The Hotstove: MLB off-season discussion and rumors thread

[Scott Wright]

Starting it over!

[Damix]

Yea that was getting sort of annoying

[bearsfan_51]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

[nvot9]

Mets trade Milledge, Pelfrey/Humber and some addons for D-Train or they sign Zito.

[MaxV]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

One of those teams will be the Chicago Cubs this year.

[Moltar]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

[VoteLynnSwan]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

One of those teams will be the Chicago Cubs this year.


... yea...

i hate trying to buy a championship... but we only have (techinically) 2 years to win before the century mark rolls around, so we have to do what it takes.

[Philliez01]

Alright, as of now the Chicago Cubs are vastly proving to everyone that the MLB should look into some restraint on a "possible" cap. I'm not a fan of it but did anyone see the contract that a decent player such as Juan Pierre received? No offense to him, but seriously; Soriano's contract is just another example.

Anyway, about the Phillies here, glad they didn't spend the dinero on Soriano. I couldn't take losing Utley or Hamels in the next season or two (I can't see them dropping Howard) but nonetheless, as bad of a liability as Burrell is; Soriano would probably still be in that boat defensively.

Now about the farm system; there is something to be excited about so it appears:

Gio Gonzalez, the cornerstone to the Jim Thome deal has been pitching "well" in the Arizona Fall League. His strikeout total is slowly rising and I see him possibly having a chance at AAA-Ottawa (or some Canadian city) but will most likely serve in Reading again.

This is Gavin Floyd's year; not just for the Phillies but just in general as a MLB pitcher. He has a great curveball but unfortunately, no location and no development. Also I question his mental stamina as he appears to break down after one bad pitch. I think he could be a solid middle-of-the-rotation guy but who knows at this point where he is. His AFL numbers was inconsistent but he had his good games.

Jason Jaramillo is the future at catcher, that's a guarantee. Now, Coste will be here for the next 1-2 years if everything goes perfect. He's 33, not a great age to be a catcher in this league and with Helms, his value as a backup 3B is shot. Ruiz, 28, grew over the season but I don't like his future as a starting catcher. Jaramillo has the pop and defense (with age) to be good.

Zach Segovia, remember the name, he'll be good. I think he'll see a shot at the rotation this year, with injuries, if he starts the year out at Triple A. He's back from TJ surgery with a great year that had him on the US Olympic JR. team.

[Moltar]

The cubs are funny. They probably won't even win it this year or next year, or for another century.

[bearsfan_51]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

One of those teams will be the Chicago Cubs this year.
I'm from Ohio homey, and in case you haven't noticed, I'm an Indians fan.

I now hate the Cubs for giving Soriano insane money and pushing up the market, and I hate the Dodgers for giving Juan Pierre 5 years-45 million.

The Mets and Yankees deals so far have actually been frugal in comparison. But then again, there's always time to screw that up.

[Canadian_kid16]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x

[bearsfan_51]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x
Speier got a 4 year contract, and probably for pretty good money. The reliever market is sooooo thin this year that if you can spare not wasting your money it's a good idea.

[VoteLynnSwan]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x
Speier got a 4 year contract, and probably for pretty good money. The reliever market is sooooo thin this year that if you can spare not wasting your money it's a good idea.

While I'm thinking about it, Devin Hester and Reggie Bush both have 2 TD.


:|

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x
Speier got a 4 year contract, and probably for pretty good money. The reliever market is sooooo thin this year that if you can spare not wasting your money it's a good idea.

While I'm thinking about it, Devin Hester and Reggie Bush both have 2 TD.


:|

-Devin Hester still has more touchdowns than Reggie Bush

[Rob S]

Mets trade Milledge, Pelfrey/Humber and some addons for D-Train or they sign Zito.

that would be a horrible deal imo.

[VoteLynnSwan]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x
Speier got a 4 year contract, and probably for pretty good money. The reliever market is sooooo thin this year that if you can spare not wasting your money it's a good idea.

While I'm thinking about it, Devin Hester and Reggie Bush both have 2 TD.


:|

-Devin Hester still has more touchdowns than Reggie Bush


Devin Hester has 3 touchdowns... 2PR 1 FG return...

[P-L]

I disagree with Ryan Howard being MVP. He really didn't have better stats at all. He had Pujols beat in HR and RBI, that's it. He also only had 12 more RBI in 16 more games. Not really a big difference. Pujols had better stats in all the hitting categories and struck out less than 1/3 of as many times as Howard did. Pujols also led the majors in VORP. Howard was a huge part of the Phillies success, but so was Pujols with the Cards. The Cardinals would've finished 3rd, maybe even 4th without Pujols. The voters just f'ed this up.

[P-L]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x
Speier got a 4 year contract, and probably for pretty good money. The reliever market is sooooo thin this year that if you can spare not wasting your money it's a good idea.

While I'm thinking about it, Devin Hester and Reggie Bush both have 2 TD.


:|

-Devin Hester still has more touchdowns than Reggie Bush


Devin Hester has 3 touchdowns... 2PR 1 FG return...

:oops: I forgot about the FG return... Oops.

[bearsfan_51]

Jays win WS even with Josh Towers going 0-20.

yeah right, first we sign Thomas, now we get rid of Speier...I don't know...I really don't... :x
Speier got a 4 year contract, and probably for pretty good money. The reliever market is sooooo thin this year that if you can spare not wasting your money it's a good idea.

While I'm thinking about it, Devin Hester and Reggie Bush both have 2 TD.


:|


-Devin Hester still has more touchdowns than Reggie Bush


Devin Hester has 3 touchdowns... 2PR 1 FG return...


:oops: I forgot about the FG return... Oops.
It's ok. Check it out on youtube. It's quite the treat. 8)

Here's another thing I hate. Fans of teams that have a payroll above 100 million that ***** about the Yankees. Please shut the **** up.

You are just as big a part of the problem as anyone else, and it's ******* infuriating being a fan of the Pirates, or the Royals, or the Indians, or even the A's to hear some Red Sox or Mets fan (nothing personal to either team, just the first that came into my head) complain about how much money the Yankees spend. No you are not the underdog. You don't get to play that card. Sorry.

Same goes for the Tigers.

[P-L]

I'm pretty sure Red Sox and Mets fans have stopped bitching about the Yankees spending a few years ago, at least the ones I know.

[bearsfan_51]

They were just the first two I thought of, and probably not the best examples.

The same goes for the Tigers, the White Sox, the Angels, the Dodgers, the Cardinals, the Braves (to a certain extent), and any other team that spends money like there's no tommorow.

Actually my biggest angst was at the media trying to portray the Tigers as some sort of small-market wonder. Nevermind the massive contracts they gave to Rogers, I-Rod, Ordonez, and now Sheffield.

They did the same thing with the W-Sox in '05 too. So long as a team isn't from New York or Boston they are some sort of Cinderella story.

[GB12]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

Not us :cry:

[bearsfan_51]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

Not us :cry:
I got mad love for the Brewers.

[GB12]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

Not us :cry:
I got mad love for the Brewers.

This is kind of old news but it probably hasn't been said on here yet.
Bill Hall will likely move full time to the OF.

[bigrick0016]

284/324/372

What are these numbers? Juan Pierre's BA/OBP/SLUG% the past two years. his Isolated OBP is .040 which is well below average (he only drew an average of 36.5 BB's the past two years). His ISO slugging is .088. Which means he is a singles hitter. he only averages 38.5 doubles and triples (in comparison he averages 158 singles) a year even though he blessed with tremendous speed. Money well spent LA.

75% SB sucess rate

And what does this tell us kiddies? 75% is the baseline stolen base success rate you should have. That's right kiddies, it has proven through the run expectancy tables that a player must steal at around 75% to not hurt the team. Because Juan Pierre has averaged only a 75% success rate the last two years, all of his running basically breaks even for him. Money well spent LA.

-2

What's this number? It's Juan Pierre's FRAA2 (Fielding Runs Above Adjuste adjusted) average for the past two years (he was a -6 in '05 and a +2 last year. So what does a -2 mean? He's allowed two more runs than the average Centerfielder on defense. Money well spent LA.




I could point out many more stats to prove why Juan Pierre isn't a very good player, but I don't want to rub it in Dodgers fan faces (like my good buddy SARF). How does this happen? How can an overrated player like this get 9 million? Ned Coletti is a very old school guy, and for some reason brutally old school guys won't get it through their heads that speed alone doesn't make you a good leadoff hitter. Furthermore, speed alone does not make you a good defensive player.

I'd also like to point out I did not use one offensive metric in determining his worth, and I could've.

[NickBam]

284/324/372

What are these numbers? Juan Pierre's BA/OBP/SLUG% the past two yearss. Money well spent LA.

75% SB sucess rate

And what does this tell us kiddies? 75% is the baseline stoolen base success rate you should have. That's right kiddies, it has proven through the run expectancy tables that a player must steal at around 75% to not hurt the team. Because Juan Pierre has averaged only a 75% success rate helast two years, all of his running basically breaks even for him. Money well spent LA.

-2

What's this number? It's Juan Pierre's FRAA2 (Fielding Runs Above Adjuste adjusted) average for the pasttwo years (he was a -5 in '05 and a +2 last year. So what does a ,-2 mean? He's allowed tw more runs than the average Centerfielder on defense. Money well spent LA.




I could point out many more stats to prove why Juan Pierre isn't a very good player, but I don't want to rub it in Dodgers fan faces (like my good buddy SARF). How does this happen? How can an overrated player like this get 9 million? Ned Coletti is a very old school guy, and for some reason brutally old school guys won't get it through their heads that speed doesn't make you a good leadoff hitter. Furthermore, speed does not make you a good defensive player.

I'd also like to point out I did not use one offensive metric in determining hisx worth, and I could've.

I was trying to explain how overrated Juan Pierre is to my friends last year and I think I was the only Cub fan I knew we traded good prospect for him.

[bigrick0016]

284/324/372

What are these numbers? Juan Pierre's BA/OBP/SLUG% the past two years. his Isolated OBP is .040 which is well below average (he only drew an average of 36.5 BB's the past two years). His ISO slugging is .088. Which means he is a singles hitter. he only averages 38.5 doubles and triples (in comparison he averages 158 singles) a year even though he blessed with tremendous speed. Money well spent LA.

75% SB sucess rate

And what does this tell us kiddies? 75% is the baseline stolen base success rate you should have. That's right kiddies, it has proven through the run expectancy tables that a player must steal at around 75% to not hurt the team. Because Juan Pierre has averaged only a 75% success rate the last two years, all of his running basically breaks even for him. Money well spent LA.

-2

What's this number? It's Juan Pierre's FRAA2 (Fielding Runs Above Adjuste adjusted) average for the past two years (he was a -6 in '05 and a +2 last year. So what does a -2 mean? He's allowed two more runs than the average Centerfielder on defense. Money well spent LA.




I could point out many more stats to prove why Juan Pierre isn't a very good player, but I don't want to rub it in Dodgers fan faces (like my good buddy SARF). How does this happen? How can an overrated player like this get 9 million? Ned Coletti is a very old school guy, and for some reason brutally old school guys won't get it through their heads that speed alone doesn't make you a good leadoff hitter. Furthermore, speed alone does not make you a good defensive player.

I'd also like to point out I did not use one offensive metric in determining his worth, and I could've.

Quoted because it was at the bottom of the page and I wanted you to read the edited and proofread not the version NickBam quoted.


(Thanks for reminding me of how awful I am Nick)

[Smokey Joe]

bearsfan_54...

just because the Indians suck, and have no money to spend on good players is no reason for you to hate every single team that spends money.

The White Sox don't spend money like crazy. They have 5 big contracts of around 10 million each for their starters, that is reasonable, in todays market. And they have 2 big contracts to Konerko and Thome (which half of it is getting paid by the phillies).

Players want more money, Agents want more money, Teams want the best players.

[MaxV]

I still hate baseball and every team that has a salary over 100 million.

One of those teams will be the Chicago Cubs this year.
I'm from Ohio homey, and in case you haven't noticed, I'm an Indians fan.

I now hate the Cubs for giving Soriano insane money and pushing up the market, and I hate the Dodgers for giving Juan Pierre 5 years-45 million.

The Mets and Yankees deals so far have actually been frugal in comparison. But then again, there's always time to screw that up.

Somehow I doubt you would be bitchin' like this if the Indians had the money and spend it like the rest of the big market teams.

I've NEVER complained about the Yankees spending. I hate them, but that's a different story.

Also, the Indians are building well and I think you guys will have a good team next year.

