New England Patriots Discussion

[ElectricEye]

Reiss reports that Brady and Taylor Price have been putting in extra work after practices. Hopefully we'll finally get something out of him. I'll believe it when I see it at this point though.

[cmarq83]

Reiss reports that Brady and Taylor Price have been putting in extra work after practices. Hopefully we'll finally get something out of him. I'll believe it when I see it at this point though.

That would be amazing, but I agree with you I'll believe it when I see it.

[Jvig43]

I still am amazed how great of an off season Price had and how little weve seen of him this year.

[ElectricEye]

Yeah, defiantly disappointing. If you can knock Brady for one thing, it's this; post Reche Caldwell Brady isn't just plug and play with receivers anymore. He's taken awhile to adjust to guys and learn to throw to them. He's earned that right...but it's frustrating in this instance. Price has been hurt too though.



But yeah, does anyone else feel like this game is more important for the Jets? I know it's SUPER important for us, but I really feel like we're running into a very motivated Jets team tonight, with how well they've been playing and how poorly we've played. I'm really not feeling super good about this. Expected us to split the series at the start of the year and they've got momentum on their side.

[ElectricEye]

....and just like that, Price is inactive. He should probably get Shawn Crable's phone number. I'm sure they've got lot's to talk about.

[ElectricEye]

We're also without Chung tonight. Hope you guys are ready for a heavy dosage of excrement at safety.

[Razor]

Ugh... It seems that we're starting Sterling Moore at safety tonight. This is going to be brutal...

[ElectricEye]

Honestly; good. It doesn't get any worse than what we've got. Fresh face at least keeps it interesting.

[BradysKnee]

I didn't know we had Sterling on roster. lol

[descendency]

Ugh... It seems that we're starting Sterling Moore at safety tonight. This is going to be brutal...

Is that better or worse than Delta O'Neal at corner?

[BradysKnee]

LOL at the patriots def intro.

[Razor]

We need to seriously think about getting Carter back next year. The guy has been a beast for the last 4 games now.

[ElectricEye]

Only if the money is minuscule. Can't count on him to keep this up all year with how old he is, let alone next season. Limits what we can do formation wise too.

[Razor]

We align in the 4-3 in the nickel anyways, so why not keep Carter around?

[ElectricEye]

I would like to, I just wouldn't pay him anything more than we are now to do so. If he can get that from another team(which he might if he keeps playing well), we should absolutely let him walk.

[Razor]

Of course, I don't want to break the bank to keep him. But he seems like he'd like to stay, and if we can get a good deal I say take it.

[BradysKnee]

I would like to, I just wouldn't pay him anything more than we are now to do so. If he can get that from another team(which he might if he keeps playing well), we should absolutely let him walk.

I think he deserves decent money. The guy clearly works his balls off.

[BradysKnee]

What a joke.

[ElectricEye]

I think he deserves decent money. The guy clearly works his balls off.

I would agree with you if he was 28. But he's 32...and an old 32 until recently. Not comfortable giving him a substantial deal to that kind of guy.

[ElectricEye]

Just an impressive all around effort today on both sides of the ball. The offense still looked a little off and I still think we need some maintenance personnel wise, but we executed so much better tonight than we have in recent weeks. Gronk is really starting to grow into a super star, if such a thing exists at the tight end position. Not turning the ball over helped quite a bit too, but I've never really been all that concerned with that being an issue. We've gotten some real bad bounces.

Defensively, I'm not sure how the hell we pulled that off. Everyone played really well, in spite of the fact we were DEEP into it. Heck, we were deep into the practice squad roster. I guess that's the difference a pass rush makes. Andre Carter and Mark Anderson played GREAT football tonight. Sanchez has given us nightmares in the past on broken plays. Those two finished them tonight. Ninkovich made the most of those two bad balls too.


I'm still not optimistic about the way this team is headed personnel wise, but we played real good football tonight. The toughest part of the schedule is behind us already, so we've got an easier ride than some if we can sustain it.

[Don Vito]

That was the best all-around performance of the season. We didn't run the ball too effectively but we were playing the Jets, I was just happy to see the defense play so well.

[descendency]

Maybe Bill will see this and draft a talented pass rusher...

too bad there aren't any in 2012.

[BradysKnee]

Maybe Bill will see this and draft a talented pass rusher...

too bad there aren't any in 2012.

I kinda think we should look at FA too for some pass rushers. We haven't exactly been evaluating the pass rush talent too well in the draft.

[cmarq83]

So I'm pretty stoked about the win. That was the first game all season where I feel like the defense played legitimately well, which was surprising considering the amount of Ventrone, Tarpinian, Moulden, White, and Moore there was. The offense got back into their groove which was nice to see and hopefully they'll keep it up.

I thought Sterling Moore played extremely well last night. I'm getting way ahead of myself, but I think he could be that UDFA that makes a few plays for us this year that we seemingly have every year. It would be nice to have another safety who doesn't massively F up every time they throw near him.

I think they need to take care of business next week against Kansas City. I think anything less than a 2 TD win is a disappointment. We have some tough matchups like Flower/Carr vs. Welker/Branch, Hali vs. Light, Bowe/Baldwin vs. whomever it is we call our CB's now, but we'll be facing Tyler Palko and a team that is really reeling right now. If we can get into the blowout mode I think we have a really good shot at going 12-4 and getting a 1st round bye. They need to play consistent though.

and also lots and lots of GRONNNKKKKKK!!!

[Jvig43]

http://boston.sbnation.com/new-england-patriots/2011/11/14/2560792/bill-belichick-profane-comments-new-england-patriots-nfl-news

I have to admit that I laughed at this, but don't believe it.

[Nalej]

-I was pretty stoked to see us get pressure with a 4-man rush.
-M.Anderson and A.Carter were magical. Can they keep this production up? I don't expect 4 sack games on the regular but constant pressure would be nice.
-Brady was off still a bit (missed a TD pass to Woody in the corner)
but he's pocket awareness was as good as I've seen it in years. Amazing.
-85 with 2 receptions. Good to see. (His first reception came off some sick route running. Cromartie was by himself searching for 85. It was funny to watch)
-Ninkovich played pretty well. (Sweet break on the ball on his 2nd INT)



-How's Chung and McCourty? (injury wise)
-Ihedigbo in coverage makes me cry. (and that's compared to the rest of that secondary)
-S.Ellis... What exactly is he doing? I want to see more M.Anderson.
-Run the mother-effin' ball!
-Cannon going on IR or being activated soon?
-This the last year for Branch on the roster?
-Is it me or has Wilfork regressed a bit in the 43? He's not bad by anymeans but I don't see him collapsing the pocket as much and seems to taken out a plays a lot with basic double teams. Could he be fatiguing due to the number of snaps he plays/game? I saw even Haynesworth pushing two lineman back and collapsing the pocket... not sure why I don't see it more out of Wilfork's Island (Anyone see he almost had his 3rd pick of the season off a tip at the LOS?)

http://boston.sbnation.com/new-england-patriots/2011/11/14/2560792/bill-belichick-profane-comments-new-england-patriots-nfl-news

I have to admit that I laughed at this, but don't believe it.

haha, I believe it, haha (Remember him yelling at D.Mason in game? haha)

[FlyingElvis]

Last night's effort was spectacular from the D. It looked to me like a huge "pride" game where they responded to several weeks of being trashed by any talking head with any kind of media outlet.

I have a hard time buying this effort & result as a weekly occurance. However, if they can string a few good games together we will quickly hit December and I'll be a lot more likely to believe.

[ryno626]

Any concern for a possible elbow injury for Tom? I can't remember who said it but I saw on Twitter that accuracy for a quarterback comes from the elbow while the shoulder generates the velocity. That could explain part of the drop off in the passing game.

[FlyingElvis]

Some sort of injury might explain it. That would be preferable, honestly.

[descendency]

I saw on Twitter that accuracy for a quarterback comes from the elbow

It comes primarily from the footwork, hip rotation, and general mechanics.

If you are throwing on the run, then you could argue that it comes from the elbow.

edit: McCourty's injury is rumored to be a separated shoulder which could have him out for a while. Chung - IDK.

[ElectricEye]

Eh, I'm not worried. The offense just really hasn't been in rhythm in general. I think a lot of Brady's accuracy concerns as of late have to do with defenses being able to disrupt the timing(and effectiveness) or Branch and Welker. We've also run into some teams who can get after the passer. Really think that with a few down the field plays(which we got yesterday), that would improve the timing routes and ultimately lead to Brady looking less gun shy.

[ryno626]

Jeff Howe (Patriots beat writer for NESN) said Belichick confirmed that Cannon is getting moved to the active roster today!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/bill-belichick-says-patriots-will-promote-marcus-cannon-to-active-roster.html

[FlyingElvis]

Awesome news for Cannon. He must be thrilled after his last 8 months.

[AntoinCD]

Great news about Cannon although with how Waters has been playing I don't want to see Cannon on the field this year. But definitely a great sign for him and the team going forward.

Oh and by the way, the Patriots defense is now exactly average by the most important stat. At 22.2 points per game(same as the vaunted Jets defense) they rank 16th and in the last 6 games have given up on average 20.16 which would be good for 10th.

[FlyingElvis]

Our D can limp on into December where I'll be much more inclined to believe in the Belichick Mystique again.

[Razor]

I didn't expect this defense to be ranked in the middle in any category this year tbh. I'm pretty sure that it's in part caused by the offense which has put up a lot of points and forced a "2007 effect". Anyways, I'll take whatever I can get these days. I need to see more from the defense before I start believing in anything. I'm sure the remaining part of the schedule will do a lot to infuse some confidence in the team, but on the other hand I'm scared that this soft schedule will mean an early exit for us in the playoffs once again..

[AntoinCD]

Yeah I'm not bringing this up to say "hey look our defense doesn't suck" because it really does. The eye test is the best way to decipher if a team is good or not. However the doom and gloom going around by an awful lot of people is completely wrong about this defense. They struggle to stop teams going up and down the field on them but they don't kill the team by giving up huge scoring plays. And it should only get better.

