Smoking thread

[BlindSite]

Who smokes, tobacco, not that tweed, you kids love these days. ;)

I smoke, cigarettes peter jackson black special blend and the occasional cigar. Anyone else?

[jayceheathman]

Smokers are jokers.

[fenikz]

i smoke cigars some times, but mostly just what this thread isn't about

[WMD]

Smokers are jokers.

You got that right, compadre!

[iworshipbender]

Smokers are jokers.
boy, that was pretty cool.

i'm not a fan of tobacco, i will smoke on occasion, and when i do i smoke out of a bong or hookah because i've become so accustomed to them (from smoking *ahem* other materials) plus the water filters out the carcinogens.

[BlindSite]

boy, that was pretty cool.

i'm not a fan of tobacco, i will smoke on occasion, and when i do i smoke out of a bong or hookah because i've become so accustomed to them (from smoking *ahem* other materials) plus the water filters out the carcinogens.

I've heard that, but I've also heard its a myth.

Lets get myth busters to do an episode.

[iworshipbender]

when you inhale from a bong the water catches the ash, and it cools the smoke so it's easier to breathe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bong

[Caddy]

Blindsite, your an Aussie and must have seen those ads on TV about smoking, why do you still do it?

[diabsoule]

I'm trying to quit. Today will mark my 3rd day.
When I did smoke, I smoked Camel Lights.

[Jay]

I can honestly say that at 26 (almost 27) years old, I have never smoked a cigarette in my life. Or the funny stuff. Never appealed to me at all. Actually the smoke and smell of both kind of bother me.

I have had less than 10 cigars in my lifetime, though...

[BlindSite]

Blindsite, your an Aussie and must have seen those ads on TV about smoking, why do you still do it?

I enjoy it.

It helps me to relax, it helps me to deal with whatevers bothering me on the day and above all else it helps to keep me level. I smoke about 2 packs in a week, 3 if I'm out drinking one night, that's not a huge amount. I know that it causes cancer, but I mean, who wants to be 90 anyway?

Besides a lot of what you hear about the evils of smoking is complete garbage.

[Caddy]

I've seen some of the repercussions first hand, it just isn't fun at all.

[BlindSite]

Thats life dude, I believe if you're happier with smoking than without, the risks can't be all that bad.

You'll live longer being stress free and happy.

[Caddy]

Thats life dude, I believe if you're happier with smoking than without, the risks can't be all that bad.

You'll live longer being stress free and happy.

Hey it's your life and if it makes you happy then I wish you all the best.

[Beans]

I really don't get what persuades people to smoke (anything). Is a few moments of pleasure really worth turning your lungs black and rotting your teeth?

But whatever, I guess I "just don't get it".

(this also applies to drinking, 'cept that's got different side effects.)

[Go_Eagles77]

I smoked once in my life when I was 7.

[gbpackers0065]

a cigar once or twice a year is nice, hard to keep off of them though

[princefielder28]

Smokers are jokers.

well put!!!

[dabears10]

I don't smoke cigarettes. I love the occasional Cigar.

Why do people treat smokers as idiots? They understand what's happening to them but they still do it because they have weighed the positives and negatives. The positives must have won. If you don't want to smoke, great, but why chastize a person who does smoke?

Here's a question to add, Turn on/turn off a girl who smokes?

[P-L]

I smoked for about 2 months a few years ago before I decided it wasn't worth continuing. I still smoke cigars every once in awhile, but for the most part I don't smoke anymore.

[DorianSmith]

Smoking is *** and i hope u get lung cancer for being dumb

[SubNoize]

I only smoke shisha, but it has to be the herbal molasses form, as this way it contains no tar and no nicotine...I'll occasionally smoke a standard shisha though. I love going to Hookah bars and just chilling for a couple hours, it's relaxing.

[yourfavestoner]

Marlboro 27s. <3

[ncstateviking]

i smoke djarum blacks.

[yourfavestoner]

Also, here's something that some might find interesting...

Nicotine: What is it, and where does it come from?

Time to clear the air.

The best way to understand nicotine, if you don't have a lot of chemistry background is to understand table salt.

The chemical name for table salt is "sodium chloride". It is made up of two chemical elements named "sodium" and "chlorine".

Sodium is a soft, dull grey metal that looks a lot like aluminum or lead. Unlike aluminum or lead however, metallic sodium is rather unstable. Drop some of it into water and it immediately bursts into flames. Expose it to air and it reacts with oxygen and water vapor to form white, powdery crystals. It has to be stored in an oxygen free atmosphere to retain its pure, metallic form. Usually, it is stored in oil.

Chlorine is a highly toxic gas. When concentrated, it has a pale, yellowish green color. Like sodium, chlorine reacts quickly with just about everything. Chlorine bleach, which has chlorine dissolved in water, allows the water to dissolve wood, paper, cotton, fat, human skin, and just about every living tissue. This is why chlorine kills you pretty quickly if you inhale the stuff. Chlorine gas was one of the first chemical weapons invented and used in World War I.

However, mix sodium and chlorine together and the two neutralize each other to form sodium chloride, a harmless, stable chemical compound that we call "table salt". Small to moderate amounts of sodium chloride are found in every living thing on earth. In fact, without the stuff, a person would get sick and die.

Nicotine has a chemical nature much like sodium. In its pure form, which is called "freebase nicotine", it reacts chemically with oxygen in the air, with water, and most other living tissues, destroying them instantly.

Freebase nicotine is highly poisonous and is sometimes used as an insecticide. It makes a good insecticide because it only lasts about half an hour in the environment, being so unstable in the presence of air. In very small amounts, freebase nicotine can be injected into a person's bloodstream and has an effect almost identical to cocaine.

All green, living plants produce and store nicotine. They use the nicotine to produce another chemcal compound called NADP (nicotinic acid adenine dinucleotide phosphate). NADP is what breaks apart water molecules during photosynthesis. Plants make NADP from nitrates and phosphates found in the soil. The common name for nitrates and phosphates is "fertilizer".

The secret to how plants store nicotine, without the nicotine killing them, is that they combine it with other things to make more stable compounds. The common forms of nicotine stored in plants are nicotine citrate, nicotine malate, nicotine sulfate, nicotine oxide (cotinine), and nicotinic acid (vitamin B3, niacin). Like table salt, these compounds formed from nicotine are stable, are not poisonous, are not addictive drugs, and are essential to good human health and nutrition.

The tobacco plant stores its nicotine as a mixture of nicotine citrate and nicotine malate. The tobacco plant happens to produce a lot off nicotine because it grows quickly. Corn and hemp (marijuana) also produce and store nicotine at roughly the same rate as tobacco, because they also can grow six to ten feet in one season.

To give a clear picture of just how unstable freebase nicotine is, let's look at a few facts about it. According to the International Programme on Chemical Safety (IPCS), freebase nicotine has the following physical properties:

Melting Point: -80 degrees Celsius
Boiling Point: 247 degrees Celsius
Flash Point: 95 degrees Celsius
Auto-Ignition Temperature: 240 degrees Celsius
Explosive Limits: 0.7 - 4 percent, by volume, in air
Vapor Pressure at Room Temperature: 0.006 kPa


The interesting thing to note here is that the auto-ignition temperature is lower than the boiling point. This means that, if you heat freebase nicotine in an air free container, it will detonate (explode) before it boils.

Nicotine is so unstable that it does not need to react chemically with anything to have an explosion occur. Its low vapor pressure tells us that nicotine does not evaporate on its own. If you heat it, nicotine will decompose chemically before it boils. Furthermore, in the presence of air, nicotine bursts into flames at a temperature just below the boiling point of water.

For a reference on the physical properties of nicotine, you can check the IPCS:
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0519.htm (http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0519.htm)

In summary, what the above physical properties are saying is that there is no possible way in this universe, or any other, that a nicotine vapor can exist.

You can not get nicotine by burning tobacco.

The nicotine will chemically decompose before a vapor of it is formed. Furthermore, if any nicotine vapor did form by burning tobacco, it would burst into flames before any residual moisture in the tobacco leaves is boiled away.

Now, I realize that the stuff I just said is going to stomp hard on the religion that you have been taught since childhood, but there is no nicotine in tobacco smoke. Never has been and never will be.

When "scientists" study tobacco smoke to measure "nicotine content", they do not actually look for nicotine. They look for a different chemical named "cotinine", which is nicotine oxide.

Cotinine is neither harmful, nor addictive, nor psycho-active.

A great deal of research has been done on cotinine because it blocks the effects of cocaine on the human nervous system and is used medically for detoxification from cocaine addiction.

"Nicotine" is a chemical component of many related compounds, such as nicotine citrate, nicotine sulfate, nicotine malate, nicotine oxide (cotinine) and nicotinic acid (vitamin B3, niacin). Pure, free base, nicotine is a deadly poison, an addictive drug and also a good explosive. The above mentioned compounds containing nicotine however, bear as much resemblance to nicotine as table salt does to metallic sodium, or as water does to hydrogen.

Now, you may ask, if nicotine is so unstable, how do scientists get it to use as a pesticide? The method used to extract freebase nicotine from dried tobacco leaves was discovered in 1828, and can best be summarized by this quote from a 1911 encyclopedia:

NICOTINE, Ci0H14N2, an alkaloid, found with small quantities of nicotimine, C,9H14N2, nicoteine, Ci0Hl2N2, and nicotelline, CioH8N2, in tobacco.

The name is taken from Nicotiana, the tobacco plant, so called after Jean Nicot (1530-1600), French ambassador at Lisbon, who introduced tobacco into France in 1560. These four alkaloids exist in combination in tobacco chiefly as malates and citrates. The alkaloid is obtained from an aqueous extract of tobacco by distillation with slaked lime, the distillate being acidified with oxalic acid, concentrated to a syrup and decomposed by potash.

The free base is extracted by ether and fractionated in a current of hydrogen. It is a colorless oil, which boils at 247 C. (745 mm.), and when pure is almost odorless. It has a sharp burning taste, and is very poisonous.

It is very hygroscopic, dissolves readily in water, and rapidly undergoes oxidation on exposure to air. The free alkaloid is strongly laevo-rotatory. F. Ratz (Mounts., 1905, 26, p. 1241) obtained the value [o]u = 169-54 at 20; its salts are dextro-rotatory. It behaves as a di-acid as well as a di-tertiary base.

Here is a link to the web page of that enclopedia article:
http://77.1911encyclopedia.org/N/NI/NICOTINE.htm (http://77.1911encyclopedia.org/N/NI/NICOTINE.htm)

In other words, to get nicotine from tobacco, you would have to soak your dried tobacco leaves in water to produce an "aqueous extract". Then, mix that aqueous extract with slaked lime (calcium hydroxide). Then, mix the distillate with oxalic acid. Then concentrate it into a syrup. Then mix that syrup with some potash (potassium hydroxide). Then distill it again in an atmosphere of flowing ether and hydrogen. Do you take the time to do all this when you smoke a cigarette? Highly doubtful.

Stop to think, the next time you read some b.s. on "nicotine addiction" and realize that all this crap has been based on 75 years of pure "junk science" and propaganda. Who was it that said, "Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth?" I believe that the author of this strategy was a certain high ranking officer in the Nazi Party of Germany in the 1930s, which Party was also the origin of today's anti-tobacco religion.

When you burn tobacco, you don't get any freebase nicotine. What you get is an assortment of harmless, stable chemicals that result from the oxidation of nicotine. Visit a drug store and read the ingredients of "nicotine" gum, lozenges and patches. You will find that most of them contain no nicotine, but rather nicotine sulfate or nicotine oxide, or even good old vitamin B3 (nicotinic acid).