[Finsfan79]

Mets trade Milledge, Pelfrey/Humber and some addons for D-Train or they sign Zito.

maybe sign zito but willis isnt for trade


Following links show Willis not for trade:


Florida intends to keep Dontrelle Willis,
http://www.newsday.com/sports/printedition/ny-spgm174979518nov17,0,7176931.story?coll=ny-sports-print





Marlins are trying to do a long term contract with Willis and Miguel Cabrera:


Do you think Dontrelle Willis will be on the Opening Day roster? Is there any chance he will be traded? I hope not.
-- Michael C., Clermont, Fla.

You can pretty much put to rest any speculation that Willis or Miguel Cabrera will be traded. At last week's General Managers Meetings in Naples, Fla., I had two sources confirm both of the Marlins' young stars are not available for trades. Additionally, other media reports had sources reaffirming that the D-Train will not be on the move. With the payroll expected to be in the $25-$30 million range, Willis and Cabrera are budgeted for 2007.

If they remain with the team, will the Marlins seek to lock up either one for multi-year contracts? The front office's thinking is that if they do that, they would be deals of four years or more for a high dollar amount. Should the Marlins decide to go that route, they would want to lock up at least one or more years of each players' free agent-eligible years, since both will have the service time to be free agents after the 2009 season. Let's hope this answer puts to rest the continuous e-mails regarding whether Willis or Cabrera will be Marlins at the start of 2007.

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061118&content_id=1742973&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla



How about Directly from Minya?


QThe Mets seem "commited" into pushing to get Dontrelle Willis this offseason for a package of Milledge and Heilman or Pelfry. Do you think this is a good deal considering Willis is a Cy Young type pitcher compared to "if" maybe Willis was traded for players like Delmon Young and J.Shields or for E.Santana and C. Figgins?
Zach J, Miami Beach, FL 11/13/06
AI spoke to Mets GM Omar Minaya this morning and he said he's been told Dontrelle isn't available and the Mets aren't interested in putting together a trade package for a player who isn't going to be traded.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/qa_forum.htm?forumId=848&mode=display&action=&type=list&pageNo=3



I could give 5-10 more links talking of Willis not being available and he hasnt been available last year or this year. He has never been available for trade even. It has always been the NY media wanting him on the yankees or mets. It gets rather old after a while.



Florida is actively pursueing Baldelli, BJ Upton and somewhat Elijah dukes from TB. They are trying to put together a package supposedly around Ricky Nolasco to entice TB along with a few other pitchers. Nolasco is a solid number 3 projections for the future. Besides the mets last year he handled the rest of the league pretty good overall.


QOne NL executive said he thought the Marlins might be willing to part with a young starter such as Scott Olsen or Josh Johnson in exchange for Tampa Bay's Rocco Baldelli to solve their center field needs. Who would the Marlins really miss? Johnson had his ERA south of 3 for most of the season and Olsen strikes out batters.
Akira, Aventura, FL 11/17/06
AI doubt the Marlins would offer Johnson or Olsen. Ricky Nolasco as part of a package with minor leaguers is more likely. Tampa loves Olsen, though, and it makes sense to think they'd push hard for him.
Kevin Baxter 11/17/06

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/baseball/qa_forum.htm?forumId=848&mode=display&action=&type=list&pageNo=1

Kevin Baxter for those that dont know is the top baseball writer in south florida.


Other notes, Miguel Cabrera got 5th in the NL MVP race congrats to the 23 year old for 2 top 5 finishes in a row.

Dontrelle Willis got married last week, congrats to him and happy honeymoon.

And the marlins sent chris Resop to the LAA for Kevin Gregg and Bostick and Vargas to the mets for 2 MR in Owens and Linstrom.

Here is a link of those trades:

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061120&content_id=1744412&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla



Pretty much Larry Beinfest has been busy, rebuilding a bullpen and looking for a CF option.

[Tubby]

So... How 'bout those Seattle Mariners? How're they doin?

[eazyb81]

Did I miss something?

What happened to our big thread?

[Rob S]

Did I miss something?

What happened to our big thread?

looks scott deleted it for some reason

[slightlyaraiderfan]

Did I miss something?

What happened to our big thread?

looks scott deleted it for some reason
That thread was getting "No Post Exsist" That's the only reason a new one was started.

[Rob S]

Did I miss something?

What happened to our big thread?

looks scott deleted it for some reason
That thread was getting "No Post Exsist" That's the only reason a new one was started.

ok, thanks sarf

[bearsfan_51]

bearsfan_54...

just because the Indians suck, and have no money to spend on good players is no reason for you to hate every single team that spends money.

The White Sox don't spend money like crazy. They have 5 big contracts of around 10 million each for their starters, that is reasonable, in todays market. And they have 2 big contracts to Konerko and Thome (which half of it is getting paid by the phillies).

Players want more money, Agents want more money, Teams want the best players.
Don't even confuse me with that hack 54 again.

The White Sox indeed do spend money like crazy. They have one of the top 5 payrolls in all of baseball. There's nothing "reasonable" about that. There's nothing reasonable about baseball in general.

As for the Indians sucking. We've been a better team than the Sox over the past ten years, so that argument really doesn't hold much water.

As for whether or not I would be in support of a hard cap if I was a fan of the Mets, that's hard to say. I never used to like the idea of a cap. I like the Yankees as the "evil empire" but it's gotten out of hand. The free agency period in baseball makes me absolutely sick. I can't really even say I'm a fan of baseball. I only watch now to hope that players on the big market teams get injured and or die, and rooting for teams like the Royals and the Pirates to at least eek out a few respectable seasons.

In fact, I really don't even include the Indians in the same category as those teams. We're more in the mold with the Twins and the A's. The problem is that it's like fighting guerilla warfare with a banana against a massive army. Yeah you can hold out for a while, but eventually the numbers game overtakes you. The only reason why the A's are so competitive is because they keep playing off the stupidity of big market teams. If you even out the market most of those teams wouldn't even sniff a world series.

[bearsfan_51]

By the way..the Indians are apparently set to sign Roberto Hernandez and word is that they are "close" on a deal with Borowski, so it's not like they don't have any money to spend. They just have to limit themselves to that 3rd-tier.

It's teams like the Pirates that can't even sniff a free agent. And maybe they should just contract the team, or make it a AAA team. I dunno...but it sure as hell isn't fair.

[P-L]

The thing is most of these teams do have the money to raise payroll, they just don't. I can't speak for all teams, so I couldn't tell you which teams can afford to spend more, but most of them can. You'll always have your teams like the Pirates and Marlins (to an certain degree) that can't spend year after year, but most teams don't spend because they choose not to. I found an article, that while is from the 2001 season, it gives you a general idea of what's going on. The Brewers, Tigers, Reds, A's, and Twins were 5 of the top 8 most profitable baseball organizations that year. And all 5 of those teams place in the bottom 11 in payroll that year. That year the Red Sox were the 6th least profitable team in baseball, but had the second highest payroll. And the Dodgers made the least amount of money in baseball that year, but had the third highest payroll. I can see why fans of the Indians, Pirates, Royals, and Marlins (for the most part) can complain. But for fans of teams like the Twins and the A's, there should be nothing to complain about. Your team is making plenty of money, the owners are just sticking it into their pockets.

[nobodyinparticular]

The A's have been way too quiet this offseason so far. This is really boring... zzzz...

[bearsfan_51]

The thing is most of these teams do have the money to raise payroll, they just don't. I can't speak for all teams, so I couldn't tell you which teams can afford to spend more, but most of them can. You'll always have your teams like the Pirates and Marlins (to an certain degree) that can't spend year after year, but most teams don't spend because they choose not to. I found an article, that while is from the 2001 season, it gives you a general idea of what's going on. The Brewers, Tigers, Reds, A's, and Twins were 5 of the top 8 most profitable baseball organizations that year. And all 5 of those teams place in the bottom 11 in payroll that year. That year the Red Sox were the 6th least profitable team in baseball, but had the second highest payroll. And the Dodgers made the least amount of money in baseball that year, but had the third highest payroll. I can see why fans of the Indians, Pirates, Royals, and Marlins (for the most part) can complain. But for fans of teams like the Twins and the A's, there should be nothing to complain about. Your team is making plenty of money, the owners are just sticking it into their pockets.
Yeah...and I used to say the same thing. That was the biggest reason why I wasn't a huge fan of complete revenue sharing like the NFL has, because there are a lot of really bad owners out there that simply aren't trying to win. That's why I think they should consider contracting certain MLB teams. It's a much bigger argument than I make it out to be, and I'm obviously just frustrated when Juan Pierre gets 45 million ******* dollars, but I still think something needs to be done. If we can sign the two relievers mention I'll at least be pacified for the moment as we would have accomplished our two biggest goals this offseason, 2nd base and bullpen.

[thule]

I renamed Carl Pohlad, EBENEZER SCROOGE

On another note....looks like MN is really trying to get something done with the rockies for Jennings. Rumor is were planning on shipping Crain and Ford.

I doubt that gets the job done...probabally take someone like Rincon, Garza, Slowey, or Baker to seal the deal.

[eazyb81]

I hear that Morneau has won the AL MVP.....

[P-L]

The link...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnN9CX3aZ7JfY8H41LAx3Y05nYcB?slug=ap-almvp&prov=ap&type=lgns

[MaxV]

The link...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnN9CX3aZ7JfY8H41LAx3Y05nYcB?slug=ap-almvp&prov=ap&type=lgns

Watch Jughead explode with rage. :D

[Giantsfan1080]

The link...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnN9CX3aZ7JfY8H41LAx3Y05nYcB?slug=ap-almvp&prov=ap&type=lgns

Watch Jughead explode with rage. :D

He's in England so he won't find out for a week. Morneau should have won over Jeter.

[MaxV]

The link...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AnN9CX3aZ7JfY8H41LAx3Y05nYcB?slug=ap-almvp&prov=ap&type=lgns

Watch Jughead explode with rage. :D

He's in England so he won't find out for a week. Morneau should have won over Jeter.

They have computers in UK, don't they?

He probably found out the tragic news already.

[thule]

2 points for the twinkies...now if only we had a LF worth having...kubel and white aren't exactly worthy players.

[The Unseen]

I like the Morneau victory. The dark horse pulls it off, although I had heard that an unoffical WS voter poll saying that they were to vote for Morneau.

[TitleTown088]

I hear that Morneau has won the AL MVP.....
your damn right, he deserved it too.

[TitleTown088]

2 points for the twinkies...now if only we had a LF worth having...kubel and white aren't exactly worthy players.
they should have gotten sheiffield

[Tobzilla]

Im so happy Morneau won it over Jeter; justice has been served today. :D

[bearsfan_51]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

[MaxV]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

I've lost all faith in MVP votings several years ago.

Similarly to GG votings and All-Star votings, it has become a popularity contest.

[bearsfan_51]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

I've lost all faith in MVP votings several years ago.

Similarly to GG votings and All-Star votings, it has become a popularity contest.
I don't buy that at all. If it were a popularity contest Jeter would win ever year. They should just call it the "most awesome" award.

[roughrider30]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

I've lost all faith in MVP votings several years ago.

Similarly to GG votings and All-Star votings, it has become a popularity contest.

ive actually had some faith restored with Morneau winning it. If Jeter would have won it would seem more like a popularity contest.

[Vikes99ej]

Ha ha... screw you Jeter. I didn't really think Morneau was the best in the NFC, but I'm just glad to see the media angry.

[Damix]

Ha ha... screw you Jeter. I didn't really think Morneau was the best in the NFC, but I'm just glad to see the media angry.

Yes cause there is a NFC in the MLB

[Brodeur]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

Hell, he might be fifth(Santana, Mauer are the obvious, but Nathan and maybe even Hunter). I didn't like either of the choices for MVP, because personally I think Pujols and Santana should have won it.

[bearsfan_51]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

Hell, he might be fifth(Santana, Mauer are the obvious, but Nathan and maybe even Hunter). I didn't like either of the choices for MVP, because personally I think Pujols and Santana should have won it.
Liriano? :?

[DHVF]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.Nope, he was most definitely #2. Not to discredit him, but Mauer really wasn't as valuable to our team as many people think.

[bearsfan_51]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.Nope, he was most definitely #2. Not to discredit him, but Mauer really wasn't as valuable to our team as many people think.
I've heard Twins fans say that before, and I'm not saying that I know more about the Twins than you or they do, but as a fan of a team with a terrible defensive catcher I think Twins fans take for granted how incredibly important that is. Lots of players can hit for power. Good defensive catchers that hit almost .400 are a once in a lifetime thing.

