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d34ng3l021
05-24-2007, 11:58 PM
This is going to be a long offseason...these corner debates are often fun.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Rasheen Mathis
4. Terrence Newman
5. Nate Clements

Sniper
05-25-2007, 12:07 AM
Where's Achilles when you need him? ;)

1. Champ Bailey
2. Asante Samuel
3. DeAngelo Hall
4. Lito Sheppard
5. Terrence Newman

Cashmoney
05-25-2007, 12:17 AM
1) Champ Bailey
2) Asante Samuel
3) Rashean Mathis
4) Terance Newman
5) Deangelo Hall

JoeMontainya
05-25-2007, 12:18 AM
Deangleo gets beat all the time, hes not even in the top 10 yet.

Nightmares Win 6-0
05-25-2007, 12:18 AM
there's four corners in a square, and rashean mathis isn't that good...i think trufant is better...

sodar21
05-25-2007, 12:19 AM
1. Shawn Springs
2. Nate Clements
3. Antoine Winfield
4. Chris Gamble
5. Ashton Youboty

d34ng3l021
05-25-2007, 12:25 AM
Deangleo gets beat all the time, hes not even in the top 10 yet.

By "gets beat all the time" do you mean "got beat alot during the 2nd half of last year because his 2 pro bowl DEs hardly played." Or do you mean "got beat alot during the 2nd half of the season, and because thats the only thing I can remember, he isnt top10?"

niel89
05-25-2007, 12:26 AM
1. Shawn Springs
2. Nate Clements
3. Antoine Winfield
4. Chris Gamble
5. Ashton Youboty

:rolleyes:


my list

1)Champ Bailey
2)Chris McAlister
3)Rasheen Mathis
4)Asante Samuel
5)Terance Newman & Nnamdi Asomugha (tie)

Samuel, Newman & Asomugha were all close imo

sodar21
05-25-2007, 12:28 AM
:rolleyes:


my list

1)Champ Bailey
2)Chris McAlister
3)Rasheen Mathis
4)Asante Samuel
5)Terance Newman

I considered slipping in Ahmed Plummer.

niel89
05-25-2007, 12:28 AM
I considered slipping in Ahmed Plummer.

do it:D

ten pleases sir

255979119
05-25-2007, 12:29 AM
I considered slipping in Ahmed Plummer.

Duane Starks came to mind :P

Sniper
05-25-2007, 01:00 AM
1. Shawn Springs
2. Nate Clements
3. Antoine Winfield
4. Chris Gamble
5. Ashton Youboty

You wouldn't happen to be an Ohio State fan by any chance would you?

TitleTown088
05-25-2007, 01:16 AM
Charles Woodson
Al Harris
Will Blackmon
Pat Dendy
Frank Walker.

no love
05-25-2007, 01:28 AM
This is going to be a long offseason...these corner debates are often fun.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Rasheen Mathis
4. Terrence Newman
5. Nate Clements

1. Champ - He gets to play the Raiders with a rookie QB, San Diegos unimpressive WR corps and KC's young and uequally unimpressive wr corps twice a year. Not to mention he is the best and maybe one of the best all around corners ever.

2. Rasheen Mathis - Guy is just impressive. Great playmaker, physical, and GOOD tackler, he's good with little QB pressure from up front.

3. Nate Clements (homer pick) - Love his physical style of play and is a real threat when he gets his hands on the ball which is often.

3. Terrence Newman - Good cover man who keeps men out of the end zone, what more can you ask for.

4. Asante Samuel - I dunno if he should really belong here, but when you have a front 7 like the pats its hard to tell...

5. Deangelo Hall - He had a down year, but i fully expect him to bounce back to his probowl caliber of play.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-25-2007, 01:28 AM
Nnamdi Asomugha is crying right now you guys.

Crying.

Dam8610
05-25-2007, 01:31 AM
Nnamdi Asomugha is crying right now you guys.

Crying.

I was going to make a list and put him at 4, but I couldn't come up with a 5.

d34ng3l021
05-25-2007, 01:35 AM
Nnamdi Asomugha is crying right now you guys.

Crying.

Its tough with him man. He has had one great season...and thats pretty much it.

255979119
05-25-2007, 01:44 AM
The last list that was up, about a month ago, everybody had McCallister as their number two. What happened?

Paranoidmoonduck
05-25-2007, 01:48 AM
Its tough with him man. He has had one great season...and thats pretty much it.

Well, Football Outsider also had him rated as a top 5 corner in terms of production back in 2005 (and most people scoffed).

d34ng3l021
05-25-2007, 01:56 AM
Well, Football Outsider also had him rated as a top 5 corner in terms of production back in 2005 (and most people scoffed).

Really?

This changes EVERYTHING

Paranoidmoonduck
05-25-2007, 01:59 AM
Really?

This changes EVERYTHING

:p

Guy was easily the best player on the #1 secondary in the league, and the only team better at suppressing #1 wideouts last year was Denver (I wonder why).

I'm just saying he should get his dues is all.

niel89
05-25-2007, 02:57 AM
Nnamdi Asomugha is crying right now you guys.

Crying.

the only reason i didnt have him is because i couldnt spell his name :D

BlindSite
05-25-2007, 04:45 AM
God, this is a stupid argument, all the time people over look great corners for some flash in the pan guy who got 8 or 9 INTs because he was picked on.

I'm not bothering except to say this is a stupid argument and discussion that was only had about two months ago.

edgrenade
05-25-2007, 06:09 AM
DeAngelo Hall is the most overated corner in league. He only got hyped up by Chad Johnson, that is it.

