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View Full Version : Who is #1 Player for each Position?


Donno
05-17-2007, 09:28 PM
These are the following imo.

QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDainain Tomlinson
FB - Mike Alstott
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kruetz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Shawne Merriman
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Acreboy
05-17-2007, 09:41 PM
These are the following imo.

QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDainain Tomlinson
FB - Mike Alstott
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Chad Hutchinson
C - Olin Kruetz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Shawne Merriman
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed
I think for OLB you should specify SLB and WLB and for S, FS and SS

skinzzfan25
05-17-2007, 09:47 PM
I'd take Ovie, Strong, Neal or Sellers (homer, but I still would) over Alstott.

boisefan
05-17-2007, 09:52 PM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LT
FB - Alstott
WR - Chad Johnson (he backs up his talk, and has the height)
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Chad Hutchinson
C - Olin Kruetz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Shawne Merriman
MLB - Brian Urlacher (One of the best to ever play IMO)
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Sean Taylor and Ed Reed are too close for me to name

Most of your picks were fairly good, so I stayed with them.

SFbear
05-17-2007, 09:57 PM
MLB - Brian Urlacher (One of the best to ever play IMO)


Please don't. For the integrity of Bears fans everywhere I implore you.

EdReedUnstoppable
05-17-2007, 09:59 PM
QB- Carson Palmer (When healthy there is no better QB)
RB- Willis McGahee......Oh you want the best RB not the worst, Its obviously LaDanian Tomlinson
FB- Lorenzo Neal
WR- Terrell Owens
TE- Antonio Gates

DE- Julius Peppers
DT- Marcus Stroud
OLB- Adalius Thomas (IMO he is the all around total package, miss him already)
MLB- Ray Lewis (hate all ya want)
CB- Champ Bailey
S- Ed Reed

Don Vito
05-17-2007, 10:00 PM
QB-Peyton Manning
RB-LT
FB-Lorenzo Neal
WR-Torry Holt
TE-Antonio Gates
LT-Jon Ogden
LG-Alan Faneca
C-Olin Kreutz
RG-Shawn Andrews
RT-Willie Anderson

DE-Julius Peppers (4-3), Richard Seymour (3-4)
DT-Tommie Harris (UT), Jamal Williams (NT)
WLB-Derrick Johnson
MLB-Brian Urlacher
SLB-DJ Williams (before the move to MLB this offseason)
CB-Champ Bailey
FS-Sean Taylor
SS-Ed Reed

sodar21
05-17-2007, 10:27 PM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDainain Tomlinson
FB - Mike Alstott
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Orlando Pace
OG - Chad Hutchinson
C - LeCharles Bentley
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Julian Peterson
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

papa burgundy
05-17-2007, 10:28 PM
http://images.sportsnetwork.com/football/nfl/allsport/bears/hutchinson_chad.jpg

that chad hutchinson is a hell of a guard

remix 6
05-17-2007, 10:34 PM
Easy

QB - Brady/Peyton..cant go wrong
RB - Tomlinson
FB - Neal
WR - Holt
TE - Gates
OT - Jones
OG - Andrews
OC - Kreutz

DE - Peppers
DT - J. Williams
OLB - A. Thomas
MLB - Urlacher
CB - Bailey
FS - Reed
SS - Wilson

K - Gould
P: who cares

KR: Hester
PR: Hester

Forzy
05-17-2007, 10:35 PM
No WR remix?

Ewing
05-17-2007, 10:38 PM
K - Gould


You honestly think Gould is better than Vinatieri?

bearsfan_51
05-17-2007, 10:44 PM
I love how three people put Chad Hutchison........

That alone should probably disqualify you from making a "best of anything" list.

Sniper
05-17-2007, 10:47 PM
QB: Tom Brady
RB - LaDainian Tomlinson
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Shawn Andrews
C - Olin Kreutz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Adalius Thomas
MLB - Ray Lewis
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Sean Considine...kidding Ed Reed

fenikz
05-17-2007, 10:50 PM
QB: Tom Brady
RB - LaDainian Tomlinson
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Shawn Andrews
C - Olin Kreutz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Adalius Thomas
MLB - Ray Lewis
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Sean Considine...kidding Ed Reed

i agree(10)

bearsfan_51
05-17-2007, 10:52 PM
Ray Lewis, as of now, is not even close to as good as Urlacher. This is not insulting Lewis' career as a whole, or saying that Urlacher is as good now as Lewis was, it's just a fact.

bearfan
05-17-2007, 10:55 PM
QB: Rex Grossman
RB - Cedric Benson
FB - Jason McKie
WR - Devin Hester
TE - Greg Olson
OT - John Tait
OG - Josh Beekman
C - Olin Kreutz
DE - Mark Anderson
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Michael Okwo
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Nathan Vasher
S - Chris Harris

Oh wow, didnt even notice they're all Bears ;)

Ewing
05-17-2007, 10:56 PM
Ray Lewis, as of now, is not even close to as good as Urlacher. This is not insulting Lewis' career as a whole, or saying that Urlacher is as good now as Lewis was, it's just a fact.

I'm going to agree with that; the only MLB who is better than Urlacher currently would be Vilma if he was in 4-3. Also, what's up with the boners for Thomas all of the sudden? He's good but he's not better than Merriman, Bulluck, Peterson, or a few others.

P-L
05-17-2007, 10:59 PM
QB: Manning/Brady
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Marvin Harrison
TE: Antonio Gates
OT: Walter Jones (He's declining, but I think he's still #1 at the moment)
OG: Shawn Andrews
C: Olin Kreutz

DE: Julius Peppers
DT: Jamal Williams
OLB: Adalius Thomas / Shawne Merriman
MLB: Brian Urlacher
CB: Champ Bailey
S: Ed Reed

cunningham06
05-17-2007, 11:18 PM
I like the love I'm seeing for Shawn Andrews, the Big Kid jumped up high on a bunch of peoples lists.

HoopsDemon12
05-17-2007, 11:19 PM
QB = Peyton Manning
RB = LT
FB = Lorenzo Neal
WR = Torry Holt
TE = Antonio Gates
OT = Walter Jones
OG = Steve Hutchinson
C = LeCharles Bentley(even with the injury)
DE = Julius Peppers
UT = Tommie Harris
NT = Casey Hampton
OLB's = Derrick Brooks, Shawne Merriman(couldnt remember who if one plays WLB and the other plays SLB so i covered the two best)
ILB = Brian Urlacher
CB = Champ Bailey
S = Ed Reed
K = Ryan Lindell (k a teeny bit of homerism..)
P = Brian Moorman (not a homer pick i actually think he is amazing!! but Dan Sepulveda is gonan be a beast!!! he is my new favortie speacial teamer i cant wait to see him light up a returner..two years he'll be in this spot IMO)
KR = Devin Hester
PR = Devin Hester

Sniper
05-17-2007, 11:26 PM
Wow completely forgot about Merriman. I'm ********. But I still like Thomas's versatility. Urlacher may be better, but I was going with someone different and Ray Lewis still scares the hell out of me, giving him the edge

Seasonticketholder
05-17-2007, 11:27 PM
These are the following imo.

QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDainain Tomlinson
FB - Mike Alstott
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Chad Hutchinson
C - Olin Kruetz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Shawne Merriman
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Walter Jones has declined a lot over the years. I would put Jammal Brown over him as the top OT in the league. There are a number of guys who should go before Alstott as the top FB in the league. Also, I think it will be difficult to put up a list that isn't rife with controversy simply because you have guys who excel in a 3-4 and guys excel in a 4-3. For instance, Richard Seymour might not be the sack artist that Peppers is, but he is extremely valuable inside a 3-4 defense. Tommie Harris becomes the sexy pick at DT but guys like Jamal Williams and Casey Hampton are just as much of a force. Don't forget about Kevin Williams with the Vikes. I think it would probably be easier listing the top 5 guys at each position, but who wants to do that?!?!

Dam8610
05-17-2007, 11:30 PM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDainian Tomlinson
WR - Marvin Harrison (Top 3 in receptions, receiving yards, and receiving TDs last year, no one else was top 5 in all 3 categories, and his career body of work speaks for itself)
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kreutz/Jeff Saturday

DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Julian Peterson
MLB - Brian Urlacher (any MLB that can be a superstar in a Tampa 2 has to be a freakish talent)
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Sniper
05-17-2007, 11:50 PM
Harrison is way too soft for my liking. Get physical with him and he disappears

wogitalia
05-18-2007, 01:28 AM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - State the bleedingly obvious
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Marvin Harrison
OT - Marcus McNeil
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Nick Mangold
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Vince Wilfork
OLB - Shawne Merriman/AJ Hawk
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Surprisingly little debate at most positions.

