New England Patriots Discussion

[Jvig43]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4716226/video-espn-injury-expert-on-gronk

Obviously espn and all but ****.

[ElectricEye]

They had another medical expert earlier who was a lot more optimistic. It is what it is. Gronk is more of a stationary target in this game. I wouldn't expect him to be busting 40+ yard plays, but he should be effective as a blocker and as a down field target just because of his size and hands.

[nepg]

That guy's a ******. They're all retards.

They play up this **** because they don't have any other stories that aren't worn out. Then when he does come out and play great (because he's fine), they'll have that story to wear out until their draft season starts.

[descendency]

I wonder what the story would be if it weren't Gronk's ankle...

[Razor]

Brandon Spikes is an idiot

http://c0014154.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_aaa3aa9

[ElectricEye]

https://p.twimg.com/AkV4LISCMAAdu3_.jpg


I watched that on TV, even though there wasn't really much to it. But that was pretty funny. At one point he was positioned directly next to a stern faced Belichick, which accented it all haha. Welker was wearing these funky red pants too.

[Blackluck]

Just saw the team arrive in Indy. Gronk walking well, albeit with a boot.

This is exciting if not nerve wracking, hideous pink suit notwithstanding :)

How many thought this team would be in the SB this year? I really thought we would struggle to win a playoff game lol.

[BradysKnee]

Just saw the team arrive in Indy. Gronk walking well, albeit with a boot.

This is exciting if not nerve wracking, hideous pink suit notwithstanding :)

How many thought this team would be in the SB this year? I really thought we would struggle to win a playoff game lol.

Well I did call it haha.
I love the pink suit TBH lol.
I've had a high ankle sprain before and Gronk will play. No chance he's at 100% but if he's needled up and taped well he can be effective.

[Jvig43]

Ankle sprains aren't terrible. I had one earlier this past year. The thing that sucks about them are how easily it is to resprain them, one wrong cut or tackle and it feels like it's sprain again.

[nepg]

Isn't a "high ankle sprain" more of a knee thing, though?

[descendency]

http://www.aidmyankle.com/_img/syndesmosis.jpg

That's a high ankle sprain.

[descendency]

Welker's red pants and blue jacket...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lylpy9aCQK1r1j05ao2_400.jpg

Tiquan Underwood...
http://prod.static.patriots.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/NE/photos/clubimages/2012/01-January/NEP012912-0511--nfl_medium_540_360.jpg

[ElectricEye]

Word is Vollmer could play in the Super Bowl. I certainly wouldn't start him and potentially create some communication problems, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to having the flexibility to use him in certain situations.

[cmarq83]

Word is Vollmer could play in the Super Bowl. I certainly wouldn't start him and potentially create some communication problems, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to having the flexibility to use him in certain situations.

I like the thought of having him back in case Solder has some problems with Tuck. I feel like a healthy Vollmer is a great matchup physically vs. Tuck, but unfortunately he's not back to 100%.

[Nalej]

Welker's red pants and blue jacket...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lylpy9aCQK1r1j05ao2_400.jpg


Don't forget the MOLEST-stache

[Bigburt63]

High ankle sprains can go either way (this is not from someone with a medical background but rather a [frequent] history of ankle sprains and other injuries). They can be mild and back in a week or 2, or they can be more serious and take upwards of 2 months to get back to normal. He does have world class trainers and training facilities to help, but only time will tell.

Personally, I think there is no way he does not play if he was walking in a boot like that. The real question is how effective he will be, but Gronk is a big happy go lucky kind of guy, and to me seems like the kind of player who can play through almost anything.

[descendency]

A few thoughts:
* Nate Solder and Sebastian Vollmer both played TE in college before converting to LT. Both could be goal line threats.
* Ochocinco is criticized for only having 15 catches, but where has Deion Branch been lately?
* If NE wants to win, they need to do 3 things better: effectively use their outside receivers, run the ball, and play better zone pass defense.

[ElectricEye]

Don't forget Welker. Welker started the season out blazing, but he's been largely ineffective down the stretch. In the past three games, he's averaged about 50 yards for well under 10 a catch and only has one touchdown. He's been a non-factor in a lot of these games and really for what feels like the back half of the year. It's been awhile since he's really gone off and even longer since he's done it in a spot that matters.

[descendency]

Welker has been that bad? Wow. Kind of surprising. I think that's more about how the outside presence has basically died, though.

[BradysKnee]

Don't forget Welker. Welker started the season out blazing, but he's been largely ineffective down the stretch. In the past three games, he's averaged about 50 yards for well under 10 a catch and only has one touchdown. He's been a non-factor in a lot of these games and really for what feels like the back half of the year. It's been awhile since he's really gone off and even longer since he's done it in a spot that matters.

I dunno if its fair to blame Welker for a production decrease. Seems to me as Welkers numbers went down, Hern+Gronks went up.

[ryno626]

Dante Scarnecchia told WEEI that Vollmer will play on Sunday and Gronk didn't have his boot on today at Media Day. Things are looking up

[ryno626]

Welker's red pants and blue jacket...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lylpy9aCQK1r1j05ao2_400.jpg



America...**** yea

[Jvig43]

Dante Scarnecchia told WEEI that Vollmer will play on Sunday and Gronk didn't have his boot on today at Media Day. Things are looking up

Yeah Gronk said the boot is gone for good, however he also said he doesn't know if he'll play Sunday. I expect him to, but it looks like hes taking the BB approach regarding if he'll play or not. Really hope he is going to be effective because were seriously going to need it.

[Jvig43]

Also I really really REALLY hope Brady has read this.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/id/7523084/super-bowl-2012-tom-brady-not-great-think

[ElectricEye]

Honestly, the more I've thought about it, the more I'm encouraged by Gronkowski. I've watched the Ravens game a few times now and while we didn't throw to him for the rest of the game, he actually moved pretty well.

The Vollmer news is far and away the biggest nugget out of the useless exercise that is media day. Encouraging to hear that we'll at least have some options and flexibility with regards to the line.

[Jvig43]

Honestly, the more I've thought about it, the more I'm encouraged by Gronkowski. I've watched the Ravens game a few times now and while we didn't throw to him for the rest of the game, he actually moved pretty well.

The Vollmer news is far and away the biggest nugget out of the useless exercise that is media day. Encouraging to hear that we'll at least have some options and flexibility with regards to the line.

Agreed, having a healthy Vollmer will hopefully be a big help. Ughh I just want the game to get here, my anticipation for this game is ridiculous. I'm way to anxious.

[Babylon]

Honestly, the more I've thought about it, the more I'm encouraged by Gronkowski. I've watched the Ravens game a few times now and while we didn't throw to him for the rest of the game, he actually moved pretty well.

The Vollmer news is far and away the biggest nugget out of the useless exercise that is media day. Encouraging to hear that we'll at least have some options and flexibility with regards to the line.

Gronkowski will play just need to find out how effective he'll be. At the least he needs to be able to get those safeties out of the middle of the field for Welker and Hernandez to do some damage.

[Razor]

I'm still iffy about playing Vollmer against one of the best DLs in the game. If he's not 100% he shouldn't see the field too much because he'll get Brady killed.

[ElectricEye]

Agreed, having a healthy Vollmer will hopefully be a big help. Ughh I just want the game to get here, my anticipation for this game is ridiculous. I'm way to anxious.

I'm starting to feel it. I wasn't until yesterday, but yeah, I'm getting there too. This is really, really ******* big. Losing on a stage like this again to the same team would be awful.

Gronkowski will play just need to find out how effective he'll be. At the least he needs to be able to get those safeties out of the middle of the field for Welker and Hernandez to do some damage.

ESPN has been talking about it and it's rather obvious, but the key will be how he's able to get off the line. The Giants are going to come up and jam him hard. We know it, they know it. Usually, he's damn near unstoppable there because of how big and strong he is in addition to the speed...but with the ankle, he might not be able to generate enough push. Anything to make him have to stop and start again plays into the Giants favor.


I hate to say it, but Chad might have to make a few catches down the field in this game.

[BradysKnee]

I'm starting to feel it. I wasn't until yesterday, but yeah, I'm getting there too. This is really, really ******* big. Losing on a stage like this again to the same team would be awful.



ESPN has been talking about it and it's rather obvious, but the key will be how he's able to get off the line. The Giants are going to come up and jam him hard. We know it, they know it. Usually, he's damn near unstoppable there because of how big and strong he is in addition to the speed...but with the ankle, he might not be able to generate enough push. Anything to make him have to stop and start again plays into the Giants favor.


I hate to say it, but Chad might have to make a few catches down the field in this game.

How ironic would it be if Chad catches a game winner in the SB? lol

[ElectricEye]

Apparently there's an illness going around the team. That's just a real kick in the balls. The most notable guy I've heard who it's gotten is Light, but still, let's hope that goes away.

Should be interesting to hear how the rest of the practices go, with everything being on full pads so far. I kind of like how we elected to do that. Always seems to help a bit with the tackling.

[FlyingElvis]

Getting antsy myself. Decided to do the SB Party route at my buddies which should be fun. Now I'm just watching the clock . . .

The illness is better news on Tuesday than on Friday, but still worrisome.

Ocho for 4 catches, 78 yards and two TDs . . . you heard it here first.

[descendency]

How ironic would it be if Chad catches a game winner in the SB? lol

Young Chad's dream was probably about beating single coverage on his way to catching a Super Bowl winning TD.

It's definitely possible given how this offense desperately needs an outside guy to dominate those single coverages and force the safety back out of the box.

[ElectricEye]

I'm not comfortable with that idea, but if things start breaking down I hope we at least give it a chance. We need someone to clear up the passing lanes for our underneath stuff. Hopefully, we can get someone who can fit in the offense in the offseason. Unfortunately, we need someone to do it now and Chad is the only option we have if Gronk can't do it effectively.


...at the very least, no one will be expecting it. Or shouldn't be, anyway.

[descendency]

Only 1 reporter was talking to Logan Mankins at the media day, while around 30 were asking Chad questions and Logan had a podium.

[Nalej]

It's the 'stache. He looks like a Viking.

[ElectricEye]

Only 1 reporter was talking to Logan Mankins at the media day, while around 30 were asking Chad questions and Logan had a podium.

That's because media day is a non-football event.

[ElectricEye]

So any thoughts on if we'll see Ridley inactive again? I really felt like we missed some of his big play ability against the Ravens. It's hard not to get greedy when you watch Benny run and think about the extra yards Ridley could get. There's some things I really don't like about the way he runs and I do think the ball security and decisiveness is an issue...but you want to put the the guys who give you the best chance to move the ball on the field.

[FlyingElvis]

I'd bet he remains in active. Fumbles in the playoffs are too much to bear when there's no other-worldly upgrade from Ridley to BJGE.

[Jvig43]

I will gladly stick with BJGE over Ridley in this game. I'm sorry but BJGE was very effective against the Ravens and sure Ridley may have gotten an extra ten yards out of some of those runs but he also could have danced around a bit and not hit on those runs or worse yet, fumbled in the red zone (like in denver, you ass Ridley). So imo, I want to stay with BJGE for this one.

[ElectricEye]

As a rule, I would agree...but I can see the other side of it too. I don't think anyone wants to see him get the lions share of the carries, but the possibility of a 25 yard gain on the ground on any given down is very tempting. Especially against a Giants defense that has struggled against the run. There's really no reason to mess with it, but that's one I could see the team go either way on. In the end, it's likely too much of a risk though.

[Blackluck]

I've read that Ridley thinks he'll be active. I'm in the 'All hands on deck' view, though; if Ridley offers any edge use him, even though I'm plenty comfortable with (and have always liked) BJE.

Unrelated, but here at work everyone is nervous for Sunday (I think more than a few of my co-workers will not be happy campers Monday. I thought ahead and took a vacation day :)

Just read a great piece by Jerry Thorton (http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/football/patriots/jerry-thornton/2012/02/01/abandon-all-hope-ye-patriots-fans) that soothes my fears:
But I'm OK. Preternaturally calm. No worries. Clear eyes. Full heart. And do you know why?
Because the Patriots can't possibly win. Not a chance.
I know this because I've been listening to the press all week.

Read the whole piece, it's pretty good ;)

[ElectricEye]

I think the best way to use Ridley would be to give him a few early "test the waters" carries early. If he's hitting the hole hard and finding yards, keep giving it to him. If he's dancing around and trying to bounce everything, move on to more efficient options. He's one of those guys who just runs very hot and cold, at least at this point in his career. If we catch him on a good wave I would not complain.

Oh, and Jackie MacMullan wrote a very good article on Dante Scarnecchia today. That's actually one of two pieces she's done a real good job on this week. Good read on one of the more under-appreciated guys on the coaching staff. Here's the link. (http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/7525724/super-bowl-2012offensive-line-coach-dante-scarnecchia-always-there-new-england-patriots)

[Jvig43]

Along the lines of the Giants D being pretty bad against the run, I really really hope we earned from that last SB to run the ball, and we should be using a ton of screens as I as well as some of you have mentioned. Great way to sustain long time consuming drives.

