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  • edgrenade
    started a topic Colin Kaepernick: Your Thoughts

    Colin Kaepernick: Your Thoughts

    There seems to be some varying opinions on him.

    NFL Network guys kinda liked him, Scott and Shane didn't...

    Does he have any sort of future? He is probably worth the boom/bust in the 4th

    Discuss:

  • San Diego Chicken
    replied
    Originally posted by Clarkw267 View Post
    Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.
    Yeah, I like the guy a lot as a competitor and a leader, one of my favorite college players in the last few years. But I see Colin as an athlete playing QB instead of a QB who happens to be athletic. He'd be an exciting backup, but he needs three to four years at least if he were to develop into a capable starter.

    Leave a comment:


  • D-Unit
    replied
    Do you guys think new threads about the guy will make people like him more?

    He's overrated right now. For one, this QB class is terrible and people are trying to find someone...anyone to hype if they even show a glimpse of being good. Secondly, CK is good at showing glimpses... but if you want a good legit QB, then he's not your man. He's not a drop back passer. Doesn't see the field as good as you want him to, is not that accurate, and simply doesn't have a good sense of the QB position.

    If you want cocky, mobile, strong armed and tall... he's your man. If you want a back up, he can be groomed. If you want a franchise NFL QB, look away... look faaaaaaar away.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clarkw267
    replied
    Whoa.. there are some huge Kaepernick slappies here. Guy is a major project. His release is nothing like Philip Rivers. Rivers still gets the ball out in a hurry, while Kaepernick takes some time. He'll have to go through a mechanical change in his throwing motion. I suspect he'll go in the 3rd or later.

    Leave a comment:


  • SF Dolphin Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by PhinsRock View Post
    Kaepernick's release is a little slow, and he needs to learn how to become a 5 step, drop back passer in the NFL. But he does have all the physical tools, and the thing I love about him is that when he gets outside the pocket to avoid the rush, he's still looking to throw (Aaron Rodgers-like).

    I like the arm strength, accuracy, poise, pocket presence and athleticism. There are concerns, but I like him a lot more today than I did a week ago.

    He's the number 2 QB on my board, and there really isn't anybody outside of him and Gabbert that I'd spend more than a 4th round pick on.
    What about Newton? If he dropped to 15 I'd think Miami would be all over him. I do think the Dolphins are looking at either Gabbert, Newton or Kaepernick.

    Leave a comment:


  • brasho
    replied
    Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
    C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

    I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.
    Considering Scott Wright and a few others have come on here and said that he is "definitely not going to be a QB in the NFL" while others have said that anybody would be crazy to pick him before round 4 and that "he's still not going to be a good QB"... I would say that stating that he'll go between picks 25 and 57 is a pretty good guess...but my best guesses would be between #25-43.

    Leave a comment:


  • brasho
    replied
    Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
    C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

    I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.
    I say he could go at #25 to Seahawks (who knows how desperate they are for a future signal caller?), Bills at #34 (depending on if they pick a QB in round 1), Cards at #38 (depending on if they pick a QB in round 1), Titans at #39 (blah blah, round 1), Skins at #41 blah blah), Vikings at #43 (blah), 49ers at #45 (though this is one place I don't think he'll fit), Raiders at #48 (he certainly has enough tattoos to impress Al Davis), Jags at #49 (depending if they pick a QB in round 1, which I doubt with DelRio likely gone after this season), or Seahawks at #57. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Dolphins somehow get back into round 2 to get him. Although in an effort to locate the Dolphins 2nd round draft pick I just stumbled onto this site that had the Dolphins taking CK at #15 overall (http://newnfldraft.com/archives/2221).

    Leave a comment:


  • 87Canes
    replied
    Originally posted by brasho View Post
    I've stated numerous times in this post where I thought he would go, top 64 with an emphasis that he goes around where Cunningham went (#37 overall) with a +/- of 10-20 spots. I'm looking at anywhere from pick #25 overall to #57.
    C'mooooon man!!! That's like me betting on Tom Brady throwing a TD pass vs the Broncos secondary. Too general - Huge room for someone to say, "Yep I told ya"

    I'll call my pick right now. Buffalo Bills draft pick in rd 3. Chan Gailey always makes decent NFL QBs out of guys who weren't necessarily your prototypical NFL QB. Thigpen and Fitz in recent future...not to mention Reggie Ball was an ok QB at GT.

