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Beans
05-19-2007, 08:43 PM
With Oliver and maybe Gaither entering, any chance we go for either of them? We could use both, really. (Position-wise, I don't know how they fit our schemes.)

Chucky
05-20-2007, 12:21 AM
I would love to get Jared Gaither, he is an absolute best, would probably be willing to give up a third for him, definatly a fourth

Merlin
05-20-2007, 01:16 AM
I think Gaither has all the physical ability at 6'9 and 350lbs, but he's still raw IMO, I wouldn't have a problem with the Bucs using next years 3rd on him, (if he stays in school he could move into the 1st with a solid season) he could come in and learn, and be ready to compete next year, hopefully coached up with an understanding of the task ahead.

How does the supplemental draft work, I'm not sure of the in's and out's?

Caddy
05-20-2007, 03:05 AM
I usually would avoid taking players in the supplemental draft as they usually have some form of character flaws such as Ahmad Brooks.

I would certainly look in to Jared Gaither as his potential would make him easily worth a 3rd rounder. He would have the opportunity to sit behind Petitgout/Davis for a season or so with the hopes of becoming a dominant tackle in the future.

I would probably avoid Oliver for several reason. He has some slight character concerns where he is rumoured to be doing poorly in school and he is not an ideal fit for our defense.

Caddy
05-20-2007, 03:08 AM
How does the supplemental draft work, I'm not sure of the in's and out's?

In late summer, the NFL also holds a Supplemental Draft to accommodate players who did not enter the regular draft because they thought they still had academic eligibility to play college football. Draft order is determined by a weighted system that is divided into three groupings. First come the teams that had six or fewer wins last season, followed by non-playoff teams that had more than six wins, followed by the 12 playoff teams. In the supplemental draft, a team is not required to use any picks. Instead, if a team wants a player in the supplemental draft, they submit a "bid" to the Commissioner with the round they would pick that player. If no other team places a bid on that player at an earlier spot, the team is awarded the player and has to give up an equivalent pick in the following year's draft.

This little excerpt is from wikipedia and does a pretty decent job explaining the supplemental draft. A lot of the time the players that enter have character concerns which is why it is rare for players to be drafted in it.

Merlin
05-21-2007, 03:37 AM
In late summer, the NFL also holds a Supplemental Draft to accommodate players who did not enter the regular draft because they thought they still had academic eligibility to play college football. Draft order is determined by a weighted system that is divided into three groupings. First come the teams that had six or fewer wins last season, followed by non-playoff teams that had more than six wins, followed by the 12 playoff teams. In the supplemental draft, a team is not required to use any picks. Instead, if a team wants a player in the supplemental draft, they submit a "bid" to the Commissioner with the round they would pick that player. If no other team places a bid on that player at an earlier spot, the team is awarded the player and has to give up an equivalent pick in the following year's draft.

This little excerpt is from wikipedia and does a pretty decent job explaining the supplemental draft. A lot of the time the players that enter have character concerns which is why it is rare for players to be drafted in it.Cheers, reading this it sounds like we're in with a shout for either player, should we want too.

Caddy
05-21-2007, 06:50 AM
Cheers, reading this it sounds like we're in with a shout for either player, should we want too.

If either were to declare for it then we would definitely be in with a shot to nab them. I guess we will see if either become eligible in the coming weeks.

Fresh
05-21-2007, 06:07 PM
Jared Gaither would be the pick, if he were to come out. Gaither is a monster, he is a gruden type guy mean steak nasty attitude. Have him start his 3rd year when Luke contract is up. I hope he comes out if not than certainly Oliver from Gerogia.

etk
05-21-2007, 06:20 PM
Gaither is not going to come out, and Oliver is not needed or wanted.

Fresh
05-21-2007, 06:26 PM
Kelly- On his way out
Barber- 32?33?
Buchannan
Cox is he really a #2 corner?
Zematiatis question mark there
Davis another question mark
Oliver is a 1st round talent, we should take him

etk
05-21-2007, 06:44 PM
Kelly- On his way out
Barber- 32?33?
Buchannan
Cox is he really a #2 corner?
Zematiatis question mark there
Davis another question mark
Oliver is a 1st round talent, we should take him

First of all Oliver is more of a man corner rather than zone. Our coaches may not feel that he fits the system well so it's unlikely that we use a pick on him if it costs us in '08. My second point was already mentioned in your quoted post. We have 6 CBs on the roster already with rookies like Hamilton also competing for a spot. Why would we add another one if it costs a draft pick, doesn't fit and forces us to cut a player that would otherwise be a contributor. Kelly and Barber are starters, Buchanon is an interesting nickelback, Cox is a returner and veteran special teamer, Zemaitis is developing and Davis has a chance at the roster. I see no reason to replace any of those guys at the current moment, especially when there are other considerations like the cost and risk. Have our coaches done a thorough background check and studying/scouting job on a guy that didn't declare for the draft originally? Probably not. Would we feel comfortable drafting a guy we don't know much about? No. We're in the middle of assembling our roster as camps go on, why would we interrupt all of that for a troubled corner that doesn't fit? You think the irritable Chucky himself wants to go through all of that? Unlikely.

Caddy
05-21-2007, 11:29 PM
I agree with etk on the whole Oliver thing. To say we need a CB is not that much of a stretch, but what Oliver brings to the table is unsuited to the Zone style defense we play.