[Jvig43]

Also numbers never lie just showed a stat that the Giants against two tight end formations have the lowest sack rate of any team in the NFL, getting only four sacks all year long for a sack rate of 2.8%. When they played us in week 9 they sacked Brady once when we had both TEs in. Pretty awesome stat for us Pats fans.

[ElectricEye]

That makes sense. Forces the defensive ends out wider and gives them an extra bit of traffic to wade through before getting to the initial block. Vollmer being healthy could be a big get in terms of formation flexibly. It allows us to put Gronk and Solder in at tight end and then move Hernandez to either receiver or runningback.

[Blackluck]

Thanks for the link EE. I'm glad Scar has stuck around as long as he has, he's an amazing O line coach.
*
That's an incredible stat of sacks. I wonder if that's part of the reason BB is so relaxed. Prior to the Rams game in '01 he was the same way. In that game he had told Curren prior to the game "the hay is in the barn" - and that's with the Pats as 14 point dogs.

[BradysKnee]

Also numbers never lie just showed a stat that the Giants against two tight end formations have the lowest sack rate of any team in the NFL, getting only four sacks all year long for a sack rate of 2.8%. When they played us in week 9 they sacked Brady once when we had both TEs in. Pretty awesome stat for us Pats fans.

Did not know that. That is promising.

[cmarq83]

IMO we need to have Ridley active. Like EE said test the waters early. If we can put together a nice physical drive in the opening with 2TE sets we and screens we can halt the pass rush early and get the corners and safeties in man biting on the run. We know they're going to play man on the outside and clog the middle of the field (who wouldn't against us) but honestly this is a team we're more physical than, and I believe that the Pats can push them around. If we can get them into believing that this is going to be a grind it out football game that would play right into our hands. Take the shots later when the corners get preoccupied with the run.

I actually think it's a good thing we stuggled offensively in the first meeting. I think sometimes when we're successful in the first go round we get complacent just running crossing routes to Welker and hitting Gronk up the seam, and avoid having anything else to turn to in the next game in case that doesn't work out. I think our offense has a lot more versatility than the ways we actually use it. We can run the ball when we want to, and the potential for screens are there. I think we can beat the Giants if we do this early.

[nepg]

Not worried one bit about the offense. The defense needs to come to play. If they come out and play well, the Pats win. Bottom line.

[cmarq83]

Not worried one bit about the offense. The defense needs to come to play. If they come out and play well, the Pats win. Bottom line.

Honestly, that has been kind of getting me all week. People say that the Giants offense is just as good as ours, but I really don't see it. Yes, Manning, Nicks, and Cruz are incredible, but besides them that unit isn't particularly special. They have better receivers, but we have a noticeable edge everywhere else except maybe running back if Bradshaw comes to play. We have a Swiss army knife which is really only missing a deep threat. They've got big play ability, but I think they're easier to shut down if you can take Cruz out of the game. Defensively they definitely have an edge, but I don't think it's all that much bigger than our O vs. their O.

[ElectricEye]

I agree with that sentiment. It seems to be a forgone conclusion that the Giants will be able to outscore us if that's what it comes to. That's certainly a possibility, but it's far from a certainty. It's a what have you done for me lately kind of league, but we were one of the best offenses in the NFL the entire season. One rough game doesn't change that.

[FlyingElvis]

Cruz gets all the publicity but I'm far more concerned with Nicks. Cruz had a great season and deserves the praise he's getting, but let's not forget that Nicks and Manningham were both banged up for big stretches. This unit is easily one of the best WR groups in the league.

I don't see any scenario where we win this easily. Our D would have to play lights out for 60 minutes and there's absolutely no precedent for that. Could it happen? Sure. But, technically, I could win Powerball this weekend, too.

[Matthew Jones]

The fact that the Pats are playing in the Super Bowl in a few days hasn't registered or hasn't had the same impact as expected. Anyone else feeling very relaxed about this one? Just seems like another game for some reason.

[Nalej]

Not me. The thought of losing to the Giants again is killing me. I have too many Giants fans as friends. Blows!

[Matthew Jones]

Not me. The thought of losing to the Giants again is killing me. I have too many Giants fans as friends. Blows!

I guess I just don't think we'll lose.

[Razor]

The fact that the Pats are playing in the Super Bowl in a few days hasn't registered or hasn't had the same impact as expected. Anyone else feeling very relaxed about this one? Just seems like another game for some reason.

I kinda feel the same way. I'm starting to feel it a bit now, but I'm not as excited as I probably should be. I'm really looking forward to the game, but I won't allow myself to expect, or even hope for a victory. I'm setting myself up to be surprised if we win and not as devastated if we lose...

[ElectricEye]

Not at all. I've got a good feeling about this game, but I've been really sweating bullets for a few days now.

[Blackluck]

Cruz gets all the publicity but I'm far more concerned with Nicks. Cruz had a great season and deserves the praise he's getting, but let's not forget that Nicks and Manningham were both banged up for big stretches. This unit is easily one of the best WR groups in the league.

I don't see any scenario where we win this easily. Our D would have to play lights out for 60 minutes and there's absolutely no precedent for that. Could it happen? Sure. But, technically, I could win Powerball this weekend, too.

I don't see the odds of NE winning as remote as winning the Powerball :P
We don't have to shut them down completely; Eli will get his yards and the receivers will have their catches. We need to have a clean game (no turnovers, limited penalties) and we can win this.

Although honestly I don't have a feeling one way or the other who will win. Risking the obvious, it boils down to execution, and I just don't think that's predictable.

[FlyingElvis]

I don't see the odds of NE winning as remote as winning the Powerball :P
We don't have to shut them down completely; Eli will get his yards and the receivers will have their catches. We need to have a clean game (no turnovers, limited penalties) and we can win this.

Although honestly I don't have a feeling one way or the other who will win. Risking the obvious, it boils down to execution, and I just don't think that's predictable.

No, but the odds of our defense locking down the Giants O for 60 minutes might be quite similar. lol

[Razor]

Not at all. I've got a good feeling about this game, but I've been really sweating bullets for a few days now.

I'm having the same good feeling, I think it might be because BB is in such a good mood. I just don't want to give into this feeling and become comfortable going into the game...

EDIT: Post number 2000! Which means that I'm still about 9 years from post number 10,000 lol... How do you guys post so much?

[ElectricEye]

ESPN is reporting Gronk is going to practice today. Obviously, he's going to be limited...but it's better than going into the game cold. Let's just hope he doesn't tweak anything.

[Jvig43]

Well Gronk did practice today. Very encouraging news for us.

[ElectricEye]

Interestingly enough, Bill O'Brien agreed with me on Brady's play against the Ravens when he spoke to the media. The first time around watching that game, I thought he blew. Upon further review, it really wasn't as bad as it seemed. We moved the ball very well and made some key plays. Our defense still had to win it, but the margin between that game and the way he usually plays(adjusted for how good the Ravens are) really came down to one or two throws and a few key drops by Hernandez and Welker.

Mostly unrelated. That was the only real story to come out today besides the latest from the Gronkle saga. That and BB staging a mock half time during the practice, which I think is a GREAT idea on a few levels.

[AntoinCD]

So, the main thing that everyone talks about going into this game seems to be about the Giants amazing pass rush. But they aren't the same as they were 4 years ago. Sure JPP is beasting it but Tuck and Osi haven't been awesome this year. I seen this interesting stat on twitter

The Giants pressure the QB every 11.63 times they rush the passer, the Patriots pressure the QB every 11.18 times they rush the passer.

So for all the media love for the Giants D line they haven't been as amazing as they are made out to be.

More importantly though, the Patriots offensive line gives up a pressure every 26.99 QB drop backs while the Giants allow a pressure every 14.44 QB Drop backs

Add in that Brady has been sacked only once in the playoffs and I feel a bit better about that.

Not the Giants WRs, they scare the **** out of me

[Nalej]

haha, yea, I've been having nightmares about that trio (Mainly Nicks and SalsaMan)

As far as the pass rush, I'm so confident in our OLine, that I haven't thought about it that much.
Only thing I fear, is the times that they do get through, hopefully it's not a strip sack.
Osi is a beast at those.

[FlyingElvis]

They were also missing Tuck and Osi at various points this season, so the numbers will be a bit off.

I still think this game will be decided by Vince. We need a huge performance from him again and I'm reasonably sure he can deliver it. Probably moreso now that I've seen that pressure stat for the Giants Oline.

[ElectricEye]

I think one thing we haven't really looked at or talked about(which means it will have a huge impact) will be their tight ends. Our focus will undoubtedly be on stopping those three receivers. Don't be surprised if Ballard makes a few plays that make us sweat.

[AntoinCD]

I think one thing we haven't really looked at or talked about(which means it will have a huge impact) will be their tight ends. Our focus will undoubtedly be on stopping those three receivers. Don't be surprised if Ballard makes a few plays that make us sweat.

Ballard will have a few catches but he can't run at all. Anyone other than Tracy White covering him in week 9 and he probably doesn't make the catch to win. I think it's how the Giants run the ball which could be key. No way do I see Belichick playing single high safety against their WRs so the Giants should have opportunities to run. I agree with Flying Elvis here. VW is going to be a huge factor in this game if we are to win

[BradysKnee]

I'm feeling like I did 03/04. 2001 I didn't expect a win but was pumped.
This however feels nothing like 2007. 2007 I had majorly bad feelings and was actually subconsciously sure we would lose.

I feel really good about this one. I think we got it.

[AntoinCD]

You know I don't think I'm even going to watch the game on Sunday.

According to pretty much everything I've been reading;

The Patriots are actually playing against a mixture of the 86 Bears and 2000 Ravens defense.

Eli Manning is a better, more clutch version of Tom Brady.

The Patriots only made it to the Superbowl because they played against Canadian Football teams all year while the Giants had to play an All Star team week in, week out.

Despite statistics saying the Giants were actually the worst running team in the NFL, they are actually the best.

Despite the Patriots averaging more points and yards the Giants have the better offense.

Rob Gronkowski is in a critical condition.

[Jvig43]

You know I don't think I'm even going to watch the game on Sunday.

According to pretty much everything I've been reading;

The Patriots are actually playing against a mixture of the 86 Bears and 2000 Ravens defense.

Eli Manning is a better, more clutch version of Tom Brady.

The Patriots only made it to the Superbowl because they played against Canadian Football teams all year while the Giants had to play an All Star team week in, week out.

Despite statistics saying the Giants were actually the worst running team in the NFL, they are actually the best.

Despite the Patriots averaging more points and yards the Giants have the better offense.

Rob Gronkowski is in a critical condition.

This is pretty much everything that espn has been saying for the last two weeks. Micheal Smith said pretty much straight up he'd take Eli over Brady this weekend. Watch Brady suck again this sunday after I post this.

[AntoinCD]

This is pretty much everything that espn has been saying for the last two weeks. Micheal Smith said pretty much straight up he'd take Eli over Brady this weekend. Watch Brady suck again this sunday after I post this.

Yeah it was reading Espn.com that put me over the edge a while ago.

Some direct quotes from Espn.com "experts"

Dan Graziano-"Frankly, the Giants' past two opponents were tougher than this one."

Ian O'Connor-"there is no discernible talent difference between Brady and Manning."

David Fleming-"Both quarterbacks will take a beating in this game, but while Eli Manning plays bigger and better in these situations, Tom Brady tends to shrink."

Pat Yasinskas-"Most people think Bill Belichick is the best coach in the world. I think Tom Coughlin is at least as good"

Mike Ditka-"The Giants are better on both sides of the ball"

Doug Kretz-"The Giants can be one of the most dominating run teams in the league, and with the issues New England's defense has had with tackling, I'd look for Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs to be difference- makers"


Just to recap.

Tom Brady is arguably the GOAT. Eli is arguably top 5 in the NFL at the minute yet there is no difference?

Tom Coughlin was on the verge of getting fired had the Giants not made the playoffs yet he is up there with one of the top 4 or 5 coaches of all time?

The Giants have a dominating run game that will beat the Pats but just decided not to use it in the regular season and have the 32nd ranked running game?

Once again, the Pats scored more points. Had more yards. More passing yards. More running yards. But the Giants are a better offense???

This is why I hate the build up to the Superbowl. If it was a normal week you could shrug it off and say just wait to the game. But this is all I've been seeing for the past ten ************* days!!!

[ElectricEye]

I'm not going to get too riled up. It's been going on for the past two weeks. It was pretty clear right from the get-go that the Giants being the trendy pick would eventually evolve into this team being disrespected. It's a what have you done for me lately kind of league and the media picked up on that. The stuff about the Giants having a better offense is particularly incendiary to me, but we've discussed that already.


....but in the end, this stuff stops mattering the second those two teams take the field. I certainly don't mind that we're not getting our due and it might help motivate the team a bit....but at the risk of stating the obvious, it will come down to who plays the best on Sunday night. Despite the fact we've been the recipient of it in recent years, this team has never been about media hype.