    Leave a comment:


  • brasho
    replied
    Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
    So you still have yet to say if CK will be a 1st round draft pick or not? Which is the only reason for why I even started to comment on this thread.

    I'm calling 3rd round and LATER but if he's lucky due to a WEAK QB class, he may go late 2nd round, unfortunately.

    I compliment you for doing your research on numbers though. I merely have the time to compile actual stats nor do I think stats tell the whole story or even a significant part of a prospects ability. I do judge a book by its cover regarding scouting (currently) because it's not my job yet. Once I can focus 1000% of my time on it, stats will be incorporated into an evaluation. "It's part of the process"
    I've stated numerous times in this post where I thought he would go, top 64 with an emphasis that he goes around where Cunningham went (#37 overall) with a +/- of 10-20 spots. I'm looking at anywhere from pick #25 overall to #57.

    Leave a comment:


  • 87Canes
    replied
    Originally posted by brasho View Post
    Every QB I listed average 15 yards or more rushing per game, most, even Jon Kitna had well over 4.5 ypc... that is called scrambling ability, especially after you factor out the rushing attempts that were kneel downs.

    So you honestly don't think Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, and others (Kitna had the stats to prove mobiity, VY and Garrard have the mobility to justify putting them on the field) aren't mobile? That was one of the major topics of discussion with some of the playoff games, which was how mobile some of these QBs are.... and you don't think they are.

    As for VInce Young, the guy's lifetime record as a starter is 30-17, which puts him pretty high up on the list for win% for active NFL QBs... and before you go thinking that it was the great team around him, the TItans just fired their coach for a reason (they went 6-10 this season, VY went 4-4) and it was long overdue. Six playoff appearances in 16 seasons don't exactly scream "SUCCESS!". And considering the Titans were 4-12, and 5-11 the two seasons immediately preceding VY, it is safe to assume that the 8-8 and 10-6 seasons after he came aboard might have had a little something to do with him, it is safe to bet that VY's biggest problems aren't on the field, but off.

    You think CK is VY part 2, good for you, but there really aren't that many similarities. Though CK has very similar size to VY when he came out of college (6044 225 compared to 6045 229 lbs), CK has a far stronger arm, and much better straightline speed, which comes in far more handy than VY's ability to punish tacklers like he did in college.

    Like I've said a million times before, CK is a much closer match physically and background-wise to former UNLV and Eagles and Vikings star, Randall Cunningham. Especially considering that CK has been known as a very hardworker while VY was known as a dummy (5 on Wonderlic) and a hothead (public tantrums after not winning Heisman in 2006). Considering how unintelligent and immature VY has shown he is as a pro, it is not surprising to see how he turned out.

    As for your assumption that CK ran EVERY time he got pressured in the pocket, you couldn't be more wrong and living in your own little revisionist history. He was pressured threee different times only to step up and deliver strikes. The first time he stepped up underneath a rush from his right and threw a strike that bounced off Mike McNeil's hands for an INT, the other time he threw a strike to a WR in the intermediate zone to his right, and the last time he stepped up and ran parrallel to the LOS to have Hunter drop his pass at the left sideline. He ran 4 times, at least 2 of which were designed runs. I can't remember one his runs, but the 7 yarder was the one he ran from 3rd and goal from the 15 and it was a far better play than trying to force the ball into coverage. Your asserting that he took off every time he was pressured tells me that you either didn't watch any of the game, you just remember what you WANT to remember, or you have no idea of what you're talking about. Personally, I think it is a bit of all 3.

    Ok, let's get some else clear... when you state that somebody will be "picked in the 2nd rounder or higher"... what you're saying is they will get picked in round 3 or higher... meaning round 1 or 2. I'm not sure if you knew that. I think what you mean is "3rd round or LATER". I think McElroy and Dalton will be drafted. They will be solid clipboard guys with whomever drafts them. They are both very smart, prepare well, and are the kind of guys you look for to be backups for a long time. Nobody will likely look at either of them and think that he is the answer to their problems at QB but they should be drafted.