The fallacy that makes "nicotine addiction" junk science is that: Yes, if you make freebase nicotine in a chemical laboratory and inject it intravenously, it will act as a potent, addictive drug, and do every evil thing ascribed to nicotine. However, burning the tobacco does not produce any freebase nicotine.

Many double blind studies have already shown that "nicotine" patches, gum and lozenges are no more effective than placebos at stopping a smoking habit. Strictly, scientifically speaking, there is no (freebase) nicotine in tobacco smoke; never has been and never will be.

If you really want to nail the health-nazis to the wall in court, get the research scientists on the witness stand, under oath and penalty of perjury, and ask, "Did you actually measure 1.5 mg of pure, freebase, nicotine in the smoke from that cigarette, or was it actually cotinine that you measured?" The infamous FTC method devised in the 1960's for measuring the "nicotine" content of different brands of cigarettes is a test for cotinine (nicotine oxide). At the time, the researchers said they had to do it that way because it "is not possible to measure nicotine in tobacco smoke because nicotine decomposes too rapidly." A good library or even the web might have a paper telling exactly how the "FTC Method" is done. Do a Google search on "FTC Method" and I bet you find the word "cotinine" in the same paragraph.

http://193.78.190.200/smokersclub/nicotine.html

[gbpackers0065]

Also, here's something that some might find interesting...

Nicotine: What is it, and where does it come from?

Time to clear the air.

The best way to understand nicotine, if you don't have a lot of chemistry background is to understand table salt.

The chemical name for table salt is "sodium chloride". It is made up of two chemical elements named "sodium" and "chlorine".

Sodium is a soft, dull grey metal that looks a lot like aluminum or lead. Unlike aluminum or lead however, metallic sodium is rather unstable. Drop some of it into water and it immediately bursts into flames. Expose it to air and it reacts with oxygen and water vapor to form white, powdery crystals. It has to be stored in an oxygen free atmosphere to retain its pure, metallic form. Usually, it is stored in oil.

Chlorine is a highly toxic gas. When concentrated, it has a pale, yellowish green color. Like sodium, chlorine reacts quickly with just about everything. Chlorine bleach, which has chlorine dissolved in water, allows the water to dissolve wood, paper, cotton, fat, human skin, and just about every living tissue. This is why chlorine kills you pretty quickly if you inhale the stuff. Chlorine gas was one of the first chemical weapons invented and used in World War I.

However, mix sodium and chlorine together and the two neutralize each other to form sodium chloride, a harmless, stable chemical compound that we call "table salt". Small to moderate amounts of sodium chloride are found in every living thing on earth. In fact, without the stuff, a person would get sick and die.

Nicotine has a chemical nature much like sodium. In its pure form, which is called "freebase nicotine", it reacts chemically with oxygen in the air, with water, and most other living tissues, destroying them instantly.

Freebase nicotine is highly poisonous and is sometimes used as an insecticide. It makes a good insecticide because it only lasts about half an hour in the environment, being so unstable in the presence of air. In very small amounts, freebase nicotine can be injected into a person's bloodstream and has an effect almost identical to cocaine.

All green, living plants produce and store nicotine. They use the nicotine to produce another chemcal compound called NADP (nicotinic acid adenine dinucleotide phosphate). NADP is what breaks apart water molecules during photosynthesis. Plants make NADP from nitrates and phosphates found in the soil. The common name for nitrates and phosphates is "fertilizer".

The secret to how plants store nicotine, without the nicotine killing them, is that they combine it with other things to make more stable compounds. The common forms of nicotine stored in plants are nicotine citrate, nicotine malate, nicotine sulfate, nicotine oxide (cotinine), and nicotinic acid (vitamin B3, niacin). Like table salt, these compounds formed from nicotine are stable, are not poisonous, are not addictive drugs, and are essential to good human health and nutrition.

The tobacco plant stores its nicotine as a mixture of nicotine citrate and nicotine malate. The tobacco plant happens to produce a lot off nicotine because it grows quickly. Corn and hemp (marijuana) also produce and store nicotine at roughly the same rate as tobacco, because they also can grow six to ten feet in one season.

To give a clear picture of just how unstable freebase nicotine is, let's look at a few facts about it. According to the International Programme on Chemical Safety (IPCS), freebase nicotine has the following physical properties:

Melting Point: -80 degrees Celsius
Boiling Point: 247 degrees Celsius
Flash Point: 95 degrees Celsius
Auto-Ignition Temperature: 240 degrees Celsius
Explosive Limits: 0.7 - 4 percent, by volume, in air
Vapor Pressure at Room Temperature: 0.006 kPa


The interesting thing to note here is that the auto-ignition temperature is lower than the boiling point. This means that, if you heat freebase nicotine in an air free container, it will detonate (explode) before it boils.

Nicotine is so unstable that it does not need to react chemically with anything to have an explosion occur. Its low vapor pressure tells us that nicotine does not evaporate on its own. If you heat it, nicotine will decompose chemically before it boils. Furthermore, in the presence of air, nicotine bursts into flames at a temperature just below the boiling point of water.

For a reference on the physical properties of nicotine, you can check the IPCS:
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0519.htm (http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0519.htm)

In summary, what the above physical properties are saying is that there is no possible way in this universe, or any other, that a nicotine vapor can exist.

You can not get nicotine by burning tobacco.

The nicotine will chemically decompose before a vapor of it is formed. Furthermore, if any nicotine vapor did form by burning tobacco, it would burst into flames before any residual moisture in the tobacco leaves is boiled away.

Now, I realize that the stuff I just said is going to stomp hard on the religion that you have been taught since childhood, but there is no nicotine in tobacco smoke. Never has been and never will be.

When "scientists" study tobacco smoke to measure "nicotine content", they do not actually look for nicotine. They look for a different chemical named "cotinine", which is nicotine oxide.

Cotinine is neither harmful, nor addictive, nor psycho-active.

A great deal of research has been done on cotinine because it blocks the effects of cocaine on the human nervous system and is used medically for detoxification from cocaine addiction.

"Nicotine" is a chemical component of many related compounds, such as nicotine citrate, nicotine sulfate, nicotine malate, nicotine oxide (cotinine) and nicotinic acid (vitamin B3, niacin). Pure, free base, nicotine is a deadly poison, an addictive drug and also a good explosive. The above mentioned compounds containing nicotine however, bear as much resemblance to nicotine as table salt does to metallic sodium, or as water does to hydrogen.

Now, you may ask, if nicotine is so unstable, how do scientists get it to use as a pesticide? The method used to extract freebase nicotine from dried tobacco leaves was discovered in 1828, and can best be summarized by this quote from a 1911 encyclopedia:

NICOTINE, Ci0H14N2, an alkaloid, found with small quantities of nicotimine, C,9H14N2, nicoteine, Ci0Hl2N2, and nicotelline, CioH8N2, in tobacco.

The name is taken from Nicotiana, the tobacco plant, so called after Jean Nicot (1530-1600), French ambassador at Lisbon, who introduced tobacco into France in 1560. These four alkaloids exist in combination in tobacco chiefly as malates and citrates. The alkaloid is obtained from an aqueous extract of tobacco by distillation with slaked lime, the distillate being acidified with oxalic acid, concentrated to a syrup and decomposed by potash.

The free base is extracted by ether and fractionated in a current of hydrogen. It is a colorless oil, which boils at 247 C. (745 mm.), and when pure is almost odorless. It has a sharp burning taste, and is very poisonous.

It is very hygroscopic, dissolves readily in water, and rapidly undergoes oxidation on exposure to air. The free alkaloid is strongly laevo-rotatory. F. Ratz (Mounts., 1905, 26, p. 1241) obtained the value [o]u = 169-54 at 20; its salts are dextro-rotatory. It behaves as a di-acid as well as a di-tertiary base.

Here is a link to the web page of that enclopedia article:
http://77.1911encyclopedia.org/N/NI/NICOTINE.htm (http://77.1911encyclopedia.org/N/NI/NICOTINE.htm)

In other words, to get nicotine from tobacco, you would have to soak your dried tobacco leaves in water to produce an "aqueous extract". Then, mix that aqueous extract with slaked lime (calcium hydroxide). Then, mix the distillate with oxalic acid. Then concentrate it into a syrup. Then mix that syrup with some potash (potassium hydroxide). Then distill it again in an atmosphere of flowing ether and hydrogen. Do you take the time to do all this when you smoke a cigarette? Highly doubtful.

Stop to think, the next time you read some b.s. on "nicotine addiction" and realize that all this crap has been based on 75 years of pure "junk science" and propaganda. Who was it that said, "Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth?" I believe that the author of this strategy was a certain high ranking officer in the Nazi Party of Germany in the 1930s, which Party was also the origin of today's anti-tobacco religion.

When you burn tobacco, you don't get any freebase nicotine. What you get is an assortment of harmless, stable chemicals that result from the oxidation of nicotine. Visit a drug store and read the ingredients of "nicotine" gum, lozenges and patches. You will find that most of them contain no nicotine, but rather nicotine sulfate or nicotine oxide, or even good old vitamin B3 (nicotinic acid).

The fallacy that makes "nicotine addiction" junk science is that: Yes, if you make freebase nicotine in a chemical laboratory and inject it intravenously, it will act as a potent, addictive drug, and do every evil thing ascribed to nicotine. However, burning the tobacco does not produce any freebase nicotine.

Many double blind studies have already shown that "nicotine" patches, gum and lozenges are no more effective than placebos at stopping a smoking habit. Strictly, scientifically speaking, there is no (freebase) nicotine in tobacco smoke; never has been and never will be.

If you really want to nail the health-nazis to the wall in court, get the research scientists on the witness stand, under oath and penalty of perjury, and ask, "Did you actually measure 1.5 mg of pure, freebase, nicotine in the smoke from that cigarette, or was it actually cotinine that you measured?" The infamous FTC method devised in the 1960's for measuring the "nicotine" content of different brands of cigarettes is a test for cotinine (nicotine oxide). At the time, the researchers said they had to do it that way because it "is not possible to measure nicotine in tobacco smoke because nicotine decomposes too rapidly." A good library or even the web might have a paper telling exactly how the "FTC Method" is done. Do a Google search on "FTC Method" and I bet you find the word "cotinine" in the same paragraph.

http://193.78.190.200/smokersclub/nicotine.html

yea but it doesnt mean all of cigarettes are harmless, those lies you mention may be spread(btw, ill consult with my father on this, he is a chemist) it doesnt mean that other parts of cigarettes arent harmful

[Smokey Joe]

whoever smokes should have their hands chopped off. No offense, but whoever smokes cigarettes regularly is a ******* dumbass. I can handle Cigars once in a while, but smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, give me a break.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves.

[Ravens1991]

I am wondering, why does everybody smoke?

[bored of education]

it's so kool

[Hurricane Ditka]

Marlboro Smooths for the win. I also roll my own on occasion, Velvet Peach Tops for the win!.

[sweetness34]

A) Smoking is nasty as hell

B) It gives you yellow teeth

C) It smells like ****

D) Have you seen what they put in cigarettes, especially the domestic ones

E) Killing your body

Seriously, why do people smoke? It's just flat out nasty as hell. Do you people realize what you're doing to your lungs? Nasty, nasty habit.