Our defense plays the Tylor Palko led Chiefs, the Tim Tebow led Broncos, the Rex Grossman led Redskins, the Matt Moore led Dolphins and the Curtis Painter/Dan Orlovsky led Colts. Plus Ryan Fitzpatrick has really regressed in the last few weeks. The only above average QB they still play is Vick and he could be good Vick or bad Vick.

To put it simply, I would be very surprised if they finished lower than 25th in the NFL for passing yards allowed and should be close to top ten for points allowed.

[descendency]

The defense has been bad, but it's been against good teams.

I can't blame them for not looking totally amazing given the competition.

Everyone gets a chance to play good and bad teams.

[AntoinCD]

The defense has been bad, but it's been against good teams.

I can't blame them for not looking totally amazing given the competition.

Everyone gets a chance to play good and bad teams.

Yeah Fitzpatrick on his hot streak with the Bills, the Cowboys, the Giants, the Steelers and the Chargers. All those teams can pass the ball on pretty much anybody. The only disappointing weeks passing wise were the Dolphins in week one and both games against NYJ. But even though they gave up 309yds to Sanchez on Sunday they stood up when it mattered and played prevent most of the fourth quarter allowing the underneath stuff.

McCourty has been poor this year and clearly Ihedigbo and Sterling Moore shouldn't be starting for anyone, but it really hasn't been as bad as people in the media and on here have been making out.

[Razor]

I actually think that McCourty has bounced back pretty well after we switched back to more zone coverage. It was pretty obvious that we don't have the personnel for man coverage despite the fact that McCourty looked very good in man last year. Arrington has also looked pretty good in zone eve on the outside. I still want another corner though, hopefully someone like Hosley falls come april.

[AntoinCD]

I actually think that McCourty has bounced back pretty well after we switched back to more zone coverage. It was pretty obvious that we don't have the personnel for man coverage despite the fact that McCourty looked very good in man last year. Arrington has also looked pretty good in zone eve on the outside. I still want another corner though, hopefully someone like Hosley falls come april.

Against the Jets before he got hurt he looked a little shaky. I think it was the first play of the game, but it appeared he had very good coverage on Holmes until Holmes stopped on his comeback route and McCourty got turned around and gave up the easy completion. He has great make up speed to close on plays and not give up huge plays but his technique on either in or out breaking routes has been suspect. I'd prefer to see him play more physical as well

[Razor]

Yeah, he didn't look like he had good awareness on that play. But his overall play has improved a lot since the first four games or so. The again, it couldn't get much worse I suspect...

[nepg]

I know it's Tyler Palko, but Baldwin & Bowe worry the crap out of me this week. If the Pats can't get pressure and the Chiefs aren't ******* stupid with their gameplan, things could get rough. Granted, I think the Chiefs will be too scared to pull out all the stops and abuse the CLEAR advantage they have (as they've done the past 3 weeks)...

[descendency]

Under rated performers so far?

Kyle Arrington and Brian Waters come to mind.

[nepg]

Waters has been awesome. He's so much better as a RG than LG.

[Jvig43]

I know it's Tyler Palko, but Baldwin & Bowe worry the crap out of me this week. If the Pats can't get pressure and the Chiefs aren't ******* stupid with their gameplan, things could get rough. Granted, I think the Chiefs will be too scared to pull out all the stops and abuse the CLEAR advantage they have (as they've done the past 3 weeks)...

They lost to the Dolphins, I think were all set lol. And I'm not one for looking past teams either.

[AntoinCD]

The Chiefs shouldn't be able to run the ball. If Haley is happy putting it all on Palko to throw 30+ times then I'm all for it.

The Chiefs defense doesn't scare me either. They have 9 sacks all year. If we can stop Hali then nobody else is much of a worry. Brady should have time to cut them apart. I'm honestly expecting a pretty easy win and I seldom think that coming up to games.

[Blackluck]

The Eagles released Jarred Page. It'll be interesting to see if we pick him up (given our safety situation it would seem a no brainer.) As for the Chiefs game, no game is a gimme but here's hoping it's over by the half :)

Completely unrelated but love this write up about Gronkowsi: (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/9759/the-fabulous-the-flops-of-week-10)

The Jets have some of the best linebackers and cornerbacks in the league, but they really struggle to cover Gronkowski. How bad of a mismatch was Gronkowski? The Jets actually moved Darrelle Revis off of Wes Welker to cover Gronkowski at times during the second half. The only other tight end in the league that Revis sees reps against is Antonio Gates. Gronkowski was 8-of-11 for 113 yards with two touchdowns, and if not for a stray footstep in the end zone, it would have been three. What he's doing as a red zone threat is unprecedented; teams know the Patriots are going to go to him and still don't seem to have a prayer of stopping him. Gronkowski is now two touchdowns away from becoming just the second tight end in NFL history to score 10 or more touchdowns in back-to-back seasons, a distinction he will also solely share with Gates. And keep in mind that no tight end has ever been able to score more than 10 touchdowns in a season more than three times in his career. Gronkowski's about to do it twice in his first two seasons. This could be the best tight end ever, folks.

[Matthew Jones]

I heard that Page has been awful this year, but I'd welcome any safety help at this point.

[Don Vito]

I heard that Page has been awful this year, but I'd welcome any safety help at this point.

What does Sterling Moore not do it for you?

[ElectricEye]

It's all but guaranteed we don't sign Page because it makes way too much sense. We're above such rational thoughts.

[nepg]

The Chiefs shouldn't be able to run the ball. If Haley is happy putting it all on Palko to throw 30+ times then I'm all for it.

The Chiefs defense doesn't scare me either. They have 9 sacks all year. If we can stop Hali then nobody else is much of a worry. Brady should have time to cut them apart. I'm honestly expecting a pretty easy win and I seldom think that coming up to games.
Eh... I'm not all for the Pats' corners covering the B's against any pass attempt. If the Chiefs try to go conservative, they'll lose because they're just not going to run on the Patriots that successfully. If they can get Palko just enough time to air it out, they have a serious shot.

And that KC defense is no joke. Very talented group and Carr/Flowers might be the best duo in the league this year.

This is a tough game for the Pats, and their only big advantage is Gronk & Hernandez v. the KC safeties... But that's been their advantage in every game this year and they've still lost.

[cmarq83]

Eh... I'm not all for the Pats' corners covering the B's against any pass attempt. If the Chiefs try to go conservative, they'll lose because they're just not going to run on the Patriots that successfully. If they can get Palko just enough time to air it out, they have a serious shot.

And that KC defense is no joke. Very talented group and Carr/Flowers might be the best duo in the league this year.

This is a tough game for the Pats, and their only big advantage is Gronk & Hernandez v. the KC safeties... But that's been their advantage in every game this year and they've still lost.

There are certainly bad matchups for the Pats like you've mentioned. Flowers and Carr are very physical and should pose a problem for us. Hali on Light is going to be a disaster, but overall there shouldn't be any reason why this team wins by less than 2 TD's. The Broncos ran all over the Chiefs last week without there top 2 RB's. Gronk/Welker are huge advantages for us. Also for the first time this season I feel like we have more talent on our defense than the other team does on their offense. It's basically Baldwin/Bowe and a giant pile of crap for them.

[nepg]

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter. The problem was the offense not protecting Cassel for any amount of time. The Chiefs should have rolled the Broncos. They've got a really good defense. The Chiefs have Breaston as well.

Basically the Chiefs' only hope is to chuck it deep and challenge the Pats' secondary to cover Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe (they can't) while trying to keep Gronk from running completely wild.

[BradysKnee]

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter. The problem was the offense not protecting Cassel for any amount of time. The Chiefs should have rolled the Broncos. They've got a really good defense. The Chiefs have Breaston as well.

Basically the Chiefs' only hope is to chuck it deep and challenge the Pats' secondary to cover Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe (they can't) while trying to keep Gronk from running completely wild.

I really think you give the Chiefs too much credit here. This will not be a close game of any kind.

[Matthew Jones]

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter. The problem was the offense not protecting Cassel for any amount of time. The Chiefs should have rolled the Broncos. They've got a really good defense. The Chiefs have Breaston as well.

Basically the Chiefs' only hope is to chuck it deep and challenge the Pats' secondary to cover Baldwin, Breaston, and Bowe (they can't) while trying to keep Gronk from running completely wild.

The Chiefs may have some weapons but don't forget Tyler Palko is going to be the starting quarterback.

[cmarq83]

"ran all over"... Not really. The Broncos had some success early in the game, but were shut down nearly completely after the first quarter.

Well regardless how the rest of the game went they still had difficulty stopping a team that had absolutely no chance of passing on them, and this has been a recurring problem all season with them. Be it Buffalo, Miami, San Diego, or whomever most teams have had a lot of success running the ball against that defense. I suspect if the Patriots try to establish the run they'll have success with it.

[descendency]

The Chiefs may have some weapons but don't forget Tyler Palko is going to be the starting quarterback.

As BB pointed out, Tyler Palko beat out Joe Flacco at Pitt. Just something to think about.

[BradysKnee]

As BB pointed out, Tyler Palko beat out Joe Flacco at Pitt. Just something to think about.

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

[Don Vito]

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

Point, meet the ultimate counterpoint

[descendency]

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.

That's an extremely rare exception though.


----

edit: if either the Steelers or the Ravens win as many games as NE the rest of the year (and both have soft schedules), they win the #1 seed (i'm ruling out houston, because Leinart sucks). Both must lose and NE must win out for home field advantage.

[Jvig43]

Timmy Tebow

[ElectricEye]

So the worst team we've had in years is rapidly getting put into position to make some sort of run. What a weird year.

[nepg]

Yeah, Drew Henson beat out Brady too.
Henson never really beat out Brady. The coaching staff just let Henson get some snaps because there was pressure from those above them to make it happen. They always preferred Brady, and it was obvious.

Palko's a lot better than he's been given credit for. He's a capable backup. As for Pitt...Palko was a pretty highly ranked recruit going into Pitt.

[descendency]

So the worst team we've had in years is rapidly getting put into position to make some sort of run. What a weird year.

We're basically guaranteed the #2 (at least) seed as well.