[AntoinCD]

Yeah I cant wait for the game to actually start.

I think for the Pats to have the best chance BB will put in a real bend but don't break defense. Play cover 2 in the base with Chung and Ihedigbo and then move McCourty to safety when they have 3 or more WRs and bring in Moore. Play zone concepts in the 3 "safety" approach and have either Chung or Ihedigbo try to disrupt Cruz at the line. Eli Manning is a guy who has historically always thrown a lot of INTs. Make him throw consistently to small windows and hope for the mistake.

Trust the defensive line of Gerard Warren/Shaun Ellis/Brandon Deaderick at LE, Kyle Love, Vince Wilfork at DT and Mark Anderson at RE, along with Spikes and Mayo predominantly at LB to at the very least contain the run. The last thing they should be doing is crowding the box against a team who aren't a great running team. Bradshaw and Jacobs have talent but their offensive line just isn't good enough IMO.

On offense it's all about holding up up front and execution between Brady and the receivers.

[ElectricEye]

Where McCourty plays is the most interesting late week story line for me. You've got to figure that one of Cruz/Nicks will receiver a double team at various times in various looks. I think you can hide(and utilize) Edelman a bit by involving him in one of those. Arrington matches up fairly well on Cruz in the slot, so he could be a part of that. That would sort of force McCourty outside. One matchup I kind of like and am hoping to see is Molden on Manningham. Molden has had his struggles in the quick game, but he's been pretty good at defending those down field passes that Manningham likes to catch.

[AntoinCD]

You're right about Manningham but I'm not sure if it will be Molden or Moore on him. I really think he is the one who will see single coverage for most of the game. I think Nicks will see coverage over the top with one of the safeties and I believe they will try to disrupt Cruz at the line and clog the middle of the field. I am hoping for a big game from our defensive line to force quick throws into coverage

I wonder how much BB will use the running game on Sunday. For the Giants to match up to our passing game they will need Boley and Williams on the field at LB and 5 DBs. I like that matchup, particularly if they have their NASCAR front for us to run the ball effectively on traps and draws etc. I would also love to see even a few early screens to Woodhead/Hernandez to get them thinking about it

[descendency]

Apparently, the NFL is late with their fines this off-season as they haven't fined one Jets player for not showing up to Super Bowl media day...

[ElectricEye]

These next two days are going to be ******* excruciating. That's for damn sure. I'm nervous as all hell, but I really just wish it would get here.


I'm very grateful that there's an interesting slate of video games coming out over the next several months. Lessens the blow and allows me to focus on other things if it doesn't go our way haha.

[Matthew Jones]

Kevin Faulk, Deion Branch, Chad Ochocinco, Matt Light, and Shaun Ellis are some guys to watch in this game. I could see any/all retiring after the game so they're gonna leave it all on the line. I can't imagine not starting Shaun Ellis on Sunday.

[AntoinCD]

Branch and Ocho are my two guys. Branch will see a lot of single coverage, probably against Aaron Ross, and that's a match up he can win and have a nice day.

Ocho is more of a hope thing. The talk was always he may not do much to start the season but could be a contributor later on. Well...it doesn't get much later on than this

[ElectricEye]

Chad could realistically make contributions in the second half, especially if Gronk swells up and starts feeling it. I don't like that possibility and I would prefer to not have to rely on it, but it's there. As much as I get on the guy, I feel like he could have made a catch or two down the field in the last game that helped. It was there if we had someone who was capable of doing it.

[ElectricEye]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0203/bos_a_gronkowski_b1_576.jpg

Gronk made it through the walkthrough without a limp. Yo Soy Fiesta.

[BradysKnee]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0203/bos_a_gronkowski_b1_576.jpg

Gronk made it through the walkthrough without a limp. Yo Soy Fiesta.

Bitchin. I love Gronk.

[descendency]

Chad could realistically make contributions in the second half, especially if Gronk swells up and starts feeling it. I don't like that possibility and I would prefer to not have to rely on it, but it's there. As much as I get on the guy, I feel like he could have made a catch or two down the field in the last game that helped. It was there if we had someone who was capable of doing it.

If the patriots can get a few good gains draws and hit a few "deep" balls (behind the corner) to chad in the first part of the game, the Giants might as well bend over the rest of the game.

They pass rush will have to respect the run and the (strong) safety will have to respect the deep ball.

The patriots need to find a way to use their defense to generate a few turnovers. Edelman blitzing is a definitely possibility.

[Sloopy]

I encourage you all to check out my latest three round mock :)

Feedback would be awesome

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...45#post2848845

[Vaylor]

Page not found.

[BradysKnee]

I encourage you all to check out my latest three round mock :)

Feedback would be awesome

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...45#post2848845

You ****** up the draft order.

[AntoinCD]

Hey I thought I'd come back and ***** and rant again today because it really made me feel better yesterday.

Do you know that the 85 Bears...sorry the 2011 New York Giants are hoping to become the first team ever to win the Superbowl after conceding 400 or more points in the regular season? This elite and amazing defense obviously gave up 58 more points(or nearly 4 points per game average) than the turrrrrible Patriots defense because their awesome offense could score so much.

Points wise throughout the regular season the Giants had a minus 6 differential. The Patriots??? Eh they had an abysmal plus 171 differential. Talk about a crappy offense in Foxboro.

In the postseason the Giants are averaging 27 points per game. The Patriots are averaging 34. Sure the Giants played a very good SF defense but the Pats played an equally good Ravens defense.

Sure defensively the Giants are playing well in the postseason averaging only 13.0 points against. But they Patriots are only averaging 15.0 against.

The vaunted Giants pass rush which is just so damn good that even the best offensive linemen of all time couldn't stop them have 9 sacks in 3 games. Now for those of you without a calculator that works out at 3 sacks per game. The crappy Patriots have 8 sacks in 2 games. That's 4 sacks per game.

Eli Manning is averaging more than 10 yards less per game than Tom Brady despite averaging 6 more attempts in the postseason.

The dominating Giants running game which is apparently back in the postseason is averaging less yards per game and 0.2 yards per carry better than the Patriots seldom used running attack. Oh hold on, surely if the Pats have more yards per game but a slightly worse yards per carry doesn't that mean the Pats run the ball more than the Giants??? Why yes it does but don't let the facts get in the way of the media telling you the Pats are a pass happy team who don't run the ball and the Giants have amazing balance.

So, **** you media!!! **** you right in the ass

[Don Vito]

I am ******** my pants nervous. I have been trying to think about other stuff for the past 2 weeks, if we lose i may kill someone. I think I am going to blackout tomorrow because i dont want to remember.

[AntoinCD]

I am soooo nervous for tomorrow too. As you may see from a few of my last posts I have a bit of a thing about how the media are billing this one and part of me thinks "how can they write off the Pats and their extremely potent offense and improving defense so easily?"

Common sense shows that the Giants aren't the world beaters some are making them out to be and the Patriots aren't the scrubs some are making them out to be.

Greg Doyel on CBS basically said when Julian Edelman is matched up all game on Victor Cruz he will get annihilated. Edelman averages something like 12 defensive snaps per game!!! Lazy journalism annoys the **** out of me. But then again there is something to be said about the Giants potential.

The Giants have the potential to rush the passer amazingly. The Giants have the potential to run the ball with success. The Giants have the potential to throw all over our secondary. The Giants have potential to shut down our passing game.

That's what scares the **** out of me. Potentially the Giants are a very bad match up for us. But while everyone talks about Hakeem Nicks and Ahmad Bradshaw out in week 9, the Pats played with a LB corp of Jerod Mayo and his first game back from his knee injury, Tracy White, Rob Ninkovich and Gary Guyton. Albert Haynesworth basically lay down on Brandon Jacobs TD run. Pat Chung was out. Brady was playing hurt. But the Giants won on a last minute play so it's not like they whooped the Patriots' asses.

I'm not exactly full of confidence for tomorrow night but if the Patriots play at their best they will win this game. Regardless of the Giants offense, if Brady and the offense click they can score 40 points on most teams. With better execution they should have scored in the 30s against Baltimore. The Giants aren't Baltimore when it comes to defense.

[AntoinCD]

I was looking back over the last few pages here and I just wanna bring something back up that Cmarq said

The Pats are a more physical offense than the Giants are a defense. Bring in Solder/Vollmer as a TE, have Gronk play in line, flex Hernandez out and have BJGE or Ridley back with Welker outside as well. If they are going to show their NASCAR front and have Boley, Williams and Deon Grant in at LB then ram it down their throat. Hell do that a few times and make them sub Kiwi in and have him try to cover Gronk off play action.

I want to see a lot of physical smash mouth stuff to start with and then come the turn of the first quarter and throughout the second I wanna see no huddle, up tempo kinda stuff and try and wear their pass rushers down. If the offensive line can dominate early then Brady should pick their back 7 apart.

[Babylon]

I am ******** my pants nervous. I have been trying to think about other stuff for the past 2 weeks, if we lose i may kill someone. I think I am going to blackout tomorrow because i dont want to remember.

Well you know how they say when your with a woman you think about sports. Now when you're thinking about the game you can be destracted by being with a woman. It's only the right thing to do.

[BradysKnee]

Heeeey guys, I admit, I'm a bit nervous too but I got the feeling we got this. So just enjoy the ride haha! This doesn't feel anything like 2007.

[Jvig43]

Well you know how they say when your with a woman you think about sports. Now when you're thinking about the game you can be destracted by being with a woman. It's only the right thing to do.

QFT. The only reason I didn't tweak out after our 07 loss was due to the fact that I was with a very very attractive girl who was six years older than me at the time. Getting laid was the only thing that kept me sane that night/next day.

[ElectricEye]

http://i39.tinypic.com/29fuza8.png


Congrats to the Giants for winning the Super Bowl!

[descendency]

Madden, which has been right 7 out of the last 9 times (the two times it failed were Wild Card teams winning, Green Bay over Pitt and NYG over NE), predicted a 3 point win for New York.

:(

[BradysKnee]

The Madden with Peyton Hillis on the cover is doomed to be wrong.

[Vaylor]

Tiquan Underwood got released. Sheesh one day before the SB? That is ******* cold blooded.

[BradysKnee]

Tiquan Underwood got released. Sheesh one day before the SB? That is ******* cold blooded.

He must've ****** up. Doesn't make sense otherwise.

[ElectricEye]

Counter move in Silvestro up with the big club. Weird, but I suppose there's no real reason not to. Chad will get snaps I guess.

[BaLLiN]

He must've ****** up. Doesn't make sense otherwise.

Yeah, but I read it wasn't discipline related.

[ElectricEye]

I just hope the Giants don't pull a fast one and sign him/bring him in for any reason. Doubt it happens, but still.

[Vaylor]

I just hope the Giants don't pull a fast one and sign him/bring him in for any reason. Doubt it happens, but still.

The Giant's wouldn't be able to sign him until monday.

[ElectricEye]

I figured as much, but there's some chatter in Giants circles of the Twitter that they should think about it. Certainly would be a punch in the dick.

[BradysKnee]

I doubt Underwood would be that spiteful. Being wht he is he must know this **** is business and if the pats win he gets a ring.

[descendency]

The Giant's wouldn't be able to sign him until monday.

Cant do it until after the new season starts, because once a teams season is over, their roster is frozen.

And they'd have to release someone to pick him up.

So early March.

[descendency]

Tiquan Underwood...
http://prod.static.patriots.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/imported/NE/photos/clubimages/2012/01-January/NEP012912-0511--nfl_medium_540_360.jpg

I bet he has a date with a barber tomorrow.

Something tells me his release was more than just a "football decision".

Actually, after thinking about it and reading about, it makes sense.

[hoekd0250]

Belichich is a genius at these type of late week roster moves. I think he might have done this to make the giants think more into how healthy Gronk is going to be. I mean if they cut a wr then they might be trying to imply they are going to use gronk more in the spread game as well. Remember in the first game the pats used mostly two te sets i think i read like 85% of the time i believe. Limiting amount of wr snaps. Even if gronk is a decoy this has to make you second guess a little more as well.

[devinhester=R.O.Y 2006]

Well boys...the big day is finally here!

All I can say is that hopefully sometime late this evening that we are all celebrating like crazy!

Good luck Pats...and to all my Patriot brethren, enjoy the game!

[Nalej]

Yup! Hope tonight is a good night for the rest of us.
If not, I'll be sure to start a PA (Patriots Anonymous) for suicide prevention

[BradysKnee]

I may exile to Antarctica if we lose and check out those Hollow Earth theories.

[Nalej]

Make sure to book two flights

[BradysKnee]

I'll book 5 to be safe lol.But I actually feel really good about our chances tonight.

[cmarq83]

Wow I'm watching espn coverage for the first time today. How ever are we going to win this game when we're so overmatched? :)

[Borat]

I hope you pound the **** out of the Giants tonight.

[ElectricEye]

Wow I'm watching espn coverage for the first time today. How ever are we going to win this game when we're so overmatched? :)

It's over. Even the Giants website said so.