Sniper
05-25-2007, 06:46 AM
Sorry I meant to put Charles Woodson circa 1997 ahead of Champ Bailey :)

1. Charles Woodson (1997 version)
2. Everyone else

remix 6
05-25-2007, 07:30 AM
i wouldnt put Asante in top 5 actually. Im a huge fan but listen

1. He started the season as the #2 corner behind Hobbs..so a little less than half the season he was the right CB against #2 WRs. He got moved to the left side and got more picks and played extremely well

^that tells me he hasnt done it for long

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Terrence Newman
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Asamugha/Clements

i think Samuel is still top 10 but more towards 8-10

LitoSheppard
05-25-2007, 07:33 AM
1.Champ Bailey
2.Chris McAllister
3.Lito Sheppard
4.Rasheen Mathis
5.Asomugha

bearfan
05-25-2007, 07:36 AM
In no particular order

Charles Tillman
Nathan Vasher
Ricky Manning JR
Corey Webster (thanks for the Giants game big guy)
Corey Grahm (sp)

LitoSheppard
05-25-2007, 07:43 AM
In no particular order

Charles Tillman
Nathan Vasher
Ricky Manning JR
Corey Webster (thanks for the Giants game big guy)
Corey Grahm (sp)

Charles Tillman is one of my favorite corners, he is in my top 10.

Jensen
05-25-2007, 07:44 AM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAllister
3. Rashean Mathis
4. Nnamdi Asomugha
5. Terrance Newman

bored of education
05-25-2007, 08:17 AM
IN ORDER:
Champ
Mathis
Chris McAlister
Asomugha
Tillman
Samuel

remix 6
05-25-2007, 08:44 AM
no way and Tillman-Asomugha or Samuel better than Newman.

steelernation77
05-25-2007, 11:24 AM
Hall is a terrible tackler. I like corners that can play both the run and pass.

LitoSheppard
05-25-2007, 11:41 AM
Hall is a terrible tackler. I like corners that can play both the run and pass.

Sheldon Brown, the best tackling corner in the NFL. Also good cover man

Splat
05-25-2007, 11:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyNMz_LxEoA

America
05-25-2007, 12:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyNMz_LxEoA

The late 80's/90's were so great.

1. Champ
2. McAlister
3. Mathis
4. Asomugha
5 - 10 in no order
Nate Clements
Sheldon Brown
Asante Samuel
Terrence Newman
Al Harris
Pacman

A healthy Ken Lucas or Leigh Bodden probably would have made the list. Trufant and Tillman were close.

DeathbyStat
05-25-2007, 12:26 PM
By "gets beat all the time" do you mean "got beat alot during the 2nd half of last year because his 2 pro bowl DEs hardly played." Or do you mean "got beat alot during the 2nd half of the season, and because thats the only thing I can remember, he isnt top10?"

Or did you mean gets outrun by Hines Ward

Mr. Stiller
05-25-2007, 12:35 PM
Or did you mean gets outrun by Hines Ward

With only 1 shoe.

DMWSackMachine
05-25-2007, 02:04 PM
What is the fascination with these CB threads? It seems like one pops up every two weeks, minimum. I don't understand it.

Shiver
05-25-2007, 02:07 PM
What is the fascination with these CB threads? It seems like one pops up every two weeks, minimum. I don't understand it.

Especially since the positions is inherently subjective.

remix 6
05-25-2007, 02:31 PM
Sheldon Brown, the best tackling corner in the NFL. Also good cover man

sheldon is NOT the best tackling corner..

that would be Champ Bailey and Antoine Winfield.

Splat
05-25-2007, 02:36 PM
While not the best Surtain plays the run pretty good.

Phrost
05-25-2007, 02:40 PM
sheldon is NOT the best tackling corner..

that would be Champ Bailey and Antoine Winfield.

The best blitzer is Ronde Barber(HOMER ALERT!)

draftguru151
05-25-2007, 03:25 PM
While not the best Surtain plays the run pretty good.

Eh, it's really nothing above average, one of the reasons he is gone because Saban wanted CBs who are very physical in run support, same reason why Madison is gone.

JoeMontainya
05-25-2007, 04:46 PM
By "gets beat all the time" do you mean "got beat alot during the 2nd half of last year because his 2 pro bowl DEs hardly played." Or do you mean "got beat alot during the 2nd half of the season, and because thats the only thing I can remember, he isnt top10?"

Says the Atlanta Falcons fan with the name Deangelo Hall represented in his user name? Honestly Im not even gonna argue with you, whatever I say it wont matter.

Paul
05-25-2007, 04:50 PM
This is going to turn into homer fest so fast, just wait. But heres mine:

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Terrence Newman
4. Lito Sheppard
5. Asomugha

remix 6
05-25-2007, 04:52 PM
This is going to turn into homer fest so fast, just wait. But heres mine:

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Terrence Newman
4. Lito Sheppard
5. Asomugha

rashean mathis > asomugha and sheppard.

Go_Eagles77
05-25-2007, 04:57 PM
The late 80's/90's were so great.

1. Champ
2. McAlister
3. Mathis
4. Asomugha
5 - 10 in no order
Nate Clements
Sheldon Brown
Asante Samuel
Terrence Newman
Al Harris
Pacman

A healthy Ken Lucas or Leigh Bodden probably would have made the list. Trufant and Tillman were close.

I wouldn't put Sheldon on the list before Lito, I would've at this time last year, but Lito played better in both covering and making plays than Sheldon did (The int vs Dallas and Carolina to lock up both victories), who knows, maybe after this year it will be Sheldon again, but I think Lito has solidified the fact that he is the better of the 2 for the time being.

Phrost
05-25-2007, 04:58 PM
Al Harris=Best man to man corner in the league.

remix 6
05-25-2007, 05:15 PM
Al Harris=Best man to man corner in the league.

champ bailey says hello.

bucpimpin
05-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Ronde Barber is top 5. Maybe even top 3.

Phrost
05-25-2007, 05:27 PM
Ronde Barber is top 5. Maybe even top 3.

best blitzer.

Crazy_Chris
05-25-2007, 05:40 PM
this thread is kinda sad there are some great CB's that aren't getting enough credit

1.Champ Bailey
2.Chris McAlister
3.Ty Law(getting older but can still hold his own against Anyone in this league)
4.Antoine Winfield(the single most underrated cornerback in the NFL)
5.Rashean Mathis

jsagan77
05-25-2007, 05:59 PM
1. Champ
2. McCallister
3. Hall
4. Mathis
5. Samuel

LarryJohnson27
05-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Eh, it's really nothing above average, one of the reasons he is gone because Saban wanted CBs who are very physical in run support, same reason why Madison is gone.


