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The Browns have legitimately passed on every good QB in the NFL

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  • The Browns have legitimately passed on every good QB in the NFL

    Passed on Brees in 2001, every good QB in 2004, Rodgers in 2005, Bridgewater and Carr for Johnny Alcohol in 14, etc. etc., etc.

    This good article motivated to post this btw: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/sto...passed-big-ben

  • #2
    Originally posted by Halsey View Post
    Passed on Brees in 2001, every good QB in 2004, Rodgers in 2005, Bridgewater and Carr for Johnny Alcohol in 14, etc. etc., etc.

    This good article motivated to post this btw: http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/sto...passed-big-ben
    I have read the article too - was interesting, yet a bit disjointed, I think the story could have been better told as a narrative after doing the information gathering.

    That being said, the Browns sure have TRIED to get a QB - but once you invest teams usually give a year (or two or three) to see how the investment (particularly in a first round pick) pays out. Granted, with the new rookie wage scale the "hit" isnt as bad financially - but teams arent likely to draft a QB in round 1 or 2 and then do it all over again the next year. Maybe more teams should? If it is clear the guy doesnt get it or it doesnt translate Im not opposed from cutting bait too soon rather than too late while other valuable assets get older or get off their rookie contracts (and therefore tie up the cap).

    Comment


    • #3
      The Browns have had 2 recent owners who both haven't had a clue on how to build a winning franchise. Their scouting department is a complete and total mess and their management teams have been a disgrace, no doubt due to their owners.
      Just maybe they will luck on to a franchise QB in this year's draft, but I wouldn't count on it.
      And proud of it!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
        The Browns have had 2 recent owners who both haven't had a clue on how to build a winning franchise. Their scouting department is a complete and total mess and their management teams have been a disgrace, no doubt due to their owners.
        Just maybe they will luck on to a franchise QB in this year's draft, but I wouldn't count on it.

        WIth the Browns move yesterday, I think the new management team has got a clue. Accumulating assets is almost universally a good idea. Granted the Browns arent the Titans (who already have their QB) so their situation is a bit more difficult, but if they didnt believe that Goff/Wentz were a legitimate franchise QB then moving down was a no-brainer. The more analytical approach to draft value and positional value should lead to more success for the Browns and I am going to be curious to see how it plays out over the next few years.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ndbigdave View Post


          WIth the Browns move yesterday, I think the new management team has got a clue. Accumulating assets is almost universally a good idea. Granted the Browns arent the Titans (who already have their QB) so their situation is a bit more difficult, but if they didnt believe that Goff/Wentz were a legitimate franchise QB then moving down was a no-brainer. The more analytical approach to draft value and positional value should lead to more success for the Browns and I am going to be curious to see how it plays out over the next few years.

          Funny, the Browns got a boatload of picks and players for Julio Jones WR, Atlanta when they traded back and ended up with zip in return = last place, last place and last place again and again. You said it yourself, the draft is a crapshoot. And what was the team they traded with looking for, h...mmmmm a QB i believe and which team has the far better scouting department and management team, h....mmmm Philadelphia by a mile. So Philly believes Wentz and Goff will be franchise QB's but the Browns don't. Actually, I still like RG111, but they had better be right.
          And proud of it!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post


            Funny, the Browns got a boatload of picks and players for Julio Jones WR, Atlanta when they traded back and ended up with zip in return = last place, last place and last place again and again. You said it yourself, the draft is a crapshoot. And what was the team they traded with looking for, h...mmmmm a QB i believe and which team has the far better scouting department and management team, h....mmmm Philadelphia by a mile. So Philly believes Wentz and Goff will be franchise QB's but the Browns don't. Actually, I still like RG111, but they had better be right.
            You are using anecdotal evidence to prove your point. That being said, not sure this is even the worlds best example.

            The trade - to put in prospective:

            Atlanta moved up to #6
            Browns got #27 (then they moved up to #21), #59 and #124 in 2011, then #22 and a 4th rounder in 2012 (that the Browns later traded to move up for Trent Richardson)

            Did Atlanta get the better of the deal? Absolutely no question. They got the best player in the trade.
            You are right that the Browns screwed up, but would you think it was as bad of a deal had the Browns these picks?

