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Suh Vs. McCoy

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  • Suh Vs. McCoy

    We have heard lots of people ranking these two as the top two players in this years draft. Recently, Mcshay put McCoy ahead of Suh in his board, which everyone has Suh as there top player. If your the Spags and the Rams, who do you make first overall? I personally think it's McCoy, who will be Spags choice over Suh. He is more like the D lineman he prefers in his D.

    Sig by Bone Krusher

  • #2
    When Suh was at Nebraska he wasn't asked to rush the passer. He got those sacks penetrating the lineman.. Imagine if he was asked to rush the passer.

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    • #3
      McCoy is a great prospect who showed he can really make a huge impact inside, but Suh was dominant this year. He was Nebraska football this year and carried his team, the knee injuries have raised some concern but if you are picking a DT it would really be hard to take anyone over Suh. Again, no knock on McCoy, he is a stud too. As of now Suh is the top guy.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by MiWolves View Post
        When Suh was at Nebraska he wasn't asked to rush the passer. He got those sacks penetrating the lineman.. Imagine if he was asked to rush the passer.
        I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Suh was mostly turned loose in that defense. If you're pretending that he was asked to fill gaps and stay in one lane, that is patently false. I give Bo Pelini full credit for realizing that his defense would be far better once he just asked Suh to flow to the ball. I think Suh's role in that Nebraska offense was actually largely that of a Tampa 2 DT, where no matter whether he lined up right over a guard or wedged in between the guard and center, he wasn't really asked to do more than locate the ball and make plays.

        If you're insinuating that somehow Suh wasn't asked to rush the passer and if he had his game would be more like McCoy's, I don't agree. I think they have distinctly different ways of getting past college lineman (college being the operative word there).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MiWolves View Post
          When Suh was at Nebraska he wasn't asked to rush the passer. He got those sacks penetrating the lineman.. Imagine if he was asked to rush the passer.
          Suh, is an incredible talent, and a pleasure to watch. I love seeing him play, on Saturdays, and will enjoy him on Sundays as well. I just believe that Spags, will take McCoy, based on the style of D lineman he had in Philly and in NY.

          Sig by Bone Krusher

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          • #6
            Paranoidmoonduck, former Washington Redskins D coordinator Greg Blache and current Nebraska HC Bo Pelini have their DTs play a read and react scheme, they simply aren't allowed to barrel upfield while attempting to play the run.
            Because of the limitations this scheme puts on a penetrating DT, when Albert Haynesworth signed with the Skins, he specifically told Blache that 'read and react' wasn't his style of play and unless the scheme adapted to him, he wouldn't be effective.
            It's clear from watching Suh's game tapes from last season, he was required to diagnose the play first while committing to being in a position to stop the run, then pursue to the football. Very rarely did Suh go full bore into the backfield, not because he couldn't, but because the scheme he played in didn't allow him to.

            If Suh is drafted by a team that says we don't really care how scheme disciplined you are, just defeat the man in front of you and track the shortest distance to the QB, I think Suh's ability to be purely disruptive increases exponentially.

            Think how dominant Suh was last season by making plays AFTER beating a double team or standing up a guard or tackle, then pursuing to the football.

            To say that Suh can't penetrate I think takes for granted how he was coached to play the DT position by Nebraska by Pelini.

            Like I've said before, if either of these guys goes in top 3 in whatever order, I won't complain because I still expect both of them to develop into top 10 players at their position, but I believe it's incorrect to assume that Suh can't penetrate off the snap like an UT.

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            • #7
              Speaking from what I saw of Suh last year, I'd say that he definitely wasn't asked to sit at the LOS very often. While he was asked to chase the ball, if he was strictly called on to read and react, he'd normally drive into the backfield a little both to get his blocker off balance and have more room to move laterally. Moreover, he was definitely given the option of making pre-snap reads and then charging out the play as he saw fit. That was a huge factor in a lot of his stops behind the line in the running game.

              My only point is that Suh wasn't really asked to play the 1-gap in a traditional way for the Huskers, as opposed to what LSU asked Glenn Dorsey to do (for example).

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
                I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Suh was mostly turned loose in that defense. If you're pretending that he was asked to fill gaps and stay in one lane, that is patently false. I give Bo Pelini full credit for realizing that his defense would be far better once he just asked Suh to flow to the ball. I think Suh's role in that Nebraska offense was actually largely that of a Tampa 2 DT, where no matter whether he lined up right over a guard or wedged in between the guard and center, he wasn't really asked to do more than locate the ball and make plays.

