Dallas Cowboys Discussion

[CTCowboysFan]

Julius went over a 1,000yds, he's at 1019. He's the first to cross 1,000 since Emmitt left am I right?

Yep. Too bad he did it averaging 2 yards a carry.

It's a darn shame.

[Poet3334]

I believe Carp had 1.5 sacks last night. Can anyone confirm?
You are correct sir. I thought Bobby had 2 but it turns out he shared one with Ware. Bobby played very well.

Thanks on the comfirmation. I thought I saw Carp lined up as a DT. Pretty interesting.

[Burns336]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

[Poet3334]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

[cowboysforever]

Fryman, I have explained each and every move and why. Go back and do the research.

I would also like to point out my predictions will come to fruition on personnel. Maybe not all but most.

With respect to Spears -- he has the body type and strength to play two gap plus good lateral movement. At 6 4 not too tall and is just a big thick MOFO.

With respect to Fergie, I luv Fergie. He is a Pro Bowler this season. Just think at his age better to start grooming someone in house. Takes some time to create a NT for BP' D.

See the NO prediction kids. Eagles tonite and Giants next week. Cowboys shot at bye.

[scoopdawg]

the boy's just clinched a playoff berth :D

[Number-94]

With the Eagles win can now root for the Giants to beat the saints for the 2nd seed.

Of course meaning we beat the Eagles.

[cowboysforever]

NO played their SB last week. GMen and Philly too v Cowboys.

Honestly, the Cowboys where unlucky enuff to play three teams on three weeks when each team played their 100 percent best game of the season.

Giants beat NO. NO may go 9-7.

Cowboys lay wood on Eagles. Revenge game for Cowboys.

11-5 with a bye.

[dpl85]

Well we cliched a playoff berth today without having to really do anything by virtue of Minnesota and Carolina losing. However, we can't possibly be content with just making the playoffs we want to have a home playoff game for the first time since I believe 1998. We want to win the division for the first time since I believe 98 or 99.

All I want for Christmas is a win over the Eagles! :D

[Poet3334]

Well we cliched a playoff berth today without having to really do anything by virtue of Minnesota and Carolina losing. However, we can't possibly be content with just making the playoffs we want to have a home playoff game for the first time since I believe 1998. We want to win the division for the first time since I believe 98 or 99.

All I want for Christmas is a win over the Eagles! :D

Me too

[cowboysforever]

NO played their SB last week. GMen and Philly too v Cowboys.

Honestly, the Cowboys where unlucky enuff to play three teams on three weeks when each team played their 100 percent best game of the season.

Giants beat NO. NO may go 9-7.

Cowboys lay wood on Eagles. Revenge game for Cowboys.

11-5 with a bye.

[Burns336]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him.

[Poet3334]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him.

So you're saying that Carp just happened to be in the right place so Vick could "run" into him? Vick sacked himself in other words right? Those type of sacks happen all of the time. That does not diminish the sack. Would you rather Carp not been there? Vick probably still would have been running. This is not being a homer, it's wanting someone on your team to step up and do their job. Frankly, you sound like a hater to me.

[Modano]

Yesterday was the first time i've rooted for the redskins in my life :D
Next we have a HUGE game. Who wins it, wins the NFC east...

[thule]

Well I broke down Parcell's first day draft history...trying to find a theme. One thing I noticed is Parcells seems to have a nitch drafting big-10 OL

New York Giants
1983
10- Terry Kinard, S, Clemson
37- Leonard Marshall, DT, LSU
63- Jamie Williams, TE, Nebraska
70- Karl Nelson, OT, Iowa State

1984
3- Carl Banks, OLB, Michigan State
27- William Roberts, OG, Ohio State
59- Jeff Hostetler, QB, West Virginia

1985
19- George Adams, RB, Kentucky
46- Stacy Robinson, WR, North Dakota State
58- Tyrone Davis, DB, Clemson
73- Brian Johnston, C, North Carolina

1986
19- Eric Dorsey, DE, Notre Dame
44- Mark Collins, CB, Cal State-Fullerton
46- Erik Howard, NT, Washington State
51- Pepper Johnson, MLB, Ohio State
53- Greg Lasker, DB, Arkansas
73- John Washington, DE, Oklahoma State

1987
28- Mark Ingram, WR, Michigan State
55- Adrian White, S, Florida
83- Stephen Baker, WR, Fresno State

1988
10- Eric Moore, OG, Indiana
36- John Elliott, OT, Michigan
62- Sheldon White, CB, Miami-Ohio

1989
18- Brian Williams, C, Minnesota
64- Bob Kratch, OG, Iowa
78- Greg Jackson, SS, LSU

1990
24- Rodney Hampton, RB, Georgia
51- Mike Fox, DE, West Virginia
79- Greg Mark, ILB, Miami

New England Patriots
1993
1- Drew Bledsoe, QB, Washington State
31- Chris Slade, DE, Virgina
51- Todd Rucci, OG, Penn State
56- Vincent Brisby, WR, Luisiana-Monroe

1994
4- Willie McGinest, OLB, USC
35- Kevin Lee, WR, Alabama
78- Ervin Collier, NT, Florida A&M
90- Joe Burch, C, Texas Southern

1995
23- Ty Law, CB, Michigan
57- Ted Johnson, ILB, Colorado
74- Curtis Martin, RB, Pittsburgh
88- Jimmy Hitchcock, CB, North Carolina

1996
7- Terry Glenn, WR, Ohio State
36- Lawyer Milloy, SS, Washington
86- Tedy Bruschi, ILB, Arizona

New York Jets
1997
8- James Farrior, ILB, Virgina
31- Rick Terry, DT, UNC
88- Dedric Ward, WR, Northern Iowa

1998
56- Dorian Boose, DE, Washington State
67- Scott Frost, FS, Nebraska
87- Kevin Williams, FS, Oklahoma State

1999
57- Randy Thomas, OG, Mississippi State
90- David Loverne, OG, San Jose State

Dallas Cowboys
2003
5- Terrence Newman, CB, Kansas State
38- Al Johnson, C, Wisconsin
69- Jason Witten, TE, Tennessee

2004
43- Julius Jones, RB, Notre Dame
52- Jacob Rogers, OT, USC
83- Stephen Peterman, OG, LSU

2005
11- DeMarcus Ware, OLB, Troy
20- Marcus Spears, DE, LSU
42- Kevin Burnett, OLB, Tennessee

2006
18- Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
53- Anthony Fasano, TE, Notre Dame
92- Jason Hatcher, DE, Grambling State

[Poet3334]

Well I broke down Parcell's first day draft history...trying to find a theme. One thing I noticed is Parcells seems to have a nitch drafting big-10 OL

New York Giants
1983
10- Terry Kinard, S, Clemson
37- Leonard Marshall, DT, LSU
63- Jamie Williams, TE, Nebraska
70- Karl Nelson, OT, Iowa State

1984
3- Carl Banks, OLB, Michigan State
27- William Roberts, OG, Ohio State
59- Jeff Hostetler, QB, West Virginia

1985
19- George Adams, RB, Kentucky
46- Stacy Robinson, WR, North Dakota State
58- Tyrone Davis, DB, Clemson
73- Brian Johnston, C, North Carolina

1986
19- Eric Dorsey, DE, Notre Dame
44- Mark Collins, CB, Cal State-Fullerton
46- Erik Howard, NT, Washington State
51- Pepper Johnson, MLB, Ohio State
53- Greg Lasker, DB, Arkansas
73- John Washington, DE, Oklahoma State

1987
28- Mark Ingram, WR, Michigan State
55- Adrian White, S, Florida
83- Stephen Baker, WR, Fresno State

1988
10- Eric Moore, OG, Indiana
36- John Elliott, OT, Michigan
62- Sheldon White, CB, Miami-Ohio

1989
18- Brian Williams, C, Minnesota
64- Bob Kratch, OG, Iowa
78- Greg Jackson, SS, LSU

1990
24- Rodney Hampton, RB, Georgia
51- Mike Fox, DE, West Virginia
79- Greg Mark, ILB, Miami

New England Patriots
1993
1- Drew Bledsoe, QB, Washington State
31- Chris Slade, DE, Virgina
51- Todd Rucci, OG, Penn State
56- Vincent Brisby, WR, Luisiana-Monroe

1994
4- Willie McGinest, OLB, USC
35- Kevin Lee, WR, Alabama
78- Ervin Collier, NT, Florida A&M
90- Joe Burch, C, Texas Southern

1995
23- Ty Law, CB, Michigan
57- Ted Johnson, ILB, Colorado
74- Curtis Martin, RB, Pittsburgh
88- Jimmy Hitchcock, CB, North Carolina

1996
7- Terry Glenn, WR, Ohio State
36- Lawyer Milloy, SS, Washington
86- Tedy Bruschi, ILB, Arizona

New York Jets
1997
8- James Farrior, ILB, Virgina
31- Rick Terry, DT, UNC
88- Dedric Ward, WR, Northern Iowa

1998
56- Dorian Boose, DE, Washington State
67- Scott Frost, FS, Nebraska
87- Kevin Williams, FS, Oklahoma State

1999
57- Randy Thomas, OG, Mississippi State
90- David Loverne, OG, San Jose State

Dallas Cowboys
2003
5- Terrence Newman, CB, Kansas State
38- Al Johnson, C, Wisconsin
69- Jason Witten, TE, Tennessee

2004
43- Julius Jones, RB, Notre Dame
52- Jacob Rogers, OT, USC
83- Stephen Peterman, OG, LSU

2005
11- DeMarcus Ware, OLB, Troy
20- Marcus Spears, DE, LSU
42- Kevin Burnett, OLB, Tennessee

2006
18- Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
53- Anthony Fasano, TE, Notre Dame
92- Jason Hatcher, DE, Grambling State

Wow Thule...... that's pretty good. Good research.

[bigbluedefense]

we would like Bill Parcells back please. Feel free to return him at any time before Sunday December 24. Thank you.









:(

[thule]

Well I broke down Parcell's first day draft history...trying to find a theme. One thing I noticed is Parcells seems to have a nitch drafting big-10 OL

New York Giants
1983
10- Terry Kinard, S, Clemson
37- Leonard Marshall, DT, LSU
63- Jamie Williams, TE, Nebraska
70- Karl Nelson, OT, Iowa State

1984
3- Carl Banks, OLB, Michigan State
27- William Roberts, OG, Ohio State
59- Jeff Hostetler, QB, West Virginia

1985
19- George Adams, RB, Kentucky
46- Stacy Robinson, WR, North Dakota State
58- Tyrone Davis, DB, Clemson
73- Brian Johnston, C, North Carolina

1986
19- Eric Dorsey, DE, Notre Dame
44- Mark Collins, CB, Cal State-Fullerton
46- Erik Howard, NT, Washington State
51- Pepper Johnson, MLB, Ohio State
53- Greg Lasker, DB, Arkansas
73- John Washington, DE, Oklahoma State

1987
28- Mark Ingram, WR, Michigan State
55- Adrian White, S, Florida
83- Stephen Baker, WR, Fresno State

1988
10- Eric Moore, OG, Indiana
36- John Elliott, OT, Michigan
62- Sheldon White, CB, Miami-Ohio

1989
18- Brian Williams, C, Minnesota
64- Bob Kratch, OG, Iowa
78- Greg Jackson, SS, LSU

1990
24- Rodney Hampton, RB, Georgia
51- Mike Fox, DE, West Virginia
79- Greg Mark, ILB, Miami

New England Patriots
1993
1- Drew Bledsoe, QB, Washington State
31- Chris Slade, DE, Virgina
51- Todd Rucci, OG, Penn State
56- Vincent Brisby, WR, Luisiana-Monroe

1994
4- Willie McGinest, OLB, USC
35- Kevin Lee, WR, Alabama
78- Ervin Collier, NT, Florida A&M
90- Joe Burch, C, Texas Southern

1995
23- Ty Law, CB, Michigan
57- Ted Johnson, ILB, Colorado
74- Curtis Martin, RB, Pittsburgh
88- Jimmy Hitchcock, CB, North Carolina

1996
7- Terry Glenn, WR, Ohio State
36- Lawyer Milloy, SS, Washington
86- Tedy Bruschi, ILB, Arizona

New York Jets
1997
8- James Farrior, ILB, Virgina
31- Rick Terry, DT, UNC
88- Dedric Ward, WR, Northern Iowa

1998
56- Dorian Boose, DE, Washington State
67- Scott Frost, FS, Nebraska
87- Kevin Williams, FS, Oklahoma State

1999
57- Randy Thomas, OG, Mississippi State
90- David Loverne, OG, San Jose State

Dallas Cowboys
2003
5- Terrence Newman, CB, Kansas State
38- Al Johnson, C, Wisconsin
69- Jason Witten, TE, Tennessee

2004
43- Julius Jones, RB, Notre Dame
52- Jacob Rogers, OT, USC
83- Stephen Peterman, OG, LSU

2005
11- DeMarcus Ware, OLB, Troy
20- Marcus Spears, DE, LSU
42- Kevin Burnett, OLB, Tennessee

2006
18- Bobby Carpenter, OLB, Ohio State
53- Anthony Fasano, TE, Notre Dame
92- Jason Hatcher, DE, Grambling State

Wow Thule...... that's pretty good. Good research.

I actually have it broke down further too. I'm debating whether to go into the second day or not.

But here are some interesting facts I found.

He's drafted 4 OLB inside the top 20 picks.
In the first day he has pretty much spread the picks out evenly.

QB- 2
RB- 4
WR- 7
TE- 2
OT- 3
OG- 7
C-3

DE- 7
DT- 3
OLB- 5
ILB- 4
CB- 7
S- 6

Nothing really sticks out except on position. OT. If you look at the breakdown...it is the only position that requires two starters that doesn't have a high number. If you look at the small numbers you see positions in which only one person starts....QB/RB/TE/C/DT...but OT is something that really surprised me. Interesting to see that and wonder if there is any substance behind it.

[dpl85]

From Parcells press conference:

-On TO he will be fined but not suspended, it will be announced later today by the league.

-On the FB flat problems, two different players making two different mental errors. I'm assuming the ILB's responsibility

-He's not going to change the RB rotation, JJ will continue to start and MB3 is the closer, that's Bill's word.

[dpl85]

It was just announced TO was fined 35,000 by the league per ESPN, NFL Network etc. It's a little more than I expected but I still would've like to have seen it be more substantial to really send a strong message.

[Burns336]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him.

So you're saying that Carp just happened to be in the right place so Vick could "run" into him? Vick sacked himself in other words right? Those type of sacks happen all of the time. That does not diminish the sack. Would you rather Carp not been there? Vick probably still would have been running. This is not being a homer, it's wanting someone on your team to step up and do their job. Frankly, you sound like a hater to me.

Im not a hater, i just think that for people who couldnt see the game, they should know that he wasnt some bad ass out there on the feild. yeah i want the sacks, and yeah i want carpenter to do good but im not ready to say hes becoming the 18th pick we drafted him at.

[Poet3334]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him.

So you're saying that Carp just happened to be in the right place so Vick could "run" into him? Vick sacked himself in other words right? Those type of sacks happen all of the time. That does not diminish the sack. Would you rather Carp not been there? Vick probably still would have been running. This is not being a homer, it's wanting someone on your team to step up and do their job. Frankly, you sound like a hater to me.

Im not a hater, i just think that for people who couldnt see the game, they should know that he wasnt some bad ass out there on the feild. yeah i want the sacks, and yeah i want carpenter to do good but im not ready to say hes becoming the 18th pick we drafted him at.

Understood. But you have to admit that he's got to start somewhere. Can we at least agree on that?

[DMWSackMachine]

While it may not be an indication of him turning in a LTesque performance, Carp's 1.5 sacks was by no means just a "right place, right time" type of deal. He was spying Vick in our nickel sets for most of the game. His first sack was a direct result of him doing this. His second one was a play in which he had beaten his man after being initially blocked, and him and DeMarcus converged at the same time. If either player had not been there, then the other would still have gotten the sack. Besides that, Bobby was in the backfield on several different plays, and showed a fair amount of ability rushing the passer. There is no reason to down-play what he did. He had an excellent game, and we might be seeing him finally breakout as a player, as he has been progressively better the last 3 or 4 weeks. Of course, he still has a ways to go to justify his draft position, but he is definitely making progress.

Also, I'm disappointed in the TO detractors that are downplaying his role in this game. Without him, we lose. Period. He was a true difference maker in this game, and his first TD was a catch that maybe 4 or 5 other guys could have made. Not only that, his second TD catch was a play that he simply ran right by DeAngelo "NFL's fastest man" Hall on a straight go-route. There was no double move, hesitation, or anything else. He just flat out ran his ass. I think that's what is meant by the term "game speed".

Obviously I'm a big fan, but I just want to say again that I love DeMarcus Ware. He was truly awesome in this game. You will never see a more athletic play then that Int he made. You simply won't, and it is another in a long line of things that he does that Merriman will never be able to do. Still, his failings as an all-around pass rusher are undeniable. He has got to learn how to do more than simply run around or bull-rush OTs. However, every other facet of his game has reached an All-Pro level for his position. He was covering Crumpler for much of the night, and was only beaten once - which happened to be a play in which he was in perfect position, and Vick just lasered the ball in the perfect spot with Alge making a nice catch despite Ware getting a hand on the ball. Not only that, but DMW's FF likely would have been the play of the game had not Ayodele just coughed the ball up for no reason. Reminiscent of the Kiwanuka play two weeks ago. I guess it really does even out over time. Oh, and just one other note, Ware got another sack early in the game that was spotted incorrectly, and thus wasn't credited as such. He stopped Vick 1 1/2 yards behind the line, but the refs spotted the ball back at the original LOS, thus negating the stat, but I digress.

Speaking of Crumpler, there was an obsolutely fantastic play that occurred in the 4th quarter that I feel compelled to point out. Deion was in the booth acting like he knows more than anyone else in the league (surprise surprise), and before a crucial 3rd down play he starts talking about them needing to get the ball to Crumpler more, and points out that he is being matched up fairly often with Terrence Newman and how they should exploit that as a huge mismatch in their (Falcon's) favor......lmao. Right on cue, Vick drops back and throws a dart to Crumpler on the seam - and gets the ball batted down by????? Terrence Newman. There is a bit of a dead silence, broken by Deion saying "Well, that's why he's one of the best corners in the league". I'm telling you, it was choice. Hopefully you guys can see it again on NFL Replay and enjoy it at home.

[dpl85]

I have NFL Network and I watched the entire game, Bobby Carpenter played well, not great but well. Now that doesn't excuse his lack of production earlier but you have to start somewhere and you got to walk before you can run. We should all be encouarged by his play in that game, hopefully he can build on that. Perhaps we should use Bobby some at ILB as he's gotta be better in coverage than James or Adeyole, especially at covering those damn FBs.

Michael Irvin gets hated on for being a homer and he definitely is obviously but Jaws is just as big of a homer for the Eagles as Playmaker is for the Boys. Jaws is acting like it's just a foregone conclusion that the Eagles are gonna come in our house and kick our butt. I know Jaws is a better analyst but he's also a big homer.

[Poet3334]

While it may not be an indication of him turning in a LTesque performance, Carp's 1.5 sacks was by no means just a "right place, right time" type of deal. He was spying Vick in our nickel sets for most of the game. His first sack was a direct result of him doing this. His second one was a play in which he had beaten his man after being initially blocked, and him and DeMarcus converged at the same time. If either player had not been there, then the other would still have gotten the sack. Besides that, Bobby was in the backfield on several different plays, and showed a fair amount of ability rushing the passer. There is no reason to down-play what he did. He had an excellent game, and we might be seeing him finally breakout as a player, as he has been progressively better the last 3 or 4 weeks. Of course, he still has a ways to go to justify his draft position, but he is definitely making progress.

Also, I'm disappointed in the TO detractors that are downplaying his role in this game. Without him, we lose. Period. He was a true difference maker in this game, and his first TD was a catch that maybe 4 or 5 other guys could have made. Not only that, his second TD catch was a play that he simply ran right by DeAngelo "NFL's fastest man" Hall on a straight go-route. There was no double move, hesitation, or anything else. He just flat out ran his ass. I think that's what is meant by the term "game speed".

Obviously I'm a big fan, but I just want to say again that I love DeMarcus Ware. He was truly awesome in this game. You will never see a more athletic play then that Int he made. You simply won't, and it is another in a long line of things that he does that Merriman will never be able to do. Still, his failings as an all-around pass rusher are undeniable. He has got to learn how to do more than simply run around or bull-rush OTs. However, every other facet of his game has reached an All-Pro level for his position. He was covering Crumpler for much of the night, and was only beaten once - which happened to be a play in which he was in perfect position, and Vick just lasered the ball in the perfect spot with Alge making a nice catch despite Ware getting a hand on the ball. Not only that, but DMW's FF likely would have been the play of the game had not Ayodele just coughed the ball up for no reason. Reminiscent of the Kiwanuka play two weeks ago. I guess it really does even out over time. Oh, and just one other note, Ware got another sack early in the game that was spotted incorrectly, and thus wasn't credited as such. He stopped Vick 1 1/2 yards behind the line, but the refs spotted the ball back at the original LOS, thus negating the stat, but I digress.