            At #21 (or even if they had stayed at #27 without giving up assets:
            They Picked Phil Taylor
            Could have Taken: Muhammad Wilkerson or Cameron Heyward

            at #59
            They Picked: Greg Little (who actually had more catches his rookie year than Jones)
            Could have taken: Randall Cobb, Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, Jurrell Casey

            at #124
            They Picked: Owen Marecic
            They could have taken: Bilal Powell, Julius Thomas, Richard Sherman

            Would you still think it was stupid had the Browns landed Wilkerson, Houston and Sherman? Or even if they went with the lesser players of Heyward, Murray, Powell or Thomas

            Then they ALSO added these picks for 2012:

            At #22
            They Picked: Brandon Weeden
            They could have taken: David DeCastro, Dont'a Hightower, Harrison Smith, Doug Martin


            I admit that there were plenty of other busts or "lesser" players the Browns could have used the picks on and there is no saying they would "hit" on them all. Ill even take the #124 pick out of the equation, what they could have landed with the other 3 picks would have been astounding had they gotten any of these other guys. Would Jones still be the best player in the deal? Yeah I think so. I will also say that Julio was a freak of nature that year who I had as my #1 WR he is definitely a game breaker who teams that are a piece or two away would trade for - however, it bears mentioning, how has Atlanta done after the trade?

            In 2011 they went 10-6 lost in the Wild Card (after being 13-3 the year before and making the Divisional Round.
            In 2012 they went 13-3 and lost in the NFC Championship Round
            in 2013 they went 4-12
            In 2014 they went 6-10 and Mike Smith was fired.

            Atlanta still has Julio Jones and he is an elite level player, but because of some of the assets they lost their roster remained empty.

            Moral of the story? It didnt work out for the Browns - but it sure could have in a BIG way.
            Did it really work out for Atlanta? Mixed results, Mike Smith would certainly say no.

            At of the day, my philosophy is still sound, but every move and trade needs to be considered for both the long and short term. The draft is a lottery that I want to have as many tickets (and tickets with prime chances for success Rounds 1 through 3, maybe 4 included).

            Also, to address your point about this specific trade - has the Browns' front office sucked in the past? Yup. Majorly. Is there a new management team in place? Yup. So lets see what they do with it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Yah, drafting well is more important than where you draft.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ndbigdave View Post

                You are using anecdotal evidence to prove your point. That being said, not sure this is even the worlds best example.

                The trade - to put in prospective:

                Atlanta moved up to #6
                Browns got #27 (then they moved up to #21), #59 and #124 in 2011, then #22 and a 4th rounder in 2012 (that the Browns later traded to move up for Trent Richardson)

                Did Atlanta get the better of the deal? Absolutely no question. They got the best player in the trade.
                You are right that the Browns screwed up, but would you think it was as bad of a deal had the Browns these picks?

                At #21 (or even if they had stayed at #27 without giving up assets:
                They Picked Phil Taylor
                Could have Taken: Muhammad Wilkerson or Cameron Heyward

                at #59
                They Picked: Greg Little (who actually had more catches his rookie year than Jones)
                Could have taken: Randall Cobb, Justin Houston, DeMarco Murray, Jurrell Casey

                at #124
                They Picked: Owen Marecic
                They could have taken: Bilal Powell, Julius Thomas, Richard Sherman

                Would you still think it was stupid had the Browns landed Wilkerson, Houston and Sherman? Or even if they went with the lesser players of Heyward, Murray, Powell or Thomas

                Then they ALSO added these picks for 2012:

                At #22
                They Picked: Brandon Weeden
                They could have taken: David DeCastro, Dont'a Hightower, Harrison Smith, Doug Martin


                I admit that there were plenty of other busts or "lesser" players the Browns could have used the picks on and there is no saying they would "hit" on them all. Ill even take the #124 pick out of the equation, what they could have landed with the other 3 picks would have been astounding had they gotten any of these other guys. Would Jones still be the best player in the deal? Yeah I think so. I will also say that Julio was a freak of nature that year who I had as my #1 WR he is definitely a game breaker who teams that are a piece or two away would trade for - however, it bears mentioning, how has Atlanta done after the trade?

                In 2011 they went 10-6 lost in the Wild Card (after being 13-3 the year before and making the Divisional Round.
                In 2012 they went 13-3 and lost in the NFC Championship Round
                in 2013 they went 4-12
                In 2014 they went 6-10 and Mike Smith was fired.

                Atlanta still has Julio Jones and he is an elite level player, but because of some of the assets they lost their roster remained empty.

