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49ersfan_87
05-30-2007, 07:00 PM
We all talk about improved teams...but which teams do you think are worse off from last year?

I think the titans are a candidate. Losing top CB, RB, and two top WR from the roster could hurt. But well see how brandon jones, david givens, and paul williams are as part of the titans WR core.

Phrost
05-30-2007, 07:01 PM
Buffalo.....

M.O.T.H.
05-30-2007, 07:03 PM
Packers RB situation is gonna be interesting.

Chargers ILB's.

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:04 PM
Titans, Chiefs, Bills, Seahawks, Eagles, depending on the Briggs situation Bears.

Pit Bull #53
05-30-2007, 07:05 PM
We'll (Titans) definately be one of the top teams listed on this, as well we should be with the losses on the roster, and being dependant on so many young guys to step up in their place.

Thankfully this is just "on paper" and they still have to play the games.

ricky bobby
05-30-2007, 07:06 PM
Falcons, Bills and Cheifs come to mind.

Shiver
05-30-2007, 07:08 PM
Titans, Packers and Giants are the three teams that stick out the most.

diabsoule
05-30-2007, 07:14 PM
Titans, Bills, Green Bay's running game, Chiefs, Giants, possibly Bears, and Colts.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-30-2007, 07:15 PM
Chargers.They have Norv Turner as HC.

ricky bobby
05-30-2007, 07:16 PM
Titans, Bills, Green Bay's running game, Chiefs, Giants, possibly Bears, and Colts.
I disagree, I think the Giants will do very well this year.

Shiver
05-30-2007, 07:16 PM
I disagree, I think the Giants will do very well this year.

And I think the Giants will have a top-10 pick.

ricky bobby
05-30-2007, 07:18 PM
And I think the Giants will have a top-10 pick.
I disagree, I think the Giants will win the superbowl. :)

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:19 PM
Yeah I forgot Giants and Falcons.

M.O.T.H.
05-30-2007, 07:19 PM
I wouldnt say the Falcons... they did bring in Horn, Anderson, and Mughelli.
If they are worse off, it's not by much...

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:19 PM
I disagree, I think the Giants will do very well this year.
Based on what exactly?

bored of education
05-30-2007, 07:21 PM
Chiefs defense improved light years with the addition of Napoleon Harris, Donnie Edwards, Boone, Tyler, McBride and having Page and Pollard at safeties will alleviate the pressure on the CBs in the T2 system.

TitleTown088
05-30-2007, 07:22 PM
Packers worse off? Just wait until you all see Brandon Jackson ad James Jones in action. ;)

Shiver
05-30-2007, 07:22 PM
I wouldnt say the Falcons... they did bring in Horn, Anderson, and Mughelli.
If they are worse off it's not by much...

The only way Atlanta is worse off is if Michael Vick incurs the wrath of Roger Goodell prior to the season. That means he would have to be indicted, tried and convicted prior to the season. Obviously that is unlikely. Vick will be punished in '08, if at all.

TitleTown088
05-30-2007, 07:23 PM
Based on what exactly?

Based on the fact they are his favorite team? I think so.

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:24 PM
Chiefs defense improved light years with the addition of Napoleon Harris, Donnie Edwards, Boone, Tyler, McBride and having Page and Pollard at safeties will alleviate the pressure on the CBs in the T2 system.

Donnie Edwards is about the only player of real note there and he's way past his prime.

Alphonso Boone...umm......

I know the Chiefs defense didn't have much to improve on but still....the losses on the offensive line easily offset what has been "gained" on defense.

ricky bobby
05-30-2007, 07:25 PM
Based on what exactly?
Last year we made the playoffs with tons of injuries on both sides of the ball. We showed what we can do during the begining of the year, we were just bitten by the injury bug later on. Toomer, Arrington, Osi, Strahan, Petitgout, Tuck, the list goes on and on. Eli will have more options this year in Steve Smith and possibly Sinorice Moss if he breaks out. I know we lost Tiki, but I have tons of faith in Brandon Jacobs. Our running game shouldn't miss a beat IMO. Defense, has more depth, more youth and we added an immediate starter in Aaron Ross at CB, which was a major weak point last year. Our roster has only improved, I can't see how we will regress.

bored of education
05-30-2007, 07:26 PM
With the addition of a running back in the draft, a healthy Bennett would help take about 70-100 carries from Larry. Huard or Croyle learning the system and being better game managers and not making mistakes with a line that was in more trouble last year than going into this year proves that the pass game is not of utmost importance. Gonzo, Kennison, Bowe, Page, Hannon, Parker really not a formidable crew of options for a qb but still Kennison and Gnoz produce.

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:27 PM
The only way Atlanta is worse off is if Michael Vick incurs the wrath of Roger Goodell prior to the season. That means he would have to be indicted, tried and convicted prior to the season. Obviously that is unlikely. Vick will be punished in '08, if at all.
-Change in coaching staff to what will likely be a complex offense and a gradual overhaul in personel, particularly on the offensive line.