TheChampIsHere
05-18-2007, 01:36 AM
QB - Peyton
HB - LT
FB - Neal
TE - Gates
WR - Chad
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Hutch
C - Kreutz

DE - Peppers
DT - Henderson
OLB - Merriman
MLB - Ray Ray
CB - Champ
S - Reed

VPF
05-18-2007, 02:06 AM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - State the bleedingly obvious
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Marvin Harrison
OT - Marcus McNeil
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Nick Mangold
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Vince Wilfork
OLB - Shawne Merriman/AJ Hawk
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Surprisingly little debate at most positions.

i aree. very surprising. 3 rookies from last year make the all-nfl team. whats most surprising though is a vikings fan putting aj hawk on the list

Modano
05-18-2007, 02:39 AM
QB - Chad Hutchinson
OG - Steve Hutchinson
WR - Kenneth Hutchinson

BlindSite
05-18-2007, 02:53 AM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDanian Tomlinson
WR - Steve Smith
TE - Gonzalez
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kreutz

DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Shaun Rogers (when motivated) or stroud
WLB (43) - Will Witherspoon
MLB - Brian Urlacher
OLB (34) - Shawne Merriman
CB - Champ Bailey
FS - Ed Reed
SS - Adrian Wilson

Finsfan79
05-18-2007, 08:48 AM
no love by anyone for Jason Taylor? He only won Defensive PoY

QB Peyton
WR Holy
RB LT
FB Neal
OT Walter Jones
C Kreutz
OG Hutchinson

Addict
05-18-2007, 09:18 AM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDanian Tomlinson
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Steve Smith/Torry Holt
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kreutz

DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Marcus Stroud/Vince Wilfork
WLB - Derrick Brooks (in a 4-3, he can play in that right?)
MLB - Brian Urlacher
OLB - Shawne Merriman (in a 3-4)
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Draft King
05-18-2007, 09:37 AM
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Steve Smith
TE: Antonio Gates
OT: Orlando Pace
OG: Steve Hutchinson
C: Olin Kreutz

DE: Julius Peppers
DT: John Henderson
OLB: Shawne Merriman
MLB: Brian Urlacher
CB: Champ Bailey
S: Ed Reed

Bengals1690
05-18-2007, 09:47 AM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LT
FB - Alstott
WR - Chad Johnson (he backs up his talk, and has the height)
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Walter Jones
OG - Chad Hutchinson
C - Olin Kruetz
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Tommie Harris
OLB - Shawne Merriman
MLB - Brian Urlacher (One of the best to ever play IMO)
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Sean Taylor and Ed Reed are too close for me to name

Most of your picks were fairly good, so I stayed with them.

chad johnson is only 6'1. thats pretty much average for a reciever.


anyways, the best are obvious. im going to make an all second-level team.

QB- Carson Palmer
RB- Stephen Jackson
WR- Anquan Boldin
WR-Santana Moss
WR- Braylon Edwards
TE- Alge Crumpler
OT- Levi Jones
OG- Alan Faneca
C- Nick Mangold
OG- Logan Mankins
OT- Dbrick


DE- Simeon Rice
NT- VInce Wilfork
DT- Mike Patterson
DE- Osi Umenyora (sp?)
OLB- Derrick Brooks
MLB- Nick Barnett
OLB- Julian Peterson
CB- Rasheen Mathis
FS- Bob Sanders
SS- Sean Jones
CB- Jonathon Joseph (had to have one homer pick right?)

Space Ghost
05-18-2007, 10:05 AM
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Ladanian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Marvin Harrison
TE: Antonio Gates
OT: Jamaal Brown
OG: Shawn Andrews
C: Olin Kreutz

43DE: Jason Taylor
34DE: Ty Warren
DT: John Henderson
NT: Jamaal Williams
34OLB: Shawn Merriman
34ILB: Larry Foote
43OLB: Julian Peterson
43ILB: Brian Urlacher
CB: Champ Bailey
FS: Ed Reed
SS: Adrian Wilson

K: Adam Vinatieri
P: Brian Moorman
KR: Devin Hester

Nitschke-Hawk
05-18-2007, 10:24 AM
QB- Tom Brady-has done more with less than anybody in recent memory.
RB- LT-duh
WR- Steve Smith-this time last year was being called the best by everybody.
WR- Chad Johnson-a do it all receiver
TE- Antonio Gates-almost unstoppable
LT-Marcus McNiel -could go w/ a pop. name but no LT dominated like he did.
LG- Steve Hutchinson-tempted to put Faneca here
C- Olin Kreutz
RG- Shawn Andrews
RT- Mark Tauscher-at a position regarded as a revolving door on most teams he's been starting since his rookie year as a 6th round pick, with results.


DE- Aaron Kampman-the stats don't lie folks
NT- Jamal Williams-a man and a half
DT- Richard Seymour-versatility, of course he can play 4-3 DT!
DE- Julius Peppers-beastly, give a 3-4 look, rush him & Merriman, yikes!

SLB- Shawne Merriman-some flaws in coverage, but everybody else is great in coverage, you won't run on him, plus he'll knock out the opposing QB.
MLB- Brian Urlacher-Wish I could Lewis here, but Urlacher sits atop the throne
WLB- Julian Peterson-Best WLB, quit putting D. Brooks, if he's the best then so is Ray Lewis.

CB- Chris MaCalister (sp?)-still the 2nd best corner.
S- Ed Reed
S- Brian Dawkins
CB- Champ Bailey-duh

HoopsDemon12
05-18-2007, 10:31 AM
[QUOTE=Finsfan79;402501]no love by anyone for Jason Taylor? He only won Defensive PoY

Ya there is no denying that he is a great player, but he is not the best any any position... he is kinda a hybrid OLB and DE now not a pure defensive end like he used to be.

Acreboy
05-18-2007, 10:39 AM
QB:Peyton Manning
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Chad Johnson
TE: Antonio Gates
OT: Walter Jones
OG: Shawn Andrews
C: Olin Kreutz

DE: Julius Peppers
DT: Jon Henderson
OLB: Demarcus Ware
MLB: Brian Urlacher
CB: Champ Bailey
S: Ed Reed

sodar21
05-18-2007, 10:56 AM
I'm going to agree with that; the only MLB who is better than Urlacher currently would be Vilma if he was in 4-3. Also, what's up with the boners for Thomas all of the sudden? He's good but he's not better than Merriman, Bulluck, Peterson, or a few others.

People forget Peterson is an equally "freakish" athlete and he too can play multiple positions on the field among other things. He doesn't get much attention playing out in Seattle.

T-RICH49
05-18-2007, 11:06 AM
QB: Peyton
HB: LT
FB: Neal
TE: Tony Gonzalez (he can still put up numbers with the best of then and is about to break a few TE recieveing records)
WR: Chad Johnson
OT: Walter Jones
OG: Steve Hutchenson
C: Olin Kruetz


DE: Dwight Freeney
DT: John Henderson
OLB: DeMarcus Ware
MLB: Brian Urlacher
CB: Champ Bailey
S: Ed Reed

The Legend
05-18-2007, 11:28 AM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - LaDainain Tomlinson
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Chad Johnson
TE - Kellen Winslow
LT - Jonathan Odgen
LG - Mike Wahle
C - Olin Kruetz
RG - Randy Thomas
RT - Willie Anderson
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Kevin Williams
OLB - Jason Taylor
MLB - Ray Lewis
CB - Champ Bailey
FS - Brian Dawkins
SS - Ed Reed
K - Adam Vinatieri
P - Shane Lechler
KR - Devin Hester
PR - Devin Hester
ST - Gary Stills
HC - Bill Belichick
OC - Tom Moore
(3-4)DC - Rex Ryan
(4-3)DC - Monte Kiffin

Vikes99ej
05-18-2007, 11:33 AM
QB- Peyton Manning
RB- LaTainian Domlinson
FB- Mack Strong
WR- Steve Smith
OT- Orlando Pace
OG- Steve Hutchinson
C- Olin Kreutz

DE- Julius Peppers
DT- Kevin Williams
OLB- Adalius Thomas
MLB- Brian Urlacher
CB- Champ Bailey
S- Ed Reed

K- Adam Vinitieri
P- Who cares

keylime_5
05-18-2007, 01:23 PM
QB-Manning
RB-Tomlinson
FB-Neal
WR-C.Johnson
TE-Gates
OT-Pace
OG-Hutch
C-kreutz
DE-Peppers
DT-Seymour
OLB-Merriman
ILB-Urlacher
CB-Bailey
S-Reed

reese
05-18-2007, 02:03 PM
it really blows my mind how many ppl think urlacher is the best mlb.....2 or 3 years ago he was no.1 on cbs sportslines most overrated player..which i completely agree with...im not sayin he is bad but he is not the best id take ray lewis and zach thomas over over him with out havin to think about it..now im about to give u some numbers to back up my opinion and dont say he has lesser stats becuz he gets double teamed or anything stupid like that becuz RL and ZT get every bit as much attention from offenses that he does....

ray lewis has avg..9.3 tkls a game over his career he has had at least 150 tkls in 4 of his 12 seasons....zach thomas has avg 9.6 tkls a game and has had 150 tkls or more in 6 of his 12 seasons...urlacher has avg 7.3 tkls a game and has had at least 150 tkls only once in his 8 seasons...also briggs actually had more solo tkls this year then urlacher...id be willin to be that zt has let had an olb on his team have more tkls then him....again im not sayin urlacher is bad....but ppl get carried away i think...i dont kno if its cuz he plays for the bears and they have a history with mlbs or what but he is not the best and im open for anyone to point out even 1 thing that shows he is better then the 2 i named