                Moral of the story? It didnt work out for the Browns - but it sure could have in a BIG way.
                Did it really work out for Atlanta? Mixed results, Mike Smith would certainly say no.

                At of the day, my philosophy is still sound, but every move and trade needs to be considered for both the long and short term. The draft is a lottery that I want to have as many tickets (and tickets with prime chances for success Rounds 1 through 3, maybe 4 included).

                Also, to address your point about this specific trade - has the Browns' front office sucked in the past? Yup. Majorly. Is there a new management team in place? Yup. So lets see what they do with it.

                I'm a Brown's fan and I absolutely hated the trade when they made it and it just goes to show that acquiring assets can lead to zero if our GM is rotten as an appraiser of talent. It always amazes me how many flops can be traced to rotten GM's. I hope the Mariota pick showed your GM to be solid. I loved Mariota and got a lot of flack for defending him before he was drafted.
                And proud of it!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post


                  I'm a Brown's fan and I absolutely hated the trade when they made it and it just goes to show that acquiring assets can lead to zero if our GM is rotten as an appraiser of talent. It always amazes me how many flops can be traced to rotten GM's. I hope the Mariota pick showed your GM to be solid. I loved Mariota and got a lot of flack for defending him before he was drafted.
                  I feel for you as a Browns fan. I am actually a 49ers fan (miscast while living in Michigan). This whole discussion of the trade and some different philosophies on the draft really interests me. There arent many true "rules" to the draft, though there are strategies that seem to make an awful lot of sense in light of the available evidence (anecdotal or otherwise). One such strategy is accumulating assets - which I endorse.

                  There are times and places to move up, for truly transcendent players or talent, or when you have a glaring hole on your roster and a player is ripe to satisfy it - then moving up and giving up assets makes sense - its just important to know the long term implications of such moves.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ndbigdave View Post

                    I feel for you as a Browns fan. I am actually a 49ers fan (miscast while living in Michigan). This whole discussion of the trade and some different philosophies on the draft really interests me. There arent many true "rules" to the draft, though there are strategies that seem to make an awful lot of sense in light of the available evidence (anecdotal or otherwise). One such strategy is accumulating assets - which I endorse.

                    There are times and places to move up, for truly transcendent players or talent, or when you have a glaring hole on your roster and a player is ripe to satisfy it - then moving up and giving up assets makes sense - its just important to know the long term implications of such moves.

                    I have no problem in my team acquiring assets if it is done in a sensible way, but if I was just outside the stud area, I would always be willing to trade up for one. Picks are wonderful and having a lot of them certainly helps you draft successfully, but even Jimmy Johnson, who believed in the process, understood that not all your picks will be successful and he kept most of his higher picks, because he also appreciated a shot at getting a stud if possible.

                    The Brown's are gambling that RG111 will be very successful, if he isn't, they could wait another 10 years before they are in a position to draft a quality QB again. That scares the h.ll out of me and I'm a RG111 fan. Go figure..

                    Actually, I'm a fan of 3 teams. My first love was the Browns, because growing up in Toronto, Browns were the only team shown on our TV's. When Buffalo came into existence, the Browns games were no longer shown , so I added the Bills to my list of teams, but I never abandoned the Browns. 27 years ago I moved close to Detroit and added the Lions to my list.
                    And proud of it!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post


                      I have no problem in my team acquiring assets if it is done in a sensible way, but if I was just outside the stud area, I would always be willing to trade up for one. Picks are wonderful and having a lot of them certainly helps you draft successfully, but even Jimmy Johnson, who believed in the process, understood that not all your picks will be successful and he kept most of his higher picks, because he also appreciated a shot at getting a stud if possible.

                      The Brown's are gambling that RG111 will be very successful, if he isn't, they could wait another 10 years before they are in a position to draft a quality QB again. That scares the h.ll out of me and I'm a RG111 fan. Go figure..

                      Actually, I'm a fan of 3 teams. My first love was the Browns, because growing up in Toronto, Browns were the only team shown on our TV's. When Buffalo came into existence, the Browns games were no longer shown , so I added the Bills to my list of teams, but I never abandoned the Browns. 27 years ago I moved close to Detroit and added the Lions to my list.