-General bad vibe around the team at the moment. Even if Vick is not immediately charged this is a huge distraction for him and the team. It's not like the Bengals losing Chris Henry. The Falcons are Mike Vick.

-Mediocre drafting and personel moves the last few years. Haven't done a great job of stocking the team with talent.

bored of education
05-30-2007, 07:29 PM
Donnie Edwards is about the only player of real note there and he's way past his prime.

Alphonso Boone...umm......

I know the Chiefs defense didn't have much to improve on but still....the losses on the offensive line easily offset what has been "gained" on defense.

Upgrading the d-line with 3 new players getting rid of 2 TERRIBLE players, gettign a tampa 2 style MLB and an OLB that had over 100 tackles last year are HUGE upgrades.

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:31 PM
Upgrading the d-line with 3 new players getting rid of 2 TERRIBLE players, gettign a tampa 2 style MLB and an OLB that had over 100 tackles last year are HUGE upgrades.
Not really. But keep telling yourself that if you want.

Man I love the offseason. Every move made is just one step closer to the Superbowl. Where's a rolly-eye face when you need one?

M.O.T.H.
05-30-2007, 07:31 PM
Last year we made the playoffs with tons of injuries on both sides of the ball. We showed what we can do during the begining of the year, we were just bitten by the injury bug later on. Toomer, Arrington, Osi, Strahan, Petitgout, Tuck, the list goes on and on. Eli will have more options this year in Steve Smith and possibly Sinorice Moss if he breaks out. I know we lost Tiki, but I have tons of faith in Brandon Jacobs. Our running game shouldn't miss a beat IMO. Defense, has more depth, more youth and we added an immediate starter in Aaron Ross at CB, which was a major weak point last year. Our roster has only improved, I can't see how we will regress.

I cant see how your roster has only improved...losing your star Rb and starting LT is devastating.

Shiver
05-30-2007, 07:31 PM
-Change in coaching staff to what will likely be a complex offense and a gradual overhaul in personel, particularly on the offensive line.

There really isn't an overhaul on the O-Line. In fact, four of the starters all were more successful in traditional O-Line schemes. The only change is the addition of Justin Blalock, which is a massive upgrade over Matt Lehr, in any scheme.

-General bad vibe around the team at the moment. Even if Vick is not immediately charged this is a huge distraction for him and the team. It's not like the Bengals losing Chris Henry. The Falcons are Mike Vick.

Granted.

-Mediocre drafting and personel moves the last few years. Haven't done a great job of stocking the team with talent.

In regards to drafting I think McKay has been solid. About half of the starters were drafted by McKay. Free Agency and trades on the other hand haven't been good. Though injuries to Hartwell and Abraham play into that.

bored of education
05-30-2007, 07:32 PM
I'm not saying they're Super Bowl bound but to say the defense hasn't vastly improved personel wise is hypocrisy.

Shiver
05-30-2007, 07:34 PM
I'm not saying they're Super Bowl bound but to say the defense hasn't vastly improved personel wise is hypocrisy.

Do you even know what that word means?

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 07:35 PM
I'm not saying they're Super Bowl bound but to say the defense hasn't vastly improved personel wise is hypocrisy.

Buy a dictionary.

bored of education
05-30-2007, 07:40 PM
Buy a dictionary.



hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s) KEY

NOUN:
pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
An act or instance of such falseness

reese
05-30-2007, 07:43 PM
the titans....losing travis henry was huge i thnk....now vince had no proven running back and no proven wr..not to mention he is not exactly proven either

Shiver
05-30-2007, 07:44 PM
Thank you for proving the point. He truly believes the Chiefs did not vastly improve. Thus hypocrisy is a poor choice of words.

bored of education
05-30-2007, 08:07 PM
But i truelly believe they did, so it was a fine word choice.

bearsfan_51
05-30-2007, 08:09 PM
No. I suggest that you stop being bored of education and educate yourself. If you honestly can't understand who the "you" is in that definition you've got problems.

scottyboy
05-30-2007, 08:14 PM
the giants arent expected to do well, and when that happens, they always seem to play well. Im not saying they're gonna be a huge contender but i do expect better than a top 10 pick... They have a pretty good team this year, adding by subtracting keys like Whitfield, Morton, Emmons and Tim Lewis. granted they have no tiki, but NOBODY knows what jacobs will do.

the NFL is so great b/c we can debate all offseason long over who looks good and who doesnt, but you never know how a certain key player will do or who'll get hurt...

yodabear
05-30-2007, 10:32 PM
Colts, u know why, they aren't going to repeat, so they are worse off.

JC the Savior
05-30-2007, 10:34 PM
Titans & Chiefs.

Sniper
05-30-2007, 10:39 PM
Titans, Chiefs, Bills, Seahawks, Eagles, depending on the Briggs situation Bears.

Why the Eagles?

