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Matthew Stafford, Qb Georgia

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  • #91
    Tim Tebow will have to quicken his release, adapt from his unconventional spread to a pro-style attack(something rarely done), and learn that he can't play-action to himself or just bulldoze opponents to be a good NFL quarterback.

    He has potential, but it is obvious that he is at least somewhat a product of the system.


    Sig by Matthew Jones

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    • #92
      Tebow's release is ridiculously slow in my opinion. The first thing when I saw him play was his release and how long it took. He winds up forever before he delivers the ball. And even when the ball is delivered, its not a rocket like Vick's or Leftwich's.

      Not only does his release concern me, but also the style of offense he runs. Its basically a 1 maybe 2 read system. If those guys arent open, then he just runs. You really have to go through your progressions in the NFL because running is not always an option.

      "He's the leader of the next great class of NFL players." - John Elway on Matt Ryan

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      • #93
        Tebow's wind up before his release is longer than usual and it certainly is one thing working against him. His mechanics are fuzzy too which definitely contribute to his accuracy problems. In the NFL teams want a guy with a quick release who can make all the throws and not have to worry about accuracy problems. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and most great QBs have lightning quick releases and that's a huge reason why they never get sacked even if their protection is not that good.

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        • #94
          I think Tebow would benefit from coming out after this year, because if he stays for his senior year he will get picked apart by scouts. But two of the teams that could potential draft him (bears,49ers) have got burned by players he has ties to. I just hope him and Stafford are both in the same draft class so this debate will continue.

          Stafford isn't fast by no means, but is a better runner then he is given credit for. He had some nice TD runs this year agianst GT and KY. I think his TD runs from over 10 yards out are about the same as tebow. (without looking up the stats)
          Last edited by georgiafan; 05-18-2008, 10:22 PM.

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          • #95
            Either way if Tebow enters the draft in 2009 or 2010, I think he would definitely be best suited to get drafted in the mid to late part of the first round rather than near the top by a team who will want to throw him into the fire immediately like bad teams always do with top pick QBs. He is a guy like Alex Smith who will need a lot of pro coaching before he should see an NFL defense in live action. Not just in terms of learning to pass exclusively from the pocket, but also in terms of refining his techinque and making all the reads and the other things that are way different from his shotgun spread at Florida. He's not gonna be a guy who can just put his team on his back and win a game like Vince Young did at Texas or during his rookie year in Tennessee.

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            • #96
              By alot of pro coaching, I hope you mean like sitting on the bench for at least a year maybe two.

              "He's the leader of the next great class of NFL players." - John Elway on Matt Ryan

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              • #97
                My thoughts on the 4 Quarterbacks mentioned recently in this thread...

                Phillip Rivers - The only knock on Rivers coming out was the awkward delivery. His arm strength is above average. His accuracy is excellent on short to intermediate routes and average on the deep routes. He is a coaches son, gym rat, and played in a Pro-Style offense for 4 Years in College as a starter. Prototypical size. He was way ahead of most QBs that come out due to his footwork and ability to throw with great accuracy on Pro-Style timing routes. He was the unquestioned leader of the NC St. team for 4 years and everyone knew it. He was also the MVP of all 4 bowl games he played in in college going 4-0. People really forget how good he was in college.

                Vince Young - There was so much to like and to dislike about VY coming out. You cannot like the awkward delivery. You cannot like the Spread offense he came out of in College. I also did not like the fact that around 70% of the balls he threw were less than 7 Yards down the field because he looked to check down to soon. When he did go down field he tended to underthrow the deep ball and let his extremely gifted WR's adjust. However, with all that said, there was so much to like about VY coming out. He has great size and athletic ability. He played his best on the biggest stage in College football and led an inferior talented team to a victory. VY had good accuracy on short routes and decent accuracy on the move. He has a really strong arm, yet can throw with touch. But the MAIN reason I thought VY was and is an excellent prospect is that he makes the 2.5 seconds you normally have to throw the ball into almost 5 seconds consistently. He is so big and strong with great feet that he routinely enables WR's to create seperation long after they should be done with routes. He simply has the ability to make positive plays out of what should be negative plays. And finally, I think he just has the "it" factor.

                Tim Tebow - He has a bit of a windup in his delivery. When his footwork breaks down he is not accurate down the field and has trouble throwing a spiral. When he has good footwork he is very accurate but still struggles to throw a spiral at times. (I mention this because he never really plays up north in the wind where the lack of a spiral will affect the ball more). He plays in a gimmicky offense and makes limited reads. He would need a ton of work on his footwork but like VY I think that his athletic ability might enable him to get by with it more than other prospects. He is not as accurate as VY throwing on the run and usually has to almost come to a stop to throw because of the wind up. He might be the strongest QB to ever come out pound for pound and he has needed that strength to run in the SEC. However he will need to find the sidelines like VY or learn how to slide really quickly. He has top leadership ability and by all accounts tremendous character. Right now I would give Tim a 2nd-3rd round grade, but knowing how hard he works and how gifted he is, I would not rule out him impoving enough this year to warrant a 1rst round grade.

