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View Full Version : Paul Oliver/ any chance?


Burns336
05-17-2007, 05:23 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/2008/earlylook.html

Scott has him on his list for top ten seniors that would have potentially had great seasons next year, the only problem is ESPN is reporting Oliver is academically ineligible for the upcoming season and will enter the supplemental draft this summer.

Im not sure how the supplemental draft actually works or if the cowboys even have an opportunity to choose a player in it, but maybe all hope is not lost for taking a CB with great potential this year after all.

Any chance at us grabbing this guy?

It is worth noting that Oliver is one of the few who actually contained calvin johnson last year holding him to 2 catches for 13 yards.

Achilles33
05-17-2007, 06:29 PM
No. Don't waste a pick for next year. We already have our CB project with potential, Courtney Brown. The supplemental draft takes whatever pick you spend on the player (1st, 2nd, 3rd or whatever round), and takes that pick from you in next year's real draft.

Burns336
05-17-2007, 06:40 PM
He need a RB and WR next year, not a CB. Courtney Brown, remember the name.

Well actually this is for the supplemental draft this summer, but I appreciate a pathetic effort by you to derail my thread. Now crawl back into your cave and dont come out until you have permission.

Id rather add to the competition at CB instead of shying away from it. This is a player who's early projection was to be in the first round of the '08 draft. If we could bring a guy like this in to battle with some 7th rounders, I think you might be the only person who has a problem with that.

Achilles33
05-17-2007, 06:41 PM
Refresh the page, I edited it, I didn't read the supplemental draft part.

ThaU4Life
05-17-2007, 06:43 PM
This guy is a great player, no question i'de offer our 2nd rounder for him, at 6' 200lbs, rumor is he can run a 4.3 40.He possibly would be the 1st CB selected in next years draft.(atleast top 3)

Burns336
05-17-2007, 06:44 PM
No. Don't waste a pick for next year. We already have our CB project with potential, Courtney Brown. The supplemental draft takes whatever pick you spend on the player (1st, 2nd, 3rd or whatever round), and takes that pick from you in next year's real draft.

Well he apprently has first round talent, why wait till next year to grab that?

I mean according to your theory, we are going to win the SB this year no questions asked, so why not give up the 32nd pick in the first round to take a flyer on this guy. We would still have that potentially high browns draft pick for someone else early?

Burns336
05-17-2007, 06:45 PM
Refresh the page, I edited it, I didn't read the supplemental draft part.

Maybe you'll learn a lesson from that and read post's all the way through next time before you try to argue with someone.

Burns336
05-17-2007, 07:04 PM
from yahoo sports .... "Paul Oliver, CB, Georgia Oliver is an ideal-sized defender who combines terrific man coverage and ball skills. He was tempted to declare early, but his decision to return for a senior campaign should pay off with him being the top-rated senior cornerback. He has the ability to turn and run with most receivers, and his long arms and height (6 feet) keep taller receivers from being able to push him around or out-jump him."

from Sporting news...

"Cornerback

1. Antoine Cason, Arizona
2. Malcolm Jenkins, Ohio State
3. Brandon Flowers, Virginia Tech
4. Aqib Talib, Kansas
5. Paul Oliver, Georgia

The breakdown: How good is this group? All five guys have NFL first-round potential. Jenkins and Oliver are big, physical cover guys who can run, and Cason is the complete package: lock-down coverage, strong run support."

and finally Todd McShay's Top 10 for next year

"6. Paul Oliver, CB, Georgia
Oliver is one of the most underrated prospects in the 2008 class right now. This 6-foot, 205-pound cornerback impressed me with his improved coverage skills during the second half of the 2006 season, including a tremendous effort versus former Georgia Tech star WR Calvin Johnson (Lions, No. 2 overall). Don't be surprised if Oliver emerges as a top-10 pick a year from now."


The one thing that sticks out to me is that everyone mentions his physical style of play which is crucial for CB's in the Phillips 3-4 because of the jam and rerouting that is required of them at the line.

This could be a guy who would actually fit in quite nicely with this particular defense, that being said, i doubt we even take a look at this guy. :(

fryman
05-17-2007, 07:36 PM
The Bengals only gave up a 3rd for Ahmad Brooks. If it would mean just losing a 3rd I would definitely be for that.