Speaking of Crumpler, there was an obsolutely fantastic play that occurred in the 4th quarter that I feel compelled to point out. Deion was in the booth acting like he knows more than anyone else in the league (surprise surprise), and before a crucial 3rd down play he starts talking about them needing to get the ball to Crumpler more, and points out that he is being matched up fairly often with Terrence Newman and how they should exploit that as a huge mismatch in their (Falcon's) favor......lmao. Right on cue, Vick drops back and throws a dart to Crumpler on the seam - and gets the ball batted down by????? Terrence Newman. There is a bit of a dead silence, broken by Deion saying "Well, that's why he's one of the best corners in the league". I'm telling you, it was choice. Hopefully you guys can see it again on NFL Replay and enjoy it at home.

Good stuff DMW. That play by Newman could have been the biggest in the game.

[slimx37]

Bill Parcells has said in the past that there are usually 4-5 guys who are elite status guys who come into the league ready to play, after that it is a bunch of guys who you will have to work on, i.e. coach up to get them ready to play, now we have been lucky the past few years with our picks, but even ware is in parcells mind a work in progress i think carp is coming along just fine, if a little slower than we would like. This is why draft experts say it takes three years to grade a draft, cuz it takes that long to coach some of these guys.

Carp is playing more and more which means he has shown improvement in practice and is earning parcells trust as a lb and as a passrusher, honestly in my opinion he would start full time if he was better against the run as he has shown some good moves for a rookie as a pass rusher and a good ability to cover. I fully expect him to start next year and to be more of an impact player these last two weeks and into the playoffs

On T.O. this to me is a the first time this year i have seriously been angry with him, spitting on anyone is an absolute classless act and reflects poorly on the cowboys, no matter what the circumstances it showed me that he is not someone i want on this team

I think philly will be a tough game for us this weekend were in and hopefully we don't lose focus and allow garcia to do what vick did this weekend cuz the offense cant score 31 every game, lol well maybe they can we average 27.6 i think, but defense wins championships

[ShutDwn]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tek2000/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif


I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.

[Number-94]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tek2000/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif


I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.

Still makes me :lol:

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.

That avy is too big. Make it smaller.

[Staubach12]

That avy is too big. Make it smaller.

You ruin everyone's fun.

[Staubach12]

1. Reggie Nelson, FS, Florida
2. Craig Davis, WR, LSU
3. Manuel Ramirez, OG, Texas Tech
4. Jonathan Wade, CB, Tennessee
5. Paul Soliai, NT, Utah
6. Isaiah Stanback, QB, Washington
7. Ryan Moore, WR, Miami (FL)

[bigbluedefense]

While it may not be an indication of him turning in a LTesque performance, Carp's 1.5 sacks was by no means just a "right place, right time" type of deal. He was spying Vick in our nickel sets for most of the game. His first sack was a direct result of him doing this. His second one was a play in which he had beaten his man after being initially blocked, and him and DeMarcus converged at the same time. If either player had not been there, then the other would still have gotten the sack. Besides that, Bobby was in the backfield on several different plays, and showed a fair amount of ability rushing the passer. There is no reason to down-play what he did. He had an excellent game, and we might be seeing him finally breakout as a player, as he has been progressively better the last 3 or 4 weeks. Of course, he still has a ways to go to justify his draft position, but he is definitely making progress.

Also, I'm disappointed in the TO detractors that are downplaying his role in this game. Without him, we lose. Period. He was a true difference maker in this game, and his first TD was a catch that maybe 4 or 5 other guys could have made. Not only that, his second TD catch was a play that he simply ran right by DeAngelo "NFL's fastest man" Hall on a straight go-route. There was no double move, hesitation, or anything else. He just flat out ran his ass. I think that's what is meant by the term "game speed".

Obviously I'm a big fan, but I just want to say again that I love DeMarcus Ware. He was truly awesome in this game. You will never see a more athletic play then that Int he made. You simply won't, and it is another in a long line of things that he does that Merriman will never be able to do. Still, his failings as an all-around pass rusher are undeniable. He has got to learn how to do more than simply run around or bull-rush OTs. However, every other facet of his game has reached an All-Pro level for his position. He was covering Crumpler for much of the night, and was only beaten once - which happened to be a play in which he was in perfect position, and Vick just lasered the ball in the perfect spot with Alge making a nice catch despite Ware getting a hand on the ball. Not only that, but DMW's FF likely would have been the play of the game had not Ayodele just coughed the ball up for no reason. Reminiscent of the Kiwanuka play two weeks ago. I guess it really does even out over time. Oh, and just one other note, Ware got another sack early in the game that was spotted incorrectly, and thus wasn't credited as such. He stopped Vick 1 1/2 yards behind the line, but the refs spotted the ball back at the original LOS, thus negating the stat, but I digress.

Speaking of Crumpler, there was an obsolutely fantastic play that occurred in the 4th quarter that I feel compelled to point out. Deion was in the booth acting like he knows more than anyone else in the league (surprise surprise), and before a crucial 3rd down play he starts talking about them needing to get the ball to Crumpler more, and points out that he is being matched up fairly often with Terrence Newman and how they should exploit that as a huge mismatch in their (Falcon's) favor......lmao. Right on cue, Vick drops back and throws a dart to Crumpler on the seam - and gets the ball batted down by????? Terrence Newman. There is a bit of a dead silence, broken by Deion saying "Well, that's why he's one of the best corners in the league". I'm telling you, it was choice. Hopefully you guys can see it again on NFL Replay and enjoy it at home.

I agree on Ware. He's an all pro in every facet of his game except pass rushing. Do you think if he doesn't improve his pass rushing technique that he will be better off at SAM? It kind of makes the Carp pick a waste though unless he moves inside.

[bigbluedefense]

1. Reggie Nelson, FS, Florida
2. Craig Davis, WR, LSU
3. Manuel Ramirez, OG, Texas Tech
4. Jonathan Wade, CB, Tennessee
5. Paul Soliai, NT, Utah
6. Isaiah Stanback, QB, Washington
7. Ryan Moore, WR, Miami (FL)

I really doubt Nelson falls to you guys. Love Ramirez as a selection, I think you gotta get Soliai as at least a backup to Fergy, because you lack legitimate depth at NT.

That avy is too big. Make it smaller.

You ruin everyone's fun.

I know, I'm just a big party pooper. :cry:

[Poet3334]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tek2000/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif


I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.

Still makes me :lol:

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.

Hall is an ass

[Burns336]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him.

So you're saying that Carp just happened to be in the right place so Vick could "run" into him? Vick sacked himself in other words right? Those type of sacks happen all of the time. That does not diminish the sack. Would you rather Carp not been there? Vick probably still would have been running. This is not being a homer, it's wanting someone on your team to step up and do their job. Frankly, you sound like a hater to me.

Im not a hater, i just think that for people who couldnt see the game, they should know that he wasnt some bad ass out there on the feild. yeah i want the sacks, and yeah i want carpenter to do good but im not ready to say hes becoming the 18th pick we drafted him at.

Understood. But you have to admit that he's got to start somewhere. Can we at least agree on that?

Yes i completely agree with you. I dont want people to get the wrong idea that im hating on him, i liked the pick at the time, and i still do. Even with ellis' progression he was getting up there in age and we needed a good prospect to put there. Now the only "old" guy on the D is fergy.

I guess i was pretty critical but its only because im trying to play devils advocate to the "annointing" if you will.

Maybe it was just because he was going against vick, but even on run plays carp looked slower than i thought he was. I thought he had DMW speed? maybe i was mistaken.

Either way im happy we have him on the field. The more he plays the more comfortable he will get and i hope that as he gets more comfortable he will show that the 18th pick was warrented.

I still havnt seen anyone pick up on what watkins did, was i the only one who was impressed with how much more it looked like he actually knew what he was doing? none of the big plays came on him.

I just hope we can get watkins to the point where even if he isnt an all pro, he will have the smarts to play centerfield and allow roy to get back up inside the box.. Im really pissed with how we've been using roy, he isnt even a play maker in the role we use him at, you hardly hear his name except for "roy is bad in coverage and you saw it again right there"

Looking ahead to next week. Go Giants! i see Terry glenn and witten being our playmakers against the eagles with all the focus back on owens -- romo cant force it to him this game.

Julius had better step up because the questions about barber starting are increasing through the media. I really think julius and barber have the ability to be the best 1 -2 tandem in the league if Julius would just stop running like a girl. Someone said that he is just looking for a place to fall and i fully agree with that -- it goes back to my theory that his prior injuries are in his head and i think hes contemplating the fact that if he gets injured, he wont get the starting job back. I wish i could have a conversation with him and say "look buddy, you gonna lose it if you get injured, but you also going to lose it if you keep playing like a chick. Give it your all on every play and dont worried about getting injured"

He always goes down after first contact where as barber never does.its not like he can break them as good as barber, but he stops moving his legs, lowers his head, and does a weak lunge forward on every attempt.

I also think we need to use julius in more screen passes, hes shown some explosivness with the ball in space. If we could just get him going it would add 1 more weapon to take to the post season.

Id like to hear from some of you about fasano. Hes getting playing time but it doesnt look like we actually send him on many passing routes? whats up with that?

Finally, I do see the eagles game being close. We have problems with backs like Tiki, Reggie, and the fullbacks out in space as we have seen lately. This is pretty much westbrooks forte'. If im the eagles, i stop running westbrook and go back to last season eagles with 40 - 50 passes, mostly dinking and dunking and then taking shots deep. What do you guys thinK?

[Burns336]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tek2000/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif


I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.

Still makes me :lol:

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.

Hall is an ass

I could care less, spitting will always be looked down upon but this has gotten way over blown because its T.O.

[Burns336]

While it may not be an indication of him turning in a LTesque performance, Carp's 1.5 sacks was by no means just a "right place, right time" type of deal. He was spying Vick in our nickel sets for most of the game. His first sack was a direct result of him doing this. His second one was a play in which he had beaten his man after being initially blocked, and him and DeMarcus converged at the same time. If either player had not been there, then the other would still have gotten the sack. Besides that, Bobby was in the backfield on several different plays, and showed a fair amount of ability rushing the passer. There is no reason to down-play what he did. He had an excellent game, and we might be seeing him finally breakout as a player, as he has been progressively better the last 3 or 4 weeks. Of course, he still has a ways to go to justify his draft position, but he is definitely making progress.

Also, I'm disappointed in the TO detractors that are downplaying his role in this game. Without him, we lose. Period. He was a true difference maker in this game, and his first TD was a catch that maybe 4 or 5 other guys could have made. Not only that, his second TD catch was a play that he simply ran right by DeAngelo "NFL's fastest man" Hall on a straight go-route. There was no double move, hesitation, or anything else. He just flat out ran his ass. I think that's what is meant by the term "game speed".

Obviously I'm a big fan, but I just want to say again that I love DeMarcus Ware. He was truly awesome in this game. You will never see a more athletic play then that Int he made. You simply won't, and it is another in a long line of things that he does that Merriman will never be able to do. Still, his failings as an all-around pass rusher are undeniable. He has got to learn how to do more than simply run around or bull-rush OTs. However, every other facet of his game has reached an All-Pro level for his position. He was covering Crumpler for much of the night, and was only beaten once - which happened to be a play in which he was in perfect position, and Vick just lasered the ball in the perfect spot with Alge making a nice catch despite Ware getting a hand on the ball. Not only that, but DMW's FF likely would have been the play of the game had not Ayodele just coughed the ball up for no reason. Reminiscent of the Kiwanuka play two weeks ago. I guess it really does even out over time. Oh, and just one other note, Ware got another sack early in the game that was spotted incorrectly, and thus wasn't credited as such. He stopped Vick 1 1/2 yards behind the line, but the refs spotted the ball back at the original LOS, thus negating the stat, but I digress.

Speaking of Crumpler, there was an obsolutely fantastic play that occurred in the 4th quarter that I feel compelled to point out. Deion was in the booth acting like he knows more than anyone else in the league (surprise surprise), and before a crucial 3rd down play he starts talking about them needing to get the ball to Crumpler more, and points out that he is being matched up fairly often with Terrence Newman and how they should exploit that as a huge mismatch in their (Falcon's) favor......lmao. Right on cue, Vick drops back and throws a dart to Crumpler on the seam - and gets the ball batted down by????? Terrence Newman. There is a bit of a dead silence, broken by Deion saying "Well, that's why he's one of the best corners in the league". I'm telling you, it was choice. Hopefully you guys can see it again on NFL Replay and enjoy it at home.

Just to add to what you said about ware... I think as far as he and merriman, DMW has picked up the containment and coverage to the extent that Merriman has picked up rushing the passer. That said, i do think merriman has the ability to be just as good in coverage as ware, hes got the athletic ability he just needs to put it together. I feel the same about ware as his pass rushing, now that he has exemplified to bill that he can do the things that are most important to bill, hopefully we start working on his pass rush more.

Either way im happy we have ware, i dont feel cheated or feel like we missed out by not grabbing merriman. they both have great skills in different areas and are both young enough to become the top 2 OLB's in the league over the next few years.

We shouldnt even have the discussion anymore, because the only reason for comparing them would be if we made the wrong choice.

I think everyone on the board is happy we have Ware. We have just as much potential, great coverage and containment, an average pass rush that is getting a heck of a lot better now that we are shifting him between the weak and strong side, and no steroids. I dont think merriman will make the mistake of taking a substance that can be traced ever again, but he is still using HGH and it has the potential to cause serious problems that will result in cutting his career short if he isnt careful.


EDIT: i too noticed that sack on vick that wasnt credited earlier in the game... Although i think it may not have been considered a sack because it was viewed as a designed run by vick instead of the spot of the ball. i could be wrong though.

On that note, if you look at newmans stats he is only credited with 1 for 12 yards, what about the pick of eli in the endzone for a touchback?

[Jdallas]

I haven't been keeping up with a discussion, but here's a note on Carpenter that may explain some stuff to some of you.

It's harder to move from a true 4-3 OLB to a 3-4 OLB than it is from a 4-3 DE. This is because defending the run is so much different.

As a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB you have contain responsibilities on most plays. This means you always have to have outside leverage on your man and let nobody outside of you. The next step is to collapse the inside hole through outside pressure and learning to understand tricks RBs use to draw you inside.

As a 4-3 OLB when a play is properly contained you are always attacking the play from the inside on the edge instead of the outside. This is the big difference between the two types of LBs.

It will probably take a full season of learning and practice for Carpenter to learn and get a feel for the proper way to defense the run. A lot of the things you have to do wrong first a couple times to really understand what you're supposed to do. In my mind it's the only thing he doesn't do well right now and he has the right body type to be able to do this in the future. He's a good pass rusher because of his nickel DE experience in college and is also athletic enough to defend the pass.

Whether or not anybody here likes it he won't be a complete player this year, but he will be an exceptional player in the future.

[thule]

I haven't been keeping up with a discussion, but here's a note on Carpenter that may explain some stuff to some of you.

It's harder to move from a true 4-3 OLB to a 3-4 OLB than it is from a 4-3 DE. This is because defending the run is so much different.

As a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 OLB you have contain responsibilities on most plays. This means you always have to have outside leverage on your man and let nobody outside of you. The next step is to collapse the inside hole through outside pressure and learning to understand tricks RBs use to draw you inside.

As a 4-3 OLB when a play is properly contained you are always attacking the play from the inside on the edge instead of the outside. This is the big difference between the two types of LBs.

It will probably take a full season of learning and practice for Carpenter to learn and get a feel for the proper way to defense the run. A lot of the things you have to do wrong first a couple times to really understand what you're supposed to do. In my mind it's the only thing he doesn't do well right now and he has the right body type to be able to do this in the future. He's a good pass rusher because of his nickel DE experience in college and is also athletic enough to defend the pass.

Whether or not anybody here likes it he won't be a complete player this year, but he will be an exceptional player in the future.

I agree with a lot of the things you said. I also think that Carps problem is a learning problem. Because he is very good at shedding blocks...he just seems to be late or take the inside angle...and give up containment. My question of concern is where is Carp 3 years from now. Is he inside or is he outside?

[Number-94]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tek2000/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif


I see someone already has this as an avatar, but this is awesome. Anyone who does this to hall is a friend of mine.

Still makes me :lol:

Still think I'm the only person who could care less the TO spit on Hall. Now Champ or another "top" CB I would care.

Hall is an ass

I could care less, spitting will always be looked down upon but this has gotten way over blown because its T.O.

To add to this, does anyone just laugh when ESPN tries to say TO is "lucky Hall didn't react?" What would Hall of done to TO? Come on now.

[LSUALUM99]

Here's my commentary on the spitting incident.

To me, it's 100% ridiculous that spitting is considered so heinous. I know that players throw punches at each other every day in practice or in games. Somehow that is acceptable.

The fact that violence is accpetable but spitting is not is a terrible commentary on society.

Actually the fact that you can see fights or murders on TV but a woman's boob throws everyone into a frenzy is also a terrible commentary on American society.

I'm so sick and tired of people saying things are 'disrespectful' and getting offended by them. If anyone says or does anything to you, YOU and only YOU decide if you are going to be bothered by it. If it bothers YOU it's YOUR problem. The insecurity or low self-esteem you have is YOUR own problem. It is called SELF ESTEEM, meaning it's how you feel about YOURSELF. No one else is to blame.

If someone starts calling me names or spits on me as I'm walking down the street, if I get hurt by that it's my problem. I have allowed them to affect me. However, if someone hits me with a baseball bat or clocks me on the head THEY ARE HURTING ME, I have no choice in the matter. Our society instills the wrong values in people and this 'victim' attitude is terrible.

Some pose the argument that 'what if this happened on the street'. My statement is that if you called someone a 'mother f*cker' you'd be in just as much of a confrontation. If you called someone's family out, you'd be in a confrontation. Whether the person should react that way or not is a source of debate, but the fact that they will react that way is not.

How is it that if you punched someone in society you'd go to jail, but if you spit on them nothing would happen. Yet, punching isn't considered as heinous in sports?

The athletes are a bunch of crybabies with low self esteem if calling names or spitting disrespects them that much.

P.S. I do not like TO, I'm not saying he's a good person or that I want him as a role model for anyone.

[bigbluedefense]

I understand your point Alum, but thats just how society is. Punching someone is viewed the way it is because for over 1000 years its been part of male/male controntations. But ever since the beginning of time spitting on someone is interpreted as the ultimate disrespect. When you punch someone, you punch them. We've all been punched before.

But spitting on someone is showing zero respect for them as a person. And that invokes more anger than a punch.

We have boxing as a sport. But we don't have the world championship of spitting. There is a difference in the actions. Maybe its society's fault, but thats just how it is.

[LSUALUM99]

I understand your point Alum, but thats just how society is. Punching someone is viewed the way it is because for over 1000 years its been part of male/male controntations. But ever since the beginning of time spitting on someone is interpreted as the ultimate disrespect. When you punch someone, you punch them. We've all been punched before.

But spitting on someone is showing zero respect for them as a person. And that invokes more anger than a punch.

We have boxing as a sport. But we don't have the world championship of spitting. There is a difference in the actions. Maybe its society's fault, but thats just how it is.

I am saying that if someone 'disrespecting' you causes more grief to your psyche than say a fight, then you have issues. Those issues aren't anyone elses fault but your own. Athletes should stop crying about being disrespected all the time.

[bigbluedefense]

I understand your point Alum, but thats just how society is. Punching someone is viewed the way it is because for over 1000 years its been part of male/male controntations. But ever since the beginning of time spitting on someone is interpreted as the ultimate disrespect. When you punch someone, you punch them. We've all been punched before.

But spitting on someone is showing zero respect for them as a person. And that invokes more anger than a punch.

We have boxing as a sport. But we don't have the world championship of spitting. There is a difference in the actions. Maybe its society's fault, but thats just how it is.

I am saying that if someone 'disrespecting' you causes more grief to your psyche than say a fight, then you have issues. Those issues aren't anyone elses fault but your own. Athletes should stop crying about being disrespected all the time.

So youre saying that if someone spit on you it wouldn't invoke anger?

I think both spitting and punching invoke fighting situations. To me, theyre both personal attacks. No one spits on another man without the acknowledgement of some sort of repurcussion, whether its a spit back at them or physical controntation.

I think youre taking it a little out of context as well. People get disrespected all the time. It happens at work, it happens at home, everywhere. And yes, it shouldn't warrant a fight, but spitting is a different kind of disrespect. I consider it a physical action. Its not a verbal exchange, or what not, when you spit on someone youre physicall attacking them. Yes, it doesn't hurt like a punch, but its still an attack that shows extreme disrespect for you as a person.

Its like slapping another man. Im sure you saw the Rick James skit. Charlie Murphy, in his own way said it best.

Charlie Murphy: I'm standing there I'm thinking, "This n___ really has lost his f____ mind." First of all, you don't slap a man. Ok. I mean, even when slapping was fashionable, ya know, they did it in Paris, some guy would come up, "I challenge you to a duel." They would have a gunfight after that, somebody had to go!


Spitting is the same, its a form of disrespect that you cannot equate with physical pain.