[Blackluck]

Anyone read War Room by Michael Holley?
Some interesting tidbits:

The Patriot scouts didn't like Malroney, but Josh did (his brother Ben worked in Minnesota.) Scouts thought he was immature and lacked a worth ethic. Patriot scouts also didn't want Chad Jackson: Bad route runner, poor worth ethic and a 'me' attitude. Urban Meyer however thought his athleticism would translate to the NFL. Jackson refused to watch film despite Deion Sanders and others asking him to do so repeatedly. BB made the call in both cases.

The Patriots were going to draft Steven Jackson but were suprised when Vince fell to them. They tried to move back up to get Jackson but the Rams didn't have as far to go.

Thomas Dimritoff is really close with Pioli and still with BB. Dimritoff actually called Belichick to get feedback on his plan to move way up and draft Jones. BB said he wouldn't do it, as he thought Jones' hands were too inconsistent and could get comparable value by taking Baldwin.

Also BB doesn't care about reaches when he really wants a player: Zoltan and Volmer being prime examples. I was hoping the book would delve into Belichick's aversion to drafting pass rushers but no such luck :)

[BradysKnee]

Man, getting Wilfork + Jackson would've been sweet. lol

[bored of education]

I really think you give the Chiefs too much credit here. This will not be a close game of any kind.

I may disagree with you here sir. I am the biggest Chiefs homer ever, well one of about 16.5 million Chiefs homers. But to say they will steamroll and say the game will not be close of any kind is a bit ********.

You know what BB and his staff over the last 12 years has emphasized right? You have watched and diagnosed every game since BB took over? I have, several times over. The biggest thing BB focuses on are match ups and exploiting the weaknesses of the other team or shutting down their greatest strength. Their is no greater coach in the history of the game than BB at those particular areas.

What are the Chiefs best at right now and what are the Patriots best at right now. The Chiefs nothing really. Bug they have a much better coaching staff from top to bottom than the Pats, to me that inarguable. RAC, Haley, Gibbs, Pleasant, Zorn, Smith, Thomas >>>>>>>>>. BB and who else is on that staff? I don't even know? Obrien? Pepper? MEH.

I think this game ends up being the greatest of a 14 point victory for the Pats. Not an easy victory. Don't be shocked if Brady is sacked more than 3 times with at least 6 QB hits. Don't be shocked if he throws 2 picks. Im not saying those will happen. I just think the coaching up of an inferior roster as perceived by the ******** public of the world(which minus Qb I'd take the Chiefs any day of the weeeekk over the roster of the Pats) will be the deciding factor.

I am not making sense. I know for I am still drink from last night and being optimistic.

I am going to the game though! Who else is going? I will be in a Bowe jersey with a black hoodie underneath!


Justin Houston will rape your souls!

[BradysKnee]

I may disagree with you here sir. I am the biggest Chiefs homer ever, well one of about 16.5 million Chiefs homers. But to say they will steamroll and say the game will not be close of any kind is a bit ********.

You know what BB and his staff over the last 12 years has emphasized right? You have watched and diagnosed every game since BB took over? I have, several times over. The biggest thing BB focuses on are match ups and exploiting the weaknesses of the other team or shutting down their greatest strength. Their is no greater coach in the history of the game than BB at those particular areas.

What are the Chiefs best at right now and what are the Patriots best at right now. The Chiefs nothing really. Bug they have a much better coaching staff from top to bottom than the Pats, to me that inarguable. RAC, Haley, Gibbs, Pleasant, Zorn, Smith, Thomas >>>>>>>>>. BB and who else is on that staff? I don't even know? Obrien? Pepper? MEH.

I think this game ends up being the greatest of a 14 point victory for the Pats. Not an easy victory. Don't be shocked if Brady is sacked more than 3 times with at least 6 QB hits. Don't be shocked if he throws 2 picks. Im not saying those will happen. I just think the coaching up of an inferior roster as perceived by the ******** public of the world(which minus Qb I'd take the Chiefs any day of the weeeekk over the roster of the Pats) will be the deciding factor.

I am not making sense. I know for I am still drink from last night and being optimistic.

I am going to the game though! Who else is going? I will be in a Bowe jersey with a black hoodie underneath!


Justin Houston will rape your souls!

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k287907_stewie%20idiot.jpg

[cmarq83]

I may disagree with you here sir. I am the biggest Chiefs homer ever, well one of about 16.5 million Chiefs homers. But to say they will steamroll and say the game will not be close of any kind is a bit ********.

You know what BB and his staff over the last 12 years has emphasized right? You have watched and diagnosed every game since BB took over? I have, several times over. The biggest thing BB focuses on are match ups and exploiting the weaknesses of the other team or shutting down their greatest strength. Their is no greater coach in the history of the game than BB at those particular areas.

What are the Chiefs best at right now and what are the Patriots best at right now. The Chiefs nothing really. Bug they have a much better coaching staff from top to bottom than the Pats, to me that inarguable. RAC, Haley, Gibbs, Pleasant, Zorn, Smith, Thomas >>>>>>>>>. BB and who else is on that staff? I don't even know? Obrien? Pepper? MEH.

I think this game ends up being the greatest of a 14 point victory for the Pats. Not an easy victory. Don't be shocked if Brady is sacked more than 3 times with at least 6 QB hits. Don't be shocked if he throws 2 picks. Im not saying those will happen. I just think the coaching up of an inferior roster as perceived by the ******** public of the world(which minus Qb I'd take the Chiefs any day of the weeeekk over the roster of the Pats) will be the deciding factor.

I am not making sense. I know for I am still drink from last night and being optimistic.

I am going to the game though! Who else is going? I will be in a Bowe jersey with a black hoodie underneath!


Justin Houston will rape your souls!


The points in bold I don't really agree with.

BB is such an enormous advantage over Haley and the Patriots have the best O-Line coach in the NFL in Scarnecchia. There are also a lot of underrated guys on the coaching staff like O'Brien, Johnson, Patricia, S. O'Brien, and Fears. I love me some Crennel, Pleasant, and Smith, but the funny thing about those guys is that a lot of what those guys learned was under the tutelage of BB. The Patriots coaching staff could definitely use a guy like Crennel right now, but in no way would I take the Chiefs coaching staff over the Patriots.

I also think the Patriots roster is more talented at the moment than the Chiefs. I'd take every positional grouping on the Patriots offense over their counterparts on the Chiefs, and I'd take the D-Line as well.

QB- Laughably no contest
RB- No contest at the moment
WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston
OL- Richardson is laughably bad, whereas nobody on the Pats is close to the same liability.
DL- I like the Patriots rotation better with Wilfork as the catalyst.
LB- Chiefs have a very large advantage here no question.
DB- Same, Flowers and Carr are beasts.

I don't usually feel this confident, and probably shouldn't because the Pats kind of suck this year and always blow a game or 2 like this, but I'm fairly confident they'll win.

[Don Vito]

I'm going tomorrow night. Back home for Thanksgiving break, get to see the Pats on Monday night with McCluster, K Lewis, and Powe as a bonus!

[bored of education]

The points in bold I don't really agree with.

BB is such an enormous advantage over Haley and the Patriots have the best O-Line coach in the NFL in Scarnecchia. There are also a lot of underrated guys on the coaching staff like O'Brien, Johnson, Patricia, S. O'Brien, and Fears. I love me some Crennel, Pleasant, and Smith, but the funny thing about those guys is that a lot of what those guys learned was under the tutelage of BB. The Patriots coaching staff could definitely use a guy like Crennel right now, but in no way would I take the Chiefs coaching staff over the Patriots.

I also think the Patriots roster is more talented at the moment than the Chiefs. I'd take every positional grouping on the Patriots offense over their counterparts on the Chiefs, and I'd take the D-Line as well.

QB- Laughably no contest
RB- No contest at the moment
WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston
OL- Richardson is laughably bad, whereas nobody on the Pats is close to the same liability.
DL- I like the Patriots rotation better with Wilfork as the catalyst.
LB- Chiefs have a very large advantage here no question.
DB- Same, Flowers and Carr are beasts.

I don't usually feel this confident, and probably shouldn't because the Pats kind of suck this year and always blow a game or 2 like this, but I'm fairly confident they'll win.

I will concede to a lot of that except this

WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston

REALLY DUDE???? Without Brady Gronk/Hern are mediocre players. Without Brady Welker is just another guy. If you cannot see that then you are a blind homer.

Lets not be idiotic and think about taking those guys off the Pats roster and adding in Baldwin/Bowe and Breaston. I would take those three easily over your three. In a vacuum they are far more talented. It is impossible to see that right now since all you have ever seen are those three with Brady and Welker that one year with Cassel.

Bowe has been a top 5 WR since the start of last year with ****** ass Cassel and his 57 comp %. Give him Brady he would average year in year out 100, 1400 and 16. EASILY BRO! But his resurgence after the year in which he was suspended is 100% attributed to himself and Haley.

Why do I bother? Seriously. Anyways

If the Chiefs receive the ball and go up 3-0 after marching down the field and getting a FG I will GOOO BONKERZZZZZZZZZ since that would be the only way we will have a lead all night :/

[AntoinCD]

I will concede to a lot of that except this

WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston

REALLY DUDE???? Without Brady Gronk/Hern are mediocre players. Without Brady Welker is just another guy. If you cannot see that then you are a blind homer.

Lets not be idiotic and think about taking those guys off the Pats roster and adding in Baldwin/Bowe and Breaston. I would take those three easily over your three. In a vacuum they are far more talented. It is impossible to see that right now since all you have ever seen are those three with Brady and Welker that one year with Cassel.

Bowe has been a top 5 WR since the start of last year with ****** ass Cassel and his 57 comp %. Give him Brady he would average year in year out 100, 1400 and 16. EASILY BRO! But his resurgence after the year in which he was suspended is 100% attributed to himself and Haley.

Why do I bother? Seriously. Anyways

If the Chiefs receive the ball and go up 3-0 after marching down the field and getting a FG I will GOOO BONKERZZZZZZZZZ since that would be the only way we will have a lead all night :/

I'll give you Hernandez and maybe concede that Welker is definitely a system guy(but even in Miami was better than mediocre), but to say Gronk would be mediocre in any other team is frankly ridiculous. This is a guy who would have been a sure fire first round pick had his medical checked out.

Brady actually does similar things with Gronk that he did with Randy Moss. If he's covered he's not really covered. Brady just throws it up there and lets him compete for the ball and 99 times out of 100 he'll come down with it.

