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Joeyjr09
05-17-2007, 06:44 PM
1.)Minnesota Vikings-Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville
2.)Oakland Raiders-Calais Campbell, DE, Miami (FL)
3.)Kansas City Chiefs-Jake Long, OT, Michigan
4.)Houston Texans-Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
5.)Tennessee Titans-Early Doucet, WR, Louisiana State
6.)Washington Redskins-Glenn Dorsey, DT, Louisiana State
7.)Tampa Bay Buccaneers-Sam Baker, OT, Southern California
8.)Detroit Lions-Kenny Phillips, SS, Miami (FL)
9.)Dallas Cowboys (via Cle)-DeSean Jackson, WR California
10.)Miami Dolphins-Jared Gaither, OT, Maryland
11.)Carolina Panthers-Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida
12.)Arizona Cardinals-Paul Oliver, CB, Georgia
13.)New York Giants-Dan Conner, LB, Penn State
14.)Green Bay Packers-Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
15.)Buffalo Bills-Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan
16.)Pittsburgh Steelers-Lawrence Jackson, DE, Southern California
17.)Atlanta Falcons-Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College
18.)New York Jets-Shawn Crable, OLB, Michigan
19.)St. Louis Rams-Frank Okam, DT, Texas
20.)Cincinnati Bengals-Tyson Jackson, DE, Louisiana State
21.)New England Patriots (via SF)-Vince Hall, LB, Virginia Tech
22.)Jacksonville Jaguars-Andre Woodson, QB, Kentucky
23.)Philadelphia Eagles-Keith Rivers, LB, Southern California
24.)Seattle Seahawks-Steve Slaton, RB, West Virginia
25.)Denver Broncos-Adarius Bowman, WR, Oklahoma State
26.)Baltimore Ravens-Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona
27.)Dallas Cowboys-Andre Flullen, DL, Florida State
28.)San Diego Chargers-Ray Rice, RB, Rutgers
29.)Chicago Bears-Chad Henne, QB, Michigan
30.)New England Patriots-Chris Long, DE, Virginia
31.)New Orleans Saints-James Laurinaitis, OLB, Ohio State
32.)San Francisco 49ers (via Ind)-Anthony “Red” Bryant, NT, Texas A&M

No comment about the draft order please. There is nothing here that is absurd and unreasonable to expect so deal with it if you don't like it. You really have no idea what will happen.

kalbears13
05-17-2007, 07:37 PM
edit: deleted

Joeyjr09
05-17-2007, 07:48 PM
It is absurd and unreasonable to have two NFC teams in the Superbowl. I am very sure that this will not happen.

Read again. The Niners have the Colts 1st round pick. The Colts are in the AFC. The Saints are in the NFC. Please take time to read my entire post before you start calling my work absurd.

kalbears13
05-17-2007, 07:50 PM
Oh snap. Didn't see the Via. Sorry. It was hiding.

aNYtitan
05-17-2007, 08:48 PM
Wow...top 5 pick for the Titans next year? Its possible so I am not complaining. However I have DeSean Jackson as the #1 WR next year and it is possible that this year is Albert Haynesworth's last year as a Titan given it is his contract year so they could take Glenn Dorsey

Joeyjr09
05-17-2007, 09:45 PM
DeSean Jackson, much like Ted Ginn lacks ideal size and is not an prototype number 1 WR in NFL. Who knows how much of a pounding he will take trying to go across the middle. Doucet has good size (6'1", 205 Lbs) and solid speed (rumored 4.4). I think he has the potential to developed into a dependable number 1 WR in the NFL and make a few Pro Bowls. Jackson I feel will be more of a playmaking weapon then a go to WR and Tennessee needs a go to guy. They need to get dependability before they look for electricity.

I think Jackson is somewhat overrated as a prospect because many like him more then Ginn and the Ginn bashing has been rampant on these boards for some time which leads to alot of pumping up for Jackson.

To me, Doucet is the number 1 WR in the class right now and a solid fit for the Titans as a go to partner for VY. I see where your going with the Dorsey pick but I have them taking a step back this year after all the offseason losses and having a top 5 pick. Thinking is that they will notice the need to bring in some help for VY after the offense suffers with VY as the only true threat. The defense should at the very least be solid.

villagewarrior
05-18-2007, 01:14 AM
I can live with that for the Chiefs. The only way I see them being 3rd is if LJ gets hurt or Croyle completely bombs, but it's possible. Tackle is a huge need at this point in time, as is corner so that could be an option as well.

WMD
05-18-2007, 01:39 AM
Eh, the Lions have two Round 2 safeties (Daniel Bullocks, Gerald Alexander) that they're probably going to turn to for the future.. Unless they switch Alexander to a CB, in which case drafting Phillips makes me a happy camper.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 06:29 AM
I've heard more often then not that Alexander will be moved to CB and they never did replace Por Bowler Dre Bly so that's my thinking there. Plus at that spot, Phillips is far an away the best talent and you can't pass on a guy like him who can add so much to the defense.

23trufant
05-18-2007, 07:31 AM
Steve Slaton to Seattle is interesting. Not going to complain because Im not sure how much longer Shaun Alexander has the will to play at a high level. But that would be alot of money tied up in RBs. Im pretty sure Morris is being overpaid. It could happen though I wouldnt complain.

T-RICH49
05-18-2007, 10:44 AM
GREAT Chiefs pick

Oaktown1981
05-18-2007, 12:41 PM
Raiders pick isn't good at all. DE isn't a need for the Raiders. Either Long, McFadden would be a Raider.

Acreboy
05-18-2007, 01:24 PM
Isn't Laurinaitis Road Warrier Hawk's kid?

If so pretty cool and a good pick anyway. Would rather DT here but it's cool.

JPF
05-18-2007, 01:25 PM
Strong possibility for the Panthers.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 03:10 PM
Raiders pick isn't good at all. DE isn't a need for the Raiders. Either Long, McFadden would be a Raider.

DE isn't a need at all but RB is? You have Lamont Jordan who started last season, blus FA signing Domanick Rhodes as a capable backup and Michael Bush who is your future and the most physically talented of all your backs.

Who do you have at DE? Burgess has been saying how unhappy he is with his contract all offseason and Quentin "please let him stop being so lazy" Moses is the best option on the other side. Your on course to start a rookie 3rd round pick and your best player at the position is unhappy. Not to mention DE is one of the most important positions to get depth at because you need to keep getting pressure on the QB.

No way Al Davis uses another 2nd overall on Jake Long after watching Gallery tank so quickly.

Bearsfan123
05-18-2007, 03:23 PM
If the Bears need a QB we will be picking MUCH lower (for if Grossman is bad enough to be let go then he has to play piss poor) I dont really like Henne as a pro prospect either but thats just my opinion. That late in the draft an OT would be likely, or theres always WR or DT. Maybe OLB or depending on how Okwo and Jamar look this year.

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 03:35 PM
If the Bears need a QB we will be picking MUCH lower (for if Grossman is bad enough to be let go then he has to play piss poor) I dont really like Henne as a pro prospect either but thats just my opinion. That late in the draft an OT would be likely, or theres always WR or DT. Maybe OLB or depending on how Okwo and Jamar look this year.

You guys made it to the SB with him playing like he did last year.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 03:40 PM
You guys made it to the SB with him playing like he did last year.

My thoughts exactly. I think he plays just as bad this year as last year and that lack of growth will cause Smith to bring in a new guy to push him. Henne seems like a nice, safe fit for them who would not make tons of mistakes but ha the talent to do enough for them to win. He'd be a great fit for them IMO.

To say the Bears will be picking much lower if they draft a QB is simply untrue because Grossman has already played piss poor and they got to the SB. He could play just as bad, get them to the playoffs and they can still make a change in the offseason. Look at Jake Plummer.

BTW...Shouldn't you have said they'd be picking much higher? The worst your team is the higher your draft pick. Picking lower would mean the Bears made it all the way in which case, it's har to see them replacing him.