[dpl85]

Ok guys we're taking this way too far out of the realm of football discusion. It's definitely an interesting debate/arguement but really doesn't have anything to do with football. I agree with BBD and I can agree with LSU only in the sense that it probably does have something to do with self esteem and psychological issues but spitting on someone is inherently disrespectful. I don't think it's abnormal to feel disrespected by that even if it does reflect on your own self esteem and psycholgical state. It's really a man thing, you don't see women do stuff like this by and large and women may not be as offended or affected. As men we can accept a lot of stuff I think but when we really feel as though we have been disrespected or denegrated it angers us immensely, that's just the way it is. Furthermore I think we as men really look down on actions such as spitting that we view as the actions of a p u s s y. There are certain things that real men just don't do like sucker puching or spitting or hitting a woman etc. That's how I feel on the matter but obviously this has nothing to do with football so I think we should all just drop the discussion.

[LSUALUM99]

What I'm saying is that if someone spits on me, it's up to me to be offended or not. If I chose to be offended then that's my choice.

No one can offend me without my permission. They can however cause physical injury to me without my permission. Whether it's calling me names, insulting my family, spitting on me or some other non-physical attack, I have the power to chose to be offended or not.

That's the crux of the issue. Society has taken a 'vicitim' approach and now everyone justifies their actions because they were a victim of the offense. I personally find that argument about justification of retaliation based on this offense to be a weak and pathetic argument.

As for whether this is football related or not, it does directly relate to Terrell Owens and is based on recent actions so I feel it's completely relevent to the discussion.

[dpl85]

LSU, In a way I agree with you but in a way I don't. It's like when you're a little kid and your parents tell you sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you. Well that sounds all well and good in theory but in reality it takes an incredibly strong person mentally and emotionally to not be affected by words that are extremely hurtful, disrespectful, and basically an attempt to make someone feel like something less than human, like a worthless piece of blank. Yes it's true that we can choose how we feel and how we react and how we percieve things like that but in reality it takes an extremely strong person mentally and emotionally to not be at least a little bit affected. I think the bottom line is that this is a divisive issue because our opinions on it were shaped by our own life and experiences and I'm presuming our lives and childhood were pretty different. LSU, I respect your intelligence and opinion but I think we will never agree on this, but it's definitely an interesting debate although I don't think it has anything to do with football. I've probably taken this too far as it is really interesting.

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah let's just drop the subject. Personally, I don't know anyone who wouldn't let it get to them (the spitting that is) but Im also known to be a fiery guy, so Im biased in that regards.

[DMWSackMachine]

It has as much to do with football as half of the stuff we talk about in here. Sportsmanship and inter-personal relationships are a big part of the game, and we are currently dealing with a rather well-publicized breach of the rules that govern those things.

I want to give props to my boy LSU for making such good points, and I couldn't possibly agree more. This is a mark on our society more than anything, and shows the complete loss of perspective that has come about in our culture. For example, take the Bengals. A team that has had EIGHT DIFFERENT ARRESTS in one season. After the first 4 or 5, it was merely a nagging problem that some people were talking about as something that "should be looked at", but was largely escaping notice from most media members, and was actually dismissed as a non-issue by the head coach. Now imagine what would have happened if a team had 4 or 5 incidents in the same span of players spitting on the opposition, including a couple of repeat offenders. There would be heads rolling, a media firestorm, the guilty parties would be vilified and slandered non-stop and the head coach may have lost his job over it. What does that tell you about the way things are viewed in this league?

It's worse to show contempt for another human being and be a bad sport than it is to endanger other people's lives by driving while intoxicated, or to be illegally carrying a deadly weapon etc. There is no one yelling at the top of their lungs about what a thug Chris Henry is, or how they would never want Deltha O'Neal as a teammate. In fact, if they ever do talk about them they show sympathy and say things like "I just hope he gets help", and yet TO is being used as a sounding board for people to get up on their soap-boxes and high-horses and talk down about someone.

I don't condone what TO did, nor do I think it reflects well upon the type of person he is, but the magnitutude of his offense is not anywhere in the neighborhood of some other things that go completely unnoticed and untalked about. It's inconsistent, unfair, and ultimately reflects back upon all the talking heads that run off their mouths in such a self-righteous manner.

LSU, my hat goes off to you for your post.

[DMWSackMachine]

I agree on Ware. He's an all pro in every facet of his game except pass rushing. Do you think if he doesn't improve his pass rushing technique that he will be better off at SAM? It kind of makes the Carp pick a waste though unless he moves inside.

I have to admit that I've thought about this, but, imo, there is no way that you can make that move. The only way that you can justify it is if you have a better pass rusher ready to go on the weakside, and while there are guys available that might be pretty good, it's highly unlikely that you are going to find anyone better than DeMarcus. Remember, he might not be unstoppable, but he's still among the top 20 or so pass rushers in this league. That is pretty rarified air.

Plus, some people just develop at a slower pace. DeMarcus could still become a 15 sack monster in a couple years with some work on his moves and a little more freedom to work with inside the scheme. Remember, Strahan was a nobody at this time in his career. Osi was still figuring things out, Bruce Smith was being termed an "under-achiever", etc etc. So there is plenty of time for him to hone his pressure skills, and I remain hopeful that that will happen in time. If not, he will still be among the very best front seven players in the game. He is that good, even without the big sack numbers.

[Jughead10]

The difference is abuse of alcohol is a disease that comes out later in life. Most often after you turn 21. You do help those guys get help and anyway I think there is plenty of Bengal bashing going on all over.

However not spitting on someone is something you learn at about 3 years old. I guess it is different when TO is on your own team. I wonder what everyone's opinion of Sean Taylor was last year. To me I just find it absolutely inexcusable to spit on someone. More so than driving drunk. Both are inexusable but I could see where one would falter concerning drinking. I can't with spitting on someone else.

[bigbluedefense]

It has as much to do with football as half of the stuff we talk about in here. Sportsmanship and inter-personal relationships are a big part of the game, and we are currently dealing with a rather well-publicized breach of the rules that govern those things.

I want to give props to my boy LSU for making such good points, and I couldn't possibly agree more. This is a mark on our society more than anything, and shows the complete loss of perspective that has come about in our culture. For example, take the Bengals. A team that has had EIGHT DIFFERENT ARRESTS in one season. After the first 4 or 5, it was merely a nagging problem that some people were talking about as something that "should be looked at", but was largely escaping notice from most media members, and was actually dismissed as a non-issue by the head coach. Now imagine what would have happened if a team had 4 or 5 incidents in the same span of players spitting on the opposition, including a couple of repeat offenders. There would be heads rolling, a media firestorm, the guilty parties would be vilified and slandered non-stop and the head coach may have lost his job over it. What does that tell you about the way things are viewed in this league?

It's worse to show contempt for another human being and be a bad sport than it is to endanger other people's lives by driving while intoxicated, or to be illegally carrying a deadly weapon etc. There is no one yelling at the top of their lungs about what a thug Chris Henry is, or how they would never want Deltha O'Neal as a teammate. In fact, if they ever do talk about them they show sympathy and say things like "I just hope he gets help", and yet TO is being used as a sounding board for people to get up on their soap-boxes and high-horses and talk down about someone.

I don't condone what TO did, nor do I think it reflects well upon the type of person he is, but the magnitutude of his offense is not anywhere in the neighborhood of some other things that go completely unnoticed and untalked about. It's inconsistent, unfair, and ultimately reflects back upon all the talking heads that run off their mouths in such a self-righteous manner.

LSU, my hat goes off to you for your post.

Come on now, be honest with yourself...we both know that if TO wasn't a Cowboy you wouldn't have the same stance on this situation.

In fact, Im pretty sure you weren't exactly as compassionate about the subject matter as you are now when Taylor did it last year.

I ask all Dallas fans here to ask yourself this. Did you rip on Sean Taylor last year for doing it? Because if you did, you have no right to defend TO for doing it this year, or make it out to be any less significant of an action. They were both wrong and both deserved all the backlash they got for their actions.

Im not saying it because he's a Cowboy either. Its just the truth. If one of my guys did that Id be flipping a brick on the Giants team discussion. I just don't find it appropriate in any way no matter how you slice it. And to nonchalently brush it off like it was nothing, like he did is absolutely ridiculous. And then to appeal the fine and say he mightve just accidently did it after admitting to do it on purpose on air...words can't describe how ridiculous that was.

I know he's on the Cowboys, and because of that most here are a little more supportive of him. But lets face it, TO is what he is. Lets not play the corporate line and ignore all the negative elements he brings to the table. He is what he is.

[bigbluedefense]

I agree on Ware. He's an all pro in every facet of his game except pass rushing. Do you think if he doesn't improve his pass rushing technique that he will be better off at SAM? It kind of makes the Carp pick a waste though unless he moves inside.

I have to admit that I've thought about this, but, imo, there is no way that you can make that move. The only way that you can justify it is if you have a better pass rusher ready to go on the weakside, and while there are guys available that might be pretty good, it's highly unlikely that you are going to find anyone better than DeMarcus. Remember, he might not be unstoppable, but he's still among the top 20 or so pass rushers in this league. That is pretty rarified air.

Plus, some people just develop at a slower pace. DeMarcus could still become a 15 sack monster in a couple years with some work on his moves and a little more freedom to work with inside the scheme. Remember, Strahan was a nobody at this time in his career. Osi was still figuring things out, Bruce Smith was being termed an "under-achiever", etc etc. So there is plenty of time for him to hone his pressure skills, and I remain hopeful that that will happen in time. If not, he will still be among the very best front seven players in the game. He is that good, even without the big sack numbers.

I agree. Great point.

[dpl85]

The thing that really has me POed is that we're even having to talk about this BS and that the media is going to talk about it all week and that there's even a small chance that it might become a distraction to our players and distract their attention from the task at hand. We should be talking about our biggest game of the year against Philly and arguabely our biggest game in 8 years since it's been that long since we last won the division and had a home playoff game, and what we have to do to beat them and win the division for the first time since 98.

[Jughead10]

The thing that really has me POed is that we're even having to talk about this BS and that the media is going to talk about it all week and that there's even a small chance that it might become a distraction to our players and distract their attention from the task at hand. We should be talking about our biggest game of the year against Philly and arguabely our biggest game in 8 years since it's been that long since we last won the division and had a home playoff game, and what we have to do to beat them and win the division for the first time since 98.

Well you can thank TO for that. The media will probably blow this out of proportion a little bit, but this is still a very big story. An all pro WR with a history of incidents spitting in the face of another big star and then basically admitting it.

[Number-94]

Newman better make this PB

[Number-94]

Snubbed...again.

Least Ware made it.

[dpl85]

If Terence Newman doesn't make the pro bowl as a starter or reserve I will just snap. :x There's no doubt in my mind that he's better than Hall and Barber, Newman doesn't get INTs cuz teams are afraid to throw at him, what's so hard to understand about that?

I love D-Ware and Roy but Newman deserves it more than them. I would say he's our most deserving player by far.

[Number-94]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

[sweetness34]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

[leroyisgod]

Snubbed...again.

Least Ware made it.

Newman not making it is a complete joke. It just comes to show you that if you're not getting int's, you won't get in.

[LSUALUM99]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

[Staubach12]

I'm calling for a boycott of the pro bowl.

[sweetness34]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

Mike Vick, and yes Grossman deserved it over Romo IMO. Romo's played what 6 damn games and he's made the Pro Bowl.

Like it or not, Grossman was more deserving this season. But Vick was more deserving over both.

[Modano]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

Mike Vick, and yes Grossman deserved it over Romo IMO. Romo's played what 6 damn games and he's made the Pro Bowl.

Like it or not, Grossman was more deserving this season. But Vick was more deserving over both.

Actually Romo played 8 games and a half.. He played only one bad game.. You forgot Carolina and Indy's games when you spoke about Romo in the Pro Bowl thread..

[LSUALUM99]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

Mike Vick, and yes Grossman deserved it over Romo IMO. Romo's played what 6 damn games and he's made the Pro Bowl.

Like it or not, Grossman was more deserving this season. But Vick was more deserving over both.

Grossman was talked about as 1) being deserving of being benched and 2) his team winning IN SPITE of him.

There is no way to say Grossman was deserving of a pro-bowl ballot. It's impossible to have the coach fending off questions about whether he's making a QB change for 4 weeks and then say that the QB who was playing so poorly was deserving of the pro-bowl.

Mike Vick you could make an argument for. I personally don't like his style of play at all, but you can't argue that he is the primary reason that ATL is a competitive team.

The fact that Romo is 6-2 as a starter probably tipped the scales in his favor over Vick who is only 7-7 as a starter. Since you can't use statistics to measure Vick as a QB, the winning percentage would need to be higher to justify it.

[Pokeys]

Why do you guys care so much about the pro bowl lol...

[dpl85]

I would just like to say LSU is a genius.

I can't speak for everyone but I care about the pro bowl because candidacy for the hall of fame is often judged by the number of pro bowls a player has and I want all of our really good/great players to get in the hall, i.e Michael Irvin.

[DMWSackMachine]

It has as much to do with football as half of the stuff we talk about in here. Sportsmanship and inter-personal relationships are a big part of the game, and we are currently dealing with a rather well-publicized breach of the rules that govern those things.

I want to give props to my boy LSU for making such good points, and I couldn't possibly agree more. This is a mark on our society more than anything, and shows the complete loss of perspective that has come about in our culture. For example, take the Bengals. A team that has had EIGHT DIFFERENT ARRESTS in one season. After the first 4 or 5, it was merely a nagging problem that some people were talking about as something that "should be looked at", but was largely escaping notice from most media members, and was actually dismissed as a non-issue by the head coach. Now imagine what would have happened if a team had 4 or 5 incidents in the same span of players spitting on the opposition, including a couple of repeat offenders. There would be heads rolling, a media firestorm, the guilty parties would be vilified and slandered non-stop and the head coach may have lost his job over it. What does that tell you about the way things are viewed in this league?

It's worse to show contempt for another human being and be a bad sport than it is to endanger other people's lives by driving while intoxicated, or to be illegally carrying a deadly weapon etc. There is no one yelling at the top of their lungs about what a thug Chris Henry is, or how they would never want Deltha O'Neal as a teammate. In fact, if they ever do talk about them they show sympathy and say things like "I just hope he gets help", and yet TO is being used as a sounding board for people to get up on their soap-boxes and high-horses and talk down about someone.

I don't condone what TO did, nor do I think it reflects well upon the type of person he is, but the magnitutude of his offense is not anywhere in the neighborhood of some other things that go completely unnoticed and untalked about. It's inconsistent, unfair, and ultimately reflects back upon all the talking heads that run off their mouths in such a self-righteous manner.

LSU, my hat goes off to you for your post.

Come on now, be honest with yourself...we both know that if TO wasn't a Cowboy you wouldn't have the same stance on this situation.

In fact, Im pretty sure you weren't exactly as compassionate about the subject matter as you are now when Taylor did it last year.

I ask all Dallas fans here to ask yourself this. Did you rip on Sean Taylor last year for doing it? Because if you did, you have no right to defend TO for doing it this year, or make it out to be any less significant of an action. They were both wrong and both deserved all the backlash they got for their actions.

Im not saying it because he's a Cowboy either. Its just the truth. If one of my guys did that Id be flipping a brick on the Giants team discussion. I just don't find it appropriate in any way no matter how you slice it. And to nonchalently brush it off like it was nothing, like he did is absolutely ridiculous. And then to appeal the fine and say he mightve just accidently did it after admitting to do it on purpose on air...words can't describe how ridiculous that was.

I know he's on the Cowboys, and because of that most here are a little more supportive of him. But lets face it, TO is what he is. Lets not play the corporate line and ignore all the negative elements he brings to the table. He is what he is.

Dude, how on earth did you come away with that impression from my post? I will never defend TO for doing some of the stupid sh** he does. He is what he is, and that is that. It was a classless thing to do, a childish and immature act. That's all. I don't really like the guy. I think he needed an older brother/father figure when he was young to teach him a sense of humility and accountablility, but those are small, paltry things compared to serious criminals and thugbeats the likes of which are roaming all over NFL squads.

The problem that I have is the fact that he was fined twice as much as the last offender who was caught on camera and thrown out of a game that he disrupted with his actions, and that everyone is talking like he robbed a little old lady and then rubbed it in people's faces.

However, you are right about one thing: I wouldn't be saying this if I wasn't a Cowboy fan. That is the truth. You know why? Because I wouldn't know the particulars. I woudln't see the truth behind the potrait that has been painted by the national media. Before he came, all I saw was the snippits of a press conference here and there, or a quote on SC. Now I see all the things that the national media doesn't want people to see, and I have decided that he is not what he is made out to be. If you would look into it, you would find the same thing out.

[Burns336]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

Mike Vick, and yes Grossman deserved it over Romo IMO. Romo's played what 6 damn games and he's made the Pro Bowl.

Like it or not, Grossman was more deserving this season. But Vick was more deserving over both.


You just lost all credability on this board and have pinned yourself as a complete homer. Rex 1.3 Grossman? youve got to be kidding me. and dont hit me with the Dropped passes from atlanta recievers because T.O. has dropped 15 and Romo still owns them both.

We'll just wait for the end of next season when he makes it again and see what everyones new excuse is.

[DMWSackMachine]

Btw, if anyone thinks there is any way that TO doesn't have his best game of the season this weekend, they are crazy. He is playing his former team after being embarrassed the first game against them, and it is going to be his first game after seeing that he got snubbed by the Pro Bowl voters. I'm seeing an all-time type game. It's gonna be huge.

[dwareroy]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

Mike Vick, and yes Grossman deserved it over Romo IMO. Romo's played what 6 damn games and he's made the Pro Bowl.

Like it or not, Grossman was more deserving this season. But Vick was more deserving over both.

Romo has played in 1 less game than Shawne Merriman. How the hell did Merriman make it? Same reason buddy.

[Poet3334]

We have two starters. A punter and a LB. What a joke.

Romo made the Pro Bowl? :roll:

Now that's a joke IMO.

Newman did get snubbed though.

I think it's more of a question about the OTHER QB's in the NFC.

Who should make it over Romo?

Brees, sure, Bulger, sure. Eli? Grossman? No other QB in the NFC is having a good year. That has as much to do with Romo getting in than anything.

Mike Vick, and yes Grossman deserved it over Romo IMO. Romo's played what 6 damn games and he's made the Pro Bowl.

Like it or not, Grossman was more deserving this season. But Vick was more deserving over both.

Wow. Grossman? Now that's funny.

[Modano]

If we trade Julius Jones who do you think we'll look for in the draft? Someone like Ray Rice?

[Paul]

TO snubbed for apparent reasons. Newman snubbed because he's not flashy, he just goes out there and shuts people down and doesn't say anything, so people don't know him. **** Deangelo Hall

[thule]

More interesting Parcells Draft History
This is a breakdown of Parcells drafts from the first day to the second day in percentage.

I broke this down in two catagories. His complete draft history...and his draft history since 1993 when the draft rounds were cut down.

Complete Draft History...In Percentage (in ratio of day1:day2)
QB- 3:3
RB- 6:10
WR- 11:10
TE- 5:10
OT- 5:8
OG- 11:8
C- 6:3
DE- 11:7
DT- 6:9
LB- ..:9
OLB- 8:1
ILB- 8:2
DB- 3:8
CB- 9:5
S- 8:4
K- 0:2
P- 0:1

Post 1993 Draft History...In Percentage (in ratio of day1:day2)
QB- 3:3
RB- 6:9
WR- 10:9
TE- 6:10
OT- 3:7
OG- 11:9
C- 6:10
DE- 11:6
DT- 6:7
LB- ..:6
OLB- 11:1
ILB- 9:3
DB- ..:3
CB- 9:7
S- ..:3
SS- 3:1
FS- 6:3
K- 0:1
P- 0:1

[thule]

A Chart
Day 1 = Blue
Day 2 = Purple

http://gra.midco.net/airplaneparts/post1993.png

[Jughead10]

Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.

[thule]

Using the chart I think we can get a slight glimps at might come.

I think its safe to say this chart doens't have much means at QB/DE/OLB/ILB/SS as those positions seem to be locks next year.

If for some reason JJ is not with us this year...I don't think we address it early...probabally won't address it with a scat back...but a player similar that is fairly explosive. Probabally someone with good hands if MB3 is the starter. If I had to pick a guy I would think parcells goes with someone like Norwood was last year. Small explosive and stronger than you think. A guy from this years class that I could see is Lorenzo Booker...guy who split the load...good hands and explosive. He also has some upside...I could definately see this.

Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.

I was mildly surprised at the number of OG taken in the first day by parcells...so I won't be surprised to see us address that early even if we do get someone in FA.

It may appear on the chart that CB would be a first day task. But the DB catagory kinda scews that. Realistically its a toss up. I think FS is definately more of a first day then a second day.

[thule]

Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.

I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.

[Jughead10]

Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.


The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.

[Jughead10]

Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.

I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.

LT, Banks, Pepper Johnson were all day one picks.

[thule]

[quote=Jughead10]Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.

I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.

