New England Patriots Discussion

[ElectricEye]

Yeah, I'm not sold on the idea of some sort of super sub-package player either. Jordan doesn't have any issue being an every down five technique either, so I'm still on board with him.

[descendency]

If they draft a DL, it should be one that is an every down guy at DE...a straight-up 5-tech.

A 5 tech is not an every down player. 5 tech is just DE in one of the base defenses.

When someone is an every down player, they can play in subpackages as much as the base defense.

The knock on Heyward is when the Patriots go into a sub package, he'll be on the bench. (well, that and his motor)

[Nalej]

I believe CJ can be a base 34 DE and an UT on the sub packages.

[Razor]

I believe CJ can be a base 34 DE and an UT on the sub packages.

I don't, not at 287 lbs. I'm completely off Jordan, I'm about to kill puppies every time I see him mocked to the Pats. To me he's a better version of Justin Tuck: LDE and interior pass rusher in sub packages. I'm just happy that he isn't going to make it past St. Louis. Right? Right? Please let me be right...

[TNPatsFan]

Well at least I'm not alone in my feelings on Cam Jordan. I've been saying for a while now.. Cam Jordan is Jarvis Green. A small DE who will be better off as a third down DL if he gets drafted by a 3-4 team, and who will get run over if he is asked to play DE in a base 3-4 defense. He's a good player, but not what I want to spend a top 20 pick on.

[J255979-11nine]

Well at least I'm not alone in my feelings on Cam Jordan. I've been saying for a while now.. Cam Jordan is Jarvis Green. A small DE who will be better off as a third down DL if he gets drafted by a 3-4 team, and who will get run over if he is asked to play DE in a base 3-4 defense. He's a good player, but not what I want to spend a top 20 pick on.

There is no hope in hell that this statement is true. Jarvis Green wishes he could be half the player Jordan will be.

[FlyingElvis]

He's not Seymour big, but he's not Jarvis Green small, either. And he's far more athletic and fluid than Jarvis ever even thought about being. lol

Scott's notes on him in the senior bowl weigh in thread:

• Cameron Jordan California 6'4⅛ 287 34½ 11¼
Notes: Broad shoulders with long arms. Just BIG.

[TNPatsFan]

Jarvis used to play between 285 and 290, and I'm pretty sure he was at least 6'3. In other words, the same size as Jordan.

[FlyingElvis]

I get what you're saying, but think it's a huge dig at Jordan to compare him to Jarvis. And I love me some Jarvis.

If you want to make it a fair comparison you should at least compare combine stats. Green played at 290, but he sure didn't come into the league at 290. Jarvis was an inch shorter and 15 pounds lighter. He also was timed slower in every category didn't jump as high or far.

Jordan looks to have better all around skills coming out, too. Personally, I'm going to be very happy with Heyward instead. I just think it's a bit much to say Jordan is Jarvis Green.

[TNPatsFan]

To clarify, I'm not saying Jordan wouldn't be a better player than Jarvis. But rather I'm saying he's the same type of player.

And yes I will admit I am in a very miniscule minority on this whole DraftCountdown forum in that I don't care nearly as much about measurables and combine performances as I do what a player does playing football. And Jordan was a good, but not great, college football player. I'm not saying he's no good, but I just don't see him as a top 15 pick. Late first or early second is where I'd feel comfortable taking him, and I'd still take Heyward, Clayborn, and Watt over him if they were all on the board and I was determined to take a DL... and quite frankly I might even rather have Jarvis Jenkins over Jordan. I could probably go either way on that one.

[FlyingElvis]

Fair enough. I think Heyward is the better option for us. It's just tough to ignore the upside you get with a more athletic guy like Jordan.

[Razor]

To clarify, I'm not saying Jordan wouldn't be a better player than Jarvis. But rather I'm saying he's the same type of player.

And yes I will admit I am in a very miniscule minority on this whole DraftCountdown forum in that I don't care nearly as much about measurables and combine performances as I do what a player does playing football. And Jordan was a good, but not great, college football player. I'm not saying he's no good, but I just don't see him as a top 15 pick. Late first or early second is where I'd feel comfortable taking him, and I'd still take Heyward, Clayborn, and Watt over him if they were all on the board and I was determined to take a DL... and quite frankly I might even rather have Jarvis Jenkins over Jordan. I could probably go either way on that one.

Quoted for thruth.

I'm kinda "meh" on Heyward. He looks like a pretty safe pick, but he has little or no upside. I am, however, very high on Wilkerson, Watt and Jenkins. All have huge upside and a skill set similar to what BB would look for. Jenkins might not have ideal strength, but that will change in a NFL strength and conditioning program.

[ElectricEye]

Can't break football down by sheer triangle numbers alone. Jordan has a broad frame and will continue to get bigger. He's close to 290 pounds right now and will likely end up around 305 if he's drafted into a 3-4.

Hell, I don't even really care about the measurables on Jordan. They're just above average as far as what kind of player he is. It's what he shows on tape consistently that's the best part about him. Far and away the best defensive linemen in the Pac 10 over the past few years and I've been pretty big on him even before the hype train started moving. There's really not much he can do to change your stance either. Contrary to what you claim about seemingly every single player, he shows up in the game tape and has dominated the post season process. Scott and others had him lauded as a top ten type pick even before the Senior Bowl and gets paid to do that stuff. Does that make him an infallible prospect? No. But Justin Tuck and Jarvis Green aren't good names to bring up just because he weighs the same as those guys. Richard Seymour, was a rare prototypical 3-4 DE and we would be best to just get over him because they don't make them like that. With the rise of the 3-4 and the increasing reliance on the pass in the NFL, teams are demanding superior athletes at the position these days anyway even if that means sacrificing a bit of bulk.

[Nalej]

I would still take C.Heyward and JJ Watt over CJ but I still think CJ could be a 4 down player for us

[FlyingElvis]

To clarify my comments on combine numbers & weights:

I only listed them to demonstrate that Jarvis Green at 290 was an unfair comparison since he wasn't that big coming out. He had to bulk up, and Jordan can do the same - jumping to the 300 mark easily. All while being undeniably better on athletically and taller, too.

[ElectricEye]

Hell, with Jordan's frame, he might be able to get to 310. He's very broad, long, and cut right now.

[descendency]

Yeah, Jordan, Watt, and Heyward are all 3 players that could have prototypical builds for a 5-technique.

I wouldn't question that. You could question lots of things, but a 290 pound DE in college under an NFL workout program can certainly gain 10 pounds.

[Nalej]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4693974/randy-moss-still-talking-pats

Not to put words in his mouth and not mich of a surprise
Moss wants back in NE

[Matthew Jones]

Quoted for thruth.

I'm kinda "meh" on Heyward. He looks like a pretty safe pick, but he has little or no upside. I am, however, very high on Wilkerson, Watt and Jenkins. All have huge upside and a skill set similar to what BB would look for. Jenkins might not have ideal strength, but that will change in a NFL strength and conditioning program.

Heyward has upside - if he wasn't so inconsistent this year and didn't hurt his arm, he would have been one of the top five or so picks in the draft. Going into this season he and Clayborn were considered potentially the two best prospects in the entire draft.

[Razor]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4693974/randy-moss-still-talking-pats

Not to put words in his mouth and not mich of a surprise
Moss wants back in NE

http://viveksurti.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/homer_woohoo.jpg

YEEEESSSSSSSssssss...!!! Woohoo! Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes. Please make it happen.... Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please! Come back, Randy!

[ElectricEye]

Heard about that; not sure about bringing him back. I would have brought him in before the Titans did last year if we could have...but we're sort of in a good position to move on right now. I think he can still play for sure if he wants to(pretty well too)...but mixed feelings.

[FlyingElvis]

He'd provide a buffer for Taylor Price's development, but I just don't feel like he can be trusted to play. An incentive based contract that made him a cheap cut if he started with the short arm, doggin' it BS would be fine by me. Unless it prevents us from taking Hank. ; )

[ElectricEye]

I could do that. I just hope he and Brady know his role. Any repeat of that awful Jets game at the start of the year would suck. Then again...any repeat of the awful Jets game at the end of the season would be even worse.

[ElectricEye]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/03/17/report-meriweather-was-the-shooter/

Merri just can't stop taking cheap shots at guys heads.

[descendency]

Just curious, why does no one ever point out that Pete Carroll coached (for 3 years) the team Bill Parcells built? And Belichick simply managed to recover the team after 3 years of Pete Carroll?

I always see people say "Belichick won with Parcells team, not his" but by the time they won in 04 (which was considered the best team in NE - save maybe 07), it had been 8 years since Parcells had any involvement with the team... which is significantly longer than most NFL players last.

I've quite seriously never seen that said in any of these "belichick isn't great" threads.

edit: Is it embarrassment? I would be embarrassed if he coached my team too.

[nepg]

To be fair, that team (d)evolved into something much different in Carroll's tenure.

I liked Pete and always thought he got a raw deal in New England. That team kept getting so close to getting over the hump, but there was always something that came up to throw a wrench in the plans (Curtis Martin, Robert Edwards).

[FlyingElvis]

Just curious, why does no one ever point out that Pete Carroll coached (for 3 years) the team Bill Parcells built? And Belichick simply managed to recover the team after 3 years of Pete Carroll?

I always see people say "Belichick won with Parcells team, not his" but by the time they won in 04 (which was considered the best team in NE - save maybe 07), it had been 8 years since Parcells had any involvement with the team... which is significantly longer than most NFL players last.

I've quite seriously never seen that said in any of these "belichick isn't great" threads.

edit: Is it embarrassment? I would be embarrassed if he coached my team too.

Because people who wish to detract from how great a coach BB is often use false logic and dishonest assessments. Mostly because there's no reasonable way to argue that he's not a great coach.

Carroll is terrible. His personnel moves suck, his drafting is worse, and his 'rah rah' **** doesn't last long in the NFL - if it even holds any weight initially. Seattle will be mired in even worse of a mess within 3 years.

[Nandoss]

Just curious, why does no one ever point out that Pete Carroll coached (for 3 years) the team Bill Parcells built? And Belichick simply managed to recover the team after 3 years of Pete Carroll?

I always see people say "Belichick won with Parcells team, not his" but by the time they won in 04 (which was considered the best team in NE - save maybe 07), it had been 8 years since Parcells had any involvement with the team... which is significantly longer than most NFL players last.

I've quite seriously never seen that said in any of these "belichick isn't great" threads.

edit: Is it embarrassment? I would be embarrassed if he coached my team too.

People hate the Patriots and BB because they are always good and always winning, that hate makes them find any reason possible to demerit any of their qualities even if it doesn't make sense or isn't accurate.

Out of the players that were part of the 2001 campaign, 50 joined between 2000 and 2001, several of them barely played but that just shows how much rebuilding it took in 2000, BB's only losing season in his NE career.

As for Carroll, I think he is a great college coach and an average at best professional coach. He does well when every player sees him as a father figure and believe in him, with professionals who aren't as easy to manipulate he struggles and doesn't have the technical and tactical knowledge to make up for it.