                      I think we are in agreement. I may be a bit more leery of trading up than you and I think I have made myself sound like I always want to trade down and would habitually trade down from top 5 to the 20's solely to add a bunch of other picks. Is there a time and place to trade up? Absolutely. If I am convinced that there are 5 truly elite level players/talents and I can move into that top for without losing a ton of assets? Im all ears. Its just that there are so many examples of teams leveraging a ton of draft capital for "1 guy" only to see that "1 guy" bust - or even be successful but because the rest of the roster is filled with only replacement level FAs or 6th/7th round picks the team lacks depth or even talent to really compete.

                      Its about the cost, its about targeting the right players and the of course its about making sure you grab the right player for the right system.

                      I do feel for Browns fans. Truly. When I wrote the earlier message about the Julio Jones trade I absolutely vividly remember throwing my hands up when the Browns took Weeden. The guy sitting on the board that I thought was a no-brainer for them was DeCastro. When the Browns passed and the Steelers took him 2 picks later I just stated "This is why good organizations stay good, and bad organizations stay bad." Its but one example, but it happens a lot to the Browns (and a few other teams through the years as well).

                      As for this Draft and RGIII. Its tough for me to say exactly what I would want as a Brown's fan, but I feel that (at least for the QB spot) the 49ers (my team) and the Browns are in "similar" situations. Both teams are clearly not ready to compete next year and are better off letting young guys develop, their new coaches institute their new system and then see exactly what they have. Both teams have QBs who have shown flashes of brilliance and their physical tools havent evaporated - its about giving them a fair chance to succeed and do what they do best. I honestly want to see Kaepernick in Chip's system (and playing healthy being asked to do more of what he is good at) and I feel about the same for RGIII. The guy has ability, if he is healthy and used appropriately I think he can be successful.

                      For both the Browns and 49ers its a matter of how they view the QBs in this year's draft. Did they think THAT highly of Goff/Wentz to leverage assets to move up when both rosters are so devoid of talent? Granted, not a lot else matters if you are SURE your current QB is garbage and you need a franchise guy - but are we SURE Goff/Wentz are franchise guys? Maybe they are - I personally like Goff's chances and I think he is going to a good situation in LA. Wentz has a chance too mainly because I like the situation he is going to in Philly. Would I feel the same putting these two guys in Cleveland or San Fran? Push comes to shove, Goff is my guy for this draft while respecting what Wentz could be.

                      I suppose I say all of that to say this, take the best available guy - I think both the Browns and 49ers will have a chance to score one of the "stud" level guys from this draft while positioning themselves to make a move for a QB next year.From early indications evaluators seem higher on the 2017 group. (Watson/Kayaa ...no doubt other names emerging) where both teams may ultimately find their next franchise QB. I am ok with that, Id rather not rush it, force a guy into a bad situation only to be bad for another set of years. (See: Browns)

                      For the Browns, depending on how the draft shakes out and the assets they have for next year - they could grab their next franchise LT in Staley at #8. Then be able to move Thomas for other assets (while clearing cap room) so then their next QB can come in with the key o-line position in place. What would also prove helpful would be to get some weapons to ease a young QB in - so a new WR, TE would be a good place to look. With how next year's draft could shake out, Browns could seriously look at Watson at #1 (though the 49ers are in a great place to land that #1 pick next year themselves) then use the other 1st round pick to get someone like Dalvin Cook (though the new analytics team may shy away from an early round RB) the point is they can get their new QB without giving up assets or being forced into taking a guy they may not be sold on.

                      As to the other point you made - which is relevant - when will they be in the position to draft a QB without leveraging a ton of assets like this again? I would say that would as early as next year. If they are already in the top 5, they dont have to give up quite as much to make a move into the top 2 (or 3) to land one of the top QBs next year - by moving down this year they have given themselves some flexibility for future trades should the need arise. Perfect scenario would be to suck again - while getting some nice young pieces this year - cheering against the Eagles and having two top 10 picks next year to add your franchise QB and another stud level asset.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ndbigdave View Post


                        I think we are in agreement. I may be a bit more leery of trading up than you and I think I have made myself sound like I always want to trade down and would habitually trade down from top 5 to the 20's solely to add a bunch of other picks. Is there a time and place to trade up? Absolutely. If I am convinced that there are 5 truly elite level players/talents and I can move into that top for without losing a ton of assets? Im all ears. Its just that there are so many examples of teams leveraging a ton of draft capital for "1 guy" only to see that "1 guy" bust - or even be successful but because the rest of the roster is filled with only replacement level FAs or 6th/7th round picks the team lacks depth or even talent to really compete.