With that said I don't think it would be very likely that we take him.

robert_in_bigd
05-18-2007, 08:53 AM
I think you get serious discount in the Supplemental to actual talent received. 2nd or 3rd, sure. First no.

Ahmad Brooks is a great example. First round talent no doubt but slipped to the third and if not for the Team Jail Time I think he would have kept going to the 4th or 5th.

I can see academically ineligible freshmen or sophmore but Junior? Common dog you really gotta be a jerk-off to fail after riding that bike for 3 years.

nrcirc
05-18-2007, 10:20 AM
CJ only have 2 for 13 yards against him. Bad grades is not a issue to me. I will use a 5th and even a 4th to get him

BX
05-18-2007, 12:42 PM
I'd risk a third.

nrcirc
05-18-2007, 12:49 PM
I'd risk a third.

I don't see a discount if we use a third.

robert_in_bigd
05-18-2007, 01:13 PM
Funny because last year I was a little surprised we did not take Ahmad Brooks in the Sup. He was an Al Groh guy so Parcells definately has the in there. Come to think of it maybe that is why we did not take him. He was a Parcells prototype ILB 6'4 260.

LSUALUM99
05-18-2007, 01:37 PM
He'd be worth using a 3rd for sure. A second or first is a bit risky for a guy that might have enough off the field issues to make him un-reliable.

Burns336
05-18-2007, 01:49 PM
I'd definately use a 3rd, and I would consider a 2nd, but only because we have 2 firsts next year anyways.

mat33
05-18-2007, 01:56 PM
Everyone was begging for a DB early in this years draft, I don't get why anyone would object to spending a 2nd rounder on a player of his quality. And as Burns336 states we would still have 2 1st rounders next year.

reigle9
05-18-2007, 02:08 PM
I think there's virtually no chance we could get him even if we wanted to. Our pick is too deep, one of the first two groups would grab him before us.

Burns336
05-18-2007, 02:27 PM
He'd be worth using a 3rd for sure. A second or first is a bit risky for a guy that might have enough off the field issues to make him un-reliable.

Yeah, he actually hasn't had any off the field issues such as drugs or arrests. He somehow managed to get grades so bad in a football friendly school that they deemed him ineligible.

thule
05-18-2007, 04:33 PM
I would just like to say...he is getting so hyped from shutting down Calvin...but he also got lit up by Mecheam. seven passes for 98 yards and a TD. But than he shut down Sidney Rice too.

No doubting his talent. His football field intellegence and ability to breakdown a playbook scare me. College isn't that hard for a top football player...but if he has the instincts to play that is more important.

As far as likeliness to happen I don't see it. Todd Archer says it best..the Cowboys won't take Oliver in the supplemental draft. He thinks they value their picks too much to give up an early one in next year's draft.

Macarthur
05-18-2007, 04:55 PM
I would just like to say...he is getting so hyped from shutting down Calvin...but he also got lit up by Mecheam. seven passes for 98 yards and a TD. But than he shut down Sidney Rice too.

No doubting his talent. His football field intellegence and ability to breakdown a playbook scare me. College isn't that hard for a top football player...but if he has the instincts to play that is more important.

As far as likeliness to happen I don't see it. Todd Archer says it best..the Cowboys won't take Oliver in the supplemental draft. He thinks they value their picks too much to give up an early one in next year's draft.

I guess I don't understand this.

If the guy is certainly a first rounder, why not get him a year early?! I just don't understand the comment, "they value their picks too much to give up an early one..." If your scouts think this guy is a first rounder then freaking take the guy. Plus, you get the added benefit of getting him a year early.

robert_in_bigd
05-18-2007, 10:55 PM
I guess I don't understand this.

If the guy is certainly a first rounder, why not get him a year early?! I just don't understand the comment, "they value their picks too much to give up an early one..." If your scouts think this guy is a first rounder then freaking take the guy. Plus, you get the added benefit of getting him a year early.

I agree that Archer's line of reasoning (if it reflects Valley Ranch's) is stupid.

Why would you not use a 3rd rounder next year to get a player who is arguably would have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder this year?

Why not get him one year younger to teach him faster?