[descendency]

Tuesday night, 8 pm EST on ESPN - "The Brady 6" will discuss the 6 Super Bowls Tom Brady will win. . . I mean the 6 QBs drafted before Tom Brady and how this motivated him to be the ultimate winner.

[descendency]

A small taste of the "Brady 6" where brady talks about how frustrating it was for him to sit there and wait to be drafted.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6322344&categoryid=2378529

[descendency]

I don't know if anyone was hoping the Patriots pursue Nnamdi Asomugha, but the Patriots won't.

He's represented by CAA = Tom Condon.

[Nalej]

I watched a bit of the Brady 6. Liked it.

I never actually thought Nmandi was coming over to NE so I'm fine

[BradysKnee]

Was just a pipe dream anyway.

[descendency]

I watched a bit of the Brady 6. Liked it.

I never actually thought Nmandi was coming over to NE so I'm fine

Yeah. The Brady 6 seemed good, but I think it could have been better. It seemed to lack a focus. It tried to tell 3-4 stories and didn't really tell any of them.

There were some interesting tidbits though... and a lot of "yeah, we knew he would be good back then even but just passed on him" type comments.

And yea, I only thought Nnamdi would come to NE because it's one of the few places he could be an instant starter, be on a winning team, be with a winning head coach, have a franchise QB, and have cap room to pay him, and the team has a history of taking chances on FAs at big cost (though the last one was Adalius Thomas). The only reasons I could see him wanting to go elsewhere is friends, insane money, or a personality clash with someone like Belichick.

[FlyingElvis]

Nnamdi would be wasted talent in our constant zone coverage. He be a fool to come in here and have far less chance to be the impact player he will be elsewhere, especially since he'd likely have to take a lower $$$$ figure.

[TNPatsFan]

I know I'm in a minority who feels this way (like I'm the only one in it) but I think Nnamdi is one of the most overrated players in the NFL. He had one great year a few years back and has been cashing in on it ever since.

[FlyingElvis]

I haven't seen enough to know for sure. I do know that the Raiders haven't been good enough against the run to force any QB to really test Nnamdi much.

I will agree that he's overrated based on his skill / positional value / expected payday. There's no player on the field except QBs and QBKillers worth the pay he'll get.

[Nandoss]

The Brady 6 had great production and awful storyline. They mixed everything, it didn't seem to have an objective. It looked more like a collection of things related to Brady and the 6 QBs drafted before him than a documentary. It is fun to watch but needed a better director, and the narrating was very bland.
High point though was the commentary on Giovanni Carmazzi.

[Nandoss]

Have you guys seen McGinest in NFL Network?
He looks in shape. Maybe if we don't draft a OLB we bring him back. JK

[descendency]

The Brady 6 had great production and awful storyline. They mixed everything, it didn't seem to have an objective. It looked more like a collection of things related to Brady and the 6 QBs drafted before him than a documentary. It is fun to watch but needed a better director, and the narrating was very bland.
High point though was the commentary on Giovanni Carmazzi.

Exactly what I thought. I thought the line talking about how the 49ers had hoped to draft the next Joe Montana (with Carmazzi) was one of the better ones. Unfortunately for them, the next Joe Montana was in the draft... it just wasn't Carmazzi.

[Borat]

Exactly what I thought. I thought the line talking about how the 49ers had hoped to draft the next Joe Montana (with Carmazzi) was one of the better ones. Unfortunately for them, the next Joe Montana was in the draft... it just wasn't Carmazzi.

I still haz a sad.

[Matthew Jones]

Any thoughts on the forum mock so far? Still have one pick in each of the remaining rounds (5, 6, 7.)

17. OG Mike Pouncey, Florida

28. DE Muhammad Wilkerson, Temple*

41. LB Akeem Ayers, UCLA*

51. WR Torrey Smith, Maryland*

53. FS Rahim Moore, UCLA*

112. RB Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma

[FlyingElvis]

First round was solid w/Pouncey and Wilkerson. Ok value for players that should be excellent for us, but I wasn't thrilled by it.

You played the board well through the second and turned it into an awesome draft overall. Love the moves down and then back up into the second landing Ayers / Smith / Moore. Then again to package up a bunch of 5th round picks to grab Hunter.

[Nalej]

I'm not a fan of Ayers for us. *shrug*
I think he should stay in a 43 to be honest.
I'd take Houston, Reed, Acho and Sheard before I'd settle on Ayers

[Jvig43]

I'd be content with Ayers at 41.

[BradysKnee]

I'm not a fan of Ayers for us. *shrug*
I think he should stay in a 43 to be honest.
I'd take Houston, Reed, Acho and Sheard before I'd settle on Ayers

Really?
I like Ayers. I cannot see Houston or Sheard playing 3-4 at all.
Acho is a later guy that I really like though.

[Nandoss]

Really?
I like Ayers. I cannot see Houston or Sheard playing 3-4 at all.
Acho is a later guy that I really like though.

Didn't Houston played some snaps as OLB?

[Nalej]

Yea, Houston was an OLB for UGA. All he did was rush the passer though. For the most part
I think Sheard is athletic enough to do it but I don't have high hopes on his coverage skills though, just his pass rushing ones

[Nandoss]

Yea, Houston was an OLB for UGA. All he did was rush the passer though. For the most part
I think Sheard is athletic enough to do it but I don't have high hopes on his coverage skills though, just his pass rushing ones

Yeah! I wasn't sure if I was thinking of someone else. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
He did only rush the passer, but do you think TBC is great dropping in coverage? Jermaine Cunningham? Ninkovich? My true worry would be if he can set the edge. Covering I believe he can be just as good as what we have, and a better rusher, and I'll take take any day.
I haven't seem Sheard, but Houston seems like a decent pass rusher to me. I'd love Miller but since that's not happening and it seem Kerrigan, Smith and Quinn will be long gone when 17 comes I'd be happy with him, but maybe at 28. I'd like to see an OL at 17 if all the top pass rushers are gone, almost any that has a first round grade except Pouncey. Don't know why, just don't like the guy.

[Jvig43]

Guyz, the draft is three days away. haha

[proshoota25]

Can't sleep.. been thinking about various possibilities for mock drafts for the patriots.... this might not be the exact lineup i submit for our challenge.. but this is what i am thinking... and am fairly confident about.....:

1. Anthony Castonzo, OT, BC
1. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
2. Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois
2. Sam Acho, OLB, Texas
3. John Moffitt, G/C, Wisconsin
3. Ahmad Black, S, UF

Not the most ideal mock.... to my standards anyway, but i think its very realistic.... has the mix of experience and captains, along with some developmental players. thoughts?

[Blackluck]

Doesn't Castonzo have the same agent as J.J. Watt? Otherwise minus the trades looks like a realistic Pat's draft.

(Neither here nor there but I'd not be surprised to see the Pat's move up to 12 (Vikings) to grab C.Jordan if he's still available.)

[Jvig43]

I really dont want Castonzo at 17.

[descendency]

I really dont want Castonzo at 17.

I'll tell you a little secret... the Patriots won't draft him. 100% sure.

[descendency]

Logan Mankins (his thoughts on the Patriots possibly drafting guards)
"I don't care who they draft. They could draft three guards, for all I care, they still have to beat me out. And if they release me, someone would pay me to play for them, so I'm not too worried about that."

That sounds like Mankins will be around for training camp.

[proshoota25]

I'll tell you a little secret... the Patriots won't draft him. 100% sure.

based on what? this guy has everything the patriots would look for.... plus hes a local guy with great intangibles, and someone dante personally worked out.

[proshoota25]

trust me i dont want an OT in the first round, but i think castonzo could be a possibility

[Nandoss]

1. Anthony Castonzo, OT, BC
1. Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio St.
2. Mikel LeShoure, RB, Illinois
2. Sam Acho, OLB, Texas
3. John Moffitt, G/C, Wisconsin
3. Ahmad Black, S, UF


Depending on how the draft goes I can see Castonzo being the first pick. Personally I'd rather go after Carimi or Smith because I'm pretty sure Light will be back and Castonzo is more a plug and play guy and those other two need some development but have a slightly higher ceiling.

I just don't get why everyone is so desperate for NE to draft a DE. Unless Ty Warren is released I don't see why.

I think and hope they trade up to grab at least Kerrigan. Didn't like what I saw from the guys past the top half of the first rounder regarding pass rushers. To me Miller, Kerrigan, Quinn and Aldon, in that order, are the ones that could make a difference. The rest doesn't seem to add to TBC, Moore, Cunningham and Ninkovic.

[descendency]

based on what? this guy has everything the patriots would look for.... plus hes a local guy with great intangibles, and someone dante personally worked out.

Tom Condon.

edit: It was said earlier, but I seriously seriously doubt the Patriots touch a Condon guy without a rookie salary slotting system.

[FlyingElvis]

I'm not a fan of OL at 17 either, but I've done it in mocks for different challenges on here. The value at 17 is average (at best) for Pouncey / Carimi / Constanzo but if that's the way we go I'd be ok with it. Assuming, of course, the we still are able to fill big needs later in the draft.

I don't believe for even a second that the Patriots organization would pass on a prospect they thought was an excellent talent based on his agent.

I just don't get why everyone is so desperate for NE to draft a DE. Unless Ty Warren is released I don't see why.

We have no full time starter for the opposite side of Ty and there's no guarantee that Ty comes back to form. He's older and every other DE on the roster is either old or average (or both) so we absolutely need to get younger and get depth at the DE spot. Every time Vince Wilfork lined up at DE last season it was an undeniable reminder that we do not have what we need at DE.

[Nandoss]

We have no full time starter for the opposite side of Ty and there's no guarantee that Ty comes back to form. He's older and every other DE on the roster is either old or average (or both) so we absolutely need to get younger and get depth at the DE spot. Every time Vince Wilfork lined up at DE last season it was an undeniable reminder that we do not have what we need at DE.

I understand what you are saying, but you have to remember that the only reason we didn't have a full time starter was because of injury. The line was supposed to be Warren, Wilfork and Gerard Warren, but at one time we were so thin at DE guys were playing every snap. My only concern with Ty is if they try to trade or cut him since reports have surfaced saying they want to cut his pay and that he wouldn't take it. Ty turned 30 in February, I hardly think that's an age DL drops in performance and his injury was reported as not being that serious, he even said he could have played through it but decided against it to have a longer career. Other athletes with the same problem came back with no problem at all. Maybe because there may not be a pre-season he starts slow but by the third game he'd be fine.
We have Kade Weston, 24 coming back from injury, Mike Wright, 29 who I think would be fine starting, Brandon Deaderick, 23 has good potential, Darryl Richard, 24 hasn't showed much but is young and has time to develop, Landon Cohen, 24 and the only one who is older than Ty is Stroud who we just signed at 32. The Pats biggest problem was injury that ate away any depth they had and made people start getting desperate about DE. I think Wright can start and be fine and Warren\Wilfork are solid. I would only draft a 34 DE at 17 or higher if he would be an instant pro bowler or if his ceiling was future HoF, since I don't see no one in this draft class like that I would wait to pick a DE.