[DorianSmith]

A) Smoking is nasty as hell

B) It gives you yellow teeth

C) It smells like ****

D) Have you seen what they put in cigarettes, especially the domestic ones

E) Killing your body

Seriously, why do people smoke? It's just flat out nasty as hell. Do you people realize what you're doing to your lungs? Nasty, nasty habit.

agreed it is horrible if u smoke i really hope it teachs u a lesson and screws up ur body

[Hurricane Ditka]

A) Smoking is nasty as hell

B) It gives you yellow teeth

C) It smells like ****

D) Have you seen what they put in cigarettes, especially the domestic ones

E) Killing your body

Seriously, why do people smoke? It's just flat out nasty as hell. Do you people realize what you're doing to your lungs? Nasty, nasty habit.
Cigarettes are delicious.

[SubNoize]

yeah let's wish bodily harm on people because they have a vice!!! God, I don't smoke ciggs. but I have no beef with people that do, I understand how it can be enjoyful and nerve easing. The only thing i don't like about smoking is if people do it in when I'm eating out anywhere, but it's banned in food joints and bars here anyways, you have to be at least 20 ft. away.

[cunningham06]

I smoke a birthday stoge about once every 3 months with a buddy, but that's it. I will never smoke cigarettes because it would make me feel like a ***** having that little thin gross piece of crap in my mouth. If you smoke, a lot of non-smoking girls are really turned off by it. Smoking is a huge turn off for me I hate it when girls smoke. If you've ever kissed someone who smokes you'll know where I'm coming from that it's nasty as hell.

[ncstateviking]

cigs get a bad wrap. why do people over eat? why do people do drugs? why do people drink? why do people carry guns? why do people have eating disorders?

its dumb to act like cigarettes are some dumb pointless thing more so than others.

[JF4]

I've tried it before, it really isn't worth all that money you spend on it and your future health.

[regoob2]

i personally dont smoke anymore but when i did it was because they taste good and it relieves stress. when your in a bad mood just take a deep puff and your back in flavor country. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[someone447]

I have never smoked a cigarette and I never will, but I occasionally smoke cigars, dip, and smoke the hookah, and occasionally am known to indulge in the wacky tobaccy.

[rchrd]

Cigarettes are delicious.

^^ What he said. I like roll ups more but cant be bothered with the effort, prefer Marly reds or B&H gold in straights.

I like how when it comes to smokers people think they can make sweeping generalisations and act like they've made a point. Makes me giggle anyway.

[Xonraider]

Smoking is the worse habit you can have. People who don't admit it is just say ''it is delicious!''. It is pretty much like an emo cutting himself.

[regoob2]

there are a lot worse of habits. what about petaphiles? thats pretty bad.

[Xiomera]

there are a lot worse of habits. what about petaphiles? thats pretty bad.

hmm . . . close call . . . :rolleyes:

I think you're missing the point.

[TH3]

hmm . . . close call . . . :rolleyes:

I think you're missing the point.

dont listen to him he is just protecting his own kind.... Xio's Moto... if theres grass on the field play with it and even if there isn't plant the seed

[Xiomera]

dont listen to him he is just protecting his own kind.... Xio's Moto... if theres grass on the field play with it and even if there isn't plant the seed

Cool dude . . . :rolleyes:

[TH3]

Cool dude . . . :rolleyes:

The Aristocrats?

[BlindSite]

whoever smokes should have their hands chopped off. No offense, but whoever smokes cigarettes regularly is a ******* dumbass. I can handle Cigars once in a while, but smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, give me a break.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves.

A) Smoking is nasty as hell

B) It gives you yellow teeth

C) It smells like ****

D) Have you seen what they put in cigarettes, especially the domestic ones

E) Killing your body

Seriously, why do people smoke? It's just flat out nasty as hell. Do you people realize what you're doing to your lungs? Nasty, nasty habit.

Wow, I'm kind of surprised that none of you have tolerance for your fellow man. If I came in here and said I hate **** I'd get banned, saying ass sex is a nasty habit. I'm talking about something that doesn't harm other people that I enjoy and people are hating...

Its my choice? If you drink, if you eat fast food, you shouldnt comment on how bad smoking is for you...

[TCU]

do any of yall "D", dip/ smokeless tobacco?

[fenikz]

Thats life dude, I believe if you're happier with smoking than without, the risks can't be all that bad.

You'll live longer being stress free and happy.

just remember it not always about you, my dad died when i was 13 from a brain tumor caused from smoking, left me and my family with nothing, my mom has been working 3 jobs for about 4 years now


im not trying to tell you how to live your life thought, do what ever you want

[Xiomera]

Wow, I'm kind of surprised that none of you have tolerance for your fellow man. If I came in here and said I hate **** I'd get banned, saying ass sex is a nasty habit. I'm talking about something that doesn't harm other people that I enjoy and people are hating...

Its my choice? If you drink, if you eat fast food, you shouldnt comment on how bad smoking is for you...

Eating a lot of fast food doesn't affect other people. Second hand smoke can kill and is annoying as hell.

[sweetness34]

Wow, I'm kind of surprised that none of you have tolerance for your fellow man. If I came in here and said I hate **** I'd get banned, saying ass sex is a nasty habit. I'm talking about something that doesn't harm other people that I enjoy and people are hating...

Its my choice? If you drink, if you eat fast food, you shouldnt comment on how bad smoking is for you...

Wait what? You realize 2nd hand smoke kills people don't you? Smoking harms more than yourself.

[Eagles own the NFC East]

I smoke cigarretes, cigars, and black and milds occasionally. I prefer weed but its hard to smoke too much weed during the school year.

[sweetness34]

I will say that occasionally I break out a black and mild or I dip, but that's about once every couple of months, if that.

[KILLERSANTA]

Smokers are jokers.

their are cooler ways to die

[Eagles own the NFC East]

dipping sucks

[sweetness34]

dipping sucks

Advantages of dipping:

1) You don't harm anyone else but yourself

2) You don't make anyone else uncomfortable

3) You get a buzz

4) Different flavors

[iworshipbender]

Eating a lot of fast food doesn't affect other people. Second hand smoke can kill and is annoying as hell.
i disagree, fast food does affect me, if i have to live with all the morbidly obese people in this country, you should have to live with all the smokers too.

[iworshipbender]

Advantages of dipping:

1) You don't harm anyone else but yourself

2) You don't make anyone else uncomfortable

3) You get a buzz

4) Different flavors

i have a friend who dips. he has hair on his tounge.

[sweetness34]

i disagree, fast food does affect me, if i have to live with all the morbidly obese people in this country, you should have to live with all the smokers too.

Yes but obese people do not physically harm you if they're just sitting there, they may be unpleasant to look at but it's not going to kill you. 2nd hand smoke is very harmful to your body..

[iworshipbender]

Yes but obese people do not physically harm you if they're just sitting there, they may be unpleasant to look at but it's not going to kill you. 2nd hand smoke is very harmful to your body..
i never argued that second hand smoke wasn't bad, i just argued that fast food affects me, it kills my sex drive to have to look at them, i become nauseous when i see fat chicks etc.

[sweetness34]

i never argued that second hand smoke wasn't bad, i just argued that fast food affects me, it kills my sex drive to have to look at them, i become nauseous when i see fat chicks etc.

Obesity and 2nd hand smoke are not even close on this topic.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Marlboro Smooths for the win.

For f'n shizzle.

Although I plan on quitting. Soon. Maybe.

I want to start exercising and being all healthy and such again.

[iworshipbender]

Obesity and 2nd hand smoke are not even close on this topic.

again, i never said second hand smoking is good for you, or better than being disgusted by morbidly obese people. i simply stated that i find being forced to look at fat people because i live in america as disgusting as some people find second hand smoking to be. i'm not a fan of second hand smoke myself, i gag and cough every time i inhale it, however i would rather be in a room with a bunch of second hand smoke rather than a room with sweaty obese people.

[someone447]

Yes but obese people do not physically harm you if they're just sitting there, they may be unpleasant to look at but it's not going to kill you. 2nd hand smoke is very harmful to your body..

Which is why I like that many cities have banned smoking indoors. But people smoking outdoors doesn't affect me, nor anyone else. The smoke dissipates too quickly to do any damage.

[dabears10]

http://tv-links.co.uk/link.do/1/1919/2713/18333/29554

Yeah, the reports on second hand smoke that are used to argue about second hand smoke being bad and connected to cancer.
Just because you are annoyed by it doesn't mean that your rights are more important than theirs.

[yourfavestoner]

You guys do realize that there have been numerous studies showing that second hand smoke is nowhere near as dangerous as people would lead you to believe, right?

[KCJ58]

Smoking is illegal! :)

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

most studies are exaggerations.

[Xiomera]

i disagree, fast food does affect me, if i have to live with all the morbidly obese people in this country, you should have to live with all the smokers too.

That response is comical.

[-black]

http://drawn--together.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mr.mackey.jpg

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

I can only see Tripod.com

[Xiomera]

Which is why I like that many cities have banned smoking indoors. But people smoking outdoors doesn't affect me, nor anyone else. The smoke dissipates too quickly to do any damage.

I would settle for this. Canada has already done it . . . right?

[sweetness34]

You guys do realize that there have been numerous studies showing that second hand smoke is nowhere near as dangerous as people would lead you to believe, right?

Yet it's still the highest killer in the United States and 2nd hand smoke still claims the lives of people.

[Zim3031]

If you don't want to inhale second-hand smoke it's as simple as asking them nicely to stop or walking away. The smoking ban in bars and restaurants absolutely destroyed businesses when they instituted it in New York.

[Phrost]

I love how people try to justify smoking in this thread. It is bad for you end of story.

[sweetness34]

If you don't want to inhale second-hand smoke it's as simple as asking them nicely to stop or walking away. The smoking ban in bars and restaurants absolutely destroyed businesses when they instituted it in New York.

Not really. In a restaurant, there is little to separate smoking from non-smoking and the smoke tends to travel accross the room.

[Zim3031]

Not really. In a restaurant, there is little to separate smoking from non-smoking and the smoke tends to travel accross the room.
Then go to a restaurant that doesn't permit smoking or does have a clear distinction between smoking and non-smoking sections. If there truly is a great demand for non-smoking restaurants, then they will open up. It's not fair to destroy so many of these bars and restaurants that relied on smokers for business by not letting them run their business the way they see fit.

[sweetness34]

Then go to a restaurant that doesn't permit smoking or does have a clear distinction between smoking and non-smoking sections. If there truly is a great demand for non-smoking restaurants, then they will open up. It's not fair to destroy so many of these bars and restaurants that relied on smokers for business by not letting them run their business the way they see fit.

Why don't they make it a private club then? I know that's the talk here in Bloomington for bars who relied on smokers. If they make themselves a club I believe they can permit smoking in their place.

Either that or actually create smoking and non-smoking sections. Block off each side with a wall or something and have some sort of filtration system. That way the smoke stays on the smoking side and doesn't leak over to the non-smoking side.

[Zim3031]

Why don't they make it a private club then? I know that's the talk here in Bloomington for bars who relied on smokers. If they make themselves a club I believe they can permit smoking in their place.

I'm not entirely familiar with the laws in New York, but I highly doubt that it would have been so easy for them to do something like that or they would've done it.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Why don't they make it a private club then? I know that's the talk here in Bloomington for bars who relied on smokers. If they make themselves a club I believe they can permit smoking in their place.

Either that or actually create smoking and non-smoking sections. Block off each side with a wall or something and have some sort of filtration system. That way the smoke stays on the smoking side and doesn't leak over to the non-smoking side.

OR MAYBE you (and everybody else) can just respect the business owner's right to choose whether or not he wants to permit smoking. If it pisses off non-smokers, business will be lost, AND THEN the business owner will make the decision for himself to ban smoking, instead of being forced.