Gronk has elite size, very good speed for someone his size, tremendous hands, a huge catching radius, is one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL and is a fantastic route runner. There is nothing mediocre about him.

[cmarq83]

I will concede to a lot of that except this

WR/TE- Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Baldwin/Breaston

REALLY DUDE???? Without Brady Gronk/Hern are mediocre players. Without Brady Welker is just another guy. If you cannot see that then you are a blind homer.

Lets not be idiotic and think about taking those guys off the Pats roster and adding in Baldwin/Bowe and Breaston. I would take those three easily over your three. In a vacuum they are far more talented. It is impossible to see that right now since all you have ever seen are those three with Brady and Welker that one year with Cassel.

Bowe has been a top 5 WR since the start of last year with ****** ass Cassel and his 57 comp %. Give him Brady he would average year in year out 100, 1400 and 16. EASILY BRO! But his resurgence after the year in which he was suspended is 100% attributed to himself and Haley.

Why do I bother? Seriously. Anyways

If the Chiefs receive the ball and go up 3-0 after marching down the field and getting a FG I will GOOO BONKERZZZZZZZZZ since that would be the only way we will have a lead all night :/

Welker is the top slot WR in the NFL by an enormous margin. Week in and week out he's a first down machine. You don't get 120 catches a year by accident. Sure there are guys who make the sexy plays down the field, but this guy does his damage every week no matter who is on him. His agility is off the charts, is an underrated blocker, has excellent hands, and is extremely tough after the catch. Bowe is a great receiver no doubt, but I'd take Welker over him and that isn't a homer argument to make.

In terms of the rest of the group, you have Gronk who if you haven't been watching has a stake in the best TE argument. Brady has an unreal rating throwing in his direction it's like 135. He'd be good regardless of who is throwing him the ball.

Hernandez has first round type talent as well.

So yes I stand by my argument that Welker/Gronkowski/Hernandez> Bowe/Breaston/Baldwin. They might not be quite as dangerous vertically as the Chiefs group, but as a unit I'd take them 10 out of 10 times.

[cmarq83]

I don't usually get all that homerish, but to say that 2 of the 4 players who are elite aren't because they have Brady throwing to them is just plain stupid.

[bored of education]

So I sobbered up and I dont remember typing any of that I SWEAR D:

[nepg]

boe's trollin :(

[bored of education]

I wish good health Monday night to both teams.

It will be interesting how the Chiefs line up on D. I envision some 2-3-6 2-4-6, 3-3-5 set ups. Keep athleticism out there with Gilbery and Bailey who are much more conditioned for the no huddle/hurry up.


:D GOOD LUCK GUYS :)D

[descendency]

Jim Zorn is the single worst playcaller I've ever seen. I don't even know if I'd want him in the building.

That said, I think the Chiefs will find a way to make it a competitive game.

If the patriots do win in a blowout, it's because Belichick basically perfected their defense with Romeo when he was in NE. Tom Brady basically practices against it daily in NE.

[AntoinCD]

McCourty ruled out for this evening's game. I'm kinda glad. I'd prefer him to get fully healthy and come back when we need him. He shouldn't be missed against Tyler Palko

[nepg]

Jim Zorn is the single worst playcaller I've ever seen. I don't even know if I'd want him in the building.

That said, I think the Chiefs will find a way to make it a competitive game.

If the patriots do win in a blowout, it's because Belichick basically perfected their defense with Romeo when he was in NE. Tom Brady basically practices against it daily in NE.
Bill Muir calls the plays. Zorn is just the QB coach.

[FlyingElvis]

Getting pretty damned excited.

It is even more fun with a big week in my higher buyin $$$ fantasy league. I am down right now with Welker and Gronk to go and my opponent has BJGE. Let's go passing O!!!!



tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick

[vidae]

Good luck out there tonight guys. You're going to need it. We're about to UNLEASH THE PALKO!

[ElectricEye]

Thing that makes me nervous about tonight is the size the Chiefs have with their backs and receivers. All three primary targets in the passing game are over 6 feet, with Bowe and Baldwin being greatly in excess of. Battle outright huge for a back at 6'2 238. We've had problems with those types of guys before on defense.

We also need to slow Tamba Hali down. We let Demarcus Ware and Woodley make huge impacts in our respective losses.

[Jvig43]

We didn't lose to the cowboys tho....... haha

[ElectricEye]

Yeah, my mistake there. I was typing while I was thinking haha. But still, we've been inconsistent blocking outside rushers in the 3-4.

[nepg]

Warned you guys.

[Jvig43]

Of course the one time ever I say I have no worries about this ga,e, and we should run over them were only up one score at half. So lame. In other news however, defense has been pretty consistent, and of course

Gronk <3

[nepg]

So lucky that Palko has been slightly off on a few throws and the Chiefs have committed penalties. All the Chiefs have to do is throw it deep to Baldwin & Bowe and there's nothing the Pats can do about it.

[Jvig43]

Well after a very slow start I have to give credit to our defense which played well all night, and our offense in the second half. Nice punt return by Edlemen as well. Nice to see Vereen get into the mix as well with a couple nice runs.

[ElectricEye]

I want to take some time to digest this one a bit. Little bit of a weird game.


The defense is getting better with the stronger defensive line play....but I think Palko showed why he's bounced around as much as he has as well.

[Nalej]

Give M. Anderson some love. He's balling right now.

[Jvig43]

Same with Carter. Carter has really been making his presence known. I really hope we can get our secondary healthy for January.

[descendency]

If they could blitz a linebacker or two, that pass rush could be fierce. . .

[ElectricEye]

It was nice to see Cannon out there tonight...but damn does it look awkward to see a guy that rotund at tackle haha. Not saying anything about his level of play. He did alright in a small sample size, but he certainly doesn't look like a tackle haha.

[descendency]

He didn't look much like a tackle at TCU, but he played well at tackle.

edit: He was described as the most graceful 360 pounds you will ever see.

[ElectricEye]

He's defiantly light on his feet. I've seen him pull and play in space pretty well. I'm just not sure that's the best place to utilize him. He's got potential at tackle, but he could be that much better inside. We'll have to see how this offensive line group shakes out with Vollmer not looking so hot and Light going down. Solder looked very good early in the year, but hasn't been playing much and has been fairly inconsistent when he has.


Our offensive line as a whole has been playing bad lately. Light and Vollmer got embarrassed a few times today.

[nepg]

They have him at RT because he hasn't had time to work at G. They'll need the off-season to do that.

[ElectricEye]

They have him at RT because he hasn't had time to work at G. They'll need the off-season to do that.

He's obviously going to be more comfortable at tackle right now, talking more long term. I'm not sure the team knows what to do with him yet. BB has said he thinks he can play both positions in the one time he's ever revealed anything in an interview ever. We're projected to have a bigger need at guard after Waters moved on, but Solder isn't a sure thing and Vollmer's level of play has fallen off considerably. Interesting situation going forward.

[nepg]

They'll put him at G. They just can't put him there at this point. Still needs a lot of work.

[Don Vito]

Edelman>McCourty

[nepg]

Yeah, Edelman has been no joke as a corner. It's pretty remarkable, actually.

[Don Vito]

I'm pretty sure he was playing a nickle LB type role tonight at one point too. Between the end of the Jets game and tonight I think he should be given regular snaps on defense, he has looked that good.

[BradysKnee]

He's defiantly light on his feet. I've seen him pull and play in space pretty well. I'm just not sure that's the best place to utilize him. He's got potential at tackle, but he could be that much better inside. We'll have to see how this offensive line group shakes out with Vollmer not looking so hot and Light going down. Solder looked very good early in the year, but hasn't been playing much and has been fairly inconsistent when he has.


Our offensive line as a whole has been playing bad lately. Light and Vollmer got embarrassed a few times today.

I thought Solder looked great overall this year tobe honest. He's a rookie, he isnt going to be all-pro yet, but i think he's probably been our best tackle.

[Razor]

Our offensive line as a whole has been playing bad lately. Light and Vollmer got embarrassed a few times today.

I think you're being a bit hard on Vollmer there. He got abused by Hali on that one play, but other than that he was alright. He's giving up some pressure these days, but I'm pretty sure that's because of his back injury. You don't just make back pains go away. Trust me, I know.. On the other hand, I was screaming and yelling at Matt Light. I was actually cheering when he went down because I knew that meant I probably don't have to suffer any more of his ineptitude at LT. I can't wait until he's not in NE any longer.

[Jvig43]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one cheering when Light went down. feelslikeascumbag

[nepg]

When the Chiefs bring Hali & Houston, they're near impossible to stop. The OL had a couple bad plays, but did well overall against two rashly good pass rushers.

[Razor]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one cheering when Light went down. feelslikeascumbag

Yeah, I kinda felt like a dick when I was cheering as well... But still, Matt Light sucks and I don't want him "protecting" Tom Brady.

[BradysKnee]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one cheering when Light went down. feelslikeascumbag

lol I was relieved when Light went down.

Here's a thought for everyone, if we made the SB do we have a chance against GB?

[Razor]

lol I was relieved when Light went down.

Here's a thought for everyone, if we made the SB do we have a chance against GB?

I wouldn't write us off, but I think we'd have a hard time stopping that offense. Then again, that's what people said in 2001.

[Jvig43]

Rodgers would **** all over our defense. Unless Carter got us like ten sacks. But no, we wouldn't have a chance.

[ElectricEye]

I think you're being a bit hard on Vollmer there. He got abused by Hali on that one play, but other than that he was alright. He's giving up some pressure these days, but I'm pretty sure that's because of his back injury. You don't just make back pains go away. Trust me, I know.. On the other hand, I was screaming and yelling at Matt Light. I was actually cheering when he went down because I knew that meant I probably don't have to suffer any more of his ineptitude at LT. I can't wait until he's not in NE any longer.