NickBam
05-18-2007, 03:40 PM
I don't like Henne to the Bears in Round 1. I don't think of Henne very highly as a pro prospect and nothing more than a game manager and I wouldn't want to draft a game manager in the first.

21ST
05-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Give the redskins a corner or a WR

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
I don't like Henne to the Bears in Round 1. I don't think of Henne very highly as a pro prospect and nothing more than a game manager and I wouldn't want to draft a game manager in the first.

You got Rex Grossman in the 1st and you keep playing him even tho he is a game destroyer. Henne is a Jake Delhomme (when he was in his prime) in my eyes and I think that could put Chicago over the top to get that kind of play from the QB spot. Remember Delhomme was as solid a QB as you would find during his prime and I think he'd make a solid pick for the Bears. Delhomme was a 25 TD, 15 INT, 3,500 YD and 60 percent completion guy during his best seasons and that's what I think Henne can be and thats exactly what I think the Bears need to get over the top. Plus Henne seems to be pretty consistent which is the most important factor into this pick.

Bearsfan123
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
My thoughts exactly. I think he plays just as bad this year as last year and that lack of growth will cause Smith to bring in a new guy to push him. Henne seems like a nice, safe fit for them who would not make tons of mistakes but ha the talent to do enough for them to win. He'd be a great fit for them IMO.

To say the Bears will be picking much lower if they draft a QB is simply untrue because Grossman has already played piss poor and they got to the SB. He could play just as bad, get them to the playoffs and they can still make a change in the offseason. Look at Jake Plummer.

BTW...Shouldn't you have said they'd be picking much higher? The worst your team is the higher your draft pick. Picking lower would mean the Bears made it all the way in which case, it's har to see them replacing him.


*rolls eyes* yes Grossman had bad games last year, but he also had good games, and excellent games. But yeah, i meant higher. im sorry i made a mistake.

And no, i believe Grossman will be fine this year and will retain his job. This time last year, Bears fans had to go through the exact same thing. Grossman is not terrible and I firmly believe he will progress to the point of a solid quarterback. Also if Grossman does not perform they likely wont resign him since Im almost positive this is his contract year.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 04:12 PM
Give the redskins a corner or a WR

More CBs and WRs? Who exactly is on your DL? You stockpiled millions of WRs (Moss, Randle-El, Lloyd, Thrash) and there's no CB worthy of that pick (not to mention you just signed Fred Smoot and have Carlos Rogers who was a top 10 pick, and have Macklin and Springs) You don't need another top 10 CB or a top 10 WR. Neither of those picks are as important as a DT or DE for your team.

You have the worst DL in the NFL and your starters had a combined 10 sacks. You have Griffin, Carter, Daniels and let's pray the other teams OL sucks. Most of your starters are better in a backup role as it is.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 04:15 PM
*rolls eyes* yes Grossman had bad games last year, but he also had good games, and excellent games. But yeah, i meant higher. im sorry i made a mistake.

And no, i believe Grossman will be fine this year and will retain his job. This time last year, Bears fans had to go through the exact same thing. Grossman is not terrible and I firmly believe he will progress to the point of a solid quarterback. Also if Grossman does not perform they likely wont resign him since Im almost positive this is his contract year.

I don't think Grossman will play well and you have to admit that there is a strong chanec he could struggle. HE did have good games last season but he also had a game with a passer rating of 0. Thats why I brought up consistency. The Bears don't need a good QB to get to the playoffs. They got there with a mediocre one (at best) last season. They could still make the playoffs with Grossman playing poorly and then let him go and draft a new QB.

If Grossman doesn't perform and gets let go then that even mroe fire to the pick I made because now he won't even be on the roster and they will need a new franchise guy.

Bearsfan123
05-18-2007, 04:27 PM
im not saying there isnt a chance that he could do bad, im just pointing out that A: Grossman has shown flashes that he can be good-great and consistent. B: i explained that i dont like Henne's pro potential C:If Grossman struggles like you seem to believe he will then we will not make the playoffs period.

But I still do not agree that there is a "high" probability of him doing worse. He started off last year on fire, teams figured him out (like they did to Romo just with a more dramatic drop off) he struggled and then started righting the ship, then in his 4th playoff game of his career he was in the superbowl, and in that game the entire team didnt come to play.

thebow305
05-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Only thing is that Paul Oliver won't be in the draft next year, he will be in this year's Supplemental draft. Gaither might not be there either, but if he is, it's a great pick, assuming he plays up to his potential finally. If neither are there, I wouldn't mind Derrick Harvey. Vernon Gholston would be my ultimate pick there, I can't believe you don't even have him in round one. That's surprising.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 07:06 PM
im not saying there isnt a chance that he could do bad, im just pointing out that A: Grossman has shown flashes that he can be good-great and consistent. B: i explained that i dont like Henne's pro potential C:If Grossman struggles like you seem to believe he will then we will not make the playoffs period.

But I still do not agree that there is a "high" probability of him doing worse. He started off last year on fire, teams figured him out (like they did to Romo just with a more dramatic drop off) he struggled and then started righting the ship, then in his 4th playoff game of his career he was in the superbowl, and in that game the entire team didnt come to play.

Grossman has some flashes that he can be good. He has not however shown flashes of being consistent. If anything he has shown the exact opposite. He has shown that he has never been able to put consistent play together.

His passer ratings last year per game where:

98.6- Good
148.0- Great
64.9- Poor
100.5- Very Good
101.2- Very Good
10.2- Horrible
137.4- Great
36.8- Awful
105.7- Great
81.4- Average
23.7- Horrible
1.3- Shouldn't be in the NFL
114.4- Great
104.3- Very Good
80.4- Average
0- Should be shot.

There is no consistency whatsoever in those numbers. I mean his last 6 games he goes from 23.7 to 1.3 to an amazing 114.4 and 104.3 to then go to 80.4 and bottom out at a horendous 0.0. Please find me the consisntency in that.

If you don't like Henne pro potential then that is a personal choice. Does mean it's a bad pick.

I don't understand why you keep saying that if Grossman plays as bad as I think he will play, they will not make the playoffs. He played poorly for all but 6 games last season and they still made it all the way to the Superbowl. It's not a stretch to think that with good health and a fresh start the team can make it back to the playoffs even with Grossman playing poorly.There's no logic in telling me something is not gonna happen this season when it has already happened the season before.

Not sure where you saw him play well to start, struggle and then start righting the ship at the end. That was not the case at all. Look at his numbers. He was up and down all season. He had a 0.0 passer rating the last game. How is that righting the ship? He had a 1.3 passer rating in week 12. Is that righting the ship? He plain and simple just does not play consistently and is not nearly the QB you think he can be or believe him to become. I don't understand the idea that he will suddenly become consistent when he has never shown it and why you think he is more likely to succeed.

He is just as likely to throw 25 boneheaded picks as he is to suddenly put it together and throw for 30 TDs. What makes me lean towards his failure is that the problem seems to be with his head and not with his talent which is a huge problem for an NFL QB.

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 07:23 PM
Only thing is that Paul Oliver won't be in the draft next year, he will be in this year's Supplemental draft. Gaither might not be there either, but if he is, it's a great pick, assuming he plays up to his potential finally. If neither are there, I wouldn't mind Derrick Harvey. Vernon Gholston would be my ultimate pick there, I can't believe you don't even have him in round one. That's surprising.

I made the draft, posted it and then five mintues later saw the news about Oliver. I left it unchanged until I hear anything official and I guess I'll mess around with a new mock next week.

Gaither I think is a lock to come out. Too much raw talent. He will get a 1st round grade and bolt.

Vernon Gholston in the top 10? Yea right. I don't even think that guy is a 1st round talent at this point. He's had one good season on a team that was loaded. Gholston is going to have to have another very good year and an impressive combine to stick in round 1. Your obviously an Ohio State fan and love reaches. You were the same with Ginn. Harvey is a much better prospect right now then Gholston and even then, Miami has bigger needs in round 1 then OLB. OT, CB, MLB, DE, TE, DS all seem like bigger needs at this point. The only way I think they look at OLB is if Calais Campbell where to fall to them by some miracle. Joey Porter and Jason Taylor while older, still seems to have 2-3 more productive seasons left in them. No need for a 1st round OLB. You'd have half the payroll tied into that position.

thebow305
05-18-2007, 08:46 PM
I made the draft, posted it and then five mintues later saw the news about Oliver. I left it unchanged until I hear anything official and I guess I'll mess around with a new mock next week.