Really? Maybe he just improved in that area over time, because he's been above average in run support the past couple years for us. I didn't get to see him as much in Miami though, so you're probablly right.

Shiver
05-25-2007, 06:30 PM
There is so much blatant ignorance I cannot even single out any one out.

amag
05-25-2007, 06:30 PM
why is no one mentioning ronde? he may not be flashy but goodness gracious, theres no way hes not top 5

Shiver
05-25-2007, 06:31 PM
There is so much blatant ignorance I cannot even single out any one out.

why is no one mentioning ronde? he may not be flashy but goodness gracious, theres no way hes not top 5

Thank you for proving my point.

frogstomp
05-25-2007, 07:03 PM
1. Bailey

2. C-Mac

3. Asomugha

4/5. Mathis

4/5. Samuel

America
05-25-2007, 07:04 PM
At least everyone agrees Champ is the best.

niel89
05-25-2007, 07:13 PM
At least everyone agrees Champ is the best.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
http://cache.denverbroncos.com/resources/custom/Images/Top%20Stories/2005/bailey_champ_050830.jpg

THIZZorDIE
05-25-2007, 07:15 PM
Clements needs a lot of credit here, Has he even missed a game since being in the league?

frogstomp
05-25-2007, 07:16 PM
Clements needs a lot of credit here, Has he even missed a game since being in the league?


He's top 10, not top 5.

Chucky
05-25-2007, 07:45 PM
sheldon is NOT the best tackling corner..

that would be Champ Bailey and Antoine Winfield.

Most Cover 2 guys are better hitters, better than champ even, i think WInfiled is the best though

remix 6
05-25-2007, 07:59 PM
Most Cover 2 guys are better hitters, better than champ even, i think WInfiled is the best though

i dont see Bailey miss tackles. 85 tackles aswell and hes not the 1 who tackles his WR .. he doesnt get beat. His tackles are against the run

samuel is a big hitter..ask ricky williams..jeb putzier..stokley. to name a few

sodar21
05-25-2007, 08:00 PM
I wonder if Winfield can eventually play safety a bit later in his career (ala Troy Vincent and Rod Woodson).

remix 6
05-25-2007, 08:02 PM
I wonder if Winfield can eventually play safety a bit later in his career (ala Troy Vincent and Rod Woodson).

i think he might if he adds weight. hes 5"9 190(maybe less) but i can see him as a safety because hes very good against run

dcarey20
05-26-2007, 10:14 AM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Nate Clements
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Asante Samuel

Xonraider
05-26-2007, 10:43 AM
Al Harris=Best man to man corner in the league.

Nnamdi Asomugha>>>Al Harris.

yakdaddy71
05-26-2007, 10:55 AM
1. Champ Bailey - Obviously the best.
2. Al Harris - Recievers such as: Roy Williams, Musin Muhamed, Randy Moss all have him #2 to Champ.
3. Chris Mcalister - Key part to a top defense.
4. Charles Woodson - Injured the past few seasons, but showed he can still play at a high last this past season.
5. Ty Law - Can still shut down the other team's top recievers.

remix 6
05-26-2007, 11:52 AM
1. Champ Bailey - Obviously the best.
2. Al Harris - Recievers such as: Roy Williams, Musin Muhamed, Randy Moss all have him #2 to Champ.
3. Chris Mcalister - Key part to a top defense.
4. Charles Woodson - Injured the past few seasons, but showed he can still play at a high last this past season.
5. Ty Law - Can still shut down the other team's top recievers.

terrible list.

find me the quotes where those guys say Al Harris is the best. Chad Johnson said Asamugha was the best..before that he said Leigh Bodden was the best..then said Champ was the best before the games.

Law is not top 5...although hes my favorite all time cb. Woodson had 1 good year playing #2 CB..too earlyto put him in top 5

tom
05-26-2007, 02:11 PM
Interesting thread, how about top 5 CB's all time?

Neon Deion
Mel Blount
Darell Green
Rod Woodson
Champ Bailey

Shiver
05-26-2007, 02:30 PM
1. Champ Bailey - Obviously the best.
2. Al Harris - Recievers such as: Roy Williams, Musin Muhamed, Randy Moss all have him #2 to Champ.
3. Chris Mcalister - Key part to a top defense.
4. Charles Woodson - Injured the past few seasons, but showed he can still play at a high last this past season.
5. Ty Law - Can still shut down the other team's top recievers.

Let me guess, you are a Green Bay Packers fan right? Or a Michigan Wolverines fan. Either way, Harris, Woodson, Law, are not even close. At least that is the consensus.

elway777
05-26-2007, 03:11 PM
1a.)Champ Bailey
2.a.)Eric Berry

jkpigskin
05-26-2007, 04:22 PM
:rolleyes:


my list

1)Champ Bailey
2)Chris McAlister
3)Rasheen Mathis
4)Asante Samuel
5)Terance Newman & Nnamdi Asomugha (tie)

Samuel, Newman & Asomugha were all close imo

this thread is sooooooooo overdone
i agree with that list

remix 6
05-26-2007, 04:31 PM
this thread is sooooooooo overdone
i agree with that list

i dont. i think Samuel should be 5 at the very best.

Denver Bronco99
05-26-2007, 07:11 PM
no homer...but whats everyones take on bly? playing all the #2 wrs? going against number 2 wide outs should be lock down with champ playing all the #1's

elway777
05-26-2007, 07:17 PM
Bly is a top 5 corner in the league for sure.

Top 5 out of #2 corners that it is.

