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Measuring Heart

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  • Measuring Heart

    We all know that some guys are guys who have more heart. It can often make a big difference.
    But unlike a 40-yard, or vertical jump, you can't measure heart. Or can you?

    Steve Smith, Carolina, has a ton of heart.
    Some guys (Aaron Kampman & Clay Matthews) have high motors.

    How would you rank/measure your top ten prospects in terms of heart, or motors? We hear scouts and reporters talk about it. Take a stab and tell us your top guys.

  • #2

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    • #3
      its kindof hard to think of guys that clearly stand out, but Sean Weatherspoon is my man when it comes to heart

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      • #4
        The problem with "heart" or "motor" is that it's not just intangible, it's undefinable. That makes it completely subjective, so you get problems. Quarterback is yelling at his offensive line on the sidelines. Is he a) showing leadership, pumping up the team, encouraging their play, pointing out mistakes, making them better? Or is he b) being stuck-up and arrogant, obnoxious, blaming everybody else, and being a general ****? Because the observable results look pretty much the same.

        Is a player a leader, bringing together the team, or does he just have a need to be popular, to be surrounded by others? When a lineman drives his man to the dirt after the whistle, is that "motor" or is he playing dirty? If he's cursing out opponents, is he "fiery" or "jack***"? When a tailback brags about how many yards he's going to put up, is he "competitive" or "diva"? When a receiver's arguing with his coaches, is that because "he's got so much passion for the game" or "he lacks respect for authority"?

        Last preseason, Brett Favre, split out wide in the wildcat, threw a low illegal blindside block on a DB. The player was hurt, had to be carried off the field. The announcers were talking about how that showed Favre's love for the game and his toughness, even in his old age, that he was willing to go and do that. The foul was just because he was so inexperienced with blocking. Online bloggers, on the other hand, said no one's so inexperienced that he thinks throwing his body at the knees of an unsuspecting player won't cause injury, and that Favre was just being a dirtbag.

        So intangibles are important, yes. But it's a tricky business to depend on tape and media reports to judge them. Generally, I try to avoid factoring in "heart" when assessing a player.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by J-Mike88 View Post
          We all know that some guys are guys who have more heart. It can often make a big difference.
          But unlike a 40-yard, or vertical jump, you can't measure heart. Or can you?

          Steve Smith, Carolina, has a ton of heart.
          Some guys (Aaron Kampman & Clay Matthews) have high motors.

          How would you rank/measure your top ten prospects in terms of heart, or motors? We hear scouts and reporters talk about it. Take a stab and tell us your top guys.
          I think when you look at having a good motor at positions like DE or DT, you look at that player's tackle numbers.

          Guys like Suh, Houston, and Price have 60+ tackles which tells you they track the ball well and run towards the ball. Guys with lesser motors might stand out with tackles for loss and sacks but their tackle numbers are much less.

          Take Vernon Gholston of a few years back... he had something like 17 sacks, 20+ TFL and only 37 total tackles which meant if he wasn't making the play behind the LOS then he didn't make it at all. Big red flag for me.

          On the same note, Trevor Laws of a couple years back had close to or over 100 tackles in his senior season but he also hasn't done much in the NFL (presumably from a lack of talent, not motor which ran very high in college).

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          • #6
            Something that can qualify as a measure of heart... in college did that player play special teams? and if so were they a standout? Guys that lead their teams in special teams tackles are generally long in the heart department but they aren't always starter quality. If you can find a starter that plays well on special teams (Steve Smith was a dynamite return man in college) then you probably have a player with heart.

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            • #7
              Noone should come before Tebow. He played a game in high school on a broken leg.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by zachsaints52 View Post
                Noone should come before Tebow. He played a game in high school on a broken leg.
                I remember that game, and as I recall he wasn't wearing shoes...and it was snowing! lol

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by brasho View Post
                  I remember that game, and as I recall he wasn't wearing shoes...and it was snowing! lol
                  Umm its documented that he did....

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                  • #10
                    Theres a thin line between heart and stupid.