I think it's very fair to question Vollmer at this point. I'm not trying to throw the guy out, but I'm defiantly worried. I loved the guy as much as anyone else last season and thought the second tea All-Pro was well earned, but he just hasn't been the same guy this year. It's not like this was the only chink in the armor this year(and it's not like it was only one play last night either), it's been happening all year.He's been average to below so far this year, and yeah, I'm pretty sure it has to do with the back. The thing is, that doesn't make me feel any better about the situation though. He had back problems he had to fight through at Houston as well and it was a talking point about his status as a prospect. Back injuries can be devastating for offensive linemen, both in terms of missing time and limiting effectiveness. The concern level may not be high right now but it certainly exists.

[AntoinCD]

lol I was relieved when Light went down.

Here's a thought for everyone, if we made the SB do we have a chance against GB?

I replied to D-Unit's thread about how to beat the Packers and think the Pats have a chance.

It would be a shootout but the Packers defense is every bit as bad as the Pats, in fact they give up more points. Our defense couldn't cover the Packers all day and Rodgers would have a monster game, but as long as Mankins or Waters can help Connolly out with Raji then Brady shouldn't see much pressure up the middle-they are really missing Cullen Jenkins this year.

The Packers have major flaws defensively. The Pats are one of the only teams who can go score for score with them

[FlyingElvis]

Interesting game last night, that's for sure. KC kept themselves out of the game in the first half and then we put them away in the second. Not exactly an inspired effort for the first 30 minutes, but we've got a sweetheart of a schedule ahead and should have ample time to get the D back to good health and build confidence.

Every game we play from here on out is December football. I like our chances under those circumstances.

Also, I just bumped the Gronk v. Graham thread cuz I'm a super homer. lol




The Pack can definitely be beat but it will take a shootout. 30 minutes of terrible offensive football like we showed last night would be a big problem, as it would likely result in a 3 TD deficit.

[Jvig43]

We really should be more concerned with winning a single playoff game first before we talk about the packers. It would be awesome if we could somehow manage to get the 1 seed again, but I think that's unlikely, I think the Dolphins take a game from us the way they're playing now + the fact we always drop one to Miami.

[vidae]

Did you jokers have enough of THE PALKO? HE UNLEASHED ALL OVER YOU!

Seriously though, good game you guys. Good luck the rest of the way.

(Accidently posted this in the Draft thread, so the TL can delete that if they wish. :D)

[Don Vito]

Did anyone see Kyle Love's block on the interception by Arrington? Jesus that was awesome

[cmarq83]

Did anyone see Kyle Love's block on the interception by Arrington? Jesus that was awesome

yup
tQxmWOEznQ4

[Razor]

Haha, yeah! Love's block absolutely destroyed that poor guy. Other than that, I completely agree with jvig. I don't want to talk Superb Owl right now since we haven't won a PO game since 2007. Let's get there before we start worrying about that Packers or the 49ers or whoever gets there. I just hope Pittsburgh gets knocked out before we have a chance to play them.

EDIT: Lilja was the guy. Iirc he didn't return to the game after that.

[cmarq83]

Last night must have been Bill Belichick's wet dream of defensive performances. Not only was he able to start 5 undrafted guys (Ihedigbo, Arrington, Moore, Love, Guyton), but he his scrap heap pickups were also productive (Carter, Anderson, Ninkovich). He even got to play an offensive guy as a nickel linebacker. Too bad it doesn't work out as well every week.

[FlyingElvis]

Last night must have been Bill Belichick's wet dream of defensive performances. Not only was he able to start 5 undrafted guys (Ihedigbo, Arrington, Moore, Love, Guyton), but he his scrap heap pickups were also productive (Carter, Anderson, Ninkovich). He even got to play an offensive guy as a nickel linebacker. Too bad it doesn't work out as well every week.

Well, it may workout that well for the next 4 weeks. VY / ??? (who is Indy's starter now?) / Grossman / Tebow are the next 4 opposing QBs and all those teams have less than stellar DST's right now.

[fuct91]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one cheering when Light went down. feelslikeascumbag

I believe when I saw him down I was saying "dont be Vollmer or Solder" "please be Light" and it came true. I think most Pats fans love to hate Light because he is so inconsistent at times. Then again I hope the injury isn't to serious.

I love what Solder has done up to this point and how they used him so far even though I was thoroughly disappointed when we drafted him because I felt we had more pressing needs on the defensive side of the ball.

Happy to see Canon back on the field after everything he has gone through.
Would love to see him be able to rotate between guard and tackle to give us depth.

Few questions:

1. When does the front office consider extending Gronk? After this year he has two year so I am thinking either this year or next.

2. Anyone else see a comparison between Arrington and Asante after 3 to 4 years in the league and how well they play in this system with this coaching staff? I feel like he might be even better because he actually can tackle and doesn't head hunt.

3. Did Hernandez ever have an issue with drops at Florida?

[cmarq83]

1. When does the front office consider extending Gronk? After this year he has two year so I am thinking either this year or next.

Probably not until the last year of the contract at the very earliest. They're not going to worry about extending a guy with 2 years left especially when they have to worry about Welker and Carter this year, and Mayo, Chung, and Vollmer next year.

2. Anyone else see a comparison between Arrington and Asante after 3 to 4 years in the league and how well they play in this system with this coaching staff? I feel like he might be even better because he actually can tackle and doesn't head hunt.


Not really, they're really nothing alike. Arrington is a pretty physical guy who likes to tackle, and is competent in press coverage. Asante is much more of a ballhawk guy who will give a cushion, but is excellent at playing the ball once it's in the air. Although Arrington has a bunch of interceptions, I think its more of an aberration which has more to do with luck than anything else.

3. Did Hernandez ever have an issue with drops at Florida?

If I recall correctly his hands were one of his better attributes coming into the NFL. I think it's more mental at this point than anything else with Hernandez. Sometimes he makes great hands catches, but since he's a big RAC guy I think he might be thinking about his first move before he properly secures the ball. I still like his upside, but for the time being he needs a contracted role in the offense until he regains his focus

[ElectricEye]

I really think the Hernandez thing boils down to space. He's just much more comfortable in open area. When he doesn't have separation or a place to run to, he panics a little bit when the ball comes his way, more of a catch and run, underneath type of target than the other way around. Some of that is coachable, but I think we're just going to have to accept that, along with some of the mental errors, as part of the total package.

[nepg]

I believe when I saw him down I was saying "dont be Vollmer or Solder" "please be Light" and it came true. I think most Pats fans love to hate Light because he is so inconsistent at times. Then again I hope the injury isn't to serious.

No one hates Light. We all love him. He's a good guy and had a great career. We just know there are better options available that are already on the team. With Canon healthy enough to play some RT, there are now 3 OTs that are better options than Light.

[Matthew Jones]

What do you guys think of Cam Johnson as a second-round option the Patriots could target? He's 6'4", 270 with long arms, was recruited by Al Groh, and is a senior. I have been really impressed with him this season and he seems to have the size we'd look for in an OLB prospect. So far on the season, he's got 25 tackles, 10.5 tackles for loss, and four sacks. Check out these clips of him against Miami's Brandon Washington, a legitimate T/G tweener prospect:

P8mGlveL8NQ

[Razor]

On paper I like Johnson, but from what I've seen I think he might just be Jermaine Cunningham. I don't view him as an impact player in the NFL.. I'd like to take a chance on him in the third or fourth depending on who's left, but I wouldn't touch him in the second right now.

[descendency]

I didn't see the "second" burst in that clip. The one that gets sacks in the NFL.

It's hard to see sometimes against athletic QBs, but most of those were with Harris in the pocket.

[FlyingElvis]

I believe when I saw him down I was saying "dont be Vollmer or Solder" "please be Light" and it came true. I think most Pats fans love to hate Light because he is so inconsistent at times. Then again I hope the injury isn't to serious.

I love what Solder has done up to this point and how they used him so far even though I was thoroughly disappointed when we drafted him because I felt we had more pressing needs on the defensive side of the ball.

Happy to see Canon back on the field after everything he has gone through.
Would love to see him be able to rotate between guard and tackle to give us depth.

Few questions:

1. When does the front office consider extending Gronk? After this year he has two year so I am thinking either this year or next.

2. Anyone else see a comparison between Arrington and Asante after 3 to 4 years in the league and how well they play in this system with this coaching staff? I feel like he might be even better because he actually can tackle and doesn't head hunt.

3. Did Hernandez ever have an issue with drops at Florida?
Gronk won't get an extension this far out. Hopefully they get a deal done before he hits FA & the franchise tag, though.

I was thinking the same about the Arrington / Samuel thing when watching him play Monday night. He is getting better as a player and better in the system, that's for sure. I still believe Asante is the most underrated CB in the league. I'm not sure Arrington will ever be as good as Asante when it comes to playing the ball. I still would love to see the Philly/NE connection on draft day bring Asante home this April. I doubt it would be crazy expensive - 2nd round pick, maybe? The 8.4 & 10.4 he's due in 12 & 13 makes it highly unlikely, though.



As for Light, I was in the same boat. Saw an Olineman down and basically was thinking the best case scenario was Light. I love the guy, but he's just too slow to keep up at this point in his career.

[cmarq83]

I'm not sure the Eagles just won't outright release Samuel at the end of the season. Those base salary numbers are very high for a team to trade for and pay out of pocket. If he were to come here there would have to be a negotiation of an extension to bring those cap numbers down. It's a shame he's such a wuss when it comes to tackling because with those ball skills I think he'd make a damn fine safety.

[FlyingElvis]

I'm not sure the Eagles just won't outright release Samuel at the end of the season. Those base salary numbers are very high for a team to trade for and pay out of pocket. If he were to come here there would have to be a negotiation of an extension to bring those cap numbers down. It's a shame he's such a wuss when it comes to tackling because with those ball skills I think he'd make a damn fine safety.

I haven't really seen enough of him with the Eagles to say, but in his time in NE he was never afraid to tackle and made plenty of big hits for a guy his size.

I suspect you're right since they had him on the market once Nnamdi was signed. The Eagles have the most overrated and the most underrated CB together on one squad. lol

[cmarq83]

He's not afraid to make a big hit on a defenseless receiver, but if a big running back or tight end tries to square up and go right at him he's not very good. He probably gets a worse rep than he deserves though. Still him at safety is an interesting thought especially since Chung could probably cover a lot of his deficiencies.

[BradysKnee]

You guys are nuts. Asante is a hugely over rated corner. I would not want him on this team period. He's got a bad attitude and cares about one thing. Money.