BlindSite
05-26-2007, 07:44 PM
Bly is not a top 5 corner, he's probably top 30, but that's about it.

jkpigskin
05-26-2007, 08:20 PM
i dont. i think Samuel should be 5 at the very best.

um... ok... 4 and 5, big diff

remix 6
05-26-2007, 09:08 PM
um... ok... 4 and 5, big diff

when u consider the 2 players at 5 are a lot better..and i said at best

id rank samuel at 7-8

High Roller
05-26-2007, 10:20 PM
Champ Bailey
Rashean Mathis
Chris McAlister
Asante Samuel
Nate Clements (homer?)

senormysterioso
05-26-2007, 10:23 PM
1. Champ Bailey- head and shoulders above the rest, he does it all

2. Al Harris- He and Bailey are THE two shutdown corners in the league. He's not flashy like Bailey and doesn't create as many turn overs (which is why he gets no love) ask Roy Williams, "The best corner, in my opinion, is Al Harris from Green Bay.He's not going to get you those picks. But that's a shut-down corner. He's going to pressure you all game, he doesn't want no help up top, he's going to pressure you all game, he wants that No. 1 guy every week. It's a tough task getting by him because he's so long, he's so lanky, and so strong. You don't never hear nothing about him because he don't have the picks like these other guys because he don't play zone. He plays man-to-man, and you won't catch any balls against him."

3. Antoine Winfeild- Such a solid complete player. Any coach would love a player like him on their team.

4. Nnamdi Asomugha- Still hasn't reached his peak but he's a great all around corner

5/6/7. Rashean Mathis- Just plain good

5/6/7. Nate Clements- Also just plain good

5/6/7. Ken Lucas- Again, just plain good

up and comers that will be up there soon; Terrance Newman, Chris Gamble, Duanta Robinson, Marcus Trufant

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 12:37 AM
1. Champ Bailey - The only shut down cornerback in the league
2. Rashean Mathis - Physical and strong at the point of attack, very good in both man and zone, sometimes can be outmuscled by more physical receivers, but thats more the exception than the rule.
3. Ken Lucas - Locks down one side of the field and loves to support the run, can at times struggle to fend off a block and at times plays too far off giving his man a bit too much cushion. In man to man, and tackling a ball carrier there's none better in the league at his position though the others in the top five would be equal.
4. Terrance Newman - I used to have a dislike for Newman, he had stiff hips for a corner and often wasn't sharp enough coming out of his breaks when covering a receiver man to man, this last season he seemed more fluid and seemed to try a lot harder to cover some one, he seemed, hungrier, if he keeps up that intensity he gets the vote.
5. Al Harris - Tenacious and aggressive but also very smart in the way he plays. Not necessarily a shut down guy because he struggles against the faster more elusive receivers like Steve Smith and Santana moss, but very, very, very good.

Honorable Mentions

Nnamdi Asomugha Very good young corner but not yet in the same class as the guys above him. He's playing in front of pass rush that ranked first in the league and with a good supporting cast of safeties and cornerbacks around him. very good player, but hasn't been playing great defense for a number of years, just one year.

DeAngelo Hall, wants to be the best player at his position and clearly thinks he is, but isn't. He needs to work on keeping his aggression in check as this has been his downfall in the past. Excellent measurable and a true student of the game. Needs more mental toughness and not to act like a punk on the field imo.

d34ng3l021
05-27-2007, 12:41 AM
DeAngelo Hall, wants to be the best player at his position and clearly thinks he is, but isn't. He needs to work on keeping his aggression in check as this has been his downfall in the past. Excellent measurable and a true student of the game. Needs more mental toughness and not to act like a punk on the field imo.

Yeah. You would think that a guy who wants to be the best so much would not lose it so much on the field. Oh well. The guy is like 23/24. I dont blame him. Lets see him mature.

remix 6
05-27-2007, 08:24 AM
i hate how people are saying: ask Roy Williams! he got shut down

CJ had 3 catches 37 yards against Colts..tell me Harper and David are 1 of the best

Al Harris got beat by Reche Caldwell. 3 catches 70 yards 1 TD

what about Roy's first game vs Lions? 7 catches 138 yards 1 TD...ask al Harris

Jimmy
05-27-2007, 08:48 AM
1)Champ Bailey
2)Chris McAlister
3)Rashean Mathis
4)Asante Samuel
5)Terance Newman
6)Nnamdi Asomugha

ATLDirtyBirds
05-27-2007, 09:24 AM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCalister
3. DeAngelo Hall
4. Nnamdi Asomugha
5. Rasheen Mathis

etk
05-27-2007, 09:56 AM
This discussion=no fun without TNewFan

He actually IMed me begging for me to say that Newman deserved to be in the Pro Bowl over Ronde. That kid is legendary.

zoinks
05-27-2007, 09:56 AM
In this thread, DeAngelo Hall has been mentioned about 50 times, but Pacman Jones has been mentioned only once.

Pacman takes a lot of flak for his off-field antics, and deservedly so.....the guy's an idiot.

But on the field, he shuts people down. After struggling in the season opener, I don't remember him allowing a single completion of more than 15 yards in 2006....and even those were few and far between.

Most teams didn't throw at him at all. Those that did paid dearly.

It's a shame that his talent is so badly overshadowed by his behavior, because he's truly one of the most amazing players in the league.

Paul
05-27-2007, 10:02 AM
This discussion=no fun without TNewFan

He actually IMed me begging for me to say that Newman deserved to be in the Pro Bowl over Ronde. That kid is legendary.

ROFL. Wow.

elway777
05-27-2007, 12:58 PM
Bly is not a top 5 corner, he's probably top 30, but that's about it.

Obviously, should've read the rest of the post.

reese
05-27-2007, 01:08 PM
i agree about pac man he is one of the few corners that can run man 2 man with most wrs and he is very young...in a couple years if he can stay in the league i think he will be top 5....he also has no problem comin up to support the run

SuperMcGee
05-27-2007, 02:44 PM
1)Champ Bailey
2)Chris McAlister
3)Rashean Mathis
4)Asante Samuel
5)Terance Newman
6)Nnamdi Asomugha

I agree almost completely with this list. I'd tack Clements on to the bottom of it and I like all of them as a top 7. He's great but obviously his inconsistency can leave him off a top tier. I always liked Winfield, too. He's up there, top 10 for me.