Rather have a dollar today than a dollar a year from now.

robert_in_bigd
05-18-2007, 10:57 PM
Everyone was begging for a DB early in this years draft, I don't get why anyone would object to spending a 2nd rounder on a player of his quality. And as Burns336 states we would still have 2 1st rounders next year.


You do have to be real concerned over a guy who passed up the draft in 2007 to stay in school who then proceeds to flunk taking a Sociology/PE/Ethnic Studies Major.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
05-19-2007, 01:46 AM
I say third round (i dont think he would be available anyway), you have to do it.

Second round...makes me a little nervous. I would still do it, though.

No way on the first round.

D-Unit
05-19-2007, 02:00 AM
I want this guy! I say we do it for a second round pick! Easy. We'll probably be picking at the end of the second round, so hell ya!

We passed on Eric Wright this year and I don't think Wright is as good. Heck... we've wasted 2nd rounders before... At least this would be interesting. :D

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/football/ncaa/05/17/oliver.georgia.ap/t1_oliver.jpg

http://sundaymorningqb.com/images/admin/Paul_Oliver.jpg

http://onlineathens.com/images/091306/16831_223.jpg

http://www.onlineathens.com/images/112606/18259_223.jpg

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2006-10/26140282.jpg

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/sports/061112/auburn2.jpg

Im_a_Romosexual
05-19-2007, 10:41 AM
I'd be iffy on a 2nd, but I'd do it for a 3rd

LSUALUM99
05-19-2007, 10:58 AM
I was probably the most vocal about wanting a CB in this year's first couple of picks. The difference is that this guy has question marks. The supplemental draft is so iffy because you never know what position that pick will be in the following draft. It's not like a first rounder is the same as another first rounder. A guy that is a Steal at 32 is a HUGE reach at 7, etc. I would always go 1 round later in the supplemental than what I would for the same guy in the following draft. So to me, he's worth no better than a 2nd round pick, even if he's spotless. However, due to his inability to make the grades he has question marks. Question marks drop you a round typically (see Eric Wright) so he's worth a 3rd rounder in the supplemental draft.

reigle9
05-19-2007, 12:09 PM
He's big, play any FS? Kidding...kind of.

D-Unit
05-19-2007, 12:42 PM
We'd be the stupidest team in the league if we didn't even offer a 3rd rounder. I'm hearing we're not interested at all. Dumb.

Staubach12
05-19-2007, 02:32 PM
When is the supplemental draft?

Macarthur
05-21-2007, 09:58 AM
We'd be the stupidest team in the league if we didn't even offer a 3rd rounder. I'm hearing we're not interested at all. Dumb.

There's got to be a reason. Unless they're throwing up a smoke screen.

FinChase
05-21-2007, 01:12 PM
There's got to be a reason. Unless they're throwing up a smoke screen.

That's always a possibility. They'd be even more stupid if they made their interest openly known.

robert_in_bigd
05-21-2007, 03:26 PM
If you can shake your head, don't talk.

If you can can grunt, don't shake your head.

If you don't have to say anything at all, shut up.

D-Unit
05-21-2007, 03:32 PM
That's always a possibility. They'd be even more stupid if they made their interest openly known.
Well, they did that prior to the draft when they announced to the world they were interested in Anthony Spencer. So stupidity cannot be an excuse... they are stupid when it comes to stuff like that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/columns/story?columnist=mosley_matt&id=2851338

Octavius
05-23-2007, 01:29 PM
He is, easily, worth a 3rd rounder.

He has good size (6' 200 lbs,) he is fast (anywhere from 4.33 on turf to 4.44 on grass) and has proven himself in the toughest conference in college football. Very physical and is a solid tackler.

Prior to his Senior year he was ranked as the top High School DB in the country by Rivals and Tom Lemming and the top overall prospect in Georgia by Parade, Rivals, Lemming and USA Today.

He blew his knee out his Senior year in High School and had to Redshirt to rehab the knee in 2003.

In 2004 and 2005 he did not start, playing nickel behind Demario Minter (NFL, Browns) and Tim Jennings (NFL, Colts.)

He has worked and regained his speed and quickness since the knee injury and it showed as he covered Calvin Johnson one-on -one in 2nd half of the last game of the season, holding him to 2 catches.