[nepg]

Asante did well in front of good safeties. Arrington is nothing like him. Kyle's interceptions are pure luck. The only credit I'll give him is that he's not dropping it when the ball is thrown to him. I don't mean to come off as harsh towards Arrington, he's been really solid for the Pats the last two years. It's just, as we all know, his interceptions have a lot more to do with luck than skill.

[cmarq83]

You guys are nuts. Asante is a hugely over rated corner. I would not want him on this team period. He's got a bad attitude and cares about one thing. Money.

I don't think Asante is that bad of a guy. I've met him on a couple of occasions, he's always seemed like a cool guy. I think dealing with the Patriots front office could make anybody pissed. He played out the end of his contract where he essentially made peanuts, after getting the guarantee not to be franchised again. Here and there he makes comments in Philadelphia, but for the most part there are guys far worse than him.

In terms of his skill set, I think he's a guy who was overrated, but has become underrated as time has passed. He's still one of the 10 best cornerbacks in the league. He'll give up some plays, but he has always ranked highly in CB efficiency ratings, and certainly can make a bunch of plays on his own. He's always been money in the playoffs, and that is certainly something we've been missing defensively since he left.

[nepg]

I still remember being completely outraged when McDaniels took Lonnie Paxson with him to Denver... Best LS ever.

[Nalej]

In terms of his skill set, I think he's a guy who was overrated, but has become underrated as time has passed. He's still one of the 10 best cornerbacks in the league. He'll give up some plays, but he has always ranked highly in CB efficiency ratings, and certainly can make a bunch of plays on his own. He's always been money in the playoffs, and that is certainly something we've been missing defensively since he left.

In the Superbowl vs Giants, the play before the "helmet catch", he dropped an gimme INT that would have sealed the game.
As unfair as it is, that play is the only thing I think about when his name is brought up

[nepg]

In the Superbowl vs Giants, the play before the "helmet catch", he dropped an gimme INT that would have sealed the game.
As unfair as it is, that play is the only thing I think about when his name is brought up
I think everyone on the defense dropped an INT on that drive.

[descendency]

I think everyone on the defense dropped an INT on that drive.

Maybe or maybe not, but I think it's very obvious that Samuel dropped one that 99% of CBs catch 99% of the time. Samuel choked away what could have been history.

[cmarq83]

Maybe or maybe not, but I think it's very obvious that Samuel dropped one that 99% of CBs catch 99% of the time. Samuel choked away what could have been history.

That is being a little unfair. That wasn't the easiest play in the world to make. His arms were fully extended over his head, it would have had to have been a fingertips catch over his head, and even if he had secured the ball he still would have had to have possession in bounds. I highly doubt 99% of corner backs could have made that play.

K36wgL4VLHM

[BradysKnee]

Maybe or maybe not, but I think it's very obvious that Samuel dropped one that 99% of CBs catch 99% of the time. Samuel choked away what could have been history.

I agree. I think alot of pro corners make that catch. I still hate Samuel and remember the moment vividly.

[ElectricEye]

You guys are huge dicks.

[Jvig43]

I'm not reading any more comments on this page dammit.

Anyway Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Pats fans.

[cmarq83]

sorry guys,

Happy Thanksgiving though

[BradysKnee]

Ditto lol. Enjoy the turkey :D.

[Nalej]

Happy Thanksgiving, guys!!!

[descendency]

That is being a little unfair. That wasn't the easiest play in the world to make. His arms were fully extended over his head, it would have had to have been a fingertips catch over his head, and even if he had secured the ball he still would have had to have possession in bounds. I highly doubt 99% of corner backs could have made that play.

K36wgL4VLHM

Why am I remembering one that hit him right in the gut? Was that someone else?

[Jvig43]

No it wasn't, I recall that play perfectly.

[Nalej]

Why am I remembering one that hit him right in the gut? Was that someone else?

You're not crazy because that's the exact same way I remember it as well. Weird.

[cmarq83]

I watched that whole drive that shall not be named trying to figure if I had the right play. All I can say is that was divine intervention. Seau, Harrison, Samuel, Meriweather, Seymour, Thomas, Wilfork, and Hobbs all ****** up big time on it. Harrison and Meri both had shots at picks too. I think we're particularly hard on Samuel because he was our best defensive player, but a lot of guys straight up blew it. Eli gets a lot of credit for playing well on that drive, but the reality is he played god awful and made one good read the whole drive.

[cmarq83]

Looks like Vick and Nnamdi might both be out on Sunday. I kind of want them to play just so we can see if this offense and defense can be tested and actually improve. This might be one of the last good shots they'll get to prove it before playoff time.

However, if Vick doesn't play that means they'll play Young, Moore, Tebow, Fitzpatrick, Beck, and Painter before the playoffs and everyone will be talking about how much the defense improved when in reality they just played crap. Then we'll be lit up by the Steelers for 40 in the playoffs.

[nepg]

Moore has been playing pretty well. Has looked a lot more like the QB a lot of the people around here thought he'd be than the ****-tastic noodle arm that he's shown in the past.

But...yeah...

I still think it's valuable to play well against garbage offenses. Confidence is a huge issue with that secondary. Look back to the Pittsburgh game. They had very good coverage all game, but no one was stepping up to make a play...jump a route...do something other than watch the guy run his route and catch the ball in front of you.

I'm perfectly happy with the likely easy path to the playoffs they have.

[Matthew Jones]

This is a non sequitur, but does anyone think that one of the most important things New England can do to improve the team this offseason is to hire more assistant coaches? A lot of players seem to have regressed this season, and it seems fair to wonder whether that is a result of the coaching staff being undermanned.

[ElectricEye]

This is a non sequitur, but does anyone think that one of the most important things New England can do to improve the team this offseason is to hire more assistant coaches? A lot of players seem to have regressed this season, and it seems fair to wonder whether that is a result of the coaching staff being undermanned.

Could be the case. I defiantly want to see some kind of non-roster shakeup, with either a GM or a defensive coach who can actually contribute something meaningful brought in. More assistants could be part of that too.


As far as tomorrows game goes, I feel pretty good about it with two of Philly's better players being out. Not quite the layup the Chiefs were because they still have some guys who can hurt us potentially and they play defense better than a lot of people seem to realize, but I'm still feeling pretty confident. I really hope the offense has a "breakout" game sometime soon. We've been effective most of the time, but it would be nice to get another dominant type performance to build on late in the year.


...oh, and for about the millionth time, Taylor Price will have a chance to breakout. He won't, but we'll all hope for it and talk about it and wonder why it didn't happen afterwards.

[AntoinCD]

Philly really doesn't match up well with us defensively. They want teams to throw to the outer edges of the field against their CBs. However their safeties and LBs really lack great coverage skills. I'm expecting a big game from Gronk and Welker and possibly Hernandez.

Their pass rush could be dangerous, particularly with the offense's propensity to take deep drops and have long developing plays, but the screen game has really picked up and we could hurt any over pursuit.

We could also see a lot more of Vereen than we have becuase his style fits what can hurt the Eagles in both the running and passing game.

[nepg]

We could start a pool on when Taylor Price breaks out. It's too bad Chad is super durable and pretty much never gets hurt.

EDIT: lol, didn't realize 85 is questionable. HAHA

[cmarq83]

This is a non sequitur, but does anyone think that one of the most important things New England can do to improve the team this offseason is to hire more assistant coaches? A lot of players seem to have regressed this season, and it seems fair to wonder whether that is a result of the coaching staff being undermanned.

Obviously if the Patriots were to bring in a big named assistant my first (but unrealistic) choice would be Mangini. He's a good defensive coordinator who is good at developing defensive backs (Samuel, Revis, Haden). He's just the kind of guy this staff needs, being an established former head coach who isn't afraid to go against Belichick.

If not then I'd look at Del Rio if he's let go at the end of the season. He has a lot of experience in the league as both a player and a coach. He is a linebackers guy who was a pretty good defensive assistant before signing on as Jacksonville's head coach.

[Matthew Jones]

It's probably a pipe dream but someone like Al Groh would be nice.

[ElectricEye]

I think we all know BB isn't going to bring anyone with any kind of name credit in on either side of the ball though. It would be great to see and even make sense to bring in someone like Groh, but it won't happen. Really unfortunate.

[cmarq83]

We did had Dom Capers one year though.

[nepg]

I don't think it's true that he won't bring in names. He brought in Capers not long ago and brought in Corwin Brown last year (thus, McCourty).

[ElectricEye]

We did had Dom Capers one year though.

Wasn't that more of an "observer" kind of thing? He was officially listed as "Special Assistant/Secondary", while Dean Pees was the defensive coordinator(who was god awful, but I think we're seeing now a lot of that was Belichick). No way of knowing for sure how much he contributed, but we certainly didn't do many of the things a Dom Capers defense typically does that year.

[nepg]

Capers was largely credited for the defensive play of the 2008 team.

[luckyjackaubrey]

Going to my first live Pat's game since Tommy Hodson was under center. 'Couldn't be more phsyched.

[Matthew Jones]

Going to my first live Pat's game since Tommy Hodson was under center. 'Couldn't be more phsyched.

Congrats! Make sure to take some pictures for us!

[Don Vito]

I am willing to wager that Bama safety/STer Vinny Sunseri will be a Patriot one day. He is such a Belichick type player.

[Nalej]

I would love to have Mangini back. Not sure how realistic that is since how butt hurt BB was when he left.
I hated him as well for SpyGate but that's died down and I love watching his segments on ESPN.
His subtle head nods when others are speaking stupidity makes me smile.
Him being a big Patriots and Tom Brady homer also helps his cause as well (with my perception of him, that is)

[nepg]

I'd love Mangini back as a Assistant Head Coach/Defensive QC (or some ******** title). He could resume his post as successor to Belichick.

[descendency]

I am willing to wager that Bama safety/STer Vinny Sunseri will be a Patriot one day. He is such a Belichick type player.

And, at the current rate, a starter in 2012.


Capers was largely credited for the defensive play of the 2008 team.

The Delta O'Neal Shutdown Corner year?

[Razor]

Philly really doesn't match up well with us defensively. They want teams to throw to the outer edges of the field against their CBs. However their safeties and LBs really lack great coverage skills. I'm expecting a big game from Gronk and Welker and possibly Hernandez.