[FlyingElvis]

I don't see any of those young guys as any more than depth. Ty is the only full time DE I see on our roster. Wright is great as a situational guy but is an immediate target for run audibles when he's in the game. G.Warren is not the answer and that means DE is a big need.

The biggest point of discord in our opinions is on the DEs available at 17 or 28. I see Cam Jordan, JJ Watt, Heyward and even Wilkerson as immediate upgrades over the talent we have as our LDE.

Jordan & Watt at 17 have pro-bowl potential without question in my mind. Heyward & Wilkerson at 28 (maybe 33) would be nice, if not.

[BradysKnee]

I believe 3 likely scenarios for us tomorrow.

1. Trade up for Amukamara
2. Stay put and grab C. Jordan (hopefully)
3. Grab D. Bowers at #17.

If none of those options are there I think we trade down and get Solder, Carimi, maybe Watkins or Heyward.

[descendency]

Gerard Warren sucks.

[Jvig43]

I was just saying I dont want castanzo at 17 rather than no o-line. But I pray to God we come out of this draft with a DE/OLB in the first round. Thats all I want is an impact pass rusher. I know we have other areas of need but this position has needed addressing for several years now, its ******* time to deal with haha.

[Vaylor]

I understand what you are saying, but you have to remember that the only reason we didn't have a full time starter was because of injury. The line was supposed to be Warren, Wilfork and Gerard Warren, but at one time we were so thin at DE guys were playing every snap. My only concern with Ty is if they try to trade or cut him since reports have surfaced saying they want to cut his pay and that he wouldn't take it. Ty turned 30 in February, I hardly think that's an age DL drops in performance and his injury was reported as not being that serious, he even said he could have played through it but decided against it to have a longer career. Other athletes with the same problem came back with no problem at all. Maybe because there may not be a pre-season he starts slow but by the third game he'd be fine.
We have Kade Weston, 24 coming back from injury, Mike Wright, 29 who I think would be fine starting, Brandon Deaderick, 23 has good potential, Darryl Richard, 24 hasn't showed much but is young and has time to develop, Landon Cohen, 24 and the only one who is older than Ty is Stroud who we just signed at 32. The Pats biggest problem was injury that ate away any depth they had and made people start getting desperate about DE. I think Wright can start and be fine and Warren\Wilfork are solid. I would only draft a 34 DE at 17 or higher if he would be an instant pro bowler or if his ceiling was future HoF, since I don't see no one in this draft class like that I would wait to pick a DE.

Pretty much agreed with this. I don't see DE as so much as a need as it is a position where the Patriots could use some depth. I would say Jarvis Jenkins or Lawrence Guy in the 3rd would be fine.

[descendency]

Pretty much agreed with this. I don't see DE as so much as a need as it is a position where the Patriots could use some depth. I would say Jarvis Jenkins or Lawrence Guy in the 3rd would be fine.

I don't want to sound like someone who "knows it all" but the vast majority of the year, the DEs were getting beat badly. They'd get knocked out of the play, unable to get any rush on the QB (which is a secondary goal... but isn't something that should be ignored) and in general were awful. TV Experts missed this badly. I am surprised to. It was quite obvious how badly Ron Brace played at times.

Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Brandon Deaderick, and others are backups. Ty Warren and Wilfork are the only two legitimate starting DL on this team for a team of this caliber. I'm not saying we should have Haloti Ngata at DE as well, but let's help out or OLBs a bit. They were bad, but it's hard not to be when the DEs are retreating.

[BradysKnee]

I don't want to sound like someone who "knows it all" but the vast majority of the year, the DEs were getting beat badly. They'd get knocked out of the play, unable to get any rush on the QB (which is a secondary goal... but isn't something that should be ignored) and in general were awful. TV Experts missed this badly. I am surprised to. It was quite obvious how badly Ron Brace played at times.

Ron Brace, Gerard Warren, Brandon Deaderick, and others are backups. Ty Warren and Wilfork are the only two legitimate starting DL on this team for a team of this caliber. I'm not saying we should have Haloti Ngata at DE as well, but let's help out or OLBs a bit. They were bad, but it's hard not to be when the DEs are retreating.

Yeah I agree, the fact we had wilfork playing some end to help vs the run is pretty sad.

[proshoota25]

DE absolutely is a need. BB has worked out all the top DEs... my feeling is we are gunna come out of tomorrow or Friday with one of them

[TNPatsFan]

I agree too, but DE imo is not as big a need as OLB, simply because of numbers. They only have 3 OLB's on the roster and two of those are at best backups and at worst should only be on special teams. At least they have some numbers on DE. With that said there are probably no OLB's in this draft that are worth taking in the first round. Jarvis Jenkins was mentioned. He is being very underrated. For a big guy he was making plays all over the field in the senior bowl. I'd take him in round 2 and would be thrilled to get him.

[proshoota25]

Todd McShay ----- " I think the patriots are going to trade to 9 to select cam jordan. i have heard from multiple sources about how infatuated they are with this player."

[TNPatsFan]

Todd McShay ----- " I think the patriots are going to trade to 9 to select cam jordan. i have heard from multiple sources about how infatuated they are with this player."

A few thoughts about that.
- I'd love to know who those multiple sources are.
- Not saying it won't happen but I just don't see the Pats ever getting "infatuated" with any players in a draft.
- They probably wouldn't need to trade up to get him.. or at least not that far.
- I do like Jordan and would be happy to see the Pats get him, but I'd be very disappointed if they had to give up picks in a trade and then spend a top 10 pick to get him. He's just not worth that.

[BradysKnee]

A few thoughts about that.
- I'd love to know who those multiple sources are.
- Not saying it won't happen but I just don't see the Pats ever getting "infatuated" with any players in a draft.
- They probably wouldn't need to trade up to get him.. or at least not that far.
- I do like Jordan and would be happy to see the Pats get him, but I'd be very disappointed if they had to give up picks in a trade and then spend a top 10 pick to get him. He's just not worth that.

Patriots are probably going to trade up to grab /someone/ from 17, then down from 28 to recoup their picks.

[descendency]

They probably wouldn't need to trade up to get him.. or at least not that far.

If you want to talk internet rumors: Washington is also rumored to be infatuated with Cam Jordan - who has pick #10.

[Nandoss]

I don't see any of those young guys as any more than depth. Ty is the only full time DE I see on our roster. Wright is great as a situational guy but is an immediate target for run audibles when he's in the game. G.Warren is not the answer and that means DE is a big need.

The biggest point of discord in our opinions is on the DEs available at 17 or 28. I see Cam Jordan, JJ Watt, Heyward and even Wilkerson as immediate upgrades over the talent we have as our LDE.

Jordan & Watt at 17 have pro-bowl potential without question in my mind. Heyward & Wilkerson at 28 (maybe 33) would be nice, if not.

If I'm not mistaken Gerard isn't with the team anymore unless we resign him whenever that becomes a possibility.

I agree that the biggest point of disagreement between me and pretty much everyone is in the evaluation of the DE players for 34. I'm not as high as everyone on Watt and Jordan, and I'm not as down on our guys as everyone. I didn't think Wright got beat up by other teams as much as he, and everyone else in our line for that matter, got tired and couldn't hold up through the game and season.

I actually believe Heyward and Wilkerson are way better prospects than Jordan and Watt, and they would definitely be an upgrade opposite Ty, but I think if we manage to get Aldon Smith or Ryan Kerrigan they would improve our team much more than the DE's.

I truly believe the young talent we have can be developed into good starters. Deaderick and Weston are heading into their second year only, dismissing them as back ups without giving them a chance to show improvement is just too hasty for me.

[descendency]

The last 24 hours suggest the Patriots are enamored with Cam Jordan (they did ask him to do linebacker drills...) and that they are looking to trade to 9 to ensure getting him. To recoup those picks, there is a big possibility of trading down to Oakland (who wants back in round 1) and taking their second and maybe their 2012 first . . . or 2012 second and something.

[FlyingElvis]

The Jordan rumors are fairly new so they could be BS. The trade rumors for 28/33 netting a second and 2012 1st have been around a while, so it's a safe bet that's true. But we have all been talking trade w/the value of (most likely) QBs as trade bait, so that's no surprise.

I would be happy w/a move up for Jordan and a move down to recoup picks. Hopefully Cam will prove TNPatsfan wrong. :)

[Blackluck]

In a normal year I think they might have stayed at 17 or traded down, but with the uncertain (and now chaotic) labor situation, they need guys who can pick up the system quickly. By all accounts C.Jordan understands "gap responsibility" which is crucial for the Pats, thus I'd be not surprised at all for them to be sure they grab Jordan at whatever pick they deem necessary and recoup those with pick 28 or 33. The Pats just do no take OLB's in the first and I can't see them starting now, which leaves tackle. I don't know if any of this year's tackles warrant a pick at 17 - i.e. they can get comparable value probably in the second. While they might be enamored with Ingram, positional value wins out. The caveat here is if they think Wilkerson/Edwards offer comparable value to Jordan, so it comes down to how the team evaluates these players.

[descendency]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/28/patriots-have-spoken-with-browns-about-sixth-pick/

Mike Holmgren of the Browns has made it clear he wants to deal. At least one team is listening.

We don’t know how serious talks between the Patriots and Browns are, but Greg A. Bedard of the Boston Globe reports New England has talked with Cleveland regarding interest in the No. 6 overall pick. ESPN has also reported that the Patriots want to move.

Bedard figures the Patriots want to move up for UNC pass rusher Robert Quinn, who would convert to outside linebacker in New England. Bedard believes Julio Jones or Patrick Peterson could also be targets.

[AntoinCD]

Just seen that. If the Pats take Quinn, Jones or Peterson I think my balls may blow Ive jizzed that much

[ryno626]

thoughts on Scott's new mock? I'd jizz in my pants if it really played out like that...
Carimi, Heyward, Ryan Williams, Houston, Hankerson and Moffit

(#28 traded to Tennessee for their 2nd)

Carimi at RT, kick Sbass to LT and add Moffit to solidify the OL. We get our 5 tech, a pass rushing OLB and good sized WR to get off Revis Island

[AntoinCD]

thoughts on Scott's new mock? I'd jizz in my pants if it really played out like that...
Carimi, Heyward, Ryan Williams, Houston, Hankerson and Moffit

(#28 traded to Tennessee for their 2nd)

Carimi at RT, kick Sbass to LT and add Moffit to solidify the OL. We get our 5 tech, a pass rushing OLB and good sized WR to get off Revis Island

I do like that mock. Not sold on Houston though personally. Im starting to come around to Ryan Williams in the second to be honest

[FlyingElvis]

That mock would definitely make me happy.


Trade talks with Cleveland, eh? C'mon AJ Green!!