[jayceheathman]

again, i never said second hand smoking is good for you, or better than being disgusted by morbidly obese people. i simply stated that i find being forced to look at fat people because i live in america as disgusting as some people find second hand smoking to be. i'm not a fan of second hand smoke myself, i gag and cough every time i inhale it, however i would rather be in a room with a bunch of second hand smoke rather than a room with sweaty obese people.

What if you were in a room with sweaty, obese smokers? Thats like the worst of both worlds right there.

[Hurricane Ditka]

Why don't they make it a private club then? I know that's the talk here in Bloomington for bars who relied on smokers. If they make themselves a club I believe they can permit smoking in their place.

Either that or actually create smoking and non-smoking sections. Block off each side with a wall or something and have some sort of filtration system. That way the smoke stays on the smoking side and doesn't leak over to the non-smoking side.
Are there places in BM to smoke anymore? I suppose I'll need to figure that out soon.

[Xiomera]

If you don't want to inhale second-hand smoke it's as simple as asking them nicely to stop or walking away. The smoking ban in bars and restaurants absolutely destroyed businesses when they instituted it in New York.

I just don't see why non-smokers should have to accomodate the smokers . . .

[jballa838]

I just don't see why non-smokers should have to accomodate the smokers . . .

Me either. .

[someone447]

I just don't see why non-smokers should have to accomodate the smokers . . .

You can make the argument why should smokers have to accomodate nonsmokers too. I think that bars should be exempt from any non smoking laws. However, restaurants should be all non smoking, because the smoke ruins the taste of the food. If a bar wants to be non-smoking, more power to them, if they want to allow smoking, they should have that right.

[Zim3031]

I just don't see why non-smokers should have to accomodate the smokers . . .
Why should so many businesses be forced to lose so much money because you don't like the smell of smoke? Why should the smokers be forced to change because you don't like their habits? If somebody is doing something that bothers me or is making me uncomfortable, I have the courtesy to ask them to stop or go elsewhere. I don't need the government to come in and be my nanny.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

You can make the argument why should smokers have to accomodate nonsmokers too. I think that bars should be exempt from any non smoking laws. However, restaurants should be all non smoking, because the smoke ruins the taste of the food. If a bar wants to be non-smoking, more power to them, if they want to allow smoking, they should have that right.

Every business owner should have the right to decide whether or not to permit smoking in his or her establishment. If business sucks because too many people dislike the smoking environment, that's called a poor business decision, but at least the decision is the owner's alone.

[Xiomera]

You can make the argument why should smokers have to accomodate nonsmokers too. I think that bars should be exempt from any non smoking laws. However, restaurants should be all non smoking, because the smoke ruins the taste of the food. If a bar wants to be non-smoking, more power to them, if they want to allow smoking, they should have that right.

I'd be curious to hear a compelling argument for this . . .

But you're probably right . . . it's us damn non-smokers that are just ruining all the fun . . . you know, staying alive longer and everything . . .

[Xiomera]

Why should so many businesses be forced to lose so much money because you don't like the smell of smoke? Why should the smokers be forced to change because you don't like their habits? If somebody is doing something that bothers me or is making me uncomfortable, I have the courtesy to ask them to stop or go elsewhere. I don't need the government to come in and be my nanny.

That's quite an ignorant post if I don't say so myself . . .

[TCU]

i have a friend who dips. he has hair on his tounge.

well thats totally random and not from dips
i have about 20 friends who takes fat D's (dip) and none have hair on their tounge.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

I'd be curious to hear a compelling argument for this . . .

But you're probably right . . . it's us damn non-smokers that are just ruining all the fun . . . you know, staying alive longer and everything . . .

Just because smokers are in the minority doesn't mean they shouldn't have the right to smoke, as long as it's not putting anybody else in harm's way... I'm sorry, but you choosing to go to a restaurant or bar that permits smoking is you putting YOURSELF in harm's way.

[Zim3031]

That's quite an ignorant post if I don't say so myself . . .
I agree, a world where a business owner is allowed to run his business the way he wishes without the government coming in and destroying it is lunacy. Proprietary rights? nonsense!

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Up here in Ottawa, they put in that no-smoking indoors thing a few years back. I don't really have a problem with smoking. I don't do it, but I don't mind if others do. I used to have the view that all smokers were bad people, but then I started talking to one, cuz I sat next to her in math class and I realised she really wasn't bad, at all. Since then I've had a very high tolerance, for pretty much anything. If the smoke bothers me, I'll move. It's not like sitting in an area with people smoking is gonna cause anything less than temporary discomfort.

[kalbears13]

For the person who asked on the first page...yes, a woman who smokes is a turn-off.

[someone447]

I'd be curious to hear a compelling argument for this . . .

But you're probably right . . . it's us damn non-smokers that are just ruining all the fun . . . you know, staying alive longer and everything . . .

As I would also like to hear a compelling argument to not allow smoking. It is just putting your morals on someone else, which I don't agree with at all. Of course I like the non smoking in public places law they have here in El Paso. But I wouldn't have voted for it. You will not get lung cancer from the rare times you are in an area with smokers. It only causes temporary discomfort, just as not allowing someone who is addicted to nicotine smoke causes them temporary discomfort.

[dabears10]

I'd be curious to hear a compelling argument for this . . .

But you're probably right . . . it's us damn non-smokers that are just ruining all the fun . . . you know, staying alive longer and everything . . .

It's not about that at all.

How is it ethical for the government to keep a business for accomodating people taking part in a LEGAL act. It is not like these business are allowing herion usage in the table next to you.

[cunningham06]

It's not about that at all.

How is it ethical for the government to keep a business for accomodating people taking part in a LEGAL act. It is not like these business are allowing herion usage in the table next to you.

Probably some ulterior motives involved, like the eventual phasing out of cigarettes. That's what all of these new policies are trying to accomplish, making cigarettes more expensive, dictating where you can smoke them, etc.

[sweetness34]

HD no there aren't any public places to smoke around here.

I do agree about the bars though, I think they should be smoking if they so choose. But for a public restaurant, non-smoking are make a barrier to separate the two sides. Our IHOP does that and it's very effective.

The problem with smoke is that it doesn't just stay in one area, it spreads to other areas and it becomes very annoying and disgusting to people who don't smoke.

[YAYareaRB]

Black and milds only when I drink..

[bearsfan_51]

This thread is suprisingly ridiculous. I guess the anti-smoking barage is more effective in shaping the discourse than I thought. Then again I go to the bars 3-4 times a week and everyone smokes.

I just find it interesting that so many of you talk about binge drinking like it's the coolest **** in the world (even though most of you in high school have no idea what real drinking is) but yet you're so quick to **** your pants about smoking.

Seriously...lighten the funk up.

[bearsfan_51]

As for fat people not affecting other people....I couldn't disagree more. Have you ever sat next to a fat person on an airplane? Incredibly bothersome. My friend works at a hospital and there is a guy that is in there every other week because he chronically eats fatty foods. He also has no health insurance, which means that he's racking up massive medical bills that the taxpayers pay.

[JF4]

I would settle for this. Canada has already done it . . . right?

Correct...

[bearsfan_51]

As I would also like to hear a compelling argument to not allow smoking. It is just putting your morals on someone else, which I don't agree with at all. Of course I like the non smoking in public places law they have here in El Paso. But I wouldn't have voted for it. You will not get lung cancer from the rare times you are in an area with smokers. It only causes temporary discomfort, just as not allowing someone who is addicted to nicotine smoke causes them temporary discomfort.
While I'm a smoker, by your (and others) logic, you're saying that segregation was ok too. Or murder for that matter. Every single law that we have is pushing someone's "morals" onto someone else.

I don't mind the smoking bans. Just walk outside, it's not a big deal. Bars aren't losing any business either, and every study that has ever been done has reinforced that.

[BlindSite]

By the way, anyone bitching about second hand smoke killing people, you might want to do some research, Rob Reiner is full of ****, studies conducted that proved second hand smoke to be dangerous was thrown out as being ********.

The real ******** is that by the time that happened the laws were already in place and morons already brainwashed.

[sweetness34]

By the way, anyone bitching about second hand smoke killing people, you might want to do some research, Rob Reiner is full of ****, studies conducted that proved second hand smoke to be dangerous was thrown out as being ********.

The real ******** is that by the time that happened the laws were already in place and morons already brainwashed.

I'll call ******** on that one. Especially for younger kids, 2nd hand smoke is extremely dangerous.

[TH3]

By the way, anyone bitching about second hand smoke killing people, you might want to do some research, Rob Reiner is full of ****, studies conducted that proved second hand smoke to be dangerous was thrown out as being ********.

The real ******** is that by the time that happened the laws were already in place and morons already brainwashed.

please provide a reliable study that backs your statment up

[Moses]

By the way, anyone bitching about second hand smoke killing people, you might want to do some research, Rob Reiner is full of ****, studies conducted that proved second hand smoke to be dangerous was thrown out as being ********.

The real ******** is that by the time that happened the laws were already in place and morons already brainwashed.

I don't know much about smoking and second-hand smoke, but I would like to see some evidence backing up your statements.

Wikipedia has a bunch of sources that seem to believe that second-hand smoke is dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking

[sweetness34]

I don't know much about smoking and second-hand smoke, but I would like to see some evidence backing up your statements.

Wikipedia has a bunch of sources that seem to believe that second-hand smoke is dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_smoking

That's because it is. It's incredibly harmful to young infants.

[bearsfan_51]

The statistics are skewed in how they are presented.

For example. Say that I told you that you had a 100% times greater chance of getting lung cancer from second hand smoke than not. You'd say "Holy crap 100%!!!". Sounds like a lot.

However, the odds of someone getting lung cancer naturally is pretty small. Let's say it's 1 in 100,000. So...even if you are exposed to second hand smoke every single day of your life (which is what these studies are based on) the likelyhood of you getting lung cancer is still about 1 in 50,000.

Is that a shift? Certainly. Does second hand smoke increase the likelyhood of getting cancer? Sure. However, the way the stats are presented is what's misleading.

Furthermore, stress can lead to cancer. There are no laws against me talking very loudly in public, even though it's stressful to others. I know that's an extreme example, and I've already said I'm fine with most of the public bans, but people talk about second hand smoke as if it's a giant killer and it's not. It's not even close.

[bearsfan_51]

That's because it is. It's incredibly harmful to young infants.
I don't even know the differentiation in effect, but how often is a stranger smoking near a baby anyway? The only person that does that is the parent and people that smoke near their children are going to do a lot more stupid things too.

[Moses]

The statistics are skewed in how they are presented.

For example. Say that I told you that you had a 100% times greater chance of getting lung cancer from second hand smoke than not. You'd say "Holy crap 100%!!!". Sounds like a lot.

However, the odds of someone getting lung cancer naturally is pretty small. Let's say it's 1 in 100,000. So...even if you are exposed to second hand smoke every single day of your life (which is what these studies are based on) the likelyhood of you getting lung cancer is still about 1 in 50,000.

Is that a shift? Certainly. Does second hand smoke increase the likelyhood of getting cancer? Sure. However, the way the stats are presented is what's misleading.

Furthermore, stress can lead to cancer. There are no laws against me talking very loudly in public, even though it's stressful to others. I know that's an extreme example, and I've already said I'm fine with most of the public bans, but people talk about second hand smoke as if it's a giant killer and it's not. It's not even close.

I don't even worry about dying or anything from second hand smoke, I just find it annoying. Last thing I want to do in a bar is sit there inhaling smoke the whole time.