[DHVF]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.Nope, he was most definitely #2. Not to discredit him, but Mauer really wasn't as valuable to our team as many people think.
I've heard Twins fans say that before, and I'm not saying that I know more about the Twins than you or they do, but as a fan of a team with a terrible defensive catcher I think Twins fans take for granted how incredibly important that is. Lots of players can hit for power. Good defensive catchers that hit almost .400 are a once in a lifetime thing.Oh no doubt that catchers such as Mauer are extremely rare, but Justin Morneau gave the Twins something they had lacked for over 15 years. He finally gave them that consistent middle of the order power hitter who came through when there were runners in scoring position. Another thing about Mauer that many fail to realize, is that he is just not a clutch hitter. He proved it many times throughout the season that in crucial situations, he's not gonna bail your team out. BTW, there's still no doubt in my mind though that Santana was the most valuable player not only on our team, but also in the league.

[yodapoop]

Good for Ryan Howard and Brandon Webb. Very diserving of their awards. Without them, their teams would be as smelly as the dump I just took.

[Tobzilla]

Twins 2006

1 - Santana
2 - Liriano
3a - Mauer
3b - Morneau
4 - Nathan
5 - Cuddeyer

[yodapoop]

I can't see why people can argue against people winning the MVP. Howard and Morneau were very diserving. And to those New York homers who think Jeter shoulda won (cough Woody Paige cough), please shut up.

[bigrick0016]

The quote below is for all who mention Morneau's "clutchness"

The correlation between past and current clutch performance is .01, with a standard deviation of .07. In other words, there isn't a significant ability in clutch hitting; if there were, the same players would be good clutch hitters every year.

Quote is from David Grabiner's "Study of clutch hittitng"
http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/grabiner/fullclutch.html

I could point to the RBI's overratedness and many, many metrics to prove Justin Morneau is not the MVP. However I will pose just 1 simple question: Do MVP's have .375 OBP's and only draw 44 unintentional walks?

[Brodeur]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

Hell, he might be fifth(Santana, Mauer are the obvious, but Nathan and maybe even Hunter). I didn't like either of the choices for MVP, because personally I think Pujols and Santana should have won it.
Liriano? :?

He missed too much time for me to consider him.

[bearsfan_51]

The funny thing is the Morneau is the 3rd, and arguably the 4th most important player on his own team.

Hell, he might be fifth(Santana, Mauer are the obvious, but Nathan and maybe even Hunter). I didn't like either of the choices for MVP, because personally I think Pujols and Santana should have won it.
Liriano? :?

He missed too much time for me to consider him.
To me he's just as important as anyone in them turning it around. He changed the culture of that team.

[Finsfan79]

I dont believe in clutch personally. I think it is overhype in the media.

Mourneau wouldnt of been my first choice that would of been Santana whom won the triple crown of pitching and was the most dominating player in the AL.

I would of went Pujols in the NL as well.

That said I think the MVP shouldnt have to come from the teams that make the playoffs it seems a trend more and more only they get considered and that fact annoys me.

[MaxV]

P-L, are you still working on 11-20?

I'm sorry for being a nuisance, it's just patience is NOT one of my virtues.

[P-L]

I'm still working on it, so there may be some changes before I finish 21-30, but here is what I got as of now.

11. Matt Garza, RHP, Minnesota Twins
12. Andrew McCutcheon, OF, Pittsburgh Pirates
13. Mike Pelfrey, RHP, New York Mets
14. Chris Young, OF, Arizona Diamondbacks
15. Billy Butler, OF, Kansas City Royals
16. Andrew Miller, LHP, Detroit Tigers
17. Josh Fields, 3B, Chicago White Sox
18. Yovani Gallardo, RHP, Milwaukee Brewers
19. Evan Longoria, 3B, Tampa Bay Devil Rays
20. Adam Miller, RHP, Cleveland Indians

[MaxV]

I'm still working on it, so there may be some changes before I finish 21-30, but here is what I got as of now.

11. Matt Garza, RHP, Minnesota Twins
12. Andrew McCutcheon, OF, Pittsburgh Pirates
13. Mike Pelfrey, RHP, New York Mets
14. Chris Young, OF, Arizona Diamondbacks
15. Billy Butler, OF, Kansas City Royals
16. Andrew Miller, LHP, Detroit Tigers
17. Josh Fields, 3B, Chicago White Sox
18. Yovani Gallardo, RHP, Milwaukee Brewers
19. Evan Longoria, 3B, Tampa Bay Devil Rays
20. Adam Miller, RHP, Cleveland Indians

Very good list.

Which position do you think Butler will play in the majors? Or is he a DH all the way?

[Damix]

Looks like the Angels snagged Mathews Jr for 5 yrs 50 mil

[eazyb81]

Looks like the Angels snagged Mathews Jr for 5 yrs 50 mil

Unbelievable......what an awful deal. How could Moreno be so stupid? Matthews was a nobody until last year and ends up having a career year.....on top of that, he is already on the wrong side of 30 (he's 32).

Hello? Why would anyone involved with the Angels organization think this is a good deal? Why not just trade for a cheap CF like Baldelli or Dejesus and get equal or probably even better production over the next few years? Just ridiculously stupid.

[MaxV]

5 year $50 Million is an INSANE deal for Mathews.

Could they consider the fact that EVERYONE puts up great numbers in that Texas stadium?

[bearsfan_51]

Insane. Absurd. Beyond comprehension. Baseball is in need of a massive overhaul. The apocolypse is upon us.

[Damix]

Insane. Absurd. Beyond comprehension. Baseball is in need of a massive overhaul. The apocolypse is upon us.

Would you rather the large markets pocket all the extra money?

[Rob S]

wow, gary matthews pulled an eric dampier :lol:

[InvisiblePinkUnicorn]

Looks like the Angels snagged Mathews Jr for 5 yrs 50 mil

Unbelievable......what an awful deal. How could Moreno be so stupid? Matthews was a nobody until last year and ends up having a career year.....on top of that, he is already on the wrong side of 30 (he's 32).

Hello? Why would anyone involved with the Angels organization think this is a good deal? Why not just trade for a cheap CF like Baldelli or Dejesus and get equal or probably even better production over the next few years? Just ridiculously stupid.

What ever happened to baldelli, haven't followed baseball for a few years but i remember i loved the young guys Tampa had and Baldelli and Crawford were both playing great.

[Brodeur]

Looks like the Angels snagged Mathews Jr for 5 yrs 50 mil

Unbelievable......what an awful deal. How could Moreno be so stupid? Matthews was a nobody until last year and ends up having a career year.....on top of that, he is already on the wrong side of 30 (he's 32).

Hello? Why would anyone involved with the Angels organization think this is a good deal? Why not just trade for a cheap CF like Baldelli or Dejesus and get equal or probably even better production over the next few years? Just ridiculously stupid.

Baldelli's a better CF right now than Gary Matthews Jr.(doubt that all you want, it's true) hitting wise, speed wise, and perhaps even fielding wise. Plus, he's only 25. Tampa wouldn't trade him for something small.

And that's a horrible deal as is 5/45 to Juan Pierre from the Dodgers. Kenny Lofton is just as good as both and he probably won't even get 1 year for 6 million.

[Rob S]

Looks like the Angels snagged Mathews Jr for 5 yrs 50 mil

Unbelievable......what an awful deal. How could Moreno be so stupid? Matthews was a nobody until last year and ends up having a career year.....on top of that, he is already on the wrong side of 30 (he's 32).

Hello? Why would anyone involved with the Angels organization think this is a good deal? Why not just trade for a cheap CF like Baldelli or Dejesus and get equal or probably even better production over the next few years? Just ridiculously stupid.

Baldelli's a better CF right now than Gary Matthews Jr.(doubt that all you want, it's true) hitting wise, speed wise, and perhaps even fielding wise. Plus, he's only 25. Tampa wouldn't trade him for something small.

And that's a horrible deal as is 5/45 to Juan Pierre from the Dodgers. Kenny Lofton is just as good as both and he probably won't even get 1 year for 6 million.

juan pierre is just a bad player, period.

[miamichamp_305]

Show of hands who would rather have a pile of crap in CF and batting then Mathews and Pierre.

*raises hand*

[Rob S]

Show of hands who would rather have a pile of crap in CF and batting then Mathews and Pierre.

*raises hand*

Matthews isnt bad (his contract is, not him). Pierre on the other hand....

[DHVF]

Show of hands who would rather have a pile of crap in CF and batting then Mathews and Pierre.

*raises hand*Mathews at the very least will give you excellent defense, Juan Pierre on the other hand...

[bearsfan_51]

Insane. Absurd. Beyond comprehension. Baseball is in need of a massive overhaul. The apocolypse is upon us.

Would you rather the large markets pocket all the extra money?
Is this a trick question? Of course I would. If I was god the salary cap would be set at 95 million dollars and you can stick the extra money up your ass for all I care. Teams in the NFL make more money than others that they can't blow on payroll...it's called parity.

Gary Matthews is a career .263 hitter and is making 10 million dollars a year. That's ******* insane.

[Brodeur]

Show of hands who would rather have a pile of crap in CF and batting then Mathews and Pierre.

*raises hand*Mathews at the very least will give you excellent defense, Juan Pierre on the other hand...

Not really. He's not that good of a defensive CF, he makes highlight reel catches but he isn't close to the defensive OF Ichiro is.

[VoteLynnSwan]

Show of hands who would rather have a pile of crap in CF and batting then Mathews and Pierre.

*raises hand*Mathews at the very least will give you excellent defense, Juan Pierre on the other hand...

Not really. He's not that good of a defensive CF, he makes highlight reel catches but he isn't close to the defensive OF Ichiro is.

one could make the Jim Edmonds argument here... Matthews isn't very fast... and his range in CF is limited... so a catch someone like Ichiro or Torri Hunter would make look routine... he makes it look spectacular because he HAS to dive for it.

[D-Unit]

As a Rangers fan I'm disappointed that we lost Matthews. He's a solid role player to have on your team. For 10M a year, you want a higher caliber player, but he'll win some games for you at unexpected times.

I do like the Frank Catalanotto signing. He's just a solid solid baseball player. He's always batted near .300 for his career and with the bombers that the Rangers are always used to having a pure hitter is a valued commodity. He'll be batting at the top of the order. Between him and Michael Young, the Rangers seem to have a solid chance of getting players on base when the big bats are up to bat.

I really want the Rangers to do all they can to re-sign Carlos Lee. Mark Teixeira had a slumping year last year.

[GB12]

I really want the Rangers to do all they can to re-sign Carlos Lee. Mark Teixeira had a slumping year last year.

I don't but, We'll give you Kevin Mench back.

[P-L]

Which position do you think Butler will play in the majors? Or is he a DH all the way?

Almost everything I've read from scouts is that he is a DH all the way. There has also been talk at an eventual move to 1B but everything I have on him indicates that he won't play OF at the next level.

[P-L]

Originally, it was rumored that Matthews was going to get 5 years at $55 million. Here's what I wrote about that on another site...

Giving Gary Matthews Jr. $11 over 5 years would easily be the worst offseason move this season. I know this free agent class is fairly weak, but that's way too much money. He had a career year last year, and that's nice. It probably should make him more money than he deserves. But look at his career as a whole. This guy is a career .263/.336/.419 hitter. He strikes out too often. He doesn't steal often and has a poor stolen base rate. I just don't buy the idea that he's going to play at last year's pace for 5 more years.

After signing for $1 million less than originally rumored, I think this is now tied with the Pierre signing for worst of the offseason.

[Brodeur]

As a Rangers fan I'm disappointed that we lost Matthews. He's a solid role player to have on your team. For 10M a year, you want a higher caliber player, but he'll win some games for you at unexpected times.

I do like the Frank Catalanotto signing. He's just a solid solid baseball player. He's always batted near .300 for his career and with the bombers that the Rangers are always used to having a pure hitter is a valued commodity. He'll be batting at the top of the order. Between him and Michael Young, the Rangers seem to have a solid chance of getting players on base when the big bats are up to bat.

I really want the Rangers to do all they can to re-sign Carlos Lee. Mark Teixeira had a slumping year last year.

Cat is a good signing, but he's terrible against left handed pitching, although I doubt that they actually bat him against anything but righties.

[eazyb81]

Which position do you think Butler will play in the majors? Or is he a DH all the way?

Almost everything I've read from scouts is that he is a DH all the way. There has also been talk at an eventual move to 1B but everything I have on him indicates that he won't play OF at the next level.