[descendency]

I'm almost scared it's a WR. We've had **** luck with WRs.

gFtb3EtjEic

[proshoota25]

That mock would definitely make me happy.


Trade talks with Cleveland, eh? C'mon AJ Green!!

C'mon Robert Quinn!

[nepg]

Marcell Dareus?

[descendency]

I kind of want Patrick Peterson just to see the look on people's faces when they get the best player in this draft. :D

[descendency]

Marcell Dareus?

He may go top 3. My guess is 2nd. I doubt he'll be available. Plus, I don't think the premium is worth it to get him over Cam Jordan.

[ElectricEye]

I kind of want Patrick Peterson just to see the look on people's faces when they get the best player in this draft. :D


I would have called it a long time ago! It won't happen.... but good god, that would be interesting.

It's hard to sort through just how much of this smoke about trading up is true and how much of it isn't. I'm not sure I buy the Cleveland rumors because of just how many spots that would be...but we've got to remember that this is a real funny, chaotic year.

[Blackluck]

I can't see this happening. Quinn is a projection which all but takes him off the Pat's board unless he slips, a WR doesn't offer positional value. Peterson? Maybe but seems unlikely and the difference between Jordan and Wilkerson probably isn't that great (just guessing though.)

More likely we trade 17 for a 2 this year and a 1 next, then trade up from 28 to get .. .somebody :)

[FlyingElvis]

Similar rumors last year had us all guessing if we were moving up for BJ Raji or Tyson Jackson.

So, based on history, this rumor clearly means we will trade right out of round one.

[ElectricEye]

Ehh.....I'm not so sure about that. Those were far less substantial, IMO. More of media inventions. Seem to be some meat to this one. Not saying it makes it anymore likely, but this seems to read a little bit differently.

[FlyingElvis]

I hope so. I want Jordan to be the pick. Julio is still my dark horse pick if we do move up to 9, though.

[descendency]

I wanted him first :(

[Nalej]

Good God! I'd blow my load if Scotts mock came true!!!
I like Houston. Wouldnt mind him at 28

[ElectricEye]

Not true. I was on Jordan before everyone else in the team board. DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE!

[descendency]

Good God! I'd blow my load if Scotts mock came true!!!
I like Houston. Wouldnt mind him at 28

Ehhh. I could do without a stiff pass rusher.

[ElectricEye]

I'm through with Houston too. I really don't like some of things that are coming out of scouts mouths about him. Potential free-fall candidate there.

[Nandoss]

If Scott's mock were to happen I'd be extremely happy. Getting Houston at 60 would be great. I rank the pass rushers Miller, Smith, Quinn, Kerrigan and Houston. I'd take Houston at 33 or even 28. Love Heyward, Carimi, Hankerson and Moffitt. I think that's the first mock I've seen that pleases me completely. Won't happen probably but it doesn't cost to dream.

It's hard to tell what is true at this point, we'll just have to wait and see. I would love if we moved up for Smith, the more I watch his tape the more I see what kind of production he may have in the NFL, he has huge upside.
I'm not sure if Peterson or Green would fall to 6 but would love to have either of them. If they move up for Jordan or Julio Jones I think will be a waste. Both would improve our team but are not worth the trade.

I love the draft. I'm so excited it's almost time. If it weren't for the draft I would've completely shut down NFL from my life until I heard they were playing games. The labor issue is the worst thing that could happen to the NFL and its players. I hope they lose money because of it and learn to be more comprehensive with each other in future negotiations.

[Jvig43]

I want to get excited about trading up, but I'll believe it when I see it haha. ESPN just debunked some of those rumors and said that the talks are now that the Pats arent even interested enough in any of the five technique guys that even if one falls to 17 they wont pick him. So sad. haha

[ElectricEye]

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.



....well, with this team at least. Lies within lies, smokescreens within smokescreens, trades within trades...

[RWills]

Please please please Cam Jordan

[FlyingElvis]

Please please please Cam Jordan

agreed.

we are all in the draft day thread in the team forum. c'mon over to that one.

[Nandoss]

I would be happier if we had traded down, but Solder is a great future partner opposite Vollmer

[ElectricEye]

I love me some Solder guys. He's honestly been on my radar for us for awhile. Everyone is down on him for some reason and I really don't see why. He's a project....but he was a first team All American this year and it wasn't just due to hype. Dude can play and play well right away.

[RWills]

Kind of looking good taking a tackle now that 25 picks in most are gone

[FlyingElvis]

Solder won't get major complaints from me. We knew OT was necessary and this gives us the most freakishly athletic OT available. I don't love it, but he could definitely make me forget anyone I liked that we didn't get.

I had OT at 17 in several of my mocks for challenges on here.

[descendency]

By far my least favorite "first round" OT. But Dante Scar is almost never wrong about OL.

[ElectricEye]

I assure you guys, this guy can play a little bit already. Scarnecchia is the best in the business too. I would be nervous taking Solder if I was a team with a weak coaching staff, but the kid has tools coming out of his ass on top of a willingness to learn and get better. Good character guy too.

[RWills]

Im a little pissed we let Heyward and Wilkerson go right by us...hard to argue the trade value though...tomorrow please be SHEARD !!!

2. OLB - Jabal Sheard
2. RB - Ryan Williams
2. DE - Jarvis Jenkins
3. OG - Jon Moffit
3. CB/S - Marcus Gilchrist

[ElectricEye]

Ehh...Sheard is stiffer than initially advertised. There's a few guys I would prefer over him at this point.

[descendency]

I watched a lot of Colorado (I had Jimmy Smith as my #1 pure corner, though I think PP is the better athlete) and I really didn't like what I saw out of Solder at times.

But, I think Solder is the kind of guy you can wait a year on and he'll probably be fine. I don't think he'll be playing a ton of OT this year, but I'm sure he'll be somewhere.

[ElectricEye]

Wouldn't be surprised to see us bring in Light for another year at RT and put Solder in at one of the G spots to learn to get low haha. That would certainly be a good way to teach him to fire out of his stance.

[FlyingElvis]

His issues are not ability and talent. The rest is coachable.

[ElectricEye]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6445910


Solder interview on ESPN after the selection. REALLY solid guy. Love him already.

[ElectricEye]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7356/soldere.jpg

[TNPatsFan]

Here's my take on Solder. He's a tall, skinny, athletic OT who was the OL of the year in one of the best conferences in the NCAA and was one of the top 5 (top 2 or 3 by many accounts) OT's in the draft. He needs a lot of development and a lot of added strength and bulk.

Now, flash back a couple years. The Pats drafted Sebastian Vollmer in the second round. He was also a tall, athletic OT who needed a lot of development. The difference is he played in Conference USA and was considered a major reach in the second round as most people had him rated a late round developmental prospect.

Despite that, Vollmer stepped in at LT early in his rookie year when Light went down and played very well.

I say if Dante can get a guy like Vollmer ready to play well that quickly then there's no reason to think he can't get Solder, with all of his upside, ready to play a lot and play well as a rookie.

[ElectricEye]

Solder is the ultimate projection tackle right now. He weighs 319 pounds right now and is STILL skinny because of his extremely low bodyfat percentage. He may never be a guy that's bulky...but that's a good thing. He's got one of those rare frames that will allow him to play at 340+ and maintain his athletic ability. It might take him awhile to work up to that and he may never really reach that point, but watch out if he gets even half way there.

[Jvig43]

So with the lockout lifted, anyone have any idea when we can start getting guys in here? I know Monday was a day alot of players said they would show up to team facilities, but any idea when we can get some of the new guys in?

[ElectricEye]

So with the lockout lifted

http://thechiefest.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/lee-corso1.jpg

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/05/reimposed-lockout-creates-unusual-times-for-nfl-teams/1

[Matthew Jones]

Interesting note - fifth-round pick Marcus Cannon is represented by CAA, Tom Condon's agency.

[Jvig43]

That report seems like the guy who wrote it is more confused than I am haha. I guess we have to wait and see haha

[ElectricEye]

Interesting note - fifth-round pick Marcus Cannon is represented by CAA, Tom Condon's agency.

This stuff is going to get ridiculously fun then.

[descendency]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7356/soldere.jpg

:O

Why did they let him stand on a step ladder... lol

[ElectricEye]

He is really freaking tall, that's for sure. Even in a suit, that doesn't look like a 320 pound man either. They just showed him on the ESPN Draft wrap up special and managed to find the ONE clip he actually looked good against Cam Jordan haha.


Teddy and Kiper are ripping into what we did in the draft pretty hard too, with good reason. I know we all like to put down talking heads, but I honestly see where they're coming from on this one.

[descendency]

I gave the draft a D. I feel this team just got younger. That's a good thing, but I don't feel it's better. We are replacing positions that are relatively unimportant (FB, Blocking TE, 3rd rb). I really feel we could have got nearly equal value in FA for those picks (except our new 3rd runningback - Vereen).

I mean, we seriously just invested a 3rd round pick into a fullback. A ****ing fullback. Are you kidding me?

[ElectricEye]

A fullback conversion prospect, even.

I'm a very big fan of the first three picks as individual players...so much so that I'm OK with glossing over other needs...but I'm not OK with dicking around like we won the Super Bowl and our general approach. It's a draft that will be remembered for being less than the sum of it's individual parts simply because we didn't do anything to make the team better right away.

[Nalej]

I agree with Desc.
The only reason I gave it a C was bc I really like the Solder, Dowling, Vereen and Mallett picks.
Raised it from a D to a C. That and the first two trades. I really like the value we got.
I tend to wonder how Bonner or Sintim would look in a NE uniform.
I don't think their lack of production on other teams means they would have had similar results with us.

I agree that the blocking TE and FB picks were shockers.
Is it just me or was the 6th rd OLB selection a kick in the nuts?
Seriously Bill? At this point, we don't believe you were ever interested in addressing the need.
We're not falling for it now lol

[ElectricEye]

Is it just me or was the 6th rd OLB selection a kick in the nuts?
Seriously Bill? At this point, we don't believe you were ever interested in addressing the need.
We're not falling for it now lol

It's like asking your Mom for Nike's and having her come home with that weird brand from Walmart and selling you on how it's the same thing. It really ******* isn't Billy boy.

[Nalej]

hahahahaha... exactly...

"WTF is this, mom? That's not what I asked for!"
"I asked the salesman. He said they're the same thing"

[nepg]

I'm thinking it was a roster space issue. They only drafted players at positions with players on their way out the door. They weren't going after anyone's job or trying to replace any starters in this draft.

When you look at their DL, they have 8 guys under 25 and I think most of them showed a lot of promise. And at OLB, they do have Eric Moore, who was a beast for them. They couldn't fully utilize Moore as an OLB because they had so many injuries along the DL, so he was forced into a bit of a hybrid role. Once everyone's healthy, the front seven is going to look worlds better than it did in 2010.

[Nalej]

Honestly, once it was clear we werent taking an OLB, E. Moore was the guy I was thinkin BB has a lot of faith in. I look forward to seeing his progression.