Titans (Pac-Man, VY Madden cover boy etc...)
Giants (Sorry but Brandon Jacobs is no Tiki Barber, and breaking in a new LT isn't easy...and I don't think Manning can handle the added pressure)
Chiefs (411 carries...LJ will break down this year)

Jensen
05-30-2007, 10:40 PM
Titans, Chiefs, and Giants are the three that I thought of.

keylime_5
05-30-2007, 10:40 PM
Kansas City lost Shields, Knight, and probably Green too......but they'll be a better team this year with Harris, Edwards, Alfonso Boone, Tank Tyler, Dwayne Bowe, and Damion McIntosh at LT. Plus Damon Huard gave Kansas City better starts than Green last year anyway.

I say Tennessee, Buffalo, Green Bay, and the Giants all are worse off. The Giants are gonna stink this year, top 15 probably top 12 pick in 2008. Tennessee had the 19th pick last year because they got red hot down the stretch and a little lucky with Vince Young. Games are always close in the NFL, the Titans will probably be closer to how they were in 2005 than how they were in 06

Xenos
05-30-2007, 10:54 PM
Upgrading the d-line with 3 new players getting rid of 2 TERRIBLE players, gettign a tampa 2 style MLB and an OLB that had over 100 tackles last year are HUGE upgrades.
That OLB is great against the pass, but horrible against the run.

nobodyinparticular
05-30-2007, 10:58 PM
We all talk about improved teams...but which teams do you think are worse off from last year?

I think the titans are a candidate. Losing top CB, RB, and two top WR from the roster could hurt. But well see how brandon jones, david givens, and paul williams are as part of the titans WR core.

Paul Williams is one of the guys I was really high on this year, but I don't expect him to make an impact for at least a year or two. WRs tend to have a very steep learning curve entering the NFL and I think Paul has a steeper one than most. He's too raw.

LitoSheppard
05-30-2007, 11:00 PM
Titans, Chiefs, Bills, Seahawks, Eagles, depending on the Briggs situation Bears.

Eagles? wow..please explain.

niel89
05-30-2007, 11:12 PM
Not really. But keep telling yourself that if you want.

Man I love the offseason. Every move made is just one step closer to the Superbowl. Where's a rolly-eye face when you need one?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jkb528
05-31-2007, 01:33 AM
I dont really think that Buffalo is much worse off. Yes, they lost some starters, but they also did a good job of plugging holes via the draft, bringing in Lynch in place of McGahee, and Posluszny in place of Fletcher. They're going to be counting on some young players to step up and play larger roles this season, such as Keith Ellison (who played very well last season in place of an injured Spikes) in place of Takeo Spikes, and Ashton Youboty (who was highly touted before the '06 draft) in place of Nate Clements. They also improved the offensive line through free agency. So, the Bills definately got a lot younger, but I think they did a good job of not overpaying for aging veterans, and bringing in solid young talent to build around. Seems to me to be a "one step back, two steps forward" kind of situation.

eacantdraft
05-31-2007, 07:40 AM
Miami. Horrible draft. No QB. Lousy offensive line.

luckyjackaubrey
05-31-2007, 07:53 AM
The Colts will have the toughest time matching their end results of a year ago. Repeating is difficult enough, but that team lost a great deal of a defense that is shaky to begin with.

kmartin575
05-31-2007, 08:30 AM
Donnie Edwards is about the only player of real note there and he's way past his prime.

Alphonso Boone...umm......

I know the Chiefs defense didn't have much to improve on but still....the losses on the offensive line easily offset what has been "gained" on defense.

Does it really matter if Edwards is the only one to note? Plus, even if he is past his prime he still had 141 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 3 interceptions, and 2 forced fumbles last year. I will take that any day.

Napoleon Harris is a huge improvement at middle linebacker. Is he Urlacher? No. But he is a huge improvement over Kawika Mitchell who is horrible in the tampa 2.

Demarcus Tyler and Turk McBride are going to bring much needed depth and energy to our defensive line. Alphonso Boone isn't a star but he is quality depth.

And Page and Pollard are going to make a big difference. Jarrad Page is 220+ pounds yet he is quick enough to play cornerback in the tampa 2.

The losses on the offensive line do not offset the gains on defense. John Welbourn will fill in just fine for Will Shields who's play had declined the past two years. Shields gave up 6 sacks last year. Also, we upgraded at left tackle. Damion McIntosh isn't a flashy or great player but he is most certainly an upgrade over I-65 Jordan Black.

kmartin575
05-31-2007, 08:33 AM
Why the Eagles?

Titans (Pac-Man, VY Madden cover boy etc...)
Giants (Sorry but Brandon Jacobs is no Tiki Barber, and breaking in a new LT isn't easy...and I don't think Manning can handle the added pressure)
Chiefs (411 carries...LJ will break down this year)

I love it when people say LJ will break down.

How wrong you are.

Scar
05-31-2007, 08:37 AM
Titans and Packers: Key personnel lost, plus lousy drafting.
Atlanta: The Joey Harrington era would have the Falcons going to the dogs.

Addict
05-31-2007, 08:41 AM
I love it when people say LJ will break down.