That said, I doubt Jerry is going to risk anything higher than a 4th, which will be unlikely to be high enough.

Cheers.

robert_in_bigd
05-23-2007, 01:44 PM
How about Jared Gaither in your opinion?

D-Unit
05-23-2007, 02:47 PM
How about Jared Gaither in your opinion?
I hope to hell we'd be jumpin' on his bones. I'd give up our own first round pick! But apparently he won't go earlier than a 3rd in the supplemental. I say we use our second rounder. He's my favorite OT in next year's draft. Might as well jump start his career if he is indeed entering into the supplemental draft.

http://nationalchamps.net/2006/preview/pics/small/maryland_jared_gaither_sm.jpg

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/08/21/PH2006082101528.jpg

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/md/sports/m-footbl/auto_action/413207.jpeg

LSUALUM99
05-23-2007, 04:37 PM
Exactly how many tackles are we going to carry on the roster? Taking one in the supplemental (unless it's an absolute steal based on his value) seems like a terrible idea.

Macarthur
05-23-2007, 04:38 PM
That said, I doubt Jerry is going to risk anything higher than a 4th, which will be unlikely to be high enough.

Cheers.

This is the part that drives me crazy.

Why the hell not?! If this dude is the real deal and is a first rounder next year, why is he not at least worth a 3rd rounder now? That just doesn't make sense.

D-Unit
05-23-2007, 08:24 PM
Exactly how many tackles are we going to carry on the roster? Taking one in the supplemental (unless it's an absolute steal based on his value) seems like a terrible idea.
I'd say it's pretty safe to say that Gaither has more upside and potential than any of the current tackles on our roster. If we have to make a cut to make room for him, then DO IT!

HEISMANHERSCHEL
05-24-2007, 12:08 AM
I agree with D-unit. I would jump on him, too. The only arguement I would have is the first round part. Two first gives us soooo much flexibility next year.

I have another question, and this directly reflects my not wanting to use a first rounder:

How many supplemental picks can you name that flourished in the NFL. I may not be remembering well, but I can not think of many. There has to be a reason.

If I am wrong with this, someone correct me.

Octavius
05-24-2007, 07:44 AM
I agree with D-unit. I would jump on him, too. The only arguement I would have is the first round part. Two first gives us soooo much flexibility next year.

I have another question, and this directly reflects my not wanting to use a first rounder:

How many supplemental picks can you name that flourished in the NFL. I may not be remembering well, but I can not think of many. There has to be a reason.

If I am wrong with this, someone correct me.

Agreed on the 1st rounder; I hope Jerry learned his lesson following the absurd decision to give two 1st rounders for Galloway.

As for the supplemental, there have not been many taken overall.

Off the top of my head some good ones:

Bernie Kosar - QB Browns
Rob Moore - WR Jets
Chris Carter - WR Eagles

Dave Brown was the last player that I recall being selected for a 1st

Steve Walsh worked out well enough for Dallas once they traded him for a 1st and 3rd.

Octavius
05-24-2007, 07:48 AM
This is the part that drives me crazy.

Why the hell not?! If this dude is the real deal and is a first rounder next year, why is he not at least worth a 3rd rounder now? That just doesn't make sense.

I think Jerry is desperate to prove that he is a "football mind."

He wants to have successful picks in later rounds (3rd and lower) that he can point to... "hidden gems."

In addition, unlike a 3rd rounder in the regular draft, this pick would get a ton of press coverage and if it did not work out... even more. How many of us would know who Manny wright was or care that Saban made him cry in Mini-Camp if he had been taken in the regular draft?

Macarthur
05-24-2007, 09:48 AM
I think Jerry is desperate to prove that he is a "football mind."

He wants to have successful picks in later rounds (3rd and lower) that he can point to... "hidden gems."

How much of a genius would he look like if he got a first rounder in exchange for a 3rd?


In addition, unlike a 3rd rounder in the regular draft, this pick would get a ton of press coverage and if it did not work out... even more. How many of us would know who Manny wright was or care that Saban made him cry in Mini-Camp if he had been taken in the regular draft?


I understand what you are saying, but if you trust your scouts and they tell you this dude is for real, do it.