I also don't think Gaither will declare. In all honesty, the kid would be a moron if he entered the supplemental draft instead of the regular draft. With his measurables and potential and another years experience under his belt, he could easily be a first rounder netting him a far larger pay check than a supplemental pick would get.

In saying that, I would take Oliver with a Day 2 pick purely based on value and I would take Gaither with a 3rd, no questions asked.

etk
05-22-2007, 10:22 AM
I agree with etk on the whole Oliver thing. To say we need a CB is not that much of a stretch, but what Oliver brings to the table is unsuited to the Zone style defense we play.

I also don't think Gaither will declare. In all honesty, the kid would be a moron if he entered the supplemental draft instead of the regular draft. With his measurables and potential and another years experience under his belt, he could easily be a first rounder netting him a far larger pay check than a supplemental pick would get.

In saying that, I would take Oliver with a Day 2 pick purely based on value and I would take Gaither with a 3rd, no questions asked.

Eh I don't like the idea of bringing in a rookie this late in camp, especially not when there's as much competition at CB as we have. I can see us taking an OT but Gaither won't declare. Can anyone explain why he's rumoured to do so?

Caddy
05-22-2007, 04:23 PM
Eh I don't like the idea of bringing in a rookie this late in camp, especially not when there's as much competition at CB as we have. I can see us taking an OT but Gaither won't declare. Can anyone explain why he's rumoured to do so?

I think the rumour is regarding his grades within school, but it is a rumour so take it for what it is worth.

Fresh
05-22-2007, 07:48 PM
First of all Oliver is more of a man corner rather than zone. Our coaches may not feel that he fits the system well so it's unlikely that we use a pick on him if it costs us in '08. My second point was already mentioned in your quoted post. We have 6 CBs on the roster already with rookies like Hamilton also competing for a spot. Why would we add another one if it costs a draft pick, doesn't fit and forces us to cut a player that would otherwise be a contributor. Kelly and Barber are starters, Buchanon is an interesting nickelback, Cox is a returner and veteran special teamer, Zemaitis is developing and Davis has a chance at the roster. I see no reason to replace any of those guys at the current moment, especially when there are other considerations like the cost and risk. Have our coaches done a thorough background check and studying/scouting job on a guy that didn't declare for the draft originally? Probably not. Would we feel comfortable drafting a guy we don't know much about? No. We're in the middle of assembling our roster as camps go on, why would we interrupt all of that for a troubled corner that doesn't fit? You think the irritable Chucky himself wants to go through all of that? Unlikely.
Didn't Barber and Kelly play man-man in college? Oliver was 5th in tackles for Georgia,speaks volumes about him. Can help in the run, coach him up in our system, 3rd round will do.

-black
05-23-2007, 12:36 PM
I hate the rediculous notion that just because a player did not play the Cover 2 in college then they "dont fit" our scheme. Well excuse me, I always believed the Tampa 2 actually simplified things for a DB in the secondary. I actually thought rookies had to learn NFL systems regardless of where they go. I had to hear all pre-draft how "Landry doesnt fit our system"....wtf? People act as if these players are 1 dimensional robots who cant learn anything. Almost any player with a mind to learn and some talent can fit in our system in the secondary. People tend to overanlalyze things too much. Maybe we need certain players at the LB and DL spots but the secondary needs smart (football smart), physical, instinctive players that can tackle. They dont have to be speed demons.Oliver would do more than fine in our system. In fact I would say it would be an easier transition from college playing a spot then just being on an island every play.

With that said we dont need Oliver, and I would not take him. Gaither is a guy I would look at if he entered. We dont NEED a LT right now (as in 07 season) but def could in 08 or 09. So i would not have a problem getting one a year or two in advance and developing him till he is ready to take over

etk
05-23-2007, 03:46 PM
Oliver could adjust to our system but why take that risk? Coaches take players who fit their schemes comfortably, not just the best available corner. This is the draft, not free agency. Teams try to narrow the failure risk as much as possible. Identifying good fits is the easiest way to do so.

-black
05-23-2007, 05:46 PM
i dont want Oliver and dont think we need any more corners for this season. Would rather see what we have with the younger corners we do have. Im just saying in general. That "doesnt fit the system" line is getting old because many of them can and will. Oliver could fit a cover 2 system, if he does what every other rookie does. Practice and learn the playbook.

Fresh
05-23-2007, 08:54 PM
The only player recently I can think of that came in and understands the tampa two right away is Tanard Jackson. I really think he will be good for us at FS.

Caddy
05-24-2007, 03:06 AM
The only player recently I can think of that came in and understands the tampa two right away is Tanard Jackson. I really think he will be good for us at FS.

I don't really think you can ever say that a rookie came in and understand our zone defense right away. Each coaching staff, especially Kiffin, give a different spin to the cover style of defense. Even if a collegiate player experienced the Cover 2/Tampa 2 style does not mean they understand Kiffin's style.

What is even more difficult for Jackson, is the fact that he is switching positions which changes his role within the defense altogether. A guy like Alan Zemaitas was familiar with a Cover 2 formation when he came out but he has shown nothing since.

etk
05-24-2007, 10:49 AM
I don't think any of our recent draft picks have made an immediate impact in the secondary. I have high hopes for Jackson but for this season I just want to see him work his tail off on special teams. Rookies are capable of playing in our cover scheme but our coaches will always lean towards the more experienced and instinctual vets. Game experience and understanding the coverage are two different things.