[ElectricEye]

I wouldn't exactly have said that Eric Moore was a "beast". He was pretty good, but it mostly came out of subpackages and such. I think he can be a pretty good piece player for us, but I'm not confident enough in him at all to go out and completely pass on superior talent.

Injuries are going to hit this LB'ing core pretty damn hard too. We're really paper thin there.

[AntoinCD]

I wouldn't exactly have said that Eric Moore was a "beast". He was pretty good, but it mostly came out of subpackages and such. I think he can be a pretty good piece player for us, but I'm not confident enough in him at all to go out and completely pass on superior talent.

Injuries are going to hit this LB'ing core pretty damn hard too. We're really paper thin there.

I actually think depth wise the bodies we have is ok. Cunningham, Moore, TBC and Ninkovich gives a solid rotation...what is lacking is a true stud. Add in that Fletcher and Guyton could both log time outside and the number of players there is ok.

I think it will remain to be seen how good this draft could be. Everyone hated it last year when they passed on Hughes and Kindle. Just because someone plays at a position of need I think we tend to kinda crave them a little. I never bought the Sheard hype and didn't like Reed's fit in our defense.

[ElectricEye]

Cunningham missed significant time last year, and worst yet was slowed for a long period of time when he did actually get in there.

Tully had some hamstring issues at times last year that really limited him play down the stretch.

Same thing with Moore, except he played through it for the most part.

Rob Ninkovich tore a ligament in his knee during the playoff game and we still don't really know if he'll be ready in time...

Guyton and Fletcher have no business playing OLB, Guyton especially. Build up speed doesn't play well coming off the edge, and he struggles getting off blocks in a big way on top of that.

So yeah, I'm not all that confident in this groups ability to stay healthy....and I'm not confident in their ability to play all that well either, to be honest.

[AntoinCD]

Cunningham missed significant time last year, and worst yet was slowed for a long period of time when he did actually get in there.

Tully had some hamstring issues at times last year that really limited him play down the stretch.

Same thing with Moore, except he played through it for the most part.

Rob Ninkovich tore a ligament in his knee during the playoff game and we still don't really know if he'll be ready in time...

Guyton and Fletcher have no business playing OLB, Guyton especially. Build up speed doesn't play well coming off the edge, and he struggles getting off blocks in a big way on top of that.

So yeah, I'm not all that confident in this groups ability to stay healthy....and I'm not confident in their ability to play all that well either, to be honest.

The D is in a sub package nearly half the time when they play either a four man line or a 3-3-5. This limits the amounts of snaps the bigger OLBs play and Guyton is perfectly suited as a WILL.

I agree with the injuries comment but you can't afford to carry more than 8 LBs, 9 at a stretch

[ElectricEye]

That's sort of my point. Many of these guys, I'm looking at you Tully, would be cut with proper competition.

[Nandoss]

I think it will remain to be seen how good this draft could be. Everyone hated it last year when they passed on Hughes and Kindle. Just because someone plays at a position of need I think we tend to kinda crave them a little. I never bought the Sheard hype and didn't like Reed's fit in our defense.

Last year was a great draft because we hit big with 5 out of 12 picks. That's a complete anomaly. We still have a big hole at OLB and almost no pass rush. This group might end up the same, and we still will have that hole. We have solid LBs, but none of them are good pass rushers.

[nepg]

Look at it this way... How many 3-4 Defensive Ends have been drafted in the last 4-5 years and are starting? How many are playing really well? The first list consists of a few players (Tyson Jackson, Calais Campbell?, ?) and the latter question really only has Glenn Dorsey, who was kind of square-peg, round-holed into the position.

The talent just hasn't been there for the Pats. And they've been proven fairly right by the fact that the guys they've passed on aren't doing anything. Cam Jordan, to me, was maybe a Jarvis Green type of player in this defense. The Pats already have a couple guys like that. Jarvis Jenkins seemed like a nice player, but he's also a bit of a project...which the Pats just don't have room for right now.

[ElectricEye]

I disagree about Cam Jordan being limited to being a Jarvis Green type of player. Green was a nice player, but I honestly feel Jordan could come in and be that type of guy right away and continue to improve. But my subjective opinion is just as good as your subjective opinion until the facts bear out over time, so yeah, we'll just have to wait and see how that one turns out in the end. You well could be right...but I feel like I've got a real solid feel on Jordan from watching a **** ton of his film this year that says you're selling him short.

We don't have room for a project when we're carrying players the rest of the league would likely cut? I mean, I know Bill is good with these diamond in the rough types, but that's the thing. We legit had practice squad quality players up at points last year. None of these guys we have right now are indispensable to the team. I could realistically see any of them cut for the next guy off the street that shows up and works out well in Foxborough, and I'm fairly certain Bill sees it the same way based on the roster movement we've seen at the position over the past six months.

[Jvig43]

Ryan Mallet compared himself to being alot like Tom Brady today. God I hope this relationship works out haha.

[ElectricEye]

It would be so much more exciting if it didn't.

[ElectricEye]

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=6471962

Brady's foot is apparently healing well. Something that didn't get talked about enough last season, I think. Amazing he had the year he did with his plant foot broken.

[Nandoss]

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=6471962

Brady's foot is apparently healing well. Something that didn't get talked about enough last season, I think. Amazing he had the year he did with his plant foot broken.

Brady doesn't get nearly enough credit for how good he is. He gets talked about a lot, but they usually just say the random things you say about great QBs. He is tougher then he's given credit, he is smarter and he never dumps on his teammates even when it's clear he got the short end of the stick on a play.

[Nalej]

#62 J. Mayo - Top 100 Players voted by the Players

[FlyingElvis]

Mayo needs to make a big jump in 2012. I think he's a beast and will do so w/out issue, assuming health.

[Nalej]

I wish he was more of a turnover machine. 1 FF and 0 int's needs to increase.
A line of 5 sacks, 3 Ints and 5 FF's would be amazing

I'm aware these aren't turnovers

[descendency]

Marcus Cannon on the lump found at the combine: "It's completely gone (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/19/marcus-cannon-says-he-was-blessed-to-be-drafted-after-cancer-diagnosis/)"

PUP anyone? Maybe he won't be on IR.

edit: Solder, Mankins, Koppen, Cannon, Vollmer... as a starting OL for 5 years (assuming a young C isn't brought in) is a pretty stud OL.

[Nalej]

Friggin' sweet. NOW GET INTO THE WEIGHT ROOM!
Day 1 starter at RG... I can definitely wish

[nepg]

That running game is going to be amazing if Cannon can get healthy quickly.

[J255979-11nine]

That running game is going to be amazing if Cannon can get healthy quickly.

Isn't he still doing chemotherapy? He's a guaranteed member of IR this year.

[descendency]

Isn't he still doing chemotherapy? He's a guaranteed member of IR this year.

PUP might be possible. It depends on how his next medical checkup goes. But I'm with you, he's a 2012 starter and maybe leverage in the Mankins deal. (sadly)

[FlyingElvis]

That's great news. Hopefully he beats lymphoma (90% chance, statistically) and it sounds like he's doing well still, with little of the common side effects of chemo. If that continues there's a chance he sees action this year, which would be incredible. He has the makings of a huge sentimental favorite in NE. Huge . . . literally and figuratively. This kid is monsterous.

[AntoinCD]

Ideally I think BB will want Cannon to drop a bit of weight before being put into the starting lineup. A common side effect of chemo is he will drop a lot of weight, and God willing he beats the illness, it may actually turn into a good thing for him in the system.

The Patriots need their OGs to be great in pass protection and, especially their RG, needs to be a very good pulling OG. Dan Connolly had a few good plays last year in space in the run game. Im just not sure Cannon could be successful in space if he's over 350lbs. If he gets down to 330lbs and keeps his strength then he could be one of the most athletically dominant interior linemen in the league.

I gotta say im excited about him presuming he gets over the cancer

[descendency]

The concern for Cannon isn't weight. It's oxygen to blood ratios. Higher weighted people require a better oxygen to blood ratio to (e)motivate their motion, but when after chemo has run its course, Cannon will likely have lost weight.

He'll just be in poor shape.

[descendency]

Gronkowski had the 9th best drop percentage and Hernandez had the 2nd worst (both for TEs)

Deion Branch was tied for 10th best WRs in drop percentage. Welker was 10th worst. (Randy Moss was 4th worst over the last 3 years - though something tells me he didn't get enough targets this year to make this years list. The other three were Braylon Edwards, Dwayne Bowe, and Terrell Owens)

No Patriots RBs were in the top or bottom 15 pass droppers at their position, though Pierre Thomas was #1 (best) for this season in passes dropped percentage.

(All according to PFF)

Here's a Devin McCourty interview: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/26/interview-with-devin-mccourty-cb-new-england-patriots/

[Nalej]

50- W.Welker
62-J.Mayo

Three to go: T.Brady, V.Wilfork and L.Mankins. (My guesses)

[cmarq83]

Hey guys,

I'm a newcomer to this forum, but I've been a longtime lurker. I expect to be actively involved in the future seeing how it's the summer and I don't have a lot of better things to do since I came back from school. Do you guys have any advice to give a newcomer?

Also how do you see some of the training camp battles turning out? In cases like DE, MLB, and safety who do you see getting the most playing time?

QB2-Ryan Mallet/Brian Hoyer
3DRB- Danny Woodhead/Shane Vereen
WR3- Brandon Tate/Taylor Price
Blocking TE- Lee Smith/Alge Crumpler
LT- Matt Light?/Nate Solder
DE- Brace/Pryor/Wright/Deadrick/Stroud
MLB- Spikes/Guyton/Fletcher
CB2- Bodden/Dowling/Arrington
FS- Meriweather/Sanders/Page

[FlyingElvis]

Hey guys,

I'm a newcomer to this forum, but I've been a longtime lurker. I expect to be actively involved in the future seeing how it's the summer and I don't have a lot of better things to do since I came back from school. Do you guys have any advice to give a newcomer?
Don't be afraid to say what you mean. But you don't have to be a d*ck about it. lol

Don't let the anti-pats sentiment bother you. Just enjoy the view from the top. ;)

In general, just be respectful. There's plenty of awesome members here from all over the country & world. The dumbasses make themselves known pretty quickly.

Also how do you see some of the training camp battles turning out? In cases like DE, MLB, and safety who do you see getting the most playing time?

QB2-Ryan Mallet/Brian Hoyer
3DRB- Danny Woodhead/Shane Vereen
WR3- Brandon Tate/Taylor Price
Blocking TE- Lee Smith/Alge Crumpler
LT- Matt Light?/Nate Solder
DE- Brace/Pryor/Wright/Deadrick/Stroud
MLB- Spikes/Guyton/Fletcher
CB2- Bodden/Dowling/Arrington
FS- Meriweather/Sanders/Page

Across the board, rookies won't take over spots from other guys because of the lockout. There's not enough time for them to get up to speed w/no coaching, no playbooks, and no true summer work. Obviously, that can change quickly if the rich folk can hammer out a deal over the billion or so in "scraps."