Phrost
05-18-2007, 02:04 PM
Please just skip the QB position. Manning/Brady will start arguments that will take over the thread.

reese
05-18-2007, 02:13 PM
i love the fact that ive seen as many as 3 uga players on ppls list....mack strong, champ and seymour

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:16 PM
it really blows my mind how many ppl think urlacher is the best mlb.....2 or 3 years ago he was no.1 on cbs sportslines most overrated player..which i completely agree with...im not sayin he is bad but he is not the best id take ray lewis and zach thomas over over him with out havin to think about it..now im about to give u some numbers to back up my opinion and dont say he has lesser stats becuz he gets double teamed or anything stupid like that becuz RL and ZT get every bit as much attention from offenses that he does....

ray lewis has avg..9.3 tkls a game over his career he has had at least 150 tkls in 4 of his 12 seasons....zach thomas has avg 9.6 tkls a game and has had 150 tkls or more in 6 of his 12 seasons...urlacher has avg 7.3 tkls a game and has had at least 150 tkls only once in his 8 seasons...also briggs actually had more solo tkls this year then urlacher...id be willin to be that zt has let had an olb on his team have more tkls then him....again im not sayin urlacher is bad....but ppl get carried away i think...i dont kno if its cuz he plays for the bears and they have a history with mlbs or what but he is not the best and im open for anyone to point out even 1 thing that shows he is better then the 2 i named

Donnie Edwards consistently is in the top five in tackles in the NFL. He's not the best, or one of the best MLB though, because stats, especially tackles are not what defines a player.

In addition you are using career numbers when the thread is asking for the best player right now. I'm not doing the research right now, but I'd be willing to bet Lewis' and Thomas' recent tackling stats are not as high as you have them for their careers.

reese
05-18-2007, 02:17 PM
Donnie Edwards consistently is in the top five in tackles in the NFL. He's not the best, or one of the best MLB though, because stats, especially tackles are not what defines a player.

In addition you are using career numbers when the thread is asking for the best player right now. I'm not doing the research right now, but I'd be willing to bet Lewis' and Thomas' recent tackling stats are not as high as you have them for their careers.

go ahead and look ZT has more tkls over the last 5 years then BL

reese
05-18-2007, 02:20 PM
donnie edwards avg about 7.5 tkls a game and has 3 of his 12 seasons over 150...but 1 reasons he has so many tkls is he has only missed like 3 games in 12 years

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:20 PM
go ahead and look ZT has more tkls over the last 5 years then BL

Okay...over the last five years. What a player did in 2001, 2002 has no bearing on the current player they are.

Urlacher is also the anchor of the strongest defense in the past 2-3 years, which is why he gets a lot of the credit he does.

And tackles are not a reliable, or strong, indicator of a player's ability or impact by any means. If it was than Edwards would be the best MLB in the NFL for the past couple years....but he clearly has not been.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:21 PM
donnie edwards avg about 7.5 tkls a game and has 3 of his 12 seasons over 150...but 1 reasons he has so many tkls is he has only missed like 3 games in 12 years

Right, but then his tkls a game stats are adjusted accordinly to the games he played...just like Lewis' and Thomas' would be. And still, tackles...not a great indicator of talent.

reese
05-18-2007, 02:23 PM
last 5 years...ZT 776 TKLS....BL 599....thats a pretty big difference

reese
05-18-2007, 02:26 PM
ok we will go with 2006 then ZT 165 tkls BL 141...and how do u figure tkls isnt a good indicator? that doesnt even make any sense...so i guess a lb with less tkls is better then one with more? and im not talkin about 1 season either...

reese
05-18-2007, 02:28 PM
and edwards hasnt had more tkls then thomas or lewis

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:29 PM
last 5 years...ZT 776 TKLS....BL 599....thats a pretty big difference

Right, and like I said....tackles do not indicate a players ability on defense. There are so many other factor that go into being a defensive player, and the best around at that.

I haven't said that ZT and RL aren't great players, but they aren't as good as Urlacher anymore. You can chalk up ZT's tackles to anything, more plays on defense, less impact players around him that force him to make all the tackles, more teams run against them, etc. Tackles are not a good stat to judge players by...no stats are good to judge players by.

Kitna threw for more yards then Carson Palmer last year, Cato June had more tackles then Urlacher, but no one would say he's a better player just based off of that.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:32 PM
ok we will go with 2006 then ZT 165 tkls BL 141...and how do u figure tkls isnt a good indicator?
And how do I figure tackles aren't a good indicator? Because of all the external factors regarding the tackles, and the actaul innacuracies involved with that kind of stat-keeping, thats how. A better indicator, if you are going to use tackles, are solo tackles. In which, last year Thomas had 103 to Urlacher's 92. Not a huge difference.

that doesnt even make any sense...so i guess a lb with less tkls is better then one with more? and im not talkin about 1 season either...

Don't try and make a ridiculous absurd statement to make it sound like what I am saying is absurd, its not. Why would I ever say that less tackles is better? I said the innacuraices, and exterior factors that go into tackles make it a relatviely insignifcant stat, not that it carries no weight.

reese
05-18-2007, 02:33 PM
Right, and like I said....tackles do not indicate a players ability on defense. There are so many other factor that go into being a defensive player, and the best around at that.

I haven't said that ZT and RL aren't great players, but they aren't as good as Urlacher anymore. You can chalk up ZT's tackles to anything, more plays on defense, less impact players around him that force him to make all the tackles, more teams run against them, etc. Tackles are not a good stat to judge players by...no stats are good to judge players by.

Kitna threw for more yards then Carson Palmer last year, Cato June had more tackles then Urlacher, but no one would say he's a better player just based off of that.

ok like i said im not talkin about 1 years worth of stats..anyone can have a good year. but ZT consitantly has put up better numbers and to say numbers dont matter isnt smart...i guess we should down play LT scoring alot of tds becuz he gets the ball alot....or manning throwing for alot or yards cuz the colts pass alot...its not like were talkin about a handfull of tkls almost 200 more over the past 5 years come on now

CC.SD
05-18-2007, 02:36 PM
QB - Peyton Manning
RB - State the bleedingly obvious
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Marvin Harrison
OT - Marcus McNeil
OG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Nick Mangold
DE - Julius Peppers
DT - Vince Wilfork
OLB - Shawne Merriman/AJ Hawk
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

Surprisingly little debate at most positions.


I'm a Charger fan and even I wouldn't take Marcus McNeill over Walter Jones, Pace, Ogden or even Roaf off his couch. Maybe in a few years. The kid IS dominant, and was playing with two broken hands.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:38 PM
ok like i said im not talkin about 1 years worth of stats..anyone can have a good year. but ZT consitantly has put up better numbers and to say numbers dont matter isnt smart...i guess we should down play LT scoring alot of tds becuz he gets the ball alot....or manning throwing for alot or yards cuz the colts pass alot...its not like were talkin about a handfull of tkls almost 200 more over the past 5 years come on now

I didn't once say numbers weren't important, or anything like that so just stop putting words in my mouth.

Who cares what player has put up better numbers....Like I said Edwards has consistently put up better numbers then Urlacher, don't honestly tell me you'd rather have him then Urlacher. Stats are influenced by a lot of factors, and your bringing LT into the argument, or Manning doesn't change that. Should we disregard their numbers? If we're arguing whose the better player on stats alone then yes, we should. LT does touch the ball more in the redzone, it makes him more likely to score. The Colts do have a good passing attack, it makes it easier for Manning to succeed.

I don't care about their five year numbers, I don't care too much about their numbers....I acknowledge them but I don't judge a linebacker based on tackles alone.

reese
05-18-2007, 02:44 PM
ok well if u dont judge a LB by tkls then what do u judge him by? what does a LB have to do to be the best besides be 6'4 250 and wear number 54 and play for the bears

MaxV
05-18-2007, 02:44 PM
Harrison is way too soft for my liking. Get physical with him and he disappears

WOW, what a stupid statement.

If this was true then he wouldn't be able to put up monster numbers in EVERY season.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:49 PM
ok well if u dont judge a LB by tkls then what do u judge him by? what does a LB have to do to be the best besides be 6'4 250 and wear number 54 and play for the bears

Stupid statement. Leadership, impact plays, clutch-ness, pass defense, ability to get the D off the field....a number of intagibles that aren't statistics.

Tackles are a way to judge a LB, jesus I didn't say they weren't, but you haven't made any points aside from those that Thomas has had more tackles, which could be chalked up to less talent around him then Urlacher, which has allowed him to get more tackles.

EDIT: Also, for the record I'm not saying ZT isn't a good, top 5 linebacker....I just don't think he's number one, or that there is even a clear cut number one linebacker.