LT, Banks, Pepper Johnson were all day one picks.[/quote

I know this...which is why there is no day one LBs in the chart...only second day guys weren't drafted at a certain LB position.

[thule]

Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.


The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.

Well that chart is post 1993. Since the charts would be slightly skewed with 12 round to choose players from.

Since 1993 he has drafted only one OT's on the first day.

Jacob Rogers in the second round #52 overall.

[thule]

Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.


The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.

Parcells has never drafted a OT in the first round.

In 1983 his first year as the Giants HC he drafted Karl Nelson in the third round #70 overall.

In 1988 he drafted John Elliot in the 3rd round #36 overall.

His last first day OT was Jacob Rogers in the 2nd round #52 overall.

[Jughead10]

Once again I find the OT position farther warrant that OT is addressed later in the parcells era.


The difference is he actually drafted OTs in the first round when he was winning Super Bowls.

Parcells has never drafted a OT in the first round.

In 1983 his first year as the Giants HC he drafted Karl Nelson in the third round #70 overall.

In 1988 he drafted John Elliot in the 3rd round #36 overall.

His last first day OT was Jacob Rogers in the 2nd round #52 overall.

Thats correct. I meant first day not round. I actually know Karl Nelson too. He's a good guy.

[thule]

Well that chart obviously shows Parcells covet LBs which was obvious. However what shocked me is the amount of guards taken on day 1 over the amount of offensive tackles. That was interesting.

I agree with both statements. One thing to put into prospective is the amount of LBs taken on the second day. Since they were second day they were more of a project...thus being able to play inside or outside. I wasn't familiar with a lot of the names...and they were only drafted as LBs...so realistically its not as big as of a discrepency as it appears....but 1st day still outweighs 2nd day.

LT, Banks, Pepper Johnson were all day one picks.

Here is a list of the draft picks where no ILB/OLB position was specified...please fill me in if you have any input...even tho IDK if I"ll change it since they weren't drafted to play a certain position.

Darrell Patterson
Andy Headen
Robbie Jones
Lawrence Green
Gregg Dubroc
Jerry Kimmel
Chuck Faucette
Jerome Rinehart
Eric Smith
Tim Scharf
Marc Megna
J.J. Syvrud

[Jughead10]

Off the top of my head Andy Headen played primarily outside linebacker. I think he might have been a true DE in college.

[thule]

Out of the last 21 OL drafted by parcells. (every one 1993-2006).

Only two have been from the west coast.
David Loverne, San Jose State
Jacob Rogers, USC

IDK if you would consider Weber state west coast...I believe its utah. No matter how you look at it thats quite the ratio.

The others are from central to east.

Penn State
Texas Southern
Navy
Syracuse
Colorado
Texas
Oklahoma
East Carolina
Cincinnati
Cirginia
Brigham Young
Mississippi State
Illinois
Kansas STate
Colorado
LSU
Pittsburgh
Texas Tech

[thule]

Another interesting note...since 1993 parcells has invested a total of 8-10% of his picks into the CB position. Since he has been in dallas he has invested a wapping 18%. Not only this but he has invested 8% more into this secondary then he has all together in the past 13 years. I bet if I pull the figures from 1993-1999 the stats would be even more impressive. The positions we seemed to have not go after are k/p/qb...all of which parcells seems to be able to find without the draft. The one position that we haven't addressed as much as he has in the past is the NT position. This I think should be something interesting to find. Not only has he not invested as much in the NT position but he also has 5% less of his draft picks in the LB corp...which seems strange being that we seem to go LB alot.

[bigbluedefense]

It has as much to do with football as half of the stuff we talk about in here. Sportsmanship and inter-personal relationships are a big part of the game, and we are currently dealing with a rather well-publicized breach of the rules that govern those things.

I want to give props to my boy LSU for making such good points, and I couldn't possibly agree more. This is a mark on our society more than anything, and shows the complete loss of perspective that has come about in our culture. For example, take the Bengals. A team that has had EIGHT DIFFERENT ARRESTS in one season. After the first 4 or 5, it was merely a nagging problem that some people were talking about as something that "should be looked at", but was largely escaping notice from most media members, and was actually dismissed as a non-issue by the head coach. Now imagine what would have happened if a team had 4 or 5 incidents in the same span of players spitting on the opposition, including a couple of repeat offenders. There would be heads rolling, a media firestorm, the guilty parties would be vilified and slandered non-stop and the head coach may have lost his job over it. What does that tell you about the way things are viewed in this league?

It's worse to show contempt for another human being and be a bad sport than it is to endanger other people's lives by driving while intoxicated, or to be illegally carrying a deadly weapon etc. There is no one yelling at the top of their lungs about what a thug Chris Henry is, or how they would never want Deltha O'Neal as a teammate. In fact, if they ever do talk about them they show sympathy and say things like "I just hope he gets help", and yet TO is being used as a sounding board for people to get up on their soap-boxes and high-horses and talk down about someone.

I don't condone what TO did, nor do I think it reflects well upon the type of person he is, but the magnitutude of his offense is not anywhere in the neighborhood of some other things that go completely unnoticed and untalked about. It's inconsistent, unfair, and ultimately reflects back upon all the talking heads that run off their mouths in such a self-righteous manner.

LSU, my hat goes off to you for your post.

Come on now, be honest with yourself...we both know that if TO wasn't a Cowboy you wouldn't have the same stance on this situation.

In fact, Im pretty sure you weren't exactly as compassionate about the subject matter as you are now when Taylor did it last year.

I ask all Dallas fans here to ask yourself this. Did you rip on Sean Taylor last year for doing it? Because if you did, you have no right to defend TO for doing it this year, or make it out to be any less significant of an action. They were both wrong and both deserved all the backlash they got for their actions.

Im not saying it because he's a Cowboy either. Its just the truth. If one of my guys did that Id be flipping a brick on the Giants team discussion. I just don't find it appropriate in any way no matter how you slice it. And to nonchalently brush it off like it was nothing, like he did is absolutely ridiculous. And then to appeal the fine and say he mightve just accidently did it after admitting to do it on purpose on air...words can't describe how ridiculous that was.

I know he's on the Cowboys, and because of that most here are a little more supportive of him. But lets face it, TO is what he is. Lets not play the corporate line and ignore all the negative elements he brings to the table. He is what he is.

Dude, how on earth did you come away with that impression from my post? I will never defend TO for doing some of the stupid sh** he does. He is what he is, and that is that. It was a classless thing to do, a childish and immature act. That's all. I don't really like the guy. I think he needed an older brother/father figure when he was young to teach him a sense of humility and accountablility, but those are small, paltry things compared to serious criminals and thugbeats the likes of which are roaming all over NFL squads.

The problem that I have is the fact that he was fined twice as much as the last offender who was caught on camera and thrown out of a game that he disrupted with his actions, and that everyone is talking like he robbed a little old lady and then rubbed it in people's faces.

However, you are right about one thing: I wouldn't be saying this if I wasn't a Cowboy fan. That is the truth. You know why? Because I wouldn't know the particulars. I woudln't see the truth behind the potrait that has been painted by the national media. Before he came, all I saw was the snippits of a press conference here and there, or a quote on SC. Now I see all the things that the national media doesn't want people to see, and I have decided that he is not what he is made out to be. If you would look into it, you would find the same thing out.

Ok, I completely understand that point. You shouldve said it the first time.

Theres no doubt in my mind that TO is unfairly criticized on many occasions, but hes not exactly a role model either, so both your defense of him and people's hatred of him are both justified in my opinion.

And for the record, I think Sean Taylor's spitting incident received just as much media scrutinity as TO's did, so I don't think TO was being treated unfairly here. In fact, if I remember correctly, ST got more attention. (couldve been because it was a playoff game, but regardless, he got more). I think TO should stop crying about the unfair treatment and try to stop purposely putting extra attention on himself. As a Dallas fan, Im sure youre sick of his attention wanting antics that he's pulled this season, from the Lance Armstrong jumpsuit, to the sleeping in meetings and laughing it off like BP's words mean nothing to him, to spitting, to TD celebrations etc.

But anyway, it doesn't really matter, he is what he is. I have a feeling though that this offseason, when the spotlight isn't on TO anymore, he'll reveal his "snitch" and open a can of worms again. He'll be happy about the attention he's getting, but who knows what it will do to the team. Thats something to look out for.

In regards to the PB, I think the PB has become an absolute joke quite honestly.

Terrance Newman not getting in is an absolute crime. Antonio Pierce getting snubbed is a crime too. I personally feel that Darren Sharper should of made it over Roy Williams and Vick over Romo as well. I just don't like the process, its more of a who's who in the NFL than an All star game based on performance.

[leroyisgod]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

[bigbluedefense]

Wow, thats a great chart on BP, thanks bro, I like that.

I think if I were a GM, id dedicate the day 1 picks on offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, and safties, TE and qb.

I wouldn't spend a day 1 pick on RB, WR, FB, CB, loosely speaking of course, theres always exceptions.

I think those positions are overrated, and can be had in later rounds. RB has so much talent, theres always a RB that can fill the void in later rounds if you have a great line in front of him. WR is the most overrated position in football...pass protection is more important that WRs, and CB are too dependent on front 7 pressure to justify a day 1 pick to me, unless its a sleeper prospect.

[bigbluedefense]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.

[Jughead10]

The problem that I have is the fact that he was fined twice as much as the last offender who was caught on camera and thrown out of a game that he disrupted with his actions, and that everyone is talking like he robbed a little old lady and then rubbed it in people's faces.

As far as the fine goes. Different commisioner. Goddell has came accross like he is going to be more of a disciplinarian similar to that of David Stern. Also did the refs see it happen on the field. The fact that he got away with on the field and wasn't thrown out of the game could be another reason was the fine was more than Taylor's.

[thule]

Wow, thats a great chart on BP, thanks bro, I like that.

I think if I were a GM, id dedicate the day 1 picks on offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, and safties, TE and qb.

I wouldn't spend a day 1 pick on RB, WR, FB, CB, loosely speaking of course, theres always exceptions.

I think those positions are overrated, and can be had in later rounds. RB has so much talent, theres always a RB that can fill the void in later rounds if you have a great line in front of him. WR is the most overrated position in football...pass protection is more important that WRs, and CB are too dependent on front 7 pressure to justify a day 1 pick to me, unless its a sleeper prospect.

Thats what no sleep and crazy draft thoughts will do to me. If it was a code I would crack it. =O

Personally IDK exactly how I would draft. But I agree with some of what you said. Sometimes I want to go talent level sometimes I want to go readiness. For example

Personally I felt the vikes made the wrong decision by taking Troy over Mike. Mike gave them a big target and a redzone threat...something they didn't have. Now i'm sure they didn't know that Dante would be gone the next year but regaurdless they had to replace the redzone presence that Randy had. For as many deep routes as Randy Moss had...he also had great out routes and quick slants to get first downs. His jump balls inside the 5 were really something that went under the radar. Kelly Campbell was enough of a deep threat to keep defenses honest. But there was a breakdown by the front office. They brought in Williamson...a guy who had great success running the go route...and double move. But he didn't have the other asspects of the game that Randy did. So I believe this falls into the scouting catagory.

My point is....almost anyone who makes it to the NFL has the talent to be a good player. Coaching/Motivation is what it takes. So you can take a guy like Levi Brown...who is argueably the top mauler in this draft, or you can take a guy like Tony Ugoh later in the draft. If you look at the difference there really isn't much. But may be able to start...but both could use a season of strength training and playbook learning...and refining their technique. This is where I believe Parcells is a genious. The OT's that come out in drafts really aren't that different. So if you have a guy with all the intagibles sitting there on the second day...ala McQuiston you have just as much of a chance of him turning out as you do with a guy like Andrew Whitworth. I mean really...Whitworth might have been more NFL ready then McQuiston but is he really NFL ready? Being more NFL ready and NFL ready are two completely different things. However if both sat on the bench for one year....with the same training and coaching and drive...I think you would agree that McQuiston would hold the greater value since you aren't as highly invested.

[bigbluedefense]

Yeah BP is a great drafter.

Thats what makes him so great of a coach. You couple great drafting with great motivational techniques, getting the most out of your players, youre gonna have a good team.

Forget the Xs and Os, forget the the philosophy. What makes BP in my opinion the best is his ability to get the most out of what he has, moreso than any other HC in the league. Holmgren gets honorable mention in this regards, he's incredible too. Id say Bellichick is 3rd on the list, but its hard to say when you have Brady and an easy conference ever year.

[Poet3334]

Wow, Thule. Excellent read. Thanks for bringing the knowledge. You better get some sleep now :)

[dpl85]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

[thule]

Wow, Thule. Excellent read. Thanks for bringing the knowledge. You better get some sleep now :)

No time for sleep :shock:

BTW anyone have any questions about any parcells draft or parcells related draft info...I have all of it input in my spreadsheets so just let me know what you wanna see and i'll chart it out.

[thule]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

I don't think this is too far fetched. He spends almost all his time at the ranch. I think he said he was there for a good 3 months straight during tc.

[bigbluedefense]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

I don't think this is too far fetched. He spends almost all his time at the ranch. I think he said he was there for a good 3 months straight during tc.

there was a ny times article posted here about Bill Parcells that said he lives in a motel.

[dpl85]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

I don't think this is too far fetched. He spends almost all his time at the ranch. I think he said he was there for a good 3 months straight during tc.
Yeah I don't doubt his sick work ethic but people that make that much money don't live in motels, they just don't, especially not in or around Dallas as most of the motels here are pretty much in the ghetto, not a safe place to live generally speaking.

[dpl85]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

I don't think this is too far fetched. He spends almost all his time at the ranch. I think he said he was there for a good 3 months straight during tc.

there was a ny times article posted here about Bill Parcells that said he lives in a motel.
Hey BD I don't doubt you but could you post the link to that article, I never read it. Thanks

EDIT: My bad I found the article. I'm not trying to bust your balls BBD but there's a big difference between living in a motel and living in a condo. My brother lives in a motel, he only wishes he could live in a condo. There are some really nice expensive condos in and around Dallas.

[bigbluedefense]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

I don't think this is too far fetched. He spends almost all his time at the ranch. I think he said he was there for a good 3 months straight during tc.

there was a ny times article posted here about Bill Parcells that said he lives in a motel.
Hey BD I don't doubt you but could you post the link to that article, I never read it. Thanks

EDIT: My bad I found the article. I'm not trying to bust your balls BBD but there's a big difference between living in a motel and living in a condo. My brother lives in a motel, he only wishes he could live in a condo. There are some really nice expensive condos in and around Dallas.

my bad, mustve read it wrong

[Number-94]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/20/sports/profession

If Merriman gets caught again(with steriods)...do you think he'll still have any credibility left?

[Jughead10]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/20/sports/profession

If Merriman gets caught again(with steriods)...do you think he'll still have any credibility left?

He already lost a lot in my opinion. I think the biggest joke of the Pro Bowl was having him on it. He is having a great season but to have a player on the pro bowl who received a positive test in the same season is a bit much in my opinion.

[bigbluedefense]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/20/sports/profession

If Merriman gets caught again(with steriods)...do you think he'll still have any credibility left?

If he gets caught again, he's done. Finished. No more Derrick Thomas comparisons. But I won't put that on him until he's caught. Innocent till proven guilty is the motto, and I believe in it, so he has to get caught first.

This new shoe thing is intriguing to me though. Its a little fishy.

[Paul]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/20/sports/profession

If Merriman gets caught again(with steriods)...do you think he'll still have any credibility left?

He already lost a lot in my opinion. I think the biggest joke of the Pro Bowl was having him on it. He is having a great season but to have a player on the pro bowl who received a positive test in the same season is a bit much in my opinion.

People seem to have a short memory if your a stud player. That's why we put up with TO.

[Jughead10]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/20/sports/profession

If Merriman gets caught again(with steriods)...do you think he'll still have any credibility left?

He already lost a lot in my opinion. I think the biggest joke of the Pro Bowl was having him on it. He is having a great season but to have a player on the pro bowl who received a positive test in the same season is a bit much in my opinion.

People seem to have a short memory if your a stud player. That's why we put up with TO.

Well in this case it is extremely short memory since he has only been back for how many games? 3? He deserved it last year. Not this year. If next year he plays like this again without a positive test then he deserves it again. But I'm pretty upset the NFL would even allow him to be on the ballot.

[dpl85]

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/12/20/sports/profession

If Merriman gets caught again(with steriods)...do you think he'll still have any credibility left?
The link didn't work for me, what's the gist of the article?

[DMWSackMachine]

Me neither, can anyone copy and paste it? I really wanna read that damn thing.

[Ware_HITStick]

If we trade Julius Jones who do you think we'll look for in the draft? Someone like Ray Rice? why would we trade JJ? he doesn't seem to be doing too bad, although MB3 is better IMO. I believe in a 2 back system however... so it may be just me

[Ware_HITStick]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him. wait a damn second, this is a TEAM board, there are going to be homers... idiot

[Modano]

If we trade Julius Jones who do you think we'll look for in the draft? Someone like Ray Rice? why would we trade JJ? he doesn't seem to be doing too bad, although MB3 is better IMO. I believe in a 2 back system however... so it may be just me

rumors were that we tried to trade him last year to pick Maroney..

[DMWSackMachine]

lmao, Parcells just called Matt Schaub "that Schwab"....lol.

He said that "if that Schwab would have been out there" then we would have gotten quite a few more sacks that we ended up with in that game.

[Burns336]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him. wait a damn second, this is a TEAM board, there are going to be homers... idiot

well since this has already been settled i would have to say you are the IDIOT. And no, just becuase it is a team board, doesnt mean homerism is encourage. Facts, opinions, and various outlooks which have credibility to them is what the Team boards are based off of. The point of the board IMO is to allow different cowboy fans to share perspectives that open up entirely new possibilities in the minds of other cowboys fans.

Poet and I, both have agreed that Carp is doing what he needs to be doing in order to improve, but we had different outlooks on 2 particular plays.

Read everything next time before you call someone out moron.

[Poet3334]

I dont think carp played well at all. He just benefitted from playing vick who gets sacked all the time. Both his sacks were on vick when he was in scramble mode and ware had caused him to pretty much run into carp. Its encouraging but put your "anointing oils" away.

Stop that. I think people are acknowledging the fact that he was in on the action and contributed. And to be quite honest, I could care less if they were scamble mode sacks or not. We need all the sacks we can get no matter what "mode" they're in.

No i wont stop. The sacks are misleading. Many of the posters on the board dont get NFL network and the stats would lead them to believe carp had his best game and collapsed the pocket for a sack and a half. In reality he got the sacks after about 5 or 6 seconds of running around until vick was flushed into him. I hope carp turns out, all im saying is lets crush the homerism here and take the sacks for what they are. They are a product of carp being in the right place at the right time, not carp blowing past his man. on the solo sack he didnt even get off his man, vick pretty much ran into him. wait a damn second, this is a TEAM board, there are going to be homers... idiot

well since this has already been settled i would have to say you are the IDIOT. And no, just becuase it is a team board, doesnt mean homerism is encourage. Facts, opinions, and various outlooks which have credibility to them is what the Team boards are based off of. The point of the board IMO is to allow different cowboy fans to share perspectives that open up entirely new possibilities in the minds of other cowboys fans.

Poet and I, both have agreed that Carp is doing what he needs to be doing in order to improve, but we had different outlooks on 2 particular plays.

Read everything next time before you call someone out moron.

That's true. The thing that makes this board better than most in my opinion, is most people's tolerance of opinions. We all disagree from time to time.

[Number-94]

What does everyone think of Josh Wilson? Was thinking of him in the 2nd round if he's still there. Reminds me alot of Aaron Glenn and could learn from him, plus he will be able to take over the #1 CB job if Newmans age ever catches up to him around 32 or 33.

Lets face it Glenn is 34...I think... and Henry is 30 aren't gonna last forever.

[LSUALUM99]

Well, since we're back onto draft talk.

My official stance is that we need to draft a DB or Pass Rushing DE/OLB in the first round and in the second we draft the other.

After that we should concentrate on developmental players for WR/OL/DL/RB positions.

I began this thought process by asking, what common denominators there are with Championship teams.

The two single things that seemed to be apparent with virtually all SB teams is a very good QB (which we appear to have, but time will certainly tell) and a very good defense. Although we've invested alot of draft picks toward defense, we're still not dominant in that area.

To that end, I feel if it's a common denominator and it's one of the only common denominators then it's what we should concentrate on.

[chrlopez1]

I don't think a CB in round 1 or 2 is the way to go. Now if we can get a top rank FS...than go for it. What do u think of that merriweahter from Miami...would he be an upgrade over watkins?

Next year........What about Ellis..do we cut him or do u see him coming back.

I was looking at FoxSports rumors and they have us going after thier LB Adalious Thomas..

I think a DL would be a good and safe pick. I also think a WR might be worth a gamble if parcelss wnats to get into Owens head. For people who think Owens is out and all those experts..I really don't think Parcells will make a return and try one last time for a super bowl without Owen...it would be like starting over again.....Owens brings porblems,but he opens up the game so much for witten and glenn.

Players who will be gone:
Bledsoe
Al johnson
Keith Davis....traded.....I really think so
Al Singleton

who are recognized by serious fans....i am sure other will be gone.