Gaither I think is a lock to come out. Too much raw talent. He will get a 1st round grade and bolt.

Vernon Gholston in the top 10? Yea right. I don't even think that guy is a 1st round talent at this point. He's had one good season on a team that was loaded. Gholston is going to have to have another very good year and an impressive combine to stick in round 1. Your obviously an Ohio State fan and love reaches. You were the same with Ginn. Harvey is a much better prospect right now then Gholston and even then, Miami has bigger needs in round 1 then OLB. OT, CB, MLB, DE, TE, DS all seem like bigger needs at this point. The only way I think they look at OLB is if Calais Campbell where to fall to them by some miracle. Joey Porter and Jason Taylor while older, still seems to have 2-3 more productive seasons left in them. No need for a 1st round OLB. You'd have half the payroll tied into that position.

If you ask a lot of people right now about the 2008 draft, many believe Gholston will be up there as maybe the top Outside Linebacker/Defensive End tweener prospect available. It's not a reach to think the top OLB could go top 10. This guy looks the part and after he follows up his nice season this past year with a breakout 2007 season, he will be a first round prospect for sure. Not to mention, he will dominate post season workouts. I actually HATE Ohio State. As wierd as that sounds. I am a HUGE Miami fan and after they robbed us of the NC, I haven't forgiven them. I just love Ginn and Gholston as individual prospects for the draft and I would love to have them both on the Dolphins. You are right about one thing you said though, Harvey is a better prospect RIGHT NOW, but after this season, he will no longer be IMO.

Also, Calais will not play OLB, nor will he be considered a prospect for that position. He is strictly a Defensive End, 4-3 or 3-4. I still wouldn't mind him coming to the Dolphins! :)

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 10:27 PM
If you ask a lot of people right now about the 2008 draft, many believe Gholston will be up there as maybe the top Outside Linebacker/Defensive End tweener prospect available. It's not a reach to think the top OLB could go top 10. This guy looks the part and after he follows up his nice season this past year with a breakout 2007 season, he will be a first round prospect for sure. Not to mention, he will dominate post season workouts. I actually HATE Ohio State. As wierd as that sounds. I am a HUGE Miami fan and after they robbed us of the NC, I haven't forgiven them. I just love Ginn and Gholston as individual prospects for the draft and I would love to have them both on the Dolphins. You are right about one thing you said though, Harvey is a better prospect RIGHT NOW, but after this season, he will no longer be IMO.

Also, Calais will not play OLB, nor will he be considered a prospect for that position. He is strictly a Defensive End, 4-3 or 3-4. I still wouldn't mind him coming to the Dolphins! :)

Calais could very well play OLB in the pros. Depends on how he plays with the extra bulk this season. If he carries it well then he will be strictly a DE. If he needs a shed some of that to keep his elite quickness then he will definately be utilized as a DE/LB hybrid much like Jason Taylor or like Jarvis Moss as considered this season. He would play DE on certain downs but has the ability to play OLB in certain situaitons and can drop into coverage. I believe the term is for that position is the Open End or OE.

I don't think Gholston will be the top hybrid player available and Derrick Harvey, Quentin Groves, and Tommy Blake could all push for that spot with Harvey looking like the most likely candidate. Gholston is a true hybrid. He's one of the few guys that it looks like, no matter what, will have to move to OLB in the pros. Campbell can stay at DE or OLB depending on the situation. Harvey can play DE in the 4-3 and OLB in the 3-4. Same with Groves. Gholston it looks like will have to play OLB no matter what.

The only prospect that seemed to be like that this season was Anthony Spencer. He went 26 overall. Gholston isn't nearly the type of prospect Ware or Merriman were and they didn't go in the top ten. Not to say Gholston can't raise his stock with a great year but seems like those type of hybrid players seem to have a ceiling on where they go and I can't remember the last time I saw one go in the top 10.

I just don't see it. He isn't nearly as good as you make him out to be and ultimately if he goes 1st round, the 15-20 range seems to be the ceiling for him. There's just way too many better prospects out there.

Besides, as already stated. We have Jason Taylor and Joey Porter. If you throw in a top 10 pick at that position, there would be way too much money tied into one spot. using a 2nd or 3rd rounder makes alot more sense to groom them behind those guys and there's usually value at the DE/OLB position in those rounds. It's a deep OT draft and the Dolphins are lacking a true LT. Go get one and settle problem areas instead of taking a guy that will be a backup for the next 2-3 years.

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 10:32 PM
Campbell isn't a LB at all, he isn't really a 3-4 DE either. He would have to gain another 20+ pounds to get consideration there, and it would be a waste. Campbell is a pure 4-3 DE.

As for Gholston, he has top 10 potential but is far from a lock.

Oaktown1981
05-18-2007, 11:18 PM
DE isn't a need at all but RB is? You have Lamont Jordan who started last season, blus FA signing Domanick Rhodes as a capable backup and Michael Bush who is your future and the most physically talented of all your backs.

Who do you have at DE? Burgess has been saying how unhappy he is with his contract all offseason and Quentin "please let him stop being so lazy" Moses is the best option on the other side. Your on course to start a rookie 3rd round pick and your best player at the position is unhappy. Not to mention DE is one of the most important positions to get depth at because you need to keep getting pressure on the QB.

No way Al Davis uses another 2nd overall on Jake Long after watching Gallery tank so quickly.

Burgess has been at mini camp there is no problem with him and his contract. He wasn't at a voluntary OTA so NFL Network just assumed he was not happy with his contract.

Every Raider fans knows this will probably be LaMont Jordan's last year as a Raider. D.Rhodes is only signed for two years. Raiders drafted Mike Bush in the 4th round. If everything works out the way they have things played Bush would become the start in 08 and Rhodes would back him up.

If the Raiders were in position to draft most likely the #1 prospect in McFadden there is a good chance they would.

Just because the Gallery hasn't played the way he should wouldn't stop the Raiders from draft another OT. If OT is the Raiders biggest need they would draft an OT.

There is no way a DE will be the Raiders biggest need in 2008.

thebow305
05-19-2007, 01:31 AM
Campbell isn't a LB at all, he isn't really a 3-4 DE either. He would have to gain another 20+ pounds to get consideration there, and it would be a waste. Campbell is a pure 4-3 DE.

As for Gholston, he has top 10 potential but is far from a lock.

Thank you. Finally we can agree on something. Although Campbell does have elite athleticism and probably could play OLB in certain situations, I just don't see it happening at all.

Joeyjr, I do agree with most of what you said though, you made some very good points. OLB is definitely not our biggest need and would slighty be a waste to invest in one so early on when it is not a position of need. I just like Gholston and I always seem to fall in love with the DE/OLB tweener prospects when it comes time for the draft. It's my favorite position in the whole draft and most interesting one.

LT would certainly be the likely spot for us to upgrade next season. But I think that is only if Baker or Long are there. Don't get me wrong, I love Gaither's size and athleticism, but he is way too raw at this point to be projecting as a top ten pick. But, who knows, the situation could change completely a year from now.

Joeyjr09
05-19-2007, 10:46 AM
Burgess has been at mini camp there is no problem with him and his contract. He wasn't at a voluntary OTA so NFL Network just assumed he was not happy with his contract.

Every Raider fans knows this will probably be LaMont Jordan's last year as a Raider. D.Rhodes is only signed for two years. Raiders drafted Mike Bush in the 4th round. If everything works out the way they have things played Bush would become the start in 08 and Rhodes would back him up.

If the Raiders were in position to draft most likely the #1 prospect in McFadden there is a good chance they would.