[bearsfan_51]

EDIT: Moses's link says 20-30%, which is actually a VERY small increase. It's like taking 20% of .0001 and adding that onto .0001

[bearsfan_51]

I don't even worry about dying or anything from second hand smoke, I just find it annoying. Last thing I want to do in a bar is sit there inhaling smoke the whole time.
And THAT is the real truth. It's a propaganda campaign by people that aren't really worried about "passive smoke" for health concerns, they just don't like smoke.

[sweetness34]

I don't even know the differentiation in effect, but how often is a stranger smoking near a baby anyway? The only person that does that is the parent and people that smoke near their children are going to do a lot more stupid things too.

It's still harmful to young kids and it's harmful in general. Is it a "global killer" no it's not but it's still somewhat dangerous.

[bearsfan_51]

It's still harmful to young kids and it's harmful in general. Is it a "global killer" no it's not but it's still somewhat dangerous.
Ok. Lots of things are somewhat dangerous. Walking fast is somewhat dangerous. What exactely is the point?

[Moses]

And THAT is the real truth. It's a propaganda campaign by people that aren't really worried about "passive smoke" for health concerns, they just don't like smoke.

I wouldn't disagree with that. I'm obviously biased as a non-smoker but I think it's fair that public places should be smoke-free. If you want to smoke on your own property or any non-public area, go ahead, it's your body. Just don't force other people to inhale your smoke.

[sweetness34]

Ok. Lots of things are somewhat dangerous. Walking fast is somewhat dangerous. What exactely is the point?

http://www.lungoregon.org/tobacco/secondhand.html

I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of little kids. SIDS is the 2nd leading cause of death in infants.

[getwellchad]

Eating a lot of fast food doesn't affect other people. Second hand smoke can kill and is annoying as hell.
Really? Care to elaborate.

[BlindSite]

I wouldn't disagree with that. I'm obviously biased as a non-smoker but I think it's fair that public places should be smoke-free. If you want to smoke on your own property or any non-public area, go ahead, it's your body. Just don't force other people to inhale your smoke.

How is it fair to make me walk out of an open air mall or beer garden to smoke just because you don't like the smell?

You could walk inside, you could turn your back, or walk 5m away.

If I don't like someone's perfume I don't stand near them, if I don't like their singing, I'll go inside to a sportsbar, what I won't do is impose my will on other people.

It takes about 7 minutes for someone to have a cigarette and the average person about 30 seconds to get used to a smell in the air. 30 second of you being uncomfortable because you choose to stand near a smoker is fair.

Anywhere outdoors should be legal to smoke.

[M.O.T.H.]

30 seconds? I can never get used to the smell...just awful. I went to "The Downs" today, off-track betting, and the whole place reeked of smoke... i just cant stand it...It gets all over your clothes...eww and it just makes you or atleast me feel sick/nauseated...

[TH3]

arguements with no end i love them....

[BlindSite]

30 seconds? I can never get used to the smell...just awful. I went to "The Downs" today, off-track betting, and the whole place reeked of smoke... i just cant stand it...It gets all over your clothes...eww and it just makes you or atleast me feel sick/nauseated...

Here's some advice, get some cement, sprinkle it on your cornflakes and harden up.

Ewww, its smelly it makes me sick, I have pigtails...

I can't stand the smell of greasy food and the smell of dark rum makes me want to heave, but I don't campaign to have those outlawed from pubs just to protect my dainty little nostrils.

[TH3]

Here's some advice, get some cement, sprinkle it on your cornflakes and harden up.

Ewww, its smelly it makes me sick, I have pigtails...

I can't stand the smell of greasy food and the smell of dark rum makes me want to heave, but I don't campaign to have those outlawed from pubs just to protect my dainty little nostrils.

way to lower yourself to personal insults.... good one... high class

[Tobzilla]

I don't know if anyone out there cares or not, but I just thought I'd say that my dad was diagnosed with lung cancer about one year ago. This January he had his right lung removed in a surgery where doctors gave him a 20% survival rate. I don't know how my dad survived that surgery but somehow he did and he's been recovering at home ever since. Now my dad always has to carry oxygen with him wherever he goes, he looses his breath even doing simple activities like walking up stairs, and (at least for the time being) he is out of a job. For Christs sake, he's already collecting social security because he can no longer work.

I'm not going to be a hypocrite and tell everyone not to smoke, because I have the occasional cigar. I'd just like to ask that you think about the damage to your health and the damage to your family you create when you smoke. It's not fun going through the kind of **** my family has gone through in the last year.

[steelersfan43]

How is it fair to make me walk out of an open air mall or beer garden to smoke just because you don't like the smell?

You could walk inside, you could turn your back, or walk 5m away.

If I don't like someone's perfume I don't stand near them, if I don't like their singing, I'll go inside to a sportsbar, what I won't do is impose my will on other people.

It takes about 7 minutes for someone to have a cigarette and the average person about 30 seconds to get used to a smell in the air. 30 second of you being uncomfortable because you choose to stand near a smoker is fair.

Anywhere outdoors should be legal to smoke.
Do you get the part where you are the one causing the problem? Your telling the majority of the people to deal with it because you have a disgusting addiction.

[M.O.T.H.]

Here's some advice, get some cement, sprinkle it on your cornflakes and harden up.

Ewww, its smelly it makes me sick, I have pigtails...

I can't stand the smell of greasy food and the smell of dark rum makes me want to heave, but I don't campaign to have those outlawed from pubs just to protect my dainty little nostrils.

It's disgusting... I dont want to breath it in and i dont want to have to walk around reeking of it all day... smoking is pointless. I dont get it but, w/e do what you want.

[BlindSite]

My point is, it shouldn't be illegal because people "don't like it" it shouldn't be illegal for being harmful, since its a choice for someone to be around it these days since its outlawed in clubs and inside most places. Not only that but there's yet to be empirical evidence to suggest that anyone other than Babies are at risk from second hand smoke.

Asking for something to be illegal because it makes you uncomfortable is undemocratic, its facist.

[TH3]

My point is, it shouldn't be illegal because people "don't like it" it shouldn't be illegal for being harmful, since its a choice for someone to be around it these days since its outlawed in clubs and inside most places. Not only that but there's yet to be empirical evidence to suggest that anyone other than Babies are at risk from second hand smoke.

Asking for something to be illegal because it makes you uncomfortable is undemocratic, its facist.

I am pretty sure that the majority agree it is at least somewhat bad for you....

[BlindSite]

Yes, but not worse than fatty food, alcohol or for that matter contact sport, but they're all legal.

[TH3]

Yes, but not worse than fatty food, alcohol or for that matter contact sport, but they're all legal.

you chose to play those and take that risk upon yourself....2nd hand smoke is something placed upon you against your will by others...

and putting others in danger after you consume alcohol is a crime(drunk driving)

[Caddy]

I think a lot of the hatred towards cigarette smoking comes from the harm it can do to others.

[BlindSite]

The risk is only placed upon you if you choose to stand there when someone's smoking and suck down their exhale, walking through someone's smoke as they're smoking isn't going to hurt you.

[Caddy]

The risk is only placed upon you if you choose to stand there when someone's smoking and suck down their exhale, walking through someone's smoke as they're smoking isn't going to hurt you.

What about if they choose to stand with you? Why should I or someone else have to move just because a smoker came and stood near me?

[BlindSite]

http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/pas-smok.htm

[BlindSite]

What about if they choose to stand with you? Why should I or someone else have to move just because a smoker came and stood near me?

Well if you're in australia, they wouldn't be doing it in doors so you shouldn't give a ****.

Unless you'd ask them to walk away if they were eating a smelly salami, cause its about as harmful when outdoors.

[TH3]

http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/pas-smok.htm

because that site has no agenda and isnt biased at all....

[Caddy]

http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/pas-smok.htm

Those articles are from 1998 :confused:

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Well, after seeing an older friend really struggle through quiting and especially after have cigarette smoke set off the Geiger counter in my hand, I've managed to keep smoking cigarettes from my strict regimen of harmful substances.

I do smoke shisha every once in a while as San Francisco is littered with hookah bars.

[Caddy]

Well, after seeing an older friend really struggle through quiting and especially after have cigarette smoke set off the Geiger counter in my hand, I've managed to keep smoking cigarettes from my strict regimen of harmful substances.

I do smoke shisha every once in a while as San Francisco is littered with hookah bars.

Not a comforting thought

[Caddy]

Direct quote from the Canadian Cancer Council:

"Each year, more than 1000 non-smoking Canadians die from second-hand smoke."

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Not a comforting thought

It was a bit amazing. I didn't believe it would actually happen, but lo and behold...

People can say what they want about carcinogens, but many kinds of them have absolutely nothing to do with cancer. The real harmful **** is the partially radioactive material most cigarette companies put into their tobacco.

Also, that first article seems a bit misleading. THC, one of the active materials in marijuana, has a boiling point of 200 degrees Celsius. That in no way means that THC doesn't reach your system through marijuana smoke.

edit - As for the secondhand smoke thing, I'd love to see some legitimate studies on the subject give a definitive answer. All we have at the moment are legitimate studies that fail to provide a real answer and obviously biased studies that give obviously biased answers.

[diabsoule]

Car exhaust emits more chemicals into the air and is more harmful to human beings than second hand cigarette smoke. I agree, I don't like the smell of cigarettes and I used to smoke. Today will mark my 4th day of non-smoking and it's hard but I understand those that like to have a cig with their beer.

What people do in a pub is their own business. Restaurants, like fancy diners and other places along those lines, I understand non-smoking laws, but smoking should be legal at bars and in pubs.

[Moses]

How is it fair to make me walk out of an open air mall or beer garden to smoke just because you don't like the smell?

You could walk inside, you could turn your back, or walk 5m away.

If I don't like someone's perfume I don't stand near them, if I don't like their singing, I'll go inside to a sportsbar, what I won't do is impose my will on other people.

It takes about 7 minutes for someone to have a cigarette and the average person about 30 seconds to get used to a smell in the air. 30 second of you being uncomfortable because you choose to stand near a smoker is fair.

Anywhere outdoors should be legal to smoke.

How would you feel if you were walking down the street and somebody walked up to you and crammed a Big Mac down your throat? There is a difference between somebody standing outside eating a Big Mac and somebody standing outside eating a Big Mac and forcing you to have a bite.

I don't even care if people smoke outside since it rarely bothers me. That said, it makes sense that public areas should be smoke-free.

I think the main thing is that people have to respect each other. I'm friends with smokers who will make it a point not to exhale smoke at me, etc. when we're hanging out outside. As long as other people have the same respect, I'm fine with it.

[Vikes99ej]

I only smoke when I'm on fire. And I knew this thread was going nowhere.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

How would you feel if you were walking down the street and somebody walked up to you and crammed a Big Mac down your throat? There is a difference between somebody standing outside eating a Big Mac and somebody standing outside eating a Big Mac and forcing you to have a bite.

I don't even care if people smoke outside since it rarely bothers me. That said, it makes sense that public areas should be smoke-free.

I think the main thing is that people have to respect each other. I'm friends with smokers who will make it a point not to exhale smoke at me, etc. when we're hanging out outside. As long as other people have the same respect, I'm fine with it.

It makes sense that a business owner should have the right to decide whether or not to permit smoking in his establishment, whether it be a bar, restaurant, or whatever. It's a fine point, one that I brought up multiple times in this thread, and one that's been ignored multiple times. If you don't like that a restaurant permits smoking, don't go there. It's that simple. If business is lost because of smoking, or vise versa, a wise owner would make the appropriate changes himself. Nobody should be able force the owner of a restaurant to ban something that is not illegal if he doesn't want to do so.