Please reply

[thule]

What does everyone think of Josh Wilson? Was thinking of him in the 2nd round if he's still there. Reminds me alot of Aaron Glenn and could learn from him, plus he will be able to take over the #1 CB job if Newmans age ever catches up to him around 32 or 33.

Lets face it Glenn is 34...I think... and Henry is 30 aren't gonna last forever.

I mentioned this about 5 pages ago...that Wilson is essentially a Glenn clone with superiour return abilities. Depending on how he shows at the combine he may not be available in the second.

[Number-94]

What does everyone think of Josh Wilson? Was thinking of him in the 2nd round if he's still there. Reminds me alot of Aaron Glenn and could learn from him, plus he will be able to take over the #1 CB job if Newmans age ever catches up to him around 32 or 33.

Lets face it Glenn is 34...I think... and Henry is 30 aren't gonna last forever.

I mentioned this about 5 pages ago...that Wilson is essentially a Glenn clone with superiour return abilities. Depending on how he shows at the combine he may not be available in the second.

I'm hoping there's some way he will run a 4.45 Well, that's still good but IMO wouldn't be enough to boost him to the 1st. In the 1st I want either a CB or a OG to replace Rivera, he is playing god awful. Pushed back, ran by, or getting a holding call; I very very rarely see him making a actually block. Might be a good tutor though.

What do u think of that merriweahter from Miami...would he be an upgrade over watkins?

I'm sorry even though I love Reggie Nelson, you don't replace someone with as much physical ability as Pat Watkins that quick. You just don't, we have to give him his fair shot. I think your expecting to much out of a rookie.

[thule]

What does everyone think of Josh Wilson? Was thinking of him in the 2nd round if he's still there. Reminds me alot of Aaron Glenn and could learn from him, plus he will be able to take over the #1 CB job if Newmans age ever catches up to him around 32 or 33.

Lets face it Glenn is 34...I think... and Henry is 30 aren't gonna last forever.

I mentioned this about 5 pages ago...that Wilson is essentially a Glenn clone with superiour return abilities. Depending on how he shows at the combine he may not be available in the second.

I'm hoping there's some way he will run a 4.45 Well, that's still good but IMO wouldn't be enough to boost him to the 1st. In the 1st I want either a CB or a OG to replace Rivera, he is playing god awful. Pushed back, ran by, or getting a holding call; I very very rarely see him making a actually block. Might be a good tutor though.

What do u think of that merriweahter from Miami...would he be an upgrade over watkins?

I'm sorry even though I love Reggie Nelson, you don't replace someone with as much physical ability as Pat Watkins that quick. You just don't, we have to give him his fair shot. I think your expecting to much out of a rookie.

Wilson will run a sub 4.40 but that still doesn't put him in the first round. It's really gonna be how he shows at the combine...more technique I believe.

We are on the same page with Rivera...I've been calling for his head since 5 weeks into the season. I wouldn't be surprised to see us address this in FA.

I still think Tom Zibby fits our void nicely esspecially if we can get something for davis.

[Paul]

The thing with Watkins is I really haven't seen anything at all from him that would make me think he is the answer at FS. No steady or consistent play, no unbelievable feat of athleticism that he supposedly has, lack of ball skills when the deep ball is thrown, nothing. I know he is just a rookie and we say he never got a fair shot, but he started the first few games of the season, and aside from a fumble recovery against the Eagles, he did not play well. Even recently he hasn't shown an type of progression. And I believe if he doesn't progress in the offseason, we'll be in the same situation next year, the same situation we've been in since Woody left. So if in the 1st round, someone like Nelson, Griffin or Landry falls to us I saw we take him. They are playmakers, and instant impact players who can compliment Roy very well. I know, Watkins is probably a nice kid, and he has all the tools, but I just have very little faith in him. That's just me.

[bigbluedefense]

Well, since we're back onto draft talk.

My official stance is that we need to draft a DB or Pass Rushing DE/OLB in the first round and in the second we draft the other.

After that we should concentrate on developmental players for WR/OL/DL/RB positions.

I began this thought process by asking, what common denominators there are with Championship teams.

The two single things that seemed to be apparent with virtually all SB teams is a very good QB (which we appear to have, but time will certainly tell) and a very good defense. Although we've invested alot of draft picks toward defense, we're still not dominant in that area.

To that end, I feel if it's a common denominator and it's one of the only common denominators then it's what we should concentrate on.

Your LB core is fine. Its the front 3 that are mediocre. Even in a 3-4, it all starts up front with the horses. If they don't do their job, the LBs can't roam free. And Spears has been a bust so far, and Canty has been average. Couple that with an average 3-4 NT (Fergy is good, but nothing to brag about), your LBs aren't coming unblocked. No LB core in a 3-4 is worth squat without a dominant front 3.

Im starting to think that your mock should be built around that issue. Maybe Pitcock could be that high motor pass rusher that you guys lack, and replace Spears.

[leroyisgod]

WTF is that bigblue

[cowboysforever]

All the talk about zibkowski as a FS is out of place. First he is another grossly over rated ND white guy. Sorry guys. Second he is a SS in the Pros.

Every FS in the NFL should have played CB in College at a minimum or have those types of athletic skills. FS today has tons of coverage responsibilities and the 'step slow big hitter' is an anachronism.

This is why I am advocating Henry to FS.

On draft, if we can't get an edge rusher in round 1 we should get em in FA. Adalius Thomas would be great but expensive. In the draft, a guy who may fall to Dallas is Woodley from Mich. Kinda short for Bill but strong and can play either side.

DT in round 1 aint happin unless Branch falls into our lap.... Not. DE, not sure anything better than what we got.

Personally, I prefer they address CB or OL or WR in the first. I think draft is deepest here and when picking late 1 you need to go where depth is to get talent.

[cowboysforever]

I also advocate pushing to get Shaun Rogers from Detroit.

He would solve lots of problems in the pass rush and could play DE in run situations with Fergie as NT.

Probably need to give up one of our DL guys plus a pick but ....

Guy is in Marinelli's dog house and BP likes him.

[leroyisgod]

I also advocate pushing to get Shaun Rogers from Detroit.

He would solve lots of problems in the pass rush and could play DE in run situations with Fergie as NT.

Probably need to give up one of our DL guys plus a pick but ....

Guy is in Marinelli's dog house and BP likes him.

Leave Rogers alone, another guy with substance abuse problems is the last thing we need.

[DSlay4]

The real question is, who do we get to replace Julius Jones?

I personally think we should get Brian Lenoard. Think about it, he could line up at FB or HB, we could have him split carries with Marion Barber, he's a good lead blocker, and he can catch out of the backfield.

I really liked julius in his rookie season, but let's face it he runs like a ***** now, he has no heart. I say we dump him this off season.

[cowboysforever]

I also advocate pushing to get Shaun Rogers from Detroit.

He would solve lots of problems in the pass rush and could play DE in run situations with Fergie as NT.

Probably need to give up one of our DL guys plus a pick but ....

Guy is in Marinelli's dog house and BP likes him.

Leave Rogers alone, another guy with substance abuse problems is the last thing we need.

Who do we have with a substance abuse problems?

[Modano]

I also advocate pushing to get Shaun Rogers from Detroit.

He would solve lots of problems in the pass rush and could play DE in run situations with Fergie as NT.

Probably need to give up one of our DL guys plus a pick but ....

Guy is in Marinelli's dog house and BP likes him.

I'm agree with you on Rogers, he would be a huge upgrade. We need someone like Castillo too.. Maybe Hatcher could step up, or maybe Canty is just having a sophomore slump..

And for the Julius question, I don't think that if we trade him we'll need a Brian Leonard type of player, we'll need someone more like Ray Rice than Leonard.. A speedy back..

[dpl85]

What do yall think our #1 need is now for either the draft or FA? I said a couple weeks ago it was FS but now I'm not so sure as Pat Watkins seems to be improving each game and I think he's got a lot of potential. I think we need to address the fact that we don't have a consistent pass rush except Ware, that's a big reason we're currently ranked 20th in the L in pass defense.

Here are our offensive and defensive rankings:

Offense: Total 4th Run 10th Pass 4th

Defense: Total 11th Run 7th Pass 20th

Obviously the only glaring weakness is pass defense and we already have a lot of money invested in the secondary and by and large they have played well this season. Therefore I think our biggest weakness is our lack of a consistent pass rush, so I think that's our biggest need, I'm just not sure how we should address this need as we already have a lot of money and or draft picks invested on guys like Spears, Canty, and Carpenter, and it's still way too early to write those guys off.

[FinChase]

What are the odds that BP comes back next year? I personally would like to see him give it one more shot in 2007. I believe we're good enough to possibly win it all this year, but there's still some doubt in mind. Another year under Bill and this team could be dominent next year.

If you win the SB this year, I think he's gone. If you don't, theres a good chance he'll come back.

Remember he only came back because he was broke from his divorce, so he still probably wants a lil extra cash before he goes off to the sunset. That and Romo really have given him some extra energy to stick around.

But an interesting tidbit is the fact that he never bought a home in Dallas. He lives in a damn Motel, so that tells me that this is strictly a temporary stay for him. So who knows, BP is like Larry Brown, he'll jump ship at any moment.
How do you know Parcells lives in a motel, was this reported anywhere? I find this extremely hard to believe, if I had to guess I'd think he lives in a really expensive nice apartment, assuming he doesn't have a house here.

I don't think this is too far fetched. He spends almost all his time at the ranch. I think he said he was there for a good 3 months straight during tc.
He doesn't live in a motel by any stretch. He lives in an expensive section of Irving called Las Colinas, not far from Valley Ranch where the Cowboys headquarters is located. I actually live just down the road, although in a much less pricey complex. :) Now he may treat it like a motel, but that's his own choice. I'd love to live there by the canals.

[bigbluedefense]

Im telling you guys, its the front 3.

Next time you watch the game, look at the push the front 3 get. Its pretty average. You need a great push out of the front 3 to be a good 3-4 defense, so those LBs can come unblocked.

I think the front 3 need to be addressed.

I think Marcus Spears is gonna be a bust. You can be like NYG, and wait for him to come around for 4+ years and it will never happen, or you can cut your losses now.

I see William Joseph in him, I really do.

[dpl85]

We've got to give Spears and Canty at least another year, Parcells said it takes 3 years to really know if a guy can play or not. Parcells said he learned this from Landry, he's said this many times. I know it took Bradie James 3 years to actually become a good player, it would have been terrible if we had given up on Bradie after year 2 and he became a really good player for someone else. Another good example is Andre Gurode who actually really took 4 years to become a good player, luckily we didn't give up him and we're reaping the benefits of that patience now. I'm not saying Spears is gonna be just like James and Gurode but we should have some patience with him I think.

[leroyisgod]

We've got to give Spears and Canty at least another year, Parcells said it takes 3 years to really know if a guy can play or not. Parcells said he learned this from Landry, he's said this many times. I know it took Bradie James 3 years to actually become a good player, it would have been terrible if we had given up on Bradie after year 2 and he became a really good player for someone else. Another good example is Andre Gurode who actually really took 4 years to become a good player, luckily we didn't give up him and we're reaping the benefits of that patience now. I'm not saying Spears is gonna be just like James and Gurode but we should have some patience with him I think.

I fully agree with this point. We have to be patient with our young d-lineman. However, I will say that we should still look for more young talent in the draft. A deep d-line is a good thing.

[DMWSackMachine]

You've been riding that horse pretty heavy, BBD, but I think you are wrong. Spears is pretty damn good against the run, no worse than "above average". His problem is converting from run to pass on early downs. He only plays about half the snaps, and combined with the fact that he has to play straight up two-gap on every single play, it is making for a pretty big adjustment mentally for him.

You have to remember, this is a guy that has missed not just one but both training camps in his first two years. That is the time and place where most of the technique and mental work is done. Once the season starts it is mostly just studying your opponent and game-planning for specific things. He is not anywhere near where Joseph is, as he (WJ) simply doesn't put in the effort, and doesn't seem to "want it" enough to develop. Spears is a hard worker, and is dedicated to making it in this league. He has the potential to be a Richard Seymour-type dominator from his position, he just needs to play smarter and be more consistent in his technique. Even if he doesn't become dominant, he will still be a minimum of a good solid pro. He is nearly there already.

Canty actually concerns me more, even though he has played a bit better than Spears has. He is playing in the exact same scheme he played his college ball in. He hasn't missed any training camp either year, and he has been dominant during TC and preseason (and even the early part of this season), and yet he is having a hard time turning it into on-field production.

Again, both of these guys are very good against the run, as is Ferguson. He is vastly underrated, and while he isn't quite in the same category as Williams or Hampton, he is close to that against the run, and does decently against the pass.

Still, I think right now the pass rush is struggling from a conglomeration of small problems rather than one or two big ones. Firstly, Ellis is not here, and that is big. Secondly, DeMarcus isn't quite as far along as he should be given his physical ability. Third, Spears and Canty are not converting from run to pass well on early downs. Fourth, our inside LBs are not giving us jack-sh** of inside pressure, which is also related to the play of the front 3, but they still have opportunities - they are just harder to capitalize on. Fifth - and this is no longer a problem, but it was for a bit - Hatcher was injured and depleted our rush in that manner. And, finally, something that has gone unnoticed, but where the hell as Ratliff been? In the first 5 games he was a major disruptive force, even leading the team in sacks for a week or two, but now he is invisible. I haven't seen him make any type of play since the Indy game. I think he was one of the guys that Parcells was referring to when he said on Monday that he was giving the team a few days off to rest their legs and maybe get a couple of them back to where they were at the start of the season. He has been invisible.

So, I don't think we should panic, even though it is very tempting to do so. We did much better against Atlanta, and I think we could have gotten 6 or 7 if Vick hadn't been the QB. DeMarcus himself would have had at least 3. But Carp is showing some things, Hatcher is coming along, and we are showing more of a willingness to blitz. Hopefully that will continue.

[bigbluedefense]

You've been riding that horse pretty heavy, BBD, but I think you are wrong. Spears is pretty damn good against the run, no worse than "above average". His problem is converting from run to pass on early downs. He only plays about half the snaps, and combined with the fact that he has to play straight up two-gap on every single play, it is making for a pretty big adjustment mentally for him.

You have to remember, this is a guy that has missed not just one but both training camps in his first two years. That is the time and place where most of the technique and mental work is done. Once the season starts it is mostly just studying your opponent and game-planning for specific things. He is not anywhere near where Joseph is, as he (WJ) simply doesn't put in the effort, and doesn't seem to "want it" enough to develop. Spears is a hard worker, and is dedicated to making it in this league. He has the potential to be a Richard Seymour-type dominator from his position, he just needs to play smarter and be more consistent in his technique. Even if he doesn't become dominant, he will still be a minimum of a good solid pro. He is nearly there already.

Canty actually concerns me more, even though he has played a bit better than Spears has. He is playing in the exact same scheme he played his college ball in. He hasn't missed any training camp either year, and he has been dominant during TC and preseason (and even the early part of this season), and yet he is having a hard time turning it into on-field production.

Again, both of these guys are very good against the run, as is Ferguson. He is vastly underrated, and while he isn't quite in the same category as Williams or Hampton, he is close to that against the run, and does decently against the pass.

Still, I think right now the pass rush is struggling from a conglomeration of small problems rather than one or two big ones. Firstly, Ellis is not here, and that is big. Secondly, DeMarcus isn't quite as far along as he should be given his physical ability. Third, Spears and Canty are not converting from run to pass well on early downs. Fourth, our inside LBs are not giving us jack-sh** of inside pressure, which is also related to the play of the front 3, but they still have opportunities - they are just harder to capitalize on. Fifth - and this is no longer a problem, but it was for a bit - Hatcher was injured and depleted our rush in that manner. And, finally, something that has gone unnoticed, but where the hell as Ratliff been? In the first 5 games he was a major disruptive force, even leading the team in sacks for a week or two, but now he is invisible. I haven't seen him make any type of play since the Indy game. I think he was one of the guys that Parcells was referring to when he said on Monday that he was giving the team a few days off to rest their legs and maybe get a couple of them back to where they were at the start of the season. He has been invisible.

So, I don't think we should panic, even though it is very tempting to do so. We did much better against Atlanta, and I think we could have gotten 6 or 7 if Vick hadn't been the QB. DeMarcus himself would have had at least 3. But Carp is showing some things, Hatcher is coming along, and we are showing more of a willingness to blitz. Hopefully that will continue.

Those are all great points. I didn't realize that about Spears. I guess you have to give him along with the rest of that youth some time. Theres no question about their abilities against the run, I think the issue is of course the pass rush, and I overlooked some reasons for that lack of rush that you mentioned.

Still, some good depth wouldn't hurt. But then again, you have depth. I think NT is the real culprit here, to truely be a dominant 3-4, a dominant NT is a must. That and BP just isn't really open to blitzing this year. I think the play of the Safeties has really hindered the playbook from opening up.

I think Roy seriously needs to lose 15 pounds in the offseason. I know the hits are great, but at the end of the day, he needs to improve his coverage. The team needs him to become more commited in developing his coverage techniques this offseason.

I don't think its fair to write off Watkins yet. He's physically just as capable as any of these rookies in this draft, and he just has to work on technique and such. And afterall, he's only a rookie, he's making rookie mistakes. So that puts your draft board in a tough spot. Do you draft FS, or give Watkins more time? Id say give Watkins more time, but theres only one person who truely knows the answer to this question, and thats BP. So I guess its a wait and see sort of thing. If BP doesn't feel that Watkins can be the answer, Im pretty sure he addresses FS, if he doesn't address FS, that tells me he has confidence in Watkins.

[dpl85]

That's a good point DMW about Spears missing the first two training camps with injuries that had to ****** his development.

From Parcells press conference:

Parcells actually called Andy Reid earlier in the season to offer support?!

Jason Hatcher missed practice cuz his wife had a baby today, congrats Jason!

Not an evenful press conference at all, they're asking kind of stupid questions.

Bill talking about the importance of preparing our young players for the aura of the playoffs and a playoff atmosphere.

Bill said the FB problems are really elementary simple mistakes.

I'm pretty sure it's Ryan Fowler that keeps letting the FBs run free. Folwer is really only there cuz he's a strong run defender but if he's this bad in coverage maybe we should be using Burnett in that role.

EDIT: FYI I didn't type nice guy his development :lol: censorship is a good idea but it doesn't allow for interpretation of context.

[DMWSackMachine]

Personally, I think censorship is dumb as hell, but I don't make the rules, so whatever. The fact that you can't say something like "this or that has r e t a r d ed his development" which literally means "slowed down, or inhibited" is ridiculous. All so that some freakin' down-syndrome person, or someone who knows or loves one, doesn't come in and see it and become mortally wounded. Even if it's a good idea, that is taking it way too far.

But moving on....

On Watkins, there is no way we can write him off. Someone said before that he hasn't done anything all year......:shock: :shock: . Um, what about LAST WEEK? He did get an interception, and don't you dare write that damn thing off. That's exactly what safeties are supposed to do. They are in charge of staying in position to prevent the deep ball, and when the QB is dumb enough to throw it anyway, they pick it off. He did his job, and more importantly was not involved directly in any one of the big plays that Atlanta had. He has been much better lately, and he had some nice plays early on. I think he just needs to get his confidence, and that good play will follow.

Still, if he doesn't pan out we would be in trouble. I think the best thing to do would be to go after a solid vet who won't break the bank (a Tony Parrish type would be perfect, except as a FS), but will do a fair job if Watkins doesn't develop next year. Then go after a top FS the next year. You have to give the kid a chance, but not push all your chips in on him.

[Number-94]

That's a good point DMW about Spears missing the first two training camps with injuries that had to nice guy his development.

From Parcells press conference:

Parcells actually called Andy Reid earlier in the season to offer support?!

Jason Hatcher missed practice cuz his wife had a baby today, congrats Jason!

Not an evenful press conference at all, they're asking kind of stupid questions.

Bill talking about the importance of preparing our young players for the aura of the playoffs and a playoff atmosphere.

Bill said the FB problems are really elementary simple mistakes.

I'm pretty sure it's Ryan Fowler that keeps letting the FBs run free. Folwer is really only there cuz he's a strong run defender but if he's this bad in coverage maybe we should be using Burnett in that role.

EDIT: FYI I didn't type nice guy his development :lol: censorship is a good idea but it doesn't allow for interpretation of context.

Didn't see the PC so I don't know if Bill said it's Fowler or not. But I'm really starting to think it's Ware. Teams know where the rush is coming from, Ware or no ware(har har). So why not send a FB his way and get one that's wide open or let him cover and get 7 seconds in the pocket.

P.S.
I'm not blaming Ware but the lack of pass rush from everyone else.

[Poet3334]

That's a good point DMW about Spears missing the first two training camps with injuries that had to nice guy his development.

From Parcells press conference:

Parcells actually called Andy Reid earlier in the season to offer support?!

Jason Hatcher missed practice cuz his wife had a baby today, congrats Jason!

Not an evenful press conference at all, they're asking kind of stupid questions.

Bill talking about the importance of preparing our young players for the aura of the playoffs and a playoff atmosphere.