                Matthew Stafford - He has the best throwing mechanics by far in this group. Natural, effortless release that is quick and compact. He can easily make all the throws in the NFL. Like any sophomore QB I have ever seen, his footwork is what leads to most of his problems when he is innacurate. That said, the third year as a starter in college seems to be where the greatest improvement is made IMO. Last year Stafford looked a little mechanical, especially the first half of the year. He looked so much better the 2nd half of the season. Stafford has the most prototypical QB make-up of this group by far. He is in an offense that runs from under center and works out of 3-5-7 step drops. He has good footwork for a Junior-to-be but it is not on the same level as Rivers when he came out. Above average athleticism and good size. Should have a huge year with defenses focusing on stopping the Georgia running game. My only question on Stafford is that his leadership and personality have not come out yet IMO. With Rivers, Tebow and VY, you knew who the unquestioned leader of the team was. I don't get the same impression with Stafford, but I could have said the same thing about Eli Manning coming out. I think he projects as the #1 QB barring injury and a top 5 pick if he declares.
                Last edited by jnew76; 05-18-2008, 11:12 PM.

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                • #98
                  All this talk of throwing motions and mechanics and delivery - all good.

                  But let's get two things straight.

                  Some QBs have succeeded in the NFL despite an awkward delivery. It can be corrected or at least compensated.

                  A lot more QBs with prototypical bodies and perfect mechanics with amazing throwing strength have never made it.

                  Stafford has the size, the arm strength, the mechanics and decent athleticism. He's got everything you want in a QB.

                  Except for the numbers.

                  Are stats the only thing you should look at in judging a QB? No, of course not. You gotta watch them play.

                  And the first thing that jumps out at you about Stafford - makes bad decisions. Inconsistent. Inaccurate. Seems to lose focus. Bailed out by strong defense and excellent running game.

                  You're telling me that I should consider him a top five pick, based on the potential that he might work out all these problems eventually? When? How long will it last?

                  Sure, he's got the physical tools. But just like the statistics, it's only one part of the game.

                  (edit)
                  Also, if Stafford wasn't the QB for a SEC power and national title contender, would we even be having this conversation? How much of our views are colored by the team he plays for?

                  What if he was putting up 55% completion, 19/10 TD/int, 56th in passer efficiency at Vanderbilt? Would he be even considered a first rounder? He'd be playing the same SEC defenses, the only difference would be that Vandy is horrible, which would actually excuse such poor play.

                  Mackenzi Adams did complete 55% last season for Vandy. No one's saying he'll be drafted, even.

                  I see the potential in Stafford and think he might make big strides this season. And he better. Because if he doesn't start playing up to that potential now, in UGA's projected championship year, then I'd reckon there's very little chance he'll ever get it in the NFL, no matter how high he gets drafted.
                  Last edited by SKim172; 05-19-2008, 06:00 PM.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by SKim172 View Post
                    All this talk of throwing motions and mechanics and delivery - all good.

                    But let's get two things straight.

                    Some QBs have succeeded in the NFL despite an awkward delivery. It can be corrected or at least compensated.

                    A lot more QBs with prototypical bodies and perfect mechanics with amazing throwing strength have never made it.

                    Stafford has the size, the arm strength, the mechanics and decent athleticism. He's got everything you want in a QB.

                    Except for the numbers.

                    Are stats the only thing you should look at in judging a QB? No, of course not. You gotta watch them play.

                    And the first thing that jumps out at you about Stafford - makes bad decisions. Inconsistent. Inaccurate. Seems to lose focus. Bailed out by strong defense and excellent running game.

                    You're telling me that I should consider him a top five pick, based on the potential that he might work out all these problems eventually? When? How long will it last?

                    Sure, he's got the physical tools. But just like the statistics, it's only one part of the game.

                    (edit)
                    Also, if Stafford wasn't the QB for a SEC power and national title contender, would we even be having this conversation? How much of our views are colored by the team he plays for?

                    What if he was putting up 55% completion, 19/10 TD/int, 56th in passer efficiency at Vanderbilt? Would he be even considered a first rounder? He'd be playing the same SEC defenses, the only difference would be that Vandy is horrible, which would actually excuse such poor play.

                    Mackenzi Adams did complete 55% last season for Vandy. No one's saying he'll be drafted, even.

                    I see the potential in Stafford and think he might make big strides this season. And he better. Because if he doesn't start playing up to that potential now, in UGA's projected championship year, then I'd reckon there's very little chance he'll ever get it in the NFL, no matter how high he gets drafted.
                    I find it interesting that you chose Vanderbilt when I was just thinking about comparing him to Jay Cutler. As for your hypothetical, if he had those numbers at Vanderbilt I think it would be much like Cutler's situation; passed off as a product of the conference and the lack of surrounding talent. You might even make that same argument of Georgia, considering Cutler had Chris Williams and Earl Bennett.