How wrong you are.

there was this story on NFL.com a while back (before the draft) that showed that 400+ carries usually results in the back breaking down. I just can't find it right now, help anyone?

Anyways I think the titans are in trouble this year... Giants are in bad shape with their losses at RB and LT... And I'm not sure the Seahawks are in much better shape either, but that's just me speculating.

ricky bobby
05-31-2007, 08:56 AM
there was this story on NFL.com a while back (before the draft) that showed that 400+ carries usually results in the back breaking down. I just can't find it right now, help anyone?

Anyways I think the titans are in trouble this year... Giants are in bad shape with their losses at RB and LT... And I'm not sure the Seahawks are in much better shape either, but that's just me speculating.
I'll admit i'm a bit worried about our left side, but there have been rumors of us trading for Schaffer from Cleveland. Not much of an upgrade, but at least we'll get to keep Deihl at LG, a position he plays very well, and have a true LT. If we don't make that move, i'll be a bit worried. Guy Whimper has been splitting time with Deihl on the first team at LT. He is very young, very athletic but still a bit raw. Probably not much of a downgrade over Petitgout.

As for RB, i'm not really worried one bit. Brandon Jacobs at 6'4" 260 pounds with 4.4 speed will be a nightmare for defenses as a starter. Rueben Droughns, his backup, will help him with his blocking and running style. Our #3 RB will be Ahmad Bradshaw, who is being called the steal of the draft. He absolutely amazed everyone with his speed, and cutback ability so far. I know it's early, but we have plenty to be optimistic about at the RB position.

BufFan71
05-31-2007, 09:07 AM
u cant say the bills, we got a HB that will actually try, can catch, and hit the whole,
we signed Derrick Dockery, and Langston walker.
we got rid of Fletcher-baker b/c he doesnt fit our D, he doesnt attack the los got rid of spikes, who also is too slow and injury prone now..
and Clements....way overpaid...the only person id want back, but not for 80million.
We have Ashton youboty, a first round projection last year to replace clements

ncst8fan83
05-31-2007, 09:23 AM
4.4 speed? seriously? maybe 4.55 on a good day. he's a load at the goal line that's for sure, but add on 250-300 carries in a season and then get back to me.

ricky bobby
05-31-2007, 09:51 AM
4.4 speed? seriously? maybe 4.55 on a good day. he's a load at the goal line that's for sure, but add on 250-300 carries in a season and then get back to me.
He ran a 4.5 at a pre-draft workout, you're right (could have sworn I heard 4.4 before). He's fast for a guy his size nonetheless. I'm not really worried about 250-300 carries for a 260 pound guy. He'll get spelled by Bradshaw and Droughns, two decent backups. I'm not worried one bit.

Scar
05-31-2007, 09:57 AM
None of the Giants RBs are close to the receiver that Tiki was though. Eli looked shaky enough with that safety valve in place last season, he's going to need to take a huge step forward to keep the Giants from moving backward.

Iamcanadian
05-31-2007, 10:38 AM
Here's my list:

Miami - No QB, No Saban = 1st pick in the draft.

Green Bay - Without a 1000yd rusher to take the pressure off Favre, it is going to be a long season.

Kansas City - Defense will be improved but offensive line is weaker, QB is a huge question mark and WR's are nothing special.

Oakland - Rookie QB's rarely are good their 1st season, Kiffin is a huge question mark = a write-off season.

Detroit - Kitna will lead a very strong offense but ah those interceptions and turnovers, the defense will be the worst in the NFL.

Pittsburgh Steelers - are switching to a 4-3 defense but really lack the personal to make it work next season.

Baltimore Ravens - McNair hasn't been healthy 2 seasons in a row for a long time, age and injuries could really send this team into a tailspin.

San Diego Chargers - Team paniced and fired Shotty and hired (UGH) Norv Turner to replace him, SAD end to a team that looked capable of winning the Super Bowl.

Dallas - New HC will have to deal with aging offense, TO and a huge question mark at QB. Can Romo continue to be solid or is he a one year wonder???

New York Giants - Should have fired HC whose style of play doesn't suit Eli. He lost the team and with the personnel loses, another rebuilding year.

kmartin575
05-31-2007, 11:51 AM
there was this story on NFL.com a while back (before the draft) that showed that 400+ carries usually results in the back breaking down. I just can't find it right now, help anyone?

Anyways I think the titans are in trouble this year... Giants are in bad shape with their losses at RB and LT... And I'm not sure the Seahawks are in much better shape either, but that's just me speculating.

It's not like there have been 20 different runningbacks who have broken down after 400+ carries. There are only a few who even have that many carries.

Who cares what the other runningbacks did. That doesn't mean Larry Johnson is going to breakdown.

What about a runningback who has about 350 or 360 carries in a season and then that team makes the playoffs. If they were to play 3 or 4 playoff games you could add another 80 or 90 carries to that runningback. That would be well over 400 carries. Nobody is saying those guys are going to breakdown.