Bill said the FB problems are really elementary simple mistakes.

I'm pretty sure it's Ryan Fowler that keeps letting the FBs run free. Folwer is really only there cuz he's a strong run defender but if he's this bad in coverage maybe we should be using Burnett in that role.

EDIT: FYI I didn't type nice guy his development :lol: censorship is a good idea but it doesn't allow for interpretation of context.

Didn't see the PC so I don't know if Bill said it's Fowler or not. But I'm really starting to think it's Ware. Teams know where the rush is coming from, Ware or no ware(har har). So why not send a FB his way and get one that's wide open or let him cover and get 7 seconds in the pocket.

P.S.
I'm not blaming Ware but the lack of pass rush from everyone else.

I read this morning that it was both. Ware rushed Vick instead keeping ground on one of the touchdowns for Grifin. On another play Fowler missed his assignment. I'm still looking for that article. I'll post it when I find it.

Okay guys, sorry. Don't hold me to that. I think I got my articles mixed up.

[dpl85]

Bill obviously didn't want to mention anybody by name specifically and assign blame publicly but in reading between the lines I'm pretty sure it's Fowler on most of those plays. However, Bill did say that it could be either the ILB or OLB responsibility. If you listen or watch the PC he went into detail about the FB mistakes, saying it was a guy who mistaknely thought they were playing one coverage when they were playing something different.

[draftguru151]

Is Newman a pro bowl alternate? I think it's nuts he didn't get it this year.

[dpl85]

Is Newman a pro bowl alternate? I think it's nuts he didn't get it this year.
We won't find out until later but obviously he deserved to make it as a starter or at least a reserve at the very least. There's no doubt in my mind Newman is significantly better than Hall.

[LSUALUM99]

BBD -

I do not claim to know the exact cause of the problem with the defense. I leave that up to the coaches, who not only 1) know more about football than any of us could dream about, but also 2) get to see the real game film while also knowing what each player was supposed to do in that situation.

You'll very rarely see me comment on specific performances within a game. I comment on the theory of the way things are supposed to happen. I also comment on observations of general circumstances (i.e. pressure on the QB, or past SB winners and what common threads they have).

To that end, I cannot say if it's the NT (I personally think it's not, but I'm not a coach) or the DE or the LB's. What I can say is that I feel that the first two picks in the draft should be geared toward the defense.

Going into this season I felt that the offense would be the limiting factor. As of this writing the offense is the second most prolific scoring offense in the league. So obviously, it's not the offense that's limiting the Cowboys.

I also feel that, with only a few exceptions, every solid SB team has had a very good defense and good QB play. Some can run the ball, some do not. Some have great WR's, some do not. Some had stellar OL, some did not. But they all had a good defense and good QB play.

[bigbluedefense]

BBD -

I do not claim to know the exact cause of the problem with the defense. I leave that up to the coaches, who not only 1) know more about football than any of us could dream about, but also 2) get to see the real game film while also knowing what each player was supposed to do in that situation.

You'll very rarely see me comment on specific performances within a game. I comment on the theory of the way things are supposed to happen. I also comment on observations of general circumstances (i.e. pressure on the QB, or past SB winners and what common threads they have).

To that end, I cannot say if it's the NT (I personally think it's not, but I'm not a coach) or the DE or the LB's. What I can say is that I feel that the first two picks in the draft should be geared toward the defense.

Going into this season I felt that the offense would be the limiting factor. As of this writing the offense is the second most prolific scoring offense in the league. So obviously, it's not the offense that's limiting the Cowboys.

I also feel that, with only a few exceptions, every solid SB team has had a very good defense and good QB play. Some can run the ball, some do not. Some have great WR's, some do not. Some had stellar OL, some did not. But they all had a good defense and good QB play.

Sometimes my personal beliefs on what wins and how to build teams comes out in my posts. I played on a team that preached smashmouth football that put a strong emphasis on physical play and in particular, strong play in the trenches. So sometimes you'll see my bias in those beliefs come out in my posts.

Having that said, I do honestly feel that it all starts up front, and while none of us are coaches, there are alot of weaknesses we can notice on our respective teams that could use improvement. Their eyes are no different from mine in a sense that we both can see, and Ive been around the game long enough to know a thing or do about the Xs and Os and assignments and what not. Not as in detail as the coaches of course but at the end of the day its not that complex.

Being a Giants fan, Im very familiar with the 3-4 defense and what makes it tick. And the common denominator among all the elite 3-4 teams Ive ever saw was a dominant front 3. You must create a push out of the front 3 to thrive in a 3-4, or any defense for that matter.

As great as the Giants defense was in the 80s, they wouldn't be squat if Leonard Marshall, Jim Burt, and George Martin didn't hold the fort up front. The Patriots defense wouldn't be squat without Seymour, Wilfork and Warren up front. And SD's defense thrives on the stellar play of their front 3.

Take Pittsburgh for example. They have for roughly a decade, ran the 3-4. In their entire tenure in the 3-4, while theyve had a good set of linebackers, theyve never had a dominant pass rushing class of linebackers. They always had a solid group, but nothing to wow about. Yet for the past 10 years, theyve always been near the top of the NFL in defense. Why? Because while their LBs were always serviceable, they always committed their defense to be very strong up front in their front 3. So while their Lb cores weren't necessarily the bigblue of the 80s, they were always able to consistently be a top 10 defense because of their stellar play in the trenches which allowed their LBs to roam more freely.

Look at their core right now. Porter, Foote, Farrior, Hagans. Not really the fearsome foursome if I say so myself. Are they good? Yes they are, but theyre not as good as SD, NE, or Dallas's lb core. Yet just last year, they were the most dominant of the 3-4 defenses, because they dominated up front. It all starts up front.

And thats what I don't see in Dallas this year. I haven't seen the front 3 do what they need to do to the offensive line. They don't generate that push that can allow their ILBs to come unblocked on the blitz, they don't occupy the tackles so the OLBs can come unblocked off the edge, theyre not occupying the linemen the way theyre supposed to.

They do enough to be very good, but theyre not doing enough to be dominant. Now a passive style is also the issue here with the Cowboys, but it doesn't excuse the fact that the front 3 aren't winning their individual assignments. Not consistently at least.

Now with experience of course the DEs can improve so maybe drafting DE doesn't necessarily solve the problem. But theres no doubt that the front 3 have not been playing up to par, and that must be improved upon in whatever way for the Dallas defense to take the next step.

[Number 10]

Do you guys know who your pro bowl alternates are?

[LSUALUM99]

Do you guys know who your pro bowl alternates are?

I don't really care who makes the probowl or not. In fact, I'd rather none of the players make it from the Dallas Cowboys.

It makes them more expensive if they do. And, it looks better to win the Super Bowl with zero PB's than with 9 PB's.

[LSUALUM99]

BBD -

I do not claim to know the exact cause of the problem with the defense. I leave that up to the coaches, who not only 1) know more about football than any of us could dream about, but also 2) get to see the real game film while also knowing what each player was supposed to do in that situation.

You'll very rarely see me comment on specific performances within a game. I comment on the theory of the way things are supposed to happen. I also comment on observations of general circumstances (i.e. pressure on the QB, or past SB winners and what common threads they have).

To that end, I cannot say if it's the NT (I personally think it's not, but I'm not a coach) or the DE or the LB's. What I can say is that I feel that the first two picks in the draft should be geared toward the defense.

Going into this season I felt that the offense would be the limiting factor. As of this writing the offense is the second most prolific scoring offense in the league. So obviously, it's not the offense that's limiting the Cowboys.

I also feel that, with only a few exceptions, every solid SB team has had a very good defense and good QB play. Some can run the ball, some do not. Some have great WR's, some do not. Some had stellar OL, some did not. But they all had a good defense and good QB play.

Sometimes my personal beliefs on what wins and how to build teams comes out in my posts. I played on a team that preached smashmouth football that put a strong emphasis on physical play and in particular, strong play in the trenches. So sometimes you'll see my bias in those beliefs come out in my posts.

Having that said, I do honestly feel that it all starts up front, and while none of us are coaches, there are alot of weaknesses we can notice on our respective teams that could use improvement. Their eyes are no different from mine in a sense that we both can see, and Ive been around the game long enough to know a thing or do about the Xs and Os and assignments and what not. Not as in detail as the coaches of course but at the end of the day its not that complex.

Being a Giants fan, Im very familiar with the 3-4 defense and what makes it tick. And the common denominator among all the elite 3-4 teams Ive ever saw was a dominant front 3. You must create a push out of the front 3 to thrive in a 3-4, or any defense for that matter.

As great as the Giants defense was in the 80s, they wouldn't be squat if Leonard Marshall, Jim Burt, and George Martin didn't hold the fort up front. The Patriots defense wouldn't be squat without Seymour, Wilfork and Warren up front. And SD's defense thrives on the stellar play of their front 3.

Take Pittsburgh for example. They have for roughly a decade, ran the 3-4. In their entire tenure in the 3-4, while theyve had a good set of linebackers, theyve never had a dominant pass rushing class of linebackers. They always had a solid group, but nothing to wow about. Yet for the past 10 years, theyve always been near the top of the NFL in defense. Why? Because while their LBs were always serviceable, they always committed their defense to be very strong up front in their front 3. So while their Lb cores weren't necessarily the bigblue of the 80s, they were always able to consistently be a top 10 defense because of their stellar play in the trenches which allowed their LBs to roam more freely.

Look at their core right now. Porter, Foote, Farrior, Hagans. Not really the fearsome foursome if I say so myself. Are they good? Yes they are, but theyre not as good as SD, NE, or Dallas's lb core. Yet just last year, they were the most dominant of the 3-4 defenses, because they dominated up front. It all starts up front.

And thats what I don't see in Dallas this year. I haven't seen the front 3 do what they need to do to the offensive line. They don't generate that push that can allow their ILBs to come unblocked on the blitz, they don't occupy the tackles so the OLBs can come unblocked off the edge, theyre not occupying the linemen the way theyre supposed to.

They do enough to be very good, but theyre not doing enough to be dominant. Now a passive style is also the issue here with the Cowboys, but it doesn't excuse the fact that the front 3 aren't winning their individual assignments. Not consistently at least.

Now with experience of course the DEs can improve so maybe drafting DE doesn't necessarily solve the problem. But theres no doubt that the front 3 have not been playing up to par, and that must be improved upon in whatever way for the Dallas defense to take the next step.

I don't disagree with that. I do however think that it's less of a NT problem and more of a DE problem. That's why I favor drafting a DE or OLB who can provide more of a prescence that what we currently have.

I also think that drafting a CB in the first round makes alot of sense. Glenn is 34 and Henry is 30 neither of which is young. Drafting a guy to play nickle and/or start in a year makes sense to me.

[Number 10]

Do you guys know who your pro bowl alternates are?

I don't really care who makes the probowl or not. In fact, I'd rather none of the players make it from the Dallas Cowboys.

It makes them more expensive if they do. And, it looks better to win the Super Bowl with zero PB's than with 9 PB's.

I'm with you on that on....I just wanted to know who the Cowboy alternates were.

[thule]

Great talk

We all agree DE pressure is a slight problems. I agree that Spears isn't as far along as he should be...but those injuries really took him away from the gym which is probabally the area he most needed to work in when drafted. If he can finish the season off healthy I expect good things from him next year.

One note that I really love. Everyone here was worried about the offense...about week 3 or something Parcells went out in public and said it wasn't the defense that was worriing him...that to me speaks volume of his knowledge of this team.

[thule]

Anyone else surprised with how much time fowler is seeing. This is my question. We have great youth at the outside with burnett and carp and ware. Burnett is playing a key role in the nickel, but sometimes I question the move to hold him behind Ware. He also plays alot of special teams so maybe it is best to leave him as a backup with how much we run the nickel. My point is our second LB seems to change in the nickel sometimes...that majority of the time you see James back there..but occasionally Carp is back there. This is where my question comes in. Depending on where carp plays next year I think we see ourselves add one more LB to the crew. Because regaurdless we'll need one more guy on the inside if Carp stays Strong side or we'll need a bringeruper behind Ellis. I'm not sure it will be a first day option since the lack of depth but I could definately see us bringing in a guy. One guy that just seems to be right up Parcells alley is Paul Putz. Anyone else think so? Parcells tends to draft prolific players from prolific schools. Call me crazy but I could actually see us picking up another LB in the first round...if some of our prospects aren't there. How crazy would that be. I assume he would play the outside but I think he has the skill set to beable to stand up on the strong side.

[thule]

I think the general consensus around here is that noone really knows what to make of the FS position. Watkins looks to be progessing but if he doesn't...it will be the same thing is last year. Is it really worth it to pick a top prospect? Have all that money invested into the secondary? Doesn't make sense money wise, but could definately see it.

I would just like to use this to strengthen my Zibby arguement. Zibby is a guy that could immediately replace Davis like I said...but he also has the ability to compliment Roy and Watkins well. Now with all the snaps Watkins and Zibby would be getting on special teams...I highly doubt parcells wants to start a player there all game. This fits right into the way Parcells coaches as far as how many players get how many plays. He loves his plays to contribute to more then one asspect of the game...which is why we see guys like Roy on the kickoff return team. I think with Zibby in majority of the first downs and about half of the 2nd downs...and watkins in on half the 2nd downs and the obvious passing situations you could see both players playing fulltime special teams...which will just make way to much sense for me to ever drop this topic. Think about this. Parcells goes after a first round FS. Do you really see Nelson playing special teams...plus elam....plus watkins. If we go FS first round..one of our backup safeties is cut. I highly doubt parcells wasting that many roster spots on guys who play only special teams. Lets face it....Reeves/Austin/Thompson are all guys who only see time on special teams. Maybe i'm doing some funny math but this still makes too much sense.

I'd also like to put out some props to the guy who put Leonard to Dallas. I had thought about this in the past...but didn't think it was possible do to the lack of breakaway speed our running game would suffer. But then I think about Thompson coming back. Our lack of a h-back...and I see that this pick also makes sense. Not to mentino this guy also has good special teams ability. My only quesiton is....does parcells think Hoyte is doing as good of a job as I do. Personally I love the way he hits the hole...but then again it does kind of go away from how parcells likes to use his fullbacks. Or maybe parcells just thinks Fasano needs a bit of time to work on his blocking and he is the h-back solution. But I do like Leonard to the cowboys. I'll be curious to see if parcells has anything to say about him. I definately think we will have a better idea of what to expect after the senior bowl...that is probabally the best time of the year to hear about what prospects we'll be eyeing. I still think if we shy away from the bruising runner we go with Loorenzo Booker...he is simply electric when he has the ball...I could see him falling to the second day..but he should run really well at the combine so it will be interesting.

[Modano]

I don't know why you want a guy like Zbikwoski He can't cover at college level, he will be burned all the time in the NFL...

[Modano]

Do you guys know who your pro bowl alternates are?

I don't have any source, i've just found in a forum that our alternates are Witten, Owens, Newman and Columbo..

[thule]

I don't know why you want a guy like Zbikwoski He can't cover at college level, he will be burned all the time in the NFL...

So what do you suggest..draft nelson...and give up on Watkins? I mean if we are looking for a true center fielder....Watkins has all the tools to be the best. Yet he just seems to need a bit more time. I've had the arguement plenty enough now....but I'm just saying he is definately an upgrade over davis....if for some reason davis isn't back next year he would be the perfect replacement. I mean lets face it...ND is terrible...its not like hes asked to sit back and play cover 2....he is forced to play the whole field...they don't have a person in the secondary worth a crap. Yet he is all over the field making plays. I don't care that he can't cover like Ed Reed...point is...the way parcells is running the FS position...he wants someone who can contribute on more than one position. Lets face it....Zibby could return punts and play ever special teams unit. Plus he would be an upgrade over Davis on defense....so why not bring in younger...better player who has connections to parcells. I can see how you don't agree with the pick...but you can't also say that the pick doesn't make any sense.

One thing to realize...this isn't our draft. I really try to present my players as actually parcells type players. I mean granted if you have talent and good work ethic your a parcells player...but last year had anyone done research we woulda saw the Fasano connection. I mean last year we broke down about every asspect of our first round pick...and we had people that came in here wanting Lendale and Lawson....yet when you broke it down everything pointed to Carp....so I really don't care who we want. I want to predict a draft. And for me to do that...I look at connections and tendencies...obviously the draft isn't a math problem..but it does help with alot of things.

Bottomline is...if you draft a top tier FS...you give up on the watkins project and start over. I personally don't have a problem..but I think parcells is too stubborn to give up so early. After all this kid earned the starting job from the beginning of the season over a supposed parcells type player. I don't think he's gonna throw in the towel and draft a replacement after just a year. Esspecially when Watkins has all the measurements/talents to be elite. I mean we can look at Pettiti a guy with all the experience...yet he got cut for the more savy talent ridden player. I don't think anyone saw us cutting Pettiti but parcells saw that he truely wasn't gonna have an impact on this team in the future.

I can honestly see guys like Fowler/Davis/JJ/Crayton not being with us next year. I personally think there is a demand for them out there and if i'm not mistaken their contracts come up in the next two years. Another reason is...we can find younger players for cheaper with just as much potential as them right now. JJ has been good for us but his rookie contract comes up....and hasn't exactly exceeded the expectations from us. Fowler is nothing more then a puzzle peice. Davis I have come to believe has officially made it into parcells dog house. Crayton has shown alot but where does this leave hurd and austin for development? If I had to bet one position to lose a playing time player it would be WR...it is a bit of a log jam...and we are in need of a future number one...numbers just don't add up.

[Jdallas]

I don't know why you want a guy like Zbikwoski He can't cover at college level, he will be burned all the time in the NFL...

I agree. Keith Davis and Zibikowski are on the same level as a free safety right now. Davis is the better player because he's so good on special teams. I don't think Zbikowski has a very high ceiling at all, especially not at free safety.

I wouldn't be in favor of picking another safety early in the draft unless it was an elite guy and then I would only accept it. Everyone just needs to be more patient with players developing. Everyone wanted to label Watkins a savior in the preseason because he beat out Davis. Beating out Davis doesn't mean you've reached your ceiling as an NFL player. Watkins will continue to develop in years to come and hopefully become a very good player in a couple of years.

[Modano]

You, as always, have made some pretty good points..
I really don't know what to do about Watkins. He is the guy we have seen the first 4 weeks, o is he the guy we've seen against the Eagles?
I think he has potential, a ton of potential, but if he fail well'have the same problem next year.. I really don't know.. If a guy like Nelson or Griffin will fall into our laps (and that's pretty possible, considering that S is not a premiere position) I think that we have to take him.. It would mean that we're givin up on Watkins, but with a top FS we'll solve one of our biggest area of concern..

And about JJ, I think that we can trade him if we want to rise some positions in the draft.. I loved him when he was a rookie but I think that we can find a good replacement.. Last year we tried to trade up to pick Maroney, so what about trading up to pick Lynch? RB is another position that usually fall in the draft.. Maroney was considered a top 15 pick and so was DeAngelo but they both fall to the end of the first.. I know that it's fanta-football but I would love to have someone like Lynch (who, imo, is better than Maroney)..

We have to pick the best player avaible, imo, no matter the position he play. CB, S, RB, OT, OG, WR... If a top prospect fall into our laps we have to pick him because we have a very complete team..
We need a NT. Somone who can dominate.. I know that many people say that we would play end in a 3-4 but I think that is big enough an strong enough to play NT at high level.. The idea to trade for Rogers sounds good to me.. But it's fanta-football once again..
Right now, NT and FS are our biggest need. Ferguson is playing extremely well but if we want to dominate we need our Jamal Williams.. We have a lot of young ends, I think that they will step up.. I'm not dissapointed with Canty, he just need to keep playing at the same level for an entire season and not for only an half.. Spears maybe is sufferin sophomore slump.. And I really like what I saw from Hatcher..

And we need a DC who knows the 3-4 better than Zimmer..

[ThaU4Life]

Watkins was a 5th rounder, if he doesn't work out then he doesn't work out but Zibikowski in no way will help fix that problem. He already has bad cover skills and there not going to get better at the next level.

[CTCowboysFan]

I feel fine about Watkins, it's Henry and Roy Williams that make me nervous in coverage.

Why don't the Cowboys find a way to move Roy Williams to linebacker, and bring in another ballhawk type to come in on obvious passing situations for Roy at Safety. A guy like Michael Johnson out of Arizona could fill the role nicely and he wouldn't take a top pick either, he's probably a 5th round guy like Watkins.

[DMWSackMachine]

Well, I love this early draft fever that's going around the board, but there is still a ton of football to play. To me, the way we go (at least on day-one) is going to be determined by the result of the NFC Championship game, when we play the Bears at Soldier Field. That is going to show us where we are, and where we're going. There is at least another 3 games to play before that, which would mean at least 4 games left in the season. That's a ton of football.

This is the time of year where a lot of rookies finally start to "get it". I think Watson is certainly capable of making an impression this year. If you listen to the way that Parcells speaks of him, it's like he doesn't understand why he doesn't show the same things on the field as he does during practice, and in TC. He said just yesterday "well, it doesn't matter why it happened, but it happened" in reference to the big plays that he gave up early in the year. He sounds frustrated and confused, not by his poor play, but by the fact that he didn't play up to the level that Bill knows he is capable of.