Their pass rush could be dangerous, particularly with the offense's propensity to take deep drops and have long developing plays, but the screen game has really picked up and we could hurt any over pursuit.

We could also see a lot more of Vereen than we have becuase his style fits what can hurt the Eagles in both the running and passing game.

I think we're going to stick it to the Eagles offensively tonight. We'll be able to run the ball well I think, and the pass rush can be neutralized with screens like we used to do. Defensively I'm somewhat iffy, but I really think that our offense is going to take care of business tonight.

[BradysKnee]

No Dan Connolly, who starts at C?

[Vaylor]

No Dan Connolly, who starts at C?

Ryan Wendell

[BradysKnee]

Ryan Wendell

I was hoping they slide Brian Waters.

[Razor]

Waters has no experience playing center at all. Wendell is the best option imo.

[BradysKnee]

Waters has no experience playing center at all. Wendell is the best option imo.

Haha I kinda just wanna see Cannon at G lol.

[Razor]

Yeah, that's what I figured. As much as I want to see Cannon play I don't want to force it. I'm sure he'll get some snaps today.

[Nalej]

85 is out and Branch is banged up.
PREDICTION: T.Price gets his first reception and TD this week
Aso is their best bet to contain the beast that is Price but he's banged up as well.

:)

[ElectricEye]

Well, this is it for Price then. If he can't do it now, it's pretty much not going to happen.

[Razor]

Well, this is it for Price then. If he can't do it now, it's pretty much not going to happen.

Let's just wait and see how the game plays out until we make those kind of statements. No one is doubting Price's talent it seems, but it's been hard for him to see the field with the people in front of him. I hope to see a lot of him today though...

[Jvig43]

Im with EE here. We better see something out of Price today, otherwise I envision a chad jackson career with us.

[ElectricEye]

Let's just wait and see how the game plays out until we make those kind of statements. No one is doubting Price's talent it seems, but it's been hard for him to see the field with the people in front of him. I hope to see a lot of him today though...

Good players, players with a future, seize these types of opportunities. Price has had them before and squandered them, but this is far and away the biggest one he's gotten. What he's capable of doing doesn't matter if he can't get on the field and do it. I don't buy that it's been hard for him to get on the field either. We've been begging for a player like him to step up, shoot, Bill O'Brien has even been campaigning for it publicly.



Not saying I expect 8 for 150. But he absolutely needs to show something meaningful today for me to have any confidence in him going forward. It's a result based game.

[Razor]

When has Price ever had an opportunity like the one he has today? You mean with Hoyer in against Miami in week 17 last year? Or the few snaps he has been on the field for this year? Because I can't remember another game with this kind of opportunity. He needs to step up today, I'll give you that. But I'm not going to give up on the guy if he doesn't catch more than 3 balls or so. Welker is going to have a field day against these LBs, the same can be said for Gronk and Hernandez. Add in the screens to stifle the pass rush and there aren't a whole lot of receptions left.

[ElectricEye]

When hasn't he had an opportunity?

You've brought in a veteran receiver to have a major role on the team who flat out can't play. You've had Deion Branch run hot and cold all season and have stretches where he isn't a factor. You've had a stretch where Hernandez, a major target in the offense, was unable to go....and we all said "Look for Taylor Price!". The guy can't get on the field when we've been flat out begging for a guy who can do damage against man coverage over the top....we're ten games into the season and we still haven't been able to find a true third receiver. Really don't know how the argument can be made that he's just biding his time. There's tons of room in the offense for a guy like Price and he hasn't been able to find his niche. We've been down this path before with similar guys before, everyone has a few of them on their roster even. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Games like today when one of them gets pressed into service go a long way towards finding out what you have.

[ElectricEye]

Shoot, we gave Matthew Slater reps on offense earlier this year. I like Slater the special teamer, but if that doesn't say how wide open the receiver thing has been all year, I don't know what will.

[Jvig43]

Not to mention Slater actually got us some production out of the plays he got in on. If Price can't beat out Ocho or Deion for a spot, I don't think he's magically going to turn into some elite wr for us.

[ElectricEye]

Not to mention Slater actually got us some production out of the plays he got in on. If Price can't beat out Ocho or Deion for a spot, I don't think he's magically going to turn into some elite wr for us.

Or even a meaningful contributor. Can't blame him for Deion or even fully for Chad, but the fact that he hasn't been able to do a thing all year is bad. We cut a guy who put up 400+ for us(and hasn't done a thing for the Bengals as a receiver, again, that's how badly we need somebody to do something. A guy who produced a bit for us can't beat out Andrew Hawkins and Andre Caldwell in Cincinnati) to keep him. Not at all unreasonable to expect to see him give us something.

[Razor]

I think that we're just going to have to agree to disagree here lol. I'm not saying that Price will be the answer to all our problems on offense or that he's going to be an elite receiver. I think he has a place in the NE offense, and hopefully that's what we're going to see today. Traditionally we've sucked at developing receiver. I really hope Price is going to change that.

[Matthew Jones]

Calling Price a bust already is an overreaction. He is stuck behind two guys who have incredible chemistry with Brady and a receiver who the Patriots have invested over $5 million in. Price's rookie year was a redshirt season and this year he's battled injuries.

[ElectricEye]

Never said he was a bust. By definition, I wouldn't even consider a 3rd round pick who didn't work out a bust. Not holding his rookie year against him either, similar situation to what Vereen is dealing with now. I do think it's completely fair to question what his role will be going forward if he can't start showing something though. I certainly hope we're looking to add a receiver through the draft or free agency next off-season regardless of what Price is able to do the rest of the season, but it's always nice when you can approach something like that through a less desperate position.

Basically, if Price can't start finding a way to get on the field, it might be time to find someone who can. Not buying that the 5M we invested in Chad is a factor either. If there's anything we're good at, it's ignoring things like that and going with the guy who is the best for the job.

[nepg]

When has Price ever had an opportunity like the one he has today? You mean with Hoyer in against Miami in week 17 last year? Or the few snaps he has been on the field for this year? Because I can't remember another game with this kind of opportunity. He needs to step up today, I'll give you that. But I'm not going to give up on the guy if he doesn't catch more than 3 balls or so. Welker is going to have a field day against these LBs, the same can be said for Gronk and Hernandez. Add in the screens to stifle the pass rush and there aren't a whole lot of receptions left.
Yeah, he really hasn't had a chance to do anything. They're not going to bench Branch or 85 to see if maybe Price could do better. If they weren't a team that's winning anyway, they might. The only plays I remember seeing Price on the field for, Brady missed him when he was wide open.

[Nalej]

Yeah, he really hasn't had a chance to do anything. They're not going to bench Branch or 85 to see if maybe Price could do better. If they weren't a team that's winning anyway, they might. The only plays I remember seeing Price on the field for, Brady missed him when he was wide open.

Yea, the throw was way short. Maybe it was the pressure.
Or maybe Brady is out of practice is throwing the deep ball now lol

[ElectricEye]

Eventful one in this weeks edition of pass rushers we've passed on that the Texans took; Connor Barwin with 3 sacks and Brooks Reed with 1. Barwin now has 7.5 and Reed is up to 6. Pain.

[Razor]

Tiquan Underwood is on the field but Price isn't? FML...

[ElectricEye]

Tiquan Underwood was just on the field according to the announcer. That's absolutely an indictment of Taylor Price.

[Razor]

yeah. There's no getting around that one. The coaches can't be happy with Price if Underwood is in there (which he was)...

[Nalej]

Yup, I was thinking the same thing. WTF Price.

[Nalej]

Eventful one in this weeks edition of pass rushers we've passed on that the Texans took; Connor Barwin with 3 sacks and Brooks Reed with 1. Barwin now has 7.5 and Reed is up to 6. Pain.

Was that nut tap necessary?


edit:

Underwood with the drop. Wow. This just keeps getting better.

[descendency]

Why did Taylor Price change his name to Tiquan Underwood?

[ElectricEye]

Good half of offensive football, in spite of some missed opportunities and drops. Defense is looking pretty good on everything but the deep ball as well.

[descendency]

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5864/tpmilkcarton.jpg

[ElectricEye]

We found this gentleman though.

http://circusbender.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tiquan.jpg

He would be better off catching passes with his hair.

[BradysKnee]

TO signing is imminent.

[bored of education]

If they sign TO that would be awesome.

Why does Mayo never make impact plays like TFLs, PDs, INTs, sacks or anything? I understood why in the 3-4 but in the 4-3 he does not stand out ever.

[BradysKnee]

If they sign TO that would be awesome.

Why does Mayo never make impact plays like TFLs, PDs, INTs, sacks or anything?

He is rarely used inthat capacity. It's not him, its the defense.

[ElectricEye]

Why does Mayo never make impact plays like TFLs, PDs, INTs, sacks or anything? I understood why in the 3-4 but in the 4-3 he does not stand out ever.

He's overrated. Good player, but nothing special.

[BradysKnee]

He's overrated. Good player, but nothing special.

Completely disagree. He is the guy that sits back as the defense brings him the tackles. He is mr reliable for BB. That's why you so rarely see him blitz etc. He sits back and cleans up.

[nepg]

<3 Edelman on defense. He's their best defensive back.

[bored of education]

another db down :(

[bored of education]

Vince Young throwing some medicine balls for your squad, lining those WRs up

[ElectricEye]

Completely disagree. He is the guy that sits back as the defense brings him the tackles. He is mr reliable for BB. That's why you so rarely see him blitz etc. He sits back and cleans up.

You can find guys like pretty easily. Mayo has been hyped up as an elite player. He's a pretty good one, but not anywhere near an upper echelon linebacker in the league. We really didn't miss a beat when he was hurt at all.

[Jvig43]

Boe don't you hate the Patriots? lol

[nepg]

Great stop.

[Nalej]

Boe don't you hate the Patriots? lol

I was thinking the same thing. lol
Hates the iggles more?

[bored of education]

I dont like the Eagles at all. I don't hate the Patriots, I am a realist they are good but when idiots in NE area compare Mayo to P Willie on the regs is when I get angry. YOu guys at least know what you are talking about...most of the time ;)

[bored of education]

I take my frustrations out on you guys sorry.