Actually, the DH talk started when he was drafted, but has practically come to a stop after this past season. By all reports he improved by leaps and bounds in right field this year and the Royals are penciling him into RF and some point in 07. He has plus arm strength (threw mid 90's off the mound in HS) and that will help him get out of many jams in the field.

[Philliez01]

With the insanely high-priced contracts given to Soriano, Matthews Jr., Pierre and soon to be Lee and Drew, all of a sudden Pat Burrell must have some value left. I mean, he strikes out a ton and chokes more than Brittney Skye does but someone will see 29 HRs and 95 RBIs and think that he can get some end-of-the-rotation starter and quality middle reliever at the least. I expect to see an outfield of Victorino-Rowand-Bourn/Conine in '07 which is not exactly good anyway.

[P-L]

Which position do you think Butler will play in the majors? Or is he a DH all the way?

Almost everything I've read from scouts is that he is a DH all the way. There has also been talk at an eventual move to 1B but everything I have on him indicates that he won't play OF at the next level.

Actually, the DH talk started when he was drafted, but has practically come to a stop after this past season. By all reports he improved by leaps and bounds in right field this year and the Royals are penciling him into RF and some point in 07. He has plus arm strength (threw mid 90's off the mound in HS) and that will help him get out of many jams in the field.

My mistake in releasing my top 50 before I got all of this year's scouting reports. Thanks for the updated info though. If you don't mind, I might ask for some future Royals information. The latest I had heard, he was still being considered a DH. Glad to hear he's doing better in the field. Thanks for the update.

[SuperMcgee]

I really want the Rangers to do all they can to re-sign Carlos Lee. Mark Teixeira had a slumping year last year.

Same state, wrong team

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2674398

Lee to be an Astro

[Smokey Joe]

LOL!!! 17 million per year for 6 years for a club house cancer who can't play D! Have Astros with your Loser player. HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!111

[jayceheathman]

LOL!!! 17 million per year for 6 years for a club house cancer who can't play D! Have Astros with your Loser player. HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!111

Thats true but there are not any more power hitters left in free agency. Carlos Lee and Lance Berkman will be a scary lineup. Plus the Astros have so much money to spend because Bagwell, Clemens, and possibly Pettite will not be back.

[GB12]

LOL!!! 17 million per year for 6 years for a club house cancer who can't play D! Have Astros with your Loser player. HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!111

He's not a cancer at all. It must be something with the CWS because ever since he came to Milwaukee he was fine. I'm glad that we got the better of the trade but it is almost worse that he is going to a division rival.

[Scotty D]

LOL!!! 17 million per year for 6 years for a club house cancer who can't play D! Have Astros with your Loser player. HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!111

Are you bitter or something? Carlos Lee is a damn fine player, and his contract is not bad in todays market. He is also an underrated defender.

[TH3]

Carlos Lee for 17 mil>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Bagwell for 17 mil

[Rob S]

Lee's contract is not terrible, probably bad, but not terrible like the soriano and matthews debacles.

[The Unseen]

Gary Matthews is being payed tens of millions of dollars extra for his centerfield catch.

[Scotty D]

Gary Matthews is being payed tens of millions of dollars extra for his centerfield catch.

Good for him.

[bearsfan_51]

The Carlos Lee deal is bad. But I think I'd rather have Carlos Lee for 17 million than Gary Matthews and Juan Pierre for 19. Jesus...that's terrible no matter which way you look at it.

[4pAc]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/22/bc.bbn.cubs.colangelo.ap/index.html

[GB12]

The Carlos Lee deal is bad. But I think I'd rather have Carlos Lee for 17 million than Gary Matthews and Juan Pierre for 19. Jesus...that's terrible no matter which way you look at it.

I'd rather have Lee for 21 than one of them for 19.

[Damix]

Woody Williams also signed with the Astros today, I see that as a better deal then the Lee signing

[D-Unit]

Well the Rangers look like losers after the Milwaukee trade after losing Lee. Francisco Cordero is a legit closer/set up man. I was always a fan of Laynce Nix and Mench is a pretty good player in his own right.

Nelson Cruz showed some fancy potential when the Rangers played him last year. He's hoping the guy turns out to be a stud.

Maybe Jon Daniels has actually has a smart strategy of spending the Rangers money on pitching.

Go get Jason Schmidt, Zito and resign Eaton and Padilla.

[GB12]

Cordero has been great for us, I havent seen much of Nix, but Mench has been nothing since comeing here and we are looking to trade him.

[D-Unit]

Cordero has been great for us, I havent seen much of Nix, but Mench has been nothing since comeing here and we are looking to trade him.
What's your take on Nelson Cruz?

[GB12]

Cordero has been great for us, I havent seen much of Nix, but Mench has been nothing since comeing here and we are looking to trade him.
What's your take on Nelson Cruz?

I thought he would be the one to replace Lee, thats why I was upset when he was included. He wasn't up in the big leagues for us so I haven't seen much of him. You have to wonder though why other young outfeilders like Corey Hart and Tony Gwynn Jr. were called up but he wasn't.

[Brodeur]

Lee's contract is not terrible, probably bad, but not terrible like the soriano and matthews debacles.

Haha, Soriano's contract isn't nearly as bad as Lee's.

[D-Unit]

Gosh with all these bad contracts being signed it seems Amaris Ramirez was stupid to sign early. Cubs resigned him for a DEAL!

[Damix]

Looks like Dave Roberts to the Giants on a 3 year deal, dunno how much

Rod Barajas to the Blue Jays for 2 yrs 6 mil.

[Dillen]

Looks like Dave Roberts to the Giants on a 3 year deal, dunno how much
Damn, are they TRYING to get older? It's a horribly run franchise.

[P-L]

Considering the market, all of these deals aren't that bad. The Soriano, Matthews, and Pierre deals were the only real bad ones. Players are being overpaid, but the market is so weak that teams are bidding against each other. This is why J.D. Drew opted out of his contract with 3 years left.

[ccB]

I hate the Orioles.

[Xiomera]

The Tigers need to get a left-hander in their bullpen . . . anyone out there available in a trade? Who is left on the market? Ron Villone? Schoenweis?

What would it take to get Mike Gonzalez from Pittsburgh? I know they had interest in Marcus Thames . . .

[Brodeur]

Arizona trades Johnny Estrada, Dana Eveland and Dave Krynzel to Milwaukee for Doug Davis, Greg Aquino, and Claudio Vargas.

Doug Davis is a solid lefty who will pitch 200 innings a year and will join the guaranteed 200 innings guys in Brandon Webb and Livan Hernandez. Milwaukee got Estrada for his offense, so it's a pretty even deal on both ends. Krynzel is a disappointment, while Eveland could be a decent middle reliever. Aquino is a decent reliever and Vargas a decent starter.

[GB12]

Arizona trades Johnny Estrada, Dana Eveland and Dave Krynzel to Milwaukee for Doug Davis, Greg Aquino, and Claudio Vargas.

Doug Davis is a solid lefty who will pitch 200 innings a year and will join the guaranteed 200 innings guys in Brandon Webb and Livan Hernandez. Milwaukee got Estrada for his offense, so it's a pretty even deal on both ends. Krynzel is a disappointment, while Eveland could be a decent middle reliever. Aquino is a decent reliever and Vargas a decent starter.

That's a little backwards

Arizona gets
Davis
Eveland
Krynzel

Milwaukee gets
Estrada
Vargas
Aquino

Right now I don't really like it, but our GMs always seem to pull off good trades.

[Brodeur]

Arizona trades Johnny Estrada, Dana Eveland and Dave Krynzel to Milwaukee for Doug Davis, Greg Aquino, and Claudio Vargas.

Doug Davis is a solid lefty who will pitch 200 innings a year and will join the guaranteed 200 innings guys in Brandon Webb and Livan Hernandez. Milwaukee got Estrada for his offense, so it's a pretty even deal on both ends. Krynzel is a disappointment, while Eveland could be a decent middle reliever. Aquino is a decent reliever and Vargas a decent starter.

That's a little backwards

Arizona gets
Davis
Eveland
Krynzel

Milwaukee gets
Estrada
Vargas
Aquino

Right now I don't really like it, but our GMs always seem to pull off good trades.

I know, I ****** that up a little bit, ah well.

[Finsfan79]

davis can strike out 200 a year as a lefty not sure how he will do in that park though. Estrada though isnt a big loss as Montero is ready.


for The woody williams signing a fly ball pitcher in houston's park? good luck on that one.

[GB12]

After reading this http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=535160 I'm liking the trade more.

[Windy]

davis can strike out 200 a year as a lefty not sure how he will do in that park though. Estrada though isnt a big loss as Montero is ready.


for The woody williams signing a fly ball pitcher in houston's park? good luck on that one.

woody williams has an amazing record at minute maid.

[sweetness34]

LOL!!! 17 million per year for 6 years for a club house cancer who can't play D! Have Astros with your Loser player. HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!111

Are you bitter or something? Carlos Lee is a damn fine player, and his contract is not bad in todays market. He is also an underrated defender.

A damn fine hitter. His defense is very suspect and he's lazy.

[GB12]

LOL!!! 17 million per year for 6 years for a club house cancer who can't play D! Have Astros with your Loser player. HAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!!111

Are you bitter or something? Carlos Lee is a damn fine player, and his contract is not bad in todays market. He is also an underrated defender.

A damn fine hitter. His defense is very suspect and he's lazy.

His defense isnt that bad. Obviously no where near a gold glove, but he'll get it done.

[bigrick0016]

The Carlos Lee deal is not awful. It's not particularily good though either. He is being paid too much money, even if you realize the market. However, the money is not so bad as it is the length. The length of the contract is shortsighted both in terms of defense and offense.
Power hitters with a skill set like him (not an athletic build, not very fast, doesn't walk a lot) tend to not age well as hitters. As a defender he is below average. The defensive metrics like Zone Rating, RATE2, FRAA show a below average fielder, scouts say he is below average, and from what I have seen he is below average. So my conclusion is, he's a below average defender. Yet, at this point he is not team killingly below average. However, at the end the end of this deal he probably will be.
I see some positives though. He is a righty pull hitter who makes alot of contact (not alot of walks, doesn't K excessively) in a park where I can spit a sunflower seed over the left field fence. To me it looks like they're mortgaging their future for a run while the core of their team (Berkman, Oswalt and now Lee) are still in their prime. They want to resign Pettitte and make another run at the Rocket and they think that this team can be a WS contendor.
To be a WS contendor they need to be rid of atleast 1 of the 3 players that provide little to no offensive help (Ausmus, Taveras, Everett). At least Everett and Taveras are teriffic defenders. Ausmus' D just can't carry the stick anymore.

[eazyb81]

davis can strike out 200 a year as a lefty not sure how he will do in that park though. Estrada though isnt a big loss as Montero is ready.


for The woody williams signing a fly ball pitcher in houston's park? good luck on that one.

woody williams has an amazing record at minute maid.

Williams will get eaten alive for that short porch in left field.

[Windy]

Giants are looking to sign Dave Roberts to a 3 year deal between 16 and 18 million.

[HawkeyeFan]

Braves are looking to sign ... Oh yea, they'll probrably just give Reitsma a 2 year 10 mil extention and think they fixed the bullpen problems.

God there Front Office and Owners are horrible.

[bigrick0016]

I know I'm a little late on this, but Joe Sheehan puts into words what I could not on the Justin Morneau debacle. This is an excerpt from it. I deleted some of the Ryan Howard related stuff, I tried to focus on his thoughts on Morneau.




Although I couldn't remember exactly where you had ranked Justin Morneau in your AL MVP picks, I was surprised again to see that you had him 15th. Wow. I doubt you will ever concede a mistake, but perhaps it is time to re-think how you analyze these things. Your recognition of a mainstream bias against progressive statistics like VORP and RARP seems to have morphed into a bias of your own--against traditional HR and RBI guys. Today's announcement only highlights how far you've gone. C'mon now, can you admit that there's no way he should've been 15th?!? --K.F.

Yeah, I should let the BBRAA change my mind. That's a good approach to life.

The writers got it wrong, plain and simple. They identified two guys who had lots of RBIs on good teams and voted for them, ignoring all of the other information available. They ignored defense, they ignored doubles, they ignored OBP, they ignored pitchers and the value they have…they collectively saw the shiny things, got distracted, and further diminished the value of the awards they give out each year. The Most Valuable Player award is redefined to fit the storyline every year, but when it’s defined as "having lots of RBIs and good teammates," we’re well past the point of a defensible argument.