But yeah, I'll be watching the game away from NFLDC. Love you guys, but the majority of important games I've watched on here have ended in heartbreak. I don't really believe in stuff like that, but hey, couldn't hurt.

[Nalej]

It's over. Even the Giants website said so.


But yeah, I'll be watching the game away from NFLDC. Love you guys, but the majority of important games I've watched on here have ended in heartbreak. I don't really believe in stuff like that, but hey, couldn't hurt.

YOU STAY AWAY! lol

[ElectricEye]

Of course...I'll also be watching it at my girlfriends house. Most likely in the same seat I saw Papelbon blow the 9th against the Angels a few years ago, Ray Rice take that first carry for a touchdown and end the game, and the Jets game......but hey, I don't believe in that stuff so it's cool.




No it's not :/

[Nalej]

Switch seats with her, GDI!

[ElectricEye]

Haha, just might have to.

But yeah, I still feel pretty good about this game. Love what I've heard about the way we've prepared, with indoor practices with the heat up and that whole halftime break in the middle thing. I'm not sure how much stuff like that matters, but it sort of reminds me of the old attention to detail type things we used to hear about.

[Nalej]

BB's whole attitude this whole week is what's making me feel good about the game.
Is it me or does he seem like he's not one bit stressed... like he has something up his sleeve that he knows is unbeatable.

I love it.

[descendency]

https://twitter.com/#!/ChrisCanty99/status/166207362120691712

@ChrisCanty99
Giants 28, NewEngland 17 RT @JasonRomano: Send me your Super Bowl predictions that stink -- Closest (cont) http://tl.gd/fobher

[scottyboy]

So, I like you guys and all, and because of Brady, your Rutgers ties and you guys pwning the Jets, I am kinda a closet Pats fan. It's true and feels weird to say, but I respect the living **** **** hell out of you guys. But...

but...

but...

but...

please just don't show up tonight. That would make me happy. Like contract food poisoning or something.

[Nalej]

It's the Giants who will get a case of Gronk-itis!

[Don Vito]

I may exile to Antarctica if we lose and check out those Hollow Earth theories.

This. For the last 2 weeks I have been thinking about how I will hhandle a loss, I haven't even thought about what happens if we win.

[ElectricEye]

This. For the last 2 weeks I have been thinking about how I will hhandle a loss, I haven't even thought about what happens if we win.

I started thinking about what happens if we win today, but it's mostly been negative what if's for me too.

[Jvig43]

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4717146/video-ed-werner-on-gronk-ochocinco

Pretty encouraging news across the board.

[Babylon]

QFT. The only reason I didn't tweak out after our 07 loss was due to the fact that I was with a very very attractive girl who was six years older than me at the time. Getting laid was the only thing that kept me sane that night/next day.

Those ladies do come in handy sometimes don't they?

[Razor]

Apparently the guy who caught the ball that Cundiff kicked wide left donated the ball to the Hall of Patriots in return for $50,000 to be put in a fund for the child of the fan's dead friend. The Kraft family is so classy it's difficult to put it into words.

[BradysKnee]

Apparently the guy who caught the ball that Cundiff kicked wide left donated the ball to the Hall of Patriots in return for $50,000 to be put in a fund for the child of the fan's dead friend. The Kraft family is so classy it's difficult to put it into words.

Razor you need to change your sig. I end up staring at it 5-10 seconds before reading your posts... then 5-10 seconds after.

[Nalej]

haha, every time my looks up at the computer screen, I always happen to be reading a Razor's sig...

"mmm... football forum? Yea right"

lol


**** this **** though... I'm off to the gym... should make time fly by a bit faster then staring at the clock and refreshing this website constantly lol

See you guys at the coin flip!

[descendency]

Ryan Mallett, Kevin Faulk, Shane Vereen, Gary Guyton, Donald Thomas, Nick McDonald & Ron Brace are inactive.

[Razor]

We got Ridleyzzz!!!!!

[descendency]

Kind of shocked at Ron Brace still being on the team. They could have released him for Alex Silvestro...

[nepg]

Kind of shocked at Ron Brace still being on the team. They could have released him for Alex Silvestro...
Seems like he's just had nagging injuries all year. The coaching staff must really like him still. Kind of reminds me of Marquise Hill in the way they've kept him, but haven't really used him very much.

[ElectricEye]

Kevin Faulk is the most notable one there, obviously(as noted by the bold haha). Defiantly signals more empty back 3 TE sets, IMO.

[cmarq83]

I wish all of you guys the best of luck tonight regardless of the outcome. My school is in Southern Connecticut so if the Pats lose there is going to be hardcore celebrations from Giants fans. I probably won't make it to class tomorrow if that's the case.

It's been a lot of fun talking Pats with you guys this season. We just need to cap it off with banner #4. I don't feel great about this team (2003 or 2004) teams would wipe the floor with them, but all they need to do is win this one and then it doesn't make any difference. The Pats will win if they force a couple of turnovers and are creative on offense. If they decide to just run crossing routes they'll lose. Screens, Draws, Running between the Tackles, and a deep play to someone other than Gronk is what it'll take.

Good luck everyone and,

GO PATS!!!!!!!!!!

[nepg]

Feels like 2001...

[BradysKnee]

Kind of shocked at Ron Brace still being on the team. They could have released him for Alex Silvestro...

BB is thinking of 2003. It turned into a shootout because he didn't carry enough DL. Or so he said in a book lol.

[Nalej]

Feels like 2001...

I was thinking the same thing!

... and **** the YMCA. Closed early today. ****-ers.

[nepg]

Having to outplay the refs today, it seems. Looking forward to halftime adjustments.

[scottyboy]

Having to outplay the refs today, it seems. Looking forward to halftime adjustments.

You cannot be serious with this...

[AntoinCD]

More importantly...Madonna...yes or no? I mean if you didn't know she was 74 you probably would....right????

[Rosebud]

More importantly...Madonna...yes or no? I mean if you didn't know she was 74 you probably would....right????

Probably not, n it's not like I'm a douche about age, the girl I'm seeing now has 9 years on my at 32, but Madonna...yeah, dunno bout that one...

[Razor]

More importantly...Madonna...yes or no? I mean if you didn't know she was 74 you probably would....right????

Just no... That gap between her teeth is such a ******* turnoff. I'd rather **** a bear trap than her tbh.

[Borat]

You guys can commence with the 2nd-Half curb-stomping.

Thanks.

[Nalej]

I'll say it. I'll do her. Fucknit, Why not?

You guys can commence with the 2nd-Half curb-stomping.

Thanks.

I'll pass the word to BB

[Rosebud]

I'll say it. I'll do her. Fucknit, Why not?



I'll pass the word to BB

Fear and the urge toward self-preservation?

[nepg]

More importantly...Madonna...yes or no? I mean if you didn't know she was 74 you probably would....right????
Yes. Even knowing she has herpes (obvious).

[nepg]

Just no... That gap between her teeth is such a ******* turnoff. I'd rather **** a bear trap than her tbh.
Think of what she can and will do with that gap....

[nepg]

You cannot be serious with this...
So the Giants weren't spotted 2 points and an extra possession?

[Razor]

Think of what she can and will do with that gap....

You do realise that I'm hung like a horse, right?

[nepg]

Dan Connolly >>>>> Koppen.

[nepg]

That was on Gronk. Don't call for that one, man!

[Razor]

That was on Gronk. Don't call for that one, man!

How was that ever on Gronk? Brady ****** up badly and paid for it. Good play by Blackburn.

[BradysKnee]

See you guys in Antarctica.

[Jvig43]

Deion Bracnh And Wes Welker can go burn in the deepest parts of Hell. Both of those ******* god damn ass holes lost us that ******* game with their useless stupid ******* drops. This is the ******* super bowl you stupid *****, catch the ******* ball.

[BradysKnee]

Deion Bracnh And Wes Welker can go burn in the deepest parts of Hell. Both of those ******* god damn ass holes lost us that ******* game with their useless stupid ******* drops. This is the ******* super bowl you stupid *****, catch the ******* ball.

Yep. Can't fault tom today. Future looks good though if we use our draft picks on a defense.

[Razor]

Yep. Can't fault tom today. Future looks good though if we use our draft picks on a defense.

And maybe some receivers who can actually catch a ******* ball. I'm heartbroken, boys... I don't know what to do with myself right now. :(

[BradysKnee]

And maybe some receivers who can actually catch a ******* ball. I'm heartbroken, boys... I don't know what to do with myself right now. :(

I'm going to get hammered. Talk to you guys later. Welker could've ******* ended it ****.

[Jvig43]

Yeah Idk what the hell to do right now. Seriously if Welker catches that ball and we convert we go onto win. If Deion catches that ball at midfield we have a serious chance of scoring. But no, we go back to making sure Brady doesn't have any real WRs and try to dink and dunk our way to a SB win. **** I'm pissed right now.

[Vaylor]

Oh well time to focus on the draft.

[Razor]

Yeah Idk what the hell to do right now. Seriously if Welker catches that ball and we convert we go onto win. If Deion catches that ball at midfield we have a serious chance of scoring. But no, we go back to making sure Brady doesn't have any real WRs and try to dink and dunk our way to a SB win. **** I'm pissed right now.

That's exactly how I feel. WW better give a big ******* discount when he negotiates his new contract Branch can go french kiss a train at top speed.

[Razor]

****, it's 4 AM here and there's no way that I can sleep right now. Life sucks... I guess I could always wake up the gf and get some pitty sex, but I just don't feel like it... FML... This hurts, we had them. We ****** up twice and gave them 9 points in the first quarter. The Brady ****** up on the INT, followed by receivers ******* up. I feel like we lost this more than the Giants won it, and it sucks.

[Vox Populi]

gg, replace branch and ocho and hope the defense improves and you'll be back next year as long as brady stays healthy.

[Nalej]

That's exactly how I feel. WW better give a big ******* discount when he negotiates his new contract Branch can go french kiss a train at top speed.

Every drop in the post season lowers your salary for the season by 50%.
If it happens in the Super Bowl, you just played the whole season for free.

[Jvig43]

gg, replace branch and ocho and hope the defense improves and you'll be back next year as long as brady stays healthy.

Very doubtful, we were very lucky the AFC sucked this year, not to mention the fact that the Raven choked a massive dick against us in the championship game. Our defense still sucks and now our WRs can't make any catches when it matters most. I'm not feeling very optimistic right now about getting back anytime soon.

[Vox Populi]

meh, I don't see the Ravens or Steelers improving at all next year with their age on defense. The AFC is a lot worse off than the NFC in terms of championship caliber teams imo. The only other team I could buy is Houston and thats still a bit tough for me to wrap my head around.

[Jvig43]

meh, I don't see the Ravens or Steelers improving at all next year with their age on defense. The AFC is a lot worse off than the NFC in terms of championship caliber teams imo. The only other team I could buy is Houston and thats still a bit tough for me to wrap my head around.

If Shuab was healthy, I'd say they would have won the AFC with the way their defense played in the post season. I just am being negative right now but I don't see what we have to look forward to. The draft? We havent drafted any break out player in a position of dire need that worked out for us in awhile now, and we never draft anyone us Pats fans hope for anyway (the majority of the time). I just don't think were going to easily get back to the top of the AFC with this team.

[Nalej]

Yea, Houston is the real threat in the AFC next year.
Still need to see what BB does to this defense. Odd or even front?
Stay in a hybrid like this year? A.Carter? M.Anderson?

Agree on the draft... what's the point of getting all hyped up when we keep coming up flat.

[Babylon]

You guys would be proud of me, i just got back from a party with some obnoxious Giants fans and i didnt punch anyone out, ok so you're not proud of me.

For me nothing will ever match the frustration of losing to the Raiders back in 77 but that's a whole nother subject.

If someone was to tell me it would come down to Wes Welker holding onto a ball down the middle of the field to pretty much seal the deal i would have said you were crazy.

At times like this i can only think about the lack of effort to get that premier outside pass rusher or WR in the draft. We always have April to look forward to, but we'll probably keep trading down and see how far we can go with a team full of second round picks.

Sorry for the rant, i want to kill my dog right now and he's smart enough to be hiding somewhere so there is no chance of that.

Congrats to the Gints, they deserved to win, i guess.

[ElectricEye]

Deion Bracnh And Wes Welker can go burn in the deepest parts of Hell. Both of those ******* god damn ass holes lost us that ******* game with their useless stupid ******* drops. This is the ******* super bowl you stupid *****, catch the ******* ball.

I'm going on sabbatical. Hopefully for a long time. Not sure I can go through with it, but this just really sucks. It's time like this when I really question if it's worth being a sports fan. But I digress, I was just stopping in to say that this is absolutely true. Brady played lights ******* out and those clowns pissed it away because they couldn't make plays in the big spots.

[Babylon]

I'm going on sabbatical. Hopefully for a long time. Not sure I can go through with it, but this just really sucks. It's time like this when I really question if it's worth being a sports fan. But I digress, I was just stopping in to say that this is absolutely true. Brady played lights ******* out and those clowns pissed it away because they couldn't make plays in the big spots.