Burns336
05-27-2007, 04:55 PM
This discussion=no fun without TNewFan

He actually IMed me begging for me to say that Newman deserved to be in the Pro Bowl over Ronde. That kid is legendary.

Although it may be fun for you guys to make fun of him every now and then, it almost drives you to suicide to read his posts in the cowboys forum. I finally made a bet with him and forced him to leave.

Smooth Criminal
05-27-2007, 05:00 PM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Asante Samual
3. Terrence Newman
4. Nnamdi Asomugha
5. Chris McAlister

EdReedUnstoppable
05-27-2007, 05:56 PM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Terrance Newman
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Dunta Robinson

cunningham06
05-27-2007, 06:24 PM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Terrance Newman
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Dunta Robinson

Dunta's good but nowhere near top 5. He is top 15 maybe, but certainly not top 5.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCalister
3. Nate Clements
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Nnamdi Asomugha
6. Terence Newman
7. Asante Samuel
8. Deangelo Hall
9. Lito Sheppard
10. Pacman (since he's out for this season I'll put Al Harris here).

Soon to be in here, Tye Hill and Darrelle Revis.

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 08:22 PM
Dunta's good but nowhere near top 5. He is top 15 maybe, but certainly not top 5.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCalister
3. Nate Clements
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Nnamdi Asomugha
6. Terence Newman
7. Asante Samuel
8. Deangelo Hall
9. Lito Sheppard
10. Pacman (since he's out for this season I'll put Al Harris here).

Soon to be in here, Tye Hill and Darrelle Revis.

You're missing Ken Lucas who's easily top 5.

that guy gets no respect just because he was injured last year.

cunningham06
05-27-2007, 08:26 PM
You're missing Ken Lucas who's easily top 5.

that guy gets no respect just because he was injured last year.

I was actually debating between him and Al Harris for spot 10. When healthy he's a great CB I wouldn't put him top 5, but top 10 easily. I put players who had broken out last season and who I believe going into this season are the top 10. If Lucas plays like he did before last season, he will be in my list again.

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 08:28 PM
He's better in coverage and run support over just about everyone you mentioned in your top 5 except for Bailey. His only negatives is he can allow faster receivers to get some extra yards on smokes and screens because he gives a big cushion. Thats about it, he fights like a WR for the ball and flat out levels people when he hits.

I can understand where you're coming from though.

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 08:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8l0sMNiKp8

Star Wideout
05-27-2007, 08:33 PM
You're missing Ken Lucas who's easily top 5.

that guy gets no respect just because he was injured last year.
Definitely one of the most underrated and under appreciated cornerbacks in the league.

People forget just how dominant he was the season before when he had an All-Pro caliber season even though he got snubbed. He Only gave up 1 TD the whole year and had a monster playoffs having 2 game sealing picks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8l0sMNiKp8
you already posted it :)

Shame he had an unlucky year with injuries. but even in a down year for him he only gave up 2 touchdowns the whole season and one of them was to a TE Todd Heap on a jump ball which is a huge mismatch for any Corner in the endzone.

cunningham06
05-27-2007, 08:47 PM
He's better in coverage and run support over just about everyone you mentioned in your top 5 except for Bailey. His only negatives is he can allow faster receivers to get some extra yards on smokes and screens because he gives a big cushion. Thats about it, he fights like a WR for the ball and flat out levels people when he hits.

I can understand where you're coming from though.

Well, that's debateable. Chris McCalister is one of the best press coverage CB's in the NFL, and man to man plays better coverage than just about anyone. Run support I agree Lucas is better. Clements is better in run support than Lucas, they seem pretty even in coverage. As for Mathis, he's just a playmaker and his ball skills are fantastic. Lucas's are as well, but Mathis is nearly always coming up with the pick, and if not the swat. When comparing the two remember that Lucas has the aid of the best DE in the NFL, Julius Peppers to rush the qb's decisions. Nnamdi really improved from an efficient 2005 season with a breakout year in 2006, and I like him to keep improving. As of right now, you may be right, Lucas could be better, but we'll see this season.

Of my top 5 the only one I think it's arguable that Lucas is better than is Rashean Mathis.

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 09:04 PM
Well, that's debateable. Chris McCalister is one of the best press coverage CB's in the NFL, and man to man plays better coverage than just about anyone. Run support I agree Lucas is better. Clements is better in run support than Lucas, they seem pretty even in coverage. As for Mathis, he's just a playmaker and his ball skills are fantastic. Lucas's are as well, but Mathis is nearly always coming up with the pick, and if not the swat. When comparing the two remember that Lucas has the aid of the best DE in the NFL, Julius Peppers to rush the qb's decisions. Nnamdi really improved from an efficient 2005 season with a breakout year in 2006, and I like him to keep improving. As of right now, you may be right, Lucas could be better, but we'll see this season.

Of my top 5 the only one I think it's arguable that Lucas is better than is Rashean Mathis.

Nate Clements is the most overrated cornerback in the league, he played a lot of zone coverage and doesn't keep his feet moving when tackling, which makes me wonder how he could be better than Lucas in any aspect of tackling, since his technique is shoddy.

As for Mathis being better at taking INTs, did you not watch that video, he's got excellent position and most of those are on timing routes where he's exploded in front of cornerbacks.

Mathis isn't even top 5. imo.

As for Chris McAllister. I've never been a fan of his and I really think he's overrated. He's gotten a lot better since he's stopped his party hard ways but realistically he still gets beaten deep too often and against carolina this year he had a terrible game.

cunningham06
05-27-2007, 09:24 PM
Nate Clements is the most overrated cornerback in the league, he played a lot of zone coverage and doesn't keep his feet moving when tackling, which makes me wonder how he could be better than Lucas in any aspect of tackling, since his technique is shoddy.

As for Mathis being better at taking INTs, did you not watch that video, he's got excellent position and most of those are on timing routes where he's exploded in front of cornerbacks.