[Moses]

It makes sense that a business owner should have the right to decide whether or not to permit smoking in his establishment, whether it be a bar, restaurant, or whatever. It's a fine point, one that I brought up multiple times in this thread, and one that's been ignored multiple times. If you don't like that a restaurant permits smoking, don't go there. It's that simple. If business is lost because of smoking, or vise versa, a wise owner would make the appropriate changes himself. Nobody should be able force the owner of a restaurant to ban something that is not illegal if he doesn't want to do so.

The point is that it is illegal to smoke in those places. It's justifiable because it is a public area. Is it illegal to be naked in private? Of course not. It is illegal to be naked in public areas because it affects others.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

The point is that it is illegal to smoke in those places. It's justifiable because it is a public area. Is it illegal to be naked in private? Of course not. It is illegal to be naked in public areas because it affects others.

It's still BS. Make a law that forces businesses to post signs outside the door warning people that it is a smoking area. If non-smokers don't like it, they can turn around and leave without being affected at all. Making a law that forces privately owned business to ban a completely legal act from happening in their establishment is borderline dictatorship by people who simply don't like smoking, or more likely, the big tobacco companies.

[bearsfan_51]

Direct quote from the Canadian Cancer Council:

"Each year, more than 1000 non-smoking Canadians die from second-hand smoke."
There's absolutely no way to substantiate that. Again, just scroll back one freaking page to see the real statistics. Smoking itself doesn't kill anyone. It lowers your immunity to certain cancers. It's the same with tanning or anything else that "causes" cancer. Nothing causes cancer. Hanging out in a radioactive tub of goo doesn't cause cancer. It just lowers your immunity. So they are basically taking every Canadian that got cancer and saying that they got cancer in part because of second-hand smoke, and then attributing their death to that. It's complete ********.

[Moses]

It's still BS. Make a law that forces businesses to post signs outside the door warning people that it is a smoking area. If non-smokers don't like it, they can turn around and leave without being affected at all. Making a law that forces privately owned business to ban a completely legal act from happening in their establishment is borderline dictatorship by people who simply don't like smoking, or more likely, the big tobacco companies.

It's a double-edged sword. If business owners allow smokers, you're turning away non-smokers. If business owners don't allow smokers, you're turning away smokers. The thing is, smoking is only legal in certain area. Just like alcohol. I can't go into a convience store with a beer cracked. Just like I can't go in with no pants on, or blasting music at an unacceptable level. There are a lot of laws that prohibit certain things in certain areas.

[bearsfan_51]

It's still BS. Make a law that forces businesses to post signs outside the door warning people that it is a smoking area. If non-smokers don't like it, they can turn around and leave without being affected at all. Making a law that forces privately owned business to ban a completely legal act from happening in their establishment is borderline dictatorship by people who simply don't like smoking, or more likely, the big tobacco companies.
So should bar owners be allowed to ban blacks from their establishment? If you say no, you're point is invalid.

Again, I'm a smoker, but legally there is no problem with the smoking ban.

[Moses]

There's absolutely no way to substantiate that. Again, just scroll back one freaking page to see the real statistics. Smoking itself doesn't kill anyone. It lowers your immunity to certain cancers. It's the same with tanning or anything else that "causes" cancer. Nothing causes cancer. Hanging out in a radioactive tub of goo doesn't cause cancer. It just lowers your immunity. So they are basically taking every Canadian that got cancer and saying that they got cancer in part because of second-hand smoke, and then attributing their death to that. It's complete ********.

Basically an argument of semantics. What truly does kill anybody? Do car accidents kill anybody? No, the fact that your brain stops functioning or heart stops pumping kills you.

[bearsfan_51]

Basically an argument of semantics. What truly does kill anybody? Do car accidents kill anybody? No, the fact that your brain stops functioning or heart stops pumping kills you.
No it's not like that at all. The car accident is a direct and immediate result of your death. That is verifiable. Not to mention that it is 100% of the cause of death (even if only indirectly). Nobody could say "well his brain might have stopped working even if he didn't hit that tree". But you can make a very strong case that lots of people get cancer regardless of access to second-hand smoke. The likelyhood of someone getting cancer from second hand smoke is still extrememly low, even if exposed to it every single day .

[Moses]

No it's not like that at all. The car accident is a direct and immediate result of your death. That is verifiable. Not to mention that it is 100% of the cause of death (even if only indirectly). Nobody could say "well his brain might have stopped working even if he didn't hit that tree". But you can make a very strong case that lots of people get cancer regardless of access to second-hand smoke. The likelyhood of someone getting cancer from second hand smoke is still extrememly low, even if exposed to it every single day .

Like I said, I haven't done enough research about second-hand smoke to really comment on it's effects. That said, I doubt there is even that much verifiable evidence because it's something that is almost impossible to study accurately.

What about AIDS though? Do people die from AIDS? No. They die from a sickness that is obtained because AIDS weakens their immune system. Do fat people die from eating too much food? Their arteries are clogged, they have heart problems. It can be safely assumed that being overweight was a big contributing factor to their death. I think the same can be assumed in most cancer cases when the people smoke or are consistently around second-hand smoke.

[JoeMontainya]

Thats life dude, I believe if you're happier with smoking than without, the risks can't be all that bad.

You'll live longer being stress free and happy.

Ask any youth that smokes ages 15-30 plus, and they are all happy with "smoking". Now wise up and ask the age range of 40-60 year olds who have lived with their decicion to smoke their entire lives and you will find that about 98% of them would be willing to start their lives over to get rid of the habbit and get their health back.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Ask any youth that smokes ages 15-30 plus, and they are all happy with "smoking". Now wise up and ask the age range of 40-60 year olds who have lived with their decicion to smoke their entire lives and you will find that about 98% of them would be willing to start their lives over to get rid of the habbit and get their health back.

Smoking doesn't make smokers happy. Not smoking makes smokers unhappy. There is a difference.

I plan on quitting soon, by the way.

[dabears10]

Car exhaust emits more chemicals into the air and is more harmful to human beings than second hand cigarette smoke. I agree, I don't like the smell of cigarettes and I used to smoke. Today will mark my 4th day of non-smoking and it's hard but I understand those that like to have a cig with their beer.

What people do in a pub is their own business. Restaurants, like fancy diners and other places along those lines, I understand non-smoking laws, but smoking should be legal at bars and in pubs.

Toxicologist Professor Simon Wolff stated; ‘There is no doubt that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer, but there is also no doubt that air pollution, particularly from diesel, is a contributory factor, so important that perhaps without air pollution we would see a much lower rate of lung cancer than we have. For example, in rural China, where people tend to smoke very heavily and where air pollution is much less, the differences in lung cancer rates between smokers and non-smokers is very small, and lung cancer rates are about one tenth of the lung cancer rates in industrialised countries.’

http://www.freedom2choose.co.uk/art1.php?id=32

January 5th 2007.

[dabears10]

The point is that it is illegal to smoke in those places. It's justifiable because it is a public area. Is it illegal to be naked in private? Of course not. It is illegal to be naked in public areas because it affects others.

No but it's not a public area. Hence why strip clubs can exist. If it is inside it is there property. You cannot get arrested for being naked in a bar. You are extremely confused on what is a public place, a privately owned business is not public.

[TH3]

No but it's not a public area. Hence why strip clubs can exist. If it is inside it is there property. You cannot get arrested for being naked in a bar. You are extremely confused on what is a public place, a privately owned business is not public.

actually you can't just open up a strip club you have to have the land zoned for that and you must also meet other requirements...

[Vikes99ej]

There's absolutely no way to substantiate that. Again, just scroll back one freaking page to see the real statistics. Smoking itself doesn't kill anyone. It lowers your immunity to certain cancers. It's the same with tanning or anything else that "causes" cancer. Nothing causes cancer. Hanging out in a radioactive tub of goo doesn't cause cancer. It just lowers your immunity. So they are basically taking every Canadian that got cancer and saying that they got cancer in part because of second-hand smoke, and then attributing their death to that. It's complete ********.

Allright. There's the second person I've seen saying they smoke.

[jkpigskin]

smokin is nasty IMO

[Moses]

No but it's not a public area. Hence why strip clubs can exist. If it is inside it is there property. You cannot get arrested for being naked in a bar. You are extremely confused on what is a public place, a privately owned business is not public.

That's simply false. Businesses are public places. That is how they are zoned.

[Addict]

Allright. There's the second person I've seen saying they smoke.

well this marks three. I started when I was... 16 I believe (I'm 20 now)... Started with Barclays, then moved on to Barclays City Red, when that ended, I switched to Gauloises, which is what I smoke right now. I smoke about... pack every day and a half.

[Shiver]

My grandmother died an excruciating death, at an early age, because she was hooked on cigarettes. I don't smoke, I have no desire to. Nor am I weak minded enough to start because its "cool," or whatever. I will say to those who do, it will catch up to you, and I urge you to think 'big picture' when it comes to your livelihood.

[Zim3031]

Alchohol should be illegal in bars and restaurants. There are far more deaths caused by such than are caused by involuntary inhalation of smoke in such establishments.

[cunningham06]

Alchohol should be illegal in bars and restaurants. There are far more deaths caused by such than are caused by involuntary inhalation of smoke in such establishments.

Party foul.

[Addict]

My grandmother died an excruciating death, at an early age, because she was hooked on cigarettes. I don't smoke, I have no desire to. Nor am I weak minded enough to start because its "cool," or whatever. I will say to those who do, it will catch up to you, and I urge you to think 'big picture' when it comes to your livelihood.

sorry about your Grandma... The following does not concern her AT ALL. (before you misunderstand)

but really the way I see it, old age is not something to look forward too, so really the enitre 'you'll die younger' isn't doing it for me. I enjoy a sigarette every now and again, I'll quit when I get kids.

[Addict]

Alchohol should be illegal in bars and restaurants. There are far more deaths caused by such than are caused by involuntary inhalation of smoke in such establishments.

I heard cars cause lots and lots of deaths too, let's make them illegal too. And... a lot of people drown... so let's make fluids illegal.
killjoy

[BlindSite]

My grandmother died an excruciating death, at an early age, because she was hooked on cigarettes. I don't smoke, I have no desire to. Nor am I weak minded enough to start because its "cool," or whatever. I will say to those who do, it will catch up to you, and I urge you to think 'big picture' when it comes to your livelihood.

Its got nothing to do with weakness. Its a choice, so don't transfer your garbage on to other people. Sorry for your loss.

[Hurricane Ditka]

I heard cars cause lots and lots of deaths too, let's make them illegal too. And... a lot of people drown... so let's make fluids illegal.
killjoyMy private studies conclude that the number one cause of death is living. Because living seems to have a 100% mortality rate, it should be illegal.

[Xonraider]

Its got nothing to do with weakness. Its a choice, so don't transfer your garbage on to other people. Sorry for your loss.

Maybe it has nothing to do with weakness in your case (if you do smoke) or somebody else's but I know people who smoke and they began because they wanted to hang out with X people or date X girl or impress, or look more mature.

[bearsfan_51]

Maybe it has nothing to do with weakness in your case (if you do smoke) or somebody else's but I know people who smoke and they began because they wanted to hang out with X people or date X girl or impress, or look more mature.
That's pretty ******* lame.

I should note that I don't smoke that much. I smoke when I drink, this maybe amounts to 6-10 cigs a week (or a pack every two-three weeks for you math majors out there). This is a pretty insignificant amount but I figured it was worth noting for the sake of disgression.