I was worried you were going to take a header of the Prudential building but somehow we always come out the other side dont we.

I knew when Welker dropped that pass it was lights out.

[Nalej]

I knew when my sig happened that our season was over too

[Babylon]

I knew when my sig happened that our season was over too

The more i watch that play the more i think i could still make that catch at my age. How do you drop that?

[TACKLE]

I knew when my sig happened that our season was over too

why would you do that to yourself?

[descendency]

I fear for Tom Brady's life.

I mean, now that the Patriots are Super Bowl losers and he's basically the only thing keeping them going, obviously something bad is going to happen to him to keep NE out of the playoffs.

[HEISMANHERSCHEL]

I just wanted to stop by and say I am sorry for you guys. I can't imagine how bad it was watching Wes Welker of all people drop the nail in the coffin.

I can't imagine what it feels like. He is THE safest option on the field...It was shocking.

But You guys have been there 5 times in 10 years. There are a lot of teams that would trade with you.

[BradysKnee]

Yeah exactly. We had a good run, it had more ups than downs.

Considering our talent level we should be thrilled we won the AFC. We'll get back if BB decides to beef up the roster (finally) particularly on defense.

I'm not as pissed as I thought i'd be. I thought we played subpar, and so did the giants. We played as well as them and it came down to some stupid mistakes. Such is life.

I'm moving on to the draft. Wasn't a bad year ultimately.

[Nalej]

why would you do that to yourself?

I'm not sure. I'm on Facebook as well reading all the Giant fans cheers and all the **** talking posts on my wall as well.
There's no forgetting it, getting away from it... so I dwell in it.
I'm hoping that it'll lessen the heart brake sooner... but I doubt it.

My own ******* dad called me (he's from the Bronx) and said:
"Haha, you thought your Pats ever had a chance? Ha! Your patriots ******* suck! So how's the family?"

"We're fine, dad. I gotta go."

[Nalej]

I let the team down

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4717322/wes-welker-i-let-team-down

[Jvig43]

Yeah he absolutely let this ******* team down. Damn straight

[Don Vito]

Welker had an Asante moment and we lost. But we wouldn't be here if we didnt have him and nor would we in 2007. The fact that we made it to the SB is amazing, but I would rather have gone 0-16 then have the season end the way it did. Can't blame anyone individually just a team loss. This one stings more than any loss ive been around for.

[Don Vito]

This is tough. The notion the BB cant beat his old team and Brady cant beat the Giants really hurts. Front 7 isnt as bad as we thought, I think we need to go BPA all draft and not trade down. DB/WR/C/RB/LB/DL need to be upgraded

[AntoinCD]

After sleeping on it I feel less ****** off, still stings, but pretty much all of us agreed we probably weren't gonna do **** in the playoffs this year. A few guys even said as long as we don't go one and done then it's been somewhat of a success.

The reason why it hurts, and i'm taking nothing away from the Giants(Eli is a boss) but the Pats lost this game. That stpid safety at the start of the game meant on the Giants last drive they needed a field goal instead of a TD. In general the defense actually played pretty well. The Manningham catch looking back was just sensational. Perfect throw by Manning, finger tip catch while getting his shoulder pounded, toe tapping in bounds just before Chung lowers the boom.

But the offense killed us yesterday. I'm putting two big mistakes on Brady. The safety as I mentioned and the INT. Gronk against Blackburn he has to take 101 times out of 100 but it was just a poor throw. He underthrew it knowing that Gronk probably would struggle to go up and get it. Make sure if Gronk doesn't catch it no one does.

Then the drops. The ************* drops. Welker's drop was huge but Branch's and Hernandez's on the last drive were just as bad. Sure if Welker catches that we probably win but if Branch catches that first 20+ yarder then we're rolling with 45 seconds left in Giants territory.

Tough to swallow right now but we will be a better team next year. Lots of cap space to work with and not a lot of potential FAs.

By the way, why is Logan Mankins not getting more heat? When the game was on the line he couldn't block either Canty or Joseph. Everyone talks about their NASCAR front but they got held in check for the most part. But Brady was running for his life in the fourth quarter because of interior pressure.

[BradysKnee]

Offense did play poorly. I put alot of that on the WRs. There were way too many dropped passes. Welker knows he lost the game and hopefully works harder from it, but Branch, Ocho et al. were non existant.

Hern had a decent game, but I can only wonder how it would've been if Gronk couldve accelerated half decently.

We need to cut Branch and Ocho and pickup Lloyd and a deep guy in FA or less preferably the draft.

We gotta let BJGE go, hes decent but Ridley is nearly at his level and has way more upside and completely revamp our defensive backfield. I liked McCourty playing safety down the stretch but Idgh is all around bad, and Chung is just a hitter. I don't know how we address the secondary TBH. On paper we have Arrington Dowling and McCourty at corner as a front 3, which shouldn't be /that/ terrible. But clearly more talent is needed.

Safety is where we're missing that upper tier cover guy. Chung is only average in coverage and I think we should do whatever we can to secure a cover safety by any means.

The defensive line, I think this group has severe change this year. Alot of departures and I think we go draft heavy on the position.

Offensively I like where we're at outside of WR. This is actually a pretty easy fix given our draft/cap status.

I gotta like our chances going forward /if/ we actually fix things and stop saving for the day that never comes.

As for the super bowl, it was ******. But it stings ALOT less than 07 for me. I was just happy to be there with the talent we had. Both teams played pretty poorly and it wasn't a high quality super bowl. All came down to a stupid drop for us.

[cmarq83]

Well I think we can all agree that sucked hard.

I'm more ok with it then I initially was because when I look back on it, this team had no business winning the Superbowl. It only stings because we ended up playing a similarly flawed team that was able to make a few plays at the end, whereas we ****** them all up.

Coaching wise I have to give BB and the staff props. They were brilliant on defense and considering the front 4 barely got any pressure and the players in the secondary can't cover anyone besides Sterling Moore on occasion, their scheme for the game was fantastic. They took out Victor Cruz, hit the Giants receivers hard in zone coverage, and got players like Danny Woodhead involved which they needed to do. They dialed up the right plays on those last 2 drives, but the receivers straight up dropped them. From the second Welker dropped that past I knew we were screwed. When you're a team that wins superbowls your players need to make those types of plays. It's just a huge stomach punch because against the Giants Welker and Samuel can't make relatively easy plays whereas Tyree and Manningham make once in a lifetime catches.

I give props to the Giants because they didn't make any major mistakes, and the ones they did make they where able to recover (2 fumbles). I don't think the Giants were anywhere near as good as the media made them out to be this week, and for most of the game it seemed as if the Patriots offense would end up getting on track and break the game wide open, but it didn't happen.

If we're going to win another Superbowl it's going to come down to a couple of things that need to stop happening.

1) Receivers need to hold on to the freaking ball! Whether it has been Welker, Branch, Crumpler, or Reche Cauldwell we've been plagued by huge drops in recent years.

2) The defense/special teams needs to get us the ball on the opponents side of the field. We've given the offense a lot of crap, but it's a bit unrealistic to expect them to drive 80+ yards down the field 4-5 times a game.

3) Bernard Pollard needs to stay away from the Patriots. Brady, Welker, and Gronk. I cringe thinking about who it could be next.

4) Our big $ players need to show up in big games. Mankins has played like a joke in the past 2 superbowls, Mayo although he forced a fumble was largely invisible, and Wilfork had a subpar game by his standards. These guys have contracts around $150 million combined, but they certainly didn't play like it.

5) Finally some good old fashioned luck. We got some against Cundiff and in 2006 we had the Chargers game, but if we're evenly matched luck can be the determining factor. It was in 2007 for sure, and the Giants were fortunate a couple of times in this game. It's difficult to win when you're not the team getting some breaks along the way.

Congrats to the Giants they have some big time players on that team. Once we get a few more we'll be able to get another one. How long that takes? Who knows.

[AntoinCD]

I thought the defensive game plan was brilliant. Cruz was a non factor and would not have scored his TD had Mayo played the ball instead of focusing on Cruz. If Mayo turns his head it is at worst a field goal and at best a pick 6.

Brandon Spikes had a Jekyll and Hyde performance. Obviously BB decided he was going to let him be aggressive and shoot gaps and fill lanes and he made some great tackles. He arm tackled the 265lb Brandon Jacobs at one stage, while being blocked. But, particularly in the end of the first/start of the second the Giants were able to exploit his over aggressiveness by running counters and such to the outside. This also provided more evidence of our lack of overall speed on defense.

It hurt the pass rush that we had one DE playing and a whole lot of DTs. Anderson played well but when the second best pass rusher is Rob Ninkovich it's a bad sign. Neither Wilfork or Love got anything going up the middle. In fact Wilfork got dominated pretty much all game.

I can't really complain about the secondary. Chung frustrates me at times before he also seems a little late to react. The one good hit on Nicks would have been a catch had Manning not delayed a fraction. Ihedigbo didn't do anything of note either good or bad. Moore and Molden made some nice plays but they just aren't talented enough to cut it.

[BradysKnee]

The offenses problems can be centered on the WR corp.

The defense is much more difficult to pinpoint the exact problem(s).

[AntoinCD]

Well if you break it down by position or even scheme

43

DE-Carter and Anderson will both hopefully be back and should keep up their form from this year. Jermaine Cunningham will hopefully be healthy as well. If one of the better pass rushers becomes available in the draft I would not be opposed to taking them.

DT-VW probably should play less snaps IMO. Kyle Love should be his back up at the nose. The problem is there is no 3 tech/Under Tackle type to play beside Wilfork so he even plays that role. Gerard Warren, Ron Brace, Myron Pryor etc provide ok depth. A difference maker would be ideal.

OLB-Mayo is extremely solid at WILL. I would prefer him to be more of a playmaker but he is what he is. Ninkovich does his job but will never be more than a decent guy. Donta Hightower would be a big upgrade at SAM and give a bit more versatility.

ILB-Spikes brings a nasty attitude and can set the tone. Hopefully he can find the right balance between aggressive and out of control. Fletcher is a great guy to have as a backup. Mayo also slides inside in a 34 set so ILB is set IMO.

CB-I don't know what to make of McCourty. If he can get somewhere in between this year and last year I would be happy enough. Dowling has always had injury problems but looked like a stud when he played. Arrington could be a great slot CB with his physicality. Moore and Molden should really be depth players. I would take either an elite athlete or playmaker in the draft here. Janoris Jenkins and Stephon Gilmore should be close to where we pick.

Safety-I'm tempted to say just tear it up and start again. Chung brings so much that I like but he just can't play the pass. If BB decided to go for someone to stay home at FS and use Chung as a SS then he could be an impact player. But BB loves safeties who can be both. I would prefer Markelle Martin in the second but I feel if Barron is available at 27 BB will take him and if not would go for Harrison Smith or George Iloka over Martin.

34

The back end would have the same concerns.

5 technique-Do the Pats have anyone on their roster except Wilfork who would be an impact 5 technique? I don't believe they do. If they go back to a 3 man front someone like Brockers if available would be nice, or maybe Jared Crick later on. Brace and Deaderick are just guys.

NT-Could, and should be the strength of the defense. Wilfork is the premier NT in the NFL and Kyle Love is more than adequate as a back up.

OLB-It would all depend on how they view Mark Anderson. If he is comfortable in space he could definitely be the weakside OLB standing up. If not they need to get one. Andre Branch, Nick Perry??? Ninkovich could be upgraded on the strong side as well. Once again the best option may be Hightower. Cunningham needs to stay healthy too as he can play either role.

ILB-Very good situation here. Good to very good starters and nice depth.

[Bigburt63]

I have come to a few conclusions:

1, i hope somebody puts their helmet directly on the side of bernard
pollards knee and ends his career.

2, The O line played a pretty good game overall.  the run blocking was
effective for the most part, if not spectacular, and brady had for the
most part, a pretty clean pocket.  1 of the sacks was clearly a
coverage sack.  granted brady had to do quite a bit of moving around
in the pocket but you cannot reasonably expect to have 0 rush all game
against anyone.

3, Brady played a pretty good game.  his numbers, while not eye
popping, were solid and he played a good game.  he hit welker at the
end, and if welker holds onto the ball, we win.  straight up, that was
a game winning catch.  the giants had 1 time out left, there were like
3 minutes on the clock and that would have put us well within field
goal range, with an obvious chance at the end zone.  Then on the last
drive, he hits branch, who drops it, then hernandez, who drops it.
can't blame him for that.  all of this with an altered offense (see
point 1)

4, The offensive playcalling was unimaginitive.  there was one screen,
which was nice, but overall it just seemed very conservative and at
times, down right predictable.  part of this, im sure, was due to the
fact that gronk was basically a shell of himself (i hate bernard
pollard more than anyone).  why did we go away from the no huddle
hurry up?  end of the first half, no huddle and we score.  beginning
of the second half, no huddle and we score. then we...stop?