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 02:49 PM
QB- Peyton Manning
RB- LT
FB- Lorenzo Neal
WR- Marvin Harrison
TE- Antonio Gates
OT- Orlando Pace
OG- Alan Faneca
C- Olin Kruetz

DE- Julius Peppers
DT- John Henderson
NT- Jamal Williams
OE- Jason Taylor
5DE- Richard Seymour
RLB- Shawne Merriman
OLB- Julian Peterson
MLB- Brian Urlacher
ILB- Zach Thomas
CB- Champ Bailey
S- Ed Reed

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 02:51 PM
Stupid statement. Leadership, impact plays, clutch-ness, pass defense, ability to get the D off the field....a number of intagibles that aren't statistics.

Tackles are a way to judge a LB, jesus I didn't say they weren't, but you haven't made any points aside from those that Thomas has had more tackles, which could be chalked up to less talent around him then Urlacher, which has allowed him to get more tackles.

Well Miami consistently has a top 5 defense, so it isn't really talent. Tackles aren't the best way to evaluate LBs though, it's part of the convo, but like all stats it's not all of it.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:53 PM
Well Miami consistently has a top 5 defense, so it isn't really talent. Tackles aren't the best way to evaluate LBs though, it's part of the convo, but like all stats it's not all of it.

True, Chicago does as well, so that might be more of an irrelevant point...like I said I won't lie I haven't done a lot of research going into this conversation so I won't pretend to be an expert on that...

My main irritation with this argument is that it has revolved around nothing but statistics.

reese
05-18-2007, 02:54 PM
so ur sayin BL is a better leader, makes more impact plays, and all that stuff then ZT? how can u prove that? u dont kno if BL or ZT is a good leader. they probley both r but there sure isnt a way to prove who is more of a leader. how could BU make more impact plays when he doesnt make as many plays as ZT. obviously is thomas is makin more tkls then he is makin more plays simply cuz of odds if anything...i mean 20 some odd more tkls this past season means 20 some odd more chances to make an impact play...

reese
05-18-2007, 02:55 PM
True, Chicago does as well, so that might be more of an irrelevant point...like I said I won't lie I haven't done a lot of research going into this conversation so I won't pretend to be an expert on that...

My main irritation with this argument is that it has revolved around nothing but statistics.

thats cuz stats are the only thing u can prove...like i said u can prove who is a better leader or any of the other intangibles u listed

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 02:56 PM
so ur sayin BL is a better leader, makes more impact plays, and all that stuff then ZT? how can u prove that? u dont kno if BL or ZT is a good leader. they probley both r but there sure isnt a way to prove who is more of a leader. how could BU make more impact plays when he doesnt make as many plays as ZT. obviously is thomas is makin more tkls then he is makin more plays simply cuz of odds if anything...i mean 20 some odd more tkls this past season means 20 some odd more chances to make an impact play...

He is just saying that there are more than tackles when it comes to judging LBs.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:57 PM
so ur sayin BL is a better leader, makes more impact plays, and all that stuff then ZT? how can u prove that? u dont kno if BL or ZT is a good leader. they probley both r but there sure isnt a way to prove who is more of a leader. how could BU make more impact plays when he doesnt make as many plays as ZT. obviously is thomas is makin more tkls then he is makin more plays simply cuz of odds if anything...i mean 20 some odd more tkls this past season means 20 some odd more chances to make an impact play...

Okay I really don't want to be a spelling nazi here, but you have to type neater so I can understand your argument.

It's not an easy thing to prove, but in terms of being a leader, you could look at how Urlacher led a defense that carried the team to the Super Bowl. He wasn't the only factor in that, but he sure as hell helped.

Besides, those weren't all categories I said urlacher is better in. I said there are other ways then tackles to judge a player, which you refused to admit.

And don't give me any odds BS like that, thats ridiculous, 20 more tackles means nothing considering impact plays don't have to be tackles, they could be deflected passes, taking on a blocker that freed up a teamate to make a tackle, anything like that.

JK17
05-18-2007, 02:58 PM
thats cuz stats are the only thing u can prove...like i said u can prove who is a better leader or any of the other intangibles u listed

You can prove stats, but they don't mean the whole thing. Whatever though, you seem convicned its the only way of measuring a player.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:01 PM
if u cant read what i said then ur ignorant or tryin to be funny cuz im willin to bet nobody else has trouble reading it...and just cuz they went to the super bowl doesnt mean he is a better leader...is rex grossman a better leader then other qbs cuz he 'led' the bears to the super bowl?

reese
05-18-2007, 03:02 PM
You can prove stats, but they don't mean the whole thing. Whatever though, you seem convicned its the only way of measuring a player.

one thing u have yet to do is tell me 1 single thing that u kno for a fact that BU is better then ZT....im just askin for 1 that u kno for sure

JK17
05-18-2007, 03:03 PM
if u cant read what i said then ur ignorant or tryin to be funny cuz im willin to bet nobody else has trouble reading it...and just cuz they went to the super bowl doesnt mean he is a better leader...is rex grossman a better leader then other qbs cuz he 'led' the bears to the super bowl?

No...but punctuation, capitalizing errors, and common sense grammatical mistakes makes things easier to understand, not that I couldn't figure it out.

Um, as far as the leadership/SB thing, I said there were other factors it was just one thing. And no, it wouldn't make Rex a better QB, I said it was the defense that got them there, so that is certainly in Urlachers argument.

Jesus, just back off your ridiculous idea that stats are the only way to judge a player....they're not.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:04 PM
I did not know that I needed to write my post with the same care that I write my english papers.

JK17
05-18-2007, 03:07 PM
one thing u have yet to do is tell me 1 single thing that u kno for a fact that BU is better then ZT....im just askin for 1 that u kno for sure

Could've been included in your other post, didn't need to make a second just for this, but fine.

One thing Urlacher does better is cover the pass....since you said for a fact the only thing I can use as a fact is stats, since everything else is opinion (like it should be). But urlacher is better in coverage then Thomas, last year he had 3 interceptions to Thomas' 0, and over the past 3 years he has 4 to Thomas' 2.

But I'm not aruging stats, the rest is opinion and you can debate it however you want...but you started off and continued your argument solely on stats, which is why I got in this argument in the first place, not neccesarily because I feel strongly about either player, just that personally I see Urlacher to be the better player, based on how I view his intagibles.

SFbear
05-18-2007, 03:08 PM
Cato June had more tackles than Lance Briggs in 2006. 142 vs. 134

I dare you to find me someone who says that Cato June is a better OLB or even in the same ball park as Lance Briggs.

Even when comparing the same position in identical schemes, tackles are a horrible metric. There isn't an adequate metric for quantifying linebackers so all you can do is watch them play and make decisions form there. I think if you wanted to assign a metric to linebackers you would have to compile a percentage of missed tackles for amount of plays involved in. Even then you would be neglecting the coverage aspect of modern linebackers.

JK17
05-18-2007, 03:09 PM
I did not know that I needed to write my post with the same care that I write my english papers.

Whatever you don't just make it intellgible. Okay, I gotta get going I have somewhere to be tonight, I'll leave you saying that I don't care about your stats argument as a reason for Thomas being better. Personally I see Urlacher as a better leader and player, if you don't thats your opinion, I'm not forcing Urlacher down your throat. I just want you to back off your argument that tackles are the only indication of a player's ability.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:14 PM
Cato June had more tackles than Lance Briggs in 2006. 142 vs. 134

I dare you to find me someone who says that Cato June is a better OLB or even in the same ball park as Lance Briggs.

Even when comparing the same position in identical schemes, tackles are a horrible metric. There isn't an adequate metric for quantifying linebackers so all you can do is watch them play and make decisions form there. I think if you wanted to assign a metric to linebackers you would have to compile a percentage of missed tackles for amount of plays involved in. Even then you would be neglecting the coverage aspect of modern linebackers.


u must have not read the post when i said that 1 years worth of stats isnt what im talkin about...so what that 1 player might have done better then another 1 year...im talkin about consistance

reese
05-18-2007, 03:15 PM
Whatever you don't just make it intellgible. Okay, I gotta get going I have somewhere to be tonight, I'll leave you saying that I don't care about your stats argument as a reason for Thomas being better. Personally I see Urlacher as a better leader and player, if you don't thats your opinion, I'm not forcing Urlacher down your throat. I just want you to back off your argument that tackles are the only indication of a player's ability.

so the best thing u can come up with is bl has 2 more pics in the last 3 years?

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:23 PM
Is anyone that thinks Ray Lewis and Zach Thomas are currently better than Urlacher really worth 3 pages or debate? It's a stupid argument. If he wants to think it, let him, very few people will agree.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:24 PM
Is anyone that thinks Ray Lewis and Zach Thomas are currently better than Urlacher really worth 3 pages or debate? It's a stupid argument. If he wants to think it, let him, very few people will agree.

tell me y BU is better then ZT

JK17
05-18-2007, 03:25 PM
so the best thing u can come up with is bl has 2 more pics in the last 3 years?