Just because the Gallery hasn't played the way he should wouldn't stop the Raiders from draft another OT. If OT is the Raiders biggest need they would draft an OT.

There is no way a DE will be the Raiders biggest need in 2008.

There is not way DE will be there biggest need. It might not be the biggest but it is certainly top 2 or 3 for them. I love how the only thing your brought up was Burgess and how he will be fine there. What about the rest of the guys you have at that spot? There is no one else. Moses is your next best option.

You base you RB need on the fact that Bush is in line to start for you next year but you completely fail to see that Moses is going to start for you at DE this year. Bush at least has alot more talent as he would have been a late 1st/early 2nd round pick had he been healthy. Not to mention the fact that RB is easier to find later in the draft if you need a guy to compliment Bush and Rhodes and that depth at RB is much easier to find then depth at DE. I have no idea why you are even trying to argue that you need a RB more then a DE. It's rediculous. If you just like McFadden more then fine but RB is in no way shape or form a bigger need then DE for the Raiders.

I agree that Gallery would not completely stop the Raiders from spending another 2nd overall on Long but I think Al Davis will definately be hesitant to drop that much more money into a position that he already made a huge investment into not that long ago. With other elite prospect on the board at positions that need help as well, it's not a stretch to think that Davis would go another direction. Especially in a deep OT draft where he could get a solid guy in round 2.

Oaktown1981
05-19-2007, 01:14 PM
There is not way DE will be there biggest need. It might not be the biggest but it is certainly top 2 or 3 for them. I love how the only thing your brought up was Burgess and how he will be fine there. What about the rest of the guys you have at that spot? There is no one else. Moses is your next best option.

You base you RB need on the fact that Bush is in line to start for you next year but you completely fail to see that Moses is going to start for you at DE this year. Bush at least has alot more talent as he would have been a late 1st/early 2nd round pick had he been healthy. Not to mention the fact that RB is easier to find later in the draft if you need a guy to compliment Bush and Rhodes and that depth at RB is much easier to find then depth at DE. I have no idea why you are even trying to argue that you need a RB more then a DE. It's rediculous. If you just like McFadden more then fine but RB is in no way shape or form a bigger need then DE for the Raiders.

I agree that Gallery would not completely stop the Raiders from spending another 2nd overall on Long but I think Al Davis will definately be hesitant to drop that much more money into a position that he already made a huge investment into not that long ago. With other elite prospect on the board at positions that need help as well, it's not a stretch to think that Davis would go another direction. Especially in a deep OT draft where he could get a solid guy in round 2.

Moses isn't the current starter at mini camps. It's Kevin Huntley or Tommy Kelly.

Huntley was an UDFA who didn't get any playtime until the last month of the season. He made a great impression he recored more sacks then the starter all year Tyler Brayton.

Raiders re-sign NT Terdell Sands to a big contract so that means Tommy Kelly will get a lot of playing time at RE. Kelly can play both UT and RE.

So if the Raiders end up with a top 2 pick it won't because of there need for a DE.

Joeyjr09
05-19-2007, 01:31 PM
Moses isn't the current starter at mini camps. It's Kevin Huntley or Tommy Kelly.

Huntley was an UDFA who didn't get any playtime until the last month of the season. He made a great impression he recored more sacks then the starter all year Tyler Brayton.

Raiders re-sign NT Terdell Sands to a big contract so that means Tommy Kelly will get a lot of playing time at RE. Kelly can play both UT and RE.

So if the Raiders end up with a top 2 pick it won't because of there need for a DE.

So now you went from counting on a 3rd round pick to counting on an UDFA that barely even made it to the field last season. Great reason to pass on an elite DE right there.

Tommy Kelly are you serious? He weighs 300 pounds. He's not gonna bring you pressure off the edge. He's just a run stuffer and he's your primary backup at a weak DT position.

You have a cast of mistfits at DE. Moses is a rookie 3rd round pick with a knack for being lazy. Kelly is a backup DT that needs to be used at DE because of lack of depth and Huntley is an UDFA that had 10 tackles and 2 sacks over a 6 game span last season. Are you seriously thinking that is going to cut it at the all important DE position?

I mean damn, thats like saying the Vikings would pass on Calvin Johnson in order to take Gaines Adams.

Oaktown1981
05-19-2007, 04:30 PM
So now you went from counting on a 3rd round pick to counting on an UDFA that barely even made it to the field last season. Great reason to pass on an elite DE right there.

Tommy Kelly are you serious? He weighs 300 pounds. He's not gonna bring you pressure off the edge. He's just a run stuffer and he's your primary backup at a weak DT position.

You have a cast of mistfits at DE. Moses is a rookie 3rd round pick with a knack for being lazy. Kelly is a backup DT that needs to be used at DE because of lack of depth and Huntley is an UDFA that had 10 tackles and 2 sacks over a 6 game span last season. Are you seriously thinking that is going to cut it at the all important DE position?

I mean damn, thats like saying the Vikings would pass on Calvin Johnson in order to take Gaines Adams.

Just because Kevin Huntley was undrafted doesn't mean he can't play. You probably have never even seen him play. You just went and looked up some stats. Huntley played great when he was given a chance and provided a lot of pressure. He could of had at least 3 or 4 more sacks but Burgess, Sapp just beat him to the punch.

Just because you say Moses was lazy in college doesn't mean anything. He was once projected to be a 1st round pick. He did have a bad year but the Raiders have a good DC in Rob Ryan and he will get the best out of him.

Bottom line Raiders won't draft a DE if they're picking in the top 2 or 3.

princefielder28
05-19-2007, 04:32 PM
no way Manningham would fall that far

Paranoidmoonduck
05-19-2007, 04:36 PM
Depending on how gaggle of defensive ends Oakland has play this year, I don't think a player like Campbell or Jackson is too likely. Of course, with a dominating year by either and a strong combine, Al could be enticed in that direction.

If the Raiders are picking top 3, then either the offense was just as bad this year or the defense took a major step backward. So either the pick needs to be an impact offensive player at a position of need (*cough* McFadden *cough*) or it needs to be a defensive player worth a top 3 selection. I doubt defensive end is the pick, so someone like Glen Dorsey would become a huge option to replace Sapp or if Asomugha leaves town without a contract and some defensive back has a huge year (if, say, Zachary Bowman stays healthy all year) then that could be an option as well.

Joeyjr09
05-20-2007, 12:07 AM
Bottom line Raiders won't draft a DE if they're picking in the top 2 or 3.

Glad to see how confident about that a year before the draft. Your DE position is not that strong to say it's out of the question and your RB position is not that weak to say McFadden is a better pick. Campbell could easily be a solid pickup at that spot even over McFadden.

Stop acting like a know it all and making matter of fact statements a year before the draft like you know it will happen.

eaglesalltheway
05-20-2007, 09:15 AM
The Eagles will not be needing a LB for a while, so I would say either give us a safety or a CB. We don't have too many holes, but those are the biggest two I can see right now. If some of these rookies come in and surprise us, those may not be needs either, but that is what the rest of the camps and the season are for.

Joeyjr09
05-20-2007, 11:13 AM
no way Manningham would fall that far


He's in the top 15. What more do you want?

Joeyjr09
05-20-2007, 11:20 AM
The Eagles will not be needing a LB for a while, so I would say either give us a safety or a CB. We don't have too many holes, but those are the biggest two I can see right now. If some of these rookies come in and surprise us, those may not be needs either, but that is what the rest of the camps and the season are for.

I can see LB easily being a need. Spikes is coming off an injury. What if he doesn't respond well and isn't the player he used to be. We all know Trotter is losing it and might not be around more then this season. Gaither seems like the teams pick to take over for Trotter which makes Bradley, McCoy (who has been a major dissapointment thus far) and Gocong (who I've heard might move to DE) battling for the last spot. That's some lackluster guys right there although Bradley I think could turn out to be solid given time.