                    One other way to make a comparison would be to look at past quarterbacks. D.J. Shockley was a bit different, but his career completion percentage was 53.7 and his senior completion percentage was 55.2. Before that, David Green had a 58.5 percentage as a senior. So as a collegiate passer, to this point Stafford has shown nothing worthy of meriting his hype. He isn't the athlete Shockley is/was, although he is not that dissimilar to Greene at this point. If Greene was a third rounder and Stafford was a second based on better measurables, I would say that is fair, but to deserving of a first round ground he has to produce.
                    Last edited by Race for the Heisman; 05-19-2008, 06:25 PM.

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                    • People forget that Georgia had some god awful WR's last year and the year before. Numerous drops and incorrect routes also attribute to Stafford's low completion %.

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                      • Originally posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH View Post
                        People forget that Georgia had some god awful WR's last year and the year before. Numerous drops and incorrect routes also attribute to Stafford's low completion %.
                        Yeah this is very true alot of people just look at the low % and don't take this into account. Even when he did complete a pass it wasn't a easy since the DB was right on the WR every play.

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                        • Cutler doesn't sound like a bad comparison for Stafford at all...

                          They've got alot of similarities, but Stafford will have to improve exponentially to end up the QB prospect Cutler was.

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                          • Originally posted by BBIB View Post
                            Matthew Stafford may have more arm strength but to say Tebow can't make NFL throws is absurd.

                            Exactly what route on the football field do you think Tebow can't complete?

                            The notion that his game doesn't translate is never backed up with any legit reason why he can't play there.

                            His delivery doesn't take any longer than someone like a Philip Rivers
                            Originally posted by keylime_5 View Post
                            Ryan's interceptions weren't due to bad accuracy necessarily. He threw so many attempts that of course his INTs were high, but he has very good passing accuracy. Stafford is a different story, he has a great arm but has very inconsistent accuracy.
                            There's your answer....thank you keylime


                            Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain

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                            • Originally posted by georgiafan View Post
                              Yeah this is very true alot of people just look at the low % and don't take this into account. Even when he did complete a pass it wasn't a easy since the DB was right on the WR every play.
                              This is true. Having poor receivers does affect QB play. Same with a poor team.

                              But on the flip side, there have been plenty of quarterbacks with worse receivers on worse teams that have played at the same level or higher than Stafford.

                              And looking to the future, there are plenty of NFL teams that are pretty bad too. Yes, pro offenses are better than college, but pro defenses are better too. What's to say that a QB would improve any? If he can't complete 60% with bad college receivers, will he complete 60% with bad pro receivers?

                              How much of that 55% completion is the fault of the receivers? More importantly, how much of it is the fault of the quarterback? Since we're talking a projected top 5-10 pick, how safe is it to take him that high? With very little exception, all the greats of the NFL were great college players, with great college numbers. It's not often that an underachiever in college becomes a star in the pros.

                              Casey Dick from Arkansas played against the SEC defenses too. Except he didn't benefit from especially great defense or offensive line. His receivers weren't all too special. He had a great trio of running backs, same as Stafford. But, Dick still had 57% completion, 18 TDs, 10 picks, albeit with a lot less yardage. But then again, he played in a predominantly run-based offense that didn't give him a lot of attempts and mostly asked him to make short passes, not long ones.

                              See, it's easy to make excuses. But can we honestly say that we would have no qualms about taking Casey Dick in the first 5 picks and that if he had a better team to play with, he'd be a better quarterback?

                              Hence, my suspicions about Stafford.

                              I do wish him well. He'll need a great season to get my vote. Though I'm sure he'll be drafted high anyways - the scouts have fallen in love with him. He's a prototypical quarterback with all the physical tools, he's from the SEC, he's a starter for a national title candidate and he's very white. Little yapping dogs like me spouting out numbers and statistics will not stop this massive bandwagon.
                              Last edited by SKim172; 05-20-2008, 07:17 PM.

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                              • Originally posted by keylime_5 View Post
                                Tebow can make the throws but has funny mechanics and has a really lengthy delivery which will hurt his draft stock a lot, and the fact that he looks great in the same offense that Alex Smith looked great in doesn't help either considering how "terrific" Smith has been. Tebow's problem is not his arm strength or his leadership, but rather his mechanics and accuracy and the question of whether or not he can be a pocket passer in the NFL taking snaps from under center and only running to make throws or when he has to like Steve Young did.
                                Tebow's throwing motion is fine. The idea that his throwing motion is something fallacious just repeated over and over again until it's blindly accepted as fact.

                                Kind of like the stock of Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford.

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