5, The team plays just as they are drafted.  The team is filled with a
bunch of average to very good players, but there is almost no elite
talent.  Brady, Gronk are the only elite talents.  Mayo, Wilfork,
Chung, Mankins, Hernandez are very good but not elite players.  For
the love of all things sacred, please stop trading down and draft some
elite talent (and yes, i am fully aware of the irony in that the 2
elite players were drafted after the first round).

6, The defense is just terrible.  They played ok at best yesterday,
but I would put the majority of the blame on them.  The best you can
reasonably expect from this defense is a mid length drive, and hold
them to a long field goal attempt or a punt, and hope for a touchback.
They simply cannot get off the field....ever.  I'm not a fan of how
they rank defenses by yards allowed, and agree when people say 'well
the ranking doesn't tell the whole story, they aren't that low ranked
in points allowed.'  yes, but points allowed doesnt tell the whole
story either.  giving the offense a long field to drive every time is
almost as bad as giving up the score.  essentially, in a tight game
like yesterday, the patriots are simply unable to play the field
position game.  no matter where the opponent starts with the ball,
they are gonna go right down the field.  you can't predicate your
whole defense on forcing turnovers or only getting stops in the red
zone.  for one, it tires the defense out to run that many plays, and 2
it keeps the ball away from brady and the offense.  if they arent
firing on all cylinders then the defense cannot prop up the team.
they are a sieve and in need of a HUGE infusion of talent at almost
every position.  Tracey white should never...EVER see the field on
defense.  they are a big front 7 which is great when you are playing
against the run, but simply terrible at getting to the passer on a
consistent basis, and thus you leave your below average secondary out
to dry.

7, nobody stepped up to make a play yesterday, on either side of the
ball.  nobody on defense stood up and got the defense going with a big
play.  nobody on offense stepped up in a big moment and delivered.
the void of a big playmaker was very evident yesterday.

all of that crap and it was still a close game.

going to the draft, i see the needs as follows:

S- chung is good.  nobody else is.

OLB/DE both 4-3 and 3-4 - somebody needs to be able to rush the
passer.  there is nobody on the roster who can do this...maybe mark
anderson.....maybe.  we also need more athleticism up front.  we rush
4 300lb guys at the passer and wonder why we dont get any pressure.

WR - branch did almost nothing yesterday, i think ocho will be back so
they can see if he learned the playbook in the offseason but he is
old.  they do not have a deep threat, someone who is capable of
keeping the defense honest.

C - just because connolly and koppen are FA's.  i would say guard but
i think cannon will move there in the offseason and be a bulldog next
year.

TE - can we please get some sort of backup for gronk, you know, just
in case he gets hurt or something?

[Bigburt63]

Sorry for the format. My phone messed it up

[Nalej]

OLB/DE, FS, Deepthreat

Really, if we address these positions... there's no stopping us.
A backup for Gronk would be nice as well, as Bighurt suggested.

[Don Vito]

I know nobody expected us to do anything in the playoffs because of our personnel, but lets be honest we should have won that game. So many plays just bit us in the ass, not just Welkers drop.

-Ninkovich going offsides on the 3rd and 7, they didnt convert but after the penalty they did.

-Ihedigbo wiffing on the Bradshaw fumble.

-Mayo on the Cruz TD

-The safety

-Too many men on the field for the Cruz fumble

Plain and simple we had the game. People act like we didn't deserve to be there, that is BS. Sure we had a lot of fill in type players but we also have a **** ton of talent and a coach and system that got us there.

[cmarq83]

I know nobody expected us to do anything in the playoffs because of our personnel, but lets be honest we should have won that game. So many plays just bit us in the ass, not just Welkers drop.

-Ninkovich going offsides on the 3rd and 7, they didnt convert but after the penalty they did.

-Ihedigbo wiffing on the Bradshaw fumble.

-Mayo on the Cruz TD

-The safety

-Too many men on the field for the Cruz fumble

Plain and simple we had the game. People act like we didn't deserve to be there, that is BS. Sure we had a lot of fill in type players but we also have a **** ton of talent and a coach and system that got us there.

It's what has made all these seasons so tragic, so many stupid little things that get in the way. It's not like they have been soundly beaten in any game except the Ravens game and that one against the Broncos either. It's just a string of really bad circumstances like:

2006: Samuel pass interference penalty that gets rescinded by the league, Reche's horrendous drop, no call on pass interference in the endzone against Jackson.

2007: We all remember most of them :(

2008: Knee injury

2010: Crumpler drop, fumble of the snap on that fake punt.

2011: Welker drop, Branch drops, all the things Vito mentioned.

We should have at least one more than we do. I feel like we'll still get another one before BB and Brady retire, but **** for as good as it's been record wise it's been difficult to watch them lose like this.

Still we need to take a step back every now and appreciate what's going on. Even without SB victories it's still amazing to win 80% of our games year in and year out.

[descendency]

-Mayo on the Cruz TD

I'm not mad at Mayo for the play (bad stuff happens once in a while), but the Patriots don't practice getting their head around enough.

The back 7 are terrible about this. McCourty went from being a very good corner to bad this year and Darius Butler just never developed because no one seems to be able to find the ball when it's in the air. One major reason is they are too focused on the receiver.

[Razor]

OLB/DE, FS, Deepthreat

Really, if we address these positions... there's no stopping us.
A backup for Gronk would be nice as well, as Bighurt suggested.

Screw a backup, I want two Gronks out there. If we can get Fleener in the second I want him. There would be no defending Gronk, Hernandez and Fleener + WW and a deep threat.

[bored of education]

Solid game guys. I am not going to be a hater or jerk but I want to point about in regards to drops, not recovering fumbles, etc..you guys thrived on the ball bouncing your way for 4 years. Sometimes it's just not your time. Brady is a stud yes. you need some O line. Solder was a turnstile, Light was mediocre, Mankins sucked balls and I don't remember anything else. YOu need a stretch the field playmaker. Secondary, DEs that don't rely on semi-coverage sacks.

Who the **** am I kidding. You guys have a few years left with Brady I would go all in getting a player like Vincent Jackson. I think you play maker like that changes everything. Obviously you can address D via draft, FA.

[BradysKnee]

Solid game guys. I am not going to be a hater or jerk but I want to point about in regards to drops, not recovering fumbles, etc..you guys thrived on the ball bouncing your way for 4 years. Sometimes it's just not your time. Brady is a stud yes. you need some O line. Solder was a turnstile, Light was mediocre, Mankins sucked balls and I don't remember anything else. YOu need a stretch the field playmaker. Secondary, DEs that don't rely on semi-coverage sacks.

Who the **** am I kidding. You guys have a few years left with Brady I would go all in getting a player like Vincent Jackson. I think you play maker like that changes everything. Obviously you can address D via draft, FA.

Is Bowe getting tagged? lol. Would like him.

[Nalej]

Who the **** am I kidding. You guys have a few years left with Brady I would go all in getting a player like Vincent Jackson. I think you play maker like that changes everything. Obviously you can address D via draft, FA.

Man, I'm ******* hoping!

Also, I'm thinking that 85 will still be a Pat next year.
Has a year under the belt trying to learn our system.
Give him a full offseason as well... I think he can put up Branch type numbers.
Obviously I'm expecting Branch to be let go.

[descendency]

Man, I'm ******* hoping!

Also, I'm thinking that 85 will still be a Pat next year.
Has a year under the belt trying to learn our system.
Give him a full offseason as well... I think he can put up Branch type numbers.
Obviously I'm expecting Branch to be let go.

85's cap number is 6 million. He's going to be cut.

[Nalej]

I keep reading that it's 3 million. Where are you getting 6?
Also, I know 3 is still too much but I don't see how he doesn't restructure to stay

[Razor]

I think 85 had a 6 mill cap figure when he got here, but that was changed iirc. I wouldn't be opposed to getting Vincent Jackson, but I wouldn't break the bank for him either. He just doesn't seem like a team first kinda guy. We do need a deep threat though... Here's a list of free agents: (http://nfltraderumors.co/nfltr-features/2011022012-nfl-free-agents/)


Early Doucet – ARI
Harry Douglas – ATL
Eric Weems – ATL
Brandon Jones – BAL
Roscoe Parrish – BUF
Steve Johnson – BUF
Wallace Wright – CAR
Legedu Naanee – CAR
Earl Bennett – CHI
Roy Williams – CHI
Andre Caldwell – CIN
Jerome Simpson – CIN
Demetrius Williams – CLE
Kevin Ogletree – DAL (R)
Laurent Robinson – DAL
Eddie Royal – DEN
Matt Willis – DEN (R)
Bryant Johnson – DET
Rashied Davis – DET
Derrick Williams – DET (R)
Stefan Logan – DET (R)
David Anderson - HOU
Anthony Gonzalez – IND
Reggie Wayne – IND
Pierre Garcon – IND
Tiquan Underwood – JAC (R)
Mike Sims-Walker – JAC
Jerheme Urban – KC
Dwayne Bowe - KC
Greg Camarillo – MIN
Juaquin Iglesias – MIN
Devin Aromashodu – MIN
Bernard Berrian – MIN
Deion Branch - NE
Wes Welker – NE
Matt Slater – NE
Marques Colston - NO
Robert Meachem – NO
Devin Thomas – NYG
Domenik Hixon – NYG
Mario Manningham - NYG
Patrick Turner – NYJ (R)
Plaxico Burress – NYJ
Chaz Schilens – OAK
Derek Hagan – OAK
DeSean Jackson – PHI
Limas Sweed – PIT
Jerricho Cotchery – PIT
Mike Wallace – PIT (R)
Patrick Crayton – SD
Craig Davis – SD
Vincent Jackson – SD
Isaiah Stanback – SEA
Ted Ginn Jr – SF
Braylon Edwards – SF
Josh Morgan – SF
Dominique Zeigler – SF
Donnie Avery – STL
Danny Amendola – STL (R)
Brandon Lloyd – STL
Micheal Spurlock – TB
Justin Gage – TEN
Kevin Curtis – TEN
Donnie Avery – TEN
Lavelle Hawkins – TEN
Malcolm Kelly – WAS
Roydell Williams – WAS

I've highlighed who I'd really like to have...

[Matthew Jones]

Steve Johnson would be great considering how much trouble he gave Darrelle Revis this season and because signing Johnson would weaken the Bills. Pierre Garcon and Robert Meachem would be nice signings. Vincent Jackson is someone who the Patriots may be interested in considering his size and that he torched New England's secondary this season. Paying Jackson may end up being a bad idea considering his multiple arrests though; he seems like a player who might mail it in after his big pay day as well. Brandon Lloyd seems like the most likely option considering his relationship with McDaniels. One sleeper would be Braylon Edwards. Despite his reputation he is an intelligent player with size who can get open downfield, and after his weak 2011 season he could probably be had pretty cheap.

[Razor]

Yeah, I really considered Edwards for us as well. I just think his inconsistent hands and undisciplined route running would take him out of the equation for us.

[AntoinCD]

The way I see it there are two possible ways that BB goes forward from this. I have them rated about a 80/20 ratio.

Option 1-Most Likely

Resign Welker
Resign Branch
Resign Anderson
Resign Carter
Sign Brandon Lloyd
Draft heavily on the defensive side

Option 2-Less Likely

Opt not to resign Welker to keep extra cap space
Resign Mark Anderson
Make a big defensive splash in Free Agency-Mario Williams/Brent Grimes etc
Draft BPA including possibly trading up for an impact player, Michael Floyd etc

Both ways are possiblities IMO. Option 1 seems more likely because that is BB's usual way of doing things. However there is a precedence of him making a big splash after a game like this. In 2007 he went out of his way to get Moss, Welker and Stallworth.

The WR issue at the moment is troubling but not as much as the defense. BB may decide to go all out on defense to get better.

[FlyingElvis]

Painful. Everything about that game was uninspiring. Miqueues and mistakes combined with zero playmaking ability . . . fun stuff.

BB deserves and award for getting this far despite an atrocious defensive roster. He also deserves a slap for said atrocious defensive roster.

I agree with the sentiment expressed by a few already - forcing the offense to play full field football on every drive is a joke. Bend but don't break is merely a nice way to say we only have enough talent on that side of the ball to cover 20 yards.

Defensive talent, please. White, Ninko, and pretty much everyone not named Wilfork would only see the field on ST for any other teams. Once again I have to wonder what BB saw that made James Sanders expendable. Personnel moves must improve defensively.