There's alot of quantity there at LB but nothing top notch as far as quality. There's no one ready to take over for Spikes in the near future which is an area they might want to address given his recent injury problems. The only other option is see for them in this mock is Antonie Cason but Rivers also makes alot of sense for them.

draftguru151
05-20-2007, 11:56 AM
I can see LB easily being a need. Spikes is coming off an injury. What if he doesn't respond well and isn't the player he used to be. We all know Trotter is losing it and might not be around more then this season. Gaither seems like the teams pick to take over for Trotter which makes Bradley, McCoy (who has been a major dissapointment thus far) and Gocong (who I've heard might move to DE) battling for the last spot. That's some lackluster guys right there although Bradley I think could turn out to be solid given time.

There's alot of quantity there at LB but nothing top notch as far as quality. There's no one ready to take over for Spikes in the near future which is an area they might want to address given his recent injury problems. The only other option is see for them in this mock is Antonie Cason but Rivers also makes alot of sense for them.

The Eagles defense really undervalues OLBs and with Gaither taking over for Trotter, LB isn't very realistic.

As for the Raiders, Bush will likely be the only back there next season, and like the Raider fans have said, if they are picking top 3 the offense sucked again. The rotation they have at DE will probably not worry Davis enough to pass on a talent like Darren McFadden.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-20-2007, 02:01 PM
Guru has it right in regards to the Raiders. I like that we got Bush where we did, but I would be perfectly happy with him as a backup. We all know he's great on the goal line, is versatile, but he isn't overly explosive. With Burgess, Moses, Kelly, Brayton, and Hulsey, all figuring to be a part of the team come next year, defensive end is one of the lesser needs on defense.

If Al Davis sees another Bo Jackson in McFadden, there isn't any question which way he'll lean.

luckyjackaubrey
05-20-2007, 03:25 PM
For the Pats I would take A. Cason at #21 to play corner and then Laurinaitis with the second pick if it did fall as you have it. Long is a nice prospect but the team is so loaded on the DL.

Zyro_1014
05-20-2007, 05:40 PM
i personally think that Cushing will be a lock for the first round

Joeyjr09
05-20-2007, 10:18 PM
I think you guy are being a little rediculous with your comments on the mock. This mock was just for fun and generate some interesting discussion on here and you all are making crazy statements like Manningham will not drop that far, the raiders will not take a DE, Cushing is a 1st round lock.

Are you guys serious, this was to just talk about prospects the way me and the bow got into a discussion of where Gholston is as a prospect and what his potential is like. This was not made you you all to critize picks a year in advance like you are God and know what will happen. If Burgess gets hurt, Bush comes on strong and the Raiders still lose 13 games. Campbell could very well be the pick.

Coming out here and saying what will or won't happen before the season is played and before FA and the offseason is rediculous.

This was made you conversation about the '08 prospects, not as a accurate mock for you all to rip apart like you know what is going to happen. It's utterly frustrating to see a good thread go to because a bunch of guys didn't like a pick I put for thier team a year before anything takes place. I mean come on guys, let's have some common sense here.

T-Rat42
05-21-2007, 05:52 PM
Not too bad but the Vikings wont be picking first. I know you dont want comments about the draft order and there is nothing absurd about it but puttting us in the one slot is pushing it a little.

the_Kid
05-23-2007, 11:25 AM
the vikings will definitely not be picking 1st. they have only improved since last year and will be getting Chad Greenway and probably Erasmus James back. The vikings also added two playmakers to their offense in AD and Sidney Rice.
Even if we do have the first overall we will probably not be picking a QB. I would much rather have Calais Campbell, a WR or an OL

Acreboy
05-23-2007, 12:33 PM
Give the redskins a corner or a WRDE or DT in a bad way..

Where do you get CB or WR?

Joeyjr09
05-23-2007, 09:25 PM
the vikings will definitely not be picking 1st. they have only improved since last year and will be getting Chad Greenway and probably Erasmus James back. The vikings also added two playmakers to their offense in AD and Sidney Rice.
Even if we do have the first overall we will probably not be picking a QB. I would much rather have Calais Campbell, a WR or an OL

I bet Raiders fans where saying the same thing about their team last season. The Vikes were picking 7th. It's not a stretch for a rookie like Jackson and a underwhelming backup like Bollinger to tank and have the team picking 1st overall. That would definately lead to them picking a franchise QB.

MP123
05-24-2007, 12:01 AM
1.)Minnesota Vikings-Brian Brohm, QB, Louisville
2.)Oakland Raiders-Calais Campbell, DE, Miami (FL)
3.)Kansas City Chiefs-Jake Long, OT, Michigan
4.)Houston Texans-Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas
5.)Tennessee Titans-Early Doucet, WR, Louisiana State
6.)Washington Redskins-Glenn Dorsey, DT, Louisiana State
7.)Tampa Bay Buccaneers-Sam Baker, OT, Southern California
8.)Detroit Lions-Kenny Phillips, SS, Miami (FL)
9.)Dallas Cowboys (via Cle)-DeSean Jackson, WR California
10.)Miami Dolphins-Jared Gaither, OT, Maryland
11.)Carolina Panthers-Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida
12.)Arizona Cardinals-Paul Oliver, CB, Georgia
13.)New York Giants-Dan Conner, LB, Penn State
14.)Green Bay Packers-Limas Sweed, WR, Texas
15.)Buffalo Bills-Mario Manningham, WR, Michigan
16.)Pittsburgh Steelers-Lawrence Jackson, DE, Southern California
17.)Atlanta Falcons-Gosder Cherilus, OT, Boston College
18.)New York Jets-Shawn Crable, OLB, Michigan
19.)St. Louis Rams-Frank Okam, DT, Texas
20.)Cincinnati Bengals-Tyson Jackson, DE, Louisiana State
21.)New England Patriots (via SF)-Vince Hall, LB, Virginia Tech
22.)Jacksonville Jaguars-Andre Woodson, QB, Kentucky
23.)Philadelphia Eagles-Keith Rivers, LB, Southern California
24.)Seattle Seahawks-Steve Slaton, RB, West Virginia
25.)Denver Broncos-Adarius Bowman, WR, Oklahoma State
26.)Baltimore Ravens-Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona
27.)Dallas Cowboys-Andre Flullen, DL, Florida State
28.)San Diego Chargers-Ray Rice, RB, Rutgers
29.)Chicago Bears-Chad Henne, QB, Michigan
30.)New England Patriots-Chris Long, DE, Virginia
31.)New Orleans Saints-James Laurinaitis, OLB, Ohio State
32.)San Francisco 49ers (via Ind)-Anthony “Red” Bryant, NT, Texas A&M

No comment about the draft order please. There is nothing here that is absurd and unreasonable to expect so deal with it if you don't like it. You really have no idea what will happen.

Not bad. But the thing I don't get is why Jake Long goes before Sam Baker. I hear that Long isn't a for sure left tackle while Baker is. So, I can't see why a team with a need a left tackle would take Long over Baker.

brat316
05-24-2007, 09:31 AM
Damn Campbell is going to go 2nd i was hoping he would fall and be taken by a 3-4 team then he would be the next Shawn Merrieman

Vikes99ej
05-24-2007, 11:31 AM
I don't see us being THAT bad, but I still love the pick. Good way to start off a brand new coaching era.

Joeyjr09
05-24-2007, 09:41 PM
I don't see us being THAT bad, but I still love the pick. Good way to start off a brand new coaching era.

All 32 teams in the NFL are saying the same thing. Nobody sits there and expects their team to pick number 1 overall. However, I think the Vikes have enough holes at to put them their if things don't go their way.

They argueably have the worst WR corp in the NFL even with solid picks of Sidney Rice and Andrae Allison. Rookie WRs usually don't contribute alot. They have one of the worst, if not the worst QB situation in the NFL even though Jackson could turn out to be a solid player one day. It's hard to force a 2nd year QB that needed polish to begin with, into the starting role with no WRs for him to throw to and expect for him to play well. He should have to struggle and fight to keep his job all year. This is coming from a Jackson support as I do believe he will be a fine NFL QB one day.

The right side of the OL is inversely as bad as the left side of the line is talented.You go from great to horrible along the line the further right you move. They needed extra help at RG and RT. Peterson and Taylor will be running left all season.