So, there is that. But a lot of guys are going to be showing what they are made of here in the coming weeks. Fasano, JJ, Colombo, Gurode, MBIII, Hatcher, Spears, Canty, Ratliff and most especially Romo are all going to determine - to some extent - the length and nature of their tenure with this team. I think if JJ turns in another one or two performances like last week, then he is gone. Period. Likewise, Spears and Canty have got to show the staff something to make them feel that they can really have faith that these guys are going to be building blocks for the future. Colombo has performed well, but how is he going to handle blocking Ogunleye, Strahan, or Darren Howard in a playoff atmosphere, with his team's season on the line? And Romo....he's had a great start, but what if he comes out and lays a duck in a playoff game? That would seriously give the FO pause about his future prospects.

I know we think we know a lot, but I still think there is a ton of picture left to be painted, and plenty of the roster is still in flux. Who knows, maybe Flozell falls apart and suddenly left tackle is a huge question mark. Personally, I think Parcells is going to hit us with a major curveball. The nature of this team, and the draft class that is starting to shape up, leads me to believe that we could draft someone that is just way out in left field, sort of like Fasano was last year. So....while all this talk in entertaining, I do think that our opinions are nearly worthless right now.

[DMWSackMachine]

Did anyone see Scott's scouting report on Okoye? He has him pegged as a possible NT in the 3-4, which is strange because I had heard him talked about as a big-time one-gapper with good explosiveness. That's strange, but if this is true he could get a look from us, eh? I don't think anyone knows what to make of him with his youth and a lack of precedent, but if he has the potential to be a big-time NT, he would certainly jump way up near the top of my most intriguing prospect list.

[Paul]

Did anyone see Scott's scouting report on Okoye? He has him pegged as a possible NT in the 3-4, which is strange because I had heard him talked about as a big-time one-gapper with good explosiveness. That's strange, but if this is true he could get a look from us, eh? I don't think anyone knows what to make of him with his youth and a lack of precedent, but if he has the potential to be a big-time NT, he would certainly jump way up near the top of my most intriguing prospect list.

Around the board, I've heard everything from him being Cover 2 type DT, to your mentioned 3-4 NT. So either somebody doesn't know what there talking about, or Okoye is very,very , very versitle.

[cowboysforever]

I think someone eluded to the same thing I am asserting which is that other than TE we should take the best player available in this draft.

With that said, we should try to trade for, or sign, an impact player on the Front Seven. We won't get a starter on the front seven via draft.

A Thomas and S Rogers are atainable.

Draft this year is deep OL, DB and WR. But, hey, Marshawn Lynch would be sweet.

[cowboysforever]

Did anyone see Scott's scouting report on Okoye? He has him pegged as a possible NT in the 3-4, which is strange because I had heard him talked about as a big-time one-gapper with good explosiveness. That's strange, but if this is true he could get a look from us, eh? I don't think anyone knows what to make of him with his youth and a lack of precedent, but if he has the potential to be a big-time NT, he would certainly jump way up near the top of my most intriguing prospect list.

Around the board, I've heard everything from him being Cover 2 type DT, to your mentioned 3-4 NT. So either somebody doesn't know what there talking about, or Okoye is very,very , very versitle.

At least he is young and big.

[LSUALUM99]

I think someone eluded to the same thing I am asserting which is that other than TE we should take the best player available in this draft.

With that said, we should try to trade for, or sign, an impact player on the Front Seven. We won't get a starter on the front seven via draft.

A Thomas and S Rogers are atainable.

Draft this year is deep OL, DB and WR. But, hey, Marshawn Lynch would be sweet.

Shaun Rogers is signed through 2010. No way he's attainable.

[Poet3334]

Did anyone see Scott's scouting report on Okoye? He has him pegged as a possible NT in the 3-4, which is strange because I had heard him talked about as a big-time one-gapper with good explosiveness. That's strange, but if this is true he could get a look from us, eh? I don't think anyone knows what to make of him with his youth and a lack of precedent, but if he has the potential to be a big-time NT, he would certainly jump way up near the top of my most intriguing prospect list.

Around the board, I've heard everything from him being Cover 2 type DT, to your mentioned 3-4 NT. So either somebody doesn't know what there talking about, or Okoye is very,very , very versitle.

I started a topic awhile back in the draft forum about him. I like his versatility, youth, and explosiveness. I was a little worried about the fact that he's lost some weight, but he's so young he has time to fill out. I think he's someone who bears watching.

[CTCowboysFan]

This is random but does anybody else feel like this year's draft is really weak on talent compared to last year with the exception of wide receiver?

[Staubach12]

This is random but does anybody else feel like this year's draft is really weak on talent compared to last year with the exception of wide receiver?

I think so. Last year was a really good year, and I definately think less rookies will have an impact imediately come next year compared to this year.

[bigbluedefense]

Couple of things I wanted to mention.

- Why does everyone love Zibkowski so much? Is it the Notre Dame aura? I honestly wouldn't take him anywhere in the first 4 rounds. He is way too much of a project player. He can't cover at all, he has the physical attributes but will need a TON of technique work to be a good player. And at best I see him as a SS. I don't think you guys need another one of those.

- I think LSUAlum makes an excellent point. With the oline playing well and the OTs in this draft class being weak, and the DT group in this draft being weak, drafting a CB in round 1 makes sense. You have aging CBs, drafting a guy now will have him ready by 08/09 so you won't miss a beat. Maybe you can gamble on a guy like McCauley and hope he can learn on the bench for a year and then have a crazy CB duo the year after.

- To me, Okeye is a 4-3 NT or a 4-3 UT. Everyone who is saying he can be a 3-4 NT is just assuming that because he's so young that he can put on more muslce on his frame and learn the position. But just this year, he struggled at 315 and had his best games at 290, so I don't know if you'd want him to put on more muscle. He is very raw and can project into a number of roles, but from my own personal evaluation, I don't know if he can be a dominant 3-4 NT. I would draft him as a 4-3 NT/UT and hope that he can develop into a Henderson/Stroud with good coaching and strength conditioning. I don't know if he's worth investing as a Cover 2 UT like many say, he has too much potential to waste as a undersized penetrator.

- In regards to the FS position, like I said its a wait and see thing. If BP doesn't have faith in Watkins, he'll draft one no doubt. If he does, he probably doesn't draft a FS. Theres only one guy who knows the answer to that question, and he's not on this forum.

[cowboysforever]

Kevin Burnett plus Roy Williams get you Shaun Rogers.

Take out Roy and throw in a late 1 with Burnett, that works too.

Marinelli wants a faster D that can hit. Look at the reach for Ernie Sims.

Rogers, Fergie and Canty plus Spears, Hatcher coming in on nickel replacing Fergie....

I like that D with either Ware or Carpenter coming of the edge blitz or Ayodele in the middle.

Lotta beef with three above average pass rushers.

[cowboysforever]

This OL class looks pretty good on paper if you ask me.

A few juniors will juice it up nice too.

Either way we need a stud Guard to replace a broken down Rivera and some Tackle depth.

McQuistan may be a starter but given Colombo and Flozell, knee issues ya gotta carry some insurance.

This is why all things being equal trading up for Justin Blalock is plain smart.

You can have him replace Rivera but if two of your OL go down in any combo you have McQuistan, Proctor and best available with Blalock being able to play Tackle in a pinch.

This is one of the reasons Davin Joseph last year was a smart pick. Bright guy with talent for two spots in a pinch.

[Go Cowboys]

I think we go BPA throughout most of the draft, I could see us trading out of the first to pick up another one for next year.
We have alot more question marks then people think.

QB: Romo is looking great, but we still have to have a backup, Bledsoe will not be willing to stay on the team if he is guarnteed backup spot he wants to start. Matt Baker is the only other QB on the roster unless you want to count guys who once played QB with Skyler Green, Damarius Bilbo, Crayton. So I could see us taking a QB later int he draft.

RB: JJ is looking like a 1 demnsional back, he does what your supposed to do and no more, he hits the hole dead center he hits right were he is supposed to go, he doesn't look for the cutback to make amazing things happen unlike MBIII, that could be a coaching standpoint, BP could have told JJ that no matter what hit the whole and keep driving to get the tough yards and let MBIII worry bout making moves because if you look at JJ his a bigger guy then Marion so he doesn't have the elusivness. I doubt we take a RB and we probley wont take a FB who was the last FB we took? Jamar Martin in the 4th and he never player more then a year. So don't get your hopes up on Leonard, Parcells and Co. seem to like the hits Hoyte delivers and the pass catching ablities of Polite, and everyone talking about getting another Inside LB needs to remember that that is were Hoyte played in college so he can double and play emergency MLB if needed.

WR: Terry and TO are getting old and thats no secret, Crayton nobody knows if he is amazing because he has always been a #3 but everyone needs to remember that he was a 7th round pick and wasn't supposed to even make much impact ever. He has already supassed what was wanted when he was drafted, I think he could turn into a productive #1-2 reciver, Then there is Sam Hurd and Miles Austin, Austin is probley done after the year unless he continues to impress people on kickoff returns like lately, Hurd on the other hand has speed and size, he is that overlooked guy on the team that doesn't get in much so nobody knows much about him yet he is on the roster and hasn't been cut so that must say something is good about him.

TE: We should not even worry about

OL: This is our biggest concern area IMO. Columbo has been an great this year, but was it a fluke? Flozell is in his 10th year thats a long time for a Lineman, how much longer will his knees last? Rivera like Flozell has been around pretty long for a lineman, how much longer can he last? Fabini has been a waste of good money, Koiser has been a downgrade from Larry Allen (who once agian made the probowl if that means anything). Gurode and Johnson are both capable of starting for many teams in the league, possibly move Gurode back to guard if Rivera or Koiser leaves? McQuistan coches liked but hasnt seen much time, is he the succesor to Adams? This is a spot I could see us loading up on alot of this year in FA and Draft, think about round 3-5 seeing at least 1 lineman and maybe 2 picked in those rounds.

DL: Spears has been a bit incosistent, same with Canty, but this is also only their second year let them progress a bit and we will see(also its the 3-4 Lineman are supposed to take up blockers and work their way to the backfield while allowing outside backers like Ware to get sacks) Jason at Nose has been soild but Montavius Stanley has been on and off the roster un reliable and Jay Ratliff has been playing some NT is different packages, Hatcher has been a welcome surprise in talent to me, Kenyon Coleman may have seen his last year in Dallas this year. I could see a pick at Nose but other then that I don't see much coming of the D-Line.

LB: Ware is a lock, Ellis was looking great and got hurt so expect him to be back, Adoyle and James both probley have a starting spot next year. Fowler has been getting PT to progress, Singleton is probley done in Big D(too much money invested in a backup), Carp is a soild backup who will challenge Ellis for a spot, then there are a few other guys who could move into backup roles here or there. Overall maybe a late round pick with a comp pick may be used here.

DB: Henry has been spotty in coverage, Newman is still doing great, Glenn is getting old and may be done, Roy Williams is still a great player who gets knocked for coverage overly much, he does have a good amount of picks for a Strong Saftey who arent used as the cover guy in most defenses, Watkins seems to be impressing coaches with size, speed, coverage, all but tackling because of form, Davis was a Parcells favorite before and now he isnt, he may be gone maybe not, Abram Elam seems to be a guy who may stick as a backup to Roy for a while, Nate Jones the coaches seem to like because he can play Corner or FS(In House fix for backup FS already?), Reeves has been a productive Dime back who could take Glenn's role if he leaves this year. Possibly a early pick at Corner to push Henry to cover better especially if Glenn leaves so that we can provide a good nickle back at least.

Special teams: McBriar should be back, Gramatica might be gone for a younger guy, Austin as return man, Green comes back to camp to try to make it on returns or maybe 3rd back over Thompson if he doesn't recover from injuries.

THis is what I could see the draft looking like
Option #1 #2 #3
1st: BPA/CB/Trade
2nd: CB/BPA/OL
3rd: OL/OL/CB
4th: WR/DL/BPA
5th: QB/QB/WR
6th: DL/BPA/OL
7th: OL/OL/BPA

Just my thoughts

[cowboysforever]

Miles Austin is both bigger and faster than Sam Hurd.

Miles combine numbers where pretty impressive for a 6'3 -- 215 lber. Ran mid four four and also had some good short shuttle numbers.

Like Colston, wrong school and went to a team with old but great WR talent.

Hurd does however have the best hands on the team. Better than Crayton and that is saying something.

[CTCowboysFan]

I don't like Zbikowski one bit. He's not what we need and I think we could pick up somebody with good ball skills in the mid-rounds of the draft.

For the first round I would love to have a guy like Sidney Rice if TO does not return, which I really don't care that much either way but my preference would be that he doesn't come back and Bill Parcells does.

My other choice would be Justin Blalock because I feel like he could complete this offensive line.

My third choice would be a cornerback who is 6 foot tall or more who could develop into a good starter for us.

The final choice would be BPA or trade down.

-----
Here is my day 1 mock for the Boys right now.

1. WR Sidney Rice, South Carolina 6-4 205-If Terrell Owens leaves, the Dallas Cowboys will need a receiver with size and speed to come in. Sidney Rice is 6-4 205 pounds with 4.4 speed. With Terry Glenn and Patrick Crayton already weapons, Sidney Rice could complete this group of wide receivers and spread some youth on the offense as well. Terrell Owens produced well as a Cowboy on the field, but stats don't tell the whole story. TO had as many key drops as he did catches, and his mouth got in the way. Bill Parcells can deal with many different characters and he can also handle TO, he will just choose not to have him back. Bill knows the baggage is heavier than the actual talentand that's where he draws the line.

2. CB Daymeion Hughes, California 6-2 188-Here is a guy with good size and has that playmaker mentality. He also chips in on special teams and Parcells likes that.

3. OG Manuel Ramirez, Texas Tech 6-4 335-Ramirez has great size and is a great run blocker. Works hard and as we all know Parcells can work with you if you will work hard and Ramirez seems like a guy Parcells could make into a "player." Ramirez would complete the Cowboys offensive line if he could come in and start at right guard, or if Rivera returns push for playing time.

[dpl85]

I admittedly don't watch much of Tech but how good of a run blocker could Ramirez be or any OL from Tech as they pass the ball on almost every single play.

I like the idea of Sidney Rice if he comes out but it wouldn't really address our biggest need and it would probably take him at least 2 years to really develop.

I don't like the idea of drafting a CB on the first day unless it's with the idea of moving him to FS. I think we're set at CB for the next several years, I think AG has at least 3-4 good years left in his tank. He's smart and takes care of his body, he could be a little like Darrell Green at least in terms of longevity.

Damn there's no trash talk from either side during Dallas Philly week, must be the Christmas/Holiday spirit. :lol:

[CTCowboysFan]

I admittedly don't watch much of Tech but how good of a run blocker could Ramirez be or any OL from Tech as they pass the ball on almost every single play.

I like the idea of Sidney Rice if he comes out but it wouldn't really address our biggest need and it would probably take him at least 2 years to really develop.

I don't like the idea of drafting a CB on the first day unless it's with the idea of moving him to FS. I think we're set at CB for the next several years, I think AG has at least 3-4 good years left in his tank. He's smart and takes care of his body, he could be a little like Darrell Green at least in terms of longevity.

Damn there's no trash talk from either side during Dallas Philly week, must be the Christmas/Holiday spirit. :lol:

Well when they (Texas Tech) do run it, Shannon Woods is averaging 6.1 yards per carry so they are doing their job when he runs it. Also at least he is gaining experience in pass blocking which is said to be his weak point so he's probably getting better, and he's got great size and strength, the rest is fundementals which can be taught.

I also don't see how you can say Sidney Rice wouldn't fill a big need if we lose Terrell Owens? And I doubt it would take two to three years to develop him, I really don't understand that.

At FS I want Watkins! He will be fine...if anything Roy Williams is the liability in coverage. I think in the long run Parcells likes Watkins, and is working on developing him. A young cornerback could prepare us for the future while also providing much needed depth as Henry is wildly inconsistent and if someone like Newman were to get injured it would be BIG to have someone who could fill in behind him.

I heard Aaron Glenn wants to play 3-4 more years and that's great especially since he isn't playing every down I am sure he can, at corner as long as you don't lose a step you can play til your 40 but that still doesn't mean the Cowboys shouldn't add youth.

I noticed too that there is no trash talking, maybe everyone is waiting until Christmas Eve.

[Staubach12]

Kevin Burnett plus Roy Williams get you Shaun Rogers.

Take out Roy and throw in a late 1 with Burnett, that works too.

Marinelli wants a faster D that can hit. Look at the reach for Ernie Sims.

Rogers, Fergie and Canty plus Spears, Hatcher coming in on nickel replacing Fergie....

I like that D with either Ware or Carpenter coming of the edge blitz or Ayodele in the middle.

Lotta beef with three above average pass rushers.

Ha! Are you kidding me? Take Roy out and put in who? Abram Elam? Start Watkins and Davis? No way that happens. When we already have problems at one safety, we won't take away the one good one we have. Roy is the only starter to the pro bowl we have. That idea is an absolute joke. Even if we throw in the first, we need that unless we make some big moves in FA. Plus, the cap wuld make it near impossible to trade Rogers.

[Staubach12]

If I had my way, we go Ken Hamlin and Vince Manuwai in FA. That'll take care iof our two biggest needs before the draft even starts. Then we can trade down so we'll have two firsts next year, take Craig Davis, and then BPA from then on.

[cowboysforever]

Staubach, if I thought Burnett plus Roy Williams get Rogers I would not hesitate.

Your evaluating Roy as thje 'only Pro Bowler' is really a joke. Roy is a perfect example of what is wrong with the voting. His best year was behind Darren Woodson and is living off his good PR and United Way commercials.

To boot, we have three SS who can play. Laugh all you want at Elam but he is a superior athlete that was recruited by the U, Florida State and Florida. Parrish and Davis are also SS.

We are way over loaded at SS and trading depth, particularly if people over value them, is a great way of improving the team.

Roy for a first, or a marquee DT, is a done deal for anyone with a football brain.

Like I said, Marinelli wants out of Rogers and all he wants is equal value back.

Burnett and Roy is value and helps both teams immediately and immensely.

[cowboysforever]

If I had my way, we go Ken Hamlin and Vince Manuwai in FA. That'll take care iof our two biggest needs before the draft even starts. Then we can trade down so we'll have two firsts next year, take Craig Davis, and then BPA from then on.

While I like the idea it leaves us without something we most need to be an elite D -- a pass rush up the middle.

But combine that with a NT that can push in the pass rush and yeah -- trade a 2007 first for a first and second in 2008. 2008 draft will be something to behold.

[Paul]

If I had my way, we go Ken Hamlin and Vince Manuwai in FA. That'll take care iof our two biggest needs before the draft even starts. Then we can trade down so we'll have two firsts next year, take Craig Davis, and then BPA from then on.

On the surface C. Davis looks great, 6-2 215lbs and 4.45 speed. Now I admit I haven't seen many of his games, but Scott writes that he shies away from contact and he wouldn't go into traffic for a catch. Now he also said Colombo is garbage so he could be wrong. So what can you tell us about him?

[Paul]

So who are rooting for today in the Giants vs. Saints game?

[duckseason]

So who are we rooting for today in the Giants vs. Saints game?
Giants. We need the Saints to lose in order to be in position for the #2 seed.

[Staubach12]

If I had my way, we go Ken Hamlin and Vince Manuwai in FA. That'll take care iof our two biggest needs before the draft even starts. Then we can trade down so we'll have two firsts next year, take Craig Davis, and then BPA from then on.

On the surface C. Davis looks great, 6-2 215lbs and 4.45 speed. Now I admit I haven't seen many of his games, but Scott writes that he shies away from contact and he wouldn't go into traffic for a catch. Now he also said Colombo is garbage so he could be wrong. So what can you tell us about him?

I'm not going to lie, I'm an LSU fan. So, I may be a bit biased but I've seen him a lot. I like him because he's explosive. We've got a young guy who's got good hands and quickness in Hurd, but he's not explosive. He can make the play and break it on a long pass or make a 5 yard gain into a 30 yard gain. He's also got good size, he's a good blocker and he's been fairly productive. I think the reason he hasn't been extremely productive is he's playing with Bowe. Bowe is only better because he's more polished. At times Davis will shy away from contact, but I think that that may just be a result of him not being extremely polished. Or not. That may be a concern. That's pointed out a lot because it's one of his only weaknesses. Almost like Leinart last year. His arm strength was average so everyone pointed that out. He was over-evaluated. About him not being polished won't need him to be great imediately, so he can learn for a year or two. His skill set comliments Hurd perfectly, so then we have our future at WR.

[Staubach12]

Staubach, if I thought Burnett plus Roy Williams get Rogers I would not hesitate.

Your evaluating Roy as thje 'only Pro Bowler' is really a joke. Roy is a perfect example of what is wrong with the voting. His best year was behind Darren Woodson and is living off his good PR and United Way commercials.