[Matthew Jones]

53-man roster projection based on current roster (players in bold are projected to be replaced in the offseason):

1. QB Tom Brady
2. QB Brian Hoyer
3. QB Ryan Mallett
4. RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis
5. RB Stevan Ridley
6. RB Shane Vereen
7. RB Danny Woodhead
8. WR Deion Branch
9. WR Julian Edelman
10. WR Chad Ochocinco
11. WR Matthew Slater
12. WR Tiquan Underwood
13. WR Wes Welker
14. TE Rob Gronkowski
15. TE Aaron Hernandez
16. OT Marcus Cannon
17. OT Matt Light
18. OT Nate Solder
19. OT Sebastian Vollmer
20. OG Logan Mankins
21. OG Rich Ohrnberger
22. OG Brian Waters
23. OG Ryan Wendell
24. C Dan Connolly
25. C Dan Koppen
26. DL Mark Anderson
27. DL Andre Carter
28. DL Markell Carter
29. DL Brandon Deaderick
30. DL Kyle Love
31. DL Myron Pryor
32. DL Alex Silvestro
33. DL Gerard Warren
34. DL Vince Wilfork
35. LB Dane Fletcher
36. LB Niko Koutouvides
37. LB Jerod Mayo
38. LB Rob Ninkovich
39. LB Brandon Spikes
40. LB Jeff Tarpinian
41. LB Tracy White
42. DB Kyle Arrington
43. DB Josh Barrett
44. DB Sergio Brown
45. DB Patrick Chung
46. DB Ras-I Dowling
47. DB James Ihedigbo
48. DB Devin McCourty
49. DB Antwaun Molden
50. DB Sterling Moore
51. K Stephen Gostkowski
52. P Zoltan Mesko
53. LS Danny Aiken

Omissions:

QB Mike Hartline, RB Kevin Faulk, FB Lousaka Polite, WR Britt Davis, OL Kyle Hix, OL Matt Kopa, OL Nick McDonald, OL Donald Thomas, DL Ron Brace, DL Jermaine Cunningham, DL Shaun Ellis, DL Mike Wright, LB Christian Cox, LB Gary Guyton, LB Aaron Lavarias, LB Mike Rivera, DB Nate Jones, DB Ross Ventrone, DB Malcolm Williams

[Vaylor]

For all the rightful talk about the 2 Pats TEs, neither was on field for 3rd and 11 after Welker play. Brady left with 39, 77, 83, 84, 85.
- @GregABedard

This can't possibily be true. What the hell?

[Razor]

I just tried to mock the Patriots' offseason. Let me know what you think!

New England Patriots
2012 cap space used: $101,827,381
Remaining cap space: $23,172,619


Free agents (blue players are retained, green players are traded, purple players retire):
Mark Anderson
Deion Branch
Andre Carter
Kevin Faulk
Shaun Ellis
Dan Connolly
BenJarvus Green-Ellis
Gary Guyton
Brian Hoyer*
James Ihedigbo
Nate Jones
Dan Koppen
Bret Lockett*
Kyle Love**
Niko Koutouvides
Antwaun Molden
Matthew Slater
Gerard Warren
Tracy White
Wes Welker

Patriots cuts:
Lousaka Polite
Mike Wright
Josh Barrett
Rich Orhnberger
Chad Ochocinco

Signed FAs:
Brandon Lloyd, WR, 3 years $8.5 mill. w/$3 mill. guaranteed
Terrell Thomas, CB, 3 years $14 mill. w/$6 mill. guaranteed
Michael Griffin, FS, 5 years $25 mill. w/$13 mill. guaranteed

Draft:
1a. Michael Brockers, DE/DT, LSU (Patriots give up #27 + #48 + future second round pick)
1b. Andre Branch, DE/OLB, Clemson
2. Harrison Smith, S, Notre Dame
3. Tommy Streeter, WR, Miami (Fl.)
4. Shea McClellin, DE/OLB, Boise State

There are undoubtedly some things wrong with this but I guess I needed to start the healing process somewhere and then build on it. How'd you like for this to happen?

[Vaylor]

- Why both Lloyd and Colston? It would make more sense just to get one of them considering we only run two WRs in the base offense.

- I wouldn't mind seeing BenJarvus Green-Ellis leave. I think the other 3 RBs bring more to the table.

- What spot did the Patriots trade to get Brockers?

- While I like the first 3 draft picks, I am not a fan of the last two. Streeter is a project receiver and this team doesn't have a lot of patience when it comes to young receivers.

- I don't think it is necessary to draft two DE/OLBs. I would rather have a OG/OC there.

[Razor]

- Why both Lloyd and Colston? It would make more sense just to get one of them considering we only run two WRs in the base offense.

- I wouldn't mind seeing BenJarvus Green-Ellis leave. I think the other 3 RBs bring more to the table.

- What spot did the Patriots trade to get Brockers?

- While I like the first 3 draft picks, I am not a fan of the last two. Streeter is a project receiver and this team doesn't have a lot of patience when it comes to young receivers.

- I don't think it is necessary to draft two DE/OLBs. I would rather have a OG/OC there.

I know getting both Lloyd and Colston is somewhat luxurious but there's a reason for this madness. What we need on offense is threats in the short, the intermediate and the long passing game. We get that this way WITH speed, plus we have two of the best TEs in the game. You have one of the best QBs to ever play the games for maybe 3 or more years. I want to take advantage of that.

I wouldn't mind not re-signing BJGE either, but I think that BB really likes him and wants to keep him around.

I have no idea which specific spot we have to get up to in order to get Brockers, but I'm think somewhere on the 15-20 range. Streeter has tons of upside and would've probably been a early second round pick next year - maybe even a first rounder. He's big, strong and deceptively fast. It's becoming more and more clear that you need big, strong receivers in the modern NFL. We don't have any... Streeter is also good value at this point and should develop nicely with WW, Llyod and Colston as mentors.

I wanted two DE/OLBs because I want the pass rushers to be fresh late in the fourth. I want a rotation of good pass rusher who are not a liability against the run. I feel like we get that this way. Basically, we've fixed the defense if it turns out like this (at least on paper). On top of that we've increased the explosiveness on a already very explosive offense.

[Matthew Jones]

Watching Branch and Carter go would hurt, and it might be a better idea to re-sign Tracy White than Niko Koutouvides from a special teams perspective. Brandon Lloyd seems like he comes a little bit cheap on there relative to what he's expected to be paid. Not a fan of the Colston signing at all considering his extensive history of knee surgeries and injuries; way too big of a risk and commitment to make. Calais Campbell would probably be worth it but it's hard to imagine paying an outsider more money than Wilfork or Mayo. Terrell Thomas seems a little overpaid and so does Michael Griffin. There's no way the Patriots are going to sign that many big-money free agents. The trade-up for Michael Brockers seems like way too much as well; he's getting severely overrated due to his size. If he's available at #27, great, if not, no big deal. He's a limited pass rusher (two career sacks) and a sophomore. New England is projected to trade away three starters for one in that draft. Branch and Harrison Smith would be okay, but Streeter would be a weird fit in New England's offense and the Patriots would already have a number of receiving options there. Shea McClellin would be great but that's at least a round or two after he'll probably go. The team would be stacked if that offseason occurred but it could best be described as ludicrous to project Belichick to sign numerous big-money free agents and trade up with a significant amount of draft picks.

[Razor]

Why is it so unrealistic that McClellin is available in the fourth? Is it his limited upside that intrigues you so much? Or maybe his mediocre athleticism. To me he's a high motor player that is best suited to be a rotational player or a spot starter. Also, I don't see how Streeter does not fit in the Patriots' offense. He's not a polished route runner, but you wouldn't really expect that given his limited experience would you? He has loads of upside which is why I took him. I pondered Koutouvides vs. White for a while, but I just felt like Koutouvides would provide much of the same for a lower cost. I don't think this is overpaying for any of the players. I upped some of their salaries because I didn't want to paint a completely unrealistic picture. Thomas is a very good corner and Griffin is a good safety. We need both and we don't have the time to wait for our own guys to develop.

This whole FA mock was based upon the Patriots needing to make a splash in order to maximize their chances in the short run. The last time BB made a splash was in the wake of the 2006 meltdown against the Colts. I could see BB being aggressive again this year.

Colston was the one guy that I really wasn't sure of, but he will fit here and could bring a lot to this team. I don't care if we already have WW and Lloyd in the fold. Brady needs options on the outside, and Colston is one of the better players outside the numbers.

Lastly, I think you're undervaluing Brockers by a lot. I think he's a perfect scheme fit and has more upside than any other DL in the draft. I don't care that he isn't a good pass rusher at this point, he's only a RS sophomore. Pepper Johnson is good at developing D-linemen and we so need help at DE. Getting both Campbell and Brockers would solidify the DL for years to come and give our OLBs a fighting chance to actually generate consistent pressure.

[Nalej]

CC is getting franchised by AZ though

[AntoinCD]

CC is getting franchised by AZ though

Any link to this or are you assuming it?

I would be surprised if they would want to pay top 5 DE money to a guy who is playing 5 tech. And it's not like he's Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith good either.

[Razor]

Any link to this or are you assuming it?

I would be surprised if they would want to pay top 5 DE money to a guy who is playing 5 tech. And it's not like he's Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith good either.

Oh, he's good. To me he's the best 3-4 DE in the league as long as Seymour is playing DT. And it's not even close. He's absolutely dominant at his position, but nobody's noticing it since he's playing in Arizona. I'd happily pay him this amount.

[AntoinCD]

Oh, he's good. To me he's the best 3-4 DE in the league as long as Seymour is playing DT. And it's not even close. He's absolutely dominant at his position, but nobody's noticing it since he's playing in Arizona. I'd happily pay him this amount.

I like Campbell a whole lot but I'm not sure he's worth Dwight Freeney type money.

[Nalej]

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/cardinals_will_use_the_franchise_tag_on_de_calais_ campbell/9578810

via CBSports

[Don Vito]

Stanford Routt released by Raiders. I don't think we would spend as much on him as he wants, but another corner on the market. I would really like Terrell Thomas.

[BradysKnee]

Stanford Routt released by Raiders. I don't think we would spend as much on him as he wants, but another corner on the market. I would really like Terrell Thomas.

I'd much rather a rookie cornerback. Sign a FA safety.
I still have nightmares of Deltha.

[Nalej]

I'm guessing he doesn't require a big contract since he made a butt ton in guarantees on his previous one, no?

[Razor]

Stanford Routt released by Raiders. I don't think we would spend as much on him as he wants, but another corner on the market. I would really like Terrell Thomas.

Thomas is my FA CB for the Pats as well. Great fit and a player that is well coached...

[Razor]

Alright, with Nalej's link and the fact that I just realized that Colston is near 30 I removed both Calais Campbell and Marques Colston from the FA signings. I also adjusted the salary for Michael Griffin. Who else do we sign in FA? No way we're only bringing in three guys.

[RLundgaard]

Alright, with Nalej's link and the fact that I just realized that Colston is near 30 I removed both Calais Campbell and Marques Colston from the FA signings. I also adjusted the salary for Michael Griffin. Who else do we sign in FA? No way we're only bringing in three guys.

I would like to see a guy like Manny Lawson, former 49´ers, now Benglas in Patriots.
Manny Lawson has great speed, but hi has never become that player 49´ers hoped when they drafted him..

If we can sign Manny Lawson for a 2 or 3 year deal, with upfront money, i would like to see what his speed can bring to our defence.

What do you think about Manny Lawson? And what kind of money do you think we are takling about?

[Razor]

Lawson is probably an outsider, but I would hate to bring him in. He's a terrible pass rusher at best so I'd prefer to stay away from him.

[Nalej]

Pass rushing sucks but he's supposedly good at setting the edge. BB loves **** like that. Doubt we go after him but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Nalej]

Some raider fans are expecting Seymour to be cut (or wouldn't be surprised if it happened)
Not that it'll happen, but if it did, would he be welcomed back in NE?

[Razor]

Some raider fans are expecting Seymour to be cut (or wouldn't be surprised if it happened)
Not that it'll happen, but if it did, would he be welcomed back in NE?

I'm pretty sure we'd take him, but I''m not sure he'd want to come back. He was pretty pissed at BB when he got traded.

[Nalej]

Ah, true. Didn't think that deep into it.
With McD coming back, I figured we might as well have an all out reunion lol

[FlyingElvis]

May as well bring Romeo and Ty Law back, too. lol

But yeah, Seymour was pretty butthurt about the whole thing. I'd be surprised if he'd come back.

[Nalej]

Hey, I was rooting against the Chiefs at the end of the season hoping they'd let Romeo go.

I miss him :(

[Babylon]

I'm pretty sure we'd take him, but I''m not sure he'd want to come back. He was pretty pissed at BB when he got traded.


It's amazing how fast people bury the hatchet when there's money involved.

[BradysKnee]

This was a good list I saw with every teams projected cap numbers for 2012 (minus any cuts etc) -- http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

We're in really good position to be 30-35 mil under the cap after some cuts etc. So hopefully we see BB be aggressive and go after some impact guys. 30-35 mil is no chump change. Even if we resign Welker etc we'd be about 26-27 under.

We could theoretically add 2-3 impact guys in FA and hopefully more in the draft. I can only pray BB takes advantage of this years bitchin FA class and brings in some significant new talent.

[descendency]

This was a good list I saw with every teams projected cap numbers for 2012 (minus any cuts etc) -- http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

We're in really good position to be 30-35 mil under the cap after some cuts etc. So hopefully we see BB be aggressive and go after some impact guys. 30-35 mil is no chump change. Even if we resign Welker etc we'd be about 26-27 under.