Okay, I'll leave one more post....

no...for the love of god...Urlacher has better intangibles IMO. Unfortunately, no numbers cover that, so I can't use that as an argument. Aside from tackles, interceptions, and sacks are really the only strong measurement on a linebacker. Traditionally Urlacher is good with sacks, though last year he had a hiccup. So I included the other one, interceptions.

That means, of the three basic statistical areas, Thomas is better with tackles, barely. Urlacher is better with Interceptions. Barely. Sacks are a wash. In terms of statistics, thats an even break down.

That's why, like I, and many other posters have said repeatedly, there are other ways to judge LB's, so your ridiculous statistical comparison is dumb, and lacks real substantial evidence.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 03:27 PM
tell me y BU is better then ZT

In English:

"Tell me why Brian Urlacher is better than Zach Thomas." - I'll let 51' handle this one.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:31 PM
i dont even kno where to start...for 1...thomas doesnt barely have more tkls then BU..alomost 200 over 5 years isnt close...im not even gonna respond to ur coment..(so your ridiculous statistical comparison is dumb, and lacks real substantial evidence)...cuz everything in sports is based around stats...pro bowls....hall of fames..record books...all revolve around stats...so i guess i did respond to it

reese
05-18-2007, 03:32 PM
In English:

"Tell me why Brian Urlacher is better than Zach Thomas." - I'll let 51' handle this one.


lol...i kno u have no argument when the only thing u can come up with to say is somethin about the way i typed something

Sniper
05-18-2007, 03:33 PM
WOW, what a stupid statement.

If this was true then he wouldn't be able to put up monster numbers in EVERY season.

Oddly enough, every time he plays a physical team such as the Pats he's nowhere to be found, with the occasional exception. Playoff numbers vs. the Ravens 4-45-0. Vs. Pats 4-41-0 vs. Bears 5-59-0. Wasn't he often nowhere to be found in the playoff games vs. the Pats when the Pats had their run?

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:35 PM
tell me y BU is better then ZT
Becuase he is. Because he can do so much more than Thomas does. He's move versitile, he has better ball skills, he's quicker, he hits harder (though Thomas is a hard hitter too), he has better intangibles and size, he's won more, umm....really basically any criteria you can think of for judging a linebacker except for maybe pure tackling ability. Your argument for tackles is laughably stupid quite frankly. It's like saying Jon Kitna is a better quarterback than Tom Brady because he threw for more yards. Ten year olds make arguments based purely on statistics. Anyone that actually watches games and understands football knows that Urlacher is much better than Thomas. And that's not a knock on Thomas, it's just true.

JK17
05-18-2007, 03:36 PM
i dont even kno where to start...for 1...thomas doesnt barely have more tkls then BU..alomost 200 over 5 years isnt close...im not even gonna respond to ur coment..(so your ridiculous statistical comparison is dumb, and lacks real substantial evidence)...cuz everything in sports is based around stats...pro bowls....hall of fames..record books...all revolve around stats...so i guess i did respond to it

Ugh, i keep wanting to leave and get dragged back into it....I believe the number was more like 175ish, which averages out, over five years to approximately 35....Urlacher also missed seven games in 2004, but besides tackles, as has been established by every poster with a brain, as not the only way to judge a player.

Everything in sports is based around stats? Really? W-L record too? On the field impact too? Oh, you mean record books, yeah those are stats. As for Hall of Fame, they play a good deal, yes, but not to the extent your using them. Thomas may have more tackles but both have Hall of Fame stats, they aren't used to compare players as better or worse. As far as pro bowls, no they don't revolve around stats, they revolve around who had a better year, which sometimes, not always includes stats: See Vince Young in Pro Bowl.

Everything in sports does not revolve around stats, and they are not used to determine which player is better, just to determine the overall validity, in some cases of people's careers (i.e "Hall of Fame numbers")

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:38 PM
Actually stats often have little to do with the HOF, especially tackles, in comparison to many other variables. Go to the HOF some time, I worked their for two years. Then look at who leads what categories in stats.

If they did matter as much you think they do Dave Kreig would be in the HOF right now.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:38 PM
Becuase he is. Because he can do so much more than Thomas does. He's move versitile, he has better ball skills, he's quicker, he hits harder (though Thomas is a hard hitter too), he has better intangibles and size, he's won more, umm....really basically any criteria you can think of for judging a linebacker except for maybe pure tackling ability. Your argument for tackles is laughably stupid quite frankly. It's like saying Jon Kitna is a better quarterback than Tom Brady because he threw for more yards. Ten year olds make arguments based purely on statistics. Anyone that actually watches games and understands football knows that Urlacher is much better than Thomas. And that's not a knock on Thomas, it's just true.

Pure tackler=ZT
Coverage=BU
Intangibles=BU
Playmaker=BU
Heart=ZT
Leader=ZT

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:40 PM
Pure tackler=ZT
Coverage=BU
Intangibles=BU
Playmaker=BU
Heart=ZT
Leader=ZT
How can you qualify heart? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. People like Zach Thomas for the same reason they like Doug Flutie. He's a stumpy guy that runs around so they think "oh what great heart he has". But in that's basically useless unless you are simply comparing all midget players in the NFL. It's like saying Garrett Wolfe has more heart than Adrian Peterson because he's smaller.

As for leadership, how many playoff games has Zach Thomas won? I'll save you the time. It's zero. How does that make him a great leader exactly?

JK17
05-18-2007, 03:41 PM
Okay, looks like things are under control here, I'm out...I'll check back on this Monday and see how things ended up.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:42 PM
How can you qualify heart? That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.

As for leadership, how many playoff games has Zach Thomas won? I'll save you the time. It's zero. How does that make him a great leader exactly?

Heart=IMHO, striving to be better than those have expected. Such as his size. He plays much bigger than his size.

Its a team sport a LB won't take the team to the playoffs, LMFAO

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:44 PM
BTW, I am not stating that ZT is a better player than Urlacher, just stating the facts.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:46 PM
Becuase he is. Because he can do so much more than Thomas does. He's move versitile, he has better ball skills, he's quicker, he hits harder (though Thomas is a hard hitter too), he has better intangibles and size, he's won more, umm....really basically any criteria you can think of for judging a linebacker except for maybe pure tackling ability. Your argument for tackles is laughably stupid quite frankly. It's like saying Jon Kitna is a better quarterback than Tom Brady because he threw for more yards. Ten year olds make arguments based purely on statistics. Anyone that actually watches games and understands football knows that Urlacher is much better than Thomas. And that's not a knock on Thomas, it's just true.

good lord..please read other post b4 u write to me....its not at all like kitna passing for more yards then brady becuz as ive already said 2 times and this will be the 3rd...1 years worth of stats is not what im talkin about...how many times has kitna done that? 1? ZT has more tkls then BU every single year...of course u think my argument is stupid becuz its not in ur favor...ask random ppl anyone at all what the 1st thing they look for is at ANY position and its production...other stuff matters and i kno that...but at the end of they day production counts the most when u talk about individual players...for some one to say that tkls doesnt matter in a discussion about linebackers is beyond ignorant...but bears fans are so taken away by their own team that they cant see things like that. also ur statement about anyone whos knos and watches football will say urlacher is better i completely disagree with...watch thomas play and theres no way u say urlacher is better.. but like i said u bears fans are not able to do things like that...and the fact that u threw size in there is the single most ignorant thing that has been said by anyone in this argument...i guess barry sanders isnt the best cuz he was too small...i guess keyshawn in better then steve smith becuz 1 is 6'4 and one is 5'9..i could go on and on about the size thing but i kno u kno better then that...u just got carried away

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:47 PM
Heart=IMHO, striving to be better than those have expected. Such as his size. He plays much bigger than his size.
Who cares? Does that mean Marques Colsten has more heart than Marvin Harrison because he's done more than people expected him to.

It's a baseless comparison, it has no worth when comparing two players.

By the way I was wrong, the Dolphins have actually won two wild-card games but got smoked both times in the divisional round. And if you aren't judging leadership by playoff wins how are you judging it? Do you hang out in the lockeroom?

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:49 PM
good lord..please read other post b4 u write to me....its not at all like kitna passing for more yards then brady becuz as ive already said 2 times and this will be the 3rd...1 years worth of stats is not what im talkin about...how many times has kitna done that? 1? ZT has more tkls then BU every single year...of course u think my argument is stupid becuz its not in ur favor...ask random ppl anyone at all what the 1st thing they look for is at ANY position and its production...other stuff matters and i kno that...but at the end of they day production counts the most when u talk about individual players...for some one to say that tkls doesnt matter in a discussion about linebackers is beyond ignorant...but bears fans are so taken away by their own team that they cant see things like that. also ur statement about anyone whos knos and watches football will say urlacher is better i completely disagree with...watch thomas play and theres no way u say urlacher is better.. but like i said u bears fans are not able to do things like that...and the fact that u threw size in there is the single most ignorant thing that has been said by anyone in this argument...i guess barry sanders isnt the best cuz he was too small...i guess keyshawn in better then steve smith becuz 1 is 6'4 and one is 5'9..i could go on and on about the size thing but i kno u kno better then that...u just got carried away

This isn't a Bears fan thing. This is a common sense thing. I could start a thread with a poll (and actually have done so) and Urlacher will get about 90-95% of the vote. But I'm sure that's just people buying into the media and blah blah blah....