Hoyer should hold down the #2 spot. He's talented, poised and - most importantly with the lockout - experienced. Mallet with no time to prepare, learn and get coached up will not take over the backup spot until late season, at best.

Woodhead will probably keep his spot initially, especially with the lockout. Mostly, though, it's b/c rookies generally suck at pass pro.

The media (and my eyes from late season) has me believing we'll see a bunch more Taylor Price. But don't be shocked if we see more of both Tate & Price and a bit less of Branch.

Crumpler isn't getting bumped by the rookie. Smith has Practice Squad written all over him.

The answer to Light v. Solder is simple: if Light is re-signed he starts.

DE . . . tough one. Wright has proven he will not be kept out of the lineup but his injury may change that. The rest of those names are great big question marks, and the reason many of the Pats fans on this board wanted a DE out of this very deep class.

Spikes, and it's not even close. He was very impressive last year.

I'm going to take the long shot and say Dowling over Bodden. I would love to see Bodden come back strong and studly, but his history is that of an inconsistent and oft injure CB.

Safety will be the same as ever - rotation, rotation, rotation. I still see Meri as the best of the bunch but he's got to stop missing big when he misses. Of course, his off-field nonsense may impact that.


Welcome to the non-lurking fun!

[Jvig43]

Pretty much everything Elvis just said haha

[cmarq83]

The media (and my eyes from late season) has me believing we'll see a bunch more Taylor Price. But don't be shocked if we see more of both Tate & Price and a bit less of Branch.

I hope to see Price emerge since he looked really good in that Miami game, and I was really impressed by the way he ran slants and hooks, unfortunately we didn't get a preview of what we really need him to be able to run which is deep posts, corners, and go routes.

Crumpler isn't getting bumped by the rookie. Smith has Practice Squad written all over him.


I could potentially see Lee Smith beating out Crumpler for a roster spot only because we've seen Belichick release an older blocking TE before to keep a space open for a younger guy when he released Kyle Brady. If Lee Smith seems hungrier and is in better shape coming into camp than Crumpler I could see him taking his spot because most of what Crumpler did was inline blocking which I think a rookie could handle.

Spikes, and it's not even close. He was very impressive last year.

He was, but I couldn't help noticing Dane Fletcher playing very well. I know he's an undrafted type guy, but he might have more upside than Spikes, or it's just my inner desire to have a Tedy Bruschi type on our defense again talking.


I'm going to take the long shot and say Dowling over Bodden. I would love to see Bodden come back strong and studly, but his history is that of an inconsistent and oft injure CB.


I think Bodden will hold onto his spot. He's always done pretty well in man schemes, and his injury last year was a rotator cuff one so I don't see that hindering his long term prospects. However, if he does fall to #3 He could be a surprise cut since he makes close to 6 million per year.


Safety will be the same as ever - rotation, rotation, rotation. I still see Meri as the best of the bunch but he's got to stop missing big when he misses. Of course, his off-field nonsense may impact that.

I'm hoping the RFA rules stay in place and we retain Page. He played more and more at the end of last year, and he has experience playing at a high level in the NFL. Furthermore he's young and has size which isn't something to overlook. I'd be fine if they had a platoon of him and Sanders, and tell Meriweather to hit the road. Since they traded a 5th round pick for him and placed a high tender on him I'd expect he is in their long term plans.

[descendency]

A bit of sad news for Patriots fans. Tom Martinez, personal QB coach for Tom Brady, has been given 1 month to live by doctors.

This is obviously terrible for his family. It's going to be tough for lots of people. I think it's going to negatively impact Tom (especially when you consider a month or two is the start of the season ... if there is one). He's been a huge part of Brady's career and has been there for him when he needed it.

[bored of education]

Question to my fellow New Englanders: Whom is going to the Monday night game vs. KC the Monday before Turkey day? THIS GUY IS!

[Jvig43]

Question to my fellow New Englanders: Whom is going to the Monday night game vs. KC the Monday before Turkey day? THIS GUY IS!

Can I come with you? I'll buy you a corn dog :)

[bored of education]

Can I come with you? I'll buy you a corn dog :)

I JUST MAY TAKE YOU UP ON THAT OFFER ;)

[ElectricEye]

I could be there, possibly. Currently on the waiting list for season tickets!

....the season tickets are years away. But the waiting list thing gives you the ability to buy tickets to pretty much every game at a fairly decent okish price.

[Jvig43]

I JUST MAY TAKE YOU UP ON THAT OFFER ;)

<3<3<3<3<3<3

[bored of education]

I could be there, possibly. Currently on the waiting list for season tickets!

....the season tickets are years away. But the waiting list thing gives you the ability to buy tickets to pretty much every game at a fairly decent okish price.

My uncle has been a season ticket holder forever, he also has some friends that are ST holder who live in a different state that sell their tickets 6 games of the year. I have decent access to tickets, sometimes its tough.

[AntoinCD]

Here's a beautiful piece of info I just found out. In 2008 the Patriots traded the 7th overall pick and the 164th pick to the New Orleans Saints for the 10th and 78th picks.

With the 7th pick the Saints took DT Sedrick Ellis while the Pats took Jerod Mayo with the 10th. Id say both sides are more than happy with that arrangement.

With the 164th pick the Saints took Carl Nicks who is now one of the top OGs in the NFL. With the 78th pick the Patriots took that all world player OLB Shawn Crable.

Looking back through previous drafts is depressing :(

[cmarq83]

Here's a beautiful piece of info I just found out. In 2008 the Patriots traded the 7th overall pick and the 164th pick to the New Orleans Saints for the 10th and 78th picks.

With the 7th pick the Saints took DT Sedrick Ellis while the Pats took Jerod Mayo with the 10th. Id say both sides are more than happy with that arrangement.

With the 164th pick the Saints took Carl Nicks who is now one of the top OGs in the NFL. With the 78th pick the Patriots took that all world player OLB Shawn Crable.

Looking back through previous drafts is depressing :(

Just look at last year's. That is what I do to turn that frown upside down.

[Nalej]

The negatives always stick out more than the positives.
So I rarely like looking back at who we wiffed at...
But like ^^^ said... just look at last year's class. All smiles.

[Jvig43]

Thought it was pretty cool the players voted Brady number one. Havent had alot of discussion around here so I figured I'd just throw that in here.

[FlyingElvis]

Ghost town . . .

Cool that Brady was voted 1. TBH, though, that list had some seriously questionable picks on it. McNabb stands out as the biggest.

[Nalej]

Yea, McNabb was but he was 100 though.
I was really surprised Brady was 1. I assumed he'd be two to that other QB.
I obviously think he's #1 but the patriot hate is ridiculous.

[descendency]

McNabb doesn't belong top 300.

And Brady was clearly #1. You'd have to be the blindest homer to believe otherwise.

I was shocked Vick and (Aaron) Rodgers were so low.

[cmarq83]

Alright so it looks like we finally have some idea what the salary cap is going to look like.

$120 million per team.. "feels like 130 million"

The pats are sitting at around 113 million with rookies left to sign, but some dead weight they can possibly cut (Kazcur 3.7 million). Now that we have a rough idea how would you approach free agency?

[descendency]

NE's roster is basically complete.

I mean, people speculate Randy Moss wants to come back to NE, but BB will not have 3 WRs with zero special teams value on his roster. Especially when two of them are way over the hill.

Our cap number could go down though, given that Mankins may sign. There is a feeling he might, but with the settlement of the lawsuit potentially making him a free agent, who knows... But either way, that's probably a significant chunk of change going off the books for NE.

I really like Manny Lawson, but he's probably going to be overpaid by a 43 team since he basically can do it all outside of be a dominant pass rusher.

[cmarq83]

NE's roster is basically complete.

I mean, people speculate Randy Moss wants to come back to NE, but BB will not have 3 WRs with zero special teams value on his roster. Especially when two of them are way over the hill.

Our cap number could go down though, given that Mankins may sign. There is a feeling he might, but with the settlement of the lawsuit potentially making him a free agent, who knows... But either way, that's probably a significant chunk of change going off the books for NE.

I really like Manny Lawson, but he's probably going to be overpaid by a 43 team since he basically can do it all outside of be a dominant pass rusher.

I agree with you that New England will be pretty quiet to start the period. I feel like signing Mankins early is a must. That line is way too up in the air to let him sit out until week 8 again. I also think the Pats need to start looking within to sign guys longterm. I know it's 2 years away, but I'd like to see them lock up Jerod Mayo longterm. In 2013 Mayo, Vollmer, and Chung are all free agents, and knowing how the Patriots like to put off contracts they can't handle all 3 at the same time. If they extend some of these guys now they might even save a little money in the process.

In terms of free agents I'd like to see them add another body at OLB. Kiwi, Lawson, Roth, or even Bryan Thomas when he's released would be acceptable. Another guy who I think would be a great addition who hasn't been mentioned around here is Damien Woody. He was recently released from the Jets, and he knows Scarnecchia's system. We could slide him in at RG and I feel like he'd be a better player than Connolly, and could hold down the fort cheaply for a year or 2 until Cannon is ready.

[Razor]

I have zero interest in Manny Lawson, he has no pass rushing ability what so ever. I'd love to get Kiwi and Roth though, Kiwi has the potential to be a beast for us if his body holds up. Roth played in a similar system and would probably be a better player than Ninko. A player everyone seems to be forgetting is Eric Moore who made quite a few impact plays despite not being in the system for long. With a bit more time I'm intrigued to see what he can do, he seemed to be very clutch late last year. Also, I want Randy Moss back, but I'm sure that doesn't surprise many people around here lol.

As for signing Mayo, Vollmer and Chung now, I completely agree. Unfortunately that's not how BB roll. The way he looks at it is that why should he pay more than he has to for two seasons to secure his players long term? While there is some logic to that approach I would like to lock up some of our young promising players now just to avoid any future trouble. However, I feel like the three players mentioned here would all be inclined to take a slightly below market value deal to stay in NE.

I'm not sure that I would want Woody back. Sure he has inside knowledge about the Jets and knows the system and coaches, but he just seems to be over the hill.

[descendency]

TBC wasn't exactly a pass rush monster in SF either...

[Jvig43]

TBC had one good year of rushing and that was it. I hated him when we got had him the first time, hated him even when he was doing well with the sacks. He isn't a smart player when hes asked to do more then rush the Qb.

[Razor]

TBC wasn't exactly a pass rush monster in SF either...

Don't even try to bring up Tully Banta-Fail! The guy has always been and will always be a bum. The fact that he's starting for us really speaks volumes as to how terrible we are at OLB.

[cmarq83]

I have zero interest in Manny Lawson, he has no pass rushing ability what so ever. I'd love to get Kiwi and Roth though, Kiwi has the potential to be a beast for us if his body holds up. Roth played in a similar system and would probably be a better player than Ninko. A player everyone seems to be forgetting is Eric Moore who made quite a few impact plays despite not being in the system for long. With a bit more time I'm intrigued to see what he can do, he seemed to be very clutch late last year. Also, I want Randy Moss back, but I'm sure that doesn't surprise many people around here lol.

