmed by the mental aspect of the game. This is important because of how much intellgience is required for the safety position. At the end of the day, preparation and intellgience are the two that will help you more than anything. Look at Lofa Tatupa. The guy is scrawny compared to other linebackers, but he's smart and prepares well, and thus is able to make plays because he anticpates them as opposed to react to them.

Oh and here's some interesting combine numbers that I got from Chargers.com
http://forums.chargers.com/showthread.php?t=41453&highlight=Eric+Weddle+explosion&page=4

The "short shuttle" also called the 20 yard shuttle, is a drill that measures change of direction in a player. Per Kirwan and Brandt, a player should be about a half second faster in the short shuttle than his 40 yard dash time. If he is .5 second faster, that shows the player has good change of direction. It's especially important for a DB to display a quick change of direction. To find this time (40 - short shuttle) I'll use the players best documented 40 time. Descriptions of the short shuttle and 3 cone (another change of direction drill) are here.

~~~~~~

Combine DB results

~~~~~~

* Laron Landry (LSU) - FS/SS -6'0" 213 (LSU Pro Day data)

40 = 4.35 (Combine)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.36 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = (-).01 This is a HORRIBLE score.
3 cone = 7.11

Vert - 38 (Pro Day) 37.5 (Combine)
Long jump - 10' 6" (Pro Day) - 10'3" (Combine)
Bench - 20 (pro day)
Power Explosion = 68.5


* Michael Griffin (Texas) FS/SS - 6'0" 202 lbs

40 = 4.45 (Combine) - 4.40 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.10 (Combine)
40 - short shuttle = .30
3 cone = 6.60

Vert - 39.5 (Pro Day) 36 (Combine)
Long jump - 10' (Combine)
Bench - 16
Power Explosion = 65.5


* Brandon Merriweather (Miami) - FS - 5'10" 195 lbs

40 = 4.47 (Combine)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.33 (Combine) - 4.42 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .14 (If I used Pro Day number, the difference is only .05. Again, that's horrible.)
3 cone = 7.06

Vert - 35 (Combine)
Long jump - 9'3" (Combine) - 9' (Pro Day)
Bench - 11
Power Explosion = 55

* Reggie Nelson (Florida) - FS - 6'0" 198 lbs

40 = 4.48 (Combine) - 4.35 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.15 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .33 (result .20 using Pro Day 40 time)
3 cone = 6.67 (Pro Day)

Vert - 35 (Pro Day) 34.5 (Combine)
Long jump - 10'6" (Pro Day)
Bench - I don't see his bench number listed anywhere. I googled the hell out of it, and no result.
Power Explosion =

* Eric Weddle (Utah) - SS - 5'11" 203 lbs

40 = 4.48 (Combine)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.12 (Combine)
40 - short shuttle = .36
3 cone = 6.78

Vert - 35 (Pro Day) 33.5 (Combine)
Long jump - 9'5" (Combine) - 9'6" (Pro Day)
Bench - 11
Power Explosion = 55.5

* Josh Gattis (Wake Forest) - FS - 6'1" 206 lbs

40 = 4.51 (Combine) - 4.47 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.27 (Combine) - 4.35 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .24 (Combine) - .13 (Pro Day)
3 cone = 6.72 (Combine) - 6.99 (Pro Day)

Vert - 35 (Pro Day) 34.5 (Combine)
Long jump - 10'1" (Combine) - 10'4" (Pro Day)
Bench - 22 (same result combine and pro day)
Power Explosion = 67


* Michael Johnson (Arizona) - SS - 6'3" 205 lbs

40 = 4.62 (Combine) - 4.53 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.32 (Combine) - 4.11 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .30 (Combine) - .42 (Pro Day)
3 cone = 7.04 (Combine) - 7.08 (Pro Day)

Vert - 35.5 (Pro Day) 33 (Combine)
Long jump - 9'6" (Combine) - 9'9" (Pro Day)
Bench - 15 (Combine) - 18 (Pro Day)
Power Explosion = 63 (using combo of best numbers)

* Aaron Rouse (Virginia Tech) - SS - 6-4 221

40 = 4.58 (Combine) - 4.53 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.19 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .34
3 cone = 6.81 (Pro Day)

Vert - 35 (Combine)
Long jump - 10'1" (Pro Day)
Bench - 16 (Combine)
Power Explosion = 61