Again, I've already stated this argument isn't worth my time or anyone elses. You're wrong. Whether you continue to believe otherwise is of no concern to me.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:49 PM
Who cares? Does that mean Marques Colsten has more heart than Marvin Harrison because he's done more than people expected him to.

It's a baseless comparison, it has no worth when comparing two players.

By the way I was wrong, the Dolphins have actually won two wild-card games but got smoked both times in the divisional round. And if you aren't judging leadership by playoff wins how are you judging it? Do you hang out in the lockeroom?

So Manning decided not to be a leader until last year? Thats basically what you are saying

If you don't understand what "heart" has to do with sports then you should watch some more.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:50 PM
This isn't a Bears fan thing. This is a common sense thing. I could start a thread with a poll (and actually have done so) and Urlacher will get about 90-95% of the vote. But I'm sure that's just people buying into the media and blah blah blah....

Again, I've already stated this argument isn't worth my time or anyone elses. You're wrong. Whether you continue to believe otherwise is of no concern to me.


lol of course u cant respond

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 03:50 PM
Heart=IMHO, striving to be better than those have expected. Such as his size. He plays much bigger than his size.

Its a team sport a LB won't take the team to the playoffs, LMFAO

You can't measure heart, that's just ridiculous. Ok then, Urlacher wins in determination and intensity. I don't know why he does, but he does.

Mobility/Pursuit - Urlacher
Speed - Urlacher
Coverage - Urlacher
Blitzing - Urlacher
Hitting - Same
Tackling - Thomas
Playmaking - Urlacher

Those are things you can measure and point out. Thomas is a very good player, but he's not as good as Urlacher. And that's a fact.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:51 PM
lol of course u cant respond

As usual, the more you post on here the more you realize these things.

Flyboy
05-18-2007, 03:51 PM
I'm going with Thomas because he's a TTU alum... and it gets under bf's skin even though I know that #54 is the superior player.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:51 PM
So Manning decided not to be a leader until last year? Thats basically what you are saying

If you don't understand what "heart" has to do with sports then you should watch some more.
So what has Zach Thomas' "heart" gotten him to make him a better player than Urlacher? It's just a nice thing people say to tell a good story.

Rudy had a lot of heart. That didn't make him a good player. Again, this is the Doug Flutie factor, and it really has no basis in player comparisons. There's no way to judge that he has more heart than Urlacher simply because he's shorter. None.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:52 PM
You can't measure heart, that's just ridiculous. Ok then, Urlacher wins in determination and intensity. I don't know why he does, but he does.

Mobility/Pursuit - Urlacher
Speed - Urlacher
Coverage - Urlacher
Blitzing - Urlacher
Hitting - Same
Tackling - Thomas
Playmaking - Urlacher

Those are things you can measure and point out. Thomas is a very good player, but he's not as good as Urlacher. And that's a fact.

As I stated earlier, I don't think Thomas is the better player, but give credit where credit is due.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:52 PM
So what has Zach Thomas' "heart" gotten him to make him a better player than Urlacher? It's just a nice thing people say to tell a good story.

Rudy had a lot of heart. That didn't make him a good player. Again, this is the Doug Flutie factor, and it really has no basis in player comparisons. There's no way to judge that he has more heart than Urlacher simply because he's shorter. None.

For the third time I never said Thomas was a better player.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:53 PM
He did. Thomas is a good, solid, player. That has nothing to do with the thread though.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 03:53 PM
So Manning decided not to be a leader until last year? Thats basically what you are saying

If you don't understand what "heart" has to do with sports then you should watch some more.

Wow, just wow. No one here said heart didn't matter, but you can't measure it and say well Thomas has more heart than Urlacher. Because both play with passion and determination. Trying to argue this is just stupid and pointless.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 03:54 PM
As I stated earlier, I don't think Thomas is the better player, but give credit where credit is due.

And I did, read my post. And I never said you thought Thomas was the better player, reese asked me to rebuttal his point and I did.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:55 PM
You can't measure heart, that's just ridiculous. Ok then, Urlacher wins in determination and intensity. I don't know why he does, but he does.

Mobility/Pursuit - Urlacher
Speed - Urlacher
Coverage - Urlacher
Blitzing - Urlacher
Hitting - Same
Tackling - Thomas
Playmaking - Urlacher

Those are things you can measure and point out. Thomas is a very good player, but he's not as good as Urlacher. And that's a fact.


so depsite the fact that according to you BU is better in all that stuff...he still cant seem to get to the ball like ZT does

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:55 PM
Wow, just wow. No one here said heart didn't matter, but you can't measure it and say well Thomas has more heart than Urlacher. Because both play with passion and determination. Trying to argue this is just stupid and pointless.

That is where we differ, and continuing to argue about it is stupid, which is why we will stop now unless you would rather continue.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 03:56 PM
so depsite the fact that according to you BU is better in all that stuff...he still cant seem to get to the ball like ZT does

He's not asked to get to the ball everytime like ZT is. If you watched football and understood schemes you would figure that out. Thomas is a tackling machine. Urlacher is an everything machine. That's why your comparison is stupid.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 03:57 PM
He's not asked to get to the ball everytime like ZT is. If you watched football and understood schemes you would figure that out. Thomas is a tackling machine. Urlacher is an everything machine. That's why your comparison is stupid.

Your sig is confusing, I am gonna have a sandwich.

reese
05-18-2007, 03:59 PM
He's not asked to get to the ball everytime like ZT is. If you watched football and understood schemes you would figure that out. Thomas is a tackling machine. Urlacher is an everything machine. That's why your comparison is stupid.



i played organized football from age 5 through high school and college so i doubt i have trouble understanding football and its different schemes and stratagies

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 03:59 PM
That is where we differ, and continuing to argue about it is stupid, which is why we will stop now unless you would rather continue.

You're the one who kept arguing about it. I'm going to make my point and say you're wrong, well because you are. Don't bring this up if you don't want to discuss it.

Btw tackles might be the most overrated defensive stat ever. Zach is a good player, he really is but he's not in Urlacher's class. He can't do some of the things Urlacher can.

Ewing
05-18-2007, 03:59 PM
Reese once you learn English your arguements and opinions might matter. Honestly, I can't understand what points you are trying to get across because your grammar is so horrible.

reese
05-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Reese once you learn English your arguements and opinions might matter. Honestly, I can't understand what points you are trying to get across because your grammar is so horrible.


well the ppl that im arguin with can read them and i refuse to take the time to type everything out the right way so....

Phrost
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Reese once you learn English your arguements and opinions might matter. Honestly, I can't understand what points you are trying to get across because your grammar is so horrible.

Truthfully.....Did you double check your this post before you posted it to make sure you didn't look like a fool when criticizing someone else for spelling.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
i played organized football from age 5 through high school and college so i doubt i have trouble understanding football and its different schemes and stratagies
You would think but no. By the way, I played just as much football (quit my sophmore year of college) so that doesn't really hold water. I know a lot of guys I played with in college that didn't understand a blitz package from their asshole.

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 04:04 PM
Who cares? Does that mean Marques Colsten has more heart than Marvin Harrison because he's done more than people expected him to.

It's a baseless comparison, it has no worth when comparing two players.

By the way I was wrong, the Dolphins have actually won two wild-card games but got smoked both times in the divisional round. And if you aren't judging leadership by playoff wins how are you judging it? Do you hang out in the lockeroom?

Lol, 100-10 in two years.

As for the Urlacher Thomas stuff, they are extremely different players even if they both play ILB. Thomas can stuff the run as good as if not better than any LB in the NFL. Urlacher's coverage ability is completely ridiculous though. There really isn't anything Thomas does in coverage better than Urlacher, but the only thing Urlacher might have on Thomas in the run game is sideline to sideline range, which is really a push. Block shedding, play recognition, tackling ability, all go to Thomas.

For the intangibles, I can't see how you can blame the Dolphins record on Thomas, or the defense in general. Since Thomas has been on the Dolphins the defense has been one of the best in the league. It's not his fault the offense is inept.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
For the intangibles, I can't see how you can blame the Dolphins record on Thomas, or the defense in general. Since Thomas has been on the Dolphins the defense has been one of the best in the league. It's not his fault the offense is inept.
No it's not. But I don't see how Thomas is a better leader than Urlacher because he's shorter. If you are going to make an arbitrary judgement like that (which I don't since football is a team sport and usually people don't even know who the leader of each team really is) I would go to performance in the playoffs if nothing else.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
So what are your thoughts on pass coverage, blitzing, pursuit, speed, and playmaking ability in this discussion reese?

Because it seems to me that your only argument is that Thomas had more tackles.

reese
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
You're the one who kept arguing about it. I'm going to make my point and say you're wrong, well because you are. Don't bring this up if you don't want to discuss it.