Mathis isn't even top 5. imo.

As for Chris McAllister. I've never been a fan of his and I really think he's overrated. He's gotten a lot better since he's stopped his party hard ways but realistically he still gets beaten deep too often and against carolina this year he had a terrible game.

Nate Clements on this board is pretty underrated for the most part. He had a somewhat down year this season, but he is still among the best CB's IMO. Tackling-wise Clements is more physical. He wrecks people and is very adept at jarring the ball loose.

I've seen the Lucas video, several are great plays where he jumps the routes, but several are poorly thrown balls or jump balls in the corner of the end zone. I couldn't find a video of Mathis, but he made some fantastic picks this season.

Chris McCalister before this season was awful at catching the ball. He improved this season, but still dropped a few interceptions. He stays so close to the receiver that he apart from Champ Bailey is the only CB that I would consider semi "shutdown." He doesn't have that many balls thrown his way, Samari Rolle is clearly the weak link of the secondary. He's fantastic in coverage and like I said earlier his press coverage is second to none. As for him having a bad game against Carolina, every CB has a bad game every once in a while, Steve Smith is a hard person to cover. He at least came out of that game with an int.

dc4life
05-27-2007, 09:25 PM
Definitely one of the most underrated and under appreciated cornerbacks in the league.

People forget just how dominant he was the season before when he had an All-Pro caliber season even though he got snubbed. He Only gave up 1 TD the whole year and had a monster playoffs having 2 game sealing picks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8l0sMNiKp8
you already posted it :)

Shame he had an unlucky year with injuries. but even in a down year for him he only gave up 2 touchdowns the whole season and one of them was to a TE Todd Heap on a jump ball which is a huge mismatch for any Corner in the endzone.

Lucas is good. That INT in the Dallas vs Panthers game was utterly sick. He was covering TO i think. Just curious though, who would you bump out of the top 5 to put Lucas in ?

remix 6
05-27-2007, 09:55 PM
Nate Clements is the most overrated cornerback in the league, he played a lot of zone coverage and doesn't keep his feet moving when tackling, which makes me wonder how he could be better than Lucas in any aspect of tackling, since his technique is shoddy.

As for Mathis being better at taking INTs, did you not watch that video, he's got excellent position and most of those are on timing routes where he's exploded in front of cornerbacks.

Mathis isn't even top 5. imo.

As for Chris McAllister. I've never been a fan of his and I really think he's overrated. He's gotten a lot better since he's stopped his party hard ways but realistically he still gets beaten deep too often and against carolina this year he had a terrible game.

im pretty sure it was Rolle and the safeties that got burned by smith.(on the 72 yarder)

and Lucas is a very good CB..but last year he was often injured so its hard to judge him based on last season which many are doing if they are putting Samuel in their list

Star Wideout
05-27-2007, 10:42 PM
I've seen the Lucas video, several are great plays where he jumps the routes, but several are poorly thrown balls or jump balls in the corner of the end zone. I couldn't find a video of Mathis, but he made some fantastic picks this season.

Just going off last year with the injuries I'd probably hold off on putting Lucas in the top 5 because of other guys having breakout seasons.

but even injured he had some pretty amazing interceptions last season.
http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2006/nflcom/w16/panthers_falcons_short_300k.rm&pcode=nfl&rsrc=nflfilms1&rpcontexturl=http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass/includes/2006_week16_recap&rpcontextwidth=500
this is versus the Falcons it's at like 1:20 vick scrambles away and just makes one of those throw away throws towards the sideline and somehow Lucas reaches out and makes the sideline interception.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2006/nflcom/w10/buccaneers_panthers_short_300k.rm&pcode=nfl&rsrc=nflfilms1&rpcontexturl=http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass/includes/2006_week10_recap&rpcontextwidth=500
versus the Bucs at like 40 seconds in he stays stride for stride with Galloway on deep route who's still one of the best deep threats in the league and comes across the body to make the diving interception as they are going down in the endzone.

cunningham06
05-27-2007, 10:52 PM
Just going off last year with the injuries I'd probably hold off on putting Lucas in the top 5 because of other guys having breakout seasons.

but even injured he had some pretty amazing interceptions last season.
http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2006/nflcom/w16/panthers_falcons_short_300k.rm&pcode=nfl&rsrc=nflfilms1&rpcontexturl=http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass/includes/2006_week16_recap&rpcontextwidth=500
this is versus the Falcons it's at like 1:20 vick scrambles away and just makes one of those throw away throws towards the sideline and somehow Lucas reaches out and makes the sideline interception.

http://play.rbn.com/?url=/nfl/nfl/open/nflfilms/demand/s2006/nflcom/w10/buccaneers_panthers_short_300k.rm&pcode=nfl&rsrc=nflfilms1&rpcontexturl=http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass/includes/2006_week10_recap&rpcontextwidth=500
versus the Bucs at like 40 seconds in he stays stride for stride with Galloway on deep route who's still one of the best deep threats in the league and comes across the body to make the diving interception as they are going down in the endzone.

Galloway was underthrown on that ball, and the pass was too towards the inside, but I get what you're saying. When I was doing my top 10 I was thinking about where to put Lucas, but ended up leaving him off because of a sub par season last year.

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 11:17 PM
im pretty sure it was Rolle and the safeties that got burned by smith.(on the 72 yarder)

and Lucas is a very good CB..but last year he was often injured so its hard to judge him based on last season which many are doing if they are putting Samuel in their list

Keyshawn caught 5 passes against McAllister, and he had 5 thrown his way.

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 11:18 PM
Dunta's good but nowhere near top 5. He is top 15 maybe, but certainly not top 5.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCalister
3. Nate Clements
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Nnamdi Asomugha
6. Terence Newman
7. Asante Samuel
8. Deangelo Hall
9. Lito Sheppard
10. Pacman (since he's out for this season I'll put Al Harris here).

Soon to be in here, Tye Hill and Darrelle Revis.