400 is just a number and that's it. There is no reason to think LJ is going to breakdown.

JK17
05-31-2007, 11:53 AM
It's not like there have been 20 different runningbacks who have broken down after 400+ carries. There are only a few who even have that many carries.

Who cares what the other runningbacks did. That doesn't mean Larry Johnson is going to breakdown.

What about a runningback who has about 350 or 360 carries in a season and then that team makes the playoffs. If they were to play 3 or 4 playoff games you could add another 80 or 90 carries to that runningback. That would be well over 400 carries. Nobody is saying those guys are going to breakdown.

400 is just a number and that's it. There is no reason to think LJ is going to breakdown.


I'm not personally saying he will, this year, but combined with his bruising running style and large amount of carries, its very wishful thinking to assume he'll be the same guy in two or three years, which would have him breaking down earlier then most backs.

bored of education
05-31-2007, 01:07 PM
A healthy Michael Bennet and drafting Kolby Smith from Louisville could take about 100 carries from LJ keeping him fresher. On KC's website, they also mentioned the leaps and bound he has made receving out of the backfield, running wideout hands drills etc. I think he is under rated out of the backfield, he had 41 receptions for over 400 yards.

Ewing
05-31-2007, 01:08 PM
The Titans thanks to that moron Reinfeildt not knowing a thing about drafting players.

bearsfan_51
05-31-2007, 02:25 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Thank you.

As for the Eagles, I should note that they are currently my NFC pick in the Superbowl so I don't think they are falling that hard. However, I think that it is only fair (and logical) to judge a team this year compared to where they were at this point in the offseason last year, so as to not take injuries into account (part of the reason why RickyBobby's argument about injuries doesn't fly with me). Every single team in the league experiences injuries, and it doesn't make sense to compare a team that has experienced injuries to one that has yet to even have contact yet.

So, with that being said, there are a couple of reasons why I think the Eagles are a little down from where they were last year. I don't think the QB situation is nearly as settled as it was last year. A.J Feeley may have won in Philly previously but he's not a very good #2 no matter what the system. Donovan is becomming a slight distraction, and while I don't take injuries into account, the wear on his body is hard to ignore.

I think the idea that Kevin Curtis will adequately replace Donte Stallworth is incorrect in my eyes. Stallworth is infinately more talented and fits the style of McNabb better than Curtis does.

I think Takeo Spikes is done.

And in general I was completely underwhelmed with their offseason in adequately adding talent. You've got to keep in mind that every team "improves" in the offseason on paper. There are very few teams that lose more talent than they gain as it sits. So you have to take a composite picture of both what they've lost vis-a-vis what they've gained but what they've gained in general. In both cases I'm just not that impressed. I fully expect the Eagles to compete next year, but top to bottom I don't have as good of a feeling about them as I did last year.

Space Ghost
05-31-2007, 02:32 PM
My Bills certainly look worse on paper, but the offense is immediately better without the offensive linemen we picked up because Marshawn Lynch isn't a shitstain. Then you throw in Dockery who if he keeps from flinching before the snap will be very good and well... he was **** last year for the Raiders, but hopefully Langston Walker proves worthy of at least his 81 Madden rating...

I'd say the Chiefs looks much worse. LJ just rushed the ball more times than anyone before. Will Shields is gone. The quarterback situation is ******. Tony is a year older. They lost Jared Allen for 4 weeks. Ty Law and Pat Surtain are both a year older. They definitely won't make the playoffs this year.

I think the Titans looks worse with their running back, receiver and corner situations. They are going to have a tough year and Vice Young better pull out some key victories by himself again.

The Bucs defense is older, they added some rookies, but that won't help right away. Their offense won't win them games, so you could assume they are worse too.

draftguru151
05-31-2007, 02:45 PM
Here's my list:

Miami - No QB, No Saban = 1st pick in the draft.

Our QB situation this year is better than last year (especially if we get Green) and Saban wasn't that amazing of a coach. We brought Capers back he is a better defensive coach than Saban and we brought in Cameron so we actually have a real offensive coordinator now. I agree Miami will be bad, but we didn't regress from QB position and losing Saban isn't a negative.

draftguru151
05-31-2007, 02:47 PM
It's not like there have been 20 different runningbacks who have broken down after 400+ carries. There are only a few who even have that many carries.

Who cares what the other runningbacks did. That doesn't mean Larry Johnson is going to breakdown.

What about a runningback who has about 350 or 360 carries in a season and then that team makes the playoffs. If they were to play 3 or 4 playoff games you could add another 80 or 90 carries to that runningback. That would be well over 400 carries. Nobody is saying those guys are going to breakdown.

400 is just a number and that's it. There is no reason to think LJ is going to breakdown.

But when all but one (Dickerson) pretty much bombed the year after the 400 carry season it certainly doesn't look promising, especially with the OL in the way it is.

Neo
05-31-2007, 02:56 PM
. A.J Feeley may have won in Philly previously but he's not a very good #2 no matter what the system..