                        Its about the cost, its about targeting the right players and the of course its about making sure you grab the right player for the right system.

                        I do feel for Browns fans. Truly. When I wrote the earlier message about the Julio Jones trade I absolutely vividly remember throwing my hands up when the Browns took Weeden. The guy sitting on the board that I thought was a no-brainer for them was DeCastro. When the Browns passed and the Steelers took him 2 picks later I just stated "This is why good organizations stay good, and bad organizations stay bad." Its but one example, but it happens a lot to the Browns (and a few other teams through the years as well).

                        As for this Draft and RGIII. Its tough for me to say exactly what I would want as a Brown's fan, but I feel that (at least for the QB spot) the 49ers (my team) and the Browns are in "similar" situations. Both teams are clearly not ready to compete next year and are better off letting young guys develop, their new coaches institute their new system and then see exactly what they have. Both teams have QBs who have shown flashes of brilliance and their physical tools havent evaporated - its about giving them a fair chance to succeed and do what they do best. I honestly want to see Kaepernick in Chip's system (and playing healthy being asked to do more of what he is good at) and I feel about the same for RGIII. The guy has ability, if he is healthy and used appropriately I think he can be successful.

                        For both the Browns and 49ers its a matter of how they view the QBs in this year's draft. Did they think THAT highly of Goff/Wentz to leverage assets to move up when both rosters are so devoid of talent? Granted, not a lot else matters if you are SURE your current QB is garbage and you need a franchise guy - but are we SURE Goff/Wentz are franchise guys? Maybe they are - I personally like Goff's chances and I think he is going to a good situation in LA. Wentz has a chance too mainly because I like the situation he is going to in Philly. Would I feel the same putting these two guys in Cleveland or San Fran? Push comes to shove, Goff is my guy for this draft while respecting what Wentz could be.

                        I suppose I say all of that to say this, take the best available guy - I think both the Browns and 49ers will have a chance to score one of the "stud" level guys from this draft while positioning themselves to make a move for a QB next year.From early indications evaluators seem higher on the 2017 group. (Watson/Kayaa ...no doubt other names emerging) where both teams may ultimately find their next franchise QB. I am ok with that, Id rather not rush it, force a guy into a bad situation only to be bad for another set of years. (See: Browns)

                        For the Browns, depending on how the draft shakes out and the assets they have for next year - they could grab their next franchise LT in Staley at #8. Then be able to move Thomas for other assets (while clearing cap room) so then their next QB can come in with the key o-line position in place. What would also prove helpful would be to get some weapons to ease a young QB in - so a new WR, TE would be a good place to look. With how next year's draft could shake out, Browns could seriously look at Watson at #1 (though the 49ers are in a great place to land that #1 pick next year themselves) then use the other 1st round pick to get someone like Dalvin Cook (though the new analytics team may shy away from an early round RB) the point is they can get their new QB without giving up assets or being forced into taking a guy they may not be sold on.

                        As to the other point you made - which is relevant - when will they be in the position to draft a QB without leveraging a ton of assets like this again? I would say that would as early as next year. If they are already in the top 5, they dont have to give up quite as much to make a move into the top 2 (or 3) to land one of the top QBs next year - by moving down this year they have given themselves some flexibility for future trades should the need arise. Perfect scenario would be to suck again - while getting some nice young pieces this year - cheering against the Eagles and having two top 10 picks next year to add your franchise QB and another stud level asset.
                        First, with the Browns and now with the 49ers, I think we are seeing 2 absolutely incompetent owners who haven't a clue on how to build a solid franchise.And as for predicting they will be in a position next year to accomplish the goal of getting a QB, I have found over and over, that you can never predict where you will end up drafting or what you chances will be next year to solve this problem. No one can guarantee that you will hold the 1st overall pick and if you don't then the competition will always be fierce. You have to strike while the iron is hot or you can wait years to get your hands on a franchise QB.. The Rams and the Eagles clearly understand this principle, but I've seen nothing from the Browns or the 49ers to indicate to me that they understand it. the Browns have been stuck on square one for years and the 49ers as I predicted, seem to be disintegrating before our eyes.
                        And proud of it!!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post

                          First, with the Browns and now with the 49ers, I think we are seeing 2 absolutely incompetent owners who haven't a clue on how to build a solid franchise.And as for predicting they will be in a position next year to accomplish the goal of getting a QB, I have found over and over, that you can never predict where you will end up drafting or what you chances will be next year to solve this problem. No one can guarantee that you will hold the 1st overall pick and if you don't then the competition will always be fierce. You have to strike while the iron is hot or you can wait years to get your hands on a franchise QB.. The Rams and the Eagles clearly understand this principle, but I've seen nothing from the Browns or the 49ers to indicate to me that they understand it. the Browns have been stuck on square one for years and the 49ers as I predicted, seem to be disintegrating before our eyes.