I'd bump Clements to four, drop Mathis to 6 leave Nnamdi at 5, put lucas at 3 and drop Lito down to 11.

cunningham06
05-27-2007, 11:19 PM
Keyshawn caught 5 passes against McAllister, and he had 5 thrown his way.

For a whopping 46 yards...

BlindSite
05-27-2007, 11:42 PM
3 of which were for first downs.

Besides which, he managed to hold him to two yards less than his season average per catch. 50ypg was his average and 4.3 catches... So he did just as good against McAllister as he did week in week out, not exactly, "shut down"

cunningham06
05-28-2007, 12:01 AM
Every CB has a game where they don't shut down the receiver. Even Champ Bailey, Jerry Porter embarassed him in 2004 and he actually had a big game against Champ with 3 TD's. It happens to everyone and allowing 46 yards isn't bad. The way the rules are favoring WR's you can't deflect every pass.

yourfavestoner
05-28-2007, 01:26 AM
Well, it's officially the offseason. The Packer/Al Harris homers are starting to come out and play.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 01:28 AM
Every CB has a game where they don't shut down the receiver. Even Champ Bailey, Jerry Porter embarassed him in 2004 and he actually had a big game against Champ with 3 TD's. It happens to everyone and allowing 46 yards isn't bad. The way the rules are favoring WR's you can't deflect every pass.

You keep saying he's a shut down corner, when he couldn't shut down the team's number two WR and couldn't shut down steve smith either. So which is it?

He allowed at least one TD last year, Ken Lucas has allowed 3 in two years, THAT IS IT, and he was injured pretty much all of last year.

TheChampIsHere
05-28-2007, 05:23 AM
Champ
McCalister
Mathis
Newman
Lucas (based on strength of his 05 season)

hon mentions: DHall, Winfield, Asumgha, Clements, Lito

Ewing
05-28-2007, 07:26 AM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Chris McAllister
4. Ronde Barber
5. Terence Newman & DeAngelo Hall (tie)

The lack of Ronde Barber in this thread is stunning.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 07:29 AM
Ronde is a system CB that's why.

Rashean isn't close to being number two.

Ewing
05-28-2007, 07:36 AM
Ronde is a system CB that's why.

Rashean isn't close to being number two.

So we should being the best cover two corner ever against him? He's in that system, it's not his fault, and he fits it like a glove. Why the hell am I listening to you for anyway? You think the Panthers are better than the 1960's Packers judging by your posts.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 07:40 AM
Yeah right buddy, I call you for overrating a system player but I'm a homer.

You think Vince Young is the second coming of jesus, we've all got over defensive tendencies for our players.

Ewing
05-28-2007, 07:43 AM
Yeah right buddy, I call you for overrating a system player but I'm a homer.

You think Vince Young is the second coming of jesus, we've all got over defensive tendencies for our players.

The Panthers and Bucs are rivals, if you don't think even a tiny bit of homerism comes into your arguement than you're stupider than I thought.

I think Young has more raw potential than any quarterback in the last decade and is already among the top fifteen in the league. I never once put him above Rivers or anything like that. Compared to when you said Peppers was far and away the best player in the league.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 07:44 AM
Most game planned for, I didn't even say he was the best regardless of position. You can't read and cannot recall, so why comment.

Besides, Ronde regardless of system isn't a top 5 QB.

Chief49er
05-28-2007, 08:08 AM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCallister
3. Ty Law
4. Nate Clements
5. Rasheed Mathis

remix 6
05-28-2007, 08:45 AM
Ty Law hasnt been top 5 since '04

give it up. He had 10 INTs 2 seasons ago but he was overrated. Law is my favorite corner but get real.

bennybee38
05-28-2007, 08:58 AM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Asante Samuel
3. Rasheed Mathis
4. Chris McAlister
5. Ken Lucas


nasty list right there

LonghornsLegend
05-28-2007, 12:19 PM
guess im by myself in thinking ronde barber is still a top 5 corner in the league

remix 6
05-28-2007, 12:21 PM
As a Patriot fan..i have a question for ya'll. Why is Samuel so high on your list? I think u can put him top 10 but top 5..some as early as #2? Please ..explain

cunningham06
05-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Most game planned for, I didn't even say he was the best regardless of position. You can't read and cannot recall, so why comment.

Besides, Ronde regardless of system isn't a top 5 QB.

Ronde is not a top 5 CB, I love the guy, but he is not quite what he used to be.

Yung Flippa
05-28-2007, 12:52 PM
1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McCallister
3. Asante Samuel
4. Rasheed Mathis
5. Nate Clements

cunningham06
05-28-2007, 12:56 PM
You keep saying he's a shut down corner, when he couldn't shut down the team's number two WR and couldn't shut down steve smith either. So which is it?

He allowed at least one TD last year, Ken Lucas has allowed 3 in two years, THAT IS IT, and he was injured pretty much all of last year.

Touchdowns allowed is an overrated stat when the safeties play over the top a lot of the time. 5 catches for 46 yards is not a big game. Steve Smith dominated Samari Rolle, not Chris McCalister in that game. Rolle's coverage was pathetic and he gave up massive td catches that shouldn't have been. In scope of how that game turned out McCalister didn't do half bad. I just gave you an example of a commonly acknowledged shut down corner (Champ Bailey) getting beat in a game. McCalister wasn't beat nearly that bad. So unless you're saying Lucas is better than Bailey, which I wouldn't be surprised by since you are a massive homer, then I don't see what your point is.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 05:27 PM
Touchdowns allowed is an overrated stat when the safeties play over the top a lot of the time. 5 catches for 46 yards is not a big game. Steve Smith dominated Samari Rolle, not Chris McCalister in that game. Rolle's coverage was pathetic and he gave up massive td catches that shouldn't have been. In scope of how that game turned out McCalister didn't do half bad. I just gave you an example of a commonly acknowledged shut down corner (Champ Bailey) getting beat in a game. McCalister wasn't beat nearly that bad. So unless you're saying Lucas is better than Bailey, which I wouldn't be surprised by since you are a massive homer, then I don't see what your point is.
No where did I say Lucas was better than Bailey, just that McAllister was overrated. I know you'll struggle with simple concepts like following the conversation so focus here.