Except he has "previouisly won in philly".

In what way shape or form can you say that AJ is not a very good backup in philly. Let me know what backups are good and which ones are not good.

GiantRutgersFan
05-31-2007, 02:59 PM
None of the Giants RBs are close to the receiver that Tiki was though. Eli looked shaky enough with that safety valve in place last season, he's going to need to take a huge step forward to keep the Giants from moving backward.



Tiki didnt make that many catches last year and certainly wasnt Eli's safety valve....

He didnt even have a TD catch last year and his longest reception was for 25 yards. and he only had 2 catches all year for over 20 yards.

the more consistent power running game should help Eli imo.

M.O.T.H.
05-31-2007, 03:03 PM
Tiki caught 58 passes last year...

Anyway, Obviously Tiki isnt going to have a high average... he was Eli's safety valve... w/e Eli was in trouble, he would dump it off to Tiki.

GiantRutgersFan
05-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Tiki caught 58 passes last year...

Anyway, Obviously Tiki isnt going to have a high average... he was Eli's safety valve... w/e Eli was in trouble, he would dump it off to Tiki.

look up some other running backs.

Gore, Tomlinson, Westbrook, Jones-Drew, Johnson, etc, etc had better years receiving last year.

Tiki is a very good reciever, but he just wasnt utilized that much last year and it didnt lead to many big plays or anything like that.


Its not gonna be a big problem at all imo. And I actually watched all the games....

EdReedUnstoppable
05-31-2007, 03:18 PM
Baltimore Ravens every move we made for the most part was a downgrade.

McGahee is a downgrade from Jamal, Jarrett Johnson is the biggest of downgrades from AD, And our only upgrade is a rookie who hasnt proven anything yet.

bsaza2358
05-31-2007, 03:18 PM
If I were coaching the Giants, I would be using Shockey as the safety valve for Eli. He is next biggest mismatch on the field after Burress, but I think he has more of an impact because Shockey is too quick for LB's and too big for DB's.

bsaza2358
05-31-2007, 03:20 PM
Baltimore Ravens every move we made for the most part was a downgrade.

McGahee is a downgrade from Jamal, Jarrett Johnson is the biggest of downgrades from AD, And our only upgrade is a rookie who hasnt proven anything yet.

I wouldn't classify McGahee as a downgrade from Jamal Lewis. Willis is younger, faster, has more potential, and is a better receiver out of the backfield than Lewis. While he's not going to run over LB's 30 times a game, he is a more explosive playmaker.

I cannot argue with you that losing Thomas is going to be tough for your defense, but the overall unit remains strong. If they can get Jarrett Johnson working well within the system and limiting his mistakes, you might not miss Adelius that much.

GiantRutgersFan
05-31-2007, 03:26 PM
If I were coaching the Giants, I would be using Shockey as the safety valve for Eli. He is next biggest mismatch on the field after Burress, but I think he has more of an impact because Shockey is too quick for LB's and too big for DB's.


yep. didnt happen though


Toomer was Eli's Safety valve, evidenced by the before and after numbers for Eli.


Before Toomer's injury, Eli had close to a 90 QB rating. after that it went way down.

bsaza2358
05-31-2007, 03:30 PM
Well, when players get injured, it is up to the coaches and the players to adjust. I put blame on the offensive coaching staff for not making the changes and on Eli for not working with his other weapons to make things happen better.

EdReedUnstoppable
05-31-2007, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't classify McGahee as a downgrade from Jamal Lewis. Willis is younger, faster, has more potential, and is a better receiver out of the backfield than Lewis. While he's not going to run over LB's 30 times a game, he is a more explosive playmaker.

I cannot argue with you that losing Thomas is going to be tough for your defense, but the overall unit remains strong. If they can get Jarrett Johnson working well within the system and limiting his mistakes, you might not miss Adelius that much.


Well Im a pessimistic person so I can't think that way, but hopefully your right.

GiantRutgersFan
05-31-2007, 03:34 PM
Well, when players get injured, it is up to the coaches and the players to adjust. I put blame on the offensive coaching staff for not making the changes and on Eli for not working with his other weapons to make things happen better.


of course, but then again when you got Tim Carter out there as a starter, you got some issues lol

Severe Punishment
05-31-2007, 03:37 PM
Worse off than last year ??? The Giants stand out as do the Titans.
However I can't figure out why the Vikings haven't been mentioned yet.

They gave up or gave away their top 3 WR's from last year as well as their best pass catching TE. They overpay to bring in Wade and soemthing called Shiancoe to replace them..then dump the only starting Qb on the roster that has more than 5 wins in his career.
Let their MLB go ...so they could move back their WLB (who had been excelling there) who'd failed miserably there just 2 years ago.
They let go their starting nickel back (Smoot) and now their top CB (Winfield) is threatening to hold out.

They failed to get any help to their O-Line (especially the right side) and
still haven't gotten a better option at O.C. (head play caller) than the same turd who did nothing there last year.