The problem isn't the results of any specific vote. The problem is that we have no expectations of anything better. We've simply conceded that the people charged with delivering these honors will make it up as they go along, picking the story they liked the best and inventing a rationaliztion to fit. So in some years, being an up-the-middle guy matters. In some years, having lots of guys on base in front of you matters. In some years, you win the award on style points. In some years, you win it on numbers. "Value" doesn’t matter, except in sentences like, "statistics don’t really capture the value of" Player X. The ballots attached to those lines quite often then list guys in order of their RBI counts.

That’s what this year was about, you know. It was about throwing away 25 years of education about how RBIs don't tell you anything about the value of players. RBIs are a proxy for power and the OBP of the guys in front of you, and they do not, they have never, reflected specific skill beyond those figures. They're an accounting tool. So Ryan Howard and Justin Morneau can raise a glass to Harry Chadwick, because only in a world in which RBIs are tracked would anyone have alighted on them as the most valuable anything. Albert Pujols was superior to Ryan Howard in every advanced metric and most traditional ones.

---

The voters elected Howard over Pujols because he had more RBIs and because he helped them fill more column inches. He's the Most Valuable Player, but in no way was he the most valuable player. The writers simply got it wrong.

Of course, the NL vote looks downright inspired compared to what happened in the AL. The electorate just decided that a guy with little or no defensive value and a .321/.375/.559 line was the most valuable player in the league. Justin Morneau wasn’t the most valuable Twin, or even the second-most-valuable Twin. He was the guy who hit for power behind lots of guys who got on base.

The storyline argument for Morneau is even more ridiculous than it is for Howard. He was a part of the Twins' turnaround, but so many things changed for the Twins after the first six weeks—Francisco Liriano, Jason Bartlett, Nick Punto, the defense, etc.—that crediting one man for that rush flies in the face of the available evidence. The entire team played better, and when you run the numbers, you find that Joe Mauer and Johan Santana contributed more to the Twins' success than Justin Morneau did, and that a whole bunch of guys around the league had more value to their teams. The fact that the BBRAA voters, who will be the first to deride performance analysts as fantasy geeks who don't really know the game, couldn't see past the RBIs to look at the complete players who were much more valuable is just too rich an irony for me when I'm trying to eat light heading into the holidays.

The tools that we use to measure performance, things like VORP and Equivalent Average and Runs Over Replacement Player and such, may not be for everyone. I would certainly never argue that they capture everything about baseball, and I don’t order my ballots that way as a matter of course. But certainly we can agree that if these tools tell us that a player is the 15th best in the league this year, and that player doesn’t have some kind of overwhelming markers like defense in his favor, and that player is behind mutiple teammates in the metrics…can’t we agree that perhaps that player is a ridiculous MVP choice?

Here's the way I see it. If your definition of "Most Valuable Player" takes longer than one breath to get out, it's too long. I say that the MVP is the player who adds the most value to his team. Most other definitions, ones that include words like "carried" or some date in midseason or small-sample statistics or cite the performance of the team, will require stopping to breathe. Once you hear that breath, the argument is lost. It's become too complex, and likely as not, it’ll be a different argument in 12 months anyway.

As far as me having a "bias against traditional HR and RBI guys" goes, that’s pretty silly, mostly because I couldn't tell you how many RBIs anyone has without looking it up. RBIs have no place in the evaluation of baseball players. If a guy has a lot of power, it'll show up in places like slugging average and isolated power and Value Over Replacement Player. The fact that I have to make this case in 2006 is an indictment of the last quarter-century of performance analysis. We're just not getting through to people.

"Value isn’t just statistics." Right, and it also isn't who gave you the most to write about in August and September. I will take a panel of the next 30 people I get e-mails from, spammers included, and they'd come up with the right answer more often than the BBRAA does. Mind you, this is just one year we're talking about. These people also looked at Bartolo Colon and Johan Santana last year and chose the guy who was a distant second for Cy Young. These are people who slot Derek Jeter sixth and can't find room on the ballot for Joe Mauer, and who don't seem to think that the best pitcher and best hitter in league are better than its seventh and eighth most valuable players.

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5722


I had to bold that one statement because that's how all stat guys feel sometimes.

[MaxV]

Braves are looking to sign ... Oh yea, they'll probrably just give Reitsma a 2 year 10 mil extention and think they fixed the bullpen problems.

God there Front Office and Owners are horrible.

I agree with you that their owners are horrible, but not their Front Office.

This year's FA market is SEVERELY overpriced, and the Braves are on the tight budget.

I think they are still looking for a trade. Salty might be gone this off-season.

[Finsfan79]

wolf to LAD and Baez to the O's (chris ray on the block now I bet for a price).

[MaxV]

wolf to LAD and Baez to the O's (chris ray on the block now I bet for a price).

Hopefully with Baez signing the O's will leave Bradford alone and let us sign him for a reasonable price.

[bearsfan_51]

Danyz Baez gets 3 years 19 million. I think it's up for debate whether the O's or the Cubs are the worst run franchies in baseball. The O's in particular have to keep overpaying for crummy players because nobody wants to go there and their farm system is bad.

[MaxV]

Danyz Baez gets 3 years 19 million. I think it's up for debate whether the O's or the Cubs are the worst run franchies in baseball. The O's in particular have to keep overpaying for crummy players because nobody wants to go there and their farm system is bad.

Well Cubs almost went to the WS a couple of years ago. O's haven't done anything in awhile.

Plus O's hired my favorite person in the world (NOT!!!!!!!!), Mr. Jim Duquette.

[MaxV]

BTW, here's the upcomming HOF class:

• Harold Baines
• Albert Belle
• Dante Bichette
• Bert Blyleven
• Bobby Bonilla
• Scott Brosius
• Jay Buhner
• Ken Caminiti
• Jose Canseco
• Dave Concepcion
• Eric Davis
• Andre Dawson
• Tony Fernandez
• Steve Garvey
• Rich Gossage
• Tony Gwynn
• Orel Hershiser
• Tommy John
• Wally Joyner
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Paul O'Neill
• Dave Parker
• Jim Rice
• Cal Ripken Jr.
• Bret Saberhagen
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Devon White
• Bobby Witt

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677322

There are some interesting names here.

Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn are a done deal. They are there.

What about guys like Hershiser, O'Neal and Belle?

[bearsfan_51]

Albert Belle will kill your ass:

http://static.flickr.com/19/101045268_29f46cdb3a_m.jpg

[Jughead10]

O'Neill and Brosius really shouldn't even be on the list. Mattingly should get in before either of those two.

[Windy]

give it to dawson

[Windy]

The Oakland A's are trying to sign Mike Piazza

[Philliez01]

Alright, the Philadelphia Phillies just signed Adam Eaton to a 3-year, $24 million contract today. Why would they go after a probable #3-#4 starter with that kind of dinero is beyond me. The rotation is probably set to look like:

1)-Myers
2)-Hamels
3)-Eaton
4)-Lieber
5)-Floyd, a new pitcher, Segovia perhaps.

The only thing I see that is different from Randy Wolf (the new Dodger by the way) is that he's a superb groundball hitter. In CBP that's probably a great quality to have. Still, he had a high ERA and I believe is injury prone. The worse part is that the Phillies usually have fan groups for all their pitchers.

So Eaton's would be probably, "Adam's Apples" :oops:

[Smokey Joe]

I have been hearing more and more rumors of a possible Freddy Garcia and Joe Crede for Chone Figgins and Ervin Santana deal. I personally think the Sox would be getting ripped off if all they got were Santana and Figgins.

[MaxV]

Alright, the Philadelphia Phillies just signed Adam Eaton to a 3-year, $24 million contract today. Why would they go after a probable #3-#4 starter with that kind of dinero is beyond me. The rotation is probably set to look like:

1)-Myers
2)-Hamels
3)-Eaton
4)-Lieber
5)-Floyd, a new pitcher, Segovia perhaps.

The only thing I see that is different from Randy Wolf (the new Dodger by the way) is that he's a superb groundball hitter. In CBP that's probably a great quality to have. Still, he had a high ERA and I believe is injury prone. The worse part is that the Phillies usually have fan groups for all their pitchers.

So Eaton's would be probably, "Adam's Apples" :oops:

I bet you guys will miss those wacky "Wolf Pack" guys, huh?

Eaton has ability, but he needs to be more consistant.

[Scotty D]

Alright, the Philadelphia Phillies just signed Adam Eaton to a 3-year, $24 million contract today. Why would they go after a probable #3-#4 starter with that kind of dinero is beyond me. The rotation is probably set to look like:

1)-Myers
2)-Hamels
3)-Eaton
4)-Lieber
5)-Floyd, a new pitcher, Segovia perhaps.

The only thing I see that is different from Randy Wolf (the new Dodger by the way) is that he's a superb groundball hitter. In CBP that's probably a great quality to have. Still, he had a high ERA and I believe is injury prone. The worse part is that the Phillies usually have fan groups for all their pitchers.

So Eaton's would be probably, "Adam's Apples" :oops:

I haven't seen the Eaton signing anywhere. Got a link?

[Philliez01]

Here Scotty:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677728

Anyway, Eaton does have good stuff but I'm not certain how well he could do with that money. Granted that should've been expected and I'm glad to have him but I was hoping to see them add to the bullpen. Oh well those Winter Meetings will be swirling with Burrell rumors.

[Scotty D]

I like the Eaton signing for the Phillies. If he didn't get hurt this past season he would have cost probably around 40 million instead of 24. Jeez I bet Texas wishes they could have Chris Young back. Never liked that trade.

[miamichamp_305]

BTW, here's the upcomming HOF class:

• Harold Baines
• Albert Belle
• Dante Bichette
• Bert Blyleven
• Bobby Bonilla
• Scott Brosius
• Jay Buhner
• Ken Caminiti
• Jose Canseco
• Dave Concepcion
• Eric Davis
• Andre Dawson
• Tony Fernandez
• Steve Garvey
• Rich Gossage
• Tony Gwynn
• Orel Hershiser
• Tommy John
• Wally Joyner
• Don Mattingly
• Mark McGwire
• Jack Morris
• Dale Murphy
• Paul O'Neill
• Dave Parker
• Jim Rice
• Cal Ripken Jr.
• Bret Saberhagen
• Lee Smith
• Alan Trammell
• Devon White
• Bobby Witt

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677322

There are some interesting names here.

Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn are a done deal. They are there.

What about guys like Hershiser, O'Neal and Belle?
Well.... what are everyone's thoughts on McGwire? I personally loved him when he was playing, the steroid thing scared me. I'm split, if he gets in I'll be happy, if he doesn't... o well.

[Philliez01]

I like the Eaton signing for the Phillies. If he didn't get hurt this past season he would have cost probably around 40 million instead of 24. Jeez I bet Texas wishes they could have Chris Young back. Never liked that trade.

But his inconsistency has always been a problem, btw wasn't he the one who sliced himself trying to open a present or something?

I also completely forgot about Jamie Moyer.

[P-L]

I don't think McGwire gets in on the first ballot, but he'll get in one of these days.

[Scotty D]

I like the Eaton signing for the Phillies. If he didn't get hurt this past season he would have cost probably around 40 million instead of 24. Jeez I bet Texas wishes they could have Chris Young back. Never liked that trade.

But his inconsistency has always been a problem, btw wasn't he the one who sliced himself trying to open a present or something?

I also completely forgot about Jamie Moyer.

I forgot about Moyer also. Thats a pretty solid rotation. Not spectacular but solid.

[P-L]

Buster Olney is reporting that Manny Ramirez could be dealt as early as Saturday. Don't hold your breath though. If I could only count how many times he was almost traded. But if he is traded, the Giants, Padres, and Dodgers look like the leaders. The Indians, Angels, and Orioles spoke with the Sox about Ramirez but none of them would give up enough prospects or take a big enough portion of his salary.

[P-L]

Another Red Sox note, things don't look good with Matsuzaka. Boras is asking for $13-$15 per year and the Red Sox are offering $8-$10 per year.

[bearsfan_51]

Indians finally sign someone. Unfortunately it's David Delluci. :lol:

Well Jason Michaels didn't work out so well last year so now we're grabbing another Phillips OF? Whatever I guess. It's 3 years 11 million so it's not like we broke the bank, but I think I'd be happier with Choo/Michaels. At least we'll have some veteran stability.

On to the bullpen.....

Hopefully this means we'll trade a piece for some bullpen help. A rumor floting around is Ryan Garko to the Angels for Scott Shields, then moving Casey Blake to first base.

I dunno....

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6211856

[Damix]

Barajas deal is looking like it is falling apart

[bigrick0016]

Indians finally sign someone. Unfortunately it's David Delluci. :lol:

Well Jason Michaels didn't work out so well last year so now we're grabbing another Phillips OF? Whatever I guess. It's 3 years 11 million so it's not like we broke the bank, but I think I'd be happier with Choo/Michaels. At least we'll have some veteran stability.