                          You make a few good points. As for the owners, I would agree that recent evidence points to both being idiots. I hold out hope for both and I think the Browns ownership has a great group in their front office now and I believe firmly in their analytical approach.

                          As for predicting the future for picks. I agree. Its tough to draft in 2016 with an eye on 2017 - you never know how these guys are going to develop, who may stay in school and who may get injured - further you just never know where you are going to end up drafting. That being said I dont like the idea of being "forced" into taking a player if I am not truly sold on him - or if there are great trade options made available.

                          In the case of the Browns I cant help but think there is a mix of both. I have no clue if they had a preference for Goff or Wentz, based on the trade and the rumors out there it certainly appears Goff is going #1 which means it came down to the Browns interest in Wentz (or another player) at #2. The Browns got a load of assets to move down 6 picks which tells me two things: 1 - Their scouting and analytics did not score Wentz as a franchise QB (or he had too many red flags) and 2 - the bounty they scored in the trade was too good to pass up. I cant argue with the move (in fact I endorse it wholeheartedly) take a look at what you have with RGIII dont get "forced" into Wentz if you arent sold, plus your roster is so devoid of talent you must start to accumulate assets for the next few drafts.

                          For the 49ers its almost the inverse. The 49ers would have had to be totally sold on either Goff or Wentz as being their guy to move up, they would have needed to know either one had a great shot to be a true difference maker and franchise QB in order to part with the assets necessary to move up. As the 49ers didnt give the assets up they must not have felt either guy was was worth it - and I agree. I much rather would go into the year with Kaepernick in Chip's system (or get the best deal we can for him to gain assets and more cap space) and just head into next season knowing this is a longer term rebuild and we arent going to blow all of our assets to get a QB and then not be able to build up the rest of the roster. Looking at the 49ers DVOA from last year, the roster as constructed, the division we play in and our overall schedule we are a lock for a top 5 pick. In a draft that appears to have at least 2 or 3 quality QB options Id rather wait a year and then throw a deal together if I must to get up to #1 or #2 next year if entirely necessary (though I expect the Browns and 49ers to be neck and neck for the top pick next year anyways).

                          I appreciate "striking when the iron is hot" but I suppose one would have to know the iron is hot to do the striking. I for one dont see Goff or Wentz as being transcendent players, and certainly not worth gutting this year's and next year's drafts to obtain. (I say that while saying I like Goff a lot and would have been thrilled to get him at #7 without having to lose any assets).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, I guess we will know in a few years whether the Rams and Eagles got it right or the Browns or the 49ers. I'd put my money on the first 2, but that is just me. I'll tell you this, if RG111 flops and Wentz/Goff succeeds, that management team in Cleveland, for sure, won't be around any longer. After all, "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush"
                            And proud of it!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
                              Well, I guess we will know in a few years whether the Rams and Eagles got it right or the Browns or the 49ers. I'd put my money on the first 2, but that is just me. I'll tell you this, if RG111 flops and Wentz/Goff succeeds, that management team in Cleveland, for sure, won't be around any longer. After all, "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush"

                              The big thing with all of the draft trades or looking back when teams "miss" is just what might have happened had these guys gone to different situations. The article about Big Ben is a great example - what would have happened had he gone into the **** show of the Browns, does he still come out looking like a superstar without much talent around him? With the internal issues with the coaching staffs? Thats really the one missing element of scouting and building a team - getting guys who fit the right system and having some continuity in the front office and head coaches/systems.

                              Even a guy like Belichick bombs out with the Browns, but then he is given a chance somewhere else and some time to build his team in his system (and granted fell into Tom Brady) but there was success. There are other coaches who bombed in one place but did well in others, or certain organizations who seem to consistently be competitive (best example being the Steelers) they dont cut and run from coaches too quickly and dont make knee-jerk reactions to down years. Because there is some consistency and continuity they can start to build a roster and team with a certain philosophy in mind and without having to make "splash picks" to drive people into the stadium or to make themselves relevant.

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