    I think you underestimate how much the NFL is a QB's league. Jake Locker still goes in round 1 no matter how much hype he has. He has a gun, can run like hell, has good enough size, and only has 2 seasons in a pro style offense. He needs developing for sure, but he has the raw tools a coach would love to work with. Same with CK. No team that has seen the early success of Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez is going to pass on a possible special QB (remember all the questions about Roethlisberger's and Flacco's level of competition, Ryan's arm strength, Freeman's accuracy and ability to adapt to a pro style offense and accuracy, and Sanchez's starting experience-12 or 13 games?) ALL QBs come into the league with questions. Rivers had a crazy release and questionable feet and arm strength (he also came from the spread), Brees had more questions than most QBs in recent memory (arm strength, size, collegiate offense), it's part of the process.

    As for CK having to adapt to playing in the NFL, consider the fact that the majority of the pass coming from the QBs in the playoffs, came from shotgun, it would make sense that the jump to playing under OC is not as big of a deal as you might think. Here are the numbers for passes thrown from shotgun for playoff QBs: Peyton Manning attempted 76% of his passes out of the gun this year. Aaron Rodgers 65%. Tom Brady 64%. Kevin Kolb 64%. Ben Roethlisberger 62%. Michael Vick 61%. Matt Ryan 58%. Drew Brees 57%. Matt Hasselbeck 56%. Matt Cassel 52%. Joe Flacco 46%. Mark Sanchez 44%.Jay Cutler 15%. Maybe the biggest adjustment needed to be made here isn't with CK's adjustment to the NFL, but to the way you view him as a prospect.
    So you still have yet to say if CK will be a 1st round draft pick or not? Which is the only reason for why I even started to comment on this thread.

    I'm calling 3rd round and LATER but if he's lucky due to a WEAK QB class, he may go late 2nd round, unfortunately.

    I compliment you for doing your research on numbers though. I merely have the time to compile actual stats nor do I think stats tell the whole story or even a significant part of a prospects ability. I do judge a book by its cover regarding scouting (currently) because it's not my job yet. Once I can focus 1000% of my time on it, stats will be incorporated into an evaluation. "It's part of the process"

    Leave a comment:


  • brasho
    replied
    Originally posted by 87Canes View Post
    Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

    The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

    I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.
    I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.
    Every QB I listed average 15 yards or more rushing per game, most, even Jon Kitna had well over 4.5 ypc... that is called scrambling ability, especially after you factor out the rushing attempts that were kneel downs.

    So you honestly don't think Aaron Rodgers, Michael Vick, Matt Cassell, Ben Roethlisberger, Romo, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, and others (Kitna had the stats to prove mobiity, VY and Garrard have the mobility to justify putting them on the field) aren't mobile? That was one of the major topics of discussion with some of the playoff games, which was how mobile some of these QBs are.... and you don't think they are.

    As for VInce Young, the guy's lifetime record as a starter is 30-17, which puts him pretty high up on the list for win% for active NFL QBs... and before you go thinking that it was the great team around him, the TItans just fired their coach for a reason (they went 6-10 this season, VY went 4-4) and it was long overdue. Six playoff appearances in 16 seasons don't exactly scream "SUCCESS!". And considering the Titans were 4-12, and 5-11 the two seasons immediately preceding VY, it is safe to assume that the 8-8 and 10-6 seasons after he came aboard might have had a little something to do with him, it is safe to bet that VY's biggest problems aren't on the field, but off.

    You think CK is VY part 2, good for you, but there really aren't that many similarities. Though CK has very similar size to VY when he came out of college (6044 225 compared to 6045 229 lbs), CK has a far stronger arm, and much better straightline speed, which comes in far more handy than VY's ability to punish tacklers like he did in college.

    Like I've said a million times before, CK is a much closer match physically and background-wise to former UNLV and Eagles and Vikings star, Randall Cunningham. Especially considering that CK has been known as a very hardworker while VY was known as a dummy (5 on Wonderlic) and a hothead (public tantrums after not winning Heisman in 2006). Considering how unintelligent and immature VY has shown he is as a pro, it is not surprising to see how he turned out.