The offense is going to be very lackluster without much of a passing game. Teams will stack 8 in the box every week and stuff the run in order to force a new QB to throw to horrible WRs. Not a good mix.

They got subpar pass rush all last season and hopefully it will be improved this season but there is not much there to get excited about and it is definately a weak spot for them. They are breaking in two new starters at CB and LB in Greenway and Griffin. One coming off a season ending injury. Who knows how they respond. They LB corps is solid but unspectacular.

There's just not much about this team to make me think they will be a better team then last season.The WRs are worse for now because chances are you will not see much from Allison and Rice for a year or two. The QB position is in the same boat. The defense is a wash but has a few more question marks with new starters and people coming off of big injuries. The only real upgrade I saw was AD at RB. And all this isn't even taking into account any injuries that are sure to occur over the course of an NFL season and they have guys like Greenway, James, AD, and a few others that are not 100 percent sure to stay healthy enough to play out a full season.

bills_red
05-24-2007, 10:20 PM
Not bad. But the thing I don't get is why Jake Long goes before Sam Baker. I hear that Long isn't a for sure left tackle while Baker is. So, I can't see why a team with a need a left tackle would take Long over Baker.

you heard the opposite (sp?)

regoob2
05-27-2007, 12:05 PM
Grossman has some flashes that he can be good. He has not however shown flashes of being consistent. If anything he has shown the exact opposite. He has shown that he has never been able to put consistent play together.

His passer ratings last year per game where:

98.6- Good
148.0- Great
64.9- Poor
100.5- Very Good
101.2- Very Good
10.2- Horrible
137.4- Great
36.8- Awful
105.7- Great
81.4- Average
23.7- Horrible
1.3- Shouldn't be in the NFL
114.4- Great
104.3- Very Good
80.4- Average
0- Should be shot.

There is no consistency whatsoever in those numbers. I mean his last 6 games he goes from 23.7 to 1.3 to an amazing 114.4 and 104.3 to then go to 80.4 and bottom out at a horendous 0.0. Please find me the consisntency in that.

If you don't like Henne pro potential then that is a personal choice. Does mean it's a bad pick.

I don't understand why you keep saying that if Grossman plays as bad as I think he will play, they will not make the playoffs. He played poorly for all but 6 games last season and they still made it all the way to the Superbowl. It's not a stretch to think that with good health and a fresh start the team can make it back to the playoffs even with Grossman playing poorly.There's no logic in telling me something is not gonna happen this season when it has already happened the season before.

Not sure where you saw him play well to start, struggle and then start righting the ship at the end. That was not the case at all. Look at his numbers. He was up and down all season. He had a 0.0 passer rating the last game. How is that righting the ship? He had a 1.3 passer rating in week 12. Is that righting the ship? He plain and simple just does not play consistently and is not nearly the QB you think he can be or believe him to become. I don't understand the idea that he will suddenly become consistent when he has never shown it and why you think he is more likely to succeed.

He is just as likely to throw 25 boneheaded picks as he is to suddenly put it together and throw for 30 TDs. What makes me lean towards his failure is that the problem seems to be with his head and not with his talent which is a huge problem for an NFL QB.

Grossman had 8 games that were 98 or higher qb rating, so how did he play poorly in all but six games? Gross is looking good, stepping into his throws and his overall mechanics are looking good. that was his first full year starting and you have to expect the ups and downs, maybe to the extent of what is was but you have to expect it. with the additions of greg olsen and i think hester can also help out, grossy is only going to get better. Lovie stuck with rex for a reason and they brought in a new qb coach to help him on those fundementals. they obviously have faith in rex. the only way i could imagine us taking a qb is if rex gets another season ending injury.

Joeyjr09
05-28-2007, 12:32 PM
Grossman had 8 games that were 98 or higher qb rating, so how did he play poorly in all but six games? Gross is looking good, stepping into his throws and his overall mechanics are looking good. that was his first full year starting and you have to expect the ups and downs, maybe to the extent of what is was but you have to expect it. with the additions of greg olsen and i think hester can also help out, grossy is only going to get better. Lovie stuck with rex for a reason and they brought in a new qb coach to help him on those fundementals. they obviously have faith in rex. the only way i could imagine us taking a qb is if rex gets another season ending injury.

I didn't say he was bad in all but six games. I said look at his last 6 games to see the inconsistentcy in his play.

If you really think Grossman looked good then you saw something different from every fan out there. He had a couple great games but he also had some gameswhere he plain and simply shouldn't even be in the NFL. You said we should expect up and downs and your right but you also need to expect more consistentcy and more smart decision out of a guy that had alreayd been in the NFL for 3 years and had already started for half a seasons worth of games. It's not like he was a rookie coming in. You need to expect more out of him and he just didn't deliver.

He had a 73.9 QB rating. That's just above Joey Harrington (68.1) and below Jon Kitna (79.9) Far from the good QB you make him out to be. He threw 20 INTs. More then 1 per game. That's just plain bad. Yea I expect more progress but he's still not even at David Carr level and Carr had a horrible offense around him outside of Andre Johnson. Grossman at least had Jones, Benson, Muhammed, Berrian and even Clark was a decent TE. Plus they have one of the best OLs in the league. Grossman is just not that good last season.

regoob2
05-28-2007, 02:03 PM
is said grossman IS LOOKING good. meaning now. obviously last year he wasnt consistent. thank you captian obvious thats the one millionth time we've all heard that. that was his only full year of actual game experience. ya hes been on the bears for 3 years but thats not live game experience. hes only gonna get better. im not reday to right him off after just one full year.

Joeyjr09
05-28-2007, 04:12 PM
is said grossman IS LOOKING good. meaning now. obviously last year he wasnt consistent. thank you captian obvious thats the one millionth time we've all heard that. that was his only full year of actual game experience. ya hes been on the bears for 3 years but thats not live game experience. hes only gonna get better. im not reday to right him off after just one full year.

Well excuse me if I thought you were referring to last season instead of meaningless mini camps. Who cares how he looks in mini camp. Even the scrubs look good in mini camp.

You keep saying it was his 1st full year of actual game experience but that does not give him an excuse. It's not like he's a rookie like VY or Leinhart or Cutler coming in and never even seeing the NFL. Grossman had 3 years to learn the NFL way of life and to learn the ins and outs of the offense, plus he had alreayd started and played in over 7 NFL games. It's not like he was coming in completely raw. HE had alreayd had some experience and had alot of time to learn and still he argueably looked worse then the 3 rookies from last season.

He was argueably on par or worse then David Carr and Joey Harrington even tho he had more talent around him. That's not good for a 3 year NFL vet that already has starting experience, albiet not a ton.

Stating he will only get better is completely ignorant because he has alreayd proven to loose focus and to be lazy at times. He could easily lean on his bad habits and play horribly all next season. Fact is, with how difficult the NFL is, he's more likely to fail then to succeed.

bearsfan_51
05-28-2007, 09:37 PM
So we're going to replace an incredibly inconsistant QB that we spent a 1st round pick on for another incredibly inconsistant QB that doesn't show up for big games?

No thanks. I'm fine with QB, but Henne needs a good season to be 1st round worthy.

Joeyjr09
05-29-2007, 05:02 PM
So we're going to replace an incredibly inconsistant QB that we spent a 1st round pick on for another incredibly inconsistant QB that doesn't show up for big games?

No thanks. I'm fine with QB, but Henne needs a good season to be 1st round worthy.

What whos to say he doesn't have a good season. He certainly has the talent in himself as well as the talent around him to put together a great year. Besides since when does what you do in college translate to how you will play in the NFL? There's plenty of heisman winners that failed in the NFL and plenty of small school no bodies that shine in the NFL.

Comparing Henne to Grossman as far as inconsistency goes should completely invalidate your post. Henne was solid all last season in college. Grossman was the most inconsistent QB in the entire NFL last season.

bearsfan_51
05-29-2007, 05:17 PM
Henne is incredibly inconsistant and doesn't play well against top college competition.