[Hurricane Ditka]

Maybe it has nothing to do with weakness in your case (if you do smoke) or somebody else's but I know people who smoke and they began because they wanted to hang out with X people or date X girl or impress, or look more mature.
Or because they enjoy them. But in America today, anything that makes you feel good will have support groups rallying against it.

[someone447]

So should bar owners be allowed to ban blacks from their establishment? If you say no, you're point is invalid.

Again, I'm a smoker, but legally there is no problem with the smoking ban.

Yes, and I would choose not to frequent those establishments. A privately owned business should be able to do whatever they want. The market will determine what they do, or do not do.

[someone447]

Maybe it has nothing to do with weakness in your case (if you do smoke) or somebody else's but I know people who smoke and they began because they wanted to hang out with X people or date X girl or impress, or look more mature.

That isn't weakness, that is stupidity. Which I guess is a weakness, just not what you were getting at.

[kalbears13]

I'm never gonna smoke because I don't want to be breathing out of a hole in my throat like that woman on TV.

[BlindSite]

That isn't weakness, that is stupidity. Which I guess is a weakness, just not what you were getting at.

How old are you out of curiosity?

Oh and its no more stupid than speeding, using marijuana, any narcotics, drinking alcohol, driving a car or eating fast food.

[Moses]

How old are you out of curiosity?

Oh and its no more stupid than speeding, using marijuana, any narcotics, drinking alcohol, driving a car or eating fast food.

That's arguable. Smoking is likely worse for you than using marijuana, drinking alcohol, or eating fast food.

[bearsfan_51]

Yes, and I would choose not to frequent those establishments. A privately owned business should be able to do whatever they want. The market will determine what they do, or do not do.
You're insane. Sorry..but anyone that argues there should be no regulations on business is insane. A plantation is a privately owned business. Should we bring back slavery too?

[Hurricane Ditka]

How old are you out of curiosity?

Oh and its no more stupid than speeding, using marijuana, any narcotics, drinking alcohol, driving a car or eating fast food.Well smoking has more adverse effects on your health than most of those, it's effects are much worse than adverse health effects marijuana and alcohol. Too be fair, I'm a little of column's a, b and c.

[Moses]

not necessarily true. smoking cigarettes made without additives (the chemical crap) is not any worse for your lungs (not talking heart disease) than smoking any other substance on earth. carbon monoxide is a carcinogen no matter what substance produces it. it's difficult to imagine many legal things that are more lethal than alcohol when used improperly. and i'm not sure that you can argue that colon cancer is necessarily better than lung cancer (as colon cancer, last i saw, has a higher mortality rate).

Like I said, the argument can be made either way. It's really a massively complex situation that is well beyond the scope of this forum.

Also, it should be noted that the average person smokes average cigarrettes (the ones that are terrible for you). There have been various studies linking smoking to cancer but researchers have had a much harder time linking marijuana-use to cancer. In fact, the most recent and biggest study ever conducted revealed that marijuana was not linked to cancer at all. The issue is still uncertain, but I think it's fair to say that from a health perspective cigarettes are worse for you than marijuana.

Alcohol can actually be good for you if used properly. Everybody knows that a glass of wine a day can help with your heart. Obviously there is a much bigger risk of overusage (as it's impossible to overdose on either cigarettes or marijuana) but I think most people are responsible enough when drinking to prevent permanent damage. The number of deaths caused from smoking outweigh the number of deaths from drinking by a large margin even though way more people drink than smoke.

Fast food is a tough one because it's way too variable. Eating McDonald's a few times a week is a lot different than eating it twice a day. I guess the same can be said about smoking a pack of cigarettes every two weeks and smoking a pack a day.

[Hurricane Ditka]

that's absolutely ridiculous.Yes it is. As is a good deal of this thread, so it fits right it in. You'll feel the adverse effects of cigarettes before you feel them with alcohol. In end neither is a pretty way to die, but there aren't many pretty ways to die. Unless you die in a dress.

[Zim3031]

You're insane. Sorry..but anyone that argues there should be no regulations on business is insane. A plantation is a privately owned business. Should we bring back slavery too?
Whose personal rights are being hampered by allowing restaurants to decide whether or not to permit an otherwise lawful exercise?

[Moses]

Whose personal rights are being hampered by allowing restaurants to decide whether or not to permit an otherwise lawful exercise?

Should people be allowed to walk around naked in restaurants? No, because it effects other people and doesn't allow them to enjoy the service provided at that location.

[Hurricane Ditka]

Like I said, the argument can be made either way. It's really a massively complex situation that is well beyond the scope of this forum.

Also, it should be noted that the average person smokes average cigarrettes (the ones that are terrible for you). There have been various studies linking smoking to cancer but researchers have had a much harder time linking marijuana-use to cancer. In fact, the most recent and biggest study ever conducted revealed that marijuana was not linked to cancer at all. The issue is still uncertain, but I think it's fair to say that from a health perspective cigarettes are worse for you than marijuana.

Another point on that tangent is a pack of cigarette is what like an ounce of tobacco? So a moderate smoker, let's say a pack a day, is smoking considerably more than a moderate marijuana smoker, who'll go through an ounce in maybe a couple weeks.

[bearsfan_51]

Whose personal rights are being hampered by allowing restaurants to decide whether or not to permit an otherwise lawful exercise?

I'm fine with that (although this is a state issue and is voted upon Democratically so I don't buy the Libertarian argument either). Saying that establishments should be legally protected to discriminate based on race is absurd.

[Moses]

Another point on that tangent is a pack of cigarette is what like an ounce of tobacco? So a moderate smoker, let's say a pack a day, is smoking considerably more than a moderate marijuana smoker, who'll go through an ounce in maybe a couple weeks.

Good point. Plus, we all know about vaporizers and how they can further reduce the chance of cancer from marijuana.

[Zim3031]

Should people be allowed to walk around naked in restaurants? No, because it effects other people and doesn't allow them to enjoy the service provided at that location.
Would you want to go to a restaurant that allows people to walk around without clothes? What sane restaurant would allow such? (Strip clubs pending of course ;) ) The market decides that something like that is just plain ridiculous, thus it simply does not exist, and any business hoping to make a dime wouldn't allow it.

[Moses]

Would you want to go to a restaurant that allows people to walk around without clothes? What sane restaurant would allow such? (Strip clubs pending of course ;) ) The market decides that something like that is just plain ridiculous, thus it simply does not exist, and any business hoping to make a dime wouldn't allow it.

Would I want to go to a restaurant that allows people to blow smoke in my face? No. It's the same thing. Why should a certain group of people be told that they can't go to any bars/restaurants without being in the presence of second-hand smoke.

[Zim3031]

Would I want to go to a restaurant that allows people to blow smoke in my face?
Then why not go to a restaurant that clearly defines smoking and non-smoking zones or prohibits smoking all altogether? If there truly is such a demand to enjoy a restaurant without having to face smoke, then such establishments will be created in the market.

[Phrost]

Just for a bump.
Those that smoke are a joke.

[Hurricane Ditka]

that's certainly a good point, but then, there's a reason i waited to disagree with people i find relatively sane.

and my liver strongly disagrees with the sentence right after the bolded part after this weekend, but that's an entirely different conversation.
Well I realize I was a little over zealous in my agreement with Moses. But most of this thread is garbage, it's a cigarette, a small 2 inch cylinder of tobacco, paper and cotton, it's not something worth throwing a hissy fit over.

[Hurricane Ditka]

absolutely. and i voted to ban smoking in denver restaurants. i've just never understood why it was a big deal to go outside for 30 seconds (please someone, tell me about how bad the weather can be so i can laugh you off the board).Hell, during the Summer I'd rather smoke outside than inside, the weather is so nice now.

[Creek]

5 Reasons Cigarette Are Bad And Made by Bad People Who Sell Them To Badder People:

5.) Cigarettes are totally icksville.
4.) Did you guys know that Big Tobacco supports terrorism amd puppy-kicking? Because they do.
3.) My mom shot my dad with a cigarette 3 times in the back.
2.) Ever wonder what's causing all this global warming? People. You know what people do? You guessed it-- smoke.
1.) Second-hand chewing. That's right, it's real. Everyone run.

[Hurricane Ditka]

5 Reasons Cigarette Are Bad And Made by Bad People Who Sell Them To Badder People:

5.) Cigarettes are totally icksville.
4.) Did you guys know that Big Tobacco supports terrorism amd puppy-kicking? Because they do.
3.) My mom shot my dad with a cigarette 3 times in the back.
2.) Ever wonder what's causing all this global warming? People. You know what people do? You guessed it-- smoke.
1.) Second-hand chewing. That's right, it's real. Everyone run.Cigarettes killed my father and raped your mother.

[BlindSite]

Well smoking has more adverse effects on your health than most of those, it's effects are much worse than adverse health effects marijuana and alcohol. Too be fair, I'm a little of column's a, b and c.

Not really true. See if you equate it to one joint for example is as bad as one cigarette and one beer is as bad as one cigarette you'd be close to the money.

Some people smoke in excess of 20 cigarettes a day, where as very rarely will someone drink that much or smoke that much weed every day.

If they did they'd suffer far worse health effects than smokers.

[Moses]

Not really true. See if you equate it to one joint for example is as bad as one cigarette and one beer is as bad as one cigarette you'd be close to the money.

Some people smoke in excess of 20 cigarettes a day, where as very rarely will someone drink that much or smoke that much weed every day.

If they did they'd suffer far worse health effects than smokers.

That's a pretty flawed argument. You said yourself, nobody smokes 20 joints or drinks 20 beers, so why is it even in the discussion?

[Hurricane Ditka]

Not really true. See if you equate it to one joint for example is as bad as one cigarette and one beer is as bad as one cigarette you'd be close to the money.

Some people smoke in excess of 20 cigarettes a day, where as very rarely will someone drink that much or smoke that much weed every day.

If they did they'd suffer far worse health effects than smokers.Like I said, theres about an once of tobacco in a pack, no one is going to smoke an ounce of marijuana a day. That's not going to happen. If someone drank the equivalent they'd destroy their liver, and it's nigh impossible to smoke that pot, you'd fall asleep well before that.

[Shiver]

Its got nothing to do with weakness.

Getting hooked on cigarettes solely due to peer pressure is weakness.

Its a choice, so don't transfer your garbage on to other people.

A little insecure aren't you?

Sorry for your loss.

Said sarcastically, and insensitively, if I actually got to know my grandmother I would take extreme offense to that statement.

[BlindSite]

Take offense all you like, it just means you misinterpreted what I said, since i meant it genuinely.

Though, you misinterpreting my post seems to be a theme. Since you missed what I had to say...

It wasn't weakness and it wasn't peer pressure that lead to my smoking. Don't act like you know everybody.

[sweetness34]

Take offense all you like, it just means you misinterpreted what I said, since i meant it genuinely.

Though, you misinterpreting my post seems to be a theme. Since you missed what I had to say...

It wasn't weakness and it wasn't peer pressure that lead to my smoking. Don't act like you know everybody.

May I ask why you started smoking then?

[BlindSite]

When I was at schoolies week, which is basically a party long week at the surfers paradise I started smoking a couple when I was drinking. No one pressured me to, I'd had the odd cigarette around the place and decided I wanted to have a few with drinks.

That turned into one after a long day to help me relax with a cold beer, which turned into a couple through the day, like after meals and stuff like that. Which is pretty much what it is now.

I'm not a hardcore pack a day smoker, I smoke a lot when I drink and I might have about 5 or 6 at most through the day. Which equates to about 2 maybe 3 packs a week.