    As for your assumption that CK ran EVERY time he got pressured in the pocket, you couldn't be more wrong and living in your own little revisionist history. He was pressured threee different times only to step up and deliver strikes. The first time he stepped up underneath a rush from his right and threw a strike that bounced off Mike McNeil's hands for an INT, the other time he threw a strike to a WR in the intermediate zone to his right, and the last time he stepped up and ran parrallel to the LOS to have Hunter drop his pass at the left sideline. He ran 4 times, at least 2 of which were designed runs. I can't remember one his runs, but the 7 yarder was the one he ran from 3rd and goal from the 15 and it was a far better play than trying to force the ball into coverage. Your asserting that he took off every time he was pressured tells me that you either didn't watch any of the game, you just remember what you WANT to remember, or you have no idea of what you're talking about. Personally, I think it is a bit of all 3.

    Ok, let's get some else clear... when you state that somebody will be "picked in the 2nd rounder or higher"... what you're saying is they will get picked in round 3 or higher... meaning round 1 or 2. I'm not sure if you knew that. I think what you mean is "3rd round or LATER". I think McElroy and Dalton will be drafted. They will be solid clipboard guys with whomever drafts them. They are both very smart, prepare well, and are the kind of guys you look for to be backups for a long time. Nobody will likely look at either of them and think that he is the answer to their problems at QB but they should be drafted.

    I think you underestimate how much the NFL is a QB's league. Jake Locker still goes in round 1 no matter how much hype he has. He has a gun, can run like hell, has good enough size, and only has 2 seasons in a pro style offense. He needs developing for sure, but he has the raw tools a coach would love to work with. Same with CK. No team that has seen the early success of Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Josh Freeman, and Mark Sanchez is going to pass on a possible special QB (remember all the questions about Roethlisberger's and Flacco's level of competition, Ryan's arm strength, Freeman's accuracy and ability to adapt to a pro style offense and accuracy, and Sanchez's starting experience-12 or 13 games?) ALL QBs come into the league with questions. Rivers had a crazy release and questionable feet and arm strength (he also came from the spread), Brees had more questions than most QBs in recent memory (arm strength, size, collegiate offense), it's part of the process.

    As for CK having to adapt to playing in the NFL, consider the fact that the majority of the pass coming from the QBs in the playoffs, came from shotgun, it would make sense that the jump to playing under OC is not as big of a deal as you might think. Here are the numbers for passes thrown from shotgun for playoff QBs: Peyton Manning attempted 76% of his passes out of the gun this year. Aaron Rodgers 65%. Tom Brady 64%. Kevin Kolb 64%. Ben Roethlisberger 62%. Michael Vick 61%. Matt Ryan 58%. Drew Brees 57%. Matt Hasselbeck 56%. Matt Cassel 52%. Joe Flacco 46%. Mark Sanchez 44%.Jay Cutler 15%. Maybe the biggest adjustment needed to be made here isn't with CK's adjustment to the NFL, but to the way you view him as a prospect.

    Leave a comment:


  • 87Canes
    replied
    Originally posted by brasho View Post
    You've heard of Josh Freeman, right? He moves his feet with the best of them... and in case you didn't notice, he's still the 2nd youngest QB in the entire league. Matt Casssl has good feet, Tony Romo, I almost want to throw Garrard out there because if it weren't for his mobility he would stink, Fitzpatrick, Jay Cutler, Jon Kitna (ran for 15 yards average a game and 4.7 a carry), Jason Campbell, but just consider this.,.. 5 of the top 10 passers according to rating this season are guys by your definition as mobile. Rodgers, Vick, Roethlisberger, Freeman, and Cassel. Vince Young would be on that list if he had enough attempts... and I think Flacco's mobility is underrated.

    Mobility is a great equalizer for a young QB and CK will be at a great advantage of putting the extra pressure on a defense while he learns the nuances of the game.
    Every QB has to mobile in todays game. You're pretty much manipulating every thing anyone says to fit the point you're trying to get across. All those QBs you mentioned aside from Josh Freeman are technically not real mobile QBs. They're not sitting ducks like Peyton but like I said, it's 2011 and every NFL QB has to be able to move.

    The point is QBs need to be pocket passers. QBs who weren't/aren't pocket passers, Rex Grossman...dude saw the pocket start to collapse and he'd just throw something up and hope it landed to someone on his team.