* Sabby Piscitelli (Oregon St) - FS/SS - 6-3 224

40 = 4.47 (Combine) - 4.43 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 3.90 (Combine)
40 - SS = .53
3 cone = 6.84

Vert - 34 1/2
Long jump - 10' 2"
Bench - 19
Power Explosion = 63.5



* John Wendling (Wyoming) - FS/SS - 6'1" 222lbs

40 = 4.48 (Combine)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.16 (Combine)
40 - short shuttle = .32
3 cone = 6.96 (Combine)

Vert - 38.5 (Combine)
Long jump - 10'9" (Combine)
Bench - 22 (Combine)
Power Explosion = 71

Marvin White (TCU) - FS/SS -6'1" 195 lbs

40 = 4.54 (Combine) - 4.52 (Pro Day - 4.47 with the wind; 4.62 against the wind)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 4.39 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .13
3 cone = 6.98

Vert - 33.5 (Combine)
Long jump - 9' 6" (Pro Day)
Bench - 17 (Combine)
Power Explosion = 60

~~~~~~~
*edit* Another safety ....

#82 on Gosselin's Top 100 players

Melvin Bullitt, S, Texas A&M - 6'1" - 201 lbs

40 = 4.48 (Pro Day)
20 shuttle (short shuttle) 3.97 (Pro Day)
40 - short shuttle = .51
3 cone = 6.90

Vert - 40 1/2 (Pro Day)
Long jump - 10' 5" (Pro Day)
Bench - 15 (pro day)
Power Explosion = 65
__________________________________________________ _______________
Rankings:

40 yard dash minus short shuttle

1. Sabby Piscitelli (.53)
.. Melvin Bullitt (.51)
2. Michael Johnson (.42)
3. Eric Weddle (.36)
4. Aaron Rouse (.34)
5. Reggie Nelson (.33)
6. John Wendling (.32)
7. Michael Griffin (.30)
8. Josh Gattis (.24)
9. Brandon Merriweather (.14)
10. LaRon Landry (-.01)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Kirwan Power/Explosion Number

1. John Wendling -71
2. LaRon Landry - 68.5
3. Josh Gattis - 67
4. Michael Griffin - 65.5
.. Melvin Bullitt - 65
5. Sabby Piscitelli - 63.5
6. Michael Johnson - 63
7. Aaron Rouse - 61
8. Eric Weddle - 55.5
9. Brandon Merriweather - 55
10. Reggie Nelson - DNQ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


3 cone drill

1. Michael Griffin - 6.60
2. Reggie Nelson - 6.67
3. Josh Gattis - 6.72
4. Eric Weddle - 6.78
5. Aaron Rouse - 6.81
6. Sabby Piscitelli - 6.84
.. Melvin Bullitt - 6.90
7. John Wendling - 6.96
8. Michael Johnson - 7.04
9. Brandon Merriweather - 7.06
10. LaRon Landry - 7.11

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Short shuttle

1. Sabby Piscitelli - 3.90
.. Melvin Bullitt - 3.97
2. Michael Griffin - 4.10
3. Michael Johnson - 4.11
4. Eric Weddle - 4.12
5. Reggie Nelson - 4.15
6. John Wendling - 4.16
7. Aaron Rouse - 4.19
8. Josh Gattis - 4.27
9. Brandon Merriweather - 4.33
10. Laron Landry - 4.36
11. Marvin White - 4.39

bantx
07-20-2007, 02:14 AM
LT will have another great season, i mean come on hes LT, im expecting 1900 yds 30 tds, im expecting big i mean come on he still has the same offensive line as last year

sdpads24
07-23-2007, 11:44 PM
Chargers sign all draft picks!!!! (http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/chargers-agree-to.htm) Yay

CC.SD
07-24-2007, 12:29 AM
LT will have another great season, i mean come on hes LT, im expecting 1900 yds 30 tds, im expecting big i mean come on he still has the same offensive line as last year

It's possible, obviously. Here's something I haven't heard ANYBODY mention; LT started off 2006 slow. Pretty damn slow actually, for the standard he set the rest of the season. It wasn't until week 5 or so that McNeill really got his sealegs and LT went on a rampage that would frighten Godzilla. and nobody really stopped him the rest of the year, not even the Pats. I think it's possible that LT goes beserk the whole of 07.