I'm guessing if this team doesn't somehow make the playoffs Mr. Childress'
head coaching stint may be over.

Bills2083
05-31-2007, 08:23 PM
I don't know why people think that the Bills are worse off than last year
- London Fletcher does not fit our Cover-2 system. He made too many tackles downfield, and was a liability in pass coverage
- Willis McGahee clearly didn't want to be here, and he didn't always give 100%
- Takeo Spikes might not recover from his Achilles Tendon injury
- Nate Clements signed for $80 million, even though he did not play like that here. Also, you don't need great corners in the Cover-2.

EdReedUnstoppable
06-01-2007, 10:39 AM
I don't know why people think that the Bills are worse off than last year
- London Fletcher does not fit our Cover-2 system. He made too many tackles downfield, and was a liability in pass coverage
- Willis McGahee clearly didn't want to be here, and he didn't always give 100%
- Takeo Spikes might not recover from his Achilles Tendon injury
- Nate Clements signed for $80 million, even though he did not play like that here. Also, you don't need great corners in the Cover-2.


And you got Marshawn Lynch you lucky bass turds!

NY+Giants=NYG
06-01-2007, 11:09 AM
Based on what exactly?

An aggressive defensive minded coach, coming from the Jim Johson coaching tree who will replace the dope Tim Lewis. Firing our OC Huffy, and promoting Gilbride. When Amani Toomer went down we had no other wr step up because Moss was hurt, and Carter was allergic to the ball. So we drafted Steve Smith, and from what I heard Moss is 100%. So two new guys to help our offense. Tiki retired, and so we have been smart in developing Brandon Jacobs, who will be our back, and share some carries with Droughns.

I don't think we will be superbowl bound anytime soon, but I disagree 100% that we will be worse off.

CrackerJack465
06-01-2007, 01:31 PM
I dont understand while people think the Giants are so much worse off.

Tiki was the only big loss, but its time for Eli to step up, and Brandon will be fine.

The LaVar/Emmons cuts were not big deal. Neither did anything last year.

And Luke was hurt all last year anyway.

What did they lose that was so bad?

People dont realize how many injuries the Giants had. Both pro bowl DE's, 2 LB's, 2 CB's, 1 safety, LT, RT, C, 3 WR's, TE, a third DE.

miketomczak
06-01-2007, 01:43 PM
i don't think the steelers are switching to 4-3 this season, maybe in the future, but i don't think that's the plan for '07. If Ben is back to form they'll do well, if not then they'll have another average year. If he plays like he can they can win it again, but i wouldn't be surprised if he's just mediocre. i hope not...

Vikes99ej
06-01-2007, 01:53 PM
I can't wait to see what kind of Cover 2 the Chiefs run. I thought the Vikings were a joke of a Cover 2.

ks_perfection
06-01-2007, 10:22 PM
I dont understand while people think the Giants are so much worse off.

Tiki was the only big loss, but its time for Eli to step up, and Brandon will be fine.

The LaVar/Emmons cuts were not big deal. Neither did anything last year.

And Luke was hurt all last year anyway.

What did they lose that was so bad?

People dont realize how many injuries the Giants had. Both pro bowl DE's, 2 LB's, 2 CB's, 1 safety, LT, RT, C, 3 WR's, TE, a third DE.

Barber was there MVP last season and got them into the playoffs. They have the same head coach, they lost Luke who was good, they didn't lose anyone else that was big but they didn't bring anyone big in either. As for there injuries they aren't revlevant to whether they improved there team or not.

Sniper
06-01-2007, 11:19 PM
I'll admit i'm a bit worried about our left side, but there have been rumors of us trading for Schaffer from Cleveland. Not much of an upgrade, but at least we'll get to keep Deihl at LG, a position he plays very well, and have a true LT. If we don't make that move, i'll be a bit worried. Guy Whimper has been splitting time with Deihl on the first team at LT. He is very young, very athletic but still a bit raw. Probably not much of a downgrade over Petitgout.

As for RB, i'm not really worried one bit. Brandon Jacobs at 6'4" 260 pounds with 4.4 speed will be a nightmare for defenses as a starter. Rueben Droughns, his backup, will help him with his blocking and running style. Our #3 RB will be Ahmad Bradshaw, who is being called the steal of the draft. He absolutely amazed everyone with his speed, and cutback ability so far. I know it's early, but we have plenty to be optimistic about at the RB position.

If size and measurables were everything Chris Henry would have run for more than 3.3 ypc at U of A. I love Jacobs' size, he's also got good not great speed, but to say you aren't worried after losing a borderline HOF back is ridiculous

Sniper
06-01-2007, 11:21 PM
of course, but then again when you got Tim Carter out there as a starter, you got some issues lol

Philly's won division titles with FredEx and Todd Pinkston as their 1 and 2 receivers. It's not impossible

LSUALUM99
06-01-2007, 11:51 PM
Philly's won division titles with FredEx and Todd Pinkston as their 1 and 2 receivers. It's not impossible


But they also had Donovan instead of Eli as a QB.