                If you're insinuating that somehow Suh wasn't asked to rush the passer and if he had his game would be more like McCoy's, I don't agree. I think they have distinctly different ways of getting past college lineman (college being the operative word there).
                You clearly didn't watch enough Husker football this past year, because you're 100% incorrect in this assertion, and I really don't know why you'd make such a claim. Despite his stats, Suh was never "turned loose," as you say. Did you watch the Virginia Tech game?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
                  Speaking from what I saw of Suh last year, I'd say that he definitely wasn't asked to sit at the LOS very often.
                  You're out of your element in this case.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJx17nVZs7g

                  Watch Suh on these two plays. Does that look like a player who is told to just get after the ball? On both plays, had he pinned his ears back instead of hesitating, the result clearly would have been different. If you'd seen the whole thing, you'd realize this was by design to prevent Taylor from escaping the pocket, and it worked for all but those two plays. Suh sat on the line and forced him to throw the ball, which was largely ineffective. FUNBUNCHER is correct and you are not.

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                  • #10
                    The only game where I've seen him rush the passer was against Texas and he had like 4.5 sacks.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MiWolves View Post
                      The only game where I've seen him rush the passer was against Texas and he had like 4.5 sacks.
                      So how would you compare and contrast the pass-rushing of Gerald McCoy and Suh? Is Suh the better pass-rusher? Does McCoy have more flaws in his game?

                      big props to BoneKrusher for the sig & avatar
                      - For daily NFL draft coverage:
                      www.twitter.com/ryanlownes

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                      • #12
                        For me it's Suh to the Rams and here's why. I think he's best suited and will be more of a force as a 3-4 DE (think Richard Seymour). The Rams can play Adam Carriker at the other DE and Chris Long as a rush OLB.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Babylon View Post
                          For me it's Suh to the Rams and here's why. I think he's best suited and will be more of a force as a 3-4 DE (think Richard Seymour). The Rams can play Adam Carriker at the other DE and Chris Long as a rush OLB.
                          The Rams are moving to the 3-4? Right now it would appear that Gerald McCoy is hands down the better fit in Spags' scheme. He really isn't very far behind Suh, and though Ndamukong is at the top of my board the margin is as slim as can be. A year before Suh was the most dominant defensive force in the Big XII as a Senior, McCoy was as a Sophomore (RS.). McCoy has more experience lining up at 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, 3-4 NT, and his natural 4-3 UT.

                          I'm in the process of writing a big article on the first pick, and it'll feature scouting reports on the two. I did a lot of double checking, a lot of re-watching, and the gap is so small on the field that it's nearly non-existent. Different players though, and I can't help but to think even if Suh is a slightly better player, McCoy is the superior fit for the St. Louis Rams on defense. Of course, you have to consider the business side and the name that Ndamukong Suh brings.

                          big props to BoneKrusher for the sig & avatar
                          - For daily NFL draft coverage:
                          www.twitter.com/ryanlownes

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ThePudge View Post
                            The Rams are moving to the 3-4? Right now it would appear that Gerald McCoy is hands down the better fit in Spags' scheme. He really isn't very far behind Suh, and though Ndamukong is at the top of my board the margin is as slim as can be. A year before Suh was the most dominant defensive force in the Big XII as a Senior, McCoy was as a Sophomore (RS.). McCoy has more experience lining up at 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, 3-4 NT, and his natural 4-3 UT.

                            I'm in the process of writing a big article on the first pick, and it'll feature scouting reports on the two. I did a lot of double checking, a lot of re-watching, and the gap is so small on the field that it's nearly non-existent. Different players though, and I can't help but to think even if Suh is a slightly better player, McCoy is the superior fit for the St. Louis Rams on defense. Of course, you have to consider the business side and the name that Ndamukong Suh brings.
                            I would suggest they move to a 3-4. Suh i think is a natural at that DE spot, Carriker would hopefully find a home on the other side like an Aaron Smith in Pittsburgh and they need to free up Chris Long to maximize his potential. They havent called to get my take but i'm sure that will happen soon.:)

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                            • #15
                              No, the Rams aren't moving to the 3-4. Adam Carriker might not even make the 2010 team; they're not going to completely change defensive schemes for his sake.

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