As for signing Mayo, Vollmer and Chung now, I completely agree. Unfortunately that's not how BB roll. The way he looks at it is that why should he pay more than he has to for two seasons to secure his players long term? While there is some logic to that approach I would like to lock up some of our young promising players now just to avoid any future trouble. However, I feel like the three players mentioned here would all be inclined to take a slightly below market value deal to stay in NE.

I'm not sure that I would want Woody back. Sure he has inside knowledge about the Jets and knows the system and coaches, but he just seems to be over the hill.

I have pretty much accepted the fact that if the Patriots go out and get anyone at OLB who isn't a Rob Ninkovich stop gap type, it's going to be Manny Lawson. We all know Bill Belichick's profile for an ideal OLB and Manny Lawson is that guy. He's 6'5" 240 and runs a 4.4 40. His specialty is setting the edge and pass coverage which are both huge within this system, and by all accounts he's a pretty smart guy who scored a 43 on his wonderlic coming out of college.

I think we all know he's not that great of a pass rusher, but the Pats need another body at OLB who can actually be useful. If there is any saving grace to him it's that according to Pro Football Focus he ranked as the 7th most effective pass rusher on a per snap basis. Now we know not to take PFF at face value, but even if he's able to hurry the QB from time to time that would be an improvement. Bill Belichick is on record saying that sacks are overrated, and that is why there is a good chance Lawson could be here.

I like Matt Roth and Kiwi too, but to be fair they haven't been that much more productive since they've been in the league than Lawson. Eric Moore is intriguing and it's nice to have a bigger pass rusher like him to help in nickel sets.

In terms of signing one of those 3 longterm, I know it's not going to happen, but it would make sense to lock Mayo up longterm. He's already the leader of the defense and makes 5 million per so he wouldn't make that much more annually if you extend him. Give him a 6 year $40 million dollar contract and move on.

I'm not really sure that Woody is over the hill. He is an injury risk, but the Jets were still extremely effective running to the right last year, and with him and Vollmer on the right I feel like the Patriots would have something to build on as the year goes along. I'd certainly be more happy with him as a utility man than Ojinaka or Kazcur.

[ElectricEye]

I'll take Manny Lawson in a heartbeat. Without hesitation, even. I would prefer Kiwi, but I'm not sure the team will go for him for whatever reason. We've shown a tendency to ignore glaringly obvious solutions to the pass rush problem in the past, even though that's not to say Kiwi is a sure thing either. Lawson doesn't project to be a big time contributor in the pass rush, but at the very least he can do everything else and he still has a lot of upside and potential as a rusher just because of the tools. That's better than you can so for a lot of the guys on our roster.

[FlyingElvis]

Lawson intriques me. Anyone know if the 49ers actually used him as rusher? Throwing around sack numbers or saying he has no pass rushing ability can be misleading if he wasn't rushing do to scheme. Generally, I'd say no coach worth their salt would waste his talents if he was a stud rusher, but in this case it's the 49ers and they've had some ineptitude rolling through the coaching ranks for a while now.

[Razor]

Lawson has 14.5 sacks in his 5 year career. I don't care what you attribute that to, that's just not something I want at OLB - especially when he is looking to get paid. Lawson has tons of potential, and maybe he could live up to that with BB coaching him up. I don't know. But from what I've seen he doesn't use his hands well and has little or no power. That's why I don't want Lawson as a Patriot. Sure he gets pressures, but that's not really what we're after at OLB right now imo.

[AntoinCD]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/john_lopez/07/19/afc-free-agency-guide/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a1

Ok so this article on Sports Illustrated says that when free agency starts the player on top of the Pats wishlist should be...yip you guessed it...Barrett Ruud. You know the prototypical Tampa 2 LB who can't shed blocks for anything and would play a position where we already have two young entrenched starters in Mayo and Spikes, a versatile back up in Guyton and a really intriguing young guy in Dane Flecther.

Seriously how the **** do these guys get paid for this garbage???

[FlyingElvis]

Seriously how the **** do these guys get paid for this garbage???

It's just soul crushing, isn't it?

[Nalej]

I saw that somewhere else as well... I think ESPN.
Makes no sense. It's like they see "linebacker" and figure they're right.
Shame on them.

[AntoinCD]

It's just soul crushing, isn't it?

It's disgusting. I mean I know everyone loves to hate on a lot of guys in the media, but a lot of them have great contacts and break stories so I can't gripe too much. It's guys like this who put no thought what so ever into their article.

It really doesn't take a footballing genius to know that someone like Ruud doesn't fit in the system, or that the Pats are loaded at ILB. But hey, he fits the mould as a Patriots LB. Which translated means, he's a smart, slow, over achiever.

This honestly isn't rocket science. If he was looking for a guy who fits what the Pats want and would also be a bargain FA then look at someone like Matt Roth. He's an over achiever, but he also fits what the Pats look for at OLB(which is a huge need), and has played in two systems that Belichick has ties to-with Parcells in Miami and with Mangini in Cleveland.

[Borat]

Lawson intriques me. Anyone know if the 49ers actually used him as rusher? Throwing around sack numbers or saying he has no pass rushing ability can be misleading if he wasn't rushing do to scheme. Generally, I'd say no coach worth their salt would waste his talents if he was a stud rusher, but in this case it's the 49ers and they've had some ineptitude rolling through the coaching ranks for a while now.

Having seen every game Lawson has played, I can tell you with 100% certainty that he has no passrushing skill whatsoever. He has only a speed move and it's generally ineffective. Once an OT gets his hands on him, it's over. RBs handle him as well. It's been painful watching him attempt to rush. We all envisioned him as a passrushing demon and it never materialized. The team just gave up and only had him cover and set the edge in the run game, two areas that he accels at. He's not a bad player, just not a passrusher at all. I'd say two thirds of his career sacks are from QBs scrambling to his side for easy sacks. I wouldn't mind the Niners keeping him, but not when he wants to be paid similar to what sack-artists make, which is insane.

[Jvig43]

I'm surprised that no one was raging over the article NFL put out about how the pats chances of winning another super bowl are gone because we don't have any RBs in the backfield. Maybe they forgot we drafted two rbs, got good production out of woodhead, or the fact the law firm had a 1000 yard season.

[Nalej]

No need to rage when you don't take the article seriously

[descendency]

TBC had one good year of rushing and that was it. I hated him when we got had him the first time, hated him even when he was doing well with the sacks. He isn't a smart player when hes asked to do more then rush the Qb.

He is what he is, but the comment was about how he played a lot better here than the did there. I think the same would be true for Lawson.

Lawson could also fill quite a few roles allowing the patriots to keep an extra developmental guy on the roster.

And LOL @ Barrett Rudd.

[Jvig43]

No need to rage when you don't take the article seriously

I know at this point it's just laughable. Although we all know what won us those first two sbs was a crushing running game haha.

[AntoinCD]

I know at this point it's just laughable. Although we all know what won us those first two sbs was a crushing running game haha.

Antowain Smith FTW

[Don Vito]

Charles Johnson is a guy who intrigues me. He doesn't have a lot of height but that hasn't been a huge selling factor when it comes to our pass rushers lately. He doesn't have 3-4 experience but I think he could do it, he is very athletic and is probably the best pure rusher on the market. We haven't really had his name come up either so that makes him a more likely candidate then guys we've discussed like Kiwi and Lawson.

[Matthew Jones]

Anyone looking for a new sig? I just made a whole bunch of extras, so feel free to claim one of these!

Bill Belichick

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/belichicksig3.png

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/belichicksig.png

Tom Brady

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/bradysig.png

Deion Branch

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/branchsig.png

Troy Brown

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/troysig.png

Dan Connolly

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/connollysig.png

Julian Edelman

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/edelmansig.png

Kevin Faulk

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/faulksig.png

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BenJarvus Green-Ellis

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/bjgesig.png

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Jerod Mayo

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/mayosig.png

Jerod Mayo/Devin McCourty

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/mayomccourtysig-1.png

Willie McGinest

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/mcginestsig.png

Brandon Meriweather

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/meriweathersig.png

Ty Warren

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/warrensig.png

Wes Welker

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/welkersig.png

Vince Wilfork

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/wilforksig3.png

Danny Woodhead

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/woodheadsig.png

Mike Wright

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/wrightsig.png

Misc.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/goodellsig.png

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/ringsig.png

[Matthew Jones]

Also, let me know if you guys have any requests! I'll see what I can do re. other players.

[monson]

So, the big pass rusher is out 5 weeks. Will this change anything in Pats plans?

[nepg]

no. extra characters

[snowplow]

Tully is ok. But now maybe they can get someone better.

[nepg]

Tully is ok. But now maybe they can get someone better.
no. extra characters

[snowplow]

no. extra characters

what the hell you talking about? no extra.....

[Jvig43]

Tully isn't great and we don't have a pass rush to get affected by this anyway so quick response no I don't think it will affect us that much.

[nepg]

what the hell you talking about? no extra.....
They're not getting someone better than Tully. Whether there's a guy out there or not...it's just not going to happen.

[Matthew Jones]

According to Football Outsiders, despite recording just 3.5 sacks last year, Matt Roth totaled 24.5 QB hurries. Pretty impressive for a guy with the size (6'4", 275) to actually man the elephant here. He seems to be out of Cleveland now that Mangini left and they're moving back to a 4-3, so it seems legitimately possible he signs here. Would be able to come right in with an idea of what it is like to play in this defense.

[BradysKnee]

Preseason Predictions:

Nick Kaczur cut.
TBC cut.
Mankins resigned.

Matt light to Pittsburgh.
Ochocinco to New England
Cullen Jenkins to New England
Matt Roth to New England.

Which will crash and burn first? lol.

[nepg]

Why would they cut those guys? Kaczur looked good at OG before getting injured and is a really good backup despite maybe not being the best starting option. I don't see Matt Light not coming back for at least one more year.

[BradysKnee]

Why would they cut those guys? Kaczur looked good at OG before getting injured and is a really good backup despite maybe not being the best starting option. I don't see Matt Light not coming back for at least one more year.

Kaczur's salary is too high to justify. He's injury prone and average at best. If Marcus Cannon comes into camp I see no chance for him.

Light I'd like to see come back, but I get the feeling NE lowballs him and he moves on.

[Matthew Jones]

Why would they cut those guys? Kaczur looked good at OG before getting injured and is a really good backup despite maybe not being the best starting option. I don't see Matt Light not coming back for at least one more year.

Just to play devil's advocate...Kaczur is owed $4.38 million this year, which is really high for a player of his caliber, especially if he's not going to be starting somewhere on the line. By releasing him, the Patriots can recoup about $3.4 million. He's about to turn 32 in a few days and is coming off of a bad back injury. Who's to say that he will fully recover and be able to play at the same level he was playing at before getting injured? Also, I heard Matt Light was not pleased that the Patriots drafted Nate Solder in the first round, and it's possible that he could leave for more money/security on a team like the Bears.