Steve Smith dominated Samari Rolle, but in the third quarter there were several instances where the offense shifted Smith to the other side and he faced McAllister, where he didn't get hindered at all either.

Keyshawn caught all but one ball thrown his way and produced higher than his season average as a number two receiver.

Oh and you saying that TDs allowed is a ******** statistic, last year our starting safeties were Mike Minter and Colin Branch... You want to tell me that's an all pro pair? Or even both of them are equal to Ed Reed?

Get over yourself. McAllister is good, but he's not number 2.

GermanSaint
05-28-2007, 05:50 PM
1.not newman or hall
2.not newman or hall
3.not newman or hall
4.not newman or hall
5.not newman or hall

cunningham06
05-28-2007, 09:04 PM
No where did I say Lucas was better than Bailey, just that McAllister was overrated. I know you'll struggle with simple concepts like following the conversation so focus here.

Steve Smith dominated Samari Rolle, but in the third quarter there were several instances where the offense shifted Smith to the other side and he faced McAllister, where he didn't get hindered at all either.

Keyshawn caught all but one ball thrown his way and produced higher than his season average as a number two receiver.

Oh and you saying that TDs allowed is a ******** statistic, last year our starting safeties were Mike Minter and Colin Branch... You want to tell me that's an all pro pair? Or even both of them are equal to Ed Reed?

Get over yourself. McAllister is good, but he's not number 2.

Get over myself? What are you talking about? That doesn't even apply here since you're the one who stubbornly won't admit that a player from a different team is better than Ken Lucas. If you think Keyshawn having 46 yards and 5 receptions proves that McCalister is not the second best corner in the game, you are completely dillusional. Anyway look at the fantastic interception he made in that game and how he kept his feet in bounds.

Since you are so blatantly a homer that you can't accept multitudes of people telling you you are wrong there are several games where Lucas performed poorly, (which you can't say for McCalister in the Panthers game, that was an average outing.). How about the first game of the season against the Falcons. Michael Jenkins had 3 receptions for 77 yards and a TD. His TD catch he caught right in front of Lucas, who missed the tackle, and Jenkins took it to the house. You're saying that Key getting his measly 46 yards is bad? Lucas let the amazingly mediocre WR that is Michael Jenkins have his best game of the season against him. How about the Bucs game where he played too shallow to let Galloway catch the TD? The complete domination in Dallas? In the second Tampa Bay game Galloway did better against Lucas than Keyshawn did against McCalister.

Lucas had a down season, so he is not in the top 5. McCalister is a fantastic CB who was consistently great, but really broke out this season as far as getting picks.

As for Ed Reed they let him play centerfield a lot in Baltimore's defense. Landry and Reed are good enough that they don't want to waste their talents just playing them 2 deep. The Panthers do that a lot, so yes in their case I say TD's allowed is an overrated stat.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 11:03 PM
Lucas was injured in training camp and missed three starts, he didn't play in another 3 games past a few downs. He was injured most of the year and still only gave up 2 touchdowns, less touchdowns overall than McAllister.

cunningham06
05-28-2007, 11:25 PM
Lucas was injured in training camp and missed three starts, he didn't play in another 3 games past a few downs. He was injured most of the year and still only gave up 2 touchdowns, less touchdowns overall than McAllister.

I've heard three, plus no offense but your safeties kind of blow so two deep is about all they are capable of, similar to what the Cowboys did a lot. Most players in the NFL play hurt, it's a part of the game. Lucas didn't have a great season last season, which puts him a little behind the guys who had a good season last year. That's why he's not in my top 10. This season he will probably be back in.

BlindSite
05-28-2007, 11:28 PM
Three in two years

He's top 5, if you have him ranked differently you're wrong. Its that simple.

cunningham06
05-28-2007, 11:37 PM
Three in two years

He's top 5, if you have him ranked differently you're wrong. Its that simple.

Or I'm not a Lucas fanboy, you're just not impartial enough to make an accurate ranking. As of right now he is not top 5. If he dominates this season, I will put him there.

pierce2walker
05-29-2007, 12:05 AM
In this thread, DeAngelo Hall has been mentioned about 50 times, but Pacman Jones has been mentioned only once.

Pacman takes a lot of flak for his off-field antics, and deservedly so.....the guy's an idiot.

But on the field, he shuts people down. After struggling in the season opener, I don't remember him allowing a single completion of more than 15 yards in 2006....and even those were few and far between.

Most teams didn't throw at him at all. Those that did paid dearly.

It's a shame that his talent is so badly overshadowed by his behavior, because he's truly one of the most amazing players in the league.

Thank you. I think a lot of people throw Pacman off the table because of his off field antics...when he is on the field I think he could easily have an argument made for him being a top 5 corner...hes flat out shut down...when hes on the field that is.

whiteghost324
05-29-2007, 05:10 PM
1.Champ -the best hands down no one really comes close
2.Chris McAlister- great cover guy and is very good in run support
3. Terrence Newman- has let up only 3 TDS in the past 3 years. and cover slot in nickel formation
4.Nate Clements- will play up to his contract, a top cover guy for sure
5. Leah Boden- still needs to get his name out there but has been very good in his playing time, will show it to the world this year

jkpigskin
05-29-2007, 05:17 PM
Lucas was injured in training camp and missed three starts, he didn't play in another 3 games past a few downs. He was injured most of the year and still only gave up 2 touchdowns, less touchdowns overall than McAllister.

i can tell by this post that cunningham's argument got to you
anyway, IMO ken lucas is underrated and his stas 2 and 3 years ago say that he can be a top 5 corner, but i dont see how you can say he is better than mcalister

BlindSite
05-29-2007, 05:52 PM
I'm not saying he's better than McAllister, what I'm saying is that McAllister being the second best corner by everyone's consideration and Ken Lucas not being included in the top 5 is ridiculous because there's been times and there are areas where and when Lucas has outperformed him.