We could theoretically add 2-3 impact guys in FA and hopefully more in the draft. I can only pray BB takes advantage of this years bitchin FA class and brings in some significant new talent.

If the Patriots can't sign welker before the season, his franchise tag will cost 9.4 million.

Where are you getting that extra 9-15 million from? Who are they cutting that opens up that much cap (I assume Chad, but who else)

Some raider fans are expecting Seymour to be cut (or wouldn't be surprised if it happened)
Not that it'll happen, but if it did, would he be welcomed back in NE?

Oh hell yes. Please. I hope things between him and bill have cooled a bit. A 1 year with a 2-3 year option would be awesome.

[cmarq83]

If the Patriots can't sign welker before the season, his franchise tag will cost 9.4 million.

Where are you getting that extra 9-15 million from? Who are they cutting that opens up that much cap (I assume Chad, but who else)


My guess would be Ocho, Light, Wright, Barrett, and Brace. Almost $11,000,000 right there.

[BradysKnee]

If the Patriots can't sign welker before the season, his franchise tag will cost 9.4 million.

Where are you getting that extra 9-15 million from? Who are they cutting that opens up that much cap (I assume Chad, but who else)



Oh hell yes. Please. I hope things between him and bill have cooled a bit. A 1 year with a 2-3 year option would be awesome.

Excluding Welker ATM, The patriots could cut Matt Light (5mil), Ocho(2mil) and Mike Wright(2.4mil) and be at about 30 mil under.

Let's say we resign the following:

Wes Welker: 7mil (which i am totally not convinced we do)
Mark Anderson: Let Go
Andre Carter: 1.2mil
Deion Branch: Let Go
BJGE: Let Go
Faulk: Retires
Connolly: 1mil
Warren: Let Go
Ellis: Let Go
Guyton: Let Go
Slater: 1mil
Idgheibo:Let Go
Molden:Let Go
White:Let Go
Niko Kou:Let Go

This brings us back down to 20mil under.

Our draft picks will cost:
1 1st - 1.3 mil
3 2nds - 2.4mil
Rest - 2 mil

Leaving us 14 mil for free agents barring unexpected events or a non welker resigning (which I am honestly thinking might be a positive at this point).

Guys we might want:

Vjax: 7mil
Stevie Johnson: 5.5mil
Dwayne Bowe: 6mil
Robert Mathis: 3-4mil
Tyvon Branch: 3mil
Michael Griffin: 3mil
Marques Colston: 6-7mil
Dashon Goldson: 3-4mil [I'd love this guy]
Reggie Wayne: 3mil
Mario Williams: 8mil

So we could sign a big name like Vjax and a Branch, Griffin, and some smaller names, or more likely someone like Reggie Wayne, Steve Johnson coupled with Goldson, Mathis etc.

I'd personally be pumped if we signed Steve Johnson+Goldson+Mathis(or resign Andre Carter) + Some def talent in the draft.

[Matthew Jones]

BradysKnee, those free agent numbers look very wishful. Keep in mind that Brandon Marshall got paid $47 million over five years, and Santonio Holmes signed another five-year deal worth $45 million, putting their yearly averages around $9 million each, so it would be wishful to expect Vincent Jackson to sign for around $7 million per season; a reasonable projection would be five years and $50 million. Stevie Johnson and Dwayne Bowe will probably come in around $8 million per season. Colston's age, bad knees, and concerns regarding how much of his production is because of Drew Brees should probably put him around $6 million a season, although $7 million wouldn't be out of the question. Reggie Wayne will probably sign a short-term deal with a high annual value.

Robert Mathis is probabaly looking at $6 million per season at the least, considering that's what Ray Edwards made last year (five years, $30 million.) Mario Williams is one of the NFL's rarest talents and will probably be closer to what Julius Peppers (six years, $84 million) and Charles Johnson (six years, $76 million) made. Pete Prisco suggested that Mario Williams will be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL next season. Tyvon Branch and Michael Griffin should be paid around $5 million per year, and Dashon Goldson will make a little bit less considering his deficiencies in coverage and propensity to gamble and go for the knockout blow rather than the sure tackle. Signing Goldson would upgrade the talent at safety but he could easily end up being the next Brandon Meriweather.

[BradysKnee]

BradysKnee, those free agent numbers look very wishful. Keep in mind that Brandon Marshall got paid $47 million over five years, and Santonio Holmes signed another five-year deal worth $45 million, putting their yearly averages around $9 million each, so it would be wishful to expect Vincent Jackson to sign for around $7 million per season; a reasonable projection would be five years and $50 million. Stevie Johnson and Dwayne Bowe will probably come in around $8 million per season. Colston's age, bad knees, and concerns regarding how much of his production is because of Drew Brees should probably put him around $6 million a season, although $7 million wouldn't be out of the question. Reggie Wayne will probably sign a short-term deal with a high annual value.

Robert Mathis is probabaly looking at $6 million per season at the least, considering that's what Ray Edwards made last year (five years, $30 million.) Mario Williams is one of the NFL's rarest talents and will probably be closer to what Julius Peppers (six years, $84 million) and Charles Johnson (six years, $76 million) made. Pete Prisco suggested that Mario Williams will be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL next season. Tyvon Branch and Michael Griffin should be paid around $5 million per year, and Dashon Goldson will make a little bit less considering his deficiencies in coverage and propensity to gamble and go for the knockout blow rather than the sure tackle. Signing Goldson would upgrade the talent at safety but he could easily end up being the next Brandon Meriweather.

You could be right. It's also fair tosay we may have more cap room as the ceiling is not set yet.

Maybe I'm just optimistic lol.

[AntoinCD]

Excluding Welker ATM, The patriots could cut Matt Light (5mil), Ocho(2mil) and Mike Wright(2.4mil) and be at about 30 mil under.

Let's say we resign the following:

Wes Welker: 7mil (which i am totally not convinced we do)
Mark Anderson: Let Go
Andre Carter: 1.2mil
Deion Branch: Let Go
BJGE: Let Go
Faulk: Retires
Connolly: 1mil
Warren: Let Go
Ellis: Let Go
Guyton: Let Go
Slater: 1mil
Idgheibo:Let Go
Molden:Let Go
White:Let Go
Niko Kou:Let Go

This brings us back down to 20mil under.

Our draft picks will cost:
1 1st - 1.3 mil
3 2nds - 2.4mil
Rest - 2 mil

Leaving us 14 mil for free agents barring unexpected events or a non welker resigning (which I am honestly thinking might be a positive at this point).

Guys we might want:

Vjax: 7mil
Stevie Johnson: 5.5mil
Dwayne Bowe: 6mil
Robert Mathis: 3-4mil
Tyvon Branch: 3mil
Michael Griffin: 3mil
Marques Colston: 6-7mil
Dashon Goldson: 3-4mil [I'd love this guy]
Reggie Wayne: 3mil
Mario Williams: 8mil

So we could sign a big name like Vjax and a Branch, Griffin, and some smaller names, or more likely someone like Reggie Wayne, Steve Johnson coupled with Goldson, Mathis etc.

I'd personally be pumped if we signed Steve Johnson+Goldson+Mathis(or resign Andre Carter) + Some def talent in the draft.

I'd be furious if they simply let Mark Anderson walk. From about week 10 onwards he was quite comfortably the second best player on the defense after Wilfork. If they can get him for relatively cheap I would prefer him over Carter(a lot has to do with age) but Anderson can also play a bit standing up whereas Carter can't.

I'd actually rather keep Anderson than sign Mathis

[Razor]

I'd actually rather keep Anderson than sign Mathis

I'd agree with this. In fact, I'd say that Mathis has become quite overrated. He's a speed rusher going up against right tackles who tend to struggle with speed. I think he's capable but will almost certainly be overpaid this offseason. I think Anderson did a really good job in 2011 and really outperformed my expectations for him. We should definitely keep him around even if it's just as a nickel pass rusher.

[Matthew Jones]

I'm probably going to be representing New England in BeerBaron's forum mock offseason and was wondering if any of you guys wanted to help me out. Since I'd prefer not to discuss everything openly on the boards, feel free to send me a PM if you want to talk strategy.

P.S. I'm on AIM all the time, so if you have a screen name, feel free to include it in the PM.

[Nalej]

Haven't used AIM in forever but I'm down to talk some strategiezzzz though

[descendency]

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012/02/drafting-wide-receivers-a-patriots-case-study.html

The one thing the article doesn't mention is how no WR has been targeted in the first round. Chad Jackson is the closest thing to a first round WR we've gone after and he was just an early second.

Michael Floyd is exactly what the Patriots need. Only a few prospects would be higher on my board if I were NE (unless something behind the scenes I don't know about) than Floyd and he's easily the man I would target. I'd target him above Kendall Wright, who I think played in a simplified offense at Baylor and could be very similar to Taylor Price in the amount of problems he gives the Patriots in developing him.

Michael Floyd would give this offense something it might not be able to get any other way, an outside WR worth a damn.

Even if they get Brandon Lloyd in FA and resign Welker, I'd still target Floyd with the first 1.

[descendency]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/12/remaining-2011-cap-space-by-team/

The Patriots have an extra 6.66 million cap from 2011. So our cap space should be in excess of 27 million before we cut anyone. If we made the cuts proposed earlier, we could be in the 36 million range. I know we need to sign people, but we seriously need to use some of that money to get an impact player.

[AntoinCD]

I either want a huge splash like Mario Williams and then a few pieces like Brandon Lloyd etc or three or four really good players like Brandon Carr, Pierre Garcon/Robert Meachem, Michael Griffen/Dashon Goldson etc

Ideal offseason for me would be

Resign Welker
Sign Mario Williams
Sign Dashon Goldson
Sign Robert Meachem
Trade up for Michael Brockers
Draft Stephon Gilmore
Resign Mark Anderson

Imagine a four man defensive line of Williams, Brockers, Wilfork and Anderson

Then a secondary of McCourty, Gilmore, Dowling, Arrington, Chung and Goldson.

Overall then the defense could become a strength.

[cmarq83]

I either want a huge splash like Mario Williams and then a few pieces like Brandon Lloyd etc or three or four really good players like Brandon Carr, Pierre Garcon/Robert Meachem, Michael Griffen/Dashon Goldson etc

Ideal offseason for me would be

Resign Welker
Sign Mario Williams
Sign Dashon Goldson
Sign Robert Meachem
Trade up for Michael Brockers
Draft Stephon Gilmore
Resign Mark Anderson

Imagine a four man defensive line of Williams, Brockers, Wilfork and Anderson

Then a secondary of McCourty, Gilmore, Dowling, Arrington, Chung and Goldson.

Overall then the defense could become a strength.

Mario Williams contract is going to be a little too rich for my taste. We already have a $15+ million guy on our team, and capwise I don't think it's prudent to add another guy at that price, even for a guy as talented as Williams. As we found out this year we can get pressure if we actually try blitzing every once and a while and have a guy or 2 who specialize at it. I think Williams is a luxury we can't really afford.

I do however like the idea of going after a big name or two, but for me I think we need to address our biggest weakness which lies outside of the hashes. Cornerback and Wide Receiver are an absolute disaster right now. Bowe, V-Jack, D-Jack, Colston, Meachem, Manningham, and Garcon are guys who I have my eyes on right now. At Cornerback I have my eyes peeled on Thomas, Carr, Greer, Asante (if he's released), Rodgers, and Finnegan.

I also would be willing to part with a first round pick for either Wallace or Lardarius Webb who played like an absolute stud this year. To me giving up a 1st for a 26 year old is a sacrifice I'd be willing to make as a GM. Those are our 2 biggest need spots and adding 1 top guy in either of those spots would have a cumulative effect on the offense or the defense. Plus, taking away stud young talent from our biggest threats in the AFC can't hurt either.

If I'm the Pats I'd give out an offer for Wallace, and maybe one for Webb depending on how UFA turns out. About 5 years $45 million for Wallace in a front loaded deal so the Steelers can't match.

At CB my preference would be go Carr then Webb even if though we'd lose a pick because I think he's going to be a top 8 CB for a long time.

In terms of other positions if the Raiders release Michael Huff I'd be all over him. Perfect for what we need at safety opposite Chung. I'd also like Ahmad Brooks if we're going to the 3-4 full time. He's like a rich mans Rob Ninkovich.


Of course BB will never do what we want him to do so we better get ready for an offseason where we sign Manny Lawson and Rashean Mathis and call it a day.

[Borat]

FYI, the Niners have already said if they can't re-sign Goldson, that they'll use the franchise tag on him.

[Nalej]

As we found out this year we can get pressure if we actually try blitzing every once and a while and have a guy or 2 who specialize at it. I think Williams is a luxury we can't really afford.

I agree with everything you said except with the above.
We got better at getting pressure but we're far from it being a strength.
It was inconsistent and didn't scare anyone.
The reason why we're mocking pass rushers to the Pats still is bc of this fact.
Get M.Williams, retain M.Anderson and sign a starting FS and our D is a strength.
McCourty plays like he played in his rookie year too.