On to the bullpen.....

Hopefully this means we'll trade a piece for some bullpen help. A rumor floting around is Ryan Garko to the Angels for Scott Shields, then moving Casey Blake to first base.

I dunno....

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6211856

I like the Delucci signing.

The Good: The last two years he's put up 251/367/513 (in Texas) and 292/369/530 (In Philly). He's got a decvent eye and some pop. The position he's played most the last couple of years is left field and according to both the Davenport stats (RATE, FRAA, FRAR), and range stats, he's been around average. He's moderatly priced.

The Bad: He'll be almost 36 by the end of the deal (He'll turn 36 on Oct. 31 of '09). He can't hit lefties. The fact that he is left handed is bad for our lineup. However, the Jake is fairly kind to leftie pull hitters even though it's a pitcher's park.

Delucci can't hit lefties, but Jason Michaels is serviceable against them. This signing might mean that we have soured on Shin-Soo Choo.

I'd love the Shields trade to happen. He's an arbitration guy after this year, but I am a big fan. Shields is better than Joe Borowski.

[nobodyinparticular]

Rumblings of Piazza and the Athletics...

[bearsfan_51]

Indians finally sign someone. Unfortunately it's David Delluci. :lol:

Well Jason Michaels didn't work out so well last year so now we're grabbing another Phillips OF? Whatever I guess. It's 3 years 11 million so it's not like we broke the bank, but I think I'd be happier with Choo/Michaels. At least we'll have some veteran stability.

On to the bullpen.....

Hopefully this means we'll trade a piece for some bullpen help. A rumor floting around is Ryan Garko to the Angels for Scott Shields, then moving Casey Blake to first base.

I dunno....

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6211856

I like the Delucci signing.

The Good: The last two years he's put up 251/367/513 (in Texas) and 292/369/530 (In Philly). He's got a decvent eye and some pop. The position he's played most the last couple of years is left field and according to both the Davenport stats (RATE, FRAA, FRAR), and range stats, he's been around average. He's moderatly priced.

The Bad: He'll be almost 36 by the end of the deal (He'll turn 36 on Oct. 31 of '09). He can't hit lefties. The fact that he is left handed is bad for our lineup. However, the Jake is fairly kind to leftie pull hitters even though it's a pitcher's park.

Delucci can't hit lefties, but Jason Michaels is serviceable against them. This signing might mean that we have soured on Shin-Soo Choo.

I'd love the Shields trade to happen. He's an arbitration guy after this year, but I am a big fan. Shields is better than Joe Borowski.
Actually, if the Garko rumors or true this just means we're moving Choo to right (which is fine cause he's better defensively anyway) and Blake to first.

I like Garko but it might not be a bad move to trade him. He looks like a big power hitter but something makes me doubt the cieling growth of a 26 year old. I think what we see now is about what we'll get. Plus he sucks defensively, which is hard to do at first base.

And I'm not sure I would call the Jake a pitcher's park. Maybe in comparison to Arlington.

[eazyb81]

Buster Olney is reporting that Manny Ramirez could be dealt as early as Saturday. Don't hold your breath though. If I could only count how many times he was almost traded. But if he is traded, the Giants, Padres, and Dodgers look like the leaders. The Indians, Angels, and Orioles spoke with the Sox about Ramirez but none of them would give up enough prospects or take a big enough portion of his salary.

What could the Giants give up to get Manny? Their system is depleted, and they can't trade Lincecum until next summer.

Also, the Padres don't have much to offer either in terms of prospects, unless Peavy is the centerpiece of their deal.

[P-L]

Buster Olney is reporting that Manny Ramirez could be dealt as early as Saturday. Don't hold your breath though. If I could only count how many times he was almost traded. But if he is traded, the Giants, Padres, and Dodgers look like the leaders. The Indians, Angels, and Orioles spoke with the Sox about Ramirez but none of them would give up enough prospects or take a big enough portion of his salary.

What could the Giants give up to get Manny? Their system is depleted, and they can't trade Lincecum until next summer.

Also, the Padres don't have much to offer either in terms of prospects, unless Peavy is the centerpiece of their deal.

The article wasn't specific, it just said that out of the 5 teams with the most interest the Giants, Pads, and Dodgers were the most likely. The only thing it said would be that a trade with the Padres would include Linebrink, but obviously there would be a lot more. I have no idea about the Giants, their farm system is abysmal right now and they really don't have many good young players.

[TH3]

Wells to the Rangers will heat up very soon...

[slightlyaraiderfan]

Onley believes Manny will be going to the Dodgers..

[Windy]

Cubs offer 3 years 45 million to Jason Schmidt

[bigrick0016]

The Jake is a Pitcher's park BF. It's a moderate Pitcher's park, but any Park Factor puts it as such.




I wish I had the actual numbers, but I seem to have left my Baseball Prospectus Handbook at home. Don't quote me on the exact Park Factor but I think it's like 106 (100 is average).

[MaxV]

The Jake is a Pitcher's park BF. It's a moderate Pitcher's park, but any Park Factor puts it as such.




I wish I had the actual numbers, but I seem to have left my Baseball Prospectus Handbook at home. Don't quote me on the exact Park Factor but I think it's like 106 (100 is average).

Really????

I always thought it was a hitter-friendly.

I guess maybe I'm used to seeing the Indians having a very good offense and mediocre pitching.

[bigrick0016]

The Jake is a Pitcher's park BF. It's a moderate Pitcher's park, but any Park Factor puts it as such.




I wish I had the actual numbers, but I seem to have left my Baseball Prospectus Handbook at home. Don't quote me on the exact Park Factor but I think it's like 106 (100 is average).

Really????

I always thought it was a hitter-friendly.

I guess maybe I'm used to seeing the Indians having a very good offense and mediocre pitching.


Us always having a great offense always skewed it a little. An offense that at various times had Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Albert Belle, Matt Williams, Kenny Lofton, Carlos Baerga, Eddie Murray, David Justice, Roberto Alomar, Juan Gonzalez and David Justice will score anywhere.

[MaxV]

The Jake is a Pitcher's park BF. It's a moderate Pitcher's park, but any Park Factor puts it as such.




I wish I had the actual numbers, but I seem to have left my Baseball Prospectus Handbook at home. Don't quote me on the exact Park Factor but I think it's like 106 (100 is average).

Really????

I always thought it was a hitter-friendly.

I guess maybe I'm used to seeing the Indians having a very good offense and mediocre pitching.


Us always having a great offense always skewed it a little. An offense that at various times had Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Albert Belle, Matt Williams, Kenny Lofton, Carlos Baerga, Eddie Murray, David Justice, Roberto Alomar, Juan Gonzalez and David Justice will score anywhere.

You've listed David Justice twice. :D

And you are forgetting the current guys.

Current lineup is pretty good too.

[bigrick0016]

my listing skills have apparently faded with time.

[eazyb81]

Cubs offer 3 years 45 million to Jason Schmidt

In this market, I think he could get more than that if he held out longer.

[Jughead10]

Yanks win posting for Kei Igawa at 25 million. I don't know what to think. :? I have been saying for quite some time that the Yanks are desperate for a lefty. This was a desperation move since they have no lefties in their farm.

[MaxV]

Yanks win posting for Kei Igawa at 25 million. I don't know what to think. :? I have been saying for quite some time that the Yanks are desperate for a lefty. This was a desperation move since they have no lefties in their farm.

He might be a good addition.

[bearsfan_51]

Cards got a steal in Adam Kennedy. Probably the best signing financial wise of the offseason.

[Windy]

Cards got a steal in Adam Kennedy. Probably the best signing financial wise of the offseason.


They should just call the team Los Angeles Angels of St Louis

[Damix]

Sori's deal

Soriano gets an $8 million signing bonus, $9 million next year, $13 million in 2008, $16 million in 2009 and then $18 million per season in each of the final five years of the deal. Also, he gets a suite in Cubs road games and is guaranteed six premium tickets for each home game during spring training, regular season and the postseason -- and for the All-Star game if he is selected. He gets $250,000 for collecting most All Star votes, $350,000 if he is selected the World Series MVP, $250,000 for the league championship series MVP, $300,000 for the MVP award and $75,000 for a Gold Glove.

from rotoworld, he can make even more.






Also O's continue to rework the pen with Williamson and Bradford

[eazyb81]

Yanks win posting for Kei Igawa at 25 million. I don't know what to think. :? I have been saying for quite some time that the Yanks are desperate for a lefty. This was a desperation move since they have no lefties in their farm.

Ouch....this reeks of desperation by Cashman and company. Igawa profiles as a 3 or 4 starter, with a mid 80's fastball and a good curve....not exactly the type of guy that you throw this much money at.

Also, he's nowhere near the star in Japan that Dice-K is, so it's hard to make an argument that they will get that money back from additional Japanese revenue.

Why wouldn't they just save this money and throw it all at Schmidt or Zito?

[Jughead10]

Yanks win posting for Kei Igawa at 25 million. I don't know what to think. :? I have been saying for quite some time that the Yanks are desperate for a lefty. This was a desperation move since they have no lefties in their farm.

Ouch....this reeks of desperation by Cashman and company. Igawa profiles as a 3 or 4 starter, with a mid 80's fastball and a good curve....not exactly the type of guy that you throw this much money at.

Also, he's nowhere near the star in Japan that Dice-K is, so it's hard to make an argument that they will get that money back from additional Japanese revenue.

Why wouldn't they just save this money and throw it all at Schmidt or Zito?

Because Schmidt is an aging NL pitcher and Zito can't pitch in a big game for his life as well as pitch well against great teams. I'd actually rather take my chances with Igawa over those two. The Yanks really wanted Petitte back but after realizing that isn't likely they made this move. Also I'm not sure if the Yankees care about getting money back. They have a never ending pool of money and Matsui bring in plenty anyway.

[P-L]

The latest on Manny...

The Padres have sweetened their offer for Manny Ramirez, a source with direct knowledge of the talks told the Globe's Gordon Edes. San Diego is apparently offering a package of Major League players for Ramirez, and that package would likely include starting pitcher Jake Peavy or reliever Scott Linebrink. The Sox reportedly are also interested in left-handed hitting first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, according to Edes.

[Jughead10]

The latest on Manny...

The Padres have sweetened their offer for Manny Ramirez, a source with direct knowledge of the talks told the Globe's Gordon Edes. San Diego is apparently offering a package of Major League players for Ramirez, and that package would likely include starting pitcher Jake Peavy or reliever Scott Linebrink. The Sox reportedly are also interested in left-handed hitting first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, according to Edes.

P-L, what is your opinion on trading Manny? I'd like to hear your side of it before I give my opinion.

[Rob S]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.

[MaxV]

Well, if Peavy is involved then it may be a good deal for BoSox.

[VoteLynnSwan]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.


Jake Peavy+Scott Linebrink+Adrian Gonzalez for Manny seems like a pretty sweet deal to me...

[Jughead10]

Well, if Peavy is involved then it may be a good deal for BoSox.

I don't think so. Peavy is good, but he's not as great as some make him out to be and he will get a bit worse just by switching the AL.

When you get rid of Manny you are also losing a lot of David Ortiz. David Ortiz will NEVER see a pitch to hit without Manny batting behind him. Everyone loves Papi, but Manny is the far better player.

[slightlyaraiderfan]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.


Jake Peavy+Scott Linebrink+Adrian Gonzalez for Manny seems like a pretty sweet deal to me...
The Padres would be stupid to give all 3 for Manny. I'm guessing its going to be one of those then a package of prospects, or maybe 2 of those and prospects...but I just cant see giving up all 3.

[VoteLynnSwan]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.


Jake Peavy+Scott Linebrink+Adrian Gonzalez for Manny seems like a pretty sweet deal to me...
The Padres would be stupid to give all 3 for Manny. I'm guessing its going to be one of those then a package of prospects, or maybe 2 of those and prospects...but I just cant see giving up all 3.

i agree... but i'd do it if i was Boston.

[DChess]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.


Jake Peavy+Scott Linebrink+Adrian Gonzalez for Manny seems like a pretty sweet deal to me...
The Padres would be stupid to give all 3 for Manny. I'm guessing its going to be one of those then a package of prospects, or maybe 2 of those and prospects...but I just cant see giving up all 3.

i agree... but i'd do it if i was Boston.

jake peavy is a great pitcher, has a couple 10 digit stikeout games per year, and when he's on he's on. i would love to get him and some prospects for manny, getting rid of that contract and getting a stud, i would defitnaly do that

[P-L]

The latest on Manny...