He's not a first rounder at this point, and while he could raise his stock, he hasn't yet, so it's a bad pick. Every single player *could* raise their stock, but if you already have to deal in speculations you're rationalizing a pick that isn't very good.

neko4
05-29-2007, 06:04 PM
Henne is incredibly inconsistant and doesn't play well against top college competition.

He's not a first rounder at this point, and while he could raise his stock, he hasn't yet, so it's a bad pick. Every single player *could* raise their stock, but if you already have to deal in speculations you're rationalizing a pick that isn't very good.

And giving Henne to CHI is even worse. If CHI drafts a QB its gonna be a guy who was consistent in order to replace Grossman, who has been like Henne so far.

brat316
05-29-2007, 08:26 PM
I think Chi would go in a diffrent direction other than qb, Ortan did good when he played why not give him another chance before drafting a qb, i think they should go with WR, with Musium Mahammad (sp) getting older, Berrian is pretty solid Wr, comming up big

Saftey would be another place they could go, also next yr.

regoob2
05-30-2007, 06:41 PM
What whos to say he doesn't have a good season. He certainly has the talent in himself as well as the talent around him to put together a great year. Besides since when does what you do in college translate to how you will play in the NFL? There's plenty of heisman winners that failed in the NFL and plenty of small school no bodies that shine in the NFL.

Comparing Henne to Grossman as far as inconsistency goes should completely invalidate your post. Henne was solid all last season in college. Grossman was the most inconsistent QB in the entire NFL last season.

so your saying that rex is more likely to have a bad season because he didnt lead the bears past a much better colts team with only 1 1/2 nfl seasons under his belt, but henne is more likely to have a better season because he has the talent around him to have a great year. didnt you say that grossman had more talent around him than harrington or carr. so wouldnt rex has the exact same chance to have a great season as henne. does the fact that your dumb and just plain dont like rex have anything to do with it because your kind of contradicting yourself.

you need actual game experience thats the only way your ever gonna get better in the nfl. theres a difference between telling someone how to do something and actual doing it. the only way to get game experience is by having game experience.

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 11:32 PM
I think Chi would go in a diffrent direction other than qb, Ortan did good when he played why not give him another chance before drafting a qb, i think they should go with WR, with Musium Mahammad (sp) getting older, Berrian is pretty solid Wr, comming up big

Saftey would be another place they could go, also next yr.
Kyle Orton is a piece of trash.

brat316
05-31-2007, 12:37 AM
u dont say

Modano
05-31-2007, 07:28 AM
9.)Dallas Cowboys (via Cle)-DeSean Jackson, WR California
27.)Dallas Cowboys-Andre Flullen, DL, Florida State


First pick: I think Cowboys will go WR or McFadden here. The connection between Arkansas and Jerry Jones is pretty high, and Jerry won't pass on an amazing prospect like him. You think the Browns will finish better than this past season so McFadden is out of question. In this scenario, a WR is a strong option, with LT being another one. I love Jackson and I think he's way better than Ginn as a receiver, he will have a great success in the NFL.

Second pick: Can he play NT? Because I think that will be the primary need for the Cowboys next year. Not another DE, but a NT.
Other prospects I think the cowboys will look for are Sweed (if we don't draft another WR), or Okam. I love Sweed but I don't think he will go that high, he will be picked in the Dwayne Bowe range. With Sweed the Cowboys will try to replace Owens, with Jackson Glenn.
CB and LT are legit options here too...

Joeyjr09
05-31-2007, 05:35 PM
so your saying that rex is more likely to have a bad season because he didnt lead the bears past a much better colts team with only 1 1/2 nfl seasons under his belt, but henne is more likely to have a better season because he has the talent around him to have a great year. didnt you say that grossman had more talent around him than harrington or carr. so wouldnt rex has the exact same chance to have a great season as henne. does the fact that your dumb and just plain dont like rex have anything to do with it because your kind of contradicting yourself.

you need actual game experience thats the only way your ever gonna get better in the nfl. theres a difference between telling someone how to do something and actual doing it. the only way to get game experience is by having game experience.

You keep bringing saying that I'm contradicting myself because I'm saying something about Grossman and I'm saying the opposite about Henne. However, you failed to realize that one is in the NFL and one is in college. It's gonna be a hell of a lot easier for Henne to put together a good season then it will for Grossman. Your trying to make references and connections between a guy that is playing in college and a guy that is playing in the NFL. It's like comparing apples to oranges.


As for me supposedly rationalizing the Henne pick by saying he could raise his stock but that it is a bad draft because he is not a 1st rounder at this point. You do realize the draft is 11 months away right? You cannot say that anyone is or isn't a 1st rounder at this point because the season hasn't even started and no sort of value has even begun to be established for them. Whos to say Henne isn't a 1st round pick next year? He certainly has the talent.

If Grossman goes on to play horrible next season and Henne plays lights out, you all will be screaming to draft him next year.

bearsfan_51
05-31-2007, 05:46 PM
As for me supposedly rationalizing the Henne pick by saying he could raise his stock but that it is a bad draft because he is not a 1st rounder at this point. You do realize the draft is 11 months away right? You cannot say that anyone is or isn't a 1st rounder at this point because the season hasn't even started and no sort of value has even begun to be established for them. Whos to say Henne isn't a 1st round pick next year? He certainly has the talent.
So basically you can say whatever you want and nobody can criticize you because "who knows what could happen".

Yeah...good one.

regoob2
05-31-2007, 07:52 PM
You keep bringing saying that I'm contradicting myself because I'm saying something about Grossman and I'm saying the opposite about Henne. However, you failed to realize that one is in the NFL and one is in college. It's gonna be a hell of a lot easier for Henne to put together a good season then it will for Grossman. Your trying to make references and connections between a guy that is playing in college and a guy that is playing in the NFL. It's like comparing apples to oranges.


As for me supposedly rationalizing the Henne pick by saying he could raise his stock but that it is a bad draft because he is not a 1st rounder at this point. You do realize the draft is 11 months away right? You cannot say that anyone is or isn't a 1st rounder at this point because the season hasn't even started and no sort of value has even begun to be established for them. Whos to say Henne isn't a 1st round pick next year? He certainly has the talent.

If Grossman goes on to play horrible next season and Henne plays lights out, you all will be screaming to draft him next year.

did i say henne wasnt a first rounder ever so what are you talking about. all your saying is grossman will have a bad year and henne will have a great year. what are you a psychic? how do you know this? grossman can also get better cant he? how do you know that henne will have a high chance of improving and grossman has a high chance of regressing? you dont all your doing is talking.

Joeyjr09
06-01-2007, 07:36 PM
So basically you can say whatever you want and nobody can criticize you because "who knows what could happen".

Yeah...good one.


You all are taking this way too far. This is a mock draft a year before the draft even happens. There's no way in hell all of this comes true. It's just made to spark debate about stuff that could happen and you have to understand that there a real chance Henne can play his way into being a 1st rounder and that Grossman could play his way out of the starting job.

regoob, you said I don't know what will happen and that all I'm doing is talking. Well how do you know that Rex won't suck and that Henne won't be a 1st round pick? You don't know that either, so all your doing is talking as well. Your not psychic either.

I mean damn guys, All I did was lay out a senario that could potentiall happen between now and next draft. Doesn't mean it will happen. Calm yourselves.

Obviously my idea wasn't very far fetched because it hit a nerve with you guys. If it was something idiotic like "Peyton Manning will play like Aaron Brooks" then it wouldn't even be talked about because nobody would think it's possible. But the fact that a few people are getting amped about this is because it's a real possibility or you would not waste your time even talking about it.

bearsfan_51
06-01-2007, 07:52 PM
I'm very calm. I'm sure anything could happen, and Grossman could very well play himself out of his starting spot, but it's not the most likely thing to happen, and if it is I don't we'll replace him in the first round unless it's good value, which at this point Henne would not be at all.