[Matthew Jones]

Preseason Predictions:

Nick Kaczur cut.
TBC cut.
Mankins resigned.

Matt light to Pittsburgh.
Ochocinco to New England
Cullen Jenkins to New England
Matt Roth to New England.

Which will crash and burn first? lol.

It seems like Cullen Jenkins will probably go somewhere like Washington or Buffalo, and Matt Light is not a fit whatsoever in Pittsburgh's inline blocking scheme. Aside from that, I think you have a decent shot of any/all of those being correct.

[Razor]

Where have you heard about Light not being happy about the Solder pick? I agree about Cullen Jenkins, from what I understand he is going to ask for a lot of money and Washington are rumored to be very interested in him. I'd love to get Matt Roth, he's a decent player who could excel in BBs system. Nice scenario by Bradysknee there, I would be more than happy with that. But like RoP said, Light is a terrible fit in Pitt.

[Don Vito]

Light was interviewed on either EEI or 98.5 one night the week after the draft and he was **** faced and talked about the uncertainty of his future here

[Razor]

Light was interviewed on either EEI or 98.5 one night the week after the draft and he was **** faced and talked about the uncertainty of his future here

Really? Why hasn't this been a bigger deal in the media? This is the first I've heard of it...

[Matthew Jones]

Where have you heard about Light not being happy about the Solder pick? I agree about Cullen Jenkins, from what I understand he is going to ask for a lot of money and Washington are rumored to be very interested in him. I'd love to get Matt Roth, he's a decent player who could excel in BBs system. Nice scenario by Bradysknee there, I would be more than happy with that. But like RoP said, Light is a terrible fit in Pitt.

Here's what I heard: a bunch of Patriots were at a party together watching the draft, and after seeing Nate Solder get picked, Matt Light stormed out of the party. I believe it was posted on Vince Wilfork's Twitter.

[Matthew Jones]

FB Eric Kettani and WR Tyree Barnes fulfilled their two-year commitments to the Navy and will be returning to the team in time for the start of training camp. I remember Kettani being a very good prospect aside from his service requirement a couple of drafts ago, I wonder what his chances of making the roster are.

[Matthew Jones]

Extra Brady sig (haha):

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/bradysig2.png

[Jvig43]

I just want Mankins resigned right now. I doubt we will address the pass rush at all this off season.

[descendency]

We need to long term extend mankins because he's a huge cap number now.

[Nalej]

Agreed. If we're not going to address the OLB position then at least resign our best OL.
With that said, I wonder if we're forced to look at OLB (for bodies, at least) bc of the TBC injury

[BradysKnee]

Anyone think its possible we take Gholston? lol

[Jvig43]

I hope not. haha

[Nalej]

Why not? At the least, we pick his brain. At most, he averages 20 sacks/season, wins DPOY and we laugh at Rex the entire time.
That right there is worth the risk... how unlikely that is lol

[Don Vito]

Gholston will be a Patriot and will beast for us

[Jvig43]

That's just one of those things in life that would be too good to be true.

[Jvig43]

Also, would people rather have Ocho rather then just taking Moss back, I think I might prefer Moss to Ocho tbh.

[Matthew Jones]

Also, would people rather have Ocho rather then just taking Moss back, I think I might prefer Moss to Ocho tbh.

Based on how quickly Moss was dumped last season, I think it's safe to say he won't be back again. Seemed like Belichick wanted him out ASAP, presumably because he was about to become a disruption. It also seemed like the offense was more efficient without all of the low-percentage/Randy ratio throws. I think Ochocinco could be pretty good here - he is a friend of Belichick's and should know New England would be his last real opportunity to win something before he retired, similar to what motivated Corey Dillon coming over from the Bengals. I probably wouldn't bring him in via trade, but if/when he's cut by the Bengals he could come in and have something to offer here.

[nepg]

The only reason Moss was ousted was because he was purposely becoming a distraction. I think he still needs to cool off a bit, but I could see them letting him come back if his attitude has changed from when he was with Tennessee.

Really think Chad Johnson is the better route, though. That guy wants nothing more than to play with the Patriots. He already gets it.

[Matthew Jones]

Patriots to release CB Tony Carter

The Patriots have informed CB Tony Carter that they will be releasing him. The Patriots are estimated to save $480,000 of Carter's $490,000 salary. Carter was projected to get lost in the shuffle considering New England's depth at CB.

[Nalej]

Oh nooooo!!!!!!!!! lol

[proshoota25]

damn thats a huge hit to our secondary lol

[Matthew Jones]

Patriots sign Maryland TE Will Yeatman

Yeatman is 6'6" but weighs only 270 pounds, making him a candidate for the practice squad. He played tight end in college but projects as an offensive tackle in the NFL. The Patriots have historically shown interest in TE/OT conversions, notably Tom Ashworth, Steve Maneri, and Nate Solder. Yeatman was a college lacrosse player, which might endear him to head coach Bill Belichick.

[Matthew Jones]

Boston College LB Mark Herzlich signs with New York Giants

This isn't exactly Patriots-related, but considering Herzlich was a local favorite on the boards, I thought it was worth mentioning. It was rumored last night that Herzlich would be signing with the Ravens, but instead, he will be joining the Giants, where ex-Boston College coach Tom Coughlin is the top dog. I see this as a good decision for Herzlich - joining a stable, winning organization that could use his help.

[Matthew Jones]

Patriots sign Nevada DE Ryan Coulson

The Patriots have reportedly signed undrafted Nevada DE Ryan Coulson to a deal. Coulson recorded 55 tackles, 8.5 tackles for loss, and 3.5 sacks last season for the Wolfpack. He measured in at 6'3" and 243 lbs. at his pro day. He was named a defensive team captain last year, and projects to try and make the transition from 4-3 defensive end to 3-4 outside linebacker.

[Matthew Jones]

Just a note - I will only be posting the snippets on official news, not sure whether or not some of the UDFAs from yesterday are official yet, which is why I haven't commented on them.

[Nalej]

Thanks for the updates!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to RavenOfProphecy again

[FlyingElvis]

It's going to get crazy up in here!!

The next 10 days will be totally headspinning. I'm pretty stoked, even though we won't do a damn thing. lol

Can anyone explain the cap hit / penalty structure? I can't understand why everyone, everwhere keeps predicting Ocho's release. The Bengals exercised a team option to keep him this year. They could have let him walk - paying him 4M - but exercised the option and now have him rostered for 2011 @ 6M. I don't see any sense in exercising the option if they will then release him. Unless the league year / cap penalty / structure makes it a better move to keep him and then cut him, the Bengals seemed locked into either keeping or trading Ocho.

Charles Johnson is a guy who intrigues me. He doesn't have a lot of height but that hasn't been a huge selling factor when it comes to our pass rushers lately. He doesn't have 3-4 experience but I think he could do it, he is very athletic and is probably the best pure rusher on the market. We haven't really had his name come up either so that makes him a more likely candidate then guys we've discussed like Kiwi and Lawson.

Carolina has a ton of solid FA players set to hit the market. Unfortunately, they also have a ton of $$$ they must spend and all rumors/reports have them calling it a priority to sign their own guys.

[descendency]

TBC to be cut.

[ElectricEye]

TBC to be cut.

Linkage;
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4698229/schefter-banta-cain-to-be-released

Merry football everyone. Tully probably gets far more flack around these parts than he deserves(I'm probably as guilty as anyone, if not the guiltiest), but he was never the player we were asking him to be and that became apparent in a big way last year.

Count me in the camp that is excited about Kettani, if he finds a way to make the roster. He was a heck of a ball carrier at Navy and could also lead block with the best of him. Might end up being an afterthought, but he well could end up being a real find for us too. Been awhile since we had true fullback.

[Matthew Jones]

Patriots sign Illinois DE Clay Nurse

The Patriots have reportedly signed undrafted Illinois DE Clay Nurse. Nurse measured in at 6'2" and 261 pounds at his pro day, running a 4.98 in the 40 yard dash. Last year, he totaled 23 tackles and four sacks, as well as blocking two kicks. He had 5.5 sacks in 2009, and is projected to try and make the transition to 3-4 outside linebacker.

[Matthew Jones]

Patriots will release LB Tully Banta-Cain

Shortly after getting word that he would miss the next four or five weeks due to a recent abdominal surgery, the Patriots have announced that they will release linebacker Tully Banta-Cain, who recorded just five sacks last season. Banta-Cain was mostly used as a pass rushing specialist in the team's sub package, but did not find the same amount of success he did in 2009, when he totaled almost ten sacks. Releasing Banta-Cain is projected to save the Patriots $2.3 million, and they will be responsible for paying him another $2.2 million or so. His role in the sub package appears to belong to Eric Moore now, at least temporarily.

[BradysKnee]

Patriots will release LB Tully Banta-Cain

Shortly after getting word that he would miss the next four or five weeks due to a recent abdominal surgery, the Patriots have announced that they will release linebacker Tully Banta-Cain, who recorded just five sacks last season. Banta-Cain was mostly used as a pass rushing specialist in the team's sub package, but did not find the same amount of success he did in 2009, when he totaled almost ten sacks. Releasing Banta-Cain is projected to save the Patriots $2.3 million, and they will be responsible for paying him another $2.2 million or so. His role in the sub package appears to belong to Eric Moore now, at least temporarily.

One prediction down. lol

[Matthew Jones]

Anyone else interested in signing Jason Taylor? I feel like he would provide an upgrade over Banta-Cain in the sub package. Probably not worth playing in the base defense, but as a defensive end on obvious passing downs I think he could provide some pressure for us.

[BradysKnee]

Anyone else interested in signing Jason Taylor? I feel like he would provide an upgrade over Banta-Cain in the sub package. Probably not worth playing in the base defense, but as a defensive end on obvious passing downs I think he could provide some pressure for us.

Meh. Would much rather go after Roth or someone similar.

[descendency]

No thanks to Jason Taylor. If you think TBC was bad, wait until you see a washed up JT.

Mr. 8 5 is more than welcome in NE, but I am afraid he's going to require a current WR to be cut. We already have a lot of WRs who don't contribute on special teams...

[Matthew Jones]

Patriots agree to terms with West Virginia LB Anthony Leonard

Leonard is an inside linebacker who also has some experience as a 4-3 strongside linebacker. His measurables (6'1", 254, 4.89) aren't anything special, but he had a productive senior season, with 70 tackles, 6.5 tackles for loss, and one sack. He is considered unlikely to make the final roster.

[BradysKnee]

Anyone remember what Mankins was offered before?
Interested to know what a deal for him might add up to/

[descendency]

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that Mankins will sign his franchise tender and report to work this week.

[J255979-11nine]

ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that Mankins will sign his franchise tender and report to work this week.

The most surprising piece of news I've heard all day