Btw tackles might be the most overrated defensive stat ever. Zach is a good player, he really is but he's not in Urlacher's class. He can't do some of the things Urlacher can.


tkls is the most overrated stat ever? how can u say that? what is the defense out there to do if tackling is overrated?

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
tkls is the most overrated stat ever? how can u say that? what is the defense out there to do if tackling is overrated?

Because you're saying Thomas is better than Urlacher because he has more tackles. Like I said, is this your only argument? Or are you going to come up with something more.

reese
05-18-2007, 04:13 PM
well what else do u wanna kno...i said those other things count but makin tackles is the most important for a MLB...u keep bringing up pass coverage...ok mabe BU is a lil better then ZT in that...but thats not the most important thing for a LB...thats like sayin ud rather hav a CB that can tackle better then he can cover

Ewing
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
well the ppl that im arguin with can read them and i refuse to take the time to type everything out the right way so....

Nobody is going take the time to read your posts if they look like you just threw a rock at the keyboard and then clicked "Submit Reply".

draftguru151
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
No it's not. But I don't see how Thomas is a better leader than Urlacher because he's shorter. If you are going to make an arbitrary judgement like that (which I don't since football is a team sport and usually people don't even know who the leader of each team really is) I would go to performance in the playoffs if nothing else.

Yea I definitely don't that support that theory. The only thing Thomas' lack of measurables has to do with anything is that he does more with less, which in no way has anything to do with who is the better player.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
well what else do u wanna kno...i said those other things count but makin tackles is the most important for a MLB...u keep bringing up pass coverage...ok mabe BU is a lil better then ZT in that...but thats not the most important thing for a LB...thats like sayin ud rather hav a CB that can tackle better then he can cover

Wow, you really don't understand football do you.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 04:17 PM
Nobody is going take the time to read your posts if they look like you just threw a rock at the keyboard and then clicked "Submit Reply".

That's one of the better ones I've heard before, nicely done.

reese
05-18-2007, 04:17 PM
dont read it then

reese
05-18-2007, 04:22 PM
Wow, you really don't understand football do you.


deion couldnt tackle so does that mean he wasnt the best corner? no he could cover and thats what he did...ZT make tackles all over the field and does a good job in coverage mabe not as good as BU but as a linebacker his ability to run sideline to sideline and make tackles all over the field is more important then him being better in coverage then BU

bigbluedefense
05-18-2007, 04:24 PM
I didnt read any of this thread. I just wanna say that I <3 Zach Thomas.


I think my new mancrush might be DeMeco Ryans though. But for now, Zach still holds the key to my heart.

bearsfan_51
05-18-2007, 04:27 PM
I didnt read any of this thread. I just wanna say that I <3 Zach Thomas.


I think my new mancrush might be DeMeco Ryans though. But for now, Zach still holds the key to my heart.

The Backstreet Boys poster on your wall says otherwise.

bigbluedefense
05-18-2007, 04:47 PM
The Backstreet Boys poster on your wall says otherwise.


Its right next to my Bill Parcells poster

*giggles*

bigbluedefense
05-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Oh hell with it. Lemme give this a try. I didn't mix and match, I went with guys who play the actual position, not projecting guys into certain roles.


QB - Tom Brady
FB - Lorenzo Neal
RB - Ladanian Tomlinson

LT - Walter Thomas
LG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kreutz
RG - Shaun Andrews
RT - Jamal Brown

TE - Antonio Gates
HBack - Chris Cooley

WR - Steve Smith



4-3 defense

LE - Julius Peppers
NT - John Hendersen
UT - Tommie Harris
RE - Jason Taylor

WILL - Julian Peterson
MIKE - Brian Urlacher
SAM - Marcus Washington

CB - Champ Bailey
SS - Ed Reed
FS - Brian Dawkins



3-4 defense

LE - Richard Seymour
NT - Jamal Williams
RE - Ty Warren

WOLB - Shawne Merriman
WILB - Zach Thomas (had to throw my boy somewhere in here)
SILB - Mike Vrabel
SOLB - Adalius Thomas

Same secondary

jkpigskin
05-18-2007, 05:04 PM
Walter Jones has declined a lot over the years. I would put Jammal Brown over him as the top OT in the league. There are a number of guys who should go before Alstott as the top FB in the league. Also, I think it will be difficult to put up a list that isn't rife with controversy simply because you have guys who excel in a 3-4 and guys excel in a 4-3. For instance, Richard Seymour might not be the sack artist that Peppers is, but he is extremely valuable inside a 3-4 defense. Tommie Harris becomes the sexy pick at DT but guys like Jamal Williams and Casey Hampton are just as much of a force. Don't forget about Kevin Williams with the Vikes. I think it would probably be easier listing the top 5 guys at each position, but who wants to do that?!?!

over the years? correct me if im wrong, but wasnt he called the best OT when SA won the mvp award? wasnt that a season before last?
jones is still one of the best if not the best tackle in the league...

Shiver
05-18-2007, 05:09 PM
Oh hell with it. Lemme give this a try. I didn't mix and match, I went with guys who play the actual position, not projecting guys into certain roles.


QB - Tom Brady
FB - Lorenzo Neal
RB - Ladanian Tomlinson

LT - Walter Thomas
LG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kreutz
RG - Shaun Andrews
RT - Jamal Brown

TE - Antonio Gates
HBack - Chris Cooley

WR - Steve Smith



4-3 defense

LE - Julius Peppers
NT - John Hendersen
UT - Tommie Harris
RE - Jason Taylor

WILL - Julian Peterson
MIKE - Brian Urlacher
SAM - Marcus Washington

CB - Champ Bailey
SS - Ed Reed
FS - Brian Dawkins



3-4 defense

LE - Richard Seymour
NT - Jamal Williams
RE - Ty Warren

WOLB - Shawne Merriman
WILB - Zach Thomas (had to throw my boy somewhere in here)
SILB - Mike Vrabel
SOLB - Adalius Thomas

Same secondary

Two things:


I would put Luis Castillo over Ty Warren.
Reed at FS, Wilson at SS for me.

bigbluedefense
05-18-2007, 05:11 PM
Two things:


I would put Luis Castillo over Ty Warren.
Reed at FS, Wilson at SS for me.


I would too, but Castillo is a LE in the 3-4, I would have to put him ahead of Seymour based on my premesis making the list.

And while Castillo is a better rusher, I don't know if he's better at 2 gapping compared to Warren. Warren plays the 2 gap 3-4 perfectly. If I replaced him, I would have to do it with Olshanksky, but I like Warren better.

Putting Reed at FS is doable, and I would also put Wilson at SS if that were the case. Baltimore lists him as a SS, thats why I did as well. But if I moved him to FS, I would have the same SS as you recommended.

Shiver
05-18-2007, 05:14 PM
Baltimore doesn't list him as a SS...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/BAL

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/Team/Default.aspx?id=278

As for Castillo, I had his position mixed up. In that case, I would put Olshansky.

bigbluedefense
05-18-2007, 05:19 PM
Baltimore doesn't list him as a SS...

http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/BAL

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/Team/Default.aspx?id=278

As for Castillo, I had his position mixed up. In that case, I would put Olshansky.

Thats interesting. And they have a 3-4 formation as their base according to that. Hmmm. Yeah, if thats the case, then Wilson is my SS and Reed my FS.

Na, Warren is better than Olshanksky. By a slight margin. Theyre equal run stuffers, but I give Warren a slight edge at reading and reacting (filling the proper gap), and as a pass rusher.

Super close. But the edge goes to Warren for me.

sweetness34
05-18-2007, 06:03 PM
deion couldnt tackle so does that mean he wasnt the best corner? no he could cover and thats what he did...ZT make tackles all over the field and does a good job in coverage mabe not as good as BU but as a linebacker his ability to run sideline to sideline and make tackles all over the field is more important then him being better in coverage then BU

Brian Urlacher has more pursuit ability than Zach Thomas. If you don't realize that, then I don't know what to say. You're basically digging yourself a hole here that you can't get out of.

remix 6
05-18-2007, 06:58 PM
You honestly think Gould is better than Vinatieri?

honestly..yes. his status came from clutch kicks..not regular season kicking. Hes my 3rd really..also after Rackers, although he struggled last year

not being a hater but Adam was 80 % on his last season with us..Gould was 89% this year

Phrost
05-18-2007, 07:02 PM
honestly..yes. his status came from clutch kicks..not regular season kicking. Hes my 3rd really..also after Rackers, although he struggled last year

not being a hater but Adam was 80 % on his last season with us..Gould was 89% this year

Gould has also played great for only ONE year, Vinadfdsf-terry has done it consistantly for years.

Surrender noted.

remix 6
05-18-2007, 07:04 PM
Gould has also played great for only ONE year, Vinadfdsf-terry has done it consistantly for years.

Surrender noted.
its only the begining of Gould's career. Guy impressed me when i watched him ...kicking in Chicago isnt easy..Windy City + Kicker = bad usually..gould makes it easy

21ST
05-18-2007, 07:14 PM
Oh hell with it. Lemme give this a try. I didn't mix and match, I went with guys who play the actual position, not projecting guys into certain roles.