The Padres have sweetened their offer for Manny Ramirez, a source with direct knowledge of the talks told the Globe's Gordon Edes. San Diego is apparently offering a package of Major League players for Ramirez, and that package would likely include starting pitcher Jake Peavy or reliever Scott Linebrink. The Sox reportedly are also interested in left-handed hitting first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, according to Edes.

P-L, what is your opinion on trading Manny? I'd like to hear your side of it before I give my opinion.

It depends on what the Sox got back. If the Padres gave us say Jake Peavy and Adrian Gonzalez, even if we had to toss in a little extra, I'd definately do it. If it's just Manny for a bunch of prospects, it'd be a huge mistake. First of all it's going to have an effect on David Ortiz, although not nearly enough as some think. (People forget that Ortiz was intentionally walked 23 times, 22 of which, Manny was hitting right behind him). Losing Manny's bat will hurt a lot. He's a pretty safe bet for .300/.400/.590 and 30-40 HR. The man they are considering replacing him with, J.D. Drew, won't put up anywhere near those numbers. Even if they add Lugo too, the Drew/Lugo combo probably won't perform better than Ramirez/Gonzalez. I really don't like it, but it could turn out not so bad.

[P-L]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.


Jake Peavy+Scott Linebrink+Adrian Gonzalez for Manny seems like a pretty sweet deal to me...

They won't get all three. Two at the most. A rumor I just heard was that Boston wants Peavy and Gonzalez but San Diego is trying to offer Linebrink, Gonzalez, and a prospect.

[Jughead10]

The Padres are desperate for that power hitting corner outfielder. They really need someone who can drive the ball out of that spacious park. Linebrink they have been trying to get rid of for a while now.

[MaxV]

The Padres are desperate for that power hitting corner outfielder. They really need someone who can drive the ball out of that spacious park. Linebrink they have been trying to get rid of for a while now.

Well I don't think they've been trying to get rid of him as much as they've tried to use him as trade bait.

Also, if you think that Peavy (and someone else) isn't a good return for Manny, then there is no way a deal can be done.

[eazyb81]

Yanks win posting for Kei Igawa at 25 million. I don't know what to think. :? I have been saying for quite some time that the Yanks are desperate for a lefty. This was a desperation move since they have no lefties in their farm.

Ouch....this reeks of desperation by Cashman and company. Igawa profiles as a 3 or 4 starter, with a mid 80's fastball and a good curve....not exactly the type of guy that you throw this much money at.

Also, he's nowhere near the star in Japan that Dice-K is, so it's hard to make an argument that they will get that money back from additional Japanese revenue.

Why wouldn't they just save this money and throw it all at Schmidt or Zito?

Because Schmidt is an aging NL pitcher and Zito can't pitch in a big game for his life as well as pitch well against great teams. I'd actually rather take my chances with Igawa over those two. The Yanks really wanted Petitte back but after realizing that isn't likely they made this move. Also I'm not sure if the Yankees care about getting money back. They have a never ending pool of money and Matsui bring in plenty anyway.

Schmidt is still a top 10-15 pitcher in the game, and Zito is a top 20 guy that is still young.

Igawa has blah stuff, projecting out to a 3 starter at best, LOOGY at worst.

[MaxV]

Eazyb, the Royals top 10 has been posted by BA. Do you agree with it?

[Damix]

Eazyb, the Royals top 10 has been posted by BA. Do you agree with it?

Personally I think BA is a bunch of idiots

[eazyb81]

Eazyb, the Royals top 10 has been posted by BA. Do you agree with it?

Personally I think BA is a bunch of idiots

Case in point: They ranked Erik Cordier as the 6th best prospect in the Royals org, based in part on the fact that he would not need surgery on his sore pitching elbow.

Of course, they must have been napping when Erik Cordier went in for a 2nd evaluation about a month ago and ended up having TJ surgery, effectively ending his 07 season.

Just dumb oversights like this prove to me that BA is starting to slip in quality.

[eazyb81]

Eazyb, the Royals top 10 has been posted by BA. Do you agree with it?

It's okay on the whole, but I can't fathom how they put Hochevar ahead of Butler at this point (and I am a big Hochevar fan). I'm sure they are basing that on the DH rumors, but just because they keep saying it doesn't make it true.

Butler made a great improvement in the field this year, and no one in the organization or in the local media considers him a future DH anymore. He will never be a Gold Glove fielder, but he will be adequate, and his bat will surely make up for his slightly below average fielding.

Personally, I think Jeff Bianchi should have been on the list, but I can understand why they left him off. However, if the kid can stay healthy next season, he will make a Reid Brignac-type jump up prospect lists....he's that good.

[P-L]

I don't understand Hochevar over Butler either.

[P-L]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.

[Smokey Joe]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.
You might as well make up your own rumors. They'd be more believable then the rumors Olney makes up.

[Windy]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.
You might as well make up your own rumors. They'd be more believable then the rumors Olney makes up.

Buster got that info from the Boston Herald.

Also the dodgers are not interested in Zito anymore

[MaxV]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.
You might as well make up your own rumors. They'd be more believable then the rumors Olney makes up.

Buster got that info from the Boston Herald.

Also the dodgers are not interested in Zito anymore

Are the Mets front-runners for Zito?

I hope so, it looks like Glavine might be going to Atlanta.

[Jughead10]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.
You might as well make up your own rumors. They'd be more believable then the rumors Olney makes up.

Buster got that info from the Boston Herald.

Also the dodgers are not interested in Zito anymore

Are the Mets front-runners for Zito?

I hope so, it looks like Glavine might be going to Atlanta.

I hope you guys get Zito. That way the Yanks may still get to cream him twice a year. My opinion on him is probably skewed that he is worse than he is because he generally has always done very poorly against the Yanks.

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.

Who is the trade rumored to involve?

[Jughead10]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.

Who is the trade rumored to involve?

I'm assuming Kemp would be involved.

[P-L]

Kemp, Broxton, and Loney are names that have been thrown around, nothing for sure yet.

[thetedginnshow]

If the Mariners don't make a move for Schmidt, I expect them to go hard after Zito. Or they may not and just concede defeat like most other years.

[Windy]

Buster Olney reports that the Dodgers are the frontrunners for Manny Ramirez and the Red Sox might get "what they want" instead of settling for less.
You might as well make up your own rumors. They'd be more believable then the rumors Olney makes up.

Buster got that info from the Boston Herald.

Also the dodgers are not interested in Zito anymore

Are the Mets front-runners for Zito?

I hope so, it looks like Glavine might be going to Atlanta.

I hope you guys get Zito. That way the Yanks may still get to cream him twice a year. My opinion on him is probably skewed that he is worse than he is because he generally has always done very poorly against the Yanks.

A lot of teams either cannot afford or just don't want to deal with a 6 year 100 million contract for a pitcher. Right now it's between the Cubs (if they don't sign schimdt) and Mets. A team like Seattle could come out but who knows. The favorite has to be the Mets right now

[eazyb81]

I still think the Padres are one of the top contenders for Zito, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up there.

[Smokey Joe]

Does anyone have thoughts on the possible Crede and Garcia for Santana and Figgins trade that might o down between the sox and angels?

[P-L]

It looks as if the Red Sox will sign J.D. Drew to a 4 year, $56 million deal shortly after the Winter Meetings begin. There will be a club option for a 5th year included.

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/redSox/?p=758

[DChess]

i wish i could talk in this but the indians never sign anybody so its not interesting

[Smokey Joe]

i wish i could talk in this but the indians never sign anybody so its not interesting
You guys got Double D!!!!!!! :D

[bigrick0016]

I'm going to say that Delucci's deal, in which we pay him less than 4 mil a year annually, will go down as one of the best this offseason

[P-L]

According to Steve Phillips, the Red Sox have a slight interest in Barry Bonds as their LF. Ugh... I don't know what to think. Nothing will probably come out of this, as he'll probably stay out west, but I cringe at the though of Barry in the field. At least Ortiz wouldn't be walked every other PA.

[B-Dawk]

According to Steve Phillips, the Red Sox have a slight interest in Barry Bonds as their LF. Ugh... I don't know what to think. Nothing will probably come out of this, as he'll probably stay out west, but I cringe at the though of Barry in the field. At least Ortiz wouldn't be walked every other PA.

Well i dont think it would be that bad, barry has better defensive instinct than manny, and with the monster he would not be asked to run down ball all that much, but yes he would still be a reliability, but not too much worse than manny is/was.

[P-L]

According to Steve Phillips, the Red Sox have a slight interest in Barry Bonds as their LF. Ugh... I don't know what to think. Nothing will probably come out of this, as he'll probably stay out west, but I cringe at the though of Barry in the field. At least Ortiz wouldn't be walked every other PA.

Well i dont think it would be that bad, barry has better defensive instinct than manny, and with the monster he would not be asked to run down ball all that much, but yes he would still be a reliability, but not too much worse than manny is/was.

Manny played LF in Fenway very well. He had it almost perfected. Manny's defensive liability comes in the other 29 MLB ballparks. I have serious doubts that Barry could play LF in Fenway as well and Manny did.

[Windy]

i cant wait till the meetings then finally some big deals will happen

[B-Dawk]

According to Steve Phillips, the Red Sox have a slight interest in Barry Bonds as their LF. Ugh... I don't know what to think. Nothing will probably come out of this, as he'll probably stay out west, but I cringe at the though of Barry in the field. At least Ortiz wouldn't be walked every other PA.

Well i dont think it would be that bad, barry has better defensive instinct than manny, and with the monster he would not be asked to run down ball all that much, but yes he would still be a reliability, but not too much worse than manny is/was.

Manny played LF in Fenway very well. He had it almost perfected. Manny's defensive liability comes in the other 29 MLB ballparks. I have serious doubts that Barry could play LF in Fenway as well and Manny did.

But with Bonds you are not gonna get silly mental errors, somewhere there is still a shell of a former gold glove winner in that body. I think he could make the adjustment to playing in fenway with time.

[Jay]

No chance in hell Barry Bonds comes to Boston, especially after all the BS he has spewed over the years about the city of Boston and "all its racism." He would get EATEN ALIVE in this city. The Boston media makes San Francisco look like a high school news paper. I don't see ANY chance of it happening, even if he's just trying to collect a paycheck.

[Jay]

I think Manny is too dominant an offensive force to trade unless you get an established stud SP at the MLB level and good prospects. Pretty much, you would have to overwhelm me to get Manny.


Jake Peavy+Scott Linebrink+Adrian Gonzalez for Manny seems like a pretty sweet deal to me...
The Padres would be stupid to give all 3 for Manny. I'm guessing its going to be one of those then a package of prospects, or maybe 2 of those and prospects...but I just cant see giving up all 3.

i agree... but i'd do it if i was Boston.

jake peavy is a great pitcher, has a couple 10 digit stikeout games per year, and when he's on he's on. i would love to get him and some prospects for manny, getting rid of that contract and getting a stud, i would defitnaly do that

When guys like Alfonso Soriano are getting 19 per and JD Drew getting 14, you're telling me Manny for 2 years at 20 per is a bad deal that you want to get out of? :lol:

[MaxV]

No chance in hell Barry Bonds comes to Boston, especially after all the BS he has spewed over the years about the city of Boston and "all its racism." He would get EATEN ALIVE in this city. The Boston media makes San Francisco look like a high school news paper. I don't see ANY chance of it happening, even if he's just trying to collect a paycheck.

Winning cures all. Delgado didn't want to come to NY a couple of years ago, and when he arrived he was critisized because of it. But he played well and soon everything was forgotten.

Still, I would be VERY pissed off if Mets were to sign him. And I'm sure most non-Giants fans feel the same way.

[MaxV]

Pujols is upset about not winning the MVP:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2680495

"I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP," Pujols said in Spanish at a news conference organized by the Dominican Republic's sports ministry.

I know that a lot of you will agree with him, but keep this in mind:

W L
Phillies 85 77
Cards 83 78

And I know that Cards won the WS, but would they even be in the playoffs had they been playing in the NL East?

[eazyb81]

I don't agree with him at all, the award should go to the best player, not the best player from a playoff team.

If Hafner stayed healthy, I thought he should get legit consideration for the AL MVP.