Octavius
05-24-2007, 10:36 AM
How much of a genius would he look like if he got a first rounder in exchange for a 3rd?





I understand what you are saying, but if you trust your scouts and they tell you this dude is for real, do it.

Personally, I think Oliver is worth a 2nd but will go in the 3rd because teams are very hesitant to give up more than that in the draft.

This kid could be a starter in 2008... possibly allowing Henry to move to FS.

SEC players are more prepared for the NFL than players in other conferences... just look at this year's first round. Some team will have a solid starter for the next 5 or 6 years with Oliver.

nrcirc
05-24-2007, 02:59 PM
I'd say it's pretty safe to say that Gaither has more upside and potential than any of the current tackles on our roster. If we have to make a cut to make room for him, then DO IT!

Another word if we have to cut Doug Free, you would do it. That's funny. BTW I am not sure he is eligible for NFL yet.

D-Unit
05-24-2007, 04:42 PM
Another word if we have to cut Doug Free, you would do it. That's funny. BTW I am not sure he is eligible for NFL yet.
I would cut McQuistan before Free. But if you're asking me if Gaither is better than Free, I'd say yes to that.

fryman
05-24-2007, 06:27 PM
Another word if we have to cut Doug Free, you would do it. That's funny. BTW I am not sure he is eligible for NFL yet.

McQuistan would go before Free. Free could probably play any line position, and has more potential than McQuistan. Not to mention more is invested in Free.

I would definitely give a 3rd for Gaither.

thule
05-24-2007, 07:29 PM
Gaither has too much hype to buy into. I think with drafting 2 OT's in the draft and valueing our future picks the way we do...no chance he comes here.

D-Unit
05-25-2007, 03:39 AM
Gaither has too much hype to buy into. I think with drafting 2 OT's in the draft and valueing our future picks the way we do...no chance he comes here.
So you don't like him because he has hype? I don't like that logic. Especially when the hype you're referring to NFLDC generated hype. :D

You're more than likely right though about us already having drafted 2 OTs and the odds not good of us going for Gaither. Too bad. What a talent. Here's hoping he stays out of the NFC East at least.

nrcirc
05-25-2007, 08:17 AM
McQuistan would go before Free. Free could probably play any line position, and has more potential than McQuistan. Not to mention more is invested in Free.

I would definitely give a 2nd for Gaither.

Free only bench 22 times in combine, you think he is ready for NFL, like I said it before, he will be inactive for entire 2007-08 season. McQuistan will be back up both sides.

Gaither is too tall and will have trouble with small DE.

DMWSackMachine
05-25-2007, 01:56 PM
I think we are ******** is we don't at least offer a 4th round bid for this guy.

The problem with the supplemental draft is two fold: first, that scouts have not made a thorough evaluation of game film, and haven't done enough to really nail down the type of talent or caliber of player that the prospect is, and second, that they prospect has not gone through the pre-draft evaluation process that is designed to bring up red flags, i.e. lack of speed, agility, mental acuity, etc or character concerns that would pop up.

It just presents very, very high level of risk that most teams are too uncomfortable with. Draft picks are a franchise's lifeblood. You dick around with those, you find yourself at the bottom of the standings pretty damn quick. That said, I think this guy will probably receive a second round bid from a team ahead of us in the order. That means that we would have to risk our first rounder, which is simply not in the cards.

Too bad, it would be nice having a top young talent in the secondary.

fryman
05-25-2007, 05:59 PM
Free only bench 22 times in combine, you think he is ready for NFL, like I said it before, he will be inactive for entire 2007-08 season. McQuistan will be back up both sides.

Gaither is too tall and will have trouble with small DE.

If we were to get Gaither he would be the active swing tackle most likely, and Free or marten would move to guard or center for the year (most likely guard for Marten and center for Free). Realistically neither Mcquistan or Free would get cut, it would probably just be Berger. The backups would probably be like this for this year.- Gaither/McQuistan/Free/Proctor/Gaither with Free also behind Gaither at LT and Marten behind him at RT.

and Gaither is too tall? hahahaha have you played football? a difference of 1 or 2 inches isn't noticeable on the field. He is 1 in. taller than Colombo and 2 taller than Flo, just two examples. If he fails in the NFL it will most likely not be because of his height.