The problem with the Giants is Eli. Without teams fearing Tiki, Eli will suffer again this year.

Eli Manning is now, and will be, a 75-80 passer rating QB who suffers from inaccuracy (i.e. below 60% completion) and less than a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. That's Eli.

Sniper
06-02-2007, 12:00 AM
But they also had Donovan instead of Eli as a QB.

The problem with the Giants is Eli. Without teams fearing Tiki, Eli will suffer again this year.

Eli Manning is now, and will be, a 75-80 passer rating QB who suffers from inaccuracy (i.e. below 60% completion) and less than a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. That's Eli.

Well the way some Giants fans on here speak of him you'd think Jacobs is going to unseat LT as the best RB in the game, so you never know ;)

Severe Punishment
06-02-2007, 12:24 AM
But they also had Donovan instead of Eli as a QB.

The problem with the Giants is Eli. Without teams fearing Tiki, Eli will suffer again this year.

Eli Manning is now, and will be, a 75-80 passer rating QB who suffers from inaccuracy (i.e. below 60% completion) and less than a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. That's Eli.
He's been in the league what 2 years ? and I believe he's help put the Giants in the playoffs both years....so, give the guy a break.
Seriously, how many years did it take for his brother to make a bowl ?
Give him some time.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-02-2007, 10:29 AM
But they also had Donovan instead of Eli as a QB.

The problem with the Giants is Eli. Without teams fearing Tiki, Eli will suffer again this year.

Eli Manning is now, and will be, a 75-80 passer rating QB who suffers from inaccuracy (i.e. below 60% completion) and less than a 2:1 TD to INT ratio. That's Eli.

Why is a qb not allowed to progress at all? Take a look at some of the other great qbs that came into the league and played their first two full seasons. Their numbers blow! Plus 2/3 playoff appearances, alot of throwing attempts, even with a pro bowl RB, more Tds then Ints, two years in a row, and lots of yards, for his TWO FULL seasons, is pretty damn good. I find it comical how people expect some sick numebers right off the bat. Not only that we had a tool of an offensive coordinator, who got fired towards the end of the season with games to go. So he accomplished all that with him.

Addict
06-02-2007, 11:06 AM
Well Im a pessimistic person so I can't think that way, but hopefully your right.

Optimits are nothing but poorly informed pessimists.

Smooth Criminal
06-02-2007, 02:29 PM
I can't see anyway you can make the Steelers sound better coming into this season than they were last year. We will have a new coach, our best lineman is going to holdout, the loss of Joey Porter, and no big additions in the offseason.

The only things that look better are our QB, WR, RB, and P. Ben is healthy, Holmes will be the starter, Duce isn't on the roster and Gardocki was cut.

Sniper
06-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Why is a qb not allowed to progress at all? Take a look at some of the other great qbs that came into the league and played their first two full seasons. Their numbers blow! Plus 2/3 playoff appearances, alot of throwing attempts, even with a pro bowl RB, more Tds then Ints, two years in a row, and lots of yards, for his TWO FULL seasons, is pretty damn good. I find it comical how people expect some sick numebers right off the bat. Not only that we had a tool of an offensive coordinator, who got fired towards the end of the season with games to go. So he accomplished all that with him.

K easy on those two playoff appearances. He's still 0/2, and they've gotten there on the strength of Tiki Barber. And sometimes he looks like he's legitimately good, then he goes ahead and screws it up by making a dumb throw. When analysts are saying you're supposed to be better than your HOF-to-be brother, I expect numbers right away. Considering he came into a much better situation than his brother, yes, I do expect a lot early.

NY+Giants=NYG
06-03-2007, 09:15 AM
K easy on those two playoff appearances. He's still 0/2, and they've gotten there on the strength of Tiki Barber. And sometimes he looks like he's legitimately good, then he goes ahead and screws it up by making a dumb throw. When analysts are saying you're supposed to be better than your HOF-to-be brother, I expect numbers right away. Considering he came into a much better situation than his brother, yes, I do expect a lot early.

Yeah o/2, in his first two spots.. Sometimes qbs can't even make the playoffs in their first two full seasons. Actually while Tiki was good for us, we still threw the ball ranking up there in attempts in the NFL. SO it def. was balanced from that standpoint.

Analysts, lol, I don't really care what they say, good or bad actually. Never was one to take another's opinion to heart, unless I personally did my hw on the player. I would actually take a die hard fans opinion, who sleeps and breathes his team's advice over the analysts. But that's just me.

Came into a much better situation? Are you sure about that? You know we were 4-12? Also, our oline was garbage, and Tiki was a fumbler then. It was Coughlin who fixed it up and made him the good player that he was. So I disagree about that one.

But I do agree with you that he flashes good things, and makes dumb throws that I agree with. But this whole thing that he is doing bad things, and stuff like that is the thing I find inaccurate. Yeah sometimes I get annoyed at what he does, but overall I am happy with his first two full seasons, and I find that there is alot of room for improvement.