[P-L]

I think voters should go by the definition of the award: The Most Valuable Player. The award wasn't designed for the best player on a winning team, but that's what it has turned into. If the voters thought Howard was more valuable to the Phillies than Pujols was to the Cardinals I would have no problem with it, even though they'd be wrong. You have your separate awards for best hitter (Silver Slugger) and best defenseman (Gold Glove) so I think the award should go by value to your team. I don't think the award should have to come from a playoff team, but it should come to a winning team. I don't like when they give the award to someone on a losing team. Except 2003 was fine, because Alex Rodriguex deserved the award over Jorge Posada. Pujols has been popping off at the mouth recently. This isn't the second time since the NLCS (remember the Glavine incident) that he's saod something. And while both times he's had somewhat of a legit point, there are things you just keep to yourself.

[MaxV]

I think voters should go by the definition of the award: The Most Valuable Player. The award wasn't designed for the best player on a winning team, but that's what it has turned into. If the voters thought Howard was more valuable to the Phillies than Pujols was to the Cardinals I would have no problem with it, even though they'd be wrong. You have your separate awards for best hitter (Silver Slugger) and best defenseman (Gold Glove) so I think the award should go by value to your team. I don't think the award should have to come from a playoff team, but it should come to a winning team. I don't like when they give the award to someone on a losing team. Except 2003 was fine, because Alex Rodriguex deserved the award over Jorge Posada. Pujols has been popping off at the mouth recently. This isn't the second time since the NLCS (remember the Glavine incident) that he's saod something. And while both times he's had somewhat of a legit point, there are things you just keep to yourself.

Phillies had a winning record....barely. Cards record was acctually worse.

Phillies were in the hunt for the WC up until the end, and if it wasn't for Howard they would be looking up to the Nats in the standings.

[P-L]

But my point is that the Cards squeeked into the playoffs with Pujols. They beat out the Astros by 1.5 games. I think if you took Pujols off the Cards, you're looking at the difference between the playoffs and 3rd, possibly 4th in the NL Central. The Phillies and Ryan Howard you're looking at a difference 2nd in the NL East and 3rd or 4th in the NL East. I don't mean to make it sound like I just thought he deserved based on the fact that the Cards made the playoffs, but they barely made it into the playoffs and he was the biggest reason why they didn't collapse and choke their lead away.

[MaxV]

And I agree with you that Pujols has been a little too snobbish lately.

[bearsfan_51]

I don't agree with him at all, the award should go to the best player, not the best player from a playoff team.

If Hafner stayed healthy, I thought he should get legit consideration for the AL MVP.
Travis Hafner flosses with shards of broken glass.

True story.

[Brodeur]

I think voters should go by the definition of the award: The Most Valuable Player. The award wasn't designed for the best player on a winning team, but that's what it has turned into. If the voters thought Howard was more valuable to the Phillies than Pujols was to the Cardinals I would have no problem with it, even though they'd be wrong. You have your separate awards for best hitter (Silver Slugger) and best defenseman (Gold Glove) so I think the award should go by value to your team. I don't think the award should have to come from a playoff team, but it should come to a winning team. I don't like when they give the award to someone on a losing team. Except 2003 was fine, because Alex Rodriguex deserved the award over Jorge Posada. Pujols has been popping off at the mouth recently. This isn't the second time since the NLCS (remember the Glavine incident) that he's saod something. And while both times he's had somewhat of a legit point, there are things you just keep to yourself.

Phillies had a winning record....barely. Cards record was acctually worse.

Phillies were in the hunt for the WC up until the end, and if it wasn't for Howard they would be looking up to the Nats in the standings.

Howard had Utley who was arguably just as important to the Phillies as he was.

[roughrider30]

I don't agree with him at all, the award should go to the best player, not the best player from a playoff team.

If Hafner stayed healthy, I thought he should get legit consideration for the AL MVP.
Travis Hafner flosses with shards of broken glass.

True story.

Hes a North Dakota boy. Thats how we all roll around here. :lol:

[Jay]

Why should Howard be penalized because he played in a better division? Let's face it, the Central has been between the Cards and the Stros in recent memory, and the Stros just weren't that good this year.

The Phillies played in the best division in the NL, and possibly the second best division in baseball last year, where every single team had a legit shot at contention/Wild Card at some point.

Howard put that team on his back down the stretch. He was on fire for a while. That is what won him the award. Pujols had his stretch at the begining of the year when everyone thought he would chase Bonds* record, then he got hurt, then he was just steady and consistant the rest of the way. Not a knock on him, but he is being penalized in a way because that is what is expected of him.

I don't have a huge problem with Howard winning, but I do agree that Pujols has some beef...

[bigrick0016]

To me Valuable in MVP means best. It doesn't mean who has best teammates. So I do not think a player should have to be from a good team. Therefore you'd be saying what those guys on not great teams didn't count. This isn't basketball, one guy can't make a team better. Travis Hafner can't make Jason Michaels not suck, he just does. Why does a player get punished for something they have no control over? They don't pick the team, they just play.


Just to clear things up, I'm arguing for Howard, Pujols shoul've won the MVP. I'm arguing against Albert's stand.

[P-L]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Au3LMDHuuZIVMoKDJ8LSIM05nYcB?slug=ap-redsox-okajima&prov=ap&type=lgns

Red Sox agree to a two year, $2.5 million deal with japanese RP Hideki Okajima. He isn't supposed to be anything real special, but for only $2.5 million over two years, he's playing practically for free considering the market.

[Smokey Joe]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Au3LMDHuuZIVMoKDJ8LSIM05nYcB?slug=ap-redsox-okajima&prov=ap&type=lgns

Red Sox agree to a two year, $2.5 million deal with japanese RP Hideki Okajima. He isn't supposed to be anything real special, but for only $2.5 million over two years, he's playing practically for free considering the market.
Good deal, especially considering how badly the Red Sox need a lefty in the pen.

[yodapoop]

Pujols is upset about not winning the MVP:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2680495

"I see it this way: Someone who doesn't take his team to the playoffs doesn't deserve to win the MVP," Pujols said in Spanish at a news conference organized by the Dominican Republic's sports ministry.

I know that a lot of you will agree with him, but keep this in mind:

W L
Phillies 85 77
Cards 83 78

And I know that Cards won the WS, but would they even be in the playoffs had they been playing in the NL East?

I do disagree what with he said, but people are making to big of a deal about this, he gave his opinion. He never dissed Ryan Howard and he never said I am sour about not winning he was giving his opinion, I am sure if the Cards woulda missed the playoffs he would of said the same thing. He was giving his opinion. But I do agree with Howard with the MVP. If there is any1 who should be whining about getting snubbed it should be Carpenter, not Pujols.

[Windy]

Glavine and Mets Agree

[MaxV]

Glavine and Mets Agree

Link?

[Eaglez.Fan]

To me Valuable in MVP means best. It doesn't mean who has best teammates. So I do not think a player should have to be from a good team. Therefore you'd be saying what those guys on not great teams didn't count. This isn't basketball, one guy can't make a team better. Travis Hafner can't make Jason Michaels not suck, he just does. Why does a player get punished for something they have no control over? They don't pick the team, they just play.


Just to clear things up, I'm arguing for Howard, Pujols shoul've won the MVP. I'm arguing against Albert's stand.

If MVP meant who is the best player Pujols and A-Rod would win every year, but it doesn't it means Most Valuable Player. So Most Valuable to there team, which player if u take them away drops the farthest. I'd still say Howard. But u just shudn't say MVP means the best player

[Windy]

Glavine and Mets Agree

Link?

They had breaking news on ESPNNews but for some reason it's not on the website. One year deal

[MaxV]

Glavine and Mets Agree

Link?

They had breaking news on ESPNNews but for some reason it's not on the website. One year deal

Yeah, I'm reading it on the Mets boards.

I'm glad it's not a multi-year deal, but according to reports it's a 11 mill deal.

That's a bit steep, but not surprising when looking at some other contracts that have been handed out.

[bigrick0016]

To me Valuable in MVP means best. It doesn't mean who has best teammates. So I do not think a player should have to be from a good team. Therefore you'd be saying what those guys on not great teams didn't count. This isn't basketball, one guy can't make a team better. Travis Hafner can't make Jason Michaels not suck, he just does. Why does a player get punished for something they have no control over? They don't pick the team, they just play.


Just to clear things up, I'm arguing for Howard, Pujols shoul've won the MVP. I'm arguing against Albert's stand.

If MVP meant who is the best player Pujols and A-Rod would win every year, but it doesn't it means Most Valuable Player. So Most Valuable to there team, which player if u take them away drops the farthest. I'd still say Howard. But u just shudn't say MVP means the best player

How can you add more while not being as good? How can Howard be more valuable in terms of wins and losses when he has Chase Utley on his team who is better than any other Cardinal besides Albert(The only argument is Carpenter)? How can Pujols be not as valuable as Howard when Pujols is the better hitter, fielder and baserunne? Answer those please?


The fact is the BBWAA votes for the MVP, they're newspaper writers. They voted for Howard because his teams late season run made for a better story than Pujols teams' early run. (remember this came before the playoffs)

[Brodeur]

How is it that Pierre gets 5/45 and Matthews gets 5/50 but Podsednik gets one year for 2.9 million?

[dcarey20]

wooohhhoooo the orioles signed chad bradford and scott williamson :lol:

[Smokey Joe]

How is it that Pierre gets 5/45 and Matthews gets 5/50 but Podsednik gets one year for 2.9 million?
Because Podsednik sucks horrible *bleep*

[roughrider30]

Glavine and Mets Agree

Link?

They had breaking news on ESPNNews but for some reason it's not on the website. One year deal

Yeah, I'm reading it on the Mets boards.

I'm glad it's not a multi-year deal, but according to reports it's a 11 mill deal.

That's a bit steep, but not surprising when looking at some other contracts that have been handed out.

im glad they finally got him. i wanted him to finish his career with the Mets

and you cant go wrong with adding a little depth to the rotation

[Brodeur]

How is it that Pierre gets 5/45 and Matthews gets 5/50 but Podsednik gets one year for 2.9 million?
Because Podsednik sucks horrible *bleep*

Had pretty much the same year that Pierre did last year.

[DHVF]

How is it that Pierre gets 5/45 and Matthews gets 5/50 but Podsednik gets one year for 2.9 million?That is absolutely insane IMO. I mean, how in the hell is Pierre worth that much more?

[bearsfan_51]

Indians are getting a little more active.

-Buck Showalter was added as a consultant to the GM and Manager. I like Buck and like this move. He's got a good baseball mind.

-Signed Roberto Hernandez and Aaron Fultz. Hernandez is still playing well at 42 and while Fultz isn't anything to go nuts about, he's good against lefties, something we didn't have.

I still expect us to either sign Borowski or to make a trade for a closer. Other than that we've addressed all of our other needs (2nd base, corner outfield, middle reflief) rather well this offseason without spending hardly any money at all.

[The Unseen]

Indians are getting a little more active.

-Buck Showalter was added as a consultant to the GM and Manager. I like Buck and like this move. He's got a good baseball mind.

-Signed Roberto Hernandez and Aaron Fultz. Hernandez is still playing well at 42 and while Fultz isn't anything to go nuts about, he's good against lefties, something we didn't have.

I still expect us to either sign Borowski or to make a trade for a closer. Other than that we've addressed all of our other needs (2nd base, corner outfield, middle reflief) rather well this offseason without spending hardly any money at all.

I liked Borowski on the whole last season, but he pretty much collapsed down the stretch (along with the rest of the team). Because of that I don't think he's the Marlins' plans as prominently had he not had such a decrease in his play at season's close.

[bearsfan_51]

Indians are getting a little more active.

-Buck Showalter was added as a consultant to the GM and Manager. I like Buck and like this move. He's got a good baseball mind.

-Signed Roberto Hernandez and Aaron Fultz. Hernandez is still playing well at 42 and while Fultz isn't anything to go nuts about, he's good against lefties, something we didn't have.

I still expect us to either sign Borowski or to make a trade for a closer. Other than that we've addressed all of our other needs (2nd base, corner outfield, middle reflief) rather well this offseason without spending hardly any money at all.

I liked Borowski on the whole last season, but he pretty much collapsed down the stretch (along with the rest of the team). Because of that I don't think he's the Marlins' plans as prominently had he not had such a decrease in his play at season's close.
It's basically down to the Indians or the Phillies at this point from what I've read. Philly had a mutli-year contract on the table for Joe but didn't like the results of his physical and pulled it. Both teams are offering 1 year contracts (also what the Indians gave to Hernandez and Fultz) so it's really just a matter of where he thinks he can be most successful to boost his stock as a FA next year.

[sweetness34]

Cubbies offered Ted Lilly either today or yesterday. Man, if they could get Schmidt and Lilly to boost their rotation, that'd be awesome.