This game shows why Deion Branch was a 2nd rounder. That is another thing, Branch was not an undrafted no name coming out of college lol

Shady is narsty, he is like the only Eagle I like

[Jvig43]

I dont like the Eagles at all. I don't hate the Patriots, I am a realist they are good but when idiots in NE area compare Mayo to P Willie on the regs is when I get angry. YOu guys at least know what you are talking about...most of the time ;)

Ah well thats more than fair.

[bored of education]

Sergio Brown, wow. Best play of his career, now retire while you are on top. He did enough to stop the pass. awesome

[ElectricEye]

Sergio Brown, wow. Best play of his career, now retire while you are on top. He did enough to stop the pass. awesome

It's a hell of a lot better than that awful business at the end of the Giants game haha.



....and Edelman should just move to defense. Much better at that, by the looks of things.

[Nalej]

If he did that, he'd get his own island.

[bored of education]

haha i love that avatar and so does Jerry Sandusky and Julian Edelman

[ElectricEye]

So apparently this Tiquan Underwood over Taylor Price thing is not an isolated incident.

[bored of education]

I was just noticing that as well. Underwood has some ****** hands and does not run that crisp of routes. Is it due to that one or two drops he had a few weeks ago?

[bored of education]

lol @ an LB trying to cover Gronk.

[BradysKnee]

I dont like the Eagles at all. I don't hate the Patriots, I am a realist they are good but when idiots in NE area compare Mayo to P Willie on the regs is when I get angry. YOu guys at least know what you are talking about...most of the time ;)

I smell a conversion prospect ;).

[ElectricEye]

I was just noticing that as well. Underwood has some ****** hands and does not run that crisp of routes. Is it due to that one or two drops he had a few weeks ago?

I don't know. The Price thing is just sort of weird. Bill O'Brien came out and said publicly a few weeks ago that he wants to get him more involved in the offense, and then suddenly he's inactive for the game. Price has a good combination of size and speed, but it's highly curious that he hasn't been able to find a way to get on the field...let alone make any kinds of contributions.

[bored of education]

I liked Molden a lot out of college, he was very raw but had amazing upside. The guy is a freak athlete, myself and toonster used to talk about him nonstop on irc

[Nalej]

Wait, is Price officially inactive today or is he just inactive by coach's in game decision?

[ElectricEye]

Wait, is Price officially inactive today or is he just inactive by coach's in game decision?

Wasn't listed as inactive and I saw him in uniform on the sideline.

[bored of education]

PI offense? WTF was that

[BradysKnee]

******** that underwood gets in before him.

[bored of education]

Mine switched to Tebow vs. P Rivers :(

[ElectricEye]

Holy ****, Ihedigbo actually made a play on a ball.

[Nalej]

Mine switched to Tebow vs. P Rivers :(

I'm in PA so I'm still watching the game.
Watching Hoyer hand off to Vereen and Waters continuing to hold.

[ElectricEye]

So apparently the early word on the Vollmer foot thing is that it could be serious. It's been a real tough season for him, really got to feel bad for the guy. It looks better and better than Cannon was able to come back for this season everyday.

[Matthew Jones]

I liked Molden a lot out of college, he was very raw but had amazing upside. The guy is a freak athlete, myself and toonster used to talk about him nonstop on irc

Molden is big, strong, and athletic, but has been picked on this season. Aside from the interception he made in this game he has been unimpressive.

[ElectricEye]

Mike Reiss' 3 Up, 3 Down;


PHILADELPHIA -- At an initial glance, a look at three players whose performance was "up" and three who were at the opposite end of the spectrum:

Up
Tom Brady -- Quarterback finishes 24 of 34 for 361 yards, with 3 touchdowns and no interceptions, firing up his teammates on the sideline in the second quarter when he senses some taking their foot off the accelerator. He adds five rushes for 28 yards.

Julian Edelman & third-down D -- Receiver-turned-defensive back does a little bit of everything -- blitzing, shedding blocks and making 3 tackles. His performance as a nickel and dime back highlights the Patriots' solid effort on third down, where the Eagles are 1 of 10 at one point before finishing 4 of 13.

Wes Welker/Deion Branch -- Receivers combine for 14 catches for 240 yards and two touchdowns.

Down
Tiquan Underwood -- Big target plays as the third receiver in three-wide package and drops a would-be long touchdown catch from quarterback Tom Brady in the second quarter.

Sebastian Vollmer -- Right tackle looks like he has some problems on the edge before leaving the game in the second half with a right foot/ankle injury.

Brian Waters -- Veteran right guard picks up two late holding penalties on back-to-back plays, at a time when the outcome was well in hand.




I agree with all of it, pretty much as always. I would add that Vollmer pretty much looked the same as he has been since he came back this season and that Tiquan Underwood being down is more of an indictment of Price than him(reasonably expecting anything from Underwood is just slightly asinine. Only slightly), but yeah, not much to complain about this week.

Welker and Branch really did damage together at the same time this season. I don't think anything they were doing was particularly awesome or unexpected though, the Eagles really looked like a poorly prepared team on defense. The book on them this year has been that they give up big time yards after the catch. They had to know that those types of plays were coming to town along with us...and they still weren't able to do anything to stop it, something other teams have been able to do to us at times. Hernandez really went off for the first time in awhile too. More importantly, he played mistake free and drop free football. That probably lines up with the Eagles weaknesses and his ability to exploit them, he just looks much more comfortable when he's targeted closer to the line of scrimmage and with space as opposed to in traffic down the field. Very disappointed that
Taylor Price wasn't able to crack the lineup today, and as I said before, I really think you have to wonder if he ever will at this point. Doesn't look like we're going to be able to find a down the field weapon this year. Very well could be a significant issue against a well coached team that can prevent short plays from becoming long ones and can force Brady to hold onto the ball. It's something we'll probably have to address this year.

The offensive line play was a little shaky. The Eagles were getting a ton of hits on Brady at the start of the game with both interior and outside pressure. As mentioned, Vollmer got beat pretty good at times and Wendell and Waters not having exceptional games either. The Vollmer bears watching. Almost hoping we shut him down for at least a few weeks in an attempt to get him healthy and see what we have with Solder and Cannon. I really feel like we can get better protection from Solder than Vollmer is able to give right now and potentially get Vollmer ready to go for meaningful football.

Defensively, no complaints. Not our best effort this year, but good enough to win. We gave up a ton of yards, but most of them were in garbage time. Didn't start off that way though, with Vince Young completing a few absolute bombs we completely misplayed at the start of the game. We actually got pretty decent safety play today out of Brown, Ihedigbo, and Moore...for the most part anyway. Nothing special, but good enough for this group. The pass rush wasn't there the same way it was the past few weeks, but the pace it was going was pretty much unsustainable anyway.

[descendency]

I think Vollmer is just struggling with his sophomore slump. Devin McCourty too. I predict both are top flight next year. Both have suffered injuries and both seem to have needed more off-season work than one might have expected.

Anyone else worrying about next week or the Broncos week? I mean they have two outstanding edge rushers, which we almost can't block. I'm fairly certain we will destroy the Colts, but the Broncos D has really been stepping it up.

Taylor Price should be WAY WAY down. Not showing up over Tiquan Underwood is a joke.

[Vaylor]

Err Vollmer is a 3rd year player.

[nepg]

Vollmer has just been injured all year. That he has played over Solder when able to walk shows what they think of him.

[Nalej]

Taylor Price... I'm done having false hopes. Time to move on.

[Jvig43]

Yeah I was with EE on this one. The fact he didn't get a single snap yesterday tells me he isn't going to make an impact on this team. Really to bad after he had a pretty awesome pre season.

[FlyingElvis]

Another nice win and solid defensive showing. That should be the case for the next few weeks with the cupcake schedule we face. C'mon bye week!!


I'm really starting to think something the Patriots do in developing WRs just crushes their spirit. Price has shown flashes, Tate showed flashes, even Jackson showed some. If I were a WR coming out in the draft I would be praying the Patriots did not draft me.

[cmarq83]

I have no idea what the deal is with Taylor Price. By all accounts he's practicing hard, and when we've seen him on the field he's looked good. When I went to training camp the past 2 years he looked like one of the guys who was working the hardest.

Even BOB said a couple of weeks ago that he wanted to get him involved in the offense.

It's just perplexing

[descendency]

Err Vollmer is a 3rd year player.

So, it's his Sophomore slump in his 3rd year...

...oops :/

[Unbiased]

Hey guys, I've been looking through every team's assistant coaches to look for possible replacements for Del Rio and was wondering about your OC O'Brien. Is that position for you basically a revolving door because Brady runs the offense or is he actually a good coach?

[nepg]

You leave him alone.

[ElectricEye]

Hey guys, I've been looking through every team's assistant coaches to look for possible replacements for Del Rio and was wondering about your OC O'Brien. Is that position for you basically a revolving door because Brady runs the offense or is he actually a good coach?

He's been alright, but it's hard to tell how much he's done. I don't feel like he's done enough in terms of developing players who can do damage down the field or finding balance between the short passing YAC game and other elements. There's a template for beating his teams that has worked fairly consistently to teams that are good enough to excecute it.

[cmarq83]

He's been alright, but it's hard to tell how much he's done. I don't feel like he's done enough in terms of developing players who can do damage down the field or finding balance between the short passing YAC game and other elements. There's a template for beating his teams that has worked fairly consistently to teams that are good enough to excecute it.

Pretty much this. He's done some good things with BJGE and Woodhead, but his inability to utilize Price, Tate, Vereen, and Ridley so far in his tenure is slightly discouraging. I also don't think he has done a great job using the screen game as much as coordinators in the past have done.

I liked McDaniels, Mangini, Weis, and Crennel all more as assistants and we know how they turned out :\

[ElectricEye]

The screen thing doesn't make any damn sense to me. Seems like a great way to get members of the runningback core aside from Lawfirm and Ridley more involved and play to their strengths.

[cmarq83]

Yeah one of the things that has kindof been lost this year has been how Danny Woodhead's role in the offense has shrunk. I'd love to see Vareen do work in the screen game with his breakaway speed and ability to make people miss.