                    Sig by Bone Krusher

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by zachsaints52 View Post
                      Umm its documented that he did....
                      I think you missed my point. There are people that think the jury's still out on Tim Tebow and there are those that are already buying tickets to canton for St. Tebow's 2021 Hall-of-Fame induction ceremony.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by brasho View Post
                        I think you missed my point. There are people that think the jury's still out on Tim Tebow and there are those that are already buying tickets to canton for St. Tebow's 2021 Hall-of-Fame induction ceremony.
                        Then I guess you missed my original point. It said heart, and playing a game like football on a broken leg no matter the position shows alot of heart, and I don't think anyone can deny Tebows.

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                        • #13
                          Teams have a lot better perspective with this then fans will ever have. They get to conduct interviews with the players, talk to coaches, and talk with people around the program they came from. This is probably the cause of some unexpected drops on draft day, information that the public is unaware of but teams have red flags on.

                          It's the same thing with injuries, we don't have access to the full medical checks that the teams do. It's hard for fans to predict falls like Ali Highsmith and Erin Henderson.

                          Sig by BoneKrusher

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SKim172 View Post
                            The problem with "heart" or "motor" is that it's not just intangible, it's undefinable. That makes it completely subjective, so you get problems. Quarterback is yelling at his offensive line on the sidelines. Is he a) showing leadership, pumping up the team, encouraging their play, pointing out mistakes, making them better? Or is he b) being stuck-up and arrogant, obnoxious, blaming everybody else, and being a general ****? Because the observable results look pretty much the same.

                            Is a player a leader, bringing together the team, or does he just have a need to be popular, to be surrounded by others? When a lineman drives his man to the dirt after the whistle, is that "motor" or is he playing dirty? If he's cursing out opponents, is he "fiery" or "jack***"? When a tailback brags about how many yards he's going to put up, is he "competitive" or "diva"? When a receiver's arguing with his coaches, is that because "he's got so much passion for the game" or "he lacks respect for authority"?

                            Last preseason, Brett Favre, split out wide in the wildcat, threw a low illegal blindside block on a DB. The player was hurt, had to be carried off the field. The announcers were talking about how that showed Favre's love for the game and his toughness, even in his old age, that he was willing to go and do that. The foul was just because he was so inexperienced with blocking. Online bloggers, on the other hand, said no one's so inexperienced that he thinks throwing his body at the knees of an unsuspecting player won't cause injury, and that Favre was just being a dirtbag.

                            So intangibles are important, yes. But it's a tricky business to depend on tape and media reports to judge them. Generally, I try to avoid factoring in "heart" when assessing a player.
                            Great post. My answer is that it depends on the player.

                            Dan Marino for example. My opinion is bias being a Dolphin fan, but to me he is the greatest competitor of all time. Talent aside, he was one of the greatest leaders of all time, and knew how to get the most out of his WR's and O-line.

                            Dan yelled at his guys and coaches in the huddle and on the sideline, and blamed everyone else for his mistakes. That doesn't work for 99% of the guys in the NFL, especially not QB's, but it worked for him. He wasn't being a jerk, just a great competitor.

                            So it depends on who you are.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PhinsRock View Post
                              Dan Marino for example. My opinion is bias being a Dolphin fan, but to me he is the greatest competitor of all time. Talent aside, he was one of the greatest leaders of all time, and knew how to get the most out of his WR's and O-line.
                              Dan yelled at his guys and coaches in the huddle and on the sideline, and blamed everyone else for his mistakes. That doesn't work for 99% of the guys in the NFL, especially not QB's, but it worked for him. He wasn't being a jerk, just a great competitor.
                              Yeah, I loved Marino and I loved that about him, not being afraid to chew out the idiots whiffing on blocks or the WR's running the wrong route or not making an effort to catch a ball in traffic.
                              But non-Fins fans thought Marino was just an A-hole for yelling and bitching.
                              I like QBs and Point guards who take charge.

                              Jamon Meredith doesn't rate high in the heart department, and that's a big reason why he was mocked to the Packers a lot last year in round 2, and we ultimately got him in round 6. Then cut him.
                              Apparently he's pretty lazy. His punishment? Buffalo. Could have been worse: The Black Hole.

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