To boot, we have three SS who can play. Laugh all you want at Elam but he is a superior athlete that was recruited by the U, Florida State and Florida. Parrish and Davis are also SS.

We are way over loaded at SS and trading depth, particularly if people over value them, is a great way of improving the team.

Roy for a first, or a marquee DT, is a done deal for anyone with a football brain.

Like I said, Marinelli wants out of Rogers and all he wants is equal value back.

Burnett and Roy is value and helps both teams immediately and immensely.

Please, turn off Madden and join the rest of us in reality. Are you kidding me? Yeah, we can just stick in Elam and he'll do just as well as Roy, right? Roght? No. Sorry, that's just not going to happen.

[leroyisgod]

Kevin Burnett plus Roy Williams get you Shaun Rogers.

Take out Roy and throw in a late 1 with Burnett, that works too.

Marinelli wants a faster D that can hit. Look at the reach for Ernie Sims.

Rogers, Fergie and Canty plus Spears, Hatcher coming in on nickel replacing Fergie....

I like that D with either Ware or Carpenter coming of the edge blitz or Ayodele in the middle.

Lotta beef with three above average pass rushers.

Ha! Are you kidding me? Take Roy out and put in who? Abram Elam? Start Watkins and Davis? No way that happens. When we already have problems at one safety, we won't take away the one good one we have. Roy is the only starter to the pro bowl we have. That idea is an absolute joke. Even if we throw in the first, we need that unless we make some big moves in FA. Plus, the cap wuld make it near impossible to trade Rogers.

I have to agree with you here, trading RW is a very bad idea. We need Watkins to develop or get another ball hawking S to support the secondary. Once we do that, RW can play closer to the line of scrimmage again.

[cowboysforever]

Wow, lotta love for RW.

Hard for us to admit he is a bust as a top ten pick.

I guess that smile and the United Way commercials are too much to accept fact.

With that said, let me repeat, I am not saying RW is worse than Davis or Elam. I am saying Elam or Davis can be adequate SS if it means a DT of Rogers caliber who can also create pressure.

Roy is a good player but just that.

This sounds like the Eli lovers on the Giants board. Not much reasoning with them either. Hard to admit when a 'superstar' is just average.

[cowboysforever]

Kevin Burnett plus Roy Williams get you Shaun Rogers.

Take out Roy and throw in a late 1 with Burnett, that works too.

Marinelli wants a faster D that can hit. Look at the reach for Ernie Sims.

Rogers, Fergie and Canty plus Spears, Hatcher coming in on nickel replacing Fergie....

I like that D with either Ware or Carpenter coming of the edge blitz or Ayodele in the middle.

Lotta beef with three above average pass rushers.

Ha! Are you kidding me? Take Roy out and put in who? Abram Elam? Start Watkins and Davis? No way that happens. When we already have problems at one safety, we won't take away the one good one we have. Roy is the only starter to the pro bowl we have. That idea is an absolute joke. Even if we throw in the first, we need that unless we make some big moves in FA. Plus, the cap wuld make it near impossible to trade Rogers.

I have to agree with you here, trading RW is a very bad idea. We need Watkins to develop or get another ball hawking S to support the secondary. Once we do that, RW can play closer to the line of scrimmage again.

Cap Room? Their is tons of cap room for every team in the NFL this year. That is a made up reason for not pursuing him.

Again, Burnett and Roy Williams for a dominant NT that can rush the passer is a SLAM DUNK.

Rogers. Book it as a legit rumor that he is shopped.

[Go Cowboys]

Kevin Burnett plus Roy Williams get you Shaun Rogers.

Take out Roy and throw in a late 1 with Burnett, that works too.

Marinelli wants a faster D that can hit. Look at the reach for Ernie Sims.

Rogers, Fergie and Canty plus Spears, Hatcher coming in on nickel replacing Fergie....

I like that D with either Ware or Carpenter coming of the edge blitz or Ayodele in the middle.

Lotta beef with three above average pass rushers.

Ha! Are you kidding me? Take Roy out and put in who? Abram Elam? Start Watkins and Davis? No way that happens. When we already have problems at one safety, we won't take away the one good one we have. Roy is the only starter to the pro bowl we have. That idea is an absolute joke. Even if we throw in the first, we need that unless we make some big moves in FA. Plus, the cap wuld make it near impossible to trade Rogers.

I have to agree with you here, trading RW is a very bad idea. We need Watkins to develop or get another ball hawking S to support the secondary. Once we do that, RW can play closer to the line of scrimmage again.

Cap Room? Their is tons of cap room for every team in the NFL this year. That is a made up reason for not pursuing him.

Again, Burnett and Roy Williams for a dominant NT that can rush the passer is a SLAM DUNK.

Rogers. Book it as a legit rumor that he is shopped.

Your crazy.
First why would we trade the face of our D? Roy is a very good player maybe not Hall of Famer yet but what is Shaun Rogers? A big Lineman who has never played in the 3-4, so we would be trading Roy and a guy who hasn't been playing much but we spent a second rounder on for a guy who has never played in the 3-4.

Until you can show me that Rogers would be more dominant then RW and Burnett on Special Teams then don't keep saying it would happen.

Ya every team would take Roy, does that not tell you that your completely wrong? If so many people want him then he obviously is very good.

[Paul]

Go Cowboys meet Cowboysforever, he's our resident fantasizer of ridiculous ideas. He's been trying to get rid of Roy for a weeks now, and we don't know why. He's also been trying to trade Bradie James for some reason.

[Go Cowboys]

Go Cowboys meet Cowboysforever, he's our resident fantasizer of ridiculous ideas. He's been trying to get rid of Roy for a weeks now, and we don't know why. He's also been trying to trade Bradie James for some reason.
Haha

I figure he is an Eagles fan and just comes on here to try and trash talk as a cowboys fan

[LSUALUM99]

Stop talking about trading for S. Rogers or trading away Roy Williams (or in some cases both).

They both just signed big deals with large signing bonuses. YOU CANNOT TRADE A PLAYER AFTER THEY DO THAT for at least a couple of years. The cap hit is tremendous.

We'd take a 8 million dollar cap hit for Roy Williams. That's RE-TAR-DED.

[Staubach12]

Cowboysforever reminds me a little bit too much of TexMex...

[Staubach12]

Stop talking about trading for S. Rogers or trading away Roy Williams (or in some cases both).

They both just signed big deals with large signing bonuses. YOU CANNOT TRADE A PLAYER AFTER THEY DO THAT for at least a couple of years. The cap hit is tremendous.

We'd take a 8 million dollar cap hit for Roy Williams. That's RE-TAR-DED.

Thank you. Conversation over.

[steelcrew43]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f212/steelcrew43/boweandnelson.jpg

[Staubach12]

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f212/steelcrew43/boweandnelson.jpg

Saweet!

[thule]

Cowboysforever reminds me a little bit too much of TexMex...

I don't know...TexMex seemed to have atleast some common sense regaurding the salary cap. This guy reminds me alot of Trojan14. He was ahead of your time...but if you ever read the first couple pages on the old topic...you would have saw him in his prime.

[Staubach12]

Good point. He just has a fetish for Rogers like Mex had one for White.

[thule]

Good point. He just has a fetish for Rogers like Mex had one for White.

I wouldn't say its as much one player is it is madden like thoughts. I mena Trojan garuntted that we would draft a cb no matter what...he also loved the idea of bringing in mike williams. He was so over the top he makes the madden fan seem knowledgeable.

[Number-94]

Know what hurts right now?

Merriman now has twice as many sacks as Ware.
But Ware does have twice as many touchdowns.

[Staubach12]

Did anyone hear BP talk about Hatcher in his press conference. It makes me hopeful. He makes it sound like Hatcher could be pretty good player, and Hatcher can also rush the passer. The only thing is, BP is mad at him because he had to go away for a day because his wife had a baby. :lol:

[pocketaces]

hey where is everybody? biggest game of the year and not much talk. wheres d-unit been? IF we win this game but dont do much in the playoffs would you consider this a good year? im going boys 31-24 but the way this year has been i wouldnt be suprised if the eagles beat us but i sure would be dissapointed. the fact this is their 3rd road game in a row and were at home should be two big advantages for us, not to mention its for the division and a revenge game. go boys bring home the east title :D :D

[CTCowboysFan]

Yeah it is Christmas though so a lot of poeple are probably out with family. I haven't seen D-Unit on here in probably a week or more so I dunno.

Anyways I am ready for today. I can't wait. This DIVISION IS OURS!! It's about time Dallas finishes on top, today is the day we do it.

Here are my keys to the game

**Shut down Brian Westbrook, expecially limit his catches out of the backfield.**

**Contain Jeff Garcia from moving outside of the pocket.**

**Somebody cover the FB.**

**Establish the run, ware down Eagles defense.**

**Get Romo outside the pocket and open up big plays.**

*Pass Protect......Eagles will be coming hard.**

---

a side note, please use Barber more than JJ today......even if JJ starts, get Barber involved.

[cowboysforever]

You guys crack me up with your comments. Too much ESPN thinking, a few points...

1. What is the money difference between taking a Roy cap hit if traded but getting the benefit of a Detroit cap hit on Rogers???? Do some homework, Rogers contract and signing bonus are bigger than Roy.

2. What do I care if Roy is the face of the franchise when he is constantly being burned?

3. What do I care more for, a great DT who is a Pro Bowler and described by BP as the best tackle in football OR a SS that is repacable, cheaply internally or through FA.

4 last I check Pro Bowl DT are harder to find than SS with poor coverage skills but anyway.

5. It ain't Madden guyz. It is much more possible than getting Nelson 25-32 and a much bigger impact on D.

6. Real issue is not whether Cowboys make a deal like this but whether Detroit is crazy enuff to let go a stud DT b/c they have a nutty vindictive coach who wants small fast guys. I think we have talent and depth on D to please Marinelli.

7. I think it crazier to think about trading up for Nelson than trading for a player. Trading up in a draft is the single most expensive way to get value in the NFL. Go ask an GM.

Not crazy at all, in fact pretty smart.

[pocketaces]

You guys crack me up with your comments. Too much ESPN thinking, a few points...

1. What is the money difference between taking a Roy cap hit if traded but getting the benefit of a Detroit cap hit on Rogers???? Do some homework, Rogers contract and signing bonus are bigger than Roy.

2. What do I care if Roy is the face of the franchise when he is constantly being burned?

3. What do I care more for, a great DT who is a Pro Bowler and described by BP as the best tackle in football OR a SS that is repacable, cheaply internally or through FA.

4 last I check Pro Bowl DT are harder to find than SS with poor coverage skills but anyway.

5. It ain't Madden guyz. It is much more possible than getting Nelson 25-32 and a much bigger impact on D.

6. Real issue is not whether Cowboys make a deal like this but whether Detroit is crazy enuff to let go a stud DT b/c they have a nutty vindictive coach who wants small fast guys. I think we have talent and depth on D to please Marinelli.

7. I think it crazier to think about trading up for Nelson than trading for a player. Trading up in a draft is the single most expensive way to get value in the NFL. Go ask an GM.

Not crazy at all, in fact pretty smart.

you can say it hope it pray for it anything you want...it will never happen. so lets change the subject and let that one die.

[cowboysforever]

Another Roy Williams special.

Who was All Pro Roy covering there?

Schobel TD.

He really is a horrid Safety. Just horrid.

[cowboysforever]

You guys crack me up with your comments. Too much ESPN thinking, a few points...

1. What is the money difference between taking a Roy cap hit if traded but getting the benefit of a Detroit cap hit on Rogers???? Do some homework, Rogers contract and signing bonus are bigger than Roy.

2. What do I care if Roy is the face of the franchise when he is constantly being burned?

3. What do I care more for, a great DT who is a Pro Bowler and described by BP as the best tackle in football OR a SS that is repacable, cheaply internally or through FA.

4 last I check Pro Bowl DT are harder to find than SS with poor coverage skills but anyway.

5. It ain't Madden guyz. It is much more possible than getting Nelson 25-32 and a much bigger impact on D.

6. Real issue is not whether Cowboys make a deal like this but whether Detroit is crazy enuff to let go a stud DT b/c they have a nutty vindictive coach who wants small fast guys. I think we have talent and depth on D to please Marinelli.

7. I think it crazier to think about trading up for Nelson than trading for a player. Trading up in a draft is the single most expensive way to get value in the NFL. Go ask an GM.

Not crazy at all, in fact pretty smart.

you can say it hope it pray for it anything you want...it will never happen. so lets change the subject and let that one die.

Move on to what? Hope and pray for a safety in the draft?

What the F is the difference?

[cowboysforever]

Back up TE schooling Roy 'All Pro' Williams.

Horrid Garcia throw. Yuck.

[cowboysforever]

What a play by Romo.

Horrid play calling for the Cowboys so far.

Both sides of ball.

[CTCowboysFan]

My god our defense blows balls.

[cowboysforever]

Our D is horrid because we have a) no pass rush, b) Roy can't cover and c) our ILB are too slow to cover.

But Roy Williams and Bradie James are the face of the franchise haven't ya heard...... don't change a thing say the football experts on this board.

Funny to stare at the same thing week in and week out and have allegedly smart fans defending the achilles heel of this D.

[CTCowboysFan]

ooooo looks like Tony Romo and Carrie Underwood have a little somethin somethin :D

[cowboysforever]

ooooo looks like Tony Romo and Carrie Underwood have a little somethin somethin :D

Wow, if I where a chick I might actually be interested.

This kid is a Pro Bowl QB on the Cowboys.

What he can get in Dallas alone would make that chick look horrid.

[CTCowboysFan]

ooooo looks like Tony Romo and Carrie Underwood have a little somethin somethin :D

Wow, if I where a chick I might actually be interested.

This kid is a Pro Bowl QB on the Cowboys.

What he can get in Dallas alone would make that chick look horrid.

Can't say I wouldn't be, lol.....

TO gettin in the action there with a TD.

Jones looks good today. Seems to have a burst.

Defense is getting no rush whatsoever AGAIN. But we are in the game nonetheless.

[pocketaces]

man our pass rush is so bad. i think we should trade roy,ware and bradie for merriman. or maybe canty, ware and williams for jason taylor. you think that would work forevercowboys?

[cowboysforever]

My god our defense blows balls.

Nice to see Bradie James, the face of our D, let the RB catch and stay inbound.

Bradie and Williams are Major liabilities in any passing situation.

Really nice guys but both basically suck wind unless playing two yards from the line.

13 points and getting the ball back to start the second half.

Let me not mention an earlier 3rd down run by Westbrook where Bradie was out run to the corner with a 5 yard lead.

Bradie and Roy ... Yuck.

[pocketaces]

you guys realize if we wind up losing this game it will be the third big game weve lost at home. giants, saints and the eagles. how bad would that be. our o-line and d-line are just getting abused. maybe we can trade some of them :roll:

[cowboysforever]

man our pass rush is so bad. i think we should trade roy,ware and bradie for merriman. or maybe canty, ware and williams for jason taylor. you think that would work forevercowboys?

Pocket, you can joke all you want but the proof is in the performance.

Can it get any worse in terms of defending the middle of the field????

[pocketaces]

no but trading them isnt going to happen unless you can convince jerry into hiring you as the g.m. youve got just as much of a chance as your scenaro. do we need upgrades? of course. we are being exposed right now in many areas, but they arent getting traded.

[cowboysforever]

Need a DT to pressure the pocket. Nearly 66 percent of Merriman's sacks come from pocket pressure with the QB rolling to his lanes.

Need ILB that can run. Period. Bradie is too slow -- don't care how nice he is.

Need a SS or FS with coverage skills. Maybe Watkins, would be great.

Need Roy to lose weight and play faster -- that or trade his fat arrogant arse as I propose.

[cowboysforever]

Well, I am not Jerry Botox Jones so ....

But this does prove Jerry is a horrid GM and is not qualified to help BP.

BP is many things but not a good talent evaluator when in the blind, he also over reaches for 'his guys.'

Why ya think he has issues everywhere else?

[cowboysforever]

If the worst TE and RB in the league played 16 games v this D, they would shatter every passing record in the books.

Not 1 punt yet.Yuck.

[cowboysforever]

Can we all agree Marco Rivera is horrendous and needs to be replaced?

[cowboysforever]

Another horrid TO drop too.

Every guy I mention needs to find new employment IMHO.

Not because they make mistakes but because they repeatedly do.

Marco
Julius
James
Williams
Davis
TO

[pocketaces]

this has been the worst rollercoaster ride of any season i can remember. everything in front of us and to lose game after game at home. just frustrating as hell. :evil: :evil:

[cowboysforever]

It is official, Cowboys are above average.

152 rushing yards versus those fantastic run stuffing ILBs.

[cowboysforever]

Played like crap at home this season.

Maybe 1 win in the playoffs.

Team has lots of holes defensively, starting with the ILB and the Pass Rush.

[cowboysforever]

Slowwwwwwwwwwww Defense.

Garcia 1st Down and our best player is down.

What bothers me most about this game is how right I am about the need for big change.

BP's D needs an overhaul up the middle.

[Paul]

Are you having a argument with yourself or something. Calm down.

[cowboysforever]

If you notice too all the big runs get the D moving left or right and then accelerate into a crease created versus the SLOW ILBs who get no penetration.

All the defenders of our big slow players need to step and come to Jesus.

I think they had a stat that the Cowboys were 32nd in the league in D plays for minus yards.

Think about it.

[cowboysforever]

Maybe if I point out the obvious to you guys you may turn around your opinions.

Unfortunately, I have to repeat it cuz you guys are know-it-all stubborn guys.

Two blow out losses at home in December where the Defense looks very slow, gets no pressure and gives up big plays to TEs and RBs.

I am so correct I scare myself.

[cowboysforever]

I will say this in defense of the players -- the Offensive game plan was horrendous.

Have the Cowboys thrown 1 deep in or post pattern all game?

The three runs to nowhere hurt too.

TO drop was bad.

Terry Glenn drops bad.

Marco Rivera abused again.

[cowboysforever]

BP had an awful game plan today.

O and D.

Players should be ashamed too.

This is like the 3rd time humiliated on NBC THIS YEAR.

We seem to play better on the road anyway so blessing in disguise it seems.

[cowboysforever]

Great news, Watkins did not get burned today. DeMarcus has .5 more sacks this year. Roy only gave up 1 TD.

2-4 Division. 4-3 at home. Another horrid showing at home with something to prove. We are so average.

Free GM advice to Botox Jones. Read my posts.

[Number-94]

Great news, Watkins did not get burned today. DeMarcus has .5 more sacks this year. Roy only gave up 1 TD.

2-4 Division. 4-3 at home. Another horrid showing at home with something to prove. We are so average.

Free GM advice to Botox Jones. Read my posts.

Maybe against the saints. :?

EDIT: Reread and and noticed you might be talking about the game. Not the year.

[Number-94]

Our pass rush sucks. We need a NT and atleast one DE who can collapse the pocket. I see us getting beat worse then Giants did last year in the playoffs.

Can't even watch the Jets game....scared of the half time show.

[cowboysforever]

We played better in philly with dredslow.

In fact, much better on the road this year overall.

Wonder if the younger guyz are too busy with personal crap or trying to be posers to their ladies.

Maybe the road and no poontang is the trick

[cowboysforever]

Ya'll think BP is going safety?

I say DE or LB to rush the passer in this draft.

Ellis is sorely missed too.

[Number-94]

Did anyone notice on Ware's sack he actually......dare I say it.....went inside! Least he's trying some new moves, about time he trys something other than a bull rush or just plain run around you.

[cowboysforever]

Did anyone notice on Ware's sack he actually......dare I say it.....went inside! Least he's trying some new moves, about time he trys something other than a bull rush or just plain run around you.

Yeah that was the first technique sack I have seen him make in two years.

[DSlay4]

Cowboys Draft Wishlist:

1. Dwayne Bowe
2. Buster Davis
3. Brandon Meriweather
4. Tyrone Moss

We desperately need some LB's with BALLS. I don't even care that there slow, it's that there slow and cant get off blocks.

TO sucks at life

Pat Watkins sucks at life

and Julius Jones sucks at life

[Paul]

D-Unit? Ward? LSU? Pokeys? CT? Help

[cowboysforever]

D-Unit? Ward? LSU? Pokeys? CT? Help

Let me try ... Roy is great. Bradie is the leader. The DE are young. A trade for talent is impossible. The 3-4 requires painfully slow SS and ILB.

I am totally dumb to think otherwise.

[cowboysforever]

D-Unit? Ward? LSU? Pokeys? CT? Help

Let me try ... Roy is great. Bradie is the leader. The DE are young. A trade for talent is impossible. The 3-4 requires painfully slow SS and ILB.

I am totally dumb to think otherwise.

1 more ... TO is great. He does not suck the life out of the O when he drops big passes. All is great.

[TheFan0520]

Hello all. First-time poster, long-time reader. Anyway, the Cowboys are who we thought they were. Overachieved. Not a Super Bowl contender. Probably will get knocked out of the first round. The defense is pathetic. The coaching is pathetic. The offensive line is pathetic. It's a miracle they even got this far with such a flawed team. Bill Parcells is probably on his way out. Boy does this team need HELP!