    I just see CK's learning curve being wayyyyy to steep to become an elite passer in the NFL. As I stated in another thread, he's VY Part 2 and to say VY is a good QB is absurd. Off the field issues and attitude is part of being a successful QB in the NFL. Regarding CK and the Senior Bowl, CK ran every chance he had instead of keeping his eyes downfield for a pass.

    I'm done debating the CK thread - We'll let the draft and the NFL experts conclude this debate in April. My prediction is early 3rd round for CK, Locker will get picked in the 2nd because of his "hype" and all the other Senior Bowl QBs will go in rd 3 or higher with Ponder being the 1st one out of everyone aside from CK and JL. McElroy and Dalton shouldn't be drafted honestly.

    Leave a comment:


  • brasho
    replied
    Originally posted by njx9
    i'm sure you can. think you can tell me why, though?



    are you suggesting he was the only player on that team, or do you want to admit you don't know anything about football in that era?



    yippee? they never lost more than 3 games in the 70s and were sending a good number of players to the nfl through the mid-80s. but props. we should certainly argue about what they've done *since* the guy we're talking about graduated. that would have a lot to do with absolutely nothing.



    1984. national championship. they were *not* a small school. you were simply wrong.
    Ok, with your little point-counterpoint garbage you're pulling, you clearly are doing nothing but attempting to insult me and then fill your post with revisionist history. No, I wasn't around for Roger Staubach's Naval heroics, and that's fine with me, I prefer not to be so old and crusty that every new-fangled thing I see I have to scream out, "That's not the way they did things back in my day!"

    Still, Roger Staubach was the main reason for Navy's high standings during his team... He won a Heisman with them... it wasn't for another 20 years before a player from a military academy even got mentioned as a Heisman candidate (Napoleon McCallum).

    Yes, Grambling and Eddie Robinson were impressive, and so was Doug Williams when he returned to coach for a season (or two, I don't remember), but being a great D1-AA school isn't exactly being a great school in the SEC, is it?

    As for BYU, they were a small school. THey were such a small school in fact that they were locked out of playing in any real bowl games and had to play a terrible Michigan team that came into the game at 6-5 (or whatever it was) and still needed a near miracle at the end from Bosco to win it. That was quite the statement game, beating a barely .500 team by the skin of their teeth. Then that program went big-time, right? Yep, Sean Covey, Michael Young, and a whole host of BYU QB wannabes got hyped out of their minds but Lavelle's crew was to contend for serious status no more. When a school recruits almost totally Mormon athletes, I would say their recruiting is pretty limited and always has been. Not to mention a majority of them go off on a mission when they're 19 and don't lift or play ball for two years.... but yeah, other than that, they're another USC.

    Leave a comment:


  • brasho
    replied
    Originally posted by the natural View Post
    Tebow got crucified (if you'll pardon the expression) for his Senior Bowl performance, which was 8/12 passing with no TDs or picks. Kaepernick somehow get lionized for going 4/9 with no TDs and a pick. Whatever.

    For the people here that get on Josh McDaniels for drafting Tebow, all the fans on the Denver boards are saying that if Josh had played Tim earlier in the season he would still be coaching there. So much for that pov. Tebow started the last 3 games of the season. A handful of other rookies did the same. Tim was easily the best of them, passing and running. Including Bradford.
    CK had 3 drops (one of which was knocked right into the hands of a defender), one throw away , and one pass that was high and out of bounds with a defender up the middle a half second from putting a lick on him. That accounts for all 5 incompletions. He should have been 7/9 with no picks.

    Leave a comment:


  • the natural
    replied
    Tebow got crucified (if you'll pardon the expression) for his Senior Bowl performance, which was 8/12 passing with no TDs or picks. Kaepernick somehow get lionized for going 4/9 with no TDs and a pick. Whatever.

    For the people here that get on Josh McDaniels for drafting Tebow, all the fans on the Denver boards are saying that if Josh had played Tim earlier in the season he would still be coaching there. So much for that pov. Tebow started the last 3 games of the season. A handful of other rookies did the same. Tim was easily the best of them, passing and running. Including Bradford.

    Leave a comment:

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