Joeyjr09
06-03-2007, 10:38 AM
I'm very calm. I'm sure anything could happen, and Grossman could very well play himself out of his starting spot, but it's not the most likely thing to happen, and if it is I don't we'll replace him in the first round unless it's good value, which at this point Henne would not be at all.

Alan Branch slipping out of round 1. Levi Brown going at number 5. Brady Quinn slipping to number 22. None of those things are options anyone even considered until the day of or a few days before the draft last year and still they happened.

I don't see you logic of Grossman is not likely to play bad so I should put it in my mock. He already played horribly last season. He could very likely play horribly again and lose his starting spot. It's alot more likely then you give it credit for. Plus who said the most likely thing to happen had to be what I put for a mock? Whats wrong with putting other ideas into the mock and m ixing it up?

You keep saying Henne is not a 1st round value at this point. Get this thru your head, no one is a 1st round value at this point. There is not value, the season has yet to start. We are just projecting what players values will be in a year for now.

I'm sure there's a few players that will be in round 1 that we aren't even talking about now and I'm sure there guys we are talking about now that will drop all the way to Day 2. We have no idea where the real value of these guys is going to be because they haven't even taken a snap yet.

regoob2
06-03-2007, 11:19 AM
how are you so sure that grossman will suck and henne will be a stud? its june any thing could happen. yes grossman could suck and henne could have a great season but as of now neither have happened. grossman has just as good of a chance of getting better just as henne could tank. theres no point to sit here and play the "what if" game. grossman does not have a lot of game experience I feel that he can and will get better. you obviously just dont like grossman. we'll have to just wait and see because he is obviously inconsistent at this point in his career and he could be consistently good or constintently bad, we'll just have to wait and see.

Joeyjr09
06-03-2007, 05:56 PM
how are you so sure that grossman will suck and henne will be a stud? its june any thing could happen. yes grossman could suck and henne could have a great season but as of now neither have happened. grossman has just as good of a chance of getting better just as henne could tank. theres no point to sit here and play the "what if" game. grossman does not have a lot of game experience I feel that he can and will get better. you obviously just dont like grossman. we'll have to just wait and see because he is obviously inconsistent at this point in his career and he could be consistently good or constintently bad, we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm not sure Grossman will suck and Henne will be a stud. It's just a sceneario where it could happen and it's certainly not a stretch to think it's possible. It's nothing personal against Grossman as you seem to suggest. It's just a situation that could happen. You just seem to blow it up into something bigger simply because you personally don't like the pick or idea.

you say there's no point to sit here and play the "what if" game. Isn't that the basis of all mock draft. What fi this player gets taken ahead of this player. What if player X steps up and eliminates the need at position X for whatever team. The entire mock is a "what if" game.

It's kinda sad that you all try to tear into me for an idea and situation that could happen and was made just for the topic of discussion just because plain and simple you don't like it.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with bringing in and idea and a idea into a mock this early just to spark discussion and you all have taken it pretty far with your "you just hate Grossman" remarks. Bottom line is that you just personally don't like the pick and don't what to see Grossman fail. There's nothing wrong with that but it doesn't mean that my thinking that he could falter is not a valid one as well.

brat316
06-03-2007, 08:45 PM
Calcis Campbell is a best do u guys think he might be switch it to olb, witch i see happeing. He might be the next shawn merrieman

regoob2
06-03-2007, 09:00 PM
hes way to big to play olb hes 6'8" 282 as of right now, i cant imagine his change of direction ability would be good enough to drop back into coverage.

Joeyjr09
06-03-2007, 09:56 PM
hes way to big to play olb hes 6'8" 282 as of right now, i cant imagine his change of direction ability would be good enough to drop back into coverage.

I'm a huge Cane fan and he definately has the athletic ability to play OLB. He bulked up to 280 this season, he was smaller last season. He is a freak of nature but it depends what scheme he falls into to determine where he will play. In a 4-3 system he is without a pure DE.

In a 3-4 system he could be extremely versitile. I don't think he would play OLB full time but he definately has the ability to play a hybrid Open End position. This would allow him to line up at OLB once in awhile and either blitz or do an occasional drop back into coverage. He could also line up at DE where he has the bulk for that spot but is still athletic enough to drop back into coverage from there or to just pin his ears back and rush the passer. He could be a terror in the 3-4 and he would give OC's headaches trying to figure out where he's coming from. He's athletic enough to do all this despite a fairly big frame and nice bulk.

regoob2
06-03-2007, 10:03 PM
has he ever dropped back into coverage before though? i don't know? and 3-4 de would be a waste of his ability, he will be best suited as a 4-3 DE.

draftguru151
06-04-2007, 09:00 AM
He is a pure 4-3 DE, he can play in a 3-4 but he wouldn't have first round value there. There are much better players for the 3-4 at both DE (Chris Long) and OLB (Harvey, Gholston) that are first rounders. A 3-4 team won't draft Campbell.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
06-04-2007, 11:17 AM
Chad Henne isn't consistent. If you draft him, then ur getting another Grossman. If you want consistent, then John David Booty is the pick.

Joeyjr09
06-04-2007, 07:04 PM
has he ever dropped back into coverage before though? i don't know? and 3-4 de would be a waste of his ability, he will be best suited as a 4-3 DE.

It's not something hes typically asked to do at Miami but he is one of the most athletically gifted players in the draft and I have no doubt he will be able to do it with some practice.

mqtirishfan
06-04-2007, 08:12 PM
It's not something hes typically asked to do at Miami but he is one of the most athletically gifted players in the draft and I have no doubt he will be able to do it with some practice.

He'd be able to do it, probably. However, he would never be the force he could be as a 4-3 DE, and would probably only make an average 3-4 OLB.

Joeyjr09
06-05-2007, 04:57 AM
He'd be able to do it, probably. However, he would never be the force he could be as a 4-3 DE, and would probably only make an average 3-4 OLB.

Read my earlier post. I don't think he'd be a full time 3-4 OLB. I think he'd be used more like Jason Taylor. A guy that can line up at DE, OLB, he can blitz, pass rush, drop into coverage. Not just stand up at OLB. I think he could be one of the better players in the league at that and would give OCs headaches.

4-3 is his main position and what he has thrived in. HE could explode in the NFL in a 4-3 defense, but I also think he could be great in the situation I just said above. It's more of a gamble but he has the type of talent you want to gamble on.

regoob2
06-05-2007, 06:36 PM
if i drafted campbell i would tell him the day he came into camp, Just get to the quarterback, thats it. I just dont see the elite versatility in him. he would be ight in a 3-4. i dont know if id spend a top 5-10 pick on that though.

Go_Eagles77
06-07-2007, 03:17 PM
The eagles are gonna need run stoppers and Rivers is a bit undersized.

Mr. Stiller
06-07-2007, 07:00 PM
16.)Pittsburgh Steelers-Lawrence Jackson, DE, Southern California


I don't htink Lawrence Jackson can play ROLB... I think he's Strictly a 4-3 DE.

I would say we need Tommy Blake or a good LT (Richardson/Hills)

Joeyjr09
06-08-2007, 04:57 PM
I don't htink Lawrence Jackson can play ROLB... I think he's Strictly a 4-3 DE.

I would say we need Tommy Blake or a good LT (Richardson/Hills)

The idea is for them to get more players for a 4-3 defense as that seems to b e the future direction the team is heading in

Phrost
06-08-2007, 05:05 PM
Kenny Phillips would be higher than Baker on the Bucs board I think.

Mr. Stiller
06-09-2007, 02:18 PM
The idea is for them to get more players for a 4-3 defense as that seems to b e the future direction the team is heading in

Why does everyone think we're going to run a 4-3.

Even if we did, we already have 2 solid DE's(LaMarr Woodley and Brett Keisel), with McBean as a situational DE.

LeBeau is supposed to be retiring soon, BUT, Keith Butler the LB Coach, is supposed to be next in line and he's a 3-4 guy as well.

I don't think we're switching to a 4-3 anytime soon, I think we'll play some 4-3 looks. But we're going to run basically a Colts-like offense, with a Ravens-Like defense.