[bearsfan_51]

Do you guys really think everyone that smokes does so out of peer pressure? Would that then apply to every life choice that people make? I really am shocked at how well the anti-smoking barage has shaped the discourse on smoking amongst young people. People my age and my friends (ie:6-7 years older) don't talk like this at all.

[sweetness34]

Do you guys really think everyone that smokes does so out of peer pressure? Would that then apply to every life choice that people make? I really am shocked at how well the anti-smoking barage has shaped the discourse on smoking amongst young people. People my age and my friends (ie:6-7 years older) don't talk like this at all.

No I don't, some people smoke because they like the taste, others do because it calms them down, and stuff like that. I also know people that started out of curiosity and just haven't been able to quit.

I've just always found cigarettes as disgusting. I've tried one before and I immediately threw it away. It tasted disgusting. That and I've 2 family members die early from lung cancer due to smoking.

[Moses]

Do you guys really think everyone that smokes does so out of peer pressure? Would that then apply to every life choice that people make? I really am shocked at how well the anti-smoking barage has shaped the discourse on smoking amongst young people. People my age and my friends (ie:6-7 years older) don't talk like this at all.

I don't know that it's peer pressure but I don't know anybody that started smoking completely on their own. The people that I know were offered a cigarette, accepted it, and then eventually started buying their own packs. I've never heard of anybody wake up one morning and decide to go to the store for a pack of smokes. That said, do most people smoke pot or drink the first time before somebody offers them a hit or a drink?

[diabsoule]

No offense here but both sides won't be budged on the for smoking and anit-smoking bandwagons. Let's agree to disagree and move on. Yes, cigarette smoke is icky and it is true that second hand smoke is blown out of proportion now let's move on. Which is better Fragglerock or Smurfs?

[VoteLynnSwan]

Smurfs are better...

I don't smoke, never have smoked, and never will smoke, but i don't give a **** what other people do. If that's what makes them happy then fine... i just hate walking behind smokers on a sidewalk.

[awfullyquiet]

don't act like wisconsin doesn't exist

haha.
oh the joys.

okay. so i smoke.
why? because i love ******* tobacco. i don't smoke because i'm stressed.
i smoke because it's my right. i think it's delicious. i smoke camel turkish royals and silvers (the former during winter and the latter during spring)... and occasionally i roll some bali shag. smoke some cigars... so forth and so on.

now.
when it comes to dining locations and bars, i'm all for having a separation of smoking and non... if and only if there's sufficient air-flow in smoking areas to disperse smoke.

at my formerly local denny's... they had six (yes six) air filtration ventilators over smoking (actually four, and two on the next nearest section). and those on the other side said, hey, i can't smell the smokers. because smoking in open air places has ventillation that won't cause ill effects, which is why they can't ban smoking in public.

also to note. cigarette smoking often is associated with a non-healthy lifestyle which can lead to other health problems that are aggrivated by carcinogens in smoking. i don't think many people really take into account all the obese smokers who don't get any exercise.

[locseti]

i smoke camel turkish royals and silvers

Wow those cigarettes are terrible, the only time I smoke em is when they're 2 for 1. I smoke Marlboro 27's

[awfullyquiet]

to each their own. i got sick of 27's after about three months.

[BlindSite]

Malboros were good till I found better.

[Addict]

at my formerly local denny's... they had six (yes six) air filtration ventilators over smoking (actually four, and two on the next nearest section). and those on the other side said, hey, i can't smell the smokers. because smoking in open air places has ventillation that won't cause ill effects, which is why they can't ban smoking in public.


Weirdest thing though, they banned smoking in the Paris Nord train station. Why that's weird is that the station is completely open at one side (seriously, there's only three walls, there's a huge gap at the side where the trains ride)... can't ask for a better ventilated place, yet smoking is prohibited (though the french don't care and do it anyways).

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

That isn't weakness, that is stupidity. Which I guess is a weakness, just not what you were getting at.

Aren't you the same guy who talks about hooking up with random chicks without a condom? Yeah, you've got room to talk about stupidity...

[M1Koter]

I got a tobacco pipe that I use very rarely, I got it as kind of a joke for my birthday but it's super cheap to smoke tobacco pipes, a nice sized bag is like frickin 4 bucks, and that'll last quite a while.

[BigDawg819]

I have smoked in the past and present but I chose to quit and so far am 5 days with a cigarette and feel great! For the record I chose to smoke on my own, yes people around me did but I smoked for myself and not others. Besides it was the easiest way to get a break in a retail store during Christmas time.....

[BigDawg819]

Here's an interesting view on quitting smoking:

JUST DO IT! :D

[EdReedUnstoppable]

I am a smoker off and on for about 3 years now, Marlboro 27's are my personal favorite, but I also enjoy these new Marlboror Smooth things quite refreshing.

[BigDawg819]

I am a smoker off and on for about 3 years now, Marlboro 27's are my personal favorite, but I also enjoy these new Marlboror Smooth things quite refreshing.

If its not a Menthol, then its not worth smoking.

[jkpigskin]

Smurfs are better...

I don't smoke, never have smoked, and never will smoke, but i don't give a **** what other people do. If that's what makes them happy then fine... i just hate walking behind smokers on a sidewalk.

i agreee with this statement, including the smurf comment :D

[EdReedUnstoppable]

If its not a Menthol, then its not worth smoking.

The Smooths are sorta menthol-ish with almost a spearmint flavor to them.

[BigDawg819]

The Smooths are sorta menthol-ish with almost a spearmint flavor to them.

Then light up and enjoy! :D

[Shiver]

It wasn't weakness and it wasn't peer pressure that lead to my smoking. Don't act like you know everybody.

Where do you get that I was talking specifically about you? I know a few people who started smoking simply because it was the 'cool' thing to do. I said that I wasn't weak enough to do something I didn't want to do, simply due to other people's influence. My post had nothing to do with you, or your choice.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

If its not a Menthol, then its not worth smoking.

I've been smoking menthols for about 2 years now, and quite honestly I can't even tell they're menthols anymore.

[BigDawg819]

I've been smoking menthols for about 2 years now, and quite honestly I can't even tell they're menthols anymore.

Go light up a Marlboro Red and tell me you can't tell the difference?

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Go light up a Marlboro Red and tell me you can't tell the difference?

Oh I could tell the difference between a menthol and a regular cigarette, I just can't feel the coolness of the menthol anymore.

[BigDawg819]

Oh I could tell the difference between a menthol and a regular cigarette, I just can't feel the coolness of the menthol anymore.

Exactly what kind of Menthols are you smoking?

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Exactly what kind of Menthols are you smoking?

I started out with Marlboro Menthol Lights, then switched to Milds, and now I'm smoking Smooths.

I suppose your throat kind of gets "immune" to the cool feeling after you've smoked menthols nonstop for a while. I know a few people who alternate between like 2 boxes of regulars to 1 box of menthols to avoid this.

[BigDawg819]

I started out with Marlboro Menthol Lights, then switched to Milds, and now I'm smoking Smooths.

I suppose your throat kind of gets "immune" to the cool feeling after you've smoked menthols nonstop for a while. I know a few people who alternate between like 2 boxes of regulars to 1 box of menthols to avoid this.

Well then you never smoked straight up Menthols then, but you are also talking with a former pack a day of Newports smoker here so I guess that will do it.

[terribletowel39]

i don't smoke so much anymore but when i did it was Newport Shorts. thats the strongest menthol i've ever had except like cloved menthols. but like SaintsFan said, after a long time smoking them, I couldn't really feel the menthol in the cig because your throat gets used to that cool feelings. i just smoke when i a drink now but its Marlboro Smooths manly but occasionally i will go back to the Ports.

[rchrd]

Menthols are wonderful.

[yourfavestoner]

I only like Menthols when I'm on a yakamundo/thizzlamic level.

[Hurricane Ditka]

Smooths are delicious, best menthols bar none.

[awfullyquiet]

i also heard they're taking smooths off the market.
just a rumor from the walgreens man.

which is insane because they're delicious
and i'm a non-menthol smoker

[Hurricane Ditka]

i also heard they're taking smooths off the market.
just a rumor from the walgreens man.

which is insane because they're delicious
and i'm a non-menthol smoker
Why would they do a thing like that?

[locseti]

I only like Menthols when I'm on a yakamundo/thizzlamic level.

Thats a fact brother, when your on the level its nice to taste the flavor - some people go as far as to rub vicks vapo rub under their nose. But other than that, I hate menthols.

[BlindSite]

Where do you get that I was talking specifically about you? I know a few people who started smoking simply because it was the 'cool' thing to do. I said that I wasn't weak enough to do something I didn't want to do, simply due to other people's influence. My post had nothing to do with you, or your choice.

You generalised the habit, therefore you generalised the people. Therefore you made the comment about me, just admit wrong and move on.

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Smooths kind of, kind of, just kind of taste like an Andies. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger.

[Hurricane Ditka]

Smooths kind of, kind of, just kind of taste like an Andies. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger.
What? Do you mean?

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

What? Do you mean?

http://www.packagingdigest.com/articles/200408/images/andes.gif

[Hurricane Ditka]

Is that gum or something?

[TPFKA#1SaintsFan]

Is that gum or something?

No... its a chocolate mint. You've never had an Andes?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andes_Chocolate_Mint

[Hurricane Ditka]

No... its a chocolate mint. You've never had an Andes?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andes_Chocolate_MintNope. I've had Marb Smooths though, and there delicious,

[Shiver]

You generalised the habit, therefore you generalised the people. Therefore you made the comment about me, just admit wrong and move on.

Not a chance. I was talking about my situation, with not a single specific person in mind. You really think peer pressure isn't a reason a lot of people start smoking? Maybe not in your case, but in general?

[diabsoule]

Not a chance. I was talking about my situation, with not a single specific person in mind. You really think peer pressure isn't a reason a lot of people start smoking? Maybe not in your case, but in general?

I started smoking because I hung out with a bunch of smokers. I used to go over to my friends apartment and we'd just sit around drinking and watching t.v. They never tried to force smoking on me and I didn't pick it up to try and fit in. I just picked up a cigarette one day to see what it was all about. I then moved to smoking only when drinking, then smoking all the time. It was just a progression. I was assimilated.

[Shiver]

Even if most people are not influenced by peer pressure. If one were to start smoking, because of peer pressure, would that be a weakness?

[someone447]

Not a chance. I was talking about my situation, with not a single specific person in mind. You really think peer pressure isn't a reason a lot of people start smoking? Maybe not in your case, but in general?

I wouldn't consider that weakness, just stupidity. And like I said before stupidity is a weakness, but it isn't the way you are talking about.

[terribletowel39]

Smooths kind of, kind of, just kind of taste like an Andies. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger.
totally agree with you dude. the first time i opened a box i was like "OOOOooooOOOO chocolate mints!!"

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Even if most people are not influenced by peer pressure. If one were to start smoking, because of peer pressure, would that be a weakness?

And if one stopped smoking because it has become a social stigma, would that be weakness?

People are obviously going to start smoking or at least consider doing so if they see other people enjoying it, that is a natural psychological reaction.

[Shiver]

And if one stopped smoking because it has become a social stigma, would that be weakness?

People are obviously going to start smoking or at least consider doing so if they see other people enjoying it, that is a natural psychological reaction.

There is a massive difference between quiting a damaging habit and starting aforementioned habit.

[someone447]

There is a massive difference between quiting a damaging habit and starting aforementioned habit.

But the principle remains the same. Doing anything because of peer pressure is stupid. Not being weak, just being a complete dumbass.

[Green Bay Scat]

I only smoke cigars, and only when its a good time.