QB - Tom Brady
FB - Lorenzo Neal
RB - Ladanian Tomlinson

LT - Walter Thomas
LG - Steve Hutchinson
C - Olin Kreutz
RG - Shaun Andrews
RT - Jamal Brown

TE - Antonio Gates
HBack - Chris Cooley

WR - Steve Smith



4-3 defense

LE - Julius Peppers
NT - John Hendersen
UT - Tommie Harris
RE - Jason Taylor

WILL - Julian Peterson
MIKE - Brian Urlacher
SAM - Marcus Washington

CB - Champ Bailey
SS - Ed Reed
FS - Brian Dawkins



3-4 defense

LE - Richard Seymour
NT - Jamal Williams
RE - Ty Warren

WOLB - Shawne Merriman
WILB - Zach Thomas (had to throw my boy somewhere in here)
SILB - Mike Vrabel
SOLB - Adalius Thomas

Same secondary

LOL you gotta admit that is funny unless you did it on purpose cause isnt Walter Thomas a DT. Also Cooley isnt an H-back but i guess he would be one of the better ones in the leauge.

Phrost
05-18-2007, 07:25 PM
LOL you gotta admit that is funny unless you did it on purpose cause isnt Walter Thomas a DT. Also Cooley isnt an H-back but i guess he would be one of the better ones in the leauge.

You apparently don't know what an H-Back is. Its not a RB.

Go_Eagles77
05-18-2007, 07:28 PM
This is like the 20th time this thread came up during this offseason.

757Dawg
05-18-2007, 07:31 PM
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Marvin Harrison
TE: Antonio Gates
OT: Walter Jones
OG: Steve Hutchinson
C: Olin Kreutz

DE: Julius Peppers
DT: Tommie Harris
OLB: Keith Bulluck
MLB: Brian Urlacher
CB: Champ Bailey
S: Ed Reed

K: Adam Vinatieri
P: Shane Lechler

Joeyjr09
05-18-2007, 07:40 PM
LOL you gotta admit that is funny unless you did it on purpose cause isnt Walter Thomas a DT. Also Cooley isnt an H-back but i guess he would be one of the better ones in the leauge.

Are you that dumb? He mean Walter Jones, the clear cut best LT in the NFL right now. And Cooley does play H-Back. It's not a runningback. It's a completely different position.

Go watch NFL re runs for a few weeks and then come back on here after learning something.

I hate when people make fun of others even tho they themselves are blatantly wrong

Flyboy
05-18-2007, 10:19 PM
Jamaal Brown plays LT, bbd.

PACKmanN
05-19-2007, 02:34 AM
QB: Tom Brady
RB - LaDainian Tomlinson
FB - Lorenzo Neal
WR - Larry Fitzgerald
TE - Antonio Gates
OT - Orlando Pace
OG - Shawn Andrews
C - LeCharles Bentley

DE - Julius Peppers
DT - John Henderson
OLB - AJ Hawk(break out year?)
MLB - Brian Urlacher
CB - Champ Bailey
S - Ed Reed

21ST
05-19-2007, 08:40 AM
You apparently don't know what an H-Back is. Its not a RB.

LOL im a redskins fan i know exactly what an H-back is. Al Saunders offense does not use an H-Back we only use TE's. Chris Cooley is a TE.

Phrost
05-19-2007, 02:29 PM
LOL im a redskins fan i know exactly what an H-back is. Al Saunders offense does not use an H-Back we only use TE's. Chris Cooley is a TE.

But as an H-Back he is the best in the business. That is the point of the thread.

neko4
05-19-2007, 06:53 PM
More of a prediction
I decided to mix it up a bit
QB-Drew Brees
HB-Ladanian Tomlinson
FB-Lorenzo Neal
WR-Steve Smith
TE-Antonio Gates
OT-Walter Jones
OG-Hutch
C-Olin

DE-Aaron Kampman
DT-Marcus Stroud
SLB-Shawne Merrimen
MLB-Brian Urlacher
WLB-AJ Hawk
CB-Champ Bailey
FS-Ed Reed
SS-Roy Williams
K-Vinatieri
P-Shane Lechler
KR-Devin Hester/Maurice Jones-Drew
PR-Devin Hester

awfullyquiet
05-19-2007, 07:07 PM
its only the begining of Gould's career. Guy impressed me when i watched him ...kicking in Chicago isnt easy..Windy City + Kicker = bad usually..gould makes it easy

11 mph today. and during the winter. nasty nasty winds off the lake. which if you didn't know. is half a block away.

Jimmy
05-19-2007, 07:13 PM
you know you have 2 once in a lifetime future HOF'ers when every single person in a 7 page thread lists tomlinson and bailey as their #1's.. cept for the dude that picked jonathan joseph, and that doesnt count

neko4
05-19-2007, 07:38 PM
LOL im a redskins fan i know exactly what an H-back is. Al Saunders offense does not use an H-Back we only use TE's. Chris Cooley is a TE.

I thought Sellers was the H-Back

bearsfan_51
05-19-2007, 07:57 PM
you know you have 2 once in a lifetime future HOF'ers when every single person in a 7 page thread lists tomlinson and bailey as their #1's.. cept for the dude that picked jonathan joseph, and that doesnt count
I honestly wouldn't consider either player once in a lifetime. LT is very special no doubt, but at this point he isn't even as good as Barry Sanders or Walter Payton, let alone better.

One could make the case for Bailey as there aren't as many high profile CB's of this generation, but I'd still put him below Deion in his prime or Ronnie Lott for that matter. Or Dick "Nightrane" Lane considering how long your lifetime is.

Yung Flippa
05-19-2007, 08:02 PM
QB-Tom Brady

RB-LaDanian Tomlinson

FB- Lorenzo Neal

WR-Steve Smith

TE- Antonio Gates


DE- Julius Peppers

DT- Marcus Stroud

OLB- Adalius Thomas

MLB- Brian Urlacher (Was Ray Lewis Couple of years ago)

CB- Champ Bailey

S- Ed Reed

21ST
05-19-2007, 08:06 PM
I thought Sellers was the H-Back

He was used there but the point is there is not an H-Back in the redskins offense anymore

Phrost
05-19-2007, 08:19 PM
He was used there but the point is there is not an H-Back in the redskins offense anymore

It doesn't matter he would play H-Back in an offense that would use an H-Back. He would also be the best in the league at it.

awfullyquiet
05-19-2007, 08:51 PM
He was used there but the point is there is not an H-Back in the redskins offense anymore

saunders is also a weenie

Billingsley26
05-29-2007, 11:01 PM
Tom Brady
L. Tomlinson
Lorenzo Neal
Marvin Harrison
Antonio Gates
Walter Jones
Steve Huchinson
Kevin Mawae (in his prime)

Jason Taylor
Jamal Williams
Adalius Thomas
Brian Urlacher
Champ Bailey
Troy Polamalu

Adam Vinateiri
Brian Moorman
Devin Hester

BlindSite
05-29-2007, 11:37 PM
Holy bump batman!

bigbluedefense
05-30-2007, 12:10 AM
Jamaal Brown plays LT, bbd.

Yeah, but he also played RT. I think as a RT he was the best in the game. He may very well be one of the best LTs soon enough. I was very impressed with him this past year.

LOL you gotta admit that is funny unless you did it on purpose cause isnt Walter Thomas a DT. Also Cooley isnt an H-back but i guess he would be one of the better ones in the leauge.

Lol, holy crap, I didnt even notice that. I meant Walter Jones.

Didn't Cooley play HBack sometimes under Gibbs playbook? I don't like how Saunders is using him. Gibbs utilized him better.

255979119
05-30-2007, 12:16 AM
QB- T. Brady
RB- L. Tomlinson
FB- L. Neal
TE- A. Gates
WR- M. Harrison
OT- J. Brown
OG- S. Hutchinson
C- O. Kreutz

DE- (4-3) J. Peppers, (3-4) R. Seymour
DT- (UT) T. Harris, (NT) J. Williams
OLB- (4-3) J. Peterson, (3-4) A. Thomas(better coverage skills than Merriman)
MLB- B. Urlacher
CB- Some guy named "The Champ"
FS- E. Reed
SS- A-Dub

K- Vinatieri
P- McBriar(it changes every bloody year)

Caddy
05-30-2007, 01:22 AM
I laughed when I saw the Alstott picks. Sure he is good in Madden, but that just doesn't translate into the NFL.

CW99
05-30-2007, 08:26 AM
QB: Donovan McNabb
RB: LaDainian Tomlinson
FB: Lorenzo Neal
WR: Anquan Boldin
TE: Antonio Gates
OT: Walter Jones
OG: Shawn Andrews
C: Jamal Jackson

DE: Julius Peppers
DT: Jamal Williams
OLB: Shawne Merriman
MLB: Ray Lewis
CB: Champ Bailey
S: Brian Dawkins

M.O.T.H.
05-30-2007, 09:44 AM
After this upcoming season... best WR once again will be... Randy Moss.